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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-08-25

---Logopened Sat Aug 25 00:00:20 2018
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10:48<mnuhmnuh>buenos dias. i just stumbled onto https://wiki.debian.org/Welcome/Users which mentions ask.debian.net, which doesn't appear to exist. clues anyone?
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10:49<sakax>hi, quick question, is it important to set TRIMM for ssd drives? if yes, how?
10:49<sakax>reading the wiki it is not fully clear
10:49<itd>mnuhmnuh: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains lists an admin.
10:50<sakax>https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization#Mounting_SSD_filesystems
10:51-!-petris [~quassel@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe25:b576] has joined #debian
10:51-!-petris is "Ryan Petris" on #debian #linode
10:51<sakax>setting "issue_discards" under /etc/lvm/lvm.conf , is this the prefered way to avoid having to set discard for each partition in fstab?
10:54<sakax>and what's the difference with setting "discard" option in /etc/crypttab for dm-crypt?
10:54<sakax>I use lvm and dm-crypt, but a bit clueless
10:54<pipedream>Alpha1: requires signing up for twitter nothnx
10:55<pipedream>errchan sorry
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10:59-!-bollo is "bollo" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
10:59<mnuhmnuh>itd: thanks. so, zack, what's up w ask.debian.net?
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11:58<rednit> /topics
11:58<rednit> /topic
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14:44<cweiske>Hi. I installed task-xfce-desktop and later wanted to remove it (with apt purge --auto-remove task-xfce-desktop) but many xfce* packages kept being installed. Why is that?
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14:54<awal1>cweiske, try something like: aptitude purge `dpkg --get-selections | grep xfce | cut -f 1`
14:54<cweiske>that would probably solve my immediate problem, but I wonder why this happens at all
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14:55<awal1>followed by aptitude -f install
14:55<cweiske>I also tried other desktops (lxde, kde, cinnamon, mate)
14:55<cweiske>and have leftovers there, too
14:55<awal1>or use apt-get instead of aptitude
14:56<cweiske>e.g. I have kwalletmanager and dragonplayer as leftovers from task-kde-desktop
14:56<awal1>normal, task-... are metapackages
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14:58-!-kenoby is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
14:59<awal1>that command should remove bunch of xfce stuff. continue cleaning manually searching stuff via dpkg -l | grep xfce then purge
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14:59-!-bollo is "bollo" on #debian-kde #debian
14:59<awal1>tall hat just a way
15:00<cweiske>does "is a meta package" mean that dependencies of that meta package do not get removed when the meta package itself is removed?
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15:00-!-Yst is "Alex Yst" on #debian-next #debian
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15:09<awal1>a metapkg is a script with metadata and links to other pkgs and it pulls / installs them. usually removing it it keeps it's deps, the pkgs it installed
15:11<cweiske>"apt install task-xfce-desktop" wants to install 152 MB, "apt purge --auto-remove task-xfce-desktop" only remvoes 83 MB
15:11<bremner>cweiske: have you tried "apt autoremove" ?
15:11<cweiske>so *some* dependencies shall be removed, but not all of them. and this puzzles me
15:11<petn-randall>cweiske: If some other package recommends/suggests any of those packages, they won't get removed.
15:12<cweiske>oh
15:12<cweiske>http://p.cweiske.de/583
15:13<cweiske>for the apt output
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15:13<cweiske>is there any way to get to the previous system state after trying out a desktop environment?
15:14<awal1>cweiske, petn, gave you a conclusion
15:15<annadane>Yet Another Paste Site (YAPS)
15:15<cweiske>yes, and I'm thankful for that.
15:15<petn-randall>cweiske: You can see which packages got installed via /var/log/apt/history.log, then just remove them.
15:15<mnuhmnuh>and i won't bother looking at it.
15:16<cweiske>thanks petn-randall
15:17<awal1>cweiske, apt logs, yeah, or use 'script' utility next time
15:19<awal1>the best way to try things is using virtualization
15:19<awal1>try all what you want in a vm before instaling in real hardware
15:20<cweiske>I tried desktop environments to find one that supports my hidpi laptop display properly. doing that in a VM would not have helped at all, since the VM does not pass through EDID info
15:20<awal1>you avoid similar problems
15:21<awal1>right
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15:35<bremner>I haven't used it, but you could make a backup with "apt-clone" before experimenting
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15:49<petn-randall>cweiske: I think that's only cleanly supported in later gnome releases. If you feel brave enough, you could upgrade to testing and use that. Note that testing is more in movement and less mature than stable, so it might contain some bugs.
15:50<cweiske>I actually came from testing (the puri.sm "pureos" flavor) that prevented me to instal the kde desktop at all because of broken deps :)
15:55<petn-randall>cweiske: Ah, you got one of the Purism devices? Nice! I can imagine if you report the issue they'll fix it fairly fast. All the techies there are also Debian Developers.
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15:57<cweiske>ah, good to know. yes, I got me a librem 13
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15:58<cweiske>finally a laptop with coreboot
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16:00<petn-randall>I'm also thinking about coreboot. I've been using Thinkpads for quite a while. Unfortunately, the last laptop from the X series that works without IME is the x220.
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16:05<cweiske>i'm not super happy with it yet. The initial pureos setup was a bit strange because it hang 2 times without feedback.
16:05<cweiske>then the font sizes were all just too small, and the gnome 3 that is shipped with it does not support fractional scaling
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16:06<cweiske>which is required if you also want readable icons (changing font sizes always works)
16:06<cweiske>and then i heard that kde/plasma has better hidpi support and wanted to install it, and it did not work because of broken deps
16:06<cweiske>that was the time when I put a normal debian 9 onto it
16:07<cweiske>the keyboard is also a bit strange. the left alt key, when pressed on the right side only, feels and sounds like completely pressed, but is actually not
16:08<cweiske>which causes problems when alt-tabbing to other applications
16:08<cweiske>also, sometimes keys are missing when writing, although I am sure I pressed them and heard them press
16:08<cweiske>which is probably the same issue as with the alt key
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16:27<mnuhmnuh>cweiske: looks like a very nice box. one year warranty? tell 'em the keyboard's flaky, needs replacing. pretty easy to do. if i wanted a laptop, i'd buy it.
16:28<cweiske>I live in germany and got it shipped from the US, which took quite some time. I probably won't return it for a minor issue and go through the hassle of not having it for 2 months
16:32<cweiske>what would you guys recommend as password manager? I've been using revelation for the last 8 years, but it's very slow to startup if you have many passwords, and does not seem to be developed any further
16:33<annadane>keepass
16:33<petn-randall>cweiske: I use keepass2, it works pretty well for me.
16:34<cweiske>oh. mono as dependency
16:35<mnuhmnuh>my brain/memory + gpg crypted backup.
16:37<petn-randall>mnuhmnuh: No password re-use on *all* services you use?
16:37<petn-randall>*doubt*
16:38<bremner>I use pass
16:39<bremner>it has it's flaws, but I never have to worry about the software disappearing or whatever.
16:39<mnuhmnuh>petn-randall: not a chance.
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16:41<mnuhmnuh>easy passwords on things that don't matter, good ones, non-re-used on those that do.
16:43<mnuhmnuh>upper+lower+digits+punct. non-dictionary.
16:45<mnuhmnuh>keepassx is non-mono
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16:47<mnuhmnuh>so's pass
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16:48<petn-randall>mnuhmnuh: I have 200+ entries in my database. Are you deriving them from some system?
16:48<mnuhmnuh>petn-randall: nonsense words, never seen used elsewhere.
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16:50<mnuhmnuh>mine takes up ca. 160 lines, 2 * 8.5x11
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16:51*mnuhmnuh what is with ach? why's it even bother coming back here?
16:53*petn-randall shrugs.
16:53<petn-randall>mnuhmnuh: I can assure you the opers have a close eye on them.
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16:56<mnuhmnuh>cweiske: just finished a book set in 1700's. took 3 mo. for ships to cross atlantic then. we've only cut that in half? sad.
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21:28<sqrt{not}>There's also the xkcd password method, see https://xkcd.com/936/ and apparently now also: http://correcthorsebatterystaple.net/
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22:43<mnuhmnuh>i've seen a bug twice now, in two apps, in two releases (stretch & buster), mate-terminal and ff-esr: sometimes, command bar disappears and i see desktop graphic instead of "File Edit View ..." bar. going to another desktop and back fixes it.
22:44<mnuhmnuh>i'd report it, but i don't do email anymore. this was using buster's mate, and stretch-backport's mate.
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23:04<mnuhmnuh>pretty trivial bug considering what i see on tracker for xorg. lots of ugly there.
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 26 00:00:22 2018