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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-08-27

---Logopened Mon Aug 27 00:00:23 2018
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00:16<tdungdinh>hello
00:16<tdungdinh>anybody here?
00:17<tdungdinh>offtopic: #debian-offtopic
00:18<tdungdinh>#debian-offtopic
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01:05<freelancepoliceman>Dumb question, but is it usual for a router's IP to need to be included in resolv.conf for DNS to be able to resolve?
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01:08<freelancepoliceman>Nothing I can find seems to indicate that it does, yet across multiple computers, I can't seem to resolve DNS unless I'm using my router's IP.
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01:24<tomg>most likely your gateway is the dns server for your network yes
01:27<freelancepoliceman>There's no way I can override it?
01:29<themill>your local network might not allow you out on :53
01:29<themill>if it does, then sure, configure away
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01:31<freelancepoliceman>To do that, would I just add my desired nameservers to /etc/resolv.conf?
01:38<tomg>yeah
01:38<tomg>do you have access to those nameservers?
01:39<freelancepoliceman>Thanks for the help. It's my router, then -- it's blocking any DNS traffic except to itself.
01:40<freelancepoliceman>I do. I was trying for specific ones, but nothing worked; not even Google's or Cloudflare's. Thanks again for the help
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18:06<sicelo>i have root access to a centos server, and i'm wondering how i could use it to compile kernels for my old thinkpad x40, running Sid. any pointers will be aprreciated. i am sure i can be able afterwards to find my way
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18:08<sarnold>I used to use make-kpkg in the kernel-package package ~fifteen years ago to do something similar. would you wind up cross compiling or is it the same architecture?
18:09<sicelo>cross. the target would be i686 (thinkpad x40)
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18:15<mnuhmnuh>sicelo: your sid on x40 can compile kernels, so too slow? or what?
18:15<sicelo>too slow. takes over 8 hours :p
18:16<mnuhmnuh>aii. just curious.
18:17<sarnold>oww
18:17<sicelo>there should be a way .. i'll research further tomorrow (midnight here). may need some sort of chroot maybe
18:17<mnuhmnuh>your plan should be doable. well worth trying.
18:18<mnuhmnuh>devil's in the details, always.
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18:19<mnuhmnuh>one thing; you don't need root access to compile a kernel. only to install it.
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18:20<sicelo>yes, but if i will need a chroot, then root may come in handy
18:20<sarnold>and a chroot would probably be the fastest way to get there
18:20<sarnold>debootstrap followed by make-kpkg ..
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18:22<mnuhmnuh>it's "make deb-pkg" these days, btw.
18:23<sarnold>mnuhmnuh: that's supplied by the kernel, right?
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18:23<sarnold>is it actually better than make-kpkg supplied by debian?
18:25<mnuhmnuh>sarnold: still working on that ... i built kernels long ago successfully, recently tried again and failed miserably. ought to get back to it and try again, demmit, but ...
18:25<sicelo>i thought it was supplied by debian, and it's good (also makes headers, etc.)
18:25<mnuhmnuh>no, deb-pkg has to be debian.
18:26<mnuhmnuh>believe make-kpkg is obsolete/deprecated.
18:26<itd>dpkg: kernel-handbook
18:26<dpkg>The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/ - packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Debian 7 "Wheezy" - serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source.
18:27<sarnold>itd: woot
18:27<itd>\o/ alioth
18:27<sarnold>ha
18:27<itd>https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/
18:27<mnuhmnuh>sicelo: will you be starting out with stock linux source, or debian source?
18:28<itd>also, maybe: qemu-debootstrap https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/qemu-user-static/qemu-debootstrap.1.en.html
18:28<sicelo>yes that's the page i normall follow. i'll start with debian source
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18:41<mnuhmnuh>sicelo: and sarnold, why would you need chroot to compile a kernel? "make deb-pkg" creates a .deb which you then install on target box.
18:41<sarnold>mnuhmnuh: that's just the easiest way to get all the tools that can build deb packages.
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18:45<tjader>What happened to the wiki?
18:46<mnuhmnuh>tjader: working for me minutes ago.
18:46<tjader>I'm getting 403 forbidden
18:46<tjader>Since yesterday
18:46<annadane>tjader, try #debian-www
18:46<tjader>Thanks
18:46<mnuhmnuh>tjader: prob.'s on your end.
18:47<tjader>Yeah, will try another connection
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19:03<mnuhmnuh>sarnold: "... get all the tools ..." - they want to build on centos, cross-compiled. chroot irrelevant. they have root on centos.
19:04<mnuhmnuh>don't confuse more than already is. :-)
19:06<mnuhmnuh>makws me wonder how they're going to make deb-pkg on centos ...
19:07<mnuhmnuh>ohh, debian vm in centos! :-)
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19:09<mnuhmnuh>as itd suggested. ptheh.
19:11<mnuhmnuh>my bad. ignore.
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20:21<onryo>I am running Debian 9 GNU/Linux stable. That last few months more and more banks and now my bitcoin exchange are not excepting the firefox/iceweasel version in stable.
20:22<onryo>IIRC there was an issue with rust so there is no backport. All the same there was talk about doing "something" about this?
20:22<onryo>any news on this?
20:23<themill>'soon'. Just changing the user agent is probably sufficient though, there's nothing wrong with firefox in stretch
20:23<bremner>will firefox-esr be replaced with rusty-firefox in stretch?
20:24<onryo>that great to hear. Any sort-of-maybe time frame bremner?
20:25<bremner>I was just asking a question.
20:26<onryo>ah did not see the "will" part. I hard a few months back there as talk about this. Messing with headers to spoof browser is kinda hackish imo
20:27<mnuhmnuh>onryo: the net is cool. the web is silly, stupid, slutty, and foolish. nothing hackish about it.
20:27<bremner>so is replacing a huge code base in a stable release. But that's the world we live in
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20:28<onryo>thing is I am not expecting to see a new stable for ... what a year or so? Something needs to be done.
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20:29<mnuhmnuh>onryo: slackware works with upstream directly. want that?
20:30<onryo>uuggg now bitfinex.com - "You are using an old browser. To guarantee the stable behavior of the website you need to use a supported web-browser. Firefox 58 is the minimum supported version of your browser"
20:30<onryo>mnuhmnuh, been using Debian since 95-ish. Not giving up on it now =)
20:30<sarnold>it'd probably be worth letting them know about the ESR versions of firefox..
20:30<themill>bremner: yes, basically as soon as the next CVE for firefox hits
20:31<mnuhmnuh>onryo: me too. still like slackware too. prefer debian.
20:33<tjader>onryo, you could try #debian-mozilla
20:34<tjader>But according to https://mozilla.debian.net/ you're out of luck unless you move to testing
20:34<tjader>You could do a testing chroot
20:34<themill>or install the User-Agent Switcher extension, or grab the tarball from mozilla
20:34<onryo>tjader, normally in the past you would find this in backports. Stupid rust!
20:36<onryo>themill, might just just have to sink to that lvl. Just even need a UA extension. Just a few sec in about:config and its done
20:37<onryo>warning...never drink a beer and chat on irc with one hand. Spelling and get weird =P
20:37<themill>the extension means you revert the mess more easily
20:37<onryo>true
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20:48*mnuhmnuh how does one hit less than ten keys with a beer can/bottle?
20:49<abrotman>pony bottle
20:49<mnuhmnuh>wut?
20:50*mnuhmnuh not to mention, one of the keys you meant to hit.
20:50<bremner>join #cavediving
20:51<mnuhmnuh>research ...
20:55<mnuhmnuh>not on oftc apparently. as for scuba diving into underground caves, i'd prefer to leap out of a perfectly good plane with a holey parachute.
20:56<ais-admin>I bless this parachute.....
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20:57<mnuhmnuh>holey, not holy. glad you didn't drown. :-)
20:58<ais-admin>hehe - couldn't resist
20:58<ais-admin>thanks - everyone lived
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21:07*mnuhmnuh cp /scratch/iso/slackware64-live-mate-current.iso /dev/sdh
21:07<bremner>sarnold: fwiw, upstream firefox-"esr" is at 60 (at least)
21:08<sarnold>oh I hadn't realized debian was behind on this one :/
21:09<themill>there are two ESRs atm -- we're in the overlap window
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21:09<themill>(in a couple of weeks there will not)
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21:12<mnuhmnuh>years ago, someone told me something like "sync ; sync ; sync" is stupid/ignored by fs's these days. true? if so, why'd that take 10 secs to complete after cp to usbkey?
21:15<twb>mnuhmnuh: if you're about to physically remove a USB key, calling sync will not *hurt*
21:15<sarnold>well, cp when writing to a block device, isn't actually going through a filesystem ..
21:15<twb>But it *will* hurt if you have something doing a large amount of coalescable writes, e.g. collectd
21:15<sarnold>.. and I don't think it was ever "stupid" or "ignored" so much as indicative of superstition before rebooting :)
21:16<mnuhmnuh>twb: yeah, and current guis can "eject" via software, so even more protected
21:16<twb>yeah good point, sync applies to mounted filesystems --- I was assuming "cp porn.mkv /media/MyUSBKey" not "cp debian.iso /dev/sdz"
21:17<themill>the first sync does something; if the second sync does anything, you have other problems
21:17<bremner>assuming no concurrent activity
21:18<twb>If you're doing an eject(1) you don't need a sync(1) as well
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21:19<twb>Anyway, syncs should be *avoided* except when you're about to physically unplug a disk. Wherever a sync would be called, it's better to have a UPS
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21:23<ais-admin>USBKeys have no cache so when the cp has finished the data has actually been written. Sync can only guarantee that a drive has accepted the data to be written and not actually written it so it does not help in the case of external HDD's/SSDs either. So when would you use sync?
21:24<sarnold>I'd be surprised if cp syncs its blocks explicitly
21:24<sarnold>I bet it returns before the copy is done
21:24<themill>it does
21:25<ais-admin>ahh interesting
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21:28<mnuhmnuh>ais-admin: aren't you ignoring ... dunno how to ... flushing *whatever* buffers? cache, buffering, kernel ("i'm getting to it, hold your horses, ffs, geez, people!") yada yada.
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21:30<mnuhmnuh>usbkeys may have no cache, but linux has lots of buffering and "getting to it" going on at all times.
21:30<ais-admin>yes I was... my bad
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21:31<mnuhmnuh>no it's not. we're searching for truth here! :-)
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21:31<ais-admin>just seems with linux being so efficient that the 'getting to it' usually seems to happen immediately
21:31<ais-admin>easy to forget that is going on in the background
21:33<ais-admin>my usual method of "wait a sec' after copying anything big to an external device I think might be as effective as using sync?
21:34<sarnold>usually :)
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21:34<sarnold>but when sync returns you know whatever was outstanding at the moment you issued it has hit the disk, waiiting a moment is a little less sure about that :)
21:34<ais-admin>I suspected ;-)
21:35<ais-admin>ok thats true - better
21:35<sarnold>or the disk has lied about it because it has buffers, of course..
21:35<ais-admin>yes external HDDs/SSDs all do
21:35<sarnold>yeah
21:36<ais-admin>hence both sync and 'wait a second' combine to make a good plan
21:36<sarnold>drives with sufficient capacitors to power it through power loss events aren't cheap.. I wonder if I've ever owned any..
21:36<ais-admin>I haven't. ever
21:38<mnuhmnuh>never heard of them existing. maybe nasa's ...
21:38<ais-admin>The bottom of the rack here is a 2700kVa UPS. Its a beast. Keeps 7 systems running.
21:39<ais-admin>and a bunch of peripherals - switches, routers, etc.
21:40<sarnold>some raid controllers come with a battery backup unit, that will hold data in the onboard cache across reboots, powerfailures, etc..
21:41<sarnold>I understand they are quite lucrative since they fail about 13-15 months in and need to be replaced
21:42<ais-admin>I use software raid on all my systems except one that has a MegaRAID controller - it can accept a battery but its not installed. No need.
21:42<mnuhmnuh>i used to own a sun ultra 30. it was louder than the loudest air conditioner i'd ever heard. in a data center, sure, in a small apt., nuts.
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21:43<ais-admin>hehe I had a Microdata Reality Mini - sounded like a 707 taking off
21:43<sarnold>yeah I've got a supermicro in the basement, in a rack. even with the door closed it's annoyingly loud.
21:44<ais-admin>I've got a SuperMicro in my rack right next to me - not that bad for noise
21:44<ais-admin>maybe I'm just used to it
21:44<sarnold>comparitively speaking mine's actually pretty good. but it's still loud enough I don't want it next to me :)
21:45<ais-admin>mines a SuperServer 2028R-C1R4+ - its tolerable
21:49<ais-admin>it runs Stretch and hosts 8 Win7 Workstations under kvm/qemu - its gets a workout
21:54*mnuhmnuh anyone got a debian support q? surprised *a*brotman's not climbing down our throats. :-)
21:55<ais-admin>yeah we should maybe go offtopic
21:56<ais-admin>quittin time for me anyway so off to the pub... See ya later...
21:57<mnuhmnuh>tooduls.
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22:47<mnuhmnuh>!hi
22:47<dpkg>hello, mnuhmnuh
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 28 00:00:25 2018