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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-09-05

---Logopened Wed Sep 05 00:00:36 2018
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00:23<mnuhmnuh>!iptables
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00:23<dpkg>[iptables] The user-space process used to administer iptables kernel parts on top of netfilter. Ask me about <netfilter docs>. For a proper Debian-way of setting up iptables, see http://wiki.debian.org/iptables or ask me about <iptables-restore>. http://netfilter.org/ #netfilter on irc.freenode.net. See also <ferm>, <lartc>, <masq>, <ulogd>.
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00:57<mnuhmnuh>link at 14:26 doesn't work.
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03:27<ezil>Hello, today my system updated libssh-4 to 0.8.1-1~bpo9+1 but uninstalled remmina from stretch-backports. Now I can't install remmina
03:27<ezil>How can I return to the previous libssh or make remmina installable?
03:29<grawity>I wonder why
03:30<ezil>it says "remmina: Depends on: libssh-4 (>= 0.8.0~20170825.94fa1e38) but is not being installed"
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04:16<ezil>Ok, they told me they are fixing it now
04:16-!-el is "elky" on #oftc
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04:16<grawity>it's odd that 0.8.1 doesn't satisfy that dependency, wonder what the fix will be like
04:19<ezil>they're uploading remmina 1.2.31.4 on backports now
04:19<ezil>that supports it
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07:43<cppmonkey>Random question... Any reason isc-dhcp-server wouldn't be populating the dhcpd.leases file?
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08:15<jelly>!8ball cppmonkey
08:15<dpkg>Absolutely.
08:15<jelly>signs point to "no"
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12:46<Cerebral>Hi.
12:47<Cerebral>Is there any chance stretch-backports repo to break apt?
12:47<petn-randall>Cerebral: Break in what sense?
12:47<Cerebral>And by break i mean not finishing upgrade
12:47<petn-randall>stretch-backports is made to complement stretch with newer packages, so every package in there should be able to install cleanly on a stretch system.
12:48<petn-randall>That said, there have been cases in that past where there were broken packages in stretch-backports. Because it's a moving target, the QA is more difficult and sometimes buggy packages slip through.
12:48<petn-randall>Cerebral: What are you installing that doesn't finish?
12:49<Cerebral>dist-upgrading
12:49<Cerebral>Stops in Reading package lists... Done.
12:50<annadane>uh. try changing the mirror i guess
12:50<petn-randall>Cerebral: What command are you running exactly, and what is the complete output you get? → https://paste.debian.net
12:51<Cerebral>sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y
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12:53<Cerebral>petn-randall: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1040852
12:54<petn-randall>Cerebral: I'm pretty sure you didn't run the command above.
12:54<petn-randall>Cerebral: You're missing the 2nd "&".
12:55<Cerebral>Oh yeah
12:55<petn-randall>And it already completed, AFAICS.
12:56<petn-randall>That's why we usually ask for the verbatim copy/paste. I only caught the mistake because I recognized the output of backgrounding a process.
12:56<Cerebral>I see.
12:57<Cerebral>How the hell didn't i notice?
12:57<Cerebral>lol
12:57<petn-randall>:)
12:58<Cerebral>And to ask QubesOS and Debian related questions i go there or here?
12:58<annadane>here, because we're lonely, and desperate to answer questions
12:58<annadane>but no in all seriousness, here is probably fine
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13:00<Cerebral>annadane: I guess cause in the QubesOS in Debian wiki they mention something....
13:01<Cerebral>Anyway i wanna upgrade to Debian Buster right?Do i also need to change the Qubes repo to buster?
13:01<Cerebral>I saw someone using 10 with Qubes stretch repo.
13:01<petn-randall>Cerebral: Why do you want to upgrade to buster? It's not released yet.
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13:02<Cerebral>Yeah i know.JUst to get latest packages and stuff.
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13:03<Cerebral>I wanna try it out.
13:03<petn-randall>!sns
13:03<dpkg>Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
13:03<Cerebral>Shiny New Shit LMFAO
13:04<petn-randall>Cerebral: You don't upgrade to buster to get newer packages. You upgrade to buster because you like your system to break in regular intervals, and to help Debian by reporting and fixing any issues you find.
13:04<Cerebral>That as well.\
13:04<annadane>wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian has a section on how to get newer packages if you *need* them; most don't
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13:12<Cerebral>Anyway do i have to change Qubes repos?
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13:14<annadane>not sure. never used qubes.
13:15<Cerebral>petn-randall: And why is Buster a 'moving target'?
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13:19<petn-randall>!moving target
13:19<dpkg>Sure, testing might be shinier than stable, but are you prepared to be continually updating your system? Things that worked today will break tomorrow. Configuration file formats will change and you'll have to fold your changes in yet again. Testing is a moving target and if you'd rather work *with* your computer than working *on* your computer, you might not want that. See <testing security>.
13:21<Cerebral>!testing security
13:21<dpkg>Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See https://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing
13:21<Cerebral>Ah petn-randall nice.
13:23<Cerebral>petn-randall: Isn't testing like Arch?
13:24<petn-randall>I don't know Arch, but I'd go with "no".
13:24<danopa>no is the correct answer ;)
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13:24<petn-randall>!rolling
13:24<dpkg>Testing is not a rolling release in the strict sense of the word. It is a test platform, currently codenamed <buster>. It is part of the Debian development process and is gradually being built into the next <stable>. Please go to #debian-next on irc.debian.org for support. See <moving target>.
13:25<petn-randall>I assume Arch is a rolling release? Testing is not. ^^^
13:26<Cerebral>Yes.
13:26<annadane>even sid is not
13:27<Cerebral>BTW irssi is not in stretch-backports?
13:27<annadane>debian's main selling point is its stable release, for arch, its main selling point is its once-every-2-years-therefore-well-tested stable release + occasional backports
13:27<petn-randall>,v irssi
13:27<judd>Package: irssi on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.8.15-5; wheezy-security: 0.8.15-5+deb7u6; jessie: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; jessie-security: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; stretch: 1.0.2-1+deb9u3; jessie-backports: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; buster: 1.1.1-1; sid: 1.1.1-1
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13:27<annadane>so i think ultimately it's best to use what is best fit for that purpose
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13:27<petn-randall>Cerebral: irssi is in stretch.
13:27<annadane>errrrr
13:27<annadane>wow, i must be drunk
13:28<danopa>annadane: funny typo
13:28<annadane>debian's main selling point is to be stable. arch's main selling point is to be rolling. there. ignore everything i just said.
13:28<petn-randall>annadane: Just don't drink and root! :)
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13:29<annadane>while yes people do run sid it's not really made for that, though of course it's important some people do use it to file bugs
13:29<Cerebral>annadane: Well some friends that are Arch users say they had like 2 issues in 5 years.
13:30<annadane>the difference is arch has a real community when the breakage occurs
13:30<annadane>Cerebral, it's possible
13:30<petn-randall>It's made to test software before it enters testing and ultimately stable, nothing else.
13:30<annadane>right. it's tempting to think of it as releases, but they're not really
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13:30<Cerebral>petn-randall: Dafuq.sudo apt-cache -t stretch-backports policy irssi shows only stable.
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13:33<petn-randall>Cerebral: You don't need to use root for apt-cache. Also -t is not a valid parameter for apt-cache.
13:33<petn-randall>And yes, I already said it's in stable.
13:35<annadane>anyway. if you want to file bugs, great, use buster, or sid. if you want a usable desktop run stable
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14:58<bremner>I have a machine running testing, that I'd like to install stable on. The catch is that it needs the testing kernel for network support. What's the least painful way to accomplish this? I considered debootstrapping a new root partition. I understand in principle it should be possible to install stable with the testing installer, but I don't know the details.
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15:05<danielh1234>bremner: I'd say the most guided/comfortable way would be a normal install with the stable installer (without network) and then install the testing kernel .deb from disk/memory stick
15:06<bremner>that makes sense. I wonder why I didn't do that before. I feel like there's a catch, but I guess I can download a fat installer and try
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15:08<danielh1234>don't get me wrong, debootstrap is a perfectly valid way as well, I don't know if you consider the manual partitioning and maybe switching to a new GRUB installation (from the stable installation if you want to get rid of the current install later) painful
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15:16<itd>(Or stretch-backports instead of testing?)
15:18<bremner>yeah, sure.
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16:44<pnbo>is debian going to conform to this? https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/doc/BOOT_LOADER_SPECIFICATION.md
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16:45<bremner>doubtful that somebody here knows
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16:47<bremner>danielh1234: itd: so far so good. I guess I was just overthinking the problem.
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16:49<bremner>pnbo: your best bet is probably to write to debian-devel@lists.debian.org
16:49<bremner>and be prepared for a noisy discussion
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16:56<pnbo>bremner: thx
16:56<itd>\o/
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20:39<rugshucker>So has anyone gotten bluetooth to run with Stable?
20:41<annadane>!anyhone
20:41<annadane>!anyone
20:41<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
20:44<rugshucker>Well it's just that the stock speakers on my laptop aren't very loud. Even when cranked up to 125%. From this guide that I watched part of, it seemed like everything needed was conveniently located in Synaptic. Is this true?
20:45<annadane>synaptic is a package manager... if there's packages then yes they should appear there
20:46<rugshucker>I see. Do you think I may also need some firmware?
20:47<annadane>it's possible, i doubt it just from a volume perspective, but you can see what firmware you're missing with dmesg | grep -i firmware
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20:52<rugshucker>It has 3 entries for bluetooth. Though the very last line reads: Intel Bluetooth firmware patch completed and activated
20:53<annadane>post the full output to paste.debian.net?
20:53<rugshucker>So I assume that means I am good to go I just need some packages to get it up and running.
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20:55<rugshucker>http://paste.debian.net/1040912/
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20:56<rugshucker>I definitely, might anyway, have to get rid of the unused wifi firmware. Still not sure how to do that though.
20:58<annadane>just apt remove it
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21:07<rugshucker>I am not meaning to ask to ask. I just want to know, anndane do you personally use bluetooth on Stretch?
21:08<rugshucker>* annadane
21:08<annadane>no sorry
21:08<annadane>i don't know much regarding bluetooth questions
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21:21<blast007>rugshucker: do you use Gnome?
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21:25<blast007>cuz in Gnome I have a bluetooth icon/line in the top right dropdown menu, and clicking that and going to Bluetooth Settings brings up the Gnome control center for bluetooth
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21:54<rugshucker>Yeah I got Gnome. Already tried connecting my wireless headphones. Didn't get any sound
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22:28<BlaBla>Hi, I was able to find the firmware for the wireless nic and it installs fine. I've checked the Install Guide-including the automated installation section, The Debian Manual, Google, a few forums.and the debian amd64 mailing list. I havent had any luck finding what I need.
22:31<BlaBla>I connedt to wireless networks that either prompt accepting a terms of use or use a WPA2 Enterprise username & password. I don't know how to accept the terms of use or the username and password from the installer inorder to connect to the mirrors. Any suggestions welcome. =)
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 06 00:00:38 2018