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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-09-07

---Logopened Fri Sep 07 00:00:39 2018
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01:39<blkmgk>Hey guys, I'm trying to figure something out. When I run firefox with "startx firefox-esr -- :1 vt1" my trackpad is troublesome. Left click only works on web pages, on the firefox interface it seems to fire off multiple clicks and bug, mouse2 doesnt work at all, and scrolling is inverted.. Any ideas? I can't seem to word it on google...
01:41<blkmgk>I don't understand what hosts the mouse when firefox launches and how to edit it... I have no issue when running a full DE like MATE
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02:10<blkmgk>reboot
02:10<blkmgk>LOL
02:10<blkmgk>i need to go to bed
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06:06<m8mble>I'm in the process of upgrading wheezy -> stretch via jessie (coming from a past long ago) on an older rpi.
06:06<m8mble>I'm on jessie now and try to upgrade the kernel, but there is no linux-image* package installed.
06:06<m8mble>Is it wise, to just go for linux-image-4.9.0-6-rpi2 and hope for the best (fingers crossed)?
06:06<m8mble>uname -a (pre and post dist-upgrade): Linux raspberrypi 4.1.19-v7+ #858 SMP Tue Mar 15 15:56:00 GMT 2016 armv7l GNU/Linux
06:08<bremner>m8mble: I _think_ those images are from raspian, not from debian. So you probably need to ask raspian.
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06:10<m8mble>good spot, thanks
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06:16<Katnip>over on freenode..
06:17<arto>!ask
06:17<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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08:03<k-man>i install google chrome from the google repo, which works fine, but chrome always asks me to make it the default browser. i click the button to do it, but it doesn't seem to stick
08:04<k-man>and next time I launch chrome, it asks me again
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08:11<arto>k-man: this is not very debian spesific
08:11<arto>!ask
08:11<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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08:21<k-man>arto, i know - anyway i solved it
08:21<k-man>arto, but i use debian and i wanted to ask debian users if they were having similar issues
08:21<arto>k-man: that's great
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09:05<m8mble>I'm upgrading on old rpi from wheezy -> stretch and now temporarily reached jessie.
09:05<m8mble>I noticed lots of packages are installed from *wheezy-backport* repos.
09:05<m8mble>Should I worry about these? And if yes, how do I upgrade them?
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09:10<itd>dpkg: raspbian
09:10<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
09:10<itd>m8mble: ^ ask them? :)
09:13<m8mble>plz correct me, if I'm wrong. But "deb http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy-backports main" appears to be pure debian, right?
09:16<duclicsic>yeah, if it's actual debian you're in the right place
09:17<duclicsic>and that does indeed appear to be debian
09:19<duclicsic>if you're upgrading yo stretch you shouldn't have that wheezy backports line in your sources
09:19<m8mble>just to be clear, I'm on my way to stretch. but right now, I'm first time on jessie. going to stretch is the next step afterwards.
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09:20<duclicsic>same goes, you don't need that line
09:20<m8mble>ok. so how do i upgrade the packages installed from these repos?
09:20<m8mble>remove repos plus dist-upgrade?
09:21<duclicsic>presumably there will be updated versions of them in the jessie/stretch repos as you apply updates from them
09:21<duclicsic>but you can check the versions available in these repos on https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages
09:22<m8mble>in that case, I'd rather continue to jessie and care about anything from backport repos afterwards?
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09:22<duclicsic>yeah, remove all reference to backports until you've done your upgrades, then if you don't have the package (or version of it) that you need, you can look to enabling backports
09:26<m8mble>but wait. my problem is the other way around. I'm totally fine upgrading everything to the latest available (for me that temporarily means jessie). But I don't know how to enfore that for packages currently installed from backported repos...
09:27<itd>m8mble: Does Q 3 on https://backports.debian.org/FAQ/ address your question? :)
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09:30<m8mble>not sure. I just don't know how to upgrade from wheezy-backport to jessie.
09:36<m8mble>let me rephrase: Is it safe the remove the entire /etc/apt/sources.list.d/wheezy-backports.list and go for update + upgrade + dist-upgrade?
09:36<duclicsic>yes, but just go update + dist-upgrade, the middile "upgrade" doesn't add anything
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09:38<m8mble>ok sure. thx
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09:43<m8mble>duclicsic: is it expected, that the dist-upgrade doesn't remove anything? even though there are still packages installed from the repos that I just removed?
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09:46<duclicsic>versions of those packages probably exist in other repos, i don't think it would remove them even if there weren't tbh
09:46<duclicsic>frankly i am no expert on debian package management
09:47<duclicsic>so you might want to stick around for someone more knowledgable than I
09:47<m8mble>sure thx anyways
09:47<m8mble>I'm just hesitant to proceed to stretch before I reached a non-wheezy state.
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10:04<Brigo>m8mble, dist-upgrade can remove packages unlike upgrade, that's one of its diferencies.
10:04<Brigo>m8mble, yes, it is safe to upgrade from wheezy-backports to jessie
10:05<arto>I think that only occurs when package has become orphaned
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10:08<m8mble>Brigo: thx, I assumed this is the case. I've disabled all backport repos now. But dist-upgrade still does not remove these packages.
10:09<Brigo>m8mble, what packages?
10:10<m8mble>let me look for an example
10:10<peter1138>Removing sources won't cause packages from that source to be removed.
10:11<m8mble>eg claws-mail
10:11<m8mble>peter1138: upgrading would be fine. but I don't know how to do that
10:12<m8mble>I got tons of packages which behave the same (from wheezy-backport, not from jessie)
10:12<Brigo>,v claws-mail
10:12<judd>Package: claws-mail on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.8.1-2+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 3.8.1-2+deb7u1; jessie: 3.11.1-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 3.11.1-3+deb8u1; jessie-backports: 3.14.1-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 3.14.1-3+b1; buster: 3.17.1-1; sid: 3.17.1-1
10:12<Brigo>m8mble, there is no wheezy-backport package
10:13<m8mble>u sure? cf https://packages.debian.org/wheezy-backports/claws-mail
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10:15<Brigo>m8mble, you are right, judd is wrong, odd.
10:15<Brigo>m8mble, provided the version in jessie is greater, 3.11 it should have been upgrated.
10:16<m8mble>i checked this list: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=claws-mail
10:16<Brigo>or it should have be been upgraded? :-m
10:16<m8mble>Brigo: upgreated xD
10:17<Brigo>m8mble, well, yes, that was a typo :)
10:17<Brigo>m8mble, you can use tracker.debian.org/claws-mail too, i think it's easier.
10:18<Brigo>m8mble, so you are stuck with 3.10 version of claws-mail? is that right?
10:18<m8mble>I got jessie enabled (a la deb http://archive.raspberrypi.org/debian/ jessie main), no backports enabled. And yes I'm stuck. Upgrade does nothing
10:18<m8mble>the url must be wrong
10:18<Brigo>and just installing it? apt-get install claws-mail -t jessie?
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10:20<m8mble>claims to install new package claw-mail. what?
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10:21<m8mble>maybe I'm stupid, how am I supposed to find all packages installed from a given repo?
10:22<m8mble>googling told me: grep Package: /var/lib/apt/lists/http.debian.net_debian_dists_wheezy-backports_main_binary-armhf_Packages
10:22<m8mble>and that lists (among a lot of other stuff) claw-mail
10:22<m8mble>+s
10:23<Brigo>m8mble, claw-mail or claws-mail?
10:23<Brigo>ok there is no claw-mail.
10:24<Brigo>m8mble, apt policy claws-mail
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10:28<m8mble>sry, yes claws-mail (with s)
10:28<m8mble>apt policy claws-mail
10:28<m8mble>E: Invalid operation policy
10:31<itd>m8mble: Try "apt-cache policy claws-mail". Please use paste.debian.net.
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10:34<Brigo>m8mble, it looks like apt isn't in jessie, sorry.
10:35<m8mble>itd: its installed from jessie
10:35<jhutchins_wk>,v apt
10:35<judd>Package: apt on amd64 -- wheezy-security: 0.9.7.9+deb7u6; wheezy: 0.9.7.9+deb7u7; jessie: 1.0.9.8.4; jessie-security: 1.0.9.8.4; stretch: 1.4.8; buster: 1.6.4; sid: 1.6.4; experimental: 1.7.0~alpha3
10:35<m8mble>thats a huge help. this tells me /var/lib/apt/lists/http.debian.net_debian_dists_wheezy-backports_main_binary-armhf_Packages is not up to date
10:37<m8mble>can apt-cache list all installed packages including the repo from which they were installed?
10:38<Brigo>m8mble, armh?
10:39<itd>m8mble: That's probably not the output of that command (and I'm not paste.debian.net). ;) (Maybe "apt-cache policy '*'"?)
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10:40<m8mble>yaeh, armv7. technically raspbian, but I'm trying hard to only ask anything concerning pure debian here
10:40<Brigo>,v claws-mail --arch armhf
10:40<judd>Package: claws-mail on armhf -- wheezy: 3.8.1-2+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 3.8.1-2+deb7u1; jessie: 3.11.1-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 3.11.1-3+deb8u1; jessie-backports: 3.14.1-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 3.14.1-3+b1; buster: 3.17.1-1; sid: 3.17.1-1
10:41<Brigo>m8mble, well, i was talking about amd64 packages, the armhf pacakes could be totally different.
10:41<m8mble>itd: http://paste.debian.net/1041160/
10:41<itd>m8mble: Good luck.
10:44<m8mble>itd: apt-cache policy '*' worked. thx for this one
10:44<Brigo>!raspbian
10:44<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
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10:45<Brigo>m8mble, and that's why ours suggestions didn't work.
10:45<m8mble>not sure. you helped a lot.
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10:46<m8mble>my problem was: the /var/lib/apt/lists/* files contain also non-installed packages (which some SO-post suggested otherwise, but probably my bad)
10:46<m8mble>I just verified everything is installed from jessie now. I will happily go on to stretch now
10:46<m8mble>thanks for all your help
10:49<Brigo>m8mble, good luck.
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11:29<DNS>which version of keepass in stretch is most active developed? keepass2 or keepassx?
11:30<DNS>or keepassxc? o_0
11:30<DNS>from the version it seems like keepass2
11:31<DNS>i dont mind about a gui
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11:37<petn-randall>DNS: They all fullfil their function. If you have no preference, I'd go with keepass2.
11:40<DNS>petn-randall: ok thx, but i chose keepassx because then i dont need to install those mono dependencies
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12:58<mnuhmnuh>any ideas why apt-get wants me to autoremove youtube-dl? i've not used it recently, but i want it.
12:59<petn-randall>!bat
12:59<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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13:05<mnuhmnuh>youtube-dl: Installed: 2017.05.18.1-1 Candidate: 2017.05.18.1-1 also wants to throw away rtmpdump. whatever that does, dunno.
13:08<annadane>autoremove is entirely optional
13:08<annadane>i think aptitude why youtube-dl will show whatever package was removed that dragged in youtube-d;
13:08<annadane>dl
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13:15<DNS>mnuhmnuh: yea a dependency package was probably removed thats why youtube-dl should be autoremoved
13:18<DNS>mnuhmnuh: 'dpkg -s youtube-dl' shows the dependencies or https://packages.debian.org/stretch/youtube-dl there you see the dependencies too
13:21<mnuhmnuh>i just this minute finished collating !bat 1, 2, 3 and about to pastebinit, and i agree with annadane. i'm not hurting for storage space.i've used 3gb in my 417gb /home ptn.
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13:23<r_rios>Hello, all
13:24<petn-randall>hi r_rios
13:24<mnuhmnuh>2018_run_1.txt https://paste.debian.net/1041184/
13:24<r_rios>So, since Firefox 62 has just been release, Firefox 52 ESR has just reached EOL. Any idea when Debian will get 60 ESR?
13:24<r_rios>s/release/released
13:24<mnuhmnuh>2018_pkgpolicy_2.txt http://paste.debian.net/1041185/
13:25<mnuhmnuh>2018_policy_3.txt http://paste.debian.net/1041186/
13:25<petn-randall>r_rios: I'm guessing real soon now, because there are three open CVEs for ff esr 52.
13:27<r_rios>petn-randall:
13:27<r_rios>good
13:28<mnuhmnuh>c mpv Recommends youtube-dl (>= 2014.11.26)
13:29<mnuhmnuh>i use vlc
13:29<r_rios>Also, I was led to believe the Rust dep in the newer versions was what made the Debian team keep using ESR for so long, instead of having the normal Firefox available like usual. Since now they're gonna have to depend on Rust anyway, what's stopping them from having Firefox normal available?
13:29<DNS>yea but youtube-dl needs mpv
13:30<DNS>nah sorry its only recommend
13:30<DNS>hm
13:30<mnuhmnuh>ha haaa.
13:31<annadane>you *should* be using youtube-dl in virtualenv anyway
13:31<petn-randall>r_rios: That's not how stable works.
13:31<mnuhmnuh>i use it in an xterm. virtual enough?
13:31<petn-randall>r_rios: Debian doesn't ship the default firefox because they don't want to feature-upgrade very 6 weeks.
13:32<annadane>no; you want the newer upstream version of youtube-dl, because websites change and youtube-dl stops working
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13:32<annadane>i have yt aliased to source youtube-dl/bin/activate && pip install youtube-dl -U
13:32<mnuhmnuh>cool. :-)
13:33<at0m>pip install youtube-dl? youtube-dl -U gets the script from github eh
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13:38<mnuhmnuh>could you two please assume my eyes just rolled up in my head? tx. now explain how i do what you're taling about. pip? what? there's no youtube-dl/bin/activate here.
13:39<annadane>you create it using the normal process for creating virtualenv's: 1) virtualenv youtube-dl (or whatever you want to call it) 2) source youtube-dl/bin/activate 3) pip install youtube-dl
13:39<mnuhmnuh>what's pip?
13:40<annadane>it's the name by which you install pipy programs: https://pypi.org/
13:40<annadane>pypi*
13:42<mnuhmnuh>huh. pypibrowser
13:45<mnuhmnuh>what pkg is pip contained in?
13:46<jelly>,v youtube-dl
13:46<judd>Package: youtube-dl on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 2017.05.18.1-1~bpo8+2; stretch: 2017.05.18.1-1; buster: 2018.06.18-1.1; sid: 2018.06.18-1.1; buster-multimedia: 2018.08.28-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 2018.09.01-dmo1
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13:46<jelly>huh, no backports
13:46<jelly>(it's python, real easy to backport if you want to)
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13:47<at0m>https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl just a script
13:47<jelly>mnuhmnuh: pip is python-specific package manager
13:48<at0m>i crontab'd a youtube-dl -U for monthly updates
13:48<at0m>annadane: why do you virtualenv youtube-dl ?
13:48<annadane>because it seems to be the simplest option available
13:50<at0m>annadane: and how do you keep it up-to-date? some pip update management?
13:50<annadane>i have yt aliased to source youtube-dl/bin/activate && pip install youtube-dl -U
13:51<mnuhmnuh>define "simplest". move mouse to correct xterm, cd $tunes, youtube-dl <clickpasteurl>Enter
13:52<at0m>i don't see why i'd pip. but yea the repo package can get outdated often
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13:52<at0m>hence my crontab to youtube-dl -U
13:52<annadane>the alias ensures i always get the absolute latest version whenever i want to download something
13:52<at0m>amazing how many sites that script supports :)
13:53<at0m>annadane: i see
13:55<jelly>the worst ones break so very often
13:57<mnuhmnuh>youtube-dl -U says to use my system's package manager. so, dpkg-reconfigure youtube-dl
13:58<annadane>you need to pip install youtube-dl, once you've "source youtube-dl/bin/activate"
13:59<at0m>mnuhmnuh: i don't remember exactly how i did it.. copied it somewhere after apt install, then apt remove then moved it back or so. haven't touched/reinstalled it since long
13:59<annadane>sorry, pip install youtube-dl -U
13:59<at0m>yea the -U doesn't work when installed via apt
13:59<annadane>btw it goes without saying, don't use root with pip
14:01<jelly>no, it goes with saying
14:02<jelly>don't run pip install as root!
14:02<mnuhmnuh>ah, you're never more than a reinstall away.
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14:26<mnuhmnuh>so, jelly & annadane, i'm assuming you don't really know what you're talking about, since you fail explaining it. but thanks for the pip warning.
14:28<jelly>you have NO idea how bad I really am at explaining things
14:28<mnuhmnuh>perl has a lot of that grotty backscatter for experts only-mode in it so i'm not surprised python does it too. python specific pkg manager. hmm.
14:29<annadane>i... uh. please explain what i "don't know what i'm talking about"
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14:32<mnuhmnuh>pip, python, youtube-dl -U, "youtube-dl -U says to use my system's package manager." so, ... <crickets>. apt-get source youtube-dl/bin/activate # o'really?
14:33<annadane>yes because if used through virtualenv you're not meant to "youtube-dl -U" because that won't work with apt in debian stable
14:34<annadane>so what you do is "source youtube-dl/bin/activate" (once you've created it with virtualenv) and then "pip install youtube-dl -U"
14:34<annadane>and, again, not using the root account
14:34<annadane>i just have it set to an alias
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14:36<annadane>also, no, it's not apt-get source
14:36<at0m>or use the 2liner from https://github.com/rg3/youtube-dl/#installation, chown it to $user and -U as $user
14:36<annadane>it is just "source"
14:37<annadane>apt-get and pip are not at all the same thing
14:37<at0m>there's also a pip howto there, but they sudo pip - ouch
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14:37<annadane>and the reason you don't pip with root is a) you don't want untrusted blah running with root privileges and b) you don't want to install multiple python versions alongside each other with root
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14:49<annadane>that github... uh, uses curl and wget as root
14:50<annadane>i'd really just ignore the whole thing in favor of safer methods
14:51<AciD`>hey guys, I'm seeing something that confuses me: I currently have the non-free `steam` package installed and the version is `1.0.0.55-1`. However when I do `apt-cache search steam`, I can see there is an additional steam version `1.0.0.56-1` available, but `apt-get dist-upgrade` does not update it. Any ideas why?
14:53<annadane>1.0.0.56 is in sid so you probably have sid in your /etc/apt/sources.list
14:54<AciD`>ah yes, of course, thanks annadane
14:54<AciD`>how do you check from which 'channel' a package is available?
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14:55<AciD`>`apt-cache showpkg steam` kinda gives you that info
14:55<annadane>i'm not sure if there is a way via CLI, i just checked packages.debian.org
14:55<AciD`>with this line `1.0.0.56-1 (/var/lib/apt/lists/deb.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_non-free_binary-i386_Packages)`
14:55<annadane>also please don't mix sid with debian stable
14:56<AciD`>I'm using the -t just for very packages
14:56<annadane>uh huh. still a bad idea
14:57<AciD`>I know
14:57<annadane>it depends on the package but really, as a general rule it shouldn't be done because it can pull in all kinds of dependencies like libc6 and leave you with a broken system
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15:18<mnuhmnuh>annadane: and here we were chatting about steam. "Steam is a proprietary content delivery and management application for PC software with Linux support." and you thought pip needed to be warned about.
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15:20<mnuhmnuh>there's a lot of wiggle room in "proprietary content delivery and management application" for anyone sneaky enough.
15:22<at0m>slightly related, apple rejected kodi from its store cos of kodi's plugins - a store in a store, the first one not being under apple's control
15:23<mnuhmnuh>i'm sure i saw something related kodi-ish on techdirt months ago
15:23<mnuhmnuh>weeks?
15:26<at0m>mnuhmnuh: https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/17/facebooks-kodi-box-ban-is-nothing-new/ ?
15:27<at0m>that's a bit out of scope here, people dd'ing kodi to rpi's then selling them to popcorntime
15:28<at0m>problem is more that, like annadane pointed out, you're pulling in then running totally unverified code (who knows?) on an otherwise trusted machine
15:30<mnuhmnuh>at0m: sounds like buying a lightbulb, or garage door opener, or tv, or fridge, toaster, ... these days.
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15:32<mnuhmnuh>in the old days, we joked about progs growing up to finally be able to do email too.
15:34<at0m>now you may find static irc client binaries upped to your fridge eh
15:35<at0m>i guess MQTT doesnt need irc to botnet =)
15:36<mnuhmnuh>any sufficiently infected usbkey can destroy civilization; it's not all that robust. cf. 1917 influenza, biology vector.
15:37<mnuhmnuh>mqtt?
15:37<at0m>Message Queuing Telemetry Transport, mosquito, next-gen irc/xmpp
15:37<at0m>the communication for IOT
15:40<mnuhmnuh>i was forced to take an ibm mqueue C programmer's class by a client, pretty much slept through it, thought it didn't come anywhere near the size of data packets i wanted to toss around, ptheh!
15:41<at0m>mnuhmnuh: #d-o maybe?
15:41<mnuhmnuh>"the communication for IOT" surely you jest?
15:47<jelly>those iot things are tiny and supposed to use power sparingly. Protocols get adapted accordingly.
15:49<jelly>mqtt is probably "not quite amqp but smaller", for people that got used to amqp, dunno
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16:36<mnuhmnuh>"supposed to" comes up a lot when speaking of iot.
16:39<mnuhmnuh>!mqtt
16:39<mnuhmnuh>!amqp
16:40<mnuhmnuh>how can dpkg not know about "next-gen irc/xmpp"?
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16:49<jhutchins_wk>mnuhmnuh: Quite simply because nobody's told it, but it might not be a Debian thing yet.
16:56<mnuhmnuh>jhutchins_wk: aptitude search amqp
16:57<mnuhmnuh>appears to have arrived.
16:59<jhutchins_wk>mnuhmnuh: "Exists" != "Is a Debian thing"
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18:06<KolK>Hello, I'm trying to build a debian package. I have found that debuild is nearly always triggered with -us -uc options
18:06<KolK>Could you tell me what do they mean?
18:06<KolK>I cannot find it in man pages of debuild
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18:10<eriberto>KolK: you can use debuild only.
18:11<KolK>yes, but do you know why these two options are always given in tutorials?
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18:12<eriberto>To ignore the signing step with GPG key used by the maintainer.
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18:34<KolK>eriberto: ok, thank you
18:37<KolK>I have one more question
18:37<KolK>I run debuild this way:
18:38<KolK>debuild -uc -us -eGIT_COMMIT=some-commit -eGIT_REF=some-branch
18:38<KolK>but I cannot access these variables in debian/rules file
18:39<KolK>how can I modify the most default debian/rules to be able to get values of these environment variables?
18:42<itd>KolK: What happens if you try to access these variables? (And how does that look like?)
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23:33<nightshift>I've been trying to use jigdo on windows to download the .iso images. Unfortunately, jigdo is failing. Is this a known issue?
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 08 00:00:40 2018