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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-09-13

---Logopened Thu Sep 13 00:00:47 2018
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03:28<Jeremie>Hi guys,
03:29<Jeremie>I have a problem with my debian 9.5 (VM virtualbox)
03:29<Jeremie>whois command doesn't works
03:30<jm_>what does doesn't work mean exactly?
03:31<Jeremie>jeremie@Debian:~$ whois google.com connect: Le réseau n'est pas accessible
03:31<Jeremie>it's in french, it means "network unreachable"
03:31<Jeremie>but
03:31<Jeremie>jeremie@Debian:~$ ping google.fr PING google.fr (216.58.213.163) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from par21s04-in-f3.1e100.net (216.58.213.163): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=10.9 ms 64 bytes from par21s04-in-f3.1e100.net (216.58.213.163): icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=12.0 ms
03:31<Jeremie>ping works
03:31<Jeremie>dns works too
03:32<Jeremie>jeremie@Debian:~$ dig google.fr ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3-P4-Debian <<>> google.fr ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 59403 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4000 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;google.fr. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: google.fr. 82 IN A 216.58.213.163 ;; Query t
03:32<jm_>just for help with giving us error messages in english:
03:32<jm_>!localized errors
03:32<dpkg>To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install".
03:32<jm_>but anyway, whois contacts a whois server, not google.com in this case
03:34<nyoron>try `strace -e connect whois google.com`
03:34<Jeremie>root@Debian:/home/jeremie# LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required: menu Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove it. 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. root@Debian:/home/jeremie# whois google.fr connect: Le réseau n'est pas accessible
03:35-!-fourlegs [~fourlegs@p200300DEF727AD807405F6217292A918.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
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03:35<jm_>that was just an example, for you it would be LC_ALL=C whois google.com
03:35<Jeremie>ah ok !
03:36<nyoron>also, please don't paste here
03:36<jm_>but anyway, strace would show you where it's trying to connect (man page also tells you that)
03:36<nyoron>if your paste is long, use a pastebin
03:36<nyoron>https://paste.debian.net/
03:36<nyoron>for example
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03:38<Jeremie>https://pastebin.com/Ln4tNzyc
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03:41<Jeremie>is it a problem with ipv6 ?
03:44<jm_>looks like it
03:44<Jeremie>i'll try to disable it
03:44<Jeremie>disabl
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03:52<Jeremie>ok same -_- despite a reboot
03:53<Jeremie>https://paste.debian.net/1042046/
03:53<Jeremie>not exactly same error message
03:53<Jeremie>but quite similar
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03:56<jm_>it means it can't connect to that IP on port 43, and it appears IPv6 is not the real cause (I see the same ENETUNREACH for IPv6 connect)
03:57<nyoron>but this time it's "Timeout.", not "connect: Network is unreachable"
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03:59<Jeremie>sorry i'm back
03:59<jm_>it means it can't connect to that IP on port 43, and it appears IPv6 is not the real cause (I see the same ENETUNREACH for IPv6 connect)
03:59-!-alephnull is "Alok G Singh" on #debian-next #moocows #bitlbee
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04:00<jm_>so you'll want to investigate why it can't connect
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04:01<nyoron>but this time it's "Timeout.", not "connect: Network is unreachable"
04:01<nyoron>IPv6 was the real cause
04:01<nyoron>but there is another problem
04:01<nyoron>your ISP might be blocking whois requests
04:02<nyoron>72.13.60.74:43 works fine for me
04:02<jm_>it would still work for Jeremie if IPv4 connect would work, so with real cause I meant they can't connect on port 43 hence that comment
04:04<nyoron>jm_: I get what you mean
04:04<nyoron>Jeremie: can you ping 72.13.60.74?
04:08<jm_>or try using some web whois form perhaps
04:09<nyoron>even better: install tor and proxy whatever you want through it with torsocks
04:09<nyoron>torsocks whois google.com
04:09<jm_>heh
04:10<nyoron>that way you also get PRIVACY and ANONYMITY
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04:11<nyoron>if your ISP is really blocking 43, then it's a nice way to show it a middle finger
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04:35<Jeremie>my debian is behind a windows
04:35<Jeremie>but when i try by telnet on windows machine
04:36<Jeremie>it does'nt work so i supposed that my company doesn't allow port 43
04:37<Jeremie>C:\Users\JPL>telnet whois.iana.org 43 Connexion à whois.iana.org...Could not open connection to the host, on port 43 : Connect failed.
04:38<Jeremie>are you agree with my diagnostic ?
04:39<TotallyNotKim>just spin up sshd on port 443 or something
04:39<TotallyNotKim>I doubt they are doing deep packet inspection
04:40<TotallyNotKim>but make sure you don't get your ass fired for doing that
04:40<jm_>looks like they block it yes, so just use a web whois form or whatever
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04:49<Jeremie>@TotallyNotKim I don't understand what can i do with sshd ?
04:50<TotallyNotKim>Jeremie: I didn't get what you're trying. I guessed reaching the box "behind windows"
04:52<Jeremie>just to be sure that the problem is not on the debian, i have tried on a windows machine which is on the same network
04:53<Jeremie>and it doesn't works on the windows too
04:53<TotallyNotKim>okay
04:53<Jeremie>telnet 43 -> no connection
04:53<TotallyNotKim>so
04:53<nyoron>Jeremie: that's right, your network is blocking 43
04:53<TotallyNotKim>yeah
04:53<TotallyNotKim>it's blocked somewhere
04:54<Jeremie>ok i'll see with my colleagues
04:54<Jeremie>thanks for you help ;-)
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10:51<manzana32>Hi
10:51<arto>!ask
10:51<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:56<nyoron>arto: maybe manzana32 simply wanted to say hi
10:56<duclicsic>!chat
10:56<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
10:56<arto>nyoron: perhaps so, but this is Debian support channel
10:57<annadane>i basically ignore it until they say something like "anyone here? can someone help?"
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11:02<manzana32>I am new here. I just wanted to say hi. Thanks for your replies. Sorry for the misunderstanding in this support channel only.
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11:04<annadane>i don't find there's anything wrong with saying hi
11:04<nyoron>manzana32: no worries, some people are just too autistic
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11:05<annadane>the only true offtopic is people going off on extended discussions on off topic things and even then it's not as serious as when they're doing that when someone else has an actual question
11:05<nyoron>discuss whatever you want as long as it's not completely offtopic
11:05<annadane>manzana32, welcome, nice to have you here
11:06<duclicsic>and avoid calling people autistic, ideally
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11:07<arto>actually, that was first time for me :)
11:07<nyoron>duclicsic: unless it's likely to be true
11:08<duclicsic>nyoron: i don't think it's appropriarte for this channel one way or another
11:08<arto>nyoron: it usually needs more than one line of text to classify person have neurological disorder
11:08<duclicsic>or any polite discussion for that matter
11:09<duclicsic>look what you made us do now though, we're off topic!
11:09<annadane>i think kali/parrot may have changed their default irc clients connecting to #debian, there's a lot fewer "hi" and pentesting questions than there used to be
11:10<arto>annadane: and that that you must be identified
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11:10<arto>but kali was cool about year or two back
11:12<arto>event that was not about Debian, what's happening here
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11:17<chaos>i wanted to mount win10 share but says cifs not supported, help plz
11:20<nyoron>chaos: what says?
11:20<nyoron>describe what you are doing
11:21<chaos>mount //foobar/I /mnt/i --verbose -o username=<user>,password=<pass>
11:21<arto>chaos: install cifs-utils
11:21<chaos>cifs-utils is already the newest version (2:6.7-1).
11:22<arto>chaos: and then: mount -t cifs //windows_host/folder /mount/point/ -o username=uname,uid=uname,gid=uname
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11:23<chaos>doesn't like my uid
11:23<chaos>says bad option
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11:23<arto>chaos: give just username
11:24<chaos>mount error: cifs filesystem not supported by the system
11:24<arto>chaos: as root or sudo
11:24<chaos>root
11:25<arto>chaos: mount point ok?
11:25<chaos>it's chmod 755
11:26<arto>chaos: same username on win10
11:26<chaos>username is the email address, right?
11:26<towo`>[17:24:43] <chaos> mount error: cifs filesystem not supported by the system
11:26<chaos>with which i can log in to m$?
11:26<towo`>that has to be fixed 1st!
11:27<chaos>root@mage:/mnt# which mount.cifs
11:27<chaos> /sbin/mount.cifs
11:27<towo`>grep -i cifs /boot/config-$(uname -r)
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11:29<chaos>https://pastebin.com/4RzdBiPc
11:30<nyoron>maybe that's obvious, but did you try `modprobe cifs`?
11:30<chaos>modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'cifs': Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)
11:31<nyoron>it looks like that is your problem
11:34<jelly>chaos: that can happen if the kernel package is upgraded but the system is not rebooted yet
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11:34<arto>yea, I was thinking that too, try reboot
11:35<chaos>jelly: :\ been up for 244 days ... i am pretty sure i've run dist-upgrade since :(
11:35<nyoron>reboot is unlikely to help
11:36<nyoron>I have that module even though I don't have cifs-utils installed
11:36<chaos>well... i will not reboot it anyway
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11:37<nyoron>do you use a custom kernel?
11:37<jelly>nyoron: having the module and being able to load into the current running kernel to use it are two different things
11:37<nyoron>jelly: I have both
11:37<chaos>nyoron: not anymore
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11:38<nyoron>find /lib/modules/ | grep cifs
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11:39<jelly>chaos: well okay, but not rebooting may result in not being able to mount.cifs
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11:40<jelly>chaos: you could use smbclient to access a remote share without mounting it properly, as an alternative
11:40<chaos>https://pastebin.com/88gzuxZp
11:41<nyoron>and your kernel is?
11:41<chaos>4.9.0.-4
11:41<chaos>4.9.0-4
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11:42<jelly>chaos: current kernel in stretch has 4.9.0-8-amd64 ABI string, so you might as well patch up the system once again
11:42<arto>modules were 4.9.0.6
11:43<nyoron>strace -e openat modprobe cifs
11:43<chaos>4.9.0-4 & 4.9.0-6 were there both
11:43<nyoron>arto: and 4.9.0-4
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11:43<arto>I stand corrected
11:43<nyoron>sudo strace if necessary
11:44<chaos>root@mage:/mnt# strace -e openat modprobe cifs
11:44<chaos>modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'cifs': Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)
11:44<chaos>+++ exited with 1 +++
11:44<jelly>debian often has kernel package upgrades without changing the ABI. When that happens, current kernel and built module files can have mismatching symbols.
11:44<jelly>solution is: reboot
11:45<chaos>well... if i wanted to rebbot my box for everything i'd stick to windows
11:45<nyoron>chaos: that's very strange because it should have tried to open at least something
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11:45<jelly>chaos: patching kernel is not "everything"
11:45<jelly>chaos: corolary: if you want modules to keep working, don't upgrade kernels
11:46<arto>chaos: if you rule that out, we might be out of ideas, even linux has to be rebooted after kernel upgrade
11:46<nyoron>okay, just show the whole strace modprobe cifs
11:47<chaos>https://pastebin.com/jLNtuB3G
11:47<jelly>chaos: if dmesg shows issues with symbols, that's a pretty sure sign you stumbled onto this issue
11:48<chaos>root@mage:/mnt# grep cifs /var/log/dmesg
11:48<chaos>root@mage:/mnt#
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11:50<jelly>chaos: dmesg is a command. See if anything appears in it when you try to modprobe.
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11:50<jelly>that's what (see dmesg) in that ERROR line means
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11:50<chaos>like this: [21088049.747122] dns_resolver: Unknown symbol register_key_type_2 (err 0)
11:50<jelly>or look at /var/log/kern.log
11:51<jelly>yes
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11:53<jelly>if it appears again when you try to "modprobe cifs" again, then you know
11:54<chaos>it does
11:54<chaos>well... so much for mounting win10 shares then
11:55<arto>chaos: any reason why you don't want to reboot?
11:55<chaos>cos the box is remote
11:55<chaos>it's a hassle to get to it
11:56<arto>chaos: good reason, but then there is a problem
11:57<nyoron>chaos gets ENOENT (No such file or directory) when it tries to finit_module(3, "", 0)
11:57<nyoron>that's very strange
11:57<nyoron>there is no mention of ENOENT in man finit_module
11:57<chaos>i have no idea what that means
11:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 382] by debhelper
12:02<nyoron>to load a kernel module, you first open it
12:02<nyoron>open("/lib/modules/4.9.0-4-amd64/kernel/net/dns_resolver/dns_resolver.ko", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
12:02<nyoron>then you try to init it
12:02<nyoron>finit_module(3, "", 0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
12:03<nyoron>finit_module() may fail due to many reasons, but ENOENT is not one of them
12:03<chaos>so my system is special :)
12:03<chaos>yay!
12:04<nyoron>it doesn't make any sense to say that there is "no such file or directory" when you have it opened already
12:05<chaos>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 17104 Dec 23 2017 /lib/modules/4.9.0-4-amd64/kernel/net/dns_resolver/dns_resolver.ko
12:07<nyoron>jelly: > debian often has kernel package upgrades without changing the ABI. When that happens, current kernel and built module files can have mismatching symbols.
12:07<nyoron>can you elaborate on that?
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12:46<kie>reetings all, having some monitor configuration issues on debian, is this the right place to ask questions?
12:47<annadane>kie, yup yup
12:50<kie>I have 2 monitors (which I think are the same) and both appear to be working. they both have dvi input (only), my graphics card has 1 dvi output and many hdmi outputs.
12:50<kie>I have one dvi -> dvi cable and one hdmi -> dvi cable.
12:51<kie>the dvi - dvi cable monitor is working, the other is not, but the system does realise that I have 2 monitors but the second one is disabled.
12:52<kie>any advice on how to get this working, I have tried configuring things in the settings and googling for solutions but I am rather stuck. any help would be appreciated.
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12:54<kie>I even am ok to buy extra bits of hardware (but would rather not have to buy another monitor) btw I was able to borrow and try an hdmi -> hdmi cable with that graphics card and a borrowed monitor and it worked fine, unfortunately I had to give that monitor back.
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12:56<arto>kie: have you tried xrandr ?
12:57<kie>no I haven't tried xrandr
12:57<arto>kie: that is tool usually used when more than one monitor
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12:58<kie>ok, I will look that up and give it a try, thanks
12:58<arto>kie: yup
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13:03<blast007>kie: have you tried the HDMI-to-DVI cable method alone to see if that works at all? some adapter cables/dongles are one-way
13:03<kie>xrandr output shows both connections, but only 1 screen https://pastebin.com/fne5TAEi
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13:07<arto>kie: xrandr --output HDMI-1 --auto
13:07<arto>can be HDMI-2, etc.
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13:07<kie>$ xrandr --output HDMI-1 --auto
13:07<kie>xrandr: Output HDMI-0 is not disconnected but has no modes
13:07<kie>warning: output HDMI-1 not found; ignoring
13:08<arto>kie: xrandr --output HDMI-0 --auto
13:08<kie>xrandr: Output HDMI-0 is not disconnected but has no modes
13:08<kie>xrandr: cannot find preferred mode
13:09<arto>kie: maybe time to check what blast007 suggested
13:10<arto>kie: do you know any specs of monitors?
13:10<kie>should I reboot the system with that cable only? i tried just disconnecting the dvi-dvi cable but then both monitors are black.
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13:10<arto>kie: yes
13:11<kie>yes : display settings lists them as 2560x1440, 27", 60Hz
13:11<jelly>nyoron: modules and kernel provided in one version of linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64 package are often incompatible with modules from a later version of the same package. The ABI promise does not apply to symbols used internally.
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13:11<arto>kie: thats good
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13:12<jelly>!kernel abi
13:12<dpkg>Debian kernel packages have an <ABI> to indicate when out-of-tree modules must be rebuilt; upgrading from a package with 3.2.0-3-amd64 to another 3.2.0-3-amd64 doesn't require fglrx/nvidia/etc to be rebuilt, but upgrading from 3.2.0-3-amd64 to 3.2.0-4-amd64 does. Development kernels intended for <experimental> have the ABI <trunk> to indicate the ABI is unmanaged. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelABIChanges
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13:13<arto>kie: try to reboot with hdmi cable
13:13<kie>I mean it lists one as that but not the other one. which is simply listed as 27" and listed as a different brand ( they are both yamakasi, a very cheap brand that I bought locally here )
13:13<jelly>nyoron: so third party modules built for 4.9.0-8-amd64 are supposed to keep working with newer kernel and same 4.9.0-8-amd64 ABI. First party modules, no.
13:13<kie>ok, I will try that now and report back in about 5-10 minutes
13:13<arto>ki:ok!
13:14<arto>kie^^
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13:25<kie>greetings again, when I try booting with only the hdmi-dvi cable attached both monitors remain black
13:25<arto>kie: seems you have faulty cable
13:27<kie>I just bought both cables today including that one (plus the dvi-dvi from the same place), seems reasonable quality, I wonder...
13:27<arto>kie: to be sure, you can test dvi cable once in both monitors, if they work, then your hdmi cable is the bad link
13:28<arto>kie: and what is your gpu?
13:29<kie>gpu is an nvidia gtx1070ti
13:29<arto>kie: and driver you are using?
13:30<kie>I'm not sure, how can I check?
13:30<arto>kie: install inxi
13:31<arto>arto: but I'd first try that dvi cable test in both monitors, switch monitor of, before unplugging/plugging
13:33<arto>sorry, that was for kie, late night....
13:34<kie>nvidia driver, it says unloaded are fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa. I tried the other monitor already, it is working.
13:35<arto>kie: that's fine, if you can borrow hdmi cable, or go to store and say it did not work
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13:36<Synthea>How can I check with bash if a folder within a directory exists?
13:37<arto>Synthea: [ -d dir ]
13:37<Synthea>no arto I mean if
13:37<mnuhmnuh>Synthea: ls -AlF shows most everything
13:38<arto>Synthea: [ ] is a test in bash
13:38<mnuhmnuh>Synthea: use tab completion.
13:38<Synthea>mnuhmnuh, there are better method for scripts for knowing if exists a dir within foo/*
13:38<Synthea>It's for a script
13:38<kie>ok, I will ask them to replace the cable or atleast ask them to test it to see if it is working. I worry that the cable is working and the problem will still present itself afterwards. Thanks for your help. inxi is very useful btw I haven't heard of it before.
13:38<Synthea>The one above is a question
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13:39<arto>Synthea: wire if [ -d dir ] then... !note spaces
13:39<mnuhmnuh>Synthea: find -type d ...
13:39<Synthea>Oh
13:39<Synthea>Thx mnuh
13:40<arto>kie: good plan, you are welcome
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13:42<mnuhmnuh>Synthea: arto's suggest is better in script. find is overkill in script.
13:43<Synthea>mnuhmnuh, [ -d dir/? ] works if you know ?
13:44<Synthea>You can't just write [ -d dir/* ]
13:44<Synthea>It will say too many arguments
13:44<arto>Synthea: if that is the question, use mnuhmnuh's find -d
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13:46<mnuhmnuh>Synthea: always quote expr., and "dir<regexp>" applies. if [ -d "~/somedir/dir[0-9]_*" ]; then ...
13:46<Synthea>Oh
13:47<arto>Synthea:? is single chracter wildcard
13:47<Synthea>arto I was using it as IDK
13:47<arto>Synthea: if you have single-chracater dirs, it works
13:48<mnuhmnuh>[a-zA-Z0-9] is one char. any one of those. :-)
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13:49<arto>I think digits are not accepted in dir- or file-names
13:49<mnuhmnuh>regexp is deep & wide topic.
13:50<arto>mnuhmnuh: and I live in scandinavian country, where we need UTF
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13:51<mnuhmnuh>i have ~/tmp/linux-source-4.17/ in my home ~/tmp dir.
13:51<arto>mnuhmnuh: but there are classes in bash too [ :alpha ]
13:51<arto>mnuhmnuh: I mean as in first character
13:52<arto>mnuhmnuh: easy to test, hold on
13:52<arto>mnuhmnuh: ok, no problem, numbers accepted
13:52<arto>mnuhmnuh: that differs to python and many languages
13:53<mnuhmnuh>fortran was that way, haha!
13:53<mnuhmnuh>certain first char vars were ints, ...
13:54<arto>mnuhmnuh: I'm lucky: MS-basic, Z80 assembler, bash, vaxvms, c/c++/c#, python
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13:56<mnuhmnuh>skipped basic, straight to c, no c++, ms batch, vaxdcl, sh/bash/zsh/ksh, perl.
13:56<arto>mnuhmnuh: when y2k was active, fortran programmers had high demand
13:57<mnuhmnuh>cobol programmers still are high demand; banks.
13:58<arto>mnuhmnuh: same reason, at hear at least banks also needed fortran wizards
13:58<mnuhmnuh>fortran's still big in science. scientific linux is on a lot of cern boxes.
13:58<arto>mnuhmnuh: I never even dream to be programmer there :)
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14:07<mnuhmnuh>arto: they're just like other users, but they all think they're wizards. they are in their specialties perhaps; in IT, not likely.
14:07<mnuhmnuh>"Dennis has broken his code again. Can we take it away and manage it for him?" "No."
14:08<mnuhmnuh>broken == ftbfs.
14:09<arto>mnuhmnuh: in my country, I know many high shcool students who have succeeded exceptionally in their studies have change to work in cern for a limited time
14:10<arto>mnuhmnuh: and they actually are not so many
14:10<arto>mnuhmnuh: and I guesss it just because is so popular place to post doc, and kinds
14:11<mnuhmnuh>i think cern's great, one of the better outfits. and it's far and wide. a friend of mine in west britain does server work on their grid, helped build it.
14:11<arto>mnuhmnuh: I know, I was at uni at that time, it was interesting
14:12<mnuhmnuh>vast quantities of data being reduced, distributed, ...
14:14<arto>mnuhmnuh: some data mining has been at high schools for a few years, I don't know if we are speaking different things
14:16<mnuhmnuh>i hope for synergy between debianedu and all this. growing up with linux puts those kids ahead when they grow into an adult market.
14:17<arto>mnuhmnuh: yeah, to be young
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14:20<nyoron>jelly: sorry, I was AFK
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14:20<nyoron>I don't quite get Debian's kernel versioning
14:21<nyoron>$ apt show linux-image-4.17.0-1-amd64
14:21<nyoron>Package: linux-image-4.17.0-1-amd64
14:21<nyoron>Version: 4.17.8-1
14:21<arto>nyoron: that has been talked here, there are Debian package versions, which install certain kernel
14:22<nyoron>Does that mean that, say, 4.17.9-1 can come out, but it will still be linux-image-4.17.0-1-amd64?
14:22<jelly>it might be, yes
14:22<jelly>(it might also become linux-image-4.17.0-2-amd64 if ABI cannot be easily preserved)
14:23<jelly>and if you have, dunno, vmware or nvidia modules build for the old one, they won't need rebuilding after reboot
14:24<nyoron>by ABI, do you mean the internal kernel ABI?
14:24<nyoron>i.e. not the syscalls, etc.
14:26<jelly>did you read the wiki page
14:27<jelly>syscalls are part of API
14:28<nyoron>okay, so, the ABI = kernel headers
14:28<nyoron>yeah, they are part of it, but they usually never change
14:31<jelly>headers are used for compilation, so that's also API
14:32<jelly>ABI denote compatibility at binary level, for code that's already built
14:34<nyoron>I was wondering if you were talking about the ABI that is exposed to kernel modules vs. the ABI that the kernel exposes to processes
14:35<jelly>kernel should not expose ABI to userspace
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14:36<jelly>this is about compatibility among compiled kernel components
14:37<jelly>that part of kernel package name that looks like a bit of a version and a bit of an architecture is present in every module, eg. "modinfo ext4|grep vermagic"
14:38<jelly>vermagic: 4.9.0-8-amd64 SMP mod_unload modversions
14:39<nyoron>I see
14:40<jelly>kernel packager takes care that, as long as that does not change, any third party software (well, kernel drivers) that uses kernel public symbols won't need to be recompiled from source
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14:40<nyoron>and that vermagic is identical for all modules from /lib/modules/4.9.0-8-amd64
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14:42<nyoron>but a new version of linux-image-4.9.0-8-amd64 may bring new modules, which you won't be able to insert into the currently running 4.9.0-8
14:43<nyoron>is that correct?
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14:43<jelly>it may bring modules with the same name and same ABI
14:44<jelly>but when those modules use internal symbols, they can still be incompatible with previous kernel
14:45<jelly>a fixed ABI is a promise that no public symbols will change
14:46<jelly>that promise does not apply to in-kernel use
14:46<nyoron>does it mean that in-tree modules can use certain symbols that are not exposed to out-of-tree modules?
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14:46<jelly>they often do.
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14:48<nyoron>I thought that all modules were created equal
14:52<nyoron>jelly: > kernel should not expose ABI to userspace
14:52<nyoron>it looks like the kernel docs disagree
14:52<nyoron>https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/Documentation/ABI
14:52<nyoron>> This directory attempts to document the ABI between the Linux kernel and userspace
14:53<jelly>different meaning
14:53<nyoron>the term ABI is ambiguous
14:57<nyoron>I took your "kernel should not expose ABI to userspace" as a rejection of the idea that there is any ABI exposed to to userspace
14:57<jelly>one might think of an ABI as a clearly demarked border of a country, with crossing points in fixed places where people and goods can enter or leave, and rules what kind of transactions are legal across the border. Can't cross the border wherever you want.
14:58<jelly>we were talking about the border between a kernel build and other kernel modules. There's a different border between the kernel and userspace.
14:59<nyoron>yes, that's what my "I was wondering if you were talking about the ABI that is exposed to kernel modules vs. the ABI that the kernel exposes to processes" was about
15:01<nyoron>is there any way to make sense of kernel package names and their versions?
15:01<nyoron>it seems like the only pattern is that the first 2 numbers are always equal
15:01<jelly>versions are versions. They are largerly unrelated.
15:02<nyoron>and the 3rd one seems to be always 0 in the package versions
15:04<jelly>that's probably a relic from kernel renumbering
15:05<jelly>previously: 2.6.38-2-amd64
15:06<jelly>but when 2.6.40 became 3.0 somehow that third number in ABI remained
15:06<jelly>that's debian specific
15:08<nyoron>but the upstream still uses 3 numbers
15:08<jelly>if you build your own from source vermagic will probably just say 4.18.7 ... and not 4.18.0-stuff-build
15:09<jelly>the way debian's kernel is built in theory saves the end user a little work when patching up from 4.18.2 to 4.18.7
15:10<jelly>in practice it also adds some confusion
15:12<jelly>ubuntu has all but abandoned keeping ABI compat, they just differentiate by build ("amd64") but their kernels are like 4.4.0-123-amd64 if there were 123 versions of packages built from 4.4.*
15:13<jelly>it also adds some risk. If you only have one installed kernel, and the new one does not change ABI, upgrading basically wipes the only kernel _known_ to work on that machine
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15:15<nyoron>linux-image-amd64 usually ensures that you have at least 2 kernel packages installed
15:15<nyoron>but I get what you mean
15:19<nyoron>if Debian packages, say, 4.18.7 from the upstream, it names the package linux-image-4.18.0-x-amd64 and its version is set to 4.18.y-z, but there is no any logic behind or connection between x, y and z
15:20<nyoron>and there is even no easy way to learn that it's based on the upstream's 4.18.7
15:20<nyoron>is that right?
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16:11<nyoron>jelly: so, am I right?
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17:15<ttelford>Question for everybody: I’m getting syslog spam that’s more or less like:
17:16<ttelford>kernel: sdo sdo1 sdo2
17:16<ttelford>it just keeps listing the disk(s) and partitions over & over.
17:17<ttelford>Any idea what could cause that?
17:18<nyoron>do you get the same messages when you run dmesg?
17:19<sarnold>flaky usb cable? hub? device?
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17:31<sqrt{not}>!alioth
17:31<dpkg>Alioth was Debian's FusionForge server. All its contents have been moved to salsa.debian.org.
17:32<bremner>lol. hardly all.
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19:35<aidalgol>salsa?
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20:18<mnuhmnuh>https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa
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20:37<annadane>hmm is there any option for hexchat to scroll though the channel list quicker?
20:38<annadane>unfortunately doesn't seem like it
20:40<annadane>i guess there's just about no perfect way to channel switch via keyboard, i dunno how much better if at all irrsi/weechat does it
20:41<annadane>s/irrsi/irssi
20:43<abrotman>in irssi, it's `/win ##` .. pretty simple
20:45<annadane>a cool idea for an irc program would be to like, allow you to take some channels, group them according to your needs and then with vim style bindings switch between groups and switch between channels via shortcuts
20:45<annadane>dunno how well irssi does that if at all
20:45<abrotman>many plugins
20:46<annadane>or maybe i should get off irc and stop wasting time with this
20:46<annadane>oh, right, plugins. forgot about those
20:46<abrotman>https://scripts.irssi.org/
20:46<abrotman>not sure if it would be there
20:47<annadane>just silly how in hexchat if you control + pageup/down there's a half second delay before it starts moving
20:47<annadane>be nice if it were instant
20:49<annadane>i actually probably could ask over in github if that's behavior that can be changed
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20:54-!-foka is "Anthony Fok" on #lxde #emdebian #dot #debian-zh #debian-soc #debian-ruby #debian-reproducible #debian-olpc #debian-live #debian-js #debian-i18n #debian-glibc #debian #debian-fonts #debian-eeepc #debian-edu #debian-devel-changes
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21:12<mnuhmnuh>in irssi, /help aliases - /1 /2 /3 win1, win2, win3, esc-1 esc-2, and pg-forward/back keys by little cursor keypad work.
21:13<mnuhmnuh>er, /help alias
21:14<mnuhmnuh>sorry, that's the wrong command - /aliases
21:15<mnuhmnuh>er, /alias
21:15*annadane slaps mnuhmnuh around a bit with a large trout
21:18<mnuhmnuh>there wasn't anything else going on. async mode. when it's got to, it's got to.
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21:35<mnuhmnuh>what's the easy and correct way to turn off apparmor? i see i can "... do aa-complain /etc/apparmor.d/$f; ..." (https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor/HowToUse), but is there a systemctl disble apparmor or something?
21:37<annadane> /etc/init.d/apparmor stop i guess
21:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 364] by debhelper
21:38<mnuhmnuh>further down on that page, it mentions disable. accessing ...
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22:03<mnuhmnuh>after reboot, aa-status says "apparmor module is loaded. apparmor filesystem is not mounted." which tells me ...
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22:03-!-pnbo is "..." on #debian
22:06<mnuhmnuh>aa-status --enabled returns 3. error, i assume, so good.
22:06<pnbo>What is the process to get an app into the debian repo?
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22:10<mnuhmnuh>ah! aa-enabled - "No - disabled at boot." :-)
22:15<mnuhmnuh>pnbo: try #debian-mentors
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22:51<swyngaard>I need some help debugging an audio issue. The speakers on my laptop are playing audio at extremely low volume. Even if I set the volume to 150% it is still incredibly hard to hear. Audio is fine when using headphones. Audio from speakers play at normal volume when I boot into another OS. Alsamixer and pulsemixer reports everything is fine. I'm running MATE desktop 1.20.3-2. Any advice on where to start troubleshooting?
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23:00-!-stoffepojken is "Kristoffer" on #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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23:16-!-MarcosRC is "KVIrc 4.9.3 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
23:17<MarcosRC>hi
23:17<MarcosRC>I haven't co,piled a kernel in ages, and I am getting an error. I just got $ apt-get source linux
23:18<MarcosRC>$ cd linux-4.18.6/
23:18<MarcosRC>make nconfig
23:18<MarcosRC>changed one setting for virtualisation
23:18<MarcosRC>and on $ make deb-pkg
23:19<MarcosRC>I get
23:19<MarcosRC>dpkg-source: info: if patch 'debian/dfsg/arch-powerpc-platforms-8xx-ucode-disable.patch' is correctly applied by quilt, use 'quilt refresh' to update it
23:19<MarcosRC>dpkg-source: error: LC_ALL=C patch -t -F 0 -N -p1 -u -V never -E -b -B .pc/debian/dfsg/arch-powerpc-platforms-8xx-ucode-disable.patch/ --reject-file=- < linux-4.18.6.orig.mxJbje/debian/patches/debian/dfsg/arch-powerpc-platforms-8xx-ucode-disable.patch subprocess returned exit status 1
23:19<MarcosRC>dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-source -i.git -b linux-4.18.6 subprocess returned exit status 2
23:19<MarcosRC>make[1]: *** [scripts/package/Makefile:75: deb-pkg] Error 2
23:19<MarcosRC>make: *** [Makefile:1355: deb-pkg] Error 2
23:19-!-MarcosRC was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
23:19<annadane>saw that coming
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23:20<MarcosRC>any ideas?
23:20<annadane>last line we saw was make: *** [Makefile:1355: deb-pkg] Error 2
23:20<annadane>in future, use paste.debian.net
23:20<MarcosRC>oh, ok
23:20<annadane>also, it helps if you tell us what you changed
23:20<MarcosRC>that was the last line
23:21<MarcosRC>I disabled AMD Secure Encrypted Virtualization (SEV) support
23:21<annadane>there's a #debian-kernel, i guess they might be more helpful, but lurk in this channel too i guess
23:21<MarcosRC>that's all the changes
23:21<MarcosRC>thanks :)
23:24<annadane>not that #debian is the wrong place to ask but it's a bit of a specific question
23:24<annadane>people may or may not know
23:24<MarcosRC>no problem.
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23:25<annadane>also i don't have error codes memorized
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---Logclosed Fri Sep 14 00:00:49 2018