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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-09-15

---Logopened Sat Sep 15 00:00:50 2018
00:21-!-kamaraju [~oftc-webi@ool-43570e5e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
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00:22<kamaraju>The https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debtags/vocabulary.git link in https://wiki.debian.org/Debtags/Administration is broken. Does anyone know what the correct link is?
00:24<bremner>kamaraju: you might search on salsa.debian.org
00:29<kamaraju>bremner: Thanks.
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03:13<Yst>I need a C header file, but don't know what package it's in. How would I go about finding the package?
03:15<themill>!apt-file
03:15<dpkg>apt-file is a utility used to find which package owns a given file - or list files in a package - even if it is not installed: "aptitude install apt-file && apt-file update" ; then "apt-file search filename" to see a list of packages containing filename (can also use a regular expression; see man apt-file). You can also search online, ask me about <pdo>. See also <judd-file>, <auto-apt>, <dlocate>.
03:17<Yst>Sweet. Thanks themill!
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06:32<snulken>hey guys. im having trouble using my joypad (dualshock 4) but it shows up in lsusb but for some reason not in Steam - what gives?
06:39<snulken>Any knowledge on the subject? the controller works fine on my laptop without any configuration
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07:00<arto>snulken: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/how-to-use-a-ps4-controller-steam,news-24039.html
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07:09<snulken>@arto the controller does not even show up in big picture mode
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07:10<arto>snulken: do a web search yourself, that seams more like steam issue, which I have no experience
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07:19<snulken>found the solution for my joypad problem. It turns out that I needed a package called "steam-devices" that doesn't come with the steam package
07:21<arto>snulken: thats great!
07:21<pdo_fn14_>y
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07:23<arto>snulken: if you have time, you could add that info to debian wiki
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07:25<snulken>will do
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07:26<arto>good attitude snulken
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08:44<traumschule>are vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion and sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion officially supported?
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09:17<nyoron>traumschule: https://onion.debian.org/
09:18<nyoron>or do you want to know something else?
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09:51<traumschule>nyoron: Thanks! Nothing else :)
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11:49<Lord_aragorn>hi, I'm using kde on Thinkpad x230i with broken rightclick button, on Debian the right click occasionally self clicked, never happened on Windows 7, have disabled touchpad but still happening, any thought?
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11:54<arto>Lord_aragorn: micro switch has died, should not be too hard to repair in computer shop
11:56<arto>Lord_aragorn: do you have xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed?
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11:58<Lord_aragorn>arto: i havent install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics but i can disable the touchpad from kde settings
11:58<Lord_aragorn>i'll try installing it
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11:59<arto>Lord_aragorn: I thought the opposite, to remove it, just wonder what driver kde is using
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12:00<arto>Lord_aragorn: can you disable touchpad from the bios?
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12:01<Lord_aragorn>arto: there's no difference / additional setting on KDE setting, but as I type rn, the touchpad doesnt self click
12:01<Lord_aragorn>I'll try to type alot more to see if the problem fixed
12:02<arto>Lord_aragorn: that's partial solution, but if you can disable in the bios, kernel can't use it, and those ghost click should disappear
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12:03<Lord_aragorn>arto: never thought that way, hahahaha. will do that on next reboot, thx :D
12:03<arto>Lord_aragorn: every laptop I've use has option to disable touchpad in bios/uefi
12:04<arto>Lord_aragorn: ok!
12:04<arto>no problem!
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12:07<Lord_aragorn>I just happened to apt-get dist-upgrade and realize that my great firefox is replaced by quantum, I've got several addons unusable on FF and still havent find good replacement
12:08<arto>Lord_aragorn: that's just the way it goes, FF extensions do not work in quantum
12:09<arto>Lord_aragorn: but there are some available to quantum too in Debian repos
12:10<Lord_aragorn>arto: I think a lot of debian stable user is conservative, sad to see the old firefox get replaced, but no, it just upgraded to quantum
12:11<bremner>Lord_aragorn: we're all sad about mozilla's security support, but there's not much we can do about it
12:11<arto>Lord_aragorn: well, some guy on the forum said, that they had to blow out the school to save the village, 52 came to EOL, and Debian had to something
12:12<Lord_aragorn>using chrome / ium isnt feel right to me
12:12<arto>Lord_aragorn: but I agree that was quite steep, they could have warned smthin
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12:12<arto>Lord_aragorn: yea, I've used chromium since
12:13<arto>Lord_aragorn: those two are the only which get security support in Debian
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12:15<Lord_aragorn>i do realize that the new firefox is easy on ram and feel snappy
12:16<arto>Lord_aragorn: some had said that too, for me it feels slow, and some have reported also that
12:16<Lord_aragorn>but for long run, maybe m‏igrating to chrome is better solution
12:17<Lord_aragorn>or chromium
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12:42<piper>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TFcEXMcKrwoIAECIVyBU0GPoSmRqZ7A0VBvqeKYVSww/edit#gid=0
12:43<piper>firefox-webext-list ^^^
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12:45<piper>98% of my extentions that I used before version 50, I use now (ported) firefox version 64.0a1 (2018-09-15) (64-bit)
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12:55<nyov>piper: can you pastebin that?
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12:56<nyov>piper: so porting extensions to webextensions is functionally losslessly possible?
12:56<nyov>functionally losslessly. lol
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13:21<arto>nyov: generally you can do almost anything, when it is software
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13:29<nyov>arto: very funny
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13:30<nyov>I was asking because of what I read years? ago about the dumbing down of extensions
13:31<bremner>iiuc, some functionality of old extensions is not supported.
13:31<nyov>I mean, stuff that won't work anymore since it is no longer allowed access to some parts
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13:38<traumschule>a Tor Browser package would be awesome
13:39<arto>does Tor need own browser?
13:40<traumschule>(: no, but some users want privacy and don't trust mozilla that much (DOH, CF)
13:41<bremner>traumschule: you know about torbrowser-launcher (in contrib), right?
13:41<arto>traumschule: ok, here where I live police is active in Tor, and some arrestes have been made
13:42<traumschule>bremner: no, never tried that. does it work?
13:42<bremner>traumschule: mostly
13:43<bremner>there's a bit a rough ride at the moment with torbrowser 8, but it generally works well
13:43<traumschule>cool, will have a look, although i don't like to have contrib lingering around in my sources.list
13:44<bremner>that's a tradeoff.
13:44<traumschule>why is it in contrib actually?
13:44<bremner>because it downloads the upstream binaries, iiuc
13:45<traumschule>but it's all free software, no? Tor Browser is based on Firefox.
13:46-!-L0rD` [~L0rD`@0001f895.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: L0rD`]
13:46<traumschule>i mean most packages i install with apt come with binaries :)
13:46<arto>traumschule: but you can get sources too
13:47<arto>traumschule: thats open source
13:48<traumschule>arto: i love debian for that feature but i prefer not to compile everything myself. especially the webkit engine.
13:49<arto>traumschule: I understand, but that's not the point. You can get the binaries, but sources are available if you want them, that's the idea inf FOSS
13:49<traumschule>but tbh i'm nearly running Tor Browser from git for testing, so i don't need the package that urgently. would be comfortable for most though.
13:50<traumschule>so still i don't get why it's in contrib. it's not the license? just because it contains binaries of free software?
13:51<arto>traumschule: if you can't get sources, it will not bee open
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13:51<piper>nyov: (sorry had to step out) the link above (spreadsheet) is the firefox-webext-list, my ext list http://paste.debian.net/1042341/ only thing that is missing is tmp (tab mix) but is almost done plus
13:52*piper has to leave again
13:52<traumschule>arto: the sources are all in http://gitweb.torproject.org/tor-browser.git/
13:52<arto>traumschule: that's just why Gnu has sued many asian companies, who have put linux firmware to some box, but they were not willing to relase source, Gnu has won them all
13:54<arto>traumschule: about tor-browser I don't know, but about open source I guess I could write a lot
13:55<arto>traumschule: perhaps there is some library or something that prevents it to be in main
13:56<traumschule>ok, will take it to #tor then. thanks for the tip with torbrowser-launcher. that's amazing!
13:57<traumschule>(or ask Debian Privacy Tools Maintainers <pkg-privacy-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>)
13:58<traumschule>btw sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion seems to timeout
13:59<traumschule>it's a pity because the other debian onion services work and just security updates fail then :/
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14:05<TMM>hi all! I'm setting up a drbd/pacemaker/corosync cluster and I have some clustered services with their respective /etc directories symlinked to the drbd cluster. This works well but recently I tried to install an update and on the non-active clusternode dpkg didn't like that /etc/apache2 was a dangling symlink
14:05<nyov>piper: thanks!
14:05<TMM>I assume that my way of configuring this is thus well, stupid. I was wondering if someone had a better idea on how to have the service configuration files on the drbd filesystem without pissing off dpkg :)
14:07<nyov>if we could have config hives this wouldn't be a problem 8]
14:07<nyov>TMM: some form of rsync or fs-overlay perhaps
14:08<TMM>perhaps, that feels kind of brittle though
14:08<TMM>I guess I could just go drbd active/active
14:08<TMM>but that seems even grosserder
14:09<TMM>but yeah, maybe onionfs
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14:10<TMM>there has to be some kind of non-gross solution to this... right? :D
14:10<TMM>*looks hopefully at the sky*
14:10<nyov>if you're feeling bold, build a FUSE filsystem overlay for /etc that syncs when cluster is avail but has offline copy
14:11<traumschule>maybe https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-diversions.html works with directories
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14:11<traumschule>!divert
14:11<dpkg>Don't try to convince dpkg to overwrite files and don't start playing with "--force" options for dpkg. Instead, "divert" one of the files out of the way so that there is no conflict. See man dpkg-divert and also http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-diversions.html. Working with the package management system is much easier than trying to work against it.
14:11<TMM>traumschule, that sounds exactly like the ticket
14:11<TMM>traumschule, I love you
14:12<traumschule>just learned it some hours ago myself :)
14:12<nyov>are they not still dangling symlinks then? maybe I misundestood the issue
14:13<nyov>last sentence on that linked page: Do not attempt to divert a conffile, as dpkg does not handle it well.
14:13<TMM>nyov, they will still be dangling symlinks but dpkg won't care anymore
14:13<TMM>oh, it also doesn't work for directories
14:13<TMM>:'(
14:13<TMM>so close, and yet so far away
14:17<TMM>maybe going active/active on the drbd is actually the cleanest way
14:17<TMM>but then I'll have to mess with ocfs or gluster or something
14:18<sqrt{not}>TMM maybe you can use mount --bind
14:18<TMM>do...not...want
14:18<TMM>sqrt{not}, I guess I could bindmount from the cluster software, yeah
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14:22<TMM>I guess bind mounds then, that may the least problematic
14:27<TMM>well, time to redo all my cluster constraints again! :D
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14:27<Ahmedkh>:D
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14:35<nyov>how is that different from overlay? with bind mount, whole etc disappears when unmounted/cluster gone?
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14:47<TMM>nyov, but there will be an empty directory there
14:48<nyov>Well. if it wasn't /etc
14:50<nyov>i mean, i hope you're actually putting the cluster-configs elsewhere and bind-mount that. you're not thinking about having an empty /etc/ system folder, right?
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15:01<traumschule>TMM: i'd just divert those files you actually want to replace by a script.
15:04<arto>dir was the problem
15:06<traumschule>yep, but i doubt this is the best approach. or i'd bind only selected directories in /etc. but luckily i did not run into this problem yet :)
15:11<TMM>I did only bind mount certain directories
15:11<TMM>one per service
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15:15<nyov>Is there a backup location for old extensions from addons.mozilla.org?
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15:17<arto>nyov: I guess debian archives has those which were in repos
15:17<nyov>So when mozilla drops them, they will still be around for us? (palemoon, conkeror, ...)
15:17<bremner>well, presumably you actually want the source
15:17<nyov>well, debian is relatively limited -no offense-
15:17<arto>nyov: I admit that
15:17<nyov>I guess so?
15:18<bremner>so, check github?
15:18<bremner>and / or other hosting places I guess
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15:24<nyov>someone should maybe crawl addons. and archive that on GH (as someone thankfully did with that code hosting place that went down where i forgot the name)
15:29<nyov>Funny thing. If you add "Iceweasel/61.0" or something after your Firefox UA string, addons page will not allow you to download extensions "Only with Firefox—Get Firefox Now" :D
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15:30<nyov>Do any of the none-salsa ported anonscm repositories still exists? such as fglrx packaging?
15:31<nyov>I've been searching all over, I believe
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15:31<bremner>yeah, there's some read only archive. You might have to find the right mailing list post
15:32<nyov>So many dead links still looking up anonscm...
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15:32<nyov>(Also I hate Gitlab UI. sad change)
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15:33<nyov>bremner: which ML should I look at?
15:35<bremner>debian-devel-announce, if in doubt. But I found the url
15:35<bremner>https://alioth-archive.debian.org/
15:35<nyov>AWESOME
15:35<nyov>thanks a ton!
15:37<nyov>now that is what a project directory listing should look like xD ... not "Explore Gitlab [Filter by name...]"
15:37<bremner>*shrug*. Most reports from contributors are positive.
15:38<nyov>I prefer the simplicity of the UI in CGit ..I can search with Ctrl+F in the browser..
15:39<nyov>(and its just feels so much faster without loading all that JS stuff)
15:40<nyov>but yeah, Gitlab is a ton better over previous alioth FusionForge
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15:47<sqrt{not}>Yes you can bind mount only selected subdirectories, and the original contents (if any) will reappear if the bindmount is unmounted, i think
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15:48<nyov>sqrt{not}: oh true that. I forgot the old directory does not need to be empty
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17:00<nyoron>traumschule: CF?
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17:06<traumschule>nyoron: cloudflare
17:07<traumschule>i don't know if they changed their mind, but mozilla decided to partner with CF in july for DOH.
17:09<traumschule>https://blog.ungleich.ch/en-us/cms/blog/2018/08/04/mozillas-new-dns-resolution-is-dangerous/
17:09<nyoron>I see
17:10<nyoron>that's confusing because Cloudflare is Cloudflare, not CloudFlare
17:10<traumschule>oh, then i should say Cf, right.
17:11<nyoron>I've heard that the Tor Project and Mozilla want to work together to eliminate the need for Tor Browser
17:14<traumschule>if there is anything to it, they probably also need an agreement with Cf then. Do you think torproject will give it up so easily?
17:17<traumschule>nyoron: better take this to #tor for more insights :)
17:25<nyov>dns over http. roflcopter. dns isn't slow and big enough yet with dnssec. no, let's make it slower as well
17:27<nyov>wow. that would totally kill my split-horizon setups
17:28<traumschule>cf even offers 1.1.1.1 over tor
17:30<nyov>what kinda ip is that anyway? I see thats a CF ip range PTR one.one.one.one.
17:31<nyov>is that their DNS
17:31<nyov>server?
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17:40<traumschule>nyov: yes, they published it in their blog.
17:40<nyov>and this is in Firefox, now?
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17:40<nyov>that DoH?
17:40<nyov>"DNS over HTTPS, a new IETF standards effort that we’ve championed"
17:41<nyov>really
17:41<nyov>are people gonna let them get away with centralizing the worlds DNS?
17:42<nyov>google is *SO* gonna follow that if they see mozilla get away with it
17:49*jimpop cant wait for Debian to switch to CF's DNS servers /s
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18:37<nyov>jimpop: why would debian want to use CF DNS?
18:37<nyov>to better protect their servers reverse-ip lookups from malicious responses?
18:38<nyov>or does CF do zone hosting besides a caching resolver?
18:39<nyov>or perhaps you were making a joke
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20:42<blast007>nyov: the /s is a "sarcasm tag"
20:42<nyov>blast007: oh. thanks for the enlightenment :)
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