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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-09-17

---Logopened Mon Sep 17 00:00:53 2018
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01:54<nyov>yikes. has anyone ever used blockdevice overlays to test an mdadm softraid array restore with readonly disks, before doing it for real? haha. I did, it worked. just awesome
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02:16<pipedream>not one I've seen before: http://paste.debian.net/1042733/
02:19<andre__>Hello there. I think my ip subnet is blocked from accessing the Debian Wiki. So who can I contact to solve the problem?
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02:28<nyov>pipedream: happens to my qemu VM every once in a while
02:29<nyov>no idea whatsoever the reason of it
02:29<nyov>andre__: which domain specifically?
02:31<jm_>andre__: www team email or bug report
02:33<andre__>https://wiki.debian.org give me a 'forbidden'
02:34<jm_>in general it doesn't mean it's the page at fault
02:35<jm_>it can be something in between too
02:41<andre__>I can connect to https://wilder.debian.org wich seems to be the same host as wiki.debian.org
02:41<nyov>andre__: yes. wiki.debian.org should resolve to wilder.debian.org, specifically 82.195.75.112 and 2001:41b8:202:deb:6564:a62:52c3:4b70
02:43<nyov>and the certificate SHA1 looks to be F1:2D:C6:9A:8A:F7:28:F3:1D:91:7D:8B:EC:C8:55:97:BA:20:03:F4 - if you want to make certain
02:45<andre__>but i'm not allowed to see the wiki. Maybe server side blocklists from formerly abusive subnets?
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03:04<jm_>andre__: could be, so contact www team email or submit a bug report for wiki
03:04<jm_>andre__: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=wiki.debian.org;dist=unstable
03:14<nyov>andre__: looking at bug #725445 it seems "We have quite a large blacklist of IPs and address ranges for the
03:14<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/725445 in wiki.debian.org (closed): «wiki.debian.org: Sometimes blocked with 403 Forbidden, using Tor»; severity: normal; opened: 2013-10-05; last modified: 2014-05-06.
03:14<nyov>Debian wiki, set up to block spammers."
03:14<nyov>but they may have unblocked Tor nodes, so perhaps you'll have more luck via Tor
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03:38<danlii>I got the debian-security update of Thunderbird today, and apparently there is no more calendar. All I can find on Google is that Lightning is bundled with Thunderbird nowadays and shouldn't be a separate plugin, but there is a debian package with the same version number as Thunderbird (60.0~3), which just makes Lightning show up as an incompatible add-on. If I remove that, I see no Lightning at all. What am I doing wrong? :(
03:41<andre__>hm so it seems my entire subnet is blocked forever. Since there are no more ipv4 addresses small subnets are used widely, are sold and given back to ripe.
03:42<pdo_fn14_>danlii: I think it's normal, because some add-on will be disabled without bugfix.
03:43<pdo_fn14_>Will try newest thunderbird on my stretch.
03:49<cc>mozilla has changed the plugin API in the new thunderbird
03:49<cc>to a backwards-incompatible one
03:49<cc>unilaterally breaking hundreds of existing plugins/addons
03:50<jm_>just like with firefox
03:50<cc>I am very surprised that debian went along with this crap
03:50<cc>surprised and saddened
03:50<danlii>I thought Mozilla didn't run the Thunderbird project anymore.
03:50<cc>furthermore, the new api is not just incompatible, it's dumbed down
03:51<cc>and a lot of features from existing addons are simply impossible to implement
03:51<cc>even if authors did want to rewrite their plugins using the new API (which they should not be forced to)
03:51<danlii>Disabling extensions.strictCompatibility in the settings editor did the trick though.
03:52<cc>that might work temporarily
03:52<andre__>@danlii your calendar is still there. Try to reactivate it and make a new tab in your menu bar
03:53<danlii>andre__: Without working Ligthning, there is no calendar functionality to reactivate. But as I said, disabling the strict compatibility check for extensions works.
03:54<andre__>isn't it integrated and no more a addon?
03:54<danlii>andre__: Apparently it's not integrated, just bundled, ie pre-installed. It can be uninstalled and reinstalled like any other addon.
03:55<arto>cc: what would be better option?
03:55<andre__>thunderbird hurts so much these days/the last years
03:56<arto>cc:FF 52 came to EOL, no security support anymore, something had to be done
03:57<cc>iceweasel-like fork
03:57<cc>until mozilla comes to terms with its brain
03:57<cc>with which it seems to be in disagreement
03:57<arto>cc: that had different backround
03:57<arto>cc: I think it's mozilla we should blame
03:58<cc>yes, same as for proprietary logos, it's once again mozilla's fault
03:59<arto>cc:Debian is not responsible for what mozilla does
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04:00<cc>it's not
04:00<arto>cc: and there was not so much time to react, I think it was hardone for Debian devs
04:01<arto>cc: no good solution available
04:02<cc>if you say so
04:02<arto>cc: of couse these are opinions
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04:03<cc>mozilla does not listen to individual users
04:03<arto>cc: I agree
04:03<cc>however debian is a force
04:03<cc>that could influence mozilla
04:03<cc>tell it "hey, we will not ship this crap that breaks 90% of functionality"
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04:03<arto>cc: maybe not enough big afreall, go figure
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04:04<arto>cc: mozilla could say use it if you want
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04:09<nyov>I can't shed much tears for thunderbird, but mozilla's security policy is an atrocious case of feature-poisoning
04:09<nyov>'take the new sh** with the bugfix or don't get a bugfix'
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05:39<chele>arto what about icecat?
05:40<arto>chele: Debian has security support only for FF and Chromium
05:42<arto>chele: but you can use any browser you like
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05:43<chele>no question about it. but as 'alternative to mozilla' was mentioned, i am just inquiring.
05:48<arto>chele: I have no experience of icecat
05:49<arto>chele: aptitude says that it is not real packet
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05:50<chele>arto yes is not in. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/
05:51<chele>i tried once to compile it but i did not succeed. Maybe i need special hw.
05:51<arto>chele: chele, I know the origin, just have not used
05:52<arto>chele: I doubt that, if you can tell what you did, and error, maybe someone can help
05:52<chele>arto sure, i am aware. let's see if i can give it another try in the future...
05:53<chele>but i thought of including it as well cause maybe it has better policy as ff
05:53<arto>chele: maybe we will see as Debian packet in the future
05:54<arto>chele: absolutely, better policy
05:55<chele>arto right. let's see. :)
05:55<arto>chele: I guess that's all we can do
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07:01<arto>chele: icecat has ready binary packet as well, it run well on strecht
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07:06<chele>arto that's right. i wanted to see reqs. hence tried to compile it ..
07:08<arto>chele: no need to compile, just download, extract tarball and run
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07:18<arto>chele:if you need help, I'm ready
07:19<chele>arto thanks. i ping you in that case if so.
07:19<arto>arto: deal :)
07:20<arto>chele: deal :) sorry
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08:48<mahe>Hello guys. I just received an upgrade to thunderbird version 60 on my machine running stretch. I tried reinstalling lightning to no avail but the calendar won't show up in the GUI anymore - no menu entries or buttons whatsoever.
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08:50<blast007>mahe: perhaps the info here may be of help: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/calendar-updates-issues-thunderbird
08:51<mahe>blast007, tried that. The referenced preferences key does not exist for me.
08:53<blast007>do you have the package 'lightning' installed and is it version 60.0?
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08:56<blast007>'dpkg -s lightning' should show info about the installed version
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09:00<mahe>yes, I did explicitly reinstall it in version 60 via synaptic
09:00<arto>mahe: the exact same question was asked a few hours ago, let's if I can find the answers
09:03<mahe>Got it! The fix was quite simple: I just needed to install the lightning-l10n-* package for the same language as my thunderbird!
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09:05<arto>mahe: earlier the solution was to disabel strict compatibility check for extensions
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09:35<nyov>Not sure if this is of interest, but next month all non-webextensions will disappear from addons.mozilla.org/addons.thunderbird.net - make a backup of your favs if you care
09:35<nyov>"All legacy add-on versions will be disabled in early October, 2018. Once this happens, users will no longer be able to find your extension on AMO."
09:38<arto>nyov: my guess is that they will not work much longer than Oct/18
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09:38<nyov>arto: they might not work on regular thunderbird/firefox, but there are some forks out there where they still would
09:38<arto>just wonder if there is new CTO in mozilla, or what's happening
09:39<arto>nyov: backups is never bad idea
09:43<nyov>Yes. Some, even most may be on git or otherwise source-able. But perhaps not all. I shall see if I feel like doing a dump later on.
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10:29<nyov>oh I found this awesome service, i might have to write a bot for it: https://foaas.com/ %) Does #debian need another bot? ... *hides*
10:32<nyov>(uh, this was supposed to go to -ot, sry)
10:47<jimpop>on Stretch, what file type is /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages
10:48<petn-randall>jimpop: type "file not found".
10:50<jimpop>hmmm
10:50<jimpop>i needed py2.7 for something and I received this error:
10:50<jimpop>http://paste.debian.net/plainh/12f63ddf
10:50<jimpop>so I checked a 2nd system and there is no /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages
10:51<jimpop>yet python-minimal (2.7) is installed on that 2nd system
10:51<jimpop>quite odd
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10:52<jimpop>not to worry, the sym-link works... just an odd error that I've never seen b4
10:52<arto>jimpop: I have python2.7 installed (not minimal), and that dir contains, well python 2.7
10:53<themill>jimpop: a link to /usr/local? That sounds like some local modifications which are pretty broken
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10:54<jimpop>i create the symlink just to satisfy apt-get -f install python-minimal
10:54<jimpop>there's nothing in the target dir
10:54<jimpop>before or after the install
10:55<arto>jimpop: maybe you would need any hacks, if you purge minimal and install python2.7
10:56<arto>-f hmm
10:56<jimpop>arto: well, i wanted python2.7-minimal... and it was the package that recommened the "hack"
10:56<arto>and: I usually select the easy way
10:56<themill>nothing really wants python2.7-minimal
10:57<arto>jimpop: I usually select the easy way (I can't multitask)
10:57<jimpop>:-)
10:59<arto>python2.7 is dependency for many packages, odd you have not needed it
10:59<jimpop>it's not really needed on a server
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11:00<jimpop>at least not in Stretch
11:00<jimpop>it gets installed with the minimal installer, but it can be apt-get remove'd
11:01<jimpop>dev tools seem to want it tho
11:01<arto>jimpop: I'd think the opposite, but I don't have any server, so can't proove
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11:02<arto>jimpop: and of course servers and their function vary
11:02<jimpop>arto: "dpkg --list | wc -l" gives me ~290 pkgs on some servers i run
11:02<arto>jimpop: it's your server, you do what you want
11:02<jimpop>fewer wheels means fewer flat tires. ;-)
11:03<arto>jimpop: thats also security point, install only those apps you need
11:03<jimpop>exactly
11:04<jimpop>now if unattended-upgrades could work with python3... i'd be happy
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11:06<jimpop>themill: "python2.7 : Depends: python2.7-minimal"
11:06<jimpop>^^ just fyi
11:07<themill>yes, that's the only package that is allowed to do so; it's not a package for the user to install
11:08<themill>There are lots of things that known to fail if only -minimal is installed.
11:08<nyov>this reminds me of a question I had; will python-* become moved to python2-* sometime, and python3 eventually maybe be python-* in package name?
11:09<jimpop>themill: python depends on python2.7 which depends on python2.7-minimal
11:09<themill>correct
11:09<themill>nyov: the former but not the latter
11:09<jimpop>so litteraly anything that depends on python will depend on python2.7-minimal
11:09<arto>nyov: my experience python* => python 2, python3 = p3
11:10<nyov>themill: okay, thanks
11:10<themill>jimpop: yes, but the order of unpacking is relevant
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11:10<jimpop>yep
11:10<themill>I'm telling you "don't do that" and why, and you seem to be agreeing with me and yet ignoring that advice...
11:11<nyov>well, at the speed that py3 releases get out, we should be reaching py4 soon, right? :D
11:11<themill>egadsno
11:11<jimpop>themill: not at all
11:11<arto>nyov: might be already, but using stable
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11:20<yang>What kind of error is "Error: Timeout was reached" with apt ? http://paste.debian.net/plainh/c0a2004a
11:21<arto>yang: network timeout , try again
11:21<arto>yang: is your net ok?
11:22<sarnold>busted firewall DROPping packets rather than REJECTing packets perhaps?
11:29<nyov>busted? I love DROPping packets
11:29<nyov>*g*
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11:36<yang>arto: yes its ok
11:36<arto>yang: apt error still remains?
11:37<arto>yand: for me apt works ok
11:38<arto>yang. ...
11:38<yang>Yes, first time, I encounter this error
11:38<yang>ftp.at.debian.org
11:39<yang>and security.debian.org
11:39<arto>yang, maybe try different mirror
11:40<arto>yang: try changing at to de
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11:44<yang>on another server ftp.at works just fine
11:44<yang>on the faulty server i can traceroute to ftp.at and security
11:44<arto>yang: ok, server may be down, that's happened to me once
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11:45<arto>yang: I just seleceted the neighbouring country server, so I could update
11:45<volando>Hi. Is Debian CUT dead? https://cut.debian.net/
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11:46<volando>it did seem like intereting
11:47<bremner>I think it's pretty dead. But you could work on it
11:48<bremner>golly. 2012.08 is some time ago
11:48<petn-randall>volando: Note that everything on debian.net (as opposed to debian.org) are pet projects of Debian developers, that may or may not ever take off.
11:48<volando>bremner: it is probably not a 1-person effort...
11:49<bremner>joeyh, who was the driver for that, resigned from Debian. So it would take someone else to drive it.
11:50<themill>step 1 is to actually agree what the project is trying to do
11:50<bremner>I think it's predicated on a healthy testing-security team, which might not be the case now
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21:10-!-bill-auger is "bill-auger,,," on #debian
21:12<bill-auger>hello - i just installed debian9 i386 and the intel driver wont load
21:12<bill-auger>and my fonts are incredibly small - any ideas?
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21:13<bill-auger>lspci sees the card correctly and identifies it should use i015
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21:15<bill-auger>dmesg show it with all zeros "agpgart-intel 0000:00:00.0: Intel 845G Chipset"
21:16<bill-auger>the x log shows errors - most notably:
21:16<bill-auger>EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory
21:16<bill-auger>EE) open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory
21:16<bill-auger>would appreciate any advice while i investigate ths
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22:03<traumschule>do you know a package for fault injection fs like https://github.com/jrandall/petardfs
22:04<traumschule>at best in user space, but not necessarily
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23:39-!-bill-auger is "bill-auger,,," on #debian #lxde
23:39<bill-auger>FWIW i installed linux-libre and the driver loads correctly
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 18 00:00:54 2018