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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-09-22

---Logopened Sat Sep 22 00:00:00 2018
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02:57<ejr>hi guys; i have been using trisquel until recently and now switched to debian 64 bit (before i used 32 bit trisquel). now every time i do something mildly cpu-intensive or just run several programs, the computer freezes, which i assume is due to overheating
02:58<ejr>i used to be able to run other OSes (arch, devuan) just fine and it has enough cpu+ram for what i am doing, so what could be the reason?
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02:59<ejr>i would like to have a look at the syslog or kern log but obviously after freezing and restarting the old one is not there anymore
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03:01<ejr>actually, just saw in te syslog of one of the freeze sessions that there is nothing conspicuous
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03:26<valdyn>why would it be overheating? Modern CPU just throttle if they heat up
03:33<ejr>the laptop gets very hot
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04:08<mceier>are there https debian mirrors ?
04:09<TigerbotHesh>I thought most of the http mirrors would have offered https as well, just try it out
04:11<mceier>ftp.task.gda.pl doesn't offer https
04:13<TigerbotHesh>you're right, after trying a few polish ones I've found that ftp.icm.edu.pl does though
04:13<mceier>thanks
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04:15<TigerbotHesh>wow, I find it strange that literally no other mirror in Poland offers https
04:15<mceier>and frp.icm.edu.pl does not have Release file, lol
04:15<mceier>ftp*
04:15<TigerbotHesh>then you're outta luck
04:16<TigerbotHesh>it's no big deal though, as I think the packages are verified against a signature anyway in the event of a man-in-the-middle attack
04:17<TigerbotHesh>also there's always apt-transport-tor if you're trying for privacy
04:18<mceier>I'm concerned about just mitm ;)
04:18<TigerbotHesh>well yeah, sigs then will keep you safe
04:18<TigerbotHesh>love thy apt-key
04:20<mceier>oh, ftp.icm.edu.pl works.. I just also had to change the path to /pub/Linux/debian
04:20<mceier>thanks a lot :)
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06:21<pikaro>hi! is there a tool that simplifies your dependency tree? e. g. I have both build-essential and gcc installed, probably from an earlier attempt to fix some issue. that's unnecessary and clutters the "manually installed" overview so I'd like to fix it automatically.
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06:45<arto>pikaro: I'm not sure what you mean, but you can use: aptitude why [package]
06:48<pikaro>I'd like to reduce the list of manually installed packages to the minimal number that would be required to keep the system as-is. in the above example, I don't need to have gcc installed automatically because it's already automatically installed by build-essential
06:49<pikaro>*have gcc installed manually
06:50<pikaro>I'm aware that that's not possible to do with certainty so some intervention would be required to prevent the main application dangling from a plugin dependency etc, but it'd be a helper in quarterly housekeeping
06:53<arto>pikaro: there is apt autoremove, which removes packages not needed
06:55<arto>pikaro: and I don't undestand that either: if package is pulled as dependency, and you try to install that, apt will say it's already installed and exits
06:55<pikaro>it appears I'm still being unclear. I want something that goes through the list of manually installed packages, checks if another manually installed package depends on each of them, and marks them automatically installed in that case.
06:57<arto>pikaro: to me seems you are trying to invent wheel, apt will do all that
06:59<pikaro>I'm not aware of apt automatically marking a manually installed package as automatically installed in any case, that'd be very error-prone
06:59<arto>pikaro: you could write a script if you want. I don't know any 'tool', because it would be waste of resources
06:59<pikaro>yeah I'll probably do just that
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07:05<arto>pikaro: why should manually marked package be marked as automatically installed ?
07:06<pikaro>because having it manually installed when another package depends on it is potentially unnecessary
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07:09<arto>pikaro: potentially unnessary, but no harm, how it is a problem?
07:09<pikaro>because it makes it harder to see what I don't need any more
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07:11<nyov>pikaro: I do what you are doing, manually, in the aptitude interface
07:11<nyov>(what you are trying to do)
07:12<pikaro>nyov, yeah that's what I do as well, but it's an annoying and time-consuming task
07:12<nyov>indeed
07:12<nyov>so if you find a solution, I'd be eternally thankful
07:17<nyov>pikaro: when I do this I just shift-A on a whole subsection (e.g. libs) and then look for the packages I need to make manual again to keep/fix the rest
07:17<nyov>sorry. shift-M
07:18<pikaro>again, my process exactly :) but this appears to be apretty simple shell script to write, at least with no validation etc
07:18<pikaro>almost done actually
07:19<nyov>pikaro: please do share? !!!
07:21<nyov>I don't mind if it looks ugly or so
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07:33<SpeedyG>thats what I always say when I look in the mirror on an early morning ;)
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07:38<izibi>hi, if I want to shrink a mdadm raid5 by one drive, is there any way to select which drive gets removed?
07:38<izibi>or does anyone know a better place to ask questions about mdadm?
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08:22<Cerebral>Hello.
08:22<Cerebral>dist-upgrade logs are in /var/log/dist-upgrade right?
08:24<at0m>i'd expect 'apt dist-upgrade' logs in /var/log/apt
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08:25<Cerebral>history and term logs are in there only.
08:25<Cerebral>I saw term but it doesn't have the thing i look for
08:28<Cerebral>To say what i need i wanna see the list of packages that were removed ith the last uprade.
08:28<Cerebral>upgrade.
08:33<peter1138>It'll be in history
08:33<Cerebral>peter1138: Nope.
08:33<Cerebral>BTW i am using Buster.
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08:49<petn-randall>Cerebral: /var/log/apt/history.log contains all that info.
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08:57<pikaro>nyov, https://pastebin.com/EVgM1k6K seems to work for me
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08:57<pikaro>nyov, but needs manual sanity checking because I couldn't find a tools whose output for reverse depends is easily understood...
08:58<pikaro>nyov, plus it doesn't search recursively because that would require a lot more processing
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09:06<nyov>pikaro: I'll test that! Are you putting it as a GIST or somewhere for future improvement contributions?
09:07<pikaro>all it does is clumsily parse the output of apt-cache rdepends, so it's not something I'd be proud to share and develop
09:08<nyov>hahaha
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09:11<nyov>sure, using graph theory to work out the tree structure and best choices might be sweet, but until such a solutions comes by, it's better than nothing
09:12<nyov>somehow hooking into aptitude's dependency resolution and scripting that would be my best bet for this
09:13<nyov>after all, it's already being done there
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09:17<nyov>What happened to pages such as aptitude.alioth.debian.org? Were they dropped entirely with FusionForge, or is there a forward?
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09:27-!-WhilelM is "Christophe Moille" on #debian
09:27<WhilelM>hello
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09:28<WhilelM>where can I ask about a failed onion server ?
09:28<WhilelM>tor+http://sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion/debian-security seems failed for me
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09:33<nyov>pikaro: this took entirely too long to run (hahaha), however: I think I will replace the `apt-cache rdepends --installed --important` with `apt-cache rdepends --installed --no-suggests --no-enhances` because recommends are good enough reverse deps for me
09:33<nyov>pikaro: unless you didn't do that for good reason?
09:35<pikaro>nyov, no, no particular reason, just not necessary for my use case
09:35<nyov>ok
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09:36<nyov>I don't pull recommends automatically, but once they're there, I want them auto
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09:42<nyov>WhilelM: sorry, I tried but couldn't find out. If this is an official mirror, try the debian-mirrors mailing list
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09:48<WhilelM>noettore: it's an official one https://onion.debian.org/ security.debian.org
09:48<WhilelM>oups sorry for bad hilight
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09:49<WhilelM>nyov: it's an official one https://onion.debian.org/ security.debian.org
09:49<WhilelM>thx
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11:44<ejr>what could be the reason for debian constantly crashing when i copy large files? it just powers off as if someone had unplugged the power cable...
11:45<arto>ejr: Debian stable?
11:47<ejr>yes
11:47<ejr>arto
11:48<arto>ejr: sound like hw problem, I would check logs, and run smarctl tests for hdd
11:53<arto>ejr: version 2, sounds like hw problem. I would check logs, and run smartctl tests for hdd.
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12:17<ejr>arto: thanks, will try
12:17<arto>ejr: no problem. Ask more if any need.
12:20<ejr>currently doing the tests with smarctl
12:28<WhilelM>ejr: did you check memory usage during filecopy ?
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12:33<krauserii>anyone here uses i3 gaps on debian stretch?
12:33<arto>krauserii: this was asked on forums.debian.net, i3 gaps is not in Debian repo
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13:10<mnuhmnuh>ejr: my guess would be overheating. lm-sensors might help with that, *-sensors-applet, xsensors, ...
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13:23<mnuhmnuh>ejr: ... and looking further into it (via gkrellm) i see there's such a thing as (x)mbmon: "... monitor hardware status using your motherboard's sensors." cool.
13:29<arto>mnuhmnuh: what would heat up during file transfer?
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13:34<mnuhmnuh>arto: cpu, of course, harddrive likely, possibly bus. wanna bring a win* for workgroups box to its knees? copy a file to a floppy disk. :-P kid you not.
13:36<arto>mnuhmnuh: file transfer is not so heavy for linux kernel, though in the past I had mobo's which ide driver went broken
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13:39<mnuhmnuh>arto: we don't even know what was used to do the copy. i wouldn't put it past a nautilus file manager thingy to foul up such a simple task.
13:43<arto>mnuhmnuh: true, possibilities are many, pc faults can be tested only one cause at time
13:45<arto>google has announced (they should know) that optimal temperature for hd is 40 degrees Celsius grade
13:46<WonderingWonder>Hey :) Is it possible to use static IP when host is connected via DHCP? (Virtual) Debian>router>router I cant admin DHCP on.
13:47<arto>WonderingWonder: I guess it is, but what point is use DHCP if static IPs?
13:47<mnuhmnuh>WonderingWonder: if you control the dhcpd that's doing the config, then yes.
13:48<arto>WonderingWonder: in that case I would not use static ip
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13:50<mnuhmnuh>arto: i'd think optimal temp. for hd is dependant upon hd model.
13:50<arto>mnuhmnuh: google has used *many* hds
13:53<mnuhmnuh>arto: if i was google, i'd already know the optimum for _everything_ there was to know. rdb tech. is pretty old tech now.
13:53<WonderingWonder>Im connected to neighbours router no1 has access to, trying to configure my server with static ip, failing to do so, so I wondered if manually adding ip to dhcp on my router will finally do the trick
13:53<arto>mnuhmnuh: they announced that info years ago
13:54<arto>WonderingWonder: try asking what is the DHCP address pool
13:54<arto>WonderingWonder: static IP should be outside that
13:55<arto>WonderingWonder: but it is not diffcult to change net config use DHCP
13:55<mnuhmnuh>WonderingWonder: if you control the router, you can tell it to use the same dhcp ip over and over, never changing.
14:00<WonderingWonder>Thanks for effort
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14:04<nyov>arto: 40 deg. for HDD? really? ohmyIhavetoscaledownmycooling
14:05<arto>nyov: statistics.... if you have 1000 hds, then mean would be close, my gḱrellm: sda 40,0 :)
14:14<mceier>does anyone know how to disable fast boot from linux (debian testing) on lenovo laptop or enter bios from grub ?
14:15<arto>mceier: you enter bios before grub
14:15<mceier>I could enter bios before grub, but due to fast boot... I no longer can
14:15<mnuhmnuh>that's odd. "mbmon -A" (as root) screams "This program needs "setuid root"!!" the manpage needs work too ("rpm" == "rounds per minute"; should be revolutions).
14:15<mceier>I thought I disabled it before installing debian
14:15<arto>mceier: try find manual, whayt key combo at boot lets you to bios
14:16<mceier>oh right...
14:17<arto>mnuhmnuh: english is not every ones mother tongue
14:18<arto>mnuhmnuh: file bug report! (;
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14:25<arto>mnuhmnuh: without (;, that 'setuid root' really is odd, just tried
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14:27<mceier>arto: so lenovo has something called 'novo button' inside one of the ports... when pressed it boots the laptop and allows enter the BIOS. Thanks
14:27<arto>mceier: good you solved it!
14:28<mnuhmnuh>arto: i'm kind of not surprised since the deb maintainer had to create the manpage.
14:29<mnuhmnuh>none provided by upstream.
14:29<arto>mnuhmnuh: yes, I know the policy requires that, but that program needs setuid root for root, oh boy
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14:31<pikaro>is it safe to source .profile (in turn sourcing .bashrc) from .xsessionrc? obviously, neither does anything stupid, they just set up a few env variables, aliases etc, not much more than the default (debian) ones.
14:31<pikaro>or phrased differently: why is it the default that the WM gets a different environment than the shell?
14:32<mnuhmnuh>pikaro: why would a wm need shell aliases? they're only relevant to a command line.
14:33<arto>pikaro: (no hard feelings!), I think that was explained in Debian reference
14:33<pikaro>mnuhmnuh, I would like to run my ~/bin scripts and aliases from i3's exec and dmenu
14:33<pikaro>without maintaining .xsessionrc separately
14:34<pikaro>arto, I've used this OS for a long time and never read that... maybe I should
14:35<mnuhmnuh>pikaro: yes, you should. well worth the read.
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14:36<arto>pikaro: I think it's good info for any Debianist, bit old, but most part is still valid
14:36<pikaro>I thought they meant man pages when they said rtfm
14:36<mnuhmnuh>no, deb. ref. is updated for each stable release.
14:36<arto>mnuhmnuh: not any more
14:37<mnuhmnuh>crap.
14:37<arto>mnuhmnuh: install and read, I did
14:38<mnuhmnuh>not disagreeing, disappointed. :-(
14:38<mnuhmnuh>deb. ref. _should be_ updated for each stable release. :-P
14:39<arto>mnuhmnuh: good debate is always refreshing :)
14:39<arto>mnuhmnuh: I agree, are you voluntary?
14:40<pikaro>ok I only found: "/etc/profile", "~/.profile", "/etc/xprofile", and "~/.xprofile" files are executed as a part of gdm3 start up process
14:40<pikaro>so I assume it's probably OK then
14:41<arto>pikaro: I guess you can select which files are exectuded
14:41<pikaro>just a lightdm choice it doesn't source it
14:42<arto>pikaro: I was thinking, at least in xfce you must allow separately any script you want to run
14:44<mnuhmnuh>pikaro: .xsession* usage is pretty confusing nowadays. use fluxbox, and you're better off with minimal or no .xsession. use mate/gnome, and .xsession is useful. kde, dunno.
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14:45<mnuhmnuh>i3, mystery to me, never went there.
14:46<pikaro>well as far as I could gather, lightdm sets up the environment for the session by executing .xsession, and i3 simply uses what it gets. more complex DEs etc probably load other scripts after they start
14:46<pikaro>.xsessionrc, not xsession
14:47<arto>also I know nothing about i3
14:47<pikaro>I'm just gonna try what happens
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14:48<mnuhmnuh>pikaro: /etc/X11/*Xsession* controls this. it's complex. it does handle both ~/.xsession and ~/.xsessionrc
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14:49<pikaro>ok at least i3 and dmenu find the missing executables now, not sure if it broke anything
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14:59<mnuhmnuh>even the wiki page https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession is confusing. "If the user has a ~/.xsessionrc file, read it." what does it mean by "read" when all the subsequent options say "run" it?
15:01<mnuhmnuh>when i see "read", it means parse or interpret, not run or execute.
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15:05*mnuhmnuh and why the !@#$ doesn't mbmon know how to find a sensors port on my "ASUSTeK model: Benicia" mboard, demmit?!?
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15:06<arto>mnuhmnuh: why are you so irritated today? /offtopic
15:08<mnuhmnuh>arto: not irritated; sorry if i come off that way. i'm intense or focused, not angry.
15:09<arto>mnuhmnuh: did you remember to setuid root? :)
15:09<p3t0r>Hi there :) I'm having trouble booting my system after dist-upgrading to debian 9. My old 3.16.0 kernel boots just fine, but the new 4.9.0-8 won't. I'm using the "recovery mode" in GRUB (I think it's all about the "single" parameter, and without "quiet"?), but after the password prompt (I have an encrypted root partition), it loads a short period (i can see some services being started) and then I get a black screen. Can't g
15:09<p3t0r>o any further from there on (only the SysRq keys help to reboot). I wasn't able to get any helpful log output. Any help is appreciated :)
15:09<mnuhmnuh>arto: good point, tx.
15:09<arto>p3t0r: what Debian version?
15:10<arto>p3t0r: oh sorry, you told it
15:11<p3t0r>arto: 9.5, upgraded from an old 8.x
15:11<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: nvidia?
15:11<arto>p3t0r: if you go to forums.debian.net you'll find loads of threads of similar symptom
15:12<p3t0r>mnuhmnuh: Yes. This was my first guess as well. But is it really a problem when *not* starting X? (As it should be with the "single" param on boot?)
15:13<p3t0r>arto: I will take a look, thanks :)
15:14<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: i don't know how nvidia does things, never having used them. i'd expect them to be able to fall back to usable text console like anything else, but ...
15:15<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: may depend on nouveau vs. nvidia-driver (whatever) and how you installed it.
15:16<p3t0r>mnuhmnuh: Do you think it's worth trying to blacklist these modules to see if I can at least perform a console login?
15:17<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: go with arto's suggest, the forums prob. sort this out easily.
15:17<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: don't know nvidia, sorry. i'd expect so, but ...
15:19<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: worth trying, yes! you got nothing now, nothing to lose.
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15:23<p3t0r>mnuhmnuh: Hehe, fair enough, I'll give it a try :)
15:24<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: from what i have learned, nv needs to be closely matched w kernel ver. 3.X --> 4.X == mismatch, re-install driver.
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15:28<arto>p3t0r: nouvea is working fine on my desktop Debian, latest kernel, nvidia gpu
15:28<arto>nouveau
15:32<peter1138>Just slowly compared to the proprietory drivers.
15:33<somiaj>nv is quite dated, I would use nouveau instead.
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15:34<mnuhmnuh>sorry, by that "nv" i meant "nvidia", not "nv" driver. sorry to confuse.
15:35<arto>peter1138: I can watch stream video at full screen using nouveau
15:37<peter1138>I should hope so.
15:37<mnuhmnuh>arto: sure, and if you ask annadane, nouveau crashes any time it's stressed (aka gaming, steam, ...).
15:38<arto>mnuhmnuh: I don't know anything about annadane system, but I have not had any problemes at all
15:39<arto>mnuhmnuh: I've also played
15:40<mnuhmnuh>arto: as i say, i've not used them, just telling what i've seen.
15:40<mnuhmnuh>s/seen/read/
15:41<arto>mnuhmnuh: yes, I can only tell about my experience. Must ask annadane next time.
15:42<p3t0r>Oh well. I blacklisted the nivida driver, didn't help. Uninstalled it, same result. Now I've blacklisted nouveau as well, and here I am, logging in to a shell :>
15:42<arto>p3t0r: so you have no graphics driver
15:43<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: success! you should be able to update the driver to match current kernel now. :-)
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15:44<mnuhmnuh>arto: are you one of those "no gui == no video" people? shame.
15:46<mnuhmnuh>Arrowmaster: i was using *nix long before X Window showed up.
15:46<mnuhmnuh>arto, not Arrowmaster ^^, sorry.
15:48*mnuhmnuh damnned autocomplete! :-|
15:53<p3t0r>arto: That was the plan :D
15:54<p3t0r>mnuhmnuh: Indeed :) And it seems the clue was really just to blacklist nouveau (and well, keep it blacklisted even after installing and configuring the nvidia driver; can't remember that I had to do that in the past, but well).
15:55<p3t0r>So yeah, (mostly) everything works as intended. Saved my day :-) Thanks for the help, guys :*
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15:57<mnuhmnuh>snoopydance!
15:58<mnuhmnuh>i'm a dog, btw.
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16:01<mnuhmnuh>p3t0r: i don't know what'll happen to nvidia driver should you install new kernel (bpo offers 4.17), but you need to track both together, methinks.
16:08<p3t0r>mnuhmnuh: If installed the driver with DKMS support, so that should be no problem. And if so, if got the install file at hand and can just build a new module :) My problem really was not being able to access any shell at all to do exactly this :/
16:09<p3t0r>In this case ... good dog, I guess? ;-)
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16:18<p3t0r>Bye :-)
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16:54<mnuhmnuh>so, to fix "I updated kernel, and now no gui! help!!!", sol'n == blacklist nouveau, then update nvidia driver (assuming dkms). pita! why wasn't nouveau auto-blacklisted when nvidia driver was installed?
16:54<mnuhmnuh>just curious.
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17:19<EmleyMoor>I just added new udev rules to try to get a USB device into a state where kvm/qemu can have write access, but it does not seem to be taking effect. It's done the same way as for another device which does work. What do I need to restart to make the rule kick in?
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17:23<EmleyMoor>Ah, typo found
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17:35<sqrt{not}>mnuhmnuh: FWIW my stretch backport kernel is 4.18.6-1~bpo9+1 (2018-09-13)
17:35<mnuhmnuh>how's this supposed to work: i'm in /usr/share/doc/mbmon and i click on ReadMe.gz, which fires up engrampa (archive mgr?) which then uses pluma to open the result, which works, but sheesh! zless would suffice, why's ff-esr bothering with engrampa and pluma instead of just zless in terminal?
17:36<mnuhmnuh>sqrt{not}: good to know, tx.
17:38<mnuhmnuh>or, how to change that ff-esr func., i mean.
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17:48<mnuhmnuh>"w3m file:///usr/share/doc/mbmon/ReadMe.gz" does it automagically.
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23:24-!-Ekho [~Ekho@00026100.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:24-!-Ekho is "Ekho" on #debian #qemu #ceph
23:32-!-ttelford [zncsrv@2601:681:4100:8981:44dd:acff:fe85:9c8e] has quit [Quit: AAAGH! IT BURNS!]
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23:32-!-ttelford is "Troy Telford" on #debian #debian-voip #debian-next #debian-ipv6
23:33-!-deltam [~deltam@00026634.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:33-!-deltam is "David Margerison" on #debian-offtopic #lxde #oftc #qemu #virt
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23:36-!-thurin [thurin@thurin.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:36-!-thurin is "thurin" on #oftc #moocows #linode
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23:45-!-phebus [~phebus@c-68-57-68-149.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #debian
23:45-!-phebus is "Jonathan Phebus" on #debian
23:55-!-bluewater [~nautics-c@000127d1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
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23:56-!-UKn0Me is "Aidhan" on #oftc #moocows
23:56-!-UKn0Me [~UKn0Me@00027d52.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
---Logclosed Sun Sep 23 00:00:01 2018