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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-09-25

---Logopened Tue Sep 25 00:00:04 2018
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00:04-!-hekatei is "none" on #debian
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00:05-!-silver is "silver" on #linux #mm #neurodebian #debian-offtopic #debconf-cambridge #debian-mysql #debian-kde #debian-science #debian-next #debian #debian-meeting
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05:36<WonderingWonder>Hey, my webpage isnt aviable and i cant encrypt the connection.DNS are set according to hosting provider, do I need to aquire free ip from ISP?
05:38<petn-randall>WonderingWonder: I'm not sure how this is related to Debian. But it seems you need to read up on networking basics, or ask your hoster for support.
05:46<WonderingWonder>Wow. Any tip how to spot which files/config etc are linked to something if not specified in manuals? utfg ofc
05:50<itd>tip: provide details
06:01<WonderingWonder>My best move is using 'ls +guessing dirs based on mans etc. Surely I can search system wide, but my system always crash. Is "ls" mby with arguments best option here?
06:01<petn-randall>WonderingWonder: Start by describing your actual problem you're trying to solve. Don't spare with details. Those are missing so we can help you.
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06:07<traumschule>realized that the more sources i have in sources.list the bigger the chance i miss security upgrades because apt refuses to continue when one source fails. is there something like fallback sources i can define in sources.list?
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06:11<peter1138>Do you find sources often fail?
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06:12<traumschule>lately yes :)
06:12<traumschule>but i'm more worried about unattended upgrades
06:14<traumschule>so for the last case when security's onion service failed i'd like to have the option to set the clearnet domain as faillback
06:15<peter1138>Is there a particular reason to use tor to get packages?
06:15<traumschule>yes
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06:16-!-wompa is "Tomas Heikkilä" on #debian-offtopic #debian #linux #debian-next
06:30<WonderingWonder>Ok, hmm on desktop I have Debian 9.5 Stable with gpu R700 HD4830. As I know only open drivers are possible.Is downgrading/switching to buntu studio best bfu option? :/
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06:50<petn-randall>WonderingWonder: Are you a robot? Because all your messages don't seem to have any relation to each other.
06:56<WonderingWonder>Google asked me the same thing.
06:57<petn-randall>!ask
06:57<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
06:57<petn-randall>!smart questions
06:57<dpkg>Asking the right question can be hard, and effective communication is easier if you give us extra information. https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html has some suggestions. The key points are: tell us what you actually did and what you were trying to achieve, provide the full command and full output in a <pastebin>.
06:57<petn-randall>WonderingWonder: You can use the above two factoids as guides how to ask good questions here. ^^^
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07:14<WonderingWonder>petn-randall:Thanks ^^ I want imo good drivers, I "cant" have them. These are suboptimal.Getting legacy proprietary drivers in xubuntu studio was matter of click in software@updates. Studio was great,dont wanna go to ubuntu tho. Last supported Debian 7
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07:16<towo^work>fglrx and good driver, hahaha
07:17<towo^work>the free radeon is way better nowdays than fglrx on linux ever was
07:25<WonderingWonder>Thats is possible, but depends. This card was always' thrash but tweaking it with this driver on ported games diffrent than chess reminds me old times
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12:05<peter1138>Hmm, dist-upgrading thunderbird wants to remove the enigmail extension. Where can I find more information about this?
12:06<petn-randall>peter1138: See #909000.
12:09<peter1138>Thanks.
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12:10<Synthea>How can I restart plasma? It's freezed
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12:17<arto>Synthea: does ctrl-alt-f2 open terminal?
12:19<Synthea>arto yes
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12:20<arto>Synthea: login there, and try: ps aux | grep plasma
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12:20<KotH>good evening!
12:22<KotH>I have a slight problem. i just did a fresh install using the current stable netinstal image (just a minimal install). switched the repo from stable to testing. replaced systemd by sysv and continued with the setup.
12:22<KotH>now, for some weird reason, udevd is still insisting on predictable network interface names, but i cannot figure out where to disable it
12:23<KotH>there are no udev rules at all, there is no /etc/systemd/network/ directory etc
12:23<petn-randall>"still"? udev and systemd are not related.
12:23<KotH>i compared all files in /etc i could think of that might be related to the problem to one of my other machines (also debian/testing, but installed years ago)
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12:24<petn-randall>!interface names
12:24<dpkg>Starting with <stretch>, network interface names have changed from the previous convention of eth0, eth1/wlan0, wlan1 to names based on the device vendor or driver. This has some upsides and some downsides. For more information and options, see https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ or ask me about <dpni>.
12:24<KotH>udev and systemd are related... udevd became a part of systemd about 6-7 years ago. you can run udevd without systemd, but there are certain quirks
12:24<petn-randall>KotH: You can switch it back with the above. ^^^
12:24<KotH>petn-randall: please read again what i wrote
12:24<KotH>petn-randall: i already tried all of those!
12:25<KotH>petn-randall: none of them helps
12:25<KotH>petn-randall: also none of them are present on any of my other machines
12:25<petn-randall>KotH: What did you try exactly?
12:26<KotH>i created a etc/systemd/network directory and did dthe `ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/network/99-default.link` as described. didnt help (note: that file is not present on any of my other machines)
12:26<petn-randall>KotH: That will of course only work with systemd. Did you try the others yet?
12:26<KotH>i checkded for the persistent network names udev rule: not present (no udev rules at all, to be exact)
12:27<KotH>net.ifnames=0 ofc does not work,becuase there is no systemd to interpret it
12:27<petn-randall>I would expect udev to read it.
12:27<KotH>apparently it doesnt
12:27<KotH>also: there is no net.ifnames=0 on any of my other machines either
12:28<KotH>i grep'ed for any file containing ifname, link,... in /etc, but there is nothing
12:28<petn-randall>KotH: If you still have the "old style" names there, it's because they likely have /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules.
12:29<arto>!debian-next
12:29<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
12:29<KotH>petn-randall: oh...
12:30<KotH>petn-randall: looks like that's the source of my confusion
12:30<petn-randall>KotH: If you don't have a copy, here's mine: http://paste.debian.net/1044361/
12:31<KotH>petn-randall: thanks, i have enough old installations around to copy it
12:31<KotH>petn-randall: thanks!
12:31<petn-randall>KotH: It should be fairly straight-forward to adopt it for your case: Add the <MAC ADDRESS> at the right spot, the KERNEL= is what it's named before, and NAME= is wait it will be renamed to.
12:31<KotH>petn-randall: jupp.. done that many times over the years
12:32<petn-randall>KotH: You're welcome! And good luck with running buster with sysv init. Seems like an interesting project. :)
12:32<KotH>petn-randall: 99.99% works
12:33<KotH>petn-randall: even apparmor works fine :)
12:33<mnuhmnuh>petn-randall: maybe you'd like slackware. they still use lilo.
12:34<KotH>the only thing i have not yet figured out is, that on my desktop at home, cups fails at binding to port 631... but nc -l -p 631 works
12:34<KotH>something somehow is interfering there, and i dont know what
12:35<petn-randall>KotH: If you happen to do sysadmin work, I'd take a look at systemd, it made my every day work 10x easier.
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12:38<KotH>petn-randall: i'm only doing sysadmin work in my free time. and sofar systemd always looked like abstractions upon abstractions hiding what's really going on
12:38<KotH>petn-randall: and because i only do that stuff in my free time, i cannot just spend a few weeks getting to learn systemd intimately so that i'm confident enough to troubleshoot it if the need arises
12:39<petn-randall>KotH: Not really. If you every wrote init scripts, you have to do all the error handling yourself, and I've seen tons of buggy init scripts in my life. With systemd, it's 5 lines in a systemd unit. And it takes care of everything: Logging, properly tearing down any forked processes, restarting the service if needed, etc.
12:39<bremner>it's a tradeoff. There's effort to learn systemd, and IMHO more effort to avoid it
12:39<petn-randall>s/every/ever/
12:39<bremner>(in Debian)
12:40<Cerebral>Hello.
12:40<KotH>petn-randall: i'm not worried about the init part of systemd, that's easy enough. it's all the (black) magic it does around that
12:40<Cerebral>I am haing a bunch of errors in Debian 10 in python3 folders.
12:40<KotH>bremner: so far, avoiding systemd was very little efford
12:40<Cerebral>Some scripts say syntax errors and shit.
12:40<petn-randall>!debian-next
12:40<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
12:40<KotH>bremner: just a couple of packets that need to be pinned
12:41<petn-randall>Cerebral: ^^^
12:41<Cerebral>And whatever i do i cant fix it
12:41<bremner>KotH: OK. I just know that as a package maintainer, sysvinit problems are "patches welcome"
12:41<KotH>bremner: as i wrote above, 99.99% works with systemd out of the box
12:41<KotH>bremner: i know
12:41<Cerebral>petn-randall: Ah ye i forgot
12:42<KotH>bremner: i am in close contact with some of the packet maintainers that have work together with the init system exactly because of that. and all of them have been very helpful so far
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13:15<mnuhmnuh>please suggest alternatives to brasero for burning dvd s.
13:16<arto>mnuhmnuh: wodim (cli), xfburn
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13:32<flips>hm, what's trying to setup a simple loghost, rsyslog.conf seems to have changed (maybe that's the wrong approach in this systemd era?) Man page mentions the classic $InputTCPServerRun 514, $InputTCPServerRun 514 and similar for UDP. The provided resolv.conf has module(load="imtcp") and $InputTCPServerRun 514, but I seem unable to have rsyslog listen on 514 ...
13:34<mnuhmnuh>arto: add https://wiki.debian.org/BurnCd?highlight=%28wodim%29#Burn_the_image_file_to_CD.2C_DVD.2C_or_BD
13:34<petn-randall>flips: So ... what error messages do you get? Or does everything work fine?
13:35<mnuhmnuh>syntax for multiple alternatives supplied.
13:36<flips>petn-randall: If I just uncomment those module(load and $InputTCP/UDPServerRun lines, it doesn't listen on 514, no errors
13:37<flips>If I try to add the (old?) syntax from man, I get error: Could not create tcp listener, ignoring port 514 bind-address (null).
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13:39<arto>mnuhmnuh: they are all there, what should I add?
13:40<mnuhmnuh>odd. "aptitude search dvd+rw-tools" finds nothing, while "apt show dvd+rw-tools" works.
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13:47<arto>mnuhmnuh: but aptitude show dvd+rw-tools works, search does not find, as you said
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13:50<mnuhmnuh>apt search dvd+rw-tools fails too
13:52<mnuhmnuh>dpkg -l works
13:52<dpkg>No packages found matching works
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13:57<arto>mnuhmnuh: even quoting \+ does not help apt/aptitude searhch, no hits
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13:58<itd>apt search 'dvd\+rw-tools'
13:58<arto>itd: tried that too, no success
13:59<itd>works for me
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13:59<arto>itd; sorry, works if quoted plus ''
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14:00<itd>happy to hear that :)
14:00<arto>itd: :)
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14:19<BlaBla>Hi, I would really like to trust a Repo How do I find the key ID for the public key?
14:20<arto>BlaBla: have you installed debian-archive-keyring ?
14:20<BlaBla>All the documentation I've found lists the cmd syntax with the pub key id, but none of the instructions include how to find the identifier to specify
14:20<BlaBla>Yes
14:20<jhutchins_wk>BlaBla: What repo?
14:21<petn-randall>BlaBla: Which repo are you talking about? The keys for the debian repos are already shipped with your installation.
14:22<BlaBla>The repos listed in my sources.list file are:
14:22<petn-randall>!paste
14:22<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net or https://0bin.net/ | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
14:23<BlaBla>http://paste.debian.net/1044377/
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14:25<jhutchins_wk>BlaBla: You have security twice, and the last one appears to have an artifact at the end.
14:25<petn-randall>BlaBla: That's not a complete stretch sources.list, you must have made a mistake while editing.
14:25<petn-randall>!stretch sources.list
14:25<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list".
14:25<petn-randall>Note that line #2 is wrong, and #5 is missing "main" and "non-free"
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14:52<flips>petn-randall: the issue was actually just netstat not reporting like I (and various docs) expected ... Got it all working :)
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14:56<BlaBla>The paste debian.net has the contents of my sources.list file and the output from apt-get update. Shouldn't apt-get update download the release.key and Inrelease. Is the Inrelease file also a key?
14:56<BlaBla>I would appreciate if someone would give it a look?
14:56<BlaBla>http://paste.debian.net/1044383/
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14:58<arto>BlaBla: lines 9 & 12, both have main
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15:04<BlaBla>Hi, When I go to the manpage the syntax sequence deb option1 option2 messes me up. Option doesn't tell me anything and is much different from the examples. I copied line 12 directly from the man page.
15:05<mnuhmnuh>BlaBla: mine: https://paste.debian.net/1044384/
15:10<mnuhmnuh>see the man page "As an example,"; you didn't read far enough.
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15:12<BlaBla>I copied the example to the sources,list file. Main isn't supposed to be listed twice?
15:12<mnuhmnuh>okay deb.debian.org/debian-security is new.
15:13<mnuhmnuh>use mine as drop-in replacement. works.
15:15<mnuhmnuh>main, contrib, and non-free are separated. depends what you want.
15:16<BlaBla>I just did and apt-get update lists a working output and just sits there and blinks at me.
15:16<mnuhmnuh>apt-get upgrade
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15:19<mnuhmnuh>assuming you meant you got back to a prompt? as in update worked?
15:20<BlaBla>no, I did a cntrl break to stop the process.
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15:22<BlaBla>When I imported the repo archive.asc files into synaptic I copied each key into its own text file. I received invalid may be corrupted? Is that normal?
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15:23<BlaBla>Great, it appears apt-get update doesn't like the sources.list?
15:24<mnuhmnuh>never used synaptic, only seen it. :-)
15:25<mnuhmnuh>egrep -v '\''^#|^$'\'' /etc/apt/sources.list --> paste.d.o
15:25<BlaBla>https://paste.debian.net/1044389/
15:26<BlaBla>Is that how asc files are created? Copying the key into a text file?
15:27<BlaBla>I didn't use egrep I opened the sources file in nano and copied.
15:27<mnuhmnuh>from what you pasted, should work, some other problem to track now.
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15:30<mnuhmnuh>paste update output.
15:31<jhutchins_wk>Might want to ping deb.debian.org or browse it.
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15:34<guardian>hello, I have a beginner question. I'm reading https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList
15:34<guardian>why is it https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList without an ending slash but http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ ?
15:34<guardian>in the sources.list example
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15:38<mnuhmnuh>i think they're optional.
15:38<adlpaf>Good evening! Someone whi can help me to install an Atheros Wireless Adapter?
15:39<mnuhmnuh>adlpaf: lspci | grep Network
15:40<adlpaf>mnuhmnuh: Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express)
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15:41<adlpaf>mnuhmnuh: I've tried using ndiswrapper, ath9k driver and installing wicd package
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15:42<BlaBla>https://paste.debian.net/1044391/
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15:47<guardian>and I have another beginner question please: can the following URL http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ubuntu1804/x86_64/ be broken down into distribution and components?
15:47<mnuhmnuh>BlaBla: edit your souces, change all https to http.
15:48<mnuhmnuh>adlpaf: have you installed firmware? i guess no.
15:49<BlaBla>I did. I'm back to the original issue now.
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15:50<itd>dpkg: tell guardian -about dontbreakdebian
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15:53<itd>guardian: Please have a look at that nice wiki page. :) (In case that doesn't address your question, please don't hesitate to ask again (and preferably describe your goal).)
15:53<guardian>will do
15:53<guardian>thanks
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15:55<BlaBla>How does a person usually receive an Inrelease file?
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16:00<bremner>apt downloads it?
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18:04-!-caravel is "caravel" on #whonix #monkeysphere #https-everywhere #debian-mozilla #debian-es #debian-next #debian-live #debian
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18:06-!-jimpop is "Jim Popovitch" on #debian
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18:10-!-eightyeight is "eightyeight" on #debian
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18:11-!-semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian-br #debian #bitlbee
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18:17-!-WonderingWonder is "realname" on #debian
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18:17-!-WonderingWonder is "realname" on #debian
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18:35-!-dragon12 is "dragon12" on #privacytech #debian-offtopic #debian
18:38<jimpop>test
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19:48-!-jimpop is "Jim Popovitch" on #debian
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19:50-!-WonderingWonder is "realname" on #debian
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20:17-!-gruetzkopf is "gruetzkopf" on #debian #gc-linux #msys2 #kernelnewbies #lowRISC #debian-next #llvm-ppc64
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20:17-!-musca is "musca" on #debian #virt @#testerfeso #siduction-manual @#siduction-armhf #siduction-admin @#shebang #scripting #qemu #oftc #moocows #lxde #kernelnewbies #frickelplatz #ecryptfs #debian.de-offtopic #debian-perl #debian-next #debian-mozilla @#debian-libreoffice #debian-ipv6 #debian-fedmsg #debian-derivatives #debian-cinnamon #debian-blends #bash #aptosid
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20:17-!-tyrefors is "Martin Tyrefors Branden" on #debian
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20:17-!-Phylos is "Olivier Raulin" on #debian
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20:17-!-Kamilion is "I am kamilion. But you knew that, didn't you." on #debian #moocows #linode #debian-next #tardigans
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20:17-!-phunyguy is "Phuny Guy" on #debian
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20:17-!-JakeSays is "Jake" on #debian #virt #qemu
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20:17-!-hv9- is "Vin." on #debian #linuxfs #ext4 #debian-next #debian-in #
20:19<silver>Is there a way to see what mailing lists i'm subscribed to?
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20:37-!-edeak is "realname" on #debian
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20:40-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-next #debian-science #linux-rt #otr
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20:43-!-LeuX is "Leo Settele,,," on #debian
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20:49-!-yohnnyjoe is "yohnnyjoe" on #debian
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20:55-!-sim590 is "Simon Désaulniers" on #debian #debian-quebec #debian-next
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20:58-!-acald3ron is "Armando" on #linode #debian-next #debian-mx #debian-es #debian
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21:11-!-pablo_34 is "Pablo" on #debian
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21:12-!-sunilmohan is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #freedombox-ci #debian-js #debian-reproducible #debian-in #debian #pere #freedombox #debian-diaspora #freedombox-dev #debian-webapps #debian-blends
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21:13-!-Jing is "Kafei" on #debian-next #debian
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21:26-!-finlstrm_ is "Michael J. Ford" on #debian #debian-next
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21:42-!-nyov is "nyov" on #oftc #debian #luakit
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21:42-!-mceier is "Mariusz Ceier" on #debian
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21:47-!-yohnnyjoe is "yohnnyjoe" on #debian
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21:55-!-yohnnyjoe is "yohnnyjoe" on #debian
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22:11-!-yohnnyjoe is "yohnnyjoe" on #debian
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22:16-!-leonard is "Leonard Peking" on #debian
22:17<leonard>hi
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22:22-!-Isolatio1 is "Isolation" on #debian
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22:31-!-jhutchins_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
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22:41-!-nivaldo is "realname" on #debian
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22:43-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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22:46<rjsalts>silver: for a particular instance of mailman, maybe, in general, no
22:47-!-andres [~andres@217.115.131.45] has quit [Quit: -]
22:47<silver>ok thanks
22:47-!-GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:4380:2fe0:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:50-!-itd is now known as Guest1441
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22:50-!-itd is "itd" on #debian
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22:51-!-ttelford is "Troy Telford" on #debian-voip #debian-next #debian-ipv6 #debian
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22:53-!-itd is "itd" on #debian #debian-suedwest #debian-rust #debian-welcome
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23:08-!-bnw is "realname" on #dot #debian-zh #debian #debian-next
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23:10-!-hbautista is "Héctor" on #debian-es #archlinux #oclug #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
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23:16-!-PityDaFool is "Eddie J Carswell II" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
23:16-!-PityDaFool is now known as AfroThundr
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23:36-!-andres is "Andres Freund" on #mm #llvm-build #kernelnewbies #iovisor #debian
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23:42-!-jimpop is "Jim Popovitch" on #debian
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23:48-!-technoid_ is "Tech-noid" on +#Corsair #debian #linode
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 26 00:00:06 2018