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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-10-04

---Logopened Thu Oct 04 00:00:10 2018
00:00-!-claw [~quassel@triple6.org] has joined #debian
00:00-!-claw is ",,," on #debian
00:04-!-hekatei [~hekatei@200116b826fe1e00651ff43a1e6fd69d.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #debian
00:04-!-hekatei is "none" on #debian
00:05-!-dboehmer___ [~quassel@p5DD9DD06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
00:05-!-dboehmer___ is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
00:07-!-Logg [~Logg@c-69-137-114-70.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #debian
00:07-!-Logg is "realname" on #debian
00:07-!-saki [~Thunderbi@185.245.87.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:07-!-dboehmer [~quassel@p5DD9E3CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:13-!-BadAtComputer [~BadAtComp@2a01:b5c0:5:4000::1ef7] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:25-!-level7 [~quassel@31.44.17.250] has joined #debian
00:25-!-level7_ [~quassel@31.44.17.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:25-!-level7 is "Paolo" on #debian
00:32-!-unixpro1970 [~unixpro19@c-67-168-1-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:37-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:37-!-jm_ is "." on #debian #debian-ops
00:38-!-zyley [~zyley@00027792.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:38-!-zyley is "zyl" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
00:38-!-unixpro1970 is "unixpro1970" on #kernelnewbies
00:38-!-unixpro1970 [~unixpro19@c-67-168-1-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
00:41-!-Darcidride [~Quentin@194.2.202.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:42-!-twb [~twb@203.7.155.117] has joined #debian
00:42-!-twb is "Trent W. Buck" on #debian #debian-au
00:42-!-themill [~stuart@themill.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:42<twb>Why is "idlelib" part of libpython3.5-stdlib for python 3.5, but part of idle-pythonX.Y for other versions?
00:44-!-dselect [~dselect@dselect.bot.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:44-!-RaphGro [~raphgro@2a02:8070:8788:3900:6bb5:a7e4:a1d8:ed] has joined #debian
00:44-!-RaphGro is "Raphael Groner" on #debian
00:45-!-themill [~stuart@themill.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:45-!-themill is "Stuart Prescott" on #debian-reproducible #debian-policy @#debian-ops-private #debian-ops #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-multimedia #debian-lists #debian-kde #debian-java #debian-i18n #debian-dpkg #debian-devel-changes #debian-debsources #debian-au #debian-apt #debian
00:47-!-ToBeFree [uid51591@id-51591.tooting.irccloud.com] has joined #debian
00:47-!-ToBeFree is "ToBeFree" on @#freiwuppertal #debian @#InfiniteAdventures
00:49-!-ToBeFree [uid51591@00019d36.user.oftc.net] has quit []
00:51-!-_Sugar_and_Sweet [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has joined #debian
00:51-!-_Sugar_and_Sweet is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
00:51-!-Makkah_ [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has joined #debian
00:51-!-Makkah_ is "realname" on #Qubes_OS #privacytools.io #oftc #moocows #debian-next #debian-in #debian
00:52-!-_Sugar_and_Sweet [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has quit []
00:52-!-Makkah_ [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has quit []
00:53-!-sagax [~sagax@213.138.71.146] has joined #debian
00:53-!-sagax is "sagax" on #debian #Qubes_OS
00:58-!-acald3ron [~acald3ron@189.202.74.174.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:59-!-hele [~hele@88-115-22-153.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:11-!-cc [~cc@000269eb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:11-!-cc is "cc" on #debian-next #debian
01:12-!-piper_ [~piper@98.4.199.14] has joined #debian
01:12-!-piper_ is "Ralph Hokanson" on #debian-derivatives #debian-next #debian
01:16-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has joined #debian
01:16-!-nzhuk98 is "Nazar Zhuk" on #debian
01:16-!-piper [~piper@00012f3a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:18-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has quit []
01:18-!-Guest495 is now known as toolz
01:19-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has joined #debian
01:19-!-nzhuk98 is "Nazar Zhuk" on #debian
01:20-!-Daaku [~amit@103.219.229.74] has joined #debian
01:20-!-Daaku is "Amit Khare" on #debian
01:20-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has quit []
01:20-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has joined #debian
01:20-!-nzhuk98 is "Nazar Zhuk" on #debian
01:25-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined #debian
01:25-!-drzacek is "realname" on #linux-rt #debian-next #debian
01:29-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
01:29-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has joined #debian
01:29-!-nzhuk98 is "Nazar Zhuk" on #debian
01:34-!-nzhuk98 [~nazar@209.58.129.97] has quit []
01:41-!-redlegion [~x@crap.redlegion.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:49-!-Daaku [~amit@103.219.229.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:52-!-redlegion [~x@crap.redlegion.org] has joined #debian
01:52-!-redlegion is "Legion von Rot" on #debian
01:58-!-Daaku [~amit@45.251.48.143] has joined #debian
01:58-!-Daaku is "Amit Khare" on #debian @#ubuntu-budgie
01:58-!-dnl [~daniel@000215b5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:00-!-RaphGro [~raphgro@2a02:8070:8788:3900:6bb5:a7e4:a1d8:ed] has quit [Quit: Please remember your own message. It'll be read as soon as possible.]
02:01-!-Alam_Squeeze [alam@rigginstereo.lawarias.srb2.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:01-!-joshua [~Joshmeist@70.59.185.190] has joined #debian
02:01-!-joshua is "realname" on #debian
02:02-!-Osmel [~ota@pool-100-8-8-251.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:02-!-Osmel [~ota@pool-100-8-8-251.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
02:02-!-Osmel is "Osmel Torres Alonso" on #debian-es #debian-l10n-spanish #debian-devel-es #debian
02:03<joshua>Hey
02:03-!-Alam_Squeeze [alam@rigginstereo.lawarias.srb2.org] has joined #debian
02:03-!-Alam_Squeeze is "Alam Arias" on #debian-ipv6 #gc-linux #debian-next #bitlbee #debian #linux
02:04-!-joshua [~Joshmeist@70.59.185.190] has quit []
02:04-!-dnl [~daniel@unable-to-package.org] has joined #debian
02:04-!-dnl is "Daniel Baumann" on @#its-basis-systems @#its-linux-systems @#its-linux-sysadmin @#bfh-linux-users #progress-linux #open-infrastructure @#127011 #sisu #debian-openstack-commits #debian-derivatives #debian-elts #debian-next #debian #debian.ch
02:06-!-misterjack [jack@0002633c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: foo bar brattttzzzzzzz]
02:07-!-misterjack [jack@voyager.le-hosting.de] has joined #debian
02:07-!-misterjack is "Richard Hering" on #debian
02:09-!-tdy [~tdy@00016994.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:10-!-chele [~chele@00022067.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:10-!-chele is "chele" on #debian-next #debian
02:10-!-chele [~chele@00022067.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:10-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@LFbn-STR-1-2-85.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
02:10-!-nowhere_man is "Pierre Thierry" on @#concatenative #emacs #git @#erights #lisp #debian
02:12<sagax>hi
02:17-!-df787 [~df787@49.red-88-0-68.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
02:17-!-df787 is "df787" on #osm-es #debian
02:18-!-tdy [~tdy@00016994.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:18-!-tdy is "tdy" on #debian
02:19-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-02-70-24-204-122.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
02:19-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian-live #reproducible-builds #privacytech #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian-apt #debian
02:21-!-semeion is "semeion" on #bitlbee
02:21-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:23-!-pipedrea1 [~pipedream@ns1.aims.ac.za] has quit []
02:23-!-pipedream [~pipedream@kingfisher.aims.ac.za] has joined #debian
02:23-!-pipedream is "Jan Groenewald" on #debian-welcome #debian-ubuntu #debian-printing #debian-next #debian-derivatives #debian
02:25-!-hugoShaka [~quassel@mugen.shaka.xyz] has joined #debian
02:25-!-hugoShaka is "Shaka" on #debian
02:26-!-mnemonic [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:26-!-twb [~twb@203.7.155.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:26-!-tdy [~tdy@00016994.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:28-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:28-!-ketil [~ketil@ns.imr.no] has joined #debian
02:28-!-ketil is "Ketil Malde" on #debian #blug
02:29-!-inethering [jack@voyager.le-hosting.de] has joined #debian
02:29-!-inethering is "Richard Hering" on #debian
02:29-!-BoneTone [~BoneTone@c-73-137-92-216.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: What's this button do?]
02:30-!-ejr [~no@80-108-134-69.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #debian
02:30-!-ejr is "no" on #tor-project #suckless #debian-offtopic #debian
02:30-!-misterjack [jack@0002633c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
02:30-!-inethering is now known as misterjack
02:31-!-BoneTone [~BoneTone@c-73-137-92-216.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #debian
02:31-!-BoneTone is "Join #Brewmaster to ask questions of probrewer." on #debian #qemu @#Brewmaster
02:31-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2]
02:33-!-edeak [~edeak@a85-139-171-160.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #debian
02:33-!-edeak is "realname" on #debian
02:35-!-ansel [~ansel@tmo-104-160.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:39-!-df787 [~df787@49.red-88-0-68.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:40-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-02-70-24-204-122.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:41-!-BoneTone [~BoneTone@c-73-137-92-216.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:43-!-BoneTone [~BoneTone@c-73-137-92-216.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #debian
02:43-!-BoneTone is "Join #Brewmaster to ask questions of probrewer." on #debian #qemu @#Brewmaster
02:45-!-Ruebezahl [~Alf@p200300C04F064600626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
02:45-!-Ruebezahl is "realname" on #osm-de #skolelinux.de #debian
02:47-!-df787 [~df787@84.78.18.56] has joined #debian
02:47-!-df787 is "df787" on #osm-es #debian
02:51-!-ao2 [~ao2@host241-94-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
02:51-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #vcs-home #debian #cell
02:53-!-Ganneff [~joerg@ganneff.noc.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:53-!-Ganneff is "Joerg Jaspert" on #oftc-status #help #debian-lists #spi #oftc #oftc-staff @#german #debian
02:57-!-Ruebezahl [~Alf@p200300C04F064600626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:59-!-kelsoo1 [~kelsoo@host-2-99-192-216.as13285.net] has joined #debian
02:59-!-kelsoo1 is "kelsoo" on #debian
03:04-!-kelsoo [~kelsoo@host-92-6-234-135.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:06-!-Ruebezahl [~Alf@p200300C04F064600626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:06-!-Ruebezahl is "realname" on #debian #skolelinux.de #osm-de
03:07-!-df787 [~df787@84.78.18.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:07-!-df787 [~df787@84.78.18.56] has joined #debian
03:07-!-df787 is "df787" on #osm-es #debian
03:08-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined #debian
03:08-!-drzacek is "realname" on #linux-rt #debian-next #debian
03:08-!-awal1 [~awal1@modemcable251.103-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:09-!-MichaH [~hessler@pD9524D78.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:09-!-MichaH is "Michael" on #debian-kde #debian
03:10-!-tdy [~tdy@00016994.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:10-!-tdy is "tdy" on #debian
03:12-!-arto [~arto@dsl-hkibng41-567307-250.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
03:12-!-arto is "arto" on #debian
03:15-!-dimitrius [~dimitrius@109.201.143.217] has joined #debian
03:15-!-dimitrius is "dimitrius" on #debian
03:16-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:16-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
03:16-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian
03:17-!-dimitrius [~dimitrius@109.201.143.217] has quit []
03:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 453] by debhelper
03:21-!-brondif [~brondif@dgd-9kyhkp94v077vwz9t-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
03:21-!-brondif is "Alfred Neuman" on #debian
03:22-!-oo_miguel [~miguel@89-75-127-111.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
03:22-!-oo_miguel is "miguel" on #debian
03:24-!-jmux [~jan-marek@194.113.41.246] has joined #debian
03:24-!-jmux is "Jan-Marek Glogowski" on #debian
03:25-!-chele [~chele@2a02:8106:1:f900:faca:b8ff:fe2f:8499] has joined #debian
03:25-!-chele is "chele" on #debian-next #debian
03:26-!-brondif [~brondif@dgd-9kyhkp94v077vwz9t-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has left #debian [WeeChat 1.9.1]
03:32-!-df787 [~df787@84.78.18.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:34-!-df787 [~df787@216.red-88-8-2.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
03:34-!-df787 is "df787" on #osm-es #debian
03:35-!-Ruebezahl [~Alf@p200300C04F064600626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:36-!-meti [~meti@00019a84.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:36-!-meti is "meti" on #debian-offtopic #debian-it #debian
03:38-!-level7_ [~quassel@31.44.17.250] has joined #debian
03:38-!-level7_ is "Paolo" on #debian
03:38-!-redlegion [~x@crap.redlegion.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:43-!-level7_ [~quassel@31.44.17.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:45-!-level7 [~quassel@31.44.17.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:47-!-BCMM [~BCMM@00026736.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:47-!-BCMM is "BCMM" on #oftc #linux #debian-kde #debian #debian-next
03:53-!-sagax [~sagax@213.138.71.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:56-!-redlegion [~x@crap.redlegion.org] has joined #debian
03:56-!-redlegion is "Legion von Rot" on #debian
03:59-!-tdy [~tdy@00016994.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:00-!-edeak [~edeak@a85-139-171-160.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:05-!-Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:06-!-Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined #debian
04:06-!-Human_G33k is "realname" on #debian #debian-debsources #debian-desktop #debian-devel-changes #debian-mozilla #debian-meeting #debian-toolchain #debian-next #debian-mobile #suckless
04:07-!-dimitar3 [~dimitar@84.45.99.125] has joined #debian
04:07-!-dimitar3 is "dimitar" on #debian
04:08-!-alephnull [~alephnull@node-bt.pool-125-27.dynamic.totbb.net] has joined #debian
04:08-!-alephnull is "Alok G Singh" on #debian-next #debian-in #moocows #debian #bitlbee
04:10-!-Eryn_1983_FL [~Eryn_1983@c-73-24-115-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
04:11-!-redlegion [~x@crap.redlegion.org] has quit [Quit: Ded.]
04:11-!-redlegion [~x@crap.redlegion.org] has joined #debian
04:11-!-redlegion is "Legion von Rot" on #debian
04:11-!-alephnull_ [~alephnull@node-126b.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:13-!-Eryn_1983_FL [~Eryn_1983@c-73-24-115-100.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #debian
04:13-!-Eryn_1983_FL is "erin" on #debian
04:15-!-dimitar3 [~dimitar@84.45.99.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:15-!-asdf [~vasa@109.228.191.249] has joined #debian
04:15-!-asdf is "aasdf" on #debian
04:17-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:17-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
04:20-!-dimitar3 [~dimitar@62.232.85.2] has joined #debian
04:20-!-dimitar3 is "dimitar" on #debian
04:21-!-dimitar4 [~dimitar@84.45.99.125] has joined #debian
04:21-!-dimitar4 is "dimitar" on #debian
04:21-!-asdf [~vasa@109.228.191.249] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
04:23-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:39ad:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:26-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:26-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #oftc @#yugiohjcj #qemu #debian
04:26-!-lostone [~lostone19@185.44.76.118] has joined #debian
04:26-!-lostone is "Cadavrin Puturescu" on #debian #debian-welcome
04:28-!-dimitar3 [~dimitar@62.232.85.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:33-!-Ruebezahl [~Alf@p200300C04F064600626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
04:33-!-Ruebezahl is "realname" on #debian #skolelinux.de #osm-de
04:36-!-_Sugar_and_Sweet [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has joined #debian
04:36-!-_Sugar_and_Sweet is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
04:36-!-Makkah_ [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has joined #debian
04:36-!-Makkah_ is "realname" on #Qubes_OS #privacytools.io #oftc #moocows #debian-next #debian-in #debian
04:37-!-_Sugar_and_Sweet [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has quit []
04:37-!-Makkah_ [~Makkah@2.221.127.140] has quit []
04:39-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:39-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #debian-nginx #debian-welcome #debian-localgroups #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-gis #debian-django #debian #osm-de
04:47-!-Umpalumpa [~Synthea@151.68.84.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:48-!-Umpalumpa [~Synthea@151.68.84.187] has joined #debian
04:48-!-Umpalumpa is "Synthea" on #debian #debian-it
04:48-!-sagax [~sagax@213.138.71.146] has joined #debian
04:48-!-sagax is "sagax" on #debian #Qubes_OS
04:48-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@thunderrd.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:49-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@thunderrd.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:49-!-thunderrd is "realname" on #ck #debian @#GamersOnLinux #oftc
04:51-!-tdy [~tdy@00016994.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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05:26<Eightynine>How can I add Synaptic to XFCE menu?
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05:47<haker>ls\
05:47<haker>hi
05:47<arto>hi haker
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05:51<haker>Hi, are you a hacker
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05:55<haker>hi
05:55<arto>hi again
05:56<haker>Hi, are you a hacker
05:56<arto>haker: in what sence?
05:56<arto>!chat
05:56<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
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05:57<towo^work>hake is thinking, he is one, since he is using parrot
05:57<towo^work>haker
05:57<haker>hello
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06:33<katerino>Hello! I'm considering installing Debian as my newest distribution. I don't care about customization of most things, but I do want to get fancy with keyboard layouts and or input methods. Is there any advantage to using a more "hardcore" distribution like Arch for that particular thing?
06:34<katerino>I'm hoping that Debian will be enough.
06:35<arto>katerino: I don't know Arch, but Debian bends to many directions
06:35<katerino>Oh, that's good.
06:36<katerino>My impression is that most distributions do most things, and the big difference is the defaults. But I wanted to double check.
06:37<arto>katerino: maybe the big difference is that Debian by default uses only free software, to enable support for newer software you have to enable non-free, and maybe backports
06:37<katerino>Ah, okay.
06:38<katerino>I'm not sure how that'll affect my keyboard adventures.
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06:38<katerino>I think it's possible that I might need to find some input method software to customize that may or may not be free.
06:38<petn-randall>katerino: The difference between distros is also how well tested the software is, how new it is, what is shipped at all, and of course the size/knowledge/friendliness of the community you need to turn to to get support.
06:38<arto>katerino: that should not be difficult using cli utils
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06:39<katerino>cli utils?
06:39<arto>katerino: command line
06:39<katerino>Oh. Heh.
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06:40<arto>katerino: there might be gui utils for some, but generally most of the thins can be done through command line
06:41<arto>katerino: for example mapping keyboard keys
06:41<katerino>I was researching the process from keycodes to key names or whatever they're called to actual character output to the system, but I'm not sure how to make it do what I want.
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06:42<katerino>Ideally I'd be writing some script in some language and sticking it somewhere and my keyboard input goes thru the logic in that file before being put into textboxes or whatever.
06:43<katerino>There are a bunch of tutorials for rebinding keys, but none I've found for actually doing fancy logic with the keyboard.
06:43<katerino>I want ot experiment with chorded keyboard layouts, ideally.
06:43<arto>katerino: in debian I would start from /etc/default/keyboard and man keyboard
06:44<katerino>Huh, okay.
06:44<arto>arto: I have not done any 'fancy logic', just disabled CapsLock and such
06:45<arto>katerino: I have not done any 'fancy logic', just disabled CapsLock and such, sorry!
06:45<arto>talking to me self :)
06:45<katerino>Haha
06:46<katerino>I think I want something fancier than that that's going to require doing some actual programming instead of just messing with configuration files.
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06:46<katerino>I'm just not clear on where / how to stick my program into the process.
06:47<katerino>Or even like, what languages I'd be able to use.
06:47<arto>katerino: you shoud define what you mean by fancier
06:47<katerino>Sure. Um...
06:47<katerino>I haven't had the chance to experiment with this kind of thing because making it happen is so hard, but
06:48<katerino>I think ideally I'd have a chorded keyboard that outputs snippets and or unicode characters into wherever I'd normally type.
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06:49<katerino>But maybe I could do something even weirder, something like the Chinese and Japanese input methods, where you can choose from different options based on your input so far.
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06:49<arto>katerino: so you want to map some keys to something? That should not be too hard
06:51<katerino>I guess that would be a start, yeah. So if I could somehow get <press AE simultaneously> to output an ash character or things like that that would be good.
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06:52<katerino>Tho I suspect the notion of simultaneity is something that isn't handled by default.
06:53<arto>katerino: thats more hw thing, what keyboard chip supports
06:53<katerino>Huh, interesting.
06:53<katerino>I do know that there is software that does it, like Plover.
06:53<katerino>But it might be easier to find a custom keyboard to do it? I'm not sure.
06:54<arto>katerino: depends on keyboard, some permit more combinations than others
06:54<katerino>True, N-key rollover is a must.
06:54<arto>katerino: you should test what can be done with your curren keyboard
06:55<katerino>But I mean, something has to listen for key strokes and wait until they stop before outputting something, and I don't think that happens by default.
06:56<arto>katerino: can be tricky to make normal character keys work like Ctrl or Alt
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06:56<katerino>Yeah, totally.
06:56<katerino>But like, I was hoping to make literally All the keys work like Ctrl and Alt.
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06:58<katerino>So like, you press the A key and hold it then the O key and hold it and then the E key, and then only after you release all keys does the system interpret what you typed.
06:59<katerino>Stuff like Twiddler, but for an actual keyboard. Twiddler is one-handed, which is good in some circumstances but isn't ideal for writing in general.
07:00<arto>katerino: so you would need to remove A to insert A in buffer, instead waiting next key, but if you need to write AE?
07:00<katerino>All keyboard outputs would be chords instead of keystrokes.
07:01<katerino>Or well, maybe. See, the advantage with being able to have arbitrary code between my keyboard and my system is that I can experiment with things to see what is practical and what is not.
07:02<arto>katerino: I think that goes close to kernel, how keyboard is interpreted, not A Debian/disto thing
07:02<katerino>Huh, noted.
07:02<jm_>sounds somewhat like compose key, except without key releases
07:02<katerino>Well, I know it is possible to do without messing with the internals because Plover manages to do it.
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07:03<katerino>It's just that Plover can only handle a small number of keys because it is based on traditional stenography.
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07:04<katerino>I guess another way of asking my question is: What exactly are Plover and IBUS doing? How are they getting between the keyboard and textboxes?
07:04<katerino>How can I do the same, basically.
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07:05<arto>katerino: what is Plover? not a Debian package
07:05<katerino>Ah, it's open source stenography software.
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07:05<katerino>You can use it to do stenography with a regular keyboard.
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07:05<arto>katerino: if it is open source, check the source
07:05<katerino>Heh, good point.
07:06<katerino>Is IBUS open source?
07:07<katerino>Or any other Chinese/Japanese IMEs?
07:07<bremner>ibus is in debian, so yes
07:07<jm_>https://github.com/openstenoproject/plover/blob/master/plover/oslayer/xkeyboardcontrol.py
07:07<katerino>Ooh
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07:08<arto>katerino: python code, even better
07:09<katerino>I do know Python, so this is convenient.
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07:19<arto>katerino: in Plover wiki it is:In general, most keyboards will not be NKRO. "Gamer" and mechanical keyboards are most likely to have NKRO, while budget as well as laptop keyboards are unlikely to have NKRO.
07:19<katerino>Ah, yeah, true.
07:20<katerino>That's another obstacle to overcome.
07:20<katerino>I want to get a custom keyboard at some point too, heh.
07:20<arto>katerino: hw thing, can't be over ruled by sw
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07:20<katerino>NKRO is necessary but not sufficient for my needs.
07:21<katerino>Or, well, wants.
07:21<arto>katerino: buy one, or build one
07:21<katerino>Totally.
07:21<katerino>I'm gonna look into it.
07:22<katerino>I gotta go now tho.
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07:22<katerino>Thanks everyone for the help!
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07:23<jm_>heh reminds me, I haven't tested if my new keyboard is actually nkro, old one definitely wasn't
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07:23<arto>jm_: hw vendors rarely do more than they have to
07:24<arto>who need 5 keys pressed simultanously but gamers
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07:24<furrymcgee>maybe emacs users
07:24<arto>furrymcgee: :)
07:25<arto>metakey
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09:25<arto>after installing gpsd, I get every time this error message: https://paste.debian.net/1045864/ gpsd is working anyway, how to get of that?
09:25<arto>arto: when I install packages
09:26<arto>get rid of that error, damn this is difficult
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10:29<nyov>"Hint: Some lines were ellipsized, use -l to show in full." ...lol
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10:31<nyov>arto: try to stop the service, then run `dpkg --configure -a`
10:32<nyov>because of "invoke-rc.d: initscript gpsd, action "start" failed." It should hopefully work if it manages to *start* the service
10:32<arto>nyov:thanks, dpkg --configure -a produced same error
10:32<nyov>dang. so the init script is buggy?
10:32<nyov>can you start it manually?
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10:33<arto>nyov: yes, gpsd /dev/XXX works
10:33<nyov>"See 'journalctl -xe' for details." did you try that?
10:33<arto>nyov: after that foxtrogps shows location
10:34<arto>nyov: nothing relevant there, ntpdate, wlan authentication etc.
10:34<nyov>I mean the init service, does it 'start' when you up it manually?
10:34<nyov>service gpsd restart
10:35<nyov>otherwise you'll have to killall gpsd (i think)
10:35<arto>loka 04 17:35:11 samsung systemd[1]: gpsd.service: Job gpsd.service/start failed
10:35<arto>loka 04 17:35:12 samsung sudo[4551]: pam_unix(sudo:session): session closed for
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10:36<arto>nyov: yeah, I killed it first with killall
10:37<nyov>so it's gone; but still the initscript won't start it?
10:37<arto>nyov: there is already error in kernel message when I boot
10:38<arto>service gpsd restart
10:38<arto>A dependency job for gpsd.service failed. See 'journalctl -xe' for details.
10:38<nyov>if it was a sysvinit script, i'd just put 'exit 0' into it until dpkg configured things. but no idea how to short-circuit systemd there
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10:39<arto>nyov: this is just a nuisance, gpsd works, I can install packages
10:39<arto>nyov: thanks for trying
10:39<nyov>depends on the order of you packages. if the package would install *after* gpsd, you'll find you can't install it anymore now until you get this resolved
10:40<nyov>is my experience
10:41<arto>I've installed many packages after gpsd, they all work
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10:43<lindeb>Hi there.
10:43<arto>Hi lindeb
10:43<lindeb>I'd like to know why debi
10:43<lindeb>sorry
10:44<lindeb>I'like to know why Debian does not shutdown after I installed it on a SSD
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10:45<lindeb>I must "reboot" to shut it down.
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10:50<lindeb>Got to go. See ya later
10:50<lindeb>See you later.
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10:52<petn-randall>lindeb: I don't know, but first thing I'd check is the logs.
10:52<petn-randall>lindeb: Also, how exactly are you trying to shut it down?
10:52<lindeb>Poweroff command
10:53<petn-randall>lindeb: which one?
10:53<lindeb>or from Gnome applet, same result. It's a Samsung laptop and a Samsung Ssd evo
10:54<lindeb>just "poweroff"
10:54<petn-randall>lindeb: So if you run "poweroff", what happens?
10:56<lindeb>It stuck on line "24.620356] reboot: Power down"
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10:56<petn-randall>Does it timeout, reboot instead, throw an error, return success but do nothing?
10:56<petn-randall>Ah, so it does shutdown the OS, it just doesn't turn off the computer?
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10:57<lindeb>Exactly
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10:58<lindeb>It never turn off. But if I "reboot" it turn off after a while
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11:00<petn-randall>lindeb: Is it a fairly new model?
11:00<petn-randall>the laptop,that is.
11:01<lindeb>No, it's old
11:02<lindeb>Samsung NP300E5C
11:02<lindeb>ok, thanks for the answer
11:02<nyov>(acpi issue?)
11:02<lindeb>Got to go.
11:02<lindeb>Thnaks
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11:13<arto>I purged gpsd, installed again, journalctl -xe: Subject: Unit gpsd.service has failed,Defined-By: systemd,Unit gpsd.service has failed,The result is dependency.
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11:32<demo>hello
11:32<arto>hello demo
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11:35<petn-randall>arto: And have you looked at the logs yet?
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11:38<arto>petn-randall: which log, dpkg?
11:39<arto>petn-randall: apt/history.log and apt/term.log show the same error
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11:42<arto>Error: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
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11:44<petn-randall>arto: The logs from gpsd. "journalctl -u gpsd". Or the journalctl command that the error shows.
11:45<arto>Dependency failed for GPS (Global Positioning System) Daemon.gpsd.service: Job gpsd.service/start failed with result 'depende
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11:46<petn-randall>arto: Can you paste the complete output to https://paste.debian.net?
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11:46<arto>petn-randall: of which?
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11:47<petn-randall>arto: "journalctl -u gpsd", and "journalctl -xe" if it has different info.
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11:50<arto>- The result is failed.
11:50<arto>loka 04 18:08:08 samsung systemd[1]: Dependency failed for GPS (Global Positioni
11:50<arto>-- Subject: Unit gpsd.service has failed
11:50<arto>-- Defined-By: systemd
11:50<arto>-- Support: https://www.debian.org/support
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11:50<arto>sorry, [#debian] Hit Ctrl-K to paste, Ctrl-C to abort?
11:50<arto>https://paste.debian.net/1045896
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12:06<KONG>hi
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12:07<arto>hi KONG
12:07<KONG>hi
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12:07<KONG>iwont samething
12:08<arto>KONG: just ask if it is about Debian
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12:08<petn-randall>arto: This looks like the text was truncated. If your pager is less type "--ch<enter>" to fold those lines.
12:08<egy>arto: thank you for yesterday's `man keymap` (it's `man keyboard` btw :) )
12:09<arto>petn-randall: that's because I on small notebook, I think the only truncate lińes were 'dependency'
12:09<arto>egy: you are welcome1
12:10<arto>egy: I stand corrected!
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12:13<arto>petn-randall: as journalctl -xe shows
12:15<petn-randall>arto: If you run 'systemctl', does it show any failed services?
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12:16<arto>petn-randall: gpsd.socket failed
12:17<arto>petn-randalll: or the line is: gpsd.socket loaded failed failed
12:18<arto>petn-randall: but I can still use gpsd, that's the funny part
12:18<petn-randall>arto: I'd dig further in the logs to find out why.
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12:19<arto>petn-randall: I think journalctl -xe showed: The result is dependency.
12:19<arto>but I don't know what to make of that
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12:25<arto>petn-randall: thanks
12:25<egy>I used to use `dpkg-reconfigure` to re-run some configuration "wizards". The utility exist doesn't exist in debian (only its man page), what should I use instead of `dpkg-reconfigure` ?
12:26<arto>egy: what package are you trying to reconfigure?
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12:28<egy>whoops! looks like dpkg-reconfigure is available when you switch to root. I need to get used to the debian way :d
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12:28<egy>arto: keyboard-configuration
12:29<egy>because manually editing /etc/default/keyboard didn't work even after restarting, so I am resorting to keyboard-configuration
12:31<arto>egy: /usr/share/doc/keyboard-configuration has some info
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12:33<arto>egy: and dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration works
12:33<arto>egy: as root
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12:33<egy>yup, just switched to root and it works out of the box. Restarting now...
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13:00<arto>petn-randall: systemctl reset-failed has is at least temporary fix
13:01<arto>https://linux-audit.com/auditing-systemd-solving-failed-units-with-systemctl/
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13:07*mnuhmnuh arto, thanks for that, looks useful. :-)
13:07<arto>mnuhmnuh: yw
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13:18<mnuhmnuh>yes, it was useful. hope i've now lost the last vestiges of NetworkManager-wait-online.service and ModemManager.service :-) not needed here.
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13:32<mnuhmnuh>well whatta ya know. emacs does eww too. i thought it'd fire up w3m-el, but no. never knew about eww. makes techdirt look pretty.
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13:34<mr_B>a
13:34<arto>b
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13:35<Mr_B>krya-krya
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13:35<arto>wov, just one letter..
13:36<mnuhmnuh>arto: nope, i still see those net-man masked services messages. just warnings, but they won't go away. :-|
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13:37<arto>mnuhmnuh: but how? I thought you never installed network-manager?
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13:38<mnuhmnuh>arto: yeah, it was here on install, not deselected. i just changed over to interfaces and slowly backed out net-man stuff i could.
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13:40<arto>mnuhmnuh: I nowadays select expert-install, and install only packages I need. Learnen years ago network-manager is no good.
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13:43<mnuhmnuh>arto: i like to let the install do it's thing, with minor tweaks, as the release _team_ :-P releases it, just to see what current practice is. may install multiple times.
13:43<jhutchins_wk>arto: NM is fine for situations where you need it. It works quite well these days.
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13:44<mnuhmnuh>i agree w jh, i don't need it, but works fine from within user gui env. good.
13:45<mnuhmnuh>the less we have to educate people about su vs. su -, the better.
13:46<arto>jhutchins_wk: when I bought this notebook, I could not get it's internal 3g modem workin before purging network-manager. And time to time ppl come here, and solution sometimes is to get rid of NM.
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13:48<arto>jhutchins_wk: but generally ppl should have the right to select choose programs they want
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13:52<arto>has anyone used fingerprint login in Debian?
13:53<arto>Debian wiki is quite sparse about this
13:55<nyov>does someone have a system setup that runs from initramfs without doing pivot_root, maybe with mini root ramdisk? something that doesn't hang if primary disk should fail?
13:55<nyov>how do those diskless DRBL setups do that actually
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13:57<nyov>arto: fingerprint login? do you mean ssh + keyfile?
13:58<arto>nyov: i expressed badly, using fingerprint reader
13:59<arto>nyov: I've read gdm supports it, and there is libpam-fprintd in repo
14:00<nyov>that will actually depend on your hardware and whether it's supported by a driver
14:00<arto>nyov: I have working usb fingerprint reader, fprint-demo worked with it
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14:01<nyov>then check https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fprint
14:01<arto>nyov: thanks!
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14:18<sqrt{not}>nyov: you know about debian-live systems, on USB stick, right ?
14:21<nyov>sqrt{not}: sure. I want it on a server
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14:22<Eightynine>How to add Synaptic to XFCE menu?
14:22<arto>Eightynine: are you sure it is not there already?
14:22<nyov>I mean, it's probably similar when you take away the squashfs and aufs or whatnot, but I haven't investigated really
14:23<petn-randall>Eightynine: It's there by default. Which OS release are you running?
14:23<mnuhmnuh>Eightynine: in mate, i do mb-3/right-click --> add/+ ...
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14:24<Eightynine>arto, I was DE hopping and after switching from Plasma to MATE it disappeared. Then I switched to XFCE and it didn't appear. I'm on Buster.
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14:24<arto>mnuhmnuh: XFCE does not need that
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14:24<arto>!debian-next
14:24<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
14:25<arto>Eightynine: but I'd thing purging synaptic and installing again would fix it
14:25<Eightynine>Thank you. I'll try.
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14:27<Eightynine>No, it didn't help.
14:27<mnuhmnuh>er, no, i wouldn't want to _add_ synaptic to my aplet controls, it ought already be in app menu.
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14:28<arto>mnuhmnuh: that's what we suggested
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14:28<arto>Eightynine: have checked all? There is Internet, System, etc.
14:29<Eightynine>Debian+XFCE feels really lightweight though. arto it's in System and couldn't be launched.
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14:29<arto>Eightynine: I think it needs root privileges
14:30<arto>Eightynine: never used
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14:32<Eightynine>You mean never used Synaptic?
14:33<arto>Eightynine: yepp
14:33<Eightynine>So you use terminal?
14:34<arto>Eightynine: all the time, but searched and some suggested gksu for synaptic
14:34<Eightynine>Thank you, probably I lack gksu
14:34<mnuhmnuh>!gksu
14:34<dpkg>gksu is a graphical interface for running X apps as another user such as root. «aptitude install gksu». If you have set your machine up with sudo to allow you to run any command you want, then you can make gksu use "sudo" mode all the time by running "gconftool-2 -t bool -s /apps/gksu/sudo-mode 1". Also ask me about <sux>.
14:35<mnuhmnuh>last i heard, gksu was evil/deprecated/bad practice.
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14:36<arto>mnuhmnuh: how would you install apps using synaptic
14:36<mnuhmnuh>sudo
14:37<arto>mnuhmnuh: of course, you! :)
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14:37<arto>Eightynine: have you configured sudo?
14:38<arto>!sux
14:38<dpkg>sux was a utility for running X apps as a different user but is no longer in Debian; ask me about <gksu> and <root x> for alternatives. Documentation for sux is at http://fgouget.free.fr/sux/ . Sux is also the way some people spell sucks and usually implies that they don't know what they are talking about; ask me about <u>.
14:39<Eightynine>No, it has default settings.
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14:39<Eightynine>Why was gksu deprecated?
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14:41<arto>Eightynine: well, seems dpkg above uses sudo also for gksu
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14:42<arto>Eightynine: newer used, again, but it's in the repo, your choice
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14:42<mnuhmnuh>Eightynine: as explained to me, inherently heavily lax security.
14:43<mnuhmnuh>wish i could remember contex, prob. on the wiki somewhere, try full text search.
14:43<Eightynine>If it lacked security it explains why it was deprecated.
14:44<arto>Eightynine: sudo configuring is not hard: in terminal as root: adduser [user] sudo, logout. login, and you can use sudo
14:45<arto>Eightynine: assuming things have not changed so much in Buster...
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14:48<mnuhmnuh>yes, then "%sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL" in /etc/sudoers.
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14:48<arto>mnuhmnuh: that's not needed in stretch
14:49<arto>mnuhmnuh: you only have to member of sudo group
14:51<Eightynine>Since switching to XFCE I was getting error when trying to open my HDD. It said "Error mounting drive". I didn't know where to mount it, opened GParted because couldn't find which sd* is it and then opened terminal and typed sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /media/david. It works but I have conflict with my home folder (some software confuses it and my HDD mount point).
14:52<arto>Eightynine: I suggest you go to Debian-next, they know Buster better
14:52<arto>!Debian-next
14:52<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
14:52<mnuhmnuh>you also need to be mentioned in sudoers here. "... is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported."
14:52<Eightynine>Thank you. I'm already on it.
14:52<bremner>just being in the group is enough, IME
14:53<arto>bremner: thats against my experience, and what I have read
14:54<Eightynine>Who decided to give names to releases? Ian?
14:54<bremner>http://paste.debian.net/1045932/
14:54<mnuhmnuh>i'm in sudo.
14:55<arto>mnuhmnuh: so am i
14:55<Zr40>does "groups" list sudo?
14:55<bremner>for me? of course, that was my point
14:55<Zr40>no, for those saying it's not enough
14:56<arto>thankk you Zr40
14:56<mnuhmnuh>i use %sudo (group sudo) to represent me ^^.
14:56<mnuhmnuh>not by username.
14:56<bremner>is this one of those, must not admit we're wrong days?
14:57<bremner>like every other day on the internet...
14:57<mnuhmnuh>nutrinos.
14:58<arto>bremener: I'd like to be corrected, If I give wrong/old info
14:58<mnuhmnuh>groups: $USER adm cdrom floppy _sudo_ audio dip video plugdev netdev
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15:00<mnuhmnuh>i don't think i've done anything else to sudo config but that one line and groups.
15:01<arto>mnuhmnuh: well, I chose this Ubuntu thing, and have not root on this Debian install
15:05<mnuhmnuh>i usually have one xterm open su'd root, but the odd x app likes to fire up a gui sudo demand. cool by me, so long's it works.
15:05<arto>but on the forums.debian.net some have argued that my sudo usage is bad, and I've always responded I uses sudo in Debian before Ubuntu existed.
15:06<mnuhmnuh>arto: i like especially on a server, logs its actions! definitely good practice.
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15:07<arto>mnuhmnuh: I started using sudo in RedHat 7, and sudo usage is logged
15:07<arto>as you said
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15:22<Eightynine>Which email site can I choose to drop Gmail?
15:24<arto>Eightynine: what is your ISP?
15:26<Eightynine>I'm from Russia, I have only state-owned company in my village.
15:26<arto>Eightynine: I do not know other options, perhaps there are.
15:26<arto>Eightynine: and it has no email servers?
15:27<Eightynine>Gmail became too heavy, that's why I want to switch from it. I'll check if my ISP has email servers.
15:28<arto>Eightynine: there are plenty of free email providers, but not many provide support than webmail
15:30<arto>Eightynine: that might be easiest part, you could also search net
15:32<Eightynine>I used ProtonMail maybe 3 years ago but didn't like that it gives me only 500 MB. I have 500 MB of 15 GB in Gmail. Not sure what eats space.
15:33<arto>Eightynine: Debian has programs, which automatically delete old mail (you can define how old), I after reading mail delete or store to my computer
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15:35<arto>Eightynine: Debian has many good mail programs, I use procmail and bogofilter to filter mail
15:35<Eightynine>I saw tutanota too but it has red main page. Too bright design.
15:35<__44__44>or just grab the mail off the server and store locally as much as you want to
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15:40<nyov>which isn't really possible with protonmail
15:40<Eightynine>How can I get rid of tearing?
15:41<arto>Eightynine: I think thats again Debian-next thing
15:41<nyov>set vsync on
15:42<Eightynine>They didn't answer about tearing.
15:42<nyov>or your graphics driver may have a setting
15:42<arto>Eightynine: listen to nyov
15:42<arto>Eightynine: what is your GPU?
15:43<arto>Eightynine: if you can't say, you can install inxi, and run inxi -G
15:43<Eightynine>One day I modified configuration file to add TearFree and it caused my system to have freezes. I think it was in Ubuntu. But will it work in Debian? arto Intel HD 530
15:44<arto>Eightynine: have you enabled non-free in apt sources.list?
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15:45<arto>Eightynine: you propably can do it in synaptic
15:45<Eightynine>https://pastebin.com/wrkPMVsY check this please arto Yes.
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15:47<arto>Eightynine: install firmware-linux-free and firmware-linux-nonfree
15:48<arto>Eightynine: and there is paste.debian.net
15:50<Eightynine>Both packages are installed.
15:50<arto>Eightynine: still tearing?
15:50<Eightynine>Yes. Maybe wrong XFCE settings?
15:51<arto>Eightynine: nyov said 'set vsync on'
15:51<arto>Eightynine: no, that's display, not XFCE
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15:52<arto>nyov: where to put that if no xorg.conf?
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15:55<nyov>uhm, I don't really know. fglrx has a nice gui for setting it %)
15:55<arto>nyov: Ok, can't blame you
15:55<arto>Eightynine: perhaps we need /etc/X11/xorg.conf
15:55<nyov>try the opposite of this perhaps? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17196117/disable-vertical-sync-for-glxgears
15:56<nyov>https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/intel_graphics#Disable_Vertical_Synchronization_.28VSYNC.29
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15:56<nyov>^ may apply to intel cards
15:56<Eightynine>I get this message: "Directory '/etc/x11' does not exist"
15:57<mnuhmnuh>capital x.
15:58<arto>Eightynine: env vblank_mode=0 __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 glxgears, modify that
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15:59<arto>Eightynine: dont make xorg.conf jet
15:59<__44__44>Eightynine, and for future reference the x in X11 is capitalized
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16:00<Eightynine>Why some folders have .d name? To support systemd?
16:00<arto>Eightynine: dirs
16:00<bremner>no. it's just a convention to avoid name collisions
16:01<bremner>nothing to do with systemd
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16:01<Eightynine>I have only 00-keyboard.conf there.
16:01<mnuhmnuh>no, to split out discrete files for diff. things. top file does "source .../yada.d/*"
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16:03<arto>Eightynine: that arch link nyov gave is good, you don't need xorg.conf
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16:04<jhutchins_wk>Eightynine: It's become a convention to have a directory that's included in the configuration file, so that a program appends those files (in alphabetical order) to the main config file. This allows a package to drop a config file, say for a web mail app, into the main config without having to edit the main file.
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16:26<illwieckz>fglrx? am I travelling into the past?
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16:53<hau63n>do anyone know if there is a plan to implement something like the proprietary nvidia-prime pkg f
16:54<hau63n>*the proprietary nvidia-prime pkg from ubuntu ? bumblebee seems to be abandoned unfortunately..
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16:56<hau63n>I use bumblebee today on a 940mx, over at the ubuntu forums some users reports that the nvidia-prime is performing better.
16:58<jhutchins_wk>hau63n: It's pretty likely that nvidia-prime is not free/OS.
16:59*mnuhmnuh read that as operating system.
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17:00<jhutchins_wk>I guess OSS is the correct abbreviation.
17:00<mnuhmnuh>:-) not to drag the cia in ...
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17:02<hau63n>hahah yeah :) , i guess indeed that the pkg is open source. But the pkg might be suitable in the non-free repo ?
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17:06<hau63n>*NOT open source. sorry about that - tired, i've currently very long days of studying
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18:06<katerino>aaaaaaa I installed Debian earlier today and I've been battling bugs all day.
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18:06<katerino>I've lost count of how many weird behaviors/bugs I've encountered, but uh, the most important one is that my keyboard only works for half my applications.
18:07<katerino>Like, it works as expected with libreoffice, it types but not with my preferences enabled on Firefox, and it won't type anything at all when I'm asked to enter my password.
18:08<katerino>Oh, and I'm using Plasma, if that's relevant.
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18:11<annadane>on stable? :(
18:11<annadane>i have no idea what could be causing keyboard issues like that
18:11<katerino>I hope so? How can I check?
18:11<annadane>cat /etc/debian_version
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18:12<katerino>When I type that into the terminal I get 9.5 as the result.
18:12<annadane>i mean how was it installed, if you just used the regular net install it'll be stretch (stable)
18:12<annadane>yeah, ok. that's really weird for stable
18:12<katerino>I didn't have internet access when I installed it, so maybe that's a factor?
18:13<katerino>It didn't want to use non-free drivers for wifi by default.
18:13<katerino>I had to add that in later.
18:14<annadane>hmm maybe. if you didn't use internet access for the net install it means you started with a quite bare system
18:14<annadane>there are images which don't require the use of internet, of course. anyway, i'm not sure how to solve your problem, i'll leave it to other people
18:14<katerino>Okay. Thanks anyway.
18:15<katerino>Oh, another thing: When I open the menu and start typing in the name of an application, I can get exactly one character in before the keyboard stops functioning completely.
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18:25<blast007>katerino: you could see if it behaves the same way from a live DVD/USB (with firmware): https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.5.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/ (and there's also installer images that include firmware, such as ...
18:25<blast007>... https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/9.5.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso )
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18:26<katerino>Huh. So you mean I'll check whether the same bugs appear in a portable usb-installed instance?
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18:26<at0m>katerino: any other keyb you can connect? PS2 to a desktop, or a usb to a laptop?
18:27<katerino>I have another keyboard, yeah. I could try that out.
18:27<at0m>ez
18:27<at0m>at least you'll have some keyb to troubleshout with
18:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 474] by debhelper
18:28<katerino>Dang, just tried it and all the same problems are there.
18:28<katerino>I have my old computer out which is what I'm using now.
18:28<at0m>same connection? ie. is it 2 usb keyboards?
18:29<at0m>or both ps2
18:29<katerino>I plugged a usb keyboard into the laptop I'm trying to get Debian to work on.
18:30<katerino>The laptops both come with the default built-in keyboard, but the keys stopped working on my main machine, which is why I wanted to install Debian on the other one.
18:30<katerino>I'm using a usb keyboard now.
18:30<katerino>On my broken main machine, not the Debian one.
18:31<katerino>By installing Debian on the other machine, I ended up trading having half my keyboard working on all my applications to all my keys working on half my applications LOL
18:33<at0m>and during the installer, i assume, the keyboard worked?
18:33<katerino>Yes.
18:33<katerino>Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it was working fine until I messed with my settings. There must have been something I changed.
18:34<at0m>then it cant be some firmware that wasn't on the installer .iso
18:34<at0m>so missing firmware^
18:34<at0m>so NO missing firmware^
18:34<katerino>Ah, okay.
18:35<at0m>what settings did you change?
18:35<at0m>(and after which it stopped working)
18:35<katerino>A whole bunch of them.
18:35<katerino>Is there a way to just reset to defaults?
18:35<katerino>Then I can test each thing as I change it.
18:36<at0m>can you ssh to the laptop?
18:36-!-pamaury [~pamaury@46.235.183.48] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
18:36<katerino>I have only a basic understanding of what SSH is and I don't know what you mean in this context.
18:36<at0m>you could reconfigure the laptop over the network
18:36<at0m>or, you could boot from the installer iso again, then select Rescue/terminal there
18:37<at0m>then chroot /dev/sda1
18:37<at0m>err, chroot /target
18:37<katerino>Oh, there's a "rescue" thing on those?
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18:37<at0m>yes, in the list of options where you select how to install "graphical", "expert", ..
18:38<at0m>not sure how it's called, but you can go to command line there
18:38<katerino>Huh, okay.
18:39<at0m>from there, you can run "chroot /target" and "dpkg-reconfigure -a" to reconfigure all, or "dpkg-reconfigure $package" where $package is a suspected package containing suspected settings
18:40<at0m>not sure how the package is called
18:40<katerino>Oh, actually, the terminal is one of the applications that the keyboard works on.
18:41<at0m>katerino: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
18:41<katerino>Is that a command?
18:41<at0m>oh so only on desktop the keyb fails
18:41<at0m>yes
18:41<katerino>Yeah, it has like a 50/50 shot of failing for any given program.
18:41<at0m>log in as root on the terminal
18:41<katerino>Okay.
18:42<at0m>then run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration"
18:42<katerino>Huh, a menu came up.
18:42<at0m>not sure why it could stop your keyb from working, but "This package maintains the keyboard preferences in /etc/default/keyboard."
18:45<katerino>Okay, I walked thru the menu thing, tho I'm not totally confident I chose the right keyboard from the menu.
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18:45<at0m>"50/50 shot of failing for any given program" do you mean some programs it always works, in the other half it fails?
18:45<katerino>Exactly, yes.
18:46<at0m>maybe that can be in, for example QT vs gtk apps? wild guess
18:46<katerino>Yeah, that crossed my mind.
18:46<at0m>easy to check
18:46<at0m>then why it would do that, i dont know :D
18:47<at0m>these programs where keyb fails, continue to response to mouse input?
18:47<katerino>Libreoffice works, firefox technically works but the compose key doesn't, and the start menu and apper never work.
18:47<katerino>Yes they do, the mouse works fine.
18:48<at0m>ok so these programs don't hang or somthing
18:48<katerino>Right.
18:48<katerino>And when I type into the start menu, I get one character in and then can't add more, and can't backspace either.
18:48<at0m>what desktop do you run? XFCE, KDE, ..?
18:48<katerino>But I can still highlight it with my mouse.
18:48<katerino>KDE Plasma.
18:49<katerino>Oh, and I did that reset-the-keyboard menu thing and it didn't work.
18:49<at0m>ok
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18:50<at0m>KDE has systemsettings > hardware > input devices > keyboard. maybe go over the options there?
18:50<katerino>Whoa, actually. I told the menu that I wanted to disable the compose key, but the compose key is still working in libreoffice.
18:50<katerino>Okay.
18:50<at0m>using the mouse
18:51<at0m>it's not a hardware problem, cos you installed fine and you can use the terminals
18:52<katerino>Hmm. The keyboard model was set to generic rather than dell inspiron which is what I have. So I changed that but the problems persist.
18:52<annadane>have you checked your computer for ghosts?
18:52<at0m>ghost is not in the shell!
18:52<katerino>Ghosts?
18:53<at0m>katerino: voodoo
18:53<annadane>i'm just being stupid, sorry
18:53<katerino>Oh, I thought it was a technical term, haha
18:53<at0m>:p
18:53<katerino>Oh, and I should be clear on something else: Apper works fine with the search function, but when it asks for my password I can't type anything.
18:54<annadane>i *don't* think this would be a nouveau problem, if you had an nvidia card
18:54<at0m>katerino: maybe it just doesnt show?
18:55<katerino>I tried typing and hitting enter but it tells me the password is wrong, heh.
18:55<katerino>I just tried disabling "Configure keyboard options" and that still didn't fix it.
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18:55<katerino>Oh, heh, I should specify:
18:56<katerino>Hitting enter didn't work, I had to hit "okay" with the mouse.
18:56<at0m>katerino: does that laptop run debian stable, or testing? if you can't find the solution here, there's #debian-next for testing and #debian-kde, both more low traffic than this channel.
18:56<katerino>It's 9.5, which someone else told me was the stable version I think.
18:56<katerino>I can try another channel, yeah.
18:56<annadane>kat said they didn't have internet for the install, i believe
18:57<katerino>Right, yeah.
18:57<annadane>because didn't want to use non-free firmware for wifi
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18:57<at0m>use wired network :>
18:58<annadane>i'm like 99% sure that's the problem, some kind of improper install
18:58<katerino>I guess I could just try reinstalling the darn thing.
18:58<at0m>katerino: also useful would be to find out in which "50%" of the programs the keyb fails. like QT/gtk/.., maybe there's a pattern
18:58<annadane>also, how did you actually write the image to your install medium?
18:59<katerino>I used rufus.
18:59<annadane>!rufus
18:59<dpkg>rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
18:59<annadane>!win32diskimager
18:59<dpkg>win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details.
18:59<at0m>katerino: i dont think reinstalling would fix anything if you end up doing it exactly like before
18:59<katerino>Heh.
18:59<annadane>or cp/dd if you're already using linux
19:00<katerino>I originally tried doing cp like the Debian website said but it didn't work for reasons I don't remember.
19:00<annadane>but yeah try without rufus? and if you're using the netinstall and need firmware for the wifi use the non-free image, or use the cd/dvd installer instead
19:00<katerino>Okay, cool.
19:00<annadane>otherwise call ghostbusters
19:01<katerino>Haha
19:01<at0m>annadane: thanks. reminds me i need to turn of my morning alarm for tomorrow. i'm off shift (my alarm is ghostbusters tune;)
19:01<annadane>lmao
19:02<at0m>no ghostbusters in the morning \o/
19:04<annadane>for cp, the syntax is cp /path/to/iso /dev/sdX where sdX is your target and /path/to/iso is wherever you saved the iso
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19:04<annadane>and it would be something like sda, not sda1, but do check to make sure what the target actually is via lsblk (and check the sizes it tells you to doubly make sure you're writing to the right thing)
19:05<katerino>lsblk?
19:05<annadane>lsblk is a unix command
19:05<annadane>to see what partitions you have
19:06<annadane>"list block"
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19:06<at0m>i often use ls -l /dev/disk/by-..
19:06<katerino>Ah, I see an sdb and an sdb1 connected to it.
19:06<at0m>lsblk is probably shorter =)
19:07<annadane>the thing with the designation is it depends on what order the devices are plugged in so sdb will not always be sdb and it depends
19:07<annadane>but yes, if that's your target partition, you'd cp to sdb, not sdb1
19:07<katerino>Got it.
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19:11<katerino>What's the different between the live and normal iso images?
19:11<annadane>the live images are essentially... well, there's different uses i guess but one use is troubleshooting
19:12<annadane>you'd install the netinstall or cd/dvd images, not the live iso
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19:12<katerino>Does it not matter whether I use the cd or dvd images?
19:12<katerino>I see both.
19:12<katerino>But I'm using a usb?
19:13<katerino>Ah, it looks like USB works for the CD ones.
19:14<annadane>you know, i've been really lazy and never figured out the cd/dvd differences
19:14<annadane>but if you have internet access you can just use the netinst
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19:14<katerino>Huh.
19:14<annadane>with the caveat for possible firmware, like i mentioned. the cd/dvd images would be for offline installation
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19:16<annadane>i guess the answer is just "the dvd images are bigger"
19:16<katerino>Huh, for some reason I only see the the netinst in there. But if it has the wifi driver I can just connect, right?
19:16<annadane>more packages
19:16-!-m8mble [~quassel@p200300CA3BE5F500BA27EBFFFE7E83E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
19:16-!-m8mble is "m8mble" on #pext #debian
19:16<annadane>in where?
19:17<katerino>The site that I'm at.
19:17<katerino>It's a subdomain of debian.org.
19:17<annadane>yeah it depends on whether the wifi requires firmware to function or not, which can be ascertained with a live image first
19:17<annadane>i don't know how you feel about firmware ideologically but i can give you a non-free image
19:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 467] by debhelper
19:18<katerino>At the moment my priority is getting it to work, heh.
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19:19<__44__44>regarding that keyboard issue: could it be the "disable keyboard while using touchpad" feature getting in the way? I had that problem once
19:19<at0m>__44__44: isnt it "disable touchpad while using keyb"?
19:19<__44__44>right
19:19<__44__44>:)
19:20<at0m>like, to not accidentally rub pad with your wrist
19:20<annadane>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso
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19:22<katerino>annadane: Thanks!
19:23<annadane>well and i guess i'll also mention after the install is done you should update your system because there's been kernel changes and it won't be in the installer
19:23<annadane>(and because you're upgrading the kernel it'll require a reboot)
19:23<katerino>Ah, okay. Noted.
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19:23<annadane>i'm actually not sure whether the expert install can do that, but anyway. let's not mess around with that for now
19:24<katerino>Oh, is there a difference between the "current" one and the "9.5" one?
19:24<annadane>AFAIK no
19:24<katerino>Heh, okay.
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19:26<annadane>ugh god the debian website.
19:27<annadane>i... it's functional but :/
19:33<nyov>buuuuuuuuuuuuut?
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19:33<annadane>it's actually fine in general, really. but it's a lot of information which can be confusing if you don't really know where to look
19:34<nyov>do you mean the site in general, or the many sites, or juwst the wiki specifically? :D
19:34<annadane>the debian website in general
19:34<annadane>it's link central
19:34<nyov>you just have to crawl it right
19:34*nyov hides
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19:37<itd>one page at a time: https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/156-making-debian-more-user-friendly-by-changing-the-web-start-page-wwwdebianorg/
19:37<nyov>but I just watched the debconf webteam bof yesterday, and a lot more. It was very interesting
19:37<annadane>one thing i will say is the wiki is actually pretty good
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19:53<canaima>google
19:53-!-canaima [~canaima@190-198-229-252.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has quit []
19:53<annadane>no. bad canaima.
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20:15<at0m>annadane: one thing that debian.org has for it, that few other websites have: no google!
20:15<at0m>it's just.. debian.org =)
20:16<annadane>i want more facebook trackers
20:16<at0m>file a feature request. good luck =)
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21:40<Guest585>can debian 9 install resize a reiserfs?
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 05 00:00:11 2018