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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-10-06

---Logopened Sat Oct 06 00:00:13 2018
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00:02-!-bluewater is "Trevor Walkey" on #debian #debian-next #aptosid-docs #aptosid
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00:08-!-buzzedup is "f" on #debian
00:08<buzzedup>hello people!
00:09<buzzedup>i just installed debian on a brand new laptop with a preistalled windows10. im trying to setup dual boot with uefi.
00:09<buzzedup>debian installation went fine with uefi installer. but now the laptop just boots into windows.
00:09<buzzedup>there is no option for grub or debian on the boot order menu.
00:11<buzzedup>do you know whats up?
00:12<buzzedup>fwiw its buster
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00:29<somiaj>buzzedup: buster support is in #debian-next.
00:30<somiaj>buzzedup: did you install grub-pc or grub-efi during the install?
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03:02<ejr>how can i prevent debian at bootup from waiting 90 secs for a start job to expire?
03:03<ejr>(it is looking for a hdd that is sometimes attachable when my thinkpad is in the ultrabay)
03:07<themill>is it worth marking that as noauto in fstab?
03:08<ejr>it already has that flag
03:08<ejr>also nofail
03:09<themill>which start-up job is it waiting on then? because a noauto partition wouldn't even be looked for
03:10<ejr>it looks for the sda1_crypt, the decrypted partition of that has noauto
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03:12-!-Q-Master is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debianppc #debian #debian-next
03:15<themill>so is it the cryptsetup job not the fstab job that is waiting? (precisely which job is waiting? systemd-analyze critical-chain; systemd-analyze plot; for example)
03:16<ejr>hm i will check
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03:57<rizgar>hey
04:00-!-rizgar [~rizgar@2a02:c7f:2843:4a00:58e6:6c55:389b:c425] has quit []
04:01<katerino>Hey, I just set up a new Debian installation and the user-friendly tools for installing software have been acting wonky.
04:01<katerino>The software manager Discover can't see lots of packages that I was able to successfully install via the command line, including uim and Java.
04:02<katerino>And also, when I use the graphical tool to install .deb packages, it tells me that the file I just opened doesn't exist, but again installing from the command line works juts fine.
04:02<themill>Yeah, these tools aren't great.
04:02<themill>People seem to rewrite from scratch on a regular basis rather than fixing the bugs.
04:03<katerino>Huh.
04:03<katerino>Is there a way for me to "discover" what packages are available to me?
04:03<themill>apt-cache search
04:04<themill>or 'aptitude' if you want something browsable
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04:04<at0m>katerino: or open plain aptitude. or apt search (searches in descriptions too) or aptitude search (searches package names)
04:04<katerino>Oh, is aptitude what they use on Ubuntu?
04:05<at0m>yes they got that from debian
04:05<katerino>Do I just do "apt-get install aptitude"?
04:05<themill>there's 50k packages so browsing a list is unlikely to be a fun experience no matter what the interface
04:06<katerino>I would think that refining searches by keywords would make such a big number still workable.
04:06<at0m>well, there's categories. so if you're looking for, say, programs to make or play music, these are under "sound"
04:07<at0m>but indeed large list is large
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04:09<katerino>Oh, is aptitude a text-only non-graphical thing? Am I stuck with the command line then?
04:10<at0m>katerino: installing requires root. and between you and me, root has no business on a desktop.
04:10<katerino>Uh, hmm.
04:10<katerino>How else do you install software?
04:10<at0m>from the command line.
04:11<katerino>Oh, I think I get it.
04:12<at0m>katerino: extra layers make extra points of failure. and the graphical frontends to apt/aptitude/... are known to cause extra problems.
04:12<katerino>Heh, it always seemed to work fine when I was running Mint.
04:14<at0m>katerino: they might do their job. but sometimes they don't, and then you're stuck. apt and family are very well developed and have much less issues.
04:15<katerino>Sounds reasonable. I was hoping to learn more low-level tools when switching to a less newbie distro in the first place, so I guess I have no room to complain.
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04:16<katerino>At this point tho, I'm glad I didn't go with Arch Linux, because I've spent way too many hours troubleshooting as it is.
04:17<at0m>katerino: coming from Mint, debian makes perfect sense. arch isn't better or worse, it just does some things differently
04:17<katerino>Huh, okay. My impression was that Arch was like a Gentoo-lite, a build-your-own installation distro.
04:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 468] by debhelper
04:18<themill>katerino: yeah, the lack of usable GUIs to install things is sad but has perpetuated for quite some years now
04:18<katerino>Noted.
04:18<themill>synaptic wasn't a bad option about a decade ago (which is when I last used it, tbh). We keep hearing about strange behaviour with it these days though
04:20<themill>There's a reasonable amount of the KDE stack (including things like Discover) that feels increasingly like a bunch of abandoned masters projects.
04:20<katerino>heh
04:21<at0m>katerino: on top, if you apt remove plasma-discover, apt no longer downloads 50MB (?) icons set with each update
04:21*themill is sad
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04:21<katerino>Huh.
04:22<katerino>Okay. If the tool isn't even doing what I want it to do anyway, I might as well uninstall itt.
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04:24<at0m>i had a bunch of machines with kde and i wondered why apt update downloaded that big icons pack each time. (for the packages lists, apt gets a differences file, not so for the icons tarbal) found out it was the plasma-discover that got pulled in with some kde metapackage
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04:24<arto>aptitudes classification is great, and in cli commands like apt, apt-get and aptitude you can use bash tools, like aptitude search ^sound to search packages starting with sound
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04:26<arto>katerino: you would still need root priviliges to install packages, so synaptic must be started using sudo or gksu
04:27<at0m>arto: who speaks of synaptic? :D
04:28<arto>at0m: sorry, just woke up :)
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04:29<at0m>arto: themill said it used to work kinda ok, but that it has become more wonky lately.
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04:29<at0m>i dont want any wonky in my package management ;)
04:30<arto>at0m: I have no experience of it, just trouble shooted one person a few days ago
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04:30<arto>at0m: apt-get, aptitude and apt have always worked
04:31<themill>.o0( troubleshot? )
04:32<arto>yea, I'll troubleshoot anyone behaving bad, you've been warned (;
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04:32<themill>
04:35<at0m>arto: regardless of server or machine with either of two dozen desktop managers and each their GUI frontends, the backend is always the apt/dpkg family. makes sense that family is much more developed, indeed
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04:41<arto>at0m: I agree
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04:42<arto>and you can even use mouse in aptitude, if you wish
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04:43<at0m>yea like in most of curses (ncmpcpp is a frontend i use for mpd)
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04:44<arto>I think curses is great, I always install mc, and ranger, have even done some curses programmin myself
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04:47<at0m>=)
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04:48<arto>python3-urwid - curses-based UI/widget library for Python 3
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06:54<arto>seems there is no python3-curses anymore in Stretch, but you can import curses in python3, it's now included
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06:57-!-Vollstrecker is "Werner Mahr" on #debian-kde #debian
06:57<at0m>debian is quite popular on servers, there's way more of those than desktops
06:57<at0m>oops mousewheel fal
06:57<at0m>fail
06:57<at0m>,v python3-curses
06:57<judd>No package named 'python3-curses' was found in amd64.
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06:58<at0m>,v python-curses
06:58<judd>No package named 'python-curses' was found in amd64.
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07:00<arto>at0m: It can be quite tricky to count Debian installs, have you seen some data?
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07:00<at0m>https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php can give stats, for those who report at least
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07:01<arto>at0m: popcon is voluntary
07:01<at0m>right. but gives some comparison
07:02<arto>at0m: yea, I guess it's the best we have
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07:02<at0m>that, and maybe some datacenters with VPS's have stats on centos/debian/win/.. installs
07:03<at0m>but that's more for comparing between servers, not servers vs desktops
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07:03<arto>sure
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07:04<at0m>on top, popcon can be skewed, for example privacy aware people who install tor are less likely to submit their stats to popcon
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07:04<at0m>so all related packages will be off, in popcon
07:04<arto>at0m: yes, I told my wife is anonymous, but she would not install it anyways
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07:05<at0m>that's all cool, having such freedom which lacks from most proprietary OS's
07:06<arto>it is anynumous, not my wife :)
07:06<at0m>we'll never know :p
07:06<arto>yes, those other os'es would never ask
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07:08<at0m>a popcon example: 16000 current nginx installs, 6000 firefox
07:09<arto>at0m: I'd guess FF is more popular
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07:09<at0m>yet there's more servers than browsers? nah
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07:12<arto>at0m: and there are for example file servers, which may not have web-server
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07:14<at0m>xorg installs: 100.000.
07:15<at0m>what would be a one that's on most servers? looked at apache2-utils, 80.000
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07:16<arto>perhaps ssh-server
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07:17<arto>openssh-server
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07:17<at0m>got that on all my machines
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07:18<at0m>160.000
07:18<arto>at0m: server? I have open-ssh server only on desktop, laptos are all clients
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07:19<arto>I don't install any server to laptops, which I often carry out of home
07:19<at0m>there's no danger in sshd with no root login and only key-based auth
07:19<at0m>so yea, on all my machines
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07:20<at0m>sshd is not samba or nfs =)
07:20<arto>at0m: I've done that too, no password login, no root login, but no server on laptop, that's my golden rule
07:21<at0m>https://i.imgur.com/263enxT.jpg
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07:22<at0m>ok gotta prepare for a session, take care =)
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07:22<arto>at0m: I've seen that same picture at least 3 times during 2 days
07:22<arto>at0m: you too!
07:22<at0m>ouch
07:22<at0m>o/
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08:32-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest705
08:32<Guest705>i'm a newbie
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08:33<Guest705>just looking around
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08:38<laptop>I had a question about noveau
08:38<laptop>nouveau drivers versus commercial for older legacy hardware
08:38<laptop>any difference?
08:38<petn-randall>laptop: Well, the one if free software, the other isn't.
08:38<petn-randall>*is
08:39<laptop>the problem is that one seems faster than the other
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08:39<laptop>it seems like intel has the best video drivers for linux
08:39<petn-randall>laptop: There you got another difference.
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08:40<laptop>can you get a debian build for a 32 bit system down to 100 mb?
08:40<laptop>ram at any time?
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08:40<petn-randall>laptop: Sure. What would that accomplish, though?
08:40<laptop>I have 1 gb memory (upgrading to 4 gb when the ram ships)
08:41<laptop>I was wondering if I use a 32 bit system on a 64 bit chip when I get the 4 gb
08:41<petn-randall>And you want to deliberately leave 9/10 of your RAM unused?
08:41<laptop>will it recognize all of it
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08:41<laptop>for browser etc
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08:41<petn-randall>That would count as used RAM.
08:42<laptop>would 32 bit seem all 4gb?
08:42<petn-randall>laptop: There are PAE kernels for i386 systems with more than 4 GB RAM.
08:42<petn-randall>laptop: However, if you have a amd64 CPU, why not install a amd64 Debian on it?
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08:44<bremner>laptop: be aware that not all applications in debian support i386 as well as they support amd64.
08:44<laptop>okay
08:44<laptop>also 64 bit is faster than 32 bit even with 4 gb ram
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08:46<bremner>ok bye then
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08:51<mrbug>hello
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10:38<toad_>Restoring a database in MariaDB (mysql) hangs. There are lots of reports of this on Google, but some of them seem to say it's fixed (in mysql, probably not in mariadb). Is this a matter of file a Debian bug and give up?
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10:41<bremner>there's no existing debian bug?
10:43<toad_>I don't think so ... hmmm, what to search for? backup, restore ...
10:44<toad_>Restore isn't really a proper operation, it's just "source blah.dump" ...
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10:44<toad_>It's been stuck on the same line for 15 minutes and is using no I/O and no CPU, and is on an SSD ...
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10:46<toad_>Haha ... "The following newer versions are available in the debian archive: unstable: ..."
10:46<toad_>Hmmm does that mean I have sid packages? Checking...
10:47<toad_>No, just stretch ... hmmm. Unhelpful :) "This might be fixed in sid ..."
10:47<bremner>toad_: sounds like you should ask for help in #debian-next, if not running stable
10:47<toad_>I *am* running stable
10:47<toad_>reportbug is complaining that there is a newer version in sid ... well no shit sherlock
10:48<toad_>So I should report it anyway
10:48<bremner>yes
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10:58<toad_>Hmmm, "debconf-show failed" ... is that to be expected?
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11:04<toad_>Hmmm that's interesting, it doesn't assign a bug number immediately? Is there some manual triage?
11:04<toad_>Probably it's against the wrong package too :(
11:04<toad_>(My fault)
11:05<arto>toad_: is your system ok?
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11:06<toad_>You mean re debconf-show?
11:06<arto>toad_: your computer, net connection, etc.
11:07<toad_>Should be
11:07<toad_>Often get problems with mythtv which might be due to the source database being slow
11:07<toad_>But this is creating a new one - the dump ran fine
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11:08<toad_>I'm accessing it over ssh, so internet is definitely working, and I've had a receipt from the BTS
11:08<arto>toad_: I almost file once a bug report for ranger, there was none, so researched a bit more, and it was my laptop which did not work properly. Just a possible scenario.
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11:08<toad_>Hmmm no, it's a local copy, not a receipt
11:09<toad_>Mail problems are possible but I fixed them a while back, I now have proper SPF records etc, sending to gmail works
11:09<toad_>Ah, just slow
11:10<toad_>(The email, not the database)
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11:10<arto>toad_: maybe I'd check in other computer too, to be sure
11:11<toad_>Good idea
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11:17<arto>toad_: and read the logs
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11:21<arto>and to sending to gmail, I've noticed the same, it's very slow, that's google, not your or mine Debian box
11:22<toad_>Oh crap
11:22<toad_>Sorry!
11:22<bremner>should "systemctl enable gdm" work on stretch?
11:23<bremner>It's babbling about unit files have no installation config
11:23<arto>Failed to enable unit: File gdm.service: No such file or directory
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11:23<bremner>arto: are you running gnome?
11:24<arto>bremner: gdm3
11:25<bremner>gdm3.service is a symlink to gdm.service for me
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11:25<arto>bremner: and to your guestion, no xfce, but I could run gdm
11:26<bremner>I can start it manually
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11:27<bremner>grmbl. I had to start it manually then reconfigure it
11:27<arto>remotely same, systemd will not finsih gpsd install, but I can still use it
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11:28-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #oolite-dev #oolite #debianfr #debian
11:29<toad_>So it turns out it was my fault - the disk was full and I hadn't read the daemon.log (mysql.log is always empty) ... Olaf is a really wonderful person for replying to my bug report :)
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11:29<arto>toad_: so filed report, well problem solved anyway
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11:41<toad_>When I su - to another user, mysql with socket auth still tries to use the original user ... what's going on here? su - user and su -l user don't change this
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11:45<laptop>what is the lightest debian distro
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11:46<arto>laptop: there is just one Debian
11:46<laptop>what about antix
11:46<dboles>others are
11:46<dboles>!based on debian
11:46<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
11:47<arto>laptop: Debian has many light DE's and such
11:47<laptop>I like debian more than arch
11:47<laptop>and ubuntu
11:47<arto>laptop: well, I have a old 10" notebook,2GB, but runs fine, XFCE, abiword, gnumeric, qupzilla, etc
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11:48<laptop>it seems to run fast
11:48<laptop>what processor
11:48<arto>laptop: single core atom
11:49<arto>Intel Atom N270
11:49<laptop>wow can you stream video and multitab chromium?
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11:49<arto>laptop: kernel has virtual 2nd core
11:49<laptop>oh good
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11:50<laptop>I amd dual core 1.7 ghz and 1 gb ram, going to upgrade to 4 gb
11:50<laptop>but it is still slow on chromium
11:50<laptop>chromium web browser on debian
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11:50<arto>laptop: I've chromium installed, but mainly use qupzilla, which is light browser
11:50<laptop>does it allow extensions?
11:50<laptop>like lastpass zenmate, etc?
11:51<arto>laptop: understood, Firefox and Chorium are the only supported in Debian
11:51<arto>laptop: the old extensions don't work anymore, Debian stable just upgraded to FF60
11:52<arto>laptop: but there are still some for the new FF in repo
11:52<arto>laptop: I don't know about chromium extensions, you know, google
11:53<laptop>I see
11:53<laptop>I can get a i5 4 gb on ebay for only $35 with shipping.
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11:54<arto>laptop: there are 3-4 extension to chromium too, not those that you mentioned
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11:56<arto>laptop: that's cheap
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11:58<robertozanandrea>.
11:59<arto>laptop: and updating memory from 1 to 4 gb would do good
12:00<arto>laptop: noticed when changeg 1gb to 2 gb, swap is almost never used
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12:32<kfogel>During the 9.5.0 installation process w/ full-disk encryption, there is that long step where the message says "The installer is now overwriting [your disk] with random data to prevent meta-information leaks from the encrypted volume. This step may be skipped by cancelling this action, albeit at the expense of a slight reduction of the quality of the encryption." A question:
12:33<kfogel>The way that message is worded, it indicates the issue is *not* about leaking data previously on the disk (when it was unencrypted), but rather about somehow revealing the boundaries/positions of encrypted blocks and thus making cryptanalysis slightly easier for an attacker?
12:33<kfogel>My disk is brand new; there is no data on it. If I skip this step, is there _any_ actual reduction in the quality of encryption?
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12:35<ppc64>kfogel: I havn't a clue about such things but my WAG is that a fresh from the factory disk won't need a surface wipe and then write with random data
12:36<dboles>maybe these: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/26594/filling-the-disk-with-random-data-prior-to-encryption / https://security.stackexchange.com/a/175849/81253
12:40<arto>I'd interpreting that also so, that meta-info is old info, which is not in a new disk
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12:42<arto>kfogel: and there are plenty of packages in Debian repo, which do hard time to any attacker
12:44<dboles>I interpret as 'meta info can include hints of how much data the disk had pre-encryption', etc.
12:45<dboles>and I think if the answer to that is 'none', there is still a theoretical leak of info about the pre-encryption state there, though i wouldn't want to say whether or not it is likely to matter in practice
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12:49<kfogel>ppc64, dboles, arto: Thanks for the responses (I got pulled afk by a phone call; just reading now).
12:52<kfogel>Interesting; that first link contains some argument that, even with a blank new disk, there is *some* new attack vector opened up by not filling with random data first. It's 36% done now anyway, so I'll just let it finish.
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12:54<arto>kfogel: well, if you work for NSA, or are in some high risk environment, you should care, otherwise, step on it !
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12:56<kfogel>arto: Excellent point :-).
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13:06<arto>kfogel: you are now installing, so the /home would be empty, you can crypt that now or later, and as I said a lot can be done to improve security
13:06<kfogel>arto: I'm doing full-disk encrypted anyway.
13:06<kfogel>arto: And everything in one partition.
13:07<arto>kfogel: so not more about that, full crypt, that's as ready as can be
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13:24<mnuhmnuh>i'd go with burning encrypted data onto cd/dvd and mailing that to my intended destination, then loading that onto whichever machine i wind up at; tails on usbkey would do that.
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13:26<arto>mnuhmnuh: when I needed a lot my notebook on the road while ago, I had /home crypted, in case it would have been stolen
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13:34<mnuhmnuh>i'd worry about border patrol more nowadays. new zealand demands access now. five eyes ... brave new world.
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13:35<arto>mnuhmnuh: ok, in that case your method would be more effective
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13:36<arto>I guess they would just seize my laptop
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13:37<mnuhmnuh>and you.
13:37<at0m>arto: you would enter your password or loose the laptop indeed
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13:39<arto>mnuhmnuh: err, I think New Zealand is counted to be a civilized country, do people just dissappear, like in, say China
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13:40<arto>offtopic
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13:47<mnuhmnuh>arto: techdirt thurs., travellers to nz give up pword or $3000 fine. eof.
13:48<arto>mnuhmnuh: wow, brave new world indeed
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14:07<arto>fprintd requires fingerprint to be read 5 times, that's stupid, writing password is much quicker. Can it be changed without compiling?
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14:12<arto>or perhaps it's more like people who suffer from memory loss
14:13<mnuhmnuh>arto: possibly tech. reason for 5x? multi-verify against fake finger?
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14:14<mnuhmnuh>those things have been tricked.
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14:14<arto>mnuhmnuh: I understand, but not everyone needs so high security
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14:16<arto>I think the user should decide that
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14:17<arto>fprint can be confifured to read 5 different fingers, if needed, but why allways 5
14:18<at0m>arto: on original scanning, when it's storing the fp?
14:18<arto>at0m: also to verify, and in login
14:19<arto>and when using sudo
14:20<at0m>a friend's kid unlocks his moms phone with his finger =)
14:20<arto>at0m: I don't let friends kids near my computers
14:22<arto>at0m: and in that case kid knew more about phones than his/her mother
14:22<arto>at0m: wchich is quite common these days
14:22<at0m>nah. just used finger.
14:23<arto>at0m: I guess it has to be setup before usage, I would not believe that even iPhone would accecpt any finger or cat
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14:25<at0m>arto: samsung phone, mom set it up for finger unlock, kid comes along, tries, and unlocks. no need to be very technical for either.
14:25<mamba>hello
14:25<arto>hello mamba
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14:26<at0m>then there's German PM who's fingerprint was retrieved from media pics. i lol'd.
14:26<arto>at0m: have not had phone with fingereader, I guess they are not very strict
14:27<arto>at0m: definetely any pic would not fool my fingerprint reader
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14:31<arto>technically it's a scanner or camera, but picture is amazing sharp, fprintd-demo shows miniatues
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14:31<hansvh>hi
14:31<arto>hi hansvh
14:32<hansvh>I am having a problem with my remote debian server. Can I ask a question in here?
14:32<arto>sure
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14:33<arto>hansvh: you can
14:33<hansvh>I have a remote debian-server which I could connect to via ssh. I updated the openssh-server and did a reboot. Since then I can't connect to the server anymore. If I do a nmap, the only port that's open is 25.
14:33<hansvh>I can startup a rescue system and login to the server and map the hdd to check config and logs
14:33<arto>hansvh: what was the port for ssh?
14:33<hansvh>22
14:34<hansvh>firewall is shorewall
14:34<hansvh>I didn't change anything
14:34<hansvh>in that config
14:35<hansvh>any idea how I can sort out the problem?
14:35<arto>hansvh: are you near that server?
14:35<hansvh>no can't access it physically
14:36<arto>hansvh: then it's quite tricky
14:36<hansvh>what should be checked if I could access it physically?
14:37<arto>hansvh: but if you can check the logs, that would be good start
14:37<hansvh>I can check the logs
14:37<arto>hansvh: first, if openssh-server is running
14:37<hansvh>can it be checked in the logs if the openssh-server starts when the server boots?
14:39<arto>hansvh: I think there is log entry, if openssh server did not start for some reason
14:39<arto>hansvh: and shorewall keeps logs too, if I remember right
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14:40<hansvh>the shorewall-init.log is empty
14:40<arto>at0m: you had ssh servers, what is logged?
14:41<hansvh>strange thing is that if I check the /var/log files
14:41<hansvh>none of them is changed today
14:42<hansvh>last change was yesterday when I could login
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14:42<arto>hansvh: are you sure it has booted? I quess you are if are connected
14:42<hansvh>now I am connected via the rescue system
14:42<hansvh>but I did a nmap and it gave me ok for ping
14:42<arto>hansvh: but how, if ssh is not working?
14:43<hansvh>well that's via a server hosting company
14:43<arto>hansvh: ok
14:43<arto>hansvh: it propably is up then
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14:45<arto>hansvh: how do you authenticate? keys or password
14:45<hansvh>password
14:46<arto>hansvh: what can you do in that 'rescue system' do you have shell access?
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14:47<hansvh>shell access and I can mount my hdd
14:47<hansvh>with config files on
14:47<hansvh>and logs and stuff
14:47<arto>hansvh: all right, that's excellent
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14:47<arto>hansvh: so ps aux | grep openssh-server
14:48<at0m>nothing in syslog for ssh. journalctl | grep ssh
14:48<hansvh>that's the problem. I am on the rescue system via ssh
14:48<arto>at0m: thanks
14:48<hansvh>seperate boot I guess
14:49<hansvh>so ssh is working on the rescue system
14:49<arto>hansvh: pc/server boots
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14:49<at0m>since systemd, logs are via journalctl. i should dive into that one day.
14:49<arto>at0m: thanks
14:49<arto>hansvh: journalctl -u openssh-server
14:49<hansvh>journalctl only gives the info for the running system?
14:50<arto>hansvh: but if you can ping, something is responding
14:50<arto>hansvh: and no, they are logs
14:50<hansvh>-- Logs begin at Sat 2018-10-06 20:39:14 CEST, end at Sat 2018-10-06 20:47:16 CE
14:50<hansvh>output of the command you said
14:51<arto>hansvh: thats after reboot, I quess
14:51<hansvh>well the system has to reboot to get into the rescue system
14:51<arto>hansvh: did you do that 'ps aux | grep openssh-server'
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14:52<hansvh>yep
14:52<hansvh>root 3321 0.0 0.0 17076 2328 pts/0 S+ 20:48 0:00 grep openssh-server
14:52<hansvh>but that's on the rescue system
14:53<arto>hansvh: seeems that rescues system will not start ssh
14:53<itd>hansvh: Use '-b -1' to view logs of the last boot.
14:53<itd>(If you have persistent logs.)
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14:57<hansvh>gives nothing
14:58<arto>hansvh: I'd suggest reboot, but wait if others have more ideas
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14:58<itd>hansvh: What exactly did you execute?
14:59<hansvh>I already tried different reboots
14:59<arto>hansvh: so updated openssh-server, then rebooted?
14:59<hansvh>itd: what you do mean?
14:59<hansvh>yep
14:59<hansvh>apt-get upgrade
14:59<arto>hansvh: what is different reboot?
15:00<hansvh>different reboots
15:00<hansvh>I mean many
15:00<hansvh>multiple
15:00<at0m>hansvh: can you review your /etc/ssh/sshd_config ? what error do you get on the ssh client?
15:00<hansvh>connection refused
15:01<arto>hansvh: I have openssh-server on desktop, it is started at boot
15:01<arto>hansvh: can you stop shorewall for testing
15:02<hansvh>I think it's started automatically during boot
15:02<hansvh>I remove the script from init.d ?
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15:02<arto>hansvh: it's different, systemd
15:02<itd>hansvh: Doesn't matter. (You said, "gives nothing". I assumed that was in response to my message. I was wondering which command you used. ('journalctl -u ... -b -1' or 'journalctl -b -1' or ...) If you want to enable persistent logging, read systemd's README.Debian.gz.)
15:03<hansvh>should I paste the sshd_config?
15:03<at0m>hansvh: this isnt going to solve your current issue, but here's what i do on any sshd update: 1) i update while ssh'd in. connection remains live during update. 2) i try to make a new ssh connection. then only when 2) works, i feel confident to close the session from 1). if 2) doesnt work, i can still fix from 1)
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15:03<arto>hansvh: try 'journalctl -b -1'
15:03<hansvh>Failed to look up boot -1: Cannot assign requested address
15:04<hansvh>at0m: that's a good way to work :-)
15:04<at0m>hansvh: if the sshd isnt running, you would get "Connection timed out"
15:04<arto>hansvh: sshhd_config probably is the same
15:04<at0m>hansvh: connection refused means you're either connecting as the wrong user, or uusing bad credentials
15:04<hansvh>I don't get to the login screen
15:05<arto>at0m: using password
15:05<hansvh>and when I nmap port 22 is not showing open
15:05<at0m>arto: yea i read, thanks
15:05<arto>so ssh-server is not up
15:05<arto>in this 'rescue mode'
15:05<at0m>hansvh: does the server have fail2ban? or, sshd_config own throttling may get in the way, too
15:06<hansvh>in rescue mode I can ssh to the server
15:06<arto>at0m: should still be seen in nmap
15:06<at0m>arto: on fail2ban? that kills it at iptables level
15:07<arto>at0m: really, I have it installed and did not know even that :)
15:07<hansvh>what's fail2ban?
15:07<arto>it bans addresses where login has failed
15:07<hansvh>in shorewall.conf I set the startup_enabled to no
15:07<at0m>fail2ban will make iptables DROP incoming connections from banned IP's, aka IP's that have multiple fails on login
15:08<hansvh>should I try to reboot
15:08<hansvh>to see if the problem is the firewall?
15:08<arto>hansvh: yes
15:08<at0m>reboot doesnt fix that. this isnt windows.
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15:08<arto>hansvh: try starting openssh-server
15:09<arto>hansvh: openssh-server &
15:09<at0m>both fail2ban and ssh server have timeout throttling, like #MaxStartups 10:30:100 or #MaxAuthTries 6 in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
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15:10<hansvh>hmm now I am getting a connection time out error
15:10<N1EA>Hello. I'm trying to install 32 bit Stable Debian using Debian Netinstall. I want Command Line Interface only, I also tried to install using speech / espeak. I keep getting Debian Mate Desktop even though I unselect Debian Desktop - selection 1 on software selection. How can I accomplish what I need?
15:10<arto>hansvh: ps aux | grep openssh-server
15:10<hansvh>can't ssh into the server now
15:11<hansvh>for that I have to reboot into rescue mode
15:11<arto>N1EA: you can purge many packages, or reinstall and select 'expert install'
15:11<hansvh>ah no
15:11<arto>hansvh: can't you start server?
15:11<hansvh>I am getting the connection refused again
15:12<at0m>hansvh: are you sure you're connecting as the right user?
15:12<N1EA>I'm doing 'expert install' but when I do NOT select Debian Desktop - which is selection 1, it still installs a Mate Desktop.
15:12<N1EA>Is it because I'm using the speaking installer?
15:12<arto>N1EA: we can try that other method
15:12<hansvh>it's not even possible to get to the login screen to enter the user
15:13<N1EA>Which other method arto?
15:13<arto>hansvh: how do you get timeout then?
15:13<arto>N1EA: removin lot of packages
15:13<hansvh>I use putty on windows pc now
15:13<hansvh>only get black screen and popup window
15:13<at0m>hansvh: then make a preset/config where you set the port, user, IP, ..
15:14<arto>hansvh: which is your normal method?
15:14<hansvh>like I am doing now
15:14<hansvh>I enter the ip of the server
15:14<hansvh>I connect
15:14<arto>hansvh: ok
15:14<hansvh>than I give the user and pass
15:15<hansvh>can it be the firewall?
15:15<at0m>oh wow. i just found one of my machines did not have PasswordAuthentication no and i could log in with the pass. fixed that.
15:15<arto>hansvh: possible, but you said you stopped it
15:15<hansvh>shorewall uses iptables if I am not mistaking
15:15<arto>hansvh: every firewall uses
15:15<hansvh>arto: not sure if the no option in shorewall.conf is enough
15:16<hansvh>arto: how can I be sure iptables is loaded?
15:16<at0m>hansvh: it always is. it's part of the kernel
15:16<arto>hansvh: check if is running: ps aux | grep shorewall
15:16<N1EA>I tried that in virtual machine to make a remaster but it would not boot. I think I should try that again but this time install ceni by using smxi and then removeing the X packages. What a pain. Installing the server might be an option.
15:16<N1EA>Thanks,
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15:17<hansvh>arto: in the rescue system?
15:17<arto>N1EA: or installaling just base system, without anyd DE
15:17<hansvh>arto: cause I can't ssh into it right now
15:17<arto>hansvh: we should get rid of this 'rescue system', but if you have rebooted already, I don't know how
15:18<hansvh>the rescue system is the only way to login to the server
15:18<hansvh>now
15:18<hansvh>can I set an option to log the booting process to a log file?
15:18<arto>hansvh: thats clear
15:19<hansvh>so I can check if openssh-server is booting?
15:19<arto>hansvh: can you read dmesg?
15:19<hansvh>I think that all of the "programs" I have to run, only check the current boot
15:19<N1EA>arto: Even if I install from Debian-Netinstall and unselect DEBIAN DESKTOP, the MATE desktop still gets installed.
15:20<arto>hansvh: you have syslogd?
15:20<hansvh>cause dmesg only gives info from latest boot
15:20<hansvh>syslogd? Did I have to install that or is it automatically included?
15:20<arto>N1EA: but if you select 'expert install', you can install base system
15:20<N1EA>arto: I just tried it via EXPERT INSTALL using speech and I still get MATE DESKTOP.
15:21<arto>N1EA: just base system, no speech, nothing, they can be added later
15:22<arto>hansvh: /var/log/syslogd ?
15:22<arto>hansvh: /var/log/syslog
15:22<N1EA>arto: I will try that I seem to be going around in circles. I get to the place where it says you have installed base system, select additional software. That's probably where I should stop. I'll try that. Thanks.
15:22<mnuhmnuh>hansvh: if you can mkdir /var/log/journal you'll have persistent systemd journalctl logging, unless you've specifically disabled that.
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15:22<hansvh>syslog only gives me info till yesterday
15:22<at0m>hansvh: on linux, firewall is not required as on Windows. on linux, you would just control what services are listening on what port and interface (say, database server only on 127.0.0.1:3306, not on LAN IP)
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15:22<hansvh>Oct 5 21:38:04 localhost systemd[1]: Stopping System Time Synchronized.
15:22<hansvh>Oct 5 21:38:04 localhost systemd[1]: Stopped target System Time Synchronized.
15:22<hansvh>Oct 5 21:38:04 localhost systemd[1]: Stopping User Manager for UID 1000...
15:22<hansvh>Oct 5 21:38:04 localhost rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion="8.4.2" x-pid="1039" x-info="http://www.rsyslog.com"] exiting on signal 15.
15:23<arto>hansvh: that's because of 'rescue mode'
15:23<hansvh>but it's the log on my hdd of the normal system which I mounted
15:24<arto>hansvh: but do you have syslog.1, syslog.2.gz, etc
15:24<at0m>hansvh: right, rescue mode is also known as "single user", only root can login there
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15:24<mnuhmnuh>hansvh: paste more than 5 lines, and bots will kick you. use paste.debian.net
15:25<arto>at0m: single user mode does not kick up ssh?
15:25<mnuhmnuh>s/5/4/
15:25<at0m>arto: not sure if it brings up network even
15:25<arto>at0m: yea, just the base, to fix things
15:25<hansvh>sorry
15:25<arto>hansvh: you did not know
15:26<hansvh>at0m: how can I check which services will be booted?
15:26<hansvh>and on which ports?
15:26<arto>hansvh: if you only could boot
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15:27<arto>hansvh: there is something wrong if it stays at single user mode
15:28<arto>hansvh: you could use nmap then, and continue
15:29<hansvh>I will try to look further into this
15:29<hansvh>I gotta go
15:29<hansvh>thanks for the help
15:29<arto>hansvh: sorry could not help
15:29<hansvh>I probably check back later
15:29<hansvh>here
15:29<hansvh>see you later
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15:42<arto>apt has logs, if only had rememebered that
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17:02<psutton>hi
17:03<at0m>psutton: sup
17:03<psutton>just connected here as the guys on freenode said that the official channel(s) are on oftc
17:03<psutton>i'll do the register nick stuff later
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17:12<psutton>does LxTerminal support green text on black background ?
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17:21<mnuhmnuh>what's lxterminal?
17:21<psutton>one of the termalal emulators for debian
17:22<mnuhmnuh>ah, lxde. i'd assume so.
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17:22<psutton>yeah
17:22<psutton>sorry
17:23<psutton>very nice, esp with 3gb ram
17:23<psutton>it should be 4 but one of the ram sticks was playing up
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17:25<mnuhmnuh>i'm using mate in 4gb, only .872gb used w 3 xterms & ff-esr & uxterm/irssi & emacs.
17:25<psutton>:)
17:25<psutton>yeah i moved to Debian from mint, got warzone2100 working :)
17:26<psutton>and it also works properly with the Arduino
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17:47<rmotao>where can I find CUPS logs?
17:47<rmotao>never mind
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20:38<Synthea>Can I force a usb hard disk with a specific ID to be seen ever in /dev/sd[myletter] position?
20:39<Synthea>For example, SATA adapter 0424:7015, if there's an hard disk for it I want it in /dev/sdc
20:40-!-illwieckz_ is now known as illwieckz
20:40<at0m>Synthea: to mount, you can also use LABEL or UUID options, if that's what you're trying to accomplish
20:41<at0m>say, in fstab, UUID=0424-7015 instead of /dev/sdx?
20:42<Synthea>Oh, thx, didn't remember that
20:43<Synthea>at0m, veracrypt partitions don't have uuid
20:44<at0m>Synthea: if the usb stick is called (tune2fs -L $NAME /dev/sdx? to set the label) VERA, fstab also does LABEL=VERA
20:45<at0m>Synthea: so maybe it has a LABEL if it doesn't have UUID
20:45<Synthea>at0m, mmmh nope
20:46<at0m>Synthea: ls -al /dev/disk/by-* | grep sdc shows no label or uuid?
20:49<Synthea>at0m, there's something in /dev/disk/by-id
20:50<at0m>Synthea: from "man fstab": "It's also possible to use PARTUUID= and PARTLABEL="
20:50<Synthea>at0m, I have all I need thx
20:50<at0m>sorted? cool
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22:47<greg2>So I have an issue with pulseaudio I'm not sure if it's a quirk in my setup or not
22:47<greg2>basically I have to start the process and then kill it and start it again
22:47<greg2>on my laptop I have to do it twice
22:48<greg2>in my i3 config this is like "exec --no-startup-id pulseaudio --start && pulseaudio --kill && pulseaudio --start"
22:48<greg2>on my laptop it takes a third time
22:48<greg2>I'm running debian buster right now
22:49<greg2>after I do that it's stable but it's probably something prone to break again
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23:04<awal1>when swap is supposed to be called? at which percentage?
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23:10<awal1>% of ram in use i mean
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23:34<somiaj>awal1: it really depends on how much cache is needed, what the ram is being used for, if your system has idel time.
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23:38<awal1>somiaj, a bit complex to understand yeah.
23:39<awal1>my question was bcoz I noticied that my system calls swap almost when I still have like 1 gb of ram free but not sure if it is the standard
23:40<awal1>probably it is referred somewhere in linux code (?) or I don't know
23:41<awal1>somiaj, idel time?
23:43<awal1>ok, i get what it means
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23:59<mnuhmnuh>greg2: fwiw, buster/sid --> #debian-next
---Logclosed Sun Oct 07 00:00:14 2018