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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-11-19

---Logopened Mon Nov 19 00:00:15 2018
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05:59<grummund>Hi, [where] is it documented the intended purpose of the default system users installed in /etc/passwd ?
06:00*grummund is specifically interested in the 'backup' user but more generally also.
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06:14<grove>grummund: /usr/share/doc/base-passwd/users-and-groups.txt.gz
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06:15<grummund>grove: thank you so much :)
06:16<grummund>although what it actually says about the 'backup' user: "Presumably so backup/restore responsibilities can be locally delegated to someone without full root permissions? HELP: Is that right? Amanda reportedly uses this, details?"
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06:16<grummund>so even the maintainer is not sure :p
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06:37<grove>grummund: I didn't actually read that file, I checked debian policy, saw (in section 9.2.2) that it was mostly delegated to base-passwd, and then checked whether that had any documentation. Sounds like that file is somewhat of an afterthought
06:38<grummund>grove: thanks.
06:39<grummund>looks like i need to create a separate user for what i want anyway, that is to receive backups over rsync yet no login shell.
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08:26<limbo>Is debian on powerPC G5 (powermac g5) supported/is the install image on the main download page? The page says something about ppc64el not supporting powermacs.
08:31<blast007>"Debian/ppc64el requires, at minimum, a POWER8 processor machine. ... The ppc64el port is not aimed for old Powerpc Macintosh machines, and, at the moment, there is no way to install it on this class of machines." https://wiki.debian.org/ppc64el
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08:38<blast007>limbo: seems like Debian Jessie was the last release to have powerpc support
08:45<DNS>yep https://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-gnu-linux-9-stretch-to-drop-support-for-the-powerpc-ppc-architecture-509849.shtml
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09:35<limbo>Dang. Any suggestions for other distros that do support G5s? I'm just going to be using this thing as a (web) server, so graphical packages aren't needed.
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09:50<DNS>my suggestion: sell the g5 and get a device/arch thats still supported by debian
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11:15<blast007>limbo: openSUSE might be an option
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11:33<limbo>I've given up and used a spare raspberry pi.
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15:40<DebianNoob>Is this the help channel?
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15:40<danopa>yes
15:41<DebianNoob>Ok - Dell pc running Radeon ATI 8590 I believe - obvious first issues is resoltuion. MOnitor at work was fine 1920x1080 nice and crisp 32" HP at home is a disaster of scaling. Started to try Xandr and was getting gamma not found etc.
15:42<DebianNoob>Where do I verify driver loaded / card I have and get started on getting this sorted out?
15:43<petn-randall>-q dpkg
15:43<petn-randall>woops, disregard
15:44<petn-randall>!radeon firmware
15:44<dpkg>Binary-only firmware for the radeon <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-linux-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance in the <radeon> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>. This is not required for use of the <fglrx> driver.
15:44<petn-randall>DebianNoob: Try installing the firmware for that card. ^^^
15:45<DebianNoob>Ok so I have to use their driver the native linux is not goof for it?
15:45<DebianNoob>good
15:46<DebianNoob>VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Oland XT [Radeon HD 8670 / R7 250/350] (rev 83)
15:47<blast007>the firmware is not the same as the driver
15:47<blast007>the open driver will use the proprietary firmware
15:47<DebianNoob>Ok where do I start
15:47<blast007>read what dpkg said
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15:48<DebianNoob>dpkg -q mentions installing packages
15:48<dpkg>DebianNoob: no idea
15:49<blast007>I'm talking about the message that starts with "Binary-only firmware for the radeon"
15:49<DebianNoob>SO I want the non free route or the fglrx - and is the fglrs the linux
15:50<blast007>no
15:50<DebianNoob>I need this "firmware-linux-nonfree"
15:50<blast007>you want to enable non-free sources ( /msg dpkg non-free sources ) and then install firmware-linux-nonfree and reboot
15:51<DebianNoob>ok let me search on that command for a bit
15:51<blast007>which command?
15:52<DebianNoob>arg frustrating hang on
15:54<DebianNoob>I guess this is why people use ubuntu
15:54<mnuhmnuh>DebianNoob: note, dpkg is an irc bot. the "/msg dpkg ..." is how you ask it something.
15:54<DebianNoob>ok that helps
15:55<DebianNoob>dpkg> firmware-linux-nonfree
15:55<dpkg>i don't know, DebianNoob
15:55<DebianNoob>ugh
15:56<blast007>!non-free sources
15:56<dpkg>Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
15:56<mnuhmnuh>try "/msg dpkg non-free sources"
15:57<DebianNoob>ok best way to edit this file in debian?
15:57<ToBeFree>Debian is widely appreciated for its clear distinction between an operating system using only free software, and one that contains proprietary software
15:57<DebianNoob>I read that - but it sound slike I HAVE to have this non free driver
15:58<ToBeFree>DebianNoob: this may be a chance to try the "nano" editor on the command line, or -- if you would like to use a graphical editor of your choice, you may type "sudo whatevereditoryoulike /etc/apt/sources.list" in a terminal
15:58<ToBeFree>gedit maybe, or kate, or mousepad, I don't know your setup
15:58<mnuhmnuh>DebianNoob: login as root or use sudo. vi or emacs or nano /etc/apt/sources.list
15:58<DebianNoob>I think I have Kate - let me check
15:58<ToBeFree>DebianNoob: I highly recommend against trying vi or emacs at this point
16:01<DebianNoob>so I add deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main (contrib non-free)
16:02<DebianNoob>to the two ftp lines
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16:03<DebianNoob>or the top two cdrom
16:03<blast007>ignore the cdrom lines as those are probably commented out (and won't have non-free firmware anyway)
16:04<blast007>just modify the http lines so that they end with 'main contrib non-free' instead of just 'main'
16:04<DebianNoob>ok and Kate cant write it out - where did I go wrong
16:04<blast007>you have to run your text editor as root
16:05<ToBeFree>you may type "sudo whatevereditoryoulike /etc/apt/sources.list" in a terminal
16:06<DebianNoob>ok another dumb one - if I added sudo pass and a "mike" pass - why does it not take the mike pass when asked?
16:06<DebianNoob>"mike is not in the sudoers file"
16:06<blast007>did you set a root password when you installed Debian?
16:06<ToBeFree>ah. Enter the following instead, and press return: "su"
16:06<DebianNoob>yep - let me try root but its asking for mike
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16:06<mnuhmnuh>su -
16:07<blast007>yeah, then use 'su -' as they mention to elevate to root, and then run 'kate /etc/apt/sources.list'
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16:09<DebianNoob>wow this is something else
16:09<ToBeFree>?
16:09<DebianNoob>kate
16:09<ToBeFree>the design may differ from your user design
16:10<DebianNoob>first off - why is my voluem going up on its own
16:11<ToBeFree>don't care about volume now, running graphical programs as root can have funny side effects. Let's get the graphics drivers finished. :)
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16:11<DebianNoob>not connected to the dbus server
16:11<DebianNoob>when i went into kat eas su
16:11<DebianNoob>kate as su
16:11<blast007>is kate running with the sources.list?
16:11<ToBeFree>DebianNoob: that is a notice in the terminal, you mean?
16:12<DebianNoob>yes
16:12<ToBeFree>DebianNoob: or an error that prevents you from starting it?
16:12<ToBeFree>ignore notices
16:12<DebianNoob>frustrating not being able to do things I have done before
16:12<ToBeFree>I guess my "su" may have to do with it? @mnuhmnuh
16:13<DebianNoob>ok i am in su - root@machinename
16:13<DebianNoob>if I type kate i get an error
16:13<ToBeFree>what exactly did you enter, "su" or "su -"? I guess there is a difference I have not thought of
16:13<DebianNoob>su
16:13<DebianNoob>I dont think su- was allowed
16:13<ToBeFree>ok, try: "exit", "su -"
16:13<ToBeFree>there is a space
16:13<DebianNoob>exit
16:14<ToBeFree>my fault, if this fixes the problem
16:14<DebianNoob>ok in root now not home root
16:14<ToBeFree>try kate again
16:15<DebianNoob>ok the kate/etc and all that comes back as no such file
16:15<DebianNoob>kate opens kate - going in there now
16:15<ToBeFree>If you'd like me to attempt fixing the command: what is the exact command you tried? Else: Feel free to use kate's "Open" to find the file, should work too
16:16<DebianNoob>cannot browse to damn file and can bearly read anything fir to graphics
16:16<DebianNoob>due to grafx
16:16<ToBeFree>hmm. Then close kate and let's try to get that command fixed
16:16<ToBeFree>what exactly did you enter? You may need to right-click and copy instead of pressing Ctrl+C.
16:16<DebianNoob>in kate i have root and computer and nothing is browsable
16:17<ToBeFree>okay; you mentioned that kate didn't find the file
16:17<ToBeFree>what exactly did you enter (best copy it, not type it manually here)
16:17<DebianNoob>I am in /root in the term
16:17<DebianNoob>ls
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16:17<ToBeFree>ok, "ls" will likely have shown nothing, I guess
16:17<ToBeFree>or not much
16:17<DebianNoob>right
16:17<DebianNoob>wrong window
16:17<DebianNoob>pwd /root
16:18<ToBeFree>you entered "pwd" and it said "/root"? ok
16:18<DebianNoob>right
16:18<ToBeFree>but you said: "ok the kate/etc and all that comes back as no such file"
16:18<ToBeFree>what caused this error?
16:18<DebianNoob>right
16:18<piper>as root su - nano etc/apt/sources.list
16:19<DebianNoob>kate/etc/apt/sources.list
16:19<DebianNoob>-su: kate/etc/apt/sources.list: No such file or directory
16:19<ToBeFree>yeah, you need a space between the command and the file :)
16:19<ToBeFree>kate /etc/apt/sources.list
16:19<DebianNoob>su - kate/etc/apt/sources.list
16:19<DebianNoob>No passwd entry for user 'kate/etc/apt/sources.list'
16:19<ToBeFree>wait
16:19<ToBeFree>you are root right now? "whoami"
16:20<DebianNoob>whoami
16:20<DebianNoob>root
16:20<DebianNoob>root user
16:20<mnuhmnuh>kate /etc/apt/sources.list
16:20<ToBeFree>ok. Now you can enter, without su,
16:20<ToBeFree>kate /etc/apt/sources.list
16:20<DebianNoob>kate/etc/apt/sources.list
16:20<DebianNoob>-su: kate/etc/apt/sources.list: No such file or directory
16:21<DebianNoob>laughing right now - trying to edi t atext file
16:21<DebianNoob>unreal
16:21<mnuhmnuh>kate space /etc/...
16:21<piper>kate SPACE /etc/apt/sources.list
16:21<ToBeFree>there is a space missing between "kate" and the /
16:21<ToBeFree>"kate" is the command, and the file name is "/etc/apt/sources.list"
16:21<DebianNoob>got it right - open in kat enow- brb
16:22<DebianNoob>deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
16:23<DebianNoob>ok did the same both both http lines - so I understand I am letting my repositories allow non free software
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16:23<DebianNoob>File Save
16:23<ToBeFree>you might like to paste the whole content of the file at http://paste.debian.org before closing the editor
16:24<ToBeFree>feel free to give us a link to the paste, because if there is any error, this allows us to see it. :)
16:24<ToBeFree>wait, that link is broken
16:24<ToBeFree>http://paste.debian.net/
16:24<piper>http://paste.debian.net/
16:25<DebianNoob>ok pasted
16:25<ToBeFree>we can't magically see it :)
16:25<ToBeFree>need a link
16:25<DebianNoob>http://paste.debian.net/1052383/
16:26<ToBeFree>(ah well, there is a list of recents) thanks :)
16:26-!-jhutchins_wk [~jonathan@00011b69.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:26<mnuhmnuh>or, just "apt-get update && apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree". apt-get will say whether you got it.
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16:28<mnuhmnuh>while still in root.
16:29<piper>apt update; apt install firmware-linux-free firmware-linux-nonfree
16:30<DebianNoob>god this is something - so if it wants root pw why does it ask for mike pw?
16:33<DebianNoob>so now it wants a cdrom I do not have
16:33<DebianNoob>but in root it did try and update
16:34<DebianNoob>I do have my usb intall dvd bu it is looking for a cdrom
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16:42<bobbyk2>hello, can anyone help me with tftpd-hpa under stretch ?
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16:43<DebianNoob>Media change: please insert the disc labeled.... (but I have a usb key)
16:43<DebianNoob>Should I burn the DVD1
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16:47<bobbyk2>just curious, is usb bootable ?
16:48<DebianNoob>bootable yes
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16:50<DebianNoob>burning dvd1
16:50<bobbyk2>hmm,am a nub too, but used the dvd
16:52<bobbyk2>so back to my problem: debian stretch- have installed xinet, tftp client, and tftpd-hpa. Client works fine, but server wont start because ports are already used
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16:53<bobbyk2>seems tftpd-hpa is auto starting from call in init.d, where client is starting from xinetd.d
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16:55<bobbyk2>I removed the tftp from from xinitd.d to get client from autostarting, and server now starts but refuses all attempts from remote clients to put or get files.
16:56<bobbyk2>I'm unsure what to even look for now
17:00<Brigo>bobbyk2, you have to figure out why remote clients can't write.
17:00<Brigo>bobbyk2, or read, maybe a configuration issue
17:00<bobbyk2>the server refuses the connection, client says ports closed on remote server
17:01<bobbyk2>both pc's are barefoot, running across a crossed cable- no router
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17:02<DebianNoob>find the scan port command?
17:03<DebianNoob>nestat and or nstat?
17:03<DebianNoob>netstat
17:03<bobbyk2>port shows open udp 69
17:03<DebianNoob>ok got that already
17:03<bobbyk2>server process is attached, but doesn't indicate listening
17:06<bobbyk2>not unsure forlder permissions arent the problem as tftpd-hpa installed a new user account when it installed, so I just used the path in the init.d for the server, and created the folder there, giving ownership to the new account
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17:08<DebianNoob>are logs created anywhere
17:08<bobbyk2>IIRC it was /srv/tftp , and i chown -R tftp tftp
17:09<bobbyk2>ya, syslog doesn't show any more process conflicts so I don't know where else to look
17:09<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: if you have a line in your sources.list that starts with deb cdrom, you need to edit it
17:10<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: to put a "#" at the start of that line
17:12<DebianNoob>burned the dvd and getting errors possible missing firmware -
17:12<DebianNoob>this was from dvd 1
17:12<DebianNoob>ran update comman again seems to be done
17:13<DebianNoob>The repository 'cdrom://[Debian GNU/Linux 9.6.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD Binary-1 20181110-11:34] stretch Release' does not have a Release file.
17:13<DebianNoob>N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
17:13<DebianNoob>maybe not
17:13<DebianNoob>firmware-linux-nonfree is already the newest version (20161130-4).
17:14<DebianNoob>good or bad?
17:14<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: see my advice above, forget the cdrom, just use the network
17:15<bobbyk2>ahh, I got the releasefile error too
17:16<DebianNoob>ok
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17:19<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: If you see that message about the latest version, it looks like you already got it. that is in fact the correct version in stretch.
17:20<DebianNoob>back in Kate stuck at root and cannot browse
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17:21<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: if you are in the directory /root you won't find much . do "cd /" before you start.
17:22<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: or browse to parent / higher directory, to escape from /root
17:25<DebianNoob>fighting with sudo psw which for the life of me I dont know why it asks for mike pw!
17:26<DebianNoob>Ok - I know I never made it more thn 1 day with Linux - please explain if I set a root/sudo pw why does it ask for mike?
17:27<DebianNoob>and how can I set an easier root pw because it is not taking a cut and paste
17:27<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: see: man sudo
17:27<sqrt{not}>DebianNoob: if you use the "su" command, you type the root password, if you use "sudo" you type mike's password
17:27<DebianNoob>ok that helps
17:27<DebianNoob>see: Windows 10 (sarcasm)
17:28<DebianNoob>I am here: mike@deska:/etc/apt$
17:28<DebianNoob>justwant to edit sources
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17:28<piper>or make it very simple and less complicated as root su - nano etc/apt/sources.list
17:29<piper>make it look like #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.6.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD Binary-1 20181110-11:34]/ stretch contrib main \
17:29<piper>without the /
17:30<DebianNoob>justwant to edit sourcesno pw entry - nevermind reading the man page and if I cannot get it I have to stop this is silly
17:31<DebianNoob>I must be dense no mention os how to pass the PWD in th em man page
17:33<bobbyk2>once it's installed, dont run as root. I learned that the hard way
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17:34<piper>DebianNoob: type su - then root password hit enter then type nano etc/apt/sources.list i have no idea about sudo stuff, never used it never will
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17:35<bobbyk2>sudo is easy, once I found sudoer on a net search
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17:35<DebianNoob>unbelieveable!
17:36<DebianNoob>su- or su- -pw or - pw
17:36<DebianNoob>su space - space pw
17:36<piper>su space -
17:36<DebianNoob>I wanted stable and liked KDE but this is torture
17:37<bobbyk2>stick it out, it gets easier
17:37<DebianNoob>no command found by adding passwortd after su -
17:37<piper>well i haven't used stable since woody, so i can't help
17:37<DebianNoob>no it's su space dash then enter first
17:38<piper>but it should be no different than sid using su
17:38<petn-randall>DebianNoob: `su -`
17:38<DebianNoob>now I am back in root with nothing showing up as LS is that ok
17:38<petn-randall>Without the quotes. It's not that complex.
17:38<bobbyk2>pwd
17:39<DebianNoob>did nano etc and have a blank file called source slist
17:39<DebianNoob>can you feel my blood pressure?
17:39<DebianNoob>strangely complex
17:39<bobbyk2>took me 3 days to destroy my first install
17:40<DebianNoob>su - then enter makes a difference
17:40<DebianNoob>rather then su -password
17:40<DebianNoob>simple video driver
17:40<bobbyk2>:)
17:42<DebianNoob>Let me ask this. Why is this so complicated? Is thi soffering some sort of massive security over windows or is this just a porrly designed os?
17:42<DebianNoob>on the flipside powershell is probably equally as convolvuded
17:43<piper>nano SPACE etc/apt/sources.list that is empty
17:43<piper>it shouldn't be
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17:45<DebianNoob>I think I got it done - where can I poaste a large amount of text?
17:45<piper>same place as before http://paste.debian.net/
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17:48<DebianNoob>http://paste.debian.net/1052395/ - added the # to cdrom
17:48<DebianNoob>at least I understand what that was doing
17:48<DebianNoob>the #
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17:51<DebianNoob>So since I added more sources for software, my system will auto detect the software needed on next reboot based on its analysis of my pci subsystem, is this how that works>
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17:52<DebianNoob>Why would this same machine have worked perfectly attached to a Dell monitor today?
17:53<DebianNoob>Is this next: apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree libgl1-mesa-dri xserver-xorg-video-ati
17:54<petn-randall>DebianNoob: Ubuntu for example will offer you a GUI for all that. Ubuntu is a lot more "newbie"-friendly than Debian. But a lot of power of the OS comes from using the shell.
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17:55<DebianNoob>I see how powerful the shell can be, and fast if you know what your doing
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17:56<petn-randall>DebianNoob: If you're struggling this hard with Debian, you might either want to get some guidance with the local Linux user group (they're usually nice people which will give you lots of tips and tricks, and general explanations), or dual boot Debian with your other OS for a while, or use Ubuntu.
17:57<mnuhmnuh>DebianNoob: the packaging system (apt*) will see new/fixed/changed when you do update; apt-get update, aptitude update, pick one.
17:57<DebianNoob>I ran Mint hated the way it looked - would be bakck to Kbuntu if I cant hang with this
17:57<mnuhmnuh>apt update, synaptic update, ...
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17:59<DebianNoob>going to reboot and see what happens
17:59<mnuhmnuh>looks can be changed, anyway you want it to be.
18:00<DebianNoob>will I have to be in xandr or will it autodetect my hp 32" at 2440 or similar?
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18:06<DEbianNoob>I am back and at a massive high resolution. Amazing.
18:07<DEbianNoob>thank you
18:08<bobbyk2>synapic is nice
18:10<bobbyk2>anyhoo- should I be changing my 'user' in tftpd-hpa from 'tftp' to something else to get it to stop refusing connections ?
18:11<bobbyk2> also, the '-s' in server_args means th client has to specifiy one directory, does that mean my tftp folder needs to be in the root dir ?
18:13<bobbyk2>I would've though the tftp default directory puts/gets files from there without the client needing to specify a directory
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18:16<samnob>bobbyk2: The tftp daemon will have it's own idea of 'root' directory that it presents to the clients, which is more or less unrelated to the root of the machine's filesystem.
18:17<bobbyk2>so i really don't need the -s if I'm on a lan with trusted clients
18:17<samnob>Also tftpd's tend to have some kind of "no create" rule by default, where you can't upload a new file, but can replace an existing.
18:18<bobbyk2>I already added the -c arguement, but it didn't help
18:19<bobbyk2>weirdly the client is unforgiving, it just dump files in the users home dir if a dir isn't specified
18:21<bobbyk2>stupid question- when a client tries to get a file from the serve- what does the client logon as ? My w32 client doesn't have an option to login 'as' somebody
18:22<samnob>Yeah no users in tftp.
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18:23<bobbyk2>my server is setup to 'srv/tftp' as it's directory, so the client doesn't need to specify a dir unless the server is setup with '-s', right ?
18:23<samnob>I think, the client would not need to specify in either case.
18:24<bobbyk2>hmm..
18:25<samnob>lots of tftp clients have no configuration beyond hostname/IP and filename.
18:25<bobbyk2>since I removed the xinitd.d 'tftp' file to get the client from starting, will it affect the tftpd-hpa server from running ?
18:26<bobbyk2>I'm still stunned the server is starting with init.d
18:26<samnob>Don't confuse init and inet.
18:27<bobbyk2>:)
18:27<bobbyk2>im trying not to, but the server is autostarting, where the client was also and crashing because the server took the port
18:28<samnob>Are you intentionally running the client and server on the same machine?
18:29<bobbyk2>well, it wasn't my intention, but somehow installing both got both to autolaunch on boot
18:29<bobbyk2>I removed the tftp file from xinetd.d to get the client from starting
18:30<bobbyk2>the server still starts on boot- which I'll have to figure out how to stop once I can get it working
18:32<bobbyk2>sadly I did what I needed to do using a garbage picked laptop and a free windows server, but this debian server still taunts me even tho I don't really need it atm
18:34<bobbyk2>2 weeks trying to get it working, and 30 seconds later it works on a trashed xp laptop
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18:35<samnob>Sounds like garbage XP laptops are underrated ;-P
18:35<bobbyk2>heh
18:35<bobbyk2>if it had a keyboard and a screen it might be usable
18:36<samnob>Are you trying to load network gear's firmware and configs or PXE booting? Or is there something else one does with tftp these days?
18:37<bobbyk2>owell, I'll bring the config with me tomorrow so I can post it, guess I'll kick the daemon around some mre tonight
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21:54<DEbianNoob>Thanks for the Radeon tip earlier, got my video up and running.
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 20 00:00:17 2018