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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-12-24

---Logopened Mon Dec 24 00:00:50 2018
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01:20<mnuhmnuh>i like weechat. now i've a mountain of ~/.weechat/* to crawl through.
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10:40-!-broseph is "Timothy Kalange, O.S.B." on #debian-next #debian
10:43<broseph>There is a lot of "documentation" out there about using the proprietary NVidia driver. I used the guide at https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers but I still seem to be using the nouveau drivers.
10:44<broseph>I don't suppose anyone has any pointers?
10:44<broseph>nvidia-settings says I'm not using the NVidia driver.
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11:09<mnuhmnuh>!nvidia
11:09<dpkg>Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net.
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11:55<jelly>broseph: what does "nvidia-detect" say when you install and run it, which driver is required for your card?
11:56<broseph>jelly: https://pastebin.com/2zSqR4fi
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11:56<broseph>It is recommended to install nvidia-driver. I thought I already had that installed.
11:57<broseph>nvidia-driver is already the newest version (390.87-4).
11:59<jelly>okay, that's a necessary step but is not all that's needed
11:59<jelly>!nvidia dkms
11:59<dpkg>For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf». Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist.
12:00<broseph>dkms is already the newest version (2.6.1-1).
12:00<broseph>linux-headers-amd64 is already installed at the requested version (4.18+100)
12:01<jelly>broseph: you also want to make sure the package for kernel headers, for the _running_ kernel, to be installed
12:01<broseph>nvidia-kernel-dkms is already the newest version (390.87-4).
12:01<jelly>broseph: what does "uname -r" say?
12:02<broseph>linux-headers-4.18.0-3-all-amd64/testing,now 4.18.20-2 amd64 [installed]
12:02<broseph>4.18.0-3-amd64
12:02<jelly>good
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12:03<jelly>broseph: and does "dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-kernel-dkms" show nvidia blob kernel side of the driver as successfully built for 4.18.0-3-amd64?
12:04<broseph>I ran the command and it was a longish operation. The resulting output is here: https://pastebin.com/zrWKU6Dx
12:05<broseph>The last line was: - Installing to /lib/modules/4.18.0-3-amd64/updates/dkms/
12:05<broseph>And then depmod ran successfully.
12:08<jelly>good
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12:08<broseph>So that should be all I need to do, right?
12:09<broseph>I didn't know about that last command.
12:09<jelly>then you just need to make sure Xorg server use the nvidia driver at next reboot (after nouveau not loaded)
12:09<broseph>Does that mean editing xorg.conf?
12:09<jelly>if you do not have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf at all, you can use the bit from above
12:09<jelly>mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
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12:11<broseph>Alright, so if SDDM doesn't run, then I'll need to delete that file and try something else, right?
12:13<jelly>if it were me I'd investigate _why_ it did not work
12:14<jelly>as opposed to reverting just a tiny bit of the procedure
12:14<broseph>Yes, I tried to do that. Perhaps I didn't investigate as fully as I could.
12:14<broseph>Yeah, when it happened before, I just deleted the xorg.conf file.
12:15<jelly>it's somewhat unusual you _had_ an xorg.conf file in the first place
12:15<broseph>No, I didn't, out of the box.
12:15<broseph>After trying to install the driver, I had an xorg.conf and it was way more detailed than the edit you suggested above.
12:15<broseph>So perhaps that is why.
12:15*jelly wonders if someone added unneeded steps to https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers again
12:16<broseph>It's a somewhat confusing page to begin with, so that's possible.
12:16<broseph>Perhaps it could be vetted more and then locked?
12:16<broseph>Above my paygrade.
12:17<broseph>Alright, I'm going to reboot and see what happens.
12:17<jelly>I have been unable to log in to wiki.d.o for years now... :-)
12:17<broseph>jelly: Thanks for your help.
12:17<broseph>haha
12:17<jelly>http error 500 when I try to get password reset, reported by someone else years ago
12:18*broseph nods
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12:19*annadane personally just followed the wiki instructions to install nvidia
12:20<annadane>i wonder if i should've just followed the dkms factoid verbatim
12:23*jelly recommends the latter
12:24<jelly>final solution: got a machine that has a 2014 intel gpu, 3 outputs without nvidia or nouveau
12:24<annadane>i'm just wondering how to do that from this stage having already followed instructions, maybe i should apt purge nvidia. and follow the rest of the factoid as-is
12:25<jelly>aptitude purge '~i ?source-package(nvidia-graphics-drivers)' ?
12:25*annadane followed https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_375.66
12:26<annadane>i know piper has a formula for getting rid of nvidia, it may just have been apt purge nvidia.
12:26<jelly>that... does not look exactly foolproof
12:27<amacater>apt-get remove nvidia-driver ; apt-get purge nvidia-driver might do it
12:27<annadane>well i can do what you recommended but first switch to nouveau and reboot so it doesn't mess up x while i'm on it
12:27<jelly>but the one from my history needs adapting for each avaialable legacy
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12:29<jelly>purging nvidia-driver will not get rid of all the bits. I have no idea how much it's going to leave behing on a multiarch system.
12:29<annadane>i could also just reinstall from scratch, it's pretty trivial for me to backup
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12:30-!-broseph is "Timothy Kalange, O.S.B." on #debian-next #debian
12:30<jelly>blasphemy
12:30<broseph>Alright, that was interesting
12:30<annadane>side note, it'd be cool if the wiki were more curated, but i understand it's a difficult problem
12:30<annadane>i do know some people want to switch away from moin
12:32<broseph>It said no driver loaded
12:32<broseph>Does the Xorg.log flush on reboot?
12:33<jelly>broseph: one previous run is preserved, ls -ld /var/log/Xorg.0.log*
12:33<jelly>or ls -ld ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.*.log*
12:34<jelly>broseph: was any nvidia kernel driver loaded?
12:34<broseph>Only 1 log
12:34<broseph>I don't think so
12:34<broseph>I looked at the log in the console when SDDM didn't run and it said no driver loaded
12:34<jelly>broseph: was nouveau loaded where is wasn't supposed to?
12:34<broseph>Didn't like the conf file
12:34<broseph>Alright, I'll do it again and copy the log file to a different name.
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12:35<jelly>look at and save "lsmod" and "dmesg" out...
12:35*jelly sighs
12:36<amacater>I've found, if all else fails, you can do a minimal command line expert install of Debian then add the prrerequisites for nvidia drivers then build them and only then add a desktop environment using tasksel
12:37<amacater>Bumblebee is the hardest to deal with of anything
12:37<annadane>ok bye! i'm going to wuss out and wipe this, catch you on the flip side
12:38<annadane>unless there's a trivial solution but yeah i do have multiarch enabled so i think this is easier
12:39<jelly>I tried to stay away from optimus systems with some success.
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12:40<amacater>I ended up with a couple of laptops which installed beautifully using nouveau and then were completely and utterly unusable
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12:40<annadane>because of bumblebee or just the general uselessness of nouveau?
12:41<amacater>In that instance, it was because of bumblebee so had to install nvidia drivers AND bumblebee :(
12:41<broseph>[ 8.979] Parse error on line 3 of section Device in file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
12:41<broseph> "Driv" is not a valid keyword in this section.
12:41<broseph>ok
12:41<annadane>nvidia can die in a fire. anyway, off to reinstall land
12:42<broseph>That seems obvious.
12:42<amacater>annadane: You've just made me think of Matthew Garrett before he was important :)
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12:43<jelly>is he more important now?
12:46*jelly scrolls back on his livejournal site and is reminded poulsbo used to be a thing
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12:49<jelly>broseph: and now, without copy/paste going wrong?
12:50<broseph>nvidia module does not exist
12:50<broseph>So I don't know how that's possible.
12:51<broseph>Maybe the name is different
12:51<broseph>instead of nvidia it's something else.
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12:52<broseph>diaf is right.
12:52<jelly>it's actually "nvidia-current" and "nvidia" just an alias
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12:52<broseph>So it shouldn't matter then
12:53<jelly>"modinfo nvidia-current" ought to show something on a system where dkms build was successful
12:53<jelly>version: 384.130
12:53<jelly>
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12:54<jelly>why do I even have all of this still installed
12:54<broseph>filename: /lib/modules/4.18.0-3-amd64/updates/dkms/nvidia-current.ko
12:55<broseph>version: 390.87
12:56<jelly>so it's there
12:56<jelly>does dmesg show either of nvidia or nouveau being loaded
12:57<broseph>no
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12:59<jelly>broseph: and none of them are in "dmesg" output?
12:59<jelly>sorry... lsmod
12:59<broseph>I ran lsmod | grep nouveau and grep nvidia and nothing
13:00<jelly>weird. What if you manually "modprobe nvidia-current"?
13:00<broseph>modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'nvidia_current': No such device
13:02<jelly>and what do the last couple lines of dmesg say about it?
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13:03<broseph>[ 761.934072] nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel. [ 761.959429] nvidia-nvlink: Nvlink Core is being initialized, major device number 240 [ 762.007359] nvidia 0000:01:00.0: Refused to change power state, currently in D3 [ 762.007420] nvidia: probe of 0000:01:00.0 failed with error -1 [ 762.039104] nvidia-nvlink: Unregistered the Nvlink Core, major device number 240
13:04<broseph>So, what, the module doesn't load?
13:05<jelly>It does load... but I have no idea what the rest means, it sounds like "found a nvidia device, tried to wake it up but it did not budge, so I'm failing now"
13:05<jelly>does "lspci" output show there's a nvidia card at 0000:01:00.0 ?
13:05<broseph>There are NVRM messages, too: https://pastebin.com/tdwnmXpT
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13:06<annadane>god, screw typing this syntax without copy paste, lol
13:06<broseph>01:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA Corporation GP107M [GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mobile] (rev ff)
13:06<annadane>must quadruple check everything
13:06<jelly>so yes.
13:06<jelly>broseph: those other messages seem useful.
13:07<jelly>it's not a driver build or driver install issue.
13:07<jelly>broseph: I'd try a different kernel (and kernel headers), or ask in #nvidia on freenode
13:08<annadane>is the period at the end of !nvidia dkms necessary for the command or just a way to end the sentence in the factoid?
13:08<jelly>or google those messages.
13:08<annadane>20-nvidia.conf>>.
13:08<broseph>jelly: Thanks for taking the time.
13:08<jelly>annadane: everything between « and » is one command line, nothing more
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13:09<annadane>well the . comes after the >> and there is no << anyway
13:09<jelly>?
13:09<jelly>!nvidia dkms
13:09<dpkg>For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf». Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist.
13:09<jelly>«aptitude -r
13:09<annadane>ah, right
13:10<annadane>still, the period comes after the >>
13:10<annadane>my guess is, 'don't include it'
13:10<broseph>I had to update the kernel to 4.18 to get the sound drivers to work.
13:10<jelly>yes. It's not part of the command line.
13:10<jelly>broseph: you're on testing?
13:10<annadane>still, i forgot the <<, so lemme fix that real quick...
13:11<jelly>broseph: might as well go with the testing/unstable mix and try 4.19. ask about !tum in #debian-next channel
13:11<broseph>Yeah, I'm on testing
13:11<broseph>Okay :\
13:11<annadane>am i right? these parenthesis are necessary? it's not just a stylistic way to tell the user what to type *within* the parentheses?
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13:11<annadane>the << and >> i mean
13:12<broseph>Well, I have buster in sources, not testing
13:12<annadane>(which is testing)
13:14<annadane>if i use >> i simply get a blank prompt so my guess is to exclude both
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13:16<annadane>right, i get what you're saying now. a little slow today
13:17<jelly>annadane: » is a single quote character, only visually similar to two > next to each other >>
13:18<annadane>jelly: Couldn't find any packages whose name or description matched "linux-headers-uname -r|sed s,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,"
13:20<moop149>Merry Christmas, jelly. Take it easy.
13:20<annadane>fairly sure i typed the thing correctly but maybe i should get a gui so i can copy paste
13:21<jelly>annadane: I'm pretty sure you're missing backticks.
13:21<jelly>and singlequotes, too
13:22<jelly>but here: uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,' ... just returns "amd64"
13:22<jelly>annadane: so you can substitude linux-headers-amd64 if that's the kernel build flavor you're using as well
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13:23<jelly>annadane: or learn how to copy/paste with tmux or screen or with mouse in console, using gpm
13:23<annadane>jelly: for the whole uname section including sed?
13:23<jelly>sed cuts from 4.17.0-0.bpo.1-amd64 to just amd64
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13:24<annadane>i think i'll just get a GUI first, less confusing
13:25*jelly gives annadane a couple `'`'`'`'`'`
13:27<annadane> /usr/share/doc/gpm/README-1.20.2 "unfortunately, this release is broken..."
13:29<annadane>i think in future, i'll rely on the wiki less...
13:29<annadane>or just use arch's
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13:31<annadane>that being said i will not edit NvidiaGraphicsDrivers either because it has multiple sections and i wouldn't know the differences
13:31<sicelo>or improvie it
13:31<annadane>yeah, see above :/
13:31<sicelo>*improve it (wiki)
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13:33<annadane>there's been mumblings as to how to improve the wiki but one of the things mentioned was also "move to a better framework"
13:33<annadane>as in, don't use moin
13:34<annadane>so...
13:34<annadane>and i know people using VPNs are banned from it, jelly not being able to log in at all is a surprise though
13:34<annadane>(well not using VPNs, *some* using VPNs can't access it)
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13:59<annadane>could be just placebo, but it seems faster?
14:02<annadane>well okay, cool. thanks jelly.
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14:09<amacater>If ever you're not sure what video you have - as root or root equivalent lspci | grep vga is useful
14:10<amacater>that will show you what's vga compatible
14:13<mnuhmnuh>lspci | grep -i vga
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14:27<moop149>And the verbose version with 'lspci -v' to see the kernel module in use.
14:30<moop149>lspci -v | grep -A 12 -i vga
14:33<mnuhmnuh>very nice. :-)
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14:42<rakor>Hey there. Installing testing on a lenovo T61 I end in a black screen when booting the installed system. I found no error in the logs. It seems to hang when it comes to switching to the gui. I removed the "quiet" from grub and it seems it boots the kernel. I could boot testing few weeks ago. Something must have changed. After an upgrade I did a week or two ago the issue was seen the first time.
14:42<rakor>(It was a test-installation so I tried to reinstall).
14:42<rakor>Can you give me a hint where I could continue my investigation?
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14:48<moop149>rakor: This is the wrong channel for testing. Try #debian-next. You also ought to provide logs, at least the out put of dmesg.
14:49<rakor>ok moop149 thanks. I thought debin-next would be only for unstable not for testing :) I'll switch
14:50<moop149>Oh, maybe you are right and I am wrong.
14:50<moop149>rakor: Do you have the output of dmesg?
14:51<rakor>No, I'll have to start the rescue-system again
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15:01<jelly>!debian-next
15:01<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
15:01<jelly>I'm not sure who removed the testing part from the topic
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15:02<moop149>Alrighty.
15:05*jelly blames themill, with the irssi, in May 2017
15:07<jelly>it makes sense to avoid pushing people using testing to the other channel, when the release is near or just done.
15:07<jelly>!release history
15:07<dpkg>Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17). Next: Buster. http://deb.li/it56U
15:08<jelly>and 2017-05-27 is around stretch release time
15:08-!-mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ
15:08-!-jelly changed the topic of #debian to: Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.6 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
15:08-!-mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ
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15:16<rakor>OK Kernel gives an Ooops
15:20<rakor>As I thought it seems to be a problem with the gpu....
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16:20<debdebdeb>Hello everyone, I had a problem after installing debian (I suspect after grub) I cannot enter the BIOS settings with my administrator password (I enter the password correctly 100%) what could be the problem?
16:20<sicelo>that can't be caused by debian
16:21<sicelo>caps lock on keyboard maybe? or stuck key?
16:21<debdebdeb>nope
16:25<debdebdeb>The password that I enter is exactly correct, I tried including entering the password from the on-screen keyboard (touchscreen display).
16:27<debdebdeb>Before installation, I could enter the BIOS to switch legacy mode on, no problem.
16:27<blast007>your BIOS/UEFI setup utility has an on-screen keyboard?
16:27<debdebdeb>hp 820 g4
16:29<debdebdeb>yes you can input from the on-screen keyboard
16:29<jelly>sicelo: are you sure it can't be caused by debian? people have bricked their uefi systems with linux in the past
16:30<jelly>messing up some badly implemented setup utility configured as an uefi application does not sound that far fetched
16:34<debdebdeb>This is not fiction. All I did was install debian, then I tried to enter the BIOS using a password that I enter ~ 30 times every day.
16:35<jelly>you got latest bios/uefi firmware for that model?
16:36<debdebdeb>sure
16:36<jelly>does debian boot at least?
16:36<debdebdeb>yep
16:36<jelly>or some/any other OS installed?
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16:37<debdebdeb>deian and (beep) boot correctly
16:37<jelly>good, then you should be able to access /boot/efi partition and get help from someone who actually understands UEFI
16:37<jelly>it is allowed to say windows 10 in here.
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16:37<debdebdeb>kk)
16:38*mnuhmnuh just follow it with "Pthoo!"
16:39<jelly>debdebdeb: when you boot linux, how much free space is there on /boot/efi filesystem?
16:45<debdebdeb>I can not answer this question at the moment.I can boot in Linux and say all the necessary information
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16:47<jelly>that's fine, there are irc clients and web browsers in linux, too
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16:50<debdebdeb> logged in from a stationary computer
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16:56<debdebdeb> Please tell me which system command output for you would be as informative as possible?
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17:05<debdebdeb>\/dev/sda2 98304 26227 72077 27% /boot/efi
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17:08<mnuhmnuh>27% used looks like lots of room.
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17:09<debdebdeb>sry
17:10<debdebdeb>first time using webchat
17:10<debdebdeb>so we have 27 % used
17:12<mnuhmnuh>debdebdeb: you should apt-get install pastebinit. then you can "df -h | pastebinit" and "pastebinit FILENAME"; smart little app.
17:17<debdebdeb>thx
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17:17<debdebdeb>http://paste.debian.net/1057284
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17:18<mnuhmnuh>/ /dev/sda2 96M 26M 71M 27% /boot/efi
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17:20<mnuhmnuh>debdebdeb: btw, i'm no help w uefi either; never ran into it yet, happily.
17:21<debdebdeb>happy man)
17:21<mnuhmnuh>there are uefi related pages on the wiki which may be enlightening.
17:23<debdebdeb>I do not know at what time and to whom it is better to contact with this question, it is already 5 am in my Mordor
17:23<mnuhmnuh>were you a cub scout? "I will dib, dib, dib!" &c. b. powell, funny guy.
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17:25<debdebdeb> You do not know who can try to help in this chat?
17:25<mnuhmnuh>14:00 here. almost ime to open xmas presents there.
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17:25<annadane>there actually is a #debian-efi
17:26<annadane>but the best policy is to wait for someone to answer
17:26<annadane>or try a debian mailing list: lists.debian.org. probably the general purpose list, debian-user@lists.debian.org
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17:27<mnuhmnuh>debdebdeb: yeah, you didn't even need to subscribe to post to it, last time i looked.
17:27<annadane>it's high volume so you may or may not get a quick answer
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17:29<debdebdeb>мне стоит продублировать мое сообщение на канале #debian-efi?
17:29<mnuhmnuh>!ru
17:29<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
17:29<debdebdeb> Should I duplicate my post on the # debian-efi channel?
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17:29<annadane>perhaps, i'd try it
17:30<debdebdeb>mnuh i know sry , my brain is already failing
17:30<annadane>oh, hey. the channel topic shows they have their own mailing list, which i was unaware of, you may try there... debian-efi@lists.debian.org
17:30<mnuhmnuh>:-)
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18:18<svetlana>hi i had flat battery and now laptop boots into black screen ttys are not there
18:18<svetlana>hi
18:18<annadane>hi svetlana. we see you.
18:19<annadane>just wait a bit
18:23<mnuhmnuh>you may need to get it to some significant percent of charge for it to consider trying to reboot fully.
18:25<mnuhmnuh>i've just been trying to make "pastebinit -t $blah" work, and i can't; it has no effect i can see. is there a trick?
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18:26<annadane>err
18:26<annadane>maybe it only shows up in the paste and doesn't show you the title by default
18:27<annadane>maybe /usr/share/doc/pastebinit has something
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18:28<mnuhmnuh>wierd.
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18:30<annadane>i just use termbin when i don't have a gui
18:30<annadane>never used pastebinit
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18:36<mnuhmnuh>it works really nicely at a command line.
18:36<mnuhmnuh>do one thing, do it ... passably? what's wrong w -t?!? kroshnit.
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18:45<mnuhmnuh>good, weechat not broken. bad, still won't /msg nickserv identify ... automagically, damn. research.
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20:17<moop149>Do Debian have colours? I can't find the colour codes. Halp!
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20:21<sdk>Q: is it possible to have the total number of packages in a repository via the cli?
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20:25<ach>sdk no
20:25<bremner>sdk: you could count the total number of packages available to apt with the current configuration
20:26<ach>!rumors
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20:49<sdk>ah thanks. btw I've found a way https://packages.debian.org/stable/allpackages?format=txt.gz
20:49<sdk>Saved it in a file and used `wc -l filename` :)
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21:02<moop149>sdk: So, what's the result, mate?
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21:13<sdk>moop149: 68810 in main :)
21:13<moop149>That's plenty.
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21:17<annadane>binaries, i assume, not source
21:19<mnuhmnuh>packages, not files.
21:20<mnuhmnuh>seems a big number, all for that cpu?
21:21<annadane>well, binaries are built from source packages
21:21<annadane>there will be fewer source packages than binary packages
21:21<mnuhmnuh>i've seen 30k+ --> 50k pkgs; not > 60k.
21:22*annadane wonders how many buster will get
21:23<mnuhmnuh>perhaps counting both source and bins, 30k*2 == 60k
21:24<mnuhmnuh>"there will be fewer source packages than binary packages", why?
21:25<annadane>well, maybe not? i just assumed, due to multiple binaries being built from source pkgs
21:26<annadane>i'm sure i could find official metrics
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21:28<mnuhmnuh>in win*, everything drags in its own copy of common libraries. not so in linux. apps can trust system to provide suitable libs.
21:28<mnuhmnuh>usually.
21:30<annadane>oh, that's true...
21:33<mnuhmnuh>we do get yadaX vs. yadaY crap (python, qt, ...) all the time too. :-P
21:33<mnuhmnuh>complexity.
21:34<sdk>annadane: yep binaries
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21:35<mnuhmnuh>huh.
21:35*mnuhmnuh debian's asploding!
21:39<sdk>and here's for the sources https://sources.debian.org/stats/
21:40<annadane>25,311 source packages
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21:42<annadane>i do wonder how many packages are garbage
21:42<annadane>it's a non zero number
21:43<annadane>i know abs-guide is full of errors
21:43<sdk>annadane: it's also depends your definition of garbage ;)
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21:46<mnuhmnuh>getting rid of stuff you don't want, really getting rid of it, can be tough once you've decades of backups redundantly backing up backups.
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21:54<sdk>Hmm well something wrong with `apt list` or packages.debian.org. Because with `apt list` I have 53285 packages.
21:56<bremner>apt list lists binary packages
21:57<bremner>(probably)
21:58<sdk>bremner: same as https://packages.debian.org/stable/allpackages?format=txt.gz
21:58<bremner>no idea
21:58<sdk>first line is `All Debian Packages in "stretch"`
21:59<sdk>nvm it include contrib and non-free
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22:18<mnuhmnuh>so do i.
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22:30<sdk>mnuhmnuh: wifi package I guess :)
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22:31<mnuhmnuh>i don't use wifi, just eth.
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22:36<sdk>Just curious what packages do you use from non-free then?
22:36<annadane>for me just microcode and nvidia
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23:05<mnuhmnuh>hmm, how to determine that? i don't have microcode nor nvidia, nor firmware blobs.
23:08<annadane>use the vrms package
23:08<annadane>i'd say at least you should have microcode, though
23:09<annadane>as an active recommendation
23:10<mnuhmnuh>pass. no telling what's in microcode. features, fixes, back doors, ...
23:10<annadane>fair enough i guess
23:12<mnuhmnuh>looking at vrms, tx. gimme a min.
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23:15<mnuhmnuh>afio, emacs25-common-non-dfsg, and libdvd-pkg.
23:17<mnuhmnuh>kinda funny that emacs pkg was one of the offenders.
23:18<mnuhmnuh>an emacs pkg.
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 25 00:00:51 2018