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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-12-29

---Logopened Sat Dec 29 00:00:57 2018
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00:52-!-codingquark is "Dhavan" on #debian
00:54<codingquark>Hello! I have a machine that cannot connect to any network at all (LAN/WAN none). How do I get my debian updated there? And I want to install a few packages on it too, what is the recommended way?
01:01<rwp>Are you asking how to connect it to the network? Or how to update without a network? If without then look at https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=apt-offline
01:02<codingquark>rwp: update without a network. Looking at the link, thanks!
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01:08-!-broseph is "Timothy Kalange, O.S.B." on #debian-next #debian
01:09<broseph>hi
01:09<broseph>How's it going?
01:14<codingquark>Going nice ;)
01:16<broseph>Good!
01:16<broseph>Linux ftw.
01:26<codingquark>apt-offline solves the needs! Thanks a lot!
01:27<broseph>You're welcome. I think.
02:01<codingquark>Is there a way to get all installed packages from one machine, and install them in another?
02:01<codingquark>Won't get a good idea, considering all the drivers etc installed
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02:02<codingquark>What I want to do is to install some packages that I have installed on one system to be installed on another system which is offline. Having to manually download all deps is kind of a pain.
02:12<codingquark>Looks like people have written bash scripts for this.
02:32<rwp>codingquark, The problem is that doing so messes with the automated install/remove system used by apt.
02:32<ach>apt download
02:32<codingquark>rwp: I am trying out apt download
02:33<codingquark>ach: right.
02:33<codingquark>Run a grep on dependencies list, feed it to apt download
02:33<rwp>Imagine installing "foo". It depends upon foo-server, foo-client, foo-libs, and so forth.
02:34<rwp>All get installed on machine A. Getting the list of packages installed and installing them on B means that apt on B will mark *all* of them as having been manually installed.
02:34<rwp>I guess that doesn't actively break anything but trying to make that all clean and happy is not trivial.
02:34<rwp>I can get you clues as to how to do this if you want to proceed anyway.
02:35<ach>cp /var/..../?packages/ otherdebian/?packages normal apt
02:35<codingquark>rwp: I understand your point.
02:35<ach>/var/cache/apt/archives
02:36<rwp>The /var/cache/apt/archives on a mature machine will have been cleaned along the way and won't be fully populated.
02:36<codingquark>rwp: IIUC, using dpkg will mark as the packages being manually installed and cause issues when I remove them?
02:36<codingquark>Not issues.
02:36<rwp>apt, not dpkg, will mark them all as manually installed. Then they will not be automatically suggested for remove when things change later.
02:36<codingquark>I see.
02:37<ach>apt checks that folder for *.dep packages
02:37<rwp>apt calls dpkg for the down and deep install. apt is the high level management software. dpkg is the low level deb unpacker and postinst runner.
02:37<rwp>/var/cache/apt/archives is a local cache of downloaded packages. But only if they need to be downloaded for installation. If they were already previously installed then they won't be in there.
02:38<rwp>Plus if packages have rolled forward for security upgrades or point releases or such then that isn't an exact correspondence.
02:38<rwp>Both machines are the same architecture and Stable Stretch release?
02:38<rwp>Otherwise it is much harder.
02:38<rwp>The technique is to get a full list of packages by name on the source machine you want to duplicate.
02:39<codingquark>amd64 and stretch, yeah
02:39<codingquark>Let us see if I now understand properly. Suppose I install stumpwm via `dpkg -i` with all the dependencies. Now when I `apt uninstall`, the system will remain unclean because apt doesn't know what all to remove. Correct?
02:39<rwp>Something like: grep-status -sPackage -n -FStatus "install ok installed" > packagenamelist
02:39<rwp>Correct.
02:39<ach>apt clean and apt update/upgrade does same if even version
02:40<rwp>Having the list of packages you wish to install on the other system then download that list on the connected machine to a directory.
02:40<ach>they must be just that some case identically
02:40<rwp>Something like: apt-get download $(grep-status -sPackage -n -FStatus "install ok installed")
02:40<codingquark>I can make a list of packages I want installed...
02:41<rwp>That will probably take a while but will get you a local directory filled with a long collection of packages matching what you have installed on the system.
02:41<rwp>Or if you want to edit the list: apt-get download $(cat packagenamelist)
02:41<codingquark>Hmm.
02:41<codingquark>Unclean is a sad thing in these cases.
02:42<codingquark>I would like to avoid it if possible
02:42<rwp>Then get a list of packages that were marked as manual: apt-mark showmanual > manuallist
02:42<rwp>The opposite of showmanual is showauto. Package state is either one or the other.
02:42<codingquark>After having such a list, what do I do?
02:43<rwp>Copy all to the unconnected system. On it install everything. Then use apt-mark on the cloned machine to mark all as "auto" and then again to mark the manual ones as manual: apt-mark manual $(cat manuallist)
02:43<rwp>At that point things should be pretty close to perfect. However there are bound to be differences from before you started the clone action.
02:44<ach>you also can simply copy every package if the hardrive is big enough no version disease?
02:44<rwp>Therefore at that point run "apt-get autoremove" and examine what it suggests to remove. React accordingly by either marking them manual or letting them be removed.
02:44<codingquark>If I apt download the manual packages, will it also fetch dependencies?
02:45<ach>manual means just that it gone not autoremoved
02:45<rwp>ach, sure, a full mirror is around 120 gig or so. Let me check the size of my local mirror.
02:45<rwp>codingquark, No. It will only do the single package you ask it for.
02:46<codingquark>rwp: right. And when I try to install those packages on unconnected system, won't it error out due to unmatched dependency?
02:46<codingquark>I do have 120GB lying around
02:47<ach>-f is about anyhow kill use in case of fail from manual
02:50<codingquark>Let's see how this goes then
02:50<codingquark>I'm downloading showmanual list.
02:50<ach>download *0
02:50<ach>apt
02:50<rwp>But if you download everything then of course the dependent packages would come along with that everything that was installed list.
02:50<ach>inverted
02:50<rwp>Sorry. My network dropped offline for a bit.
02:50<ach>0*
02:51<codingquark>Offline packages are not simple, eh?
02:52<ach>apt download 0*z
02:53<codingquark>ach: is that for the full mirror?
02:53<ach>yes
02:53<codingquark>I have space, but it will take days before the download is done
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02:54<ach>you can simply buy it as dvd collection
02:54<codingquark>:D High bandwidth low latency
02:55<rwp>Also you can get the list of installed packages on your target machine, grep those out of the list from your source machine. Then only download what is different.
02:55<codingquark>Hmm
02:55<rwp>My network is not happy. Rebooting my ISP's modem. I am going to be offline for a bit.
02:58<codingquark>I am giving in to downloading everything.
02:58<codingquark>Pretty sure it will come in handy all the time
02:58<codingquark>Is there a recommended way to do this? I mean, it will be nice if I could update the versions later.
02:58<codingquark>And such things
02:59<ach>is free to stop
02:59<ach>as the steps been told it's working
03:00<codingquark>ach: I am sorry, I did not understand what you mean. Can you kindly explain?
03:01<ach>if just it downloads their is no fail by as it stops and just in case for same version os fully upgradable after that way
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03:02<codingquark>ach: ah. I meant if I could keep my local archive of downloaded packages updated.
03:05<ach>if you don't touch the os from you download the archives automatically their then the from sources.list updates get to var/.../archives
03:06<ach>so you have just to copy the folder to keep os updated
03:06<codingquark>Understood
03:11<codingquark>Thanks for the help ach and rwp :)
03:12<ach>(;
03:12<ach>here to help (;
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07:17<captnfab>hi, rust question here: is there a debian-friendly equivalent to "rustup target add asmjs-unknown-emscripten"?
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08:34<elle>I'm trying to install debian on a Vista-era HP Pavilion. Ubuntu, Manjaro, and OpenSUSE all install without problem. But the goal is to install Debian.
08:36<elle>The debian installer loads from the usb key. But when I select to actually install debian, instead I'm presented with the option to start one of the already installed versions of Linux.
08:38<elle>I used the usb key to install Ubuntu. Debian won't install even when using a CD instead of the usb key.
08:39<elle>I tried adding acpi=off but that didn't work. I also tried using the version of debian with the non-free firmware, and also the multi-arch version.
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08:39<elle>Each version of debian failed to install exactly in the same way, switching to booting from the hard drive at the same place in the install process.
08:39<abrotman>have you tried expert mode?
08:39<elle>yes.
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08:42<abrotman>are you trying to get rid of the others? or have them all side by side
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08:45-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
08:45<elle>At this point I don't care. I can add opensuse and manjaro later, and I don't want Ubuntu on the machine at all.
08:45<elle>I'm setting this machine up for a visually impaired person.
08:46<abrotman>can you take a picture of the options you're presented with?
08:48<elle>Upon booting from the usb key the usual options are presented: graphical install, install, advanced options, 32-bit install options, help, and install with speech synthesis.
08:48<abrotman>so choose "install" .. and then what happens?
08:49<elle>See this bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=874251
08:49<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/874251 in installation-reports (open): «installation-reports: Debian 9.1 installer fails on HP ProLiant DL360 G4 with HP Smart Array 6i»; severity: important; opened: 2017-09-04; last modified: 2018-01-28.
08:50<elle>When I choose to install, the process gets to here: Loading /install.amd/vmlinuz... ok
08:50<elle>And then this comes up: Loading /install.amd/initrd.gz...
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08:51<abrotman>and then ....
08:51*abrotman hopes someone gets the joke ..
08:51<elle>The second "OK" never appears. Instead the machine switches to booting from the hard drive.
08:52<abrotman>Can you try a buster installer?
08:52<abrotman>or an older installer, then dist-upgrade
08:53<elle>Sure. The last time I installed debian on an HP machine I ended up starting with something about 6 versions back, did a minimal net install, and upgraded through to present Debian.
08:53<elle>I was hoping to not have to do that again as it took all day long. I have a slow internet connection.
08:57<abrotman>I'd start with buster if possible
08:59<blast007>there is also a tiny unstable/sid installer ISO that lets you install stable, testing, or unstable (at least in expert mode)
08:59<abrotman>well, if the buster installer fails, elle could create an installation report, and hopefuly get it fixed for others
09:00<elle>buster net install is downloading - this takes time, slow connection!
09:05*abrotman thought Charter was going to fix NY TWC nonsense ...
09:06<elle>Since Charter, download speeds are slower than ever
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09:15<elle>Buster alpha4 installer is at the opening menu - is there a particular install option that's better to use?
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09:18<elle>hmm, I just chose expert install and it actually is trying to install! Now at the Choose language step . . .
09:19<elle>Keyboard is configured. I don't understand the next step "Detect and mount CD-ROM" - does this also apply to using the usb key?
09:23<elle>Never mind, "CD-ROM" seems to be code for "whatever the actual install medium might be".
09:24<elle>It turns out that I need non-free hardware for "rtl_nic/rt18168d-2.fw". If this is for wireless or bluetooth, I don't need it. Does anyone know?
09:26<elle>never mind, skipping the non-free doesn't impair accessing the network.
09:27<ach>i am not sure for bew versions but you could access the stick through the console and their you could run dpkg
09:28<ach>*new
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09:52<traumschule>A debian installer offered me to repartition my external drive instead of the internal one and i didn't notice. Searching for LUKS with hexedit brought up the partitions created by the installer so i gave up for some time until i found a json backup for the VG in /etc/lvm/backup. Now 'pvcreate --uuid' expects the id of the unlocked device, in this case it‘s in /dev/mapper because the VG resides in a
09:52<traumschule>luks container. To find the starting sector i used the drive size in sectors from fdisk and subtracted the physical volume size in the backup file. At the resulting sector no header can be found. Did the partitioner overwrite it maybe?
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09:54<abrotman>!rt1816d
09:54<abrotman>!rt1816
09:54<abrotman>I can't read
09:54<abrotman>!rtl8168d
09:54<dpkg>The Realtek RTL8111D/RTL8168D Ethernet controller is supported by <r8169> since Linux 2.6.31. Firmware patches (rtl8168d-1.fw, rtl8168d-2.fw) for use with linux-2.6 2.6.32-20 and later are packaged since firmware-nonfree 0.28, ask me about <realtek firmware>. These provide a bug fix for the controller (gigabit operation with a wider variety of cables and link partners); in many cases, the controller and driver will work without these.
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10:06-!-PaulePanter is "Paul Menzel" on #debian
10:06<PaulePanter>Hi. I manually set up a LUKS encrypted root partition.
10:07<PaulePanter>But although everything seems to work, `/dev/mapper/…` is not created.
10:07<PaulePanter>dmeventd is installed. Is lvm2 also required for that?
10:07<PaulePanter>cryptsetup does not depend on it or recommend it.
10:07<PaulePanter>/usr/sbin/mkinitramfs fails if `/dev/mapper/…` is not there.
10:08<elle>abrotman: Buster is installed (minimal install) - thanks!
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10:14<abrotman>elle: please remember that buster isn't released yet
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10:18<elle>abrotman: yes, thanks! that's why I hadn't already tried Buster :) , wanting stability more than cutting edge for this particular installation. But as Buster installed, hopefully all will be well.
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10:23<traumschule>PaulePanter: maybe it's worth a bug report to make the maintainer aware of it
10:32<abrotman>elle: just ensure you take note of the release, and followup with your friend to ensure their sources are pointing at buster, and have security sources, etc
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12:28<DebianNoob>Added a folder share on Ubuntu - but cannot access it on Debian - why is this so complicated?
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15:58<koleygr>Hi...
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16:01<koleygr>There is a command that checks for closed source programs installed... Does anybody knows which command is this and if there is an option to see all the licences of used programs?
16:02<rwp>The "vrms" package is somewhat fun in that area. :-)
16:03<rwp>Another useful tool in the toolbox for this analysis is "apt-show-versions".
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16:16<jelly>!vrms
16:16<dpkg>The Virtual Richard M. Stallman (vrms) will list the <contrib> and <non-free> packages installed on your system and for some explain why they are non-free; its list of "reasons" is horribly unmaintained however. You could just run "aptitude search '~i?or(~scontrib,~snon-free)'" to get the same package list.
16:16<annadane>the licenses are contained in the copyright files located in /usr/share/doc/<package name>
16:17<jelly>but why is it not a "licenses" file
16:17<koleygr>thanks @annadane
16:19<koleygr>apt-show-versions worked better (easier) but your suggestion is a good alternative if you know to use grep
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16:24<rwp>jelly, Because the filename is literally "copyright"?
16:24<rwp>It is an old legacy name from the beginning of Debian packaging days. If they did it again now I think it would be called "licenses".
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16:29<koleygr>they could leave it as copyright only if there is really copyrighted software in order to look in there (in my case it would be perfect)
16:30<rwp>You would wish non-copyrighted public domain software to not have a copyright file? (me says humorously)
16:31<rwp>SQLite is the best example of a non-licensed free(dom) software project that I can think of that is in the public domain.
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16:34<koleygr>sorry... but I don't even know what SQLite is
16:38<rwp>https://sqlite.org/index.html is used by *A LOT* of software that I am sure you use. Such as every web browser for example. It's a full relational database.
16:38<bremner>fsvo full
16:39<koleygr>thanks rwp
16:39<koleygr>I will search about it
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16:52<blast007>koleygr: you may be confusing 'copyrighted' with 'proprietary' or 'non-free'. most Free software is copyrighted, but the license they are released under provides the public with additional rights for using/modifying/distributing the works.
16:55<koleygr>I just stuck to the difference between copyright and copyleft that thought can't be called copyright... But thanks
16:55<koleygr>blast007 ^
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17:09<jhutchins>Best to get definitions of what things like copyright and licenses mean from someone with actual legal training in them.
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19:26<sdk>Q: is there an apt equivalent of "--without-recommands" ?
19:30<rkw_inspiron>If I understand you correctly, apt install --no-install-recommends
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20:14<sdk>ah! rkw_inspiron thanks
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21:01-!-Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-es #debian-next #debian-offtopic #packaging
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21:52-!-Ganneff is "Joerg Jaspert" on #oftc-status #help #debian-lists #spi #oftc #oftc-staff @#german #debian
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21:55-!-valentinousn is "realname" on #debian
21:56<valentinousn>need help getting the firmware for this wireless adapter installed on my SalentOS system: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 2200BG [Calexico2] Network Connection (rev 05)
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22:59-!-yumkam is "Yuriy M. Kaminskiy" on #debian #debian-multimedia
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23:28-!-Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> graviton.oftc.net quits: broseph
23:38<mnuhmnuh>i see "AppArmor disabled by boot time parameter" which i did and i'm happy with, but i can't find where that's being done. where? not anywhere in /etc/default/grub.
23:39<mnuhmnuh>can't see it in grub when booting inspecting w 'e'
23:52<mnuhmnuh>ah. q. becomes moot if it's not installed. q. answered.
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23:56-!-inkbottle is "inkbottle" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian-next #debian #kernelnewbies
---Logclosed Sun Dec 30 00:00:09 2018