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#linode IRC Logs for 2003-12-19

---Logopened Fri Dec 19 00:00:38 2003
00:03EFudd>"reboot" should not hang. Damnit.
00:19artifex>anyone know a good "general overview" on writing ld scripts?
00:20inkblot>the gnu info page for ld is quite extensive
00:21inkblot>it may have such an overview, but i don't know if it does
00:22*artifex reading that now
00:27artifex>hrmm, i suppose i am doing it the best way possible, then, per what the info page documents
00:28inkblot>i tried learning that stuff a few months ago
00:28inkblot>but by then i'd been banging on toolchain issues for a couple of weeks straight
00:29inkblot>and i was pretty damn exhausted of it
00:29artifex>i'm trying to link in a raw binary (image) as a resource... how im doing it now is using one linker script to convert the image to an elf .o, and then another script to link it in...
00:29artifex>SECTIONS {
00:29artifex> .splash (0x0) : AT (0x0) {
00:29artifex> *(.data);
00:29artifex> }
00:29artifex>to convert it to elf
00:30artifex>SECTIONS {
00:30artifex> .data : { *(.data) }
00:30artifex> .bss : { *(.bss) }
00:31*artifex has no copy/paste skills
00:31artifex>SECTIONS {
00:31artifex> . = 0x00100000;
00:31artifex> .text : { *(.text) }
00:31artifex> .data : { *(.data) }
00:31artifex> .bss : { *(.bss) }
00:31artifex> _start_splash = .;
00:31artifex> *(.splash);
00:31artifex> _end_splash = .;
00:31artifex>hehe, there we go
00:32inkblot>in my vague recollection of the little it picked up about linker scripts, that all seems ok
00:32artifex>it really seems like i *SHOULD* be able to do it in one step, somehow, but... :-\
00:33inkblot>well first you have to turn the image into an object file
00:33inkblot>and then you can link it, right?
00:33inkblot>it makes sense to me to keep that as two steps
00:33artifex>yes, but, it seems like there should be some way to keep it as a binary
00:34inkblot>you mean link the image directly in?
00:34inkblot>i don't know
00:35artifex>like, something like....
00:35inkblot>i guess i just don't understand why two steps is a problem
00:35inkblot>you're using a makefile, right?
00:36artifex> _start_splash = .;
00:36artifex> RAW(splash.jpg);
00:36artifex> _end_splash = .;
00:36inkblot>or i guess you could do that,
00:36inkblot>assuming that's valid syntax and all
00:36inkblot>(i really couldn't tell you)
00:36artifex>just because it's an extra step, and an extra file... for what seems like something that should be possible in one
00:37artifex>well, yes, but "RAW" isnt really a command
00:37artifex>i just made it up to illustrate
00:37artifex>and, for 1 resource it's fine...
00:37*inkblot shrugs
00:37inkblot>good luck
00:37artifex>but... for 100... that's 100 excess ldscripts, intermediate objects, and extra steps
00:38inkblot>why would you need an ldscript for each one?
00:38inkblot>couldn't you just use -T
00:38artifex>because they each need a unique section name?
00:38inkblot>oh, i see
00:39inkblot>but if it were one step
00:39inkblot>it would be like
00:39inkblot>all in one
00:39artifex>yes, but it's that way now, really, in the toplevel linker script...
00:40artifex> _start_splash = .;
00:40artifex> *(.splash);
00:40artifex> _end_splash = .;
00:40artifex> _start_bootsound = .;
00:40artifex> *(.bootsound);
00:40artifex> _end_bootsound = .;
00:41artifex> _start_pointer = .;
00:41inkblot>not much in the way of builtins
00:41artifex>and so on
00:41artifex>nope... theres INPUT(), but... its no help. ;-)
00:42artifex>all well, guess i'll just keep doing it the way i'm doing it. :-)
00:47artifex>hi mikegrb
00:48artifex>tj tell you about my recent cromwell work?
00:48@mikegrb>last I heard was just him working with the tiny patchset
00:49artifex>i'll msg
00:49@mikegrb>heidi made her first php application tonight :)
01:02@caker>mikegrb: insert into
01:03%Netsplit <-> quits: Efudd-he
01:03@caker>er, INSERT ... SELECT
01:04%Netsplit over, joins: Efudd-he
01:11@mikegrb>well I already did it, thanks though :)
01:11@mikegrb>what google adwords keywords do you have for linode caker
01:11@mikegrb>would be interesting to get linode ads on my site :)
01:11@mikegrb>I really need to post a testimonial in that forum
01:11@mikegrb>and I can put it on my website too
01:13@caker>too many keywords to list
01:14@caker>You could use someplace on your site and link to me :)
01:15vitrum>sighup g7 vitrum
01:15sighup>#G7 stats for vitrum, the Master of the Universe -- 61/110 Current Level: 33 | Time to next level: 0 days, 10:38:16 | Status: online | Item Total: 263 | Total Time Idled: 6 days, 01:19:05
01:18@mikegrb>well actually
01:18@mikegrb>they have this stuff for defining ads for use when they don't have matching ads
01:18@mikegrb>when I get time tommorow I'm going to checkout the format for that stuff and make a linode ad
01:18@caker>cool thanks :)
01:18@mikegrb>only spot I've seen so far that doesn't have ads it the main page
01:19@mikegrb>they insert public service ads in those places
01:19@mikegrb>they actually do a damn good job of selecting ads for the page
01:19@mikegrb>my rdiff backup how to has ads for offsite backup companies
01:19@mikegrb>the irc logs and cgi::irc client have ads for irc shells and bouncers
01:20@mikegrb>g7 pages have everquest, etc ads
01:47EFudd>This is useful.
01:47EFudd>I'm trying to PXEboot a kernel
01:47EFudd>kernel loads and produces *this* error:
01:47EFudd>Direct booting from floppy is no longer supported.
01:47EFudd>Please use a boot loader program instead.
02:12EFudd>ok. So linux 2.6.0 doesn't apparently support NFSroot or sompn. a 2.4 kernel is working..
02:13EFudd>or rather, it's ability to be called directly from pxelinux is questionable.
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06:25wap>sighup g7 wap
06:25sighup>#G7 stats for Lunatic, the mad shrink -- 8/110 Current Level: 44 | Time to next level: 2 days, 04:05:50 | Status: online | Item Total: 345 | Total Time Idled: 28 days, 02:00:15
06:27wap>mikegrb: ping?
06:59@mikegrb>wap: wassup
06:59wap>mikegrb: how comes you challenged someone without levelling up?
06:59wap>is it a bug?
07:00@mikegrb>at a particular level it begins to have a chance of a battle between levels
07:00@mikegrb>otherwise it takes lots and lots of time to level up :)
07:01@mikegrb>though if you are talking about about an hour ago, I leveled up then
07:02wap>mikegrb: you leveled up, challenged a guy, and maybe 10mins later you challenged another one
07:02wap>maybe the "particular level" is 45 ;)
07:03wap>it's not mentioned in the rules. I was just wondering ;)
07:03@mikegrb>it was something that was added somewhat recently to the original one
07:03@mikegrb>about a month or so before this one started
07:04wap>cool :)
07:05wap>I'm gonna have a bath now ;)
07:05@mikegrb>have fun
07:05@mikegrb>I got to finish getting ready for work :/
07:06wap>heh, have fun too :p
07:40@adamg>a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z
07:41*wap gives adamg a cookie
07:41*adamg is trying to do some coding but in not in the moood
07:41@adamg>oh well I will play helic instead
07:42@adamg>i am kinda addicted to it
07:42wap>adamg: if you didn't already do it, you could upgrade your linode kernel
07:43@adamg>done that
07:43wap>adamg: go with helic then ;)
07:43@adamg>did it when it came out, using my nifty reboot aliase
07:44wap>I'll use it for my next reboot
07:44@adamg>it will be even better when rsa works with list, but for now I will have to be content with entering the password
07:44@adamg>still easier than having to login to the CP
07:45wap>lazyness brings creativity
07:45@adamg>creativity is not a problem, it is implmenting it which is the problem
07:46wap>so true ;)
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09:52*NeXTer looks outside
09:52wap>Howdi caker
09:53@adamg>its early for you caker
09:53@caker>A little early :)
09:56@adamg>about 10:53am over there?
09:56@caker>just about 9:00
09:57@caker>just made some coffee .. ready to rock
09:57@adamg>whats the time difference?
09:57@caker>-6 utc?
09:57@adamg>thought it was -5
09:58@caker>for eastern -- I'm central
09:58@caker>all the servers are set to eastern, tho
09:58@adamg>thus the confusion
09:58@adamg>I set mine to utc so the logs arnt effect by daylight savings etc
09:59@caker>is it about 3:00 pm there?
09:59@adamg>and I still havnt done anywork
10:00@caker>kinda nice you're +0 utc/gmt
10:00*caker goes for a refill
10:00@adamg>well we are not, but we switch to bst for 6 mnths of the year
10:01@caker>what's the b stand for?
10:03@adamg>which is why all my servers are set to utc, the hour time change can be confusing in the logs
10:03@adamg>so have you decided if you are getting a new rack then, or just a new power feed
10:04@caker>yeah, sending the paperwork in today for a new cab
10:04@caker>And probably send the stuff off Monday morning before I head to the airport
10:04@caker>either that, or get it out today, which isn't likely
10:04@caker>part of the reason I'm up early...
10:05@adamg>loads of work to do
10:05@adamg>so are you still going to be about after monday, or are you taking a 2 week vacation
10:05@caker>No, I'll be around. Usually what happens when I go "home" is loads of free time, so I expect to code a bunch too
10:06@adamg>so why do you have more free time at home
10:06@adamg>I am trying to do some coding but cant get into it
10:06@caker>well, I haven't lived at home for 10+ years, so not much to do anymore :)
10:07@adamg>apart from run a business
10:07@caker>see the family, do family stuff .. yeah
10:07@adamg>so are you going to move from HE then once this new rack is full
10:08@caker>probably, since I'll only have ... 4 switch ports free after the next set of 8 servers (two are sitting next to me)
10:09@caker>I'm also going up to XO to do some work on the web servers
10:09@adamg>so by feb\march then
10:09@caker>so the linode site (etc) will come down for a bit
10:10@adamg>will lish still work and reboot etc
10:10@caker>Yeah, that'll take me out to end of Jan at least
10:10@adamg>so where next
10:10@caker>no, it won't in fact .. and it'll still report OK probably, too :)
10:10@caker>afk 1 sec
10:12@caker>I don't know where next, yet ... I started looking at equinox again yesterday
10:13@caker>I don't regret going with TP or HE, but it would be nice to find the right fit
10:13@adamg>and a carrier neutral would do that
10:13@caker>I was thinking about getting a full rack at TP -- comes with 2x 20amp power
10:13@caker>yeah, I need to start talks with them
10:13@adamg>it is always worth looking at the pricing
10:14@caker>adam, are you a student (you mentioned uni earlier), or ?
10:15@adamg>the nice thing about equinux is if you like them they have sites all over the US and in the other parts of the world
10:15@adamg>I mentioned uni?
10:15@adamg>but yes I am a student
10:15@adamg>along with other things
10:15@caker>university at some point -- in reference to your inet connection
10:15@adamg>one of the places I was doing tracerts from
10:16@adamg>equinix have a very good client list
10:16@caker>my cousin attends London business school
10:16@caker>I've never been out of the US, besides Bahama's :)
10:16@adamg>expensive things to do
10:17@adamg>well if you decide to expand dc's to outside the us you will have to take a trip
10:17+jax_work [~stbe@255-208-pool1.P-POOL.MARIST.EDU] joined #linode
10:21@adamg>i like the bit about the walls at equinix been bulletproof
10:22NeXTer>As long as their infrastructure is equally bulletproof, it's all good
10:22@adamg>but I also now of dcs in nueclear bunkers and on islands that shoot at people if they co-near,
10:23NeXTer>Nope, lost it
10:23NeXTer>Err... Wrong chan
10:26@adamg>there relaxation area looks nice as well
10:32@caker>having control over bgp would be nice, too, in the case where I'd want to move machines from one dc to another
10:33@adamg>well there is that
10:33@adamg>this place is nice as well in the uk though
10:33@adamg>and expensive
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10:38@adamg>caker you would also need your own arin allocation and registration etc
10:39@caker>yeah .. wonder how difficult acquiring blocks is...
10:39@adamg>in the short term it would be more expensive than going to somewhere like TP or HE, but it may aid you in the long term
10:39@adamg>as long as you can justify it you will get it
10:39ElfStone>caker: it will be hard since you need to adhear to there policys
10:40ElfStone>and HP and TP get it maybe under the isp and SP rules
10:40ElfStone>tho i am not up on arin's new policys
10:41@adamg>they should issue you the first c block without problem, after that you will have to show 80% usage before they will issue you another
10:41ElfStone>caker: tho it may be hard to get he and tp to let you use them on your network
10:42@caker>ElfStone: I wouldn't use these IPs at TP or HE...
10:42ElfStone>caker: where would you
10:42ElfStone>your next NOC?
10:42@caker>ElfStone: equinix, for example
10:43@adamg>carrier neutral nox
10:43@caker>Macromedia uses them
10:43@adamg>so do google, msn and a lot more
10:44ElfStone>i hrm
10:44ElfStone>you bring your own ips?
10:45ElfStone>if they are carrier neutral who gives them access to teh net
10:45@adamg>you choice
10:46@caker>Wow .. they have some funky web-interface for selecting your upstream providers, and it automates homing changes in their network
10:46@adamg>100+ carriers go into the NOC you choose who you want to do business with
10:46ElfStone>what is teh website?
10:46ElfStone>do you haev to pay the carrier
10:46ElfStone>or the noc?
10:46@adamg>the noc for the space and the carrier for the bw
10:47ElfStone>thatis what i though
10:47@adamg>not scene there website
10:47@caker>no minimum commitments, pay only for what you use
10:47ElfStone>can you buy a certain amount in advance?
10:47@caker>I believe so
10:47@adamg>you should be able to
10:48ElfStone>i am trying to find there server sectrion
10:48ElfStone>do they only do colo?
10:48ElfStone>nm then
10:48@caker>ElfStone: their, not there :)
10:48ElfStone>lists the sites they host
10:48@caker><-- father was an English teacher, can't help it
10:48ElfStone>the bigger ones anyway
10:48ElfStone>caker i am school now
10:49@caker>let me talk to your teacher :)
10:49ElfStone>i am in my CCNA
10:49ElfStone>it is a free class since it is the last day before vaction
10:49@caker>is this high school?!
10:50@caker>CCNA at high school?
10:50ElfStone>Cisco Cerite Networking Accicoate
10:50@caker>cisco certification
10:50ElfStone>big misspells
10:50ElfStone>we dun even pay for the class
10:50ElfStone>the school does
10:50@caker>not bad
10:50NeXTer>That's some language mutilation...
10:50ElfStone>we only haev to pay to take the exam
10:51@adamg>I dont know what the pricing is like for equinix though
10:51@caker>I'll find out :)
10:52ElfStone>caker: i am looking at a linode ot a ded from sago
10:52ElfStone>or a
10:52ElfStone>oh well
10:52ElfStone>i do not think i would do colo
10:53ElfStone>unless i could travel to the NOC easily
10:53@adamg>it may be a bit more expensive than TP or HE but it will give you alot more control
10:56ElfStone>caker: you own all teh servers linode uses or you rent them?
10:57=sighup [] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
10:58@adamg>some at he and tp and control servers at xo
10:59ElfStone>caker: if you del equinix and use there NY and Newark locations
10:59ElfStone>and you move to NJ
10:59ElfStone>you can visit them
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11:13@adamg>gotta stop playing computer games and get some work done
11:14tjfontaine>thats overrated
11:14@adamg>what work or playing gameas
11:14*tjfontaine looks at his messy cubicle
11:14@adamg>it may be overratted but I still have to get some coding done
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11:29nick>i have too many domain names
11:53=sjansen [~sjansen@] quit (Quit: Goodbye cruel world.)
11:55NeXTer>Too many would probably be defines as running out of inodes for zone files :P
12:03@adamg>and then just get another linode!!
12:15*adamg returns
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12:26@mikegrb>caker: I could live in an IBXflex cage :)
12:27@adamg>ibxflex inst a cage, it is an office
12:27@mikegrb>I could live there!
12:27@mikegrb>have access to cross connects
12:27@mikegrb>I could have gigabit to my place of residence :)
12:27@adamg>ibxflex in not in the dc, usual a building very close
12:27@mikegrb>now just to convince heidi to move
12:28@adamg>to a small 7' by 7' box
12:28@adamg>you would have good security though
12:28@mikegrb>with gigibit!
12:28@mikegrb>hand geometry scanners
12:28@adamg>biometric access to the cages
12:29@adamg>and you would have showers and a game room
12:29@adamg>and a kitchen
12:30@caker>no toilets though :)
12:32@mikegrb>caker: you must put linode servers there
12:32@mikegrb>you can hire me as the 24/7 baby sitter... "will work for bandwidth"
12:32@adamg>but which one there are 7 in the US i think
12:32@mikegrb>I will live in the IBXflex office
12:33@mikegrb>any of them adamg
12:33@adamg>just need to find out how expenisve it is
12:36@adamg>they should also be able to help you with arin or give you some tips
12:43risto>the first domain transfer register -> zoneedit completed :-)
12:46probonic>sighup, g7 probonic
12:46sighup>#G7 stats for probonic, the PornStar -- 96/110 Current Level: 17 | Time to next level: 0 days, 01:42:38 | Status: online | Item Total: 147 | Total Time Idled: 0 days, 12:38:45
12:47@mikegrb>I could have had fun on that call
12:48@mikegrb>somebody from the american medical association calling to verify a dr who did residency at this hospital
12:48@mikegrb>instead of transfering him to the right department I should have asked for the dr's info and put hijm on hold
12:48@adamg>so what do you do at the hospital
12:48@mikegrb>then told him no dr or even nurse by that name ever worked here
12:49@mikegrb>I am in charge of the medical archives department
12:49@adamg>and that would just be cruel
12:49@mikegrb>I transfered him to professional affairs instead
12:49@mikegrb>I get to play with nifty document imagers though :)
12:50@adamg>you should have left him on hold for an hour or so
12:50@mikegrb>see how long he laster?
12:50@adamg>depends how busy he was!
12:51@mikegrb>have you upgraded to the latest kernel?
12:51@mikegrb>does uptime seem correct?
12:52@mikegrb>mine is off by 34 hrs right now
12:52*adamg goes off to check the members section
12:53@adamg>12/18/2003 04:38:14 PM
12:53@adamg>been up 20:18
12:54@adamg>12:56 pm
12:55@adamg>so if the linode server is est, it is porbably right
12:55@mikegrb>looks it
12:56@adamg>well I make it 17:54 here, so 12:54 est
12:56@adamg>so the linode clock is either 2 mins fast or there is a descripency of 2 mins
12:57@caker>The host finish dt on the boot job entry comes from the host your Linode is on ..
12:57@caker>the entered date is from the webserver
12:57@adamg>oh ok
12:57@adamg>so it looks like it is correct the uptime
12:58@mikegrb>*nix is so nice :)
12:59@caker>actually, it does a Now() so both dates would be from the web/db server .. either way, there might be a time difference between the webserver's clock and the hosts ..
12:59@adamg>in the end the uptime is right!
13:00@caker>mikegrb: how many days up is your Linode to have 34 hrs off?
13:00@mikegrb>since the host reboot
13:00@mikegrb>exec grep eBay.\*PS2 /var/log/irc/\&orion/* | tail -n 1
13:00@mikegrb>sighup: ebay 3066382273
13:00sighup>eBay item 3066382273 - PS2 + Wheel/peddles +games + more [mikegreb(13)] US $59.00 [kvandivo(1 )] 5 days 8 hours to go
13:01@caker>wow only like 11 days uptime, and it's 34 hrs off?
13:01@mikegrb>though it varies
13:01@mikegrb>it had been off 10ish hours and then was magically right on
13:01@mikegrb>now it is off again
13:01@mikegrb>very confusing
13:01@adamg>are tiy selling or buying?
13:01*mikegrb is selling
13:02@mikegrb>can't go to ebay from work
13:02@mikegrb>so sighup++ helps me out ;)
13:02@adamg>why not
13:02@mikegrb>13:02 Server Up 10 days, 13:25:24
13:02@mikegrb>silly filtering proxies
13:02@mikegrb> 13:02:31 up 9 days, 3:22, 6 users, load average: 0.02, 0.07, 0.02
13:03@mikegrb>the first one is the ircd's uptime
13:03@mikegrb>it is based on the difference between startup and now
13:03@mikegrb>so is accurate
13:03@mikegrb>though it should be about a minute shorter then system uptime
13:03@caker>sighup: uptime
13:03sighup>caker: i'm not following you...
13:03@mikegrb>I need to add that
13:07*mikegrb wanders over to sighups src dir
13:09@mikegrb>sighup: reset!
13:09sighup>mikegrb: Okay.
13:09@mikegrb>sighup: uptime
13:09sighup> 13:09:19 up 9 days, 3:28, 6 users, load average: 0.07, 0.08, 0.02
13:24@adamg>sighup linode avail
13:24sighup>Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 32] [Linode 96: 0] [Linode 128: 17] [Linode 192: 0] [Linode 256: 0]
13:24@adamg>going slowly
13:27@mikegrb>caker: that friend tried clearing his cookies and cache
13:28@mikegrb>I dunno, silly shody military web stuffs
13:28@adamg>mikegrb how ofter are the pisg stats updated?
13:28@mikegrb>adamg: when ever I run 'em heh
13:28@mikegrb>I need to add a cron job
13:28@mikegrb>will probably do that tonight
13:29@mikegrb>I'll run 'em right now though
13:29@mikegrb>they be running
13:30@adamg>thats better
13:31@mikegrb>I added mod_rewrite goodness to my irc logs
13:31@mikegrb>so you can go to
13:32nick><3 mod_rewrite!
13:32@mikegrb>+ / on that url
13:32@mikegrb>nick: indeed
13:32@mikegrb>pretty badass stuff
13:32nick>damn powerful, if somewhat confusing at first
13:33@mikegrb>I need to read up more on it
13:33@mikegrb>all I've done so far is stuff like above url
13:33@mikegrb>passing the path elements as params to a script
13:33@mikegrb>I know a lot more is possible
13:33EFudd>friend of mine wrote a plugin, 'octopus' cause mod_rewrite was too limited
13:34EFudd>looking to see if i have an archive
13:34nick>i use it a lot on my website
13:34nick>which is down
13:34nick>else id show you examples
13:34@mikegrb>I want to convert the cms system I'm using to use mod_rewrite
13:35@mikegrb>I've made so many changes to it I might as well start a forked project heh
13:35nick>yeah thats what i did. now more querystring funkiness if it can be avoided
13:35*mikegrb no <3 bad query string joojoo
13:37@adamg>this day is not going to plan
13:37@mikegrb>still no coding?
13:37EFudd>the proprietor of said 'octopus' code is currently MIA. probably stoned out of his mind.
13:38@adamg>i keep looking at it and then go and play stupid games
13:38EFudd>he also shuts down his machine when he's not on it so i can't snarf the code directly
13:39@mikegrb>why would one do that?
13:43nick>my friend took out his hard drives and put them in a safe before going on a trip to italy
13:43nick>thats paranoid
13:45@adamg>depends what is on the hd
13:46nick>mp3s and stuff
13:46nick>the usual ~
13:46nick>porn too probably
14:38EFudd>"Eric Herman and MySQL's Brian "Krow" Aker have released code to allow the DBMS MySQL to run Java nativily inside of the database. The code allows users to write functions inside of the database that can be then used in SELECT/INSERT/UPDATE statements.
14:42NeXTer>So this means MySQL now has stored procedures?
14:42EFudd>no it has functions.
14:43EFudd>procedures are pieces of code that don't return data.
14:43EFudd>functions are pieces of code that can return data.
14:43@mikegrb>where was that last night when I needed it
14:43EFudd>There is a large difference next.
14:43@mikegrb>EFudd: you were asking about /sys last night?
14:43EFudd>mike, at some point, yeah.
14:43@mikegrb>it is a representation of the kernel device tree
14:44@mikegrb>hardware specific stuff
14:44EFudd>i just can't fathom it's use over /proc tho
14:44NeXTer>EFudd: I'm quite familiar with the difference, thank you
14:44EFudd>it's a duplicate as far as i can tell.
14:44@mikegrb>all that stuff in proc related to devices is being moved there
14:44EFudd>next, my bad, didn't want to step on toes.
14:44@mikegrb> /proc is for process info
14:44@mikegrb> /sys for hardware
14:44EFudd>mike, hrm. I see. /sys is just symlinks to ../devices
14:44@mikegrb> /dev for devies
14:44@mikegrb>like on my laptop I get cpu temp from /sys
14:45@mikegrb>via ACPI
14:45EFudd>i can't login to the box right now, but i do remember ls -al /sys/foo being symlinked to ../devices/real-path ... ala solaris
14:45NeXTer>Just not familiar with the specifics as applied to MySQL... I'm more of a Postgres fellow myself :P
14:45@mikegrb>The final, but possibly the most obvious, ramification of the new centralized infrastructure is the creation of a new "system" filesystem (to join 'proc' for processes, 'devfs' for devices, and 'devpts' for UNIX98 pseudo-terminals) called 'sysfs'. This filesystem (intended to be mounted on '/sys') is a visible representation of the device tree as the kernel sees it (with some exceptions). This representation generally includes a number of known attributes of the detected devices, including the name of the device, its IRQ and DMA resources, power status, and that sort of thing. However, one aspect of this change that may be confusing on the short term is that many of the device-specific uses of the "/proc/sys" directory may be moved into this new filesystem. This change has not (yet) been applied consistently, so there may continue to be an adjustment period.
14:45@mikegrb>that probably got cut off?
14:45EFudd>just another damn abstraction layer
14:46EFudd>"includes a number of known a"
14:46@mikegrb>a number of known attributes of the detected devices, including the name of the device, its IRQ and DMA resources, power status, and that sort of thing. However, one aspect of this change that may be confusing on the short term is that many of the device-specific uses of the "/proc/sys" directory may be moved into this new filesystem.
14:46@mikegrb>This change has not (yet) been applied consistently, so there may continue to be an adjustment period.
14:47*EFudd goes for shower
15:14inkblot>bash: No such file or directory.
15:16@guinea-sleep>apt-get install bash
15:17inkblot>bash is already the newest version.
15:19@guinea-sleep>bling bling
15:30@adamg>god this is starting to get annoying
15:32@adamg>anyone know if ER was on last night in the states
15:34tjfontaine>yes it was
15:34@guinea-sleep>maybe i *should* try the new kernel
15:34@guinea-sleep>oh wait, nevermind
15:34@guinea-sleep>that output was current time, not minutes:seconds
15:35@adamg>tjfontaine new episode?
15:35tjfontaine>I couldn't say
15:40*tjfontaine plans teg parties
16:03guinea-sleepis now known as guinea-pig
16:09@guinea-pig>yay a hog
16:10@guinea-pig>but who's this kvandivo person who summoned it? :p
16:14tjfontaine>nobel prize winner
16:14tjfontaine>mythtv developer
16:26@guinea-pig>everywhere i ask, nobody's heard of kings quest
16:26NeXTer>Err... What?
16:26@mikegrb>kings quest?
16:26EFudd>libretto is booting linsux !!!@#!#
16:26EFudd>I win!
16:26NeXTer>I've never played it on account of detesting Sierra adventures, but I sure as heck know about it
16:27@guinea-pig>kq9 is an independant
16:27NeXTer>I'm more of a LucasArts fellow myself
16:27@guinea-pig>and i've got me a date with one of the script co-writers tomorrow, and i just want to find out about the damn thing :p
16:28sjansen>I played King's Quest a long time ago.
16:28NeXTer>I don't subscribe to the idea that not spotting the screwdriver in scene one will make it impossible to finish the game five hours later
16:28@guinea-pig>now, i'm not a gamer but i've sure as hell heard of kq
16:28@guinea-pig>hitchhiker's infocom game is like that
16:29sjansen>ugh, I only tried two infocom games and quit in disgust
16:29NeXTer>Yeah, I know
16:29NeXTer>That thing with the weird inventory thing was pretty cool though
16:29NeXTer>Aren't you at one point supposed to put the thing inside the thing, or something like that?
16:54artifex>sighup seen caker
16:54sighup>caker was last seen on #linode 3 hours, 50 minutes and 54 seconds ago, saying: sighup: uptime [1071857025]
16:55artifex>remember awhile back i said if nick bought a linode, i wanted the refferal? ;-)
16:55nick>sighup: seen nick
16:55sighup>nick was last seen on #linode 0 seconds ago, saying: sighup: seen nick [1071870914]
16:55nick>cool thanks
16:58EFudd>ah fok.
16:58EFudd>chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash
16:59EFudd>FATAL: kernel too old
16:59EFudd>stupid debian.
16:59artifex>you need a younger kernel
16:59EFudd>gentoo isn't very friendly to computers that don't have a cdrom
16:59*artifex isnt, either
16:59nick>kernel too old
16:59nick>thats classy
17:00artifex>FATAL: nick too gay
17:01nick>asif theres a such thing as too gay
17:01=jax_work [~stbe@255-208-pool1.P-POOL.MARIST.EDU] quit (Quit: cd ~)
17:02artifex>if there were
17:02artifex>you'd be it
17:03nick> * IRC operators are there to keep sanity to the server and usually keep it
17:03nick> * maintained and connected to the network.
17:03nick>o rlyu
17:59+Griswald [] joined #linode
17:59@guinea-pig>THE GP IS BACK ON LINODE!
18:00@guinea-pig>oh wait
18:00Griswald>I was on dialup for almost a month
18:00Griswald>I bought a cable booster, my own cable modem, and now I'm online 10x better :)
18:03=sjansen [] quit (Quit: Goodbye cruel world.)
18:10inkblot>i got me a place in the city
18:10inkblot>with a phone line and a dsl
18:10inkblot>cable do me wrong
18:11Griswald>well, cable isn't saturated here
18:11Griswald>GREAT download/upload rates :)
18:11Griswald>200-300kb/s download, 30-40kb/s upload
18:12inkblot>dsl doesn't get saturated unless you saturate it yourself
18:12Griswald>I know
18:12Griswald>cuz it's not on shared bandwidth
18:13inkblot>no speakeasy cable
18:19guinea-pigis now known as guinea-sleep
18:20inkblot>tjfontaine, i'm going to shut off the spam now
18:33*adamg goes for food and coffee
18:39@mikegrb>grab me some adamg
18:40@adamg>the food or the coffee!
18:40@mikegrb>both ;)
19:14*EFudd sacraficed finger for computer's operational sanity just now
19:14EFudd>I was marveling at the red screws provided until I realized they were silver.
19:15inkblot>ha ha
19:15EFudd>yah.. bad one
19:27@mikegrb>well you know the upgrade will work okay
19:27@guinea-sleep>blood sacrifices are powerful
19:27@guinea-sleep>they wake me from my slumber!
20:06probonic>sighup: g7 probonic
20:06sighup>#G7 stats for probonic, the PornStar -- 95/110 Current Level: 19 | Time to next level: 0 days, 00:28:05 | Status: online | Item Total: 149 | Total Time Idled: 0 days, 19:08:45
20:10@adamg>sighup linode forums
20:10sighup>adamg: Sendmail and Email Related Forum: Settup up IMAP ; General Discussion: what else is in our kernel? ; Announcements: Kernel 2.4.23-linode18-7um ... ; General Discussion: Broken apt-get ; Sendmail and Email Related Forum: pop3, sendmail and xinetd ...
20:11*adamg pokes mikegrb
20:18*mikegrb pokes adamg
20:18@mikegrb>no not yet
20:18@mikegrb>perhaps this weekend
20:18@mikegrb>I have to look at the octopus stuff
20:18@mikegrb>and there was something else
20:19EFudd>octopus can apparently be instaleld as a module in apache2.
20:19*EFudd shrugs
20:19@mikegrb>but I guess that just got moved down the list b/c I don't remember what it was
20:19@mikegrb>that's good EFudd :)
20:19EFudd>`KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19-EN.iso' at 682542328 (92%) 93.0K/s eta:9m [Receiving d
20:19EFudd>The US Knoppix mirrors don't provide more than 10KB/sec of throughput apparently. I'm pulling that from .au
20:19@adamg>so what does octopus do
20:20@adamg>pull it from
20:20@mikegrb>tis a mod_rewrite type doobie
20:20EFudd>that doesn't suck.
20:20@mikegrb>if I like it enough I'll even make an ebuild and docs
20:20EFudd>basically a friend of mine got tired of limitations he was hitting with mod_rewrite so he wrote his own
20:21@adamg>fecking settings in mirc
20:21EFudd>debil! even.
20:21EFudd>I have a new favorite redbull type drink. "Stacker2 Stinger: Enraged Raspberry"
20:21EFudd>mm good
20:22@adamg>for some reasons it was auto rejecting tarballs
20:22EFudd>it is made by that same company who does the fat burner stuff
20:22*EFudd gives up now :P
20:23EFudd> <- Good !
20:23@adamg>should work now
20:23*EFudd snickers more
20:24EFudd>you can grab it there.
20:25@adamg>got it
20:25EFudd>excuse the mess in my ~
20:26EFudd>i keep trying to bait someone on into a discussion/argument about why gentoo sucketh for non-CD installations.
20:26EFudd>mostly unsuccessfully :/
20:27@mikegrb>frick'n big burger
20:28EFudd>always bored. but it's stil a frustrating point.
20:28EFudd>you have to understand i've been attempting to install linsux on this libretto L5 laptop off and on for the greater part of 2 wks. (mind you, there were some limitations that were preventing me from netbooting or even using a floppy until yesterday)....
20:29*Griswald is happy to be back on cable now.
20:29EFudd>Yeah, that was afor a poor coworker.
20:29NeXTer>Knoppix didn't work?
20:29=sighup [] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:30EFudd>At some point, I'll merge my old ~ into the current one.
20:30@mikegrb>I have now directed tjfontaine to it in the topic of another window
20:30+sighup [] joined #linode
20:30EFudd>Nexter, additional point of note: it is /impossible/ to boot that libretto from a CD.
20:31EFudd>the only options are CF boot, Floppy, or PXEboot. and CF was pretty futile due to frustations with linsux's usb_storage handler and hotplug.
20:31EFudd>usb_storage module tends to hose up after a couple of hotplugs in my experience.
20:31EFudd>at that point CPU utilization on my workstation goes through the roof and requires a reboot to fix. 'reboot, halt', etc fail to work and you have to physically power cycle the machine.
20:32EFudd>It left me very frustrated with the CF approach. That coupled with the fact that the only distributions designed for CF booting are crap-distributions like japanese stuffs for embedded devices.
20:32NeXTer>So bootfloppy+normal install CD? What distros have you tried so far?
20:32EFudd>Ok, lemme start over.
20:32EFudd>it is "impossible" to use a CD to install the machine.
20:32EFudd>No matter what boot medium you use to load an Os. :-)
20:32EFudd>IT's a design limitation of the libretto L5.
20:33NeXTer>Oh, I thought you meant it couldn't boot from it...
20:33EFudd>Actually, if you have a PCMCIA-CDrom, it can wrok. But I don't... nor will i purchase one for this.
20:33EFudd>As of about 4 hours ago, I was able to install debian using pxeboot...
20:33NeXTer>That's one nasty design...
20:33EFudd>however now i'm trying a few extra methods to get gentoo on it natively rather than bootstrapping through another installation.
20:34EFudd>libretto l5 was soley designed to run winxp in a japanese market :-)
20:34EFudd>I had to import the laptop
20:34EFudd>however i have a project that requires it, linux, and the ablity to use my sprint CF/pcmcia cell phone card ;-)
20:34EFudd>the card is wholly unsupported by linsux but I'm hoping to correct that.
20:35EFudd>basically gonna add a full-time network connection to my truck since my sprint card is $80/mo unlimited CDPD =]
20:35EFudd>if i can get the card functional, i'm gonna design an embedded system for the trucks console.
20:35NeXTer>So, basically you're up shit kreek, but _do_ have a paddle, huh?
20:36EFudd>well, I have a twig that bends in light breezes.
20:36EFudd>I do have a solid understanding of water mechanics tho !
20:36EFudd>anyway, someone mentioned that they were able to boot knoppix on their workstation and netboot their libretto off that knoppix install
20:36EFudd>so i'm about to cut myself off the network and give it a shot ;-)
20:37NeXTer>Ouch... Good luck
20:37*Griswald gives EFudd a lucky piece of pie to wear around his neck.
20:37EFudd>my previous limitation was the DHCP server on this network was 'd0ze (I do all my hax0ring at work)
20:37EFudd>I corrected that lastnight tho.
20:37EFudd>I randomly switch shit up here without telling anyone :P
20:38EFudd>"What checks and balances?"
20:38NeXTer>Windows as a DHCP server? Now that's a novel idea... For how long did that go on?
20:38EFudd>er, probably 5+yrs?
20:39EFudd>i've been here 3... and the previous machine was an old nt4 box
20:39NeXTer>And you only just now got around to fixing it? That's bad
20:39@mikegrb>you are saving the company from certain failurs
20:39@mikegrb>they should be happy
20:39EFudd>the last time we had "IT" here was over 2 years ago :P
20:39EFudd>it's not my job.
20:39@mikegrb>in fact, you deserve a raise
20:40NeXTer>Raises or IT?
20:40EFudd>Raises and competent IT.
20:40@mikegrb>both at his company
20:40EFudd>Ok, this is going to annoy me now.
20:40EFudd>KNoppix is 701MB
20:40EFudd>I have 80min CDs
20:41EFudd>nero refuses to burn that 701MB on this 700MB disc.
20:41*EFudd looks for overburn options
20:41NeXTer>Nope, just go into the settings and enable overburn
20:41EFudd>more than likely my burner won't support it. (it's a crap matushita(sp?) DVD-RAM in a toshiba laptop)
20:42NeXTer>That's unlikely
20:42EFudd>overburn is actually enabled.
20:42EFudd>And never underestimate the painfulness of this particular DVDRAM.
20:42EFudd>It, in fact, does not obey standards.
20:43EFudd>Which means I had a heck of a time using any burning software other than the ones provided by toshiba.. additionally tools such as the ones I use to bypass region-checks on 'd0ze will not work and cannot be made to work on that particular drive.
20:43NeXTer>Do you have _anything_ there that doesn't bend in a light breeze?
20:43EFudd>Yeah, my workstation.
20:43EFudd>when it's not running linsux :P
20:44NeXTer>On account of being built out of 10mm armor plating?
20:44*EFudd and nero have words
20:45EFudd>matshita dvd-ram uj-811 == ass
20:45inkblot>hmmm, linsux, eh?
20:45*EFudd loads up DVD Burner
20:45inkblot>never heard of it
20:46EFudd>linsux, by definition, is any distribution utilizing the linux kernel which sucketh. Notable mentions in this catagory are Redhat(11 on a scale that goes to 10), debian (3), ..
20:46inkblot>your experience is clearly tainted by something
20:46EFudd>debian is frustration with apt-*'s command structure.
20:46inkblot>among other things,
20:47NeXTer>Seems like it, although the verdict for Dead Rat seems pretty accurate
20:47inkblot>it seems that crappy hardware is one
20:47EFudd>Redhat is due to their absolutely crap-tastic dependency handling with rpm.
20:47inkblot>that has nothing to do with the kernel
20:47Griswald>I like mandrakes urpmi :)
20:47Griswald>installs straight from CD's
20:47EFudd>See definition of linsux.
20:47Griswald>too bad it dosen't work with linode :)
20:47EFudd>"any distribution..."
20:47inkblot>you said that by definition, it's a sucky kernel that makes linsux
20:48*EFudd EVADES
20:48inkblot>i don't see what red hat's package policy (lack of) has to do with the kernel's quality
20:48inkblot>please explain
20:48NeXTer>And since when does anyone run with a stock kernel?
20:48*Griswald runs stock mandrake on his dev pc
20:49inkblot>and apt-get is but one apt frontend
20:49inkblot>and those are a dime a dozen
20:49EFudd>Yanno you can fix Windows to be usable also. :-)
20:49NeXTer>I prefer aptitude myself
20:49inkblot>EFudd, it's not worth the money
20:49EFudd>My opinions are my own. =)
20:49inkblot>EFudd, and i don't care for the restrictions
20:50EFudd> /ignore Efudd
20:50inkblot>you too, sweetie
20:50EFudd>20:50 Ignoring ALL from efudd
20:50NeXTer>Windows does have its points... Like not having to hunt for 6528698 kernel patches to get a video card working in X...
20:51inkblot>that's a total non sequitur
20:51inkblot>windows doesn't use X
20:51EFudd>burn4free is unable to communicate with that MATSHITA drive. ;-)
20:51EFudd>My Windows system utilizes X.
20:51inkblot>only because you made it
20:52inkblot>you don't honestly think that's common practice, do you?
20:52EFudd>There isn't much I believe is common anywhere. ;-)
20:53NeXTer>It's an invalid point because windows doesn't use X? In that case the case can be made that my reason fails because Windows isn't a Linux distro...
20:54inkblot>NeXTer, that is correct, you do not have to search for 6528698 kernel patches to get X (or anything else) working on windows
20:54EFudd>redhat is quite useful at auto-detecting devices and working on most end-user hardware out of the box. It is quite good if you utilize their tools to manage the system's configuration.
20:54inkblot>first of all, there are no patches for windows that you can get
20:54inkblot>second of all, the vast majority of windows systems don't run X, patches or not
20:55inkblot>and third, i suppose you're right,
20:55NeXTer>No, because Windows doesn't utilize a monolithic kernel, but rather a microkernel with attached drivers
20:55inkblot>'s not linux
20:55inkblot>and frankly,
20:55inkblot>i've never had to patch a kernel to make video work
20:55inkblot>in any operating system
20:56inkblot>sounds like crappy hardware to me
20:56inkblot>(and yes, unsupported == crappy)
20:56NeXTer>Yeah, a crappy GF3 and a crappy Radeon
20:57+ElfStone [] joined #linode
20:57ElfStone>caker, what was the place you were lookiong at earlier?
20:58NeXTer>Sure, I agree that it's nasty of both nVidia and ATi to not release GPL drivers for Linux, forcing you to patch the kernel, but that's life
21:03ElfStone>kk thanks
21:08EFudd>o, nero6 has a bug that prevents it from overburning
21:08*EFudd patches
21:08@mikegrb>patches, in windows? ;)
21:08EFudd>no! it's a fbsd patch actually.
21:08EFudd>cross-Os platform!
21:08@mikegrb>caryon then
21:08*EFudd nods
21:08NeXTer>I see... I never upgraded from the 5.5 series
21:09NeXTer>Good to know
21:12EFudd>I'm so unorganized. I have ~30GB of data in my ~ across 3 machines.
21:13NeXTer>You think that's disorganized? I have my ~ across three machines :P
21:13EFudd>whoah. some folk are ballsy. there is a faq item for knoppix on: wget -O - http://knoppix.image | cdrecord -v speed=4 -eject -
21:14NeXTer>EFudd: Something tells me that not quite what you meant to say...
21:15EFudd>Er, as far as I'm aware, it is.
21:16EFudd>21:15 <@EFudd> steve, are you telling me you used to drive your ferrari with
21:16EFudd> the top down in the rain? ;-)
21:16EFudd>21:16 <@jimmie> i drive anything with the top down in the rain
21:16EFudd>21:16 <@jimmie> a car is a car is a car
21:16EFudd>must be nice to have millionz
21:16NeXTer>EFudd: Hmm... At first sight it looked like a mispaste...
21:17EFudd>No. that's a wget pipping to standard out with cdrecord reading from stdin
21:18inkblot>what's the data rate of a 4x burn?
21:18NeXTer>Yeah, I got that at closer inspection (what's http://knoppix.image though?
21:18NeXTer>600 KB/s
21:18NeXTer>4x 150
21:18inkblot>KB or Kb?
21:18EFudd>whoop. burning.
21:18NeXTer>KB/s, not Kbps
21:19inkblot>technically, kb/s and kB/s are valid notations for "kilobits per seconds" and "kilobytes per second"
21:20inkblot>whereas KB/s is not a valid notation for "kilobytes per second"
21:20inkblot>the "k" for "kilo" isn't capitalized
21:20inkblot>this is mostly a moot point because it never stands for anything (that I know of)
21:20inkblot>but it makes a big difference with "m"
21:21inkblot>s/anything/anything else/
21:22NeXTer>That's why one usually makes the distinction apparent mby writing Kilobytes per second as KB/s and kilobits per second as kbps
21:22=ElfStone [] quit (Quit: Leaving)
21:25inkblot>NeXTer, a lot of people *don't* make the distinction, which is why i asked in the first place
21:26inkblot>it's good that you're not a heathen
21:26NeXTer>Thanks... I think...
21:31EFudd>knoppix appears to be useful.
22:13=Griswald [] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:24+Griswald [] joined #linode
23:16+Evane|work [~glenn@] joined #linode
23:16Evane|work>anyone experiencing trouble with there linode on host 1
23:16@caker>evane = glenn?
23:17@caker>Hey -- taking a look now, 1 sec
23:18@caker>ok, that was an easy one... Sometimes UML doesn't exit correctly, and leaves behind a thread that keeps your filesystems locked.
23:18@caker>killed, and now your Linode is back up
23:19@caker>no problem. I'll look into a way to handle that scenario in the shutdown procedure... cya
23:20Griswald>caker, I think I solved that one guys DNS problems last week or so :)
23:20Griswald>no response back since I posted the linux DNS how-to :)
23:40@adamg>why are the simplest things always so fucking hard
23:49@adamg>god its taking them along time to get the debian servers back online
23:50EFudd>fresh install of XP SP1 results in 35 to-be-installed patches.
23:50*EFudd ponders
23:50@adamg>and as you install patches, more will appear
23:50NeXTer>Sounds like just about any freshly installed OS
23:50EFudd>adam, ayup.
23:51EFudd>at least i have knoppix to entertain me whilst this is going on
23:51NeXTer>Of course, the problem with Windows is that normally you don't have time to get online and get the patches before the friendly RPC viruses have made sure you're up to date with the latest crop...
23:51@adamg>yeah but with things like debian it takes 1 command and it will update everything and not have to reboot with xp it takes loads of user time and loads of reboots
23:52NeXTer>And that
23:52@adamg>but if you have a decent firewall in place you should never get the rpc viruses
23:53EFudd>this is entertaining tho
23:53EFudd>as I'm patching, windows is suggesting i patch
23:53NeXTer>Yeah, unfortunately there are lots of people who don't have the skill nore the money to invest in a decent router/fw
23:53NeXTer>Anyway... seeing as it's 05:53, I should probably go to bed now...
23:54@adamg>route/firewall old 166 and smoothwall
23:54NeXTer>And Joe Sixpack wouldn't be able to spell that, let alone figure out how to use it or even why
23:55@adamg>thats not the point
23:55NeXTer>That is very much the point
23:55@adamg>then they shouldnt be on the net
23:56-UML_ChanLog [~stats@] left #linode (Rotating Logs)
23:56NeXTer>Banning 99% of all internet users would certainly cut the noise/signal ratio...
23:56+UML_ChanLog [~stats@] joined #linode
23:56@adamg>or they should expect what they get
23:57inkblot>or vendors shouldn't be sloppy
23:57inkblot>or or or or or or
23:57inkblot>(this debate has been had many times)
23:58NeXTer>And the bottom line is: M$ sucks at security
23:59NeXTer>Anyway... Night
23:59inkblot>no, the bottom line is that most user/admins/developers/vendors suck at security
---Logclosed Sat Dec 20 00:00:02 2003