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#linode IRC Logs for 2005-06-24

---Logopened Fri Jun 24 00:00:20 2005
00:02Dreamer3 caker: does the new client kernel fix the 100% cpu kirqsoft bug
00:02@caker Dreamer3: no
00:02Dreamer3 ok :)
00:03Dreamer3 just checking
00:04gpd from firehol cvsview: Added support for /proc/config.gz for kernel configuration. (4months ago)
00:04Dreamer3 firehol?
00:10gpd Dreamer3: what is your question?
00:11Dreamer3 gpd: i dunno
00:11Dreamer3 just wonderinf what it was
00:11gpd frontend to iptables - ie a firewall
00:11gpd just trying it out
00:12Dreamer3 gpd: i have a firewall script i've doctored of the years, need to install it on my linode
00:13gpd give firehol a go... seems almost too easy ;-)
00:14Dreamer3 gpd: is it web admin?
00:14gpd no simple conf file
00:14gpd no, simple firehol.conf file (that comma is critical)
00:17@mikegrb gpd is critical
00:17gpd mikegrb: got stung by that comma yesterday - ended up in a completely confusing conversation until i realized... :-)
00:18@mikegrb it's sharp
00:19--- ---> Dreamer3_ [] has joined #linode
00:20@mikegrb Dreamer3_: you should open a ticket with quest
00:20@mikegrb I'd tell them that's unacceptable
00:20@mikegrb sla or not
00:20Dreamer3_ mikegrb: huh?
00:20@mikegrb your connection is crap
00:20Dreamer3_ mikegrb: it's dialup :)
00:20Dreamer3_ amen
00:20@mikegrb ohhh
00:20@mikegrb then you /really/ should use your linode
00:21--- <<-- Dreamer3 [] has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
00:22Dreamer3_ mikegrb: i tried earlier, but kept getting disconnected
00:22@mikegrb that's the point!
00:22gpd screen irssi
00:22Dreamer3_ yeah
00:22gpd screen -d if you get chucked
00:23Dreamer3_ mikegrb: i mean i couldn't get logged into my linode and get irssi installed
00:23@caker +++ATH
00:23gpd (only found -d the other day... )
00:23@mikegrb apt-get install irssi-text
00:23warewolf 0
00:23Dreamer3_ gpd: looks too simple :)
00:23gpd it is ;-)
00:24gpd I got chucked 3 times in the last hour due to dodgy firehol config... did you notice... I think not.
00:28Dreamer3_ gpd: neat... it's simple... i want to know what "Strong" does though
00:29Dreamer3_ gpd: i like this concent kinda :)
00:29gpd Dreamer3_: it loads super beefcake uber magick?
00:30Dreamer3_ gpd: i dunno
00:31Dreamer3_ gpd: you haven't been using "try" and "commit" have you?
00:31gpd Dreamer3_: no, where is that? You are obviously *reading* the docs ;-)
00:31Dreamer3_ seems like exactly what you need
00:32Dreamer3_ gpd: try reading :)
00:32gpd nahh... where is the fun in that!
00:34<Dreamer3_ > good
00:34<Dreamer3_ > it has an "explain" command
00:34<Dreamer3_ > wow
00:34<taupehat >
00:34<Dreamer3_ > like SQL :)
00:34<Dreamer3_ > i'm going to use this :)
00:35<@caker > taupehat: unreal ...
00:36<taupehat > heh
00:36<taupehat > check this:
00:36<taupehat >
00:36<taupehat > supporting ebay link:
00:36<taupehat >
00:37<@caker > yeah, saw that one
00:37<taupehat > haha
00:37<taupehat > that's just beautifu
00:37<taupehat > l
00:40<gpd > do we like awstats?
00:41<taupehat > I don't know, gpd. Do we?
00:41<gpd > taupehat: it had an exploit a while ago... but it produces pretty things
00:42|-|Dreamer3_ [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:45<@caker> <-- could this guy have copied off any more?
00:46<gpd>cheeky bstrd
00:46<@caker>he even has the little (new) bold text next to new distros .. more to come, etc... rest of the site mimics just as much
00:46<taupehat>it's pretty much a clone
00:46<taupehat>but with crappier prices
00:46<taupehat>you could go in the forums and publicly let him know of your displeasure
00:46<taupehat>or better yet
00:47<taupehat>join #quantact in this ircnet
00:47<@caker>I've talked to him
00:47<taupehat>what's his deal?
00:47<gpd>fight... fight... fight...
00:47[~]taupehat is a pretty effective thug...
00:48<@mikegrb>oh man
00:49<@caker> "We have 24 registered users"
00:49<@mikegrb>even quanbot
00:50<taupehat>I'm user491 in the irc chan
00:50<@mikegrb>taupehat: I'm the other one
00:50<@caker>mikegrb: does that still whois you whenever you type?
00:50<taupehat><user491> ...
00:50<taupehat>* user491 wonders what differentiates quantact from
00:50<taupehat>no answer
00:51<taupehat>the next item was you joining
00:51<@mikegrb>caker: the bot in #uml?
00:51<@caker>mikegrb: yeah
00:51<@caker>oh, he's no longer in there
00:52<@caker>oh well
00:52<taupehat>I promise to not flame/troll that channel
00:52<gpd>is the LPM gpl'd or even out there at all?
00:52<@caker>gpd: nah
00:52<@mikegrb>caker: well, the site looks nothing alike, his urls all end in .cgi, yours are .cfm
00:52<@caker>mikegrb: yeah, I know there's no technology that's been taken
00:53<@caker>just, have some originality already ..
00:53<@caker>anyway, I'm over it :)
00:53<taupehat>so now
00:53<taupehat>half the human beings in that channel are known to be in here
00:53<@caker>I knew it he used ours as a template before, but what surprised me this time was that it looks even more so like
00:54<@mikegrb>gpd: it'd be funny if it was hosted on a linode
00:54<gpd>indeed... ;)
00:54<taupehat>roflz, too
00:56<linbot>New news from forums: FTP and mysql in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
00:56<taupehat>how long does activation take?
00:56|-|internat [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
00:57<@mikegrb>taupehat: for you?
00:57<taupehat>I think in my case, it took about 2.4 minutes
00:57<@mikegrb>oh you meant for them
00:57<internat>any database type expects here?
00:57<taupehat>mikegrb: yeah, you had to be there
00:58<gpd> = Tim Doyle, mt dora fl... you think that is real?
00:58<@caker>internat: nah, Linode uses all flat files
00:58<@caker>internat: :-p -- what's up?
00:58[~]taupehat is instantly suspicious of any internet company based in fla
00:58<@mikegrb>I am an internet company
00:58<@mikegrb>and I am based in florida
00:58<taupehat>say it isn't so!
00:59<taupehat>OH NO!!!
00:59<@mikegrb>[00:58] <@plorpington> ok i just logged in using their irc.cgi
00:59<@mikegrb>[00:58] <@plorpington> <user900> hey, i needed some help with my linode
00:59<gpd>1502 north donelly ... get over there mikegrb
00:59<taupehat>caker: it's really mikegrb... he's cheating behind your back!
00:59<internat>im like thinking of how im goinig to set up my virtual hosting stuff.. and i dont even have the slightest clue if this is possible or not, i have a feeling it isnt, but basicly have one master table for just usernames/passwords and that kinda auto propogates to the other tables.. like umm.. trying to think of example
00:59<gpd>I am now support for quantact...
00:59<@mikegrb>taupehat: shhh
00:59<internat>like if i have afield in the master table like disabaled that it propgates down to all the other tables that the account is diabled..
00:59<taupehat>internat: you don't want that stuff in multiple tables
01:00<taupehat>that's a normalization error
01:00<internat>no i dont think i do either
01:00<internat>well actually
01:00<internat>nah not shell logins
01:00<@caker>internat: anything that uses PAM could use that
01:00<internat>basicly, i have virtual tables for proftpd for virtual users, and virtual tables for mysql..
01:00<internat>err mail*
01:01<internat>and i kinda wanna combine them but there would be a lota wierd stuff if they were combined..
01:01<internat>i THINK want i need to do is make some sort of check, like have a master table, with username password and account status, and then other tables basicly references it
01:01<taupehat>internat: just create a Grand Unified 'Users' table and make the PK in it a foreign key to the other tables
01:02<internat>taupehat, i think thats kinda wnat i want.. but i dont know how to do that
01:02<taupehat>you're going to need to do some design work =]
01:03<internat>so the users table would just contain username/password/acccount status, and then theree would be like a table for the mail stuff that has if they are a mail user etc, but what i guess im finding the problem in is, linking the tables together
01:03<internat>does mysql support that? i know there was something that it didnt support
01:04<gpd > internat: suggests you should use Webmin VirtualMin; they offer it 'free' ;-)
01:05-!-eco|w [] has quit [Quit: This quit message intentionally left humorless]
01:05<internat > yeah i know about virtualmin, but i wana try doing it myself.. im stuborn :P
01:06<gpd>caker: who was user900... btw... was that genuine?
01:06<taupehat>CREATE TABLE Users (id TINYINT, username VARCHAR(20), password VARCHAR(40)...
01:06<taupehat>from the other one
01:07<taupehat>SELECT u.username, c.lastposted FROM Users U, Current C WHERE = C.user_id etc etc
01:07<taupehat>assuming a table "Current" with a value user_id and proper constraints etc
01:08<internat>hmms.. ok
01:08<taupehat>I also screwed up that query
01:08<internat>yeah i thought it would be a create again?
01:08<taupehat>should be U.username, C.lastposted
01:08<taupehat>I was just showing you an example of how to make the Users table useful in another table
01:09<taupehat>a very basic example, by the way
01:09<taupehat>there are other, more powerful ways to make use of this type of thing
01:09<internat>yeah i remember that stuff from highschool ipt where we did databases.. thats all got to be done at sql queury time tho isnt iit
01:10<internat>query side is really the only way of doing it isnt it?
01:11<internat > my sql doesnt support recursive selects does it? ie select blah from blah where field1 = (select field10 from blah2 where 1) kinda thing
01:14<taupehat>internat: that's a subquery, and mysql 4.1 does it
01:16<@mikegrb>taupehat: but it's not what he really wants
01:16<@mikegrb>taupehat: just what he thinks he wants ;)
01:16<internat>tell u what.. lets put this question on hold..
01:16<taupehat>good idea =]
01:16<internat>im goin gto draw some db tables up in a minute, and ill post them
01:16[~]taupehat just got offered some mysql dev project work
01:17<internat>and yeah im only running mysql 4.0
01:17<internat>Version: 4.0.24-10
01:18<taupehat>so upgrade =]
01:18<internat>whats the differences really
01:19<taupehat>mysql website is an excellent resource
01:19<internat>im just using whatever i got when i did apt-gete install mysql :P
01:19<internat>and mysql-server
01:19<internat>im just corious to know why debian has it in 2 packages
01:19<taupehat>you should do a dist-upgrade
01:19<internat>and that 4.0 hasnt auto been upgraded to 4.1
01:19<internat>i did
01:19<taupehat>sarge is now 'stable'
01:20<internat>have they made a new testing for security yet?
01:20<bob2>testing doesn't get security updates
01:20<internat> had no testing security for a while
01:20<bob2>atm, anyway, maybe people will volunteer to do it for etch
01:20<internat>actually.. i thought it did
01:21<internat>because they used to have for apt a security section for testing, but when sarge went stable the testing link broke so my apt-get started failing
01:22<@mikegrb>once sarge was frozen security took over handling security updates for it
01:22<internat>yeah mysql-server isnt getting changed to 4.1 when i do a dist-upgrade
01:22<bob2>internat: correct
01:22<@mikegrb>now that sarge is now stable there is again no security updates for testing
01:22<bob2>internat: perhaps you want the mysql-server-4.1 package?
01:22<bob2>mikegrb: well, there's one, for qpopper
01:22<internat>obviously, i was just talking about why do they ahve 2 packages.
01:22<bob2>which surrises me
01:22<bob2>internat: I'd guess -4.1 is incompatible in some way
01:22<bob2>or not stable yet
01:23<internat>why would u have a mysql-server and a mysql-server-4.1 yeah.. that suprised me
01:23<internat>im running testing so the ffact that it isnt stable shouldnt matter
01:23<@mikegrb>I just have bob2 store all my records on scraps of paper and not wonder too far from the computer
01:23[~]bob2 "dist-upgrades" mikegrb in the face
01:24<internat>as one does..
01:24<internat>*sends massive queerys to bob2*
01:28<internat>well that managed to successfully kill conversation
01:29<gpd>so i messed up my awstats... now i need to go back through the old logs...
01:30<gpd>simplest way to script *.log.XX.gz in reverse numerical order?
01:30<bob2>by "script" you mean "list"?
01:31<gpd>list would do... need to run -logfile xxxxx
01:31<bob2>there's no sh glob for that
01:31<bob2>I assume zsh could
01:31<bob2>since zsh globs can conquer small nations
01:33<gpd>never tried zsh... contemplating ls *.log | sort -n type thing but 1, 10, 11... 19,2
01:34[~]gpd reaches for perl...
01:34<@mikegrb>the -n in sort -n is numeric and takes care of 1, 10 - 19, etc
01:36<gpd>doesn't seem to... is ls log.* | sort -n sufficient? single digits are in wrong places...
01:37<internat>i think joins are going to be whaht im going to need to do.. the more i look at my database structure the more i realisee, yep thats how its going to have to work :)
01:37<@mikegrb>the issue is likely that the numbers are not at the beginnig
01:37<@mikegrb>I'm sure it doable in shell but I'd do perl
01:37<@mikegrb>s/it/it is/
01:38<gpd>mikegrb: ya sounds like a plan... but sleep sounds like a better plan... ttfn
01:40[~]gpd discovers tac... falls in love... runs away
01:52<internat>anyone know off the top of their head if the proftpd-mysql package has quota support compiled in?
01:54<OvrLrd-Q>alright what'd i miss while I watched some zombies get shot
01:55<OvrLrd-Q>internat: dunno of the top of my head but be easy to find out
01:56<internat>cause i have enabled the quota support in the config file but its not querying anything for it in the db so soething is broken, and i have afeeling its going to be that its not compiled in
01:58<@mikegrb>or it could be using disk quotas
01:58<@mikegrb>but I've never used it
01:59<internat>it has a modquotas thing that is meant to read the stuff from a mysql table..
01:59<OvrLrd-Q>figure what you got to do to compile it in then look in
01:59<OvrLrd-Q>debian diff and see how it calls $whatever_you_gotta_call_to_compile_it_in
02:00<internat>err debian diff?
02:00<internat>dont get whaht u m ean, i know what id need to type to compile it..
02:00<internat>so u mean like download the source package and have a look if it gets compiled in the make file with it?
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+# This is the suite of modules maintained in debian/, not upstream CVS.
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+# To enable mod_pgsql, put it after or in place of mod_mysql.
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+# Always keep in order modules. If in doubt ask to #proftpd ...
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+#EXTRAMODS = mod_mysql:mod_ratio:
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+QUOTAMOD = mod_quotatab:
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+EXTRAMODS = mod_ratio:mod_tls:mod_rewrite:mod_radius:mod_wrap:mod_quotatab_file:mod_delay:
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+MYSQLMODS = mod_sql:mod_sql_mysql:mod_quotatab_sql:
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+PGSQLMODS = mod_sql:mod_sql_postgres:mod_quotatab_sql:
02:00<OvrLrd-Q>+LDAPMODS = mod_ldap:mod_quotatab_ldap:
02:01<OvrLrd-Q>looks like the module for it is compiled in so dunno :)
02:02<internat>whered u get that from?
02:02<OvrLrd-Q>the debian diff
02:02<internat>what is the debian diff? i idont understand what that is?
02:02<OvrLrd-Q>good place to start is<packagenamehere>
02:02<bob2>you apply the debian diff to the upstream source package you get a debian source package
02:03<OvrLrd-Q>what bob said
02:03<bob2>which has various things in debian/ needed to produce a .deb
02:03<internat>so where do debian diffs comefrom?
02:03<internat>like are they in the .deb tree somewhere/
02:03<bob2>or lots of .debs, as the case may be
02:04<internat>so somewhere in apt-get search there would be a debian difff?
02:04<internat>for proftpd that is
02:05<OvrLrd-Q>did you set it up correctly in your config?
02:06<internat>i believe so..
02:06<OvrLrd-Q>cate to paste what you got :)
02:06<OvrLrd-Q>for QuotaLimitTable
02:07<internat>1 sec
02:07<OvrLrd-Q>read that file
02:08<internat>QuotaLimitTable sql:/get-quota-limit
02:08<internat>QuotaTallyTable sql:/get-quota-tally/update-quota-tally/insert-quota-tally
02:08<internat>which points to the sql function..
02:08<internat>SQLNamedQuery get-quota-limit SELECT "name, quota_type, per_session, limit_type, bytes_in_avail, bytes_out_avail, bytes_xfer_avail, files_in_avail, files_out_avail, files_xfer_avail FROM ftpquotalimits WHERE name = '%{0}' AND quota_type = '%{1}'"
02:09<OvrLrd-Q>and you're icnluding the mysql module like:
02:10<internat>i dont undnerstand what u mean by that
02:10<OvrLrd-Q>however you specify modules to use/load/whatever
02:10<OvrLrd-Q>i've never messed with ProFTPD so i'm just going by what the doc's say
02:11<internat>i havnt had to specifiy modules.. to me that looks like what would be compiled in when u issue make
02:13<bob2>internat: apt-cache search works on binary packages, not source packages
02:13<bob2>and, yes, things like lm-sensors-source are binary packages in this sense
02:13<internat>ah ok.. so how do u search the source packages?
02:14<bob2>you don't, in general
02:14<internat>fair enuff
02:14<bob2>each source package produces n binary packages
02:15<bob2>if you want to modify one of the binary packages, you get their source package, hack it, and build it again
02:16<OvrLrd-Q>is your SQLConnectInfo line correct?
02:16<OvrLrd-Q>checking your mysql logs? does it show anything?
02:16<internat>yes.. cause i can authenitcate to it
02:17<OvrLrd-Q>QuotaEngine on?
02:18<internat>QuotaEngine on
02:18<internat>QuotaDirectoryTally on
02:18<internat>QuotaDisplayUnits Mb
02:18<internat>QuotaShowQuotas on
02:18<OvrLrd-Q>so if you're tailing the mysql log file, you can see the queries when you log on, but nothing when you get a file and the quotas should update?
02:19<OvrLrd-Q>what happens when you do a SHOW QUOTAS on the server?
02:20<OvrLrd-Q>or err SITE QUOTAS or whatever the command is
02:20<internat>umm it outtputs unlimited for everything
02:20<internat>yeah site quota
02:21<OvrLrd-Q>and nothing showed up in MySQL?
02:21<OvrLrd-Q>lemme install it right quick
02:21<internat>lol its kinda being a paoin in the ass
02:21|-|Shaun [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
02:22<OvrLrd-Q>i use vsftp it's teh awesome :)
02:22<internat>thats why i seriously think that it might have something todo with quotas not being installed or soemthing like that
02:22<OvrLrd-Q>they run off of it :P
02:22<internat>yes so ive hurd :P
02:23<internat>but i dont want to have to change my entire setup for it :P
02:24<internat>does it support autentication via mysql table?
02:25<internat>without having todo pam-mysql
02:30<OvrLrd-Q>.. - Fatal: unknown configuration directive 'Quotas' on line 31 of '/etc/proftpd.conf'.
02:30<OvrLrd-Q>well isn't that nice
02:31<internat>what line is that?
02:31<OvrLrd-Q># Uncomment this if you would use quota module:
02:31<OvrLrd-Q>Quotas on
02:31<internat>oh.. interesting
02:32<internat>u know i dont know if i have that line uncommented
02:32<internat>yeah that broke her
02:33<OvrLrd-Q>thats just . . . .stupid
02:33<internat>so.. i guess quota support isnt compiled in then..
02:34<internat>thats.. kinda.. very stupid
02:34<OvrLrd-Q>it is its just . . .
02:34<internat>so looks like im going to have to compile it myself.. great stuff
02:35<OvrLrd-Q>not it's in there
02:35<internat>well obviously its not working properly if enabling that line breaks it
02:35<OvrLrd-Q>either the proftpd dev is stupid . . . or the debian dev is stupid . . . or the whole thing is stupid . . . im trying to figure out which
02:35<internat>its interesting because the howto that i followeed never used to have the quota on thing in the config file
02:39<OvrLrd-Q>works for me
02:40<OvrLrd-Q>after adding in a quota for my user in the db
02:40<OvrLrd-Q>did a SITE QUOTA and listed what I put in
02:42<OvrLrd-Q>and just uploaded a file
02:42<OvrLrd-Q>and it updated the quotas
02:42<OvrLrd-Q>soooooo check your config again :)
02:43<OvrLrd-Q>i copied the config from there
02:43<OvrLrd-Q>from the # User Quotas line down
02:43<warewolf>SITE QUOTA, is this FTP?
02:46<internat>dammit thats the thing im using
02:46<internat>i followed that thing to the letter
02:46<internat>wanna send me ur config file minus the passwords?
02:47|-|tierra [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
02:48<OvrLrd-Q>lemme see if it's still there
02:53<internat>so didnt need quotas on in ur config file
02:54<OvrLrd-Q>dunno why it's there if it breaks things
02:54<OvrLrd-Q>somebody up the chain is doing a terrible job maintaining their code
02:55<internat>yeah.. hence why u use vsftp right :P
02:57<OvrLrd-Q>yup :)
02:57<OvrLrd-Q>i dont use it much
02:58<OvrLrd-Q>scp for the win
02:59<internat>i want it for my hosting users
03:01<internat>wow ive broken something now
03:02<internat>god dammit.. wtf have i done now..
03:04<OvrLrd-Q>shuddup mike lol
03:04<OvrLrd-Q>fix that script lol
03:05<OvrLrd-Q>yea that's annoying i actually thought here was here the first time i lol'ed
03:06<internat>nope its definatly broken
03:07<internat>the quotas is just not working
03:07<OvrLrd-Q>dunno :)
03:07<internat>this is bs.. just work dammit
03:08<internat>frig it.. ill destroy my config file and build it from scratch
03:09<internat>thats the only thing i can think of as a possibility
03:15|-|Newsome [] Spierdolil z kanalu #linode [Leaving]
03:22<internat>nope.. i cant log in at all now.. woot for breakage
03:24<internat>well i fixed login, but now its still not doing the quota stuff
03:26<internat>OvrLrd-Q u still arround?
03:35|-|loser1792109629 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
03:35|-|Dreamer3 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
03:35<Dreamer3>who uses firehol?
03:42|-|OvrLrd-Q [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:44<internat>i swear im going to lose it soon
03:48<internat>its definatly not attempting to update it
03:48<Dreamer3>i want to get firehol working
03:49<internat>ive been playing with this all afternoon and there is no logical reason why it shouldnt work
04:06<Dreamer3>i need a firehol patched for linode
04:09<internat>doesnt it work already with it?
04:10<internat>no the debian versioun of proftpd is definatly broken
04:25|-|Shaun [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: ]
04:34|-|Shaun [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
04:42<internat>blonde moment.. how do u extract stuff from a .gz file.. not a tar.gz just a .gz
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05:46|-|loser1792109629 Ma teraz nicka OvrLrd-Q
06:47[~]OvrLrd-Q is away, auto-away after 60 minutes, (log\off pager\on)
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07:32|-|Redgore [redgore@] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
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09:04<linbot>New news from forums: load avg=1.00 display bug when idle in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
09:04[~]tronip bows ;)
09:07|-|abock [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
09:24|-|DrPete [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
09:24<DrPete>Hmm, a few peeps here then
09:24<DrPete>Anyone from linode here?
09:25<SupaZubon>DrPete: mikegrb and caker are from linode, but the rest of us can assist with many problems
09:26<DrPete>Ahh, i thought that might be the case, ops gave it away :)
09:26<DrPete>Well I am thinking of testing out a VPS, convince me, lol
09:27<SupaZubon>haha, there are quite a few folks in here who are fond of that discussion
09:27<DrPete>I used to have dedi servers, but I have gave up the busniess, I am looking for a cheaper alternative and VPS seems impressive
09:28[~]SupaZubon nods
09:28<SupaZubon>what level were you looking at?
09:29<encode>vps gives u control to do what you want, without the cost of colo
09:31<encode>plus u dont have to worry about the hardware
09:31<encode>just my 2c
09:31<encode>im off to bed
09:31<SupaZubon>linode's VPS migration stuff is great, too
09:33<SupaZubon>DrPete: basically the VPS is plenty fast enough for almost anything, and the only real contention is block I/O. Caker wrote some kernel patches to limit disk I/O resources with an automatically refreshing token system.
09:34<SupaZubon>Caker's been pretty active in the UML project, and he's moving everything over to Xen soon (with a seamless upgrade for users: I think you'll just have to reboot)
09:34<encode>will xen effect the speed of i/o at all?
09:36<SupaZubon>I don't think it will have a noticeable effect
09:36<SupaZubon>although it may be more intelligent about scheduling
09:36<SupaZubon>which could have emergent effects
09:41|-|DrPete_ [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
09:41<DrPete_>Got kicked off :(
09:41<DrPete_>I am back, what was I saying
09:47<DrPete_>Anyone there?
09:49<DrPete_>So linode is good then?
09:49<SupaZubon>What do you have in mind?
09:50<DrPete_>Well, just a server for postfix,.apache, dns, etc. On debain
09:50<DrPete_>clamav, spamassain etc
09:51<@mikegrb>spamassasin is the killer
09:51<DrPete_>Thou 96mb does not sound alot
09:51<@mikegrb>it eats ram like nothing else
09:51<DrPete_>Yeah, I thought it would be.
09:51<@mikegrb>but! you can limit it to processing one email at a time and that will help a lot
09:51<SupaZubon>You'll want to limit it to a single spamd and configure postfix not to deliver if your load is above a certain threshold
09:51<DrPete_>So how does it work woth the ram, I am new to VPS's
09:52<SupaZubon>Well, it depends on which linode plan you want
09:52<DrPete_>I was thinking of 96
09:52<SupaZubon>so that's got 96M
09:52<DrPete_>Yeh, the biggest one free
09:53<tronip>yeah (spamassassin). i set it to run only one child at a time
09:53<tronip>(i don't get much mail -- personal Linode use)
09:53<DrPete_>I am not talking many mails at all
09:53<DrPete_>same here
09:53[~]SupaZubon nods
09:53<DrPete_>most crap will be blocked with rbl
09:53<tronip>supazubon: oh, sorry. i see you already said that. ;) (still reading scrollback from past 24h)
09:54<SupaZubon>tronip: nah, it's good to have affirmation
09:54<tronip>between procmail, SA, RBL use, my spam left in inbox is almost 0
09:54<DrPete_>Yeah me too
09:54<SupaZubon>DrPete: then you ought not have many problems there. you can configure postfix to conserve system resources through various techniques
09:54<tronip>linode's been good. only wish I had a little more cpu at times, but it's been usable
09:55<SupaZubon>tronip: that's something where Xen will help out
09:55<gpd>Dreamer3: (from hours ago) firehol seems to work for me, you may have to give it your kernel config from /proc/config.gz, otherwise it was a breeze to setup
09:55<tronip>can't wait. (xen)
09:55<DrPete_>Its a pain, i have a server here, but I moved and now I am on AOL, the block port 25, its a nightmare, so I want to move my mail/dns offsite
09:55<SupaZubon>DrPete: sounds like a problem custom made for a linode almost
09:56<DrPete_>Yeah, used to have dedi servers, but I am cutting costs, I dont want to go too high, or I may as well use one
09:56|-|DrPete [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Lost terminal]
09:56<DrPete_>So when my processes hit 96meg does it just swap? Is it like having 96 phyical ram?
09:57<tronip>i run mail (postfix+SA, no imap/pop3 -- shell use only), apache, iptables, dns (djbdns -- *very* small footprint and fast), and some other stuff on a 128
09:57<tronip>and still have about 60mb to spare
09:57<tronip>i could live on a 64 or 96 but I prefer to have excess RAM to deal with once-a-week compiles
09:57<tronip>(cause I run Gentoo)
09:57<tronip>if i didn't use Gentoo, but used a binary distribution like Debian, i'd be on a 64 or 96
09:58<@mikegrb>ha ha djbdns
09:58[~]mikegrb only uses free software on his linode
09:58<SupaZubon>ha ha indeed
09:58<tronip>i run a bind setup with ~20-25k zones at work but djb at home
09:58<DrPete_>Yeah, I will def be using deb
09:59<DrPete_>I like bind myself
09:59<DrPete_>Can I migrate to higher ram when I like?
09:59|-|ElectricElf [] Spierdolil z irca [Remote host closed the connection]
10:00<tronip>drpete: sure, just matter of submitting a support ticket (single click, type in request)
10:00|-|ElectricElf [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
10:00<tronip>and wait for someone to get a moment to migrate you
10:00<DrPete_>nice, so whats the disadvanged of a vps? is there one?
10:00<tronip>well, you don't physically own the hardware so you've got
10:00<Dreamer3>man firehol is slow
10:00<tronip>to make sure you have backups to offsite
10:01<tronip>in case provider goes under. not likely with Linode, but that's
10:01<tronip>a generic VPS disadvantage but easy workaround
10:01<tronip>Linode provides pretty generous bandwidth limits so i do nightly
10:01<tronip>backups of my system+mail files
10:01<tronip>tar, rsync+ssh, etc
10:01<tronip>and copy that stuff to my home PC
10:01<SupaZubon>I like rdiff-backyup
10:02<SupaZubon>it's an rsync/ssh sort of solution, and it does reverse incrementals, which is nice
10:02<tronip>ahh nice
10:02<DrPete_>Yeah, I would do the same
10:02<tronip>hmm. i should look into that one
10:03<SupaZubon>reverse incrementals > *
10:03<DrPete_>I would go higher, than the 96, but I know I can get a dedicataed server for $65, so its hard
10:03<gpd>Dreamer3: slow to do what? start / stop?
10:04<SupaZubon>DrPete_: where?
10:05<DrPete_>I used to use them, there nice
10:05<SupaZubon>what do you get for $65?
10:05<DrPete_>So i dont want to go that high, I just want a more cost affective solution
10:05<DrPete_>I got AMD 2400
10:05<DrPete_>512 ram
10:05<DrPete_>80 gig hd
10:06<npmr>url please
10:06<DrPete_>8 ips
10:06<DrPete_>and 1000gig transfer a month
10:07<DrPete_>It was just a bit of overkill for what I wanted
10:08<linbot>New news from forums: Quota Workaround? in General Discussion <>
10:09<gpd>I don't understand why cable companies don't offer datacenter quality broadband to attack the dedicated server market...
10:10<DrPete_>its a pain here in the UK
10:10<DrPete_>we are adsl, so upload is tyically only 256k
10:10<DrPete_>you have have symetric but its insanly prices
10:11<npmr>gpd, because the dedicated server market is much much smaller than the "i want to entarweb" market
10:11<gpd>eventually we will alll have fiber to our homes i imagine...
10:12<kobs>costs aton of money
10:12<DrPete_>I have to head off home, I will pick this up when I get back, see you guys laters, I have more questions
10:13<npmr>i predict that over the next thirty years, network tv will move away from radio broadcast to the point were it is no longer economically viable in the fact of modern content delivery
10:13<npmr>this will free up the uhf and vhf frequency spectrum
10:14<npmr>someone will buy it up, and offer high speed wireless internet
10:14<DrPete_>but then we will prob have a direct interface to our optical neve by then
10:14<DrPete_>Yeah, that would be nice
10:14<DrPete_>laters guys
10:14<gpd>they shut off that free wireless in (insert city name) last week
10:14<npmr>and by high-speed i mean probably gigabits
10:14|-|DrPete_ [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: leaving]
10:14[~]kobs lives only about 30-40min from orlando
10:15[~]mikegrb lives about 8 hrs from orlando
10:15<gpd>talking of optic nerves... how about borgesque voice irc for the common man?
10:15<kobs>This city was supposed to start deploying wifi back in like 2002..but they havent started yet...
10:16<npmr>municipal wifi would be nice, but it's too communist for most americans to accept, and will therefore never happen here
10:16<kobs>heh, just like MCO, I doubt it'd work out here.. most of the people probably dont take laptops out to the beach :p
10:16<gpd>npmr: not if people become so attached that they ca't live without it... for devices etc
10:17<@mikegrb>kobs: I do!
10:17<npmr>gpd, people would pay for that, therefore there's a market, therefore private enterprise will exploit it
10:17<kobs>you are a geek
10:17<@mikegrb>but I have to have it handy incase gpd breaks something
10:18<@mikegrb>kobs: nah, just on call
10:18<kobs>anyone have treo650?
10:18<kobs>or sidekick
10:18[~]gpd goes off to break something (very small and difficult to fix)
10:19<gpd>so you don't like my idea of collective communication
10:20<npmr>i do like it, it's just not politically viable under a ruthless capitalist system
10:21<@mikegrb>kobs: I do
10:21<kobs>Is the SSH client decent?
10:21<@mikegrb>kobs: the 650 that is
10:21<gpd>no, not the municipal wifi, the voice irc... on all the time... messaging system o' destiny
10:21<@mikegrb>I wish they had more then two fonts to pick from
10:22<npmr>sounds like crazytalk
10:22<@mikegrb>the small one gets lots of characters on the screen but is just a bit hard to read, the large one is very easy to read and could stand to be a bit smaller
10:23<gpd>npmr: or 'you must be crazy'?
10:23<npmr>gpd, you
10:25[~]npmr wonder if any of the NoCat doodads will do RADIUS auth
10:25|-|jekil [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
10:33[~]npmr remembers the days of dialing into the modem pool and authenticating with a user id
10:34<npmr>i think this model would work with wifi if only someone would form the confederation of networks
10:34[~]kobs remembers the days of dialing into AOL.
10:34<kobs>less than a year ago :D
10:34<npmr>i wouldn't talk about that publicly
10:34<@mikegrb>npmr: the confederations exist but are commercial
10:35<@mikegrb>problem is there are four or five
10:35<npmr>mikegrb, they aren't confederations
10:35<@mikegrb>and most hot spots are equally likely to be any of the four or five
10:35<kobs>it was hard.. my mother thinks that The Internet = it took me a long time to explain to her that wasn't true
10:35<npmr>mikegrb, they are totally independent vertical schemes
10:35<@mikegrb>no no, reciprical privlidges
10:36<Dreamer3>firehol doesn't seem to want to let dns work on my second IP
10:36<npmr>mikegrb, really...
10:37<@mikegrb>but the problem is which scheme to go with
10:37<@mikegrb>for example sbc wireless has three tiers, the cheapest gives you privlidges only on their network
10:38<@mikegrb>the next to you get privlidges through two different roaming partners
10:38<npmr>see i was thinking more along the lines of...
10:38<@mikegrb>but neither are extremely ubiquitous
10:38<npmr>you add a wifi node to the network.... you get free access to it
10:38<@mikegrb>so none are really well suited to random travel
10:39<npmr>resource sharing
10:39<@mikegrb>if you frequent the same spots it's all good
10:39<Dreamer3>can the firewall not match eth0:1?
10:39<@mikegrb>yeah, that would be perfect
10:39<npmr>mikegrb, that is exactly how the merit network ran modem pools across the state of michigan
10:40<npmr>dial into any merit network dialup (paid for and operated by a merit member institution) and authenticate against *your* institution's RADIUS server
10:40<npmr>it was pretty neat
10:40<tronip>we do that at work with customers using various providers' dialup pools btw
10:41<tronip>the gear sends user/pass as radius auth to a central provider
10:41<tronip>whom then forwards it to our radius servers if it matches our realm name
10:41<tronip>works well.
10:41<npmr>there are wifi captive portals out there that support radius
10:42<tronip>radius accounting also fits well in tracking and chargeback (e.g. at provider level)
10:42<tronip>though i'll never forget the time UUnet sent us a bill for one 30 day period
10:42<tronip>for 120 days of use. ;)
10:42<tronip>for that month.
10:43<tronip>it took a while to convince them that a month did indeed have
10:43<tronip>only 30 days... they didn't believe us at first.
10:43<tronip>interesting teleconferences. ;)
10:43<npmr>4 user connected for 30 days each
10:43<npmr>120 days of usage in a 30 day period
10:43<tronip>no, this was a grand total
10:43<linbot>... but this is your brain, *@(&#$*@^#*&^@*#&*$ this is your brain on drugs, tronip ...
10:43<tronip>not per-user
10:44<Dreamer3>guess not
10:44<Dreamer3>too bad
10:44<Dreamer3>that would have made the ruleset simpler :)
10:49|-|tizen [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
10:52<gpd>npmr: have you seen the drupal cms? It offers a similar concept of authentication. You can login to another drupal site by authenticating against your own. Little bit too much trust involved there though.
11:05|-|spr [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
11:09<npmr>if it were some kind of challenge/response with the plaintext never leaving the client, then that would be much better in that regard
11:09<npmr>but that would also require more software on the client
11:12<@mikegrb>yeah my bank is about to do this new auth system
11:13<@mikegrb>you auth with username, then it asks one of three or four questions that you specify
11:13<@mikegrb>since you write the questions, they are unique against everybody, so if you don't get one of your questions, it isn't the real bank's site
11:14<@mikegrb>then you auth with your password, and they show a "unique custom image" not sure how that will work, like if you select from availible images or you upload your own
11:14<@mikegrb>interesting idea to combat phising stuffs
11:14<npmr>it still requires the user to know what to look for
11:15<npmr>but there will always be a divide between smart users and dumb users
11:17<SupaZubon>* * * * * cd ~/bot && screen -list | grep -q AikoDesho || screen -m -d -S AikoDesho /usr/bin/supybot Aiko.conf
11:17<SupaZubon> <-- mikegrb
11:18<Dreamer3>ok, io_status plugin for munin
11:18<JasonF>yeah, THAT'S a bug, I'd say
11:19<@mikegrb>SupaZubon: crazy
11:22<tizen>... i wonder if thats how they got into paris's email ...
11:22[~]tizen giggles
11:24<gpd> <-- disgruntled member sabotages repository
11:24<Dreamer3>ok anyone know how to get munin working with io_status?
11:25<gpd>Dreamer3: do you have the code from the forum post?
11:25<Dreamer3>gpd: ok, there is a post on the forums... i'll go check
11:25<gpd> repository
11:27<@mikegrb>tizen: they used the password reset tool
11:29<Dreamer3>gpd: thanks :)
11:29<Dreamer3>gpd: i think i like munin :)
11:30<gpd>Dreamer3: what do you use for web analysis - awstats?
11:30<linbot>Gimme fuel Gimme fire Gimme that which I desire
11:32<Dreamer3>gpd: yes
11:32<Dreamer3>gpd: ok, i added the files user plugins and made them executable... are graphs just supposde to magically show up now?
11:38<@mikegrb>after you restart munin-node
11:39<Dreamer3>mikegrb: ok... i did that :) i'll see if it kicks in :)
11:40<Dreamer3>i guess this might not be so bad once you learn the cryptic syntax to build graphs :)
11:40<Dreamer3>i use like no I/O :)
11:41<tizen>my either
11:42<tizen>tiz@orion:~$ cat /proc/io_status
11:42<tizen>io_count=757948 io_rate=8 io_tokens=400000 token_refill=512 token_max=400000
11:42<tizen>thats in 5 days
11:42[~]caker applauds
11:42<tizen>hehe, correctly setup linodes should get a discount
11:43<@caker>tizen: or a penalty for thrashers :)
11:43<tizen>... sure.
11:43<@caker>!weather 37211
11:44<linbot>caker: The current temperature in Nashville, Tennessee (37211) is 88\xB0F (10:53 AM CDT on June 24, 2005). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 63\xB0F. Pressure: 30.13 in (1020 hPa). Visibility: 6.0 miles (9.7 kilometers). UV: 9 out of 16
11:44<tizen>!weather halifax, canada
11:44<linbot>tizen: The current temperature in Halifax, Nova Scotia is 75\xB0F (1:00 PM ADT on June 24, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 52\xB0F. Pressure: 30.02 in (1016 hPa). Visibility: 20.0 miles (32.2 kilometers). UV: 7 out of 16
11:44<tizen>nicest day in weeks, and i'm studying :(
11:48<tronip>!weather barrow, alaska
11:48<linbot>tronip: The current temperature in Barrow, Alaska (99723) is 34\xB0F (7:53 AM AKDT on June 24, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 27\xB0F. Pressure: 30.19 in (1022 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 1 out of 16
11:48<tronip>now THAT's my idea of a great weather place. ;)
11:48<tronip>(visited barrow once in the winter... it's northermost U.S. town)
11:49<@mikegrb>!weather kpns
11:49<linbot>mikegrb: The current temperature in Pensacola Regional, Florida (32524) is 88\xB0F (10:53 AM CDT on June 24, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 70\xB0F. Wind: ENE at 7 mph (11 km/h). Pressure: 30.04 in (1017 hPa). Visibility: 7.0 miles (11.3 kilometers). UV: 10 out of 16
11:49<kvandivo>tronip: when did you go and how long did you stay?
11:49<tronip>went late Jan 2003. stayed only one day+night because i was short on time
11:50<tronip>but probably going back for a longer stay next jan
11:50<tronip>(have a friend in town)
11:50<kvandivo>i think it would be fun to go and spend a solid 12 months there
11:50<tronip>great place in the winter. quiet, can chat with folks
11:50<kvandivo>it would be one of those 'life experiences'
11:50<tronip>without dealing with stress of jam-packed tourist traffic
11:50<tronip>see colorful hand-made coats worn by elders when they're walking etc
11:50<tronip>oh it was memorable. really cool place. :)
11:50<kvandivo>no pun intended?
11:51<tronip>i'll never forget going from +70 deg F restaurant to -25 outside
11:51<tronip>seats in truck frozen, like sitting on a very cold slab of granite ;)
11:51<tronip>full blast heater only got it down to -10 inside, which was an improvement
11:52<tronip>only 3 hours of sunlight that day, but lots of aurora borealis dancin' outside -- coolest light show (and for free) ;)
11:52<kvandivo>no doubt
11:52<kvandivo>as i note that it is going to be 96 degrees outside today, i'm thinking that would be a drastic delta
11:52<tronip>weird to see kids in school at 9am with pitch-black night outside
11:53<tronip>linbot was reporting 34 deg at barrow today. that's pretty much
11:53<linbot>Bugger all, I dunno, tronip.
11:53<tronip>the hottest it will get all year ;)
11:53<kvandivo>above 90 for the next 7 days solid
11:54<kvandivo>having said that.. it's better than death valley..
11:54<tronip>i'll vote for the air conditioning unit as one of the greatest inventions since the wheel ;)
11:54<tronip>(and the lever)
11:54<SupaZubon>tronip: alas, it just heats the whole outdoors
11:54<gpd>Dreamer3: I deleted nfsd and nfs_client from plugins, restarted munin-node, hard reload html but still nfs graphs?
11:54<tronip>supazubon: point ;)
11:54<SupaZubon>heat pumps are not the solution, unfortunately
11:55<kvandivo>well, if you are going to be all macroscopic about it supa, you need to turn the sun off
11:55<Dreamer3>gpd: that should make them go away on the next cycle... i just created an inactive folder under munin and moved stuff there :)
11:55<SupaZubon>well, you need to reverse the Paving Of America
11:56<SupaZubon>that's part of why this country is so damn hot nowadays
11:56<kvandivo>i blame the sun
11:56<SupaZubon>we need to replant trees
11:57<SupaZubon>etc etc
11:57<SupaZubon>rooftop gardens
12:00<npmr> <-- kvandivo
12:00<npmr> <-- also: tronip
12:00<SupaZubon>don't forget the ever-popular "albedo"
12:00<gpd>Dreamer3: these MySQL graphs are generated from mysqladmin, not from the logs then... as I don't have logs for mysql...
12:02<gpd>Dreamer3: also not sure there is any point in backing up the plugins in /etc as they are all in /usr/share/munin/plugins anyway
12:09<@mikegrb>there was a story on npr about heat islands and the paving of amerika yesterday
12:09<gpd>mikegrb: they allow npr in florida?
12:10<@mikegrb>not for long
12:11<psykoyiko> < > npr
12:11<gpd>Isn't NPR now run by a Conservative
12:11<psykoyiko> <-- democracy now > npr
12:12<psykoyiko>that's cpb
12:13<npmr>everything is run by a conservative right before it disappears completely
12:14<psykoyiko>this guy at cpb hired a consultant to monitor bill moyer's content
12:15<psykoyiko>bill moyers's, rather
12:16<psykoyiko>ok, enough non-relevant statements.
12:16<gpd>no, one more... pleeeeaaase.
12:17[~]psykoyiko beats gpd
12:17<gpd>!insult gpd
12:17<linbot>gpd - You are nothing but a yeasty mound of squishy dog.
12:17|-|Dreamer3 [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Lost terminal]
12:17<gpd>here's one: can you jump forward and backwords by words in a console
12:19<SupaZubon>EMACS keybindings, yo
12:19<SupaZubon>M-F and M-B
12:19[~]gpd curses his OSX meta-free xterm
12:20<gpd>take it back... it works!
12:20<gpd>SupaZubon: you are a hero!
12:21<gpd>although it doesn't seem to work in this screen window... ho hum... produces &
12:22<gpd>not screen... irssi problem it seems
12:22<SupaZubon>Yeah, irssi has some broken keybindings
12:25<tronip>gpd: see if 0.8.10 beta works any better. I'm using that only
12:25<tronip>because it's got UTF-8 support
12:25<tronip>(can see one of my co-workers type in Cyrillic/Russian ;) )
12:27<gpd>hmm... even unstable only has 0.8.9-3 of irssi-text
12:29<gpd>how many of the other 2e12 emacs keystrokes are useful in the console?
12:30<tronip>got me there. ;) i only use vi key bindings in shells
12:30<tronip>(e.g. 'set -o vi' in bash/ksh)
12:31<tronip>unless you're referring to irssi. if so, not familiar with its line editing capabilities
12:31<tronip>(recent convert)
12:31<gpd>I use vim for everything... didn't know you could set -o vi
12:31<gpd>how does that work out?
12:31<SupaZubon>gpd: it can get a little confusing
12:31<tronip>pretty good. can edit history with movement keys to go through stuff
12:32<tronip>then edit a chosen command line, hit enter
12:32<tronip>it's not too bad.
12:32<tronip>just need set -o vi done once interactively (or stick in a .profile file)
12:33<tronip>then after that, esc then 'j' or 'k' to go through command history
12:33<gpd>feeels weird... might get used to it...
12:33|-|Ycros [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:33<tronip>then usual on-a-line movement keys ('e', 'b', etc) and editing keys ('x', 'cw', etc)
12:33<tronip>the alternative (nothing) sucked worse on the AIX systems without bash/tcsh. ;)
12:33<tronip>that's how I got used to it
12:34<gpd>tronip: can you do s/// ? ;-)
12:34<tronip>hmm. not sure it can do that -- never thought to try that one ;)
12:34<SupaZubon>um, all shells can do that
12:34<SupaZubon>it's called ^foo^bar
12:34<SupaZubon>at least in bourne
12:35<tronip>csh/tcsh too, but don't think ksh can
12:35<kvandivo>s///g can't be simulated with ^^, though
12:35<SupaZubon>there was no g
12:35<SupaZubon>in his request
12:35<kvandivo>(which has annoyed me more than once)
12:36<gpd>getting too used to vi keys is dangerous.. hitting escape isn't always wise!
12:36<gpd>found myself doing that when filling forms in firefox etc
12:37<tronip>HAHA can see how that'd work out.
12:37<tronip>at least i use lynx config'd with vi keys ;)
12:37<kvandivo>there's probably a firefox extension for that
12:37<SupaZubon>try !!:s/foo/bar/g
12:37<SupaZubon>that may work in bash
12:38<SupaZubon>gpd: I finally got gnome to default everything to EMACS keybindings, so that when I hit ^W to kill-word, I don't close my damn tab
12:38|-|claviola [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
12:38<SupaZubon>Hi asl.
12:38<gpd>SupaZubon: nice
12:39<SupaZubon>damn, no
12:39<SupaZubon>doesn't work
12:39<gpd>can you set -o vim for extra funk?
12:40<SupaZubon>[nick@beaujolais(/tmp)] echo foo foo foo
12:40<SupaZubon>foo foo foo
12:40<SupaZubon>[nick@beaujolais(/tmp)] !!:gs/foo/bar/
12:40<SupaZubon>echo bar bar bar
12:40<SupaZubon>bar bar bar
12:40|-|spr [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Leaving]
12:41<tronip>gpd: alas, no. always wanted that. ;)
12:41<gpd>what is !! when it is at home?
12:41<tronip>don't understand? !! = expand to last command
12:41|-|Ycros [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
12:41<tronip>so :gs would be a global search-and-replace
12:42<tronip>applied to that pattern
12:42<tronip>err, applied to that input data.
12:43<gpd>and this is all documented where?
12:43<kvandivo>right here
12:44<tronip>bash man page does say '!! Refer to the previous command.'
12:44<gpd>tronip: yeah, was just browsing it
12:45<tronip>not sure about the :gs part but i'm sure it's there somewhere
12:45<SupaZubon>in the Modifiers section of the man page
12:45<tronip>ahh yes. thanks :)
12:46<tizen>i love the fact gpd reads man pages
12:46<tizen>and for that reason, if he ever asks a question i can answer, and see it, i'll answer.
12:48<gpd>tizen: sometimes you just need to know where to start reading... ;-)
12:48<SupaZubon>gpd: man bash, then /\!\!
12:48<SupaZubon>hooray for /
12:48<gpd>*pointers to tricks and tips is my quest... I'm happy to brain dump anything I know - but you all seem to know 10000x more :-(
12:48<tizen>i know, i just like the fact you just don't sit here and ask question after question without learning anything
12:52|-|danc3 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
12:52<danc3>mikegrb: you here?
12:55|-|thoth39 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
13:07|-|Dreamer3 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
13:07<Dreamer3>if i want to do pop or imap over ssl, do i just need SSLtunnel?
13:08<tronip>that's the quick way if your pop/imap doesn't do ssl natively
13:08|-|FesterCouples [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
13:08<gpd>Dreamer3: have you tried courier-imap-ssl?
13:08<tronip>courier supports ssl for imap and pop3; i imagine the other major imap/pop3 sw do
13:08<tronip>but not sure.
13:09<Dreamer3>gpd: i see courier-imap-ssl and courier-pop-ssl, suppose those are prolly what i want :-)
13:09<gpd>Dreamer3: works for me
13:09<Dreamer3>gpd: do you user webmail?
13:09<gpd>Dreamer3: yes, but not worked out how to use ssl with webmail yet.
13:10<Dreamer3>gpd: well, if it's on the same host ou wouldn't want to :)
13:10<Dreamer3>gpd: i mean you wouldn't want to connet to IMAP thru SSL... you might want SSL on the web portion
13:12<Dreamer3>gpd: how is your e-mail setup?
13:13<tronip>fwiw, i've tested imap, imap+ssl, pop3, pop3+ssl, with a variety of email clients and courier as the server. works great and 'out of the box'
13:14<tizen>i use the courier's too
13:14<tizen>not ssl though
13:14<tizen>if someone wants to read my spam
13:14<tizen>all the power to them
13:15<gpd>I use courier-imap-ssl with postfix and SASL for smtp
13:15<gpd>ilohamail for web but contemplating squirrelmail
13:15<tronip>squirrelmail looks pretty good (tested too)
13:16<tizen>i use squirrel
13:16<tizen>but i'm gonna drop it
13:16<tizen>noone really using it
13:16<tronip>oh? how come? ahh.
13:16|-|danc3 [] Spierdolil z kanalu #linode [Gone to do something useful!]
13:16<tronip>ha, can't say I use it. mutt on my Linode for me. ;)
13:16<Dreamer3>anyone using SA?
13:16<tronip>spamassassin? yup, I do
13:16<Dreamer3>tronip: with postfix?
13:17<Dreamer3>tronip: with or without postfix doing deliveries?
13:17<SupaZubon>I'm curious about the before-filter use of sa
13:17<SupaZubon>in postfix
13:18<SupaZubon>so as to simulate sa-exim
13:18<Dreamer3>SupaZubon: that's how i'm looking at it, but i wonder if that will affect forwarded mail to...
13:18<Dreamer3>SupaZubon: i don't want to waste cpu cyles on forwarded mail
13:18<SupaZubon>I don't know what you mean by forwarded
13:18<SupaZubon>but I'd like to cut it off on local->local mail
13:19<SupaZubon>and a few other categories
13:19<SupaZubon>the way sa-exim does
13:19<SupaZubon>also, greylisting is fine fine fine
13:19<SupaZubon>I do so enjoy
13:20<Dreamer3>SupaZubon: yeah, i'm betting grey-listing is going to help a lot
13:20<Dreamer3>SupaZubon: i can't wait to declare my mail server ready
13:20<tronip>supazubon: mail -> postfix -> spamc (via rule for spamfilter) -> my inbox
13:20<SupaZubon>tronip: and do you do SMTP-time rejection and temp-reject greylisting?
13:21[~]tronip thinks (it's been a while)
13:21<SupaZubon>tronip: do you do it in the before-filter?
13:21<SupaZubon>thought not
13:21<tronip>i don't think i have a customized SA setup
13:21<tronip>pretty much stock
13:22<SupaZubon>yeah, see, I use sa-exim
13:22<SupaZubon>it is grand
13:22<tronip>ahh. hmm.
13:22<SupaZubon>it does SMTP-time rejects on high-high value spams
13:23<SupaZubon>and temporary greylist rejects on mid-value
13:23<tronip>ahh nice.
13:23<SupaZubon>leaves the low-value spam to you
13:23<SupaZubon>but marks 'em for easy filter
13:23<Dreamer3>anyone do virus checking?
13:23<tizen>i did
13:23<kvandivo>i just take my chances
13:24<tizen>but it used a buncha processing
13:24<tizen>i have antivirus on all the desktop
13:24<tizen>no need i feel to waste linode ressources
13:24<SupaZubon>ha ha virus
13:24<tronip>i don't do virus checking since it's just me on my Linode shell :) but if i had windows users, i'd
13:24<tronip>probably use clamav or something
13:24<SupaZubon>only useful if you're still using that DOS thing
13:25<Dreamer3>i think if i get SA working i'm ready to start funneling mail thru here
13:25<tronip>mainly i try not to do virus checking on Linode if not required since it's a bit of cpu+mem hit
13:26<tronip>clamav seemed ok.. there was something else, forgot what.
13:27<tronip>I don't like amavisd because another team at work uses it for all corp mail
13:27<tronip>and it backs up badly when queue is large
13:27<tronip>leading to 8-12 hour backlogs
13:27<tronip>maybe it's a poor config issue there; not sure.
13:27[~]caker discovers that Muse is a pretty damn good group
13:28|-|k0x [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
13:28<gpd>caker: Absolution is tops
13:28[~]tizen discovers that the #linode channel is probably one of the best tech support chans on IRC
13:28<Dreamer3>anyone use SA with razor?
13:28<tizen>noone has said STFU RTFM today
13:28|-|thoth39 [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Leaving]
13:28<@caker>gpd: awesome -- giving Showbiz a listen now .. got all three(?) albums via Amazon
13:29[~]tronip is permanently wedded to The Blue Man Group ;) (then again, I can only hear in the frequencies they make, so I'm a little biased ;) )
13:29<Dreamer3>i guess just installed postfix and SA on debian doesn't connection the two
13:30<tronip>dreamer3: I do, though i have a stock setup of SA + razor + pyzor
13:30<tronip>on Gentoo.
13:30<tronip>main thing was to make sure prereqs were met before setting up SA itself due to probing for avail modules
13:30<tizen>tronip: ??? your blue man group comment
13:30<gpd>caker: if you can 'find it', try soulwax remix of muscle museum
13:31<@caker>gpd: nod
13:31<tronip>tizen: my hearing starts around 110 dB (decibels); chart ends at 109 according to audiologist
13:31<tronip>BMG's music tend to be very heavy on bass like stuff
13:31<tronip>low frequency sounds that I can feel/hear well
13:31<Dreamer3>tronip: how did you setup your SA?
13:32<tronip>(and imo, BMG's music has more to it than a typical group use of bass)
13:32<tizen>you must hate mp3s
13:32<tizen>don't they remove the sounds at higher/lower freqs?
13:32<tronip>tizen: hahaha nah i got a BMG's stuff piped through harman kardon speakers ;)
13:32<tronip>that thing will wake the dead :)
13:32<tronip>can feel it two floors up
13:32<linbot>tizen: btw, STFU, RTFM
13:33<tizen>... owned
13:33[~]tizen decides its time to get to campus and cram for final
13:33<tizen>thanks linbot, you probably just helped my gpa
13:33<tronip>dreamer3: hmm... i don't recall much of details only that i used a howto for gentoo
13:33<linbot>tizen: any time...
13:33<tronip>(which I probably found from a Google search for 'gentoo', 'spamassassin', 'howto')
13:34<kvandivo>linbot: sometimes your conversation skills amaze me
13:34<tronip>mmm finals. hasn't terrorized me in a while.
13:34<tronip>(so i've forgotten how fun they can be. heh.)
13:36<tronip>kvandivo: conclusion: linbot has passed the Turing Test ;)
13:36<Dreamer3>tronip: url?
13:36<tronip>lemme see
13:36<kvandivo>i'm sure that npmr can give you a url, dreamer3
13:38|-|_k0x_ [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
13:38<tronip>i probably used something like this:
13:39<tronip>it's gentoo-specific, granted, but mostly covers config file setup
13:39<tronip>so probably adaptable to other distros
13:40<tronip>(I didn't do amavisd stuff mentioned in that doc. just postfix+SA+razor+dcc+something else)
13:40|-|k0x [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:40<tizen>there's a debian url
13:41<tizen>for postfix/courier/spamassassin/clamav
13:41<tizen>thats what i used to base my system
13:42<gpd>me too...
13:43<gpd>then I moved some of the sql to userdb for memory conservation
13:44<gpd>tizen: do you hand edit the sql tables with phpmyadmin or did you link it to a gui?
13:44<tizen>but i might just move them to textfiles
13:45<Dreamer3>tizen: this doesn't talk specifially about how ot make SA work
13:45<Dreamer3>man, what am i missing
13:45<gpd>it is more painful... postmap virtual, postfix reload every time
13:45<tizen>Dreamer3: yeah, it does though AMAViS
13:45<Dreamer3>tizen: hmmmm
13:46<tizen>gpd: yeah, but i haven't edited my tables in... 2 months probably
13:46<Dreamer3>tizen: that seems to be an extra layer of complexity
13:46<tizen>it incorporates anti spam and anti virus
13:46<gpd>Dreamer3: if you want a simple life then use gmail ;-)
13:46[~]gpd hides
13:47<tizen>qmail is gross
13:47<tizen>Dreamer3: on a 64 you'll run into swap, but if you linode has some ram
13:47<Dreamer3>tizen: hmmm, i just want SA right now :)
13:47<tizen>it'll be idea
13:47<Dreamer3>tizen: i have 128
13:47<Dreamer3>tizen: i'm keeping an eye on the RAM :)
13:48<tizen>we should get together, get caker to put a box online with just SA
13:48<tizen>and we don't waste any of our ram
13:50<Dreamer3>tizen: what, send ALL out mail to it?
13:51<tizen>run it through
13:51<@mikegrb>no, just use spamc from your linode
13:51<@mikegrb>with spamd on the master spaminator
13:52[~]Dreamer3 nods.
13:54|-|claviola [] Spierdolil z irca [Read error: No route to host]
13:55<tizen>i think if i ever see spam coming from an IP located within 2 hours drive of me
13:55<tizen>i'm gonna drive out and go postal
13:55<kvandivo>just send them mail.. let the postal worker go postal.. they are experienced
13:57<tizen>i feel i can bring more to the table
13:58<tronip>"you can send all the spam you want." *cuts phone/dsl/cable line*
13:59<tronip>ah yes.. and hand out tinfoil hats to defeat satellite telecom too ;)
13:59<tronip></tongue in cheek>
14:07<SupaZubon> <-- your best chance for SMTP-time SpamAssassin
14:08|-|danc3 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
14:15|-|spr [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
14:20<Dreamer3>this spam stuff is complicated
14:20<SupaZubon>" The content filter is expected to pass on unmodified SMTP commands from a before-filter Postfix SMTP server to an after-filter Postfix SMTP server that usually listens on a non-standard port. "
14:20<SupaZubon>no chance
14:20<SupaZubon>no way to reject based on what the filter found
14:22<Dreamer3>SupaZubon: huh?
14:23<Dreamer3>hmmm, no way to reject?
14:23<SupaZubon>you read it right
14:23<SupaZubon>the filter has to BOUNCE the mail out an outgoing SMTP port
14:23<SupaZubon>thus multiplying spam
14:23<Dreamer3> Reject the mail by sending a suitable SMTP status code back to Postfix. Postfix passes the status back to the remote SMTP client. This way, Postfix does not have to send a bounce message.
14:24<SupaZubon>pfuq dat noize
14:24<SupaZubon>hmmm, wehre?
14:24<Dreamer3>you gotta read
14:24<Dreamer3>this stuff is _not_ simple :)
14:25<Dreamer3>but you'd have to be running a special SA/smtp server combo as the proxy... I don't think another smtp instance sending mail thru SA could "reject" mail
14:25<Dreamer3>"It is for this reason that the before-queue content filter can be used only on low-traffic sites."
14:26<Dreamer3>"Content filtering software can use lots of memory resources. "
14:26<Dreamer3>i think i'm going ot do after-queue filtering and count on grey-listing to save the day
14:26<SupaZubon>hmmm, really?
14:27<Dreamer3>SupaZubon: yes
14:28|-|loser1792109629 Ma teraz nicka OvrLrd-Q
14:29<OvrLrd-Q>just use some sane checking like invalid HELO and stuff like that
14:29<Dreamer3>OvrLrd-Q: that too
14:30<OvrLrd-Q>i use that and sbl-xbl and it works nicely, then i have SA after that
14:31<SupaZubon>OvrLrd-Q: you have SMTP-time spam filtering with postfix?
14:31<OvrLrd-Q>not with SA
14:31<OvrLrd-Q>just some general UCE like I mentioned checking for invalid HELO and a couple RBL checks
14:33[~]Dreamer3 nods.
14:33<Dreamer3>OvrLrd-Q: i really need to find out what RBL is good
14:33<SupaZubon>OvrLrd-Q: so how do you get your filter to do SMTP-time rejects?
14:38|-|spr [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Leaving]
14:51<Dreamer3>ok... i have SA... but now the question is how to make bad mail just go away
14:51<OvrLrd-Q>using postfix?
14:52<Dreamer3>OvrLrd-Q: yes
14:56<OvrLrd-Q>on wait nm
14:58<OvrLrd-Q>what wI was thinking of was a thing in Courier not Postfix
14:58<Dreamer3>so complicated
14:58<Dreamer3>i miss cpanel :)
14:59<Dreamer3>OvrLrd-Q: too bad i don't use maildrop yet
15:00<Dreamer3>i guess to delete i am going to need to stop using postfix deliveries?
15:02<OvrLrd-Q>i forgot how we set it up
15:02<OvrLrd-Q>all i know is it works and i havent had to mess with it since so
15:02|-|ElectricElf [] Spierdolil z irca [Remote host closed the connection]
15:03|-|ElectricElf [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
15:04<OvrLrd-Q>but yea we use maildrop
15:05<OvrLrd-Q>so we can allow each user to choose if they want to use SA or bogofilter or w/e
15:05<Dreamer3>OvrLrd-Q: *nods*
15:05<Dreamer3>OvrLrd-Q: i'm tring to find a good solution that works for all our customers
15:05<SupaZubon>My current exim setup keys off the user's homedir to use maildrop or procmail
15:05<SupaZubon>if they have a .maildrop, it kicks to maildrop
15:05<SupaZubon>if they have a .procmailrc, it goes to procmail
15:05<SupaZubon>otherwise, raw file delivery
15:07<OvrLrd-Q>well theres only 3 users so we're not picky :)
15:08<Dreamer3>oh *laughs*
15:10<Dreamer3>now just to password protect my postfix admin and we should be almost rolling :)
15:10<SupaZubon>password protect your admin?
15:10<Dreamer3>SupaZubon: the web admin
15:10<SupaZubon>linbot: ...
15:16|-|abock [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Leaving]
15:19|-|Dreamer3_ [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
15:20<SupaZubon>Dreamer3_: okay, I give in. What am I supposed to ask you?
15:20<Dreamer3_>SupaZubon: huh?
15:20<SupaZubon>13:19 -!- Dreamer3_ is ask me
15:20<Dreamer3_>i dunno
15:25|-|Dreamer3 [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:28|-|Narada3 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
15:42|-|Narada3 [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Narada3]
15:49|-|abock [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
16:00|-|abock [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Leaving]
16:00|-|abock [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
16:25<gpd>Well I learnt a lot from man bash... anyone know an easy way to dump man pages / html versions to a Palm?
16:26<SupaZubon>gpd: the LDP has some palmdoc versions
16:27<SupaZubon>I have all these Springer-Verlag books written by Niklaus Wirth
16:28<gpd> <-- SupaZubon thanks
16:45<gpd>some of these are the same as when I last looked... eg:
16:46<@caker>gpd: too bad not much info there
16:50|-|spr [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
16:54|-|Narada1 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
16:54<Narada1>Guys I have a crisis and would really appreciate your help.
16:54<@caker>Narada1: yes?
16:55<Narada1>I'm running gentoo and etc-updated by /etc/inittab and now it won't let me login.
16:55<Narada1>It stops at loading /etc/local.
16:55<Narada1>On a physical machine I would boot off a CD and chroot in and change it but how to deal with VM?
16:56<@caker>Narada1: resize your swap partition, deploy Debian, add your gentoo rootfs to the Debian config, boot debian, make fixes
16:56<Narada1>All my stuff is offline and I'm freaking out.
16:56|-|abock [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:56<@caker>although editing inittab shouldn't prevent your machine from booting
16:56<@caker>at least enough to be able to SSH in
16:57<Narada1>It had c1-c6 but didn't have c0.
16:57<@caker>depends on what you edited, I suppose (default runlevel)
16:57<Narada1>No it wasn't me. I was updating the config files.
16:57<@caker>Narada1: are you sure your IP isn
16:57<@caker>isn't accessible?
16:57<Narada1>I updated the old one to the new one.
16:57<@caker>yeah, I get it
16:57<Narada1>Umm well I watched it boot and it never gave the username prompt. Let me check again.
16:57<@caker>that's just console, not ssh and friends
16:58<Narada1>Oh crap.
16:58|-|Ekipa kanalu #linode: Wszystkich: 77 |-| +op [2] |-| +voice [0] |-| normalnych [75]
16:58<Narada1>So maybe it's working after all. I was expecting a login prompt through the screen session. I'm sure I've seen one before.
16:59<@caker>to fix that do this:
16:59<@caker>(via ssh)
16:59<@caker>c0:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 115200 vc/0 linux
16:59<@caker>comment out the rest of the inittab lines
16:59<@caker>then run as root: init q
17:00<@caker>*comment out the rest of the getty lines
17:00<Narada1>Ah right! That would revert back the changes that the new file made :)
17:00<@caker>not the rest of the file :)
17:00<Narada1>Lol yeah gotcha.
17:00<Narada1>caker: You rock. Thanks so much and sorry for the hassle :)
17:01<@caker>Narada1: crisis averted
17:01<gpd>0:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty0 <-- mine differs slightly...
17:01<@caker>Narada1: stay away from accepting changes to inittab and fstab
17:02<gpd>what is that initial c?
17:02<Narada1>I have this as first line: c1:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty1 linux
17:02<@mikegrb>gpd: gentoo uses vc/0
17:02<@caker>gpd: you can name it whatever you want
17:02<@caker>Narada1: comment those out
17:02<Dreamer3_>caker: you doing generic support now? :) i need help setting up my postfix+mysql+courier-imap ;-)
17:02<Narada1>caker: Yeah I'm always wary of these updates and twice as wary now.
17:03<@caker>Dreamer3_: his problem was a little different than configuring your stuff :)
17:03<Dreamer3_>caker: i know, i'm only joking :) it's coming along quite well actually :)
17:03|-|_k0x_ [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: ]
17:03<gpd>agetty /getty / fgetty... memory use not relevant when only 1?
17:03<Narada1>caker: Looks like it's working through screen now :)
17:04<Narada1>Lol Dreamer3_. That's a big job!
17:04<@caker>gpd: honestly, I've never bothered to research the differences between all the *gettys .. some distros provide only one, some provide multiple
17:05<Narada1>Sometimes I wonder how one man can be everywhere and do everything :)
17:05<@caker>Narada1: human cloning
17:05<linbot>laughs out loud
17:05<Narada1>caker: I believe you. It's the only way to make possible
17:06<@mikegrb>I am a clone of caker
17:06<linbot>All together now: lol <-- !
17:06<Narada1>The messages above were actually typed alternately by two separate cakers.
17:06<gpd>"One Man Can Make a Difference"... wwooo wooo...
17:07<Narada1>Heh :)
17:08<Narada1>You guys rock. I'll catch you later. Gotta run.
17:08|-|Narada1 [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Narada1]
17:11[~]OvrLrd-Q is away, auto-away after 60 minutes, (log\off pager\on)
17:14|-|FesterCouples [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: .]
17:14|-|FesterCouples [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
17:24[~]gpd can't even find getty with ps let alone find how much memory it is using... realizes his knowledge is fundamentally lacking... applies for cs masters
17:36|-|Newsome [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
17:40|-|thoth39 [~hm@] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
17:45|-|Marcelo [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
17:45|-|Marcelo [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: ]
17:50|-|Jeremy [] Spierdolil z irca [Remote host closed the connection]
17:57<gpd>Dreamer3_: did you setup firehol to use ULOG?
17:59<gpd>cd /var/run/
18:03<linbot>New news from forums: Problems mailing to AOL in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
18:17<gpd>So my console appears to be broken by all these iptables messages :-(
18:18<@caker>gpd: debian, right?
18:18<@caker>gpd: hit return a few times?
18:18<@caker>gpd: didn't it work yesterday?
18:18<gpd>just since firehol started pumping out logs to the console
18:18<gpd>firehol is now stopped but no joy
18:19<gpd>i can exit screen to lish and kill but doesn't fix
18:19<Dreamer3_>gpd: no
18:19<Dreamer3_>gpd: right now i'm trying to figure out how to forward 8025 -> 25
18:19<gpd>Dreamer3_: do you have junk on your console?
18:20<Dreamer3_>gpd: i don't use the console
18:20<gpd>well you might need it, so best to check!
18:20|-|eco|w [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
18:20<@caker>gpd: find the getty process via ps yet?
18:21<@caker>gpd: 'cause if there is none, you won't get a prompt
18:21<gpd>=> possible cause
18:21<@caker>gpd: does "init q" create one?
18:21<gpd>gpd@www:~$ sudo init q
18:21<gpd>gpd@www:~$ ps aux |grep getty
18:21<gpd>gpd 11509 0.0 0.5 1620 472 pts/2 S+ 19:21 0:00 grep getty
18:22<@caker>gpd: grep tty0 /etc/inittab ?
18:22<gpd>gpd@www:~$ grep tty0 /etc/inittab
18:22<gpd>0:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty0
18:22<@caker>gpd: and /sbin/getty exists?
18:22<@caker>gpd: along with /dev/tty0 ?
18:23<gpd>gpd@www:~$ ls -l /dev/tty0 /sbin/getty
18:23<gpd>crw------- 1 gpd tty 4, 0 Jun 24 01:06 /dev/tty0
18:23<gpd>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14264 Mar 22 09:21 /sbin/getty
18:23<gpd>2.6.12 issue?
18:23<@caker>gpd: what happens if you run "/sbin/getty 38400 tty0"
18:24<gpd>backgrounded... returns still nothing... checking ps now
18:24<gpd>getty now in ps aux
18:25<gpd>exited and killed screen, ssh'd back... still no go
18:25<@caker>odd that tty0 is owned by you, rather than root .. not that it should make a difference
18:25<gpd>reboot is probably simplest option unless you want to test thing
18:25<gpd>oh... i did sudo... probably should have run as root?
18:26<@caker>gpd: why would sudo change file ownership when doing an ls -- is that normal?
18:26|-|jekil [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Ciao]
18:26<gpd>sorry... thought you were talking about something else...
18:26<gpd>I did sudo to start getty ...
18:26<@caker>well, I'm out of ideas
18:27<gpd>weird... i'll reboot... should fix it...
18:27<@caker>there's one new option I enabled in UML regarding console, but I'm not convinced it's causing this problem
18:27<@caker>since it worked earlier
18:27<@caker>yeah, go ahead and reboot
18:27<@caker>let me know if it dies again
18:27<SupaZubon>the tty0 is probably owned by gpd because he was the last person to log in on it.
18:27<@caker>SupaZubon: interesting :)
18:28<SupaZubon>crw-rw---- 1 root root 4, 0 2005-06-19 12:48 /dev/tty0
18:28<SupaZubon>crw--w---- 1 muse tty 4, 1 2005-06-23 22:11 /dev/tty1
18:28<SupaZubon>crw--w---- 1 muse tty 4, 2 2005-06-23 22:11 /dev/tty2
18:28<@caker>What changes the ownership? login?
18:28<@caker>(the binary)?
18:28<SupaZubon>^-- MrsZubon logged into zork's console
18:28|-|gpd_ [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
18:28<SupaZubon>caker: yeah, I think that's part of what /bin/login does
18:28|-|gpd [~gpd@] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: brb]
18:29<@mikegrb>same with ptys
18:29<@mikegrb>which is why you cant su to another user and start screen
18:30<@mikegrb>well you can, you just have to make your tty a+rw, start screen as other user do what you got to do exit and fix0r the permissions
18:30<SupaZubon>you can start a detached one with permission to let you in as yourself :)
18:30<SupaZubon>using the crazy screen multi-user foo
18:30<@mikegrb>but like when I want to attatch to heidi's screen to help her
18:30<@mikegrb>have played with the multi user stuff
18:30<@caker>sounds kinky
18:31<@mikegrb>crazyness it is
18:31[~]mikegrb watches caker get out the leathers
18:32<gpd_>SysRq : Emergency Sync... is it supposed to do that on the way down?
18:32<@caker>gpd_: I fixed that last night, you just hadn't rebooted
18:32<@caker>gpd_: I forgot to patch the UML to poweroff on reboot
18:32<@caker>gpd_: you and JasonF were the only two that had the wrong version
18:32<@caker>(until next reboot)
18:32<SupaZubon>UML uses magic sysRq during shutdown?
18:33<@mikegrb>gpd_: where that comes from... if you issue a shutdown, and it takes too long, the host sends a sysrq emergency sync a few times then kills the kernel
18:33<@caker>SupaZubon: well, my shutdown code does, as a last resort .. syncs a few times, then kills
18:33<SupaZubon>that is great!
18:33[~]SupaZubon hugs caker
18:33|-|JavaWoman Ma teraz nicka JavaWoman_Zzzzzz
18:33<@mikegrb>SupaZubon: innit though
18:33<SupaZubon>actually, there's a mnemonic
18:33<SupaZubon>you kill all processes
18:33<SupaZubon>remount read-only
18:34<SupaZubon>then shutdown
18:34<gpd_>'twas what I suspected... hence confusion as to why it was in trouble ;-)
18:34<@caker>I can't do that stuff
18:34<@caker>...from the outside
18:34<gpd_>up again and now with getty working
18:34<@mikegrb>SupaZubon: that's why people should use linode and not crazy places that only have web forums for their website
18:34<SupaZubon>how do you do the sync?
18:34<@caker>SupaZubon: sysrq
18:34[~]caker looks
18:34|-|gpd_ Ma teraz nicka gpd_tea
18:34<@caker>yeah, I know where you're going with this :)
18:34<SupaZubon>there is a whole set of magic sysrqs
18:35<@caker>SupaZubon: yup .. u <--
18:35<SupaZubon>and there's a generally accepted sequence for the OMFG scenario
18:35<SupaZubon>what you're doing is probably fine
18:35<@caker>hasn't been a problem thus far, but I'll add that
18:35<SupaZubon>but accepted sysadmin voodoo is like USRI
18:35<SupaZubon>or something lik ethat
18:35<SupaZubon>I always do h
18:35<SupaZubon>to get the list
18:39<Dreamer3_>gpd_tea:i don't use the console
18:39<Dreamer3_>gpd_tea: really trying to get this forwarding working though
18:41<linbot>New news from forums: Weird console lines. in General Discussion <>
18:43<@mikegrb>sudo iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 8025 -j REDIRECT --to-port 25
18:43<@mikegrb>Dreamer3_: ^
18:44<Dreamer3_>redirect to 25 inface eth0 proto tcp dport 8025
18:44<Dreamer3_>mikegrb: using firehol :)
18:44<Dreamer3_>mikegrb: i know how to do it with iptables ;-)
18:44<Dreamer3_>mikegrb: but thanks!
18:45<Dreamer3_>mikegrb: finally an smtp server i can get thru thru any firewall :)
18:46<@mikegrb>I just use iptables
18:46<@mikegrb>don't see the point in using these fancy firewall scripts for my needs
18:55<danc3>mikegrb: can you find some time to post that book review you owe our LUG, please?
18:58<danc3>mikegrb: ?
18:58<@mikegrb>danc3: this is not the forum for you personal issues
18:59<danc3>then answer me in the private forum
18:59<danc3>instead of ignoring me
18:59<@mikegrb>I answered you
18:59<danc3>no you didn't
18:59<danc3>it takes 5 minutes if you've got it written
19:00|-|danc3 [] Spierdolil z irca [autokilled: Harrassing self in all non +s channels after warnings. Mail if you feel this is an error]
19:00<@mikegrb>not really
19:01<@mikegrb>his initial msg to me was "why are you an asshole"
19:01<@mikegrb>with no communication before that
19:13|-|mcowger [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
19:14|-|mcowger [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: ]
19:16|-|gpd_tea Ma teraz nicka gpd
19:18<gpd>!acronym cccp
19:18<linbot>gpd: cccp could be transliteration of Cyrillic USSR, equivalent to Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in English, or Cadet Command Center Program (USAF Academy), or Center for Community Partnerships, or Central Committee of the Communist Party, or City College Campus Police, or Compilers Creating Custom Processors (University of Michigan)
19:18<gpd>slightly strange choice of name: cccpxen...
19:19<encode> <-- i get those lines too, after i installed firehol. i havent figured out a way to get rid of them, but they only show up on the console, so it doesnt worry me too much
19:19<encode>i would use plain iptables, except i havent bothered to figure out how to do what i want with them
19:19<encode>and firehol makes like 90 iptables rules
19:20<encode>so i figure its relatively complex
19:20<gpd>encode: I had that too... then my console crashed...
19:20<encode>by console i mean lish
19:20<encode>it doesnt show up when i ssh to my vps directly
19:20<encode>how can your console crash???
19:21<gpd>I added this to my firehol.conf: FIREHOL_LOG_MODE="ULOG"
19:22<gpd>encode: not sure if it crashed but getty went away...
19:22<@mikegrb>gpd: if it wouldn't be a problem could you post a reply to that thread
19:22<@mikegrb>gpd: also, make sure you apt-get install ulogd
19:22<gpd>mikegrb: was about to... but wanted to check if anyone knew better...
19:22<@mikegrb>that sounds right
19:23<gpd>ulogd came in when i put in that ssh-bruteforce script
19:23<encode>anyone know of some free software to create really basic dvd menus?
19:25<gpd>oooh... gravies posts: 1...
19:36|-|abock [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
19:36|-|abock [] Spierdolil z irca [Remote host closed the connection]
19:36|-|abock [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
19:36|-|abock [] Spierdolil z irca [Remote host closed the connection]
19:37|-|abock [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
19:38|-|Jeremy [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
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20:41<linbot>New news from forums: Random things I've discovered recently (Don't laugh) in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
20:51<@mikegrb>gpd: very nice post
20:51<@mikegrb>encode: does dvdauthor do it?
20:51[~]encode checks
20:52<encode>doesnt seem to
20:53<encode>"The idea is to be able to create menus, buttons, chapters, etc, but for now you can just take an mpeg stream (as created by mplex -f 8 from mjpegtools 1.6.0) and write it to DVD"
20:54<@mikegrb>no prob
20:54<@mikegrb>found that site long ago
20:55<@mikegrb>haven't actually used it though
20:55<encode>making a menu seems too complex to worry about for now
20:56|-|Dreamer3_ [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:16|-|phlaegel [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
21:30<linbot>New news from forums: disappearing boot console in General Discussion <>
21:32|-|FesterCouples [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:48|-|FesterCouples [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
22:06|-|Jeremy [] Spierdolil z irca [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:23|-|thoth39 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
22:35|-|JavaWoman_Zzzzzz Ma teraz nicka JavaWoman
22:45|-|Dreamer3 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
22:47<Dreamer3>mikegrb: hey, how does this ssh_whitelist stuff work
22:47<Dreamer3>i'm not sure i understand your chains/rules
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22:59|-|VS_ChanLog [] Spierdolil z kanalu #linode [Rotating Logs]
22:59|-|VS_ChanLog [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
23:00|-|Dreamer3 [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:03|-|Dreamer3 [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
23:07<@mikegrb>if an address matches an entry in the whitelist it skips the rest of the rules
23:11|-|optikal` [optikal@] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
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23:22|-|optikal- [optikal@] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
23:22|-|eco|wk [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
23:22|-|optikal` [optikal@] Spierdolil z irca [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:28|-|phlaegel [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: leaving]
23:29|-|phlaegel [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
23:29|-|eco|w [] Spierdolil z irca [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:31|-|retro [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
23:31|-|phlaegel [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: ]
23:32|-|phlaegel [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
23:39<Dreamer3>mikegrb: you there?
23:43|-|OvrLrd-Q [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: A)bort, R)etry, I)gnore, V)alium?]
23:48|-|retro [] Spierdolil z kanalu #linode []
23:56|-|Dreamer3 [] Spierdolil z irca [Quit: Reconnecting]
23:59|-|hernan43_ [] Wpierdolil sie na kanal #linode
---Logclosed Sat Jun 25 00:00:06 2005