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#linode IRC Logs for 2005-07-11

---Logopened Mon Jul 11 00:00:06 2005
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00:56<@linbot>JasonF: *click*
01:01|-|SupaZubon kicked [#linode] linbot [BANG!]
01:01[~]linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
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01:02<SupaZubon>That's odd..
01:11<JasonF>hah, i own
01:11<JasonF>why is it odd that you got kicked for doing
01:11<@linbot>JasonF: *click*
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01:12<npmr>JasonF, russian roulette
01:13<JasonF>yeah, I know
01:13<JasonF>but SZ said it was weird
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01:13<@linbot>JasonF: *click*
01:14<@linbot>superbeef: *click*
01:17<npmr>i think he may have been referring to something else being weird
01:17<SupaZubon>my autorejoin wasn't working
01:17<SupaZubon>dunno why
01:18[~]JasonF is homophobic
01:18[~]JasonF runs
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02:09<Battousai>hacker! he's taken over the linode server!
02:09<Alucard>any admins online
02:09[~]Battousai runs down the street naked
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02:13<alucardsy>any admins on linode here
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02:30<@linbot>New news from wiki: Help:Contents <> || Main Page <> || Main Page <> || User:Harleypig <> || User talk:Harleypig <> || User talk:Harleypig <>
02:30<@linbot>New news from forums: Upgrading from Fedora Core 2 to Fedora Core 3 in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <> || Returning Customer in Sales Questions and Answers <> || can't ssh into new account in General Discussion <> || Host47 Reboot in System and Network Status <
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02:38<alucardsy>any admins on from the company
02:39<warewolf>no, I think caker and mikegrb are asleep.
02:45<alucardsy>ok thanks
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07:10<munk0r>hi - how can I install your 2.6 kernel on my linode box?
07:12<internat>by opening up the memebers section editing the profile and selecting 2.6 kernel
07:13<munk0r>sweet, thanks :)
07:16<munk0r>are there any known issues with Ubuntu Hoary?
07:16<munk0r>.. on a Linode
07:17<tronip>that's a good question. i've got Hoary at home but don't recall anyone here running it on a Linode.
07:18<tronip>if Hoary is on the distro wizard list then should work ok. otherwise,
07:18<munk0r>Well I'll let you know then :P
07:18<tronip>may need to twiddle /dev and stuff a bit
07:18<munk0r>Nar warty only
07:18<tronip>mainly, watch out for NPTL
07:18<tronip>(disable NPTL)
07:18<tronip>TLS/NPTL, that kind of stuff.
07:19<tronip>hoary should be similar to sarge which I know people are running on their Linodes
07:20<tronip>if warty listed, probably could use aptitude or apt-get upgrade or something to bring up to hoary
07:21<munk0r>The Native POSIX Thread Library, Google tells me
07:22<munk0r>and TLS in the mail sense?
07:22<tronip>thread local storage
07:22<tronip>basically apps break with TLS enabled
07:23<tronip>usual workaround is to mv /lib/tls /lib/tls.disabled
07:23<tronip>I don't recall what issue with NPTL was offhand.
07:23<tronip>(could be me misremembering on NPTL, but for sure, TLS = not to use)
07:23<munk0r>mmk.. so apps which would otherwise use TLS and can't find /lib/tls are happy with that?
07:23<tronip>peachy. :)
07:24<tronip>otherwise, stuff core dumps
07:25<kobs>!acronym cal
07:25<@linbot>kobs: cal could be Caliber, or Café Au Lait spots, or Cakewalk Application Language, or Calando (Music, gradually slower, and with decreasing volume of tone), or Calculus, or Calendar, or Calgary, Alberta, or Calibration, or Calibration Procedures/Instructions (TMINS), or California (old style), or Calorie, or CAN Application Layer (part of CAN protocol), or Center for Applied (1 more message)
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07:53<internat>so.. who is awake here
07:54[~]tronip is just pretending to be awake -- sleepwalking through life ;)
07:54<internat>dont suppose u run a mai lserver?
07:55<tronip>sure do. postfix + spam assassin + razor + dcc + procmail
07:55<tronip>default configs tho
07:55<tronip>nothing fancy on backend -- no db or anything
07:56<internat>ah ok, am trying to find someone to act as a backup mx for me, so i can fuck arround with some settings and try and upgrade everything to my new setup
07:56<tronip>i'd be happy to be backup mx
07:56<internat>yeah? that would be great
07:56<tronip>i do that already for a few others so i know it works
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07:56<tronip>(and tested by hand)
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08:22<ppdorapa2>caker ?
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08:45<@linbot>New news from forums: mod security for apache in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
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09:50<nickfury>howdy peeps
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09:51<nickfury>anyone here to answer a question or two :)
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09:59<nickfury>no ne around eh
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10:01<FireSlash>Were all just instances of eggdrop and supybot.
10:01<FireSlash>Nobody in this channel is human but you.
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10:58<tsi>i've got some really weird log entries that appear to be a spam relay attempt i don't quite understand
10:59<tsi>it looks to be someone crawling "common" usernames at arbitrary domains, hoping them to bounce back to the real target, who's listed as the "from" address on the bogus mail
10:59<SupaZubon>sounds like you ought to set up greylisting
10:59<tsi>which i guess you can't block, since legit postmaster stuff wouldn't get out
10:59<tsi>yeah i've been considering it for a while, but looks like today's the day
11:00<tsi>thank god i'm not on sendmail anymore, i'd hate to have to try greylisting in it
11:00[~]SupaZubon uses postgrey with postfix
11:00<tsi>yeah that's the one i've been reading about
11:00<SupaZubon>it's in apt
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11:04<tsi>is it on cpan? it looks like it's just straight perl
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11:05<tsi>nm cpan not set up on this machine, not about to install 100000 deps
11:20<tsi>man i hate cpan modules that require a working c compiler
11:20<tsi>because i hate having a working c compiler on a production server
11:20<tsi>ESPECIALLY a linode with such limited disk space
11:24<SupaZubon>what, cpan?
11:24<SupaZubon>it's in apt!
11:25<SupaZubon>just apt-get install postgrey
11:32<npmr>cpan just feels like dirty incestuous hedonism to me
11:35<tsi>i refuse to "rpm -i apt" just so i can use your dirty tainted package manager
11:35[~]FireSlash fluffles Debian
11:35<npmr>and yet you'd use apt
11:35[~]tsi hungry troll
11:35<npmr>er, i mean cpan
11:36<tsi>i use cpan to get perl prereqs because i like how it keeps them inside perl's sandbox
11:36<FireSlash>Delete your current distro and install debian. You know you want to.
11:36<npmr>i get the whole shunning-apt-to-stick-with-rpm thing
11:36<npmr>the thing that boggles me is that you're not shunning cpan for the same reason
11:37<npmr>it's a totally different reason, i.e. you hate the compiler requiring mongrels
11:37<tsi>on rpm systems it's just a pain to find the right version of perl stuff
11:37<tsi>with or without yum
11:37<npmr>sounds like a package policy problem
11:38<tsi>i've been doing rpm+cpan for six years i see no reason to change
11:38<tsi>newton's laws are primary motivators in my sysadmin practices
11:38<npmr>i totally get that
11:39<FireSlash>My sysadmin practices are based more on murphy's law.
11:39<npmr>but at some point a threshold will be crossed
11:39<npmr>and your equillibrium point will shift away from red hat
11:39<tsi>i don't know what it would switch TO, though
11:40<tsi>i don't like all the little tweaker kid distributions, and i don't like debian's adherence to Free
11:40<tsi>which leaves me with SuSE or slackware *shudder*
11:40<npmr>why does debian's "adherence to Free" bother you?
11:40<FireSlash>Hey, SuSE is a good distro :)
11:40<FireSlash>And I personally wub debian for servers
11:41<tsi>i don't like my os being a political statement
11:41<FireSlash>Who cares if it works.
11:41<npmr>it's less political statement and more bullet-dodging
11:42<FireSlash>Its not like people are going to care. I don't, and I really never thought of debian like that until you brought it up. And I still don't even see it.
11:42<tsi>of course Fedora is on the exact same track now
11:42<tsi>i miss being able to install pine out of the box
11:42<tsi>dangit parking meter time
11:42<npmr>red hat and suse and whoever can afford to enter into special agreements to distribute software with off-white licenses
11:43<npmr>debian is a 100% volunteer project and has to stay behind the line primarily for liability reasons
11:45<npmr>... pine ... box
11:45<npmr>precisely where that MUA belongs
11:46<npmr>anyway, i like the fact that when i'm using debian, i don't have to worry about legal liability when i install and use debian-distributed software because they have done that for me
11:46<kvandivo>do you spend long hours worrying about that, otherwise?
11:48<npmr>if by 'otherwise' you mean 'at work' then no,
11:48<npmr>we have corporate officers for that
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12:28<tsi>i've clearly broken something important, since it's been an hour and my test message hasn't made it through yet
12:28<npmr>SupaZubon, we likes the postgrey
12:29<SupaZubon>It is teh justice
12:30<SupaZubon>that and adding like REJECT blar blar
12:30<SupaZubon>major helpfuls
12:30<SupaZubon>most of my mail never even reaches spampd
12:30<npmr>to sender_access, yeah?
12:31<SupaZubon>I basically followed the recipes from an issue of Free Software Magazine
12:31<SupaZubon>but that article recommended using the /usr/share/doc/postfix/examples/ or whatever
12:31<SupaZubon>and I found out the hard way tat that program has bad bad locking problems
12:32<npmr>postfix virtual domains are additional justice
12:32<npmr>e.g. works because is *not* a virtual domain
12:33<SupaZubon> <-- check out all that 450 magic
12:33<SupaZubon>yeah, see, all MTAs do virtual domains
12:33<SupaZubon>I just CBA to actually manage them
12:33<SupaZubon>too much damn bookkeeping
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12:33<SupaZubon>I like how the volume of accepteds is a teensy fraction of the 450s
12:33<SupaZubon>that indicates to me that it's definitely doing what it says on the in
12:34<tsi>if you do postgrey through unix sockets do you have to add to
12:35<SupaZubon>yeah, but I do it through TCP
12:35<SupaZubon>that way it doesn't spawn over and over
12:35<SupaZubon>it can multiplex the line
12:35<SupaZubon>handy on a linode
12:35<npmr>does postgrey also having locking issues?
12:35[~]tsi siwitches
12:35<tsi>no it has one proces do the db
12:35<npmr>i need more sleep
12:35<SupaZubon>postgrey was written specifically to address the poor coding practices in
12:35<npmr>i talk like an india
12:35<tsi>i need more sweet tea
12:39[~]npmr looks at munin gubbins
12:40<SupaZubon>npmr: you may also like to look in ~spampd on frotz for some cron'd spamd-sa-learn magic
12:40<@linbot>New news from forums: Sticky: Free MySQL Database in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
12:40<SupaZubon>I now have it so that it runs once an hour, and plays nice with the paltry resources
12:41<SupaZubon>spampd is so much more efficient than the spamd/spamc combos
12:41<SupaZubon>it only loads the spamassassin crap that is actually needed, and keeps the rest low
12:42<SupaZubon>and with the low-cost tests early on, it only gets the stuff that didn't fail HELO/greylisting/whatever stuff
12:42<tsi>when i google for the error i'm getting, i get chat log snippets from this channel
12:42<SupaZubon>much more civilized
12:42<tsi>i <3 recursive troubleshooting
12:42<SupaZubon>tsi: that's a common occurrence nowadays.
12:42<SupaZubon>it used to be the CrackMonkey list came up for almost everything
12:43<@caker>mikegrb: around?
12:43<adamg>sound like a good idea
12:46<tsi>apparently fc2 ships with a minimized berkeleydb that's flaky as hell
12:46<|0__0|>Good thing you're not tainting yourself with functioning distros like Debian
12:47<|0__0|>who knows, you might accidentally eat a vegetable or something and then you would become a dirty stinky vegan hippy!
12:47<cout>debian has its own share of problems, just like every other distro out there.
12:47<tsi>whoops i accidentally ignored |0__0|
12:47<|0__0|>only less so
12:48<cout>I installed debian last night and my system wouldn't even boot. had to boot from the rescue disk and fix it by hand.
12:48<|0__0|>yeah, nobody ever installs debian
12:48<|0__0|>that's its achilles heel
12:48<|0__0|>everyone installed it like six years ago and have been successfully upgrading for that long
12:48<|0__0|>a blesisng
12:48<cout>that and the every-yen-year release cycle
12:48<Battousai>best typo evar
12:48<|0__0|>yep. Fortunately for production servers stable is *STABLE*
12:49<|0__0|>and if you want a proper debianisto desktop that updates every six months, there's ubuntu
12:49<|0__0|>and if you want testing, you know where to find it.
12:50<|0__0|>anyway, for me, Debian and Ubuntu Just Work
12:50<|0__0|>without having any horrible CPAN wrestling or idiotic RPM policy misfires
12:50<Battousai>or compiling
12:50<|0__0|>but hey, at least Red Hat is in the papers a lot, eh?
12:51<cout>used to be
12:51<npmr>red hat is the big dirty bait-and-switch distro that everyone sees advertized
12:52<cout>rpms really aren't that terrible for the end user. it's the process of building rpms that really sucks.
12:53<npmr>and the process of finding compatible rpms
12:53<Battousai>and the process of resolving dependencies
12:53<npmr>and the process of incrementally upgrading to the next distro release
12:53<npmr>and the process of paying for software
12:54<cout>resolving dependencies isn't the job of a package manager. and apt4rpm handles that quite nicely.
12:54<npmr>and the process of <fill in the blank>
12:54<cout>(except when your dependencies are broken, but there's not much apt can do about that)
12:54<npmr>broken dependencies are considered a very serious bug by the debian project
12:55<npmr>they are generally fixed as soon as humanly possible
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12:58<|0__0|>Battousai: you have a counterexample?
12:58<|0__0|>Battousai: even one?
12:59<Battousai>|0__0|: of what?
12:59<Battousai>the broken dependencies are a serious bug for debian?
13:00<Battousai>i dont have a counterexample, but i do have a feeling they get fixed quickly because they're generally the easiest problems to resolve
13:00<|0__0|>many can be subtle and labor-intensive
13:00<Battousai>not because they're show-stopper bugs in the debian ranks
13:00<|0__0|>debian breaks up packages into subpackages occasionally to satisfy peculiar dependency and conflict conditions
13:01<|0__0|>and there are many bookkeeping categories surrounding even a single package, to work around the peculiarities of the interactions among various programs and files
13:01<|0__0|>package dependency policy is a Hard Problem, and Debian has solved it more organizationally than technically
13:02<|0__0|>they had the full ecosystem of package dependencies worked out before deity was even renamed apt
13:02<|0__0|>it wasn't perfect, but it was a lot of work done that the other distros took several years to catch up on
13:03<Battousai>and this is all what has attributed to them being able to fix dependency issues quickly and easily
13:04<|0__0|>again, not necessarily
13:05<|0__0|>some packages need work to be broken up, renamed, conjoined, etc etc etc
13:05<Battousai>ok fine
13:05<|0__0|>there's a lot of bookeeping yet to be done, and the high priority of dependency bugs in the debian BTS means that they get fixed
13:05<Battousai>debian is great, everything else sucks
13:05<|0__0|>Yeah, well, there's that.
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13:10<nickfury>hey .,. anyone hanging around. perhaps caker?
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13:13<Battousai>mikegrb: i know you wanna help him
13:13<@caker>nickfury: what's up?
13:19|-|FireSlash [Liger@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:24<nickfury>hey man
13:25<nickfury>just a quick question
13:25<nickfury>i'm having an issue with sub domains that I'm cratnig for my main domain
13:25<kvandivo>that's your problem
13:25<nickfury>i've added all CNAMES and virtual hosts into my httpd
13:25<nickfury>one of them is working prfectly fine (reading directories and stuff)
13:25<nickfury>but all the other ones i've set up in the conf, seem to always give me Forbidden errors
13:26<@caker>nickfury: error_log ?
13:26<nickfury>i'm just realyl confused what i've misse dhere since all the entries are the same as the working sub domain in the httpd.conf
13:26<@mikegrb>mmm cake
13:26<nickfury>ya i went into it..
13:26<nickfury>but .. confused with the error
13:26<nickfury>let me paste real quick
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13:27<nickfury>[Mon Jul 11 11:05:12 2005] [error] [client] File does not exist: /home/features/games/favicon.ico
13:27<nickfury>[Mon Jul 11 10:49:10 2005] [error] [client] Directory index forbidden by rule: /home/features/games/
13:27<nickfury>there's really the one that is important
13:28<nickfury>i'm just not sure why the "rule" doesn't let this one work, but the other sub domain i have active is working perfectly
13:28<@caker>nickfury: echo hello > /home/features/games/index.html, then reload that page
13:28<@caker>nickfury: you have directory indexes turned off
13:29<nickfury>i see.
13:29<nickfury>but ..
13:29<nickfury>what if i want directory listing active
13:29<nickfury>do i just define that in my httpd
13:29<nickfury>with the mod_dir
13:32<nickfury>i just kinda would like to know how to allow directory indexing for some sub domains i have
13:33<kvandivo>put the directive in the virtualhost that you want
13:34<nickfury>right right
13:34<nickfury>but.. how does that look exactly?
13:34<nickfury>i just don't have a working example
13:34<kvandivo>take the same line that you have outside of the virtual host and put it inside.. same syntax..
13:35<Battousai>Options +Indexes
13:35<Battousai>inside a <Directory> block or .htaccess
13:35<nickfury>for exaple
13:35<@linbot>New news from forums: Professional and Responsive in Customer Testimonials <>
13:36<nickfury>all my sub hosts have a <Directory /> AllowOverride All </directory>
13:36<nickfury>so i'd just add Indexes
13:36<nickfury>on a line inside that block
13:37<tronip>add a line with: Options +Indexes (inside that block)
13:37<tronip>here's an example stanza:
13:37<nickfury> <Directory /home/features/games>
13:37<nickfury> Options + Indexes
13:37<nickfury> AllowOverride All
13:37<nickfury> </Directory>
13:37<tronip>remove space between + and Indexes
13:37<nickfury>that's why i'm getting errors
13:38<nickfury>Invalid command 'Options+Indexes', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not included in the server configuration
13:38<nickfury>...groan :P
13:38<nickfury>let me guess.. my modules are messed now
13:38<nickfury>i don't understand why.. but i guess it didn't come setup with apache when i installed
13:38<tronip>need to look eaxctly like this:
13:38<tronip>Options +Indexes
13:39<nickfury>oh i see
13:39<nickfury>excuse the n00b
13:39<Battousai>we shall not!
13:39<Battousai>ten lashes
13:39<Battousai>and a side of
13:39<tronip>we ran out of wood a while ago... so no plank to walk on. ;)
13:39<Battousai>we do need to get some more planks
13:39<nickfury>thanks for clearing that up guys
13:39<Battousai>especially with sept 19 coming up
13:39<nickfury>won't forget it now
13:40|-|jekil [] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
13:40<kvandivo>is sept 19th dave berry's day?
13:41<kvandivo>right.. dave barry's day
13:42<Battousai>it's not HIS day
13:42<Battousai>it's everyone's day
13:42<kvandivo>he created it
13:42<kvandivo>so i don't feel too incorrect in calling it his day
13:42<psykoyiko>ha ha dave barry
13:44<nickfury>anyoen know off hand the webmin configure tool ?
13:45<@mikegrb>caker: am now
13:45<@mikegrb>went to the lunch with jotun
13:46<@linbot>New news from forums: Forwarding host? in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
13:46<Battousai>you're funny mikegrb, i like you
13:46<Battousai>that's why i'm going to kill you last
13:46<Battousai>or not at all
13:46<Battousai>most likely the latter
13:47[~]Battousai watches too much commando
13:47<psykoyiko>mikegrb: was it a silent lunch?
13:47<@caker>mikegrb: just curious if you ever left for your drive home
13:49<Battousai>what kinda mattress should i get for my futon?
13:49<Battousai>one of those fancy spring-loaded ones?
13:50|-|randyroo [] has joined #linode
13:52<@mikegrb>caker: am in huntsville alabama at jotun's place
13:52<@mikegrb>home is alive but with no power
13:54|-|cout [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:55<Battousai>i feel bad for you mikegrb
13:55<Battousai>if i had to deal with hurricanes, i'd start shooting wildly into the air as the leading moisture moves in
13:56|-|randyroo [] has quit [Quit: ]
13:57<@mikegrb>sounds good
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14:31<rafa4>hi all
14:31<rafa4>i need some help with debian
14:31<rafa4>anyone there can give me a hand?
14:31<SupaZubon>sure thing
14:31<SupaZubon>what's up?
14:31<rafa4>thanks supa
14:32<rafa4>well..its my very first time with debian..not that im very good with redhat anyway, im newbee..but i was advised to switch to debian
14:32<rafa4>so i decided to give it a try
14:32<rafa4>i just installed debian small on my linode
14:32<rafa4>and the first thing i encounter is no ftp client
14:32<rafa4>how am i supposed to download and install packages ??
14:33<SupaZubon>here's the basics
14:33<rafa4>i need to load j2se and tomcat
14:33<SupaZubon>I often tell people "sagi <foo>"
14:33<SupaZubon>what "sagi" stands for is "sudo apt-get install"
14:33<SupaZubon>now, I assume that you're not using sudo yet, right?
14:33<rafa4>right...just installed it
14:33<rafa4>not familiar with sudo anyway
14:33<rafa4>i mean just installed debian
14:33<SupaZubon>so first thing is you want to su to root
14:34<SupaZubon>and then just "apt-get install sudo"
14:34<rafa4>(i think)
14:35<rafa4>yep..itsthere now
14:35<SupaZubon>okay, now as root you run "visudo"
14:35<rafa4>so what is duso, anyway?
14:35<SupaZubon>are you familiar with vi?
14:35<SupaZubon>sudo is a better way to manage root privileges
14:35<SupaZubon>you may want to "apt-get install nano" first if you don't know vi
14:35<rafa4>yes..a little..i know how to modify files..
14:35<SupaZubon>okay, then you should be fine
14:36<SupaZubon>You should see an entry in the file that comes up when you visudo
14:36<SupaZubon>root ALL=(ALL) ALL
14:37<SupaZubon>You want to make one like that for your user account
14:37<rafa4>ok..i realized i made a mistake
14:37<SupaZubon>so for example, on mine I also have:
14:37<rafa4>i vi sudo
14:37<rafa4>not visudo
14:37<SupaZubon>nick ALL=(ALL) ALL
14:37<rafa4>let me go back
14:37<SupaZubon>haha yeah
14:37<SupaZubon>it's part of an old series of programs for editing crucial files in /etc
14:37<rafa4>ok..NOW im there
14:37<SupaZubon>there's also a vipw for doing /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow stuff
14:37<SupaZubon>but anyway
14:37<SupaZubon>what's your normal user account on this system?
14:38<rafa4>you not even sure..
14:38<rafa4>i dont even know if i rceated one
14:38<SupaZubon>have you even made yourself a non-root account?
14:39<SupaZubon>well then step one is to back out of this and make yourself a non-root account
14:39<SupaZubon>you can just ZZ or :wq or whatever to exit out
14:39<SupaZubon>you see, when you are root, you're the proverbial bull in the china shop
14:39<SupaZubon>the biggest danger to any system is its administrator :)
14:40<SupaZubon>so sudo helps you minimize the damage by making you only use root privilege for individual commands that need it
14:40<rafa4>haha..especially me
14:40<rafa4>ok good
14:40<rafa4>im back now i should create an account
14:41<SupaZubon>so instead of going all "BY HTE POWER OF GREYSKULL" and becoming he-man for an hour, you are more like batman deciding to use a batarang instead of his fist
14:41<SupaZubon>like "adduser rafa" or whatever you wnat your username to be
14:42<SupaZubon>oh man
14:43<rafa4>adduser worked
14:43<Battousai>useradd -m
14:43[~]Battousai heart lunix
14:43<SupaZubon>the two commands are six of one, half a dozen of the other, and have been for as long as I can recall :)
14:43<SupaZubon>so now you can visudo again and add that user to the sudoers list
14:43<Battousai>adduser -> useradd
14:43<SupaZubon>in that same pattern like I showed you above
14:43<Battousai>-> = symlink :P
14:43<SupaZubon>'bout time, too
14:44<rafa4> i go back to visudo?
14:44<SupaZubon>rafa4: exactly
14:44<SupaZubon>and then you do like "rafa ALL=(ALL) ALL"
14:44<SupaZubon>(that should be a tab in there)
14:45<rafa4>ok now?
14:45<SupaZubon>okay, now you should log out from root and log in as your user account
14:46<SupaZubon>now let's test your sudoer powers
14:47<SupaZubon>do like a "sudo cat /etc/shadow"
14:47<SupaZubon>it'll ask you for your ordinary user password
14:47<SupaZubon>and then it'll show you crazy hashed data if it works
14:48<rafa4>it did
14:48<tierra>paste output here =)
14:48[~]SupaZubon punches tierra
14:48<tronip>rafa4: tierra is just kidding :-)
14:48<SupaZubon>rafa4: that data can be used to hack your passwords :)
14:48<SupaZubon>that's why you needed sudo to cat it
14:48<SupaZubon>okay, now, what was the software you wanted to install again?
14:48<npmr>SupaZubon, i'm stumped on an apache problem
14:49<SupaZubon>npmr: shoot
14:49<npmr>can you think of any reason why it'd say a page had moved when it's just a static file and there's no special redirection configured?
14:49<npmr>and the file exists and is readable and all that
14:50<rafa4>i want to install j2se (java) so that i can install tomcat, so that i caninstall brekeke sip server
14:50<SupaZubon>was there a redirect at one point, npmr?
14:50<SupaZubon>rafa4: well, you should always think at the end goal with debian. The package tools will solve dependencies for you most of the time
14:50<npmr>there is a meta tag in the page with a refresh, that's as fancy as this page gets
14:51<npmr>it's a munin page, if that's any help
14:51<tronip>does box run virtual domains for web?
14:51<npmr> <-- this one, specifically
14:51<SupaZubon>rafa4: so as yourself, you can run "apt-cache search tomcat" and that will show you the names of all the packages available with "tomcat" in the description.
14:52<SupaZubon>tomcat4 - Java Servlet 2.3 engine with JSP 1.2 support
14:52<SupaZubon>that one looks promising
14:52<SupaZubon>so you should be able to "sagi tomcat4"
14:52<SupaZubon>where sagi is "sudo apt-get install"
14:52[~]npmr tries cold booting firefox
14:52<SupaZubon>I have a coupleo f aliases you may want to drop into /etc/bash.bashrc
14:52<tronip>could use lynx to rule out caching issues
14:52<tronip>(or links)
14:53<SupaZubon>npmr: I get no redirect. remember that those can be cached
14:53<rafa4>ok..let me try
14:53<npmr>i wonder if i accidentally loaded that page before the images had been generated the first time
14:53<SupaZubon>rafa4: here are the aliases I use:
14:53<SupaZubon>alias sagi='sudo aptitude install'
14:53<SupaZubon>alias sagr='sudo aptitude remove'
14:53<SupaZubon>alias shaboom='sudo sh -c "apt-get update && apt-get -u dist-upgrade && apt-get clean"'
14:53<npmr>therefore redirecting to 404 error page
14:53<SupaZubon>npmr: I have no images
14:54<SupaZubon>I see no images on there
14:54<SupaZubon>oh wait...
14:54<SupaZubon>yeah, no images
14:54<tronip>using lynx, i don't get a redirect, fwiw.
14:54<npmr>if you right click on 'daily graph' etc and 'View Image' you can see them
14:54<npmr>and then they are there when you go back to the page
14:54<SupaZubon>oh odd
14:55<npmr>the access log shows code 302 on the html and no accesses on the png
14:55<npmr>the error log shows nothing
14:55<SupaZubon>virthosting gubbins?
14:55<npmr>doubt it
14:55<npmr>i've had that stuff nailed for eons
14:55<SupaZubon>couldn't tell you, honestly
14:56<tronip>yeah vhost setup is my only other suggestion
14:56<tronip>had a weird issue of this kind due to slight misconfig of vhost other day
14:56<rafa4>suba...before i sagi
14:56<npmr>this is the only page in that path that has this problem
14:56<npmr>the others are all working just fine
14:56<SupaZubon>yes rafa4?
14:56<rafa4>i didnt see tomcat 4 on my apt cache search
14:57<SupaZubon>you ran "apt-cache search tomcat"?
14:57<rafa4>yes ill tell you what i got
14:57<SupaZubon>oh, it's in contrib
14:57<rafa4>i got..
14:57<rafa4>issue 69 of the linux gazzette
14:57<SupaZubon>rafa4: you need to edit your /etc/apt/sources.list
14:57<rafa4>issue 95
14:58<SupaZubon>rafa4: sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list
14:58<rafa4>libapache-mod-jk apache 1.3..etc
14:58<SupaZubon>rafa4: add contrib at the end like this:
14:58<SupaZubon>deb stable main contrib
14:58<SupaZubon>you may ultimately need to go for non-free software
14:59<SupaZubon>in which case you'd also add non-free to the end of those lines as well
14:59<SupaZubon>be sure to add them to the end of *each* deb line
15:00<rafa4> had that line already but without the contrib
15:00<rafa4>should i edit it and add contrib?
15:00<SupaZubon>I know.
15:00<SupaZubon>add contrib to the end of each line that begins in "deb"
15:04<@linbot>New news from forums: Yum Broke after install python2.3 in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
15:05<SupaZubon>so now you shaboom
15:05<rafa4>supa..i edited
15:05<rafa4>and went back and searched..
15:05<SupaZubon>first you shaboom
15:05<rafa4>ah ok
15:05<rafa4>hold on
15:06<npmr>[inkblot@dorothy:/etc/apache]$ pcregrep '(prozac|Rule)' referer-spammer-redirect.conf
15:06<npmr>RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} prozac [NC,OR]
15:06<npmr>RewriteRule . %{HTTP_REFERER} [R]
15:06<SupaZubon>I figured something like that
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15:07<rafa4>command not found sh-c
15:07<SupaZubon>oh, you may need to install aptitude first
15:07<SupaZubon>you ought to cut and paste this stuff
15:08<SupaZubon>alias sagi='sudo aptitude install'
15:08<SupaZubon>alias sagr='sudo aptitude remove'
15:08<SupaZubon>alias shaboom='sudo sh -c "apt-get update && apt-get -u dist-upgrade && apt-get clean"'
15:08<SupaZubon>there's a space in there!
15:08<rafa4>oops sorry
15:09<SupaZubon>so now you can sagi tomcat4
15:12<rafa4>im still back there with an error it could not open lock file var/lib/dpkg/lock open (permision denied)
15:14<rafa4>u there?
15:16<tronip>maybe try 'sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock' then retry?
15:16<rafa4> fixing it
15:16<rafa4>i made a mistake
15:16<SupaZubon>some other program never finished
15:16<SupaZubon>tronip: he probably still has that shaboom waiting saying "yes/no?"
15:16<tronip>ahh that's true.
15:17<rafa4>now i can get tomcat
15:17<SupaZubon>haha, ok
15:17<SupaZubon>you may want to grab aptitude first
15:17<SupaZubon>since that's what I use in my "sagi" alias
15:17<SupaZubon>it's sort of like apt-get++
15:17<rafa4>hold on..ill let you know..
15:17|-|harshy [] has joined #linode
15:18<rafa4>hold on..(im answering a call)
15:18<SupaZubon>no worries
15:18<SupaZubon>as you can see I'm also somewhat distracted today
15:18<rafa4>i know..
15:22<rafa4>this stuff is amazing
15:22<rafa4>i feel like im cheating here and wont ever learn linux
15:22<SupaZubon>yeah, it's a great way to avoid work
15:22<kvandivo>real men write their own kernel before installing linux
15:22<rafa4>this thing is pulling packages and isntalling like crazy
15:22<SupaZubon>I think it'll use kaffe as the java engine
15:22<SupaZubon>unless you put non-free in and tell it to use a non-free one
15:23<SupaZubon>at another shell, do "apt-cache show tomcat4"
15:23<rafa4>but j2se is free
15:23<SupaZubon>in particular, look at the Depends: line
15:23<tronip>kvandivo: real men with hair on chest writes everything in assembler including their own boot loaders ;)
15:23<SupaZubon>rafa4: is it no cost, or does it permit you to modify and redistribute freely with ultimate freedom and liberty?
15:24<SupaZubon>rafa4: non-free means "restricts your freedom" rather than "costs money"
15:24<rafa4> have to that u mention it..
15:24<SupaZubon>none of the non-free packages cost money
15:24<SupaZubon>they just have... questionable licenses
15:24<tronip>another way of looking at it: non-free = software where you have to read license agreements to figure out what you can and can't do
15:25<rafa4>how do i copy from shell to paste here?
15:26<SupaZubon>I dunno, I just snarf&barf, but I'm running linux on my desktop
15:26|-|harshy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:27<tronip>could ssh to the linux box from whereever you are, copy-n-paste into irc
15:27<SupaZubon>tronip: I think he's in the crazy java chat thingy
15:29<rafa4>it says i should install JDK 1.3 or 1.4 to run this package
15:30<SupaZubon>well, time to add non-free at the end of those contrib lines you did back there
15:30<SupaZubon>and run another shaboom
15:30<SupaZubon>sad to say
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15:30<SupaZubon>it's a pity the java community hates free software so much
15:31<SupaZubon>it's probably the single largest thing holding them back from widespread interneta doption
15:31<rafa4> i add non free or add new lines with non free?
15:31<SupaZubon>just append non-free to the deb lines
15:31<rafa4>before contrib?
15:32<SupaZubon>or after
15:32<SupaZubon>"main contrib non-free" are each sections of the package repository broken down by license
15:32<SupaZubon>main is all ordinary free software
15:32<SupaZubon>non-free is stuff under a proprietary license
15:33<SupaZubon>and contrib is free software that may need some other non-free package to function fully
15:34<rafa4>got it
15:34<kvandivo>what in the world would make you say that the java 'community' hates free software? Sun, the company, made the decision to not release their JDK under a "free" license.. how does that equate to the java community hating free software?
15:34<SupaZubon>I suppose there are a lot of java programs out there under free licenses
15:34<npmr>sun basically is the java community
15:35<SupaZubon>it's just a pity that the morons at sun still don't get that everything they do is too little, too late
15:35<rafa4>ok..after shabooming..what do i do?
15:35<rafa4>search for JDK?
15:36<SupaZubon>rafa4: apt-cache show tomcat | grep jdk
15:36<SupaZubon>er, tomcat4
15:36<SupaZubon>oh I'm sorry
15:36<SupaZubon>strike that
15:36<rafa4>ok..just in time
15:37<SupaZubon>apt-cache show tomcat4 | grep ^Depends
15:37<SupaZubon>that'll show you the mess of dependencies that tomcat has
15:37<SupaZubon>Depends: j2sdk1.4 | j2sdk1.3 | kaffe (>= 1.1.3) | java-virtual-machine, j2sdk1.4 | j2sdk1.3 | kaffe | java-compiler, libtomcat4-java (>= 4.1.31-3), libcommons-digester-java (>=, libcommons-collections-java (>= 2.1.1), libcommons-beanutils-java (>= 1.6.1), libcommons-logging-java (>= 1.0.4), adduser (>= 3.34), apache-utils (>= | apache2-common
15:37<SupaZubon>so I think you want to sagi j2sdk1.4
15:38<SupaZubon>but I don't do the non-free stuff, so you may want 1.3 for some reason that I don't understand
15:38[~]npmr wonders how far behind kaffe is
15:38<SupaZubon>I'd think that for server-side stuff
15:38<SupaZubon>you ought to be able to do just fine with kaffe and jikes and all that
15:38<npmr>jamvm - Java Virtual Machine which conforms to JVM specification 2
15:39<SupaZubon>but there may be some horrible huge j2ee nonsense that you just can't get without signing away your freedoms
15:39<npmr>gij-3.4 - The GNU Java bytecode interpreter
15:39<npmr>sablevm - Free implementation of Java Virtual Machine (JVM) second edition
15:39<npmr>^-- apt-cache search java-virtual-machine
15:39<SupaZubon>rafa4: yeah, npmr is right. you ought to at least try and see if any of the free JVMs/JDKs meet your requirements
15:40<npmr>i'm confident that the gnu gij/gcj suite will make a fine java platform in the long run
15:40<npmr>i have no idea where it currently stands
15:41<SupaZubon>I have the gcj plugin for mozilla
15:41<SupaZubon>and it can't run mindterm, alas
15:41<SupaZubon>I was hoping to be all free software javur ssh
15:41<rafa4>well..all i want to do is fire up tomcat so that i can install a sip server...
15:41<SupaZubon>sip server?
15:41<npmr>SupaZubon, voip
15:41<SupaZubon>see, you ought to start at the end and work backward
15:41<SupaZubon>I don't think you really needed all this tomcat stuff
15:41<rafa4>so you tell the candidate versions found for j2sdk1.4
15:42<SupaZubon>if you can catch mikegrb, he's got voip stuff going gangbiusters with all free software
15:42<npmr>rafa4, what sip software were you considering?
15:42<SupaZubon>asterisk and like
15:42[~]npmr too
15:42<rafa4>Brekeke Sip server
15:43<npmr>rafa4, asterisk and ser are native sip servers for linux
15:43<npmr>rafa4, ser is a true sip proxy server
15:43<npmr>rafa4, asterisk is a full-featured pbx server
15:43<npmr>they each have their place
15:44<rafa4>ok..i dont mind using them..but i am so new with linux..i dont want to get furstrated...atr least Brekeke has a decent java based administrator tool
15:44<rafa4>do you recoend me playing with those at my current level of ignorance?
15:44<rafa4>i am still not used to command line
15:44<npmr>perhaps not yet
15:44<SupaZubon>rafa4: you're a far sight ahead of most folks who come through here
15:45<npmr>but at some point, yes
15:45<npmr>i recommend it
15:45<SupaZubon>I mean, you've at least heard of vi :)
15:45<npmr>i have no experience with ser
15:45<npmr>all i use is asterisk, and i try to avoid sip where possible
15:45<rafa4>ill confess to something..but i dont want you guys to puke
15:45<npmr>puking is so 1895
15:45<rafa4>i was using webmin untill i decided to jump in the water and installed debian
15:46<npmr>er, 1995
15:46|-|harshy [] has joined #linode
15:46<warewolf>webmin considered bad for syadmin's mental health.
15:46<SupaZubon>well you at least saw the light
15:46<warewolf>er, sysadmin's mental health.
15:46<npmr>webmin is a crutch
15:46<rafa4> totally decided to get this to work
15:46<rafa4>now back to tomcat..
15:46<SupaZubon>sorry, no idea
15:46<npmr>if you can get by in the beginning without the crutch, you'll be better off
15:46<rafa4>ill tell you this thing installed a whole bunch of stuff before..
15:46<SupaZubon>we can probably help more with asterisk than tomcat
15:48<rafa4>at the same time..i shouldnt run away from trying to install this ..that way ill learn
15:49<rafa4> times up!! i have to pick up my daughter...would you leave a note here with your last recomendation for tomcat?
15:50<SupaZubon>rafa4: again, no idea. sagi asterisk :)
15:52|-|vaxen [~vaxen@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:52<rafa4>ok to get an idea.asterisk is sip solution?
15:52<SupaZubon>I's a VOIP PBX
15:53<SupaZubon>I don't use telephones much myself
15:53<SupaZubon>but there are folks here who have all the free VOIP stuff set up
15:53<SupaZubon>and they can help you better
15:53<rafa4>ok..ill take a look at asterisk
15:53<rafa4>thanks alot Supa
15:54<SupaZubon>best of luck!
15:54<tronip>asterisk is good stuff
15:54<rafa4>ok...looks like my metamorphosis will be complete
15:54<rafa4>see you all..thanks ..bye!
15:55<tronip>does have SIP support, though for a pure SIP setup, friend recommended... ventrilo
15:56<SupaZubon>also, by the way rafa4
15:56<SupaZubon>you don't need tomcat to run client-side java applets...
15:56<SupaZubon>just thought I'd point that out now
15:56<SupaZubon>just in case...
15:56<rafa4>no..tomcat was for running the sip server
15:56<SupaZubon>just thought I'd mention it
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15:57<rafa4>thanks tronip..ill look it up
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16:34<@linbot>New news from forums: Yum Broke after install python2.3 in General Discussion <>
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16:52<@linbot>you can't always get what you want
16:52<@linbot>but if you try sometime
16:52<@linbot>you might find ....
16:54<@mikegrb>you get a linode
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20:27<shayne>Question folks, I have set up my linode account and I am able to access the console via ssh. However, when I try to ssh to my node I get a "Connection closed" error.
20:27<shayne>I did an ssh -v and it looks like it closes the connection after the keyboard-interactive attempt at authentication (but before allowing me to enter a password).
20:31<shayne>Nothing at all in the logs... I feel a bit silly. I think the problem might be reverse mapping. Checking now.
20:32<shayne>ReverseMappingCheck is deprecated. Changing it to no (it was commented out as yes) did nothing.
20:34<gpd>filesystem (apart from FAT32) that is rw by both linux and windows?
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20:42<@caker>shayne: which kernel version are you running on the node?
20:44<Battousai>i blame random
20:44<npmr>gpd, ISO 9660
20:44<Battousai>gpd: ext2
20:45<npmr>vfat, fat12 fat16
20:45<gpd>ext2 under windows? haven't tried that for years... what software?
20:45<gpd>used to use explore2fs...
20:46<tronip>there's a fs driver available. i've used it before (free stuff). there's also a few commercial tools
20:46<gpd>I want to format 300G drive so FATxx is no good / scary
20:48<tronip>ahh the old ext2 thing was for win95/98, and read only
20:48<tronip>(the driver i have)
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20:50<tronip>ahh-ha, better:
20:50<tronip>has r/w support too
20:50<tronip>can use any windows tools including explorer to access it
20:51<gpd>excellent! I'll give it a try, thanks.
20:52<gpd>presumably it reads ext3 but doesn't write to the journal...
20:52<tronip>that's what i'm hoping.
20:55<tronip>i've never tried *that* particular software nor it with ext3, so i'd be interested in hearing how well it works out
20:55<tronip>on the bright side, ext2fsd seems to be actively maintained
20:57<gpd>installing... some options...
20:57<gpd>"enable write support for ext2 partitions"
20:57<gpd>"enable force writing support on ext3 partitions"
20:57<gpd>force? sounds dangerous...
20:59<Battousai>only when used for evil
21:00<tronip>i was reading the bugs list. interesting bug -- it "goes out to lunch" when you try to read or write more than ~60 GB, until next reboot
21:00<tronip>there's also an ext3 bug with file deletion of some kind
21:01<tronip>and about 2 dozen other bugs of different types
21:01<tronip>i almost want to suggest ntfs but the linux kernel driver's r/w mode has been known to shred stuff
21:02<tronip>(seen it)
21:03<tronip>is the bugs list, btw
21:05<gpd>just mounted my hda5 (ext3) as drive G: ;)
21:05<tronip>ahh nice
21:05<shayne>Sorry to bring this up again, phone:
21:05<shayne>debug1: Next authentication method: keyboard-interactive
21:05<shayne>Connection closed by
21:06<shayne>Can't seem to connect to my linode via anything but ssh.
21:06<tronip>shayne: caker was curious what kernel version you ran
21:06<gpd>is ssh actually working? try ssh localhost from the machine (obvious but hey)
21:07<shayne>gpd: I can ssh into the console.
21:08<tronip>have working dns? even if sshd disables reverse mapping, it still uses tcp wrapper libs which may enforce it anyway
21:09<tronip>also, i've noticed a weird bug with my linode where sometimes i connect but it kicks me out like you described
21:09<tronip>only happens once every few connects
21:09<tronip>(but eventually lets me in)
21:09<tronip>try sticking in this to your /etc/hosts.allow:
21:09<tronip>sshd: ALL
21:09<tronip>see if that makes anything change
21:11<tronip>as a final resort, stop sshd, then run it in debug mode with
21:12<tronip>sshd -d -D
21:12<tronip>then try a ssh connect
21:12<tronip>and see if the debug messages from sshd says anything noteworthy
21:12<tronip>daemon will exit after a single connection (whether it succeeds or not), fyi.
21:13<internat>afternoon all
21:13<tronip>morning ol' bean ;)
21:13<shayne>May I flood? I'm getting a segfault. 10 lines.
21:14<tronip>oooh that's not good.
21:14<tronip>can you query me and paste it there?
21:14<shayne>Looks like PAM is dumping.
21:14<tronip>that'd do it.
21:15<tronip>i know there was recent pam changes pushed out to Gentoo users but didn't break anything for me
21:17<kobs>!stock eqx
21:17<kobs>!stock eqix
21:17<@linbot>kobs: The current price of EQIX is 44.61, as of 4:00pm EST. A change of +0.15 from the last business day.
21:21<shayne>Thanks, folks!
21:21<shayne>tronip: Much obliged.
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21:21<gpd>doesn't ssh into the console (lish) use sshd from the host system?
21:22<internat>old my ass.. im a youngen
21:22<internat>geez im only 19 :P
21:23[~]kobs is younger
21:23<tronip>gpd: he could get to console via lish. he just couldn't get ssh to his linode (non-lish) working til he backed down to a 2.4 kernel
21:23<internat>lemme guess 18?
21:23<tronip>he was running debian 3.1
21:24<tronip>unusual issue.
21:24<internat>has he moved /lib/tls to /lib/tls-disabled
21:24<tronip>aye, suggested that... unfortunately after he'd just logged out :(
21:24<internat>that will be the isue
21:24<internat>ill be 20$ on it
21:25<kobs>internat: 17
21:25<internat>fuck i cant type today
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21:35<kobs>get a text-to-speech software package
21:35<kobs>speech-to-text? :-D
21:36|-|square [] has joined #linode
21:36<square>hey guys
21:36<square>what is the host os for linode boxes? for uml and xen?
21:37<@caker>square: linux :)
21:37<square>er, which distro :p
21:37<@caker>square: why?
21:37<square>was just wondering
21:38<@caker>square: stripped down RH for UML, undecided for the switch to Xen
21:38<square>oh riht
21:38<square>any progress on xen?
21:39<@caker>square: lots of progress on Xen -- check the xen mailing lists, they're checking in patches daily
21:39<@caker>square: also, #xen on this network
21:39<square>yeah, im there
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21:59<square>i think maybe i should get some sleep
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22:15<kobs>ruby on rails looks pretty enticing
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 12 00:00:35 2005