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#linode IRC Logs for 2005-11-18

---Logopened Fri Nov 18 00:00:50 2005
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04:15<eco>I created a new ext2 disk image but when I go to mount it ("mount /dev/ubdc /mnt/storage") I get "mount: Bad address". Does anyone know what's up?
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04:22<@mikegrb>you need to add the new image to your configuration profile
04:24<eco>There we go
04:24<eco>Thanks mikegrb
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05:52<linbot>New news from forums: Mapping Unix Directories to Windows in General Discussion <>
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08:51<Ximbiot>has anyone seen a system start "spinning" before? it's happened twice now - the uptime showed almost 20 once when I caught it and over 40 the second time, but no processes appear to be grabbing CPU in top. Yet the machine is still crawling. minutes just to get an ssh shell.
08:53<npmr>that sounds like "thrashing," not "spinning"
08:53<npmr>check your memory usage
08:53<npmr>in particular, your swap usage
08:55<Ximbiot>shoot. i rebooted now and can't see what the swap usage was. i'll look at it next time. what do i look for, high swap usage?
08:56<npmr>disk i/o is limited in a linode
08:56<Ximbiot>how so?
08:56<npmr>you'll be running along fine, eating up your disk i/o quota, and then you just run out
08:56<Ximbiot>what happens then?
08:56<npmr>[inkblot@dorothy:~]$ cat /proc/io_status
08:56<npmr>io_count=168580203 io_rate=0 io_tokens=400000 token_refill=512 token_max=400000
08:57<npmr>token_max is how many disk i/o operations i can do *right now*
08:57<npmr>er, sorry, io_tokens
08:57<npmr>token_refill is how many tokens are added to io_tokens every second
08:58<npmr>io_rate is how many tokens i used in the last second
08:58<npmr>so basically, when io_tokens gets down to 0
08:59<npmr>because you're using i/o tokens faster than they being given to you and your pool empties
08:59<npmr>at that point you can only do token_refill disk i/o operations per second
08:59<npmr>and 512 isn't really very many
08:59<Ximbiot>hrm. mine is refilling now, but it's low. like the hrashing emptied it?
09:00<npmr>if your system is constantly swapping pages in and out of memory (thrashing)
09:00<npmr>that uses a lot of i/o tokens
09:00<npmr>high swap usage is usually a pretty good indicator that this is happening
09:01<npmr>there is also the vmstat command
09:01<npmr>in particular, the si and so columns in vmstat's output
09:01<npmr>(swap in, swap out)
09:01<Ximbiot>i didn't start any new processes, but i have a web site up with perl/cgi. could it be growing over time to fill swap?
09:01<npmr>it could
09:02<kvandivo>does that include mysql?
09:02<npmr>watch cat /proc/io_tokens
09:02<Ximbiot>yes, using mysql.
09:02<kvandivo> is a sample mysql cnf that limits memory usage
09:02<npmr>that's probably the problem
09:03<npmr>use caker's my.cnf
09:03<kvandivo>also, in your apache conf, limit the number of servers that it lets sit idle
09:03<Ximbiot>also, whatever this is has started again and i still have half swap free.
09:03<npmr>Ximbiot, watch cat /proc/io_tokens
09:04<Ximbiot>going to slow to do anything again already. :(
09:04<Ximbiot>looked okay a moment ago when this first started.
09:05<npmr>shut down mysql
09:05<Ximbiot>tokens is 0, alright.
09:06<Ximbiot>ah, i looked at count before. tokens was heading down earlier too.
09:07<Ximbiot>is responding slowly... mysqld may come down in a sec.
09:07<kvandivo>you doing mail/spam assassin, perchance?
09:08<Ximbiot>no. haven't tried to move my mail server yet. bad idea?
09:08<kvandivo>spam assassin is, unless you have lots of memory
09:08<kvandivo>it's a hog
09:08<Beirdo>almost as bad as Java
09:09<Beirdo>which I have running (ick)
09:09<Beirdo>for now
09:09<Beirdo>just freed 12M of memory with caker's config (or parts of it anyways)
09:09<Ximbiot>hrm: This is for a system with little memory (<= 64M) where MySQL is only used
09:09<Ximbiot># from time to time and it's important that the mysqld deamon
09:09<Ximbiot># doesn't use much resources.
09:09<kvandivo>Ximbiot: to raise your happiness level, be aware that you are going through the puberty period.. once you get your stuff optimized to stay in ram you'll be sailing
09:10<Beirdo>oh wait, I saved... 32MB
09:10<Beirdo>20MB of swap too
09:10<Ximbiot>what happens if my mysql daemon is used for lookup several times a second?
09:10<Beirdo>all the more reason to keep it trimmed
09:11<Beirdo>otherwise it may end up swapping in and out all the time
09:11<Beirdo>depending on what else the linode is trying to do
09:12<Ximbiot>wow. load average got up to 79.41 that time.
09:13<npmr>i've seen triple that before
09:13<kvandivo>just how many hits are you getting on this website.. if you are having mysql lookups "several times a second"
09:13<Ximbiot>12k a day.
09:13<Ximbiot>weekdays are better.
09:13<bendy24>thats all?
09:13<kvandivo>!calc 12000 / 24 / 3600
09:13<linbot>kvandivo: (12,000 / 24) / 3,600 = 0.138888889
09:14<Ximbiot>um, i think that is unique page views i gave, not hits. don't know hits.
09:15<npmr>you don't use any kind of monitor?
09:15<Ximbiot>i generate a report with wwwstat nightly. i think that gives hits.
09:15<Ximbiot>haven't found a monitor i like yet, tho.
09:15<Ximbiot>have any suggestions.
09:16<npmr>i like munin
09:16<npmr> <-- mine
09:17<NeonNero>well, last update for wwwstat was 1996
09:17<kvandivo>ya.. he needs to be running more daemons...
09:18<Ximbiot>heh. could slurp the logs and run the daemons elsewhere. uptime isn't important for the montitor. :)
09:19<NeonNero>i think webalizer is quite pretty... output example:
09:19<npmr>yeah, i use that too
09:21<Ximbiot>i'm still using 100M swap with mysqld down. and climbing.
09:21<kvandivo>what's using it?
09:21<npmr>shut down apache
09:21<Ximbiot>that did it.
09:22<kvandivo>did you tweak the conf like i had said?
09:22<Ximbiot>that cleard 100M swap & 60M of real memory.
09:22<Ximbiot>hadn't yet. was still working on mysql.
09:22<kvandivo>what apache?
09:23<Ximbiot>you know which key is # of servers for apache?
09:24<kvandivo>my apache1 settings that are relevant.. tweak as desired..
09:24<kvandivo>MinSpareServers 1
09:24<kvandivo>MaxSpareServers 3
09:24<kvandivo>StartServers 1
09:24<kvandivo>MaxClients 8
09:24<kvandivo>MaxRequestsPerChild 1000
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09:24<Ximbiot>what about min and max threads?
09:25<kvandivo>if you have threads, you aren't using apache 1
09:25<Ximbiot>apache 2.
09:25<Ximbiot>most of the keys you listed are here tho.
09:25<kvandivo>you're on your own, then.. (at least i'm not going to be the one to give advice on something i don't use)
09:26<npmr>which mpm are you using?
09:27<kvandivo>!google apache mpm
09:27<Ximbiot>ah. not sure. just a sec.
09:27<linbot>kvandivo: Search took 0.219035 seconds: worker - Apache HTTP Server: <>; prefork - Apache HTTP Server: <>; leader - Apache HTTP Server: <>; threadpool - Apache HTTP Server: <>; Debian -- (2 more messages)
09:27<Ximbiot>do you recomend one over the other?
09:27<npmr>prefork is equivalent to apache 1.3 operation
09:27<npmr>it is required by some modules, notably mod_php
09:28<npmr>worker is better, if you can use it
09:28<Ximbiot>ah, so i should go with that? i'm using php.
09:28<npmr>if you're using php you have no choice
09:28<npmr>you must use and are using prefork
09:29<npmr>that's fine, but it stills needs tuning
09:29<npmr>kvandivo's suggestioned configuration is good
09:30<Ximbiot>okay. i put that in for prefork mpm.
09:30<npmr>i would make one change to it
09:30<npmr>drop MaxRequestsPerChild to somewhere in the 20-80 range
09:30<npmr>are your perl cgis resident?
09:30<Ximbiot>mod_perl, so i think the answer is yes.
09:30<npmr>ok, yes they are
09:31<kvandivo>the only reason to even use something as low as 1000 on MRPC is because of memory leaks.. why make the process restart itself every minute or two (at his hit rate)?
09:31<npmr>that means your apache child processes are probably growing over time
09:31<npmr>lower MaxRequestsPerChild is better in that case
09:31<Ximbiot>okay. now apahce isn't even touching swap.
09:32<Ximbiot>still growing, tho.
09:32<npmr>that's fine
09:32<npmr>see where it goes
09:32<npmr>tune further from there
09:32<Ximbiot>dropped again. good. that leaves about 20M for mysql.
09:32<Ximbiot>which will fall over into swap, but a little's okay, i assume.
09:34<Ximbiot>wow. mysql only used about 5M. everything is now in memory.
09:35<Ximbiot>thanks, all.
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09:37<Beirdo>I further tweaked my apache :)
09:38<Beirdo>StartServers 5
09:38<Beirdo>MinSpareServers 2
09:38<Beirdo>MaxSpareServers 4
09:38<Beirdo>MaxClients 20
09:38<Beirdo>MaxRequestsPerChild 1000
09:38<Beirdo>closer to kvandivo's config :)
09:38<npmr>why MaxRequestsPerChild so high?
09:38<Beirdo>I had it unlimited before
09:38<Beirdo>it takes care of itself
09:39<Beirdo>I'm looking for an occasionaly restart, not a constant one
09:40<npmr>so that your leaky daemons can have a big ol' memory feast before they're escorted away from the table
09:40<Beirdo>I'm not in the thrashing situation
09:41<Beirdo>they aren't leaky enough to be a problem
09:41[~]bendy24 turns on some thrashy music
09:41<Beirdo>yours may be, mine aren't :O)
09:41<kvandivo>ditto.. and if mine leaked, i'm pretty confident my io_tokens would let me know
09:47<Ximbiot>is it odd that i see only one httpd in top with the prefork mpm?
09:49<kvandivo>if it's working acceptably, who cares?
09:49<Ximbiot>trying to tune up to restore some speed now.
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10:25<@mikegrb>Ximbiot: try adding skip-innodb; to the [mysqld] section of your my.cnf
10:25<@mikegrb>should cut you mysql ram usage by at least half
10:38<Ximbiot>mikegrb, okay, thanks.
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12:14<linbot>New news from forums: PostgreSQL or MySQL? in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
12:18<bendy24>mssql by far
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12:20<@mikegrb>bendy24: ms sql server
12:20[~]mikegrb runs
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12:39[~]Ximbiot_ pokes Ximbiot.
12:39[~]Ximbiot_ notices that Ximbiot looks strikingly familar.
12:41[~]Ximbiot_ sneaks behind Ximbiot and gives him bunny ears.
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12:47<ascott>good morning.
12:48<ascott>is caker or mikegrb about?
12:49<ascott>my buddy wants to buy a linode 80 -- he missed it on Tuesday. He's trying again today.
12:49<tierra>mikegrb was on 20 minutes ago, probably still around somewhere
12:49<ascott>thanks tierra.
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14:12<linbot>New news from forums: Terminal unresponsive in General Discussion <>
14:32<kvandivo>that, i like
14:44<Ximbiot>nice, nice, small-profile mysqld.
14:44[~]Ximbiot pats his mysqld.
14:46<kvandivo>i so told you that you'd be loving life once you made it through the memory issue.
14:47<tjfontaine>mysql vas?
14:47<tjfontaine>I was just pointing that my mysql profile is so small it's non-existent
14:48<kvandivo>oh. the question mark threw me
14:48<tjfontaine>it was just an implied, what about mysql vas: "mysql vas?"
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15:00<Ximbiot>kvandivo, :)
15:00<Ximbiot>yes, much nicer now.
15:00<Ximbiot>and 20M of free memory if i need it. :)
15:17[~]fo0bar needs to reboot his linode to get the extra memory one of these days
15:17<fo0bar> 13:17:20 up 92 days, 2:12, 5 users, load average: 0.02, 0.04, 0.00
15:18<fo0bar>maybe I'll wait until 100 days
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15:26<dsp^>caker: you use verisign payflow pro, right?
15:26<dsp^>i'm trying to get a copy of their silly sdk to evaluate it before we make the jump
15:26<dsp^>and their web site is super broken
15:26<dsp^>i can't get signed up for the trial
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15:48<@caker>dsp^: actually I'm still using the old Cybercash API
15:48<dsp^>caker: ah
15:48<dsp^>i think i've got it sort of figured out
15:48<@mikegrb>because caker is old
15:48<dsp^>they seem to be pushing xmlpay
15:49<dsp^>which is well documented
15:49<dsp^>so i'm less concerned now
15:49<dsp^>it just annoys me all these companies are so tight lipped about that crap
15:49<dsp^>why should i have to be a customer to see the api or dl your sdk?
15:49<dsp^>paypal seems to be the only group open about that stuff
15:49<dsp^>i hate soap, but at least i could evaluate that crack before signing up
15:50<dsp^>i actually built everything around paypal's pro api, and then the ceo decides we need monthly recurring
15:50<dsp^>paypal's option for that is a no go
15:50<dsp^>so then i had to search for a new soln
15:51<kvandivo>good thing they're paying you the big bucks
15:51<@mikegrb>kvandivo: problem is most places won't take cash that is 300% actual size
15:53<kvandivo>mikegrb: revel in the moment. i think he's laughing at your comment
15:54<dsp^>last time i was in mexico i found this bill on the street that was some pretty large number of pesos
15:54<dsp^>i think it equated to like 20 to 50 USD
15:54<dsp^>it was a pretty small bill though
15:55<kvandivo>i thought you were going to say it equated to 27 cents
15:55<dsp^>too small to be real probably
15:55<dsp^>but i had to ask
15:55<dsp^>so me, the stupid US citizen, asked a hotel staff member
15:55<dsp^>and then got made fun of
15:57<dsp^>so when does linode IPO? :P
15:57<@mikegrb>we are having a party
15:58<dsp^>up to like 55 hosts? is that accurate?
15:58<@caker>as of today, yes
15:58<kvandivo>i put in a limit order on an IPO just this morning, but when the stock hit the secondary market it was selling for twice the IPO price
15:58<dsp^>caker: just you and one employee still?
15:58<@caker>dsp^: so far
15:59<kvandivo>and a bunch of incognito helpers in the channel
15:59<@mikegrb>yeah, kvandivo is in a cognito
15:59<dsp^>kvandivo: i take it one is you? :P
15:59<kvandivo>me? i attempt to hurt as much as i help.. i figure it evens out that way
15:59<@mikegrb>yeah, kvandivo's face hurts to look at
16:00<kvandivo>sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me
16:00<dsp^>linode is more reliable than rackspace ime
16:00<dsp^>pretty sad given the price differential
16:01[~]mikegrb beats kvandivo with a stick
16:01[~]Ximbiot picks up a rock carved to look like the word "word" and lobs it at kvandivo.
16:01<@mikegrb>good one
16:02<Ximbiot>sorry kvandivo, couldn't resist.
16:02<kvandivo>no need to apologize to me
16:06<fo0bar>dsp^: rackspace is latin for "anal rape"
16:07<dsp^>seems to be
16:07<@mikegrb>mmm for
16:08[~]fo0bar ponders lunch
16:09[~]Ximbiot ponders the carrot cake in the fridge once again (really he just wants to see mikegrb say "mmm cake").
16:10<@mikegrb>mmm cake
16:10<@mikegrb>mmm cake
16:10<kvandivo>did you see the cake i had this afternoon?
16:11<@mikegrb>mmm cake
16:11<fo0bar>wow, that's some pretty cake
16:11<@mikegrb>mmm cake
16:11<Ximbiot>that's a big cake.
16:11<@mikegrb>mmm cake
16:11<kvandivo>it was amazing looking.. looked like it was a plastic shell that you needed to take off to get to the actual cake
16:12<@mikegrb>kvandivo: <-- you should flip that one
16:12<kvandivo>but, it was just very smooth chocolate stuff
16:12<@mikegrb>kvandivo: that's how hunter's cake was!
16:12<kvandivo>mikegrb: i like seeing how many people notice
16:13<@mikegrb>roll out the fondant with a rolling pin
16:13<@mikegrb>then /carefully/ place it over the cake
16:13<@mikegrb>like a plastic shell
16:14<@mikegrb>that's powdered sugar all over the table, yum :>
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16:19<Ximbiot>Hrm. Is a fake labled "fake" really fake?
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16:21<anderiv>so - will there really be some linode 120 available today?
16:21[~]anderiv is starting to outgrow his 80
16:25<@mikegrb>quite possibly
16:25<@mikegrb>if not, probably morning time
16:25<anderiv>can I do the annual payment deal through the web interface?
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16:25<anderiv>got it
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16:26<anderiv>mikegrb: thanks
16:27<@mikegrb>no prob, bob
16:27<@mikegrb>or anderiv
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16:29<anderiv>these new hosts will be in The Planet, correct?
16:34<anderiv>great - transferring data from my current linode will be quite painless in that case.
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18:30<tekmav>hello everyone
18:39<@caker>tekmav: hello
18:42<tekmav>just thought i would pop in and see what was going on in here whilst i redo my mail server
18:44<fo0bar>tekmav: there are rioters in isolated sections of #linode, so be careful
18:45<tierra>NO! NEVAR fo0bar!!!!
18:45[~]bendy24 clubs fo0bar
18:45<@mikegrb>mmm cake
18:45<tekmav>and here i thought things calmed down after we let the subjects eat cake
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18:54<tekmav>i am not sure which is more disturbing, my config files or that my nephew is watching teletubbies
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19:01<tierra>if it's sendmail, it's your config files
19:02<tekmav>hehehe, i am not that masochistic
19:03[~]bendy24 throws the bat book at tekmav and tierra
19:04<tekmav>i do have one question though, is there a way to sort of get an idea of which distributions are used the most of linode?
19:04[~]tekmav ducks and makes a teletubbie wave
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19:06<tierra>that's not fair though, debian was first distro available for use was it not?
19:06<@mikegrb>as far as I know there were quite a few available from the start
19:06<bendy24>gah, 13% gentoo
19:06<@mikegrb>bendy24: I know
19:07<@mikegrb>bendy24: and 40% of the tickets
19:07<@mikegrb>from 13% of the people
19:07[~]mikegrb rins
19:07<tekmav>interesting figures
19:07<bendy24>mikegrb: i would ask them why, but that would be like asking the meaning of life
19:07<@mikegrb>there is no reason?
19:07[~]bendy24 runs too
19:08<tekmav>i run gentoo at home and have been more than satisfied with it. but just looking at things from a new perspective lately, i am considering a change-up for my linode
19:08<alnr> never used gentoo but i wonder, are any 2 gentoo machines alike since you are building everything
19:08<@mikegrb>tekmav: the support ticket figure is a rought estimate
19:09<tekmav>alnr: yes two machines can be alike. just depends on customization settings for make or software configs whether or not you will end up with the same outcome
19:11<alnr>tekmav: i would imagine that that would contribute to less consistency, and maybe that is the reason why more tickets?
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19:14<tekmav>alnr: quite possibly. because you can set certain things during the build that you cannot on pre-built packages, you have a tendancy to hit snags that you would not normally have foreseen, ie compiling php or rails without the support for mysql. that is a lighter example. however, some can be bigger issues
19:15<@mikegrb>alnr: no, not that sort of ticket ;)
19:15<tekmav>alnr: also gentoo places some config files in a different location from other distributions.
19:15<@mikegrb>alnr: tickets like emerge got said there was a 404 and quit
19:16<alnr>well, that one is greek to me :)
19:16<@mikegrb>http 404
19:16<bendy24>not found
19:16<alnr>this i know
19:16<@mikegrb>couldn't download a tarball
19:17<tekmav>mikegrb: ah, poor little 404. the misunderstood error number. and we wonder why he became such a bad egg. poor thing, probably out on corners selling unsuspecting clients his own evil
19:17<alnr>i see. so i guess theres a lot of moving parts to building a gentoo
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19:18<@mikegrb>well, the tickets really don;t have anything to do with the distro
19:20<tierra>I like how mikegrb mentions that after using the 40% of tickets number to imply what a bad distro it is
19:20<@mikegrb>it has nothing to do with the distro
19:21<tekmav>alnr: an example of a ticket comes from me where i modified the networking and accidently left of the gateway. i should have been able to get in with lish, but since i am not used to working with consoles on gentoo (my desktop is gentoo), i could not get back in to fix my mistake. i did not give permission to the console for login
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19:54<@caker>fo0bar: heh, your "Inspirational Linux Posters" link just got posted to NLUG ML
19:55[~]efudd ponder
19:56<efudd>i'm dying.
19:58[~]efudd mirrors
19:59[~]bendy24 continues to stare are ubuntu
20:21<tekmav>ubuntu + gentoo = hustlerOS?
20:29<fo0bar>caker: nlug?
20:30<fo0bar>doh, their archives haven't been updated since july
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21:00<@caker>fo0bar: yeah, I asked them about that a few days ago ... it's collecting mail, it just hasn't been pushed to the website
21:04<@caker>heh .. Linode has been asked to present at SCALE 4x this year
21:04<@caker>actually, it's in Feb
21:07<@mikegrb>that's not this year you rotten liar
21:08<tjfontaine>depends on when he starts his fiscal year
21:08<tjfontaine>or if he follows the chinese calendar
21:30<[|^__^|]>Chinese new year is on January 29th this year
21:30<@caker> <-- SCALE 4x
21:30<[|^__^|]>er, next year
21:30<[|^__^|]>I know this because I'm pitching a contract to a guy in Macao
21:31<[|^__^|]>and he warned me that the end of January was a write-off as far as getting anything done in China
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22:06<linbot>New news from forums: Feature Request: FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) support in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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23:18<linbot>New news from forums: UT2004 Server in General Discussion <>
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23:41<[|^__^|]>forgot that network pipe can overwhelm I/O
23:43[~][|^__^|] reboots
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 19 00:00:40 2005