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#linode IRC Logs for 2005-12-07

---Logopened Wed Dec 07 00:00:45 2005
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00:52<fake>hmm i've got a read only fs all of a sudden
00:52<@caker>fake: just reboot, it should be ok
00:52<@caker>partition filled up this afternoon
00:53<fake>ok, brb.
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00:57<fake>ok, it's all fine
00:57<@caker>good good
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00:58<psykoyiko>so caker, is Xen 3.0 really all shiznat?
00:58<psykoyiko>aka, is it really ready?
00:58<@caker>psykoyiko: ready for more testing, in their view
00:58<psykoyiko>I see.
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01:15<@caker>"mm, this sounds a lot like the BIOS insanity we saw on one cheapo Chaintech board. We knew it was bad when the thing reported in its boot display that the CPU was an "Intel Athlon". Things only got worse from there; but sadly there was no BIOS update, and we ended up throwing away the $35 board just on general principles :-D ."
01:15<@caker>^-- har
01:16<irgeek>linbot: weather den
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09:28<LJ>caker are you there ?
09:29<kvandivo>he's most definitely there
09:30<bendy24>we got another foot of snow last night
09:31<kvandivo>zero degree F this morning here.. 3-4 inches expected during the course of the day tomorrow
09:31<Beirdo>oooh, nice
09:31<Beirdo>it's snowing at the center of the universe again
09:32<LJ>so good. where are you ? it is long time we can't see snow in our cuntry. i only can rember that beautiful scine in my dream.
09:32<npmr>1 degree F here
09:32<npmr>no snow in the forecast
09:32<LJ>so cold.
09:32<Redgore>!weather Philadelphia
09:33<kvandivo>enjoy the snow while you've got it, buddy (pointing at Beirdo)
09:33<Beirdo>kvandivo: hehe, I hear ya :)
09:33<Redgore>!weather 19125
09:33<linbot>Redgore: The current temperature in Philadelphia, PA is 31\xB0F. Conditions: Partly Sunny. Humidity: 49%. Wind: W at 16 mph (26 km/h).
09:33<npmr><-- is chicago
09:33<Beirdo>!weather Toronto
09:33<linbot>Beirdo: The current temperature in Toronto, Ontario is 21\xB0F. Conditions: Partly Sunny. Humidity: 73%. Wind: WNW at 16 mph (26 km/h).
09:33<npmr>!weather 60625
09:33<linbot>npmr: The current temperature in Skokie, IL is 3\xB0F. Conditions: Sunny. Humidity: 72%. Wind: W at 6 mph (10 km/h).
09:33<Beirdo>partly sunny, my ass
09:33<linbot>No idea.
09:33<Beirdo>it's snowin
09:33<kvandivo>npmr: i'm 100 miles south of chi town.. you might be in for some snow tomorrow, too
09:33<npmr>what the hell
09:33<bendy24>Beirdo: pull up your pants and it will be overcast again
09:34<Beirdo>that's a moon
09:34<bendy24>not the front
09:34<LJ>i watch the img. it's very beautiful
09:34<Beirdo>Blue Mountain's a nice spot
09:35<Beirdo>not much of a mountain, but for this area, it'll do
09:35<npmr>i've never been there
09:35<npmr>somehow i got a trail map for the place
09:36<kvandivo>Mount Bohemia.. that's where it's at
09:36<npmr>looks roughly equivalent to boyne mountain but wider
09:36<Beirdo>Mount Washington... go ski that
09:36<npmr>no thanks
09:36<npmr>if i had my pick, i go to big sky
09:36<Beirdo>we're all a bunch of wusses
09:36<npmr>or arapahoe
09:37<Beirdo>I'll settle for the caribbean
09:37<Beirdo>screw skiing
09:37<npmr>ha ha
09:37<npmr>what's the highest cliff you've ever skied off of?
09:37<Beirdo>I don't ski
09:37<npmr>i see
09:38[~]npmr 6m
09:38<Beirdo>I'd rather sit my fat ass in the chalet
09:38<npmr>maybe 7
09:38<Beirdo>or take a snowmobile down the mountain
09:38<Beirdo>snowmobile + moguls = fun destruction
09:39<Beirdo>took my cousin's off an 8 foot snow drift at about 80mph once
09:39<Beirdo>that was fun
09:39<Beirdo>until you land. that hurts the ass
09:40<npmr>yeah, landing on a 60% slope covered in fine powder helps
09:40<npmr>60 degree, not %
09:40<Beirdo>at least I had the presence of mind to lean back
09:40<Beirdo>so the track hit first :)
09:40<Beirdo>skis first at 80mph would mean ME flying at 80mph
09:41<Beirdo>the things stupid teenagers will try
09:41<Beirdo>of course, he rolled the same sled at 70mph
09:41<kvandivo>they had snowmobiles then?
09:41<Beirdo>that was fun
09:41<Beirdo>we just finished fixing it, and he rolled it
09:42<Beirdo>then we had to fix it again
09:42<npmr> <-- the upper east wall is a lot of fun
09:42<bendy24>hhh snomobiles
09:42<bendy24>ride one for a day
09:42<bendy24>fix it for a week
09:42<kvandivo>never done abasin.. thought about it a couple of times, but i've alway find myself going back to Breck
09:42<Beirdo>yeah, sometimes
09:42<Beirdo>he flipped it right in front of his house once
09:43<Beirdo>almost gave my aunt a heart attack
09:43<bendy24>no doubt
09:43<Beirdo>then he got up, climbed back on, and took off
09:43<Beirdo>somehow it ended up on its tracks
09:44<Beirdo>ah the joy of living in the snow belt
09:44<npmr> <-- note location of liberty bowl on the south face
09:45<npmr>i was sitting about 1/4 of the way down from the top one day catching my breath
09:45<npmr>somewhere off to the west, maybe two or three miles away
09:45<npmr>there was a small explosion, like park rangers detonating avalanche charges
09:45<npmr>it's a fairly common practice
09:46<npmr>about twenty seconds after the explosion i felt and heard a shock wave rush through the snow i was sitting on
09:46<npmr>and i was sitting right in the middle of a bowl full of snow on a pretty steep incline
09:47<kvandivo>and you said to yourself, "enough of a break. time to ski"
09:48<npmr>yeah, there's really nothing that'll light a fire under your ass like the threat of being buried alive
09:48<kvandivo>fire could have been a good thing, though
09:48<npmr>the snow stayed put, but i didn't go back to that bowl that day
09:50<Beirdo>that's a bit worse than being skating on the middle of a lake when the pressure cracks boom
09:50<Beirdo>that scares the piss right outta you though
09:51<Beirdo>especially when you know you are like half a mile from shore, and the water's hundreds of feet deep
09:52<npmr>what, georgian bay?
09:52<Beirdo>that's when you head for shore
09:52<Beirdo>nah, muskoka lakes
09:52<Beirdo>close though :)
09:52<Beirdo>right by Georgian Bay
09:52<Beirdo>I grew up on Lake Joseph
09:52<kvandivo>house boat?
09:52[~]kvandivo runs and hides.
09:53<Beirdo>OK, about 15 feet from it
09:53<Beirdo>luser :)
09:53<npmr>i grew up in michigan
09:53<Beirdo>although in the summer, I was in the lake as much as possible
09:53<Beirdo>ah, the other side of de lake
09:53<kvandivo>npmr: sounds like you need to do Mount Bohemia
09:54<Beirdo>my cousins have a cottage in Mio (or was it in Fairview, can't remember)
09:54<Beirdo>nice place to go to relax
09:54<npmr>oh, porcupine mountains.... nice
09:54<npmr>never skied there before
09:54<kvandivo>the 'resort' is quite new, from what i understand
09:55<kvandivo>sounds like you're man enough to handle it, though..
09:55<kvandivo>personally, i'm staying at least 4 hours away from it
09:58[~]Beirdo hands kvandivo a toboggan
09:58<Beirdo>have fun
09:58<kvandivo>some of the pictures from their site don't look safe for toboggans
09:58<Beirdo>I wonder if the ski hills here will let you use a toboggan on them?
09:59<Beirdo>if it's safe for skis, it's safe for toboggans if you know what yer doing :)
09:59<Beirdo>if not... well, a straight line to a tree down a mountain...
09:59<Beirdo>you just have to be a certain kind of insane to try it
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10:01<npmr>ha ha another resort with a trail called "powder keg"
10:01<npmr>seriously, *everyone* has a run with that name
10:03<tsi>i don't
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10:49<fake>read-only filesystem again :/
10:50<fake>failure mirror # mount -o remount,rw /
10:50<fake>mount: block device /dev/ubd/0 is write-protected, mounting read-only
10:50<fake>failure mirror # df -h
10:50<fake>Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
10:50<fake>/dev/ubd/0 8.5G 1.7G 6.9G 20% /
10:50<fake>none 116M 0 116M 0% /dev/shm
10:52<tsi>is it marked read only in the web console?
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11:14<ravsi>is it possible to upgrade from a linode 80 to a 160 and keep my IP's?
11:15<kvandivo>most likely. if you have to change datacenters, your IPs will change, though
11:18|-|[] changed the topic of #linode: The Linode Virtual Server hang out | | | | | This is a public channel which is logged; don't submit information you don't want to see in search engines (email addresses, etc)
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12:01<linbot>New news from forums: Pro rated Refund & Cancellation in Sales Questions and Answers <>
12:20<kevinl>im setting up apache on my linode which is going to have a couple of different domains on it on the same IP. I set up a few virtualhosts but no matter which one i go to i get the documents for the first one. i know this is something simple.. can anyone tell me what im missing?
12:21<Redgore>you restarted apache after editing the config ?
12:22<Redgore>any error's in the log ?
12:24<Redgore>what are the vhosts called ?
12:24<tsi><NameVirtualHost *>
12:24<tsi>err without the <>
12:25<tsi>that's probably missing/commented
12:26<kevinl>nope i got that..
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12:44<vaxen>what music is good for getting over your ex?
12:47<Redgore>anything but love music and everybody hurts by REM (dont listen to that)
12:48<vaxen>great thats just what i need
12:48<vaxen>which album is everybody hurts on?
12:49<vaxen>amarok search rox
12:56<vaxen>latest 2.6 kernel series will work okay with debian small?
13:03<vaxen>vaxen@homer ~ $ ssh
13:03<vaxen>Connection closed by
13:04<vaxen>this is newly installed debian small
13:14<tsi>PermitRootLogin Without-Password
13:14<tsi>(is probably the default)
13:14<tsi>or PermitRootLogin no
13:15<vaxen>dpkg: 4 expected program(s) not found on PATH.
13:15<vaxen>NB: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin.
13:15<vaxen>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
13:15<vaxen>sorry i am totally debian newbie
13:15<vaxen>i tried apt-get upgrade
13:15<tsi>apt-get fedora
13:15[~]tsi ducks
13:16<vaxen>whats that for?
13:16<tsi>inciting holy wars, mostly
13:17<vaxen>ever since RH 4.2 i swore never to touch RH again
13:17<bendy24>5.2 was a rock
13:18<bendy24>6 was crap
13:18<tsi>yeah, 4 isn't a good version to judge on
13:18<vaxen>any debian gurus to give some pointers?
13:18<tsi>6 was the first with 2.0 kernel? or was that 7?
13:18<bendy24>5.2 had the 2.0 kernel
13:18<bendy24>you are thinking 2.2?
13:19<tsi>must be
13:19<tsi>i know i've been burned on every .0 release from rh since 5
13:19<bendy24>vaxen: you may need to dist-upgrade
13:20<vaxen>isnt the debian small image on linode already a sarge?
13:20<bendy24>should be
13:23<npmr>vaxen, try some simon and garfunkel.... "cecelia" and "mrs. robinson" particularly
13:23<@mikegrb>vaxen: mv /lib/tls /lib/tls-disabled
13:24<vaxen>mikegrb: is that to remove nptl support?
13:25<vaxen>npmr: let me search, i dont think i have their album
13:25<npmr>got prodigy?
13:25<npmr>there's always "smack my bitch up"
13:25<bendy24>mikegrb: good morning
13:25[~]bendy24 smacks mikegrb
13:26<vaxen>npmr: I wanna have something that make me feel worst
13:26<npmr>concrete blonde, "everybody knows"
13:26<npmr>the frames, "so what happens when the heart just stops" <-- just don't slit your wrists after, k?
13:26<vaxen>dpkg: `ldconfig' not found on PATH.
13:26<vaxen>dpkg: `start-stop-daemon' not found on PATH.
13:26<vaxen>dpkg: `install-info' not found on PATH.
13:26<vaxen>dpkg: `update-rc.d' not found on PATH.
13:26<vaxen>dpkg: 4 expected program(s) not found on PATH.
13:26<vaxen>NB: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin.
13:26<vaxen>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
13:27<vaxen>sorry for the flood
13:29<vaxen>npmr: never heard of them, what band are they?
13:30<kvandivo>vaxen: Sometimes When We Touch by Dan Hill is one that really allowed me to feel sorry for myself.. The lyrics are precious, but not exactly related to being broken up
13:31<npmr>vaxen, which song?
13:32<vaxen>concrete blode, the frames
13:32<vaxen>my music collection sucks
13:34<vaxen>"by the way I'm seing someone new" I'll never forget those 7 words
13:34<npmr>vaxen, those are the bands
13:34<npmr>ben folds five, "song for the dumped" <-- winner
13:35<vaxen>where can I get good music torrents/
13:36<npmr>i don't know
13:36<npmr>i rip cds
13:36<vaxen>someone should do a streaming radio for people who got dumped
13:36<kvandivo>i suspect it's been done, ad infinitum
13:38<vaxen>was thinking of getting this damn debian LAMP running, so i can pen every on a blog
13:38<vaxen>even debian is failing me
13:39<kvandivo>that's not exactly the low-hanging-fruit way of starting a blog
13:39<kvandivo>but, go crazy
13:39<vaxen>atleast i get to pen down my feelings, its very unfortunate that I dont have guy frens that are willing to hear me whine
13:40<vaxen>most of them are too *macho* for it
13:44<kvandivo>ah well.. tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all
13:44<kvandivo>or so they tell me
13:45<vaxen>i beg to differ
13:46<kvandivo>actually, in your current state, your opinion on that subject can't be judged as well thought out
13:46<vaxen>love is such a great drug, once you try it you would anything to get more
13:46<npmr>vaxen, how long has it been?
13:46<kvandivo>i assume you mean that you've been together..
13:46<vaxen>actually i think its 6
13:47<npmr>so, what brings it up now?
13:47<npmr>"someone new"?
13:47<kvandivo>the breakup, i'd reckon
13:47<npmr>or you were together 5 years.... ok, i get it
13:47<vaxen>6 years together, broke up 6months
13:47<vaxen>now there is someone new
13:47[~]npmr nods
13:48<npmr>were you living together?
13:48<npmr>got a new place i hope
13:48<vaxen>i can't image if she brings someone new back home
13:48<vaxen>i'll lose it
13:49<npmr>so she's still in the old place?
13:49<vaxen>nah, she moved back home
13:49<vaxen>and i moved somewhere else
13:50<npmr>barenaked ladies, "the old apartment"
13:50<vaxen>i'll be heading back home in a couple of weeks, i'll prolly bump into her and her new someone
13:50<vaxen>dont look forward to that
13:51<Redgore>I know a song for ya vaxen
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13:51<Redgore>song for the dumped - Ben folds five
13:51<npmr>Redgore, been said
13:52<vaxen>i know mariah carey
13:52<Redgore>npmr: too far up my buffer to notice
13:52<kvandivo>is she nice looking in person?
13:52<npmr>i hear she hates the right side of her face
13:52<kvandivo>she prefers the wrong side?
13:52<npmr>always insists on being photographed from the left
13:53<Flatt>is Michael on?
13:53<vaxen>shes a weird one
13:53<vaxen>but she sure does have nice breast
13:53<kvandivo>Michale Flatt-ly is the lord of the dance
13:54<npmr>vaxen, i'll drink to that
13:54<vaxen>yeah, i need to go and get some beer
13:55<vaxen>but i can't even be bothered to get out of my seat
13:55<@mikegrb>Flatt: hello
13:55<Redgore>vaxen: thats why mini fridges were invented
13:55<Flatt>pm, I guess
13:56<vaxen>mikegrb: did you see the error msg i pasted?
13:56<vaxen>mv /lib/tls didnt work
13:56[~]kvandivo snickers at mikegrb deciding to say something.
13:56<npmr>i had a great phone conversation with an ex-girlfriend once
13:56<npmr>this was about two years after we'd broken up
13:56<kvandivo>did it consist of "Hi. Bye." *click
13:56<npmr>she called and i was in the loo
13:56<@mikegrb>vaxen: the other error you pasted looked like a PATH issue
13:56<npmr>i picked up and she says "i got laid"
13:56<npmr>and i say "i'm pooping"
13:56<vaxen>mikegrb: this is a fresh debian install
13:57<npmr>she says "why did you tell me that?"
13:57<npmr>i asked her the same
13:57<kvandivo>did she say that she thought you'd be happy for her?
13:57<npmr>no, she just laughed
13:58<@mikegrb>vaxen: how are you running dpkg?
13:58<npmr>really broke the deadlock, though
13:58<npmr>up until then, we hadn't really talked much
13:59<vaxen>mikegrb: sorry, i'm a debian newbie. I installed debian, booted, login, apt-get update then apt-get upgrade
13:59<vaxen>apt-get upgrade is the one puking out error
13:59<@mikegrb>as root?
13:59<vaxen>as root
14:00<@mikegrb>would you mind letting me login and try?
14:06<[|^__^|]>Post Mortem
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14:16<vaxen>how do you see what packages are installed in your debian? Where do I find info in the system, where I know what packages are available and their meta info?
14:17<[|^__^|]>dpkg -l
14:19<npmr>apt-cache search <-- to search for packages
14:19<[|^__^|]>yes, but that' not what he asked
14:19<npmr>apt-cache show <-- to show details of a package (installed or not)
14:19<[|^__^|]>oh, available
14:20<[|^__^|]>dpkg -l is just for what's installed on your system
14:20<[|^__^|]>it queries the local installed-package database
14:20<[|^__^|]>apt-cache works on the apt listings
14:20<[|^__^|]>which are the packages available for installation
14:20<[|^__^|]>you don't need root for apt-cache
14:20<[|^__^|]>so for example, you just do "apt-cache search wall"
14:20<[|^__^|]>and then "apt-cache show nwall"
14:21<[|^__^|]>I should go eat lunch
14:21<npmr>yeah, the only time you need root is for apt-get
14:21<[|^__^|]>hence "sagi"
14:22<npmr>or dpkg if you're using it directly to install/remove/purge packages
14:22<[|^__^|]>one at a time
14:22<vaxen>li13-217:~# apt-cache show
14:22<vaxen>E: No packages found
14:22<[|^__^|]>12:20 <[|^__^|]> so for example, you just do "apt-cache search wall"
14:22<[|^__^|]>12:21 <[|^__^|]> and then "apt-cache show nwall"
14:22<npmr>cat /etc/apt/sources.list
14:22<[|^__^|]>^-- vaxen
14:22<[|^__^|]>npmr: [nick@xyzzy(~)] apt-cache show
14:22<[|^__^|]>E: No packages found
14:22<[|^__^|]>that is correct behavior
14:23<npmr>i see
14:24<vaxen>is there a page like for debian?
14:24<[|^__^|]>vaxen: apt-cache search <searchstring>
14:24<[|^__^|]>vaxen: apt-cache show <packagename>
14:25<vaxen>what packages do i need for LAMP?
14:25<[|^__^|]>that depends on what you mean by LAMP
14:25<[|^__^|]>Python? Perl?
14:26<@mikegrb>LAMP expands to php
14:26<[|^__^|]>And do you *really* want MySql, or are you going to use the more sensible Postgres?
14:26<[|^__^|]>mikegrb: oh, that's new
14:26<vaxen>apache2 php mysql
14:26<[|^__^|]>vaxen: is there some application you have in mind?
14:26<@mikegrb>not really
14:26<kvandivo>sudo apt-get install electricity cord socket bulb shade
14:26<[|^__^|]>sudo apt-get install lavaps
14:26<vaxen>[|^__^|]: never used postgres before though
14:27<[|^__^|]>vaxen: it has transactions, which means your data aren't subject to randomness like they are in MySQL
14:27<[|^__^|]>of course, most apps shouldn't be using an SQL server anyway, but I digress
14:27<[|^__^|]>vaxen: install the pieces you need
14:27<vaxen>[|^__^|]: why not?
14:27<[|^__^|]>vaxen: it's needless overhead for most tasks
14:27<kvandivo>!google apache lamp introduction
14:27[~]kvandivo looks around.
14:27<[|^__^|]>!google debian lamp
14:28|-|mode/#linode [+o caker] by ChanServ
14:28<@mikegrb>[|^__^|]: right, and postgres having tansactions is realavent to a comparison why?
14:28<vaxen>[|^__^|]: atleast it helps centralise a storage solution, instead of each app having their own storage format
14:28<[|^__^|]>vaxen: each app has their own table format *anyway*
14:29<kvandivo>would be hard to get around that
14:29<[|^__^|]>mikegrb: I guess if you didn't mind breaking your data, an SQL server without ACID isn't such a big deal
14:29<@mikegrb>kvandivo: two columns, name and value
14:29<[|^__^|]>there are lots of good simple formats out there
14:29<@mikegrb>[|^__^|]: so you just ignore that mysql supports transactions to make you choice better?
14:30<[|^__^|]>oh, did they add that?
14:30<[|^__^|]>and it's not my choice
14:30<[|^__^|]>I hate postgres
14:30<@mikegrb>long long long time ago
14:30<[|^__^|]>I hate SQL servers
14:30<[|^__^|]>well that's good
14:30|-|linbot [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:30<[|^__^|]>vaxen: please, use the SQL behemoth of your choice
14:30<[|^__^|]>vaxen: I'm sure you won't miss the RAM
14:30<vaxen>what is php4-mysql for? Never heard of it in gentoo
14:30<[|^__^|]>it's the mysql functions for php
14:31<vaxen>[|^__^|]: wordpress needs sql server
14:31<[|^__^|]>debian has finer granularity of packages
14:31<[|^__^|]>vaxen: yeah, that's why i make my one wordpress user connect to an offsite DB
14:31<[|^__^|]>I use pyblosxom, and it uses directories and text files
14:31<[|^__^|]>simple, elegant, generated from cron
14:31<[|^__^|]>static web pages for speed and efficiency
14:31|-|linbot [] has joined #linode
14:32<[|^__^|]>and no goddamn SQL
14:32<[|^__^|]>okay, lunchtime
14:32<[|^__^|]>oh yeah
14:33<[|^__^|]>and if what you wanted was wordpress
14:33<[|^__^|]>you should have just done 'sudo apt-get install wordpress' and let apt work out the rest
14:33<[|^__^|]>Depends: apache | httpd, php4 | libapache2-mod-php4, php4-mysql, virtual-mysql-server
14:33|-|[|^__^|] changed nick to kthxbi
14:34<vaxen>kthxbi: no wordpress for sarge
14:34|-|LJ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:34[~]kthxbi shrugs
14:37<vaxen>there is no mod_security too
14:37<kvandivo>bah.. mod security is only for the weak who don't trust their ability to secure things themselves
14:38<@caker>what does mod security do, anyway?
14:38<@mikegrb>caker: watches form submissions for sql injection attacts
14:39<@mikegrb>that sort of thing
14:39<vaxen>good question
14:39<@caker>what if I have a forum about SQL?
14:39<kvandivo>why would you ever want to have that?
14:39<@caker>or or or ...
14:39|-|Redgore [~Redgore@] has quit [Quit: A geek without purpose - | SMDC-Network IRC -]
14:39<vaxen>caker: i'm sure its smarter then that
14:39<@caker>maybe my name is "INSERT INTO"
14:40|-|Redgore [~Redgore@] has joined #linode
14:40<@mikegrb>* caker is now known as SELECT
14:41<vaxen>how does debian handle /etc/init.d? gentoo has rc-update
14:42<@mikegrb>you can make symlinks yourself
14:42<@mikegrb>or there is a curses interface
14:42<@mikegrb>probably command line too
14:43<vaxen>does debian start everything in /etc/init.d when it boots?
14:44<@mikegrb>stuff in /etc/rc.<runlevel>
14:44<@mikegrb>which are symlinks to /etc/init.d
14:44<@mikegrb>er, rc<runlevel>.d
14:45<vaxen>7 different runlevels
14:46<vaxen>rc.1-5 is the same
14:46<vaxen>whats the point of having so many runlevels?
14:46<npmr>the default in debian is runlevel 2
14:47<npmr># Runlevel 0 is halt.
14:47<npmr># Runlevel 1 is single-user.
14:47<npmr># Runlevels 2-5 are multi-user.
14:47<npmr># Runlevel 6 is reboot.
14:47<vaxen>but why 2-5?
14:47<vaxen>wouldnt one be enough
14:48<npmr>generally, yes
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14:49<vaxen>does debian testing do security updates?
14:49<vaxen>i think i might move to testing, since there is wordpress mod_security etc
14:49<npmr>deb stable/updates main
14:50|-|ravsi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:52<vaxen>npmr: do you run testing?
14:52<npmr>i did before sarge was released
14:52<vaxen>given debian is so concern about stability, i assume testing shouild be pretty rock solid
14:52<npmr>it generally is
14:53<npmr>it not entirely accurate, but here goes:
14:53<vaxen>gentoo unstable is real unstable
14:53<npmr>stabile, secure, up-to-date
14:53<npmr>pick two
14:53<vaxen>secure up2date
14:54<npmr>then you want debian unstable
14:54<vaxen>thats too dodgy for me
14:54[~]mikegrb uses it
14:54<vaxen>testing will do for me
14:54<@mikegrb>it really isn't as dodgy as the name implies
14:54<npmr>actually, debian unstable is usually as or more stable than the release versions of other distros
14:55<@mikegrb>can't remember the last time I had a problem
14:55<npmr>it's only "unstable" compared to debian's release
14:55<@mikegrb>it will be significantly more stable then gentoo
14:56<vaxen>i am starting to get pissed off with gentoo's QA
14:56<vaxen>some of the developers really donno what they are doing
14:56<npmr>i tried gentoo once
14:57<vaxen>the only reason i use it becoz its configurable and its faster then other distros
14:57<@mikegrb>faster is an illusion
14:57<vaxen>actually, ubuntu is just as fast as gentoo to my experience
14:57<@mikegrb>the binaries really aren't appreciably faster
14:57<@mikegrb>plus you waste a lot of time compiling stuff, so it ends up being slower
14:58<npmr>painting fire on the side of a car makes it about as much faster, relative to other cars, as "optimizing" your binaries for your machine makes them relative to other binaries
14:58<vaxen>npmr: nice way of putting it
14:59<@caker>There's a good reason for this -->
14:59<vaxen>is debian unstable as up to date as gentoo?
15:00<@mikegrb>vaxen: pretty close, they will both be ahead of the other in some things
15:00<vaxen>dinner time
15:02<kthxbi>technically "unstable" doesn't mean "unstable software". It just means that the version numbers don't stay stable for years at a time
15:05<fo0bar>well, sid can be unstable at times... but it's generally fine to use sid
15:05<kthxbi>I used testing when I wanted fresh software
15:05<kthxbi>on account of those once-a-year-OMFG-nobody-dist-upgrade events that used to happen
15:05<kthxbi>and everyone would say "Oh this NEVER happens!"
15:06<fo0bar>oh, kthxbi == [|^__^|]
15:06<fo0bar>we've had this discussion many times before :)
15:07<kvandivo>caker: graphs like that really need a timestamp
15:08|-|kthxbi changed nick to \begin{troll}
15:10<fo0bar>I dunno, caker's original timestamp worked rather well
15:10<fo0bar>$ HEAD | grep Last-Modified:
15:10<fo0bar>Last-Modified: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:10:19 GMT
15:11<kvandivo>well, what i was really wanting was a key on the graph itself that included the date
15:11<kvandivo>but filename tricks are suitable as well
15:29<SupaZubon>fo0bar: what is HEAD?
15:30<SupaZubon>fo0bar: some wget alias?
15:32<@mikegrb>comes with lwp
15:33<@mikegrb>it is perl stuffs
15:45<linbot>New news from forums: MRTG graphs in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
15:47|-|linville [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:47<linbot>You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
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15:55<@mikegrb>that much is true
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16:52|-|GN [] has joined #linode
16:52<@caker>GN: hola
16:53<GN>caker, que pasa?
16:56<GN>i see you have the holiday decor up :)
16:59<kvandivo>you know.. the word Holiday comes from Holy Day, so you're being quite politically incorrect by using that terminology
17:00[~]kvandivo continues listening to the Christmas song O Come All Ye Faithful done via saxaphone as he types.
17:02<GN>merry christmas kvandivo
17:08<kevinl>is the storage meter thingee broken? mine says 100%, which isnt true
17:08<kvandivo>that's allocated.. not necessarily an indication of how much of the partition you are using that you've already allocated
17:08<kevinl>oh :)
17:09[~]GN nods
17:09<kvandivo>Merry Christmas, kevinl!!
17:09<kevinl>merry christmas!
17:10<kevinl>too bad ive been disconnected from my linode.
17:10<kevinl>looks like something on my company's stupid network
17:10<GN>hmm I too am getting connection failures
17:12<kevinl>uh oh!
17:12<GN>but mine is from the linode out
17:12<kevinl>im getting intermittent ping replies to
17:12<kevinl>but i dunno if its on my side or not
17:13<kevinl>i can traceroute from my company's network
17:13<GN>and it's sporadic, leading me to believe it's the server I'm connecting to
17:17|-|jcdanky [~jcdanky@] has joined #linode
17:17<jcdanky>Hey guys... I have a couple presales questions
17:17[~]kevinl just signed up yesterday
17:19<jcdanky>I have been thinking about getting a dedicated server with They run about $90/month. I am in the middle of running a small webhosting business. Does anyone here use Linode to run their webhosting businesses? If so would there be any downfalls to virtual vs. dedicated that you know of?
17:20<\begin{troll}> <-- Several people were injured shooting the sword-fighting scenes due to the ferocious nature of the actress Z Behl.
17:22<npmr>jcdanky, what applications do you use for your hosting?
17:22<kevinl>how often are reverse dns edits made?
17:22<jcdanky>cpanel, whm
17:22<npmr>kevinl, the reverse dns zones are updated a few times each day, if that's what you mean
17:23<jcdanky>i would like to use sitestudio hence why I need dedicated or virtual
17:23<kevinl>eek sitestudio L)
17:23<kevinl>my old work ran that.. it was a piece of crap imo
17:23<jcdanky>oh yah?
17:23|-|bendy24 [] has joined #linode
17:23<jcdanky>know of anything better?
17:23<npmr>no, i mean, what are the workhorses of your operation, not what tools do you use to manage it
17:23<linbot>... but i mean, what are you going to do with 16581373 hosts in a single network, npmr ...
17:24<kevinl>i dunno. what i could tell is that once you start your site in sitestudio you cant really go in and edit anything or else itll break
17:24<npmr>apache i presume
17:24<kevinl>so your confined completely to teh sitestudio templates
17:24<kevinl>which are pretty ug.
17:24<jcdanky>im wanting it basically for users who don't know anything about html
17:24<jcdanky> is my site
17:24<kevinl>have you ever used it?
17:25<kevinl> which is where i used to work used it for customers who didnt know html
17:25<kevinl>and i had to support it
17:25<kevinl>and i knew nothing about it
17:25<kevinl>and i hated it.
17:25<kevinl>maybe its good
17:25<kevinl>i just hated it.
17:26<kevinl>is it free or commercial?
17:26<kvandivo>your speed test isn't large enough for me to get read on
17:26<kevinl>i dont even remember
17:26<kvandivo>by the time i click on 'ok' save it.. it's already down
17:26<kevinl>do they let you try it yourself?
17:26<jcdanky>you have to install it though
17:27<jcdanky>i can't cuz im on a shared hosting account
17:27<jcdanky>so i don't have root access
17:27<kevinl>well get a linode then :)
17:27<jcdanky>does anyone here use linode for hosting?
17:27<jcdanky>like selling hosting
17:27<jcdanky>their gb is very low compared to dedicated
17:28<kevinl>i just got mine yesterday
17:28<jcdanky>i can get 1200gb/mo for $90/mo with surpass
17:28<jcdanky>theirs is completely managed as well
17:28<kevinl>ya im hoping i dont use up my bandwidth
17:28<jcdanky>although i assume it wouldn't be hard to do myself though
17:28<kevinl>im just messin around tho with the cheapest one
17:28<jcdanky>im pretty good at learning
17:30<jcdanky>how about firewalls and stuff?
17:30<kevinl>what about em
17:30|-|jcdanky [~jcdanky@] has quit [Quit: jcdanky]
17:39|-|GN [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:54<linbot>New news from forums: MRTG graphs in Feature Request/Bug Report <> || Pro rated Refund & Cancellation in Sales Questions and Answers <> || Host 51 Kernel Panic in System and Network Status <> || Questions of Allowing External Access to Apache Web Server in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <http:
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18:45<moWser>anyone using mod_mbox on apache with debian sarge?
18:46<@caker>why GRUB .. why?!
18:50<internat>i dont know, dont like grub myusef
18:52<@caker>I love PXE (network) booting machines .. it's saved my ass so many times
18:52<@caker>unfortunately, Xen requires some hackery to boot under PXE
18:52<@caker>anyways .. on some of my more recent machines, GRUB is very, very picky
18:52<internat>i like pxe its nice
18:52<@caker>it refuses to boot if the /boot partition has any of the RHEL ext3 extensions (inode_resize, etc)
18:53<@caker>but now, a clean install of debian's version of grub (remade the /boot ext3 partition, installed grub, etc) GRUB hangs with ZERO output
18:55|-|moWser [] has quit [Quit: [BX] Captain Kangaroo uses BitchX. Shouldn't you?]
18:57<vaxen>caker: clean the mbr first then reinstall grub?
19:01<vaxen>testing (kde): the K Desktop Environment official modules
19:01<vaxen>5:45: all
19:01<vaxen>got this from
19:01<vaxen>what does 5:45: mean?
19:04<vaxen>i thought it is version number, since when kde have 5:45
19:08|-|adamg [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:26<darkbeholder>has anyone else been having problems where its hit and miss on connecting to their linode, for the past 2 or 3 days i have noticed that pages randomly wont come up and that connections to the mail server time out
19:27<@mikegrb>have a traceroute?
19:28<@mikegrb>or better, output of "mtr --report"
19:28<darkbeholder>i have a tracert from my home to my linode
19:29<darkbeholder>and i dont know what mtr is (and my linode said command not found)
19:29<@mikegrb>needs to be installed
19:30<@mikegrb>apt-get install mtr
19:32|-|vaxen [~vaxen@] has joined #linode
19:47<darkbeholder>mike i'll get back to u with the mrt output later, i have to go out for a bit
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20:06[~]tronix shoots a very dirty look at the Linux 2.6 OOM killer -- craptastic code at times
20:06<tronix>no relation to Linode. :)
20:07<tronix>though, I *am* wondering why my host27 Linode sessions has locked up
20:07<tronix>when traceroute indicates the host is up
20:08[~]tronix hmms.
20:08|-|emcnabb [~emcnabb@] has joined #linode
20:10<tronix>very...weird. console works, can write messages, see them show up, but I can't *do* anything with ssh sessions. hmm.
20:10<tronix>tokens full, load low, no i/o activity, etc
20:10[~]tronix wanders off to poke some more
20:25<tronix>ahh, I see why.
20:25<tronix>55%+ packet loss
20:25<tronix>someone DoS'ing host27? :)
20:26<tronix>traceroutes looks ok, just a lot of packet loss. suck.
20:30|-|thoth39 [~hm@] has joined #linode
20:31<tronix>cleared up. guess someone finally got tired of launching a silly DoS somewhere. :-)
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20:52<linbot>New news from forums: A few questions in Sales Questions and Answers <>
21:01|-|adamg [] has joined #linode
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21:30|-|thoth39 [~hm@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
---Logclosed Wed Dec 07 21:35:01 2005
---Logopened Wed Dec 07 21:35:36 2005
21:35|-|mikegrb [] has joined #linode
21:35|-|Ekipa kanalu #linode: Wszystkich: 59 |-| +op [1] |-| +voice [0] |-| normalnych [58]
21:35|-|mode/#linode [+o mikegrb] by ChanServ
21:35<ronpoz> 15 50 ms 229 ms 226 ms []
21:35<ronpoz> 16 127 ms 210 ms 239 ms []
21:35<ronpoz> 17 48 ms 47 ms 47 ms []
21:35<ronpoz> 18 * * * Request timed out.
21:35<ronpoz> 19 57 ms * * []
21:35<ronpoz> 20 * * 55 ms []
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21:35<tronix>traceroute looks ok but ping shows the story
21:36|-|mikethegrb [~michael@] has joined #linode
21:36|-|Kanal #linode zsynchronizowany w 58 sekundy
21:36<tronix>0% packet loss when I ping the upstream TP router, but heavy packet loss when I hit multiple Linodes
21:36<tronix>50-75% loss
21:36<@mikegrb>tronix: mtr >> traceroute
21:36<@mikegrb>or ping
21:36<@mikegrb>it's like a cross between the two
21:36<tronix>true, ping just helps as a rough first order estimate :)
21:37<tronix>seeing atrocious perf, can use other tools to pinpoint
21:37<@mikegrb>appears to be resolved
21:37<tronix>it was, a hour ago, too
21:37<tronix>I wonder if it's a DDoS cron job that kicks off at :30 :P
21:38<cmantito>so the linode never actually went down...
21:38<cmantito>makes sense
21:38[~]cmantito curses tiredness
21:38<interferon>so...what happened?
21:38<internat>yes iw as wondering the same thing
21:39|-|caker [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:39<@mikegrb>probably a dos
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21:44<internat>always a fun thingg
21:45|-|mode/#linode [+o linbot] by ChanServ
21:45<cmantito>I hate assholes =/
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22:19[~]tronix wonders if it's time for that DoS cron job to execute
22:20<tronix>(seeing packet loss at moment,a bout 50%)
22:21<@caker>tronix: to what IP?
22:22<@caker>tronix: looks good here
22:22<tronix>when I ping a TP router, 0% loss
22:22<@caker>tronix: what does mtr/traceroute
22:23<@caker>look like?
22:23<tronix>but any Linode at TP, 50-75% loss
22:23<tronix>one sec
22:23<tronix>trying to find out how to force mtr to using v4 :)
22:23<@caker>tronix: different subnets take different routes
22:23<tronix>(my v6 tunnel is broken due to a bug)
22:23<@caker>tronix: this is likely an issue along a route elsewhere
22:23<tronix>ah, -4.. one sec
22:23<tronix>caker: unlikely because
22:23<cmantito>agh. mtr is gui.
22:23<cmantito>didn't expect that
22:23<tronix>folks saw same thing a hour ago
22:24<tronix>multiple linodes, multiple folks
22:24<@caker>tronix: that was something else
22:24<tronix>okay.. mtr, one sec
22:24<tronix>looks like it cleared up.
22:24<tronix>go figure. ;)
22:24<tronix>cmantito: actually, I've got mtr running in text mode
22:25<tronix>looks slick, agreed.
22:25<@caker>ping is pretty much useless when trying to find the point of the problem, honestly
22:25[~]cmantito tries text mode
22:25<tronix>caker: it's not bad as a first order estimator
22:25<@caker>traceroute is second to pings, but mtr++
22:25<cmantito>oh wow
22:25<cmantito>that is slick.
22:25<@caker>pings don't tell me crap
22:26<@caker>"ok, so it's got packet loss somewhere between you and the IP"
22:26<@caker>it could be one of 100 hops
22:26<tronix>caker: yeah but if you matches it with traceroute :)
22:26<cmantito>I get packet loss between me and
22:26<@caker>I'm not buying :)
22:26<cmantito>my router :)
22:27<tronix>caker: which is essentially what mtr does. find path then check characteristics of each.
22:27<tronix>mtr is more integrated and a better tool, agreed.
22:27<tronix>but saying that ping doesn't have value as a rough 'is there even an issue, maybe?' first-order look
22:27<@caker>and a traceroute only goes through/displays each hop ONCE, and at that time, there might not be a problem
22:27<@caker>I just don't bother with either anymore, I go straight to mtr ..
22:27<tronix>yeah, looks slick.
22:28<tronix>cmantito: heh, didn't know it *had* a gui mode
22:28[~]tronix goes to check it out
22:29<cmantito>tronix: happened by default for me
22:29<cmantito>maybe cause I'm running X
22:29<tronix>i am too
22:29<tronix>apparently my setup just defaults to text, probably a Gentoo thing
22:29<tronix>ahh I didn't build with GTK support
22:29<tronix>correcting that right now. ;)
22:30<tronix>probably gotta remember to run 'mtr -t -4' for time being, til I get my v6 tunnel fixed
22:30<tronix>apparently, I discovered a new Cisco v6 bug.
22:31<tronix>(on my provider's side)
22:31<tronix>thanks caker/mikegrb for mtr recommendation
22:32<cmantito>thanks a LOT.
22:32<cmantito>it's great.
22:33<@caker>thank mikegrb... I think it was him that turned me onto it
22:33<@caker>another cool tool is tcptraceroute
22:33<@caker>It'll tell you where along a route a certain TCP port is blocked (for instance)
22:33<tronix>ooh that's a good one, too.
22:33<tronix>also handy when a site's blocked icmp
22:34[~]cmantito pacman -S's that one too.
22:38|-|internat [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
22:39<cmantito>not in the sync db
22:39[~]cmantito compiles
22:40<cmantito>that is cool
22:57<@caker>!calc 40 * 55
22:57<@linbot>caker: 40 * 55 = 2,200
22:58<@caker>hah .. over a ton of servers :)
22:58<@caker>well, google says "one short ton = 2 000 pounds" whatever that means
22:59|-|VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
22:59|-|VS_ChanLog [] has joined #linode
22:59<@caker>one long ton = 2 240 pounds
22:59<@caker>either way, We've got a ton of servers, literally!
22:59<JasonF>I was always told a ton is 2k lbs
22:59[~]caker flexes
23:05[~]mikethegrb bends caker
23:09|-|mikethegrb [~michael@] has quit [Quit: You all come back now, ya here?]
23:10<irgeek>caker: Can linbot still do weather lookups? Last time I asked he didn't know my local airport code.
23:11<chris>!weather 43065
23:11<@linbot>chris: The current temperature in Dublin, OH is 11\xB0F. Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Wind: N at 4 mph (6 km/h).
23:11<chris>Though, 43065 is not dublin
23:11<chris>and wow, my weather sucks
23:12<@mikegrb>!weather kpns
23:12<@mikegrb>!weather pns
23:12<JasonF>!weather 27597
23:12<@linbot>JasonF: The current temperature in Bunn, NC is 31\xB0F. Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Wind: NE at 0 mph (0 km/h).
23:12<@mikegrb>!weather 32504
23:12<JasonF>bunn?!? wtf
23:13<@linbot>mikegrb: The current temperature in Gonzalez, FL is 52\xB0F. Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 74%. Wind: E at 13 mph (21 km/h).
23:13<JasonF>!weather RDU
23:13<JasonF>it doesn't know my place :(
23:13<JasonF>!weather raleigh
23:13<@mikegrb>it is rather borked
23:13<JasonF>!weather 27510
23:13<@linbot>JasonF: The current temperature in Chapel Hill, NC is 33\xB0F. Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 78%. Wind: CLM at 0 mph (0 km/h).
23:13<JasonF>no! not chapel hill
23:13<JasonF>!weather 27501
23:13<@linbot>JasonF: The current temperature in Lillington, NC is 34\xB0F. Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 84%. Wind: NNE at 0 mph (0 km/h).
23:13<JasonF>!weather 27555
23:13<@linbot>JasonF: The current temperature in Selma, NC is 35\xB0F. Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Wind: ENE at 0 mph (0 km/h).
23:13<@mikegrb>!weather pensacola, fl
23:13<@linbot>mikegrb: The current temperature in Pensacola, FL is 54\xB0F. Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 66%. Wind: ENE at 14 mph (23 km/h).
23:13<JasonF>!weather Raleigh, NC
23:13<@linbot>JasonF: The current temperature in Raleigh, NC is 34\xB0F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 69%. Wind: ENE at 3 mph (5 km/h).
23:15<irgeek>!weather den
23:15<irgeek>!weather 80203
23:15<@linbot>irgeek: The current temperature in Denver, CO is -13\xB0F. Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 78%. Wind: S at 8 mph (13 km/h).
23:16<irgeek>I think I win the cold weather award. Yay!
23:17<JasonF>!weather anchorage, Alaska
23:17<JasonF>!weather anchorage, Ak
23:17<@linbot>JasonF: The current temperature in Anchorage, AK is 34\xB0F. Conditions: Cloudy. Humidity: 92%. Wind: W at 10 mph (16 km/h).
23:18<@caker>host48:~# uname -a
23:18<@caker>Linux #1 SMP Tue Dec 6 05:00:19 EST 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
23:18<@caker>^-- Xen-3.0.0 :)
23:18<@caker>under Debian, too
23:19<SupaZubon>is the beta back in town?
23:19<@caker>SupaZubon: soon
23:19<@caker>gotta run through a few things first
---Logclosed Thu Dec 08 00:00:20 2005