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#linode IRC Logs for 2008-03-16

---Logopened Sun Mar 16 00:00:01 2008
---Daychanged Sun Mar 16 2008
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00:03-!-mariorz was kicked from #linode by linbot [BANG!]
00:03*linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
00:03<@linbot>mwalling: *click*
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00:06<mjsotn>hmm ok so am about to rsync this FS over ... I was planning to use -a -h -r -s did I leave anything out do you think?
00:13<JasonF>rsync -a is enough.
00:13<JasonF>a implies rsh, iirc
00:16<DennisTT>Question: How do I make a backup of a disk image?
00:16<mjsotn>-a does not include -h
00:16<mjsotn>well that's what the man page says
00:17<mwalling>DennisTT: cp?
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00:17<mjsotn>DennisTT if you only used half your allocated space you could clone it.
00:17<DennisTT>Is it the duplicate image button?
00:18<bd_>Supposedly LVM snapshots are coming Real Soon Now(tm) too
00:18<@caker>however, snapshot != backup
00:19<@caker>neither is disk duplicate, either, really (on the same host)
00:19<JasonF>lvm snapshots are Already Here(tm)
00:19<DennisTT>Or is there a way to download the current disk image?
00:20<DennisTT>Scratch that thought
00:25<DennisTT>Ok what's the recommended way to 'backup data'
00:26<mwalling>00:17 < mwalling> DennisTT: cp?
00:26<@caker>rsync, rdiff-backup, tar+gzip/bzip+scp, etc, etc
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00:27<DennisTT><mwalling> 00:17 < mwalling> DennisTT: cp?
00:27*caker starts backuping
00:27<JasonF>00:27 < DennisTT> <mwalling> 00:17 < mwalling> DennisTT: cp?
00:27<DennisTT>Ok I only got my linode today >.>
00:27<DennisTT>So if I have enough space for another disk image
00:28<@caker>DennisTT: if the host catches on fire, what then?
00:28<DennisTT>I can click 'duplicate image' and that would essentially make a backup of my current configuration right?
00:28<JasonF>DennisTT: that's not a real backup
00:28<JasonF>DennisTT: read the thread in the forums about s3
00:28<@caker>DennisTT: in my opinion, a backup implies an off site copy
00:28<JasonF>cheep and real backups
00:28<@caker>or at least, off machine
00:29<DennisTT>So would the right word be snapshot then?
00:29<@caker>you want a snapshot so you can roll back, or a true backup?
00:30<DennisTT>yeah roll back
00:30*caker is still suspicious
00:31<@caker>that you are sure what you want (or that I'm sure what you're asking, really) :)
00:31<DennisTT>Ok I want to save the current image of the disk, so that if I install something and I screw up I can go back to the working image
00:32<DennisTT>Does that make it more clear? lol
00:32<mwalling>System Restore
00:32<@caker>yes... a "disk duplicate" would work for the very short term, but it's still not a backup
00:33<@caker>You'll eventually (soon) want to copy your goods off to a remote location (like your home box, or another Linode)
00:33<@caker>You have been warned.
00:33<DennisTT>ok and for that I use rsync or those things you listed right?
00:34<@caker>yes, or other options
00:34<Pryon>I suppose I should consider doing backups
00:35<DennisTT>Ok thanks caker
00:36<@caker>New policy: random Linode deletion
00:36*caker knows that someday, he will eat those words
00:39<DennisTT>BTW the Linode control panel is amazing
00:39<DennisTT>nice work
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00:40<Pryon>No, no sweet-talking. He's gonna start blowing away our linodes!
00:46<Talman>If my image is detonated in the next five minutes, I think just about everything is safe.
00:46*Talman hasn't tested restore from S3 yet.
00:47<mwalling>i'm going to rsync to my house...
00:47<mwalling>now that i have real internet and all
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01:33<mwalling>finally got one of my desktops set up
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04:12<jagga>hi 2 all
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07:51<encode>SpaceHobo: really?
07:51<encode>it might be fun
07:51<encode>or something else
07:52<encode>hmm, the site doesn't make much sense in elinks
07:52<encode>and theres no way i'm opening it in anything else
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07:57<Peng>Ha! I live for danger! /me opens it in Firefox.
07:58<Peng>SpaceHobo: I dunno. It's Cyrillic. Not a rickroll though.
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08:11<sobersabre>guys, I'm trying to register on linode. it says "no free email provider please".
08:11<sobersabre>Is gmail ok ?!
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08:33<sobersabre>why doubtful ?
08:33<sobersabre>SpaceHobo: are you a Linode worker ?
08:33<chesty>how much did you pay for your gmail account?
08:34<sobersabre>the same amount i've paid for my work email.
08:34<sobersabre>so, can't I give my work email ?
08:34<sobersabre>chesty: are you employee or just assuming ?
08:34<chesty>i imagine it's an identity thing, not an employee, no, just being a smart arse ;)
08:35<JDLSpeedy>caker, mikegrb, tasaro are the staff of this operation
08:35<sobersabre>chesty: for Identity is something verified by paper faxing.
08:35<sobersabre>or phone call.
08:35<sobersabre>anyway thanks for the response... keep up the good work of making some net traffic.
08:36<sobersabre>caker: are you up ?
08:39<encode>its really the wrong time of day for caker to be up
08:39<encode>especially on the weekend
08:39<encode>maybe in a few hours?
08:39<sobersabre>guys, what is more eastern: georgia or texas ?
08:40<Peng>The Atlanta data center blocks more ports than the others though, including 6667.
08:40<Peng>Inbound and outbound.
08:40<sobersabre>i don't care.
08:40<sobersabre>where is the cable to europe ?
08:41<sobersabre>is it closer to atalnta or dallas ?
08:41<Peng>sobersabre: You could do tests yourself.
08:42<Peng>Hold on.
08:42<sobersabre>I don't know al the details, but maybe you checked that and the answer would take you 1 sec.
08:42<sobersabre>can you give me atlanta host IP and Dallas host IP ?
08:42<sobersabre>I'd check the routes.
08:43<Peng>Yeah, there's a forum thread with that information (and test files to download), but I never have a link to it.
08:43<Peng>Somewhere on .
08:43<sobersabre>thanks Peng
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08:44<Hobbsee>!google linode speed test
08:44<@linbot>Hobbsee: Search took 0.18 seconds: Linode .com Forum :: View topic - Download File Speed Test: <>; Linode .com Forum :: Download File Speed Test: <>; Just got rolling with a VPS on Linode (Part 2) | <>; Linode Vs.. SliceHost Vs. ServerAxis (3 more messages)
08:44<Hobbsee>sobersabre: first link
08:45<Peng>I just got it.
08:45<Peng>And I knew I should have tried Google.
08:45<sobersabre>Hobbsee: thanks1
08:45<sobersabre>Hobbsee: thanks!
08:45<Hobbsee>you're welcome
08:47<sobersabre>I would like to test routes from my location to atlanta and dallas.
08:47<sobersabre>is there a "known" host for
08:48<sobersabre>both locations ?
08:48<Hobbsee>how does that help?
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08:49<sobersabre>I could see how many hops I run until I reach.
08:49<sobersabre>this can tell me what latency I shall expect.
08:49<sobersabre>and what routers I can expect to be problematic at somepoint.
08:49<Hobbsee>the hosts all in the same DC....
08:50<Hobbsee>so shouldn't the latency be the same for each of the hosts?
08:50<sobersabre>I need host from Dallas.
08:50<sobersabre>and ahost from Texas
08:50<sobersabre>they will have diff. routes.
08:51*Peng points out that Dallas is in Texas?
08:51<Hobbsee>sobersabre: the IP of that machine is - can you use that instead?
08:51*Hobbsee still is failing to see how sobersabre will find it helpful, but...
08:51<sobersabre>is this atlanta ?
08:51<Hobbsee>no, that's dallas
08:51<Hobbsee>(found by host)
08:51<sobersabre>any such in atlanta ?
08:52<Hobbsee>use host on the atlanta host listed there to get that IP
08:53<sobersabre>I am at the stage of choice where to put the linode.
08:53<sobersabre>so I maybe am not familiar with all the terms you use,
08:53<sobersabre>like "host listed there"
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08:55<Peng>sobersabre: You can use the websites that the forum thread lists.
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09:10<sobersabre>Peng: I went for georgia.
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10:19<SystemFAILURE>Anybody noticed a fuckup of the bandwidth on Dallas ? (i'm running on Xen host117.dallas)
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11:57<Schroeder>GUESS WHAT TODAY IS!
11:57<purrdeta>did you make a macro for that or something
11:57<Pryon>st. patrick's day eve!
11:57<purrdeta>said it exactly the same time in 3 channels I was in lol
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11:59<Schroeder>From the Bristol Motor Speedway in Bristol,'s the FOOD CITY 500!
11:59<Schroeder>purrdeta: it's called /amsg
12:00<purrdeta>its called mass spam.
12:00<mwalling>purrdeta: its Schroeder ... its /ignore :)
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13:05<jagga>dear friends)
13:05<jagga>i have som trouble in work with php arrays
13:05<jagga>maybe someone can help me?
13:06<jagga>just stupid func. witch randomly choose 10 arrays from 400
13:06<cruxeter1us>jagga: try #php on Freenode :)
13:07<jagga>just do it for 4 yours)
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13:30<Schroeder>mmm...Bob Sanders:
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14:04<webPragmatist>Schroeder: wow i fell asleep half way through that video
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16:44<sobersabre>I have some questions. I see I have "create a new conf. profile.", new "disk image" or "distro wizard".
16:44<sobersabre>what's the diff between them ?
16:44<sobersabre>I want to install a stable debian distro.
16:44<sobersabre>I want to manually partition the hard disk in my convenient way.
16:44<sobersabre>what option shall I choose ?
16:44<sobersabre>is there a manual ?
16:46<sobersabre>ok, I've found WiKi.
16:46<erikh>congrtulations! you've found a +1 Wiki of Enlightenment
16:56<sobersabre>I don't see how can I partition my linode before installation.
16:57<sobersabre>is it possible to have partitions for /home, swap, / , /tmp and /var partitions ?
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17:01<encode>sobersabre: basically, deploy the linode image with the space you want for / (and also configure swap)
17:01<encode>then, before booting, you can create additional disks
17:01<encode>and assign them to your linode's profile
17:01<encode>by editing that profile in the web interface
17:02<sobersabre>encode: all I have now is the "web interface". so you say, I am doing a smaller / partition, and then after I've added some configuration details, options to add additional partitions (which you refer to as "disks") will appear.
17:03<sobersabre>right ?
17:03<encode>once you've deployed the initial image, you'll return to the dashboard page
17:04<encode>click on the link associated with that profile
17:04<sobersabre>I have another q. I don't know if it's in the faq.
17:04<encode>(something like My <distro> profile)
17:04<sobersabre>I will use Debian.
17:04<encode>and you can set your drives (basically your /etc/fstab) in that profile
17:04<sobersabre>is there a "local" == free, no "traffic costs" internal to linode mirror of Debian ?
17:05<encode>there is no linode mirror of any distro
17:05<encode>but you get so much bandwidth with your linode, why would you need one?
17:05<sobersabre>so, daily apt-get upgrade can actually be very costy..
17:05<erikh>man, if you manage to cap out your bandwidth getting debian packages, you've got a problem
17:05<encode>not really. it's not like debian release many GBs of packages eveyr day
17:06<encode>erikh: heh. so true
17:06<erikh>heh, most likely a problem with the debian server maintainers nullrouting your ass for leeching
17:06<sobersabre>I don't have the "feel" of how much the cap is capping me YET. but I need to daily backup the system. aye ? so it's 1-2 hundreds of MB daily.
17:07<sobersabre>ok, assuming I have a smart backup soft., it will do the differential backup.
17:07<erikh>sobersabre: to give you an idea, if I don't make an explicit attempt to see how much traffic I can snake before it resets, my backups + administration + mail/web services never bumps my cap above 0%
17:08<Peng>What happens if you go over your bandwidth limit?
17:08<erikh>heh, no idea.
17:08<encode>heh, Ive used 9% of my bandwidth, which includes daily backups, and quite a few large file transfers
17:09<encode>its pretty unlikely that you'll use your bandwidth cap, unless you get DoS'd or something
17:09<Peng>Yeah, but I'm still curious.
17:10<erikh>ask caker when he's around. my experience with linode has been, you say "ack ack! I don't want to get shut off!" and they'll say, "let's work it out"
17:10<sobersabre>I am planning to use the linode for: 1. web app devel, 2. svn of all the relevant code/conf, 3. mail/communication-ldap etc.
17:10<erikh>as opposed to "here's my middle finger, that work for you?"
17:10<Peng>Eww, svn.
17:10<sobersabre>I am planning to backup it all daily.
17:10<Peng>erikh: Heh, that sounds ok. :)
17:11<encode>sobersabre: as long as you're doing differentials, and not full backups, i don'
17:11<encode>t see how you'll come close to your bandwidth cap
17:16<sobersabre>sounds ok.
17:16<sobersabre>nice actually.
17:16<sobersabre>do linode guys plan to expand and take over the world some day ?
17:16<erikh>I think so
17:17<sobersabre>I would recommend them to.
17:17<@mikegrb>mmm cake
17:17<sveiss>if they do, would it be free cake for all?
17:19<Schroeder>once again, the transgressions of cheaters has cost Tony Stewart a rightful win
17:20<webPragmatist>in order to take over the world you must allow us no bandwidth restrictions
17:20<webPragmatist>like vpsfarm :)
17:26<encode>thats pretty foolish, and just asking to be exploited
17:27<encode>bandwidth costs real money, something that has to factor into the business model somehow
17:27<encode>if vpsfarm can offer unlimited bandwidth, then they're cutting corners somewhere else
17:27<erikh>if they globally cap
17:27<erikh>then the guys who aren't running torrents all day lose
17:28<Peng>Seems vpsFarm offers X mbps.
17:28<Peng>1 mbps for the $20 plan. That kind of sucks.
17:29<erikh>yeah, considering between this last message and this one I downloaded over 260 .debs
17:29<erikh>and I typed slow
17:32<encode>also considering that i've successfully transferred files from my linode to other external sites in the order of 5MBytes/sec
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19:08<sobersabre>what kind of hardware IPS or IDS or load balancing can linode offer as of .. now + 1/2 year ?
19:08<sobersabre>any ideas ?
19:09<sobersabre>I mean some kind of DoS or DDoS attack protection.
19:09<sobersabre>is there any possibility to buy a package with this protection ?
19:09<sobersabre>[from linode, of course]
19:11<sobersabre>I am not "looking forward" any such thing.
19:11<sobersabre>are you kidding ?
19:11<sobersabre>yet, there are many weirdos around the globe. not only nice people like you and I.
19:12<erikh>what he's saying is, if you're attracting it, you probably need more than linode
19:12<erikh>or a vps service
19:12<erikh>(in general)
19:12<erikh>at least that's how I interpreted it
19:12<sobersabre>erikh: you are a lawyer, are you :) ?
19:12<erikh>no, I write open source software for a living
19:13<erikh>which is kind of like being a lawyer.
19:13<erikh>long hours, lots of arguing, politics
19:13<sobersabre>erikh: free lance or employee ?
19:14<sobersabre>well, I have a serious allergy to some kind of politics in big companies that can afford open source...
19:14<sobersabre>and small companies usually cannot go into open source, at least as long as they're small.
19:15<sobersabre>so, basically I don't code almost anything in oss area.
19:15<sobersabre>which is yet another :(
19:15<sobersabre>day will come, and I will get to an early pension.... :-)
19:15<erikh>i'm at a small consultancy
19:16<erikh>basically, you pay us, we GPL the work, you get features from other paid work for free
19:17<erikh>the app increases in features and everyone wins
19:17<erikh>it's working well enough
19:18<erikh>cygnus was targeting enterprises
19:18<erikh>dunno if that's our owners' plans
19:19<erikh>itanium I assume?
19:20<erikh>then probably alpha
19:21<erikh>cygwin is very useful, but I have trouble seeing how it could make them money
19:21<erikh>or could have
19:21<erikh>didn't they do egcs too?
19:21<erikh>ah, that's it
19:22<erikh>C++ is a lot better than anything sun's put out in the last 10 years.
19:22<erikh>dunno, Ocaml seems to pull it off
19:23<erikh>and the objective-c guys aren't crying too loud
19:24<erikh>which means they were paying his phone bill
19:24<erikh>eh, just a bad figure of speech
19:24<erikh>heh, sweet
19:25<erikh>I remember them pre-cygwin, but I don't remember what they did
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19:25<erikh>I think codesourcery has taken over most of that work these days
19:25<erikh>and redhat
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19:50<sobersabre>ok, guys, I will be around, thanks for the help!
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20:59<Talman>Hey, I gotta a question.
20:59<Talman>I'm currently ripping something to my linode. 300k a sec. Is this bad?
20:59<Talman>Its a wget command.
20:59<Toba_>its not
21:00<Toba_>you won't get in trouble for that, hell i'm moving a few gigs at a couple megabits right now
21:04<Talman>I wasn't sure how much stress is stress.
21:13<bd_>as long as you stay within your monthly quota... :)
21:24<Talman>Well, yes.
21:30<m0unds>i think people who --omg-optimize nightly builds of buggy apps are probably more of a nuisance than grabbing some files via wget..
21:30<Pryon>haha. I'll have to remember that compiler switch
21:30<m0unds>it's a good 'un
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21:59<encode>i just tried it, it doesn't improve my gentoo performance
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22:00<mjsotn>Just a quick quesiton, I have created a custom distribution with the rescue shell, however when I reboot it I have no eth0 device, so dhcp won't start.
22:02<encode>the infoto configure your nic statically is in the web interface
22:03<@mikegrb>mjsotn: eth1?
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22:07<mjsotn>umm but I can't even configure it statically if I "ifconfig eth0" I get "no such device"
22:09<@mikegrb>try eth1?
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22:09<mjsotn>ahh I do have an eth1
22:09<mjsotn>hmm wonder why that is
22:10<@mikegrb>/etc/iftab or a udev rule
22:10<][EvIl-BoY][>Hi , im triying to make a program on my virtual and [jorge@denali Unreal3.2.7]$ make install
22:10<][EvIl-BoY][>-bash: make: command not found
22:10<][EvIl-BoY][>how i can install the application for make?
22:10<@mikegrb>which distro?
22:11<@mikegrb>need to install make/gcc etc via yum
22:11<@mikegrb>no clue on a package name ;)
22:12<][EvIl-BoY][>how i can do that?
22:12<][EvIl-BoY][>im newbie
22:12<][EvIl-BoY][>can help me?
22:12<@mikegrb>debian/ubuntu have a package named build-essential that depends on make, gcc, etc
22:12<@mikegrb>I'm not a centos user though
22:12*Hobbsee suggests
22:13<@mikegrb>thanks Hobbsee
22:13<Hobbsee>again, i'm not a centos user either, so...
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22:14<mjsotn>ahh yep, it was a udev rule
22:15<mjsotn>has my vmware config as eth0 so the uml net device got assigned eth1
22:16<@mikegrb>no prob
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23:11*guinea-pig [heart] build-essential
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23:38<barleyman>* what firewall do people use
23:39<barleyman>can you run multiple linodes on one account?
23:39<@caker>Battousai: heh
23:39<@caker>barleyman: you can add multiple Linodes under one account, yes.
23:40<barleyman>but you have to pay for each one, correct
23:40<barleyman>ok, that is what I thought, but I wasnn't sure
23:42<bd_>Theoretically you could run UMLs in Xen... but the performance might not be too good without the host kernel patch...
23:42<bd_>you could run UML in UML too I think but that seems like even higher overhead
23:42<@caker>you can also nest UML inside UML
23:43<Battousai>does anybody use their linode for that?
23:43<@caker>bd_: skas0 (mode UML runs in on an unpatched host) isn't too bad
23:43<@caker>It's come up before, so possibly...
23:45<bd_>been a while since I looked at UML last I guess :)
23:45<@caker>CONFIG_NEST_LEVEL=0 <-- set that to 1 and you're golden
23:46<@caker>do you have a /proc/mm inside your UML?
23:46<@caker>I think skas3 passes through, too
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23:47<bd_>not on at least
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 17 00:00:30 2008