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#linode IRC Logs for 2008-09-30

---Logopened Tue Sep 30 00:00:24 2008
---Daychanged Tue Sep 30 2008
00:00<@tasaro>insert into support_ticket ...
00:01<charlie>the admin backend is `mysql`
00:01*charlie really does want to see a screenshot if possible :P
00:01*dvgrhl too
00:03<Bryan>where would i request a cloak?
00:03-!-vorien [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:03<jraynes>Holy crap, NJ datacenter is awesome
00:03<jraynes>downloaded an iso in 16 seconds
00:03<charlie>Bryan: #oftc maybe
00:04<charlie>jraynes: wait until you start hitting NJ's occasional network problems, you might retract that statement
00:04*charlie needs some sleep, i stayed up way too last last night
00:04-!-^GaveUp^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:08*jraynes crosses fingers on elastix install
00:08<internat1>nj has random network issues?
00:09<dvgrhl>just around the turnpike
00:11<internat1>maybe i shouldnt use that as my monitoring hub then :P
00:15<zerolimit>i am not sure.. but all my sites in NJ have that problem... i changed distro, lighttpd -> nginx, no effect but when moved to TX, all are fine now... it has been a week
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00:19<Eman>one of my friends has a linode in nj... he runs an irc server on it, its always splitting and dumping its users
00:20<@tasaro>NJ had intermittant network issues when we opened there -- it was taken care of about a month ago and it's been fine since
00:20<internat1>ah ok
00:20<internat1>dare i ask what the problem was?
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00:22<@tasaro>router config problem on their end
00:23<internat1>ah ok
00:24<@tasaro>would cause bouncing between two routes, ttl exceeded, etc
00:24<internat1>meh, ultimately i dont really care.. i just didnt want it in dallas or fremont, but dont want to goto Atlanta either.. As long as its fairly reliable its not really an issue :)
00:24<StevenK>But Fremont is love
00:24<internat1>it is
00:24<internat1>i have 2 in dallas, 1 in fremont, and 1 requested in fremont :P
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00:25*bd_ wonders how long the fremont waitlist is now
00:25<internat1>i think im 5th for a 540..
00:25<StevenK>Hm. Wasn't there going to be news about Fremont by the end of this month?
00:28<m0unds>Date first available at September 4, 1973
00:28<m0unds>good stuff.
00:28<@tasaro>internat1: now you're 4th
00:28<Peng_>StevenK: THere's still time. :D
00:29<StevenK>Peng_: Heh, not much.
00:30<Peng_>What about the NAS thing?
00:30*Peng_ whispers "vaporware" and runs away
00:30*tasaro vaporwares Peng_
00:30<Peng_>Not vaporwear, I hope
00:31<StevenK>I'm very interested in the NAS thing.
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00:34<dvgrhl>we'll see NAS before DN3
00:35<dvgrhl>Duke Nukem Forever I meant, oops
00:35<dvgrhl>F not 3
00:36<bd_>'forever' is the development cycle, of course
00:36<dvgrhl>besides, they said NAS had some issues but just recently got worked out so they are back to working on it
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01:10<jraynes>Anyone have a fax machine nearby?
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01:13<dvgrhl>heh, nice job waiting all of 2 minutes for an answer
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01:15<SelfishMan>RAID 0,1 or 10 for a dedicated mysql database server? Thoughts? I'm looking for raw performance, not reliability (backups are a good thing)
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01:16<dvgrhl>10 would be the fastest, right?
01:16<SelfishMan>slower for writes typically
01:17<dvgrhl>but aren't reads the important part for a database?
01:17<SelfishMan>I have my own opinion but I'm wondering if anyone else has some real world experience using mysql
01:17<Eman>get massive amounts of ram and run a ramdisk :p
01:17<dvgrhl>I suppose it ultimately depends on what the database is used for
01:18<SelfishMan>This database has constant writes and a handful of reads. The writes can be slower but 10 can be slow for random reads too
01:18<SelfishMan>Eman: Have 300GB of RAM sitting around?
01:19<dvgrhl>well, 10 is better than 0 I believe in any case, and 1 wouldn't offer any performance gain
01:20*Eman delivers a dumptruck of 1meg 30pin simms
01:21<SelfishMan>Eman: I actually still run hardware that can use those
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01:23<Eman>you remember those socket extensions that let you put two sticks in one slot?
01:24<SelfishMan>Oh yeah. RAMStackr. I still have some for the 30 pin stuff
01:24<SelfishMan>8 30-pins feeding one 72 pin socket
01:24<Eman>bigass board hanging with no support
01:25<dvgrhl>SelfishMan, what is your opinion on the mysql issue?
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01:25<SelfishMan>I'm torn between striped and 10
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01:25<dvgrhl>I suppose the question is how important is downtime?
01:26<dvgrhl>the 0 is cheaper
01:26<SelfishMan>not a matter of cost as all the hardware is already owned
01:26<dvgrhl>10 cuts the storage capacity in half
01:26<SelfishMan>raw performance of a mysql database is the primary concern
01:26<SelfishMan>large indexes, massive datasets
01:26<SelfishMan>The indexes have no chance of fitting in RAM
01:27<dvgrhl>I still say Raid 10 has to be better than 0
01:27<SelfishMan>I'm holding four 3TB drives right now so I'm not concerned about capacity
01:27<dvgrhl>can you do raid 0 across more than 2 drives?
01:27<SelfishMan>Yep. Striping can be done across any (reasonable) number of drives
01:27<Eman>im pretty sure you can
01:28<bd_>dvgrhl: RAID 10 ought to get you higher read performance certainly
01:28<dvgrhl>but he is most concerned with write
01:28<bd_>oh. Any raid will reduce write performance, except RAID 0
01:28<bd_>depending on workload I guess
01:28<Eman>i assume its gonna use a hardware controller?
01:29<dvgrhl>oh yeah
01:29<dvgrhl>good questions
01:29<bd_>ie, if you have 4x RAID0 (2x RAID1) you might get a performance increase over a single drive
01:29<SelfishMan>The bottleneck isn't the drives as much as the bus or controller
01:29<SelfishMan>I'm about to do some benchmarking but I thought I would try to get some feedback.
01:29<SelfishMan>hardware controller, yes
01:29<dvgrhl>if you have a good hardware raid controller and writing is your only concern, then I would guess Raid 0 would be the fastest
01:30<bd_>I wouldn't expect RAID1/0 to be too much slower in software, as such... but I may be wrong
01:30<StevenK>I would expect RAID 10 to win, personally
01:30<SelfishMan>writes aren't my only concern, they can just afford to be delayed a few microseconds
01:30<bd_>(assuming the underlying drive controllers are fast enough, and the additional PCI bus traffic isn't a problem)
01:30<dvgrhl>but I don't know how much slower Raid 10 would be, and you get improved read
01:30<dvgrhl>and reduncancy
01:30<bd_>it's probably not much worse than a single drive, since the writes can occur in parallel
01:31<bd_>if you have a battery-backed controller you can defer it a good bit in the write cache
01:31<dvgrhl>right, which is why my instinct was to go with Raid 10
01:31<SelfishMan>About to start some benchmarks of mysql-proxy as well
01:31<dvgrhl>well let us know what you find out
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01:32<SelfishMan>I honestly think I will get a greater speed increase from mysql-proxy than the underlying disks
01:33<SelfishMan>multiple clients accessing a single mysql server
01:33<dvgrhl>and also having good sql statements will make a big difference
01:33<SelfishMan>The SQL statements are as optimal as they can get
01:33<dvgrhl>though I suppose INSERT statements are pretty basic
01:34<SelfishMan>The statements are basic selects, inserts and updates to single tables at a time
01:34<SelfishMan>Just hoping to cut the mysql time down in half
01:35<dvgrhl>what is it on now?
01:36<SelfishMan>single drive
01:36<SelfishMan>I'm hitting a capacity limit and want to rebuild the system anyway
01:37<StevenK>SelfishMan: In other words, the single hard drive is nearly full? :-)
01:37<SelfishMan>That too
01:37<SelfishMan>RAM limits are a concern as well
01:37<dvgrhl>or mysql is running as fast as it can
01:37<dvgrhl>RAM helps mysql a lot I know that
01:38<dvgrhl>do you know what you bottlenecks are right now?
01:38<SelfishMan>I think the TCP overhead on the mysql connections is a large part of it but I know the disks are a little slow
01:39<dvgrhl>is cpu load really high?
01:39<SelfishMan>I have to run for a few but I'm interested in any feedback you guys have
01:39<dvgrhl>or memory usage?
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01:39<SelfishMan>CPU load is relatively low, 4GB isn't enough RAM, current disk is old
01:40<StevenK>The replacement will have more RAM and ergo hit 64-bit?
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01:42<linbot>New news from forums: outside the US payment in Sales Questions and Answers <>
01:42<George>does linode automaticly bill me or do they send a invoice
01:42<bd_>George: automatic billing is the norm
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01:42<bd_>I think they've done alternate prepay arrangements in the past
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01:43<George>on the account information says $79.90 credit
01:44<George>their invoice manager is weird
01:46<dvgrhl>maybe Linode is paying people to use their service now? sign me up for that if so
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01:48<bd_>George: If you cancel something or remove an extra it becomes a credit
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01:49<wenbert>will Linode accept Paypal? the account has been verified with a creditcard...
01:49<SelfishMan>wenbert: You can use a paypal debit/credit card though
01:50<wenbert>i don't have a paypal debit/credit card... i am not from the US and banks from my country charge more than the normal conversion rates :/
01:51<SelfishMan>paypal issues card numbers that are reuseable for a certain vendor only
01:51<bd_>They generally don't accept paypal I think
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01:51<bd_>I think they might be able to do something with a prepay of a few months - but I don't know how much of a 'something' that'd be
01:51<dvgrhl>as long as your Paypal account is backed by a CC they will issue a one-use CC number to use
01:52<bd_>probably best to ask
01:52<bd_>I mean, ask an op :)'
01:52<George4>I got the pay one month get one month free special they had
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01:52<bob2>SelfishMan: paypal cards and numbers seem us-only
01:52<George4>so it isnt due ill next month
01:52<bd_>George4: IIRC there's an automatic credit issued, or something
01:52<SelfishMan>bob2: Really? Good to hear
01:53<George4>well I pay them strait with a credit card
01:55<wenbert>hmmm... too bad it does not support the normal paypal though :(
01:56<dvgrhl>paypal is a headache though
01:56<dvgrhl>so I understand why
01:56<dvgrhl>and they're not a bank, so they don't have to follow banking rules. they can just freeze accounts (which they have done in the past) and you are left at their mercy
01:57<bob2>they are a bank in some countries
01:57<wenbert>oic that sucks
01:57<bob2>more or less
01:57<bob2>their fees suck as well
01:57<dvgrhl>well, not in the US where Linode operates
01:57<SelfishMan>I find that funny since paypal used to be a branch of which was an actual bank in the US
01:57<dvgrhl>yeah, but now Paypal is owned by e-bay, and that's a whole other story as to why people have a moral objection to using it
01:58<dvgrhl>but from a purely business stand-point, it just isn't always attractive
01:58<Eman>bank accounts need ACL's
01:58<Eman>ie: paypal can only deposit, but not withdraw
01:59<dvgrhl>I think you can set that up can't you?
01:59<bd_>I hear that in some EU countries there's a no-questions-asked policy for reversing charges (and they don't get applied until /after/ the statement comes in...)
01:59<Eman>i couldnt back when i set up my paypal account
01:59<Eman>but that was 6 years ago
01:59<Eman>i just keep a second bank account specifically for paypal
01:59<bob2>that seems to be a us-ism
02:00<dvgrhl>I just never tied it to an account, didn't trust it
02:00<SelfishMan>Someone needs to build a centralized bonnie++ database
02:00<SelfishMan>Like all the PCMark/3DMark stuff
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02:00<dvgrhl>you could be somewhat-mediocerley-wealthy if you made one
02:01<SelfishMan>The only problem is I can't release actual performance numbers about the drives I'm about to use
02:01<dvgrhl>are they Google drives?
02:01<dvgrhl>you bound by an NDA?
02:02<SelfishMan>No. I contract with Seagate so I get all the new stuff but can't actually say much of anything about them
02:03<dvgrhl>well, to be fair prior to you telling us that, you could have told us the performance of the drives and just left out the manf
02:03<SelfishMan>Not really
02:03<Eman>i want a nice full height 5.25inch harddrive using the latest densities and such... sure it wouldnt be all that fast, but i dont need speed for what i wanna do
02:03<SelfishMan>I watched someone get fired for blogging about a drives stats without any mention of model or manufacturer
02:04<SelfishMan>Eman: I used to use a full height drive (whopping 4GB) as a foot warmer
02:04<dvgrhl>oh, so you really CAN'T say anything
02:04<Eman>SelfishMan, but a modern drive could probably pack 16tb or so in it
02:04<dvgrhl>not just like "oh, well I shouldn't"
02:04<SelfishMan>Not if I want to keep getting the free drives
02:04<dvgrhl>you get to keep them?
02:04<SelfishMan>They paycheck is OK but the free drives are freakin awesome!
02:05<SelfishMan>Well, yes and no. I have to return them when I am done with them or my contract is terminated but I get to decide when I am done with them. I love riders
02:05<dvgrhl>I would go destitute from trying to fill up my TB's of drives
02:06<dvgrhl>so you can't make like a 64TB storage farm in your basement
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02:06<Eman>64tb? i could fill that in a matter of months
02:07<SelfishMan>I use almost every single drive and when all is said and done if the contract terminates on good terms I get to keep the drives typically
02:07<dvgrhl>Eman: what ISP do you have that you can use 64TB of bandwidth in a few months?
02:08<Eman>i'd get most from other people directly
02:08<exor674>dvgrhl: a full OC48?
02:08<dvgrhl>I doubt he has that running to his pc
02:08<Eman>you'd be surprised how fast you can fill your shit at a lanparty
02:08<tozz>they get 1000/1000 in japan
02:08<dvgrhl>at my university there is a hub I can plug into that I get 25Mbps up and down
02:08<SelfishMan>Hmm...64TB is a lot of porn for one person!
02:09<dvgrhl>even HD porn wouldn't fill that all up
02:09<Eman>every year my college's it club puts on a lanparty...
02:09<SelfishMan>That sounds like a challenge
02:09<Eman>since its over vacation weekends, we get full access to their 150mbit connection
02:10<Eman>last year we used one of the old linode hosts as a router
02:10<Eman>worked really damn nice
02:10<tozz>college with 150? hehe
02:10<Eman>the funniest part was the email they sent us
02:10<tozz>we're lucky in .se .. our collage had dual 2gbit
02:10<Eman>"if you had asked sooner, we'd have got you faster"
02:12<dvgrhl>got you faster?
02:12<dvgrhl>like a faster connection?
02:12<Eman>we'll see what they give us this year
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02:13<exor674>I want an OC48 right to my brain <_<
02:13<Eman>i want gigabit internet
02:13<Eman>so sftpdrive works at a reasonable speed
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02:14<SelfishMan>It's all about the terabit networks now
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02:22<goodwill1120>I have a domain which I would like to transfer to linode for parking
02:22<goodwill1120>how could I do that?
02:22<goodwill1120>I tried the import tool but what is the AXFR about?
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02:40<zerolimit>axfr is a way to replicate dns data across dns ervers
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02:55<SelfishMan>Oh wow
02:56<SelfishMan>mysql-proxy is faster for connecting than the local socket and identical performance for queries
03:08<zerolimit>have you checked the performance of fastcgi method, both using local unix socket and localhost port? which one performs better?
03:09<SelfishMan>Doesn't apply to my environment so no, I haven't bothered
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04:04<goodwill1120>but how to get it work with my existing domain
04:04<goodwill1120>I mean how to get AXFR work for my old domain
04:05<bob2>if your goal is to just have and point at your website, you don't need to AXFR
04:07<bob2>hm, my packets to newark get lost in ""'s network
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04:10<goodwill1120>no, I want to port it over
04:10<goodwill1120>I am going to cut my old host off
04:10<goodwill1120>and their domain hosting is ridiculously unstable
04:10<goodwill1120>another q: any nginx expert here
04:10<goodwill1120>I have issues on how to get the vhost setup work
04:10<goodwill1120>somehow seems the vhost is not picking up traffic
04:11<bob2>port /what/ over?
04:11<goodwill1120>despite the fact I have checked the domain is correct and I even eliminate the default host
04:11<bob2>how many names are in this zone?
04:11<goodwill1120>domain parking
04:11<goodwill1120>haha well I know I could just recreate them :)
04:13<goodwill1120>but I am just lazy, and seems AXFR would be very sexy if it works
04:13<bob2>then go to
04:15<SelfishMan>goodwill1120: Your current DNS servers must allow AXFR to the linode DNS and web server
04:15<SelfishMan>If you can't do that or it doesn't make sense then recreate the zones manually in Linode
04:16<SelfishMan>And laziness has no place managing a server
04:16<goodwill1120>hmmm... guess thats the caase :P
04:16<goodwill1120>hahaha man come on :P
04:16<goodwill1120>human are lazy :P
04:16<goodwill1120>back to the nginx question instead
04:16<goodwill1120>any guy with experience working on nginx?
04:16<SelfishMan>lazy == pwn3d
04:17<goodwill1120>the problem is AXFR if possible is less error prone than doing it manual right? :)
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04:18<SelfishMan>Even if you use AXFR you still need to reconfigure it for the new server
04:18<SelfishMan>So you are basically recreating the whole zone anyway
04:18<goodwill1120>not really
04:18<goodwill1120>the point is I have other hosting not at linode
04:18<goodwill1120>so for those zones I wouldnt need to repoint the IP
04:19<goodwill1120>thats not tided together
04:19<SelfishMan>Then you shouldn't be using Linode's DNS servers for that
04:19<SelfishMan>You can use *your* linode
04:19<goodwill1120>why not linode's DNS?
04:19<SelfishMan>Why should Linode have to handle the DNS traffic for sites that aren't even a part of their network?
04:19<goodwill1120>I dont wanna put load or management to my own unless its strictly necessary :)
04:20<goodwill1120>coz its a provided service
04:20<goodwill1120>I dont really care :)
04:20<goodwill1120>dns is just name = IP service
04:20<goodwill1120>I dont think linode would have issue with me too
04:21<goodwill1120>anyway thanks mate, I got to try to fix my nginx issue
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04:22<mysty>has anyone here decided to use google apps to host the MX for their linode webserver?
04:23<SelfishMan>Plenty of people have
04:23<Navi`>I have
04:23<SelfishMan>The screaming didn't stop when GA was down for two days
04:23<Navi`>works great
04:25<mysty>kewl, Im using linode as a webserver but dfont want to have to deal with all the mail spam and relay / virus stuff..
04:26<bob2>it is almost entirely unrelated to your linode
04:26<bob2>unless you want your linode to use google as a smarthost
04:26<mysty>so was gonna take the plunge and point my MX to the google cloud
04:27<mysty>just not quite sure where to start - or whether the domains that use google as their mx need to start paying money etc
04:27<mysty>time to go read
04:27<mysty>a manual - meh
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04:32<Navi`>it's free for about 100 users
04:33<mysty>Navi`: thanks :-)
04:33<Navi`>main reason I use google's mail stuff is that gmail and especially live/hotmail tend to blackhole e-mail coming from my linode x.x
04:34<bob2>hotmail blackholes lots of people's mail servers
04:35<bob2>make sure you have fixed forward/reverse dns, spf, ehlo name
04:35<mysty>Navi`: do you have a way to get google apps to deliver some email to your linode for like email -> blog posting kind of thing, say for inbound iemail based image posting?
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04:38<mysty>I suppose a cron job could pull it in via pop instead .. pull instead of push
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04:45<Navi`>mysty: no I haven't, but gmail has imap support so you could read it from there
04:48<mysty>Navi`: yeah, I think I answered my own question - one of the things I like about irc :-)
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05:50<mysty>can anyone recommend a half decent winblow$ irc client? I keep crashing firefox so chatzilla keeps getting axed..
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06:39<metaperl>mysty_: use HydraIRC on windows
06:40<linbot>New news from forums: Dallas 45 - rebooted 30 Sep 14:45 but no notice issued in General Discussion <>
06:41<mysty_>metaperl: does it remember the channels and log you back in?
06:42<metaperl>mysty_: you can set that up
06:42<metaperl>the wiki has details
06:42<mysty_>nice - thanks
06:42<metaperl>it does take me back to my channels
06:42<mysty_>using xchat 2 now, and its looks .. ok I guess
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08:10<mysty>metaperl: thanks - I prefer HydraIRC :)
08:10<metaperl>great. glad to hear it :)
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08:22<tozz>mirc for life :p
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08:40<mysty>metaperl: sweet! now have HydraIRC autoconnecting to two servers and a few channels on startup. Just need to reverse the colours now... lol
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08:56<Lustre>Hey, whats the tar for ts2_server_rc2_202319.tar.bz2 because im getting errors on -xf
08:56<praetorian>well its bz2 .. so you need to add the bzip2 flag
08:57<bob2>the tar flags you need are -jxf
08:57<bob2>for modern gnu tar
08:57<praetorian>sif spell it out
08:57<Lustre>i forgot to apt-get bzip2 :<
09:08<Lustre>um, im getting permission denied when doing sudo start-stop-daemon --chuid teamspeak --chdir /opt/tss2_rc2 --start --exec /opt/tss2_rc2/server_linux - trying to set up a TS server.
09:12<@tasaro>anyone subscribe to linux journal?
09:12-!-mysty is now known as mysty-away
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09:23<praetorian>make love, not war.
09:26-!-geo [] has joined #linode
09:27<geo>*all* of namecheap's name servers are down
09:28<geo>that;s nice, waking up like that in the morning
09:28-!-Schroeder [] has joined #linode
09:28<chesty>should have gone with namereliable
09:28<geo>Namecheap is a good registrar
09:28<praetorian>so is godaddy.
09:28<geo>better than godaddy
09:29*praetorian notes that he only used godaddy for the registering part
09:29<chesty>namecheap sounds great...
09:29<praetorian>and thus, no problems
09:29<Schroeder>yes, but Danica Patrick is HOT
09:29<praetorian>yet she wont be getting near my domains.
09:29<geo>Goddady is all about making you suffer
09:30<geo>looking at 20 pages of cross-sell, up-sell, just to log into your account
09:30<praetorian>i dont get that.
09:30<Nivex>I too only use Godaddy to register, so I only have to deal with that headache once every couple of years
09:31<geo>So you save a $1, I don't get it...
09:31<geo>Why would you support a company like that?
09:32<chesty>yeah, go with one with dodgy nameservers
09:32<nicktastic>geo: Yeah, I'm never using godaddy again.
09:32<praetorian>just out of curosity, why?
09:32<geo>I'm not saying use namecheap, just don't use godaddy
09:32<chesty>i use
09:33*emag has been using Joker for...a long time. may not be the cheapest now w/ the dollar so weak against the euro, but they're still really nice
09:33<geo>If I want to buy a domain, I do not want to navigate a maze of advertisments and marketing pits
09:33<Nivex>*everything* on the 'net is a maze of ads and marketing these days
09:33<nicktastic>Horribly slow site, ads _everywhere_, fugly site, up-sell attempts all over the place
09:33<praetorian>..and that affects you having a domain registered how?
09:34<praetorian>was there a technical issue, did all their say.. nameservers go down?
09:34-!-pmw [] has joined #linode
09:34<nicktastic>I don't want to look at that garbage when I register a domain.
09:35<nicktastic>And the slow site makes me have to look at it _longer_.
09:35<geo>theNS are not responding back
09:35<geo>I see nothing on the namecheap site
09:36<geo>Its just something I tracked down
09:36<geo>First I thought it was my linode account
09:36<praetorian>nicktastic: i dont know about you .. but i dont register a domain weekly, let alone bi-monthly :p
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09:40<geo>now I can ping dn1, but none are responding to queries
09:40<geo>I think they all might be getting ddosed
09:41<Lustre>Is 32 users on teamspeak alot for the basic linode package? not sure how many i can get :/
09:41<nicktastic>I don't know about you, but I refuse to encourage companies to engage in those undesirable practices by giving them my money
09:48<geo>praetorian: I'll spend an extra dollar just not to see those adds and sells once per year
09:49-!-mysty-away is now known as mysty
09:49<geo>and don't even get me started on there control panel / manager
09:54<geo>this is bad, now is down
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09:56<Lustre>how do i create a file with sudo
09:56<Lustre>put this (via sudo) into a file named /etc/init.d/teamspeak.
09:58-!-privet [] has joined #linode
10:02<geo>Looks like they are getting all kinds of DDOSed right now, website, domain nameservers, hosting servers, etc.
10:03-!-ph^ [~ph^@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:08<mysty>metaperl: and it supports regexp! kewlness
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10:14<freedom_is_chaos>Can I have someone test connectivity to a local debian repo in the Dallas DC
10:14-!-privet [] has joined #linode
10:21<geo>Has the Linode network/infrastructure ever weathered a DoS attack?
10:22-!-Levia [~Levia@] has joined #linode
10:26<geo>So how do you handle it? Just let it pass, put up some h/w solutions, get your dc to take care of it? Where is the point where the DC just null routes you?
10:26<tjfontaine>most attacks are handled by the DC, linode requests null routes to specific IPs that are under attack
10:26<geo>Or do you give in and pay the ransom?
10:27<tjfontaine>linode switches and routers have DoS mitigation techniques as well, but occasionally some people might still notice when a node is under attack
10:27<geo>Yeah, but what if the attack is all the linode servers, the entire network, + nameservers
10:28<freedom_is_chaos>Curiously, why are you asking?
10:29<geo>Arn't some types of DDos just very very difficult to mitigate?
10:29<geo>Like a 3Gbit/s attack
10:29<tjfontaine>linode has fiber drops mmk
10:29<tjfontaine>multiple links
10:29<tjfontaine>moar bits
10:30<@caker>+ dial-up backup links
10:30<tjfontaine>true story
10:30<geo>asking because it's happening to my registrar right now, not becase I plan on ransoming linode
10:30<tjfontaine>what registrar?
10:30<@tasaro>it doesn't matter how big it is once it is null routed and we hit the BRB
10:31<freedom_is_chaos>I know the Texas DC is theplanet, which is one of the largest colos that I know of.
10:31<freedom_is_chaos>so they probably deal with that on a daily basis.
10:34<freedom_is_chaos>so...can anyone test a local debian repo in the dallas dc?
10:35<freedom_is_chaos>its mirror'd from
10:35<freedom_is_chaos>do md5sum checks if you want.
10:36<freedom_is_chaos>I'll have my botnet to ddos linode from the inside soon enough :D
10:39<freedom_is_chaos>but I want too
10:41<linbot>New news from forums: Debian does Dallas, a local repo in General Discussion <>
10:41<freedom_is_chaos>oh man.
10:41<freedom_is_chaos>I didn't know we had a forum monitoring bot
10:41<tjfontaine>that's an excellent name
10:41<freedom_is_chaos>I thought so.
10:42*caker tweaks at "setup"
10:42<freedom_is_chaos>hopefully, I get to see vsftpd in a stressed enviroment
10:42<tjfontaine>caker: is shutdown a verb? :)
10:42<tjfontaine>shutdowning, shutdowned?
10:42<freedom_is_chaos>I shutdown your mom
10:42<freedom_is_chaos>yup, verb
10:42<linbot>setup is not a verb. Please see
10:42<@caker>tjfontaine: no, and it should be eradicated if I used it incorrectly on the site
10:43<freedom_is_chaos>/setup/have setup//g
10:43<tjfontaine>SpaceHobo: and languages are immutable
10:43*tjfontaine begins holy w4r
10:43<tjfontaine>SpaceHobo: my position is nothing new
10:44<imMute>congrats, you have a debian repo within the DC. now setup a fedora repo and then Ill celebrate
10:44-!-privet [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:45<freedom_is_chaos>convince linode to give me space, and I'll manage the mirrors
10:45<freedom_is_chaos>I'm dirt broke.
10:45<imMute>how much space do you need?
10:46<freedom_is_chaos>I dunno.
10:46<freedom_is_chaos>the debian mirror is rougly 10GB
10:46<freedom_is_chaos>with just main.
10:46<freedom_is_chaos>last time I setup a fedora repo, it was about the same.
10:46<geo>Linode should go the route of BlueHost.... UNLIMITED SPACE
10:46<freedom_is_chaos>I configured the setup of a fedora repo
10:47<tjfontaine>I configured a fedora repo
10:47<freedom_is_chaos>what is the ++ for?
10:47<freedom_is_chaos>what did I do?
10:47<tjfontaine>using setup as a verb
10:47<tjfontaine>in the middle of the discussion
10:49-!-privet [] has joined #linode
10:49<freedom_is_chaos>and as for using setup as a verb, try barely sleeping working night shift and unable to make your brain shut off.
10:50<freedom_is_chaos>sleeping, working
10:50<freedom_is_chaos>damn commas always screwing me over.
10:51-!-Dreamr_3 [~Dreamer3@] has joined #linode
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10:55<linbot>setup is not a verb. Please see
10:56<cruxeternus>Sorry, just had the urge to use a bot trigger.
10:56<linbot>cruxeternus: *click*
10:56<linbot>*BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
10:56*linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
10:57<cruxeternus>You almost won.
10:57<freedom_is_chaos>try again?
10:58<cruxeternus>Nah, gotta wait until caker ops the bot.
11:02-!-dvgrhl [] has quit []
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11:08<linbot>*BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
11:08*linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
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11:19<cruxeternus>wow, two in a row.. with no follow-through :/
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11:20-!-linville_ is now known as linville
11:20<tjfontaine>we have now instituted a ban on all compound words and contractions.
11:20<tjfontaine>that is all.
11:21*caker turnsdown the AC
11:21<freedom_is_chaos>so is caker going to turn up the heat?
11:21<tjfontaine>do not stop, believing.
11:21*cruxeternus sets mode: +o linbot
11:22<freedom_is_chaos>wheel in the sky is much better
11:22-!-kelvinq [] has joined #linode
11:23<kelvinq>hello Linode.
11:23<tjfontaine>oh hai
11:23<freedom_is_chaos>no tj I'm Linode
11:23<tjfontaine>oh bai
11:23<tjfontaine>cruxeternus: freedom_is_chaos is horning in on your PA experience
11:24<freedom_is_chaos>uh oh
11:24<kelvinq>this may sound like blasphemy but i'm building a cluster using solely VPS and we are scaling for Availability. we are thinking of spreading our servers across many different providers. we have found slicehost to be great and Linode to be EVEN better. however, we need one more provider to spread across. does anyone have experience with other Linode-like providers?
11:25*cruxeternus confusedmuch .
11:25<freedom_is_chaos>VPSlink is another big guy
11:25<cruxeternus>Linode > *
11:25<cruxeternus>That is all.
11:25<freedom_is_chaos>DynDNS is now doing VPS, and they have always been great.
11:26<aaronpk>kelvinq: i would also recommend getting linodes in each data center that is available
11:26<freedom_is_chaos>however, I'm with crux on Linode > *
11:26<kelvinq>dyndns is doing vps! woah!
11:26<kelvinq>freedom_is_chaos: what do you mean by crux?
11:26<aaronpk>i used for a while, i was relatively happy, but i <3 linode much more
11:26<freedom_is_chaos>his username, crux == cruxeternus
11:26<kelvinq>aaronpk: yup, but it's still the same provider. corporate policy is weird here.
11:26<freedom_is_chaos>pidgin irc doesn't do tab support like xchat
11:27<kelvinq>yes Linode is fantastic and beats slicehost hands down.
11:27<tjfontaine>freedom_is_chaos: may I suggest irssi
11:27<kelvinq>btw, i'm using Chatzilla and it's fantastic! but xchat is better!
11:27*kelvinq moans that there's no xchat for windows.
11:27<tjfontaine>there is, and even free
11:27<freedom_is_chaos>when I install awesome WM, I'll go with irssi
11:28<aaronpk>i thought xchat was not free
11:28<freedom_is_chaos>kelvinq, there are unofficial builds for xchat
11:28<tjfontaine>though he seems sufficiently out of date
11:28<freedom_is_chaos>you can source build xchat for free, or get an unofficial one.
11:28<freedom_is_chaos>they should even have directions on doing it.
11:28<kelvinq>aaronpk: xchat is FREE! it's in Debian. ;)
11:28<tjfontaine>shows how long I've been away from windows FOSS I suppose
11:28<aaronpk>i meant xchat for windows
11:28<Nivex>PuTTY + screen + irssi
11:29<freedom_is_chaos>gnome-terminal + irssi :P
11:29-!-internat1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:29<cruxeternus>Ok, quick. How many of you are actually chatterbots?
11:29<Nivex>cruxeternus: "Negative, I am a meat popsicle."
11:29-!-Internat [] has joined #linode
11:29<freedom_is_chaos>I've got nothing else better to do right now.
11:30<freedom_is_chaos>and I thought that's what IRC was, multi-player notepad.
11:30<cruxeternus>caker: If you op the bot, maybe I can convince some of them to commit IRC suicide.
11:30<Nivex>chatterbots may be identified with the following ping-like command:
11:31<freedom_is_chaos>see, they laugh
11:31<cruxeternus>They fear you, that's why.
11:31<Nivex>but it is compressed laughter, as noted by the trailing 'z'
11:32<Lustre>how many TS people can i get my linode
11:32<freedom_is_chaos>you forgot the dot.
11:32<kelvinq>man, i can't follow the conversation here!
11:32<freedom_is_chaos>TS people?
11:33<kelvinq>Tech Support?
11:33<@caker>Lustre: 1 less than the number that causes it to not work well
11:33-!-zerolimit [hendrylee@] has quit []
11:33<freedom_is_chaos>good answer
11:33<kelvinq>Lustre: One less than 42.
11:33<freedom_is_chaos>but is > than 41
11:33<Nivex>bandwidth is definitely not the limiting factor. I'm not sure how much CPU TeamSpeak uses per participant.
11:34<kelvinq>it's X, where 41 < X <42.
11:34<kelvinq>freedom_is_chaos: LOL!
11:34<freedom_is_chaos>I think fo0bar needs better regex
11:35<tjfontaine>I think not
11:35<freedom_is_chaos>only mike responded the lol
11:35<freedom_is_chaos>unless fo0 didn't think it was all that funny
11:36<Pryon>I think it's a mistake to call something that causes even more bots to respond to that phrase as "better"
11:37-!-daMaestro [] has joined #linode
11:39<linbot>kelvinq: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
11:39<linbot>freedom_is_chaos: (plugin <command>) -- Returns the plugin(s) that <command> is in.
11:39<kelvinq>i don't understand fo0bar
11:40<Lustre>just curious but anyone here got experience with Teamspeak :/
11:40<freedom_is_chaos>set it up once or twice
11:40<freedom_is_chaos>^ look I used set up properly
11:40<Lustre>ok ive set it up following and i want to add a superadmin for someone
11:40<Lustre>but i cant get on superadmin page
11:40<tjfontaine>freedom_is_chaos: fail
11:41<Lustre>i set HTTPServer Enabled=1 back to 1
11:41<freedom_is_chaos>netstat -tap
11:41<freedom_is_chaos>make sure it's listening on 14534
11:41<tjfontaine>and on more than
11:41<freedom_is_chaos>that too
11:42<Lustre>uh i get nothing about TS
11:42<freedom_is_chaos>have you started it?
11:42<kelvinq>hmph. anyone kind to explain what's teamspeak? i looked around.
11:42<Lustre>TS is started ,im chatting on it now :P
11:43<Lustre>do i need to restart it? I didnt think i had too
11:43<freedom_is_chaos>teamspeak: voip application that allows for multiple people to chat. Imagine IRC but with voices
11:43<aaronpk>freedom_is_chaos: you took the words right out of my mouth. or is it out of my fingers.
11:44<freedom_is_chaos>don't mind if I nmap you real fast Lustre?
11:44<Lustre>no idea what it is so go for it
11:45<Pryon>Hold on to your shorts, pal
11:45-!-Mojo1978 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:45<Pryon>(just kiddig)
11:45<Lustre>You're dealing with the noobiest of noob.
11:45<freedom_is_chaos>port scanner:
11:45<freedom_is_chaos>Starting Nmap 4.53 ( ) at 2008-09-30 11:45 EDT
11:45<freedom_is_chaos>Interesting ports on (
11:45<freedom_is_chaos>PORT STATE SERVICE
11:45<freedom_is_chaos>14534/tcp closed unknown
11:46<freedom_is_chaos>nmap == linux port scanner
11:46<tjfontaine>well s/linux//
11:46<freedom_is_chaos>well windows too, but that version sucks
11:46<Lustre>so its not listning
11:46<tjfontaine>not externally
11:46<freedom_is_chaos>Lustre: distro?
11:46<tjfontaine>netstat -aln | grep 14534
11:47<Lustre>[16:46:19] <tjfontaine> netstat -aln | grep 14534 - doesnt do anything
11:47<Lustre>visually ;p
11:48<kelvinq>i just thought of a cool swear - "Why don't you go PING yourself?"
11:48<freedom_is_chaos>check your config, might be helpful if you posted it here:
11:48<Lustre>i have a config?
11:49<Lustre>the server.ini file?
11:50<Lustre>o wait.
11:50<Lustre>if i added someone to server admin
11:50<Lustre>by right clicking their name
11:50<Lustre>is it perm?
11:51<freedom_is_chaos>I think it is just temp
11:51<freedom_is_chaos>I, honestly, can't remember
11:51<Lustre>ok ill pb
11:51<Lustre> - linodes pastebin kept asking me for a pass then doing nothing ;p
11:53<@tasaro>read the text -- it tells you the username/password to enter
11:53<freedom_is_chaos>try setting your BoundTOIP1=
11:54<Lustre>do i need to restart anything for this to take effect?
11:54<Lustre>what do i need to restart.
11:54<Lustre>ill try
11:54<freedom_is_chaos>did you create the init file from the skeleton file?
11:54<freedom_is_chaos>like in the ubuntu tutorial
11:55<Lustre>thanks it works now
11:55<Lustre>/etc/init.d/teamspeak stop/start
11:55<freedom_is_chaos>basic newbie mistake
11:56<freedom_is_chaos>yup, when you make a server.ini change, you need to stop/start it
11:56<freedom_is_chaos>nothing to be ashamed of, everyone starts somewhere
11:57<Lustre>one last noob question
11:57<Lustre>is it dodgy giving others superadmin - like its for a gaming clan.. i trust them, but can they do halm?
11:57<m0unds>they can delete you from the server, they can delete other users, they can lock you out so you have to reconfigure
11:58<tjfontaine>haxort he gibsons
11:58<freedom_is_chaos>good answer
11:58<Lustre>yeah but i can just stop teamspeak altogether
11:58<m0unds>HAX TEH PLANAT
11:58<freedom_is_chaos>as he just said, reconfigure.
11:58<m0unds>give yourself access to superadmin if you need it
11:58<m0unds>any other person, if you want them to have some control, adjust their roles to a sane level
11:59<freedom_is_chaos>if they don't like it, meh.
11:59<m0unds>so they can set people to register or whatever but not make any material changes to the configuration of the tss2 server
11:59<m0unds>if they don't like it, password the server and tell them to f-themselves
11:59<m0unds>that's my policy
12:00<Lustre>i just click their name > edit > password > superadmin?
12:00<Lustre>like me
12:00<Lustre>i got one nick as Superadmin, which is superadmin, then me as normal admin i believe.
12:00<Lustre>sorry i suck XD
12:00<freedom_is_chaos>I haven't been in the admin console of a TS server in a long time, but I think that is right.
12:00-!-SelfishMan [] has quit [Quit: SelfishMan]
12:00<freedom_is_chaos>change the pass on the default accounts if you haven't already
12:01<freedom_is_chaos>both admin, and superadmin
12:01<freedom_is_chaos>keep them good thing.
12:01<freedom_is_chaos>>12 characters, a-zA-z0-9!-)
12:04<freedom_is_chaos>how long does a A record take on the linode NS to propagate?
12:04<freedom_is_chaos>or a record in general
12:04<tjfontaine>zones that have changed are regenerated every 15mins
12:04<tjfontaine>and then slaves are notified
12:04<freedom_is_chaos>it's been about 30 now/
12:04-!-xitology [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:04<m0unds>maybe your DNS provider hasn't updated
12:04<tjfontaine>your ttl may be high enough that you don't see it yet
12:04<tjfontaine>what is the record?
12:04<m0unds>or that
12:05<freedom_is_chaos>it is the default ttl
12:05<freedom_is_chaos>yeah, must be my dns server.
12:05<aaronpk>if you're waiting for it just to do some development on your own, you can edit your /etc/hosts file to point it manually
12:05<tjfontaine>if that's your debian repo it should be on the private network, not the public :)
12:06<freedom_is_chaos>I know my roommate set it up to be propagating DNS records on our local dns server
12:06<freedom_is_chaos>maybe it is still cached there.
12:06<freedom_is_chaos>I'll have to get him to update the intervals
12:06<freedom_is_chaos>tj: it is an external webpage to set it up.
12:06<freedom_is_chaos>but requires a 192.x address to connect to.
12:07<freedom_is_chaos>vsftpd is bound to my internal address
12:07<freedom_is_chaos>mostly for an easy to remember webpage instead of hunting it down in the forums, maybe my reasoning is off.
12:08<tjfontaine>generally people opt for: debian.<domain>
12:08<freedom_is_chaos>I'll change it then :)
12:09<tjfontaine>I'd love to see something like: that resolves differently depending on the view :)
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12:09<linbot>freedom_is_chaos: Host not found.
12:10<tjfontaine>wait 15 at least for the zone to generate
12:10<freedom_is_chaos>yeah I know.
12:10<freedom_is_chaos>I was just testing it.
12:10<freedom_is_chaos>I'm never going back to apache now. lighttpd +mysql vhosts is the next killer app combo
12:10<tjfontaine>-mysql and I agree
12:12-!-Schroeder [] has joined #linode
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12:17<freedom_is_chaos>I love my grotesque html skills.
12:17<m0unds>the horror!
12:18<freedom_is_chaos>I keep it simple, mainly because I don't know enough to make it pretty
12:18<linbot>freedom_is_chaos: Host not found.
12:18<freedom_is_chaos>after this, I can go to bed.
12:19<freedom_is_chaos>and kick my cat out of my bed >:D
12:19<m0unds>haha, cats are funny
12:20<freedom_is_chaos>but I don't know which is worse, a cat that can be easily amused, or being amused by watching and teasing a cat that is easily amused.
12:20<m0unds>whoops, i forgot to restart lighty last night
12:20<freedom_is_chaos>tsk tsk
12:20<freedom_is_chaos>why do you have to it nightly?
12:20<m0unds>nah, i was messing with webmail last night
12:21<freedom_is_chaos>I gave up on my smtp server.
12:21<freedom_is_chaos>I couldn't get the damn thing to work.
12:21<m0unds>ah. i was upgrading roundcube
12:21<freedom_is_chaos>does that even compare to squirrelmail?>
12:21<m0unds>squirrel is less pretty but still very, very functional
12:21<freedom_is_chaos>I saw a few screenshots of it awhile back
12:22<m0unds>it's been alright
12:22<aaronpk>it's shiny
12:22<m0unds>i might end up going back to horde
12:23<m0unds>but for now, it's alright. i only use webmail @ work.
12:23<daniel>Does anyone have a good my.cnf setup for a linode360?
12:23<m0unds>horde's got a bunch of other features and uses less gayjax and stuff
12:23<daniel>freedom_is_chaos, have you tried nginx?
12:23<m0unds>but it's not as pretty
12:23<freedom_is_chaos>dan: I was thinking of it, but never got around to it. I might mess with it on my internal server
12:24<freedom_is_chaos>do you use it?
12:24<daniel>I'm trying to look on how to switch from apache (LAMP) to LEMP (nginx) or to lighttpd.
12:25<daniel>No, I tried using it, but it ended up...not working :S heh
12:25<freedom_is_chaos>I currently use lighttpd without any regrets
12:25<m0unds>lighttpd is good stuff
12:25<daniel>Yeah lighttpd sounded good, but I mean, if you can get better why not go for it? :P
12:25<m0unds>i still use apache, but lighttpd is nice
12:25<aaronpk>i was just looking at the documentation for lighttpd, the mod_rewrite syntax looks nice
12:26<freedom_is_chaos>once lightty gets a bit bigger community that can produce it faster and better, and not let feature-creep slide in. I think they have a great chance against apache
12:27<daniel>Why dont they already have agreat chance against apache? I've only heard about good things from lighttpd never bad ones :P
12:27-!-ph^ [~ph^] has joined #linode
12:27<freedom_is_chaos>Several things don't work on it.
12:27<schmichael>daniel: lighttpd has had some memory leaks and security vulns iirc
12:27<freedom_is_chaos>that too.
12:28<schmichael>apache is definitely more "trusted" i would say
12:28<freedom_is_chaos>apache has had its far share as well.
12:28<freedom_is_chaos>schmichael, because it has been around longer.
12:28<schmichael>i'm just saying that means something
12:29<schmichael>apache has a pretty damn good reputation for stability and security
12:29<schmichael>even if it is a bit of a dinosaur anymore
12:29<m0unds>too bad it's fat
12:29<schmichael>its not like its sendmail
12:30<schmichael>apache doesn't even have to be that fat
12:30<m0unds>nah, it doesn't
12:30<schmichael>its just most people run php, python, etc. in process
12:30<schmichael>so it makes apache look really fat
12:30<schmichael>but running those modules in process almost always has performance benefits over fastcgi and friends
12:31<freedom_is_chaos>so long as you have the resources to keep up.
12:31<m0unds>i could probably get away with running all my services on a 360, but i prefer having room to move
12:31<schmichael>the author of mod_wsgi and the author of cherokee had a great discussion about this on cherokee's mailing list
12:32<freedom_is_chaos>is cherokee a fork somewhere?
12:32<schmichael>its like lighttpd only clean and beautiful :D
12:32<freedom_is_chaos>I saw it on a few weeks ago I think.
12:32<freedom_is_chaos>or I found it somewhere
12:32<m0unds>it has the worst logo ever
12:33<schmichael>did you see the logo tried to roll out?
12:33<schmichael>i'm guessing not ;)
12:33<daniel><schmichael> but running those modules in process almost always has performance benefits over fastcgi and friends <-- Like..?
12:33<Pryon>worse than Lucent's "flaming a-hole"?
12:33<daniel>m0unds, i was just looking at that haha do u have exp with chero?
12:33<schmichael>i like the little cherokee
12:34<schmichael>daniel: when you have out-of-process app servers (like via fastcgi) your piping data around which is always slower than just working in a single process like apache+mod_php/python/perl
12:34<schmichael>but usually that performance difference is negligable considering you're already dealing with a scripting language
12:35<schmichael>so its not like piping vs. in-process is where the bottleneck is anyway
12:35<freedom_is_chaos>it might go better if you can dedicate cores to each server though.
12:35<schmichael>freedom_is_chaos: nope, apache is either multi-process or multi-thread, so it'll use cores just as well
12:36<schmichael>especially since no scripting language really does multithreading well anyway
12:36<freedom_is_chaos>whereas, with lighttpd I could make fastcgi run on a separate chip (given dual cpu)
12:36<schmichael>..yeah i guess..
12:36<freedom_is_chaos>it could keep things rather fast.
12:36<freedom_is_chaos>well faster than they already are.
12:36<schmichael>how would it be any faster than apache using multiple cores?
12:36<freedom_is_chaos>I don't know honestly.
12:37<freedom_is_chaos>never stress tested it.
12:37<schmichael>yeah, either system takes advantage of multi-cores/cpus equally well
12:37<daniel>Is chero stable though...?
12:37<linbot>freedom_is_chaos: Host not found.
12:37<schmichael>daniel: meh, not stable enough for me yet, but neither is lighttpd ;)
12:37<m0unds>only one way to find out
12:38<linbot>freedom_is_chaos: Host not found.
12:38<m0unds>i like using lighttpd for static stuff
12:38<daniel>schmichael, right do you know if any "big" websites have used it?
12:38<schmichael>m0unds: yeah, thats where the in-process apache system sucks
12:38<schmichael>m0unds: because you have a 60mb apache process serving a 5k css file
12:39<daniel>And yeah, anyone have a good my.cnf setup for a l360?
12:40<schmichael>daniel: no clue. i only use cherokee on my local dev machine at the moment... just to keep up with it so i can switch my production stuff to it if i ever trust it enough ;)
12:41<freedom_is_chaos>my curiosity I have to ask, what do you do?
12:41<daniel>freedom_is_chaos, me?
12:41<freedom_is_chaos>to schmichael
12:43<schmichael>i'm a python web developer
12:43<m0unds>mmmm, python
12:43<freedom_is_chaos>oh nice.
12:43<schmichael> is the tiny little company my buddy & i started but each of us kind of have our own major contract that keeps us busy
12:44<freedom_is_chaos>I've been slowly learning python. Recently taken by the stanford see stuff for Java for now.
12:44<schmichael>we're hoping to focus more on our own stuff at the future, but right now we gotta pay the bills ;)
12:44<freedom_is_chaos>that's cool.
12:44<schmichael>there's lots of python jobs out there if you learn it
12:44<schmichael>yeesh, pycon was like a job fair
12:45<schmichael>at the same time, i think java/php/perl still rule the market
12:46<schmichael>with out there in 4th if you really hate yourself
12:46<schmichael>(webdev wise)
12:46<tjfontaine> is a really nice toolkit
12:46<tjfontaine>I prefer it to php
12:47<schmichael>i prefer dying by acid to dying by fire too
12:47<aaronpk>actually i really like C#
12:47<tjfontaine>indeed, type safety is nice
12:47<daniel>Visual C++ .NET is the best :P
12:47<schmichael>i like c# as well... did it a lot a few years ago
12:47<freedom_is_chaos>I'm off to bed, night guys
12:47<freedom_is_chaos>or afternoon I guess, I'm in EST
12:47<aaronpk>i feel like i'm using a real language when i'm writing in C# as opposed to php
12:47<daniel>Hmm I may try this cherokee thing
12:48<schmichael>aaronpk: no kidding
12:48<schmichael>i know you *can* write good code with php
12:48<tjfontaine>prove it :)
12:48<schmichael>but that doesn't mean i ever want to try
12:48<aaronpk>php 5 was a huge improvement
12:48<tjfontaine>fake OOP always helps
12:48<schmichael>i started out in php, but i never want to go back
12:48<aaronpk>but i still prefer strongly typed
12:48<tjfontaine>strongly typed can be a pain for fast web development
12:49<tjfontaine>but always prevent's quite a few of those 'doh' moments
12:49<tjfontaine>it's always fun though to see listbox's filled with typeof()'s though
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13:05-!-ella [] has joined #linode
13:05<ella>Just a quick question - really stupid one really, but hey :)
13:06<ella>That nice 20% more disk space Linode gave to everyone that I didn't know about till today (smirk) I just created a new Disk IMage with it to mount as a backup
13:06<ella>but I can't for th elife of me work out the device name
13:06*ella laughs
13:07<exor|school>ella: you have to associate it with one of the /dev/.... entries in your config profile
13:07<ella>And on a finer note, once I mount my disk, anyone using 3 UK Mobile Boradband that wants to knwo the seceret to what seems unlimited data usage to their linode drop me a line!
13:07<DephNet[Paul]>20% more space?
13:07<ella>exor|school ok
13:07<exor|school>then reboot
13:07<ella>Ohh reboot? Really
13:07*ella doesn't like rebooting
13:07<path->3 times
13:08<ella>Well exactly, I might as well if I have to reboot
13:08<ella>I sadly was 'rebooted' this morning first time since being a LInode client
13:08<ella>rather pissed off cause half my services did't come back online
13:09<ella>OK so tell me - where do I find this 'config profile'
13:09<ella>At the web based Dashboad I can see my new image
13:09-!-IntuitiveNipple [] has joined #linode
13:10*ella has never reboot her limode before, just installed on the first day (3 mins effort) and spent 4 days ftping the server data up a very slow broadband (ough) link
13:10<IntuitiveNipple>caker: do you have a couple mins?
13:11<ella>Ok cound config profile :)
13:12<exor|school>I last rebooted to upgrade plans
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13:13<ella>I'm not use to rebooting!
13:13<tjfontaine>tj world, interesting
13:13<ella>Had my old server farm running for 3 years, only one PSU blew up
13:14<ella>Never had a hacker, root kit or anything else since, um, 1988 :)
13:14<ella>Only had a php vulnerability once, through an applicaiton that I hadn't fully screened first - never again.
13:14<ella>Mind you seen polenty of attemtps!
13:14<exor|school>heh, ella, I had a aincent machine running at home pushing my packets, and due to a convoluted sequence of events that led to water pouring into my UPS, that tripped out
13:14<exor|school>and the hard drive was dead when I tured it back on haha
13:15-!-m0unds [] has quit [Quit: SPLITTERS! SPLITTERS! SPLITTERS!]
13:15<ella>exor! I can relate to that!
13:15<exor|school>(by aincent I mean like, a 99MHz with 24MB of RAM)
13:15<ella>When I moved house after ten years, I turned on two of the old machines and the hard drives didn't come up!
13:15<exor|school>I like using ooooold things to push packets
13:15<ella>Mine were 486's :) THe 386 running a very early ersion of linux and early version of Bind 4 was fine :)
13:16<ella>I had my 'new' web server PSU blow up after 18 months typical of 2000's technology!
13:16<ella>Ahh well those were the days
13:17<ella>now days, I have to admit, things like Linode just make life pleasurable :)
13:17<ella>No humming fans :)
13:17<IntuitiveNipple>I found the circuit diagrams and repair manuals for sonclair Spectrum and Acorn Atom in my loft yesterday!
13:17<ella>A double VPN from home or a single VPN from whereever I am to Linode and out to the world!
13:17<IntuitiveNipple>Now *those* would have been great servers :)
13:17<ella>IntuitiveNipple ROFL!
13:17<exor|school>ella: I have an 8088 sitting around somewhere
13:18<ella>Well I sadly put $180,000 worth of gear and 20 years of It history into a compactor truck in Feb - I won't even begin to list things that got crushed :(
13:18-!-SelfishMan [~SelfishMa@] has joined #linode
13:18<exor|school>but 1. I can't find a DOS Disk, 2. I think the IO card is cooked
13:18<ella>exor|school I had Mica's and sc4500s
13:18<exor|school>but the thing attempts to POST
13:18<IntuitiveNipple>exor|school: Use FreeDos :)
13:18<ella>I can image you a dos disk if you like :0
13:18<ella>In fact I have them on my server :0
13:18<exor|school>heh, that still poses a problem with putting it on a 5" disk
13:18<ella>I've dot DOS 1.0 through 6.2
13:18<Eman> can get you a dos disk
13:19<exor|school>or 5.whatever
13:19<ella>No not at all!
13:19<tjfontaine>at the sacrifice of kittehs
13:19<ella>You can get a flash Adapter that connects to a floppy interface!
13:19<IntuitiveNipple>Ahhh, I found a bunch of 5.25" disks *and* a drive, in the loft, too :)
13:19<Lustre>freedom_is_chaos, you here?
13:19<ella>I have acouple of drives in a shipping box, just in case I needed one :)
13:19-!-privet [] has joined #linode
13:20<ella>Actualy it's a 5.25" and 3.5" combined slim line drive
13:20<path->pxelinux can boot dd images of dos disks
13:20-!-pmw [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:20<path->if you have a pxe capable nic
13:20<Eman> hehehehe
13:20<nicktastic>Hmm I think the kernel on my node ran away with the CPU a few nights ago.
13:20<path->or you could use isolinux if you had a cdrom
13:20<ella>CROM on an 8088? Or 8086! Nah :)
13:20<path->just sayin
13:20<ella>I thikn the BIOS would freak :)
13:21<geo>Cool.... Google translates parsecs to lightyears
13:21<IntuitiveNipple>boot it from the serial port :)
13:21<ella>I suspect an 8088 wouldn't boot from a serial port :)
13:21<tjfontaine>Eman: I used to have tons of those cases here
13:21<ella>You could just recode the BIOS :)
13:21<exor|school>omg, speaking of convoluted boot methods, on that 99MHz machine
13:21<Eman>tjfontaine: im looking for another :p
13:21<exor|school>I had to loadlin from Win95 to get into the LInux installer
13:22<ella>I had to work out how to install a new image into my NX7100 Hp Lappy the other week, ok wasn't too hard, just made a flash drive image :0
13:22<ella>Heheh I got a oshiba lappy here runing WIn 95 - till :0
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13:23<Eman>my linuxized 486 requires loadlin to boot
13:23<tjfontaine>ella: your keyboard is broken
13:23<ella>No it's my finger nails :0
13:23<Eman>grub and lilo both freak out
13:23<tjfontaine>ella: you broke a nail?
13:23<ella>No, long nails ::)
13:23<ella>They make me think I've hit the key, but really I haven't
13:24<ella>and no, won't cut them!
13:24<ella>mind you I have a fe broken ones the last few weeks from moving house :(
13:24-!-m0unds [] has joined #linode
13:24<ella>If only that was as easy as packing a dozen lappys into a bag or two and carrying them away
13:24<exor|school>ella: superglue a little stick to your fingertip just as long as your nail
13:25*IntuitiveNipple thinks he hit the time-warp, and tucks his knees in tight!
13:26<ella>so I shoudl just resize and reboot huh
13:26<ella>and hope everything comes up this time
13:27<ella>gotta love network providees that say they can't support OpenVPN
13:27<ella>what they mean is they don't count UDP traffic :)
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13:30<IntuitiveNipple>I prefer ClosedVPN :p
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13:36<mysty>I heard about tunneling through ICMP - which sounds like a fun way to get free internet access in airports etc
13:36-!-bcc [] has joined #linode
13:36<mysty>need to untunnel at a linode or something
13:37<exor|school>tunneling traffic over DNS? that seems hackish
13:38<mysty>distributed tunneling>? yeah
13:39<mysty>thats icmp though
13:39<exor|school>I really need to find a way around my schools craptacular net where it drops me and requires me to re-accept every 15 minutes
13:40<mysty>not sure how tunneling in dns could work..
13:40<mysty>exor|school: sounds like teh suck
13:41<exor|school>and has slow as heck DNS... haha, I generally tunnel over SSH and then have to flip off my proxy, re-auth, then reconnect SSH and re-proxy every 15 mins QQ
13:42<m0unds>how about putty?
13:42<exor|school>mac user :P
13:42*mysty is unenvious
13:42<ella>My tunnel is fine, not even counting data use at the service provider :) so I'm happy, I made some tricky tweaks, cause it was reauthing ever 2 mins when their UDP timouts took place
13:43<ella>Prob with icmp is its often blocked and often dropped
13:43<m0unds>i use an ssh tunnel at work to get around their stupid "watchdog" software
13:43<m0unds>60 minute session reauthentication
13:43<ella>what about tunneling on ftp ports?
13:43<m0unds>it classifies stuff based on content ratings, ala 1990s net nanny
13:44<ella>Yes so did 3 - I coudln't access half my favourite web sites, so I gave up after waiting for them to 'authenticate' me for four days and well here I am!
13:44<exor|school>yaknow this seems so wrong..
13:44<ella>Oh and I put an 8:1 compression on my tunnel :)
13:44<ella>So instaed of 3GB a month (if it ever starts counting again!) I have 24 :)
13:44<ella>ish :)
13:45<mysty>ella: is that over a 3G wireless kind of setup?
13:45<ella>Dont you hate Necessity being the mother of innovation!
13:45<exor|school>the little auth page is
13:45<ella>3G USB dongle on the HP NX7100 lappy running Linux :0
13:45<exor|school>isn't that kinda, meant for something ELSE?
13:45<mysty>thats one sweet way of getting 3G - free :)
13:45<ella>exor|school I was using some wifi hotspots last year and got around that
13:45<ella>mysty well it seems to be working just fine
13:46<exor|school>ella: I kinda just wish my school would be done with it and just let students log in to a protected AP with WPA(2) Enterprise with your student ID
13:46<ella>I moved 700 MBs last night and my usage was at 2867.88 when I started, I've been online all day today and its still there :0
13:46<mysty>ella: dang, I gotta try and do that. Im on 3G now, at the least the comp is paying for it. But I want to resign
13:46<ella>exor|school honey you are talking about an IT department being INTELLIGENT!
13:47<mysty>and then still use it, er, free
13:47<exor|school>heh yeah, I've even tried hacking the <school>admin accesspoint
13:47<ella>My sweetie works at a High school and she's been waiting 4 weeks for her lappy (issued by the IT Department) to be connected to the school network so she can use the smart boards!
13:47<ella>Oh and they only have demo software on the lappy anyway
13:47<exor|school>well, by hacking I mean entering random crap (including my studentid) into the WPA2 euth dialog
13:47<ella>And she can't do electronic registration of students
13:47<m0unds>wouldn't it be hilarious if the AP logged failed access attempts?
13:48<exor|school>haha probably does as its a RADIUS server
13:48<exor|school>(Well that's how WPA2 Enterprise works)
13:48<ella>Yes but it's 'failed' so no Genuis IT Professional looks at the failed logs!
13:48<m0unds>seems like they don't want you using it, and trying to gain access using your own student id doesn't seem like the best id
13:48<exor|school>yeah hah, I tried once :P
13:49<ella>have you tried sniffing :)
13:49<ella>After all WAP and WEP aren't that hard to crack
13:49<exor|school>hrm I might try that haha
13:49<ella>PDA, CF wifi card - away you go :0
13:49<exor|school>if it was WEP I would
13:49<ella>Shame th iPhone's wifi won't act like a router for a bluetooth or USB connection!
13:50<m0unds>boo, jesus phone
13:50<exor|school>heh, I'd totally tether to my iPhone if I wasn't afraid of AT&T
13:50<tjfontaine>yay jesus phone
13:50<exor|school>*EDGE* was faster then <school>student
13:50<tjfontaine>I've used my iphone to tether (FOAD att)
13:50<avongauss>does that make the G1 the devils phone?
13:50<m0unds>i'd say the G1 is the devil's phone without any comparison to another device
13:50<ella>Why what['s AT&T got to say about the iPhone
13:50<tjfontaine>avongauss: actually agnostic phone
13:50<ella>G1? Is this the new Google phone?
13:50<exor|school>now that I've got a 3G, 3G is insane compared to my school AP
13:51<ella>Ooooo, no thank you!
13:51<tjfontaine>ella: tethering is forbaded with the iphone
13:51<ella>I'm starting to prize my old technology !
13:51<Battousai>tjfontaine: asinine
13:51<m0unds>i'm alright with my blackberry
13:51<tjfontaine>use your phone as a 'modem'
13:51<ella>People stil use blackberrys!
13:51<avongauss>okay, agnonstic sounds fair, but what the heck can the devil use then?
13:51<ella>Ahhh, how pathetic is that!
13:51<tjfontaine>Battousai: yes
13:51<ella>Anyway how will they know!
13:51<Battousai>anyway, the tethering plans with att are like $80/mo
13:51<tjfontaine>ella: usage mostly
13:51<Battousai>it's ridiculous
13:51<ella>I use my Nokia 6120 as a Modem :) Best invention ever!
13:52<ella>Do download a lot of 3 min movies from :)
13:52<ella>I like dmy 6120 so much I got a 2nd one!
13:52<ella>Just not happy with 3UK's customer service compared to Aus it truely sucks
13:52<exor|school>what I love, though hahah
13:53<ella>THey were wiling to keep me on the phone for 3 HOURS (thank god for AA battery charg modules in the handbag!) teling me that I used £12 of Broadband BEFORE activating my 'add on' 3 GB
13:53<ella>Funny enough the add on was added at 20 past midnight and the 'alleged usage' was at 23:20
13:53<mysty>ella: so your tunnel terminates on a linode or something? Any clues on how you do the wrapping / unwrapping?
13:53-!-SelfishMan [~SelfishMa@] has joined #linode
13:53<ella>I had them tell me the CLOCKs on their Radius, SQL, Accounting and Audit Servers - all were out by an hour invariable
13:53<exor|school>when they have the in-classroom laptop carts.. that have on-bard access points
13:54<exor|school>er onboard --- and those are unprotected (fully, not even MAC protected)
13:54<ella>mysty, well basically I use OpenVPN, with a few mods (16384 bit encryption of content, and a few other things)
13:54<SelfishMan>FUCK DELL
13:54<exor|school>and ocerrides the auth page
13:54<ella>I have a Linux server here with the USB Dongle (E160G) on it
13:54*ella backs away fro mthe DELL
13:55<mysty>so OpenVPN has an option to wrap in UDP?
13:55<ella>a straight and simple pppd connection - in fact so much easier than even trying to dial a land line modem!
13:55<ella>OpenVPN works best in UDP
13:55<mysty>actually UDP wrapping is a standard way of doing NAT traversal
13:55<SelfishMan>mysty: OpenVPN prefers UDP mode and that is default as I recall
13:55<ella>myth unles syou use IPSEC!
13:55<ella>which is what 3 told me I HAD to use
13:55<SelfishMan>Nobody uses IPSEC anymore
13:55<ella>Anyway, Linux here connets to linode server
13:56<ella>3UK insist you use it! It's TCP - they count TCP, not UDP :)
13:56<mysty>yeah I got it. SO they can sue you now - lolz
13:56<ella>So once that tunnel i built, I hav a default route that pumps everything across it - a proxy server on my Linode so my sweetie and kids can adccess the net
13:56<ella>Masquerading here and there to translate
13:57<ella>No they can't sue me!
13:57<mysty>well, thats kind of what I meant. the iorony in my tone was lost
13:57<ella>THey have made it clear in sevral recorde dohone calls they do not support UDP and they do not filer UDP but they can not guarantee UDP traffic
13:57*ella laughs
13:57<mysty>must be a side effect oif udp wrapping
13:58<ella>For sweetie and my lappys we have OpenVPN under Win XP creating a route for a private domain name on the VPN subnet
13:58<ella>we use that for all email, ssh sessions and web browsing.
13:58<avongauss>udp, by definition, is not guaranteed.
13:58<mysty>I REALLY like this idea. Wonder if Vodafone UK meter in the same way
13:58<ella>avongauss correct, except when you ut TCP packets in it :0
13:58<ella>mysty i can't say, but what you got to loose1
13:58<ella>Just don't share it too far hate them to find out!
13:58<mysty>avongauss: yeah but the TCOP session within it takes care of retransmits
13:58<avongauss>actually, no, its the TCP session layer that is responsible for dealing with the faults. UDP is not guaranteed.
13:59<ella>Oh and I compress 8:1 (or a best as possible) so I get more bang for my sterling :0
13:59*mysty nods
13:59<SelfishMan>"Because your drive shows as a letter in My Computer it means that the drive is working fine and can read discs"
13:59-!-tjfontaine [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (This nickname is registered and protected))]
13:59<ella>avongauss CORRECT, except when you VPN, you put a TCP packet inside the UDP, when it gets to the other end it appears as TCP, if the sequence ID is wrong, it sends a request for the packet again
13:59<m0unds>wow. IT'S IN MY COMPUTER, IT MUST BE FINE
14:00<IntuitiveNipple>"Because your book is listed in the library catalogue it means the book is on the shelf and hasn't had pages torn out"
14:00<mysty>avongauss: I think we are saying the same thing. Anyway, you can end up with double retransmits if you wrap TCP in TCP
14:00<avongauss>thats the VPN "mechanism" that manages the reliability, not UDP.
14:01<ella>UDP is just the 'costly' extra overhead to do something that should work fine otherwise
14:01<ella>BTW I have tried, and tried and tried (recuring) to get OpenVPN to work over the 3G here in TCP mode, but it failes to even negotiate.
14:01<SelfishMan>I'm yelling at the guy now
14:01<ella>Yet in Aus, no problems
14:01<mysty>we use 8 bytes on a hardware products that warps IPsec in UDP for NAT traversal
14:01<SelfishMan>I've been on *this* call for over an hour
14:01<mysty>8 bytes of USP that is
14:01-!-SchrodingersCat [] has joined #linode
14:01<ella>SelfishMan welcome to Genius IT techs!
14:02<SelfishMan>The first two transferred me to a number that has been disconnected and told me to call a different number
14:02<SelfishMan>I'm so pissed I'm actually shaking right now
14:02<ella>Hey you can call 3 UK Support for me next time!
14:02<ella>Every time I call or use their chat service now, they tell me I have to use a CHARGED number - cause I keep the on the phone beyond the script and PASTE logs and packet contents at them!
14:03<ella>But I figure a long as this lasts I'll be happy, when thyey break it, I'll change networks, or hopefully WiMax might exist
14:03<SelfishMan>"It is an operating system error so we will not send you a new drive"
14:03<mysty>dont hold your breath
14:04<mysty>SelfishMan: oh dear... time for Spinrite
14:04<IntuitiveNipple>ella: Are you using that as your primary Internet connection?
14:04<ella>Is this by any chance a Seagate 750 GB Baracuda?
14:04<ella>IntuitiveNipple yes I am
14:04<IntuitiveNipple>SelfishMan: Test the device using Linux
14:04<mysty>Internat: I would be - lol
14:04<ella>I've been on mobile broadband since April last year
14:05<ella>It's realy fast too!
14:05<ella>ALthough that might be my 8:1 compression :)
14:05<IntuitiveNipple>ella: Is there a particular reason? Do you live mobile (RV or boat) ?
14:05<aaronpk>couldn't be seagate.. they have the best return policy
14:05<IntuitiveNipple>ella: Yeah, I roam on it from UK to Spain
14:05<m0unds>haha, steve gibson is teh interbutts wizard.
14:05<aaronpk>s/return policy/RMA program/
14:05<m0unds>are your shields up? (tm)
14:05<ella>Well I can't find a DSL package that is any good, I'm fairly mobile at times, last year we wer eon the road for nearly the whole year and had no choice, and this year we've changed countries and moved twice
14:05<exor|school>I'm glad the US doesn't do this stupid crap about "bandwidth limitz"
14:06<ella>banwidth limitz?
14:06<exor|school>or whatever
14:06<Xel>It will be doing that soon
14:06<ella>in Aus and the UK they COUNT your Bytes IN and OUT and charge yu for it!
14:06<m0unds>exor|school: it depends on your ISP, lots of them have a cap that 99.9% of their users will never reach
14:06<exor|school>being all "you can only transfer 5MB a month or we sue you"
14:06<mysty>you mean like comcast dont cap?
14:06<m0unds>so they don't disclose it
14:06<m0unds>comcast caps at 250GB
14:06<m0unds>if you're using that much, you need a business connection
14:06<ella>I have a 3 GB cap, after that I pay £15 a GB
14:07<ella>But I have rarely used 1Gb for myself, and the rest of the fmaily use about 1Gb combined
14:07<m0unds>at&t & sprint soft cap at 5GB
14:07<ella>I do miss the days of my 8 MB LMB :)
14:07<Xel>Folks who stream HD can get into some trouble with even higher bandwidth caps.
14:07<ella>But I have enjoyed some free Wifi around London at 54Mbs :)
14:08<ella>Well I don't download movies (except the ones I'm in copetition with!) I upload huge amounst of Digital video to Hollywood
14:08<ella>i dont do warez
14:08<ella>I don't ue any soial networks really
14:08<ella>I don'[t YouTube all day
14:09*ella is really boring
14:09<m0unds>good on ya..stupid social networking
14:09<exor|school>one of these days I'm gonna log where all my bandwidth goes
14:09<ella>I did that for years :)
14:10<exor|school>hehe, I'm not sure exactly how haha, I've used iftop temporarally when I think my net seems slow
14:10<ella>well type netacct
14:10<exor|school>to see if i have something else playing around with my internetz
14:10<ella>ifyou just want basic source dest and size data
14:10<exor|school>oh right doh, I knew that hhaa
14:10<ella>if you want more data then tcpdump with some nifty careufl settings will do the trick
14:10<aaronpk>i <3 ntop
14:10<exor|school>I just can't do it HERE as I'm at school
14:11<exor|school>not in my apartment
14:11*ella contemplates rebooting her linode for the extra 4 GB
14:11*SelfishMan looks for a Dell contact number of someone that would like to hear why they lost some business
14:11<exor|school>and (currently QQ) no way into my home network from here
14:11<exor|school>I need to fix that
14:11<ella>SelfishMan they dn't care cause they dump their stuff via TV ads
14:11<mysty>I played with ntop - kind nice
14:11-!-kelvinq [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]]
14:12<ella>and stupid people buy them in such volume they can't keep up with manufacture
14:12<SelfishMan>I know but I'm the type that will call the CEO at 3am if I have to
14:13<ella>Heheh I use to do that too :0
14:13<m0unds>look on to see if there's any executive contact info
14:13<m0unds>just search for dell, you might find a number you can call
14:14-!-SchrodingersCat [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:15<mysty>SelfishMan: seriously if its HDD problem, and you want to get some data back - try Spinrite
14:16<m0unds>haha, steve gibson is teh interbutts wizard.
14:16<m0unds>are your shields up? (tm)
14:16<SelfishMan>It isn't an HD problem, it is a DVD drive problem
14:16<SelfishMan>and steve gibson is an idiot
14:16<m0unds>yes he is
14:16<m0unds>i hate him
14:17<m0unds>that's why i was mocking him :D
14:17<mysty>yeah, gibson needs a hefty dose of salt but Ive saved a buch of disks with spinrite. So I went and bought me a copy
14:17<ella>most of the IT heads are people who studied like good people at Uni and have no clue about life, the universe or anything
14:17<ella>Which is why I retired from IT and keep getting offers from $500 to $10,000 a day to consult
14:18<mysty>SelfishMan: OK, I thought I saw Seagate up thehre earlier - ignorwe me
14:18<ella>Ohhh DVD drive!
14:18<SelfishMan>I contract with Seagate and trust me, there are much better tools than spinrite
14:18<ella>Cheaper to pop down to the local warehoue store and buy a new one, better and more functional!
14:18<SelfishMan>In fact, as someone that knows about drives I can tell you spinrite will cause more harm than good on a functioning drive
14:19<ella>I dont think I'll buy a segate again after my farmof 750 Barra's all started fading out after a few months
14:19<SelfishMan>I deal with the high end SAS and fiber channel drives
14:19<mysty>SelfishMan: interesting. you mean on a borked drive or a functioning one, or both?
14:19<m0unds>we've got 2000 seagate enterprise drives in service at work
14:19*ella sings 'she's so loverly, she's so loverly' gosh I love that song"
14:19<m0unds>and have nary a failure
14:19-!-sardyno [] has joined #linode
14:19<SelfishMan>Both but mostly a functioning one
14:20<jetlag>The probably with buying identical drives is that you're buying identical drives.
14:20<SelfishMan>m0unds: Your welcome
14:20<ella>jetlag yes :(
14:20<ella>But I buy in 2,4 or 8 quantities
14:20<aaronpk>ella: what do you use to house them all?
14:20<SelfishMan>A large part of the problem with the seagate consumer drives is that when they bought out maxtor they merged the teams
14:21<m0unds>maxtor sucked
14:21<m0unds>i have 0 maxtor drives that still function
14:21<mysty>maxtory REALLY did suck
14:21<ella>Oh fook, the PVR drive is full
14:21-!-xitology [~xi@] has joined #linode
14:21<m0unds>our old archive units used to use maxline ii & iii drives that failed left and right
14:21<SelfishMan>Maxtor used to lie and transparently remap sectors without logging the failure. This is a really bad practice and some of those people snuck in a few lines of code in the newer seagate consumer drives
14:21<SelfishMan>Many have firmware updates available to fix this
14:22<ella>well my barra's just click
14:22<mysty>SelfishMan: so the drives can bu unfixed back to proper mapping now?
14:22<ella>better knwon as 'the click of death'
14:22<exor|school>I have to wonder...
14:23<SelfishMan>ella: Yes and no. Drive sectors fail all the time but that is why there is slack space. It's in the nature of the medium. The issue is when you don't properly remap or you lie about remapping.
14:23-!-jraynes [] has joined #linode
14:23<ella>yes true, but that's not the 750Gb problem!
14:23<ella>THey are just bad drives
14:24<ella>Too many people have complained
14:24<SelfishMan>Maxtor liked to lie and didn't always remap properly causing massive bad sectors
14:24<aaronpk>uhoh..i may have just bought some of those 750gb drives
14:24<SelfishMan>And yes, that is the problem with the 750s
14:24<ella>And of coure Seagate are happy to charge you $1800 to recover your data!
14:24<ella>Even if its UNDER WARRANTYY!
14:24<mysty>SelfishMan: just my luck to offer spinrite advice to you heh? given your profession and all - lol
14:24<ella>so I'm slowly and painfuly recovering a 750 buy copying in parallel thousands of files at a time so that the timeouts don't happen :0
14:24<jraynes>anyone have a fax machine here? trying to test my new linode powered pbx
14:25<ella>I never did get fax working on my phone
14:25<SelfishMan>If the sector isn't remapped properly the heads freak out when they hit it and can cause a head reset basically, hence the "click of death"
14:25<aaronpk>jraynes: i have a virtual fax that can receive faxes
14:25-!-kenichi [] has joined #linode
14:26<ella>Yes SelfishMan sounds like the problem, but I can't fix it :(
14:27<SelfishMan>Check for the firmware update
14:27<ella>Fortuantley it's a EXT3 Drive under Mac OSX and mostly contains mass video files I can reproduce, it's the project files I@m worried about
14:27<ella>I tried that, no luck from where I looked
14:27<mysty>SelfishMan: so are the Seagate terabyte drives suffering the same bad remapping?
14:27<SelfishMan>They shouldn't but always check for new firmware
14:27<ella>I've got a Toshiba 80GB Lappy drive playing up now too for no reason
14:28<ella>I have a Samsung TB drive that so far seems OK
14:28-!-dwc [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:28<mysty>good to know. Im at the end of the line here
14:28*mysty gotta go
14:28<SelfishMan>Seagate is your best bet for drives but don't buy the latest models from anyone
14:28<ella>Ha! I need TB drives!
14:29<ella>Gota put something on the two 1820A Sata Controllers :0
14:29<SelfishMan>There are some that are just bad batches so if you do buy multiple identical drives then at least make sure they are a different batch number and not concurrent batches either
14:29<exor|school>ella: that's what you get for playing with movies
14:29<aaronpk>jraynes: i got the fax. fancy graphics and all!
14:29<ella>SelfishMan har to do sometimes
14:29-!-mysty [~mysty@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:29<ella>exor|school sadly being a film maker I have little choice :0
14:30<ella>Gee how do you get a fax running on Linode - now you have my interest :)
14:30<exor|school>I really wish I had fast drives....
14:30<exor|school>like really fast
14:30<ella>Crystal Memory :0
14:30<jraynes>its an asterisk based linux distro
14:30-!-r3z` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:30*ella clicks
14:30<jraynes>which has faxing built in, unlike trixbox
14:31<exor|school>I think my home compy could support dumping out full-size, 40fps (about as much as I can maintain when doing something I WANT to record) video from WoW
14:31<aaronpk>have you found a good sip provider?
14:31-!-r3z` [] has joined #linode
14:31<exor|school>but... the disk isn't fast 'nuff
14:31<ella>why woudl yo uwant 40fps? 24fps is far more inematic!
14:31<jraynes>My lindode is in NJ, teliax is in NYC so the latency is pretty good
14:32<ella>Ok I need to get these brats to bed
14:32<exor|school>ella: I don't think it'd even support dumping 24fps
14:32<ella>still thikning about resizing and rebooting
14:32<exor|school>I think that's over 50Mbit/sec with my window size
14:32-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
14:32<exor|school>and I've only managed to get away with writing 38
14:33<m0unds>install a second disk?
14:33*jraynes wonders why sending from my linode -> dad's fax machine is the only transmission that has problems
14:33<exor|school>heh, I guess I could :D
14:33<m0unds>is it maybe the baud rate of the transmission or something?
14:33<jraynes>yeah, i'm getting a weird error about being unable to train the remote modem
14:33<m0unds>i hate fax machines
14:34<jraynes>it went through eventually, but it took four trues
14:34<jraynes>m0unds: ditto
14:34<m0unds>i used to have an hp all-in-one and it never could receive faxes on the first try
14:34<jraynes>I'm actually doing this for my dad
14:34<m0unds>right on
14:34<jraynes>trying to free him from the evils of the shitty panasonic fax he has
14:34<Nivex>fax... how 80's
14:35<m0unds>too bad so many organizations require fax or mail to adhere to compliance regulations
14:35<jraynes>mainly the IRS
14:36<m0unds>i worked in IT for the mortgage credit industry for a few years and nearly all financial institutions that deal with the credit repositories require fax or mail
14:36<jraynes>not suprising
14:36<m0unds>it's for the better
14:36<jraynes>when i applied for my student loan they wanted me to fax my ID and the loan agreement to them
14:36<jraynes>wouldn't let me do it electronically
14:36<aaronpk>jraynes: what are the "internal" rates on teliax about? internal inbound and outbound minutes are free
14:37<m0unds>that's a good thing
14:37<m0unds>the way that lots of folks in that industry handle sensitive documents and stuff leaves a lot to be desired
14:37<m0unds>can't tell you how many times we caught people emailing credit reports back and forth and sending socials and cc#s via email
14:37<jraynes>aaronpk: I'm just using their pay-as-you-go service
14:37<aaronpk>yea i was looking at that one. do you know what counts as internal inbound?
14:38<jraynes>probably within their network
14:38-!-Schroeder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:38<ella>a fax is electronic!!!!!
14:39<Nivex>encryption 4tw!
14:39<ella>it is a scanned reproduction of the original
14:39<ella>in fact inferior
14:39<jraynes>another instance where faxes prevail is auto insurance
14:40<jraynes>when I got insurance for my scooter, they wouldn't let me print out my cards for some reason
14:40<jraynes>they were willing to fax it to the dealer though
14:40<aaronpk>you have to admit, it is more convenient than scanning then emailing a document
14:41<Nivex>some of the newer copiers will let you scan to email
14:41<aaronpk>and requires no more technical skills than using a telephone
14:41<jraynes>true, but I'm eliminating the whole machine aspect though
14:41<ella>that does it I'm geting an ice cream machine
14:42<ella>ice cream here isn't even CREAM! IT's 'rehydrated solidified wey powder"
14:42<m0unds>that sounds delicious
14:42<jraynes>isnt that the same stuff american cheese is made of?
14:42<m0unds>cheese in general
14:43<ella>at least it's better than alaskin ie crwam - made with lard and fish
14:45-!-tjfontaine [] has joined #linode
14:45<ella>Hmm, so do I enlarge my drive and reboot or do I reboot with a new image?
14:45<tjfontaine>whois flooders
14:46<aaronpk>i think you have to shut down, resize the disk image, then boot up again
14:47*jraynes checks the bandwith consumption of his linode
14:47<ella>either way, I have to reboot :0
14:47-!-Schroeder [] has joined #linode
14:47<ella>Mine is 11 Gb for this month :)
14:47<ella>Is that a lot?
14:47<ella>Mind you I see a lot o f ARP request for some 192.168 addresses
14:47<Battousai>i typically use about 3GB
14:48<@caker>ella: on eth0 ?
14:48<ella>In 5.33 out 6.31
14:48<aaronpk>mine is 38gb
14:48<ella>Hi caker :) Nice to meet you!
14:48<Battousai>200GB is a lot ;)
14:48<@caker>ella: hello
14:48<m0unds>i used hardly any bandwidth this month
14:48<ella>Caker, great product you have - really appreciate it existing when I was in crisis last year :)
14:48<m0unds>1.2GB inbound, 600MB outbound
14:49<ella>caker woudl you like spcific details?
14:49<jraynes>I havent even used a gig yet
14:50<@caker>ella: knowing which node is yours would help
14:50<ella>dallas 45
14:50<@caker>ok, but which Linode?
14:51<aaronpk>i'm seeing those arp requests too
14:51<aaronpk>arp who-has tell
14:51<ella>04:51:15.347630 arp who-has tell
14:52<aaronpk>mine is li9-91 on dallas70
14:52<ella>caker do you mean my account name: pruella on dallas45
14:53*ella blushes
14:53<ella>I had an arp storm earlier today, was really weird!
14:54<ella>It[s funny cause the server farm I mmigrated to linode used as a host IP for in internal 100Mbps server traffic :)
14:55-!-johnny [] has joined #linode
14:55*ella woudl hate to be a sysadmin on a VPM cross country network!
14:55<ella>be fun though :0
14:56<ella>All you geeky types geeking all the time :)
14:56<johnny>Hey i'm noob with linode. Could anybody tell me if it is possible to boot up multiple profiles on the same linode
14:56<aaronpk>not concurrently
14:56<johnny>cool is there a way to copy my disk image to another linode
14:57<@caker>johnny: yes. Settings and Utilities subusbtab --> clone
14:57<johnny>cool i'll give it a whirl
14:57<johnny>thanks guys
14:57<@caker>add another Linode to your account first :)
14:58<aaronpk>caker: my linode on newark21 is getting a bunch of similar arp packets too
14:58<ella>Add two for good measure :)
14:59<bd_>hmm, I've got some on newark9
14:59<ella>Soudns like soeone has put a 192 address on their visible ether :)
15:00*ella wishes she could route some of her class C subnets in :)
15:01-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
15:03<ella>05:03:11.025749 arp who-has tell
15:03<ella>05:03:11.617931 arp who-has tell
15:03<ella>busy little bugger!
15:04-!-binel [] has joined #linode
15:04<@caker>hmm .. ok, well is dallas45's internal IP
15:05<ella>Oh ok
15:05<ella>do you hve two ether if's or just one?
15:05<aaronpk>i see on dallas and on newark
15:06<@caker> dallas70
15:06<ella>I'm guessing 1.70 is dallas70 :)
15:06<@caker> newark21
15:06<ella>Ok so what is 135.10 ??
15:06<@caker> is a Linode's private IP on another host
15:06<@caker>which is strange
15:07<ella>No too critical, I still have 390GB of traffic to use each month :)
15:07<@caker>it appears as though broadcast traffic generated from the host a Linode is on bypasses my fancy ebtable rules
15:07<aaronpk>that probably doesn't count against the bandwidth because it's internal tho right?
15:07<@caker>no, anything on eth0 is counted
15:08<ella>caker, are there two eth if's in the hardware or just one?
15:08<@caker>why would that matter?
15:08<ella>Oh well I usually put a visible eth0 and an internal eth1 hence ensure that traffic is sepearate, but I've had this happen once before too
15:09<ella>Just trying to understand the phyical topology
15:09<bd_>caker: if all of the private network interfaces were bridged to a hardware interface on a different vlan, there wouldn't be leakage of broadcast requests, I guess
15:09<bd_>although you could still achieve this in software (linux supports vlan encapsulation...)
15:09<ella>05:09:34.385061 arp who-has tell
15:10<@caker>another user on your host
15:10<ella>not even in my subnet!
15:10-!-binel_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:11<ella>The joys of VLAN and VPMS :)
15:12<ella>thank goodness it's now Windows NT and Citrix
15:12<daniel>Is it better to do like SELECT .. WHERE field > 0 OR field2 =1 or should I do a union select instead of doing the OR clause?
15:12<daniel>not getting any responses in #mysql :|
15:12<tjfontaine>the query optimizer should be smart enough to handle it for you
15:12<tjfontaine>write queries until they have problems
15:13<daniel>heh alright, I have log slow queries on anyways :)
15:13<SelfishMan>daniel: OR should be fine. Simplest solution and mysql will optimize that just fine
15:13<ella>daniel I agree, nothing wrong with the query
15:13<tjfontaine>it's not an excuse to write bad queries, but you shouldn't spend too much time trying to find the 'fastest' way until you know it's a bottle neck
15:13<SelfishMan>Just make sure you have proper indexes and remember the EXPLAIN command is your friend
15:13<ella>test data both ways ether side of the OR
15:14-!-Lustre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:14<daniel>Yeah, alrighty thanks :) and I'll be using my explain command more often. Also my tuners ;)
15:14<ella>maybe you have no data :)
15:14-!-HedgeMage [] has quit [Quit: BRB, testing irssi config]
15:14<daniel>ella, its very possible, but not likely once the website is released heh :P
15:15-!-Lustre [] has joined #linode
15:21-!-Sindacious [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:21-!-Sindacious [] has joined #linode
15:22-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
15:29-!-weezy[blinkenshell] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:35-!-weezy[blinkenshell] [] has joined #linode
15:37<SelfishMan>daniel: If you are concerned about SQL performance you can always have someone else review everything
15:37<SelfishMan>Just don't pull a Twitter
15:38<SelfishMan>"Hey check out our kick-ass site....oh wait, it's down again"
15:38<tjfontaine>don't tell us when you're pulling your twitter mmk
15:38<SelfishMan>I thought that was "twittering" not "pulling a twitter"
15:39<daniel>SelfishMan, can I hire you in the future? :P
15:43-!-Levia [~Levia@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:45<tozz>bah, network dropout
15:45<tozz>just as I'm updating the site
15:48-!-jraynes [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:55*Schroeder is just so happy that the butt-ugly chick with the stupid name didn't win Jeopardy!
15:56*HoopyCat pulls his left twitter and is out for next Sunday's game against the Railtown Rubies
15:56-!-arooni-mobile [] has joined #linode
16:01<ella>caker are you about? I may have a security issue re my linode
16:02<ella>pm ok?
16:03<tjfontaine>ella: sure you can give me your root password, I promise to do no evil
16:12-!-meff [] has left #linode []
16:16*HoopyCat puts on his Whip Sobriety Now button, plants a Victory Hops Vine, and wraps his pint in a sweater
16:17<ella>Hmm strange I have no logs of any reboots prior to Lassie kicking in
16:18*path- likes the Hop Devil
16:19-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:19<HoopyCat>ella: are you pruella? :-)
16:21<ella>I'm not curel!
16:21<ella>unless you're a fool :)
16:26<tjfontaine>nope, just a tool
16:26*ella giggles
16:27-!-johnny [] has quit [Quit: johnny]
16:32-!-Lustre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33<ella>Anywa you'd need spots for me to be intersted :)
16:33<tjfontaine>what like liver spots
16:33<SelfishMan>ella is a furry?
16:34<tjfontaine>wow, you're number 2 on the internet to not know what that is
16:34<tjfontaine>you're better for not
16:34<ella>Is that a sexual fetish term?
16:34<SelfishMan>I didn't know until HoopyCat showed me
16:35<ella>showed? Ok now I'm interested :)
16:35<ella>do you do it on your head or whilst pushing bits across an eth0 port under a Linode?
16:35-!-Lustre [] has joined #linode
16:35<ella>ahhh ok, I kinda new that :)
16:36<ella>but in a slightly more explicit sense :)
16:37<ella>not sending me to a trojn now are you?
16:37<tjfontaine>is it shaped like a horse?
16:38<ella>cute comic, I can kinda relate to concept
16:38<tjfontaine>xkcd is an excellent geek comic
16:38<tjfontaine>as if there were non-geek comics
16:38<ella>Yes I've seen it a few times :0
16:38<aaronpk>if you haven't read xkcd you must read from the beginning
16:38<ella>Nooo, don't have that much tie left in my life!
16:38<emag>ella: we can delay the execution
16:39<emag>err, i mean, the accident
16:39<ella>you can control my kids?
16:39<emag>oh, here i was, thinking you knew about next tuesday
16:39<ella>what time do you arrive?
16:39<ella>Is that the day after next Monday
16:40<emag>for most of us
16:40<ella>damnit and I'm hust getting over this Tuesday
16:41-!-privet [] has joined #linode
16:44-!-MrRx7 [] has joined #linode
16:45<SelfishMan>Get a room you two
16:45<MrRx7>Anyone seen this before "Out of Memory: Kill process 2 (migration/0) score 0 and children" ?
16:45<MrRx7>my linode is at 400% :-(
16:45<ella>looks like somerhing from apache
16:45<SelfishMan>OOM? Yes. All the time when I run out of memory and anger the oom-killer
16:45<MrRx7>first time I've had the issue, what caused yours?
16:46<SelfishMan>Running out of memory
16:46<tjfontaine>do you run apache mysql and php, possibly spamassassin and clamav?
16:46<MrRx7>apache, mysql, php, memcache
16:46<MrRx7>no email at all
16:47<tjfontaine>there's your answer
16:47<MrRx7>on a 720
16:47<MrRx7>Heh, its been stable for over 8 months :-x
16:47<MrRx7>never cached a single time
16:47<tjfontaine>you probbaly finally had visitors :)
16:47<MrRx7>meh, site averages 20+ million hits per month :-P
16:48<tjfontaine>a likely story :)
16:48<MrRx7>welp, time to go syslog diving :D
16:51<ella>do we need to run ntp on linode?
16:52-!-WesleyCrusher [] has joined #linode
16:52<ella>MrRx7 I had a 'crash' and reboot today, running very similar to you
16:52<ella>not using memcache or clamav though
16:53-!-pleia2 [~lyz@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:53<MrRx7>yeah as far as memcache, its not being used all that often and limited to like 16mb of mem
16:54<ella>I found nothing in my logs to indicate an issue though
16:54<WesleyCrusher>How realistic are the bandwidth allowance on the plans? If someone uses up 200gigs (on the 360) will they get kicked? I completly understand about overselling, cost, etc... I just want to know how real the b/w limit is.
16:54<emag>welcome to linux. when it crashes, it leaves no clues as to why...
16:54<tjfontaine>WesleyCrusher: you get charged per gig if you go over, not kicked
16:55<emag>ella: this lack of useful logging has been a source of annoyance/frustration to me for years...
16:55-!-mysty [] has joined #linode
16:55<ella>really? I usually find clues
16:56<MrRx7>yaay for mysql replication
16:56<ella>but Lassie is suppose to kick in after 5 reboots, - and there were none logged in my server, not even my manual 'echo - the machine has rebooted >> boot.log' recorded anything but the one reboot
16:56<emag>if it's a hard crash, i usually find nothing, unless it's on the console (and that's iffy if it enabled its ghetto screen blanking)
16:56<MrRx7>mine never rebooted
16:56<MrRx7>just hung
16:57<ella>hmm true, concole does help and I was well past that
16:57<MrRx7>I figured out what caused mine
16:57<SelfishMan>I've never had Lassie actually do anything except power my node back on after I ran halt
16:57<MrRx7>7 of my 11 cron jobs all execued at the same time >_<
16:57*ella must fix the script that causes crontab to die one day too
16:57<MrRx7>3 of which are memory/SQL hogs
16:57<ella>well ... that can be nasty :)
16:58<MrRx7>heh, note to self to offset them more
16:58<ella>Well I had it reboot me today
16:58<ella>No note Mr!! DO IT!
16:58-!-IntuitiveNipple [] has quit [Quit: The only intuitive interface is the nipple; everything else is learned]
16:58<ella>well guess I'll shut down and add that extra disk space tagst' been sitting there for 4 months unused :)
16:59<MrRx7>already in nano lol
16:59<ella>Oh damn, that means I@ll vanish from the net too! I'm tunnled via my VPN!
16:59<aaronpk>we'll miss you
16:59*ella notes to ensure rc.ip_forward is set +x :)
17:00*ella trembles with fear about spending all night fixing things - again
17:00<WesleyCrusher>I get that, but most hosts that promise 300GB, 1TB, etc..., do so knowing that only a small percentage of users will reach that... Then they start limiting the accounts with Bandwidth throttling. Or they claim TOS violation. And so on.
17:00<ella>I only use 11Gb of my 400 GB :)
17:01<tjfontaine>WesleyCrusher: linode doesn't have to pay per gig, your limitation is their pipes
17:01<@caker>WesleyCrusher: we give you enough bandwidth rope to thoroughly hang yourself
17:01<ella>I'm surprised I'm seeing 11Gb to be honest, cause when I had my servers and my office at home I only hit around 3-4 Gb a month, but hey :)
17:02<tjfontaine>lots of bytes in irc mmk :)
17:02*ella woudl be more worried about how long that bandwidth rope i compared to the cliff - sounds like the clif is smaller - splat
17:02<ella>IRC! BWHAHAHA! IRC is cheaper than MSN and both combined are cheaper than SKYPE!
17:02<ella>Have you seen how chatty skype is!
17:03*tjfontaine facetious
17:03<WesleyCrusher>I mean at some point, with these plans, Linode starts losing money... Let me put it this way... I know for a fact that if you take advantage of the BW on some host like dreamhost, bluehost, etc, they will either kick you or limit your account... How bad is Linode's overselling?
17:03<tjfontaine>WesleyCrusher: linode doesn't oversell
17:03<@caker>WesleyCrusher: we don't oversell at all
17:03<tjfontaine>WesleyCrusher: they're a better class of VPS
17:03<bd_>WesleyCrusher: I've run /just barely/ under my bw quota several times without hearing anything. >.>
17:04<ella>I think Linode (smile at Caker) is a 1:1 or maybe 0.95:1 to be honest
17:04*SelfishMan fetches an extra few gigs from bd_ just to push past the barrier
17:04<bd_>caker: btw, if I have two linodes, but added one of them partway through the month, for bw pooling purposes would the full quota of both be used, or would the newer one's bw quota be prorated?
17:04<WesleyCrusher>Not overselling in the hosting business is something like... I don't even have words.
17:04<tjfontaine>now, DDoS is a different story
17:04<tjfontaine>WesleyCrusher: honest?
17:05<WesleyCrusher>Its like oil and water, they dont mix.
17:05<bd_>since I'm basically not using any of the bw on my pv-grub test one
17:05<ella>WesleyCrusher I use to run a lot of hosting and never olver sold, I priced fair for what the clients used or reduced their costs if they didn't use.
17:05<tjfontaine>hello bizarro-jerry
17:05<@caker>bd_: we haven't implemented/automated this yet, but monthly transfer willbe prorated
17:06<bd_>caker: okay. Reflecting it on the panel would be helpful, but I'm sure you have that on the todo list already :)
17:06<@caker>yeah -- it's on the list :)
17:06<ella>really? As much as I object to paying for 'byte count' when it's a very reasonable fee for a very reasonable hunk, I can't compain
17:06<ella>I use to pay AU$150 a month for a 256/64 DLS with a 20 GB cap
17:07<ella>Plus several boxes, plsu electricity, plus replacing hard drives and PSUs
17:07<ella>now I pay US$49 a month and only get upset when it reboots once in a year :)
17:07<ella>Oh or I get this extra disk space I really could use to ignore logging on and cleaning up for another year, only to have to reboot
17:08<WesleyCrusher>Linode must then attract a different crowd, a smarter one... No wonder you guys do not advertise on, etc...
17:08<bd_>caker: btw, the extra models for monthly transfers seems a bit confusing - if you realize you're about to run out at the end of the month, do you have to buy 30*what you really need to handle the prorating...? I've never actually used the bw extras, so I might be thinking of it wrong, though.
17:08<ella>I do think the Disk Space is a bit 'pricey' given the cost of hard drives today :)
17:08<bd_>WesleyCrusher: I think linode coupons are posted on webhostingtalk periodically...?
17:09<bd_>ella: It's because disk space can't be pooled between hosts... so if you add lots of disk space, that means you've filled up the space another linode on that host could've been in
17:09<ella>Oh and in December last year I researhced some 14 VPS services and how I rolled my eyes at all but two
17:09<WesleyCrusher>I've seen a thread or two, but no real ads for linode.
17:10<@caker>bd_: I see the issue. Honestly, if you're going to go over, just leave it alone. We'll sweep in some time after and back-bill you for the overages.
17:10<ella>bd_ Hmmm, I use to share terrabytes across multiple hosts, but in any event, hard drives are still cheap
17:10<bd_>caker: ah. I'm not really on track to go over, what with that extra linode, but that does seem simpler :)
17:11<ella>caker, why not instead of pro-rata (although seems you have this planned already) create a rolling accumulation?
17:11<bd_>WesleyCrusher: look harder - google vps, 'more sponsored links' and go to about the third page
17:11<@caker>we just started advertising. See page 65 in November's Linux Journal magazine!
17:11*caker flexes
17:11<@caker>!google fight linode slicehost
17:11<linbot>caker: linode: 446000, slicehost: 139000
17:12<ella>Wtch out for growth though, a GOOD solid business can collapse under over consumerating
17:12<@caker>we're very limited by the capex intesive nature of our business .. so it's a slow steady growth
17:12<@caker>... which we've been doing for > 5 years
17:13<ella>BTW I noticed your Dallas servers weren't affected by that incrdible DAta Center fire some months ago :) Nearly everyone else I knew went down :) (giggle)
17:13<@caker>it was a few hundred miles away from the TP DC we use
17:13<cruxeternus>Linode played russian roulette with ThePlanet datacenters.... TP has 3 in Texas.
17:14<ella>Good :) I picked the right place :)
17:14<WesleyCrusher>You guys should advertise the fact you do not oversell... to the right crowd. I don't think it would work with all these people I see shopping for the lowest price, which would be 98% of the market.
17:14<SelfishMan>Lower price just means it's more expensive
17:14<ella>and more unreliable
17:15<ella>I know I could have gone cheaper, oh wow and got 'daily backups' in the deal, but there was too much fluff in the telling of the story.
17:15<ella>Linode read simple, - too simple! and clean :0
17:16<ella>So WesleyCrusher, its better to appeal to your audience than try to appeal to all people.
17:16<SelfishMan>The big selling point is the "ur mom" jokes
17:16<tjfontaine>no it's lolz
17:16<ella>nd a good stable audience is much better than a large moving audience that leaves debts :0
17:16<tjfontaine>and notaverb
17:16<linbot>setup is not a verb. Please see
17:16<@mikegrb>mmm cake
17:17-!-mode/#linode [+q *!*] by FloodServ
17:17*SelfishMan hides
17:17<linbot>*BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
17:17*linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
17:18<WesleyCrusher>But the smaller the audience the harder it is to find, and costs more reach.
17:18<SelfishMan>I couldn't resist
17:18<tjfontaine>linode has always had steady growth
17:18<ella>WesleyCrusher not true
17:18<bd_>tjfontaine: except for that part when they were having trouble keeping up with demand
17:18<ella>With a stable audience who reatin loyalty, you have word and mouth, new customers, even preferancial deployments
17:18<tjfontaine>bd_: yes, it's controlled growth ;)
17:19<ella>Advertising can bring in an influx of randomness that can bring about higher admin over heads and a lot of lceaning up
17:19-!-MrRx7 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:19*ella corrects herself, she only pays $40 a month :) (Puts $9 back in her pocket)
17:20<ella>Tha'ts only £4 so I can barly buy anything with that!
17:21<Dave> you can buy a pint!
17:21<ella>don't drink
17:21<Dave>money well saved
17:21<tjfontaine>dave is an alkie
17:21<ella>yep at 8% interest in the savings account :0
17:21<Dave>I cant think of anything you can do with that
17:21<ella>only need 25 more of those £4 savings to buy a 1TB drive :)
17:21<SelfishMan>I have to go beat my neighbor with a bat. Back in a few.
17:21<Dave>oh, you can almost feed your family with a fiver
17:22<ella>If yuou have a family of 3 :)
17:22-!-SelfishMan [~SelfishMa@] has quit [Quit: SelfishMan]
17:22<WesleyCrusher>What type of ports are the servers hooked up to? 10/100/1gig?
17:22<ella>Did you know that PIzza is VAT free cause it's considered a staple food - and chips!!!
17:22<@caker>WesleyCrusher: gige x1, soon to be gige x2 for each host (yesss)
17:23<ella>WesleyCrusher bloody fast ones! Cause I can download competition films in about 90 seconds
17:23<ella>then it takes me about 2 hours to get them to my lappy via 3G :)
17:23<Dave>tjfontaine: I'm not an alkie, I just like a bit of booze :(
17:23<tjfontaine>Dave: I'm going drinking in T-minus 30 mins, so I'm more alkie than you
17:23<ella>Ok I lied, I like an LLB (which no one in Uk knows how to make)
17:24<WesleyCrusher>Is there a limiting factor? I can't burst or maintain 80mbit/s?
17:24<Dave>I've been drinking, although only 2 drinks
17:24<Dave>ella: LLB?
17:24*ella laughs
17:24<ella>Lemon Lime and Bitters - took me 9 months to find someone who sold Aromatic Bitters!
17:24<ella>had such withdrawl
17:25<Dave>bitters? like real beer?
17:25<Dave>if so, why the hell would you put lemon and lime in it?
17:25-!-SelfishMan [~SelfishMa@] has joined #linode
17:25<ajmitch_>not beer..
17:25<Dave>oh, we have some of that on top of our fridge
17:25<tjfontaine> ?
17:25<Dave>it smells awful
17:25<ella>It's lush!
17:26<ajmitch_>wonderful stuff
17:26<tjfontaine>you called me a lush!
17:26<Dave>thats just mixers tjfontaine
17:26<tjfontaine>I'm just being funny
17:26<ella>No tjfontaine, I'd never do that, keep dreaming :)
17:26<Dave> buy yourself some of that tjfontaine
17:27*ella must get some IR remote software for her lappy
17:27<ella>I am sick of sweetie coming in, taing the remotes, turnign the volume up, chaning the channel then walking out leaving them on th eother side of the room
17:27<ella> be nice to control the Entertainment system via Linode over a tunnel :)
17:28<tjfontaine>Dave: I've heard good things about such concotions, my mom used to make some dandelion salads, other people do wines
17:28<Dave>I dunno about eating actual dandelions, but that stuff is ace
17:28<ella>What run windows under LInux?
17:28<Dave>define run windows
17:29<Dave>stuff runs windows apps
17:29<ella>cruxeternus (giggle) I was refering to the Wines :)
17:29<ella>But yes :)
17:29<Dave>then you get stuff like vmware which will run the entire os
17:29<bcc>mmmm, dandelion and burdock
17:29<ella>I was contemplating this for my lappy, but my Macbook Pro has the option to switch between Windows and OSX and I've never even bothered to load windows on it :)
17:30<tjfontaine>or virtualbox
17:30<bcc>Dave: if you like D&B, try and get hold of the fentimans stuff
17:30<tjfontaine>fusion is nicer
17:30<Dave>bcc: the proper brewed stuff?
17:30<Dave>they sell it at work
17:30<Dave>the muslims cant drink it
17:30<bcc>it's about 0.5%, IIRC
17:31<tjfontaine>seems easy enough
17:31<Dave>tjfontaine: no, thats not D&B
17:31<tjfontaine>I know
17:31<ella>Hey does anyone do a lappy with a 1680 x 1050 screen these days?
17:32<ella>Too small
17:32<tjfontaine>mbp 15" :/
17:32<tjfontaine>that's what she said :<
17:32<m0unds>1680x1050 on both of my lappys
17:32<ella>What you got?
17:32<ella>Dual Core?
17:32<m0unds>one is a 3 year old dell inspiron 8600 and the other is a year old hp business nx9420
17:33<m0unds>older one is pre-dualcore, other is a 2.13GHz core 2 duo
17:33<ella>Yeah that's the problem, mine is a Presario X1440
17:33<ella>didn't like the weight of the NX9400
17:33<m0unds>it's a hefty notebook, but i got it for free so i can't complain :)
17:34<ella>Geee I'll have one too!
17:38-!-ph [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:41<Adam12>Hmm. Can someone test opening an ssh connection to ?
17:41<Dave>Adam12: looks good
17:42<Adam12>Dave: I see it in the logs, thanks.
17:42<ella>whats ya root password :0
17:42<Adam12>Strange as hell, I can't connect to that ip, but I can connect to the linode's other ip
17:42<Adam12>Ping is fine, traceroute is fine. Very oddball.
17:43<Adam12>Looks like it's affecting ssh only. Connections to apache are fine.
17:43<Adam12>iptables is empty
17:43<Dave>ssh config?
17:43<Adam12>Strange :P Oh well. Have to dig into my ~/.ssh folder. Maybe I fubar'd something in ssh_config
17:44<ella>hosts.allow and deny
17:44<ella>I got caught by that once
17:44<Adam12>ella: I don't use any tcpwrappers, so I don't think it's going to be that.
17:44<Adam12>It's letting me in on the other ip anyways, so ? Hmm :)
17:44<ella>check anyway I found ssh was using the config anyway
17:44<ella>tcpdump :)
17:46<Adam12>Yeah, running tcpdump now :)
17:51<ella>I guess its sionara for a short time - hopefully I'll be back with an extra 4 GB and a sever that is running :)
17:53-!-meff [] has joined #linode
17:53<Adam12>Meh, I figured it out. Stupid me :)
17:54<Adam12>Screwed up the A record. Put 206 not 207.xx .. urgh :) 120 wpm, 120 errors per minute :)
17:58<metaperl>is any one doing DdoS protection on their server? If so, how?
17:58<SelfishMan>I prefer the "don't get DoSed" approach
17:58*ella nods
17:58<metaperl>SelfishMan: and that is... ?
17:59<bd_>metaperl: DDoS protection takes serious hardware. Which $20/mo does not buy.
17:59<ella>dont mke enemies of script kiddies :0
17:59-!-Jeremy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:59<Pryon>Yeah, that's about the only "DDOS protection" you can have on a single machine unless i'm mistaken
17:59<Adam12>metaperl: Stop distributing nude pics of SelfishMan's mom :)
17:59<SelfishMan>Why are you concerned about being DDoSed? Maybe you shouldn't be doing that
17:59<metaperl>ella: lol
17:59-!-pygmalion [] has joined #linode
17:59<ella>make friends with script kiddies and they protect your server!!!
17:59<metaperl>SelfishMan: i'm thinking of developing a pay-to-click site
17:59<ella>10 scripties can DOS an attacker faster than one attacker and DOS a script kiddie!
18:00<metaperl>any way to hide my ip and only hand it out to trusted people
18:00-!-Jeremy [] has joined #linode
18:00<Dave>metaperl: no
18:00<ella>well actually yes there is
18:00<Dave>you could have 2 servers
18:00<SelfishMan>Those really aren't sustainable
18:00<Dave>hide one behind the other
18:01-!-xitology [~xi@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
18:02<ella>dynamic IP
18:04<ella>you could use anaonymous proxy servers
18:04<SelfishMan>Pretty much the only reason a pay-to-click site would get DoSed at all is if they aren't paying
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18:17-!-mode/#linode [-q *!*] by FloodServ
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18:39<bjc>Anyone have a Distro recommendation for a Drupalinstall?
18:40<@caker>I vote for Ubuntu or Debian
18:40<m0unds>another vote for ubuntu or deb
18:40<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
18:40<ella>I onloy use slackware :)
18:41<ella>Well it's the only distro that hasn't had 70,000 people who have nothing better to do with their time, recoding what already worked!
18:41<ella>and packaging it int something that omnmly works half the time!
18:41<m0unds>slackware is a poor person's bsd
18:41*ella ducks
18:41<bjc>I was leaning toward Ubuntu. I haven't done any Linux admin for years. Use to use Slackware 3!
18:41<m0unds>ubuntu's good stuff
18:42<ella>I haven't actualy looked at Ubuntu, but I am told it's a really easy install for the home/windows user
18:42<ella>Debian is too script kiddie for me
18:43<ella>Ubuntu also has heaps of desktop tools ready to fly for printers, scanners and other stuff
18:43<bjc>I do have Linux, Solaris experience. Only use Windows because of work.
18:44<bjc>Thanks for the feedback. I'll try Ubuntu.
18:48<mysty>isnt a recent version of ubuntu really bloated on apache?
18:48<Pryon>ella: debian is too "script kiddie". What do you mean?
18:48<m0unds>i'm using 8.04 and i don't have any problems with apache
18:50<bjc>I don't know the kernal size of Ubuntu. I hope linode has compiled a version for their hardware. My old Slackware 3.0 kernal was 1.2 MB (amazing)!
18:51-!-spasmface [] has joined #linode
18:51<m0unds>Pryon: ella: debian is too "script kiddie". What do you mean? --- i wondered the same thing
18:51<Pryon>Perhaps WHBT
18:51<bd_>bjc: probably ~3M, since everything's built-in. pv-grub should be coming soon if you want to build your own
18:51<ella>Pryon well Debian is highly used by the script kiddies
18:51-!-Schroeder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:52<mysty>what version is Feisty?
18:52<bd_>mysty: the latest
18:52<m0unds>no it's not
18:52<bd_>hardy is the latest
18:52<mysty>OK on that case that articke may not be relevant
18:52<m0unds>i upgraded to hardy from dapper
18:53<m0unds>i tend to stick to stable/lts versions only
18:53<mysty>ella: I think you're feeling a bit script kiddie ;)
18:53<bjc>bd - I would hope linode would only include the necessary hardware drivers for their servers and compile a kernal.
18:53<bd_>bjc: I'm referring to the domU kernels
18:53<bd_>I don't know what dom0's running
18:54<bd_>but since (until pv-grub is in, which should be soon) one can't build their own kernel, the kernel needs to have everything any user might want
18:54<bd_>ofc, there are no hardware drivers, only the Xen stuff
18:54<ella>Nooo not kiddie here, they are all in bed!
18:55<mysty>so you got away with that one?
18:56<mysty>would have though the debian fans would have been drawing weapons
18:56<SelfishMan>My spider senses are tingling
18:56<SelfishMan>and I smell bad OSes in the air
18:56<bjc>bd- you're right.
18:56<mysty>this guy I sits next to at workis so damn religious about debian
18:56<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
18:56<SelfishMan>Did someone mention slackware?
18:56<Pryon>mysty: we can smell the stinkbait from far away
18:56<m0unds>the rationale is so nonsensical that it's not worth discussing
18:56<ella>As long as it' not windows!
18:56<ella>or Red Hat
18:56<bd_>Don't feed the trolls. :)
18:56<mysty>SelfishMan: lol
18:57<SelfishMan>mysty: Go up to him and say that you like Debian too and use it all the time
18:57*mysty scoops some, and looks at the fan
18:57<SelfishMan>when he asks what distro, tell him Gutsy Gibbon
18:58*Pryon heard that in Australia, MS has repackaged Vista to look like redhat and all the Aussies think they're using redhat when they're really running vista
18:58<mysty>SelfishMan: I call him the mac fan boh.. he ahem loves it
18:58<ella>Pryon one and the same :)
18:58-!-TheFirst [] has joined #linode
18:58<Pryon>Also that the water in Aussie toilets goes the wrong way 'round
18:59<ella>does not
18:59<SelfishMan>Pryon: Quit sticking your head in the toilet and it won't be a problem
18:59<mysty>so i installed debian for the first time on Sunday here and couldnt find nslookup or telnet
18:59<ella>blokes dont flush in aus!
18:59<bjc>If I'm running a server without X-windows, why should I install Ubuntu instead of Debian? Isn't Ubuntu built from the Debian distro?
18:59<ella>mysty why woudl you need those?
18:59<SelfishMan>Ubuntu is far more up-to-date than debian distros
18:59<SelfishMan>Packages don't lag as far behind typically
18:59<mysty>coz they make me feel like a cuddle
19:00*Pryon would prefer a debian stable box on the net than a(n) ubuntu box for that very reason
19:00<mysty>ella: and I couldnt like connect to a host, like with a network thing
19:00*ella woudl prefer a clean Slackware box on the net that anything designed for a desktop user
19:00<bd_>li27-39:~/netbsd-kernel-latest/src# ./ -u -m i386 -O $PWD kernel=XEN3PAE_DOMU
19:00<m0unds>if you stick to lts versions of ubuntu, you end up with stable packages
19:00<SelfishMan>So, old packages = secure and stable?
19:00<bjc>How about openSuse?
19:00<ella>what you wanna connect to a host for - sounds positively incidious
19:01<Pryon>not bleeding edge != old.
19:01<Pryon>Also, yes.
19:01<SelfishMan>As an old friend of mine likes to say "Save the wristwatches because the sh* is getting deep in here"
19:01<ella>Suse is still around?
19:01<mysty>ella: sounds you got your way! Distro war - RAAAARGH
19:01<m0unds>yeah, but i hear lots of script kiddies use it
19:01<ella>THought it went with Mandrac - Poof like the Magician!
19:01<SelfishMan>You don't get bleeding edge unless you use that repo
19:01<bjc>ella - how do you administer your servers?
19:01<Pryon>lots of script kiddies breath air
19:01<ella>mysty ROFL :)
19:01<m0unds>i don't breathe air for that very reason
19:01<SelfishMan>mysty: My distro can beat up your distro
19:02<ella>bjc ssh over a douple encrypted vpn most of the time
19:02<SelfishMan>Of course, your distro is so bloated it only needs to sit on mine to kill it
19:02<mysty>my IPSEc goes faster ythat your SSL
19:02*ella laughs
19:02<ella>SSL? Only use that for Apache :0
19:02-!-ryan8403_laptop [] has joined #linode
19:03<ella>If we could cut off the air supply to script kiddies ...
19:03<mysty>yeah, yoiur ssl is so lame you cant even remember its key so you have to crack it
19:03<m0unds>then i could save a ton of money on bottled oxygen?
19:03<SelfishMan>ella: They get their air from the bottles of mountain dew they chug
19:03<ella>Well if Microsoft hadn't used SSL certificates ...
19:04<SelfishMan>Your distro is so old that when you blew the dust out of your server the OS disappeared
19:04*ella giggles
19:04<ella>I like that!
19:05<mysty>well at least the installer isnt on cassette tape like your old distro, paper tape
19:05<ella>I use punch cards
19:05<encode>SelfishMan: unfortunately that's about right for my linode. Ubuntu 6.06 LTS, won't be supported much longer
19:05<mysty>cassette paper tape? meh
19:05<Pryon>sorry, wrong window
19:05<ella>No really I did - I built a 4 bit BBS in 1990 :)
19:06<m0unds>i did a command line upgrade from 6.06 -> 8.04
19:06<m0unds>went through without a hitch
19:06<ella>The Clock was pulsed by a photo cell - Sun light mean 'day' darkness meant 'night'
19:06<ella>ok I think I'm ready to reboot and see if it works :)
19:06<ella>it's just after midnight
19:07<SelfishMan>ella: don't forget to switch to a distro people actually use!
19:07<ella>and Invasion of the Body Snatchers is on TV
19:07*mysty is gonna reboot - and probably wake up with a headache for having an early night
19:07<ella>SelfishMan Why I use it, that's good enough for me!
19:07<mysty>have fun all
19:07<ella>Bye mysty :)
19:07<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
19:07<SelfishMan>Nobody *uses* slackware
19:07-!-mysty [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- It'll be on slashdot one day...]
19:08<ella>Do I send *hugs* here or is that too girly for you?
19:08<SelfishMan>They just keep it around to remember how complicated things used to be
19:08<charlie>mikegrb's autoresponders fail
19:08<Pryon>ain't no girls on the internet
19:08<booja>girls, on MY internet?
19:08<SelfishMan>"pics plz"
19:08<m0unds>welcome to the internet where the men are men, the women are men and the 13 year olds are FBI agents
19:08<charlie>ella: one of the rules of the internet is that there are no girls on the internet
19:09<Pryon>That's quite a URL
19:09<booja>and I really wish people would stop hatin on slack
19:09<ella>I met my weetie on the interne in IRC in 1995, she was in a different city to me! We're still together!
19:09<ella>booja me too
19:09-!-KB1PYW [~KB1PYW@] has quit [Quit: KB1PYW]
19:09<ella>It's Slackware is so easy to work with it makes me slack :)
19:09<booja>what the fuck is a weetie? aren't they a breakfast food?
19:09<ella>sweetie -
19:09<Pryon>echo "tarty" | sed -e 's/r/s/'
19:10<ella>She is :)
19:10<booja>ok, back to work
19:10<SelfishMan>I don't hate slackware I just feel sorry for people that use it
19:10<linbot>*BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
19:10*linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
19:11<SelfishMan>Sorry, couldn't resist that last jab
19:11<ella>SelfishMan can you feel sorry for me with your credit card details please :)
19:11<ella>I need to go shopipng tomorrow
19:11<SelfishMan>Sure. I posted them on my server at
19:11<ella>gotta but three tops for the three skirts I bought on Sunday for £150 :0
19:11*ella laughs
19:12<ella>Oh don't you hate it when you watch CSI and they go "Oh look they are on the internet at 567.923.633.734"
19:12<m0unds>i hate csi enough that i don't ever watch it under any circumstances
19:12<m0unds>without even seeing things like that
19:13<ella>well I don't watch it myself I get stuck noticing it
19:13<ella>But yeah for IPv4.32!!
19:14*ella takes a deeeeep breath
19:15<SelfishMan>OK, my neighbor is pissing me off again. I'm going to go shoot him a few times with some frozen paintballs. Have fun peoples.
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19:40<ella>oh fook
19:40-!-KB1PYW [] has joined #linode
19:40*ella is embarassed now
19:42<ella>Well I tried about 20 variations of my passwrd and it didn't let me in
19:42<ella>now it has
19:42<ella>but I canmt remembe rmy root pass!
19:43<Internat>theres a reset root password option via the panel.
19:43*ella looks
19:43<ella>I shoudl knwo the password
19:43<@jadoba>"settings & utilities"
19:43<ella>found it, but ...
19:43<ella>shoudl still know the password!
19:44<@jadoba>write it on a post it note and put it on your monitor
19:44<m0unds>keys keys keys
19:45<ella>damnit apache refuses to come up on a reoot
19:50-!-eld101 [] has joined #linode
19:50<ella>Hmm how do I stop resolve.conf being rewritten?
19:50<eld101>anyone out there use mod_security?
19:51<HoopyCat>ella: you could chmod it unwritable, or use static instead of dhcp
19:51<ella>dhcp? you mean dhcpd?
19:52<Eman>what? slackware?
19:52<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
19:52*ella pokes her tongue out
19:52<HoopyCat>ella: your current method of getting an IP is probably DHCP; you can use static addressing instead of DHCP and it'll work just as well, except better
19:52<DephNet[Paul]>gonna throw this out there but best OS (not Windows) for a desktop
19:53<DephNet[Paul]>and reasons why
19:53<ella>yep found it
19:53<ella>hard coding :)
19:53<HoopyCat>DephNet[Paul]: OS X; application support and general quality
19:54<Eman>os/2; unhackable, runs some windows apps
19:54<ella>well if you can run OSX then why not, but pro Ubuntu is the most pop and desktop easiest
19:54<DephNet[Paul]>HoopyCat, please do NOT make me kill you xD besides, you cant get OSX on seperately can you?
19:54<ella>OS/2? People still use OS/2 ?
19:54<Eman>my bank does
19:55<ella>well someone was running OSX on a PC :) But Apple took them to court :0
19:55<ella>Now there is an AntiTrust battle going
19:55<ella>but yes you can buy it
19:56<DephNet[Paul]>ella, my bank runs their online banking software on an OS/2 box, yes just ONE box, and the rest of their systems are DOS and Windows 3.11
19:56-!-daMaestro [] has joined #linode
19:57<HoopyCat>DephNet[Paul]: you wanted the best option that wasn't windows; you didn't specify hardware or pricing requirements :-)
19:57<ella>where does webmin stores it's 'Error - Access denied for The host has been blocked because of too many authentication failures.' data :)
19:59<DephNet[Paul]>HoopyCat, ok best OS, that will go on a Sony Viao, cost not really an issue but cheaper the better :P also NOT windows or OSX
19:59<ella>Ubuntu :)
19:59<ella>Never used it but people I respect rave :0
19:59<HoopyCat>DephNet[Paul]: i'd go with ubuntu
19:59*ella thinks for freezing cold England she is sure hot in the lounge room
20:00<DephNet[Paul]>hmm ive used it and while it is nice i had 1 major issue
20:00<DephNet[Paul]>it kept forgetting i had the nVidia drivers installed so i needed to uninstall them, re install them and reboot before i could watch a video
20:01<HoopyCat>if the machine isn't a macintosh and is too shitty to run windows (and/or if i'm using the windows license somewhere else), i'll use the linux du jour
20:02<DephNet[Paul]>HoopyCat, this isnt to shitty to run Windows :P i just dislike it
20:02<DephNet[Paul]>but i must say this, the Areo interface is looking good
20:04-!-eld101 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:04<ella>gawd it's wednesday
20:05<booja>wednesday morning no less
20:05<linbot>New news from forums: Best method of linode <--> linode file transfer? in General Discussion <>
20:06<HoopyCat>math, physics, math, circuit analysis, electronics lab, home, dinner, sleep
20:06-!-chmac [] has joined #linode
20:07<ella>See I kneew I'd forget passwords if I used ssh keys
20:07<HoopyCat>ella: i keep a list in Ye Olde Safe
20:08<HoopyCat>... and i use keepass for all the passwords that don't protect the nation's nuclear arsenal
20:09<metaperl>ella - that link to the pic doesnt work does it?
20:09<HoopyCat>in general, keys rock. if you haven't yet, look into key agents, esp. if you have more than one box
20:10<ella>should now :)
20:10<ella>I just rebooted :)
20:10-!-pleia2 [] has joined #linode
20:11<ella>OK so Apache rfused to come up cause it coudln't talk to my dns cause resolve was poitning to linodes servers and so couldn't find my .local domain :)
20:12<ella>metaperl and the pic shoudl work now :)
20:12-!-SelfishMan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12<HoopyCat>the wife has declared it bedtime; g'nite all!
20:13<ella>It's not norti but if you happen to be stuck with filters try:
20:14<ella>heheeh love geeks :)
20:14<ella>they always prob around :0
20:14*ella nods :)
20:14<ella>Good mod-rrewrite rules huh :)
20:14<ella>I get a director listing so I can find the uris for pics for friends and you get bounced to my home page :)
20:15<ella>Oh yeah and my pics aren't sequentially numbered either :)
20:15<ella>learne that a LONG LONG time ago :0
20:15<ella>soneone got it wrong!
20:16<ella>wanna see what soeone took of me when I wasn't paying attention]
20:16<ella>I mean is this allowed?
20:17<ella>I love mod_rewrite
20:18<ella>when my sweetie was employed by a UK COuncil who then fired her, we put up a web site
20:18<HoopyCat>'tis why i don't let my wife have the high-res camera
20:18<ella>whenever they go to the site they get redirected to the Tribunal web site!
20:18<ella>anyone else can read the nitty :0
20:18-!-linville [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:19<ella>Oh dear!
20:19<ella>HoopyCat thats not good at all!
20:19<ella>shoudl do what I do!
20:19-!-dvgrhl [] has joined #linode
20:20<@jadoba>HoopyCat: yeah, i'd kill anyone who piblicized a picture of me on leopard skin pattern...
20:20<booja>nice legs hoopy
20:20<HoopyCat>jadoba: the couch is natively floral
20:20<ella>call her into the room and SNAP
20:21<HoopyCat>booja: yeah, they kinda look a little bit worse than they really are in that photo. however, the dehydration and profuse vomiting really made me look much thinner.
20:21<booja>crash dieting to fit into your prom dress mate?
20:22-!-SelfishMan [] has joined #linode
20:22<HoopyCat>ella: eh, i get my revenge other ways. :-)
20:22<ella>You migh enjooy these :) My garage through to 10
20:22<SelfishMan>Note to self: Don't remove battery from laptop while it is running unless it is also plugged in
20:23<booja>heh, done that before
20:23<ella>SelfishMan Oh how about when your thumb slides the lock across as you pick it up to get up and it drops out!
20:24<SelfishMan>I don't have that problem
20:24<ella>can't do it on the macbooks thankully :)
20:24<ella>ut then you can't get the damn batteries out single handed either!
20:25-!-KB1PYW [] has quit [Quit: KB1PYW]
20:25<ella>Now that was a good fish!!!
20:25<HoopyCat>there's the revenge pic
20:26<ella>wonder if I can put a 750 Gb drive in the PVR
20:27<HoopyCat>wasn't i going to bed? yes, yes i was. g'nite folx!
20:27<@jadoba>and so it begins, the most tragic and epic of journeys to have beset HoopyCat
20:27<ella>Me too!
20:27-!-SelfishMan [] has quit [Quit: SelfishMan]
20:27<ella>Well thansk for all the clues and help tonight :0
20:27<bd_> Kernels built from XEN3PAE_DOMU:
20:27<bd_> /root/netbsd-latest/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/XEN3PAE_DOMU/netbsd
20:27<bd_>oh ho
20:27<HoopyCat>ella: no problem!
20:27<HoopyCat>oh wait, i did nothing. :-)
20:27<@jadoba>bd_: 'sup
20:27<ella>Been fun reminising, battling the OS and god knows what else
20:28<ella>Guess it will be 9 months before something happens to bring me back :) (giggle)
20:28<bd_>the usual, playing with pv-grub, etc
20:28<@jadoba>good stuff?
20:28-!-ryan8403_laptop [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:28<ella>but you know where to find me :) Tucked away on a Linode somewhere quietly pushing bits :0
20:29<bd_>jadoba: we'll find out shortly
20:29*jadoba nods
20:29<ella>bd_ just don't break anything!
20:30<@jadoba>bd_: break stuff!
20:30<linbot>New news from forums: Ohio LinuxFest 2008 in /dev/random <>
20:32<ella>heheh and my remaining Broadband hasn't moved a byte in 30 hours heheeh I gotta love a UDP vpn :)
20:33-!-D[a]rkbeholder [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20:36<bd_>panic: HYPERVISOR_mmu_update failed
20:36<bd_>fatal breakpoint trap in supervisor mode
20:36<ella>You were watching over it, reboot and walk away so you aren't suprvising it!
20:37<bd_>netbsd doesn't work with debug xen builds \o/
20:37<@caker>give me a break
20:37<@caker>at all? ever?
20:37<bd_>xen steals one of the PTE bits for its own use if it's a debug build
20:38<bd_>but netbsd uses it as well
20:38<@caker>freebsd the same deal?
20:38<bd_>the message suggests all BSDs will have this issue
20:39-!-abock [] has joined #linode
20:40<bd_>there goes the BSDnode plans :|
20:40<@caker>seeing as how our latest xen build hasn't crapped out yet (but isn't that widely deployed), I suppose there's a chance I'd feel comfortable removing the debug stuff
20:40<bob2>... is dying
20:41<bd_>you don't need to remove all of it
20:42<bd_>I don't know how much of an effect this'll have on the debug stuff though
20:42<KB1PYW>anyone know much about 301 perm redirects and how that will affect search results for the old/new domain?
20:43<bd_>maybe netbsd can be fixed
20:44<path->make your own bsd
20:44<bd_>... or patch netbsd
20:44<path->if there was another s..
20:45<bd_>apparently it's used for the 'software execute-disable feature' - how they implemented that I don't know (yet)
20:46<bd_>it seems to be used in only a few places
20:49<bd_>they limit the code segment to control executability it seems
20:53-!-abock [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:53<bd_>okay, let's see if defining PG_X to 0 is enough...
20:54-!-SelfishMan [] has joined #linode
20:54-!-pygmalion [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20:55<dvgrhl>anyone know how to set up a public svn so that anyone can access it?
21:02<xorl>dvgrhl: that is bad ju ju'
21:02<dvgrhl>ok, fine
21:03<dvgrhl>didn't think about people committing things, just dling them
21:04-!-abock [] has joined #linode
21:05<bd_>... note to self, build the PAE variant :|
21:06-!-bjc [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:13<bd_>no file system for md0 (dev 0x1100)
21:14<freedom_is_chaos>oh no.
21:14-!-kupesoft [] has joined #linode
21:16*bd_ waits several minutes for the forced shutdown
21:17*caker destroys it
21:18<@caker>no sysrq under bsd?
21:18<tjfontaine>more bsd time?
21:18<bd_>nope, doesn't look like it
21:18<bd_>tjfontaine: the kernel's up! \o/
21:18<bd_>I hope!
21:18<bd_>haven't got as far as user code yet
21:18<tjfontaine>for those of you who like bsds
21:18<Internat>is this with pv_opts? or whatever it was?
21:18<@caker>mountroot: trying ext2fs... <-- neato
21:18<bd_>had to half-break execute protection, mind you
21:18<bd_>Internat: nah, Xen port
21:19<freedom_is_chaos>is linode going to try bsd?
21:19<bd_>freedom_is_chaos: /I'm/ going to try bsd :P
21:19<Internat>i dont know what that is though
21:19<tjfontaine>linode wants you to use what you want :)
21:19<Internat>linode wants me to use windows?
21:19*linbot dispenses rope
21:19*bd_ demonstrates a hangman's knot
21:19<freedom_is_chaos>your an awesome robot, linbot
21:20*linbot dispenses a sixpack
21:20*tjfontaine takes 4
21:21<@caker>I learned something interesting about GRUB. It's event loop spins at 100% cpu under Xen, and on real hardware
21:21<@caker>*its (neener)
21:21<tjfontaine>so not something you want to sit indefinitely :)
21:21<@caker>ideally, no. But, we have moar coars so it doesn't really matter
21:22<StevenK>caker: Grub runs in real mode and can't make idle calls
21:22<tjfontaine>still, it needs to spin lock?
21:22<bd_>StevenK: it could use HLT, maybe?
21:23<StevenK>HLT is a bad idea in a boot loader
21:23<bd_>StevenK: it resumes once an interrupt comes in, right?
21:23<StevenK>bd_: 1. How can you be sure? 2. How long are you usually going to leave a machine running a grub event loop?
21:24<tjfontaine>well caker can't really control the timeout in the grub menu
21:24<tjfontaine>lassie reboots a box, but the menu.lst is waiting indefinitely
21:24<bd_>StevenK: how can you be sure on a regular kernel? :)
21:25<StevenK>bd_: Because a regular kernel isn't in real mode
21:25<bd_>interrupts are interrupts...?
21:26*m0unds uses a 20lb sledgehammer for interrupts
21:26<bd_>I might need to manually install this netbsd thing
21:26*StevenK can't remember how interrupts interact in real mode
21:30-!-kupesoft [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:58<daniel>[!!] Key buffer hit rate: 94.5% (1K cached / 69 reads) <-- what does the key buffer hit rate mean for mysql?
22:02<tjfontaine>caker: your homicidal tendency level appears high in that recent facebook picture :)
22:03-!-RyanG [~lolthathu@] has joined #linode
22:03<tjfontaine>daniel: how many times a key that was cached was requested again? in normal cache hit/miss terminologies?
22:03<bd_>netbsd's cross-compile system is refreshingly easy
22:04<daniel>tjfontaine, ahh thanks :) How may I raise this?
22:04<daniel>key_buffer = 16M right now, thats to low yah?
22:05<tjfontaine>this seems like a very good article from google
22:05<daniel>What would you suggest bumping that up to if I have l360?
22:05<tjfontaine>search terms: key buffer hit rate
22:05<tjfontaine>daniel: is your site acting slow or something?
22:06<daniel>tjfontaine, not at all
22:06<tjfontaine>then ignore it for now :)
22:06<daniel>I would rather have it run faster if I can :D
22:06<daniel>lets just say it was runing slow
22:06<daniel>would i look at innodb_pool and key buffer?
22:06<tjfontaine>you'd have to find out why
22:08<daniel>ok logging slow queries and queries with no index now :)
22:08<tjfontaine>good idea
22:13-!-andy_ [] has joined #linode
22:23-!-arrgh [] has joined #linode
22:23<arrgh>hey guys
22:24-!-WesleyCrusher [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:24<arrgh>so, do most of you people have a linode account? Im thinking of getting one...
22:24<@caker>just one? :(
22:24<tjfontaine>I would:)
22:25<arrgh>so, are you allowed to use our acount for VPN?
22:25<@caker>that would be a: yes
22:25<tjfontaine>a double yes
22:25<arrgh>also, whats the stance on torrenting?
22:26<@caker>see above
22:26<daniel>arrgh, yeah signup under my link ;x
22:27<arrgh>well, i was reading through it and it didnt realy mention much
22:27<daniel>torrenting is allowed if u have permission to distribute the file
22:27<arrgh>k, cause i know in
22:27<arrgh>in Canada, its like legal to download movies, songs etc.
22:28<bd_>it's not actually
22:28<@caker>like legal?
22:28<daniel>caker, is it possible for me to like...just get triple line2880 for one box, OR do you think it would bebetter to like..get one linode 2880 for http and another linode 4880+880 (w/e the hellt hat is) for MySQL?
22:28<arrgh>well apparently legal if you do not use the file to make profits or something along those lines
22:28-!-MrRx7 [] has joined #linode
22:29<bd_>arrgh: well... I wouldn't trust that without checking with a lawyer first
22:29<bd_>and anyway linode's servers are located in the US
22:29<@caker>wouldn't you need to own the rights to the content first?
22:29<@caker>daniel: you're asking if it's better to have one giant Linode, or split up services among smaller Linodes?
22:30<arrgh>well, I just realised servers are located in the US, so thats a no for torrenting "allowed" files
22:30<StevenK>You can run torrents on your Linode. For example, I've seeded Ubuntu releases
22:30<StevenK>But yes, content is important
22:31<arrgh>got it, so if I own the file then its an ok.
22:31<daniel>caker, yes
22:31<Palintheus>arrgh: or if it's ok for you to distribute, like a linux distro
22:32<@caker>daniel: there's no absolute answer.
22:32<@caker>daniel: if whatever your workload is requires lots of ram, for instance..
22:33<daniel>so would it be OK to get the power of three linodes 2880 under one IP? (just think of it as a huge upgrade)
22:34<@caker>You'd be better off with 3 Linodes, imo
22:34<StevenK>But you can't address 8640MB under 32bit
22:34<bd_>StevenK: 64-bit kernels are available
22:34<bd_>or well, at least one
22:35<bd_>and if the working set is larger than 2880mb, I guess a linode $big would make sense *shrug*
22:35<daniel>well, can 32 bit support 4760mb of ram
22:35-!-A-KO [] has joined #linode
22:35<bd_>well it can using PAE
22:35<A-KO>laaaack of SNI support in some browser combos hurts
22:35<bd_>but not in a single address space
22:36<daniel>Meh, so I guess a 64 bit kernel would be needed
22:36<StevenK>You can't address more than 4GB with a 32bit address space
22:36<bd_>you can with horrible hacks
22:37<daniel>so, is it better to run everything under one big server or distribute the load across multiple servers?
22:37<daniel>Like http, mysql, and then perhaps images or some kind of CD
22:37<A-KO>daniel: really depends on the application you have.
22:37<bd_>daniel: that very much depends on your situation
22:37<daniel>A-KO, right, heavy SQL usage website
22:37<StevenK>daniel: Usually, people will have a front end machine farm out requests to two or more application servers that talk to one or more database servers
22:37<tjfontaine>I split my webserver and db :)
22:38-!-Schroeder [] has joined #linode
22:38<daniel>tjfontaine, across how many and what linode plans?
22:38<A-KO>simple test: Start out with 1. If things get bogged down, see if you can change some configs and optimize it. If it continues to take a hit, see about splitting the DB and the webserver to seperate machines. so forht and so forth.
22:38<StevenK>Right. Good plan.
22:39<daniel>just trying to figure out the cost, cause programming time costs way more than hardware imo (I think this is Rails philosophy as well heh)
22:39<tjfontaine>I have a 540 webserver and mailserver, and a 360 db server, though I'm likely going to change to 3 360s
22:39<A-KO>daniel: how many hits do you expect to your linode?
22:39*StevenK is very happy with his one 360
22:39<daniel>tjfontaine, what will the additional 360 be used for?
22:39<daniel>A-KO, 14k hit per day
22:39<tjfontaine>separate the mail server out
22:39<tjfontaine>but that's because I anticipate doing more hosting
22:40<daniel>tjfontaine, ahh and how many hits do u get?
22:40<@caker>daniel: you've read "Getting Real", right? :)
22:40-!-KB1PYW [] has quit [Quit: KB1PYW]
22:40<A-KO>I need to read up on good ways on clustering mysql servers, or load balancing 'em.
22:40<tjfontaine>not enough? :)
22:40<daniel>caker, yeah yah haha :P
22:40<daniel>A-KO, me too :S
22:40<A-KO>It's the one thing I'm not too versed with at the moment.
22:40*StevenK has done Postgres clutters
22:40<daniel>its not that there will be a low of unique hits...but a ton of pageviews from each visitor.
22:41<StevenK>Since I don't like MySQL and refuse to learn it
22:41<A-KO>lol StevenK
22:41<arrgh>hrm, im im kinda a noob at linux and i know how to setup LAMP and a distro if i throw my website there would it still have a pretty fast loading time
22:41<A-KO>my situation is I like mysql a lot, prefer to use it. I really should fire up SQL 2005 to learn how to do some of the corporate stuff we've got going on at work
22:41<A-KO>arrgh: if that's the only thing your box is doing? likely so.
22:42<A-KO>btw, uh, caker, sorry about the f'd up crontab I had going on my linode recently, haha.....accidentally had it running tar every minute :/
22:42<A-KO>didn't realize it til I checked my backup log file
22:42<m0unds>that's pretty awesome though
22:42<A-KO>and was like "wait a minute wtf?"
22:43<arrgh>A-KO: it would probably also be running vpn and a few lite services
22:43<A-KO>arrgh: should be fine.
22:43<A-KO>I run a lot of shit on my linode
22:43<A-KO>and I've got the lowest plan with 2 IPs
22:43<arrgh>hrm, k yea im just debating linode vs. shared hosting and some random company where i only have ftp basically
22:44<A-KO>I run about 4 different websites, openvpn, an ircd, various security utilities, etc.
22:44<A-KO>I run proftpd, etc.
22:45-!-Kassah [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:45-!-klono [~pin@] has joined #linode
22:45<klono>any staff available?
22:45-!-r3z`` is now known as r3z
22:46<linbot>Don't ask to ask; just ASK
22:47<bd_>caker was around a few minutes ago
22:47-!-Schroeder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:47<daniel>A-KO, why proftpd?
22:48<A-KO>daniel: ssl support, easier to configure
22:49<A-KO>I'm thinking about attending a local lug but I really hate evangelists :/ lol
22:50<tjfontaine>it's not the evangelists that are the problem it's the geeks
22:50<klono>The help I need requires a staff member, not the general population, which is why I asked for a staff member specifically
22:50<bd_>woo netbsd build finished
22:50<klono>I submitted a support ticket instead, thanks
22:50<tjfontaine>klono: it's easier for them to help you when they know wtf is up
22:50<bd_>well, a ticket will work
22:50<A-KO>It's probably a question that could be answered here though :)
22:51<tjfontaine>people have no faith in the community anymore :)
22:51<A-KO>after reading /. today, I really lost faith in the community
22:51-!-KB1PYW [] has joined #linode
22:52<A-KO>There was a serious debate about allowing employees' personal devices onto a corporate LAN.
22:53<A-KO>and an overwhelming amount of people on there weren't the hardcore bofh-types but the people going "I really support it and I think IT should work with the people!"
22:53<bd_>employees' personal devices tend not to be the most well-maintained/secure things ever
22:53<A-KO>that's what I said
22:54<booja>what the fcuk
22:54<bd_>OTOH once you start handing out corporate laptops or whatever they're effectively personal machines....
22:54<booja>has /.turned "user friendly"
22:54<MrRx7>mac address filtering ftw
22:54<A-KO>They were like "but but employees expect this or that" and I'm like "but my job is to secure the network not keep you happy. I'm not a psychologist."
22:55<A-KO>yeah it got pretty bad on there.
22:55<@mikegrb>klono: shouldn't be an issue, tom will likely take care of you first thing in the morning
22:55<jkwood>"take care of you"
22:56<@mikegrb>ja ja
22:56<A-KO>I hate driving through Jersey
22:56<@mikegrb>you will owe him a favor
22:56<A-KO>no pumping your own gas..
22:58<@mikegrb>A-KO: well it's significantly cheaper than the neighboring states AND they pump it for you, seems like a win win to me
22:58-!-MrRx7 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:59<A-KO>I dunno I only go on long drives through Jersey up to NYC, I enjoy getting out and pumping my own gas for the simple sake of being able to stand up for a few minutes and break the monotany of the drive.
23:01<m0unds>slashdot has sucked for a long time
23:01<m0unds>loooooong time
23:02<A-KO>I can't believe some of these people advocate using linux but don't understand at all the core foundation of its security principals and how to apply that mentality to either a whole LAN or Windows machines.
23:02<A-KO>It amazes me
23:02<m0unds>linux as a fad
23:02<A-KO>It absolutely amazes me and I wish none of them were using computers.
23:02*jkwood slashdots m0unds
23:02*m0unds is now a zombie
23:03<A-KO>It's getting difficult these days to find reasonable computer users.
23:03<A-KO>hey I use gentoo :(
23:03*m0unds kills himself
23:03<m0unds>you're not the kind of gentoo user i was mocking
23:03<A-KO>lol I know
23:03<m0unds>...i hope
23:03<m0unds>OR ARE YOU?
23:03<A-KO>I've met those types
23:04<arrgh>ohhhkayy guys, I just signed up for linode!
23:04<m0unds>good on ya
23:04<tjfontaine>welcome aboard
23:04<A-KO>nah, at this point I really could just use any linux OS I'm just more comfortable under a gentoo environment, so I use it. The compiling thing becomes more of a headache at this point than something "fun" or "cool".
23:04<jkwood>I mean... awesome.
23:04-!-RyanG [~lolthathu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04<arrgh>woo, time to be a noob and do some GUI ubuntu
23:04<m0unds>compiling becomes a headache with servers
23:05<A-KO>"you what? You forgot to compile with random_use_flag and now a webapp you have doesn't work?" *sigh*
23:05<m0unds>yeah, it's really good at exposing how shitty some devs are
23:06<A-KO>The only really good thing about Gentoo, and I must admit, it's extremely well documented. Their docs and the wiki are awesome.
23:06<arrgh>wow account made that was fast
23:06<A-KO>everything's step-by-step, generally very clear.
23:06<tjfontaine>caker: who won that one?
23:07-!-spasmfac_ [~spasm@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:07<arrgh>guys, for location its best just to chose closer to where i live right?
23:07-!-fbroce [] has joined #linode
23:07<tjfontaine>arrgh: you can run the downlaod tests
23:07<A-KO>arrgh: really depends. The best one would be to put it in a place where all your users will be closest to.
23:07<A-KO>arrgh: But generally, most people go with what's closest to them
23:07<bd_>you can always move later, modulo availability (
23:08<A-KO>yeah only thing that sucks about moving is the complete loss of DNS for a little bit til you get it all updated :D
23:08<m0unds>i had good routes to atlanta and dallas both from NM
23:09-!-RyanG [~lolthathu@] has joined #linode
23:09-!-daMaestro|isBack [~jon@] has joined #linode
23:09-!-fbroce [] has quit []
23:11<arrgh>lol all the same speed but i guess dallas is the closest to Vancouver..
23:11-!-mode/#linode [+q *!*] by FloodServ
23:11<bd_>arrgh: you could ping them too
23:13<arrgh>hrm, sorry for all the questions guys but would ubuntu be best choice for me since im not too familiar with linux?
23:13<tjfontaine>I vote for debain or ubuntu
23:13<A-KO>arrgh: it's certainly not terrible to start with, for what you're looking at doing (lamp) it's pretty generiuc across the board
23:14<tjfontaine>but as many users in here have as many opinions
23:14<A-KO>You'll find a whole lot of "support' for ubuntu around the internet
23:14<arrgh>A-KO: yea mainly LAMP, VPN pretty light stuff
23:16-!-arrgh [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]
23:16-!-arrgh [] has joined #linode
23:16-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:16<m0unds> = good resource
23:18<arrgh>lol, k i should start reading there
23:18*jkwood stabs m0unds
23:18<arrgh>woo, its booted now to figure out how to get some form of remote desktop so i can learn this thing
23:19<m0unds>jeez, what's with all the violence tonight jkwood
23:19*linbot slaps jkwood
23:19<tjfontaine>I don't think you want remote desktop
23:19<tjfontaine>so much as you want ssh
23:19<m0unds>i see...some sort of self-flagellation?
23:20-!-z4v [] has joined #linode
23:21-!-spasmface [] has joined #linode
23:21-!-spasmface [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:28<arrgh>so SSH will just show me files?
23:28<bob2>SSH gets you a command prompt
23:31<guinea-pig>ooh, fancy
23:32<tjfontaine>will show you files
23:32<tjfontaine>ls over ssh wil show you files too ;)
23:32<opello>or pscp, filezilla
23:33-!-bjc [] has joined #linode
23:34<arrgh>ok, so password would just be the password i setup for linux right?
23:37<arrgh>hrm, this is probably be a stupid question but i cant SSH in
23:37<arrgh>password denied
23:38<arrgh>never mind..
23:40-!-Griswald [] has joined #linode
23:40<Griswald>evenin' folks :)
23:40<Griswald>any admins available?
23:42<RyanG>im not with linode, but whats up
23:42<@caker>the answer is: 42
23:43<linbot>Don't ask to ask; just ASK
23:43<DephNet[Paul]>:O i thought it was "yo mom" caker :P
23:43<Griswald>it's been months since I was last here xD
23:43-!-Shaun2222 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:43<@caker>DephNet[Paul]: I try not to overdo ... your mom
23:44<DephNet[Paul]>ahh fair enough
23:44<bd_>BSD image uploaded :3
23:44*caker tails
23:44<bd_>and the config profile is wrong
23:45<arrgh>hey does an1 know how to setup VNC over SSH?
23:45<bd_>I think... it made it to userland?
23:45<bd_>not sure
23:45<@caker>looks like it ..
23:45<Griswald>I forgot about mikes autoresponse.
23:46<@caker>bd_: enjoy :)
23:46<StevenK>What size Linode is that BSD running on?
23:46<tjfontaine>'now what?'
23:46-!-Shaun2222 [] has joined #linode
23:47*caker expects most commands/syntax to reply "This isn't Linux!!"
23:47<path->run ps?
23:47<StevenK>I remember that fun from when I tried FreeBSD
23:48<bd_>StevenK: 360
23:48*jkwood noobfarms
23:48<bd_>okay, let's see if this works now that fstab is fixed
23:48<tjfontaine>12mins til billing
23:48<bd_>NetBSD/i386 (Amnesiac) (console)
23:48<@caker>nice job
23:48<@caker>all hail bdbsd
23:49<bd_>I suppose people will want a howto now :)
23:49<tjfontaine>how do we free the bsd?
23:49<bd_>this is netbsd actually
23:49<@caker>HOW TO FREE THE BSD?
23:49<bd_>I haven't tried freebsd yet
23:49<tjfontaine>oldskool cakerism
23:49*path- grins
23:49<bd_>we have network
23:49<Griswald>You can't free the bsd once it's in the net!
23:50<tjfontaine>up next windows, right bd_? :)
23:50<bd_>no HVM mode on linode :P
23:50<Griswald>That would be scary. Windows Node. XD
23:50<m0unds>boo to winodes
23:50<tjfontaine>I think we know some folks ;)
23:51<charlie>Winode? Windnode?
23:51*charlie personally likes Winode the best
23:51<tjfontaine>wind up the nodes
23:51<m0unds>is more like it
23:51<charlie>i hear that windows is basically shit in Xen, is that true?
23:52<tjfontaine>that's what she said
23:52<jkwood>s#in Xen##
23:52<Griswald>Windows is basically shite anytime.
23:52<Griswald>that would cause the abuse reports to skyrocket if someone ran a windows node
23:52<Griswald>atleast, I would imagine so
23:53<m0unds>heh..if they didn't patch it and were idiots, sure
23:53<m0unds>but the same can be said for *nix
23:53<Griswald>meh. I have to get off of saying lol
23:53-!-mode/#linode [+q *!*] by FloodServ
23:53<jkwood>What if they DID patch it, and were idiots.
23:53<m0unds>then i think the odds are balanced
23:53<m0unds>maybe the universe would implode
23:53<m0unds>who knows
23:54<jkwood>20mg of haxxaring?
23:54<Peng_>Wait, where are the other lol autoresponders?
23:54<Griswald>HAH! BEAT IT!
23:54<@mikegrb>mmm cake
23:54<tjfontaine>let's not abuse this more
23:54<Griswald>apparently, mike dosen't like pie.
23:55<Peng_>tjfontaine: Will he get killed?
23:55<m0unds>that would be funny.
23:55<tjfontaine>not now
23:55<arrgh>hrm, can an1 help me enabling VNC over SSH?
23:55<m0unds>PIE FLOOD
23:55<@caker>4,023,837 <-- hitz for Sep :)
23:55<Griswald>apt-get install vncserver ?
23:56<Griswald>./startx &
23:56<Griswald>then connect?
23:56*caker waits 3 minutes
23:56<tjfontaine>billing here we come
23:56<bd_>I'm half-surprised that redefining PG_X to 0 didn't break things horribly
23:56*m0unds waits for his blackberry to chime
23:56<tjfontaine>what's that define?
23:57<@caker>page execution protection bitz?
23:57<arrgh>it says package vncserver is not availabe but is referred to by another package..
23:57<bd_>tjfontaine: it's one of the page table entry flags that BSD uses, for its software execute-disable thing
23:57<bd_>caker: page execution prevention without hardware support
23:57<bd_>from what I gather, it limits the length of CS to be no longer than the highest executable mapping's last page
23:57<Griswald>rawr. I need a remote control to my tv that has one of those "finder" tones for when I lose it. :(
23:58<m0unds>i just chain mine to the leg of my couch
23:58<bd_>the PG_X is set on PTEs that are executable; however, it only seems to be used to tell when execute rights are /removed/ from a page
23:58<Griswald>I don't have a couch
23:58<Griswald>just an office chair and a bed
23:58<bd_>so in practice removing it Just Works, it seems
23:58<m0unds>chain it to your office chair then
23:58<Griswald>I can't
23:58<Griswald>I break my chair too often
23:58<bd_>modulo crippling the execute prevention stuff
23:58<m0unds>use some boat anchor chain
23:58<m0unds>nail the chain to the floor?
23:58<m0unds>hell, if you used boat anchor chain you wouldn't have to actually attach it TO anything
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has joined #linode
23:59<Griswald>yes, but then I have an annoying boat anchor chain in my room and would possibly stub my toes on it
23:59<m0unds>it would be awesome though
23:59<Griswald>one hell of a talking point
---Logclosed Wed Oct 01 00:00:07 2008