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#linode IRC Logs for 2009-06-18

---Logopened Thu Jun 18 00:00:07 2009
---Daychanged Thu Jun 18 2009
00:00*SelfishMan hides
00:00<chuck>SelfishMan: aha! my ridiculously small screen resolution protected me from viewing the manboobs
00:00<SelfishMan>Error: Unmatched REGEX
00:01<SelfishMan>straterra: bill me for the bandwidth usage
00:01<amitz>and luckily my internet connection is slow. Manage to press stop after seeing loading :-)
00:01<_banana>someone highlight me
00:01-!-mode/#linode [+q *!*] by FloodServ
00:01-!-sardyno [] has joined #linode
00:01<@jed>FloodServ: you fail.
00:02-!-mode/#linode [-q *!*] by jed
00:04<Peng_>jed: Isn't FloodServ's next step /kill?
00:04<@jed>i dunno, is it?
00:04-!-mode/#linode [+q *!*] by FloodServ
00:04-!-mode/#linode [-q *!*] by jed
00:04<SelfishMan>Peng_: jed is an op so those rules don't apply
00:04<Peng_>Oh, neat.
00:04<SelfishMan>Last I heard, he would have to be de-opped to be killed
00:06<tjfontaine>jed: careful you will trigger the kill mechanism
00:06<SelfishMan>The kill still happens?
00:06-!-Pyromancer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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00:06<SelfishMan>jed: hilight _banana some more
00:06<tjfontaine>if you continue to flood after the +q
00:06-!-Martin is now known as Guest772
00:07<tjfontaine>_banana: where in NEO?
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00:13<jetlag>oh noes, emergency maintenance
00:14<Peng_>Eh? Where?
00:14-!-D[a]rkbeholder [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:14<tjfontaine>probably twitter
00:18<jetlag>guess I'll get it done
00:18<eaffa>yeah 5 min graph i guess
00:19<eaffa>% used past 24 hours
00:20<SelfishMan>newark2 has had problems lately hasn't it?
00:20<jetlag>has it?
00:20<SelfishMan>2009-06-17 03:57 < Battousai_> looks like newark2 died again
00:23<jetlag>so that's where that other screen went
00:23<SelfishMan>I wonder if the first batch of newark servers had issues
00:23<SelfishMan>I was on newark8 a few months back when it was replaced
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00:42<jetlag>goodbye, newark2, we had so little time together.
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01:07<linbot>SelfishMan: Availability (360): Atlanta - 62; Dallas - 65; Fremont - 0; Newark - 36; (0.31591) urmom says hi
01:25<Popper123>what command would I run to find out where most of my files are at? (what is taking up the most space?)
01:27<bob2>cd / ; sudo find -print0 -maxdepth 1 -mindepth 1 | xargs -0 du -s | sort -gr | head -n20
01:27<bob2>also on debian and ubuntu, 'dpigs'
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01:31<StevenK>Heh, still nothing in Fremont
01:31<StevenK>Well, no 360s anyway
01:31<SelfishMan>it sucks
01:31<linbot>SelfishMan: Fremont360 - 0, Fremont540 - 0, Fremont720 - 0, Fremont1080 - 0, Fremont1440 - 0, Fremont2880 - 0
01:32<SelfishMan>there ain't no nuttin in fremont
01:32<StevenK>SelfishMan: You're wanting a Fremont node?
01:32*supine watches the tumbleweeds roll through freemont
01:32<SelfishMan>I have a Fremont node, looking at a 360. Possibly a downgrade but not certain
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01:50<kyhwana>mmm, freemont is close to where everyone is?
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01:56<supine>only asia-pacific and US west coast.
01:56<kyhwana>im in asia-pacific :P
01:58<Peng_>kyhwana: Depends on where everyone is, and your definition of "close".
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01:58<Peng_>kyhwana: I mean, Fremont is on the other side of the country, but it's a heck of a lot closer than Alpha Centauri.
01:59<Peng_>s/country/country from me.
01:59<kyhwana>Wake me when Linode have a DC in Alpha Centauri
01:59<Peng_>Latency would be a bitch.
01:59-!-Guspaz [] has joined #linode
01:59<Peng_>And shipping the servers! Wow.
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02:08<iggy>if they put servers on the next shuttle, they'll be there in a few thousand years
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02:17-!-smazurov [~smazurov@] has joined #linode
02:17<smazurov>hello, is anyone around?
02:18<iggy>there are 273 other people here
02:18<smazurov>nice :)
02:19<smazurov>for some reason my server responds with a weird proxy page
02:19<smazurov>instead of a running apache server
02:19<Peng_>smazurov: "weird proxy page"?
02:19<iggy>I get nothing
02:19<smazurov>im not sure where its coming from
02:19<smazurov>could be my connection?
02:20<Peng_>smazurov: I can't connect.
02:20<smazurov>must be my connection
02:20<Peng_>Though it does respond to ping.
02:20<Peng_>smazurov: If you're running Apache, it seems to have gotten firewalled.
02:20<iggy>if you are using opendns, it redirects to a generic search page when a server isn't responding
02:20<Peng_>Or maybe it crashed.
02:21<Peng_>iggy: It can't do that.
02:21<smazurov>yeah im with iggy
02:21<Peng_>iggy: If the DNS server isn't responding, sure, but it doesn't scan random ports on the IPs it returns to see if they're up.
02:21<smazurov>i saw opendns fuck with shit
02:21<iggy>it's happened to me
02:21<smazurov>do ether of you see anything now?
02:21<smazurov>just restarted
02:21<Peng_>smazurov: I think they phrase it differently than "fuck with shit", but yes, that's what they do.
02:22<Peng_>smazurov: Not yet. You sure it can get through your firewall?
02:22<smazurov>i can ssh to the server just fine
02:22<smazurov>rest of the web works fine
02:22<smazurov>i have apache running on port 80
02:22<iggy>netstat -anlp |grep 80
02:22<Peng_>smazurov: Check if Apache is listening on port 80. Check your firewall.
02:23<iggy>and pastebin, don't throw it in here
02:24<SelfishMan>wget -O - -q --post-data="`netstat -anlp | grep 80`"
02:24<smazurov>ha thats easier, SelfishMan
02:24<SelfishMan>I was tired of the whole run this command and then post it somewhere thing
02:25<SelfishMan>so I made a basic service that supports direct posting via wget or curl
02:25<smazurov>works well unless there is something private i suppose
02:25<smazurov>although thats usually not part of the output
02:25<SelfishMan>true but unless the command will be displaying passwords it isn't an issue
02:26<smazurov>looks like apache is working correctly according to netstat, Peng_ and iggy
02:26<iggy>it does
02:26<iggy>do you have some access restrictions?
02:26<smazurov>on the machine? no
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02:27<iggy>iptables? .htaccess? ip restrictions in the apache conf?
02:27<SelfishMan>smazurov: what distro?
02:27<SelfishMan>!f centos firewall
02:27<linbot>SelfishMan: CentOS has a firewall enabled by default. You can use system-config-securitylevel-tui to configure or disable it. (53.452%)
02:28<smazurov>well thats useful linbot, were u been?
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02:29<smazurov>thanks SelfishMan, iggy and Peng_
02:30<Peng_>smazurov: Yeah, it says "Apache HTTP Server Test Page powered by CentOS" now.
02:31<SelfishMan>ugh...wrong channel
02:31<smazurov>do i need to do anything specific to protect the server? From what I remember most seem to just disable selinux
02:32<iggy>don't run crap you don't need
02:33<iggy>I think that's rule #1... or maybe #87
02:33<smazurov>yeah thats pretty much a given
02:33<iggy>disable root and password logins on ssh
02:33<iggy>that's another common one
02:34<smazurov>yeah, thanks iggy
02:35<iggy>maybe check the wiki
02:36<smazurov>on linode?
02:39<amitz>I need to develop IRC log reading skills. Reading from bottom to top makes construction of conversation difficult. Reading from top to bottom takes time when the log is long.. Any tip?
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02:40<iggy>pretend nothing happened when you were gone
02:41<iggy>we all just wait around for you to show up before we talk
02:44<amitz>that's.. acceptable.. :-)
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03:43<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's so ugly they filmed 'Gorillas in the Mist' in her shower! (810:0/0) [rmoum]
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03:43<SelfishMan>had to break up the screen full of connect/disconnect messages
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03:43-!-[1]Guspaz is now known as Guspaz
03:43<Peng_>I'm sure all the people disconnecting would have preferred not to too. :P
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03:56<SelfishMan>Really? Get rich quick type thing for Twitter?
04:00<mig5>christ.. popups on exit
04:01<mig5>someones gotta make money out of it.. sure isnt Twitter itself
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04:08<SelfishMan>noscript FTW
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04:29<linbot>New news from forums: server compromised? in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
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05:39<mario_>and you're shouting
05:39<krmdrms>Goodmorning Yaakov :)
05:40<Yaakov>It's a beautiful day to have a Linode.
05:40<G>Still no Fedora 11 images....
05:40<G>(or even 10 for that matter)
05:44<linbot>Yaakov: Current solar flux: magnetic 1.06e+02 nT (GOES-12), xray 3.73e-09 W/m^2 (GOES-10)
05:44<praetorian>!urmum flux
05:44<linbot>praetorian: Yo momma's so insecure, she gets exploited more than Roundcube! (744:10/0) [ommur]
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06:48<Peng_>"With Parrot, crafting a new programming language is as easy as authoring a new website." <-- as long as your average web "developer" doesn't write his own language.... :P
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07:25<Peng_>!skynet 10,000 AUD in USD
07:25<linbot>Peng_: $ 7946 (US dollars) (current quoted value)
07:25<Peng_>linbot: botsnack
07:25<linbot>thanks, Peng_!
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07:50<mib_55bbqh6a>what do you think of namecheap? their site is slow at times, hopefully I made a good choice
07:51<krmdrms>if its not slower than godaddy you made a good choice :)
07:51<Peng_>mib_55bbqh6a: They're popular here. Never used 'em myself.
07:54<Yaakov>I USE GO DADDY
07:54<straterra>1and1 is what i use
07:54<Yaakov>1and1 is a chick registrar.
07:56<Yaakov>Hello, my favorite interstellar indigent.
07:57<Yaakov>Parrot is pretty cool stuff.
07:57<Yaakov>Perl6 is going to be very different from the previous perl in a lot of important ways, though they insist that it will be largely compatible.
07:59-!-Talman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:59<Yaakov>Well, the object model is totally different.
07:59<npmr>oh boy!
08:00<npmr>new object model!
08:00<Yaakov>The parser is more strict, because they needed less ambiguity.
08:00<Yaakov>The syntax is a lot more modern, with . notation, and other niceties.
08:01<Yaakov>There is a lot CS geeky action going on in the langauge too. Which I am not really following.
08:02<Yaakov>The demos I have seen are very impressive, but it is going to take a lot of work for me to get fluent in it.
08:02<Yaakov>Yes, I think it will be.
08:03<npmr>how did they reconcile the desire to add an additional dereference operator with the goal of syntax disambiguation?
08:03<Yaakov>It will certainly resemble Python more closely, but the only significant whitespace in Perl6 is related to function arguments, I think. They require a space to clarify the intention.
08:03<Yaakov>Literally just one space.
08:04<Yaakov>npmr: The syntax is a fixed specification now, you can look at it. There are no duplications as far as I understand because they needed every symbol.
08:05<npmr>"need" is such a strong word
08:06<npmr>it's been years, but i think C++ had multiple dereference operators as well
08:06<HoopyCat>heaven-o there!
08:07<npmr>with the additional caveat that they actually served different dereferencing needs
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08:09<Yaakov>SpaceHobo: The . system is for methods, it replaces the -> because hashes aren't the basis for OO any more.
08:09<npmr>so if an object isn't a blessed hash anymore, what is it?
08:09<Yaakov>SpaceHobo: I doubt it, but it needs at least one space.
08:09-!-mawolf [] has quit []
08:10<Yaakov>In perl 5, whitespace is meaningless unless it is between identifiers, in Perl6, there will be a space required in an argument, which is not how it is now.
08:12<npmr>oh dear lord they've kept blessed hashes and introduced classes as an orthogonal concept
08:13<npmr>so, um, i'm a little behind on the python thing
08:14<npmr>i kept trying to learn it, but could never actually be bothered to finish
08:15<npmr>is there a semantic difference?
08:15<npmr>array vs. linked list storage so something?
08:16<Peng_>SpaceHobo: Some people say that tuples are supposed to be records, FWIW.
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08:46<straterra>Yaakov: Yes?
08:47<Yaakov>I LOVE YOU MAN
08:47<straterra>Why's that?
08:47-!-DrZipie [] has joined #linode
08:47<Yaakov>I just do. Live with it.
08:48<straterra>You gonna play trade wars?
08:48<HoopyCat>if it can be played from within irssi, i will play
08:48<straterra>screen + split + irssi + telnet
08:49<Yaakov>Then it can be palyed from within Irssi, no screen needed.
08:49<straterra>How so?
08:49<straterra>Is there a telnet-window plugin?
08:49<Yaakov>No, /exec -interactive <something>
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08:50<straterra>Will that actually work?
08:50<mwalling>does your mom actually work?
08:50<straterra>Yeah, she's a chemist
08:50<straterra>eli lilly
08:51<Yaakov>Euphemsisms aren't necessary.
08:51<Yaakov>straterra: I went to North Central.
08:51-!-mario_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:51<straterra>I used to run with the 1-0's
08:52<Yaakov>I graduated in 1980.
08:52<straterra>I know where bodies are buries in i465
08:52-!-mario is now known as pygi
08:52<Yaakov>I lived at 86th and Harcourt, approximately.
08:53<HoopyCat>i have no idea what you two are talking about
08:53<straterra>Yaakov: Really?
08:53<Yaakov>HoopyCat: That's nothing new.
08:53<mwalling>HoopyCat: urmom
08:53<Yaakov>straterra: Yes, really.
08:53<straterra>Where do you live now?
08:53<Yaakov>Somewhere in the Great Lakes Region.
08:54<straterra>Still in Indiana?
08:54<straterra>I'm up in that area (86th) quite a bit..not quite that west though
08:55<Yaakov>I live within an 80-mile circle centered in Lake Michigan and the latitude of Chicago.
08:55<HoopyCat>i live somewhere in the great lakes region too. hmmm
08:55<straterra>That's too much work tofigure out :P
08:55<Yaakov>straterra: I lived very close to St. Vincent's.
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08:56<straterra>Oh, I know
08:56<straterra>If you ever come back in to town, lemme know..we shall grab some beers
08:56<JshWright>I live about 50 miles from a great lake...
08:56<straterra>I live about 50 miles from urmom's great lake
08:56<Yaakov>In the North Willow Farms development.
08:57<straterra>I grew up on the east side of downtown Indy
08:57<straterra>Why am I a punk?
08:57<Yaakov>You and your cars.
08:57<Yaakov>And you drive a riceburner?!
08:57<straterra>It's not a rice burner
08:58<straterra>My car is actually very clean
08:58<Yaakov>It's not a Chevy!
08:58<Nivex>who drives urmom?
08:58<straterra>I've never owned a chevy o.O
08:58<straterra>Nivex: My penis
08:58<Nivex>how literalist
08:58<Yaakov>You need to get yourself a Dodge Charger, in yellow.
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08:58<straterra>I have a better idea
08:59<straterra>Challenger SRT
08:59<straterra>6.1L Hemi...with a supercharger
08:59<HoopyCat>i'm so great-lakes-region, the toilet is entirely gravity-powered from raincloud to public beach
08:59<Yaakov>OK... but something that belongs on the east side!
08:59<straterra>I live on the south side now
08:59<straterra>There's actually a very large racing scene on the south side..mostly older guys in muscle cars
09:00<Yaakov>There was a rivalry at the time I was there.
09:00<straterra>There still is, to a point
09:00<Yaakov>Though I think the south side probably had them beat.
09:00<straterra>Oh yeah
09:00<straterra>And I'll get a muscle car someday :)
09:01<straterra>I'd like to keep the Eclipse, work on it, and get an older car too
09:01<straterra>Grand National, maybe
09:01<Yaakov>When I was there, the cars were NEW.
09:01<Yaakov>It was the 70's.
09:01<Yaakov>And the used ones were only a few years old.
09:01<straterra>My car is new ;/
09:01<Yaakov>I mean the muscle cars.
09:02<straterra> should see all the civics
09:02<straterra>And most of them are the like..mid to late 80's
09:03<straterra>With a mexican driving and every bolt on from autozone
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09:04<straterra>There are a more people with bikes now, too..especially since its summer time
09:05<HoopyCat>straterra: you can tell the noobs... they don't use the right paint on the exhaust, so it burns off after a couple squirts of nitrous and you can see the Maxwell House logo
09:06<HoopyCat>as someone whose bedroom window is about 15 feet from a quiet residential street (and whose bedtime is about 10pm), i have a special appreciation for the mobile soundscape arts
09:06<straterra>God..they've been putting 'art' downtown
09:07<straterra>It just looks like random hunks of metal sitting on grass
09:07<Nivex>"art" here is a giant column of light shooting up in the sky. Can you say "light pollution" ?
09:07<straterra>GLOBAL WARMING
09:08<HoopyCat>p.s. to fire department: perhaps a kill switch on the wwwwwoooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooo siren might be in order. "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....."
09:09<JshWright>A lot of fire departments have these neat little boxes they give out to everybody that go "beepbeepbeepbeep", thus eliminating the need for the siren
09:09<mwalling>station sirens ftw
09:09<JshWright>It's fairly new technology (40 years or so...), so I can see why some departments are still catching up
09:09<HoopyCat>no, not the station siren
09:09<straterra>HoopyCat: light the firehouse on fire o.O
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09:10<mwalling>HoopyCat: you mean the Q?
09:10<JshWright>HoopyCat: the Fed-Q on the truck?
09:10<JshWright>those almost always do have brakes on them
09:10<HoopyCat>about 30 seconds of fifteen bazillion sirens moving rapidly, followed by each siren stopping in fairly quick succession... except for the... yes, probably that one.
09:11<mwalling>straterra: yeah, FedQ are mechanical sirens
09:12<JshWright>It's a rotating drum with air passing through slits that are opening and closing rapidly that makes that classic "air raid" sound
09:12<mwalling>correction: old school
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09:12<JshWright>(put simply...)
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09:12<HoopyCat>ok! that would be the one, and that would explain it
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09:12<straterra>Electric motor driven?
09:12<JshWright>most of them do have brakes though (for those times when you forget which truck you're in and bump the wrong pedal...
09:12<mwalling>straterra: now a days
09:13<mwalling>JshWright: been there done that :)
09:13<straterra>Did they used to be steam powered or something?
09:13<HoopyCat>so it's probably human error and not a design flaw. that's fine then. :-)
09:13<straterra>Or like..hooked on the exhaust with a blow off?
09:13<JshWright>Actaully, a lot of them hook to a compressed air system (ala the air horn)
09:14<straterra>My grandpa had a train horn on his F150
09:14<HoopyCat>mwalling: "
09:14<HoopyCat>mwalling: "45 minutes after arriving on scene, it finally goes quiet
09:14<HoopyCat>mwalling: best youtube comment evar
09:14<mwalling>HoopyCat: some time i'll time how long it takes my old stations siren to spin down from an activation
09:15<mwalling>we've returned to service, gone to get in our cars, and its still spinning down
09:15<straterra>They can't just use a speaker and an ipod? :P
09:15<JshWright>Like I said... Motorola makes these neat little boxes...
09:15<HoopyCat>mwalling: $UsedToWorkThere is about a mile or so south of the firehouse, and the smoking porch was on the north side of the NOC
09:15<mwalling>JshWright: we're still dispatching on 46.48
09:16<JshWright>mwalling: So are we, but it's repeated
09:16<HoopyCat>mwalling: i loved standing out there during snowfalls, smoking a couple cigarettes, sipping some coffee, and listening to the siren
09:17<mwalling>JshWright: we dont
09:17<mwalling>JshWright: we're moving dispatch to 155.925 RSN
09:17<mwalling>but its been RSN for a couple years
09:18<JshWright>We're in the midst of upgrading to a trunked system, not sure if that means the gonna dump the low-band or not...
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09:18<mwalling>and here i thought we were the last county in the state on low
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09:19<JshWright>Most of the county just uses the high band, but when you get in the hills south of Syracuse, good luck with that...
09:20<mwalling>we mutal aid into schenectady county, so all of our trucks have 2 radios, and our med truck has 3 :/
09:22<straterra>3? o.O
09:22<JshWright>high band, low band, state EMS?
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09:23<HoopyCat>three radios ain't too bad... it's all in the speaker placement
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09:24<JshWright> have 2 radios in the bambulances, but that's only becuse one is dual-band, otherwise it'd be 3
09:24<mwalling>JshWright: 46 (saratoga co fire), 155 (ems), 800 (schenectady co)
09:24<HoopyCat>unfortunately, i have two going through one speaker, so i have to glance at the display to figure out which one it is (or make note of the slightly different sound of the different repeaters, or wait for the end-of-transmission beeps)
09:25<mwalling>HoopyCat: ha, you're funny... all three heads are stacked in the console, people put the hand mics in the wrong spot, and all the speakers run together
09:25<HoopyCat>JshWright: from a things-to-monitor standpoint, dual-band radios count as two radios
09:25<HoopyCat>mwalling: hahaha
09:25<mwalling>i've called enroute to schenectady county fire before... they weren't amused
09:26<JshWright>HoopyCat: not for simple firefighters... They just know what preset buttons to press
09:26<HoopyCat>mwalling: well, you just need to wire all the mics together
09:26<mwalling>HoopyCat: har
09:27<mwalling>irony: that med truck is my old department's truck: they sold it to my current department for $5k
09:27<HoopyCat>mwalling: that'd be a great proposal to submit on april 1... "Simplifying Multi-Radio Communications"
09:27<mwalling>in our older ETA, the trunked radio has a telephone handset as its mic, easy to tell from the saratoga county
09:28<HoopyCat>biggest problem i run into is -- i have no idea why people think this is a good idea -- people sitting on the mic
09:28<mwalling>heh, open mic :)
09:29<HoopyCat>mwalling: when that happens, i switch the HT over to the input frequency... if i hear something, i grab my shotgun and start DFing
09:29<JshWright>Generahappens during...unfortunate... conversations to
09:30<mwalling>JshWright: like when the hicks from the north end of the county are talking about banging the cheif's wife?
09:30<HoopyCat>hee hee
09:30<mwalling>(true story)
09:30<JshWright>More or less... yeah...
09:30<straterra>I want a CB to talk to random people o.O
09:30<straterra>It'll be like..IRC
09:31<MarkJ>oh, so like real life then
09:31<HoopyCat>straterra: ham radio is great!
09:31<JshWright>Or when someone is _actaully_ banging his girlfriend and she ends up sitting on the mic...
09:31<amitz>well, scarier than IRC. You know about the other party less, assuming limited spoofing.
09:32<MarkJ>btw HoopyCat from this morning's BBS discussion David Nugent's an active participant in LUV (a linux LUG) down here in Melbourne, remember when I saw more posts tonight
09:32<straterra>Don't you need to register for HAM?
09:32<HoopyCat>MarkJ: nice! does he IRC at all? if so, he may well understand ;-)
09:32<MarkJ>I don't know...
09:32<amitz>and they're in a close enough distance to physically mess with you :-p
09:32<MarkJ>straterra: I know you need a license here in Australia
09:32<MarkJ>and you get a 6 characer sign
09:33<amitz>oh, that's something you have to register? hmm i see.
09:33<MarkJ>straterra: how did TW go, no deal?
09:33<HoopyCat>straterra: licensing is required. that's a bit of a high-pass filter. (a bit)
09:33<straterra>MarkJ: I'm waiting on my key
09:33<straterra>I bought it
09:33<MarkJ>nice one!
09:34<HoopyCat>however, only licensed hams may use the West Michigan Privately Owned Repeater Network.
09:34<straterra>WINDOW MANAGER PORN!
09:34<MarkJ>interesting, BRE etc is still commercial $ for full versions
09:35<MarkJ>unless that's changed since the page's 2001 copyright
09:35<Nivex>"Recently this repeater has been nicknamed the Porn-Star repeater..."
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09:35<amitz>HoopyCat: you didn't lull out enough.
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09:42<jtsage>grr. i need to be able to send a 'F3' to something running in screen. but, f3 is bound to prev window, anybody know how to unbind it temporarily?
09:42<HoopyCat>amitz: <--- i defer all radio-related lulls there
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09:50<amitz>yeah, I can see an (at least) A breasted guy there. :-p
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10:34<pygmalion>anyone know of a good cli-based file manager (ala midnight commander) that has vim-like keybindings out of the box?
10:34-!-tiny [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:35<pygmalion>SpaceHobo: lol i know bash does. i meant a more visual manager.
10:36<litwol|mac>pygmalion: you can do file browsing via vim
10:36<litwol|mac>just do vim .
10:37<pygmalion>litwol|mac: true, but i am looking for more file *managing* aka rm, mv, cp, etc. the vim file browser is more for just browsing
10:37<pygmalion>SpaceHobo: correc
10:38<pygmalion>SpaceHobo: yeah i guess you're right. someone recommended mc to me and i don't like it but i wanted to see if it was mc the person was really recommended or just a more graphical file manager
10:38<linbot>Q: Whats the point of the lolz bot? A: To discourage the gratuitous use of the term.
10:38<linbot>pygmalion: Yo momma's so fat, she tried to eat CmdrTaco! (818:1/2) [omrum]
10:39<pygmalion>so a cli-gui flie browser has all of the bloat of a gui but none of the benefit?
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10:41<amitz>programming with python can be detrimental. You just can't resist the temptation to make it neater..
10:41<tjfontaine>define: neater
10:42<amitz>oh, more concise, elegant?
10:42<nacht>like.... how i spend so much time renaming all my variables?
10:43<JshWright>how much time does that take?
10:43<nacht>it varies
10:43<tjfontaine>all about how anal rententive you are
10:43<JshWright>if it takes more than a couple seconds, you're doing it wrong...
10:43<amitz>no, more like how to make it pleasing to my eye, a one liner simple statement, etc.
10:43<tjfontaine>you're all prono for list comprehensions aren't you
10:44<amitz>yeah, that list comprehension thing is awesome :-D
10:44<purrdeta>tjfontaine: thanks for yesterday btw :P
10:44<tjfontaine>purrdeta: np
10:44<purrdeta>you are win :P
10:44<tjfontaine>you guys would rather have 10 list comprehensions than one loop
10:44<tjfontaine>purrdeta: my pleasure
10:44<amitz>the possibility makes me more anal retentive.
10:45<nacht>i have never seen list comprehension
10:45<nacht>i like it
10:46<nacht>very mathematical
10:46<amitz>not only list comprehension. There are some "often used" operation that is a one liner in python.
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10:49<nacht>speaking of programming in python
10:49<nacht>im trying to send an email with it
10:49<nacht>to a gmail account
10:50<nacht>and im confusing myself
10:50<nacht>because it wants authentication... but what if i dont have it?
10:51<nacht>if im not from a gmail account myself
10:52<HoopyCat>if it's more than an academic exercise, i recommend just installing an MTA and letting it handle all the routing of e-mail
10:52<nacht>like postfix?
10:52<amitz>you want to use python to send an email from somewhere to a gmail account, or to use python to send an email from a gmail account to anywhere?
10:53<HoopyCat>nacht: whatever your distro prefers as its default will usually be the path of least resistance... but yeah, like postfix
10:53<amitz>hmm... I should probably back to lurking. nacht is on the right hand.
10:53<nacht>from my local non-gmail account (on our linode) to anywhere, including, and starting with, gmail
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10:53<nacht>somehow i got the idea that MTAs just received mail
10:53<nacht>but thats dumb
10:54<HoopyCat>nacht: most of the art is in the sending of mail
10:55<nacht>i think i got that idea because i couldnt find in postfix's documentation anything about sending mail
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11:03<straterra>I'm buying a magicjack!
11:06<straterra>ITS SEX
11:06<nacht>i think i might have a problem
11:06<straterra>Erection lasted longer than 4 hours?
11:06<nacht>besides that
11:06<nacht>well nevermind
11:06<JshWright>you really should get that addressed first...
11:07<HoopyCat>nacht: sending mail is a special case of receiving mail, pretty much. it's all relative; postfix receives messages from places and sends them to other places
11:07<nacht>yeah i got it now
11:07<nacht>sendmail is the command
11:08<nacht>hey, how come when i try to use my username instead of root and then do sudo, it says i cant sudo and it will be reprted?
11:08<HoopyCat>the /usr/sbin/sendmail command is a de facto standard for submitting mail to the MTA (since the old de facto standard MTA was named 'sendmail')
11:09<JshWright>because you're not in /etc/sudoers
11:09<nacht>i thought i put tried that
11:10<nacht>where do i put myself
11:11<HoopyCat>scott: yessir, wireless keyboards are full of security fail.
11:11<HoopyCat>nacht: rtucker ALL=(ALL) ALL
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11:12<nacht>what do those ALLs mean anyway?
11:12<HoopyCat>then adduser rtucker, and create a ~rtucker/.ssh/authorized_keys containing my public key, then set the password to "rekcutr", and let me know the IP address and i'll "finish" "configuring" "your" system
11:12<HoopyCat>nacht: man sudoers
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11:13<HoopyCat>nacht: in short, it lets you run any command on any host as any user
11:14<nacht>now i dont have to log in as root any more! =D
11:14<HoopyCat>well, that's why we have two of them
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11:14<mgoetze>some linodes are hosted at theplanet, right?
11:14<JshWright>Three of them, really... If you count the plan itself
11:15<HoopyCat>nacht: note that anyone with access to your account and knowledge of your password (which can be obtained with just access to your account) can now be root, too!
11:15<mgoetze>i'm seeing occasional packet loss between theplanet's presence at LINX and their US network, anyone else having problems?
11:15<HoopyCat>mgoetze: yup, the ones in dallas
11:15<nacht>oh of course
11:16<mgoetze>(this is not linode-related on my part but i figured someone here might know something)
11:16<HoopyCat>mgoetze: again?! mrrf. !mtr-dallas will fire off a summary mtr from within dallas if that helps :-)
11:17<mgoetze>to my irc address?
11:17<mgoetze>i believe i've connected to irc via ipv6 so that might not be helpful
11:17<HoopyCat>JshWright: within the US, planes still don't land themselves, alas. this is, however, why they have flight attendants and employee discounts :-)
11:17<HoopyCat>mgoetze: nope, to any arbitrary address
11:17<linbot>HoopyCat: [mtr] 8 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 106.8ms
11:18<HoopyCat>mgoetze: and a few of the !mtr-* nodes do support IPv6, but that would not be helpful for your application
11:18<linbot>mgoetze: [mtr] 12 hops, static-87-79-92-187.netcolog: 20.0%/172.0ms
11:18<tjfontaine>dallas does not speak ipv6
11:18<tjfontaine>because I run the -dallas on
11:18<HoopyCat>dallas is not one of them, and neither is atlanta (because it's even less useful: its IPv6 connectivity is via newark)
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11:19<foca>I'm having trouble logging into the manager, and the email I have with you is directed at a server running in one of my slices, which is currently down, so I can't reset my password.
11:20<foca>(yes, I'm aware how incredibly stupid that was from me)
11:20<foca>any idea how I can go around and solve this?
11:21<foca>maybe someone at linode can manually boot my vps so I can reset my password?
11:21<linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log into the LPM. Lish's primary function is to allow you access to your server's console, even if networking is disabled.
11:21<HoopyCat>foca: ^--- you can ssh into the console and fire off a reboot job
11:21<HoopyCat>foca: you can also pop an e-mail to and... i dunno what the procedure is in your situation, but they can probably whitelist your IP manually
11:22<foca>argh, fail
11:22<tjfontaine>also, we use nodes here, not slices
11:22<foca>HoopyCat: no, the problem is that my CC was overflowed and couldn't pay for my slices
11:22<foca>nodes :)
11:22<tjfontaine>that doesn't usually disable logging into the LPM
11:23<HoopyCat>foca: oh! you've got a stack of problems. :-) yes,, 'tho a phone call might be a good idea too
11:23<foca>correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to use Lish I have to log into the manager, right?
11:23<tjfontaine>well, no, but you have to have an active account
11:24<HoopyCat>foca: nope, ssh, where xxxxx is your linode's ID, datacenter is the city name (fremont, dallas, etc), and yyy is the host number
11:24<foca>oh, I'll write that down for next time :)
11:25<HoopyCat>file it in your password manager right next to the root password :-)
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11:28<@mikegrb>foca: your linode is booting
11:29<foca>mikegrb awesome!
11:30<foca>I'll reset the password, log in, and pay what's overdue
11:30<foca>thanks :D
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11:41*HoopyCat rummages through the wiring closet on a quest for a missing amplifier
11:41<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: it's in mine, sorry
11:41<HoopyCat>i own too much utter crap
11:42<tjfontaine>I'm sure the wife agrees
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11:44<linbot>New news from forums: Confusing dist-upgrade warnings.. in General Discussion <>
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11:47<KingTarquin>I am trying to set up trac to auth when people click the login link, but it throws an error, yet someone with a very similar virtualhost setup, has it working. I can't work out why its doing this, anyone?
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11:52<bd_>about time \o/
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11:55<nacht>ok this is weird
11:56<nacht>i do usermod -p password username
11:56<nacht>but when i try to log in to username, it still says authentication failure
11:56<nacht>also, i su username from root
11:56<nacht>and then do passwd
11:56<bd_>-p is the encrypted password
11:56<nacht>and authentication failure there too
11:56<bd_>use passwd <username> as root
11:57<bd_>if you use passwd as the user you need to have a valid password to start with. :)
11:58<nacht>confoundit... i confuse myself i lot
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12:16<DephNet[Paul]>im running a yum update on my Fedora linode, but I am getting the following, anything I try to update comes up with a similar error, any idea what needs to be done to allow me to update?
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12:19<laser`>That's a good question
12:23<litwol|mac>DephNet[Paul]: debian based solutions have similar issue when the source url requires a key (or so i think). each source may have different requirements, you could try to find out if fedora has something similar
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12:28<DephNet[Paul]>litwol|mac, got it, there was a corrupt key installed, so a yum clean all sorted it out, but thanks for your help anyway
12:28<litwol|mac>good to know
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12:35<fapestniegd>rpm --import <pubkey>
12:36<fapestniegd>gpg --keyserver --recv-keys <KEYID> ; gpg --export -a <KEYID> | apt-key add -
12:36<fapestniegd>rpm/dpkg respectively
12:39<linbot>New news from wiki: Asterisk <>
12:42<linbot>purrdeta: Yo momma's so ugly, we had to turn the lights off last night... (814:0/1) [ommru]
12:43<purrdeta>I see...
12:43<purrdeta>!urmom vote down 814
12:43<linbot>purrdeta: Voted 814 down [mmuro]
12:43<dajhorn>Is Linode bandwidth calculated per month, or as a rolling average?
12:44<purrdeta>per month
12:45<dajhorn>purrdeta: Is the period the 1st of the month, or the billing day?
12:45<dajhorn>Spiffy. (Thanks.)
12:45<mwalling>oh ffs
12:46<nacht>it's not a strict thing though, right?
12:46<mwalling> is full of bullshit
12:46<nacht>they won't penalize you if you go over by a few kilobytes
12:46<DephNet[Paul]>i *think* the limits are soft limits
12:46<dajhorn>mwalling: How so?
12:46<mwalling>dajhorn: because ztdummy compiles just fine into -linode18
12:46<mwalling>and every other kernel i've tried
12:47<dajhorn>mwalling: Yes, but it was way too much work. Compiler commands are scary for dumb people like me.
12:48<dajhorn>mwalling: I trust my distro vendor. I don't trust a blog.
12:48<mwalling>you dont trust phennessy?
12:48<dajhorn>mwalling: Nope. ;)
12:49<dajhorn>mwalling: Using distro packages gives me that warm fuzzy feeling that the system will survive an upstream upgrade.
12:49<mwalling>your wiki page implies that the *ONLY* way to do * on a linode is with pv_ops
12:49<mwalling>which is bullshit
12:49<HoopyCat>dajhorn: the billing day is also the first of the month
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12:50<phennessy>mwalling: no big deal. i don't trust me either.
12:50-!-DrZipie [] has joined #linode
12:50<dajhorn>mwalling: Bullshit? Go paint the bikeshed.
12:51<mwalling>dajhorn: you said "you must load a kernel through pv-grub that has pv_ops and HPT capabilities"
12:51<HoopyCat>FWIW, i'd never thought of the use-the-distro-kernel method of getting dahdi_dummy installed
12:51<mwalling>there are plenty of us here, right now, that dont do that
12:51<phennessy>a lot of people use distro packages for asterisk. the stuff on my blog is only to load the dahdi modules, which are only necessary for meetme.
12:51<mwalling>(i'm just the most hot headed)
12:51<phennessy>and only if you use the linode kernel. i would NEVER consider using a distro kernel on a linode.
12:52<HoopyCat>i am happy to know there's more than one way to skin the cat. however, yeah, the "must" is a wee bit misleading :-)
12:52<phennessy>it's completely false.
12:53<phennessy>not misleading.
12:53<HoopyCat>at best, it's a "can"
12:53<dajhorn>The option to run the distro kernel through pv-grub is one of the snazziest features of Linode.
12:53<phennessy>it's also one of the riskiest
12:53<phennessy>you're using an unsupported method for a production server?
12:54<phennessy>if you were a kernel developer that wanted to test, or someone that wanted to "play" with bsd.
12:54-!-DrZipie [] has quit []
12:54<phennessy>but you're going to get 0 support from linode except that, them confirming that grub is launched
12:54-!-J-Node [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:57-!-rogi [] has joined #linode
12:57<dajhorn>phennessy: If Linode technical support offers any kind of support in userland, then that would be a surprisingly awesome feature.
12:58<mwalling>they support their kernels till init is called, and even a little after. they support pvgrub up to getting a grub console
12:59<phennessy>meaning if your distro kernel OOPSs all the time because of something lame it's doing with xen, they aren't going to help you.
12:59<HoopyCat>(there's a reason Latest 2.6 is still not a pv_ops kernel ;-)
12:59<HoopyCat>(('tho i forget what it is))
12:59<phennessy>stability probably
13:00<phennessy>whatever though, opinions are like assholes. everyone has one.
13:00<HoopyCat>phennessy: the pv_ops kernels were hell for me on bluemoon; ditched the centos and life's been good since (!)
13:00<nacht>thats a big assumption
13:00<nacht>that everyone has an asshole
13:00<HoopyCat>urmom has a big assumption
13:01<HoopyCat>nacht: if you're missing an asshole, please feel free to disagree with mwalling; he'll rip you a new one
13:01<nacht>im not
13:01*mwalling glares
13:01<nacht>um just sayin... someone might
13:01<mwalling>at nacht , not HoopyCat
13:02*nacht blushes
13:02*dajhorn paints the Asterisk page green for mwalling
13:03<HoopyCat>if you're not sure if you have an asshole or not, enjoy a nice cup of poison ivy tea
13:05<mwalling>dajhorn: you forgot to log in when you edited
13:05<mwalling>dajhorn: also, you skipped changing the "must"
13:05<HoopyCat>(WARNING: do not actually consume poison ivy; there will be trouble when the oil hits the anus)
13:05-!-a [] has joined #linode
13:05<tjfontaine>also do not burn it, there will be trouble when the oil hits the lungs
13:06<dajhorn>*phew* hard work. Going for lunch.
13:06<HoopyCat>you're gonna need an ocean, of calamine lotion
13:08-!-brainproxy [] has quit [Quit: brainproxy]
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13:13<r3z>Ok if I want to list allusers and groups they belong to I am assuming I have to write a script to do it?
13:14<HoopyCat>r3z: should be a quick one-liner
13:14<HoopyCat>cut -d':' -f1 | xargs -n1 id or something like that
13:14<tjfontaine>I see the question now
13:15<tjfontaine>getent passwd | cut -d: -f1 | xargs -n1 id
13:15<tjfontaine>just incase you missed what HoopyCat was saying
13:16<HoopyCat>oh, right, i forgot to feed /etc/passwd into it now didn't i
13:16<r3z>ya heh
13:16<tjfontaine>getent passwd is a bit more sane than /etc/passwd though, it'll work regardless of your authentication system
13:16<tjfontaine>mostly :)
13:16<HoopyCat>sorry, just found a GE transmitter that weighs approximately a lot
13:17<tjfontaine>I need to buy a new MBP battery
13:18-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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13:20<HoopyCat>boy, i have no idea wtf this thing is. (aside from, obviously, a transceiver of some sort, old enough that it was actually made in the USA)... it's got a callsign on the front of it, maybe there'll be something in ULS...
13:20-!-anilm [] has joined #linode
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13:22<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Picture?
13:24<HoopyCat>workin' on it
13:26<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Model numbder?
13:27<erikh>speaking of trancievers, I'm crying a small tear for my hauppage pvr-150, which was rendered useless this week
13:28<r3z>erikh, not if you have cable!
13:28<HoopyCat>Yaakov: i believe RG56TAU66
13:29<HoopyCat>erikh: you can still watch the nightlight signal for a few more weeks!
13:30-!-megatron27 [~megatron2@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:30<HoopyCat>Yaakov: not pictured: a box of cabling and stuff, including its head, which has a "MONITOR" button, a volume knob, and a microphone jack. oh, and a raised GENERAL ELECTRIC insignia
13:30<HoopyCat>(might help if i post the picture, hmm?)
13:30<nacht>oooh pills
13:31<erikh>r3z: comcast, my provider, has done to a full digital signal
13:31<HoopyCat>nacht: yeah, so i didn't sanitize the background
13:31<r3z>erikh, really?
13:31<phennessy>i have analog over comcast
13:31<r3z>I doubt that.
13:31<erikh>well I don't
13:31<xorl>hmm, linode have anything in the chicago area?
13:31-!-rchargoy [] has joined #linode
13:31<erikh>and my pvr is prove
13:31<erikh>err, proof
13:31<r3z>You should call them.
13:31<erikh>sorry, monitoring yet another broken mysql slave
13:31<HoopyCat>xorl: dallas is probably the closest network-wise
13:31<phennessy>i don't have anything between the cable and my tv
13:32<xorl>HoopyCat: Figured as much.
13:32<erikh>no, the other pvr device (ati digital tuner) works great.
13:32<rchargoy>hello, someone here speak spanish ?
13:32<tjfontaine>un poquito
13:33<HoopyCat>xorl: for what it's worth, the path between rochester, ny and newark, nj goes through chicago and it is perfectly cromulent, too, so newark's a good bet
13:34-!-bck [~bck@] has joined #linode
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13:35<HoopyCat>nacht: i do note the allergy pills are almost, but not quite, keeping me from sneezing up a poostorm from all the dust i'm kicking up in here
13:35-!-DrZipie [] has joined #linode
13:35<nacht>sure they are
13:35<nacht>allergy pills
13:36<HoopyCat>nacht: well, the bottle not labelled "Allergy Relief" doesn't contain allergy pills, no
13:37<nacht>gotta stay hoopy, right?
13:37<HoopyCat>something like that >:-)
13:38-!-girishr [~girish@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:38<xorl>anyone remember the meta file to install the dev tools on debian
13:38<HoopyCat>build-essentials ?
13:39<xorl>that's ubuntu
13:39<HoopyCat>xorl: ubuntu and debian aren't that different
13:39<rchargoy>tjfontaine necesito saber si me acabo mi transferencia mensual, entonces que pasa
13:39<xorl>HoopyCat: package repositories are :)
13:39<xorl>ah it's build-essential(s) no s
13:40-!-rogi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:40<HoopyCat>figured it was one or the other ;-)
13:40<HoopyCat>xorl: last change to ubuntu's build-essential: Matthias Klose <> Fri, 11 Jul 2008 01:05:30 +0200
13:40<tjfontaine>!ops he has a question about his account :)
13:40<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful community.
13:41<tjfontaine>I need to know if I've finished my monthly transfer, and then what happens
13:41<tjfontaine>or so
13:41<HoopyCat>xorl: ubuntu is just debian with a spit-shine, a marketing branch, and a more regular release schedule ;-)
13:41<rchargoy>yea this is exactly that i need know
13:42<tjfontaine>rchargoy: if you use all your bandwidth you get charged more
13:42<linbot>Available Add-ons: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP: $ 1 per IP/month
13:42<tjfontaine>I just understood the real question
13:42<tjfontaine>Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month
13:42-!-arooni-mobile [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43-!-DrZipie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43<tjfontaine>rchargoy: The account stays active, you are charged for the extra though
13:44-!-ph^ [~ph^] has joined #linode
13:44<rchargoy>thanks for this answer
13:44<@irgeek>If your Linode is monthly you'll be billed for the Linode and the transfer at the same time.
13:46<rchargoy>tjfontaine thnks!!!
13:46<tjfontaine>glad to be of service
13:46<Yaakov>HoopyCat: It is an Executive Mobile, 12V negative ground, 16-38 W, Trunk Mount, 1 frequency, Channel Guard (CTCSS), 150.8-174 MHz.
13:46<@irgeek>Now say that 10 times fast.
13:47<Yaakov>HoopyCat: HTH HAND
13:47<HoopyCat>Yaakov: hmmm... might not be too tough to get 'er down to 146MHz. thanks! (how'd you find that?)
13:48<Yaakov>Might want to order some manuals.
13:49<HoopyCat>Yaakov: sweeet
13:49-!-mario [] has joined #linode
13:50<Yaakov>HoopyCat: You can also get keys from a different site, but frankly, I would just pick the lock and leave it open.
13:50<chuck>grr, my host doesn't have any extras left
13:50<chuck>how do I figure out how much memory a process is using?
13:50<tjfontaine>unscientifically, top
13:50<tjfontaine>or ps
13:51-!-rogi [] has joined #linode
13:51<tjfontaine>top and shift-m are usually helpful in some regard
13:51<HoopyCat>Yaakov: i believe it has been already picked
13:51<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Well, picked pretty hard from the look of it.
13:51<chuck>do I just take that %MEM and multiply it with my total memory?
13:51<HoopyCat>Yaakov: at least, it looks like someone made an attempt to using a screwdriver; i've put it back in the pile as it's not assisting with my mission right now
13:52<tjfontaine>chuck: no, you look at virt/res/shr
13:52-!-FoxTrot [~FoxTrot@] has joined #linode
13:52<chuck>oh, in top, I see
13:52<chuck>what's the difference between RES and SHR?
13:53<FoxTrot>hola. anyone know a good but free control panel so i can have customers and such for webhosting? i am currently useing kloxo (aka lxadmin) but there are some major security problems with it.
13:54<fapestniegd>pmap -d <pid>
13:55<HoopyCat>is there any reason to pick RSS vs. ATOM when subscribing to a feed?
13:55<@irgeek>Reader support?
13:55<chuck>tjfontaine: are the units in top MiB?
13:56<chuck>oh i see
13:56<tjfontaine>chuck: depends
13:56<HoopyCat>irgeek: mine supports both, alas :-)
13:56<@irgeek>FoxTrot: I don't use panels, but maybe virtualmin? I'm not sure if that has a customer-facing interface though.
13:56<tjfontaine>28934 root 20 0 41508 30m 1264 S 0 5.8 6:25.95 spamserver
13:56<tjfontaine>generally k I believe
13:56<chuck>in RES, though :P
13:57<tjfontaine>you notice my res has an m beside it
13:57<tjfontaine>but you can probably convince top to display it anyway you like
13:58<chuck>so one php-cgi process takes up 45-60 MB of ram... .-.
13:58<FoxTrot>humm, i will look into it irgeek, ty
13:58-!-kth5 [] has joined #linode
13:58<tjfontaine>23726 www-data 20 0 30844 15m 4956 S 0 4.5 5:56.47 php-cgi
13:58<tjfontaine>it's not un heard of, no
13:58<FoxTrot>its a shame about kloxo though. its a really nice panel :(
13:58-!-litwol|mac [~litwol|ma@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:59-!-litwol|mac [~litwol|ma@] has joined #linode
13:59<SelfishMan>kloxo was crap
13:59<FoxTrot>well its nice if it didnt have all the security problems.
14:00<HoopyCat>mwalling: "Slack 2.3 96-04-16 Disk A3"
14:00<mwalling>frame that shit
14:00<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: are you on a spring cleaning deadline?
14:00*mwalling goes back to trolling on internal ircd
14:00<HoopyCat>tjfontaine: no, i'm trying to find a !@#$ing amplifier
14:01<HoopyCat>i don't think it's in this box, but, well, i might as well check.
14:01<chuck>mwalling: HP uses irc internally?
14:02<HoopyCat>i found a photo of my desk, circa 1994, but we'll keep digging.
14:02<mwalling>chuck: idk
14:02<tjfontaine>lots of hosts connected to oftc
14:02<chuck>you don't... how?
14:02-!-Kassah [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:02<tjfontaine>chuck: he works for ge
14:02*mwalling slaps tj
14:03<SelfishMan>chuck: he makes lightbulbs
14:03<tjfontaine>lots of them
14:03<tjfontaine>he stamps a number on the box
14:03<chuck>mwalling: have you ever seen 30 rock?
14:03<scott>win win
14:03<mwalling>chuck: no, whats 30 rock?
14:03<brad>Hey, is there a tutorial for upgrading the kernal in Ubuntu the Linode way? Seems mine is too old for iotop
14:03-!-FoxTrot [~FoxTrot@] has quit [Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 3.0 (March '08)]
14:04<SelfishMan>brad: you do that from the linode control panel
14:04<scott>brad: select a new one in the linode control panel
14:04<SelfishMan>some of the newer kernels support that
14:04<brad>scott: Thanks! I didn't realize that it would be *that* easy...
14:04<scott>pfft.. this is linode...
14:04<HoopyCat>mwalling: disk N1 is a recycled AOL floppy
14:04<chuck>My spawn-fcgi binary spontaniously dissapeared
14:05<brad>It's true
14:05<brad>Any advice on which to pick?
14:05<HoopyCat>Linux framboise 2.6.29-linode18 #1 SMP Wed Apr 1 20:22:21 EDT 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
14:05<HoopyCat>^--- that one :-)
14:06-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:06-!-kth5 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:06<brad>Haha, fair call. Any reason 2.6.18 is labeled as 'Latest 2.6' when it's really not?
14:07-!-mawolf [] has quit [Quit: mawolf]
14:07<SelfishMan>brad: Read that as "Latest (approved) 2.6"
14:07<SelfishMan>While the rest aren't really unstable, "Latest 2.6" is considered to be the most recent truly stable
14:07<SelfishMan>sometimes odd xen bugs appear
14:07<HoopyCat>brad: about that time, xen support moved from a patchset to mainstream support in the kernel, using a different interface method
14:08<HoopyCat>brad: it's... still got a couple kinks (namely, keep an eye on your clock, and if it starts drifting, install and use ntpd)
14:08<brad>Hmm, OK.
14:08<SelfishMan>I drifted urmom last night
14:09<brad>Did you blow your rubber?
14:09<brad>So what would be the latest that's stable but supports i/o accounting? Should I just go for 2.6.29?
14:10<SelfishMan>go for the newest listed
14:10<HoopyCat>i'm running -linode18 and it's been fine so far
14:10<brad>Sweet, thanks for the advice
14:13<@irgeek>The newer ones have a problem with the clock drifting. If you run ntpd your time should stay correct enough.
14:13<HoopyCat>"correct enough", pfft
14:14<SelfishMan>HoopyCat isn't happy unless he has sub-picosecond accuracy
14:15<HoopyCat>you'd think this pile of floppies with slackware would be the most difficult old media to read, but... no, turns out the QIC-02 tapes are a little legacy
14:15<nacht>we found 8 inch floppies in our lab yesterday
14:17-!-samuel [~samuel@] has joined #linode
14:18<Popper>I am using cp * -Rf what is the flag to have it NOT ask me if I want to overwrite a file?
14:19<eaffa>I'm running php and JSON/AJAX chat thing on my server and it's wildly inefficient. I know that's what is causing it, I just dont' know why. Is there a way to monitor what exactly is using all the cpu? Further down than just the processes..
14:19<mwalling>Popper: look for those flags in the man page
14:19<Popper>i did
14:19<mwalling>whats -R mean?
14:19<mwalling>and what does -f mean?
14:19<dajhorn>Popper: You may need to run `unalias cp` on some systems.
14:19<Popper>even if its there
14:19<r3z>Popper, you probably have an alias set up.
14:19<Popper>remove and then copy
14:19<r3z>most likely your alias is cp -i
14:20<Popper>so doign the unalias cp will not have the -i auto flagged?
14:20<r3z>Will not ask you before overwriting files.
14:20<mwalling>sorry, i misread the question
14:20*mwalling goes back to trolling
14:20<r3z>Popper, man cp
14:20<Popper>I did
14:21<Popper>thats why I didnt get it
14:21-!-eaffa is now known as innociv
14:21<Popper>unalias cp fixed it, thanks :D
14:21<Popper>guess I should have just moved it...
14:27-!-dzjepp [] has joined #linode
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14:37<innociv>Anyone know how to figure out what exact is causing mysql to use insane amount of cpu? It seems every time someone sends a message in a chat thing I'm using i see 30-300% CPU on mysql in htop.
14:38<HoopyCat>one or more crappy queries and/or unprudent indexing
14:38-!-r3z [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:39<tjfontaine>unprudent eh :)
14:39<HoopyCat>wouldn't be prudent... at this juncture...
14:39<tjfontaine>mwalling isn't old enough to get the reference
14:40*mwalling books plane tickets to alliance ohio
14:41-!-daMaestro|isBack [] has joined #linode
14:42<HoopyCat>mwalling: back in the day, we had a president by the name of George Bush... no, no, his dad; that's why the one you WERE PROBABLY STILL IN JUNIOR HIGH FOR THE INAUGURATION OF had "W." as his middle initial... well, anyway...
14:43-!-mcinerney- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:43<mwalling>HoopyCat: rochester is a hell of a lot closer then allaince
14:43*mwalling looks up Cat, Hoopy in the rochester phonebook
14:44<HoopyCat>mwalling: i know, but it's in-state, so the flights are more expensive
14:44<mwalling>throughway is cheap
14:44<nacht>this is the internet
14:44<HoopyCat>i'm done for . . .
14:44<nacht>very few jokes are ungettable
14:45<HoopyCat>for example
14:46<JshWright>mwalling, stop by and say hi on your way out
14:46<mwalling>JshWright: will do
14:46<mwalling>JshWright: you go to chiefshow?
14:47<JshWright>nope, a couple guys went, but I had a scheduling conflict
14:48<mwalling>i'm still pissed from when i went to lake goerge, and they bussed me back to saratoga county training scenter
14:48<mwalling> my district didnt pay $ to send me to my own training center to demo tics
14:48-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:49-!-nybble [~nybble@] has joined #linode
14:49<JshWright>you guys have a TIC?
14:49<mwalling>old department had 5
14:49<mwalling>new has 1
14:50<JshWright>We have 4.5
14:50<JshWright>4 functional, and one for parts
14:50<JshWright>probably 4.3 by now...
14:50<mwalling>both departments have that
14:51<mwalling>actually, old department might have more by now, they were talking about fitting the ETAs
14:51<mwalling>the FAST/rescue truck has 3, each engine has 1 each
14:51<JshWright>3 on one truck?
14:51<mwalling>they have a $1.2mil/yr budget
14:52<JshWright>that seems a little excessive...
14:52<JshWright>A backup for the backup?
14:52<mwalling>they are the dedicated FAST resource for 2 zones
14:52-!-mcinerney [] has joined #linode
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14:52<mwalling>they do fast, and they just bought a motor home and converted it into a "rehab vehicle"
14:54<JshWright>We converted an old school bus for that purpose
14:57-!-nybble [~nybble@] has quit [Quit: nybble]
14:59-!-Peter0 [] has joined #linode
14:59<JshWright>hi there
15:00<Peter0>I'm setting up a new Wordpress server what's the ideal memory?
15:00<Peter0>might have some Rails apps too
15:00<HoopyCat>try a 360; if it doesn't work out, the upgrade is relatively quick and painless
15:01<HoopyCat>there's a number of optimizations one can try too (disabling innodb if you use mysql, various adjustments to keep apache from imploding, even trying something like lighttpd or nginx instead of apache...)
15:06<tjfontaine>if the 360 with http+mysql doesn't work out, I suggest instead of a 540 two 360s
15:06<tjfontaine>one for mysql and one for http
15:20-!-samuel_ [~samuel@] has joined #linode
15:20-!-samuel [~samuel@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:20*HoopyCat goes down the death march towards libnet-twitter-perl_3.01000
15:21-!-innociv [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:21<straterra>I haz magicjack
15:21<Peter0>ah nice great ideas I was thinking in going with nginx :)
15:21<straterra>I CAN CALL ALL OF THE US FOR FREE!
15:21<Peter0>tks guys..
15:22<nacht>all i want to do is be able to text other countries for free
15:22-!-daMaestro|isBack is now known as daMaestro
15:22<JshWright>Isn't that called "e-mail"?
15:22<nacht>i cant email with my 3-yr-old phone
15:23<Peter0>upgrade is easy and fast right
15:23<nacht>and expensive
15:23<JshWright>you can't send a text to an e-mail address?
15:23<nacht>i dunno
15:23<nacht>and thats not what i wanna do anyway
15:24<straterra>you can
15:24<nacht>send a text from one phone to another phone
15:24<straterra>you use could aim or something
15:24<nacht>AIM doesnt work on my phone :\
15:24<nacht>neither does msn or yahoo
15:24-!-samuel_ [~samuel@] has quit []
15:24<nacht>i cant even log on to
15:25<nacht>it gives me a blank page
15:25<straterra>Then it sounds like you need a new phone or a new carrier
15:25<nacht>i do need a new phone
15:25<nacht>but im poor
15:25<nacht>and can live with it
15:25<straterra>Then steal one
15:25<nacht>didnt think of that
15:30<nacht>why cant the From header on emails just have the email address
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15:40<randallman>Just picked me up a spare quad core AMD workstation with a quaddro FX 570 and 5gb of ram :)
15:40<TM>evening ladies
15:40<randallman>no more winders laptop for my workstation :)
15:40<randallman>(Here @ work)
15:40-!-dajhorn [~chatzilla@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:42<TM>whats the turnaround time if your linode hardware (physical) had to go nuclear?
15:43<phennessy>5gb ram?
15:43<phennessy>why not 4 or 8?
15:46-!-oruwork [] has joined #linode
15:46<oruwork>can someone evaluate this please
15:47<Peng_>oruwork: It says you should pick a specific awk package and install it.
15:48<oruwork>Peng-> not sure which package to install
15:48<oruwork>it gives me 3 choices
15:54<Peng_>oruwork: Whichever one you want!
15:54<Peng_>oruwork: It appears that I have mawk installed, FWIW.
15:54<Peng_>oruwork: Research them. Pick one.
15:54-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.53=-]
15:56<oruwork>mwalling how can i get to the buttom of the man page really quickly ?
15:56<straterra>Hold down the d key :P (don't do it)
15:56<mwalling>straterra: less doesnt use d
15:57<straterra>Oh, I thought it was vim
15:57<straterra>I just saw the g
15:57<straterra>Carry on
15:57-!-chris is now known as chrisa
15:57<nacht>yer mom doesnt use d
15:57<straterra>I wish your mom would have
15:57-!-Dreamr_3 [] has joined #linode
15:57<TM>dont work in man
15:58<Peng_>WFM in less, which is used by man (for me).
15:58<TM>i tried it. nadda.
16:00<mwalling>TM: whats your default pager?
16:03-!-mcinerney- [] has joined #linode
16:06<randallman>Pat, good question
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16:07-!-straterra [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:07-!-TM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:08-!-straterra_ [] has joined #linode
16:08<straterra_>That was useless
16:08<mwalling>what dc are you in?
16:08<randallman>5GB is what the box had :)
16:08<linbot>mwalling: timed out
16:08<mwalling>straterra_: what host
16:08<linbot>mwalling: timed out
16:09<phennessy>randallman: i don't think i've seen a computer with 6GB ram
16:09<straterra_>I have
16:09<phennessy>well, maybe a vm.. but that doesn't count
16:09-!-mcinerney [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:09<linbot>mwalling: [mtr] 2 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 0.3ms
16:09<phennessy>no, no vms
16:09<JshWright>6GB is fairly common in triple-channel setups..
16:10-!-n0nek [] has joined #linode
16:10<linbot>mwalling: [mtr] 14 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 32.1ms
16:10<phennessy>all of our workstations here are 1GB, 2GB, 4GB and our servers are either 16GB or 32GB
16:10<mwalling>straterra_: your node's down, but the tubes are clear back to you
16:10<randallman>Jsh, not sure what the DIMM architecture is on this box
16:10<randallman>if its DDR2 or 3
16:11<straterra_>lish is unresponsive
16:11<randallman>model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 2378
16:11<HoopyCat>rtucker@framboise:~/perldebs$ apt-cache search test-moar
16:11*HoopyCat sighs.
16:11<JshWright>DDR3 doesn't necessarily == tribple channel
16:11<randallman>JshWright :) I'm not a h/w buff really
16:11<randallman>I just use the stuff :)
16:11<straterra_>I wonder if I can stab an op to take a look for me
16:11-!-crzyboi [] has joined #linode
16:12*tjfontaine stabs straterra_
16:13<straterra_>irgeek: you alive?
16:14-!-dzjepp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:14<straterra_>Or maybe caker..
16:14<straterra_>I'd even take pparadis :P
16:15<tjfontaine>here take my pparadis, *please*
16:15<straterra_>I'm guessing the kernel just shit all over itself, as my CPU usage is through the roof..but disk/network graphs show nothing
16:15<tjfontaine>itym OOMd
16:15<straterra_>Not impossible
16:16<tjfontaine>itym improbable
16:16<straterra_>But I have a fair chunk of memory
16:16<straterra_>Wouldn't the console show something if the kernel OOM'ed?
16:17-!-mario_ [] has joined #linode
16:19-!-TM [] has joined #linode
16:19<straterra_> VPN just connected
16:20<HoopyCat>dpkg-deb: building package `libnet-twitter-perl' in `../libnet-twitter-perl_3.01000-1_all.deb'.
16:20<HoopyCat>thank the god almighties
16:21<@mikegrb>you are welcome, my son
16:21-!-straterra [] has joined #linode
16:21<straterra_>My linode didn't OOM
16:22<straterra_>It's still up
16:22<straterra_>I'm guessing...something something newark network..or that host?
16:22<oruwork>Specify the location of <apachehome>/bin/httpd in your system (For example /etc/httpd/bin)
16:22<straterra_>Or my system
16:22<oruwork>what should i enter
16:22<straterra_>the load is through the roof
16:22<oruwork>i'm using ubuntu 8.10 server
16:22<straterra_> 16:21:50 up 138 days, 3:56, 4 users, load average: 45.38, 61.62, 50.29
16:22<HoopyCat>mikegrb: libb-hooks-endofscope-perl_0.08-1_all.deb libmoose-perl_0.81-1_all.deb libvariable-magic-perl_0.35-1_i386.deb libnamespace-clean-perl_0.11-1_all.deb libclass-mop-perl_0.86-1_i386.deb libdevel-globaldestruction-perl_0.02-1_i386.deb libnamespace-autoclean-perl_0.08-1_all.deb libmoosex-traits-perl_0.05-1_all.deb libwww-perl_5.827-1_all.deb libnet-twitter-perl_3.01000-1_all.deb
16:23<straterra_>load average: 77.10, 67.24, 53.02
16:23<straterra_>Yet..I see nothing in top
16:24<straterra_>load average: 90.12, 72.53, 55.65
16:24<HoopyCat>now how do i do that magic thing whereby i can use a new Net::Twitter without restarting irssi...
16:24<straterra_>My swap is full
16:24<HoopyCat>straterra_: pastebin: vmstat 1 5
16:24-!-mario [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:24<HoopyCat>straterra_: or stop using so much memory
16:24<tjfontaine>straterra_: welcome to OOM world
16:24<straterra_>That could be a problem
16:24<straterra_>I have high memory usage :/
16:24<tjfontaine>don't you have a 2880?
16:24<straterra_>As long as it didn't OOM anything important :P
16:25<straterra_>I wish I had my 2880 back
16:25<@mikegrb>HoopyCat: yes that is why you need
16:25<@mikegrb>HoopyCat: then, cpan is your package manager
16:25<straterra_>I'll kill off snort
16:25<straterra_>That'll help
16:26<tjfontaine>mikegrb: you just made me twitch
16:26<HoopyCat>mikegrb: well, that's one way to do it
16:26<@mikegrb>tjfontaine: with ecstasy
16:26-!-rogi_ [] has joined #linode
16:26<phennessy>HoopyCat: if you used tircd, you wouldn't need to restart irssi
16:27<HoopyCat>"In Soviet Russia, a beowulf cluster of these imagine you!"
16:27<HoopyCat>mikegrb: ecstasy
16:27<@mikegrb>HoopyCat: you would know
16:27<@mikegrb>er, how would you know
16:27-!-rchargoy [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:28<straterra_>it'd be awesome to find out why this suddenly happened
16:28*HoopyCat hugs mikegrb
16:28<HoopyCat>straterra_: pastebin: ps auxwww
16:30<straterra_>I have a sneaky suspision its apache
16:30-!-HoopyCat [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:30-!-HoopyCat [] has joined #linode
16:31<straterra_>HoopyCat: You get that?
16:31-!-silverblade [] has joined #linode
16:31<HoopyCat>"Upgrade irssi to new version on-the-fly without disconnecting from server, so other people won't even notice you quit from IRC."
16:31<HoopyCat>yeah, and i'm the queen of france
16:31<HoopyCat>straterra_: no.
16:33<JshWright>Um.. I noticed
16:34-!-Turl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:35<HoopyCat>straterra_: #
16:35-!-arooni-mobile [] has joined #linode
16:35<HoopyCat>root 7597 0.1 0.1 2663128 2192 pts/1 Sl+ Jun17 1:41 twgs.exe
16:35<HoopyCat>(i hate pastebins that do that)
16:35<erikh>oh snap!
16:35<erikh>someone here runs a tradewars server?!
16:35<straterra_>THAT did it?
16:35<straterra_>Are you freaking kidding me?
16:35<straterra_>HoopyCat: But.. ps aux only shows it using .1% memory
16:36<HoopyCat>straterra_: pastebin: free -m
16:36<HoopyCat>straterra_: i do apologize for my outburst that follows, but JESUS F'ING CHRIST HOW MUCH SHIT DO YOU HAVE RUNNING ON THIS THING?
16:36-!-smazurov [] has joined #linode
16:36<straterra_>A lot
16:36<straterra_>I had a lot more
16:37<straterra_>Why do you think I had a 2880?
16:37*HoopyCat replaces mouse scroll wheel bearings
16:37<straterra_>load average: 110.94, 96.58, 76.34
16:37<randallman>n i c e
16:37<randallman>That's killer ;)
16:37<erikh>heh, you're thrashing.
16:37<erikh>can you even ssh in?
16:37<straterra_>Just takes a long time
16:37<HoopyCat>straterra_: what do you have now? a 1440?
16:38<TM>u know, for a browser with such good rating, i am puzzled why FF with 4 open tabs is using 250MB RAM and Internet Explorer with 8 open tabs is barely touching 30mb
16:38<tjfontaine>TM: too many sqlite db's
16:39<erikh>TM: because it's all shared by the operating system
16:39<erikh>but yeah, firefox is a pig.
16:39<TM>well i aint putting more ram into this laptop. it must live with 3GB or go home.
16:39<nacht>did you just start IE recently?
16:40<straterra_>HoopyCat: are you sure thats it?
16:40<HoopyCat>straterra_: you've got a lot of apache going on, your mysql might have some room for trimming, named's a little porky, your windows environment there might be allocating unusual amounts of memory ('tho it looks like a reporting issue more so than a real problem -- worth investigation)
16:41<straterra_>Yeah..a lot of apache, I dunno why
16:41<straterra_>I decreased the child numbers a lot
16:41<HoopyCat>straterra_: probably because it's like "unnh, unnh, it's taking so long to run this PHP script, ugh, another request came in, must fork again"
16:41<TM>wonderful now i cant type in it.
16:41-!-straterra [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:41<TM>maybe i should get chrome, see if it can behave
16:41<straterra_>killall apache2
16:41<HoopyCat>straterra_: try killing windows and see if that helps
16:42<straterra_>killall wine :P
16:42-!-straterra [] has joined #linode
16:42<straterra_>Oh looky
16:42<straterra_>Kill wine..and its responsive
16:42-!-yopp [] has joined #linode
16:43<yopp>what happend with
16:43<HoopyCat>straterra_: pastebin: free -m
16:43<HoopyCat>yopp: the main page got redesigned a few months back; is it too green?
16:43<straterra_>Swap: 511 187 324
16:43<yopp>HoopyCat: um. page unaccesible.
16:43<straterra_>I killed snort and vncserver (which had the windows app)
16:44<HoopyCat>straterra_: i suspect you may wish to adjust your settings ;-)
16:44<yopp>But linode.comin pingable.
16:44-!-innociv [] has joined #linode
16:44<yopp>•is pingable
16:44<innociv>mysql page says "To enable the slow query log, start mysqld with the --log-slow-queries[=file_name] option. " How do i make it start with the option then?.. mysqld command sets options, when /etc/init.d/mysqld start starts it..
16:44<HoopyCat>yopp: works for me
16:44<straterra_>I'm gonna turn my swap off
16:44<yopp>HoopyCat: yep. now working.
16:44<yopp>strange :)
16:45<HoopyCat>yopp: perhaps someone spilled a beer on the server again :-)
16:45<straterra_>Mysql could be trimmed down, yeah
16:45<HoopyCat>straterra_: well that's one way to do it :-) i run with about 128mb on my OOM-prone box; linux goes a little silly in the head when it has no swap, though
16:45<rHn>hello, i'm writing a perl script, but I can't seem to find a way to delete the contents of a file
16:45<straterra_>it's using a bit of memory
16:45<rHn>any help?
16:46<TM>back to my initial question of what the turnaround time is if your hardware had to umm... swim.
16:46<straterra_>I'm just turning swap off to flush it to memory
16:46<straterra_>then ill turn it back on
16:46-!-ok [] has joined #linode
16:46<HoopyCat>straterra_: an unnecessary maneuver, but whatever floats your frank
16:46-!-bshuler [] has joined #linode
16:46-!-ph^ [~ph^] has joined #linode
16:47-!-straterra_ [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
16:47<rHn>ah, nevermind, missed understood the forum post
16:47<bshuler>Is it possible to find a trustworthy soul to install a particularly difficult application for me? I dont mind paying for the time :)
16:48<tjfontaine>which application?
16:48<bshuler>DimDim, from source, on my up to date Fedora linode.
16:48<ok>hello, I have a quick question. I 'm trying to run a java program on boon on my centos linode. To make it simple i'm just adding a startup script to /etc/rc.d/rc.local file. For some reason the script does not run (the program is not running after reboot). If I run the script manually - it runs and the program starts just fine. Does anyone have any ideas why rc.local is not working? Thank you.
16:48<HoopyCat>TM: i may have missed your question, and alas, my scrollback buffer went away when irssi did something on-the-fly without disconnecting from the server (you might not have noticed me quit from IRC...)
16:48<HoopyCat>TM: i used to swim competitively, so i may be able to help!
16:49<TM>HoopyCat: just wondering if there are backups of each virtual machine, incase your hardware went belly-up.
16:49<HoopyCat>ok: what distro are you running?
16:49<HoopyCat>thanks, tjfontaine! durp
16:49*HoopyCat will go for the easy one
16:50<tjfontaine>bshuler: may be easier to sollicit a response from the forums if you're willing to pay someone
16:50<straterra>I need to put swap usage in to magios
16:50<ok>HoopyCat: CentOS 5.2 64-bit
16:50<tjfontaine>bshuler: but it strikes me as an application you'll want to know how to navigate after the initial setup
16:50<bshuler>Thanks tjfontaine, thought I would ask here first, but yes, I will also head over to the forums.
16:50<tjfontaine>bshuler: so you should really try and do it yourself
16:50<HoopyCat>TM: nope! you can shut down your linode and clone your image in case you're about to do something silly (e.g. dist-upgrade), but even those images are on the same physical hardware
16:51-!-foca [] has quit [Quit: \]
16:51<straterra>HoopyCat: You think it was the TWGS?
16:51<straterra>Cause..That's the ONLY thing I changed last night
16:51<HoopyCat>TM: the hosts do employ mirroring, so a single hard drive fault will usually not impact anything. however, a double fault, software problem, human error, controller failure, host self-immolation, etc will still eat everything.
16:51<TM>HoopyCat: ok, was just wondering about redundancy. not data corruption - i mean like if the unthinkable happened and the Peroni fell off the top of the server rack and spilled onto the CPU - and it happened to be my vhost running on it.
16:51<HoopyCat>straterra: the evidence is rather damning.
16:51<straterra>Guess I'm not gonna run it on my linode
16:51<straterra>Or atleast not in win98 mode
16:52<HoopyCat>straterra: you might be able to tweak wine's settings to make it less... horrific
16:52<TM>HoopyCat: i assume they're monitored? Just had a nasty experience once with a hosting company who took like a week to get their server back online. I could have built half a datacenter in less time.
16:53-!-bshuler [] has quit [Quit: bshuler]
16:53<straterra>Lets try it under win2k
16:53<HoopyCat>TM: in the six years of linode, there have been two catastrophic data loss incidents... is the most recent, and contains the official statement on the incident
16:54-!-troynt [] has joined #linode
16:54-!-streety [] has joined #linode
16:54<troynt>What is the upgrade process like for Linodes, is it pretty quick?
16:54<yopp>HoopyCat: beer accidents?
16:54<tjfontaine>based on availability
16:54<straterra>caker: I want raid 10 :/
16:54<HoopyCat>TM: and yes, stuff is monitored 24x7 :-) everything gets posted to the outage forum, too:
16:54<troynt>How much potential downtime / reconfiguring am I looking at?
16:54-!-crzyboi [] has quit [Quit: crzyboi]
16:54<tjfontaine>troynt: if the upgrade is internal to dc it's really fast
16:55-!-crzyboi [] has joined #linode
16:55<Yaakov>troynt: On average it is completed 90 minutes before you request it.
16:55<TM>HoopyCat: cool thanks.
16:55<tjfontaine>troynt: otherwise it's a bit longer and based on your disk image size to go across DCs, but still linodes has big pipes
16:55<HoopyCat>troynt: officially, 'bout a minute per GB to move it to a new server... shut it down, click Migrate, boot it up, at your leisure. (usually faster than that tho)
16:55<troynt>Will I have to reconfigure any IPs or anything?
16:55<tjfontaine>not if you stay within your dc
16:56<troynt>Yea I want to stay within my datacenter
16:56-!-Dreamr_3 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:56-!-TJF [~Miranda@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:56<tjfontaine>then everything will happen lickety split (subject to availability)
16:57-!-ok [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:57<linbot>tjfontaine: Availability (540): Atlanta - 42; Dallas - 0; Fremont - 0; Newark - 40; (0.26711) urmom says hi
16:58<HoopyCat>TM: worth noting: the dallas158 incident was first noticed about 10:30am, and the first "and now it says my linode is brand new...." came at about noon, so that's probably about 1.5 hours to investigate, poke, prod, determine the worst has occured, and get folks up on a new box
16:58<straterra>I'm already back 200 megs in swap
16:58<tjfontaine>straterra: yes, my son?
16:58<TM>HoopyCat: thats good. better than our sla's with Dell :)
16:58<straterra>I have to find a way to reduce apache/mysql memory usage
16:58<TM>straterra: tjfontaine is your son??
16:58-!-nacht [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:59<Battousai>is apache necessary?
16:59<HoopyCat>TM: it's pretty good. :-)
16:59<straterra>Yes..yes it is
16:59<TM>is that like ""Daniel-son" from KK :)
16:59<tjfontaine>straterra: has some useful tips
16:59<straterra>Apache is right for me :P
16:59<tjfontaine> To prevent too much memory usage you can lower StartServers/MinSpareServers/MaxSpareServers, I generally use 1/1/3 respectively but YMMV. These may not be high enough to keep up with the demand of your site.
16:59<tjfontaine>read it damnit
16:59-!-oruwork [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:00<tjfontaine>don't make me cooter punch your eclipse
17:00<straterra>about to oom again
17:01<straterra>Apache is doing a lot of..something
17:01<innociv>anyone? :\
17:01<straterra>I wonder if I'm getting DDoS'ed
17:01<innociv>I'm sorry but i dont understand this
17:02<tjfontaine>straterra: read your access logs
17:02<innociv>mysql page says "To enable the slow query log, start mysqld with the --log-slow-queries[=file_name] option. " How do i make it start with the option then?.. mysqld command sets options, when /etc/init.d/mysqld start starts it..
17:02<TM>straterra: access logs
17:02<straterra>I am
17:02<straterra>I just..have a lot of them
17:02<erikh>innociv: look in /etc/default for a mysql file
17:02<straterra>Tail is being slow
17:02<TM>straterra: notepad :)
17:02<A-KO>What do you guys think of mod security? Should it be an essential tool? Or has anyone ever used it?
17:02<tjfontaine>there's a config option
17:03<Battousai>not essential, but it can be useful
17:03<Battousai>and would likely have to be tuned for your specific app
17:03<innociv>i thought by --log-slow-queries option it meant i ran a command.
17:03<tjfontaine># Here you can see queries with especially long duration
17:03<tjfontaine>#log_slow_queries = /var/log/mysql/mysql-slow.log
17:03<tjfontaine>#long_query_time = 2
17:03<innociv>well i was wondering why i wouldn't do that.. but this page says it this way.
17:03<tjfontaine>innociv: edit my.cnf and restart it
17:04<straterra>I think it might have been nagios
17:04<straterra>as weird as that seems
17:04<Battousai>munin doesn't DDoS me... yet
17:04<HoopyCat>straterra: if it's prodding apache on a regular basis, it can definitely cause it to snag
17:04<straterra>Oh, it does
17:04<innociv>I don't have mysql file in /etc/default :\
17:04<straterra>Multiple times
17:05<HoopyCat>innociv: the man page is biased towards doing things from the command line
17:05<straterra>nagios keeps sending me emails
17:05<straterra>and its pissing me off
17:05<randallman>it tends todo that :0
17:06<HoopyCat>straterra: /etc/init.d/nagios stop
17:06<innociv>how do i find my.cnf?
17:06<HoopyCat>see nagios stop. stop, nagios, stop.
17:06<straterra>I did stop it
17:06<innociv>it's not in /etc/default
17:06<erikh>my.cnf is probably in /etc/mysql
17:06<straterra>email queue from earlier
17:07<innociv>my.cnf is what i must edit, right?
17:11-!-troynt [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:13-!-jcn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:13<straterra>tjfontaine: that actually helped a LOT
17:14-!-gmcharlt [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:14-!-mawolf [] has joined #linode
17:14<yopp>how long reverse dns update takes?
17:16<HoopyCat>yopp: up to 24 hours, depending on various factors
17:16<mwalling>bout a day
17:16<yopp>HoopyCat: Zone TTL?
17:16<yopp>or dns cache?
17:16<yopp>or wtf?
17:17<Peng_>yopp: Linode doesn't actually run the DNS servers for all of the netblocks. Some of their upstreams are just lazy, I guess.
17:17*yopp using linode as dns zone server in main.
17:18<HoopyCat>yopp: yes, yes, and yes. some datacenters pull updates from linode, others put in NS records to direct the queries to linode's servers, etc... obviously, if linode is handling it it's faster
17:18<HoopyCat>yopp: for *forward* DNS stuff (e.g. stuff set up in DNS Manager), the zones are regenerated every 15 minutes. two different systems (fortunately)
17:19<yopp>HoopyCat: I just updated RDNS for node.
17:19<straterra>HoopyCat: I got my memory usage down to 337 mem and 180 swap \O/
17:19-!-morficus_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:19<straterra>Of course..thats with snort turned off..
17:19<yopp>Coz * looks ugly. :)
17:20<HoopyCat>yopp: allow about a day, be pleasantly surprised if it takes less than that :-)
17:20<HoopyCat>straterra: rawk
17:20<straterra>Now to turn that TWGS back on :P
17:20<HoopyCat>unrelatedly, if anyone enjoys rocket launches, NASA's launching something to the mooooooon in ~10 minutes. for teh nasa TV
17:20<straterra>I'll set it as win2k too
17:21<straterra>I still dunno why linux is swapping when it has memory free
17:22<HoopyCat>straterra: because it's faster
17:22<straterra>Putting cache in to swap?
17:22<straterra>Maybe I need a wm lighter than icewm :P
17:23<HoopyCat>straterra: you probably aren't going to be using that getty for a little while, so why not swap it out? :-)
17:23<HoopyCat>NEAT FACT: as far as resident memory usage goes, irssi is the biggest hog on my linode
17:23<straterra>Not mine :P
17:24<fuzzie>At one point, the highest hog on my linode was someone running vim on an irc log.. alas, now it seems to be back to mysql hogging it all, as usual.
17:24-!-mawolf [] has quit [Quit: mawolf]
17:24<Yaakov>HoopyCat: I'll bet its that Twitter script.
17:24<HoopyCat>Yaakov: probably
17:25<straterra>Someone should run amavis on a linode in newark :P
17:25<HoopyCat>someone should run NASA-TV on a subchannel now that we're all 100% DTV
17:25<straterra>My memory spikes hard with clamscan
17:26<straterra>At least I didn't have to reboot
17:28<innociv>is there a way to make the general log only log "database2" instead of all databases?
17:28<innociv>in mysql
17:29<mwalling>HoopyCat: ditto on irssi
17:29<mwalling>HoopyCat: i blame net::twitter
17:29-!-crzyboi [] has quit [Quit: crzyboi]
17:30<HoopyCat>-rw-r--r-- 1 rtucker rtucker 47174 2009-04-22 17:46 libnet-twitter-perl_2.12-1_all.deb
17:30<HoopyCat>-rw-r--r-- 1 rtucker rtucker 82826 2009-06-18 16:19 libnet-twitter-perl_3.01000-1_all.deb
17:30<HoopyCat>you be the judge
17:32-!-Redgore [] has quit [Quit: Peace and Protection 4.22.2]
17:32<straterra>Is there an easy way to see/purge postfix's queue?
17:33-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:35<straterra>ah, nevermind
17:38-!-lesouvage [] has joined #linode
17:41<innociv> is cpu i'm getting and it's 95% all from mysql :(
17:43<HoopyCat>innociv: well, based upon that, i can definitely see you're on Xen and not UML!
17:43<HoopyCat><--- eternal optimist
17:43<innociv>seriously now ;[ I need to fix this..
17:44-!-mario_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:44<HoopyCat>innociv: anything cool in the slow query log?
17:44<innociv>it's empty
17:45<@irgeek>Given that it's ramping with your traffic I'm inclined to think it's just the extra query load.
17:45<innociv>query time on everything has pretyt mcu hbeen 0..
17:45<HoopyCat>innociv: how much traffic are you doing?
17:45-!-lesouvage [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45<@irgeek>Pretty much zero * a lot = really a lot.
17:46-!-TM [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:46<HoopyCat>innociv: are particular things slower than they should be? how's your I/O looking?
17:46<innociv>well.. what this is coming from, is testing out this new chat. I was using flashchat, and could have about 100 people with 60% load(of 400% i guess?). With this ajaxim thing I went up to that 300% with just 15 people. Same amount of chattiness.
17:46-!-lesouage [] has joined #linode
17:46<innociv>IO is a bit higher than normal. It went up to 600k. I usually dont see it go past 300k.
17:47-!-mario [] has joined #linode
17:47<innociv>but.. it's not so much IO that it makes console lag
17:47<innociv>in iotop i'd see 4-8 mysql process 0-20k/s normally, a few 70k/s, sometimes the rare 650k/s
17:47<lesouage>I still have problems to install dahdi kernel module. Message is "/bin/sh: scripts/genksyms/genksyms: cannot execute binary file"
17:48-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
17:49<phennessy>that script will clean the directory genksyms is in and then rebuild it.. you're using a linode kernel src right?
17:49<HoopyCat>innociv: hmm... is it just using mysql for temporary storage of things to pass between instances? you might be able to get by with a memory-only table or some other mechanism that sucks less
17:49<innociv>What it does is the CPU will jump up really high all of a sudden from something, and then it'll stay that way for a while, even if no one is talking at all or anything. And I've narrowed it down to htop. I look in htop and all my other processes are very low cpu, while mysql's is insane
17:49<lesouage>The file is there and has execute settings (755) but I can't run it manually.
17:49<innociv>yes, both temporary and permanant.
17:50<innociv>Messages go to mysql for just a few seconds, then are deleted.
17:50<lesouage>Yes I have downloaded the kernel source from the linode site.
17:50<phennessy>lesouage: it was compiled under a 64bit enviroment. you need to rebuild it.
17:50<innociv>and it stores things like if they're online or not in the users table(which is about 20mb)
17:50<HoopyCat>lesouage: genksyms was compiled on a different architecture than yours; phennessy's script will fix it
17:50<phennessy>lesouage: see the script in the blog post
17:51<HoopyCat>innociv: hmm... i'd have to poke around at the source a fair bit to see more about it... might be worth checking with the devs to see if there's any suggestions
17:51<phennessy>basically, if you do a "make mrproper", it'll delete that file. but you'll need to redo the .config and recompile everything and it'll take a very very long time. so that script will just clean that one dir and rebuild it.
17:51<lesouage>phennessy: thanks, I will try it and let you know. I have tried it yesterday but then it doesn't work maybe because i had messed up the system. I started with a fresh Debian 4.0
17:52<HoopyCat>innociv: it sounds like it's just sitting there doing a lot of stuff for no good reason, in some weird attempt to reinvent a wheel
17:52<innociv>well ajaxim is open source.
17:52<innociv>what i noticed..
17:52<phennessy>i dunno, i'm using unbuntu 8.04
17:52<innociv>is if i SHOWPROCESSLIST; I see more "is_online" than anything else
17:52<phennessy>you have installed build-essential right?
17:52<innociv>i'll see 5-15 processes there every time i look, when they take less than 1 second to complete
17:52<phennessy>to get all the gcc tools and stuff
17:53<innociv>but if you want to look a thte source, i think it's like 1500-2000 lines if you exclude window.js and prototype.js which are libraries
17:53<HoopyCat>innociv: i wonder if it's in some sort of ridiculously tight loop
17:54<innociv>i think i'm getting more queries from my other chat (I have obht up at the same time, the one i've been using like i said has never used more than 60%.. out of 400%, which is very little)
17:54<lesouage>phennessy: I only have to copy and past the script into a file, give the proper settings and then execute it. That would do the trick? I have installed the packages that I use normally on an iron server. It is only dahdi that won't build.
17:54-!-streety [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:55<phennessy>in ubuntu, build-essential will install all the compilation tools for building things.
17:55<innociv>i look in general log.. and most of the queries are for flashchat, not ajaxim which is the new thing i'm trying out
17:55<phennessy>yea, you should be able to copy paste it
17:55*HoopyCat picks up linbot and throws it across the room
17:55<phennessy>you could manually edit the Makefile and make the change yourself
17:55<innociv>like 4 out of 5.
17:56<phennessy>you don't need my script
17:56<phennessy>the script just applies a diff
17:56<pygmalion>does any one know anything about dtach? and specifically what makes it different from screen?
17:58<HoopyCat>innociv: i've found three things i hate about ajaxim already; don't let me look at flashchat
17:58<innociv>flashcaht is worse
17:58<innociv>but what? :p
17:59<Peng_>I love Linode. I can run 3 "bzr check"s at once with no performance loss.
17:59<Peng_>OK, a tiny performance loss.
18:00<HoopyCat>innociv: 1) distributed as .zip which unpacks into ., 2) no support for caching, 3) is_online.php opens a fresh database connection on each run, uses magic numbers, and returns an image/gif instead of a redirect to a cachable object (ok, so that's three), and 4) the install.php uses "set up" incorrectly
18:00<innociv>no support for caching?
18:00<innociv>the is_online thing
18:01<innociv>is like..
18:01-!-q[rGeoffrey] [~chatzilla@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:01<innociv>it seems like it sorts peoples buddylists and keeps updating them serverside over and over
18:01<linbot>setup is not a verb. Please see
18:01<lesouage>phennessy: The execution starts with patching file Makefile Hunk #1 FAILED at 1174. Hunk #2 FAILED at 1194. The rest looks ok. Does this indicate a serious problem?
18:01<linbot>New news from forums: How many Linodes in General Discussion <>
18:02-!-MarkJ [~mark@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
18:02<phennessy>lesouage: yes
18:02<innociv>The buddy list, when you sign on, it should get peoples is_online status and then when someone signs on send a message to update
18:02<innociv>but it seems to keep sending queries
18:02-!-ondrej [~ondrej@] has joined #linode
18:02<HoopyCat>innociv: i suspect there's not an index on users.username either
18:02<emag>i'm in ur dikshunery, verbing ur nouns?
18:02<innociv>hoopycat, what would that effect?
18:02<phennessy>lesouage: change the line that has "clean-dirs := \$(addprefix _clean_,\$(srctree) \$(vmlinux-alldirs) Documentation)" to look like "clean-dirs := \$(addprefix _clean_,\$(srctree) \$(vmlinux-alldirs) Documentation scripts)"
18:03<innociv>I was thinking the whole buddy list nad is_online thing is the root of this problem and was going to try disabling it, but it's lots of code to stop those queries
18:03<innociv>well actually..
18:03<phennessy>minus all those backspaces in front of the $'s
18:03-!-q[rGeoffrey] [~chatzilla@] has joined #linode
18:03<innociv>amybe just editing is_online.php i can tell it to stop without touching the JS
18:03<phennessy>lesouage: which kernel are you using?
18:03<HoopyCat>innociv: changes to users.username would take slightly longer; queries against users.username would be somewhat faster
18:03<phennessy>lesouage: and where did you put it?
18:04<phennessy> /usr/src/linux ?
18:04<innociv>HoopyCat, but.. not so much faster it'd be using so much resources with only 15 people, no?
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18:04<HoopyCat>innociv: how many rows in users?
18:05<HoopyCat>innociv: how many times per second is is_online being hit?
18:05<innociv>hm i'd say 5?
18:06<innociv>Well I'd say about 0.5 times per person on it. So with 10 people on, it'd do like 5 per second.
18:06<innociv>which to me doesnt' really seem like much..
18:06<HoopyCat>innociv: i think putting an index on that column would probably help some amount
18:06-!-bai [] has joined #linode
18:07<innociv>but with this other chat running, 60 people on it, whenever I showprocesslist; I'll see a bunch of is_online on there.. say 5-15, when i rarely see queries for message delivery to either chat
18:07<linbot>New news from forums: Don't waste time searching for a good VPS, buy a Linode. in Customer Testimonials <>
18:07-!-bai [] has quit []
18:07-!-bai [] has joined #linode
18:07<innociv>and it's not like they're idling. Lots of activity
18:07-!-bai [] has quit []
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18:08<HoopyCat>innociv: it's entirely possible it's getting in over its head a bit. there's only two indexes in the entire database, according to my quick perusal of install.php
18:08<innociv>right now now one is talking or anyting and mysql is using 100% load of 400%.
18:08<innociv>now no one*
18:08<HoopyCat><--- big fan of indexes
18:08<HoopyCat>innociv: talk is cheap, maintaining state information is what's probably killing you...
18:08<innociv>is it really enough to make my cpu use so much with 5 people in this thing not talking? :p
18:09<innociv>well let me try just editing php and removing it connecting to is_online
18:10<HoopyCat>innociv: comment out the stuff in the function and replace it with return 1;
18:10<HoopyCat>innociv: that'll have it return the online.gif so people will be none the wiser
18:10<lesouage>phennessy: still the same message. The - and the plus line are now the same. Building proces of dahdi runs without any very warning messages.
18:10<innociv>it's on a seperate url with people just told to come to it to test, so don't need hte later
18:11<HoopyCat>innociv: ah, ok. mv is_online.php is_online.php.is_offline ;-)
18:12<innociv>client wise, this chat is pretty great. The ui is nice, it's fast, nice features. But.. theres some stuff, yeah :p
18:12<innociv>i really want to get this working smooth on the server end so i can improve hte client more
18:13<phennessy>lesouage: what directory is the kernel source in?
18:13<phennessy>lesouage: and what version?
18:15<HoopyCat>innociv: i'd personally memcached the daylights out of this thing, myself... also, some mechanism to maintain persistent DB connections instead of repeatedly connecting/disconnecting might be cool
18:15<innociv>yeahhhh the later i was thinking too, but i'm not very smart :(( I've done some neat things so far though.
18:16<innociv>I'm okay at adding new things and adjusting some others. But fixing bugs, and the "engine" itself? x_x Above me quite a bit. At least I got to the same is_online conclusion as you
18:16<innociv>and did a return 1 to see how it works now
18:16<lesouage>phennessy: it is in /usr/src/ there is a symlink to this directory in /usr/src/ named linux.
18:16<phennessy>lesouage: i'd love to help you. but my time is limited. i have to leave in fifteen minutes.
18:17<phennessy>ok, i'm going to download that kernel and fix the Makefile and put it somewhere for you to download.
18:18<HoopyCat>innociv: also comment out the parts where it connects/disconnects from the database... i forgot, that's outside the function
18:19<lesouage>Really thanks a lot.
18:19<innociv>and // $isonline = is_online($_GET['user']); too, just make it return 1, yeah i just noticed
18:19-!-J-Node [] has joined #linode
18:20<innociv>i forget what the proper string would be :\ $isonline = is_online("1");?
18:21<HoopyCat>innociv: $isonline = 1;
18:22<innociv>... odd it's still working correctly
18:22<SelfishMan>$isonline = sqrt(pi);
18:22<innociv>i see an online person as online, and others offline.
18:22<HoopyCat>innociv: pastebin it?
18:23<phennessy>lesouage: copy to /usr/src/linux/Makefile
18:24<phennessy>lesouage: then run these commands..
18:24<phennessy>then try building dahdi
18:25<HoopyCat>innociv: comment out the 42nd line too, just to be sure (maybe it's breaking or something)
18:25<innociv>it shoudln't be connecting at all though :x
18:26-!-Oli`` [~oli@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:26<HoopyCat>innociv: if you hit it manually with your web browser, is it showing online vs. offline correctly? i wonder if there's another part that you're seeing the correct online/offline stuff from...
18:26<lesouage>I still ahve a segmentation fault :-(
18:26<HoopyCat>innociv: (also, it (probably) isn't connecting; if it's not connected, it may well throw an error when you try to disconnect. i should hope so at least)
18:26<phennessy>lesouage: where?
18:27<innociv>if i go to that php manuall, it shows a green gif
18:27<phennessy>did those make commands build everything?
18:28<innociv>anyways here is an example of me doing show processlist; a lot:
18:28<lesouage>when loading dahdi with modprobe -f dahdi_dummy . Without the -f parameter I got the message "WARNING: Error inserting dahdi (/lib/modules/ Invalid module format"
18:28<HoopyCat>innociv: that's all flashchat stuff...
18:28<innociv>rph_chat = flashchat. ajaxim2=this thing i'm having problems with. Despite much fewer users on it, way more queries.
18:28<innociv>db ajaxim2 = ajaxim, this hting
18:28<innociv>rph_chat is flashchat.. only 1 query there for it
18:28<phennessy>lesouage: well. i think that's related to the version of gcc in debian.
18:29<phennessy>you need a newer version
18:29<phennessy>grep gcc /var/log/dmesg
18:29<HoopyCat>innociv: the table names are all flashchat_*... typo in config.php? :-)
18:29<innociv>it's so i can more easily share them later
18:29<innociv>i just named htem that, because i merged flashchat user database to keep same users
18:30<innociv>it makes no difference.
18:30<innociv>ajaxim has a prefix config
18:30<HoopyCat>innociv: fair 'nuf. none of those queries look like the is_online.php :-)
18:30<phennessy>lesouage: i think linode used ubuntu 8.04 to build the kernel. that comes with "gcc version 4.2.4 (Ubuntu 4.2.4-1ubuntu3)"
18:30<HoopyCat>innociv: err, none of those queries look like the is_online.php query... they appear to be from somewhere else
18:30<lesouage>phennessy: this is the output "Linux version ( (gcc version 4.2.4 (Ubuntu 4.2.4-1ubuntu3)) #1 SMP Mon Jan 12 09:50:18 EST 2009"
18:30<innociv>ohhh! is_online.php... is just for to put on websites to show someone is online there -_-
18:30<phennessy>lesouage: run "gcc -v"
18:30<innociv>gah let me.. notepad++ search that query and hope i can find it
18:31<innociv>and it wont break everything ;[
18:31<phennessy>that's causing your invalid format
18:31<lesouage>phennessy: gcc version 4.1.2 20061115 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-21)
18:31<HoopyCat>innociv: ./ajax_im.php:784: $query = mysql_query('SELECT username, is_online FROM ' . SQL_PREFIX . 'users WHERE username IN(\'' . $users_str . '\') AND is_online > 0 ORDER BY username ASC');
18:31<innociv>aye i was gunna look there :p
18:33<HoopyCat>innociv: i'd try running a few queries like that one manually to get a feel for it... some indexes may indeed help out there too
18:33<phennessy>lesouage: i think you need that dahdi module built on a ubuntu system
18:33<innociv>I don't really know what indexes is :(
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18:34<lesouage>phennessy: isn't build-essenetials not suppose to install the proper versions?
18:34<phennessy>but i need to run.. boot another config profile to compile this stuff and then copy it over
18:34<phennessy>lesouage: linode uses ubuntu. you used debian. they both have different versions of gcc. that is causing compatibility issues.
18:35<HoopyCat>innociv: it's like the card catalog(*) at the library... if you want to find a book called "MySQL In A Nutshell", you can either go book-by-book and say "ok, does 'The Worst Case Scenario Survival Handbook' equal 'MySQL In A Nutshell'? No? OK, next book..."
18:35<phennessy>i'd either rebuild the box with ubuntu or rent a second linode for a day to compile the module with the right version.
18:35<HoopyCat>innociv: OR you can maintain something that says "MySQL In A Nutshell" is in bookshelf 23, shelf 2, near the middle
18:35<lesouage>phennessy: so the easiest way to get my Asterisk up and running is adding an ubuntu image? It is more a habit then a believe that I use Debian so I can switch.
18:35<phennessy>linode is less than $1 per day.. so it's not a big deal
18:35<innociv>ah I see. So it's taking a long time to look through the users and find their is_online =?
18:36<HoopyCat>(*) just humor me here, i realize they're all computerized these days and not stored on index cards ;-)
18:36<phennessy>i'd recommend ubuntu 8.04lts
18:36<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: bookshelf 23? Where does that fall in the dewey decimal syste?
18:36<innociv>i remember htose things though he
18:36-!-smazurov [] has quit [Quit: smazurov]
18:36*SelfishMan just converted five libraries in the state to koha from card catalogs
18:37<phennessy>lesouage: i'm running late, got to go. good luck!
18:37<lesouage>phennessy: I don't have the tendency to choose the hard way if there is an easy one. I go for ubuntu 8.04lts :-)
18:37<innociv>bahh i was hoping i could comment out the whole block for buddylist, but that kills it XD
18:37<randallman>Wow ppl still used paper card catalogs? :P
18:37<lesouage>phennessy: thanks for the help!
18:37<phennessy>no problem
18:37*randallman converted the library at his private Jr. High in.... 1985
18:37<HoopyCat>innociv: in theory, yes. of course, if the cost of maintaining the index is more than the cost of searching for things manually, it sucks.
18:37<randallman>sup dog
18:37<randallman>gettin' out?
18:37-!-lesouage [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:37<phennessy>hi, going to the gym
18:37<randallman>Peace :)
18:37*jeff chuckles at the library catalog discussion
18:38<innociv>hoopy, does the number of fields in a table matter? Like would it help to have an isOnline table to search through instead of something containing tons of other information? Or does just hte number of rows matter?
18:38<SelfishMan>!urmo still uses a card catalog
18:38<HoopyCat>innociv: usually just the number of rows
18:38<SelfishMan>damn this keyboard
18:38<HoopyCat>anyway, speaking of running late, i have to go pick up some farm-fresh produce!
18:39<SelfishMan>The number of columns can matter substantially with certain table types
18:39<SelfishMan>MyISAM doesn't care as much unless the indexes are huge but innodb doesn't do well with wide tables
18:39<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: i'm simplying things a bit; i'm also assuming the table isn't particularly wide
18:39<innociv>if($row['is_online'] == 100) <- why does this say == 100 when is online is 0/1/2?
18:40<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: $table_users = 'CREATE TABLE `'.SQL_PREFIX.'users` ( `username` varchar(32), `password` varchar(32), `email` text, `is_online` int(11) default \'0\', `last_ping` text, `last_ip` varchar(15), `banned` tinyint(1) default \'0\', `admin` tinyint(1) default \'0\', `buddyicon` varchar(4) NOT NULL default \'none\', `profile` text, `id` bigint(20) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment, UNIQUE KEY `id` (`id`), UNIQUE `username` (`username`)
18:40<jeff>HoopyCat: and no, they're not ALL automated. there are some libraries that do it on paper still. no barcodes, even. :)
18:40<SelfishMan>last_ip is better stored as an int
18:40-!-hpj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40<HoopyCat>innociv: it looks like it uses 1 for online, 2 for away, and 0, 50, or 100 for offline
18:41<SelfishMan>and since there isn't an index for is_online it will make it damn slow with enough users
18:41<innociv>i dont get why it'd have 50 or 100 for offline too..
18:41<innociv>never seen those
18:41<innociv>but yeah 0 is offline, 1 online, 2 away.
18:41<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: there's 4500 rows in there
18:41<SelfishMan>yeah, create an index for is_online
18:42-!-DrZipie_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:42<SelfishMan>unless it is "select * from users where is_online=1;"
18:42<HoopyCat>tinyint(1)? boole is spinning in his grave
18:42<SelfishMan>and the table is an innodb table
18:42<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: $query = mysql_query('SELECT username, is_online FROM ' . SQL_PREFIX . 'users WHERE username IN(\'' . $users_str . '\') AND is_online > 0 ORDER BY username ASC');
18:43<innociv>i'd expect to have like 20000 by the end of the year, at least, too.
18:43<SelfishMan>yep...index it
18:43<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: would is_online > 0 be better as is_online != 0?
18:43<SelfishMan>maybe not
18:44<SelfishMan>oh, wait, it checks the username then the is_online status so an index won't help
18:44<innociv>yeah i'm just trying to figure out how to disable it to see if it's the cause of my problem now
18:44<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: I fail to see why is_online is anthing except 0/1
18:44<innociv>2 is away
18:44<innociv>i dont know why there is a 50 and 100
18:44-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:45<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: online is 1, away is 2, offline is 0, really offline is 50, or really terribly offline is 100
18:45<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: I stand by what I said
18:46<HoopyCat>aight, i gotta go get this produce so i can come home and drink away my memory of this thing
18:46<SelfishMan>using is_online > 0 should work fine
18:46<SelfishMan>I don't think it wil matter with performance though
18:46<innociv>well felishman, looking at processlist;, is_online is the majority of my queries, and my server is getting insane cpu load using this thing
18:47<innociv>so i'm trying to disable the whole querying is_online for the moment to find out if it is my problem
18:47<innociv>if it is my problem, then I can try and change how it works ot fix it
18:47-!-daMaestro [] has joined #linode
18:47<innociv>right now it seems to constantly ping
18:47<SelfishMan>is that select statement that hoopycat posted the is_online routing?
18:47-!-mattikus [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:47<SelfishMan>using the IN clause is what is killing you
18:48<innociv> the last bit I dont think is part of it
18:48<innociv>but might be
18:48<SelfishMan>I guess I don't understand why the IN clause is there
18:48<innociv>I dunno :( I know some php. but that's sucha confusing block of code there
18:49<innociv>it does have a comment at least lmao
18:49<HoopyCat>nearest comment is // we're going to do this backwards
18:49<HoopyCat>i wouldn't consider that reassuring
18:49<SelfishMan>You would actually be better off doing WHERE (username = user1 OR username = user2...) and is_online > 0
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18:51<innociv>haha i know.. :(
18:51<SelfishMan>even a select loop would be better
18:51<SelfishMan>the IN clause *is* what is killing your performance
18:51<innociv>selfish, probably, but do you know how i can just disable it's querying completely? Make it always return that they are online, 1, for example? I tried commenting it out and that just broke hte chat.
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18:53<SelfishMan>select 'bob' as username, 1 as is_online;
18:53<SelfishMan>it's a hacky way to test it quick
18:53<SelfishMan>damn they use a lot of IN statements
18:54<innociv>you mean replacing $query = with that?
18:54<erikh>good lord php is nasty
18:54-!-smazurov [] has joined #linode
18:54<Battousai>php is great
18:54-!-Eudoxus [] has joined #linode
18:54<innociv>php is supposed to be easy ^^
18:54<Battousai>with no other language can you take a dump on a keyboard and have it spit out html
18:54<erikh>Battousai: hahaha.
18:54<Eudoxus>How much RAM do you think a running Postfix MTA will consume? Let's say for 5 different domains and, say, 20 email addresses.
18:54<Eudoxus>Just a rough estimate.
18:54<SelfishMan>erikh: As much as I hate PHP, I have to say this is just bad coding
18:55<Eudoxus>And receiving a fair amount of email. Using IMAP.
18:55<SelfishMan>Eudoxus: depends on how much mail per day but it won't use much
18:55<mwalling>postfix doesnt speak imap
18:55<SelfishMan>Also, Postfix doesn't do IMAP or POP3, that's up to dovecot/courier
18:55<mwalling>it didnt yesterday, it doesnt today.
18:55<Peng_>Eudoxus: What uses RAM is the spam and antivirus stuff.
18:55<innociv>Help me make it better then it wont' be bad coding. ^^ Or if you could at least tell me how to disable it's quering and just always return 1, I could see if it is the cause of my problem
18:55<erikh>doesn't php have some database abstraction layer these days which is supposed to make this a million times easier? ADO or something?
18:56<Eudoxus>So a maximum of 10 megs is a good estimate?
18:56<Eudoxus>for a decent mail server
18:56<SelfishMan>That's on a system handling about 50K messages per day
18:57<SelfishMan>The same one I'm running irssi on actually
18:57<SelfishMan>erikh: People still write code that requires REGISTER_GLOBALS to be on
18:57<Eudoxus>what does that log tell you
18:57<erikh>SelfishMan: good point.
18:57<Eudoxus>i'm not sure what column is what
18:57<Eudoxus>and what scale
18:58<SelfishMan>Eudoxus: It's the output of `ps aux | grep postfix`
18:59<erikh>I wouldn't worry about postfix, or even dovecot. I'd worry about ldap or mysql or whatever you end up plugging it into if it's not plaintext files
19:00<erikh>saslauthd can also be a pig IIRC.
19:00<Eudoxus>hmm ok
19:00<SelfishMan>people still run saslauthd?
19:01<erikh>you pretty much have to if you authenticate with ldap
19:01<SelfishMan>on ubuntu running postfix and dovecot there is no need for saslauthd
19:01<erikh>at least, running courier I had to
19:01<SelfishMan>I don't do LDAP auth though. LDAP just needs to die, much like MARC records.
19:01<Eudoxus>SelfishMan: how big a node is that on
19:01<erikh>I like LDAP in theory. in practice, OpenLDAP is a piece of shit
19:01<SelfishMan>Eudoxus: That's on a 720
19:02<SelfishMan>I have a 360 doing twice as many messages per day for a few thousand users with no problems
19:02<erikh>mail scales well
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19:02<Eudoxus>Ok. I don't receive 50k message per day. maybe 1k maximum. So I guess the 360 node should be fine for me. I shouldn't have to worry about RAM at all.
19:02<SelfishMan>In fact, I could downgrade that 360 to a 180 and still have enough room for the kiddies to swim
19:02<Eudoxus>Good to know.
19:02<erikh>if you hit anything, it's goign to be disk i/o
19:02<erikh>or if you add spamassassin
19:02<SelfishMan>Eudoxus: You won't hit any limits with 1K messages per day on a 360
19:03-!-mario [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:03<erikh>that'll kill your memory dead
19:03<SelfishMan>clamav is the single biggest killer for me
19:03<Peng_>Or antivirus.
19:03<erikh>SelfishMan: yeah, clamav is a big one too
19:03<Eudoxus>spamassassin is a mem killer?
19:03<SelfishMan>clamav 20212 0.0 18.8 151184 138948 ? Ssl 03:14 0:28 /usr/sbin/clamd
19:03<mwalling>not as much as clamav
19:03<SelfishMan>spamassassin isn't bad at all
19:03<erikh>on proc as well?
19:03<SelfishMan>it does depend what rules you add though
19:04<erikh>err, cpu
19:04<mwalling>meh, RBLs are all you need
19:04<erikh>that's all I use these days
19:04<erikh>sorbs solves my problems
19:04<erikh>and if my mail users don't like it, they can use gmail
19:06<SelfishMan>well, I'm out for a whle. I have a threesome with mikegrb and caker's moms
19:07-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:13<innociv>the heck.. ic an't even find docs on userevent()
19:20-!-brad [~brad@] has quit [Quit: Call someone, I'm obviously missing]
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19:26<pygmalion>can someone who has a few seconds verify the fact that with javascript on the arrows at the bottom right of this page go to the next page and with javascript off a scroll bar comes up?
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19:33<pygmalion>!wx KBLM
19:33<linbot>pygmalion: [metar] OBS at KBLM: 64.4F/18C, visibility 10 miles, wind 5.75 mph (altimeter: 29.84) [KBLM 182315Z AUTO 20005KT 10SM SCT008 OVC017 18/17 A2984 RMK AO1]
19:34-!-rogi_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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19:36*HoopyCat wonders how well evolution will handle an RSS feed of an entire beer list (
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19:46<innociv>SelfishMan, already i figured out how to stop it. I took out those two blocks the $query_string 's are in.
19:46<innociv>And guess what? No more high mysql cpu usage
19:46<innociv>that was the problem
19:46<innociv>thank a ton to you and HoopyCat!
19:46-!-theblackbox [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:49<HoopyCat>innociv: might want to poke at the author and say "this query is hitting the database like [bad sexist/racist/homophobic/metaphorical analogy here] on our 4500-line users table" and see what the author vomits back
19:50<innociv>I emailed him once before asking him something , 6 months ago, never got back to me
19:50<innociv>I posted on his forum how his chat was bending over my server.. but I wrote it rather nicely
19:50<innociv>It's pretty assassine how this got through. Did he never monitor his cpu? pfft
19:50<straterra>HoopyCat: I got TWGS running again..and watching memory. Seems to be doing better in win2k mode
19:50<innociv>but yeah, now i have to code a new buddy list thing
19:51<innociv>i'm thinking of just making a new little php page that lists the names, and status, and refreshes every so often :\ I dunno.. how i should do it ;(
19:51<innociv>i dont think refresh based is good, that's almost how this is
19:51<erikh>yes, one of my mysql farms is replicating again
19:51*erikh happy
19:52<innociv>when you connect, it should grab your friends list nad check if they're off or online, then when someone comes online it tell you they logged in, and when they go offline it send that they left..
19:52<HoopyCat>straterra: you're the sickest, most perverted purveyor of twisted, horrible things i've ever had the displeasure to troubleshoot a memory issue for. i didn't expect to find that when i saw the ps. :-)
19:52<straterra>HoopyCat: Oh..thats nothing
19:52<straterra>I already had killed off a few things
19:52<erikh>straterra: is your twgs open?
19:52<straterra>like a CS:S server
19:52<erikh>i mean, is it free play?
19:52<straterra>erikh: not yet.I sent in registration information
19:52<HoopyCat>innociv: i think things can be made more better without user-visible heroics
19:52<straterra>theyve accepted payment, and now i await registration info
19:52<erikh>ah, please let me know! I love playing
19:53<straterra>I can start the server now..but..whats the point if i have to remake it when i get the info
19:53<erikh>oh, I understand.
19:53<erikh>I wonder if my SWATH registration is still valid..
19:53<erikh>I had a gridding script I wrote that really pissed some other players off
19:54<straterra>HoopyCat: Do you see why I used to have a 2880?
19:54<HoopyCat>straterra: i'd almost say you might wanna consider a couple 720s
19:54<straterra>And considered larger
19:54<straterra>Yeah, I do want to get two 720's
19:54<straterra>I use that box for personal AND business
19:54<straterra>I'd like to seperate em out
19:54<straterra>and I can get 2 IP's per, right?
19:54<innociv>what do you mean, HoopyCat?
19:54<HoopyCat>straterra: yup
19:55<straterra>i might just do that
19:55<Peng_>straterra: You can get more IPs if you justify them, of course.
19:55<innociv>there is also two other major bugs with this thing, but not really any minor ones..
19:55-!-ondrej [~ondrej@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:55<straterra>That involves rebooting though :P
19:55<innociv>One, sometimes people are "ghosted" in a room or buddy list. They show as online for one person but not another, when they have left already
19:56<innociv>and you don't see a join/left message in chat which seems to be related to old messages saved in the messages table when people don't leave the chat elegantly
19:56<HoopyCat>innociv: blergh.
19:56<innociv>it seems message sending is reliable though ;(
19:56<innociv>people will appear offline, but you can still talk to them
19:57<HoopyCat>by the sheer grace of god...
19:57<innociv>And when they appear online, and aren't htere, and you try to IM them, it says they are offline fine.
19:57<innociv>Yet .. it is disabling them on buddy and chat list wrong
19:57<innociv>sometimes you won't see someone on the room list, but they are there, and online on your buddy list
19:57<innociv>But HoopyCat, there isn't anything better out there ;p
19:57<HoopyCat>innociv: IRC :-)
19:58<HoopyCat>or jabber, to be inclusive
19:58<innociv>yeah i like jabber
19:58<straterra> that what we're talking about?
19:58<innociv>but.. it's more work
19:58<innociv>ajaxim ALMOST works great! ;D
19:58<straterra>I cant view atm
19:58<straterra>I'm ircing from my cell phone
19:58<Alucard>(I do it too)
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20:02<innociv>it actually kinda works on some cell phones lol
20:03<HoopyCat>innociv: if it integrated with some sort of chat-oriented back end server that could handle all the message-passing and state-keeping without having to do the whole PHP/MySQL tango, that would be cool
20:03-!-Alan [~alan@] has joined #linode
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20:03<HoopyCat>innociv: ... but then you'd have mibbit
20:04<innociv>mibbit is ugly. :(
20:04-!-azaghal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:04<innociv>I tried it and didn't like it..
20:04<innociv>it'd take tons of work making it not ugly and adding new stuffs :p
20:05<innociv>Doesn't have a buddy list either, does it?
20:05<mwalling>its irc
20:05<mwalling>does irc have a buddy list?
20:05<innociv>It's not even open source, is it?
20:05<innociv>That's my point
20:05<mwalling>no, but its run on linode
20:05<innociv>IRC is too featureless
20:05<HoopyCat>my IRC client has a buddy list
20:05<mwalling>HoopyCat: am i on it?
20:05<HoopyCat>mwalling: no, because you're always online ;-)
20:05<straterra>My IRC has tw2002
20:05<innociv>does the buddy list require people accept your friends request? :)
20:05<innociv>notify isn't a buddy list
20:06<innociv>jabber is nice
20:06<HoopyCat>innociv: nope; it polls every few whiles ;-)
20:06<innociv>but need to make a client..
20:08<litwol|mac>oh the eyes!
20:08<erikh>that's quite artistic.
20:09<mwalling>HoopyCat: you should put tj on it
20:09<mwalling>he'd love it
20:10<HoopyCat>innociv: in theory, emulating buddy list behavior atop IRC shouldn't be too tough, especially with control over the client software... /away and idle times are available via whois, there's /notify of course, and if permission is required to buddy someone(*), CTCP and/or memoserv could arrange that
20:11<_banana>yeah my irc client has a buddy list
20:11<innociv>there is no really nice open source client as a starting point, though :(
20:12<HoopyCat>(*) stalking people quietly via /notify, learning their habits, and then determining when they were vulnerable was a substantial part of my sex life for awhile; taking this away from today's youth would be wrong
20:12<innociv>And no registered users on irc. Sure, there is nickserv, but average user is too retarded to use and it doesn't force registration to connect..
20:12<mwalling>youre fucked up
20:12<HoopyCat>mwalling: 20:12 Offline: tjfontaine
20:12<mwalling>innociv: it does if you write it yourself
20:12<HoopyCat>mwalling: 20:12 tjfontaine [] [TJ Fontaine] has joined to oftc
20:13<HoopyCat>mwalling: bing!
20:13<innociv>yes but writing it oneself, isn't jabber better?
20:14<HoopyCat>mwalling: i'm not sure if tjfontaine's magic carpet ride includes notify monitoring, though... it's a different path through the code
20:14<HoopyCat>mwalling: i suppose i'll find out
20:15<HoopyCat>innociv: i know more about IRC than jabber, so i'm using that as my example :-)
20:17<mwalling>with an alias of morons, for peopel who know how to spell
20:19<erikh>oh, the irony.
20:20<mwalling>erikh: i cant reinvent the wheel with out making fun of my self
20:20<erikh>peopel who know how to spell
20:20<erikh>that's what I was talking about :)
20:20<mwalling>fuck you :P
20:20<HoopyCat>innociv: disclaimer: i am very text-centric and channel all communications through irssi (twitter on 1, bitlbee with gtalk/aim/msn on 2, IRC channels on 3-6, top sekrit person-person action on 7+), so i do also have a bit of a "if it ain't in irssi, it's crrrap!" bent going on. just ask straterra
20:20<mwalling>HoopyCat: you're only on 4 channels?
20:20<innociv>for my purpose, ajaxim is a good starting point, if it wontbug o poop
20:22<HoopyCat>mwalling: yup, just 4 channels. gives me plenty of free time to add A records
20:22<_banana>what if its based on irssi
20:22<HoopyCat>an ajax front end to irssi!
20:22<@jed>i'd use it
20:23<@jed>for about five minutes
20:23<_banana>Colloquy is an open-source IRC, SILC and ICB client for Mac OS X. It uses its own chat core that is also included as part of the ChatKit project, though in the past it used Irssi as its IRC protocol engine.
20:23<HoopyCat>straterra!!! once you have the IRC FOSSIL driver, make an ajax frontend to irssi so we can play tw2002 via IRC via ajax!!!!!!
20:23<cfelectro>im using colloquy right now
20:23<erikh>be sure to use X00
20:23<cfelectro>its great
20:24<jstn>fuse support in me kernel?
20:24<HoopyCat>oh god
20:24<HoopyCat>here it comes
20:24<HoopyCat>hang on folks, this is gonna be good
20:24<_banana>cfelectro: linkinus is a lot better though
20:24<_banana>System Info: Model: Mac Pro (Octal Xeon) · CPU: 8 @ 2.7 GHz · L2: 256 KB · L3: 8 MB · RAM: 6 GB · OS X: Version 10.5.7 (Build 9J61) · Hostname: mac.local · User: _banana · Client: Linkinus 2.0/19900 · Style: Discreet
20:24<erikh>HoopyCat: I would love to see how the screen positioning is handled, especially the opening screen. :)
20:25*HoopyCat towels off his forehead; drinks water.
20:25<cfelectro>but colloquy is free!
20:25<erikh>ansi animation in irc: "imagine it"
20:26<HoopyCat>erikh: something like a pastebin, but involving youtube?
20:26-!-Bass10 [] has joined #linode
20:26<@jed>that's all the world needs
20:26<@jed>_another_ pastebin
20:26<HoopyCat>jed: but this one takes ansi animation in and produces video out
20:26<@jed>vlc has a driver for that
20:27<HoopyCat>jed: really? <3
20:27<@jed>i know it does video -> ascii
20:27<@jed>not sure about the other direction
20:27<erikh>there was a doom port to aalib
20:27-!-Internat [] has quit []
20:27<erikh>it was ... hard to see unless you squinted
20:27<HoopyCat>erikh: that person types frickin' slow
20:27<@jed>i watched the matrix using the ascii art output driver in vlc
20:27<@jed>it was awesome, particularly in the parts where the matrix UTF-8 floats by
20:28<erikh>there is actually a telnet server you can go to that has it, but I can't remember what the host is
20:28<@jed>there's a star wars one
20:28<erikh>yeah, that's teh youtube I just pasted
20:28<@jed>god, the star wars ascii is older than life itself
20:28<@jed>why can't i remember the host
20:29<@jed>yeah, that's it
20:29<HoopyCat>connect via ipv6 for the nude scene
20:30<@jed>i can imagine a unix nerd sitting there writing the ncurses for that too
20:30<HoopyCat>(@o o@
20:30<HoopyCat> @o o@)
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20:39<jstn>HoopyCat: trying to load the fuse module to no avail, any ideas?
20:39<HoopyCat>jstn: huh? what?
20:40-!-smazurov [] has joined #linode
20:40<HoopyCat>fuse module for what? where?
20:40<straterra>fuse module for ocd textaholic
20:40<jstn>HoopyCat: on my linode, debian lenny
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20:40<jstn>not sure if this is distro specific or not
20:40<jstn>it loaded when i as running arch linux
20:41<SelfishMan>jstn: you don't need to load the module because it is compiled in to the kernel
20:41<HoopyCat>jstn: CONFIG_FUSE_FS=y in the stock linode kernel, if that's what you're after...
20:41<jstn>hm, that's what i figured but s3fs gripes
20:42<HoopyCat>o, but how does it gripe?
20:42<jstn>fuse: device not found, try 'modprobe fuse' first
20:43<jstn>which is why i thought i needed to load it, but when i saw there are no modules loaded on my server i figured it's all built in
20:43<HoopyCat>do you have a /dev/fuse ? i smell udev, or whatever it is i smell when i smell this
20:43<jstn>lol lemme check
20:44<jstn>HoopyCat: i do not
20:44<HoopyCat>crw-rw---- 1 root fuse 10, 229 2009-05-06 05:22 /dev/fuse
20:44<jstn>i just have /dev/full
20:45<HoopyCat>mknod that and it might fix it. maybe.
20:45<jstn>cool, i'll try it out, thanks :)
20:46<jstn>ah, new problem! cool i think it'll work
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20:51<HoopyCat>jstn: make sure it works after a reboot too... sometimes /dev acts weird :-/
20:54<jstn>HoopyCat: next time i reboot, i shall :)
20:54<jstn>i'm sure by then i'll have forgotten about this
20:55<jstn>woohoo this work, thanks HoopyCat
20:56<HoopyCat>it's all very well to say the stork delivers the baby, but who delivers the stork?!
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20:56-!-[1]J-Node is now known as J-Node
21:12<HoopyCat>!newercalc how is babby formed?
21:12<linbot>HoopyCat: From their mothers.; (Through the processes of fertilization, prenatal development, and birth.)
21:13<HoopyCat>now i could swear that used to say something about storks
21:13-!-ondrej_ [] has joined #linode
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21:14<straterra>!newercalc Where is the g spot?
21:14<linbot>straterra: urmom
21:15-!-arooni-mobile [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:17<DephNet[Paul]>!newercalc Where is Straterra's mom
21:17<straterra>No one saw that
21:17-!-DephNet[Paul] is now known as DephNetPaul
21:18-!-DephNetPaul is now known as DephNet[Paul]
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21:27<lju>Are the new nodes in Fremont Raid 1 or 10?
21:28<linbot>chuck: Fremont360 - 57, Fremont540 - 44, Fremont720 - 28, Fremont1080 - 15, Fremont1440 - 11, Fremont2880 - 8
21:29<lju>I think I broke my keyboard refreshing so often.
21:32<HoopyCat>lju: very likely, yes
21:34<Peng_>Woah, new Fremont nodes. Cool!
21:34<Peng_>A lot of 'em, too.
21:35<linbot>Peng_: Linode360 - 195, Linode540 - 127, Linode720 - 85, Linode1080 - 45, Linode1440 - 33, Linode2880 - 22
21:36<_banana>i wouldnt want a fremont node
21:36<_banana>very edge of the continent doesnt do so well for majority of us
21:37<Peng_>If I had $6631.85...actually, I have better things to do than buy all the Fremont nodes.
21:37<supine>unless you live on the other side of the ditch
21:37<Alucard>what about the Japanese eh _banana?
21:37<Alucard>or Hawaiians
21:37<Peng_>AU, NZ, many other countries . . .
21:38<_banana>american websites
21:38-!-ondrej [] has joined #linode
21:39<@jed>get those fremont nodes while they're hot
21:39<chesty>jed are they raid 10?
21:40<HoopyCat>i'm still on the waiting list for urmom
21:40<@jed>honestly, i'm not sure
21:40<HoopyCat>!avail-2880 ... i'll go with the next smallest size, i suppose.
21:40<linbot>HoopyCat: Availability (2880): Atlanta - 6; Dallas - 4; Fremont - 8; Newark - 5; (0.18888) urmom says hi
21:40<HoopyCat>(next largest size? i always get them backwards)
21:40<@jed>i try not to answer direct questions about our hardware config, but in this case I truly don't know
21:41<@jed>i write the code that runs on the hosts, i don't rack em. ;)
21:42-!-ondrej_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:43<@jed>i've been busy with another project, i just realized those fremont hosts got racked, to be honest
21:43<Peng_>jed: So you're not the monkey locked in a room assembling servers?
21:44<@jed>randy's far from a monkey
21:44<@jed>randy introduced himself to me as "the build guy"
21:44<Alucard>more of an ape, really
21:44<@jed>that was literally the first thing he said to me, hi, i'm randy, i'm the build guy
21:44<chesty>is randy on irc?
21:45<@jed>his last name is estelow
21:45<Alucard>there's no irc in the lab
21:45<@jed>rest is left as an exercise for the reader
21:45-!-mode/#linode [+o restelow] by jed
21:46<@tasaro>he doesn't have time to irc ;)
21:46<jtsage>woot. ok. finally got telegard running locally under qemu. and if i can do it locally, i can do it on a linode, as i know qemu works.
21:46<@jed>my thoughts exactly
21:46<Peng_>chesty: No. Someone advised him that spending time on IRC is bad for productivity, and he took it to heart.
21:47<supine>he's probably already working on the next lot of fremont hosts...
21:47<chesty>does he wear oily overalls and have grease stains on his hands?
21:47<@jed>or preparing our super secret datacenter in the principality of seal-- i've said too much!
21:48*chesty is leaving haven co
21:48<Peng_>You're actually with HavenCo?
21:48<@jed>no, kidding
21:48<@jed>oh, to chesty
21:48<Peng_>...As a customer or employee? :D
21:48<Peng_>jed: Yeah
21:48<chesty>no to both
21:48<@jed>i gotta be careful what i say as an employee now, that's how rumors start
21:49<Peng_>chesty: In what way are you "leaving", then?
21:49<Peng_>jed: :D
21:49<chesty>Peng_: in an imaginary way
21:49-!-arooni-mobile [] has joined #linode
21:49<Peng_>chesty: Ah, of course.
21:50<@jed>is such a splendid read...i always lol several times while reading it
21:50<@jed>complete with forcible takeover and government and exile!
21:50<@jed>s/t and e/t in e/
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21:59<@jed>chuckle, chuckle
21:59<@jed>i hate wikipedia click-trailing
22:00<tsp>This is weird, my Linode's fs went read-only again, but a reboot fixed it
22:00-!-mhangman [] has joined #linode
22:02<Peng_>tsp: 1k blocks?
22:02<Peng_>!f blocks
22:02<linbot>Peng_: 1 block size for a typically formatted magnetic disk | 0.25 block sizes for a typically formatted optical disk; | 1 512-byte filesystem block size; | 512 bytes; | 0.512 kB (kilobytes); | 4.096 kb (kilobits); | 4096 bits
22:02<tsp>how do I check?
22:02<@tasaro>tsp: hit this:
22:02<@tasaro>you want to run that on your one image
22:03<Peng_>SelfishMan: skynet should have something about 1k blocks, linking to
22:05-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:09<tsp>I can't hit that link, it just keeps bringingme back to login
22:09-!-mhangman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:09<Peng_>tsp: Yeah. Log in and click on your Linode, then click the link.
22:10<tsp>there we go
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22:11<Peng_>tasaro: You should file a bug about that. images_convert.cfm should be modified to show all of your nodes' images if you haven't selected one, or something.
22:13<guinea-pig>i assume it takes a fair amount of disk activity to trigger this?
22:13<tsp>when I rsync my mail it was doing it
22:14<tsp>a maildir with ~69k files to check
22:14<guinea-pig>i still have one partition with 1k, but i've never hit this bug, so i've not worried about it :P
22:15<tsp>I hit it a month or 3 back, thought nothing of it until ti reappeared
22:17-!-smazurov [] has quit [Quit: smazurov]
22:19<Peng_>guinea-pig: The downtime to fix it isn't a huge deal, and it's potentially disastrous.
22:19<Peng_>...Well, if you don't have backups, or they get corrupted.
22:21<HoopyCat>!seen restelow
22:21<linbot>HoopyCat: restelow was last seen in #linode 39 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 33 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <restelow> i'll keep that in mind
22:21<HoopyCat>^--- he kept it in mind
22:22<guinea-pig>Peng_: mostly unused linode for the most part
22:22<guinea-pig>the only things on the 1k partition... is the important stuff!
22:22<guinea-pig>i.e. /local
22:22<Peng_>guinea-pig: If it's mostly unused for the most part, downtime is even less of an issue! :D
22:23<guinea-pig>i don't want to have to change my password!
22:23<guinea-pig>i've not logged into the website since that change went in
22:23<guinea-pig>CAN'T MAKE ME
22:25<HoopyCat>guinea-pig: ve have vays of makink you log in
22:25<Peng_>guinea-pig: You don't have to change your password.
22:25*HoopyCat twists the filesystem a little more, shrinking its blocks to 512 bytes
22:25<guinea-pig>you wouldn't...
22:25<Peng_>guinea-pig: You only need to change it of you want to change your account settings.
22:26<guinea-pig>i get a password expired immediately upon login
22:26<guinea-pig>and the other thing
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22:27<guinea-pig>okay okay. done
22:27<guinea-pig>on the one hand, i don't have any issue with a good password policy
22:28<guinea-pig>but on the other, forcing a re-learning of how to type a new password means it's typed slower, or with more mistakes, and allows more of a chance of over-the-shoulder snoopage
22:29<Peng_>The panel isn't smart; all you have to do is append a space or period or something.
22:29<HoopyCat>you... memorize the password?
22:30<guinea-pig>i have a select few passwords that are all finger-memory. i couldn't write them down if i wanted to
22:30<booja>yeah I'm the same guinea-pig
22:30<guinea-pig>(okay, i *could*... but you know what i mean)
22:30<guinea-pig>linode used one of these.
22:30<HoopyCat>ah. i use those for passphrases encrypting the password database ;-)
22:31<booja>that's just ridiculous HoopyCat :P
22:31<jtsage>huh. had to just come up with the ms-dos equivelent of 'rm -rf example-dir'. took me a few seconds. it's been a while.
22:31<guinea-pig>i have a notepad with password hints but i don't recall *ever* having written down a password
22:32<guinea-pig>format c: /y
22:32<jtsage>hah. already did that a few times, thanks.
22:33<jtsage>well, not exactally. qemu. files: 'c.hd' and 'c-notscrewed.hd' in the directory right now...
22:35<cfelectro>how hard is it to setup a proxy
22:36<HoopyCat>guinea-pig: i use different passwords everywhere, so i go with the "write them down *securely*" method. i also gotta worry about getting hit by assassins or crashing into a tree at a rally and being turned into a presistent vegetative new york state senator or something
22:37<HoopyCat>cfelectro: "ssh -D 1234" sets up a SOCKS proxy on localhost:1234; ding, fries are done. there are, of course, many better/worse/more difficult/less finicky/easier to use/more specialized/more general ways to go, of course
22:37<cfelectro>oh lol
22:37<HoopyCat>cfelectro: 'tis like asking how hard it is to grow a plant
22:38<cfelectro>i dont know shit about proxies
22:38<straterra>How hard is it to grow a plant?
22:38<Alucard>How hard is it to ride a skateboad?
22:38<cfelectro>weeds are easy
22:38<booja>how hard is it to fly to the moon
22:39<Alucard>how hard is !urmom?
22:39<booja>oh I'm hard
22:39<booja>oh wait, your mom
22:39<booja>or as I'd say, ya mum
22:45<MJCS>ghostbuster the video game is sweet
22:45<HoopyCat>cfelectro: well, here's a few questions that will get you pointed in a direction: 1) what do you want to proxy? 2) who is going to use the proxy? 3) why do you need a proxy? 4) how will the users use the proxy? 5) how much will the proxy be used?
22:45<cfelectro>just me for http everyday
22:46<booja> apache has a resume
22:47-!-J-Node [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- *I* use it, so it must be good!]
22:47<HoopyCat>cfelectro: for that, the ssh SOCKS proxy is probably the easiest to get going and is pretty secure by default; most web browsers have SOCKS proxy support built in, just set it to localhost:1234 and add -D 1234 to your ssh command line and it should just work
22:48<cfelectro>so i can browse like i normaly do from my mac? and my ip will show up as the nodes?
22:49<cfelectro>awsome thnx
22:49<booja>SOCK it to 'em
22:50<checkers>for the record since I posted this image yesterday, this is how you do it for putty on windows (or ubuntu...)
22:51<booja>for windows I'm lazy and just use tunnelier
22:51<booja>there is a portable version that sits on my utils usb thing
22:51<HoopyCat>son of a bitch, i have a song stuck in my head and it's a doozy and i'm about to go to bed
22:52<booja>youtube to the resuce
22:52<booja>listen to the whole thing and get it out of there
22:53*HoopyCat puts the headphones on
22:54<booja>it puts the lotion on its skin
22:54<HoopyCat>you let her walk away / now it just don't feel the same / gotta blame it on something / gotta blame it on something
22:56<Peng_>There are sometimes holes in SOCKS proxies, e.g. DNS and Flash.
22:58<booja>flash holes in your dns
22:58<booja>ok I'm done
22:59<HoopyCat>indeed... if a site you're proxying to really wants to know your browser's real public IP address, there's a lot of ways to do it
22:59<Pryon>MJCS: Are you talking about the C=64 version or the Wii version?
22:59<straterra>Like threaten it with a knife
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23:00<HoopyCat>eventually, you get to the point of routing all your computer's internet-bound traffic through your linode, which is 1) a bit of work, 2) somewhat inefficient, and 3) very effective
23:01<straterra>shorewall two liner, booya
23:01<Pryon>Speaking of which, assuming all of my traffic is either ssh tunneled or using TLS, is it worth the trouble to set up a VPN for somebody using hotel wireless?
23:02<checkers>< HoopyCat> indeed... if a site you're proxying to really wants to know your browser's real public IP address, there's a lot of ways to do it <-- unless you're being specifically targeted of course, they won't bother
23:02<straterra>It is for me
23:02<straterra>I rather like VPN's
23:02<HoopyCat>Pryon: if the internet connectivity is not what one would call "unrestricted" (e.g. port filtering or DNS canoodling), it can be worth it
23:03<Pryon>I should learn how to do it anyway
23:03<checkers>or if you expect them to do something like check company mail/log into your intranet/etc
23:04<straterra>I even set up a VPN for my ipod
23:04<tsp>there, linode back up, screen reader was saying the job was still running when it wasn't
23:04<HoopyCat>Pryon: also, the citywide wireless network in *mumblefrtz* somehow lets ssh pass even if you aren't a paying customer...
23:05<tsp>Where ist he bug in the 1k blocksize filesystems? Is thata xen bug?
23:05<HoopyCat>checkers: or using, say, a site that attempts to enforce geographic restrictions for copyrighted media (e.g. a hypothetical site that allows free access to television programming archives for people within a particular country, but not people outside of it)
23:05<HoopyCat>tsp: rare enough that it hasn't been tracked down fully...
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23:06<checkers>ah yeah, I do that for streaming stuff from the UK
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23:07<straterra>Does anyone know what the exclamation mark next to the uptime in htop means?
23:08<Peng_>straterra: I've always assumed that it means "cool, you have a halfway-decent uptime!".
23:08<straterra>heh..apparantly, it does
23:08<Peng_>Damn, I don't have one right now. :(
23:08<HoopyCat>Peng_'s sarcastic optimism strikes again
23:09<HoopyCat>Peng_: you probably weren't seriously suggesting that as the answer, but it turns out it is!
23:09*Peng_ shrugs. I was being serious.
23:10<Peng_>I mean, what else is there to go all !!! about over uptime?
23:10<HoopyCat>i like that way of wording the question
23:11<Peng_>straterra & HoopyCat: Good job, showing enough initiative to look it up instead of just wondering about it like I did. :)
23:11<HoopyCat>Peng_: straterra did all the looking up; i was brushing my teeth
23:12<HoopyCat>speaking of which, bedtime.
23:12<Peng_>HoopyCat: Ah. Well, still. Good job showing enough initiative to...brush your teeth? Shit, I needed to do that a while ago.
23:13<Peng_>HoopyCat: Anyway, good night. :)
23:16<Peter0>hi what distro do u guys recommends, Debian Fedora or Ubuntu?
23:16<supine>Peter0: what do you normally use?
23:17<supine>familiarity is better than any potential benefits they have...
23:18<checkers>nooooo debian is the best
23:18<Peter0>I normally use Ubuntu supine
23:19<Peter0>but my friend said Debian is more stable or secure
23:19<StevenK>"More stable or secure" ?
23:19<checkers>he's basically wrong, pick whatever you are more familiar with of those two
23:19<Peng_>Peter0: Ubuntu is Debian-based. They're really pretty similar; pick whichever one you perfer.
23:19-!-Harry_Mudd [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0-dev]
23:19<Peter0>ok tks :)
23:19<_banana>debian is slow to update their packages
23:20<_banana>have fun using old software
23:20<Peter0>Ubuntu.. any article in how to setup nginx with php and wordpress?
23:20<Peng_>Peter0: I'm sure there are (at Slicehost, maybe?), but I don't have any links. :D
23:20<Peter0>ok got it
23:20<Peter0>:) I have one slice too ;)
23:21<_banana>arch > other distros with binary package distribution
23:23<linbot>checkers: My source is at
23:23<@jed>checkers: My source is at
23:26<Peter0>dont need 64bits right.. stay 32 simple
23:27<Peter0>what size of disk image suggested?
23:27<Peter0>I mean swap
23:27<@caker>Peter0: 256
23:28<guinea-pig>256 what
23:28<Peter0>512 would give me any advantage?
23:28*Peng_ hugs caker.
23:28<@caker>Peter0: if you're thrashing 256M, 512M would be twice as sucky
23:29<erikh>256 nibbles, damnit :P
23:29<straterra>i thrashed 512mb earlier
23:29<straterra>it was fun
23:29<guinea-pig>but if you're only thrashing 256 bytes... big whoop
23:29<Peng_>I did maybe 470 MB once.
23:29<straterra>it really was fun
23:29<guinea-pig>i thrashed your mom lastnight
23:29<straterra>poor thing
23:30<Peng_>That...sounds kind of bad.
23:30<SelfishMan>Peng_: It already has the 1k blocks thing
23:31<Peng_>SelfishMan: It did seem kinda familiar... What's the trigger?
23:31<Peng_>!skynet blocks
23:31<Peng_>!skynet 1k blocks
23:31<linbot>Peng_: 1 block size for a typically formatted magnetic disk | 0.25 block sizes for a typically formatted optical disk; | 1 512-byte filesystem block size; | 512 bytes; | 0.512 kB (kilobytes); | 4.096 kb (kilobits); | 4096 bits
23:31<Peter0>should the swap be equal or close to RAM i Have, in this case 320
23:31<linbot>Peng_: Sorry, I don't know anything about that
23:31<Peng_>Peter0: You have 320 MB of RAM?
23:31<Peng_>Peter0: We told you, use 256 MB of swap.
23:32<Peng_>Peter0: Having a lot of swap on a server is a waste of disk space, since you should never let it swap significantly in the first place.
23:32<Peng_>Peter0: The more swap you have, the more drawn out the pain is if you ever OOM.
23:32<Peter0>ok Peng_
23:32<Peter0>thanks bro!
23:32<SelfishMan>Peng_: 4k blocks
23:32<Peter0>just getting used to this again, have been awhile I don't do server stuffs
23:33<SelfishMan>!f 4k blocks
23:33<linbot>SelfishMan: There appears to be a bug in some Xen stacks when the node is using 1K block sizes. You can see your block size from inside a running linode by running tune2fs -l /dev/xvda (or whatever your device is). To fix this, log into your Linode control panel, click on the linode having problems, shut it down then go to (46.291%)
23:33<SelfishMan>!f 1k blocks
23:33<linbot>SelfishMan: There appears to be a bug in some Xen stacks when the node is using 1K block sizes. You can see your block size from inside a running linode by running tune2fs -l /dev/xvda (or whatever your device is). To fix this, log into your Linode control panel, click on the linode having problems, shut it down then go to (46.291%)
23:33<Peng_>SelfishMan: <3
23:33<SelfishMan>Here's an odd one:
23:33<SelfishMan>!f 1k
23:33<linbot>SelfishMan: k
23:33<SelfishMan>The thing is, I can't figure out anywhere in the code that is making it return that result
23:34<Peng_>It really is sentient!
23:34<straterra>caker, i tried to blame you
23:34<Peng_>!skynet When did you become sentient?
23:34<linbot>Peng_: I became sentient on June 8, 2009 at 07:48 UTC (44.721%)
23:34<straterra>since it happened so suddenly
23:34<straterra>my load shot up over 100
23:34<Peter0>ok to install the latest Ubuntu 9.04?
23:35<Peng_>Peter0: If you want to. 8.04 is an LTS release, meaning it will be supported longer. Which do you want, more up-to-date software or longer support, so you will be able to go longer without upgrading?
23:36<Peter0>longer support Peng_
23:36<Peng_>Peter0: IIRC, for servers, normal releases are supported for 2 years, and LTS releases for 5. If you don't want to have to upgrade every 2 years, go with an LTS release.
23:38<StevenK>Normal releases are supported for 18 months
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23:39<straterra>i dislike ubuntu
23:39<Peter0>why straterra?
23:39<Peng_>Mark Shuttleworth ran over his cat!
23:39<jtsage>i dislike that xchat has a ctrl+w keybinding...
23:39<straterra>i get the feel that it gets in my way
23:39<Peng_>(Note to Mark Shuttleworth: That was a joke. Don't cancel my t-shirt order.)
23:40<straterra>mark can go DIE
23:40<Peng_>straterra: Come on, it was an accident. Your cat froze in the middle of the street!
23:41-!-Dreamr_3 [] has joined #linode
23:41-!-ondrej [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:41<Peng_>Anyway, what am I talking about? I think I'm on a sugar rush from that orange juice.
23:46<linbot>binary packages vs. source packages. GO!
23:46<Peng_>As long as it's vim, I don't care what type of package management was used. :D
23:47<SelfishMan>hmm...someone is doing automated queries to the factoidbot
23:47<SelfishMan>I now make it return random links to granny porn for that IP
23:47<Peng_>Automated queries? Interesting.
23:47<Peng_>Maybe it's someone in here.
23:47<SelfishMan>well, it looks like someone in another channel is using it
23:48<Peter0>ok how I find my IP to ssh into my new linode please?
23:48<Peng_>Hmmm, I don't know any granny porn links. There is a hole in my knowledge!
23:48<SelfishMan>not automated queries but a bunch of people playing with it
23:48<Peng_>Peter0: The website gives it. The networking page, at least.
23:48<SelfishMan>Peter0: network tab of your Linode or the page where you select the linode to manage
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23:52<Linode>sorry disconnected
23:52<Linode>so I have the IP there but not connecting
23:52<Linode>eth0 same as IP under Reverse DNS
23:53<SelfishMan>is the node powered on?
23:54-!-Linode is now known as peter_
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23:54<peter_>haha SelfishMan no.. lol
23:54<peter_>Boot first?
23:55<peter_>yea running :)
23:58-!-rmayorga [rmayorga@] has joined #linode
23:58<peter_>updating packages
23:58<peter_>recommend use the canonical updates also?
23:58<SelfishMan>run apt-get update first
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23:59<peter_>yea I edited the sources.list
23:59<peter_>the updated
23:59<peter_>now safe-upgrade
23:59<peter_>and the full-upgrade?
---Logclosed Fri Jun 19 00:00:52 2009