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#linode IRC Logs for 2009-06-20

---Logopened Sat Jun 20 00:00:00 2009
00:01<Peng_>Oh, looks like I'm only in 1 channel there, and it's dead anyway.
00:03<Peng_>Least I didn't annoy anybody with all my nick changes.
00:04<@caker>what? they're remaking The Karate Kid?
00:04<praetorian>oh dear
00:06<Harry_Mudd>i hope the surf nazi kid wind this time
00:07<@caker>with jackie chan
00:08<@caker>as none other than Mr. Miyagi
00:09-!-brainproxy [~brainprox@] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
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00:10<mib_h5u6i9r5>I always prefer chat rooms that occasionally stray off topic, I hardly see rooms like that on freenode
00:10-!-brainproxy [~brainprox@] has joined #linode
00:11<mib_h5u6i9r5>maybe because I always hang out on #django and #python
00:11<Peng_>mib_h5u6i9r5: #dreamhost is always off-topic. :)
00:11<Peng_>mib_h5u6i9r5: Anyway, Freenode banned Mibbit, so it's not relevant for you anymore. :D
00:11-!-kertz [~kertz@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:13<mib_h5u6i9r5>I only use mibbit when I'm at this office.
00:13<mib_h5u6i9r5>but if you need an answer, those two chat rooms I mentioned are very responsive
00:13<Peng_>Yeah, I'm in #python.
00:14<mib_h5u6i9r5>never tried it but I heard that "lol" gets you banned on #python
00:14<_banana>try it
00:14<Peng_>mib_h5u6i9r5: It's not like a bot kicks you, but it pisses off all of the ops.
00:15<Peng_>mib_h5u6i9r5: Not sure if I've ever seen someone actually get kicked or banned, just yelled at.
00:15*_banana goes there to try
00:15<Peng_>_banana: I cannot condone such activity.
00:16<_banana>i dont see any ops Peng
00:16<_banana>i dont see any ops Peng_
00:16<Peng_>_banana: It's Freenode. People don't usually op themselves unless they need to.
00:16<@irgeek>Now you do.
00:16<_banana>this is freenode?
00:17<@irgeek>Peng_: Feeling lost?
00:17<Peng_>We were talking about a Freenode channel.
00:17<_banana>o rly
00:17<Alucard>#linode is on Freenode in bizarro world
00:17<_banana>i thought you meant the #python here, because you're in that channel too
00:17<Peng_>Alucard: There is a #linode on Freenode.
00:17<tjfontaine>bizarro jerry
00:18<Alucard>what does that make this world?
00:18<Internat>yeah #linode@freenode is where the cool kids hang out :P
00:18<Peng_>Internat: Hence why it's completely empty.
00:18<Internat>pretty much
00:19<MJCS>Well I have jacked my hands up so much. I have to result to speak two type software
00:20<_banana>28 users is not really what i call empty
00:20<Peng_>_banana: This channel has like 15 times that.
00:20<Peng_>_banana: What are we talking about now?
00:20<_banana>i realize that
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00:21<MJCS>How're you doing today
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00:28<_banana>lol at topic
00:28<_banana>No "LOL" | it's too early to use python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Use or DIE | Tutorial: | FAQ: | New Programmer? Read | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python-es #python-br #python-jp #python-nl
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00:31<_banana>Peng_: say LOL, i want to see what happens
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00:42<_banana>DylanWilson: lol
00:42<_banana>Peng_ !!
00:42<_banana>that guy said lol
00:43<Peng_>And he's still alive?! OMG!
00:43<Peng_>Heh, I hadn't noticed.
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00:44<SelfishMan>tjfontaine: Of course there is electricity here. We're not Kentucky!
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00:47<mpardo>I'm having a little trouble with VirtualHosts... i just setup my VPS and put the first site on it
00:47<mpardo>I want to use this convention /home/user/public_html/
00:47<mpardo>but it doesn't like that
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01:09<mib_1a4dnkrk>"Mercurial uses locks to ensure that only one process can write to a repository at a time (the locking mechanism is safe even over filesystems that are notoriously hostile to locking, such as NFS)." - I wonder how they managed that
01:10<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: Use the source. :D
01:10<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: Check out Bazaar too, maybe.
01:11<mib_1a4dnkrk>the Mercurial book is a great read
01:12<Peng_>Looks like hg use a symlink, or a file if symlinks aren't supported.
01:15<mib_1a4dnkrk>Peng_: do you use Bazaar?
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01:16<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: Why?
01:16<mib_1a4dnkrk>just curious, I didn't evaluate it for my current project because it was too slow the last time I used it
01:16<Peng_>Oh, I linked to the annotate view of one but not the other. Oh well, whatever.
01:17<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: I use bzr and hg. I find bzr more interesting, and follow its development more closely.
01:18<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: 1.) I just like bzr better, 2.) It's more interesting to watch a project where they're still coming up with new disk and network formats; hg started off with better formats and hasn't had to change them.
01:18<Peng_>(more or less)
01:19<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: When was the last time you used bzr? Which version? Which repo format?
01:20<mib_1a4dnkrk>I think I used it when it was still called bazaar
01:20<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: What do you mean? You used baz?
01:20<mib_1a4dnkrk>when they were still figuring out the name
01:20<mib_1a4dnkrk>ahh yes, I think it was called baz at that time
01:21<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: baz is 100% different from bzr. baz is a fork of Arch; bzr is a new codebase.
01:21<mib_1a4dnkrk>what I liked about it was that it could push over FTP, at the time I didn't have a VPS
01:22<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: bzr still supports FTP, FWIW. SFTP, too, if your provider is less shitty.
01:22<mib_1a4dnkrk>I don't recall what I used but I'm pretty sure the command was bzr
01:22<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: Oh.
01:23<mib_1a4dnkrk>yeah, I was using cheap web hosting so bzr was the only thing that worked on it
01:23<Peng_>Note: I probably fall under some definition of biased in regards to bzr.
01:24<Peng_>Well, I dunno what I'm trying to say. Anyway, I do hang out in #bzr a lot, and am sort of a developer of one Bazaar-related project.
01:24<mib_1a4dnkrk>is it just me or is learning Mercurial a lot easier than learning Subversion...
01:24<Peng_>Subversion? Who uses Subversion?
01:24<mib_1a4dnkrk>I use it at my day job
01:25<mib_1a4dnkrk>I remember learning it a 5-6 years ago and I remember it taking a much longer time to understand
01:25<@irgeek>Subversion is awesome.
01:25<@irgeek>If you're only checking out...
01:25<Peng_>I moved away from svn at the same time I started becoming semi-competent with VCSes.
01:26<Peng_>I use bzr-svn now. :D
01:26<Peng_>For when I have to deal with svn at all. Which is very rarely.
01:26<mib_1a4dnkrk>chapter 4 of the mercurial book is a great introduction on its internals
01:27<Peng_>My only comment about svn is that every time I use it, I have to check the help page for --revision arguments.
01:27<mib_1a4dnkrk>to its***
01:28<Peng_>Still have no clue what they are, and I don't care to either, since I avoid svn. :)
01:28<Peng_>irgeek: I used bzr-git too. :D
01:29<mib_1a4dnkrk>Peng_: which bzr related project are you working on?
01:30<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: Loggerhead, the web viewer. (I dispute "working", though.)
01:30<Peng_>mib_1a4dnkrk: (That link above uses it!)
01:30<Peng_>Really, I barely qualify as a developer.
01:30<Peng_>For all the time I spend on OFTC and Freenode, I'm not very smart, or productive.
01:31<mib_1a4dnkrk>sometimes I hang out here just because I need the human interaction in between coding sprints
01:32<mib_1a4dnkrk>I don't think you can actually learn much from a chat room.
01:32<Peng_>I think I learn a lot from IRC. OTOH, I also think I'm pretty dumb, so I dunno.
01:33<@irgeek>Peng_: Is this supposed to be the official loggerhead repo:
01:33<@irgeek>'Cause it's broken.
01:35<Peng_>irgeek: No. lp:loggerhead is current.
01:35<mib_1a4dnkrk>well I say that, but I've learned quite a bit from this room and #django etc..
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01:35<Peng_>irgeek: aka or, for the web page,
01:36<mib_1a4dnkrk>in particular, learning about fail2ban
01:37<mib_1a4dnkrk>got to get back to work, see you guys
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02:02<chuck>I just got disconnected from freenode on my Linode for the second time today :S
02:04<Peng_>Freenode? Unreliable? It cannot be!
02:04<Peng_>Sorry. :P
02:06<chuck>considering the fact that i'm starting to get lag to OFTC too, I think it might be a problem with Linode ;-)
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02:07<Peng_>chuck: mtr!
02:07<chuck>mtr, or it didn't happen
02:08<chuck>well i reconnected now, so I guess it doesn't matter
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02:11<checkers>I haven't seen any issues from dallas
02:12<checkers>actually: [Lag: 72 (??)]
02:13<checkers>looks like just a freenode failure from here chuck
02:15<chuck>hmm, kind of strange that it happened twice within a few hours, and that I have 30 seconds of lag to OFTC during the problem though
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02:22<Peng_>Freenode's fine for me, FWIW. I'm on weber.
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02:28<N1JER_>is there a problem with newark14 ?
02:29<JoeK>im having problems at newark
02:30<JoeK>i cant get to ssh on my newark -.-
02:30<N1JER>I couldn't get to my machine for a couple minutes, seems to be ok now
02:30<JoeK>yep fine now
02:30<N1JER>well, not really, actually
02:31<N1JER>I'm IRC'ing off my node, but I can't connect to my webservers
02:32<linbot>SelfishMan: [mtr] 9 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 83.2ms
02:32<N1JER>seems like it is up and down for me :/
02:32<linbot>SelfishMan: [mtr] 11 hops, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms
02:33<linbot>SelfishMan: [mtr] 12 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 21.2ms
02:33<SelfishMan>looks like someone is having routing issues
02:33<N1JER>SelfishMan: are you a linodian? (do you work for linode) :)
02:34<Peng_>N1JER: The ops do.
02:34<SelfishMan>N1JER: No, I am just a customer
02:34<N1JER>ok, i'll make an official report then, just so there is a record :P
02:35<SelfishMan>It's an issue at NAC
02:35<SelfishMan>not worth reporting it unless it continues for a bit
02:35<JoeK>yes i would like to state that i didnt cause this
02:35<JoeK>the highest b/w i used in 24 hours was 400k
02:36<N1JER>SelfishMan: probably right.
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02:37<SelfishMan>!skynet Did JoeK cuase this network problem?
02:37<linbot>SelfishMan: JoeK caused the network problems in Newark. (70.711%)
02:37<SelfishMan>JoeK: skynet doesn't lie
02:37<JoeK>oh man
02:37<JoeK>i should go like.. die
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02:39<crzyboi>hey is it easy to change your credit card info if you are on a month to month basis?
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02:42<@pparadis>we're working on the issue with NAC
02:43<JoeK>no wonder why im lagging
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02:43<JoeK>my home isp buys off of NAC too
02:43<@pparadis>unlucky for you
02:43<JoeK>you bet
02:44<@pparadis>hey, i went through 4 cable modems inside of a week with crapcast at my house before they finally got their act together :/
02:44<JoeK>i use an isp nobody here knows of
02:44<@pparadis>"no, really, i'm actually dropping 70% of the packets that come across my interface..."
02:44<JoeK>i hate it when isps think that the problem is your fault
02:44<JoeK>my isp is like "check your modem and router"
02:44<@pparadis>i found the magic words with comcast are "run a 'ping test'"
02:45<@pparadis>that's code for traceroute with them
02:45<JoeK>and then an hour later they say "oh, theres a problem in your area, were fixing it as we speak"
02:45<@pparadis>at which point they're like "damnnnn"
02:45<JoeK>yea i do traceroutes and email it to them
02:45<@pparadis>i showed a comcast contractor mtr and he just about fell over.
02:46<JoeK>they think there is no smart people on their isp
02:46<@pparadis>i told him he could carry a knoppix cd with him and run it on customer machines if he wanted...
02:46<JoeK>when they get owned they are like "um"
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02:46<JoeK>i want to be my own ISP >_>
02:47<SelfishMan>As someone that has worked for an ISP, 99% of the time a power cycle of the CPE will do the job
02:47<JoeK>that way my staff cant tell me BS
02:47<@pparadis>lucky enough, that guy was actually fairly smart (actually knew the cable side really well), and he completely went along with me on the phone with his people.
02:47<JoeK>my isp is so stupid though
02:47<SelfishMan>The problem most of the time is that even though they say they have reset it they usually haven't and just rebooted their computer instead.
02:47<JoeK>im supposed to be getting 800kb/s on downloads
02:47<@pparadis>SelfishMan: getting them to do anything like that is worse than pulling teeth.
02:47<JoeK>im only getting 200kb/s
02:47<JoeK>and they say "your signals are fine"
02:48<@pparadis>"your signal looks great on your modem!"
02:48<JoeK>thats what they all say
02:48<JoeK>my sound rate is extreely high
02:48<JoeK>(sound on the cable line)
02:48<@pparadis>okay supportboy, run your "ping test" (30 seconds later) "holy crap your stuff is jacked!"
02:49<JoeK>my isp gives me a modem without a webend(so i cant see my signals)
02:49<JoeK>so they are "right"
02:49<JoeK>as soon as i got my own, ...
02:50<JoeK>i wish i bought directly off of level3
02:50<JoeK>or nac
02:51-!-MathieuB [] has joined #linode
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02:52<MathieuB>If I have a question, would this be the right place to ask?
02:52<linbot>Don't ask to ask; just ASK
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02:53<MathieuB>Alright. Just got a linode and trying to figure out where to get the info to connect via FTP
02:53<JoeK>you have to install ftp on your own
02:53<JoeK>you have an sshd account though
02:53<@pparadis>an ftp server isn't installed by default.
02:54<@pparadis>what OS are you using?
02:54<MathieuB>Ah, that would explain why I can't connect.
02:54<MathieuB>Centos 5.2
02:54<@pparadis>we provide a minimal install.
02:54<@pparadis>are you using windows on the desktop?
02:54<raistlinthewiz>hey is there any network outages over newark?
02:54<Peng_>MathieuB: Why would you WANT FTP?
02:54<Peng_>raistlinthewiz: People have been having some issues.
02:54<@pparadis>you can use PuTTY to connect via SSH.
02:55<A-KO>I sitll don't understand all the hatred towards FTP
02:55<@pparadis>you could also use WinSCP to connect in a graphical environment for transferring files later on.
02:55<@pparadis>A-KO: clear-text passwords?!?
02:55<JoeK>are the dns servers failing or is it just me?
02:55<@pparadis>and data transfers in the clear?
02:55<MathieuB>@Peng Simply used to it
02:55<MathieuB>Alright, I'll try that. Thanks pparadis
02:56<raistlinthewiz>@peng, my sites stopped responding as used to, css are not transferred correctly
02:56<@pparadis>MathieuB: that's all right :). please feel free to ask for help anytime you need it.
02:56<A-KO>pparadis: Depending on what you're using FTP for, I don't see the issue. It's not like I'm saying set the chroot dir to / and login as root over FTP. Just saying, the animosity towards FTP is kind of.....unwarranted.
02:56<raistlinthewiz>no changes with configuration, was running at least for days
02:56<JoeK>the dns servers are failing
02:56<raistlinthewiz>hmm ok
02:56<@pparadis>A-KO: ftp is fine for anonymous transfers, but unacceptable anytime auth is involved.
02:57<raistlinthewiz>did admins made any ETA announcements for fix?
02:57<@pparadis>if you're referring to NAC, we're working on it.
02:57<@pparadis>there's an issue with the DC itself.
02:57<Peng_>From what I've heard, programming a client is a bitch, too, thanks to inconsistent server implementations.
02:58<chesty>Peng_: you're an ops now?
02:58<A-KO>I use FTP and FTPES for my hosted websites and it's more than fine. In fact, I use FTP (Explicit) to handle even managing the sites individually on my own at times because of the way I've got user permissions configured--and it's better than doing it with SCP (which in my case would mean doing it as root). FTP (Implicit) accomplishes the same thing as SFTP/SCP.
02:59<dcraig>I just use telnet *shrug*
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02:59<chesty>what do you care if other people don't like ftp?
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02:59<@pparadis>A-KO: if you're tacking crypto on, that's fine. the traditional FTP implementation is not.
02:59<Peng_>A-KO & chesty: Who were you trying to tab-/auto-complete? Me or pparadis?
02:59<@pparadis>but it begs the question: why not just use scp/rsync/ssh?
02:59<A-KO>chesty: Because there's a lot of animosity towards it in here over the years.
03:00<chesty>Peng_: you
03:00<@pparadis>A-KO: people misuse FTP constantly.
03:00<Peng_>chesty: What's an "ops"?
03:00<SelfishMan>!f ops
03:00<linbot>SelfishMan: Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful community. (95.400%)
03:00<A-KO>pparadis: Because FTP implementations, when you're doing hosted sites, are easier to give to people since almost all OS' have some built-in support for FTP.
03:00<Peng_>chesty: I am most definitely -o, if that's what you mean.
03:00<chesty>I know, but two people promoted you
03:00<chesty>read back
03:00<Peng_>Oh oh.
03:01<Peng_>Hmm, "@Peng". That looks good. I don't like "@peng" as much, though.
03:01<A-KO>besides, depending on the ftp server's authentication system--whether or not the FTP user passwords are transmitted as cleartext is of no consequence.
03:02<A-KO>chesty: Part of the reason why I speak up is because there's almost a unanimous blasting of FTP-anything in the channel here. And while it's true that you shouldn't run FTP as your primary file transfer mechanism between your linode and your machine--I just think people jump the gun without understanding one's purpose or implementation.
03:02<A-KO>For some people, FTP can be as secure--if configured properly.
03:03<Peng_>Hmm. I'm trying to think of a response, but I can't.
03:03<@pparadis>it's just _so_ much easier to use ssh.
03:03<SelfishMan>pparadis: depends on the use
03:03<A-KO>I agree, for managing your linode's filesystem from a Windows GUI, a tool like WinSCP is much much nicer and more suited towards that as it was designed for working for that purpose.
03:04<SelfishMan>I host websites for a lot of people and most of them demand FTP access. I could eventually switch them over to other protocols but that's a tough sell
03:04<A-KO>It gives you many options related to system management that a regular FTP client won't or can't.
03:04<JoeK>Filezilla can use SFTP too
03:04<@pparadis>heck, i use ssh ingration in nautilus under gnome on my laptop, and macfuse on my work rig.
03:04<A-KO>SelfishMan: I offer mine both FTP and explicit ssl
03:04<A-KO>it provides enough security
03:04<SelfishMan>A-KO: Yes, I offer SSL as well on it
03:05<A-KO>explicit SSL is the best option IMO
03:05<Peng_>I think I underestimate the number of situations where FTP is more useful than SFTP.
03:05<@pparadis>i'm trying to think if i have any auth'ed services on my linode that _don't_ require crypto...
03:05<SelfishMan>I'm more using "FTP" as a generic term for all versions and specs of the protocol
03:05<Peng_>Still, if you can avoid FTP, you should.
03:06<SelfishMan>I have to run FTP, POP3 and IMAP unencrypted and have been trying for years to get people to use the SSL/TLS version
03:06<@irgeek>Doesn't FTPOMGWEADDEDSSL only encrypt the control channel? So your files (with the passwords in the PHP files) still cross the wire clear-text?
03:06<@pparadis>for those affected by the NAC issues, i see good connectivity from here, anyone care to verify via MTR?
03:06<Peng_>FTP's advantage over SFTP is ubiquity, and tools for setting up chroots or whatever. The ideal solution would be improving SFTP, not continuing to use FTP.
03:06<A-KO>pretty sure it enrcypts the data channel also
03:07<raistlinthewiz>ill run MTR
03:07<@irgeek>Pretty sure it doesn't.
03:08<SelfishMan>Peng_: With many programs still barely supporting FTP without encryption that's asking a lot. I get calls from people all the time using an older fersion of Dreamweaver or one of hundreds of other site/content editing apps.
03:08<SelfishMan>It's a miracle for them to work with FTP, FTPES is still pretty funky with most and SFTP is unheard of
03:09<SelfishMan>It's not ideal but changing technologies is a long process
03:09<A-KO>Secure Data Channel
03:09<A-KO>The secure data channel can be entered through the issue of the PROT command. It is also enabled by default when the AUTH TLS command is issued. After such time, all data channel communication between the FTPS client and server is assumed to be encrypted.
03:09<A-KO>The FTPS client may exit the secure data channel mode at any time by issuing a CDC (clear data channel) command.
03:10<@pparadis>the tools are readily available, in point-and-click GUI wrappers.
03:11<SelfishMan>pparadis: That's fine for some but tell that to the person that is pissed at you because they just spent $500 on $zomgawesomehtmleditor and are pissed that it supports uploading sites but YOUR SERVER won't work with their software
03:11<Peng_>SelfishMan: Yeah, I know. That's why I want to go move to Ideal World, where I have a gigabit, IPv6 connection for $10/month, instead
03:11<raistlinthewiz>ppradis it seems fine
03:11<SelfishMan>They aren't willing to work with you on that
03:11<@pparadis>raistlinthewiz: great to hear.
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03:12<@pparadis>SelfishMan: i used to work that biz, and i drew a line in terms of protocol support. i had a few bumps in the road, but never actually lost a client.
03:13<checkers>personally I'd just suggest they turn their one click deployment into a two click
03:13<SelfishMan>pparadis: I know but it's a tough one. Supporting old protocols is the least expensive way to go while working to move to moar better options
03:13<checkers>deploy to a staging directory on their hard drive, then run a .bat you supplied that does pscp.exe magic
03:14<@pparadis>what chekers is describing is almost exactly what i provided for several clients.
03:14<checkers>triple highlight win
03:14*checkers points pparadis towards the tab key :P
03:14<@pparadis>i never told anyone to pack sand, i gave them a migration path toward something more viable.
03:14*pparadis has had a couple of friday night drinks ;)
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03:15<SelfishMan>I'm always willing to work with people but some people demand that you make your servers work with their overpriced software
03:16<@pparadis>then they wouldn't be my client, plain and simple. people who are that inflexible from the start, unwilling to use a bridge solution, are almost never worth the misery later on.
03:16<SelfishMan>I'm that way now but when you are doing support for someone else it isn't your place to turn away the business
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03:17<@pparadis>that's a true statement.
03:17<SelfishMan>I'm still trying to explain to a handful of people around here that don't see anything wrong with sending information via email
03:18<@pparadis>oh, the things i've seen sent over email.
03:18<SelfishMan>There are banks and other financial organizations that don't think email can be seen or read by anyone except the sender and the recipient
03:18<@pparadis>not that i ever ran ethereal on a laptop in a coffee shop for seven hours straight a few years ago or anything...
03:18<@irgeek>I sent urmom over email.
03:19<@pparadis>urmom just emailed me to cyber. thanks for reminding me.
03:19<SelfishMan>cyber? ha!
03:19<SelfishMan>urmom is under my desk right now
03:19<checkers>my friend gets a lot of random misdirected email in his gmail account
03:19<@pparadis>oh yeah.
03:19<checkers>he has ... and a lot of amazing stuff arrives there
03:19<@pparadis>that's actually my brother. enjoy.
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03:24<MathieuB>In a console, how do you go back to the start, where you can enter commands? Currently stuck with 'ftp>'
03:25<checkers>^D aka ctrl-d
03:25<checkers>you're running the 'ftp' program currently
03:25<MathieuB>Alright, thanks
03:28<kleang>hello, could someone pls help with cloning linode to another linode?
03:28<@irgeek>There's a button for that.
03:28<@irgeek>Under Settings & Utilities.
03:29<@irgeek>I think...
03:29<@irgeek>Yeah, it's there.
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03:30<kleang>how I can start new Linode after cloning, it's error when I try to boot Filesystem /dev/vg1/linode18053-108999 not found. Boot aborted.
03:30<kleang>Do I need to configure something before boot it?
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03:34<@irgeek>kleang: The clone failed. I think it's because of some network issues in Newark when you started it. Delete the images and profile it created and start the clone again.
03:36-!-kleang [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:37<MathieuB>In the console, having -------------------------------------------- at the bottom, trying to go back to entering commands. How do I do that?
03:37-!-kleang [] has joined #linode
03:39<MathieuB>Not sure what I've done, have ------------- at the bottom, says --INSERT-- above it.
03:39<MathieuB>Trying to go back to entering commands
03:40<@irgeek>MathieuB: What's your LinodeID?
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03:41<kleang>hi, after cloning linode how I can boot the new linode? Do I need to configure anything?
03:41<@irgeek>MathieuB: Try ctrl-c
03:43<@irgeek>MathieuB: Hit esc a few times then type :q!
03:43<@irgeek>01:34 <@irgeek> kleang: The clone failed. I think it's because of some network issues in Newark when you started it. Delete the images and profile it created and start the clone again.
03:44<@irgeek>MathieuB: esc first
03:44<@irgeek>And it's :q!
03:44<@irgeek>Your' not typing the :
03:45<@irgeek>There you go. :_)
03:45<Peng_>irgeek: You're watching his console?
03:45<@irgeek>What? Who?
03:45*irgeek clicks close
03:45<@irgeek>Peng_: No.
03:45<MathieuB>Thanks. Total noob with Linux, can you tell? ^^;
03:46<@irgeek>MathieuB: Try using nano instead of vi. Much easier when you're learning.
03:48<MathieuB>Will try that, thanks.
03:49<@pparadis>for a very good introduction to the shell, you may find this info useful:
03:49<@pparadis>not something you digest all at once, but good for taking chunks at a time.
03:50<Peng_>...I should read something like that someday. :D
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03:50<checkers>use a better shell!!!
03:50<@pparadis>oh lordy
03:51<@pparadis>here it comes
03:51<@pparadis>knew it
03:51<checkers>down with gnu up with tcsh
03:51<@pparadis>so you're saying Peng_'s shell is bigger than yours?
03:52<checkers>not with this new nasal spray
03:52<@pparadis>dude, are you sure that's afrin in that bottle?
03:52<checkers>i'm just happy to see you
03:53<@pparadis>i bet your are.
03:53<Peng_>I'm happy to see my hallucinations. You, not so much. :D
03:53*pparadis slowly reaches for something to use as a weapon
03:53<Peng_>Actually, I'm hallucinating you. But I'm still not happy to see you-you, just head-you.
03:54<@pparadis>kinda like Head-On?
03:54<checkers>just dont wake up until I finish updating my DNS...
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03:54<@pparadis>look, mikegrb is the one with the chloroform...
03:55<fred>I thought that was straterra
03:55<@pparadis>that was only for doing urmom
03:55<@pparadis>he got rid of the rest afterward from the trauma of the PTSD he suffered in the flashbacks
03:56<linbot>pparadis: Yo momma's so full of fail, she managed to DDoS! (729:0/0) [urmom]
03:56<MathieuB>How do you save a file using nano?
03:56<@pparadis>Ctrl + O
03:57<Peng_>It'll also ask you if you want to save on exit.
03:57<amitz>reminds me to a recent crime approach, holding a handkerchief soaked with chloroform and makes an event to put the chloroform near victims.
03:57<checkers>that is recent?
03:57<Peng_>amitz: What?
03:58<amitz>checkers: that is not recent?
03:58<checkers>I'm pretty sure TV baddies did that during my morning cartoons back in... a while ago
03:58<@pparadis>maybe a particular spin on that theme is...
03:58<@pparadis>criminals aren't always very original. actually, very few ever are.
03:58<amitz>oh, not blatantly put the handkerchief in front of the victim, but put it near in a plausible deniability way
03:59<@pparadis>tell me more
03:59*pparadis mumbles to himself about asking straterra for a ride in his eclipse.
03:59-!-kleang [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:59<amitz>well, the case in public bus, you move your hand as if you want to open the window and you're setting on the aisle.
04:00-!-saurabh [] has joined #linode
04:00<amitz>and while you're on the aisle and the victim near the window, people inside the bus will less likely to notice.
04:00<@pparadis>what's wrong with heading down to your local pub and buying a girl some drinks? maybe, i don't know, some idle chatting? maybe i'm just old fasioned.
04:00<saurabh>hello everyone
04:01<saurabh>can anyone please tell me what is bandwidth pooling
04:01<@pparadis>bandwidth is pooled between your linodes.
04:01<saurabh>can you please explain that
04:01<@pparadis>your transfer quota is the sum of the individual linodes' transfer quotas.
04:01<chuck>saurabh: It means that the bandwidth allocations of all your Linodes are added together, and that's essentially how much all of your Linodes can use
04:02<chuck>(that raises some questions in my head, but i'll stifle them for now :P)
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04:02<saurabh>ok thank you all
04:02-!-saurabh [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:02<@pparadis>chuck, chuck, chuck...
04:02<amitz>there is another method to drug a girl. Basically you take your standard plastic water bottle, inject drug into the bottle from the bottom, and seal the hole by candle.
04:02<chuck>pparadis, pparadis, pparadis...
04:03<@pparadis>say it again
04:03<chuck>"phil, phil, phil" works better
04:03<@pparadis>much better
04:03<chuck>that reminds me of bill nye the science guy
04:03<chuck>damn it SpaceHobo :P
04:03<Peng_>amitz: Why not just inject the person directly?
04:03<amitz>makes me paranoid... *sigh*
04:03<chuck>I need to type faster
04:03<@pparadis>amitz: you know, i busted a dude about 10 years ago trying to drug a friend of mine; it did not go well for him.
04:04<amitz>because it's bothersome and may makes the girl has the time to yell.
04:04<Peng_>It'd be nice if there was a new user around that we could scare away.
04:04<amitz>pparadis: yeah, people like that sucks
04:05<Peng_>amitz: Wait, why do you have a water bottle, syringe and lit candle?
04:05<Peng_>Oh, I get it. So the bottle won't look tampered with.
04:05<@pparadis>amitz: i assure you, he didn't try anything resembling that show again for a long, long time. he may have needed therapy.
04:06<@pparadis>but i'm really a very nice guy, honestly!
04:06*irgeek sleeps
04:06<@pparadis>g'nite irgeek :)
04:06<Peng_>irgeek: Good night! :)
04:06<amitz>nite irgeek
04:06<Peng_>irgeek & pparadis: Wait, are you in New Jersey yet?
04:07<@pparadis>been here for about a month now, actually
04:07<Peng_>pparadis: You should be asleep!
04:07<@pparadis>when i'm dead, maybe.
04:13<Peng_>When you're dead you'll be dead, not asleep.
04:13<Peng_>Unless you're undead, in which case why start sleeping then?
04:16<mig5>urmom sleeps with the undead
04:16<mig5>evening all
04:19<Peng_>mig5: Cute undead?
04:19<@pparadis>hell yeah, if they don't move well on their own power they'd better at least be cute.
04:20<Peng_>Are ghosts undead, or just physical beings like zombies?
04:20<@pparadis>ghosts are generally defined as being rather ethereal.
04:20<mig5>i thought ghosts were metaphysical?
04:20<mig5>there we go
04:21<@pparadis>although if one wanted reach out and touch someone, that could be kinda freaky in multiple senses.
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04:21<mig5>in a ..6th sense? :)
04:21<mig5>yeah, i went there
04:21<Peng_>Hmmm, I've seen cute ghosts, but not cute zombies.
04:22<Peng_>That almost happened in Zombies Calling, but... :D
04:22<Peng_>There was a bit of concept art, though.
04:22<mig5>i've seen a zombie march thing.. people dressed as zombies, some were cute
04:22<mig5>but yes, probably because they weren't real zombies
04:22<@pparadis>the problem with zombies is that parts tend to fall off, or in, at inconvenient moments.
04:22<mig5>like lepers
04:23<@pparadis>with leprosy of the fun parts.
04:23<Peng_>Vampires! Are vampires undead? Sort of? It depends?
04:23<Peng_>Lotsa cute vampires.
04:23<@pparadis>no, they're immortal.
04:23<mig5>don't tell me you've been watching that twilight shit
04:23<Peng_>But...Edward...the shiny.
04:24<Peng_>Or sparkles? I don't remember.
04:24<Peng_>Yeah, I think it's sparkles.
04:24<@pparadis>although their existence starts to suck _a lot_ after a few hundred dry years. and no, twilight sucks horribly, Anne Rice 4life.
04:24<mig5>Blade 3 was a cute film.. in that I thought a 3 year old wrote it
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04:25<@pparadis>please do not mention "Blade anything" in the context of vampire fiction, film or print.
04:25<Peng_>There have got to be _some_ undead vampires.
04:25<mig5>hmm can't change username in linode dashboard eh
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04:26<@pparadis>no, but there are some undead creatures that are _similar_ to vampires.
04:26<@pparadis>mig5: i made it that way in a fit of evil hand-rubbing just to perplex you.
04:26<@pparadis>not really, but it sounded good.
04:27<mig5>thats ok, evil hand-rubbing is what gives Linode its charm :)
04:28<mig5>the vampires of VPS
04:28<mig5>in the best possible way obviously
04:28<mig5>not in a Blade way
04:28<@pparadis>god no
04:29<mig5>i run Xen on my HP blades.. thats as close as it gets
04:29<@pparadis>i'm a naughty boy; i run kvm on a rig at my house.
04:29<mig5>i think i'm delirious. i live in swine flu capital (victoria australia) and i have a baaaad headcold.
04:29<@pparadis>caker is probably already planning my demise now.
04:30<checkers>leave me your linodes
04:30<checkers>both of you
04:30<@pparadis>depending on how you look at it, in terms of access, that could either be one or a whole freakin' lot of linodes.
04:30<mig5>don't encourage him
04:30<checkers>the latter please
04:30<@pparadis>mig5: if you start to see pigs flying, you'll know for sure.
04:31<amitz>Peng_: the point is, the world in some places is pretty dangerous up there. So please be considerate if you meet a foreign woman who seems a bit too paranoid. She is probably paranoid for a good reason.
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04:31<mig5>this is about the undead right?
04:31<@pparadis>convo must'
04:31<@pparadis>ve escaped container
04:32<amitz>uh, the topic has stalled..
04:32<mig5>oh right.. scrolled up
04:32<Peng_>amitz: If I meet any undead people, I'll try to be considerate, as long as they smell less than me.
04:32<mig5>and hold onto their bits
04:33<@pparadis>i assure you, they can't smell much.
04:33<@pparadis>the ol' olfactory sense is the first to go.
04:33<Peng_>Yeah, no bits. I don't mind blood much, as long as it's clean.
04:33<mig5>and we're back to vampires
04:33<@pparadis>heck, i don't care about bits. you ever clean an animal?
04:33<@pparadis>(referring to the inner portions)
04:33<@pparadis>guess what: we're animals too.
04:34<checkers>nah we're humans
04:34<@pparadis>i can take apart a human and compare individual organ structures to various other species if you like ;)
04:34<checkers>we don't have organs
04:35<@pparadis>we have pianos?
04:35<checkers>those things are just functionless extrusions into the three major spatial dimensions
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04:35<@pparadis>but what if i'd rather beawesomeinlieuof?
04:36<mig5>never understood that..
04:36<mig5>is it an order?
04:36<checkers>be awesome, OR DIE
04:37<mig5>i was gonna say, a threat.. beawesomeorelse
04:37<mig5>beundeadinstead has a nice rhyming thing going on
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04:43<mig5>i love my eee 1000HE
04:44<mig5>debian scares me when it starts to 'just work', especially on laptops :)
04:47<@pparadis>lenny tends to just work more often than not. i agree that this is somewhat scary.
04:48<amitz>I used to like ubuntu until their updates break my wifi and wine (granted wine is not in "main" repository). Now I use debian. But sometime in the future I'll probably go back to ubuntu again ;-)
04:48<amitz>pparadis: definitely the influence from ubuntu.
04:48<@pparadis>amitz: i'm quite accustomed to "make && make clean && make install" with madwifi.
04:49<@pparadis>reverse those first two.
04:49<mig5>i was used to installing the backported 2.6.29 sid kernel on laptops to get wifi working.. on my eee1000he, 2.6.26 just worked.. not the case for my eee 701SD or 900
04:49<amitz>pparadis: I use m-a, but that asides, it was about somehow madwifi and network manager not working or something like that.
04:49<@pparadis>ubuntu is debian testing, give or take.
04:50<mig5>i almost thought i'd installed ubuntu by accident.. til i realised i was using 50% less RAM than if that were the case :)
04:50<mig5>not enough regression either. man that's been bad on jaunty where i used it
04:51<amitz>I say ubuntu is the testing of debian testing. By the time all the bugs are ironed out, debian stable reaps the benefit :-p
04:51<amitz>of course it becomes out of date :-(
04:52<mig5>well it IS based on sid still isn't it? so unstable + ubuntu patches + regressive bugs :)
04:52<amitz>but nothing bleeding edge I need these days.
04:53<@pparadis>i equate "out of date" with "it works"
04:53<amitz>mig5: I believe so. What's neat about ubuntu is that the amount of howto out there.
04:53<mig5>pparadis: likewise
04:53<mig5>amitz: must say i've rarely searched. the debian wiki actually surprised me with its eeepc documentation
04:53<@pparadis>when i run "apt-get upgrade" on lenny, i'm not sweating.
04:54<mig5>hehe. well i sweat, but i'm a stresser :)
04:54<amitz>pparadis: that... I agree.
04:54<@pparadis>i also run rdiff-backup before any upgrades ;)
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04:59<chesty>cheater cheater pumpkin eater
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05:12<praetorian>had a wife and couldn't eat her
05:13<Peng_>Oh cripes, I registered "Peng_" on another network too.
05:14*Peng_ switches to Peng there.
05:14<amitz>maybe it's least problematic if you just change to Peng_ ... :-D
05:14<Peng_>tjfontaine: That's two networks where I'm using Peng now! Just the low-hanging fruit, though. The others would be more difficult.
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05:25<linbot>New news from forums: How to set up DNS for your Linode using ZoneEdit in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
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05:39<saurabh>hello every1
05:39<saurabh>can anyone tell me waht is swap image and what is it for?
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06:00<amitz>I have this feeling that "waht" is not a typo but a trendy way to say "what"..
06:00<chesty>ya tank so?
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06:01<amitz>s3r10usly 4sk1ng h3r3.
06:02<chesty>teh rulez on kool r complicated
06:03<amitz>hmm there should be urmom in this language..
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06:38<Oejet>Hi, I have some problems updating Fedora 9 to 10 using preupgrade-cli. Anyone else have experience with this?
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06:47<spearson>anyone around that could tell me what the hell this means:
06:50<Oejet>spearson: Did you try to run "yum-complete-transaction"?
06:50<Oejet>(As suggested in line 10)
06:51<spearson>yea there is no such command
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06:54<spearson>okie well i fixed it, nevermind! yum clean all && yum upgrade worked
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07:14<checkers>< Oejet> Hi, I have some problems updating Fedora 9 to 10 using preupgrade-cli <-- give up and cry
07:15<checkers>there's also a second way to upgrade, but I forget what it is
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07:17<Oejet>checkers: Here is the output:
07:18<checkers>cant help you
07:18<Oejet>It seemed to go through the 9 -> 11 upgrade fine, but after a reboot, it was as if nothing had happened.
07:19<Oejet>checkers: Ok, I might take your advice, though.
07:21<checkers>given fedora suggests reinstalling rather than upgrading I don't see why people keep using it on servers
07:22<krmdrms>updating kernel when do "yum update" doesnt *really* update kernel right? so updating kernel via yum doesnt change anything
07:22<encode> <--wow!
07:23<Oejet>That is probably true, but it would be nice to have the newer package repository.
07:23<encode>thats almost reason right there to upgrade to a 3gs
07:24<checkers>there were 2g iphones? :)
07:24<checkers>how quaint, and/or barbaric
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07:52<michaelmcandrew>i have an image that I use to start my new linodes
07:52<linbot>How to deploy a custom distro to your Linode:
07:54<michaelmcandrew>ok - but i can't help thinking it seems a waste to pay $20 a month for this
07:55<bliblok>It's well worth it for me.
07:55<mwalling>michaelmcandrew: why do you say that?
07:55<bliblok>But your situation may be different.
07:55<michaelmcandrew>sure, but do you know what i'm getting at? i mean, lets say i have 5 clients and i start them all off with the same (relatively stable) image
07:56<michaelmcandrew>i then have to have a sixth package that i need to have just sitting there ready to go for the new client
07:56<michaelmcandrew>sixth image
07:57<mwalling>above you're praising SH, which has the same pricepoint, but less resources, and now you're claiming that linode's not worth $20/mo, so no, i dont know what you're getting at at all
07:58<michaelmcandrew>it's mostly powered off not doing anything until i need to create a new linode. at which point i clone it on to the a new linode and then it becomes dormant
07:59<michaelmcandrew>just trying to work out the best way to use linode :)
07:59<mario>if you don't like it, don't sign up
07:59<mario>simple as that
07:59<mario>no need to bash
07:59<bliblok>michaelmcandrew: Do you really need to have one node per client?
07:59<michaelmcandrew>i'm not saying it's not worth $20
07:59<michaelmcandrew>or bashing linode
08:00<mwalling>michaelmcandrew: you need to have a disk image in standby on a linode?
08:00<mwalling>if you can shrink it, you could just add it as an image to one of your existing linodes and only pay the storage cost
08:01<mwalling>also, the backup service might interest you when it comes out of beta
08:01<michaelmcandrew>mwailing: actually that's what i've done. made it half the size so i can have two images on one linode.
08:01<amitz>hmm I should probably sell out DOS hosting. One $20 linode can easily get me hundreds of DOS..
08:02<HoopyCat>amitz: ambigious acronym there ;-)
08:02<amitz>uh...right :-p
08:03<michaelmcandrew>the one problem with that is every now and again i have to shut down the linode that the image it on to make changes to it, so i can't use it for anything that needs to be up 100% of the time
08:03<HoopyCat>michaelmcandrew: you could get a new linode, make the necessary changes, clone the image back to its safehouse, then delete the new linode
08:04<mario>michaelmcandrew: if you need something up 100%, you have the resources to do it, and it costs unlimited amount of money :P
08:04<michaelmcandrew>HoopyCat: Good idea - and I would only be charged pro rata for that extra day on the new linode, right?
08:04<mwalling>my lastname isnt wailing.
08:05<michaelmcandrew>oops, sorry
08:05<mwalling>friggin telemarketers
08:05<HoopyCat>michaelmcandrew: yup... you'd get a refund on your linode account for the unused days
08:05<michaelmcandrew>mario - i mean ~100% like a client's website
08:06<michaelmcandrew>ok, thanks for the advice
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08:08<HoopyCat>and remember... if the linode staff got cranky when people add/remove linodes frequently, they wouldn't have made it so dang easy! (TM)
08:08*HoopyCat sets it, and forgets it
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08:12<michaelmcandrew>HoopyCat: i think i am on the way to having one less linode and saving $20 a month, which is good, but...
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08:13<michaelmcandrew>I get the warning "Your Linode is currently running. It should be shut down before performing a disk copy." when i go to copy the image
08:14<michaelmcandrew>can i ignore that if the image isn't being used in the currently booted Configuration Profiles
08:14<HoopyCat>if the image is not mounted read/write, it's (unless i'm horribly mistaken) safe
08:15<michaelmcandrew>great, thanks
08:15<HoopyCat>i've done it with a filesystem mounted read-only, which is probably about as hot as you wanna trot
08:16<michaelmcandrew>that's pretty hot trotting :p
08:16<michaelmcandrew>cheers for the tips
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08:18<michaelmcandrew>Am now saving $20 a month - great!
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08:19<HoopyCat>michaelmcandrew: built a new linode to replace my old linode, and that's how i moved /home over. seemed the most efficient way to move 4.5GB of crap while keeping everything up and running :-)
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08:30<HoopyCat>"Robert P. Hobbins, 53, and Steven R. Hobbins, 19, were charged with the possession of child pornography." now there's a rare father/son bonding activity
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08:33<JoeK6>i turned on the vacuum and i blew the breaker up
08:33<JoeK6>for this room -.-
08:34<HoopyCat>JoeK6: as in, physical destruction of the breaker? whew, been awhile since i've done that
08:35<JoeK6>of course
08:35<JoeK6>melted it
08:35<X-LP>does it suck the carpet right off of the ground?
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08:35<JoeK6>i have to push my body weight into the vacuum to get it to move when its sucking at the carpet
08:35-!-JoeK6 is now known as JoeK
08:35<HoopyCat>i have to push my body weight into urmom to... oh, hell, that's just getting lewd
08:36<JoeK>you would fall down :p
08:36<JoeK>does anybody have expierence with setting up a socks4/5 proxy?
08:36<HoopyCat>JoeK: i am required by professional ethics and safety considerations to implore you to contact a licensed electrician to inspect and repair the damaged equipment and to not attempt repairs yourself
08:37<JoeK>i fixed it maself kthx
08:37<HoopyCat>JoeK: well, i didn't say *i*'d call a licensed electrician, now did i? :-)
08:37<HoopyCat>JoeK: closest i've come to setting up a socks proxy is using ssh's built-in socksotron
08:38<JoeK>i just need any orking proxy that lets me connect 7-8 clones to it
08:38<JoeK>and is set to my ip only
08:39<HoopyCat>JoeK: adding "-D 1234" to your ssh command line when sshing somewhere will create a socks proxy on localhost:1234 (assuming it is allowed by the server configuration)
08:40<JoeK>wait :+
08:40<JoeK>i did that, now do i just connect like a normal socks4?
08:42<HoopyCat>JoeK: executive summary of my breaker destruction: used to work on a 9am to 9pm helpdesk, on the 9am to 6pm shift; i had my own coffee pot, which i used to brew coffee at 9am. one day i traded my shift and came in for the 12pm to 9pm shift. unfortunately, there were twice as many people there at 12pm than there were at 9am, meaning ~twice as many computers running and ~twice as much load. turn coffee pot on, all computers suddenly go o
08:42<JoeK>what is it listening on ip wise?
08:42<HoopyCat>JoeK: yep, use localhost:1234 as a socks4 proxy and it should work
08:42<HoopyCat>or if you prefer IP addresses
08:42<JoeK>this means my home connection cant get to my vps :+
08:43<JoeK>-D <ip>:<port>
08:43<HoopyCat>JoeK: if your VPS is named, you would do ssh -D 1234
08:44<JoeK>i used the ip
08:44<HoopyCat>JoeK: then, on the machine from which you ssh'd, you can use as a socks proxy
08:44<JoeK>i binded to its local ip, and i got on from my hom
08:44<JoeK>it may not be secure, but still
08:45<HoopyCat>ok, just as long as you are aware that anything that can reach that IP address can now use it as a socks proxy
08:45<JoeK>im going to use a port nobody would think is a proxy
08:45<JoeK>such as the default ssl port ^_^
08:46<JoeK>or if i can find out how to open the pop3 port
08:46<HoopyCat>if the port number is less than 1024, you'd have to run the ssh client as root, which is probably silly
08:46<HoopyCat>also, security by obscurity is about as dumb as trickle-down economics
08:46<JoeK>im guessing theres no way i can run the ssh command in a nohup or similar command
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08:47<HoopyCat>JoeK: you could run it in screen
08:47<JoeK>which parameters would allow me to put in a pass then exit?
08:48<JoeK>the only time i used screen was when i did screen -dmS <name> <command>
08:48<JoeK>but that immediatly forks into backround
08:49<HoopyCat>well, ssh will have to be running for the tunnel to be up... check the man page to see what else there might be to offer
08:49<HoopyCat>JoeK: screen's a handy thing to learn
08:49<JoeK>i usually use nohup
08:49<JoeK>i think i got it o.o
08:50<HoopyCat>i usually use things intended to be daemons for daemonly tasks... i find that if i have to nohup it, it's probably going to stab me in the back somehow down the road
08:50<JoeK>nohup just forks something in the backround
08:51<JoeK>i hate screen -.- (:P)
08:51<JoeK>im looking at screen --help
08:52<HoopyCat>i know, but if that something isn't built to live in the background, it's probably missing some amount of security, stability, or autonomy that inspired the author to not spend two minutes making it daemonizable
08:53<JoeK>well lets say i drop connection at my home
08:53<JoeK>i dont want to have to login to my vps just to re-establish the tunnel
08:54<HoopyCat>JoeK: type "screen", then type ctrl-A and ?. that's pretty much all one needs. all screen commands start with ctrl-A... n goes to the next screen, c creates a new screen, 0 through 9 go to the first through tenth screens. d detaches. screen -RAD will reattach any screen you have running to your current terminal.
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08:57<HoopyCat>JoeK: nohup won't fix that, since the proxy is tunneling over the same ssh connection that just went down. there's some fancy stuff involving loops and ssh keys that can be done... i know Yaakov has a Shabbat configuration for his ssh client doing this :-)
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08:59<JoeK>i used screen to ssh to root
08:59<JoeK>i cant connect to proxy now, wierd
09:01<HoopyCat>there may be some additional restrictions in place when you ssh to a superuser account; i recommend not, under almost any routine or even emergency circumstances, sshing directly to the root account (or allowing ssh to the root account)
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09:05<HoopyCat>Today is Sweetmorn, the 25th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3175, and it is time for me to commence my daily ablutions. I shall return! At which point I'm sure this whole ssh/screen/SOCKS/nohup/root/privledged port stuff will have already become clear.
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09:38<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: fremont95 in System and Network Status <>
09:41<HoopyCat>""""At first I thought it was a tornado because they always say a tornado sounds like a train coming," said Jeff Tilley, a Register-Star employee who lives near the scene of the derailment."""
09:42<tjfontaine>"But it was sunny and gorgeous out, so I guess I should have realized"
09:42<HoopyCat><3 human brain
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09:45<HoopyCat>tjfontaine: actually, it was raining a lot. they suspect the train hitting a substantial puddle of water at speed might have something to do with it. that, of course, and the murphystatic field that often surrounds large quantities of explosives
09:48<linbot>New news from forums: CentOS Virtual Hosting Tutorial in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
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10:00<straterra>HoopyCat: robocop wasnt around..
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10:07<Sudar>Hi.. I want to setup log rotation for my apache log files
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10:07<Sudar>right now apache is writing to only one file..
10:14<HoopyCat>Sudar: which distribution are you running?
10:15<Sudar>Ubuntu 8.10
10:17<HoopyCat>Sudar: "logrotate" will do the magic automagically
10:17<Sudar>actually I have used the instructions given in this article
10:17<Sudar>to setup virtual hosts..
10:18<Sudar>I want to rotate the files on a daily basics and automatically compress and store them..
10:18<Alucard>still logrotate, but if you followed that then it won't do it automatically
10:19<Alucard>you can make it tho
10:19<Sudar>so basically I have to make apache pipe the log file to logrotate right?
10:20<HoopyCat>Sudar: look in /etc/logrotate.d
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10:20<HoopyCat>Sudar: logrotate runs automatically each morning and follows instructions in there
10:21<Sudar>@HoppyCat, I have multiple virtual hosts and log files for each host are in different folders..
10:21<Sudar>so do I have to add seperate entry for each virtual host?
10:22<Sudar>..Sorry guys, if my questions sound silly..
10:25<HoopyCat>Sudar: i think it can match wildcards, e.g. /home/*/weblogs/*.log
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10:30<HoopyCat>if that doesn't work and it doesn't like that, you can probably create another directory to store site-specific logrotate configs, mention it in /etc/logrotate.conf, and have your provisioning procedure create a logrotate configuration for each site while it's configuring apache stuff
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10:33<Sudar>thanks @HoopyCat will try that..
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10:35<HoopyCat><3 logrotate
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10:35<HoopyCat></3 roomba, which is bumping into things and making sounds that sound like the new mail notification
10:37<Sudar>@HoopyCat, will logrotate will be automatically called?
10:38<Alucard>it runs everyd ay
10:39<HoopyCat>Sudar: it's right there in /etc/cron.daily/, and will be run every morning (or thereabouts) while you sleep (assuming you're asleep at the time specified in /etc/crontab for cron.daily...)
10:39<HoopyCat>((it's like santa claus))
10:40<Sudar>ohh thanks :)
10:40<HoopyCat>Sudar: you can see its legacy in /var/log right now :-)
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11:03<Sudar>Is it possible to make logrotate to run as sudo?
11:03<Sudar>I am getting the following error error: error accessing /var/log/apache2: Permission denied
11:04<straterra>You mean, run as root?
11:05<Sudar>I am also getting this error when running logrotate in debug mode error: error creating state file /var/lib/logrotate/status: Permission denied
11:05<Alucard>doesn't it run as root by default?
11:05<Alucard>you seem to be manually running it? yes. you can sudo it.
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11:06<Alucard>the daily runs already run as root
11:07<Sudar>ohh okay.. I understand now. I was running in manually in debug (-d) mode. Thanks!
11:07<Alucard>/etc/cron.daily/logrotate is two lines: test -x /usr/sbin/logrotate || exit 0; /usr/sbin/logrotate /etc/logrotate.conf
11:08<Alucard>it's not a daemon or anything
11:09<Sudar>Is it possible to rename the log files (by appeneding date) while they are rotated?
11:09<Alucard>probably? see if that's in the docs
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11:12<Sudar>in the docs there is an option called "extention" but I am not sure whether it can accept dynamic parameter (like current date)
11:17<HoopyCat> dateext
11:17<HoopyCat> Archive old versions of log files adding a daily extension like YYYYMMDD instead of simply adding a number.
11:17<linbot>New news from forums: iptables rules in Linux Networking <>
11:19<Sudar>Thanks HoopyCat..
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13:15<Eudoxus>Can you guys help me make sense of these instructions?
13:16<Eudoxus>Why do they want to put into /etc/hostname, and why does /etc/hostname not exist on my node?
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13:19<tjfontaine>ooh factoid
13:19<tjfontaine>alias whatev
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13:20<HoopyCat>13:20 [@Astronautics:95] : NASA's ASTER satellite images the oldest material on Earth dated by man.
13:20<HoopyCat>NASA found pics of urmom!
13:22<Eudoxus>Is the hostname something that the public can see?
13:22*mwalling morans
13:22<tjfontaine>Eudoxus: did you read that *entire* webpage?
13:23<Eudoxus>tjfontaine: not yet no. one sec :)
13:24<HoopyCat>the hostname is generally considered to be freely-available information and many many services will use it as an identification
13:24<tjfontaine>'public' is a relative term
13:24<HoopyCat>praetorian: i am somewhat ashamed to admit how many times i've twittered during fire alarms
13:25<tjfontaine>but if you mean people and services outside of your server in general, the name will need to be defined in DNS
13:25<tjfontaine>second line of that webpage: "A system's hostname usually has a corresponding entry in the domain name system (DNS), but it doesn't necessarily have to. "
13:28<Eudoxus>by default I got this li-****
13:28<Eudoxus>is there a reason for me to change that?
13:28<Eudoxus>and can I change the "" part at all?
13:28<HoopyCat>also, "mail" is a particularly poor hostname for a machine, especially if there's other services on the machine and/or the possibility of additional machines handling mail in the future. pick a suitable and useful scheme for identifying machines across your sphere of influence and life will be good
13:28<HoopyCat>220 ESMTP Postfix cause I speak of the pompatus of love
13:28<tjfontaine>oooh weet, ooooh
13:28<HoopyCat>^--- works just fine ;-)
13:29<tjfontaine>AHHH I'll have to listen to that now
13:30<Eudoxus>HoopyCat: you just set "" part in the /etc/hosts? Does that automatically work fine given that I have my registrar mapped the domain to linode's nameservers?
13:30<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: you can leave it as is, or you can change it if you want. i generally do, because i like the PTR/hostname match and i hate numbers with a passion
13:30<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: well, i set the "framboise" part in /etc/hostname and i honestly can't remember where the hell it got the
13:31<HoopyCat>i did not change /etc/hosts at all
13:31<tjfontaine>/etc/resolv.conf mayhaps?
13:31<@irgeek> /etc/hosts gets 'x.x.x.x hostname' where x.x.x.x is your real IP.
13:32<HoopyCat>i have /etc/mailname set to, and /etc/resolv.conf has "search", so i suppose it's one of the two. i suspect the latter, as far as hostname -f goes
13:32<HoopyCat> Technically: The FQDN is the name gethostbyname(2) returns for the host name returned by gethostname(2). The DNS domain name is the part after the first dot.
13:32<HoopyCat>ok, so it's probably doing that from the PTR
13:33<HoopyCat>or... both.
13:33<@irgeek>HoopyCat: If DNS breaks, so will sudo.
13:33<HoopyCat>irgeek: if DNS breaks, IP is probably broken too
13:33<@irgeek>sudo gets very unhappy when it can't resolve the FQDN
13:33<Eudoxus>I'm just wondering, let's say I change my "short" hostname to foobar.
13:33<tjfontaine>among other thigns
13:33<Eudoxus>Will start working?
13:34<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: you have no control over, so no.
13:34<Eudoxus>Ah okay, so if I have my own domain, I must set the proper A records etc. to include "foobar" right? (the same place where "www" and "mail" records are)
13:35<Eudoxus>i'm too newbie
13:35<HoopyCat>i do agree that sudo (and everything else) will get hurrr stompa stompa angrrry if DNS breaks; i do, however, think i will run with the config as it is to see what happens, in the name of science
13:35<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: yup
13:36<mwalling>she blinded me with SCIENCE
13:36<Alucard>i will do science to it
13:36<tjfontaine>thank science
13:37*Eudoxus thinks all this is weird because it assumes you have one particular "main" domain.
13:37<Eudoxus>I use my node for many domains, and use apache to manage them
13:37<Eudoxus>do different "public_html" folders
13:37<Eudoxus>why assign a special domain name to one's machine?
13:37<tjfontaine>your system must identify itself as a unique system though
13:38<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: as an organization, you probably have a domain name
13:39<Eudoxus>HoopyCat: I suppose.... But shouldn't that domain name be used for the organization's website, instead of being an identifier for the machine itself?
13:39<HoopyCat>i do break from this a little bit in the name of vanity, and i should probably standardize on my "organization" domain name instead of my IRC domain name, but... well, eventually. at least i'm using it for point-to-point network links ;-)
13:39<tjfontaine>Eudoxus: your friends probably have many names for you, but when you introduce yourself you only call yourself by your real name
13:39<Eudoxus>One would think that, assuming that "" is your main website, that "" should also be a website.
13:39<tjfontaine>DNS is more than just for websites
13:40<mwalling>tjfontaine: lies
13:40<mwalling>tjfontaine: there is only 1 thing in the world
13:40<mwalling>and thats teh intarwebz
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13:41<tjfontaine>a DNS name is merely a mapping of a name to an IP address
13:41<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: and work just fine; those are currently handled by the machine that calls itself "framboise", yes, but a couple months back they were on a machine called "bluemoon". same with the different and the unrelated . i'm not entirely sure where goes right now, but i'll check
13:41*HoopyCat braces for impact of url checker scripts
13:41<tjfontaine>there can be many CNAME/A's pointing to one IP, but there can only be one reverse PTR for an IP
13:41<HoopyCat>ok, it goes to the default page :-)
13:42<Eudoxus>tjfontaine: ah ok. and whether or not we use apache to serve websites is actually an unrelated thing?
13:42<tjfontaine>the same logic is applied to your machine
13:42<Eudoxus>i.e. not too relevant?
13:42<tjfontaine>Eudoxus: yes, completely secondary
13:43<Eudoxus>Ok i see. But tell me then. Why do I need a hostname? Why can't I identify my machine only using instead of the longer (where "something" is the short hostname)
13:43<tjfontaine>because you don't operate the TLD
13:43<tjfontaine>tis about delegation
13:44<tjfontaine>(you could, but you shouldn't do that)
13:44<mwalling>Eudoxus: in the old days, your website was www.** (i doubt you own but people are lazy and demanded that they not have to type www
13:44<mwalling>because the internet is internet explorer
13:44<mwalling>there is no other internet
13:44<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: you could certainly call your machine, but it's not a good idea (but i violate this one too, in one case); what're you going to call the second machine? :-)
13:44<Eudoxus>heh, good point
13:45<tjfontaine>your system generally only uses this name when identifying itself for email
13:45<HoopyCat>i've got two linodes, two desktop machines, a server, a laptop, two routers, two point-to-point links, a couple IP telephones, a tivo, and... i think there's some other stuff out there
13:45<tjfontaine>(aside from internal uses)
13:45<tjfontaine>so when you're sending emails, your
13:45<tjfontaine>MTA will say you're, and then the remote mta will check to make sure you are who say you are
13:46<HoopyCat>they all live within one domain, so between them, i can just refer to "hennepin" or "tivo"; when i need to refer to them outside the "family", i can refer to them like ""
13:47<Eudoxus>this is starting to sink in
13:47<Eudoxus>what books have you guys read on this subject?
13:48<Eudoxus>in my experience books tend to be better intro then dry manuals
13:48<tjfontaine>I learned through experience mostly
13:48<Eudoxus>i c
13:48<tjfontaine>a few secondary tutorials back in the day
13:48<tjfontaine>you should probably able to find useful
13:49<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: a lot of RFCs, a lot of stupid questions, and having the privledge of essentially being an "apprentice" at various times
13:50<mwalling>i break shit
13:50<HoopyCat>seeing how other people do things, finding out why they do it that way, and seeing the benefits and problems it creates == priceless
13:52*Eudoxus just made an A/AAAA record for his domain. Is naming it the original name of "alpha"
13:53<@irgeek>Eudoxus: Once the A record propagates you can set the reverse DNS on the Network tab.
13:53<HoopyCat> <--- there's a standard for it too
13:54<mwalling>the LPM shouldnt catch nxdomains
13:54<HoopyCat>i do think "alpha" meets the requirements
13:54<@irgeek>It just says it couldn't find a match.
13:55<Eudoxus>HoopyCat: yeah it's just letters :)
13:55<tjfontaine>mwalling: s/catch/cache/
13:55<Eudoxus>irgeek: nice
13:56<mwalling>tjfontaine: beer.
13:56<tjfontaine>mwalling: dcc please
13:56<mwalling>13:56 DCC can't open file /home/mwalling/beer: No such file or directory
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13:58<HoopyCat>X-Generator: Custom Brewcrafters, Honeoye Falls, New York, USA
13:59<HoopyCat>... did that work? not sure if OFTC supports it
13:59<Turl>HoopyCat: you forgot the base6
13:59<Turl>damn, base6
13:59<Turl>base64 encoding
13:59<Turl>crappy keyboard :P
13:59<Eudoxus>Thank you all guys. Got me on the right track here.
14:05<tsp>I just found out that my computer had bad ram and replaced it. Meanwhile, while the ram was bad, I was doing a lot of work on files. Are they likely to be corrupted?
14:05<linbot>New news from forums: [ Poll ] Terminal color scheme? in /dev/random <>
14:08<HoopyCat>tsp: what OS/filesystem?
14:09<tsp>linux guest with ext3 on a vista host
14:09<HoopyCat>tsp: generally, most reputable filesystems will quickly come to the conclusion that there are shenanigans going on, freak out, and remount themselves read-only and/or read the riot act via kernel.emerg
14:09<tsp>I didn't get any errors at all, except for programs segfaulting
14:10<tsp>and my box turning off 3 or 4 seconds after I turned it on with just the bad ram stick in it
14:10<erikh>if you had bad ram, your VM should segfault
14:10<HoopyCat>tsp: buuuut i'd probably do a nice vigorous fsck and some spot-checking, perhaps even comparing hashes vs. backups
14:10<tsp>it was, a windows memory test app freaked out
14:11<HoopyCat>tsp: memtest86+ > *
14:11<tsp>I don't have a serial console etc set up
14:11<tsp>or I would have tried that
14:11<erikh>you can boot to cd with memtest on it
14:11<HoopyCat>a totally headless vista machine! quick, pull the other one
14:11<Eudoxus>changing a hostname won't mess up the current apache installation will it?
14:12<Eudoxus>or current installation of anything
14:12<tsp>heh, headless indeed
14:12<tsp>I'm blind so the cd boot wouldn't give me any useful output, and it can't beep on errors
14:12<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: eh, it shouldn't, but under advice of mwalling i'm not saying what i want to say about apache's coping skills ;-)
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14:13<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: he's drunk, cut him some slack
14:13<HoopyCat>tsp: ah! *facepalm* forgot about that. sorry.
14:14<tsp>I'm pretty sure that if 3 out of 4 ram modules work, and the last one starts doing weird things like looping the login sound or having the box turn off 5 seconds after it turns on, that that module is bad
14:17<HoopyCat>tsp: i've been known to isolate it down to a specific range of addresses and then cut those out on the kernel command line. why waste a whole stick? ;-) however, memory has become less expensive in recent years...
14:17<tsp>I can't do that on a vista host
14:18<tsp>and it was within the 14 day exchange policy at my store, so easily solvable
14:19<tsp>I'm stuck with 3.5gb until I go 64 bit though
14:20<HoopyCat>tsp: i think i'm just lazy, really... mostly this was with old systems, and i didn't want to derack them and do the RAM tango... patch around the bad RAM, open a ticket to replace the server, go back to watching matlock reruns. however, yeah, doesn't work with windows.
14:21<HoopyCat>disclaimer: i hold a special grudge against windows, every time it rains... argh, titanium leg implant, argh
14:21<tsp>windows as a workstation OS isn't too bad
14:21*irgeek doesn't agree
14:22<tsp>I can be in any app, hit a key and winamp starts playing for example
14:23<HoopyCat>nod... only reason i went ubuntu here is because i was nearing the point of having to reinstall windows anyway, and... well, my built-in DVD drive failed so i'm using a firewire CD-RW and i didn't want to spend the $15 on a new one, so ubuntu wins
14:23<tsp>you guys have it easy, just click click click
14:23<Eudoxus>heh ok
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15:03<r3z>Any of you use Magic Jack?
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15:08<HoopyCat>used to, but my stomach can't handle the whiskey as well as it ought to any more :-/
15:09<Eudoxus>Hmm, is an A/AAAA Record not enough to set up a reverse DNS?
15:09<Eudoxus>is CNAME required too?
15:09<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: an A record will suffice, plus the PTR in the "other" direction
15:10<Eudoxus>ok i guess it hasn't propagated yet
15:10<Eudoxus>i will wait
15:10<bd_>note: you can't technically have a CNAME and an A record on the same name
15:11<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: the timescales involved in reverse DNS configuration aren't quite geologic, but it can feel like it. what's happening when you try?
15:12<Eudoxus>when I try to set up the reverse DNS? it just says it cannot be found :)
15:12<Eudoxus>the A record probably hasn't propagated
15:12<mwalling>you have forward working
15:13<@caker>Eudoxus: try now
15:14<Eudoxus>caker, huh? are you messing with something behind the scenes?
15:14<Eudoxus>what did you do? :)
15:14<Pryon>that's his thing
15:14<Eudoxus>ok i'll try
15:14<bd_>Eudoxus: probably flushed the cache :)
15:14<mwalling>irgeek: i thought you said the lpm doesnt cache?
15:14<@caker>flushed the .. yup
15:14<@irgeek>mwalling: I didn't say that...
15:14<Eudoxus>caker: heh worked now
15:15<HoopyCat>Verily I say unto thee, the Heavens have burst forth, and the blessed hand of Caker carried Eudoxus 0 days, 22:32:11 toward level 42.
15:15<mwalling>13:54 < mwalling> the LPM shouldnt catch nxdomains
15:15<mwalling>13:54 <@irgeek> It just says it couldn't find a match.
15:15<HoopyCat>mwalling: s/catch/cache/
15:15*irgeek read that as 'should catch' as in tell you that's what happaned
15:15<HoopyCat>mwalling: it DOES catch nxdomains, by saying it couldn't find a match
15:15<Eudoxus>do admins dig into our nodes at will? how secure is our stuff really?
15:15<bd_>caker: perhaps the RDNS stuff should do the recursion itself ala dig +trace, to completely avoid caching issues? :)
15:16<@irgeek>Eudoxus: No
15:16<mwalling>Eudoxus: the staff going into the website and flushing the website's dns cache means they go into your linode?
15:16<@irgeek>The DNS resovler for the rDNS stuff isn't on your node.
15:16<Eudoxus>heh ok
15:16<@irgeek>bd_: DDoSable
15:16<bd_>irgeek: oh?
15:16<mwalling>irgeek: then add rate limiting into the lpm
15:17<bd_>irgeek: a single customer account has no reason to issue more than one at once
15:17<mwalling>and how would you ddos from the lpm?
15:17<@irgeek>Has no reason != won't
15:17<bd_>and I suppose you could cache the root domain at least
15:17<SelfishMan>mwalling: Hitting F5 really fast?
15:17<bd_>irgeek: has no reason = you can deny it in this case :)
15:17<@caker>[ LAUNCH NUKES ]
15:17<@irgeek>A dig +trace is going to take measurable time.
15:18<mwalling>so? better results too
15:18<SelfishMan>caker: You can't use the LPM to launch nukes. It's against the Java EULA
15:18<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: in general, linode staff won't touch your stuff. once in awhile they'll watch the console with your consent, or look at the console/console log to assist with a trouble ticket, but generally speaking they've got about as much willingness to futz with your junk as a prudent landlord
15:18<bd_>besides, this is already possible then - you can create your own domain, have it do a RDNS query against and bounce it across eight servers. Then repeat for some other unique prefixes
15:18<bd_>Equal potential for abuse, if abuse is the goal
15:18<mwalling>HoopyCat: they throw rocks at you?
15:19<HoopyCat>mwalling: your landlord != prudent
15:19<Eudoxus>HoopyCat: i hope so :)
15:19<HoopyCat>mwalling: also, you're drunk and this channel is logged
15:19<mwalling>HoopyCat: its worn off, and so?
15:19<@irgeek>Eudoxus: There are a lot of Linodes and we've got more important things to do than poke around inside them.
15:19<HoopyCat>mwalling: just making sure ;-)
15:19<bd_>For extra fun, have the nameservers for and etc wait a few seconds before responding :)
15:19<Eudoxus>good point :D
15:19<mwalling>HoopyCat: what i said is already in a police report :)
15:20<Eudoxus>don't tell me you wouldn't poke if you had Microsoft suddenly hosting their Windows source code repos on a node
15:20<@irgeek>How would we know they did that?
15:21<Eudoxus>rumours on the internets :)
15:21<bd_>because rumors are a great reason to expose yourself to liability :)
15:21<HoopyCat>linode has absolutely no idea that i store many GB of lesbian elevator control system bondage porn on my linode
15:22<@caker>HoopyCat: interested in beta testing the backup service?
15:22<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: I thought you only hosted furry porn?!? Or is that all you seed for torrents?
15:22<bd_>caker: Does that mean it's coming online again soon? :)
15:22<@caker>heh .. it is in dallas
15:23<@caker>the others are being prepped
15:23*SelfishMan raises hand for dallas
15:23<@caker>SelfishMan: ticket.
15:23<bd_>hmm, let me inform someone I know in dallas then :)
15:24<HoopyCat>caker: if it involves "scp -R /home/rtucker/porn" i already have that running per the instructions i received
15:24<SelfishMan>I have 5GB that changes every day only during the backup hours
15:24<SelfishMan>I would be curious how it handles that
15:24<bd_>caker: it works on UML nodes, right?
15:24<@caker>it should<tm>
15:24<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: you might want to change the backup hours
15:24<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: Hell no, best time for backups. I want to break it though
15:24<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: snrrk
15:25<@irgeek>Wouldn't the best time be *after* the data is finished changing?
15:25<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: should be pretty good, though; it snapshots n' stuff
15:25<bd_>SelfishMan: IIRC, if the LVM snapshot's capacity is exceeded, it'll back off and retry a bit later
15:25<SelfishMan>irgeek: No because the data only exists for those few hours and doesn't really exist anyway
15:26<@irgeek>Whoa. It's like, quantum data.
15:26<SelfishMan>It's TLD zone files being downloaded and then bounced to another server for actual processing
15:26<SelfishMan>irgeek: I prefer to think of them as "Schroedinger's zones"
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15:27<SelfishMan>You can see the times they download and then are uploaded by looking at the graphs for the node
15:30<HoopyCat>mmm, bad day:
15:38<@irgeek> says they'll pay $145 for my first-gen iPhone.
15:38<@irgeek>That would make my 3GS almost free.
15:39<@irgeek>Ok, $54 isn't almost free but it's really cheap.
15:40<mwalling>wow, tar|bzip2'd my old linode, 3.5 gigs
15:40<mwalling>thats including my slack-12.1 mirror
15:42<Peng_>Oooh, Dallas backup beta?
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15:46<straterra>ice ice baby
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15:51<Eudoxus>HoopyCat: How would you let Apache not have any site configured for even if is a "synonym" for your machine's IP?
15:52<Eudoxus>Even if I disable the default site, it just go to the next (alphabetically) enabled site
15:52<Eudoxus>perhaps it's not possible..
15:53<mwalling>just redirect it to something else
15:53<mwalling>if you dont want to have a site for it
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15:54<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: i have a "default" at the bottom that catches everything that isn't otherwise configured
15:54<Eudoxus>i see
15:54<Eudoxus>sounds good
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16:00<SelfishMan>Damn Montanans are idiots
16:01-!-tiny [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:01<fo0bar>people live in montana?
16:02<Peng_>SelfishMan: The entire population of Earth are idiots. Why are you singling out Montanans?
16:02<Eudoxus>In my /etc/hosts, should I change " localhost" to " myUnqualifiedName" or should I not modify this line at all?
16:02<HIghoS>Eudoxus: You can add to it, but it's probably best to keep localhost.
16:02<Peng_>Eudoxus: No, do that to your real IP. And put the FQDN first, I think.
16:03<SelfishMan>Peng_: Because a city a few miles away from me has decided to ask job applicants for usernames and passwords to social networking sites to "verify the integrity of the applicant"
16:03<mwalling>doesnt hosts(5) explain all this?
16:03<SelfishMan>I'm way behind on reading my feed. Just read yesterdays stuff
16:03<mwalling>SelfishMan: so they're seeing if you're an idiot?
16:07<Eudoxus>mwalling: man pages look daunting to me :S
16:07<HoopyCat>16:05 [@bssteph:7] my jones soda: "You will soon find something lost long ago." 1985 G1 Jetfire figure, I'm coming for ya buddy!!!
16:07<HoopyCat>16:05 [@magichat:3] is waiting for you
16:07<Peng_>SelfishMan: Awesome.
16:08<HoopyCat><3 coincidences
16:10<Eudoxus>I managed to change my RDNS in the Linode site. But "dig -x" still shows the old RDNS. This can only mean one thing: That I have to wait. Am I right? (It has been more than 1 hour btw.)
16:10-!-bssteph is now known as bss
16:10<mwalling>wait anouther 23
16:11<Eudoxus>all right :D
16:12<HoopyCat>bss: it's been reincarnated as a beer! inconceivable!
16:13<bss>lol, apparently
16:13<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: it's a weekend, so the letter containing the PTR request probably won't get handled by the clerk until monday, but once they get that, they're pretty quick about getting the card punched and in the next mainframe batch
16:14<HoopyCat>Eudoxus: (depends on the datacenter, of course)
16:14-!-mpardo [] has joined #linode
16:16<mpardo>I'm having a problem with VirtualHosts on a fresh centos/apache install
16:16<straterra>what problem
16:16<mpardo>it won't serve a page when DirectoryRoot is not /home/user/public_html
16:16<straterra>HoopyCat: still no key :/
16:17<mpardo>i want to it up like /home/user/public_html/
16:17<straterra>do you get an error?
16:17<mpardo>yea... hold on... i'll see if i can get the error up again
16:17-!-Tallken [] has joined #linode
16:24<mpardo>Okay nevermind i guess it works lol
16:30<mwalling>HoopyCat, JshWright:
16:33<HoopyCat>mwalling: "Congratulations to the New York Senate for moving forward with openness and accountability."
16:34-!-mpardo [] has quit [Quit: mpardo]
16:35<HoopyCat>mwalling: i did notice the senate web site > the assembly web site when i went to look for my local punching bags last week, tho
16:40<linbot>Why would you steal money from Linode when you didn't refer this person? ;_;
16:40<MJCS>anyone have any referal codes...a friend wants to sign up
16:40<Peng_>You mean that?
16:40<linbot>Why would you steal money from Linode when you didn't refer this person? ;_;
16:41<Peng_>MJCS: Don't YOU have a referral code?
16:41<MJCS>where would you get it
16:41<mwalling>MJCS: "My Profile"
16:41<MJCS>oh nice
16:42<Peng_>MJCS: Did you actually refer him, though? :D
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17:09<silverblade>jacksmith123 is spamming people on join.
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17:09<bd_>tjfontaine: ^
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17:15<mwalling>reported to #oftc
17:15<mwalling>since tj's gone
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17:25<Turl>jacksmith123: don't spam please
17:25<mwalling>Turl: its a bot
17:25<mwalling>Turl: also, 17:15 < mwalling> reported to #oftc
17:25<Turl>mwalling: thanks then
17:26-!-steephill [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:27<mwalling>also, i'm not sure how much good being nice to them is :)
17:27<Peng_>Be nice, then akill! :D
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17:32-!-jacksmith123 [] has quit [autokilled: This host violated network policy. If you feel an error has been made, please contact, thanks. (2009-06-20 21:32:42)]
17:37<HoopyCat>there goes slovenia
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17:41<larryE> Slowly though, Christa pulled her mouth away from his cock and
17:41<larryE>slowly rubbed it down her naked chest, between her breasts and gradually
17:41<larryE>across her flat, tight belly. Rising to her knees, she slowly lowered
17:41<larryE>herself down around the monster organ with a look of ecstatic glee on her
17:41<larryE>face. Curt couldn't say anything. It felt too good. He just hoped she'd
17:41<larryE>be able to handle what he became next...
17:41<larryE> Grinding slowly against her cunt, Curt watched as she devoured
17:41-!-mode/#linode [+b *!*larryE@24.7.105.*] by caker
17:41-!-larryE was kicked from #linode by caker [larryE]
17:41*Peng_ hugs caker.
17:41-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:41<Peng_>I think "organ" is such a funny word in that context.
17:42<Peng_>Actually, it's kind of a funny word anyway.
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17:46<silverblade>I like the way that reads toward the end
17:46<silverblade>watched as she devoured ... * caker
17:46<Peng_>Oh, alliterative names!
17:46<silverblade>nom nom nom
17:47<silverblade>Peng_: what about the phrase "grinding"? what if you were into DIY?
17:47<silverblade>momomomomonster organ-gan-gan...
17:48<Peng_>Organ grinding? I saw that on CSI once...
17:48<silverblade>"the monkey and the organ grinder"...
17:48<silverblade>which one is the monkey?
17:49<phennessy>Mmmmmm.. sun is out
17:51<Peng_>The burning sphere of cancer and dehydration?
17:51<phennessy>yes, it's been a rare sight lately
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18:01<amunite>i'm trying to install a ruby gem, but it freezes after showing "Bulk updating Gem source index for:", so i have to kill -9 the task. what am i doing wrong?
18:01<@caker>amunite: you need a recent gems version. Older ones suck memory
18:02<mwalling>you sure its frozen?
18:02<@caker>amunite: which version are you running?
18:02-!-Oli`` [~oli@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:02<amunite>that's what i've noticed, caker
18:02<amunite>wait a sec
18:02<@caker>um, yeah .. ones before 1.2 or so suck memory bigtime
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18:03<amunite>thanks a lot, caker
18:03<amunite>do i have to install 1.3.4 by hand?
18:04<amunite>never mind. already installing 1.3.4 :)
18:04<@caker>I dunno, do you? :)
18:05<amunite>"/usr/bin/gem:10: undefined method `manage_gems' for Gem:Module (NoMethodError)"
18:06<amunite>i think google is waiting
18:06<amunite>thanks for your help
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18:09<amunite>hi again. everything is working ok. i installed gem 1.3.4 by hand and applied this changes:
18:09<amunite>thanks again :)
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18:14<evs>congrats, you guys are famous
18:14<Peng_>Who's famous, and why?
18:15<Peng_>...Now would be a good time to have a browser running.
18:17<mwalling>it says "hack for freedom", and lists a linode ip address
18:17<mwalling>newark and...
18:17<mwalling>i think thats a dallas
18:17<Peng_>So the Newark network problems were due to Iranian intelligence operatives? :D
18:17<evs>hah, you insane geeks
18:18<mwalling>i could say something, but it would be quite innaproiate
18:18<mwalling>even for me
18:18<Peng_>Oh, a web browser!
18:19<evs>I browse dirty pictures with w3m.
18:20<Peng_>I browse dirty pictures with ELinks.
18:21<evs>You naughty little thang.
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18:31<jtsage>.qwk mail. I had totally forgotten.....
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19:05<tanto>i've got a headache :(
19:05<tanto>4 more hours left at work, too :(
19:06<HoopyCat>tanto: have you tried lish?
19:06*HoopyCat applies directly to console
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 20 19:14:57 2009
---Logopened Sat Jun 20 19:15:04 2009
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19:15-!-Irssi: #linode: Total of 268 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 264 normal]
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19:16<jetlag>WHAT HAPPEN
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19:16-!-Irssi: Join to #linode was synced in 96 secs
19:18<Peng_>Oh, that's interesting.
19:18<mwalling>slow netsplit?
19:18<mig5>yeah I guess
19:18<Peng_>Clogged tubes, maybe?
19:18<mig5>i blame ipv4
19:18<Peng_>THere didn't seem to be an actual netsplit.
19:19<mwalling>shed a server from rotation?
19:19-!-elektron [~eleketron@] has joined #linode
19:19<Peng_>Would that cause "Remote host closed the connection"?
19:19<elektron>So... someone saw my sign at the Iran rally?
19:19-!-Dreamr3 [] has joined #linode
19:19<mwalling>actually, no
19:19<mwalling>elektron: 18:14 < evs> congrats, you guys are famous
19:19<mwalling>18:15 < evs>
19:19<Peng_>Fitting IPv6 IPs on that sign would've been a pain. :D
19:20<mwalling>actually, no, was at Peng_
19:20<elektron>It was such a good idea to go, this cute girl talked to me about hacking, and gave me her card, she's a programmer too
19:20<Peng_>elektron: Isn't it smarter to piss off governments more anonymously?
19:21<elektron>Peng_ I work for a company that's going under, I'm being laid off in two weeks
19:21<elektron>they have a linode account
19:21<elektron>Also, I'm throwing a party in my boss's office
19:24-!-Eudoxus [] has quit [Quit: Eudoxus]
19:25<Peng_>How many nameservers can you stuff in /etc/resolv.conf?
19:25-!-Dreamr_3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25<Peng_>The manpage said 3 or 4, but I was hoping that's wrong. :D
19:26<Peng_>Cuz I have...5. :P
19:26<HoopyCat>Peng_: whatever MAXNS is; see resolv.h :-)
19:26<HoopyCat># define MAXNS 3 /* max # name servers we'll track */
19:27<HoopyCat>unrelatedly, this is funny: # define RES_MAXTIME 65535 /* Infinity, in milliseconds. */
19:27<Peng_>65,535? I knew all those larger numbers were lies!
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19:33<HoopyCat>Peng_: thanks for the question; i always wondered and thought it was more than three, but it is liberating to now know.
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19:35<linbot>New news from forums: Suggestion: Gentoo Portage and Package Mirrors in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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20:22<linbot>New news from forums: rejecting e-mail from my server in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
20:24<Nivex>!newercalc 65535 ms in s
20:24<linbot>Nivex: 65.54 seconds
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20:38<phennessy>FREE IRAN!!
20:39*phennessy ducks back into hiding
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20:49-!-mode/#linode [+o irgeek] by ChanServ
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21:14*elektron yawns
21:30<linbot>MJCS: 09:30 PM, June 20, 2009
21:30<MJCS>!time Iran
21:30<linbot>MJCS: Iran
21:31<jetlag>so my isp killed it's usenet server
21:32<MJCS>then use
21:32<evs>get a ipv6 tunnel
21:32<evs> offers free newsgroups
21:32<evs>and as it's v6, you basically have unlimited connections due to near unlimited ips
21:33<MJCS>I get 24Mbps from newshosting
21:33<phennessy>even paying for newsgroup access isn't that expensive
21:33<phennessy>less than the cost of linode
21:33<HoopyCat>back when we killed our usenet server at $UsedToWorkThere, i was saddened by the end of said era; i was even more saddened by the number of customers who complained
21:35<HoopyCat>(p.s. the number was 2)
21:35-!-Turl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:38<Pryon>I'm sad because the traffic on is so low
21:38<jetlag>newshosting costs too much
21:40<HoopyCat>man, four dishwasher loads today. crazy
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21:41<@tjfontaine>all spamming taken care of?
21:41-!-mode/#linode [-o tjfontaine] by tjfontaine
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21:45<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: <3
21:45<phennessy>we had two or three users when we shut our news server down too
21:45<phennessy>but we got permission to cname news to another school which we leafed from
21:46<phennessy>that only lasted so long though
21:46<HoopyCat>phennessy: oh, we just CNAME'd ours to
21:46<HoopyCat>... that, as well, only lasted so long.
21:46<phennessy>we use to have newsgroups for different classes and my boss wrote some cgi's to browse them like message boards
21:47<phennessy>back before "educational learning systems" became such a big racket (aka blackboard)
21:48<phennessy>something like that :)
21:49*StevenK twitches at the mention of blackboard
21:49<evs>blackboard sucks
21:49<HoopyCat>zomg, there's new ones of these since the last time i looked
21:49<phennessy>i'm glad my involvement in that is practically 0
21:49*HoopyCat prepares to use his daily lol quota
21:49<LordLandon>other people use blackboard? O.o
21:50<Hobbsee>ew, blackboard
21:50<Hobbsee>LordLandon: yeah. it's popular for uni's here :(
21:51<jetlag>anyone else use a pay usenet server?
21:51<phennessy>my coworker does
21:51<MJCS>i do
21:52<MJCS>for legal uses :p
21:52*tjfontaine does
21:52<tjfontaine>doesn't everyone want 100 years of retention?
21:52<HoopyCat>Hobbsee, the one we usually only see when someone has a tab complete fail when trying to type HockeyInJune[_] !
21:52<HoopyCat>err, HoopyCat!
21:53<phennessy>comcast use to have limited giganews access, but i think thats done now
21:53*Hobbsee bops HoopyCat over the head with a pile of snails
21:53*HoopyCat goes back to watching ST:TNG edits
21:53<Hobbsee>HoopyCat: besides, i' not talkign uch as y keyboard's carked it.
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21:55<LordLandon>I think what he's trying to say there, is that his 'm' key is broked.
21:55<tjfontaine>I think you're reading too much into it
21:56<Hobbsee>LordLandon: she. and it's m, r, and soeties c.
21:56-!-brainproxy [] has quit [Quit: brainproxy]
21:56<Hobbsee>and general screwiness with the rest of the
21:56<mwalling>1vs100 on xbl is... interesting
21:56<mwalling>i need a better tv
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22:13<linbot>New news from forums: telnet login problem in General Discussion <>
22:13-!-evs [~ev@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:15<Karrde>the new gnome-network-admin today (Debian Testing) removed network-manager-gnome. Now nm-applet is missing. How do I connect to a wireless network?
22:17<LordLandon>iwconfig C=
22:18<Karrde>I found a place in Network Admin to specify one wireless network. How do I get a list back like network-manager?
22:18<tjfontaine>bd_: zomg
22:18<Karrde>LordLandon: pretend I'm a clueless noob. because I want "just works" on my laptop.
22:18<Karrde>I'd like my gui back.
22:18<LordLandon>is wicd still available?
22:18<tjfontaine>hahah "just works" hahah "linux"
22:18<LordLandon>or.. what'sitcalled...
22:19<Karrde>never used it
22:20<bd_>tjfontaine: ?
22:21<LordLandon>check if it is
22:21<tjfontaine>bd_: telnet!
22:21<bd_>tjfontaine: yeah >_>;
22:21<HoopyCat>well, at least the poster isn't using FTP
22:22<bd_>HoopyCat: They are
22:22<HoopyCat>*clicks on link*
22:22<HoopyCat>brb, clocktower
22:23<tjfontaine>for to snipe?
22:25<HoopyCat>^--- hoopycam
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22:39<VolVE>evening all
22:39<VolVE>I was just about to ask if the newark DC was having latency issues, but my first hop out (comcast) is at ~640ms
22:40<VolVE>damn neighbors and their saturday-night porn hunts
22:40<Toba_>that would explain any issues you are having
22:40<chuck>VolVE: be tahnkful that you're on cable internet, i'm forced to tether to my phone and go over slow 3G right now xD
22:41<VolVE>jesus man, where are you?! is there no wifi nearby?
22:41<HoopyCat>try turning off your naphthaster and your bitturret and see if that makes ur winsock faster
22:41<VolVE>winsock... what memories
22:42<VolVE>random q: can scp/rsync issue commands? as in, I want to connect, tar some files, then copy them down... someone on freenode suggested I could accomplish it all with a single scp connection, hmm
22:43<phennessy>i can see four SSIDs from my house. none are open.
22:44-!-megatron27 [~megatron2@] has joined #linode
22:44<phennessy>strange how all their names are strangly similar but unique
22:45<phennessy>maybe some linksys randomization thing
22:45<VolVE>"l1nksys" and "l0nksys" ? ;)
22:45<chuck>VolVE: nope, no wifi! our neighbor that I usually "borrow" from has started hiding their SSID finally
22:45<megatron27>any of you guys outsource SMTP?
22:45<chuck>well, I assume that's it
22:45<chuck>they probably secured it, too
22:45<megatron27>know of a cheap and decent provider?
22:46<chuck>Google Apps?
22:46<HoopyCat>VolVE: well, you can recursively copy stuff via scp and then tar it up. not 100% sure about doing the tar first, though. something tells me *something* i've used does it, but it might've been an old-school FTP server
22:46<VolVE>megatron27: I use Google Apps for Domains... for free
22:46<erikh>use kismet
22:46<megatron27>okay cool, I'll try that first
22:46<VolVE>megatron27: oh and it works great :)
22:47<erikh>ssh user@host 'tar cvf - <files> | gzip -9c' >mytarfile.tar.gz
22:47<megatron27>each employee gets 25GB? wow
22:48<megatron27>oh that's the paid version heh
22:48<Karrde>LordLandon: I'm using wicd now, seems ok so far.
22:48<VolVE>erikh: but wouldn't that put mytarfile.tar.gz on the remote system, as opposed to pulling it down to the requesting server?
22:48<Karrde>why'd they have to break my gui hurr stompa stompa
22:48<chuck>still on the free version I think it's 12GB or something
22:48<erikh>VolVE: no, the stdout will get redirected to your machine, which then puts it in a file locally.
22:49<VolVE>erikh: how fascinating, thank you :)
22:49<chuck>nevermind, it's only 2.75GB ;-)
22:49<erikh>VolVE: you can do lots of neat redirection things with ssh
22:50<VolVE>erikh: I am a big fan of general redirection, but clearly this is my first experience with multiple machine usages :)
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22:54<erikh>yeah, it's really nice when you run out of disk and have to back up things in a jiffy
22:55<chuck>I should probably modify my backup scripts to work like that, it would probably save a little bandwidth
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22:57<VolVE>erikh: a thought; if I use your command for instance, but I want to nice it, would I put 'nice' in front of 'tar' only, or does the 'gzip' pipe target need a 'nice' too... ?
22:57<VolVE>(I'm overthinking thisI can tell)
22:57<erikh>probably both
22:57<erikh>since they'll have distinct pids
22:57<erikh>the gzip is probably the CPU eater
22:57<erikh>so you can probably get away with just that.
22:58<chuck>What does nice do?
22:58<erikh>chuck: adjust scheduling priority
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22:58<erikh>think of it as askign the process to 'play nice' instead of gobbling up all the CPU
22:59<VolVE>essentially makes it a lower priority so it doesn't steal resources from the server's regular purpouse
22:59<chuck>erikh: do you know if it's possible to create an archive with tar from standard input?
22:59<chuck>like, mysqldump shared_data | tar -magicoptionshere
22:59<erikh>you mean a file list?
22:59<erikh>oh, you just want to gzip there
22:59<erikh>mysqldump -u root database | gzip -9c
22:59<erikh>mysqldump -u root database | gzip -9c >myfile.gz
23:00<chuck>oh, I see
23:00<erikh>since it's only a single file
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23:01<chuck>what would be a good nice value to use for that?
23:03<erikh>sorry, my time to shine during our system maintenance just came up, i'll be nonresponsive for a while
23:03<VolVE>I never bother specifying values for nice
23:03<VolVE>good luck erikh, don't trip the breaker!
23:03<erikh>10 is the default
23:03<chuck>so nice -10 then :P
23:03-!-BP{k} [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:03<chuck>or is it opposite from what I think
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23:09<erikh>-10 is higher priority
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23:29<HoopyCat>in the unix, the lower number == the moar importants
23:29<mwalling>just remember that root is 0
23:29<HoopyCat>ur low mx get all the important mail, ur high mx get all the spam attempts
23:30<HoopyCat>ur low uid get haxxed if u run teh telnet
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23:31<branodn>hi all
23:31<@caker> o/
23:31<branodn>is anyone else getting kicked off of their ssh connection?
23:32<branodn>i get anywhere between a few seconds do a minute before i get kicked off
23:32<branodn>i was on all day until recently
23:32<mwalling>logs? network problems? keep alives?
23:32<branodn>i just wasn''t sure if there was someone who hacked into my system and kept kicking me off or what
23:32<@caker>branodn: if it was you that opened a ticket -- I looked at your console log -- there's a suspicious "NetworkManager" process spitting out messages
23:32<branodn>i was up all day until recently
23:33<HoopyCat>in less than one half hour, i will deploy zero-day buffer overflow exploit on all the clocks on the east coast! and then it will be SUMMER. but first i sleep
23:33<mwalling>HoopyCat: does that mean the senate will finish session?
23:33<linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log into the LPM. Lish's primary function is to allow you access to your server's console, even if networking is disabled.
23:34<@caker>branodn: --^
23:35<branodn>ok so network manager is the culprit?
23:35<@caker>I have no idea, but it certainly looks suspect to me
23:35<@caker>why run a network manager on a VPS anyhow?
23:35<erikh>s/a network manager/fedora/
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23:43<DephNet[Paul]>erikh, i run Fedora on mine
23:46-!-branodn [] has joined #linode
23:47<branodn>lol now it doesn't even bring the network up
23:49-!-elfgoh [] has joined #linode
23:50<branodn>ok so after that is set up network manager should be disabled, right?
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23:53<derek>IDENTIFY manbearpig32
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23:55<praetorian>Network Mangler
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23:56<derek03852>hey i'm pretty new to linux if anyone can help me out
23:56<linbot>Don't ask to ask; just ASK
23:56<bd_>also I think you pasted your password into the channel earlier
23:56<bd_>might want to change that
23:56<derek03852>i've set up ubuntu and logged in using ssh and installed apache, php
23:56<derek03852>no i was just typing shit to see if it worked, but thanks
23:57<derek03852>anyway, i'm trying to add a php file onto the server just to see if i have apache and php set up right
23:57<derek03852>but i can't figure out how to access the directory structure using ssh
23:58<mmlj4>ssh hostname
23:58<derek03852>and i know u could use ftp but i dont know how you would move the file to the right place from there
23:58<bd_>what are you using on your own computer?
23:58<mmlj4>but you're trying to upload a file?
23:58<derek03852>yeah or just create it remotely
23:58<mmlj4>scp file hostname:/path/
23:58<bd_>^ from the console, yeah
23:58<bd_>There's probably some shiny GUI thing but I don't use osx so I don't know
23:58<bd_>or sshfs
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23:59<derek03852>well what i mean is, when you install apache you have to upload your files to a specific folder right?
23:59<derek03852>like var/www/
---Logclosed Sun Jun 21 00:00:02 2009