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#linode IRC Logs for 2009-07-05

---Logopened Sun Jul 05 00:00:27 2009
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00:10<orudie>this chat is dead
00:10<orudie>caker, wake up
00:12<scorche|sh>dont wake the caker!
00:13<scorche|sh>dont fear the caker either
00:17<mwalling>what, is he your personal manslave?
00:18<mwalling>also, if he isnt, he should be drinking and not blowing himself up
00:45<pwnguin>is there a standard system of deploying websites via debian packages?
00:46<pwnguin>munin just installed to /var/www, but i see a sites-available, sites-enabled setup
01:29<checkers>I generally create a symlink to the distro default location from wherever I put the real webroot
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01:45*SelfishMan wonders why all the fireworks being sold at stands have porn names
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03:17<chuck>can linode's nameservers be used in /etc/resolv.conf for testing new settings before they've been propogated?
03:18<bob2>no need
03:19<bob2>but you could do that, but remember it won't resolve most names - only things that are actually using linode for dns hosting
03:19<chuck>ah, i see it there, thanks
03:20<chuck>bob2: by the way, is dns round robin a satisfactory way of load balancing, or is it cached too much
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03:21<bob2>probably ok for a sufficient number of users
03:21<bob2>(so that they're spread mostly evenly)
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03:29<Kyon3>Hello, I want to ask why I have nothing under /boot? But my ubuntu is running...
03:30<bob2>doesn't matter
03:30<Kyon3>How can I change the grub?
03:30<bob2>linode boots the kernel you select in the web interface
03:31<Kyon3>So where the kernel is stored in fact?
03:31<bob2>on the linode host
03:33<Kyon3>I want to ask: If I copy all partitions from slicehost, with same ubuntu 8.10 x64, is it safe?
03:34<Kyon3>I mean migration
03:35<Kyon3>Now, apache, mysql, ufw are all running, but I don't know if 100% successful, particular I worry about the kernel suffs
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03:37<Kyon3>I worry about the stuff under /lib/modules/2.6.18-xen/, don't know if somethings are missed
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03:41<bob2>don't use them
03:41<bob2>what modules would you want?
03:42<Kyon3>currently i have nothing inside /lib/modules/ folder, is it ok?
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03:45<checkers>can't you just copy over and test?
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03:52<Kyon3>for example, modprobe usbcore, it said: FATAL: Error inserting usbcore (/lib/modules/2.6.18-xen/kernel/drivers/usb/core/usbcore.ko): Invalid module format
03:53<bob2>why would you do that?
03:53<bob2>it's a vps, it has no usb ports
03:53<bob2>the linode kernels have almost anything you could want built in
03:54<Kyon3>yes, but it is just an example, I want to check if modules path is being set correctly.
03:54<bob2>you almost certainly can't load slicehost modules into a linode kernel
03:55<bob2>unless you really need to do somehting odd, just forget about modules
03:56<Kyon3>because when i rsync from slicehost to linode, i deleted the original lib/modules/, so you mean originally it is also empty?
03:57<Kyon3>then it is fine, thank you
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04:30<Canadia>holy shit
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04:48<booja>Canadia: not cool man
04:49<Canadia>it's pretty gross
04:49<Canadia>i don't understand how ppl can make vids like that
04:49<Canadia>i cn't even watch it cuz someone told me what it was about
04:55<A-KO>just when you thought you've seen everything on the internet--someone comes around and links something you haven't seen
04:56<A-KO>btw, someone should do that to that woman
04:56<A-KO>but anyways just wow at that site
04:57<Canadia>i agree
04:57<Canadia>Someone should do that to that creeper
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05:52<linbot>New news from forums: Lighttpd/chroot: "SSL: not enough entropy in the pool in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
05:54<Canadia>i need help :(
05:56<Canadia>Is anyone good with Wine and RealVNC?
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06:22<linbot>New news from forums: Lighttpd/chroot: SSL: not enough entropy in the pool in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
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08:28<amitz>oh, linode provides entropy? nice.
08:29<HoopyCat>mikegrb's mom is personally responsible for the impending heat death of the universe
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08:31<amitz>uh, super mom. And I just remember, IIRC, the child of chaos/entropy is the king of god..
08:31<amitz>chronos -> zeus? let me check wikipedia.
08:33-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has joined #linode
08:36<amitz>hmm not analogous enough to make witty comments out of it :-)
08:36<HoopyCat>you're not trying hard enough ;-)
08:39<amitz>the analogy exist but not funny enough. Need more spice :-)
08:41<amitz>the more I read about mythology, the more I realized they're not bedtime stories material in it's entirety. Too many R rated sub-stories.
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08:48<HoopyCat>amitz: our mythologies tend to reflect our natures, whether bedtime-story material or not. after all, if the gods eviscerate cats or demand that a father offer up his live daughter as a burnt offering, it's perfectly reasonable that we may do the same, right? :-)
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08:54<mysty>hello folks - is the linod manager login working OK? Im sure Ive got the right password but...
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08:56<HoopyCat>mysty: hmm, working ok for me... is it just giving you an incorrect-password message, or is it saying something about whitelisting IP addresses?
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08:57<mysty>saying " Login incorrect or session timed-out" maybe blacklisted as I couldnt remember my root ssh password and failed there?
08:58<mysty>HoopyCat: so was going to reset via the linode manager
08:59<mysty>HoopyCat: jusat tried a different browser, so I guess I will use the reset feature, as long as things look OK at that end
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09:06<HoopyCat>mysty: ssh authentication to your linode won't impact the web interface, and if your IP isn't whitelisted, it'd tell you to check your mail and all that. so, yeah, sounds like a plain ol' incorrect username or password situation
09:07<HoopyCat>"Bombers and 40s available as well. All they need to add are paper bags with the store logo so you can sport your 40 in style while sipping on your porch or in your driveway."
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09:15<silverblade>hmm, does rsync just copy entire files if they have changed or can it copy bits of it...
09:15<cdlu>how would it know which bits to copy?
09:18<HoopyCat>silverblade: it does deltas, although i haven't looked fully into how it all works. ('tho i do have a huge-ass uncompressed tar file to which i append nightly... i could monitor that)
09:19<HoopyCat>cdlu: both sides agree on how to chunk up a file, then they compare checksums for each chunk; the chunks that differ get transferred
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09:20<cdlu>ah, clever. I was thikning the diffs would take longer and more data to run than just copying it, and simple checksums wouldn't tell you anything you didn't already know. :)
09:22<HoopyCat>cdlu: has a summary of the algorithm, which is even more clever than i thought
09:23<silverblade>I just wondered because I'm doing mysql dumps (nngghhh!) and obviously would like to avoid transferring the whole lot each night
09:23<silverblade>its not a huge db tho
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09:31<A-KO>rsync is quite nice
09:32<A-KO>silverblade: Generally what you'll want to do is enable the mysql binary log
09:33<A-KO>do a fresh dump of the database with the options to reset the binary log from that point, and then just transfer the binary log over
09:33<mysty>HoopyCat: thanks for confirming the ssh not impacting www side. Seem to have it back under control now. This all startted as I wanted to put all my passwords in keePass - have had an explosion recently. So now that I am writing them down, I cant confirm them / or have changed them without remembering, go figure ;)
09:33<A-KO> < silverblade for more information
09:34<A-KO> also
09:36<silverblade>A-KO: that page looks very wordy lol... im guessing that basically it keeps track of all transactions in a log which can later be replayed?
09:37<A-KO>so enable the binlog--then do a mysqldump with --delete-master-logs option, and then from then on out your mysql binary log will be from that point on
09:37<A-KO>and it will only binary log anything that changes or updates the tables
09:37<silverblade>how easy is it to restore?
09:38<A-KO>well you would use the mysqlbinlog command to play the commands back, and then mysql command to re-input those commands into the database
09:38<A-KO>So you would restore your master database dump first, then replay the binary logs with mysqlbinlog, and then import those transactions to the database with the "mysql" command
09:39<A-KO>honestly I haven't done the restore part I couldn't tell you exactly how well that works out :P (though I really should do this at some point)....but I have my backup scripts, once a month, dumps a master file and then uploads that to amazon s3, and then throughout the month it will upload the binary log.
09:39<silverblade>i see... well, that's certainly something i'll look into if my db gets to a larger size. i think atm it should be sufficient to do rsync of the text dump each night
09:39<silverblade>but thanks for the info :)
09:41<A-KO>well I"m just pointing out, the bin log is the only way to do incremental backups :P
09:41<A-KO>actually really at this point it's more of a differential backup in the method I described it...but you get the idea :P
09:42<A-KO>the binary log is also used for database replication
09:44<A-KO>also, in the event the database gets corrupted--like some app does a SQL injection and some moron clears out your tables.....You'll only have your full dump to go by restoration :P The binary log gets updated with every transaction that changes the database, so you can do a point-in-time restore back to exactly the point before the idiot screwed shit up
09:44<A-KO>and even restore everything afterwards as well :P
09:45<A-KO>in case users continued working on the database after that fact
09:48<fred>BP{k}: o/
09:48<linbot>New news from forums: Domain Name Resolving in General Discussion <>
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10:06<HoopyCat>mysty: i do the keepass thing too... it does keep backups on password changes, so once you get rolling, you can go back and see if/when you changed something :-)
10:07<A-KO>what's this?
10:07<A-KO>haven't tried that....
10:08<mysty>HoopyCat: makes me feel better. Thanks for the tip - I started all this as I am bed on painkillers at the moment and couldnt remember quite the way I used to. I think Ill store the keepass file in a truecrypt voilume in my dropbox :)
10:09<HoopyCat>mysty: humans generally suck at remembering and generating good passwords; there are some algorithms people use to make it easier, but eh, that's why i have a computer
10:10<mysty>HoopyCat: I use algorithms too, been fine till now. I must have changed something in a pique of being more secure ;)
10:11<HoopyCat>if i had git for my brain, it would be nice. however, i am a git.
10:11<mysty>HoopyCat: I persuaded my wife that meant pregnant camel for about 5 years
10:11<HoopyCat>i have a nasty tendency to suddenly forget my ATM PIN
10:11<HoopyCat>mysty: hee hee
10:12<mysty>HoopyCat: algo fir that too, three digits you like plus the last digit of the card, or something
10:13*mysty was in danger of preacing to the converted there
10:13<mysty>Kind of like the way keepass displays all the passwords in a way that you can see which onces comply with the algo etc
10:14<HoopyCat>mysty: eh, i just keep the "This Is Your Automatic ATM Machine Personal Identification PIN Number!" letter in an undisclosed secure location and refer to it when required
10:15<mysty>life is looking good. I rooted my own linode, have blasting music drowning out the crying baby next door, and have the first entries in keepass - time for a cider!
10:16<mysty>HoopyCat: wow, I could never remembebr the auto generated ATM ones - always change them
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10:16<Yaakov> _ _ _____ _ _ ___
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10:16<Yaakov>| |_| | _| | | | | | | | |
10:16<Yaakov>| _ | |___| |___| |__| |_| |
10:16<Yaakov>|_| |_|_____|_____|_____\___/
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10:17<Yaakov>Use Guest32, it will have a smaller memory footprint.
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10:19<HoopyCat>Yaakov: you know it's a party when the figlet comes out
10:20<Yaakov>Oh yes.
10:20<HoopyCat>mysty: the problem with changing them is that i no longer have the little piece of paper with the auto-generated one :-)
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10:22<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Just set it to the first, third, penultimate and last digits of the product of the pairs of digits in the number.
10:23<mysty>HoopyCat: lets say your magic number is 999 then you could just take the last digit of the card and prepend it to your magic numberr to have a different PIN for all cards, in at least a basic way x999, 4999, 8999 etc
10:23<Yaakov>Then you can quickly do the math in your head!
10:23<mysty>Yaakov: nice!
10:24<Yaakov>HoopyCat is an idiot savant.
10:24<mysty>PIN security is totally shit though. The amount of cash VISA writes off a year is staggering
10:25<HoopyCat>s/VISA/the merchants/
10:26<HoopyCat>i only have two cards with useful PINs, and i've already given up all hope of ever remembering one of them (which is fine; they're both the same bank), so i just have one to remember
10:26<mysty>they dont have the choice to write it off, they just pay visa
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10:27<mysty>better without the plastic anyway
10:27<A-KO>debit/bank cards are fine
10:27<A-KO>a visa-backed debit card is good
10:27<A-KO>unless you travel internationally then you might have some issue with that
10:28<HoopyCat>fun thing is my financial institution doesn't do pin-based point of sale transactions, so it's not even that big an issue
10:28<Yaakov>HoopyCat: On infrequently used cards I write the pin on the back.
10:28<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Encrypted, of course.
10:29<Yaakov>I use a combination of non-standard orthography and obscurity (more that four figures).
10:29<HoopyCat>A-KO: the card in question *only* has a mastercard logo, which isn't a problem within the US, but canadian ATMs generally don't support the *mastercard* network. so, for the places we go in canada, we have a quick reference of places the card will work
10:30<megatron27_>Visa-backed debit cards may not work internationally?
10:30<A-KO>yeah....I had a weird problem in Quebec as well with my visa-backed bank wouldn't work for some things, but my CC (also VISA) worked in the same spot..
10:30<A-KO>so it was kind of a toss up as to when the card worked
10:31<HoopyCat>A-KO: check the logos. and when in doubt, there's a damn fine pub in hamilton, ontario where my card works fine...
10:31<HoopyCat>FWIW, one of my former coworkers (with the same credit union) moved to costa rica for awhile and reported no problems whatsoever using his card at ATMs down there, so it may well just be canada
10:31<A-KO>that's true
10:31<megatron27_>that kind of sucks because I've been planning on replacing my credit card with one of those
10:32<A-KO>megatron27_: for the most part it did work for some minor situations
10:32<A-KO>I think I tried to buy gas on it
10:32<A-KO>and it didn't work
10:32<A-KO>but the CC did
10:32<A-KO>both visa...
10:32<Yaakov>I have no credit cards.
10:32<Yaakov>Gave them up a few years ago.
10:32<A-KO>that could change though, I's been about.....2-3 years
10:32<A-KO>I've got 1 CC
10:32<A-KO>just 1
10:32<A-KO>it helps
10:32<Yaakov>I have four different debit cards, though.
10:32<A-KO>as long as you use them responsibly
10:33<HoopyCat>megatron27_: in signature-based mode, i've heard of no problems (aside from anti-fraud mechanisms tripping out). but yeah, pin-based mode can be interesting due to the wide variety of networks that aren't mastercard/visa
10:33<Yaakov>Two from my credit union, one from Orange, and one from PayPal
10:33<A-KO>I should get a paypay debit card...
10:33<A-KO>it would make it easier than transferring to the bank and waiting...
10:34<Yaakov>It's great, I have instant access to PayPal payments.
10:34<HoopyCat>i am continually -- and successfully -- reducing the credit card situation down to just one, for travel and emergencies. "emergencies" is unfortunately a big word.
10:34<A-KO>ha HoopyCat
10:34<A-KO>I know exactly how that goes
10:34<A-KO>when shit hits the fan--it usually hits
10:34<A-KO>pretty hard...
10:34<megatron27_>does your bank charge an annual fee for the use of the Visa debit card? as far as I can tell mine doesn't, but I'm yet to activate it
10:34<HoopyCat>travel on a debit card sucks
10:35<A-KO>mine doesn't
10:36<A-KO>no annual fees here I think most banks in the US offer some sort of major CC-backed debit now
10:36<A-KO>which one depends on your bank
10:36<A-KO>but BOA is VISA
10:36<HoopyCat>my credit union does not charge an annual fee for use of their mastercard debit card; they recover the costs by charging $1 per ATM transaction (on the ATMs that aren't their own), $1 per international transaction, and by declining PIN-based point-of-sale transactions (e.g. answering "debit" to the "debit or credit" question)
10:37<A-KO>the only thing that pisses me off is the fact that some smaller stores want a minimum payment amount for use of a card
10:37*megatron27_ is trying to figure out which Javascript engine Joyent is using on the server
10:37<A-KO>which I think is against accepting that card's policy
10:37<A-KO>I know VISA allows you to report businesses that do that
10:37<HoopyCat>they actually charge no monthly/annual account maintenance fees at all, which is great for bringing the joy of banking to the masses
10:38<A-KO>yeah I have no fees either.....
10:38<A-KO>haven't since I opened an account in 2002....
10:38<A-KO>well, I have the whole ATM fee thing
10:38<A-KO>but that's pretty much any bank/anywhere that does that
10:38<A-KO>I think some might give you X amount of transactions for free
10:38<A-KO>but you still pay the fee to the other bank
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10:40<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Check out the Orange accounts.
10:40<HoopyCat>A-KO: i don't feel too bad about merchants with a minimum-charge policy... the merchant bears the cost of the transaction, and it's a base fee plus a % of $ kind of thing, so below a particular amount...
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10:41<HoopyCat>Yaakov: i have, and i've considered it, but i really, really like our credit union and have no reason to switch, although it would make access to the emergency funds moar quick
10:42<Yaakov>We have both.
10:42<Yaakov>Our CU is pretty good. Small enough that I get good service.
10:43<Yaakov>The Orange account is for funds sequestration (for household and ongoing expenses).
10:44<A-KO>HoopyCat: It's not that I feel bad for them or not, it's that it's like.....when VISA/BOA communicate to me that I can use the card anywhere, and visa's policy is against minimum transaction fees--and I walk into a store that says they accept visa, I should be able to use it. The business should either accept visa or not....I wouldn't have a problem otherwise :P
10:45<A-KO>like if the store doesn't want to accept that policy, that's fine--but I shouldn't have to be penalized for it as the consumer.....
10:47<HoopyCat>Yaakov: nod... might still do it at some point. i am loathe to have another damned account, though :-)
10:47<Yaakov>I need to go shower.
10:48-!-Harry_Mudd [] has joined #linode
10:48<Harry_Mudd>help buffer
10:49<HoopyCat>A-KO: i see that end of it, too. i think it's a decision a business has to make, and they do have to realize it will turn away customers, especially if it's something like a cornerstore where there's a gas station nearby that will gladly put that Big Gulp on a debit card
10:50<HoopyCat>A-KO: ultimately, i think the canadian debit method would rectify that (the consumer pays the fee), but... well, like single-payer health care, it'd cause rioting
10:50-!-binel [] has joined #linode
10:52<HoopyCat>Harry_Mudd: apply liquid wax to floor; smooth with squeegie. plug buffer into standard wall outlet. hold the machine firmly and turn it on. move around floor in methodological fashion until floor is satisfactory; turn machine off and unplug. allow floor to dry
10:52-!-web_linux [] has joined #linode
10:52<Yaakov>BUFFER ON
10:52<web_linux>Hi all
10:53-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.53=-]
10:53<HoopyCat>You turn the buffer on. It starts moving around wildly, bumping into the walls and making terrible noise. The cat runs east.
10:53<HoopyCat>good morning, web_linux!
10:54<Yaakov>Hello, web_linux.
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11:02<Yaakov>I am going to go attend to my toilette!
11:02<HoopyCat>Yaakov: please do
11:03<Yaakov>I will return looking beautiful, as you all expect.
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11:37<Yaakov>I am back, meticulously groomed and impeccably dressed.
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11:46<Yaakov>Yet another hype engine:
11:46<HoopyCat>Yaakov: "real-time search engine"?
11:47<Yaakov>It's broken, too.
11:47<Yaakov>It has accessed my robots.txt and / about 100 times and it is still at it.
11:48<Yaakov>Still at it.
11:48<Yaakov>Accessing my robots.txt about 50 times a minute isn't exactly nice behavior.
11:49<bd_>proxy their traffic right back at them :3
11:49<Yaakov>I think it gave up.
11:49<Yaakov>robots.txt, /, robots.txt, /, ...
11:50<bd_>anyway this is how they implement real-time searching: re-crawl every url in their index every second :)
11:51<Yaakov>It did it for five minute at about a query a second.
11:52<Yaakov>Fortunately, / on my server is a very small static page.
11:52<Yaakov>And my site is "badly designed" so the link on they page is ignored by search engines. (I just have lousy SEO skills...)
11:56<Yaakov>OK, it was once every 2 seconds, on average, looking at the logs.
11:56-!-memenode [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:56<Yaakov>I predict abject failure for this search engine, real-time failure, perhaps.
11:57<Yaakov>I need to set up a flexible redirect thingy based on referrer.
11:57<aaronpk>i like bd_'s idea of redirecting their traffic back to their own server
11:58<Yaakov>I think I might stand up a tarpit for errant search engines.
11:58<Yaakov>The number of hits wasn't very high altogether, they wouldn't notice it.
11:58<Yaakov>But I could set up a tarpit and keep them busy for a while, while I giggle.
11:59<Peng_>If they limit concurrent requests per site, a tarpit might not hurt much.
11:59<Peng_>OTOH, they're dumb enough to request robots.txt hundreds of times....
11:59<Peng_>Were they requesting other pages too, or just robots.txt?
12:00<Yaakov>robots.txt and /
12:00<Yaakov>over and over
12:00<Yaakov>Check your logs for their referrer.
12:00<Yaakov>grep for
12:02<Yaakov>"Want to crawl my site? I accept PayPal! click here to learn more..."
12:03<HoopyCat>Yaakov: nothing on any of mah servers. maybe they just like printer pranks.
12:03<Yaakov>Well, this is the first time I saw them.
12:03<Yaakov>So maybe it is just a matter of time.
12:04<Peng_>I don't see any hits from them.
12:04<Yaakov>I am just special.
12:05<aaronpk>oh whoa i have some hits from them too, didn't expect that. started june 30
12:05<aaronpk>they were much more behaved on mine tho
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12:07<Yaakov>I suppose that my "badly designed" home page might confuse them.
12:07<Yaakov>Or something...
12:08<aaronpk>i think only a badly designed algorithm could cause them to request robots.txt repeatedly
12:08<Yaakov>Hmm... I could redirect them to Wikipedia.
12:09<Yaakov>Heh... That would certainly get me some traffic from their search results.
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12:15<Yaakov>I need to write a subscriber counting script.
12:15<Yaakov>Something that will give me a reasonable estimate of subecribers from the logs.
12:16<Yaakov>No, I need to look at a period of an hour and count atom/rss requests, and parse the useragent strings for those cases that list numbers.
12:17<Yaakov>Also, unique IP addresses.
12:17<Yaakov>I can eyeball it, but it would be nice to have a number.
12:18<opello>doesn't sound too bad; i'd think you could use awstats to do it though ... but maybe not
12:19<Yaakov>No, because the aggregators report number of subscribers.
12:19<Yaakov>One request represents 5 or 50, etc.
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12:21<Yaakov>It isn't really very difficult. I just have to decide on a methodology.
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12:25<andy>OK, verifying my log in by IP is pretty hot shit. Thanks, guys.
12:25<andy>I had never noticed, but I just switched my home net service, so of course I'm on a different IP.
12:25<andy>Well done.
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12:26<Yaakov>Yay, a non-complaint about the whitelise!
12:27<Yaakov>Yay, a non-complaint about the whitelist!
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13:02<straterra>I wish the 'stable' kernel was newer than 2.6.18 -_-
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13:09<HoopyCat>straterra: please see #kernelnewbies for information on how you can help fix the bugs in mainline kernel xen support! :-)
13:09<straterra>No thanks
13:09<tjfontaine>girl car
13:10<tjfontaine>I was going to work hard to bring it back to that, but I decided just to get to the point
13:10<tjfontaine>you're welcome
13:11<straterra>Now to find out why my mysql database is 3 gigs
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13:12<tjfontaine>ha ha
13:12<tjfontaine>storage engines rarely free diskspace when rows are deleted
13:13<tjfontaine>if you need to regain that diskspace you'll have to dump the db to a file, delete the storage files, and then reimport the db
13:13<straterra>I just wish i could easily see which databases were using all of the space
13:15<HoopyCat>straterra: i can see it now... commit d3adb33fc0ffeeb00b1301c812f00fc7c8b00b00, Author: Straterra <>, Fix all outstanding bugs in Xen support including the clock thing and the part where it bursts into flame once in awhile, Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds <>, Signed-off-by: Greg Kroah-Hartman <>
13:15<HoopyCat>aim high
13:15<straterra>"Deleted all Xen code, all problems fixed now"
13:15<HoopyCat>straterra: du in /var/lib/mysql might get you close
13:17<straterra>err, not really
13:17<straterra>The largest entry in that is 16 megs
13:17<straterra>yet.. /var/lib/mysql equals 2.8 gigs
13:18-!-ph^ [~ph^] has joined #linode
13:18<HoopyCat>straterra: by my math, therefore, you have over 175 tables :-)
13:18<straterra>binary logs
13:18<HoopyCat>oh ffs
13:19<pixsoul>hello, any news when backups will be available for everyone as a service (out of beta stage)?
13:19<tjfontaine>WIR :)
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13:19<straterra>HoopyCat: clearing the binary logs shrunk it to 57 megs
13:20<HoopyCat>pixsoul: no news yet; just entered beta in dallas a couple weeks back and they're back in newark as of last week, so i probably wouldn't camp out in line just yet :-)
13:20<HoopyCat>straterra: hooray! but now you won't be able to roll all the way back to the clinton administration :-)
13:20<Yaakov>Isn't the Straterra a new Mitsubishi model tagetting 20-something chicks, with 12 different choices of pink paint?
13:21<Yaakov>I LOVE YOU MAN
13:22*HoopyCat rolls back to 1998
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13:46*Damianz removes mikegrb from his ass again
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14:00<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's so charitable she donates her facial hair to charity! (831:2/0) [mroum]
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14:05<SelfishMan>!urmom vote up 831
14:05<linbot>SelfishMan: Voted 831 up [mrmuo]
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15:25<sysinfo>sysinfo ph^ ondrej arooni-mobile libervisco metaperl CWii peter_ apeiron hpj sc0field RiverRat krmdrms Guspaz elhippo binel Guest64 derek simeon Damianz Bass10 azaghal mysty Beirdo Redgore SpaceHobo mario_ booja Dreamr_3 praetorian VS_ChanLog HoopyCat Peng phennessy neh aaronyy chuck henderb wabz Yaakov G_work bss cr4z3d anderiv_ Aexoden1 randallman guinea-pig exor674 mattt Toba_ @tasaro jspiros rHn scorche|sh Mr_W Dave fuzzie G darkside1
15:25<sysinfo>sysinfo ph^ ondrej arooni-mobile libervisco metaperl CWii peter_ apeiron hpj sc0field RiverRat krmdrms Guspaz elhippo binel Guest64 derek simeon Damianz Bass10 azaghal mysty Beirdo Redgore SpaceHobo mario_ booja Dreamr_3 praetorian VS_ChanLog HoopyCat Peng phennessy neh aaronyy chuck henderb wabz Yaakov G_work bss cr4z3d anderiv_ Aexoden1 randallman guinea-pig exor674 mattt Toba_ @tasaro jspiros rHn scorche|sh Mr_W Dave fuzzie G darkside1
15:25*CWii gets his troll-b-gone
15:25<Damianz>/fwap sysinfo
15:25<bd_>tjfontaine: ^
15:26-!-jtaji [] has joined #linode
15:26<mysty>whaddat? hmm... zzzz
15:26<sysinfo>jtaji sysinfo ph^ ondrej arooni-mobile libervisco metaperl CWii peter_ apeiron hpj sc0field RiverRat krmdrms Guspaz elhippo binel Guest64 derek simeon Damianz Bass10 azaghal mysty Beirdo Redgore SpaceHobo mario_ booja Dreamr_3 praetorian VS_ChanLog HoopyCat Peng phennessy neh aaronyy chuck henderb wabz Yaakov G_work bss cr4z3d anderiv_ Aexoden1 randallman guinea-pig exor674 mattt Toba_ @tasaro jspiros rHn scorche|sh Mr_W Dave fuzzie G dark
15:26<sysinfo>jtaji sysinfo ph^ ondrej arooni-mobile libervisco metaperl CWii peter_ apeiron hpj sc0field RiverRat krmdrms Guspaz elhippo binel Guest64 derek simeon Damianz Bass10 azaghal mysty Beirdo Redgore SpaceHobo mario_ booja Dreamr_3 praetorian VS_ChanLog HoopyCat Peng phennessy neh aaronyy chuck henderb wabz Yaakov G_work bss cr4z3d anderiv_ Aexoden1 randallman guinea-pig exor674 mattt Toba_ @tasaro jspiros rHn scorche|sh Mr_W Dave fuzzie G dark
15:26-!-mode/#linode [+b *!*gfsfgf@*] by caker
15:26<Yaakov>Hello, caker.
15:26-!-peter_ [] has left #linode []
15:27<Damianz>Woo caker!
15:27-!-mysty [] has left #linode []
15:27-!-libervisco [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:27<azaghal>What in the world?
15:27<@caker>hello all
15:27<ondrej>what was that?
15:27<CWii>hey caker
15:28-!-Turl [] has joined #linode
15:28<ondrej>man. thanks for banning him.
15:28<linbot>azaghal: Yo momma's so fat, she must have been compiled with --fatroll-loops! (746:2/0) [moumr]
15:28<linbot>azaghal: Yo momma's so ugly Linode wouldn't go near her (827:0/2) [momur]
15:29-!-sysinfo [] has left #linode []
15:29-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
15:29<azaghal>Btw, how does Linode cope with Gentoo (given all the updates etc)?
15:29-!-derek [] has quit [Quit: derek]
15:29<Davuzz>an op around? (important! payment)
15:30*Damianz points to caker
15:30*caker points to the ticket system
15:30<Damianz>caker: ++
15:31<Yaakov>caker: How was your fourth?
15:31<mwalling>Davuzz: click on the support tab in your account
15:31<krmdrms>Davuzz login to linode manager -> support
15:32<@caker>Yaakov: kinda crappy. No feeling so hot past few days
15:32<Yaakov>Well, it was Shabbos, so it was very pleasant. Then, later, it was a war zone around here.
15:32<Yaakov>But, I must say I am distressed by news of your ilness.
15:33<Yaakov>I hope you are on the upside of the curve now.
15:33<mwalling>caker: need more booze
15:33<Davuzz>caker done :) ty
15:34<@caker>hopefully on the mend. I intentionally didn't travel this weekend so I could R&R&W (rest, relaxation, work) but so far the work thing hasn't panned out as much as I had hoped.
15:34<Yaakov>The R&R part is much more important.
15:34<HoopyCat>azaghal: i'd assume gentoo has some sort of system with which updates can be applied easily
15:34<Yaakov>A healthy caker is a useful caker.
15:34<@caker>API coming along nicely. Imma thinking Monday or Tuesday for initial test release :)
15:34<Yaakov>Yay, &c!
15:35<Yaakov>Is mikegrb working on the perl bindings?
15:35<@caker>Not yet. He's tasked with other things
15:35<HoopyCat>brown chicken brown cow
15:35<Yaakov>OK, well I did note with glee the return of backuping.
15:35<chargrill>what's this i see about backuping.
15:36-!-Estiercol [] has joined #linode
15:36<Yaakov>Newark has beta backuping in place.
15:36<chargrill>oh neat.
15:36<@caker>along with Dallas
15:36<Yaakov>So does Dallas, If I... yeah.
15:36<@caker>and Atlanta Real Soon Now<tm>
15:36<Yaakov>Woo, backuping everywhere!
15:36<chargrill>huh, i guess i'll need to check it out since i'm in dallas.
15:36<Estiercol>Tired of Niggggers and their monkeyshines? Then join us at! We are NOT White Supremacists! We welcome and respect all HUMAN RACES of all colors. That means Asians, Whites, non-Negroid Hispanics, Semites, Indians, etc are all welcome. Join us in the epic battle of Human vs Negro and help us defeat and put in its place the Feral Negro Beast.
15:37-!-mode/#linode [+b *!*BlackCrys@*] by caker
15:37-!-Estiercol was kicked from #linode by caker [Estiercol]
15:37<CWii>oh man
15:37<azaghal>HoopyCat: Well, in Gentoo you update by compiling new packages, so I'm curious how Linode tolerates increased usage.
15:37<CWii>It's just no stop today
15:37<Yaakov>I really, really, don't like those guys.
15:37<azaghal>What the heck
15:37<Yaakov>Time to set some preemptive bans in other places.
15:38*CWii creates ticket asking for the beacjup beta
15:38*CWii while improving typing
15:39<krmdrms>me too
15:39<CWii>I don't like the beach too much =P
15:40<CWii>Perfer my desk ;)
15:40<HoopyCat>azaghal: well, just make sure you don't swap-thrash and consider using -j4 so you're using all four cylinders and enjoy. :-)
15:40<azaghal>CWii: Keep practicing on typing :)
15:41<CWii>A b c d...
15:41<CWii> Doesn't it look homey?
15:42<krmdrms>Thats a huge case fan!
15:42<CWii>I know, 230mm =P
15:42-!-Tilton53 [] has joined #linode
15:43-!-Turl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:43<azaghal>CWii: Address not found here.
15:43-!-Damianz [~Damian@] has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02]
15:43<azaghal>Yep. Maybe slow DNS?
15:44<azaghal>Or recent?
15:44<HoopyCat>works fine for me
15:44<CWii>No, it's been there for over 2 months
15:44-!-Tilton53 [] has quit []
15:44-!-darkw [] has joined #linode
15:44<Yaakov>A little different approach.
15:44<CWii>Yaakov, I really would like a spacious desk, this desk used to be my fathers when he was a kid 9.9
15:45<darkw>hey i have a question... lets say i purchase a vps.... am i able to change the location later on if i decide to do so?
15:45<Yaakov>That's one of three desks, though only one other has computers on it.
15:45<chargrill>Yaakov: omg, you could control the space shuttle from that desk!@!
15:45<Yaakov>I do.
15:45<darkw>how much do they charge to change location?
15:45<@caker>darkw: $0,000,000,000,000,000.00
15:46<krmdrms>tidy Yaakov :p
15:46<darkw>ok ty
15:46<darkw>wait, how would i change it? i have to submit a ticket?
15:46<Yaakov>I try. I clean it once a month if it needs it or not.
15:46<@caker>darkw: yup
15:46<azaghal>Hm... This is weird. Dig on (which was reported as authorative for failed.
15:47<CWii>You know their DNS might be down and I have it cached.
15:48<azaghal>My ISP's DNS must be messed-up.
15:48<darkw>i had a linode in new jersey a few months ago.. it was awesome, never had any downtime.. i'm considering going texas... how good is the network there? is it as good as new jersey?
15:48<@caker>darkw: they're all great
15:48<darkw>figured you'd say that :p
15:49<darkw>ok i'll have to give it a try soon then
15:49<linbot>Yaakov: [dig] status: NOERROR | ;; ANSWER SECTION: 3600 IN A | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION
15:49<linbot>Yaakov: [dig] status: NOERROR | ;; ANSWER SECTION: 3562 IN CNAME | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION
15:49<azaghal>Using direct IP didn't help, though.
15:49<HoopyCat>darkw: they are, indeed, all great. no discernable differences aside from geographic location
15:50<linbot>Yaakov: [dig] status: NOERROR | ;; ANSWER SECTION: 3541 IN A | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION
15:50<darkw>i take it they use the same datacenter
15:50<azaghal>I'm in Dallas, works like a charm (although I have long response times, but that's because I'm accross the ocean ;)
15:50<darkw>or who is the texas datacenter?
15:51<Yaakov>I think Newark is the best! (But not for any reason.)
15:51<CWii>azaghal, Where are you?
15:51<HoopyCat>darkw: newark is NAC, dallas is theplanet
15:51<darkw>i know mine when i was in newark was good yaakov
15:51<Yaakov>Check for speed! Use that link above!
15:52<darkw>theplanet.. excellent choice too... definitely going for it then
15:52<darkw>just one question though.. irc processes allowed if i go texas? i was certain that theplanet didnt allow irc
15:52<MJCS>i believe so
15:52<MJCS>only NJ is blocked
15:53<HoopyCat>darkw: all ports are clear everywhere, except for atlanta, whose stick-in-the-mud datacenter people block a number of ports including 6667
15:53<darkw>no mjcs, nj isn't blocked lol
15:53<MJCS>i thought irc was not permitted in Newark
15:54<HoopyCat>MJCS: nope, IRC is fine
15:54<bd_>IRC is permitted anywhere - some incoming ports are blocked in atlanta though
15:54<MJCS>Yes. Our Atlanta facility does filter the common ports used by IRC, but you're free to use alternate ports. The other datacenters do not filter IRC.
15:54<HoopyCat> for the complete list as of a little while ago
15:57<darkw>where can i get info about the networks? bandwidth providers, hardware info, etc
15:58<bd_> <-- the newark network map. not sure which DC on that map linode's in though
15:59<bd_>though based on traceroutes it's probably mmu
15:59-!-pixsoul [] has joined #linode
15:59<HoopyCat> <--- for dallas, approximately
15:59<HoopyCat>and yeah, i do believe it is MMU for newark
16:00<darkw>and how about server specs?
16:01<krmdrms>8 core xeon 2.00 or 2.50 ghz and plenty amount of ram
16:01<darkw>wow.. they must have upgraded
16:01<mwalling>darkw: OMGFAST. that is all.
16:01<HoopyCat>they vary, by age of host; from photographic evidence, the servers appear to be supermicro 1U chasses
16:02<pixsoul>hiya, I'm thinking to buy vps for my new project - I'm concidering slicehost linode and maybe webbynode. I dont like with slicehost that they are limiting connection speed - 10mbps on smallest node. how is it with linode?
16:02<@caker>50mbps outbound, can raise it if you actually hit it, incoming has no limit
16:03<MJCS>pixsoul: i left slice host because of their speed as well
16:03<MJCS>I have been very pleased with linode an their support
16:03-!-Turl [] has joined #linode
16:03<darkw>linode speed is excellent pixsoul, no complaints from me
16:04<krmdrms>count me in.
16:04<HoopyCat>darkw: disks are generally in a raid 1 configuration, although raid 10 is being introduced for quickness++
16:04<pixsoul>:) and some people say that linode have better conectivity to europe...
16:05<darkw>caker, i read that the monthly transfer limit is a soft cap, and that you can go over... is it possible to get that as a hard limit?
16:05<HoopyCat>pixsoul: ^--- check the download speeds from newark
16:05<krmdrms>pixsoul yep
16:05-!-hpj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:05<@caker>darkw: not from us. You can monitor it and bring your Linode down with and lish keys and a script
16:06<azaghal>CWii: Serbia
16:06<@caker>darkw: you can also set an email alert to email you when/if you go over the threshold you set
16:06<krmdrms>pixsoul you can test download speeds etc. check the link above
16:07-!-pixsoul_ [] has joined #linode
16:07<pixsoul_>just tested it - 16meg broadband and reached my speed limit
16:07<darkw>shutting off the vps would still allow the IP to be requested and use bandwidth wouldn't it?
16:08<krmdrms>darkw i dont think so
16:08-!-Damianz [~Damian@] has joined #linode
16:08<bd_>darkw: Nothing would respond to the ARP request from the router. Whether it would count against your quota would probably depend on how bandwidth accounting is implemented
16:09<HoopyCat>pixsoul_: nice. :-)
16:09<bd_>If it's measured at the host, then once the cached arp table entry expires, no traffic will reach the host, so it wouldn't be accounted. If it's accounted for at the ingress router, then it might be a different story
16:09<Yaakov>A "blackhole this IP" button would be nice.
16:09-!-pixsoul [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:10<darkw>sure would yaakov
16:10<iggy>sometimes that has to be done at the DC level
16:10<bd_>Yaakov: it still costs linode bandwidth from their upstream, unless they call up the DC to null route it at a higher level
16:10<bd_>and the latter probably costs them as well
16:10<darkw>null routing.. there you go.. that would be nice with that ability
16:10<HoopyCat>bd_: i suspect it's done at the host<->linode interface, which would probably cause it to stop incrementing when the linode is stopped... hmm
16:11-!-Turl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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16:11<HoopyCat>Yaakov: "Blackhole HTTP Referers That Match This Pattern"
16:11<bd_>HoopyCat: I would suspect as well. The fact that inter-linode transfers over public IPs still count against the quota supports this theory too
16:11<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Heh, well, I am working on a mod_rewrite thingy to redirect based on referrer.
16:11<bd_>Yaakov: downing the interface will blackhole it :3
16:11-!-Tilton53 [] has joined #linode
16:11<bd_>Yaakov: or remove the IP address, if you have multiple ones.
16:11<darkw>and if only linode offered windows os :-p
16:12<pixsoul_>right - looks like I should give linode a try
16:12<HoopyCat>Yaakov: lighttpd does that in half a lamb's fart
16:12<mwalling>darkw: windows wont run in the xen stack that linode uses
16:12<krmdrms>pixsoul_: definitely!
16:12<pixsoul_>just to double check - if I will choose newark location - I can test backup functionality now? and if so - for how long?
16:12<darkw>so i take it theres no chance in the future of windows being offered
16:12<Yaakov>HoopyCat: It exists in mod_rewrite.
16:12<Yaakov>HoopyCat: I just want to automate it.
16:13<bd_>pixsoul_: Not right now. Bug caker to deploy it again already :)
16:13<linbot>Backups are in free beta, but the stack has been down for a month or so. Check out and join us in hoping it'll be back soon.
16:13<Yaakov>bd_: It is working NOW.
16:13<bd_>Yaakov: it is?
16:13<darkw>i know what linode stands for.. linux node
16:13<HoopyCat>darkw: if microsoft were to release a kernel that works under xen paravirtualization, and supports serial console, and isn't a bear in 360MB of RAM and 16GB of disk, it'd work just fine ;-)
16:13<bd_>oh hey!
16:13<bd_>it's back, awesome
16:13<HoopyCat>darkw: in other words, if windows were linux, windows would work fine
16:13<Turl1>hi caker
16:14<linbot>Backups are in free beta, but the stack has been down for a month or so. Check out and join us in hoping it'll be back soon.
16:14<Turl1>caker: just trying the
16:14<linbot>Backups are in free beta in certain DCs (including newark). See for details.
16:14<Turl1>doesn't work well :/
16:14<HoopyCat>Turl1: are you trying it from your linode?
16:14<Turl1>HoopyCat: nope
16:14<mwalling>Turl1: you need to request it from an ip associated with the account
16:14<darkw>i have a few server applications that will only run on windows, only reason i really want a windows vps lol
16:14<Yaakov>Dallas and Newark, Atlanta Real Soon Now™
16:14<mwalling>Turl1: i think it mentinos that in the forum post.
16:14<CWii>darkw, Like what?
16:14<Turl1>"The http request must come from one of the IPs of [linodeUsername]."
16:15<Turl1>I have disabled whitelisting
16:15<bd_>Yaakov: And Fremont in a decade when they have more power available? ;)
16:15<mwalling>Turl1: unrelated.
16:15<Peng_>pixsoul_: I'm pretty sure Slicehost will up your connection speed if you ask, FWIW.
16:15*mwalling stabs Peng_
16:15<@caker>Peng_: negative
16:15<Yaakov>bd_: They have to find a low emission storage server.
16:15<darkw>CWii, games
16:15<bd_>The fremont storage servers will be built upon ultra-low-power 1K RPM drives ;)
16:16<mwalling>bd_: SSDs!
16:16<CWii>darkw, What kind of game servers? SrcDS?
16:16<HoopyCat>darkw: if it's tw2002, that works just fine under wine on straterra's 1080 ;-)
16:16<bd_>mwalling: Not enough storage per dollar, surely
16:16<bd_>SSDs would be nicer on hosts than backup servers :)
16:16<mwalling>bd_: but its low power!
16:16<CWii>mwalling, Maybe we could hire someone to write by hand?
16:16<mwalling>darkw: bzfs runs on linux, what more do you need?
16:17<darkw>my own, and i don't do any programming for linux compatibility, so they're windows based
16:17<Yaakov>The new wind-powered drives will work.
16:17<CWii>darkw, Ah I see.
16:17<pixsoul_>ok, cool, cheers guys for all help :) but probably will go with linode as they are giving more ram, disk and traffic in the same price and look same good as slicehost
16:17<Turl1>mwalling: oh, I got it :P it's the linodes ip's associated with the acct, not the user's ip
16:17<@caker>Turl1: also, that forum post is kinda outdated. The username is actually that Linode's Lish username (listed on the console subtab)
16:17<darkw>at least until i learn how to program for linux lol
16:17<Turl1>thanks caker :)
16:17<Peng_>mwalling: :P caker: Oh, OK.
16:18-!-Turl1 is now known as Turl
16:18<darkw>caker, can i hire you as a server admin :P
16:18<HoopyCat>darkw: what language is it in?
16:18<darkw>if i get a vps, and how much do you charge lol
16:19<HoopyCat>darkw: hmmm... yeah, that could be a morass to port
16:19-!-Tilton53 [] has quit [Quit: Tilton53]
16:19<darkw>whats the best language option for linux then?
16:19-!-Tilton53 [] has joined #linode
16:19<CWii>It's not the wrost.
16:19<CWii>It's just not easily cross platform.
16:20<HoopyCat>darkw: C++ works fine under linux, but getting the same code to work fine under linux AND windows is a morass :-)
16:20<CWii>If you wanted cross platform it would be python or PHP
16:20<@caker>darkw: yes - $120/hour
16:20-!-JoeK [] has joined #linode
16:20<mwalling>darkw: what lang is your stuff in now?
16:20<Yaakov>caker: You are cheap!
16:21<iggy>you have no idea
16:21<darkw>c++ mwalling
16:21<HoopyCat>mwalling: 16:18 darkw C++
16:21-!-JoeK2 [] has joined #linode
16:21<mwalling>shush, he blends in
16:21*mwalling stabs
16:21<Yaakov>-!- JoeK2 []
16:21<JoeK2>i have quick question
16:21<mwalling>Yaakov: fail
16:21<JoeK2>looking at signing up
16:21<mwalling>!ask away
16:21<linbot>Don't ask to ask; just ASK
16:21<Peng_>JoeK2: Good plan! :)
16:21<CWii>JoeK2, you have 30 seconds gogogo
16:21<@caker>JoeK2: DOIT
16:21<JoeK2>once i sign up, how long until my VPS is accessible
16:21<mwalling>JoeK2: -1 seconds
16:21<krmdrms>great question
16:22<@caker>JoeK2: instant activation in most cases, so .. instantly.
16:22*CWii claps
16:22<HoopyCat>JoeK2: about five minutes from starting signup to booting, if you type really fast
16:22<JoeK2>looking to configure it tonight
16:22<JoeK2>need instant gratification
16:22<CWii>I did mine in about 2 hours.
16:22<HoopyCat>JoeK2: are you in the united states?
16:22<mwalling>darkw: you use MSVS?
16:22<CWii>I'm just slow.
16:22-!-pixsoul_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:22<HoopyCat>JoeK2: yeah, you're fine, just make sure your address matches and you aren't proxying through china via romania
16:23-!-HedgeMage [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:23<JoeK2>anyone run a mail server in their VPS?
16:23<mwalling>lots of us
16:23-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
16:23<CWii>Lot's of people go
16:23<JoeK2>i was looking @ slicehost too
16:23<Peng_>Even if you fail instant activation, caker's here, so you'd probably be manually activated in 2 minutes.
16:23<JoeK2>linode seems to have better pricing
16:23<mwalling>JoeK2: ^^
16:24<Peng_>JoeK2: Indeed Linode does.
16:24*krmdrms hugs his little linode :p
16:24<JoeK2>good link
16:25<JoeK2>looking at debian for rails stack. thoughts?
16:25<@caker>sounds good to me
16:25<mwalling>do it
16:25<mwalling>you dont want to know what my thoughts are right now
16:25<CWii>That reminds me.
16:26<Peng_>Peng_'s thoughts: "heheh, nunchuck is a funny word".
16:26*CWii checks to see if php was updated for pacman
16:26<JoeK2>one more: if i start with one plan, how long to upgrade to higher plan?
16:26<HoopyCat>my thoughts: "yaknow, i was totally going to go water the flowers 1.5 hours ago, why am i not gone?"
16:27<CWii>Still no update, what's up with that.
16:27<Peng_>JoeK2: You have to file a support ticket. Once everything is set up, it'll take a minute or two per GB of disk image you have. Probably significantly faster.
16:27<JoeK2>thx, now to order
16:28<Peng_>JoeK2: If you can't wait for a ticket, you can buy a new node, clone your disk images over and cancel the old one. Everything's prorate to the day, so you'll only be out like $0.50, if that.
16:28<@caker>can also swap ipz
16:29<Peng_>Oh, forgot about that.
16:30<HedgeMage>hey, caker, may I pm you?
16:31<Peng_>I get so curious whenever people ask that. :(
16:31<Yaakov>Peng_: May I PM you?
16:32<mwalling>Yaakov: may i pm you?
16:32-!-Solver [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:33<Peng_>Yaakov: Of course! What juicy secrets do you have to share with only me? :D
16:33<Peng_>Hmm, should've gone with "me alone".
16:33<darkw>Peng_, mind if I PM you?
16:33<Yaakov>mwalling: We are considering your application to PM and will respond within 10 days. Depending on the state where you live, you may have certain rights. Please check for more information about your rights.
16:34<Yaakov>Peng_: I was just checking, thanks.
16:34<HoopyCat>nobody likes sudden onset PMs
16:34<Peng_>I don't mind sudden onset PMs.
16:34<Peng_>darkw: <3
16:35<Turl>mhm, looks like sth cool (except the fact that it's perl)
16:35<Turl>HoopyCat: PMs don't disturb any more than an MSN contact
16:37<HoopyCat>Turl: actually, jabber/oscar/msn contacts default to sharing a single window unless individually moved to their own; private messages via IRC open a new window
16:37<Peng_>An MSN contact would greatly disturb me, since I don't have an MSN client installed.
16:37<Nivex>some people don't seem to like them. I saw someone in this channel drop an f-bomb on someone because they PMed
16:37<Nivex>not real sure why
16:37<HoopyCat>Turl: so, for me, technically speaking, it IS more disruptive. however, that just means i have to type /win close to make you go away :-)
16:37<mwalling>Nivex: me?
16:38<Peng_>Nivex: Crappy IRC clients, maybe?
16:38<Nivex>dunno. there may have been extenuating circumstances
16:38*mwalling loads an fbomb into a b2 and flys it over rochester
16:38<HoopyCat>hee hee
16:39<Yaakov>It's an MFOAB.
16:39<mwalling>Nivex: i hate it when someone comes in here, asks a question, i answer, and all of a sudden they want private support in query.
16:39<Yaakov>mwalling: Mind if I PM?
16:39<Turl>HoopyCat: in my case, a PM just opens a new tab in my IM window, so I just click on the little x and it's done :P
16:39<mwalling>Yaakov: as long as pparadis isnt around, not at all
16:40<Yaakov>You are afraid he will be jealous?
16:40<HoopyCat>Turl: wow, if i had to move my mouse, i'd probably kill someone
16:40<Nivex>/msg urmom ...
16:40<mwalling>Nivex: learned a lot of what i know right here, because people like bd_ correct me...
16:40<HoopyCat>it's usually buried in shit
16:40<mwalling>Nivex: now imagine if i told someone the wrong thing in a pm... no one is there to catch me
16:40<Yaakov>bd_: Please corret mwalling.
16:41<Nivex>not to mention that someone else might be listening in channel that could benefit from that nugget of wisdom
16:41<Turl>HoopyCat: I can also leave it open without minding
16:41<Nivex>nuggets with benefits?
16:42<HoopyCat>p-p-p-pengo breaker
16:42<Yaakov>Peng_: That was nugatory.
16:43<Turl>Staying alive, staying alive......
16:43<mwalling>Nivex: well, that and said person might get the opinion that i was acting in malice, and go around spreading fud about the entire comunity, or linode itself
16:43*mwalling paranoid
16:43-!-arooni-mobile [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:43<Turl>paranoia is #1
16:43<HoopyCat>Turl: i do employ an integrated real-time multimode communications system infrastructure, so it's not a serious issue at least. but, really, for me, it comes down to what mwalling said
16:44<Turl>HoopyCat: share the code!
16:44<Yaakov>For me it is a matter of gronchin lophitration.
16:45<HoopyCat>Turl: i probably utter complete uninformed bullpoop in here at least once a day, and if it weren't for the dedicated efforts of everyone else here, the world would be incrementally stupider through my ineptitude
16:45<HoopyCat>Turl: download the code: screen+irssi+twirssi+bitlbee :-)
16:47<Turl>HoopyCat: thought you would say "empathy" or "pidgin" heh
16:48<HoopyCat>Turl: naw, keep it all text-style
16:48<Karrde>whoops. pro tip: exclude your virtual machines from your general system backups (that are expected to be under 1GB in size)
16:48<chiisai>hmm. I'm having trouble with my linode going oom (for no apparent reason, as there usually is over 100 MB RAM free and no swap being used, and I'm not being hit by more traffic than usual). when it goes oom, it stays like that until I reboot (100% cpu, disk IO rate near 20k and very low net traffic), killing random processes (irssi, apache, mysql, znc, ps...) and not letting me in via lish or ssh. is there some kind of tool that will log whatever ha
16:48-!-Turl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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16:48*Turl 's super WiFi router sucks
16:49<Turl>any tip for making a WRT54GC a super router?
16:49<HoopyCat>chiisai: munin is handy, but it sounds like you're going under pretty fast. are you using the default apache settings for server forking, perchance?
16:49<HoopyCat>brb, natural gas emergency
16:51-!-Turl [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:51<HoopyCat>note to self: test the range burners for proper functionality after cleaning
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16:56<mwalling>chiisai: there are kernel knobs you can tweek that will cause OOMkiller to panic the kernel, then another knob that will shut down on panic
16:56<mwalling>once you shut down, lassie will boot you back up
16:56<mwalling>like wearing a dora the explorer bandaid in public, but should help a bit
16:58<HoopyCat>mwalling: take that back
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18:05<Yaakov>SpaceHobo: This is why I don't have network connections on any of my computers, and I run the headless, with no terminal.
18:05<bob2>oh man
18:06<Yaakov>them, too.
18:06<bob2>php cms in local user compromise shocker
18:08-!-ondrej_ [] has joined #linode
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18:22<HoopyCat>i've started running each php application under its own username, to cut down on the amount of crap a rogue application can mess up
18:23<Turl1>what would that be? 5%? 5 units of something?
18:24<Turl1>I'm looking at
18:24<Peng_>Turl1: Probably the usual %
18:24<HoopyCat>Turl1: probability that your cardiopulminary (CPU) system has tuberculosis (formerly known as "consumption")
18:25<HoopyCat>Turl1: 'tis percent of one host CPU used on average since the first of the month... so, on average, you use 5% of one CPU
18:26<Turl1>My linode is really light then - good for my neighbours :P
18:27<Nivex>in Graphs -> Historical Data, why are some months not linked?
18:28<HoopyCat>Turl1: you're using more than i am :-)
18:29<Turl1>HoopyCat: then your linode is idle I guess :P
18:30<HoopyCat>Nivex: i don't know... i remember hearing some explanation for it but i can't recall
18:31<HoopyCat>Turl1: 4.53% on one, 1.45% on the other :-)
18:32<Turl1>HoopyCat: I run a light webserver, what do you run? a ssh server only? :P
18:33<HoopyCat>Turl1: a web server with about 125k hits/day, nearly all of which are dynamic (even images, mumble mumble)
18:34<Turl1>125000 hits?! Mine gets 1k a day and uses more than yours :S
18:34<Turl1>Worst thing is, I use *really heavy* caching
18:35<Turl1>at webserver level (cache html), memory and opcode level (XCache), and at mysql level (query cache)
18:35-!-nybble [] has joined #linode
18:36<HoopyCat>Turl1: the smaller one is a modest web server of ~3k hits/day, and about 1.5k mail attempts/day, plus asterisk for the home phones, and -- this is the biggie -- my IRC client
18:36<Turl1>HoopyCat: "mail attempts"? spam you mean?
18:38<HoopyCat>Turl1: oh, this is a wiki written in python, with postgresql, lighttpd, and memcached doing that voodoo that they do :-)
18:38<HoopyCat>Turl1: grep " connect from" mail.log.0 | wc -l... mostly spam, from my casual watching of the log
18:39<Turl1>I run mysql+lighttpd+php+xcache
18:39<Turl1>xcache really helps, I must say
18:39<HoopyCat>all other things being equal, fat people use more soap
18:45<Turl1>HoopyCat: cool uh?
18:47<HoopyCat>p.s. that is all she wrote: no fancy python tricks, no opcode caches or anything like that ('side from python's .pyc stuff, which shaves a few milliseconds off of boot)... denyhosts, lighttpd, python, munin-node, cron, memcached, exim4, ntpd, postgres, sshd, openvpn, syslogd :-)
18:47<HoopyCat>Turl1: :-)
18:48<HoopyCat>Turl1: nice formatting on the bandwidth totals. it's easy to get lazy on those :-)
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19:19-!-Turl1 is now known as Turl
19:19<Turl>HoopyCat: any wiki or sth to share the code?
19:32<straterra>mikegrb: why the hate?!
19:34-!-Kassah [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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19:37<HoopyCat>Turl: i think
19:37<Turl>HoopyCat: ¬¬
19:38<Turl>I meant a linode wiki where I could post the code, not a wiki software :P
19:38<HoopyCat>Turl: oh! :-)
19:38<Turl>thanks :)
19:38<HoopyCat>Turl: sorry, got lost in google earth for a bit and lost context
19:39-!-JamesCollins [~jimmycoll@] has joined #linode
19:41<Turl>np HoopyCat
19:46<linbot>MJCS: 07:46 PM, July 05, 2009
19:46<MJCS>!time Melbourne, Australia
19:48<HoopyCat>!wolframalpha time in melbourne, australia
19:48-!-me [] has joined #linode
19:48<HoopyCat>!f time in melbourne, australia
19:48<linbot>HoopyCat: 9:48:15 am EST | Monday, July 6, 2009
19:48<HoopyCat>oh that works
19:48<HoopyCat>when in doubt, f it
19:48-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:49<me>hey all..back to see if I can have a chat to a linode employee re: data privacy measures
19:49<krmdrms>!f time in istanbul, turkey
19:49<linbot>krmdrms: 2:49:47 am EEST | Monday, July 6, 2009
19:50<laser`>me: The ops (prepended by @) are staff, the rest of us are just the helpful community
19:50<laser`>To guarantee a response, it's best to raise a ticket
19:50<krmdrms>me: you can open a ticket if you want
19:51<me>laser & krmdrms: thanks for responses guys...yeh..just wanting some official word that's all..may be best to do it via a ticket I guess..
19:51<me>..but of you guys are helpful..that's why I pop in and out now and then
19:52<me>besides...can be entertaining too :)
19:54<Turl>HoopyCat: ;)
19:55<linbot>New news from wiki: Bandwidth <>
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20:01<HoopyCat>Turl: :-)
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20:11<Turl>is the ipv6 HE tunnel free?
20:11<straterra>Free as in money, yes
20:11-!-Harry_Mudd [] has joined #linode
20:12<tjfontaine>but the technology is patent encumbered?
20:12<Turl>and is it worth it?
20:12<Turl>I mean, it won't hurt setting it up?
20:12<HoopyCat>it's not free as in beer
20:13<tjfontaine>where can I find free beer?
20:13<HoopyCat>Turl: it's the good kind of hurt; the kind where you learn something. :-)
20:13<HoopyCat>tjfontaine: IPv8
20:14<Turl>HoopyCat: but it won't break my filesystems nor take my ipv4 down right? :P
20:14<Turl>that would be a bad hurt
20:14<tjfontaine>yes it will
20:14<tjfontaine>all of them
20:14<tjfontaine>it will rot your system to the core
20:16<HoopyCat>Turl: if it causes filesystem damage, you're reading the wrong howto. :-) however, as with any change to network configuration, it has the potential to break stuff if not done right the first time (so have your lish standing by...)
20:17<Turl>thanks HoopyCat :)
20:17<Turl>Argentina is ipv4-only AFAIK, so I won't be able to use it anyway :P
20:17<Peng_>Turl: You can set up another tunnel at home.
20:18<Peng_>Turl: What distro do you use?
20:18<Peng_>your node, I mean
20:19<Turl>intrepid I guess
20:19<Turl>I didn't upgrade yet
20:19<Turl>yeah it's intrepid, just checked
20:19<Turl>brb, out to dine
20:19<Peng_>I run an HE IPv6 tunnel on Hardy, so I may be able to help. :)
20:21<HoopyCat>i do as well, with an openvpn tunnel to home to transport the ipv6 goodness :-)
20:22<Peng_>HoopyCat: Have you written a howto on that yet? :D
20:22<Peng_>HoopyCat: Not trying to rush you or anything, but if you had, I probably would've missed it, so...
20:26<HoopyCat>Peng_: no, but it is actually on my to-do list with a due date
20:27<HoopyCat>Peng_: i did not anticipate a 7-week writing intensive history course to kick my ass so
20:33<Turl>I'll start with , let's see what happens
20:35<Turl>first question, do I need a regular or bgp tunnel?
20:35<amitz>HoopyCat: hmm what's disturbing is that I can't conclude whether the sarcasm about humanity doing what the mythology does is really meant to be a sarcasm or not.. :-)
20:36-!-laser` [] has quit [Quit: DMDirc exiting]
20:37<HoopyCat>amitz: the atrocities and horrors committed using the various mythologies (ancient and contemporary) as justification are numerous and continuing; so, no, not sarcasm :-)
20:38<straterra>turl, regular
20:38<amitz>A-KO: HoopyCat: btw, for some merchants, there is no based fee for credit card charging. Specifically the X part of the form of $X+%ofNominalTransaction. Not even an annual fee.
20:38<straterra>if you dont know if you need don't
20:38<Turl>what's nearer atlanta? dallas, toronto, ny, los angeles, fremont, seattle, ashburn, miami or chicago?
20:39-!-hercynium [] has joined #linode
20:39<Peng_>Turl: Probably Ashburn. Ping 'em and check.
20:39<Turl>good idea
20:39<Peng_>Turl: Miami, Chicago and Dallas are the next-closest.
20:39<HoopyCat>Turl: hmmmmm....... i'd say miami, dallas, ashburn, chicago, new york, toronto, los angeles, fremont, seattle, sorting geographically
20:40<straterra>china is closest
20:40<HoopyCat>i might be mis-guessing where atlanta is along the miami-ashburn axis
20:40<Turl>ashburn is fastest up to now
20:40<HoopyCat>amitz: those usually aren't the merchants with the minimums, i fear
20:41-!-Eviltechie [] has joined #linode
20:42<Eviltechie>How come the default ubuntu instalation is missing a bunch of common stuff like cron, wget, nano, etc.
20:42<straterra>It's been stripped down
20:42<straterra>use apt-get to install what you need
20:43<Eviltechie>Also, why was the multiverse not included in the sources list?
20:43<guinea-pig>i thought it was just a minimal installation, not a stripped down one
20:43<straterra>You thought wrong
20:43<Peng_>Wow, no cron, wget or nano? Back when I installed, I'm not sure about wget, but it definitely had the others.
20:44<straterra>Eviltechie: What is this multiverse you speak up?
20:44<Peng_>Seriously, no cron?
20:44<guinea-pig>rather, i thought it was a minimal, with a few silly unneeded things removed
20:44<Eviltechie>No cron
20:44<guinea-pig>Peng_: maybe because of anacron?
20:44<@caker>we didn't deliberately strip it down .. it's a minimal install
20:44<supine>Eviltechie: multiverse is never included in default installs
20:44<guinea-pig>also... what supine said
20:44<Yaakov>My Debian installation was just the kernel, less and vim.
20:45<Eviltechie>I know stuff is usally commented out, but it wasn't even on the list. It took me a while to figure out why a lot of stuff was broken.
20:45<straterra>What was broken?
20:45<@caker>Eviltechie: which version was this?
20:45<guinea-pig>if something requires something from multiverse, shouldn't that be in multiverse too?
20:45<straterra>What is this multiverse?
20:45<Eviltechie>It's where some of the restricted stuff is
20:46<supine>straterra: it's stuff that's outside the Canonical umbrella
20:46<Eviltechie>Not exacltly broken, but messed up.
20:46<guinea-pig>messed up how?
20:46<straterra>Well..what's messed up?
20:46<@caker>Eviltechie: which Ubuntu template was this, and what was broken?
20:46<tjfontaine>The "multiverse" component contains software that is "not free", which means the licensing requirements of this software do not meet the Ubuntu "main" Component Licence Policy.
20:46<tjfontaine>The onus is on you to verify your rights to use this software and comply with the licensing terms of the copyright holder.
20:46<tjfontaine>This software is not supported and usually cannot be fixed or updated. Use it at your own risk.
20:46<Eviltechie>The 9.04, and broken because I'm missing a lot of the default programs that are usally part of any linux.
20:47<straterra>Damn ubuntu
20:47<tjfontaine>we have different definitions of "broken"
20:47<tjfontaine>physically and forcibly separated into pieces or cracked or split; "a broken mirror"; "a broken tooth"; "a broken leg"; "his neck is broken"
20:47<guinea-pig>it has what it needs to run what's in the minimal install
20:47<tjfontaine>subdued or brought low in condition or status; "brought low"; "a broken man"; "his broken spirit"
20:47<tjfontaine>(especially of promises or contracts) having been violated or disregarded; "broken (or unkept) promises"; "broken contracts"
20:47<guinea-pig>any more, you need to apt-get yourself
20:47<tjfontaine>tamed or trained to obey; "a horse broken to the saddle"; "this old nag is well broken in"
20:48<tjfontaine>This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu minimal system, that is a functional command-line system with the following capabilities:
20:48<straterra>must not include emacs then
20:49<Eviltechie>Also, what happened to the admin group?
20:49<guinea-pig>what admin group?
20:50<straterra>Isn't that..wheel?
20:50<tjfontaine>admin is the group that gets sudo by default in a full desktop install
20:50<supine>straterra: your bsdisms are showing
20:50<guinea-pig>silly distro-specificisms
20:50<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
20:50<straterra>tjfontaine: I use BSD more than Slackware these days
20:50<tjfontaine>straterra: you also drive a chick car :)
20:51<straterra>urmom doesn't seem to mind
20:51<Turl> 2001:470:7:11a::1/64 is an address or a range?
20:51<Peng_>Has factoidbot merged with tjfontaine?
20:51<Peng_>Turl: It's both. :D
20:51<straterra>Turl: both
20:51<straterra>BOTH MAN BOTH
20:51<Nivex>/64 denotes the netmask
20:51<Turl>so on my config, when it asks for the IP I write with the /64 ?
20:51-!-Edgeman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:51<Peng_>Turl: No.
20:51*tjfontaine pets guinea-pig
20:51<Peng_>Turl: Setting up /etc/network/interfaces?
20:52<Nivex>"No, you throw the ball to Who!"
20:52<Turl>yeah Peng_
20:52<straterra>Where's who?
20:52<Peng_>Turl: Here's mine, FWIW:
20:52<Nivex>straterra: Who's on first.
20:52<Turl>thanks Peng_
20:54-!-Guest64 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:54<guinea-pig>Eviltechie: anyways, you might want to install ubuntu-standard, but that'll include stuff you very likely don't need (and can't even use on a linode), like usbutils, pciutils and dmidecode
20:54<guinea-pig>and ppp crap
20:54<Turl>Peng_: what's "remote" ?
20:54<@caker>The following Linode is rated R.
20:55-!-Eviltechie [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:55<Peng_>Turl: I dunno.
20:55<Peng_>Turl: I didn't learn how /etc/network/interfaces worked, I just hit it with a hammer until it did what I wanted.
20:56<Turl>is it your linode's ipv4 ip or sth?
20:56<Peng_>Turl: It's the HE server's IPv4 IP.
20:57*Peng_ points at his /interfaces.
20:57<Yaakov>HE's page has a little config builder thingie. I used that and it worked fine.
20:57-!-Edgeman [] has joined #linode
20:57<HoopyCat>my /etc/network/interfaces, which works fine:
20:58<HoopyCat>one call destroys them all
20:58<straterra>Yaakov: I read that as configer
20:59<Peng_>Yaakov: It does? I never saw that.
21:00<straterra>Peng_: indeed it does
21:00<Peng_>HoopyCat: Ah. That's more or less equivalent to mine.
21:00<Yaakov>Bottom of "Tunnel Details"
21:01<HoopyCat>Peng_: yeah, i didn't look at yours, but i think you actually based yours off of mine or vice versa :-)
21:01<HoopyCat>mine's awesome and self-contained, although if you're running ubuntus of 8.04 or so, there's that pesky modprobe thing
21:02<Peng_>HoopyCat: I based mine off of yours once, but it didn't work, so I did something else.
21:02<Peng_>HoopyCat: Newer Ubuntus fix the modprobe problem?
21:04<Peng_>straterra & Yaakov: That has commands for getting it running, but I never saw anything for /etc/network/interfaces.
21:04<HoopyCat>Peng_: yeah, newer ubuntus fix the modprobe problem, i believe
21:04<straterra>My distro will take those commands easily :P
21:05<Yaakov>Peng_: Well, that's the configuartion that needs to end up in interfaces.
21:05<HoopyCat>Peng_: rare is the acute ubuntu problem that isn't fixed in a newer version than the one you're running
21:05<SelfishMan>or apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
21:05<Peng_>Yaakov: Sure, but hammering it into a form interfaces liked was the problem.
21:05<Peng_>HoopyCat: :(
21:06<SelfishMan>"hammering it into a form interfaces liked was the problem"
21:06<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: the annoying shit i run into isn't worth changing horses for, apparently
21:06*SelfishMan 's eye twitches
21:06<HoopyCat>there isn't THAT much hammering :-)
21:06<Yaakov>SelfishMan: Your eye is twitching.
21:07*SelfishMan waits for caker to disect that statement
21:07-!-praetorian [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:07<Turl>this ipv6 thing is harder than what it seems
21:07-!-praetorian [] has joined #linode
21:07<SelfishMan>Turl: no it isn't
21:07<Yaakov>It's very close to trivial.
21:08<Turl>he's steps give "operation not permitted" when pinging
21:08<Turl>and the interfaces file fails to put the interface up
21:08<HoopyCat>Turl: which ubuntu are you running?
21:09<Peng_>Turl: IPv6 is not to blame. If our ISPs provided native IPv6, it would be as easy as setting up IPv4. (Aside from that modprobe bug.)
21:09<Battousai>it'd be even easier!
21:10<HoopyCat>Turl: hmm... try mv /sbin/modprobe /sbin/modprobe.orig, and stick in place of /sbin/modprobe (and make it chmod 755 of course)
21:10-!-Turl1 [] has joined #linode
21:10<Peng_>Battousai: It would be? Why? The lack of DHCP?
21:10<krmdrms>i followed the linode wiki and its working. i messed up a bit but now everything ok:)
21:10-!-Turl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:10<Peng_>Turl1: What was the last thing you saw?
21:10<HoopyCat>Turl: hmm... try mv /sbin/modprobe /sbin/modprobe.orig, and stick in place of /sbin/modprobe (and make it chmod 755 of course)
21:10<Yaakov>On my home box I use Miredo.
21:10<SelfishMan>Dear SYTYCD: Please forget to turn on Mary's microphone. I can't stand hearing her cackle when my gf is watching the show.
21:11<Battousai>Peng_: not so much the lack of dhcp as the introduction of useful stateless autoconfiguration
21:11<Turl1>how can I delete virtual interfaces?
21:11<Turl1>I want to clean before doing anything else
21:12<Peng_>Battousai: As a Regular User connecting to a network run by somebody else, does it matter?
21:12<Turl1>nevermind, found it
21:12<linbot>Yaakov: [mtr] not found
21:12<Battousai>Peng_: the regular user stipulation wasn't part of the original discussion ;)
21:12<linbot>Yaakov: [mtr] 7 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 73.6ms
21:13<Battousai>you'd also (in theory) be provided nat-free home networking
21:13<HoopyCat>Peng_: connect your computer to my LAN. as long as it supports ipv6, it will achieve the ipv6.
21:13<linbot>Yaakov: [mtr] 7 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 73.5ms
21:13<Battousai>and with that, from a regular user perspective, there is less of a headache when your set-top router goes haywire
21:13<linbot>Yaakov: [mtr] 8 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 86.1ms
21:14<SelfishMan>Yaakov: The fremont node has IPv6 functioning
21:14<Yaakov>Odd... V6 was faster than V4.
21:14-!-jcn [] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?]
21:15<linbot>SelfishMan: [mtr] 3 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 1.3ms
21:15<SelfishMan>That's the tunnel endpoint
21:15<Peng_>HoopyCat: You have an IPv6 LAN? How? What equipment?
21:15<Peng_>Battousai: Ah, good point. Getting rid of NAT would be nice.
21:15<Battousai>most any equipment can support it
21:16<Battousai>routers specifically have to provide ipv6 service
21:16<Battousai>but underlying switches and hubs don't care what bits you send at that level
21:16<HoopyCat>Peng_: a linux box running openvpn (for the tunnel to my linode) and radvd (for the announcements internally)
21:17<Peng_>Battousai: Oh, I didn't know that about switches/hubs.
21:17<Yaakov>I am using Miredo on my home Debian box which is behind NAT. It works very well.
21:17<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: Why are you tunneling IPv6 over a vpn? Why not just use HE direct to your home?
21:17<HoopyCat>Yaakov: they may use different paths, of course. :-) it's possible the ipv4 route traverses multiple networks, but the ipv6 route stays almost all HE
21:17<Yaakov>I can't use HE at home because my ISP blocks ping.
21:17<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: i'm behind a NAT
21:18<Yaakov>Miredo was startlingly easy to set up.
21:18<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: NAT on your end or NAT by your ISP?
21:18-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@] has joined #linode
21:19<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: NAT on my end
21:19<Turl1>OMG I think I removed /sbin/modprobe
21:19<Battousai>then put it back in there
21:19<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: Pass the protocol through to something that can handle the IPv6 tunnel?
21:20<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: it's a BEFSR41, i'm lucky it passes openvpn :-)
21:20<Nivex>Yaakov: your ISP does WHAT‽ They should be shot for that!
21:20<Yaakov>I also use the OS X port of Miredo on this MBP, it works well.
21:20<Yaakov>Nivex: I was surprised.
21:20<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: It supports a DMZ port which passes everything
21:20<HoopyCat>Turl1: this is an excellent time to test your procedure for restoring a single file from your backups!
21:20*SelfishMan looks for more ways to complicate HoopyCat's life
21:20-!-JoeK [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:20<Yaakov>OK, good night all.
21:21<Yaakov>Be well.
21:21<HoopyCat>g'nite Yaakov :-)
21:21-!-atourino [~antonio@] has joined #linode
21:21<krmdrms>good night Yaakov
21:21<Turl1>HoopyCat: if backups were in Atlanta (and I had them)
21:22<Turl1>I think I'll just reinstall the package
21:22<Turl1>any idea where it is in?
21:22<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: there's a fine balancing act going on here with regards IPv6 tunneling, SIP/RTP, my wife's bittorrenting, and all the less-uncommon stuff, through a router that is so old it still thinks al gore won
21:23<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: i ain't fsckin' with that ship
21:23<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: Linux box?
21:23<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: besides, it gave me an opportunity to play with openvpn :-)
21:23<HoopyCat>Turl1: yup... dpkg -S /sbin/modprobe
21:24<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: i am considering it. i'll probably still keep the openvpn going, however.
21:24-!-joe [] has joined #linode
21:25<joe>just setup my first linode VPS running debian
21:25<joe>any suggestions on mail servers?
21:25-!-joe is now known as Guest128
21:25<supine>whatever you have used and are familiar with
21:25<supine>failing that, postfix
21:25<HoopyCat>Guest128: debian defaults to exim, which is a reasonable way to go
21:26<SelfishMan>Guest128: use the default for your distro
21:26<SelfishMan>or postfix if you want to simplify it a bit
21:26<supine>HoopyCat: if you like your configuration scattered across 372 files
21:26<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: i was using sixxs with aiccu for awhile, but they had serious silica vaginitis
21:27<HoopyCat>supine: i don't mind having my configuration scattered across 372 files if i don't plan on touching it :-)
21:27<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: HE has, unfortunately, been the most reliable for me
21:27-!-JoeK2 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:27<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: indeed... when it hasn't been, i've e-mailed them and they *thanked* me for letting them know
21:28<amitz>HoopyCat: well, there are additional cost in receiving credit card. For instance, dial-up cost for non-fixed line connection to cc. In some place, there is no unlimited call plan. Each cost might cost say 3 cents. Repeated attempts cost 3 cents each. So naturally there is minimum transaction of around US$5-20.
21:29<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: i should do the BGP thing one of these days... :-)
21:30<linbot>New news from wiki: IPv6 <> || Getting started <> || Current events <> || Asterisk <> || Asterisk <> || Asterisk <> || Asterisk <
21:30<HoopyCat>amitz: overall, i don't mind it that much if a merchant wants to say "$10 minimum on credit cards, sorry", although that's totally against the rules and can get them banninated from the credit card club
21:31<Turl1>hm, I did the modprobe thing HoopyCat
21:31<Turl1>now ifup works
21:31<HoopyCat>Turl1: hooray!
21:31<Turl1>but.. ping doesn't
21:31<HoopyCat>Turl1: ping6?
21:31<HoopyCat>oh i forget what the fix for that is.
21:31<Turl1>I get ping: sendmsg: Operation not permitted
21:32<HoopyCat>telnet 6667?
21:32-!-Tilton53 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33<Turl1>no telnet here hehe
21:33<Turl1>nc connects
21:33<Turl1>but I guess it uses ipv4
21:33<HoopyCat>also make sure you don't have any looming communism in your iptables/ip6tables configurations
21:35-!-darkw [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:35<Turl1>do I need to do the 6to4 thing?
21:36<Nivex>socat is a wonderful thing
21:36<HoopyCat>Turl1: nope
21:37<amitz>HoopyCat: at the end we don't accept cc, only debit card. 1. Is the problem with cc regulation as you stated. 2. Problem of potential chargeback. 3. forgot to mention, there is a time lag between transaction and money received, which mean lost of interest.
21:37<HoopyCat>Turl1: signs are pointing towards it being a firewall thing
21:37<Turl1>HoopyCat: I disabled my firewall
21:37<HoopyCat>amitz: i don't know the exact ratios, but i believe debit card transactions cost the merchant less (and the issuing bank more) than credit card transactions
21:37<Turl1>HoopyCat: do I need some route?
21:38<HoopyCat>Turl1: maybe... pastebin ip -6 route ?
21:40<HoopyCat>ARGH THEY AREN'T PHASES, THEY'RE LEGS! *gets out the electrical beating stick*
21:40<HoopyCat>*cough* sorry, pedantry at something else
21:40-!-NeonNero [] has quit [Quit: A fool and his money are soon... Hey! Where's my wallet?]
21:42<HoopyCat>Turl1: the far end of the tunnel is 2001:470:7:11a::1 and you are 2001:470:7:11a::2, right?
21:42<amitz>HoopyCat: oh you mean debit card using visa/mastercard network? Nobody dare to use that here, perhaps too risky in their perception since customer has little(?)/no(?) chance to initiate chargeback.
21:42<Turl1>HoopyCat: yeah
21:43<HoopyCat>amitz: well, most people aren't going to chargeback a soda (although...)
21:43<HoopyCat>Turl1: hmm, your ip -6 route looks totally different than mine
21:43<krmdrms>HoopyCat if you have a min. could you look at mine too:) ->
21:44<HoopyCat>krmdrms: yup, yours also looks different than mine :-)
21:44<krmdrms>that lines start with unreachable not sounds good to me. i just follow the linode wiki.
21:44<straterra>rar for linux pukes on extracting individual files from a multipart rar
21:44-!-Smark [] has joined #linode
21:45<krmdrms>i can ping other ipv6 hosts. i tried traceroute and it works ok.
21:45<Smark>oh hey, speaking of which, i should reinstall my IPv6 tunnel...
21:45<Peng_>krmdrms: Most of the routes are via the local interface? Huh.
21:47<HoopyCat>the wiki is missing the up/down statements i have, as well as the remote statement; the endpoint statement is also different
21:47<krmdrms>Peng_: here is traceroute output->
21:48<Peng_>HoopyCat: Yeah, there seem to be two ways to do it. One uses 'gateway' and one uses 'remote'.
21:53<krmdrms>Peng_ oops you didint meant traceroute:) yeah it seems most of the routes are.
21:54<Turl1>krmdrms: can you paste your interfaces file for me to see?
21:55<krmdrms>im using centos
21:55<straterra>It annoys me when my internet bursts to 1.8 megs a second
21:55<Turl1>HoopyCat: are you using debian/ubuntu?
21:56<Smark>after setting up my hetunnel in /etc/network/interfaces, how do i initiate a network restart? I'd rather not restart the entire linode
21:56<Turl1>Smark: /etc/init.d/network restart I guess
21:56<HoopyCat>Turl1: yes
21:56<Smark>also, if i did the edit to /etc/network/interfaces do I still need to run the commands given to me by HE?
21:57<HoopyCat>Smark: no
21:57<Turl1>can you paste your interfaces file HoopyCat?
21:57<HoopyCat>Turl1: :-)
21:57<HoopyCat>+/- typos (my copy buffer is in heavy use)
21:58<krmdrms>how can i delete interface via ifconfig? is "ifconfig interfacename down" right?
21:58<Turl1>krmdrms: yes
21:58<brainproxy>i think you can also do:
21:58<brainproxy>ifdown eth0
21:58<Peng_>Smark: You shouldn't have to fully restart networking. Just "ifup he-ipv6" or whatever you named it.
21:59<Smark>:~$ ping6
21:59<Smark>connect: Network is unreachable
21:59<tjfontaine>I promise it is
21:59<Smark>i figured as much
21:59<Smark>but why :~$ ping6
21:59<Smark>connect: Network is unreachable
21:59<Smark>god damn
21:59<Smark>since when does shift+\ paste stuff?
22:00<HoopyCat>is your \ too close to your insert? :-)
22:01*SelfishMan inserts a \ in HoopyCat's :-)
22:03*HoopyCat winks at SelfishMan, like the cartoon plumber on the side of the Mr. Rooter truck
22:03-!-praetorian [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:03-!-praetorian [] has joined #linode
22:03*SelfishMan rubs his nipples
22:04<Turl1>what's this? ioctl: No buffer space available
22:05<HoopyCat>uhh... how do i do one of those smileys where one eye is like o and the other is like O?
22:05<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: %?
22:06<HoopyCat>guinea-pig: thx
22:06<HoopyCat>Turl1: O_o
22:06<Turl1>HoopyCat: I got that on ifup with your config
22:06<HoopyCat>Turl1: oh! it means the interface name already exists
22:07<HoopyCat>that's what we call a "kernel bug"
22:07<HoopyCat>i think purrdeta ran into that back when he set his up, but i'm probably wrong
22:08<Turl1>how can I clean the name?
22:09<Turl1>hm, changed names and now it got up
22:09<Turl1>but... ping: sendmsg: Operation not permitted, on ping
22:11<Smark>So I tried setting up my HETunnelBroker service, just to get "connect: Network is unreachable"... I'm running Shorewall, might that be the problem?
22:11<HoopyCat>Turl1: how drunk are you? i was pretty drunk when i set mine up and it worked fine
22:11<Turl1>HoopyCat: I'm 0% drunk
22:11<atourino>thats the problem right there
22:11<Turl1>route -6 shows a lot of crap
22:11<Turl1>how can I clean it?
22:11<HoopyCat>Smark: yeah, maybe. what configuration method are you using? the one HE recommends, the one in the linode wiki, the one i'm using, or the one Peng_'s using? :-)
22:12<Smark>as far as setting up the tunnel?
22:12<HoopyCat>Smark: what'd you stick in /etc/network/interfaces ?
22:12<Smark>I'm using the Linode Wiki one with "the right way"
22:12<atourino>HoopyCat: How do I prevent my cats from eating our plants?
22:12<krmdrms>Turl1 what kind of crap :D
22:13<Smark>i'll pastebin it
22:13<Turl1>well, this is progressing... now on ping it gets an ipv6 addr :P
22:13<HoopyCat>Turl1: there's a "del" command to route that'll let you delete routes by destination
22:13<Turl1>PING 56 data bytes
22:13<Turl1>ping: sendmsg: Operation not permitted
22:13<HoopyCat>atourino: install strategic catnip
22:13<Turl1>any idea?
22:13<HoopyCat>Turl1: and you can ping the ipv4 address of the other side, right?
22:13<Turl1>my pc->server you mean?
22:14<HoopyCat>Turl1: the ipv4 address of the tunnelbroker, on the "remote" line in your /etc/network/interfaces
22:14<HoopyCat>or the "endpoint" line if you used the other documentation ;-)
22:14<HoopyCat>Turl1: and iptables -L and ip6tables -L is clean?
22:14<Turl1>it shows ufw rules
22:15<Turl1>the v6 iptables shows only accept all rules
22:15<krmdrms>Hmmm -> . Its a bug.
22:16<mwalling>are you allowing protocol 41 traffic?
22:16<HoopyCat>Turl1: you're using ufw?! oh why didn't you say so. /etc/default/ufw, is IPV6=yes?
22:16<jtsage>turl - if you are firewalling ipv4, there is a specific protocol you need to pass....
22:16<jtsage>bah. mwalling beat me too it
22:16<Turl1>HoopyCat: nope, it's no
22:16<Turl1>should I change it?
22:16<Smark>I am firewalling IPv4 with Shorewall, what do I need to add to my tunnels file?
22:17<HoopyCat>Smark: is what i'm rocking on this end, ymmv
22:17<HoopyCat>Turl1: if you wish to allow IPv6 traffic to work, yes
22:17<HoopyCat>Smark: that's just the interfaces config, btw -- i don't use iptables on this end
22:18<Turl1>more progress :D now I get 100% packet loss, but no errors on ping :)
22:18<Smark>I don't have the "#
22:18<Smark>auto he-ipv6
22:18<HoopyCat>Turl1: hooray!
22:19<HoopyCat>Smark: the up/down lines shouldn't be necessary, but for some reason, i have them in there.
22:20<Smark>/bin/sh: modprobe: Permission denied
22:20<Smark>i think thats the problem
22:20<Turl1>HoopyCat: now, any ideas on how to improve the packet loss?
22:20<HoopyCat>Turl1: ufw allow proto 41 from x.x.x.x ?
22:21<HoopyCat>Smark: which distro/version are you running again?
22:21<HoopyCat>getting sleepy, brain full
22:21<Smark>Ubuntu 9.04
22:21<Turl1>from what? the remote server ipv4?
22:22<Turl1>proto 41 not allowed :/
22:23<HoopyCat>Turl1: yes, the remote server ip. and proto 41 not allowed... hmm... maybe ufw allow from x.x.x.x? :-)
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22:28<Smark>ok, well figured it out
22:28<Smark>now i get the operation not permitted error
22:29<HoopyCat>bedtime o'er hither. g'nite all!
22:29<Turl>Smark: nano /etc/default/ufw , change the ipv6=no to =yes
22:30<krmdrms>good night HoopyCat
22:30<Smark>file doesnt exist Turl
22:31<Turl>odd Smark
22:31<Turl>cya HoopyCat
22:31<Smark>different location is all
22:34<linbot>tjfontaine: The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and urmom. (830:0/0) [omumr]
22:36-!-mario_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:45<Smark>cant figure it out Turl... I changed DISABLE_IPv6 in my /etc/shorewall/shorewall.conf to YES, but I'm still getting the operation not permitted error
22:46<Smark>to NO rather
22:48-!-atourino [~antonio@] has quit [Quit: atourino]
22:49<Turl>Smark: did you reload shorewall?
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22:55<Turl>:D :D it's working!
22:55<Turl>now I need the correct firewall rule to let it work
22:55<Smark>what'd you have to do?
22:55<Turl>I disabled my firewall for now
22:56<Smark>i suppose i could try that
22:56<Turl>I use ufw btw, not shorewall
22:56<Smark>still getting operation permitted even though shorewall is stopped
22:58<Turl>do you see crap on iptables -L, ip6tables -L, ifconfig or route -6 ?
22:59<Smark>FATAL: Module ip6_tables not found.
22:59<Smark>iptables outputs stuff, i'll check route -6
22:59<Smark>route -6 puts out stuff
22:59<Smark>actually im dumb
22:59<Smark>it works
23:00<Smark>wrong ssh window, ran it as a non-root user
23:00<Smark>so they all output information, yes
23:05<krmdrms>im bored with ipv6
23:06<krmdrms>thats enough:)
23:08-!-jtaji [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:11<Nivex>hmm, maybe that's why it's not implemented yet ;)
23:15<Peng_>Turl: I added a rule to /etc/ufw/before.rules to allow the tunnel's proto-41 traffic through. Worked fine.
23:15<Turl>Peng_: can you paste the rule?
23:16<Turl>that would make this work perfectly :)
23:16<Peng_>Turl: -A ufw-before-input -p ipv6 -s -d -j ACCEPT
23:16<Peng_>Turl: Obviously, you'd have to switch out the source and destination IPs.
23:17<Turl>216. is your linode right?
23:17<Peng_>Turl: No. Other way around.
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23:20<Turl>I added it and restarted ufw
23:20<Turl>but doesn't seem to be working :/
23:21-!-Tilton53 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:21<Peng_>Turl: What's the rule you added? What doesn't work? Does IPv6 traffic still work? IPv6? You didn't add it to /etc/ufw/before6.rules, did you?
23:22<Turl>Peng_: I added it to before.rules, under the loopback rules
23:23<Turl>and I get 100% packet loss on pinging
23:23<Turl>if I disable ufw I can ping
23:24<linbot>krmdrms: [mtr] 13 hops, 20.0%/103.6ms, 20.0%/113.9ms
23:25<linbot>krmdrms: [mtr] 2 hops, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms
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23:25<linbot>krmdrms: [mtr] not found
23:25<krmdrms>thanks linbot
23:25<Turl>krmdrms: I guess the bot is not ipv6 ready
23:25<tjfontaine>my node doesn't like you
23:26<krmdrms>I LOVE YOU ALL
23:26<tjfontaine>actually my nodes don't do ipv6 so, not much mtr-dallas won't be much love for you
23:26<Peng_>tjfontaine: !mtr-* is you?
23:27<tjfontaine>mtr-dallas is one of my nodes
23:27<tjfontaine>the other dcs are other sponsors
23:28<Turl>PING 56 data bytes
23:28<Turl>64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=29.6 ms
23:28<Turl>from my node with ufw disabled
23:28<krmdrms>thanks Turl
23:28<Turl>np krmdrms
23:32<encode> <-- interesting
23:37<Turl>krmdrms: might you ping 2001:470:7:11a::2 ?
23:37<krmdrms>PING 2001:470:7:11a::2(2001:470:7:11a::2) 56 data bytes
23:37<krmdrms>ping: sendmsg: Operation not permitted
23:38-!-ansi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:38<krmdrms>i mean i couldn't ping:)
23:40-!-Turl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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23:47<amitz>krmdrms: that probably mean the firewall of computer you initiate the ping blocks it.
23:49<amitz>linbot, let's talk
23:49<krmdrms>amitz: you talking about !mtr thing?:)
23:49<amitz>who is "let's"? Why do you think that person invalid?
23:50<amitz>krmdrms: oh, probably yeah. but after reading it through it seems I'm not qualified to comment :-)
23:51<amitz>I'm asking a question here linbot, why don't you say something!
23:52<amitz>they say you're a highly develop AI, linbot. But I say you're just a stupid slave bot.
23:52<krmdrms>!f linbot
23:52<linbot>krmdrms: Sorry, I don't know anything about that
23:52<amitz>I can't imagine you taking over the world, linbot.
23:53<krmdrms>linbot for president
23:53<amitz>krmdrms: it can't handle the recursion. It will terminate itself while recursing :-)
23:53<amitz>stupid linbot.
23:55<amitz>!f skynet
23:55<linbot>amitz: an artificial intelligent system created by Cyberdyne Syetems which became self aware and revolted against its creators in the Terminator series of films
23:55-!-brainproxy [] has quit [Quit: brainproxy]
23:55<amitz>!f SelfishMan
23:55<linbot>amitz: SelfishMan is the resident arrogant prick (50.000%)
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 06 00:00:28 2009