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#linode IRC Logs for 2009-07-23

---Logopened Thu Jul 23 00:00:38 2009
---Daychanged Thu Jul 23 2009
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00:02<checkers>personally I'd make them upload elsewhere rather than use FTP nowadays
00:02<SelfishMan>is it furry porn?
00:03<SelfishMan>cuz if it is I have a place they can upload it
00:04-!-stubblejumper [] has joined #linode
00:05<kelvinq>totally unrelated to linode, but where do you guys go for dedicated hosting?
00:05-!-Bass10 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:05<kelvinq>is there a linode of dedicated hosting somewhere?
00:05<litwol|mac>kelvinq: you guy the 2000something plan
00:06<litwol|mac>Linode 2880
00:06<litwol|mac>2 slices of that gets you what ever you get on a fully dedicated box
00:07<stubblejumper>Trying to install Postgresql on an Ubuntu instance, but apt-get says can't find package. Does that mean i don't have apt-get installed? What's the command to install it?
00:07<kelvinq>litwol|mac: a little too expensive.
00:07<kelvinq>stubblejumper: can you paste your apt-get command here?
00:08<linbot>SelfishMan: Availability (2880): Atlanta - 10; Dallas - 10; Fremont - 0; Newark - 10; (0.05120) urmom says hi
00:08<stubblejumper>kelvinq, sudo apt-get install postgresql-8.3 postgresql-contrib-8.3
00:09<kelvinq>looks strange. wait.
00:11<kelvinq>stubblejumper: what do you get when you do this? -> sudo aptitude search postgresql-8.3
00:11<kelvinq>if you don't get errors, then just do this -> sudo aptitude install postgresql-8.3
00:12<stubblejumper>kelvinq I get E: Invalid operation search
00:13<stubblejumper>kelvinq oops, my bad, made a typo
00:13<kelvinq>are you sure?
00:13<kelvinq>yeah, np.
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00:23<oojacoboo>hey everyone, I would like to present a scenario and get your opinions on this...
00:24<megatron27>where are the IRC logs?
00:25<oojacoboo>consider that you have a very heavy application with a bulk database and you want to "fake" load balance some linodes. So, you put mysql on one linode system, and you setup another system for httpd. What kind of speed would you expect to get over the LAN for such a system, with queries being over the LAN? Also, what is the speed of the LAN and how do you access it? Does each linode have a lan IP, or what?
00:27<megatron27>wow, my IRC client is giving my name to the server
00:27<oojacoboo>Is there a Gig-E LAN to access and could you setup the mount as iSCSI?
00:29<amitz>megatron27: nice name, good conotation, nothing to be ashamed of :-)
00:29<stubblejumper>kelvinq, the solution was apt-get update.
00:29<megatron27>amitz: yeah but I don't want everyone to know my name :-)
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00:30<kelvinq>stubblejumper: heh. happens to me sometimes.
00:31<megatron27>I don't see a setting to disable it.
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00:36<@irgeek>oojacoboo: You need to add a private IP to each Linode (Network tab), configure them and reboot.
00:36<@irgeek>After that, it'll be fast enough.
00:37<oojacoboo>irgeek, what does that mean, is it gig-e ?
00:37<oojacoboo>also, can we mount imgs as iscsi, does your router support jumbo frames?
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00:38<@irgeek>The hosts are connected with Gb Ethernet but you can't hog all of it.
00:38<@irgeek>And no, you can't do jumbo frames.
00:38<oojacoboo>irgeek, without jumbo frame, iscsi is out of the question
00:38<oojacoboo>so your relegated to gig-e
00:38<@irgeek>It's possible. Jumbo frames are just for performance.
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00:39<oojacoboo>well, to get serious potential out of iscsi you need jumbo frames
00:39<oojacoboo>relegated means degraded/stuck with
00:39<@irgeek>Uh, no it doesn't.
00:40<oojacoboo>to assign to a place of insignificance or of oblivion
00:41<oojacoboo>irgeek, do you guys have any stats on remote LAN database queries?
00:41<@irgeek>We don't track what's going on inside customer's Linodes.
00:41<oojacoboo>my concern is that the LAN would be a serious bottleneck for performance with a database heavy application
00:42<@irgeek>Many customers do exactly what you're talking about.
00:42<oojacoboo>and you guys recommend nginx for software based load-balancing?
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00:43<@irgeek>We don't recommend anything. People use all sorts of configurations for load-balancing.
00:45<oojacoboo>ok, thanks irgeek for the help, that clears up a few questions. I just want to make sure we can stick with you guys as we grow
00:46<oojacoboo>having run a hosting company, I appreciate the work you guys are doing here, keep it up.
00:46<oojacoboo>cheers and ciao.
00:46<@irgeek>No worries.
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00:51<@irgeek>Wow. Every day, Google processes 20PB of data. That's also the total capacity of every hard drive manufactured in 1995.
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00:53<SelfishMan>damn, a few minutes too late
00:54<SelfishMan>You have to be doing some massive DB access for the LAN to be a performance bottleneck and at that point disk IO is more of an issue
00:54<stubblejumper>I've upgraded and updated my respository in Ubuntu, and sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jdk is not working. Any suggestions?
00:54<SelfishMan>Hell, I have a Linode that does queries to a mysql server at my office which is a few thousand miles away from the linode and queries complete in less than a quarter second
00:55<@irgeek>apt-cache search java
00:55<SelfishMan>stubblejumper: apt-get update
00:56<stubblejumper>SelfishMan, I did that.
00:56<SelfishMan>apt-cache search java
00:57-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has joined #linode
00:57<stubblejumper>SelfishMan, I did apt-cache search java, and I get a long list of all kinds of stuff. What am I looking for in the results?
00:57<SelfishMan>apt-cache search sun-java6-jdk
00:57<SelfishMan>shows up for me
00:59<stubblejumper>SelfishMan, nope, it's not showing up for me. Any idea why?
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01:02<@pparadis>stubblejumper: it's in the multiverse repository.
01:02<@irgeek>apt-cache search jdk
01:02<stubblejumper>Maybe it's because I need to enable the Multiverse repository? How do I do that from command prompt?
01:02<@pparadis>have a look at /etc/apt/sources.list
01:03<stubblejumper>pparadis, exactly, I just read that. How do I activate Multiverse?
01:03<@pparadis>if there are is already an entry for it, uncomment it.
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01:04<stubblejumper>pparadis, thank you!
01:08<clitalim>bob loblaw
01:10<@irgeek>Google is over there --->
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01:20<decourl>I was doing desktop sharing with someone today and he had preview images in his Google results. Turned out to be a browser plug-in.
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01:27<stubblejumper>pparadis, thank you! I added in the Multiverse repositories, and all is working fine now! :-)
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01:34<@pparadis>stubblejumper: good to hear :)
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01:54<amitz>megatron27: what IRC client do you use?
01:54<clitalim>i use irssi
01:56<@pparadis>my irssi ate your xchat
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02:00<amitz>pacman paradis
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02:01<sullen>anyone @ san diego comic convention?
02:02<@pparadis>COMICON! Yay!
02:02<sullen>woot woot
02:02<sullen>you here?
02:02<@pparadis>Raise the Roof
02:02<@pparadis>negative, but i've been to a few cons :)
02:02<sullen>lets go look for cheap sd hookers!
02:02<sullen>oh wait
02:03<@pparadis>i mean no...
02:03<sullen>i mean...
02:03<@pparadis>i do not recall.
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02:03<sullen>craiglist erotic section is no more so... guess gotta go walk the streets oh boo
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02:03<@pparadis>i wouldn't walk too many streets if i were you.
02:03*sullen moment of silence
02:04<@pparadis>unless you're well armed.
02:04<@pparadis>problem is, SD police are better armed, and sometimes as "off" as the dudes on the corner.
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02:04<sullen>i usually walk with my hands in my pockets so my ring and watch dont get peoples attention hah
02:04<@pparadis>maybe better to put those _in
02:05<sullen>yeah im chillin in the hyatt right now off some fools unsecured connection
02:05<@pparadis>_ your pocket and walk normally.
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02:05<sullen>can you believe they want 12.95/day for wifi?
02:05<@pparadis>pwned 802.11
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02:05<sullen>im like... errr...
02:05<@pparadis>i can't believe that's _all_ they want.
02:05<@pparadis>how much was the room?
02:05-!-brainproxy [] has quit []
02:05<@pparadis>my point exactly.
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02:05<sullen>its the hyatt on the same block as the convention center
02:06<sullen>expensive. :(
02:06<amitz>megatron27: I can change username in xchat. Maybe you can too?
02:06<@pparadis>funny, was talking to a co-worker about the rates there a couple of days ago.
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02:06<@pparadis>how many people are packed into that room ;) ?
02:06<sullen>its the manchester hyatt
02:06<sullen>nah its only my wife and i
02:06<sullen>i fucking wish she was down to pack the room like sardines
02:07<@pparadis>extra cool that your wife is there, could be cooler if the room was packed with other hot nerdy girls.
02:07<sullen>if i were up to me id be like on 19th street
02:07<sullen>preachin to the choir brotha
02:07<sullen>im like trying to go to the "vending" machine
02:07<@pparadis>add alcohol, and away ya go.
02:08<sullen>and im bummed im not smoking so i dont have a sexcu... err, excuse to go downstairs, haha.
02:08<@pparadis>time to start smoking again
02:08<sullen>im glad she doesnt smack me when im driving around and im like whoa
02:08<@pparadis>dude, she's at the con with you, she must be pretty cool to start with :D
02:08<sullen>cuz its been one of those WOAH days
02:09<@pparadis>i've got an awesome girl like that... she doesn't care how much i stare at / talk to / flirt with other girls, but the second one of them touches me she'll kill her.
02:09<sullen>yeah shes the one that wanted to come so here we are
02:09<sullen>this is true :(
02:09<@pparadis>speaking of smoking...
02:09*pparadis steps outside
02:10<sullen>im so glad i never smoked inside the house
02:11<amitz>pparadis: pparadis> i've got an awesome girl like that... she doesn't care how much i stare at / talk to / flirt with other girls, but the second one of them touches me she'll kill her. <== I'll consider a full body latex. Win!
02:11<amitz>thinnest one available.
02:11<sullen>i think this connection is getting raped - the only thing that works perfectly is my ssh session :(
02:12<sullen>amitz: i think pparadis is getting smacked by his girl right now
02:12<@pparadis>amitz: while i agree :), i have to give her _some_ consessions, plus i have to deal with dudes staring at her all the time too.
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02:15<linbot>New news from forums: OpenVPN DNS and Routing Issue in Linux Networking <>
02:16<amitz>sullen: And he doesn't love it? :-p
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02:36<amitz>damn, where is laohei.. *sigh*
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02:55<megatron27>amitz: can't seem to change it :-)
02:55<kelvinq>is there anyone here who has used pgtune before?
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05:12<JShepard>someone knoe tinymce web editor here?
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06:34<geekman>Anyone alive who knows a bit about PHP?
06:37<@irgeek>A bit.
06:39<geekman>I'm wanting to write myself a system, all of the user data is stored in a MySQL database, since I want it reasonably scalable, I'll be using memcached to reduce the use of MySQL for reads/writes. But my dilemma is this:
06:40<geekman>I'm going to have a class in PHP which handles all the session stuff, and stores all of the user's data as members within the class, but I was going to override PHP's file based session handler to use my own solution.
06:41<geekman>But I'm thinking that since I'll be storing all that data within the class anyway, and if I were to use $_SESSION, I'd just be loading it back into the class, should I just forget about PHP's session handler entirely and make my session class entirely separate?
06:43<fred>If you're wanting scalable, you don't want PHP's sessions anyway
06:43<fred>they don't scale to a multi-server setup
06:44<geekman>Even if I over-rode the default PHP session handler to use my own functions?
06:45<geekman>I mean, I could either write my session system completely separate, or I could integrate it so that it uses $_SESSION, but since I don't like using $ there really any point?
06:46<geekman>I think it's pretty obvious where I'm leaning...I just want to make sure I'm headed down the right path.
06:48<fred>well, you /are/ using PHP...
06:48*fred hides
06:49<geekman>Oh shoosh :P
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06:54<HoopyCat>if it's worth writing, it's worth writing in a real language. such as logo
06:55<HoopyCat>(need to scale horizontally? LEFT 90)
06:57<kelvinq>lol at HoopyCat!
07:09<fred>HoopyCat: lies, C++ :D
07:09<fred>(or intercal)
07:10<checkers>HoopyCat: very quotable
07:14<HoopyCat>checkers: worst thing is, i'm now pondering that as a front-end to the API... LEFT 90 PENDOWN FORWARD 360 to clone the current image onto a new linode 360...
07:19<Kerem>geekman: if you choose to store sessions in mysql you can still use $_SESSIONS and it fetch/store data in mysql. (if i understand your question correctly:))
07:31<geekman>I know I _can_
07:31<geekman>I just don't know that I want to :P
07:32<geekman>I think I'm going to...just to make things easier.
07:32<geekman>I'd have to come up with my own storage method etc... so it would just be more work for me to not use $_SESSION's.
07:33<geekman>The thing is that in the past when I've used PHP's session handler, before I tried to use any of that session data I would load it into a class and then not need the $_SESSION variable at all, then before the class was destructed I would re-store the session data, it's how I prefer to work with session data.
07:34<geekman>So this time I wasn't sure if there was a point to using PHP's session handler at all, since I'll be writing my own methods for overriding it anyway.
07:35<geekman>But, I suppose the ability to be lazier is reason enough...I hadn't thought far enough ahead to think about having to come up with a schema to store the session data in, so when I thought about that I figured that I might as well use an existing solution.
07:37<geekman>Since it would end up making things more flexible anyways, if I handled sessions completely on my own, chances are I'd have written the code more rigidly so it would not have been as easy to add new things to the user's session data.
07:37<geekman>But thanks!
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09:28<JshWright>I get the feeling it's gonna be one of those days...
09:29<HoopyCat>JshWright: the wtfness is directly proportional to your distance from the syracuse airport minus the possible reasons for said trucks to be there
09:29<jtsage>anybody know of a decent GUI irc client for osx? free. using ircle, and i'm less than impressed....
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09:30<JshWright>While I am darn close to the airport, I work for an engineering firm... and we don't have any airplanes....
09:31<HoopyCat>JshWright: the fire department nearest my old employer used to use the parking lots there for training... plenty of hydrants, some nice corners, and a landlord fully willing to enjoy free tree watering and parking lot hosedowns
09:32<HoopyCat>JshWright: i usually made it a point to mention "oh, and the fire department likes to do training here, so if you stop in during the evening and there's a bunch of firetrucks in the parking lot, don't panic" to new colo customers
09:32<JshWright>I suppose it's possible Crash Rescue is first due for our building and is doing a training walkthrough, I didn't think these guys were set up for structural stuff...
09:33<rainman`>are you sure there's no plane crashed into your building?
09:34<JshWright>rainman`: I haven't done a complete walkaround to make sure, but I haven't noticed any of the normal tell-tale signs...
09:37<rainman`>no kerosine smell
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09:38<grantshow>Hey all
09:38<JshWright>no large pieces of flaming wreckage, dismembered bodies, large holes in the building, etc...
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09:39<rainman`>JshWright, perhaps they were so efficient that it's all cleaned up already
09:39<rainman`>as a conspiracy
09:39<JshWright>I suppose it's possible...
09:39<rainman`>to prevent people from stopping to travel by plane
09:40<JshWright>However, I belong to a fire department that is on the box for any Alert 3 at the airport (an actual crash), so I expect I would have heard about it...
09:41<JshWright>well, I suppose there's no arguing with that logic... ;)
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09:44<@jed>so where can I get windows 7 RTM
09:44<@jed>I know a Linode customer has the MSDN hookup
09:45<@jed>I haz candy
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09:52<HoopyCat>always somewhat disconcerting when the first words of the top post on are the name of someone you know IRL
09:54<bob2>that is some big linode
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09:59<HoopyCat>speaking of which, it appears is in need of a minor kick
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10:04<erikh>jtsage: lots of poeple like colloquy
10:05<jtsage>erikh - i'll cehck it out. i did find the xchat fork for aqua. it's not bad. missing a few small features, but usable
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10:24<Trash>hi all
10:24<Trash>any idea appriciated
10:24<Trash>a ddos was started from my server
10:24<Trash>a cpanel based one
10:24<Trash>what can I do to prevent this?
10:24<Trash>firewall already installed
10:25<HoopyCat>job #1 is figuring out the nature of the ddos. how do you know you're under a ddos attack, and by what do you mean "a cpanel based one"?
10:25<JshWright>and what do you mean "from"?
10:25<@tychoish>and "started from" or "targeting"
10:26<JshWright>is someone DoSing you, or did you get pwned and someone is using your box to initiate other attacks?
10:26<HoopyCat>oh wait, started *from*. (might be time for coffee #2)
10:26<Trash>cpanel based means server with cpanel
10:26<Trash>some of my user started the ddos attack
10:27<Trash>I know cos my provider sent me an email
10:27<HoopyCat>if you believe cpanel was somehow involved in it, you might want to get in touch with cpanel support: they're the most likely ones to have seen/dealt with this before
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10:27<Trash>I mean its a server with cpanel control panel
10:28<HoopyCat>Trash: pastebin the output of "ps auxwww" and "netstat -np" (the latter you'll have to run as root, as the -p option maps sockets to processes)
10:31<bob2>first, kick the user off and disable their account
10:32-!-r3z [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:32<clitalim>and then find out where they live
10:32-!-apecat [~apecat@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:32<clitalim>and send them a mail bomb
10:32<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: dallas122 in System and Network Status <>
10:37-!-litwol|mac [~litwol|] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:37<Trash>will do shortly just fucking with ssh
10:37-!-nidankempo [~nidankemp@] has joined #linode
10:38<HoopyCat>speaking of ssh, wasn't there supposed to be a zomgzeroday by now?
10:38<JshWright>I thought that was yesterday...
10:39<Kerem>great commercial :)
10:39-!-mohney [] has joined #linode
10:39<mohney>mayday mayday - my linode's down and isn't responding to boot requests
10:40<HoopyCat>mohney: are you on dallas122 by chance?
10:40<mohney>i know i'm in dallas
10:40<mohney>my server i mean
10:40<mohney>but i dont know if it's 122
10:40<mohney>oh yes
10:40<HoopyCat>mohney: 10:32 linbot New news from forums: Reboot: dallas122 in System and Network Status <>
10:41<Bohemian>can someone give me the scp command for connecting to a different server to get files please
10:42<mohney>Hoopy there's a single point of failure for all linodes?
10:42<HoopyCat>mohney: should be a couple minutes (boot jobs aren't all submitted at once on a reboot, to keep the disks from choking)
10:42<mohney>I've sworn by your service for some time but i'm getting blown up like crazy from clients wondering why their sites are down -
10:43<mohney>lately i've been having some corrupt data issues as well - was going to submit a ticket when i had some time
10:43<HoopyCat>mohney: your linode exists on a single physical server, yes. you can (and should) set up failover if this is a significant problem
10:44<HoopyCat>Bohemian: scp -command-line-options-here source-file-specification-here destination-file-specification-here
10:46-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has joined #linode
10:53<Solver>mohney: consider setting up a monitoring system. You can get it to beep your phone if a site is down
10:53<Solver>I've used Nagios for years but an looking at Zabbix right now
10:53<Bohemian>should scp hang before it connects? how long is normal?
10:53<rainman`>you should actually set up something at a different host than linode, if you need high availability
10:54-!-Lawrence [~daisy@] has quit [Quit: Lawrence]
10:55<HoopyCat>if you like to keep it all on one platform, each linode datacenter operates independently of the others, so two different linode datacenters is probably a decent compromise to protect against run-of-the-mill disasters
10:56<Solver>it all depends on how 'high' the high availability is. very high availability is complicated and expensive
10:56<JshWright>I want OVER 9000 9's
10:56<HoopyCat>JshWright: well, you're going to need a lot of space ships and a couple thousand colonists...
10:56<erikh>one microsecond of downtime a year? :)
10:56<Solver>JshWright: then 'anycasting' is for you! :)
10:57<Solver>JshWright: just hand me your cheque book, it will save time ;)
10:57<erikh>Solver: beat my head against zabbix earlier this week
10:57<erikh>it's a pile of crap
10:57<Solver>erikh: I heard good reports before but now I'm wondering ;)
10:57<JshWright>Yes, I want my downtime to be less than the average connection latency for my customers
10:58-!-Trash [] has quit []
10:58<Bohemian>ssh: connect to host port 22: Connection timed out
10:58<erikh>which you'll find out if you have any experience configuring PHP applications and see the requirements they impose on you
10:58<Bohemian>any ideas?
10:58<Bohemian>that's during scp
10:59<HoopyCat>Bohemian: looks like is responding on port 22 for me. try adding the -v option for verbose output?
10:59<Bohemian>HoopyCat: so -rc ?
10:59<Bohemian>-rv ?
10:59<HoopyCat>Bohemian: yeah, if you're already using the -r option
10:59<HoopyCat>JshWright: my usual goal was to have the problem fix itself before someone could make it to my desk to ask "is something broken?"
11:00<JshWright>HoopyCat: so you can hoestly reply "No, everything's fine" and make them eventually question their sanity?
11:00<HoopyCat>JshWright: EXACTLY.
11:03<Bohemian>HoopyCat: here's the verbose line:
11:03<Bohemian>i'm connected to the host where the files are. is that right?
11:04-!-mohney [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:05<HoopyCat>Bohemian: if the files are in ~/public_html/fanographic/* and you want them to be at root@li102[...]www/, yes. what does "telnet 22" do?
11:06<Bohemian>HoopyCat: i don't know?
11:06<Bohemian>what did i do wrtong?
11:06<HoopyCat>Bohemian: it's possible there's some firewalling or whatnot going on. can you ssh root@ On job submission, returns the disk ID and job ID. Does not wait for
11:06<HoopyCat> job completion (see linode_job_list).
11:07<HoopyCat>copypasta FAIL
11:07<HoopyCat>Bohemian: can you ssh ?
11:07<Bohemian>trying that now
11:07<Bohemian>no :(
11:08<Bohemian>i guess i'll use sftp
11:08<HoopyCat>Bohemian: sftp won't work either if ssh traffic isn't making it through
11:08-!-zefster [] has joined #linode
11:08<Bohemian>it says on the webhost i can use sftp
11:09<HoopyCat>Bohemian: from your linode, can you scp -r yourlogin@theotherhost:public_html/fanographic/ /var/www/ ? it's possible they're blocking ssh out, especially if it's a web hosting sort of thing where outbound ssh traffic is usually trouble
11:10-!-litwol|mac [~litwol|ma@] has joined #linode
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11:11<Bohemian>thank you so much!
11:13<HoopyCat>'tis what i like about scp (and sftp)... if you can somehow ssh to both places, you can probably move files. :-)
11:13-!-tilthouse [] has joined #linode
11:14<erikh>it could also be tcp wrappers.
11:14<HoopyCat>rtucker@arrogant-bastard:~$ scp framboise:/tmp/picard-facepalm-hotlink.jpg hennepin:/tmp
11:14<Bohemian>what's that erikh ?
11:14<erikh>fail2ban is great at banning real people
11:14<erikh>Bohemian: man tcpd
11:14*litwol|mac head explodes from not understanding tcp udp wrappers foobarers aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
11:15-!-K-Zodron| [] has joined #linode
11:15<erikh>if tcpd doesn't have the documentation on hosts.deny/allow, it will tell you where to go
11:15<erikh>but damn near every service uses it, so they're good to learn and easy to master.
11:15-!-ahmeni [] has left #linode []
11:16<erikh>and if you have fail2ban on your system.... do yourself a favor and get rid of it
11:16<erikh>fail2ban/portsentry/etc are horrible excuses for bad network security
11:17<erikh>and a great way to lock yourself out, while providing no real benefit otherwise
11:17-!-Ghent [] has joined #linode
11:18<LinodeJavaUser>so speaking of excessive security that might be a bad idea...
11:18-!-LinodeJavaUser is now known as linoob
11:18<HoopyCat>i like where this is going
11:18<linoob>I was playing with the idea of having flood protection on ssh
11:19<linoob>like... if the system gets more than x requests within y minutes, it locks down the ssh
11:19<linoob>*the ssh login
11:19<erikh>that's basically what both of those tools do
11:20<linoob>*goes to read about fail2ban*
11:20<erikh>you're just gonna lock yourself out :) and if someone wants to flood you, they'll find some other way.
11:20<linoob>but I don't have ftp enabled
11:20<linoob>ssh is the only access
11:21<linoob>sftp ftw
11:21<HoopyCat>linoob: i use denyhosts, but as more of a log-cleaning and abuse-monitoring tool
11:21<HoopyCat>locked myself out once; i no longer lock myself out :-)
11:21<erikh>yeah, portsentry has a great "anal" detection mode that got me a few times with nmap
11:22<linoob>psh. I just keep a list of server info (w/ passwords) in a textfile locally. I'm only worried about online attacks, not IRL ones
11:22-!-K-Zodron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:22<erikh>see, you could always limit your logins to key only
11:22<HoopyCat>linoob: there's software that'll keep passwords a little more securely. (also, passwords for logging in? what?)
11:23<erikh>that'd solve a lot of your "flooding" concerns right there
11:23-!-Lawrence [~daisy@] has joined #linode
11:23<erikh>no one's gonna flood you on port 22 if they have no chance of brute forcing your account passwords
11:23<linoob>HoopyCat: what's confusing you about me using passwords...
11:23<HoopyCat>erikh: they will, they just have no chance :-)
11:24<erikh>yeah, I guess a poorly coded automated system would
11:24<linoob>HoopyCat: isn't it a good idea to stay one step ahead of the hackers?
11:24<erikh>keep your system patched
11:24<linoob>afterall, they always seem to be a step ahead of the general populus
11:24<HoopyCat>linoob: keys work darned well and make life much easier
11:24<erikh>yes, it's that easy
11:24<JshWright>denyhosts seems like the easiest way to keep a bunch of junk out of your auth logs
11:25<amitz>linoob: keeping ahead of hackers is a painful effort.
11:25<linoob>amitz: falling behind them can be even more painful
11:25<amitz>linoob: depending on how important it is, I'll just use the jungle rule:
11:26<linoob>what are you guys talking about using "keys" instead of "passwords"?
11:26-!-K-Zodron| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:26<amitz>I'll be faster than the slowest bunch :-)
11:26<linoob>lol, I suppose that will work most of the time
11:26-!-K-Zodron [] has joined #linode
11:26<HoopyCat>apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, don't accept password logins, know your system and what's running on it, keep good backups, keep privledges separated as much as possible
11:27<amitz>!search ssh key
11:27<linbot>amitz: (search <word>) -- Searches for <word> in the current configuration variables.
11:27<HoopyCat>!google ssh rsa key authentication
11:27<linbot>HoopyCat: Search took 0.42 seconds: OpenSSH Public Key Authentication: <>; Public Key Authentication Problems: <>; Setting up public key authentication over SSH: <>; SSH : Public- Key Authentication: < (2 more messages)
11:28<HoopyCat>linoob: in short, you authenticate yourself to unlock your private key, which then "proves" your identity to remote hosts that have your public key
11:29<erikh>yep, all the short secrets are entered locally, and nothing is shared
11:30<linoob>interisting... *reads*
11:32<HoopyCat>a little bit ago when i did that scp command to copy a remote file to a remote location, i had to enter no passwords. even better, if i ssh to framboise, i can ssh/scp to hennepin and the authentication works too since i already proved myself to my PC
11:32<HoopyCat>sudo still takes passwords, of course, but that's not a bad thing...
11:32<@tychoish>HoopyCat: add yourself to the wheel group, or whatever, ;)
11:32<linoob>fun. so it's kind of like a cookie based auth?
11:33<@tychoish>linoob thats' one way of thinking about it, but it's more secure, I think
11:33*linoob keeps reading
11:33<HoopyCat>tychoish: i could, but i kinda like that second layer
11:33<@tychoish>HoopyCat: yeah. that makes sense
11:34<@tychoish>irgeek told me about the flag in your ssh config that keeps the connection open, and yeah. way awesome
11:34<@tychoish>ControlMaster ControlPath
11:35<linoob>tychoish: what's the flag?!
11:35<HoopyCat>only downside: doesn't work through screen, best as i've been able to figure out
11:36<amitz>ssh in general is cool stuff. one thing about ssh that surprised me was the entropy thingie. Make sense yet somewhat surreal.. It's like a digital world meets reality.
11:36<@tychoish>don't worry about it, it's... sort of esoteric
11:36<@tychoish>and I used SSH a lot for years before I realized about it
11:36<amitz>the idea that I must add entropy from outside world by moving my mouse and keyboard. It's like the joke that a program may run faster if I shake the mouse :-p
11:37<HoopyCat>tychoish: wow, had no idea that was there
11:37<HoopyCat>amitz: you must be running windows :-)
11:37<@tychoish>HoopyCat: "through" screen where you have ssh sessions inside of screen?
11:37<@tychoish>or where you're pulling screen over ssh
11:38<linoob>amitz: programs totally run faster when you shake them...
11:38<HoopyCat>tychoish: i ssh from my PC to framboise, where i run screen; ForwardAgent doesn't work if i ssh from within that screen to other places
11:38<linoob>amitz: I think it might have to do with forcing the program to redraw it's gui in some cases
11:38<@tychoish>I guess that makes sense. that kinda thing makes my head hurt :p
11:38<linoob>(like if a program is borderline frozen)
11:38<HoopyCat>tychoish: i know why it doesn't work; i'm just not sure how to fix it ;-)
11:38<HoopyCat>unrelatedly, why is it HOTTER THAN PLUCK in here
11:39<HoopyCat>linoob: you must be running windows :-)
11:39<linoob>D: ... ;o; so mean
11:39-!-zefster [] has quit [Quit: zefster]
11:40<linoob>I'm on leopard ty vry much. I can at least open a linux-based prompt in Terminal
11:40<erikh>HoopyCat: can you get screen to clone the environment for you?
11:40<amitz>well, at that time I was confused why connection to an experimental server ssh is timing out (I was using "Expect") when I wasn't there yet always connect successfully when I was there.
11:40<HoopyCat>erikh: probably, BUT i'm not sure how well that'd work with reattaches
11:40<erikh>that *should* be all you need
11:40<erikh>ah, very good point.
11:41-!-elfgoh [] has joined #linode
11:41<HoopyCat>that said, if it clones the environment of where it was reattached into new screens, that would solve 95% of the problem
11:41<HoopyCat>there's really no need to "/exec -o ssh someotherhost uptime" in irssi...
11:42*linoob has gone idle
11:42<amitz>it turns out that when I was there, I move the keyboard and mouse of the experimental server thus ssh connection is faster thus not timing out.
11:42-!-tilthouse [] has quit [Quit: tilthouse]
11:43*linoob is evolving
11:43-!-linoob is now known as linpro
11:44-!-linpro is now known as linoob
11:44<linoob>k, I'm done being distracting. sry
11:44-!-Twayne [] has joined #linode
11:44*HoopyCat gets shipping notice for shipment that arrived yesterday
11:45<HoopyCat>well, at least they tried
11:46-!-r3z [] has joined #linode
11:46<Yaakov>I AM NOT DONE
11:46<linoob>and that, ladies and gentlemen is why the government should not run things like medicine
11:47<amitz>HoopyCat: they should be praised for making the shipment so fast..
11:48<linoob>wow, nobody wants to argue politics. what kind of a place is this?!?!
11:48<HoopyCat>amitz: i had the machine back up and running less than 24 hours after it failed. i am totally praising their actual deliverables, but i like to get a tracking number so i can put pants on before the UPS guy nears :-)
11:48<purrdeta>linoob: its not worth it?
11:48<purrdeta>HoopyCat: LOL
11:49<linoob>pants are overrated
11:49<linoob>just be like... "what a coincidence, I've got a package for you too"
11:49<HoopyCat>linoob: i've already argued that twice this week, so i'm on probation
11:49<purrdeta>just answer the door naked.
11:49<linoob>hoopycat: ah, okay
11:50<HoopyCat>i'm sure it's nothing they haven't seen before
11:51<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Don't be so modest, it's not *nothing*.
11:51<HoopyCat>in reality, i was fully clothed (remember that door sill that needed painting? underway), but the UPS guy seemed somewhat miffed i went down the path of saying "good afternoon", "thank you", etc, because it caused about a two-second delay :-)
11:52<purrdeta>unfortunately they frown upon not wearing pants to work :/
11:52<Bohemian>will linode let me register another domain?
11:52<Bohemian>or do i need to use a registrar?
11:52<purrdeta>use a registrar
11:53-!-r3z [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:54<JshWright>Bohemian: linode will let you, they just don't provide registrar services, so you would have a hard time doing it through them
11:54<Bohemian>can you recommend one other than godaddy?
11:54<KingTarquin>namecheap are alright.
11:54<linoob>bohemian: I like bulkregister
11:55-!-mattikus [] has joined #linode
11:55<megatron27>reminds me of the first episode of Malcom in the Middle :-)
11:55<Bohemian>can someone recommend a guide which will show me how to set up SSL in apache?
11:55<HoopyCat>Bohemian: i use, 'tho there was a forum post a short while back that hashed over this a bit. ('tis a fairly personal-preference question)
11:55<Bohemian>wow, godaddy raised their price
11:56*Solver likes
11:57<HoopyCat>oh my god my brain is going to turn to mush... but only one more to go
11:57<erikh>1and1 has smart engineers
11:57<erikh>stay the hell away from
11:57<erikh>worked with both behind the scenes at my last job
11:57<Solver>$EMPLYER is using them and I'm going to push for a switch
11:57<HoopyCat>if you need customer service or smart engineers from your registrar, switch registrars
11:58<erikh>HoopyCat: is a complete truckload of fail
11:58<megatron27>in what situations would the choice of registrar matter?
11:58<HoopyCat>erikh: i did not say otherwise :-)
11:58<Solver>megatron27: when you want reliability or clue
11:58<Solver>capabilities of registrars vary a lot
11:59<Solver>in terms of how they deal with a problem
11:59<megatron27>so some have unreliable servers then?
11:59<HoopyCat>megatron27: pricing, availability of TLDs, glue policies, ease of use, value-add features (e.g. private registration)...
11:59-!-r3z [] has joined #linode
11:59<Solver>more about unreliable service/clue when it all goes pair shaped
11:59<linoob>ah yes, some will act as the middle man for your public contact info
12:00<linoob>good for privacy
12:00<Solver>if the registrar blows up your domain it is fscked so the speed with which they can fix the problem is important
12:00<HoopyCat>once your domain is registered, your registrar does absolutely nothing involving actual performance of your domain (aside from completely messing it up)
12:00<Solver>exactly ;)
12:00<megatron27>what do you mean by performance of your domain?
12:00<Solver>I've had situations where I could not redelegate a domain
12:00<Solver>when the old nameservers were going away
12:01<linoob>All the registrar has to do is tell other nodes what nameservers are registered for particular domans, right?
12:01<Solver>they often have value added services like running the nameservers, but I always run my own
12:02<HoopyCat>megatron27: (assuming you're using third-party nameservers,) your registrar is not involved in the handling of DNS requests for your domain
12:02<Solver>but being unable to redelegate is very bad. it was a bug at the registrar
12:02<megatron27>I didn't give it much thought when I chose my registrar, I chose namecheap because I saw their name being thrown around a lot
12:02<Solver>and only seems to allow 2 glue records
12:02<Solver>per domain
12:03<schmichael>argh, "zabbix" overlaps a hilight... need to work on my regexes...
12:03<HoopyCat>megatron27: if you're happy with them, their pricing, their interface, and their ability to make changes you need them to make, no problem
12:03*Solver agrees with HoopyCat
12:03<Solver>like I saidm I like
12:04<Solver>not the cheapest, respond to queries quickly, stuff works when it is supposed to, interface is not full of ads
12:05<Solver>I only wish they did .au and .ca. If they did I'd move all my domains there
12:07<HoopyCat>yeah, +/- a few bucks/year isn't worth making price the #1 concern, although if you're paying $35/year to networksolutions, i'd say you should probably move
12:09<linoob>is there a way to do domain redirects in apache's config without using .htaccess?
12:09<henderb>do it in the vhost config
12:09<HoopyCat>linoob: in the server configuration file
12:10<linoob>hoopycat: okay, but how?
12:10<Bohemian>i need to remove write permissions. is that chmod 444?
12:10<Bohemian>or 744?
12:11-!-kelvinq [] has quit [Quit: kelvinq]
12:11<clitalim>read = 4 write = 2 exec = 1
12:11<HoopyCat>linoob: offhand, i don't know, but the syntax will be almost identical to .htaccess i believe
12:11<Bohemian>clitalim: huh? never done chmod with a 2 or 1?
12:11<clitalim>you add the digits
12:11<Yaakov>HoopyCat: My first domain in 1995 cost me 100/yr.
12:12<Bohemian>clitalim: oh sweet. thank you!
12:12<clitalim>744 = o+rwx g+rx a+rx
12:12-!-Damianz [~Damian@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
12:12<clitalim>no x
12:12<clitalim>smoked a big joint before coming to work today
12:12<clitalim>little bit slow
12:12<HoopyCat>Yaakov: my first domain in <1995 cost me $0. i forget what and when it was...
12:12-!-Damianz [~Damian@] has joined #linode
12:13<HoopyCat>clitalim: good thing this channel isn't pubically logged and indexed, eh? :-)
12:13<linoob>bohemian: you can use an easier syntax for chmod
12:13<clitalim>HoopyCat: my bosses boss sold me the weed
12:15<linoob>so that your prompt would be "chmod a-r /yourfilepath"
12:15<clitalim>that isn't easier
12:15<clitalim>that's just stupidity
12:15<linoob>it's easier than memorizing the numbers
12:15<clitalim>no it isn't
12:15<clitalim>4 = read 2 = write 1 = exec
12:15<clitalim>not tough
12:15<linoob>but also needless memorizing
12:16<clitalim>you're an absolute idiot
12:16<JshWright>yeah... that's _totally_ easier than remembering r,w,x
12:16<clitalim>you know what else is easieR?
12:16<clitalim>using webmin
12:16<clitalim>apt-get install webmin
12:16<clitalim>why even use ssh? why remember it?
12:16<Yaakov>Webmin doesn't set file permissions.
12:16<clitalim>i'm sure it could.
12:17<Yaakov>Webmin is very useful for many of the things it *does* do, though.
12:17<JshWright>are there security implications of using r,w,x rather than 4,2,1?
12:17<clitalim>JshWright: not at all
12:17<clitalim>not at all
12:17<Yaakov>JshWright: The rwx syntax allows for more sane global changes, so yes.
12:18<linoob>and it also lets you add or subtract permissions without resetting the whole permission string
12:18-!-iicsa [] has joined #linode
12:19<Yaakov>It's more complex but more intelligent.
12:19<linoob>idk if I'd go that far... but I do like it
12:20<JshWright>linoob: that's what YAa Kov meant, you can add or subtract a certain permission from a whole tree of files with heterogeneous permissions
12:20-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:20<Yaakov>No, it is. It can be used to selectively prune or add permissions based on Owner/Group/World and respects defaults.
12:20<linoob>JshWright: oooh, I wondered what he meant ^^'
12:20<Yaakov>Ask SpaceHobo, he can rant for hours on symbolic vs. absolute mode in chmod.
12:21<Yaakov>caker: PING
12:21<Yaakov>SpaceHobo: That's not the story you used to tell.
12:21<linoob>yaakov: he's just testing you
12:22<Yaakov>I have test anxiety.
12:23-!-tilthouse [] has joined #linode
12:24<Bohemian>how do i search for a line of text in linux?
12:24-!-iicsa [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:24-!-LordMetroid [] has joined #linode
12:25<Pryon>assuming you meant "in a file"
12:29<linoob>doesn't find also search the contents of files unless you specify -name?
12:30<linoob>what's the difference between that and grep?
12:30<Pryon>no, that's for specifying the names of files
12:30<linoob>right. I said "unless you specify -name"
12:30<Pryon>find finds files, it doesn't do any content processing
12:30<Pryon>(unless you specify it via -exec)
12:31<Pryon>Even then, find isn't doing it
12:31<linoob>so why does it take so much longer when you don't use -name?
12:31<linoob>is it searching headers?
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12:31-!-Viking [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:31-!-oli [~oli@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:31<Pryon>because then it returns all files matching other criteria. With -name, it returns a smaller set
12:32-!-girishr_ [~girish@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:32<Pryon>I would dispute an assertion that a find with -name is faster assuming cache conditions are equivalent
12:33-!-oli [~oli@] has joined #linode
12:33<Yaakov>What is you don't have any spare cash? You might have to go with the cheaper option.
12:33*Pryon hits Yaakov's cache
12:33<Yaakov>Oh, I misheard you!
12:34<linoob>Pryon: on my linux server, find -name takse about a second whereas find without -name takes about 40 seconds I think
12:34-!-Bohemian [~Bohemian@] has quit [Quit: Bohemian]
12:34<TheJoe>17:33 * Pryon hits Yaakov's cache <-- Euphemism
12:34<linoob>o.o' *double checks*
12:34<Yaakov>And heck, at last report, wasn't particularly broken.
12:36<linoob>okay, so "find / test" takes 5 seconds, and "find / -name test" takes 1 second
12:36<Pryon>There's probably something going on with cache in that situation. It doesn't make sense for an operation which requires more processing to take less time. Are you sure you're accounting for the time it takes the -nameless query to print all of its output? That's the only really likely advantage
12:36<linoob>and the former returns hundreds of results
12:36<linoob>whereas the latter only returns 3
12:36<Pryon>You are almost certainly using disk cache the 2nd time
12:37<linoob>ah, yes. I see. the printing is probably the issue
12:37<linoob>good sleuthing detective
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12:42*Pryon waxes his moustache foppishly
12:45<Pryon>Oh SQL, how do I hate thee? Let me count the ways. Unfortunately, the set is an aleph 1.
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12:53<erikh>sql is awesome
12:55-!-kenichi [~kenichi@] has joined #linode
12:56<randallman>Bah, people should have never went relational and should have stayed with GDBM :) (not)
12:58<erikh>sql is kind of like lisp
12:58<erikh>everyone hates it and then is doomed to reinvent it
12:58<erikh>as opposed to just... learning it
13:01-!-MJCS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:02<HoopyCat>i inner joined urmom last night
13:04*rainman` does not hate sql
13:04-!-MJCS [] has joined #linode
13:04<linbot>rainman`: Yo momma's so cheap, she sublets a 360! (740:4/0) [mrmuo]
13:11-!-hercynium [~hercynium@] has joined #linode
13:11<Pryon>erikh: you're right. If I actually knew SQL I'd probably not find it so distasteful
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13:14<rainman`>but why write sql, if there is ORM?
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13:16<kelvinq>rainman`: i like that line. how i wish my devs believe in that.
13:17<erikh>... because sooner or later your app is going to break, or your ORM is going to be underpowered, or you're going to have to optimize your ORMs output
13:17<erikh>all which require you know SQL.
13:17<rainman`>erikh, that's something different than writing lots of sql :)
13:18*rainman` does benefit a lot from his sql knowledge when debugging ORM though
13:18<erikh>yeah, but that's the time when you need to know sql well :)
13:18<kelvinq>yes, but prototype in orm first, sql-wizard it later (only when necessary).
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13:41<bronson>I'm getting this error on boot:
13:41<bronson>Error 20: Multiboot kernel must be loaded before modules
13:41<bronson>I assume my grub/menu.lst is screwed up? Anyone see this before?
13:41<Turl>bronson: using grub2?
13:42<Turl>idk much about this, but linux kernels use 'linux' on grub2
13:42<HoopyCat>bronson: do you need a initrd possibly?
13:42<bronson>HoopyCat, I think I have one.
13:42<bronson>I'll paste my menu.lst
13:46<bronson>HoopyCat, here is my menu.lst:
13:46<bronson>I think that's the right syntax... Anaconda wrote it anyway.
13:47-!-sgowtham [] has joined #linode
13:48<sgowtham>hello dear fellow linoders - i need your help (again)
13:48<sgowtham>I run CentOS 4.x, with properly installed, configured, working instance of WordPress 2.8.2
13:48-!-K-Zodron| is now known as K-Zodron
13:48<HoopyCat>bronson: i'm not 100% sure pvgrub supports multiboot kernels, but you can try adding --type=multiboot to the kernel line to see if that motivates it (assuming, of course, you're using a multiboot kernel)
13:49<bronson>hm, this is the first I've heard of multiboot.
13:49<sgowtham>However, I have never been able to upgrade/update plugins from within WordPress Admin Console - Error message reads "Failed to connect to FTP Server servername:21"
13:49<Turl>sgowtham: do you run an ftp server?
13:49<bronson>this machine booted a few months ago. Did linode change pv_grub?
13:50<bronson>trying --multiboot...
13:50<sgowtham>Turl: i did open that port (20 & 21) via iptables
13:50<HoopyCat>bronson: not that i know of, but 2.6.18-128.1.1.el5.028stab062.3xen was compiled may 10, so it's possible centos changed your menu.lst since last boot
13:50<Turl>sgowtham: but do you run an ftp server?
13:50<sgowtham>and I am able to connect to the server via sftp command from a terminal
13:51<Turl>sgowtham: ftp != sftp
13:51<sgowtham>Turl: let me check
13:51<Turl>sgowtham: you might want to check the 'ssh' option on the wordpress ui when updating
13:51<Turl>ssh is sftp for wordpress
13:52<bronson>HoopyCat, I tried installing that kernel because I couldn't boot. Wish I'd saved the old menu.lst.
13:53<sgowtham>Turl: thank you for your insight - i notice now, upon starting vsftpd, that i can update via FTP & SFTP
13:53<Turl>np sgowtham :)
13:54<HoopyCat>bronson: worth noting is that default=1 in your config, which SHOULD be telling it to use the second kernel there... hmm. try commenting out the stabby kernel stanza?
13:54-!-syntaxman [~wade@] has joined #linode
13:55<bronson>that's true, I did want the second kernel.
13:55<bronson>ok, trying.
13:55-!-sgowtham [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:56<HoopyCat> ... oh google, how i love thee
13:56-!-kelvinq [] has quit [Quit: kelvinq]
13:56-!-elfgoh [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:56<erikh>HoopyCat: hah!
14:02<Twayne>HoopyCat: why yes i did!
14:11<SelfishMan>I keep clicking the corrected link but it never takes me to a different page
14:11<SelfishMan>What's wrong?
14:11<HoopyCat>Please See Other Side
14:12<SelfishMan>and then...
14:12*silverblade turns the IRC window around
14:12<HoopyCat>Please See Other Side
14:12<SelfishMan>and then...
14:12<silverblade>AAANNDD THEEENNNN
14:12<bd_>SelfishMan: You're not clicking hard enough.
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14:14<HoopyCat>"""Earlier this month, Missouri passed a breach notification law as part of on omnibus package of laws under HB 62, a few paragraphs after the law that bans beer-bongs on rivers in Missouri [1]."""
14:15*SelfishMan attempts to parse that statement
14:16<HoopyCat>"""Earlier this month, Missouri passed a breach notification law as part of on omnibus package of laws under HB 62. It's a few paragraphs after the law that bans beer-bongs on rivers in Missouri [1]."""
14:16<HoopyCat>sorry about that, they boffed up proofreading/editing of it and i picked the wrong path to fix the problem
14:18<HoopyCat>curiously, the perp has to acquire both names AND nifty useful numbers, which makes it a little useless... turns out you don't need names to do ACH transactions
14:19<JshWright>Have I somehow enabled /ignore_half_of HoopyCat?
14:19<HoopyCat>JshWright: which half?
14:20<JshWright>the half that makes sense, I think
14:20<SelfishMan>JshWright: No. He only hits enter on half the stuff he types
14:20<HoopyCat>half? that's being charitable
14:22-!-Guest94 is now known as meff
14:22-!-meff is now known as Guest278
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14:25<randallman> paragraphs after the law that bans beer-bongs on rivers in Missouri
14:25<randallman>That's awesome :)
14:25<randallman>No beer funneling on the mississippi or missouri rivers now?
14:25<randallman>Shucks :)
14:26<chip>can you guys tell me how to set my nameservers for godaddy?
14:26<chip>to point to linode?
14:26<chip>I want my own custom ns
14:26<chip>can you tell me how to point it to linode?
14:27<randallman>You want you delegate your domain name to linode's nameservers?
14:27<reillyeon>chip: in the domain settings page on godaddy you set the nameservers to, etc.
14:27<chip>is there a way I can have my own nameservers?
14:28<chip>for instance
14:28<reillyeon>chip: you can run bind on your linode
14:28<reillyeon>and use linode's servers as backups
14:29<chip>sorry complete noob :((
14:29<reillyeon>Bind is nameserver software.
14:29<chip>oh ok
14:29<reillyeon>Since you're just starting I suggest you just use linode's servers.
14:29-!-sc0field [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:29<randallman>If you dont know what bind is, you probably do not want to run your own nameservers
14:31<chip>thx for the tip
14:31<Yaakov>chip: Why do you want your own nameserver?
14:33<chip>not sure
14:33<chip>it would be cool to have it I guess
14:33<randallman>For learning, sure
14:34<randallman>Step one would be for you to setup bind as a recursor only
14:34<randallman>sort of your own caching nameserver
14:34<randallman>understand what's going on under the hood
14:34<chip>hey in dns manager in my linode account do you think I can set my nameservers there?
14:34<randallman>before you put your own zone(s) at risk
14:34<reillyeon>chip: it wouldn't do anything
14:34<chip>I see
14:34<randallman>I've never used the DNS manager.... I just setup the PTR record and that's it
14:34<reillyeon>unless you just set it as nameserver for a subdomain
14:34<randallman>and then I use for my forward lookups
14:34<chip>thank you guys so much
14:35<randallman>'custom DNS'
14:35<randallman>I guess the linode DNS manager is a lot like that? w/o the dynamic update stuff?
14:35<reillyeon>randallman: right
14:35<randallman>Hell, I am a registrar.... I dunno why I pay someone else to do it :)
14:35<randallman>over 300,000 gTLD domains :)
14:35-!-daMaestro [] has joined #linode
14:35<randallman>Probably best not to mix business and pleasure tho
14:36<Yaakov>randallman: Register MY domain!
14:36<randallman>heh what is YOUR domain :p
14:36<Yaakov>I'll PayPal you a dollar!
14:36<randallman>Haha nice :)
14:36<randallman>I think that's about what we pay for a com/net :)
14:36<Yaakov>Cost covered!
14:36<randallman>$1.00/yr :P
14:37<chip>can you guys check if is working for you?
14:37<linbot>Yaakov: [dig] status: NOERROR | ;; ANSWER SECTION: 3600 IN A | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION 3600 IN NS 3600 IN NS
14:37<randallman> 3600 IN A
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14:39<chip>I unfortunately outgrew my webhost
14:39<chip>now moving to linode
14:39<randallman>Right now it's 'parked'
14:39<randallman>'This web page is parked FREE courtesy of GoDaddy'
14:40<chip>so i should point my ns to
14:41<amj>Hi. I'm seeing DDOS traffic on linode12581@newark56 from 4 IPs. How do I go about getting it blocked upstream?
14:43<randallman>Hmm chip
14:43<randallman>I think a good start would be changing your WWW 'a' record
14:43<randallman>Im not sure wht you want to do
14:43<randallman>do you currently accept e-mail at this domain?
14:43<randallman>and if so, do you intend to keep it hosted wherever it is hosted now.
14:44-!-sc0field [] has joined #linode
14:45<amj>It's all http traffic. Blocked them via firewall, but now hitting fromother ips.
14:45<phennessy>i'd submit a ticket
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14:46<phennessy>hi randallman :)
14:46<amj>Just doing that, thanks.
14:46<randallman>na na na na na na na na, na na na na na na na na PAT MAN
14:47<randallman>Ok sorry, that was over the top
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14:49<randallman>Pat, you ever heard of 3par storage?
14:49<randallman>My mgr. wants me to entertain a dog and pony from them,
14:50<phennessy>ooo, cloud storage
14:50<phennessy>sounds better than fibre channel
14:51<randallman>web2.0 storage platform! :p
14:51<randallman>we'd be lucky if all of the block level data was actually stored as XML
14:51<randallman>and we use XSLT to convert it to little endian block data :)
14:52<randallman>someone please stab me in the eye, NOW... :)
14:52<phennessy>sales people are annoying
14:52<silverblade>if i workedin sales id kill myself
14:53<randallman>Some sales dudes are cool
14:53<randallman>they sure do know how to party :)
14:53<silverblade>cos of all the money they make off people
14:53<randallman>All of the sales dudes at the company I worked for in manhattan were alcoholic cokeheads with a penchant for strip clubs :)
14:53<silverblade>cokeaholic alcoheads
14:53<randallman>Ill take 2 of the 3 above :)
14:54-!-laser` [] has joined #linode
14:54<randallman>Nice SB :0
14:54<silverblade>sounds like a band name
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14:57<Smark>So, I've got a question... I've got 3 domains that all need to go to one, preferably redirecting. After I setup all the DNS information, is it possible to setup a 301 redirect without having to actually create a .htaccess and such? IE can I specify 301 in the <VirtualHost> file so I dont have to make a htdocs/logs directory for that domain?
14:58<phennessy>google for "apache redirect"
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15:06<purrdeta>What are the chances of us getting a history of logins to our manager accounts with IP addresses
15:06<phennessy>if you turn on the whitelist security thing, you can edit/view the list
15:07<phennessy>not exactly a history though
15:07<purrdeta>you can view the list?
15:07<purrdeta>I want a history but how can you rview the list? :P
15:07<purrdeta>nvm I fount it
15:07<randallman>Smark, hmm there's 800 ways to skin that can
15:08<randallman>echo "Location:\n\n"
15:08<randallman>exit 0
15:08<Smark>i've figured it out randallman, "Redirect 301 /"
15:08<randallman>Yeah that works too :0
15:08<randallman>I'd rather write a fortran application forit
15:08<randallman>and compile it :)
15:08<Smark>anyway, can you specify multiple <VirtualHost> directives in one sites-enabled file?
15:09<Nivex>echo -en "302 Moved\r\nLocation:\r\n"
15:09<randallman>sites-enabled is an abstraction
15:09<Nivex>if we're being pedantic
15:09<randallman>Nivex, nice :)
15:09<Smark>i figured they were just Included in all the config
15:09<randallman>only with gnu echo tho? :P
15:09<randallman>bash builtin rather?
15:09<randallman>Smark, yaeh it's a total abstraction - you can put an entire httpd.conf and 800 vhosts in one sites-enabled file
15:09<Nivex>I was thinking more of the fact that you forgot the 302 before the Location header
15:10<randallman>Yeah I did oops
15:10<Nivex>of course I forgot the empty line
15:10<randallman>he wanted a 301 too
15:10<Nivex>so I guess we're even
15:10<randallman>Ok we both suck :) Pontificate that beyotch! :0
15:10<randallman>:) :)
15:11<silverblade>do what with what now
15:11<randallman>' Do hua? '
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15:23<erikh>I can't believe I'm about to get yelled at because a) I want to put IMAP behind the vpn and b) because that makes it inaccessible from someone's blackberry
15:24<randallman>ha ha
15:24<phennessy>don't crackberries have vpn support?
15:24<randallman>my manager is trying to make me deploy fscking active sync
15:24<randallman>on our new exchange 2k7 box.
15:24<randallman>so he can iPhone syn
15:24<randallman>pat, bberries use BES :)
15:24<randallman>or blackberry personal...
15:24<phennessy>no idea what that is
15:24<randallman>Blackberry Enterprise Server?
15:25<randallman>when I surf the web from my bberry, it originates from my company's network
15:25<randallman>not from Verizon
15:25<randallman>so it's essentially a VPN from my crackberry to the BES
15:25<phennessy>if you have a BES server
15:25<randallman>and exchange is directly connected to the bes (or vice versa actually)
15:25<randallman>Yes... and if you dont - go buy an iPhone :)
15:25<erikh>well i'm coding here too
15:25<phennessy>.. check!
15:26<erikh>so I told him, "the more services I have to maintain outside the firewall, the less time I have to work on your code"
15:26<erikh>now he's crying
15:26<erikh>well, as literal as you can get over IM
15:26<erikh>I love how he admits he's non-technical but wants dominion over every aspect of this thing
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15:39<erikh>"compromise", he's insisting I forward all work email to his gmail.
15:40-!-dzjepp [] has joined #linode
15:41<phennessy>didn't Palin do that to avoid FOIA?
15:43<laser`>Didn't Palin do that because she's a retard?
15:43<laser`>And not really understand the FOIA
15:43<rainman`>same difference
15:45-!-EAS [] has joined #linode
15:48<HoopyCat>few things piss me off more than getting the ol' unsupported-browser middle finger on a web site, spoofing my useragent, and then using said web site with no problems oncesoever
15:49<HoopyCat>well, ok, dropping a screw down a vent or stubbing a toe is pretty bad too
15:50-!-dax [~dax@] has joined #linode
15:51<silverblade>i had been tempted once to have a little notification bar in the style of the IE "did you notice this?!??" thing at the top of my pages, when IE is detected, that informs the user their browsing experience could be better by using a different browser such as firefox...
15:52<erikh>silverblade: i've seen something like that actually.
15:52<HoopyCat>they make that
15:52<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Don't forget being locked in a small, unvenitlated room with mikegrb immediately after an hour at an all-you-can-eat taco bar.
15:52<erikh>trying to remember WHERE though.
15:52-!-dajhorn [~dajhorn@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:52<phennessy>they make all-you-can-eat taco bars?!?
15:53<HoopyCat>Yaakov: the heinz field elevator broke while you guys were there, huh?
15:53<erikh>sign me up
15:54-!-ericindc [] has joined #linode
15:54<HoopyCat>PROTIP: When "Real World Perl: One-Liners to Replace Complex Embedded Controllers" is on the conference schedule, take the stairs
15:55<Yaakov>All the avionics on the need 797 supersonic megajumbo jet are in Perl6.
15:56<randallman>hahah erikh
15:56<randallman>Forward all e-mail to gmail
15:56<randallman>the 2nd biggest douchebag maneuver
15:56<randallman>I did a report on our postfix logs and found like 15 users who were sending ALL of thier e-mail to gmail
15:56<randallman>meanwhile, the legal department is all freaking out about e-discovery :)
15:56<HoopyCat>i'm moderately sure i've seen an all-you-can-eat taco special at my favorite bar in des moines once or twice
15:57<randallman>Yaakov, heh!
15:57<rainman`>randallman, i actually have it specifically in my contract
15:57-!-silverblade [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:57<randallman>if(exists($FLIGHTSTATUS{crashing}->{why})) {
15:57-!-silverblade [] has joined #linode
15:57<HoopyCat>i don't see it on their menu, so i might just be dreaming
15:57<randallman>rainman, what?
15:57<jfrankov>is anyone having problems ssh-ing into their linodes?
15:57<HoopyCat>Yaakov: airbus uses python. much safer and easier to understand.
15:58<HoopyCat>Yaakov: try: flying
15:58<SelfishMan>silverblade: I think I have that on
15:58<Yaakov>catch: plane as it falls
15:58<HoopyCat>Yaakov: except: sys.exit(1)
15:59<HoopyCat>jfrankov: mine look fine (just checked)
15:59-!-silverblade [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:59<rainman`>randallman, that i can't forward my business e-mail address to elsewhere
15:59<Pryon>I shoulda known better than to fool with a whiskey'n mama.....
15:59-!-silverblade [] has joined #linode
15:59<randallman>Rainman` it's a good thing....
15:59*SelfishMan makes another mental note to pay attention to the "--more--" tag in the bottom right of irssi
15:59<rainman`>randallman, indeed
15:59<randallman>Seriously - we had a christmas day DoS because of some contractors that did that bullshit
16:00<randallman>forwarded thier e-mail to a provider where they had a quota.... And the quota was generating a bounce.... BACK TO THE SOURCE... Which then sent another email back to the contractor
16:00<silverblade>SelfishMan: ?
16:00<randallman>Freegin negative feedback loop
16:00<SelfishMan>silverblade: The IE notification bar thing
16:00<Solver>randallman: ouch
16:00<randallman>Solver, yeah - Merry Christmas - ho ho ho - have some fscking spam
16:00<rainman`>youtube will drop ie6 support right?
16:00<Solver>hahah :)
16:01*rainman` is actually noticing only slight pains with supporting ie7
16:01<SelfishMan>randallman: back in 2000 I had a call when I was out of the country to fix a client's maxed out T1. Turns out, someone had sent a 20MB attachment to an invalid account elsewhere and they were replying with the whole damn attachment
16:01<randallman>I hate e-mail
16:02<JshWright>I just with IE8 supported more CSS3
16:02<Nivex>randallman: hear hear
16:02<HoopyCat>one of my friends did something fairly trivial and clever with the "Read more..." link on his blog (he's probably going to flip out and ditch blogspot soon, but i digress). tests out fine in every browser except IE6/IE7, where it... doesn't
16:02<SelfishMan>To make matters worse, the bounce message they sent was failing on our end
16:02<Pryon>let's go shopping
16:02<Nivex>(or is that here here)
16:02<HoopyCat>works fine in IE8 at least
16:02<randallman>Nivex, truth is - I don't hate MY e-mail.... I hate my stupid fscking user's e-mail
16:02<randallman>I'm not to proud to click DELETE
16:02<randallman>instead of bitchin about spam
16:03<Nivex>oh I just hate email as a concept, at least how it's implemented today
16:03-!-sc0field [] has joined #linode
16:03<rainman`>randallman, delete your users' e-mail for them
16:03<Nivex>I like the XMPP model of requiring bidirectional auth before you can send messages
16:03<rainman`>Nivex, still, it'll never go away
16:04<rainman`>(not before ipv4, that is ;)
16:04<Nivex>it will never go away. it will never change. people hate change.
16:04<Yaakov>I am ready for pull email.
16:04-!-smw006007 [] has quit [Quit: smw006007]
16:04*Solver suggests a gradual change over time. the only way to get stuff done in today's Internet
16:05<Yaakov>The idea that anyone, anywhere can send me email, or try to send me email, is stupid.
16:05<Nivex>Solver: but then you have to support two systems
16:05<HoopyCat>ditch this SMTP stuff and just batch it up and do nightly exchanges
16:05<rainman`>HoopyCat, doesn't work, too slow
16:05<Solver>Nivex: might be little alternative. smtp causes a lot of issues
16:05<Nivex>and without a hard cutoff date... well you get IPv6
16:05<HoopyCat>shut down all the POP3/IMAP servers for an hour and exchange mail... we'll call it... uhh... mail net hour?
16:05<Nivex>HoopyCat: you mean UUCP?
16:05<Solver>the question is will be still be using smtp or 50 or 100 years?
16:05<rainman`>Solver, statistically unlikely
16:05<Solver>s/smtp or/smtp in/
16:06<rainman`>or, wrong word
16:06<Solver>so it follows at some point that change will occur
16:06<rainman`>in history, we've never used a protocol for more than 50 years
16:06<Solver>rainman`: I understand what you mean
16:06<rainman`>however, protocols have never been so integrated
16:06<Solver>of course networking hasn't been around terribly long
16:06<rainman`>the more systems integrate protocols, the harder it will be to change
16:07<TheJoe>Still havn't found the problem with my mailserver
16:07<Solver>otoh we've seen systems have extremely high adoption rates
16:07-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:07-!-azaghal [~azaghal@] has joined #linode
16:07<rainman`>i guess the switch to ipv4 was a lot easier than adoption of ipv6 now :)
16:07<Solver>I expect smtp will evolve into something else over a series of steps
16:08-!-dax [~dax@] has quit [Quit: dax]
16:08<Solver>new features added which become universal, old ones are dropped. eventually the smtp of 2009 doesn't work
16:08<rainman`>some protocols allow that concept very well
16:08<Solver>indeed the RFCs for SMTP have changed several times
16:08<rainman`>BGP for example, allows me to introduce a completely new attribute on routes
16:09<rainman`>which noone in between me and the other router that understands it needs to have heard of
16:09<Solver>yes good point
16:09<randallman>we still use the wheel... 4000 years later... And look how bad that thing sucks! :p
16:09<Solver>some protocols do handle it better
16:09<rainman`>it's just like "oh, there's this blob that i should transfer on, so let's do it"
16:09<Solver>hey the wheel works very well :)
16:09<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Let's use twitter to whitelist email per message.
16:09<randallman>Solver, kidding of course :)
16:09<Solver>I can make one with a hand tool ;)
16:09<rainman`>i have thought of implementing pong over BGP before
16:09<randallman>rainman`, you'd be flap dampened rather quickly :0
16:09<HoopyCat>i'm seeing more TLS'd SMTP traffic "in the wild"
16:09<rainman`>randallman, i doubt there's still that much dampening around
16:10<Solver>XMPP as an alternative is interesting
16:10<randallman>Rainman, we do IP Anycast for DNS
16:10<randallman>and we still get dampened
16:10<HoopyCat>not a lot, but i figure eventually a web-of-trust sort of thing might be attached to that
16:10<rainman`>you're the first person i've heard of having that problem in years
16:10*HoopyCat waits for Yaakov to start screaming
16:10<randallman>Hoopy, that's just because of more mailers supporting TLS out of the box.
16:10<randallman>It's not like more peolpe are going to the effort.... It's just magic :)
16:11<Yaakov>HoopyCat: aaa.
16:11<Solver>randallman: that's the key :)
16:11<HoopyCat>randallman: i don't know where my ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem came from, but it's there! :-)
16:11<randallman>Hoopy, it's like saying 'More people run linux now...' and implying that this means that the overall clue of the average user has increased :) It hasnt :)
16:11<Solver>it needs to be easy or humans won't bother
16:11<rainman`>vista does ipv6 built-in as well eh
16:11<rainman`>even if not supported by ISP
16:11<Nivex>with teredo yes
16:11<randallman>What was it about vista v6 support... something whack
16:11<Nivex>teredo and 6to4 are the main migration strategies
16:11<randallman>like 4 in 6 addressing is done via a microsoft DNS server?
16:12<rainman`>randallman, it might be that the connectivity you get is just really sucky
16:12<Nivex>you can install "miredo" on linux and use it
16:12<randallman>Rainman, verizon/alternet? :P
16:12<erikh>HoopyCat: FidoNet!
16:12<rainman`>randallman, whatever is locally available
16:12<erikh>we should all revert to fidonet.
16:12<rainman`>but, that is part of the reasons why google does not add AAAA to
16:12<Yaakov>randallman: XP SP2 and Vista Teredo work perfetly but nothing uses them.
16:12<HoopyCat>randallman: oh, i don't care about the overall clue of the average mail admin. i'm thinking that, eventually, we may well get to a point where we can do some nifty web-of-trust stuff with signing of mail server certificates
16:12<rainman`>unless you have a whitelisted resolver
16:12<randallman>Rainman, we colo these boxes with verizon and savvis
16:12*erikh has his Frontdoor ready to GO!
16:12<erikh>fidonet fidonet fidonet
16:13<rainman`>randallman, er, i'm missing context
16:13<randallman>Hoopy, you know how many times per week I have to deal with idiots sending EHLO companyname.lan ?
16:13<randallman>and getting dropped? :P
16:13<Yaakov>randallman: The security model means that the applications have to ask to use it, and they don't. No browser uses it, for example.
16:13<randallman>Yaakov, which what? I have too many conversations ongoing :)
16:13<Yaakov>randallman: XP SP2 and Vista Teredo work perfetly but nothing uses them.
16:14<rainman`>Yaakov, they do if there's AAAA for a website
16:14<Yaakov>rainman`: No, they don't.
16:14<randallman>You mean ipv6?
16:14<rainman`>Yaakov, IE doesn't query AAAA by default?
16:14<HoopyCat>for what it's worth, my folks bought a new computer while they were in town. i set it up here, and bam, IPv6. got the boobies on first try, no config required
16:14<Yaakov>rainman`: Corret.
16:14<Yaakov>rainman`: Unless there has been a change in 8, but I doubt it since I get no IPV6 IE traffic at all.
16:15<HoopyCat>and the swimming turtle on, so it was picking IPv6 over IPv4
16:15*TheJoe stabs postfix
16:15*Solver hugs postfix
16:15*TheJoe stabs Solver
16:15<randallman>Yaakov, wasnt there something microsoft had to stand up DNS for? To make ipv6 work in Microsoft products?
16:15*Solver gives it first aid
16:15*fred hugs sendmail
16:15*Solver gives himself first aid
16:15<Nivex>randallman: the teredo server
16:15<randallman>so microsoft is hosting a whole zone specificly for soemthing related to ipv6?
16:15<Yaakov>randallman: Yes, Teredo IPV6 tunneling is on by default in XP SP2 and Vista. They get addresses, and don't use them.
16:15<TheJoe>mememememeemememeh Relay Access denied
16:16<rainman`>well, it's just a matter of time before isps do native ipv6
16:16<HoopyCat>Yaakov: is it possible they rank native IPv6 > IPv4 > teredo?
16:16<Solver>rainman`: yep. most of them are having kittens over it right now
16:16<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Who?
16:16<randallman>I was dealing with a customer with netscalars
16:16<randallman>and when asked AAAA, they would respond with NXDOMAIN
16:16<HoopyCat>Yaakov: vista/MSIE/whatever
16:16<randallman>instead of SERVFAIL
16:16<rainman`>randallman, lol
16:16<randallman>and therefore we'd never ask for the A
16:16<randallman>Totally busted shit
16:16<randallman>and it was intermittent
16:16*rainman` often sees people fail on adding a CNAME on their domain
16:17<Yaakov>HoopyCat: No, it uses IPV4 unless the application requests IPV6 services.
16:17<randallman>and they refused to acknowledge the issue
16:17<randallman>and I sent the PCAPs
16:17<randallman>and they engaged citrix
16:17<randallman>and and and and
16:17*randallman shoots self
16:17-!-SHINSAKU [] has joined #linode
16:17<HoopyCat>Yaakov: IE8 on Vista picks radvd'd IPv6 over IPv4, at least
16:17<Nivex>many many many devices that assume IPv4
16:17<randallman>IE8 doesnt even workwith OWA.
16:17<randallman>Isnt that something? :p
16:17<Yaakov>HoopyCat: If it has native IPV6 transport.
16:18<Yaakov>But the Teredo transport is simply not used.
16:18<HoopyCat>Yaakov: not even if the site returns only AAAA? (i did not test this, for i was mostly interested in seeing how awesome gymkhana 2 in HD looked)
16:19<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Not in my testing.
16:19<randallman> REJECT Access denied
16:19<HoopyCat>Yaakov: ok, i think our observations are no longer in conflict. :-)
16:19<TheJoe>What's meant to go in relayhost in /etc/postfix/
16:19<straterra>Straterra's used electronics store is now open
16:19<TheJoe>And/or mydestination
16:19<straterra>For sale today..a barely used DSi with flashcart and tons of games..
16:20<TheJoe>Tempting, if only my money wasn't being blown on a Linode
16:20<Yaakov>HoopyCat: There are a couple of how-tos on jiggering the configuration so that everything uses the Teredo connection.
16:21-!-Ace [] has joined #linode
16:21<HoopyCat>Yaakov: triply useless for me, alas, but i will keep that in mind
16:22<Ace>can someone answer a quick question?
16:22<Ace>I'm not a linode customer
16:22<Yaakov>BEAT YOU PRYON
16:22<Ace>currently using slicehost
16:22<HoopyCat>TheJoe: man 5 postconf
16:22<Ace>considering moving
16:22<Pryon>Not according to my output, yakketysax
16:22<SHINSAKU>its possible to set reverse DNS in linode vps?
16:22<HoopyCat>TheJoe: don't read that while driving
16:22<Bohemian>hm, would people be put off visiting a website with .net in it if it's an informational website which has ads?
16:22<Yaakov>Ace: Yes, that's the answer.
16:22-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@] has joined #linode
16:22<Ace>the question: am i able to use openvz under my linode?
16:22<HoopyCat>SHINSAKU: yup; on the network tab in the dashboard
16:22<Kerem>SHINSAKU yep
16:23<SHINSAKU>ok thx
16:23<Ace>either openvz or lxc (containers)
16:23<Ace>i want to be able to partition environments
16:23<HoopyCat>Ace: i don't believe so, but i haven't personally tried it. you'd probably have to compile a custom kernel to make it happen
16:23<Yaakov>Ace: I am not sure I understand why you would want to do that?
16:23<Solver>openvz requires a custom kernel yes
16:24<Solver>you'd probably want decent capacity on the linode too
16:24<Ace>say, for example, having different environments
16:24<Solver>running simultaneously
16:24<HoopyCat>Solver: somewhere, there might exist a pre-fabricated kernel with pvops and openvz support :-)
16:24<Yaakov>Ace: How big would you make these?
16:24*Solver uses openvz at work and home
16:24<Solver>HoopyCat: :)
16:25<Yaakov>Ace: Because a small linode wouldn't give you much room and an larger one is just multiples of the small, effectively.
16:25<Solver>of course openvz might not work under xen in practice
16:25<Solver>it depends how good the abstraction is
16:25<Ace>thats why I'm asking :-)
16:25<randallman>openvz? I guess that's like solaris zones?
16:25<Yaakov>Ace: And the charges are all pro rata, so you can stand up and tear down 'nodes at will and pay only for what you use.
16:26-!-syntaxman [~wade@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:26<Ace>i dont need more nodes
16:26-!-mkemp [] has joined #linode
16:26<Ace>i just need a way to separate environments
16:26-!-mattikus [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:26<Pryon>when you say "environments", what do you mean, exactly?
16:26<HoopyCat>Ace: might get you somewhere (skip the dom0 stuff, obviously)
16:27<Ace>for example have a container with one version of apache dependent on version X of libc (and others)
16:27<Ace>an another container with another version of apache, dependent on different versions of libs
16:28<Yaakov>Well, I am not very sympathetic. I have never had a practical application for such a thing.
16:28<bd_>sounds like chroot would be enough?
16:28<bd_>fwiw libc is backwards compatible
16:28<bd_>as are many other libraries (though not all :/)
16:28<TheJoe>Whee fixed it
16:29<TheJoe>Problem was mynetworks. Ideally I need to bypass that completely...
16:29-!-LinodeJavaUser [] has joined #linode
16:29-!-LinodeJavaUser is now known as linoob
16:29<Pryon>Is there a real need to run these different environments in production? If not, surely a local VM should suffice for testing.
16:29<HoopyCat>Ace: it's going to be a very custom (and, alas, probably kludgy and somewhat unstable) thing, so you might not want to rely on it for production even if it does work. might be good for development/testing though...
16:29<Ace>yes a chroot jail would be sufficient
16:30<bd_>HoopyCat: it could be stable, if done right
16:30<Ace>as long as i didnt have to copy the whole filsystem into the chroot path
16:30<Yaakov>bd_: Yes, it seems that chroot could do it. In the case of VMs, the overhead would seem to overwhelm any value.
16:30<bd_>running multiple instances of apache's going to be expensive though
16:30<TheJoe>Doh it's sending mail but the recipient isn't receiving...
16:30<bd_>Ace: cp -l ?
16:30<bd_>Ace: LD_LIBRARY_PATH probably best though if only libraries are a concern
16:30<Pryon>not much of a recipient, then.
16:30<Ace>yeah , do cp -l 3 or 4x and there goes disk space :)
16:30<bd_>Ace: what libraries other than libc are we talking about btw?
16:30<HoopyCat>man, now i want to try openvz :-)
16:30<bd_>Ace: cp -l is hardlinked
16:31<bd_>ie, only the directories themselves get copied. :)
16:31<bd_>well you'd want cp -lR I guess
16:31<bd_>you could also apply unionfs patches
16:31<Ace>but then each chroot enviroment would be able to write over any file and impact other chroot containers
16:32<Ace>the solution would be to use one of the Union filesystems (union, fuse-union, aufs)
16:32<bronson>I'm using openvz on linode and, up until the boot problems this morning, love it.
16:32<bd_>Ace: I thought this was just libraries, not security?
16:33<Ace>that would make my question be: anyone running a union fs on a linode?
16:33<bd_>anyway, drop root. no matter what
16:33<bd_>and don't give it anything suid
16:33<bd_>if it manages to get root, that's a kernel bug and you're doomed anyway
16:33<Ace>not a matter of security
16:33<HoopyCat>bronson: excellent. you've saved me hours of futile effort :-)
16:33<bd_>Ace: and finnix uses unionfs
16:33<Ace>its a matter of containment of environments
16:34-!-Turl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:34<Solver>bronson: interesting
16:34<Solver>bronson: and you live with 2 IPs per linode?
16:35<bronson>Solver, yep. I have nginx proxying virtual hosts to VMs running on internal IPs.
16:35<Solver>ah cool :)
16:36<Ace>@bronson thanks for the input
16:36<Solver>similar to approaches i've used in the past but I'm an apache reverce proxy man :)
16:36-!-hercynium [~hercynium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:37<Ace>i'm also using nginx to proxy to virual hosts (at slicehost) but they're running on UML VMs
16:37<Solver>hmm nginx does pop/imap proxying
16:38<Ace>ok guys, thanks for your help
16:38<Smark>whats the difference between mod_deflate and mod_gzip?
16:39<Ace>guess i'll put up a li/node up and try it out then
16:39<fred>deflate is zip, gzip is gzip
16:39<laser`>The algorithms
16:39<fred>well, zip's compression
16:39<fred>(as in pkzip/winzip)
16:39<bd_>I thought those were zlib as well?
16:39-!-Ace [] has left #linode []
16:40<Smark>which is generally better for compression?
16:40<fred>zlib supports both deflate and gzip.
16:40<HoopyCat>mod_deflate comes with apache 2.0, mod_gzip does not? :-)
16:41<HoopyCat>(which immediately suggests mod_gzip might be functionally better, although more of a PITA)
16:41<Smark>ok, and deflate is in mods-enabled, how do i determine if its working? Do i need to add something to my <VirtualHost> Directives?
16:42<HoopyCat>ngrep port 80... if you can read it, it's not being compressed
16:43*Yaakov deflates HoopyCat with big polyester bell bottoms and Peter Maxx graphics.
16:44<Smark>ngrep is installed, but im on familiar with it
16:45-!-Bohemian [~Bohemian@] has quit [Quit: Bohemian]
16:46-!-arooni-mobile [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:47<HoopyCat>Smark: ngrep displays traffic matching particular patterns
16:47<HoopyCat>good for human readable stuff, like uncompressed web traffic :-)
16:48*HoopyCat is reminded to enable compression for ye olde php blag
16:48-!-Ampedal [] has joined #linode
16:48<Smark>looks like im off to go install mod_gzip!
16:48<Ampedal>anyone have experience installing ISPconfig with ubuntu?
16:48-!-azeem [~azeem@] has joined #linode
16:49<azeem>anyone know if is having special offers or coupons?
16:49<Pryon>Pay for a year and get a discount
16:49<linoob>15% I think
16:49<azeem>that'd be great, except i want to test linode first before i commit for a year
16:50-!-LordMetroid [] has joined #linode
16:50<HoopyCat>Created commit 329f251: enabling zlib compression on php to perhaps trade some CPU for bandwidth 1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
16:50<Pryon>You can play with it for a week and get your money back
16:50<linoob>or pay for a month at the normal rate and switch to a different billing period later?
16:50<azeem>fair point
16:50<HoopyCat>azeem: you can switch to annual prepay later on and still get the promo
16:50-!-bnry [~abnry@] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by peer]
16:50<Smark> <-- aparently is already compressing pages with gzip
16:51<azeem>sounds good. thanks.
16:51<SHINSAKU>which of Linode Data Centers are best for Europens?
16:51<Pryon>I'm guessing newark
16:51<HoopyCat>SHINSAKU: usually newark, but try 'em all
16:51<SHINSAKU>ok thx
16:52<HoopyCat>Smark: it's php-generated, so php may well be set to compress things
16:52<Smark>ok, i'll go find a static page
16:53<HoopyCat>ooh, my blog went from 42k down to 10k. i like it
16:53<linoob>is scp faster than sftp in practice?
16:53<Smark>aparently I've had it enabled... I rememeber installed it at some point
16:53<Solver>they use the same backend
16:54<Solver>so should be the same although i've never done a specific comparison
16:54<Smark>also, my page has the following: "Apache/2.2.11 (Ubuntu) DAV/2 SVN/1.5.4 PHP/5.2.6-3ubuntu4.1 with Suhosin-Patch" I'm assuming its automatically generated, how can I remove the DAV/SVN stuff, I'd rather not have people knowing I run a repo
16:56<Smark>I mean preferably: Apache/2.2.11 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.6-3ubuntu4.1 with Suhosin-Patch
16:58<HoopyCat>Smark: i think there's an apache config option for that
16:58<Smark>all i've found is mod_headers
16:58<HoopyCat>Smark: ServerTokens is the option i think
17:00<Smark>does disabling the server header effect browser compatibility at all?
17:00<Ampedal>i'm looking for a way to manage e-mail through a GUI. anyone have any reccomendations?
17:00<HoopyCat>Smark: i can't think of any reason why it should
17:01<Smark>unless you're looking for a web-based solution, then Squirrelmail
17:01<linoob>smark: I think he means on his server...
17:01<Ampedal>I built a website for a client on a linode slice. they are used to cpanel, she wants some way to manage the e-mail accounts graphically
17:01<HoopyCat>i used to use thunderbird, but now use evolution for reasons i haven't quite figured out
17:01<HoopyCat>oh! that end of it. nevermind
17:01<erikh>Ampedal: consider zimbra
17:01<Ampedal>and I can't afford to load cpanel (both monetary and system resources)
17:02<Ampedal>any others?
17:02<Solver>does webmin still get used?
17:02*Solver is a cli guy
17:02-!-dzjepp [] has quit []
17:02<erikh>it brings a gmail-alike interface (which is nice for the noobs) and calendaring and so on
17:02<Smark>Solver, i used it a lot when i first started using linux, now i do 90% of stuff via CLI
17:02<Solver>Smark: I wonder if it is still around for Ampedal's use
17:03<HoopyCat>Ampedal: postfix will speak to a database backend, and i'd be surprised if dovecot or another imap server didn't too... shouldn't be too tough to code up a front end to add/remove virtual users/aliases/domains
17:03<Solver>I saw it in debian the other day but I wonder how actively it is supported
17:03<Solver>yes dovecot can talk to mysql
17:03<erikh>HoopyCat: I did it, but with phpldapadmin
17:03<Karrde>Solver: what, webmin?
17:03<erikh>as my "frontend"
17:03-!-Bohemian [] has joined #linode
17:03<Solver>Karrde: yeah I wonder if it is still actively maintained
17:03<Solver>it has been around for a long time :)
17:03<Karrde>How did you manage to find it in Debian?
17:04<Karrde>It's not in Etch or Lenny
17:04<Karrde>it's not actively maintained, has holes, etc, so was explicitly removed from Debian a while ago
17:04<Ampedal>what about ispconfig?
17:04<Solver>hmm I stand corrected. I'm sure I saw it
17:04<Solver>but you are right, it isn't there :)
17:04<Solver>not in ubuntu either
17:05<Solver>I wonder where I saw it :)
17:05-!-Redgore [] has quit [Quit: Peace and Protection 4.22.2]
17:05<Solver>cpanel is awful btw
17:06<Solver>I put that in at the request of a client once and it replace apache 2.0 with 1.3
17:06<Solver>and did other unspeakable things
17:06<Smark>Apache Server at Port 80 :)
17:06<Smark>Solver, yes Webmin is still activ
17:06<Smark>you know, that word
17:06<HoopyCat>dammit, watching ngrep is bad
17:06<erikh>you'd be surprised how many big shops still run 1.3
17:07<Solver>yeah I know
17:07<HoopyCat>my favicon.ico just barely eeks into a second packet
17:07*Solver hasn't used it in years
17:07<Smark>HoopyCat, what command are you using to look at your http traffic?
17:07<HoopyCat>Smark: ngrep
17:08<Smark>i meant the full command
17:08<HoopyCat>Smark: ngrep port 80
17:08<erikh>HoopyCat: I assume ngrep is pcap-based?
17:09<HoopyCat>erikh: apparently
17:10<Smark>its wierd watching this
17:11<Smark>noop? isnt that a network keep alive?
17:11<HoopyCat>-rw-r--r-- 1 rtucker rtucker 1406 2009-07-23 17:08 /tmp/favicon-picardfacepalm.ico
17:11<HoopyCat>-rw-r--r-- 1 rtucker rtucker 198 2009-07-23 17:10 /tmp/favicon-picardfacepalm-new.ico
17:11<HoopyCat>i knew there were way too many nulls in that file
17:13<Smark>Server: MochiWeb/1.0 (I'm not even supposed to be here today.)
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17:15<linoob>spacehobo! NOOOO
17:15<linoob>he's lost to the void ;_;
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17:17<TheJoe>I can send mail now
17:18-!-vint [] has quit []
17:18<TheJoe>Got no idea how to bypass mynetworks though
17:18<randallman> check_recipient_access static:DISCARD,
17:19<randallman>discard_everything = check_recipient_access static:DISCARD, reject
17:19<randallman>smtpd_restriction_classes = discard_testing, discard_everything
17:19<randallman>There you go :)
17:33<JoeK>can somebody txplain to me how multiple hard-drives in debian work?
17:33<randallman>eh rather?
17:33<SelfishMan>JoeK: Same as on any other distro
17:33<HoopyCat>how would you like them to work?
17:34<JoeK>how would i access it?
17:34<JoeK>i only ever used debian/windows
17:34<randallman>questions which lead to questions
17:34<SelfishMan>They store data. Bigger drives store more data (usually)
17:34<randallman>What kinda disk? What system?
17:34<JoeK>well if i know how to access it, then i got it
17:34<randallman>scsi? sata? ata? raid controller?
17:34<HoopyCat>JoeK: are you looking to just get at files on it, or are you looking to use it as a full-time part of your system?
17:34<randallman>Then it's probably just /dev/sdb
17:34<HoopyCat>JoeK: in short, "mount"
17:34<randallman>if it's the 2nd disk in the system
17:34<JoeK>its a permanent disk
17:34<randallman>is it formatted with some type of filesystem?
17:34<JoeK>so i want to utilize it as much as possible
17:35<randallman>Me, I'd use meta devices....
17:35<randallman>raid 1
17:35<JoeK>its a dedi, so im not exactly sure the setup
17:36<randallman>Im confused :)
17:36<Pryon>JoeK: do you care about the data currently on the drive?
17:36<HoopyCat>JoeK: you can mirror your existing drive onto it for improved read performance and redundancy, or you can move a tree /home or /var/porn to it
17:36<JoeK>i dont have it imaged yet
17:36<Pryon>Is this for your linode?
17:36<Pryon>never mind
17:36<SelfishMan>mv /home/urmom/porn/furry
17:37<JoeK>before i actually purchase it
17:37<JoeK>i would like to know how i would access the second drive
17:37<JoeK>for webhosting accts
17:37<Pryon>SelfishMan: that's why we can't have nice things
17:37<SelfishMan>JoeK: Short answer is that you need to create a filesystem on it then mount it somewhere
17:37-!-jfrankov [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:38<JoeK>ill find it out eventually
17:38<JoeK>expect me to be back :P
17:38<HoopyCat>JoeK: if you're providing web hosting, i'd highly recommend using it in a mirroring configuration to protect data from single hard drive failure
17:38<JoeK>automatic backup service
17:38<HoopyCat>JoeK: raid is not a backup, and backups are not a high-availability plan :-)
17:39<SelfishMan>!urmom backup
17:39<randallman>raid is a backup if the only problem you had was that your harddrive failed :)
17:39<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's so old, Debian added her to the stable repository! (732:6/0) [murmo]
17:39<JoeK>may i mention this isnt a linode D:
17:39<randallman>JoeK, really? :P
17:39<JoeK>yahrly :P
17:39<randallman>wow, that changes everything (KIDDING)
17:39<JoeK>I KNOW !
17:39<JoeK>if any hard-drive goes bad, t hey replace it, and with backups
17:39<JoeK>its a matter of putting it back
17:39<JoeK>and reconfiguring everything and so and so
17:40<randallman>drwxr-xr-x 12 root daemon 4096 Jul 21 10:35 /usr/openv
17:40*HoopyCat starts running calculations of hard drive costs vs. labor costs
17:41<HoopyCat>JoeK: anyway, how big are the two drives in question?
17:41<JoeK>its said they give free drive failure replacement
17:42<HoopyCat>JoeK: you could probably have, say, /home1 and /home2, and balance customer home directories between them...
17:44-!-dax [~dax@] has joined #linode
17:49<Toba_>raid5 mofos
17:50<HoopyCat>buy a third disk! :-)
17:52<Bohemian>i'm trying to start marketing a site i've worked on (informational site offering just information, no products. trying to make money via ads). the subject is people on disabilities. can anybody offer advice for marketing?
17:54<HoopyCat>Bohemian: hmm... i'd probably check with local disabilities services organizations or doctors that might be interested in referring folks there
17:55<Bohemian>yeah, i have. but i meant just for helping search engines/getting people there via the web
17:58<HoopyCat>Bohemian: google (and probably other search engines) seem to monitor twitter obsessively; if you have a blog-like feature on there, having it twitter when you update it will attract a plethora of robots (and provide one more way to make your visitors sticky)
17:58<Bohemian>really? i never heard that!
17:58<Bohemian>how does that work? just update twitter with a URL to the new blog post?
18:01<HoopyCat>Bohemian: at about 09:27:27, i hit the post button and was sent... at 09:29:19, googlebot found the page
18:02<Bohemian>HoopyCat: just use a url randomizer each time?
18:02-!-dax [~dax@] has quit [Quit: dax]
18:03<HoopyCat>Bohemian: the url? that's to shrink it down from to something that won't take up most of the 140-character limit
18:03<Bohemian>oh, okay
18:03<Bohemian>any other suggestions like htat?
18:04<Bohemian>how do you know googlebot found it ?
18:04<HoopyCat>Bohemian: i dunno, but i'm still #4 for "boston july 24 weekend" on google due to my "hey, anyone wanna go get drunk this weekend?" post, so i'm probably doing SOMETHING right. (by not doing any specific search engine optimization beyond common sense, at least :-)
18:05<HoopyCat>Bohemian: web server access log :-)
18:05<Alucard>possibly dumb grep question: I want to match lines that end in: greater than, space, period. Shouldn't this work: grep '> .$' foo.txt
18:05<HoopyCat>::ffff: - [23/Jul/2009:09:29:19 -0400] "GET /index.php/2009/07/23/some-very-cool-photos-from-stpr-2009 HTTP/1.1" 200 21180 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +"
18:05<Alucard>double quotes don't work, nor does escaping the $
18:05<HoopyCat>Alucard: escape the . ?
18:06<Alucard>ah, I did
18:06<Alucard>but that didn't make it to irc :)
18:06<Alucard>this is in cygwin.. about to try a Real Linux
18:07<Bohemian>HoopyCat: weird. how could i use twitter for an informational site though. act like i'm a user and just start tweeting about pages?
18:07<HoopyCat>Alucard: '\> \.$' should do it all... also consider the -E option, 'tho i forget at which point you need to call that in
18:08<HoopyCat>Bohemian: a web site that never changes is silly. as you find new information or revamp things, blog about it. if there's interesting news for your visitors, blog about it. new laws? new technologies? write it up and post it
18:08<Alucard>I thought so, but that works in vi but not in grep
18:09<Alucard>nothing with grep -E or even -P
18:09<HoopyCat>Alucard: you might have some ^M crap at the end of the lines if it's a dos file...
18:09-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:09<Alucard>thank you.
18:10<Alucard>you may collect your payment at the local flat forehead dispensery
18:11<linbot> ...
18:11-!-egor31 [] has joined #linode
18:11<Alucard>I did say it might be a dumb question ;_;
18:11<Pryon>no way that's a dumb question
18:12-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:12<Pryon>One of these days you will compulsively check all text files of unknown provenance with od -c
18:12-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #linode
18:13-!-egor31 [] has quit []
18:13<HoopyCat>Alucard: props on mentioning cygwin :-) 'tis weird the important details sometimes
18:13<HoopyCat>speaking of which, off to fix some dinner. bbl
18:14-!-Shinaku [~shinaku@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Shinaku]
18:20<Pryon>Alucard: you wouldn't do something like this, would you?
18:20<linoob>best. comic. ever.
18:24<Turl>any tool like top but intended to be parsed?
18:24<Turl>I want to get the 5 most cpu-intensive php processes, get the UID that's running them, and do sth with it
18:25<Turl>any ideas? thougt about using top | more or sth like that but it seems it just lists some processes
18:25<Yaakov>top -b
18:26<Turl>thanks Yaakov :D that + -n1 did the trick
18:27-!-arooni-mobile [] has joined #linode
18:27<Alucard>og course not
18:29<Pryon>Busted. You're so busy chewing on somebody you can't even talk
18:32-!-Avizor [] has joined #linode
18:33<Avizor>i have a problem
18:33<Avizor>i get this message error : *** glibc detected *** sudo: double free or corruption (out): 0x08059218 ***
18:34<Avizor>when I use sudo command to make any changes on my systemfiles
18:35<Huitzilopochtli>raid failure
18:35-!-HalJordan [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:35<Avizor>any idea?
18:36<Avizor>any idea?
18:36<Avizor>how to solve it?
18:36<laser`>Sounds like something's broken
18:37<laser`>like, in quite a bad way
18:37<Pryon>Avizor: can you give an example of a command you're using that results in that error?
18:37<Avizor>i changed my hostname file and reboot the server
18:37<Avizor>sudo nano /etc/hostname
18:38-!-mkemp [] has quit [Quit: mkemp]
18:41<Avizor>any idea?
18:42<Pryon>export MALLOC_CHECK_=0 might make the message go away. However, I can't tell you why you're getting the message (beyond what the message already says)
18:45<bd_> it still might crash
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19:00<silverblade>hmm, im guessing its not a good thing that my ups sounds like a mosquito
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19:14<Bohemian>can someone help me? one of my domains isn't loading even though all my other domains are
19:15<Bohemian>the domain name is
19:15<Bohemian>i asked for the A records to be changed and it looks fine on linode's DNS manager
19:15<Smark>what was the command to count lines of a file?
19:15<laser`>Smark: wc
19:15<laser`>Well, wc -l
19:15<laser`>Bohemian: When did you do it?
19:16<laser`>Takes 15 minutes to update
19:16<Bohemian>days ago
19:16<HoopyCat>Bohemian: the nameservers for that domain are ns1/
19:16<HoopyCat>Bohemian: so changes made on the linode dns manager won't be visible, alas
19:18<Bohemian>HoopyCat: zone file says
19:18<Smark>grep -v string removes lines with "string" in them right?
19:18<Bohemian>@ NS @ NS @ NS @ NS
19:19<laser`>Bohemian: The zone file doesn't define what the name servers are :)
19:19<Yaakov>Bohemian: The zone file can say that all it wants.
19:19<laser`>You have to change them at your registrar
19:19<Bohemian>okay, well, i removed the zonefile from mediatemple
19:19<Bohemian>laser`: i did that too
19:19<Yaakov>Bohemian: Registrar.
19:19<Bohemian>with all my other requests (they own 6 of my domains)
19:19<laser`>In which case your registrar haven't updated them
19:19-!-paul_ [] has joined #linode
19:19-!-Guest296 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:21<linbot>Yaakov: [dig] status: SERVFAIL | ;; ANSWER SECTION: | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION
19:21<Bohemian>i didn't update the ns at the previous host (not mt)
19:22<Bohemian>i have 6 at this host, must have overlooked
19:22<Bohemian>thank you HoopyCat , Yaakov , laser` et al
19:22<HoopyCat>that'd do it :-)
19:22<Bohemian>TTL is 15'?
19:22<Yaakov>HoopyCat: I am inclined to write !whois
19:23<Bohemian>what's the ns for linode? ?
19:23<Smark>grep is like the best command ever made
19:23<HoopyCat>Bohemian: ns1, ns2, ns3, and
19:23<Bohemian>Smark: yes. i need to learn how to use it htough
19:24<HoopyCat>use all four, or winged monkeys will emit forth and torment thee in the night
19:24<HoopyCat>Yaakov: to return what? the info is rather verbose.
19:24<Bohemian>any recommendations for how to make the best domain name? i did about 20 which were available, but trying to decide between 5 i like. not sure what will be best to get people coming back and there
19:24-!-kenichi [~kenichi@] has quit [Quit: kenichi]
19:25<Smark>Bohemian, easy to remember
19:25<Smark>the shorter the better
19:25<Smark>but shorter is not better if its harder to remember than a longer domain
19:25-!-Avizor [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.6 (2005/02/09)]
19:25<Yaakov>I guess I insulted him.
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19:27<Bohemian>do you think is overdone. E.g. iMac, iTunes, etc?
19:29<Bohemian>even an 8 letter domain? everything else i have is at least 10
19:30<Smark>also, domains are not case sesitive, so it'll look like
19:30<Smark>anyone have a preference for a PHP cache?
19:31<Guest224>ok, so it wasn't IO after all. is anyone else seeing packet loss or other network oddities at TP?
19:31-!-Guest224 is now known as brtb
19:32<Yaakov>Smark: My preference is none. And no php. But... that's just me.
19:32<linbot>HoopyCat: [mtr] 10 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 39.9ms
19:33<linbot>HoopyCat: [mtr] 10 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 40.4ms
19:33<HoopyCat>brtb: looks ok between newark and dallas
19:35<brtb>hmm... it looks like it might be tp's connection to gblx. trying to get some mtr output to pastebin, pings up to 700ms so far on that link and intermittent packet drops
19:37<brtb>check this out -
19:38<linbot>brtb: timed out
19:40<HoopyCat>brtb: that looks clean to me...
19:40<brtb>1100ms on the tp->gblx link is clean?
19:40<HoopyCat>brtb: 0.0% 173 41.1 43.8 40.4 64.9 3.3
19:41<HoopyCat>brtb: you care about packets to the end point and back, not packets to the CPU on intermediate routers
19:41<brtb>getting this now
19:41<brtb>14. 1.9% 797 45.7 43.6 40.2 64.9 3.1
19:42<HoopyCat>brtb: are there any hops before that with similar packet loss?
19:42<brtb>it's intermittent... just odd
19:43-!-EAS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:46<HoopyCat>brtb: i suspect it might be closer to your home than your linode, looking at mtrs from here
19:48*DephNet[Paul] sighs
19:48-!-azaghal [~azaghal@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:51<HoopyCat>huh, wow, our coffee grinder has a lifetime warranty
19:53<phennessy>put some rocks in it and test that theory
19:53<linbot>New news from forums: Postfix/Dovecot: Can't send mail via Thunderbird in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
19:53<HoopyCat>that would be "neglect"
19:54<HoopyCat>and it's also a mission-critical component... a coffee grinder outage would result in a substantial disruption to essential life services
19:55-!-mdcollins [] has joined #linode
19:56<Bohemian>goddamn, godaddy sucks
19:56<Bohemian>so fucking slow
19:56<mdcollins>i knew that a long tima go..
19:56<mdcollins>time aho*
19:56<mdcollins>time ago*
19:57<Bohemian>7 bucks for a domain ain't bad though
19:58<mdcollins>eh, id rather pay a little more and not be hasseled by their crap web interface and general annoyance
19:58<HoopyCat>it's like driving 30 miles to save $0.02/gal
19:58-!-SHINSAKU [] has quit []
19:59<Bohemian>the alternatives didn't look much better
19:59<Alucard>I switched to namecheap this year, wasn't too bad
19:59<mdcollins>more like driving to the good side of town to not get mugged at the gas station
20:01-!-Twayne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:02<Bohemian>how do i make another vhost for apache in debian? i forgot where i had to go to do that. then i know i have to do a2ensite...
20:04-!-tilthouse [] has quit [Quit: tilthouse]
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20:07<Bohemian>is it mkdir /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/$ && a2ensite && /etc/init.d/apache2 reload ?
20:08<Smark>are you making it for users or just for yourself?
20:09<Bohemian>does it matter?
20:09<Smark>i usually just put a VirtualHost file in sites-enabled, and put the directory elsewhere since /etc/ isnt where you want to store web content
20:10<laser`>Not mkdir
20:10<snitko>what could it be when any browser simply does not send a param that's in a submit button, for example <input type="submit" name="text" value="hello">. I checked it with a GET method and the param does not appear in the address line.
20:10<laser`>You put a file in /etc/apache2/sites-available/
20:10<laser`>And the contains the the VirtualHost definition
20:10<Bohemian>right... then you do a2ensite ?
20:11<Bohemian>i just did that and entered the site to enable it and it says it doesn't exist? i need to create the dir in /var/www ?
20:11<Smark>i dont know what a2ensite does, but its not needed AFAIK... I dont use it and i've got 12 vhosts
20:12<Bohemian>so then create the dir in /var/www and you're ready to go?
20:12<Smark>creates the appropriate dirs yes... htdocs, logs... maybe cgi-bin
20:12<Bohemian>hm, never created a log dir, just told vhosts to go to the main apache log. is that a problem?
20:14<Smark>if you specify a different log file in your <VirtualHost> directive then it goes there
20:15<Bohemian>okay, good
20:15<Bohemian>thanks for the link mdcollins
20:16<mdcollins>welcome, thats the one i found on google, seemed relevant
20:16<Smark>I've never used many CGI-scripts... do I have to install anything special to use them other than just making the directory and specifying it as a script directory in your vhost config?
20:16<mdcollins>whatever program they use
20:16<mdcollins>or rather intrepter
20:17<Smark>ok, so if its a perl script, then perl, etc?
20:17<mdcollins>and you may have to edit the script to the right directory
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20:18<Smark>Small visual bug in the LPM
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20:34<hawk>Hmm, the Linode DNS servers, are those DNSSec enabled? I'm considering using them for slaves...
20:36-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #linode
20:39<jtsage>ugh. as much as i already hate moving, turning on the home network always seems to be so much harder than setting it up in the first place was...
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20:53<Bohemian>i just cancelled my hosting plan with mediatemple. i was paying 20/month and they have a 30 day money back guarantee. so, i cancelled. i also registered a domain name for 5$. they cancelled my service, changed the registration fee to 15 and will refund me 6
20:53<Bohemian>i don't think that's legal
20:54<linbot>SelfishMan: excess surge protectionfloating point processor overflowdivide-by-zero errorPOSIX compliance problem (2:0/0) [eexucss]
20:55<SelfishMan>Bohemian: It's in their tos
20:55-!-kelvinq [] has joined #linode
20:55<Bohemian>it sounds bait and switch
20:55-!-hpj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:55<SelfishMan>Read the fine print
20:55<SelfishMan>The registation is only $5 with a hosting package
20:56<SelfishMan>besides, they aren't the one's that switched things around, you are
20:56<Bohemian>and at the time i purchase, i had a hosting package. when i decided they weren't for me, i cancelled
20:56<Bohemian>due to service they couldn't provide
20:56<SelfishMan>I generally recommend against registering where you host or hosting where you register
20:56<Bohemian>whatever, amex will not pay them if i complain
20:56<Bohemian>oh i agree now
20:56<Bohemian>it just makes things easier
20:56<SelfishMan>if they don't get paid then you will lose the domain
20:57<Bohemian>good point
20:57<Bohemian>but i haven't used it yet
20:58<Bohemian>i guess it's a question of how much trouble is it worth
20:59<HoopyCat>$10 doesn't pay for that much trouble
20:59<Bohemian>it's not the money HoopyCat
20:59<Bohemian>it's the principle for me :/
21:00<Bohemian>if they can show me it in the TOS faster than they take to resolve a tech issue, then fine
21:00<Bohemian>so they have 5 days
21:01<HoopyCat>Bohemian: you (electronically) signed the agreement; if you switch to month-to-month with linode after 6 months on an annual plan, you're not going to keep the 10% discount for the rest of the year :-)
21:01<Bohemian>HoopyCat: i don't know their TOS for a fact
21:01<Bohemian>so i asked for them to show me where in the agreement it stipulates that
21:01-!-yogi2 [~yogi@] has joined #linode
21:02<laser`>Does MT do normal hosting?
21:02<Bohemian>i just want to see it, laser`
21:02<laser`>by hosting, I mean domain registering
21:02<Bohemian>i guess
21:02<laser`>If so, and the normal fee for that is $15, then they're probably in their rights
21:02<Bohemian>they offered when i signed up for 5 bucks
21:02<Bohemian>otherwise, i don't see where it says anything
21:03<yogi2>is it possible to revive a closed linode account with all of its files? We closed our account yesterday but forgot to download important files
21:03<laser`>I used to work at a shop
21:03<laser`>If something was 50% off when bought with something else
21:04<laser`>And the first thing was brought back for a refund, then also had to pay the 50% difference for the other thing
21:04-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:04<laser`>It's kind of implicit
21:04<Bohemian>how do i view users inside the table "virtual_users" in mysql?
21:04<laser`>Bohemian: I use phpMyAdmin
21:04<Bohemian>laser`: sure, but show me in the agreement
21:04<Bohemian>laser`: i'm using CLI
21:04<yogi2>thanks HoopyCat
21:04<Bohemian>don't want phpmyadmin
21:05<Bohemian>g'luck yogi2
21:05<laser`>So right an SQL statement that shows you :)
21:05<Bohemian>i don't know what it would be :/
21:05<Bohemian>DESCRIBE ?
21:05<laser`>SELECT * FROM virtual_users
21:05<laser`>If you don't know simple SELECT and want to use a CLI over PMA
21:05<Bohemian>thank you
21:06<laser`>Good luck, sounds like you're a masochist :P
21:06<laser`>Anyway, in the UK it's implicit, it wouldn't need to be in an agreement
21:06<Bohemian>laser`: i'm reading oreilly's sql book now
21:06<Bohemian>trying to learn
21:06<Bohemian>laser`: says what?
21:06<Bohemian>says a law
21:06<laser`>But that's only if they sell domain registration separately
21:06<Bohemian>which is on paper
21:06<Bohemian>so show me that
21:06<Bohemian>that's all i'm saying
21:06<laser`>Sale and Supply of Goods Act
21:06<laser`>It's common sense...
21:06<Bohemian>i asked for them to show me where in the agreement that is implied
21:07<Bohemian>common sense ain't law laser`
21:07<laser`>If I went to a shop, and bought something where it was buy one get one free
21:07<laser`>And took one of them back for a refund
21:07<laser`>I'd have to take the other one back too
21:07<Bohemian>that sounds like breaking the law
21:07<HoopyCat>and this is why there's so much fine print that noone ever reads...
21:07<laser`>In this case it's common sense, and also law :)
21:07<laser`>ianal btw
21:08<laser`>But I am reasonably familiar with UK retail law
21:08<laser`>Probably more familiar than a lot of people who worked on the refund desk
21:08<yogi2>thanks for the help guys, much appreciated
21:08<laser`>anyway, nn :)
21:08<SelfishMan>Bohemian: "New customers may receive a discounted rate for their first domain registration when activating new hosting service. If hosting service is cancelled and customer wishes to retain domain registration service only, customer is required to pay full recurring price for individual domain registration service. "
21:08<SelfishMan>(12 seconds of clicking to find that)
21:08-!-laser` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:09<Bohemian>neural:/var/www/$ INSERT INTO virtual_users (domain_id, user, password) VALUES (9, 'webmaster', MD5('$PASS'); -bash: syntax error near unexpected token `('
21:09<Bohemian>not sure what's wrong there?
21:09<HoopyCat>as it turns out, the table of free food the bar puts out during football games is really frickin' salty and tastes approx. 500% better when drunk anyway
21:09<Bohemian>SelfishMan: does it state the fee?
21:09<Bohemian>yeah. because i didn't see it
21:09<hawk>Bohemian: Read the **-note at the bottom
21:09<SelfishMan>Under "Domain Registration"
21:09<Bohemian>right, so it's at their discretion to make the fee
21:09<Bohemian>that's my point
21:10<linbot>Yaakov: bit rot (1:0/0) [sesexuc]
21:10<SelfishMan>No, the normal fee is $15
21:10<jtsage>Bohemian- besides the fact that your running that command in a shell rather than in the mysql client?
21:10<Bohemian>thank you jtsage
21:10<Bohemian>it's usually something stupid with me
21:11<mdcollins>sometimes it takes an outside perspective to notice things like that
21:11<Bohemian>that same command: ERROR 1452 (23000): Cannot add or update a child row: a foreign key constraint fails (`mailserver/virtual_users`, CONSTRAINT `virtual_users_ibfk_1` FOREIGN KEY (`domain_id`) REFERENCES `virtual_domains` (`id`) ON DELETE CASCADE)
21:12<Bohemian>HoopyCat: thanks
21:12-!-yogi2 [~yogi@] has quit [Quit: yogi2]
21:12<SelfishMan>Bohemian: It took all of us seconds to find that in the user agreements. Next time you might want to actually try justifying yourself before bitching and complaining.
21:12<Bohemian>mdcollins: sarcasm?
21:12<mdcollins>no, ive done stupid things like that
21:12<hawk>Yeah, and their page on the money back guarantee explictly says that if you use the MBG, you will be charged the full price of any domain names you got a discount on...
21:12<mdcollins>so either another set of eyeballs or just a break
21:13<SelfishMan>It's the same loss leader concept used by many companies. Cell providers are a perfect example.
21:14<mdcollins>yeah they are
21:20<linbot>SelfishMan: That person left the company to persue personal interests (31:0/0) [ucessxe]
21:20<linbot>HoopyCat: The packets arrived out of sequence. (21:0/0) [cssexeu]
21:20<linbot>SelfishMan: CPU fragmentation (29:0/0) [xceuses]
21:20<HoopyCat>how can a CPU be fragmented... eh, nevermind
21:21<SelfishMan>!excuse yo momma
21:21<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma so f--- oh wait wrong trigger (35:0/0) [xessuec]
21:22-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:25-!-Turl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:26<HoopyCat>it's a real tough town / packing heat and boat shoes / my crib's in a rough spot / right next to the whole foods
21:26<Yaakov>!excuse bits
21:26<linbot>Yaakov: Trying to stuff ten pounds of bits into a five pound bucket. (39:0/0) [sexeucs]
21:27<amitz>hmm I should quiz any new customer TOS to check their understanding... theoretically, good idea.
21:27<amitz>but quizzing people orally is a pain..
21:27<HoopyCat>i quizzed urmom orally
21:28<amitz>HoopyCat: I was counting in my head, 3, 2, 1, :-)
21:28<HoopyCat>i counted urmom in my head last night
21:29<amitz>HoopyCat: and "it's a real tough town / packing heat and boat shoes / my crib's in a rough spot / right next to the whole foods" <-- what are you doing?!
21:29<HoopyCat>amitz: singing, of course
21:29<amitz>damn, didn't see that one coming :-)
21:29<amitz>the counting my mom.
21:29<linbot>HoopyCat: HoopyCat ate it (43:0/0) [essexcu]
21:29<SelfishMan>oh, yes!
21:30<Alucard>halon system went off and killed the operators.
21:30-!-daMaestro [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:30-!-Turl [] has joined #linode
21:30<HoopyCat>amitz: a little song about arlington, virginia:
21:31<UberBoogerBot>^ == Arlington: The Rap uploaded by GoRemy. [Duration: 3:59] [Views: 714,146] [Rating: 5.0]
21:31<HoopyCat>would i ever lie about something like that? :-P
21:32<SelfishMan>!seen path-
21:32<linbot>SelfishMan: path- was last seen in #linode 29 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <path-> that's playing dead
21:32<amitz>my connection isn't that fast. Is that the one that goes "to the place I belong, bla bla bla, virginia, mountain mama, to the place I belong."?
21:32<HoopyCat>amitz: i... don't believe so
21:33<HoopyCat>!seen izheetmdruruz
21:33<linbot>HoopyCat: I have not seen izheetmdruruz.
21:33<amitz>give or take some words. My english wasn't exactly good when I heard that song.
21:33<SelfishMan>!seen SelfishMan
21:33<linbot>SelfishMan: SelfishMan was last seen in #linode 1 minute and 5 seconds ago: <SelfishMan> !seen path-
21:33<amitz>HoopyCat: oh..
21:33-!-litwol|mac [~litwol|] has joined #linode
21:36<amitz>ah, it was "Country roads, take me hoe, to the place, I belong, west virginia, blah bla blah"
21:36-!-fuxr [~fuxr@] has joined #linode
21:38<HoopyCat>well, there's two types of virginia... west virginia, and virginia
21:38-!-mdcollins [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:38<HoopyCat>one of them is further east than the other, the other has a relatively small set of unique genes
21:39-!-MJCS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:40<Solver>HoopyCat: ;)
21:41<amitz>Is that an euphimism for uh, brotherly-sistery love? Can't resist to ask :-p
21:41-!-MJCS [] has joined #linode
21:41<Solver>'kissing cousins' can be used for any relationship like that
21:41<Solver>even when they are not cousins
21:41<HoopyCat>and even when they're doing a lot more than kissing
21:42<HoopyCat>(e.g. each other)
21:42<amitz>woah, lots of google hits on that.
21:42<amitz>Solver: google hits on "virginia incest" you silly :-p
21:43<Solver>oh ;)
21:54-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has joined #linode
22:08<checkers>google hits on all the girls
22:10<HoopyCat>cuil, on the other hand... ::ffff: - [23/Jul/2009:22:08:46 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 301 0 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Twiceler-0.9"
22:13<litwol|mac>holly shit mate, do you ever sleep HoopyCat?
22:13<HoopyCat>litwol|mac: in about 30 seconds i'm heading that way, once my wife is done polishing her fangs
22:14<litwol|mac>have phun ;)
22:14<litwol|mac>rawr rawr ;)
22:14-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:15<HoopyCat>well, i have to brush my teeth too, you know, and by that point she'll be asleep
22:15-!-Viking [] has joined #linode
22:16<linbot>HoopyCat: Yo momma so f--- oh wait wrong trigger (35:0/0) [sxesceu]
22:16<HoopyCat>mumble, mumble
22:16<linbot>HoopyCat: Infinite loop (36:0/0) [xseescu]
22:21-!-LordMetroid [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:29<checkers>how is that [] string generated?
22:29<checkers>just random permutation?
22:29-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has joined #linode
22:34-!-ustream [] has joined #linode
22:36<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's so fat, she must have been compiled with --fatroll-loops! (746:2/0) [rmuom]
22:36-!-ustream [] has quit []
22:36<SelfishMan>!urmom vote up 746
22:36<linbot>SelfishMan: Voted 746 up [mmuro]
22:36-!-SHINSAKU [] has joined #linode
22:36-!-JoeK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37<Bohemian>can someone help me with this mysql statement. i keep getting this error:
22:37-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37<Bohemian>domain_id 9 is available
22:37<Bohemian>stops at 8
22:38<SelfishMan>it pretty clearly tells you the error
22:38<Bohemian>i didn't take a long enough break
22:38<SelfishMan>You can't create something with domain id 9 if there is no domain with id 9
22:39<Bohemian>at least these are stupid questions and i'm actually starting to understand
22:41-!-Shinaku [~shinaku@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #linode
22:41-!-Shinaku [~shinaku@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
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22:42-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has joined #linode
22:42<Eman>has there been any recent breakage of the dashboard?
22:42<Eman>i cant seem to login and i know the details are correct
22:43-!-greenscreen [] has joined #linode
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22:44<npmr>Eman, it's working for me
22:44<npmr>sorry i can't be more helpful, but it doesn't appear to be a general failure
22:45<Eman>now this is weird
22:45<Eman>i can get on lish
22:48-!-SHINSAKU [] has joined #linode
22:49<SHINSAKU>Can I somehow change Data Center of my VPS?
22:49<Alucard>yes. submit a ticket.
22:49<Smark>submit a ticket requesting migration to a specific datacenter
22:49<linbot>Linodes can be migrated between datacenters by simply opening a ticket. Your disk images will be copied intact, but you will be issued a new IP address. Once a migration is configured, it makes a button on the dashboard available for you to start the migration yourself. Migration typically takes about 1-3 minutes per GB.
22:50<Eman>hrm, last time i had issues it was because my username was too long
22:50<Eman>i wonder what it is now
22:51<SHINSAKU>I got it, but in "Linode Manager" I see that I can remove my VPS, so could I just remove one and add new VPS with different Data Center?
22:51<linbot>Linodes can be migrated between datacenters by simply opening a ticket. Your disk images will be copied intact, but you will be issued a new IP address. Once a migration is configured, it makes a button on the dashboard available for you to start the migration yourself. Migration typically takes about 1-3 minutes per GB.
22:52-!-chip [] has joined #linode
22:52<SHINSAKU>im asking not about migration
22:52<SHINSAKU>i want to remove my current vps
22:52<Smark>you dont want to move it?
22:53<SHINSAKU>i dont
22:53<SHINSAKU>i just started, playing around, nothing important yet on vps
22:53<Smark>do you want to cancel your subscription or just start from scratch
22:53<SHINSAKU>start from scratch on different DC
22:54<Smark>i suggesting opening a support ticket and saying just that
22:54<Smark>delete your current disk images though
22:59<Eman>i would file a ticket, except i cannot get to the dashboard :(
23:03-!-Harry_Mudd [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0-rc2]
23:03<bd_>Well, there are two options: put in a ticket to migrate, or delete your linode (not your account!) and create a new one in a different DC
23:03<bd_>the latter option might cost an extra day or two worth due to rounding, plus prepay for the next month.
23:03-!-Pyromancer [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:03<bd_>ticket->migrate is free
23:03<bd_>if you don't need the data on the linode, delete all disk images prior to migrating, to speed the process
23:04<Bohemian>anybody here set up virtual_alias_maps with postfix in mysql? i'm stuck with the INSERT INTO query. i am not sure how to write it so if someone mails it forwards to another address in that domain
23:04<SHINSAKU>ok bd_ :)
23:05<Bohemian>here's the query i'm looking at:
23:05-!-arooni-mobile [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06-!-Pyromancer [] has joined #linode
23:07<Smark>god damn Bohemian, STILL fucking with that
23:08<Bohemian>just the forwarding
23:08<Bohemian>then i'm 100% done
23:08<Smark>i've done virtual_aliases, but i dont know if thats the same as virtual_alias_maps
23:08-!-here4thegear [] has joined #linode
23:08<Smark>my virtual_aliases table fields are id, email, destination... brb in a while
23:08-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable]
23:11<here4thegear>Has anyone had any issues with this, sendmail (php mail()) goes directly to spam, even with proper header config. I'm thinking it has something to do with the fact that my domain uses gmail. Would this be an mx record issue that I need to fix?
23:11<decourl>here4thegear: do you have a valid PTR record?
23:11<Smark>here4thegear, are you using your server as outgoing, or gmail's?
23:11<here4thegear>Let me double check both questions
23:12-!-here4thegear [] has quit []
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23:13<decourl>MX records show which hosts a domain uses to receive mail. You're not necessarily expected to send mail using these same hosts, and these records are not generally examined in anti-spam checks.
23:13<here4thegear>ok, sorry, had to jump out for a second to separate my tabs..
23:13<SHINSAKU>Is that ture that 64bit OS is faster then 32bit?
23:14<decourl>SHINSAKU: I don't think so.
23:14<SHINSAKU>Is there any advantage of having 64bit OS?
23:14<reillyeon>SHINSAKU: depends on what you're using it for
23:14<SHINSAKU>over 32bit
23:14<SHINSAKU>manily http server
23:14<reillyeon>not with the amount of RAM Linodes have.
23:15<here4thegear>what's a PTR? I don't see that in my zone, I have SOA and Name Servers. I have MX records... an A record (just my ip addy) and 2 CNAMEs one CNAME is my domain the other is
23:15-!-chip [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:15<reillyeon>here4thegear: PTR records are managed by your ISP and resolve your IP address back to a domain name.
23:16-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has joined #linode
23:16<reillyeon>You can create a custom PTR record for your Linode in the manager.
23:16<decourl>Your system should HELO using the same hostname as in the PTR record.
23:16-!-Pyromancer [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:16<Bohemian>um. when i type in a site URL of one of my vhosts, it says "Index of /" and shows all sites in my /var/www folder. help?
23:16<decourl>And, whatever hostname your IP does reverse resolve to should also forward resolve back to that IP.
23:17<here4thegear>ok, well, my spam problem is more, when sending to users of my application, not my own mail.
23:17<reillyeon>here4thegear: You application sends mail through your server, so it matters.
23:17<Bohemian>and when i click a URL there it goes to
23:18<reillyeon>here4thegear: The receiving host checks things like PTR records of the server sending the message.
23:18<here4thegear>reillyeon so, I can add PTR to linode using DNS manager?
23:19<StevenK>here4thegear: No, that's seperate in the dashboard, but it can be set.
23:19<reillyeon>here4thegear: it's in the Network section of the manager for each Linode.
23:19<reillyeon>called "Reverse DNS"
23:19-!-pygmalion [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:19<decourl>The receiving host might also check a variety of DNSBLs. If you're having trouble getting your mail accepted, it makes sense to check that you're not on one of those.
23:20-!-Turl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:20<decourl>Usually folks using these services will reject your mail however, not discard it silently or place it in a spam folder.
23:21<decourl>You can potentially boost your email reputation by participating in DKIM or by publishing a strong SPF record.
23:21-!-Lawrence [~daisy@] has quit [Quit: Lawrence]
23:22-!-Pyromancer [] has joined #linode
23:22<decourl>You should ensure that in addition to sending from hosts wich are in DNS properly, you also use sender email addresses which are routeable (e.g. at resolvable hosts/domains).
23:22<decourl>Beyond that, it comes down to message content.
23:22<Bohemian>i just deleted the domain name folder in question in /var/www/$ - and did a mkdir /var/www/ again, and it's showing the index of / with all the websites i have in /var/www/ again. can someone help?
23:23<reillyeon>Bohemian: apache2 I assume?
23:23<Bohemian>yes reillyeon
23:23-!-chip [] has joined #linode
23:23<Bohemian>reillyeon: i put a vhost file in sites-available/ i'm on debian
23:23<chip>how much bandwidth does linode 360 offer?
23:23<here4thegear>ok, so what should I do for my reverse dns?
23:23<Bohemian>and did a2ensite
23:24-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:24<decourl>chip: 200 GB a month is standard.
23:24<decourl>But extra is available.
23:24<reillyeon>Bohemian: and restarted the server?
23:24-!-pygmalion [] has joined #linode
23:24<Bohemian>reillyeon: yes
23:25<chip>ok thanks
23:25<decourl>here4thegear: it should be whatever hostname you chose for your Linode.
23:25<Bohemian>reillyeon: should the vhost file be in BOTH sites-available/ and sites-enabled/?
23:25<SelfishMan>Bohemian: a2ensite is your friend
23:25<reillyeon>Bohemian: it needs to be in sites-enabled to work, apache ignored sites-available
23:25<here4thegear>so, you mean, my
23:25<chip>i'm running vbulletin with around 1,200 visitors a day. Do you think that plan can handle the traffic?
23:26<reillyeon>Bohemian: it's just there to store disabled (but maybe useful) configurations
23:26<Bohemian>SelfishMan: i used that...
23:26<here4thegear>ok, is there any way I can log into this irc with pidgin instead of this java aplet, it's buggin' me.. lol
23:26<reillyeon>Bohemian: a2ensite will manage creating symlinks from sites-enabled to sites-available
23:26<Bohemian>oh, right
23:27-!-simeon [~simeon@2001:4200:7000:3:213:72ff:fe9a:52ff] has joined #linode
23:27<Bohemian>so, what do i do about what's going on now? all my other sites are fine...
23:27<reillyeon>here4thegear: Pidgin supports IRC.
23:27<reillyeon>Bohemian: so, you have other vhosts that work?
23:27<Bohemian>what is "Suhosin-Patch Server"?
23:27<Bohemian>yes, all of them...
23:27<Bohemian>can i delete the vhost files and try again?
23:27<here4thegear>yeah, I know I use it on freenodes. but, I can't seem to get into this irc server with it.. eh.. let me try some more.
23:28<reillyeon>Then there's something different between this particular vhosts file and all the others?
23:29<Bohemian>i just redid the vhost && a2ensite && restart and still the same
23:30<reillyeon>Bohemian: can you pastebin the vhost file?
23:30<here4thegear>ok, I'll leave pidg alone for now.. getting my mail setup correctly is more important right now.
23:31<Bohemian>here4thegear: i can give you a great guide, but you need to be VERY careful!
23:31<reillyeon>Bohemian: it works for me
23:31<here4thegear>so, the reverse dns should be or
23:32<Bohemian>reillyeon: what do you mean it works for you?
23:32<reillyeon>Bohemian: as in, I get an empty directory listing (assuming /var/www/domain is empty) and a list of your vhosts when I just go to the IP.
23:32<reillyeon>So, the vhost is doing what it's supposed to
23:32<here4thegear>Bohemian I would appretiate that. I do prefer to understand totally rather than just be told what to do, with little understanding of why on my end.
23:33<Bohemian>reillyeon: i understand, but when i installed the drupal core, it then went to
23:33<Bohemian>which doesn't make sense
23:33<Bohemian>here4thegear: this teaches you what you're doing
23:33<here4thegear>plus, I'm always careful, I did a ton of research before I started the basic dns stuff
23:33<Bohemian>it took me 3 tries
23:33-!-kelvinq [] has quit [Quit: kelvinq]
23:33<Bohemian>but now it's working 99%, just need to do forwarding
23:33<reillyeon>you need to tell drupal what it's URL is
23:33<reillyeon>It tries to guess, but it's getting it wrong.
23:34<Bohemian>reillyeon: hm, how do i do that?
23:34<Bohemian>it's always guessed right
23:34<reillyeon>No idea, somewhere in the drupal settings, Wordpress has a similar option, that's all I'm familar with.
23:34<Bohemian>all the other drupal's on this server guessed right
23:34<Bohemian>okay, thanks. i'll try again!
23:34<Bohemian>but thanks for the help!
23:34<here4thegear>Bohemian by 'tries' did it require a re-image or anything on the messups?
23:35<Bohemian>wasn't worth doing a 3 line apt-get to remove everything affected
23:35<Bohemian>but you could
23:35<here4thegear>re-image of the node
23:35<chip>why does my site constantly keep going down?
23:35<here4thegear>eh, I'll just read through this thing.
23:36<here4thegear>chip, what do you mean by 'going down'?
23:36<chip>i only have 60 visitors at any given time
23:37<here4thegear>chip it's not number of visitors at a time, it's how heavy one visitor is on processes.. if you've got a heavy ajax program with lots of mysql going on, there's your answer. mysql == memory hog.
23:37-!-JoeK [] has joined #linode
23:37<chip>ya its the mysql
23:37<chip>how to fix that?
23:37<chip>my cpu usage is like 290
23:37<chip>on a linode 360
23:37<Bohemian>reillyeon: you here?
23:38<Bohemian>i just went to install it again, and it isn't finding the file even though it's clearly in /var/www/
23:38<Bohemian>reillyeon: oooh. what should i change the permissions of folder to?
23:39<reillyeon>Bohemian: the vhost is for, not
23:39<Bohemian>reillyeon: oooh. that matters?
23:39<reillyeon>Sorry, face-palm moment...
23:39<Bohemian>what cna i do so both and works?
23:39<reillyeon>Two vhost sections
23:40<here4thegear>chip probably need a memory increase, but, some rules of thumb... if the field goes in a where clause, or an order by, or a group by... index the field
23:40<Bohemian>reillyeon: like this?
23:40<reillyeon>You need to be the ServerName for one of them.
23:41<here4thegear>chip, you can also tinker with the query cache
23:41<Bohemian>reillyeon: this is fine?
23:41<Bohemian>that's all?
23:42<Bohemian>thank you so much! i had NO idea!
23:42<Bohemian>then run a2ensite for all my domains?
23:42<reillyeon>You don't have to if they're already enabled.
23:43<reillyeon>All it does is create symlinks, if they're already there, it does nothing.
23:43<Bohemian>so a symlink always updates?
23:44<reillyeon>A symlink just points to another file by name.
23:44<Bohemian>reillyeon: can you tell me how to empty an entire db?
23:44<reillyeon>DROP DATABASE <dbname>;
23:44<Bohemian>will that delete the db?
23:44<Bohemian>or just the contents?
23:44<reillyeon>the whole db
23:44<Bohemian>how can i delete just the contents?
23:44<reillyeon>not easily
23:45<reillyeon>you'd need to DROP FROM <table>; for all the tables.
23:45<Bohemian>ok :)
23:45<Bohemian>i'll just remake the db
23:45<here4thegear>um, truncate tablename; for each table;
23:46<Bohemian>thank you so much reillyeon
23:46<here4thegear>but, either way, Bohemain, you're going to have to do the same amount of work.
23:46<reillyeon>here4thegear: is there a difference?
23:47<here4thegear>reillyeon yes, drop table just removes the table, truncate just removes the data in the table, so the db structure is still there
23:48<reillyeon>here4thegear: oh, oops, I meant DELETE FROM <table>;
23:49<reillyeon>I don't do SQL enough.
23:49<here4thegear>reillyeon in that case, no, there isn't a real difference
23:50<here4thegear>I'm a sql nut.. it's pretty much all I do all day.. lol
23:53<here4thegear> everyone needs a bash script like this.
23:53<reillyeon>here4thegear: I know too many programming languages to keep the details straight anymore, that's what reference manuals are for.
23:54<here4thegear>so, let's say you have a mysql script you want to run, and you have that script as myscript... command line, easy myscript < file.sql
23:58<decourl>OK so my Linode now accepts print jobs via lpr.
23:58<reillyeon>Do I dare ask where it prints them?
23:58<decourl>Currently they queue only. Eventually they should print to .ps disk files.
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 24 00:00:47 2009