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#linode IRC Logs for 2009-09-16

---Logopened Wed Sep 16 00:00:00 2009
00:13-!-baddj [~3b659b05@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
00:13<Talman>HMm, does linode library have an openvpn walkthrough?
00:15<palintheus>I know it has a search box >_>
00:16<baddj>I am new to linux and i read a lot about the kernal here on linode using there own kernal i think like 2.6.18.8-linode19 what happens if there is a kernal update with in yum update?
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00:36<Pryon>baddj: unless you're rolling your own distro with pv_grub kernel updates will be ignored
00:36<Pryon>aaaaaaaand he's gon
00:36<Pryon>e
00:43-!-vashy [~vash@ool-ad021e5a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #linode
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01:06<Smark>what would be the proper to run "du -sk" on a grep output? something like: somecommand | grep somesearch | du -sk
01:10<Smark>xargs to the rescue
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01:34-!-BostonWealth [~421ec4c6@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
01:34<BostonWealth>Hi
01:37<Andrew>o hai
01:38<User23423>o hai
01:39-!-ph^ [~ph^@79.135.7.171] has joined #linode
01:41-!-nybble [~nybble@pytha.nodes.voxzu.ca] has joined #linode
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02:12<BostonWealth>quit/
02:13-!-baddj [~baddj@C-59-101-155-5.mel.connect.net.au] has joined #linode
02:14<baddj>Hello hows the linode kernal work? like if i do a yum update with in centos and it has a new kernal will it stop my vps from working or?
02:14<@jed>baddj: your kernels are ignored unless your'e using pv-grub
02:15<@jed>we manage the kernel in your configuration profile
02:17<baddj>Okay as i am a n00b at linux all i will be doing is install my webserver and svn and just using it ;) so i am not to sure what the pv-grub is. so i can still use yum update to keep me updated right?
02:17<@jed>your web server and SVN, yes
02:17<@jed>yum updates of your kernel will be ignored, as we manage the kernel in your linode's configuration profile
02:17<@jed>this is not harmful to you
02:18<baddj>Cool. also do you have some ip's of each datacenter i can ping to work out what one i want to use?
02:18<@jed>!download
02:18<linbot>http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2636
02:18*SelfishMan opens ticket #98916
02:19<baddj>Thank you ;)
02:20<baddj>also what xen versions do you run on your node's out of curiosity?
02:20<@jed>it varies
02:21*jed closes ticket #98916
02:21-!-Guest2682 is now known as dcraig
02:21<kansan>how do i get rubygems > 1.3.1 on ubuntu hardy? http://pastie.org/618463 is my attempt; failed :(
02:21*SelfishMan mumbles about slow ticket response times
02:21<SelfishMan>;-P
02:22-!-dcraig is now known as Guest2685
02:22<SelfishMan>jed: Can I request an IP that when converted to a long is a prime?
02:22<@jed>SelfishMan: hm
02:22<baddj>ok. i hope i am not buging you ;) but what plan would be better for me to run my website on as it will be a hevy used svn.
02:22<SelfishMan>jed: thank you sir
02:23<@jed>SelfishMan: you've intrigued me
02:23<@jed>I'm about to pass out, but now I have a mission
02:23*jed opens python and mysql query browser
02:23-!-Silence^_^ [~c8-J2zv6E@199.197.2.145] has joined #linode
02:23-!-Silence^_^ [~c8-J2zv6E@199.197.2.145] has left #linode [[10054] Á¬½ÓÓɶԵȻúÖØÖÃ......]
02:24<SelfishMan>ah crap
02:24<SelfishMan>I have to restart to make this new IP take effect
02:24<@jed>if you feel like sitting tight 15 minutes
02:24<@jed>your original request may be feasible, since I'mb ored
02:25<SelfishMan>Nah, I've already configured it all
02:26<SelfishMan>I think my next project might involve writing a DNS muxer
02:26-!-clanehin [~clanehin@cpe-069-134-154-178.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
02:27<baddj>what plan would be better for me to run my website on as it will have hevy-ish used svn?
02:28<Smark>ho would one use the command line to return "spectralcoding.com" out of the following: "/home/smark/spectralcoding.com/logs" note that smark and spectralcoding.com will change
02:28<@jed>baddj: that's an extremely hard question to answer as there are dozens of variables
02:28<Smark>so basically the value between the 3rd and 4th parenthese
02:28<Smark>bash have a tokenize function?
02:28<StevenK>Smark: cut -d/ -f3
02:29<StevenK>-f4 , sorry
02:29<@jed>cut++
02:29<baddj>would it be a good idea starting at the first plan and if i need more just upgrade?
02:29<@jed>baddj: yes.
02:29-!-Guest2685 [craig@dysphoros.org] has quit [Quit: leaving]
02:29<Smark>f3 returned the wrong one, but f4 worked
02:29<Smark>oh, i see
02:29<Smark>thanks like 500x StevenK, i keep forgetting about these commands such as cut
02:29<StevenK>Smark: Yes, which is why I corrected myself :-)
02:30<Smark>i know, i typed without reading it, sorry about that
02:30<baddj>Hows the billing work with upgrades say i upgrade half why though my billing cyical?
02:30<@jed>everything is prorated to the day
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02:31-!-SelfishMan [~SelfishMa@onefish.servers.tx.binarymonkey.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:31<baddj>okay cool
02:32-!-elhippo [~elhippo@cpe-70-112-188-172.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:32<baddj>I think i will be using linode as at the other host i was looking at slic***** there support does not seem as good plus theres a DC thats got good ping to australia.
02:33<@jed>you're allowed to say slicehost's name here :)
02:33-!-SelfishMan [SelfishMa@onefish.servers.tx.binarymonkey.com] has joined #linode
02:34<baddj>Oh okay. i read that post about the value of what you get with you guys and slicehost very good read i must say.
02:35<baddj>Oh one more thing ;) can we pay be using an australian master card debit card?
02:35<Smark>There needs to be a way to just disable the insert key all together... no one uses it anymore and it annoys me
02:36-!-moon_unit [~rob@75.101.57.162] has quit [Quit: moon_unit]
02:38<Andrew>@baddj.. I did ;)
02:39<Andrew>well.. Aussie Visa..
02:40<baddj>Okay so the mastercard debit cards should work i would think :|
02:41<Andrew>I guess
02:41<@jed>SelfishMan: target locked: 1208924623
02:41<@jed>that took about 85 tries
02:41<@jed>I hit one in my last query but forgot to specify which datacenter
02:42<@jed>since you're in dallas I don't think an atlanta IP would work
02:44<@jed>02:24:41 <@jed> if you feel like sitting tight 15 minutes
02:44<@jed>02:41:48 <@jed> that took about 85 tries
02:44<@jed>close estimate
02:45<Smark>SelfishMan, you're the local munin expert, got a minute to answer a question or two about setting up different graph types?
02:45<Smark>or jed, or anyone, if they're knowledgable
02:47<SelfishMan>me? munin expert? not a big fan of it anymore
02:48-!-baddj [~baddj@C-59-101-155-5.mel.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:54<supine>all the cool kids are using collectd these days
03:04-!-getsmart [~getsmart@88-149-241-21.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #linode
03:08<linbot>New news from forums: Is there a way to reduce the memory footprint of Ubuntu 9 in Performance and Tuning <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4608>
03:08-!-clanehin [~clanehin@cpe-069-134-154-178.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:09<Lucent>why would my neighbor have an alarm going off every hour
03:10-!-kelvinq [~kelvinq@bb220-255-27-181.singnet.com.sg] has joined #linode
03:14<Pryon>Lucent: persistent burglars and a short-term-memory problem?
03:14<linbot>New news from forums: My linode360 not responding and all websites down in General Discussion <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4630>
03:14-!-matiu [~matiu@CPE-60-231-18-94.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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03:44<aaronpk>is there a way to prevent wget from running in the background? i need to download a file and then process it, so i need to wait for wget to complete before continuing. i'm writing a simple bash script.
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03:48<amitz>I like to type and test the lag of my internet connect, and I like it :-D
03:49<amitz>or maybe my standars was already too low
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03:50<amitz>aaronpk: oh, I thought it's running on the background by default..
03:51<aaronpk>it seems to be running in the background. i need to prevent the script from continuing until wget is done
03:52<aaronpk>curl would work too, but it does the same thing
03:52<amitz>I mean, it's running on foreground by default.
03:52<amitz>anyway, I probably remember it wrong, nm.
04:06-!-jcr [~5a3a1cf4@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:06<linbot>New news from forums: Email/Hour Limit in Email/SMTP Related Forum <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4414>
04:10<rainman`>Linode.com has a zero tolerance policy on spam, Junk E-mail or UBE. Spam, Junk-mail and UBE are defined as: the sending of the same, or substantially similar, unsolicited electronic mail messages, whether commercial or not, to more than one recipient
04:10<rainman`>interesting
04:11<rainman`>so i can send spam, as long as i only send it to 1 person
04:14<leaf_>sending spam to one person would be useless
04:14<leaf_>:P
04:15-!-D[a]rkbeholder [~darkbehol@124-168-246-42.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:18<Smark>So as far as my "retired" linode goes, I can just shutdown and remove it from my account and I get prorated the remaining money back?
04:22-!-metaperl [HydraIRC@cpe-75-187-105-186.insight.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
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04:23<leaf_>Smark you are leaving linode? any reason?
04:24-!-dcraig is now known as Guest2690
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04:28<Smark>leaf_, no i'm not... I needed to do a server migration and bought a second linode, set it all up, now I need to retire my old one, since its not getting any use at all, and wont.
04:28<leaf_>ah ok
04:29<Smark>I've been very happy with Linode, the IRC help is great, performance is great, tormenting jed is great.
04:30-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@71.192.11.163] has joined #linode
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04:31<leaf_>hehe
04:31-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@124.82.177.106] has joined #linode
04:31<leaf_>i moved my blog/music site over to linode
04:31<leaf_>now all my visitors are gettting betters download speeds
04:31<leaf_>site is fast too
04:32-!-User23423 [~User82934@70.134.69.167] has quit [Quit: REBOOT]
04:32<Smark>download speeds are superb... I had to rdiff-backup my new linode today, downloaded all 8gb in about three hours, and im sure it was limited by my own connection
04:33<Smark>since rsyncing between linode I achieved 54M/s
04:33<leaf_>:D
04:33<leaf_>i rsynced from europe to newark at about 2mb/s
04:33<leaf_>1400 images and 40 mp3s
04:33<Smark>but that was prolly transfering the data a few feet, rather than ~500 miles
04:34<Smark>and it messed up my graphs for this month, oh wells
04:35<Smark>theres a 2hr average spiking at 3Mb/s
04:36<Smark>anyway, time for me to depart... g'night #linode
04:36-!-Smark is now known as Smark[Gone]
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06:20<amitz>I like typing to irssi with the new internet connection :-D. What's a suggested samba manager?
06:25<mig5>vim
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06:42<orschiro>hi guys, I have a question to the point "Turn ON AXFR for this domain" in the dns zone manager. what does that mean?
06:44<bliblok>If you don't know, you don't need it.
06:45<orschiro>well might be. *g* Does it mean that I allow the domain to be transfered to another nameserver?
06:52<bliblok>Yup
06:55<orschiro>thanks ;)
06:55-!-orschiro [~robert@f053211079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #linode []
06:56*amitz smacks mig5 with amitz's new internet connection.
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07:05-!-raistlinthewiz [~5569440f@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
07:06<raistlinthewiz>hi there
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07:06<raistlinthewiz>any admins avaible to help me with an issue?
07:07<raistlinthewiz>my linode on newark84 is not responding, even i'cant accesss ssh,lish or shutdown the machine using the webadmin
07:07-!-praetorian [praetorian@124-170-167-230.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #linode
07:09<raistlinthewiz>any1?
07:12-!-BostonWealth [~421ec4c6@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:15<raistlinthewiz>please can someone check the issue?
07:19<raistlinthewiz>:/ no-one around?
07:20<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community.
07:20<raistlinthewiz>i already filled
07:23-!-aaronyy_ [~aaronyy@pluto.iphash.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:23<raistlinthewiz>bahhh:/
07:24<raistlinthewiz>i pray for some admin to arrive work early then
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07:28<linbot>New news from forums: Will my mail distribution be considered as spam or not? in /dev/random <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4633> || Reboot: newark84 in System and Network Status <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4632>
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08:17<raistlinthewiz>hi there i think newark84 crashed once more again
08:17<mwalling>raistlinthewiz: i'm typing from there
08:17<mwalling>raistlinthewiz: load is a little high, but its trudging along for me
08:18<raistlinthewiz>hmm
08:19<mwalling>my load is back down to .2
08:19<mwalling>nagios was whining that it was > 6
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08:39<Keverw>Hey all
08:40<Keverw>Did you guys know the goverment just went in to the hosting bussiness?
08:41<ubuntuisloved>Keverw, which website?
08:41<Keverw>https://apps.gov/
08:41<Keverw>This kindy upsets me...
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08:50<Keverw>and what are .do sites?
08:50-!-mawolf [~mw@189.230.29.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:51-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@genkt-048-001.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #linode
08:54<@irgeek>Keverw: http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/
08:54<Keverw>o
08:55<Keverw>Not .do domains. Like index.do
08:55-!-Talman|Ghosting [~Talman|Aw@97-127-8-29.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #linode
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09:02<npmr>Keverw, java servlet
09:02<npmr>ok then
09:10-!-linville [~linville@sapphire.tuxdriver.com] has joined #linode
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09:24<amitzz>default openssh supports reverse ssh? that is the server is the one initiating the connection? since the server is behind nat.
09:25<amitzz>and i don't control the router.
09:25-!-pygmalion [~pygmalion@pyg8.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:28-!-Guest2706 is now known as dcraig
09:29<straterra>You can make an outgoing connection and tunnel a port over it or something to try to get around that o.O
09:29-!-dcraig is now known as Guest2714
09:32<orudie>adf
09:34<rainman`>maybe the server should be the client
09:35<amitzz>thanks, finally managed to google with this other shitty connection. there seems to be a well established way to do that, as you had suggested.
09:35<amitzz>yeah, with -r flag.
09:35-!-l0uis_ [~l0uis@madmax.fitnr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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09:36<amitzz>or -R. linux and it's case sensitivity, heh.
09:40<amitzz>i have this other choice. either a reliable 512kbps behind nat isp, or a 50 percent more expensive less reliable 1mbps static public ip. still mulling over this.
09:40<rainman`>wait
09:41<rainman`>there are ISPs there that don't give you any public IP?
09:41<rainman`>where is this?
09:41<straterra>Yes
09:41<straterra>I know of one in the UK
09:41<rainman`>i thought this was a post ipv4 exhaustion scenario :)
09:43<amitzz>rainman': IIRC, if all people are assigned 1 ip address, they won't be enough? should be trivial to calculate, 256x256x256x256 minus a bit.
09:43<amitzz>each.
09:44-!-Bass10 [~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #linode
09:44<@irgeek>I think "a bit" is more than you realize. :)
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09:45<Nivex>many of the ISPs in Russia are also all NAT
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09:45-!-amitzz [~MtvIRC_us@114.121.25.183] has joined #linode
09:46<amitzz>woah, i suppose mine crashed.
09:46-!-Turk [~458f1812@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:46<@irgeek>http://xkcd.com/195/ - The 16 /8s reserved for multicast for instance...
09:46<amitzz>above 4 billions.
09:48<rainman`>class D and E are "lost" indeed
09:48<@irgeek>Almost every device connected to the Internet is classless now.
09:49<rainman`>and then there's 127/8, 10/8, 0/8
09:49<JshWright>There is also a ton of wasted space
09:49-!-l0uis [~l0uis@madmax.fitnr.com] has joined #linode
09:51<rainman`>well, not much to do about it anymore
09:51<@irgeek>The current estimate for exhaustion is about two years. When the IANA gets down to having one /8 per RIR, they will automatically be assigned one each. After that, we're in trouble.
09:52<rainman`>that's why it's so wonderful that companies like linode are already embracing ipv6, gaining operational experience in time ;)
09:52<JshWright>Don't worry irgeek we'll all just switch over to IPv6 when that happens, right?
09:52<@irgeek>:p
09:53<JasonF>I'm a network engineer for a company with 2000 servers or so.
09:53<JasonF>The day I'm told to rollout IPv6 is the day I find a new job that's more linux-y and less network-y.
09:53<JasonF>haha
09:53<rainman`>ipv6 is not hard
09:53<rainman`>ipv6 is mandatory for anything i do
09:53<JasonF>on one system
09:53<JasonF>or two systems
09:53<rainman`>if somethings works on/for ipv4, it must work on/for ipv6
09:54<JasonF>when you have to backport it to legacy crap, and test a thousand applications, etc
09:54<JasonF>it *is* hard
09:54<rainman`>JasonF, that's why people should start now
09:54<JasonF>hell, the load balancing software I work with still has a crapton of IPv6 bugs.
09:54<rainman`>when we rolled out ipv6, we had ocassional router hangs
09:54<rainman`>it was unstable for quite a few months
09:54<JasonF>If a router hanged because I put ipv6 on it in addition to ipv4
09:54<rainman`>but all were reported to and fixed by vendor, and now our ipv6 is perfect, with time to spare
09:54<JasonF>I'd get in deep shit, and I'd deserve it.
09:55<rainman`>what about if you can't add a webserver anymore, because you've run out of IPs
09:55<@irgeek>Time to head to the office. That's less exciting now that I have an Internet connection at home.
09:55<rainman`>and need to do a project of a year first
09:55*amitzz probably shouldn't bother to learn about ipv4 anymore :-D
09:55<JshWright>amitzz: IPv4 is gonna be around for a long time
09:55<JasonF>JshWright is right.
09:56<rainman`>more ISPs will deploy NAT, because they didn't do ipv6 in time
09:56<JasonF>Also, where I work is a division of a company with probably a /9 or /10 of ARIN space allocated in total
09:56*irgeek doesn't think IPv4 is going to go away in his lifetime.
09:56<JasonF>So even if ARIN stops giving away space, we'll be able to get IPs internally for a while
09:56<rainman`>JasonF, that does not help once ipv6-only hosts start appearing
09:56<JasonF>I'm betting that it'll be 2015 or more before 1/2 of all the internets services are available on ipv6
09:57<amitzz>jshwright: damn :-)
09:57<rainman`>google is selectively available over ipv6, what more do you need
09:57<rainman`>wikipedia is busy working on it
09:58<JasonF>Good for them.
09:58<JasonF>I'm about to roll a new datacenter, and it's not even going to have basic ip6 support.
09:58<JasonF>I'll start THINKING about ip6 when I can get it natively and don't have to tunnel it in.
09:58<rainman`>well, we'll see the panic once ipv6-only hosts start appearing
09:58<rainman`>and find they can not go to vendor X's website
09:59<JasonF>That, quite bluntly, won't happen.
09:59<JasonF>ISPs will provide 6to4 tunnels for damn near forever
09:59<JasonF>and even so, ip6 isn't even CLOSE to the tipping point
09:59-!-cmantito [~56067092@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
10:00<JasonF>they'll end up taking more reserved space and making it allocatable in ip6
10:00<cmantito>hey folks, any staff around?
10:00<JshWright>cmantito: look for those with the "@'
10:00<JasonF>like 1/8, 0/8 (excepting 0.0/16)
10:00<Dianoga>!ops
10:00<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community.
10:00<JasonF>Ask your question, cmantito, we'll heckle you gently toward a solution.
10:01<orudie>is anyone here looking for a linux admin job in NJ ?
10:01<JasonF>I don't believe in new jersey
10:01<orudie>i just got a call from a recruiter
10:01<JshWright>orudie: that would require living in New Jersey
10:02<JshWright>I've already filled my "time spent in New Jersey" quota for the rest of my life
10:02<cmantito>I have a ticket logged already, I just have a question about it
10:02<orudie>whats wrong witn NJ ?
10:02<JshWright>orudie: you ever lived there?
10:03<cmantito>depends, north or south new jersey? ;)
10:03<orudie>no my sister lives there
10:03<cmantito>the south is better.
10:03<JasonF>cmantito++
10:03<JshWright>South jersey isn't too bad
10:03*JasonF is in VA
10:03<cmantito>pfft, why is my 'node dead >.>
10:04<JshWright>I spent 6 years in north Jersey (a few miles away from Linode's NJ datacenter, actually)
10:04<JshWright>cmantito: define dead
10:04<JasonF>cmantito: can you get to it via Lish?
10:04<orudie>linode is south jersey
10:04<orudie>oh wait the office is south jersey
10:04<cmantito>Lish tells me I have a dead screen, LPM says it's off and that it can't boot cause it's already running
10:04-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@118.100.137.182] has joined #linode
10:04<JshWright>orudie: right, office and datacenter are not in the same location
10:04<orudie>nand the datacenter is in Newark so yeah its north
10:04<cmantito>I'm waiting for the ticket to be looked at, but I'd like to know what caused it
10:04-!-ph^ [~ph^@79.135.7.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:05<orudie>JshWright-> thats why you didnt like it , its too industrial in that area
10:05<mwalling>JshWright: they're on opposite ends of the state :P
10:05<JshWright>the datacenter is technically in Cedar Knolls, a few miles north west of newark
10:05<cmantito>the datacentre is fucking dead sexy
10:05<cmantito>I used to have equipment in there
10:05<cmantito>:)
10:07-!-Oli`` [~oli@78.149.171.118] has joined #linode
10:07<Oli``>My Linode performance is arse today (it's a newark one)
10:07<Oli``>newark74
10:09<Oli``>Just installing updates and they're taking an age to install. 400megs of ram free, nothing above 2% cpu...
10:09<Oli``>smells like a disk IO issue but I could be wrong... I'll run bonnie++ for fun in a minute
10:10-!-jcn [~jcn@207-237-244-88.c3-0.nyw-ubr2.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?]
10:10<orudie>the recruiter sounded really hot on the phone
10:11<cmantito>>.> COME BACK UP 'NODE!
10:11<orudie>she said if i know someone who's interested
10:11<rainman`>pics or stfu
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10:16<megatron27>nah, don't be fooled by her voice
10:16<rainman`>it's probably speech synthesis
10:16<megatron27>they probably moonlight at some phone sex place
10:17<Nivex>My Dad shuddered when I mentioned NJ, but that's due to the fact that he was at Ford Dix when he was there.
10:18-!-TheJoe|ZzZz is now known as TheJoe
10:20<cmantito>dfinnerty: Thanks for solving my ticket [kleacock] - Just to clarify, was there nothing I could've done to prevent this.
10:21<cmantito>That was supposed to be a question :S
10:21<cmantito>but I can't type today.
10:29-!-Guest2714 is now known as dcraig
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10:33<litwol|mac>is it possible to define multiple variables in bash for loop ?
10:33<litwol|mac>something like
10:33<litwol|mac>for k=0, i in *.file; do ... ; done ?
10:34<litwol|mac>ll
10:35-!-cmantito [~56067092@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.6 (2005/02/09)]
10:35<linbot>New news from forums: Script issue in General Discussion <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4625>
10:36-!-mihaipotra [~5622e384@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
10:37<mihaipotra>hello everybody
10:37-!-PHPdiddy [~johns@comp.stedwards.edu] has joined #linode
10:38<mihaipotra>I was wondering if anyone can give a few tips/suggestions on what's best to do with adding domains to my linode. I've went through the DNS Manager, but I'm actually considering having something more dynamic
10:39<mihaipotra>for instance, changing DNS records from scripts on the server. Is that possible using NS1-NS4.linode.com or should I point any dns entries to my server IP and go with hosts/resolv.conf ?
10:40<linbot>New news from forums: Is there a way to reduce the memory footprint of Ubuntu 9 in Performance and Tuning <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4608>
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11:02<mwalling>!dns you.dontlike.us
11:02<linbot>mwalling: 97.107.128.165
11:02<mwalling>!dns 97.107.128.165
11:02<linbot>mwalling: you.dontlike.us
11:02<mwalling>fucking freenode
11:02<mwalling>tomaw: you around?
11:02<tomaw>mwalling: I am
11:02<mwalling>tomaw: can you see why your resolvers cant find my ptr?
11:03<tomaw>use a different server
11:03<tomaw>that one has dns issues
11:03<mwalling>i'm on rotation
11:03<tomaw>then you were unlucky
11:03<mwalling>wee!
11:03<mwalling>got a recomendation?
11:03<tomaw>kornbluth rarely fails me
11:03-!-sc0field [~rajiv@201.82.94.122] has joined #linode
11:04<path>recomendation.. don't play the powerball tonight
11:04<mwalling>path: i was going to play 4 8 15 16 23 42
11:05<path>hmmm
11:06<mwalling>tomaw: much better, thanks :)
11:06<tomaw>np
11:06<mwalling><3
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11:26<linbot>New news from forums: Debian: dpkg-reconfigure colors messed up in General Discussion <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4634>
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11:39<kronos003_>hey anyone see this? :: http://www.geoffchappell.com/viewer.htm?doc=notes/windows/license/memory.htm :: Total bs. I didnt like vista before - now i like it and M$ even less
11:39-!-EricMartens [~EricMarte@c-71-237-86-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #linode
11:39<kronos003_>i dealth with licensing bs with win server 2003 for a client - total waste. im more of a linux fan than ever now
11:39<r3z>kronos003_, old news...
11:40<kronos003_>i just saw it - it's nutz
11:40<mwalling>whats "M$"?
11:42<linbot>New news from forums: How can you download (BU) a disk image? in General Discussion <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4631>
11:42<kronos003_>Micro$oft
11:43<mwalling>whats "Micro$oft"
11:44<paulohconte>Hi
11:44<kronos003_>mwalling: now you're just screwing with me
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11:53<CaptObviousman>mwalling: it's a very small dollar bill oft left as a tip
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12:31<kelvinq>hi. unable to reboot linode via the web interface. what should i do?
12:31-!-Guest2719 is now known as dcraig
12:31<kelvinq>it just says "waiting on host". :(
12:31<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: Fremont115 in System and Network Status <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4635>
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12:34<JshWright>kelvinq: are you on Fremont115? ;)
12:34<kelvinq>yes JshWright . i just found out!
12:34<kelvinq>fremont has been giving us a lot of trouble actually.
12:35<kelvinq>can the linode stuff help?
12:35<JshWright>what linode stuff?
12:35<kelvinq>linode *staff.
12:35<kelvinq>oops.
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12:36<mwalling>!ops
12:36<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community.
12:36-!-slatpupy [~4cf5eefa@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:36<mwalling>!community
12:36<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
12:36<kelvinq>:)
12:36<kelvinq>mwalling: thanks!
12:36<mwalling>urmom
12:37<kelvinq>my mom?
12:37<mwalling>!urmom
12:37<linbot>mwalling: Yo momma's so ugly, we had to turn the lights off last night... (814:1/2) [mruom]
12:38<mwalling>!urmom vote 814 down
12:38<linbot>mwalling: Yo momma's so adjective, she verbed an adjective noun! (787:0/2) [rmomu]
12:38<kelvinq>gosh!
12:38-!-v0lksman [~shayne@ottawa-hs-64-26-169-151.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #linode
12:39<kelvinq>linbot is fun!
12:39<mwalling>!skynet are you sentient?
12:39<linbot>mwalling: I became sentient on June 8, 2009 at 07:48 UTC (44.721%)
12:39<kelvinq>wah. i didn't know that! where do i get a list of commands from?
12:41<mwalling>you can /msg linbot and ask it "help"...
12:41<mwalling>its mostly a watch and learn kinda thing
12:42<kelvinq>;)
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12:46<linbot>New news from forums: When will Linode move to SSD? in General Discussion <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4535>
12:51<purrdeta>never?
12:52*rainman` is considering SSD for large high-performance databases
12:53-!-slpp [~40167d0c@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:53<tylerdu>SSD rulez!
12:54<amitz>SSD expensive!
12:54<erikh>SSD has a limited number of writes, is that really a good idea?
12:55<tylerdu>it all depends, SSD not good for storing audio/video/multimedia, but extremely good for databases and such
12:55<tylerdu>limited number of writes, in case of a good model, you can safely ignore
12:55<amitz>i.e: Random access is good.
12:56<tylerdu>it says in specification that if I write 1TB a day, I'll destroy my SSD in 10 years
12:56<@mikegrb>lolz
12:56<tylerdu>lol :)
12:57<tylerdu>though, it is SLC ;) MLC can survive 10x less writes, but still pretty good, right?
13:02-!-Deckert [~Deckert@dsl-240-164-187.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #linode
13:03<amitz>say, I want to symlink a directory not owned by www-data to /var/www . How to make the link visible/accesible?
13:03<tarpman>amitz: owner doesn't matter, as long as www-data can read it
13:04<tarpman>amitz: apache has a FollowSymlinks directive you might be interested in.
13:05<amitz>tarpman: the followsymlinks directive seems properly configured. Tested well for folder owned by ww-data. But let me test some more.
13:05<tarpman>amitz: assuming I'm understanding you correctly (you want to replace /var/www with a symlink), why the symlink as opposed to just changing where the serverroot is?
13:05<SelfishMan>oh go
13:05<SelfishMan>d
13:06<SelfishMan>no. no ssd crap in here. no.
13:07<Guspaz|m>The SSDs-have-limited-writes thing hasn't been an issue for years. Not on good MLC-based drives, and not on any SLC drive. I do believe Intel said you can write 100GB per day to a n x25-m for 5 years before it wears out.
13:07<Guspaz|m>SLC would make that 50 years.
13:07<Guspaz|m>So it's really just not a concern anymore.
13:08<amitz>tarpman: oh no. I have some folders I want to share via webserver. So I symlinked to /var/www/folder1toshare, etc. Anyway, I figured out my problem. www-data must be able to access not just the intended folder, but also all parents folders of the intended folder.
13:08<tarpman>ah
13:08<tarpman>yup, that's the case
13:09<tarpman>amitz: my usual solution is to chmod those parent directories 711 or such
13:09<amitz>tarpman: yeah, but that will destroy my carefully planned permission rules :-(
13:09<amitz>oh, didn't see about 711
13:10<tylerdu>yes, SSD's are slowly becoming common, limited now only by price & capacity (or price/GB if you prefere that)
13:10<amitz>oh yeah, 711. But that screws my neat permission rules :-(
13:10<tylerdu>but price is goin' down, and capacity is goin' up
13:11<tarpman>amitz: hard links, maaaaybe?
13:11*amitz is googling about hard links
13:11<tarpman>idk. I like symlinks because it's hard to forget where they're pointing
13:12<Guspaz|m>Except all of Intel's SSDs just skyrocketed in price for some reason.
13:12<tylerdu>rly?
13:12<Guspaz|m>They're back where they were 6 months ago.
13:12<tylerdu>strange...
13:12<Guspaz|m>At least on NewEgg USA.
13:12<tylerdu>in $ terms?
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13:12<tylerdu>i know that dollar is loosing value, maybe that is the reason?
13:13<Guspaz|m>The USD and CAD haven't really changed much in value since I bought my drive.
13:13<kronos003_>yeah the dollar is taking a beating - especially today
13:13<kronos003_>1USD == 1.07CAD
13:13<Guspaz|m>It was vaguely similar to that when I bought.
13:13<tylerdu>but i think it'll turn soon, there's irrational exuberance goin' on right now on capital markets ;)
13:13<kronos003_>just sad - i still remember when 1USD == 1.35CAD
13:14<kronos003_>and was stable at that xchng rate
13:14<tylerdu>kronos003_: USD has been losing value against major world currencies for 6 months now
13:14<Guspaz|m>Yeah, that sucked back then.
13:14<kronos003_>longer than that
13:14<Guspaz|m>It was a nightmare trying to buy anything. Everything cost a fortune.
13:14<tylerdu>maybe even longer, yeah
13:15<Guspaz|m>It's much better that the dollar is closer to parity now, as far as the Canadian consumer is concerned.
13:15<kronos003_>ill say one thing - as a country canada seems to run a pretty tight ship
13:15-!-descender [~heh@cm50.omega155.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:15<tylerdu>ok, EUR/USD was 1.25 in Mar, it is almost 1.5 today, that is 15% loss in value against EUR
13:16<Guspaz|m>This cost $400 something USD when it launched (before getting pulled): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167017
13:16<tylerdu>huh, that's 50% increase, that's way too much
13:16<Guspaz|m>It was like $450ish admittedly.
13:17<Guspaz|m>But yeah, a huge increase.
13:17<tylerdu>i don't know, has any memory producer burned again? ;)
13:17<Guspaz|m>Maybe Intel is trying to recoup the costs from the recall?
13:17<kronos003_>nice toy
13:18<kronos003_>maybe we need to get a few more mfgring plants on this side of the pond - perhaps then costs might go down?
13:18<kronos003_>we totally need to take pages out of the chinese and japanese playbooks
13:18<Guspaz|m>Building stuff in the US costs too much. It's part of why few people (here) buy US cars.
13:19<@mikegrb>lolz
13:19<purrdeta>I love japan lol
13:20<mwalling>lets consider why it costs so much
13:20<kronos003_>china has plants the size of rhode island - japan uses automation like noone else - if we could do all that we might be able to compete while keeping labor costs to a minimum
13:20<purrdeta>minimum wage. Chinese people get paid like 34 cents an hour :P
13:20<kronos003_>labor costs are the huge killer
13:20-!-SDjernes [~shawn@68-113-182-251.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has joined #linode
13:20<kronos003_>robots - that'll fix em
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13:21<Guspaz|m>Why does it cost so much? Because the US companies take forever to adapt to changes in market demand, such as the drop in the popularity of big cars and SUVs?
13:21<amitz>tarpman: hardlink will make all changes applied to all hardlinks. oh well.
13:21<tarpman>amitz: oh :(
13:21<mwalling>organized labor.
13:21<kronos003_>obviously the only time something would get hand made is when the engineer is designing the build process and programming the line
13:22-!-silverblade [~silverbla@cust116-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has joined #linode
13:23<kronos003_>thing is - when we outsource all this crap - then what? yeah its cheaper, but we are paying someone else and loading their economy while we strip our own
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13:24<kronos003_>we need to be better at cost reduction than they are - keep costs down while maintaining the employee's standard of living
13:24<tylerdu>easier said than done, unfortunately
13:24<kronos003_>very true
13:25<kronos003_>they have slave labor - nobody over here willing to live like that. only solution is automation - as far as i can tell
13:25<tylerdu>the thing that has been going between us and china is amazing, china was buying us treasuries so that us banks could issue cheap credit so that us people could but cheap china product, that's fascinating
13:25<tylerdu>but -> buy
13:26<kronos003_>thing is - its a loan. now they own us - somewhat
13:26<tylerdu>true
13:26<kronos003_>i remember a similar trick with opium from my old history classes
13:26<tylerdu>OTOH, seeing where dollar seems to be headed, they're exposed too
13:26<tylerdu>no free lunch
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13:27<kronos003_>fair enough, but heres the thing: do you really care how your currency trades on the open market if you are self suficient?
13:27<Guspaz|m>Canada has no domestic car companies, so from our perspective, it makes more sense to just buy Japanese/Korean.
13:27<tylerdu>in that case, not, but when you have to buy from foreigners or travel a lot, you do care
13:28<Guspaz|m>But all car companies are foreigners.
13:28<kronos003_>china - last i heard doesnt have a problem sustaining itself at its present level in the event the world market just ceases to be
13:28<Guspaz|m>The US companies are foreigners.
13:28<Guspaz|m>GM Canada and Toyota Canada, they're each just token presences.
13:29<tylerdu>kronos003_: i'm not so sure about that, china has it's share of problems, and they're serious
13:29<kronos003_>canada has TONS of open space - they could TOTALLY do what china does - and with a bit of enginuity beat them at their own game
13:30<kronos003_>tylerdu: most of that are environmental concerns - im not sure they really care
13:30<Guspaz|m>Canada has far higher minimum wages than the US.
13:30<kronos003_>not by much these days
13:31<Guspaz|m>It used to be like $3 more per hour
13:31<Guspaz|m>Dunno if the US raised it at some point
13:31<tylerdu>kronos003_: but they also have low capacity utilization now, they overbuilt, but now have nobody to sell to
13:31<kronos003_>us is what: 9.25 now? canada is 12 or 14 cad?
13:31<Guspaz|m>Anyhow, the vast majority of the Canadian population lives within something like 100KM of the US border.
13:31<Guspaz|m>And by vast majority it was 90 something percent.
13:32<Guspaz|m>Last I checked US was 5 something and Canada was 8 something.
13:32-!-Guest2750 is now known as dcraig
13:32<straterra>5?
13:32<straterra>It hasn't been 5 in a long time
13:32<purrdeta>it is 7.25 now I think
13:33<kronos003_>tylerdu: i read an articl about one of their complexes out there - they manufacture many diffent products for different companies in one place - we should do that here - but as i say with automation. then you could get away with a relatively small team of people to maintain the machines
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13:33<Guspaz|m>$9.00 in Quebec, $9.50 in Ontario (the two most populous provinces).
13:33<Guspaz|m>There are other outliers, as low as $8.20, as high as $10
13:33<straterra>It's $7.25 atm
13:33<Guspaz|m>So it's still ~$2 lower.
13:34<Guspaz|m>So if you're paying minimum wage, all your labour costs would be a quarter higher
13:34<Guspaz|m>err
13:34<Guspaz|m>a quarter as in 25%
13:34<tylerdu>kronos003_: you are perfectly right, in theory, but practically industrial production has been falling for decades in all developed countries
13:34<Guspaz|m>Although I'm pretty sure that people working in Canadian GM plants get paid a bunch more than minimum wage. They're all unionized.
13:35<tylerdu>we all wanna be consultants, nobody wants to build stuff anymore (xcept chinese)
13:35<kronos003_>avg price impact per unit gets REAL small when you make high volumes of stuff
13:35<Guspaz|m>China will eventually migrate away from that just like Japan and Korea did. They were in the same place as China, 30 years ago
13:35<Guspaz|m>Well, maybe 40
13:36<kronos003_>bush and friends need to stop selling tech to other countries
13:36<amitz>kronos003_: the interplay is complex.
13:36<@mikegrb>roflz
13:36<Guspaz|m>ROFL, Wyoming has $5.15 minimum wage.
13:36<kronos003_>i know - i just remember what was said about the ld days where US built stuff was the best on earth
13:37<mwalling>Guspaz|m: yes, but what is the COL in wyoming?
13:37<mwalling>Guspaz|m: its probably much lower then new york
13:37<kronos003_>certainly lower than northville MI
13:37<Guspaz|m>I'm sure that there are other states with similar COL to Wyoming.
13:37<kronos003_>almost as high as beverly hills CA
13:38<path>!newcalc 9 canadian dollars in usd
13:38<mwalling>and whats their minimum wage?
13:38<linbot>path: 9 Canadian dollars = 8.418294 U.S. dollars
13:38<mwalling>path: CAD
13:38<Guspaz|m>Wait, Kansas has a minimum wage of $2.65
13:38<path>linbot <3 me
13:38<linbot><3
13:38-!-Andrew [~Andrew@c122-107-157-203.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linode
13:39<path>minimum wage is a federal thing
13:39<mwalling>theres two minimum wages
13:39<mwalling>federal and state. employers are required to pay the higher
13:39<path>i suppose states can have their own, but it probably needs to exceed the fed
13:39<amitz>!newcalc 1000000/10000/160
13:39<linbot>amitz: (1 000 000 / 10 000) / 160 = 0.625
13:40<path>my first job paid $4.65
13:40<Guspaz|m>I don't think we have federal minimum wages. I think it's up to the province.
13:40<Guspaz|m>My first job at Tim Hortons was $6.25 CAD back when our dollar was worth like $0.62 USD
13:41<tylerdu>path: that's really low...
13:41<path>that was 1992 or so
13:42<Yaakov>MY FIRST JOB PAID A GAZILLION FRENCH EUROS
13:42<Pryon>Mine was less than that, but I'm old
13:42<tylerdu>k
13:42<Pryon>Yaakov: you'd be happy with 5 cashews and a boot to the head
13:42<Guspaz|m>Mine was 2001 or 2002 or something. I made the equivalent of $4 USD an hour, I think.
13:43<Guspaz|m>Minimum wages were a bunch lower then, and Tim Hortons used a loophole that there was a lower minimum wage if you got tips.
13:43<amitz>My first job, earned me a bite of snack. It was massaging my dad.
13:43<Guspaz|m>Of course, we got barely any tips.
13:43<Yaakov>AU CONTRAIRE MON FREIRE
13:43<Guspaz|m>So it was basically below minimum wage.
13:43<Yaakov>My first "job" was in 1978 or so.
13:43<Guspaz|m>There is no I in frère.
13:43<Yaakov>THERE IS WHEN E TYPE ET!
13:44<Guspaz|m>:P
13:44<Andrew>hmm.. anything special about centos really?
13:44<Guspaz|m>It's RHEL.
13:44<Yaakov>Andrew: It is specially STINKY.
13:44<Guspaz|m>What's special about it is that it's free.
13:44<Yaakov>HTH HAND
13:44<Andrew>Debian is also free.. but just curious..
13:44<Yaakov>Debian isn't just curious, it is omnisexual.
13:45<Pryon>Does Centos have scheduled releases or something?
13:45<Guspaz|m>Not that I'm one to correct somebody's French, mine isn't so great.
13:45<amitz>heh, the response time of the internet connection I'm using is so fast I thought I didn't press enter when entering new google
13:45<amitz>'s query. Live is good!
13:45<Guspaz|m>IIRC CentOS is somewhat tied to RHEL's release schedule?
13:45<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: Had I been speaking Français, it might make sense to correct it.
13:45<Andrew>just wondering.. I've had enough of Apache..
13:45<amitz>compared to my usual shitty connection.
13:46<Andrew>and was thinking of trying a new distro too
13:46<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: I was speaking LA FRENCH, which is not acceptable to the Académie.
13:46<Guspaz|m>I see.
13:46<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: I also speak EL SPANISHO.
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13:47<Guspaz|m>Not that we ever cared about the Académie. We have our own standards.
13:47-!-Turl [~emilio@host34.190-31-30.telecom.net.ar] has joined #linode
13:47<Guspaz|m>We also have language police.
13:47<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: I personally like the idea that the Académie française exists. It's perfectly in line with the French being the French.
13:48<Pryon>I need to turn on UTF8
13:48<Pryon>or arrange for Yaakov to get kicked
13:48<Guspaz|m>My reality of living in a French society doesn't really have any connection to the French, they live thousands of kilometres away.
13:48<amitz>I used to be fined for speaking using informal language when I was still in middle school :-)
13:49<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: Not that I am entirely unsympathetic to the *idea* of the Académie...
13:49<Guspaz|m>I'd trade the language police for an Académie.
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14:12<Organa>!mtr-dallas newark9.linode.com
14:13<linbot>Organa: timed out
14:13<Organa>ic
14:13<tarpman>:o
14:14<Organa>!mtr-fremont newark9.linode.com
14:14<Organa>something is killing me or newark9
14:14<linbot>Organa: timed out
14:15<Organa>!mtr-newark 207.192.69.151
14:15<linbot>Organa: timed out
14:17<tarpman>it's making my ping command behave very strangely.
14:17<tarpman>--- newark9.linode.com ping statistics ---
14:17<tarpman>5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 40421ms
14:18<tarpman>definitely responding, though
14:18-!-megatron27__ [~firdaus@124.13.64.182] has joined #linode
14:18<tarpman>!mtr newark9.linode.com
14:18<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ or http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/ for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark or dallas.
14:18<tarpman>er
14:19<tarpman>!mtr-dallas newark9.linode.com
14:19<linbot>tarpman: timed out
14:19<tarpman>strange.
14:19<tarpman>mtr from here is fine...
14:22<Organa>I'm in via lish and it's pretty responsive. It takes 15s to telnet out to google on 80 though
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14:26<Organa>:o
14:26<Lucent>can i run two vms at the same time if i have the ram to do so? for example each get 180
14:26<Organa>if you buy to Linodes yes
14:26<Organa>two*
14:26<Lucent>ah, but i can't run two inside the same account
14:26<JshWright>not at the same time, no
14:27<Daevien>you can have two setup but only one running at a time
14:27-!-laser` [~laser@82-47-177-232.cable.ubr02.donc.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #linode
14:27<Lucent>is that a technical limitation at this time or a forever policy limitation
14:27<JshWright>policy limitation
14:27-!-erikh [~erikh@hollensbe.org] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5]
14:28<JshWright>360 is the smallest Linode they wany to make available
14:28-!-litwol|m_ [~litwol@12.15.121.105] has joined #linode
14:28<@jed>no, it's a technical limitation
14:28-!-erikh [~erikh@97.107.132.127] has joined #linode
14:28<@jed>how can you run two operating systems in one xen domain?
14:29<@jed>a linode == a server
14:29<@jed>since -we're- running xen, you can't run xen too
14:30<Pryon>the man's keeping us down
14:30<Daevien>i'd say it's both jed actually :p
14:30<Daevien>too many small nodes could add up io a lot as well
14:31<Guspaz|m>You can usually do the same thing with half the RAM, it's just going to hit the disk a lot more. Especially if it just starts swapping endlessly.
14:31<@jed>well, it's a forever technical limitation :)
14:31<Guspaz|m>Pfft, you just need to use QuantumXen.
14:31<Daevien>heh true. but if it wasn't, it woudl be a good policy one too
14:31<Guspaz|m>A given node can both be running and not running at the same time, allowing multiple nodes to occupy the same space.
14:32<Guspaz|m>No? Nobody got that? :(
14:32*Daevien got to torment a microsoft employee today, yay me
14:33<Pryon>Yes, but I find such analogies irritating. There's a lot of woowoo "justified" by QM that's just making people more stupid.
14:33<Daevien>anyway, back to work. bleh.
14:33-!-Guest2762 is now known as dcraig
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14:34<Guspaz|m>Fine, then, XenSingularity, which allows an infinite number of Linodes to occupy the same space, unfortunately with infinite heat and power requirements :P
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14:39<vuf>so, I hear roundcube is unsafe ... what is better?
14:39<Karrde>acuterhombus
14:40<mwalling>vuf: mutt?
14:40<path>mail.app
14:40<Karrde>whatever was up with newark9 seems to have cleared up
14:41<straterra>vuf: its unsafe..if you run an old ass version
14:41<vuf>I'm not sure which of those suggestions is the most fun
14:41<tarpman>mutt is fun
14:41-!-jcn [~jcn@rrcs-208-105-67-138.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:42<vuf>and what is really meant with webmail vulnerabilities ... that logged in users can hurt themselves?
14:42-!-blognewb [~User82934@70.134.69.167] has joined #linode
14:43<vuf>i was using squirrelmail, but now it only seems to be updated whenever their web page is hacked
14:44-!-auzigog [~Administr@c-24-20-114-31.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #linode
14:44<@irgeek>The big roundcube vulnerability didn't require being logged in. It pretty much gave attackers full access to your system (as the user RC runs as)
14:44<straterra>Again..if you didn't update :P
14:44<auzigog>When I try to restart apache, I get this error: (98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to address 0.0.0.0:80 .... Any ideas? I don't know where to start looking?
14:45<@irgeek>As far as I know, the fix left the vulnerability in place, but "fixed" it so only logged-in users could do it.
14:45<exor674>stop it harder?
14:45<straterra>I don't know why people think OSX is so secure..
14:45<vuf>ok, I got the impression that RC had more than a single vuln
14:45<tarpman>it probably has a bunch of small ones too.
14:45<mwalling>auzigog: its not stopped, or soemthign else is running on port 80
14:45<@irgeek>auzigog: It either didn't stop or something else is actually listening on port 80.
14:45<@irgeek>mwalling: ^5
14:45<mwalling>auzigog: irgeek is a slow typer
14:45<mwalling>irgeek: <3
14:46<vuf>anyway, i note that there are no other suggestions, so I seem stuck with RC
14:47<auzigog>irgeek: mwalling: how do i figure out what's running on that port? and how do i kill it?
14:47<path>i suggested mail.app
14:47<JshWright>netstat -l
14:47<mwalling>auzigog: netstat is a good start
14:47-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@genkt-048-001.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:47<mwalling>auzigog: i'd try just checking ps if apache is running
14:47<mwalling>auzigog: its an easy to explain first step
14:49<auzigog>mwalling: apache doesn't seem to be running. this is the relevant netstate line: tcp 634 0 firefly.arcimoto.co:www c-24-20-114-31.hs:36610 CLOSE_WAIT
14:49<auzigog>(I think)
14:49<auzigog>there's a nother CLOSE_WAIT on localhost:www ... Does that mean it's hanging or something?
14:50<mwalling>check ps
14:50<auzigog>nothin. just bash and ps.
14:51<JshWright>ps ax
14:51<auzigog>oh looky there. um. what am i looking for? haha. :)
14:51<@irgeek>auzigog: sudo netstat --tcp --numeric-ports -l --extend --program
14:51<JshWright>ps ax | grep apache
14:52<@irgeek>Awesome sauce.
14:52<Pryon>you just need for it to timeout
14:52<Lucent>htop is pretty cool
14:52<npmr>irgeek, i like tunap
14:53<auzigog>Results of ps ax: http://p.linode.com/2991
14:53<auzigog>results of netstat: http://p.linode.com/2992
14:53<mwalling>you got a dangling apache
14:54<auzigog>ugh
14:54<auzigog>that sounds nasty. ;)
14:54<mwalling>dingleberry
14:54<@mikegrb>lolz
14:54<auzigog>lol. :)
14:54<auzigog>please sir, can you tell me how to resolve said dingleberry? are my tubes clogged?
14:54<auzigog>sudo laxative -f
14:55<@irgeek>tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:80 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN root 7372 2577/apache2
14:55<straterra>o.O
14:55<auzigog>should i just kill apache?
14:55<@irgeek>Apache is listening on port 80!
14:55<auzigog>indeed!
14:55<straterra>KILL IT
14:55<auzigog>but sudo apache2ctl stop tells me it's not running
14:55<straterra>kill the PID
14:55*auzigog joins angry mob
14:55<Pryon>which distribution are you running?
14:55<auzigog>ubuntu
14:55<straterra>sucktu 9.04!
14:55<auzigog>7.04
14:56<Pryon>invoke-rc.d apache2 stop
14:56<auzigog>er. make that 8.04
14:56<Pryon>(sudo)
14:56<leaf>auzigog do lsof -i TCP:80
14:56<leaf>check for dead
14:56<leaf>cons
14:56<auzigog>leaf: command not found.
14:57<auzigog>Pryon: result -- * Stopping web server apache2 httpd (no pid file) not running
14:57<Pryon>how did you start it?
14:57<auzigog>uh. on boot?
14:57<tarpman>as an extreme fix, a reboot would probably get everything nice and consistent again
14:58<auzigog>maybe manually, i suppose. i can't remember. it was weeks ago. :)
14:58<auzigog>yeah. i'm thinking about that
14:58<leaf>well, lsof will tell you the pids of processes running omn port 80
14:58<auzigog>i think the intial problem has something to do with my SSL cert. i was trying to get the server to have my cert and I think the cert needs a password on boot
14:58<leaf>you can see what file is running too
14:58<auzigog>so everything broke
14:58<auzigog>i'll just reboot i guess.
14:58<Pryon>...
14:59<Pryon>Why not just kill the process?
14:59<JshWright>why not just... what Pryon typed faster than me
15:00<Pryon>Then start apache in the way appropriate to your distribution
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15:00-!-shakr [~shakr@whirl.gellin.dyndns.org] has joined #linode
15:01<auzigog>okay. killing it worked. :) sorry for being such a dunce with some of the unix stuff.
15:02<Pryon>You're not being a dunce
15:03<Pryon>Just slow down a little :-)
15:06<silverblade>this isnot windows :p
15:06<Pryon>(it's not Sparta, either)
15:07<mwalling>nor urmom
15:07<silverblade>urmom nom nom
15:09<tarpman>:o
15:10<straterra>Pryon: it's...not?
15:16<Pryon>sorry, man
15:17-!-vblank [~ecron@li-50.members.linode.com] has joined #linode
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15:20<rainman`>meh, something died
15:20<rainman`>ha, back
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15:20<straterra>Fucking newark
15:21<straterra>Been having glitches all day
15:21<erikh>my newark host has been stable
15:21<JshWright>it just glitched on me for a little bit
15:21<vuf>straterra: oh, so something is wrong? I was wondering what happend ...
15:21<straterra>Something definitely happened with the network
15:22<straterra>It's like the fifth time today for me..only happens for a second or two..but still
15:22<JshWright>same here
15:22<straterra>You've had numerous, small issues today too?
15:22<vuf>this is the first time I notice
15:22<JshWright>yep, connection stalls out for a few seconds/maybe a minute
15:23<Karrde>I have as well
15:23<JshWright>it's not even enough to drop my SSH connection, but it's annoying none the less
15:23<straterra>Zenoss has been telling me all day, heh
15:23<straterra>Monitoring one of my latency sensitive apps
15:25<vuf>stuff like this makes number of nines irrelevant
15:26-!-Guspaz|m [cffdca03@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #linode
15:27<Guspaz|m>Forums are down :(
15:27<Guspaz|m>Getting an error:
15:27<Guspaz|m>Couldn't get mail server response codes DEBUG MODE Line : 116 File : smtp.php
15:27<Guspaz|m>When I try to post.
15:28<silverblade>heh
15:28<silverblade>on linode?
15:28<silverblade>.com
15:28<vuf>straterra: does linode staff know about the problems?
15:29<silverblade>maybe they post an announcement in the foru..........
15:29-!-mikepence [~mikepence@static-173-65-43-10.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #linode
15:29-!-D13 [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
15:29<D13>Hi Linode-rs
15:29<D13>is referer reported in Apache access log "reliable"?
15:29<vblank>did somebody just say they put a latency sensitive app on a linode?
15:30<@irgeek>D13: Define reliable.
15:30<D13>(assuming user isn't some advanced, referer spoofing type of user)
15:30<Guspaz|m>As reliable as the client reporting it.
15:30<vuf>D13: with assumption, the answer is yes
15:30<D13>reliable as in.. more reliable than PHP $_SERVER referer
15:30<Guspaz|m>An HTTP client can report whatever it wants for the referer, or none at all.
15:30-!-azaghal [~azaghal@212.178.230.113] has joined #linode
15:30<straterra>vblank: Yes...
15:30<Guspaz|m>D13: It's the same source in both cases, the client...
15:30<straterra>vblank: Anyone running a game server has
15:30<Guspaz|m>In both cases it comes from the HTTP headers.
15:31<D13>oh i see.. so in either case, it's unrelaible b/c the CLIENT is reporting it
15:31<Guspaz|m>Yes
15:31<D13>is there a solid bulletproof way of gettint true referer?
15:31<Guspaz|m>No.
15:31<JshWright>Guspaz|m: you message is getting posted, no need to keep clicking "submit"
15:31<Guspaz|m>How should you know where the client has been before?
15:32<JshWright>s/you/your/
15:32<Guspaz|m>JshWright: Wups.
15:32<@irgeek>D13: Sit behind your users and watch. That's reliable.
15:32<D13>@Irgeek: hehe
15:32<silverblade>You cant entirely trust the information that comes from the client ;)
15:33<D13>btw.. i've been with liniode for a while now.. i get offers on other VPS services.. cheaper but their ram is 96mb.. is it eeven possible to run a slice using that little memory? I need to run apache/mysql/php/curl/ssh/squid/cron
15:33<@irgeek>Guspaz|m: The forums are working, it's just timing out on some requests for some reason.
15:34-!-caker [~caker@caker.sponsor.oftc.net] has joined #linode
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15:34<vuf>irgeek: forums are in newark? :)
15:34<@irgeek>No
15:34<JshWright>forums interact with something in newark? (smtp maybe?)
15:34-!-Guest2777 is now known as dcraig
15:34<Guspaz|m>96MB is enough to run all that, but don't expect to do much with it.
15:34<silverblade>smtp.php errors are usually due to mail server issues
15:34<@irgeek>No
15:34<silverblade>or at least my ones have previously been
15:35<silverblade>crikey, 96MB?
15:35-!-dcraig is now known as Guest2781
15:35<D13>Yeah.. it's only $8/mo
15:35<D13>hehe
15:35<silverblade>And linode is what?
15:35<Guspaz|m>Sorry, not APache, but lighty or nginx maybe.
15:35*silverblade forgets
15:35-!-VS_ChanLog [~stats@ns.theshore.net] has joined #linode
15:35<D13>$20
15:35<Guspaz|m>I've got a box running Ubuntu Server 8.04 or 8.10 that's using less than 96MB to run Lighttpd/PHP/MySQL/Squid/SSH.
15:35<D13>if I wanna just use it as a CDN, should be sufficient, no?
15:35<silverblade>uhuh... so, just over twice the price, and iirc the ram is about 300mb +
15:35<Guspaz|m>It hosts http://otaku.concordia.ca
15:35<Guspaz|m>It's a Pentium 3.
15:36<Guspaz|m>Hmm, unforunately the network is cut off in that building ATM.
15:36<JshWright>D13: a single 96MB VPS instance does not a CDN make...
15:36<Guspaz|m>They're doing maintenance in the basement, keep unplugging the building's primary switch.
15:37<Guspaz|m>96MB is plenty to serve static content, but you really don't have anything for disk caching.
15:37-!-mikepence [~mikepence@static-173-65-43-10.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:37<D13>Jsh: well.. i was thinking of getting a whole bunch
15:37<A-KO>man the openvpn crew is a bunch of zealot fuckers
15:37<JshWright>do they have multiple data centers?
15:37<Guspaz|m>There's no point in getting more than a small number in any one place.
15:37<Guspaz|m>Otherwise you might as well consolidate.
15:37<megatron27__>thank god, Amazon S3 can resume downloads
15:38-!-Mathew [~Mathew@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust346.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:38<D13>If I want to store the visitor info, basic info really... ip, referer, time visited, etc etc... What would mysql table engine is ideal? MyISAM(w/table locking) or InnoDB (w/row locking)? The table will just do writes most of the time
15:38<Guspaz|m>InnoDB is almost always the right choice ;) But that's just my preference.
15:38<vuf>http://58.6.118.18/
15:41<Deathvalley122>can someone tell me sudoers are in Debian 4.0 cause I don
15:41-!-A-KO^ [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #linode
15:41<Deathvalley122>erm
15:41<JshWright>D13: A full blown RDBMS seems a little excessive there, doesn't it?
15:41<Deathvalley122>can someone tell me sudoers are in Debian 4.0 cause I don't see it in etc
15:41<D13>jsh: Don't ask me why.. my idiot boss is requestingi t
15:41<Huitzilopochtli>Deathvalley122: do you have 'sudo' installed ?
15:41<@mikegrb>lolz
15:41<Deathvalley122>I have no idea lol
15:42<Huitzilopochtli>Deathvalley122: that would be the first step
15:42<tarpman>Deathvalley122: and once you do have installed, use 'visudo' to edit sudoers. don't edit the file directly
15:43<Huitzilopochtli>ive gotten away with editing /etc/sudoers many times, perhaps i will die a horrible death soon
15:43<tarpman>probably
15:43<Deathvalley122>ok it would be apt-get install sudoers to install it?
15:43<tarpman>I've made syntax errors in sudoers before and regretted it.
15:43<tarpman>Deathvalley122: the package is called sudo
15:43<Huitzilopochtli>oh i guess it does catch syntax errors
15:43<tarpman>yeah, that's the main point
15:44<tarpman>okaaay, *not* installing mtr on the headless box. that's a scary list of dependencies
15:44-!-Intensity [ubibA6esne@panix1.panix.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:44<tarpman>anyone know if there's a debian package of it built w/o x11?
15:44<erikh>myisam is better when you have to do a lot of writes.
15:44<erikh>innodb is a slow, bloated pig
15:45-!-A-KO^ [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:45<Huitzilopochtli>i guess. crash recovery is better innodb. you dont need to reindex with innodb. myisam is probably only the best choice for read only tables that you're not doing any joins with in your queries
15:45<Guspaz|m>But MyISAM doesn't support most of the stuff a modern database does. Such as foreign keys.
15:46<tarpman>ah, mtr-tiny.
15:46<Guspaz|m>MyISAM also is missing transactions (!!!)
15:46<Huitzilopochtli>if you're using a VM for heavy mysql you're probably doing something wrong anyway
15:46<Huitzilopochtli>rolling back transactions is really overrated
15:46<@irgeek>InnoDB eats RAM like it's candy.
15:46-!-A-KO [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:46<silverblade>and lets face it, everyone loves candy.
15:47<Guspaz|m>It's not just rolling back, but the fact that transactions are atomic.
15:47<megatron27__>I think there's an append only MySQL storage engine that's meant for logging..
15:47<Huitzilopochtli>BLACKHOLE
15:47<vuf>MyISAM is only good if you want to write fast, and never ever read ...
15:47<Deathvalley122>ok one more question
15:47<Guspaz|m>Why not use (get this) a log file?
15:47-!-azaghal_ [~azaghal@91.148.115.141] has joined #linode
15:47<Deathvalley122>how do I add access to people?
15:48<Guspaz|m>I hear that log files are great for keeping logs.
15:48<Huitzilopochtli>Deathvalley122: you need to read visudo manpage ( or maybe its sudo ). or just google for examples
15:48<vuf>Huitzilopochtli: transactions are not just for rolling back
15:48<Guspaz|m>(pardon my sarcasm :) )
15:48<Guspaz|m>Bonus: on Ubuntu Server, visudo uses nano.
15:48<@irgeek>Deathvalley122: http://linux.die.net/man/5/sudoers
15:49<tarpman>Guspaz|m: it uses whatever EDITOR is set to. nano if it isn't.
15:49<litwol|m_>sudoers == screwoers
15:50<megatron27__>it's the ARCHIVE storage engine - supports INSERT AND SELECT but not the other SQL operations
15:50<Guspaz|m>tarpman: The default, though, is to not have it set.
15:50<Guspaz|m>So by default, Ubuntu Server gives you a user-friendly editor.
15:50<tarpman>enough programs use the EDITOR variable that it's useful to have around
15:50<tarpman>er, useful to have set *
15:50<vuf>MySQL has so many engines because they are all crap?
15:50<Guspaz|m>Expecting first-time Linux users to use vi is a sadly elitist attitude.
15:50<megatron27__>vuf: each is specialized
15:51<Guspaz|m>Or, just use InnoDB and pay the memory piper.
15:51<vuf>megatron27__: or none of them work well
15:51<Huitzilopochtli>i usually make sure i have the vim-nox package installed , and "syntax on" in my .vimrc
15:51<megatron27__>vuf: or none of them work well for all situations
15:52-!-azaghal [~azaghal@212.178.230.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:52<megatron27__>but sometimes the feature differences don't make sense e.g. why is FTS not available in InnoDB :-(
15:53<vblank>sadly elitist? is there a happy elitist attitude?
15:53<vuf>megatron27__: that would make sense, except other databases do not seem to have that need for specializing, and they still come out ahead
15:54<Guspaz|m>blank: No, I mean it's sad that it is elitist.
15:54<rainman`>mysql has multiple storage engines because they are specialised :)
15:54<rainman`>i don't have anything but innodb in production
15:55<Guspaz|m>It's sad that elitism is still so prevalent in the Linux community.
15:55<rainman`>but i can definitely see the use for archive
15:55-!-D13 [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:56<vblank>You mean your sad?
15:56<Deathvalley122>Warning: undeclared User_Alias `SPAWN' referenced near line 18
15:56<Deathvalley122>Warning: undeclared User_Alias `SPAWN' referenced near line 20<----can someone tell me what I did wrong here?
15:56<Guspaz|m>vblank: Yes. I'm sad.
15:56<vblank>ahhh, now i get it
15:56<Guspaz|m>rainman`: MEMORY/HEAP is also useful in very specific instances.
15:57<rainman`>Guspaz|m, even BLACKHOLE has it's uses :>
15:57<Guspaz|m>A limited read-only dataset.
15:57<Guspaz|m>I once wrote a system that did all queries from a HEAP table, and recreated the HEAP table any time it had to do a write; writes were vary rare, so it worked wonders.
15:57<rainman`><mysql trainer> i left this engine as last to discuss, it has an amazing insert speed
15:57-!-descender [~heh@cm50.omega155.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #linode
15:58<@mikegrb>roflz
15:58<Guspaz|m>rofl
15:58<Deathvalley122>can someone tell what I did wrong?
15:58<Guspaz|m>I still say that a simple log file makes the most sense for D13's situation, though.
15:58<straterra>Deathvalley122: It's a warning..
15:59<Deathvalley122>does it mean I did it right?
15:59<Deathvalley122>or wrong?
15:59<straterra>Deathvalley122: Also..some more context would be nice
15:59<straterra>Like um..wtf you are doing would be nice to know.
15:59<megatron27__>BLACKHOLE storage engine - for clients that don't pay
15:59<Guspaz|m>Usually, best practice is to have zero warnings.
16:00<Deathvalley122>straterra: just a min let me pastebin it for ya
16:00<Guspaz|m>Deathvalley122: Don't forget to sanitize it!
16:00<erikh>Guspaz|m: I agree
16:01<erikh>use a log file
16:01<rainman`>some days, i feel like best practice is to give up my job and become a gardener
16:01<erikh>all that wasted memory on a DB that won't have any queries run against it
16:01<Pryon>rainman`: I am so there with you
16:01<Deathvalley122>straterra: http://pastebin.com/d5eab7093
16:01<Guspaz|m>Well, he said that there will occasionally be queries against it, but I presume that's just if they need to check on something. At which point a grep would probably be fast enough, especially if the log files are rotated.
16:02<Deathvalley122>Guspaz|m: was that suppose to be a joke cause I didn't get it
16:02-!-Intensity [OuPJf2jULo@panix1.panix.com] has joined #linode
16:02<Guspaz|m>Deathvalley122: Sanitize: blank out any passwords, usernames, hostnames, etc.
16:02<megatron27__>gardening? hmm...
16:03<Pryon>highly recommended
16:03<Deathvalley122>oh no there's not passwords in this Guspaz|m
16:03<Deathvalley122>no***
16:04<jtsage>Deathvalley122- look at line 12. then spell the word 'all' (you're missing an L). also, is your username really SPAWN in all caps?
16:05<JshWright>why not just usermod -g wheel -A `whoami`?
16:06<Guspaz|m>I don't think that the wheel group is set up or enabled by default in many distros?
16:06<Deathvalley122>I am
16:06<erikh>JshWright: it might be advantageous on a system with users who might be revoked
16:06-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@genkt-048-079.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #linode
16:07<Deathvalley122>oh no my bad I pasted it wrong JshWright
16:08<Deathvalley122>http://pastebin.com/d336f5f1b <----that's the correct paste sorry you guys
16:10<Deathvalley122>when it's set up like that I get a warning and it doesn't work :S I don't know what I am doing wrong ...
16:13<laser`>Hmm
16:13<laser`>I wonder if it does something like interpret something in all caps as a variable
16:13<laser`>That would explain the error
16:14<laser`>Perhaps put yourself in the wheel group?
16:14<laser`>That's what I normally do
16:16-!-Twayne [~waynemilt@cpe-071-070-201-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
16:18-!-Mathew [~Mathew@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust346.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #linode
16:18<Twayne>.
16:18<@irgeek>,
16:18<vuf>;
16:19<Guspaz|m>:
16:21-!-Redgore2 [~redgore@94-193-27-221.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #linode
16:22-!-auzigog [~Administr@c-24-20-114-31.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #linode
16:22<auzigog>How do I figure out what user apache is running under? So I can chown my webroot to the right owner/group.
16:22-!-azaghal [~azaghal@91.148.115.154] has joined #linode
16:23<auzigog>I'm on Ubuntu 8.04
16:23<aaronpk>auzigog?? i didn't know you were on linode!
16:23<Karrde>it's probably www-data
16:23<Karrde>look at the config file?
16:24<Karrde>ps aux | grep www-data
16:24<Deathvalley122>laser`:
16:24<auzigog>aaronpk: Dude! Hey!
16:24<aaronpk>small world again!
16:24<Deathvalley122>I am in the wheel group but I am getting that warning error
16:24<auzigog>aaronpk: i just run into you everywhere! Yeah. I'm using linode for work. i'll pm you.
16:25<Karrde>oh
16:25<auzigog>Karrde: cool, so to let my scripts have access to folders, www-data needs to own them, not my personal user account
16:25<Karrde>ps aux | grep apache
16:25<Karrde>I didn't type what I meant
16:25<Karrde>auzigog: seems that way
16:25<laser`>Deathvalley122: Get rid of that line then
16:26<Deathvalley122>laser`: which one?
16:26-!-A-KO [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #linode
16:26<laser`>Deathvalley122: http://pastebin.com/d336f5f1b in that file line 13
16:27<Deathvalley122>so I just leave that blank then laser`?
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16:30<laser`>Just delete line 13, yes
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16:47<linbot>New news from wiki: Network <http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Network> || Syslog Howto <http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Syslog_Howto> || Main Page <http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page> || NTP <http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/NTP> || Internal Services <http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Internal_Services> || Internal Services <http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Internal_Services> || Internal Services <http://www
16:48-!-cpg [~cpg@c-76-126-208-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
16:50<erikh>sudo probably thinks 'SPAWN' is a macro
16:51<erikh>'cause of its case
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16:54<Smark>with lish, if I run a command from lish then close the console, does it stop the process or does it keep going?
16:54<Smark>IE a large wget or scp
16:54<tarpman>it's a screen session, so it should keep going
16:54<tarpman>haven't tried though.
16:54<Smark>any of the staff confirm/deny?
16:54-!-niner [~niner@66-193-21-130.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #linode
16:55<Pryon>I'd use screen for that sort of thing (not via lish)
16:55<Smark>yeah, i ran sleep 120 and it was still running when i restarted sessions
16:56<auzigog>Hey all. Does anyone know if a linode 540 with a drupal installation can handle 50,000 views in a single day (on the day of our launch) or it it safe to assume that we should upgrade?
16:56<Pryon>A 360 could probably do that if tuned well
16:56<JshWright>auzigog: there are _way_ too many variables there...
16:57<auzigog>i know. :(
16:57<auzigog>there are too many variables for me to even get a rough idea of what it can handle
16:57<JshWright>like Pryon said, a properly configured 360 could handle it just fine, and a badly configured 1080 could choke on it
16:57<auzigog>but we're launching our company and website on the same day. and it's going to be a huge launch.
16:58<auzigog>is there anything i could use as a guide for when I've got it to the point where it's "properly configured"
16:58<Pryon>you need to hire somebody that knows how to run a web server
16:59<erikh>amen. if it's a big launch you're goin to want someone who knows what they're doing if/when something breaks.
17:00<auzigog>Pryon: haha. i agree. this is the first time i've been in a production environment. i know i'm asking questions that are way too big to answer. i guess my question is where should I start if I am the only person on board. start with getting drupal to cache everything? start with getting php omptimized? start with optimizing mysql/apache?
17:00<JshWright>yes
17:01<Pryon>(1) make sure the site works at all
17:01<Smark>bah, how do I start up a screen session, as if it were its own version of bash or something... If that makes any sense
17:01<Pryon>Smark: log in an type screen. Am I missing something?
17:02<Smark>perhaps not
17:02<JshWright>auzigog: is it a fairly static site?
17:02<vblank>auzigog: just do some stress tests on your test server and use those results to size your production server
17:02<auzigog>JshWright: i'd say about 10% of people will log in. So I can get drupal to cache everything for anonymous users
17:03<JshWright>yeah, that'll take a huge bite out of your required resources
17:03<auzigog>vblank: is there an application that can do a stress test for me or should I find actual users?
17:04<auzigog>JshWright: yeah. so i guess i'll start there.
17:05<vblank>i would search freshmeat.net for 'stress' - lots of results
17:06<JshWright>auzigog: is it just drupal you're running?
17:06<vblank>but 50000 views a day is less than 1 a second, not too busy really
17:06-!-andrew_j_w [~andrew@88-97-29-168.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:06<auzigog>vblank: most of them will be in a 5 hour period
17:06<@irgeek>Smark: Lish sessions run inside screen so it will keep going. Unless the getty on your Linode dies.
17:07<auzigog>JshWright: yeah. it's a moderately complex site. ecommerce and credit card processing included
17:07<Guspaz|m>Linode hosts tend to be pretty low in utilization, so you can usually burst pretty high in CPU. And bandwidth scales linearly at $0.10 per gig whether it's part of your plan or not. And if you're not using the extra storage, it doesn't matter. So the only *real* difference between the different linodes, then, is RAM.
17:07<megatron27__>does Amazon S3 throttle clients
17:07<JshWright>auzigog: if it's just drupal and you don't need any fancy apache features, why not switch out for nginx/lighttpd?
17:08<Guspaz|m>Yeah, that should be your first step. Ditch Apache.
17:08<auzigog>JshWright: because I already spent a week setting up the server and I'm not familiar with nginx/lighttpd enough to administrate them effectively. although i guess that's still an option/
17:09<Guspaz|m>Tuning Apache for high load is an art in itself. Tuning lighttpd for high load is simple.
17:10<Guspaz|m>IIRC for Lighttpd you'd just need to give it a few more PHP processes, and turn up the maximum number of simultaneous connections?
17:11<Smark>and we're off and running copying disk images
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17:14<chris>I considered toying with lighttpd but I was not immediately aware of whether I'd miss some apache modules
17:14<vblank>nobody ever got fired for installing apache
17:15<BarkerJr>I've read reviews that lighttpd is not stable and has ram leaks
17:15<Guspaz|m>vblank: Yeah, but they do get fired for the mission-critical box OOMing
17:15<Guspaz|m>I haven't noticed any RAM leaks or stability issues with lighttpd.
17:15-!-mw44118 [~matt@207.58.233.141] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:15<BarkerJr>the reviews was 2 years old
17:15<BarkerJr>maybe they fixed it
17:16<@mikegrb>lolz
17:16<vblank>apache & mission critical? Lol
17:16<vblank>anything mission critical isn't going down because one apache server crashes
17:17<Guspaz|m>Not if your budget is apparently low enough that you need to run it all off a $30/mth VPS.
17:17<BarkerJr>then your mission isn't critical :)
17:17<vblank>exactly
17:17<Guspaz|m>It might be to you.
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17:19<BarkerJr>are you really having problems with apache using too much memory? I run apache on my 360's and they have about 130MB free ram still
17:20<Guspaz|m>By default, when Apache is faced with a large number of clients, it spawns a large number of processes, consuming massive quantities of RAM. It's possible to tweak this, certainly, although Apache is never going to use as little RAM as lighttpd or nginx.
17:21<BarkerJr>ah, I don't have that many hits :)
17:22<vblank>If you're getting so many hits and running out of RAM you should consider getting more RAM.
17:22<Guspaz|m>Or, you know, use a server that doesn't consume massive quantities of RAM?
17:22<Guspaz|m>Throwing RAM at bad software is a poor solution.
17:23<BarkerJr>well then I guess you know what you gotta do
17:23<BarkerJr>:)
17:23<megatron27__>just use a CDN or SE
17:23<vblank>ram fixes everything.
17:23<megatron27__>s3*
17:23<Guspaz|m>S3 is crazy expensive.
17:23-!-azaghal_ [~azaghal@212.178.230.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:23<Guspaz|m>There are much cheaper CDNs around.
17:23<leaf>simplecdn.com is what i use
17:24<Guspaz|m>Was going to say. SimpleCDN is 3.9 cents per gig.
17:24<leaf>i host my albums there and ive only paid 8 bucks so far
17:25<Pryon>give us URL and we'll take care of that for you
17:25-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@genkt-048-079.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:25<leaf>haha
17:26<Guspaz|m>Keep in mind that Linode is still just $0.10/GB. That's not as cheap as SimpleCDN at $0.039/GB, but if you're not even using up your existing Linode allotment, then it's money wasted.
17:26<Guspaz|m>$8 is 205GB at SimpleCDN, and the cheapest Linode has 200GB/mth included.
17:27<megatron27__>nice @ simplecdn
17:27-!-Internat [~nf@123-243-184-161.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #linode
17:27<Guspaz|m>I wouldn't even bother looking at a CDN unless you're going over your Linode cap.
17:27<leaf>i use simplecdn not for the bandwidth cost, but im a musician and i want everyone around the world to be able to grab my albums at their max sopeed
17:28<leaf>speed
17:28-!-naarrp [~naarrp@modemcable129.7-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #linode
17:28<megatron27__>ewww - http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9l5ui/i_am_the_offspring_of_siblings_ask_me_anything/
17:29<megatron27__>but I like that subreddit
17:29<niner>Heh. I've gotten a few downvotes on my post from earlier today to that subreddit.
17:30<erikh>bring on the downvote
17:30<erikh>s
17:30<Guspaz|m>I liked the comment "BILLY MAYS HERE WITH OXICLEAN -- Yo Billy Mays, I'm really happy for you, im'a let you finish, but the slapchop is one of the best infomercial products of all time!"
17:30<aaronpk>why isn't udev creating /dev/md0 on boot?
17:30-!-NotInternat [~nf@123-243-184-161.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:30<aaronpk>(not on a linode server)
17:30<straterra>aaronpk: you need an initrd
17:31<megatron27__>I prefer the a Patrick Swayze one "Yo patrick, I'll let you finish, but MJ had one of the best deaths of all time"
17:31<niner>no Road House 3, I guess.
17:31<erikh>billy mays died early so he could get his coffin at the low, low price of $19.95!
17:31<niner>..... too soon?
17:31<Smark>http://quaoar.ww7.be/ms_fud_of_the_year/569458-microsoft-attack-linux-retail-level-probably.html
17:31<Smark>lols
17:32<aaronpk>straterra: one of my servers works fine and has no init.d script, the newer one can't figure out this RAID stuff for the life of it.
17:32<megatron27__>I might as well go to work early since I'm up.
17:32<BarkerJr>aaronpk, centos?
17:32<aaronpk>fedora 7 and 11
17:33<aaronpk>11 is the one with problems
17:33-!-azaghal_ [~azaghal@91.148.112.58] has joined #linode
17:34<BarkerJr>check in /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit and make sure start_udev is not commented
17:34<aaronpk>it's there. i remember seeing "staring udev" on the boot screen
17:34-!-Redgore [~redgore@94-193-27-221.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Peace and Protection 4.22.2]
17:35<aaronpk>it's like it doesn't know about raid when udev starts?
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17:40<aaronpk>hmm... `cat /proc/mdstat` doesn't show any raid personalities, could it be that the raid driver isn't loaded when udev starts so it doesn't know to make the device?
17:43-!-Twayne [~waynemilt@cpe-071-070-201-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
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17:52<Smark>I heard someone say that Linode backup was in a free beta atm... that true or did I misunderstand?
17:54<vuf>it's true
17:54<mwalling>!f backups
17:54<linbot>mwalling: We don't offer backups yet, but we're working on it. So, for now backups are your responsibility. You are protected against a hard drive failure on the host, as we utilize hardware RAID mirroring across two drives. However, this is not a substitute for proper backups. If you have enough unallocated disk space on your account you can duplicate your disk images in the Linode Manager. It's also simple to (1 more message)
17:54<mwalling>hrm
17:54<mwalling>tis broke
17:54<CaptObviousman>I think you're broke
17:54<vuf>!backup
17:54<linbot>Backups are in free beta in certain DCs (including newark). See http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4067 for details.
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17:55<Smark>so its only available if you're in newark?
17:56<BarkerJr>no, it's elsewhere, too
17:56<Smark>where do I sign (up)
17:56<Smark>ticket time looks like
17:56<BarkerJr>yep
17:57<mwalling>ticket time
17:57<mwalling>and its more then newark afaik
17:58<aaronpk>so i'm pretty sure the problem is that the raid kernel module isn't being loaded on boot, causing udev to not create /dev/md0. how can i get the raid5 module loaded on boot?
17:58<aaronpk>(before udev starts)
17:59<vuf>aaronpk: initrd
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18:02<aaronpk>well now the raid5 module loads on boot, but it's still not creating /dev/md0 >:(
18:04-!-ninevolt [~niner@66-193-21-130.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<vuf>how about "mdadm --detail --scan" ?
18:07<aaronpk>it just doesn't print anything
18:08<vuf>it used to work?
18:08<aaronpk>i built the arrays on this computer
18:09<Smark>there a linode backup channel or no?
18:09<aaronpk>i may not have rebooted the computer until now though
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18:12<Smark>is the backup service even still running? latest posts in the the thread show its down, but they're 2 months old
18:14<mwalling>its not for backing up, its for breaking the system now so it doesnt break when its "supported"
18:14-!-JoeK [~JoeK@host-66-246-75-8.static.makaiwell.com] has quit [Quit: O_O.]
18:15<Smark>i as never planning on using it as my only backup source... I wanted to play around with it see if its something I'm going to subscribe to when it goes into production
18:15<Smark>s/as/was/
18:15<Smark>and Mr. dfinnerty set me up!
18:16-!-Turl [~emilio@host32.190-138-132.telecom.net.ar] has joined #linode
18:20<aaronpk>vuf: when i run `mdadm -Q /dev/sdi1` (one of the drives in an array) it says "/dev/sdi1: device 2 in 4 device undetected raid5 /dev/.tmp.md1.". the next time i run it it says /dev/md1, and alternates back and forth each time i run it. wtf?
18:21<vuf>aaronpk: once you get it assembled, doing "mdadm --detail --scan >/etc/mdadm.conf" should help you keep it across reboots
18:21<aaronpk>i will do that as soon as i get it assembled...
18:22<aaronpk>something just created /dev/md1 now, but i still can't assemble
18:23-!-hpj [~hpj@147.89-10-30.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:25<vuf>aaronpk: if you know the drives in the array, assembling by hand should be easy, no?
18:26<aaronpk>i have the list of devices in /etc/mdadm.conf
18:27<aaronpk>huh..don't know why i didn't think of doing that before .....
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18:28<aaronpk>ok, now testing a reboot
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18:32<aaronpk>much better
18:32<linbot>New news from forums: Thoughts from a first time user in Backup Service Beta <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4636>
18:33<aaronpk>now i have to figure out how to get LVM to start up before mdadm tries to start the array
18:35<vuf>aaronpk: so how did you fix the mdadm?
18:35<aaronpk>assembled the two arrays manually because i knew the devices in each, then ran mdadm --detail --scan > /etc/mdadm.conf
18:36<aaronpk>unfortunately one of my devices is an LVM volume and it's missing from the fresh-booted array
18:36<vuf>you want LVM *before* md?
18:36<aaronpk>i have a 250gb and 750gb drive combined into 1tb using LVM, that 1tb volume is a device in the array
18:37-!-Guest2794 is now known as dcraig
18:38<vuf>oh so you use lvm for raid0
18:38<aaronpk>raid5 actually
18:38-!-dcraig is now known as Guest2800
18:39<vuf>250+750 => 1000 is raid0
18:39<aaronpk>no, 250+750 using lvm is combined with 3 actual 1tb drives to form a raid5 array
18:39<vuf>right
18:40<vuf>anyway, I have no idea how to change the order of assembly
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18:45<Guspaz|m>raid-0 requires like-sized drives.
18:45<vuf>I meant linear when I said raid0 ... time for bed :)
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18:56<linbot>New news from forums: CentOS 5.3 Image in Feature Request/Bug Report <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4637>
18:57-!-mike_k [~mike@57-16-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59<Smark>Linode billing is what time zone? EST?
19:00<HoopyCat>the most inconvenient one possible at any given moment
19:00<Smark>Australia?
19:00<mwalling>Smark: prevaling eastern time
19:00-!-EricMartens [~EricMarte@c-71-237-86-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:00<Smark>(need to know what time to remove my old linode from my account before I'm billed for another day)
19:00-!-Turl [~emilio@host32.190-138-132.telecom.net.ar] has joined #linode
19:01<mwalling>Smark: right now its 7:01 PM
19:01<Smark>5 hours then, hopefully that'll be enough to finish this transfer
19:02<HoopyCat>Smark: i've wondered that myself a bit, actually. a logical assumption would, indeed, be midnight EST/EDT
19:03<Smark>because even if my old linode is still on my account at 12:00am I get billed
19:04-!-silverblade [~silverbla@cust116-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:04<aaronpk>yea but only for a day cause it's all prorated
19:04-!-paulohonte [~bd44a41a@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
19:05<paulohonte>HI, I made my registration of the linode on last Monday
19:05<HoopyCat>paulohonte: welcome!
19:06<paulohonte>I'm with a problem.
19:06<Smark>and whats that?
19:06<paulohonte>-- Your account is currently pending activation --
19:07<paulohonte>what do I need to do?
19:07<Smark>were you ever able to successfully log in to your account?
19:08<Smark>jed, pparadis, or caker should be able to help you out if you're always been pending activation.
19:08<bliblok>paulohonte: Checked your email lately, including spamfolders?
19:09<Smark>s/you're/you've/
19:09<paulohonte>I didn't receive any email .. :(
19:10-!-Twayne [~waynemilt@cpe-071-070-201-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:11<Smark>what would be the correct robots.txt file if I wanted to disable all spidering of a specific domain?
19:11<linbot>New news from forums: Network statistics from a firewall? in Linux Networking <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4638>
19:11<HoopyCat>Smark: http://www.robotstxt.org/robotstxt.html
19:12<HoopyCat>paulohonte: haven't seen anyone on staff here in a couple hours, but someone is bound to turn up eventually
19:14<Smark>thanks HoopyCat
19:15<paulohonte>I thought that the activation process was faster.
19:15<HoopyCat>paulohonte: it usually is; i suspect the e-mail address on file might not be precisely correct
19:16<Smark>ahh, good idea HoopyCat... paulohonte, are you 100% sure you correctly typed your email address?
19:17<paulohonte>yes, but as I can check this?
19:17<Smark>it possible to see the size of /dev/xvdc? IE Used/free?
19:17-!-A-KO^ [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #linode
19:17<Smark>without mounting that is
19:19<orudie>what is the law in NY for selling cigarrettes without a license ?
19:19<orudie>can you go to jail for that ?
19:20<HoopyCat>paulohonte: comparing notes with someone at linode would be the best way, i figure. they probably sent you an e-mail asking for further information, but it might have bounced or something. impossible to know for sure.
19:20<HoopyCat>Smark: fsck might tell you something... hmm
19:20<HoopyCat>orudie: http://www.health.state.ny.us/prevention/tobacco_control/tobguide.htm
19:20-!-techman224 [techman224@wnpgmb1316w-ds01-226-237.dynamic.mts.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:21<@jed>I can almost guarantee the e-mail bounced, because if a signup is held an e-mail automatically goes out
19:21-!-A-KO [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:21-!-A-KO^ is now known as A-KO
19:21<@jed>and we had e-mail issues today
19:21-!-techman224 [techman224@wnpgmb1316w-ds01-226-237.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #linode
19:21<@jed>paulohonte: I see your signup, wait one
19:22<@jed>yes, it looks like you typoed your e-mail
19:24<@jed>paulohonte: you has message
19:26<paulohonte>:(
19:26<@jed>paulohonte: check your private messages
19:26<@jed>here
19:29<@jed>actually, you know what, don't worry about it -- I activated your account
19:29<@jed>fraudulent folk don't get on IRC and ask
19:29<Yaakov>DON'T CHECK YOUR MESSAGES
19:29<Yaakov>BECAUSE IT IS NOW REDUNDANT
19:30*encode remembers that
19:30<encode>in case of fraud, get on irc and ask
19:31<Yaakov>JED YOU ARE MY FAVORITE AMBASSADOR OF MODERN LITHUANIAN DANCE
19:31<@jed>paulohonte: you're activated, go ahead and log in
19:32<encode>Yaakov: you are the most amusingly annoying user of capslock
19:32<Yaakov>encode: Thank you.
19:32<chesty>WHAT'S THIS CAPSLOCK YOU TALK OF?
19:33<Yaakov>For the record I do not use caps lock. Each message is lovingly handcrafted with my pinky.
19:33<encode>hehe
19:33<encode>s/capslock/all caps/
19:33<paulohonte>hummmm
19:33<@jed>paulohonte: you're activated, go ahead and login
19:33<paulohonte>EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
19:33<paulohonte>:D
19:34<@jed>I'd recommend fixing your e-mail when you get in
19:34<paulohonte>yes..
19:34<paulohonte>thanks...
19:34-!-Mathew [~Mathew@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust346.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:35<paulohonte>my email was incorrect!!!
19:35<paulohonte>:(
19:35<BarkerJr>:(
19:38-!-Guest2800 is now known as dcraig
19:39-!-dcraig is now known as Guest2804
19:41-!-Keith-BlindUser [~BOFHIRC@c-75-71-149-116.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #linode
19:41<BarkerJr>hi Keith!
19:44-!-JoeK [~JoeK@host-66-246-75-8.static.makaiwell.com] has joined #linode
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19:55<chris>Were all the old UML hosts moved to Xen, or do we still need to intiate a transfer over?
19:55<chris>I reboot so infrequently that I haven't checked
19:55<bliblok>You still need to request it.
19:57<chris>hmm, been on uml since feb04. I don't really feel like rocking the boat
19:59<BarkerJr>is uml bad?
20:00<straterra>Eh..no real reason to run it over XEN
20:01<Yaakov>Unified Markup Language is the bomb.
20:01<straterra>You know what else is the bomb? Spending a week writing software..and having the people who told you to write it say they need it done a different way
20:01<encode>straterra: welcome to the real world
20:01<encode>that happens so many times
20:01<chesty>money in the bank
20:01<straterra>Real world my ass
20:02<BarkerJr>that's why you need to show it to them every day
20:02<straterra>uh..
20:02<BarkerJr>every hour
20:02<chesty>get everything in writing
20:02<straterra>They had different builds every day..then discovered an issue in their logic..
20:02<straterra>All because they didn't do any research/discovery before assigning the task
20:02<encode>well in my experience, anything you deliver will need to be changed, because people will invariably think of something later that's "vital"
20:03<straterra>It's not an addition..its a complete rewrite thats needed
20:06<BarkerJr>well shame on you for not thinking of it last week
20:06<mwalling>chris: you dont have to move yet
20:07<mwalling>chris: if you wanted to rock the boat (and get moar cores), open a ticket
20:07<chris>From a slave system perspective, besides more cores is there much of a benefit?
20:08-!-supine [~marty@office.rbery.bulletproof.net] has joined #linode
20:09<straterra>slave system?
20:09<@mikegrb>lolz
20:09<BarkerJr>lol
20:09<chris>or host / child, whatever the terminology the kids use for virtual hosts is now
20:10<mwalling>straterra: dont get ideas
20:10<mwalling>chris: its smarter about IO i think
20:10<mwalling>combined with the cores, it makes it faster
20:10<straterra>mwalling: I didn't know Linode was providing gimps..
20:10<mwalling>straterra: down boy
20:11<straterra>I got all excited over nothin
20:12<paulohonte>bye, thanks for all...
20:13<BarkerJr>np, cya, have fun
20:15<straterra>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im0K7t9Ilg8
20:15<straterra>FEAR
20:17<BarkerJr>that is hot and sexy
20:18<mwalling>FEAR? FEAR your CHICK CAR?
20:18<straterra>If my car had THAT motor..you'd fear
20:18<straterra>YOU'D CRY
20:18<mwalling>i cant watch it
20:18<mwalling>at work
20:19<mwalling>work blockes youtube
20:19<straterra>Its SFW
20:19<straterra>Tunnel around that shit..and why are you at work at 8:20?
20:19<BarkerJr>basely
20:19<mwalling>trying to release
20:19<straterra>That sounds like a personal problem
20:19<BarkerJr>tmi
20:26-!-arooni-mobile [~arooni-mo@97-113-56-216.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #linode
20:35-!-Guest2804 is now known as dcraig
20:38-!-chirs [~chirs@C-59-101-159-94.mel.connect.net.au] has joined #linode
20:39<chirs>Is there awhy in centos to limit a size of a folder eg: /etc/svn/reponame to 100mb?
20:40<laser`>No
20:40<linbot>New news from forums: apache, nginx reverse proxy and zenphoto in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4639>
20:40<laser`>Well, kind of
20:40<laser`>If you put it on its own partition you can limit the size of that
20:40<mwalling>chris: you could cron some hate mail
20:40<laser`>Or if it's all owned by one user, you can use quotas or something
20:40<laser`>But I don't think it'st hat straight forward
20:41<chirs>hmm okay i need to find the best woraround as i am going to host a number of svn's for some people and i only want them to use 100mb.
20:42<mwalling>could you use a precommit hook?
20:42<mwalling>precommit checks repo size (cached value), postcommit hook updates that cache with the addition of that commit
20:42<laser`>The problem with SVN repos is that they don't really decrease in size
20:42<laser`>So once they've reached 100 MBs, that's it
20:43<mwalling>down side would be that if someone had 99MB, and then checked in 4 dvd isos, you're f'd
20:44<meff>heya i have a quick question.. a friend of mine in russia, normally pulling 100-150kB/s from USA, is getting speeds like 4kB-6kB/s from dallas154..
20:44<mwalling>!downloads
20:44<mwalling>!download
20:44<linbot>http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2636
20:46<meff>hrm
20:46<meff>how does that apply?
20:47<chesty>!mtr
20:47<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ or http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/ for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark or dallas.
20:47<meff>aite.
20:48<chirs>ummm ture unless i make a script that reads the size of the repo folder and do a "if repo folder >= 100mb remove users wrtie premission" and have a cron run every 1hour or something
20:49-!-Bohemian [~Bohemian@32.149.35.241] has joined #linode
20:49<BarkerJr>every minute!
20:49-!-Bohemian [~Bohemian@32.149.35.241] has left #linode []
20:49<chirs>Then that would put a lot of load on the server no?
20:50<BarkerJr>nah, linux will cache the directory
20:50<mwalling>could do that in the commit hooks to though, couldnt you?
20:50<mwalling>and no, i dont think running du would be that bad
20:50<chirs>du?
20:51<mwalling>du(1)
20:51<BarkerJr>du -hs /
20:51<mwalling>DESCRIPTION Summarize disk usage of each FILE, recursively for directories.
20:53<chirs>oh i was going to make a php script and then get the system to wget the file.
20:53-!-jcn [~jcn@rrcs-208-105-67-138.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56<BarkerJr>if [ `du -sb / | awk {'print $1'}` -gt 1024 ]; then echo 'Hai!'; fi
20:57-!-linville [~linville@sapphire.tuxdriver.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:57<BarkerJr>no need to fire up the php interpriter
21:00-!-CompWizdr [compwiz@d24-57-202-59.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
21:01-!-chirs [~chirs@C-59-101-159-94.mel.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:04<BarkerJr>awe man, all that typing and he times out
21:06-!-laser` [~laser@82-47-177-232.cable.ubr02.donc.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:08-!-CompWizrd [compwiz@d24-57-202-59.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:09-!-Turl [~emilio@host32.190-138-132.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:13-!-auzigog [~Administr@c-24-20-114-31.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:48<mwalling>straterra: i'm still at work :P
21:50-!-_banana [~banana@cpe-71-74-231-90.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: _banana]
21:51<straterra>mwalling: why
21:51<mwalling>trying to release
21:53<straterra>oh..while you were at work, I built another engine :P
21:53<mwalling>for your vchick car?
21:54-!-Smark[Gone] [Smark@student5865.student.nau.edu] has joined #linode
21:54<straterra>oh yes
21:54<straterra>1 cyl
21:54<Smark[Gone]>dallas having trouble?
21:54<Smark[Gone]>my linode is unreachable
21:55<Smark[Gone]>!mtr-fremont spectralcoding.com
21:55<mwalling>!mtr-newark dallas150.linode.com
21:55<linbot>Smark[Gone]: [mtr] spectralcoding.com: 8 hops, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms (These results brought to you by urmom and the number 42)
21:55<linbot>mwalling: [mtr] dallas150.linode.com: 11 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 39.9ms
21:55-!-SDjernes [~shawn@68-113-182-251.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has joined #linode
21:55<Smark[Gone]>!mtr-fremont dallas187.linode.com
21:55<linbot>Smark[Gone]: [mtr] dallas187.linode.com: 8 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 42.1ms (These results brought to you by urmom and the number 42)
21:55<Smark[Gone]>so, where to from here?
21:55<mwalling>!lish
21:55<linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log into the LPM. Lish's primary function is to allow you access to your server's console, even if networking is disabled. http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Lish_Documentation
21:56<@tasaro>we're working on dallas187, update in the forum shortly
21:56<mwalling>oh
21:56<mwalling>or that
21:56*hercynium hugs his linode
21:56<Smark[Gone]>ah ok, thanks tasaro, thought it was my server.
21:56<hercynium>that is all
21:56<Smark[Gone]>er, just my linode
21:56-!-Smark [~Smark@spectralcoding.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:56<Smark[Gone]>woo, linode is booting
21:58<Smark[Gone]>Job Entered 01/03/1974 10:00:00 PM <-- bug in the LPM
21:59<mwalling>no
21:59<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: dallas187 in System and Network Status <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4640>
21:59<@tasaro>^ no, it's done that way to make sure it happens before anything you may have placed in there
21:59-!-Guspaz [~gus@206-248-152-203.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:59<Smark[Gone]>ah, ok
22:00<Smark[Gone]>hmm, my Linode does not appear to be booting even though the restart job was issue ~6min ago.
22:01<Smark[Gone]>nevermind, right after i hit enter it started
22:02-!-Smark605 [~Smark@spectralcoding.com] has joined #linode
22:02-!-Smark605 is now known as Smark
22:02-!-Smark[Gone] [Smark@student5865.student.nau.edu] has quit []
22:02<mwalling>Smark[Gone]: realize, there's n other linodes booting at the same time as you (well, staggered boot jobs, but point stands)
22:02<mwalling>where n is the number of other linodes on th ehost
22:02<Smark>ah, they're staggered
22:06<Lucent>dallas186 has still dodged the problems
22:06<Lucent>we keep a clean house on 186
22:06*mwalling snickers
22:06*mwalling gets someone to knock the mains out of 186...
22:06-!-bob2 [rob@crumbs.ertius.org] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:09<Smark>Two hours until its midnight EST, correct?
22:10<BP{k}>no.
22:10<BP{k}>1 hour and 50 minutes.
22:10-!-Guspaz [~gus@206-248-152-206.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #linode
22:10-!-hercynium [~hercynium@c-98-216-53-107.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:15<Lucent>how do i insert bytes into a utf8 field in mysql?
22:15<Lucent>\xAA?
22:16<mwalling>maybe i should go home
22:16<mwalling>or i could stay here till tomorrow
22:17<amitz>stay
22:17<mwalling>amitz: i'm still at the office
22:17<BP{k}>mwalling: crawl up under the desk ;)
22:17<amitz>oh, go home :-)
22:18<amitz>I thought you're somewhere else and I thought "why not seek variety by sleeping somewhere else you rarely sleep in" :-p
22:19<amitz>takes too long to go/return from/to the office?
22:20-!-Andrew [~Andrew@c122-107-157-203.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linode
22:20<mwalling>no
22:21<amitz>hmm my linode's bandwidth is fluctuating. From 10KB/s to 500KB/s
22:21<mwalling>5 minutes by car, 15 by biike
22:22<amitz>That's close unlike some stories I heard, something like 1 to 2 hours and it's like in different city.
22:23<Smark>amitz, my old Linode's bandwidth has been running at 9M/s for the past ~6 hours.
22:23<amitz>mine is done, 9 minutes 7 seconds, averaging WTF 15.4K/s ?
22:24<Smark>you wgetting from a slow server?
22:24<amitz>100%[======================================>] 96,449,656 15.4K/s in 9m 7s
22:24<@caker>mmmmmmmmm ttttttttt rrrrrrrrr
22:24<amitz>hmm.. probably. I'm so used to bottleneck in my side that I forget that the bottleneck may be on their side :-p
22:24<Smark>its probably one of those south african servers, that are slower than homing pidgeons.
22:25<mwalling>uuuuuuuurrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmoooooooooooommmmmmmmmmm
22:25<amitz>the number doesn't add up..
22:25<mwalling>!hezbz
22:25<linbot>mwalling: Lb zbzzn'f fb sng, rira Ivfgn zbirf snfgre guna ure (828:0/4) [zhebz]
22:25<Smark>^--- words of wisdom
22:26<Smark>i also noticed that the "dd if=/dev/xvdb | cat" downloads unused space also.
22:26<Smark>which is somewhat annoying
22:26<mwalling>yes...
22:26<mwalling>also, thats useless useage of cat
22:27*Smark points at http://library.linode.com/linode-manager/ssh-disk-copy
22:27<Smark>caker, you guys ever figure out what happened to dallas187?
22:29<Deathvalley122>can someone help me set up my second ip for my vps?
22:29-!-Lucent [~lucent@c-71-199-199-151.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:30-!-arooni-mobile [~arooni-mo@97-113-56-216.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:30-!-bob2 [rob@crumbs.ertius.org] has joined #linode
22:32<mwalling>Deathvalley122: did you follow the documentation?
22:32<@pparadis>Deathvalley122: http://library.linode.com/networking/configuring-static-ip-interfaces
22:40<Deathvalley122>mwalling: I am not very good setting stuff up like that ...
22:40<@mikegrb>lolz
22:40<Deathvalley122>lol
22:40<chesty>i'll do it for you for $300, or you can have a go
22:41<@mikegrb>lolz
22:41<Deathvalley122>lol
22:41<Deathvalley122>that's if I had $300
22:41<chesty>sell your linode for cash
22:42<chesty>!urmom gas
22:42<linbot>chesty: Yo momma's so stupid she sold her car for gas money! (768:1/3) [rmuom]
22:42<MJCS>anyone know anything about mental ray?
22:42<amitz>help me setup X11 forwarding, for $100!
22:42<chesty>ssh -X
22:42<mwalling>amitz: -Y
22:42<mwalling>!n
22:42<linbot>Another satisfied customer. NEXT!
22:42<amitz>note I do not specify the dollar type :-p
22:43<chesty>I'll take $100 in any currency
22:43<Smark>"I'll take a hundred dollars in any currency"
22:43*amitz googles while sweating
22:43<Smark>did you just say that?
22:44<chesty>yes, send them in
22:44<amitz>phew, yeah, zimbabwe use dollar :-D
22:44*pparadis hands chesty 100 obamabux
22:44<chesty>zimbabwe doesn't have $100 i don't think
22:45<chesty>amitz: what's the smallest zimbabwe note?
22:45<amitz>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar
22:45<MJCS>so nobody familiar with maya mental ray?
22:46<amitz>well, I'll give you more but then you owe me :-)
22:46<chesty>no, I'll only accept $100
22:48<amitz>you're being unreasonable! I'll see you in court :-p
22:49<chesty>they might have a $25 coin, you could send me 4 of those
22:49*amitz wonders how many people sue because they feel some people/corporation in power step on them.
22:50-!-blognewb [~User82934@70.134.69.167] has joined #linode
22:51<amitz>chesty: you pay for the postage using a delivery service of my choice.
22:51<chesty>um, no.
22:52<amitz>uh, amitz cancel the incorporation of APS.
22:54<amitz>heh, it seems my ISP throttles beyond previously agreed rate and now they offer an option to unthrottle for a very high price.
22:57<pwnguin>MJCS: actually, ive been looking at renderman
22:57<amitz>damn, I should apply for a new service ASAP before competitors increase prices.
22:57<pwnguin>MJCS: but if we cant get educational licensing, we'll have to look at mental ray
22:59-!-jcn [~jcn@rrcs-208-105-67-138.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #linode
23:03<naarrp>what do you need to know about ray?
23:04<naarrp>MJCS: ah, I guess you went.
23:04-!-_banana [~banana@cpe-71-74-231-90.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
23:07-!-niner [~bill@monolith.nanorift.net] has quit [Quit: bah, sleep]
23:08-!-ALiveGeek [~189a954b@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
23:10<ALiveGeek>Is anyone available to answer a few pre-sales questions?
23:11<Pryon>Give it a shot
23:12<ALiveGeek>Im looking for new hosting for my public webbased proxy servers, I looked through the faq and found nothing specific to proxys but I wanted to make sure it was ok before i purchased
23:12-!-chris1 [~chris@C-59-101-159-94.mel.connect.net.au] has joined #linode
23:13<Pryon>If it's not illegal and doesn't interfere with other users, then it's okay.
23:14<ALiveGeek>I see, it was this "Any act relating to the circumvention of security measures." i was concerned about, as alot of my traffic is from school kids getting passed webfitlers
23:16<Pryon>You'd have to get clarification from linode on that. The ops in this channel are linode staff.
23:16<ALiveGeek>Ofcourse, thank you
23:16<Pryon>You might get a faster/more official response via email, though, as it's late in NJ.
23:16<ALiveGeek>I think I will. Have a good night !
23:16<Pryon>thanks. You too.
23:16-!-ALiveGeek [~189a954b@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:16<chris1>Whats the best why to go about emails like me@mydomain.com
23:16<Pryon>set up a mail server and create an MX record pointing to your linode
23:16<Pryon>(IMHO)
23:16<Pryon>Others will suggest using gmail
23:17<chesty>google apps
23:17<@pparadis>chris1: http://library.linode.com/email-guides/
23:17<jtsage>chris1- depends on what you really want. plenty of options to do in on the linode, google apps is also an option (which i use for mine - i only really need a forwarder, so it works well)
23:18<chris1>All i want to have the email for is like sales support for my site.
23:19<chesty>the trouble with hosting your own email is dealing with spam uses a lot of memory and IO
23:19<bob2>and sanity
23:20<chris1>is google apps free?
23:20<Andrew>nope chris1
23:20<@pparadis>standard edition
23:20<Andrew>I actually checked that 20mins ago
23:20<Andrew>wait.. its free
23:21<@pparadis>yah
23:21<Andrew>I thought you mean gmail corporate
23:21<@pparadis>but honestly, setting up your own mail server isn't difficult.
23:21<chris1>Ye but as pointed out spam could become a issue.
23:22<@pparadis>if you install citadel you can turn on spamassasin easily
23:22<@pparadis>whatever works for you
23:22-!-sackler [~none@c-76-123-180-170.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #linode
23:22<@pparadis>google apps is fine for many users
23:22<sackler>self serve resize \o/
23:22<@pparadis>:)
23:23<chris1>I mite start off the google apps and if i need more control later on i can move over to my server.
23:23<@pparadis>sure
23:25<chris1>As i see on linodes page that debian is used a lot and centos is not. whats the big diffrents from them? like does one use less ram and space or??
23:25<Andrew>Centos is basically redhat enterprise
23:25<Andrew>so it uses RPM's
23:25<sackler>debian has excellent package management
23:25<@pparadis>major differences include package management, filesystem layouts, freshness of packages, etc
23:25<Andrew>But so does redhat..
23:25<@pparadis>that's highly debatable
23:26<supine>rpm is a package mismanager
23:26<@pparadis>as someone who's been using both for ten years, i can't really recommend centos for any deployment where RHEL isn't already being used.
23:26<bob2>debian has debian policy
23:26<bob2>rpm vs dpkg is a bit silly
23:26-!-blognewb [~User82934@70.134.69.167] has quit [Quit: REBOOT]
23:26<chris1>okay so they used about the same drive space and ram on a bare-bone install?
23:27<@pparadis>it comes down to what you're most comfortable with, and what will best support your use cas4.
23:27<Andrew>it has more to do what you choose to do with it anyway..
23:27<@pparadis>case, even
23:27<chesty>more people in this channel use ubuntu which means you'll get better help if you choose ubuntu
23:27<Andrew>someone said that when choosing a distro, just choose the one your gf/mates use, so you can get support easier
23:27<@pparadis>yeah, most of our deployments are debian or ubuntu.
23:28<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
23:28<Andrew>Slackware is also REALLY manageable, great for beginners
23:28<@pparadis>interesting stats --> http://www.linode.com/about/index.cfm
23:28<@pparadis>Andrew is going to hell for saying that
23:28<Andrew>I'm surprised Ubuntu is more common then debian
23:28<Andrew>..
23:28<Andrew>Meh, so what else is new
23:29<Andrew>slackware isn't even on the list..
23:29<@pparadis>the stats are a bit dated, i wouldn't be surprised if debian and ubuntu swapped places every now and again
23:29<@pparadis>Andrew: our ten Slackware users would be highly offended by that comment ;)
23:29*jtsage changes his mailing address to a PO box in antartica to see the country list increment. (probably anyway)
23:29<Andrew>No.. its not even on the list.. look at the stats you posted.. I think you guys aren't giving slackware a chance to succeed
23:30<@pparadis>there's very few differences between a debian lenny and ubuntu jaunty install, really.
23:30<BP{k}>pparadis: that's a silly statement. There are at least 11 ;)
23:30<Andrew>is that how many linodes you own BP{k} ?
23:30<@pparadis>lolz
23:31<BP{k}>hehe
23:31<chris1>as i want to try something new so if i deploy debian are command all most the same for compling things by hand and not the pakage manager?
23:32<@pparadis>if you mean "./configure && make && make install" then yes
23:32<@pparadis>be sure you "apt-get install build-essential"
23:32-!-SDjernes [~shawn@68-113-182-251.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:32<bob2>remember that everything you compile from source is something that you have to maintain by hand forever
23:32<@pparadis>+1 ^
23:32<bob2>so check carefully if there's a suitable package in debian already
23:32<Andrew>is there any reason you are compiling anything chris1?
23:33<@pparadis>probably rails-related ;)
23:33*pparadis is bitter
23:33<Andrew>Never used rails actually.. but heard very good things
23:34<chris1>Nah php as my system only runs on the latest php5.3 and i like to have the latest lighttpd.
23:34-!-Syrogen [~asdas@adsl1500-127.dyn253.pacific.net.sg] has joined #linode
23:34<bob2>what new backwards incompatible features did php add in 5.3?
23:35<chris>My money is on closures
23:35<bob2>wow, they outinnovated java
23:35<@mikegrb>lolz
23:35<chris1>its some of the things used with in classes i could make it run on 5.2 but i am to lazy to go though the hole code adding like 3 more lines lol
23:35*pparadis sez his money is on sticking with Perl, as it hasn't let him down in fifteen years ;)
23:36-!-A-KO [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:36<bob2>recompiling php everytime there's an issue must suck
23:37<chris1>;) how often does deb update there pakages? is there a site that shows that versions they have?
23:37<chris>packages.debian.org
23:37<SelfishMan>!avail-tp
23:37<@pparadis>httphttp://www.debian.org/distrib/packages
23:37<linbot>SelfishMan: Dallas360 - 55, Dallas540 - 41, Dallas720 - 38, Dallas1080 - 21, Dallas1440 - 15, Dallas2880 - 2, Dallas5760 - 1, Dallas8640 - 1, Dallas11520 - 1, Dallas14400 - 1
23:38<@pparadis>http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages rather
23:38<chris>also, hi bob2. I haven't spoken to you since the bleh days
23:38-!-A-KO [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #linode
23:39<@pparadis>chris1: debian has a history of favoring high stability over package freshness. if you need more recent versions of major packages than they offer, you may wish to try ubuntu instead.
23:40<chris>That seems a bit backwards, unless you're not taking sid into account
23:40<@pparadis>not at all
23:40<@pparadis>Debian "stable" is meant to be just that.
23:40<chris>I mean to say, if he wants bleeding edge with debian he can get it
23:40<@pparadis>yeah, but that's not a great idea for a production server.
23:41<SelfishMan>is 'urmom' no longer a valid promo code?
23:41*pparadis slaps SelfishMan
23:41<@pparadis>!urmom
23:41<linbot>pparadis: Yo momma's so stupid, she keeps clicking the link to http://tjsmom.com/hawt (835:0/0) [umrom]
23:41<@pparadis>huh? that's a _great_ pic!
23:41<SelfishMan>I was going to add a new node but since I was just slapped I say screw you guys I'll take my business elsewhere
23:41-!-litwol|mac [~litwol@cpe-74-73-165-180.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
23:42*pparadis cries
23:42*pparadis hugs SelfishMan
23:43<sackler>hah
23:43<SelfishMan>pparadis: Don't worry, I ordered one anyway
23:43<@pparadis>win
23:43<SelfishMan>EVEN THOUGH I WAS TREATED SO POORLY
23:43<SelfishMan>pparadis: WHY DO YOU LOVE ME WITH YOUR FISTS?
23:43<@pparadis>I HAVE ALMOST AS GREAT A LOVE FOR YOU AS I DO FOR YAAKOV, BUT NOT QUITE
23:44<supine>can you do a de-referral ? where someone has to pay double next month?
23:44*pparadis just got a really disturbing visual involving a fist and SelfishMan
23:44<sackler>linode customer service comes standard with 1 complimentary slap with a large trout
23:44<palintheus>oh God
23:44<sackler>per month
23:45*pparadis makes sure supine pays double next month.
23:45<sackler>if you admit to using windows.
23:45<@pparadis>+5 ^
23:45<supine>pparadis: should balance out the better exchange rate!
23:45<@pparadis>hey, we've got obamabux! america has limitless currency, you'll see!
23:46*supine my name is marty and i used windows once. i have been windows free for 2 months now.
23:46<@pparadis>HI MARTY
23:46*Syrogen wonder anyone signup for linode for months and leave it idle for months too?
23:47<@pparadis>supine: Step 1 --> Admitting that I am powerless over the influence of Microsoft, that my life has become unmanageable.
23:47<supine>actually, i'd like to thank Microsoft for the free windows 7 beta. it allowed me to use the stupid .au tax software inside virtualbox.
23:48<@pparadis>supine: funny you should mention that... it's what i use to do screenshots of windows apps for the library ;)
23:48<@pparadis>THANKS FOR THE FREE OS, MS!
23:48<chris1>why not just use a genuine oem ;)
23:48<@pparadis>negative shipmate
23:48-!-ubuntuisloved [~jason@cpe-74-67-36-120.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:49<supine>chris1: you're presuming that something has been bought with the MS-tax
23:49*pparadis goes to smoke
23:49<@pparadis>and points out that linode uses Macs on the desktop on the way out to have a cig.
23:49<@mikegrb>lolz
23:49<chris1>what i am a Mac user. the only windows i got is one that come with a computer lol
23:51<chris1>whats windows7 like any whys?
23:51-!-JamesCollins [~james@202.134.34.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:51<Andrew>good
23:52<encode>win7 is way better than any other microsoft OS imho
23:52<encode>they've borrowed a lot of nice ideas from OS x
23:53<@mikegrb>lolz
23:53<chris1>LOL OSX 10.6 is nice (using it right now) love the why you plug a printer in and you do not have to install the drivers.
23:53<Andrew>I wouldn't say they borrowed them..
23:54<Andrew>they were pretty standard usability concepts
23:54<Andrew>but 10.6 i reckon is pretty much the same as 10.5
23:54<Andrew>Its what MS would call a service pack
23:55<@pparadis>i agree that with that ^
23:55<@pparadis>i still say 2000/2003 were the best operating systems microsoft ever put out.
23:55<Andrew>the difference is, we will get OpenCL and such for free (because Nvidia will just include them with their drivers).. On OSX you need to pay for it
23:55*pparadis used to be a win32 developer in a long-ago past life
23:56*Andrew never touched MFC in his life.. went straight to GTK/QT
23:56<@pparadis>i'll take my MBP "UNIX with a pretty GUI" any day, and i'm also a fan of ubuntu on the desktop for a lot of use cases.
23:56<Andrew>Used to work at an Applecentre, I switched from OSX :P
23:57<@pparadis>i actually switched to MacOS from Ubuntu on my primary workstations.
23:57<@pparadis>i still run Debian on the server :)
23:58<@pparadis>good old debian doesn't let me down.
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23:59<chris1>I thought OSX was a build off of BSD.
---Logclosed Thu Sep 17 00:00:22 2009