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#linode IRC Logs for 2009-09-22

---Logopened Tue Sep 22 00:00:38 2009
---Daychanged Tue Sep 22 2009
00:00<Smark>anyone know what might cause Mutt to just randomly stop sending a file? I turned on debugging and the log shows it adding the attachment, then it just ends like midway through the attachment
00:01<SelfishMan>Smark: urmom > $maxsize
00:01<Smark>hmm, i dont recall a maxsize variable
00:02-!-Phoenixfire159 [Phoenixfir@kc-la57-ws2008.dorm.duke.edu] has quit []
00:02<Smark>well no, its not Mutt settings, it has to do with crontab
00:03-!-lakin [~lakin@S01060013101832cd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:04-!-lizone [~zenst@user-0ccejib.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:04-!-Mathew [~Mathew@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust346.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:06<neekers>he's not going to help me, is he
00:07-!-zacker_ [~zack@64.71.16.254] has quit [Quit: zacker_]
00:07<bob2>read the error again
00:07<neekers>page not found
00:07<bob2>scroll down
00:08<bob2>read everything on the page
00:09<neekers> 1. ^admin/(.*) The current URL, mwalling/admin/, didn't match any of these. i'll try and add mwalling to that
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00:19<neekers>if use /mwalling/admin/ it does not match because of the leading / and if i do mwalling/admin/ i get a 500 internal error...
00:21-!-blognewb [~User82934@70.134.74.172] has quit [Quit: REBOOT]
00:21<neekers>and if i do mwalling/admin/ and run the internal django webserver, i get no errors...
00:21<neekers>but internal server error with apache
00:22<neekers>i've been struggling with this same problem all day long... :o)
00:30<Smark>is it possible to simulate crontab? IE run a crontab script just as if it were being triggered?
00:31<checkers>you mean with a replica environment?
00:34<Smark>nah, something about crontab is messing up my backup script... The crontab entry was the same on my old Linode, but its not running successfully on this linode
00:34<Smark>it gets a few kb into sending the attachment, then just stops
00:35<Smark>(using mutt)
00:36<Smark>I mean anyone have _ANY_ ideas? the script runs fine if triggered from the CLI, but if its initiated by crontab (/etc/crontab as root) it starts, but doesn't finish successfully.
00:38<SelfishMan>Smark: add '&' to the end of the crontab entry
00:38<Smark>will do
00:38<Smark>5 0 * * * root /root/gmail_backup/backup.daily.sh > /dev/null &
00:38<Smark>right?
00:39-!-atourino [~antonio@190.107.166.30] has joined #linode
00:39<bob2>the /dev/null thing is destroying all your debug info
00:40<palintheus>exactly
00:40<Smark>wheres the output going to be stuffed?
00:40<atourino>that just begs for a urmom joke
00:40<rsdehart>into an email, if run by crontab
00:41<bob2>nowhere, now
00:41*atourino behaves
00:41<palintheus>atourino: tsk, next time make teh joke :)
00:41<SelfishMan>!urmom is stuffed full of debug info
00:41<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's so outta this world she's yo daddy too. (769:0/0) [muomr]
00:41-!-arooni [~arooni___@c-98-232-31-140.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:41*SelfishMan can't resist the bad urmom joke
00:41<Smark>ok, removed the dev null
00:42-!-zacker [~zack@c-98-210-109-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
00:42<Smark>ok, it'll be emailed to root@mydomain?
00:42<bob2>root@localhost
00:44-!-arooni [~arooni___@c-98-232-31-140.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linode
00:44<Smark>im using google apps, its not showing up
00:46*SelfishMan laffs
00:48<SelfishMan>00:42 < bob2> root@localhost
00:48<Smark>so mutt is creating /root/sent with everything in it, but its not being sent.
00:48<Smark>and the script isnt finishing
00:50<bob2>perhaps your local mail system is broken
00:50<bob2>or mutt's smtp settings are wrong
00:50<bob2>etc
00:50<bob2>pastebin your mutt config
00:51-!-atourino [~antonio@190.107.166.30] has quit [Quit: atourino]
00:51-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@118.100.134.152] has joined #linode
00:52<Smark>http://p.linode.com/3001
00:52<megatron27>random question: if you're fluent in two languages or more, do you still think in your mother tongue
00:52<Smark>i dont have a ~/.mutt/ but neither did my old linode IIRC
00:55<SelfishMan>megatron27: s/mother/native/
00:55<Smark>bob2, anything jump out?
00:56<SelfishMan>I say that because the natural language seems to change (for me) depending on the situation
00:57<bob2>Smark: make that dir
00:58<bob2>and show a shell transcipt of a successful run
00:58<checkers>does thinking in different languages (noticably) affect your thinking patterns?
00:58<Smark>bob2, how?
00:58<Smark> -x?
00:58<SelfishMan>checkers: not that I have noticed
00:58<bob2>Smark: show us how you run it from the command line
00:59<Smark>./backup.daily.sh
00:59<bob2>no
00:59<Smark>or the mutt command itself?
00:59<bob2>a) pastebin backup.daily.sh b) pastebin a copy and paste of you logging in and running the script successfully (check the whatever is at gmail)
01:00<Smark>i cant because mut is retarded and spams the console with ~10,000 lines updating the attachment progress.
01:00<Smark>for b) anyway
01:00<checkers>mutt sucks why do you use it
01:01<Smark>better idea?
01:01<bob2>because he/she is backing up their db to gmail
01:01<checkers>what do you mena by "db"?
01:01<Smark>mysql tables
01:01<Smark>and no, im not just emailing the .sql
01:02<checkers>what's in them though?
01:02<checkers>oh, I see
01:02<checkers>you want to send a binary file to gmail
01:02<Smark>well, its a .sql compressed then encrypted using gpg.
01:02<checkers>cat data | base64encode | mail -s "I use a really stupid backup mechanism: `date`" smark@gmail.com ?
01:03<bob2>smark has no working mta
01:03<Smark>indeed
01:03<checkers>install simplemta or something
01:03<checkers>or postfix, and since you use ubuntu/debian, there's a one step setup process for the configuration
01:04<Smark>something about executing from crontab is messing it up. The script works fine, emails are sent and received.
01:05<SelfishMan>Smark: does the user running the cronjob have a valid mutt config?
01:05<Smark>its being run as root, and I've run the command successfully as root, so yes.
01:06<Smark>being run from roots crontab that is
01:06<SelfishMan>does root have a valid mutt config?
01:07<SelfishMan>I mean, 'sudo mutt urmom' may not be the same environment as the crontab
01:07<Smark>I've run the script via the shell as root, so I would assume so, everything works... /root/.muttrc exists
01:07<checkers>how did you get a root shell?
01:07<Smark>just using sudo
01:07<SelfishMan> 01:07 < SelfishMan> I mean, 'sudo mutt urmom' may not be the same environment as the crontab
01:07<checkers>exactly how, I mean
01:08<checkers>or just try again in 'sudo su -'
01:08<Smark>normaluser # sudo root
01:08<Smark>type password
01:08<Smark>root # ./backup.daily.sh
01:08<bob2>'sudo -s -H'
01:08<SelfishMan>Smark: running sudo uses your home, not roots
01:08<bob2>or what checkers said
01:10<Smark>ok, im confused, if I used sudo to change to root, isnt it the same as logging in a root via the physical terminal or ssh?
01:10<checkers>sudo -u root echo $USER
01:10<bob2>no
01:10<Smark>p] sudo -u root echo $USER
01:10<Smark>root
01:10<bob2>'sudo' without -H does not change HOME, so you continue to use the original user's config files etc
01:11<Smark>bob2, but i don't want to do that. The script is running as root in root's crontab.
01:11<checkers>you have a weird modified sudo... are you using freebsd
01:11<Smark>no checkers
01:11<bob2>Smark: you're missing the point
01:11<bob2>Smark: 'sudo su -', then try to run the script. does it work?
01:11<SelfishMan>Smark: You need to use the -H option when using sudo or you will just use /home/urmom as your home instead of switching to /root
01:12<bob2>Smark: currently you're running the script as root, but using your user's config
01:12<bob2>which is not how it will work in root's crontab
01:12<Smark>im sorry, im use su to change to root, not sudo...
01:13<bob2>shell transcript time
01:14<Smark>http://p.linode.com/3002
01:14<Smark>example
01:14<Smark>script just finished successfully.
01:17<checkers>try with the '-' argument to su, as per above
01:18<Smark>http://p.linode.com/3003
01:18<Smark>ran successfully
01:18<bob2>su - root
01:20<Smark>http://p.linode.com/3004
01:20<Smark>successful
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01:22<Smark>out of ideas?
01:23<Smark>because I am, i would say im missing a package, but it runs fine. Something with crontab throws it off.
01:23<Smark>the script runs, initiated mutt, mutt gets killed, then the rest of the script runs.
01:24<checkers>what distro?
01:24<Smark>ubuntu 9.04
01:24<checkers>running from /etc/crontab ?
01:24<Smark>correct
01:24<Smark>5 0 * * * root /root/gmail_backup/backup.daily.sh > /dev/null
01:25<checkers>how long does mutt run for?
01:25<Smark>long enough to send a 23meg email at the most (what I set the limit to)... usually <1min
01:26<checkers>sounds like something is killing it
01:26<checkers>run mutt under strace and see what that output gives
01:27<bob2>strace -o /tmp/asfasdf
01:27<Smark>is that before the mutt command on the same line, or the line above?
01:28<checkers>strace -o output mutt args
01:29<Smark>k
01:30<Smark>(waits for the next minute for the command to run)
01:31*checkers heads off for a late lunch
01:31<Smark>ok, its done... strace is ~3mb
01:32<Smark>what am I looking for?
01:33<bob2>the end, probably
01:33<bob2>put up the last 200 lines
01:33<Smark>sigterm
01:34<Smark>http://p.linode.com/3005
01:34<Smark>hmm, broken pipe
01:36<Smark>is it possible the .sh initiates mutt, then continues the script before mutt finishes? the next few lines of the script delete the attachment source file
01:36-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@118.100.134.152] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
01:36<Smark>is it also possible that something cleans out /tmp/?
01:36-!-dzjepp [~menace2s@adsl-99-25-186-153.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
01:36-!-dzjepp [~menace2s@adsl-99-25-186-153.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
01:37<bob2>no, yes
01:38<bob2>did you pastebin backup.daily.sh?
01:38<Smark>no
01:38<Smark>i can change the folder from /tmp/ and see if that changes anything
01:39*Andrew hopes that Jabber servers aren't tubby
01:39-!-Dash [~Dash@122.167.22.83] has joined #linode
01:39<bob2>pastebin the script
01:41<Smark>first part: http://p.linode.com/3006
01:42<bob2>first part?
01:42<Smark>second part: http://p.linode.com/3007
01:42<Smark>the .daily.sh calls a different script
01:42<bob2>'#
01:42<bob2>DUMPDIR=/tmp/$(< /dev/urandom tr -dc A-Za-z0-9 | head -c10)'
01:42<Smark>what about it?
01:43<bob2>I don't think that does good things
01:43<Smark>just creates a random directory name
01:43-!-dzjepp [~menace2s@adsl-99-25-186-153.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
01:46<Dash>Hi All
01:46<Dash>Am looking for HA MySQL Cluster setup
01:46<Dash>Can I get some help or consulting stuff?
01:46<Smark>anything jumping out bob2?
01:47-!-nb_ [~nb@75.16.232.89] has joined #linode
01:47<nb_>anyone know much about pv_grub?
01:47<nb_>i am getting a kernel panic about attempting to kill init
01:47<nb_>i have kernel-xen package installed
01:47-!-Edgeman [~edgeman@dyn216-8-164-249.ADSL.mnsi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:48<Andrew>whilst trying to kill init?
01:49<nb_>no, while booting
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01:55<Andrew>No idea..
01:59<checkers>Smark: tempfile(1)
01:59<checkers>Smark: but just use /tmp/sqldump-`date`
02:00<checkers>well, `date +%Y%m%d`
02:00<Smark>will do in the future.
02:00-!-elhippo [~elhippo@cpe-70-112-188-172.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:00<Smark>what causes SIGPIPE or BROKEN PIPE?
02:01<pwnguin>im guessing if the sender in a pipe dies
02:01<checkers>either side can die
02:02<Smark> 243.
02:02<Smark> write(2, "Sending message... 0K/16M (0%)"..., 30) = -1 EPIPE (Broken pipe)
02:02<Smark> 244.
02:02<Smark> --- SIGPIPE (Broken pipe) @ 0 (0) ---
02:02<Smark> 245.
02:02<Smark> +++ killed by SIGPIPE +++
02:02<Smark>sorry, didn't mean to copy the numbers.
02:02<pwnguin>SIGPIPE 13 Term Broken pipe: write to pipe with no readers
02:02<Smark>I would assume mutt is piping to the console
02:03<Smark>I would help if there was anything about this problem on the internet anywhere
02:04<pwnguin>man 7 signal ?
02:04<Smark>was talking about mutt dieing randomly... I mean theres no hint anywhere of whats causing it
02:05<Smark>I mean theres no access denied, not found, or anything
02:05-!-Toba [~eastein@c-76-119-166-25.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #linode
02:05<Toba>hey
02:05<pwnguin>thats because it's sigpipe
02:05<Smark>ok, whats causing it to sigpipe?
02:05<pwnguin>the write
02:06<Smark>ok, so the console dies?
02:06<pwnguin>depends on what file id 2 is
02:06<Smark>and mutt tries to write to it, theres no receiver
02:06<Smark>hmm
02:06<Smark>how does one find out?
02:06<pwnguin>well, you can check /proc
02:07<pwnguin>but usually 0 = stdin, 1 = stdout, 2 = stderr
02:08<Smark>how does stderr crash?
02:08<Smark>or stop running
02:08<pwnguin>its just a file
02:08<pwnguin>or apparetnly, a pipe
02:09<Smark>could a mutt reinstall fix this?
02:09<pwnguin>if you check out /proc/{pid}/fd/, there's a list of files
02:10<Smark>it doesnt run long enough for me take a look
02:11<pwnguin>i suppose it could be apparmor/selinux
02:12<Smark>what do those do?
02:12<pwnguin>break stuff
02:12<pwnguin>they basically enforce special policies about who can do what
02:13<Smark>would the policies be different for a crontab initiated script run as root?
02:13<Smark>as opposed to running as root from the CLI
02:16<Smark>wow really, this cant be that hard... what are the differences between running a script as crontab (/etc/crontab entry run as root) versus running as root from the command line. The bottom line is that theres something different about crontab that makes it error.
02:17<pwnguin>depends on how you got a root shell
02:17<Smark>smark # su root
02:17<Smark>(password)
02:18<Smark>root # ./script
02:18<pwnguin>no - ?
02:18<bob2>su - root
02:18<Smark>bob2, it runs either way from the command line
02:18<bob2>plz always use -
02:18<pwnguin>does cron get a login shell?
02:18<Smark>what do you mean?
02:18<pwnguin>-
02:19<Smark>I don't know what that means
02:19<pwnguin>as i understand it, there's two kinds of shells, a login shell and a remote console
02:20<pwnguin>hence .bash_profile and .bashrc
02:20<Smark>I don't know if cron gets a login shell... 5 0 * * * root /root/gmail_backup/backup.daily.sh > /dev/null <-- the /etc/crontab line
02:21<bob2>get rid of the > /dev/null
02:22<Smark>bob2, I don't know where the output gets sent... I have no MTA setup.
02:23<pwnguin>probably /var/log/cron.something
02:23<pwnguin>if that
02:25<Smark>no there
02:25<Smark>not*
02:25-!-arooni-mobile [~arooni-mo@c-98-232-31-140.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linode
02:25<Smark>bob2, what is getting rid of the output redirection going to change?
02:26<pwnguin>broken pipes?
02:26<pwnguin>at the very least, add the &2 or whatever to add in stderr
02:27<Smark>ok, can i reidrect it to an actual, if not i need to figure out where the output is ending up
02:27<Smark>actual file*
02:27<pwnguin>remember, > only redirects stdout unless you use that crazy syntax i never remember
02:28<pwnguin>stderr is where stuff that doesn't matter (like email progress) gets written
02:28<Smark>2>&1
02:28<Smark>?
02:29<pwnguin>dont ask me, i have no idea
02:29<pwnguin>something like that
02:29<pwnguin>i only pretend to know things. i actually know a lot less and rely on computers to make up the difference :
02:29<pwnguin>:P
02:30<Smark>everyone here has been a huge help, even if its not fixed yet. Im betting its something really stupid
02:30<Smark>guess who was right? looks like I was, it looks like its fixed
02:31<Smark>hold
02:31<pwnguin>you reinstalled mutt and fixed it? what is this, gentoo?
02:31<Smark>wow the strace file is getting huge
02:31<Smark>no
02:31<Smark>i added 2>&1 to the end
02:31<Smark>and the log files are getting very big
02:31<pwnguin>yea
02:32<pwnguin>you're getting all the extra writes now
02:32<Smark>strace just hit 100mb =S
02:32<pwnguin>strace -o ftw
02:32<Smark>yeah, the attachment was 12mb
02:32<pwnguin>i meant to stderr
02:33<Smark>so, assuming its fixed... why did this work on my old linode without 2>&1?
02:33<Smark>wow, this thing needs to stop... 200mb
02:33<pwnguin>you can limit what strace captures
02:33<Smark>it stopped at 1967
02:33<Smark>196mb*
02:34<Smark>and it arrived
02:34<Smark>thanks a ton pwnguin, bob2, and SelfishMan (sorta)
02:34<pwnguin>what OS and version was the old linode?
02:34<pwnguin>and what's the new?
02:35<Smark>they're the same (Ubuntu 9.04)
02:35<pwnguin>was the old one dist-upgraded for long?
02:36<Smark>um
02:36<pwnguin>ie, could you be carrying old configurations around
02:36<Smark>from 8.04 -> 9.04
02:36<pwnguin>directly?
02:36<Smark>or whatever 8.x was
02:36<pwnguin>oh
02:36-!-nb [~nb@beta.bebout.net] has quit [Quit: nb]
02:36<pwnguin>8.10
02:36<Smark>i did upgrade from 8.x -> 9.04 on my old one
02:36<Smark>yeah 8.10
02:37<pwnguin>my desktop's been upgraded from warty -> ... -> jaunty
02:37<linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Using Postfix with Courier and MySQL on Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy) <http://library.linode.com/email-guides/postfix/postfix-courier-mysql-ubuntu-8.04-hardy>
02:37<Smark>i started using ubuntu back at Hoary, but not on the same machine
02:37<Smark>ok so, added 2>&1 to the rest of the entries, lets see if it runs successfully at midnight
02:38<pwnguin>that's ten in place upgrades. sometimes a few things get missed
02:38-!-nb [~nb@li60-207.members.linode.com] has joined #linode
02:38<pwnguin>like when they fought over whether the group should be adm or admin
02:38<Smark>ah
02:38-!-panpainter [~panpainte@c-66-235-62-16.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: panpainter]
02:38<pwnguin>and changed it, but didnt provide a migration
02:39<Smark>there a way to make gmail "unstack" emails, so the (#) doesnt show up next to them and it shows them individually?
02:39<bob2>send them with different subjects
02:39<pwnguin>put the date in the subject
02:39-!-ph_ [~ph^@cm-84.211.180.8.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:40<Smark>ah yeah, they have the same subjects... thanks
02:41<Smark>well that was a _LOT_ of pain for something as stupid as output redirection mistakes... why did it wait for a few dozen lines before SIGPIPEing though?
02:41-!-baddj [~baddj@59.101.140.70] has joined #linode
02:42<baddj>me and linux do not mix :(
02:42<Smark>baddj, cant be as bad as me some days :)
02:42<Smark>thought i've never "rm -rf /"ed
02:45<@mikegrb>lolz
02:45<baddj>lol i can not seem to install any thing from soruce will out it not working lol.
02:45*pparadis hugs Smark
02:45*Smark feels the love
02:45<Smark>baddj, make not found?
02:45<baddj>yea on deb.
02:45<@pparadis>apt-get install build-essential
02:46<Smark>^
02:46<Smark>beat me to it
02:46<@pparadis>i've typed it so many times i've got muscle memory for that one.
02:46<bob2>before you build something from source, think about whether you want to manually maintain it forever or not
02:46<@pparadis>+1 ^
02:46*encode builds irgeek from source
02:46<@pparadis>OH NOES!
02:46<@pparadis>not another one!
02:47<Smark>yeah its been a while since I've built something from source... apt is more like "install it and forget it"
02:47<baddj>lighty is what i was going for ;)
02:47<Smark>baddj, i suggest using the package manager
02:47<bob2>lighttpd is in debian
02:47<@pparadis>http://library.linode.com/web-servers/lighttpd/installing-lighttpd-debian-lenny
02:48<baddj>how the package manager work like if say lighty brings out a new version that fixes a bug i am having will deb include it in du time?
02:48<@pparadis>debian is pretty good about staying on top of security fixes.
02:48<Smark>has anoyne else had trouble logging in to the LPM via the iPhone?
02:48<bob2>in the next debian release
02:48<bob2>if it's a security or serious bug fix, it will be backported
02:49*pparadis backports bob2
02:50<@pparadis>and given that it's 0249, i'm also going home. goodnight, all!
02:50<Smark>night pparadis
02:52<baddj>Cool. i mite install all my stuff using the package manager. but is there a good guide some where that will give me a good workthough in setting up my deb install for the frist time like get it ready for live?
02:52<Smark>baddj: http://library.linode.com/using-linux/package-management
02:52<Smark>might be of help
02:53<Smark>you'll be using apt (aptitude) and/or dkpg (debian package).
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02:55<baddj>Cool. is there any importent things that i need to do when i first get my vps up and going (thinking of rebuilding) or is thing all set all i got to do is install te packages i want and off i go?
02:56<Smark>install the packages and configure them... 90% of your configurations will be in the appropriate folder or file in /etc/
02:57<baddj>okay thank you :)
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03:03<linbot>New news from forums: locate .htaccess file in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4646>
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03:13<Smark>ran successfully!
03:14<arooni-mobile>hi folks
03:14<arooni-mobile>i cant log in; requested password and it wasnt ever sent
03:14<arooni-mobile>ctually nevermind it was ;p
03:15<Huru`>>_<"/
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04:06<Andrew>hmm.. bloody ejabberd
04:06<Andrew>anyone running a jabber server?
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04:10<Andrew>hmm.. I guess not...
04:11<arooni-mobile>hey
04:11<arooni-mobile>i migrated to a 540
04:11<arooni-mobile>and now my app doesnt work
04:11<arooni-mobile>even though linode says its runnning
04:13<Andrew>which app?
04:14<arooni-mobile>i cant even login via ssh
04:14<arooni-mobile>this is a hosting problem; not my apps problem
04:14<arooni-mobile>username "chasetoys"
04:15<arooni-mobile>and so now i'm dishing up my users some quality downtime
04:15<arooni-mobile>so when linode can fix; id love help ;p
04:15<Andrew>have you tried connecting by lish?
04:16<arooni-mobile>nope
04:16<arooni-mobile>ok now its working
04:16<arooni-mobile>apparently you have to reboot after a migration manually
04:16<arooni-mobile>which should be covered in docs
04:16<arooni-mobile>i mean booted then rebooted
04:20<Andrew>hmm
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04:52<amitz>takes time to learn about java API..
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05:01<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
05:01<linbot>New news from forums: Howto: Upgrade Slackware 12.2 to 13.0 in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4658>
05:02<encode>no
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05:31<mike9>hello?
05:32<mike9>im getting this error
05:32<mike9>Cannot spawn application '/home/api/api/current': The spawn server has exited unexpectedly.
05:32<mike9>any ideas?
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05:47<Andrew>not when you are that broad..
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06:59<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: dallas91 in System and Network Status <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4659>
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08:14<Sabaoth>Hi, is there anyone I can talk to about hosting an IRC Network on a Linode box?
08:15<rainman`>!?tos
08:15<rainman`>!tos
08:15<linbot>http://www.linode.com/tos.cfm
08:15<rainman`>:)
08:15<rainman`>basically, it should be ok except for atlanta, which filters
08:15<rainman`>!ops
08:15<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community.
08:16<Sabaoth>Thanks rainman
08:16<rainman`>obviously, no copyright infringement, no attracting ddos
08:17-!-Keith-BlindUser [~BOFHIRC@c-75-71-149-116.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I was using BOFHNet IRC version 1.2 by fmillion - get your copy today from http://www.the-bofh.com/bofhnet/irc !]
08:17<Sabaoth>I had some technical questions to do with what protection was on the box's from attacks such as DDoS as it inevitably happens to larger IRC Networks
08:19<rainman`>not so sure linode wants services that are inevitably DDoSed :)
08:20<Sabaoth>Its nothing more than a normal IRc chat network but from my experience in the last 8-9 years there have been at least 5-6 DDoS attacks overall
08:21<Sabaoth>as networks with 3-5k people just attrack lots of people/attention
08:27<mwalling>DoS attacks are fixed with the Cancel Customer button
08:27<mwalling>!ops
08:27<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community.
08:28<mwalling>!f what can i do with my linode
08:28<linbot>mwalling: What can I do with my Linode? It's probably easier to tell you what you cannot do: Nothing illegal and nothing that interferes with other customers and services. Our Terms of Service document is located here: http://www.linode.com/tos.cfm
08:29<rainman`>!f]
08:29<rainman`>!f
08:29<linbot>rainman`: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it
08:29<rainman`>heh
08:29<rainman`>if i read that
08:29<rainman`>i hear it in my head in the correct voice
08:29<rainman`>:(
08:32-!-laser` [~laser@dyn244136.shef.ac.uk] has joined #linode
08:33<Yaakov>rainman`: http://www.palantir.net/2001/tma1/wav/mission.wav
08:34<Yaakov>http://www.palantir.net/2001/tma1/wav/cantdo.wav
08:47-!-Remag [~a2279262@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
08:47<Remag>Anyone know if CA servers are having problems this morning?
08:48<Remag>I keep droping pings...
08:50<Yaakov>!mtr-newark fremont1.linode.com
08:50<linbot>Yaakov: [mtr] fremont1.linode.com: 8 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 81.2ms
08:50<Yaakov>!mtr-fremont newark1.linode.com
08:50<Remag>my server IP is 74.207.243.68
08:50<linbot>Yaakov: [mtr] newark1.linode.com: 10 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 81.2ms (These results brought to you by urmom and the number 42)
08:50-!-prae [praetorian@124-170-206-33.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #linode
08:51<Yaakov>!mtr-newark 74.207.243.68
08:51<linbot>Yaakov: [mtr] 74.207.243.68: 9 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 81.4ms
08:51<Remag>Ping statistics for 74.207.243.68: Packets: Sent = 300, Received = 282, Lost = 18 (6% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 56ms, Maximum = 125ms, Average = 59ms
08:52<Yaakov>Get mtr and run that.
08:53<Remag>odd
08:53<Remag>its running like a champ right now...?
08:53<@mikegrb>lolz
08:53<Remag>lol
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08:56<Remag>Im really confused right now
08:56<Remag>haha
08:56<Remag>but all is well it seems.
08:56<Remag>Ping statistics for 74.207.243.68: Packets: Sent = 220, Received = 220, Lost = 0 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 56ms, Maximum = 162ms, Average = 58ms
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09:14<Remag>BTW, thanks for your assistance this morning!
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10:17<SHINSAKU>Anyone know hardware searching site? I need list of motherboards that are socket 775 and that are WITHOUT sound card nor graphic card
10:18-!-megatron27_ [~firdaus@118.100.136.30] has joined #linode
10:18<Karrde>newegg?
10:20<SHINSAKU>Karrde thx
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10:28<markvandenborre>caker: do you do gift certificates?
10:29<markvandenborre>my dad celebrates his 60th birthday
10:29<markvandenborre>and he retires
10:29<markvandenborre>I'd like to offer him a 1 year Linode subscription
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10:31<Andrew>interesting..
10:35<markvandenborre>(he likes fiddling with php, but I don't trust his skills on my linodes :-)
10:35<markvandenborre>think Swiss cheese
10:37<@tychoish>markvandenborre :) you could buy a linode in your account and create an additional account in the linode manager that only has access to "his" linode
10:39<Andrew>your dads hardcore
10:41<amitz>yeah, I was a bit speechless.
10:42<Andrew>yep.. he didn't even mention cobol
10:42<Andrew>or its predecessor
10:42<amitz>yeah, cobol is understandable but php?!
10:42<Andrew>I know
10:43<Andrew>...
10:43<Andrew>I wouldn't trust him on my linode either, guy will probably find a local privilege escalation exploit
10:44<Andrew>and make it part of his botnet..
10:47<rainman`>what makes you think your linode is not already
10:48<Andrew>There isn't enough ram or swap left to run a bot.. I'm the worlds worst VPS administrator :P
10:48-!-daMaestro [~jon@content.beatport.com] has joined #linode
10:49<amitz>and I probably have the most useless VPS in all linode... I think.
10:50<Andrew>How much traffic do you get?
10:50<Andrew>believe me, Other then me, the only other traffic is GoogleBot
10:50<Andrew>In the last 3 weeks, Bing has only indexed 1 page
10:51<amitz>Andrew: I don't think googlebot even visit my site..
10:51<rainman`>my linode will make me rich
10:51<megatron27_>monetarily?
10:51<amitz>oh wait! I'm indexed by google! I'm indexed! Googlebot visited me, oh yeah!
10:51<Andrew>You can check on webmaster tools amitz.. it only indexes 5 pages a day for mine
10:52<Andrew>Oh, and the only worthwhile content on my site atm is aviation humor I got from other sources, had a forum for the past 6 months there.. 6 months is the last time someone registered a username at my site, nobody has ever posted in the forum (even me)
10:52<amitz>Andrew: oh, never bothered to register that website to google webmaster.
10:53<amitz>aviation humor?! interesting coincidence..say, how can I recognize if it's your website (if you don;t mind)?
10:53<Andrew>I do, only to watch my 404 pages climb
10:54<Andrew>easy.. Its the one with an empty forum
10:54-!-litwol|mac [~litwol@cpe-74-73-165-180.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:54<Andrew>why, whats yours?
10:54<Andrew>and whys it coincidental
10:54<amitz>I used to browse anything aviation including jokes, just to get an idea of the kind of people working there since I was considering the job offer of an aviation company.
10:55<Andrew>AHHH nice
10:55<Andrew>doing what?
10:55<amitz>aviation, particularly the story of people in tower/cockpit and their radio communications are interesting :-)
10:55<megatron27_>aviation? you sick fuck
10:56<Andrew>I'm only a private pilot, so I wouldn't know what its like to work there, but its a good environment, needs to be because pilots know they need to get along with another person for hours at a time..
10:56<Andrew>yeah.. been reading a lot of them myself amitz
10:56<amitz>software development, the one where you manage all things concerning your flight. EMS or something like that.
10:56<amitz>let me look at my archive.
10:56<rainman`>megatron27_, yes, in six years i intend to buy the internet
10:57<Andrew>hmm
10:57<Andrew>anyway, intresting to hear
10:57<Andrew>rainman`.. you can start by buying my website off me
10:57<Andrew>Gotta start somewhere right?
10:57<rainman`>i offer -20 euro's
10:57<Karrde>I offer -2 euros
10:58<rainman`>i can't go that high, sorry
10:58<Andrew>seriously, its worth less then that.. The amount of time I am wasting on it..
10:58<rainman`>oh, i would just take the money and then delete it i guess
10:59<rainman`>once i buy the internet, i'll delete half of it too
10:59<megatron27_>why delete it on your own when you can pay someone to do it for you!
10:59<amitz>hmm they still have the vacancy! heh..
10:59<amitz>megatron27_: what's wrong with aviation?
10:59<megatron27_>I used to offer Facebook and Friendster consultancy services where I would basically manage their profile for my clients. No one has signed up for this service yet.
11:00-!-TheJoe is now known as TheJoe|ZzZz
11:00<megatron27_>so basically I would approve friends, send out friend requests, tag people, post status updates on their behalf etc..
11:00<amitz>megatron27_: interesting idea, maybe the right approach will get you some clients.
11:00<rainman`>heh
11:00<Andrew>add Myspace to the list too, and you probably will..
11:00<Andrew>Never used friendstar though..
11:01<megatron27_>friendster is the best
11:01<Andrew>How do I know if thats sarcasm or not?
11:01<amitz>megatron27_: in malaysia.
11:01<megatron27_>Andrew: trust me, I'm a consultant
11:02<Andrew>The executive management team are all people who worked at banks 0.o
11:03<amitz>facebook really eat the lunch of friendster in Indonesia this year.
11:03<Andrew>You in Indo?
11:03<amitz>yeah
11:03<Andrew>used to live there
11:03<Andrew>I've never even heard of friendstar...
11:03<amitz>oh, well, when did you live here?
11:04<Andrew>10 years ago
11:04<amitz>I don't think it existed yet (guessing).
11:04<Andrew>oops.. I suck at administrating my server so much, I'm running 2 jabber servers accidentally.. And one of them is Java based !
11:05<Andrew>(and openfire is using 300mb of ram on a Linode 360)
11:05<megatron27_>wtf home prices went up in July
11:07<fapestniegd>dead cat bounce
11:07<amitz>megatron27_: maybe because the economy is picking up :-)
11:08<fapestniegd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_bounce
11:09<Andrew>http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Swappiness << can I trust this?
11:09-!-Bass10 [~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:10<amitz>fapestniegd: hmm probably.
11:11<fapestniegd>amitz: credit markets are freezing again, creating concern about another dip
11:11-!-SHINSAKU [~Shinsaku@chello089076140236.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:11<Andrew>and yet, if that happens, just build a mudbrick house.. Problem solved..
11:12<fapestniegd>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6190818/US-credit-shrinks-at-Great-Depression-rate-prompting-fears-of-double-dip-recession.html
11:13<amitz>fapestniegd: it's really confusing. Some entities seem able to manage without significant credit line yet their customers/vendors may probably not.
11:13<fapestniegd>amitz: you could have stopped at "confusing."
11:13<Andrew>this is starting to remind me of my mate whose really paranoid about the economy, and believes there will be a massive collapse of it in 2012, iran will get invaded, there are aliens, etc..
11:13<amitz>so they don't really have much effect. I'm talking about Asia.
11:14<rainman`>Andrew, don't forget: all heads of state are secretly reptiles from outer space
11:14<fapestniegd>Andrew: tell her to not worry, the aliens are already here.
11:14<rainman`>and the cloud trails left by airplanes contain mind control chemicals
11:14<Andrew>Oops, must translate into american english
11:14<Andrew>In AUS english, mate refers to a friend..
11:15<amitz>It's interesting to see contradicting pressure to price of commodities.
11:15<Andrew>we don't get the discovery channel here...
11:15<amitz>Andrew: heh, I just watched Hustle. British has some interesting vocabs.
11:15<fapestniegd>on the topic of 2012: http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm
11:16<Andrew>and yeaaahh.. Used 203MB ram, 156mb free
11:16<Andrew>and thats with an 80mb jabber server.. nobody on 113 in Fremont will kill me now
11:16<amitz>Bird = woman? I'd use bird as man.
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11:18<Andrew>hmm.. i should probably enable iptables one day..
11:18<fapestniegd>Andrew: it should be today
11:19<Andrew>Why though.. today I should at least port scan my post..
11:19<Andrew>nothing should be open anyway if its not needed..
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11:22<fapestniegd>Logging
11:22<fapestniegd>without iptables, do you know who is port-scanning you?
11:23<Andrew>should it matter if you know?
11:23<fapestniegd>It does to me.
11:23<Andrew>why?
11:23<tarpman>fapestniegd: I usually just assume that everyone and anyone is :)
11:23<Karrde>^
11:23<fapestniegd>black-hole them
11:23<Andrew>half the people port scanning you are bots
11:23<Andrew>and what would that accomplish?
11:23<Andrew>you wouold still be as insecure as you were previously..
11:24-!-LV [~61784075@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
11:24*amitz watches the philosophical question.
11:24<LV>so I've been signed up for 5 minutes and already can't figure out which pass or accounts are live, once I access the thing.
11:24<Peng_>LV: root, with the password you gave while creating it.
11:24<fapestniegd>Andrew: iptables gives you a level of access you don't have with "just what's needed"
11:25<Peng_>LV: Log in as root, set up a normal user, and turn off root logins. :D
11:25<LV>Peng_: k
11:25<fapestniegd>ssh for example, do you need to be able to get to ssh from every ip on the internet?
11:25<Andrew>labrea tarpits may potentially do something (unlikely), but all dropping packets will do is make port scanning take marginally longer (but not much)
11:25<amitz>fapestniegd: who knows? better safe than sorry :-p
11:25<fapestniegd>amitz: :)
11:25<megatron27_>is it possible to block by geographic region because I only ever access from my country
11:26<Andrew>sshd has options built in though probably to limit it to certain ips (never checked)
11:26<Andrew>but for me, I do.. because the people using it are using a dynamic ip
11:26<amitz>megatron27_: don't underestimate the possibility of being kidnaped or deported to another country :-p
11:26<fapestniegd>Andrew: sshd built in options often don't protect you from ssh exploits, you can s/ssh/any service/ here
11:27<megatron27_>amitz: yeah, the first thing i would do in those cases is check my linode server
11:27*Andrew checks the conf
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11:28<amitz>megatron27_: wouldn't you? :-p
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11:29<Andrew>nope... it cant.. But for me, don't need that anyway
11:29<Remag>Seems server went down again
11:29<Remag>and now... its back up
11:29<fapestniegd>maybe I'm just over-paranoid about security, but that tends to happen when the FBI calls and informs you that your Solaris servers have been rooted using a Tooltalk exploit and are launching attacks against the Pentagon. That lesson is like licking a power outlet. You don't care to learn it that way twice...
11:30<fapestniegd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight_Maze
11:30<fapestniegd>good times...
11:30<amitz>fapestniegd: that must be exciting, I envy you.. a bit :-D
11:30<Andrew>Just saying though, if your server is insecure, all firewalling will do mostly is lengthen the time for it to be hacked, unless you can restrict services to a specific IP
11:30<Andrew>which I cant..
11:30<fapestniegd>amitz: it wasn't fun at all.
11:30<Andrew>and wait.. you serious?
11:31<fapestniegd>Andrew: "lengthen the time for it to be hacked" is key to security
11:31<fapestniegd>hackers go for lower hanging fruit
11:32<Andrew>yeah.. but reducing the IP range from worldwide to a country probably wouldn't buy that much time.. Anyway, in my case, it doesn't add much (saves bandwidth though maybe)
11:32<fapestniegd>Andrew: yes. I was a sysadmin at Auburn University when Moonlight Maze occured, the FBI flew a special agent out to get a copy of the code off the server...
11:32<amitz>fapestniegd: it probably wasn't fun but you tend to view those past events from a nostalgic googles.
11:32<amitz>goggles. Damn, google.
11:32<fapestniegd>Andrew: I'm just saying that a firewall on every host is a good idea.
11:33<Andrew>can be..
11:33*irgeek doesn't bother
11:33<fapestniegd>amitz: It certainly changed my care-free attitude towards security
11:33<Andrew>But all my services are public
11:33<Andrew>so its just a bandwidth saving
11:34<fapestniegd>iptables and ipsec ftw
11:35<Remag>Does anymore know if CA servers are having any problems?
11:35<mwalling>computer associates?
11:35<Andrew>Which server are you specifically on remag?
11:35<Andrew>and is fremont CA?
11:35<mwalling>our software store is up
11:37<Andrew>then no..
11:37<Andrew>at least not 113
11:38<fapestniegd>Andrew: all your services are public, but does it hurt you to deny them to any host that port-scans you? It may not be 100%, as a botnet that has one host scanning and other's launching exploits, would still get through, but one that utilizes exploits from the scanning host wouldn't. Again, it's all about minimizing risk, not eliminating it...
11:38<Remag>fremont120
11:38<Remag>sorry, had a user walk up
11:38-!-TheJoe|ZzZz is now known as TheJoe
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11:39<Remag>I've been dropping packets all morning to the server
11:39<Andrew>nope.. But just saying, first step should always be to ensure you are secure.. A firewall should just be an extra policy, and should technically make no difference to your security
11:39<@irgeek>We haven't gotten any alarms and nobody else has mentioned anything. MTR?
11:40<fapestniegd>Andrew: I would absolutely agree with that statement.
11:40<Andrew>And thats all good in well.. But I have plenty of open ports which I have no idea about currently :P
11:40<fapestniegd>it's like back-ups. you should never *need* them, but man, if you don't have them when you do.... :)
11:41<@irgeek>And test them!
11:41<fapestniegd>irgeek: no kidding!
11:41<Remag>Hmmm
11:41<fapestniegd>no one in the history of IT has ever asked for a back-up, restores however...
11:41*irgeek has seen too many people/companies with a backup strategy that doesn't a restore strategy
11:42<fapestniegd>irgeek: my girlfriend is an EMC SA for Networker (formerly Legato) and yeah, it's frightening...
11:42<fapestniegd>"we have tapes, so we're good, right?"
11:44<Remag>Any ideas on why I would be dropping packets?
11:44<@irgeek>MTR?
11:44<laser`>Remag: Have you run MTR on your host?
11:44<Andrew>completely? remag.. or just a bit.. There could be many reasons
11:44<Andrew>whats MTR?
11:44<laser`>Perhaps it's an intermediate router
11:44<mwalling>!mtr
11:44<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ or http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/ for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark or dallas.
11:44<Remag>True Andrew. it was a loaded question. My apologies
11:45<Andrew>could even be heavy swapping causing it..
11:45<Andrew>ahh ok
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11:48<Andrew>guess I should get some firewalling happening..
11:48<@irgeek>Remag: I'm dropping exactly 0 packets to you from Dallas. Without more info there's nothing we can do.
11:49<Remag>im not either
11:49<Andrew>save some RST packets getting sent..
11:49-!-dzjepp [~menace2s@adsl-76-239-23-101.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
11:49<Remag>its odd
11:49<Andrew>Anyone used shorewall recently?
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11:50<Karrde>24/7 ?
11:50<Peng_>If you're on Ubuntu, ufw is a really simple firewall program. :D
11:50<fapestniegd>Andrew: that's actually what I use. :)
11:50<Andrew>ok.. I guess its still good then
11:51<@irgeek>Remag: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/netfilter/ip_conntrack_max && cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/netfilter/ip_conntrack_count
11:51<Andrew>last time I used it was probably 7 years ago
11:51<Andrew>But projects change.. Does it use additional RAM over IPtables? it shouldn't should it?
11:51<fapestniegd>Andrew: I just wanted something I didn't have to maintain and could manage with cfengine/puppet
11:52<fapestniegd>it's just a parser that translates your configs to iptables calls
11:52<fapestniegd>it doesn't "run" except at start/stop
11:52<fapestniegd>the rest is iptables
11:52<Andrew>Thats what i thought/remembered.. But never checked it specifically
11:52<Andrew>so guess i'll use it again
11:52<Remag>65536
11:52<Remag>44
11:53<@irgeek>No problem there.
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11:55<Remag>I even stay connected through SSH
11:56<Remag>but I can't ping server... and mysql browser drops
11:56<Remag>could it be because of a timeour for mysql?
11:56<laser`>Well maybe your firewall blocks ICMP?
11:57<Andrew>type free -m remag..
11:59<Remag>Mem: 1080 1015 64 0 48 591 -/+ buffers/cache: 375 705 Swap: 255 0 255
11:59<Remag>not the swap
11:59<Remag>a lot of mem is being used though
12:00<Remag>fyi... im a linux newb
12:00<Remag>so... ya
12:00<@irgeek>Half of your memory is going to caches. That's memory that's only sort of used. :)
12:00<Andrew>could be a lot of things..
12:01<Remag>running Debian 5.0
12:01<Remag>im runnign a java portal server
12:01<Remag>so when the ping drops... the server also drops :x
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12:10<@jed>mwalling: re: identica: iptables -I INPUT 1 -p tcp --dport 22 -s <where_editing_from> -j ACCEPT
12:10<@jed>= <3
12:11<mwalling>heh
12:11<fapestniegd>Remag: have you looked at your jvm memory args?
12:11<@jed>we'rewatchingyou
12:11<@jed>;)
12:11<mwalling>actually, doing mroe scary routing then just firewalls
12:11<Remag>no
12:11<@jed>oh, yeah, you can breaking things in interesting ways in PREROUTING
12:11<mwalling>yeah
12:12<mwalling>i was avoiding getting up and walking upstairs
12:12<Guspaz|m>It looks like only 375MB of RAM is being used on Remag's box.
12:12<@jed>PREROUTING scares the willies out of me
12:12<@jed>I go in there with jack daniels in hand
12:12<fapestniegd>mwalling: knockd :)
12:12<mwalling>uh, what?
12:13<fapestniegd>port knocking daemon
12:13<mwalling>again, uh, what?
12:13<mwalling>how would i knock on ports if i couldnt get traffic to the machine?
12:13<fapestniegd>it allows you to open ports based on a series of "knocks" on other ports
12:13<mwalling>ignore+=1
12:13<@mikegrb>lolz
12:13<Remag>lol
12:15<mwalling>what i really need is to get a serial cable and cross link some machines up there
12:15<@jed>Opengear!
12:15<@jed>convince GE to invest in an Opengear. they're solid. I've used them before.
12:16<mwalling>$$$
12:16<@jed>not THAT bad :)
12:16<mwalling>ask tom how much fun it is to sell to us
12:16<@jed>look at a CM4008, it's probably cheap enough to do exactly what you need
12:16-!-Deckert [~Deckert@dsl-240-164-187.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #linode
12:16<mwalling>tasaro: how much fun is it to be a vendor?
12:17<path>you GE people probably use $1 bills for toilet paper
12:17<mwalling>path: in CT they do
12:17<mwalling>not in NY
12:17<path>oh, my fault
12:17<mwalling>maybe in GA
12:17<path>doubtful
12:17<path>they're spending it all on sandbags
12:18<mwalling>jed: is it 4000 + $NUMPORTS?
12:18<@jed>yeah
12:18<@jed>there's a CM4001, CM4008, etc
12:18<@jed>CM4008 is < $500 I think
12:18<mwalling>450
12:18<@jed>you have to do some custom RS-232 twiddling like you do with ciscos, though
12:18<mwalling>our dev server is on a totally diferent subnet, vlan, and everything... two racks over...
12:19<mwalling>i just need to run some serial cables from that to the other stack
12:19<mwalling>(dev server isnt in my /23)
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13:01<Dorca>Does anyone have any idea why my ubuntu linode can't find the teamspeak-server package?
13:03<Andrew>check your /etc/apt/sources.l**
13:03<Andrew>.lst or .list
13:03<Andrew>whatever it is
13:04<Andrew>make sure you have multiverse, universe, and whatever else is there
13:04<Andrew>teamspeak is probably in universe
13:04<Dorca>I added universe
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13:04<Andrew>did you apt-get update?
13:04<Dorca>Yeah
13:05<Peng>Uh-ohs, irssi on my node is stuck at 17:02:07.
13:05<Dorca>Still couldn't find the package
13:05<Peng>Huh, over HTTP, I can connect to my node but it doesn't respond.
13:06<Andrew>dunno.. its in multiverse though
13:06<Peng>NTP is down too.
13:06<Peng>This is fun!
13:06<Andrew>anyway.. night
13:07<Peng>Wow, it's OOMing.
13:07<Andrew>well, thats your own fault peng
13:07<Andrew>night
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13:08<erikh>Dorca: it's here on my box, I have universe and multiverse enabled.
13:08<purrdeta>I think the disk io graph is broken.
13:08<Peng>I wonder why it's OOMing?
13:09<Karrde>it's using too much RAM
13:09<Peng>Well duh.
13:10<Peng>In all my time using Linux, I don't think I've ever invoked the oom killer before.
13:10<Peng>Now I leave my 'node alone for an hour and it does. :D
13:10<Peng>dies*
13:10<Guspaz|m>Has this happened before?
13:11<Peng>Guspaz|m: Surprisingly, no.
13:11<Peng>Honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't ever OOMed before.
13:11-!-Dorca [~Dorca@86-42-100-111-dynamic.b-ras1.blp.dublin.eircom.net] has quit [Quit: Dorca]
13:11<Guspaz|m>Why would it have?
13:11-!-Peng_ [~mnordhoff@tick.mattnordhoff.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:11<Peng>Haha, there it goes.
13:12<Peng>Guspaz|m: Cuz I'm an idiot who's never learned ulimit, and run some rather dumb applications.
13:12<Peng>I forgot, what is one supposed to do in this situation? Lish doesn't respond. Just unplug it, or wait a few minutes for it to magically fix itself or what?
13:12<mwalling>reboot time probably
13:13<Peng>It still responds to ping, but it's about 25 ms slower than usual. :D
13:13-!-test33 [~56149eaa@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:15<Peng>How should I reboot it? Through the dashboard/lish reboot button? But that'll unplug it if it's too slow, right?
13:15<Peng>sysrq?
13:15-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@118.100.130.215] has joined #linode
13:15<Guspaz|m>The machine is locked up now. It needs a reboot.
13:15<Guspaz|m>Akin to hitting the reset button on the case.
13:16<megatron27>my connection isn't that slow
13:16<megatron27>but it's not fast enough to stream video
13:17<Peng>Heh, it stopped responding to ping.
13:17-!-adnc [~numer@p548575AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #linode
13:18<Peng>Now it is responding to ping.
13:19<litwol|mac>Sounds like one of those bash.org jokes about a lost computer >.<
13:20<Peng>In this case, I know where it is, it just stopped responding to ping. :P
13:20<Peng>And everything else.
13:20<Peng>How long does the rebooter wait before pulling the plug?
13:22<Peng>Apparently at least this long. :P
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13:26<@mikegrb>mmm cake
13:26<tylerdu>mmm cake
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13:26<linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Setting up a LAMP Server on Arch Linux <http://library.linode.com/lamp-guides/arch-linux/index>
13:26<Peng>Logs aren't of any help. It looks like they dropped out when everything else did.
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13:44<Guspaz|m>Leave top running in lish, then.
13:44<Guspaz|m>Sorting by memory (capital M)
13:49<vblank>check out nmon when you have some time...
13:52<Yaakov>htop
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14:04<Peng_>Guspaz|m: That's a really clever idea.
14:05<Peng_>Oh, god, htop looks horrible in lish.
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14:08<Guspaz|m>Regular top works OK.
14:08<Peng_>Indeed.
14:10<Peng_>OK, sorting by memory. Perfect. Still, it probably won't ever OOM again. (I hope, anyway.)
14:10<Peng_>And if it does, the responsible process may get killed before the shell does.
14:10<Peng_>dies*!
14:10<Peng_>stty can fix the console size, so now it's pretty usable. Just not for htop.
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14:11<tarpman>Peng_: are you using the ajax thing or actual ssh?
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14:11<Guspaz|m>The shell getting killed won't matter if you're using Lish, since it should still show the last thing it saw, no?
14:11<Guspaz|m>Unless something clears the buffer...
14:14<Peng_>tarpman: Actual ssh.
14:14<tarpman>curious.
14:15<Peng_>Guspaz|m: In my case, the OOM killer got a few things, and then the whole system locked up. Depending on when the getty locks up, the guilty processes may have already been killed.
14:15<Peng_>Guspaz|m: The terminal is automatically respawned if it does, so if the system isn't locked up, it might get restarted, clearing the old buffer.
14:15<Peng_>dies*! I can't type that today.
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14:34-!-P-Ditto [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
14:35<P-Ditto>Hi Linoders. Anyone have experience w/setting up squid + connecting win32 app via freecap?
14:39-!-lesouvage [~chatzilla@82.73.69.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:42<P-Ditto>I am using Freecap to connect my browser to my linode proxy server and I am getting denied. This is the access log entry:
14:42<P-Ditto>1253644645.530 87 144.198.182.10 TCP_DENIED/403 1224 CONNECT news.google.com:80 - NONE/- text/html
14:42<P-Ditto>but when i connect w/o freecap (i.e. open FF and directly enter in proxy info), it works
14:42<P-Ditto>anyone have any idea?
14:45-!-P-Ditto [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:46<Guspaz|m>He didn't wait very long.
14:48<Peng_>Maybe he figured it out.
14:50<Guspaz|m>I SSH tunnel my proxy. Squid on my VPS only listens on localhost.
14:51-!-tony [~tony@66.193.158.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:52<mwalling>ditto
14:52<mwalling>i found http proxies easier to deal w/ then socks
14:53<vblank>dude, how is ssh -D hard?
14:53<mwalling>does wget support socks?
14:54-!-elfgoh [~dingding@adsl181.dyn212.pacific.net.sg] has joined #linode
14:54<Guspaz|m>"ssh -D" is a bit harder on Windows.
14:54<vblank>a dynamic tunnel with putty is pretty easy
14:54<Guspaz|m>Still requires a sockscap style thing
14:54<Guspaz|m>And those don't work for shit.
14:55<mwalling>let me rephrase, i can make a socks forward just fine. i have issues with application support
14:55<JshWright>Oooh look, apparently Slicehost lets you choose which kernel you want to run in the control panel now
14:55<Guspaz|m>JshWright: Uh oh, they're catching up with Linode. Come on, caker, we need some new crazy features :P
14:55-!-agentbleubleu [~agentbleu@lns-bzn-59-82-252-176-213.adsl.proxad.net] has left #linode []
14:55<vblank>yeah I thought we were talking about browsers, you're right
14:55<mwalling>vblank: sorry, i do more then browse the webz
14:56<Guspaz|m>Browsers are easy, but don't really require SOCKS anyhow. But random applications...
14:56<Guspaz|m>Also, I'm not sure that UDP works right with SOCKS.
14:56<Guspaz|m>Easier to VPN at that point.
14:56<JshWright>Guspaz|m: s'ok, you can still only pick 64-bit kernels, and when you hit "apply"
14:56<JshWright>is instantly reboots your "slice"
14:56<Peng_>Insta-reboot is Slicehost's SOP, no?
14:56<Guspaz|m>Why would you want to run a 64-bit kernel on a VPS where memory is at a premium?
14:57<JshWright>I need a new keyboard, the double quote key is way too close to the enter key
14:57<Guspaz|m>I mean, sure, I run 64-bit on my desktop, but I have 12GB of RAM...
14:57<Peng_>Guspaz|m: Dunno, but SH is 64-bit only.
14:57<Guspaz|m>WTF.
14:57<Guspaz|m>What a collosal waste of memory.
14:57<Peng_>You have 12 GB of RAM? I'm so jealous!
14:57<mwalling>Guspaz|m: slicehost only supports 64 bit
14:57<mwalling>!64bit
14:57<linbot>http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/11/24/slicehost-vs-linode
14:57<Peng_>Shrug. Maybe it's an evil plan to get customers to upgrade.
14:57<Guspaz|m>It was cheap at the time. I got an i7, so triple-channel. So I picked up 12GB of RAM for $180 CAD.
14:57<Guspaz|m>DDR3-1333, I believe.
14:57<neekers>mwalling: http://www.sleepyti.me/testproject/
14:58<mwalling>neekers: sorry, thats not the poll app
14:58<Peng_>Does SH do pv-grub?
14:58<Pryon>404'd!
14:58<neekers>mwalling: the poll app is deleted, i spent 6 hours on it this morning
14:59<mwalling>neekers: so are you bragging or asking?
14:59<neekers>i fixed the problem i had with the book app and i'm moving on
14:59<mwalling>neekers: so you're bragging
14:59<mwalling>(honestly asking here)
14:59-!-daMaestro [~jon@content.beatport.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:00<neekers>no, just telling you what i did, i learned enough from the poll tutorial to understand what i was doing wrong. thank you for prssing me to do the tutorial
15:00-!-niraldo [~c92d31a2@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
15:01<neekers>i have a much better understading of django now
15:01<niraldo>hi my name is niraldo, i'm a linux noob, but a i have a persistent question: can i copy a chroot whith my web aplications to this host
15:02<mwalling>!f what can i do with my linode
15:02<linbot>mwalling: What can I do with my Linode? It's probably easier to tell you what you cannot do: Nothing illegal and nothing that interferes with other customers and services. Our Terms of Service document is located here: http://www.linode.com/tos.cfm
15:02<mwalling>niraldo: ^^
15:03<mwalling>neekers: this is the typical outcome of rule 4 :)
15:03<neekers>i forget what the rules where..
15:03<mwalling>!therules
15:03<linbot>The rules: (#1) ignore aaronyy, (#2) ignore b4, (#3) SelfishMan is the resident arrogant prick, (#4) mwalling is the resident asshole
15:03<neekers>were
15:03<neekers>haha
15:03<mwalling>!helpushelpyou
15:03<linbot>http://noobfarm.org/viewquote.php?id=1458
15:03<neekers>i'll try not to forget that again
15:04<mwalling>niraldo: technically, there is very little you cant do on a linode. hell, my home phone comes through
15:04<mwalling>y linode
15:04<mwalling>twitchy enter key
15:06<niraldo>my aplications are all configured in this chroot that lenny installed
15:06-!-daMaestro [~jon@content.beatport.com] has joined #linode
15:07-!-Turl [~Turl@host158.190-31-30.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:08<niraldo>so this host don't give me permission to just copy my chroot
15:09<niraldo>then a have to install all my web aplication inside my linode again
15:09<niraldo>?
15:09<SelfishMan>!urmom
15:09<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's so ugly, she got a tattoo and her doctor said her skin condition was clearing up! (734:0/1) [omumr]
15:09<SelfishMan>niraldo: ?
15:10<Guspaz|m>mwalling: Why have your home phone go through your linode instead of a local box?
15:10<vblank>because he does lots of stuff other than browsin the webz!
15:10<path>linode has better uptime than my cable modem
15:10<Guspaz|m>niraldo: Your linode is like a virtual computer. You can do anything you want on it. You have root access.
15:10<niraldo>=]
15:10<Guspaz|m>path: But if your phone ultimately comes through the cable modem anyhow, it wouldn't matter.
15:11<niraldo>you say holly word for me right now
15:11<niraldo>words
15:11<niraldo>root access
15:11<Guspaz|m>Well, keep in mind that you still have to do it yourself. You get an empty server to set up and use as you wish.
15:11<path>they can at least leave a voicemail if my electric or cable is down
15:11<path>plus i have an iphone app that can attach to my asterisk server
15:11<Guspaz|m>path: If your DID provider is doing your voicemail for you, that's not a concern.
15:12<path>mine is not
15:12<Guspaz|m>Most DIDs come with free voicemail.
15:12<path>i don't want that
15:12<Guspaz|m>Why not?
15:12<path>because
15:13<Guspaz|m>Said DID providers mail your voicemail to you. Admittedly you can set up asterix to do that too, but easier to offload it.
15:13<straterra>I love my voicemail in my email
15:14<path>if i am going to put the effort into setting up asterisk, why would i want a provider to do all of that.
15:14<path>if i wanted the easy way, i'd just get a vonage box.
15:14<path>or comcast voice services
15:14<straterra>Or magicjack
15:14<path>yes!
15:14<Pryon>My DID comes with a DID :-)
15:14<straterra>I love my magicjack
15:15<straterra>I don't have a deskphone, so I bought one for work usage
15:15<Guspaz|m>vonage is a ripoff and magicjack seems like a scam
15:15<straterra>How is it a scam?
15:15<Guspaz|m>They do strange things with your calling history, refuse to put any kind of pricing info on their website, somehow show you ads or something...
15:15<path>i know a few people that use magicjack.. i think it's kinda silly. but it doesn't seem to be a scam.
15:15<Guspaz|m>Not a scam, just... sketch.
15:15<path>i do think they oversell their services from what i hear about quality
15:15<straterra>There aren't ads..
15:16<straterra>I've never had quality issues, even on an aircard..my call history works fine..and their pricing is pretty clear
15:16<straterra>$40 for hardware + first years service, $20 a year after that
15:16-!-niraldo [~c92d31a2@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:16<Guspaz|m>Kind of hard to tell since their website doesn't have much information about their services other than that there's a FREE TRAIL because if you FREE TRAIL actually wanted FREE TRAIL any information about FREE TRAIL their services then FREE TRIAL you'd better look FREE TRAIL elsewhere. FREE TRAIL.
15:16-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@124.13.65.178] has joined #linode
15:16<Karrde>TRAIL?
15:16<Guspaz|m>errm
15:16*path is seeing trails
15:16<Guspaz|m>TRIAL
15:17<Guspaz|m>I'd rather just get a cheap DID and a simple ATA. But then, I don't use VoIP, I'm cell-only.
15:17<Pryon>Is it a fair trail?
15:17<path>so then why get a DID at all?
15:17<Guspaz|m>2000 minutes for $40 CAD/mth means I don't really have a need for local phone.
15:18<path>i think a good portion of the people here like to tinker with things and that includes asterisk.
15:18<Guspaz|m>That's the thing, I don't have a DID, I just use my iPhone for all my calling.
15:18<path>for $1.50/month for a DID, it's a cheap thing to play with
15:19<Guspaz|m>I'd love to have Google Voice, but they removed support for Canada when Google bought it.
15:19<Pryon>path: if you want to recieve non-VOIP calls how do you do that without a DID?
15:19<Guspaz|m>Removed. Damn them.
15:19<Guspaz|m>Pryon: They call your DID.
15:19<path>i get a DID for a couple bucks
15:19<Guspaz|m>Errm, sorry, misread that.
15:19<Pryon>haha
15:19<Guspaz|m>Yeah, DIDs are dirt cheap.
15:21<Guspaz|m>Still, it's just an extra expense anyhow. I'd still need my cellphone, so...
15:21<Pryon>The only problem is getting a local DID in the boonies
15:21<Pryon>Guspaz|m: Yeah, you need a backup for LD for when comcast shits itself
15:21<Guspaz|m>I've got the iPhone 3GS; $40/mth for 2000 anytime minutes, $10/mth for caller ID and visual voicemail, $30/mth for 6GB data and tethering.
15:21<megatron27>I'd ditch my local phone if there was number portability for fixed line numbers
15:21<straterra>I thought you could only get the iPhone with unlimited data..
15:21<Guspaz|m>comcast? Why would my iPhone go through Comcast?
15:22<Guspaz|m>I'm in Canada. My cell company is Fido.
15:22<straterra>Guh
15:22<Guspaz|m>AT&T's "unlimited" data plan is soft-capped at 5GB.
15:22<Pryon>Guspaz|m: Your iphone is for when your bit pusher goes own
15:22<Guspaz|m>My data plan is hard-capped at 6GB.
15:22<Guspaz|m>But mine includes tethering.
15:22<Guspaz|m>Errm, no, my iPhone is for my normal calling? I'd be paying for it anyhow...
15:23<Guspaz|m>If I want to make long distance and don't want to pay Fido's rates, I use Yak as a dialaround.
15:23<Guspaz|m>3.5 cents per minute north america. Not the best rate, but not that bad.
15:23<erikh>you can't make LD calls on your cell for free?
15:23<erikh>oh, international
15:23<Guspaz|m>In Canada, our cell minutes are local-only, unlike the US.
15:23<Guspaz|m>Calling the next town over means you'd pay LD charges.
15:23<erikh>oy
15:24<erikh>old school
15:24<Pryon>Is that the government or the eeeeeeeeeevil telcos?
15:24<Guspaz|m>It's always been like that, it's the telcos.
15:24<erikh>Pryon: I'd assume a little bit of both
15:24<Guspaz|m>It's just the way it is, it's accepted.
15:24<Guspaz|m>Local calls use minutes, LD uses minutes plus per-minute fees.
15:24<erikh>nah, it just takes one gutsy telco to start offering it
15:24<erikh>the rest will fall in line
15:24<erikh>that's how it happened here
15:25<Pryon>or they'll sue the offender into oblivion
15:25<Guspaz|m>There are only two telcos in this part of the country. Bell and Rogers. The two of them control the only two networks, CDMA and GSM respectively.
15:25<Guspaz|m>All other companies are either owned by or are MVNOs of those two.
15:25<Guspaz|m>My provider, Fido, is wholely owned by Rogers.
15:25<Guspaz|m>My former provider, Virgin Mobile, is (now) wholely owned by Bell.
15:25<TheJoe>Oook so where's a good place to start setting up proftpd on Debian?
15:25<Pryon>TheJoe: by installing ssh and using sftp
15:26<TheJoe>Oook so where's a good place to start setting up proftpd on Debian?
15:26<Guspaz|m>"aptitude update && aptitude install proftpd"
15:26<TheJoe>You are wonderfully helpful today
15:26<vblank>is there a README or INSTALL?
15:27<TheJoe>I can see you're in a wonderful mood today
15:27<Guspaz|m>Any answer I could give would involve me googling, in which case, you could hav googled it yourself.
15:28<Guspaz|m>So it's not so much about a mood...
15:28<erikh>ftp really isn't worth it these days
15:28<Pryon>apt-cache search proftpd doc provides some useful information
15:29<TheJoe>erikh: It is for my needs.
15:29<Pryon>I'm guessing that aptitude will suggest installing the doc package as well. It can give good messages sometimes.
15:29<vblank>where i work everybody thinks ftp is the greatest thing since sliced bread, sigh
15:29<erikh>TheJoe: Honestly, I'm guessing it probably isn't, and you're being too hard headed to consider otherwise
15:29-!-elfgoh [~dingding@adsl181.dyn212.pacific.net.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:29<erikh>unless you're using a computer from the late 90's that can't handle encryption
15:29<Guspaz|m>I think the original suggestion to him was not to use FTP for wordpress plugins, but use the wordpress interface itself for it?
15:29<TheJoe>Anyway - you're being opinionated typical *NIX superiority dicks, which is something I've never seen in this channel before :\
15:30<erikh>no, actually, I'm trying to be polite about it
15:30<TheJoe>I usually associate that with the Ubuntu and Arch forums. Nevermind.
15:30<erikh>but go ahead and install your software, here's a shovel
15:30<vblank>I was trying to be helpful
15:30<TheJoe>Thanks anyway
15:30<Pryon>The fact is that there are alternatives to FTP that are not security problems
15:30<vblank>Is your server public Joe?
15:30<erikh>or have network limitations
15:31<erikh>or require separate ACL configuration
15:31<erikh>oh well.
15:31*adj laughs
15:32<Guspaz|m>Using FTP on the public internet is like driving with a cellphone: you're a hazard to others and should be treated accordingly.
15:32<vblank>ibm does it
15:32<erikh>it's not that it's insecure as much as it's pointless
15:32<adj>whats wrong with ftp again?
15:32<vblank>depends on the mission
15:32<erikh>adj: nothing. what's hte point in using it?
15:32<Pryon>it's a unitasker
15:33<erikh>really; give me one reason that isn't better handled by other services
15:33<erikh>not asking for two... just one
15:33<vblank>a client comes built into windows for it
15:33<TheJoe>It uploads my damn files quickly and easily which is what I needed doing. Thanks so much for your help...
15:33<erikh>vblank: winscp.sf.net
15:33<erikh>solved.
15:33<Guspaz|m>Using ftp instead of sftp is like using telnet instead of SSH. Except if telnet required you to open entire port ranges to get it working.
15:33<adj>um. its fast, it doesnt require system accounts, it chroots users sanely, and its incredibly stable. only downside is that it trasmits without encryption.
15:33<TheJoe>Oh just shut up and go back to LD charges
15:33-!-mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #linode
15:33<adj>Guspaz|m: go ahead and run some ftp vs sftp speed tests for me.
15:33<erikh>adj: ssh can manage all of that
15:33<jtatum>wow TheJoe, don't forget to take your ball when you storm home
15:34<Guspaz|m>adj: SCP is quite a bit faster than SFTP, if you need speed.
15:34<mheld>hey y'all
15:34<adj>Guspaz|m: no it isnt. they are the same damn thing
15:34<TheJoe>jtatum: They caught me in a bad mood. On a normal day, I wouldn't care and I'd just let them get on with it.
15:34<erikh>oh noes
15:34<mheld>I was wondering if any of you would be able to remove my credit card information from my linode account?
15:34<adj>Guspaz|m: sftp just invokes the sftp subsystem from ssh which has a broader command set
15:34<erikh>someone is mad on the internet
15:34<Guspaz|m>adj: They really aren't...
15:34<linbot>Please use SSH/SCP/SFTP/rsync-over-ssh instead of FTP: http://www.43folders.com/2008/07/14/dump-ftp
15:35<Pryon>mheld: Probably best to send an email or open a ticket
15:35<mheld>yeah
15:35<mheld>about to open a ticket
15:35<erikh>SpaceHobo: you're not going to convince them, they're your typical PFY know it alls that got their training from a 10 year old copy of "Linux Unleashed"
15:35<mwalling>Guspaz|m: voicemail when the home internet is down
15:35<erikh>I do what I can.
15:36<mwalling>Guspaz|m: and i do a google-voice style follow me thing too
15:36<Guspaz|m>adj: Wikipedia, as usual, does a better job of explaining it than me. From the "File transfer speed, SCP vs SFTP" section:
15:36<Guspaz|m>"Although both SCP and SFTP utilize the same SSH encryption during file transfer with the same general level of overhead, SCP is usually much faster than SFTP at transferring files especially on high latency networks.
15:36<Guspaz|m>This happens because SCP implements a more efficient transfer algorithm, one which does not require waiting for packet confirmations. This leads to faster speed but comes at the expense of not being able to interrupt a transfer, so unlike SFTP, SCP transfer cannot be canceled without terminating the session."
15:36<adj>Guspaz|m: i'm pretty sure i know the difference...
15:36<Guspaz|m>If you're claiming that they're the same thing, then you obviously don't...
15:37<Guspaz|m>mwalling: Your DID provider, if they do voicemail, can do that for you./
15:37<adj>if yu are quoting wikipedia to prove me wrong then you are obviosly just as clueles..
15:37<mwalling>Guspaz|m: but i dont want them to
15:37<mwalling>Guspaz|m: you cant listen to rickroll while waiting to determine if the house phone is alive if i use my DID
15:37<adj>i have the tests here somewhere.
15:37<TheJoe>http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/22/google-turns-internet-explorer-into-chrome-yes-seriously/ <-- Browser superiority arguments are 200 times better.
15:38<Guspaz|m>Just because two protocols communicate over SSH doesn't mean that they use the same protocol within it.
15:38<TheJoe>http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/ Ok then, is that better for you?
15:39<adj>scp/sftp have identical transfer rates for single file transfers. scp is marginally (but not statistically significant) faster on multiple files because of the way it stats files.
15:39-!-azaghal_ is now known as azaghal
15:39<Guspaz|m>I'd much rather have "ietab" for Chrome than "chrometab" for IE :P
15:39<erikh>TheJoe: 5 minutes ago you didn't even know how to install proftpd, what makes you convinced you know what you're talking about?
15:39<adj>scp and sftp transfering many small files is noticably slower than ftp
15:39<adj>rsync over ssh is faster than all of them
15:39<TheJoe>erikh: Huh? What did I say?
15:39<adj>simple tar over ssh is almost identical to rsync over ssh
15:40<erikh>( 15:25:57 TheJoe ) Oook so where's a good place to start setting up proftpd on Debian?
15:40<erikh>you asked how to configure it?
15:40<TheJoe>erikh: "what makes you convinced you know what you're talking about?"
15:40<vblank>real men use netcat
15:40<erikh>vblank: exactly
15:40<Guspaz|m>Being equally slow isn't the same as being the same thing, although I'd find it odd that scp was as slow as sftp.
15:40<Guspaz|m>I use netcat for imaging disks over the network, it's fun.
15:40<Guspaz|m>But, not over SSH :P
15:40<adj>Guspaz|m: i'm wading through files looking for my benchmakrs now. but feel free to run your own
15:40<erikh>vblank: they write an inbetween on unix sockets in bourne shell to deal with the control port, too
15:41<TheJoe>I don't know what I'm talking about, but I know I didn't ask for an FTP-is-shit argument, which is something I didn't expect to see in this channel.
15:41-!-ph^ [~ph^@cm-84.211.180.8.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:41<erikh>maybe we have a reason for saying ftp is shit?
15:41<bss>TheJoe: we just care about your data too much
15:41<vblank>i just asked joe to rtfm
15:41<Guspaz|m>TheJoe: People around these parts are generally of the "FTP-is-your-last-resort" type of attitude. It's an increasingly prevalent opinion in the intertubes.
15:42<adj>erikh: saying ftp is shit without considering the environment its being used in is a baseless argument is my point
15:42<erikh>it's not really that the daemons or the protcol has security issues (beyond the lack of encryption), but there's no point
15:42<vblank>Good enough for Big Blue, good enough for me.
15:42<@mikegrb>lolz
15:42<Karrde>lol?
15:42<erikh>vblank: nice.
15:42<erikh>adj: webdav? ssh? any reason either of those wouldn't work?
15:42<Guspaz|m>Big Blue pushes Lotus. Clearly they're experts in everything they do.
15:43<adj>erikh: php doesnt have a stable ssh lib for one.
15:43<adj>erikh: so if you have php apps moving files and don't want to use exec calls, then ftp is much more reliable
15:43<TheJoe><.<
15:43<TheJoe>>.>
15:43<TheJoe>Hmm...
15:43<TheJoe>Mac is better!!
15:43<TheJoe>:)
15:44<azaghal>-.-
15:44<Guspaz|m>Linux distro makers could learn a thing or two from Apple.
15:44<erikh>adj: and http is impossible, because/
15:44<azaghal>iReallyDontLikeApple
15:44<TheJoe>Guspaz has the idea :)
15:44<TheJoe>azaghal kinda has it...
15:44<Guspaz|m>erikh: Because it has too many syllables.
15:44<erikh>I'm assuming php can deal with http
15:44<TheJoe>Keep going
15:44<erikh>Guspaz|m: heh
15:44<adj>erikh: not impossible. just not always want you want
15:45<adj>erikh: why not use the most appropriate tool for the job? i've found that ofter ftp *is* the right choice
15:45-!-v0lksman [~shayne@ottawa-hs-64-26-169-151.s-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:45<Guspaz|m>Real men use Gopher.
15:45<vblank>http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Setting_up_an_FTP_server_on_Debian
15:45<adj>s/ofter/often/
15:45<azaghal>Guspaz|m: You mena concentrate on a single platform that we completely control? ;)
15:45<azaghal>*mean
15:45-!-v0lksman [~shayne@ottawa-hs-64-26-169-151.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #linode
15:45<Guspaz|m>azaghal: No, I mean design user interfaces that aren't complete crap.
15:45<Pryon>that's really hard
15:45<adj>php does http through curl, and while it works. its very erbose and ugly.
15:46*adj can't type today ;)
15:46<Guspaz|m>It's hard, but neither KDE nor Gnome seem to have figured it out.
15:46<azaghal>Guspaz|m: That's Free Software coders then :)
15:46<erikh>ah
15:46<erikh>that's kind of what I was wondering
15:46<Guspaz|m>For example, Gnome decided for some reason that users should not be permitted to change screensaver preferences.
15:46<azaghal>And I'd tend to disagree that it's complete crap. Although, personally, I prefer minimalists DE's now.
15:46<erikh>file transfer not only has to be insecure, but PRETTY
15:46<erikh>as all that crap can't be abstracted
15:46<Guspaz|m>I guess that's technically more user friendly, just removing the configurability entirely...
15:46<adj>erikh: again, i'm asking why its insecure?
15:47<adj>its only insecure if you set it up poorly.
15:47-!-mheld [~mheld@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: mheld]
15:47<erikh>what, over a tunnel?
15:47<erikh>internally?
15:47*azaghal likes the Inkscape's interface
15:47<Guspaz|m>KDE is a convoluted mess that never works right, GNOME is minimalist to the extent that they remove required or useful functionality without the polish to pull off the minamalistic approach.
15:47<Guspaz|m>I like XFCE, but they also don't have the polish.
15:47<erikh>what's the point?
15:47<azaghal>Gnome is so not minimalistic...
15:48<Guspaz|m>azaghal: Tell that to somebody who wants to change the text on the "marquee" screensaver.
15:48<Guspaz|m>Away from the linux kernel version.
15:48<erikh>cute argument, though.
15:48<Pryon>All new user interfaces should look to blender for inspiration
15:48<adj>erikh: looks like i'm not going to convince you that ftp is often the right choice.
15:48<azaghal>I'm still saying it's not minimalistic. As for the Gnome's "hide settings from GUI", I think it's plain stupid.
15:49<erikh>adj: I'm suggesting it's a colossal waste of time
15:49<vblank>use the right tool for the job
15:49<adj>erikh: for your own sake, i suggest you stay familiar with it. you'll eventually run into a case where it makes sense or where a client demands it.
15:49<azaghal>Pryon: There is not unique user interface concept for all applications, though.
15:50<adj>erikh: if you have the luxary of turning away clients or getting fired from your job for refusing to work with things you don't agree with... well, then you are luckkier than me.
15:50<Guspaz|m>Apple has a unified set of guidelines for that. So does Gnome. One thing they got right.
15:50<erikh>adj: apparently I am.
15:50-!-jetlag [~jetlag@muskmellon.jetlag.us] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:50<mwalling>windows does too
15:50<mwalling>no one follows it though
15:50<mwalling>if i jumpped into the conversation i think i jumpped into
15:50<erikh>I also have clients that hire me because I know what I'm talking about, and tend to listen to my advice
15:50<jtatum>adj: ftp is _often_ the right choice? that might be a tough sell for more than just erikh
15:50<adj>jtatum: s/often/sometimes/
15:50<Guspaz|m>mwalling: Because Microsoft completely changes it so often to match the API-of-the-month.
15:50<azaghal>Actually, the main problem, as I see it, is that Free Software projects tend to follow Mac's/Window$' footsteps when it comes down to GUI etc.
15:50<erikh>so when I suggest scp as an alternative, they generally listen
15:51<megatron27>Gnumeric is better than Calc if you're from an Excel background
15:51<erikh>so, you go ahead and make your network harder to maintain
15:51<adj>erikh: you know, its possible to disagree without being condescending.
15:51<mwalling>adj: LIES!
15:51<erikh>oh certainly not. that'd take all the fun out of it
15:52<adj>i guess... well, in that case, i'm just spouting hot air. enjoy your perfect world where clients actually listen to you :P
15:53<Guspaz|m>Clearly the solution is to make yourself the only client.
15:53<adj>TheJoe: i might suggest using vsftpd over proftpd, but just for simplicty of configuration.
15:53<erikh>and enhanced rootability
15:53<adj>TheJoe: and do be sure to secure it properly.
15:53<Guspaz|m>adj: I believe he was already, and people here told him to move to proftpd :P
15:54<Pryon>In any case, the first step when looking for how to set something up is to look to see what the author of the thing has to say about the subject.
15:54<TheJoe>adj: I need the simplicity in setting up extra accounts. vsftpd used the *nix accounts, and I had no idea how to set up a new one to use vsftpd and get permissions and blah de blah
15:54*azaghal liked the pure-ftpd using TLS.
15:54<TheJoe>Proftpd was apparently easier, but all it does is start immature arguments. So I should probably just go back to how I was.
15:54-!-jetlag [~jetlag@muskmellon.jetlag.us] has joined #linode
15:55<azaghal>Bad thing is not many clients support ftps :/
15:55-!-drewr [~drewr@valve.draines.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:55-!-FriendlyPine [~chatzilla@217.218.247.4] has joined #linode
15:55<azaghal>What would be the pro/con argument on pure-ftpd vs proftpd?
15:55<Guspaz|m>1) caek is good
15:55<Guspaz|m>2) but pai is bettar
15:56<zck>ftp server set up for anonymous ftp is insecure ?
15:56<Guspaz|m>longcat is looooooong!
15:56<erikh>yes
15:57<Guspaz|m>anonymous FTP is generally a pretty bad idea; it's probably better to use a web-based solution in this day and age.
15:57<erikh>*ahem*
15:57<zck>what are the alternatives, other than http ?
15:57<Guspaz|m>erik: Sorry, umm, 'i can has ftpburger'
15:57<erikh>Guspaz|m: yes, obviously
15:58<erikh>I wouldn't want to interrupt the cargo cult.
15:58<adj>btw. vsftpd has a MUCH better track record security-wise than proftpd
15:58<rainman`>what would be the best way to force SSL for pages of a certain app, and/or the built-in auth?
15:58<rainman`>oh
15:58<rainman`>E_CHAN
15:59<erikh>adj: that's because proftpd does a hell of a lot more
15:59<Guspaz|m>For anonymous access, other than HTTP or FTP? Can't really think of anything off the top of my head. Shared dropboxes? But I don't think you can really do permission limiting there.
15:59<TheJoe>Ok then I'll rephrase my question. I have here a guy who wants to be able to install his own Wordpress plugins through the ACP (yes, Guspaz|m - that's the WP interface) - therefore I need to be able to easily configure S/FTP/S whatever it's called today so he can have his own account and do it himself blah de blah de blah. Can anyone suggest a good place to start in doing this?
16:00<jetlag>Oh crap, I broke apache2.
16:00<Pryon>is it possible to do permissoin *anything* for an anonymous enitity?
16:00<Pryon>also spelling fail
16:01<zck>you could limit based on IP address ;D
16:02<erikh>TheJoe: he needs to edit the files on the server directly?
16:02<erikh>(edit == upload for the purposes of this discussion)
16:02<TheJoe>erikh: Just be able to search for a plugin in the Wordpress admincp and hit the word "install", enter his S/FTP/S or whatever details.
16:02<TheJoe>But yes. I suppose to do that he would have to be able to edit server files directly
16:03<erikh>ahh, wordpress does the transferring
16:03<TheJoe>His website is a lighttpd simple vhost btw.
16:03<TheJoe> /var/www/domain/html
16:03-!-Magi [~Magistrat@office.vivisimo.com] has joined #linode
16:03<TheJoe>erikh: Yes it does, but he has to have S/FTP/S access.
16:04-!-drewr [~drew@adsl-065-013-142-013.sip.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #linode
16:04<erikh>and you say it can handle sftp?
16:04<erikh>(just clarifying)
16:04<drewr>any idea why my linode powered itself off?
16:04<TheJoe>The options here are FTP and FTPS
16:05<drewr>does this happen to anyone else?
16:05<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: atlanta89 in System and Network Status <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4660>
16:05<TheJoe>At the same time, I'd like to be able to have full access to the rest of the stuff.
16:05<Pryon>drewr: are you on atlanta89?
16:05<drewr>ah, yes, I believe I am
16:06<erikh>TheJoe: see, something that's not adding up, and maybe it's just because I've not used WP in a while, is that I remember having to copy the plugins onto the filesystem then enable them
16:06<erikh>not suggesting that you're incorrect as much as suggesting you may have alternatives here
16:06<drewr>Pryon: does that happen frequently? (I'm a new customer...)
16:06<TheJoe>erikh: There's a lovely new inline installation/search feature
16:06-!-drewr_ [~drewr@valve.draines.com] has joined #linode
16:06<erikh>but he needs authenticated access to the WP servers?
16:06<erikh>or your server? I guess that's what I don't understand.
16:06<TheJoe>No, to my server.
16:06-!-drewr [~drew@adsl-065-013-142-013.sip.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit []
16:06<TheJoe>Yes
16:06<erikh>can he do it without authentication?
16:06<Pryon>drewr: it has happened to me once in about 3 years. Generally it's only for xen bugs that get triggered or hardware failures
16:06<TheJoe>He needs FTP access on *my* server
16:07<TheJoe>And no he can't
16:07-!-drewr_ is now known as drewr
16:07<adj>TheJoe: just give him ftp access =)
16:07<drewr>Pryon: k, thanks
16:07<TheJoe>adj: Doing that with my previous setting would give him my whole damn account
16:07<TheJoe>(vsftpd)
16:08<Magi>Has there been any news as to when the Managed Backup system will be coming out of beta?
16:08<adj>TheJoe: so configure vsftpd right ;)
16:08<adj>TheJoe: hand over the access to him, and move on to the next task.
16:09<TheJoe>That was one of the pointers I was looking for, before I was told to use proftpd instead and then shoved against a wall and punched in the bollocks about.
16:09<Pryon>Magi: no announcements have been makde
16:09<Pryon>s/k//
16:10<adj>TheJoe: give him a shell account. set shell to /sbin/nologin. chroot the user in vsftpd. done.
16:11-!-PPTP [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
16:11<jetlag>Oh great I broke php5
16:11<PPTP>Hi all. I've just installed PPTP on my ubuntu linode slice and have questions regarding installation (I'm following: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=132029)
16:11<PPTP>how do I determine my local and remote ip?
16:11<adj>TheJoe: yeah. the whole don't use ftp thing is a common theme on forums/irc. usually its because people have been told ftp is insecure or that sftp/scp is better. in addition, most of these people arent making a living dealing with clients and their (often) rediculous demands.
16:12<adj>TheJoe: so, my advice, use what works. but be aware of its limitations and caveats. and never treat *anything* as secure.
16:12<TheJoe>adj: If I'm honest, it just sounded to me like the whole "VISTA IS CRAP" argument. Which is all BS. I have little patience for such arguments.
16:13<erikh>TheJoe: the plugins can still be manually installed.. is this going to be happening often?
16:13<TheJoe>But thank you - I'll go along with your pointers.
16:13<Guspaz|m>I ran Vista for quite a while, and was quite happy with it...
16:13<TheJoe>Guspaz|m: So was I
16:13<Guspaz|m>Now I run 7. It's quite nice.
16:13<TheJoe>I too run 7, I love it.
16:13<erikh>the wireless issues in vista are pretty annoying
16:13<erikh>and the indexer.
16:14<Guspaz|m>I had far less wireless issues in Vista than I ever did with Ubuntu.
16:14<erikh>oh, and UAC.
16:14<TheJoe>erikh: The process to connect to a network is a PITA yeah.
16:14<TheJoe>Indexer and UAC can be disabled easier
16:14<TheJoe>* easily
16:14<Guspaz|m>And I turned off both UAC and all the indexing type stuff.
16:14<TheJoe>So they're not real problems
16:14<zck>UAC is a bit less annoying in 7, thankfully
16:14<Guspaz|m>SuperFetch and MegaBoost or whatever they call it.
16:14<erikh>Guspaz|m: vista polls (if you're connected or not) every 30 seconds the region for wireless networks, which can cause significant lag
16:15<erikh>feel free to google it, the solution is to use a hack and install windows xp drivers
16:15<Guspaz|m>Windows 7 doesn't seem to require me to disable those services, but I also got an Intel SSD about the same time as Windows 7, so it's hard to tell where speedups are coming from.
16:15<PPTP>Hi all. I've just installed PPTP on my ubuntu linode slice and have questions regarding installation (I'm following: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=132029). how do I determine my local and remote IP?
16:15<erikh>(or obviously, use a wired network)
16:15<jetlag>hmmm... note to self, turn off eaccelerator before upgrading apache
16:15<TheJoe>Also all you Twitter users - @MSWindows are giving out free copies of 7 just if you follow them.
16:15<Guspaz|m>Coincidentally, I agree with Anand: a good SSD is the single largest upgrade you can make to your computer.
16:16<straterra>TheJoe: Ultimate?
16:16<Guspaz|m>Unfortunately it's still rather pricey.
16:16<TheJoe>straterra: Not sure what edition - most likely Home Premium
16:16<straterra>Psh, useless
16:16<Guspaz|m>Windows 7 brings back Pro, which is good again.
16:17<straterra>Vista had business..
16:17<TheJoe>straterra: It'll either be Home Premium or Professional. Those are their "PR Versions"
16:17<straterra>"Pro" never really left
16:17<erikh>i guess I get a free copy with my laptop
16:17<Guspaz|m>straterra: Where did it go for Vista?
16:17<straterra>Guspaz|m: Business
16:17<TheJoe>Guspaz|m: Conversely, Professional is just Ultimate without the ability to switch languages as easy as Desktop themes or portable BitLocker
16:17<TheJoe>Honestly, I think the language switcher is a stupid feature to leave out of all the other editions
16:18<Guspaz|m>TheJoe: Which is fine by me.
16:18-!-dzjepp [~menace2s@adsl-76-239-23-101.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
16:18<TheJoe>In fact
16:18<TheJoe>Editions as a whole are a pathetic idea
16:18<zck>i think having multiple SKUs for windows is dumb of them
16:18<Guspaz|m>straterra: Business wasn't Pro. It was missing WMC.
16:18<TheJoe>^
16:18*azaghal reads up to see if the flames had extinguished
16:18<zck>you have your windows workstation for all you home users, and windows server, leave it at that
16:19<straterra>Uhm..Business WAS Pro
16:19<Guspaz|m>straterra: Again, Business was missing WMC. It was a downgrade for the home user.
16:19<straterra>Why is Media Center needed on a Pro/Business machine?
16:19<straterra>Home user..
16:19<straterra>Logic dictates that a home user should use..*gasp*.. Home edition!
16:19<Guspaz|m>Windows 7 Pro, on the other hand, *DOES* have WMC.
16:20<TheJoe>azaghal: Yeah they're gone - adj was even helpful in the end
16:20<straterra>If I had a dollar for every time I used or saw someone use WMC..I'd have the same ammount of cash
16:20<erikh>anything new? WMC is the only thing I really use windows for (well, other than hosting virtualbox)
16:20-!-PPTP [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:21<Guspaz|m>straterra: Just because you don't use something doesn't mean that others don't.
16:21<azaghal>Hm... No comments on pure-ftpd?
16:21<straterra>It's a HOME feature..thats why it was in Home and not Business
16:21<straterra>And if its that big of a deal, you could get Ultimate
16:21<azaghal>Are you people discussing the crippleware?
16:21<Guspaz|m>And pro is for home power users. And ultimate cost like $600
16:21<TheJoe>azaghal: There was a few - but please don't feed the fire
16:21<straterra>$600? Since when?
16:22<straterra>Are you in australia?
16:22<Guspaz|m>Canada. Was it $400?
16:22<TheJoe>Just don't mention the "F" acryonym
16:22-!-johndbritton [~john@ool-4574433a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #linode
16:22<Guspaz|m>Might have been $400
16:22<straterra>Ultimate never cost $600 USD
16:22<straterra>Ever
16:22<TheJoe>£180 over here
16:22<TheJoe>That's like £170 too much
16:22<@mikegrb>lolz
16:22<azaghal>TheJoe: lol - I actually was hoping people make rational arguments :)
16:22<erikh>heh
16:22<Guspaz|m>Windows 7 Pro costs $200 USD for upgrade. Windows Vista Business cost $299 at launch, I believe?
16:22<erikh>we were, but they were being written off as folly.
16:23<straterra>Maybe retail..I'd imagine most Pro/Business users don't pay anything close to retail prices
16:23<Guspaz|m>Then again, you can get Vista Business pretty cheap for an upgrade copy.
16:23<erikh>pay... for windows?
16:23<Guspaz|m>Or OEM.
16:23*azaghal can't wait for the "Pay more buck to have normal HD driver OS from M$" :)
16:23<Guspaz|m>I paid the 50% off upgrade deal.
16:23<Guspaz|m>Windows 7 Pro for $129 CAD
16:23<straterra>I won't be buying the Win7 upgrade
16:23<straterra>It offers nothing that Vista doesn't for me
16:24<Pryon>WIll they upgrade from win2k at that price? :-)
16:24<straterra>I still find the whole "ZOMG Win7 uses so much less memory and is so much faster than Vista" thing to be bs
16:24<Guspaz|m>My copy of Vista is Dell-specific, and in-use; my desktop has no windows license at all. I've got a valid XP Pro license that I can upgrade from, but right now it's running Windows 7 RC.
16:24<Guspaz|m>So I sort of do need a new OS.
16:24-!-Turl [~Turl@host158.190-31-30.telecom.net.ar] has joined #linode
16:24<erikh>haven't used it yet, but I get a free copy, so I might as well
16:24<Guspaz|m>(Dell laptop specific, and in use)
16:25-!-mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-142-112.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #linode
16:25<Guspaz|m>If you have an SSD, you really should use 7 over vista. Otherwise, it can be more of a personal preference thing.
16:26<erikh>what does win7 do to SSD's that vista won't?
16:26<Guspaz|m>Supports TRIM (huge benefit), disables auto defrag, formats SSDs differently to align pages.
16:26<erikh>ah; neat
16:26<Guspaz|m>The middle one can be done manually.
16:27<zck>windows memory usage is nothing to be concerned about. In all recent versions, the more memory it sees, the more it's gonna use
16:27<Guspaz|m>You can probably manually do TRIM runs on SSDs under Vista, but that's not ideal.
16:27<zck>due to stuff like superfetch, etc
16:28-!-Turl [~Turl@host158.190-31-30.telecom.net.ar] has quit []
16:28<Pryon>unused memory is wasted memory
16:28<Pryon>and other pithy sayings
16:28<Guspaz|m>Hmm, what else did 7 add... Was it Vista or 7 that got per-application audio stuff? I think that was Vista.
16:29<zck>vista
16:29<Guspaz|m>The window manager in 7 got a nice performance boost, moved to DX 10.1 if supported. Built-in decoding support for h.264 and other formats, although most of us just use ffdshow.
16:29<zck>windows 7 basically refines the UI a lot more, and has a new taskbar similar to mac
16:29<Guspaz|m>Uses less power, you probably don't care if you don't use a laptop.
16:30<Guspaz|m>Calculator is better now :P
16:30<Guspaz|m>I can't think of much else.
16:30<Guspaz|m>Other than the "it's faster" bit.
16:30<zck>little UI enhancements, like when selecting your screen resolution, it highlights what resolutions will use your monitor's native aspect ratio
16:31<Guspaz|m>Well, I'm ignoring UI changes.
16:31<Guspaz|m>There are lots that I like. Aero Peek is nice.
16:31<Guspaz|m>Biggest peeve: 7 removes the classic (2K and below) style start menu
16:32-!-westside [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
16:32<Pryon>and the random naked steve ballmer picture popups
16:32<Guspaz|m>I also miss the network activity blinkenlights.
16:32<azaghal>Pryon: Ewwww
16:32<TheJoe>Guspaz|m: I expected at least an XP theme!
16:32<westside>how do i get the local IP of eth0?
16:32<Guspaz|m>Pryon: You get used to those.
16:32<azaghal>Pryon: Does he jump up and down like a monkey? ;)
16:32<westside>i am running ubuntu LTS
16:32<JoeK>http://p.linode.com/3008
16:32<JoeK>anybody know why that fails?
16:32<azaghal>westside: ifconfig eth0
16:32<JoeK>this is right off of a clean install
16:33<westside>thnks azaghal
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16:33-!-PPTP_Noob [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
16:33<erikh>JoeK: any luck with apt-get update?
16:33<zck>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_7#Core_operating_system
16:34<Guspaz|m>JoeK: Try a different mirror?
16:34<JoeK>that was apt-get update erikh
16:34<TheJoe>adj: Going with your solution, how would I go about chrooting? I'm not entirely savvy with FTP as a whole...
16:34<erikh>alternatively, you can install the GPG verification manually
16:34<PPTP_Noob>How everyone. Does anyone know how to determine localip (it's part of /etc/pptpd.conf)
16:34<Pryon>JoeK: does apt-get install debian-keyring help?
16:34<azaghal>JoeK: Well, the key is apparently different one, but... :/
16:34<JoeK>westside, welcome back
16:34<JoeK>i dont see why the mirrors im using are slow as heck too
16:35<erikh>JoeK: you likely need to download this and install it
16:35<erikh>http://packages.debian.org/lenny/debian-keyring
16:35<erikh>JoeK: that's because they're in geramny
16:35<erikh>err, germany
16:35<JoeK>downloading now via apt-get
16:35<erikh>you may not be able to install it via apt-get
16:35<JoeK>does anybody know of a good speedtest i can use with apt-get?
16:35<erikh>you have to bootstrap it
16:35<Pryon>ah
16:35<azaghal>JoeK: Wget ubuntu cd? ;)
16:35<JoeK>D:
16:35<azaghal>Or you mean repos?
16:36<Pryon>kernel source
16:36<JoeK>just 100mbtest.bin's
16:36<JoeK>i remember one being posted here
16:36<adj>JoeK: iperf
16:36<JoeK>only downloading @ 117 off ofthis de mirror >.>
16:36<JoeK>kb/s this is
16:36<JoeK>keyring was installed
16:36<erikh>http://www.debian.org/mirror/list
16:36<Guspaz|m>JoeK: netselect.
16:36<erikh>JoeK: yes, it needs to be updated
16:37<Guspaz|m>netselect should be available in the debian repository.
16:37<Guspaz|m>It will test all the mirrors very fast.
16:37<erikh>ah; neat
16:37<Guspaz|m>Written by a former coworker of mine too :P
16:37<JoeK>how do i use netselect(dosent look like a command)
16:37<erikh>either way, you're probably not going to get very far unless you have the updated keyright
16:37<erikh>keyring
16:37<Guspaz|m>Need to install netselect-apt.
16:37<JoeK>and do i need to reboot for the keyring to work?
16:37<erikh>no
16:37<erikh>you need to download it manually and dpkg -i it as root
16:38<JoeK>looks like it installed properly via apt-get though
16:38<Guspaz|m>http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names&keywords=netselect-apt
16:38<JoeK>Guspaz|m, worked via apt-get
16:38<JoeK>:p
16:38<erikh>oh, so your keyring is working
16:38<JoeK>cant update still
16:38<JoeK>but i can install
16:39<erikh>try switching mirrors
16:39<JoeK>how?? -.-
16:39<Guspaz|m>netselect works extremely fast, even on a list of thousands of servers. It's neat.
16:39<JoeK>Guspaz|m, syntax to use netselect?
16:39<JoeK>looks a bit confusing for my level
16:39<JoeK>Usage: netselect [-v|-vv|-vvv] [-m max_ttl] [-s servers] [-t min_tries] host ...
16:39<Karrde>I just use MIT's Debian mirror from newark :D
16:39<Guspaz|m>You don't use netselect directly for that
16:39<Guspaz|m>http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2007/05/using-netselect-apt-tip-to-select.html
16:39-!-PPTP_Noob [~90c6b60a@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:40<JoeK>ah, append -apt :p
16:40<Guspaz|m>Although not necessarily "etch". I'm not that familiar with the debian versions and such.
16:40<Guspaz|m>I'm an Ubuntu Server user myself.
16:40-!-Twayne [~waynemilt@cpe-071-070-201-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:40<Magi><3 my fastestmirror plugin for yum.
16:40*azaghal <3 Linode Console
16:41<JoeK>putty <3
16:41*Guspaz|m has many bad memories of yum from post-RH RH9
16:42<azaghal>What in the world is warning: `apache2' uses 32-bit capabilities (legacy support in use) ? o.O
16:42<Guspaz|m>You installed a 32-bit version of apache on a 64-bit OS?
16:43<Guspaz|m>I'd argue you shouldn't be using either a 64-bit OS, or Apache, but to each his own :P
16:43<azaghal> lenin.majic.rs 2.6.26-2-xen-686
16:43<JoeK>The fastest server seems to be:
16:43<JoeK> http://ftp.grokthis.net/debian/
16:43<JoeK>O.o
16:43<azaghal>So it's weird...
16:43<azaghal>It shouldn't _be_ 32-bit.
16:43<JoeK>its still using the de mirror
16:43<Guspaz|m>JoeK: You need to replace the sources.list and then do an 'apt-get update'
16:43<Pryon>JoeK: did you modify /etc/apt/sources.list?
16:44<JoeK>i thought the app did that
16:44<JoeK>http://p.linode.com/3009
16:44<Guspaz|m>http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2007/05/using-netselect-apt-tip-to-select.html
16:44<Guspaz|m>It writes it, but I believe to the current directory.
16:44<Guspaz|m>So you'd need to overwrite the system one yourself.
16:44<JoeK>indeed it does
16:45<JoeK>mv'ed :)
16:45<azaghal>This is crazy. I'm 100% sure I installed 32-bit Debian here.
16:46<JoeK>azaghal, uname -a
16:46<azaghal>JoeK: Checked it already - Linux lenin.majic.rs 2.6.26-2-xen-686 #1 SMP Wed Aug 19 08:47:57 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
16:46<JoeK>o
16:46<JoeK>i still have that apt-get issue
16:46<JoeK>:(
16:46<azaghal>Maybe it's a Xen quirk or something?
16:47-!-Paul_ [~Paul@genkt-048-032.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #linode
16:47<linbot>New news from forums: Holes in the usage stats graphs? in General Discussion <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4661>
16:47<Guspaz|m>I haven't had that problem on my linode, although I'm using aptitude on ubuntu.
16:47<erikh>i don't have that problem with apt-get
16:48<erikh>under xen, virtualbox, on bare harware
16:48<TheJoe>http://www.howtoforge.com/vsftpd_mysql_debian_etch Now that looks like my thing
16:48<erikh>if you can't update, you won't get the latest version of the keyring
16:48<erikh>you'll get the last one the database knows about
16:48<erikh>you have to: go to the website, download the debian-keyring deb, and dpkg -i it
16:48<path>azaghal: that is 32bit
16:48<azaghal>path: I know it is.
16:49<path>you don't want that?
16:49<azaghal>No, I'm wondering why I got the apache warning message.
16:49<Guspaz|m>azaghal: In general, you can't simply install a 32-bit package on a 64-bit distro.
16:49<mwalling>its not from apache
16:49<azaghal>Ahem...
16:49<azaghal>I installed 32-bit Debian on Linode. I used apt-get to install apache.
16:49<Guspaz|m>Oh.
16:50<Karrde>JoeK: gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key 9AA38DCD55BE302B ; gpg -a --export 9AA38DCD55BE302B | sudo apt-key add -
16:50<JoeK>o.O
16:51<Karrde>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NO_PUBKEY+9AA38DCD55BE302B
16:51<Karrde>then apt-get update
16:51-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@genkt-048-032.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51<Magi>Seems simple enough.
16:54<JoeK>http://p.linode.com/3010
16:54<JoeK>talk about fast
16:54-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@124.13.65.178] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:54<Guspaz|m>JoeK: Didn't I say netselect was neat? :)
16:54-!-jas4711 [~jas@c80-216-24-211.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #linode
16:54<JoeK>that wasent the recommend mirror it selected
16:54<Guspaz|m>Wait, that's just the keyring :P
16:55<JoeK>6517B/s, how fast is that? :s
16:55<JoeK>in kb/s
16:55<Karrde>about 6.517KB/s
16:55<JoeK>:s
16:55<erikh>heh
16:56<Karrde>or if you really want kbps.. 52
16:56<JoeK>keyring failed erikh
16:56<JoeK>when installing manually
16:56<JoeK>still same apt-get update error
16:56<Karrde>JoeK: gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key 9AA38DCD55BE302B ; gpg -a --export 9AA38DCD55BE302B | sudo apt-key add -
16:56<Karrde>then apt-get update
16:56<erikh>use Karrde's add line
16:57<adj>grrr. godaddy sucks.
16:57<adj>i cannot log into my domain manager. and havent been able to all day...
16:57-!-vuf [~am@77.75.167.238] has joined #linode
16:57<erikh>i always liked opensrs's interface
16:58<adj>name.com is decent also, i think
16:58<JoeK>http://p.linode.com/3011
16:58<linbot>New news from forums: PPTP Problem in Linux Networking <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3096>
16:58<erikh>register's isn't bad either, but opensrs's is really straightforward
16:58<JoeK>this thing refuses to work
16:58<adj>godaddy is the worst :(
16:58<erikh>yeah.
16:58<erikh>well, register.com probably is close.
16:58<adj>i'd love to be able to transfer all these domains out
16:58<adj>directnic is manageable too
16:59<Karrde>-bash: sudo: command not found
16:59<Karrde>you're root - remove the "sudo" and rerun
16:59-!-dzjepp [~menace2s@adsl-76-239-23-101.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit []
16:59<JoeK>ah
17:00<JoeK>i should pay attention more
17:06-!-kupesoft [~dave@CPE00131093f698-CM0012c9ab566c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #linode
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17:10<TheJoe>Ok so I'm using vsftpd with MySQL for authentification - once again, despite having the right password, it's "wrong"
17:10<TheJoe>response:331 Please specify the password.
17:11<vblank>sounds broken
17:11<TheJoe>Yeah
17:11<TheJoe>No shit.
17:12<vblank>so you didn't set it up right. start over.
17:12<vblank>next!
17:12<TheJoe>Oh ffs
17:17-!-laser` [~laser@dyn244136.shef.ac.uk] has joined #linode
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17:20<silverblade>heh i got a response from slicehost after i reported the ssh login attempts from one of their customers
17:20<Guspaz|m>Oh?
17:21<silverblade>"Thank you for letting us know. We will investigate and act accordingly."
17:22<TheJoe>Yeah so
17:22<TheJoe>Login incorrect, even though it's right.
17:22<Magi>Translation: @(#* off.
17:22<Guspaz|m>TheJoe: Is there any sort of log/profiler to see what's actually hitting the MySQL server?
17:22<TheJoe>Guspaz|m: I'll check
17:23<TheJoe>My mysql logs are empty >.<
17:23<vblank>looks like someobody had a simmilar problem and added BINARY to the username field and it helped them
17:24-!-zack [~zack@c-98-210-109-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
17:24<zack>ping dfinnerty
17:24<mwalling>!ops
17:24<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community.
17:24<mwalling>!community
17:24<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
17:24<silverblade>!zombies
17:24<mwalling>!urmom is a zombie
17:24<linbot>mwalling: Yo momma's so dumb, shampoo instructions put her in an infinite loop! (806:0/5) [mmuor]
17:24<silverblade>hahahahahahahahah
17:24<silverblade>genius
17:25<TheJoe>vblank: Nah that didnt do it
17:25<vblank> firewall isn't blocking connections to mysql?
17:26<vblank>do you see any active connections (vsftpd) to the mysql server?
17:26<TheJoe>I highly doubt that, since everything else works
17:26<adj>ddos's suck
17:26<Guspaz|m>adj: Are you being?
17:26<adj>Guspaz|m: been fighting it all day
17:26<adj>not on linode though
17:27<adj>the jackass is slowloris'ing all my app nodes
17:27-!-FriendlyPine [~chatzilla@217.218.247.4] has left #linode []
17:27<daMaestro>caker, dfinnerty irgeek jed mikegrb pparadis tasaro tychoish hey guys, i've got a question about your xen layer with regards to what networking configs you guys are using. i'm using my linode to diag some things with our internet transit and would like to know some details of what i can actually put on the wire (aka 100mbit or 1GigE and what the host/distribution switche(s) are and what the provider uplink rate/duplex is to our peer with you guys)
17:28<Guspaz|m>Good thing too, Linode isn't very tolerant towards DDOS attacks.
17:29<straterra>daMaestro: its gigabit..but they have a two gigabit uplink to the provider
17:29<Guspaz|m>I thought linodes were capped at 50mbit?
17:29<straterra>You can lift it.
17:29<daMaestro>i'm asking more what my guest can do, i expected GigE to the hypervisor and at least as much to their upstream (we actually have our AS announced *in* the DC)
17:30<Guspaz|m>And wouldn't it be dependent on the DC? ThePlanet, for example, has obscene amounts of bandwidth.
17:30<straterra>I know the hardware has gigabit cards in it too
17:30<@caker>daMaestro: we limit outbound to 50mbit. You can't spoof mac/arp or ip
17:30<straterra>all guests share the same nic
17:30<@caker>daMaestro: other than that -- go for it.
17:30<daMaestro>caker, and what about inbound?
17:30<@caker>you can't limit inbound
17:30<daMaestro>caker, we are actually testing bits *from* our loadbalancer
17:30-!-kenichi [~kenichi@207.162.220.10] has quit [Quit: kenichi]
17:30<straterra>caker: why can't you?
17:30<TheJoe>Guspaz|m: No indication in the logs at all on what could have done this
17:30<daMaestro>caker, yes.. i'm asking if i could get GigE?
17:31<straterra>You can limit inbound by limiting outbound from the border gateway
17:31-!-brokentux [~tanderson@users.llmhq.com] has joined #linode
17:31<TheJoe>Unless it's the encryption
17:31<TheJoe>This is just PASSWORD('password'));
17:31-!-vblank [~ecron@li-50.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?]
17:31<adj>Guspaz|m: this DC has multiple gigE peers. i have 10 app nodes sitting behind two hardware loadbalancers
17:32<adj>im hitting cpu limits due to prefork
17:32<straterra>daMaestro: To your node? You could..but not likely
17:32<straterra>You share the gigabit NIC with every other person on that box
17:32<@caker>daMaestro: I dunno -- can you?
17:32<adj>unfortunately i can't just switch to nginx, or MPM without vetting the change extensively before the switch
17:32<Guspaz|m>adj: I'll just shudder grumbling "Apache" and "Lighttpd"
17:32<daMaestro>straterra, yes.. but theoretically (aka.. the virtual interface is not 100mbit)
17:33<@caker>it's not something I can really answer. Is the potential there? Sure -- but are you likely to get that amount of speed between us and you ... who knows
17:33<Guspaz|m>adj: A project for the future, then.
17:33<straterra>Theoretically, if no one else is using any network traffic...yes
17:33<daMaestro>caker, i was just asking about your hypervisor setup and physical networking setup. thanks for the good information.
17:33<adj>Guspaz|m: absolutely. i have plenty of nginx setups out there and a few lighty's. but the devs at this location are so familiar wtih LAMP there isn't much i can do
17:34<brokentux>Has anyone ran lighttpd with individual php fastcgi's for each user on a 360? If so how many users could run on the 360 with out hurting performance (I realize the answer would depend on what each user was running)
17:34<daMaestro>caker, sorry to bug you, just wanted to be sure; it's likely an issue with our LB :-/
17:34<Guspaz|m>adj: Not that I've noticed that much of a difference having moved from Apache to Lighty from a programming perspective...
17:34<mwalling>brokentux: i've considered it, does that count?
17:35<Guspaz|m>brokentux: Do you really need to?
17:35<adj>Guspaz|m: mod_php to fcgi shouldnt cause any issues. but its not something i can switch as the drop of a hat.
17:35<adj>s/as/at
17:35<mwalling>Guspaz|m: my motive was to go for something like suexec
17:35<Guspaz|m>adj: As I said, a good project for the future :)
17:35<azaghal>I'm using something called mod_ruid based on friend's advice here.
17:36<azaghal>Although, just two users. One user running Drupal + Gallery2 and one running Drupal.
17:37<brokentux>member:Guspaz|m: I don't need to at the moment since I'm the only one that uploads files to my nodes, but I'm want my setup to be secure and scalable down the road if I started hosting someones site and they wanted to maintain it
17:39<vuf>azaghal: good experience with mod_ruid?
17:39<azaghal>Well, as I said, I mostly based it on trust in my friend :)
17:39<azaghal>It's a real simple code, though.
17:39<azaghal>*really
17:40<azaghal>It uses some kind of posix extensions, if I got it right.
17:40<azaghal>He had only one problem with heavy load (something like configuration not being read in time etc), but they patched that, and I got the modified version from him.
17:40<Guspaz|m>brokentux: Generally, it's a bad idea to have long-running scripts on a web server.
17:40<azaghal>It's very easy to use, btw,
17:41<vuf>azaghal: I was looking for something like that, never found it
17:41<azaghal>vuf: You mean you couldn't find mod_ruid, or something like mod_ruid?
17:42<vuf>azaghal: something like it
17:42<azaghal>vuf: The only issue I _might_ have is that I haven't seen it widely used. But, as I said, I trust my friend - and one of these days I might get around to reading the code ;)
17:42<brokentux>Guspaz|m: Is it bad because the processes will use memory even when not doing anything and may not release memory properly (ie memory leaks, etc)?
17:42<azaghal>399 lines of code.
17:43<vuf>azaghal: I use my own suexec so it probably cannot get worse than that
17:44<Guspaz|m>Well, more because every client will be consuming a very large amount of memory. Instead of having, say, 6 PHP processes to handle hundreds of clients, you'd need hundreds of PHP processes.
17:44-!-Magi is now known as Magi_
17:45<azaghal>Night, people ;)
17:47-!-kenichi [~kenichi@207.162.220.10] has joined #linode
17:47<vuf>my fingers will never learn that it's httpd at work and apache2 at home ...
17:48<brokentux>Guspaz|m: That makes sense. My hope each client having their own set of php processes was to prevent one client from reading other clients files through malicous php scripts (If i understand it correctly using a shared php process means that it can read everyones php and include files). What do others do for securing PHP with lighttpd?
17:49<Guspaz|m>I don't bother, since it's a personal box rather than a shared box.
17:50-!-zack [~zack@c-98-210-109-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zack]
17:51-!-jjolly [~a007f6ec@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
17:51<jjolly>Hi al
17:51<straterra>tag
17:51<jjolly>s/al/all/
17:51<SelfishMan>Anyone use a private whois service?
17:51<straterra>what do you mean private whois?
17:52<SelfishMan>anonymous whois stuff
17:52<SelfishMan>like whoisguard
17:52<straterra>Oooh, I do
17:52<jjolly>Is the use of a TUN device (such as for an OpenVPN client) available on a Linode?
17:52<Battousai>the kind that use their own generic addresses for the domain contacts
17:52<mwalling>jjolly: yes
17:52<SelfishMan>straterra: which one?
17:52<straterra>SelfishMan: the one that comes with 1&1
17:52<mwalling>jjolly: you'll probably need to mknod it
17:52<straterra>mwalling: I didnt have to :P
17:52<Battousai>i use namecheap's
17:52<SelfishMan>straterra: domain?
17:53<straterra>Openvpn handles creating the device
17:53<straterra>SelfishMan: fuhell.com projectstfu.com
17:53-!-Redgore [~redgore@94-193-27-221.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Peace and Protection 4.22.2]
17:53<Peng_>SelfishMan: Why do you ask?
17:53<adj>Guspaz|m: hah. slowloris seems to be snuffed out by setting the timeout very low for prefork PIDs
17:53<SelfishMan>Peng_: looking for other options
17:54<adj>coupled with mod_evasive to close off connections from the fastest nodes in the botnet ;)
17:54<straterra>SelfishMan: I like 1&1..cheapest I've found, decent support, and that free anonymizing thing..and other stuff
17:54<straterra>Only thing I don't like is they don't have ipv6 glue yet..but..not many registrars do
17:54<SelfishMan>nodaddy does
17:54<straterra>Yeah..but..then you have to worry about them selling your email addy
17:54<straterra>and other bullshit
17:55<jjolly>straterra: I am getting an error : 'Linux ip link set failed: shell command exited with error status: 2' just after it attempts to create the ip device.
17:55<straterra>jjolly: whats the command used to create the device?
17:55<SelfishMan>straterra: they don't sell your email address. Just ask the guy that works at godaddy that called me and yelled at me for tweeting that they do
17:55<jjolly>straterra: '/bin/ip link set dev tun0 up mtu 1500'
17:55<straterra>SelfishMan: heh..they actuallyed called?
17:55<SelfishMan>yep
17:56<straterra>jjolly: openvpn has scripts that handle creating the node before bringing it up..
17:56<straterra>Well..in sane distros
17:56<jjolly>OpenSUSE 11.1 - it's probably expecting dbus to do the work.
17:56-!-litwol|mac [~litwol@12.15.121.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:57<mwalling>jjolly: does the tunnel device exist?
17:57<straterra>let me find the openvpn command
17:57<jjolly>straterra: no, it does not exist.
17:58<Peng_>SelfishMan: I use private whois, from DreamHost and NearlyFreeSpeech.net. It's free at the former; the latter charges $0.01 a day or somesuch.
17:58<Peng_>No IPv6 glue, though. Gaaah.
17:58<straterra>openvpn --mktun --dev tun0
17:58<mwalling>Peng_: oh god, your epenis is 2 um shorter
17:59<straterra>Also.. http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/OpenVPN
17:59<SelfishMan>Peng_: domain examples?
18:00<Peng_>SelfishMan: mattnordhoff.com, slacknode.com. DH has since changed the exact details they use.
18:00<SelfishMan>some of them "leak" info still
18:00<Peng_>SelfishMan: Leak how?
18:00<straterra>SelfishMan: did mine leak info?
18:01<SelfishMan>nah
18:02<SelfishMan>some just base64 encode the actual contact email address and then append @urmoms-whois.com
18:02<Peng_>Ah.
18:02<Peng_>Eh, you can get my email address anywhere anyway.
18:03<SelfishMan>some use md5 hashes which is better
18:03-!-jjolly [~a007f6ec@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:03<Peng_>I wonder why they do that?
18:03<SelfishMan>I can't remember which one but I found one that base64 encodes the mailing address and uses that as the contact email address
18:03<Peng_>Using the domain makes more sense than an MD5 hash, and it's equally complicated on the backend.
18:03<Peng_>Though IDN could be an issue...
18:05<SelfishMan>Peng_: is slacknode with nearlyfreespeech.net?
18:05<Peng_>SelfishMan: Uh-huh.
18:05<Peng_>Apparently they outsource.
18:05<SelfishMan>hmm
18:07-!-neekers [~neekers@67-40-0-203.tukw.qwest.net] has quit []
18:08<vuf>now I configured apache to serve out the php source rather than interpret it
18:08<Peng_>FYI, at NFSN, glue is manual (file a support ticket) and costs like $1. And is IPv4-only. I don't think DH does it at all.
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18:19<inkmesh>hi there
18:19<mwalling>!hi
18:20<mwalling>bah, need a factoid for that
18:20<inkmesh>question - I've been trying to transfer a large file to my linode
18:20<inkmesh>but the connection keeps getting reset
18:20<mwalling>!mtr
18:20<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ or http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/ for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark or dallas.
18:20<straterra>Maybe your ISP sucks :P
18:20-!-A-KO [as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:20-!-A-KO^ is now known as A-KO
18:20<inkmesh>:-) that's probably it, but what's the best way to transfer a 1.5GB file? I'm using SCP.
18:21<vuf>rsync
18:21<mwalling>thats probably the best way
18:21<mwalling>or rsync+ssh
18:21<Toba>use -c blowfish
18:21-!-lesouvage [~chatzilla@82.73.69.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:22<Toba>way faster
18:22<vuf>with the right options, rsync wil append to partial files rather than starting over
18:22<inkmesh>cool, I'm going to try rsync. Toba - what's blowfish?
18:23<inkmesh>oh - nm.
18:23<inkmesh>found blowfish docs
18:23<Toba>see it's like this
18:23<Toba>you go to the ocea
18:23<Toba>n
18:23<Toba>find a fish, and you blow it
18:23<inkmesh>anyway, thanks guys. will try both rsync + scp+blowfish
18:23<Peng_>Shouldn't rsync always append to partial files? I mean, syncing different files is the point of rsync.
18:24<mwalling>... blowfish isnt a transfer protocol
18:24<inkmesh>got it - will use the blowfish option. god I hate sounding like a noob.
18:24<Peng_>inkmesh: Blowfish is the encryption method. It's faster than the default.
18:24<Toba>yes.
18:24<Peng_>Plus it has a cool name.
18:25<Toba>I'm in it for the cool name
18:25<inkmesh>cool - thanks fellas.
18:25<Toba>cool story bro
18:25<HoopyCat>the bottleneck, of course, probably isn't the speed of the encryption
18:25<Toba>if you have fat enough pipes it is
18:25<Toba>;)
18:26<inkmesh>yeah, the bottleneck is my crppy outbound pipe
18:26<inkmesh>maxing out at 86KB/s
18:26<Toba>dsl, oh dsl
18:26<HoopyCat>Toba: if you have fat enough pipes, 1.5GB isn't a problem :-)
18:26<Toba>it is if you're impatient or if it's a batch job that runs every night and needs to get somewhere fast
18:27<Toba>there's something to be said for snappy
18:27<inkmesh>I'm considering moving to comcast, despite the horror stories
18:27<Toba>even if you don't need it
18:27<Peng_>If you have fat enough pipes, you probably aren't in the U.S., meaning the transfer won't be very fast anyway. :P
18:27<Yaakov>HoopyCat ha seriously phat pipes.
18:27<Toba>Peng_: heh. assuming this has anything to do with his linode ;)
18:27<Toba>oh he did say 'to my linode' derp
18:27<Peng_>Toba: Oh, good point.
18:28<Peng_>Oh.
18:28<Toba>FAKEOUT
18:28<HoopyCat>Toba: if you have ssh/sshd becoming CPU-bound on a regular basis in production (and not on an arduino or some other math-challenged platform), then i'll go ahead and concede this point :-)
18:28<Toba>i have
18:28<Toba>many times
18:28<Peng_>What about that less-slow OpenSSH distro?
18:28<Peng_>HPN or whatever
18:28<Toba>never heard of it
18:28<Toba>*google*
18:28-!-Smark[Gone] is now known as Smark
18:28-!-inkmesh [~478e5cde@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:29<Peng_>I believe Linode uses it.
18:29<Toba>huh.
18:29<Toba>is it on all the images though
18:29<Toba>or just the linode backup service...?
18:30<mwalling>Toba: how do you think migrations are so awesome
18:30<Toba>heh
18:30<Toba>i assumed either you were using cpus sent back from the future in a time machine or um, magic pixie dust?
18:31<straterra>It's simpler than that..heroin.
18:31<Smark>*sigh* I left mt nightly crontab on hourly on accident
18:31<Smark>my*
18:31<straterra>Lots and lots of heroin
18:31<Toba>s/migrations/overdoes/
18:31<Guspaz|m>Peng_: rsync does not do in-place merges, it creates a new hidden file that it builds from the local and remote version. If rsync terminates, it deletes that file (although I don't recall if it does that on termination or on startup the next time).
18:32<Guspaz|m>You need to give it an option to say, resume that file where it left off.
18:32<Guspaz|m>It *can* do in-place, but that's not default either.
18:32<Toba>--delete
18:32<Toba>--delete-before
18:32<Toba>--delete-after
18:32<Peng_>Toba: Guspaz|m Oh, thanks for the info.
18:32<Toba>manpage that shit.
18:32<Toba>(rsync)
18:32<Toba>i love using rsync to automate deploys
18:32-!-zck [zck@189-228.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit []
18:32<Peng_>Toba: The images would use the distro-standard packages.
18:33<Toba>that's what I figured.
18:33<quellhorst>at what point is it time to move away to linode?
18:33<Peng_>quellhorst: What?
18:33<Toba>when linode can't do what you need
18:33<Toba>duh
18:33<mwalling>quellhorst: never
18:33<Toba>what is your issue now?
18:33<Toba>mwalling: haha, nice.
18:33<quellhorst>so right, what can't linode cover?
18:33-!-neekers [~432800cb@webuser.linode.com] has joined #linode
18:33<Peng_>When Linodce can't do what you need, adapt your needs. :D
18:33<mwalling>quellhorst: any software you get under the bizspark program
18:34<Toba>it can't do bsd VMs
18:34<Peng_>Or bug the admins until it happens.
18:34<Peng_>Toba: It kinda can.
18:34<Toba>but then neither can anyone else as far as I know
18:34<Toba>it can!?
18:34<Guspaz|m>Linode can't cover anything beyond small storage requirements.
18:34<Toba>!
18:34<mwalling>!bsd
18:34<linbot>The 90s called: they want their Free Unix back.
18:34<Toba>haha
18:34<straterra>Guspaz|m: why can't it?
18:34<quellhorst>Guspaz|m: so storge is a problem? what if you could use s3 + linode?
18:34<Peng_>Toba: http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/BSD_Howto
18:34<straterra>You can get as much storage as you want
18:34<Toba>*read*
18:34<mwalling>Guspaz|m: whats the question
18:34<mwalling>er
18:34<Guspaz|m>straterra: The existing options come with very limited storage, and they charge $2/GB extra, which is exhorbitant.
18:34<Peng_>Toba: Don't have high expectations.
18:34<mwalling>quellhorst: whats the question?
18:35<straterra>You could get the whole host for yourself and get 2TB
18:35<Guspaz|m>S3 is remote: slow and uses transfer quota. Bad solution.
18:35<quellhorst>the question is when is linode not the right thing to use
18:35<Guspaz|m>straterra: That costs a fortune.
18:35<straterra>Eh, its not all that bad
18:35-!-rmayorga [rmayorga@168.243.73.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:35-!-rmayorga [rmayorga@168.243.73.32] has joined #linode
18:35<mwalling>no, thats a question, thats a question you came up with to try to answer the question i want
18:36<neekers>yesterday, i was asking about security of DotNetNuke vs. Joomla vs. Drupal and someone posted a link to a security site, does anyone know what website it was? I think it was joe who posted it
18:36<Guspaz|m>It's easy to get lots of storage in a dedicated server for a fraction the cost. Linode is great for many things, storage allotment isn't one of them.
18:36<mwalling>neekers: thegrebs.com/irc/
18:36<neekers>thanks
18:36<mwalling>neekers: or, get a real client and turn on autologging
18:36<quellhorst>mwalling: thats a statement about the question i stated to your question about my original question
18:37<mwalling>quellhorst: the onion runs on linode.
18:37<quellhorst>mostly static site? what kind of backend?
18:37<Toba>Peng_: i'm not gonna try it.
18:37<mwalling>quellhorst: the onion. *THE* onion.
18:37<Toba>i don't really run bsd except at work anymore
18:37<Peng_>Toba: A wise decision.
18:37<Peng_>Toba: Oh.
18:38<Toba>at home I'm a linux man.
18:38<Guspaz|m>The onion: An extremely high-traffic humour site, dynamic content.
18:38<Guspaz|m>Although I doubt they use linode for the video.
18:38<Guspaz|m>They probably use a CDN.
18:38<quellhorst>for sure.
18:38<mwalling>if you're using a screw driver to mow your lawn, you're doing it wrong.
18:38<quellhorst>didn't seem too dynamic... not like an ebay site
18:38<quellhorst>i use massive fires to clear my lawn
18:39<Peng_>The Onion uses Linode?
18:39<quellhorst>fires scale
18:39<mwalling>quellhorst: so do linodes
18:39<mwalling>Peng_: old news
18:39<Peng_>www.theonion.com is an alias for g1.panthercdn.com.
18:39<Guspaz|m>Unless they're writing it all in HTML, it's dynamic.
18:39<quellhorst>sounds like the even use a cdn in front of linodes?
18:39<Guspaz|m>quellhorst: Makes sense when you're crazy high load and don't want to do an HA system yourself.
18:40<Peng_>Guspaz|m: There are more options than "hand-written HTML" and "dynamic".
18:41<Guspaz|m>Admittedly, but if they use any sort of CMS, there's dynamic business going on there.
18:41<Peng_>Isn't throwing caching servers in front of a dynamic website a popular choice?
18:41<Toba>I've written sites that regenerate the entire site based on dependencies and then copy the output to the live boxes
18:42<Toba>but that was before I knew what I was doing
18:42<Toba>but yes, caches in front of dynamic scripts is popular
18:42<mwalling>Toba: thats what jekyll does
18:42<daMaestro>caker, thanks again. it was an issue with our equip.
18:42<mwalling>Toba: it uses git and stuff too
18:42<Toba>!
18:42<Toba>*google*
18:42<mwalling>Toba: i used it for a blog for a while, then moved on... tychoish still does
18:42<Toba>http://github.com/mojombo/jekyll this?
18:43<mwalling>yup
18:43<Toba>cool. I'll check it out
18:43-!-neekers [~432800cb@webuser.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:47-!-hfb [~hfb@pool-98-112-210-252.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:49-!-vuf [~am@77.75.167.238] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
18:54-!-clanehin [~clanehin@cpe-069-134-154-178.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
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18:58<guinea-pig>sigh
18:59<guinea-pig>can somenoe tell gblx and he to stop fighting and just get along?
19:00<Peng_>What's going on?
19:00<Peng_>They're literally fighting (like Cogent) or just technical problems?
19:01<guinea-pig>packet loss at that hop
19:01<guinea-pig>for me
19:01<Peng_>Ah.
19:01<guinea-pig>bvut then... packet loss for me between lvl3 and theplanet, too,... *shrug*
19:02<Peng_>The gods must be angry. Did you use FTP? Check out GoDaddy? Slicehost?! Repent immediately!
19:03<guinea-pig>none of the above
19:03-!-zack [~zack@64-71-16-254.static.wiline.com] has joined #linode
19:03<guinea-pig>... i made baby jebus cry, though
19:03<Peng_>Nah, that couldn't be it. Did you drink cranberry juice?
19:04<guinea-pig>nope
19:04<Peng_>I'm out of ideas, then.
19:04<Peng_>I guess you'll be stuck with packet loss until you figure out what you did.
19:05<guinea-pig>curses
19:08-!-TheJoe is now known as TheJoe|ZzZz
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19:13-!-ddollar [~ddollar@c-24-30-99-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
19:13<ddollar>t seems like the dns manager isn't letting me CNAME the base domain, i want to CNAME example.org to proxy.heroku.com
19:13<@caker>that's illegal
19:14-!-zack_ [~zack@64-71-16-254.static.wiline.com] has joined #linode
19:14<ddollar>only if you want an MX record, iirc
19:14<@caker>huh?
19:14-!-kupesoft [~dave@CPE00131093f698-CM0012c9ab566c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:14-!-asdf [~wtf@hiflywireless.com] has joined #linode
19:14-!-asdf is now known as jstn
19:15<jstn>allo
19:15<jstn>how do i request a feature for the dashboard?
19:15<ddollar>*shrug* CNAME of base domain worked for me @ slicehost
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19:16<Peng_>It did?
19:16<Peng_>...Well, nowadays I have MX records and don't care about CNAME anymore anyway.
19:17<ddollar>looks like godaddy allows it as well
19:17<ddollar>http://blog.obiefernandez.com/content/2009/04/heroku-and-godaddy-cname.html
19:18<JoeK>dnsbl.makaiwell.com. NS ns1.linode.com <<- is that correct if i want to use that subdomain with linode dns
19:19-!-zack_ [~zack@64-71-16-254.static.wiline.com] has quit []
19:19<@caker>ddollar: weird
19:21<JoeK>please verify at earliest opportunity
19:21<@caker>JoeK: if makaiwell.com is also hosted in the dns manager you don't need to add the NS records in dnsbl.makaiwell.com
19:21<JoeK>makaiwell.com is hosted on an external dns server
19:21-!-daMaestro|isBack [~jon@content.beatport.com] has joined #linode
19:22<@caker>then you need all four NS entries in the sub zone
19:22<JoeK>so do that for ns2.linode.com etc ?
19:22<@caker>the same as any other zone ...
19:22<@jed>CNAME can't live alongside other records, i.e., you can't have a CNAME and an A or a CNAME and an MX for the same record
19:22<@caker>JoeK: or SOA record!
19:22<ddollar>jed: correct
19:22<@caker>er .. jed :)
19:22<@jed>I can't say foo IN CNAME example.org, then foo IN MX lala.org
19:22<JoeK>so what does an SRV record too?
19:22<ddollar>jed: therefore you cant CNAME a base name if you want to have an MX
19:23<@jed>I also can't say @ IN CNAME somethingelse.com, and @ IN SOA [...]
19:23<JoeK>do
19:23<ddollar>but if you dont care about that, it should be fine
19:23<@jed>therefore making the zone illegal
19:23<@jed>ddollar: wrong.
19:23<ddollar>you can say wrong all you want, but it works at tons of other dns providers
19:23<ddollar>including slicehost and godaddy
19:23<@jed>you need an SOA for @, and you can't have @ SOA and @ CNAME
19:23<@caker>I think bind bitches .. which is why I added that check ... will try it again
19:23<ddollar>i dont use @ CNAME
19:23<ddollar>i use example.org. CNAME
19:24<@jed>which won't work with bind
19:24<Peng_>ddollar: The exact syntax isn't the point.
19:24-!-daMaestro [~jon@content.beatport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24<@jed>@ == example.org. when $ORIGIN is specified, they're exactly the same
19:24<@jed>I can't speak to the willingness of other providers to implement illegal and nonstandard DNS implementations
19:24-!-adnc [~numer@p548575AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24<ddollar>classic
19:24<ddollar>ok, thanks anyway
19:24-!-ddollar [~ddollar@c-24-30-99-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #linode []
19:25<@jed>have a good day
19:25<@jed>please rethink
19:26<Peng_>What happens if you try to use the DNS manager to slave a domain that does that?
19:27-!-ddollar [~ddollar@24.30.99.205] has joined #linode
19:27<@jed>welcome back ddollar!
19:27<ddollar>another question, when i signed up i paid prorated september and october.. if i cancel will i get october back?
19:27<ddollar>i cancelled my account so i cant login to file a ticket
19:28<@jed>ddollar, you don't have to cancel your linode service over an unsupported feature. you're welcome to run BIND ... sigh.
19:28<@jed>ddollar, seriously?
19:28<ddollar>jed: i'm on slicehost, i just signed up for linode last night to check it out
19:28<ddollar>it doesnt support what i need, no reason to migrate :)
19:28<HoopyCat>is there a problem here, gentlemen?
19:28-!-ondrej [~ondrej@24-176-186-44.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #linode
19:28<@jed>what you need is illegal, just like CNAMEing @ to www
19:28*HoopyCat puts on his RFC Police Badge
19:29<@jed>I understand why you want it, but it's technically illegal and we don't allow it
19:29<ddollar>i can understand if you don't want to implement it, but slicehost did :)
19:29<@jed>there are better ways to get what you're after, and we're willing to help you explore them
19:29<ddollar>to use heroku pretty much requires it
19:29<ddollar>otherwise i have to manually set an A to 3 random IP's that heroku wont guarantee will not change
19:29<ddollar>http://docs.heroku.com/custom-domains
19:30-!-kupesoft [~dave@CPE001d60dffa6c-CM0018c0c44e76.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #linode
19:30<HoopyCat>or point example.com. IN A 1.2.3.4, where 1.2.3.4 is a linode with a httpd that'll 302 to www.example.com
19:31<HoopyCat>(canonicalize at the application level)
19:31<@jed>ddollar: you'd be better off using A records in this case
19:31<ddollar>i've been using CNAMEs at slicehost for almost a year
19:32<ddollar>i understand it may be "illegal" from an RFC, but it works at many dns providers
19:32-!-daMaestro|isBack is now known as daMaestro
19:32<Toba>cname for mx records?!
19:32<Toba>FOR SHAME
19:32<ddollar>but i totally understand if you dont want to implement it
19:32<HoopyCat>ddollar: you're also relying on everyone's resolvers to handle it in the way you intend
19:32<@jed>a compliant resolver will reject the record, which means your site will be offline
19:32<ddollar>hoopy: no resolver has a problem when receiving a CNAME doing another lookup on the data
19:33<@jed>ddollar: you sure?
19:33-!-mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-142-112.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld]
19:33<ddollar>anyong have a link to the RFC that says it's illegal?
19:33<HoopyCat>ddollar: none that you know of, but if one does, you're boned because you're the one out of spec :-)
19:34<SelfishMan>saying that it works with $otherprovider is a bad argument for implementing something that is not allowed
19:34<HoopyCat>ddollar: RFC 1912, section 2.4 discusses CNAME
19:34<ddollar>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2821#section-5
19:35<@jed>ddollar: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1912.txt section 2.4
19:35<@jed> A CNAME record is not allowed to coexist with any other data. In
19:35<@jed> other words, if suzy.podunk.xx is an alias for sue.podunk.xx, you
19:35<@jed> can't also have an MX record for suzy.podunk.edu, or an A record, or
19:35<@jed> even a TXT record. Especially do not try to combine CNAMEs and NS
19:35<@jed> records like this!
19:35<@jed>the .com, .net, and .org delegations require a SOA and NS records for every domain
19:35<@jed>as does likely every other TLD
19:35<Peng_>ddollar: The SMTP RFC doesn't invalidate the limitations of DNS itself.
19:35*SelfishMan rememers this thread on the bind users list going on for about 6 months
19:36<Toba>i forget
19:36<Toba>is it valid to have 2 cnames
19:37<Toba>with the same name
19:37<Toba>to other things
19:37<Battousai>no
19:37<HoopyCat>Toba: a CNAME
19:37<Toba>didn't think so
19:37<@jed>Toba: no
19:37<HoopyCat>Toba: may only
19:37<HoopyCat>Toba: exist alone
19:37<HoopyCat>Toba: upon a record
19:37<HoopyCat>Toba: with the exception
19:37<HoopyCat>Toba: of dnssec stuff
19:37<Toba>the loneliest dns record
19:37<@caker>ddollar: hang tight for another day and I'll look into support it. Cool?
19:38<BeBoo>i don't know squat about dns and i even know that -_-
19:38<Toba>caker did you get my pm about the race condition in linode's dashboard
19:38<HoopyCat>personally, i think CNAME should go the way of the dodo and SRV should be used in its place, but good luck with that
19:38-!-supine [~marty@office.rbery.bulletproof.net] has joined #linode
19:38<ddollar>caker: i'll check back in a few to see how it fell down, but i already cancelled my account.. if support has been added i'll look at migration again
19:38<HoopyCat>(in my future, MX dies too)
19:38<ddollar>also you guys may be interested in http://gist.github.com/191528
19:39<ddollar>to give to potential migrators
19:39<Peng_>In my future, DNS dies and we all memorize IP addresses. :D
19:39<Peng_>My future is a really crappy place.
19:39<Battousai>that's gonna hurt with ipv6
19:39<Battousai>if anyone ever uses it
19:39<Toba>that's the question
19:39<Toba>sure you can support it
19:39<Peng_>In my future, nobody cared about IPv6, so everyone has six NATs.
19:39<Toba>but will anyone care?
19:39<emag>::1:2:3:4:5? that's the same ip address on my luggage!
19:39<Toba>emag :D
19:39<SelfishMan>Peng_: I'll take that feature when I have /32 (ipv4) and full /64 (ipv6) ip portability
19:40<Toba>a /64 had better be enough
19:40<ddollar>to prior question: when i created my account yesterday it made me pay for the rest of september and october.. if i cancelled, will i get refunded for at least october?
19:40<Peng_>ddollar: There's a 7-day money back guarantee, for one thing, but I think you have to ask for it.
19:40<SelfishMan>Toba: /64 is the minimum size allowed to be routed t end users. I'm going to need multiple /48s because of that
19:40<ddollar>will do, thanks :)
19:41<Peng_>Why isn't it automatic?
19:41<Toba>SelfishMan: not that they can enforce that....
19:41<SelfishMan>Toba: actually, trying to track anything longer than a /64 would be painful
19:42<SelfishMan>main reason for that being the autoconfig nature of ipv6
19:42-!-ddollar [~ddollar@24.30.99.205] has left #linode []
19:42<HoopyCat>Peng_: a decent reason not to would be 1) get linode account using credit card 2) change credit card to debit card 3) initiate full automatic refund 4) get free cash advance plus rewards points 5) lather rinse repeat. it's like the dollar coin exploit
19:43<HoopyCat>Peng_: automatic == bad
19:43<Peng_>Dollar coin exploit?
19:44<SelfishMan>Peng_: yep. many places mistake them for quarters
19:45<SelfishMan>also, many electronic gamling systems see $2 bills as $5 bills
19:45<HoopyCat>Peng_: http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&categoryId=27238&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=16238&top_category=16238
19:46<Peng_>My brain is off today; how does the dollar coin exploit actually work?
19:46<Peng_>Wouldn't it mean you get to pay 4 times as much?
19:46<HoopyCat>Peng_: you buy $500 worth of dollar coins on your credit card, and then you deposit them into your bank, thus skirting your credit card's cash advance surcharges
19:47<Peng_>Ah.
19:47<SelfishMan>oh, I was thinking of something else
19:47<HoopyCat>Peng_: (or, more usefully, getting up over a tier in your card's rewards program)
19:47*SelfishMan receives dollar coins as change in place of quarters frequently
19:47-!-kenichi [~kenichi@207.162.220.10] has quit [Quit: kenichi]
19:50*HoopyCat kites biannual Linode 14400s
19:50<Peng_>"kites"?
19:50<HoopyCat>Peng_: man, you're too honest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_kiting
19:51<Peng_>I'm not honest, I'm just dumb.
19:51<HoopyCat>Peng_: well, at least you're honest
19:55<SelfishMan>s/'re honest/haven't been caught yet/
19:58<Peng_>What good is dishonesty if one is dumb?
20:01<HoopyCat>it's entertainment for the rest of us
20:01<HoopyCat>randy cassingham and countless others have made entire careers out of the answer to that question
20:11-!-zack [~zack@64-71-16-254.static.wiline.com] has joined #linode
20:13<linbot>New news from forums: http://www.linode.com/forums redirection in Feature Request/Bug Report <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4657>
20:13<bob2>hah
20:13<HoopyCat>on that topic, is it me or is the RSS feed totally bonerific?
20:13<HoopyCat>(not in the good way)
20:14<HoopyCat>((and not acutely; nothing's immediately broken right now))
20:14-!-putlake [~chatzilla@c-24-17-98-112.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linode
20:15-!-putlake is now known as jazzyboy
20:15<jazzyboy>upgrade question: I just go to my account and request an upgrade. It's all virtual. There is no downtime and no migration required. Is this correct?
20:16<bob2>upgrade will move you to a new host
20:16<BarkerJr>yes, there is downtime and migration :)
20:16<jazzyboy>:(
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20:17-!-laser` [~laser@dyn244136.shef.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:18<BarkerJr>oh no, the forum is down :(
20:18<@jed>BarkerJr: no it isn't
20:23-!-metaperl [HydraIRC@cpe-75-187-105-186.insight.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:24<encode>BarkerJr: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.linode.com/forums
20:25<BarkerJr>is that truncating?
20:26<jazzyboy>How much downtime is expected when you upgrade? All the heavy lifting for migration is done by Linode, isn't it? Is raising a ticket all I have to do?
20:26<bob2>pretty sure plan changes are automated now
20:26<palintheus>http://blog.linode.com/2009/09/09/self-serve-linode-resizes/
20:28<Peng_>The resize page estimates the downtime.
20:28<jazzyboy>thanks all
20:31<drewr>can we relay mail through linode?
20:31<mwalling>!f what can i do with my linode
20:31<linbot>mwalling: What can I do with my Linode? It's probably easier to tell you what you cannot do: Nothing illegal and nothing that interferes with other customers and services. Our Terms of Service document is located here: http://www.linode.com/tos.cfm
20:32<drewr>no, I mean is there a relay server through which we can relay outbound mail
20:32<mwalling>no
20:32<encode>no
20:32<drewr>k, thanks
20:32<mwalling>well, pay me a penny a message and maybe
20:32<drewr>heh
20:32<mwalling>i have an SLA of 0.000001% uptime
20:33<encode>i can do so much better. 2 cents per message, and a guaranteed SLA of at least 50% downtime
20:33<mwalling>!newercalc 1 year * 0.00000001 in seconds
20:33<linbot>mwalling: 0.3154 seconds
20:33<mwalling>\o/
20:34<encode>mwalling: i don't think you'll be earning too many pennies if that was your actual uptime
20:34<encode>it'd take a fair bit of effort to fail that sla
20:34<mwalling>encode: no, but it keeps me from getting sued
20:34<linbot>New news from wiki: Upgrade Linode <http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/Upgrade_Linode>
20:36<encode>i like my wording better
20:36<encode>it allows for the possibility of 100% downtime
20:37<mwalling>true
20:37<mwalling>didnt read that right
20:38<encode>that was the idea :)
20:38<encode>a casual reading can be misleading
20:38<mwalling>touche
20:40<Peng_>Guaranteeing 0.000001% uptime takes a lot of effort.
20:41<Peng_>Guaranteeing "at least 50% downtime" takes none. :D
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20:41<@mikegrb>[19:33:21] -!- mheld [~mheld@c-76-119-142-112.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld]
20:42<BarkerJr>mass
20:43<Peng_>???
20:43<Peng_>mheld?
20:44<mwalling>Peng_: mikegrb must be using putty in the default rightclickpaste config
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20:44<Peng_>Ah, of course.
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20:45<Smark>haha oh wow... watch avi from the terminal: http://liquidweather.net/howto/index.php?id=74
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20:49<encode>why would mikegrb be using windows?
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20:53<BarkerJr>doesn't everyone use windows?
20:54<Peng_>I use doors.
20:54<@tychoish>I use awesome
20:54<BarkerJr>I wish putty had tabs
20:54<BarkerJr>it's eating up too much of my taskbar
20:54<@tychoish>use screen?
20:55<encode>screen ftw
20:55<encode>it enables me to have year-long irssi uptimes
20:55<Peng_>Use two putties, attached to the same screen session, for redundancy. Or something.
20:55<encode>Peng_: erm, ok
20:55<@tychoish>the terminal emulator I use on my desktop doesn't have tabs, so I just use screen and I love it
20:55<Peng_>Ohh! My irssi uptimes are only like 10 hours.
20:55<bob2>awesome is quite awesome
20:56-!-techman224 [~techman22@wnpgmb1316w-ds01-226-237.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #linode
20:56<@tychoish>Peng_: you know you don't have to be connected to a screen session for it to be persistent
20:56<Harry_Mudd>i tried urxvt-tabbed + screen and then split my irc client window and my head explode
20:56<Peng_>tychoish: But the computer does have to be on!
20:56<mwalling>Peng_: use your linode
20:56<@tychoish>just the linode
20:57<Peng_>But the Linode does have to be on!
20:57<@tychoish>sure
20:57<mwalling>tychoish: Peng is actually just for his irpg account, cause he is a CHEAT!
20:57<chuck>HoopyCat: that blog post about printing off your todo list was good
20:57<Peng_> 00:57:58 up 7:35, 17 users, load average: 0.17, 0.08, 0.08
20:58<@tychoish>Harry_Mudd: I use urxvt straight up
20:58<mwalling>chuck: do you use rtm?
20:58<Peng_>I rebooted my Linode for a kernel upgrade yesterday, and OOMed it today. :(
20:58<Peng_>Before that it was...114 days.
20:58<chuck>it's inspired me to write a quick web app that will let me record simple todo items throughout the school day using twitter DMs or email or w/e, and then print it off at about 3:00PM so I have it ready to use when I get home
20:58<@tychoish>114 is pretty good
20:58<chuck>mwalling: no, i don't
20:58<Peng_>Uptime sucks. I start weighing "should I postpone this reboot" and stuff.
20:58<Harry_Mudd>tychoish: wuz joking, i use urxvt straight
20:58<encode>Peng_: thats bad. you should have rebooted about 30-40 days ago to take advantage of the fix for the kernel security hole
20:59<Peng_>encode: I know. I was AFK for 10 weeks. I got to it ASAP.
20:59<Peng_>Well, after less than <24 hours. My backup server was being crappy.
21:00<encode>fair enough
21:00<Harry_Mudd>less than less than?
21:00<Peng_>Oops.
21:00<Harry_Mudd>:)
21:01<Peng_>Being AFK for 10 weeks when you have a server to maintain is really dumb, of course. I seem to have gotten away with it, though.
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21:07<Peng_>Glad I don't run WordPress. :P
21:07<@mikegrb>lolz
21:07<BarkerJr>lol
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21:13<@tychoish>mikegrb, the moon is 1.29 light seconds from earth, not 1 as I suggested earlier.
21:15<Peng_>In my world, the moon would be 1.2835 light seconds from the Earth.
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21:15<Peng_>And made of chocolate.
21:15<Peng_>Or nuclear waste.
21:16<@tychoish>pfft ;)
21:17<@tychoish>1.28 light seconds
21:18<@tychoish>also, really, NCIS is a trending topic on twitter?
21:19*Peng_ doesn't get CBS
21:19<@tychoish>I would have posted that to twitter, except that would have only made it worse
21:19<Peng_>If you don't, I'll post it twice. :D
21:20<HoopyCat>chuck: seriously, it's the only thing that keeps me together :-) the next big thing i need to figure out is getting traction on bigger projects with no particular due date (e.g. stuff like painting the bedroom, etc). it gets lost behind the stuff that does have a definite due date
21:23<HoopyCat>that reminds me, i have a spare 40 minutes, i should do a hiveminder task review and see what that does for my productivity
21:23<bob2>meta-procrastination ftw
21:24-!-Twayne [~waynemilt@cpe-071-070-201-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
21:25*HoopyCat locks up
21:26<HoopyCat>oh hell, i knew i shouldn't have put "Task review" on my to-do list, knowing damned well that i'd hit it during the task review
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21:33<needhelp>hello there, i want to get a simpler address for my node -- like hello.members.linode.com or similiar... how do i do that?
21:33<Peng_>needhelp: You can use whatever (valid) rDNS you want.
21:34<bob2>needhelp: you don't get to use .members.linode.com beyond the pre-assigned numeric name
21:35<needhelp>i see... well i don't have any rdns right now
21:36<Peng_>A domain name only costs like $10 for a year. :D
21:36<Peng_>And you might be able to bribe a friend to set up an A record for less!
21:36<needhelp>oh -- like just go to godaddy and setup a domain, and then point that domain at the linode address?
21:36<encode>needhelp: you can specify any rDNS you like, provided you have the same A/CNAME record pointing at your IP
21:37<needhelp>i think i understand.. i wish linode could just do it all.. would be happy with howdy.linode.com
21:37<bob2>needhelp: or you can have linode host the dns for the domain
21:38<needhelp>thanks for the help everyone
21:40<chuck>HoopyCat: how hard was it to get printing working from inside of python?
21:41<HoopyCat>chuck: printer = cups.Connection(), then printer.printFile('samsung', tmpfile.name, "Ryan's Daily Schedule", {})
21:42<HoopyCat>chuck: the trick is tmpfile = tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile() and dumping it all there first
21:42<chuck>what is "samsung"? one of your printers?
21:43<HoopyCat>chuck: yup
21:44<HoopyCat>aka hal:///org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_4e8_327e_3V61BKEP121672L__if0_printer_noserial in the vernacular
21:46<Peng_>"Samsung" is a much nicer name.
21:47<Peng_>Slightly more trademarky, but...
21:50<HoopyCat>that's what it says on the front
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21:53<linbot>New news from forums: Optimize a 540: Tuning PHP/cgi+Apache/worker+APC+fcgid+MySQL in Performance and Tuning <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4648>
21:54<HoopyCat>hmm, the "Fire Alarm/Emergency Evacuation Procedures for Brighton and Damon Campuses" reminder arrived today. i sense a fire drill in the near future.
21:55<chuck>add it to the list! :P
21:57<Peng_>Find out where the fire drill is, so you can schedule your work during it.
21:59<HoopyCat>it'll probably be right in the middle of trying to measure diode junction capacitance or something annoyingly non-disruptable like that
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22:01<JoeK>does anybody have any 100mb bin tests?
22:01<JoeK>for use with wget
22:02<HoopyCat>!download
22:02<linbot>http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2636
22:02<JoeK>whatever works i guess :p
22:02<HoopyCat>JoeK: ^--- there's a few there
22:02<JoeK>i remember a 100mbit test being posted
22:03<Peng_>100 Mbit != 100 MB
22:03<JoeK>100 mb bin file test
22:03-!-darkbeholder [~darkbehol@124-168-246-42.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #linode
22:03<JoeK>whatever xP
22:03<Peng_>There are 100 Mbit files all over the place.
22:03<Peng_>I wonder what my IPv6 throughput is?
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22:09<array>http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26114000-421,00.html
22:10<HoopyCat>"gale, creepy red fog, sound of sirens. WTF? Expecting Martian war machine to lurch into view any minute. "
22:10<supine>yeah, it was weird waking up to an orange glow before dawn
22:11<array>supine: the views (or lack of?) from the office are crazy.. thick red fog
22:11-!-sc0field [~rajiv@201.82.94.122] has joined #linode
22:11<array>they're saying viewability will be down to 10m within the next hour or two
22:12<supine>array: where are you?
22:13<array>supine: gold coast
22:16<amitz>HoopyCat: heh, I thought nobody thought of that kind of business in US, selling dollar bills on cc while charging a premium of x percent, since many people in US is in debt yet I have never heard such scheme mentioned.
22:18<bob2>clearing up in syd
22:18<SelfishMan>bob2: they have medication for that
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22:39<linbot>New news from forums: Cannot SSH into server with public key in General Discussion <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4662>
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 23 00:00:57 2009