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#linode IRC Logs for 2009-10-28

---Logopened Wed Oct 28 00:00:05 2009
---Daychanged Wed Oct 28 2009
00:00<sasqtch>are all the hosts up now, or what?
00:00-!-geoffeg [] has quit [Quit: geoffeg]
00:00<davew>vapor: okay thanks. I'm still on Pass 2; have been for about 7 mins. that normal?
00:00<vapor>davew it isn't a good sign but its not yet a bad omen.
00:00-!-Talman [] has joined #linode
00:00<Talman>All right, I have to write this up.
00:00<vapor>depends on the speed and size of the disks
00:00<vapor>but 7 min isnt too long
00:00<path>when you need to do fsck -fy, that is not a great sign
00:00-!-shakr [] has joined #linode
00:01*davew hang my head
00:01<davew>oh, lol
00:01<davew>been a while since I've used mirc
00:01<davew>err irc or wtf ever this is lmao
00:01<Talman>When the network upgrade botched, were (was my) linodes rebooted?
00:01<path>mibbet might be better :)
00:02<vegard>fsck: fsck.ext3: No such file or directory
00:02<davew>you shoulda been here about 3 hours ago...
00:02<davew>jed: thanks for you all your help earlier. you were saving people left and righ
00:02-!-brandon [~brandon@] has joined #linode
00:03<sasqtch>"Bringing up interface eth0: Device eth0 has different MAC address than expected" ... wow, things really got fucked up good tonight, didn't they
00:03<@jed>davew: you're welcome, glad I could help :)
00:03<path>comment out HWADDR
00:03<agnor>for everyone asking about fsck times, mine ran about an hour. depends on your disk and also what other I/O is going on on your host at the time
00:03<davew>no, this was all part of the plan. "they" did this
00:03<@jed>sasqtch: that's a bug CentOS introduced, comment out HWADDR in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
00:03<vapor>davew if you dont have a backup, I highly recommend next time the OS comes back in read only that you back up what you need and get ready for a rebuild
00:04<Talman>Ok, so that explains the issue.
00:04<@jed>unrelated to this evening but showed up for you because you rebooted
00:04<sasqtch>jed: i did, but after that and `service network restart`, no network love
00:04-!-roopesh4 [] has quit [Quit: roopesh4]
00:04<Talman>jed, actually, just explained my problem as well.
00:04-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has joined #linode
00:04<sasqtch>jed: i just manually went and got my info from the networking page and icfonfig'd and route'd it manually, but that's not the point
00:04<Talman>There was something wrong in my /etc/network/interfaces, and the reboot (the first reboot) killed it.
00:04-!-Chriso1 [] has joined #linode
00:04<Talman>We've been down for 3 hours.
00:05<megatron27>there was down time?
00:05<davew>vapor: thanks, wil do. is it real bad to kill fsck?
00:05<megatron27>12 hours ago?
00:05<megatron27>just saw the updates on twitter
00:05<vapor>davew, I haven't seen it make things worse ;-)
00:05<vegard>nuts. Now I only need fstab.
00:05<davew>hah okay ty
00:06-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has quit []
00:06<warewolf>Talman: is your linode still broken?
00:06<amitz>megatron27: yeah, for probably 2 hours at my site.
00:06<vegard>anyone have one that contains all the /proc and /sysfs stuff too?
00:06-!-geoffeg [] has joined #linode
00:06<warewolf>vegard: /proc and /sysfs are virtual filesystems
00:06<@jed>vegard: start from this:
00:07<warewolf>vegard: that's if you're on a xen linode (you probally are)
00:07<@jed>(warewolf: thanks :))
00:07-!-thismat [] has joined #linode
00:08<warewolf>vegard: you can also run 'mount /proc -t proc /proc' and 'mount /sys -t sysfs /sys' and then look at the contents of /proc/mounts
00:08-!-purrdeta [] has joined #linode
00:08<davew>time to make backups
00:08<davew>errm migrate backups :/
00:08<warewolf>vegard: thre will be lines in /proc/mounts that are the same format that you can stick into /etc/fstab
00:08-!-Berto [] has joined #linode
00:08<thismat>Complete novice question here, I can't find good information on it via google...but I have set my /var/sites to www-data owner and group read/write/execute and when using a user I added to that group I can't modify the files, any idea what I might have overlooked?
00:08<vapor>davew yeah at this point it will probably be faster to do that than to continue trying to fix a borked system that may still require a rebuild.
00:09<Chriso1>Man people get angry over downtime. looking at the thread on the forums.
00:09<agnor>thismat: are you sure your webserver process runs under www-data?
00:09<atg>Chriso1: unplanned downtime usually isn't welcome
00:10<purrdeta>usually, but stuff happens
00:10<vegard>but I'l
00:10<davew>vapor so what exactly is the problem? just an untidy cleanup?
00:10<straterra>Well..if people dont want to be dead in the water with downtime..they need to configure HA
00:10<straterra>Outages happen
00:10<Chriso1>atg: yea but its a computer/server somethings things can go very wrong very easy with out even knowing.
00:10<thismat>agnor, positive, I can view the sites in a browser just fine, the rails and django sites even work, I just can't SFTP or use vim to edit the files with a user other than www-data or root that is part of the www-data group
00:10<atg>Chriso1: plus, some people just like to complain for the sake of complaining
00:10<straterra>Same with people who've lost data to this. Linode's stance has always been to do your own backups.
00:11<@jed>straterra: the only data lost I've heard of so far is inittab or fstab
00:11<vapor>davew it could be a number of corrupted files do to journaling issues or writebacks that didnt happen before linode crashed
00:12<vapor>95% of the time fsck has fixed things like this for me in other virtual environments
00:12<chesty>their really weird files to lose, it's not like they get written to all the time
00:12<straterra>Look at all of that bitching
00:12<straterra>jed: my point stands
00:12<Chriso1>atg: True to that
00:12<straterra>jed: Admins who want uptime and data security set up HA and their own backups
00:12<warewolf>high availability
00:12<straterra>high availability
00:13<chesty>straterra: that doesn't help whe all DC are affected
00:13<straterra>At work..I dont have my neck riding on one
00:13<straterra>chesty: You could get a VPS with another provider too
00:13<thismat>I still love you linode :D
00:13<sasqtch>straterra: that's why i had linodes at more than one datacenter :P
00:13<vapor>I generally let fsck run for about 20 or so before killing it, especially if I have to prepare for restores. I get all the prep work done while fsck runs and then if it seems hung (which I have only seen once or twice do to bad disks) I kill it and start the rebuild
00:13<Berto>Hi - I have a linode in CA, but want to get another one. Are the other locations on different C class blocks?
00:13<path>chesty: i don't think all linode hosts were rebooted at the same instant either
00:14<chesty>i wouldn't know, my linode was unaffected :D
00:14<straterra>path: they werent
00:14<straterra>They did it by datacenter, starting with newark
00:14<straterra>Berto: yup
00:14<Berto>straterra, nice :) consider yourself a good salesman tonight!
00:14<agnor>thismat: this is a shot in the dark (I'm tired), but I think directories might need the -x permission on them to let anyone modify files inside them
00:15-!-Chriso1 [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085414]]
00:15<straterra>I love the bitching on the people apparantly would rather have the linode employees do continual updates in the forums rather than fix the issue
00:15<warewolf>agnor: chmod +x permits people to change directories into that directory
00:15<Pryon_>straterra: obviously your linode(s) are just expensive shell accounts.
00:15<warewolf>hey guys
00:15<Berto>straterra, what even happened today? Was CA affected? My traffic is slightly down but i never noticed anytihing. I should probably get a monitoring tool as i grow
00:15<warewolf>if you're here to bitch and moan, you're not helping.
00:15<thismat>agnor: drwxr-xr-x 3 www-data www-data - that's correct isn't it? or am I missing something?
00:15-!-Pryon_ is now known as Pryon
00:16<Berto>straterra, oops sorry didn't read the topic
00:16<straterra>Pryon_: how so?
00:16<warewolf>if you're here to help people fix their linodes, you're helping.
00:16<warewolf>thismat: those permissions look ok for a website directory for read-only access
00:16<Pryon>straterra: that seems to be the standard response of the more indignant of the posters in the forums when somebody says "fecal matter happens"
00:17<straterra>I have customers on my Linode too..and I have solutions for if (when) it goes down
00:17-!-donkey [] has joined #linode
00:17<thismat>warewolf: Ah, I need the www-data group to have read/write, or I need to find a way to allow multiple people to write to the files there. Any tips on how I can find helpful information on this? Google returns a lot of stuff I either know, or that doesn't help.
00:17<donkey>is it normal for my network to show two eto0"
00:18<straterra>donkey: if you have multiple IP's on eth0..perhaps
00:18<donkey>is it normal for my network to show two eto0's in Network Settings for my additional ip? Shouldnt it be eth0 and eth0:0 ?
00:18<Talman>So, what is Linode's official notification channel to clients?
00:19<chesty>in ifconfig?
00:19<warewolf>thismat: then you might want to create a new group from scratch, put the people you want to have access in that group, change the group ownership of your website directory to that group, then chmod g+w the directory.
00:19-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
00:19-!-Berto [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:19<thismat>warewolf: awesome, thanks!
00:19-!-path [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:19<donkey>in Linode Manager
00:19<warewolf>thismat: that's basic unix access control stuff there.
00:19<straterra>donkey: eth0:0 is a cludgy way that ifconfig uses for multiple IP's on an interface
00:20<thismat>warewolf: I know, I'm sorry for presenting such a silly question, I'm just on a time crunch and wasn't having success with google :\ thanks so much though.
00:20<straterra>I prefer using newer tools.. like ip add x.x.x.x/xx dev eth0
00:20<warewolf>thismat: no problem.
00:20<walterheck>i seem to be having trouble with my linode again, afetr everything was okay earlier (but after the problem earlier today) is that me or linode again?
00:20-!-Talman [] has quit [Quit: Talman]
00:21<amitz>walterheck: there is a mentioning that your fs might be corrupted.
00:21-!-path [] has joined #linode
00:21<warewolf>walterheck: what's going on?
00:21<walterheck>amitz: mentioning? as in due to this problem?
00:21-!-avongauss [] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me]
00:22<darkside_>i guess dallas wasn't affected or will hosts be rebooted in the near future?
00:22<walterheck>sites down unexplicably. earlier there was a reboot, and after that apache wouldn't start complaining about MIME::Parser perl module missing. Now, we upgraded from CentOS 5.3 to 5.4 earlier this week, and i'm not sure if i rebooted after that upgrade
00:23-!-brandon [~brandon@] has quit [Quit: brandon]
00:23<warewolf>walterheck: you can reinstall MIME::Parser with 'cpan -i MIME::Parser' as root
00:23<straterra>I find it kinda funny I was one of the first to report the issue in here :P
00:23<walterheck>my coworker did some magic to fix that, and afterwards all was up and running fine
00:23<walterheck>but now it is complaining again..
00:23<straterra>I was like "Damn! My IRC client is down.."
00:23<warewolf>walterheck: feel free to nopaste logs of what's going on
00:24<bss>straterra: hah
00:24<pwnguin>straterra: i just have a nagios monitor, but so far im good
00:24<walterheck>warewolf: it was complaining even after reinstall
00:24<donkey>so anyone else having a problem rebooting their linode today?
00:24<warewolf>walterheck: ok :) you gotta show me something so I can help you fix :)
00:24<kelvinq>can anyone else recommend other vps providers? we are on amazon, linode and slicehost (> 15 servers in total) and we are looking for more redundnacy. 75% of our network is on Linode (we love you guys), but we still want to diversify.
00:24-!-chequers [] has joined #linode
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00:25<straterra>These forum people are funny..
00:25<warewolf>walterheck: your upgrade from centos 5.3 to 5.4 may have made a previous directory you had perl modules installed under nolonger default for perl to look in
00:25-!-_banana [] has quit [Quit: _banana]
00:25<vapor>recommend? dunno. I used godaddy in the past. It was limited but worked for my needs
00:25<straterra>"The guy who did this (or the boss who ordered him, if that was the case) should get punished by being forced to work 4 weekend-days without pay, and linodes with more than one hour downtime should get one month of service credited to their account."
00:26-!-mig5 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:26<warewolf>walterheck: easiest way to fix that is to just install them again.
00:27<thismat>warewolf: worked like a charm, thank you so very much.
00:27<walterheck>CPAN -i is teh same as "perl -MCPAN -e shell" followed by install "MIME::Parser", right?
00:27<walterheck>in which case that is done :)
00:27-!-avongauss2 [~avongauss@] has joined #linode
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00:27<warewolf>walterheck: ayup
00:27-!-Bohemian [] has joined #linode
00:27<bss>straterra: it's hilarious. everyone involved is likely understandably annoyed, but those posts are just ....
00:27<warewolf>walterheck: it's
00:27<warewolf>walterheck: 'cpan -i' though, not 'CPAN -i'.
00:27-!-Bohemian [] has left #linode []
00:28<vapor>kelvinq, I believe rackspace has some decent offerings and a good rep. But no personal experience with them.
00:28<warewolf>walterheck: you can check what modules you previously had installed with 'perldoc perllocal' too.
00:28-!-onlinemad [] has joined #linode
00:28<straterra>bss: agreed
00:28<warewolf>walterheck: there may even be a way to automate ripping the list of modules out of that, and reinstalling/freshening them.
00:28-!-thismat [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:28*donkey needs some sleep
00:28-!-vegard [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:28-!-donkey [] has left #linode []
00:29<straterra>I was a bit annoyed at the outage..but I'm not going to demand linode employees work without pay and a month free over some hours of downtime
00:29<kelvinq>vapor: thanks. :)
00:29<straterra>That's unrealistic..You should get a month free if it was down for a month
00:29<kelvinq>vapor: i guess you were referring to rackspace cloud.
00:29<pwnguin>you know what would be handy? an rss feed of #linode topics
00:29<bss>there are people going on about "negligence" and so on, that's just unnecessary
00:29<warewolf>straterra: you're using logic and reason against illogical and unreasonable people. :)
00:29<pwnguin>kelvinq: technically, rackspace owns slicehost
00:30-!-Syrogen [~asdas@] has joined #linode
00:30<Eman>rackspace are a pain in the ass to deal with
00:30<warewolf>can't forget irrational, too.
00:30<straterra>warewolf: bad.. ZOMGLOLDOWNTIME free monthz? L0L
00:30<kelvinq>pwnguin: yeah, i know. ;)
00:30<Eman>they gave me root access to someone elses server
00:30<straterra> a way they can understand
00:30<kelvinq>emag: pretty good so far.
00:30<bss>things break and that's nothing to brush off, but when a change is tested and verified and then there are problems in prod, there's a certain level of reality that some people just seem to be blind to
00:30<bss>disclaimer: i was down for 20 minutes total
00:31<vapor>kelvinq actually I thought they had vps in addition to their cloud but that was a while ago and they may have dropped that with slicehost.
00:31-!-geoffeg [] has quit [Quit: geoffeg]
00:31-!-davew [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:32<bss>additional disclaimer: i have also been bit by "it worked in our test environment and was tested to the fullest extent we could" and had to present that to executives and the CIO
00:32<straterra>bss: that forum post is like Days of Our Lives for nerds
00:32<warewolf>oooh bss is a seasoned sysadmin!
00:32-!-highos is now known as HIghoS
00:32<warewolf>first rule of sysadmining: never change anything on friday!
00:32-!-derekyang [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]]
00:32<bss>warewolf: haha
00:32<bss>straterra: it really is
00:32<atg>warewolf: I thought it was 'have working backups', but that works too
00:32<straterra>I can't even remember the last major outage I had on my systems at work
00:32<agnor>warewolf: we have that rule (and no direct queries against the db after 4pm). thanks for helping me with that other user's perms issue
00:33<straterra>You know what happen though?
00:33<straterra>When I leave for China on the 9th to do server work there..all of our US plants will go down
00:33<warewolf>so true
00:33<straterra>I'll try to fix them..get back over to the states..and China will go down. I just know it.
00:34<pwnguin>heh, good luck working remotely from china
00:34<straterra>I don't need luck..
00:34<kelvinq>vapor: looks like my search for yet another linode continues...
00:34<straterra>I have a magical VPN that's +10 on firewall penetrating
00:34<pwnguin>even if you DO get through the firewall, someone on the other side will be like "a random ip from china is attacking us!"
00:35<straterra>They won't see it from china..they'll see it from the states
00:35<straterra>and just wonder why the latency is el terrible
00:35<straterra>(and if they have ipv6, they'll be suprised I do too!)
00:36<walterheck>this is what is happening on my linode:
00:36<warewolf>walterheck: looking, 1 sec
00:36<walterheck>warewolf: thnx
00:36<Eman>second rule of sysadmining: dont answer the phone or check email during the last 2 hours of your shift
00:36<CaptObviousman>damn there are some angry people
00:37<agnor>eman: sounds like a good policy to avoid getting Lumbergh'd
00:37<straterra>CaptObviousman: very angry
00:37<warewolf>walterheck: what userid does your webserver run under? 'apache' ? 'www-data' ?
00:37<walterheck>CaptObviousman: some of the people in that forum really need a reality-check :S
00:37<Eman>i'd prefer to never open thunderbird or even have a phone on my desk
00:37<straterra>CaptObviousman: reminds me of the mob in South Park... "rabble rabble rabble rabble!"
00:37<Eman>i'd get much more work done
00:37<walterheck>warewolf: apache
00:38<straterra>or the "They took our jobs" crowd
00:38<walterheck>root just owns the parent process
00:38<warewolf>walterheck: right, 1 sec.
00:38<agnor>Okay, good luck everyone, looks like my stuff is sorted, so I'm out
00:38<CaptObviousman>walterheck: some of the people in the forums derive their business off of linode, so when it goes down, they're losing money
00:38-!-AndrewLuecke [~kvirc@2002:7a6b:8d21:0:957f:7a2a:b8d4:a10a] has joined #linode
00:38<walterheck>warewolf: as you can see, apache does start, but shit is not running :)
00:38<straterra>AndrewLuecke: damn ipv6 user!
00:38-!-rcs [] has joined #linode
00:39<straterra>You use ipv6
00:39<walterheck>CaptObviousman: then some of those people should be giving their architecture a bit more thought
00:39<straterra>So I'm insulting you..which from me means I'm impressed and extremely pleased
00:39<warewolf>walterheck: please run this as root -- it will try to load up perl running as the apache userid
00:39<warewolf>su -s /bin/bash -c 'perl -MMIME::Entity -e 1' apache
00:39-!-onlinemad [] has left #linode []
00:40<warewolf>walterheck: if that command prints nothing (or almost nothing) then the MIME::Entity module is OK.
00:40<CaptObviousman>"The guy who did this (or the boss who ordered him, if that was the case) should get punished by being forced to work 4 weekend-days without pay, and linodes with more than one hour downtime should get one month of service credited to their account."
00:40<AndrewLuecke>Just doing my part to solve the worldwide IP crisis :P (Its a IPV4->IPv6 tunnel though)
00:40<CaptObviousman>damn, somebody wipe the froth from that dude's mouth
00:40<straterra>CaptObviousman: I saw that
00:40<straterra>AndrewLuecke: tunnels are ok..HE?
00:40<straterra>CaptObviousman: I would love a month free over a few hours of downtime..the government should do that
00:41<walterheck>copy-pasting commands from irc, somewhere in the top 10 rules of nono :). In this case I understand what it does so it's okay though :)
00:41-!-onlinemad [~onlinemad@] has joined #linode
00:41<warewolf>walterheck: also; the "MIME::Entity" module is entirely separate from the "MIME::Parser" module.
00:41<AndrewLuecke>Dunno.. probably.. I use a Airport Extreme (which I want to replace with another), and they have IPv6 tunnelling built in.. Not sure which provider though
00:41<warewolf>walterheck: you may need to reinstall MIME::Parser.
00:41<MJCS>haha there is a company called "packet clearing house"
00:41<straterra>AndrewLuecke: its actually not a tunnel
00:41*CaptObviousman starts a hatelist
00:41<straterra>It's teredo
00:41<straterra>You can tell from the 2002: addy
00:41<ryanc>CaptObviousman: Yeah. People fuck up. Punishing fuckups usually doesn't help much.
00:42<walterheck>it really helps that the pings to my linode are 20+ seconds :(
00:42*CaptObviousman puts harmone and nsajeff on it
00:42<AndrewLuecke>wtf does that mean?
00:42-!-brokentux [] has joined #linode
00:42<walterheck>warewolf: it prints nothing
00:42<AndrewLuecke>I thought they were the same..
00:42<straterra>It's not a tunnel, persay
00:42<ryanc>CaptObviousman: is that from the thread?
00:42<warewolf>walterheck: ok, try reinstalling the MIME::Field module then
00:42-!-agnor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:42<straterra>teredo is a temporary ipv6 rollout designed to punch through symmetric NAT routers on ipv4 :)
00:43<ryanc>Mine was only down for a few minutes.
00:43<AndrewLuecke>It defines a way of encapsulating IPv6 packets within IPv4 UDP datagrams that can be routed through NAT devices and on the IPv4 internet. << sounds awfully like a tunnel to me :P
00:43<straterra>When someone says an ipv6 tunnel, they are usually referring to ipv6-in-ipv4
00:43<warewolf>walterheck: it looks like MIME::Parser or MIME::Entity uses the MIME::Field module, which may be messed up at line 281 (according to your nopaste)
00:43-!-Bohemian_ [] has joined #linode
00:43<walterheck>warewolf: will reinstall MIME::Parser. or do you really mean MIME::Field?
00:43<straterra>Different protocol and method
00:43<straterra>Though..both are tunneled, I suppose
00:43<warewolf>walterheck: try all of the above :)
00:43<AndrewLuecke>either way.. i have toredo then.. or whatever
00:43<straterra>still good lol
00:43<warewolf>walterheck: when you run 'perl -MCPAN -e shell' you can force reinstalls too
00:43<straterra>can you ping me?
00:44<warewolf>walterheck: e.g. 'force install MIME::Parser' will force it to install no matter if it thinks it is already installed
00:44<straterra> file server
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00:44<CaptObviousman>ryanc: yes
00:44<CaptObviousman>the vitriol being spewed on that thread is amazing
00:44<AndrewLuecke>me straterra? Is it IPV6 only though? Because by default, Windows 7 seems to use Ipv4..
00:45*CaptObviousman adds nknight
00:45<straterra>Windows 7 will use ipv6 by default
00:45<straterra>But ill get the addy real fast
00:45<CaptObviousman>blognewb_: you didn't read the topic I suppose
00:45<blognewb_>no, CaptObviousman, i did not
00:45<AndrewLuecke>It doesn't seem to for webbrowsing strattera.. I have to disable IPV4 to see the dancing kame
00:45<walterheck>warewolf: will try the forced reinstall
00:45<ryanc>Where I work, we take shots for prod outages.
00:46<ryanc>but it has to be something awful that you hate
00:46-!-Beirdo [] has joined #linode
00:46<straterra>AndrewLuecke: thats because Windows 7 prefers ipv4 over teredo.. if you had native or a tunnel (which looks like native to the OS), itd prefer ipv6
00:46<linbot>New news from wiki: User:Stevewalsh <>
00:46<AndrewLuecke>yeah straterra.. either way..
00:47<straterra>Give that a shot
00:47-!-runlevel0 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:47<darkside_>straterra: can ping it but your dns isn't right (or not propagated to me)
00:47<AndrewLuecke>yep straterra.. 306ms
00:47<straterra>darkside_: what isnt right?
00:47<straterra>AndrewLuecke: good deal
00:48<AndrewLuecke>Ping statistics for 2001:470:8a81:1:213:d4ff:fe79:c7f4:, Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),, Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 302ms, Maximum = 309ms, Average = 305ms
00:48<amitz>straterra: yeah, if not for my IRC client being down, I probably wouldn't know :-p
00:48<CaptObviousman>is that HE?
00:48-!-HIghoS [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:49<darkside_>the HE tunnels are a snap to setup
00:49<straterra>darkside_: I..dont think its propagated..
00:49<AndrewLuecke>unless you are using one of those cheap opennetworks based ADSL2 modems.. I doubt anything works behind those
00:49<Beirdo>OK, is there some news as to why my linode (in Atlanta) rebooted spontaneously?
00:49<AndrewLuecke>VPN barely works behind those
00:49<straterra>darkside_: if you dig with should get a different addy
00:49<darkside_>straterra: probably not
00:49<straterra>Beirdo: topic
00:50<AndrewLuecke>straterra: Your DNS works here too..
00:50<AndrewLuecke>Pinging [2001:470:8a81:1:213:d4ff:fe79:c7f4] with 32 bytes of data:
00:50-!-Daisy [] has quit [Quit: Daisy]
00:50<walterheck>yikes, apparently my coworker was also trying to fix the problem at the same time. One of us fixed it now, but who will remain a question. #bad_communication..'
00:50<darkside_>straterra: nice domain names btw. =D
00:50<straterra>darkside_: ty :)
00:50<straterra>all of my machines are southpark characters
00:51-!-Twayne [] has joined #linode
00:52<Beirdo>hahaha. I still await the promised notification ticket then
00:52-!-onlinemad [~onlinemad@] has quit [Quit: onlinemad]
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00:53-!-edlang [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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00:54<AndrewLuecke>ooh.. ls works in powershell
00:54<@jed>edlang: like popping your shoes off and stretching back into your slippers, eh?
00:54<@jed>(being back on your vhost :))
00:55-!-memenode [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:56-!-CyZo [] has joined #linode
00:57*Guspaz refrains from making a urmom joke involving "popping" and "stretching back into"
00:57-!-davew [] has joined #linode
00:58<Beirdo>gotta say... this sucked... now I'll have to check all my databases...
00:58-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Quit: walterheck]
00:58-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:59<davew>ugh, i'm probably going ot have to rebuild
00:59<davew>which is going to be super ugly
00:59<Guspaz>Reboot caused data corruption?
00:59<Beirdo>it almost always does
00:59-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
00:59<Guspaz>Not if you're using transactions and a database that does atomic writes
00:59<warewolf>not if you have a journaling filesystem
00:59<Beirdo>rebooting a database hard ALWAYS causes issues
01:00<warewolf>Beirdo: the databases you're using must suck then.
01:00<warewolf>Beirdo: because mine don't have that problem.
01:00<Beirdo>whatevver you say
01:00<Guspaz>Transactional usage ensures logical consistency, atomic writes ensure physical consistency.
01:00<Beirdo>blah blah blah
01:00-!-kmkarim [] has joined #linode
01:00<CaptObviousman>clealry not important
01:00<linbot>New news from forums: Status update on service outage. in System and Network Status <>
01:00<AndrewLuecke>It might also be that the transactions aren't designed properly.. Ones which should be done in one go are being spread out.
01:01-!-greg27 [] has joined #linode
01:01<AndrewLuecke>actually, that wouldn't technically the file struucture t hough..
01:01<Beirdo>hard reboots on active databases always cause issues. This has been the case with and without transactions for years
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01:01<linbot>New news from wiki: Talk:CentOS <>
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01:02<warewolf>Beirdo: making such blanket, uninformed statements makes you seem foolish.
01:02<kmkarim>Hello, Is anyone running a Cpanel DNS only server that got messed up during outage?
01:02<Beirdo>and like it or not, we don't have control over all of the apps we use, unless we rewrite them
01:02-!-Athenon [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:02<Beirdo>warewolf, you are being an ass
01:02<Guspaz>Beirdo: Transactions alone don't prevent data corruption, no. There are other factors to prevent issues. Either the database or the filesystem can take care of that part.
01:02<warewolf>quite the contrary.
01:02-!-CyZooNiC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:03<Guspaz>Hrrm, pparadis's post is rather corporate :(
01:03<Guspaz>Lacks a human touch.
01:03-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
01:03<warewolf>walterheck: progress?
01:04<Beirdo>warewolf: whether or not the apps were well designed, or whether or not the database servers are well designed is not the issue. The unannounced hard reboot is the issue. If I was given warning, I could have shut it all down in an orderly manner.
01:04<walterheck>read what i wrote before?
01:05<warewolf>walterheck: oh you got it fixed! congrats
01:05<walterheck>warewolf: was inadvertently working on ti teh same time as my coworker (yay for poor communication and remote wrok ;) ). one of us fixed it, but could have been either one of us :(
01:05<walterheck>warewolf: yeah, thanks for the help!
01:05-!-whatiris [~whatiris@] has joined #linode
01:05<warewolf>walterheck: you're quite welcome, glad I could help.
01:05<Beirdo>and you pontificating doesn't fix the problem, nor fix any corrupted databases
01:06<davew>ok guys, anyone offer me some advice? I can get my server up and running in read-only mode... what's the fastest way to repair it and get it running normal again?
01:06<warewolf>davew: sounds like your filesystem needs to be checked, try running fsck
01:07<davew>I did a fsck using finnix (which completed normally) but after rebooting had the same issue
01:07<warewolf>davew: nopaste the errors? I can help
01:07<davew>ok let me bring it back up, thanks
01:07<amitz>Guspaz: I used to answer a request to my company with a personal touch. My boss got angry at me :-)
01:08<Guspaz>Your boss was misguided.
01:08<amitz>Because whatever personal touch you use, a comittment is implied, which probably requires approval from your boss first.
01:09<edlang>jed: yup
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01:09<Beirdo>whew. At least the biggest table (that takes > 1h to rebuild) seems OK)
01:10<davew>warewolf: it loads fine, but if I use sudo for anything I get this "[sudo] password for dwelch: postdrop: warning: mail_queue_enter: create file maildrop/665351.2704: Read-only file system"
01:10<warewolf>Beirdo: I suggest researching how to crash-proof your "live" or "production" systems.
01:10<warewolf>davew: is that postfix?
01:10-!-Bass10 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:10<amitz>Guspaz: basically, you must be authorized to be able to give personal touch, and you must choose your word carefully unless you want people to haunt you due to misunderstanding your special touch.
01:10<warewolf>davew: I'm not familiar with postfix, sorry. :(
01:11<davew>warewolf: it is, but why would postfix stop me from using sudo?
01:11<Beirdo>warewolf: well, thanks... so not helpful.
01:11<warewolf>davew: do you have sudo configured to send email notifications when someone sue's to root?
01:11<davew>that maeks sense
01:11<warewolf>er su's to root
01:11<warewolf>Beirdo: hindsight is 20/20 vision.
01:11-!-davew [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:11-!-davew [] has joined #linode
01:11<davew>just got the right error
01:12<davew>sudo: unable to resolve host sername
01:12<davew>sudo: unable to resolve host servername*
01:12<warewolf>is your /etc/resolv.conf broken?
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01:13-!-James [] has joined #linode
01:13<davew>not sure, what should it be?
01:13<warewolf>davew: go into your linode control panel on, and look at your network settings.
01:13-!-James is now known as Guest66
01:13-!-StevenK [] has quit [Quit: Lala]
01:13<warewolf>in thre will be .. oh wait, no it isn't in there. hold on.
01:13<Beirdo>warewolf: unexpected and avoidable reboots are not good. Hindsight or not.
01:14<davew>using ubuntu if that helps
01:14<warewolf>Beirdo: 1 sec, working with someone who has listening skills
01:14<warewolf>davew: are you logged in via ssh to your linode directly or are you in via lish on the linode's console?
01:15<warewolf>davew: a quick and easy way to fix your /etc/resolv.conf is to fetch a new DHCP lease
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01:15<warewolf>davew: go ssh into lish on your linode's host
01:15-!-StevenK [] has joined #linode
01:15-!-StevenK [] has quit []
01:15<warewolf>davew: warning: this will temporarially drop the network on your linode
01:16<Beirdo>warewolf: love your condescending, patronizing attitude.
01:16-!-dav [LinodeJava@] has joined #linode
01:16<warewolf>davew: sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
01:16<davew>warewolf: thats okay, nothings working anyhow ;)
01:16<davew>in lish I get an error
01:16-!-StevenK [] has joined #linode
01:17<davew> Unable to open logs [fail]
01:17<davew>dunno if that matters
01:17<warewolf>what was above that?
01:17-!-mems [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:17<warewolf>(don't paste too much here, use the linode pastebin)
01:17<davew>what's that?
01:17<davew>(sorry noob to the max with this)
01:19<davew>man, you guys have this down to a science
01:19<warewolf>davew: interesting, it looks like your root filesystem is still mounted read only.
01:19-!-msmiffy [] has joined #linode
01:19<davew>lol yeah, so how do i fix it?
01:20<davew>if I can navigate and use sudo, I'm usually alright, but this feels like my hands are tied. Ty so much for your help man
01:20<warewolf>well we have to figure out why it remains mounted read only after the system is booted
01:20<warewolf>it could be that the filesystem needs to be fsck'd again
01:21<warewolf>davew: in lish type control-a, then d
01:21<davew>once logged in?
01:21<warewolf>davew: that should drop you back to your lish command prompt, and disconnect you from your linode's console
01:21<davew>or at the prompt
01:21<kmkarim>Is anyone still experiencing problems?
01:21<warewolf>hit enter a few times first, then control-a, d
01:21<davew>ok back there
01:21<warewolf>you should see [detached]
01:22<warewolf>what ssh client are you using? does it support logging to a text file?
01:22<davew>using the terminal on os x, so I'd assume
01:22<warewolf>hm, not sure.
01:22<davew>or could I just redirect?
01:23<davew>o, duh
01:23<davew>i have xp vm with putty if thats better?
01:23<warewolf>that would work
01:23<warewolf>I know putty has logging
01:23<warewolf>here's why I want something that has logging -- I'm going to have you run the 'logview' command in lish; that dumps the last (a bunch) of lines that your linode server printed out to it's console
01:24<warewolf>unfortunately, that includes the most recent stuff too, which usually clears the screen.
01:24-!-whatiris [~whatiris@] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone -]
01:24<warewolf>it can make it difficult to capture all the log messages.
01:24<davew>ok, so should i log "all session output"
01:24<davew>or just printable output
01:24<warewolf>printable is fine
01:24<warewolf>turn logging on; then run 'logview' in lish. Nopaste that output
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01:25<davew>logview not found
01:25<warewolf>you dropped back down to the lish prompt, right? control-a, d
01:25<davew>from lish :/
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01:29<davew>ok sorry
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01:30<warewolf>davew: looks like you canceled the fsck you ran under finnix
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01:30<warewolf>davew: and your filesystem is still corrupt, and is missing /etc/fstab to boot :(
01:31<warewolf>00:06 <@jed> vegard: start from this:
01:31<warewolf>try using that as an example fstab
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01:31<warewolf>you already figured out how to run fsck once, do it again but let it finish this time :)
01:31<davew>lol okay, sorry someone said it'd be okay to stop it before it finished
01:32<warewolf>it's ok to stop it, but that won't let it fix the problem :)
01:32<davew>and sorry, this is all greek to me, but where should i put the fstab?
01:32<warewolf>e.g. it's not _destructive_ (usually) to stop a fsck.
01:32<warewolf>davew: in /etc/fstab
01:32<davew>ah, it ran once all the way trhough, i just ran it a second time
01:32<davew>ok, last question: how do i put it there if its read only? in finnix?
01:33-!-whatiris_ [~whatiris@] has joined #linode
01:33<warewolf>mount /where_it_is_mounted -o remount,rw
01:33<davew>from finnix, right?
01:33<warewolf>er, that's if you mount the filsystem under finnix. I havn't used finnix, so I'm not sure if it does it automatically for you or not.
01:33-!-kmkarim [] has joined #linode
01:33<kmkarim>Is anyone still having problems?
01:33<davew>it doesn't but i mounted it earlier
01:33<warewolf>davew: either way, if you let the fsck finish the next time you boot ubuntun normally you should be OK.
01:34<warewolf>kmkarim: what seems to be your issue?
01:34<davew>well, I'll try fsck first, then do the fstab if necessary after
01:34<warewolf>davew: you _will_ need to do the fstab thing after the fsck :)
01:34<davew>ah, okay
01:34<warewolf>davew: otherwise your ubuntu won't boot correctly.
01:34<davew>thank you sooooo much. are you part of the linode staff?
01:35<warewolf>just another customer who happens to know linux pretty well :)
01:35<davew>Hah, I'll say
01:35<davew>I thought I had a decent grasp on linux until tonight. Thanks a ton man, I really appreciate it
01:35<warewolf>davew: you're quite welcome, if anything I'm trying to let the linode staff have a rest for a moment.
01:36*warewolf really should be in bed, too.
01:36-!-db3l [] has joined #linode
01:36<davew>yeah, they deserve it. they worked hard. I'm still super happy with their service; these things happen
01:36<davew>alright, i'm off to try it out. thanks again
01:36<linbot>New news from forums: Announcement: Status update on service outage. in System and Network Status <>
01:37<warewolf>davew: from the amount of bile and hate in the official outage notification thread, you seem to be one of the few souls who are compassionate.
01:38<kyhwana>davew: well, stuff does happen, but apparently _this_ thing shouldn't have happened
01:38<warewolf>I'm not sure there's been an official explanation of what "this" is yet.
01:38<kyhwana>or rather, there should have been more notification/etc. The linodes were actually up, but not according to the monitoring software and they just went through and force reset everything
01:38<warewolf>I'd rather not start a rumor mill, either.
01:39<kyhwana>well, going off the posts in the other thread
01:39<warewolf>enough pain has been shared by those affected already, no need to stick a needle in anyone's eye
01:39*warewolf was not affected, thankfully
01:39*taylor was not affected
01:39*taylor likes rape
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01:39-!-whatiris_ is now known as whatiris
01:39<MrGlass>FYI: linode is awesome. i love you guys and recomend you all the time. taht is all.
01:39<davew>yeah, 've been with linode for a while and never really had an issue, so the track record speaks for itself
01:39<kmkarim>warewolf: I had a linode server running Cpanel DNS only, right now I can ping the ip's of the servers but none of my domains load
01:39<taylor>the problem was
01:39<taylor>they let me in their cage
01:40<taylor>and I decided to jerk off on the switches
01:40<taylor>data corruption
01:40<taylor>i'm sorry.
01:40*kyhwana shrugs "I wasn't affected, which is good, otherwise i'd be pissed, since I was on that fremont node that suffered the raid controller failure a few weeks ago
01:40<warewolf>kmkarim: I don't know much about Cpanel, sorry :/
01:40<warewolf>kyhwana: backups!
01:41<kmkarim>warewolf: Ok, is there a possibiltiy that I just need to let dns stuff re propogate?
01:41<MrGlass>kyhwana: wasnt affected either, but tbh, a few hours down out of the 4 months ive been on linode owudltn be bad\
01:41<taylor>define owudltn
01:42<warewolf>kmkarim: because I don't know cpanel works, I couldn't tell you.
01:42<davew>kyhwana: it did suck to have the raid controller go out but the credit was well worth it
01:42<warewolf>taylor: mtfnpy?
01:42<taylor>hehehe :)
01:42<warewolf>taylor: google it.
01:42<kmkarim>Hrm, is anyone running a DNS server on thier linode and having problems because of the outage?
01:42<davew>alright, time to watch some tube while i wait for fsck
01:43<warewolf>kmkarim: is there a cpanel irc channel you can get help from?
01:43<warewolf>kmkarim: I'm assuming that all of your DNS is managed by your install of CPanel on your linode
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01:44<taylor>lol wtf
01:44<kyhwana>davew: wait, you got credit?
01:45<taylor>I want credit
01:45<kyhwana>kmkarim: that's what secondary DNS is for. O.o
01:45<taylor>for being awesome
01:45-!-greg27 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:45<taylor>does that count?
01:45-!-msmiffy [] has quit [Quit: Smiffy has left the building.]
01:45<taylor>oh hey
01:45<taylor>what's the max upload you guys got from one of your vms?
01:45<taylor>i think i've seen 1mb/s upload
01:45<taylor>obviously it varies, just curious to see what others got..
01:45<kyhwana>Hmm, I think i've gotten ~2MB/s
01:46<kyhwana>I've gotten 1.5MB/s sustained when downloading stuff to home. <3 1.6MB/s ADSL2+
01:46*warewolf heads to bed
01:46<warewolf>davew: good luck on repairing your filesystem
01:46<davew>warewolf: thanks a ton man! I really appreciate it
01:46<warewolf>davew: make sure you're running fsck -y to answer "yes" to all the "can I fix this problem?" questions
01:47<davew>yeah i am :) ty
01:47<davew>have a good night man
01:47<davew>see ya
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01:48-!-jed_ is now known as jed
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01:49<kmkarim>warewolf: Yea, all the DNS was managed by this server then sent out to the servers clustered to it
01:49-!-mode/#linode [+o jed] by ChanServ
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01:52<bkh>Is anyone here from Linode staff? I've been locked out of my linode and can't access the website either due to an IP address change
01:52<amitz>bkh: have tried lish?
01:53<kyhwana>bkh: try lish.
01:53<kyhwana>your linode might've been restarted
01:53-!-davediff [] has joined #linode
01:53<kyhwana>(or turned off)
01:53-!-whatiris__ [~whatiris@] has joined #linode
01:54<davediff>anyone else having networking issues after rebooting?
01:54-!-kmkarim [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:54<bkh>I can't access lich because I don't know the node. I can't login to the website because my ip address changed, so it's sending an e-mail to my account... which is on my linode!
01:55-!-whatiris [~whatiris@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:55-!-whatiris__ is now known as whatiris
01:55<kyhwana>oh dear. Another one of these
01:55<kyhwana>bkh: login to the linode managmer?
01:56<bkh>I cannot log in to the website. I never logged into it from this IP address, so it kindly denies me access and tells me it sent a note about it to my e-mail address
01:56<amitz>bkh: oh. well, if you cant do nothing else, quick page the staff. They will probably fall asleep soon after some chaos today.
01:56<kyhwana>er what
01:56<kyhwana>the linode manager shouldn't have any kind of whitelisting?
01:57<chesty>yet it does
01:57<kyhwana>my home DSL IP changes occasionally and I can login to it fine?
01:57<bkh>I can't even page the staff... without logging in, I can't even send a support ticket!
01:57<bkh>Log in from unverified IP address You are attempting to access this account from an unverified IP address. We've sent an email to the owner of this username requesting that they approve log ins from this IP. You should go check for this email and follow the instructions within.
01:57<amitz>kyhwana: whitelisting requires access to an email address (s)he can't access.
01:57<davediff>eth0 has a different mac address then expected so ignoring....
01:57<kyhwana>oh, right
01:57<kyhwana>Well, that seems kind of foolish to have set that up if your email is hosted on your linode :P
01:58<bob2>but srsly, move your linode account email away from one hosting on your linode
01:58<chesty>bkh: did you change your reverse dns?
01:58<bkh>I didn't set it up. I don't access the web site much and just moved to a new house.
01:58<amitz>anyway, now that it happens, call on of the op name. That will get his/her attention.
01:58-!-whatiris__ [~whatiris@] has joined #linode
01:59<kyhwana>Because frankly, that's dumb.
01:59<davediff>anyone ever have this trouble with eth0 not having expected mac adress?
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02:00<chesty>no, what distro?
02:00<caker>davediff: remove the HWADDR line from /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 , methinks
02:00<caker>bkh: your Linode is waiting for a passphrase to be entered -- do you have Lish access?
02:00-!-xlolevo [] has quit []
02:00<davediff>thanks caker that sounds right...
02:01<bkh>I can't get into the website, so I can't get lish access
02:01<caker>lish is accessible through ssh, too
02:01<chesty>i don't think bkh knows what host he's on
02:01<caker>bkh: I PMed you -- do you see it?
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02:03<CaptObvious|MBP>I've seen the forum thread and it says everything seems to be sorted, but my linode has just gone down.
02:03<CaptObvious|MBP>why weren't we emailed far in advance of this planned maintenance?
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02:05<dustin>Ah. That makes sense.
02:06*dustin waits patiently.
02:06<CaptObvious|MBP>dustin: not bothered that you weren't notified in advance?
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02:07<dustin>Eh, I break stuff on my own from time to time.
02:07<davew>hey guys, anyone able to give me a hand?
02:07*dustin shrugs.
02:07<dustin>Mistakes are easy to make.
02:08<davew>I'm trying to start apache 2 after getting my server up and running and hitting this: "apache2: apr_sockaddr_info_get() failed for apricot"
02:08<Trystan>davew: generally ask the question, and whoever can help, will help when they see it
02:08<davew>ah ty
02:08<davew>also, whenever I use sudo i get sudo: unable to resolve host apricot
02:08<CaptObvious|MBP>dustin: yes, but this isn't an unscheduled downtime. they knew this would be happening in advance
02:09-!-whatiris_ [~whatiris@] has joined #linode
02:09<chesty>davew: cat /etc/hosts
02:09<vreon>davew: for that second issue, make sure your /etc/hosts is up to date
02:09<vreon>I'm setting up my first linode and ran into that myself :p
02:09<Trystan>CaptObvious|MBP: I believe it is unplanned downtime
02:10<CaptObvious|MBP>not according to the thread
02:10<db3l>CaptObvious: They knew the code/library upgrade would be happening, but I assume they do regular updates to their own xen host code all the time.
02:10<CaptObvious|MBP>they're running software updates
02:10-!-jtsage [~jtsage@2001:470:1f0f:114::98:1] has joined #linode
02:10<db3l>So the real problem was that the upgrade created an inconsistent state in the host software unexpectedly.
02:10<Trystan>from what I saw it was planned maintenance, but I dont think the downtime was expected
02:10<davew>okay, pasted it here
02:10-!-whatiris__ [~whatiris@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:11<db3l>What I'm perplexed by at the moment (but awaiting a full post-mortem) is why they needed to forceably reset Linodes on affected hosts that were otherwise operating properly.
02:11<CaptObvious|MBP>but then once the downtimes started happening and they knew more would be happening, they should have emailed people
02:11<db3l>Even if the host status was no longer accurate for its Linodes, they could probably have waited until off hours this evening (per datacenter) to initiate the restarts.
02:11<vreon>davew: add apricot after ubuntu on line 2
02:11<Trystan>CaptObvious|MBP: I would expect a number of people host their email on their systems
02:11<SelfishMan>db3l: because those nodes were going to fail but hadn't yet
02:11<chesty>CaptObvious|MBP: there's a nice forum thread waiting for you to comment on
02:11<CaptObvious|MBP>chesty: I dislike forums
02:12<chesty>CaptObvious|MBP: most of us have already read everything there is to say about the situation
02:12<davew>on a roll, ty
02:12<db3l>SelfishMan: Was that something stated here? The official forum posts only seemed to point to a host monitoring state inconsistency/inaccuracy, not a guaranteed reset.
02:12<db3l>And my Linode reset due to a specific reboot job installed in its queue as opposed to Lassie or something.
02:12<dustin>That explains why I just went down a little while ago.
02:12<dustin>Makes sense.
02:12<Trystan>CaptObvious|MBP: I can see your point though. But its something you gotta look at from both perspectives
02:13<CaptObvious|MBP>they should have notified people.
02:13<Trystan>they did, on the forums
02:13<Trystan>and in here
02:13<SelfishMan>and on twitter
02:13<db3l>Note that I can understand why they eventually needed the reset to recover affected hosts, just not sure why it had to be during business hours. But hopefully a final post-mortem posting on the forum will explain that further.
02:13<SelfishMan> too I think
02:13<Trystan>db3l: its business hours somewhere all the time
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02:14<Trystan>CaptObvious|MBP: re: advance notice
02:14<db3l>Trystan: Granted, but you don't have to work too hard to do better - even just picking early AM hours by data center would have the best probability of affecting fewer users.
02:14<davew>ok guys, now I'm getting "(98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to address" when apache2 tries to start
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02:15<CaptObvious|MBP>davew: it's already running
02:15<Trystan>if they do that (it is possibly an option they should consider for opt in) they would have people complaining about constant spam for minor updates that go through with no effect
02:15<CaptObvious|MBP>Trystan: they should have emailed everybody
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02:15<CaptObvious|MBP>when they realised they needed to start doing restarts
02:15<kyhwana>davew: that means apache (or something else) is already listening on port80?
02:15-!-whatiris [~whatiris@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:16<Trystan>CaptObvious|MBP: as i mentioned, alot of people would be hosting mail on their system, it isnt a reliable way to get through to them
02:16<davew>capt: I tried to restart it but it wouldn't. looks like its hung up
02:16<Trystan>by using third party systems, here, twitter and the forums people have 3 options to check out whats going on
02:16<CaptObvious|MBP>Trystan: but for the people not, the mail would have got to them
02:16<Trystan>but as i already said, an opt in emailing list may be something they should consider
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02:16<db3l>Of course, that assumes that the inconsistent host state could have held out, so hard to say without knowing what was really wrong. But it's just harsh to have to hard reset (not even graceful shutdowns) otherwise working Linodes.
02:17<Trystan>db3l: fwiw, doing it in the early hours would also mean a couple things
02:17<@mikegrb>just one minor additional bit of information, clean shutdowns were not at all possible
02:17<Berto>uh oh... my linode just went down again in CA
02:17<Trystan>firstly, if shit hit the fan, less people to handle support issues
02:17<davew>okay, thanks guys
02:17<davew>finally up and running
02:17<db3l>Trystan: I'd agree - some sort of escalation email contact on an account, used specifically for service messages would be helpful.
02:17<Trystan>or.. if you want people on, then the costs of doing so would be significantly higher
02:18<Trystan>db3l: i'm not a direct customer, but if you like the idea put it to them as a suggestion, they seem to value customer opinion
02:18<Trystan>imho, they handled the problem very well,
02:18<db3l>Trystan: They've got to be 7x24 ops anyway as a service, but yes, if it meant slightly more headcount during this specific window, then that's a consequence of the error.
02:18<Trystan>but perhaps the communication could have been better
02:18-!-Smark is now known as Smark[Gone]
02:19<Trystan>db3l: yes, but 24/7 minimal crew is nothing compared to what they would have on during the business day
02:19<db3l>And from what I can see the resets themselves are regular jobs, which I assume they have tools for enqueueing for all Linodes on hosts, so the actual person time to trigger the resets should be reasonably small. (Of course, some of the followups on problematic Linodes are more)
02:19<Trystan>well, not so much that
02:19<Trystan>but answering support tickets/phone calls etc.
02:19<Trystan>when something goes wrong those systems tend to get hammered :)
02:19<Berto>oh actually i'm in TX. forgot about that
02:19<Berto>but either way i'm not pinging :( is this expected
02:20<db3l>mikegrb: Re: no clean shutdown - was that a consequence of the state the hosts were in?
02:20<@mikegrb>we already have scripts and what not available to preform clean shutdown off all linodes on a host for emergency maintenance or what not
02:21-!-whatiris_ [~whatiris@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:21<db3l>Trystan: Yeah, that's why you bring people in if needed - not fun, but neither is an outage, and actually doing it off hours may have actually helped with the interruptions.
02:21<Berto>uptime 23:21:20 up 8 min ... d'oh
02:21<Trystan>i would expect most people's systems are doing things 24/7
02:21<Trystan>it might not have been noticed as much but it still would have had significant impact
02:22<Trystan>and yes, bringing in people is an option, but again it comes down to cost
02:22<Trystan>If I were paying significantly more, I would expect 2am maintenance
02:22<SelfishMan>I'm just glad fremont97 wasn't an issue
02:22-!-davew [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:22<SelfishMan>large DB operation that has been running for days that should be finishing soon
02:22<Trystan>lol, lucky
02:23<db3l>mikegrb: Was that also why the resets were needed in reasonably short order rather than delaying until more off hours (as much as might be assumed given the timezone of a particular data center)
02:23<@mikegrb>yes, but much more detail will come in a full RFO within 24 hours
02:24<db3l>Fair enough, thanks.
02:24<Trystan>must say.. I love that the stuff I work on is used during the night...
02:24<Trystan>meaning I can take it offline for whatever need be during the day :D
02:24<db3l>Guess that depends on your work schedule - I like having the nights to do my development so I can make a new release for the next day.
02:25<Trystan>well this is very specific infrastructure
02:25<db3l>But I've had my share of serious 7x24 systems - it wears on you over time.
02:25<Trystan>Yea, my previous job was like that lol
02:26-!-nornagon_ is now known as nornagon
02:27-!-MarkJ [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
02:27<db3l>This is actually my first (in about 15 years) that isn't 7x24 either due to usage or timezones, so it's a nice break on that front.
02:27<Trystan>my last one was a pain in the ass.
02:28<Trystan>loving this one though :D
02:28<Trystan>most of the time its set and forget
02:28<Trystan>and i idle here and entertain myself
02:28<Trystan>like.. now
02:28-!-mrsteveman1 [] has left #linode []
02:28-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:29<db3l>Nice - can't say I've reached idle status yet, but it's a startup, so not expecting it.
02:30<db3l>Speaking of which, gotta go prep some data change for tomorrow morning - nice chatting. And thanks mikegrb for the information.
02:30<Trystan>lol, yea im just on call 24/7
02:32-!-db3l [] has quit [Quit: db3l]
02:34<chesty>who needs a beer?
02:34-!-Volcane [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
02:34<dustin>Sweet. Back up.
02:35*dustin huggles whoever runs this show.
02:35-!-packeteer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:35<@mikegrb>anybody in here around and down?
02:36<HedgeMage>I'm around, but I'm back up :)
02:36<Trystan>you offer counciling too?
02:36*Trystan hops on the couch
02:36<chesty>i'm so depressed
02:36-!-Clorith [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:36-!-ph_ [~ph^] has joined #linode
02:36<Trystan>well mikegrb I dunno where to start...
02:37-!-bogdanbiv [~quassel@] has joined #linode
02:37-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
02:37*mikegrb hands chesty an elephant gun
02:37<Trystan>oh cool!
02:37<Trystan>can i get one too!
02:38*chesty shoots Trystan
02:38<Trystan>thats no fair
02:38-!-mode/#linode [+q Trystan!*@*] by mikegrb
02:38<@mikegrb>Trystan: you can't talk now, you are dead
02:39-!-mode/#linode [-q Trystan!*@*] by mikegrb
02:39<chesty>he's a zombie, arrrg
02:40-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has joined #linode
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02:41<vreon>on that note
02:41<vreon>g'night all
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02:52<Nickste>Hi all - what's the update on the problems? Our server is still inaccessible via http, although I can ssh in. Restarted a while ago due to not being able to make any contact. In Atlanta
02:52<chesty>what distro?
02:53<rainman_>hm, my linode on newark3 rebooted twice last night
02:53<Nickste>ubuntu 9.04
02:54<Nickste>Did a restart about 30 mins ago - should I try again?
02:54<caker>Nickste: which Linode?
02:54<chesty>rainman_: did you just wake up?
02:55<Nickste>atlanta73 and atlanta 41
02:55<caker>lots of other Linodes on those hosts. Can you be more specific, please?
02:55-!-Clorith [] has joined #linode
02:56-!-mode/#linode [+o caker] by ChanServ
02:56<rainman_>chesty, yes
02:56<Nickste>errrr - how can I be more specific?
02:56<@caker> username, or linode IP addresses
02:56<chesty>rainman_: you missed all the fun
02:57<StevenK>Heh, 'fun'
02:57<Nickste>@caker zissu is username, and ip: and
02:57<CaptObvious|MBP>so if my BNC is giving me connection refused, am I wasting my time trying to diagnose it even though I can SSH in?
02:58<Nickste>Getting this when I try and restart apache:
02:58-!-arthurb [] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
02:58<StevenK>Nickste: Something is already listening on port 80
02:58<StevenK>Nickste: Stop apache, and run 'fuser 80/tcp' as root
02:58<@caker>Nickste: look at's console -- it's waiting for a passphrase
02:59<@caker>Nickste: same with
02:59-!-Coderjoe|work [] has quit [Quit: "There's 68.71% chance you should DELETE THE FREAKING FILE!" -- Riff Raff Theater's TRON iRiff]
03:00-!-Berto [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:00<Nickste>@caker - can I just ssh in, or through linode console?
03:00<Nickste>ok, in on linode, 1 sec
03:02-!-dustin [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
03:02-!-atambo [~atambo@ATAMB0.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:03-!-bkh [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:03-!-lesterc [] has quit [Quit: lesterc]
03:03<Nickste>@caker - ok, in on - what now?
03:04<@caker>Nickste: on the console, or just ssh?
03:07<Nickste>@caker - I did it through console. Ok, seems like we're back online now?
03:07<Nickste>What did you end up doing?
03:07<@caker>me? nothing
03:07<@caker>you entered your passphrase, I presume
03:07-!-chris2 [] has joined #linode
03:08<Nickste>oh right... so when it was rebooted no one entered ssh passphrase
03:09<rainman_>chesty, can you summarize? :)
03:09<bob2>you keep your ssh private key encrypted?
03:10<bob2>or is this a ssl cert?
03:10<chesty>rainman_: check the forum, there's a url in the topic
03:11-!-chris2 [] has quit []
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03:12<rainman_>ah, interesting
03:12<rainman_>the first reply clearly doesn't understand - if you want your stuff to stay up, you don't completely rely on a single host :)
03:13<Nickste>*ssl passphrase
03:13-!-nothingmuch [] has joined #linode
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03:14<rainman_>in fact, a lot of people in that thread don't understand :>
03:14-!-kelvinq [] has left #linode []
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03:15<Nickste>Thanks for the quick support guys - really makes a difference to have a hosting company that I can talk to!
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03:17<@pparadis_>hi anson
03:17<anson>i still have 2 instances down
03:17<@pparadis_>what's your linode username?
03:17<anson>and i was not able to login to the portal
03:17<@pparadis_>hang on
03:18<anson>instances ending in 51 and 52
03:18<@pparadis_>looking at your console, it's asking for a runlevel.
03:18<anson>or linode2 and 3
03:18-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:19<@pparadis_>looks like your inittab is out of whack.
03:19<@pparadis_>hang on
03:19<@caker>anson: one moment and we'll resolve that for you
03:19-!-Deckert [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:20<anson>i really like the multiple contact options you folks have
03:23<@mikegrb>anson: on it like phil on anything with legs
03:23-!-Twayne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:24-!-Jonno [] has joined #linode
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03:26<@caker>anson: Linode "anson2" should be back in business now
03:26<@mikegrb>anson: anson1 done
03:26<anson>thanks guys
03:26<@mikegrb>caker: you dirty liar
03:26<@mikegrb>caker: unless you did anson2
03:26<@mikegrb>linode02 == anson1
03:27<@caker>whichever one I did it was broken :)
03:27<anson>is the linode manager down?
03:27<anson>they are both pingable now
03:27-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
03:27<anson>nagios is happy
03:28-!-ekes [] has joined #linode
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03:30-!-Deckert_za [] has joined #linode
03:31<anson>thanks guys!
03:31-!-anson [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:32<CaptObvious|MBP>finally got my server back running properly
03:33-!-dvdm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:34<chesty>what was wrong?
03:35-!-dvdm [] has joined #linode
03:36<GatorKram>what are all you people doing in my computer room, oh wait, never mind
03:36<CaptObvious|MBP>linode decided to reboot it while a load of people were playing on my openttd server
03:37<CaptObvious|MBP>so the game they spent hours on is just gone
03:37<CaptObvious|MBP>oh plus my IRC BNC was on the fritz
03:37<GatorKram>oh man, I think I am going to cry now
03:37<GatorKram>screw crying, get me a rope, this is the end of it all
03:37<GatorKram>whats openttd?
03:38<GatorKram>that doesnt look like an answer to the question, more a "here, this is it"
03:38<tkoskine>openttd is open source clone of transport tycoon.
03:38-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:39<GatorKram>that I kinda-sorta understand
03:39<GatorKram>how many damn "tycoon" games did they make, hehe
03:39<chesty>tycoon tycoon is my favourite
03:40<GatorKram>I heard they are working on tycoon 2 tycoon
03:40<GatorKram>its more rumor than fact I think
03:40<GatorKram>but you never know
03:41<CaptObvious|MBP>right, 7:41am
03:41<GatorKram>gn CaptObvious|MBP
03:41-!-CaptObvious|MBP [] has quit [Quit: CaptObvious|MBP]
03:41<GatorKram>they need to make, like street-whore tycoon
03:42<GatorKram>and have really good graphics
03:42<GatorKram>youd make a killing for sure
03:43<GatorKram>just the guys who play wow, and make female toons, because, you know, male toons are ugly to look at, man, dudes playing chicks getting laid 24/7... do I even need to go on
03:44<GatorKram>billions for sure
03:44<GatorKram>damn it
03:44<GatorKram>and here I am giving away my great idea for free
03:44<GatorKram>forget everything I said
03:45*GatorKram runs off to start on street-whores tycoon alpha .01
03:45<GatorKram>come on, everyone cant be idle, I must be able to get at least 1 damn lol
03:45<GatorKram>not you bot boy
03:45<GatorKram>I KNEW I should have said 2
03:46*GatorKram frowns
03:46-!-TheFirst [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:46<GatorKram>damn it, I better run over to godaddy, and register streetwhoretycoon before someone else in here does
03:46<GatorKram>damn it
03:46-!-HedgeMage [] has quit [Quit: Bedtime!]
03:47<GatorKram>you bastards better not
03:47-!-midasza [~midasza@] has joined #linode
03:47-!-Deckert_ [] has joined #linode
03:47<GatorKram>hmm, maybe I should register it with, and without the -
03:47-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
03:48-!-rogi [] has joined #linode
03:48<GatorKram>streetwhore does look better than street-whore, but damn it, I said it with a - in here, so you bastards know yer gonna bogart my domain, and rediect it to some stupid site
03:48<midasza>The mac address on eth0 changed on my linode - is this change permanent or will I need to be changing it back at some later stage?
03:48-!-Deckert_za [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:48<GatorKram>oh man, a real question
03:49*GatorKram turns on his lurk cloak, waiting for answers
03:49-!-amitzz [~MtvIRC_us@] has joined #linode
03:49<@caker>midasza: remove the HWADDR line from /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 , and I think that'll fix it
03:50<GatorKram>shh, Im lurking, stop looking at me
03:50*amitzz stares at gatorkam's background.
03:50*amitzz stares at gatorkam's background.
03:50*GatorKram was last overseen typing pico /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 in his linode shell (ok not really)
03:50<midasza>oh i have already fixed it and removing that line will work - that however wasnt my question. Is the change permanent or will it change again?
03:51<GatorKram>amitzz: come on man, how many Z's do you need, yer like, hogging them all
03:52<amitzz>until i'm awake.
03:52<GatorKram>man, alright, but geez
03:52<GatorKram>i wanted to type geezz, but I didnt think I could risk it
03:53<GatorKram>oh man, now look what you made me do
03:53<GatorKram>we are so gonna run out of z's tonight
03:54<GatorKram>alright, lets see, what other weird random stuff can I come up with, someone give me something
03:54<amitzz>why not geeezz instead? i heard plenty of e in english unlike z :-p
03:54<GatorKram>you STILL used 2 z's dude
03:54<GatorKram>damn it
03:54<GatorKram>say geeeez
03:55<amitzz>geeeeee, you're too unfun.
03:55<GatorKram>I am going to have to escalate this z issue to level 2 support, its out of my hands now
03:55<GatorKram>the ticket is open, Im done with it
03:55<GatorKram>unfun? oh come on man
03:55-!-kelvinq [] has joined #linode
03:55<amitzz>don't you just spent the last z!
03:55<GatorKram>Im sure level 2 will be able to figure something out
03:56<GatorKram>they get paid more
03:56<GatorKram>they damn well better fix it
03:56<GatorKram>oh snap
03:56<GatorKram>email already
03:56<GatorKram>"we are aware of the issue, and are working on a solution"
03:56<GatorKram>wow, they are quick
03:57<GatorKram>I wonder, how they were already aware of the issue
03:57<GatorKram>and like
03:57<GatorKram>how long have they been working on this so called solution
03:57<GatorKram>maybe I should reply, and ask
03:58<GatorKram>these questions are very important after all
03:58<GatorKram>and making them spend more time on this ticket, you know, should be good
03:58<GatorKram>thats it, Ill do it
03:58<GatorKram>reply sent....
03:58<GatorKram>hope they reply as fast as last time
03:59<GatorKram>wow, email already, these level 2 guys are great
03:59<GatorKram>"your ticket can not be found in the system, please open a new ticket"
03:59<GatorKram>huh? damn it
03:59<GatorKram>what the hell
04:00<GatorKram>alright, time for a new ticket I guess, wonder what happened...
04:00-!-River_Rat [] has joined #linode
04:00<GatorKram>there we go
04:00<GatorKram>ticket open
04:00*GatorKram checks his email
04:00<GatorKram>oh man, no way
04:00<GatorKram>same reply
04:00<GatorKram>word for word
04:00<GatorKram>"we are aware of the issue, and are working on a solution"
04:01<GatorKram>maybe Ill just wait this time
04:01<GatorKram>but I sure do wonder
04:01-!-kjkjkjkj [] has joined #linode
04:01<GatorKram>maybe I should reply....
04:01<GatorKram>they must be busy
04:01<GatorKram>I mean, they are already working on a solution
04:02<GatorKram>but.....still.... I wonder..
04:02<GatorKram>nope, no, not gonna do it
04:02<GatorKram>Ill wait
04:02<GatorKram>how long has my ticket been open?
04:02<GatorKram>its hard to really understand their reply
04:02<GatorKram>they are aware of the issue... damn it, fix it already
04:03<GatorKram>why did I have to open a damn ticket at all
04:03<GatorKram>working on a solution
04:03<GatorKram>thats pretty darn vague
04:03<GatorKram>damn it
04:04<GatorKram>they really should have emailed me, and let me know, they had a z shortage issue, and to let me know, they were working on it too
04:04<GatorKram>then I wouldnt need to open a ticket
04:05<GatorKram>i wonder, what happened to my first ticket, that was weird
04:05<GatorKram>maybe I should open a ticket about that too
04:05<GatorKram>can you do that?
04:05<GatorKram>open a ticket about the ticket system
04:05<@caker>are you high?
04:05-!-RiverRat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:06<@caker>ok, carry on
04:06<GatorKram>I think the whole ticket thing has run its corse
04:06-!-kjkjkjkj [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:07<GatorKram>I wonder, if I was high....
04:07<GatorKram>super high me... what a movie
04:08<scorche>holy hell...54 lines without interruption...
04:08<GatorKram>think its a record?
04:08<GatorKram>maybe I should try to break that record
04:08-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:08<GatorKram>did you read them, and then count them
04:09<GatorKram>or were you just like, wow, and start counting
04:09<bob2>not the good kind of record
04:09<GatorKram>ahhh come on bob2
04:09-!-edwardvk [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:09<GatorKram>its low cost entertainment
04:09<chesty>more like a broken record
04:09<GatorKram>I didnt repete myself that much
04:09<GatorKram>Ill try to be less repedative in the future
04:09<GatorKram>it was part of the story
04:09<amitzz>hmm a historical event. linode's black thursday. bed time story for my great grand children.
04:10<chesty>it's thrusday?
04:10-!-jarib [] has joined #linode
04:10<GatorKram>wow, and here I thought the timezones only covered 24 hours
04:10<GatorKram>are you like, on mars or something?
04:10<amitzz>oh sorry. amitcentric was talking.
04:10-!-elky [] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me]
04:11-!-elky [] has joined #linode
04:11-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
04:11<GatorKram>damn it scorche, you didnt answer my question
04:11<amitzz>oh, it's wed..
04:12<GatorKram>I think I did say damn it a lot
04:12<GatorKram>that was pretty repedativeish
04:12<scorche>GatorKram: then stop already
04:12<GatorKram>stop? really? are my lines of text, that disturbing
04:12<GatorKram>maybe wars could be faught this way
04:12-!-elky [] has quit []
04:12<GatorKram>oh no, 54 lines of text
04:12-!-bob2 [] has left #linode []
04:13-!-elky [] has joined #linode
04:13<GatorKram>hit em with 60 boys!
04:13<GatorKram>that will surely win the war
04:13-!-MarkQtty [] has joined #linode
04:14<GatorKram>you would be surprised, or... maybe not... in an envirenment, setup, even, designed for it, you know, text based communication, how many times I run into people, complaining to me about how I do it to much
04:14<GatorKram>its odd
04:14<GatorKram>so many people.... idle idle idle
04:15<GatorKram>what are they afraid they might miss?
04:15<GatorKram>hey MarkQtty
04:15*jercos drops out of warm and pokes GatorKram
04:15<MarkQtty>someone know if the problem of the topic 4765
04:15<MarkQtty>also is on fremont host?
04:16<GatorKram>is that your complete question/comment?
04:16<GatorKram>its kinda... I dont know
04:16<GatorKram>not very ... whats the word...
04:17<GatorKram>are YOU having an issue?
04:17<GatorKram>or do you just wanna find out if the rest of us are suffering
04:17<GatorKram>my understanding, is everything is pretty much cleaned up
04:18*GatorKram does not compute "fremont host" and can no longer address this issue
04:19<MarkQtty>i have a issues at this time
04:19<@irgeek_>MarkQtty: It did affect some hosts in Fremont. If your host was one of them there will be a "Host initiated restart" job in your queue.
04:19<GatorKram>where did that smart guy caker run off to
04:19<GatorKram>oh wait, shhh another smart guy with answers
04:20*GatorKram waits for MarkQtty to reply
04:20<GatorKram>this is live drama folks, stay tuned
04:20<MarkQtty>yes the last
04:21<MarkQtty>works that i saw in the job list of my vps
04:21<MarkQtty>it's "Lassie initiated boot"
04:21<GatorKram>did it fail? are you offline? shutdown? running?
04:21<MarkQtty>so i had tried a reboot....
04:21<GatorKram>ahh more info... woohoo
04:21-!-pootaro [] has joined #linode
04:21<MarkQtty>the system rebooted but not works, if
04:21<MarkQtty>i try to connect via ssh don't accept my connection at all..
04:22*GatorKram waits for smart guy to offer more advice
04:22<midasza>MarkQtty is it a centos 5 box by any chance?
04:22<MarkQtty>no, it's a fedora
04:22<GatorKram>I had that issue, like hours and hours ago, and just issued another reboot, and poof, all was well
04:22<GatorKram>how long again did you reboot?
04:22-!-Syrogen [~asdas@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:22<MarkQtty>15 mintues
04:23<GatorKram>ok, over my head
04:23<GatorKram>did you try the lish thingie?
04:23<@irgeek_>MarkQtty: What's the IP so I can find it?
04:23*GatorKram quiets down
04:23<MarkQtty>via lish i can connect
04:23<MarkQtty>and still in rc.3
04:23<midasza>with any error?
04:23<GatorKram>is... it like, stuck someplace, in the boot sequence?
04:24<MarkQtty>yes is it
04:24<MarkQtty>no error appear
04:24<GatorKram>whats the last line?
04:24<MarkQtty>EXT3 FS on xvda, internal journal
04:24<GatorKram>something about? file system? network? uh...
04:25<GatorKram>ahh file system
04:25<@irgeek_>MarkQtty: What's the IP so I can find it?
04:25*GatorKram waits for more smart guy
04:25*GatorKram pokes MarkQtty
04:25<MarkQtty>the ip is
04:28<@irgeek_>There's traffic on other ports flowing in and out on that IP. Is it possibly a firewall issue?
04:28<@irgeek_>Or maybe SSH config?
04:28<MarkQtty>firewall is not changed
04:28*GatorKram looks over at MarkQtty
04:28<MarkQtty>and i think that the problem
04:28<MarkQtty>is that boot is not completed
04:29<MarkQtty>try to reboot again
04:29<GatorKram>if it "worked" 15m ago, and isnt still in your "Q" I dont think... well anyway, more from smart guy
04:32<GatorKram>I can not ping/trace that ip, unreachable, ssh times out on default port 22, are you running http or anything else to test?
04:32<MarkQtty>now the system it's powered off
04:32<MarkQtty>i'm wait that still back online
04:33<MarkQtty>also this new boot it's very very slow...
04:33-!-SDjernes1 [] has joined #linode
04:33<GatorKram>I had issues with slow boot, when all hell was flying around
04:33<GatorKram>but its gone
04:33-!-acehost [] has joined #linode
04:34<GatorKram>seems, almost like, you are in the butt end of all of this, and just now getting clean for you guys?
04:34<GatorKram>just a guess
04:34<MarkQtty>sorry Gator, but i cannot understand your last reply (i'm not english)
04:34<GatorKram>no problem
04:35<GatorKram>I was trying to say, the issues that were going on today, seemed to be fixed, over time, and maybe you are still in the clean up stages on your host
04:35<GatorKram>total guess on my part
04:35<MarkQtty>ah ok...
04:35<MarkQtty>i hope so
04:35<GatorKram>but you do seem to be discribing events I had today
04:35<GatorKram>which for me, are all gone now
04:36<MarkQtty>ok, i'm tried to open a ticket on linode
04:36<GatorKram>but again, total guess
04:36<MarkQtty>an i hope that someone can give a check
04:36<GatorKram>irgeek_ is helping you
04:36<GatorKram>Im not sure its gone past, he saw traffic on your ip, and the firewall questions
04:37<GatorKram>did your node come back up, or did you leave it shutdown?
04:37<GatorKram>leaving it shutdown, of course, makes it really hard to try and fix
04:38<MarkQtty>no at all
04:38<linbot>New news from forums: INIT: no more processes left in this runlevel [SOLVED] in General Discussion <>
04:38<MarkQtty>'m not leaving in shutdown...
04:38-!-amitzz [~MtvIRC_us@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:38<GatorKram>you saying, the node look hung in lish, doesnt really mesh with someone seeing traffic in and out either
04:38-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:39<GatorKram>so its running, as far as the control panel says?
04:39<MarkQtty>yes, but the boot it's almost completed...
04:40<GatorKram>it IS ping replying now
04:40<GatorKram>connection refused for ssh on port 22
04:40<GatorKram>the rest is up to you
04:41-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
04:42<GatorKram>progress MarkQtty?
04:42-!-tsp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:43<MarkQtty>i'm try my best :-)
04:44<@irgeek_>MarkQtty: I'm not finding anything weird on the server side. If you can shutdown for a few minutes I can check the boot image for errors.
04:44<GatorKram>ok, so you can fix stuff while its shutdown, lol
04:44*GatorKram is maybe not being so helpful
04:45<Clorith>ok, how the hell can you check what format a .txt is in (what chrrset it's made in)
04:45<Clorith>I am so sick of charset issues I want to scream
04:45<Clorith>finally got utf-8 working in general on one of my servers, now a textfile it generates isn't becoming UTF-8 aparently...
04:45-!-Tallken [] has joined #linode
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04:46<amitz>Clorith: oh, still struggling with that font...
04:46<GatorKram>wow, if its really a .txt file, like, from notepad, or something, I dont think it has formatting information
04:46<Clorith>I made it work on the server
04:46<Clorith>now it's just a single .txt document that is created by the server
04:46<MarkQtty>if i shutdown the server
04:46-!-Tallken [] has quit []
04:46<MarkQtty>you can give a check?
04:46<GatorKram>that seems to be where you are MarkQtty
04:46<Clorith>GatorKram, that's what I said as well, but this guy insists it HAS to be UTF-8...
04:47-!-Deckert_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:47<GatorKram>I guess that would be dependent, on the default charset of the system it was created on
04:48<Clorith>well, I sent the charset=UTF-8 in the headers when I create the .txt file as well to be on the safe side
04:48<GatorKram>which it sounds like, is your server, so... whats the default?
04:48<MarkQtty>irgeek_: if I shutdown the server , can you give a check?
04:48<Clorith>the default is utf-8
04:48<GatorKram>MarkQtty: he said he could check the file system for errors
04:48-!-Keverw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:48<Clorith>like, the file reads fine on a computer
04:48<Clorith>but once you trannsfer it to a PDA, it goes haywire
04:49-!-zox [] has joined #linode
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04:50<GatorKram>well, that sure opens up another whole can of worms Clorith
04:50-!-irgeek_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:50-!-irgeek [] has joined #linode
04:50-!-mode/#linode [+o irgeek] by ChanServ
04:50<Clorith>I wish to kill whoever decided we needed more then 1 universal charset.
04:50-!-ultrafredde [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:51<Clorith>do you think I could force utf-8 by adding a hex to the start of the file?
04:52<Clorith>EF BB BF aparently marks a textfile as utf-8, how I would add taht without it adding text I do not know though
04:52<GatorKram>the viewer/reader on the pda, would need to know that
04:53-!-irgeek [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:53<GatorKram>the real question is, what are you using to view the file, on the pc
04:53-!-jarib [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
04:53<GatorKram>to verify, the file is "ok"
04:54-!-irgeek [] has joined #linode
04:54-!-mode/#linode [+o irgeek] by ChanServ
04:54<Clorith>regular notepad of course
04:54<Clorith>and comparing it to a "working" notepad file, they're identicalthough
04:54<GatorKram>resave the file
04:54<Clorith>there's no messed up characters or anything
04:54<GatorKram>in notepad
04:54<GatorKram>then send to pda
04:54<Clorith>I wish I had a pda now >-<
04:54<Clorith>one of their PDAs, hehe
04:55<@irgeek>Sorry, irssi wigged out.
04:55<GatorKram>my guess is, it looks fine in notepad, but its not really saved in a format, the pda reader understands
04:55<GatorKram>youd need to hex edit the file, on the pc, to see if its truely formatless
04:56<GatorKram>or, do several other things, to view the file, in an editor/viewer, that can show the real deal
04:56<GatorKram>none come to mind
04:56<GatorKram>that is my guess
04:56<Clorith>yeah...I need to figure this out :s
04:57<Clorith>does notepad save if there's no change though?
04:57<GatorKram>my first thought, is the viewer on the pda, sucks
04:57<GatorKram>add a . if you think its not saving
04:58<GatorKram>depending on your version of notepad, you better make sure its truely set to use .txt format too
04:58<GatorKram>you can save in all types of junk, in some versions of notepad
04:59<GatorKram>in mine, you can screw up, and even change the encoding scheme
04:59<GatorKram>you could put utf-8 in mine, but the default is ANSI
04:59<GatorKram>and I know ansi is not going to include ANY formatting
05:00<GatorKram>utf-8, no idea
05:00<GatorKram>my guess, is yes it would have formating
05:00<GatorKram>which might be blowing the pda's viewers mine
05:00<GatorKram>mind even/
05:01<Clorith>there's no actual formatting
05:01<GatorKram>this is all pure speculation on my part
05:01<Clorith>there's just norwegian characters being read incorrectly (indicating mixed charsets)
05:01<GatorKram>but if ANSI is the default, in notepad, and uft-8 is an option, then something has to be in the file, indicating its in utf-8, as ANSI is the default asumption
05:02<GatorKram>MS-DOS days were so much easier
05:02<GatorKram>1 font, 1 charset, no screwing around
05:02<@irgeek>MarkQtty: Did you get SSHed in? It looks like there's an active session right now.
05:03*GatorKram pokes MarkQtty
05:04<GatorKram>irgeek: ssh is answering on port 22
05:04<GatorKram>on the ip he said was his
05:04<Clorith>why can't everyone jsut write in english?
05:04<Clorith>then this wouldn't be an issue regardless of charset!
05:04<GatorKram>Clorith: lol
05:04*GatorKram pokes mikegrb
05:05<GatorKram>I truely overuse the term l.o.l., as indicated by the bot mikegrb responding to all of them, and bringing it to my attention
05:06<GatorKram>but what are ya gonna do
05:06<GatorKram>I like to l.o.l.
05:06<GatorKram>I also like to "heh"
05:06<GatorKram>they are sorta interchangable, in my vocabulary anyway
05:06<GatorKram>a "heh" is just a smaller version of, l.o.l
05:06<Clorith>there yo ugo
05:06<Clorith>use it wisely, young padwan.
05:07-!-chemosh [] has joined #linode
05:07<GatorKram>Id never remember to use lul
05:07<Clorith>for soem reason, people in norway actualyl say "lael"
05:07<Clorith>(itæs spelt læl)
05:07<Clorith>don't ask
05:07<chesty>try rofl instead
05:07<Clorith>retarded people
05:08<GatorKram>buested chesty
05:08<GatorKram>more than 1 auto-reply
05:08<@mikegrb>mmm cake
05:08<chesty>if you're happy and you know it say mmm cake
05:08<@mikegrb>mmm cake
05:08<chesty>if you're happy and you know it say mmm cake
05:08<chesty>if you're happy and you know it and you really want to show it if you're happy and you know it say mmm cake
05:09-!-MarkQtty [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:10<GatorKram>so let me see if I get this straight, lol
05:10<GatorKram>thats a *lol* match
05:10<GatorKram>but mmm cake, is not
05:10<chemosh>Hi, seems my /etc/fstab is børked after yesterday's outage. Filesystem is now readonly and i'm not so sure what to do.
05:10<GatorKram>mmm cake, is only a mmm cake* match
05:10<GatorKram>wow, not even * just mmk cake, period
05:11<chesty>it's just cake, but it's throttled now
05:11<GatorKram>so "mmm cake"
05:11<chesty>chemosh: an op will be with you shortly
05:11<GatorKram>anyway, I think ive had enough fun for today, or is it yesterday... both
05:11<GatorKram>I am off to sleep
05:12<@mikegrb>chesty: hello, username?
05:12<GatorKram>see you all the next time something goes poof on my linode, and if history is any judge, it will be a long time
05:12-!-pootaro [] has quit [Quit: pootaro]
05:12<chesty>mikegrb: wrong nick
05:12-!-tk8 [] has joined #linode
05:12<GatorKram>gn all
05:12<@mikegrb>chemosh: username?
05:12<@mikegrb>chesty: no, I wanted your username too
05:12<chemosh>mikegrb: ljs
05:13<chesty>mikegrb: sexy
05:13-!-GatorKram [] has quit []
05:13<@mikegrb>chemosh: imma make it all better, stand by
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05:16<Solver>if the linode console has an job listed as "Host initiated restart
05:16<Solver>does that mean that the virtual box had crashed and the host rebooted it?
05:17<checkers>Solver: linode exploded earlier today
05:17<Solver>ah :)
05:17<Solver>things back to normal now?
05:17<checkers>there's a forum link in the topic
05:17<Solver>cool thanks
05:18<chesty>yo mikegrb, I am real happy for you, and imma gonna let you finish, but cheapvps had the best down time of all time
05:19-!-ph_ [~ph^] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
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05:20-!-ph_ [~ph^] has joined #linode
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05:21<mikekarp>Hi, need some help from a Linode employee. My server seems to be down and I can't gain access to my management account. My linode server is
05:22-!-MarkQtty [] has joined #linode
05:22*encode points at the topic
05:22<@mikegrb>chemosh: fscked your image replaced fstab, boot looks okay but it wants root password for maintenance or ^d to continue, not sure why
05:22<@mikegrb>chemosh: have you dist-upgraded to karmic by any chance?
05:23<chemosh>will check
05:23<@mikegrb>you might try hitting ^d I can't seem to do it from my term
05:23-!-pzn [~pzn@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:23-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:24<MarkQtty>for all that had follow my problem several minutes appear that the server is up...and the problem is about ldap daemons that don't start....
05:24<Clorith>so exactly which hosts were affected yesterday?
05:24<@mikegrb>mikekarp: I just kicked off a new boot job for you will see
05:24<Clorith>I noticed all my firends had issues, but I found mine to be quite reachable and happily trotting along
05:24<@mikegrb>mikekarp: boot failed going to take a look but it should be easy to fix
05:25<mikekarp>Thanks Mikegrb
05:26<@mikegrb>chemosh: I successfully fscked it and on that boot it did say it was clean
05:30<chemosh>Cheers. Noticed the same thing.
05:31-!-dvdm [] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
05:32<@mikegrb>chemosh: weird congrats
05:33<mikekarp>I'm up
05:33<@mikegrb>mikekarp: almost done booting
05:33<@mikegrb>heh k
05:33-!-MarkQtty [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:33<chemosh>mikegrb: ran fsck through ajaxterm, said it was indeed clean. Its working again :). Cheers!
05:33<@mikegrb>chemosh: yeah
05:36-!-ph^_ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:36<mikekarp>Thanks mikegrb. All ok. Bye
05:36-!-dvdm [] has joined #linode
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05:39<@mikegrb>mikekarp: excellent
05:39<jimmy1>morning all - linode - please consider making memory upgrades cheaper!!
05:40<jimmy1>i'd like to pop another 1gb memory in my linode!
05:40<jimmy1>or maybe 2
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05:44<rtbarnard>For a normal Linode configuration, is the "root device" section of the profile configuration editor supposed to be set as "read-only" or "read-write?"
05:44-!-MarkQtty [] has joined #linode
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05:45<amitz>so... I want to run fsck on my shutted down linode. I'm accessing linode console from ajax. then what? fsck doesn't work.
05:46-!-AndrewLuecke [~kvirc@2002:7a6b:8d21:0:957f:7a2a:b8d4:a10a] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:47<amitz>pressing enter says "There is no screen to be attached matching linode????? . Is ????? my linode number? how to find out?
05:47<@mikegrb>amitz: I can do it from the host for you if you'd like
05:48<amitz>mikegrb: oh, thanks, please do. I'll learn about how to do it myself later. Anybody want to explain?
05:48<@mikegrb>linode username?
05:48<@mikegrb>ok, working on it, in the meantime,
05:48<@mikegrb>you can read through that
05:54<@mikegrb>amitz: all done, passed with flying colors
05:55-!-getsmart [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
05:56-!-amitz_ [~amitz@] has joined #linode
05:56<amitz_>mikegrb: thanks mikegrb :-)
05:57-!-amitz [~amitz@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:58-!-amitz_ [~amitz@] has quit []
05:58<@mikegrb>no problem
05:58-!-amitz [~amitz@] has joined #linode
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06:06-!-chemosh [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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06:07<Peng_>I don't like dallas153. dallas62 never got rebooted. :P
06:13*mikegrb reboots dallas62
06:14*HoopyCat hits ctrl-alt-defeat
06:14<rtbarnard>Should all Linodes be back up now, or is work still progressing on getting things back up and running?
06:14<@irgeek>rtbarnard: Everyone should be up, barring a few weird problems.
06:14-!-tk8 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:15*irgeek stabs CentOS
06:15<Peng_>It's funny, rebooting to upgrade my kernel had been on my to-do list. Thanks for taking care of it for me. :D
06:15<Yaakov>irgeek: What that "few weird problems" crack a reference to me?!
06:15<@mikegrb>Yaakov: yes
06:16<rtbarnard>irgeek: So should I open another support ticket since I still can't get into my Linode? I still have an open ticket from last night when the problems first became apparent--I just got the stock reply everyone was getting at that point.
06:16<Yaakov>But I love you.
06:16<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: ticket number or username
06:16<Clorith>what a coinsidence, Yaakov is a weird proble mi nmy book too!
06:16<@irgeek>I don't think you're personally affecting Linodes. Yet.
06:16<rtbarnard>Username: rtbarnard; Ticket #: 106768
06:16<@mikegrb>or wait
06:16<@mikegrb>irgeek: is rtbarnard the guy you were working on earlier?
06:17-!-dvdm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:17<Peng_>OK, now, why the fuck am I getting ~83 KB/s of NTP traffic from one IP?
06:17<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Yes, irgeek was helping me around 4:30a Eastern.
06:17<Yaakov>mikegrb: You guys are the best. Don't let the ninnies make you think otherwise.
06:18<Yaakov>Peng_: Your iptabes are misconfigured.
06:18<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: well since he sucked so bad for you, Imma actually fix your problems
06:18<Yaakov>iptables, that is.
06:18<Yaakov>My eyes are acting goofed up today.
06:19<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: seemed to boot cleanly, what kind of issue are you having?
06:19<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: or just the failed previous boots that were the problem
06:19<Peng_>It's dropped to 60 KB/s. Like that's actually okay.
06:19<HoopyCat>p.s. <3 Latest 2.6 Paravirt kernel option
06:19<Yaakov>Though I don't look at the keyboard to type, I *do* depend on feedback from the screen, it turns out.
06:20<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Once I try to log in using Lish, the system hangs.
06:20<HoopyCat>Yaakov: when iptables, i suspect my kidneys are goofed more so than my eyes
06:20<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: can you log in via ssh?
06:21<Peng_>Actually, is iftop in bits or bytes?
06:21-!-dvdm [] has joined #linode
06:21<Peng_>bits, I guess. But that's still an absurd amount of NTP traffic.
06:21<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Nope. And according to nmap, no ports are even open / none of my services seem to have loaded.
06:22<HoopyCat>I noticed your site ( actively participates in website optimization
06:22<HoopyCat>and decided to contact you in person.
06:22<HoopyCat>... so bare-bones is the new optimized? sweet
06:23<Solver>hahaha :)
06:23<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: I think I have a plan of attack, give me a few minuts
06:23-!-MarkQtty [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:23<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Thanks.
06:23<HoopyCat>Peng_: i've got the htpdate-every-5-seconds guy every once in awhile, via HTTP to it's fascinating.
06:24<HoopyCat>Peng_: the more i thought about that situation, the more baffled and confused i became; i've stopped thinking about it
06:24<Peng_>I've got some guy sending 7 packets to port 500 every 10 minutes. I do have some htpdate users, but they aren't abusive.
06:27<Peng_>Holy crap, it's up to 110 Kbps per second now.
06:27<HoopyCat>Peng_: what's the IP?
06:27<HoopyCat>Peng_: i think you're justified in a KoD
06:28<Peng_> Owned by
06:28<HoopyCat>Peng_: and upon further review, the htpdate-every-5-seconds guy is actually the htpdate-every-1-second guy, and it's not just, it's and if you know which one i'm talking about, check the reverse DNS...
06:28<Peng_>HoopyCat: Hahaha, yes. Because the official KoD justification is only 100 Kbps of traffic, right? :P
06:29<HoopyCat>Peng_: KoD is like pornography... i can't explain when to use it, but i certainly do know when the time is right
06:30<linbot>brown chicken brown cow
06:30<amitz>what's KoD? Kiss of Death?
06:30<Peng_>amitz: Yeah.
06:31*Peng_ doesn't know how to send a KoD packet.
06:31<HoopyCat>amitz: a polite way for an ntp server to tell an ntp client "plz foad"
06:31*Peng_ gets out Google.
06:31<HoopyCat>Peng_: i thought i had one active in my ntp.conf, but i don't
06:31<Peng_>But the only reliable way to make an NTP client FOAD is with guns and/or a DDoS.
06:32<Peng_>KoD is always worth a try, though.
06:32<HoopyCat>Peng_: there's an irony there, of course. a well-behaved NTP client is the only one that'll respond to a KoD automatically, but a well-behaved NTP client probably won't need to be KoD'd.
06:32<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: okay im gonna make this work or Yaakov does not have a huge love for anything
06:33<amitz>oh, interesting.
06:34<Peng_>(Note: I was counting inboud and outbound traffic combined.)
06:35<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Haha, alright :-)
06:35<HoopyCat>Uh, to get back to the, uh, the warning that I've received you may take it with how many however many grains of salt you wish, that the brown library update that is circulating around us is not specifically too good. Uh, it's suggested that you do stay away from that, course it's your own server, so be my guest, but, uh, please be advised that there is a warning on that one ok?
06:37<Peng_>HoopyCat: Whatwhat?
06:37-!-pzn [~pzn@] has joined #linode
06:38-!-pzn [~pzn@] has quit []
06:40<HoopyCat>(my hobby: seeking out sleep-deprived recovery teams for use as vectors to infiltrate corporate memespheres)
06:41<HoopyCat>((i take full credit for causing half of FEMA to realize that "formaldehyde" has the same number of syllables as "mahna mahna"))
06:42<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: try logging in now
06:43<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: that's the same as last time, right?
06:43<rtbarnard>mikegrb: No go still.. Although reinstalling libconsole *did* change the one obvious error message during boot. Previously it was "error while loading shared libraries:" but now it's "Couldnt get a file descriptor referring to the console"
06:43-!-kyhwana [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:43<rtbarnard>mikegrb: So, getting closer, perhaps!
06:44-!-kyhwana [] has joined #linode
06:44<@mikegrb>I have a bat-shit-crazzy trick that I'm saving for last but have some other things to try before that
06:45<rtbarnard>mikegrb: I'm glad you've at least got some ideas :-). Thanks so much for sticking with this and continuing to try and get the problem fixed!
06:45<Yaakov>mikegrb: Yes, put off the illegal stuff till last.
06:45<HoopyCat>anything less than a felony is the best
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06:46<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: Yaakov really wants me to get it working because he doesn't want people to know he doesn't really have a huge love
06:46-!-grawity [] has joined #linode
06:48<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: crap I can't ^x, can you do that for me
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06:53<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: I'm going to try removing the keymap and font scripts from running on startup
06:54<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Alright.
06:54<@mikegrb>they don't make any difference on a linode anyway and who knows maybe there are screwing the pooch
06:54-!-Deckert [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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06:54<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Sounds reasonable enough to me.
06:55-!-chris4 [] has joined #linode
06:57<chris4>So hows every one going after the outage?
06:57-!-Jonno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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06:57<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: so I doubt that's going to make much if any difference but I'm going to try that
06:58<Peng_>Yay, that client has FOADed.
06:58<Peng_>I love you, KoD packets.
06:58<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Once it comes back up, I'll try logging in and let you know whether there's any change.
06:58-!-Jonno [] has joined #linode
06:59<soul9>hay wtf
06:59<soul9>my server rebooted by itself
06:59<soul9>or via linode
06:59<@mikegrb>bah missed the keymap those fd errors are normal though, it iterates through like tty1 -> 9 trying to install the keymap for each
06:59<Peng_>soul9: Yes, it did. /topic.
06:59-!-booba [] has joined #linode
07:00<soul9>i see
07:01-!-chris4 [] has quit [Quit: chris4]
07:01<soul9>i didn't get one e-mail from linode though
07:02<soul9>(i was planning to restart my server this morning after reemerging world, so i'm not really upset ;)
07:03<booba>so my linode is still down :(
07:03<booba>serves me right for remarking a few days agothat it would have an uptime of 1 year soon
07:03-!-davediff [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:04<rtbarnard>mikegrb: As expected, same behavior as before.
07:04<@mikegrb>booba: hang out here and we will get you fixed up
07:04-!-davediff2 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:04<@mikegrb>booba: I'm helping rtbarnard at the moment but will take care of you next if pparadis_ doesn't beat me to it
07:04<Peng_>I think I'm actually KoDing a lot of people now.
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07:12<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: ok lemme find my notes
07:12<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Okay.
07:13-!-tsp is now known as Guest101
07:13-!-tsp-mirc is now known as tsp
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07:20<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: found the notes, have a host that took a dump, will get back to your node in just a moment
07:20<rtbarnard>mikegrb: No problem.
07:22<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: this other way is better than trying to tell aptitude to reinstall everything anyway
07:24-!-dvdm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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07:25<@pparadis_>booba: how can i help you?
07:26-!-steffan [] has joined #linode
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07:28-!-gran_torino is now known as groulder
07:28<groulder>my linode was down for hours
07:28-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:28<groulder>according to the thread on the forums those affected would be notified
07:28<groulder>i haven't received notification
07:28<groulder>so i was wondering if anyone could confirm if freemont54 was rebooted?
07:28-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
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07:30<@mikegrb>groulder: yes, there should be much more information posted soon
07:30<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: so we are now generating correct md5sums from the debs in /var/cache/apt
07:31<groulder>will it be posted to the rss feed?
07:31<@mikegrb>the forum rss feed
07:31<groulder>not the blog one
07:31<@mikegrb>sorry, just realized you may be asking about the blog rss feed
07:31<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Okay. I'm following along so far.
07:31<groulder>didn't realise there was a forum rss fed
07:31<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: then we compare what's on disk to what they should be
07:32-!-swulf-- [] has joined #linode
07:32<@mikegrb>going to step away for a moment but will be right back
07:32<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Makes sense. Are you theorizing that something to do with the update / last night's drama somehow corrupted various package installs?
07:32-!-kyhwana_ [] has joined #linode
07:32<swulf-->easy question: i would like to set up an encrypted fs on a linode (usually you need an unencrypted boot partition) -- can i do this with a linode?
07:34-!-kyhwana [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:35<chesty>i think you could swulf--, but you would probably need your own kernel and inittab. not sure of the exact details
07:35<swulf-->i can do the set up, i just need to know if there are facilities for me to do complete reinstalls on linode
07:36<chesty>initrd i mean
07:36<chesty>check the library, there is an article on custom installs
07:36<swulf-->ah, sweet. thanks
07:37-!-jcn [] has joined #linode
07:37<chesty>i guess (without having read the article) you'd use finnix
07:38-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:38<swulf-->looks neat
07:40-!-Prune [] has joined #linode
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07:46<@mikegrb>rtbarnard: give it a shot?
07:46<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Will do.
07:46<@mikegrb>no joy :/
07:46<rtbarnard>mikegrb: Nope, no joy at all :-(
07:47-!-jonny5 [] has joined #linode
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07:48<jonny5>Hi... I'm pulling my hair out with this, is there a way to show what inodes are open and by what program?
07:49-!-h00s [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:51<swulf-->chesty: what about filesystem types--am I forced into those provided in the linode manager, or can I use a custom fs like StegFS?
07:51<chesty>chose raw in linode manager and it will leave it alone
07:51<booba>pparadis_: my linode wont boot
07:51<booba>since the outage
07:52<booba>it seems booted now
07:52<booba>someone must have fixed it
07:52<swulf-->chesty: raw images cannot be resized later, correct? whereas the ext3, for example, can ?
07:53<jonny5>Thanks chesty, just seeing if CentOS yum has lsof to install. My server is going so slow... the only thing I can think of is too many open inodes from temporary files causing huge iowait
07:53<swulf-->i imagine that the linode manager will just resize the hardware petition, and it's up to the filesystem's support for adjusting its available size ..
07:53-!-booba [] has quit []
07:53<chesty>swulf--: i don't have any first hand experience, but that sounds reasonable
07:54<Clorith>so this is funfunfun
07:54<Clorith>the reason why this .txt file isn't working now ?
07:54<Clorith>because there's an UTF-8 encode char on the first line
07:54<Clorith>which aparently the PDA hates
07:55<Clorith>removing the UTF-8 determination line makes it work...
07:55<Clorith>so here's what I'll do
07:55<Clorith>I'll remove the god damn UTF-8 shit (again) and then I can watch them whine.
07:55<grawity>It's called "UTF-8 Signature".
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07:56<escapade>greetings everyone!
07:56<@pparadis_>i'm working on your ticket right now.
07:56<escapade>good man pparadis!
07:56<@pparadis_>sorry about the delay, these are getting processed in the order i get 'em.
07:56*pparadis_ disappears to work on the host.
07:57<jonny5>Will jonny5 ever get to the bottom of why his server is in iowait :/ The challenge continues
07:58<escapade>pparadis: thanks for your effort. i must say, i started getting very nervous when all my clients started calling me so i began messing around with linde "resizes" and " image backup restores" in an attempt to get everything working again...
07:58<@pparadis_>that is never a good idea when your filesystem is in a questionable state. i'm looking at it now.
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08:00<chesty>you'd think it wouldn't resize if the dirty flag was on
08:02<jonny5> <---- Says my server has a ton of open inodes, but lsof doesn't show nearly that many. Any ideas? It is the only thing I can think of that is causing so much iowait on my server that isn't doing that much
08:02<@pparadis_>escapade: sorry about the delay again, still looking at things.
08:04-!-lesterc [] has quit [Quit: lesterc]
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08:06<@pparadis_>mikegrb: i can't find his images on d151
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08:10<pleia2>morning Yaakov <3
08:10<Yaakov>Hello, pleia2.
08:11<Yaakov>You are also greatly, hugely loved.
08:11<BarkerJr>they were faster answering tickets yesterday *grumbles*
08:11*Yaakov disintegrates BarkerJr.
08:11-!-escapade [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:12<BarkerJr>my new 540 I built yesterday is awesome
08:12-!-Jonno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:12<Yaakov>Do you put on headers and dual carbs?
08:12<BarkerJr>but what I really want is a japanese linode
08:13-!-Jonno [] has joined #linode
08:13<BarkerJr>I was wanting a chinese linode
08:13<BarkerJr>till I read on wikipedia that you need alicense to run a wbsite
08:13<BarkerJr>wtf is up with that?
08:14<Yaakov>The Chinese control the media.
08:14<Yaakov>It is state policy.
08:14<BarkerJr>well, I don't think I could ever get a license to run a tor website
08:14<Yaakov>And, you have to get a learner's permit first, then take a written and practical test. You also have to have insurance.
08:15-!-kyhwana [] has joined #linode
08:15<TLKit>So... I know why service was distrupted yest.
08:15<Yaakov>Today is IPv6 day.
08:15<TLKit>But, I'm thinking how I explain it to the people on my sites.
08:15<Yaakov>Well, among other things.
08:15<TLKit>You know, a short - non-technical way of saying it, any ideas :D?
08:16<BarkerJr>hardware failure
08:16-!-kyhwana_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:16<BarkerJr>the sapien component failed :)
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08:17<quanin>TLKit: we appologise for the inconvenience, however, the chinese ran off with the hard drives. not to worry, however. we're running on 5-year-old backups and all is well.
08:17<Yaakov>TLKit: "Linode, the service provider for our hosting, experienced a widespread outage when a routine software update acted differently in production than in testing. Fortunately, Linode's customer service orientation and technical expertise made it possible to recover from this potential disaster in an impressively short time."
08:17-!-BostonWealth [] has joined #linode
08:17<TLKit>I <3 Linode.
08:18<TLKit>So, anyone in favour of the way vBulletin are doing things these days?
08:18-!-escapade [] has joined #linode
08:18<quanin>i wasn't in favour of the way they did things before. so... no.
08:19<TLKit>Ah, lol... I take it you heard their recent decision?
08:19<quanin>no, but it probably makes about as much sense as microsoft getting into the vps business.
08:19<Yaakov>TLKit: "This unpredictable and unfortunate event has increased our confidence in Linode, LLC as the provider for our hosting services. They have shown they are equal to an event that could have lead to a much more severe disruption."
08:19<J-Node>Hey guys, I'm still down, ping & dns not working, but the console is OK. Have submitted a ticket. Have 3 IP's, all 3 down, but my gateways & linone dns servers are pinging.
08:20<TLKit><3 Yaakov.
08:20<escapade>pparadis_: are you winning with my linode? do you have any questions to ask me?
08:20<chesty>J-Node: centos?
08:20<TLKit>escapade: pparadis will read your mind, no worries!
08:21<escapade>TLKit: i appreciate the humour, but im really stressing on my side to get everythng online again...
08:21<@pparadis_>escapade: working my way through it.
08:22<Yaakov>escapade: pparadis is the kind of person who won't stop until something is done. I am certain he is pounding away at the nightmare which is your 'node with the largest hammer he has.
08:22-!-KHobbits [] has joined #linode
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08:22<Yaakov>Or, "he's working his way through it."
08:22<quanin>nuke it from orbit.
08:22<bithaze>TLKit: I'm actually also on another network with more vBulletin users... yeah, morale hasn't been too great lately
08:22<quanin>it's the only way to be sure.
08:23-!-Nigel_ is now known as G
08:23*jonny5 is close to kicking my linode to pieces
08:23<escapade>Yaakov: my biggest fear is that i maybe messed up my linode even more by trying all types of things like backup restores and linode resizes...
08:23<BostonWealth>Yaakov, Amitz, Quanin and Pparadis hello!
08:23<Yaakov>escapade: It's possible, but if it can be recovered, Phil, et al, will do it.
08:24<Yaakov>Hello, BostonWealth. No, I will not work for you.
08:24<amitz>BostonWealth: howdy!
08:24<quanin>escapade: well, that might cause problems for sure. but... er, what Yaakov said.
08:24<quanin>BostonWealth: hello.
08:25<BostonWealth>Just dropping by to say hi! Don't need anything!
08:25<BostonWealth>Just dropping by to say hi! Don't need anything!
08:25<Yaakov>escapade: It isn't easy waiting but I know that from Phil's point of view he couldn't be any more intent on fixing this if it was his own.
08:25<BostonWealth>Just dropping by to say hi! Don't need anything!
08:25<BostonWealth>Just dropping by to say hi! Don't need anything!
08:25<quanin>escapade: the linode staff are really ninjas in disguise. your linode will be online without anyone here even knowing.
08:25<Yaakov>escapade: And I am serious about that.
08:25<escapade>well, i hope it all works out!
08:25<quanin>BostonWealth: i need something though.
08:26<Yaakov>Well, to the office!
08:26<BostonWealth>Just dropping by to say hi! Don't need anything!
08:26<quanin>BostonWealth: i need you to stop repeating yourself half a dozen times in the channel before i go postal on you. :P
08:26-!-acehost [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:26-!-chemosh [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:26<Internat>bad day eh? oh well
08:26<BostonWealth>Sure! Quanin!
08:26<BostonWealth>Sure! Quanin!
08:26<BostonWealth>Sure! Quanin!
08:26<Internat>do we have an anti troll script anywhere?
08:27<BostonWealth>that is not something I am doing!
08:27<@pparadis_>escapade: your Linode is responding to HTTP requests now.
08:27<@pparadis_>escapade: can you please confirm normal operation?
08:27<TLKit>The reason I <3 Linode so much is the community, there's always people who will know what to do in an event of something going wrong, the Linode staff are actually on IRC... not hidden behind some Live Support chat applet, like most hosting companies, oh... and some humor too!
08:27<BostonWealth>what is ctcp version request?
08:28<J-Node>Question: Node shows to be running, but I see Lassie tried to restart around 18:00 yesterday. Would it hurt to try and restart again? Would hate to interfere with anything else being done.
08:28<quanin>BostonWealth: ninjas are breaking into your computer. run.
08:28<BostonWealth>ha! funny!
08:28-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:28<J-Node>Oh, Lassie failed as the node was already up.
08:28<escapade>pparadis_: everything appears to be back onlione now... ill check everything and let you guys know if i have any further problems!
08:28<@pparadis_>J-Node: if it's running properly there's no reason to reboot it.
08:28<BostonWealth>Got my YSlow score to a B and up to 86! thanks to help from here!
08:28<J-Node>'k, thanx.
08:28<@pparadis_>escapade: please do, and sorry again about the trouble.
08:29<BostonWealth>and I found this!
08:29<BostonWealth>much cheaper then the cat!
08:29<escapade>pparadis_: i completely understand that downtime occurs, but i must sincerely apologise for making changes to my linode - i hope it wasnt too much of a nightmare for you!
08:30<@pparadis_>not too bad, i'm only at 26 hours awake as of now ;)
08:30<TLKit>Coffee much?
08:30<@pparadis_>coffee not enough
08:30-!-jas4711 [] has joined #linode
08:30*pparadis_ goes to get more
08:30<BostonWealth>wow! pparadis I feel your pain.. soon it wont matter any more and you will get a second wind
08:30<J-Node>Oh, sorry, "running properly" is questionable as all my sites are down.
08:31<BostonWealth>did 36 the other day!
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08:31<quanin>pparadis_: you need more hands on deck. i'd apply but my linux foo is limited to breaking things and seeing how long it takes me to fix them.
08:31<TLKit>J-Node: So... what exactly is down?
08:31-!-Pici` [] has joined #linode
08:31<J-Node>All sites. Ping & DNS.
08:31-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
08:32<quanin>which... admittedly... tought me everything i know. which probably still isn't much.
08:32-!-chemosh [] has joined #linode
08:32<array>J-Node: pparadis_ has just run to grab a cup a coffee, he'll be back in a few minutes
08:32<escapade>pparadis_: i do not require my Linode labelled "linode30709" - can I proceed with the removal of this linode? do you need to stop any pending queues on it?
08:33<J-Node>'k. Gonna shell in, since DNS is down have to switch my login script to the IP...
08:33<straterra>linode still sorting things out?
08:33<quanin>escapade: you can transfer it to me, as long as you continue paying for it. can never have too many linodes... especially if you or your host breaks something. :D
08:34<TLKit>straterra: Most things have been sorted out, just a few people which faced problems during it all, are all getting sorted at a time.
08:34<quanin>straterra: that's the impression i got, yeah.
08:34<straterra>tlkit, good deal
08:34<J-Node>Doh! Which of course would not work as I can't ping the IP either.
08:35-!-bogdanbivi [~quassel@] has joined #linode
08:35<quanin>J-Node log into lish if you can and reboot it.
08:35<Internat>god there were some fuckwits on the host reboots thread..
08:35<J-Node>Console works, that's why I just asked if it would hurt to reboot.
08:35<straterra>yes there are
08:35-!-genehack [] has joined #linode
08:35<quanin>in this case, probably not. you're already hurting.
08:35<Internat>just caught up with the thread, but damm.
08:36<straterra>"zomg i want a free month over a few hours of downti8e!'
08:36<J-Node>Console shows running, but Lassie tried to reboot last night but failed as it was already running.
08:36<array>J-Node: can you please give me your username so i can take a quick look at your console?
08:37<quanin>Internat: where you have a status board, you will have fuckwads. it's murphy's law, i swear.
08:37<Internat>it would seem that way
08:37<chesty>another name for fuckwits is linode's paying customers
08:38<straterra>not all
08:38<Internat>because were all linodes paying customers.
08:38<Internat>but not all of us fit into the fuckwit category.
08:38<BostonWealth>quanin.. which would you choose for CDN.. Amazon or Rackspace cloud
08:38<straterra>im not demanding linode employees work for free either
08:39<quanin>BostonWealth: neither. i don't need it.
08:39<chesty>my point is you are calling some of linodes paying customers fuckwits, which linode might not appreciate
08:39<Internat>anywho, i didnt intend to start a flame/troll/fight over it. i just mean some people carry on like their the most important person in the world.
08:39-!-bogdanbiv [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:39<amitz>I'm not? :-)
08:39<BostonWealth>well if you had to that or cloudberry
08:39<straterra>chesty, its true
08:39<quanin>BostonWealth: trust me, i'd make sure i didn't have to.
08:40<amitz>but everywhere I look I only see my friends, my room, and my PC.
08:40<amitz>the worlds must revolve around me.
08:40<Internat>sure. fair call. i wouldnt have those kinda people as customers at the end of the day :)
08:40<BostonWealth>sure! so do you think CDN will not give the incremental benefit to streamline a site
08:41<quanin>BostonWealth: probably no more than replicating your site across multiple linodes. which in effect is what amazon and company are doing anyway, just according to demand.
08:44-!-jstracke [] has joined #linode
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08:44<BostonWealth>ha! Quanin! more business for linode! I love that!
08:44<BostonWealth>I had no idea it would have the same affect!
08:44<BostonWealth>explain please!
08:45-!-kelvinq [] has quit [Quit: kelvinq]
08:45<BostonWealth>pparadis where do I sign up and chime in please!
08:45<BostonWealth>wow! I actually have a linode question
08:45-!-jstracke [] has left #linode []
08:45<BostonWealth>how do i replicate my site across mulitple linodes
08:46<quanin>well, if you read the details on what cloud computing's supposed to do, it's just designed to serve your site from multiple servers in multiple datacenters according to where a person's viewing it from. you're connecting from asia, amazon has a datacenter in asia your request is directed to.
08:46<BostonWealth>yes that I know
08:46<quanin>same site, different location.
08:46<BostonWealth>ah so like dallas and sacremento
08:46<quanin>you can pretty much do the same thing, without the global specificity of amazon, on linode (i've heard of it done, not done it myself).
08:46<BostonWealth>so who can help me set it up!
08:47-!-hammockhero [] has left #linode []
08:47<BostonWealth>ha! but this is linode and I am asking a linode question
08:47<BostonWealth>amitz where are you my friend!
08:48<quanin>yes, but thers'a more than one way to do it. and you kind of have ti figure out what's going to work for you.
08:48<BostonWealth>so where to start
08:48-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:48<quanin>we can't really help you with the guess work.
08:48<BostonWealth>k I will call pparadis later today! I am sure he can help!
08:49<amitz>I'm here but I rely on google too so.. :-)
08:49-!-escapade [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.6 (2005/02/09)]
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08:49<BostonWealth>well if it isn't the most helpful guy around here! amitz man!
08:49<fapestniegd>BostonWealth: what you're asking is like "how do I drive to Texas from here?" There are so many variables as to the specifics of your site, that any advice you'll get without an full-blown business-consultation would be meaningless.
08:49-!-david_ [~quassel@] has quit []
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08:49<quanin>BostonWealth: later to day, pparadis_ will most likely be hiding in his bedroom with a pillow over his head to avoid hearing the phone.
08:50<BostonWealth>thanks fapestneigd
08:50<BostonWealth>so what parameters in general should I indentify!
08:50<quanin>you'd do it too after 26 hours fixing a minor collapse of a large part of your business network.
08:51<jforman>BostonWealth: what he's saying is, hire someone. #linode is not the place for this
08:51<quanin>exactly. if you don't know enough to research it on your own, fork over the $.
08:51<BostonWealth>well it was your suggestion!
08:52<Trystan>his suggestion was google
08:52<Trystan>aka, research it
08:52<jforman>BostonWealth: i can suggest quanin go jump off a bridge, but it's his responsiblity to do the research about whether it will result in his death or not.
08:52-!-TofuMatt [~TofuMatt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:52<BostonWealth>no he suggested linode
08:52-!-A-KO^ [] has joined #linode
08:52<BostonWealth>anyway I see I am not going to get anywhere here!
08:52<quanin>i said there'd be not a hell of a lot of difference.
08:52<Trystan>BostonWealth: it wasnt saying pay google for it, it was suggesting googling for it
08:52<amitz>.... \o/
08:53<BostonWealth>yes I know, but google what
08:53<BostonWealth>linode cdn
08:53<spkitty>oh god
08:53<BostonWealth>hey how is that ignore function again?
08:53<Trystan>redundant hosting, redundant systems
08:53<BostonWealth>spkitty must not have any work!
08:53<BostonWealth>he is always here!
08:53<Trystan>so am I
08:53<spkitty>so are you
08:53<quanin>BostonWealth: we're all always here.
08:53<amitz>so are we :-)
08:54<BostonWealth>well subsriber base is growing very fast!
08:54<BostonWealth>really thanks in most to amitz and his help here!
08:54<BostonWealth>followed by quanin
08:54<spkitty>how's that 7 million dollar customer going along
08:54<BostonWealth>where is that ignore again?
08:54-!-TofuMatt [~TofuMatt@] has joined #linode
08:55<Trystan>type ignore name
08:55<amitz>BostonWealth: I must say that I was in the right mood with you asking the right question with me having just the right knowledge :-)
08:55<BostonWealth>ignore spkitty
08:55<spkitty> /ignore you idiot
08:55<chesty>/quit spkitty
08:55<chesty>will make him quit
08:55-!-jonny5 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:56<BostonWealth>wow friendly bunch today!
08:56<BostonWealth>can't even get help on an ignore command!
08:56<spkitty>i just told you you idiot
08:56<BostonWealth>wow such language
08:56<Trystan>he.. actually told you how to ignore him himself.
08:56<Trystan>and i told you how
08:56<grawity>You know, /ignore isn't that hard to use.
08:56<chesty>and you were told yesterday
08:56<quanin>BostonWealth: here. since you won't do the poking around so we have something specific to help you with...
08:56<BostonWealth>well I forgot
08:56<quanin>... i've done some of it for you. thank me later.
08:57<quanin>you get to research from there.
08:57<quanin>have fun.
08:57<BostonWealth>well thanks quanin.. much appreaiated
08:57<BostonWealth>that is all I was looking for!
08:57<BostonWealth>really thanks
08:57-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
08:57<quanin>if you can't find anything semi-useful from there, your next stop is google.
08:58-!-A-KO [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:58<BostonWealth>well now I know the subject line to google.. was not aware it was synching and web servers
08:58<BostonWealth>much different than the word cdn; at least to a newbie!
08:58<BostonWealth>so thanks again!
08:58-!-A-KO^ is now known as A-KO
08:58<spkitty>you're welcome!
08:59<quanin>if you'd done the research on cloud computing you'd know all it is, really, is that on a much larger scale than you probably need.
08:59<spkitty>quanin: we told him all this a few days back, he never listens
09:00<BostonWealth>so thanks to quanin, linode probably will get my business over amazon, or cloudbery or rackspace cloud
09:00<amitz>BostonWealth: I do suggest you hire someone because this is not really your domain so it's a bit difficult to read/google about this stuff to even find out some basic information.
09:00-!-cg2112 [] has joined #linode
09:00<BostonWealth>amitz will do and report back here in a few weeks
09:01<spkitty>please you don't have to report back we'll be fine
09:02<bryen>we expect that report in triplicate, leather-bound, gold-embossed, double-spaced except on every third and seventh page which should be quad-spaced.
09:02-!-dvdm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:02<quanin>and it'd better come with a 6-figure check, payable to me.
09:03<spkitty>quanin: i'm sure your check will come through right when his 7 million dollar customer doe
09:04<quanin>spkitty: which should be any time tomorrow, don't ya know.
09:04<BostonWealth>bryen would you like that on legal paper as well!
09:04<spkitty>haha, of course
09:04-!-swulf-- [] has quit [Quit: [BX] If idiots could fly, IRC would be an airport]
09:04<Trystan>BostonWealth: that would be handy
09:04-!-Deckert [] has joined #linode
09:05<quanin>BostonWealth: and if it doesn't have a corporate letterhead, it won't be accepted as valid.
09:05<BostonWealth>He everyone really thanks!
09:05<bryen>BostonWealth: Not sure if what you will report on is legal
09:05<BostonWealth>wow do you also want a medallion gurantee.. quick google it.. ha!
09:05-!-dvdm [] has joined #linode
09:05<quanin>yes, actually, since you asked.
09:05<spkitty>you'd have to spell guarantee correctly first though
09:06<chesty>no you wouldn't, google would suggest it for you
09:06<spkitty>ha, good point
09:06<quanin>spkitty: he's got a poin.
09:07<Trystan>it probably got bored
09:07<quanin>aquillar: it's a government conspiracy.
09:07<aquillar>got sick of sitting there
09:07<BostonWealth>what does this mean? requested CTCP VERSION from BostonWealth
09:07<aquillar>"screw this, I'm rebooting"
09:07-!-stan_theman [] has joined #linode
09:07<quanin>BostonWealth: i told you. ninjas are breaking into your computer.
09:07<Trystan>nothing important/malicious
09:07<BostonWealth>oh sorry let me guess.. google it!
09:07-!-acowan [~acowan@] has left #linode []
09:07<aquillar>government conspiracy
09:08<Trystan>no.. actually i meant dont worry about it
09:08<BostonWealth>just curious
09:08-!-jamie_alm [] has joined #linode
09:09<Trystan>just someone getting information
09:09-!-iicsa [] has joined #linode
09:10-!-Bass10 [] has joined #linode
09:10-!-Duffy [~Duffy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:10<quanin>Trystan: hey, let the man google it if he decides he wants to. gotta learn this crap eventually.
09:10<Trystan>good work :)
09:10<quanin>Trystan: see?
09:10<quanin>now he's a step closer to firing his web admin. :P
09:11-!-aarhus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:11<Trystan>i dont like to put a guy outa work though!
09:11-!-Dianoga_ is now known as Dianoga
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09:12<quanin>it's not like he can really do the job.
09:12<BostonWealth>so what is the command to request CTCP Version of someone
09:12-!-aarhus [~aarhus@] has joined #linode
09:12<BostonWealth>and no I wont fall for a trick now!
09:12<BostonWealth>will try it late at night!
09:12<jforman>BostonWealth: you realize late at night is someone else's morning or midday?
09:12<Trystan>that will vary depending on the client
09:13<quanin>BostonWealth: it should be in that article. if not, then it's in your client's documentation.
09:13<Trystan>late at night is my midday :D
09:13<BostonWealth>though sunday night worldwide it is quite here
09:13<Trystan>sunday night is.. monday for me
09:13-!-iicsa [] has quit []
09:13<chesty>BostonWealth: /part CTCP VERSION <nick>
09:13<BostonWealth>thanks chesty
09:14<quanin>checkers: +1
09:14<quanin>chesty, even
09:14<Trystan>thought you needed to specify the channel as well
09:14<quanin>nick completion on 3 letters. not cool.
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09:15<spkitty>on one channel i +o with over 100 people if i can't nick complete somebody in 2 letters or less they get banned :v
09:15<quanin>Trystan: nah. but some clients will asign it to the alt+f4 shortcut.
09:15<jonny5>Is this channel logged? Someone said something yesterday I'd like to read again
09:16<spkitty>it is jonny5
09:16<spkitty>oh wai
09:16<spkitty>that's not the right link
09:17<quanin>probably also replicated at like 50 million other locations. but that's the official one.
09:17<spkitty> this was the link i was looking for
09:18-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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09:20<jonny5>Better not say anything foul then :)
09:20-!-midasza [~midasza@] has quit []
09:21<spkitty>that was terrible Trystan, terrible
09:21<Trystan>lol :)
09:21*quanin drop kicks Trystan in front of google and everyone. yeah, i said it.
09:22<jonny5>I think I have the strangest, most annoying problem with my Linode. Ever since upgrading to a bigger one, it has so much iowait. The contents or traffic haven't changed significantly... even on bootup it goes a lot slower when looking at the lish console. I can't figure it out. :(
09:22-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
09:22<Trystan>why you have to go and diss me in front of google
09:22<Trystan>now everyones gonna know..
09:22<Trystan>google cant keep anything to itself!
09:22<quanin>personal problem. :P
09:22-!-WNz [] has joined #linode
09:22<chesty>jonny5: pastebin vmstat 1 10
09:23<WNz>Are there still issues?
09:23<quanin>WNz: last i heard there were still some minor ones. the sysadmin looking into it is on a coffee break.
09:23-!-Duffy [~Duffy@] has joined #linode
09:24<jonny5>I had a random thought that I had upgraded my CentOS with Yum to 5.4(?) but it had never been rebooted before upgrading to a bigger linode, and maybe the Kernels are unmatched?
09:25<quanin>does lish run slow even when not attached to your linode?
09:25<jonny5>I'll give that a go now quanin
09:26-!-linville [] has joined #linode
09:26<amitz>quanin: how slow are you talking about?1-2 seconds?
09:26-!-lakin_ [] has joined #linode
09:26<quanin>amitz: it's not me with the slowness issue.
09:27<amitz>oh, .
09:27<straterra>jonny5: the kernels arent ever going to match
09:27<jonny5>quanin: I logged into lish, detatched, then typed 'jobs' and it took a good few seconds to start outputting the list
09:27<straterra>Linode kernels are ubuntu kernels..
09:27<quanin>jonny5: the slowness may be host-side then.
09:28<jonny5>quanin: Meh, they already migrated me to a host that didn't have problems. Hope not! These 1 1/2 hour downtimes during migration are pain :)
09:28<jonny5>I have a ticket open so hopefully that's the first thing they will look at
09:28<quanin>straterra: you're still running gentoo right?
09:29<straterra>On one of my Linodes, yes
09:29<jonny5>How random, there's a job for 'lassie initiated boot' about 10 minutes ago. Hmm
09:29<jonny5>Yet my linode has been up for 1 hour
09:29<quanin>jonny5: well, it's the most likely issue at this point considering you're noticing problems outside your linode.
09:30<jonny5>quanin: good point
09:30-!-Twayne [] has joined #linode
09:30<chesty>jonny5: you upgraded, it was slow, then you were moved to a different host the same plan size?
09:31<quanin>straterra: you know of an easy way to work around the inability to find the module deps file, or... pretty much any kernel file, asociated with your current linode kernel version?
09:31<jonny5>chesty: yes
09:31<straterra>quanin: I havent even bothered with it..
09:31<jonny5>And the only thing I can think of was the CentOS had been upgraded to 5.4 from 5.3 but not rebooted.
09:31<quanin>i get fatal "couldn't find blah" errors, but then it boots anyway so i'm not all that concerned. it's just... annoying.
09:31<straterra>all i ever see are warnings, not really errors
09:32-!-Duffy [~Duffy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:32-!-iicsa [] has joined #linode
09:32<quanin>jonny5: that *shouldn't* be causing your issue.
09:33-!-pi_ [] has joined #linode
09:33<chesty>jonny5: what's running when you run top?
09:33<jonny5>oops I'll pastebin it
09:34<jonny5>I've tried turning off mysql and httpd (the only things I'm really using) and I still get loads of iowait. Also when watching bootup, it is going so slow.
09:34<chesty>and also watch it for a little while, see if there are any processes that fight for top position
09:35-!-sblaydes [] has joined #linode
09:35<jonny5> I didn't make any changes to my site, and there haven't been many unusual changes in traffic. After the downtime which was the migration, iowait goes nasty :/
09:35<chesty>pastebin your httpd config
09:36<quanin>it's been answered before, but i'm asking anyway. what's the difference between the latest stable and the latest paravirt kernels? beyond the fact latest stable is 2.6.18?
09:36<jonny5>Even if I stop httpd and mysql, it is very sluggish listing directories etc.
09:36<jonny5>I'll pastebin it, but it hasn't changed from when it was running well
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09:37<sblaydes_>Anyone here who handles abuse for linode?
09:37<J-Node>We all abuse linode. ;)
09:38<quanin>jonny5: to rule it out, maybe temporarily stop munin?
09:38<jonny5>Linode is abusing me today
09:38<jonny5>quanin: Did that, for 10 minutes, no difference, but will do it now.
09:38<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community.
09:39<sblaydes_>Just wondering what they needed log wise for a complaint
09:39<sblaydes_>I am a linode customer myself...but this is for attacks on a server at work
09:40<quanin>if it's a justifiable complaint, they probably wouldn't say no to whatever you can provide.
09:40-!-sblaydes [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:40-!-WNz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:40<jonny5>quanin: munin-node is off, still getting unusual iowait :/ Will give it a bit longer
09:40<cg2112>Anyone know if these atlanta issues should be giving me a problem with init?
09:41<cg2112>Or messing with inittab somehow?
09:41<quanin>cg2112: a couple people last night said their inittab was missing.
09:41<chesty>cg2112: a few people had corrupted inittabs
09:41<sblaydes_>I lucked out and only had about 1.5 hours of downtime and seemed to reboot okay
09:41<cg2112>Yeah, that's what I have going on right now.
09:42<cg2112>root@hvc0:/1/etc# ls -l |grep ?
09:42<cg2112>?--------- ? ? ? ? ? inittab
09:42<cg2112>root@hvc0:/1/etc# cat inittab
09:42<cg2112>HoopyCat: inittab: No such file or directory
09:42<chesty>if you can't fix it yourself, put in a ticket and linode will fix it up for you
09:42-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
09:42<jonny5>quanin: I think its safe to say munin-node isn't causing it
09:43<quanin>jonny5: then i'd wait for a sysadmin to get to your ticket.
09:43<quanin>sounds like it's an issue beyond your node.
09:43<cg2112>I did, just wondering if anyone else saw it.
09:43<jonny5>quanin: will do, it has been going on 2 days now, losing monies :(
09:43<cg2112>I can't overwrite it, which was my worry.
09:43<chesty>cg2112: you'd probably have to boot finnix and run fsck
09:43<quanin>well, the only other alternative is to power off the node, which i'm not about to ask you to do, and see if that helps lish performance.
09:44<J-Node>Nothing like downtime to reinforce one's ignorance. Really must bone up on recovery procedures.
09:44<cg2112>I'm doing all this in finnix now. fsck comes up clean everytime.
09:44<quanin>heh. fortunately i'm not running anything hyper critical on my linodes... mostly they're just for learning purposes, with a couple IRCD's for kicks. so if they go splork i'm not out $billions.
09:44<jonny5>quanin: I might try that if it goes on another day :)
09:44-!-tiny [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:45<cg2112>If they can fix it though, that's fine. It's just a weird one.
09:45<jonny5>I wish I'd never upgraded... it was working better before
09:46<quanin>jonny5: well, on the very unlikely chance that it was caused by an OS upgrade and not your linode plan upgrade, you might have seen this problem anyway.
09:46-!-rtbarnard [] has left #linode []
09:46<quanin>but, since it's not exactly a very likely cause, i wouldn't worry too much about that.
09:47<jonny5>quanin: true, one day I'll look back to this day as a distant memory while I'm dancing in the sun
09:47<quanin>okay, but if you make it rain i'll slap you.
09:47<straterra>quanin: if anyone would be out billions..they shouldnt have just one server
09:48<quanin>well, for the record, i've got two. but i agree.
09:48<quanin>of course, i'm not one for throwing up a website and watching the dollars roll in. mostly because i wouldn't know the first thing about doing it.
09:49<quanin>any website i do end up putting up is probably going to be an excuse for me to get used to apache. wonder if that'd count towards making me bilingual...
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09:50<jonny5>I can't figure out how to make mine work over redundant servers. And chances are I'll break both anyway
09:50<quanin>heh. let's fix your one server first, then you can research multiples, jonny5.
09:50<sblaydes_>quanin: i can show you want to do with the dollars that roll in
09:51<quanin>sblaydes_: oh, i have no problem finding things to do with them. i just wouldn't know the first thing about making them start rolling in.
09:51<randallman>Sup sup
09:52-!-kyhwana [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:52<sblaydes_>quanin: okay, I just want to help out where i can |-)
09:52<jonny5>Anyone here find it hard to do any development work when their server has issues? Like can't concentrate
09:52<quanin>sblaydes_: of course, it might help if i was interested in learning. most of my linux usage right now is just playing.
09:52-!-jcn [] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?]
09:52<quanin>spent the first 2 months or so with linode installing an OS, playing with it, upgrading it, breaking it, wiping it and installing another.
09:53-!-iicsa [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
09:54<jonny5>Ah I'm searching twitter for CentOS 5.4 update... noticed at least one person complaining their server is grinding afterward.
09:55<jonny5>I really should not have done that upgrade
09:55<chesty>jonny5: buy another linode for a few days and install 5.3
09:56<jonny5>chesty: I was considering that, but the disk goes so slow that I think it will take too long to move it
09:56<jonny5>Is it possible to downgradE?
09:57-!-mawolf [~mw@] has joined #linode
09:57<jonny5>Le 'meh'
09:58<randallman>hell no :)
09:58<randallman>break the mirror :)
09:58-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:58<chesty>how much data do you have? you on'y have to move the website and database
09:58<randallman>rpm/yum do NOT downgrade well :)
09:59<jonny5>chesty: Around 30GB
10:00<J-Node>Linode is the best. Even when they break stuff, they know how to fix it.
10:01<jonny5>I love my Dreamhost server... currently in 3GB of swap
10:01-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
10:02<quanin>i've noticed a lot of linode's customers are also dreamhost customers. a couple even sit in both channels.
10:02<quanin>kinda like me.
10:02<adj>jonny5: 5.4 has been a good update for me
10:02<bithaze>I've been a DreamHost customer for a few years but I've been curious about Linode for a few months and just signed up yesterday
10:02<jonny5>adj: Jealous :)
10:02-!-kelvinq [] has joined #linode
10:02<adj>jonny5: whaat issues are you having?
10:03<jonny5>adj: Tons of iowait on my linode after an upgrade from 720 to 1080, even when no services are running. Bootup seems slow too. I have even been migrated away from a host that had slow disk issues
10:04<adj>hrm. i have not upgraded my linode yet. but my vmware guests are fine, as are my physical machines
10:04<jonny5>I am considering getting a second linode and transferring. Massive pain :(
10:04<adj>what is the tick timer divier set to?
10:05<jonny5>I don't know what that is, could you explain?
10:06<adj>look at /boot/grub/menu.lst, i would expect (although i'm not a xen guy) that they drop the tick timer from 1000Hz to 100Hz to allow the guest to play nicer on the host
10:06-!-steffan [] has left #linode []
10:07<adj>it probably shows the clocksource stuff too
10:07<jonny5>It doesn't look like I have a directory there. Probably best not to touch it if it was fine before
10:07-!-OsAC [] has joined #linode
10:08<OsAC>hi my server rebooted Oct 28 06:33:32 space syslogd 1.5.0#2ubuntu6: restart.
10:08<OsAC>for no apparent reason
10:08<jforman>OsAC: /topic
10:09<OsAC>ok, that sound good
10:09<OsAC>got woried about beeing hacked
10:13-!-litwol|mac [] has joined #linode
10:13<jonny5>Hate hack
10:13<grawity>Hate when people call that 'hack'
10:15-!-Oli`` [~oli@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:15*jonny5 shoots self in head over iowait
10:15<Desph>whuts iowait
10:16<Desph>damnit, my uptime is gonee! i had 24 days. now i got 13 hours
10:16-!-lakin_ [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
10:16<Desph>but on the plus side its using 13mb less ram than before
10:16<jonny5>Desph: iowait is when a process is waiting for disk access. Since upgrade, my server has a ton and it makes it sluggish and lame :(
10:16<Desph>jonny5: I've never heard of it :P
10:17<chesty>jonny5: what kernel are you running?
10:17<Desph>chesty: What ez command can I use to see my kernel version
10:17<chesty>uname -a
10:18-!-Vineet [~vineetsha@] has joined #linode
10:18<adj>jonny5: install hwtop and figure out whats causing it
10:18<jonny5>chesy: according to linode panel, latest 2.6 stable (
10:18<Vineet>can anybody guide me to a LAMP performance tuning tutorial for ubuntu
10:18<adj>does your fs have noatime set?
10:19<adj>err. htop, not hwtop
10:19<Desph>Vineet, did you install the LAMP packages as an all in one?
10:19<jonny5>adj: its just it was working fine before and no setup has changed, and it does it even when booting up with no services
10:19<Vineet>@Desph I installed them separately
10:19<spkitty>Vineet: there's some apache tuning for you
10:19<chesty>jonny5: it might be worth trying a later kernel
10:19-!-geoffeg [] has joined #linode
10:19<Desph>spkitty: Its funny, but I actually use the slicehost docs too sometimes
10:19<adj>jonny5: you have a whole new kernel...
10:20<spkitty>they're much better than the linode library
10:20<spkitty>currently anyway
10:20<adj>jonny5: and you upgraded. everything *has* changed
10:20-!-PAtrik [] has joined #linode
10:20<spkitty>my favourite part of the linode library is how the ruby on rails tutorial doesn't actually install rails at all
10:20<Desph>Vineet: In my opinion, until apache or sql is being a hog, its probably fine to leave it as is
10:20<Desph>spkitty: I've never had to use those, so I wouldn't know :P
10:21<spkitty>i thought i would give it a look to see if i missed anything :v
10:21-!-ph^ [~ph^] has joined #linode
10:21<jonny5>I'll be away for a moment while I kick something in.
10:22<Desph>spkitty: Any articles you could link me to reguarding more in depth mysql and apache tuning?
10:22<spkitty>google has plenty i hear :p
10:22<Vineet>thanks spkitty
10:23<spkitty>i can't really remember the ones that i used sorry
10:23<Desph>spkitty: I bet it does
10:23<spkitty>but i did find them through google
10:23-!-OsAC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:24<Vineet>@spkitty I find many of them online, but none of them is as descriptive
10:24<adj>the problem with 'tuning' guides is they assume everyone has the same demands. you may want to just read about how mysql/apache work, run some objective tests, then adjust the settings to fit your scenario
10:24-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:24<spkitty>yeah you have to use your brain with them
10:24<spkitty>it all depends on what linode you have
10:24<randallman>opinions are like assholes :)
10:24<Desph>adj: What would you recommend for tests?
10:24-!-jkwood [~jk@] has joined #linode
10:25<adj>ab is good. webinject can be more thorough. gnuplot helps visualize the affect your settings changes have
10:25<jkwood>You'd think I would have learned to set up my network automagically on reboot by now.
10:25<Desph>jkwood: What do you have to do special?
10:25<Desph>adj: Hm, I'll take a look
10:25<jonny5>Does this sound like a good plan... set my DNS TTL to 5 minutes, so in a couple of days when switching servers I can change pretty quickly?
10:26<adj>jonny5: if you can set it lower, set it lower
10:26<adj>but that is a good idea
10:26<jkwood>Just set it up in the rc scripts.
10:26<jonny5>adj: That's as low as I can get on Linode DNS
10:26<Vineet>@Desph @ Spkitty My current usage averaged 16%. is that allright ? I am pretty new to this
10:26<spkitty>what usage?
10:26<Desph>Well, 16% of what usage, yeah
10:27<Vineet>Cpu uSAGE
10:27-!-jcn [] has joined #linode
10:27<Desph>Isn't the cpu the shared cpu?
10:27<Desph>Which means the usage varies based on other people on the box?
10:28<Desph>Vineet: Could you screenshot an htop window or something?
10:28<adj>its a virtual cpu. you will not see the usage of other guest OSes
10:28<Desph>adj: Oh, thanks for the info
10:28<Desph>adj: I didn't know how xen worked
10:28-!-jkwood [~jk@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:29<spkitty>16% does sound that bad out of 400% total
10:29<Desph>spkitty: Yeah but what is he running? My CPU load hasn't touched 8%
10:30-!-getsmart [] has joined #linode
10:30<spkitty>all depends of course
10:31<Desph>Yeah, so if I could see an htop window it'd help to see whats running and holding it high
10:32-!-timg [] has joined #linode
10:32<adj>jonny5: if you have a relatively new kernel (centos 5.4 *may* work, i'll have to check) then process accounting should be turned on an you can poll per-pid i/o stats using iotop
10:33-!-jamie_alm [] has left #linode [Leaving...]
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10:33-!-bryanl [] has quit []
10:34<Desph>yuck. centos
10:34<timg>Desph, I hear windows is coming down in price :p
10:34<randallman>I dig RHEL5.3
10:34<Desph>timg: Don't get me started
10:35<Desph>randallman: I'm more of a Debian type of guy
10:35<MJCS>all quiet on the western front?
10:36<timg>has anyone had luck fixing their systems yet?
10:36<Desph>timg: My system haz been fine. Just that damn reboot that took away my 24 days uptime
10:37<Desph>Maybe I'm just lucky
10:37<adj> 10:37:11 up 797 days, 14:16, 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.02, 0.00
10:37<timg>my other system has been up for quite a while... sadly this reboot blew up my linode
10:37<adj>;) that box really needs a reboot
10:37<Desph>adj: Is that a linode?
10:37<adj>Desph: heh. no =)
10:37<timg> 07:37:36 up 329 days, 14:11, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
10:37<Desph>adj: Wheres that box?
10:38<adj>my datacenter
10:38<Desph>checkout my laptop: 10:38 up 1 day, 15:31, 3 users, load averages: 0.53 0.33 0.32
10:38-!-Vineet [~vineetsha@] has left #linode []
10:38<Desph>its sad when my laptop has better uptime than my linode
10:39<Desph>This is my macmini (lil home server): 10:38 up 32 days, 20:13, 2 users, load averages: 0.00 0.01 0.00
10:39-!-Guspaz|m [] has joined #linode
10:40<@pparadis_>Desph: i'd note that there's a lot of customers who had over 200 days of uptime prior to this outage.
10:41-!-tim [] has joined #linode
10:41<Desph>pparadis_: Damn, that sucks. I'd be pretty mad if that was me
10:42<adj>uptime isn't really a big thing though =)
10:42-!-alester [] has left #linode []
10:42<Desph>Oh I know, but besides bragging about it I just hate when things happen to my server thats been running fine for X amount of days
10:42<@pparadis_>Desph: my point is that issues like this are extremely rare with us.
10:42-!-jkwood [] has joined #linode
10:42<tim>hey chaps, are the upgrade issues still ongoing?
10:42<Desph>pparadis_: Oh I bet, I've heard great things
10:43<@pparadis_>hi tim, it's spot cleanup mostly now.
10:43<amitz>if I disappear then I I mess up my unstable and stable mixing. Blame bitlbee!
10:43<tim>my linode in the newark DC isn't responding to ssh or http, and seems to be ignoring requests to shutdown / reboot
10:43<tim>may well be my problem
10:43-!-danp_ is now known as danp
10:43<tim>but i can't get in to find out :-)
10:43<Desph>pparadis_: I wouldn't be here if I thought this happen frequent
10:43-!-jkwood [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:43<@pparadis_>tim: i hate to ask, but do you have an open ticket?
10:43<Desph>tim, try lish?
10:43<@pparadis_>Desph: i know :). it's all good.
10:44<tim>hmm, I'm afraid not - thought i'd pop on here and check if it was an easy fix or some ongoing problem first
10:44<Desph>pparadis_: Which datacenters are having the most problems still
10:44<@pparadis_>tim: what distro?
10:44<tim>will have a crack with lish then open a ticket if not
10:44<Desph><3 debian
10:44<@pparadis_>i do too :)
10:45<Desph>pparadis_: Reguarding my last question..
10:45<@pparadis_>please feel free to throw the details out here, perhaps it is something easily solved. if not, please do open a ticket.
10:45-!-amitz [~amitz@] has quit [Quit: hoping for the best]
10:45<tim>ok, thanks chaps
10:45<@pparadis_>Desph: it's not segmented by datacenter.
10:46<Peng_>So were Linodes rebooted cleanly or did they have the (virtual) power pulled?
10:46<Desph>pparadis_: I'm looking at the cpu chat on my linode via the panel, Whats the graph mean by "400m "?
10:46<Desph>chart* not chat
10:47<Desph>Peng_: According to my linode panel it says the "host initiated restart", then "Lassie initiated boot" (and it was already running because the host did a reboot, not shutdown)
10:48<Peng_>Desph: Same here.
10:48<Desph>Peng_: Which host are you on?
10:48<Peng_>Desph: dallas153
10:48<Desph>Peng_: dallas157 here
10:49<Peng_>Desph: Ah, well, 153 is cooler! :P
10:49<jonny5>Ooo friend just got made redundant, that must suck
10:49<Desph>Pssh 157 is newer
10:49<Peng_>Desph: 153 is more mature!
10:49<Desph>Peng_: 157 is teh 1337
10:49<grawity>And the e-penis comparison continues.
10:50*Desph lols
10:51-!-amitz [~amitz@] has joined #linode
10:51<jess^>put away the rulers boys
10:51<Peng_>Desph: Which plan are you on?
10:51<Desph>Peng_: 540
10:51-!-jdb [] has joined #linode
10:51<quanin>what's the difference between latest stable and latest paravirt kernels? other than the fact latest stable is still sitting at 2.6.18?
10:51-!-grawity [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:51<Peng_>Desph: Ah. I'm on a 360, so we couldn't be on the same hosts anyway.
10:51<jdb>have there been any issues with linode as of about 10 hours ago?
10:51<jess^>quanin: afaik it's just there to make you ask questions
10:51<jdb>my linode lost its network
10:51<jess^>jdb: there were issues yesterday.
10:51<Peng_>jdb: /topic
10:52<Desph>Peng_: Hehe, so mines bigger.
10:52<jdb>im still not able to get it back online
10:52<Guspaz|m>The paravirt kernel has pvops. IIRC, better support for virtualization at the expense of an accurate clock.
10:52<Desph>jdb: lish ftw?
10:52<Peng_>jdb: ticket
10:52<Guspaz|m>Not that the clock becomes inaccurate, so much as it's no longer tied to the host clock, so you need to run ntp yourself.
10:52<quanin>well, i do that anyway so eh.
10:52<Guspaz|m>But it's easily resolved by just installing ntp, which is as complicated as "aptitude install ntp".
10:53<Peng_>Something which you can do on 2.6.18 if you want to, by tweaking a sysctl.
10:53<Guspaz|m>Also, 2.6.18 is three years old, so...
10:53<adj>-bash: aptitude: command not found
10:53<Desph>Guspaz|m: I've had no problems with 2.6.18
10:53<Guspaz|m>Desph: Old kernel is old.
10:53-!-jhenry [] has joined #linode
10:53<Desph>Guspaz|m: Either way, its stable
10:53<Guspaz|m>At least it gets backported security patches.
10:53<Peng_>pv_ops is cooler, but only stopped sucking recently. That, plus the clock issue, is why 2.6.18 is still the default.
10:54<Peng_>Linode has had problems with 2.6.18, having to backport hardware support.
10:54-!-tim [] has quit [Quit: tim]
10:54<Desph>Peng_: What kernel you on?
10:54<Guspaz|m>The clock issue will never go away, though, so is unlikely to prevent deployment in the future. Likely Linode will simply add ntp to the default images for various distros.
10:54<Peng_>Desph: The latest pv_ops, currently
10:54<Peng_>Guspaz|m: They're never going to fix it?
10:54<Desph>Hmm I'm not sure if I should update mine
10:55<Guspaz|m>peng_: It's unfixable.
10:55<Peng_>Guspaz|m: Why?
10:55<jess^>Peng_: because of virtualization and the way linux does clocks
10:55-!-quickleft [] has joined #linode
10:55<Peng_>jess^: Well, that can theoretically be changed, no?
10:55<adj>Guspaz|m:maybe you know this... does linode drop the tick timer to 100Hz automatically for guests?
10:55<jess^>Peng_: the way linux handles clocks? sure, go rewrite the kernel.
10:56<Guspaz|m>peng_: The accuracy is caused by the fact that the guest clock is no longer tied to the host clock, so there's just no connection there anymore.
10:56<Guspaz|m>adj: Not sure, isn't 100Hz the default anyhow? I don't have SSH access from here, so I can't easily check.
10:56<Peng_>Desph: You don't _need_ to. If you don't need anything from the newer kernels, risking a kernel upgrade is up to you.
10:56<quanin>i do. let me check.
10:56<adj>1000Hz is default in 2.6, 100Hz was 2.4
10:56<Desph>How can I remove the private IP from my linode
10:56<jess^>nobody wants to fix it because it would take too much effort when you can just install ntpd
10:56<Peng_>Desph: I did need/want stuff from newer kernels.
10:56<jess^>Desph: ticket, afaik
10:57<Peng_>jess^: Heheh, okay.
10:57<adj>i don't have the kernel config specs for the kernel on my linode for some reason
10:57-!-jkwood [] has joined #linode
10:57<Peng_>for me
10:57<jess^>pparadis_: good morning, sweetie
10:57<adj>that may not be a big deal on xen. i've seen considerable improvement on my vmware platforms dropping linux guests to 100Hz
10:58<@pparadis_>jess^: hiya \o :)
10:58<jkwood>There we go.
10:58-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:58<amitz>oh, the frequency.. heh. Makes winxp consume too much power.
10:59*Peng_ wants 666 Hz.
10:59*straterra wants urmom hurtz
10:59<linbot>New news from forums: /var/run mount in General Discussion <>
10:59-!-spkitty [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:59*pparadis_ hands Peng_ a P3 that had 667.6 MHz
11:00-!-spkitty [] has joined #linode
11:00<Guspaz|m>pparadis_: Did you get any sleep last night?
11:00<Peng_>Guspaz|m: Psh, why would you think they'd let him sleep?
11:01<jonny5>Anyone know much about inode usage? I just did a df -h on my big directory and now open inodes goes up ( ) Is this normal or something to worry about?
11:01<Guspaz|m>open inodes != inode usage
11:01-!-melz [] has joined #linode
11:01-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
11:01<Guspaz|m>errm, bad choice of words.
11:01<jonny5>Is having a lot open much to worry about? Like 40,000
11:01-!-mbbx6spp [] has joined #linode
11:02-!-mbbx6spp [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:02<Desph>Eh whats an inode
11:02<Guspaz|m>how is babby formed
11:02<straterra>How does girl get pragnant
11:02<jonny5>Used... I'm sorry I mean open inodes... does having a lot open (e.g. 40k) cause problems or is it generally fine?
11:02<Peng_>how is urmom formed
11:03-!-mbbx6spp [] has joined #linode
11:03<@pparadis_>or this works too :) -->
11:03<amitz>straterra: oh, I know that one! by kissing!
11:03<Desph>yay support haz removed mah private ip
11:04<jonny5>SpaceHobo: I just mean, if I have a lot of inodes _open_ is that generally a problem
11:04<Desph>SpaceHobo: Pssh I doubt it
11:04<linbot>New news from forums: Proper SSL Apache2 Port Config in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
11:04<Desph>Hmm cool
11:04<Desph>It'd be more helpful without the < and > so i could click the link
11:05<jonny5>THE GIBSON will hack us
11:05<@pparadis_>Desph: having lots of small files frequently results in inode depletion (such as cases where you have millions of tiny temp or image files that aren't still needed).
11:05<spkitty>hackers taught me that there are miniature cities inside my computer
11:05<jonny5>Lord Nikon taught me to spy on passwords while being typed
11:05<Desph>pparadis_: I see, alright
11:05-!-fifth_interval [] has joined #linode
11:05<Guspaz|m>Desph: Your IRC client sucks. You should support Linode and use Mibbit.
11:05<cg2112>They fixed me up. Thanks guys
11:06-!-cg2112 [] has quit [Quit: cg2112 has no reason]
11:06<Desph>Guspaz|m: I paid liek money for this IRC client. Linkinus
11:06<Desph>Guspaz|m: I'd hate to use mibbit. I prefer native apps
11:06-!-fifth_interval [] has quit []
11:07<jonny5>Anyone got a linode promotion code :)
11:07<Guspaz|m>Desph: I used to think that. But mibbit has come a long way, and with Chrome set up to treat it as a web app (no UI, just a window border and the content), it looks like a native app.
11:07-!-felixc [] has joined #linode
11:07<Desph>Guspaz|m: Or, I can use the native app I like because chrome is a giant ram hog
11:08<jkwood>irssi lets you right-click it.
11:08<felixc>hi all, is there a problem with the newark data centre?
11:08<jkwood>Not anymore.
11:08<Desph>jonny5: No codes floating around here. :P I wish tough
11:08<jonny5>ok thanks anyway
11:08<amitz>Guspaz|m: what's the relationship between Mibbit and linode?
11:08<Guspaz|m>amitz: Mibbit is hosted on three Linodes.
11:08<Guspaz|m>Greater usage of mibbit produces more revenue for Linode.
11:08<Desph>Guspaz|m: How do you learn this stuff
11:09<felixc>@jkwood was that in response to me? what was the issue?
11:09<Guspaz|m>Desph: What, that it's hosted at Linode? The author lurks in the forums. He posted graphs yesterday showing how the reboots affected him.
11:09<amitz>Guspaz|m: oh, I thought that meansdownloading mibbits = more bandwidth load for linode :-p
11:09-!-tim [] has joined #linode
11:09<Desph>Guspaz|m: Link pls
11:09<jkwood>felixc: The hosts had to be rebooted.
11:09<Guspaz|m>amitz: Mibbit is a web IRC client.
11:10<jkwood>If yuor linode is inaccessible, you should be able to get at it with lish and bring the network back up.
11:10<felixc>ok...why were the hosts rebooted?
11:10<Desph>felixc: Updating some libraries, things didnt go as planned
11:10<felixc>cool, thanks, anything to be worried about going forward?
11:11<Guspaz|m>Graphs on that page.
11:11<Peng_>Guspaz|m: axod is in here sometimes too.
11:11<Guspaz|m>What does he run?
11:11<Guspaz|m>(he was here yesterday)
11:12<felixc>anyone from linode in here?
11:12<Peng_>felixc: Well, probably not; this is the first time this has happened, and presumably they'll be even more careful in the future.
11:12<jkwood>He's the guy behind mibbit.
11:12<Desph>Guspaz|m: What does he use to get those graphs like that? :P
11:12<jkwood>pparadis_: ping
11:12-!-quickleft [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:12<Guspaz|m>Desph: Chrome, I find, uses a large amount of memory at any given time, but less over time (except for long-running processes, like... mibbit). Anyhow, surely there are other browsers with a similar feature to make web-apps appear native.
11:13<JshWright>I like Prism
11:14<jkwood>Well, he was here.
11:15<Desph>Why does one of the apache processes run as root while the others run as www-data
11:15<Guspaz|m>About graphs, rrdtool at the heart of it. Might be custom, might be a munin plugin? Not sure.
11:15<fapestniegd>Desph: so it can bind to 80 and 443
11:15<felixc>it's more than a little frustrating that I recieved no email telling me the host had been rebooted; have had services down that need some TLC to come up. I don't mind the servers having to be rebooted, but someone needs to inform affected customers
11:15<JshWright>amitz: if you see "axod" in IRC, that's the mibbit guy
11:15<Desph>fapestniegd: thanks
11:15-!-spkitty_ [] has joined #linode
11:16<Desph>felixc: yep
11:16<Guspaz|m>JshWright: That might explain why last night he was the only person other than me using mibbit in here :P
11:16<jonny5>Ah I'm tired of this server nonsense, I'm making a new linode and moving stuff there.
11:16-!-daMaestro [] has joined #linode
11:17<Desph>jonny5: why would that fix anything
11:17<Guspaz|m>His old linode runs WIndows Me?
11:17-!-Syrogen [] has joined #linode
11:17<Desph>I prefer windows 98 man
11:18-!-mml [~d00d@] has joined #linode
11:18<erikh>Desph: to listen on ports below 1024, you need to be superuser, at least on a unix system
11:18<felixc>Were any of these libraries/kernel updates pushed to the VM's, or were they only applied to the dom0?
11:18<Desph>erikh: I remember that now, I just seemd to forget :P
11:18<erikh>ah, ok. was just trying to give you a clearer answer.
11:19<Guspaz|m>felixc: Should have just been dom0
11:19-!-jdb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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11:19-!-spkitty_ is now known as spkitty
11:20<jkwood>They won't mess with your personal linode.
11:20<jkwood>Updating software on it is your responsibility.
11:21-!-editor [] has quit [Quit: editor]
11:21<Peng_>Well, if you were on one of the "Latest" kernels, and they put up a new one and forced a reboot, it could count as pushing it to the guests.
11:21-!-tim [] has quit [Quit: tim]
11:21<supine>have they ever done that?
11:22<Guspaz|m>I doubt they'd do that unless the existing kernel was riding a flaming unicycle while balancing skewered babies on spikes whilst running over orphen puppies.
11:22<bss>i want to run that kernel
11:23-!-timg [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
11:23<JshWright>Guspaz|m: "Latest" is a meta option that selects the "latest" kernel. If the "latest" has changed since you last rebooted, rebooting changes your kernel
11:23<jkwood>Yeah, but YOU push the reboot button, not them.
11:24<jkwood>Also, as far as I'm aware, it's not really a meta option.
11:24<Eman>except yesterday
11:24<JshWright>jkwood: tell that to everyone who got rebooted yesterday
11:24<jkwood>... They didn't push a new kernel and force a reboot, though. That was a host issue.
11:24<jonny5>Anyone know if freemont48 was the one with disk problems recently?
11:24<Peng_>jonny5: ...The status forum?
11:25<quanin>it was one of the ones being investigated last night.
11:25<jonny5>bleh my new linode is on freemont48, i want a nice one!
11:25<JshWright>jkwood: but it's likely the "Latest" kernel has changed for a lot of users between when they last intentionally rebooted, and when they were forcibly rebooted
11:25<JshWright>I'm not saying the end goal was updating people kernels, I'm just saying it likely happended as a side effect
11:25<jonny5>OK nothing mentioned in the status or on a forum search so should be fine
11:26<JshWright>it's not that big a deal, since people running on the "Latest" option should realize it's a possibility that will happen
11:26<quanin>JshWright: and they didn't go into the lpm and select their current version at any time during those 200+ days of uptime they were complaining about because...?
11:26-!-tim [] has joined #linode
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11:27<jkwood>Again, I'm pretty sure it's not a meta ioption.
11:27<Eman>i keep mine set to "latest 2.6" because i want it to update if it ever reboots
11:27<JshWright>jkwood: I'm pretty sure it is
11:27-!-aarhus [~aarhus@] has quit [Quit: aarhus]
11:27<JshWright>if you're running "Latest", then you get the latest kernel whenever you reboot
11:27<jkwood>Then again, I sepcifically pick my kernel.
11:28-!-kyhwana_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:28<quanin>the only time i reboot is when i'm updating the kernel. except yesterday, when apparently one of my linodes was on the rebooted list and i didn't even know it. ah well, not like anyone but me is depending on the servers i'm running.
11:28<Eman>theres only a 50/50 chance my linode will even reboot
11:29-!-elfgoh [] has joined #linode
11:29*Peng_ decides to stop using "Latest" kernels.
11:29-!-mawolf is now known as Guest124
11:29-!-mawolf [~mw@] has joined #linode
11:29<erikh>but but but, they're the newest, that means they're the most bug-free, amirite? :)
11:29<Desph>Peng_: Yeah, I feel good now
11:30<quanin>the only latest kernel you're absolutely safe using is latest stable. and only because that hasn't updated since 2.6.18. :P
11:30<Desph>quanin: Thats what I'm using :P
11:30<Peng_>quanin: What do you mean? It's not "absolutely safe".
11:30<Peng_>quanin: Also, it's updated regularly.
11:30<erikh>I miss when you could actually determine if a linux kernel was deemed stable by its version number
11:31<Peng_>Not frequently, but...
11:31<straterra>erikh: when was that?
11:31<erikh>back when they didn't release a patchlevel every 20 minutes
11:31-!-littlejohn [] has joined #linode
11:31<erikh>straterra: 2.4.x
11:31<Peng_>erikh: Even a "stable" kernel has bugs.
11:31<straterra>All of 2.4 was stable
11:31<jonny5>Eman I'll save the update when reboot comment for if it ever stings you :)
11:31<erikh>straterra: a hell of a lot more of it was.
11:31<straterra>Officially, 2.4 was all stable
11:31-!-Clorith [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:31<erikh>well, yes
11:31-!-EvanC [~evan@] has joined #linode
11:31<erikh>and 2.6 is just whatever upstream decides to fart out this week
11:31<erikh>anyways, I digress
11:32<felixc>OK, I didn't really want to open a can of worms with my question. Two outcomes I'd like to see from this...can I be assured that the VM's were snapshotted *before* updates were applied to the dom0, and can linode be sure to send an email next itme this happens so I'm aware
11:32*felixc goes to set up his own notification too ;)
11:32<Desph>I doubt they got snapshotted
11:33<jforman>felixc: best to submit a ticket. !ops arent watching all the time to every line
11:33<quanin>jonny5: your problem is a compounded one. you switched hosts, which shouldn't have effected anything. plus you upgraded the OS. plus you upgraded, by choice or otherwise, the kernel. any one of those could have caused all kinds of funness.
11:33-!-Guest124 [~mw@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:33<Desph>felixc: What type of system are you gonna setup to monitor it
11:33-!-felixc [] has quit [Quit: felixc]
11:34<jkwood>I figure they're probably having a meeting about what happened. Or triage.
11:34<straterra>Or getting sleep
11:34<quanin>well, that's probably where pparadis_ is.
11:35<jonny5>quanin: yes
11:35<EvanC>Hey guys, what kind of problems would I be looking if I was still affected by the downtime yesterday? I can ssh in, but Apache doesn't want to start/restart. Is this my problem or Linodes?
11:35-!-spkitty_ [] has joined #linode
11:35<EvanC>httpd not running, trying to start
11:35<EvanC>(98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to address
11:35<EvanC>no listening sockets available, shutting down
11:35<EvanC>Unable to open logs
11:35-!-tim [] has quit [Quit: tim]
11:36-!-littlejohn [] has quit []
11:36<quanin>EvanC: it's trying to bind to try changing it to your own IP address, or *.
11:36<Peng_>EvanC: Maybe something really is listening on port 80 already. Check lsof -i or netstat.
11:36<quanin>that too.
11:36<quanin>or point your browser to that port and see what, if anything, answers.
11:37<Desph>or telnet
11:37<EvanC>Yeah, nothing.
11:37<adj> is * ;)
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11:37<Desph>Um, whats the debian version of lsof Peng_
11:37<adj>EvanC: lsof -i -n -P | grep LIST | grep 80
11:37-!-[FS]Wiz [] has joined #linode
11:37<EvanC>adj: nothing
11:38<Peng_>Desph: lsof
11:38<Desph>Or do I need to apt-get install it
11:38<adj>then you are not using the root account to start the service
11:38<Peng_>Desph: Perhaps you do.
11:38<EvanC>Oh damn, good call adj (doh)
11:38<Peng_>Desph: (Well, I'm on Ubuntu; Debian could be different. But I doubt it.)
11:38<Desph>Peng_: apt-get found it
11:38<EvanC>apache2 2875 root 3u IPv4 7189 TCP *:80 (LISTEN)
11:38<adj>EvanC: because either a) you don't have permission to open a socket on ports <1024, or b) something has already bound to that port
11:39-!-[FS]Wiz [] has left #linode []
11:39<adj>EvanC: :P
11:39<EvanC>I can't seem to access my sites through a browser though; should I kill 2875 and try to start apache again?
11:40<adj>EvanC: yep
11:40<adj>killall $(pgrep apache2)
11:40<Guspaz|m>Why not "killall apache2" ?
11:40<EvanC>oops, went with pkill apache2
11:40<adj>meh, meant that to say kill $(pgrep foo)
11:41<Guspaz|m>Why the pgrep?
11:41<Guspaz|m>errm, oh, kill.
11:41-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@] has joined #linode
11:41<Guspaz|m>Why use kill when killall and pkill will do the matching for you?
11:41-!-hpj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:41<EvanC>Fantastic, working again, thanks very much adj
11:41<adj>Guspaz|m: yeah. kill is more ubiquitous than killall, so its just habit
11:42<adj>if you are scripting things it makes your code more portable
11:42<adj>EvanC: np
11:43<aquillar>KILL DASH 9 and your process is mine
11:43<aquillar>KILL DASH 9 no more cpu time
11:43<linode11365>hello. I'm having trouble with my loadavg going through the roof. any suggestions?
11:43<Desph>damn theres like nothing on TV
11:44-!-Bryanstein [] has quit [Quit: Bryanstein]
11:44<straterra>kill -9 doesnt kill everything
11:44<jonny5>What kind of figures are people getting from hdparm -tT /dev/xvda
11:45-!-Twayne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:45<adj>jonny5: probably bogus ones ;) hdparm isn't really that useful
11:46<Guspaz|m>I didn't realize that killall wasn't always available. I've never seen it not available, although I have a limited sample set.
11:46-!-josespinal [] has joined #linode
11:47<adj>i could be being overly pedantic
11:47<adj>its happened before :P
11:49-!-EvanC [~evan@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:49<josespinal>can anyone help me figure out what's wrong with mysql? it's failing to start and when I go to the logs nothing shows
11:49<josespinal>the main reason I stopped it is because the socket was missing
11:50-!-rogi [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:52<TLKit>Lol ^.
11:53<linode11365>seen it ;)
11:53*josespinal *help*
11:53<meshe>josespinal: did you check /var/log/mysql and /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog?
11:54<Peng_>I hadn't seen it before. Nice.
11:54<Desph>anyone here have a tivo?
11:55<mml> /part
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11:56<josespinal>meshe: didn't check syslog
11:56-!-chemosh [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:58<josespinal>meshe: nothing mysql-related there
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11:59<@jed>good morning everyone
11:59<@jed>how are you all doing? hanging in there?
11:59<jkwood>Hey there, jed.
11:59<TLKit>jed: Yep, I think everyone is just ironing out little kinks.
11:59<TLKit>From the looks of things, anyway.
11:59<Desph>jed: Eh yeah. makes it worse when im sick as a dog and got nothing better to do than sit here and chat
12:00<jkwood>Got reminded that I forgot to automagically set my route on reboots. ;)
12:00<meshe>josespinal: where did you get the message that the socket wasn't there?
12:00*JshWright leaps across the room and stabs jed multiple times
12:00<JshWright>Good morning sir ;)
12:00<@jed>good morning
12:01<@jed>all hands are on deck right now plugging through tickets, guys, and we've noticed this inittab and fstab being a recurring issues
12:01<josespinal>meshe: When I went to the site, rails warned me it couldn't connect due to: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) (Mysql::Error)
12:01<Desph>josespinal: Is it possible your socket is in /tmp/mysql.sock and you need to make an alias?
12:02<josespinal>Desph: nothing there either
12:02<josespinal>was looking for it to do a symlink
12:02<adj>there won't be if mysql isnt running
12:02<Desph>Hmm whats /etc/my.cnf saying
12:03<Desph>And yeah, mysql is running?
12:03-!-spkitty [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:03<josespinal>Desph: no, I said it didn't want to start
12:03<josespinal>and logs don't show anything
12:04<josespinal>It was working ok...I didn't touch that linode since last week
12:04<josespinal>and today this?
12:04<josespinal>that's weird
12:05-!-johndbritton [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:05<meshe>josespinal: did you try restarting the mysql server?
12:06<meshe>as root: /etc/init.d/mysql start
12:06<meshe>as root: /etc/init.d/mysql restart
12:06<meshe>it sounds like it's not running
12:06<josespinal> * Stopping MySQL database server mysqld
12:06<josespinal> ...done.
12:06<josespinal> * Starting MySQL database server mysqld
12:07<meshe>and restarting it will put errors into your logs if it can't start
12:07<meshe>josespinal: what distro?
12:07-!-lark [] has joined #linode
12:07<josespinal>ubuntu 9.04
12:08-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:08<adj>start it manually, not with an init script
12:08<Desph><3 debian hehe
12:08-!-lark [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:09-!-johndbritton [] has joined #linode
12:09<adj>johndbritton: try starting mysql manually, not with the init script
12:09-!-lark [] has joined #linode
12:09<meshe>/usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/usr --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --log-error=/var/lib/mysql/michelle-laptop.err --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/ --socket=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock --port=3306
12:09<meshe>something like that
12:09<adj>meshe: i would prefer he uses the same sysntax the init script is using
12:10<meshe>adj: that's what my ubuntu 9.04 is using :)
12:10<josespinal>which one should i use?
12:10-!-handle_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:11<@jed>josespinal: grep start-stop-daemon /etc/init.d/mysql
12:11<@jed>that'll show you what your init script uses
12:11<@jed>use something like it
12:11<lark>will i find a solution in the topic thread about my image which will refuse to mount correctly causing boot failure?
12:11<meshe>/usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/usr --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --log-error=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.err --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/ --socket=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock --port=3306
12:12<JshWright>lark: open a ticket if you're having issues booting
12:12<meshe>there's a more general version of it
12:12<@tychoish>lark can you boot into finix and run an fsck from there?
12:12<lark>JshWright: Already did, was given a command that didn't work
12:12<lark>tychoish: fsck after running the mknode returns no errors
12:12<lark>running the e2fsck -b 8193 command returns bad magic block
12:13<lark>I'm not acquainted well enough with *nix to know what magic block i should be using
12:13<josespinal>meshe: didn't start but the error was logged
12:13<lark>i have a feeling this was caused by the instance being improperly shut down
12:14-!-nessenj_ [] has joined #linode
12:14<adj>josespinal: lsof -i -n -P | grep LIST | grep 3306
12:14-!-nessenj [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:14-!-nessenj_ is now known as nessenj
12:15<josespinal>adj: nothing was returned
12:15<@jed>lark: let me have a look, what's your linode username?
12:16-!-eishay [] has joined #linode
12:16<jess^>metasyntactic variables ftw
12:16<lark>jed: i thought it was kernel related, and i think someone in the ticket confirmed that
12:16<lark>i'm testing their solution
12:16<Desph>mikegrb: Are you just a script schedueled to say lolz every 10 minutes?
12:16<jonny5>Oh geez, is it just me or does not even respond to SSH now?
12:16<jess^>foo bar baz foobar screech yelp splat
12:16<jkwood>He's a primitive lolbot that makes the rest of us lolbots look bad.
12:16<Desph>Hmm apparently
12:16<tarpman>jess^: quuux!
12:16<jess^>Desph: he responds to lol
12:17<jess^>and rofl
12:17<jess^>and he eats cake.
12:17-!-johndbritton [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:17<jkwood>linbot and I are planning his assassination soon.
12:17<jess^>I SAID CAKE
12:17<jess^>cake dammit
12:17<Desph>cake lol
12:17<tarpman>mikegrb is broken :<
12:17<jess^>say something about cake?
12:17<Desph>pls lol
12:17<linbot>Vive la revolucion!
12:17<lark>woot linode owns
12:17<linbot>tarpman: Yo momma so old that when God said 'let there be light', she hit the switch. (841:1/1) [mrmou]
12:18-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
12:18<Yaakov>caker: Ping?
12:18<jess^>vivas - the little heath droplets from commander keen :D
12:18<lark>so glad my drive wasn't corrupted from the outage
12:18<lark>thats all i was worried about
12:18<lark>jed: it was the kernel
12:18<eishay>hi there, i still can't ssh to my linode machine, posted a ticket and joined the #linode-is-broken room, both didn't help. Any ideas?
12:18<josespinal>meshe: suggestions?
12:18<jess^>eishay: poke someone with an @ :)
12:18<jkwood>eishay: Can you get in through lish?
12:19<adj>josespinal: something is preventing it from starting. sounds like something is holding the socket
12:19<jonny5>eishay: What host are you on?
12:19-!-Clorith [] has joined #linode
12:19<meshe>did you run the command that adj gave you?
12:19<adj>josespinal: clean up old .sock files and verify the permissions on your data dir
12:19<josespinal>meshe: yes
12:19<josespinal>adj: no .sock files
12:19<josespinal>meshe: nothing
12:19<jess^>jed: is there any way i can modify the cookie that i get fed by linode's cp so it DOESN'T log me out EVER?
12:19<meshe>netstat -l | grep 3306
12:20-!-lark [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
12:20<eishay>jonny5: atlanta40
12:20<adj>also, lsof | grep mysql
12:20<Peng_>jess^: They might do it server-side too.
12:20<jess^>Peng_: prolly
12:20<eishay>jkwood: no lish for us
12:20<jess^>being logged out is a drag,
12:20<jess^>i need to finish my api wrapper :)
12:21<meshe>er... netstat -ln | grep 3306
12:21<josespinal>adj: that one returned something
12:21-!-slatpupy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
12:21<adj>nothing of interest though
12:21<Desph>tcp 0 0* LISTEN
12:22<Desph>that'd be the response you'd want
12:23<jkwood>eishay: Then my advice is rendered null and void. Carry on.
12:23-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has left #linode []
12:23<josespinal>damn it
12:23<chesty>josespinal: pastebin /etc/mysql/my.cnf
12:24<Desph>use teh kitty to open it
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12:24-!-eishay [] has joined #linode
12:25-!-alester_ [] has joined #linode
12:26<chesty>what about ifconfig lo?
12:26-!-alester_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:26<josespinal>chesty: what about it?
12:27<josespinal>chesty: nothing mysql related
12:27-!-johndbritton [] has joined #linode
12:27<meshe>paste it
12:27-!-mbbx6spp [] has quit [Quit: mbbx6spp]
12:27<meshe>what's the ip on the lo interface?
12:28<meshe>mysql is trying to bind to, if lo is using a different one then it won't be able to bind to it
12:28<chesty>ah, bingo
12:28<chesty>ifdown lo;ifup lo
12:28<adj>oh man. thats a riot. i didn't see that one coming.
12:28<josespinal>i'm lost guys
12:28<adj>that would have been item 1839893 on my list of things to check
12:28<meshe>restart mysql josespinal
12:29<Desph>lol adj
12:29<@jed>if you guys have a ticket in currently --
12:29<@jed>hang with us, I'm chopping through them as is everyone else
12:29*Yaakov punishes meshe for being helpful.
12:29<chesty>josespinal: lo isn't configured, it's supposed to be
12:29<jonny5>Ooo my iowait magically has gone down a tonne
12:29<josespinal>chesty: can you help me configure it?
12:30<Desph>wow my brother is a whiny bitch
12:30<chesty>what does ifup lo do?
12:30<Guspaz|m>KARATE CHOP!
12:30<josespinal>Failed to bring up lo.
12:30<chesty>pastebin /etc/network/interfaces
12:31<adj>josespinal: /etc/init.d/networking restart (that is the deb/ubunut way, right)
12:31<chesty>comment out the pre-up line for a minute
12:32<chesty>then ifup lo
12:32<chesty>ifconfig lo
12:32<chesty>ifup lo first
12:33<chesty>then check to see if it's configured with ifconfig lo
12:33<josespinal>ifup: interface lo already configured
12:33<chesty>ifdown lo
12:33<josespinal>nothing returned
12:33<chesty>ifup lo
12:33<josespinal>nothing returned
12:33<chesty>ifconfig lo
12:33<chesty>do you see
12:34<chesty>ok, restart mysql
12:34-!-SDjernes [] has joined #linode
12:34-!-SDjernes1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:34<chesty>you know, it might be better if you reboot, since other services might be affected
12:35<josespinal>:D :D
12:35<chesty>before you reboot though
12:35<josespinal>chesty: worked
12:35<josespinal>should i reboot now?
12:35<chesty>run sudo iptables-restore < /etc/iptables.up.rules
12:35<josespinal>bash: /etc/iptables.up.rules: No such file or directory
12:36-!-h00s_ is now known as binel
12:36<chesty>well, you don't have a filewall script
12:36<chesty>are you bothered by that?
12:36<josespinal>what do you suggest?
12:36<chesty>i would learn ufw
12:36<chesty>leave the pre-up line commented out
12:37<josespinal>i will reboot, what do you think?
12:37<chesty>good idea
12:37<linbot>New news from forums: Webserver Load Roundup Question Session in General Discussion <>
12:38<josespinal>chesty: everything working
12:39<josespinal>chesty: thanks a lot and to everyone that helped
12:39<chesty>cool, np
12:39<josespinal>meshe, adj: thanks
12:39<jkwood>Behold the power of Slackware.
12:39<josespinal>now I will learn ufw to secure things out
12:40<chesty>apparently it's pretty easy to learn
12:41-!-johndbritton_ [] has joined #linode
12:42-!-techman224 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:42*josespinal respects a lot sysadmins, it's like million things for just one problem
12:43<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
12:43<Guspaz|m>Joy, slackware, where any package updates must be done by hand because there's no package management system.
12:43<jess^>it isn't a canned response
12:43<@mikegrb>mmm cake
12:43<Guspaz|m>mikegrb: Sssh, you're not supposed to say anything but "lolz" and "mmm cake"
12:44<chesty>jess^: it is canned, but it's like 1 in every 4 or something
12:44<linbot>mwalling is a noob
12:44<jess^>hey i like ubuntu
12:45<jess^>i have to use FreeBSD at work and ubuntu is a nice easy refreshing change
12:45<jkwood>Ah, it's nice to know that some things don't change.
12:45<quanin>even if the series is no more?
12:45<jess^>f number of $50 bills in a five pound box of fifties
12:45<jess^>!f number of $50 bills in a five pound box of fifties
12:45<linbot>jess^: I'm afraid I can't do that
12:46<jkwood>Yes, but in Ubuntu you have things like Firefox depending on the Randomly Break Firefox extension.
12:46<quanin>wasn't that a 9.04 highlight?
12:47-!-johndbritton [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:47-!-johndbritton_ is now known as johndbritton
12:48<randallman>Dollars per pound? :P
12:48<Guspaz|m>!f 100 $50 bills in lbs
12:48<linbot>Guspaz|m: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it
12:48-!-cmjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:48<Guspaz|m>!newcalc 100 $50 bills in lbs
12:48-!-meshe [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:48<linbot>Guspaz|m: You broke teh goog!
12:48<Guspaz|m>!newcalc $1.49 cad per litre in usd per gallon
12:48<linbot>Guspaz|m: You broke teh goog!
12:48-!-vuf [~am@] has joined #linode
12:48<Guspaz|m>Fail! Fail!
12:48<Guspaz|m>!help newcalc
12:48<linbot>Guspaz|m: (newcalc <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "web title$nick&q=$*".
12:49<randallman>1 gram per bill
12:49<Guspaz|m>SelfishMan: DEATH HAS OCCURED.
12:49<randallman>any denomincation
12:49<randallman>err denomination
12:49<Guspaz|m>randallman: Only for US bills.
12:49<randallman>so 454 dollars per LB
12:49<randallman>yes, us bills
12:49-!-amiel [] has joined #linode
12:49<Guspaz|m>Which are funny shaped/looking anyhow.
12:49<randallman>Funny Shaped?
12:49<randallman>its a frakking rectangle :)
12:49<chesty>and green
12:49<Guspaz|m>They're long and thin, it's wierd. And they're all the same colour, which is stupid.
12:49*randallman pbbt.... The US dollar was the standard for over 50 years :P Get ove rit
12:49<chesty>au currency is brightly coloured
12:50-!-atambo [~atambo@ATAMB0.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #linode
12:50<Guspaz|m>Well they started adding some colour to the newer US currency, but it's just a highlight that you can barely see.
12:50<Yaakov>The denominations are in large, colored numbers.
12:50<quanin>randallman: emphasis on "was". :P
12:50<Guspaz|m>Yeah it looks like the euro is pretty much the global currency these days.
12:50<randallman>Everyone is just having a crisis of perception :)
12:50<randallman>the US will return one day to its prior economic brightness :0
12:50<Guspaz|m>Of course, since the Canadian and US economies are so tightly integrated, all we really care about here is the US/Canada exchange rate and US/Canadian currency.
12:51<Guspaz|m>Which reminds me, I need some US cash for my trip to the US this Friday.
12:51<Yaakov>There is a subtle purple highlight...
12:51-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
12:51<quanin>randallman: and by then, everyone else will be buying from china and it won't make much difference.
12:51<Guspaz|m>Yaakov: It's still subtle, which makes nosense.
12:52<Yaakov>I was being sarcastic.
12:52<chesty>and made of paper, and all the same size
12:52<randallman>Quanin, I'd like to think that the US will remain the king of food :P
12:52<randallman>But I doubt that will remain...
12:52<quanin>randallman: maybe eating it. :P
12:52-!-jonny5 [] has quit [Quit: jonny5]
12:52<randallman>Ever play Civ4?
12:52<randallman>Every society has triggers for a 'golden age'
12:53<quanin>actually, no.
12:53<randallman>the US golden age went from 1942 to until about 1982...
12:53<randallman>Right after the oil crisis settled down
12:53<randallman>perhaps even more like 1978
12:53<randallman>Well the mechanic in Civ4 is that some event happens (like a war, or a research item is achieved)
12:53<jkwood>Well, all the other arable land is owned by dictatorships who deliberately don't allow them to be planted.
12:53<randallman>and then that society experiences double production, gold, food, etc... for that period :)
12:53<quanin>they won't let us put hockey on our money. too politically incorrect.
12:54<randallman>jkwood, brasil?
12:54<quanin>which is funny, considering... we're canadian, hockey's canadian.
12:54<randallman>They've sacrificed the rest of the planet with thier rain forest killing to plant corn
12:54-!-fred__ [] has joined #linode
12:54<randallman>So that they can burn it ;)
12:54<Guspaz|m>quanin: Huh? Hockey *IS* on our money.
12:54-!-mawolf [~mw@] has quit [Quit: Alea iactus est.]
12:54<Guspaz|m>Oh, you mean gambling?
12:55<jkwood>randallman: Aren't they too busy making adult videos and dancing to produce food?
12:55<randallman>and creating UFC fighters? :P
12:55-!-kassah [] has joined #linode
12:55<Yaakov>We have hot native chicks on our money:
12:55<quanin>Guspaz: ... it is? well. if i could see the bloody bills i'd know that already.
12:55<Guspaz|m>quanin: Impaired vision?
12:56<quanin>no. no vision.
12:56-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has joined #linode
12:56<chesty>far queue
12:56<Guspaz|m>The back of the five dollar bill has a scene of children playing hockey and the following quote from the short story "The Hockey Sweater":
12:56<randallman>Im not entirely sure how the dollar keeps sucking against the EU though... if not for the crisis of perception...
12:56<randallman>our GDP is still higher, is it not?
12:56<Guspaz|m>"The winters of my childhood were long, long seasons. We lived in three places - the school, the church and the skating rink - but our real life was on the skating rink."
12:57<Guspaz|m>In both French and English.
12:57<Yaakov>randallman: It is policy to keep the dollar low just now.
12:57<Guspaz|m>randallman: Compared to the EU? The US is smaller for quite a while now.
12:57<randallman>smaller GDP?
12:57<Guspaz|m>Yeah, I believe it was GDP I was looking at.
12:57<quanin>randallman: your dollar's sucking against pretty much every currency right now. hell, it's damn near equal with canada.
12:58<Guspaz|m>randallman: EU GDP is 18.4 trillion, US GDP is 14.4 trillion
12:58<randallman>Yeah ok 2008 est is 14.26 tril
12:58-!-jimmy1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:58<quanin>they're forcing by end of year the canadian dollar will be worth more than the US.
12:58<randallman>for the US and is margianlly higher for the EU
12:58<randallman>but that was 2008
12:58<randallman>2009 we totally tanked...
12:59<Guspaz|m>quanin: The Canadian dollar was worth more than the US dollar briefly a year or two ago.
12:59<randallman>But then again the EU is not a country
12:59<randallman>the last time the EU *was* one country, well....
12:59<randallman>Gordon's Law?
12:59<quanin>Guspaz: true.
12:59<Guspaz|m>randallman: Economically it more or less is.
12:59<randallman>Guspaz, Im sure its significantly more complex than that :)
12:59-!-sd [] has joined #linode
13:00<quanin>randallman: i think they're trying to get some of that single country mentality back again.
13:00<Guspaz|m>randallman: Sure, but they have a common central bank, a common currency, laws to prevent price disparity between countries, a unified tax, a unified government...
13:00<Guspaz|m>The EU is like a single country in many ways.
13:00<megatron27>Guspaz|m: interesting
13:00<randallman>Certainly not militarily...
13:00<jkwood>In a lot of ways, the US is not like a single country.
13:00<quanin>that's why you can move about most of the EU with relative ease.
13:00<sd>hi guys, is there a way to receive an email when my linode reboots? can't find in control panel
13:01<jkwood>Createa script to email yourself, then put it in the init scripts.
13:01<Guspaz|m>randallman: I'm no expert, but I think of the EU as a lot like the US, only except there's more independence between states. It's a primarily economic union, I believe.
13:01<randallman>Damnit, conf call, this conversation is mostly interesting tho :)
13:01<quanin>jkwood: i actually had someone ask me point blank once what's so bloody united about the united states. it was kind of amusing.
13:01<randallman>Guspaz, not militarily tho
13:01<Guspaz|m>quanin: I'm surprised that screen readers can keep up with IRC fast enough to be useful.
13:01<randallman>the US, all of the states have a combined military :)
13:01<randallman>and ergo a combined cost :)
13:01<randallman>a combined research arm, etc...
13:01<megatron27>huh? the US is as united as you can get
13:02<quanin>Guspaz: they can do just about anything you can do without one, if you know how.
13:02<sd>ok, thanks jkwood
13:02<Guspaz|m>randallman: Yeah, not militarily, but a combined military is part of the reason the US economy is in the toilet now. How many trillions of dollars has the US pumped into their combined military over the past decade?
13:02<chesty>can they look at porn?
13:02<Guspaz|m>quanin: I was thinking more, that thing must be speaking very fast.
13:02-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
13:02<randallman>Enough to remain quite powerful... :)
13:02<quanin>megatron27: i can probably bury you in proof otherwise.
13:02<randallman>I'd hate to kill government military spending - lots of research
13:02<jess^>is it worth sending abuse reports to the ARIN abuse contact of IP's that habitually try to dictionary attack me?
13:02<Guspaz|m>I'm quite disappointed that Microsoft Sam was dropped in Windows 7! He was a lot easier to understand than Microsoft Anna :(
13:02<randallman>Jess, no not really...
13:03<quanin>Guspaz: nah. i usually talk faster than i have this set right now.
13:03<Guspaz|m>Except when Microsoft Sam tries to say "soy". It's highly amusing.
13:03<vuf>jess^: if you worry about dictionary attacks, you have something to fix
13:03<Guspaz|m>He says it like swah
13:03<Desph>vuf: solution?
13:03<jess^>vuf: 'fix'? nah, i let fail2ban take care of them
13:03<Guspaz|m>But with less vocalisation and more wind.
13:03<Yaakov>fail2ban is a waste of time.
13:04<Desph>jess^: Mind helping a noob setup fail2ban?
13:04<quanin>microsoft's definition of accessibility is a joke. that might have been top of the line in the 80's.
13:04<Desph>Oh, why Yaakov
13:04<jess^>Desph: what distro?
13:04<Yaakov>Because by the time they are banned they are done.
13:04<vuf>jess^: well, that's one way to fix it ...
13:04<Guspaz|m>The screen reader must have a great time trying to read IRC nicks.
13:04<jess^>Desph: go uncomment the other sources in /etc/apt/sources.list and then apt-get install fail2ban
13:04<quanin>Yaakov: not to mention fail2ban clears your iptables every time it restarts.
13:05<Guspaz|m>Clears *all* of them?
13:05<Guspaz|m>Even ones that aren't its own?
13:05-!-Pici [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:05<quanin>not sure about all of them, but definitely all of its own.
13:05<jess^>quanin: all it's own, provided they've expired.
13:05<quanin>so if you're expecting it to handle repeat offenders, forget about it.
13:05<Yaakov>I move off 22 to keep my logs clear and just ignore the losers.
13:05<quanin>jess^: no. i actually tested it once. banned myself on purpose, logged into lish 2 minutes later, restarted it. my ban was gone.
13:05<Desph>Yaakov: I've moved off 22 as well. But i'd still like some more security
13:06<quanin>i'd set it to expire in an hour.
13:06<chesty>keeps the log clear and saves resources
13:06<Yaakov>Desph: That's not additional security. It's meaningless.
13:06<Yaakov>If you want more security disable password authentication.
13:06<jess^>quanin: i make a list of repeaters and put them in a iptables script
13:06<Desph>Yaakov: What else would you recommend
13:06<Clorith>someone jsut showed me the most awesome MMORPG ever
13:06<Clorith>Progress Quest
13:06<Clorith>probably old news
13:06<Clorith>but still, hahahaha
13:06<Yaakov>A strong password policy.
13:07<Guspaz|m>It's awesome, but not an MMORPG. It's just a regular RPG.
13:07<Clorith>nono, MMORPG.
13:07<Clorith>it kicks WoW's ass in my book.
13:07-!-msamour [] has joined #linode
13:07<Desph>Clorith: Yeah, looks SOOO cool. a shitty designed website with mainly windows only support
13:07<Guspaz|m>It didn't used to be MMO.
13:08<Guspaz|m>Desph: I think you're missing the point of Progress Quest. It has the most revolutionary user interface in history: no user input whatsoever.
13:08<Desph>Lol? How you control then
13:08-!-mats [~mats@] has joined #linode
13:08-!-TheJoe [] has joined #linode
13:08<Guspaz|m>Desph: It literally plays itself.
13:08<Clorith>desph, it's all automatic
13:08<quanin>in other words, boring as hell.
13:09<Guspaz|m>Not boring. Those progress bars are high-tech.
13:09<Clorith>it's more amusing to watch then most mmo's I've tried
13:09<tarpman>is that the same thing that's known as irpg/idlerpg other places
13:09<quanin>sounds like it.
13:09<Desph>I don't even see any screenshots
13:09<Guspaz|m>No. Progress Quest has all sorts of progress bars and text boxes and exciting fights.
13:09<msamour>guys my mysql just died
13:09-!-Redgore [] has joined #linode
13:09<msamour>any reason why this should happen?
13:09<jess^>old apge
13:10<jess^>age even
13:10<@mikegrb>mmm cake
13:10<quanin>jess^: easily amused this afternoon? :P
13:10<jess^>quanin: it's morning for me still
13:11<jess^>i work 12p - 9p
13:11<jess^>so i've been up for.... two hours?
13:11<Desph>13:11 har
13:11<Guspaz|m>I can't get up only 50 minutes before work and get to work on time :(
13:11<jess^>yeah, it is , but i don't have to be up until 0900 or 1000
13:11<quanin>whatever. you're still easily amused. :P
13:12<Guspaz|m>Hasn't she always been?
13:12<jess^>i'm not a morning persion by _any_ stretch of the imagination unless i have to be.
13:12<quanin>Guspaz|m: i've gotten up for work and out the door in 15 minutes. not pretty, but definitely doable.
13:12<quanin>of course it means either i get coffee immediately or someone dies, but... eh.
13:12<vuf>Yaakov: so how often do you recommend changing passwords?
13:13<Guspaz|m>vuf: The point is to not *have* passwords
13:13<quanin>jess^: morning? feh. the world shouldn't even start spinning until 10. and that's in an emergency.
13:14<jess^>*puts that on twitter*
13:14<quanin>*collects royalties at gunpoint*
13:14<@jed>I went home at 2 and sam called me and woke me up at 10:30
13:14<@jed>you kids have it easy
13:14<jess^>*puts a pizza combo in the gun barrel*
13:15<@jed>everybody else has been here like 24 hours, I'm the only one who actually has slept
13:15<quanin>jed: oh, done that too. see my above re: coffee.
13:15-!-sd [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:15<quanin>jess^: don't make me stalk you.
13:15<@tychoish>jed: I slept, eventually
13:16<Guspaz|m>jed: What makes you so special that you get to sleep :P
13:16<jess^>jed: i'm the on-call this week where i work. some cocksucker woke me up at 0135 because one user couldn't get into webmail, and didn't ask his supervisor before calling me.
13:16<@jed>Guspaz|m: I'm here freshly slept to relieve the other seniors who've stayed through the night
13:16<@jed>we drew straws on who'd go home, and I lost
13:17<chesty>you wanted to stay?
13:17<Guspaz|m>Don't you mean "won"?
13:17<v0lksman>and its a statement like that that makes me stay with Linode... :)
13:17<@jed>chesty: of course I did
13:17<vuf>Guspaz|m: no passwords is hardly workable
13:18<quanin>jess^: one of the reasons i'm kind of glad i'm between jobs atm. sure as hell don't miss the scheduled off at 5 but don't actually leave until 9...
13:18<jess^>jed: i don't know why these people don't understand 'serverwide issues or site downs and anything else with your supervisor's approval'
13:19<jkwood>Linode doesn't have any employees that think "man, I really hate this job."
13:19-!-mats [~mats@] has quit [Quit: mats]
13:19<quanin>jkwood: they shot the last one.
13:19<Guspaz|m>vuf: Why not?
13:19<jkwood>The pre-hiring interviews at gunpoint help to ensure this.
13:19<jess^>i don't hate my job. it is getting boring though. hopefully i can find something new in the coming year.
13:19<Guspaz|m>vuf: It's the recommended way to do things.
13:19<chesty>i used to be on call, I got woken up at at 2am to be asked if a fault with a telecoms company should be reported to them
13:20<erikh>never quite got this
13:20<quanin>jess^: good luck. i've been looking for over a year. thank you, recession.
13:20<jess^>quanin: i might have to move to do it.
13:20<erikh>"work sucks." of course it does, it wouldn't be called work if we didn't have to do things we wouldn't normally do
13:20<erikh>and we wouldn't get paid for it
13:20<Guspaz|m>quanin: Move to Canada.
13:20<jess^>i mean, i'm prolly going to get laid off in 6-8 months from now anyway. and i'm kind of terrified about that
13:20<Guspaz|m>Never mind.
13:21<quanin>Guspaz|m: you fail.
13:21<Guspaz|m>But we're not in a recession. And when we were, it was the mildest recession in history.
13:21<sblaydes_>you mean: you fail eh
13:21<erikh>that joke's been funny for over 30 years
13:22<quanin>well, my mistake initially was working for dell in the first place. soon as their US operations went sideways we kinda knew they'd be axing jobs in canada.
13:22<quanin>and, sure enough, me and 1300 others didn't have jobs anymore.
13:22<v0lksman>quanin: in Ottawa?
13:22<quanin>v0lksman: yessir.
13:22<v0lksman>quanin: did you go through the ITO stuff that was setup for Dell layoffs?
13:22<quanin>yep. they were just this shy of useless.
13:23<v0lksman>hahah...kinda thought they might...
13:23<v0lksman>was curious
13:23<quanin>take it you used to work there?
13:23<jess^>i can't find adequate medical care in jersey or i'd have applied to linode :)
13:24<v0lksman>nope...wife works YSB, a partner of ITO...I watched it all happen from my prestigious job at Primus...which I then walked from...hahaha
13:25<v0lksman>quanin: the biggest problem with the Ottawa market is everyone wants MS people...
13:25-!-achin____ [] has joined #linode
13:25<v0lksman>tons of jobs if you know .NET and Server product well
13:25<quanin>i thought the biggest problem was more people are getting fired than we have new jobs coming in.
13:25<Guspaz|m>Then learn it?
13:25<Guspaz|m>I work as a C# developer, nobody taught me that shit in school.
13:26-!-stan_still_theman [] has joined #linode
13:26<quanin>we don't all want to be c# developers, though. :P
13:26<v0lksman>Guspaz|m: not really a question of learning it. I just plain don't want to... :)
13:26<straterra>I dont use hardly anything from colleg/high school at my job
13:26<quanin>v0lksman: primus wouldn't even look at my resume. bastards. :P
13:26<v0lksman>quanin: meh...Dell and Nortel were the two biggies...there are still a lot of new jobs out there...
13:27-!-axod [] has joined #linode
13:27<v0lksman>quanin: really? not surprising...they were going down hard when I left...their phones didn't even work...they are a fricken telco
13:27<quanin>so is rogers. i at least got them to call me back.
13:27-!-getsmart [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
13:28<quanin>hell. no.
13:28<v0lksman>hahaha...I was there back in the days when it was Taima... :)
13:28<jess^>the sad part is, i'm a perfect fit for a place like this... but i have no formal education aside from high school so i don't know who else would want me :P
13:28<Guspaz|m>Bah, better C# than Java ;)
13:28<v0lksman>Guspaz|m: very true
13:29<quanin>Guspaz|m: you don't see me learning java either. ;)
13:29-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.53=-]
13:29<v0lksman>in fact I may pick it up soon...a new client of mine is all .NET and I really want their product
13:29<jkwood>Java today is in much better shape than it was when I started programming.
13:30-!-Turl [] has joined #linode
13:30<quanin>i'll leave the development aspect of things to people who can take that kind of brain damage. if i pick it up, it'll be a pass-time. just something to do because i can.
13:30<quanin>kind of like seeing how many ways i can break my linodes now.
13:31-!-nessenj_ [] has joined #linode
13:32-!-achin___ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:34-!-tozz [] has joined #linode
13:34<v0lksman>haha...I went from being a sys-admin to programming a year ago. no damage yet. still fun and interesting to me. sys-admin had gotten will be circuitry....
13:34-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
13:35<quanin>i only had an entry level tech support job at dell anyway. and it was end users besides. so i'm not quite ready for sysadmining yet i don't think.
13:35<v0lksman>quanin: just a yougin? :)
13:35<jess^>i do light sysadmin stuff and enduser support where i'm at now
13:35*quanin nods.
13:35-!-achin____ is now known as achin
13:35<jess^>like pimply-faced-nerd level stuff
13:35<randallman>Lookin back at that EU vs. US in terms of GDP thing.... It's funny how a bunch of countries can just join together to become the #1 GDP in purchasing power parity :)
13:36-!-nessenj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:36-!-nessenj_ is now known as nessenj
13:36<randallman>(I finally got off my conf call :-)
13:36<quanin>randallman: well, they wanted to do the same over here. north american union.
13:36<randallman>hmm, first I ever heard about it :0
13:36<quanin>google it.
13:36<randallman>Im not sure our interests match up too well
13:36<randallman>perhaps US and canada, but
13:36<randallman>Practically, the US doesnt even have matching interests across the entire thing
13:37<quanin>i think it was originally a bush idea. canada, US, mexico.
13:37<randallman>According to the CIA, Canada is 1.3 tril GDP as of 2008
13:38<jkwood>Actaully, the whole Free Trade thing was suggested by Clinton, if I remember correctly.
13:38<jess^>i _want_ to freelance again
13:38<path>california is 1.8
13:38<randallman>Heh Leichtenstein is the #1 in per captia :)
13:38<randallman>the US is actually #10 wow
13:38<quanin>jkwood: free trade, yes.
13:38<randallman>the EU is 38 as of 2k8
13:38<quanin>but bush wanted to take it about 10 steps farther if i'm remembering right.
13:38-!-dvdm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:39-!-Desph [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:39<quanin>that's why he was so big on his push to try and synch his policies with that of the other two countries. not that it ended up working all that well, but...
13:39<randallman>A deeper look is amazing... how bush ran my country into the ground... Solely based on the fact that he convinced the american people based on Morality...
13:40<randallman>Seriously, if there were ever a president I wish had been J.F.K'd... it was him :)
13:40<randallman>and I voted for his ass the first time :)
13:40-!-spkitty [] has joined #linode
13:40<quanin>randallman: we're all entitled to one blunder.
13:41<randallman>I was brainwashed by the previous perception that the repub's were fiscally conservative :)
13:41<Guspaz|m>Ironically, the same is true in Canada.
13:41<aquillar>heh Harper = Bush II
13:41<Guspaz|m>The Liberal party ran a balanced budget for years. Then the Conservatives get into power and racked up a big deficit.
13:41<randallman>What, they use morallity to push a de-regulated capitalistic mentality behind the scenes?
13:41<quanin>Guspaz|m: i'm not so sure about that.
13:42<jess^>i am glad obama is president, tbh
13:42<jkwood>Politicians are not to be trusted. Film at eleven.
13:42<Guspaz|m>Not talking about morality, talking about fiscal conservatism. It seems that the more conservative the party, the less fiscally conservative they are.
13:42<quanin>Guspaz|m: the liberal party ran a balanced budget by beating the royal crap out of unemployment insurance.
13:42<randallman>They had our country so damned worried about gay marriage and abortion and christian rights, the adgendas that matter went unchecked :)
13:43<Guspaz|m>quanin: And the conservatives tried to run a balanced budget by slashing GST. Real smart move.
13:43<Guspaz|m>randallman: Yeah, we don't really debate those things up here. Gay marriage was legalized and narry a whimper.
13:43-!-stan_still_theman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:43<quanin>Guspaz|m: might have been successful if the liberals, NDP and blocke didn't threaten an election every 2 weeks.
13:43<Guspaz|m>Keeps them on their toes.
13:44<JshWright> (I wonder if the acrostic was intentional...)
13:45<quanin>they tried to produce a balanced budget in january, and the opposition parties pretty much demanded they throw money at a recession. so that 6 months later they could cry because they threw money at a recession.
13:45<Guspaz|m>Of course, I have a very poor opinion of the Bloc to begin with. In my eyes, they're a useless party that only serves to distract from important issues.
13:45<Guspaz|m>quanin: Did they throw more money at the recession than they lost from the 2% GST cut?
13:45<randallman>Guspaz, Im not really sure why the average american is such a homophobe...
13:45<randallman>It makes no sense...
13:46<Guspaz|m>randallman: Americans like being polarized it seems.
13:46<randallman>Moreover, why is the average american so damned concerned about what other people do and how it offends thier sensibilities
13:46<quanin>Guspaz|m: yes.
13:46<randallman>Do we just like conflict? :P
13:46<randallman>we're a country born of conflict, with immigration born of conflict
13:46<Guspaz|m>Abortion has been legal for as long as I can remember, with very little debate, gay marriage was legalized via the courts without much complaint, religion isn't really a big issue...
13:47<v0lksman>don't forget gun laws here... :) we use them to hunt
13:47<straterra>oh god
13:47<Guspaz|m>randallman: And Canada isn't a country born of conflict? We were a French colony until we were *conquered*.
13:47<randallman>Guspaz, ok.
13:47<randallman>Im not not sure where our attitudes come from :)
13:47<randallman>and where all of this uber-right morality stems
13:47<quanin>Guspaz|m: actually, we were conquered twice, but eh.
13:47-!-stan_still_theman [] has joined #linode
13:48<Guspaz|m>quanin: Oh? You mean the French conquering the natives?
13:48*quanin nods.
13:48<Guspaz|m>Having no native heritage, I can't claim a "we" on that one, though.
13:49<quanin>i'm using the royal "we".
13:49<randallman>I'd like to understand better
13:49<randallman>I mean canada has plenty of back country 'rednecks'
13:49<randallman>or the equivillent thereof
13:49<randallman>rural denizens
13:49<Guspaz|m>randallman: Indeed.
13:49<quanin>randallman: yes, but they don't often wade into politics.
13:49<randallman>But they dont seem to have the same mentallity as our rural denizens
13:49<Guspaz|m>Canadians are more laid back, more willing to go with the flow, more... polite? :P
13:50<quanin>and according to some, less extreme.
13:50<Pryon>randallman: The US was settled by religious zealots considered too crazy even for the most ardent COE reformers of their dy
13:50<jkwood>Canadians tend to remain individualistic.
13:50<randallman>Pyron, so all of that zealotism is genetic? :P
13:50<randallman>or at least partially so?
13:50<jkwood>We Americans let the media spin things in such a wawy that it DOES seem like our way of life is threatened.
13:50<Guspaz|m>jkwood: Explains the lack of debate on gay marriage then. The opinion would be "I'm me, what do I care what they do?" if they're more individualistic.
13:50<Pryon>I dunno about genetics. Maybe it's like the cosmic microwave background
13:51<quanin>randallman: you're trained, more or less.
13:51<jkwood>Right. And we tend to have some meddlers that actually ARE trying to take our rights away to give others more.
13:51<randallman>Well, "I'm" not
13:51<quanin>well, no.
13:51<randallman>I've got what I'd like to think are more evolved sensibilities
13:51<randallman>And my grandparents were rural farmers
13:51<randallman>and on the other side, factory workers
13:51<Guspaz|m>The Daily Show and the Colbert Report are enormously popular in Canada. Perhaps because we find American politics even more hilarious than Americans do.
13:52<Guspaz|m>In Quebec, the rural farmers are by far the most militant. They're the big separatists.
13:52<v0lksman>we also are happy to parody our own news (Rick Mercer, 22 minutes etc)
13:52<v0lksman>we start by making fun of ourselves. I think that helps...
13:53<quanin>yeah. someone makes fun of the prime minister up here, we're lible to either shrug it off, agree, or just laugh at the fool.
13:53<quanin>you do it in the right area in the US about the president, you wake up dead in the morning.
13:53<v0lksman>I seriously think the biggest problem (from a Canadian perspective) in the US is Fox News. That is just plain Canada I think they would force a disclaimer saying its not news, just opinion...:)
13:53<randallman>Ahh, that's an exaggeration
13:53<randallman>People dont kill people for making fun of the president
13:53<jess^>(except the KKK)
13:53<quanin>v0lksman: fox news wouldn't be allowed to run in canada.
13:53<randallman>Every nation has thier militants like that
13:54<quanin>at least not like it is today.
13:54<jess^>fox news is the right-wing news
13:54<Guspaz|m>I really wish that the government would just finish paying off the national debt. We burn so much money on interest payments.
13:54<jess^>..the far right
13:54<jkwood>Guns kill people for making fun of the president.
13:54<Guspaz|m>fox news isn't news.
13:54<Guspaz|m>They make most stuff up.
13:54<jkwood>Wait, wrong argument... sorry...
13:54<Peng_>Bullets kill people for being shot ou -- anyway
13:54<jess^>jkwood: GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE. BULLETS DO.
13:54<jkwood>Guspaz|m: Wwelcome to the American news media.
13:54<quanin>Guspaz|m: that's the problem. we *did* pay down the debt.
13:54<Guspaz|m>quanin: Not all the way.
13:54<jkwood>CNN, NBC, Fox... they're all problematic.
13:54<Guspaz|m>They only paid off 1/6 of it
13:55<quanin>Guspaz|m: no, but that's where a portion of the surplus went.
13:55<quanin>and the liberals still screamed about it.
13:55-!-mrplaydoh [mrplaydoh@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:55*Guspaz|m is a big proponent if paying down the debt because it pays for itself in saved interest.
13:55<jess^>i wonder if i should vlog.
13:55<ruotsalainen>Glenn Beck killed my uptime
13:55<jess^>glenn beck is a choad
13:55<ruotsalainen>oh wait, that was linode
13:56<Pryon>Guns don't kill people, physics kills people
13:56<quanin>it's all sarah palin's fault.
13:56-!-EricMartens [] has joined #linode
13:56<Guspaz|m>Glenn Beck is a pretty good comedian. I wonder why he's on Fox and not Comedy Central, though. I didn't think Fox News did comedy shows.
13:56<quanin>Guspaz|m: i thought fox news was an attempt at an answer to comedy central.
13:56<Guspaz|m>Makes sense.
13:57-!-stan_still_theman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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13:57<quanin>but yeah. according to that link i pasted, the gst cut only cost us 10 billion.
13:57<JshWright>I don't mind Glenn, since he would agree he's a comedian. Rush and Sean on the other hand...
13:57-!-mrplaydoh [] has joined #linode
13:57<Guspaz|m>quanin: Didn't help.
13:58<Guspaz|m>JshWright: But it's fun watching the Republican party tear itself apart!
13:58<jess^>random load average of .67.
13:58<quanin>Guspaz|m: we don't know if it actually would have. the second the balanced budget hit the floor everyone who wasn't a member of the conservative party was screaming for an election.
13:58<jkwood>2/3 is pretty random.
13:58<quanin>well, that is, except for everyone who wasn't in parliament at the time.
13:59<Guspaz|m>What did the opposition parties object to in the balanced budget?
13:59<JshWright> caker, stick this in the distro wizard when you get a chance, k?
13:59<quanin>there was no stimulous spending.
13:59-!-Bohemian [] has quit []
14:00<Guspaz|m>But... Mildest recession in history...
14:00<quanin>you see the problem.
14:00<Guspaz|m>Was it the mildest in history because of the stimulus spending, or in spite of it?
14:00-!-kelvinq [] has quit [Quit: kelvinq]
14:00<quanin>well, considering most of it has supposedly not been spent yet according to some economists and slightly more liberals, i'd be inclined to say in spite of.
14:01-!-Bohemian [] has joined #linode
14:01<Guspaz|m>It seems that despite assurances to the contrary, the US recession is getting worse. In Q3 they hade more foreclosures than ever before (almost a million that quarter alone, nearly one percent of all homes)
14:01<quanin>that's the US.
14:01-!-Bohemian [] has quit []
14:01<jkwood>There's other information that's missing, though.
14:02<Guspaz|m>Yeah, sucks for them though.
14:02<quanin>in canada our unemployment rate dropped for the first time in like a year.
14:02<quanin>as of september anyway.
14:02<Guspaz|m>If their recession deepends, our dollar will get stronger, and that's bad for Canadian businesses.
14:02-!-Bohemian [] has joined #linode
14:02<Guspaz|m>I know that the company I work for looses a bundle if the dollar gets stronger
14:02<jkwood>Let me tell you a little story: In the early parts of this decade, amateur radio licenses started dropping like flies in the US.
14:02<quanin>Guspaz|m: roughly translated: we need better trade deals with other countries.
14:03<jkwood>Yet today, many hams are more active than they've ever been, and we have more new licenses being issued than ever before.
14:03-!-Bohemian [] has left #linode []
14:03<Nivex>-.-. --.-
14:03<jkwood>So what happened with the drop off? It was the ten-year dropoff of people who got a license to communicate on the way home, pre-cellphones.
14:03-!-binel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04<jkwood>Late 90s, cell phones are everywhere, so people let their licenses lapse.
14:04-!-bithaze [] has quit [Quit: kthxbai]
14:04<Guspaz|m>So, people are abandoning their homes for apartments?
14:04<Guspaz|m>Being foreclosed on is a huge loss of equity that is extremely financially damaging.
14:05<Guspaz|m>It's not quite the same as letting an amateur radio license expire.
14:05<jkwood>How does this relate? Well, much of this reccession wsa caused by people who never should have been able to get credit towards a home in the first place, not having money to pay their bills.
14:05-!-bogdanbivi [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:05<jkwood>Sure, we've got a lot of foreclosures... but many of them are happening to people who, in the past, would not have been able to get a home under those terms.
14:05<linbot>New news from forums: CentOS 5.4 is on the road. in General Discussion <>
14:06<Guspaz|m>jkwood: Yeah, but... That's what caused the recession to begin with... And it's getting worse...
14:07<quanin>they're saying that's what caused the recession to begin with. but you can't tell me that's the primary cause of why people now no longer have jobs and therefore wouldn't be able to pay their mortgages anyway, even if they could have in the past.
14:07<jkwood>What I'm saying is that the mortgages taht are being foreclosed upon should never have been issued in the first place.
14:08<Guspaz|m>*shrug* I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of the laughably complicated US banking system. I'll stick with ours.
14:08<SelfishMan>!urmom foreclosed
14:08<linbot>SelfishMan: The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and urmom. (830:2/0) [mrmuo]
14:08<jkwood>People who were before financially able to maintain it aren't losing their homes to foreclosure.
14:08<quanin>jkwood: prove it.
14:08<Pryon>!urmom vote down 830
14:08<linbot>Pryon: Voted 830 down [moumr]
14:09<jkwood>Prove economics? Sure, okay.
14:09<linbot>jess^: Yo momma's so weird, she walked past a furry convention and they eyed HER suspiciously! (749:5/0) [mumro]
14:09<jkwood>You can disbelieve me if you wanat, I don't care. But the issue is never as simple as people want to make it.
14:10<jess^>!urmom vote up 749
14:10<linbot>jess^: Voted 749 up [urmom]
14:10<jkwood>!urmom vode up 749
14:10<linbot>jkwood: Yo momma's so paranoid, she wears tinfoil panties! (739:3/2) [mmoru]
14:10<jkwood>!urmom vote up 749
14:10<linbot>jkwood: Voted 749 up [romum]
14:10<jkwood>Stupid lag.
14:11-!-mwalling [] has joined #linode
14:11<mwalling>can i failover an ip from one account to another?
14:11<Guspaz|m>*shrug* I don't see any Canadian banks closing.
14:11<quanin>jkwood: so if i have relatively good credit, end up paying $1200/month for my mortage, and a year or so into it, end up losing my job, i shouldn't expect my house to be foreclosed on?
14:12<Yaakov>vuf: I don't believe in password changing enforcement.
14:12<Yaakov>vuf: I think it is false security and can actually have the effect of making things less secure because of how people behace.
14:12<jkwood>You should be cognizant enough of your financial siutuation to work around it.
14:13-!-ph^ [~ph^] has joined #linode
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14:13-!-CLAWGLIP [~yesso@] has joined #linode
14:13<vuf>Yaakov: that's what I wanted to hear :)
14:13<quanin>jkwood: explain.
14:14-!-BostonWealth [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:14<jkwood>"Gosh, the economy is in trouble. I should make provisions for cutting back some in case something should happen to my job."
14:15<jkwood>Do you know how many people aren't responsible enough to think that?
14:15<quanin>do you?
14:15<linbot>tarpman: Yo momma's so fat, she doesn't handle more than 2 gigs! (778:9/5) [umrom]
14:15<randallman>I'll admit it, americans are SUPER notorious for attempting to keep up with the jonses...
14:15<jkwood>Well, I haven't taken a survey, of course.
14:15<randallman>Because we live a gluttonous lifestyle.... It's all about the toys we have :)
14:15<aquillar>Americans spend money like it has an expiry date
14:16<randallman>But conversely, if we WERENT spending money
14:16<Clorith>Does she make SG:U more exciting? Yes she does.
14:16<randallman>other markets would be less likely to flouroush
14:17<randallman>As seen SPECIFICLY be the latest recession
14:17-!-shortcircuit [] has joined #linode
14:17<randallman>And that is the paradox
14:17<quanin>jkwood: the number is probably not as high as you're thinking it is. particularly when you take into account the first sign of a recession coming is usually going into work one morning and being handed a severence check.
14:17<randallman>we quit spending money, the world tanks :)
14:17<shortcircuit>ok, this is getting annoying.
14:17<CLAWGLIP>SelfishMan- are you around?
14:17<randallman>we spend money, the world tanks :)
14:17<shortcircuit>what just happened?
14:18<randallman>rather, the world hates us for being wasteful :)
14:18<randallman>it's a total lose-lose situation :)
14:18-!-mwalling [] has left #linode []
14:18<jkwood>CLAWGLIP: Your name is win.
14:18*CLAWGLIP chucks rocks at jkwood
14:19<shortcircuit>My slice didn't reboot, but rather seems like it was in a suspend state for something like twelve minutes.
14:19<jkwood>I'm going out on a limb here and saying that you know me.
14:19<shortcircuit>(or look at the ping timeouts for this account...irssi runs in the node.
14:20<CLAWGLIP>no, that's just how I greet everyone
14:20-!-iicsa [] has joined #linode
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14:20-!-adnc [] has joined #linode
14:20<shortcircuit>Any weirdness on the atlanta36 host today?
14:21<jkwood>In that case, we may as well be old friends, you fit in perfectly.
14:21<axod>anyone know how to disable negative caching in bind?
14:25<jkwood>"max-ncache-ttl options substatement"
14:25<jkwood>I know you can limit it, don't know if you can set it to zero.
14:25-!-Feoh [] has joined #linode
14:26<axod>ok thx. for some reason is sometimes being cached as empty reply
14:26-!-kyhwana [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:26<Feoh>Hallo all. Anybody else's linode having DNS issues? Mine's out of Newark.
14:26-!-kyhwana [] has joined #linode
14:26<axod>wonder if it's some cache poisining exploit :/
14:26<axod>I'm having some dns issues, not sure if they're related though
14:26<bliblok>Feoh: DNS works just fine on my newark node.
14:27-!-Smark[Gone] is now known as Smark
14:28-!-jotave [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009090216]]
14:29-!-Clorith [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:30<Feoh>Maybe it's the shlib problem mentioned in the channel topic? Though my node is listed as running.
14:30<Guspaz|m>I thought that was all resolved by now except for some isolated cases?
14:30<Feoh>Maybe I'll try a reboot.
14:31<Feoh>I dunno, I noticed my website is down as well as the other guy's I run off of my box, I lished into the linode and it can't resolve anything.
14:31<jess^>i don't know what the hell is wrong with my eyes
14:31<Feoh>Bad day for linode I guess :)
14:31<Guspaz|m>You could always try changing your DNS servers over to OpenDNS or the like, although that's not exactly an ideal solution.
14:31<jess^>but every time i see 'up' i parse it as 'dn'
14:32-!-Strifariz [] has joined #linode
14:32<jess^>opendns has been dropping 50% of my requests lately
14:32<quanin>i had the same resolution issue on one of my nodes.
14:32<quanin>reboot fixed it.
14:33<Feoh>Thanks quanin, reboot in progress.
14:33<tozz>Evening ppl, I read in the forums about Lassie being able to send out e-mails when a server is restarting but I must be blind cause I can't find that option anywhere
14:34-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:36<Feoh>That worked perfectly quanin, thanks.
14:36<Feoh>Have a good one all, I'm at work and sadly they don't pay me to run a linode :)
14:36-!-Feoh [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.6 (2005/02/09)]
14:38<jess^> of my coworkers came over and put a brand new bottle of melatonin in my hand and said 'you sound/look like you really need some sleep....'
14:38<Guspaz|m>Do you?
14:39<jess^>i dunno. i get 4-7h a night
14:39-!-litwol|mac [] has quit [Quit: "if you are not 100% unavailable for at least 2 hours a day, you probably aren't getting much done that's of any importance."]
14:40<Guspaz|m>So, yes :P
14:41-!-laser` [] has joined #linode
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14:42-!-laser` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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14:43<tmus>Hey guys - I'm interested in knowing how quickly the soon-to-be-released ubuntu 9.10 will be available as a linode install option and whether the UEC images can/will be beneficial?
14:45-!-crack_head [] has joined #linode
14:46<jess^>tmus: 9.10 is being looked at, i don't know when they'll have it ready
14:46<jess^>tmus: it's in testing, afaik.
14:46<crack_head>anyone know the status of backups?
14:46<crack_head>looks like the beta came out last april
14:46<Guspaz|m>They're still in beta.
14:47<crack_head>I'm trying to decide between linode and slicehost
14:48<vuf>crack_head: linode
14:48<crack_head>anyone have any experience with slicehost?
14:48<quanin>go linode.
14:48*quanin holds a gun to crack_head's... um... head.
14:48<tmus>jess^, okay, thanks :-)
14:48<crack_head>have y'all used slicehost?
14:49<quanin>that must be a new one.
14:49<tarpman>SpaceHobo: new is a relative term!
14:49<quanin>i mean the trigger. :OP
14:50-!-atambo [~atambo@ATAMB0.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #linode
14:51<Peng_>Nah, !slicehost isn't new.
14:51-!-tmus [~tmus@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:52*quanin kicks Peng_.
14:54-!-HedgeMage [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:54-!-fff [~anton@] has joined #linode
14:54-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
14:54<linbot>Yaakov: [twitter] @niw We experienced an issue with multiple hosts that required rapid emergency maintenance. Sorry about any inconvenience.
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14:56<Yaakov>Yes! And fortunately the Linode Incident Rapid Response Team (LIRRT) of Jed and irgeek were on the job: http://kovaya.jpg/p/lirrt.jpg
14:56-!-kyhwana [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:57<JshWright>and I'm pretty sure that's Stan in blue
14:58<jess^>Yaakov: linode emergency response team. LERT. as in be alert. :)
14:58<Guspaz|m>LOL, Garmin and TomTom's stocks tanked (well, down by 6-7 points) on the news that Google was introducing a free GPS app for the Android and possibly for the iPhone
14:58<Yaakov>.jpg is a new TLD.
14:58<Yaakov> is correct.
14:58<CLAWGLIP>I'd still rather a garmin, it plugs into the car and can be mounted in the car.
14:59-!-alex895 [] has joined #linode
15:00<Yaakov>JshWright: That's Stan?
15:00<JshWright>I thought so, but I could be mistaken
15:00<Guspaz|m>CLAWGLIP: Yeah, Google's also releasing car docks, so... It plugs into the car and can be mounted in the car.
15:01<JshWright>Jed is a little... erm... less svelte?
15:02<CLAWGLIP>That google, they thought of everything.
15:04<Peng_>Hwo does a phone...GPS?
15:04<JshWright>Peng_: in pretty much the same way babby is formed
15:05<JshWright>Peng_: you asking seriously?
15:05<Peng_>JshWright: Yes. Peng_ is dumb.
15:05-!-J-Node [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- Organize your IRC]
15:05<Peng_>Does it communicate with the GPS satellites? Use the cell signal?
15:05<JshWright>It depends on what "phase" you're talking about
15:06<Guspaz|m>peng_: Most smartphones have GPS support in the chipsets.
15:06<Peng_>....Can you use it as a stratum 0 source for an NTP server...? :D
15:06<Peng_>Guspaz|m: Oh, cool.
15:06<JshWright>it's either with a GPS chip, or based on the cell towers it's talking to
15:06<Guspaz|m>*most newer smartphones
15:06<Guspaz|m>JshWright: No, it's proper GPS.
15:06<Guspaz|m>AGPS even, frequently, which is more accurate than GPS alone.
15:06<Peng_>How much does that cost? Why do they have the feature?
15:06<JshWright>in the case of tower based location, that information isn't generally passed back to the handset, but only used for 911 locations, etc.
15:07<JshWright>Guspaz|m: erm... not always
15:07<Guspaz|m>Virtually all cellphones support the J2ME location API, and don't necessarily have GPS support. Most dumbphones don't. But many smartphones (yes, not all) do have proper GPS support.
15:07<Guspaz|m>Although I believe carriers often disable the location API, not sure. Mine didn't.
15:07<JshWright>I didn't see the "smartphone" qualification
15:08<Guspaz|m>peng_: It costs nothing, it's part of the phone. It's how Google Maps gets your location on the iPhone or Android phones.
15:08-!-alex895 [] has quit [Quit: alex895]
15:08-!-elfgoh [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:08<Peng_>Huh. Cool. :)
15:09<Guspaz|m>Why do they have it? A smartphone being location-aware is kind of important. For all the mapping stuff (a very frequently used application), or any other location-based service (where to eat? Where to get gas? Where to get a hotel? Where to register your high score in that game? Etc.)
15:09<JshWright>(Where did I just drive my car off a cliff?)
15:10<CLAWGLIP>(Where to turn my quest in?)
15:10<Peng_>As someone with a really old cell phone, I don't really think of that stuff.
15:11<Guspaz|m>Most cellphones use A-GPS which greatly accelerates GPS acquisition time and accuracy. Also provides a fallback if you lose the GPS signal.
15:11<Yaakov>Peng_: What year were you born?
15:11<jkwood>CLAWGLIP: (How I mine fish?)
15:11<Yaakov>How babby is formed?
15:11<Yaakov>How is babby formed?
15:11<Guspaz|m>how is mrbabbyman formed?
15:12<CLAWGLIP>if you hate homsar so much, why dont you kill him?
15:12<Guspaz|m>they should add a skorpian that hovars without flaping
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15:13<Guspaz|m>(Doubt anybody will get that one)
15:13<jkwood>This channel is currently full of win.
15:13<warewolf>how girl get pragnent
15:13<jkwood>girl dont get pragnent.
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15:15<jess^>i can order a linode, use it for a week to test something and then shitcan it when i'm done. this is bliss!
15:16<Guspaz|m>Yes. That costs a week.
15:17<@mikegrb>mmm cake
15:17<jforman>every time you cancel, there is less cake for the linode staff
15:17<@mikegrb>mmm cake
15:17<Guspaz|m>Surely caker ensures that all staff have sufficient quantities of cake.
15:17<jforman>i hope thats true, caker seems fairly reasonable so far
15:17<Guspaz|m>After all, he's abbreviated his name in a most tasty fashion.
15:18<jess^>but i have two linodes already
15:18<JshWright>jess^: you could even use the API to script the whole deal
15:18<Guspaz|m>Insufficient vespene gas.
15:18<jess^>vespene gas? is that what happens when you eat a pound of vito meat?
15:18<Guspaz|m>Clearly you're not a gamer.
15:18<CLAWGLIP>Yeah, gamers can handle their vito meat.
15:19<Guspaz|m>Indeed. Sad, really.
15:19<bss>you must construct additional pylons
15:19<Guspaz|m>You have not enough minerals.
15:20-!-dvdm [] has joined #linode
15:20<tarpman>spawn additional overlords.
15:21<jess^>vito meat is ok in small quantities
15:21<Peng_>Oh, Wikipedia says my phone is only from 2005/
15:21<Yaakov>When mikegrb eats vito meat he produces prodigious amounts of vespene gas.
15:21<Yaakov>And quite a few pylons.
15:22<Yaakov>Peng_: What year were you born?
15:22-!-GatorKram [] has joined #linode
15:22<Peng_>Wait, that's not the one. Never mind.
15:22<Peng_>Yaakov: 1991
15:22<Yaakov>I got my first cell phone in 1995.
15:22-!-AndrewLuecke [~kvirc@2002:7a6b:8d21:0:957f:7a2a:b8d4:a10a] has joined #linode
15:22<SelfishMan>CLAWGLIP: ?!?
15:23<Yaakov>caker: PING
15:23<CLAWGLIP>oh hi
15:23<jkwood>It fells so much more epic when it's all in caps.
15:23<CLAWGLIP>SelfishMan- Last week I was asking you about being unblocked by yahoo
15:23<Peng_>My Dad had one of those 1990s phones, with the antenna that sticks out and everything. One day someone stole it out of his car, leaving a knife behind. :\
15:23<Guspaz|m>1991.... I believe I was in grade 1 at the time.
15:24<GatorKram>lol @ grade 1
15:24<Yaakov>Peng_: I was a Senior Contributing Editor and Columnist for a newstand computer magazine in 1991.
15:24<Yaakov>Err... Guspaz|m
15:24<GatorKram>by 1991, Id already had my first job, my first pussy, my first cell phone, my first PC... lets see.... oh never mind, Im old
15:25<jkwood>I had a puppy.
15:25<Guspaz|m>Would it be a magazine that I've heard of?
15:25<CLAWGLIP>SelfishMan- Yahoo said "since you allow unknown users to sign up and use your e-mail addresses, we consider it a "shared ip", and we therefore won't whitelist it."
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15:26<SelfishMan>CLAWGLIP: That sucks
15:26<GatorKram>CLAWGLIP: I would reply, with something like, "right, you know, like GMAIL"
15:26<CLAWGLIP>SelfishMan- I think what I wanted wasn't "whitelisting", but just not to be outright blacklisted.
15:26<SelfishMan>CLAWGLIP: With Yahoo that is considered "whitelisting"
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15:27<CLAWGLIP>SelfishMan- Well, the exact wording of their reply is: The IP address of the mail server you indicated appears to be on a
15:27<CLAWGLIP>shared IP (for use by your various clients). As such, we are unable to
15:27<CLAWGLIP>systematically exempt emails from this server from our SpamGuard
15:27<CLAWGLIP>technology. As a result, some Yahoo! Mail recipients may receive
15:27<CLAWGLIP>mailings from this server in their Bulk Mail folder.
15:27<sblaydes_>Did you ask them if they block themselves then since they allow unknown users to sign up and use their email addresses?
15:27<CLAWGLIP>Unfortunately I have to wait until I get home to write a reply.
15:28<GatorKram>always? even if end users whitelist or whatever
15:28<GatorKram>contact list, etc
15:28<CLAWGLIP>GatorKram- end users can do that, but nobody will.
15:28<GatorKram>if they dont wanna dig in the spam folder, they should ;)
15:28<CLAWGLIP>Instead it'll just look like my service is faulty.
15:29<GatorKram>just explain the situation?
15:29<SelfishMan>CLAWGLIP: your only real hope now is to build a solid reputation with yahoo
15:29<CLAWGLIP>I can't attach an apology in advance to each of my users and ask them to tell their friends to look in their spam folders whenever they receive e-mails from them
15:30<CLAWGLIP>GatorKram- I've been explaining the situation to them over and over again all week in e-mails.
15:30<Yaakov>Sure you can.
15:30<GatorKram>smart end users, wouldnt think much of it, and just add their friends to their contact lists, and see the problem solved?
15:30<GatorKram>idiots are idiots, not much you can do, to help them anyway, ask for more money, hehe
15:30<Yaakov>CLAWGLIP: Actually, if you have a policy of confirming identities and aggressively deleteing abused accounts you might find them ammenable.
15:30-!-msamour [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:30<CLAWGLIP>GatorKram- they just e-mail me back asking more irrelevant or redundant questions, which show that they didn't carefully read what I wrote in the first place, they just glazed their eyes across it and said "spammer".
15:31<Guspaz|m>Freddie Mercury is the greatest vocalist of all time.
15:32<GatorKram>you could, use a different outbound smtp server, like gmails, for all outbound mails from your server
15:32<GatorKram>and for fun, use yahoo
15:32<Guspaz|m>That wouldn't work in a many-user environment.
15:32<CLAWGLIP>Even if they allowed relaying like that, it would break things for everyone else, because I have things like DKIM and SPF.
15:32<Guspaz|m>You can't just use gmail or yahoo as open relays.
15:33<GatorKram>if all his clients set HIM as their outbound server, yes he can
15:33<GatorKram>all he needs is an account with gmail/yahoo
15:33<GatorKram>very simple
15:33<CLAWGLIP>GatorKram- but recipients will see this Sender: header on all of their e-mails.
15:33<Guspaz|m>And you don't think Google will take exception with him sending thousands of mails per day from the same account?
15:33<GatorKram>Guspaz|m: no
15:34<GatorKram>CLAWGLIP: it seems to me, they arent smart enough to notice
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15:34<GatorKram>theyd have to go looking for it
15:34<CLAWGLIP>I consider that solution to be even less acceptable than telling users to tell their yahoo friends to look for their e-mails in the spam folder
15:34-!-daMaestro [] has joined #linode
15:34<GatorKram>you are just creating the problem yourself, and wont be happy with any work-around
15:34<GatorKram>good luck
15:35<CLAWGLIP>GatorKram- thunderbird shows the "sender" header by default even in short mode.
15:35<Guspaz|m>Google requires you to authorize every single mail address that you send mail for manually.
15:35<CLAWGLIP>Maybe other clients too, but I don't know about them because I only use thunderbird.
15:35<Guspaz|m>That'd be a pretty annoying process to him and his users.
15:36<GatorKram>Guspaz|m: all hed need to do, is setup his server, to send all outbound mail, via, say, google, and his server, would log into his gmail account, and send the mail, no idea what yer talking about
15:36<quanin>why not just have email destined for yahoo relayed through somewhere else?
15:36<quanin>won't have to touch *all* email, just any heading for
15:36<GatorKram>quanin: would be easier to just do ALL mail
15:36<CLAWGLIP>quanin- because where else? I have two IP addresses, one that I've had for 7 years, and they are both blocked.
15:37<GatorKram>how much mail do you move?
15:37<CLAWGLIP>I don't know how yahoo decides which IP addresses to block, but I find it unlikely that I can ever find an unblocked IP address.
15:37<GatorKram>and WHY do the end users, need to use YOUR server, to send mail? they really should be using their own isps outbound
15:37<SelfishMan>GatorKram: that breaks SPF and yahoo loves their SPF
15:38<adj>if you get dkim set up and verified through yahoo, your problems will go away
15:38<CLAWGLIP>adj- what?
15:38<quanin>if your ISP allows it, which is probably a long shot, you can always set it up so mail destined for yahoo goes through your ISP's outbound server first.
15:38<CLAWGLIP>adj- how do I get dkim "verified through yahoo"?
15:38<adj>once you're whitelisted you are typically fine as far as yahoo goes
15:38<SelfishMan>adj: no it won't. It will help but it won't stop yahoo from blocking
15:38<GatorKram>it seems to me, the real issue, is NOT your issue at all, but the block holder, of the IP in question
15:38<CLAWGLIP>adj- I have had DKIM set up for a long time, but yahoo doesn't care at all.
15:38<GatorKram>THEY should get yahoo to fix the problem, frankly
15:38-!-dvdm [] has left #linode [Leaving]
15:39<GatorKram>its not YOUR ip, after all
15:39<GatorKram>thats the way it SHOULD work
15:39<GatorKram>use propper channels
15:39<SelfishMan>CLAWGLIP: you may have some luck on the mailop or possibly spam-l lists finding someone at or with ties to yahoo that can do some gentle poking
15:40<GatorKram>escilate it to the ip block holder
15:40<GatorKram>its their issue really
15:40<GatorKram>their fault
15:40<GatorKram>their problem
15:40<GatorKram>who can disagree?
15:41<CLAWGLIP>Hmm, I didn't know about mailop. I should check that out.
15:41<adj>i havent really been following. if they blocked the whole ip block, then yeah, not much you can do
15:41<GatorKram>I seriously doubt, its a single ip
15:41<quanin>this is one of the reasons i've not yet gotten around to rolling my own email solution.
15:41<adj>but, check the spamhaus type lists first and clear your name there. then get DKIM and SPF right. then apply for whitelists with yahoo/aol/etc
15:41<quanin>well, that, plus i've not yet found one that doesn't make me want to break things.
15:42<CLAWGLIP>adj- done, done, done
15:42<adj>its a pain in the ass, frankly. but if you *are* actually legit and get approved then you are usually golden
15:42<GatorKram>email, much like dns, can be a real major pain, hehe
15:42<CLAWGLIP>adj- yahoo is the ONLY one blocking me, out of like 40 DNSBLs that I checked, only one small one that I never heard of was blocking me.
15:42<Peng_>CLAWGLIP: Which one?
15:43-!-TheJoe is now known as TheJoe|ZzZz
15:43<CLAWGLIP>hmm, I don't remember. let me see if I can find that site again.
15:43<Guspaz|m>SORBS? :P
15:43<Peng_>I was just curious; you don't need to go to any effort to find out.
15:43<quanin>anyone got an idea the easiest/most secure email setup to use/set up? think i might poke around with something just to say i can.
15:43<Guspaz|m>quanin: Google Apps ;)
15:44<Guspaz|m>That name implies that their RBL is itself spam.
15:44<quanin>Guspaz|m: ... no.
15:44<Guspaz|m>Why not, it's very easy to set up ;)
15:44<Guspaz|m>(I use Exim)
15:44<quanin>right. but if something goes splork, i wanna know why.
15:45<quanin>google apps doesn't let me do that.
15:45-!-fred__ [] has left #linode []
15:45<GatorKram>sendmail? qmail? hehe oh, you said easy... lol there is NO easy
15:45<CLAWGLIP>I use exim
15:45<GatorKram>ive not done email in a million years
15:45<Guspaz|m>If something goes splork with Google Apps, then Google engineers try to figure out what went wrong. If something goes splork wit hExim, *I* have to figure out what went wrong.
15:45<CLAWGLIP>But I had to read the 600 page manual before feeling confident about configuring it
15:46<rainman_>why can't we just fix this problem with all these mail whitelists and blacklists
15:47<rainman_>and bigger organisations keeping obscure requirements and dropping mail randomly
15:47<GatorKram>its not like it really stops spammers anyway
15:47<CLAWGLIP>GatorKram- no, but I do think it reduces the amount a lot.
15:47<adj>postfix/dovecot is pretty good
15:47-!-TheJoe|ZzZz is now known as TheJoe
15:47<quanin>oh yeah?
15:47<Guspaz|m>I'm happy enough with Google's spam filtering. I'm lazy, I'd rather just leave it to them.
15:48<adj>and relatively easy. but MTA's are huge comlicated beasts
15:48<GatorKram>the funny thing is, the traffic itself, is still out there, clogging up the pipes, it might not hit your inbox, but..
15:48<CLAWGLIP>In my inbox I get like 3 spams a day, with just DNSBLs. At one point around 10 years ago, before they had gotten good, I used to get like 100+ per day, it was at least like a couple of minutes every day devoted to deleting them.
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15:48<rainman_>Guspaz|m, but the person trying to send mail to you from their linode is not happy
15:49<Guspaz|m>I believe that I currently get ~200 spams per day. I'd estimate that I get less than one per day in my inbox on average.
15:49<GatorKram>I get TONS of spam in my google spam folder every day, hehe
15:49<CLAWGLIP>This "guilty until proven innocent" policy of yahoos just makes it impossible for any new e-mail services to start up, though.
15:49<Guspaz|m>rainman_: I knew that Yahoo was notorious for their mail policies, I wasn't aware that Google had major issues with it too.
15:49<CLAWGLIP>But at least they go to the spam folder.
15:49<GatorKram>CLAWGLIP: why would yahoo want you doing what they do? hehe
15:50<CLAWGLIP>I can send e-mails to gmail no problem.
15:50<rainman_>Guspaz|m, actually, i'm not being fair: i haven't heard complaints about google
15:50<GatorKram>google rules
15:50<rainman_>however, google is still tricky if you get an IP with a bad reputation, as in: previously a spam source
15:50<quanin>any comments on courier? or would you recommend that one be avoided?
15:50<Guspaz|m>That's true of most any host or RBL though
15:50<rainman_>hotmail, and yahoo a bit less, are simply blackholes
15:51<rainman_>quanin, i've ran courier for years, and am still happy
15:51<CLAWGLIP>quanin- there is a weird thing about courier that all custom folders have to be under INBOX.
15:51<Guspaz|m>Google seems to be more quasi-bayesian
15:51<CLAWGLIP>quanin- If that's not a problem, it's OK.
15:51<jess^>courier is ok :D
15:51-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
15:51<quanin>how easy would that be to set up with postfix and mysql? i'm not looking for much. just your basic postfix/spamassassin combo.
15:52<quanin>maybe if i feel adventurous later, mailman.
15:52<Guspaz|m>Be warned: SpamAssassin is a huge memory hog.
15:52*quanin nods.
15:53<ang>that's an understatement
15:53<quanin>but i'm hoping not to have to rely on it much. dnsbl's and the like.
15:53<Guspaz|m>Doesn't matter if you're relying on it, there mere fact that it's running is the issue.
15:53<rainman_>maybe someone should offer a decent service that does spamtrapping and queing for you
15:53<rainman_>or, spamtagging
15:53-!-agnor [] has joined #linode
15:53<quanin>any suggestions, though?
15:53-!-greg [] has joined #linode
15:54<rainman_>so, no worries about spamassasin memory, and included nice relays in case you break your linode
15:54<CLAWGLIP>quanin- courier is very easy to set up with mysql.
15:54<CLAWGLIP>quanin- As for connecting it to postfix, just make sure postfix writes your e-mails to a maildir.
15:54*quanin nods.
15:54*rainman_ ponders whether anyone would care for such a service
15:55<Yaakov>rainman_: It has confidentiality issues.
15:55<Guspaz|m>urmom has confidentiality issues.
15:55<CLAWGLIP>yeah, I wouldn't want someone reading my e-mails to see what's spam
15:55<jess^>Yaakov: so does any mail server.
15:55<rainman_>Yaakov, none more than with linode itself, or linode's transit providers
15:55<linbot>jkwood: Yo momma's so fat, when she turns around, people give her a welcome back party! (808:0/0) [murmo]
15:55<jkwood>!urmom vote up 808
15:55<linbot>jkwood: Voted 808 up [ommur]
15:55<rainman_>CLAWGLIP, it would be automated software, obviously
15:55<CLAWGLIP>jess^- anyone CAN read your e-mail, but they don't make it policy to sit there reading each and every one.
15:56<Yaakov>rainman_: That's not true, you have to actually read every email, not just possible read it.
15:56<CLAWGLIP>rainman_- oh. Well, in that case, I think there already is stuff like that.
15:56<rainman_>Yaakov, no, i'm just referring to hosted spamassasin, basically
15:56<adj>its called ironport
15:56<adj>or barracuda
15:56<Yaakov>rainman_: It really doesn't matter how you read it. You are parsing the contents of every email.
15:56<CLAWGLIP>rainman_; these guys do it:
15:56<jkwood>Man I hate Barracuda.
15:56<CLAWGLIP>rainman_: you actually send them the e-mails, they send them back minus the spam.
15:57<rainman_>CLAWGLIP, ah, interesting
15:57<CLAWGLIP>rainman_: Or you use their smtp servers.
15:57<quanin>i've got half a mind to just install postfixadmin or something. just set the mysql format up according to that and go from there.
15:57<rainman_>Yaakov, yes, but loads of people seem to be fine with google not only parsing the e-mail, but showing them ads based on it :)
15:57<Guspaz|m>It makes it cheap as free.
15:57<Yaakov>rainman_: Yes, they do seem to be. However think of your target market.
15:58<quanin>rainman_: you just summarised why i won't use google apps etc.
15:58<rainman_>Yaakov, true
15:58<rainman_>quanin, heh, same here
15:58-!-adnc [] has joined #linode
15:58<Yaakov>rainman_: On-site appliances are much more pleasant for the lawyers.
15:58<quanin>that's why i consider, off and on, rolling my own.
15:58<rainman_>well, a remotely managed on-site appliance...
15:58<Guspaz|m>quanin: Paid google apps doesn't have that issue, so it's not really an issue.
15:58<Yaakov>rainman_: That could work, with a proper partitioning.
15:58<Guspaz|m>Unless you're using the free version.
15:58<jess^>i have google apps premier
15:58<Yaakov>I don't trust Google, full stop.
15:59<jess^>Yaakov: go back to your bunker
15:59<rainman_>what do you use for search?
15:59<quanin>Guspaz|m: and if i were setting it up for a business, i'd pay for it. if it could be guaranteed that wouldn't change in the future.
15:59<quanin>but considering google indexes my emails so they can be searched...
15:59<Guspaz|m>I trust Google more that I trust most other people. I trust Google more than I trust myself.
15:59<Coderjoe|work>Yaakov: agreed.
15:59<Coderjoe|work>I don't trust google to actually delete stuff when you tell it to delete them.
16:00<rainman_>is there anyone that you do trust in this?
16:00<vuf>yourself, on a linode
16:00<Coderjoe|work>I certainly trust myself.
16:00<jess^>Yaakov only trusts messages sent by carrier pidgeon written in cypher.
16:00<rainman_>how do you know linode doesn't keep copies?
16:00<Coderjoe|work>and stuff I directly have control over
16:00<Guspaz|m>Google has access to my data. Linode has access to my data. Is there something that inherantly makes one more trustworthy than the other?
16:00<vuf>rainman_: I don't know, but I trust it
16:01<Yaakov>It isn't a matter of what they actually do today, it is what they could do given the infrastructure they've built. Everything they say is "good for the customer" (and it is) is also good for the bad guy wanting to do bad things. So, that isomorphic mapping raises a red flag for me, and makes the risk/benefit analysis look too risky.
16:01<GatorKram>your local hardware could be doing shit, so you have to trust that, to trust yourself, and anything else, hehe
16:01<jess^>the only difference between google and linode is that google is a member of the Corpolitcal.
16:01<Coderjoe|work>linode doesn't really have to resources to keep everything forever
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16:01<Yaakov>I simply don't think the amount of power concentrated in Google is a good thing in the long run.
16:01<rainman_>perhaps linode is forced to intercept email and send off copies
16:01<rainman_>and forced to keep quiet about it
16:01<quanin>Guspaz|m: linode doesn't mine your data for the purposes of advertising among other things.
16:01<Guspaz|m>Yaakov: The same could be said of Apple or Microsoft.
16:01<Yaakov>Google SAYS what they do.
16:02<rainman_>Yaakov, what do you use for search?
16:02<jess^>i think google is a good thuing
16:02<GatorKram>bing! lol
16:02<GatorKram>man those commercials are annoying
16:02<Yaakov>rainman_: I use Google, usually.
16:02<quanin>jess^: oh, i love google for some things. i'll even use it for my unimportant emails from time to time. because i don't really give a crap about them.
16:02<jkwood>Yaakov doesn't need to search the internet. The internet saearches him.
16:02<Yaakov>rainman_: And I use Google Webmaster Tools.
16:03<Yaakov>But I don't use Google Analytics.
16:03<theblackbox>hey all, trying to set up postfix and getting some odd issues that I'm just stumped to work out: I want a virtual domains setup so that the single instance of pf will mediate mail for each vhost, and I'm geting well into the docs that will help me set this up.... but I can't figure out what the hell my domain/hostname should be.... know it's a really simple thing, but it's got me stumbling at the first hurdle and need someone to point me in the right d
16:03<quanin>but if i'm managing email for not just me, i don't want google telling me what i can and can't do with it.
16:03<jess^>i think that googlevoice and googlewave added into google apps will make it AMAZING.
16:03<Yaakov>And I don't keep Google's cookies, and I rarely search logged in.
16:03<rainman_>i think google wave is useless
16:03<jess^>i think it will eventually replace e-mail
16:03<vuf>theblackbox: your hostname should be whatever the reverse DNS says for the IP
16:04<rainman_>jess^, never
16:04<Guspaz|m>A closed proprietary system has zero chance of replacing email.
16:04-!-spkitty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<rainman_>i'm not so sure e-mail will be replaced in my lifetime
16:04<brian>it's too difficult to replace e-mail
16:04<quanin>they thought twitter would replace email. how're they doing with that?
16:04<theblackbox>vuf, right so the linode my machine is registered as? (
16:04<quanin>same with facebook.
16:04<brian>e-mail is not replaced the same reason why they don't improve the HTTP protocol
16:04<jess^>e-mail is old and is no longer being used in ways it was originally intended.
16:04<quanin>jess^: according to?
16:05<jess^>quanin: the RFC. ever read the RFC for e-mail? :)
16:05<rainman_>ipv4 has a tiny chance of disappearing before me, i think
16:05<rainman_>very tiny
16:05<quanin>jess^: and that was updated... how long ago?
16:05<jess^>ipv4 is supposed to die on jan 1, i heard
16:05<brian>it was already supposed to die before that
16:05<Yaakov>Google is handling a huge percentage of mail, they do analytics, they do voice, they do apps and with data minig and the will to do it, they could have a search engine where they could type in a name and get back an AMAZINGLY detailed profile of that person. Now, I don't care about myself at this point, I am unintersting, but what about future political opposition, or nascent movements which SOMEONE might want suprresed.
16:05<jess^>exactly, quanin.
16:05<vuf>theblackbox: yes, though I would change that name to something like
16:06-!-nard [] has quit [Quit: nard]
16:06<rainman_>Yaakov, getting back an amazing amount of detail could be illegal
16:06<Yaakov>It troubles me that such power can exist and the BENEFIT is much less than that risk, in my estimation.
16:06<Yaakov>rainman_: So?
16:06<GatorKram>we all better get our tinfoil hats on, this is getting serious
16:06<rainman_>Yaakov, i doubt google is immune to the law
16:06<Yaakov>rainman_: When a government appears that doesn't care about the legalities, and has access to it, the law is not on the side of good.
16:06<theblackbox>vuf, but this is what confuses me.... $mydomain will be dependent on the vhost will it not
16:07<rainman_>oh, in a different government
16:07-!-spkitty [] has joined #linode
16:07<jess^>theblackbox: say your box's hostname is
16:07<rainman_>yes, then we're just fucked
16:07<jess^>theblackbox: your reverse should be
16:07<Yaakov>It is the building of the capability I care about.
16:07<vuf>theblackbox: no, you can only have one hostname
16:07<CLAWGLIP>The price of freedom is eternal accusing people of wearing tinfoil hats
16:07<jess^>theblackbox: as long as your postfix hostname matches the PTR record, you will be ok
16:07<jkwood>With enough money, the entirety of Google could be taken over, by those with less scruples.
16:07<quanin>jess^: exactly what? you're saying because the standard that defined email hasn't been updated in probably at least a decade, it should be replaced? how about just updating the standard?
16:07<Coderjoe|work>like things like NSLs or warrantless wiretaps were actually legal. (CONSTITUTIONALLY legal)
16:08<jess^>quanin: how about DESIGNING A SYSTEM THAT WORKS? email wasn't meant to handle the huge attachments that people send these days
16:08<Guspaz|m>jkwood: You seem to not be aware of Google's market cap.
16:08<GatorKram>people have been saying, IRC is dead, and look at us, hehehe
16:08<Yaakov>It is the fact that Google is very secretive about it, and CONTROLS it. The same technological ideas, DESIGNED for abuse prevention, would be different. Everything so far is isomorophically identical to the bad guy's needs.
16:08-!-zack_ [] has quit [Quit: zack_]
16:08<Guspaz|m>jkwood: 171 billion, if you're wondering. Not many companies have enough cash lying around to buy a controlling share in Google.
16:08-!-rogi [] has joined #linode
16:09-!-AndrewLuecke [~kvirc@2002:7a6b:8d21:0:957f:7a2a:b8d4:a10a] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:09<Yaakov>SMTP is crap. I would MUCH prefer a pull model for email.
16:09<quanin>jess^: that's not email's problem. that's a problem only for people who want to send attachments measuring in the hundred MB range.
16:09<Yaakov>This push stuff is nonsense and has outlived its usefullness.
16:10<JshWright>That's what she said
16:10<jkwood>Guspaz|m: I find that the older I get, the higher the cap for "impossible" goes.
16:11<Yaakov>Hello, JshW.
16:11<Guspaz|m>Random fun fact: Apple has enough cash on hand to buy Sony in its' entirety.
16:11<rainman_>Yaakov, where would you pull from?
16:11<Yaakov>rainman_: Other peoples servers.
16:11<rainman_>Yaakov, all 10 million?
16:12<Yaakov>rainman_: No. If I don't know you I don't need to recieve email from you. Sorry.
16:12<quanin>Yaakov: how would you know those other servers have email for you?
16:12<rainman_>congratulations, you've just made e-mail delivery take 115 days
16:12<jess^>Yaakov: how would you meet new people?
16:12<Yaakov>quanin: Something like RSS.
16:12<rainman_>Yaakov, and who hosts the RSS?
16:12<Yaakov>jess^: YOu meet people by randomly recieving email rom them?
16:12<quanin>you have to *find* that rss.
16:12<rainman_>Yaakov, also, still, i'd need to pull from 10 million servers
16:12<SelfishMan>!urmom feature
16:12<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's got so much feature creep, she supports regexps, themes, and Twitter. (772:2/0) [ummor]
16:12<Yaakov>rainman_: The person's mailserver.
16:12<Yaakov>rainman_: Why?
16:13<Guspaz|m>Errm, Sony's US interests anyhow.
16:13<Yaakov>rainman_: I don't have 10 million correspondents.
16:13<rainman_>Yaakov, if we limit this to the servers i actually communicate with, my employer would have to communicate with at least 20.000 servers
16:13<jess^>Yaakov: i give my e-mail address to someone i've never met before. they send me an e-mail right then. how does your pull model know to get the mail it has for you?
16:13<Yaakov>rainman_: Businesses would need a modified strategy.
16:13<rainman_>if you check every server every second, that means 5 hours to get a new mail
16:13<rainman_>not to mention that we'd effectively receive a DDoS from all the other servers
16:14<Peng_>Huh, my Linode hasn't been as fast as usual since getting rebooted.
16:14<Peng_>Probably rsync.
16:14<rainman_>a pull model in this scale requires a way to distribute - not have the entire world run all their pulls at the same time
16:14<Yaakov>jess^: If you need to recieve email from someone, they would EXCHANGE addresses with you. You would add them to your list, they would send the email.
16:14<SelfishMan>Peng_: same kernel?
16:14<Guspaz|m>Wait, no, Apple has enough liquid cash on hand to buy Sony globally.
16:14<rainman_>Yaakov, so, who hosts the RSS?
16:14<Yaakov>rainman_: It's not that hard to work out.
16:14<Guspaz|m>If Apple wanted to break into the gaming market, they can afford to simply buy Sony.
16:14-!-GatorKram [] has quit []
16:14<Yaakov>rainman_: It is on the servers that provide the mail delivery.
16:15<rainman_>Yaakov, how do i know you want to contact me?
16:15<rainman_>wait, you push a message to my server, that i can start pulling from you?
16:16<Peng_>SelfishMan: No. Upgraded ->
16:16<jess^>Yaakov: i think your idea for pull e-mail is completely and totally asinine.
16:16<Peng_>Sorry, should've said so.
16:16<rainman_>Yaakov, and how does this actually fix any problem we have with mail today? mail is very fast if you don't do greylisting
16:16<SelfishMan>Yaakov: your concept applies to a limited view of email and doesn't scale well beyond personal email
16:16<Yaakov>rainman_: Because you know me, or you don't get to send me mail. There's always the telephone, or paper mail. I have no need to have random people emailing my personal email account. If I don't know you, or haven't been introduced to you, I don't need to hear from you.
16:16<Yaakov>SelfishMan: We are TALKING about personal email.
16:16<rainman_>Yaakov, personal mail is rare
16:16<Peng_>I'm more bothered by random people calling me than random people emailing me.
16:16<CLAWGLIP>And more importantly, you don't need to change the entire e-mail and concept to achieve this, you just need to put filters on your client.
16:16<rainman_>most of my personal mail is business mail on the other side
16:17<jess^>peng_: ++
16:17<quanin>Peng_: +1
16:17<Yaakov>rainman_: Yes, that's why Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail and countless others have no users.
16:17<jkwood>Tat's because you can't give random people's phone numbers to telemarketers easily.
16:17<SelfishMan>Yaakov: Well, you are talking about personal mail but others seem to be talking about their employers
16:17<jess^>Yaakov: give me your phone number and let me call you every night asking if you want to add 2" to your penis. you'll tire of that quick.
16:17<rainman_>Yaakov, i'm considering you a troll that doesn't read well, so i'm going to do my dishes :>
16:17<SelfishMan>I agree that makes sense for personal mail (to a point)
16:17<jess^>rainman_: ++
16:18<quanin>SelfishMan: i don't.
16:18<jkwood>jess^: You mean people don't appreciate that? Oh dear...
16:18<jess^>yaakov is cutting into my naptime. sleep. bbl.
16:18-!-jess^ is now known as jess^[nap]
16:18<JshWright>well, I guess they told you Yaa
16:18*SelfishMan slaps jess^[nap]
16:18<SelfishMan>quanin: good for you
16:18<straterra>jess^[nap]: no offense..but we don't care enough for you to change your nick
16:18<straterra>Set an /away
16:18<jess^[nap]>SelfishMan: i hve a taser
16:19<SelfishMan>jess^[nap]: That's fine. I like it rough.
16:19<Yaakov>jess^: You are very rude and not very deep. Your arguments consist of objections followed by insults not reactions to the answers. You probably don't need to talk to me anymore. After all, I am an ass who lives in a bunker. So, let's just not talk anymore, OK?
16:19<JshWright>jess^[nap]: don't aim for his chest
16:19<jess^[nap]>okay, wait a second
16:19<jess^[nap]>i never called you an ass :)
16:19<Peng_>jess^[nap]: You take naps?
16:19<Yaakov>jess^[nap]: Go away, seriously.
16:20<Yaakov>jess^[nap]: You went three strikes, I don't need you and you don't need me.
16:20<jess^[nap]>Peng_: yeah. :/
16:20<Yaakov>jess^[nap]: So, bye.
16:20<jess^[nap]>Yaakov: bye! :)
16:21<quanin>Yaakov: your proposed pull model would overcomplicate things just for the sake of probably very few actual personal emails.
16:21<Yaakov>quanin: It isn't mine. You can research current implmentations, if you'd like.
16:22<quanin>well, you're suggesting that should replace smtp.
16:22<Guspaz|m>We should replace SMTP with telnet.
16:22<Coderjoe|work>SMTP is a heck of a lot more efficient than your proposed solution
16:23<quanin>if i have mail for you, i'll tell you. don't keep asking or i'll just block you.
16:23<Yaakov>quanin: I am, for most email that most people care about.
16:23<Yaakov>quanin: SMTP is only a concern for interoperatibility, and it needn't be. There could be two different things, there doesn't have to be s single solution.
16:24<Yaakov>Overgeneralization is a big problem.
16:25<quanin>i don't see how those two different things could be compatible. unless you'd be using some sort of push notification to tell one server another has email for you. and if that's the case, why not just push the email?
16:25<@jed>agnor: you there, bud?
16:25<agnor>jed: yessir
16:26<@jed>agnor: you're probably wondering about all the e-mails
16:26-!-jess^[nap] is now known as jess^
16:26<CLAWGLIP>SMTP _is_ push.
16:26<agnor>yessir :)
16:26<agnor>I figured they just got pushed to everyone instead of just me
16:26<@caker>my bad, please ignore those agnor :)
16:26<Coderjoe|work>SMTP has worked quite well for over 20 years. why change it to some convoluted waste of bandwidth?
16:26<@jed>agnor: disregard, our Generate a Ticket system assigned them all to you :)
16:26<jkwood>Caker meant to assign them to me.
16:26<quanin>CLAWGLIP: i know it is.
16:26<Yaakov>caker: Sleep is the cure.
16:27<quanin>CLAWGLIP: but that's what i'm saying. since you'll have to notify a server of a new email anyway, probably by some kind of push mechanism, so the server can then pull the email down, why not just push the email?
16:27<Yaakov>Coderjoe|work: If you ignore that the lion's share of bandwidth on the net is spam, yes, it's worked well.
16:27<memenode>eh my current download connection speed on my linode is slower than my home download speed
16:27<erikh>Coderjoe|work: one might suggest it's already a convoluted waste of bandwidth
16:27<agnor>jed: whenever you get around to fixing mine, wanted to mention that the inittab you linked me to last night didn't work... irgeek had to grab one that was fedora-compatible. Not sure where s/he got it from
16:27<Yaakov>Coderjoe|work: Otherwise, a sane look says it is way broken.
16:28<Coderjoe|work>the lion's share of bandwidth on the internet is peer to peer traffic
16:28<erikh>Coderjoe|work: apples and oranges
16:28<memenode>at home 500-600kb/s, on linode, 420kb/s max..
16:28<@jed>agnor: ah, cool, good to know
16:28<Coderjoe|work>peer to peer file transfer traffic
16:28<quanin>Yaakov: spammers will just find a way to convolute your pull system.
16:28<CLAWGLIP>quanin- I don't understand. Are you mixing up SMTP with POP/IMAP (which are unrelated)?
16:29<Coderjoe|work>indeed. what quanin said
16:29<Yaakov>quanin: That's just an assertion.
16:29-!-`Tim [] has joined #linode
16:29<quanin>CLAWGLIP: no. i'm responding to Yaakov's claim that we should replace smtp with a method similar to pop/imap.
16:29<Yaakov>quanin: Spammers exist because they can, not because they must.
16:29<erikh>i'm not sure how a pull model would work
16:29<erikh>with smtp.
16:30<Yaakov>erikh: Google knows about pull email.
16:30-!-WoodWork [] has joined #linode
16:30<CLAWGLIP>quanin- oh, I get it. I wasn't following the whole conversation.
16:30<WoodWork>Hey, does anyone know an average memory usage for "screen + irssi" on 64bit?
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16:31<quanin>Yaakov: and because they can, they'll find a way to take advantage of your pull model. unless you're planning on just not allowing your server to pull from hotmail, yahoo etc. which pretty well excludes any and all contact with anyone who either can't or won't use their ISP provided email (believe it or not, those people exist).
16:31-!-spkitty [] has joined #linode
16:31<Yaakov>quanin: Pulling involves ME ASKING for mail for ME from YOU.
16:32<CLAWGLIP>Using ISP provided e-mail is a horrible idea.
16:32<jkwood>Have you ever gotten unsolicited mail that actually improved yout life?
16:32<quanin>from which server? i send from several?
16:32<Yaakov>quanin: Not "hello do you have any mail addressed to me?" "Do you have mail from X for me?"
16:32<CLAWGLIP>Unless you're sure you're going to stay with that ISP for the rest of your life.
16:32<Coderjoe|work>and you aren't thinking about anything beyond just you. your idea does not scale to millions of users.
16:32-!-greg [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:33<Yaakov>Aggregation is up to you. I just put an address in my email client and let it do the rest. If you want to deliver from various places, your authenticated mail feed has to tall my server to pick it up.
16:33-!-Adam- [] has joined #linode
16:33<Coderjoe|work>CLAWGLIP: indeed. my father recently bought a domain to host email accounts for some family members exactly because of that.
16:33<Peng_>Um. It can't be good to have 1 NTP request per second from somebody's port 7, can it?
16:33<Yaakov>Coderjoe|work: No, you are wrong. You don't understand what I am proposing, it scales as well as any service. IM for example.
16:34<quanin>Yaakov: you still haven't told me where this authenticated feed is coming from.
16:34<jkwood>Peng_: Perhaps they're paranoid about what time it is.
16:34<Yaakov>quanin: I told you REPEATEDLY.
16:34<Yaakov>Let's stop. I am just WRONG. You win.
16:34<WoodWork>Does anyone know an average memory usage for "screen + irssi" on 64bit Linode?
16:35<Adam->Hi, yesterday during the downtime I resized my hard drive from 12gb to 16gb, but because of all of the problems, it never worked. The dashboard shows me using all 16gb, but my server shows only using 12. Anything you can do to fix it?
16:35<Coderjoe|work>4 minutes
16:35<Peng_>WoodWork: I have no numbers, but it won't be very significant. It's only like 10 or 20 MB on 32-bit.
16:35<WoodWork>Thanks Peng.
16:35<jkwood>WoodWork: Only screen and irssi? Not much, I'm sure.
16:35<Peng_>WoodWork: But that depends on how much you have open in screen, your irssi plugins...
16:35<WoodWork>No plugins.. just Irssi.
16:35<WoodWork>To make a placeholder.
16:35<jkwood>Are you logging?
16:36<jkwood>How many channels open?
16:36<WoodWork>Say 3 at max.
16:36<Peng_>WoodWork: It'll be really insignificant.
16:36<quanin>it's amazing the topics that can come up from a simple question about email server suggestions.
16:36<WoodWork>Thanks guys/gals. ;D
16:37-!-Irl [] has joined #linode
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16:38<Peng_>But using the ECHO port... could be trying to create an infinite loop, no?
16:38<Guspaz|m>The slicehost/linode comparison compares memory usage on 32/64 bit (since Slicehost doesn't support 32-bit):
16:38<SelfishMan>slicehost *does* support 32 bit now I'm told
16:38<Guspaz|m>Apparently I must be registered.
16:39-!-ph^ [~ph^] has joined #linode
16:39-!-ph^ [~ph^] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:39<Peng_>Guspaz|m: Yeah. It's not hard to do, though. /msg linbot help register.
16:39<quanin>has anyone here ever actually used postfixadmin? anything you'd recommend that'd be a better fit?
16:39<JshWright>josh 3846 0.0 2.3 51056 8424 pts/2 Ss+ Oct26 0:45 irssi
16:39<JshWright>josh 3835 0.0 1.0 27508 3784 ? Ss Oct26 0:07 /usr/bin/SCREEN.real -c /home/josh/.screenrc
16:40<JshWright>screen and irssi on a 360 (64bit Ubuntu) (don't ask...)
16:40<CLAWGLIP>quanin- I don't know what you're trying to do, but consider using It's like $60/year or something, and they do a really good job of hosting e-mail at your own domains, assuming it's just for you and your friends.
16:40<CLAWGLIP>You'll be glad you saved the time/headache of setting it up.
16:41<CLAWGLIP>The only reason I'm doing my own is that I want to resell addresses. For the last few years I've been using for my own needs.
16:42<CLAWGLIP>Before that, I tried setting up qmail, courier, squirrelmail, and all that on my linode, to save a few bucks, and the extra time and effort was definitely not worth it.
16:42<CLAWGLIP>oh yeah, and spamassassin.
16:43<CLAWGLIP>and clamav.
16:43-!-axod [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
16:43<quanin>well, part of it's for me, but i was also looking at possibly using it as backup mx for somewhere else.
16:43<CLAWGLIP>And vmailpop or whatever it was called (but that was because of qmail sucking, nothing to do with e-mail in general).
16:44<CLAWGLIP>quanin- fastmail already provides backups, if you want to switch everything to them.
16:44<quanin>vpopmail. i've used that... that's why i'm considering postfix.
16:44<CLAWGLIP>They provide like 50 virtual hosts, so you can pretty much do everything with one account.
16:45<quanin>how much actual controll do they give you, though?
16:46<CLAWGLIP>Well, you can log into your accounts with IMAP. You can set your accounts to forward to another address. You can even use their DNS servers and set up your own custom DNS using their interface.
16:46<agnor>jed: how's it looking for getting the inittab/fastab machines back up?
16:46<CLAWGLIP>They also have a proprietary (I guess) webmail.
16:47-!-Adam- [] has quit []
16:47<CLAWGLIP>They let you do catchalls for all e-mails sent to your domain.
16:47<@jed>agnor: one at a time with three employees on it, we'll get there
16:47<CLAWGLIP>They support sieve filters (I think--better check for sure if you need those)
16:47<@jed>agnor: very soon, I promise :)
16:47<@jed>it's all at the mercy of fsck and how long it takes
16:48<agnor>gotcha. Just checking that it was being worked on still. I stopped getting email updates ;)
16:48-!-kyhwana_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:49<chesty>what the theory on why inittab and fstab were corrupted?
16:49<rainman_>CLAWGLIP, resell addresses? what do people pay for?
16:50<Guspaz|m><random>CodeWeavers are pretty awesome guys.</random>
16:51<quanin>do they let you decide things like, for example, where email is actually allowed to go? for example: IP addresses end up on some blacklist or another. my ISP will let me send mail through it from elsewhere, with proper authentication. if i get told email going to x@y.z is being blocked by dnsbl or something similar, will let me relay email destined for them through my ISP?
16:51<agnor>Guspazlm: you saw that give-away they did a while back, right?
16:55<Guspaz|m>agnor: I took advantage of it, and then purchased the heavily discounted extension.
16:55<Guspaz|m>When they announced today's giveaway and sale, I complained that I had already purchased the extension and wasn't eligible.
16:55<Guspaz|m>They offered me a free one year extension.
16:56<Guspaz|m>Feeling generous, I counter-offered $25 for it (the same as they charge for an extra year on the extension)
16:57<Guspaz|m>I wasn't looking for a handout.
16:57<CLAWGLIP>rainman_: ad-free webmail, POP and IMAP access, and an e-mail address that doesn't need 4 numbers in it to finally get one that isn't taken.
16:57<Guspaz|m>I generally don't need numbers; my nick is unique enough.
16:58<CLAWGLIP>I don't expect to, or need to, get a lot of customers.
16:58<chesty>why not just use google apps?
16:58<rainman_>CLAWGLIP, interesting
16:58<Guspaz|m>LOL, we've already covered that.
16:58<rainman_>CLAWGLIP, why would they trust you in continuity? that's important for mail addresses
16:59<CLAWGLIP>rainman_: what do you mean? To not close up shop and leave them without their e-mail address?
16:59<rainman_>CLAWGLIP, exactly
16:59<CLAWGLIP>rainman_: I guess at first I will just have to hope that people don't think of that.
16:59<CLAWGLIP>Or at least that some people don't think of that.
17:01<CLAWGLIP>I can't possibly prove that I won't.
17:01<chesty>you'd still have your address, you'd just lose all your mail if you stored it on the server
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17:01<agnor>Okay, time to make the treck home. Should be back by 6PM EST
17:01<Peng_>agnor: EDT?
17:02<agnor>trek, rather
17:02<quanin> bills on a per-account basis. if i'm reading their documentation right, that'd be $180 for 3 email accounts. um... no.
17:02<agnor>Peng_: is that before or after DST? can never remember
17:02<CLAWGLIP>quanin- you probably don't need 3 separate accounts to do what you want.
17:02<jess^>yawn even
17:02<jess^>morning :D
17:02<CLAWGLIP>quanin- you can create a lot of addresses on different hosts with one account, assuming you get Enhanced.
17:02<CLAWGLIP>s/on different hosts/in different domains/
17:03<agnor>I should have said "eastern" :)
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17:03<quanin>except i'd have to effectively hand DNS controll over to fastmail to do it.
17:03<linbot>JoeK: Dallas360 - 42, Dallas540 - 21, Dallas720 - 23, Dallas1080 - 18, Dallas1440 - 13, Dallas2880 - 3, Dallas5760 - 1, Dallas8640 - 1, Dallas11520 - 1, Dallas14400 - 1
17:04<CLAWGLIP>quanin- only if you don't have your own DNS server. If you do, you can point MX to their smtp server.
17:04-!-Turl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:04<CLAWGLIP>To their two smtp servers, that is.
17:05-!-johndbritton [] has quit [Quit: johndbritton]
17:07<quanin>it doesn't look like it allows me to fail things over as i'd like to, though, in the event it's actually needed.
17:07<CLAWGLIP>Probably not.
17:07<CLAWGLIP>The idea is that you'd use them for all or nothing.
17:07<Guspaz|m>Heh, CodeWeavers countered with (paraphrasing) "We can't offer you the $25, but you can use the MALLARD code to get it for $17.50.
17:08-!-ambackstrom [] has joined #linode
17:08<CLAWGLIP>ie. for whatever it is you are doing a backup server for.
17:09<quanin>right. but if, i said earlier, fastmail's servers made it onto a dnsbl or something, i'd like the option of relaying emails i send through them destined for whoever's bouncing me based on dnsbl results through another server. it doesn't look like i'd get that option.
17:11<CLAWGLIP>I guess not.
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17:11<quanin>so, let's say i'm having to email linode for something. for whatever reason, linode's decided that == spammer. my choices would either be to wait until that changes and hope it changes before too long, or mail from another address and hope linode recognises it's me.
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17:12<linbot>BarkerJr: Availability (360): Atlanta - 34; Dallas - 42; Fremont - 1; Newark - 33; (0.93506) urmom says hi
17:13<CLAWGLIP>I guess so, but is a fairly large provider, in reality I think you will have a lot less problems with dnsbls and stuff compared to hosting your own server.
17:14<CLAWGLIP>For example, if you try to send mail from your linode, it will go into yahoo's spam folder, as I've discovered.
17:14<BarkerJr>that's only your first few emails, though, right?
17:15<CLAWGLIP>BarkerJr- I've sent probably a total of 10 tests over the past month.
17:15<CLAWGLIP>BarkerJr- I don't know how many e-mails I'm supposed to send before it changes, if at all.
17:15<BarkerJr>I've found with gmail, anyway, after a few days of clicking Not Spam, it catches on
17:16<CLAWGLIP>BarkerJr- sure, for that one recipient, but does it make a difference for other gmail recipients?
17:16<CLAWGLIP>BarkerJr- I can send to gmail and hotmail without a problem.
17:16<CLAWGLIP>In any case, having a home-grown solution, you have to go through all this. A company like fastmail has it all sorted out a long time ago.
17:17<quanin>and a lot of times even they still end up on a blacklist or 3.
17:17<CLAWGLIP>Well, it's your choice, if you have the time to spend setting up your own smtp server, then go for it :)
17:17<BarkerJr>I assume that gmail spam filtering is somewhat global
17:18<BarkerJr>and the blacklists is just cause someone on yout class-c is running tor
17:18<CLAWGLIP>Personally I'd e-mail fastmail and ask them if they support the failover feature you want. And look for other providers too, before taking the commitment of trying to run your own smtp server.
17:19<BarkerJr>I gave up on smtp, cause it's a total pain
17:19<BarkerJr>I just use gmail
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17:20<erikh>which uses ...
17:21<CLAWGLIP>he means he gave up on running his own smt[p
17:21<erikh>i've googled, and I still have no clue how pull email would work, well, pretty much outside of any private subnet
17:22<erikh>unless we're talking about fidonet
17:22<erikh>which had it's own unique set of problems
17:22<CLAWGLIP>BarkerJr- hmm, so maybe if I just go ahead, eventually when yahoo users click "not spam" my e-mails won't be shuffled to spam by default anymore?
17:22-!-amiel_ [] has joined #linode
17:22<erikh>(like power-tripping hub operators)
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17:23<quanin>CLAWGLIP: well, that's how hotmail works anyway. you send enough emails to them, and eventually it determines for itself that you're legitimate.
17:23<vuf>i never got any fidonet spam
17:23<CLAWGLIP>I guess I hope yahoo does that.
17:23<CLAWGLIP>Anyway, time to go home. Bye-ee!
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17:24<erikh>vuf: neither did I, but I did get pulled from one network by a hub that didn't approve of networks I was pulling from other places
17:24<quanin>okay. so so far, for self-hosted email recommendations i've got... fastmail. lol
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17:25<vuf>erikh: actually, i barely got any fidonet mail at all, it mostly got lost in transit
17:26<erikh>well, I assume it probably used a slightly different transport than we use these days
17:26<erikh>you know, like when I did yard work for a summer to pay my long distance bills
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17:28<Guspaz|m>Yikes, I hope that wasn't recently, erikh. There have been affordable alternatives for long distance for quite some time.
17:28<erikh>Guspaz|m: it depends. do you consider "recently" to be 1995? :P
17:29<Guspaz|m>Yes, in the way that such alternatives did exist then.
17:29<erikh>ah, as?
17:29<saikat>is there any reason the current linode problems could result in my server now giving a 502?
17:29<Guspaz|m>Dialarounds, calling cards, alternate long distance providers, etc.
17:29<saikat>it seems like either my server should be down or not, right?
17:30<Guspaz|m>The same options as exist today (minus VoIP) existed then.
17:30-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@] has joined #linode
17:31<erikh>i'm glad that "hindsight is always 20/20" applies to a 14 year old telephone bill as well.
17:31<Guspaz|m>Doesn't it to everything? ;)
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17:32<Guspaz|m>Back then (well, a bit later in the 90s) I was using dialarounds with a 14.4k US Robotics "Mac&Fax" modem.
17:32<Guspaz|m>To dial up to BBS.
17:32<Peng_>caker: Anything become of the new Xen stack that was being tested back in August?
17:32<Guspaz|m>Since I had no internet access until years later.
17:32*Peng_ goes away!
17:33<Guspaz|m>I bout the 14.4k modem used at a time where 56K modems (and possibly even the starting of broadband) was available. It came with no power brick, and my attempts to get a Radio Shack one working with it failed. I called up US Robotics, and they sent me one for free (!!!).
17:33<Guspaz|m>Considering I bought the 14.4K modem at a flea market, I was highly impressed with USR.
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18:09<erikh>it's a speedboat
18:09<BarkerJr>that's why you shouldn't be on your cell phone when driving
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18:11<straterra>I drive and talk on my cell phone
18:11<straterra>I've been in one wreck in my life too
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18:12<erikh>ah, you must be the asshole that drives 20 in a 45 while on your cell phone
18:12<straterra>I never drive the speed limit
18:12<erikh>driving 20 in a 45 isn't driving the speed limit
18:12<straterra>That's why I had a court date for reckless driving..speeding on a seemingly empty country road
18:13<straterra>I know my car tops out at 140 from personal experience
18:13<Peng_>straterra: Could you warn me if you plan to drive through central Florida? ;D
18:13<straterra>I'm not a woman..I can multitask
18:13<agnor> I second the central FL warning :)
18:13<erikh>I think you have that backwards
18:13<erikh>men single-task better, women multi-task better.
18:13<Peng_>agnor: You're a Floridian?
18:13<straterra>Peng_: No need. Everyone else will be driving 20mph under the speed limit..I'll never make it to you
18:14-!-bss [] has quit [Quit: brb]
18:14<straterra>MY woman can't multitask for shit
18:14<straterra>I can
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18:14<erikh>Peng_: case studies++!
18:14<agnor>Peng_: Living in Gainesville, yup
18:14<straterra>She also doesn't get the finer points of driving fast like I do
18:14<agnor>born in California, though ;)
18:15<Peng_>#linode seems to have a lot of Floridians, but it's probably not disproportionate.
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18:15<straterra>I'm a long way away from Florida
18:16<straterra>The home of the 'damn near every mod is legal' state
18:16<straterra>INDIANA rather
18:16<vuf>hasn't it been a long time since we had a language war in here?
18:17<straterra>Peng_: warn ME before you come to Indiana..I'll come find you and take you for a ride
18:17<jess^>Peng_: you're in florida?
18:17<Peng_>jess^: AFAIK.
18:17<vuf>i rather like perl
18:18<jess^>lol, in orlando?
18:18<straterra>I'll borrow the stepbrothers 700 rwhp cobra...and show you how speeding is done
18:18<Peng_>straterra: D:
18:18<Peng_>jess^: More or less.
18:18<jess^>Peng_: i'm in coral springs.
18:18<Peng_>See, now, I _should_ know where that is, but I don't.
18:18<agnor>I've heard the name before :P
18:18<jess^>four hours south of you, more or less.
18:18<straterra>One of the most amazing things is doing 120 on a dark interstate with a convertible on a clear summer night
18:18<jforman>go NNW of fort lauderdale, fl...thats where coral springs is
18:18<jess^>next Peng_ will tell me they're a furry, heh
18:18<straterra>jess^: I've done furry porn before
18:18<erikh>jess^: I thought everyone knew that
18:18<agnor>Ahh, way down there
18:18<Peng_>jess^: Well, I do need a haircut...
18:19<straterra>I'm quite famous in here for that
18:19<jess^>straterra: o rly? what did you do?
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18:19<straterra>one sec and ill show you
18:20*JoeK headesks
18:20<Peng_>Ah. I've only been as far south as Coral Springs once or twice.
18:20<Peng_>Don't you get hit by hurricanes a lot?
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18:20<@mikegrb>mmm cake
18:20<straterra>thats really me
18:20<jess^>Peng_: we haven't had one this year.
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18:21<erikh>it's el nino this year, isn't it?
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18:21<jess^>it's just interesting finding a non-geek floridian that isn't a furry, that's all. florida's kind of big on that
18:21-!-arooni-mobile [] has quit []
18:21<BarkerJr>but it's not that cold in florida
18:21<Peng_>jess^: ...I didn't know that.
18:21<jess^>Peng_: ya.
18:21<agnor>I didn't know that, either.
18:22<Peng_>I don't think I know any furries from Florida. OTOH, it's not like I ask...
18:22<BarkerJr>dont ask dont tell
18:22<jess^>i'm currently researching a connection between blue PT Cruiser ownership and homosexuality, also.
18:22<jess^>_everyone_ i know in florida who owns a blue PT cruiser *also* likes the cock. and this seems to be more than coincidence.
18:23<Peng_>I'll keep a lookout.
18:23<jess^>so remember
18:23<jess^>if a man in a blue pt cruiser asks if you wnt to see a box of puppies he has in the backseat
18:23<straterra>Everyone who owns a blue pt cruiser ANYWHERE...
18:24<BarkerJr>what about people who don't have a car?
18:24<Peng_>BarkerJr: Maybe look for posters of one?
18:24<straterra>Thats like saying "People who drive pruises are gay"
18:24<jess^>i <3 priori
18:24<straterra>not I
18:25<straterra>I told my gf (half jokingly) if she gets a Prius..we're gonna have issues
18:25<jess^>you're not entirely secure in your masculinity, are you? :P
18:25<jess^>i mean, it's just an electric car. :)
18:25<straterra>I am
18:25<straterra>I just hate those things
18:25<jess^>oh? why?
18:25<erikh>jess^: have you ever seen the south park episode, "smug alert"?
18:26<Guspaz|m>I'd drive a Prius if it were given to me. However, I'm not sure why somebody would give me a free car, nor do I have a license.
18:26<erikh>I think that about sums up my opinion on the prius.
18:26<straterra>erikh: agreed
18:26<jess^>erikh: i think south park is a waste of time. the only episode i've seen was the one where they portrayed the jewish god as the MCP from TRON.
18:26<laser`>VW BlueMotion cards give better MPG than the Prius
18:26<erikh>jess^: what are you going to do with your battery when your prius goes buhbye
18:26<erikh>my vw gets better gas mileage than it anyways
18:26<Guspaz|m>south park has some good stuff. The "internet is down" episode was good, as was the parody of heavy metal.
18:26<erikh>(and has an assload more power)
18:27<Guspaz|m>For heavy metal, they actually had to bring in a bunch of outside animators since the style was so different.
18:27<erikh>I just don't get to walk around saying "I own a prius. Do you?"
18:27<erikh>which I find ultimately unimportant.
18:27<Guspaz|m>Battery? Hybrid batteries have proven to have lifespans long enough to make such concerns irrelevant.
18:28<erikh>Guspaz|m: and when two prius's get in an accident?
18:28<straterra>Ok..Prius is supposed to be good for the environment..
18:28<Guspaz|m>I think the figures 10 years after hybrids reviewed were something like less than 1% of batteries needed replacing in the 10 years? I don't remember.
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18:28<straterra>What happens to the dead fuelcell?
18:28<Guspaz|m>straterra: Prius' don't use fuel cells.
18:28<erikh>Guspaz|m: ok, so you don't replace it
18:28<straterra>since when?
18:28<erikh>the prius dies, tranny shot or whatever
18:28<Guspaz|m>erikh: What about an accident?
18:28<erikh>what happens to the battery?
18:28<Guspaz|m>straterra: Since ever? Since no production car in the world uses a fuel cell?
18:29<erikh>straterra: they're batteries. Guspaz|m is right.
18:29<Guspaz|m>erikh: Presumably it's sent in for recycling? You'd have to ask Toyota.
18:29<erikh>yeah, see, prius owners don't really think about that.
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18:29<erikh>they just think "omg I've got a prius! I'm helping the environment^W^W^Wlooking cool!"
18:29<straterra>I see a lot of references to fuel cell in a Prius o.O
18:29<jess^>erikh: ++
18:29<straterra>erikh: I hear they can hit 35 downhill
18:30<Guspaz|m>straterra: Then you're imagining things...
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18:30<jess^>straterra: priori are fast. :)
18:30<straterra>Google must be too o.O
18:30<erikh>straterra: they have poor acceleration, but they are good cars otherwise
18:30<straterra>jess^: compared to a segway maybe
18:30<jess^>straterra: lol, don't hate just becuase you don't like them
18:30<erikh>honda has them beat IIRC with their hybrid in the accel dept
18:30<erikh>at least, that's just what I read.
18:30<straterra>The Ford Fusion isn't too bad..its about the only hybrid I'd ever drive
18:30<Guspaz|m>straterra: Fuel cells run on hydrogen... When is the last time you saw a hydrogen refueling station?
18:31<straterra>No..hydrogen fuel cells run on hydrogen
18:31<Guspaz|m>True, there are other sorts of fuel cells available.
18:31<straterra>That isn't the point though
18:31<Guspaz|m>None are actually used in cars.
18:31<laser`>Fusion is a hybrid?
18:31<straterra>The point is what happens to the parts when it gets recycled
18:31<laser`>Must be a different car to what we have here
18:32<laser`>Fusion in the UK is just a slightly taller Fiesta
18:32<jess^>water powered car. water is electrically broken down into hydrogen and oxygen. the hydrogen is used to create an explosion, the byproduct of which _IS WATER_
18:32<Yaakov>Toyota pays 200 bucks for a battery. They recycle them.
18:32<Guspaz|m>straterra: The Prius uses NiMH batteries, how is it different from when the millions of NiMH batteries used by consumers get recycled?
18:32<straterra>Guspaz|m: because people pay out the ass for them?
18:32<straterra>Have you seen how much a Prius costs? They aren't cheap. Dealerships gouge the prices too
18:33-!-spkitty [] has joined #linode
18:33<JoeK>any staff available?
18:33<Yaakov>Hello, spkitty.
18:33<JoeK>if you could um see my support ticket that would be great
18:33<straterra>There are people on WAITING LISTS for a Prius
18:33<Guspaz|m>So, you're saying that people won't recycle the batteries despite laws to the contrary (if there are such for NiMH), because they paid more for them? Huh?
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18:33<spkitty>hey Yaakov
18:33<Peng_>jess^: My Mom doesn't know anyone with a blue P.T. Cruiser.
18:33<straterra>Guspaz|m: No..I'm saying the average person won't know..or care to do it
18:33<straterra>The average person rarely recycles batteries
18:34<Guspaz|m>jess^: You get less energy out of burning the products of electrolysis than you put in. At that point, you might as well just use the power to drive the car rather than mess with water.
18:34<straterra>They just toss em in the trash..just like they'll toss the car in a junk yard
18:34<Yaakov>straterra: We have an aggressive battery recycling program.
18:34<straterra>We being..who?
18:34<straterra>Where I one cares.
18:34<Yaakov>straterra: But we are an engineering school.
18:34<straterra>Well..I'd say thats a bit different
18:35<Guspaz|m>straterra: 97% of all battery lead in the US is recycled. Why do you assume that the same can't be done for other types of batteries?
18:35<Guspaz|m>Clearly, consumers are obeying recycling laws to the extent that 97% of them get recycled.
18:35<straterra>I've never seen anyone recycle a battery
18:35<Eman>thats because shops give you $20 for a dead car battery
18:36<Guspaz|m>And yet 97% of lead acid batteries are recycled.
18:36<Guspaz|m>So, clearly, you'
18:36<Guspaz|m>you're not paying close enough attention ;)
18:36<straterra>Case in point..I replaced a laptop battery this week. I asked if we HAD recycling stations or w/e for batteries..I was told to just toss it in the dumpster
18:36<straterra>And Eman is dead on
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18:36<Yaakov>Lead recycling is a closed loop.
18:36<stan_theman>In the USA, 98% of all lead-acid batteries are recycled. In comparison, only one in six households in North America recycle batteries.
18:37<Yaakov>But Hybrid batteries will be recycled.
18:37<Guspaz|m>Clearly, when the proper programs are put in place, battery recycling works incredibly well.
18:38<Yaakov>Lead is mostly car batteries and dealers are required to get the cores when they are replaced, the consumer has to pay MORE if they don't provide a battery in trade.
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18:38<spkitty_>for the record:
18:38<spkitty_>"For example, it is reported that replacement battery prices for the Toyota “Plug in” Hybrid concept showcased this year at the TMS top out at a jaw dropping 650,000 yen. With a base cost of more than 3 million yen for the vehicle"
18:38<spkitty_>"The milliamps needed to feed the juice to the battery packs are reported to be capable of blacking out an entire street if a mere 5 of these cars were plugged in at the same time, not withstanding charge times up to an entire day."
18:38<spkitty_>infrastructure is the problem right now
18:39<Yaakov>spkitty_: I don't buy that last paragraph.
18:39<Yaakov>It defies physics.
18:39<spkitty_>from japanese
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18:41<Yaakov>The average home has 200A service. Lithium chemistry batteries are constant voltage, they start out at about .8c and the current drops from there, after an hour it is down to 25%.
18:41-!-spkitty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:41<donkey>quick question: After the "resize" option in the linode manager, my last step would be to manually resize my Disk Image with "image options" ?
18:41<Yaakov>The charging current for such a vehicle couldn't exceed 30A peak.
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18:41<Guspaz|m>Yaakov: You assume that the batteries are not charged individually.
18:42<Guspaz|m>Battery packs are not one single giant battery.
18:42<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: No, I don't assume that.
18:42<Yaakov>A *battery* is, by definition a collection of *cells*.
18:42<Guspaz|m>So then how do you derive your 30A figure?
18:42<Yaakov>The overall capacity of the battery.
18:43<Yaakov>Full dislosure: Electric car research is one of our areas.
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18:44<HoopyCat>i am calling bollocks on that paragraph, as well
18:44<Yaakov>30A at 120V or 220V volts is a BUTTLOAD of electrons.
18:44<Guspaz|m>Looks like the plug-in prius has about 35KWh of capacity.
18:44<Yaakov>Remember, the battery voltage is probably something like 72V or less.
18:44<Guspaz|m>(estimating here)
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18:45<SelfishMan>Yaakov: I'll give you a buck to lick the contacts
18:45<Yaakov>SelfishMan: You have odd fetishes.
18:45<Guspaz|m>In order to charge the car from near-dead in a reasonable amount of time (let's say 8 hours), you'd need to pump in 43A at 110V to charge it.
18:45<HoopyCat>consider that central air conditioning generally fails to cause local distribution problems
18:46<SelfishMan>Yaakov: I will not deny that
18:47<stan_theman>donkey: yes
18:47<SelfishMan>The average home has 200A service? Not in my part of the world. 60-100A MAX
18:47<Yaakov>SelfishMan: At what voltage?
18:47<laser`>Mine's something like 40/50 A
18:47<laser`>But our voltage is higher
18:48<HoopyCat>or 20A at 220V or so
18:48<laser`>Hmm, or maybe even 20 A
18:48<Guspaz|m>I'm having a great deal of difficulty finding the actual capacity of the Prius plug-in hybrid concept.
18:48<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: A clear design parameter will be not to exceed 30A in the US, and 15A in Europe.
18:48<SelfishMan>Yaakov: 100A at 220V is about where we sit
18:48<HoopyCat>Guspaz|m: the number is effectively worthless; at least on the non-plugin versions, the battery capacity is held within a relatively small range (probably 20%)
18:49<spkitty>remember we're talking japan here for my quote
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18:49<Guspaz|m>HoopyCat: The whole point of the plugin version is that you fully charge it.
18:49<brian>why is no one talking about linodes in ehre
18:49<SelfishMan>what happened to this channel?
18:49<Guspaz|m>Yaakov: That would lead to excessive charge times.
18:50<Peng_>When have we ever done that?
18:50<Guspaz|m>What's a "linode"?
18:50<HoopyCat>Guspaz|m: going over 90% or under 20% is not a great idea, so it will probably be avoided to preserve the battery's lifespan; even at that, odds are good you aren't going to be depleting it all the way down. charge it when you can, run the engine when you can't, it all balances out.
18:50<SelfishMan>brian: because nothing is broekn involving linode right now
18:50<jess^>sigh, Yaakov is upset at me
18:51<jess^>men get upset too easily.
18:51<brian>someone break something!
18:51<agnor>Selfishman: I beg to differ. Heh
18:51*brian throws things
18:51<SelfishMan>jess^: No, you just keep annoying men
18:51<HoopyCat>brian: same reason we don't only discuss beer at the pub :-)
18:51<Peng_>22:14:23 < Peng_> Generalizations++!
18:51<Guspaz|m>HoopyCat: OK, 90% then. Point is, a plug-in hybrid derives its advantage from the fact that you can (near) fully charge the battery, allowing you to drive a distance entirely on electrical power.
18:51<SelfishMan>agnor: Well, there are some extreme exceptions but there isn't really anything to talk about with it
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18:51<Guspaz|m>Personally, I really hope that eestor isn't full of shit...
18:52*jess^ supposes she can just idle here and read the conversations, instead of participating. :P
18:52*brian spills coca-cola on the linode server cabinet
18:52<HoopyCat>Guspaz|m: yup, i can agree with that. wait, what are we disagreeing about? :-)
18:53<Guspaz|m>I don't know.
18:53<SelfishMan>so, how about that whole (religion|politics) thing?
18:53<Guspaz|m>Random: Toyota claims 3 hour charge times at 100V for the car, which has double the range of the previous prius, giving a capacity of ~35KWh. This implies a charging amperage of roughly 100A.
18:53<Guspaz|m>So, Toyota disagrees with Yaakov.
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18:54<HoopyCat>i think it's fairly obvious that an electrician (or at least a working understanding of NFPA 70 and electrical theory/practice) is going to be involved in configuring a home for a plugin hybrid
18:54<Guspaz|m>And by "Toyota", I mean "Toyota press release"
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18:54<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: yep. I know tesla has a charging station that you can't install yourself
18:54<Guspaz|m>And by "Toyota press release" I mean "I need to leave to catch the bus home or I'll miss it."
18:55<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: Then that is not a "piug in" in the previous sense of the use. It is an electric that requires some special charging technology.
18:55<HoopyCat>some houses can take a 100A circuit... others not so much. so that 3-hour charging window requires an ideal house :-)
18:55<brian>hi HoopyCat
18:55<HoopyCat>i'd be happy with 8.
18:55<Guspaz|m>Yaakov: It's a Prius with doubled battery capacity and the ability to use a high-amperage charge circuit to charge it up and drive a short distance (20KM) in electric-only mode.
18:56<HoopyCat>hello, brian
18:56<Guspaz|m>Sounds like a plug-in to me.
18:56<Yaakov>HoopyCat: No... it requires 100A of dedicated power, the house would have to use 0A.
18:56<Guspaz|m>Perhaps they assume 200A houses then.
18:56<Guspaz|m>Or as you said, special charging equipment.
18:56<Yaakov>Guspaz|m: "plug-in" previously meant a car you could charge overnight in your garage from your outlet.
18:57<Guspaz|m>Anyhow, the bus grows ever nearer, and I must not be late.
18:57<Guspaz|m>I bid you adieu.
18:57*brian sabotages the bus
18:57<Yaakov>And the target was the 30A standard circuit and 8-hour charge.
18:57<HoopyCat>rarely is the question asked, is our car plugging into NEMA outlet?
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18:57<brian>about the plugins, if there is a power surge....
18:57<brian>could it fry the car? :o
18:58<HoopyCat>brian: of course. shit happens.
18:58<brian>none of my electric equipment has ever been fried
18:58<Yaakov>Lightning strike, maybe.
18:58<Yaakov>Anything less would be dealt with.
18:58<Yaakov>Except possibly:
18:59<BarkerJr>this is why people have insurance
18:59<HoopyCat>i suspect the engineers working on this are generally familiar with high voltages
18:59<HoopyCat>BarkerJr: which insurance covers it, though?
19:00<BarkerJr>property insurance generally excludes cars, boats, etc, right?
19:01<HoopyCat>i once had an accident involving a SUV that cut me off; it was somewhat awkward, as i was driving a shopping cart at the time. fortunately, the other party decided to just FOAD once i told store security that, sure, i'd be up for getting the police involved... i had nowhere to be, and frankly, i was curious as all hell
19:01<Yaakov>Wait, I found a video of a prototype being charged, maybe Guspaz is right!
19:01<@mikegrb>Yaakov: btw I got that guy up so your huge love is intact
19:02<Yaakov>mikegrb: I am relieved.
19:02<HoopyCat>BarkerJr: if your car is garaged and your house catches fire, what pays for the car?
19:03<BarkerJr>I work in insurance and I don't know :/
19:03<BarkerJr>I guess auto insurance?
19:04<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Did you see
19:04<HoopyCat>Yaakov: probably at some time or another
19:04<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Apparently, the high current charging test failed.
19:04<HoopyCat>Yaakov: florida, golf course, BLEVE?
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19:06<Yaakov>Now THAT could charge a battery pretty damned fast.
19:06<Yaakov>Well, maybe as supercap bank.
19:06<brian>what is kovaya
19:07<HoopyCat>yaakov backwards
19:07<HoopyCat>+/- 6 characters
19:07<HoopyCat>speaking of which, i need to write some shit
19:07-!-CLAWGLIP [] has joined #linode
19:08<CLAWGLIP>So yahoo told me that they weren't going to whitelist me.
19:08<CLAWGLIP>But I just sent another test e-mail, and it went to Inbox!!!
19:08<CLAWGLIP>No pun intended, but: yahoo!!
19:08<HoopyCat>didn't yahoo shut down a couple days ago?
19:08<Peng_>CLAWGLIP: They're just screwing with you.
19:08<HoopyCat>or geocities or something like that
19:08<Peng_>HoopyCat: Yes, GeoCities did.
19:08<CLAWGLIP>Peng_: Maybe!
19:09<brian>geocities was a virus infested sesspool
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19:09<Peng_>brian: Not 100%.
19:09-!-The-spiki [~spiki@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:09<brian>so are all the geocities sites gone?
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19:09<donkey>quick question: After the "resize" option in the linode manager, my last step would be to manually resize my Disk Image with "image options" ?
19:09<CLAWGLIP>Peng_: Maybe they fixed an error, but didn't want to admit that there was an error. Or maybe just their SpamGuard heuristics happened to adjust themselves after I sent enough e-mails. I made this test e-mail look more like a regular human e-mail, on the advice of someone here, I forget his name, maybe BarkerJr.
19:09<@jed>donkey: yes
19:09<Peng_>brian: Some/most/all of them have been archived elsewhere, but they are gone from Yahoo!.
19:10<Peng_>donkey: Well, after that presumably you'd boot, but yes. :P
19:10<CLAWGLIP>Ahhh, I'm so happy.
19:10<brian>who would of thought that google would consume the market
19:10<CLAWGLIP>I've been working since the beginning of June on this project (when I'm not at work) and I was really worried it would get ruined by yahoo.
19:11<donkey>so i should test out the boot, eh?
19:11<Peng_>donkey: Well, I was just assuming that you like to have your node on. :P
19:12<agnor>jed: you guys still chugging away at the fstab/inittab linodes?
19:12<Peng_>What are the fstab/inittab issues?
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19:14<@jed>agnor: got 4 employees on it now, so yes
19:14<@jed>agnor: we're coming
19:14<agnor>gotcha. Thank you.
19:14<@jed>we're all entirely at fsck's mercy here
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19:30<BarkerJr>what does "Latest 2.6 Paravirt" mean?
19:31<Peng_>BarkerJr: It's the latest newer-than-2.6.18 kernel, using paravirt_ops (aka pv_ops), a different way for Xen to interface with the kernel.
19:32<BarkerJr>but maybe I want the new kernel without pv_ops
19:32<Peng_>BarkerJr: Why?
19:33<BarkerJr>no idea
19:33<BarkerJr>I like the new kernel but am risk-adverse
19:33<Peng_>BarkerJr: pv_ops isn't any more of a risk.
19:34<Peng_>More than generally moving up 0.0.12 kernel versions.
19:34<Peng_>BarkerJr: The official Xen patches aren't available for kernels newer than 2.6.18. Some people port them forwards, but that has its own risks.
19:35<Peng_>(That is, the pre-pv_ops patches. pv_ops is in the vanilla kernel.)
19:35<Peng_>Uhh. I was just gonna say something else, but I forgot what.
19:35<BarkerJr>so, you're saying that if I choose "", then I still get pv_ops even though it doesn't say it? :)
19:36<Peng_>Oh, right.
19:36<Peng_>BarkerJr: Yeah. All of the >=2.6.19 kernels are pv_ops.
19:36<BarkerJr>and I've been running on pv_ops for months already without knowing it
19:36<Peng_>BarkerJr: OK then. :D
19:37<Peng_>BarkerJr: Using "Latest 2.6 Paravirt" just means you'll always have the newest pv_ops kernel, instead of having to edit your config profile every time a new kernel comes out.
19:37<Peng_>(s/kernel/kernel when you boot/)
19:37<BarkerJr>the down side of these "Latest" selections is that you can't easily tell when you're outdated
19:37<BarkerJr>cause you look in the manager and it says you're on the latest even if you haven't rebooted
19:38<Peng_>Hmm, that may be true.
19:38<BarkerJr>you'd need to uname-a then
19:38<BarkerJr>not super-convenient
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19:38<Peng_>Eh, it's convenient for *me*.
19:38<BarkerJr>course editing your profile and checking if it's in the deprecated section isn't much better
19:39<Peng_>BarkerJr: You have a good point, though. You should...what's the Linode equivalent of filing a bug?
19:39<Peng_>Oh, the forum, I gues.
19:39<BarkerJr>but here's the solution... what we need is an RSS feed
19:40<BarkerJr>a kernel rss feed
19:41<Peng_>There is a web page: A feed is a good idea, though.
19:41<BarkerJr>I shall request it :)
19:44<Peng_>SSH is alternating between "super-fast" and "stuck for 4 seconds" today. :\
19:45<Peng_>Honestly, right this second, I have to check that I'm really typing over SSH.
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19:46<Peng_>Heh, ping is a little slower than usual, though. :D
19:46<brian>Hi Peng_
19:47*brian tickles Peng_ with a feather
19:48*Peng_ giggles.
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19:57<Keith-BlindUser>Hi all. I am having an issue. I decided earlier on to intigrate the webcit web system for my citadel groupware server on Debian Lenny into the apache configuration. Well, that works fine if users do: http://DomainName/webcit/. Note the other slash. Well, the problem I am having is:
19:57<linbot>New news from forums: Kernel RSS Feed in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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19:58<Keith-BlindUser>Number one. How adding a /webcit/ works, I do not know as the webcit directory itself totally does not exist within my Apache system either on the default site or otherwise. 2. I decided to setup another virtual host, but if I try /webcit/ as a documentroot or anything else, apache says the stuff does not exist. Earlier, I tried the location of: /usr/share/citadel-webcit/static/login.html, but
19:58<JoeK>migrating is as slow as mollasses
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19:59<Jonno>Keith-BlindUser: sounds like it's been setup as an apache alias
19:59<Keith-BlindUser>When trying that location: DocumentRoot /usr/share/citadel-webcit/static/login.html or otherwise, Apache2 still spits out an error about the document root not existing and fails to start completely. It just dies.
19:59<agnor>Keith: one general sort of thing is to take a look into your apache config. If there was an install script, it might have added an alias of sorts
20:00<Keith-BlindUser>I've taken that site down until I can somehow make the ailious: go to: without having to spessify. Any other suggestions?
20:01<Keith-BlindUser>Although why apache cannot acess /usr/share/citadel-webcit/static/ is beyond me. That directory does exist on the Linode FileSystem.
20:01<Jonno>Keith-BlindUser: Apache allows aliases in the config e.g. /blah/ that goes to /var/not/in/web/root/folder
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20:02<Jonno>Keith-BlindUser: If you search apache config files for /webcit/ you should find the alias, if thats what is happening
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20:18<Jonno>Is anyone using DRDB on linodes?
20:18<linbot>New news from forums: Is Linode the right choice? in General Discussion <>
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20:31<emoboy>Anyone happen to know the cost of a ram upgrade? (I don't have a linode at the sec and I can't see the page cause It's usualy under the linodes settings... and I'm pricing up to see if I can afford one again)
20:32<linbot>Available Add-ons: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP: $ 1 per IP/month
20:32<emoboy>Oh cool
20:32*emoboy pets linbot
20:32<emoboy>Thanks bob2 C=
20:35<emoboy>The discount for advanced payment is that per month or the entire cost? *hopes per month*
20:36<jess^>you only get a discount if you pay for the whole year
20:36<agnor>Yeah, I think Jess is correct
20:36<Peng_>You get a better discount if you pay for 2 years.
20:36<BarkerJr>I'll trade you a 520 for a 360 in fremont
20:36<linbot>Peng_: Fremont360 - 0, Fremont540 - 11, Fremont720 - 3, Fremont1080 - 3, Fremont1440 - 2, Fremont2880 - 1, Fremont5760 - 1, Fremont8640 - 1, Fremont11520 - 1, Fremont14400 - 1
20:36<emoboy>Oh ignore me its the same... I aparently fail at math
20:37<Peng_>Ahh, this brings back memories of mid-2008.
20:37<emoboy>Peng_: Very true but it also dents the bank account more C=
20:37<BarkerJr>360 demand exceeds supply, so its value is way up
20:37<Keith-BlindUser>This is weird..
20:37<bob2>someone needs to start running openvz on their 720s, duh
20:37-!-CLAWGLIP [] has quit [Quit: Client excited]
20:38<HoopyCat>february porkbellies are, otoh, languishing
20:38<BarkerJr>I vought a 540 on monthly for now
20:38<Keith-BlindUser>Apparently the webcit interface uses it's own DNS server..there is a worker already listening to port 8504 where the webcit interface is. I checked for any trace of webcit or citadel or words like /etc/citadel/webcit.conf..but can't find anything. Maybe it's not in the main apache configuration.
20:39<Keith-BlindUser>As I mentioned: somehow adding a /webcit/ works just fine if I do: and append the /webcit/. All I am trying to do is ailious a domain like to go there. But somehow my attempts to alious a virtual host to go to /webcit/ appears not to work.
20:39<emoboy>373£ for a 540 for 2year... *ouch*
20:39<BarkerJr>tbh, though, this 540 is very nice
20:40<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: somewhere in /etc/apache2/, there is a config file that does this
20:40<BarkerJr>emoboy: do you trust linode to be in business 2 years after yesterday?
20:40<BarkerJr>j/k :)
20:40<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: grep for Include and webcit in /etc/apache2/
20:40<jkwood>BarkerJr: Come on now. That's even a bit harsh for the staunchest supporters.
20:40<emoboy>BarkerJr: Sure as they have a near perfect track record and I value them to be the best vps company around (Never tried slicehost so dont start that argument and there more expensive)
20:41<emoboy>Also seen as I have had many linodes in the past and the support is better than most dedicated server providors I've used C=
20:42<Keith-BlindUser>If I do: grep include webcit /etc/apache2/ I get: "Grep: webcit: no such file or directory."
20:42<jess^>BarkerJr: i expect linode will be around for a long time to come.
20:42<BarkerJr>I guess it's an investment
20:42<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: that's not how grep works
20:42<HoopyCat>we spend more in two weeks on a place to live than we do for a year's worth of linodes
20:42<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: grep -i webcit /etc/apache2/
20:42<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: grep -i include /etc/apache2/
20:42<BarkerJr>do you expect to be able to make 10% interest on that 373£?
20:42-!-taylor [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:42<emoboy>HoopyCat: Haha I spend more in alcohol in a month than a 720 would cost for a year xD
20:43<HoopyCat>perspective, people. remember... pledge today at the dollar-a-day level and receive this cute, cuddly intern
20:43<jess^>BarkerJr: i have been with _many_ vps companies. vpslink, spry, prohosters, eapps, and others. linode is the best linux vps host i've seen so far.
20:43<@mikegrb>mmm cake
20:43<jess^>BarkerJr: (also, for freebsd vpses, rootBSD takes the cake)
20:44<HoopyCat>emoboy: you must live in a place with socialist health care, or else you oughta be stashing away some phat stax for that new liver ;-)
20:44<Keith-BlindUser>grep -i include /etc/apache2/ and grep -i webcit /etc/apache2/ returned: a shell.
20:44-!-Pici [] has joined #linode
20:44<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: no idea what you mean
20:44-!-Pici [] has left #linode []
20:44<BarkerJr>sheesh, I'm just making a joke :)
20:44<Keith-BlindUser>bob2: The above grep commands just returned the prompt. Nothing resulted.
20:45<emoboy>HoopyCat: The UK is wonderful for healthcare ;)
20:45<jess^>BarkerJr: it's more schadenfreude than humor.
20:45<BarkerJr>I bought this new linode *during* the issues yesterday
20:45<BarkerJr>it was slow to setup, though
20:45<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: fine
20:45<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: oh, -ir
20:45<BarkerJr>it's gonna take about a week before I stop making fun of linode
20:45<Keith-BlindUser>You know what? I never received an email from support about that issue; my host just automatically rebooted when Linode did whatever without notifying me. They had better include a communications plan next time.
20:46<HoopyCat>emoboy: i hear it's horrible! i know someone who got inpregnate and they were on a waiting list for nine months :-/
20:46-!-trelane [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:46<emoboy>HoopyCat: It's not the best but it's free so I'm not complaining ;)
20:46<HoopyCat>(... yeah, that's the only health care joke i have)
20:47<JDLSpeedy>whats the maximum number of loop devices would you guys think? what is to much for a linode to handle?
20:47<jess^>Keith-BlindUser: file a ticket and request that they do that. :)
20:47<Guspaz|m><3 Universal Healthcare
20:47<emoboy>JDLSpeedy: The number one before it blows up ;)
20:47<KingTarquin>The UK's healthcare is crap. They invented a super bug, called it the NHS Superbug, and gave it the patients!
20:47<bob2>JDLSpeedy: why would you have more than one
20:47<emoboy>KingTarquin: Why do you think I *never* go to A&E...
20:48<JDLSpeedy>well, im planning to use images as peoples virtual directorys
20:48<TheFirst>bob2: mounting multiple encrypted filesystems? mounting isos?
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20:48<KingTarquin>Its not really A&E that contained the superbug, it was more the long-stay wards.
20:48<KingTarquin>Where cleaning standards weren't the best.
20:49<JDLSpeedy>if they need move to another server just unmount and rsync 1 file instead of 400 files
20:49<HoopyCat>JDLSpeedy: i suppose it makes quota management more simple, too
20:49<bob2>do you really have so many linodes and so many transfers that this is a sensible course of action?
20:49<JDLSpeedy>thats what i was going to say too HoopyCat, you read my mind
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20:50*emoboy can't decide if he wants to get a 360 or 540 but wants to run RoR and DNS so probably a 720 would be best not that he can afford that xD
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20:50<emoboy>Anyone wanna buy me a Linode 14400 for 2 years for my birthday?
20:51<Guspaz|m>Upgrades are simple, so go for the cheaper one and then only upgrade if you need it.
20:51<emoboy>Maybe I'll go buy a macbook insted... I'll get more use out of it than a linode Linode 14400 xD
20:51<HoopyCat>emoboy: DNS is really lightweight if done right (and is probably pretty optional); railsrumble competitors get 360s. take that as you will :-)
20:51-!-cmjb [] has joined #linode
20:51<agnor>emoboy: You probably don't need a whole lot to run that.... As HoopyCat just pointed out
20:51<Keith-BlindUser>bob2: It's showing some information in the /etc/apache2/conf.d/webcit.conf witch appears to just be a simlink to /etc/citadel/webcit.conf. Both files look identicle in content when opened. Then, the lines where I attempted to just: include /etc/citadel/webcit.conf in my virtual host, but when I try to start Apache with that site active, it fails.
20:51<agnor>darn, I'm too slow
20:51<linbot>New news from forums: Aftermath? in Backup Service Beta <>
20:52<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: so don't do any of this
20:52<bob2>Keith-BlindUser: have redirect to
20:52<HoopyCat>aftermath i take the bus back home, why do you ask?
20:52<HoopyCat>oops, parse error
20:52<Keith-BlindUser>But how does a redirect work?
20:52<jkwood>emoboy: Yes, but the Macbook doesn't come with an always-on internet connection.
20:52<emoboy>jkwood: Lol true :(
20:53<bob2>browswer: hey, give me
20:53<bob2>server: oh, nah man, it's moved to
20:53<Keith-BlindUser>No no...isn't there a way to spessify directs in Apache?
20:53<bob2>broswer: oh, give me then
20:53<Keith-BlindUser>I mean: redirects
20:54<agnor>yeah, you can do rewrites in the http config
20:54<bob2>Redirect permanent /
20:54<Keith-BlindUser>I just want to take people to what they would have got if anyone had typed: without having to actually type out that.
20:54<bob2>^ in's vhost
20:54<emoboy>I wish there was 72hours in a day... I'd get soo much more done
20:54<bob2>emoboy: spend less time on irc
20:55<emoboy>bob2: I'ts compiling ;) Nah.. I do actuly spend too much time in IRC and not enough in notepad :(
20:55<bob2>any time in notepad is too much
20:55<jkwood>Use emacs, and you can actually irc and code at the same time.
20:55<Keith-BlindUser>LOL no it isn't.
20:56<bob2>or any other editor
20:56<bob2>DOES probably was more featurey than notepad
20:56<bob2>er DOS
20:56<emoboy>bob2: Naturaly I mean notepad++ which is nice to code in
20:56<jkwood>Then again, emacs had to be lifted to the ISS in a Saturn V. The shuttle couldn't lift it.
20:58<HoopyCat>cloud theologists continue to speculate about whether caker can create a linode so big that not even emacs will OOM it
21:00*emoboy hates OOMing :<
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21:10<Keith-BlindUser>Not sure if this syntax is right, but I used: redirect <URL1> <URL2> didn't work out apparently. <URL1> and <URL2> represent respective http urls.
21:10<Keith-BlindUser>In otherwords: redirect was what I tried putting into my vhost
21:11<BarkerJr>redirectmatch ^/$
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21:18<laser`>Keith-BlindUser: The first item isn't a URL, but the path on your local server
21:18<jforman>regex for.. ^ == beginning of the line
21:18<laser`>Er, on the domain you're seeing
21:18<laser`>So Redirect /
21:18<laser`>Would redirect all requests to the root of your vhost to that URL
21:18<Keith-BlindUser>Then would point at that?
21:18<Keith-BlindUser>Hold on.
21:19<laser`>It'd send out a redirect header
21:19<laser`>So you have to put it in your vhost declaration
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21:21<Keith-BlindUser>Er: I did: redirect / in my vhost, restarted and...failed! Did I forget something?
21:22<bob2>Connecting to||:80... failed: Connection refused.
21:22<bob2>perhaps your config change broke apache and now it doesn't start
21:23<Keith-BlindUser>The redirect option?
21:23<Keith-BlindUser>Probably broake something
21:23<Keith-BlindUser>I just brought down for now.
21:23<bob2>no, apache is not listening on that IP anymore
21:23<laser`>Syntax looks good
21:24<bob2>which is presumably your linode's one and only ip?
21:24-!-Sean [] has joined #linode
21:24<laser`>Apache should spit out an error if it fails to start?
21:24<Sean>What processors do the VPS' use here?
21:24<laser`>Sean: Intel Xeons
21:24<laser`>It varies on the exist host
21:24<laser`>2xl quad-cores though
21:25<Sean>how many GHz?
21:25<laser`>Varies depending on the host
21:25<Sean>because i always have CPU problems
21:25<laser`>model name : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU L5420 @ 2.50GHz
21:25<bob2>if you're going to be smashing your cpu all the time, get a dedicated server for 10x as much
21:25<BarkerJr>cat /proc/cpuinfo
21:25<laser`>tbh, the Xeon's a beefy chip :P
21:26<Keith-BlindUser>laser`: Are you sure that the following is valid? "redirect /" (Without the quotes) and do note the space after the first /, is correct? All apache did until I shut the vhost down with a2dissite was spit out ?"Failed!"
21:26<Keith-BlindUser>So I had to disable that vhost entirely.
21:27<Sean>ok so i found a dedicated server place offering 1.66GHz AMD Sempron 2000+. is your VPS packages better?
21:27<jkwood>Most assuredly.
21:27<laser`>Sean: In terms of CPU, a lot
21:27<laser`>Keith-BlindUser: Unless Apache's case-sensitive, yes
21:27<quanin>Keith-BlindUser: reenable the site and have apache check your config files.
21:27<laser`>Perhaps check the error log?
21:27<quanin>and that too.
21:27<Sean>i have the linode 540 but i always at 100.3% CPU
21:28<Sean>what should i do
21:28<bob2>Sean: why?
21:28<palintheus>fix it
21:28<laser`>Sean: That sounds like an issue with your app
21:28<quanin>Sean: as far as i know, that's out of 400%.
21:28-!-Guspaz|m [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
21:28<Sean>bob2: im constantly running java applications
21:28<laser`>Something infinite looping
21:29<bob2>there you go
21:29<Sean>if i upgrade my package, will my CPU improve?
21:29<laser`>Kind of
21:29<laser`>You have the same CPU
21:29<laser`>It's just split between less users
21:29<laser`>But, tbh, that doesn't sound like your problem
21:29<laser`>A broken app sounds like your problem
21:29<Yaakov>Sean: If you are using 100% of one of the four CPUs you are doing something.
21:29<Sean>im 100% sure its not broken
21:29<Yaakov>Whart are you *doing*?
21:30<Sean>i have multiple users connecting to my java app
21:30<laser`>What does the Java app do?
21:30<Yaakov>What does htop say is the top CPU user?
21:30<laser`>(or top)
21:30<quanin>sean: if you're doing something that's hammering a CPU like that, whatever you're doing is broken.
21:30<laser`>(if you don't have htop installed)
21:30<Sean>its a simple java multiple game where ppl can connect to my ip thru a provided client to play
21:31<laser`>Sean: The Sempron would be a downgrade
21:31<Peng_>Sean: Then why is it maxing out one CPU?
21:31<Sean>because alot of ppl connect i guess?
21:32<Peng__>At least it's single-threaded. :\
21:32<kyhwana>time to make it multi-threaded
21:32<laser`>Sean: It seems more likely that the app is broken/in an infinite loop
21:32<Yaakov>Sean: 100% is 1/4 of the CPU you have.
21:32<Peng_>Sean: Define "a lot of people".
21:32<Yaakov>But it is VERY hugh utilization if it is always doing that.
21:32<laser`>Does it 100% even if no-one is connected?
21:32<Sean>like 30-40 ppl constantly
21:32<Yaakov>high. too.
21:33<Sean>if noone is connected the CPU isnt 100%
21:33<Yaakov>So then you just have a pig of an application.
21:33<Keith-BlindUser>Okay: Now I get a syntax error: claims that is a "Non-URL" Well, actually I did: redirect /webcit/ permanent then the url.
21:33<Sean>any reccomendations then?
21:33<Sean>is linode not my place to go?
21:33<laser`>Sean: Optimise your app
21:33<Keith-BlindUser>Looks like I nearly got that redirect apache configuration directive line..
21:33-!-jspiros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:34-!-jspiros [] has joined #linode
21:34<palintheus>the cpu isn't the issue, it's the app
21:34<quanin>sean: if anything linode's the best place for you to go. your app would die or be killed elsewhere.
21:34<laser`>Keith-BlindUser: I think it has to be Redirect permanent /
21:34<BarkerJr>64-bit might decrease CPU
21:34<Sean>ok i get these emails all the time
21:34<Sean>Your Linode, linode25423, has exceeded the notification threshold (90) for CPU Usage by averaging 100.5% for the last 2 hours.
21:34<Sean>is that bad?
21:34<Yaakov>Sean: It seems as though the problem is the app. You could throw CPU at it, but the reality is that you have a hog.
21:34<laser`>Sean: Your app doesn't appear to scale
21:34<palintheus>I don't think you really understand....
21:34<jkwood>64-bit would increase memory used, though.
21:35<laser`>Currently, your app is running on a very fast processor
21:35<laser`>And it's still using 100%
21:35<laser`>you need to make it either scale, or optimise it.
21:35<Sean>i know my app is very complicated. it was written by many people for 2 years
21:35<jkwood>I think that the medicine here is multithreading.
21:35<brian>Sean, it was written by Indians and Russians you paid $4/hour? :o
21:35<Sean>back to the 400% thing though... does this mean im fine?
21:36<quanin>brian: +1
21:36<laser`>Sean: No, not really.
21:36<Sean>haha no.. just developpers passed down
21:36<jkwood>You can get $4 an hour for writing Java? Sign me up!
21:36<quanin>sean: well, it means out of 4 CPU's you can access, you've maxed out 1.
21:36<quanin>and maxed it out real good.
21:36<Yaakov>A many-person two-year JAVA project doesn't sound promising vis-à-vis efficiency.
21:36<Sean>should i move to a dedicated server then?
21:36<laser`>Sean: No.
21:36<laser`>That won't help the problem
21:37-!-ruotsalainen [~unknown@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:37<laser`>The problem is that your *app* can not scale.
21:37<palintheus>how many times does "optimize your app" need to be said?
21:37<laser`>It needs to be able to use all of the resources that it has at its disposal
21:37<Sean>im pretty sure the app couldn't be any more scaled
21:37<laser`>And at the moment, it can't do that
21:37<brian>stop hiring third world workers without a project manager imo
21:37<laser`>Sean: It's only using 1 of the 4 CPUs at the moment - how is that scaled?
21:37<Yaakov>"any more scaled" doesn't make sense.
21:38<laser`>Moving to a dedicated server would make your problems worse, unless you move to a very expensive one of a roughly equal spec to a Linode box
21:38<Sean>so is my problem just the code of the app?
21:38<laser`>Which would just put you in the same position as before.
21:38<laser`>Sean: Yes
21:38<palintheus>Sean: Yes.
21:38<jkwood>There are some functions (methods) that could stand to be optimized.
21:39<Keith-BlindUser>Now this is getting crazyer.
21:39<Sean>there plenty of other people using the same code on other VPS' but they dont have the CPU problem.. thats what i dont get
21:39<brian>cliffnotes: Sean's application runs in a single thread so it doesn't take advantage of multiple cores.
21:39<jkwood>Hmm... that's a different thing.
21:39<Keith-BlindUser>If I spessify: redirect permanent /webcit/ and restart apache2, it simply says, "Failed!" Doesn't give a syntax error, or anything. And yet, if I do not include: /webcit/, it says the "URL to redirect to is missing."
21:40<Keith-BlindUser>Somehow it's that direct line or something.
21:40<Sean>im running a java server bwt
21:40<Keith-BlindUser>Maybe the java server is doing something constantly witht he CPU?
21:40-!-daMaestro [] has joined #linode
21:40<agnor> Keith: did you ever figure out if it's an alias that got set up, or a rewrite? (Sorry if I missed it, been idling and coming back)
21:41<daMaestro>hey guys... anyone having issue with centos 5.4 and MAC addresses changing?
21:41<Sean>well it has to constantly access character files and change them?
21:42<Keith-BlindUser>agnor: Well, now we have a more interesting problem. Scan the logs. You'll see where I keep coming back to a single directive in the vhost file now. It's the redirect directive that is screwing me up now. You usually have to provide a status to that directive. So:
21:42<laser`>Keith-BlindUser: You don't have to
21:42<daMaestro>or is this still a hangover from the updates issue?
21:43<laser`>The status is optional and defautls to "temporary"
21:43<Keith-BlindUser>redirect permanent /webcit/ Should work. But Apache dies isntantly with: "Failed!" No error message is logged, or anything. It simply doesn't wish to restart at all. If I forget the /webcit/ and just use: redirect permanent It says the URL to redirect to is missing.
21:43<agnor>daMaestro: I haven't seen anyone mention that issue today
21:43<agnor>I didn't come in until 4 Eastern, though
21:43<Sean>brian: what do you mean by my java server only using 1 thread?
21:43<daMaestro>my MAC address changed
21:43<daMaestro>weak, sauce
21:43-!-kelvinq [~kelvinq@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:44<HoopyCat>daMaestro: if you originally deployed centos 5.2, and this is your first boot since upgrading to 5.4, nuke the HWADDR line from your ifcfg-eth0 -- your MAC didn't change, the config file was wrong
21:44<laser`>Keith-BlindUser: I have this line in my Apache config: Redirect /~chris/
21:44<laser`>And it works perfectly
21:44-!-lesterc [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:45<laser`>So I'm not sure what your issue is :/
21:45-!-lesterc [] has joined #linode
21:45<laser`>daMaestro: Yes, I did actually
21:45<laser`>But it wasn't related to the update issue
21:45<laser`>It was a CentOS issue, I think
21:45<daMaestro>HoopyCat, i was running 5.3, yes
21:45<laser`>(because it happened before the issues yesterday)
21:45<daMaestro>HoopyCat, i've logged into the ajax console and updated the config
21:46<Keith-BlindUser>It does? Well why does my /webcit/ fail then?
21:46<Sean>ok guys just please give me suggestions. i am running a java server on linode540. it has to constantly edit character files of 30-40 people. i get emails every 2 hours telling me my linode has exceeded the notification threshold (90) for CPU Usage by averaging 100.5% for the last 2 hours.
21:46<laser`>Keith-BlindUser: I don't know :(
21:46<Keith-BlindUser>I tell you: apache just dies. Try connecting to my server, on I bet the connection refused is what the system will respond with.
21:46<laser`>Sean: Disable the notifications, or fix your app :D
21:46<kyhwana>Sean: change the notification threshold?
21:46<daMaestro>HoopyCat, so you're saying that the mac exposed to the guest was not the real MAC? how does that work?
21:46<Sean>laser: i feel that this CPU problem may affect my app tho
21:47<laser`>Sean: Your app *is* the CPU problem
21:47<Sean>because sometimes the app fails at editing multiple files during a busy time
21:47<HoopyCat>daMaestro: the one on the HWADDR line in ifcfg-eth0 was snuck in there by the installer from which the image was made; nothing before 5.4 cared about it, but now 5.4 does. removing the HWADDR line should cause it to stop caring about it.
21:48<Sean>i know my app is the problem... but what can i do besides turning my app or notifications off.
21:48<laser`>Sean: Your app is badly written. There are 4 CPUs in the box. Your app can only use 1 of them.
21:48-!-donkey [] has left #linode []
21:48<laser`>Sean: Stop running the app?
21:48<daMaestro>HoopyCat, ahh.. so it's from the install instance
21:48<path>the default notification thresholds are too low
21:48<path>set it to like 500
21:48<Sean>laser: why would my app be only using 1 CPU?
21:48*Keith-BlindUser growls
21:49<palintheus>because that's how it was written
21:49<laser`>Sean: Because it's badly written, and that's all it can take advantage of.
21:49<daMaestro>HoopyCat, thanks for the clarification
21:49<laser`>Sean: To use multiple CPUs you need to have something called "multi-threading", which your app does not have.
21:49<Sean>laser: ok ill look into that
21:49<Peng_>path: The CPU notification should be set to 500?
21:49<Keith-BlindUser>Sean: Turn your app off.. Do you still receive notifications? That will proove what we've all been saying about your java server is true.
21:50<Sean>yes, when my app is off, the CPU does not max out to 100%
21:50-!-dustin__ [] has joined #linode
21:50<HoopyCat>daMaestro: yup... kind of a silly little bug. :-)
21:50<Peng_>Why turn it off? Just check top/htop/ps/whatever.
21:50<daMaestro>yeah, but HWADDR is important when you start dealing with multiple NICs
21:50<Sean>however when there are only like 15 people connecting it doesnt average 100% CPU
21:50<Peng_>(well, since it sucks, turning it off is good, but it isn't necessary to check what's using your CPU.)
21:51<Peng_>Sean: What does it average?
21:51<dustin__>hey im still having disk errors with my linode i have just reinstalled 2 distro's can some one msg me?
21:51<HoopyCat>Sean: consider using whatever utilities your language has for profiling to figure out what it's doing when it's spinning its wheels. if it's a server app, you're probably using the wrong way to poll a socket.
21:51<daMaestro>HoopyCat, initrd creation with different module load order causes nics that are not identified by MAC address to change device ordering
21:51<Sean>when i do ps ux its about 80%
21:51<HoopyCat>daMaestro: nod, which doesn't matter in a VPS environment, but it doesn't know that :-)
21:51<daMaestro>HoopyCat, i'd recommend updating your recommendation to "use ifconfig eth0 to find the MAC and update the HWADDR" ;-)
21:52<laser`>I just ran system-config-network again and it worked
21:52<Keith-BlindUser>Unusually hig.
21:52<HoopyCat>daMaestro: you don't have multiple NICs, so it would turn a 10-second fix into a 45-second fix for no gain :-)
21:52<Sean>Could it possibly be that my app is simply too powerfull to run on any VPS (if it was written properly)?
21:53<bob2>how can you tell without profiling it?
21:53<kyhwana>Sean: no, just that you're letting too many people connect/you're loading the VPS too much
21:53<dustin__>so anyone know why still getting disk errors on nodes ???
21:53<HoopyCat>Sean: "powerful" is a rather biased word, but it's certainly got a lot of some adjective.
21:53<daMaestro>HoopyCat, thanks for the info
21:54-!-kelvinq [] has joined #linode
21:54<Sean>ok thanks guys.. i will look into multithreading and optimizing it!
21:54<bob2>multithreading doesn't reduce cpu use
21:54-!-Sean [] has left #linode []
21:54<HoopyCat>20 GOTO 10
21:54-!-syntaxman [] has joined #linode
21:54<jkwood>bob2: It could even the load out, though, which will accomplish a similar thing.
21:55-!-syntaxman [] has quit []
21:55*Keith-BlindUser growls..
21:55<Keith-BlindUser>This directive is busted.
21:55<dustin__>ok anyone know why linodes stil wont bootup from disk errors ?
21:55<dustin__>please anyone
21:55<dustin__>its been 2 friggin days
21:55<bob2>dustin__: file a support ticket
21:55<HoopyCat>dustin__: have you opened a ticket?
21:55<dustin__>i did
21:55<laser`>dustin__: Have you filed a support ticket?
21:55<dustin__>i just want a quick info
21:55<dustin__>i filed 2 tickets
21:55<laser`>Did they get responded to?
21:56<HoopyCat>dustin__: what did the ticket response say?
21:56<dustin__>they gave me a link to goto
21:56<dustin__>it didnt help
21:56<HoopyCat>aight, laser`'s got this one covered, i'm going to haul out the kitchen trash and go to sleep.
21:56<bob2>then followup
21:56<dustin__>it said things should be resolved by now
21:56<dustin__>i just reinstalled ubuntu and it crapped out and reinstall archlinux and crapped out
21:56<dustin__>is it only happing to the dallas datacenter or is it all dc's ?
21:56<laser`>dustin__: Have you filed a ticket specifically about your hard drive issues?
21:56<laser`>dustin__: I think it's only happening to you
21:56<dustin__>yeah i just refild aticket about the drive issue 10 mins ago
21:57<laser`>Best hang around for one of them to get a response to you then
21:57<jkwood>HoopyCat: 10 GOTO SLEEP
21:57<dustin__>i run vmware,xen, and so on at work so im not stupid :/
21:57<Keith-BlindUser>Perhaps a problem with the actual host drive such as an RAID sub-system?
21:57<dustin__>this is out of my hands
21:57<Keith-BlindUser>My Linode has no disk errors at all.
21:57<Keith-BlindUser>And is located in the Dallas datacenter, so ..
21:57<dustin__>the deploy works fine, soon as it reboots bam bitchs cant find super block
21:57<laser`>dustin__: It's possibly either just you, or just your host
21:57<@jed>dustin__: we're swimming in tickets, hang tight
21:58<@jed>your situation interests me
21:58<laser`>Ah there we go :)
21:58<@jed>dustin__: having a look
21:58<dustin__>some one is responding
21:59<dustin__>im sorry for bitching guys, im at work im a sysadmin and im doign rollouts been a 20 hour day so im just stressed
21:59<@jed>chris is sleeping, I gotcha :)
21:59<dustin__>i really like you guys so dont take itthe wrong way
21:59<@jed>dustin__: making stuff happen, stand by
21:59<Battousai>it's never a good thing when jed says that
22:00<dustin__>chris told me to try Latest 2.6 Paravirt kernel doing that now
22:00<dustin__>jed thanks man
22:00<laser`>Alright guys, nn!
22:00<@jed>dustin__: quit fighting me, hands off :)
22:00-!-laser` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:01<dustin__>i guess chris is caker
22:01<dustin__>thanks guys for responding
22:01<dustin__>im sorry and i know the pain of tickets :/
22:01<@jed>dustin__: don't boot your linode right now
22:01<dustin__>im going to have a smoke so ok
22:01<dustin__>i just switched the kernel
22:01<dustin__>and did a reboot maybe 3 mins ago
22:01<dustin__>i wont touch it
22:01<agnor>I'll go smoke too if it'll help mine out :)
22:02<agnor>I don't usually smoke but I'm willing to make an exception
22:02*Keith-BlindUser growls
22:02<dustin__>im going to have a cig, send me a msg if you need to tell me anything please or respond to the ticket
22:02<amitz>hmm that's an interesting business. Buy a linode for 2 years and start renting it at a lower price than regular :-D
22:06-!-dajhorn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:09<dustin__>i guess jed is taking care of me now
22:09<@jed>dustin__: caker and I both are
22:09<@jed>did you dist-upgrade this from jaunty to karmic?
22:09<dustin__>ya i did
22:10<dustin__>even with arch i did a sys update and it still crashed
22:10<dustin__>i did the karmic update cuz im lazy and wanted epic5
22:10<dustin__>is that the problem?
22:10<dustin__>i ran karmic in the past with out a problem...
22:10<dustin__>but at this point ill run anything
22:10<@jed>can't speak for the arch issue, but this feels like a botched dist-upgrade
22:10<@jed>that was caker's thought first and I agree with him
22:10<dustin__>ill redo the node
22:10<dustin__>should i not goto karmic ?
22:10<@jed>k, unmounting and pulling out
22:11<@jed>well, not via dist-upgrade, it looks like
22:11<@jed>plus it's still beta
22:11<jkwood>That's an unfortunate turn of phrase.
22:11<dustin__>yeah few days left i figured it was ok, im running karmic on my laptop and a few dev machines at work for vmware so figured it be ok but ill take your advice
22:11<Keith-BlindUser>Why is apache2 restarting with: "Restarting Apache2... failed!"? No explination.
22:11<@jed>we'll drop karmic relatively quickly after it's out
22:11<dustin__>thanks guys for the help ill let you know how stuff works
22:11<jkwood>Is your hostname set, Keith?
22:12<@jed>sure, keep us updated in the ticket dustin
22:12<dustin__>to be honest, im not happy with karmic
22:12<dustin__>im moving machines here at work back to debian
22:12<dustin__>same with my laptop
22:12<dustin__>the sreadahead sucks in karmic locks machines up and stuff
22:12<dustin__>among other things
22:13-!-atula [] has joined #linode
22:13*path only uses LTS on servers anyhow
22:13<path>which isn't due to be out until next cycle
22:13<dustin__>for prod i only use LTS
22:13<path>8.04 has been good
22:13<megatron27>yeah it has
22:14<dustin__>funny how 8.04 is the last version where pptp worked correctly with network-manager
22:14<path>i'm sticking with it for my personal stuff (read: linode) as well
22:14<dustin__>i only worry about exploits with LTS
22:14<megatron27>rofl dustin__
22:14<path>why? they are quick to update it
22:14<path>i even updated tzdata three times last week
22:14<dustin__>lot of kernel exploits out their private ones
22:14<dustin__>even with fbsd
22:15<Keith-BlindUser>redirect permanent /webcit/ should not cause: "Restarting Apache2... failed!" But does, and if the /webcit/ is omitted after permanent, it claims the URL is missing and generates a syntax error.
22:15<dustin__>i got a buddy whos a fbsd kernel developer and he says its getting bad
22:15<dustin__>ill shut up
22:15<path>Keith-BlindUser: your config file is probably f'd up
22:15<Peng_>Slicehost has a blog post up about Karmic not working with their usual kernels (which are non-pv_ops, but around 2.6.24, IIRC).
22:15<dustin__>what are these pv kernels ?
22:15<dustin__>what is different about them
22:15<@jed>we've made it work but it must be coerced
22:16<@jed>dustin__: the way the communicate with the hardware itself
22:16<path>pv ops are para virtual operations?
22:16<path>i think
22:16<path>it's like what vmware tools does
22:16<dustin__>ah k
22:16<@jed>older xen kernels are aware of xen's existence and talk directly to it, paravirtual kernels are just compiled for "paravirtualized ops"
22:16<path>but instead it's built into the kernel
22:16<path>esx has a check box for it
22:16<path>but whenever i've tried it on esx, i've locked the host hard
22:17<dustin__>ah ok the pv didnt make me think paravirtualized sorry
22:17<dustin__>im really shot
22:18<Keith-BlindUser>It's with a virtual host. I am trying to force to redirect to the following: (you actually need the extra / or it doesn't bring up the citadel groupware server: and if a redirect block doesn't work, then what.
22:19-!-geoffeg [] has joined #linode
22:20<MJCS>i just mounted my 2 24" LCD's to my desk...and I have a bunch of spare parts
22:20<path>did you get those arms?
22:20<agnor>MJCS: what did you use to do it? monitor arms? I've been threatening to do that for a while now
22:21<path>i've been curious too.. might be nice to free up some desk space
22:21<megatron27>starting to hate VIM
22:21<MJCS>to monitor arms
22:21<MJCS>got some off of ebay
22:21<path>how much?
22:21<agnor>What brand are they?
22:22<Peng_>mikegrb: The iRPG bot is still down...?
22:22<MJCS>All i wanted to do was make both monitors rest on the upper part of my desk
22:22<path>Peng_: quick! change your nick!
22:22<MJCS>bratech lcd-t6
22:23-!-Omega [] has joined #linode
22:23<MJCS>24" is past the limit actually
22:23-!-Omega is now known as OmegaL
22:23<MJCS>but I have them resting on my desk so there is little weight
22:23<agnor>Jed: can you guestimate how long I'm looking at before you guys can get around to my linode?
22:23<OmegaL>yo, does anyone know how to setup php suid?
22:24<@jed>agnor: we're down to the last three tickets, strange we haven't gotten yours yet...
22:24<agnor>Yeah, been like six hours now :_/
22:24<@jed>I'll investigate after this one
22:24<MJCS>I just spent $65 on black cloth today
22:24<agnor>jed: thanks. ticket # is 107746, atlanta41 linode agnor
22:24<MJCS>60 yards
22:25<@jed>agnor: with your amazing luck, that's one of the last ones in the pile
22:25<@jed>someone's about to handle it right now
22:25<agnor>jed: that's the way my luck's been rolling lately.
22:25<@jed>I know it is because I just clicked and am handling 107747
22:25<@jed>and there was one above mine
22:26<Peng_>path: Duh, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!
22:26-!-Peng_ is now known as Peng
22:26-!-Peng__ is now known as Peng_
22:27<Peng>This'll confuse me.
22:27<megatron27>got problem solved thanks to #vim
22:27<path>Peng: everyone else will thank you
22:29-!-zack_ [] has quit [Quit: zack_]
22:29<Peng>path: Aww, I thought everybody other than tj loved underscores.
22:29<path>i was mostly speaking about tj. i don't think anyone else cared that much. :)
22:29<Peng>path: tj *is* happy.
22:30<path>that means OFTC is happy
22:30<Peng>I'm still Peng_ on every other network.