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#linode IRC Logs for 2010-05-02

---Logopened Sun May 02 00:00:21 2010
00:02<Talman>Fear, she's awake.
00:04-!-jackson_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:11*amitz wears his old trusty tin foil hat.
00:12<amitz>while running rm -rf /
00:16<amitz>HedgeMage: in case that's a random lol, I fear Perihelion's mind reading and IT forensic fu. :-p
00:17-!-troy [troy@2001:470:1f04:b92::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:17<HedgeMage>amitz: ahh, I was wondering why the tin foil, but realized it was directed at Perihelion
00:24-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has quit [Quit: Client Quit]
00:28<nisstyre56>anyone else sick of the word "bloated" being used?
00:28<erikh>p/w 2
00:28<Talman>in what way? :)
00:29<nisstyre56>when people use it to describe 90% of programs
00:29<Talman>"Every month, I get incredible bloating, so I take X." or "OMG WINDOWS IS SO BLOATED?"
00:29<nisstyre56>"oh X is full of bloat, and so is that, and that's bloatware!"
00:29<nisstyre56>get a computer newer than 1997 ffs
00:29<Talman>I think it depends on what the bloat is. Can you give an example?
00:30<Talman>I mean, the HP stuff bunbled with their printer drivers IS bloatware.
00:30<nisstyre56>someone was ranting about how python is bloated
00:30<Talman>The crap installer CD that comes with a Qwest DSL modem? Bloatware and adware.
00:30<@jed>the standard library is
00:30<nisstyre56>as in the python interpreter
00:30*Talman afks. "Popcorn, don't you two start yet."
00:30<HedgeMage>lol Talman
00:31<nisstyre56>pretty sure any higher level language is going to run slower than a lower one
00:31<nisstyre56>it's not just that
00:32<nisstyre56>if a program has even a little bit of eye candy it's bloatware according to some people
00:32<@jed>nisstyre56: language has nothing to do with it
00:32<nisstyre56>I know
00:32<@jed>a crappy C programmer can write code that performs more poorly than an adept python programmer
00:32<@jed>and vice versa
00:33<ware>While jerking off with some sort of lubricant, mount something like
00:33<ware>the corner of the bathroom sink so that your balls are rubbing. This
00:33<ware>adds intense pleasure to your nut sack. Also, try lubing up something
00:33<@jed>as a generality, interpreted languages will perform more poorly than compiled languages, but in most applications the difference is negligible
00:33<ware>like your toothbrush handle and stick it up your ass while
00:33<ware> hits the G-spot nicely.
00:33<nisstyre56>lol wtf
00:33<ware>wrong window
00:33<ware>mikegrb: my bad dude
00:33<Talman>Hello, Ware.
00:33<ware>wrecks the mind
00:33<Talman>How you doin.
00:34<Talman>So, is this copypasta?
00:34<@jed>delicious copypasta
00:34<Talman>Or are you dispensing sexual knowledge to efnet?
00:34-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
00:35<HedgeMage>Completely off-topic, potentially offensive, and anatomically incorrect -- it must be from efnet!
00:35*HedgeMage chuckles
00:35<Talman>I was wondering about the anatomically incorrect part myself.
00:35<HedgeMage>You know, there's a reason I don't use efnet...they find out I'm a chick and I get...odd...sexual overtures in alarming volume.
00:35<Talman>Tab A does not come with Area G.
00:36<@jed>HedgeMage: overtures?
00:36<HedgeMage>And for me to call something odd is saying something!
00:36<Talman>HedgeMage, you're a chick. Will you _________ my _________?
00:36<@jed>I'm impressed they're that coy
00:36<HedgeMage>jed: they aren't, I was trying to be polite
00:36<Talman>I think I'm being too nice.
00:36*HedgeMage smirks
00:36<Talman>Gotta throw more ____s in there.
00:36<Talman>Actually, I can sum it up with 3 words.
00:37<Talman>HedgeMage has joined #some_channel
00:37<Talman>TITS OR GTFO
00:37<Talman>Ah, internets.
00:38<erikh>courtney gets that in TF2 from time to time
00:38<erikh>either that or people just get offensive.
00:38<erikh>like, intentionally.
00:39<HedgeMage>It really takes a lot to offend me. I just marvel at the social ineptitude I so often encounter.
00:39<Talman>Some people are trolls. Others really don't want girls in their shooter games.
00:39<erikh>wth passenger
00:39<HedgeMage>I'm a coder, not a gamer.
00:39<erikh>why don't you keep the rack processes
00:39<@jed>ha ha...rack.
00:39*jed shot
00:40<erikh>rack is awesome
00:40<erikh>chris2 is awesome.
00:40<erikh>neukirchen is one of my favorite programmers to talk to.
00:40<erikh>and it's kind of odd given he's like 10 years my junior
00:41<erikh>he wrote a site compiler in m4.
00:41<erikh>I mean, that takes fuckin' awesome
00:41<erikh>that's all
00:41<erikh>just plain, fuckin' awesome
00:41<@jed>is still linked to efnet
00:42<@jed>that always made me l-o-l
00:42<erikh>poor dianora
00:42<Talman>AOL had an IRC network? :)
00:42<@jed>they linked to efnet for many moons
00:42<@jed>undernet, too
00:42<erikh>yeah dude
00:42<erikh>and usenet
00:43<Talman>I remember usenet.
00:43<erikh>it's ... what aol goons are famous for
00:43<Talman>I don't remember AOL Keyword IRC.
00:43<Talman>Granted, I don't think I ever legally had an AOL account.
00:44<@jed>Talman: the original goal was to make AOL customers who wanted to IRC use theirs, I think
00:44<@jed>but that failed because they all ended up on my dalnet node
00:44<Talman>Ah, just told everyone to use
00:44<Talman>I think I was on dalnet.
00:44<erikh>I was!
00:45<erikh>I had a channel called #thedeli
00:45<Talman>Honestly, I didn't talk, I just used it for stuff.
00:45<erikh>with other people who had deli in their name.
00:45<Talman>Oh God.
00:45<Talman>I remember now.
00:45<erikh>I was also a regular in #marijuana.
00:45<Talman>I was on efnet.
00:45<erikh>but, I don't smoke anymore.
00:45<Perihelion>jed: efnet4lyfe
00:45<Talman>AOL would do chatroom to IRC link.
00:45-!-TinyAmitz [Amitz@] has joined #linode
00:45<@jed>Perihelion: O-G motha
00:45*erikh spent a lot of time on dalnet
00:45<erikh>I was in #E on efnet
00:45<Talman>I don't know the details, but my ex-gf was on dalnet and efnet when she was a teenager.
00:45<erikh>baaaaaaaack in the day.
00:45<erikh>and #pokey
00:46<Talman>#sailormoon and crap. Used to "hack" people with Sub7.
00:46<@jed>erikh: I hung out in #f_t_w
00:46<@jed>there's more letters, obviously
00:46<@jed>but I must appear professional at all times
00:46*jed shifty eyes
00:46<TinyAmitz>a channel for everyone whose nick start with e.
00:47<purrdeta>jed: as if.
00:47<@jed>erikh: did you idle on dalnet when liberty.nj was linked
00:47<erikh>oh, god, I dont' remember.
00:48<erikh>I remember trolling #teens4jesus
00:48<TinyAmitz>i should make one...
00:48<@jed>liberty.nj was the bidness, player
00:48<@jed>that was my slice of dalnet heaven
00:48<erikh>back then I was just a sprout
00:48<@jed>I opered on it, but paid for the colo of the admin
00:48<erikh>and it was ... 1996?
00:48<@jed>part of it
00:48<erikh>sound right?
00:50<erikh>well that's pretty damn neat
00:50<Talman>>.> I'm trying to remember what the hell I was doing in 1996. I think I was doing PennMUSH.
00:51<Talman>And Napster.
00:51<erikh>jed: what are you doing online anyhow? aren't you ... spending money you make or something?
00:51<@jed>lol money
00:51<erikh>s/aren't/shouldn't you/
00:51<Talman>I remember Newsgroups.
00:51<Talman>Used Agent.
00:51<@jed>I'm debating politics with Perihelion and catching up on google reader in bed before the plunge to sleep
00:53<daevien>debating politics in bed with Perihelion, isnt' there some sort of no fraternization rules at linode? :p
00:53<@jed>the google reader part was in bed, perv
00:53*daevien runs
00:53<Perihelion>I will destroy you.
00:53<purrdeta>she will
00:53<purrdeta>she is terrifying
00:54<Talman>I doubt they have such policies.
00:54<wolfnix>purrdeta: i see you
00:54<Talman>They're bad for morale.
00:54<Perihelion>04:53:57 [oftc] -!- Services is currently down.
00:54-!-jason2010111 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:54<Perihelion>my english is more better than yours
00:54<purrdeta>wolfnix: stalker!
00:54<Perihelion>Talman: Perhaps not, but I still have standards
00:55<Talman>I know nothing of your standards. I know only that unless you guys go to work in some kind of pesudo-military uniform, you probably don't have fraternization policies. :)
00:55<daevien>staples does :p
00:55<@jed>Talman: most places in the sixties had policies that two employees couldn't be married
00:55<Talman>And if you do... Then hopefully I'm supporting America.
00:55<Talman>That's the 1960s :)
00:56<daevien>but it's mostly an issue when one of the peopel is a manager
00:56<Perihelion>I'd totally marry a linode 720
00:56<StevenK>Only a 720?
00:56<Talman>Well, yes.
00:56<Perihelion>StevenK: it's not the size, it's how you use it
00:56<Talman>That's the traditional idea of fraternization. Officers/supervisors/managers don't fraternize with the enlisted/hourly.
00:56<StevenK>Perihelion: Bwahaha, I knew that was going to come up
00:56<Perihelion>oh it came up all right
00:57*StevenK faceplams
00:57<StevenK>*facepalms, even
00:57<Perihelion>Yeah I dont know
00:57<Perihelion>THere's a substantial amount of alcohol involved in this
00:57<Perihelion>i gud english though
00:57<Talman>Are any of you not drunk?
00:57<erikh>well, i'm sobering up and making coffee. does that count?
00:57<Perihelion>Being drunk is a staple of Linode culture.
00:58<StevenK>Perihelion: You speak the gud English?
00:58<erikh>oh. IR !linode
00:58<erikh>but I can drink like a fish.
00:58<Perihelion>You're part of Linodian society
00:58<daevien>i havent' drank in a month or so now
00:58<erikh>I am linodian!
00:58<Perihelion>Linodia \o/
00:58<StevenK>My metabolism is too fast for me to drink heavily :-(
00:58<Perihelion>Mine isn't
00:59*erikh gives up
00:59*StevenK continues to try and bend pbuilder to his will
01:03-!-TinyAmitz [Amitz@] has quit []
01:04-!-kake26 [] has joined #linode
01:05<kake26>hi all
01:06<kake26>nickserv is mia eh?
01:06<daevien>jed dismantled it for spare parts
01:06<Talman>Guess so.
01:07<kake26>oh well I guess it's ok
01:11<kake26>irc is so old school
01:11<kake26>a wonder it's around still
01:11<Perihelion>It's awesome
01:11<Talman>Its no wonder
01:12<Talman>Its low bandwidth, many clients for many platforms exist, and its hard to block.
01:12-!-troy [] has joined #linode
01:13-!-TinyAmitz [Amitz@] has joined #linode
01:13<kake26>I guess
01:15<kake26>so what's up people
01:15<Talman>Well, I just watched a cat take out a toddler set to Team Fortress 2 sounds.
01:15<TinyAmitz>!f zenith
01:15<linbot>TinyAmitz: In general terms, the zenith is the direction pointing directly "above" a particular location; that is, it is one of two vertical directions at the location, orthogonal to a horizontal flat surface there. The concept of "above" is more specifically defined in astronomy, geophysics and related sciences (e.g., meteorology) as the vertical direction opposite to the net gravitational force at a given (2 more messages)
01:15<Talman>Running baby running... CAT JUMP.
01:17<kake26>lets see what irc does to this phone's batt
01:17<erikh>NO CARRIER
01:18<erikh>man, that joke jsut doesn't work anymore.
01:18<TinyAmitz>wifi is a hog.
01:18<TinyAmitz>Yes, so '90 :-)
01:20<TinyAmitz>are they significant progress in internet routing or cabling. I remember in '90 my irc often lagged like crazy.
01:20<TinyAmitz>Doesn't happen often now.
01:20<Talman>WHere were you connecting to?
01:22<TinyAmitz>basically from asia to europe or us.
01:22<Talman>Possibly, then.
01:22<TinyAmitz>I wonder if the lag is fixed by better router? Fatter bandwidth? Better cabling?
01:22<kake26>mmm wifi
01:23<Talman>This story is awesome.
01:23<Talman>I had a client who did this.
01:23<Talman>Using Google as their address bar.
01:23<Talman>i.e. in the google search bar.
01:23-!-kassah_ [] has joined #linode
01:24<TinyAmitz>i did, someone mentioned it before and i found it quite convenient.
01:24<TinyAmitz>I do too now.
01:25<TinyAmitz>So google probably knows about shad^H^H^H^H sites i visit :-p
01:25<Talman>Yes, but when you search for things like "facebook login," you end up not at facebook.
01:26-!-kassah_ [] has quit []
01:26<Talman>In my case, the client was like, "My website isn't up!" It had only been registered 2 days ago. He thought that Bing WAS the address bar.
01:30-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Quit: walterheck]
01:30<TinyAmitz>i believe the concept of domain name is the left over of analog era. Once i can easily parse the ip address of a website from tv or friends (via bt phone), domain name can be rendered useless. or perhaps a flexible proxy to ip address that can be carried across provider, ignore this sentence if you like, it's for completeness.
01:31<TinyAmitz>Ip address can be the equivalent of phone number where they name the number however they like in their phonebook (locally)
01:31<Talman>Are you suggesting that we'll all remember IPv4 or IPv6 IPs?
01:32<TinyAmitz>No, bookmarking it.
01:32<Talman>And the first time you come in contact with the IP, without it being on your PC?
01:32<Talman>i.e. on the TV.
01:32<TinyAmitz>See my comment above about tv.
01:33<Talman>Yes, you said "easily parse," but numbers aren't condusive to memorization.
01:33<Talman>They're not memorable, unless you can somehow get vanity IPs.
01:33<Talman>Domain names are. You can usually instantly tell what something is by its alphanumeric domain name.
01:33<TinyAmitz>i mean parse as in there is a mechanism to store the number to your handheld device.
01:34<Talman>And what about our computers?
01:35<TinyAmitz>what about it?
01:36<Talman>How am I going to get these IPs into my computer if my handheld device is parsing them?
01:36<Talman>I like domains. I see no reason to shut them off and force everyone to start dealing with long strings of numbers.
01:39<TinyAmitz>there is that assumed mechanism to share the number with your computer. All i'm saying is once you can digitize it, the appeal of easy to remember domain decreases. Assuming such device becomes common.
01:39<Talman>Not from a marketing standpoint.
01:43<SelfishMan>well ive drunk to drown
01:43<TinyAmitz>from marketing standpoint, domain's appeal will be reduced to a condition like 'call 1-800-LINODEVPS'
01:43<SelfishMan>on every ocean i've been
01:44<TinyAmitz>Oh wait, i failed in comprehension.
01:46<kake26>battery fail
01:47<TinyAmitz>weak battery
01:47-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
01:47<kake26>connected from phone over wifi
01:49-!-takamichi [~pri@] has quit []
01:50*kake26 burp
01:50-!-takamichi [~pri@] has joined #linode
01:50<kake26>time for irc and fun
01:51<ware>Talman: alias ftl
01:51-!-Bhavic [~Bhavic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:51*kake26 wonders if he has his old perl irc code
01:52<kake26>there must be a better way then killing batts
01:52<linbot>SelfishMan: IP:; rDNS:; ASN adv net:; ASN: AS15335; ASN owner: KAPLAN TELEPHONE COMPANY, INC.; ASN reg: 2000-04-19; Abuse contact:; Net owner: KAPLAN TELEPHONE COMPANY, INC.; City: Kaplan; State: Louisiana; Postal code: 70548; Country: US;
01:53-!-Bhavic [] has joined #linode
01:54-!-medex [] has left #linode [Leaving]
01:55<fo0bar>!ipinfo 2607:f740:0:d::
01:55<linbot>fo0bar: Man, you really screwed up.
01:55<fo0bar>!ipinfo [2607:f740:0:d::]
01:55<SelfishMan>always some smartass that tries to do that
01:56-!-kake26 [] has left #linode []
01:56<fo0bar>yeah, !ipinfo should only service the cool, popular IP protocols!
01:56-!-kake26 [] has joined #linode
01:57<SelfishMan>fo0bar: considering how few sites actually have AAAA records it is pretty pointless
01:57<kake26>wrong key
01:57<Talman>Is that... IPv6?
01:57-!-SmallishAmitz [Amitz@] has joined #linode
01:57<fo0bar>Talman: yeah
01:57<Talman>What's... d?
01:58<fo0bar>nothing, just part of the address. it's a shortened form of 2607:f740:0000:000d:0000:0000:0000:0000
01:58-!-TinyAmitz [Amitz@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:59<SmallishAmitz>what? How the hell did i close the connection...
01:59<MTecknology>fo0bar: is that actually shorthand though? that's actually legit when you write it like that, isn't it?
02:00<chesty>SmallishAmitz: why does your wife call you tinyamitz?
02:00<fo0bar>MTecknology: yep. you should even be able to /whois me and I should show up as coming from fo0bar@2607:f740:0:d::face
02:00<SmallishAmitz>my irc client has a bug. i see myself as tiny but people seem to see me as smallish
02:00<MTecknology>IPv6 isn't even supported around here
02:01<MTecknology>SmallishAmitz: sounds like a problem between you and your prostitute, not us ;)
02:01<fo0bar>MTecknology: "here" as in linode?
02:01<MTecknology>fo0bar: my entire state
02:01<SelfishMan>I looked at making revip support ipv6 but there is so little value to it right now
02:01<fo0bar>MTecknology: I have several linodes (I've been here since the early days), but my IRC client is on a dedicated colo box in san jose
02:02<fo0bar>MTecknology: ahh
02:02<MTecknology>I figure linode will switch over when it's practical
02:02<SmallishAmitz>chesty: the other way around, i can't be specific. I don't want to make the rest green in envy.
02:02<fo0bar>MTecknology: you can always to IPv6 tunneling through, which is what I do at home
02:02<SelfishMan>i mean, hell doesn't even have an AAAA record
02:02<MTecknology>what benefit is there to that?
02:02<SelfishMan>yes, but that isn't the same as
02:03<fo0bar>I know, I have no idea why they did that
02:03<Talman>What benefit IS there to running a IPv6 tunnel?
02:03<Talman>I do.
02:03<fo0bar>since AAAA is not exclusive with A
02:03<Talman>It was a showcase of emerging technology, and a test bed.
02:03<SelfishMan>because ipv6 connectivity is pretty unstable in the US and several browsers default(ed) to ipv6 first
02:04<Talman>didn't you get a "cooler" version of google with it, anyway?
02:04<SelfishMan>Talman: no, not really
02:04<fo0bar>there's an animated logo, but that's pretty much it
02:04<SelfishMan>"gimmicky" but not "cooler"
02:05<Talman>Cooler means gimmicky. :)
02:05<SelfishMan>ipv6 is still 10 years away for servers
02:05<fo0bar><SelfishMan> ipv6 killed my parents! of course I'm bitter
02:05<SelfishMan>hell, ipv6 is 10 years away for the average ISP in the US since the equipment barely supports IPv4
02:07-!-FloodServ is "FloodServ" on (unknown)
02:07-!-FloodServ [] has joined #linode
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+v caker] by ChanServ
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+v irgeek] by ChanServ
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+v jed] by ChanServ
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+v tychoish] by ChanServ
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+v psandin] by ChanServ
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+v restelow] by ChanServ
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+v mikegrb] by ChanServ
02:07-!-binel [] has joined #linode
02:07<fo0bar>hello, OFTC.
02:07*SelfishMan waves at services
02:07-!-troy is now known as Guest13
02:07<wolfnix>yay services is back!
02:07-!-mode/#linode [+o Perihelion] by ChanServ
02:07<wolfnix>where is my +v or +o
02:08<wolfnix>or well my +b
02:08*jkwood services urmom
02:08<SelfishMan> /cop jkwood
02:08<Talman>What benefit does ipv6 give, now, via ipv4 tunnelling?
02:08-!-saikat [] has quit [Quit: saikat]
02:09<MTecknology>Talman: nothing now - in the future - a lot
02:10<Talman>Over tunnelling?
02:10<fo0bar>Talman: better knowledge and understanding, something to play with...
02:10<MTecknology>and when ipv4 addy's are used up and people are getting tired of heavy subnetting
02:10<SelfishMan>it gets people to configure IPv6 connectivity now until something native is available
02:11<fo0bar>well, once your ISP/provider/etc gets native ipv6, it makes tunnelling obsolete, but by that point it's an easy switch
02:11<wolfnix> offers alot.
02:11<wolfnix>for tunneling
02:11<fo0bar> <-- that very scenario basically happened to me last week
02:12<fo0bar>(2607:f740:0:d::/112 is my colobox's native network)
02:12<wolfnix>ipv6 is the furture <3, it will allow for alot of devices to be enabled
02:12-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
02:12-!-StevenK [] has quit [Quit: Lala]
02:13<Talman>I know about the "more devices" part.
02:13-!-binel_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:13<Talman>i.e. nanites in my blood stream can have an individual IP address.
02:14<wolfnix>technically it is more secure, since it would be harder for botnets to scan
02:14<purrdeta>My toaster needs an IP. The toast is getting pretty pissy without one.
02:14<fo0bar>my colo provider cheaped out on me and "only" gave me a /112 -- 65,535 usable addresses :)
02:14<wolfnix>it can tell your cell phone that it is cooking
02:14<fo0bar>(for a single box)
02:14<wolfnix>with a ip purrdeta
02:14-!-SubWolf [~subwolf@] has joined #linode
02:15<wolfnix>fo0bar: I think they are slinging out too many ips that aren't needed
02:15<purrdeta>of course. And then it can tell the fridge that it needs to dispense butter.
02:15-!-StevenK [] has joined #linode
02:15<wolfnix>and send your ipad a list of what you need
02:16<wolfnix>i like the idea of a ipad
02:16<kake26>so much caffeine and so many ideas but no hitting the zone where I can just code for hours
02:16<wolfnix>but i don't really want one
02:16<fo0bar>wolfnix: well, ipv6 was designed with a tiered hierarchy. ISPs would be /48s, and by default they would allocate /64s to clients. you're still talking about an inconceivable number of IPs per network, and an inconceivable number of networks per ISP
02:16<kake26>ipads are overrated
02:17-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit []
02:17<wolfnix>fo0bar: ya i know. sixxs gives out /48
02:17<kake26>now that HP bought palm I will wait for a webOS device
02:17<wolfnix>or something to people
02:17<wolfnix>kake26: that will be cheaper and interesting
02:18-!-saikat [] has joined #linode
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02:18<kake26>I own a pre already so I know what webOS is and does
02:18<kake26>I love it
02:18<wolfnix>I have a Centro
02:19<wolfnix>I think would be interesting
02:19<kake26>I upgraded from one actually
02:19<wolfnix>AspireĀ® Z5600
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02:21<wolfnix>kake26: I am thinking of going from a Centro to a DROID-Motorola
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02:23<kake26>wolfnix: I considered a htc hero but felt that would be cheating on palm who's devices I have used years
02:23<kake26>from the m100 to the centro
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02:23<wolfnix>went from windows mobile
02:23<wolfnix>to centro
02:24<kake26>I still have all the devices too
02:24<kake26>including my t5
02:24<kake26>all replaced by the pre I own now
02:26<kake26>webOS is fantastic, finally got linux where is belongs on my phone
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02:31<wolfnix>I am still thinking moto
02:32<wolfnix>because, well I am on VZW
02:32<wolfnix>my credit sucks
02:32<wolfnix>and I don't want to switch to sprint, when I know VZW's network is better
02:32<wolfnix>and they have a better LTE converison plan then sprint does
02:34<kake26>verizon has pre plus
02:36<kake26>but andriod might be cool
02:37<kake26>I should look into a andriod powered thing like netbook or something
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02:38<wolfnix>There isn't a android netbook
02:39<wolfnix>and the only thing odd about android is forcing to log into google
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02:40<kake26>google disagrees there seem to some out there
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02:40<Talman>Please show an android netbook.
02:40<Talman>Also, its a google OS, of course its tied to your google account.
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02:45<wolfnix>kake26: the idea is out there. Google OS is there.
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02:46<Talman>Is there a working device that's mass produced for buying?
02:46<wolfnix>Talman: yes, but I want to be able to sync my contacts from my PC, not to google, and then down to the phone
02:47<wolfnix>Talman: No. that is why I said, pointed out no netbook
02:47<Talman>wolfnix, oh, I fully drank the Google koolaid. Everything is through my google apps account.
02:47<Talman>Blackberry, laptops, desktop, etc.
02:47<Talman>akuan: If you're lucky, someone can help you, Please state the problem.
02:48<kake26>sold my soul to google a long time ago
02:48<kake26>yes how can we help?
02:48<Talman>I'm not cool enough for google to misuse my data.
02:48<wolfnix>I have google for my domain
02:48<wolfnix>but I like to control my data
02:49<Rob>google own my life, its bad when you think about it, but its good in that everything actaully works ;)
02:49<kake26>I pay for the premium apps for my personal mail
02:49<Talman>Why pay for premium if you have less than 50 users?
02:50<kake26>just myself it's cheaper then exchange and gives me the sync I want
02:51-!-saikat [] has quit [Quit: saikat]
02:51<kake26>tired of paying exchange providers 30 something a month just to for activesync too hook my phone up to my outlook
02:52<kake26>well I hate outlook and gmail is nicer then owa any day
02:52<Talman>What kind of phone do you use?
02:52<Talman>I use google sync for blackberry.
02:52<Talman>IMAP to sync my mail.
02:52<Talman>Thunderbird for IMAP email + shared calendar + shared contacts.
02:52<Rob>i use windows mobile and google's exchange emulation
02:52<kake26>I work in the hosting industry too so I know much about these sort of things
02:52<Rob>its awesome
02:53<Talman>I just use their sync app and everything syncs, no Exchange required.
02:53<Talman>Also, no fees.
02:53<kake26>I even support my companys exchange product
02:53<kake26>I use a palm pre currently
02:53<Rob>yeah but google run an exchange server, just point the device at that, and its all gravey
02:53<kake26>works like a charm with google apps
02:54-!-akuan001 [] has joined #linode
02:54<Rob>no special apps needed on the device, push email, etc etc
02:54<@Perihelion>Rob is a princess.
02:54<Rob>aww yeah
02:54<Rob>check out my crown ho ;)
02:54<kake26>microsoft got things right with exchage but google's sync perfected it
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02:55<kake26>well google got allot right with their gmail service
02:56<Talman>I like my not paying... what is it a month? 150?
02:56<kake26>adding sync was the clincher for me switching
02:56<Talman>Per user.
02:56<kake26>google is 50 bucks a mailbox for a year
02:57<Talman>Yeah, I like not having to pay that, and Google Apps links to the Google Sync thing automatically for my phone.
02:57<kake26>far cheaper then any exchange hoster
02:57<kake26>and works just as well
02:57<kake26>does what I need and want bottem line
02:57<Talman>i.e. I see no reason to switch to premium and its exchange emulation when everything works without it.
02:57<erikh>that's how they get ya
02:58<Rob>you dont need google premium to use there exchange server
02:58<Rob>i dont pay a penny and exchange syncing works just fine
02:58<kake26>I know but the premium is nice
02:58<Rob>why? :)
02:58<Rob>everything works without it :)
02:58<Rob>such as? :)
02:58<erikh>not being surprised when they change the plan?
02:58<Talman>Last I checked, exchange emulation was part of premium.
02:59<Rob>it works just fine without premium
02:59<Talman>So where is it?
02:59<Rob>where is what?
02:59<kake26>it winds down to the fact I like having the works and the space
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02:59<kake26>simple as that
02:59<Talman>The exchange emulation. I'm logging into my apps account right now.
02:59<kake26>it exists in the free version
02:59<Rob>look at the instructions for syncing with windows mobile for any old account
03:00<kake26>aware of that
03:00<Rob>just run active sync, point it at and it syncs as if it was exchange
03:01<kake26>as I said I am a perfectionist and love my shiney features
03:01<Talman>Granted, I have a blackberry
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03:02<kake26>blackberrys don't natively do active sync
03:03<Talman>I'm aware.
03:03<kake26>but it's not really a issue
03:04<kake26>as you said earlier
03:04<Talman>Oh, I rmeember this.
03:04<Talman>This was exchange?
03:04<Talman>I used to do this on my Blackjack II.
03:06<Talman>It is sleeping time. Good night.
03:06<kake26>anyone use ubuntu 10.04 yet
03:07<kake26>I wonder if a dist upgrade will work
03:07<erikh>I do
03:07<erikh>and it works, but it did a number on my postfix/dovecot setup
03:07<erikh>other than that, no problems.
03:07<Talman>!library 10.04
03:07<linbot>Talman: 1. Manage Projects with Redmine on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 2. Host Websites with nginx on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 3. Install the Apache 2 Web Server on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) (
03:08<kake26>I think will tempt fate
03:08<Talman>Someone wrote a lucid upgrade guide, you have to do something to fstab lest it won't survive a reboot.
03:08<Talman>Check the library.
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03:09<kake26>lol ok I shall but I like breaking it
03:10<erikh>what's an acceptable I/O rate for most 720's?
03:10<erikh>trying to figure out why I'm, uh, not performing to expectations
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03:13<kake26>rtfming the upgrade now
03:15<kake26>oh this is easy I love instructions
03:15<kake26>actually I could figure it out without them
03:16<erikh>that's about it.
03:17<kake26>directions disagree a bit
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03:26<kake26>praying it works
03:27*amitz received a sudden insight about the antrophomorphism of praying..
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03:41<SelfishMan>the omnia ii has an interesting method for typing on the keyboard
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03:44<kake26>hmm did it work
03:46<erikh>seems so
03:47<kake26>upgrade appears to have worked
03:47<kake26>lets test the system
03:48<kake26>yep it worked
03:48<kake26>system is fine
03:48-!-azaghal_ [~azaghal@] has joined #linode
03:51*kake26 sigh of relief
03:51-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
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03:52*HedgeMage peeks in
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03:54<kake26>hi hedgemage
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03:56<kake26>server upgrades are hazardus
03:57<kake26>worked though thank a higher power
04:00<kake26>don't use it for much though
04:01<kake26>just alt mail server and such
04:02<HedgeMage>I need a harem: one to rub my feet, one I can lean on and cuddle, and one to document this code so I don't have to.
04:03<HedgeMage>Of course, then I'd need a bigger bed :o
04:04<kake26>I have a theory
04:04<kake26>up scripted
04:04*HedgeMage waits to hear kake26's theory
04:05<kake26>mikegrb running a script
04:05<kake26>that's funny
04:05<kake26>okay well a theory
04:06<kake26>4 am
04:06<kake26>to caffeinated
04:07<kake26>so Hedgemage what sort of code you documenting
04:07<kake26>I wish I had more time to code
04:08<HedgeMage>kake26: cleaning up some custom Drupal modules I took over from another developer for a client.
04:08<HedgeMage>The code is CRAP and it makes my head hurt.
04:08<HedgeMage>I'm re-organizing some of it as I go, but mostly right now I'm documenting what's going on so I can refactor later (with some idea what my refactoring will effect)
04:10<kake26>oh I see
04:10<kake26>I don't like cmses
04:10<erikh>everyone else's code is crap
04:10<erikh>you learn that sooner or later
04:10<HedgeMage>kake26: I'm getting the idea that this 1800+ lines of crap can be replaced with approximately 60 or 70 lines of good code, and judicious use of existing modules.
04:11<HedgeMage>People need to not re-invent the farknig wheel.
04:11<HedgeMage>kake26: meh, I used to do other friends said I went soft. I asked them what their cubicles looked like and pointed out that I was working poolside on my laptop, watching my kid play.
04:11<HedgeMage>kake26: Drupal work has its benefits :)
04:12<kake26>hehe, wow that is refreshing view
04:12<kake26>so unlike the customers I talk to daily
04:14<kake26>I do web hosting tech support via the phone. yeah I am a phone monkey
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04:14<kake26>wears me out every day that leaves little time to code
04:14<kake26>don't get me wrong I love php but most cms systems are horrible
04:15<HedgeMage>Drupal is actually really good as CMSes go... nothing like working with geeklog, joomla, etc.
04:15<kake26>well it's better to a point
04:16<kake26>I have gotten way to used to wordpress though
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04:17<kake26>well it's not a cms per say though
04:17<HedgeMage>WP is great if you are building a fairly simple's a one-hit wonder. Try to do other crazy things with it (build a CRM system, build a complex storefront, etc etc) and it's like trying to stretch a catskin over a mule. Nothing will make it fit, let alone pretty.
04:17<kake26>I would rather code my own
04:17<kake26>I could prably do that in my sleep
04:18<HedgeMage>The problem with doing your own is that then you have to maintain it on your own
04:18<kake26>yeah true
04:18<kake26>drupal is a pain in my side
04:19<kake26>jaws is much more the way I like my cmses
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04:20<narl>is there any advantage to using xfs as the main partition format instead of ext3 (Newbie question!)
04:21<kake26>not sure
04:21<kake26>but ext3 is tried and true
04:21<kake26>really good and resillent
04:22<kake26>dunno much about xfs sorry narl
04:23<narl>thanks though for the info. Other newbie question: w 540 Ram, is it better to use 32bit or 64 bit os?
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04:24<kake26>does the cpu support 64 bit
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04:25<kake26>I tend to use 64 bit when possible because using 32 bit on a 64 bit cpu is a waste
04:25-!-jmulder [] has joined #linode
04:28<kake26>it's also not a matter of ram
04:30<kake26>oooo morge sceen
04:30-!-narl [] has quit [Quit: narl]
04:30<kake26>love this old show
04:34<kake26>okay I am outta here
04:34<kake26>bye folks
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04:51<encode>gah, narl is gone already
04:52<encode>for the sake of others, using 64 bit for the sake of using 64 bit is a waste of ram
04:53<encode>unless you run a 64 bit only app, or have a linode with more than 4gb of ram, there's no point
04:54<Rob>or unless you're running something that is number crunching
04:54<Rob>but then that would likley mean you have a shit ton of ram
04:55<encode>number crunching and VPS' don't really mix
04:55<Rob>no no they dont
04:55<BBHoss>thats not entirely true
04:56<BBHoss>64 bit has a few more advantages
04:56<BBHoss>like increasing process limits and some other things
04:56<encode>BBHoss: yes, but it comes at the expense of additional ram usage
04:56<encode>which is a valuable commoditity on a linode 540
04:58<Tiven>so 64bit is pretty much useless on a vps, you say?
04:59<Rob>i think the point is, using 64bit just because you can isnt always the most sensilbe thing to do on a vps
04:59<Rob>your use of it should be looked at as it may very well cause more problems than you think it will solve
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06:37<amitz>megatron27: I'm trying to decide the amount of money to give to a marrying friend..
06:37<megatron27>I usually give 50 bucks.
06:38<amitz>bucks as in USD?
06:39<megatron27>no no MYR
06:39<amitz>and really in USD instead of the equivalent?
06:40<amitz>this is one is a bit problematic, a chinese who lives in java so they may be bound to both culture.
06:41<amitz>3 is bad number for javanese, 4 is bad number for chinese. Unfortunately around 30USD to 40USD is the sweet spot for coming as 2 people.
06:43<amitz>so either I give 20USD or 50USD. Too little or too steep. It will be the IDR equivalent but nowdays the 100,000 IDR is roughly 10 USD. And giving half of a 100,000 IDR may be considered to picky.
06:43<megatron27>wow that's a lot
06:44<megatron27>are you close to this guy
06:45<megatron27>even if the person is my close friend
06:45<megatron27>I don't make enough to justify giving that much
06:47<amitz>well, that seems to be the standard, at least when I opened the gifts they gave to my wedding. I'm not close to him, that's why I don't know how superstitious he is.
06:48<megatron27>this is what I usually do
06:48<megatron27>I shake hands with the parents and give the money then and there
06:48<megatron27>I don't put my name on the envelope
06:48<megatron27>even 15 USD is quite a lot IMHO
06:48<megatron27>unless you're really rich
06:48<amitz>well, I'd guess many people don't make enough to justify giving that much too but they kind of forced their ownselves anyway. Bad habit IMHO.
06:50<megatron27>I once gave 30 USD
06:50<megatron27>but he was a close friend of mine
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06:50<megatron27>oh, for relatives it's different of course
06:51<amitz>oh, here you usually put the envelope into the box. It's a bit weird to give it directly to the parents or the bride/groom.
06:51<amitz>at least IMO.
06:51<megatron27>the thing is, they usually a set place for gifts
06:51<megatron27>but not for money
06:52<amitz>oh here, they have a set place for money. And no place for gift, most of the time.
06:53<amitz>it's considered nicer to give money instead of stuff.
06:53<megatron27>yeah, I agree
06:54<amitz>and yeah, relatives can command a big amount of money :-p. I wish I'm the youngest in my generation ;-)
06:55<tofufish>Wait, 30USD as in $30?
06:56<tofufish>I would of thought $100AUD~ would be alright for a wedding gift
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07:02<Clorith>Hmm, what is it called when a link like wmp://blablabla opens windows media player and the likes ?
07:03-!-chriso [~chriso@] has quit []
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07:04<Clorith>wmv:// even
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07:09<amitz>tofufish: different economic power ;-)
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07:10<tofufish>$21 AUD for a linode each month, how often do your friend get married ;)
07:10<megatron27>30 USD is quite a lot in my book
07:11<megatron27>it's the thought that counts
07:11<Clorith>I would love a linode as a wedding gift :3
07:11<megatron27>and whether the bride/groom have any hot siblings :D
07:11<tofufish>Yeah I know what you mean, but $15 is like 'Congrats, go buy a cheeseburger for you and your new wife'
07:12<amitz>it's quite a lot too in my book. The consideration is I come as 2 people, and usually people will be glad if gifts cover the wedding cost. And his wedding cost is roughly US$10-20 per person, depending on the food.
07:12<megatron27>amitz, sit down dinner or buffet?
07:12<megatron27>10-20 a person?
07:12<megatron27>for a buffet?
07:12<amitz>it can be implied from the wedding location.
07:13<megatron27>but is it the reception
07:13<Clorith>megatron27: at bufets people don't eat as much as they can because they are afraid of what people might think if thye eat much
07:13<Clorith>so it's cheaper with a buffet then a sit down dinner
07:13<amitz>tofufish: US$15 here can buy probably 5 hamburgers ;-)
07:13<megatron27>or or is it the one where people keeping coming and going? you know the staggered one
07:13<amitz>this is one seems to be everybody coming, within 2-3 hours.
07:14<megatron27>for the reception I would give a lot more
07:14<megatron27>but that one I would only give 15 USD
07:14<megatron27>if you're invited for the reception and it's at some fancy hotel
07:14<megatron27>then of course you have to give a lot more
07:14<amitz>the oh, this is for reception. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough..
07:15<megatron27>amitz, it's the one where you have to stay for the entire duration?
07:15<amitz>at a building in one of the most expensive real estate in town...
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07:15<megatron27>amitz, 50 USD it is then
07:15<megatron27>50 USD per person
07:15<megatron27>sounds like a rich family
07:15<amitz>well, I guess I shouldn't have you :-D
07:15<amitz>have asked you :-p
07:16<tofufish>Lucky you didnt ask me then :P
07:16<megatron27>if it's the buffet style where people keep on coming and going
07:16<megatron27>then you don't have to give much
07:16<amitz>Malaysia GDP per capita is higer after all :-p
07:16<amitz>megatron27: you meant where the party can be extended for days, right?
07:16<amitz>tofufish: yes ;-)
07:17<megatron27>amitz, over here, you only invite your closest friends and relatives for the reception
07:17<amitz>perhaps we have some different usage of words.
07:17<megatron27>amitz, unless you're very rich
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07:17<megatron27>amitz, everyone else, you invite to the come and go buffet for a lack of a better term
07:18<megatron27>the come and go buffet is staggered so that not everyone comes at the same time
07:18<megatron27>since there won't be enough places to sit for everyone
07:18<amitz>wifey finish bathing, we're preparing to go that "party"/"reception"/whatever now, we'll continue later. bye all
07:19<megatron27>why do you have to tell us that your wife was bathing
07:19*amitz slaps megatron27 for mentioning that :-p
07:20<amitz>hmm... she said I can still hang out here for now :-D
07:20<megatron27>just give what you can
07:20<tofufish>You must have a very interesting twitter feed, amitz :P
07:20<megatron27>amitz, my brother once attended a wedding
07:21<amitz>tofufish: don't know.. perhaps you need to ask some people here :-p
07:21<megatron27>amitz, where they stated the minimum amount that you have to give in the invitation card
07:21-!-Tiven [] has quit []
07:21<amitz>megatron27: what you mentioned seem to be javanese style of wedding. There is the staggered buffet and there is a reception for family.
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07:22<tofufish>Wow, a minimum amount? That's kinda rude.
07:22<amitz>that's.... interesting, minimum requirement :-D
07:22<megatron27>my parents once attended the wedding where the family insisted that no one give gifts of any kind. They were very wealthy people.
07:23<megatron27>in the states, I heard that the couple getting married would send out a list of things they wanted
07:23<amitz>People here are easily offended. Some people can be offended when asked how many people they plan to bring since it will be sitting party. So sitting party holder must guess.
07:23<amitz>oh, interesting, I heard story about no gift but never invited to one yet.
07:24<tofufish>I didnt realise how strong the AUD is currently till just now
07:24<megatron27>you lucky guys for having a commodity backed currency
07:24<amitz>megatron27: yeah, if I heard correctly, the list of things they wanted is available in local supermarket.
07:24<amitz>umm.. what's a commodity backed currency?
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07:24<amitz>oh, informally. nevermind.
07:25<erikh>amitz: good morning!
07:25<erikh>or evening, I suppose, for you.
07:25<megatron27>the currency of countries that are rich in commodities :Š²
07:25<amitz>good morning mr amitz!
07:25<amitz>oh wait, mr erikh!
07:25<megatron27>I locked myself in a room today.
07:26<megatron27>and got a ton of work done
07:26<amitz>and #linode is your reward ;-)
07:26<megatron27>I need to charge my phone
07:26<megatron27>ROFL -
07:28<megatron27>don't you hate it when you buy a electrical appliance and it uses a plug that is not for your country
07:28<megatron27>here we use those three pin plugs
07:28<tofufish>Where are you?
07:28<erikh>highland ~% sudo gem install rails RedCloth dated_version vlad fastercsv haml relevance-rcov rspec cucumber mongrel exception_string analogger json Selenium rmagick uuidtools
07:28<amitz>that's what happen when you buy from black market ;-)
07:28*erikh taps his foot
07:29<tofufish>I think all appliances have to be sold with an Australia plug here
07:29<tofufish>atleast in retail stores etc
07:29<megatron27>tofufish, I wish they enforced that here
07:29<megatron27>nobody seems to care about here
07:30<amitz>erikh: don't know ruby need that many features and they're not available by default...
07:30<erikh>amitz: this is for an app I'm working on
07:31<erikh>and... really, perl programs (especially in-house ones) dwarf this
07:31-!-erikh [] has left #linode [WeeChat]
07:31<megatron27>he would've spent 20 years in jail
07:31-!-erikh [] has joined #linode
07:31<megatron27>but she looks 25 IMHO
07:32<megatron27>what sort of moron would think that she's underage
07:33<megatron27>erikh, true man
07:33<megatron27>whatever I write program it has dozens of dependencies
07:33<megatron27>I'm not paid to reinvent the wheel
07:33<erikh>yep :)
07:34<megatron27>whenever I write a program***
07:34<amitz>I'm out
07:34<megatron27>the very first program I wrote for my company was 8.2 MB large
07:34<megatron27>amitz, bye
07:34<megatron27>the COO at the time used to develop systems in assembly language
07:34<megatron27>so he asked me why it was so big
07:34<megatron27>so I tried to explain to him that I had to bundle the JVM into the installer
07:35<megatron27>and he was shocked
07:35<megatron27>then I started bitching about how assembly language programmers are unproductive because they have to manage memory by themselves
07:35<megatron27>that when he bitchslapped me
07:35<megatron27>by explaining to me how an ASM programmer can be fairly productive with the help of macros
07:35<megatron27>this guy is 40+
07:36<megatron27>so it hurt
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07:47<Clorith>ok so Iron Man 2 this evening
07:47<Clorith>this'll be fun
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08:08<goose>Perihelion Perihelion Perihelion! <3
08:08<goose>Hi :)
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09:09*goose tries offering Perihelion a cookie
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09:42<amitz>Clorith: so... is IronMan 2 any good?
09:43-!-jake [] has joined #linode
09:43<amitz>oops, wrong time offset
09:43<goose>not sure. I wanna go see, it though. perhaps next weekend when I have time.
09:44<amitz>I will probably see it for completeness since I already watched the 1st.
09:46<BarkerJr>I'm gonna wait for the dvd rental
09:46<BarkerJr>was disapointed with the first one
09:47<amitz>not as engaging as the last batman but enough entertainment IMO.
09:47<amitz>for me/.
09:47<A-KO>I liked the first one
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09:59<BarkerJr>right, but when I go to the movies to see a movie, I expect it to be at least as good as the last batman
10:03<amitz>well, my heuristic is basically averaging the critics and users rating of yahoo movies. At least an average of B should be achieved, or one of the rating is A.
10:05<HoopyCat>people who liked #linode also liked: breakin' 2: electric boogaloo, manos: hands of fate, star trek iv: the voyage home
10:05<linbot>admiral, there be xens here!
10:06<amitz>and secretly like care bears.
10:08<JshWright>does the Linode ubuntu image include ufw by default?
10:08-!-jeremyb [~jsb@] has joined #linode
10:10-!-eleshar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:11<@irgeek>JshWright: No.
10:11<Pistos>Trying to register on the forums, but it just loops on the username/pass popup. What to do? :)
10:12<HoopyCat>Pistos: what's the username/password prompt say?
10:13<Pistos>HoopyCat: What a concept. Reading text. :)
10:13*Pistos slinks away.
10:14<Pistos>Still think that should be a FAQ. ;)
10:15<jeremyb>anyone know if it's possible to use something like openvz inside a linode? i want to isolate some parts from others but don't yet have a need for multiple linodes
10:15<@irgeek>As far as I know, openvz requires kernel extensions.
10:16<@irgeek>At the very least you'd need to run your own kernel under pv-grub, but I'm not certain if it's possible.
10:16<HoopyCat>Pistos: for what it's worth, i wasn't being snarky; i know the pastebin is "no"/"spam", but i forget what the forum have :-)
10:17<HoopyCat>Pistos: (it sure beats captcha)
10:17-!-RiverRat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:17<Pistos>HoopyCat: I didn't take offense. :) And yeah, pretty clever, I like it.
10:17<HoopyCat>jeremyb: i've heard reports of at least one person doing it
10:18-!-tant [~c0a89260@] has joined #linode
10:18*jeremyb googles up pv-grub
10:18<HoopyCat>!library pvgrub
10:18<linbot>HoopyCat: 1. Running Custom Kernels with PV-GRUB (
10:18<JshWright>irgeek: thanks
10:18<HoopyCat>jeremyb: ^--- everything you need to know, +/- the unknown stuff
10:21-!-tant9 [~tant@] has joined #linode
10:22<jeremyb>HoopyCat: what is the PV in pv-grub?
10:22<HoopyCat>jeremyb: paravirtualization
10:22<tant9>hi all do some Customer Service here?
10:23<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
10:23-!-tant [~c0a89260@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:23<HoopyCat>tant9: the folks with ops (@) are employees, the rest of us are merely customers; ask away :-)
10:24<tant9>ok thank you .i want to buy a linode vps but i have some question
10:24*jeremyb will look into this more later
10:24*jeremyb runs away
10:24<jeremyb>(thanks HoopyCat and irgeek)
10:25<Pistos>Guys, I seem to be getting POSTs to /mmonit/collector from some Spanish IP. Anything to be concerned about?
10:25<HoopyCat>jeremyb: np. if it works, write a howto in a blog post or something; i'm curious and lazy :-)
10:25<tant9>dose linde vps have some backup service? like daily backup or weekly backup?
10:25<JshWright>if I want to clone a disk image between two different account I own, I could just open a ticket on both accounts, right?
10:25<HoopyCat>Pistos: hmm, are they at a regular interval?
10:25<Pistos>It's POSTing directly to the IP instead of a domainname.
10:25<@irgeek>There's a backup service in beta testing.
10:25<Pistos>HoopyCat: Yes, every 3 minutes, it looks like.
10:26<Pistos>It's strange because my server is reporting 200, not 404.
10:26<Pistos>So yeah, just wondering if something intentional is going on. :)
10:27<tant9>ok, if i buy a vps,should i join backup testing easily?
10:27<@irgeek>Just open a ticket.
10:27<HoopyCat>Pistos: i suspect the other box is set to send data there... probably more accidental than anything. you can check with hurl or something to make sure it's being handled properly on your end. barring that, it's probably investigation time
10:27<jeremyb>HoopyCat: well i think I probably wouldn't do something like that for production... anyway, i'll let you know what i do (not currently a linode customer, was thinking about slicehost too, and maybe even shared hosting)
10:27<Pistos>HoopyCat: Okay, thanks.
10:27<jeremyb>anyway, /away
10:28<amitz>by opening ticket, you can join the beta backup service easily.
10:28<HoopyCat>jeremyb: you sound like a sane person ;-) laters
10:29<tant9>ok thank you and other question if i want upgrade vps like linode 360 to 540 the old vsp data can be retained?
10:29<HoopyCat>JshWright: i think that would do the trick
10:29<amitz>tant9: yes.
10:29<JshWright>HoopyCat: well, I'm sure it's possible, so I guess it just matters how much Linode likes me
10:29<@irgeek>tant9: Yes. Your Linode gets shut down, migrated to a different host and you boot right back up exactly as it was.
10:30<tant9>ok thank you all
10:30-!-Twayne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:30<HoopyCat>JshWright: the love linode has for you is approx. 0.78 yaakovs
10:31<tant9>ok, I go order and have a nice day all :)
10:31-!-tant9 [~tant@] has quit [Quit: tant9]
10:31<Pistos>HoopyCat: Well, I'm not running any monit anywhere, so I think I'm going to block that IP.
10:33<HoopyCat>Pistos: nod, that works. bonus points for figuring out who is responsible for that IP and notifying them without getting their abuse desk involved :-)
10:33*Pistos will pass on those particular bonus points. ;)
10:33<Pistos>Still wondering why my server is responding 200, though.
10:34<HoopyCat>afk, touring the facilities
10:41<Pistos>Hm, Linode Gentoo doesn't come with iptables.
10:42*Pistos assumes there's no problem installing it.
10:42-!-fcoury [~fcoury@] has joined #linode
10:42<@irgeek>There is not.
10:42<Pistos>irgeek: Thanks. :)
10:43-!-hgurol [] has joined #linode
10:44<hgurol>hey guys, whats the exact php version with ubuntu 10.04 ?
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10:50<@Perihelion>goose !
10:50*goose hugs Perihelion extra big
10:50<@Perihelion>How's you
10:51<goose>Great! :D Halfway through recruit school. How about you?
10:51<goose>We have (more) live fire training on Wednesday/Thursday of this week, and I'll have my camera, so I'll have cool pics for friends (like you) next weekend :D
10:51<@Perihelion>Halfway through the semester I suppose :> so good
10:51<@Perihelion>I like fire :3
10:51<goose>Win sauce! :D
10:52<goose>Me too <3
10:52<goose>Keeps me in the job :p
10:52<goose>I have a few photos of our live burn from last week, but none with me
10:52*goose goes to get them
10:52-!-fcoury [~fcoury@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:55<goose>here's a good one, Perihelion -
10:55<goose>we had fun burning that house down
10:56<@Perihelion>I wanna play with fire
10:56<goose>sadly, we didn't get a chance to take any interior photos of us doing offensive attacks, before the house was gone and we had to let it burn down (what you see in those pics)
10:56<HoopyCat>if you have time to take photos during practice, ur doin it wrong
10:57<goose>lol, not really :p
10:57<HoopyCat>that's what the fire police are for :-)
10:57<goose>the lieutenants take the photos for us
10:59<goose>actually, I am in one of those photos!
10:59<goose>but my face is cut out. the rest of my crew was sitting around, and I was getting bunked up.
10:59<HoopyCat>Inbound International Arrival, April 28, 2010, 11:24 pm, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
10:59<HoopyCat>boy, they're sure fast at posting those updates
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11:01<@Perihelion>man without a face
11:03<goose>that's me :p also the only one on my feet
11:03<goose>How's class?
11:05<amitz>lol, let it be noted that thailand movies are actually entertaining.
11:05<@Perihelion>It's somewhat entertaining I guess
11:05<@Perihelion>It's on firewalls/IDS stuff
11:06<@Perihelion>Which is beneficial, but a little dry at times.
11:07<amitz>Perihelion: oh you saw any? This is actually the first time I see one.
11:08<@Perihelion>Oh, I meant class
11:08<amitz>oh -_-
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11:12*elench has forgotten so much :/
11:12<elench>Does anyone recall offhand how to check if iptables is running, cause ps shows nothing
11:13<maushu>...iptables run?
11:14<elench>o.O start maybe
11:14<elench>but thats not my question
11:17<@jed>elench: netfilter is a part of the kernel
11:17<@jed>it doesn't "run"
11:17<@jed>the iptables command manipulates netfilter in the kernel
11:18<praetorian>depends, might have to check if its loaded if its a module ;)
11:19<@jed>in which case it's still a part of the kernel and in its address space...?
11:19<praetorian>and some distros have a /etc/(init.d|rc.d)/iptables script to load the rules on boot
11:19<praetorian>shh :P
11:20<praetorian>maybe the better answer is --> you can check if iptables is compiled by "zcat /proc/config.gz |grep IPTABLES" .. and if its loaded by lsmod |grep -i iptable
11:21<@jed>or you can type iptables, which checks
11:21-!-mau [~Cookie@] has joined #linode
11:21<@jed>and you are not looking for IPTABLES in the kernel, you're looking for "NF"
11:21<@jed>or netfilter
11:22<praetorian>not CONFIG_IP_NF_IPTABLES?
11:22<elench>jed: ah iptables has changed alot
11:22<@jed>elench: no it hasn't?
11:22<elench>since 5years ago yes I would say it has
11:22<@jed>5 years ago it was ipchains
11:22<praetorian>i'm still waiting for pf on linux
11:22<elench>darnit I am way too rusty
11:23<@jed>well, no, I guess not
11:23<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
11:23<elench>not used slackware since mmm 6 or 7
11:23<@jed>2.6 is fairly old
11:23<elench>mikegrb: yes :P I can't stand bloated ubuntu/debian/fedora
11:23<@jed>2.6.0 came out in '03? man, time flies
11:24<ang>elench: there was no slackware 6
11:24<elench>mmm or was that redhat
11:24*elench memory lost and old age :P
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11:25<@jed>redhat 6 isn't out yet
11:25<elench>redhat not fedora
11:25<@jed>oh, I'm thinking RHEL
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11:25<JshWright>My boss just sent me a link to an open-source project I created, asking if it might be something that would be useful to me...
11:26<elench>oh maybe was slackware 2.X / 3 then
11:26<erikh>I had a copy of redhat 4.2!
11:26<erikh>it was not very awesome.
11:26<elench>I like dredhat and slack back in the day. lightweight and fast even then redhat was already concerned bloated
11:27<praetorian>is there still people using 2.4?
11:27<@jed>praetorian: most consumer routers
11:27<@jed>ipchains and all
11:27<elench>2.0, September 20, 1995 (Linux 1.2.13-2) OMG :/ time flies
11:28-!-maushu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:28<praetorian>true. scary.
11:29<elench>mm my last installation a fewdays after 3.4 October 14, 1997. Wondering if that box is still up.
11:31<@jed>man, I don't even remember what predated ipfwadm in 1.x
11:31<@jed>that was before my linux time
11:32<elench>omg ipfw .. does not help make me feel younger.
11:33<elench>so I gather ipchains is in the bin then.
11:34<@jed>since 2.6, yes
11:35<elench>looks like I need to start relearning everything again :/
11:36<praetorian>what have you been using for the last * years?
11:37<BarkerJr>centos 6 will be wonderful
11:37<elench>doing stuff on windows, bsd, slowaris and taking a back seat
11:38<elench>think last time I really used linux was mmm 8years ago?
11:38<elench>the last co I worked with that had "linux"so a suse ES so :P didn't have to do anything. Yet another suck tool ftw.
11:40-!-mtkoan [] has joined #linode
11:43<BarkerJr>what is a USB Replicator?
11:43-!-Nivex [~kjotte@] has joined #linode
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11:44<tanto>sounds like a usb hub
11:44-!-shimizu [~shimizu@] has joined #linode
11:45<shimizu> Good day!
11:45<amitz>a replicator that works on usb devices only.
11:45<shimizu>I've done weird thing with one of my linodes
11:46<shimizu>upgrade-do to ubuntu lynx
11:46<shimizu>notthing after reboot
11:46<shimizu>no ping
11:47<JshWright>shimizu: what were you upgrading from? (you either need to add a /dev folder, or upgrade your kernel (or both))
11:47<@irgeek>shimizu: - Read that.
11:47<JshWright>(or just read the link irgeek posted, since that will explain it in far more detail)
11:47<shimizu>ubuntu 9.04 to lynx
11:48<JshWright>you can't upgrade 9.04 to 10.04
11:48<@irgeek>shimizu: Specifically, this:
11:48<JshWright>if you upgraded 9.04, you went to Karmic, not Lucid
11:49<shimizu>one second, i have two linode's with the same problem ;)
11:49<shimizu>reading the tutorial
11:49<JshWright>Non-LTS versions can only upgrade to the next sequential version
11:50<JshWright>LTS versions can go either to the next normal version, or the next LTS version
11:50<JshWright>so, the only two versions you can directly upgrade to 10.04 are 8.04 and 9.10
11:50<shimizu>ah, ok
11:53<JshWright>anyone have any experience using byobu with screen?
11:55<shimizu>JshWright: right, i've upgraded from 9.04
11:55<shimizu>JshWright: the procedure is the same ?
11:55<shimizu>JshWright: should I add dev /dev devtmpfs rw 0 0
11:55<JshWright>shimizu: what kernel version are you using?
11:55<shimizu>paravirt latest
11:56<JshWright>to boot 9.10, the only change you need to make (I think) is to use the paravirt kernel
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11:56<DarkBlizz><~ new linode member ^^
11:56<shimizu>JshWright: ok
11:58<shimizu>JshWright: solved, thx :)
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12:03<amitz>< mushroomed linode member
12:04<MaZ->shrooms are bad for your mental health sir
12:05<ware>play WoW on shrooms
12:05<ware>if you can hold your mouth closed and not just stare and drool
12:06<amitz>a failure in word choice :-p
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12:26<linbot>New news from forums: Linode 360 Committed Memory in Performance and Tuning <>
12:31<DarkBlizz>anyone know if the auto-partioner+installer is in the default KUbuntu download?
12:31<DarkBlizz>or is it seperate
12:32<DarkBlizz>I cant remember , but I recall using something that auto-partioned my HD and installed the distro in it
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12:42<goose>I've come up with my next million dollar idea
12:43<goose>I'm going to smash my head against the keyboard until it outputs a perl script that turns dog shit into gold.
12:46<@irgeek>Easier in Python:
12:46<@irgeek>import alchemy
12:46<@irgeek>alchemy.GoldWriter(alchemy.DogShitReader("pile"), "bling")
12:47-!-ziggyovr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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12:49<Pistos>Urk. What's the course of action when you see OpenDNS reporting SERVFAIL for your domain?
12:50<Pistos>AFAIK, I've set up the nameservers right at GoDaddy (NS1.LINODE.COM, etc.)
12:50<@irgeek>Don't use opendns?
12:51<Pistos>irgeek: Recommended alternative?
12:59<Pistos>I think I may have misconfigured DNS. Can anyone else see a problem with ?
12:59<Pistos>It should resolve to .
13:00<linbot>straterra: Host not found.
13:00<HoopyCat>Pistos:, click on CacheCheck or whatever it is
13:00<Pistos>I set up A records and everything...
13:00<Pistos>HoopyCat: Right, and they all say SERVFAIL over there.
13:01<Pistos>Am I supposed to do something with NS Servers under the DNS Manager?
13:01<HoopyCat>Pistos: as yet, doesn't have an SOA record for how long ago did you add it?
13:02<Pistos>Like... a few days ago?
13:02<Pistos>Hm, I guess it helps to get out of Edit mode...
13:02<HoopyCat>Pistos: hmm. from the DNS manager, click the "View zone file" button and pastebin it at
13:02<HoopyCat>oh, yes, that would do it too
13:03<HoopyCat>i don't use edit mode; i just time the regeneration cycles >:-)
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13:06<Pistos>Whoa, really fast propagation!
13:06<Pistos>Thanks, guys. :)
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13:08<BarkerJr>I use fortune cookie "lucky numbers" for entropy
13:09<randallman>think of the machine required to break open the cookies in an assembly line
13:09<randallman>and then OCR read the fortunes
13:09<randallman>just to generate enough entropy for a RSA key :)
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13:54<MTecknology>Could somebody do me a favor? Just tell me if you can open ?
13:54<linbot>Yaakov: [httping] 4 connects, 4 ok, 0.00% failed, round-trip min/avg/max = 227.1/289.5/456.4 ms
13:54<MTecknology>cool :)
13:54<MTecknology>Yaakov: thanks :D
13:54<Pistos>Indeed. :)
13:54<linbot>Pistos: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
13:55<MTecknology>gotta love intelligent bots
13:55<MTecknology>I can go home :D
14:01-!-Pistos [] has left #linode [WeeChat 0.3.2]
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14:11<Talman>Hmm, anyone ever just... shut off ISPConfig?
14:11<hgurol>whats the difference between stable and paravirt kernel, and why should I choose one over the other?
14:13<MaZ->pv kernel has pv-ops in it :V
14:13<mdcollins>thats something i found on the subject
14:14<BarkerJr>good find
14:14<@Perihelion>GOOD EVENING YAAKOV
14:15<hgurol>good enough, thx collins
14:15<erikh>TUNE IN TOKYO
14:15<erikh>what; no ice pirates fans?
14:16<goose>PERIHELLION IS MINE! <3
14:18<linbot>New news from forums: [Ubuntu 10.04] kernel: imklog: Cannot read proc file system in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
14:20<Talman>Question: sftp has is through sshd and has nothing to do with a ftp server?
14:22-!-DarkBlizz [] has quit []
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14:24<Talman>Ok, so I can remove pure-ftpd.
14:24*Talman is removing ispconfig, and reclaiming a bunch of wasted RAM, etc.
14:24*Yaakov steals Talman's reclaimed RAM when he isn't looking.
14:24<Talman>Mai rams. :(
14:24*Perihelion nibbles on Yaakov's disk space
14:24<@Perihelion>OM NOM NOM
14:29<HedgeMage>You guys concern me sometimes.
14:30<+pparadis>She said "That don't confront me,
14:30<+pparadis>Long as I get my money next Friday"
14:30<+pparadis>Now next Friday come I didn't have the rent,
14:30<+pparadis>And out the door I went
14:31<Talman>Hmm, with Ubuntu server, what meta package is required to send emails, but not receive them? Mainly via php mail() call.
14:31<+pparadis>!library exim
14:31<linbot>pparadis: 1. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) ( - 2. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Debian 5 (Lenny) ( - 3. Exim Guides (
14:31<Yaakov>!library LOVE
14:32<+pparadis>!f love
14:32<linbot>pparadis: For more info, go to
14:32<@Perihelion>18:32:26 <linbot> Error: "love" is not a valid command.
14:32<+pparadis>excellent resource, that
14:32<Yaakov>Perihelion: FIX THAT!~
14:33<@Perihelion>I don't know how to !love :(
14:38-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
14:38<Talman>From 360 MB usage to 180.
14:39<@Perihelion>Time to set up my other computer
14:39<@Perihelion>Now with moar Photoshop
14:39<Talman>CS whut?
14:40-!-storrgie [] has joined #linode
14:41<goose>#Linode! My computer doesn't work anymore!
14:41-!-mau [~Cookie@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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14:46-!-azaghal_ is now known as azaghal
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14:49<erikh>pparadis: you can have the bourbon. I'll take the rest
14:49-!-karstensrage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:49<erikh>my lady, she "funny" see
14:50<erikh>yeah, everybody funny. now you funny too.
14:50<linbot>azaghal: Yo momma's so slow, she makes RedHat Network Updates look fast (804:9/4) [omumr]
14:51-!-KHobbits [] has joined #linode
14:51<Nivex>!urmom vote up 804
14:51<linbot>Nivex: Voted up 804 [mruom]
14:52<azaghal>Ah, you can vote as well, eh?
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14:57<@Perihelion>Well that only took like 5 years to log into
14:57-!-Gussy [] has joined #linode
14:58<Gussy>Morning everyone
15:06-!-Gussy [] has quit [Quit: Gussy]
15:09<Talman>Hmm. There's no eth1 on a linode, or is eth0:0 and eth0:1 just the way the tutorial describes it?
15:10<BarkerJr>right, no eth1
15:10<Talman>eth0:0 won't break anything, right? :)
15:10-!-grawity [] has joined #linode
15:11<BarkerJr>afaik eth1 wouldn't work, cause linode only gives you one virtual adapter
15:12<Talman>right. Reset, resetting networks.
15:13<BarkerJr>I always cross my fingers when I restart the network
15:14<Talman>Right, question.
15:14<Talman>eth0:0 -- which address goes there? :1 is the private IP, and eth0 is the public.
15:15<@irgeek>pparadis: It is not "That don't confront me" - that doesn't even make sense.
15:15<Talman>It worked, just threw an error about eth0=eth0 :)
15:15<@irgeek>It is "That don't befront me"
15:15<BarkerJr>eth0 hould be your primary public ip... eth0:0 and eth0:1 could be either
15:15<BarkerJr>how many IPs do you have? :P
15:15<Talman>I'm following the tutorial.
15:16*Talman takes it that the eth0:0 would be for a second public IP?
15:16<BarkerJr>or private ip
15:16<Talman>i.e. eth0, then eth0:0 is your public? Ok.
15:16<BarkerJr>so if you only have one ip, you only need eth0
15:16<@irgeek>Talman: It doesn't matter.
15:17<Talman>I don't understand what you mean, irgeek.
15:17<@irgeek>You can have eth0, eth0:50 & eth0:42 for all the kernel cares.
15:18<Talman>It doesn't like eth0:0, though
15:18<BarkerJr>eth0:foo ?
15:18<@irgeek>If it's barfing on eth0:0, that's a bug in the init scripts.
15:18<Talman>Its giving sig errors, switching to LISH.
15:19<@irgeek>WTF are sig errors?
15:19-!-grawity [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:19<Talman>Me not wanting to spam the channel. Hold on.
15:20<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
15:20<Talman>I'm aware.
15:21<@Perihelion>Oh man that reminds me...I have some shows to catch up on
15:21*Perihelion does so
15:21<@irgeek>Talman: /etc/network/interfaces
15:24<BarkerJr>did you reboot after buying the private ip?
15:25<Talman>Since when do we BUY private IPs?
15:25<Battousai>i paid $0 for my private ip
15:25<BarkerJr>right, buy them for free
15:25<Talman>And yes, the private IP was requested months ago. Just never got around to loading it.
15:25<Talman>So, there's been... about 3 reboots. :)
15:25<ware>ifconfig up
15:26<Talman>up: error fetching interface information: Device not found
15:26<Talman>This is Debian server.
15:26<Talman>Er, Ubuntu.
15:26<Talman>(Same damn thing)
15:26<pokey>not really
15:27<ware>ifconfig eth0:0 up
15:27<BarkerJr>you got one for free? you get what you pay for, cheapskate :P
15:27<@irgeek>Talman: Everything looks fine to me. I'm not sure what the scripts are moaning about there...
15:27<Talman>Just says that it can't assign the address.
15:27<ware>whats dmesg say
15:27<Talman>My current ifconfig shows it up on eth0:1
15:28<ware> ?
15:28<@irgeek>If it's already up, you can't assign it to another interface. :p
15:28<@irgeek>ware: Yes.
15:28<@irgeek>ifconfig eth0:1 down
15:28<ware>you dont mean
15:29<ware>odd subnet
15:29<Talman>Hmm, isn't /etc/init.d/networking supposed to drop interfaces when restarting them?
15:29<ware>change the netmask Talman
15:29<ware>and it will work
15:29<@irgeek>Talman: You told it to start them.
15:29<BarkerJr>no, private network is in linodes
15:30<Talman>Yeah, I'm going to listen to the guy who actually works for Linode, and actually configured the private IP network.
15:30<@irgeek>ware: His netmask is correct and has nothing to do with the problem anyway.
15:30<Talman>I see.
15:30<ware>are there other linode's in that subnet hes trying to get to?
15:31<@irgeek>That's not the problem!
15:31*ware bows out
15:31<Talman>Ok, so /etc/init.d/networking doesn't bring interfaces down when you go "stop?"
15:31<ware>cause i dunno what going on :P
15:31*Talman expected it to, i.e. release eth0 and eth0:1, which is why I'm in LISH.
15:31<BarkerJr>Talman, it only brings them down if they're defined in the config
15:31<@irgeek>Talman: If you take eth0:1 out of the config and then stop networking, the scripts don't know they're managing eth0:1
15:32<Talman>Ok, thanks, irgeek, its up.
15:32<Talman>on eth0.
15:32<Talman>And it bitches that eth0 is already up, with its "you need to know what file exists means to know eth0 is already up" error message
15:32<Talman>Which is fine, since, you know... I didn't alter that configuration.
15:33<@irgeek>Restarting now should work correctly.
15:33<Talman>Do I absolutely have to restart?
15:33<Talman>I brought the interfaces down, then brought them up with etc/init.d/networking start.
15:33<Talman>They came up normally.
15:33<@irgeek>Restarting networking... :P
15:34<Talman>Ok. :) You have no idea how much Ubuntu suggests you restart your entire computer after doing something. :)
15:35*ware hands out internets to Talman and irgeek
15:35<Talman>now to verify that /etc/resolv.conf is actually correct...
15:35<Talman>Question: what does "options rotate" do?
15:36*Talman believes he's never modified his resolv.conf from initial image creation
15:37<@irgeek>It rotates between all of the resolvers in the list instead of always hitting the first.
15:38<@irgeek>And I don't think any of our images have that.
15:38<@irgeek>By default.
15:38<Talman>ah. The library says "put this in." Any idea why?
15:38<BarkerJr>probably the only reason you wouldn't want "options rotate" in there is if you set the first nameserver to localhost and the next two to linode
15:38<Talman>(I thought it meant rotate between nameservers listed)
15:39<@irgeek>It balances the load on the resolvers so you're not always asking the busiest one first.
15:39<Talman>That makes sense.
15:39<Talman>(to both)
15:39<@irgeek>Talman: It does mean that.
15:39<Talman>If everyone's load balancing, then ns1 isn't being raped by every linode.
15:39<@irgeek>ns1 isn't a resolver
15:40<Talman>Its the first nameserver in my list, so I'm caling it ns1 because I'm not typing a full IP.
15:40<@irgeek>And most people don't have options rotate in their resolv.conf
15:40<BarkerJr>you never want one server doing both nameserver and resolver for security reasons
15:40<Peng_>Talman: It's called resolver1. :D (Unless your node is really, really old.)
15:41<Peng_>One or two of the name servers are both authoritative and recursive, and were handed out by DHCP as resolvers in the past.
15:42-!-elfgoh [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:42<Talman>Hmm, old processes left behind by munin when I was running that.
15:42<Talman>I think I do need a reboot. Too much crap to just killall it.
15:43<Peng_>(Not "really, really" old. Just, like, 2008.).)
15:44<BarkerJr>nameserver/resolver combinations open yourself up to dns poisoning
15:51<BarkerJr>I still do it, though
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16:05<randallman>Mulch Sucks :)
16:05<randallman>Just FYI :)
16:06<randallman>especially the shoveling and spreading part :)
16:15-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Quit: walterheck]
16:15<BarkerJr>I'm glad I'm not living the american dream :P
16:15<BarkerJr>that dream is too much work for me
16:20<erikh>randallman: extreme nerd gardening?
16:23<elench>is there no syslog in the linode images?
16:23<randallman>erikh, absolutely not
16:23<randallman>I wish I had a stone yard, like in Phoenix :)
16:24<randallman>my wife picked this place :)
16:24<erikh>say no more.
16:24<erikh>(for your own health :P)
16:24<randallman>it's got too many flower beds and crazy ass bush beds
16:24<BarkerJr>elench: there should be
16:24<randallman>and the bushes have gotten well out of hand... gnarled even
16:24<randallman>azalias the size of... a tree
16:25<elench>seems like no syslog in the slackware images
16:26<@irgeek>Slackware is special.
16:26<@irgeek>There aren't many people using it. A few of the people who do use it gave me the list of packages they wanted.
16:27<elench>ah k, is there a reference anywhere?
16:27<randallman>hey my first linux was slackware ;)
16:27<randallman>I remember manually converting from a.out to ELF
16:27<randallman>on slackware
16:28<elench>I <3 slack always have and always will.
16:28<randallman>shortly thereafter, debian 0.9 beta was out, so I used that
16:28<randallman>err 1.1
16:28<randallman>the one that the install disks were a.out and the installer converted to ELF :P
16:28<elench>don't like debian and all the other favors, RH before RHEL/fedora was ok.
16:29<randallman>to each thier own
16:29<randallman>irgeek seems to like it :) And I respect him :p
16:30<BarkerJr>elench: don't like centos?
16:30<randallman>for servers I really prefer RHEL
16:30<randallman>its just... consistent
16:30<randallman>for building 100's of boxes
16:30<randallman>patching is far less risky with RHEL than many other distros
16:30<@irgeek>That's what I used the last time I built a slackware image
16:32<randallman>there's also a warm feeling, displaced as it may be, that I've paid people who work for a living fixing things to properly QA everything in RHEL - in ADDITION to the community support from fedora core and the linux community at large.
16:32-!-jmulder [] has quit [Quit: jmulder]
16:32<Wolfnix>irgeek: slackware is tricky
16:32-!-SubWolf [~subwolf@] has joined #linode
16:32<Wolfnix>I mean
16:32<@irgeek>It's not too bad.
16:33<Wolfnix>when was the last time the image was updated
16:33<elench>thx irgeek
16:33<Wolfnix>I <3 slackware
16:33<Wolfnix>myself, but not many people do. It is what I started on my first linux desktop.
16:33*SubWolf grins at Wolfnix
16:33<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
16:33<@irgeek>The biggest issue with slackware is there's no dependency tracking, so it's easy to install package B before package A and muck things up.
16:34<BarkerJr>I started with suse before suse was closed
16:34<elench>randallman : I might use RHEL for companies but for myself and SOHOs I recommend slack XD
16:34<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
16:34<Wolfnix>I personally don't use slackware anymore.
16:34<elench>yes get over it :P
16:34<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
16:34<Wolfnix>I use CentOS on my server. Not slackware.
16:35<Wolfnix>Its a script ._.
16:35<elench>:P still needs to get over it.
16:39*Wolfnix passes SubWolf a shot
16:39*SubWolf downs it quickly
16:46-!-Pyromancer [~pyromance@2001:470:899a:0:6ef0:49ff:fe59:2604] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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16:48-!-Pyromancer [~pyromance@2001:470:899a:0:6ef0:49ff:fe59:2604] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:48<elench>omg :/ I am such a noob again.
16:48-!-Pyromancer [~pyromance@2001:470:899a:0:6ef0:49ff:fe59:2604] has joined #linode
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16:55-!-goose is now known as Guest80
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16:56<tanto>what monitoring system do you guys use?
16:57-!-Pyromancer [~pyromance@2001:470:899a:0:6ef0:49ff:fe59:2604] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:57-!-Pyromancer [~pyromance@2001:470:899a:0:6ef0:49ff:fe59:2604] has joined #linode
16:57<elench>it there no recent edition of the linux bible which is oriented to slackware?
16:58-!-humanoid [] has joined #linode
16:58-!-humanoid is now known as Guest81
17:00-!-Guest80 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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17:06<Guest81>any idea why my finnix recovery profile has a kernel panic?
17:08<pygmalion>Guest81: did you make sure to set the initrd in the profile?
17:08-!-goose [] has joined #linode
17:08<Guest81>forgot that.. thanks. just checked it out.
17:08<pygmalion>Guest81: no problem
17:08<pygmalion>anyone familiar with Ruby on Rails?
17:09<tanto>pygmalion: i am
17:09<pygmalion>tanto: I'm querying my database using ActiveRecord in a controller but for some reason it's only returning the id when I actually want the entire row to be saved
17:09<pygmalion>tanto: it's a sort of foreign key situation
17:12-!-nek4life [] has quit [Quit: nek4life]
17:12<bryen_>question: If you transfer data from one node to another in the same datacenter, you're not charged bandwidth. Is ther some internal IP address I'm supposed to use to do that?
17:14-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Quit: walterheck]
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17:15<HoopyCat>bryen_: in the Network tab of the dashboard (if i recall correctly), you can add a private IP on each linode
17:15<HoopyCat>!library private ip
17:15<linbot>HoopyCat: 1. Running PHP under CGI with Apache on CentOS 5 ( - 2. Linux Static IP Configuration ( - 3. Linux System Administration Basics (
17:16<bryen_>grassy arse HoopyCat
17:16<FireSlash>Yay, locked out of my account because my IP changed. I guess I should have updated my email address after all :P
17:16<HoopyCat>bryen_: the second IP above will guide you through the magic once you add the private IP and reboot
17:16<linbot>New news from forums: Web apps hosted on Linodes in General Discussion <>
17:16-!-cpg [] has joined #linode
17:16<tanto>pygmalion: oh sorry i'm not much of a rails developer, still learning and i don't know the answer to that Q. i do know how to install/config rails servers though =)
17:17<cpg>hello, do you know what is the ETA of fedora 12 linodes?
17:17<pygmalion>tanto: haha thanks me too. thanks anyway
17:17<tanto>try #rubyonrails
17:18-!-SubWolf [~subwolf@] has quit [Quit: At this time, there is nothing more to say.]
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17:29<HoopyCat>cpg: there's a project to improve the build system for distro releases; per there should be new images rolling out within the next few weeks
17:33<cpg>saw that HoopyCat .... i see
17:33<cpg>so, even without support it cannot be drive-tested?
17:33<cpg>(i am not sure how .. i guess maybe via netinstall or something?)
17:35<HoopyCat>cpg: well, you can install the older version and upgrade, or install the new version manually
17:35<HoopyCat>!linode custom distro
17:35<HoopyCat>!library custom distro
17:35<linbot>HoopyCat: 1. Running a Custom Linux Distro on a Linode VPS ( - 2. Running Custom Kernels with PV-GRUB ( - 3. Back Up Your MySQL Databases (
17:35<cpg>good point
17:35<cpg>then create an image
17:35<HoopyCat>cpg: link #1 above has the scoop
17:35<BarkerJr>right, you can install centos 5.3 and just run 'yum update' to get to 5.4
17:36<cpg>i have some people interested in that image, so i presume it would not be too hard to share?
17:37<Yaakov>Perihelion: Have you ever seen Dr. Strangelove?
17:38<Yaakov>Oh, you should see it. It's a classic of American film.
17:39<Yaakov>That link up there...
17:39<HoopyCat>cpg: the hard part is ensuring things like the ssh host keys, etc, are properly regenerated on the clones
17:39<BarkerJr>I just use the same keys everywhere
17:39-!-goose [] has quit [Quit: Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me...]
17:41-!-TimothyA [] has left #linode [Leaving.]
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17:43<elench>mmm i still have a old account, debian or gentoo choices choices.
17:52-!-spkitty [] has quit [Quit: spkitty]
17:53-!-phrbarbosa [] has joined #linode
17:54<phrbarbosa>how long does activation of new linode usually takes?
17:55-!-spkitty [] has joined #linode
17:55-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:55<ang>don't recall how long mine took, but it's pretty quick
17:55<BBHoss>phrbarbosa: like 10-15 minutes usually
17:56-!-ware [] has quit [Quit: someone tripped over the power cord...]
17:56<@Perihelion>phrbarbosa: I activated it for you.
17:56-!-saikat [~saikat@] has joined #linode
17:56<phrbarbosa>Perihelion: nice! thanks!
17:57-!-ware [] has joined #linode
17:58<@Perihelion>You're welcome :)
17:59-!-silence [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:01<Wolfnix>Perihelion: mine was instantly activated
18:01<Wolfnix>how was it differnt for someone else?
18:03-!-Intensity [] has joined #linode
18:04<@Perihelion>Some get flagged by the fraud detection system
18:06<Talman>Yakkov: Dr. Strangelove is funny.
18:07<Talman>Phantom hand has a hitler complex.
18:08<Yaakov>DID YOU WATCH IT?
18:08<Talman>I've seen it several times.
18:09<Yaakov>Oh, I was talking to Perihelion.
18:09<linbot>New news from forums: linux upgrade in General Discussion <>
18:09<Yaakov>You just said that as I was typing.
18:09<Talman>And no, I doubt she watched it. :)
18:09-!-ware [] has quit [Quit: trying weechat]
18:10<dKingston>Perihelion: hi
18:11<Talman>dKingston, what do your linodes do?
18:11<dKingston>if only i had one
18:12<Talman>Who the hell is Michele Bachmann, and why is Net Neutrality an evil communist Obama plot again?
18:12<Talman>I don't want to have to pay Qwest extra to get actual broadband speed to my linode.
18:12<Talman>And I don't want Linode having to pay extra money to guarantee bandwidth.
18:12<@Perihelion>Yaakov: Nar I'm doing school stuffs
18:13<@Perihelion>I want this degree :<
18:13<Talman>As much insanity, you should get the degree.
18:13<Talman>I think a 60 year old movie can wait.
18:13<Yaakov>It expires soon.
18:14<Talman>The copyright?
18:14<Yaakov>Talman: 46 years old, thank you very much.
18:15<Yaakov>No, the movie. It expires soon.
18:15<Talman>Old enough.
18:15<Talman>How does a movie expire?
18:15<Talman>Did you give her some kind of limited-time viewing link?
18:15<Yaakov>It just *does*.
18:15<Yaakov>No, the MOVIE expires.
18:15<Yaakov>THE MOVIE
18:15<Yaakov>IT EXPIRES
18:16<Talman>I see.
18:16-!-Twayne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:17<Talman>Not really, but I'm out of taser cartridges.
18:17<linbot>jed: urmom
18:17<@jed>!wolfram C(52,7)
18:17<linbot>jed: urmom
18:17<@jed>!help wolfram
18:17<linbot>jed: (wolfram <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "newercalc $*".
18:18<Talman>Maybe it just doesn't like you?
18:18-!-kassah_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:18<@jed>no, it's broken
18:18<@jed>and I'm looking for who to blame
18:18<@jed>!help newercalc
18:18<linbot>jed: (newercalc <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "web title$nick&q=$*".
18:18<Talman>!newercalc 1+1
18:18<linbot>Talman: urmom
18:18-!-Mezzanine [] has joined #linode
18:19*Yaakov "neutralizes" Talman wuth an AA12 sporting a 32-round drum full of Taser XREP rounds.
18:19<Yaakov>Oops, I emptied the magazine.
18:19<Mezzanine>I went to a machine gun shoot yesterday
18:19<Mezzanine>I got to fire a Barret M84,
18:19<Mezzanine>H&K G36C
18:19<Mezzanine>FN F2000
18:19<Mezzanine>M16 (or some variant)
18:19<Mezzanine>and a PS90 that had been converted to fullauto
18:20*Talman hides behind his car, shoots Yaakov with 9mm, belaying the less lethal option.
18:20<Talman>He shot at me with a shotgun.
18:20<Mezzanine>Anyone happen to know how it works if I turn on a linode instance for a day, then cancel it, in terms of billing?
18:20<Mezzanine>I get billed for 1/30th of the month, roughly?
18:20-!-ware [] has joined #linode
18:20<Talman>I believe so. pro-rated billing.
18:21<Talman>You get refunded, basically, I believe.
18:21<@jed>what's the logic behind wolfram alpha rendering images for its answers?
18:21<@Perihelion>Easy there, Mr. Yaakov
18:21<@jed>is there logic there?
18:21<Mezzanine>that's fine they could even keep the funds on hand
18:21<Mezzanine>because i'll need to do that every so often
18:21<Mezzanine>especially if i keep moving clients over to linode
18:22<Talman>Prevent scripts from parsing the answers?
18:22<Yaakov>Talman: I didn't miss and 32 XREP rounds is going to make returning fire a little problematic.
18:22<@jed>Talman: images have alt text
18:22<Talman>But don't they have an API?
18:22<Talman>That is silly, then.
18:22<Yaakov>Talman: I don't think it will kill you...
18:22<Yaakov>Well, maybe it will.
18:22<Talman>Yaakov, yes, it will.
18:22<Talman>Too much blunt force trauma.
18:22<@jed>cue clip of percy laughing as he doesn't wet the sponge
18:23-!-speedysrv [] has joined #linode
18:24<@jed>I wonder how long it'd take perfect to build a perfect-hash function for C(52,7) (133,784,560) keys
18:25<Yaakov>Actually, I doubt that XREP rounds would cycle the AA-12, so I will just use the fin stablilized HE grenade rounds.
18:25-!-speedysr1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:25<@jed>Timings were done on a 500mhz Pentium with 128meg RAM, and it's actually the number of cursor blinks not seconds.
18:26<Talman>I don't think XREPs will cycle an auto.
18:26-!-TimothyA [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
18:27<Yaakov>They aren't exactly a less-than-lethal option, but they do make a satisfying bang.
18:27<Talman>I prefer 37mm. :)
18:27<Talman>I don't need to spend 200 bucks per round.
18:27<@Perihelion>urmom makes a satisfying bang
18:27<Yaakov>32 HE greandes good out to 200m sounds like some serious firepower.
18:28<Talman>I think that was the whole point of the round. :)
18:28<Talman>You got a designator for that round? I forget it. :(
18:30-!-LordMetroid [] has joined #linode
18:30-!-jamescollins [~jamescoll@] has joined #linode
18:30<HoopyCat>jed: difficult to ensure proper rendering of mathematical markup across all browsers
18:30<Talman>I saw some very interesting shotgun shells, but alas I couldn't get a sample of em.
18:31<Talman>Obviously not HE grenades.
18:31-!-TimothyA [] has joined #linode
18:31<tanto>now is not the time to be talking about that stuff
18:31<tanto>with this whole ny thing
18:31<tanto>you're going to get red flagged =)
18:31<Talman>What "NY" thing?
18:31<Yaakov>tanto: This has nothing at all to do with failed car bombs.
18:32<Talman>Oh, boy, failed car bombs? I thought he meant something new.
18:32<Yaakov>tanto: Really, it's just gun hobby stuff.
18:32<Talman>If we can't talk about shotgun shells, then the terrorists have one.
18:32<Talman>They also won.
18:32<Yaakov>Which one?
18:32<HoopyCat>Talman: the governor appeared at a 2:30am press conference, eight hours after a zomg bomb squad activation
18:32-!-nek4life [] has joined #linode
18:32<Talman>Yeah, I saw that in passing, didn't really care enough to click.
18:33<HoopyCat>Talman: that's impossible unless he was the one who parked the nissan and lit the firecrackers
18:33<Talman>There's too much back-patting and hype to read a news story about a bomb that "almost" went off, its immediately terrorists.
18:34<Talman>Damn it, I'm trying to remember the name of this shotgun shell.
18:34<Yaakov>"Big Ouchie"
18:35<Talman>Its got a plastic round with a liquid core, so its basically a hydrokenetic round from hell. WOn't penetrate walls and stuff, but penetrates you.
18:35<Talman>And hurts.
18:35<HoopyCat>Talman: if it was terrorists, i'm going to sleep a lot better tonight, then i'm going to mail my representatives demanding that funding for counterterrorism be cut
18:35<Yaakov>Well, I think that in deference to those here who do not like firearms, I am going to drop it for now,
18:36<Talman>When I hear "counterterrorism" funding, I think of a fire department that got an underwater bomb robot, and doesn't have an appreciable supply of water for 80 miles.
18:36<Talman>They wanted SCBA gear.
18:36<Yaakov>HoopyCat: It was very poorly conceived and executed. It certainly wasn't done by someone with any real idea of how to make a bomb.
18:36<HoopyCat>Yaakov: exactly
18:36<Talman>So, what, some idiot wired himself a DIY bomb in his car?
18:36<Yaakov>I support the lone nitwit theory.
18:36<Nivex>Terrorists won years ago.
18:37<Yaakov>Or the "group of nitwits not exceeding three".
18:37<Nivex>land of the free and the home of the brave... HA!
18:37<Talman>>.> I thought AP ammo was illegal?
18:38<HoopyCat>i'd run through a list of what went wrong and how they could have improved their success, but, uhh, i do kinda have some self-preservation instinct left
18:38-!-Alan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:39<Yaakov>What went wrong is that they didn't have sufficient IQ to complete the task. I am guessing they will turn out to be computer repair techs.
18:40<Yaakov>No offense intended to low IQ computer repair techs possibly in this channel.
18:40<Talman>Now you're making me want to read about this.
18:41<Talman>Oh, you're kidding me.
18:42<Talman>They tried to set off "explosives" with fireworks?
18:43-!-Damian [~Damian@] has joined #linode
18:44<@jed>dozens of M-88 firecrackers
18:44<@jed>haha, moron
18:44<Talman>I'm impressed.
18:44<Talman> I'm not really sure how, in any way, that was supposed to detonate either the gasoline or the propane tanks. Someone didn't watch Mythbusters.
18:45<Talman>(Not sure how you detonate EITHER, but, you know)
18:50<Smark>what could be a potential cause of a rsync pausing at a specific file? I've had to Ctrl+C this rync twice now because it takes like 10min on an access_log thats less than a meg
18:51<@jed>is the access_log in use?
18:52<Smark>the site gets little to no traffic, but apache is running yes
18:52<Talman>Can rsync move an open file?
18:52<Talman>well, copy.
18:52<Smark>er, its actuall rdiff-backup, but rync at its core
18:55<@jed>Smark: I've never seen rsync wait for an open file, but it's the most likely explanation
18:55<@jed>and rsync or rdiff-backup might have a knob to twiddle to alter the behavior
18:55<Smark>i'll look into it
18:56<Smark>and I should skip ~/.gnupg/randomseed or whatever right?
18:57-!-akav [] has joined #linode
18:58<akav>Just moved a site over to a new Linode setup and it's extremely unresponsive. My apache processes are showing very high CPU usage :-(
18:58<@caker>akav: check swap usage (free -m)
18:59<@caker>akav: check disk io: vmstat 1
18:59<akav>20 used, 235 free
18:59<@caker>akav: watch those when your site is slow
18:59<akav>those wouldn't really account for the apache processes eating so much CPU though.
19:00<@caker>akav: correct, but swapping or disk thrashing is a usual culprit
19:01<Mezzanine>if you have too many apache processes and it runs into swap, then load will shoot up...
19:01<Mezzanine>but if you're looking at actual cpu, it might not, dunno
19:01<akav>it's only on a 360, so I do have concerns that RAM is maxed out.
19:01<@caker>akav: pastebin a sample of "vmstat 1" when your site is slow, please
19:01<Mezzanine>especially a problem with fat man (httpd) in a small suit (360)
19:02<@caker>akav: my usual suggestion for starting off tuning apache2 (worker): set MaxClients to something in the 10-20 range, and turn off KeepAlives. Restart apache and go from there
19:02<akav>btw caker, are you official support?
19:02<@caker>there is no official support for this stuff - we're unmanaged, but we try to help.
19:02<@mikegrb>mmm cake
19:02<Damian>Mmmm cake
19:02<@caker>but yes, I work at Linode
19:02<straterra>YOU OWN IT
19:02<Mezzanine>aren't you owner/founder or some shit
19:03<randallman>or some shit :P
19:03<Mezzanine>we outed him
19:03<Wolfnix>caker doesn't own linode
19:03<Mezzanine>like tom cruise from the closet
19:04<Wolfnix>caker: <3
19:04<akav>that's right after I clicked on a 2nd page of listings, and it was loading for maybe a minute or more.
19:05<@caker>akav: you have a different problem - cpu looks pretty good
19:05<@caker>akav: what is this serving up? php? python? ruby?
19:06<akav>caker, multiple apache2 processes were spiking to 40 or 50%+ CPU when I looked at top though. It was a bit sporadic however.
19:07<@jed>or fastcgi or something else exotic
19:08<akav>to be honest I'm not even sure yet, perhaps that's where the problem lies. I just moved the site over for my brother. It's running on Zend framework.
19:10-!-arooni [] has joined #linode
19:12<akav>don't see much about mod_php on
19:14<daevien>there's a recall on some children's tylenol / motrin / benadryl btw for any aprents in teh channel (#linode, your one stop news source on a whole random variety of stuff) ;)
19:14<Talman>who set the LAMP stack up?
19:15<BarkerJr>daevien, liquid, right?
19:16<+pparadis>akav: mod_php basically "just works" for most common applications, while other stuff like php/fastcgi with different web servers, etc requires a bit more explaining
19:17<Talman>That's why I wondering if he set the stack up himself, and what distro. Doesn't most distro package managers just setup mod_php?
19:17<@jed>so guys, my laptop is 6.5 GB into swap and I'm running out
19:17<maushu>OH SHI-
19:17<@jed>turns out perfect hashing 65m keys is a bit memory intensive
19:17<Yaakov>SUCKS TO BE YOU
19:17<akav>I used the Linode-provided LAMP script for setup
19:17<akav>Ubuntu 9.10
19:18<@Perihelion>Because jed will use them to divide by 0
19:18<Talman>Ah, the stackscript?
19:18<akav>Talman, yes.
19:18<Yaakov>DID YOU SEE IT?
19:18<Talman>I'm sure someone here knows that, I set my stuff up manually (apt-get apache2, apt-get apache2-mod-php or whatever)
19:19<daevien>BarkerJr: yeah looks to be liquids
19:20<@jed>Read in 62748517 keys
19:20<@jed>perfect.c: Duplicate keys! 28ebbf0795
19:20*jed throws things
19:21<@jed>so who has a linode 14400 I can borrow for a few hours
19:21<encode>jed: i'm sure caker has a few
19:22<@Perihelion>He'll let you borrow it for a month if you give him 800 bucks
19:22<akav>I'm seeing a ksoftirqd process spike too.
19:23<daevien>jed: just swipe caker's credit card next time he walks by and use that
19:24-!-FireSlash [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25<randallman>as staff, I would have assumed you had certain resources available to you such as the temporary use of a linode 14400 :)
19:25<randallman>Just kinda doing a columbo head scratch here :)
19:26<akav>gotta go, still not sure what could be causing this. Looks very sporadic.
19:26<akav>thanks for the help guys.
19:26-!-akav [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:31-!-Twayne [] has joined #linode
19:33-!-hgurol [] has quit [Quit: hgurol]
19:34-!-Redgore [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:37-!-Damian [~Damian@] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
19:41-!-Lee [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:51<Talman>Anyone use the new Visio 2010
19:51-!-LordMetroid [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:51<BarkerJr>I think I use visio 2003 at work
19:56<randallman>2007 here
19:56<Talman>Using it to do crap for a house. 2010 isn't bad, just some things I dislike, like I can't specify the length of a line via dialong prompt. (I haven't figured out how yet, if it even allows you)
19:57-!-synapt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:58<Yaakov>I use OmniGraffle.
19:59<spkitty>omnigraffle is pretty great for what it is
19:59<spkitty>so much better than visio
19:59<Yaakov>Sketchup is a good free option for 3D.
19:59<Yaakov>Visio is often the sledgehammer for a gnat.
20:00<spkitty>yeah i think sketchup sounds like a pretty good program for Talman
20:00<Talman>This is 2d drawings.
20:00<spkitty>no reason you can't do it all in 2D, and it's simple to specify line lengths and such
20:00<Talman>Also, um... I already did most of it. :)
20:00<Yaakov>Talman: You can do 2D if you aren't into the third dimension.
20:00<spkitty>well :/
20:00<Talman>Just wondering if anyone's used the new visio yet.
20:01<Talman>At least I didn't open illustrator. :)
20:01<Yaakov>Illustratior is overused.
20:01<SelfishMan>jed: add more spaces
20:01<SelfishMan>supybot has issues with escaping it properly
20:01<Talman>Of course it is.
20:02<spkitty>oh god illustrator is terrible for cad work
20:02<spkitty>i use it daily, but that's because i spend a lot of time working with vector art
20:02<spkitty>ps CS5 is pretty cool, quicker than CS4 anyway
20:03<Talman>I haven't tried CS5 yet.
20:03<Talman>Stil on CS4.
20:04<BarkerJr>why don't y'all use google docs?
20:04<amitz>or notepad?
20:05<spkitty>i installed CS5 just a few hours ago, i was pleasantly surprised when it only crashed once during the install
20:05<Talman>Google Docs for... what?
20:05<Talman>Vector art?
20:06<Talman>I'll let spkitty answer that.
20:06<HoopyCat>| URMOM |
20:06<Talman>Since I deal more with bitmap art.
20:06-!-TimothyA [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20:06<HoopyCat>use a monospace font and google docs will be fine
20:06-!-bob2 [] has joined #linode
20:07<spkitty>yeah that is not vector art so much
20:07<linbot>Linodes can be migrated between datacenters by simply opening a ticket. Your disk images will be copied intact, but you will be issued a new IP address. Once a migration is configured, it makes a button on the dashboard available for you to start the migration yourself. Migration typically takes about 1-3 minutes per GB.
20:07<BarkerJr>you can export as svg or png
20:07-!-TimothyA [] has joined #linode
20:07<spkitty>BarkerJr: vector art != flowcharts
20:07<BarkerJr>why not?
20:08<BarkerJr>what's the difference?
20:08<BarkerJr>a flowchart is simply shapes with arrows
20:08<amitz>real programmer type the binary of vector art using notepad.
20:09<HoopyCat>real artists use logo
20:09<BarkerJr>graphics are overrated
20:09-!-laser` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:10<Talman>logo the... programming language?
20:10<amitz>if Keith is here, he will agree with BarkerJr.
20:10<spkitty>thank god keith left long ago
20:11*Talman always wondered why we didn't learn LOGO in school, we learned Apple ][e BASIC and how to make graphics on graph paper, then add the values and get the proper pokes.
20:11<Talman>Which meant a week of me playing Rocky's Boots while everyone else struggled, because I'd already learned to do that when I was 8 on my C64.
20:11*deejoe learned a little LOGO on a IIe at camp one summer
20:12<Talman>I loved that Rocky's Boots game.
20:12<Talman>Will this google docs "drawing" accept my wacom tablet? :)
20:12<amitz>spkitty: no, I assimilated him. Prepare for your turn. Resistance is futile.
20:13<Yaakov>We learned FORTRAN, ALGOL and CDC 6600 machine language. But that was in kindergarten.
20:13<spkitty>visual basica here :/
20:14<amitz>spkitty: get off my lawn, grasshopper. :-p
20:14<spkitty>hey i am 25
20:15<Talman>My middle school had Apple IIes, my high school had Macs.
20:15<amitz>still young in my book. shu shu
20:15<Talman>And we weren't allowed to use the macs, they didn't have any programming classes, just 'Computer Lab" where they taught stupid crap like ClarisWorks.
20:15<Yaakov>WE HAD EINIACS
20:16<MarkJ>Wow, I remember learning Logo at school on Apple II's..
20:16<Talman>I actually dropped "Computer Lab" because the teacher was like, "You can't goof off in this class, you can't run any programs, and you know the entire syllabus." They put me in study hall, which was baisically "read whatever you wanted in the library for 50 minutes and we'll give you an A."
20:16<deejoe>my HS had TRS-80 Model IIIs, and WE WERE THANKFUL
20:16<amitz>Yaakov, OTOH, must be moved out from my lawn. He can't move himself.
20:16*amitz hides
20:16<deejoe>UPHILL, BOTH WAYS
20:16<MarkJ>never did get my hands on a TRS-80
20:16<Talman>I played with one.
20:17<Talman>My dad's boss had one, she showed me how they used them in his newspaper to write stories in the field.
20:17-!-v0lksman [] has joined #linode
20:17<Talman>I wasn't impressed, since, you know, 1 col screen or whatever the hell it was.
20:17<deejoe>man, you would never take one of these into the field, I don't hink
20:17<deejoe>that was the Tandy-100 or some such thing
20:17<Talman>The tiny one that ran on batteries?
20:17<deejoe>had an audio coupler on it, I think?
20:17<Talman>Ah. I was... 7?
20:17<Talman>I just got my C64.
20:18<MarkJ>Vic20 was fun
20:18<Talman>TRS-80 is the big one?
20:18<Talman>I had a VIC too in my teens.
20:18<MarkJ>nowhere near as much as RAM as the C64 though!
20:18<Talman>I liked my C64 better.
20:18<Talman>I still keep VICE on my PCs for C64 emulation. I grew up with that.
20:18<Talman>And had a modem when I was... 8.
20:18<Yaakov>Actually, my high school has an NCR Century 100, which used TI Silent 700 thermal printing terminals and gave us access to BASIC. I and my friends, though, had our own computers. IMSAI 8080s, TRS-80s, Commodore PETs...
20:19<Talman>Also, the Google Docs drawing program isn't responsive enough to really use a tablet with. Its losing strokes.
20:20<Talman>Yaakov: Dancing rods sounds sorta like the memory of HAL 9000.
20:21<Yaakov>deejoe: I have one 102 and two 100s.
20:21-!-v0lksman [] has quit []
20:21<Talman>But it take it that the scale is tiny, whereas those were huge.
20:22<deejoe>good ol' NCR
20:22-!-HedgeMage [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20:23<HoopyCat>20:11 [@BreakingNews:23] Update: Times Square car bomb contained 100 pounds of fertilizer incapable of exploding, NYPD says - AP
20:24<HoopyCat>translation: it was full of shit that couldn't work no matter how much technology and money you could throw at it
20:25<HoopyCat>$10 says the perp is a project manager
20:25<deejoe>HoopyCat: well played
20:25<Talman>They whut. :)
20:25<Talman>That's hilarious.
20:26<Talman>So, gasoline and propane were supposed to be a low order explosive to se... where's the fuel oil?
20:26<Talman>I wonder if fertilizer burns.
20:27<Talman>AN type.
20:27<HoopyCat>i'm actually starting to think it mighta just been a soccer mom who accidentally dropped a lit cigarette on the floor on her way home from the home despot
20:36-!-FireSlash [] has joined #linode
20:36-!-LokiLV [] has joined #linode
20:37<Internat>doesnt dessil and fertislizer make a good explosive?
20:38-!-LokiLV [] has quit []
20:39-!-cpg [] has quit [Quit: cpg]
20:41<HoopyCat>yeah, but you can't just throw a bunch of shit in the back of a pathfinder, nestled with a gascan, and then set off some firecrackers; you gotta <redacted>
20:41<HoopyCat>especially keep an eye on the <redacted>, and <redacted>
20:42<Talman>That's fuel oil, yes.
20:42<Talman>You need a low order explosive to detonate ANFO.
20:45<daevien>welcome to talman & hoopy's guide to vacationing in guantanamo
20:45-!-A-KO [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:46<BarkerJr>I'm glad this valuable info is archived on the web forever
20:46<Talman>It already was. :)
20:47<Talman>And there's nothing illegal about knowing how explosives work.
20:47<BarkerJr>I don't agree with the policy
20:47<BarkerJr>but I'm sure the powers that be have their reasons
20:47<Talman>Which policy?
20:47-!-A-KO [] has joined #linode
20:47<BarkerJr>the published irc chat policy
20:47<BarkerJr>it's probably illegal in some states
20:50<Talman>Yeah, that's 403.
20:50<Talman>Also, what's illegal in some states?
20:50<BarkerJr>recording a conversation without consent from all parties
20:50<@Perihelion>It's a public chat...anyone could log it
20:50<Talman>Recording voice is.
20:51<Talman>There are no state or federal laws concerning of data across your own network.
20:51<Talman>Also, afk.
20:52<@Perihelion>The EU has a few, but like I said this is a public chat room where *anyone* can log it
20:52<MaZ->im logging it RIGHT NOW
20:52<@Perihelion>SO AM I
20:52<@Perihelion>There's a difference between things said/spoken in public and things in private, as well.
20:53<@Perihelion>Expectations of privacy and the like
20:53*Perihelion wanders off
20:53<BarkerJr>right, probably that this chat is public makes it ok
20:54<BarkerJr>if it was a 1-on-1 privmsg, it would not be
20:54-!-zack_ [] has joined #linode
20:54<BarkerJr>I guess it's all in "reasonable expectation of privacy"
20:54<BarkerJr>you can't expect anything said in a channel with 300 users in it to be private
20:57<amitz>Mine is below average, please keep it a secret.
20:59<randallman>dude the supreme court would melt if someone attempted to get them to rule over a case of the expectation of privacy on IRC
20:59<randallman>be it in channel, or messaged
20:59<randallman>privately :)
20:59<HoopyCat>20:59 #linode: Total of 314 nicks ("10 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 303 normal");
20:59<randallman>they'd come up with some ridiculous findings and now we'd have IRC takedown notices :)
21:01<BarkerJr>not a whole lot of channels keep full logs with personally-identifying information published to the web for years
21:03<daevien>heh quick ownage there hoopy
21:04<amitz>Well, I'd say the legality of privacy of one-on-one message is more dependent on the fiduciary duty of the receiving end, if any. But ethically, it's just not nice.
21:04<amitz>in IRC.
21:04<BarkerJr>HoopyCat: no IP addresses there
21:04<BarkerJr>thanks for demonstrating my point
21:04<Talman>Since I can't actually view the logs...
21:05<Talman>Are IP addresses stored in the logs?
21:05<daevien>and yes
21:05<HoopyCat>Talman: joins aren't filtered out
21:06<BarkerJr>awesome, this is the facebook generation
21:06<+pparadis>irc logs are public information; anyone could just as easily post their irssi log every day
21:06<+pparadis>at least, irc logs for channels like this
21:06<@Perihelion>How do you know I dont?!!?!??!?!
21:06<daevien>peopel post far more incriminating stuff on facebook :p
21:06<BarkerJr>I don't like my IP published every day
21:07<HoopyCat>Perihelion: they haven't shown up on google yet
21:07<Talman>Ah, that explaines it, Hoopy.
21:07<HoopyCat>anyway, if you're nervous about your IP getting out on IRC, consider tor
21:07<BarkerJr>you have my IP, you can find my home address
21:07<HoopyCat>or /quit, which is much less frustrating
21:07<Talman>BarkerJr, without a court order, how am I finding your address?
21:07<+pparadis>BarkerJr: there are ways to prevent that, but they are entirely the user's responsibility to implement, and of questionable value considering the hassle
21:07<BarkerJr>you just ask an ISP
21:07*amitz wears his trusty tin foil hat while doing rm -rf /
21:07<Talman>You'd need a court order to get them to reply.
21:07<BarkerJr>most ISPs will give out customer data if asked nicely
21:08<+pparadis>that is not my experience
21:08<+pparadis>at all
21:08<BarkerJr>HoopyCat: Tor is nbanned here
21:08<Talman>Indeed. Usually they need a subponea to give out that information.
21:08<daevien>BarkerJr: you've most likely said far more useful information in passing conversatiosn that gathered together, woudl give more info than your ip :p
21:08<+pparadis>Talman: yep
21:08<Talman>Or a search warrant.
21:08<+pparadis>depending on what they want
21:08<Talman>Some will give it, but only if you're a registered law enforcement agency.
21:08<Talman>And can prove that you need it for a legal case, or a matter of life and death. :)
21:08<+pparadis>even then, it's the norm to still require a court order
21:09<Talman>Yeah, the only real circumvention is, "I need this NOW< or someone's going to die."
21:09<BarkerJr>you don't remember that every major phone company in the usa (except qwest) handed over phone logs of all customers without court order a few years back?
21:09<+pparadis>yup, in which case the potential liability kinda shifts
21:09<Talman>But they still want that warrant, they'll just want it retroactively.
21:09-!-jekky [~c0a89261@] has joined #linode
21:09<Talman>To whom, and why?
21:09<+pparadis>BarkerJr: if you're talking about the NSA shenanigans, that's something i'm pretty sure we're all aware of
21:09<BarkerJr>did bush administration ever provide a warrant?
21:10<daevien>BarkerJr: or the fact that by going to googel and punchign in barkerjr i got a whoel page of cotnact info includign an address
21:10<+pparadis>there was questionable legality there
21:10<Yaakov>I asked for pparadis' address and they wouldn't give it to me until I told them it was because I wanted to love him.
21:10<BarkerJr>daevien: yeah, but most folks don't have such a google presence :)
21:10<+pparadis>BarkerJr: i'd be surprised if the NSA viewed your activites as a matter of national security
21:10<daevien>web, skype,mailing address, phone number, etc :p
21:10<BarkerJr>most folks you'd need an IP for it
21:10<BarkerJr>you like my .tel?
21:11*pparadis runs
21:11<amitz>BarkerJr: just an anecdote but you can't find out my house given the IP address I currently use to connect to internet. Not the IP address I'm currently using to IRC though.
21:11<daevien>eh, depends. get an email or nick and you can trace other places it's posted, various sites have more or less info than others. it's nto hard to get info on people generally, an ip isn't of great use for a lto of circumstances
21:11<BarkerJr>anyway, would be simple to not log IP addresses, and they add little or no value to the channel logs
21:12<@caker>I read your email.
21:12<daevien>yeah, your .tel is funky.
21:12<daevien>caler: i take it you've given up on reading mine, you seem to be still awake
21:12<Talman>Also, you're talking about the NSA.
21:12<daevien>er caker
21:12<@Perihelion>I got more infor from whoising your domain than from google :<
21:12<BarkerJr>not sure if I'm gonna renew the .tel... doesn't seem terribly useful
21:12<daevien>peri: his contact me link on his page leads to a whoel page of everything
21:13<daevien>liek he said, most peopel don't go that direction though
21:13<daevien>but you can find otu a lto abtou peopel that dont' do that pretty quickly usually
21:13<Talman>First thing I do with a domain is whois it, then run the listed address through google earth. :)
21:13<amitz>Perihelion: that's just for confirmation, right? You usually just probe our mind?
21:13*pparadis loads his pistol with mind bullets
21:13<BarkerJr>I'm glad I own a PO Box :P
21:14*Perihelion passes the tin foil around
21:14*pparadis nibbles the tinfoil
21:14<@Perihelion>Hope you don't have any fillings...
21:15<@Perihelion>I just killed a few bugs and now I feel bad about it.
21:15<+pparadis>this guy loves tinfoil -->
21:15<@Perihelion>Which is odd.
21:15<daevien>side note: 1800 results for your po box in google :p
21:15<+pparadis>BarkerJr: i think she means real bugs
21:15<+pparadis>the kind that respirate and whatnot
21:15<@Perihelion>The scurrying kind
21:16<+pparadis>i did a double-take too, cause i thought she was talking about editorial stuff or something :)
21:16<amitz>Thank you but no thanks. I wear my own tin foil hat. */me eyes the tin foil hat gift suspiciously*
21:16<+pparadis>i suppose it's still editorial in nature
21:16<@Perihelion>But they're the kind that need to die before they breed
21:16<+pparadis>"rm insect"
21:16<+pparadis>haha "nature"
21:16<+pparadis>i made a funny
21:16<+pparadis>and on the sixth day god issued "git push"
21:17<@Perihelion>Le cry...I just found another one
21:17<+pparadis>put it outside
21:17<+pparadis>where it belongs
21:17<daevien>she might be talkign abotu you pparadis ...
21:17<@Perihelion>No, it looks like a roach thing
21:17<daevien>oh, irgeek then
21:17<@Perihelion>Which given how long this office sat vacant doesn't surprise me
21:18<@Perihelion>Those need to die before they become a problem
21:18<daevien>Perihelion: i'd say soon as you discovered them it'd be a problem
21:18<@Perihelion>Oh it is...I'm mad. Mad bro.
21:18<daevien>i remember finding a giatn water bug of some kind in the Infomart in dallas, i'm liek wtf is that? thing was huge
21:19-!-zack_ [] has quit [Quit: zack_]
21:19<SelfishMan>it was a crab from urmom
21:19<MarkJ>She gave him the crabs?
21:19<@Perihelion>Yo momma's so nasty she pours saltwater down her pants to keep her crabs fresh.
21:19<HoopyCat>daevien: a Free Software Foundation drone looking for GPL violations
21:20<+pparadis>Perihelion: good 1
21:20<daevien>well they say everythign is bigger in texas, but seeing that thing inside a 2nd floor office was a wtf moment my like 3rd day in texas
21:21<@Perihelion>Bah...exterminator can't get here until tomorrow :<
21:21<HoopyCat>the 24-hour safeway has grenades
21:22<HoopyCat>the 24-hour safeway has bug-exterminating grenades
21:22<HoopyCat>... sorry, forgot that we've been running a few different threads here
21:22<MarkJ>I know some of America is gun-mad...
21:23<MarkJ>Can imagine going south to the local Woolies "Bread, milk... oph and shotgun shells"
21:23<HoopyCat>laws and store policies vary from area to area and store to store, but, uhh...
21:25<MarkJ>So they're not in the "Hardware and gardening" aisle?
21:25<HoopyCat>let's put it this way. the shotgun shells tend to not be in the same aisle as the milk, since they don't require refrigeration
21:25<HoopyCat>naw, usually sporting goods
21:26<MarkJ>As long as it's not right next to Toys
21:26<linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Host Web Discussion Forums with FluxBB <> || Manage Web Content with FlatPress <> || Track Bugs and Manage Development with Flyspray on Linux <> || Host Discussion Forums with Vanilla on Linux <
21:27<rob-e-ro1>sometimes their behind the checkout counter ;x
21:27<MarkJ>Flyspray's not too bad
21:28-!-akav [] has joined #linode
21:28<BarkerJr>it's better than trac
21:29<BarkerJr>I prefer bugzilla myself
21:29-!-egoz_ [~Egoz@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:29<BarkerJr>though jira isn't a bad second
21:29<MarkJ>Used it on a big project a few years ago
21:29<@Perihelion>I've never been a fan of bugzilla
21:30*jeremyb is a fan of bugzilla
21:30<MarkJ>and have used Mantis, which can be a little more user-friendly
21:30<akav>Any way to look @ traffic on the web server without installing a full-on web stats package?
21:30<HoopyCat>akav: less /var/log/apache2/access.log (adjusting pathname accordingly)
21:30<jeremyb>can someone tell linbot that IRC doesn't do msgs >512 chars? (including both nicks and some other overhead)
21:31<@Perihelion>If people care enough they can go to the ligrary site :P
21:31<MarkJ>Yaakov have you started a "We love Perihelion" facebook group then?
21:31*HoopyCat fans the flames on Facebook
21:31<akav>HoopyCat, That's just a log of every single connection though. Can't make sense of the volume just scrolling through the full apache log.
21:31<Yaakov>I don't do Facebook.
21:32<HoopyCat>akav: then you're probably going to need to install some sort of web stats package of some sort, or write something that will provide just the data you want
21:32-!-silence [] has joined #linode
21:32-!-kassah_ [] has joined #linode
21:32<akav>HoopyCat, was just hoping for a simple command line utility similar to top but for web traffic.
21:33<path>try munin
21:33<HoopyCat>akav: if you want to know what's going on RIGHT NOW, many web servers have a fistula for current server status
21:33-!-Twayne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<HoopyCat>akav: that said, i usually just tail -f the web server log and watch it out of the corner of my eye
21:34<@Perihelion>I want a fan club :<
21:34<path>for apache, it's http://server/server-status (if the correct module is loaded and ACL is tweaked)
21:34<daevien>akav: iftop or ngrep
21:34<randallman>heh fistula
21:34<randallman>nice metaphor?
21:35<HoopyCat>akav: i wouldn't GIS for fistula, but the medical definition will probably suffice :-)
21:35*HoopyCat should get back to writing this here report
21:37<akav>HoopyCat, doing so now... it's moving!
21:37<linbot>New news from forums: Apache slowing down / stalling in Performance and Tuning <>
21:41-!-nek4life_ [] has joined #linode
21:43<Yaakov>ROMPER ROOM
21:48-!-nek4life [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:48-!-nek4life_ is now known as nek4life
21:58<nek4life>Anyone familiar with uwsgi?
22:00<akav>why are default MaxClients only set to 13?
22:00<akav>by the stackscripts config
22:00<tanto>for low ram environments is my guess
22:00<akav>according to this, normal Apache default is 150:
22:00<akav>that would prob. explain why I'm having issues.
22:00<tanto>raise it to 150 :P
22:00<+pparadis>akav: quite a few of our customers are using linode 360s
22:00<akav>pparadis, umm, myself included!
22:01<akav>perhaps I need to raise that.
22:01<akav>this site is getting pretty high traffic.
22:01<+pparadis>Your Needs May Vary
22:01<amitz>raise it slowly
22:01<tanto>akav: your 360 may choke with 150 simultaneous clients unless you've highly tuned your apache and aren't running php
22:01<amitz>unless you're familiar with what you're doing
22:01<akav>maybe I ought to try a 540 or 720 then.
22:01<amitz>oh, php is heavyweight? I never knew..
22:01<tanto>akav: i'd increase it slowly first
22:01<tanto>like amitz says, and see how that works out for you
22:01<tanto>bump it up to 50
22:02<+pparadis>depends on how you're using php, what script is running, there are a lot of variables
22:02<Talman>What kind of traffic are you getting, akav
22:02<tanto>you should be able to see how many maxclients you have with something like: ps auxw | grep httpd | wc -l
22:02<akav>Talman, that's what I'm trying to figure out actually.
22:02-!-dKingston [] has quit [Quit: Nam et si ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis, non timebo mala, quoniam tu mecum es.]
22:02<Talman>Ah. no previous data?
22:02<bob2>150 on a 720 using would be dumb, too
22:02<tanto>or: ps auxw | grep apache | wc -l
22:02<akav>Talman, just switched to this server last night.
22:03<Talman>I mean what's your traffic on the previous host.
22:03<SelfishMan>+pparadis: people still use PHP?
22:03<akav>tanto, MaxClients was set to 13 in apache.conf
22:03<tanto>akav: you don't use google analytics or anything?
22:03<Talman>That's what I was wondering, tanto.
22:03<akav>I haven't looked at the Google Analytics yet, I'll get that rectified soon. It's not my site.
22:03<+pparadis> <-- might be of interest
22:03<tanto>set up webalizer or awstats
22:03<Talman>How do they know how much traffic they get?
22:03<tanto>awstats is decent
22:03<+pparadis>!library awstats
22:05<+pparadis>!library webalizer
22:05<linbot>pparadis: 1. Analyze Web Traffic with Webalizer on Centos 5 ( - 2. Analyze Web Traffic with Webalizer on Debian 5 (Lenny) ( - 3. Analyze Web Traffic with Webalizer (
22:07<SelfishMan>has Perihelion been screwing with user modes again?
22:07<tanto>awstats has better stats but the configuration is messy imho
22:08*pparadis thinks we have awstats docs in progress
22:08<+pparadis>but webalizer is alright
22:08<tanto>there's a million awstats docs on the web =)
22:08<Talman>Huh, 4 ipads have already visited one of my client's sites.
22:08<BarkerJr>how do you know?
22:08<tanto>if this was customer facing, i'd go with google analytics, or if you want to run your own stats, i'd go with awstats
22:08<+pparadis>Talman: sure, and most of them either suck or are ad-infested to hell and back
22:08<tanto>or mint
22:08<tanto>(but mint is commercial)
22:08<Talman>google analytics.
22:08<+pparadis>i do like google analytics
22:08<BarkerJr>what's the useragent?
22:09<Talman>It just reported under "operating systems" iPad.
22:09<BarkerJr>I don't trust google analytics
22:09<+pparadis>Talman: that was meant for tanto :)
22:09<BarkerJr>they log users and keep the logs forever
22:09<+pparadis>tab complete fail
22:09<BarkerJr>kinda like linode
22:09<tanto>analytics is hot, i've been using it for years
22:09*pparadis hands BarkerJr a new and improved tinfoil hat
22:09<Talman>I was going to say, I'm not sure the ipad is ad-infested YET. :)
22:10<Talman>BarkerJr: I log client interactions with their joomla sites and keep them forever.
22:10*BarkerJr cries
22:10*pparadis logs back and forth forever
22:10<Talman>Every time they login, every time they connect, every time they change something. I log it.
22:10<Talman>Do you know why?
22:10<BarkerJr>I make a point of deleting all my logs every week
22:10<Talman>"My internet is broken>"
22:10<Talman>No, you idiot, your internet is NOT broken. I know because you logged into your website 15 minutes ago.
22:11<+pparadis>i cannot visit the internets are borked
22:11<Talman>I cut a man's email off and told him to find his own provider because he got an IMAP error and refuses to use a real email client.
22:12<Talman>I'm finally tired of stupidity and take steps to prevent it.
22:12<akav>OK, I'm looking at the google analytics now. Oddly it's only showing 122 visits today.
22:12<akav>doesn't sound right.
22:12<Talman>It doesn't show data for today.
22:12<bob2>analytics doesn't show you anything useful in this situation
22:12<Talman>It'll show today's data tomorrow.
22:12<bob2>you don't care about "how many people downloaded the spy js and ran it"
22:12<SelfishMan>BarkerJr: I am logging everything you say and the IP you are saying it from for future reference. Also running passive fingerprinting on your IP to track your OS. Just thought you might want to know.
22:12<bob2>you care about "how many hits to dynamic pages did I get to day"
22:13<SelfishMan>you think I'm joking
22:14<BarkerJr>no, I'm just glad I IRC via my VPS
22:15<BarkerJr>and there's no geoip for ipv6 so you don't know where said VPS is located
22:15<SelfishMan>barkerjr: wrong
22:16<linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Running PHP under CGI with Apache on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) <> || Use Unbound for Local DNS Resolution on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) <>
22:18<Talman>Thought they had a geoip library for ipv6?
22:18<Talman>One thing I need to do is remove the client's IP from analytics.
22:18<Talman>He has every computer in the place set to open IE on start, and load his website on IE open.
22:19<Talman>He opens IE like 20 times a night.
22:19<BarkerJr>I would guess the best you could find is the location of my HE tunnel server
22:19<ware>can we run xen on our xen
22:19<ware>so we can virtualize while we virtualize?
22:19<Talman>>.> Anyone know who Service Provider Corporation is?
22:20<Talman>cellular carrier, supposedly.
22:20<tanto>ware: yeah but your head will explode!
22:21<Yaakov>Talman: ?
22:23-!-BarkerJr [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:24<MTecknology>How many nodes exist on a server?
22:25<daevien>depends on the node size
22:25<MTecknology>err, on a server that hosts 360's
22:25<daevien>abotu 40 for 360
22:26<MTecknology>kinda just random curiousity
22:26<MTecknology>only 14GB RAM for them then..
22:27<maushu>So wait, a 14 is a whole host?
22:27<linbot>New news from forums: script to install cherokee,postfix,dovecot etc. Enjoy! in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
22:28-!-fallemo [~fallemo@] has joined #linode
22:28-!-fallemo [~fallemo@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:28<daevien>can add extra ram to a 360 so there's some extra for that
22:28-!-B1naryG0d [] has joined #linode
22:28-!-B1naryG0d^ [] has joined #linode
22:28-!-B1naryG0d^ [] has quit []
22:29<akav>hmm, say I add 360MB RAM to a 360, that's $20 a month. Do I not get the extra storage, transfer, etc. that goes along with a 720?
22:29<MTecknology>daevien: good point
22:29<+pparadis>while we don't comment on exact details of internal architecture, i can say that speculation is rampant about host capabilities, and usually off the mark
22:29<+pparadis>akav: it's a better deal to just upgrade to the next plan
22:29<daevien>akav: upgrade and you get everythign, thats absically what the extras are priced to do, make you jsut go to the next one
22:30<MTecknology>pparadis: well.. considering the proc available to the guests.. I'm guessing 14GB RAM on a host is VERY low
22:30<akav>pparadis: and how do I do that?
22:30<SelfishMan>akav: if you buy only the extras then you will only get the extra you pay for, nothing more
22:30<+pparadis>akav: resize tab in the linode manager :)
22:30<Yaakov>I happen to know that all machines are 48 core (8 x 6 core) and have 256 GB of RAM.
22:30<MTecknology>pparadis: if I had to take a random guess, I'd go with ~64GB
22:30*pparadis stays quiet about details
22:30<daevien>pparadis: my numebrs are whats ont eh public page, so meh ;)
22:30<rob-e-ro1>thats impressive
22:30<rob-e-ro1>i want to see pictures
22:30<MTecknology>32 sounds low still
22:31<+pparadis>rob-e-ro1: well, these are rackmounts :)
22:31<SelfishMan>MTecknology: how many nodes do you think are on a single host?
22:31<MTecknology>Yaakov: sounds like a fun system to have
22:31<rob-e-ro1>pparadis: blades?
22:31<MTecknology>SelfishMan: I'd guess -
22:31<+pparadis>i sure do love rackmounted servers
22:31<MTecknology>me too
22:32<daevien>pparadis: rack mount servers are cool. LOADING rack moutn server by youself sucks
22:32<SelfishMan>so why would a host have 64GB of RAM if only 14GB is used by guests?
22:32<+pparadis>daevien: agreed
22:32<SelfishMan>do you really think that the xen overhead requires 48GB of RAM?
22:32*pparadis loves watching these conversations
22:33<daevien>pparadis: i once caused myself a minor heartattck by dropping a server i was putting in a rack by myself. i caught it before it hit anything but i actually did have an empty had for a brief moment
22:33<Yaakov>Actually, I was just looking at a new Dell that does 48 cores in 2U.
22:33<daevien>had = hand
22:33<+pparadis>those hands were fast as lightning
22:34<HoopyCat>each linode host is just an extra-large EC2 instance
22:34<+pparadis>it was a little bit frightening
22:34<Yaakov>It uses four blades with dual Intel 6-core CPUs.
22:34<SelfishMan>MTecknology: the hosts have 24GB each and have 5 500GB SATA drives
22:34<daevien>the next day the bosses kid dropped an excel switch worth like 50k, i didn't feel so bad. it actually hit the ground
22:35<daevien>it actually worked was the surprising thing :p
22:35<+pparadis>the switch or the kid after he dropped it?
22:35<SelfishMan>daevien: I've watched people drop $100K piece of hardware from 120 feet
22:36<+pparadis>that's nothing, i've seen video of $1M hardware being dropped from 35K feet
22:36<+pparadis>it was shot in iraq, i believe
22:36<daevien>my father is makign some steel bits out of old sun netra servers for his hot rod :p
22:36<SelfishMan>+pparadis: planes don't count
22:36<Talman>What about smart weapons? :)
22:36<+pparadis>that ^
22:37-!-Harry_Mudd [] has joined #linode
22:37<Talman>"I dropped 1m worth of equipment from 35k feet." You fired JDAM? :)
22:37<+pparadis>daevien: that's nifty, my dad melts down old hard drive platters in his basement and makes custom machine parts out of them
22:37<+pparadis>Talman +1
22:38<Talman>"Request Tomahawk strike on enemy position in building."
22:38<Talman>Son, you want me to fire 1.4 million dollars of ordnance at some guy with a Draganov?
22:38<+pparadis>can't beat specific window accuracy
22:38<daevien>i didn't know what he had for a machine when he todl me what he was doign first. i'm like you're gonan get enough metal out of a machien these days? then he shows me the netras, i'm like yeah ok, real metal in that :p
22:39<daevien>pretty sure it was netra 1400..
22:39<+pparadis>fun stuff -->
22:39<Talman>That's ok, we have new hyperbaric weapons that don't completely level the structure when you shoot them at it.
22:40<Talman>You remember Harpoon, pparadis?
22:40<Talman>There was a mission with the Missouri.
22:40<Talman>I just levelled the Iraq airfields with the main guns.
22:40<Talman>Saved the tomahawks for anything that lived after.
22:40<+pparadis>which wasn't much
22:41<Talman>Air Base launches MIGs.
22:41<Talman>SUPPRESS THE AIRBASE. 5 in gun on target, firing.
22:41<Talman>MIGS incoming!
22:41<Talman>Picket, engage.
22:41<+pparadis>so cute
22:41<Talman>Several people I was playing with were like, "That's not realisitic naval doctrine."
22:41-!-saikat [~saikat@] has quit [Quit: saikat]
22:41<Talman>Why, because shelling a target from 25 miles out is effective?!
22:42<Talman>It wasn't like I had Tomcats to nuke the place from 300 miles out.
22:43<Talman>(Using tac nuke Tomahawks probably would of destabalized the region, no?)
22:43<Yaakov>I always take out the MIGs with TOW missles.
22:43<Talman>T for Tactical?
22:43<Talman>I know the SLAM.
22:44<+pparadis>Tomahawk Land Attack Missile
22:44<Talman>Ah, ok, thought so.
22:44<Talman>>.> Was the T-SLAM a variant?
22:44<+pparadis>and i actually mean TLAM-N earlier :)
22:44<Talman>Ah, I see. :)
22:45<Talman>I could see that traffic in RL.
22:45<Yaakov>I once took out a MIG-29 with a Claymore.
22:45<+pparadis>you're maybe thinking of this -->
22:45<Talman>"The Missouri battle group is under attack from Iraqi air forces. Missouri commander is requesting authorization for TLAM-N."
22:45<Talman>Missouri verifies the flag is not on crack.
22:46<+pparadis>Boeing: bringing peace and prosperity to the world, one tactical weapon at a time :D
22:46<Talman>BTW< was Dan Brown on crack when he suggested that China could use tac nukes with no real reprocussions?
22:46<Talman>After all, who's going to start WWIII over one 1kt weapon.
22:46-!-kassah_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:47<+pparadis>if anyone's gonna go and do that they might as well make it worth their while
22:47<Talman>Honestly, with hyper and hypo barics, what's the point of a tac nuke.
22:47<+pparadis>making sure stuff glows in the dark for a long time?
22:47*pparadis shrugs
22:48<Talman>Nukes as area denial weapons is kinda... I don't know. THat's like cheating.
22:48<+pparadis>hahaha "all's fair"
22:48<Talman>Or something an aggressor would do to an enemy they really, really, don't like.
22:48<+pparadis>big psych impact
22:48<Talman>i.e. "I can see Israel from space now."
22:49<Talman>Wait, let me get this straight. YOu can show a picture to a SLAM-ER and it'll home in on the targer autonomously?
22:49<Talman>"When you get to these coordinates, look for this."
22:49<+pparadis>i'm sure you heard about this -->
22:49<+pparadis>epic lulz
22:50<Talman>Bah, FT requires registration.
22:50<+pparadis>i'm reading it fine from here
22:50<Talman>" articles are only avaible to registered users and subscribers."
22:50<+pparadis>i know why
22:50<Talman>You got it from google news?
22:50<+pparadis>the referral url was from google
22:51<+pparadis>but anyhow, yeah, he's gonna be speaking in new york tomorrow, lulz shall ensue
22:51<Talman>What's the headline again?
22:51<Talman>OH LOL.
22:51<+pparadis>"Iran's leader to seize chance of global platform on sanctions"
22:51<+pparadis>he's been babbling on about how nuclear non-proliferation stuff hasn't worked
22:51<+pparadis>which is like.... WTF?
22:51<Talman>Got it.
22:52<+pparadis>oh and he wants america to diaf
22:52<Talman>Of course.
22:52<+pparadis>but he'll happily come here and talk about how fair iran is
22:52<+pparadis>it's great
22:52<+pparadis>here's one you can get to easily -->
22:53<Talman>Problem with their having a nuclear program is that eventually, "someone" is going to launch a US-made weapon package at them.
22:53-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
22:53<Yaakov>Talman: The "Davy Crockett". Problem with it was that the effective range was less than the kill zone.
22:53<+pparadis>o/ HedgeMage
22:53<HedgeMage>hi, pparadis
22:53<Yaakov>Talman: It was cancelled...
22:53<HoopyCat>pew pew pew
22:53<HedgeMage>what's up?
22:53<Talman>That thing was awesome, Yaakov.
22:53<Talman>Nuclear recoilless rifle round!
22:54<+pparadis>hahaha insert self-pwning here
22:54<Talman>"What should we do after we fire it?"
22:54<randallman>Like those blockbusters
22:54<randallman>launched as a round from a howitzer
22:54<randallman>cant launch it far enough to be outside of the blast radius
22:54<randallman>gotta love it
22:54<+pparadis>it's like a BFG-9000
22:55<Talman>Except you don't die from the BFG.
22:55<+pparadis>well, not if you do it right :)
22:55<Talman>Maybe if our infantry were in radiation-proof armored suits... :)
22:55<+pparadis>trouble is doing it right sometimes
22:55*pparadis dons his lead pants
22:55<+pparadis>golly these things kinda constrict movement a bit
22:55<Talman>Wasn't the Davy Crocket from the 50s, when they had more money than sense?
22:56<HoopyCat>"when they had more money than sense"
22:56<Talman>"But... the range?"
22:56<randallman>HoopyCat, wait - isnt that now? :P
22:56<+pparadis>maybe it was the whole "if the commies are gonna run over our lines imma takin' em out with me!"
22:56<Yaakov>It was actually deployed in Germany for a while.
22:56<HoopyCat>mr. president, we cannot afford a more-money-than-sense gap!
22:57<randallman>Yaakov, my buddy helped guard a depot in belgium
22:57<randallman>with the atrillery nukes
22:57<randallman>back in the 80s
22:57<Talman>For... what pourpose?
22:57<randallman>we 'leased' them to the belgian army
22:57<Talman>purpose, even.
22:57<+pparadis>ummm... "hey don't actually use that"
22:57<Talman>I think it'd be safer to remote detonate those things. :)
22:57<Yaakov>Talman: You mean the deployment? Well, I guess it was to make the Soviets thing we were completely insane.
22:58<Talman>SWEET. American and Israel are behind Al Queda!
22:58<+pparadis>film at 11
22:58<+pparadis>you didn't know?
22:58<randallman>conspiracy theory #1231261
22:58<Talman>Wasn't that in the 80s?\
22:58<randallman>yeah sure ok we were behind funding troops to kill russian invasion of afghanistan
22:58<+pparadis>ol' Mahmoud has been hitting the crack pipe again
22:58<Talman>THERE YOU GO.
22:58<randallman>that's not the same al queda
22:59<+pparadis>we are obviously the great satan as he says
22:59<Talman>(I prefer North Korea's batshittery to Iran's.)
22:59<randallman>well north korea is a joke, so :)
22:59<Talman>I don't see the Iranian President with a platoon of hot chicks who can jump kick togers!
22:59<Talman>... tigers
22:59<+pparadis>randallman: except they actually have nukes now :(
22:59<randallman>seriously, 90% of your insignificant country is DARK
22:59<randallman>Who doesnt really?
23:00<randallman>Pakistan has nukes
23:00<+pparadis>iran hopefully, permanently
23:00<Talman>Yes, but pparadis, CHina has already said, "DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT TILL WE SAY SO."
23:00<randallman>and they dont like us none too much :0
23:00<+pparadis>pakistan likes us okay
23:00<Talman>Pakistan knows what happens if they try to nuke Cypress or India.
23:00<+pparadis>depending on the topic
23:00<randallman>OKAY a best :)
23:00<Talman>India and the US rapes them.
23:00<randallman>err at best
23:00<Talman>They're too busy fighting their own insurgency to care about nuking India.
23:00*pparadis sees the time and rolls home
23:00<randallman>and why noone has snuk a suitcase nuke into the country yet is far beyond me
23:01<randallman>(the US)
23:01<randallman>It seems like it'd be easier than you'd think :)
23:01<Talman>randallman, because its hard to get nuclear material into the country. The question is, why hasn't a nuke shipment been stolen, and then a suitcase nuke assembled from it.
23:01<randallman>or that whole scare about unaccounted for russian nukes/nuclear material
23:02<Talman>Gotta get it in, first.
23:02<Talman>They even admit themselves that they resorted to using [similar weapons] during the war they waged on Iraq.
23:02<Talman>Yes, the US uses hyperbarics.
23:02<Talman>No, its not the same OMG as a nuke.
23:02<randallman>I think most terrorists lack vision
23:02<randallman>I mean seriously, you could basically DESTROY delaware city
23:02<Talman>You don't need to.
23:02<randallman>its a refinery right next to a liquid air factory :)
23:03<Talman>All you need to do is drive an ambulance up to a major hospital and detonate.
23:03<randallman>EVerything you need to make a huge fuel air bomb within about 500 feet of eachother :)
23:03<Talman>EMS just bought it. No cop is gonna let an ambulance near them.
23:03<randallman>sure I guess the nuke is the golden ring so to speak of terrorism
23:03<Talman>There's your terror. Ambulances aren't safe anymore.
23:03<randallman>but there's plenty of tiny terror acts that could be done
23:04<randallman>while the cells flew under the radar
23:04<randallman>so to speak
23:04<HoopyCat>nukes are high risk, low reward
23:04<Talman>Its easier to blow up a mall, then a hospital after it via ambulance.
23:04<randallman>I mean our country is uber vulerable...
23:04<randallman>yet we havent been utterly terrified?
23:04<Talman>By the time you're done, the citizens won't trust EMS.
23:04<amitz>I remember there was a time where only citizens are allowed to join some classes in university..
23:04<randallman>and dont tell me that the DHS is doing its job :)
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23:04<Talman>Would you call 911 if the ambulance is gonna blow you to hell?
23:05<HoopyCat>amitz: ... doesn't take a very long memory
23:06<Talman>There are still aspects of degree programs that need a background check.
23:07<amitz>oh... interesting
23:07<amitz>perhaps they use the silent background check approach instead of explicit rule.
23:08<amitz>HoopyCat: last time, IIRC, I saw one instance on 1996.
23:09<HoopyCat>amitz: i could probably find a few. there are certainly places on both the RIT and U of R campi that handle things of the sort.
23:09<Talman>Most law enforcement "skills" courses are background check and instructor approval.
23:10<Talman>EVOC, firearms, defensive tactics, vehicle patrol, etc.
23:10<Talman>Anything that isn't strictly book learning.
23:10<Talman>St. Petersburg College required a background check to even enroll in their law enforcement program, before day 1.
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23:12<randallman>I had a helluva time getting my sekrit clearance DoD
23:12<randallman>I had a misdemeanor on my record, so I failed the NAC/LAC
23:12<randallman>(of course said clearance is lapsed now)
23:13<amitz>I always wonder how I rate in US in term of background check :-D
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23:13<randallman>if you're not a us citizen, the answer is - you dont
23:14<TimothyA>they don't even dare to background check ME :P
23:14<randallman>Im not sure how the govt deals with forigen nationals having access to protected materials
23:14<TimothyA>they don't have enough ink in the world to print it out
23:14<TimothyA>or the processing power to compute it
23:14<randallman>'That one time at band camp'?
23:14<TimothyA>'Those several times at band camp'
23:16<HoopyCat>"band camp? more like 'that one time at sticking-flute-up-my-margaret-thatcher camp, we played music' camp"
23:18<amitz>randallman: they will stalk you for life, buahahaha
23:22<amitz>randallman: and if you ever leave US land to visit somewhere else, they'll assign bodyguards to accompany if you're high enough in the food chain. All in the name of your protection. <-- this is what I guess will happen.
23:30<Talman>There's some stuff, if I remember correctly, that a unified security clearance system that NATO uses you can get access too.
23:30<Talman>But we have NOFOR for "no Foreign Nationals"
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23:33<Talman>By the time I got my secret, I had a new job, lol. I was 18.
23:33<Talman>GOt my secret, then changed companies a month later.
23:34-!-karstensrage_alt is now known as karstensrage
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23:44<keverw>Hello all.
23:44<keverw>Can i upgrade from 9.10 to 10.04?
23:44<amitz>!library 10.04
23:44<linbot>amitz: 1. Manage Projects with Redmine on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 2. Host Websites with nginx on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 3. Install the Apache 2 Web Server on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) (
23:44<jeremyb>!help library
23:44<linbot>jeremyb: (library <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "web title$nick&q=$*".
23:45<amitz>!library 10.04 upgrade
23:45<linbot>amitz: 1. How to Upgrade to Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 2. Manage Projects with Redmine on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 3. Host Websites with nginx on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) (
23:45*SelfishMan mumbles about being hilighted
23:47*amitz thinks of a way to incorporate the word SelfishMan in all sentences with plausible deniability.
23:47-!-karstensrage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:47<SelfishMan>amitz: I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL
23:48<amitz>sorry you're late. Satan has it.
23:50-!-scojo [] has joined #linode
23:55<linbot>New news from forums: Restore from snapshot failed in Backup Service Beta <>
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---Logclosed Mon May 03 00:00:17 2010