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#linode IRC Logs for 2010-06-27

---Logopened Sun Jun 27 00:00:15 2010
---Daychanged Sun Jun 27 2010
00:00<bob2>doesn't matter in the least
00:00<bob2>make a new vhost block, set the ServerName etc, enjoy
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00:07<ChatLeper>bob2 you mean a file in /etc/apache2/site-available?
00:08<bob2>the thing you need to do is exactly the same whether it is for or for
00:09<bob2>so yes
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00:10<ChatLeper>bob2 oh dear I've crashed apache somehow
00:10<ChatLeper> * Restarting web server apache2 [fail]
00:10<bob2>the logs will tell you what's up
00:12<Hoggs>apache2 -t will tell you if your config is correct
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00:25<ChatLeper>yep apache's working ok
00:26<ChatLeper>but I've set up a file called in /etc/apache2/sites-available/
00:26<ChatLeper>and I've set the DocumentRoot variable to /home/user/public_html
00:27<ChatLeper>but the browser won't relove to that /home/user/public_html dir
00:28<ChatLeper>it'll only resolve to the root directory of the server, or to /srv/www/
00:28<bob2>what does 'resolve' mean in this context to you?
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00:35<bob2>as in it is looking in the wrong dir for files?
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01:08<ChatLeper>bob2 the browser goes to /srv/www/
01:08<ChatLeper>but not /home/user/public_html
01:08<ChatLeper>I have user called herbert
01:08<bob2>it means your config is wrong
01:09<ChatLeper>which file do I need to edit?
01:09<bob2>perhaps /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/ is missing
01:09<bob2>or incorrect
01:09<bob2>have a look, and if you can't figure it out, pastebin it (
01:13<bob2>(it's probably something easy like a typo or you forgot to run a2ensite or reload apache or something)
01:13<ChatLeper>bob2 is demanding a username and pw
01:17<bob2>read the auth box again
01:19<ChatLeper>you mean the bit that says: "The contents of posts here belong to the author posting them. "?
01:20<bob2>the bit that tells you the username and password
01:21<ChatLeper>I don't see that up there
01:23<bob2>up where?
01:23<bob2>safari, chrome and firefox all tell you the username and password in the pop up box that asks for the username and password
01:24<bob2>check the things I mentioned earlier
01:26<ChatLeper>ah right thanks
01:27<ChatLeper>site is already enabled according to a2ensite
01:27<ChatLeper>the pastebin is here
01:28<bob2>restart apachr
01:29<ChatLeper>yep that seems to have done it thanks
01:29<ChatLeper>great thanks. Can't understand why it failed to work earlier.
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02:49<marshall>does linode offer any kind of class C IP service
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03:02<marshall>pparadis: can you explain the significance
03:02<@pparadis>classful internet routing hasn't really been in common use for several years
03:02<@pparadis>is there a more specific question we can help you with?
03:03<marshall>i'm asking about being able to buy IP's that have unique class C
03:03<@pparadis>we don't assign IPs in that manner as a usual course of business. in some cases, we can change an assigned IP address, but we typically ask for a technical reason for doing so.
03:04<marshall>its for SEO purposes
03:05<nisstyre56>how does your ip affect SEO?
03:05<@pparadis>each Linode has one IP address by default, with an additional IP available for $1/month without justification. More IPs beyond that are available, but we do require technical justification for additional IPs.
03:05<@pparadis>SEO does not qualify as technical justification.
03:06<marshall>nisstyre56: has to do with backlinks
03:06<marshall>google devalues backlinks to a page that come from the same class C
03:06<marshall>even if the IP address varies
03:06<@pparadis>for technical justification, there must exist a case where you existing IPs will not work for a given task. the most commonly accepted reason is the need to install commercial SSL certificates, which require a separate IP.
03:07<@pparadis>marshall: i'm going off the "official record" now to reply to that. i've been hosting commercial sites for ten years, and there is virtually no evidence to back up the validity of that oft-touted claim.
03:07*Clorith yawns
03:07<@pparadis>trying to beat google at analyzing the internet is also a losing proposition.
03:07<marshall>pparadis: i do it for a living but thx :)
03:07<@pparadis>no problem :)
03:07<Clorith>you try to beat google for a living?
03:08<@pparadis>i've done just about everything you can possibly think of over the past decade in IT, including search engine optimization.
03:08<marshall>i don't try
03:08<marshall>i do
03:08<@pparadis>anyhow, it's largely academic.
03:08<Clorith>pparadis is OLD =)
03:08<@pparadis>that too ^
03:09<marshall>here's the point
03:09<@pparadis>i'll say this: you may be able to "beat" google over a short-haul timeframe. unfortunately, the results can be catastrophic when you get caught (complete de-indexing, indetermine penalties, etc)
03:10<marshall>backlinks from a site, to a site, with the same IP address
03:10<marshall>are devalued
03:10<marshall>that one is simple
03:10*pparadis doesn't accept that, as he personally operates a few sites now that don't reflect that.
03:10<marshall>the obvious answer then
03:10<@pparadis>anyhow, i'm not going to argue about it.
03:10<marshall>is to get multiple IP addresses
03:10<marshall>but google is too smart for that too
03:11<marshall>as you point out
03:11<marshall>hard to beat google ;)
03:11<@pparadis>they're pretty sharp folks ;)
03:11<marshall>yes, but not as omnipotent as you think
03:11<marshall>or, omniscient rather
03:12<marshall>i know because i beat google
03:12<@pparadis>well, here's the deal. we do have to have technical justification for the issuance of IPs beyond 2.
03:12<marshall>yes, got it
03:12<@pparadis>that's out policy.
03:12<@pparadis>s/out/our/ rather
03:12<marshall>we're past that, doing the off the record chat now :)
03:12<nisstyre56>pparadis: will linode ever offer ipv6 addresses?
03:13<@pparadis>when, i can't make any promises.
03:13<@pparadis>i _really_ look forward to it.
03:13<Clorith>so do I
03:13<@pparadis>the whole internet is going to be forced to move to ipv6
03:13<Clorith>I guess you'll asign a block per node then?
03:13<Clorith>since there's so much to take from after all
03:13<@pparadis>man, with that many addresses, we might as well :) <-- no promises of course ;)
03:13<Clorith>aye, that's what I was thinking
03:13<@pparadis>i mean seriously, it's a ridiculous number
03:13<@pparadis>!f ipv6
03:14<linbot>pparadis: Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) is an Internet Protocol version which is designed to succeed IPv4, the first implementation which is still in dominant use currently. It is an Internet Layer protocol for packet-switched internetworks. The main driving force for the redesign of Internet Protocol is the foreseeable IPv4 address exhaustion. IPv6 was defined in December 1998 by the Internet Engineering Task (1 more message)
03:14<Clorith>hehe, I have hE's iTouch app, it's neat and I have it counting down on my desktop whenever my boss walks past
03:14<Clorith>since he won't let me bug our uplink to start enabling IPv6
03:15<@psandin>pparadis: do you know what time it is?
03:15<Clorith>(hopefully that'll be remedied when we move at the end of the year though)
03:15<@pparadis>i've used their 4to6 gateway, can't wait for native
03:15<@pparadis>psandin: TIME TO MAKE THE DOUGHNUTS! ?
03:15<@psandin>go to bed, sleep is good
03:15<Clorith>4to6 is ok, but it kept picking the wrong route, it gave me that IPv6 tunnel that disallows IRC and they shut down your tunnel if you connect to IRC over it
03:15<@pparadis>psandin: i did a rare thing and took care of some personal stuff today, don't you worry baby, i'll be in the office tomorrow ;)
03:15<Clorith>so using HE's "manual" IPv6 is better in that sense
03:16<Clorith>psandin: sleep is overrated.
03:16<@pparadis>i'll sleep when i'm de[NO CARRIER]
03:16<@psandin>well I guess that's taken care of then
03:16<@pparadis><-- ZOMG HE'S BEEN REINCARNATED!
03:16*pparadis goes to smoke
03:17<Clorith>He's a crazy one, that one!
03:32<Clorith>I see your bomb, and raise a summer.
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03:45<Clorith>What's the option used with make isntall to say which directory to use?
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04:18<ChatLeper>is there a good howto for linode + squid?
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04:26<linbot>New news from forums: Mod_rewrite Support in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
04:34<Clorith>well, this is a setback
04:35<Clorith>I cna't find the code I wrote 3 days ago xD
04:35<Clorith>and I'm about to put it online for live testing xD
04:36<JoeK>ChatLeper: look at the ubuntu knowledge base
04:36<JoeK>it has a pretty good guide
04:36<Clorith>hmm, I wonder
04:36<Clorith>!library squid
04:36<linbot>Clorith: 1. Build Websites with Django, Apache and mod_python on Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid) ( - 2. Build Websites with Django, Apache and mod_python on Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) ( - 3. Build Websites with Django, Apache and mod_python on CentOS 5 (
04:37<Clorith>oooook then
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05:58<Zol>Okay, I've backed up my linode.
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06:14<Zol>If my linode has been compromised and I wish to format it
06:15<Zol>What process should I implement to begin anew again?
06:15<Clorith>shut down, delete your partition and redeply form scratch
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06:49<amitz>finally, connected to the net!
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07:00<azaghal>Zol: Maybe first try figuring out how it got compromised etc.
07:00<Zol>azaghal: Yea, I don't even know where to start.
07:01<azaghal>A good idea would be to backup entire machine as well so you could scan it for custom scripts/binaries etc.
07:03<Zol>azaghal: I managed to back it up
07:03<Zol>azaghal: What logs should I look for?
07:03<azaghal>Anything in /var/log/
07:04<Clorith>Start with what you suspect was the initial entrypoint
07:04<Clorith>was it a website exploit, start in the httpd's log directory
07:07<Zol>gasp! :O "" is trying to break in as we speak!
07:08<DephNet[Paul]>stupid question, can i have different vhosts served by different users by default, or do i need to use something like suexec?
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07:09<Zol>from var/logs/boot
07:10<Zol>aha! I'm not listed in AllowedUsers?
07:10<Zol>How can I add myself?
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07:16<chesty>Zol: grep -i root /etc/ssh/sshd_config
07:16<Zol>PermitRootLogin no - I set that yesterday though.
07:16<Zol>I can login from lish
07:17<chesty>then why are you wondering why you can't login as root?
07:17<Zol>but when I try to login with putty from home I get "Access denied." for every user I have (two, root and my private user account)
07:18<HoeK>IP allocations, is that "rDNS control?"
07:18-!-HoeK is now known as JoeK
07:18<Zol>Though I saw that when I connect from home it says my private user account is not an AllowedUser
07:21<Clorith>Woah, season finale of doctor who, the intro just started, adn I'm already confused beyond compare, haha
07:22<Zol>Jun 27 12:13:16 vps sshd[7265]: User zol from
07:22<Zol> not allowed because not listed in AllowUsers
07:22<Zol>How can I add myself to AllowUsers?
07:24<chesty>grep -A5 AllowUsers /etc/ssh/sshd_config
07:24<Zol>AllowUsers gitosis
07:24<Zol># What ports, IPs and protocols we listen for
07:24<Zol>Port 22
07:24<Zol># Use these options to restrict which interfaces/protocols sshd will bind to
07:24<Zol>Just added my own ip though
07:24<Zol>#ListenAddress ::
07:25<Zol>Not sure if it's correct.
07:27<chesty>AllowUsers zol
07:28<chesty> isn't a user
07:29<Zol>Right. Can't trust google always. :)
07:29<Zol>Do I need to restart anything for the update to work?
07:29<chesty>service ssh restart probably
07:30<Zol>Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key
07:30<Zol>Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key
07:30<chesty>what have you done?
07:30<Zol>:( I just used service ssh restard!
07:31<Zol>Though, yesterday I tried to add the lish ssh keys, but I only generated some ssh keys with sshgen IIRC.
07:31<Zol>I have everything backed up
07:31<Zol>Maybe I should just reformat/remove the linode and add a new one?
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07:43<Clorith>My brilliant mind has finally realised who the woman who knows the Doctors name is!
07:44<Clorith>It IS the doctor :3
07:44<Clorith>at least taht's my deduction xD
07:55<Talman>No, River Song is not the doctor.
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07:59<DephNet[Paul]>Clorith, River is The Doctor's wife, most probably
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08:00<DephNet[Paul]>or, knowing Steven Moffat, and how his mind works, River is The Master
08:03<Clorith>DephNet[Paul]: that's been my thought as well
08:03<Clorith>(the wife that is(
08:03<Clorith>but shit episode is giving me other ideas
08:03<Clorith>I love the ending of this, with the old wedding saying
08:04*amitz hums happily
08:05*Clorith does the same
08:06<DephNet[Paul]>Clorith, i wasnt too impressed with the finale
08:06<Clorith>really? I was quite pleased with it
08:07<Clorith>I still have a strong feeling River is the doctor
08:07<amitz>I'm Zhuge Liang!
08:07<DephNet[Paul]>i think shes either his wife, or The Master
08:07<Clorith>I'm holding a button on it being him still
08:07<DephNet[Paul]>or, if not The Master, another Time Lord/Lady
08:08<Clorith>episode over....NOW!
08:10<Clorith>How could you NOT have liked this episode?
08:10<Clorith>Really...I found it to be magnificent, I loved the way it was executed with the doctor's popping
08:10<Clorith>Yes, I'm trying to discuss it while still keeping it spoiler free xD
08:11<DephNet[Paul]>i liked it, better than ALL of RTD's finale's
08:11<Clorith>although I still liked the previous doctor way better, but this one has grown on me
08:11<DephNet[Paul]>Russell T Davis
08:12<DephNet[Paul]>yeah, same here, Matt Smith is bringing out a more quirky doctor
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08:13<Clorith>Tennant was fantastic
08:13<DephNet[Paul]>i agree
08:13<DephNet[Paul]>i didnt like Eccleston though
08:13<Clorith>he was the first on the new series, wasn't he?
08:13<Clorith>the guy in leather...
08:14<Clorith>yeah, he never did grow on me, he was just bothersome
08:14<DephNet[Paul]>he was a bit meh, in my opinion
08:14-!-gmcharlt [~gmcharlt@] has quit []
08:14<Zol>"/var/log/faillog" [readonly][noeol] 1L, 24024C 1,24024-48047 All"
08:14<Clorith>and no new episodes til ldecember
08:14<Zol>that doesn't look good for the faillog file, right?
08:15<Zol>Someone's tampered with it?
08:15<Clorith>oooh, there are lots of special episodes I haven't seen!
08:15<DephNet[Paul]>Clorith, the Xmas special, December 25th
08:15<Zol>it's filled with "^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@" lines
08:15<Clorith>xmas special, always the intro to the new season, episode 0
08:15<DephNet[Paul]>Clorith, you mean, the 4 from last year
08:16<Clorith>I'm not sure, I'm pretty sure actually
08:16<Clorith>DreamLand is 6 parts
08:16<Clorith>The End Of time, 2 parts, The Infinite Quest and The Waters of Mars
08:16<Clorith>I can't rememebr the quest and water of mars being a title I've seen, nor dream land
08:17<DephNet[Paul]>Dreamland is an animated episode (split into 6 parts)
08:17<Clorith>One called Planet of The Dead as well
08:17<DephNet[Paul]>but, Dreamland is, as far as I am aware, not canon
08:18<Clorith>planet of the dead first then!
08:19<DephNet[Paul]>brb, huge crash
08:19<Talman>Eccleston had no prior knowledge o Doctor Who.
08:20<Talman>Tennant was a rabid fan.
08:20<Clorith>ooooh, female thief, she looks like the Torchwood chick
08:20<Clorith>I am SO disapointed in Torchwood, I was expecting something huge, and then it pops up as a low budget sidestory on bbc 3 =(
08:20<Talman>Smith was not, but has grown into the roll.
08:20<DephNet[Paul]>The Next Doctor, Planet of the Dead, Waters of Mars, the End of Time
08:21<Talman>Torchwood was "Lets see how well can mind rape Jack."
08:21<Talman>Kill off everyone.
08:21<Talman>Supposedly they'll do a series 4. I'm not sure with WHO.
08:21<DephNet[Paul]>thats the order of the 4 specials last year Clorith
08:21<Talman>Gwen and... who?
08:21<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, Seasoon 4 of Torchwood has been confirmed
08:22<Talman>Barrowman keeps saying ... supposedly.
08:22<Clorith>This is a good episode already, hehe
08:22<Talman>Confirmed but with what.
08:22<Talman>Which episode.
08:22<Talman>:has them all.
08:22<Clorith>Planet of the Dead
08:22*Talman uses /me on IRC, too.
08:22<DephNet[Paul]>Barrowman is back, or so it looks like on the front of the WHO mag
08:22<Talman>I guess Alonzo didn't work out.
08:23<Talman>Now I'm curious which one Planet of the Dead is.
08:23<Clorith>it's easter at least
08:24<Talman>I might not have that one. Displeasing.
08:24<Clorith>I'm pretty sure that is the tochwood chick.
08:24<DephNet[Paul]>Easter was The Next Doctor
08:24<Talman>I need to get that one, I only have christmas specials for series 1-4.
08:24<DephNet[Paul]>Late Summer was The Planet of the Dead
08:25<Clorith>I like to ninjavideo it up, that's the flash version, the divx ones are HQ
08:25<Talman>"What is that?
08:25<Talman>Oh, I torrent.
08:25<Clorith>but take longer ot bugger and I'm impatient
08:26<Talman>I have every series on the HD, seems I'm just missing Planet of the Dead and The Next Doctor.
08:26<Talman>I need to have Media Center Master stop eating up my HD downloading DH Confidential, too.
08:26<Clorith>the next doctor isn't on this list =/
08:27<Talman>I saw that one on BBA.
08:27<Talman>BBCA, too.
08:28<Talman>Problem is, DirecTV actually edits the BBCA versions to put their own commercials into the BBCA commercial stream.
08:28<Clorith>haha, he just made sunglasses
08:28<Talman>I had a copy of BBC1's Doctor Who, and then BBCA's, and... BBCA had 5 minutes or so cut.
08:30<Talman>I will have Easter in 12 minutes.
08:30<linbot>New news from forums: Mysql running at 100% randomly in General Discussion <>
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08:42<Zol>I added a user
08:42<Zol>How do I set its password?
08:43<Clorith>errm, a user on what?
08:43<amitz>given limited info, man passwd.
08:44<amitz>I feel quite cool saying that...
08:44<Clorith>woman passwd
08:44<Clorith>I feel integrational
08:45<amitz>I feel... uh..indefferential? :-p
08:46<Clorith>would you feel better if I gave you a hug?
08:46<Zol>ahh, you set it when you adduser.
08:46<linbot>New news from forums: Lighttpd, MySQL, and Low Memory configurations in Performance and Tuning <>
08:46<amitz>I don't need a hug right now. More like the ability to fast forward time..
08:47<Zol>What kind of security settings shoul I set in /etc/ssh/ssh_config on my new ubuntu_10_04?
08:47<Clorith>heh, when your bored, dont' sit poking yoru self with a random needle
08:47<Clorith>aparently you get lots of ugly red dots xD
08:47<Talman>Oh, I've seen this one, this is the one where they get stranded on the planet and stuff.
08:48<Talman>What other easter specials were there?
08:48<Yaakov>Clorith: And infections.
08:48<Clorith>well, and there's that
08:48<amitz>poke it on that same dot. That forces you to limit your usage :-p
08:49<Clorith>double negatives, it'll remove the red dot? =P
08:49<amitz>i love you myself with a great but little love.
08:49<Clorith>I love you all with my great huge love ;)
08:50<amitz>nah, it forces you to wait until the dot is reasonably healed.
08:51<Talman>I think I'm missing only the Next Doctor.
08:52<amitz>damn, just forgot. I need to clean up my facebook for incriminating activities..
08:52<Clorith>Good idea amitz
08:55<amitz>nothing bad as far as a year ago. :-). The conservativeness pays Clorith, unlike a certain someone's twitter account ;-)
08:56-!-genehack` [] has joined #linode
08:56<Clorith>my twitter is full of badness xD
08:58<amitz>clean up before you regret it, seriously ;-)
08:58<Clorith>What is there to regret?
08:58<Clorith>you know, aparet form the "balls" comments xd
08:59<amitz>who knows you may one day need to work someplace where perception of professionalism matters.
08:59<Clorith>That's the beauty of the difference between a personal twitter and work ethics
09:00<Clorith>besides, norway has awesome rules that forbids employers to not employ you basedo n social medias
09:00<amitz>yeah, but their customers can.
09:01-!-genehack [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:01<amitz>which may put you as a bench-warmer, for certain jobs.
09:03-!-grawity [] has joined #linode
09:04<amitz>notice my twitter account has no photograph. That's because I may already have crossed the limit.
09:04<Clorith>by saying "balls" ?
09:05<amitz>no, by implicating some previous customers and employers for certain behaviors.
09:05<Clorith>Ahh, I avoid doing that on twitter and the likes
09:05<Clorith>I jsut bitch at perihelion over msn :3
09:08<amitz>What I wrote anonymously are interesting if I may say so ;-). Too bad I will disavow any knowledge of writing that. Your PC will self-destruct in 5 seconds. Run Clorith, Run!
09:10<Clorith>it actually might destruct
09:10<Clorith>dangerously warm again >_<
09:12-!-mawolf [~mw@] has joined #linode
09:15<Clorith>"I'll jstu step inside this police box, and arrest my self"
09:17-!-rubydiamond [~rubydiamo@] has joined #linode
09:20<linbot>New news from forums: Xen timing wonkyness in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
09:28-!-JoeK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:32-!-ryankan1 [~ryankan1@] has joined #linode
09:39<linbot>Karrde: [mtr] 19 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 38.9ms
09:41-!-ryankan1 [~ryankan1@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:41<Karrde>either my node of dallas268 has gone belly up, I think
09:42<Karrde>I can connect to lish and attach to screen there, but get no response to input
09:44-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
09:44<Karrde>and my connection to the irc server still seems OK, but the irc services have stopped responding
09:45<Karrde>any ops about? do you know if it's dallas268 or me? want a ticket?
09:51<linbot>HoopyCat: Now 20% full (about 9 hours remaining). Last emptied 3 hours ago, last full 3 hours ago after running for 12.3 hours.
09:51<HoopyCat>yay wife who lets me sleep in
09:52<amitz>HoopyCat: sleep in where?
09:54<amitz>what's a basic image cropper in debian?
09:55<HoopyCat>amitz: sleep in until 9:30am
09:56<HoopyCat>amitz: riding crop or row crop?
09:57*amitz doesn't know what those mean but they sound perverse. /me slaps HoopyCat silly.
09:57<Karrde>well my node is better after a reboot :l
09:58<Karrde>Jun 27 04:13:45 lucidchat shutdown[15450]: shutting down for system halt <-- it thinks it went down 6 hours ago!?
09:59<Karrde>I was certainly asleep
10:01-!-rubydiamond [~rubydiamo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:08<Yaakov>I need a really lightweight web proxy, any suggestions?
10:08-!-bartzy [] has joined #linode
10:08<bartzy>Hi, anyone here ?
10:08<HoopyCat>Yaakov: last one i built was a very special-purpose one using twisted
10:09<Yaakov>Well, Comcast's transparent web proxy is being very opaque. It's slow as mud for some reason and is becoming a serious problem.
10:09<Yaakov>So I want to put something on my 'node to work around it for now.
10:10<Yaakov>I can use ssh -D, which I did for testing.
10:10<HoopyCat>Yaakov: -D option to ssh?
10:10<Yaakov>But the problem is I want my wife to use it too.
10:10<Yaakov>I could run squid but that's a tad TOO MUCH.
10:10<Yaakov>I suppose I could run a SOCKS proxy... hrm...
10:11<bartzy>How do you create a mysql cluster/load-balanced setup using linode ? I tried searching but haven't find anything useful..
10:11<bartzy> I guess many linode customers got to a point where 1 mysql server isn't enough. What do you do in that case ? :)
10:11<bartzy>I guess that if I have a master-slave configuration, then I need my application to be aware of this ? Is there anyway for this to be transparent to the application ?
10:12-!-JoeK [] has joined #linode
10:16<Karrde>comcast has a web proxy?
10:16<amitz>god damn, I only want an image cropper...
10:19<HoopyCat>amitz: imagemagick
10:24<HoopyCat>bartzy: replication is pretty normal. as far as transparency goes, i'm not sure if there's an easy way to do that. i want to recall some sort of mysqlproxy, but it's still early and i'm not sure. barring that, i think failover configuration is possible with private IPs (a ticket-worthy endeavour)
10:24<HoopyCat>but then you have two problems instead of one :-)
10:24<bartzy>HoopyCat: But I need to write only to the master - how can I know it's the master if i have a shared IP{ ?
10:26-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
10:27<HoopyCat>bartzy: <--- ha, i wasn't nuts
10:27<JshWright>Yaakov: -g?
10:28<HoopyCat>bartzy: is probably required reading
10:29<bartzy>Hoopcat: 5.5 is unstable right ?
10:29<bartzy>and thanks :)
10:29<HoopyCat>bartzy: replace 5.5 with your version of choice. :-)
10:30<bartzy>HoopyCat: It says that it's in alpha :) Does it mean that production environments right now are doing this @ their own code ?
10:30<HoopyCat>(or, more specifically, if you don't get the version of mysql you love, love the version of mysql you get)
10:30<amitz>HoopyCat: is looking at that. now looking for a documentation on mogrify. man page is thin in detail. -crop geometry. what geometry... heh
10:30<Yaakov>JshWright: I don't want to use ssh, I want something that's really a proxy with auth, etc.
10:31<HoopyCat>bartzy: dunno. i believe master-slave replication is easier from the database system's standpoint, but master-master is probably easier from the application's standpoint.
10:32<bartzy>Yeah but I can't really write to both DBs
10:33<HoopyCat>last time i had occasion to use it, someone else set up the database stuff, and each server in the cluster (a very lightweight app that nonetheless hit the database like a hurricane) had its own mysqld. i just said "wow, that's kinky" and carried about my business and it worked
10:33-!-clanehin [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
10:33-!-clanehin [] has joined #linode
10:34<HoopyCat>bartzy: "you" as in your application? it doesn't have to; that's replication
10:37<HoopyCat>man, i miss that cluster.
10:37*HoopyCat hits it for old times' sake
10:39<HoopyCat>U 2010/06/27 10:37:45.643549 -> x.x.x.x:5060 INVITE SIP/2.0
10:39<HoopyCat>U 2010/06/27 10:37:45.656976 x.x.x.x:5060 -> SIP/2.0 100 Giving a try
10:40<bartzy>HoopyCat: So what's the difference between master-master replication and MySQL Cluster ? Also, isn't it dangerous to write to 2 instances (master-master) ?
10:40<HoopyCat>Nivex: we got bought out by IANA
10:41<Nivex>HoopyCat: hehe
10:41<HoopyCat>Nivex: so it's now known as IANAphone, doo doo do dooo dooo doooo
10:42<HoopyCat>bartzy: cluster uses the NDB backend, which basically turns it into one big server. a write won't be committed until it has been written to all nodes in the cluster. also, you're constrained to the NDB backend (if i recall correctly)
10:43<bartzy>OK - but I read the MySQL proxy provides read-load balancing and not write-load balancing.. and that my app needs to be aware of that
10:43<HoopyCat>bartzy: the master-master replication is just like the binary-log master-slave replication, except bidirectional; there's an offset used for sequence numbers to make it all happy (e.g. if you have 3 servers, server 1 would get sequence numbers 1, 4, 7, server 2 would get 2, 5, 8, server 3 would get 3, 6, 9, and so forth)
10:44<bartzy>what's a sequence number ? :)
10:44<bartzy>sorry for being a noob...
10:47<HoopyCat>bartzy: every write gets a little sticker saying "You're the nth write!" and gets stuffed into a log file. if two writes have the same number, that will suck
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10:47<bartzy>so why anybody would want a master-slave replication if master-master is working fine ? :)
10:47<ooooPssss>hi. anyone running wowza?
10:49<HoopyCat>bartzy: because master-slave is much easier to set up and keep synchronized, especially if you have a lot more reads than writes. one might use master-master for the "core" (2 or 3 servers) and then have slaves off of that to handle reads, referring writes back to the masters
10:51<bartzy>slaves can "refer" writes back to their master ? or should my app know that when writing it should connect to the master ?
10:52<bartzy>Also (and I'm very sorry for bothering you :\ ), Why is it easier to set up and keep synchronized ?
10:52<bss>the app needs to know about the master to write to, or you need to do more dubious tricks like with a federated table
10:52<bartzy>bss, can you explain a bit more about the federated table ?
10:53<HoopyCat>bartzy: master->slave is replication in one direction. master<->master is replication in two directions. thus, twice as much replication to set up and break :-)
10:53<bss>it's a table with metadata that tells it to connect to a server and do the queries there
10:53<amitz>heh, my eyes are a bit crossed..
10:53<bss>HoopyCat is speaking my language
10:53<HoopyCat>bss: which is good, 'cuz i'm doing this from old memories and an article i read in linuxjournal while falling asleep
10:53*bss is the lead on a master-master critical app at $JOB
10:54<bss>master-master is a crapload of work to keep sane
10:54<bss>but it works well when you've tamed the beast :)
10:54<bss>HoopyCat: haha
10:55<HoopyCat>the total pain in ass = x^n, where x is the pain in ass of one instance and n is the number of instances
10:55<Zol>The password for sudo, is it the password I set for the user when I created it?
10:55-!-hercynium [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:55<Zol>or the password for root?
10:55<bss>bartzy: master->slave is simpler because you don't need to set up replication cycles or anything, the master doesn't need to know about the other nodes
10:55<bss>(aside from passwords and firewall rules of course)
10:55<HoopyCat>Zol: it is your password for the user you are logged in as, e.g. if you're rtucker, sudo halt --catchfire would want rtucker's password
10:56<bartzy>bss: OK, so making my app connect to the master when writing and to one of the slaves or the master when reading is the way to go right ?
10:56<bss>that would be a way to go, yes. i wouldn't say "the" way because mysql is pretty flexible
10:57<bss>it's just about what you want to manage
10:58<bartzy>OK, and how should my app connect to a different slave for each read ?
10:58<bartzy>Should I implement it @ my code or use mysql proxy or something like that ?
10:58<bss>mysql clients tend to connect once and keep it open, so you'd probably want it in your code if you really want to spin around your slave servers
11:00<HoopyCat>afk, make clean
11:04<bartzy>And how should I approach load balancing and slaves failing ?
11:08<bartzy>bss ? :)
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11:10<bss>a load balancer could probably solve both of those, or you could deploy a slave per application instance
11:10<bss>any sort of round-robin thingy would probably take care of it
11:10*bss less familiar with load balancers in practice
11:11<tanto>bartzy: with mysql?
11:11<tanto>use mysql mmm
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11:17<bartzy>tanto: What do you mean ?
11:17<tanto>google mysql mmm
11:18<tanto>it's a tool to handle what you are looking for
11:25<cmayo>does anyone use pylons or django here?
11:26-!-mawolf [~mw@] has quit [Quit: Alea iactus est.]
11:28<JshWright>cmayo: django
11:28-!-A-KO [] has joined #linode
11:28<JshWright>never pylons
11:30-!-DesertPanther [~Khalid@] has joined #linode
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11:31<cmayo>JshWright: what i'm trying to do is use django or pylons and then add extJS elements to it. what's an easy way to do that? do you just add the code into the index.html?
11:31<cmayo>i'm brand new to frameworks
11:32-!-nek4life [] has quit []
11:32<JshWright>cmayo: isn't extjs a javascript library?
11:32-!-DesertPanther [~Khalid@] has quit []
11:32-!-grawity [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
11:33<cmayo>JshWright: yes
11:33<JshWright>then what does the framework matter?
11:33<JshWright>the framework is on the server
11:34<cmayo>well, how do i put the extJS in a framework? doesn't it need to be inside the html document? how does django accept an html document, and all the information that goes inside?
11:35<bartzy>oh tanto you meant 'mysql mmm' .. I thought you meant 'mysql... mmmm..' lol :)
11:35<JshWright>cmayo: sounds like you should go through a Django tutorial
11:35<JshWright>your presentation code goes into a template
11:35<JshWright>any js on a page would be in that template
11:35<amitz>which should be added, a very good tutorial.
11:36<cmayo>can you point me to a tutorial that shows me how it goes in the template?
11:36<Karrde>hmm, tentatively, Unreal IRCd doesn't like 2.6.33+ - spamfilters that ran fine before suddenly trigger slowness warnings, and some take up to 2.5s(!) to run. 2.6.33 and .34 were the same; I've been back on 2.6.32 for 40 minutes now and seen no warnings yet (previous kernels saw them within 20mins)
11:36<cmayo>,1802H_Mammut-Outline-Fleece-Jacket-Hooded-For-Men.html - isn't this nice? i wish they had this in 2xl, i'd buy them up
11:36<bartzy>bss, HoopyCat, tanto: thank you all for your kind help ! :)
11:37-!-ElectricBill [] has joined #linode
11:39<cmayo>JshWright: anything specific for this instance?
11:39<HoopyCat>bartzy: np :-)
11:39<cmayo>i'm still trying to decide between django and pylons, depending on how difficult it is
11:39<Daniel_G>any idea how long it takes for a DNS change to update with the linode DNS manager? made it over an hour ago but still isn't resolving...
11:40<JshWright>cmayo: you need to understand the basics before you can worry about the specifics
11:40<HoopyCat>Daniel_G: zones regenerate every 15 minutes; after that it should be pretty fast. what did you change? (odds are really good your local server has the nxdomain cached)
11:40<Karrde>Daniel_G: 0-48 hours depending on every single resolver in between Linode and you
11:40<cmayo>JshWright: why did you chose django or pylons?
11:40<Daniel_G>wasn't a change, i added a domain to the manager
11:40<Karrde>Daniel_G: what domain and what's it supposed to be resolving to?
11:41<HoopyCat>Daniel_G: an add is still a change :-)
11:41<JshWright>cmayo: they both have their strengths and weaknesses, I flipped a coin
11:41<Daniel_G>it doesn't resolve to anything, its switched off the old DNS it was pointing to so the nameserver update has propagated
11:41<Daniel_G>but it doesn't respond or resolve to anything currently
11:41<JshWright>Django accelerates faster, but Pylons has a higher top speed
11:41<Daniel_G>i tried it on and they're all coming back with unknown host
11:41<HoopyCat>Daniel_G: what's the domain?
11:41<Karrde>Daniel_G: what domain and what's it supposed to be resolving to?
11:42<Daniel_G>, supposed to be resolving to
11:42<linbot>JshWright: Host not found.
11:43<HoopyCat>Daniel_G: looks like the nameservers are dns[123]
11:43<Karrde>more important would be using Linode's DNS servers, not whatever just-ping uses
11:43<Karrde>and they're not resolving at linode, and HoopyCat is ahead of me
11:43<amitz>JshWright: that's... interesting. Gimme keywords to hint on this acceleration and top speed thingie. Or are you talking about development time?
11:43<HoopyCat>Daniel_G: linode's nameservers do have it: 86400 IN SOA 2010062742 14400 14400 1209600 86400
11:43-!-syntaxma1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:44<Daniel_G>HoopyCat: where are you seeing it resolving to the old nameservers?
11:44<JshWright>amitz: it's a broad and imperfect metaphor... IMO Django lets you prototype stuff faster, but tends to tie your hands a bit in a mature project
11:44-!-lifegx [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:44<Karrde>Error: (111, 'Connection refused')
11:44<Karrde>wd linbot
11:45<HoopyCat>Daniel_G: dig +trace soa
11:46<Daniel_G>hmm odd, the old parking page it was on switched off a few minutes after i updated the nameservers, made me think it had changed of successfuly
11:46<amitz>JshWright: I can see what you mean. yeah, django helps many common works but I guess that makes customizability using the very same framework more limited.
11:46<linbot>New news from forums: BOTs attack in Performance and Tuning <>
11:47*amitz returns to lurking status
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11:51<amitz>4-1.. rofl :-D
11:52<HoopyCat>Daniel_G: your registrar maintains that, along with the whois database; the actual NS delegations are done through a different process
11:53<Daniel_G>right ok, cheers
11:55-!-hyy [~hyy@] has joined #linode
11:55<hyy>I was thinking, Is it possible to use customized xen kernel in linode. :-)
11:56<tanto>yo dawg i heard you like linodes, so we put a linode inside of your linode
11:56<JshWright>oh, you mean a Dom0 kernel?
11:57<hyy>My customized dom-U
11:57<hyy>well, It's ok even if we don't have that.
11:57-!-hyy is now known as xinming
12:00-!-MJCS [] has quit []
12:06<amitz>how do you windows people manage software packaging in a development environment?
12:06-!-sn0man [] has joined #linode
12:08<sn0man>I'm lookin to test out lighttpd, does it use .htaccess files or is that an Apache only thing?
12:09<ericoc>sn0man: .htaccess is an apache thing
12:12<sn0man>ah, I see. I'm hosting an array of wp sites. so I'm trying to figure out the best way to set it up. But I was hoping to use w3tc which as of right this moment only really supports .htaccess rewrites to use the entire suite of tools
12:13<ericoc>w3tc is a wordpress thing?
12:14<sn0man>w3 total cache. It is a opcode caching/minify/self hosted cdn/ you name it suite specifically written for wp
12:14<ericoc>wordpress has a lot of apache-specific stuff...
12:15<spkitty>yeah it does
12:15<spkitty>not just w3tc
12:15<spkitty>pretty sure somebody has got wp and w3tc working with lighty before though
12:15<ericoc>yeah, not even counting plugins, wordpress is pretty apache-specific
12:16<ericoc>found this, but i don't know how much it helps:
12:16<spkitty>anyway w3tc does a pretty good job of getting rid of the mysql and apache woes you have with wp
12:16<sn0man>@spkitty: yes, it does. just not entirely. Specifically the minify features get broken as they rely on apache rewrites
12:16<tanto>is w3tc compatible with 3.0?
12:16<sn0man>kinda, the dev is still working on a final release for 3.0
12:17<spkitty>gzip is broken in w3tc though which is annoying
12:17<spkitty>i have no problems with it on 3.0
12:17<spkitty>but they still haven't fixed the gzip opera issue
12:17<sn0man>I was running the .9 beta he released but had other misc problems with the cdn features not getting redirected correctly
12:18<sn0man>But he's quite active on the project and when it works it works incredibly well
12:18-!-MJCS [] has joined #linode
12:18<spkitty>yeah it speed up my wp by a factor of 10 at least
12:18<sn0man>yea, I have a hard time believing people when they say stuff like that. But having used it myself I know it's quite true.
12:18-!-maushu [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:19<spkitty>its so much better than supercache was that's for sure
12:19<sn0man>have you heard of varnish spkitty?
12:19<spkitty>it's a theme isn't it?
12:20<spkitty>oh no wait
12:20<sn0man>no it's some other kind of (correct me if I'm wrong) reverse http proxy / accelerator or something
12:20<spkitty>yeah so i see - haven't messed with it
12:20<sn0man>on it's own it's supposed to do amazing things, but I saw in the w3tc beta he is incorporating support for it as well
12:22<sn0man>yea, those are some impressive benchmarks/claims. I'm quite interested in trying it out to say the least
12:23<sn0man>on apache even, hehe
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12:44<Musicmasteria>would anyone be willing to look at my apache2 settings and tell me why my server keeps using 400% cpu and progressively more mem till it swaps?
12:44<linbot>New news from forums: Storage nodes in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
12:45-!-MJCS [] has quit []
12:46<Musicmasteria>is anyone even here?
12:47<ericoc>of course not
12:47<Musicmasteria>thought so
12:47<Musicmasteria>not a single person is here to talk to
12:47<thegodlikehobo>just us chickens
12:47<ericoc>nah, people are here, they just have other things going on, who knows
12:47<sn0man>dont forget the bots
12:47<ericoc>yeah, linbot is always friendly
12:47<Musicmasteria>are chickens good with linode servers?
12:47<ericoc>Musicmasteria: are you using mpm or something?
12:48<ericoc>pastebin settings you want looked at?
12:48<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
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12:49<Musicmasteria>here's the pastebin
12:50<Musicmasteria>im using the prefork mpm
12:50<Musicmasteria>LAMP server w/ wordpress
12:51<Musicmasteria>sitting on a new Linode 1024 w/ the ram upgrade
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12:55<Musicmasteria>as soon as a start apache2 this happens in htop
12:55<ericoc>mmm lots of processes
12:55<tanto>i can't decide who my favorite character is in the show bones
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12:56<Musicmasteria>any recommendations?
12:56-!-Solver [] has joined #linode
12:57<ericoc>i really don't know tbh :/ have you tried worker mpm before?
12:57<Musicmasteria>don't think wordpress works well with that
12:57<ericoc>oh, dunno
12:57<ericoc>that many processes is something with mpm :/ did hoopycat tell you to turn keepalive off?
12:58<ericoc>#12/26/09 - changed to 'Off', HoopyCat
12:58<ericoc>did he say why?
12:58<ericoc>im just curious
12:59<Musicmasteria>not exactly sure
12:59<Musicmasteria>but i think with it on the server was keeping apache2 processes on too long
13:00<sn0man>If I want the sshd daemon to listen on only a vpn subnet can I tell it "ListenAddress" or do I need to specify an exact IP?
13:00-!-gmcharlt [] has joined #linode
13:00<Musicmasteria>and now that it's off it is creating too many processes again but it has been a while since that change
13:00<ericoc>sn0man: just specify the vpn server's IP
13:03<ericoc>sn0man: wait what, the sshd is running on the same server as the vpn server or is the ssh daemon being run on a vpn client?
13:04<sn0man>vpn client running on my linode. And I would like my linode to only listen for ssh on the vpn's secure tunnel
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13:08-!-Peraes [~Peraes@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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13:08<sn0man>however the vpn issued address is dhcp and I would like to make sure that ssh is always listening on that network device
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13:12-!-lmatos is now known as help
13:12-!-help is now known as identify
13:12<Musicmasteria>@ericoc, so do you have any ideas that I could try to fix this thing?
13:13<ericoc>Musicmasteria: really don't know :/ i think you're mpm startservers/maxclients lines need tweaking but im really not sure
13:13-!-identify is now known as lmatos
13:14<sn0man>yea, it seems a bit much
13:14<ericoc>try out those values
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13:32<Musicmasteria>@ericoc, no better, possibly even worse if that's possible
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13:37<sn0man>how many sites do you have running/configured ? If your really stuck I'd suggest disabling one by one and see if it's related to a single site
13:38<Musicmasteria>only 1 site
13:39<Musicmasteria>with my current config all 4 cpus are at 100%
13:39<Musicmasteria>mem around 600-700MB of the total 1024MB
13:40<sn0man>I didn't look specifically, but are you running fcgi?
13:40<Musicmasteria>if i am i don't know it
13:41<Musicmasteria>how do i check/
13:42<sn0man>one sec, looking through the pastbin
13:44<sn0man>does /var/log/apache2/error.log complain about anything? I would imagine it's running some scripts and they eventually time out.
13:45<tanto>music: set apache Timeout to 15 seconds. set KeepAliveTimeout to 2 seconds
13:45<tanto>make sure your php memory limit is not too high
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13:46<tanto>music: if it's a wordpress site i'd recommend using some kind of caching
13:48<Musicmasteria>what's a reasonable php memory limit?
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13:49<Musicmasteria>i have it set to 64M atm
13:49<sn0man>64-90mb is usually what I set it to
13:49<sn0man>in php.ini
13:50<sn0man>wp-config or wp-settings I think I set to 64
13:52<sn0man>but I don't think that'll solve anything, I would suggest either changing the logging level to a more sensitive level and see if you can get them to tell whats causing it or backup your config and reset it back to default and piece it back together. Without knowing which setting it is or no log it's hard to say without retracing your steps back to the origin
13:56<Musicmasteria>looking in error.log of apache2
13:56<Musicmasteria>server reached maxclients
13:57<sn0man>this a live site?
13:58<Musicmasteria>yes unfortunately
13:58<@irgeek>Turn off keepalives.
14:00<Musicmasteria>current apache.conf
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14:10<Musicmasteria>damn why is it so difficult to setup a reliable server
14:11<sn0man>can you tell if you are getting enough traffic to cause something like this?
14:11<Musicmasteria>definitely not enough to justify this
14:12<sn0man>how many right now?
14:13<Musicmasteria>im not sure how to answer that
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14:16<sn0man>thats ok, you might not have any analytics to tell you how many at this moment... ummm, how much bandwidth is the server pushing out? (linode admin area should say) and do a "watch -n1 tail -n30 /path/to/access.log" and see if there's a ton of requests flying by
14:17<spkitty>Musicmasteria: it could be almost anything - i managed to get 400% cpu on my server with a wp bug that set up an infinite loop
14:17<spkitty>do you know your theme is solid?
14:18<Musicmasteria>sn0man, i have access logging disabled
14:19<sn0man>I agree, it really doesn't take much to throw a wp site into a downward spiral. Even a default wp install. Do you currently have any caching utilities or plugin's setup and configured?
14:19<Musicmasteria>spkitty, my theme could be better and it's weird because there wasn't a problem with my config until yesterday when i cleared my wp super cache cache
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14:19<sn0man>can I have a link to your site if you don't mind?
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14:20<spkitty>Musicmasteria: did you edit the theme before you cleared your cache?
14:20<spkitty>its whatever change you made before you cleared the cache that's messing you up here
14:21<Musicmasteria>the only change i made before i cleared the chache was add a strtr to a theme file
14:21<sn0man>what cache do you use though?
14:21<Musicmasteria>sn0man, check your pms
14:22<sn0man>got it
14:22<sn0man>what cache app/plugin/utility do you use?
14:22<Musicmasteria>on the wp side i use wp super cache
14:23<spkitty>you should use total cache instead of super cache anyway
14:24<sn0man>do you have iotop installed? or any disk i/o program to see what your disk is doing?
14:24<sn0man>If you cleared your cache, your server may just be attempting to recache but is failing because of too many requests
14:25<ElectricBill>Opinions please: what is the most economical way to reliably stash 4TB of images for web retrieval? Colocation, server rental, cloud, etc... ?
14:25<ElectricBill>anyone with direct experience?
14:26<sn0man>@Electric - I'd say it really comes down to how much traffic, low traffic a regular server could do it, but if it's high, I'd say cloud
14:26<Musicmasteria>sn0man, no iotop and the problem occurred late last night it shouldn't have had a problem recreating the cache at that time
14:26<ElectricBill>I think low traffic applies. Less than 100GB/mo
14:27<sn0man>Start out with a regular server running a basic nginx or lighttpd and see how it goes
14:27<spkitty>Musicmasteria: what about iftop?
14:27<ElectricBill>I was thinking a 2u RAID6 in a rack. Our own equipment or the service providers?
14:27<ElectricBill>Less hassle to use service provider.
14:28<Musicmasteria>i haven't installed any other 'top' programs other than the ones that came with the default setup
14:28<Musicmasteria>'top' and 'htop' are the only ones i know of
14:28<ElectricBill>I don't think I should worry much about what does the http - even a standard issue Apache oughta do, I think.
14:29<sn0man>@Music: try "vmstat"
14:29<sn0man>i think thats on there by default
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14:31<sn0man>@Electric: apache "will" limit you for serving static files, whether it's now or later. But it's just easier to serve the static content from nginx or lighttpd and use Apache for dynamic
14:33<Musicmasteria>sn0man, trying but everything is going very slow due to apache
14:33<sn0man>it's all good, I know it isn't gonna me instant at this point :P
14:34<sn0man>im workin on my server inbetween anyways, hehe
14:36<Musicmasteria>i seriously need some experts to handle my server for me, I'm failing so badly right now
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14:36<sn0man>I wouldn't worry about it that much, this is how you learn and become good
14:36<cmayo>anyone here use sql server 2000?
14:43<Musicmasteria>this is what i got
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14:44<sn0man>k, one sec
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14:48<eric_nw>Any current issues with dns before I open a ticket? I've got a couple new domain names setup today around 9am that still don't have records
14:50<sn0man>I can see it's swapping like crazy, so here's what I would do. Since the site is obviously offline at this point anyways. I would close off port 80 to simply stop any incoming requests. Set it to something else like 8080 or 9090. Restart apache and see if it levels off to the point where you can access the site (it'll be on
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14:52<sn0man>If it does come back, you'll know it's the cache. If it doesn't you'll know you'll have to dig deeper and guess / backtrack through what you've done or changed recently. Cut unneccessary plugins out of the equation. Cuz in this state you can't really see where the problem is, that that should help you pinpoint whats freaking out
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14:57<tanto>ElectricBill: amazon s3
14:57<ElectricBill>tanto, any idea what shelving 4TB would cost on S3?
14:57<tanto>they have a calculator
14:58<ElectricBill>tanto, indeed, they do. So I can test your recommendation. Thanks.
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15:03<tanto>i think s3 would offer the best options for future growth
15:03<tanto>and should offer a competitive price currently, especially for the redundancy+cdn+etc you get
15:03<tanto>you wouldn't get those things by buying a box and a SAN and colocating them
15:04<marshall>anyone here ever work with Magento?
15:06<ElectricBill>tanto, I'm seeing cheapest option at about $100/TB/mo, so it's seems OK for 4TB. But if I scale to, say 10TB, then it seems I can do it, maybe, for about $500/mo with my own server with colo or similar approach.
15:07<ElectricBill>I would have my own backup.
15:09<ElectricBill>But S3 also charges to serve the images.
15:10<Zol>how many mysql instances should be running when it's up and about?
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15:15<tanto>electricbill: well 4 TB is a lot of data, it's not really a trivial amount of data
15:15<tanto>and if you have your own backups, is that $500/mo including the price of the 2nd server and bandwidth?
15:15<tanto>is that $500/mo including the price of hardware?
15:16<tanto>also with 4tb you probably want a cdn don't you? amazon aws has that
15:16<ElectricBill>tanto, the second server and bandwidth is a fixed cost that we are stuck with anyway... so it's a resource we might as well use for "free"
15:16<tanto>so your $500/mo does that include a cdn? because they're not really cheap
15:17<ElectricBill>cdn not critical
15:17<tanto>personally i'd go with s3 but i've been using s3 for a while and i think it's great
15:18<tanto>i have some customers that use a ton of ec2/s3/sqs
15:18<ElectricBill>if we had better organization, I think it would be great as an extension to our own cloud based on Eucalyptus.
15:18<ElectricBill>I'm not ruling it out yet.
15:18<tanto>and i'd prefer not to mess with that part of the infrastructure myself, and spend more time working on the business and developing out new ideas
15:18<ElectricBill>Just many inter-related factors to consider.
15:19<ElectricBill>Good point...
15:19<ElectricBill>I would really like to stop replacing drives in the ffikkin RAID array.
15:19<tanto>one good thing is that amazon is a huge, huge company... you can rest assured they won't be going away any time soon
15:19<tanto>yeah, dealing with hardware can be a pain
15:20<ElectricBill>true, but I like to make my own redundancy and not ultimately rely on external sources for service continuity...
15:20<ElectricBill>not that good service is a bad thing ;-)
15:21<tanto>if you colo some boxes you'd still be relying. obviously you want a copy of all your data at your office as well =P
15:22<ElectricBill>yeah - that's just it - I assume every component will eventually fail sometime - even Amazon
15:22<ElectricBill>My goal is three data copies and one hot standby at all times.
15:23<ElectricBill>Only have one capable site for operation now.
15:23<tanto>what kind of data is this? porn videos?
15:23<ElectricBill>still photos
15:23<ElectricBill>not porn
15:23<tanto>of pornographics?
15:24<tanto>thousands of porn
15:24<ElectricBill>millions of general interest
15:25<tanto>what's your web site ?
15:25<ElectricBill>I guess. Not my web site - belongs to client, so prefer not to disclose.
15:25<tanto>no worries
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15:26<ElectricBill>haha - not so whimsical, unfortunately.
15:27<Clorith>millions you say
15:27<Clorith>hmm, imageshack and photobucket announce billions, so neither of those :P
15:27<ttaylor>Anyone getting loss to Dallas?
15:27<ElectricBill>well, more than a million
15:27<tanto> ?
15:27<linbot>New news from forums: openntpd versus ntpd in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
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15:28<tanto>Images Uploaded: 34,707
15:28-!-D|TooHot [] has joined #linode
15:28<tanto>apparently not imgur either
15:28<tanto>oh nm that's 1 day
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15:30<apeiron>More Dallas DDoSs?
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15:30<internalkernel>apeiron: somethings going on...
15:30<apeiron>I'll... take that as a yes
15:30*apeiron sighs
15:30<internalkernel>just hopped in to try to find out..
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15:30<D|TooHot>Duude - where's ma 'node?
15:30<apeiron>yep, that's a Dallas issue.
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15:32<internalkernel> - is where I'm losing packets...
15:32<ttaylor>Any open a ticket about Dallas yet?
15:32<internalkernel>but they always seem to get this sorted quickly...
15:32<apeiron>internalkernel: They've had lots... and lots... and lots... and LOTS... of practice.
15:33<internalkernel>see... everythign seems to be fine again..
15:33<ttaylor>route to dallas is much better now
15:34<d-b>mikegrb: lol lol lol
15:34<metap|pe>the planet? lolz. I know a guy that had a few servers down there.
15:34<d-b>seriously i hate that thing
15:34<d-b>the planet gone?
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16:47<ooooPssss>Hi. I'm sorry for this question but can someone please compare me Linode 512 with Heroku FREE please? In terms of performance, req handled, etc.
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16:53<jtsage>ooooPssss- it looks to me like heroku is a shared solution. not familiar with it, but I assume you get what you pay for. It would really depend on what you are looking to do - a linode would be quite a bit more flexible i would think
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16:54<ooooPssss>jtsage: thanks for the answer. Can you tell me something that I cannot do in Heroku and can do in Linode?
16:54<ooooPssss>I'm not sure which one to choose, a VPS or Heroku. If I go with VPS, its linode for sure.
16:56<jtsage>heroku appears to be ruby specific platform - make an app, and they run it. they seem to have created a lot of terminology for themselves, so i'm not positive what you actually get with the free plan. A vps on the other hand, is essentially your own server in the cloud. dedicated IP, root access to the machine, etc. you can install and run pretty much whatever you want on a VPS
16:58<ooooPssss>Yes, I understand that perfectly.
16:58<spkitty>well there you go then
16:58<ooooPssss>What I don't understand is what I can do with root access that I can't do in heroku or appengine, I "only" want a web app.
16:58<spkitty>on heroku you can host a ruby app - on a vps you can do anything
16:59<metap|pe>there can be a bit more to running a site than just having your app hosted.
16:59<metap|pe>depends on what you need tho.
16:59<ooooPssss>Can you explain please?
16:59<spkitty>yeah you haven't exactly made your needs obvious here
16:59<ooooPssss>I "just" want a web app
16:59<jtsage>ooooPssss- if that's all you need, then maybe heroku is worth looking at. what i can't seem to find is what is included in the base package really. web server process so your app is online? bandwidth? etc.
17:00<ooooPssss>bandwidth is FREE
17:00<ooooPssss>you don't have disk space, except for the app space (<500M), and you have a DB with 5MB
17:00<metap|pe>bandwidth is never free
17:00<ooooPssss>and then you have a bunch of addons that you can pay or not
17:00<jtsage>how much of it? (just throwing out things to list when you make your choice)
17:00<ooooPssss>it is, you don't pay for it.
17:00<ooooPssss>jtsage: what do you mean?
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17:01<jtsage>how much bandwith is free? enough for a few users a month? 1,000? 100,000?
17:01<ooooPssss>they dont have restrictions
17:01<ooooPssss>you have to use S3
17:01<ooooPssss>you just host the code on heroku
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17:03<metap|pe>do you need or want to control your own: dns, email, file access (sftp, ftp, dav), other services? some of these may be integral to your site/app (or they may not)
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17:03<ooooPssss>I think they have addons for all that.
17:04<ooooPssss>maybe for just a web app, something like heroku or app engine is better for me.
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17:04<ooooPssss>thank you for your time.
17:04<jtsage>it's an interesting idea, i'll give em that. but i don't see how they make money off of the free account - so my assumption is that at least some of those addons have to be required to make it do anything truly useful.
17:05<ooooPssss>the free account has only 5MB of DB space.
17:05<ooooPssss>I'm not sure what you can do wth 5MB
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17:07<metap|pe>I'd try and nail down 1) features required 2) how much resources 3) price of 1 and 2
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17:07<esparkman>hello guys
17:08<esparkman>i have a question regarding the API
17:08<metap|pe>if that equals more than 20 a month, linode all the way
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17:09<hobot>yeah heroku vs linode is comparing apple's to oranges in a lot of ways
17:09<waldner>so is it expected that running "conntrack -L" on a linode gets me "Operation failed: invalid parameters"
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17:12<Defenestrator>ooooPssss: 5MB is a huge limitation. You really can't do much at all with that.
17:13<ooooPssss>yes, that might be the biggest problem.
17:13<nsremove1>Hello! Can I remove two nameservers from Linode Manager? Remove link is unavailable? Any other way?
17:13<thegodlikehobo>nuke it from orbit
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17:15<eighty4>esparkman: just ask your question :)
17:16<esparkman>is there a public api? I know we have an api key and all. I am looking at building a linode manager.
17:16<esparkman>also are there any detailed api docs
17:16<eighty4>esparkman: have you read ?
17:17<esparkman>eighty4: thanks
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17:37<waldner>does linode kernel support netlink?
17:38<waldner>it seems that's where conntrack fails
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17:42<europn>i have a question about best practices with web directories ...
17:42<europn>what is a good rule of thumb.... using: // or //
17:42<Nivex>depends on your thumb
17:42<europn>i will get an SSL certif and i will have each of my customers have 1 dedicated folder.
17:43<Torenn>guys have an idea how to do something similar to "address renumbering" in ipv6?
17:43<Torenn>Unbelieavably the guys of #ipv6 "don't know".
17:44<JshWright>You'll have to explain what you mean by "address renumbering" first
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17:45<Torenn>well since some "public services" do limit the number of connections coming from the same ip address... I wanted outgoing connections to choose "randomly" the src address to use between the ones available, I found how to do that with iptables in ipv4... but not in ipv6
17:46<Torenn>because the NAT table (for POSTROUTING) is... missing?
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17:50*Torenn hears the echo of his voice coming back to him :-/.
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17:53<JshWright>Torenn: so, you're looking to circumvent rate limiting?
17:53<JshWright>s/rate limiting/ip based rate limiting/
17:53<Torenn>something similar in ipv4 i'd just mark the packets and postroute 'em after
17:54<Nivex>Torenn: maranda, is that you?
17:54<Torenn>but in ipv6 i have no idea how to do that
17:54<Torenn>Nivex, yes.
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17:55<Torenn>and I loved the answer of berniv6 (Sometimes I would like that rifleing people from the monitor could be possible).
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18:05<hobot>you mean you would give them a groove all the way through?
18:05<hobot>rifle them good
18:07<Torenn>No it's just atm I'm very tired, frustrated and don't need senseless, useless rethoric answers shooted at me. Instead of a polite: I don't know how to do that.
18:07<Solver>on the plus side they'd be spinning when they come out of the tube
18:08<Nivex>Torenn: I suggest you come back when you are less tired and frustrated then. Things might make more sense.
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18:09<Torenn>Nivex, that won't be necessary.
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19:40<Runar>Why did everyone in every channel I'm in suddenly stop talking? :(
19:41<tritium>it's that time of day
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19:42<Runar>It's only 1:42am
19:42<Pryon>Good thing there's only 1 time zone on the planet
19:43<Runar>Life would be so much easier
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19:52<ericoc>daylight savings time makes it so there's not even just 1 time zone in every time zone
19:52<ericoc>so confusing :(
19:54<Runar>But it all makes sense, I guess
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20:01<cdsboy>Hey guys, I'm trying to figure out why my ubuntu based vps show that i have 6mb of memory free when top can account for maybe 70mb of the used memory
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20:01<Thorrr>how much memory is cached?
20:02<cdsboy>hehe, its really easy to ignore columns until someone points it out >.>
20:02<cdsboy>its really not my day lol
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20:06<tanto>does anyone use puppet?
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20:15<HoopyCat>cdsboy: (worth it for the artwork)
20:18<Thorrr>thats a good one
20:23<tanto>every time i see that domain i read it as "linux ate my mom"
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20:47<daevien>urmom is so big even linux couldn't eat her
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20:51<Torenn>If any op/linode op awake does this make any sense for you:
20:51<Torenn>xxx@storm:~$ sudo ip -6 rule add prio 100 fwmark 1 table 101
20:51<Torenn>RTNETLINK answers: Address family not supported by protocol
20:53<ttaylor>Yaakov: if you haven't found a solution, take a look at tinyproxy
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21:03<ChatLeper>ogod nrgnomi
21:04<Torenn>Small question? could I know why CONFIG_IPV6_MULTIPLE_TABLES is disabled in the Linode's Kernel >_>?
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21:06<Torenn>rather** supplied Linode kernels >_>
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21:14<nisstyre56>Torenn: maybe because linode doesn't have ipv6 support?
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21:20<Torenn>nisstyre56, far from being a valid reason considering we are allowed to use ipv6 tunnelbrokers.
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21:27<bob2>why are you trying to use lots of ips, anyway?
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21:27<Sehcel>hi there
21:33<Torenn>bob2, because I require 'em for xmpp transports. (expecially the IRC transport) I don't wanna find my servers g-z/k-lined for too many connections from the same ip and my users unable to connect.
21:34<Clorith>I've never had that issue =/
21:36<Torenn>It's not a problem I'll use a pv-grub kernel but I would've appreciated to be spared from the hassle.
21:37<@irgeek>Torenn: If we put *everything* into the kernel, everyone gets a bloated kernel. Things that very few people want are covered by pv-grub.
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21:39<encode>irgeek: urmom is covered by pv-grub?
21:43<Torenn>irgeek, I'm trying to find information if the ubuntu's linux-image-virtual will break anything up.
21:43<@irgeek>I haven't tried it.
21:44<Torenn>ah well the worst it may happen the vps won't boot :-/
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21:47<Torenn>irgeek: any idea if indomU=false applies to 10.04 as well?
21:48<@irgeek>No. I haven't personally played with pv-grub in a while.
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21:58<linbot>New news from forums: CPU and Disk IO spikes every hour in Performance and Tuning <>
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22:34<tanto>LINUX ATE MY MOM
22:36<smed>that's disturbing
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22:52<linbot>New news from forums: upgrading 32 bit to 64 bit in General Discussion <>
22:52<linbot>SelfishMan: Spam subject of the second: Become stylish and make guys run after you. Our website offers a wide range of stylish cufflinks.
22:53<SelfishMan>women wear cufflinks?
22:57<Runar>I see
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22:59<linbot>encode: Spam subject of the second: Jody Sent You A Message
22:59<encode>I bet she didn't
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 28 00:00:47 2010