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#linode IRC Logs for 2010-07-16

---Logopened Fri Jul 16 00:00:06 2010
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00:28<amitz>australia seems to be pretty obsessed with experience. You can't be accepted into a certain job if you don't fulfill the number of years in experience?
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00:31<bob2>job ads are full of lies
00:33<Kos>yeah don't believe those
00:34<amitz>hmm noted. I guess it's the same in some countries.
00:36<Bhavic>It's same here in NZ as well
00:36<Bhavic>Everyone wants X years experience!
00:36<Bhavic>Pretty annoying
00:36<amitz>say, is omission of experience considered a bad offense?
00:37<amitz>not adding, but omitting.
00:38<Bhavic>Wouldn't think so, but why would you want to omit it
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00:43<amitz>I guess some people have some good reasons.
00:44<amitz>anyway, one reason I asked is because I heard it's a bad offense to omit your academic record when applying to college.
00:44<amitz>which makes sense for academic.
00:45<Kos>amitz: dependning on the industry
00:45<Kos>do good work, and have something to prove it
00:45<Kos>also, make friends and do the project with them, 100% easier to make the work nice usable
00:46*Kos got his first job by claiming he did more on a project his friend did than he actually did
00:46<Kos>I of course asked him if that was alright, I wasn't trying to steal his credit, but when they're asking for someone with a degree in CS or related, and you're fresh out of high school, gotta have some help
00:47<amitz>true, all the difficult to get interviews I land are due to friends -_-
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00:48<Kos>yeah dude, nothing wrong with a little help
00:48<hobot>nepotism is the best
00:48<Kos>as long as you can keep the job after it
00:53<amitz>large company is good for that. With enough walliness, you can manage to do no work :-p
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00:53<hobot>sounds like youd be a good worker
00:55<Kos>how could you have a job, but not want to do work
00:55<amitz>hobot: I'll rub it in your face by chatting 40 hours per week, muahaha
00:55<amitz>that was just an observation, I'm not planning to do that ;-)
00:56<Kos>I chat online all the time during my job
00:56<Kos>doesn't mean I don't do work
01:00<amitz>I know
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01:08<hobot>you cant really rub it in my face
01:08<hobot>that would imply I care
01:11<amitz>any mobi to pdf converter for linux?
01:13<SelfishMan>amitz: ghostscript I'm sure
01:16<amitz>hmm a start, thanks. Althought I just found out that there is actually a mobi reader for linux.
01:23<amitz>...damn, android has kindle.
01:23<MJCS>how do you do a ls/dir with columns such as size and time
01:24<amitz>ls -al <= one of the option
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01:38<mdcollins>ls -l does the detailed list and ls -a lists all files including .files
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02:03<amitz>it's ingrained in my head. Basically ls -al to find anything comprehensive.
02:04<amitz>to comprehensively find anything.
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02:44<Bhavic>Does linode xen pv or something else?
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03:26<dcraig>after switching to the paravirt kernel, it seems that things that use mysql (mediawiki and a webchat thing in my case) are noticably faster... is this just in my head?
03:29<dcraig>of course, I also have 512 MB of ram now, too
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03:32<amitz>anybody aware of app people used to measure an expected man hours of developing something, which estimate using previous development history?
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03:38<dcraig>maybe this?
03:39<dcraig>the "evidence-based scheduling" sound like what you mean
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03:46<amitz>now that I expected but that's really nice!
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03:48<amitz>more like the ability to record aspects of certain development (number of functions/library used, number of screen, number of relationships between tables and their natures, etc), so that if I declared those numbers in future development, the app can generate an estimate on the number of hours used.
03:49<amitz>and the app, by virtue of historical data, can begin to put weight on existing libraries on how they matter.
03:49<dcraig>sounds exciting :D
03:49<Kos>sounds like magic
03:49<Kos>and like you're trying to rid of a project manager
03:49<amitz>it should be ideal for estimating works necessary for customizating existing app.
03:50<amitz>nah, project manager already has plenty of things to do in their mind.
03:51<chesty>amitz: you might like this, found in a job description: Excellent communication skills and ability to communicate things that
03:51<chesty>people may need to know before they ask.
03:51<chesty>amitz: do you have esp?
03:53<amitz>chesty: haha, I declare to be a job ad wtf of the day!
03:53<amitz>that to be
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04:07<dcraig>LK is stalking me!
04:08<LK>Lies! :P
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04:11<chesty>dcraig: asl?
04:11*dcraig is a 27-year-old male in pasadena, california, usa, where it is 1:11 am
04:11*dcraig slaps mikegrb around a bit with a large oil-covered golden loach
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04:18<Marius>Do you also enjoy long walks on the beach and moon shine talks?
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04:55<nfinch>Hi, I'm trying to copy an ssh key from putty to my debian install. I realise this is a really daft problem, but how do I paste it? - Also have I created the correct file - /ssh/authorized_keys?
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04:59<Xobb>~/.ssh/authorized_keys should be the directory
05:02<nfinch>coobra:cheers! that's much more helpful than putty's own guide
05:02<nfinch>Xobb:the ~/.ssh folder doesn't exist - I take it I need to create it?
05:04<Xobb>nfinch: yes, ~ is the alias for your home dir. /home/nfinch for example
05:05<nfinch>Xobb:Thankyou! It was simple in the end
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05:25<dcraig>don't forget that the .ssh directory should be readable only by you
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05:26<dcraig>if you created it manually yourself
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05:27<chesty>not true
05:27<chesty>~/.ssh/authorized_keys needs to be 600
05:27<chesty>any private keys need to be 600
05:28<chesty>everything else, like pub keys and the .ssh directory can be world readable
05:28<dcraig>I suppose
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05:28<dcraig>whenever it gets created automatically, it seems that .ssh isn't readable by others
05:29<Alan>are you sure authorized_keys does?
05:29<Alan>there's nothing sensitive there
05:29<coobra>oneal in Stargatesg1 <3
05:30*Alan waves to dcraig
05:30*dcraig slaps alan around a bit with a large oil-covered crucian carp
05:30<coobra>onliners <3
05:30<Alan>I am cross-network stalking j00
05:30<dcraig>first LK, now you
05:30<Alan>coobra: you seen all of SG1?
05:30<dcraig>it never ends :(
05:31<Alan>coobra: i chain watched... until they changed the cast :|
05:31<coobra>Alan: im on ses3 for the 5th time :D
05:31<Alan>so, first 8 seasons are ok
05:31<Alan>but 9 and 10 are broken i think?
05:31<Alan>on-line ext3 resize.... i hope this works!
05:33<Alan>what's the point of the -p flag to resize2fs when it's not actually telling me anything?
05:33<Alan>also, how does it take so long to resize?
05:33<Alan>doesn't need to move anything...
05:33<Alan>so even online it should be fast :|
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05:36*dcraig "resizes" Alan
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06:13<nfinch>Hi I'm attempting to follow the security basics advice but I'm confused about ssh. In sshd_config I've changed permitrootlogin to no, and PasswordAuthentication to no - and I have my authorized_keys file set up correctly. But it still prompts me for my password when I login. Should it be doing this?
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06:14<Alan>nfinch: have you restarted sshd?
06:14<amitz>have you restart your sshd? /etc/init.d/ssh restart <- in debian/ubuntu
06:14<Alan>Also, are you sure you're being asked for your server password and not your key password? (stupid question, but possible)
06:15<nfinch>thank you both - let me check
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06:19<bob2>you also need to disable pam to disable passwords
06:19<nfinch>I've restarted the service - but no change. It's asking me for the user pw. I take it I've misconfigured something.
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06:19<nfinch>how do I disable pam?
06:19<nfinch>in ssh_config?
06:21<bob2>that's where all the sshd options are
06:21<Yaakov>UsePAM no
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06:22<gibbet>okay so i have a linode with drupal and i've installed phpmyadmin but drupal isn't allowing me to access it
06:23<bob2>nothing to do with drupal, reallty
06:24<bob2>presumably you added a vhost for drupal, and set the DocumentRoot to point at the drupal root dir
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06:24<nfinch>Pam's disabled - but no change. Is there anything else I could have missed?
06:25<gibbet>ahh nvm got it, you just had to log in to drupal as admin
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06:25<gibbet>that's pretty neat :)
06:26<bob2>nfinch: pastebin your sshd_config
06:27<gibbet>sorry bob2
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06:30<nfinch>here it is
06:32<bob2>ChallengeResponseAuthentication sounds like a password auth too
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06:34<nfinch>it's already no - should I switch it to yes?
06:35<bob2>oh, I'm just dumb, sorry
06:36<bob2>sure you restart it? other than that, I Don't know, sorry
06:36<nfinch>:) np
06:37<nfinch>I'll restart it - if it's the same, I'll try a fresh install. I'd only just begun to set this up so no harm done
06:37<nfinch>cheers for your help
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07:17<Yaakov>Something sucked a HUGE amount of data from my linode about 7PM EST yesterday.
07:18<Yaakov>I can't figure out what!
07:18<Yaakov>Oh, wait, yes I can!
07:18<Marius>was it urmom?
07:18<chesty>i downloaded a single picture of urmom at 7
07:18<Yaakov>I was proxying my http access for a little while.
07:19*TimothyA1 is proxying it 24/7
07:19<TimothyA1>and so far I've only used up 20GB
07:19<Marius>you don't browse enough.
07:19<Marius>I probably use more then that a day =/
07:19<chesty>on your linode?
07:19<Yaakov>It was some streaming stuff. Comcast's "transparent proxy" goes opaque sometimes.
07:19<Marius>no, in browsing habits
07:20<amitz>chesty: lies! There is no lens big enough and/or far enough to capture Yaakov's mom in one shot.
07:20<chesty>amitz: it was stitched together from multiple satellite images
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08:02<Null__>when using a syslog-ng filter based on program, does it treat it as a regex by default, meaning you'd need more specific rules first? I'm filtering on program("PROG"); then a few filters down, by program("PROGRAM1");. Seems like the second filter isn't being applied, and all logs end up in the first filters destination.
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08:05<adnc>hello, there is someone brute-force attacking my linode server. i've banned him through my firewall and hostslist. it is obviously a human and most probably missusing a vps server in london. is there anything else i can do except banning through my firewall?
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08:09<adnc>Nivex, but what could linode do?
08:09<Nivex>you said "a vps server in london", I assume you mean another Linode
08:09<adnc>I just see that now this guy is comming from an ip that belongs to russia krasnoyarsk
08:09<adnc>Nivex, no, it is not linode
08:09<adnc>sorry thats my mistake
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08:10<adnc>ist was this ip the whole morning now it is
08:10<Nivex>hmm, in that case your firewall is a good idea. you may still wish to send a note to abuse@ just so they have a log in case the attacker goes after other Linodes they have justification to request a sorce route drop upstream
08:11<adnc>i did, i mostly have the done experiences that the abuse@ instances just simply ignore my mails
08:11<adnc>i never get any replies
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08:17<adnc>i just sent a mail to the address it came back as "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender" with the Errormessage: unknown user. Haha, my mailserver marked this mail as spam
08:18<adnc>unbelievable. what do they hope to get with all there stupid tries
08:18<linbot>New news from forums: Big RAM increase, how will you use it? in General Discussion <>
08:21<adnc>i'm just reading the above article, there are people who use linodes as remote GUI dekstop?
08:21<Nivex>apparenty. Though that procedure is Not Recommended™
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08:32<TheJoe>Well, mysqld is running in single user mode fine it seems
08:32<TheJoe>Although I can't find a reasonable way to test it
08:35<chesty>start apache
08:35<chesty>or lighty
08:37<TheJoe>You know, of all the problems I could have; I can't start a second LISH session
08:39<chesty>that's right, you can only have one lish at a time
08:39<Phiber_Optic>how do you connect to wemin?
08:39<TheJoe>So getting to run lighty seems impropable
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08:41<chesty>you don't have a command prompt?
08:41<TheJoe>I can't seem to SSH normally
08:41<TheJoe>SSH isn't running...
08:42<TheJoe>Er, what would ^C be in LISH? I'm gonna need to end mysqld
08:42<JshWright>you need to use ^C to end mysqld?
08:42<TimothyA1>I r newb and I kann0t access mah linode anymore!
08:42<TheJoe>I can't do much else
08:42<TheJoe>TimothyA1, That's me!
08:43<TimothyA1>'rm -rf /' is for installing buntu, rite?
08:43<JshWright>mysqld is running as a daemon... isn't it?
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08:43<Phiber_Optic>how do i connect to webmin?
08:44<chesty>TheJoe: why didn't you run service mysql start ?
08:44<TheJoe>chesty, For the output
08:44<TheJoe>Oh... yeah
08:44<chesty>anyway, log in via putty
08:44<chesty>to lish
08:44<TheJoe>Yeah. I'm doing that now
08:44<Phiber_Optic>thank you cheaty
08:45<TheJoe>Oh. LISH is screen.
08:46<Phiber_Optic>how wo i change the username and password fo webmin???
08:46<JshWright>webmin uses normal system accounts
08:49<Phiber_Optic>jsqeight i recently had an accident qne i dont remember my accounts :(
08:50<Phiber_Optic>thats why im asking for ex
08:50<Phiber_Optic>my hotmail i had to ask a lot
08:50<Phiber_Optic>the rest im doing by forget passworrd
08:52<TheJoe>Eh, ok, well. Reboot and another run of mysql showed no innodb warnings. Guess I'll just run the system normally...
08:52<Null__>for the record, syslog-ng filters do seem to treat things as a greedy regex, with more specific rules required first
08:52<JshWright>to change your webmin password, you would need to change your normal users password (the one you use to ssh in)
08:53<Phiber_Optic>thanks you
08:53<Phiber_Optic>but how do i know which user connects to webmin?
08:53<TheJoe>Oh, cool. Looks like it's all safe.
08:54<Phiber_Optic>im getting the follow error: E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (13 Permission denied)
08:54<TheJoe>Thanks, chesty
08:54<chesty>TheJoe: it will happen again unless you tune
08:54<TheJoe>I'm well aware of that
08:56-!-Phiber_Optic [~Phiber_Op@] has quit [Quit: Phiber_Optic]
08:56<TheJoe>I'll limit the PHP children as stated in the Linode wiki for a start
08:56-!-Phiber_Optic [~Phiber_Op@] has joined #linode
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08:59<Phiber_Optic>if i dont remember my su passord cn linosw admin help m?
08:59-!-orudie [] has joined #linode
08:59<TheJoe>You can change the root password from your Linode control panel
08:59<TheJoe>The system will need to be turned off for that
09:00<Phiber_Optic>how do i do that??
09:01<TheJoe>Turn off the system, go to your profile's settings, change the password
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09:02<Phiber_Optic>TheJoe i cant find it
09:04-!-TheJoe [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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09:04<tramtrist>hello.. is it possible to run a VM inside a linode using vmware server or virtualbox?
09:05-!-silence [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
09:05<TheJoe>tramtrist: Possible, but a very bad idea
09:05<Phiber_Optic>theJoe any ideas??
09:05<amitz>yes, but it may be difficult and slow.
09:05<TheJoe>Phiber_Optic: Setting and Utilities
09:05<tramtrist>bad because of memory/cpu restrictions?
09:06<TheJoe>Phiber_Optic: If you can't navigate the control panel, should you really be running a server?
09:06<tramtrist>oh ok so theres nothing stopping it techinically .. linode kernel etc
09:06<tramtrist>kernel modules compile fine
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09:07<amitz>nope, nothin. but if i guess correctly, vtx flag is turned off.
09:07<tramtrist>whats that?
09:07<Phiber_Optic>nop i shouldnt but it just that i dont remember many things :) after my accident ;0
09:08<JoeK>i have like 400 infections
09:08<JoeK>AND im on 2 antibiotics
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09:08<tramtrist>vtx flag on the xen bios?
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09:11<Durosoft0>so I've done some tests and it doesn't look like the filename of a file is included when calculating it's file size
09:12<Phiber_Optic>How do i do to return my account??
09:12<Marius>Does nayone here run hyper V?
09:13<Durosoft0>this concerns me because my users might be able to store data in filenames of blank files
09:14<bliblok>Replace the users
09:14<Marius>what kind of users do you have?
09:14<bliblok>Or maybe you can put a limit on the number of files.
09:15<Marius>or you could write your own process that counts filesize, as well as adds up the bytecount of the filename?
09:15<Phiber_Optic>how do i do to return my account?
09:15<Durosoft0>well no I'll just have to modify my storage space consumption script to take the byte size of file names into account, but it's worrisome that this isn't already done automatically by the operating system
09:15<Marius>Isn't there a size limit to filenames any way?
09:16<Durosoft0>but I'm running a cloud based ftp service
09:16<Durosoft0>so users can create an unlimited amount of files
09:16<Durosoft0>and the file system the cloud is running on allows for 512 characters in a file path
09:16<Durosoft0>so across many blank files, you could squeeze a lot of unaccounted for data in ther
09:17<Durosoft0>I thought there might be a switch I could use with ls to get it to include file names in the size calculation, but I guess not
09:17-!-tramtrist [~tramtrist@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:20<hobot>cant you just assume they are 255 bytes
09:20<hobot>at most
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09:20<Durosoft0>I could, and I would make more money that way
09:20<Durosoft0>but I already have rows for every single ftp transfer in the database
09:20<Durosoft0>so I can be very precise if I want
09:21<Durosoft0>it doesn't get queried in real time, though
09:21<Marius>well, if you have the transfer data, you should already have the filename
09:21<Marius>so accounting for bytecount shouldn't be a big issue
09:21<Durosoft0>it isn't
09:22<Durosoft0>I just wanted to make sure there wasn't already a commonly used way of doing this
09:22<amitz>damn, I lost tramtrist
09:22<Durosoft0>I bet one could really mess up the quotas in a shared hosting environment by storing data that way
09:25<amitz>Marius: yes, that will be awkward -_-
09:26<hobot>wow. haha
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09:29<Durosoft0>wow I think I'm gonna go sign up for a [insert major shared hosting company here] account and have php start pumping out 0 byte files with random long file names, keep track of the byte count of the total text stored, and see if my disk consumption actually goes up in their control panel when I hit like 5 gigs
09:29<Durosoft0>course they probably do monitor total files
09:30*MeCooL :)
09:31<adnc>does someone know if the passphrase is optional when creating ssh key-pair?
09:32<adnc>thank you
09:32<chesty>yes, someone knows
09:32<adnc>but is it still necessary?
09:32<JshWright>adnc: we were just telling you if someone knows
09:32<amitz>damn, just four.
09:32<amitz>idem to chesty and JshWright
09:32<Durosoft0>passphrase is optional
09:32<TheFirst>well there are obvious tradeoffs if you don't use one ... you have to decide if they're worth it or not
09:32<adnc>Durosoft0, thank you
09:33<JshWright>adnc: yes, the passphrase is optional, but it's a very goot idea
09:33<chesty>you can have a passphrase, and use an agent so you only have to type the passphrase in once
09:34<adnc>i understand
09:35<Durosoft0>If I'm running apache, and I'm the only valid sftp user on the server (so don't have to worry about other accounts)... is there any security risk with having files chmodded to 777 in public html directories?
09:35<Pryon>do you trust all of your server-side code explicitly?
09:36<Durosoft0>and if my server were circumvented, it would probably be through PHP anyway, in which case the attacker could chmod any files that aren't 777 to 777, so I feel like there is no point worrying lol
09:36<DephNet[Paul]>Durosoft0, why do your files need to be 777?
09:37<DephNet[Paul]>and if they *need* to be 777, your doing it wrong
09:37<Durosoft0>iF I were too lazy to actually take the 30 seconds to figure out what number it would have to be for [insert-program-here] to modify them?
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09:38<Marius>doing it wrong.
09:38<Durosoft0>if I'm the only possible valid shell, why would it ever be an issue
09:38<chesty>that reminds me of a joke
09:38<amitz>uh, chesty joke.
09:39<amitz>with 's, off course.
09:39<amitz>minus one 'f', of course.
09:40<Durosoft0>let me rephrase the question to match what I'm actually worried about
09:40<Durosoft0>if I'm running pro-ftpd with mysql-based virtual users
09:40<Durosoft0>with shell login disabled
09:40<Phiber_Optic>how do i change my root password??
09:40<Durosoft0>root path disabled etc etc
09:40<Durosoft0>they are locked into their assigned directory
09:40<Durosoft0>if they chmod a file to 777
09:40<Durosoft0>over ftp
09:40<Durosoft0>can they fuck with my server?
09:40<Marius>Phiber_Optic: If you can't remember it, there's a root reset button on the linode manager page
09:40<Durosoft0>its not like they have a shell
09:41<Marius>If you can remember it you could just use passwd
09:41<DephNet[Paul]>Durosoft0, they could, if Apache is set up insecurely
09:41<amitz>heh, on the joke.
09:41<Pryon>Durosoft0: who does your httpd run as?
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09:41<Durosoft0>but assuming apache isn't enabled on any of those directory
09:42<Durosoft0>its purely for storage
09:42<Durosoft0>no http access
09:43<Durosoft0>the only way they can interact with the files is through pro-ftpd
09:43<Pryon>Good thing nobody's every been able to get a local shell by exploiting bugs in PHP scripts.
09:44<hobot>he already said that
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09:44<Pryon>Then what's all this about "apache not enabled on those directories"?
09:45<Durosoft0>because someone mentioned "if apache is set up insecurely"
09:46<Pryon>Is the setup of apache relevant once I have a shell?
09:46<Durosoft0>you wouldn't have a shell
09:46<Durosoft0>pro-ftpd is in virtual mode
09:46<Durosoft0>shells are disabled
09:46<Durosoft0>and you're completely locked into your directory
09:48<Durosoft0>furthermore the user pro-ftpd runs as doesn't have permissions to access /home
09:48<chesty>a completely secure server, by george, i think you're on to something
09:48<golemz>its been awhile. can anyone suggest where i might start in getting my dovecot pop3d to listen on localhost? i'm at that step in the lucid postfix walkthrough
09:49<Pryon>you want just localhost or localhost and all other interfaces?
09:50<Pryon>also, which distribution of linux?
09:50<Phiber_Optic>Mwrius thank
09:50<Durosoft0>is it just me or are the unix user / group permissions pretty limited? maybe I'm missing something but it looks like I can't have a file or folder with multiple permissions on it for different users / groups
09:50<golemz>pryon: i've been following the howto, and to test pop3 by telnet localhost pop3 it refuses
09:50<Pryon>golemz: (1) is it listening on *any* interface?
09:50<Pryon>(2) which distro?
09:50<golemz>ubuntu 10.04
09:52<Pryon>golemz: /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf protocol pope { listen =<port number here> }
09:52<Pryon>not pope.
09:52<Durosoft0>like if I wanted to make a folder that users A, B and C have read/write, read, and read/write/execute permissions respectively, and users A and B already belong to the same user group,is there even a way to do that lol?
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09:53<Durosoft0>it seems like if you want to do anything with multiple user permissions on a single file, you have to make a group just for that purpose
09:53-!-takamichi [~pri@] has joined #linode
09:53<Durosoft0>but maybe I totally missed something
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09:56<Pryon>ACLs? The permissions system has a long grey beard.
09:57<Durosoft0>so it's not necessairly that I'm stupid, it's that it can't do it?
09:58<golemz>pryon: excuse my ignorance, but i'm using sieve
09:59<golemz>ok sieve is not related
10:00<golemz>i'm keeping mail on a second ip, and i have a listen <ip> entry
10:00<golemz>i realize i need to rtfm
10:00<Phiber_Optic>how can i change my root password? step by step would be appreciated a lot
10:01<amitz>anybody ever used a functional resume? Any good experience with it?
10:01<golemz>can't you do that on the dashboard
10:01<JshWright>Phiber_Optic: log into the linode control panel... there's a button
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10:02<Phiber_Optic>thank you jshwright
10:03<daevien>others alreayd told you that Phiber_Optic.....
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10:18<golemz>pryon: thanks for attempting to help but i don't have the confidence to maintain postfix for now - google apps here i come :S
10:19-!-tmm1 [~tmm1@] has joined #linode
10:20<tmm1>is it possible to get more than 6gb extra disk space?
10:21<stan_theman>tmm1: You can order as many of those packages as you need
10:21<mwalling>stan's -o!
10:21<mendel>at some point it might make more sense to just buy a bigger linode though
10:22<stan_theman>i know :< heh. I rebooted
10:22<mendel>or use some kind of cloud storage
10:22<tmm1>yea i want to double disk space but don't need the extra ram
10:22<mendel>Right, but the pricing is designed to keep things evenly allocated
10:23<mendel>Past that point you can consider it free ram ;)
10:23<daevien>bigger package also means being on a server with fewer other linodes, so you can get other benefits besides just the ram
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10:30<tmm1>might be better off getting a cheap dedicated box so i can put a couple 250gb disks in there
10:34<Durosoft0>yea extra disk space with linode is prohibitvely expensive
10:34<Durosoft0>its a shame
10:35<mendel>vps not particularly cost-effective for storage, it turns out :)
10:35<mendel>also, linode disk is local
10:35<mendel>rather than being on a SAN
10:35<Durosoft0>they should have a SAN-based storage node service as well
10:35<Durosoft0>that you can mount onto ur linode
10:36<Durosoft0>would be awesome
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10:38<Durosoft0>is there some magical way of scrolling up in console based os's that I haven't figured out? I've always had to rely on scrolling in putty, but when I'm running a vm, it's pretty damn annoying
10:38<Durosoft0>omg really
10:39<Karrde>that'll bbe $10
10:39*Durosoft0 hides
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10:40<Durosoft0>how about select / select all / copy / paste / cut in nano?
10:40<StevenK>"Use vi"
10:40<Durosoft0>in nano I'm all arrow keys :(
10:40<Karrde>use a mouse / vi
10:40<Durosoft0>is it better?
10:40<Durosoft0>I keep hearing that people use it
10:40<Durosoft0>and I stubbornly stick to nano
10:40<Karrde>yes.. it's better...
10:40<Durosoft0>like an idiot
10:41<Karrde>you'll probably give up on vi within 30 seconds tho
10:41*Durosoft0 tries vi
10:41<Karrde>if you care enough, look up a vi beginner's guide
10:42<TheFirst>and print off a cheat sheet
10:42<Durosoft0>looks like I'll have to
10:42<Durosoft0>can't close it :o
10:42-!-takamichi [~pri@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:42<Durosoft0>wow I actually lasted 25 seconds
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10:44<daevien>thats a new record Durosoft0? guess we know where the soft part in your nick comes from. try viagra
10:45-!-Durosoft0 is now known as Durosoft
10:45<amitz>and there is something called vimtutor
10:45<Durosoft>it messed my name up when I connected
10:45-!-takamichi [~pri@] has joined #linode
10:45<Durosoft>yea I found a good guide
10:46-!-silence [] has joined #linode
10:46<amitz>it's a vim app with the tutorial writing opened, which will...tutor you.
10:48<mendel>vimtutor is great, yeah
10:49<Karrde>can I switch mysql's bind address without restarting it? I doubt it
10:51<Durosoft>why don't wildcards work in unix commands dealing with file names when the wildcard is at the beginning of the filename? If I wanted to delete all *.txt files, why won't it let me do rm *.txt -f ?
10:51<@jed>try reloading it, can't hurt
10:51<@jed>Durosoft: put -f before *.txt
10:51<Karrde>Durosoft: try rm -f *.txt
10:52<Karrde>switches generally come before arguments
10:52<Durosoft>oh ok
10:52<@jed>generally in the Unix land, it's <command> <ways to do the command differently> <stuff for the command to do>
10:52<@jed>there are exceptions like dig
10:53<ericoc>jed: you mean like +trace and +short?
10:53-!-Friction[2] [~lol@] has joined #linode
10:53<@jed>yeah, dig is all over the place
10:53<Karrde>jed: kill -HUP made it print status info to syslog and didn't make it rebind
10:53<@jed>Karrde: what distro?
10:54<ericoc>yeah, i didn't realize you could just put the record type as part of the command, i thought you needed "-t MX" or whatever, but 'dig mx
10:54<Karrde>Debian 5
10:54-!-Friction[3] [~lol@] has joined #linode
10:54<@jed>Karrde: /etc/init.d/mysq<tab> reload?
10:54<Durosoft>when a unix application is passed its command line args... does it just get it as a flat string like in windows or does the operating system parse the switches a bit and pass some sort of array? It's just interesting that so many commands follow the same convention unless it's somehow forced by the os
10:54<StevenK>Durosoft: The latter
10:55<Durosoft>I thought so, especially given the widespread use of wildcards
10:55<Durosoft>well thats cool then
10:55<Karrde>jed: negative
10:55<@jed>Durosoft: depends on what the application is written in - by POSIX, the glibc loader receives argc (count of the arguments), argv (array of character arrays containing each one), and envp (table of environment variables)
10:55<@jed>how that's passed off to the app is up to the language/platform it's in
10:56<@jed>Karrde: yeah, probably restart it then
10:56-!-derekyang [] has quit [Quit: derekyang]
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10:57<Durosoft>yea like I'm I'd assume mono executables can't use the wildcard feature
10:57<@jed>wildcards are handled by the shell
10:57<@jed>do this: echo *
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10:57<Durosoft>oh cool
10:58<@jed>which is why in a shell-less environment (i.e., subprocess.Popen in python with shell=False), wildcards won't work as expected
10:58<Durosoft>yea that's much less retarded than windows
11:00-!-Friction [~lol@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:00<@jed>eh, even on Windows you can pretend to be POSIX and get argc/argv
11:00-!-Friction [~lol@] has joined #linode
11:00<@jed>if you use WinMain you can't, though, which sucks
11:01<@jed> looks promising
11:01-!-Friction[2] [~lol@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:01<@jed>(haven't done Win32 dev in years)
11:01<Durosoft>as far as windows dev I've only done .net, which doesn't even really count
11:01<amitz>this is too gory. Please rate it NC-17 please :-p
11:02<TheFirst>jed: go back to it...see how long it takes for the api to drive you to a mad house
11:02-!-Friction[3] [~lol@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:02<@jed>I'd only ever do .NET again
11:02<praetorian>if it was a swordfish moment
11:03<Durosoft>I'm looking forward to when the cosmos c# os project is close to done
11:03<Durosoft>cool stuff
11:04-!-jackson_ [~jackson@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:05<Durosoft>well anyway thanks for all the help guys :)
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11:33<Pryon>you'll still need to read documentation, so I'm not so sure
11:33<Pryon>.oO(Did I say that out loud? )
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11:41<amitz>.oO(should I tell Pryon that it's spoken out loud?)
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11:44<FLASH4>hello, I had a huge spike yesterday from 8 to 9PM. Did linode do some maintenance over that time?
11:46<@caker>a spike?
11:46<@caker>which timezone? but no, there wasn't any maintenance
11:46<chesty>my timezone
11:47<FLASH4>90%CPU 2MB ttraffic
11:47<FLASH4>22K IO rate
11:48<@caker>that wasn't us.
11:48<FLASH4>Fremont CA
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12:06<wlfsbrg>hi there, i just tried to resize my image after powering down my linode and got the following fail message: "lv_resize: Image is currently snapshotted". Anyone know what this indicates?
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12:10<@tasaro>wlfsbrg: open a ticket and we'll take a look.. may be your daily backup is running or you initiated a snapshot?
12:12<wlfsbrg>tasaro: Ah that must be it! (daily backup) It says the backup window is (GMT-5) and I have 1200-1400 selected. Since I'm GMT-8 that's right in the midddle of that window. :)
12:12<wlfsbrg>I'll wait a couple hours then resize.
12:12-!-tacticus [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:14<wlfsbrg>Thanks for shining a light on the situation tasaro. :)
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12:19<eadams>hey there .. I'm a new customer. In the dashboard, I noticed some graphs and stats about, amongst other things, cpu usage. To be "polite", is there a certain number I should keep that under?
12:19<wlfsbrg>100%? :)
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12:20<@jed>eadams: that graph goes to 400%, and generally it isn't an issue
12:21<eadams>ahh, awesome ... I thought if I had 1/40th of the computer, I might be expected to keep it under ~2.5%
12:21<eadams>thanks for the info
12:21<@jed>I wouldn't stress about CPU, np :)
12:24<taupehat>well, that stinks
12:24<taupehat>my dns was hosted at, and they're offline
12:24<@jed>in other news, water found to be wet by researchers at top university :>
12:24<@pparadis>film at 11
12:25<chesty>BP scientists found oil and water don't mix
12:25<taupehat>ok, what's the sarcasm, kids?
12:25<@jed>taupehat: goes down regularly, because of its usage for IRC
12:25<taupehat>first time I've noticed it dropping this hard in years
12:26<@jed>python version 2.6.5 can't run /usr/bin/2to3. Try the alternative(s):
12:27<eadams>man .. I guess I was naive when I thought as the irc demographic grew older, the DoS attacks would stop
12:27<wlfsbrg>When an image is snapshotted, does that mean I can't access via SSH or FTP? I'm having connection errors.
12:27<@pparadis>eadams: the problem is a never-ending replenishing supply of 13 year olds with computers and high speed connections, a trend that is only increasing
12:28<chesty>wlfsbrg: didn't you say you shut it down?
12:28*wlfsbrg shakes his brain out
12:29<chesty>$1 goes in the jar
12:30<chesty>actually, that one is worth $10
12:30<eadams>btw, I signed up a few days ago and I'm really impressed with the service. I'm glad I didn't go to a more low-end provider. You really don't oversubscribe, which is amazing.
12:31<@pparadis>thanks :)
12:31<eadams>now I get to remove a couple of 1u colos I've had siphoning my cash for the last couple of years
12:31<chesty>eadams: keep going, you half way there to a discount
12:32<eadams>bwahahah .. thanks chesty ;)
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12:34<taupehat>eadams: five years and counting, my opinion matches yours
12:35<@mikegrb>mmm cake
12:35<taupehat>now it's time for cake
12:35*taupehat pokes caker
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12:41<eadams>where are your offices?
12:41-!-Robi [~c0a89260@] has joined #linode
12:42<amitz>usually within 100 meters from sea level. You?
12:42<@jed>heh, is at, too
12:42<ericoc>do seeding/downloading their torrents require DNS to be working?
12:42<ericoc>or is everybody screwed
12:43<@mikegrb>mmm cake
12:43<Pryon>cake poker
12:43<@jed>ericoc: probably cache
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12:45<eadams>thanks JshWright
12:46-!-Robi [~c0a89260@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:49<JshWright>cmayo: yer from the capitol region?
12:49<cmayo>JshWright: i'm from here, visiting, but live in boston
12:49<cmayo>where are you?
12:49<cmayo>i'm in saratoga springs at my grams
12:50<JshWright>cmayo: Syracuse
12:50<cmayo>shitty town
12:50<JshWright>heh, gee... thanks...
12:50<cmayo>have you seen the video that RPI student did on troy?
12:50<cmayo>are you going to school there?
12:51<cmayo>no worries, i'm not above you, i was at the albany bus terminal yesterday
12:51<JshWright>cmayo: nope, Syracuse... born and raised (aside from that 7 year stint in New Jersey)
12:52<cmayo>do you work for a firm there?
12:53<JshWright>cmayo: sort of... I'm a freelancer, though 25% of my time is with a local company (that I used to be full time with)
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12:56<cmayo>i'm an idiot
12:56<squircle>well i can't type, obviously
12:56<cmayo>i thought that was schenectady not syracuse. i've already forgotten "local" geography
12:56<cmayo>sorry JshWright !
12:56<JshWright>cmayo: no worries, I just won't tell mwalling
12:57<cmayo>i read that you had 25% from a local company, and iw as like "there are companies in schenectady with good websites?" so i re-read what you wrote, and thought for a second and went "aha!"
12:57<cmayo>syracuse is definitely a better city, but still a bit bland
12:58<cmayo>are they ever going to build that mall, JshWright ?
12:58<JshWright>of course not, it's just a way for Congel to make more money from the gov't
12:58<cmayo>i went to cornell for a year when i was 15 and finish high school in some program, so i was in syracuse a lot to travel back home (thru the bus terminal)
12:58<cmayo>congel is the real estate tycoon of syracuse?
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13:03<JshWright>My outlook on Syracuse is pretty much "Hey... at least it's not Utica"
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13:08<mwalling>syracuse is better then schenectady?
13:08<mwalling>what are you smoking, and why aren't you sharing any?
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13:12<golemz>cmayo are you using php5.3 with drupal? pesky parameters expected to be a reference warnings
13:12<cmayo>golemz: no. why do you ask?
13:12<cmayo>mwalling: where are you?
13:12<cmayo>golemz: i made the mistake one day and tried to upgrade. it's not a good idea.
13:12<cmayo>stick to 5.2.x
13:12<golemz>yeah, i've just learned
13:13<JshWright>cmayo: take a guess ;)
13:13<eadams>not that anyone asked or cares, but I'm in Austin, 8ms away from my node in the Dallas data center
13:14<golemz>i care, that is fantastic
13:15<golemz>you will be unstoppable on the gameservers you host
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13:16<eadams>heh, if only ... I'll have some boring drupal sites
13:18<golemz>cmayo are you using zend?
13:19<squircle>anyone know of some minimal, GUI-less linux distros that would fit on a 64MB CF card?
13:19<daevien>damn small linux is 50 or under i think
13:19<daevien>but does have gui
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13:19<cmayo>golemz: yes. i already do
13:19<squircle>i guess if it has apt I could just uninstall the GUI
13:20-!-jackson_ [~jackson@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:20<@pparadis> <-- for those who enjoy building things, learning, and solving problems
13:20<squircle>thanks pparadis
13:21<avar>pparadis: I enjoy that, but the tedium of setting up a Linux distro from scratch isn't my idea of building, learning and solving :)
13:21<@pparadis>yeah, it's not for everyone :)
13:21-!-ericoc [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:21<Karrde>*gasp* not a different audience!
13:21<cmayo>golemz: what are you building?
13:21<daevien> list of small linux distros i ust found
13:21<daevien>forgot abotu lfs. i've done a couple that way, good learning experience
13:22<golemz>cmayo: well i use drupal and i thoughtlessly transferred it to my linode using 5.3
13:22-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
13:22<golemz>i may as well remove all php packages and install zend for the optimizer and i hear it lets you select 5.2.x
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13:23<cmayo>gluck going back
13:23<mwalling>cmayo: schenectady
13:23<golemz>cmayo: why, is it gonn' be hard? :P
13:24<golemz>am i being cavalier issuing an apt-get purge php5 php-pear
13:24<cmayo>well, getting 5.3 purged is tough
13:24<golemz>oh balls.
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13:26<mwalling>apt-get purge linux
13:26<golemz>i could brew a pot of coffee and start all over again but blech
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13:28<squircle>pparadis: that micro core seems like it'd work great, thanks
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13:37<amitz>I hate wine. If I say in resume that wine is emulated, that implies ignorance on my part. But if I say pseudo-emulated, that sounds like "big" talk -_-
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13:38<jameswhite>traceroutes from my 4 linodes in atlanta, dallas, newark, and london to the one in fremont all drop at (
13:39*eadams grabs some popcorn
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13:42<JshWright>amitz: why would you need to explain what wine is in a resume?
13:43<amitz>JshWright: I begin to feel that some CV simply won't pass the HR people if I don't explain it.
13:43<amitz>s/it/many things and how they're significant/
13:43-!-jameswhite [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:45<amitz>2nd questions, do you usually put links to your project but cluttering the resume, or you assume them to google it themselves? Which one is more polite/nice anyway?
13:46<JasonF>amitz: are you a contributer/author of wine or just an experienced administrator
13:46<amitz>JshWright: fwiw, I have never ever EVER got an interview of IT where the interviewer is just an HR person. I think that implies something...
13:47<amitz>JasonF: oh no, I'm just a compatibility maintainer of an app.
13:47<amitz>s/'m/ was/
13:47-!-squircle [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:47<JasonF>I'd just say that you contributed to the WINE project with a link
13:47<JasonF>the link says it's not alcohol
13:47<Nivex>The HR people are mostly a filter. They check that the buzzwords in the posting match the buzzwords on your resume and that you have the right number of letters after your name.
13:47-!-storrgie [] has joined #linode
13:48<Nivex>Then they forward it on to the hiring manager who makes the actual decision on whether to call you.
13:48<JasonF>yesss karma yesss
13:48<amitz>JshWright: usually the interviews I get are the ones where they interview in pair, an HR person and a technical person.
13:48<JasonF>that's how it works here. resumes aren't filtered by non-technical people
13:48<JasonF>we'll sometimes have engineers filter developer resumes or vice versa
13:48<JasonF>but it's always a tech person
13:49<amitz>JasonF: hmmm, noted.
13:49<amitz>assuming, technology illiterate person, I think I must be a bit verbose.
13:49<JasonF>amitz: if you live or are willing to live in Texas or VA, apply at to Rackspace.
13:50-!-ssteinerX [] has joined #linode
13:50<amitz>JasonF: unfortunately I don't have such working visa ;-)
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13:53<golemz>for simplicity's sake i'm going to wipe/reinstall. also, for simplicity's sake, should i go with karmic to get a php5.2.x LAMP stack?
13:55<daevien>friend got hired by RIMM (blackberry people) a few months ago and they told him at one of hismultiple interviews that up to 9 people might sit in on it. he was a bit panicy about that heh
13:55<daevien>luckily only like 3 or 4 were there
13:56<eadams>JasonF, I went to a sweet rackspace party in austin
13:56<eadams>and saw some employees getting tattooed =P
13:56<eadams>to clarify ... tattooed with the company logo
13:56<golemz>that's dedication
13:56<daevien>thats stupidity :p
13:57<ssteinerX>eadams: who the heck hired the tatoo artist to come?
13:57<ssteinerX>eadams: or was he/she just a nother 'spacer
13:57<ssteinerX>uh, racker, whatever
13:58<eadams>rackspace hired all sorts of entertainment ... cigar roller, breakdance crew, graffiti artists, and a tattoo guy
13:58<eadams>I doubt he was a "racker"
13:58<daevien>i won't get names or logos or stuff like that for tattoos, neverknow when you'll break up / quit / etc. the only exception i can see would be kids names
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14:01<golemz>my younger cousin got 'mom' and 'dad' tattooed on the undersides of her wrist
14:01<golemz>her mom is aghast.
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14:02<amitz>..hmm in an interview, they asked me whether I really know all those stuff I threw to be caught by keyword checkers. What's a suggested heading for the list of keywords? I wrote it under the heading of "technical skills and experiences". Any better suggestion?
14:02<golemz>must have hurt too. just occurred to me maybe it's to prompt extra consideration when bringing a razor to the area
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14:06<amitz>i saw one version where he separate them based on level of knowledge and familiarity..
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14:15<mendel>I've had resumes where they indicated on a scale of 1-5, took up a lot of space though
14:19<JshWright>Perihelion's gotta cut back on the tweeting... she's currently 72% of my twitter stream
14:19<linbot>New news from kernels: Latest 2.6 Paravirt (2.6.34-linode27) <> || Latest 2.6 Paravirt (2.6.34-x86_64-linode14) <> || 2.6.34-linode27 <> || 2.6.34-x86_64-linode14 <>
14:19<amitz>yeah, that's a problem. The scale, plus another categorization for ease of reading will take a lot.
14:20-!-Jere [] has joined #linode
14:21<amitz>nah, it's somewhat rare Perihelion becomes tweethappy. It will pass ;-).
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14:22<mendel>jshwright: You could follow a bunch more people and then the %-age would drop!
14:23<golemz>i kinda expected more 'are you sure?!' messages when wiping/redeploying my linode (:
14:23<@caker>golemz: Are you sure?
14:24<golemz>yes. delete that sucker
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14:26<golemz>interesting, my new install bound to the second ip in the list
14:27<@jed>golemz: insert key to authorize deletion
14:27<golemz>where's the big red button
14:29<cmayo>does this seem like a good use of resources, a linode 512 for my mysql db running my drupal site and postgresql db running my mapserver and postfix/dovecot (we do 1 email a month, with currently 100 people on it, no spam software, though i need to add something) AND a 768 for lighttpd and tomcat.
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14:29<cmayo>i'm running a gentoo site that gets about 200 unique views a day, but is moving up quickly as we are getting more people there
14:29<cmayo>also, i will need to put geoserver on the 768 linode...
14:29<cmayo>tjfontaine: you here?
14:29<cmayo>does that sound right, or should the latter linode be a 1024?
14:29<TheFirst>200 views a day doesn't need 3 servers..
14:30<golemz>it needs like 7
14:30<cmayo>TheFirst: 2 servers. i know it doesn't need it *now*, but we are expanding and using mem-intensive apps. i'm trying to get ready for the future. in a year, i see 10k uv's a day, plus 3k users on our map part of our site that runs geoserver/postgis/openlayers
14:30<cmayo>don't be mean, golemz :(
14:31<@caker>cmayo: worry about it then :)
14:31<JshWright>cmayo: sounds like you need some memcached
14:31<golemz>cmayo i'm sorry, you're my drupalidol
14:31<cmayo>caker: we have a grant that has to be used up this year, for 100k, so i'm trying to prepay. help me help you :)
14:32<cmayo>JshWright: got a link?
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14:34<golemz>prepay until 2030
14:35<cmayo>we currently have a 1024 running everything and our free ram is 462M
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14:38<cmayo>can someone please answer me? would a 512 and 768 be good, or should we do 512 and 1024, or should i do a 512 for geoserver, 512 for tomcat, 512 for lightppd and 512 for db's and email?
14:39<Nivex>heck if I know. I hate tomcat
14:39<JshWright>cmayo: it's really impossible to say...
14:39<Nivex>profile your apps, see how they run
14:40<avar>cmayo: Like I told you yesterday, it's impossible to know given that data.
14:40<JasonF>although it's worth saying
14:40<JasonF>torrents are generally VERY i/o intensive
14:40<JasonF>and not well suited to vms
14:40<avar>Only if you have really fast seeds, or if you need to unrar stuff
14:41<mwalling>cmayo: design for your needs.
14:41<tjfontaine>cmayo: I'm not really around, but the only harm you add to your environment by splitting everything up is some TCP/IP latency
14:42<mwalling>cmayo: if someone tells you "x y z is the absolute truth, and there is no other", they're either full of crap or too smart for their own godo
14:42<tjfontaine>cmayo: plus if you later identify a node that needs more it's easy to update that specific piece
14:43<tjfontaine>remember the unix motto of: Do One Thing, Do It Well
14:43<tjfontaine>if you have the resources, and the environment is easy to work with such that you can separate responsibilities, do it.
14:44<cmayo>mwalling: i agree, i'm just trying to figure out what the best option would be. or at least get a better idea
14:44<eadams>cmayo, fwiw, you probably don't need to worry about your tomcat, even if it's relatively (not not insanely) inefficient, until you're at about 1,000 hits/hour -- that "may" be the peak traffic if you're getting 8,000 hits/day
14:44-!-DesertPanther_ [~Khalid@] has joined #linode
14:44<azaghal>You can easily upgrade the Linode, btw.
14:44<tjfontaine>also, let's say your tomcat goes batshit and starts eating memory, you're not likely to fuck the rest of your environment because of it
14:45<cmayo>eadams: so don't put tomcat on its own linode?
14:45<cmayo>tjfontaine: so do you say put tomcat on its own?
14:46<tjfontaine>I'm saying, if you can separate responsibilities it's to your benefit
14:46<azaghal>It's more dependant on what you actually run on top of Tomcat.
14:46<eadams>cmayo, I'm just trying to give you more data, I don't have a real answer to that question ... if I expected more than, say, 5,000 hits a day I'd probably put tomcat on its own
14:47<eadams>that's a mostly-arbitrary number, but if you're at 200 hits/day you're well underutilized
14:48<@pparadis>if you genuinely expect steady growth for something, sometimes service separation from the outset can make it much easier to scale things later. this is, of course, a very generalized statement.
14:49<tjfontaine>[07-16] 14:43:43 < tjfontaine> if you have the resources, and the environment is easy to work with such that you can separate responsibilities, do it.
14:50<tjfontaine>I like it how this channel just echos my sentiments
14:50<mwalling>we're all just tj clones
14:50<JshWright>WE LOVE YOU TJ
14:50<mwalling>except some of use are trying to swear less
14:50-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:50<tjfontaine>mwalling: haha
14:50<cmayo>caker: can we write a testimonial of linode's services to be put on the testimonial page?
14:50<cmayo>i've noticed some are quite old
14:51<@caker>cmayo: that would be great!
14:51-!-DesertPanther [~Khalid@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:51<cmayo>caker: really?
14:51<cmayo>i noticed some of them are *really* old
14:51<cmayo>2003, heh
14:51<JshWright>cmayo: that's not a bad thing
14:52<cmayo>caker: where do i send it?
14:53<@caker>cmayo: a ticket would work .. or service@
14:53<cmayo>caker: okay, thanks!
14:56<cmayo>caker: can you recommend the best way to set up what i have: tomcat for apache solr, geoserver/postgis/openlayers for maps, lightpdd for www (we are running a drupal and wordpress site), postfix/dovecot for email (going to add amavis-new for spam). we wnat a buffer for ram, but not too much as we'll scale up as we need. and we'd like to buy at least two years in advance...
14:56<cmayo>we aren't getting a lot of traffic now, but we are moving quickly
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14:58<JshWright>cmayo: the cost of the linodes are trivial relative to the amount of the grant, right?
14:58<tanto>cmayo: i run my tomcats with daemontools
14:58<@Perihelion>JshWright: I was bored, obviously.
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14:59<tanto>i recommend google's domain email service for all email =)
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15:00*daevien feeds Perihelion more chocolate to start another round of twitter spamming
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15:06<cmayo>JshWright: yes
15:07-!-sirpengi_ghost is now known as sirPengi
15:07<JshWright>cmayo: so split up your services as much as you can, and buy oversized linodes (if you then downsize them, the prorated refund stays in your account, so you can scale them back up without any more billing issues)
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15:09<cmayo>caker: i will contact billing about paying for 4 years, like you said
15:10<daevien>cmayo: you can pay for my linodes for 4 years too if you want :p
15:10<cmayo>JshWright: we've got 100k, about half goes to paying people, the other half can go to technology and our marketing campaign
15:11<eadams>whatever you do, please use my affiliate link to sign up cmayo
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15:11<JshWright>eadams: I think tjfontaine gets dibs on that ;)
15:11<cmayo>eadams: heh. we already have a linode, and i picked linode to use rather than another service because i've been using linode for a few years
15:11<cmayo>and i didn't evne take the credit when i signed up harvard
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15:13<eadams>I think you should JshWright - <JshWright> cmayo: so split up your services as much as you can, and buy oversized linodes
15:13<cmayo>i'm just tyring to decide if 512MB is enough for mysql db (which hosts the drupal site) and the postgresql db, which hosts the postgis stuff for maps, or if i should go 768
15:13<cmayo>like i said, a little bit of a buffer so i don't run into problems in a month would be nice
15:14<cmayo>i know how easy it is to scale up, though
15:14<JshWright>cmayo: go with the 768
15:14<eadams>cmayo - oversized!
15:14<cmayo>and 512 for lightppd www linode?
15:14<eadams>oversized again!
15:15<@pparadis>it's gonna depend on how much of a workout you give that DB server (things like caching on the frontends, etc in play)
15:15<JshWright>cmayo: 768 vs 512 is a $200 over two years... you're spending _way_ too much time worrying about this ;)
15:16<JshWright>s/$200 /$200 difference /
15:16<@pparadis>there is that :)
15:16<cmayo>thanks for that intro pparadis
15:17<cmayo>can i host lightppd and postfix/dovecot/amavis-new on a 512? our mail server does one email a month with 100 recipients, or should i split that off too?
15:19<JshWright>cmayo: a 512 is certainly capable of handling both lightppd and a mail server
15:19<JshWright>however, as tj said up above, if you _can_ split things out, it's generally a good idea
15:19<cmayo>caker: are you here? can i ask you a quick question via pm?
15:20<JshWright>if postfix freaks out and you have to bounce the box, it's nice to not have to take your web server out with it
15:20<cmayo>JshWright: yup, i'm taking tjfontaine 's advice, though i'm going to kepe the mailserver (for now) with lightppd, given the low load it has
15:20<cmayo>oh, does that happen often?
15:20<JshWright>no, not at all
15:20<JshWright>I would be surprised if it did
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15:20<JshWright>however, my general rule of thumb is to expect surprises
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15:24<cmayo>heh, no kidding
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15:27<eadams>is there a prepay discount?
15:28-!-wlfsbrg [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:28<cmayo>eadams: typically 15% for 2 years
15:28<@pparadis>or 10% for one year
15:28-!-storrgie [] has joined #linode
15:28<eadams>cool, thanks
15:28<cmayo>if you want to pay longer, they may give us a bigger discount, since we want to pay for 4-6 years, if they'll let us
15:29<cmayo>just open a ticket if that's something you want to do, says caker
15:30-!-BP{k}_ is now known as BP{k}
15:35<golemz>is there an option to transfer ones soul for a discount
15:36<TheFirst>golemz: sure, just send it my way and in 4-6 weeks you'll have one discounted burrito mailed to you ;)
15:36<golemz>i'll consider it
15:38<golemz>i have a hugely dumb question. i can't send mail() through php..
15:39<Yaakov>That *was* a dumb *question*. It didn't even have a question mark.
15:40<squircle>it was a statement, that's why.
15:40<golemz>i thought omitting the question mark was a sign of being cool
15:40-!-atourino [~atourino@] has joined #linode
15:41<golemz>this seemed to work ootb on lucid, but not karmic (im probably forgetting something)
15:41<atourino>so, if you work with regular expressions and have a windows machine (or vm) you HAVE to give RegexBuddy a try. it rocks
15:41<mdcollins>You may need either an mta or something like ssmtp
15:42<linbot>atourino: Yo momma's so big, the earth DOES revolve around her (801:2/6) [mmrou]
15:43-!-zack__ [] has joined #linode
15:44<golemz>right. thanks mdcollins
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15:47<mdcollins>You're welcome.
15:49<golemz>i needed the drupal smtp module to send via google apps, duh
15:50-!-zack_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:50<mdcollins>or also ssmtp will send via googleapps
15:51<tanto>anyone happen to use virtualbox? i downloaded a dvd image that i want to use to install a new virtualbox with
15:51-!-jackson_ [~jackson@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:51<tanto>i don't see how you select the dvd image for use with vb
15:52<TheFirst>one of the menus has a drive setup spot or some such...forget exactly
15:52<TheFirst>set up a drive and point it to that image
15:52-!-diederik [] has joined #linode
15:52<eadams>the "devices" menu up at the top
15:52-!-zack__ [] has quit [Quit: zack__]
15:53<eadams>"CD/DVD" submenu
15:53*TheFirst grumbles about libusb and virtualbox not playing nicely together
15:53<tanto>ahh i found it i think
15:53<tanto>i don't have a devices menu
15:53<tanto>i found a "virtual media manager" though
15:54<TheFirst>sounds right
15:54<eadams>that's in the main virtualbox window
15:54<eadams>the "devices" menu is on the machine window
15:54-!-adnc [] has joined #linode
15:54<tanto>are you on windows or a mac?
15:55<tanto>i don't see this devices menu on my mac
15:55<TheFirst>google instructions on installing openiboot and i know there's pic links on what you need to do ...
15:55<tanto>i've figured it out
15:56<tanto>thanks guys
15:56<@jed>I'm on a horse.
15:56<squircle>nice find
15:56<TheFirst>whiskey tango foxtrot?
15:57<@mikegrb>mmm cake
15:57<squircle>he's on a cake!
15:57<JshWright>The tickets are DIAMONDS
15:57<@jed>Israel Mustafa will be president one day, and is the secret love child of Chuck Norris
15:57<@jed>you heard it here first, ladies and gents
15:57<@jed>even his name is cooler than yours.
15:58<squircle>israel mustafa?
15:58<@jed>that's his name.
15:58<@jed>he used to play football, too
15:58<golemz>even cooler than batman bin suparman?
15:58<squircle>don't you mean isaiah mustafa?
15:58<@jed>isaiah, thank you
15:59<@jed>easy mistake to make, they're both equally badass names
15:59<JshWright>They were also both dude in the Old Testament
16:00<TheFirst>jed: sounds like you need yourself one of those chucknorium shirts
16:01-!-Xobb [~xobb@] has joined #linode
16:01<mdcollins>I'm on a chair?
16:01<@jed>Swan dive!
16:02-!-squircle [~squircle@] has quit [Quit: brb starbucks]
16:02<mdcollins>Woot! Annual Incentive Payout.
16:03<JshWright>jed: Israel is a little bit cooler than isaiah, since you can draw a shorter line to Yaakov via Israel
16:03<@jed>JshWright: six degrees of Yaakov?
16:03<JshWright>Jacob was also known as Israel, and Ya'akov is Hebrew for 'Jacob'
16:05<jacob>/nick israel
16:06<Yaakov>No, Jacob is a transliteration of יעקב.
16:07-!-Robbington [] has joined #linode
16:07<Robbington>Hey all, can someone give me hand/
16:07*daevien gives Robbington jed's hand
16:07<daevien>there ya go
16:07<@jed>it's kinda attached
16:07<@jed>Robbington: ask away
16:08<Robbington>Cheers. I only had one before so that will make life a bi easier. Sorry Jed
16:08<daevien>jed: to what part of caker's anatomy?
16:08<JshWright>Yaakov: I was oversimplifying..
16:09<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
16:09<Robbington>Anyhoo. I have uploaded my html file but none of the paths to my css s
16:09<Robbington>or image files work
16:09<daevien>unix = case sensitive
16:10<daevien>thats usually the first thing ot check.. image.jpg and image.JPG are diff files in unix
16:10<Robbington>I have changed them to point at new directories
16:10<@pparadis>do the directories exist on the filesystem?
16:11-!-|ALPHA|MadProfessor [] has joined #linode
16:11<Robbington>so the path is now /etc/robbington/css/test.css
16:11<Robbington>but it doesnt find it.
16:12<@pparadis>the path in your html file is that?
16:12<@pparadis>if so, you don't want that.
16:12<mdcollins>is /etc/robbington your html root?
16:12<@jed>/etc is designed for configuration files
16:12-!-plh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:12<@jed>you probably want /srv
16:12<@pparadis>!library lamp
16:12<mdcollins>and that too ^
16:12<linbot>pparadis: 1. Set up a LAMP Server on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 2. Build a LAMP Server on a Linode ( - 3. Set up a LAMP Server on Fedora 13 (
16:12<Robbington>I did just see that when googling and will change it to the right place
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16:12<@pparadis>when you're referencing file paths, you reference them from the document root of your website
16:13<@pparadis>not the full filesystem path
16:13<@pparadis>if your website is stored at, say, /srv/www/
16:13<@pparadis>and you have a subdirectory named /srv/www/
16:13<@pparadis>you would reference "/css/whatever.css" in your web page.
16:14<daevien>it's the actual address you can get if you use a web browser pointing to your site, not the real location of files on the server side
16:14<mdcollins>if your doc_root is /srv/www/
16:14<@pparadis>but please do review the LAMP guides listed above, as per jed's note on traditional (or just "not weird") locations for files.
16:15<Robbington>I will, am very new to linux, but just came across a good page that explained the directory structure.
16:15-!-daevien [] has quit [Quit: hoopycat's dehumidifer is chasing me, argh!]
16:15<Robbington>Thanks for the help though, it very appriciated. :)
16:15<@pparadis>this may also be very helpful -->
16:15<@pparadis>there are a bunch of introductor guides in that category
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16:27<Daevien>nifty. bitlbee has decided it wants to blow up when i connect to it now
16:27*atourino accidentally the whole thing is diamonds!
16:28-!-squircle|iphone [~squirclei@] has joined #linode
16:31<atourino>All your swan dive are now diamonds... and on a horse.
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16:47<BrianHV>I just set up a new domain using linode's dns. pointed the domain at and, but it's not resolving, either normally or when using dig to query those servers directly. what might I have screwed up?
16:48<BrianHV>I chose the "create some default records" option, or whatever it was called
16:48-!-zack_ [] has joined #linode
16:49<mdcollins>How long ago did you create the records?
16:51<BrianHV>Modified/Generated == 2010-07-16 04:33:48 PM/2010-07-16 04:45:12 PM
16:51<BrianHV>that's EDT, so around 20 minutes ago
16:52<BrianHV>aaaaand it just responded
16:52<BrianHV>ignore the noise. time to set up a vhost.
16:53<mdcollins>I was going to say, it takes time for the name servers to get the info and also for the domain to be updated to point to the new name servers.
16:54<MJCS>sometimes it takes 15 minutes but i've seen it take 48 hours depending on your ISP and propagation
16:54<MJCS>try flushing your dns
16:54<MJCS>and re-registering it
16:55<cmayo>linode's got mail :)
16:55<BrianHV>MJCS: it works now, thanks. I figured since the zones had been marked as generated it would work, but guess not.
16:55<MJCS>i actually saw one take a week
16:56<MJCS>it was that point i re-did the dns and it worked in 15 minutes...go figure
17:00-!-axod [] has joined #linode
17:00<axod>would people here recommend ?
17:00<MJCS>what is it
17:01<Craighton`>I would
17:01<MJCS>just set something up on your computer for free that can do the same thing
17:01<Craighton`>I use it
17:01<Yaakov>axod: It depends on what you mean.
17:01-!-orudie [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:01<Craighton`>I like it because it sends me txt messages when it is down
17:02<MJCS>you can do that on any computer
17:02<MJCS>for free
17:03<BrianHV>if you have a computer with guaranteed uptime...
17:03<@pparadis>and yes, it's a bad idea to trust monitoring from any single point
17:03<@pparadis>the internet can and does break all over the place
17:04<Yaakov>The internet is breakproof. Don't lie.
17:04-!-plh1 [] has joined #linode
17:04*mdcollins can't wait for his service to launch
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17:05-!-jimcooncat [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:05<axod>MJCS: from multiple locations?...
17:05<axod>pingdom uses about 20 locations
17:05<sirPengi>axod: my workplace uses pingdom in conjunction with monit
17:06<axod>cool, haven't heard of that,
17:06<sirPengi>I personally don't think we need it, monit does the job fine
17:06<Yaakov>I just host a free porn site and have a complaint address on the page.
17:06-!-zack_ [] has quit [Quit: zack_]
17:07<axod>nice idea :)
17:07<Yaakov>massively distributed monitoring.
17:07*atourino uses pingdom to monitor urmom
17:07<Yaakov>So to speak.
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17:16<MJCS> (axod) : linode already provides a monitoring service for the servers
17:16<MJCS>axod: linode already provides a monitoring service for the servers
17:17<axod>I have servers at other hosts as well... Also impartialitiy + failover is good. Will check it out though
17:17<axod>they do SMS alerts etc?
17:18<axod>did not know they were able to monitor open ports etc can they? :/
17:19-!-sm_ [] has quit [Quit: ]
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17:23<MJCS>anyone here familiar with mIRC script?
17:25-!-Daevien [] has joined #linode
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17:28<cmayo>caker: ping. you here? quick question...
17:28<cmayo>pparadis: are you peter?
17:29<MJCS>(MJCS): test
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17:54<mdcollins>!wx ksmf
17:54<linbot>mdcollins: [metar] OBS at KSMF: 93.2F/34C, visibility 10 miles, wind 4.60 mph (altimeter: 29.86) [KSMF 162053Z 24004KT 10SM CLR 34/17 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP111 T03440172 58015]
17:55<mdcollins>No way.. its at least 101.
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18:12<path>!wx wilg
18:12<linbot>path: [metar] WILG: not found
18:13<path>!wx kilg
18:13<linbot>path: [metar] OBS at KILG: 93.2F/34C, visibility 10 miles, wind 8.06 mph (altimeter: 29.89) [KILG 162151Z 24007KT 10SM CLR 34/21 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP119 T03390206]
18:15<eadams>aww, where did our friend with the $100k budget go?
18:19-!-Bhavic [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:20<eadams>oh, cmayo, still here
18:20<eadams>I suppose the work day os over
18:24<@psandin>cmayo: you looking for me still?
18:28<purrdeta>psandin: I love you
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18:35<atourino>swan dive!
18:35-!-atourino [~atourino@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:36<axod>this IRC channel is now *diamonds*
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19:40<cmayo>psandin: sorry, i highlighted the wrong person
19:41<cmayo>eadams: i'm still here, but going out, will be on later
19:41<cmayo>eadams: i'm at my boss' beckon call. no 9-5 for me :P
19:42-!-cmayo [] has quit [Quit: cmayo]
19:49<pharaun>Anyone knows of a good rack case - 4u with at-least 5x 5.25 inch bay so i can port my hotswappable array to the case and takes ATX PSU supply?
19:49<pharaun>i'm looking to move a micro-atx mobo out of a tower case into a rack case
19:52<@jed>"beck and call"
19:54<encode>heh, beckon call
19:54<encode>almost as good as "intensive purposes"
19:54<Yaakov>"Beckon call" makes sense. "Intensive purposes" doesn't.
19:54*jed twiches
19:54*jed combs the floor for the missing 't'
19:55<Yaakov>In fact, for a speaker of standard American English, "beck and call" doesn't make sense at all.
19:56<@jed>beck's an old noun, beckon is a verb - I don't think beckon call makes sense
19:56*jed shrugs
19:56<HedgeMage>"beck and call" makes better sense and is correct :P
19:56<Yaakov>"Beckon" as it is used there, is an adjectove modifying "call".
19:56<sirPengi>I'm a speaker of SAE, and I like beck and call
19:57<Yaakov>Since no modern speakers uses "beck", it is very reasonable to hear "beckon call". Most eggcorns have a rationale.
19:57<Yaakov>"Intensive purposes" is a head scratcher, though.
19:58-!-zack__ [] has quit [Quit: zack__]
19:58<@Perihelion>Beck uses beck
19:58<Yaakov>Few people learn idiom by reading it.
20:00<Bdragon>!wx k7g9
20:00<linbot>Bdragon: [metar] K7G9: not found
20:01<Bdragon>Figured as much :P
20:05-!-grubby [] has quit [Quit: */*]
20:06<Bdragon>I learned a word today
20:06<Yaakov>Sometimes you can't avoid it.
20:06-!-DesertPanther_ [~Khalid@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:06-!-libertiy [] has quit [Quit: libertiy]
20:06<@Perihelion>You know what a nice word is? Antidisestablishmentarianism.
20:07<@Perihelion>What a classy concept
20:07<golemz>did you just google 'longest word'
20:08*Bdragon mumbles something about Webster Lake
20:08-!-axod [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
20:09<encode>"intensive purposes" -> "intents and purposes"
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20:10<Yaakov>encode: Yes, that's clear.
20:11<Yaakov>The question is what the person who says it imagines it means.
20:11<SelfishMan>people don't think about that
20:11<SelfishMan>It's like "moose on the table"
20:11<SelfishMan>I'm one of those people that will stop a conversation to ask what a certain phrase means
20:12<@Perihelion>moose on the table
20:12<encode>Yaakov: I dont think they imagine it means anything
20:12<encode>or that they even imagine
20:12-!-cpg [] has joined #linode
20:12<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: Moose on the table: GO!
20:12-!-fapestniegd [] has joined #linode
20:12<@Perihelion>You know what irks me? People who say sense instead of since
20:12<@Perihelion>"sense then I blah blah blah"
20:12<Yaakov>Well, comparing "beckon call" which has a sensible interpretation close to the original, and "intensive purposes" which does not, it the context.
20:13<Yaakov>Perihelion: That's just a vowel shift.
20:13<Yaakov>Like "pin" for "pen".
20:13<encode>or "arks" instead of "ask"
20:13<@Perihelion>Aks instead of ask
20:13<@Perihelion>And liburry
20:13<Yaakov>Bye all.
20:15<encode>isn't liburry just being lazy with pronunciation?
20:15<bss>hmm, 2.6.34-linode27. xen fixes?
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20:36<SelfishMan>encode: I don't think so. I know too many people that think 'library' only has one 'r'
20:38<pharaun>SelfishMan: 0_o
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20:43<encode>yeah, I don't hear too many people pronounce that first R
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20:53<Karrde>what does "alguem ai por favor eh br ?" mean?
20:55<Karrde>all I got is "anyone please brasil"
20:57<BP{k}>that's a tall order. ;)
21:00<SelfishMan>Karrde: my portuguese is rusty as hell but there seems to be something missing from that line
21:00*SelfishMan finally finds the 'enter' key
21:04<tjfontaine>actually I think ai is related to "is there"
21:04<tjfontaine>like hay in spanish
21:05<tjfontaine>algien hay, is there someone
21:08-!-storrgie [] has joined #linode
21:08<SelfishMan>Well, if you add the diacritics that I assume should be there it would be "Alguém aí por favor"
21:08<SelfishMan>Which translates as more of a cry from the darkness of space
21:09*SelfishMan thinks it was a quiet channel and someone was asking for help but getting zero responses
21:14<SelfishMan>This really makes me trust a service:
21:15-!-internat [] has quit []
21:17<sirPengi>well, they're not advertising web development
21:17<sirPengi>but coldfusion and no html doctype?
21:19-!-nek4life [] has quit [Quit: nek4life]
21:20<SelfishMan>sirPengi: it's the fake text that bothers me
21:20<sirPengi>that's just lorem ipsum text
21:20<sirPengi>probably a placeholder that they forgot about
21:21<SelfishMan>I know, but this is supposed to be a service in production from an established company
21:21<SelfishMan>must just be me
21:21<sirPengi>it probably signals that they really don't have that many customers
21:21<@Perihelion>No, that bothers me too
21:22<@Perihelion>lipsum shouldnt be on a production site
21:23<sirPengi>I don't disagree that it's troubling, but I dunno, cfm and no doctype actually bothers me more
21:23<SelfishMan>sirPengi: don't use linode then?
21:23<@Perihelion>My issues with CF stem from some of the clients I had that used it...CF itself is okay
21:25<sirPengi>SelfishMan: nah, linode does a whole lot of other things right. negates it out
21:25<@caker>my CF is teh sex
21:26<sirPengi>there's a dangling </ul> on the linode homepage though
21:27*SelfishMan watches as sirPengi's node is deleted
21:28<praetorian>my CF brings all the girls to the yard.
21:28<praetorian>and they are like, its better than yours.
21:28<@Perihelion>I'm suddenly inspired to go play with CF for whatever reason
21:28<@Perihelion>I hate you all <3
21:29<praetorian>i have a better idea
21:29<mwalling>go edit production code live
21:29<SelfishMan>DO IT
21:29<mwalling>good way to learn
21:29<praetorian>multiplayer notepad.
21:29<@Perihelion>I don't have access to
21:29<@Perihelion>I also like my job
21:29<@Perihelion>So won't be doin that
21:29<praetorian>we won't tell caker
21:29<encode>mwalling: good way to learn what? interview skills?
21:29<@Perihelion>He'll know when the site says something like "screw you SelfishMan" or some such thing
21:30<mwalling>no, it iwll say "urmom"
21:30<SelfishMan>Perihelion: needs moar urmom
21:30<@Perihelion>They'd blame mike
21:30<@Perihelion>Actually...good idea
21:30<mwalling>thats the point
21:30*Perihelion schemes
21:30<praetorian>mm random urmum jokes
21:30<@Perihelion>There's nothing random about it
21:31<SelfishMan>!urmom mwalling
21:31-!-sirPengi [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:31<linbot>SelfishMan: Yo momma's so unpleasant she makes mwalling look like Miss Congeniality. (822:40/22) [mruom]
21:31<mwalling>all you need to do is rub your genetals on mikes machine... meh i cant tie it together
21:31<@Perihelion>Haha did you see that earlier?
21:31<mwalling>of course
21:31<SelfishMan>!speeling genetals
21:31<@Perihelion>I'm pretty sure I can't touch my keyboard anymore
21:31<mwalling>SelfishMan: seriously.
21:31<mwalling>SelfishMan: fuck. you.
21:31<SelfishMan>!sp genetals
21:31<linbot>SelfishMan: Screw you
21:32<SelfishMan>mwalling: <3
21:32-!-mwalling [] has left #linode []
21:32<@Perihelion>Was that a ragepart?
21:32<SelfishMan>Perihelion: Like, totally!
21:32<@Perihelion>/q mwalling umad
21:33<@Perihelion>Someone in here is SPYING
21:33*SelfishMan glares at mikegrb
21:34<praetorian>will urmum make me lunch
21:35<SelfishMan>Or we could go all meta and stuff
21:36-!-kronos003 [] has joined #linode
21:39-!-LK [~LK@] has joined #linode
21:39<kronos003>i have an odd question about rdiff-backup. i have 2 1tb drives drv1 is my primary and drv2 will be my backup the question is this. if i rdiff-backup a friend's drive to a directory on dvr1 and then rdiff-backup drv1 to drv2 what will happen to the special rdiff-backup files in the directory for my friend's drive? will rdiff-backup back it up as any other data or will there be trouble
21:41<pharaun> <-- is that a alright 25u rack? a friend is pushing me to go to 42u, but i think 42u is too big for me
21:42<kronos003>42u is 8ft tall from what i remember
21:43<hawk>kronos003: drv2 would have the rdiff-backup incrementals to restore drv1 rather than your friend's data directly, I guess
21:43<pharaun>i live in an apartment, and in general a nice 42u is cheaper than a 25u but, i live in apartment and would be a bitch to deal with a 42u for just 14u of gear
21:43-!-storrgie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:44<kronos003>hawk: i guess ill just have to run it - hopefull the special files for the friends rdiff backup dont lose their meaning when they in turn get backed up to another drive
21:44<kronos003>pharaun: what are you doing that requires a rack?
21:44<kronos003>i got a 42u for free a while back and have since gotton rid of it - i hardly used it
21:45<pharaun>kronos003: i have crapload of computer gear, several are already in rack case, i just have 1 more left then all of my computer are rackable
21:45<kronos003>pharaun: 25u btw should be something like 5ft tall
21:45-!-grubby [] has joined #linode
21:45<pharaun>and they are right now distributed among two wiremesh shelves and its just proving to be a nightmare to keep em sorted/etc
21:45<kronos003>pharaun: you must love your electrical bill and cooling load
21:46<pharaun>and i was thinking that it would be nice to move into an rack chasis off the wiremesh
21:46<pharaun>kronos003: naw my baseline is 60$ a month
21:46<kronos003>pharaun: i hear ya get the rack - but check craigs list and the like before you pay full price
21:46<HoopyCat>21:45 87 new messages in awaylog:
21:46<pharaun>and cooling, yeah its a bit problemic in the summer cooling wise :( but in the winter and other time of the year, it works great
21:46<pharaun>kronos003: yeah i did, most of them were 42u, just found maybe 2-3 in the boston area
21:47<kronos003>pharaun: where are you located - if you are in michigan i might have a few places you can shop for stuff like that - youll just need the means to haul it away
21:47-!-nek4life [] has joined #linode
21:47<pharaun>kronos003: boston :)
21:47<kronos003>i see - just after i pressed enter
21:47<pharaun>i'm checking craigslist again to make sure i didn't miss anything
21:48<kronos003>how much are the 42u units being offered for?
21:49<kronos003>here in michigan there is the U of M disposition center - they have all kinds of goodies - kinda like a techie/science junkstore - perhaps the local university has something similar?
21:49<pharaun>255 for a 42u, long drive, no truck. second one is A/V rack, third one is 200 buck for 24u which is close here
21:49<pharaun>kronos003: Dell 2410 24u server cabinet - $200
21:49<kronos003>pharaun: what are the designatedapplications of all you equipment?
21:50<kronos003>pharaun: this from dell or used?
21:50<pharaun>kronos003: this one is uh used
21:50<pharaun>i thought dell tends to be a bitch
21:50<pharaun>I have 2x 1u, mini-itx, really short case
21:51<pharaun>kronos003: then one of these, might get a 2nd one for a new computer after thanksgiving/christmas
21:51<kronos003>dell can be pricey - man im starting to see what a good deal that free rack was - good thing i dont host my own equipment anymore
21:51<pharaun>kronos003: yeah haha, most of my equipment is my desktop, or mini-itx cases in 1u, so those keeps the power bill lower, its the desktop that sucks it down :)
21:52<kronos003>i beleive it - ive recently become a fan of VM based consolidation
21:53<pharaun>kronos003: heh yeah, my 1u mini-itx = openvz for most of my services, other 1u is router, then 4u for desktop, and latter 2nd 4u for file server
21:53<kronos003>laptop draws 80w and does the job that i previously used 3 machines for
21:53<pharaun>that's about all i'll probably end up using
21:53<pharaun>so 42u is like a massive overkill
21:54<pharaun>kronos003: never really been a big fan of laptops myself, i have an old T42 as my laptop, it works good but it aint going to VM/do what i need it to do worth shit :)
21:54<@Perihelion>I have a 24u with 3 servers in it
21:54<kronos003>ill bet - it was for me i had a server, commercial theatre sound system, router and 3 UPS's onmine - still had a ton of room left over
21:54<@Perihelion>(one 4u, two 1u)
21:54<pharaun>Perihelion: yeah that kind of setup is what i am thinking/wants
21:54<@Perihelion>24u is about right
21:54<@Perihelion>I ebayed it for like 100 bucks
21:55<kronos003>pharaun: i bought this machine specifically for its use for virtualization
21:55<pharaun>Perihelion: ah, i found a dell one locally for 200 buck, online at newegg is a open post, 400 buck, and everything else is out of my price league or too fucking huge
21:55<@Perihelion>That's reasonable really
21:55<pharaun>kronos003: ah yeah, i tend to prefer small/light laptop so i can travel with it
21:55<kronos003>i agree if you need a rack start with a 24u - anything bigger and it better be paying you or life gets expensive
21:55<pharaun>exactly so i want a 24u ish and good enough for me
21:55<@Perihelion>Don't be too quick to dismiss the expensive ones though...things like that can be worth the cost
21:56<SelfishMan>That's what I first said about urmom
21:56<pharaun>Perihelion: yeah i know, i want something cheap for now so i can learn the system and get a better idea of what i like/want/etc
21:56<SelfishMan>Turns out she really isn't worth the money
21:56<pharaun>Perihelion: then i can learn more about it then i'll have a better idea of what i want for the next rack
21:56<@Perihelion>You tell lies.
21:56<@Perihelion>yeah at my last job we bought ones with space underneath them for UPSs and stuff
21:57<pharaun>i was thinking of just getting a shelf, put my ups on it for now
21:57<kronos003>pharaun: by the time you outgrow a 24u rack in a residential or small business setting its time to consolidate
21:57<pharaun>and then keep my eye open for a used rackmount ups
21:57<@Perihelion>They're kinda heavy
21:57<pharaun>kronos003: haha agreed, i plan to keep it at a reasonable size :) i like mini-itxs for router/vm/etc it works good
21:57<kronos003>pharaun: i have a ferupps 3.1kva im trying to get rid of
21:57<pharaun>kronos003: what kind is it
21:58<kronos003>Ferrups FER3.1kva
21:58<kronos003>rackmount - 270lbs its a beast 48v internals runs a hairdrier for 25 mins or so
21:58<kronos003>pharaun: thats the critter
21:59<pharaun>SelfishMan: hahah yes i saw
22:00<kronos003>course do you really need that much ups?
22:00<pharaun>kronos003: haha no, i got a 1500 VA ups, its at 50-80% load depending on usage
22:00<pharaun>so when i get the 2nd 4u it will be pushed over, so i was looking for something in 2000 VA or so
22:01<kronos003>nice - not bad for that small list you gave me
22:01<pharaun>yeah its the desktop that sucks down the power mainly
22:01<pharaun>its one of those old quad core
22:01-!-zack_ [] has joined #linode
22:01<kronos003>pharaun: ah yes but can it do hw virtualization?
22:02<pharaun>kronos003: yeah it does, its my desktop so i don't really do virtualization because i tend to blow the ram usage to hell
22:02<kronos003>i see
22:02<pharaun>so i'm waiting for when i get a newer desktop then i'll probably dump some more stuff onto that quad core
22:02<kronos003>what os you runnig
22:02<pharaun>it would work nicely as a file server + xen, etc
22:02<kronos003>which flavor
22:02<pharaun>mainly openBSD + linux
22:02<pharaun>ollld gentoo install :-p
22:02<@Perihelion>I have much love for Gentoo
22:02<pharaun>copied it from the previous computer, and the previous computer also
22:02<linbot>HoopyCat: Now 0% full (about 12 hours remaining). Last emptied 57 minutes ago, last full 1 hour ago after running for 11.8 hours.
22:03<HoopyCat>err, wrong device
22:03<kronos003>gentoo - you dont mess around - ive heard good things, but the learning curve is a bit higher than stuff like ubuntu or fedora
22:03<pharaun>yeah, its pretty customized
22:03<@Perihelion>It's sink or learn or you have no working system
22:03<HoopyCat>LOADPCT : 13.0 Percent Load Capacity
22:03<pharaun>Perihelion: amen
22:03<kronos003>btw i love the minimal vm install feature on ubuntu - made installing a new vm a dream
22:03<HoopyCat>thar's my 1000VA
22:04<pharaun>so yeah i think the 25u would be good, either that dell 24u for 200buck, or a 399 buck open post 25u off newegg
22:04-!-fapestniegd [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04<pharaun>don't need anything fancy would be nice to have a door/sides/etc but atm it doesn't need to be fancy
22:05<kronos003>yikes i didnt know my ferrups was still worth this much ::
22:05<pharaun>then i'll just stick with my 1500VA ups for a while more till i get a new desktop :)
22:05<@Perihelion>I'm not a fan of ones with doors unless they have ventilation
22:05<@Perihelion>more than just holes in places
22:05<@Perihelion>Some of ours had fans, some didnt
22:05<pharaun>Perihelion: yeah i want ones with holes, just would be nice to hide the wires/etc but not required
22:05<pharaun>kronos003: holy shit, way out of my price league :)
22:06<@Perihelion>If you cable it right you can make it look tidy
22:06<taupehat>good riddance,
22:06<@Perihelion>The closets at my last job were beautiful
22:06<kronos003>i was thinking of asking 1500 bux or so
22:06<taupehat>went down, came up, went down again
22:06<pharaun>kronos003: haha 1500buck that's nice, but still out of my price league :)
22:07<pharaun>i mean sure if i'm still searching for a hefty one next year i might take ya up on that offer
22:07<@Perihelion>You could live life on the edge and leave the server on the floor
22:07<kronos003>if you hit your local disposition center and dont mind buying new batteries you might find one for cheap - as long as they dont know what they have
22:07<pharaun>kronos003: hmm good idea boston should have one anyway
22:07<pharaun>looks like i might need to do some hunting for UPS/etc
22:08<pharaun>but my current one will be good enough for a while more :)
22:08<@Perihelion> \o/
22:08<pharaun>so its down to just finding the right rack, and a couple of rack shelf and ordering it and i should be set :)
22:08<taupehat> will be back soon.
22:08<taupehat>Thank you for your patience.
22:08<kronos003>make sure you test it before you buy - bad batteries are one thing but bad circuit boards are another thing entirely
22:09<pharaun>kronos003: oh dear, yeah, how would you test it?
22:09<kronos003>pharaun: also sinewave products only - do not compromise on this
22:09<pharaun>kronos003: mine right now is backup ups 1500VA, let me find it
22:09-!-internalkernel [] has left #linode [Leaving.]
22:10<praetorian>z 24
22:10<praetorian>i cant type
22:10<kronos003>plug it in - power it up and pull the plug - no load should be fine on low battery it should run for a few mins - but at the veryleast it should successfully make the switch to battery and run from there befor it dies
22:10<pharaun>kronos003: ah alright
22:12<kronos003>if the batteries are completey gone you can make your own battery and bring it along - ive cheated with 24volts worth of D cell batteries before - not sexy sure wont run for long but it should give you an idea of what if anything is wrong - just dont make the mistake of pluging a computer into the ups while its running on D cells - not enough juice for that
22:12<pharaun>kronos003: haha
22:13*kronos003 smells squarewave comming from that 1500va unit pharaun just described
22:13<pharaun>kronos003: can't find out what kind of sinewave/etc on that ups i have right now, but i got it from bestbuy my 1st year in college so probably not the best
22:13<pharaun>kronos003: yeah i think i remember seeing "modified sinewave"
22:13<ssteinerX>modified sinewave is square with some square bumps
22:14<pharaun>kronos003: its better than nothing but it works right now but i wants to get a better one
22:14<ssteinerX>some equipment freaks out
22:14<kronos003>"modified sinewave" = *slightly* better than squarewave but not by much
22:14<pharaun>yeah i figured that much
22:14<pharaun>but i was a poor college student at the time :)
22:14<ssteinerX>the smoke alarms in my last house freaked out on backup house power; modified square wave
22:14<pharaun>so looks like getting a new ups/sinewave will be a good goal after i finish setting up the rack
22:15<pharaun>i don't want to spend too much right now so i think i'll focus on getting the rack chasis, rails, and bunch of the other accessories needed then make getting a new UPS the next goal
22:15<kronos003>i have an old 1400va apc sinewave unit that i modified for extended runtime - gets about 30-45 mins in an outage - powers a tv and some network comms gear
22:15<pharaun>kronos003: ah nice
22:15<ssteinerX>kronos003: modified how?
22:16<pharaun>ssteinerX: probably just hooking up a bunch more batteries :)
22:16<ssteinerX>i used marine cells for my house
22:17<pharaun>hmm so should i try the 24u dell rack, its 200 buck and near my apt, or go ahead and go for that open post 399 rack off newegg and get it over with
22:17-!-zack_ [] has quit [Quit: zack_]
22:17<kronos003>rerouted the battery input to the power disconnect loop on the back - redid the loop so i could use it as an external battery connector and ran 2 parellel banks of 24v batterys in a batt box through 8awg cable to that port
22:17-!-snubby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
22:18<kronos003>thankfully it has a fan on its inverter heat sinks so a cooling mod wasnt also necessary
22:18<pharaun>man that dell looks a bit beaten up
22:18<kronos003>i had an old 900va unit i had to put fans in to keep it cool for a 2hr test burn
22:18<pharaun>not bad, just some dents and gouges in the side
22:18<pharaun>kronos003: seesh,
22:19<kronos003>it was shortly after the 2003 northeastern poweroutage
22:19<pharaun>that, i was in colorado at that time :) so avoided it narrowly
22:19<kronos003>i was quite determined to have enough time to get home and deal with my equipment the next time it happened
22:20<pharaun>yeah i can't with mine, its 20 minute runtime :-\
22:20-!-ssteinerX [] has left #linode []
22:20<pharaun>yeah i don't remember if its even working :)
22:20<pharaun>set it up a long time ago, outta to test it
22:21<pharaun>but with 6tb worth of data on the desktop i'm a bit wary of just unplugging the sucker
22:21<kronos003>pharaun: you could modify it - batteries can be gotten for reasonable prices on ebay
22:21-!-derekyang [] has joined #linode
22:21<pharaun>kronos003: yeah, i think it has an external battery unit to extend runtime
22:21<kronos003>just make sure you get the voltage right and fuse each bank seperately
22:21<pharaun>but since i want to move to a rackmount ups, i think its better to wait till then
22:22<pharaun>makes sense
22:22<kronos003>that way if one bank short circuits, it doesnt take everything else with it
22:23<pharaun>uhuh i think that dell has a broken wheel/support
22:23<kronos003>that and if you have multiple banks of marine cells, you wont have a nasty fire on your hands if something goes wrong
22:23<pharaun>i just noticed he is using a piece of wood to prop up one side
22:23-!-asynchro [] has joined #linode
22:24<pharaun>kronos003: hmm, i'll have to consider that :)
22:24<pharaun>should be enough room for a shelf of batteries on the bottom of an 25u rack
22:24<kronos003>beware however - you can have to many extra batteries - the charger has to be able to charge and maintain them all. there is a minimum charge current for most batteries, so youll want to keep this in mind - course you can suppliment with an external charger but once you go there you may as wel do it right and build a different settup
22:25<pharaun>ah good point
22:26<kronos003>i had a total of 75ah @ 24 volts to get that 2hr burn from what i remember - looking back i beleive the ups's charger was barely enough to cover it all
22:26<pharaun>i need to learn more about UPS :) i thought it was enough to just buy one big enough to power the equipment
22:27<kronos003>btw the ferrups i have has a 200-400w load penalty - as in it draws that much over and above your load to provide its service of interuptable power
22:27<kronos003>the apc 1400va rig i have is more like 80-100w
22:27<pharaun>didn't know that
22:28<pharaun>i thought the overhead was "fairly" minimal
22:28<kronos003>but then the ferrup is an online unit i beleive - that is it's inverter is always running
22:28<pharaun>probably is
22:28<pharaun>mine is an switched unit i think if its what you call those things
22:28<kronos003>youll need to read up on the benefits of the various tecjhnologies - they al have pros and cons
22:28-!-asynchro [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:29<kronos003>with switched units you see power flicker when the line is disrupted, but with online units, no such thing
22:29<pharaun>hmm, looks like i'll need to do some actual research for the larger rack ups when i got the money for it
22:29-!-dajhorn [] has joined #linode
22:29<pharaun>the one i got should be alright for now :)
22:29<kronos003>hence the outragious cost of that ebay auction i showed you
22:29<pharaun>haha yeah
22:30<pharaun>can probably find good use for the 1500VA one i got like a tv or some other stuff i suppose
22:30<kronos003>if it works go with it - just dont buy any more modified squarewave junk - i avoid that stuff
22:30<pharaun>yeah it works right now, but like i said before, 50-80% load
22:30<pharaun>and when i get a 2nd 4u, its a gonner
22:31<pharaun>but man it has done a pretty decent job over the year of keeping me from losing shit in brownouts
22:31<kronos003>i should put my ferrups on ebay and see what happens - so far ive only had it up on kijiji
22:31<pharaun>haha good luck :)
22:31<pharaun>wish i could get that thing
22:31<pharaun>its a monster but for my usage its probably a huge overkill
22:31-!-nek4life [] has quit [Quit: nek4life]
22:31<kronos003>what is your budget?
22:32<pharaun>i don't know on UPS yet,
22:32<pharaun>but i was hoping 1k or under?
22:32<pharaun>i know i'll need to go to atleast probably 2000VA for the 2nd 4u
22:32<kronos003>i think i could do that - there is the matter of getting it to you
22:33<pharaun>don't even want to think of the shipping haha
22:33<kronos003>you wanna come out and get it from michigan or do you want to look into a freight company
22:33<pharaun>probably can't make a long drive anytime soon unless its a weekend
22:33<kronos003>yeah - USPS would definitely find it to be in excess of their 70lbs weight limit
22:33<pharaun>how much does it weight?
22:34-!-fapestniegd [] has joined #linode
22:34<kronos003>me and 2 buddies put it on a scale before we put it in my rack - btw it will *HAVE* to go on the bottom of your rack
22:35<pharaun>haha ofc
22:35<pharaun>would be good to keep the rack stablized
22:35<kronos003>i was able climb my rack with this thing at the bottom
22:36<pharaun>haha nice
22:36<pleia2>g 83
22:36<kronos003>well if you are interested i think the next step would likely be pictures of the actual unit?
22:36<@Perihelion>nice lurk
22:36<HoopyCat>considering most of the stuff people plug into a UPS ultimately runs off of DC anyway (computers, network gear, etc), i probably would hesitate to spend too much for a true sine wave
22:36<pharaun>kronos003: agreed
22:37<HoopyCat>i'd send along pictures of my unit, but it's a little dark in here and the camera phone doesn't do it justice
22:37<pharaun>HoopyCat: right now i just got an APC 1500VA
22:37<kronos003>gimme a sec to see if i have any on my pc - otherwise ill have to wait until im infront of it next (wednesday of next week i think)
22:37<pharaun>it works but i need to upgrade it before i get the 2nd 4u
22:38<pharaun>kronos003: aha alright np, just ping me on irc when you're able to :)
22:38<kronos003>pharaun: are you usually in here?
22:38<pharaun>kronos003: yeah i got znc, linode is one of the channel i got on znc :)
22:38<pharaun>so unless my linode goes down i'll be on here
22:41<kronos003>pharaun: looks like ill have to take some more pics - none on my pc atm.
22:41<reillyeon>You know there's a serious network problem when half the channel disappears.
22:41<pharaun>kronos003: alright no problem :) do ping me and let me know
22:41<pharaun>kronos003: what kind of config is it, it does take 120v input right? i am on a house/apt wiring system afterall
22:42<kronos003>pharaun: if you have skype i may be able to do more than photos - may beable to put it on cam as well and you can see it in action before i lug it out of the basement
22:42<pharaun>yeah i got skype, will need to figure out a good time/etc
22:42<kronos003>120v input - it cam e with a 120v 30 amp plug but i put a hospital grade 120 20 amp (normal houshold) plug on it
22:43<HoopyCat>pharaun: you can use multiple UPSes too. don't just need one :-)
22:43<kronos003>has several 120v 20A recepticals on the back as well as a 120v 30A twist lock recepticla
22:43<pharaun>HoopyCat: yeah haha i know, i just think a monster one is kind of nice :)
22:43<pharaun>HoopyCat: and i was thinking of taking the 1500VA and using it on tv, other stuff
22:44<kronos003>beware its cooling mechanism is a sunon server fan - not a quiet unit
22:44<HoopyCat>kronos003: "20 amp" isn't normal household :-) hot conductor is perpendicular to neutral?
22:44<pharaun>kronos003: ah so latter on if i ever get a 30amp outlet, i could plug it in with minimal work?
22:44<pharaun>kronos003: haha i'm deaf :)
22:45<pharaun>can't be *too* loud, but if its reasonably loud, i would be fine with it :)
22:45<Bhavic>Does linode xen pv or something else?
22:46<kronos003>pharaun: its dell poweredge server kinda loud
22:46<HoopyCat>Bhavic: xen, with paravirtualization
22:46<Bhavic>Ah ok thanks!
22:46<pharaun>kronos003: heh, worked in an huge mainframe lab before, didn't bother me so should be alright :)
22:47<pharaun>kronos003: can it be plugged in the standard household 15amp outlet?
22:47<HoopyCat>kronos003: the plug fits into that with the sideways-bit and not just the vertically-bit, right? technically speaking you've already Violated Electrical Safety Rules but we'll ignore that
22:47<HoopyCat>pharaun: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO
22:47<pharaun>HoopyCat: i'm in an apartment :0
22:47<kronos003>pharaun: yes it can be pluged into a standard 15 amp outlet
22:48<kronos003>indead is pluged into one charging as we speak
22:48<HoopyCat>ship that thing over state lines without putting the 30-amp plug back on it and i wouldn't be surprised if it's a federal crime
22:48<pharaun>HoopyCat: when i get a house, i fully intend to get a closet, and equp it with an 20amp or 30amp outlet
22:48<kronos003>so i gues the correct statement is that its a 15 amp plug (rated for 20 amps from what i remember when buying it at homedepot)
22:49<kronos003>HoopyCat: i have the original 30 amp plug is thats a concern
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22:49<nb>there i think i finally got my grub menu.lst set up
22:49<SelfishMan>I usually just hack off the plug and stick the white wire in the left site and the black wire in the right side then use duct tape to hold it in
22:50<kronos003>SelfishMan: like living on the edge?
22:50-!-saikat [] has joined #linode
22:50<SelfishMan>kronos003: nah, living on the edge is just letting the green one flop around
22:50<pharaun>kronos003: what kind of 30amp outlet is it?
22:51<kronos003>i did that once with a flourescent fixture - my hair would stand on end anytime i got too close
22:51<pharaun>i'm kind of stuck cos, let me check the breaker here, i believe its 15amp
22:51<kronos003>pharaun: twistlock
22:52<pharaun>kronos003: ah yes twistlock, had those on the farm
22:52<pharaun>checked, ok living room, where i would plug it in, are 15 amp, i do have some 20amp in kitchen
22:52<pharaun>but with kitchen stuff, uhh no
22:52<kronos003>pharaun: i also have extra keys for it if you want them - i had to re do the power lock since the disposition center couldnt find the key
22:52<HoopyCat>replace the circuit, replace the equipment, but never replace the plug
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22:53<pharaun>HoopyCat: replace the plug? as in from 30 to 15amp plug?
22:54<HoopyCat>pharaun: correct. (replacing a plug because the thing got tangled in a weedwhacker is fine, of course)
22:54<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: not in a hospital
22:54<straterra>Deep fried corndogs + cold beer == heaven
22:55<amitz>I begin to feel that heaven is readily accessible to common people.
22:55<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: hospitals are an entirely different story for many reasons
22:56<HoopyCat>amitz: yes, especially those that fuck with mains ;-)
22:56<kronos003>pharaun: since the machine is heavy and youll be spending a fair amount on it i want to make sure we go over it with a fine tooth comb and make sure its everything you want it to be
22:56<pharaun>kronos003: yeah, need to figure it out, cos i'm in an apartment unit so, the 15amp outlet would be a big problem
22:57<HoopyCat>this conversation was so much better when it was "the unit" instead of "the machine"
22:57*atourino unit tests urmom
22:58<SelfishMan>I don't get it
22:58<amitz>HoopyCat: hmm, I may have missed a subtlety. I don't get it -_-
22:58<kronos003>pharaun: i run it on 15 amp service with no problem - the problem will come into play when you load it down - if you have an electric stove you can split power from it for your computer hardware if need be - i once built a box for this
22:58<atourino>you know who definitely gets it? urmom... over and over
22:58<pharaun>HoopyCat: ya think this rack is alright? <- cheap openpost 25u good enough for now :)
22:58<linbot>atourino: Yo momma's so dumb, she can't spell a. (730:10/7) [mmoru]
22:59<HoopyCat>amitz: "mains" == household electrical current, the sort one plugs their computer or toaster into
22:59<SelfishMan>a what?
22:59*atourino accidentally the whole thing
22:59<pharaun>kronos003: ah? haha yes i was looking at it, i got a dual 30 for my washer/dryer but that would be no good, then 50amp for the range
22:59*atourino is refusing to think tonight
22:59<atourino>or ever
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23:00<amitz>HoopyCat: ah :-)
23:00<kronos003>to split out power for a 120v appliance the dryer or range recepticle need to be the 4 pin variety ie -120 +120 neuteral ground
23:00<HoopyCat>pharaun: that's a nice rack, but i might recommend checking around your local telecom liquidator first to cut down on shipping and cost
23:01<pharaun>HoopyCat: yeah, i found a dell rack on craigslist but its beat to hell and there's no other ones in the area, rest are 42u
23:01<atourino>urmom has a nice rack
23:01<SelfishMan>atourino: booo! too easy
23:01<kronos003>pharaun: i tottally agree with HoopyCat
23:01<pharaun>HoopyCat: yeah, how would i "find" these local telcom liquidator?
23:01<atourino>SelfishMan: just like urmom
23:01<pharaun>looks like i'll go ahead and order some accessories/etc and hold off on the actual rack unit itself till i have time to look around
23:02<HoopyCat>pharaun: craigslist is a pile of whores and dickbags that are barely worth entertainment value
23:02-!-ganja____ [~ganja@2001:470:1f07:99f:1:2:3:4] has joined #linode
23:02<pharaun>HoopyCat: haha, i never bought anything from craigslist, people were telling me to check it out, found jack shit :-p
23:02<atourino>seriously... I think my brain shut down after having some awesome cheesecake... Im riding a high
23:02<HoopyCat>pharaun: if you were in rochester, i'd say pics telecom on lyell ave is worth a shout. outside of rochester, hmm
23:03<pharaun>HoopyCat: yeah i'm in boston haha
23:03-!-ganja____ [~ganja@2001:470:1f07:99f:1:2:3:4] has quit []
23:03<pharaun>kind of wish i got some of this stuff in rochester
23:03<pharaun>cos i knew the area better
23:04<HoopyCat>pharaun: yeah, i used to hate four-post half-racks because they took up too much space and we could never get rid of 'em :-)
23:04<pharaun>HoopyCat: haha, yeah i want to get something reasonable, 24u or something
23:04<amitz>fwiw, I used to read about a daughter who advertised her mom in craiglist. Her mom was supposedly lonely, and a bit fat. But there was the emphasize that her mom was nice..
23:05<pharaun>none of those massive 42u, too damn big, cos my gear is going to be 2x4u, 2x 1u, + switches, couple others
23:06<pharaun>HoopyCat: i'm wondering how common half height racks like 25u would be at the telco liquidators, i would think 42u would be most common?
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23:08<HoopyCat>pharaun: try contacting one or more of these upstanding organizations: ... i find our local hackerspace crew is generally really good for "where can i get $foo?" questions
23:08<pharaun>oh really? nice
23:09<pharaun>HoopyCat: what are hackspace anyway? i'm curious
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23:10<HoopyCat>pharaun: telecom stuff tends to be mostly front-supported (take a look at your switches, for instance), so 42U two-post racks are most common. however, there's a place for half-racks and four-post racks, too
23:10<pharaun>HoopyCat: yeah, i know, i've seen some telcom stuff,
23:10<amitz>I was about to question about some weird notations in the personal portion of craiglist. Just found out, woah... just woah.
23:10<pharaun>yeah my switch is a small one, its front supported
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23:11<pharaun>biggest issue would be the 4u, the case i'm looking at is 27inch deep
23:11<HoopyCat>pharaun: sort of a community lab kind of thing, generally containing both a community and a lab. so far, through my tangental involvement with our local hackerspace, i've acquired two hops plants and become someone who can wing a 5-minute presentation in front of like 40 people
23:12<pharaun>aha nice :)
23:12<HoopyCat>it's basically the geek club, grown up :-)
23:13<pharaun>sweet, looks like i'll be sending out some emails asking on the rack/telco/etc
23:13<pharaun>if i can't find any that works i can always get the 25u openpost one off newegg
23:13<kronos003>pharaun: i have a small rack on wheels hat im debating on whether i need after i pull the ferrups out of it im not sure how many u it is but itll fit the ferrups twice i think
23:13<pharaun>its not too bad cost wise but
23:13<kronos003>i think i spent 75 bux on it
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23:14<pharaun>kronos003: ferrups == 4-5u?
23:14<kronos003>not sure
23:14<kronos003>ill have to check
23:14<HoopyCat>pharaun: nod, a rack is one of those things that -- with luck -- you can occasionally find someone who says "if you come and get it, it's yours... my wife will be so happy"
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23:15<kronos003>ill show it to you in the pics and cam - by then ill figure out if i still need it
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23:15<pharaun>HoopyCat: haha alright
23:15<HoopyCat>p.s. if anyone is looking for a nice sun monitor of modest vintage, if you come and get it, it's yours... my wife will be so happy
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23:15<pharaun>kronos003: alright, sounds good, going to have to figure out if its safe enough for me to get that thing hooked up
23:16<pharaun>cos i know that some places skimp on wiring sometime >_>
23:16<pharaun>IE i've lived in houses that tried to run like 2 floor worth of power to 1 or two 20 amp breakers
23:16<pharaun>or some other nastyness
23:17<pharaun>yeah i got *out* of that house.... asap
23:17<HoopyCat>eh, as long as the breaker trips when it should, it's safe ;-)
23:18<HoopyCat>(note: breakers have a finite lifespan and should, technically speaking, be replaced after they trip)
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23:18<pharaun>HoopyCat: yes but 15-20amp breakers with.... 2 prog wires that are 50+ years old ?
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23:18<pharaun>that still used paper wrapping and etc
23:18<pharaun>no grounding, etc
23:19<HoopyCat>may not be legal for rental properties, but that's a different pile of regulations
23:19<pharaun>and needless to say, the breaker.... went off... almost... weekly to monthly
23:19<pharaun>at the best of times *sigh*
23:19<pharaun>HoopyCat: the guy was a bit shady
23:19<pharaun>HoopyCat: but it wasn't me who set it up and etc, i was "informed" after the fact
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23:20<pharaun>HoopyCat: i went in, looked around, the house looked alright, didn't think of checking the power system, etc, but i was kind of assuming that it would be some what... "legal"
23:20<pharaun>it was after i moved in when i discovered how big of a disaster the whole house was
23:21<pharaun>HoopyCat: and don't get me started on 19th ward houses -_-
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23:24<HoopyCat>pharaun: rented a duplex up in 14609 that... had some grounding issues, to the point that i ended up running a ground bus from the living room through the dining room to the cold water pipe in the kitchen
23:24<pharaun>HoopyCat: hahaha yes, i did the same actually :)
23:25<pharaun>HoopyCat: my dad and i bought some 15amp extension cords, cut off the grounding plug, and wired up an junction box
23:25<pharaun>and then i attached a grounding wire to that junction box and ran it all the way to the bathroom pipes
23:25<pharaun>cold pipe ofc
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23:26<kronos003>pharaun: the one place they cant skimp is the range and the dryer - you can build a box to share these outlets if needbe. just dont use anything thinner than 12awg extension cord and use 8awg in the box and you should be good
23:26<HoopyCat>pharaun: one of those situations where you just had to close your eyes and focus on your happy place when hooking up the CATV coax because otherwise the sparks and tingling sensations would get the best of you
23:26<pharaun>HoopyCat: had problem with grounding loops?
23:27<pharaun>kronos003: but if i max out the UPS + cook something, wouldn't that be... troublesome :-p
23:27<pharaun>not that i would be able to really anytime soon at all
23:28<HoopyCat>pharaun: yup (we had a bunch of synths and sequencers and turntables and computers and shit in the dining room and a hella sound system in the living room). also, the microwave oven was close enough to the sink that Something Had To Be Done After That One Time Someone Touched Both At The Same Time
23:28<HoopyCat>probably coulda called the landlord, actually, but we'd have to hide all of the bongs and shit
23:28<pharaun>HoopyCat: seesh, microwave... was not grounded? >_>
23:29<pharaun>HoopyCat: hahaha :-p yeah our landlord would not do jack shit so i just fixed up shit myself
23:29<HoopyCat>pharaun: outlet the microwave was plugged into was not grounded to the same thing the kitchen sink considered ground
23:29<pharaun>HoopyCat: speaking of the devil, i have been looking around for one of those inverted 20amp extension cord at 90 degree angles
23:29<pharaun>most of them have the ground toward the bottom, i have not been able to find ones with it on the top, found any?
23:29<HoopyCat>wait, what?
23:30<pharaun>HoopyCat: ah right, grounding loop issues, haven't ran into that one yet but i could see how it would be bas
23:30<HoopyCat>i think i need pictures of that which you are referring to, because "rotate 180 degrees" probably isn't the answer
23:30<pharaun>HoopyCat: <- osmething like that, just not "rotating": but with the ground plug on top, and the cord going downward
23:31<pharaun>in hindsight i could probably find it online, but most of the homedepot/lowels didn't have that kind of extension, just the other one with the grounding pin on the bottom
23:32<SelfishMan>pharaun: rotate the outlet?
23:32<pharaun>SelfishMan: i do, but just would be nice to find one that has the grounding pin on top
23:33<pharaun>SelfishMan: was just asking out of lazyness :) cos everytime i move i have to unrotate a few outlets, and etc
23:34<pharaun>SelfishMan: i like 90 degree extension cord so i can pack things close to the wall
23:34<pharaun>without dealing with gaps/etc
23:34<HoopyCat>huh, weird. haven't seen those before.
23:34<SelfishMan>not that part, not sure why you have to unrotate them
23:34<pharaun>HoopyCat: really?
23:34<pharaun>SelfishMan: oh inspection, cos they are supposed to have ground port up here. EVERY single place i've went to have the grounding port upward here
23:35<HoopyCat>most of the extension cords i deal with are the sticks-straight-out orange-as-a-reddit-privmsg can-electrocute-an-elephant sort
23:35<HoopyCat>and yeah, ground goes towards the top, apparently, for various reasons
23:35<pharaun>HoopyCat: haha, i like 90 degree so i don't; have to worry about shit hitting it and bending it, or having to have air gap/etc
23:36<pharaun>HoopyCat: yeah so i was just wondering cos most 90's i found are with the ground on the bottom
23:36<HoopyCat>pharaun: i usually don't have 'em plugged in that long
23:36<kronos003>pharaun: i ran 20+20 amps and surprisingly never had a problem with using the stove at the same time. though ive only used one or 2 burners at a time
23:36<pharaun>its not critical cos i can turn the outlet around and plug it in, but yeah, its just pain in the ass
23:36<pharaun>HoopyCat: hahah i use heavy duty extension cord to hook up my UPS to the outlet
23:36<pharaun>kronos003: ah true
23:38<pharaun>kronos003: i tend to use 1-2 most of the time, but sometime i do end up doing all 4
23:38<HoopyCat>people need to buy frickin' houses here
23:38<HoopyCat>electric stoves? seriously?
23:39<amitz>coobra: hello, how can we help you?
23:39<HoopyCat>coobra: hello!
23:39<encode>HoopyCat: are you discriminating against those of us that prefer to buy apartments?
23:39<coobra>just showing you all respect and say "hello" :D
23:39<amitz>HoopyCat: I hate house. Too many things to deal with.
23:40<pharaun>HoopyCat: i'm still young :-p 25, i want a house someday just so i can do CORRECT/custom wiring like 30amp to a server closet
23:40<HoopyCat>encode: i'm just sayin'... how long's it take to bake cookies in the ezbake with the landlord's cheapo CFLs?
23:40<HoopyCat>anyway, off to bed!
23:40<pharaun>HoopyCat: i don't know how long i'll stay in the area anyway :-p so its better to do apartments for now :)
23:40<encode>HoopyCat: no idea. I'm unfamiliar with the term ezbake, and the acronym CFL
23:41<amitz>HoopyCat: how much/long have you spent on lawn. On insects. On pests.
23:41<pharaun>amitz: i would just get astroturf
23:41<pharaun>problem solved
23:41<pharaun>i fucking hate mowing lawns
23:41<coobra>time to start on ses4 on stargate-sg1
23:41<amitz>on maintenance.
23:41<pharaun>coobra: haha awesome! :)
23:42<amitz>pharaun: I like a readily furnish and cleaned everyday apartment. Too bad wifey hates that.
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23:43<pharaun>amitz: hahahah!
23:43<pharaun>amitz: my apartment right now is quite NICE, just can't rewire the eletrical system :(
23:43<amitz>pharaun: you mean... uh...legally? :-p
23:44<pharaun>amitz: exactly, i might be a bit of a chickenshit but i tend to like to do things.... generally in the general direction of legally :-p
23:45<pharaun>amitz: if i have to i can do some.... uh not legal stuff but generally i refrain from doing so :)
23:45<kronos003>pharaun: with 4 burners i anticipate you being fine - though if you build a box put 20 amp breakers on the outlets you use to send power to your ups - the stove passthru doesnt need to be fused - just use heavy guage wire - if need be i can walk you through setup and possibly show you an example depending on where i am when you need assistance
23:45<amitz>you do know that you can always extend more cable externally? I kind of half expected the building code doesn't consider that approach ;-)
23:46<pharaun>kronos003: ah, that's interesting
23:46*Boss farts
23:46<Boss>. o O ( pardon.. )
23:46<pharaun>kronos003: probably would need to check the specs of the stove but yeah can look into that
23:47<amitz>oh no, the fart makes the short circuit explode! Damn you Boss!
23:47<pharaun>too bad i can't bond 2x 15amp cos i have 2 lightly loaded 15amp grid... ah well
23:48<pharaun>but i already know that there's.. problems with *that* approach also ha
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23:49<kronos003>pharaun: the breaker in the stove should be 50 amps
23:49<pharaun>kronos003: it is, i checked the breaker box, its 50amp
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23:51<Craighton>I followed the guid to install SSL and I keep getting a make_socket bind error
23:51<sirPengi>Craighton: which guide are you following?
23:53<sirPengi>Craighton: in what context are you getting this error?
23:53<Craighton>when I try to start apache
23:54<sirPengi>could you pastebin the console output?
23:55<sirPengi>that's more helpful
23:55<sirPengi>that's saying you have something else already listening on :443
23:55<Craighton>I know and I can
23:56<Craighton>I know and I can't figure out what
23:58<sirPengi>try a `nmap -sT -O localhost`
23:59<sirPengi>(assuming you're on centos)
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has joined #linode
23:59<Craighton>debian I have
23:59<sirPengi>you need to be su
23:59-!-bss [] has quit [Quit: brb]
23:59<sirPengi>debian should have nmap as well
23:59<sirPengi>well, that's a conjecture there
---Logclosed Sat Jul 17 00:00:07 2010