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#linode IRC Logs for 2010-11-27

---Logopened Sat Nov 27 00:00:58 2010
00:01<@Perihelion>perhaps we should +q him before midnight
00:01<linbot>G: Point (0.02731287, 0.06096668) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17330 of 22052 (π ≈ 3.143479049519318 - 0.001886395929525)
00:03-!-Majes [~Majes@] has joined #linode
00:03<grossss>how can i configure 2 domain in ubuntu 10.04 LTS?
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00:07<ido>grossss: configure 2 domains to do what?
00:09<dcraig>to be configured
00:09<ido>clearly, dcraig
00:10<G>grossss: I recommend learning ancient voodoo arts, they will help guide you to the answer (at least asking more detailed questions)
00:10<mwalling>ido: hes been asking the same thing over and over again
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00:10*Perihelion prepares the goat
00:11<ido>mwalling: oh, okay.
00:11<G>Perihelion: Chickens or dolls will surfice
00:11<ido>oh jeez, he's an ispconfig user.
00:11<ido>that explains everything.
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00:27<blaines_>any staff here?
00:27<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
00:27<blaines_>k well I never got my appsumo email
00:28<blaines_>any help would be appreciated
00:29<@ericoc>blaines_: you should get an e-mail within 24-48 hours of buying the bundle
00:29<@ericoc>with credentials to log in
00:29<blaines_>ericoc: yeah, it's been longer
00:30<blaines_>ericoc: nov 23rd
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00:31<@ericoc>have you contacted appsumo about it?
00:31-!-b0tz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:32<blaines_>uh no? I wasn't sure who to contact. I have my appsumo email though, just nothing from linode
00:37<blaines_>ericoc: okay I just sent an email to service@
00:41<tonyyarusso>blaines_: what is this service you're talking about?
00:43<blaines_>tonyyarusso: appsumo? linode?
00:43<tonyyarusso>appsumo, yeah
00:43<@ericoc>appsumo badass developer bundle
00:43<@ericoc>was a promotion, it's over now i believe
00:45<@ericoc>blaines_: even though it's over, that doesn't mean we won't be able to fix you up
00:47<blaines_>ericoc: oh I wasn't worried
00:47<blaines_>ericoc: thanks, hopefully it doesn't take too long, have a few things I'd like to try out
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00:48-!-ido is now known as Guest656
00:48-!-ido_ is now known as ido
00:49<@ericoc>blaines_: holiday weekend, i can't guarantee anything on timeline :/ sorry
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00:51<blaines_>ericoc: lol yeah I'm thinking like monday anyway
00:52<blaines_>so do I just get $60 credit or is it some kind of package?
00:52<blaines_>was I supposed to create a linode account?
00:52<@ericoc>the e-mail that should have gone out would have had credentials to let you log in
00:52<@ericoc>the account would have a $60 credit that you could use as you please
00:52<blaines_>oh okay
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00:59<linodesucks>I wish to cancel my linode like now
00:59<linodesucks>the staff sucks
00:59<Fieldy>submit a ticket
00:59<linodesucks>i have... they refuse to respond
00:59<purrdeta>or you know... just use the cancel button :P
00:59<Fieldy>i doubt that.
00:59<linodesucks>they shut down my linode for no reason... won't let me have my fucking data
00:59*Fieldy waves off da troll
01:00<linodesucks>some shithead submitted a dmca complaint and linode wouldnt even tell me what i had to remove to comply and then shut me down
01:00<linodesucks>i want to move my websites elsewhere... but the fuck heads at linode won't even let me do that
01:01<bliblok>Maybe it's because you're so damn rude.
01:01<linodesucks>im so damn rude because im loosing money
01:01<purrdeta>Also, this is a community support channel so its really not helping you at all here :P
01:01<linodesucks>my server has been down for six hours and linode has not done shit
01:01<Fieldy>due to violating the law? who's fault is that. and you didn't have backups?
01:01-!-ido [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
01:01<linodesucks>i didnt violate the law
01:01<linodesucks>its a false dmca complain
01:02-!-ido [] has joined #linode
01:02<linodesucks>fuck this shit... im going to go to caker's house if i have too
01:03<amitz>urmom already did.
01:04-!-ido [] has quit []
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01:04<linodesucks>i had to fly back home to handle this shit
01:05<linodesucks>linode is going to court
01:05<Fieldy>troll smarter, not harder.
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01:08<linodesucks>im leaving right now for NJ... i think this needs to be handled in person
01:08<G>linodesucks: have you tried phoning them?
01:09<linodesucks>yes all they do is rickroll the hell out of you and going to voicemail
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01:09<linodesucks>if they would of provided me with what needed to be removed i would of done so... but they did not even do that
01:09<purrdeta>wait wait... so you're going from Michigan to NJ for this?
01:10<linodesucks>when its costing you your income its worth it
01:10<brynjolf>Anyone had problems with tmux on their VPS? I can only run it as root for some absurd reason
01:11<purrdeta>heh I suppose
01:14<amitz>i guess have a safe flight then!
01:15<linodesucks>no im driving
01:15<linodesucks>right now I'm checking if my CCW is applicable in NJ
01:16<@pparadis>linodesucks: it isn't.
01:16<linodesucks>apparently not... so i guess im going to have to call the police when i get there
01:16-!-mode/#linode [+b *!*linodesuc@*] by pparadis
01:16-!-linodesucks was kicked from #linode by pparadis [linodesucks]
01:16<@heckman>damn, you are quicker than I am...
01:16<purrdeta>whats a CCW?
01:16<@pparadis>concealed carru
01:16<@heckman>permit to carry a concealed weapon
01:16<@pparadis>carry even
01:16<purrdeta>oh lol wow
01:17<@pparadis>"that just got logged"
01:17<@heckman>I think that falls under terroristic threats.
01:17<@pparadis>i think it does.
01:17<purrdeta>I think so.
01:17<purrdeta>interesting fellow.
01:18<purrdeta>You evil linode staff :(
01:21<amitz>now is a slow time. you deprived me of entertainment -_-
01:21<@pparadis>sorry, man :)
01:25<SelfishMan>mwalling: wutido
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01:26<techhelper1>pparadis: now you can call a threat
01:26<techhelper1>to the police
01:27<techhelper1>just ask an oper for the ip address
01:27<@pparadis>oh i know :)
01:27<@pparadis>there's actually a police station *right* across the street from our office.
01:27<techhelper1>give ya something to do on your break, lol
01:27<@pparadis>like you walk out the door and "there it is"
01:27<@ericoc>they're very observant too, they've talked to me twice previously
01:27<@pparadis><-- me too
01:27<techhelper1>what really happens in the office
01:27<@pparadis>and here i am in GA
01:28<techhelper1>someone should upload a video
01:28<@pparadis>techhelper1: you mean the office or the special members only club?
01:28<techhelper1>tour and explanation of the linode office
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01:28-!-mode/#linode [+b *!*theysuck@*] by pparadis
01:28-!-theysuck was kicked from #linode by pparadis [theysuck]
01:28<techhelper1>i am guessing the special members clib is a joke right ?
01:29<@pparadis>ask mikegrb
01:29<techhelper1>is that someone who buys 10 linodes ?
01:29-!-adaml [] has joined #linode
01:29<amitz>read: ericoc was suspected ;-)
01:29-!-adaml [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:30<techhelper1>or is that tender of owning a vps for along time
01:30<@ericoc>i didnt do it!
01:30<@ericoc>wait, suspected of what? :p
01:30<techhelper1>webserver1 is ?
01:30<techhelper1>redunency of the main website ?
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01:31<techhelper1>adaml is linodesucks ericoc
01:32<techhelper1>hostmask matches
01:32<@heckman>yes it does
01:32<@heckman>But we'll wait.
01:33<adaml>actually im his brother
01:33<adaml>i came on to find out what the hell is going on
01:33<techhelper1>anyone can change the ident and nickname
01:33<techhelper1>or really just change your nickname
01:34<techhelper1>since you are using the webchat
01:34*heckman eats an XXL chalupa
01:34<ariel>* @heckman eats an XXL dick
01:34<adaml>techhelper1: yes they can... but i came back with him from out grandparents to help him with this
01:34<adaml>is there someone from support i can talk too?
01:34<techhelper1>i’m not buyin'
01:34<@pparadis>adaml: we cannot discuss a customer's account status with anyone else.
01:35<adaml>if I have him submit a support ticket saying its okay would that be acceptable?
01:35<adaml>by the way - your irc chat on is not working... java error
01:36<@pparadis>we also cannot discuss any account details over unauthenticated channels, such as IRC.
01:36<@pparadis>the support ticket system is the best means of communication.
01:36<adaml>how can I as a non client use your ticket system?
01:36<techhelper1>we see you are here by the linode chat, and there is 2 chats, just try the other to see if you can connect
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01:36<@pparadis>the customer can provide login credentials to the linode manager.
01:36<techhelper1>like that is how you are here now
01:37<adaml>no im using
01:37<@heckman>adaml: Did you click Yes at the Java permission box?
01:37<@heckman>On the linode site?
01:37<adaml>yes i clicked yes... a java error came up
01:37<@heckman>Yeah, the box asks if you want to block it from running..
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01:37<adaml>alright hang on... let me see if i can figure your support system out
01:37<techhelper1>needs to update java, let alone i never liked pjirc
01:38<G>#linode requires a PDN (Popcorn Distribution Network) :P
01:38<techhelper1>you have to have the original support person figure it out
01:38<@pparadis>adaml: if you can log into the linode manager, you can view any ticket history on an account from the "support" tab.
01:38<adaml>he logged me in... it says access denied
01:38<adaml>Access denied
01:39<adaml>ok I see the support link... it works
01:39<G>techhelper1: btw, instead of reporting to the Police, wouldn't it be better reporting to DHS, don't they like maintain things like No Fly Lists etc?
01:39<techhelper1>i wonder if someone is in the linode office now
01:39<adaml>G: No they just take naked pics and molest you
01:39<adaml>and no hes not on his way over...
01:39<adaml>my appologies for what happened
01:40<G>you know, Windows sure makes me laugh... '1 program still needs to close: (Waiting for) explorer.exe: Playing logoff sound..."
01:41<@heckman>It usually happens when one of the modules is involved with someone.
01:42<adaml>i submitted a ticket
01:43<techhelper1>hi ericoc
01:45<techhelper1>that call was awkward for me ericoc
01:45<techhelper1>but thanks
01:45<@ericoc>told you tickets were bestest
01:45<techhelper1>i preffer tslk
01:45<techhelper1>because the person will have the customer on the mind
01:45<techhelper1>to talk and get this solve instantly
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01:46<adaml>how long until I can get a reply to the ticket?
01:46<techhelper1>usually 5 minutes tops
01:46<techhelper1>ericoc: was it the same person or new account
01:47<adaml>thankyou and i appologize about this...
01:47<adaml>theres much more going on then your all aware...
01:47<techhelper1>what originally happened
01:48<techhelper1>Hank: YOUR A BUM!
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02:06<tonyyarusso>amitz: Too late - you missed the 23 second window.
02:08<amitz>oh.. dang
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02:12<Binoj>Hello, I need advice in choosing datacenter location
02:13<@heckman>Binoj: You can use the Linode speedtest to see which datacenter works best for your current location.
02:14<@heckman>You can also choose it based on the location where most of the people, whom are going to be accessing the linode, are from
02:14<@heckman> -- the speed test
02:14<Binoj>heckman: Thank you. But should i take the speed test often to determine which is best?
02:15<@heckman>Well, all the speed test will do is show which location offers the best upload to your current location.
02:15<Binoj>Most of the people visiting my sites are from India
02:15<@heckman>Then you would probably want to go with London, UK.
02:15<@heckman>But, if you are located in India, you could see which center offers the best transfer for you.
02:15<@heckman>Simply by downloading the file.
02:17<Binoj>Oh. thank you heckman! most of the tests i ran show poor speeds in london server :( maybe due to my ISP or some other issue. Fremont is fast
02:17<Binoj>but i have not run the speedtest download from the lnode site
02:18<Binoj>will do the test and see what's best. Thanks for the support :)
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02:22<jinso>Caker what happened to the Features page getting the screenshots updated?
02:22<@heckman>It's in progress. =]
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02:23<jinso>Okay well i am bored so has the topic of KVM been talked about much?
02:23<marius>Is there any documentation for the stackscripts? Or do they use refular shell commands
02:24<@caker>marius: they use whatever you code
02:24<marius>oh hawt <3
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02:39<@heckman>An evening I shall never forget
02:39<@heckman>For reasons I wish I would
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02:41<nate>They need to be focusing on their long-promised FiOS rollouts in other areas before they start boasting new records in all honesty
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02:44<amitz>I need a fucking reliable internet connection.
02:45<marius>yes, yes you do
02:46<amitz>marius: you're my affirmation, the drop of water in this dry world.
02:47<marius>I'm making my very first stackscript :3
02:47<@ericoc>marius: i made one about a month ago for the first time
02:48<marius>was it fun? :P
02:48<@ericoc>i got much more familiar with sed than i used to be
02:48<amitz>it's funner to make a stacscript that write an ncurse program that can choose which stackscript to deploy!
02:48<marius>I like how you can include other SS'es as libraries :D
02:48<@ericoc>it's handy too, i got to use it last week when re-deploying a friend's linode who gave his root password to some girl who blew away /dev /bin and /etc
02:49<marius>why did he give her his root password
02:49<marius>that's like sex without protection!
02:49<@ericoc>he was also running ftp
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02:50<amitz>somehow my mood goes downhill due to bad internet connection...
02:51<@ericoc>amitz: i can understand that
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02:51<amitz>ericoc: I'm glad I'm not alone :-)
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02:51<marius>me too!
02:52<karlyn>how can i use multiple hostname in ispconfig using ubuntu 10.04
02:53<marius>I'm basically using the minecraft stackscript and expanding it
02:53<dcraig>waaaait... you have to pay 5 EUR to download the ispconfig manual?
02:53<marius>because it's kinda basic and ubuntu only xD
02:53<dcraig>what is this thing!?
02:54<karlyn>dcraig havent paid yet
02:54<dcraig>might be a good investment
02:54<karlyn>dcraig plan to but, ok thanks
02:54<dcraig>I'd never heard of ispconfig until someone mentioned it earlier today
02:55<karlyn>dcraig oh, but is ispconfig good enough? im newbies
02:56<dcraig>I have no idea
02:56<dcraig>I'd go for something with free documentation
02:56<karlyn>dcraig what do you prefer?
02:56<marius>ISPConfig looks pretty, I'll give it that
02:57<dcraig>I don't have any experience with these admin control panels
02:57<marius>But I didn't know it cost money, I thought it was a free alternative :o
02:57<dcraig>the manual costs money
02:57<purrdeta>Last I used was ISPConfig 2... I liked it
02:57<dcraig>I think the program itself is free
02:57<marius>ahh, I see
02:58<marius>they are charging for the manual to pay to hire a deveoper to work on ISPConfig
02:58<marius>that doesn't sound promising at all tbh...
02:58<purrdeta>use that instead :P
02:58<dcraig>the first link on that page is to the manual you have to pay for :p
02:58<dcraig>apparently the installation tutorials are free
02:59<marius>they'd never get new users if you had to pay to figure out the install process :P
02:59<marius>this reminds me I was gonna test out ISPConfig3
02:59<karlyn>dcraig so what control panel do you prefer to a newbie like me?
02:59<purrdeta>Yeah having to pay for a manual is kind of weird to me
02:59<dcraig>I have no idea
02:59<dcraig>is webmin good?
02:59<purrdeta>Webmin is alright
03:00<dcraig>is the manual free? :D
03:00<purrdeta>yes :P
03:00<marius>dcraig: I HATED it when I used it tbh =/
03:00<dcraig>that might be a good choice then
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03:00<dcraig>uh oh...
03:00<dcraig>marius hated it
03:00<dcraig>so karlyn, I dunno what to tell ya :p
03:00<marius>granted that was because it kept screwing with my bind setup :P
03:00<techhelper1>ericoc: are you at the office, or did you answer over house/gv
03:00<dcraig>doesn't bind deserve to be screwed with?
03:00<marius>if you don't have a custom bind setup to begin with I won't speak poorly of it :P
03:00<marius>as it did what it was supposed to besides that
03:01<karlyn>if i will use nginx what control panel do yo prefer?
03:01<dcraig>oh god
03:01<marius>karlyn, if your a newbie I'd say "don't pick nginx"... but that's just me
03:02<dcraig>wikipedia's comparison chart doesn't include nginx
03:02<marius>well, isn't nginx relatively new?
03:02<marius>I'm staying away form wikipedia for the time being
03:02<marius>the new header image bothers me
03:02<karlyn>marius have you used webmin in ubuntu 10.04?
03:02<dcraig>google says webmin works with nginx
03:02<purrdeta>I have webmin now... I use it when I'm feeling extremely lazy
03:02<marius>karlyn, I have not
03:03<dcraig>marius, seriously? I never tire of that face
03:03<karlyn>purrdeta in what distro you are using that?
03:03<purrdeta>Arch Linux.
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03:04<marius>I haven't really -used- a control panel since I first tried linux 8 or 9 years ago... I've installed webmin once since then, can't rememebr why, but I do most things manually, with the exception of some custom stuff I wrote to make life easier
03:04<karlyn>but they said nginx is much better than apache?
03:04<dcraig>I think it depends on what you're doing
03:05<dcraig>if you don't have a specific reason for using nginx, maybe you should use apache
03:05<dcraig>when you're ready for nginx, you'll know it
03:05<dcraig>or something
03:05<dcraig>I guess
03:05<karlyn>what am i doing is just using the server to serve wordpress
03:06<marius>you don't pick nginx, nginx picks you, young padwan.
03:06<marius>karlyn, I have nginx on my latesst linode, and I barely got it serving php pages, which I found to be a hellish process
03:06<marius>I've yet to make it SEF...can't figure out the rewrite rules etc
03:06<marius>since wordpress is pretty much "built for" apache
03:07<karlyn>marius, right rather use apache then
03:07<marius>Survivorman just ate the eye of a seal...ewww
03:07<karlyn>still buggling my mind what do i use because im totally newbie
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03:13<karlyn>is anybody can help stepby step installing webmin+ubuntu 10.04 ?
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03:14<marius>!library webmin
03:14<linbot>marius: 1. Manage Services with Webmin on Fedora 13 ( - 2. Manage Services with Webmin on CentOS 5 ( - 3. Manage Services with Webmin on Debian 5 (Lenny) (
03:15<marius>ignore it says 9.10, the process is the same :P
03:15<BP{k}>karlyn: buy me that and you'll have a deal ;)
03:15<dcraig>would you take a $5k bottle instead?
03:16<marius>I would.
03:16<BP{k}>yeah sure.
03:16<BP{k}>heck make it a laphroaig quarter cask, a bottle of gin and vermouth and a pot of olives ... ;)
03:16<BP{k}>and I'll do it once I am sober ;)
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03:18<karlyn>BP bankcrupt
03:18<marius>BP is bankrupt?
03:19<BP{k}>lies! ;)
03:19*dcraig slaps bp{k} around a bit with a large oil-covered swamp-eel
03:19<karlyn>BP yeah im newbie tryin to learn, ;)
03:20<karlyn>marius is that guide to webmin straightforward?
03:20<dcraig>it's convoluted and full of hidden traps
03:20<marius>karlyn: everythign in the library is
03:21<dcraig>but at least now you've been warned
03:21<marius>I wonder if there's a stackscript for it xD
03:22<karlyn>what is the difference on virtualmin and webmin?
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03:30<tonyyarusso>Question for the crowd: What ticket/issue/bug systems do you guys use for internal deployments?
03:31<marius>email from bitching people and my email client :P
03:31<@ericoc>isn't trac common
03:32<G>tonyyarusso: sneakernet+paper
03:32<G>and post-its
03:32<G>unbeatable combination :P
03:32<tonyyarusso>ericoc: yes, trac is a big one.
03:33<tonyyarusso>Astoundingly, last I checked Trac wasn't capable of opening a ticket by e-mail, which is sort of a big deal.
03:33<@ericoc>flyspray, bug genie, egroupware, redmine, mantis :p
03:33<tonyyarusso>again, last I checked, and according to where I checked - I could be wrong, and I'd loved to be proven so.
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03:34<G>oh what, Americans don't have normal broadcasting on Thanksgiving weekend?
03:34<G>tonyyarusso: it is
03:34<@ericoc>i'm not really willing to set up trac to test it :p
03:34<G>tonyyarusso: but it's only via a plugin, and well massive spam issues
03:35<tonyyarusso>G: ah, interesting
03:38<G>tonyyarusso: looks like
03:38<linbot>New news from forums: Anyone running info@hand CRM on Linode? in General Discussion <>
03:43<G>tonyyarusso: yeah must be, thats the one Fedora has it's repos, so it must be what they used on Fedora Hosted :)
03:49<marius>well, this is an unforseen difficulty xD
03:51<marius>I need to download a file, but the file is server by a load balancing can I send a request to that page and then download the file the page servers me?
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03:55<linbot>New news from forums: Ubuntu 10.10/Python 3.1.2/Django 1.2.3 in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
03:56<amitz>G: everything comes to a halt in us at thanksgiving..
03:57<amitz>you better have some food stocked if you don't want to die for lack of food ;-)
03:58<G>amitz: just disappointed that I won't get my Grey's Anatomy fix
03:59<marius>using wget I'm just ending up with an empty file named after the .php page that servers the downloads =/
04:00<dcraig>if it's on sourceforge, use the "direct link"
04:00<marius>it isn't
04:00<dcraig>otherwise, maybe download it to your local machine and upload it manually?
04:00<marius>but that won't help me with a stack script
04:00<marius>then I may as well do it manually in the first place :P
04:01<amitz>minecraft? ...
04:01<marius>amitz, something like that :P
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04:04<amitz>i'm strongly tempted to tunnel my connection via ssh to take advantage of my isp's qos...
04:05<marius>found a solution :D
04:05<G>marius: use Jed's way
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04:05<marius>oh I'm not fetching the MC server :P
04:06<marius>I can wget it and rename the .php file I receive as it's the right file, but wrong name/extension :D
04:09-!-Jere [] has joined #linode
04:09<amitz>what kind of evil are you plotting marius?
04:09-!-Jere [] has left #linode []
04:09<G>marius: why not wget -O
04:09<marius>G, what does -O do?
04:10-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:10<G>marius: wget --help | grep "\-O"
04:10<marius>wow, this was an amazing ad on tv
04:11<dcraig>G's showing off his -O face
04:11<dcraig>before long he'll be showing us his "man page"
04:14<praetorian>are we talkinga bout chesty?
04:14-!-qualiad [] has quit [Quit: qualiad]
04:15<chesty>meat head
04:17-!-Damian [~Damian@] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
04:24*dcraig slaps praetorian around a bit with a large oil-covered collared dogfish
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04:25<marius>another question :P Is there any way I can provide input on the fly to a command? (such as adduser which requests passwords twice and then name address and so forth)
04:25<marius>or would I then have to go with useradd and groupadd and do it manually
04:25-!-TIBS01 [~m000@] has joined #linode
04:25<G>marius: expect?
04:26-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
04:26<marius>I shall respond with my catchphrase like ignorant blank look
04:26<marius>is that installed by default?
04:27-!-qualiad [] has joined #linode
04:27<G>maybe not :S
04:27<G>but there are similar ones :)
04:33<dcraig>e x p e c t
04:33<dcraig>find out what it means to me
04:36<tonyyarusso>marius: it's not installed by default on Ubuntu, but is in the repos.
04:36<marius>I'm not on ubuntu xD
04:36<tonyyarusso>Yeah, but that's the only reference point I have handy.
04:36<G>ditto for Fedora
04:36<marius>But I figuredi t's easier to just use a wellformed useradd then adding stuff that won't ever be used again
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04:51<tonyyarusso>Anyone here have opinions on network monitoring software?
04:54<G>tonyyarusso: what type of monitoring
04:54<marius>we use PRTG at work
04:56<tonyyarusso>G: Seeing if systems are down, slow, filling up disk, etc., but preferably extensible to check just about anything via custom scripts.
04:56<tonyyarusso>Should be able to send e-mails when outside of bounds as well as generate trend graphs (can be in an add-on).
04:57<G>tonyyarusso: zabbix, nagios (dislike both), Zenoss etc
04:57<marius>Ours can do that xD
04:57<G>tonyyarusso: Zabbix is pretty darn customisable
04:57<marius>it also has the ability to send text messages/make beepers go off, monitor temperatures etc
04:57<tonyyarusso>I'm familiar with Nagios so far, but don't really know how other things compare, so descriptions of the others in that context would be helpful.
04:57<G>tonyyarusso: but suffers from lack of decent/comprehendable documentation and out of control scaling of tests
04:58<G>if you want something that is kind of like a swiss army knife, Zabbix is it
04:58<tonyyarusso>Things I don't like about Nagios: bizarre configuration file format, outdated web interface
04:59<tonyyarusso>oh, also, should be open source
04:59<G>tonyyarusso: I haven't tried Zenoss but I've only ever heard good things about it
05:00<tonyyarusso>hmmm, will definitely look at those.
05:01<G>tonyyarusso: Fedora even seems to have a system tray applet that communicates w/ Zenos
05:01<G>(from a yum search zenoss)
05:02<marius>"no more PTYs" when trying to run screen
05:02<marius>that's an ewo ne
05:02<tonyyarusso>nice typing fail marius
05:03<marius>I take great pride in my typos
05:03<@psandin>is /dev/pts mounted? Fedora's awesome and doesn't mount it by default
05:03<G>psandin: uhhh check your facts, it does
05:03<@psandin>G: Really? Well I fail at Red Hat
05:04<G>from a machine I installed today:
05:04*psandin goes back to Debain land where everything is safe and happy
05:04<G>[njones@fantail ~]$ grep pts /etc/fstab
05:04<G>devpts /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0
05:04<tonyyarusso>G: what's the configuration of zabbix like?
05:04<G>tonyyarusso: entirely webbased
05:05<marius>psandin: is not! :P
05:05<marius>google is giving me scary commands and things to mount to fix screen o_O
05:05<G>tonyyarusso: minus quick configuration of the clients (i.e. where to find the server/proxy etc)
05:05<G>marius: did you try and run screen after an su/sudo?
05:05<G>because that really stuffs up screen I've found :)
05:06<marius>oh I know you can't screen in a su
05:06<marius>I'm directly logged in as the user I want to screen as
05:06<karlyn>if i added A name how long it will propagate?
05:07<marius>the linode DNS is updated every 15th minute
05:07<G>marius: what OS etc?
05:07<marius>G, deb 5
05:07<karlyn>marius thanks
05:07<G>karlyn: it can take a variable length of time to propogate
05:07<karlyn>G what do you mean variable?
05:07<G>karlyn: marius is correct in that the Linode Manager zonefiles are rebuilt every 15 minutes
05:07<karlyn>G thanks
05:08<G>but it also depends on factors such as if the clients (people/servers) requesting the A record already have it cached
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05:08<G>then a heap of TTL variables go in the calculation and it gets messy
05:08<karlyn>G what is the maximum time?
05:08<G>and some servers don't act right and can cache a negative result for longer than it should, yadda yadda yadda
05:09<G>karlyn: in cases where you've got weird TTLs, or ISPs that don't listen to TTLs properly, anything up to and past 1 day
05:09<G>errr 2days
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05:09<marius>isn't it sai to be 48 hours at most?
05:10<Hoggs>Does running rsync-style backups ever create problems when backing up files that are being written to? Say, backing up a live MySQL database as it's being used?
05:10<G>normally w/in a couple of hours most ISPs will realise that you've changed it
05:10<G>Hoggs: yes to mysql :)
05:10<karlyn>G because i have run exec hostname -f it said name or service not known
05:10<Hoggs>G: I suppose I'm better off using mysqldump for that specifically
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05:12<G>Hoggs: yes
05:12<G>karlyn: hmmm strange
05:13<karlyn>G if the case is hostname -f (name or service not known) what should i do? do i need to wait propagate the A name?
05:14<@psandin>G: I'm not enirely out in left field, that must be new to our Fedora 14 images, because the Fedora 13 image is definately missing /dev/pts
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05:15<G>psandin: sure the Fedora 13 images were set up right? ;) ;)?
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05:15<marius>could my screen problem be related to a kernel issue? I saw slicehost has/had issues with screen and pty errors because of the kernel
05:15<@psandin>G: given the glaring omission of /dev/pts, I'm going to go with no
05:15<G>psandin: You are making me want to break out an old Fedora 10 or so image I have to test it :)
05:16<G>psandin: I don't recall any such issues w/ Fedora 6-11/12
05:17<G>can't really comment about 13 because I completely skipped it
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05:26<marius>just checked the permissiosn doe /dev/ptmx and ensured they are correct as well... the hell o_O
05:27<marius>and I can run screen as root just fine
05:29<amitz>awesome bank, a USD 100 voucher for referring people :-D
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05:31<amitz>if (s)he buys a USD50,000 worth of mutual fund -_-
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05:32<amitz>and others. but hmm.. USD1,000 worth of insurance.
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05:39<marius>ok, here is what I have so far; screen works as intended on "Latest 2.6 Paravirt (", but the newest deployment I have runnign "Latest 2.6 Paravirt (" does NOT and can't assign ptys to non-root users. Some google work ahs shown taht the /dev/ptmx has the correct permissions. A reboot did not reset or solve anything
05:39<marius>Further down the google list I found some slicehost users with the same issue, where they were told to open tickets as it was a kernel issue
05:41<Steve^>Hey, does anyone know of a way to do simple python 3 apps on apache?
05:41<Steve^>Should I be sticking with 2.7?
05:41<@ericoc>marius: what OS
05:41<marius>debian 5 on both
05:41<marius>could I be running on my 32bit node as well without issues (since that's the kernel that appears ot be working)
05:42<Aka>how can you run a task from init.d that has to take place from a certain location say, /srv/www/website/ ..if you do the command anywhere else it doesn't work.
05:43<marius>aka, a symlink?
05:44<Aka>hmm the application can be called from anywhere, but the settings passed require you to be in that directory... I wonder if just simply telling the script to 'cd' there then execute would work well enough
05:44<Steve^>Aka, /etc/init.d/bla will work from anywhere
05:45<Aka>yes, but rake job:start will not
05:45<Steve^>Oh yea, that's what I do
05:45<Steve^>cd $DIR && ./whatever
05:48<Aka>That seemed too simple heh
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06:02<karlyn>how can i assign domain for my virtualmin (e.g.,
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06:23<linbot>New news from forums: [SOLVED]Access MySQL remotely error in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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06:44<Hoggs>Is there phpmyadmin-like software that operates as a standalone application?
06:44<Hoggs>So I can admin from my windows desktop?
06:45<G>Hoggs: why not use the tools from
06:46<Hoggs>G: I'm playing with MySQL workbench, but it doesn't really feel as powerful as phpmyadmin
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06:48<Aka>Is there a way to lock down a user so that they can't leave their home directory, and perhaps can only run a single app, say irssi?
06:50<amitz>hmm, i guess so but many apps will break.
06:52<Hoggs>no cd, no ls, no nothing!
06:53<Hoggs>unless you were to build a mini linux system inside the jail
06:53<Hoggs>(no bash, too)
06:55<Aka>hmm suppose I'd want screen to work as well
06:55<Aka>oh well, was just an idea
06:56<Aka>the user isn't in the sudoers file so I assume they can't do much... so long as my permissions on everything else are correct
06:56<G>Aka: you can create a jail environment
06:56<karlyn>can anybody know how to add multiple domain on virtualmin user?
06:57<Aka>I wondered, but I only saw a guide for SFTP jails on the library
07:02<amitz>Hoggs: can't you symlink all of those in user home directory?
07:03<Hoggs>amitz: If the user is jailed, wouldn't the symlinks fail to work..?
07:03<Hoggs>it's basically a chroot
07:06<amitz>Hoggs: oh, i'm referring to setting chmod 550 /*, execpting /home
07:06<Hoggs>Oh, right
07:06<Bar>What's the x-insight http header means ? :)
07:06<Hoggs>I wasn't :p
07:09<G>amitz: symlinking wouldn't help, but scping, bash redirection of prebuilt binaries would defeat it I'd say
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07:10<DephNet[Paul]>Could someone with a Linode in London ping to check if I have set up my private network correctly please (I think I have, but I just want to make sure)
07:11<amitz>G: but?
07:11<Hoggs>DephNet[Paul]: Your local IPs are not accessable from linodes outside your account
07:11-!-b0tz [] has joined #linode
07:11<DephNet[Paul]>Hoggs, since when?
07:12<G>they aren't I thought they were
07:12<Hoggs>At least, that's what I was told
07:12<DephNet[Paul]>I always thought they were, if not then never mind
07:13*Hoggs looks into it more
07:15<Hoggs>Well, G, can you ping from your fremont box? :P
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07:16<G>Hoggs: I don't have my private IP setup :)
07:16<Hoggs>Ah. :P
07:16-!-py1hon [] has joined #linode
07:16<G>hold on
07:16<Hoggs>And I just noticed the firewall on my backup node has been down since the outage :P
07:21<Hoggs>uh huh. I guess I was missinformed
07:21<G>no HTTP server listening on port 80?
07:21<Hoggs>Not on that box
07:21<Hoggs>that's my backup/dev
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07:22<G>Hoggs: ha, SSH firewalled too? :P
07:22<G>Hoggs: was goig to prove it wasn't fake :)
07:22<Hoggs>Nope, secret ;)
07:22<G>(at least provide the SSH hostkey)
07:22<Hoggs>It's running on port 50, actually
07:23<G>oh ha, already brought my private IP down
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07:30<linbot>amitz: timed out
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07:34*amitz is thinking of random issue to start trolling on. vi vs emacs? health care? offender list? gun control?
07:34<G>amitz: the wonderful speed of NZ internet? :P
07:34-!-Binoj [~Binoj@] has quit [Quit: Binoj]
07:34<Hoggs>vim vs. notepad++
07:34<G>amitz: FTTH v FTTN
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07:35<amitz>broadband of nz? doesn't exist!
07:36<amitz>!f ftth
07:36<linbot>amitz: timed out
07:36<Hoggs>Nah, there's four or so houses with it now.
07:37<Hoggs>G: I honestly don't have an issue with the speed here. I think it's on-par personally. I do however have an issue with the -price-
07:37<G>Hoggs: and tell me, what speed do you get?
07:38<Hoggs>I'm happy with that :P
07:38<G>Hoggs: gosh, I can see what you aren't complaining
07:39<G>2Mbit d/~320k u
07:39<Hoggs>I actually get that internationally, too. One thing telstra do right.
07:39<Hoggs>G: What ISP is that..?
07:40<G>I can get 195kB/s to Christchurch from Auckland
07:40<Talman>Anyone (awake) familiar with setting up OpenVPN on a Windows client? I can do the server setup.
07:40<G>Hoggs: Orcon, but I'm 4.5-5km from the exchange
07:40<G>it's likely 5km after the latest fault
07:40<Hoggs>G: Huh, I heard orcon was really fast
07:41<G>Hoggs: yeah, but ADSL1 exchange + 4.5-5km away is really bad speeds
07:41<Hoggs>ADSL1 huh? There's your problem..
07:41<G>Hoggs: yeah, well it's either ADSL1 or Dialup :)
07:42<Hoggs>Satalite? :P
07:42<G>Hoggs: Have you seen the prices?
07:42<G>iirc it's Farmnet that do it
07:42<G>errr Farmside
07:43<Hoggs>If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking somewhere else to live. But that's just me. :P
07:43<G>$199+GST for 5GB Data Cap
07:43<Hoggs>.. ouch
07:44<G>extra 20GB for $277+GST
07:44<G>so thats what, $550 for what I pay $62 for :)
07:45<G>Hoggs: Telecom is upgrading my exchange in 2011 but no plans for cabinets
07:46<G>which is silly as they have a cabinet about 1.5km down the road yet they won't put any equipment in it
07:46<G>if they did I'd prob get about 15-20Mbit like I did in Brisbane :P
07:46<Talman>Oh, Australia.
07:47<G>used to get about 23Mbit until Telstra decommissioned the exchange I was connected to :)
07:47<Talman>Why not use WiMAX?
07:47<G>Talman: actually we are both in New Zealand
07:47<Talman>Even worse then, you have to share Aussie internet.
07:47<G>Talman: and although WiMAX frequency has been purchased in NZ, no networks have launched it
07:47<G>Talman: uhhh no we don't
07:48<Hoggs>Our pipe comes from hawaii!
07:48<G>Talman: Telecom NZ is the majority shareholder of one of the major international cables that runs Australia<->NZ<->USA
07:48<Talman>Then why is your shit capped so low?
07:49<G>Talman: because Corporate interests provail
07:49<Hoggs>^ NZ internets
07:49<Talman>Aussies kept telling me that the US would get hard caps after Obama demanded we emulate the aussies.
07:49<G>Talman: Singtel (Optus) and Verizon are the other two shareholders of the Southern Cross Cable, and their interests is just profit margins
07:49<Talman>You know, freezones, 1-2GB caps, slow down zones, everything that we're going wtf over.
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07:50<BarkerJr>what kinda hardware will push 860 gbit?
07:50<Hoggs>Big expensive cisco switches?
07:50<G>Talman: they have a monopoly of international bandwidth for a lot of ISPs so they charge crazy high rates per Mbit of throughput
07:51<G>Talman: ISPs then have to pass it back to Customers
07:51<Talman>US ISPs do a pretty good job of hiding the costs.
07:51<Talman>For about 40-60 USD, we get about 200GB up to 500 GB a month.
07:51<Talman>(i.e. unlimited)
07:51<G>Talman: yeah, but when ISPs are saying there isn't much profit for them on $2/GB... it kinda says something
07:52<BarkerJr>they just charge the customers whatever they want :)
07:52<G>($2/GB = typical excess usage charge)
07:52<Talman>G: They don't blame it on "limited bandwidth on the cable" like the aussies do?
07:52<Hoggs>A new investor is supposidly building a newer, bigger cable than the SCC. Hopefully cheaper internets all 'round.
07:52<Talman>See, our idea of "excess usage" charges are punitive. They usually shut your shit off if you "abuse" the cap.
07:53<G>Talman: they try to, but NZers are smarter and realise that while they are announcing upgrades to the SCC at the same time it's a heap of codswallop
07:53<Talman>The only guys who run hard caps here are wireless mobile providers.
07:53<BarkerJr>and comcast
07:53<Talman>And their overage charges ARE punitive.
07:53<Talman>COmcast has announced a hard cap?
07:54<Tiven>here its like 1euro/MB
07:54<Tiven>1euro+ *
07:54<Talman>Tiven: that sounds punitive.
07:54<Tiven>no wait
07:54<Tiven>most mobile carriers had it 10euros/MB if im not mistaken? hold on
07:54<Talman>Do this and we'll rape you monetairly so you understand never to do it again.
07:54<Tiven>yes Talman
07:54<G>oh I lie, there is apparently WiMAX in one town in NZ
07:54<Tiven>i remember posts with 100MB - 1000euros+
07:55<BarkerJr>first time you break 250GB/mo is a warning, second time you get shut down and banned for 6 months
07:55<Hoggs>G: BOP, isn't it?
07:55<G>Hoggs: Whangarei
07:55<G>Hoggs: Callplus/Slingshot
07:55<Talman>See, guys? We don't get "caps" or "overage." If you break the cap, they break your ass.
07:56*Hoggs needs sleep
07:56<Hoggs>later all
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07:56<Talman>In America, the internet is something to be abused. ITS NOT A TRUCK.
07:56*BarkerJr needs better deals on amazon and newegg
07:56<G>oops! "Runway lights out at Auckland Airport" hahaha :P
07:57<DephNet[Paul]>i used to be with Vodafone, and they charged £30 a GB, or part thereof, if you went over your "huge" 1GB a month allowance
07:57<G>now they have to divert international flights several hundred Kilometres
07:57<G>DephNet[Paul]: oh yeah, Telecom NZ is something like 10c/MB
07:58<G>DephNet[Paul]: Vodafone NZ is a bit higher IIRC
07:58<DephNet[Paul]>G, this is Vodafone UK, but then again, most UK celcos are money grabbing arseholes
07:58<G>20c/MB for Vodafone after paying $10 for 100MB
07:59<DephNet[Paul]>and Ofcom do fuck all about their cartel like actions
07:59<G>so thats ~NZ$200/GB
08:00<BarkerJr>can't the autopilot land without lights?
08:00<DephNet[Paul]>BarkerJr, yes, but ATC dont like you landing on autopilot
08:00<G>BarkerJr: sure but if the Taxiway lights are out too....
08:01<G>BarkerJr: and it's not exactly Autopilot it'd be the same thing they use in fog
08:01<G>and I'd imagine what powers the lights, also powers the landing assist thingies
08:01<DephNet[Paul]>you *could* do the whole flight on autopilot
08:02<BarkerJr>where in mirc is the highlighting options?
08:03<G>eeek "Additional MBs are $1.00 each", $1000/GB
08:04<G>and another provider wants ~ 500/GB, really puts it in perspective I think ;)
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08:09<Talman>DephNet[Paul]: didn't you guys pay per minute for phone till like mid-2000s?
08:09<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, on contracts?
08:10<Talman>Hell if I know. I just remember a lot of our UK players on a MUSH complaining when they came from from college.
08:10<mwalling>G: ILS systems usually have backup power sources located right with the transmitting eqipment
08:10<Talman>Demon ISP was per minute for them + our meetings were usually at like 2 AM for them.
08:10<DephNet[Paul]>I think Vodafone still charges per minute, most others have moved to per second billing
08:11<Talman>Wait. OK, if I pick up a landline telephone, I can talk forevar on it.
08:11<Talman>From local exchange to another point.
08:11<Talman>(Not long distance)
08:11<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, kindof
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08:12<DephNet[Paul]>BT do a free call plan
08:12<noir_lord>We have that here, where I live in the UK we were lucky because we had the last local telephone company not operated by BT (and had it for decades) so we paid 5.5p for as long as we wanted and then later nothing (on local calls)
08:12<G>mwalling: it's a Category 3b Runway
08:12<DephNet[Paul]>but to get the "unlimited" free calls, you have to hang up and redial every 59 minutes
08:12<mwalling>aparently i missed context
08:12<DephNet[Paul]>noir_lord, Hull?
08:13<DephNet[Paul]>poor you
08:13<G>mwalling: Runway lights failure has shutdown Auckland Airport
08:13<Talman>If you pay per second, why do people use landlines?
08:13<Talman>Or is a cell more expensive?
08:13<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, it is cheaper
08:13<noir_lord>DephNet, people say that but I make a good living and the cost of living is insanely low
08:13<mwalling>G: ah
08:14<Talman>To me, that's very odd.
08:14<G>mwalling: which to me would definately shut the airport down
08:14<Talman>Here, in the US, generally you'll pay 30-60 dollars a month for unlimited local calling.
08:14<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, freephone numbers are charged for on a cell, and you have to have a landline for the internet
08:15*noir_lord thinks Debian is boring, stuff should not just work, you want two monitors cool that works, you want to install compiz to work across two monitors yeah that works as well, Debian taking the fun out of Linux ;)
08:15<DephNet[Paul]>noir_lord, try Ubuntu :P
08:15<noir_lord>I did, why do you think I run Debian ;)
08:15<noir_lord>I was joking, I like stuff to just work
08:16<DephNet[Paul]>noir_lord, because Ubuntu is shit?
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08:16<DephNet[Paul]>it looks nice, and that is about it
08:16<noir_lord>not going to say that, some people like it and find is stable....I'm not one of those people
08:16<DephNet[Paul]>me neither
08:17<DephNet[Paul]>it decided to eat all of my data one day
08:18<Talman>The plural of annecdote is not data.
08:18<noir_lord>Deph, took me about 15 minutes to make Debian as "pretty" as Ubuntu and about 3 months to try and make Ubuntu as stable as Debian...clear winner there really
08:18<noir_lord>Talman, no but lots of people with a similar opinion is consensus :p
08:18<DephNet[Paul]>noir_lord, im on OpenSUSE at the moment
08:20<noir_lord>I tried that when I switched away from Ubuntu and it's very good but I'd used Ubuntu for long enough that I felt comfortable with how it worked (mostly the OS is just a tool and I don't want to have to think about it)
08:20<noir_lord>under 10.04 on this machine Ubuntu crashed daily, Debian has not crashed *once* in 3 weeks and that's on squeeze which is supposed to be beta
08:22<noir_lord>It is a shame though because 10.04 on my HP laptop is an absolute joy to use
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08:24<BarkerJr>linux an absolute joy? :)
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08:30<Talman>It'd be nice if the broadcom 4311 drivers would just fucking work.
08:30<Talman>I boot to live USB, and wireless just works. I don't have the ability to get wired ethernet.
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08:31<noir_lord>BarkerJr, on that particular hardware (middle of the line 18 month old hp laptop) it is pretty near to perfect even the text renders nicer on the eye than on windows
08:31<Talman>Text renders nicer? So, that would be a font, correct?
08:32<noir_lord>gf loves it, if she is using her laptop (XP) and I finish using mine she swipes mine because she prefers using is definetly not a techie
08:32<Fieldy>font rendering in windows is pretty crappy, so no surprise there
08:32<noir_lord>Talman, no, same fonts as under windows however because of the small pixel size on the screen and the tweaks the ubuntu team have made to aliasing etc it just renders nice
08:32<Talman>I just want to know if debian ships a fucking bcm4311 driver and firmware.
08:33<Talman>Knowing Debian philosophy, probably not.
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08:42<Talman>Seriously, I don't care what distro it is, if the fucking thing segfaults when trying to magically build my drivers, its worthless.
08:42<noir_lord>worthless to you
08:43<Fieldy>user error
08:43<karlyn>hi i am instaling wordpress on ubuntu 10.04 i got this error
08:43<karlyn>Your PHP installation appears to be missing the MySQL extension which is required by WordPress.
08:44<dassouki>so hard-distry upgrading .. broke a few things in my linode ... one i have to remount my xvda manually .. 2 issues with /run/network (folder has to be created manually on every restart) and 3 webdav is broken and i can't seem to be able to fix it .
08:44<Fieldy>karlyn: you'll probably have better luck in #ubuntu either here or on
08:45<HoopyCat>karlyn: have you installed the mysql extension? apt-get install php5-mysql (i think)
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08:46<Fieldy>ah the impatient
08:46<Talman>noir_lord: Me is all that matters, its my computer.
08:46<Talman>Fieldy: "user error" in an automated process is bad design. The user interface choices are: Click this button, don't.
08:47<mwalling>how do you iterate over the keys in an array?
08:48<HoopyCat>mwalling: for fleem in blurg.keys():
08:48<mwalling>fuck, in js
08:48*HoopyCat leaves in a huff
08:48<mwalling>and by array i mean map
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08:52<dassouki>one of hte worst things that can happen in life is when you see that you're one night stand friend's status on facebook is pregnant
08:53<avenj>not necessarily
08:53<avenj>she's probably banging everybody else, too
08:53<avenj>I wouldn't freak until I saw some DNA results
08:53<avenj>(and I sure as hell wouldn't sign any birth certs...)
08:54<dassouki>well not really ... anyways, doing the math... it's clear it's not me. Now how to reconfigure webdav
08:54<noir_lord>dassouki, better than her status been "just diagnosed with HIV"
08:54<Talman>Those aren't mutually exclusive.
08:54<avenj>noir_lord: way to look on the bright side
08:55<noir_lord>talman, and your point is?, indeed they are not mutually exclusive however I said that HIV would be worse which said nothing about HIV and her been pregnant been worse than either the single case
08:55<dassouki>ya it becomes like hte show "Raisign hope" get raped by a woman who turns out to be a mas murderer .. they execute the woman and the 19 year old is stuck with the baby
08:57<Talman>Boy isn't out of the woods yet.
08:57<Fieldy>thngs happen
08:57<avenj>Fieldy: nice to see you hanging around here 8)
08:57<linbot>New news from forums: Hi Experts, Please help me beat the Chinese Gov's block in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
08:57-!-D[a]rkbeholder [] has joined #linode
08:57<Talman>New from forums: Please help me be sentenced to reeducation through work for violating the people's will.
08:59<noir_lord>does the Chinese government still bill the family for the bullet when they have shot someone in the head?
09:01-!-Fieldy [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:01<Talman>THey don't shoot you anymore.
09:01<Talman>They have multiple vans in every provience that they give lethal injections in.
09:01-!-Fieldy [] has joined #linode
09:01<Talman>mobile execution units.
09:02<noir_lord>no, just sentence you to death on trumped up charges then harvest your organs...
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09:03<noir_lord>of course I condemn their human rights record while sat at a desk made in china, in front of two monitors made in china, next to a PC made in china and PC I assembled with components made in china, wearing clothes made in's a stinging condemnation I know
09:03<noir_lord>In fact the only think on my desk made in the UK is a can of coca cola (which was made under license to an American company)..nice
09:03<dassouki>should each website, have its own virtudal server ?
09:04<dassouki>or does it depend on traffic ?
09:04<Fieldy>can you be more specific?
09:04<Talman>Are you asking if you need to buy a new linode for each website?
09:05<dassouki>i guess security wise, would it be wise to install multiple instances of ubuntu
09:05<dassouki>and each one gets it's own linode ?
09:05<dassouki>you know how you can have multiple installations?
09:05<noir_lord>dassouki, it's not required if you keep your system up to date and isolate the sites from each other correctly
09:05<Talman>Is he suggested running multiple VMs in his linode?
09:05<noir_lord>dassouki, you could however give each site it's own user which I've found a useful way to keep things seperate
09:05<noir_lord>Talman, I think so
09:06<Talman>Or just jailing it with suexec?
09:06<Fieldy>seems like overkill. as far as security i'd like to suggest a grsecurity kernel however I have not yet been able to get one to boot on a linode yet
09:06<Talman>That... yeah, a VM in a VM is not ...
09:06<Fieldy>unless you start running outta resources, i wouldn't worry about more than one
09:06<Talman>Use su_exec. OR, know exactly what is on your server.
09:06<noir_lord>dassouki, I don't even bother with the seperate users thing since I run all the sites and only I have access however it is an option if you are going to be hosting sites for others and they are going to required access
09:07<noir_lord>don't really want customer A taking out customer B's database
09:07<Fieldy>backups, backups, backups
09:07<dassouki>i won't be hosting sites at all
09:07<noir_lord>then it is basically a non-issue
09:07<dassouki>but i will probably have about 5 gb of data . most of the data is proprietary
09:07<noir_lord>encrypt the partition it is on
09:08<noir_lord>also is the data proprietary or confidential (in the legal sense)?
09:08<Fieldy>good suggestion. and have backups and verify they are working regularly.
09:09<dassouki>now this might be a silly question, but can someone create a windows vm on linode and install exchange ?
09:09<noir_lord>the universe would implode with the awesomeness ;)
09:10<dassouki>i tried zimbra .. and wasn't too impressed with scheduling ...
09:10<dassouki>since i deal with the data through email, gmail / google apps isn't an option
09:11<noir_lord>dassouki, a linode is already a virtualised instance of an operating system (linux under Xen), running a VM inside a VM even if you could get windows to work that way would be horrible slow and horribly memory consuming since you would now have Overhead of Linux + Overhead of VM + Overhead of Guest + Exchange *before* you start
09:11<dassouki>+ overhead of a server nube likemyself
09:11<noir_lord>if you want a secure hosted exchange (secure and exchange is an oxymoron however please don't point that out) server you can rent them from quite a few companies
09:12<noir_lord>even my local dim as hell ISP offers a pretty good package
09:12<py1hon>the real question: why the hell would you want exchange? it'd be so much easier to just slit your wrists
09:12*Fieldy points out the point out
09:12<noir_lord>py1hon, pay MS per user then slit your wrists
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09:13<Talman>dassouki: what, specifically, are you trying to do?
09:14<py1hon>granted there isn't an "all in one" package that really compares across the board, but exchange does email _so badly_...
09:14*noir_lord laments the fact that netbeans fullscreen does not mean full screen :|
09:14<Talman>i.e. what type of data are you trying to protect, who from, and what is the likelyhood you will be attacked for the data.
09:14<dassouki>when it comes to exchange, it usually revolves around scheduling with multiple ppl over handheld devices, is the feature i miss most. Second would be the seamless integration of email and calendar
09:14<Talman>I have both of those through google apps + thunderbird.
09:14<dassouki>Talman: the data is geographic and census data .. mostly on the micro level (i.e. not the free census)
09:14<py1hon>that said, there is decent calendering, and email/calendering integration does exist outside exchange
09:14<noir_lord>dassouki, if you already have an exchange infrastructure and users who like it then cool, stick with it otherwise have a look at something like Citadel
09:15<Talman>Is the data deemed sensitive to your government?
09:15<py1hon>i've used davical + thunderbird with reasonable success
09:15<dassouki>Talman: some of it such as tax assessment is
09:15<dassouki>and property value .. and specific age groups
09:15<Talman>Then why is it touching an unsecure network like linode?
09:15<noir_lord>has found that if users are *not* complaining about the current system don't change it since *any* problems with the new (even if better) system will be *your* fault
09:16<dassouki>Talman: the data will live on a database and be shown on a map (open layers), which doesn't breach the license agreement
09:16<noir_lord>py1hon, I like Evolution, not "can put up with it" like..actually *like* and I never saw the need for Outlook
09:16<Talman>OK, so its not sensitive data.
09:16<noir_lord>it's a god send for running a small business alongside working full time
09:16<py1hon>noir_lord: really? I think you're the first person I've heard say that about evolution :p
09:16<dassouki>Talman: we can't share the data, but we can display it
09:16<dassouki>noir_lord: but can you look up someone's schedule and book around it ?
09:17<Talman>I can, dassouki.
09:17<py1hon>I think thunderbird's gotten pretty good, it's what I use
09:17<noir_lord>dassouki, I don't need to, I'm just using it to schedule me, for that I'd look at something like Citadel (which is on my list of stuff to evaluate for a new customer)
09:17<Talman>Google Apps + Zindus + Thunderbird + Lightning.
09:17<marius>does thunderbird finally have native exchange support?
09:17<py1hon>hell no
09:17<marius>until it gets native exchange, it's pointless.
09:17<py1hon>right, cos that's all anyone uses
09:18<Talman>I don't NEED native exchange support.
09:18<dassouki>well i would say exchange lives in enterprise
09:18<Fieldy>don't need/want
09:18<py1hon>wonder why dovecot was written...
09:18<marius>But that's what most people with a job will be requesting, Most people with exchange at work will ahve it at home as well
09:18<noir_lord>py1hon, I like both, TB is what I recommend to customers who need more than OE but don't need full Outlook
09:18<Talman>Their cell phones use exchange push for email, calendar, etc.
09:18<Talman>My iphone works with gapps just fine.
09:19<py1hon>noir_lord: if TB's calendaring was just a bit more polished, it'd be pretty much there.
09:19<noir_lord>in terms of desktop support getting clients off IE/OE (particulary unupdated XP machines) onto FF/TB reduces the number of infections hugely
09:19<dassouki>i think from my point is i want something i can install once .. have it on auto update, i can link to it from outlook or evolution, or alphione heck! and be able to book people to meetings and assign them tasks
09:19<Talman>Hell, I can push shit between gapps domains, like "Client: YOu have a fucking meeting"
09:19<noir_lord>I had a play with it, seems pretty comprehensive
09:19<dassouki>Talman: i guess if you have a fellow staff member, you can look up their schedule, and book a meeting with them ... especially if yoiu have 10 15 people you're trying to schedule
09:20<dassouki>noir_lord: thanks
09:20<Talman>Yes, I can.
09:20<Talman>I can also hit "new meeting" and see when everyone I've invited is free/busy/where.
09:20<py1hon>anyways, I need beta testers -
09:20<dassouki>didn't know that ....
09:20<noir_lord>unless I get MPD scheduling meeting's is pretty easy for me :)
09:20<dassouki>MPD ?
09:21<Talman>DID, noir_lord is what its called now. :)
09:21<Talman>Multiple Personality Disorder.
09:21<Talman>Or Disassociative Identity Disorder.
09:21<noir_lord>that is just so they can sell new text books ;)
09:22<dassouki>ok now that fixes one issue
09:22<dassouki>but before i get there .. how can i fix my broken dav?
09:22<dassouki>and my broken linode ?
09:22<Talman>I don't know what's wrong and the likelyhood I will know how to fix it is low.
09:22<noir_lord>take of and nuke from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
09:22<dassouki>i hardupgraded my linode
09:23<dassouki>to 10.10
09:23<noir_lord>(ask a daft question receive a daft answer)
09:23<dassouki>somethingi shouldn't have done
09:23<dassouki>libapache2-common is install and libapache2-svn is installed
09:23<noir_lord>out of curiosity why would you upgrade a working LTS to a point release considering you would have got longer support from now on the LTS?
09:23<Talman>Ah, you're the guy that didn't follow the howto on library.
09:23<dassouki>when i restart apache it complains that dav is nt allowed .. when i disable it in my svn mods apahce works ok
09:23<Talman>I will never comprehend that.
09:24<dassouki>Talman: actually, it's hteo ther way around .. i thought , i'll just do a distupgrade
09:24<Talman>SO, you DID follow the linode library howto?
09:24<noir_lord>also Ubuntu in my experience never *smoothly* upgrades from one release to another because they really do mess around with stuff between versions
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09:26<amitz>even within version.
09:26<dassouki>i updated using the update-manager-core ..the same way i do for my desktop
09:27<@psandin>marius: why are you still awake, much less making me do something that might be misconstured as work
09:27*psandin researches
09:28<noir_lord>amitz, that too, if I do an update and it lists core stuff I tend to hold the update (unless it is security) for a couple of days to see what blew up
09:28<noir_lord>amitz, russian roulette with a production server, not fun
09:28<Talman>I have webmin email me a list of packages daily.
09:29<Talman>If I like it, I click a link and it does it.
09:29<Talman>Webmin: Making my life easier.
09:29<Fieldy>And your server less secure.
09:29<Talman>Putting your linode on the internet makes it "less secure."
09:30<noir_lord>I took over a CentOS server (new job) that appears to be running every server front end ever created, CPanel, WebMin and some others
09:30<noir_lord>all that crap is *going*
09:30<marius>psandin: because I hate you :P
09:30<marius>and it's like 3.30pm ;)
09:30<dassouki>i toyed with ispconfig .. what's the recommendation if i'm just doing stuff for myself
09:30<marius>I don't sleep, I try to find reasons to ruin your days >=)
09:31<@psandin>marius: timezones are magic
09:31<marius>black magic at taht
09:31<marius>I also beleive there's voodoo involved
09:31<noir_lord>dassouki, learning the CLI
09:32<dassouki>noir_lord: indeed
09:32<noir_lord>not been elitist but if you are going to run your own linode it makes sense to have a really good grasp of doing it that way so that when something breaks and your whizzbang web interface goes boom you have a reasonable shot at fixing it
09:32<noir_lord>also you will find that after a while you start to wonder why you bothered with the interface (except for phpmyadmin, that I love)
09:33<Fieldy>yep yep
09:33<marius>noir_lord, we all love phpmyadmin, I gave Chive-Project a shot, but it's bugridden and couldn't even fetch a list of tables for me...nor does it work under anything other then apache, and does NOT work with localhost on window :P
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09:33<dassouki>pgmyadmin in my case :P
09:34<@psandin>marius: the quick fix is mount /dev/pts
09:34<@psandin>well that's what I get for poking fun at Fedora for doing the same thing this morning
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09:34<noir_lord>phpmyadmin is a fine example of "do one thing and do it well"
09:34<HoopyCat>noir_lord: s/linode/server/
09:35<noir_lord>HoopyCat, yup
09:35<marius>psandin, yeah I noticed, but isn't this something that should be included by default without manually mounting? :P
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09:35<CyZooNiC>whats the irc command to check my packetloss to a linode?
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09:35<marius>And I actually remmeebr you making fun of it and then retreating to "safe debian" xD
09:35<Talman>dassouki: ispconfig is for reselling services.
09:35<Talman>Unless you're a commercial web hosting operation, there's no need for whm, cpanel, ispconfig, etc on your box.
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09:36<@psandin>marius: yeah, I'm gunna do some more testing of what does/doesn't work and let caker know
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09:36<Talman>phpmyadmin makes you server less secure, noir_lord.
09:36<@psandin>that's not good :(
09:36<HoopyCat>CyZooNiC: "mtr" is a decently comprehensive tool for that, showing how much and where
09:36<Fieldy>Talman: if you allow anyone to access it, you're right. clue required.
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09:37<HoopyCat>Talman: root cause: ifup eth0
09:37-!-ivan` [~ivan`] has joined #linode
09:37<linbot>Talman: [mtr] not found
09:37-!-ivan` [~ivan`] has quit []
09:37<Fieldy>however with webmin it hasn't been maintained upstream in over two years, to include some very serious security problems.
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09:37<noir_lord>Talman, really? since I can only connect to it from my computer at home and everyone else it rejects and its only available after I've ssh'd in and enabled it (using RSA not passwords)
09:37<Talman>Remind me how they're addressed.
09:37<HoopyCat>Talman: "Sir"
09:37<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
09:37<noir_lord>Talman, effectively you need to be sat in front of my PC to use it and if they got that far I'm already screwed
09:37<Fieldy>noir_lord: he's just emo because he said he runs webmin and i pointed out the above, he used almost my exact words
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09:38<HoopyCat>Talman: fremont221 is clean as a baby from here
09:38<Talman>Fiedly: You still haven't cited proof that webmin is somehow magically going to get your box rooted.
09:38<Fieldy>at the app security level you're talking something that is still maintained and something that is not.
09:38<noir_lord>plus I'm not Julian Assange so no one cares what is on my server (which at the moment is a bunch of engineer site reports for a client)
09:38<HoopyCat>CyZooNiC: fremont138 is clean as a baby from here (upstate NY via chicago)
09:38<Talman>The same mysterious sources complain about phpmyadmin as the fall of troy.
09:38<linbot>CyZooNiC: (mtrfremont <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "web title$1".
09:39<Talman>mtr needs a target, and the -datacenter is the source.
09:39<CyZooNiC>thanks, I think its on my end
09:39<CyZooNiC>oh I see
09:39<linbot>CyZooNiC: [mtr] 14 hops, ge-data-ubr10k-ebm-2.ggamaur: 20.0%/168.8ms, c-82-192-237-13.customer.gga: 40.0%/186.3ms (urmom)
09:39<Talman>From fremont to your IP.
09:40<Fieldy>heh "urmom"
09:40<CyZooNiC>wow, I have one awesome isp
09:40<ivan`>which data center does not have random network outages?
09:40<Fieldy>all of them as far as I can tell
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09:40<HoopyCat>ivan`: the one that isn't on the internet
09:41<ivan`>HE is particularly troublesome
09:41<noir_lord>curses adobe, your software sucks but no one renders PDF's like you do :|
09:41<HoopyCat>ivan`: if your connectivity to HE is bad, then your connectivity to fremont may be bad too
09:42<ivan`>my AT&T <-> fremont is seriously broken several times a week
09:42<CyZooNiC>lol, in the time it took me to figure out mtr my connection returned to normal.
09:42-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
09:43<amitz>my fremont acted up for a few moment, back to normal.
09:44<noir_lord>Mike Oldfield is a genius, Incantations is auditory valium
09:45-!-bonhoffer [] has joined #linode
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09:45<bonhoffer>i am having trouble on my linode getting a subdomain to work
09:46-!-Fieldy [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:46<bonhoffer>i followed the guide at:
09:46<bonhoffer>but can't get to load anything
09:46<bonhoffer>Stan Schwertly on here?
09:49<Cromulent>do you have a correct CNAME set?
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10:02<linbot>New news from forums: Report a minor bug with control panel in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
10:11-!-noir_lord [~noir_lord@adsl-213-249-223-130.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #linode
10:12<noir_lord>anyone else think that with the move to widescreen monitors having multiple menubars and tabs *across* the page is retarded (FF is bad for this as is acrobat reader)
10:16<Steve^>Google Apps does it too
10:17<Steve^>Can't collapse them like you could in retro-Office
10:17<noir_lord>I have a virtual desktop that is 3840x1080, I'll trade my soul to save vertical space (Netbeans is bugger for it as well, full screen mode does not mean "only the editor on the entire screen")
10:18<noir_lord> that wallpaper cracks me up (2Mb file)
10:19<spkitty>vertical space is the entire reason i didn't go for the 11" macbook air
10:19<spkitty>as it's 16:9 rather than 16:10
10:20<noir_lord>my next acquisition after a new main pc will be a monitor that is rotatable, I would prefer 1080x1920 to 1920x1080 (drools at how many lines you could get on that)
10:21<amitz>less scrollback for IRC!
10:21<spkitty>rotatable is great if you're reading large swathes of text, but then there's no point in such a high resolution
10:21<noir_lord>I'm happy with the pair of x23LED I got yesterday, if you are after a cheap 23" full HD LED TFT I don't think you could do better
10:21<spkitty>all apps are optimised for 16:10
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10:22<noir_lord>only thing I would change perhaps is thinner surround but it's not an issue since I mostly just want the second to show documentation (not gaming)
10:23-!-A-KO [] has joined #linode
10:25<Steve^>I don't like my web browser wider than 1000-1200
10:25<Steve^>The web is a vertical world
10:26<noir_lord>Steve yeah I had to force myself to get use it it I used to pass the width to the browser to prevent it starting full screen
10:32-!-Jere [] has left #linode []
10:33<amitz>Steve^: you can place 2 web browser side by side if you have more pixels horizontallu.
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10:44<HoopyCat>noir_lord: now that you mention it... yeah, it's always vertical space i'm short of, not horizontal
10:45*HoopyCat hmmmms, grabs some zip ties, and looks thoughtfully at the back of his monitor
10:46<Steve^>I think veritcal is harder on your body
10:46<Steve^>neck strain and back strain and so on
10:48<HoopyCat>OK GOT IT FIXED
10:49*amitz too, checks the year, 2010.. hmmm
10:50<Steve^>his mouse has an edge in the middle
10:51<amitz>that's probably a morse tapper.
10:55-!-snobby [] has joined #linode
10:55<noir_lord>HoopyCat, once you become aware of it you start noticing it been wasted everywhere, UI designers still think we live in a 4:3 world
10:55<amitz>so what world are we living in now?
10:55<Edgeman>my 16:10 monitor rotates 90degrees on its stand
10:56<Edgeman>of course it's not smart enough to auto-flip the screen res too
10:56<Edgeman>but that can be done in graphics drivers
10:57<noir_lord>Edgeman, for it to do that you would need a sensor in the monitor and it would have to resend it's EDID values I think except those really only get probed when the graphics driver initialises so it would require significantly amending alot of drivers..
10:57<noir_lord>better to just handle it in software for those rare use cases where someone want so do that (PS: I want a rotating monitor)
10:57<Edgeman>well, the monitor has a USB port
10:58<Edgeman>it could send something over that I suppose
10:58<Edgeman>but then Dell would have to work out a way to talk to X number of different graphics drivers
10:58<spkitty>UI designers really do not think we live in a 4:3 world
10:58<spkitty>do you realise how many resolutions we have to provide for?
10:59<amitz>yes, people should start inventing website that scrolls horizontally, with fonts rotated 90 degrees.
11:00<spkitty>been done
11:00<spkitty>pretty easy with CSS3 too
11:00<amitz>, which is a trivial work around for your problem.
11:00<amitz>spkitty: say what? srsly?
11:00<spkitty>you can even get it to work in IE
11:01-!-snubby [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:01<spkitty>problem with horizontal scrolling with large blocks of tex is you now have to give text a fixed *vertical* height
11:02<HoopyCat>plus, my weekly column in the tech newspaper is now a row
11:02<spkitty>and you need he columns to be just the right width for legibility
11:03<HoopyCat>good god almighty, it's a frickin' notification extravaganza
11:03-!-noir_lord [~noir_lord@adsl-213-249-223-130.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:03<amitz>sugar deficiency
11:04<amitz>or is it rush?
11:05<HoopyCat>i pushed the refill button on thursday morning... it's now 48 hours later and they're still waiting to hear back from my doctor, which is... completely reasonable
11:06<amitz>yes, thanksgiving is a bitch.
11:06<spkitty>completely reasonable if you live in america :v
11:11<HoopyCat>if it were important, i'd have pushed the button wednesday
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11:33<bonhoffer>do i need to set up a cname to get to work?
11:34<bonhoffer>or can nginx handle that via vhost?
11:35-!-customer [] has joined #linode
11:37<customer>I symlinked to an image which is outside of the document root. I get a "You don't have permission to access /image.jpg on this server" error message. How can I link to files outside of the document root so they can be accessed by my website?
11:41<HoopyCat>bonhoffer: if cannot be resolved into an IP address, your web server will never get the request
11:41<HoopyCat>customer: which web server are you using? i'm guessing apache, since it doesn't follow symlinks by default (or at least the common default configs don't)
11:42<bonhoffer>HoopyCat: can't the webserver handle that via virtual hosts?
11:42<customer>HoopyCat: Apache. My VirtualHost config contains Options FollowSymLinks though.
11:43<customer>Or does that mean it follows symlinks only within the document root?
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11:52<Talman>HoopyCat: My doctor tells me to order refills when I have 2 weeks left of pills.
11:54<HoopyCat>bonhoffer: how would a web browser figure out how to ask the web server?
11:55<bonhoffer>fair enough
11:55<HoopyCat>CompWizrd: hmm, should work. check and see if you've got anything else that might be overriding it (.htaccess files are killer)
11:55-!-Steve^ [] has joined #linode
11:55<bonhoffer>i thought the request came in to the ip and the running webserver directed the request to the virtualhost subdomain
11:55<HoopyCat>Talman: i'm not exactly the most organized person in the world when it comes to scheduling :-)
11:55-!-nessenj [~nessenj@] has joined #linode
11:56<HoopyCat>bonhoffer: how would the request come into the IP without a way to turn the hostname into an IP? :-)
11:57<HoopyCat>bonhoffer: (the web server still does need to know about the hostname too)
11:57-!-bonhoffer [] has quit [Quit: bonhoffer]
11:58-!-customer [] has left #linode []
11:58<HoopyCat><--- winnin' em over
11:58<Talman>HoopyCat: Target pharmacy automatically refills my shit.
11:59<HoopyCat>Talman: i can enable that, BUT the shit that doesn't require a paper precision is temporary
11:59-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
12:00<Talman>Hmm. I don't know, I get my scripts written in 3 month intervals.
12:00<Talman>30 day supply, 3 refills, etc.
12:01<HoopyCat>maximum 30 day supply, no refills, prescription cannot be transmitted electronically
12:01<HoopyCat>mumble mumble
12:01<Talman>wtf are you taking, Schedule 1 drugs?
12:03<Talman>Oh, you're taking speed. No wonder.
12:03<Talman>... Why the fuck is it that the only solution they can come up for ADHD is speed?
12:04<Talman>If you're non-functioning, are they going to hook your ass up with crystal meth?
12:04<HoopyCat>Talman: but it's not speed until it hits my gastrointestinal tract! :-)
12:04-!-karlyn [~grusome@] has joined #linode
12:05<Talman>This is what replaced ritalin, isn't it.
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12:08<HoopyCat>Talman: it's a less-abuseable form of the same stuff, basically
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12:10<Talman>I see.
12:12<HoopyCat>the ADD diagnosis flowchart: does it seem like they might have ADD? if yes, prescribe stimulant. if person is all like ZOMGWHEEEIHAVENTEATENINWEEKSWOAHWHYISTHISROCKETSLEDSOSLOW, they don't have ADD.
12:13<Talman>Yes. I know.
12:13<Talman>(Does not have ADD)
12:13<Talman>Hey, guyz, you put me on ritlin for a week and I almost killed a 5th grader. I was in the 3rd grade. :)
12:13<HoopyCat>if they're like "wow, i actually managed to read the back of the cereal box without getting distracted by my spoon", they probably have ADD
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12:26<amitz>i wonder how will i fare if i start taking medicine, hmm
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12:35<HoopyCat>"In the form I filled in before the surgery there was this question: Whom should we call in case of an emergency? I wrote: A more qualified surgeon."
12:35<HoopyCat> --
12:37<Talman>My county forms have that question. I put 911.
12:37<Talman>"Emergency contact?" 911.
12:38-!-Giacomohhh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:38<Talman>Also, I have a guy who wants to make a clone of "" and wants to know what kind of "contract we can do to protect my idea."
12:38-!-bonhoffer_ [] has joined #linode
12:38<Talman>This guy sounds like he wants an NDA but he's soo stupid to know the term.
12:38<Talman>Yes, yes I should.
12:39<HoopyCat>Emergency contact: ("This is outside of our support scope, but you may be interested in")
12:39<Talman>He'll be required to pay up front.
12:40<Talman>Do you run this clientsfromhell?
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12:42<rvhi>anyone runs openswan and xl2tpd? which one should start first in rc scripts?
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13:12<saikat>was there a bit of dowtime in fremont this morning?
13:13<mwalling>saikat: looks like routes in the internets were broken, some people were clean, some werent
13:13<mwalling>around 9:30 EST
13:13<saikat>hm sorry - like an internet-wide problem?
13:15-!-DesertPanther_ [~Khalid@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:16<saikat>oh apparently there was a DOS
13:16-!-TIBS01 [~m000@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:18<tjfontaine>"Our development team has been alerted to this error. If you continue to have problems please contact support:" chuckle
13:19<thezach>i have a question to pose to the community here
13:19<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
13:19<thezach>im trying to problem solve with linode, and im still a linux nub
13:20<thezach>I have been the reciepient of a DMCA takedown notice and linode disabled my content as I was unable to remove it in time
13:20-!-DesertPanther_ [~Khalid@] has joined #linode
13:21<thezach>is there a way to boot a linode and remove the content without making it publically availalbe thus keeping linode in safe harbor provision?
13:21<tjfontaine>using finnix
13:21<thezach>how would I do that?
13:21-!-bonhoffer [] has quit [Quit: bonhoffer]
13:21<tjfontaine>log into the manager, and go to the rescue tab
13:23<saikat>do we know if the Fremont facility is back to having working UPSes and such?
13:23<amitz>!libray copy disk image
13:23<thezach>and how do i remove the files subject to the DMCA in finnix?
13:24<amitz>!library copy disk image
13:24<linbot>amitz: 1. Manage Linode Disk Images ( - 2. Copying a Disk to a Separate Linode Account ( - 3. Copy a Disk Image Over SSH (
13:24<HoopyCat>thezach: using "rm"
13:25<HoopyCat>saikat: i would assume so, but a ticket would probably be the best way to verify
13:25-!-loxs [~loxs@] has joined #linode
13:28-!-DesertPanther__ [~Khalid@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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13:31<linbot>mwalling_: [mtr] not found
13:31<tjfontaine>not dash
13:31<linbot>mwalling_: [mtr] not found
13:31<linbot>mwalling_: [mtr] not found
13:32<linbot>tjfontaine: [mtr] 12 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 40.4ms
13:32<thezach>how do i mount a disk image in finnux
13:32<mwalling_>i fail like hell
13:32<thezach>er finnix
13:32-!-Jere1 [] has joined #linode
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13:33<HoopyCat>saikat: fremont looks good to me:
13:34<HoopyCat>thezach: mount /dev/xvda (adjusting as needed for images other than xvda)
13:34-!-mwalling_ [] has quit []
13:37<DesertPanther_>guys, I have resetted my linode, and its not booting! kernel panic, help!
13:37<Fieldy>linode kernel or a custom one?
13:37<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: anything interesting on the console? has anything changed since the last time you rebooted?
13:38<DesertPanther_>I got this through LISH =>
13:39<DesertPanther_>Fieldy, linode kernel
13:39<Fieldy>did you pass nodevfs to the kernel via the bootloader?
13:39<DesertPanther_>no, I don't know what is nodevfs!
13:40<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: which distribution are you running?
13:40<mwalling>DesertPanther_: what does "resetted my linode" mean?
13:40<DesertPanther_>Ubuntu Server 9.10
13:40<Fieldy>lots of things going there that are beyond me, being a linode kernel, i suggest creating a ticket with that information (and as much other information as possible)
13:40<thezach>im having trouble mounting the drive
13:41<DesertPanther_>mwalling, restarted it
13:41<mwalling>DesertPanther_: did you change your /etc/fstab between the last time you booted and now?
13:42<DesertPanther_>I didn't
13:42<mwalling>pastebin it
13:43<mwalling>use finnix to get it
13:43<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: from the Rescue tab, start up the rescue image, then mount your image (usually, mount /dev/xvda) and cat /mnt/xvda/etc/fstab
13:43<mwalling>HoopyCat: ^5
13:44<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: i am suspecting the file may have some unusual content or formatting errors
13:44-!-loxs [~loxs@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:44<DesertPanther_>I never altered it!
13:45<mwalling>do this and prove it
13:45<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: bummer. well, dunno then.
13:45<DesertPanther_>we'll see
13:46-!-TIBS01 [~m000@] has joined #linode
13:46<mwalling>you might not have, but something else could have
13:46-!-Steve^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:47<DesertPanther_>like being hacked?
13:48<Fieldy>attackers usually want to use the resources they compromise, not wreck them, I doubt it
13:48<mwalling>like package managers.
13:48-!-bfrog [] has joined #linode
13:57<thezach>lalalala waiting for linode to respond to my ticket to get my shiat rebooted
13:57-!-Bar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:00<DesertPanther_>cat: /mnt/xvdb/etc/fstab: No such file or directory    
14:01<Peng>DesertPanther_: Your Linode's image is /dev/xvdb, not /dev/xvda?
14:01<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: is /dev/xvdb the image with your root filesystem? (this will be on the Rescue tab)
14:01<DesertPanther_>xvda is taken by the swap
14:02-!-Steve^ [] has joined #linode
14:02<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: ls /mnt/xvdb
14:02-!-message144 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:02<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: is there anything in there?
14:03-!-Chris___ [goose@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:03<DesertPanther_>very cool, nothing
14:03<linbot>New news from forums: [Solved]Hi Experts, Please help me beat the Chinese Gov... in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
14:04<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: did you get any errors when you tried mounting /dev/xvdb?
14:04-!-BP{k} [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:04-!-BP{k}_ [] has joined #linode
14:04*HoopyCat brews a pot of coffee in celebration
14:05-!-Netsplit <-> quits: randallman, jspiros, straterra, KBme, tuupola, bliblok, tomaw, bjorne, mattg, MaZ-, (+3 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
14:05<HoopyCat>oh shit, revenge
14:05-!-Netsplit over, joins: mac-mini, SNy, randallman, tomaw, MaZ-, KBme, jspiros, straterra, mattg, frank_usrs (+3 more)
14:07-!-BP{k}_ is now known as BP{k}
14:07<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: hrm, 9.10 you say?
14:08<HoopyCat>i can't remember when the dev /dev devtmpfs rw 0 0 requirement started
14:08<linbot>New news from forums: Permission denied (publickey) in General Discussion <>
14:09<DesertPanther_>I guess with 10.10
14:10<HoopyCat>looks like 10.04 started the requirement, from the 10.04 upgrade doc
14:10-!-Fieldy [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:10<DesertPanther_>I didn't upgrade anything though
14:10<HoopyCat>your fstab looks ok to me, at least
14:11-!-Bar [] has joined #linode
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14:13<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: in the dashboard, click on your configuration profile... i wonder if there's something weird in there
14:15<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: what are run level and root device set to?
14:15<DesertPanther_>Default Run Level
14:16-!-Giacomohhh [] has joined #linode
14:16<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: and "Standard" is selected and not Custom?
14:18<Steve^> has MX records pointing to Google. Am I going to be able to do for mainman?
14:18<mwalling>Steve^: yes, by creating MX records for
14:19<mwalling>but i think you'll be disappointed to know that doesn't have MX records pointing to google
14:19<mwalling>they point to
14:19<Peng>!dns6 mx
14:20<linbot>Peng: 0
14:20-!-Bar_ [] has joined #linode
14:20<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: i'm leaning towards a ticket for this one. the thing that's weird is that "nodevfs" is an argument on the kernel command line
14:20<DesertPanther_>is there a possiblity that there is data corruption or something?
14:21<Peng>On a related subject, I have MX records pointing to a third-party domain. And yet some clients query for the MX's A records against *my* DNS server. Huh?
14:21<Talman>Anyone have a recomendation for a Android 2.x SIP client?
14:21<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: it's a possibility, but it wouldn't be the first thing i'd necessarily think of
14:21<DesertPanther_>okay thanks, I will file a ticket now
14:22<HoopyCat>root=/dev/xvda xencons=tty console=tty1 console=hvc0 nosep nodevfs ramdisk_size=32768 ip_conntrack.hashsize=8192 nf_conntrack.hashsize=8192 ro
14:22<HoopyCat>^--- from my /proc/cmdline
14:23<HoopyCat>Peng: maybe you might know
14:23<Peng>What might I know?
14:23<Peng>fwiw, my /proc/cmdline is the same as HoopyCat's, except without the conntrack bits. I assume you added that?
14:24<HoopyCat>Peng: something about the MX's A records
14:24<Peng>HoopyCat: Yeah, but isn't that completely defeating the purpose of the DNS hierarchy?
14:25<DesertPanther_>HoopyCat, how can I check my own boot line?
14:25<HoopyCat>Peng: consider you've got a bunch of domains, all of which are MX'd to if they're all on the same nameservers as, maybe you can save a few milliseconds
14:25<Peng>And it's just asking for a cache-poisoning attack.
14:25-!-Bar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:25<HoopyCat>Peng: i did not add it; i did reboot today
14:25<Peng>HoopyCat: Huh. Yeah, my node has been up ages.
14:25<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: cat /proc/cmdline, but it'll be weird for you because you're booted into finnix
14:26<HoopyCat>Peng: i didn't say it was a GOOD idea, but it is an idea
14:26<Peng>HoopyCat: :D
14:27<HoopyCat>my longest-running linode is now 11 days :-) hooray break week
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14:27<DesertPanther_>mine ran for 6 months without stop...
14:28<HoopyCat>i was at 130 days or thereabouts this morning, but my / approached full due to a very ambitious web crawler and an underachieving log rotator
14:28-!-bede [~bede95@] has quit []
14:30-!-Steve^ [] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
14:30<linbot>New news from forums: Citadel Imap and Mac OS/X 10.6.5 in Email/SMTP Related Forum <> || postfix mail configuration in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
14:30-!-baKon [~baKon@] has joined #linode
14:32<baKon>I'm seeing high time to first byte under Apache on an unloaded and clean install. Where should I look first?
14:33<HoopyCat>baKon: where are you running the test from?
14:33<baKon>various locations
14:33<DesertPanther_>HoopyCat, root=/dev/xvdh xencons=tty console=tty1 console=hvc0 nosep nodevfs ramdisk_size=32768 ip_conntrack.h
14:33<DesertPanther_>ashsize=8192 nf_conntrack.hashsize=8192 ro  devtmpfs.mount=1
14:33<HoopyCat>baKon: about how long is the time?
14:33<baKon>mainly using pingdom tools
14:34<HoopyCat>DesertPanther_: yup, that's about what it should look like more or less. alas, it is different for finnix, which clearly does boot ok
14:35<linbot>New news from forums: X11 forwarding and iptables in Linux Networking <>
14:36<baKon>compared to this on my other VPS, loading identical content
14:36<HoopyCat>baKon: which colors mean what there? there's the lightish thing towards the beginning of the bars, the darker and generally longer part in the middle, then the blueish thing
14:38<HoopyCat>baKon: it looks like the html, css, and js objects are pretty fast... what has to happen to produce one of those objects that looks like a cotton plant?
14:38<baKon>Ah I see... yes, the light colour at the start is when the connection is established, the green in the middle is the time before first byte and the last blue bar is actual transfer
14:39<baKon>cotton plants are images
14:39<HoopyCat>baKon: are the images static?
14:39<HoopyCat><--- has shit for color vision :-)
14:40<baKon>yes, everything is static here
14:40<HoopyCat>baKon: hm, what web server are you running?
14:40<baKon>yeah I guessed
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14:42<bfrog>someones driving the disk on your vps to the ground?
14:42<bfrog>apache isn't that slow
14:42<HoopyCat>baKon: hmm... well, it should be reasonably fast if it's just reading from disk, and that should be readily cachable
14:43<baKon>I know... IO (and connectivity) seems fine otherwise
14:44<HoopyCat>baKon: are there any PHP applications in use anywhere on this server, or will there foreseeably be some?
14:45<HoopyCat>if you're a no-PHP zone, switching to the worker mpm may improve things
14:45<baKon>HoopyCat: a couple of pages with trivial PHP, but it's my least busy domain, hence why I've moved it over to my Linode first. So bascially, no
14:46<baKon>No, I will be need PHP in the future
14:48<HoopyCat>i'm hoping apache tuners will chime in at some point :-) i usually either move static objects to a CDN or stick nginx in front of apache, which is the lazy way out. but yeah, i'd expect it to be a wee bit faster fo shizzle
14:49<dominikh>HoopyCat: why not only use nginx, instead of nginx+apache?
14:50-!-Steve^ [] has joined #linode
14:50<Steve^>Lost my connection, don't suppose anyone responded to my mailman question?
14:51<Peng>Steve^: I don't see any references to your nick in the last half-hour.
14:52<Peng>Um, s/in the last half-hour/since you disconnected/
14:52<HoopyCat>dominikh: in one case, the client uses virtualmin for administration, and i didn't want to reinvent the wheel
14:52<dominikh>Steve^: and I don't see any mailman question
14:52<Peng>Wait, which mailman question.
14:52<Peng>Did you see:
14:52<Peng>19:18:27 < mwalling> Steve^: yes, by creating MX records for
14:52<Steve^>no! ok
14:52<Steve^>I create a separate entry in the DNS manager for that?
14:53<dominikh>HoopyCat: oh, okay. those pesky clients!
14:53<mwalling>Steve^: you create a separate entry in the mx record section of the DNS manager
14:53<Peng>Steve^: You don't create a new zone, if that's what you meant.
14:53<baKon>HoopyCat: A CDN would be overkill for my purposes, and while I'm no performance nazi, this is WAY too slow for what seems to be a quick VPS with decent connectivity. I'm happy with Apache for the kind of traffic I deal with.
14:53<Steve^>I see the subdomain field, :)
14:53<HoopyCat>dominikh: it's usually my whizbang your-website-sucks-10x-less-in-2-hours-or-i'll-still-bill-you "oh my god we're on fire" special
14:53-!-LadyNikon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:54<Steve^>I think I'll do some background reading in MX, just to be sure
14:54<Steve^>thanks guys
14:54<mwalling>you want lists in the subdomain field
14:55-!-k[t [~]] has joined #linode
14:55*snobby is alive
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14:56<HoopyCat>baKon: nod... it might be interesting to fire up tcpdump, save the traffic to a file while you run the test, and analyze it with wireshark. that's probably what i'd do, but as you've probably already guessed, i first go for the overkill solution
14:57<Steve^>mwalling, would I need the A record for lists. as well?
14:57-!-k[t [~]] has quit []
14:57<Peng>Steve^: If you want Mailman's management web app to work, yes.
14:58<dominikh>tcpdump, eheh. at my current hoster, the one that uses linux-vserver, they disallow stuff like tcpdump, mtr etc. it used to work, but it then also logged traffic of other customers :>
14:58<HoopyCat>dominikh: WAITER, CHECK PLEASE!
14:58-!-iondrip [~nibbler@] has joined #linode
14:59<baKon>linode won't mind though?
14:59<baKon>I may give that a try
14:59<dominikh>why would they. linode doesn't suck :>
14:59<HoopyCat>baKon: you'll only see your own traffic
14:59<HoopyCat>(and probably some ARP traffic, maybe)
15:00<baKon>domonikh: how were you able to see other people's traffic, OoI?
15:01<dominikh>baKon: linux-vserver uses a different kind of virtualisation. all customers share the same kernel and apparantly stuff wasn't separated properly
15:01<HoopyCat>heh, just did the pingdom test on an apache... indeed, about 900 ms from connect to first byte for jquery.js (which is not CDN'd, thanks wordpress)
15:01<dominikh>(other implications: no custom mounts, no loading of own kernel modules, a kernel panic crashes all customers on the same node)
15:02<baKon>oh, shared kernel. Is OpenZ vulnerable to what you were describing?
15:02<linbot>New news from forums: Suggestions for mail in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
15:02<HoopyCat>700 ms from soup->nuts for the dynamically-generated full-of-kitten-farts html
15:03<dominikh>baKon: I don't know. worth trying for sure
15:03<HoopyCat>(note: this isn't on a linode, and it's 520 ms to pull the jquery.js using wget from my PC)
15:04<dominikh>"Is VServer secure? - We hope so. It should be as least as secure as Linux is. We consider it much much more secure though" ← lol :)
15:05<HoopyCat>baKon: tried using something like the developer tools in chrome to time this? i... am having my doubts about pingdom
15:05-!-steven [] has joined #linode
15:05<steven>hello all
15:05<HoopyCat>baKon: (in short, pingdom says 900 ms, chrome says 49 ms)
15:06<HoopyCat>which is, in the grand scheme of things, reasonably close
15:06<steven>i have a quick question - i'm reading the docs about configuring a new ip. they reference the "network" tab in the linode manager, but that appears to have gone away in the new linode manager.
15:06<steven>any idea where i get the network info from now?
15:06<@pparadis>remote access
15:06<HoopyCat>steven: Remote Access tab :-)
15:07*HoopyCat beats pparadis within 851 ms of his life
15:07<steven>ahhh, awesome. was avoiding that, i thought it was just the ajax console.
15:07<HoopyCat>i suppose the network is remote, and it is a means of access
15:07<baKon>HoopyCat: I'll give it a try
15:08<steven>indeed it is :-)
15:09<dominikh>"Remote Access" is a confusing title!
15:09-!-kx7 [~]r@2001:0:53aa:64c:2823:6e0b:b355:d5f1] has joined #linode
15:09<@caker>less confusing than "Console" and "Network". People thought ajaxterm was the only way to access their Linodes
15:10<dominikh>I am still missing RDP access
15:10-!-kx7 is now known as k[t
15:11<dominikh>(beware, kidding!)
15:11<steven>i'd like carrier pigeon access
15:11<steven>if possible pls :-P
15:12<linbot>New news from forums: Problems with StackScripts in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
15:14<steven>anyhow, thanks for the help
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15:16<@Perihelion>Pigeons are faster than internets in South Africa \o/
15:17<dominikh>but in South Africa, pigeons would get eaten
15:17<Steve^>But they have trouble crossing the rest of Africa without being eaten
15:17-!-Xenc [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:23<baKon>HoopyCat: Chrome developer tools paints a much more even picture
15:25<baKon>but my connection is 2Mb here so I'm not exactly pushing it
15:26<HoopyCat>baKon: you're troubleshooting a latency problem, not a throughput problem :-)
15:26<baKon>it's true
15:27<Steve^>Don't suppose there is a command hidden in linux that moves and symlinks it from the old location?
15:27<baKon>I'm testing throughput right now and it seems fine
15:27<Steve^>*moves a file
15:27<baKon>but I'm on contended ADSL at peak hours and latencies are all over the shop
15:29<Peng>Steve^: No, but there are mv and ln!
15:29<Peng>Steve^: If you want to do it atomically, it should be possible to use a hardlink and then overwrite the source with a symlink.
15:29<HoopyCat>Steve^: not off the top of my head, but you could probably script something
15:29<Steve^>Peng, indeed, I can write my own
15:29<HoopyCat>Peng: i can't figure out if that's insane or awesome
15:30<Steve^>sounds scary to me
15:33<HoopyCat>^--- scary
15:34<HoopyCat>heat: check. oxygen: check. fuel? available by the loaf
15:37<maushu>HoopyCat, most people are morons, seriously.
15:37<maushu>...and I mean the people that didn't see that it was a diy heater.
15:37<maushu>Because who did that is pure genius.
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15:52<linbot>New news from forums: Anything special I should do to get pop3 working now? in Email/SMTP Related Forum <> || Nginx FastCGI caching in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
15:54<Talman>Christ this town is fucked up.
15:55<Talman>I went to the head. THe bathroom. Spent 6 minutes in there.
15:55<Talman>They sent a cop in at t the 5 minute mark to find out if everything was OK.
15:55<bfrog>Talman: where's that, somewhere in texas?
15:56<Talman>Minneapolis Central Library.
15:56<bfrog>wouldn't think minneapolis is retarded
15:56<bfrog>but what do I know
15:56<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, probably checking to see if you were not giving yourself a bit loving ;)
15:57<bfrog>well in chicago the public library bathroom is I swear, the bum bathroom of the city
15:57<HoopyCat>Talman: SIR! ARE YOU POOPING?
15:57<Talman>More like, "Sir, are you ok?"
15:58<dominikh>my average session is way longer than 5 minutes. they'd have much work with me
15:58<HoopyCat>Talman: i dunno... five-minute response time is pretty damn good
15:58<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, should have answered, "no i need to to help me for a bit"
15:58<Talman>There are cops on every floor.
15:58<Karrde>you work in a prison?
15:58<Karrde>or a high school?
15:58<Talman>The police presence in downtown is "police state"
15:59<Talman>Its a county library, so there area bout 20 security guards and 10 cops.
15:59<Talman>City Hall is worse.
15:59<HoopyCat>Talman: it is here, too, but the wait time is typically longer than five minutes AFTER the paramedics show up
15:59-!-atula [] has joined #linode
15:59<@caker>tjfontaine: !!!
15:59<Daevien>and talman, to be honest. you do spend your entire day in either starbucks or the library and are kidn of sickly. they prob figure you are abum / addict :p
15:59<Talman>I have never, ever, had anyone 00 or had to -- check on someone in a bhatroom.
16:00<tjfontaine>caker: !!!
16:00<Talman>Daevien: The guards at starbucks don't hassle me. :)
16:00<Talman>They hassle every other poor bastard.
16:00<tjfontaine>I somehow broke my textmate
16:01<Talman>Also, Daevien, I do not appear ill at all.
16:01<Talman>Unless I am off my meds for a week. But then I'm in a hospital.
16:01-!-alexgordon [~alexgordo@] has joined #linode
16:01<Daevien>ah, thought you prob owuld form the stuff you've described
16:02<Talman>Anyway, the one thing the library does not have is food. Oppressive police state, yes. Shoddy wifi, yes. Food, no.
16:03-!-baKon [~baKon@] has joined #linode
16:03<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, the library here has a full on restaurant, but it is a bit on the expensive side
16:04<Talman>Here there's a large sign saying no food.
16:04<Talman>Drink acceptable in covered containers.
16:04<Daevien>my wifi connection would almost reach to the library here, it's on the opposite side of my street from my house behind a house with a small backyard :p
16:04<DephNet[Paul]>your not allowed food in the library, but you can take books/laptops into the restaurant
16:04<@caker>my not?
16:04<Talman>You could destroy a book with food.
16:05<Talman>ANyway, lunch calls.
16:05<Daevien>can destroy a book without food OR drink
16:05<DephNet[Paul]>caker, do you mean "why not?"
16:05<Daevien>maybe they thought you were using some rare book as toilet paper Talman :p
16:05<@caker>DephNet[Paul]> your not
16:06<DephNet[Paul]>caker, i mean, you're
16:07-!-baKon [~baKon@] has left #linode []
16:07*Daevien stabs his isp. freaks keep changing my ip all over the place. 24./96./173./72. are ones i've seen thus far, ip4 address crunch is annoying
16:08<Daevien>if they were some huge isp, ok, maybe. but they are only in nova scotia, one small province :p
16:10<HoopyCat>Daevien: i, for one, wish the mailman would use the same mail tray every day
16:10<HoopyCat>afk, sorting the silverware drawer
16:10-!-bfrog [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:11<Daevien>my mailman hates me probably. punk kept not closing my mailbxo so my mail would get soaked when it rained & other lazy shit. so i left junk mail in there for 2 weeks so it was crammed full of soggy shit. thus far, he's gotten the messga ebut i imagine he's not real happy with me :p
16:13-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
16:18<Steve^>Has anyone done virtual hosting with mailman? The docs reference /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman which doesn't exist in Ubuntu 10.10
16:22<Talman>>.> OK, so they weren't checking on me.
16:22<Talman>There was a TON of cops at the exit. Someone must be wanted in there.
16:23<Steve^>Wanted for drink reading
16:23<Steve^>A complete disregard for the education of others
16:24<Talman>I'm not sure why. But they had a checkpoint setup, you had to stop and let the security guards search your bags on the way out.
16:26<DesertPanther_>looks like I will have to redeploy :(
16:26<DesertPanther_>guys do you have any idea how to rescue my data and MySQL dbs?
16:27<Talman>mysqldump, tar and sftp it out?
16:28<Daevien>Talman: yeah those dreaded book smugglers are out, they are tryign to stop them!
16:28<DesertPanther_>no I have to get it from Finnix recovery
16:28<Talman>... I would not be surprised if it was that.
16:29<Talman>DesertPanther_: you can't get in to your lindoe?
16:29<DesertPanther_>Talman, yeah, kernel panic
16:29<Talman>... I am totally making and I'm not sure what it'd sell. Linux powered ... what's a doe? Linux powered deer?
16:30-!-Damian [~Damian@] has joined #linode
16:30<Daevien> is already registered fyi :p
16:31<Talman>Who does what with it.
16:31<Daevien>typical ad infested page
16:31<DesertPanther_>is it hosted at itself? xD
16:31<Daevien>imagine they prob get decent hits from people that can't spell. ie: me
16:31<Talman>KOrean guy.
16:32<Talman>I see that the domain parker doesn't know what to make of linode.
16:35<malesca>How come the dashboard shows graphs for CPU, traffic and IO but not memory? I realize I can generate those stats myself, but just curious.
16:35<tjfontaine>because memory is internal to you
16:35<dominikh>malesca: technically not possible
16:35<@caker>malesca: from our perspective, you're using 100% of memory all the time
16:36<tjfontaine>dominikh: that's not true, but just not interesting to linode bceause they allocate 100%
16:36<@caker>but ... just wait :)
16:36<tjfontaine>caker: why I created linode-javascript,
16:37<malesca>Ah, so the other info is available from outside of my VPS, but not memory? Thanks all.
16:38<Karrde>disk is also not available from outside
16:38<linbot>HoopyCat: IP:; rDNS:; ASN adv net:; ASN: AS13618; ASN owner: Carolina Internet; ASN reg: 1999-07-15; Abuse contact:; Net owner: Carolina Internet, Ltd.; City: Charlotte; State: North Carolina; Postal code: 28217; Country: US;
16:39<malesca>Karrde: Thanks
16:45<HoopyCat>caker: pls make it so that when i use a referral code as an API key, it automatically does the right thing and gives me full access to my account so that-- oh wait
16:45<HoopyCat>caker: DISREGARD THAT
16:45*HoopyCat mails it in
16:45<Steve^>Has anyone done virtual hosting with mailman?
16:46<dominikh>I am seriously amazed by Lish
16:47<Steve^>OMG is down
16:47<Steve^>somebody hold me
16:47*Karrde snuggles Steve^
16:49<Cromulent>hmm how does one go about doing a development to production instant swap over by using DNS? I know certain providers allow you to test a dev version and the switch it with the current production version by some DNS trickery but I have no idea how it actually works without requiring DNS to propagate again
16:49<Cromulent>Windows Azure for instance offers this
16:51<Steve^>you want to swap one VPS for another?
16:51<Cromulent>err kinda
16:51<HoopyCat>like, you have one machine serving production stuff, then you have a second machine upon which you do development, and then you want to push a button and move production traffic to the dev machine?
16:51<Cromulent>pretty much - just an instant switch so dev becomes production and therefore production can then be used for dev
16:52<GLaDOSDan>Have an insanely low TTL I guess, Cromulent
16:52<HoopyCat>Cromulent: i usually just use the IP Swap button
16:53<HoopyCat>Cromulent: push button to initiate shutdown and swap, queue a boot job for the two machines, and bam
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16:53<Cromulent>HoopyCat: ah thanks
16:55<HoopyCat>(can also be done by setting up IP failover between the two linodes in advance, and then applying necessary network configuration voodoo at the right moment, but.... well, IP Swap is easier)
16:56<Steve^>Would be easiest via some sort of load balancer?
16:56<@caker>Linode's setup uses a couple of nginx proxies and a few A records for {stuff}, which proxy to back-end servers which I can take in/out of rotation on demand. I love it. Of course, everything is in one facility.
16:56-!-atula [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:57<HoopyCat>nod... if you can swing it, having a load balancer layer is swank
16:57<Cromulent>cheers for the ideas
16:57<@caker>supposedly if one of the nginx proxies goes down, browsers will use the next A record, but I've seen mixed results relying on that. The nginx proxies rarely aren't in operation so that's not a big issue (and the majority of people will still be served until the other nginx proxy comes back)
16:58<thezach>softlayer is pissing me off
17:00<dominikh>let's assume I don't like munin. any lightweight alternative which is tailored towards monitoring a small number of servers (1-5)?
17:00<dominikh>something I can host myself .)
17:01<HoopyCat>which part of munin do you dislike/what do you want to do better?
17:02<dominikh>it's a general "aww" feeling so I am basically just trying to check alternatives. more interactive graphs would be nice though
17:03<HoopyCat>ok, what do you LIKE about munin? :-) "more interactive graphs" is going to be an unusual order to fill, as many things tend to use rrdtool, which Is What It Is
17:04<efudd>still no /members/info :/
17:04<dominikh>what do I like about munin? It can generate graphs :p – It's not really doing anything but collecting data and drawing graphs, not much else to like there :)
17:04<thezach>what would it take to move my linode to another data center?
17:04<HoopyCat>dominikh: it's actually not generating the graphs either
17:04<dominikh>thezach: a ticket.
17:05<HoopyCat>thezach: a ticket and a few minutes of downtime and a new IP address
17:05<Talman>A request for migration.
17:05<dominikh>+ tinfoil, a dead chicken and a shaman
17:05<Talman>dominikh: I know what you're asking. How do I hurl lighting from my fingertips?
17:05<Talman>Be a SHATNER, baby.
17:07<Talman>ALso, that's gotta be annoying.
17:07<Talman>I was sitting here, talking to one of the guards at brookfield.
17:07<Talman>And a cop came into the starbucks. o the guard has to ask the cop if everything is OK.
17:07<Talman>He wanted a coffee.
17:08<HoopyCat>"Yeah, dispatch got a silent alarm that there might be a problem, and, uhh, I'm going to have to double-check your coffee supply, if that's alright with you."
17:09<HoopyCat>"Anything out of place here? Are those pastries always that delicious-looking? Seems suspicious... I'm going to have to 'test' a couple of these. *glove snap*"
17:09<hobot>did someone say tasting pastries
17:09*hobot napkin deploy
17:09<HoopyCat>"Do these bottles contain any alcohol? *foomp* *sniff sniff* *glug* Hrm..."
17:10<Talman>Amusingly enough, you can sample any item in a starbucks for free.
17:10<HoopyCat> -- excerpts from "Why They Don't Let Me Be A Cop"
17:10-!-redgore [~redgore@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:10<Talman>The guys at one financial try to get me to eat their pumpkin scones.
17:10<Talman>I like pumpkin, but hate scone.
17:11<Talman>For the record, I moved and live in a shithole apartment that is a city wifi dead spot but the rent is cheap.
17:11<Talman>I basically sleep there.
17:11<HoopyCat>why sample the milk when you can get the whole cow for $4.49?
17:12<Talman>Some stuff I have sampled. Mainly to see what their new shit is.
17:12<Talman>Like their eggnog hot chocolate.
17:12<Talman>That stuff rocks.
17:15-!-Damian [~Damian@] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
17:20<Steve^>Anyone done postfix/mailman? I'm fearing the docs are confused
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17:21<malesca>Steve^: On what point?
17:21<Steve^>On this is relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
17:21<Steve^>Firstly the file doesn't exist and secondly the postfix guys say it's crazy to use relaying for this
17:23<HoopyCat>hmm, i appear to use a transport that sends the mail through /var/lib/mailman/bin/ ${nexthop} ${mailbox}
17:23<Steve^>that's what the guide suggests, I think
17:23<Steve^>I'm using 10.10, but I don't think it's an incompatibility between that and 10.04
17:23<HoopyCat>the comments in that file are pretty much what my config files look like, it seems
17:24<HoopyCat>at least on my 8.04 system
17:24<HoopyCat>mailman, as you can guess, tends to not change too drastically these days
17:26<DesertPanther_>can I access Finnix with SFTP?
17:27<HoopyCat>passwd, then /etc/init.d/ssh start or something like that, then bam
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17:28<linbot>New news from forums: Citadel Imap and Mac OS/X 10.6.5 in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
17:29<DesertPanther_>let's see
17:29<Steve^>HoopyCat, do you have a like it suggests here: ?
17:30<HoopyCat>Steve^: pretty much, but without relay_recipient_maps
17:30-!-mig5 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:30<Steve^>that's the bit that's broken for me!
17:32<DesertPanther_>Error: Authentication failed.
17:32-!-Chris___ [goose@] has joined #linode
17:32<HoopyCat>Steve^: per i suspect it is generated by genaliases? dunno. i just send it all to mailman and let god sort it out
17:33<DesertPanther_>oh it worked now, cool!
17:33<Steve^>HoopyCat, I expect genaliases to do it.. but for some reason it doesn't generate that particular file
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17:36<DesertPanther_>HoopyCat, I can't get /mnt sub-directories to be displayed
17:36-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
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17:37<pseudonymous>n00b question: how come the linode 512's say 200GB transfer but once subbed it says 26GB NW traffic ?
17:38<dominikh>wait, "subbed"?
17:38<pseudonymous>subscribed, I should say.
17:38<dominikh>ah. well yes, it's prorated, just like your payment
17:38<DesertPanther_>Error: Directory /UNIONFS/mnt/xvdb: no such file or directory
17:39<pseudonymous>prorated means to distribute, right ? Across what, exactly ?
17:39-!-nuclear [] has joined #linode
17:39<purrdeta>as in like... since you only have a few days left of this month you only pay for that time as such you only get that much traffic
17:40<Peng>(Well, near the end of the month, you pay for this month + the next month.)
17:40<pseudonymous>oooooh. Ok - it was a bit of a WTF moment when I saw that ;)
17:40-!-snobby [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:42<dominikh>pro-rated, heh. in Germany we say pro rata temporis. what's up with the Latin...
17:42<pseudonymous>A more.. fun sort of question. If any of you on-line now only use their VPS as a private thing, what do you use it for, exactly ? I have a few things in mind, but if anyone have any cool ideas I might as well :)
17:42<avenj>lots of it
17:42<dominikh>avenj: not so much, actually. small hdd :P
17:43<pseudonymous>maybe he runs a FUSE filesystem with some sort of data-compression to cram more in there ? ;)
17:43<Peng>NTP server, authoritative DNS server, IRC client (irssi), web server, proxy.
17:43<dominikh>pseudonymous: I mainly use it for hosting my mail, personal blog and an instance of weechat (IRC client). soon it will also host an OpenVPN and the website of a project :)
17:43<Peng>dominikh: It's text pr0n. :D
17:43<dominikh>Peng: awesome
17:43<avenj>of course
17:44<pseudonymous>Well, I'm probably throwing the following up: 1) SVN for personal notes and projects , 2) HTTP + Python (for fun) and TRAC(HTTP/PHP) for managing code projects -- But yea, so far I'm just looking to see if there's anything else I want
17:44<purrdeta>I run so many random servers
17:44-!-kernelpan1c [] has joined #linode
17:44<Peng>Yeah, I use it for VCS hosting (which falls under HTTP and SSH)
17:44<dominikh>Everytime someone uses SVN, god kills a kitten
17:45<pseudonymous>Good, I really hate kittens
17:45<Peng>Crap, I killed like 3 kittens today.
17:45<Peng>Hopefully they were just at a non-no-kill shelter.
17:45-!-malesca [~malesca@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45<dominikh>pseudonymous: fine, in your case, he spawns new ones
17:45<pseudonymous>oh n0es! -- seriously though, this is the part where you'll start selling GIT, right ? ;)
17:46<dominikh>pseudonymous: I generally start selling DVCS in general.
17:46-!-malesca [~malesca@] has joined #linode
17:46-!-TheUniverses [] has joined #linode
17:46<dominikh>generally in general!
17:47-!-malesca [~malesca@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:47-!-LinodeJavaUser [] has joined #linode
17:48-!-LinodeJavaUser [] has quit []
17:48<pseudonymous>oh well. will be fun.. First VPS ever.. But being able to select Arch Linux from the list gave me a warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy right from the start ^^
17:48-!-TheUniverses [] has quit []
17:48<avenj>sure it's not the 190 proof?
17:49-!-CabaL [] has joined #linode
17:49-!-kernelpan1c [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:50-!-Hoggs [~Hoggs@] has joined #linode
17:50-!-mig5 [] has joined #linode
17:50<pseudonymous>Great.. Searching for "what to do with VPS" and by the time I get to "what to do with" the top-most suggestion is "what to do with my life" ....
17:51-!-mig5 [] has left #linode []
17:51-!-Boohemian [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:51<avenj>buy lots of VPSes of course
17:52*pseudonymous thinks he's found a Linode employee
17:52<avenj>they're all ninjas
17:52<Karrde>and you don't have an @
17:52<marius>when playing minecraft
17:52<marius>do NOT blow up 4 million TNT at once
17:53<marius>it's been exploding for ~8 hours so far
17:53<marius>and it's not done yet
17:53<thezach>I guess i'll be getting an SLA refund this month
17:54<linbot>New news from forums: Linode + ThePlanet handle DMCA notice with class in Customer Testimonials <>
17:55<@Perihelion>marius: Why would you do that xD
17:55-!-CabaL [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:55-!-compywiz_ [] has joined #linode
17:55<Karrde>that guy necro'd a 5 year old topic with a useless spiteful comment
17:55<marius>Perihelion, I wanted to test it out, we noticed that 1 200 000 tnt made the server lag for 5 minutes
17:55<@heckman>Jeez marius are you just sitting there watching it?
17:56<marius>heckman, I wish, I'm restarting the server non stop, as it shuts it self down due to a too large update ratio :P
17:56<marius>it can't handle it all, but it gracefully shuts down
17:56<dominikh>you should've backed up the world :P
17:56<marius>tnt explosions are clientside now, so it lags the client more then the server
17:56<marius>dominikh, I didn't ;)
17:56<marius>because backign up takes FOR EVER, sincei t's just a gazillion little files
17:57<marius>it seems the server only shuts down if I try to login from spawn
17:57<marius>err *try to login when I'm at the bad tnt location
18:01<dominikh>malicious idea: get a couple of friends, connect to a random MC server and start walking in different connections infinitively, causing the server to generate new parts of the world all the time, filling the disk and using up inodes
18:02<@Perihelion>Already done that
18:02<@Perihelion>It was glorious
18:02<marius>also known as "map size griefing"
18:02-!-milkmit [] has joined #linode
18:03<dominikh>too many bad people on the internet :<
18:03<marius>I use whitelisting on my server
18:03<marius>working on an extensive control panel atm
18:06<purrdeta>haha yall are evil :P
18:06-!-CyZooNiC [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:07<dominikh>main 2 reasons I am not playing on a multiplayer server: 1) laggy 2) I cannot import my world.
18:07<milkmit>do I hear minecraft talk?
18:08<milkmit>thought I'd joined the wrong channel for a second :)
18:08<marius>we love minecraft :3
18:09<marius>dominikh, my servers usually don't lag, except right now due to the amount of TNT i blasted
18:09<@Perihelion>tl;dr Marius is a dumb.
18:09<dominikh>marius: it might well be my client which is slow because of many players
18:09<milkmit>yeah I was considering putting up a server tonight.. haven't tried that stuff yet
18:09<marius>TNT explosiosn are all clientside
18:10<marius>so yes, that would be clients having issues, but the server has ot render al lthe server changes ;P
18:10<marius>milkmit, remember it's a memory hog :P
18:10<dominikh>marius: that was not in reference to stupid admins with TNT madness running :P – my client runs slow on all MP servers
18:10-!-jarryd [] has quit [Quit: jarryd]
18:10<milkmit>hmm, I was under the assumption that the server wasn't so bad.. hmmm
18:10<dominikh>it is.
18:10-!-jarryd [] has joined #linode
18:10<marius>it's a mosnter
18:11<dominikh>it's a) written in Java b) written by Notch
18:11<marius>I'm running it on a 4g node, and it's eating pretty much all the ram there
18:11-!-eighty4 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:11<marius>dominikh, did you see how notch has been struggelign with a bug for days, his new employee guy took one look at it and fixed it in 5 min :P
18:11<milkmit>geez.. I've got the cheap $20 node.. maybe I *won't* be deploying a server tonight or any time soon... :)
18:11<dominikh>marius: yeah... I also saw how Notch was not able to fix his servers several times... He really isn't that capable.
18:11<marius>milkmit, I'd recomend having a minimum of 1GB ram dedicated to the server alone, that's the bare minimum
18:12<marius>dominikh, he just got REALLY lucky I think
18:12<dominikh>like Microsoft
18:12<marius>by all means, all credit to him for having the idea that I love
18:12<milkmit>wow thanks
18:12<marius>but the server needs ot be in something that own't kill a server memory wise
18:12<marius>the client to preferably
18:12<pseudonymous>Go Microsoft hate =)
18:12<marius>did you see him discard the website he was paying soeone to make because he had a change of heart and wanted the website ot be written in java so he could edit it him self?
18:13<marius>the tnt is clearing out it seems
18:13<marius>soem of the areas it elft are quite nice
18:13<marius>I also notice little TNT holes in random locations as it blew tnt miles away
18:13<dominikh>marius: how did you even manage to create so much TNT. map editor?
18:14<marius>LOIC plugin :P
18:14<marius>Low Orbit Ion Cannon, it's recomended NEVER ot go above power 6 (it goes 1-10)
18:14<marius>I blasted power 10
18:17<marius>this is amazing
18:17<marius>IO blasted it in a large lake
18:17<marius>there's a big circular hole in the center
18:17<marius>where the ion cannon "blasted" down
18:17<marius>(aka spawned tnt's in a huge circle form form the sky with diamonds surrounding it)
18:17-!-milkmit is now known as whatthepoop
18:18<marius>and then tehre's just water as if nothign happened, but when you jump into the water, you can see stragiht down to bedrock everywhere
18:21<MaZ->hmm, are linodes not limited to 50mbit by default anymore?
18:21<MaZ->or is it only outbound?
18:21<MaZ->or am i mad and it never was?
18:21<@jed>it's outbound, MaZ-
18:21<dominikh>they are afaik
18:21<MaZ->ha k
18:22<@jed>MaZ-: if you find you're banging on it, we can look at removing it, as well - it's very rare that someone legitimately demonstrates a need, though
18:23<MaZ->i go through short periods where it does get hit but its p. rare (mirroring game videos)
18:23-!-nate [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:23<MaZ->was just curious cos i was pulling something down at 10MB/sec and couldnt remember if it was only outbound or both :>
18:24-!-nate [] has joined #linode
18:26-!-eighty4 [] has joined #linode
18:26<pseudonymous>christ that's a bit faster than my previous SVN account, nice XD
18:26<Peng>Just curious, do the top-level plans have the 50 Mbps limit too?
18:26-!-eighty4 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:27<Peng>!f 2000 GB / 50 Mbps
18:27<linbot>Peng: This was a triumph. I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.
18:27<Peng>!newcalc 2000 GB / 50 Mbps
18:27<linbot>Peng: You broke teh goog!
18:27<Peng>!newercalc 2000 GB / 50 Mbps
18:27<linbot>Peng: urmom
18:27<Peng>You suck, linbot!
18:27<Peng>3.8 days.
18:28<thezach>Gawd I hate linode with a pasion right now
18:28<dominikh>and that'd be why?
18:29*Peng checks backlog
18:29<thezach>i got a crap DMCA complaint from a fucker
18:29<thezach>could not respond in time
18:29<Peng>Oh, it was bogus?
18:30<thezach>and linode won't turn back on my linode until monday even though I removed the stuff through Finnix and filed a counter notice
18:30<Peng>Ah. That sucks, then.
18:30<Peng>Wait, Monday? Why?
18:30<dominikh>isn't it a holiday?
18:30<dominikh>today, that is
18:31<thezach>because certain fuckers only work m-f
18:31<dominikh>I love hating hosters, but I fail to see how this is Linode's fault
18:31<thezach>and its cute how they cut services at 6pm on a friday
18:32<pseudonymous>If I'm calculating this right, it should be quite possible to run a teamspeak server with a decent amount of people, even if you use a Linode 512 (with 200GB traffic/mo), right ?
18:32-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
18:32<dominikh>pseudonymous: probably. what's the expected traffic per hour?
18:32<@jed>pseudonymous: how much does teamspeak use per-person per-hour on average?
18:33<Peng>oh hai jed
18:33<thezach>its bull crap
18:33<@heckman>I think I've seen TS3, at moderate settings, estimating 7 kb/s
18:33<@heckman>or was it kB/s...
18:33<@jed>that's 17 GB/month, if it's 7 kB/s
18:34<@heckman>Sorry, 5.32 KiB/s
18:34<@jed>13.1 GB/month
18:34<HoopyCat>thezach: so when did they send you the notice?
18:34<HoopyCat>thezach: and what, precisely, was the URL of the infringing content?
18:35<thezach>Hoopy: The notice never gave a precice URL of the infringing content
18:35<thezach>it just stated images in on a URL
18:35<superdug>if you can't wget the infringing content, you shouldn't have to act on the notice
18:35<superdug>that's my rule
18:36<SNy>We have one running here since 16 days, 2.08 GiB in, 5.58 GiB out.
18:36<SNy>If that helps.
18:36<mwalling>thezach: and when did they send you the notice?
18:36<@heckman>How many users?
18:36<HoopyCat>thezach: so there was a URL, but it wasn't a precise URL
18:36<thezach>yea... it just specified images on a certain URL
18:36<mwalling>thezach: i'm sure it wasnt at 6 on a friday.
18:36<superdug>I like how the MPAA has made an auto-settle web app
18:36<SNy>That differs a lot. Sometimes about 12-16. Often just 4-5.
18:37<thezach>it was a 6 on a friday thing
18:37<mwalling>no, you said they shut you down at 6 on a friday
18:37<mwalling>which is it? did they give you notice or can you?
18:37<superdug>can he?
18:37<thezach>and the thing he wanted removed was a picture of him (which was properly attributed) and under fair use
18:37<thezach>they gave notice at like 2pm on friday
18:38<@heckman>SNy, yeah. I mean, it's hard to precisely gauge usage because not everyone is talking. So you might not be using any data for a certain amount of time
18:38<pseudonymous>As far as I can calculate. If there's 10 users on 24hrs a day using 19.5kbit codecs with one person talking constantly ( to force the server to send something to all remaining nine clients all the time) then it's about 2gb usage a day.
18:38<SNy>Yes, of course.
18:38<mwalling>thezach: and did you respond to the notice?
18:38<pseudonymous>That is, a really pessimistic view of how much traffic it can take ;)
18:38<SNy>It depends what above question means with "devent amount of people".
18:38-!-snubby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
18:38<thezach>i couldn't as i was out of town... however DMCA required 48 hours of notice
18:38<SNy>decent, even
18:39<mwalling>something doesnt add up, and i'm pretty sure its not linode
18:39<superdug>pseudonymous: I don't think it takes that high of bitrate for codecs
18:39<thezach>oh its linode
18:39<superdug>linode is the DMCA?
18:40<superdug>thats sorta neat
18:40<thezach>no... linode does not follow the DMCA
18:40<pseudonymous>superdug: probably not
18:40<mwalling>thezach: oh this i have to hear
18:40<thezach>it shut off my content with 4 hours of notice, even though the law requires 48
18:40<thezach>and 2 the DMCA did not properly identify the content
18:40<superdug>what was the picture of?
18:41<thezach>a person
18:41-!-hpj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:41<thezach>Joe Mele
18:41<mwalling>its linodes job to forward on takedowns, not determine the validity
18:42<thezach>and their also required to provide 48 hours notice
18:42<superdug>mwalling: but everyone on the internet is a lawyer, they should at least give an opinion on it
18:42<thezach>which they failed to do
18:42<mwalling>they are?
18:42<mwalling>48 hours is a long time in the world of the internet
18:42<thezach>at this point I'll likely be suing linode and the fucker for the false DMCA notice
18:43<superdug>also I believe all takedown notices should have to be read alloud by chinese screaming girls
18:43<pseudonymous>I want takedown notices to be read aloud by korean girls tho..
18:43<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
18:43<Ovron>this chicken-bacon-lettuce sandwich is awesome
18:43<thezach>wow... I call the upstream provider and do Linode's job
18:43<mwalling>thezach: let me know where your case is heard. i want to see how this goes down in person
18:44<mwalling>it will be lulz worthy
18:44<thezach>its likely to be Federal Court Western District of Michigan
18:44<HoopyCat>thezach: i'd highly recommend consulting with an attorney ASAP before commenting further in a public, logged channel
18:44<superdug>man if I had a dollar for everytime someone was going to sue someone else on the internet
18:44<superdug>well, I'd have a lot of dollars
18:44<Karrde>thezach sounds like a tough guy I want on my football team
18:44<mwalling>superdug: i'm going to sue HoopyCat
18:45<mwalling>superdug: heres $1
18:45<dominikh>superdug: someone wanted to sue me because I said that his website was ugly. he never did though.
18:45<Ovron>I am sueing due to feeling left out on not being sued
18:45<thezach>wow... I call the upstream provider and do Linode's job
18:45<superdug>I think we should permanently declare the word of the day for all days henceforth to be "sue"
18:45<thezach>and its taken care of in 10 minutes
18:45<Karrde>hey! my name is Sue! This is slander!
18:45<Karrde>(or was it libel?)
18:45-!-jmcfarlane [] has joined #linode
18:45<mwalling>thezach: you did what now?
18:45*Ovron hands mwalling a summoning on a post-it
18:45<dominikh>the upstream provider[sic] will boot a Linode? Nice!
18:45<HoopyCat>thezach: hooray! problem solved! now where's this picture
18:45<superdug>Karrde: both, it was written on the internet but read aloud in the voice that people have mentally given you for the duration of being in this channel
18:46<mwalling>thezach: ^^
18:46<mwalling>thezach: looks liek you're driving to jersey
18:46<mwalling>or taking grey hound
18:46-!-shani [shani@2001:470:1d:367::256] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:46<mwalling>cause you aren't flying, since you'll be broke paying for lawyers to laugh at you
18:46<jmcfarlane>any node issues in Freemont today?
18:47<mwalling>jmcfarlane: at 9:30 EST people were complaining of bad routing on the edge of and AT&T
18:47<@caker>18:42 < thezach> at this point I'll likely be suing linode and the fucker for the false DMCA notice
18:47<Peng>Showdown time?
18:47<@caker>thezach: and at this point I'll be canceling your account.
18:48<@caker>thezach: thanks for the threats last night
18:48<jmcfarlane>mwalling: coolio, one of mine had disc issues (unable to write to tmp)
18:48<jmcfarlane>mwalling: I'll chalk it up to the unexplained :)
18:48<Karrde>thezach: by the way, your attitude sucks. you're A-OK to be pissed off, but pissing on everyone and swearing at everything doesn't solve anything.
18:49<purrdeta>Karrde: or does it solve everything? Depending on how you look at it it might solve everything... just not in the way you want ;)
18:50<Karrde>we now return you to your regular schedule of puppies and Russian politictian:
18:50<Peng>Karrde: It sure is fun, though!
18:51<mwalling>thezach: i hear slicehost will give you 48 hours to comply with a DMCA, but thats because you're going to spend that long in iowait waiting for your rm to finish
18:52<mwalling>laggy linbot is laggy
18:52<pseudonymous>mwalling: nice one ^^
18:52<superdug>you can get a free account on chunkhost or something for 40 days or something
18:54<karlyn>can anybody help me, i have installed virtualmin for my client, when they are adding dns. what nameserver do they need to use?
18:54<karlyn>can anybody help me, i have installed virtualmin for my client, when they are adding "DOMAIN". what nameserver do they need to use?
18:55-!-jmcfarlane [] has left #linode []
18:58<HoopyCat>karlyn: are they looking to manage DNS via virtualmin?
18:58-!-ktabic [] has quit [Quit: I'm a professionally trainined computer scientist. That is to say, I am poorly educated]
18:58<HoopyCat>karlyn: (that is, do they have at least two servers?)
18:58-!-ktabic [] has joined #linode
19:00<karlyn>HoopyCat yes they are, they are asking me, what nameserver do they need to use. is it linode nameserver?
19:02<HoopyCat>karlyn: hmm... i would probably recommend they use linode's DNS manager and linode's nameservers ( through it will be the most reliable way to go, but will operate outside of virtualmin's control
19:02-!-synesthete [] has joined #linode
19:04<karlyn>HoopyCat so they need to access my linodemanager?
19:04-!-thezach [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:05-!-thezach [] has joined #linode
19:05<thezach>funny how caker does not follow his own tos
19:05<thezach>If at any time it becomes necessary for to cancel a customer's service without cause, will provide 30 days advance notice.
19:05<dominikh>"without cause"
19:05<nuclear>without cause, being the important phrase
19:06<thezach>there is no cause
19:06<linbot>New news from forums: [SOLVED]Access MySQL remotely error in Web Servers and Web App Development <> || Looking for freelance sysadmin/guru in General Discussion <>
19:06<HoopyCat>karlyn: you can add an account for them with access to the DNS Manager, even just specific domains
19:06<Peng>Plus, even if he's serious, maybe his statement is the 30 days of notice.
19:07-!-akl [] has quit [Quit: ...]
19:07<thezach>no hes giving 24 hours
19:07<thezach>without cause
19:08<SelfishMan>thezack: your stupidity blows my mind
19:09<purrdeta>how old are you anyway?
19:09<purrdeta>actually I don't want to know.
19:09<HoopyCat>thezach: if your attorney needs logs of this, have him give me a call
19:09<HoopyCat>or her
19:10<Peng>HoopyCat: Nah, it's all available on
19:10-!-akl [] has joined #linode
19:10<Peng>purrdeta: 20s or 30s, AFAIK.
19:11<purrdeta>meh, off to work I go. see ya
19:11<karlyn>HoopyCat once they added on the dns manager of linode, is it good to go in the virtualmin panel?
19:12<HoopyCat>karlyn: Account -> Users and Permissions -> Add a User -> choose "Yes" for Restricted User (sorry 'bout the delay, had to find it :-)
19:12<HoopyCat>karlyn: once the site is set up in virtualmin for the web stuff, and the domain is set up in the dns manager for the dns stuff, it should be ready to rock
19:14<karlyn>HoopyCat, but if i dont want my client to see that i am using linode, how can i setup my nameserver like, is it posible or not?
19:14-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
19:15<HoopyCat>karlyn: you COULD do that (by adding glue records through your domain registrar), but if linode's nameservers ever have to change IPs in the future, you'd have to update them
19:15<mwalling>Peng: why didnt you tell me that?
19:16<Peng>Who what where.
19:16<HoopyCat>karlyn: also, depending on your programming skills, you can add/modify domains via the linode API too
19:16*mwalling wonders away
19:16<Karrde>"for no reason" usually means "for a reason I do not understand or like"
19:17<HoopyCat>karlyn: (getting virtualmin to manage domains through the linode API is an exercise for the reader)
19:18<karlyn>HoopyCat should go to dns manager, hehe. i'm newbie in programming in linux. im a front end webdeveloper
19:18<dominikh>06:59:23 linodesucks │ I wish to cancel my linode like now
19:18<dominikh>06:59:33 linodesucks │ the staff sucks
19:18-!-atula [] has joined #linode
19:18<dominikh>06:59:33 Fieldy │ submit a ticket
19:18<dominikh>06:59:40 linodesucks │ i have... they refuse to respond
19:18<dominikh>07:00:33 linodesucks │ i want to move my websites elsewhere... but the fuck heads at linode won't even let me do that
19:18<dominikh>I guess Linode is just complying with his wish and cancelling his Linode :)
19:19<Peng>But it's easy to cancel your Linode yourself...
19:19<Peng>Although a refund requires a ticket.
19:20<HoopyCat>karlyn: do you know PHP? :-)
19:20<Karrde>no but I know kung fu
19:20<karlyn>HoopyCat i know php a little in the front end
19:20<dominikh>07:02:14* linodesucks │ fuck this shit... im going to go to caker's house if i have too
19:20<dominikh>07:03:11 amitz │ urmom already did.
19:21<dominikh>made me giggle :)
19:21<Karrde>what a pleasant child
19:21<pseudonymous>linodesucks: while frustration is hard to handle, do you really expect them to be cooperative if you stroll in here saying they suck and calling them fuckheads ? :/ I'm just saying, it'll probably only make this worse for you
19:21<mwalling>pseudonymous: nd of WHOIS
19:21<karlyn>linodesucks maybe you are like me noob.. lol but i have lot of patient
19:21<mwalling>pseudonymous: there is no such nick "linodesucks" :)
19:22<dominikh>fyi, my timestamps are GMT+1. linodesucks == thezach
19:22<Ovron>timestamps should only ever be UTC!!1 the only real time!
19:22<Karrde>one time to bind them
19:22<dominikh>Ovron: I would do that, if time in general was UTC everywhere.
19:22<pseudonymous>unless UTC is the abbreviation for Unix time, then no
19:22<Peng>dominikh: Where is this conversation happening?
19:23<Karrde>Peng: yesterday in #linode
19:23<mwalling>Peng: use a real client
19:23<Peng>I missed it!
19:23<Ovron>dominikh: it would be so much better, if that had been the case, heh
19:23<dominikh>Ovron: yup.
19:23<Peng>mwalling: Is that a script or something?
19:23<mwalling>Peng: i'll never tell
19:23<Peng>mwalling: And I'm on the same client as you according to your CTCP VERSION,
19:24<avenj>just read yesterday's log
19:24<avenj>what a very special child
19:24-!-Kos_ is now known as Kos
19:24<karlyn>HoopyCat forgot to ask when i'm in root on usermin it work completely, but on my user side. i have error on usermin "Error - Perl execution failed"
19:25<mwalling>avenj: this... individual caused an issue before, ended up with concerned individuals calling the local PD advising of a possible suicide
19:26<HoopyCat>karlyn: i forgot to mention to finish my API thought, haha
19:26<HoopyCat>karlyn: does that error happen when you try to get into usermin at all, or does it appear when you try to do something in particular?
19:26<Peng>mwalling: Twice.
19:27<mwalling>avenj: ^^
19:27<karlyn>HoopyCat it happens only in a non root priviledge account
19:27<avenj>so is this kid really psychotic or just a great troll?
19:27<mwalling>avenj: this one, the concensus is #1
19:27<mwalling>i for one, am #2
19:27<mwalling>scroll up :)
19:27<Peng>He's still here, you know.
19:27<dominikh>who are you talking about?
19:27<mwalling>dominikh: urmom
19:27<mwalling>Peng: so?
19:27<avenj>Peng: I know
19:28<dominikh>mwalling: urmom is sleeping, you shouldn't talk about sleeping people
19:28<mwalling>also, did he ban evade earlier?
19:28<avenj>Peng: I'm hoping he comes to my house to handle this in person
19:28<nuclear>wow..i, too, just read the logs from yesterday
19:29*Peng gets out yesterday's log.
19:29<HoopyCat>karlyn: i don't know enough about usermin to know where to start, unfortunately... i inherited the virtualmin boxes that i admin and i haven't been brave enough to dig in there
19:29<HoopyCat>karlyn: there might be something cool in apache's error log, though
19:30<Peng>How did I miss this yesterday?
19:30<Peng>I'm pretty sure I was online.
19:32-!-mode/#linode [-bbbb *!*@ *!*@ *!* *!*Me@*] by Perihelion
19:32-!-mode/#linode [-bbbb *!*b24f8bca@* *!*adc0827a@* *!*adc0827b@* *!*413151fb@*] by Perihelion
19:32<SelfishMan>this is why I avoid this channel. Always makes me want to hop a plane just to bitchslap people
19:32-!-mode/#linode [-b *!*413151fb@*] by Perihelion
19:32<nuclear>technically it looks like it happened early this morning
19:32<karlyn>HoopyCat oh try login in to using root and using non root account ------- i got the error on nonroot account
19:32<HoopyCat>karlyn: it's my day off! i'm not going to tempt the fates! :-)
19:33<mwalling>SelfishMan: sounds like you need to go for your pilots license
19:33-!-BarkerJr [] has quit []
19:33<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: you seem to only monitor this channel when people need to be bitchslapped
19:33<karlyn>HoopyCat oh, me i dont have day off. lol
19:33<SelfishMan>mwalling: was mostly certified for helicopters but then things happened
19:33<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: you weren't around when we had tea with the queen
19:33<mwalling>SelfishMan: helicoptors shouldnt fly
19:34<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: you weren't around when we knitted toques for the orphanage
19:34<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: I told you to call me when that happens
19:34<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: you weren't around when we mailed canned goods to the marines
19:35<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: but when dickface mcdickster shows up... THAT'S when you "help"
19:35<maushu>Varnish only caches data and load balances, right?
19:35<SelfishMan>!f toque
19:35<linbot>SelfishMan: A toque (pronounced /ˈtoʊk/ or /ˈtɒk/) is a type of hat with a narrow brim or no brim at all. They were popular from the 13th to the 16th century in Europe, especially France. Now, it is primarily known as the traditional headgear for professional cooks.
19:36<HoopyCat>karlyn: (i actually think it's more that my client has the day off from me... did a WPMU 2.7 -> WP 3.0 upgrade thursday night)
19:36<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: I was paged to help onthis occassion by multiple parties
19:36<SelfishMan>it happens a lot
19:37<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: we'll let you know the next time the queen shows up
19:37<nuclear> i'd rather have coffee with the king...although I suspect those crypts are rather dusty
19:38-!-Boohemian [] has joined #linode
19:38-!-Jere [] has joined #linode
19:38<superdug>there should be a federal international internet court
19:38<superdug>mwalling: get on that
19:39<mwalling>superdug: want me to be judge
19:39<superdug>mwalling: the only opening I have is ebay feedback courts
19:40<HoopyCat>ed hochuli
19:40<DrJ>will visitors notice a difference between server response time of 10ms and 50ms
19:40<superdug>DrJ: depends, how old are they?
19:40<DrJ>why does age matter
19:41<HoopyCat>DrJ: in the grand scheme of things, probably not. so many other things will take time.
19:41<HoopyCat>superdug: i can't wait to see where this is going
19:41-!-ralphholzmann is now known as ralphholzmann_afk
19:41<superdug>why does age matter? age is everything, in the world of instant gratification, anyone under the age of thirty wouldn't stand for a 50ms but someone with a few years on them, they can appreciate waiting for something good
19:41-!-ralphholzmann_afk is now known as ralphholzmann
19:41<DrJ>haha, ic
19:42<HoopyCat>i'm 29 and what is this
19:42<nuclear>people around 30+ also remember the era of dialup
19:42<linbot>New news from forums: Minecraft server help in General Discussion <>
19:42<superdug>DrJ: know your audience, it's key
19:42<dominikh>on the other side, a 20yo person has more time available than a 90yo person, usually.
19:42<DrJ>I think anyone over 15 remembers dialup
19:42<WoodWork>DrJ: True that!
19:43<DrJ>also superdug, older people seem to be the most impatient to me
19:43-!-Jere1 [] has joined #linode
19:43-!-Jere [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:43<Peng>DrJ: Depends on the service. Some sort of game server? Yeah, 10 ms vs. 50 ms could matter. An ordinary website? Not at all. Some sort of very Ajax- or image-heavy website...maybe?
19:43<superdug>DrJ: ageist
19:43<Peng>Nah, not 15. 20 maybe.
19:43<DrJ>superdug: I say that from experiance working customer service for a few years
19:43<Peng>Well...16 or 17...
19:44<superdug>DrJ: so you work customer service for a few years and suddenly you're the fucking alien race from concoon?
19:44<Peng>Or even current people in some countries!
19:45<superdug> ron howard
19:45-!-ang [] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
19:45-!-ang [] has joined #linode
19:45<HoopyCat>also, where the 50 ms delay occurs makes a difference
19:46<Peng>dns lookups . . . .
19:48-!-Steve^ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:50<HoopyCat>;; Query time: 329 msec
19:50<HoopyCat>;; Query time: 32 msec
19:50<G>oh gosh, just read the backlog, wish I was here when it happened w/ some popcorn
19:51<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: dig @
19:51<Peng>G: Don't forget, there's some other backlog from the past.
19:51<Peng>G: If you missed it.
19:51<SelfishMan>;; Query time: 1098 msec
19:51<Peng>HoopyCat: You run an IRC server?
19:51<HoopyCat>Peng: i can tell you didn't actually try that
19:52<G>Peng: I was there when it happened yesterday
19:52<Peng>1969 ms. Do I win?
19:52<SelfishMan>;; Query time: 221 msec
19:52<linbot>New news from forums: How to identify what caused high load and locked my linode? in General Discussion <> || Nginx FastCGI caching in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
19:52<Peng>HoopyCat: Yeah, I hadn't yet.
19:52<SelfishMan>that is querying
19:53<HoopyCat>c'mon guys, don't overanalyze this. most of the delay is tjfontaine's fault
19:53<G>oh ha, CNAME to OFTC :P
19:53-!-alexgordon [~alexgordo@] has quit [Quit: alexgordon]
19:53<SelfishMan>HoopyCat: nah, it is because of the extra lookups attached to the cname
19:54<Peng>...Which are totally his fault! :P
19:54<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: ;; DAMNS given: 0
19:54-!-DrJ [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
19:54<Peng>Although the first extra lookup is cached.
19:54<Peng>And even Google likes CNAMEs.
19:54<HoopyCat>urmom likes CNAMEs
19:54-!-DrJ [] has joined #linode
19:54<Peng>...Although they have a hella high TTL for it. And they're Google, so it's in every cache ever all the time.
19:54-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:56<HoopyCat>Peng: i started routing my netbook through the cloudtube in an anti-skytube-subterfuge initiative; 'tis weird how resolves differently now
19:56-!-warren [] has joined #linode
19:57<warren>Hi, I'm thinking of joining Linode. The FAQ says I can roll my own distribution instead of use one of those listed. I want to make my own RHEL6 image. What format is acceptable and how does one upload?
19:57<linbot>New news from forums: Looking for freelance sysadmin/guru for a very short project in General Discussion <>
19:57<HoopyCat>which reminds me... indeed, i notice very little difference with the additional 30 ms RTT i get for skytube+cloudtube
19:57<Peng>I'm SOCKSing through my 'node. For some reason only has 1 IP now. My ISP at home has like 4.
19:57<Peng>!f custom distro
19:57<linbot>Peng: To deploy a custom image or distro, or clone one from an existing system, go to
19:57<Peng>Oh damn.
19:57<Peng>!library custom distro
19:58<linbot>Peng: 1. Running a Custom Linux Distro on a Linode VPS ( - 2. Run a Custom Compiled Kernel with PV-GRUB ( - 3. Run Custom Kernels and Distribution Templates on Linode Instances (
19:58<Peng>warren: ^
19:58<warren>Peng, thanks!
19:58<HoopyCat>warren: best bet is to install it in a... oh heck, Peng got it first
19:58<SelfishMan>Peng: is that why my resolvers have been primed with all the porn sites?
19:58<warren>I haven't visited here before, good to see an active community.
19:58<Peng>SelfishMan: It is why your resolvers have been primed with Porn, I know nothing about. O:)
19:59<@jed>SelfishMan: porn is me
19:59<HoopyCat>warren: also note that the "Set up Finnix..." section is out-of-date; there's now a dedicated "Rescue" tab that boots up Finnix for you :-) (and puts stuff on /dev/xvda instead of /dev/xvdb)
19:59<Peng>Everybody should end their domains with "." to force them to be absolute...
19:59<Peng>Though I suppose the extra hundreds of bytes of HTML would cost millions of dollars.
19:59<warren>I'm guessing Finnix is some sort of mini distro, so I can mount my image and chroot?
19:59<Peng>warren: Yeah.
19:59<Peng>warren: It's a mini rescue distro. Pretty nifty.
20:00<warren>Peng, does Finnix have a 32bit or 64bit kernel?
20:00<warren>can't do a 64bit userspace chroot without 64bit kernel
20:00<Peng>So is my old Finnix profile totally unnecessary now?
20:00<HoopyCat>warren: i believe it is 32-bit, but that shouldn't matter; you'd just be doing a raw copy of the disk images
20:00<SelfishMan>not sure why that matters
20:00<HoopyCat>Peng: yeah
20:00<warren>it only matters if you want to mount and chroot into it
20:01<warren>like if you screw up your initscripts, you can boot rescue, mount, chroot and fix it
20:01<Peng>warren: You can deploy one of Linode's available distros on like a 1 GB image and use it instead of Finnix
20:01<HoopyCat>warren: true. *thinks* most of us tend to end up with 32-bit distros for various reasons, but you do have a point.
20:01-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
20:02<warren>32-bit would be better to maximize limited RAM, but 64bit has double general purpose registers, so I don't know what is "faster"
20:02-!-mathew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:03<warren>I currently have a dedicated server at Serverbeach. Serverbeach is offering me a really good offer to stay with them after I threatened to quit for Linode...
20:03<Peng>warren: The extra RAM is usually faster -- disk caches and all. The consensus is that databases are faster on 64-bit, but few people are db-driven.
20:03<warren>I don't know if I'm switching yet.
20:03<warren>Peng, yeah that's my thought too.
20:03<Peng>I mean, if you're just running WordPress or whatever, a bit better db performance doesn'
20:03<Peng>t matter
20:03<Peng>And having a bit more RAM for PHP would probably matter more.
20:04<HoopyCat>on the other hand, if all your other stuff is 64-bit, having binary compatibility can be nice
20:04<warren>all my binaries are 32bit or 64bit
20:04<HoopyCat>warren: i should hope so
20:04<warren>32bit is also smaller operating system on disk
20:04<warren>Cromulent, perfectly?
20:04<Peng>Is there any reason to dump a web server's SSL cert in /etc/ssl?
20:05<HoopyCat>Peng: apparently, convention is moving that way
20:05<SelfishMan>it still comes down to the simple fact that if you don't know why you need 64bit then you don't need it
20:05<HoopyCat>Peng: it's probably a /srvish justification
20:06<HoopyCat>SelfishMan: and even if you think you know why you need 64bit (>2GB system RAM), you probably don't
20:06<dominikh>MongoDB users usually need 64bit, if there db is big enough (around the 4gb)
20:06<SelfishMan>and before the pedants jump in I'm specifically talking about the VPS world
20:06<warren>Linode's management tools appear to be very powerful
20:06<warren>what kind of client is LISH? java?
20:06<HoopyCat>and nod, dominikh hit it
20:06<Peng>ISTM the only benefit of /etc/ssl is that it makes the cert hard to find in all of the clutter and it might get clobbered by an OpenSSL upgrade.
20:06<mwalling>warren: lish is a program that gets run when you ssh into the host
20:06<Peng>Neither of which are benefits.
20:06<HoopyCat>warren: the web thing is... ajaxterm i think. i usually use it over ssh, though, unless it's just there and i need to peek
20:07<mwalling>warren: (alla ForceCommand in sshd_config(5))
20:07<HoopyCat>("is it booting? oh good")
20:07<warren>RHEL6 puts all keys in /etc/pki/*, which seems to be a new LSB standard
20:07<linbot>New news from forums: Xen4.0 in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
20:08<HoopyCat>Peng: i realize your company IS actually named Snake Oil, but perhaps you should choose a different filename
20:08<dominikh>A new Xen would be nice, but ...
20:08<warren>I'm surprised they aren't using kvm... it is nice to be supported by kernel upstream.
20:09<warren>Oh, does your custom image need a xen paravirt kernel?
20:09<Cromulent>aww 116MB of swap usage :(
20:09<@pparadis>warren: you can run most stuff with the host-supplied linode kernels.
20:09<HoopyCat>UML -> Xen was a definite ++ for users and linode-themselves. Xen -> KVM is... well, not sure what it'd get the customers except transition pains
20:09<@pparadis>but you're certainly welcome to run a paravirt kernel yourself with pv-grub
20:10<Peng>warren: AFAIK the official word is that they'll let other people be KVM's early adopters.
20:10<Cromulent>KVM has red hat behind it now who have officially dropped Xen
20:10<Peng>warren: Linode has been around a heck of a lot longer than KVM has. And they only switched to Xen a couple years ago.
20:10<Cromulent>there is a lot going for KVM
20:10<HoopyCat>Peng: a few years ago
20:11<Peng>2008-04 for new servers, but it was in beta ages
20:11<HoopyCat>Cromulent: xen, on the other hand, has pretty much every VPS provider that isn't OpenVZ
20:11<Peng>Cromulent: Yes. KVM is nice. But is it so nice it's worth all the hassle of moving away from Xen right now? Probably not.
20:11<G>We'll prob get KVM before IPv6 though....
20:11<Peng>G: Sob
20:11<Peng>G: Don't say that. :'(
20:12<Cromulent>HoopyCat: most VPS providers don't contribute much code back to the project - on the other hand Red Hat are pretty big code contributors so they make much more of a difference
20:12<G>Peng: I know I know :)
20:12-!-schwullo [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:12<G>HoopyCat: ummmm there are far more Virtuozzo providers out there then Xen+OpenVZ combined I'd say
20:13<Cromulent>Peng: true - I wouldn't bother migrating existing customers but I would consider a test trial
20:13<HoopyCat>Cromulent: not to sound flippant, but "so?" :-) that means a lot from the kernel/software side, true, but there is still a lot of xen out there
20:13-!-Giacomohhh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:13<warren>hmm, if I upgrade my Linode plan later, does their admin stuff make it easy to grow your ext4 partition?
20:13<HoopyCat>G: i include virtuozzo with openvz, because it is hard to spell
20:13<mwalling>not 4
20:13<mwalling>3, yes
20:14<G>HoopyCat: but you are lumping an ugly solution w/ an even uglier solution :P
20:14<warren>it's in the web panel?
20:14-!-schwullo [] has joined #linode
20:14<warren>that's cool
20:14<Cromulent>HoopyCat: the point I was making is that if Red Hat were a big driving force behind Xen development there leaving and joining KVM may well result in the tables turning in KVMs favour - of course that is conjecture but it is definitely something to consider
20:14<HoopyCat>warren: if it is known to the dashboard as ext3 (e.g. not created as a "raw" image), and it is ext3, it is growable/shrinkable through the UI. ext4 and raw, not quite as easy
20:15<warren>HoopyCat, hmm, so If I upload my own custom distro it wont be known as ext3?
20:15-!-schwullo [] has quit []
20:15<HoopyCat>Cromulent: i'm not saying it won't happen... i'm saying that xen is here right now, is mature, and is widely used
20:15<warren>HoopyCat, even if I make it ext3?
20:15-!-schwullo [] has joined #linode
20:15<G>warren: create your disk as ext3 and just dd over it I guess :)
20:15<G>should work
20:15<HoopyCat>warren: the instructions look like they have you create it as a recognized ext3 filesystem
20:16<warren>this is looking like a workable solution
20:16<G>personally I refuse to use ext4 atm
20:16*mwalling points to the seven day money back and says "try it"
20:16<mwalling>i still run ext2 in some places
20:16<HoopyCat>warren: (why not ext4? well, you actually figured it out already: the dom0 kernels are 2.6.18)
20:16<G>once bitten, twice shy
20:16<warren>G, ext4 has been stable for years from my POV
20:16*warren former Red Hat engineer.
20:16<G>warren: oh you are former now?
20:16<G>warren: when did you leave?
20:17<warren>G, had to move back home to help parents, going back to school later.
20:17<G>warren: ahhh how long ago, must have been after I left though
20:17<HoopyCat>having the xen/kvm discussion before the ext4 discussion made the ext4 discussion much faster! :-)
20:17<warren>G, March
20:17<G>warren: and as for ext4, last time I used ext4 (a year ago) got really bad random data corruption
20:18<G>warren: ahhh right, after I left the Hat then
20:18<HoopyCat><--- former outsourced tech support drone for red hat, the LAST time 6.0 was released
20:18<Karrde>ISTM? I seem to... meander?
20:18<warren>ext3 is fine
20:18<G>HoopyCat: you'd prob remember Spot then?
20:18<warren>It will just be a bit of work to install a RHEL6 image with Xen paravirt
20:18<G>HoopyCat: or Mike Napolis?
20:19<pseudonymous>warren: with all respect, that might have something to do with you RH guys patching the living crap out of every single package you ever get a hold of
20:19<warren>pseudonymous, I'd suggest not making accusations about things you don't truly understand.
20:19<G>pseudonymous: wow gosh, you realise every other distro does exactly the same things?
20:20<Peng>Debian SSH keys :D
20:20<HoopyCat>G: the names ring a bell. this was long ago and i didn't work for red hat directly
20:20<warren>Peng, hahaha
20:20<Peng>Always fun to bring that up. :D
20:20<G>HoopyCat: ahhh right, yeah I was working in the Support division
20:21<G>HoopyCat: not outsourced now :)
20:21<HoopyCat>G: outsourced install support for the rochester-based company with a business casual (ties required) dress code :-)
20:21<HoopyCat>G: yeah, we rocked as well as we could but... there were cultural differences
20:22<HoopyCat><--- the morning-shift alpha AXP guy
20:23<mwalling>warren: lol
20:23<pseudonymous>warren: all I understand is I can never compile a thing on an RH distro without it failing somewhere wheras it'll compile on cleaner distributions. No doubt you're 10 times smarter than me, but honestly, things break left right and center as a result. Case in point, back when RH proper spun off to be Fedora and RHEL, the aggressive tampering left fedora without a functioning update manager for some three releases
20:23<G>HoopyCat: haha yeah, did you have access to the ticketing system?
20:23<warren>pseudonymous, that last sentence is true.
20:24<Karrde>whenever I can't compile something, it's because I haven't installed the right -dev(el) packages
20:24-!-Xenc [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:24<Karrde>can't compile Apache w/ LDAP support without the LDAP headers.. whoulda thunk
20:24<G>Karrde: exactly! :)
20:25<pseudonymous>Karrde: While not an engineer, I've succeeded in recompiling GCC/Glibc and a host of other packages to turn my install multilib :) (with all the build-script patching that ensued) - I'm usually ok with compiling
20:25<HoopyCat>comp-ile? what is this word of which you speak?
20:26<Cromulent>I try and keep the number of manual things I have to look after to the bare minimum - nginx is the only thing I compile myself and that is only to reduce its memory consumption a little more by removing excess crap
20:27<HoopyCat>G: hahahaha... no. our IT folks built one in activex, then were saddened that we didn't have IE6 on our linux machines. while they rewrote it in java, i wrote a ticketing system in PHP. that was my last PHP application
20:27-!-synesthete is now known as synesthete|away
20:28*nuclear wonders what morons write an activex ticket system for a company supporting linux
20:28<HoopyCat>G: i also had a python script that sniffed the broadcast messages from the PBX and allowed us to see the queue status. that... was somewhat misunderstood by network security
20:29<G>HoopyCat: haha
20:30<G>HoopyCat: all that sounds somewhat familar
20:30<G>HoopyCat: having to have a heap of greasemonkey scripts because all the javascript was written for IE4/5 and didn't work w/ Firefox and none of the buttons would work
20:31<G>actually it wasn't quite like that
20:31<HoopyCat>nuclear: we... were outsiders
20:32<HoopyCat>when the company blood drive came through, we were the most likely to have someone ask for clarification on the "sexual contact with a male" question
20:32-!-b0tz [] has joined #linode
20:34<HoopyCat>G: new hire training started with "install red hat linux on your PC", so i'm not even sure what version of IE anything was intended for :-)
20:35<G>HoopyCat: actually that sounds like my first day, "Build your computer and install RHEL" :)
20:37<warren>dang, I don't have any working Xen hosts locally anymore
20:37<HoopyCat>G: (turns out that the dhcp client in 6.0 was incompatible with our LAN's dhcp server, too)
20:37<warren>in order to test a guest image before I upload
20:38<warren>you folks have any linode referral codes or something?
20:38<HoopyCat>warren: eh, just send it up. it'll be fine. <abandon class="reckless">
20:38<HoopyCat>warren: how'd you originally hear about linode?
20:39<G>warren: I referred Luke a while back ;)
20:39<warren>HoopyCat, been looking at slicehost and linode for the past year, because my current server at serverbeach is too expensive and I'm not using it enough to warrant the expense.
20:39-!-LPCA [] has joined #linode
20:39<G>warren: maybe get Luke to refer you ;)
20:39-!-synesthete|away is now known as synesthete
20:39<linbot>Why would you steal money from Linode when you didn't refer this person? ;_; (looking for a referral code? see !referral)
20:39-!-LPCA [] has quit []
20:39<linbot>Why would you steal money from Linode when you didn't refer this person? ;_; (looking for a referral code? see !referral)
20:39<linbot>Looking for a referral code? Use this one for free activation: dbe98bfe8cad58e02d9ea22fc98f446240edc909
20:39<mwalling>Peng: !!
20:40<Peng>I think that's a new code.
20:40<HoopyCat>GLaDOSDan is not necessarily a party to the Referral Whore Treaty of 2008
20:40<Peng>No, my mistake.
20:40<warren>oh nice, discounts for annual payment
20:40<GLaDOSDan>bigger discounts for bi-anally
20:40<GLaDOSDan>er, annually
20:40<Peng>That's an awesome word.
20:41<Peng>I don't know what it means, but I'm sure it's awesome.
20:41<nuclear> glad I didn't misread that at first
20:41-!-Xenc [] has joined #linode
20:41<HoopyCat>GLaDOSDan: you know, back to the office blood drive thing...
20:41<warren>I don't even know how that could possibly work.
20:41-!-ariel [] has joined #linode
20:42<G>warren: how what could work?
20:42<warren>the joke above nevermind
20:42<G>warren: you know, the other trick I found, and I guess it won't work w/ RHEL, unless you have access to a yum repo of the bits...
20:43<warren>G, I can make a temporary yum repo
20:43-!-hpj [] has joined #linode
20:43<G>warren: is, install CentOS or Fedora etc in a small partition, and use the yum --someoptiontoinstalltoachroot like mock does and use the Linode provided kernels
20:43<G>warren: yum --installroot
20:43<warren>g, oh, there's a better way, you can use pvgrub to boot anaconda
20:44<G>warren: oh yeah, I hadn't thought of that
20:44<warren>g: yeah, less crappy method of doing installs over a netowrk
20:44<G>last time I went to do it was before pvgrub was around
20:45<G>iirc I was installing CentOS5 64bit before the 64bit images were created
20:45<warren>looks like centos6 isn't available yet
20:45<G>so I used the yum that Ubuntu 64bit provided to --installroot into a blank partition
20:46<G>now thats going back a couple of years iirc
20:47<warren>g, RHEL6 has a new rpm data format, I doubt Ubuntu can read it.
20:48<pseudonymous>warren: they changed RPM from the bottom up ?
20:48<warren>pseudonymous, no, better compression algorithm and more secure hash
20:48<pseudonymous>oh, make sense
20:48<G>warren: this was back in Centos5, but non the less, the newer versions of Ubuntu have RPM x.7 w/ the SHA256
20:48<warren>pseudonymous, plus deltarpm for super quick updates
20:49<warren>G, Oh I see.
20:49<G>warren: as I said, this was a couple of years back before Linode had PV-Grub
20:49<warren> I am not entirely sure how to use pvgrub
20:49<warren>and not sure how to install the correct stuff in the RHEL6 kernel initrd so it can boot as a paravirt guest
20:49<G>warren: you've got to have a /boot folder etc on your xvda
20:51-!-hpj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:55<Peng>warren: Why do you want to use the RHEL kernel at all?
20:55-!-synesthete is now known as synesthete|away
20:55<warren>Peng, because it should work just fine, and I trust them to update the kernel for security more than anyone else.
20:55<Peng>warren: It's the same with Linode. Except it's harder to find out about kernel updates.
20:56<Peng>warren: Linode puts more effort into making the kernel work on Linode than Red Hat does.
20:56<Peng>warren: I mean, both *should* work, of course, but...
20:56<Peng>Anyway, totally up to you. :)
20:56<warren>Peng, also the userspace of RHEL6 is so new, I rather avoid the possibility of userspace bugs, that userspace was tested with the RHEL kernel.
20:56<warren>Peng, I understand the concern.
20:57<Peng>Heh, the usual issue is the userspace being too *old* for the kernel, especially back before pv-ops when everybody was stuck on 2.6.18.
20:58<HoopyCat>i figure that if you're running RHEL, you're gonna wanna run the RHEL kernel
20:58<warren>my only challenge is to install an image with the right stuff in the initrd
20:58<warren>it's been years since I've used xen
20:59<warren>I think I can upload a small image containing anaconda as a custom image, boot that, and use the real installer
21:00<HoopyCat>warren: :-)
21:00<warren>HoopyCat, nice
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21:50<linbot>New news from forums: unable to conenct port 25 in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
21:53-!-joshdotsmith [] has joined #linode
21:57<HoopyCat>those aren't compression formats :-/
21:58<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
21:58<BBHoss>i always got a kick out of gun/bunzip
21:58<mwalling>gun zip!
21:58<mwalling>unzip your guns!
21:58<Peng>HoopyCat: urmom is a compress...hmm...
21:59<@irgeek>Does that make ji
21:59<Karrde>I said "bunzip2" at dinner and got a strange look from my non-nerd sister
21:59<HoopyCat>i couldn't remember a format by that name, so i googled for "jed compression"... the results were dissatisfying
21:59<@irgeek>him a compresson
22:00-!-ktabic [] has quit [Quit: I'm a professionally trainined computer scientist. That is to say, I am poorly educated]
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22:02<G>hmmm I wonder when he'll be back for another dose of DCMA hate
22:03-!-mathew [] has joined #linode
22:04<BBHoss>anyone know a text browser that supports cookies+JS?
22:04<techhelper1>irgeek: do you know if Linode has video tutorials for anything
22:04-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has joined #linode
22:04<BBHoss>techhelper1: have you ever SEEN a linux sysadmin?
22:04<Karrde>BBHoss: elinks, I beleive? I went down that path once, got a little ways, then gave up and SSH forwarded and used a real browser
22:04<dominikh>BBHoss: elinks
22:04<@irgeek>The library is all articles so far.
22:04<BBHoss>ok, i'll try elinks
22:04<techhelper1>BBHoss: i am a sysadmin, i was going to offer to do vid tutorials
22:04<amitz>G: is it the same guy who threaten suicide in a blog?
22:05<BBHoss>trying to DL fucking adobe flash media server
22:05<techhelper1>if Linode staff approves of it
22:05<BBHoss>techhelper1: maybe open a support ticket? i doubt they would mind
22:05<techhelper1>well irgeek is here, he can make a decision
22:07<HoopyCat>techhelper1: there's a Contribute page on the library; i can't recall the e-mail address, but that'd probably be the best place to start
22:07<Peng>amitz: Yes.
22:09<amitz>Peng: ah... do you have a good guess what pic was he talking about?
22:10<amitz>I guess the correct form is "he was" instead of "was he".
22:10<BBHoss>techhelper1: why limit it to linode though?
22:10<Karrde>tinyurl's because the GIS URL is ten leagues long
22:10<techhelper1>contribute to this community
22:11<techhelper1>and how the software and system works
22:11<HoopyCat>amitz: i could only recover the left third of the image, but
22:11<Karrde>that's my guess anyway.. resolves to a theplanet IP
22:11<Karrde>and 'zach' is the poster's name
22:11<techhelper1>mwalling: i know.
22:11<mwalling>techhelper1: linked right on the front of
22:12<amitz>HoopyCat: haha
22:12<amitz>Karrde: ah, I see the complication then.
22:12<G>amitz: he's the one that was threatening etc not sure about the blog thing
22:13<mwalling>da do de do
22:13<mwalling>SelfishMan: i love you
22:14<HoopyCat>amitz: ok, more of the image is coming in...
22:15<linbot>mmm burt reynolds
22:15<mwalling>note: for the good of the children, dont click on the next image HoopyCat links
22:15<@pparadis>oh man
22:15<@pparadis>"i only take my hat off for two things"
22:16<@pparadis>oh man again
22:16<@pparadis>i fucked up that quote
22:16<@pparadis>Bandit: I take my hat off for one thing, one thing only.
22:16<amitz>HoopyCat: somehow he looks so... molesting....
22:17<HoopyCat>amitz: GOT IT!
22:17<HoopyCat>amitz: no, sorry, that was a directv ad. nevermind
22:18<nuclear>i'm too confused to scroll up and figure this out
22:18<@pparadis>that poor poor bear
22:19<HoopyCat>pparadis: elbow right on the honker
22:21<@pparadis>that might actually make a good backdrop for a razor commercial: "don't be this guy"
22:21<amitz>yes, definitely molesting.
22:22<HoopyCat>Everything should be hosted on LINODE. well, maybe not everything.
22:22<amitz>pparadis: are you crazy? imagine that pic but without any hair whatsoever. the horror oh the horro!
22:22<HoopyCat>HTTP/1.1 302 Found
22:23<nuclear>anything but aspieweb, apparently
22:23<Karrde>HTTP/1.1 401 Unauthorized
22:23<amitz>for 'the before' and 'the after' comparison.
22:25<HoopyCat>HTTP/1.1 410 Gone
22:25<BBHoss>yum, firefox over forwarded X11
22:31<BBHoss>is there any way to remove a package and its deps on centos 5 with yum?
22:33<@pparadis>yum remove <-- ?
22:33<karlyn>hi is there any posibilities in virtualmin to register new domain without touching the dns panel in linode?
22:33<BBHoss>pparadis: when i do that it only shows its removing the firefox package
22:33<BBHoss>not all of the other ones it installed
22:35<BBHoss>pparadis: care to explain why yum remove doesnt do what it's supposed to? am i missing something
22:35<@pparadis>karlyn: if you're talking about adding an entry to the linode DNS for a new domain, you may wish to investigate the linode API -->
22:35<@pparadis>BBHoss: it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. it's removing the package you ask it to remove.
22:36<BBHoss>pparadis: but i said i wanted to remove the deps too, and you said use yum remove
22:36<Karrde>it's not aptitude if that's what you're expecting
22:36<@pparadis>on debian or ubuntu, if i "apt-get remove" a package, it does the same thing.
22:36<BBHoss>pparadis: ok, i want apt-get autoremove
22:36<@pparadis>BBHoss: did you google for this?
22:37<BBHoss>pparadis: fuck you, either you know or you dont
22:37-!-BBHoss was kicked from #linode by pparadis [BBHoss]
22:37-!-BBHoss [] has joined #linode
22:37<@pparadis>care to rephrase that?
22:37<@pparadis>rephrase, rather
22:37<BBHoss>no, i will just ignore you from now on
22:37<mwalling>BBHoss: remember, he has an unfair advantage
22:38<mwalling>see, watch
22:38<mwalling>pparadis: go fuck yourself
22:38<@pparadis>mwalling: okay
22:38<BBHoss>of course i have googled this, i didn't find anything, so i asked, hopefully someone more knowledgable than myself would help me
22:38<BBHoss>guess not
22:39-!-yayitswei [] has quit [Quit: yayitswei]
22:39<@pparadis>from the fourth google results link: "If you install the yum-utils package, there is a utility called package-cleanup"
22:39<@pparadis>which can help you to find leaf node packages and remove them.
22:39<mwalling>BBHoss: if only you were a couple hours earlier... two ex redhat types were here :)
22:41<dominikh>insulting staff, that's always such a GREAT idea :>
22:41<mwalling>oh, here comes the smart questions
22:41<BBHoss>hmm, opening with lmgtfy, real nice
22:42<BBHoss>then refusing to answer my question, but responding did you google that?
22:42<@pparadis>it's on the *first* page of results, and i simply asked you if you had reviewed those results. you told me to go fuck myself.
22:42<Karrde>he did answer your question
22:42<BBHoss>pparadis: its NOT on my first page of results
22:42<@pparadis>you obviously didn't use that query
22:42<BBHoss>have you never noticed how peoples results are vastly different
22:42<@pparadis>in this case, no. i also tried it in safari to make sure, and got nearly identical results
22:43<@pparadis>anyhow, moving right along.
22:43<BBHoss>pparadis: it personalizes your results, since i am logged in, mine will be different, the only way you could have tested that is to login as me
22:43<Karrde><3 for all a huge time
22:44-!-sinusss [~sinusss@] has joined #linode
22:44<@pparadis>BBHoss: whether or not you got the same result set, saying "fuck you" to anyone isn't going to be tolerated. a simple "i don't see it" would have yielded the next bit i gave you afterward.
22:44<dominikh><3 my ass. rsync is really slow here and I have no idea why :P
22:44<BBHoss>pparadis: you're right, sorry
22:45<G>mwalling: I'm still here :)
22:45-!-Jere1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:45<BBHoss>i forgot to take my SNRI today, so i'm alittle edgy
22:45<G>pparadis: remember, Google sometimes provides different results based on location, /me has noticed taht the hardway
22:45<dcraig>do you ever find that you like being edgy?
22:46<BBHoss>no, i hate it
22:46<@pparadis>G: sure, i know it does happen on occassion. however, the bit above applies.
22:46<dominikh>google even provides different results based on server (they're not fully in sync), but that only affects recent PR changes
22:46<G>BBHoss: from the LMGTYF results that pparadis suggested, how about:
22:46<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: what's my delay?
22:46<BBHoss>G: that package doesnt exist for me
22:46<tjfontaine>G: what are you CNAME'ing to oftc?
22:47<dcraig>location-based results for linux searches?
22:47<G>tjfontaine: thats what HoopyCat has done
22:47<G>tjfontaine: not me
22:47<@pparadis>BBHoss: can you install the "yum-utils" package?
22:47<BBHoss>dcraig: i don't think it's location-based, but personalized
22:47<BBHoss>pparadis: yeah, it's already installed
22:47-!-sinusss [~sinusss@] has quit []
22:47<@pparadis>BBHoss: roger that
22:47<dcraig>the more I click on a link, the higher it appears in the search results!
22:47<dcraig>google is so in my head
22:48<dominikh>that's definitely a feature for people like the ones who google for "facebook login" and then don't get that they landed on a random blog
22:48<G>BBHoss: what exactly are you running?
22:49<amitz>BBHoss: google result is location based too.
22:49<@pparadis>hahaha from the "package-cleanup" man page: "There of course aren't any bugs, but if you find any, they should be sent to the mailing list: or filed in bugzilla."
22:49<@pparadis>nice :)
22:49<G>BBHoss: right thats why you can't find the Yum Plugin...
22:49<amitz>BBHoss: when you're directed to the local google.
22:49<BBHoss>amitz: AL's google must suck
22:50-!-sinus_ [~Subsea_In@] has joined #linode
22:50<G>hmmm doesn't look to be any yum plugins at all in EPEL
22:51<G>and I can't recall if package-cleanup is in the RHEL/CentOS yum-utils or not
22:51*pparadis just goes ahead and deploys centos
22:51<BBHoss>G: it is, but I can't get it to return anything, this is what I just tried: package-cleanup --leaves --leaf-regex="^(firefox)"
22:51<G>ahhh yeah it is/does
22:52<G>try just package-cleanup --leaves
22:52<G>and maybe whatever the dry run option is
22:52<BBHoss>G still just says Setting up yum
22:52<BBHoss>and dies
22:52<G>pparadis: if I buy another node for a day now, it'll charge me next month in advance too won't it?
22:53<linbot>New news from forums: postfix mail configuration in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
22:53<@pparadis>G: correct
22:53<G>well there goes that idea :)
22:53<dcraig>but when you delete it tomorrow, it'll uncharge you, right?
22:53<BBHoss>heh uncharge
22:53-!-Boohemian [] has quit [Quit: ciao]
22:54<G>dcraig: sure but as I'm on biannual/annual billing for my nodes there will be $20 sitting on my account waiting to be used
22:54<@pparadis>well, it'll issue prorated service credit
22:54-!-derekyang [] has quit [Quit: derekyang]
22:54<dcraig>oh I see
22:54*pparadis waits for the epic yum update to run
22:54<BBHoss>package-cleanup --leaves shows nothing
22:54<G>BBHoss: looks like pparadis is going to have a go for you
22:55<@pparadis>brb smoke while this updates
22:55<dcraig>where's the annual billing button in the manager?
22:55<G>dcraig: it'd also mean I'd have to go hunt down my CC as I have to replace my details in Linode Manager :)
22:55<G>dcraig: by request (ticket)
22:55<G>dcraig: you normally get the fastest response on those ones
22:56-!-Boohemian [] has joined #linode
22:56<G>I think they see it come in and immediately think "MOAR MONEY"
22:56<dcraig>wonder if it goes straight to the pocket of the person responding to the ticket!
22:56<G>doubt it
22:57-!-b0tz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:57<G>actually, maybe thats how they get paid, Caker gets commission from all web sales, the rest have to make their money by converting people to annual/bi-annual ;)
22:57-!-joshdotsmith [] has quit [Quit: joshdotsmith]
22:57<BBHoss>package-cleanup seems to not work at all
22:58<linbot>New news from forums: Linode Manager Login: auto-focus in Username form in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
22:59<G>actually I have spare diskspace on my other node
22:59<G>so I'll play on that :)
22:59-!-G_pateke [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:00<dominikh>spare diskspace? according to forum threads, that's not possible ;)
23:01<G>I had an old Profile image plus my current image (3720MB), so deleting the old image I get get about 13GB free :)
23:02<G>BBHoss: okay, installing firefox now :)
23:04-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
23:05<Cromulent>hmm does anyone know of any alternatives to Chef? The open source infrastructure management system?
23:05<BBHoss>Cromulent: chef is supposed to be pretty awesome
23:06<G>Cromulent: puppet?
23:06<BBHoss>yeah, puppet is one, kinda like stackscripts too
23:06<Cromulent>BBHoss: yeah I don't have anything against it - I just want to have more than one choice so I can get a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of each system. You can't do that if all you know about is one thing :)
23:07<Cromulent>ah cool thanks :)
23:07<G>BBHoss: what do you get w/ package-clean --leaves --all?
23:07<BBHoss>a whole bunch of stuff i dont need to remove :)
23:08<BBHoss>i think i only see one thing on there
23:08<BBHoss>that ff installed, which is xulrunner
23:10<BBHoss>Cromulent: check out Vagrant too, it's pretty cool, not really like puppet/chef but for development
23:10<Cromulent>BBHoss: cool will do
23:12<G>BBHoss: hmmm yeah, it's nowhere near verbose enough...
23:14<G>BBHoss: hmmm the functionality just got added to yum to do it by default
23:14<BBHoss>G: which centos doesnt have yet?
23:14<G>BBHoss: bingo
23:15<G>well when I say default, I mean that it's a configuration option and once enabled it'll do it by default
23:17<BBHoss>G: So i can configure it to do it?
23:18<G>nono, it's too new for CentOS, it'd likely require back porting etc
23:19<BBHoss>centos still has ruby 1.8.5
23:19<BBHoss>that was like 2005
23:20<BBHoss>does anyone know by chance if i leave off -p for protocol in iptables, it does the line for all protocols?
23:21<nick125>BBHoss: you're off. Ruby 1.8.5 was 2006 :p
23:21<BBHoss>nick125: ahh, still old though :)
23:22-!-b0tz [] has joined #linode
23:22*nick125 is installing Ruby 1.6.8 on CentOS 3 for some reason :p
23:23<Karrde>eww CentOS 3
23:23<Karrde>how do CentOS 3 updates work now that RHEL3 is out of support?
23:23<nick125>Karrde: I would've installed RH9, but I couldn't find any ISOs online.
23:23<nick125>Karrde: I don't think they work.
23:24<Karrde>j/w if CentOS stopped supporting 3 at the same time
23:25<nick125>Since it's a direct rebuild on RHEL3, I assume they stop supporting it the same time that RHEL3 is no longer supported.
23:28<BBHoss>anyone have a good recommendation on where to get nginx init scripts for centos?
23:29-!-ariel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:29<Karrde>it's in EPEL, so I'd grab the (src) rpm and steal from there
23:30<BBHoss>linode library, fuck yeah
23:32<G>what Linode Library says compile nginx from source for Centos?
23:32<BBHoss>G: I didn't, passenger did
23:32<BBHoss>for a Rails app
23:33*G shudders
23:34<BBHoss>you have to build it from source for the passenger plugin
23:35<dominikh>unicorn <3
23:35<BBHoss>damn i wish centos had upstart
23:36<BBHoss>RHEL6 does :(
23:36<BBHoss>it is SUCH a better system than writing init scripts, plus, it monitors your services, so there is no need for god/bluepill/monit really
23:37<BBHoss>dominikh: yeah i am using unicorn now, passenger is good for lazy people though
23:37<dominikh>not true. or can upstart monitor for ram usage etc? ;)
23:37<dominikh>BBHoss: heh. I *am* lazy and rather use unicorn ;) passenger seems the same amount of work to you, with all that compiling :)
23:38<BBHoss>dominikh: well, i appended "really" :)
23:38<BBHoss>the compiling was done automagically
23:38<BBHoss>the scripts they include are really quite nice
23:39<dominikh>I'd still like to see a "Passenger vs. Unicorn" benchmark/discussion by some big websites who have evaluated both. all I can find is sites that favour one or another
23:39<Cromulent>compiling most software is just three commands - hardly hard
23:40<BBHoss>Cromulent: hell not even that with passenger
23:40<Cromulent>on the subject of ruby I'd do anything to find a way to reduce Rubys memory usage - its killing my VPS
23:41<BBHoss>Cromulent: are you sure you're looking at Private/Dirty
23:41<BBHoss>### Total private dirty RSS: 62.02 MB with passenger on a fairly large app
23:42<Cromulent>all I know is that top is indicating the Ruby process using 13.6% of available memory
23:43<dominikh>well, that includes shared memory
23:43<Fieldy>go by reserved (RSS)
23:44<BBHoss>Cromulent: look in /proc/PIDNUMBER/status at VmRSS
23:46<BBHoss>linux memory stats are a funny thing
23:46<BBHoss>not as crazy as the "system load" number
23:46<BBHoss>or load avg i mean
23:47-!-jazzybee [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:48<Cromulent>yeah 70MB
23:49<BBHoss>and thats a lot to you?
23:49<Cromulent>it is on a 512MB VPS
23:49<Cromulent>which is already swapping
23:49<BBHoss>how many processes are you running
23:49<Karrde>all of them!
23:50<Cromulent>the ones that matter memory wise are clamd, ruby and amavis new
23:51<Cromulent>all the rest pale into insignificance next to those three
23:51<BBHoss>i mean unicorn/mongrel/thin processes?
23:51<Cromulent>ah 1
23:51<BBHoss>and this is a rails app?
23:51<Karrde>clamd makes me pout at its memory usage
23:52<Cromulent>yep - redmine to be precise
23:52<dominikh>Cromulent: did you write the Rails app?
23:52<dominikh>okay, nvm
23:53<amitz>hmm deep question. can i set rsync to sync up to n directory depth, oncluding the nth directory but not children of nth directories?
23:53<dominikh>is it steadily at 70MB or slowly rising? :)
23:53<BBHoss>Cromulent: yeah redmine is a pretty big app
23:53<Cromulent>steady - it just seems excessive to me
23:53<BBHoss>70 meg is probably about right
23:53<dominikh>hm, I didn't know redmine is that heavy, tbh
23:53<BBHoss>do you know if it works on 1.9?
23:54<BBHoss>might be better there
23:54<amitz>nth directory depth.
23:54<Cromulent>BBHoss: I seem to recall it specially needs 1.8.7 and rails 2.3.5
23:54<dominikh>Cromulent: you are right.
23:54<dominikh>(and Rack 1.0.1)
23:54<BBHoss>that blows, everyone should be 1.9
23:54<Cromulent>specifically even
23:55<dominikh>Cromulent: tried using REE? I heard it's "cool"
23:55<dominikh>(ruby enterprise edition)
23:55<BBHoss>yeah i went from 150MB memory down to like 90 on one app
23:55<dominikh>"Allows your Ruby on Rails applications to use 33% less memory on average, when used in combination with Phusion Passenger."[citation needed]
23:55<Cromulent>nope - I'd be happy to ditch ruby entirely to be honest I'm a C / Python / Erlang guy
23:56<dominikh>Python? use trac :P
23:56<BBHoss>Cromulent: rarp you then
23:56<Cromulent>but redmine was the best bug tracker / wiki / forum solution I could find\
23:56<dominikh>I think it sucks just as bad as trac does \o/
23:57<Karrde>Um, not to criticize science or anything, but wouldn't it be easier just to call it "the pink one"?
23:57<BBHoss>trac is so mainstream /hipster sarcasm
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23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.59289405, 0.47134784) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17331 of 22053 (π ≈ 3.143517888722623 - 0.001925235132830)
---Logclosed Sun Nov 28 00:00:31 2010