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#linode IRC Logs for 2010-12-05

---Logopened Sun Dec 05 00:00:16 2010
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00:00<pwnguin>is there no way to restore a deleted folder from bzr?
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00:05*pparadis goes afirc for awhile to get some code written, but will be back later to check highlights.
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00:08<bob2>pwnguin: bzr revert -r n somedir
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00:09<megatron27>just noticed that /etc is a bzr repository in Ubuntu
00:10<bob2>the magic of etckeper
00:12<pwnguin>huh. bzr log listed only one version so i thought it was nuked
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00:13<pwnguin>maybe it changed. it used to list all versions
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00:30<pwnguin>man. gallery is just full of fail this upgrade =/
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00:31*Hoggs pokes caker
00:32<blognewb>PayPal suspends wikileaks donation account
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01:30<MTecknology>woah.. I just got a HUGE increase in incoming traffic and I/O
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01:31<MTecknology>IO Rate Max: 11197.64
01:31<MTecknology>Incoming Max: 316.33 kb/s
01:32<MTecknology>IO Rate Average: 310.75; Incoming Average: 5.76 kb/s <-- for perspective
01:32<G>MTecknology: you shouldn't have decided to host a mirror of Wikileaks
01:35<MTecknology>it's odd that it spiked so dang high though..
01:35<linbot>New news from forums: DRDB error in Linux Networking <>
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01:48<ubuntuisloved>I'm running into a problem with booting my linode after doing a upgrade from 8.04 to 10.04
01:49<ubuntuisloved>nm just found a post on
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02:14<Peng>!dns6 ns
02:14<linbot>Peng: The response did not contain an answer to the question.
02:14<Peng>Ohnoes. :D
02:14<Peng>!dns6 ns
02:15<Peng>Right. There we go. Nice to see rDNS is on all 5 servers now too, even the legacy PA ranges.
02:15<Peng>provider assigned. I think.
02:15<dcraig>oh ok
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03:10<Boohemian>hi, i want to make a line of text that opens a paragraph of text (right below it) and if a user then clicks <close> the text collapses to just that link - how do i do that?
03:10<Peng>Assuming you're talking about HTML.
03:11<Boohemian>yeah, i thought css woulddo it?
03:11<Boohemian>i just don't know how :/
03:11<Peng>It should be fairly trivial to implement in any decent JS library. onclick, hide/unhide element, rewrite the link (or hide/unhide).
03:11<Peng>Ehh... Maybe. I'm a bit sleepy.
03:13<Boohemian>me too
03:13<Boohemian>i'm taking valium soon
03:13<Boohemian>20mg should put me out until tomorrow night
03:13<bob2>you take sedatives when you are tired?
03:14<Boohemian>bob2: i can't sleep
03:14<Boohemian>i can't fall asleep
03:15<Boohemian>i may have to take valium
03:15<Boohemian>i've slept 15 hours since i woke up on sunday morning
03:15<Boohemian>erm, i mean thorazine
03:15<Boohemian>i tried 15mg of valium last night, only slept 6 hours
03:15<Boohemian>so maybe time to use something stronger
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03:58<linbot>New news from forums: multiviews problem in Linux Networking <>
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04:07<MJCS>how are ssd raids these days?
04:07<chesty>Sad State of Delay
04:10<MJCS>faster than 15k rpm SAS?
04:11<MJCS>4 drive R5
04:14<MJCS>i need to replace my OS drive soon
04:16<Miranas>For random IOPS SSDs win over platters
04:17<G>personally i wouldn't use SSD on main system drives, but one of the best uses of them I've heard was for Read Only Oracle nodes
04:17<G>they didn't care about speed of writes, but fast access/reads etc were really important
04:19-!-k[t [~]r@2001:0:53aa:64c:4ed:2276:b355:d5f1] has joined #linode
04:20<amitz>what i've been waiting for is write-only drive. none of that /dev/null shit. but truly hardware based one.
04:21<KHobbits>There are some nice SSD's out there
04:21<KHobbits>"Corsair 60GB Force SSD 2.5" SATA-II Read = 285MB/s, Write = 275MB/s"
04:22<KHobbits>£95 | $136
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04:24<KHobbits>(thats obviously hitting the sata2 cap)
04:27<Keith>Array: I was just noticing something. in that Linode article that discusses copying a disk image over ssh, that first dd command uses | cat as part of that operation. Wonder why?
04:30<G>KHobbits: come on SATA3 :)
04:30<KHobbits>sadly, my first experience sith sata3 was a pain.
04:31<KHobbits>my motherboard supports it, but if i leave it enabled 2 of my drives dont work.
04:31<KHobbits>that means i wont be able to use a sata3 disk on a sata3 interface unless i replace those 2 drives.
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04:32<G>sounds like SATA1->SATA2 :)
04:32<G>KHobbits: except iirc my issue was putting a SATA2 drive into a machine w/ SATA1
04:32<KHobbits>by this point, i expected drives and motherboards to be able to negotiate the proper speeds first.
04:33<Keith>Maybe someone knows if that one Linode library article that uses dd as a backup tool had an error somewhere? The backup operation used: ssh root@NodeIP then: dd if=/dev/devicename | cat | /path/to/image.img
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04:33<Keith>I'm not sure why the use of cat was in that operation, but okay..
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04:33<KHobbits>i can only guess that for some reason the disks in question remote something like 'yup give me your fastest sync speed' and the motherboard trys sata3, and the disk gives up :P
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04:50<G>KHobbits: pretty true actually
04:51<KHobbits>It is a bit of a shame though.
04:51<G>KHobbits: I've seriously wonder about some ofthe happenings in the disk drive world
04:51<G>KHobbits: they got it right w/ networking etc
04:51<KHobbits>The disks in question are 1tb disks, so i'm not ready to replace them quite yet :P
04:51<G>like how ingenius making it 4 twisted pairs
04:51<G>when all they needed to start was 2 pairs
04:52<KHobbits>(i think fairly early on the other pairs were used for other things like voice and power)
04:53<G>actually, disk drives go into the same basket as Internet Protocol
04:53<G>no forsight, and reluctance by the industry to fix old ways :P
04:53*KHobbits was going to bring up BGP
04:53<KHobbits>but your right, thats probably a better example :P
04:54<G>if the industry cared, we'd all be using EFI/GPT, and IPv6 by now
04:54<G>none of this Western Digital Advanced Format harddrive bull
04:55<purrdeta>The Old Ways are always best :P
04:55<KHobbits>hmm, i didnt even know Cat7 cable existed :/
04:55<G>purrdeta: if that was the case, why aren't we still on 640k of RAM?
04:56<purrdeta>Because they had no control. I was joking anyway ;)
04:56<purrdeta>I hate most old ways
04:57<G>but yeah, EFI etc should have entered the environment ages ago
04:58<G>like heck, until recently Red Hat's latest "Enterprise Linux" release couldn't boot from hardware RAID arrays etc greater than 2TB
04:58<G>and the only reason it can now is RHEL6 came out :)
04:58<bob2>even with a /boot?
04:59<G>bob2: I said boot from...
04:59<G>bob2: a /boot partition was the way around it
04:59<purrdeta>I wish I understood why everyone is sooooo reluctant to move on
04:59<bob2>hey, I started using things when lilo couldn't boot past like 2gb
04:59<bob2>so I'm used to /boot ;)
05:00<G>bob2: problem is, people get 3 harddrives, throw it into a single RAID5 and then everything in one 'disk'
05:02<KHobbits>The problem people are reluctant to move on is, mostly because people in business dont have time to revise everything they know every year, or afford to buy new equipment every year....
05:02<KHobbits>I also bet that ipv4 equipment is probably still cheaper than ipv6... and as long as someone somewhere is providing a bridge...
05:03<G>KHobbits: most commercial routers etc support IPv6 now anyone, especially for a while now
05:04<KHobbits>Thats very true
05:04<G>KHobbits: also, assuming a 3 year replacement cycle for hardware, and a 7 year cycle for software platforms (forgetting network gear) then you are looking back at 2002/2003, even Windows had IPv6 support back then
05:05<purrdeta>They are all just excuses... "too expensive" or "too much trouble"
05:05<KHobbits>IPv4 hardware was and is still cheaper.
05:06<KHobbits>the only difference is, there is no NEW ipv4 hardware, so if people were 'forced' to upgrade they got that upgrade for free :P
05:06*KHobbits wonders how many businesses are running ipv6 internally.
05:07<bob2>effectively all consumer adsl routers are ipv4-only
05:07<purrdeta>bob2: incorrect
05:07<bob2>afaik the only exception is nerd firmware or a couple of netgears
05:07<purrdeta>meh I dunno. I don't fool with that anymore.
05:07<purrdeta>I don't see IPv6 actually happening anytime soon
05:08<purrdeta>And everyone is gonna be all :'( when we run out of IPv4 addresses... and then nothing will change.
05:08<KHobbits>i'm actually curious how things are going to work out
05:09<purrdeta>me too!
05:09<Peng>Yes, things will change. Unless the Internet suddenly stops growing, there will be awful amounts of NAT, or IPv6.
05:09<bob2>well, 'running out' is a poorly defined situation
05:09<purrdeta> says that we will run out in 88 days
05:09<purrdeta>Peng: NAT.
05:09<bob2>iana runs out, then the rirs run out, then isps start being tightarsier
05:10<KHobbits>purrdeta, i'm expecting within the month :P
05:10<KHobbits>there were 5 blocks bought last month, leaving 7.
05:10<purrdeta>haha wow.
05:10<bob2>and 5 are to be autoallocated
05:10<bob2>so there's only 2 up for grabs
05:10<G>KHobbits: IANA will shutdown over xmas
05:10<bob2>so 88 days is probably optimistic
05:11<G>the other 2 will prob be via raffle
05:11<KHobbits>and they are usually allocated in 2's....
05:11<KHobbits>that said, most RIR's were suggesting they had a years supply of smaller ranges left.
05:11<purrdeta> < this is a strange... clock thing.
05:12<G>purrdeta: it's neat
05:12<purrdeta>very lol.
05:12<KHobbits>purrdeta, what do you think will happen to businesses when the last range gets assigned?
05:12<KHobbits>they will talk to the providers and try and buy whatever they can :P
05:13<purrdeta>haha yeah. Oh lord what a clusterfuck this will be.
05:13<KHobbits>businesses currently dont look too far ahead when it comes to number of ips
05:13<bob2>apnic at least has a battle plan for when they get their last iana allocation
05:13<bob2>all lirs get one last block
05:13<bob2>then that's it
05:13<KHobbits>for pretty much all businesses, they have been able to get ranges whenever they wanted
05:13<KHobbits>so they dont keep much in the way of float stock :P
05:13<purrdeta>You know... I was thinking about like universities and how they don't use NAT at all...
05:13<G>bob2: where is APNIC's battle plan?
05:13<purrdeta>at least none of the ones I have been to :P
05:14<purrdeta>so each machine has a public IP addr
05:14<KHobbits>purrdeta, thats because they got class b's given before there was any considerations about how long they would last
05:14<purrdeta>yeah I know
05:15<purrdeta>and it makes me lol
05:15<KHobbits>but your right, most of them could probably sell off their ranges.
05:15<KHobbits>and it might come to that.
05:15<purrdeta>I work at TCU and I just feel like they could make a killing lol
05:16<bob2>i lie, it is when they have one /8 left not when they get allocated their last /8
05:17<KHobbits>but still, most arent keeping more than a single spare
05:17<amitz>linode will stop growing!
05:17*KHobbits hugs his 3 ip
05:17<amitz>some ops will be laid off!
05:17<purrdeta>KHobbits: YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! :P
05:18<purrdeta>Also, another hindrance in IPv6 is how everyone seems brainwashed by IPv4.
05:18<amitz>yes, the 2 extra ip will stop ericoc from having to eat sand.
05:19<purrdeta>just use :dead:beef as many times as you can :P
05:20<KHobbits>i think someone on my server uses something like: 2001:470:c0ad:5:1333:3333:3337:beef
05:21<KHobbits>for irc
05:21<purrdeta>how cute.
05:21<KHobbits>2001:470:c0ad::/48 = mine
05:22<KHobbits>btw, anyone who hasnt had proper fudge from the fudge kitchens is missing out :D
05:22*KHobbits is in love
05:22<purrdeta>fudge kitchens?! Do they use ipv6 though? :P
05:23<KHobbits>i dont think so :(
05:23<KHobbits>althought hey might have just switched, the website seems to be not responding XD
05:23*KHobbits is eating after eight mint flavour fudge
05:24<KHobbits>the fudge there is made in a sort of swiss roll shape, and they make big bars of it and sell slices.
05:24<KHobbits>this one is mint inside, and chocolate outside
05:24*KHobbits 's mouth waters
05:24<amitz>but seriously, how will linode sell more bodes is we run out of ipv4?
05:25<KHobbits>well linode currently gets its internet from a provider
05:25<bob2>amitz: linode has lots of unused ipv4 addresses
05:25<KHobbits>their providers runs out of ipv4's they will have started supporting ipv6 :P
05:26<KHobbits>hopefully by that point there wont be a problem
05:26<Keith>What happens to home routers and such?
05:26<amitz>ah... hmmm
05:26<Keith>My modem is only IP4 for instance.
05:26<KHobbits>were theres a few ways to fix it.
05:26<Keith>And my new Linksys router that I spent a large chunck of money on isn't IP6. LOL
05:26<bob2>KHobbits: linode has their own allocation too
05:27<G>bob2: since when?
05:27<KHobbits>firstly theres tunnels you can install on your pc, that already connects you to ipv6 tunnel.
05:27<Keith>Unless I go offline I'm not worrying about this IP6 stuff.
05:27<bob2>I don't know
05:27<KHobbits>secondly, isps will find a way :P
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05:28<KHobbits>i heard of a concept that could be rolled out at isp level
05:28<bob2>G: e.g. comes from an allocation from ripe to linode
05:28<bob2>that concept is called "nat"
05:28<KHobbits>which mapped ipv6 addresses to 10. ipv4 addresses
05:28<amitz>bob2: how big are they anyway?
05:28<KHobbits>so that home routers wouldnt need upgrading
05:28<G>bob2: actually I think they are suballocations
05:29<bob2>G: i don't really know what that means
05:30<KHobbits>since the 10. ip range isnt publically routeable.... isps could do some nifty search and replacing on domain lookups to replace ipv6 ip's with a sort of ipv6->ipv4 nat :P
05:30<KHobbits>i cant remember where i read about that.
05:30<Keith>Plus, nat has been around for quite some time now.
05:30<Keith>So with N at and other stuff..we'll see.
05:30<G>bob2: well I know a few years back anyway, Linodes' fremont allocations were from
05:31<KHobbits>no internet customer wants to be stuck behind nat. :P
05:31<Keith>But like I said--unless my ISP comes to my door with a IP6 modem and needs to replace it I'm not freeking about about this.
05:31<purrdeta>KHobbits: ohmygod. That sounds so scary
05:31<Peng>Yeah, Linode used to use PA space, and they haven't renumbered them.
05:32<KHobbits>purrdeta they already do it for mobiles and mobile broadband?
05:32<G>KHobbits: as I said a couple of hours ago, at the very least, ISPs that switch to NAT, should at the time they switch to NAT provide at the very least IPv6 tunnels
05:32<KHobbits>i think 2 of the people in my street only use those usb internet 3g things.
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05:33<purrdeta>ah yeah. They do don't they... and it's terrifying that it works
05:33<KHobbits>i remember there being a scandal a little while back with facebook
05:34<KHobbits>because facebooks security was more lax, if you hit it from an ip you had previously logged in with
05:34<KHobbits>and thus since people were signing in from their iphone (using nat) people could sign in to other peoples accounts without their passwords
05:34<purrdeta>haha I must have missed that
05:35<KHobbits>(tbh most php session/cookie login tutorials recommend using ip address as part of the security)
05:36<Peng>IP address restrictions do help security, but you can't go the other way.
05:36<KHobbits>ie all you need is the correct session hash code, and an ip address match.
05:36-!-Damian [~Damian@] has joined #linode
05:36<KHobbits>so as long as you can 'brute force' the session hash codes on a shared ip....
05:37-!-W0rmF00d is now known as WormFood
05:40<WormFood>KHobbits, are you talking about the incidents a few years ago, where people would go to facebook, and find them already logged in as someone else?
05:41<KHobbits>i think that was something else.
05:41<KHobbits>although that was the first iphone?
05:41<WormFood>it was something else, if we're thinking about the same thing
05:42<WormFood>the problem was with the protocol used by phones to talk through the network...and, if I remember correctly, it was a specific problem with one phone company that had some things screwed up with their system
05:42<G>hahaha spam e-mail: "United Nations 2006-2010 Scam Victims Compensation Payments"
05:42<KHobbits>ironic i'm sure.
05:42<WormFood>one of the problems was with the way the phones access the internet....they are handing off a lot of processing to the phone company, and the phone company wasn't handing something right...I forget the details, but it was due to poor design AND a problem on their side.
05:43<KHobbits>It was and still does use at&t's servers as a proxy, i think
05:44<KHobbits>the proxy also resizes images and such before transmission i think.
05:44<WormFood>it is a type of proxy, but not like squid
05:44<KHobbits>ie proxy views website, downloads images, runs them through gd, and transmits them to the user
05:44<WormFood>the "proxy" is part of the protocol used, that handed off processing to the ISP (phone company), to help reduce the requirements of the phone
05:45<KHobbits>its a form of NAT ;)
05:45*purrdeta sleep... night
05:50<amitz>i remember once my isp uses that method, compressing images to save bandwidth. new bottleneck!
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05:58<WormFood>I used to work at a web hosting company, and my customers would complain at my company, when their fuckn' shit ISP did stuff like that
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05:59<WormFood>where I live, my fuckin' shit ISP inserts frame advertisements into my browsing....and I block their address
06:00<WormFood>I should just redirect that to my own web server, that goes to a null page ;)
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06:03<WormFood>when you complain about poor chinese quality products, just be glad you don't have chinese Internet....not only do they spy on you (I can prove this), they insert advertisements into your browsing...and, of course, you can't go to the whole internet.
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06:06<G>WormFood: and does it strike you as weird that it's so similar to what the Taliban tried to do?
06:06-!-karlyn [~grusome@] has joined #linode
06:07<karlyn>hello i need help "has exceeded the notification threshold (1000) for disk io rate by averaging 1376.36 for the last 2 hours."
06:07<G>WormFood: surpression of information etc
06:08<WormFood>karlyn, do you know why you got that message?
06:08<WormFood>G, why would I find it odd that China is doing that? I find it odd that the USA gooberment is heading down that same path now.
06:08<G>karlyn: do you normally get that message, did you just run a disk intensive operation like a large apt-get upgrade/yum update etc?
06:09<G>WormFood: it's been reason enough to use as a selling point of war in the past
06:09<WormFood>or perhaps it is compiling something
06:09<G>karlyn: other actions: large amounts of swapping, large database import etc
06:10<karlyn>Wormfood when i refresh simultaneously all my website it occurs? so i need to restat my linode, any idea? im using ubuntu 10.04
06:10<G>karlyn: have you done any aApache tuning?
06:10<karlyn>G i normally get that message when i was browsing all my sites simultaneously
06:10<karlyn>G not yet
06:10<WormFood>yeah, it sounds like you either need to A) Ignore the message, or B) set your thresholds higher
06:10<karlyn>G how to tune apache?
06:11<G>karlyn: do some tuning of Apache/nginx etc
06:12<karlyn>G any guidelines how to tune apache?
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06:14<G>karlyn: there isn't a perfect tuning guide
06:16<karlyn>G i have 12 domains, running in linode 512, what do you suggest in tuning up?
06:17<WormFood>I suggest you set your notification threshold to 1500 or 2000 (or even 1750)
06:18<G>karlyn: you tuninig advice you'd have to ask someone else, I can't even find the bit on the wiki/Library that I recall seeing thrown around lately
06:19<karlyn>Wormfood the problem is, i need to reboot the linode, does adjusting theshold solve my problem?
06:20<WormFood>what problem?
06:20<Internat>i think your OOM'ing
06:20<Internat>if you need to reboot to get back in after that
06:20<WormFood>the only "problem" I see is the fact you don't truly understand that does not indicate a is just a notification
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06:21<WormFood>I personally set some of my thresholds lower than default.
06:22<karlyn>WormFood the problem is when i get notification threshold, all my domain stop working, i need to reboot the linode. so if i will increase the threshold does it solve my problem?
06:22<WormFood>you need to reboot? That is crazy
06:22<Internat>hence my point
06:23<Internat>i think your running out of memory, going into disk swap, which is causing your io.. then you die
06:23<WormFood>upgrade your linode to a bigger plan
06:24<Internat>do some tuning first
06:24<WormFood>and what platform are you using for these web sites?
06:24<Internat>find out why your running out of memory
06:24<karlyn>Wormfood i dont think to u upgradem because i doesnt even have trafic yet
06:24<WormFood>find out IF you're running out of memory
06:24<WormFood>what distro?
06:24<karlyn>Wormfood im using wordpress ubuntu 10.04
06:25<Internat>karlyn: whats on the console/lish, when you cant do anything anymore?
06:25<karlyn>Internat any guidelines tunning up?
06:26<amitz>karlyn: you need to decrease you threshold to get early warning before your domains act up.
06:28<WormFood>amitz, since the threshold is on a 2 hour average, I don't really see that helping a want something that is more responsive than that.
06:31<amitz>yes for better montior.
06:34<karlyn>Internat what is the optimal swap image?
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06:35<amitz>the elusive question.
06:37<Internat>the optimal swap usage is 0.. the size of the image i have no idea
06:41<spkitty>the threshold notification and the server not working are both effects not causes karlyn
06:44<WormFood>Internat, that is why I set the swap size on my desktop to 0 :D
06:45<WormFood>I know having no swap is faster, so that is what I did...I turned off swap....but now it locks up all the time, and crashes more frequently, but I gotta say, it IS faster ;)
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06:46<WormFood>thats a joke....I have 8 gig of ram, and I do have no swap....but I sometime get close to my limit of physical ram, so I'll turn on swap again, so it can swap out low usage pages IF it needs to
06:52<karlyn>Internat i'm new to VPs, i recently use hostgator, in hostgator there is a limit of lnodes, i suspect that is the reason i get loss on my system, where can i find that settings on ubuntu 10.04
06:52<linbot>New news from forums: What kind of VPS i need? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
07:06<Internat>inode limit refers to number of files..
07:06<Internat>that would stop you creating mroe files.. not cause your system to die
07:06<Internat>you need to look at your console when it dies next to see what it says
07:06<bob2>you are unlikely to run out of inodes
07:08<spkitty>threshold notification + server dieing, usually means oom
07:08*ericoc votes OOM
07:09*amitz noms oom
07:09<@ericoc>nomlicious huh?
07:10<@ericoc>eating the memories
07:13*G lives on ooms
07:13<G>and OOM a day keeps the doctor away
07:15<G>fat fingers :)
07:16<G>(with holes in them)
07:16<linbot>THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!
07:16<karlyn>Internat thanks i'm a self learn noob, lol
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07:17<G>hahah, Police arrested an Actress/Model for possession of NZ$500,000 worth of drugs.... it turned out to be fake snow
07:17<G>from a $2 store
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07:18<@ericoc>she could've sold that "snow" for a ton
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07:53<CrackerJack>can anyone help me out?
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08:04<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
08:05<CrackerJack>I wanted to know what kind of VPS i need for my site, which is intended to big a big forum/community for a successfull computer game
08:06<amitz>CrackerJack: is it already running? do you know the memory requirement? bandwidth?
08:06<CrackerJack>hi amitz, thanks for helping
08:07<CrackerJack>can we continue this in private?
08:07<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
08:07<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
08:07<amitz>aka, I'm not a staff. Just so you know ;-)
08:07<CrackerJack>i dont care
08:08<CrackerJack>can we talk in private?
08:08<amitz>well, I suggest ask in public, more help available.
08:08<CrackerJack>my site is running
08:08<CrackerJack>its currently a small forum
08:08<CrackerJack>because the game hasnt come out yet
08:09<CrackerJack>im not sure about stuff like memory or bandwidth
08:09<CrackerJack>but in the future i predict
08:09<CrackerJack>that tens of thousands of people will be signed
08:09<CrackerJack>and thousands will be online at the same time
08:09<amitz>what's very important is how you tune your app, it can make a difference in some order of magnitude
08:10<CrackerJack>sorry, app?
08:10<amitz>s/app/forum/. You can easily buy a small version of linode, then upgrade when necessary. Do remember there is a little downtime between upgrade though
08:10<CrackerJack>Downtime = hours or days?
08:11<amitz>within the same data center, probably minutes if you compress the data.
08:12<amitz>how did you run this forum originally? is this a shared hosting? dedicated server?
08:12<amitz>well, did. oh well.
08:14<amitz>CrackerJack: I mean, you must take into account the amount of work you need to do to transition to linode, if you decide to do so. And I can tell you more about possible advantage/disadvantage of linode relative to your current arrangement.
08:15<CrackerJack>shared hosting
08:15<CrackerJack>but it was on "low fire" until now
08:16<CrackerJack>of course i cant transfer the site myself, im gonna need a programer
08:19<amitz>officially, linode service doesn't include help in doing the transfer. In practice, the people here are way to helpful. Yes, I'm looking at YOU people! And if you need to solicit a professional sys admin's help, perhaps you can solicit it here.
08:20<amitz>people include linode staff themselves.
08:21<disinpho>anyone tinkered with some remote backup for your linodes? im too poor to afford the backup plan
08:21<amitz>solicit here or anywhere else.
08:23<amitz>how well of a backup do you want? Backup by another company? Backup to another DC? Clone your image to the same linode? ;-)
08:28<Yaakov>amitz: "How well of a backup" is broken. The word should be "good", though it it is still quite vernacular, at least it's not plain wrong. Note: "How well do you want your system backed up?", "How good does the backup need to be."; note also: "How are today, amitz?", "I am *well, thank you for inquiring."
08:29<Yaakov>That is, *not* "I am good!" Though it is PERFECTLY ACCPETABLE in that context, shoudl you say it, some folks will icily reply to your reflexive inquiry with, "I am quite WELL."
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08:33<disinpho>amatz: i was thinking backup to a free shell account or a home box with linux
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08:34<Yaakov>disinpho: The obvious choice for that is rsync-backup or something based on it.
08:34<disinpho>so clone an image to another server
08:34<disinpho>ok, cool
08:34<disinpho>does that back up over ssh ?
08:35<CrackerJack>Hey Amitz
08:35<CrackerJack>I would like to thank you for your hlep
08:35<CrackerJack>Can i ask you some more questions?
08:36<Yaakov>disinpho: There is another option who's name I cannot recall that encrpyts the backups. If you are backing up to a public(ish) place, you might like that.
08:36<Yaakov>BTW, rsync-backup wins: "I wrote this script for personal use, but since backuping is such a good idea, maybe you want to use my script as well. Feel free to do so."
08:36<disinpho>Yaakov: yea, but i see that rsync-backup works on a mac so i can backup to my home pc, but id like the transfer over the internet to be encrypted at least
08:37<disinpho>wait, maybe i could do rsync-backup over l2tp/ipsec
08:37<Yaakov>disinpho: That's already true since you will use SSH for the transport.
08:37<disinpho>oh, ok
08:38<Yaakov>It is also the case that it will work on any platform that can run basic GNU stuff.
08:38<Yaakov>You could install Cygwin on a Windows machine and it would work.
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08:42<amitz>Yaakov: hmm, interesting..
08:44<amitz>Yaakov: It seems you're right, I never noticed before :-p
08:44<amitz>CrackerJack: well, remember the !ask before ;-)
08:45<amitz>I'm on and off so just ask the question, if I can't answer, some others can.
08:45<Yaakov>amitz: You doubted my veracity?
08:46<amitz>Yaakov: sometimes :-p
08:47-!-Akki is now known as Aka
08:52<CrackerJack>Can someone explain what is "Transfer"?
08:52<CrackerJack>Transfer 400GB - what does that mean?
08:53<CrackerJack>It's not bandwidth, right?
08:54<HoopyCat>maximum throughput in GB/month
08:55<CrackerJack>in english plz =)
08:55<CrackerJack>im a rookie
08:55<HoopyCat>how much data you can move in or out before midnight on the 31st
08:56<CrackerJack>and what's bandwidth?
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08:56<CrackerJack>how many people can be in your site at the same time before it crashs?
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08:59<HoopyCat>in most of the world, network bandwidth is the maximum throughput in bits/second, and is usually a function of instantaneous network capacity. in web hosting, the term "bandwidth" is also used to describe the GB/month measure
08:59<HoopyCat>doesn't usually have much to do with how much traffic your site can handle without *crashing*, but can impact how much traffic your site can handle without getting slow and/or expensive
09:01<CrackerJack>i think i understand
09:01<CrackerJack>why cant i find any bandwidth tab
09:01<CrackerJack>for any plan?
09:01<CrackerJack>so transfer = bandwidth?
09:01<HoopyCat>transfer = GB/month
09:02<CrackerJack>i got that
09:02<HoopyCat>bandwidth = bits/second or sometimes GB/month
09:03<CrackerJack>so what's the bandwidth in Linode 1024
09:03<HoopyCat>i don't believe different linode plans have different bits/second settings; i think it's unlimited inbound (internet->linode) and 50 Mb/sec outbound (linode->internet), and the latter can be raised if required
09:03<CrackerJack>i know your trying to help
09:03<CrackerJack>but its like you are talking chinese
09:04<Yaakov>Using bandwidth to mean "cummulative data transfered per unit time" is a colloquialism—not completely without some rationale.
09:04<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: what do you want to know? how many gigabytes per month or how many megabits per second? :-)
09:05<Yaakov>CrackerJack: STRICTLY SPEAKING "bandwidth" refers to the signalling rate of a channel. In THIS context it refers to how many bytes have gone to and/or from your 'node in a month.
09:05<CrackerJack>sec, i think my brain just exploded, after this:
09:05<CrackerJack>Using bandwidth to mean "cummulative data transfered per unit time" is a colloquialism—not completely without some rationale
09:05<CrackerJack>let me grab the pieces
09:06<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Stop confusing the poor person!
09:06<CrackerJack>hoopy, it will be helpfull if you could tell me both
09:07<praetorian>what Yaakov said
09:07<Yaakov>The two things are most easily understood as "transfer rate" and "utilization".
09:07<CrackerJack>can someone with experience tell me how much bandwidth & Transfer i need
09:07<CrackerJack>for a large forum
09:08<dominikh>well, how long is a string?
09:08<praetorian>what is the forum hostingg? images? just text? large css files? flash? something else?
09:08<praetorian>^ insert more variables.
09:08<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: the 512 is 200 GB/month, so i think the 1024 is gonna be 400 GB/month, but check to be sure. aside from the ethernet connections themselves, there's no limits set on inbound bits/second, but outbound is limited to 50 Mb/sec by default
09:08<Yaakov>CrackerJack: You have no choice in the case of the former, and as far as the latter goes you will need to be empirical.
09:08<amitz>Yaakov: exactly what i meant, sometimes you're so playful i won't know when you're messing with my mind if i'm not careful!
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09:09<praetorian>amitz: i align myself as always playing with your mind.
09:10<HoopyCat>take 400 GB, divide it by the total size of objects downloaded for a pageview (chrome's developer tools and perhaps firebug for firefox will tell you this), and you'll have the number of pageviews/month you can cram through with 400 GB, more or less
09:10<Yaakov>amitz's mind is very much like a puppy. It hops around seemingly at random chewing on anything it finds, it drools on you when you try to talk to it, and it smells a little funny. Then, after a burst of activity, it falls asleep in a corner.
09:11<praetorian>on a 400G plan, you can serve 1 400G jpg per month.
09:11<Yaakov>And, of course, just about everyone likes to play with puppies.
09:11<HoopyCat>praetorian is using the rule of easy cases
09:11<Yaakov>praetorian seems to have neglected overhead.
09:11<CrackerJack>lets start fresh guys
09:11<Yaakov>CrackerJack: TIAS
09:12<praetorian>I hate you, HTTP.
09:12<amitz>well, uh, i'm cute, i guess :-p.
09:12<CrackerJack>its not gonna work
09:12<CrackerJack>is it
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09:12<HoopyCat>all other things being equal, poop uses more sewer bandwidth than pee
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09:13*amitz gives praetorian an item: tome of seriousness.
09:13<praetorian>CrackerJack: what Yaakov was saying is, try it, if its not enough, upgrade.
09:13<CrackerJack>anyone wanna make 50$ transfering my site from godaddy to linode?
09:13<praetorian>add a few zeros
09:14<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: shovel out my car so i can drive to the lab first? :-)
09:14<Yaakov>CrackerJack: You really need to scale your 'node purchase to the application's requirements then watch the utilization to see if you are going to exceed your plan's limits. At that point you can add transfer or buy the next plan up, as is best.
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09:14<praetorian>HoopyCat: haha, snow </jealous>
09:15<HoopyCat>i don't actually think it needs shoveled out, but i'll take what i can get, esp. since it will be much deeper by the time CrackerJack could actually get here
09:15<CrackerJack>i'll pay 250$ to whoever transfer my site from godaddy to linode
09:16<CrackerJack>first one to private message me
09:16<praetorian>question: whats your domain name.
09:16<Yaakov>CrackerJack: That's worse than a low-bid RFP!
09:16<CrackerJack>lol are u kidding
09:16<Yaakov>CrackerJack: What if the person who /msg's is a nincompoop.
09:17<praetorian>Yaakov: i think chesty is asleep.
09:17<CrackerJack>then i'd pay double Yaakov
09:17<CrackerJack>u from israel btw?
09:17<praetorian>he is
09:17<Yaakov>No, I am from the US.
09:17<CrackerJack>but ur heart is at israel though
09:17<Yaakov>How much is double Yaakov?
09:17<amitz>israel is from Yaakov!
09:17<Yaakov>No, I was born and raised in the US.
09:18<CrackerJack>350$ to whoever transfer my site
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09:18<praetorian>if we give him 30 minutes, it will be about 2 grand.
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09:18<Yaakov>CrackerJack: I fear that if you have to pay someone to move your site then unmanaged hosting is not for you.
09:19<amitz>prisoner game dilemma, start! :-p
09:19<CrackerJack>its defnitely not for me
09:19<CrackerJack>thats why i have people doing it for me
09:19<Yaakov>CrackerJack: You might want to consider a managed hosting company with experience concerning your particular appication stack. That way you have good, reliable support.
09:20<praetorian>additionally, given the weakness of the USD, maybe choose a better currency
09:20<CrackerJack>you guys are really schooling me
09:20<Yaakov>If you use a freelance sysadmin, or even a random bunch of them, you are probably going to be unhappy.
09:21<CrackerJack>i think i was unhappy if i knew what sysadmin is actually
09:21<praetorian>i just heard a baby cry.
09:22<Yaakov>SYStems ADMINastrator
09:22<Yaakov>Well... spelled properly...
09:22<CrackerJack>now i can go on with my life, phew
09:22<Yaakov>SYStems ADMINistrator
09:22<Yaakov>CrackerJack: The person you are currently trying to hire.
09:22<CrackerJack>my site is Diablo3forum
09:22<CrackerJack>can anyone recommand a specific VPS plan?
09:23<Yaakov>Which applications are you running?
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09:23<CrackerJack>What do you mean, sir?
09:23<amitz>yes, specificity begets satisfactory answers.
09:23<Yaakov>Your forum software, etc.
09:24<CrackerJack>well, we just bought this site so i dont really know
09:24<CrackerJack>except that its MYSQL
09:24<CrackerJack>and PHP based
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09:24<Yaakov>Well, it is pretty important to determine which forum software you are using.
09:26<amitz>given that situation, i must agree that you will be better of using managed hosting, or hiring someone to work at your site regularly... imho.
09:26<praetorian>especially for a site that hasnt had a single post in the last 40 days.
09:27<CrackerJack>thats because the game hasnt come out yet
09:28<CrackerJack>But you i was to get a VPN
09:28<CrackerJack>which VPN would you suggest
09:28<Yaakov>CrackerJack: This thread might be helpful:
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09:29<CrackerJack>That's Yaakov
09:30<CrackerJack>What's openvpn prea
09:30<CrackerJack>prae* jesus
09:30<Yaakov>CrackerJack: We all love Linode and its services, but if you are setting yourself up to be unhappy no one wins. Someday you might really need Linode, we'll be here.
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09:32<HoopyCat>i've got a vbulletin site in my pile of smiles that (along with a few other sites) averages about ~2.5 hits/second. that entire server is at about... eh, 85 GB/mo or so
09:33<HoopyCat>to vbulletin's credit, i didn't even know it was there until i was troubleshooting a log rotation problem
09:33<praetorian>surprised you didnt find out due to a server compromise.
09:34<HoopyCat>hahaha... haha... ha... ha ha... hah....... yeah.
09:34<linbot>New news from forums: Cloning and Updating a Wordpress Install for Clients Sites in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
09:34*HoopyCat covertly pours from a small bottle into his coffee
09:34<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Milk is not so bad.
09:34<praetorian>seems more so thsee days that forums are just targets of spam
09:35<HoopyCat>Yaakov: tends to go bad when kept in a flask
09:35<Yaakov>Not when the flask is a dewar.
09:35<Yaakov>I mean, yes, if you wait long enough...
09:35*BarkerJr passes HoopyCat the jar of chocolate-covered-almonds
09:35<HoopyCat>there once was a flask by mister dewar
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09:36<HoopyCat>no place to store liquid airs was truer
09:36<CrackerJack>Hoopy, whats ur forum address please?
09:36<Yaakov>How come we never seen BarkerSr?
09:36<HoopyCat>until one... wait, i think this is going to be a little randy for sunday morning innit
09:37<Yaakov>Little Randy is so cute, though.
09:37<Yaakov>"There once was a man from Bombay..."
09:37<CrackerJack>Hoopy, may i ?
09:37<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: it is a client's forum, so i'd rather not say
09:37<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: you may certainly finish the limerick tho :-)
09:38<HoopyCat>also, why does this computer smell like burning
09:38<CrackerJack>How many users online mostly?
09:38<Yaakov>"Who was making explosives one day."
09:38<CrackerJack>and what was the peak?
09:39<Yaakov>"Til he dropped his cigar in the blackpowder jar..."
09:39<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: doesn't look like it has that widget enabled... i pretty much only look at it to make sure i didn't break something
09:40<CrackerJack>And what yours basically saying is that shared hosting was enough
09:40<CrackerJack>for your forum/
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09:40<praetorian>Yaakov: I was trying to work our how the line "and george bush declared him a terrorist" came into it.
09:40<HoopyCat>i do note that it is very good at e-mailing us when i restart the mysql server
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09:40<Yaakov>CrackerJack: Managed hosting doesn't have to be shared. It can be a VPS or dedicated just as easily.
09:41<Yaakov>praetorian: The last line is the same as the first.
09:41*praetorian nods
09:42<CrackerJack>if im going to have
09:42<CrackerJack>around 1000 users online
09:42<CrackerJack>at the same time
09:42<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: it's tough to be sure. there's a few tricks we pull that aren't always possible in shared hosting environments, mostly involving caching, CDNs, a separate database cluster, lots of RAM, etc
09:42<CrackerJack>what am i going to need
09:42<CrackerJack>I'm gonna have a programmer to take care of all the "programmer stuff"
09:43<CrackerJack>but basically, what package do i need
09:43-!-Plinker_ is now known as Plinker
09:43<CrackerJack>does it make sense to start with Linode 512 and upgrade when needed?
09:43<CrackerJack>and if
09:43<Fieldy>512 wont' have nearly enough ram to have 1,000 users on there at the same time
09:44<CrackerJack>what will
09:44<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: a "users online" table that can store 1000 rows? :-) the number of users doesn't matter so much as the activity at any given moment. if your average someone loads a page and then spends 60 seconds reading it, that's 1000 pageviews/minute or about 16 pageviews/second
09:44<CrackerJack>so whats the bottom line Hoopy
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09:44<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: and yeah, i'm a big fan of starting with a 512, seeing how that goes, and then if/when it isn't enough, figuring out why
09:44<Talman>Is CrackerJack a manager?
09:44<CrackerJack>of course the site wont have 1000 active users online tommorow
09:45<CrackerJack>its gonna take time
09:45<CrackerJack>but for that matter
09:45<CrackerJack>starting with 512 makes sense then Hoopy?
09:45<CrackerJack>upgrading from 512 to 768 etc is free?
09:45<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: if you're using apache with mod_php (which you most likely will be doing), the #1 top most-important setting is going to be MaxClients
09:46<praetorian>Talman: that wasnt all it quacked up to be.
09:46<CrackerJack>What do you do in life, if i may?
09:46<Talman>praetorian: yay Mindcraft.
09:46<praetorian>(it's actually a chicken, but i dont know any chicken jokes!)
09:46<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: there's no additional fees to upgrade/downgrade... you just pay the difference (pro-rated to the day, which is handy)
09:47<Talman>(I know, but it looks like a duck)
09:48<HoopyCat>CrackerJack: i'm a full-time electrical engineering technology student (on the, umm, "late start" program), a part-time sysadmin and shadetree developer, and a most-of-the-rest-of-the-time househusband
09:48<CrackerJack>HoopyCat PM
09:48<HoopyCat>HoopyCat PM is like Tylenol PM, but it actually gives you a headache
09:49<praetorian>"late start" -> "mature(?) aged student" :)
09:52<praetorian>Is it me, or are ads on youtube getting rediculously large?
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09:53<CrackerJack>just you
09:53-!-underling [] has joined #linode
09:53<hobot>id agree with you praetorian
09:54<CrackerJack>then again
09:54<Fieldy>guess i never see them, adblock + filterset.g = win
09:54<CrackerJack>you could have Hyperopia
09:54<CrackerJack>thats a possibiliyu
09:54<Talman>30 second ads, yo.
09:54<DephNet[Paul]>praetorian, I find that too
09:54<Talman>Is Talman PM like when I fall asleep raging?
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09:55<praetorian>if its hyperopia, then I must be imaging the jimmy wales stuff on wikipedia too.
09:56<CrackerJack>That's just the Jimmy Wales Syndrome
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09:59<linbot>New news from forums: Linode Data Center #6 in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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10:03<praetorian>i dont think i can say anything else but,
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10:08<underling>hi im using ssh and its allowing me to generate a passphrase, but when i use it to login on remote ssh it says permission denied
10:08<underling>any thoughts on why this might be happening?
10:08<Fieldy>check your sshd_config, make sure password auth is enabled
10:10<underling>yep it has PasswordAuthentication set to yes
10:11<underling>it seemed to be working fine not so long ago
10:11<underling>do i have to do something on client machine also?
10:11<Fieldy>no idea then, tail /var/log/messages or wherever you have sshd logging to and log in, watch for errors, also use the -v flag on the client
10:11<JshWright>underling: what do you mean by "generate a passphare"
10:12<JshWright>that sounds like you're trying to use key-based authentication
10:12<Fieldy>yeah, it does, are you talking about keys?
10:12<Fieldy>because if you are, this is what you do in sshd_config (and then restart sshd): PubkeyAuthentication yes
10:12<underling>-v flag didnt come up with much PEM_read_PrivateKey failed
10:12<Fieldy>yeah we are talking about keys then, there was some confusion going on
10:13<underling>sorry yep im using an ssh key, i generate a passphrase, the try to use that passphrase and it wont accept it
10:13<JshWright>underling: let's figure out the client side first... So you generated a key locally, did you copy that key to the host?
10:14<underling>i generated a key on the linode server i would like to log into
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10:14<underling>is that the way it works? I generate a key on the client first then copy to the server?
10:14<JshWright>underling: the key is generated on the client side
10:15<JshWright>you keep the private key on the client, and copy the public key to the server
10:15<JshWright>when the client connects to the host, it uses the private key to generate a new "key" that could only be created by that private key
10:15<Fieldy>yep. you only have to do it once per system you log into, but without it, you'll get that error
10:16<JshWright>the server then veifies it against public key it already has from the client, and if they match, then it logs the client in
10:16<JshWright>(that's a very brief, and in several ways, incorrect, explanation, but it'll do for now)
10:17<Fieldy>ssh-copy-id may assist but i've just always done it manually
10:17<JshWright>so, on the client, use ssh-keygen to generate a key, then copy the public key (it'll be something like ~/.ssh/ to the server, and append it to ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
10:17<underling> i wonder should i stop using keys - bz im such a numpty im sure ill lock myself out one day
10:17<Fieldy>you'll be fine
10:18<JshWright>yeah, if your client has ssh-copy-id, then that makes life easier
10:18<Fieldy>just don't disable pass auth yet until you're sure of it
10:18<JshWright>underling: worst case, just use LISH to log in and reenable password authentication
10:18<Fieldy>worst case you can lish in and put it back
10:18<underling>i mever heard of lish
10:19<Fieldy>in the control panel, under remote access, talks about it -- accessible via your browser or sshing to it. you get access to the console, even if you don't have networking or something really bad goes wrong
10:19<linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log in to the Linode Manager. LISH's primary function is to allow you to access your Linode's console, even if networking is disabled.
10:19<underling>nice this is really good to know, was worried there all my hard work was to waste
10:20<JshWright>underling: have you read the library articles about ssh (as well as the "beginner" articles)?
10:20<underling>yeah i read loads and loads about ssh, all the articles, had it set up properly a few weeks ago, was working, but now it doesnt seem to want to work, no idea why, i must of done something wrong somewhere
10:21<JshWright>underling: the linode library articles, or random google articles?
10:22<underling>heheh both, im using ubuntu so was useful to get some background, i just keep getting confused tho about what is client and what is server
10:28<underling>thx JshWright - will read and reread, i think sometimes im just confusing myself
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10:32<Friction[2]>does anyone know of any known issues with uploading very large files (500MB) via http?
10:36<d-b>Friction[2]: yeah you time out ...
10:36<d-b>sometimes ^ ^
10:37<Friction[2]>what are more reliable options?
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10:39<Friction[2]>through a web app?
10:41<Talman>Why are you trying to upload 500mb files through a web app?
10:42<Friction[2]>because it's a file hosting website
10:42<Talman>Make people span their files.
10:42<Friction[2]>you mean split them?
10:42<Talman>Alternately, use a java uploader.
10:43<BarkerJr>the problem is that as you upload the file, the web server stores the entire thing in memory until it's done uploading. then writes to disk
10:43<Friction[2]>no it stores in the filesystem
10:43<Friction[2]>and then moves to the destination
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10:44<Friction[2]>isn't java a bit insecure? might be wrong, but doesn't firefox disable it by default?
10:44<BarkerJr>nope, but java isn't installed in the system by default
10:45<danieldg>BarkerJr: not all web servers store the entire file in memory
10:45<Friction[2]>so how to big file hosts manage files of 500MB or even 1GB?
10:45<danieldg>perl's CGI:IRC has a limit that's by default 500MB, but you can change it
10:45<danieldg>it stores the file on disk
10:45<JshWright>no reason the server can't stream the file to disk
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10:46<danieldg>s/:IRC// bah
10:46<BarkerJr>can the server recognize the post data as a file before it gets the complete thing when it's say compressed?
10:46<Friction[2]>i had to do something with my tmp dir/ partition/ w/e to increase it's capacity from 500MB. it's now 5GB
10:46<danieldg>BarkerJr: yep
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10:47<danieldg>in perl: $CGI::POST_MAX $CGITempFile::TMPDIRECTORY
10:48<BarkerJr>then why do people set the file limit to like 2MB? just to save disk space?
10:48<amitz>Friction[2]: perhaps you should consider splitting the file if you can?
10:48<danieldg>BarkerJr: right, and bandwidth
10:48<Friction[2]>amitz, me (the server) or the uploader?
10:49<Talman>Do I need to start blocking all PM requests.
10:50<Talman>Do not PM the Talman without permission. Not only will I not see it for hours, I will be -.-
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10:51<Friction[2]>i've just tried again to upload a 500MB file and it failed after about 1hr and a half. i have no idea what's going on
10:51<danieldg>split it before uploading then
10:52<Talman>What do your logs say?
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10:52<danieldg>nothing like they're turned off, or nothing interesting?
10:53<Friction[2]>nothing at all
10:54<Talman>Are they setup?
10:55-!-Fieldy [] has joined #linode
10:55<amitz>Friction[2]: the file you're planning to upload.
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10:59<amitz>Friction[2]: I meant, can't you split the file you're going to upload?
11:00<Friction[2]>yes, but i'm not expecting my users to want to or to know how
11:01<KHobbits>Uploading large files using post, is probably not a good idea, use some sort of applet, java/flash/silverlight
11:02<amitz>Friction[2]: not a guarantee but suppose you make the connection https, your isp may gives more priority to it, not to mention more resistance towards timeout.
11:02<amitz>or as KHobbits says, let the user download an uploader.
11:02<amitz>an uploader app.
11:02<KHobbits>no need to 'download' as such, but fair enough.
11:03<KHobbits>theres quite a few flash ones:
11:03<amitz>ah, with KHobbits suggestion, users don't even have to know that they're actually downloading uploader.
11:03<Friction[2]>i read this, but i don't really understand.
11:03<KHobbits>Thats not really applicable...
11:04<KHobbits>thats more for php scripts which do processes that take longer to proccess than normal browser timeouts
11:04<KHobbits>for example, you upload an word document, and then php works on the word doc for 3 minutes before sending you back a pdf
11:05<KHobbits>i'd recommend using a flash uploader personally, similar to that link i pasted.
11:05<KHobbits>i know there are free ones to be had, although that one was just the top result in google.
11:06<Friction[2]>doesn't flash use php?
11:06<KHobbits>flash runs on the browser
11:07<Friction[2]>i'm all for flash uploaders, but if i can figure out how large file hosts manage the problem i'd rather copy them
11:07<KHobbits>last i checked, rapidshare and megaupload both use flash uploaders.
11:08<Friction[2]>not hotfile
11:08<KHobbits>those two are pretty much the biggest in the biz.
11:08<KHobbits>let me check hotfile.
11:09<danieldg>the main issue with HTTP uploads is that you can't resume them if they get interrupted
11:09<danieldg>flash can, if the applet is written to do so
11:09<Friction[2]>hotfile only does 400MB though
11:09<danieldg>there's no limit in HTTP for 500MB
11:10<Friction[2]>ok i'll use flash. i couldn't get the php file progress library to work anyway, so it'd solve 2 stones with one bird
11:10<danieldg>I've pushed multi-GB files through an upload script
11:10<linbot>New news from forums: This seems simple, but how do I restrict user to their home? in General Discussion <>
11:12<amitz>the elusive question.
11:12<publiccert>its kind of impossible :P
11:12<KHobbits>Friction[2], as far as i can tell, hotfile uses javascript
11:12<danieldg>what's impossible?
11:12<publiccert>user restriction
11:12<KHobbits>'restrict user to their home' im guessing.
11:13<danieldg>it's hard, not impossible. Probably too hard for what they want.
11:13<publiccert>sure, you can put a lot of stuff in place, but you can never truly stop them
11:13<Friction[2]>KHobbits, uploading with javascript?
11:14<KHobbits>it appears so
11:14<Friction[2]>sure javascript isn't involved but it uses something else?
11:14<danieldg>you can stop them unless they can escalate privileges
11:14<publiccert>You can't stop them if you're allowing terminal access. Period.
11:14<KHobbits>function startUpload() {....
11:14<danieldg>publiccert: not true, unless they have a kernel exploit
11:15<danieldg>chroot jails or a security framework can do it
11:15<danieldg>(selinux, apparmor, grsec, etc)
11:15<Talman>HeChrome has REddit built into the spellchecker.
11:16<KHobbits>but yes Friction[2], js is involved in some way, theres quite a bit of javascript on the page involved with it
11:16<KHobbits>(why not read the source if your curious)
11:17<KHobbits>the upload button and the form are powered by js, i dont have the time to work out where it draws the line, theres enough code there to handle it all :P
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11:18<KHobbits>Alright, im off, my parents have a sunday roast cooking at their place, so im going to drop in to visit :P
11:22<Friction[2]>ok, so the flash option: php is ultimately still used to coordinate the upload, but flash feeds it to the php script bit by bit and smooths out any disconnections?
11:22<danieldg>that's how I would do it
11:23<KHobbits>one final note: it doesnt need to be php Friction[2], it could be any server side scripting language
11:23<KHobbits>cgi/ruby/php etc
11:23<Friction[2]>the site is programmed in php anyway
11:24<KHobbits>basically the goal is to use something on the client end
11:24<KHobbits>ie flash / java / js to cut the files up
11:24<KHobbits>and something on the server end to glue em back together
11:24<KHobbits>that way if a bit fails, it can be resumed
11:24<Friction[2]>it's be cool if flash had a compression library
11:25<danieldg>are you sure it doesn't?
11:25<amitz>if you're uploading video, the compression library may be useless.
11:25<danieldg>most large files aren't compressible anyway
11:25<KHobbits>alright as said earlier, im off :P
11:26<amitz>shu shu ;-)
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11:48<DephNet[Paul]>I have a non-linode related question, not sure if anyone has tried this yet but here goes, could I get an IPv6 allocation from HE and tunnel my home connection through them?
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11:49<DephNet[Paul]>or does my home router need to support IPv6?
11:53<danieldg>it does not, but the endpoint of the HE tunnel does
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11:54<DephNet[Paul]>danieldg, so it could work?
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11:59<Friction[2]>argh why is it all phpbb forums are utter crap
11:59<Friction[2]>because it's so crap at preventing spam most forums have annoying security measures like manually approving members
12:00<DephNet[Paul]>because phpbb is utter crap
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12:06<HoopyCat>DephNet[Paul]: that is what i do
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12:07<DephNet[Paul]>HoopyCat, is it fairly simple to set up?
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12:09<HoopyCat>DephNet[Paul]: i have a tunnel between HE and a linode, with a /48 LAN block... i then use openvpn between a modest server at home and the linode, routing a /64 over that. (there's other openvpn tunnels to other linodes, my netbook, the kremlin, etc, which also get an ipv6 /64 each. the netbook also gets NAT service for ipv4.)
12:10<BarkerJr>if your router supports dd-wrt firmware, then you can probably get ipv6 support in it
12:11<DephNet[Paul]>BarkerJr, it doesnt, its a 9 year old Belkin, although that will be replaced early next year with a Speedtouch 585v8 probably
12:11<HoopyCat>internally, we refer to the openvpn tunnels as "cloudtubes"; the dual-stacking for mobile devices protects against skytube subterfuge
12:11<BarkerJr>well, make sure whatever you replace it with supports ipv6 :)
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12:12<HoopyCat>and also helps me burn through the 200 GB/month quota
12:12<BarkerJr>HE actually lets you setup a VPN to their servers so you can cut out the middleman, the linode
12:12<DephNet[Paul]>BarkerJr, its the UK, not alot of consumer grade stuff supports IPv6
12:12<BarkerJr>right, you won't get a $40 router supporting ipv6... you'd have to go up towards $120
12:13<BarkerJr>high-end consumer
12:14<DephNet[Paul]>even if I did have an IPv6 compatible router, I couldnt use it as normal, 1) my ISP is not giving out IPv6 IP's, even if you ask, and 2) BT does not support IPv6
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12:15<DephNet[Paul]>hence seeing if it fairly easy to use a HE tunnel
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12:15<BarkerJr>you'd want a router that supports native ipv4 and an HE tunnel
12:15<BarkerJr>then it would delegate ipv6 addresses to all your PCs
12:16<BarkerJr>so your PCs would have "native" ipv6 in your ipv6 island, and only your router would need to know it's really a tunnel
12:16<DephNet[Paul]>and consoles :P
12:17<BarkerJr>heh, I bet they don't care much about ipv6
12:17<DephNet[Paul]>that is if the 360 supports IPv6
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12:29<spkitty>speaking of routers, any recommendations for something not shit and not expensive that supports wireless n
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12:31<hawk>spkitty: What's your definition of "not expensive"?
12:32<spkitty>50 quid? :v
12:33<BarkerJr>is quid in USD or GBP? :P
12:33<hawk>GBP I assume...?
12:34<Friction[2]>squid i GBP and duck is USD
12:34<hawk>duck? :>
12:34<graq>I've got an IP address that has been trying to log in as root on my node for the past 10-15mins.
12:34<Fieldy>block it.
12:34<graq>Is there a way I can block 'em?
12:34<Friction[2]>with the iptables
12:34<graq>Ubunty 10.04 (using ufw)
12:35<Fieldy>iptables -I INPUT -s address-here -j DROP
12:35-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
12:35<Fieldy>no idea what ufw is
12:35<BarkerJr>do you feel that your security is so week that he'll get in if he continues to try? :)
12:35<graq>BarkerJr: No, but I'd rather he just left me along anyway.
12:36-!-jel [] has joined #linode
12:36<BarkerJr>so you're trying to push your problem user onto the rest of us? very nice
12:36<Fieldy>after that consider 1) moving sshd to a non-standard port 2) utilize AllowUsers in sshd_config 3) turn on key-based auth 4) turn off pass auth when you're confident that it works 5) set up something like portknocking or whitelisting
12:36<hawk>spkitty: Not sure I have a suggestion then, but you could check out the charts for wireless and/or routers at for some suggestions
12:36<BarkerJr>take it like a man! :P
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12:36-!-jel is now known as Guest107
12:36<Guest107>Hi guys. I'd like to set up a wikileaks mirror (wikileaks are encouraging this). What's linode's stance on it?
12:36<Fieldy>graq: run the command i gave you and they're blocked
12:37<Fieldy>then consider the 5 items i listed
12:37<Friction[2]>Guest107, you want to be accused of rape too?
12:37<BarkerJr>I have a nice router with wireless n but I have it turned off cause I have no wireless devices
12:37<Guest107>Friction[2], for the sake of fighting a corrupt government? Perhaps.
12:38<Fieldy>Guest107: that's a good question but given that hosting material that is still classified is illegal, i highly doubt linode would tolerate it, especially in the US data centers.
12:38<spkitty>Guest107: ignore friction, terrible troll
12:38<publiccert>Guest107: make sure to watch your bandwidth...
12:38<Fieldy>but I cannot and do not speak for linode, it's a guess
12:38<Friction[2]>in america government > law
12:38<Guest107>Yeah, I'm thinking I could just bandwidth limit it to make sure it doesn't go over a certain cost.
12:38<publiccert>and you don't get dos'd
12:38<graq>Fieldy: thanks
12:38<Fieldy>might make a good forums post, others may be wondering as well. in fact I suggest that
12:39<Fieldy>graq: good luck
12:39<spkitty>Guest107: you're definitely not the first too ask
12:39<Fieldy>you'll see a lot more of those attacks if you don't do some of those steps
12:39<HoopyCat>i'd probably ask an attorney about these sorts of questions
12:39<spkitty>i've seen 4 in the last few days
12:39<Fieldy>sure. but it's a pretty black and white question to linode what their policy is
12:39<Friction[2]>that guy has managed to get all leaders of world powers to hate him. i'll give him 3 days
12:39<Guest107>spkitty, wondered if it'd come up. Thanks.
12:40<hawk>For the black and whiteness, I guess you can just read the ToS,
12:40<Guest107>spkitty, no firm answers then? No linode reps on here?
12:40-!-Giacomohhh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:40<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
12:40<Fieldy>hawk: good call
12:40<Fieldy>Linode and the services it provides may only be used for lawful purposes. Transmission, distribution, or storage of any information, data or material in violation of United States or state regulation or law, or by the common law, is prohibited.
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12:41<Fieldy>there's your answer, Guest107. that's in the Tos.
12:41-!-HarryS [] has joined #linode
12:41<Fieldy>also a good point
12:41<Guest107>Problem is, legality is highly questionable. I'll email, thanks :)
12:42*graq turns off root login.
12:42<Fieldy>it's not questionable in the least. there is established case law and precidence.
12:42<Guest107>legality vs. non-legality, that is.
12:42<HoopyCat>Guest107: hence the "ask an attorney" part :-)
12:42-!-Internat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:42<Guest107>Fieldy, there is also an established constitution ;)
12:43<Guest107>Plus, I'm not in the US and some of their DC's aren't.
12:44<BarkerJr>Guest107: if you can't run a mirror, you could run a tor relay instead, and that'd help wikileaks. The tos explicitely allows tor
12:44<HoopyCat>i could see an argument for applying article 3 section 3, but i'd say the DMCA would be a significantly easier mechanism
12:45<HoopyCat>(well, a DDoS would be easier than that, especially if the copyright status of classified material isn't something entirely cut and dried)
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12:48<Fieldy>Guest107: the ToS spkitty linked to clearly states that what i pasted applies to all of their datacenters, US or not
12:48<Hoggs>Tempted to just setup a throwaway account at 1and1 for a WL mirror :p
12:48<Hoggs>But I wouldn't risk my linode for it
12:48<publiccert>Hoggs: agreed. Make another account?
12:50<BarkerJr>make sure to run tor on your mirror :)
12:50<Guest107>Yeah, I was thinking of a dedicated vhost. Definitely wouldn't want it on the same vhosts I use for other stuff. Although accounts would be linked by card :/
12:50<publiccert>Guest107: not sure they'd ban the card...
12:50<publiccert>thats just speculation though
12:51<Guest107>Yeah, probably not. It's more a question of finding a host that's on the right side for me, than finding a host I can "get away" with using.
12:51<Hoggs>That's why I suggested 1and1, they're a crappy host with a terrible legal dept. And they overprovision bandwidth like crazy. ;P
12:51<publiccert>Mass linode migration to 1and1, go!
12:52<publiccert>bet it would do some damage with enough WL mirrors hosted there
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12:54<BarkerJr>you don't want to make it eacy for china to block all the wl mirrors in one netblock
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12:55<Hoggs>Haha, china's gonna LOVE this
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12:55<publiccert>Ya, why would they block it?
12:55<Hoggs>They already did
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12:57<Guest107>"Hello, First, thank you for contacting us before posting such controversial material on your Linode. Hosting a WikiLeaks mirror would indeed be a violation of our terms of service. Furthermore, as has already been witnessed at several other hosting providers, you would almost certainly attract DDoS attacks. This would render your Linode and the content useless, in addition to violating our terms of service. Again, thank you for as
12:57<Guest107>king permission to host this material, however we must request that you do not mirror WikiLeaks on Linode's network. Regards, Lee"
12:57<Guest107>That kinda sucks.
12:57<publiccert>Thats pretty disappointing
12:58<hawk>Unsurprising, though
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12:59<Guest107>Yep. Anyone know much about these guys: ? They say they're willing to preserve anonymity, don't care if you lie about your name etc., and are willing to be paid basically any way you can safely get money to them.
12:59<Hoggs>Is the material acctually illegal, though? I mean freedom of press and the constitution or whatever it is you guys have over there.. Isn't don't they classify it as legal?
12:59<BarkerJr>right, linode made it quite clear yesterday that they consider wikileaks to be illegal (you can read the logs)
13:00<Guest107>Hoggs, of course not. What's illegal is the stuff documented in it, and the attempts to prevent justice by preventing publication. It'll be a fight to prove that, but hosting companies shouldn't be assuming guilt
13:01<graq>What creates this entry in auth.log: 'localhost su[4901]: Successful su for postgres by root
13:01<Guest107>graq, probably a cron job doing a db compaction or backup
13:01<graq>I don't have postgres running.
13:01<hawk>something/someone using su to switch from being root to being postgres
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13:02<Guest107>graq, if it's installed, you'll still see cron jobs for it with most distro's package management I'm sure.
13:02<tofupup>graq: but you have a postgres user, which means the packages were installed, which means there's probably still a cron in place
13:05<graq>I don't see anything obvious on /etc/cron.* .. Could it from when I was playing with webmin?
13:06<HoopyCat>freedom of speech doesn't include the freedom to use someone else as a shield to protect yourself from bullets
13:06<tofupup>graq, you also checked /var/spool/cron?
13:06<HoopyCat>that much i'm pretty sure about
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13:06<Hoggs>HoopyCat: Wha?
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13:07<tofupup>graq: webmin has a cron job module, so depends on if something got stuck in there
13:08<kfawcett>hello - I've managed to bring my server to a stand still. I'm setting up Wordpress Multisite and I exported SQL tables settings from one site to another and the server is OOMing. Any idea how and why this happened?
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13:12<graq>tofupup, it matches up with a call to /etc/webmin/status/
13:16<graq>Don't see where/how it thinks postgres is running
13:17<tofupup>check webmin -> others -> server status and see if you can disable postgres there
13:17<hawk>postgres is installed but not running? Is that it?
13:18<disinpho>i have the exact same problem as this guy: can/should i do something about it?
13:18<tofupup>hawk: my guess is webmin is trying to fire postgres back up...i believe that's what monitor does if it finds a service down
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13:33<BarkerJr>"covers cats' eyes, creating a calming effect"... right :)
13:36<tjfontaine>I always get freaked out when cats watch me
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13:36<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: except if its you
13:36*HoopyCat monitors tjfontaine
13:36-!-sinus_ [~Subsea_In@] has joined #linode
13:36<HoopyCat>tjfontaine: i read ur mind
13:36<tjfontaine>maybe we spend too much time together?
13:38<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: you're beating minn, how are you feeling?
13:39<tjfontaine>HoopyCat: correction
13:40<HoopyCat>tjfontaine: eh, in the midst of analyzing a circuit for static timing hazards. no time for football :-)
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13:45<superdug>so ... where does mirror wikileaks land on the linode TOS?
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13:46<Hoggs>superdug: It's a big no
13:46<Hoggs>Scroll up, we just discussed it
13:46<tjfontaine>I would put in a ticket if you're seriously considering it
13:46<superdug>oh for reals
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13:46<superdug>tjfontaine: not on my linode I'm not ... lol
13:46<Yaakov>Note that the form has a checkbo labeled: I know that this may be dangerous if I host a virtual host, and I'm ok with this risk. *
13:47<superdug>tjfontaine: and upscroll says "zomg we're scared go make a ticket" ... that's not exactly a "big no" :-P
13:47-!-CaptObvi1usman is now known as CaptObviousman
13:48<superdug>tjfontaine: please forward my last message to you, to hoggs
13:49<superdug>mikegrb: c'mon, setup a mirror ... you could get an all expenses paid trip to DC
13:49<Hoggs>Excuse my spam, but
13:49<Hoggs><Guest107> "Hello, First, thank you for contacting us before posting such controversial material on your Linode. Hosting a WikiLeaks mirror would indeed be a violation of our terms of service. Furthermore, as has already been witnessed at several other hosting providers, you would almost certainly attract DDoS attacks. This would render your Linode and the content useless, in addition to violating our terms of service. Again, thank
13:49<Hoggs> you for as
13:49<Hoggs><Guest107> king permission to host this material, however we must request that you do not mirror WikiLeaks on Linode's network. Regards, Lee"
13:49<Hoggs><Guest107> That kinda sucks.
13:49<superdug>thats just because they want to do it right ... and make sure they go in front of a senate hearing on free speech ... and not Guantanamo Bay
13:49<BarkerJr>course you're trusting someone named guest in this... if you want to be sure, ask linode yourself
13:51<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
13:51<tjfontaine>no reason to discuss it since superdug doesn't want it in his account
13:51<superdug>BarkerJr: it's an interesting situation that's for certain, the free speech argument is pretty sound now that the leaks are public domain ... but when you have senators throwing around "treason" I can see where linode would take a "not a fight we want to fight" stance
13:51<HoopyCat>if you do it, make sure to do it out of fremont 'cuz i don't maintain/have any linodes out there
13:52<Hoggs>@caker: Might I suggest making an official annoucement or something about this? It's going to be asked a hundred times today, I swear.
13:52<superdug>I'm sure the same answer would com if someone wanted to make a ToR exit node on their linode as well
13:52<tjfontaine>Hoggs: only if you stop using twitterisms
13:52<superdug>he did colon after the @
13:53<Yaakov>@tjfontaine OMGWTFBBQ LOL
13:53<Hoggs>caker is also @ op
13:53<superdug>I guess I don't understand why there isn't a torrent of the mirror up ... seems the best way to mirror quickly
13:53<tjfontaine>IRC > 3*Twitter
13:54<Hoggs>superdug: They want to keep the mirrors up to date themselves
13:54<BarkerJr>superdug: well, the tos clearly says that any use that generates abuse email is forbidden, and that's what tor exits generate :)
13:54<HoopyCat> <--- qft
13:55<Yaakov>HoopyCat: I want one of these:
13:55<BarkerJr>I would guess that a wl mirror wouldn't generate abuse email
13:55<Hoggs>wl mirror will generate all kinda of abuse
13:56<BarkerJr>I like how amazon finishes up by saying that they're so great and don't care about just one of hundreds of thousands of customers
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13:56<superdug>BarkerJr: there was a lot of opinion there, but it's sufficient enough to make sure they won't get a subpoena
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13:57<BarkerJr>paypal says about the same... when I terminated my account, they emailed me that they have award-winning service and tons of other customers so goodbye and good luck
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13:57<superdug>I don't quite understand the whole shutting things down
13:58<HoopyCat>Yaakov: that'll keep those pesky magmount antennas from being knocked off in the car wash
13:58<superdug>shutting something down, makes people like it more
13:58<tjfontaine>poor argument superdug
13:58<Yaakov>HoopyCat: It would be the ultimate magmount, permanent.
13:59<superdug>tjfontaine: it's true though, no one really knew or care what wikileaks was until people started paying attention to them ... where they finally started getting traction was with bringing on the new york times and washington post to get a preview of the data
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14:01<BarkerJr>well, the shooting of the reporters and children video last spring kinda got wikileaks named
14:02<BarkerJr>and don't forget to watch
14:05<graq>WHy has the DNS on my router gone? Bleurgh
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14:11<BarkerJr>error: Job execution of per-minute job scheduled for 05:24 delayed into subsequent minute 05:25. Skipping job run.
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14:17<Talman>Yeah, but nobody cared about some dead iraqi reporters.
14:18<CompWizrd>Yaakov: put it on the side of your car.. anyone who ever bangs their door into your car isn't going to be able to remove their door.. they'll have to leave it hanging there.
14:18<Talman>Now this is about tons of SECRET INFORMATION so, you know, people are involved. Many not from the US.
14:18<Fieldy>take it to a politics channel?
14:18<Talman>Is Yaakov making a giant spike for an antenna?
14:18<BarkerJr>they weren't iraqi reporters, they were associated press
14:19<Talman>Reuters, actually.
14:19<Talman>Local reporter and camerman.
14:19<Talman>Local as in "I live here, I cover this hellhole for Reuters."
14:20<Talman>Not Al Bumbfuck TV in Iraq.
14:21<BarkerJr>hehe ok
14:21<HoopyCat>this is probably the sort of thing more on-topic for, say, #oftc
14:22<Fieldy>quite... please, it gets old.
14:22*HoopyCat quickly exits, stage right
14:22<BarkerJr>blame the guest :)
14:22<Talman>The whole thing is meh, paypal doesn't give a shit why you close your account, paypal has the WORLD giving it money.
14:23<purrdeta>and Amazon doesn't care really either they have so much business
14:23<Talman>And paypal will continue to have the world give it money, because its not regulated under federal or international law as a bank.
14:23<Talman>Amazon knew it hosted wikileaks?
14:23<Talman>I'd be surprised if Linode knew everything it hosted.
14:23<BarkerJr>amazon only hosted it for about a week
14:23<HoopyCat>Talman: they, apparently, found out:
14:23<Fieldy>the only thing they cared about was illegal activity taking place on their servers, simple as that.
14:23<purrdeta>I'm sure they found out real fast
14:24<BarkerJr>well, yeah, they got ddos'd :P
14:24<BarkerJr>hosters tend to notice stuff like that, heh
14:25<Talman>TOS volation
14:25<Talman>BUT IT WAS OBAMA SILENCING FREEDOM. Yes, with a TOS violation notice.
14:25<HoopyCat>note that the word "illegal" appears nowhere in there
14:25<purrdeta>urmom is illegal.
14:25<Talman>"Some of this data is controversial"
14:25<Talman>HoopyCat: Dissiminating classified information is illegal. They don't need to get into that.
14:26<Talman>Its a copyright infringement claim according to amazon.
14:26<BarkerJr>well, if you call something illegal and you're wrong, it's slander
14:28<Talman>That's why you wait for the criminal case to finish before the civil.
14:28<Talman>You've got proof.
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14:28<tofupup> /lastlog
14:29<hobot>ehe I just did that
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14:37<superdug>I wish that there was something on the internet ... that would shock someone everytime they typed slander or libel
14:37<Kuboing>there is
14:37<Kuboing>it's called the internet
14:37<superdug>HoopyCat: you're an asshole
14:37<Kuboing>and 4chan
14:37<superdug>thats neither slander nor libel
14:37<superdug>thats an opinion
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14:37<Talman>Why do you need to shock people who type slander or libel?
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14:38<superdug>Talman: because there is this misconception that if someone is mean to you on the internet that you can always resort to a civil libel case
14:38<HoopyCat>superdug: <3
14:39<superdug>you can't ... someone being mean to you on the internet ... is called being on the internet
14:39<HoopyCat>it's called being in society
14:40<superdug>though, I do dream, this dream is of being the ultimate troll ... and that ... is setting up an international internet court
14:40<superdug>the lulz ... you'd need buckets to clean them up
14:42<HoopyCat>john locke covered this shit some years ago, even before the advent of usenet
14:43<Yaakov>It is very possible to be successfully sued for libel because of content you are responsible for on the Internet.
14:45<HoopyCat>meanwhile, the snow isn't getting any less deep outside. i should go to the lab while i still can
14:45<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Or don't!
14:46<Yaakov>HoopyCat: Go wild and stay home.
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14:48<superdug>Yaakov: "very possible" ? It's also very possible you could win the lottery or very possible that you'll be the human to make first contact with an alien life
14:48<superdug>relative terminology FTW
14:49<superdug>Yaakov: please refer to the main part of a civil suit, which is, proving damages
14:50<HoopyCat>if you just go into court and say "well, i think he's full of shit. the defense motions, uhh, to rest? or something", you can only hope the judge takes pity and has a word with you off-the-record
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14:50<Yaakov>superdug: There have been successful suits.
14:50<HoopyCat>that's a pretty good way to lose an otherwise-unreasonable lawsuit :-)
14:50<Yaakov>superdug: It's not theoretical.
14:51<Yaakov>superdug: Libel is not hard to prove, if it reaches the level of the legal bar.
14:51<superdug>Yaakov: for 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of people who threaten it on the internet, it's even worse than theoretical
14:52<HoopyCat>FWIW, for all the times i've been threatened with such, i've yet to even get a sternly-worded letter in the postal mail
14:52<Yaakov>superdug: I didn't realize that we weren't have a conversation. I will just stop. Sorry to have bothered you.
14:52<superdug>HoopyCat: generally because those cost money
14:53<superdug>Yaakov: I'm not saying that the laws aren't real, I'm saying that most people have no idea what libel or slander is
14:53<BarkerJr>ignorance of the law is no excuse
14:53<HoopyCat>that said, should i receive a personally-delivered invitation to a reception in my honor at the county courthouse, i'm gonna wanna lawyer up
14:54<HoopyCat>legal opinions are like assholes; the internet has a lot of them, and most of them are opinions
14:54<superdug>HoopyCat: or just know that there is an uncollected judgment against you in some remote county in some remote state you'll never go to :-)
14:56<superdug>it's why I always talk shit about people in Uzbeckistan ... I'm never going there
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14:57<Friction>using a flash uploader instead of just php seems to have fixed the problem. uploaded 3/4 of a 500MB file
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14:58<MJCS>jesus christ
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14:58-!-mode/#linode [+RM] by tjfontaine
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14:58<ariel>very funny
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14:59<Friction>and what was wrong with ? :/
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15:00<Keith>Hi. I'm curious about something. Thought I'd test this, but I don't know if it's possible much less what might happen. I thought I'd attempt to run a backuped img file of my Linode's filesystem. But I'm guessing that simply making an fs on a vm and using dd on the img file wouldn't work.
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15:00<Talman>lol whut
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15:01<tjfontaine>ahah independent you fuck
15:02<Miranas>Keith: Dismount the file system (or a clone) and dd device to a file. Should be able to mount it loopback.
15:03-!-mode/#linode [-RM] by tjfontaine
15:04<Miranas>Whether it is easily converted into a VM disk image I don't know
15:05<superdug>moldtelcom ... now thats a company I can do business with
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15:06<BarkerJr>Lost expires on hulu later this month... is it worth watching?
15:06<superdug>congrats on pissing off the script kiddie
15:06<superdug>BarkerJr: I Watched them all, I don't feel like it was the best use of my time, but I Don't miss that time
15:07<Keith>Pissing off the script kiddie?
15:07<Friction>that was kevin mitnick himself
15:07<superdug>BarkerJr: there were a LOT of incomplete plot lines
15:07<superdug>Keith: the guest flood that managed to kill ... no one in the room
15:07<BarkerJr>do you know if "Pilot - Enhanced" is just part 1 and part 2 combined?
15:07-!-BlueSageDigital [] has joined #linode
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15:08<BlueSageDigital>Hello, hey is there a program for linode to resell the services?
15:08<tjfontaine>superdug: you're welcome for the excellent software that managed to mitigate
15:08<tjfontaine>BlueSageDigital: you are free to do so
15:08<tjfontaine>but there is no branding for the manager
15:08<BlueSageDigital>is there any type of discount for multiple servers?
15:08<tjfontaine>to do that you'll need to write a front end to the api
15:08<superdug>tjfontaine: thank you omg so much :-)
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15:08<BlueSageDigital>Oh there is an API offered?
15:09<tjfontaine>BlueSageDigital: yup
15:09<BlueSageDigital>Well then I will have to check that out.
15:09<BlueSageDigital>Thanks for the help, that really helps me, but there is no discount for being a reseller then right.
15:09<BarkerJr>if you find a discount, let me know :)
15:09<BlueSageDigital>HAHA.. that is cool, but I think I can handle that much.
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15:16<Yaakov>BlueSageDigital: I suppose you could use the yearly discount as your margin.
15:16-!-zivester [] has joined #linode
15:16<Yaakov>BlueSageDigital: You could pay one or two years ahead and take the 10 or 15%.
15:17<BarkerJr>that's what I do
15:17-!-mft [] has joined #linode
15:18<BarkerJr>but I expect 50% off
15:18<Yaakov>BarkerJr: Keep expecting!
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15:21<BlueSageDigital>Well then that is what I will have to do. :)
15:21<BlueSageDigital>At any rate have a good one guys.
15:21<BlueSageDigital>Thanks for the input.
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15:22<Friction>woo it uploaded the 500MB file
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15:28<OneWhoFrogs>hello, Rails question here. I've followed this ( tutorial and created a controller, view and route in my Rails app, but my site still gives an error, saying that it can't access the database. db:migrate doesn't solve my problems.
15:28<OneWhoFrogs>would anyone know how to solve this?
15:32-!-Friction[2] [~Friction@] has joined #linode
15:32<duff>OneWhoFrogs: and you did set up a db and configured it?
15:32<OneWhoFrogs>Nope, but it's SQLite... isn't it automatic?
15:33-!-pea[2] [~Friction@] has joined #linode
15:33<OneWhoFrogs>bah, have to go, sorry! I'll ask again later.
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15:54<Talman>is it automatic?
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15:59<BarkerJr>yeah, couldn't he have consolidated lines?
15:59<linbot>MJCS: It's not just you!
16:01<tjfontaine>BarkerJr: that is the consolidated version
16:03<Yaakov>Four modes per line.
16:03<Yaakov>An arbitrary limitation of the lame IRCd.
16:04<Yaakov>Er... I meant lovely software we all love, lovingly.
16:05<tjfontaine>it's actually as many modes as you can do in (510+\r\n)-len("mode ")
16:07<tonyyarusso>tjfontaine: meaning longer hostnames -> fewer modes per line?
16:07<tjfontaine>tonyyarusso: yes
16:08<tjfontaine> <-- find the off by one
16:08<BarkerJr>so if you want your flood to do maximum damage, you should choose zombies with long hostnames
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16:38<dominikh>if it's "as many modes as you can do in bla", why does it say MODES=4 in 005 (ISUPPORT) for oftc? :P
16:38-!-mode/#linode [+bbbb *!*@1.example *!*@2.example *!*@3.example *!*@4.example] by jed
16:38-!-mode/#linode [+bbb *!*@5.example *!*@6.example *!*@7.example] by jed
16:38<@jed>ah, irssi used MODES=4
16:38-!-mode/#linode [-bbbb *!*@1.example *!*@2.example *!*@3.example *!*@4.example] by jed
16:38-!-mode/#linode [-bbb *!*@5.example *!*@6.example *!*@7.example] by jed
16:39*jed doesn't feel like quoting
16:41<Talman>Wait, that one guy was asking about a 1024 for a VBulletin forum?
16:41<Talman>vBulletin take many rseources per user?
16:42-!-k[t [~]r@2001:0:53aa:64c:4ed:2276:b355:d5f1] has joined #linode
16:44<tonyyarusso>Talman: The Ubuntu Forums uses vBulletin even though it's proprietary software primarily because it handled the high load demands best, if that answers your question.
16:45<Talman>Guy was afraid a 512 woouldn't be enough for his huge site. Its a blank vbulletin, I was wondering if his fears were unwarranted.
16:46<dominikh>it might be blank *now*, but it will become _huge_ soon
16:46<tjfontaine>... PROFIT
16:47<Talman>I mean, if the thing eats resources like jelly babies, I can see why he'd want a 1024.
16:47<Nivex>start small. as it grows, tune. if you run out of resources, then upgrade.
16:48<Nivex>or just go ahead and buy a bunch of big honkin' nodes and make caker some mad dough :)
16:48<Fieldy>yep. just upgrade bandwidth, storage, ram, etc as needed
16:48<Nivex>Fieldy: the extras are priced such that going to the next plan is often more desirable
16:50<tjfontaine>for everyone involved
16:50<Fieldy>well, do whatever
16:51<Fieldy>at some point, shaddap and do it :)
16:52<BarkerJr>IPs should be free with larger plans
16:55<avenj>is free with larger plans? sweet deal
16:55<Nivex>IPv6 should be deployed so that's not a problem anymore
16:55<avenj>I've been missing out
16:56<Keith>Weird. My node in the Linode manager shows me 1 day uptime when I know it's only been up for about 4 hours or so. Also made sure the timezone was set properly on the "My Profile" section.
16:56<Keith>Any ideas what's goign on there?
16:57<@jed>it might round
16:59<@jed>right round like a record baby right round round round
17:00<tjfontaine>curtosey Yaakov
17:00<@jed>not critiquing but courteous. why four? bahamut did six.
17:00<@jed>heh, curious
17:01<disinpho>is there a way to map backspace to ^h in console, serverside
17:01<tjfontaine>after playing with QUOTE oftc-hybrid does 4 apparently
17:01<tjfontaine>disinpho: just use screen, it will do the right thing
17:01<tjfontaine>but yes there is, but fix your terminal :)
17:02<tjfontaine>disinpho: all you wanted to never know
17:03<tjfontaine>stty erase '^h'
17:03<tjfontaine>executive summary
17:05<disinpho>tjfontaine: thanks
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17:15<georgekato>Hello World
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17:18<@jed>is there a firmware upgrade for humans?
17:18<@Perihelion>There should be
17:18<@jed>my eyes have a couple reproducible bugs
17:20<nick125>Accessing the Web
17:20<nick125>Communications (Email, IM)
17:20<nick125>Office Tools
17:20<nick125>erm, wtf?
17:20<nick125>I wonder what patch number we're on
17:20<BarkerJr>it's the guys in the aisle seats who always get killed by falling luggage
17:21*nick125 disables touchpad
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17:28<linbot>New news from forums: Linoded compromised for "Outbound DoS" - Need to R in Linux Networking <>
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17:32<dominikh>virtualmin and webmin, at least that explains how someone hijacked the box :P
17:32<Fieldy>no doubt
17:32<Fieldy>staying away from that one.
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17:48<superdug>so can we host non-wiki-leaks related classified documents in our linodes then
17:48*superdug ducks
17:50<tjfontaine>superdug: I have this pit of fire I'd like you to jump in
17:50<superdug>tjfontaine: weeeeeee
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17:51<BarkerJr>I store classified documents on my linode all the time
17:52<hobs>like government classified?
17:52<hobs>and not released ones
17:52<superdug>no like, hiding things in his buttocks, classified
17:52<BarkerJr>no, personally classified
17:52<BarkerJr>yeah :)
17:53<hobs>well then the government wont care
17:53<superdug>you should all know, I'm playing angry birds on my iphone at the moment
17:53<BarkerJr>all the php code behind my websites is classified as confidential and trade secrets which would would damage my intelectual property rights if made public
17:54<tjfontaine>or just damange your intellec
17:55<BarkerJr>I've already done that enough in the past couple days
17:55<superdug>isit wrong that when I Watch the new star trek I can't get over the enterprise being piloted by Harold and the kid from Alpha Dog
17:55<BarkerJr>what new star trek?
17:56<superdug>JJAbrhams new
17:56<waltman>superdug: Not at all. What's wrong is that the Enterprise IS being piloted by Harold and the kid from Alpha Dog.
17:56<BarkerJr>oh, the movie?
17:56<waltman>there were many things wrong with that movie
17:56<superdug>ohhh c'mon it was a good reboot
17:57<@jed>oh boy!
17:57<BarkerJr>it's streaming on netflix
17:57<BarkerJr>it is one of the best movies ever made
17:57<waltman>It had plotholes you could pilot a Borg Cube through.
17:57<straterra>Lord of the Rings is on Netflix
17:57<BarkerJr>it's the extended lotr, with the extra scenes
17:57<straterra>I only managed to fall asleep 3 times this time and actually made myself watch it to the end
17:58<BarkerJr>I plan on watching it in jan/feb
17:58<superdug>straterra: isn't it like 11 hours when it's all said and done?
17:58<straterra>superdug: I dunno..I just watched the first one
17:58<straterra>It was almost 3 hours exactly
17:58<superdug>you sure that was the extended edition?
17:59<waltman>more like an entire month if you watch all the extras on the dvds.
17:59<superdug>waltman: you're just mad there wasn't an intergalatic conference on the lawfulness of some territory dispute
17:59<BarkerJr>11.3 hours for all three
17:59<straterra>superdug: I'm not sure..but I didn't make the claim :P
18:00<straterra>LOTR is an interesting story..but the way its told (in the movies) just don't hold my attention
18:01<waltman>superdug: That, and the fact that the Romulans didn't just go back to Romulus and warn them.
18:01<tjfontaine>thank you all for being classic geeks
18:01<waltman>also, wtf is red matter?
18:01-!-loxs [~loxs@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:01<superdug>it was pretty fucking obvious
18:01<superdug>red matter makes black holes
18:02<waltman>I'll tell you what it was -- balonium.
18:02<@jed>oh boy!
18:02<superdug>that took a while
18:02*jed puts feet up
18:02<superdug>star trek > star wars
18:02<waltman>I didn't bring up star wars
18:02<superdug>you didn't have to
18:03<waltman>I think the trek reboot sucks on its own merits
18:03<superdug>and to end this debate once and for all
18:03<superdug>greatest hacker movie ... sneakers
18:03<tjfontaine>itym: hack the gibson
18:03<waltman>no! ID4!
18:03<waltman>aka independence day
18:03<superdug>ID4 was amazing
18:03<superdug>not amazing enough
18:04<waltman>the great thing about ID4 was counting up all the other films it stole from
18:04<superdug>oh if anyone was thinking they might think that the new movie Skyline seems like a good movie to watch, punch yourself in the nuts, and then don't watch it
18:04<@jed>I read a bunch of the plot holes after the movie came out, and almost all of them were people complaining about inconsistencies with the original
18:04<superdug>jed: too generic ... lulz
18:04<tjfontaine>you mean TDTESS?
18:04<waltman>e.g. the president's big speach before they go into the final battle is basically Henry V's speech before the battle of Agincort.
18:05<superdug>shoulda just used the schwartz
18:05<waltman>just s/St. Crispin's/Independence/
18:06<superdug>JAM! .... LONESTAR!!!!
18:06<pwnguin>i think sparkfun cut me off =/
18:06<Boohemian>i am trying to see the tables inside virtual_domains inside the "mailserver" db, i typed 'SHOW virtual_domains' but it didn't work - any ideas?
18:06<superdug>the hobbiest ardrunio and microprocessor site/store ?
18:06<Boohemian>i got this error: ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'virtual_domains' at line 1
18:07<Boohemian>i guess i should do a select instead
18:07<marius>Boohemian, MySQL?
18:07<pwnguin>superdug: yea. i wrote a script to monitor their employment page
18:07<marius>"describe virtual_domains" would show the structure
18:07<superdug>pwnguin: you want to go work for them?
18:07<Boohemian>marius: yes
18:08<pwnguin>wget -nv --referer= -N
18:08<pwnguin>2010-12-05 17:08:02 ERROR 404: Not Found
18:08<pwnguin>superdug: maybe. i interviewed with them a couple of months ago
18:08<pwnguin>didnt get the job
18:08<superdug>pwnguin: my company does business with them ... they're an interesting place
18:09<marius>I'm not sure of the structure, so I can't really say what the query to grab the domains is :P
18:09<marius>but "select" is the query type you are looking for
18:10<pwnguin>superdug: boulder's pretty damn expensive to live in though
18:10<superdug>pwnguin: but weeds legal and it's not as bad as california
18:10<superdug>IE: still got the important things
18:11<pwnguin>problem is, they seem to be pay kansas wages
18:11<superdug>they got bigger than they thought they were going to
18:11<superdug>pwnguin: yeah, but I bet after a year they'd get you back to a nice wage
18:11<pwnguin>im still not sure where the hell they get orders from
18:11-!-jtymes [~j.tymes@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:12<pwnguin>superdug: i doubt it.
18:12<pwnguin>they're hiring EEs for 50k
18:12<superdug>pwnguin: everyone ... they sorta fill lots of ninche's ... but they're pretty much the go-to ardrunio supplier
18:12<pwnguin>id need like 80k to live in boulder =/
18:13<superdug>pwnguin: get an EE for $50k, find out if he's got the salt to work there ... then up it by $12k for the next 3 years
18:13-!-ariel [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:13<pwnguin>superdug: im just gonna say, i doubt that kinda raise is in the contract
18:14<superdug>pwnguin: I can tell you for sure its not, but you gotta make sure it's worth it ... so you gotta put some time in at a place like that
18:14<superdug>just saying, thats the kind of place where you won't get bored
18:14<pwnguin>i work for a university
18:14<superdug>sometimes thats worth a pay cut
18:14<pwnguin>plenty of stuff going on here
18:15<superdug>apparently not
18:15<pwnguin>my last job on campus used them as a supplier
18:16-!-uNF [~tim@] has joined #linode
18:17<pwnguin>anyways, i like to keep my options open, and informed, but for some reason wget is returning a 404 on their jobs page
18:18-!-uNF [~tim@] has left #linode []
18:18<superdug>oh yeah I found a place where I can host my wikileaks mirror
18:18<tjfontaine>good, good bye
18:18<superdug>omg, I'm not leaving :-(
18:18<superdug>you're so mean
18:19<tjfontaine>you keep talking about the same thing
18:19<tjfontaine>can you please move on
18:20<superdug>tjfontaine: you should play angry birds
18:21<marius>For a moment there, I thought tjfontaine HATED wikileaks
18:21<marius>Asange is actually kinda badass in one way
18:22<marius>Also, would Girocco be what I'm looking for when I want to set up my own repo for handeling projects, and then ahving the ability to push a project to a remote production location ocne I deem it ready?
18:23<marius>I was told what to use at one point, but that was last week and I lost the link and just now had time
18:25-!-MarkJ [] has joined #linode
18:26<Tiven>why not host wikileaks mirror on linode :D
18:27<BarkerJr>linode's policy is no wikileaks
18:27<tjfontaine>you want an akill?
18:29<Boohemian>how do i go to the last line in vim?
18:29<Boohemian>it says with action L
18:29<tyler_>what just went down
18:29<Boohemian>but when i type :L it doesn't work
18:30<tyler_>looks like freemont went down?
18:30<tyler_>can anyone confirm
18:30*stitch grabs popcorn
18:30<stitch>but yeah guys
18:30<stitch>if linode wanted to operate a wikileaks mirror
18:30<stitch>i'm sure they would have by now
18:30-!-Hogggs [~Hoggs@] has joined #linode
18:30<marius>Actually, you don't want ot host it on linode becausei t's under pretty much constant DDoS
18:30<marius>most likely issued by government institutions
18:30<stitch>marius: ding ding ding :D
18:30<Tiven>haha indeed
18:30<nDuff>Boohemian, I tend to use G
18:30<stitch>amazon gave them the boot
18:30<stitch>because they couldn't sell books and shit
18:30-!-snobby [] has joined #linode
18:30<stitch>thanks to wikileaks
18:30<BarkerJr>fremont just hickuped
18:30<tjfontaine>hmm charm issue
18:30<Tiven>stitch correction: books about seducing kids?
18:30<nDuff>Boohemian, you want an ex command, not a motion?
18:30<BarkerJr>tyler_: seems up again
18:30<marius>I love how that one US congressman claims victory for shutting down wikileaks after amazon booted them
18:31*nDuff notes in Boohemian's direction that there's a #vim on freenode
18:31<marius>That amused me
18:31<BarkerJr>he's the independant senator from connecticut
18:31<marius>When amazon and WL both confirm / take responsibility, respectively, for violating the ToS
18:31<Boohemian>nDuff: i don't know, i just want to get to the last line... i use nano, but i can't get to the last line in a 22k line file in nano either
18:31<straterra>GG will take you to the last line in vim
18:31<straterra>Well..its either GG or gg
18:31<straterra>One takes you to the top, the other the bottom
18:32<Boohemian>wikileaks is down? i thought they had a webhost in sweden? i figured amazon just hosted some of the files???
18:32<marius>WL isn't down
18:32<marius>far form it, they have a new thing going
18:32<Boohemian>it won't load for me right now?
18:32<Boohemian>just spinning
18:32<marius>EVERYONE can become a WL mirror now
18:32<BarkerJr>they move to a .ch tld
18:32<marius>there's a ssytem on their site, you give them rsync access with SSH keys and shit, and they push everything
18:32<Boohemian>straterra: what am i doing wrong, i type :GG and i get "E492: Not an editor command: GG"??
18:32<nDuff>Boohemian, when I say G, I don't mean :G, I mean just type G
18:32<straterra>They have a new domain
18:32<straterra>Boohemian: not :
18:32<marius>and it auto-tweets to twitter when your mirror is up etc
18:33<straterra>just GG or gg
18:33<marius>it's rather epic
18:33<Boohemian>ah, thanks
18:33<tyler_>im tired of hearing about wikileaks
18:33<BarkerJr>tyler_: maybe someone setup a wl mirror in fremont which took down the entire DC with a ddos
18:33<G>Boohemian: what about me?
18:33<Boohemian>why did they have to move tld's? amazon owned the domain name? just update to the new server ip from
18:33<BarkerJr>see? wl is on-topic
18:33<G>I mean...
18:33<marius>basically search twitter for "imwikileaks"
18:33<G>nDuff: what abotu me?
18:34<BarkerJr>Boohemian: paypal, amazon, and easydns all terminated wl
18:34<Boohemian>so they can't keep
18:35<BarkerJr>they still own it, but no-one is willing to host the dns server for them due to ddos
18:35<marius> <-- The mirroring thing
18:35<Boohemian>it's amazing julian hasn't been arrested yet. i really wonder why. or had an "accident"
18:35<BarkerJr>some idiot government is ddosing whatever dns servers host the .org site
18:35-!-snubby [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:40<BarkerJr>Boohemian: read up on his "insurance file"
18:40<straterra>Boohemian: IIRC, he has an INTERPOL warrant
18:40-!-A-KO^ [] has joined #linode
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18:40<nDuff>Boohemian, we were discussion movement commands in vim
18:40<marius>Boohemian, many high up people have already made remarks that he needs ot be liquidated
18:40<marius>and there's a warrant on him with interpol but the swedes failed to write it properly
18:40-!-tyler__ [] has joined #linode
18:40<BarkerJr>it's not an arrest warrant, he's just wanted for questioning
18:40<marius>NSY stated they know Assanges location, but cannot move before a proper warrant is issued
18:40<tyler__>fremont is down again
18:40<marius>BarkerJr,'s an arrest warrant for rape in sweden
18:40<tyler__>can we get a real provider in there
18:40<tyler__>for christ sakes
18:40<BarkerJr>tyler_: I guess the other was just a warning
18:40<marius>But that's a bit odd, and aparently the woman claiming he raped her has been known for a long range of rape accusations
18:40-!-elsig [] has joined #linode
18:40<aaronpk>tyler__: I thought it was just me
18:40-!-synapt [] has quit [Quit: Moo]
18:40<BarkerJr>marius: you sure ou aren't thinking of the old warrant from a month ago that got dropped?
18:40-!-troy [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:40<tyler__>This is exactly why offers bandwidth at $2/Mbit
18:40<tyler__>because they suck ass.
18:40<marius>BarkerJr: yup
18:40<Luizg_>any just lose connectivity to fremont?
18:40-!-groulder [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:40<straterra>HE is a real provider..
18:40<marius>and aparently a bunch of other women jumped the bandwagon, which is why it went to interpol
18:40<eric_nw1>Luizg_: yes
18:40<Luizg_>jesus christ..
18:40<marius>he's now wanted for rape, kidnapping and attempted rape
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18:40<tyler__>straterra, yes.. I'm sorry for being wrong. A real provider goes down twice due to power outages and 3 network outages in less then a month.
18:40<Luizg_>ok, looks like its back now
18:40<tyler__>Every provider does that.
18:40<tjfontaine>whoops there it goes
18:40-!-troy [] has joined #linode
18:40<BarkerJr>fremont is up again
18:40-!-zero [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:40-!-zero [] has joined #linode
18:40<straterra>tyler__: Every provider has the potential for that
18:40<tyler__>Of course it does, but it doesn't
18:40<marius>shit happens, you got reimbursed for the downtime, did you not?
18:40<Luizg_>getting close to being credited for downtime now
18:40<straterra>Unless there are serious issues..which I'm assuming there are
18:40-!-groulder [] has joined #linode
18:40<marius>If there are issues;
18:40<Nivex>marius: link plz
18:40<Nivex>marius: re assange
18:40<tyler__>Hm, I didn't get reimbursed for any downtime
18:40-!-vinic [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:40<BarkerJr>I want
18:40-!-vinic [] has joined #linode
18:40<tyler__>that I know of.
18:40-!-rayvd [] has joined #linode
18:40<tyler__>Linode support says 'fremont is not having any issues'
18:40<straterra>Maybe you didn't ask for it..or go past their stated SLA
18:40<marius>Did you MTR?
18:41-!-tyler_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:41<marius>norwegian news sites are horrible to search through the archive, if it didn't happen today, there's no chance in hell of finding it
18:41<tjfontaine>{MoranServ} had -49 connections in 30 seconds (total clients: 468; threshold: |10|)
18:41<tjfontaine>mwalling disagrees
18:41<tyler__>Can someone else besides me complain about fremont
18:41<tyler__>so they take the issue seriously? :)
18:41<aaronpk>I'll complain
18:41<aaronpk>it's been pretty bad lately
18:41<BarkerJr>it looks fine now
18:42<straterra>They do take it seriously..
18:42<aaronpk>i'm this close to moving everything to new jersey
18:42<straterra>Read the status page on the RFO
18:42<aaronpk>but that would take like a week
18:42<tjfontaine>well all I can confirm is that there was a network hiccup
18:42<aaronpk>yea it's back for me now
18:42<tyler__>Tell Amanda Folson that
18:42<marius>my freemont node is fine
18:42-!-A-KO [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:42<tyler__>It's back up, marius
18:42<marius>well, then what's the problem o_O
18:43<tyler__>went down twice within the last 20 minutes
18:43<tyler__>that's the problem.
18:43-!-A-KO^ is now known as A-KO
18:43<marius>I don't even see a hiccup
18:43<tyler__>How do you monitor your VS?
18:43<tjfontaine>it's more than likely a routing issue
18:43<iggy>I've been connected to mine for the entire day without issue
18:43-!-tyler__ is now known as tyleR_
18:43<marius>the lazy way
18:43-!-tyleR_ is now known as tyler_
18:43<@jed>tyler__: your ticket doesn't say there aren't any issues, it says we're not aware of any
18:43<marius>if it ain't on my graph, it didn't happen
18:43<tjfontaine>the fremont oftc leaf never disconnected but was unreachable for a given period
18:43<@jed>I am looking into it, relax
18:44<tyler_>thanks jed.
18:44<tyler_>I love you
18:44<marius>(which is why I loved how when I was DDoS'ed once, and it suddenly disapeared off my graphs, I acted like it neverh appened :P)
18:46<dcraig>the network in fremont seems a little sporadic
18:47-!-mookie [] has joined #linode
18:47<Boohemian>straterra: yeah, but everyone knows where he is, so what's waiting to arrest him?
18:47<Boohemian>BarkerJr: sure, i've heard of that - but really, what could it be? i guess no one wants to take that chance, but it seems his best contact was someone with a SECRET clearance and he's releasing what he has now
18:47<straterra>I dunno..he prolly has some insurnace
18:49-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:55<marius>So funny news from my region
18:55<marius>a firetruck lost it's license plates
18:55<marius>because they failed to bring it in for routine checkups...4 years ago xD
18:55<marius>it was randomly discovered during a traffic control
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19:20<Odious>Do I need to setup ip6tables seperately from iptables? Or do I only need it if I'm using ipv6 source/destination IPs in my chains?
19:23-!-DesertPanther_ [~Khalid@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:23<Odious>Nevermind, I found something. (
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19:50<superdug>can I use my linode to run a minecraft server?
19:51-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has quit []
19:51<encode> sure, but you'll run out of ram pretty quickly
19:51<superdug>okay, that's not right
19:51-!-blognewb_ [~blognewb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:52<superdug>that game is a horrible game, and should be banned
19:53<Odious>RAM isn't shared on Xen?
19:53-!-Miranas [] has joined #linode
19:53<encode>huh? why would you ask about running a server for a game you think is horrible?
19:54<tacticus>encode: because it is horribly addictive and really evil
19:54<tacticus>especially when i have work to do
19:59<Peng>superdug: Yes, you can run Minecraft on Linode. There is even a Stack Script and a guide or two. It's recommended to run it on at least a 1024.
20:00-!-kainz [] has joined #linode
20:04<BarkerJr>what's the point of minecraft?
20:04-!-MarkJ [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20:04<tjfontaine>what's the point of living
20:04<Yaakov>I am.
20:04<BarkerJr>there is none. that's why I don't have a life
20:04-!-zachary [] has joined #linode
20:05<BarkerJr>I just sit at home in front of the computer and chat with girls like HoopyCat
20:05-!-MarkJ [] has joined #linode
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20:08<xiven>How many companies offer linode vps management as a service?
20:08<xiven>Is that a firm number?
20:10<bob2>it's a COMPANY NUMBER
20:10<bob2>ho ho ho
20:11<bob2>I don't think there is any sort of list
20:13-!-zachary [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:14<xiven>I just meant was it a real number or just something you said. I knew there probably wasn't a list - I'm interested in offering services related to Linode VPS's, I'm doing a little research first to see if I would be drowned in competition.
20:17<xiven>Given your response, I'll guess there isn't much information to answer the question. But, thanks for responding anyway.
20:17-!-mathew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20:18<Peng>That was quick.
20:18-!-snobby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
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20:51<encode>i own infinitely many companies that offer services related to linode
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20:52<jtc>hello, what's a good command line tool to check disk io?
20:53<Peng>jtc: vmstat? iotop for more info
20:53<@pparadis>vmstat / iostat / iotop
20:53<Peng>jtc: That is, vmstat gives you basic counters. iotop is like top, but for I/O.
20:53<jtc>ah great!
20:53-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
20:54<jtc>what about iostat?
20:54<@pparadis>jtc: also, "free -m" can be useful information to see if you're swap thrashing.
20:54<jtc>i used vmstat, but not the other two. More details would help
20:54<@pparadis>try them :)
20:54<jtc>yes, have been using free -m as well
20:54<jtc>hey pparadis!
20:55<jtc>how's going?
20:55<encode>i prefer $10 -m
20:55<encode>free is just too.. free
20:55<@pparadis>encode: like urmom
20:55<encode>exactly like my mom
20:55<encode>she has swap, buffers, and cache
20:55<jtc>ok let me try those
20:55<jtc>btw, iotop is not on ubuntu by default?
20:55<@pparadis>install it :)
20:56<stinebd>is she io-bound as well?
20:56<encode>stinebd: only when pparadis is around
20:56<@pparadis>jtc: "apt-get update && apt-get install iotop"
20:56-!-ivor [] has joined #linode
20:56<encode>pparadis: + sudo, because no-one should be running as root :)
20:56<@pparadis>encode: sudo is useless: )
20:56<@pparadis>:) even
20:57<jtc>thanks pparadis!
20:57<encode>sudo take that back
20:57<@pparadis>even dangerous in some cases
20:57<@pparadis>encode: i lolz at sudo, no kidding.
20:57-!-ivor [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:58<linbot>New news from forums: Moving a High Traffic Wordpress Blog from MediaTemple in Performance and Tuning <>
21:01<jtc>is there a way to freeze the iotop output?
21:05<@caker>quit it?
21:05<@caker>control-s, control-q ?
21:06<jtc>when i quit using 'q' the iotop screen is erased and back to commandline
21:07-!-ariel [] has joined #linode
21:07<@caker>use control-s then
21:07<@pparadis>the ctrl+s, ctrl+q combo works for me :)
21:09<jtc>that worked caker and ppar
21:09-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:09*encode sends urmom a control-s
21:13-!-ivor [] has joined #linode
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21:44<quanin>really quick, and probably stupid question. roommate wants to set up an account for himself, but we need to use my creditcard. does Linode still allow that?
21:47<encode>not sure; buy you could buy another linode on your account, and create a new account with full rights for your roommate
21:48-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
21:48<@pparadis>quanin: you could also add a linode to your account for your roommate, and limit his access to just that linode.
21:48<Gnewt>Not exactly Linode-related, but does anybody know Greasemonkey? How do I add a function to a page in global scope? There's a link that hrefs to "javascript:foo('bar)'". In my script I wrote " = function(text) { ... };", but in Firebug I see foo not defined when I try to call it with the link.
21:50<encode>pparadis: that's what I was trying to say
21:50<@pparadis>encode: <3
21:50<quanin>he's eventually going to want to pay for the thing on his own though. if i create it on my account, will he be able to eventually shove his own creditcard at the thing in place of mine?
21:50-!-BarkerJr [BarkerJr@2002:1893:7426:1:458e:3cfc:8e50:ba98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:51<encode>I expect that would involve submitting a ticket, and waiting a few minutes
21:51<@pparadis>quanin: when he's ready to pay on his own, he can establish his own account and his linode can be switched over to it from your account. would just require a support ticket from both accounts at that time to confirm the switch.
21:52-!-CompWizrd [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:52<BarkerJr>comcast dns servers seem messed up tonight
21:52<@pparadis>s/tonight/many nights/ ;)
21:52<avenj>yeah lots of folks saying they're having problems
21:52<quanin>alrighty. thank you.
21:52-!-CompWizrd [] has joined #linode
21:52-!-quanin [~james@] has quit []
21:53<encode>most nights, all nights, every night
21:53<avenj>my policy is: never use my isp-provided nameservers
21:53<avenj>except linode's of course
21:53<encode>could also be valid replacement patterns
21:53<BarkerJr>I can't get to
21:53<@pparadis>BarkerJr: that's why i run dnsmasq in a KVM instances on my LAN.
21:53*encode runs a DNS root server, just for himself
21:53<@pparadis>also makes LAN stuff much easier having a local server.
21:53<avenj>I just run BIND on my ipad.
21:54<@pparadis>dnsmasq really is awesome.
21:56<avenj>yeah, I actually run dnsmasq also
21:56<avenj>...and not on my ipad
21:56<@pparadis>that would be trbl
21:56<tofupup>i just use the dnsmasq integrated in ddwrt
21:57-!-allen [] has joined #linode
21:57<Peng>I don't like DNSMasq. It can do strange things.
21:57<avenj>what kind of strange things?
21:57-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #linode
21:57<Peng>I don't remember. :\ Which sucks, since other people not remembering is exactly why I ignored them and used it in the first place!
21:57<Peng>Umm. Something to do with caching and CNAMEs.
21:57<HoopyCat>apparently, a telephone pole fell over some 20 miles south of here a week or so ago, knocking out DNS service for entire buttloads of my ISP's customers
21:57-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit []
21:58<Peng>Plus it makes the contents of /etc/hosts FQDNs.
21:58<avenj>Peng: not if you don't want it to
21:58<tofupup>how's that work, your ISP only has one dns server?
21:58<HoopyCat>given how out-of-the-way that town is, my first thought is "why in the hell..."
21:58-!-CartoonCat [~Nope@] has joined #linode
21:58<avenj>Peng: I have /etc/dnsmasq.hosts and /etc/dnsmasq.resolv
21:58<HoopyCat>i didn't research it too heavily, of course, since i don't use their nameserver(s)
21:59<tofupup>just weird that it would only knock out their DNS and not all of their access
21:59<Peng>avenj: Hmm, set no-hosts? I don't really use DNSMasq anymore, but that should do it.
21:59<HoopyCat>tofupup: it is possible that it was between here and where their DNS, web, mail, etc servers are, and not between here and the internet, but noone actually uses their web/mail stuff
21:59<avenj>Peng: yep
21:59<HoopyCat>i dunno, i wasn't home at the time
22:00<Peng>Hmm. I don't remember what the CNAME thing was, but it had to do with cache poisoning, such as OpenDNS and
22:00<@pparadis>tofupup: what region are you in?
22:00<CartoonCat>Hello. I am thinking of using Linode services. I have heard that the uptime/stability of the Fremont DC is less so then the rest. any truth or was it just a few peoples bad experiances?
22:01<Peng>CartoonCat: It's not true. Fremont just happens to be the DC which has most recently been victim of a spectacular outage.
22:01<tofupup>pparadis: austin, tx
22:01<avenj>I maintained net-dns/dnsmasq in portage 2003-2006 and never saw too much CNAME weirdness, it will do something maybe slightly unexpected if you're trying to 'shadow' an address referred to by a cname but by design (won't shadow cname target)
22:01<avenj>anyway, it works
22:01<Peng>CartoonCat: All of Linode's data centers are very reliable, and all data centers occasionally have spectacular outages.
22:01<@pparadis>CartoonCat: thanks for your interest in our services! fremont has had some issues lately, but all DCs are prone to issues every now and again (harware and networks aren't perfect).
22:01<amitz>CartoonCat: different time of the year gives different answer. People always remember the most recent event ;-)
22:01-!-joeDeuce [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:02<Peng>avenj: I'm not sure what you mean by "shadow", but that might be it.
22:02<CartoonCat>Peng: spectacular how so?
22:02-!-allen [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:02<@pparadis>CartoonCat: what we focus on is quickly identifying issues when they do occur and doing our absolute best to inform our customers and remedy the situation.
22:02-!-joeDeuce [] has joined #linode
22:03<CartoonCat>pparadis: seams a few didnt get the message =) and yes i know DC's have issues some times. I got bit by that power room issue a few years back, both pri and sec servers were in the same DC, DOH.
22:03<Peng>CartoonCat: Why does it matter? In this case, there was a short power failure, and some UPSes failed, thus some servers (including Linode's) lost power and were rebooted. And then it happened again a few days later.
22:03<avenj>Peng: normally if upstream ns says 'a.b.c.d is' but dnsmasq's hosts file says a.b.c.d is it'll go with hosts, which is expected behavior, but if a.b.c.d is a CNAME and you don't have a hosts entry for the CNAME target it'll rely on upstream
22:03<avenj>last i knew anyway
22:03<Peng>What's the point of DNSMasq's /etc/hosts feature? So it can be used as an authoritative+recursive server in LANs and such?
22:03<Peng>avenj: I see.
22:04<@pparadis>CartoonCat: yeah, gotcha. for folks who have "mission critical" stuff, we always recommend investing in HA setups both in the DC and also potentially balancing across multiple DCs for extra safety.
22:04<CartoonCat>Peng: why does it matter? because I wanted to know. Its the closest DC to my area so its the likely one to be used. Its jsut for a 3rd teir backup for my AAAA but I want ot know what to expect
22:04<amitz>DNS, a distributed phonebook system.
22:05<avenj>Peng: yep, makes for a cheap+easy LAN ns that can also resolve local hostnames
22:05<@pparadis>CartoonCat: more details here -->
22:06<CartoonCat>pparadis: yea, Ive got the local server and a off site one. the main issue is that if my AAAA has to use the off sites then it takes a comparibly long time for people to login, and boy some people get uppity if it takes a extra 20 seconds to get their facebook
22:06<dcraig>what's an AAAA?
22:06<dcraig>aside from a DNS record
22:07<amitz>a battery.
22:07<dcraig>must be tiny
22:07<CartoonCat>authentication, authorization, accounting and addressing
22:07<dcraig>oh wow
22:07<amitz>indeed :-p
22:07<@pparadis>dcraig: baseball?
22:07<HoopyCat>i usually operate under the theory that, following a significant-enough outage, considerable undertakings will be undertaken to prevent it from happening again
22:08<dcraig>so stick with fremont, where there will never be another outage ;)
22:08<tofupup>hoopycat: you obviously don't work for my boss
22:08*HoopyCat recommends BUY on fremont
22:08<HoopyCat>hold newark, sell atlanta, short urmom
22:08<amitz>dcraig: yes, the statistic favors us at the moment! :))
22:08<@stan_theman>HoopyCat likes them short
22:08<@pparadis>avg analyst rec: see HoopyCat for the straight dope
22:08<hobs>what about dallas
22:08<@pparadis>stan_theman: but with high load
22:08<linbot>Peng: Fremont512 - 123, Fremont768 - 68, Fremont1024 - 27, Fremont1536 - 13, Fremont2048 - 9, Fremont4096 - 4, Fremont8192 - 4, Fremont12288 - 3, Fremont16384 - 2, Fremont20480 - 1
22:09<HoopyCat>hobs: i don't do dallas
22:09<dcraig>dallas has gone soft
22:09<hobs>well, let me call debby
22:09<amitz>reminds me to gambler's fallacy.
22:09<tofupup>or at least a fluffer
22:09<@pparadis>dallas needs a fluffer
22:10-!-MetaCosm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:11<CartoonCat>is there a test ip i can use to check the path to the fremont dc ??
22:11-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
22:11<linbot>New earnings report from London: Net income of $.56 per diluted Linode vs. $.53 per diluted Linode for prior year quarter (5.7% increase in diluted earnings per Linode)
22:11*dcraig dilutes his linode
22:12<HoopyCat>\o/ i'm rich!
22:12<bob2>HoopyCat: is that your work?
22:12*pparadis diluted urmom... by hitting her with his supersoaker.
22:12<HoopyCat>bob2: i don't work, my friend... i live
22:12<Peng>!f speed test
22:12<linbot>Peng: If you would like to test download speeds and ping times to the various Linode datacenters go to (44.721%)
22:12<Peng>There we go.
22:12<Peng>Wait, no. That's hte old URL.
22:12<@pparadis>that's outta date
22:13-!-Pyromancer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:13<@pparadis>linbot needs to sort his damn life out.
22:13*ariel licks heckman and runs off
22:13-!-gilaniali [] has quit [Quit: gilaniali]
22:13<linbot>pparadis: look who is talking, mr. can't-find-his-keys-because-they're-attached-to-his-pants
22:13<@pparadis>s/his/its/, whatever
22:14*pparadis engages in mortal kombat with linbot
22:14<@pparadis>cue the horible mortal kombat theme music
22:14<@pparadis>horrible, even
22:14<@pparadis>easily one of the worst movies of all time
22:15<HoopyCat>sorry, weather forecast came in
22:15-!-MarkJ [] has joined #linode
22:16<@stan_theman>mortal combat choir, in case anyone missed it:
22:16-!-BarkJr [] has joined #linode
22:17<HoopyCat>* ACCUMULATIONS...12 TO 20 INCHES.
22:17-!-allen [] has joined #linode
22:17<HoopyCat>that's what i get for mocking buffalo :-/
22:17<@pparadis> <-- stan_theman is on the left.
22:17-!-allen5 [] has joined #linode
22:18<allen5>can someone point me in the right direction re: email? i have 2 linodes, one will be a webserver and the other is for misc. tasks. i have email set up at google apps, but my webserver needs to be able to send user registration etc. probably beyond google's 500/day limit. i installed postfix on the misc. server, but I'm not sure how to configure it to send mail from my other linode.
22:18<@pparadis>allen5: what distro are you using?
22:18<allen5>ubuntu 10.04
22:18<@pparadis>you need to allow relaying from the other linode in that config, but why not just send the reg emails from that linode with exim in a send-only config?
22:19<@pparadis>!library exim
22:19<linbot>pparadis: 1. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 2. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) ( - 3. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Debian 5 (Lenny) (
22:19<@pparadis>it's quite lightweight, takes about 30 seconds to install and configure, done.
22:19<allen5>ahh .. is exim pretty decent compared to postfix?
22:20<allen5>sounds like something i should try
22:20-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #linode
22:20<@pparadis>i use it on two linodes.
22:20<@pparadis>works just fine.
22:20<allen5>allright, i'll try that. thanks :)
22:20<@pparadis>yw :)
22:21<allen5>1 more dumb question: all i have to do to get rid of postfix is $apt-get remove postfix right?
22:21<@pparadis>yup, you can purge it if you want.
22:22-!-allen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:26<bob2>installing exim will force it out anyway
22:27<@pparadis>hm, i'm note certain about that.
22:27<@pparadis>not, rather
22:28<@pparadis>most distros will happily let you install multiple HTTP servers, for example, even thought they're going to conflict port-wise in their default configs.
22:28<@pparadis>"zomg i thought i had apache and what is this"
22:28<bob2>in debian mail-transfer-agent isn't liek that, though, since they all provide /usr/sbin/sendmail
22:28<@pparadis>good point about that
22:29<G>additionally w/ Apache running, the nginx package install will fail
22:29<G>well running on port 80 anyway
22:29<@pparadis>i wonder if there's any order or combo of MTAs that wouldn't be disallowed, such as one that just elects to say "okay, i'll ignore things a and b and install anyhow"
22:30-!-mookie [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:30<@pparadis>G: last time i checked (i've got apache and nginx on a system), it didn't fail to install, it would just fail to start.
22:30<@pparadis>needs moar test iterations in various combos.
22:31<bob2>all the common ones Provide and Conflict with mail-transfer-agent
22:31<@pparadis>that's good, as i can't think of many cases where someone would truly want to run separate packages for that.
22:32<@pparadis>and by many, i mean "any" aside from testing or whatnot.
22:37-!-BarkerJr [BarkerJr@2002:1893:7426:1:458e:3cfc:8e50:ba98] has joined #linode
22:37<BarkerJr>that was painful setting up my local dns
22:38<BarkerJr>I had to sticky the DHCP for my linux PC here, then install bind, then configure my router to give out that linux box as DNS
22:39<ariel>fucking psychotic bitch she is
22:39<ariel>ignore that ^^
22:39*ariel runs away
22:39<BarkerJr>then the stupid router stopped routing ipv6, so I had to reboot it
22:40<HoopyCat>disregard that, i like cox
22:41-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:41<@pparadis>HoopyCat: dix
22:41-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
22:42<BarkerJr>so now my router gives out my linux pc and also the two ISP servers, so you'd hope at least one would work
22:48-!-_atula_ [] has joined #linode
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22:48<@pparadis>ooh, scattered flurries tomorrow, grand.
22:48-!-orieg [] has joined #linode
22:49<@pparadis>not to be confused with scatted furries.
22:52<amitz>furries on uh.. penisland?
22:52-!-Knight [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:52<dcraig>people are always making fun of my fursona
22:52<amitz>it rhymes with alice in wonderland...
22:55-!-jtymes [~j.tymes@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:08<@heckman>harder better faster stronger....
23:09<ariel>what she asked for
23:10<amitz>in some contexts, faster is not always better.
23:10<ariel>in his case.. it is.. rofl
23:11<@heckman>burn -_-
23:11<ariel>oh but you live for the abuse you get from me <3
23:12-!-mawolf [~mw@] has joined #linode
23:13<@heckman><3 brat
23:13<@stan_theman>if (roomIsAvailable) getOne();
23:14<ariel>i dont believe there is one open at the moment
23:14<ariel>just cover your eyes.
23:14*stan_theman hides
23:14<ariel>thats better
23:14<@heckman>ahaha, how was your weekend stan_theman?
23:15<@stan_theman>i wrote a paper all weekend :(
23:15<ariel>aww =[
23:15<ariel>how productive
23:15-!-jtymes [~j.tymes@] has joined #linode
23:15-!-dryice [] has joined #linode
23:15<@heckman>Ah yeah, I remember. Sucks man.
23:16-!-Knight [] has joined #linode
23:16<ariel>oh btw mr.heckman
23:16<ariel>my laptop wont play sound
23:16*tonyyarusso gets to write police reports for his class tonight - even less fun than papers
23:16<@stan_theman>oh man
23:17<@stan_theman>my heart goes out to you. i've been in this room since 1030 this morning
23:17-!-dryice_ [] has joined #linode
23:17<tonyyarusso>How this is making me more qualified to be a sysadmin I have no idea.
23:18<dryice_>so i rebooted my server and nginx doesn't start up on it's own. /etc/init.d/nginx start works.
23:18<dryice_>there's also links from /etc/rcX.d/... to /etc/init.d/nginx
23:18<dryice_>how do i troubleshoot this?
23:19<bob2>rcX is no use
23:19<bob2>do you mean "there is a link from /etc/rc2.d/SXXnginx to /etc/init.d/nginx"?
23:19<@stan_theman>tonyyarusso: now you know how to deal with the people that forward the 20 image cat email to everyone ;)
23:19<dryice_>bob2: yes that's what i meant.
23:20<tonyyarusso>stan_theman: I thought that was alias the spam boxes to their inbox?
23:20-!-dryice [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:20-!-dryice_ is now known as dryice
23:20<@stan_theman>damn, you must be in the honors program or something
23:20<dryice>this link exists: /etc/rc2.d/S20nginx -> ../init.d/nginx
23:22-!-goose [~goose@] has quit [Quit: God doesn't send firemen to hell; if he did, he knows we'd just put it out!]
23:24<dryice>strange - i restarted my server again and it works now.
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23:33<amitz>question i can google anyway but i'm lazy at the moment and #linode spoils me, how do app usually check if the latest rss/atom feed is the newest? is there a date to all entries? to every entry? or just feed comparison with the cached one?
23:34<bob2>each entry
23:34-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:34<bob2>you can send a query saying "have you modified this feed since NNNN"
23:34<bob2>but you still need to poll it (ie check it every now and then, you can't be notified of changes)
23:35<@pparadis>well-formed feeds should have datetime stamps for each entry.
23:35<amitz>oh, never realized about able to send a query if the feed has been modified, better than expected! thanks :-)
23:36<amitz>combined with datetime stamp for each entry, yay!
23:37<@pparadis>whenever i've created feeds for stuff, i've always made sure to check them with this -->
23:38-!-ariel [] has joined #linode
23:38<tonyyarusso>I think there's a timestamp for the feed itself too.
23:39<tonyyarusso>hmm, I guess just what's passed in the HTTP header, not the file itself.
23:39<@pparadis>yeah, the headers should have good "last-modified" info.
23:40<@pparadis>sometimes people jack that up wrt their web server config, though.
23:40<tonyyarusso>yeah - NOAA sets it to the time the request was fulfilled :S
23:41<@pparadis>for dynamic content passed straight to you, the last-modified header is always going to be the time of the request, though.
23:41<@pparadis>i just regenerate feeds whenever something actually changes.
23:42<@pparadis>so i don't have that problem :)
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23:49<Peng>Dynamic content can set the Last-Modified header to whatever it wants. Many web apps aren't very clever about it, but some are.
23:50<@pparadis>sure, but that means sending the header yourself, and a lot of apps don't.
23:50<@pparadis>so the web server sends "now"
23:50<purrdeta>ah OpenVPN is a complete pain :P
23:51<straterra>Not any more than any other encrypted tunnel
23:51<Peng>straterra: OpenSSH SOCKS is not a pain.
23:51<straterra>That's also a completely different product :P
23:51<Peng>pparadis: In that case, why does the web server add a Last-Modifed header at all? It doesn't have to, and not all do.
23:51<straterra>Well..different application for a problem
23:52<@pparadis>Peng: sure, not all do, but apache does from what i've seen.
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23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
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23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.44148898, 0.78079090) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17483 of 22249 (π ≈ 3.143152501236011 - 0.001559847646218)
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 06 00:00:17 2010