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#linode IRC Logs for 2010-12-14

---Logopened Tue Dec 14 00:00:25 2010
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00:05<jords>I'm trying to setup ipv6 with the HE tunnel, I've got quite confused, have run the ip commands (will set it up permanently once it's working), and i can ping6 an address. But I have no idea what my servers ipv6 ip is?
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00:06<mbreslin>you're following the tutorial?
00:07<blognewb>merry xmas
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00:07<jords>ok, got it worked out... It's just the inet6 addr in ipconfig, without the /64 on the end :)
00:07<mbreslin>blognewb: if you didn't fill yours with liquid tnt we wouldn't need that rule
00:08<jords>That's the default ip for the tunnel, but I can actually set my server to anything within the /64 block, right?
00:08<mbreslin>jords: right but make sure you get the right /64
00:08<kyhwana>jords: depends if they've routed the subnet to you
00:08<mbreslin>the 64 you can added (the routed subnet) isn't the same as the initial /64 you get
00:09<jords>ah yes i see
00:09<linbot>New news from forums: stream mp3 but protect against download? in General Discussion <>
00:09<mbreslin>the he page for your tunnel will have 2 /64's just make sure you are messing with the routed one
00:09<jords>my ip now is 2001:470:1f04:1641::2/64, my routed one is 2001:470:1f05:1641::/64
00:09<jords>so I can just take any ip in the routed subnet, right?
00:10<jords>how many addresses is a /64 anyway? 2^64?
00:10<bd_>jords: 2^(128-64), so yes, w^64
00:10<bd_>2^64 rather
00:10<mbreslin>it's a few
00:11<azar>I'm looking for a service that would help in securing a server, from deployment up. Any recommendations? I want deplyment+lamp+the general security, iptables setup, etc.
00:11<jords>yeah. That's a comically large number.
00:12<mbreslin>my question with ipv6 is won't everyone just overpvovision
00:12<mbreslin>since there seems to be so many
00:12<mbreslin>and we'll wind up with much less than we thought
00:13<jords>mbreslin, so, only like a billion ips for every person then? :)... I don't think we are going to have any issues until, maybe, we have a intergalactic network
00:13<mbreslin>i guess
00:14<mbreslin>the people that take large blocks now won't they try to take ginormous blocks with ipv6
00:15<@pparadis>mbreslin: i don't think you're thinking this through in terms of the sheer magnitude of devices you can address with ipv6...
00:16<mbreslin>i'm sure i'm wrong i just mean like large companies will try to own the same proportion of the space
00:16<mbreslin>i guess not though
00:16<@pparadis>the economic value of an individual ip goes to near zero.
00:17<@pparadis>why would companies care about having rights (not owning) the same proportion of ip space? given the massive number of addresses available, there simply isn't any point to it.
00:17<mbreslin>i guess as you said a single ip isn't really worth anything
00:18<mbreslin>so having a lot makes no difference
00:18<@pparadis>pretty much :)
00:19<@pparadis>i'm pretty sure that given the pace of things, by the time we need more address space than that, homo sapiens won't be the smartest entity on the planet.
00:20<@pparadis>to steal a term, if everything is made of computronium, we ain't doing most of the computing ;)
00:23<jords>sweet. I just did a ssh tunnel to my server, and can access ipv6 through it!
00:23<jords>not what I will be doing usually since I can just use the tunnel directly but still cool :)
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00:27-!-mode/#linode [+o jed] by ChanServ
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00:29<NiftyLettuce>sometimes I truly am a noob.
00:29<NiftyLettuce>add corresponding svn was right in "Add New Project"...
00:29<NiftyLettuce>pparadis: ended up using just apache2 for redmine
00:31<@pparadis>that's okay
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00:37*kevon waves to Peng
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00:40<@jed>I flipped the switch at 11:30
00:41<@jed>it went live on thenextweb about 90 minutes later
00:41<@jed>should have put adsense on it :/
00:42<hobot>zvit that the torrent
00:42<hobot>or what
00:42<hobot>oh nice jed
00:42<hobot>did you record every request as well to get their actual passwords
00:42<hobot>be super evil
00:42<@jed>it's in javascript
00:43<@jed>there was close to 200k passwords in the file itself, I didn't bother
00:43<hobot>youre a nice man anyway jed I would not think you did
00:43<@pparadis>"This data is not sent to my server, but instead is computed by your browser anonymously. I do not care who you are, and I'm not collecting any information from this."
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00:43<@jed>that's the difference between mine and slate
00:43<hobot>or if you did I would be like "well he's a nice man, maybe he will just read my emails and be really bored"
00:44<@jed>slate saw the article referencing my tool and rushed this out for the hits:
00:44*pparadis emails hobot's mom
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00:44<hobot>feel free
00:44<hobot>she knows all my peccadillos
00:44<hobot>not all
00:44<hobot>but that bad ones
00:44*pparadis makes a note to adjust hobot's showercam, the view is about 5 degrees off.
00:44<@jed>the problem with the slate widget is it ajax posts your e-mail in plaintext to their server
00:45<@jed>which is a hilarious move in the wake of a disclosure
00:45<@pparadis>that's, frankly... fucked up
00:45<hobot>more like 10
00:45<hobot>fuck those guys
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00:46<hobot>man do you think that is just stupidity or bad men
00:46<hobot>yeah that's just evil it cant be stupid
00:46<@pparadis>i vote stupidity, but that doesn't mean someone can't come along and say "oh wait, i could use this"
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01:00<qubits>hey $1 domains at godaddy, sweet!
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01:03<pmall>qubits: it's a trick... u buy 50 domains that u don't need and they are full price next yr for renewal ;)
01:03<NiftyLettuce>need I use htpasswd2 for apache2?
01:04<qubits>i know :(
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01:11<NiftyLettuce>figured it out :D
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01:26<linbot>amitz: Here is your priority Refill order #: 5690141
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01:53<MTecknology>gah! MySQL is just destroying my disk I/O
01:53<MTecknology>and CPU
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02:07<amitz>powerful mysql, can destroy cpu
02:07<linbot>amitz: lorinn@redacted 53% OFF on Pfizer!
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02:10<amitz>powerful drug, on discount
02:12<linbot>amitz: Pass interviews easily with the University diploma.
02:13<amitz>good job, set me for life.
02:17<linbot>amitz: crystal@redacted Pfizer -61% now
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02:19<MTecknology>26525 mysql 20 0 133m 26m 3168 S 77 5.3 3:34.77 mysqld
02:20<MTecknology>I have NO issue with the RAM it uses... just the CPU and Disk IO
02:21<iggy>look for full table scans
02:22<MTecknology>How do I do that?
02:23<iggy>don't remember exactly, I found a good page that had a bunch of tuning tips and it had the command to find out
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02:30<Guest917>check out/enable the slow query log
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03:42<graq>Holidays are coming!
03:43<czr>yes. more time to work on work projects without stupid interruptions
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03:47<czr>SpaceHobo, not really no. normally I'd visit mymum but she's in the states and I'm going there only later, so no. pros and cons really.
03:49<marius>czr; lucky bastard
03:49<amitz>marius: which part?
03:49<czr>last two xmases I spent in the middle of nowhere (middle of eastern finland), so I deserve some break :-)
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03:54<marius>amitz, the no family to bother you when you wnat to work on projects
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03:57<Ephialtes>linode <3
03:57<amitz>i don't feel like working these last 2 days...
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03:58<adamt>Does anybody else experience problems connecting to nodes in london? Even the ajax console is broken for me right now
03:59<amitz>i sometime suspect i'm somewhat bipolar but i guess i'm used to dealing with it.
03:59<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
03:59<linbot>adamt: (mtrlondon <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "web title$1".
04:00<czr>amitz, I've had some weird issues with chromium connecting to a webserver running in london. although might be a problem in chromium
04:00<czr>(past 2-3 days or so)
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04:01<amitz>oh.. the internet is never healthy.
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04:01<amitz>100% healthy
04:02<czr>yeah, but this is different.
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04:03<marius>I'm on my london node as we speak
04:03<marius>I'm speaking through it
04:03<adamt>yeah mine just sprang to life again.
04:03<czr>marius, ventriloquist hits the DC?
04:03<czr>local stuff must be quite wtf by now
04:04<czr>you should do the classical "help me, I'm trapped in a server!"-thing
04:04<czr>s/stuff/staff/ even.
04:04<Ephialtes>sorry, i don't usually do that but certain things..
04:05<amitz>czr: heh, i thought about it too but i feel i was too freaky and/or random these days, need to stop voicing my thought. :-p
04:05<czr>great minds think alike.
04:05*czr hides & runs
04:06<adamt>thank god for the issues resolving itself, since this winmtr stuff isn't really doing a whole lot :p
04:07<czr>winmtr sounds like something that eats away on your virtual memory..
04:08<adamt>Windows ain't supposed to be runnable with any amount of memory anways.
04:08<amitz>640 gb of virtual memory should be suffice.
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04:10*czr gets back to work before it's too late
04:11<amitz>go back to work, shu shu!
04:11<czr>in finnish, shu is hus. a fact you might find handy some day.
04:13<amitz>in indonesian, people use both. hus is spoken in a lower tone, shu in a higher tone. you might find that handy too ;-)
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04:14<czr>indeed. need to find a place which utilizes all the permutations though. it might be an interesting place to visit.
04:14<amitz>well, hus is more about making scary voice to scare out things, like animals.
04:15<amitz>the transliteration of voice of animals or sound is also interessting across languages.
04:16<amitz>i probably knew about nom nom nom for only hm... 3 months?
04:17<amitz>we say it nyam nyam nyam.
04:18<czr>dog = hau, cat = miau, donkey = iihahaa, chicken = kot kot, pig = röh (röh), sheep = mää. and others.
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04:19<czr>and nom = nam over here.
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04:21<amitz>dog = guk, cat = miauw, donkey = ..we don't have donkey, i think, chicken = kukuruyuk, pig = not sure, pig is not kosher, no sheep.
04:21<amitz>kukuruyuk is the full yell.
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04:22<czr>ah yes. "kukkokiekuu" is the proper in finnish. although it's somewhat moronic since, "kukko" = rooster, and "kiekuu" = cockoos (verb).
04:22<czr>in russian it would be "kukariku"
04:23<amitz>oh.. interesting.
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04:25<amitz>car's horn: din din...
04:26<czr>tuut tuut in finnish, "bibip" in russian (not 100% sure about the latter one though)
04:27<amitz>my wife's language of car's horn: pit pit.
04:27<czr>at least one universal aspect seems to be that the horn is used twice in these cultures.
04:28<amitz>hmm nice observation.
04:28<czr>interesting. now to lunch ->
04:28<amitz>okay, hus hus ;-)
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04:30<CyZo>Is there something going on in London?
04:31<encode>yep. Winter
04:32<amitz>some people reported problem, but no more complain these last couple of minutes.
04:32<CyZo>lol, i have two linodes there and both are responding really slow
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04:35<sburlot1>I also have a very slow connection with London.
04:37<CyZo>its odd it only seems to affect port 80 or maybe I just dont notice it with ssh
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04:39<CyZo>Something appears to be wrong with telecity
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04:42<hawk>If the problem remains and no linoder is here, file a ticket
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04:43<marius>Did you MTR it?
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04:43<CyZo>I cant get to either so I think its a connection issue
04:45<CyZo>it works fine from the US for me just not here.
04:46<stitch>w/in 50
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04:47<sburlot1>Ha. Speed is now back to normal. Or so it seems.
04:47<hawk>sburlot1: You fixed it!
04:48<amitz>my presence fixes it.
04:48<CyZo>yep, just noticed it
04:48<amitz>I know, right?
04:48<CyZo> is also back
04:48<sburlot1>Was the problem limited to switzerland -> london only?
04:49<CyZo>thats my location,
04:49<CyZo>I didnt see the problem from the US
04:50<CyZo>its still slow but not completly dead
04:51<tuupola>i also experience problems to london, but only from one isp
04:51<amitz>don't worry, my aura is working on it.
04:51<tuupola>friday the first time. during weekend everything was ok and now it is really bad.
04:52<sburlot1>I've seen better speed with apachebench.
04:52<tuupola>but it is only from one isp.
04:52<tuupola>for me it is just timeouts.
04:52<tuupola>heh for example I cannot access at the moment
04:52<CyZo>Neither can I
04:53<sburlot1>It responds slowly here
04:53<CyZo>I have huge packetloss on the way there
04:53<tuupola>can you access this:
04:53<tuupola>do a couple of reload
04:53<tuupola>my problem at tje moment is that mayba 7 out of 10 http requests just time out
04:53<tuupola>friday it was only 1 of 10
04:54<CyZo>its doing the same as mine, very slow and most requests time out
04:55<tuupola>same here. Have you opened a ticket=
04:55<CyZo>I have not, I will right now
04:55<tuupola>I opened one on friday but they said they have not got any other reports so it must be my isps problem
04:55<CyZo>where are you accessing it from?
04:56<tuupola>Elion network from Estonia
04:56<tuupola>at the same time I have people testing in Finland and everything is ok with them
04:56<CyZo>k, Im coming from Switzerland 2 differnt ISPs
04:56<tuupola>and also when testing from another ISP in Estonia everything is ok
04:56<tuupola>so it is really weird...
04:56<CyZo>my connection goes via france over init7
04:58<sburlot1>mtr reports 50% packet loss from
04:58<tuupola>might be icmp limiting
04:58<hawk>Unless the loss is >= 50% from then on, it's probably that host that limits icmp echo
04:58<czr>tuupola, I had problems with london timing out http 80 conns yesterday at least (from finland)
04:59<hawk>Or.. err.. icmp anything I guess if it was mtr
04:59<CyZo>Is two hops with the same IP normal?
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05:01<tuupola>czr : which isp?
05:01<czr>tuupola, elisa yesterday
05:02<czr>or maybe it was two days back actually..
05:02<tuupola>yeah. i had first problems on friday. yesterday was ok. today is impossible
05:02<tuupola>anyway here is my mtr from laptop to two differen uk linodes
05:03<tuupola> seems to have packet loss but it is just icmp rate limiting
05:03<czr>voima :-)
05:03<tuupola>powerbook :)
05:03<czr>indeed :-)
05:03<CyZo>what about ?
05:03<hawk>So you have 0% loss to the node? But http specifically(?) times out? Or anything tcp?
05:04<czr>gah. my local router at work seems to filter all non-ping icmp
05:04<CyZo>it seems to only be http, I can ssh fine
05:05<tuupola>same here i can ssh fine
05:05*czr metoos
05:05<CyZo>and I know its not some apache conf, I spent the last hour checking, also my other london linode is doing the same and the connection is fine from the US
05:06<tuupola>same here. I have two different setups both in uk and both have same problem
05:06<czr>here's mtr from elisa to london atm. odd problem somewhere though:
05:06<tuupola>and as I said some isp:s work fine
05:06<CyZo>I couldnt get to before either
05:06<tuupola>easy test to do is
05:06<czr>it's odd that the traffic wants to go through frankfurt..
05:07<tuupola>friday mine got stuck after maybe 30 requests. this morning after 2 or so
05:08<tuupola>can also test doing wget many times.
05:08<czr>who is
05:09<czr>(i know what whois says, but it doesn't make sense)
05:09<czr>wtf. seems like the 10 hop is some hong-kong-based operator
05:09<czr>"might explain the jump in latency"..
05:10<tuupola>ok this is weird. suddenly my problems are gone. Maybe Elion booted something because I sent them an email...
05:10<sburlot1>and now I can't access my server again.
05:12<CyZo>Something is changing, I dont have the same IP in two hops anymore
05:14<tuupola>my traceroute seems to have changed too
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05:16<czr>can you report mtr?
05:16<czr>repost even
05:18<markild>anyone elese at uk-hub having networking issues?
05:19<tuupola>http requests time out for you too?
05:19<markild>"good" :P
05:19<tuupola>can you open a ticket since mine started on friday but they said since no one else has reported it must be my isp
05:19<tuupola>which is possible too since everything is ok with some other isps
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05:20<markild>I'm guessing routing issue
05:20<markild>20-40% packet loss
05:20<czr>marius, there seems to be heavy packet loss
05:20<czr>sorry, markild
05:21<tuupola>Or the "Anonymous" guys fighting for Assange :)
05:21<czr>physical violence is much better for that
05:21<markild>tuupola: wouldn't really surprise me :P
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05:21<markild>czr: yeah, what happened to good ol "burn down a building"!?
05:22<czr>when I was young, things were more honest.
05:22<tuupola>my connection to uk datacenter was unusable whole morning. suddenly started to work and I can see from mtr and traceroute that the routa changed
05:22<czr>markild, indeed.
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05:22<czr>mine goes through, which seems to be the starting point for the drops
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05:22<qubits>fuck. just spent 3 hours teaching myself how to write bash scripts and i just found the stackscripts library
05:23<axod>anyone else seeing packet loss to london?
05:23<czr>connection between frankfurt and london. might be getting hit some crap and that is reflecting to the whole route
05:23<czr>axod, o/
05:23<markild>as long as it's not just me :P
05:23<czr> ,
05:24<czr>seems to be at the border of telecity
05:24<axod>yup looks like around there
05:24<axod>any point opening a ticket?
05:24<czr>axod, yes. do it.
05:24<dcraig>you can use -w to keep the hostnames from being truncated
05:25<sburlot1>OK, I've opened a ticket. We'll see.
05:25<tuupola>but off to lunch. hope Interwebs still exist when I come back :)
05:25<czr>dcraig, thanks for the hint
05:26<czr> (still telecity though :-)
05:26<czr>hmm. let me try another large isp
05:27<tuupola>blah. date will be late. so back to debugging...
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05:31<tuupola>my routes changed and now timeouts do not exist:
05:32<czr> (no mtr -w, sortty) and . both show telecity border as the problem
05:34<sburlot1>Ha. linode answered my ticket:
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05:38<noir_lord>if I sign up for a linode say a 1024 and then later need to move up to something a bit more beefy, I can move an existing linode across and reboot right?
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05:39<noir_lord>I want to setup and configure the server but I'm not going to know which of the larger packages I'm going to need until we are up and running
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05:43<tuupola>iirc you can just upgrade via admin. It will take several minutes depending on load and your linode size.
05:43<tuupola>never upgraded myself though.
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05:44<axod>noir_lord: yup it takes but a minute or 2 to change size
05:44<noir_lord>thought that was the case but I wanted to make sure, linode beats the prices I can get anywhere else (and I use it for my side business already)
05:44<axod>I do it most weeks
05:44<tuupola>Linode rocks. (Not just the UK datacenter atm ;)
05:44<axod>LINX fault apparently
05:45<noir_lord>some of the quotes are insane, £469 a month for 60Gb on top of £99 for the server (though it does have 250Gb)
05:45<CyZo>Linode does rock, most awesome provider I ever had
05:45<noir_lord>laughable and that is what the supplier recommended to us, I nearly fell over laughing in the meeting
05:46<axod>noir_lord: utf8 rocks btw
05:46<noir_lord>there is an issue with the UK DC?
05:46<axod>noir_lord: LINX issue in london
05:50<noir_lord>checked, my site is still up and responding...shrugs
05:51<axod>noir_lord: about 20% loss
05:51<axod>so it won't be down for everyone all the time
05:52<noir_lord>not even dropping packets from where I am (in the UK)
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06:00<linbot>New news from forums: Anything special I should do to get pop3 working now? in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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06:16<HoopyCat>wrong kind of snow on the power rails
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06:18<marius>HELLO MARIUS
06:19<linbot>Point (0.20689237, 0.01017445) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17514 of 22286 (π ≈ 3.143498160279997 - 0.001905506690203)
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06:20<Yaakov>HELLO MARRYUS
06:20<marius>Hai yaakov my prince
06:20<Yaakov>This Friday begins the adventure.
06:22<czr>the problems with telecity/linx provided me a good chance to explain how global routing works to a collegue.
06:22<marius>1 full page of items left to grab images of
06:22<czr>so, it wasn't all a loss then :-).
06:22<HoopyCat>czr: i route, therefore, you are
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06:23<czr>I send evil particles to switch the bits in your routing table, therefore..
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06:23<HoopyCat>i'm very comfortable with a CLI, therefore, the fact that i dumped coffee on my mouse is comparatively minor
06:23<czr>and interesting exersise is to take some critical-path code and work out the worst possible outcome caused by a single bit flip. it's fun. good drinking game too.
06:23<HoopyCat>lemme just go to and buy a new mouse using one-click ord-- ffffffffffff
06:23<linbot>New news from forums: pureFTP and filezilla - upload stuck at 100% in General Discussion <>
06:24*czr hands some tissues to hoopycat
06:24<marius>HoopyCat, tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-enter = problem solved
06:24*czr pours some coffee on marius's tab
06:25<marius>of course; tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab--tab-enter = fuuuuuuuuuuu *starting over*
06:25<czr>I rob you of your precious UI element.
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06:25<HoopyCat>seems more of a local IO handle
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06:26<Yaakov>czr: Think of routing like two cats, make one black with a little white on it and the other white with a little black on it. You put them in different rooms but in the same building and feed one some food while but not the other. The litterbox is in a third, looked room but with windows so the cats can see it. When the cat that ate has to use it, the door will only unlock when the one who *didn't* eat meows. That's basically it.
06:26<syberdave>HoopyCat: ctrl+shift+numlock in X and you can use your number pad to move your mouse around
06:26<HoopyCat>Yaakov: what if the unfed cat dies?
06:26<Yaakov>HoopyCat: That's the Internet in a nutshell.
06:26<czr>HoopyCat, you buy a bigger cat to replace it
06:26<HoopyCat>syberdave: mouse still works, and i was looking for comedic effect, not a solution ;-)
06:26<marius>syberdave, that's handy to know :o (Now find me a winblows alternative)
06:27<czr>marius, windows is like a litter box.
06:27<syberdave>marius: windows has something like that in the accessibility thing in the control panel; i don't remember what it's called
06:27<HoopyCat>doesn't seem to work, alas. hmm
06:27<HoopyCat>anyway, afk, gotta drive through this shit
06:28<Yaakov>Windows is like one cat that insists it is a dog but looks like a horse. It's too big for any normal saddle so you have to ride bareback, but it keeps trying to eat you every few steps, and usually maanges to get some chunk of meat.
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06:52<graq>I wonder if my city-link package will arrive today. Their web site has been down all morning.
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07:00<BarkerJr>why is it that every time I install an update for bind, it chmod's /var/named so that bind doesn't have permission to write to it?
07:00<BarkerJr>then it restarts bind and it fails
07:02<axod>BarkerJr: what distro?
07:02<axod>never seen that in ubuntu
07:02<axod>hrm not sure sorry :/
07:02<BarkerJr>of course yum doesn't tell me that bind failed to come up again, so it just leaves me with an outage
07:03<warren>BarkerJr: I use centos/rhel and I've never seen that problem
07:05<BarkerJr>I've tried setting it to 775 or changing the owner to named:named but every time they update bind it changes back to 755 and root:named
07:05<BarkerJr>course bind needs to be able to write to it slave zones and such
07:06<warren>BarkerJr: is this bind-chroot?
07:06<warren>BarkerJr: it has this goofy thing using bind mounts that might be confusing you
07:06<BarkerJr>I would guess not, unless centos does that by default
07:07<warren>why are you running bind anyway?
07:07<BarkerJr>so I can update my records minutely
07:08<warren>you running a dnsbl or something?
07:08<axod>several good reasons to run bind :/
07:09<BarkerJr>no, HA failover between data centres
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07:10<BarkerJr>I would like to run a dnsbl, though
07:10<BarkerJr>dunno what I'd put in it, but it'd be fun
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07:14<HoopyCat>i shoulda brought my kindle so i could IRC while waiting for grandma meekturner to gather up enough courage to gently depress the accelerator pedal
07:14*HoopyCat bitches and moans about everyone else's driving
07:15<marius>I'm doign my night-drive course on thursday
07:15<czr>according to local surveys, 85% of finnish think they're above the average as drivers.
07:15<marius>that's another $200 wasted o nsomethign that's pointless
07:15<czr>marius, don't worry, it won't be your last completely wasted $200.
07:15<marius>I have ot pay $200, to sit in a car while someone else drives and tells me "see that man? well, now he's not wearing any reflective surfaces and you'd run him over!"
07:16<HoopyCat>czr: i'd believe it, especially in snow.
07:16<czr>you got it wrong. you should be asking how many points you could score in that situation.
07:16<czr>city-bike-couriers get 10 points over here.
07:17<czr>they're somewhat tricky to hit properly
07:17<marius>czr, one nearly ran me over in london xD
07:17<czr>(they're complete arseholes over here too)
07:17<marius>I'm used to how bikers are in norway; dead ahead, accelerate if people are about to step out infront of you
07:17<marius>so I stop up
07:17<czr>otoh, must be something that you must be in order to start in the business
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07:17<marius>but in London they aren't douchefags, so when I stsoppe dot let him pass, he nearly ran me over because he turned sideways to go behind me if I had kept wlaking
07:18<czr>ah. death via courtesy.
07:18<czr>not a bad way to go though.
07:18<marius>we don't have bike couriers in my town :P
07:18<HoopyCat>czr: the hakkapeliitta put nokia on the map, remember :-)
07:18<marius>we have people who think they are being enviromentally friendly
07:18<czr>HoopyCat, actually it was the rubber boots :-).
07:18<czr>and the crappy modems.
07:18<marius>the yspend thousnds of dollars on bikes and professional biker gear to cycle to work every morning
07:18<marius>causing traffic sitautions every god damn day
07:18<czr>"Osta Nokia, siina on mokia" = old unofficial slogan. "Buy a Nokia, it has faults".
07:19<HoopyCat>czr: more generally, things that are best used as traction in snowy conditions :-)
07:19<czr>yeah, except that they don't really do shit with loose snow :-).
07:19<HoopyCat>some carry sand; i carry old modems
07:20<czr>but it's funny to notice how some people assume that if they have 4 wheel drive, that will also mean that when they break on ice/loose snow, somehow their grip will be better.
07:20<HoopyCat>czr: bahahaha... yes.
07:20<czr>damn SUV-arseholes..
07:20<czr>(not americans, but SUV drivers in general)
07:20<HoopyCat>czr: the annoying part is that they're usually immediately behind me when i'm a reasonable distance behind grandma meekturner
07:20*czr nods
07:21<HoopyCat>czr: headlights aimed right at my rear-view mirror...
07:21<czr>obviously. although my rear-view has optical something attenuation.
07:21<Ethelim>I used to drive one, but then I drive about in the mountains several times a year
07:21<czr>which is quite useful, otherwise i'd be blind by now
07:22<czr>Ethelim, over here, you don't really need an SUV for anything. they're useless off-road, but also idiotic in regular traffic
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07:22<Ethelim>my point was that people who don't drive in a certain environment ever, or barely ever, are no good at it for lack of experience. That includes thinking that the car type matters when trying to break on ice
07:22<HoopyCat>czr: mine too. the annoying part is that my braking strategy is to not brake if at all possible, and boy does it take them a little while to notice that i'm slowing at 1 to 2 km/h/s
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07:22<czr>HoopyCat, mine too
07:22<BarkerJr>big old heavy station wagons stop well on ice
07:23<BarkerJr>do they make station wagons anymore?
07:23<HoopyCat>czr: fortunately, i have a dent on the right rear corner that i'm hoping someone will pay to fix one of these days...
07:23<Ethelim>Always see people trying to break on downwards slopes, which on a slippery surface always goes wrong. Bunch of accidents there every year
07:23<czr>BarkerJr, that kind of model is quite popular here. although it's just an extended body, doesn't really make it more heavier
07:24<czr>well, I'd tell you a joke about the annual "SNOW SUPRISED DRIVERS" -headlines in the newpapers, but it's pointless
07:24<HoopyCat>(as we slammed into the snowbank at the side of the road at 105 km/h and slowly skidded to a stop, i knew right then that i'd found the limitations of my skid recovery ability)
07:25<czr>come first snow, we regularly get ~5 people dead in the capital area and about 200-300 minor accidents. during the first day.
07:25<czr>HoopyCat, heh, I suck at even slower speeds. at least I know it.
07:25<BarkerJr>driving while there is snow on the ground should be outlawed
07:25-!-A-KO [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:26<encode>my snow-driving ability is non-existent
07:26<czr>well, I did have a talk about it with a friend, and people used to know how to drive properly, even before winter tyres existed.
07:26<czr>so it's just people getting stupider.
07:26<HoopyCat>czr: ... 7:30am and we're already crankin' out the injury MVAs
07:26<encode>living in a city where it never snows
07:26<Ethelim>The appeal of SUVs (over here we distinguish between SUV and offroader, too) is that you sit higher up, gives you better sight of traffic, you see what's happening earlier on, makes for more relaxed driving. Besides the stability on slippery surfaces that was the appealing bit for me anyway. And you still have to mount snow chains, lots of suv drivers think the 4by4 improves their single tire traction
07:26<encode>I hate SUVs. Can't see through them to see what the traffic is like ahead of them
07:27<czr>damn I wish we'd have graphs like that, thanks hoopycat
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07:27<encode>and they're almost universally the worst drivers on teh road
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07:27<czr>Ethelim, except that the con is that you're now blocking visibility for others, not in SUVs.
07:27<HoopyCat>Ethelim: the visibility is fine in a "normal" car unless you're stuck behind a SUV. which is rare in the snow
07:28<czr>plus it seems that people driving SUVs have much heavier legs on the gas.
07:28<czr>feet? whatever.
07:28<HoopyCat>one thing i will give SUV drivers is that i usually don't end up stuck behind them in traffic in traffic
07:28<Ethelim>you just gotta go to areas where driving is trickier all year around, you'll have more practiced drivers. Mind, the bad ones always stick out, the good ones don't except in near accident situations
07:28<czr>because it seems safer..
07:28<HoopyCat>err, in snow in traffic. in traffic in snow?
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07:28<HoopyCat>snowy traffic
07:28<czr>in traffic in traffic.
07:28<czr>resurcive driving 101
07:28<czr>recursive even.
07:28<encode>in snow in #linode
07:29<Ethelim>Hoopy, depends on the ground. On US roads it is. On southern european ones it isn't
07:29<HoopyCat>it's like the integral of 2 traffic
07:29<amitz>in snow in snowy #linode
07:29<encode>in #linodey #linode
07:29<@mikegrb>mmm cake
07:29<encode>cakery cake
07:29*encode stops now
07:29<Ethelim>people call 911 to complain about barking dogs? :S
07:29<amitz>hmm surprise driving...
07:30<czr>Ethelim, was looking at that as well :-)
07:30<czr>it had some other funny entries too
07:30<BarkerJr>where else would you call?
07:30<HoopyCat>Ethelim: perhaps true. mind you, i do feel safer close to the ground, so i'm a little biased as far as comfort goes
07:30<Ethelim>good problem to have as a societa
07:30*encode calls HoopyCat about the odor of smoke
07:30<php>Hello, How do I upgrade from php5.2.6 to php5.3.4 on debian?
07:30<HoopyCat>Ethelim: i always feel like i'm going to accidentally run over something or tip over when i'm too high up
07:30<hawk>BarkerJr: I guess if it's really a problem you could call the local police department?
07:31<BarkerJr>I don't know that phone number
07:31<HoopyCat>php: best bet would be to wait a little while for squeeze to be released... i think php 5.3.x is in there
07:31<BarkerJr>and I don't have time to look it up
07:31<BarkerJr>those 911 folks are bored most of the time anyway, right?
07:31<amitz>BarkerJr: we tradionally use sandal to solve such problem. :-p
07:31<php>Ok, thanks
07:32<Ethelim>Hoopy: you do get used to it (imagine truck drivers!). But hey, people should drive what they like best. Some manufacturers sticking hybrid engines into most of their makes already makes that economically acceptable too
07:32-!-php [] has quit []
07:32*czr looks for "yo dog, we know that you like traffic, so we put traffic in your traffic"-picture..
07:33<HoopyCat>Ethelim: don't get me started on retrofit hybrids :-)
07:33<czr>hybrids aren't really popular over here
07:33<Ethelim>not talking retrofit :P and yea, let's not discuss hybrids. Let's saying we're getting there with time
07:33<czr>but then again, gas is so expensive that MPG has always been pretty good.
07:34<amitz>BarkerJr: the cheapest pair of sandal you can get is around USD 1, so it's 50 cent per ammo :-D
07:34<czr>or rather, KPL
07:34<amitz>gas is going up btw -_-
07:34<HoopyCat>Ethelim: i'm a bit of a purist ('02 prius)
07:34<HoopyCat>czr: l/100 km
07:34<czr>HoopyCat, ah yes, true.
07:35*czr should be working anyway
07:35*HoopyCat should also be working
07:35<BarkerJr>amitz: if only dealing with car alarms was as easy
07:35<amitz>czr: talking makes you more productive later ;-)
07:35<HoopyCat>i have... a crapload of homework and a paper and a quiz and oh hell
07:35<czr>amitz, pass me some of what you're smoking please :-)
07:36<czr>I've been working with this piece of code almost 3 weeks now.
07:36<czr>slowest subproject ever. I blame it on #linode.
07:36<HoopyCat>going on coop next quarter, can't wait... 8 to 5 with an hour lunch, frickin' vacation right there...
07:36<amitz>BarkerJr: hmm good point.
07:36<Ethelim>lol, I _almost_ got me the 2009 prius, but ended up spending the rest of the year in Australia on business, now I'm waiting for the next one
07:37<amitz>czr: I used to work on a code for 4 weeks, albeit I'm squeezing performance like crazy ;-)
07:37<czr>I would've probably gotten the prius, but it's just too ugly.
07:37<HoopyCat>Ethelim: i can assure you they work fine in snow and cold. i've started this baby at 0 deg C, +/- 40 deg C
07:37<czr>amitz, I'm squeezing mostly "works-correctly"nance.
07:38<HoopyCat>czr: yeah, they're trying to make it look all aggressive 'cuz that's what we like. models <= 2003 are just plain cute
07:38<czr>HoopyCat, I got a mazfa 6 (2008 model) in the end
07:38<czr>mazfa.. the chinese version.. /me hides.
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07:39<HoopyCat>my wheelz:
07:39<HoopyCat>(also, my wife)
07:40<czr>hah. almost as much snow as over here
07:40<czr>except maybe just about half?
07:40<amitz>HoopyCat: that's prius? oh.. not bad.
07:40<HoopyCat>czr: pic is about two years old. we now have an antenna on the trunk lid as a depth gauge
07:41<czr>oh, ok then :-).
07:41<HoopyCat>if the snow is up over the loading coil, leave 10 minutes early
07:41<czr>that's pretty good. do you clean your driveway too?
07:41<Ethelim>I always put auxiliary heaters in my cars, so cold doesn't matter (the heating is mostly for me so that I don't have to get in a car at -15 celsius in winter, but pre-heats the engine too of course)
07:42<HoopyCat>czr: my back prohibits such, but once in awhile our neighbor fires up her snowblower (we share a common driveway)
07:42<czr>I should probably get one for next winter. although the car is in garage (underground) during nights.. so it would be only useful when leaving work.
07:42*czr nods at hoopycat
07:42<czr>last winter there were a lot of roofs collapsing because of snow over here
07:43<czr>towards the spring when it started gaining moisture properly
07:43<czr>hasn't snowed that much since the 40s.
07:43<Ethelim>I love those things. You can time it to preheat the car to be cozy when you get back from an evening out, and it's good for engine longevity
07:44<amitz>wait... this prehet thing runs 24 hours a day when the car is not running?
07:44<HoopyCat>Ethelim: i start it as soon as i can get the door open and that's good enough... i care more about not having enough runtime to let the 12 V battery recover from overnight cold + power-on checks + rear defroster + front PTC elements + etc
07:44<Ethelim>no only when you turn it on
07:44<czr>it's popular over here to use the ones that run off external 240V
07:44<Ethelim>you turn it on 15-20 minutes before you get in the car, and it's nicely warm
07:45<czr>but also some people use ones that use diesel, which is more useful when you're not close to a socket
07:45<amitz>Ethelim: oh... you pre-heat the engine only right? what's the point then? I mean, it's a good habit to let the engine heat distributes first before starts driving, yes?
07:45<HoopyCat>Ethelim: when i was driving 2 miles each way and that was it, after a couple weeks my 12 V battery was very unhappy... that's the downside of the older prius, at least. my UPS has more amp-hours
07:46<HoopyCat>amitz: engines don't sound happy when you go wide-open-throttle before the oil has had a chance to liquify
07:46<Ethelim>the engine being pre-heated is a secondary effect, it's meant to defrost your windows and heat up the interior
07:46<amitz>ah.. secondary effect.
07:47<amitz>HoopyCat: ah, no full-pedal-push(?) then before everything is heated properly.
07:47<Ethelim>as in, it's for wimp drivers who enjoy the comfort of warm cars in the morning or evening, with the excuse that it also keeps the engine alive longer when you live in a region where it gets cold in winter
07:48<ariel>Unable to connect to BOS server: SSL Handshake Failed <<<< what does this mean?
07:48<HoopyCat>amitz: with throttle-by-wire, the engine management computer will usually not let you do too much too soon, but meh
07:48<Ethelim>mind you, it's also very helpful when you take your date back - warm car beats cold and uncomfortable car ;)
07:49<HoopyCat>ariel: usually means the server isn't speaking SSL, or the server and client can't agree on a common set of standards
07:49<ariel>HoopyCat, what would make it do that?
07:49<amitz>HoopyCat: throttle-by-wire is something that most cars have now, yes? anything above USD10,000?
07:49<HoopyCat>ariel: what is BOS? did it work before?
07:50<ariel>oh yeah everythign worked fine on my laptop before, and i have no idea.. its an error message from pidgin
07:50<amitz>Ethelim: warm car means no need to search for another source of warmness :-)
07:50<czr>amitz, yeah, nothing like cold hands while you're driving on a high-way in a snow storm
07:50<HoopyCat>amitz: hmm i wouldn't go that far... it's becoming more and more common tho, especially since the engine warmup period is a time of poor emissions
07:51<czr>HoopyCat, you mean high emissions surely?
07:51<BarkerJr>people who have cars with alarms should be dragged out into the street and made to listen to them for half an hour every night
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07:51<HoopyCat>ariel: ahhh... odds are good some IM provider has changed the way they do things to break third-party clients. did you install pidgin from the pidgin people, or via your distribution?
07:52<HoopyCat>czr: high emissions are poor emissions :-)
07:52<czr>HoopyCat, so poor people have a lot of money? :-)
07:52<amitz>hmm I guess it takes more imagination for me to really appreciate the problem of cold and driving. Limited experience.
07:52<czr>hmm. actually that's quite true many times..
07:52<HoopyCat>czr: poor people don't have good money :-)
07:52<czr>ah ok. only bad money.
07:52<HoopyCat>czr: if they didn't have bad money, they'd have no kind of money at all
07:53<amitz>BarkerJr: yeah, what's up with that, people who ignore car alarm going off.
07:53<HoopyCat>!wx KROC
07:53<linbot>HoopyCat: [metar] OBS at KROC: 12.2F/-11C, visibility 1 miles, wind 11.51 mph (altimeter: 29.59) [KROC 141202Z 29010KT 1SM R04/3500VP6000FT -SN BR BKN007 BKN015 OVC034 M11/M13 A2959 RMK AO2 TWR VIS 1 1/4 P0000]
07:53<HoopyCat>amitz: ^--- yeah
07:53<Ethelim>amitz: not when it's _that_ cold that you don't want open the jacket :P
07:53<czr>HoopyCat, they could have zimbabwean dollars though.
07:53<HoopyCat>oh shit, broken at 7000. gotta go fix it
07:53<BarkerJr>amitz: I think they park on the other side of the building from where they live so they don't have to hear it
07:53<amitz>Ethelim: see! I told you I still don't understand the subtlety of cold and driving ;-).
07:54<HoopyCat>czr: that's bad money
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07:54<Ethelim>imagine that touching the steering wheel is very unpleasant (and driving with warm gloves is a really bad idea)
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07:54<amitz>BarkerJr: okay, second thing is, what's up with people who buy flaky car alarm set or set it too high?
07:55<HoopyCat>i have custom-knit gloves that are awesome for driving, except the thumb is a little long and i sometimes get it stuck in the rearview-mirror-dimming-lever
07:55*czr shrugs at driving with gloves
07:55<czr>works for me at least.
07:55<czr>obviously you lose some of the feel, but still.
07:56<Ethelim>over here you get martens and sometimes cats that trigger them. Though car manufacturers are getting better in taking the real world into account when calibrating those things
07:56<HoopyCat>anyway, back to work. to recap: take the racing slicks off, grandma
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07:58<deejoe>HoopyCat: would it be taken wrong if I mentioned something about getting a good 8" inches overnight?
07:59<czr>as long as they're good inches.
07:59<amitz>I have a story... People around our house have too sensitive cars. So one really early morning, I heard a car alarm went off. I and my wife ignored it, yet another false alarm. We even spoke to each other, god dammit, whose car was that. I'm not sure how long has passed when suddenly she sat up and yell, "that's our car!"
07:59*graq . o O ( Yo inches are bad, boy! )
08:00<HoopyCat>deejoe: i think you're clear
08:00*czr notes the lack of symmetry
08:00<amitz>Long story short, I went out. Turns out someone was trying to break into our car -_-
08:00*graq . o O ( smack down! )
08:02<deejoe>a car alarm working in the appropriate context? unconceivable!
08:02<amitz>and the funny thing was, I was trying to turn off the alarm!
08:02<amitz>and failed, which was why I went out.
08:02<Ethelim>not too much damage to the car I hope
08:03<amitz>well, broken key hole, cut off alarm cable. When I was going out, the alarm had stopped sounding (but still blinking)
08:04<deejoe>czr: the best ones--light and fluffy
08:04<deejoe>well, for clearing and for skiing/snowboarding/snowshoeing. Maybe not so much for building snowfolk and snow forts and having snowball fights
08:04<amitz>if by that time I went back to sleep, good bye car. Unfortunately, I thoutht I was already halfway so I better dealt with that god damn car.
08:06<amitz>and for the next few years, I use steer lock as added protection.
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08:06<amitz>no longer use it now :-p
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09:28<linbot>New news from forums: Kernel selection for Gentoo in General Discussion <>
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09:35<megatron27>my connection is quite slow
09:35<megatron27>it's still loading
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09:35<megatron27>I don't know whether my connection is slow or whether that server is slow
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09:36<Peng|>Both those pages were fast for me.
09:36<amitz>is sgu any good? thee series?
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09:37<hobot>I assume /teapot/ is russel's teapot
09:37<megatron27>amitz, if you want good sci-fi watch V or The Event
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09:37<hobot>we did it
09:37-!-Dreamer3 [] has joined #linode
09:37<megatron27>my connection is crawling
09:37<hobot>id wear a russel's teapot shirt
09:37<amitz>megatron27: have watched v, but not the event. hmm
09:37<hobot>but teach the controversy is a dumb wording on it
09:38<hobot>I know its making fun of creationists but I dont like repeating anything they say
09:38<hobot>I know but its not that funny
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09:38<megatron27>I don't understand this teapot thing
09:38<hobot>god exists would be a funnier quote
09:39<hobot>russel's teapot is just a thought experiment where you take god and replace him with a magic teapot circling the sun
09:39<hobot>and you show the absolute ridiculousness of worshipping fairies
09:40<megatron27>have you guys read about the rogue planet theory
09:40<megatron27>where there are planets with strange orbits around the Sun
09:40<hobot>ive heard of it
09:40<megatron27>and that these planets come close to Earth every few hundred years
09:40<megatron27>probably :-)
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09:40<hobot>yeah anubis is coming
09:40<tjfontaine>it makes your teeth turn green
09:41<megatron27>yeah, Anubis!
09:41<megatron27>I saw it when searching for some things on Youtube
09:41*hobot wishes he was alive in 1985
09:41<megatron27>well yeah, but these are planets
09:42<megatron27>the idea is that when these planets come close enough to Earth that lifeforms from those other planets visit us
09:42<hobot>the thing is just, ocams razor it a bit
09:42<hobot>do you know how much a near orbit would fuck with the earth
09:42<megatron27>search for Nibiru on Youtube
09:42<megatron27>or Planet X
09:42<megatron27>or Anunnaki
09:43<megatron27>some people actually believe this stuff
09:44<hobot>you can see it on the history channel if it is past 8pm
09:44<megatron27>ice road truckers >:D<
09:45<hobot>also the aliens visiting earth show is fucking cracked up, but its fun to get baked and watch it
09:45<megatron27>even they can make a documentary about that, surely a documentary about system administrators isn't too far off
09:45<hobot>they would have to do like a surviving horror stories type one
09:45<hobot>like they do with "I ALMOST DIED"
09:45<hobot>or whatever
09:47<megatron27>which show are you talking about?
09:48<megatron27>there's this Facebook competitor that limits the number of friends you can have to 50
09:48<megatron27>I think it's a good idea
09:48<czr>since I have only 0 friends.
09:48<megatron27>I'm you friend.
09:48<hobot>I have many friends but I revile facebook
09:49*czr hugs megatron27
09:49<hobot>social networks are basically pressuring you into using their sites through your friends
09:49<hobot>fight the powa
09:49<czr>it's too late for me. mymum can't really use computers that much. and the fact that she got some pics posted on facebook forced me to join
09:50<Peng>megatron27: You like The Event? I caught the first couple episodes, and it seemed decent enough, but I didn't mind missing it.
09:50<czr>all given though, the fb experience hasn't been all bad.
09:50<megatron27>I haven't actually seen it, I'm sheepish in that I recommend what everyone else recommends. But I love V.
09:50<hobot>I liked the first few episodes of v then I stopped watching it
09:51<megatron27>I wish they'd make real sets instead of using green screens all the time
09:51<Peng>I haven't seen V. Was having issues with ABC reception when it was on.
09:51<hobot>the show I like to watch every episode of is lie to me
09:51<Peng>Ah! Someone else likes Lie to Me!
09:51<megatron27>urghhh Lie to Me is so boring now
09:51<megatron27>the first season was okay
09:51<hobot>yeah its taken some bad twists
09:51<hobot>but I think its gonna come back
09:52<megatron27>I'm waiting for the next season of V
09:52<megatron27>Lie to Me reminds me too much of House
09:52*czr stopped watching tv completely
09:52<czr>last thing I watched was BSG really.
09:53<straterra>Poor BSG
09:53<straterra>I miss BSG..and Firefly
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09:53<megatron27>yeah, Youtube is good enough
09:53<czr>never really got into firefly..
09:53<hobot>yeah I disliked ff
09:53<czr>something doesn't add up in that series..
09:53<megatron27>I liked Rubicon on AMC
09:54<megatron27>but they canceled it
09:54<czr>hah. finally managed to get the code tested on proper target.
09:55<czr>looks very good. /me dances happy code dance
09:56<hobot>the reason lie to me reminds you of house is because they are both based on the same source material
09:56<hobot>sherlock holmes
09:56<hobot>lie to me is closer to that source
09:57<Peng>Wait...who's Watson, then?
09:58<hobot>watson is houses friend with the brown hair
09:58<hobot>and the woman with the brown hair
09:58<Peng>In Lie to Me.
09:58<hobot>both good but not as good as him
09:58<hobot>both offer interesting opinions and try to hold him back
09:58<Peng>Wait, which woman with brown hair? :P
09:58<hobot>I forget her name
09:58<hobot>shes the second in command
09:59<Peng>Jill, IIRC?
09:59<hobot>at the lightman institute
09:59<Peng>brb -- rsync
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09:59<megatron27>the only reason to watch Lie to Me - Gillian :D
09:59<megatron27>and Torres too
09:59<hobot>is her name
09:59<megatron27>but more for Gillian
10:00<Peng>Ah, Gillian.
10:00<megatron27>did I spell it wrongly
10:01<megatron27>do you remember those flash back episodes back when Gillian was Lightman's therapist
10:01<megatron27>she looked so damn good in that one
10:02<amitz>ooh, Gillian. HOW.
10:03<amitz>Hot Older Woman!
10:03-!-Dreamer3 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:03<megatron27>what? there's more to a woman than how she looks!
10:03<@jed>if it's below freezing, don't pour the remainder of your coffee on the pavement outside the convenience store
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10:03<@jed>thanks, everybody else <3
10:04<amitz>jed: it will become ice?
10:04<amitz>megatron27: she is somewhat sensual yet not overly sexual and cheap.
10:05<megatron27>sensual? there's more to a woman than how sensual she is
10:06<Peng>Yes, there's how she looks!
10:06<Peng>Sorry. /me hits himself with a fan.
10:07<amitz>megatron27: yes, the other factor is look!
10:08<amitz>oh wait, I was repeating Peng. Oh well :-p
10:09*Peng hits amitz with a fan too
10:09<Peng>brb rsync
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10:11<Peng>On a somewhat related note, apparently Mekhi Phifer from Lie to Me will be on Torchwood now.
10:12<megatron27>I didn't like his character on Lie to Me
10:12<megatron27>but not as useless as Emily
10:13<megatron27>did you guys hear about the Heroku acquisition
10:14<megatron27>I can't help but think that they overpaid even though I've never used it
10:14<marius>Peng: I didn't find Torchwood as exciting as DW it self
10:14<Peng>I don't remember what Heroku is.
10:14<Peng>I've never seen Torchwood.
10:15<megatron27>I think it's a way to easily deploy RoR apps
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10:15<pharaun>it is
10:15<marius>Torchwood is in my continued series
10:15<pharaun>some sort of "cloudy" way to deploy ruby/ror/etc type of app
10:15<marius>Season 4 is still TBA for airdate
10:15<pharaun>was season 3 for SG-u ever announced?
10:16<megatron27>they have node.js support too i think
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10:16<Peng>Ah, right. I don't use RoR so I never really cared about Heroku. :P
10:16<marius>SG-U is only halfway through season 2 I think
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10:16<pharaun>yeah i know but still :-p
10:17<megatron27>you use Django right?
10:17<pharaun>i want to know if there is any hope in hell of a s3 :)
10:17<marius>I think there is
10:17<marius>SG-U is quite popular
10:17<amitz>I like Jayma Mays...
10:17<marius>also; Sickbeard = <3 out of this world!
10:17<Peng>megatron27: Who uses Django? Me?
10:18<megatron27>yeah you
10:18<amitz>I was about to get SG-U, but nobody commented on it -_-
10:18<megatron27>maybe I'm mistaken
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10:18<marius>amitz, it's amazing
10:18<Peng>megatron27: I don't use anything. The last time I wrote a web app it was about 50 lines long. But if I was going to use something, it'd be Python and might be Django.
10:18<marius>You should all get SickBeard
10:18<pharaun>amitz: i like sgu session 1 but i'm biased :) its different from SGA & SG-1
10:19<megatron27>imagine something like The Office but with a sci-fi twist.
10:19<amitz>damn, It will be sometime before I can access it again -_-
10:19*Perihelion slaps marius around a bit with a large cactus
10:19<amitz>megatron27: woah... interesting..
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10:20<megatron27>is there a sci-fi mockumentary
10:20<pharaun>amitz: quit stalling, just go get SGU :)
10:20<marius>amitz, yo ucna grab them off me when I get home if you'd like
10:21<megatron27>anybody here use dna mail? I watch this podcast that they sponsor but till this day I don't get what they offer for Google Apps
10:21<amitz>my daily bandwidth is somewhat pathetic. I lost my ... uh... windows of chance for this week ;-)
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10:21<megatron27>I mean I can understand needing a hosted exchange solution, but why would I need managed google apps hosting
10:21<pharaun>amitz: how bad is it, surely its not 1gb/350mb per week?
10:22<megatron27>they're a reseller
10:22<megatron27>now I get it
10:22<amitz>pharaun: 3.1 mbps , quota of 400MB/day. But I was referring to uh...different method of grabbing ;-)
10:23<megatron27>daily quota? that sucks
10:23<pharaun>amitz: 400mb/day? wtf 0_o
10:23<megatron27>must be a 3G serice
10:24<pharaun>amitz: how the fuck do you get anything achieved, i tend to average a gigabyte a day without.... other stuff
10:24<megatron27>I bet he can only look at ASCII pr0n with that kind of quota
10:25<megatron27>in a tar.gz file
10:25<amitz>pharaun: indeed, as megatron said, EVDO service. After 400MB, I can still browse but I will be throttled 153kbps
10:25<amitz>megatron27: haha
10:26<megatron27>Every year a new type of exercise device is invented that 200 manufacturers will clone.
10:27<Peng>Giant hamster wheels!
10:27<megatron27>I think it first started with the stair master right
10:27<czr>there's nothing wrong with ASCII art.
10:28<megatron27>then the ab machines
10:28<megatron27>aero walkers
10:28<megatron27>nordi track-like machines
10:28<amitz>megatron27: you're more knowledgeable than me...
10:30<@Perihelion>I'm impressed that someone was able to make a klein bottle out of yarn
10:30<megatron27>there's this device that they're selling that is like horse riding
10:30<megatron27>horse riding in your living room
10:30<pharaun>amitz: ah, ew
10:30<amitz>czr: indeed, I used to be uh...excited over ascii art.
10:32<amitz>horse riding..
10:32<pwnguin>can you just mount a disk image from two linodes as rw?
10:32<megatron27>I don't understand this, but cool if it's true -
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10:33<czr>amitz, yes!
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10:33<czr>and it's so much bandwidth friendlier too
10:33<czr>infact, I propose that all p0rn sites remove all the images and videos and just start using the 'alt'-text properly.
10:34<czr>that would probably cut about 40% of all inet traffic.
10:34<amitz>czr: we will save energy, save trees!
10:34<pharaun> <- ow
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10:34<amitz>czr: 40%? You mean 99.4%?
10:35<megatron27>yeah, but women will have to start dressing up like ASCII characters
10:35<czr>megatron27, my point exactly!
10:35<czr>men too.
10:35<amitz>I like CHR(20) dressing.
10:35<HedgeMage>There really is no good time to walk in here, is there?
10:35<amitz>HedgeMage: haha
10:35<megatron27>DKNY is okay too
10:36<czr>Perihelion, a klein bottle would make an awesome glove too.
10:36<pharaun>HedgeMage: there never is a good time :)
10:37<Peng>HedgeMage: It's always a great time to walk in here!
10:37<pharaun>HedgeMage: i find having logs keep my sanity.... somewhat sane cos i can backrefer to see WTF 0_o
10:38<amitz>pharaun: some people regret knowing ;-)
10:39<megatron27>that's actually an exercise machine
10:39<pharaun>amitz: some people are already too... ruined by the internet to care :)
10:39*czr sends some logs to pharaun
10:39<amitz>megatron27: it's better be good, you're eating my 400MB ;-)
10:39<megatron27>it is
10:39*HedgeMage chuckles
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10:39<megatron27>amitz, watch the whole 30 seconds
10:40<pharaun>czr: ha
10:40<megatron27>can you really lose weight if the machine is doing all the work
10:40<czr>pharaun, can't really understand how you translate them into keeping sanity, but I will have to try them one day.. before it's too late :-).
10:41<HedgeMage>I don't suffer from insanity
10:41<HedgeMage>(I enjoy every minute)
10:41<czr>you enjoy it?
10:41*czr nods
10:41<pharaun>czr: cuz i gnaws on the log everytime i feel insanity coming :)
10:41<czr>pharaun, it helps?
10:41<pharaun>czr: i guess :)
10:41<amitz>megatron27: HAHAHA
10:41*czr writes it down
10:43<megatron27>amitz, get one
10:43<pharaun>megatron27: -_- wtf is that thing >_>
10:44<amitz>megatron27: recent machines tend to be like that, that is to move around such that you're forced to use your muscle to keep your balance/position. Good machine will make the whole process fun, with theme, and only requires using a very limited set of muscles. I seriously admire people who invent these kind of stuff, the better ones.
10:44<megatron27>pharaun, it's an exercise machine
10:44<superdug>amitz: meh, I'm just making a 100% digital copy of my soul
10:44<pharaun>megatron27: i know but still just 0_o
10:45<amitz>superdug: say wat?
10:45<superdug>amitz: digitise my soul
10:45<amitz>megatron27: but yeah, this one is very lol-ing :-p
10:45<pharaun>superdug: but the question is, if you copy your soul to another machine then delete one copy, are you still you? :-p
10:45<pharaun>what if you have multiple copies, which is you?
10:46<superdug>pharaun: better question, can the world actually handle an n+1 "superdug situation"
10:46<superdug>the answer to that question, is simply, no
10:46<megatron27>my soul has a sha1sum of 8db9fc71022793eab9e700f5acf74640588cb598 so you'll know when you see me
10:47<pharaun>superdug: well if you accept the multiple-universe theorm, then yes/no :) it will spilt into 2, one that can, one that cannot :-p
10:47<czr>pharaun, that isn't even an interesting question. an interesting question is whether your original copy is you.
10:47<pharaun>czr: heh i knew i misquoted it somehow, :-p
10:47<amitz>damn, my wife told me it's been sold for god knows when....
10:47<superdug>pharaun: support it, hell I embrace it, while I fully intend to make a digital perfect copy of myself, I'm not entirely sure how the hell I'm going to do it, but it will use linodes
10:48<czr>I wasn't aware of any quoting :-).
10:48<superdug>lots and lots of linodes
10:48<pharaun>czr: heh i read something like that, years ago, and was paraphasing it sort of
10:48*czr nods
10:48<pharaun>superdug: haha, linode++ :)
10:49<pharaun>wonders when i'm in 100% digital format, if i can setup a git repo of my soul/mind and branch and rebase as needed :)
10:50<czr>pharaun, of course
10:51<czr>but again, how would you know that you had?
10:51<czr>it's similar to fork(), except one that returns void.
10:52<czr>oh nice. only 400 errors during build
10:52<amitz>that topic.. way too much to talk about. /me find something to consume today's quota.
10:52*czr gnaws on logs for a while
10:53<czr>ah. "unterminated argument list gone wild".
10:53*pharaun pats czr back, there there, it'll be ok
10:53<pharaun>i just hope its not java :3
10:54<czr>yeah, no logs would help there
10:54<czr>(it's C)
10:54<pharaun>ah fun
10:54<amitz>C debugging is probably like SQL debugging, there is an error but the error message barely helpful :-p
10:54<pharaun>amitz: better than c++ and templates
10:54<czr>neh. always start with the first one
10:54<pharaun>god help you
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10:56<czr>oh, it's not a biggie. the problem is debugging since the code runs on CPUs with just ~1KiB RAM
10:56<amitz>I meant, "There is something wrong near these words", WHAT! There really is no intent by the db companies to make a better error message.
10:56<czr>so the debugging options are rather limited :-)
10:56<pharaun>czr: oh embedded devel?
10:57<pharaun>yeah those can be a major bitch
10:57<czr>but I tend to pull out new code into something I can test separately before pushing it into the target
10:57<pharaun>did a few courses on embedded devel, for as much fun as it is, its still a bitch to debug
10:57<czr>that way one can do proper test vectors and all that.
10:58<czr>in theory, my code is crossable to run on Linux directly. in practice, I haven't really updated the linux specific parts of the platform dependant stuff, so it's not..
10:58<amitz>czr: look at the bright side. it's a job with relatively high job security? ;-)
10:58<czr>amitz, probably, however job security never was of interest to me.
10:58<czr>it's a fun project.
10:58<pharaun>in theory if you abstract the HAL well on embedded system, it can be less... painful to test :)
10:58<czr>a lot of interesting problems.
10:59<pharaun>but ofc that's not including the fun hardware quirks/bugs
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10:59<pharaun>need to get off my butt and buy a couple of embedded board and have a go at it, got a few ideas i want to try out
10:59<czr>it is abstrated well. I just haven't kept up the linux "target" up with the changes that I've done to the other targets (AVR and ARM)
10:59<pharaun>hows arm programming?
11:00<czr>compared to what? and what kind of arm programming?
11:00<pharaun>only really done a bit of avr and some older hc*something*
11:00<czr>hc sounds like hitachi. avr is simpler than most ARM SoCs
11:00<czr>(bare-metal ARM that is)
11:01<czr>although the smaller cortexes might make things easier now
11:01<czr>esp wrt interrupt handling
11:01<pharaun>thats what i was wondering about
11:01<czr>with larger ARMs you'll get caches and mmu and all that crap.
11:01<pharaun>oh yeah
11:02<pharaun>haven't dealt with caches/mmu/etc
11:02<czr>smaller ARMs are ok, but still more complex than AVRs
11:02<pharaun>i kind of like AVR from what i've used
11:02<pharaun>haven't tried PIC but heard they were so quirky
11:02<czr>avr is ok for 8-bit stuff. anything else it starts creaking quite heavily
11:02<czr>well, we can't use PICs. no linux support.
11:02<pharaun>oh really?
11:03<pharaun>well out the window that idea goes then :)
11:03<czr>well, there might be some proprietary packaging of eclipse and prop commercial compilers and such
11:03<czr>but I want to keep everything based on publicly available gcc/binutils.
11:03<pharaun>yeah makes sense
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11:05<czr>our most complex design so far is around G45. ARM9 core @ 400MHz with DDR2.
11:05<czr>and I'm trying to keep it at that. getting anything more complex than that will drive me completely crazy.
11:06<straterra>Hmm..Are the Lord of the Rings books any good? I'm wanting to buy some ebooks..but its a toss up between LOTR and HGTTG
11:06-!-Xobb [~xobb@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:06<czr>straterra, LOTR takes some time to warm up
11:06<czr>HGTTG warms up pretty quickly
11:06<pharaun>its... good but *REALLY* SLOW
11:07<pharaun>you'll have to endure pages and pages of just... i guess boilerplate stuff
11:07<czr>lorem ipsum lorem ipsum...
11:07<straterra>10 pages about the green grass?
11:07<straterra>That's how the damn movies are
11:07<pharaun>till you start to get into the story/etc, I read them all once when i was a kid, and have all of the books, still haven't have the desire to re-read yet
11:07<czr>about geneology and stuff like that
11:07<pharaun>straterra: pretty much,
11:07<straterra>HGTTG it is
11:07<pharaun>good story, adds in some nice details/background from the movie
11:08<pharaun>but yeah its just slow
11:08<pharaun>er i worded that pretty badly, what i mean it adds some more details and background to the story than the movies did
11:08<czr>I made a cardinal mistake yesternight. finally finished a book that kept me awake for many nights (The Skinner, by Neil Asher, very nice). well. instead of getting sleep.. I started another book. gahh.
11:08<JshWright>straterra: I'd suggest C.S. Lewis
11:08*czr hates books
11:08<straterra>JshWright: eeeehhhh
11:08<JshWright>either the Narnia series, or the Space trilogy
11:08<straterra>I've read enough C.S. Lewis books to want me to kill myself
11:09<straterra>Narnia was...ok
11:09<@Perihelion>Narnia <3
11:09<pharaun>czr: heh i've been reading a ton of ebooks lately, on book 6 of the honor harrington series, out of uhh.... however many ha
11:09<@Perihelion>It was 9001 times better if you read it when you were young
11:09<straterra>But every time I hear C.S. Lewis, I think of The Screwtape Letters
11:09<@Perihelion>I read it again as an adult and wasn't as impressed.
11:09<czr>pharaun, I've yet to purchase my first ebook.
11:09<JshWright>straterra: Screwtape is probably in my top-10 list
11:09<JshWright>well, top-25
11:09<pharaun>czr: heh mine was all from the baen free library \o/
11:10<czr>or rather, I have a lot of ora pdfs, but that's technical stuff. literature = paper.
11:10<straterra>JshWright: seriously?
11:10<czr>pharaun, I worded it badly. paper++.
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11:10<straterra>I found the presentation interesting, but found the actual content kind of droning
11:10<czr>although, maybe I should try kindle or whathaveyounot.
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11:10<pharaun>czr: yeah i have a ton of books at home but no way to bring it here so i end up getting a kindle and am re-reading several series that i wanted to re-read but the books were at my parents house in storage
11:10<jordanb>Did they remove the ability to login to the console via ssh?
11:10<czr>pharaun, makes sense.
11:10<@Perihelion>jordanb: No
11:11<pharaun>czr: so in the end was just easier to get a kindle, stuff it full of books/etc so yeah :) it works pretty well actually, i was impressed, plus the price has dropped like 150$ for a kindle or so
11:11<JshWright>straterra: read The Great Divorce?
11:11<jordanb>murat[~]> ssh
11:11<jordanb>'s password:
11:11<jordanb>Permission denied, please try again.
11:11<czr>pharaun, I friend at work has been quite impressed with it
11:11<czr>I might give it a shot. but still, I like my books.. I can't cuddle with kindle the same way I do with real books
11:12<JshWright>jordanb: that's almost certainly the wrong username
11:12<pharaun>czr: yeah, i just wish there was a..... cheaper way of re-building my entire library into ebook format, there's just something... awesome about being able to carry a whole library with you :)
11:12<czr>pharaun, noted.
11:12<pharaun>czr: so that was the whole idea behind it :)
11:12<@Perihelion>jordanb: Are you using the right password? It's a different one from your login
11:12<pharaun>i still probably will buy a ton of books, but mainly hardback
11:12<pharaun>for the series that i like
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11:12<czr>pharaun, yup. I almost did the switch some years back when I almost moved to NYC after a job
11:12<jordanb>JshWright: That used to work, you login with your linode.come account username and password, on the host where your linode is located
11:12<czr>but immigration politics stopped that project :-).
11:12<pharaun>probably will become more of ebook/hardback vs the current allocation of paperback/hardback
11:13<pharaun>but who knows, need to look into a book scanner of some sort, would help getting some of my books into ebook format, but not sure if its a realstic idea
11:13<@Perihelion>jordanb: See PM
11:13<JshWright>jordanb: lish has always been linodeid@host
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11:13<amitz>pharaun: it will destroy your book... book scanner.
11:14<pharaun>czr: yeah i'm thinking of looking into buying one of those... leather cover or something to simulate a book, more comfortable to hold, but the kindle isn't too bad so far :)
11:14<czr>pharaun, my best bet was physically cutting the "glue back side" of books with large "guillotuines" that they use in prints, then feed the papers through a copying machine (that doubles as a scanner). completely desctructive process though.
11:14<pharaun>amitz: i've seen some... non-destructive ones
11:14<amitz>pharaun: oh....
11:14<czr>pharaun, get one with the reading light in it (led)
11:14<pharaun>but those probably are going to be slow :-\
11:14<straterra>I hate Amazon's book store sometimes
11:14<pharaun>czr: yeah i have one but its a cliponm, does not work very well but its enough for the time being
11:14*czr nods
11:15<czr>I can ask a friend what he got. he's happy with it at least
11:15<pharaun>never liked book lights myself, just seems awkward/etc but with the kindle... it might work well cos it'll be built into the cover/etc
11:15<pharaun>and the kindle is still lighter than my hardback for most part, a bit heavier/larger than paperback, decent compromise
11:15<_stink_work>hey folks - i'd like to deploy a second distribution on my linode, using disk space that is left unallocated. then i plan to mount the drive from the first configuration i did (long ago) on the new one to help move stuff over. i can't tell how to deploy the second distro onto the free space. any advice?
11:15<straterra>WTF is the different between and ?
11:15<czr>pharaun, I just wish it would have larger screen.
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11:16<pharaun>czr: indeed, there's the kindle dx.... almost got that but too big
11:16<pharaun>czr: i wanted something that i could stick in my pocket and take with me on the go
11:16<amitz>_stink_work: have you shrinked your first distrubution as to provide space for the second distribution?
11:16<czr>I'm still undecided. ipad is too large at least
11:16<czr>(as a size factor that is)
11:16<straterra>The 3g Kindle is AWESOME
11:16<pharaun>straterra: ohh, i think first one the hitchhiker is just one book, the other one is the full series
11:16<pharaun>i don't like ipad
11:17<amitz>Samsung Galaxy Tab, but not that pleasing to the eyes.
11:17<pharaun>its too heavy 1.5 lb, and etc
11:17<straterra>I bought two for christmas gifts..its just as reading paper
11:17<amitz>compared to kindle.
11:17<czr>amitz, ugh, really didn't like that one
11:17<straterra>And battery lasts forever
11:17<_stink_work>amitz: yep, there's room. not sure if i need to create a new disk in that unallocated drive space or if the deployment stuff does that for me
11:17<czr>the form factor was ok, but the UI-experience was complete crap
11:17<pharaun>straterra: amen, that's one of the biggest motivation for the kindle, the smaller format factor, the weight, the ... pretty much forever battery, etc.. :)
11:17<straterra>pharaun: the ultimate is only 832 pages :/
11:17<czr>yeah. eink <3.
11:18<pharaun>straterra: almost just like paper :) only thing that annoys me is its somewhat like a shinny paper so in direct light it glares a bit :-\ but otherwise its awesome
11:18<czr>pharaun, this was the one that the friend got
11:18<pharaun>i don't get why haters hates on eink, the whole idea is just awesome and it does not make my eyes bleed like LCD does
11:18<amitz>_stink_work: if I get your q correctly, you make a new disk on that unallocated drive space. But the fact that you're confused with this, makes me unsure that I get your question right...
11:18<pharaun>straterra: oh only 832? 0_o
11:18<pharaun>straterra: oh the other one is 208 and the ulitmate is 832 pages
11:19<czr>larger font.
11:19<pharaun>czr: oh haha yes, that was the one i was thinking of getting
11:19<pharaun>czr: eh? both are ebook, and kindle allows you to resize the fonts
11:19<czr>pharaun, joke
11:19<pharaun>czr: oh :)
11:20<_stink_work>amitz: maybe i'm not explaining it well. i did create a new disk in the unallocated space, but when i go to deploy a new distro, i don't see a way to choose the new drive as a "target"
11:20<pharaun><--- is too literal sometime
11:20<pharaun>I'm just happy that the kindle is not one of those damn touch screen ebook reader, seen some, and they have finger oil smugles all over the damn place, but man the touchscreen thing kind of annoys me why
11:21<pharaun>everytime someone wants to look at the kindle, i hand it to them and first thing they do is start jabbing and poking the screen and smearing their finger shite all over the screen *SIIIGH*
11:21<straterra>If you have a kindle, get one of these..
11:21<straterra>ITS ESSENTIAL
11:21<straterra>Pulls power from the Kindle for a LED light
11:22<JshWright>straterra: wrong link
11:22<czr>heh. good one though ;-)
11:22<pharaun>straterra: ... you just linked me to the ultimate hitchliker
11:22<czr>deja vu
11:22<straterra>Stupid copy
11:22<pharaun>straterra: haha yes, i'm thinking of getting one of those :)
11:22<pharaun>straterra: btw czr posted that link a bit earlier ^^ :-p
11:22<straterra>pharaun: They are incredibly nice..great quality, looks good, feels good and you get a light
11:23<pharaun>indeed, i'm usually not a fan of lights/etc on my books, but in that format, and etc i might have to get one, it looks really nice :)
11:23<JshWright>does the light illuminate the display evenly enough?
11:23<pharaun>JshWright: in my experience, as long as you have some amount of lighting, and its not direct spotlight, its usually enough for reading on the kindle
11:24<straterra>JshWright: It's not 100% even, but you can see everything
11:24<pharaun>straterra: hows the glare?
11:25<amitz>_stink_work: some of my next ideas are coming from my memory, so double check is mandatory. I think you deploy a new distro instead of just creating another disk image.
11:25<pharaun>straterra: i've had some problems with overly bright light or spot light reflecting back enough to make it annoying
11:25<amitz>or you can create a boot profile to use your newly made disk image.
11:25<straterra>It works great
11:26<pharaun>sweetness :)
11:27<_stink_work>amitz: ah, ok. thanks for the advice!
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11:29<czr>right. here goes nothing /me starts testing on the real hardware again
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11:30<pharaun>good luck :-p
11:30<czr>I'm rewriting the digital io input side of pretty much all the lower level stuff that we have
11:31<czr>so, it would be nice if it would work. otherwise bad things will happen :-).
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11:33<pharaun> <--- i think its a warning signal that i can actually understand all of the buzz word in that *sigh*
11:33<amitz>_stink_work: np
11:35<amitz>pharaun: hahah
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11:44<czr>bah. doesn't work :-(. /me is sad..
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11:46<amitz>there is tomorrow.
11:47<amitz>and the day after ;-) if necessary
11:47<czr>or.. I could just push it into mainline and see how systems will fall down around finland.
11:47<czr>if I would be evilly inclined.
11:48<czr>I blame it on.. gnawing logs.
11:48<czr>didn't suit me it seems.
11:50<pharaun>czr: hehe each for their own i guess :)
11:50<pharaun>i wonder what's avail for lunch today hmm
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11:58<czr>bleh. I need to write better test framework for it.
11:58<czr>that can indeed wait until tomorrow.
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11:58<czr>so, cheerio #linode ->
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12:26<Ethelim>changing collation of one database field boosted the i/o rate to over 2k -_-
12:29<HoopyCat>Assuming "field" is a column | Use "field" as a pasture instead
12:29<HoopyCat>Assuming "database" is a MySQL database | Use "database" as a word instead
12:30<HoopyCat>Ethelim: just during the update, or ongoing?
12:30<Ethelim>just right now while I'm fixing the collation, the rest of the time i/o is minimal
12:31<Ethelim>phpmyadmin keeps making me call it field
12:31<blognewb>does anyone happen to know the name of that microinvesting / microfinancing social network site? it's like an eBay / facebook type of site but you bid on loans from people's testimonials. is it hosted by linode?
12:32<HoopyCat>blognewb: Kiva?
12:32<linbot>HoopyCat: IP:; rDNS:; ASN adv net:; ASN: AS8121; ASN owner: TCH Network Services; ASN reg: 1997-04-17; Abuse contact:; Net owner: Silicon Valley Colocation, Inc.; City: Mountain View; State: California; Postal code: 94039; Country: US; Domains: 3;
12:32<HoopyCat>and probably not
12:32<Ethelim>there's pledgebank
12:32<blognewb>hm no
12:32<Ethelim>and another one
12:33<blognewb>i guess the term i am looking for is *peer lending* websites
12:33<Null_>quick ircd question. There an easy way to disable the /nick command? Would prefer users can't change their nicks, at all. I'm currently using hybrid-ircd
12:33<blognewb>oh i think its one of them
12:34<Ethelim>HoopyCat: strangely enough I got that warning only on the production linode, not on the development one which actually has a slightly bigger database
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12:36<Ethelim>blognewb: is another one
12:36<blognewb>Ethelim hey which one came out within the time prosper launched?
12:37<Ethelim>I wouldn't know, not familiar with prosper
12:37<HoopyCat>kickstarter isn't so much lending as it is granting
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12:38<HoopyCat>Ethelim: if phpmyadmin calls columns "fields", what does it call rows?
12:38<blognewb>HoopyCat what do you think of such investment?
12:38<blognewb>good returen?
12:39<Ethelim>it calls them rows :P
12:39<HoopyCat>Ethelim: well that's just silly :-)
12:39<Ethelim>wrong tree mista :P
12:40<HoopyCat>blognewb: dunno. i've only used kickstarter as a donor, and i think it worked well. ($0 return, but a project i enjoy got the money it needed)
12:40<blognewb>what? phpmyadmin calls columns fields?
12:40<blognewb>oh right
12:40<blognewb>HoopyCat you're too kind
12:41<tjfontaine>too kind to urmom
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12:42<HoopyCat>blognewb: i chucked in the equivalent of a few hours' work to support someone else's endeavour to do something i want to have done :-)
12:42-!-Gika [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:42<HoopyCat>thereby saving myself... hundreds of hours
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12:43<HoopyCat>mind you, it's actual software and not something like a nanorobotic beard trimmer
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12:43<blognewb>wait what?
12:46<blognewb>so it's someone else's project, and not that you outsourced a particular work?
12:48<JshWright>When I left my office to go downstairs for a drink, the dog was lying on her bed, and the cat was lying on a windbreaker that had fallen on the floor. When I came back, they had switched places (mind you, the dog's bed is _huge_ for the cat, and the dog looks absurd trying to curl up on a smalling windbreaker)
12:51<JshWright>sometimes I don't understand my pets... my guess is the dog got up to follow me, and the cat stole her bed, when the dog got back, she figured it was easier to curl up on the jacket than to try to evict the cat
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12:54<ejp>I think the dog made the right call
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12:58<pharaun>JshWright: heh that's pretty cute :)
12:58<zweckdev>i cannot ssh to my server
12:58<zweckdev>i dont know is a local problem, or anything else
12:59<zweckdev>can someone help?
13:00<amitz>be more specific on what's the error message is.
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13:06<MJCS>totally not a linode question (but how many of mine really are). Does anyone here have a full img or iso of a bartpe with malware removal utils installed?
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13:19<tjfontaine>I believe that's called format and reinstall
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13:32<JshWright>the backwards cat and dog:
13:32<pharaun>JshWright: haha cute :)
13:32<tjfontaine>why do they always do that
13:32<tjfontaine>I am dog, I fit tiny
13:33<tjfontaine>queen cat need space
13:33<JshWright>unless it's a box... then the smaller the better for the cat
13:34<@Perihelion>Ours used to sleep in paper bags that we left on the floor
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14:06<linbot>New news from forums: Can not find /dev/fd/3 in General Discussion <>
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14:30*nDuff steals the !ask factoid from linbot for freenode's #bash
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14:34<tjfontaine>you owe linode a nickel for each invocation
14:35<pharaun>jesus christ, just lost a few hour of code work
14:35<pharaun>fucking clearcase
14:36<pharaun>was able to rebuild and redo it quickly that i knew what I was doing, but i wish we used GIT or something nicer that would allow me to do local commits then smash em together into a nice feature commit and deliver that
14:36<Peng>You could run git in your ClearCase repo thingy, no?
14:36<tjfontaine>feature branches?
14:37<pharaun>not sure if i could in clearcase
14:37<pharaun>its really fussy
14:37<bob2>oh clearcase
14:38<pharaun>Peng: what you mean? what I tend to do in GIT is that i will do multiple local commit till a feature is complete, then squash it together into one commit for "that" feature
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14:38<sirpengi>then why not just do that? except you'll be sending the patches to yourself for applying to the cc repo
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14:39<sirpengi>also, no idea how mature this is:
14:39<pharaun>sirpengi: its a very heavyweight project, like.... last time i checked, 600,000+ in my project repo alone
14:39<Peng>I don't know anything about ClearCase.
14:39<pharaun>sirpengi: yeah it won't work, on the git-cc i've looked, but we are doing specalized setup with clearcase ugh
14:39<Peng>pharaun: You could just track the files you're currently working on in git.
14:40<pharaun>Peng: i can try, its windows :[
14:40<Peng>tjfontaine: Like Apple, only with a G!
14:40<tjfontaine>Peng: o g gangsta
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14:40<tjfontaine>g - UNIT
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14:40<pharaun>Peng: i personally liked the pun - iRon Man :-p
14:40<linbot>New news from forums: Cannot boot stock Fedora 13 kernel under PV_GRUB in General Discussion <>
14:41<pharaun>well, all of my unit tests has passed, so that means i'm back to where i was before this code idiotdump
14:42<pharaun>going to have to see how hard it is to get git to work with clearcase
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14:46<pharaun>well... yay for unit tests, it all passes :-D let's get this son of a bitch delivered and i'm done!
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14:58<sirpengi>done for?
14:58<pharaun>the feature/project/whatever, it has been dragging on for a while (work)
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15:18<linbot>New news from forums: Compressing Javascript files. in Performance and Tuning <>
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16:14<straterra>jed: Yo dawg, I heard you like I put OVPN over your GRE so you can shrink your MTU while you shrink your MTU.
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16:14<Nivex>gah! ircnet crosstalk!
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16:15<tjfontaine>Nivex: killl
16:15-!-Dreamer3 [] has quit []
16:15<straterra>Nivex: YOU CROSSED THE STREAMS
16:16<Nivex>tjfontaine: go ahead and kill straterra
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16:16<tjfontaine>/kill straterra decontaminated
16:17<Getty>straterra: damn i just watched it some days ago ;)
16:19<straterra>tjfontaine: I think this is the only channel I'm on OFTC for :/
16:19*jed convulses
16:19<pharaun>I'm in two!
16:19<straterra>tjfontaine: Can you tell if I'm using IPv6/SSL
16:19<tjfontaine>straterra: yes to both
16:19<straterra>And what chans I'm in?
16:20<tjfontaine>just linod
16:20<straterra>MY LINODES ARE SECURE
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16:21<Nivex>two on oftc, seven on freenode
16:21<straterra>I have 42 windows open in irssi atm :/
16:21<@jed>tcpdump -ni straterra0 -c 1000 port 6667
16:22<@jed>oops, ww
16:22<straterra>jed: It's SSL.. try 7000
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16:23<straterra>I'm a little depressed..all of my ipv6 traffic is incoming DNS (for some reason), and IRC
16:24<Steve^>0.2% of the world uses IPv6
16:24<Steve^>People don't seem too bothered
16:24<Nivex>it will be interesting to watch that number skyrocket
16:24<Steve^>I'm not yet sure what I need to do to become IPv6 compliant
16:25<ejp>I still think you'll see a lot more NATs before you see IPv6
16:25<Steve^>Google IPv6 and the 8th result is "Microsoft Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)"
16:26<ejp>oddly enough the only part of my network that can't do 6 is my gateway.
16:26<Steve^> doesn't have a section for little me
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16:26<straterra>Mine is a print server
16:26<ejp>oh, you know, I bet my old laserjet with jetdirect card doesn't either.
16:27<Nivex>ejp: CGN will be a disaster
16:27<ejp>it's not like my internal network *needs* to be 6.
16:28<Nivex>ejp: not at the moment, but it is wise to start learning now
16:28<ejp>I'm all win7, so drop a RA on the network somewhere and off it goes.
16:28<Steve^>So, do I need to do anything?
16:29<Steve^>dig -6 gives a depressingly v4 result
16:30<ejp>I figure in the short term to play with it I'd forward proto41 through my gateway to my linux box and use that for 6 access
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16:38*pharaun mmmm bacon
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16:39<Peng>Netflix can stream over IPv6, so you can use bandwidth. (Just not on Linux, bah!) And there are those v6 news servers...
16:40<pharaun>i wonder if the wrt54g default firmware can deal with ipv6
16:40<pharaun>everything else i got i think does ipv6 np
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16:42<Peng>Also, apparently YouTube does v6, if you're in the Google v6 DNS program.
16:43<pharaun>i'm using
16:47<straterra>pharaun: no
16:47<straterra>WRT wrt54g default firmware
16:48<pharaun>straterra: on wrt54g? yeah, i figured, its easy enough to flash it anyway, was just wondering, was using it as an accesspoint anyway
16:48<straterra>I don't think the 360 uses ipv6 for its netflix
16:48<straterra>It'd be very nice if it did, but I doubt it
16:48<pharaun>probably ipv4
16:49<pharaun>won't be surprised if ISP either start to NAT their consumers, or provide some sort of modem/router that does all the ipv6/4 bs so that the customer computer/network can just keep on working with ipv4
16:49<pharaun>really should sit down and figure out the comcast ipv6 thing
16:49<straterra>Cue DOCSIS 3
16:49<pharaun>yeah i think comcast is mostly docsis3
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16:57<pharaun>I need to put a sticker on my kindle3 - "THIS IS NOT A TOUCH ENABLED DEVICE, HANDS OFF"
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16:58<mbreslin>pharaun: just make a screensaver with those words on it, people will think it's a sticker
16:58<Nivex>right now the best thing is dual stack. nat the heck out of your v4 if you absolutely must, use v6 for end to end
16:59<mbreslin>i don't know about you but the instructions or whatever that come on the kindle3 i tried to peel it off for a few minutes
16:59<Nivex>eventually everyone will realize that nat is the damn devil and it will go away
16:59<mbreslin>e-ink is pretty amazing
16:59<pharaun>i already got a HE tunnel on my desktop, outta to push it on over to my router and turn everything into ipv6
16:59<pharaun>mbreslin: indeed it is :) when i pulled it out i was awed at how detailed/awesome it was
17:00<mbreslin>i told my wife about trying to peel it off, she goes wait so that's not a sticker
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17:00<pharaun>mbreslin: you know you have a good eink when people think its a label :)
17:01<mbreslin>i certainly did
17:01<mbreslin>connect to usb or whatever
17:01<mbreslin>i'm like how do i get this off
17:01<pharaun>yeah, haha the connect it to usb clued me in cos when i got it it changed a bit and i was like oh
17:01<mbreslin>then you plug it in and the screen flashes
17:01<mbreslin>WTF AWESOME
17:01<mbreslin>IT WAS EINK
17:02<pharaun>and you got to admit that they did a really nice job of boxing it
17:02<pharaun>almost like an "apple" package experience
17:02<mbreslin>i guess
17:02<mbreslin>everything comes like that now
17:02<mbreslin>all iphoned up
17:02<pharaun>you know how apple like to obess about package/etc i'm like >_>
17:02<tjfontaine>IPHONE IS NOT A VERB
17:02<tjfontaine>tellem caker
17:02<Karrde>is setup?
17:02<pharaun>was expecting it to come in a brown box with that fuck off plastic seal
17:02*jed iphoneings
17:03*Karrde snows
17:03<pharaun>i have a 3 inch knife that i reserve for that hated plastic shrink seal
17:03<mbreslin>it's horrible
17:03<pharaun>indeed, my best experience recently was the lacie rikiki drive
17:03<mbreslin>remote controls and batteries and other crap
17:03<pharaun>it was sealed with massive plastic package, took me several minutes and multiple vicious stabs to make it break open
17:04<mbreslin>the ultimate irony is that rubik's cubes come in that
17:04<pharaun>hahahah ow
17:04<mbreslin>not only can you not solve this you loser you can't even open the package
17:04<mbreslin>just return it you suck
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17:05<ejp>pharaun: even reflashed to dd-wrt doing ipv6 on a wrt54g is...tricksey.
17:05<ejp>and tomato doesn't support it all.
17:06<pharaun>ejp: oh? all i need is to be able to hit it via say ssh/webconfig beside i am just using it as an accesspoint for the laptop/wifi only devices
17:06<mbreslin>don't you need to be able to point your tunnel at a real nameserver
17:06<mbreslin>ie not on your router
17:06<pharaun>i have dns cache server
17:06<tjfontaine>ejp: <-- does
17:07<tjfontaine>[also does ovpn]
17:07<pharaun>so i figured as long as i can ssh to it via say ipv6 and pass ipv6 traffic through it would be ok
17:07<ejp>tjfontaine: ooooh
17:07<ejp>pharaun: the kernel on a lot of builds/images doesn't support v6.
17:07<mbreslin>i gave my rev1 wrt54g away when i switched to 11n
17:08<ejp>neither does the userspace
17:08<pharaun>ejp: ew
17:08<pharaun>guess i could build a ipv6 kernel but would be a pain
17:08<ejp>mbreslin: yeah, I'm close to getting a 3000 or 610N and telling the ancient wrt53g to foad.
17:08<mbreslin>i have one of the draft ones
17:08<mbreslin>whatever it is
17:08<mbreslin>or 600n some crap
17:08<pharaun>i also have the asus 300 something, its awesome
17:09<pharaun>used it as an dualwan router for a while, the wifi wasn't great from what i heard
17:09<mbreslin>it blows up when i torrent+stream to ps3 so it can die
17:09<pharaun>openwrt :-p
17:09<mbreslin>i may switch to the newer one
17:09<mbreslin>c3000 or whatever
17:10<mbreslin>there we go that's what i have
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17:14<mbreslin>tomato usb looks promising guess i'll try that today
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17:24<Yaakov>LOVESHACK OUT
17:24*pharaun blinks
17:25<Peng>It must mean something has happened to Julian Assange!
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17:33<ejp>yeah, tomatousb looks pretty good.
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17:38<disinpho>any css sharks around?
17:39<disinpho>im having this awful problem when users dont have the first font in my font-family - with letterspacing and such - is there anything i can do to format differently when users fallback on secondary fonts
17:39<disinpho>ive already given up on google font api
17:39<disinpho>looks like crap on windows
17:39<@jed>font-family: "First Choice", "Second Choice"?
17:40<@jed>you can fall back on google font API, too
17:40<@jed>font-family: "First Choice", "Something from Google Font API";
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17:40<@caker>I think he wants to do other css formatting based on if the first font isn't there
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17:40<@jed>oh, durp
17:40<disinpho>yea, but their fonts dont seem to fit in x-height with any of the standard font families
17:41<disinpho>so i kinda dont wanna use google api at all
17:41<@jed>somehow walked away with "how do I fallback on secondary fonts"
17:41<disinpho>i did considder that too
17:41<pharaun>don't think you really can do that, unless you do some JS, but even with js, you really can't identify what font is being used
17:41<@jed>yeah, rough.
17:41<pharaun>I've had similar problems sometime so yeah it can be rough
17:41<disinpho>i think i heard of some obscure dynamic letterspacing but im not sure if thats css3 or just my memory
17:42<ejp>all you can really do is spec a font list that are all more-or-less compatible.
17:42-!-Jere [] has left #linode []
17:42<ejp>or use cufon for everything. :P
17:42<pharaun>yes you can do some spacing/letterspace/etc but can't do it on a per font basis
17:42<disinpho>and that rules out being original in any way
17:42<disinpho>and doing proper typography
17:42<ejp>doing spacing in em helps too.
17:42<pharaun>you can do some typography/etc but after a certain point
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17:42<pharaun>its just up to the user's browser
17:42<@jed>yeah, the ex/em units are really useful
17:43<pharaun>yeah i use em all the time myself
17:43<disinpho>ejp: yes but i have spacing in em, and when the user falls back to the second font in the font family its not nearly enough spacing
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17:45<ejp>disinpho: ah, narrower glyphs?
17:45<ejp>sounds like you may just need to pick fonts that are more similar.
17:46<ejp>otherwise it's always going to look like crap at some point.
17:46<pharaun>pretty much
17:46<@jed>might be worth it to consider not setting spacing, too
17:46<pharaun>I've ran into that problem, I've found some fonts that i liked the look of but couldn't find the copy of the ttf/etc for linux :-\
17:46<pharaun>and the linux equivalent were yeah
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17:48<sirpengi>there's no such thing as proper typography on the web anyhow
17:49<sirpengi>so you should forget your dreams of achieving it
17:49<pharaun>sirpengi: can be bit tricky to forget ;) i do want a site to look decent
17:49<ejp>I end up doing a mix of cufon for headers/logo text/etc, and just picking a decent looking font family spec for everything else.
17:49<sirpengi>then you should work around what you have available. that generally means using web-safe fonts
17:50<sirpengi>otherwise, you use web-fonts and be all new-age
17:50<pharaun>heh indeed
17:50<pharaun>oh cufon? hahaha flash?
17:50<ejp>no flash, just js.
17:50<ejp>works really well IME
17:51-!-dajhorn [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206121716]]
17:51<sirpengi>that sorta breaks selecting/copying text from the page though
17:51<ejp>but like it says in the docs, you lose some things like selections.
17:51<pharaun>yeah that's what i was wondering
17:52<ejp>again, I only use it for headers/company name, stuff like that.
17:52<pharaun>would probably work good for like menu/header/etc
17:52<ejp>all content is normal text
17:52<pharaun>seem interesting enough might try it for a logo
17:52<sirpengi>I still just use graphic elements for those
17:52<sirpengi>I tend not to stick fancy type in headers and menus though
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17:53<pharaun>my header is just my site name :-p
17:53<pharaun>so was kind of wanting to spiffy it up a little
17:54<sirpengi>just use an image
17:54<pharaun>site is currently almost 100% image free ;)
17:55<sirpengi>that doesn't win you any achievments
17:55<pharaun>oh i know, its just a personal site
17:55<bob2>cufon doesn't really break copy, it just makes it a bit shit
17:55<pharaun>so just playing around with various stuff to learn webdev/etc never done much webdev
17:55<linbot>New news from forums: No more PTYs in General Discussion <>
17:57<sirpengi>if your image is under 32k you can base64 encode it and stick it directly in the page
17:57<pharaun>you can? 0_o
17:57<sirpengi>well, you can base64 encode any image
17:57<sirpengi>but IE breaks if the image is larger than 32k
17:57<sirpengi>all other browsers that I know of support a pretty much unlimited size
17:57<pharaun>interesting, didn't know that
17:57<BlandSauce>I only once used a base64 image, for a greasemonkey script
17:58<sirpengi>it triples the footprint of the image though
17:58<sirpengi>but you have one less request
17:58<pharaun>XD hahaha ouch
17:58<pharaun>yeah i haven't done any css/js minimify stuff yet, outta to put it in my build script for deployment
17:58<sirpengi>I tried that for my personal landing page
17:59<sirpengi>I think I still have some elements in base64. other stuff was too big and broke in ie
17:59<pharaun>but its not like i have much or any js at all anyway
17:59<@caker>li_new-134975-0 li_new-134975-1 li_new-134977-0 li_new-134984-0 li_new-135002-0
17:59<pharaun>i would think that if it was a bunch of elements it would in the end be better to just use sprite and load one image request?
17:59<@caker>I done break signupping :(
17:59<stinebd>blame mikegrb's perl
18:00<@caker>also, ww
18:00<stinebd>and canada
18:00<sirpengi>pharaun: yeah, if you've already got graphic elements that you can't base64 encode you might as well use a sprite
18:00<ejp>fucking canada *shakes fist*
18:00<sirpengi>pharaun: but then things like a repeating background texture can't be pulled off of a sprite sheet
18:01<stinebd>sprite is liquid, it can't be sheeted
18:01<BlandSauce>sprite is fairy, can't be sheeted
18:01<Peng>What does "ww" mean?
18:02<Fieldy>wang whacker?
18:02<pharaun>sirpengi: oh right, yeah repeating background,
18:02<ejp>pharaun: wong window I'd guess.
18:03<ejp>er, ^Peng
18:03<sirpengi>yeah. I'm all for typography. one of my passions is doing print layout. but there's just no such thing as typography on the web
18:03<Peng>ejp: Ohhhh.
18:04<pharaun>sirpengi: yeah, i'm... learning that the hard way, so i'm starting to just try to focus on making my content as reasonable readable as possible, and etc...
18:04<marius>You are welcome.
18:04<sirpengi>no manual kerning, no baseline = suboptimal typography
18:04<pharaun>sirpengi: yeah, that was one of those thing that was pissing me off
18:05<disinpho>cufon looks promising enough, i dont like the others too much tho
18:05<disinpho>because most require external downloads or external plugins
18:05<pharaun>sirpengi: my main problem is i'm looking at the list of recommended web-safe fonts off w3 and it seems like a bunch that i like.... i don't have the damn font files -_- mainly the MAC/apples ones
18:05<sirpengi>I like webfonts. I just don't like the fonts that are available for use as web-fonts
18:06<pharaun>just want to take a look at them and see how they look on the site then tweak the 1st/2nd/3rd/xth font thing to get something that looks alright
18:06-!-Hoggs [] has joined #linode
18:08<pharaun>AWESOME! finally found a nice page on orbital mechanics
18:09<iggy>that's not something you hear everyday
18:10<pharaun>indeed, been wanting to play around with orbital mechanics and etc
18:11<mbreslin>tomato-usb = flashed
18:12<mbreslin>we'll see tonight when i start streaming if it can take it
18:12-!-snubby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
18:14<disinpho>and its really only truetype fonts that have been made specifically for the screen that looks proper on most windows computers
18:16-!-hpj [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:16<pharaun>YES! :3 build completed only took 52 freaking minutes
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18:23<linbot>New news from forums: stream mp3 but protect against download? in General Discussion <>
18:24<pharaun>when will people learn
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18:28<kyhwana>lol, you cant
18:28<mbreslin>sure you can you just have to work at it
18:28<pharaun>you can hide it, make it a bitch, etc...
18:28<pharaun>could do encryption in the flash/etc but in the end
18:28<mbreslin>it'll probably happen right after world peace
18:28<pharaun>someone bored enough will get it out
18:28<sirpengi>it's simple. stream the file but replace all the bits with zeros
18:28<sirpengi>user can't listen to it either. MOAR secure
18:28<pharaun>nice one sirpengi
18:28<mbreslin>sirpengi: i love that song
18:29<mbreslin>the remix is all 1's
18:31-!-mft [~mft@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:32<BlandSauce>Remove all users' computers. That's the first step
18:33<bob2>how's the linode forcast today?
18:34<tjfontaine>*fucking cloudy
18:35<sirpengi>someone announced FreeBSD on amazon EC2 the other day
18:35<sirpengi>we needs that same juice at linode
18:35<tjfontaine>sirpengi: no you still can't have it on linode
18:35<encode>Yaakov: the IT Crowd?
18:35<tjfontaine>sirpengi: the kernel does boot in pvgrub fwiw
18:37<sirpengi>tjfontaine: the dev is making it play nice with Xen
18:37<tjfontaine>what is this "the dev"
18:38<tjfontaine>fbsd on xen isn't exactly new
18:38<sirpengi>well, someone in the comments asks for slicehost support and he expresses a willingness to work with hosts that want to get it running
18:39<checkers>he'll be pushing the code to public fbsd soon enough
18:39-!-CyZooNiC [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:39<checkers>and it's only support for 9.0 note, so useless for another year or two
18:39<tjfontaine>the kernel already boots in pvgrub the "rest" of the work is doing the chroot
18:41-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:41<sirpengi>well, I'm certainly not expecting things to be done in a week. It just seems like the day will eventually come
18:43-!-Fieldy_ [] has joined #linode
18:46<sirpengi>I also figure if a core dev is willing to work with you to get it running and your cost is cooperation that'd be a bonus
18:46<mbreslin>my host has no extra ips, would i need to request a migration or something
18:46<mbreslin>to be able to get one
18:47<sirpengi>though I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there were consultant fees expected
18:47<encode>mbreslin: just file a ticket saying that
18:47<encode>(ie, that you would like to request another IP and your host doesn't seem to have any available)
18:49<BarkerJr>hosts can run out?
18:49<mbreslin>it would seem so
18:49<mbreslin>encode: will do.
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18:52-!-BarkerJr [BarkerJr@2002:1893:7426:1:ca7:66fb:a712:73f0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:52<encode>probably that subnet is full
18:52<encode>and they need to route another subnet to the host
18:54-!-abc_123 [] has quit [Quit: abc_123]
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18:56<pharaun>weeping christ, i hate home grown shit solution
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19:03<pharaun>I need a button that says
19:03<pharaun>STFU FIX IT
19:03<@jed>how about that?
19:03<@jed>I'm saving that one for a rainy day
19:04<pharaun>jed: i like :)
19:06<pharaun>christ, j2ee is too fucking complicated
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19:15<dug>is there trouble with the UK linodes?
19:17<disinpho>mines working fine
19:17<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
19:19<linbot>dug: (mtrlondon <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "web title$1".
19:19<linbot>pharaun: [mtr] 10 hops, te3-1-border76-01.lon2.telec: 60.0%/0.7ms, 60.0%/5.8ms, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms, 40.0%/1.3ms (urmom)
19:20<pharaun>you need to do !mtr + dc + url :)
19:20<dug>thanks guys =]
19:21<dug>has come back up on its own, weird!
19:24-!-BarkerJr [BarkerJr@2002:1893:7426:1:8d3e:6382:887:e887] has joined #linode
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19:28<jordie>that is all.
19:28-!-hercynium [~hercynium@] has joined #linode
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19:36<Alan>00:28 < jordie> I FUCKING LOVE LINODE
19:36<Alan>00:28 < jordie> that is all.
19:36<tjfontaine>it's true.
19:36<Alan>I couldn't agree more
19:36<BarkerJr>that that is all?
19:36<sirpengi>I certainly can
19:37-!-v0lksman [] has joined #linode
19:37<Alan>Also, Linode appears to be the only host in existance that monitors their abuse email address?
19:37<@stan_theman>with intensity
19:37<stinebd>well jed has to do *something* there
19:38<sirpengi>but then I'm just competitive
19:38<Alan>Can't remember the last time I submitted an abuse report and had an actual response (uncanned) outside of 45 minutes...
19:38<@caker>mmmmmmm, tickets!
19:38<Alan>sirpengi: I'm more competitive than you!#
19:38-!-Boohemian [] has joined #linode
19:39<@caker>abuse reports and tickets are the only means of communication with the outside world that we allow for the support staff here at Linode
19:39<@caker>it puts the ticket in the basket
19:39<Alan>Seems like it keeps things nice and streamlined
19:39-!-KBme [] has joined #linode
19:39<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:39<bob2>all irc personas are actually eggdrop bots hooked up to markov chains and bacon generators
19:39<tjfontaine>caker: doesn't work, pparadis likes the hose
19:39<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:39<Alan>mmm bacon
19:40<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:40<Alan>must make bacon vodka some day
19:40<@Perihelion>It rubs the lotion on its skin
19:40<@caker>or it DOESN'T get the hose
19:40<sirpengi>that's why every single day I open a ticket with the latest headlines
19:40<Boohemian>tjfontaine: i have to generate my own ssl certificate to connect to oftc securely?
19:40<Alan>also, the situation is so bad that Linode is the ONLY company i bother with abuse requestns
19:40<tjfontaine>Boohemian: no
19:40<Alan>not worth the time with anybody else
19:40<bob2>Alan: i send all my abuse complaints to linode
19:40<@stan_theman>"Hey guys, sirpengi said that vietnam is over?"
19:40*Perihelion slaps stan_theman around a bit with a large cactus
19:40<hobot>I send all my abuse requests to al gore
19:41<@Perihelion>I think I need to change that alias to say tiny
19:41<tjfontaine>Boohemian: ssl generates a session key regardless, you can generate your own key to be identified by it instead of a password
19:41<Alan>bob2: awesome
19:41<bombshell>ahh, now from trout to cactus
19:41<Boohemian>tjfontaine: what port do i connec to for ssl?
19:41<@Perihelion>I've used "cactus" instead for years
19:41<tjfontaine>6697 or 9999
19:42<MJCS>Perihelion: cactus would probably hurt more on the long run
19:42<BarkerJr>I don't send abuse reports, cause I think internet freedome is for all
19:43<bombshell>we should be less painful =]
19:44<bombshell>My Windows PC is being pwn by applications =] Like firefox
19:45<v0lksman>hey all..wondering if any of you can explain this...Using wire shark I'm seeing packets from an outside source to my NAT'd IP on port 6881, then I see a destination unreachable ICMP packet as a response...then a new IP tries and a new ICMP returned to the new IP...this goes on and on...I don't run a torrent client on this machine and I've shut down the one I run in the network. So what is this? Why is it let past my firewall/NA
19:45<v0lksman>T'ing device?
19:45<bombshell>VM, chrome, and host other applications :s
19:45<bob2>v0lksman: common bittorrent port
19:45<straterra>v0lksman: Whats the IP associated with it?
19:46*bombshell is bored =]
19:46<bob2>v0lksman: people will send crap ti ot long after you stop running bt
19:46<v0lksman>straterra, the source? It's different all the time
19:46<tjfontaine>people just spam common stuff anyway to see where it goes
19:46<v0lksman>bob2, the torrent client never lived on this machine
19:46<straterra>I guess its a "welcome to the internet" type of thing
19:46<bob2>v0lksman: your nat table things it did
19:46<tjfontaine>urips on the trackerz! HUNT DESTROY</mpaa||riaa>
19:46<bob2>assuming you're dumping traffic on the machine and not the router
19:47<v0lksman>nope...on the machine
19:47<straterra>Perihelion: does Linode do filtering on port 445?
19:47<v0lksman>and the dest IP is also correct
19:47<tjfontaine>straterra: linode doesn't do filtering
19:47<straterra>tjfontaine: suuure :P
19:47<straterra>Not even TCP/445?!
19:47<Alan>bob2: damn you, now i'm in a "youtube suggestions" loop
19:47<tjfontaine>straterra: linode doesn't do filtering
19:47<straterra>Well..does NAC do filtering of TCP/445?
19:48<Alan>bob2: where is the emergency exit of the internet?
19:48<tjfontaine>can't imagine why they would
19:48<@Perihelion>straterra: Not to my knowledge
19:48<straterra>tjfontaine: Most ISPs do :/
19:48<straterra>For good reason
19:48<tjfontaine>Alan: command-q or alt-f4
19:48<stinebd>teehee command
19:48<bob2>linbot sucks
19:48<BarkerJr>I've done nmap scans of the data centres and never found a blocked port
19:48<linbot>bob2: screw you
19:48<Yaakov>tjfontaine: "splat".
19:49<straterra>BarkerJr: Not block..filtered
19:49*Perihelion wobbles Yaakov
19:49<bob2>linbot: eat me
19:49<tjfontaine>Yaakov: exactly
19:49<tjfontaine>straterra: DPI?
19:49<Yaakov>Hello, Peri.
19:49<stinebd>dots per inch
19:49<sirpengi>Duck Pants Industry
19:49<Alan>surely in this context, deep packet inspection?
19:49<v0lksman>thanks bob2 I think I've got a lead....
19:50<straterra>No, not deep packet inspection
19:50<Yaakov>Devilishly Polite Investigator
19:50<straterra>Most ISPs filter 445 , regardless of traffic
19:50<straterra>That's the Windows SMB port
19:50<Alan>DPI: routers doing more than routing, bastards
19:50*tjfontaine is familiar
19:50<BarkerJr>straterra: ports are either open, closed, or blocked :P
19:50<tjfontaine>straterra: not usually in bidness wholesale
19:51<tjfontaine>BarkerJr: he means "drop"d :P
19:51<straterra>tjfontaine: Right..just making sure of that
19:51<straterra>BarkerJr: Theres a difference between dropping packets and rejecting packets
19:51<Alan>heh, reminds me of how fun it was to nmap an entire subnet of an ISP looknig for port 139 on dial-up
19:51<BarkerJr>what is the symptom of rejection?
19:51<tjfontaine>an ack of sorts
19:52<tjfontaine>icmp control packet
19:52<straterra>When you reject, the sender sees that it was rejected
19:52<BarkerJr>so not like a closed port
19:52<straterra>With a drop, the packet just..goes away
19:52-!-zack_ [] has joined #linode
19:52<BarkerJr>cause closed ports are "refused" not "rejected"
19:52<Nivex>Alan: and you could always find at least one, and leave a directory full of horse porn... err I mean a polite note suggesting they add some security
19:52-!-zack_ [] has quit []
19:52<straterra>Closed ports are typically rejected by the kernel (by default)
19:52<stinebd>reeeeeeejected. no play for mr. gray
19:52<straterra>you can set iptables/pf/whatever to drop instead
19:53<Nivex>the sad thing is, I go to coffee shops today and I can find at least one laptop announcing file sharing services over mDNS that are wide open
19:53<BarkerJr>I think the reason linode doesn't block 445 is cause they don't host windows servers
19:53<v0lksman>tonido...damn youze
19:53<bob2>people still ask about running samba on their linodes
19:54<@mikegrb>mmm cake
19:54<tjfontaine>let them eat cake
19:54<stinebd>to share their printers?
19:54<thegodlikehobo>guyz i cant find teh c: driev on my lienod halp
19:54<BarkerJr>tjfontaine: the question is the difference between drop and filter, not drop and reject :)
19:54<tjfontaine>drop is filter in this context
19:55-!-zack_ [] has joined #linode
19:55<BarkerJr>good :)
19:55<Nivex>tjfontaine: thanks for that drop vs reject article. I'd heard bits and pieces of that argument, but that is presented quite succinctly.
19:55<BarkerJr>now I can go back to dinner, hehe
19:56<Alan>what's wrong with running secured samba on a linode? :P#
19:56<tjfontaine>Nivex: ya, also, there's arguments to be made taht drop is more "intensive" than reject and can hurt you in a ddos
19:56*Nivex sends it to his counterpart at $WORK
19:57<Nivex>tjfontaine: that one I don't follow. If the packet is getting dropped on the ground, that would seem to be less intensive than actually having to form an ICMP response
19:58<Yaakov>I drop packets from certain hosts and networks but I reject packets on certain ports.
19:58<tjfontaine>just saying it's an argument, lemme see if I can resurrect the page
19:58<BarkerJr>I propose that people using firewalls makes dos attacks against people without firewalls more damaging
19:58<BarkerJr>so in short, using a firewall makes dos attacks do more damage
19:58<Yaakov>So it looks like there is NO sshd running, for example, not that you can't reach it.
19:59<tjfontaine>Nivex: quick googling is not rendering the results I want
19:59<Nivex>tjfontaine: no worries. If you happen across it again feel free to send it by.
20:00-!-MetaCosm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:07<bombshell>can someone please unbore me =]
20:07<Peng>bombshell: There was also an exciting discussion about firewall rules!
20:07<bombshell>Peng: aHH Rreally, that sounds boring
20:08<Yaakov>LOVESHACK OUT
20:08<mbreslin>before that it was ipv6 allocation
20:08<mbreslin>fun stuff
20:08<Peng>Ooh, I missed that one!
20:08*Peng scrolls up
20:08-!-Deezire [] has joined #linode
20:08<Nivex>hmm, someone's watching wargames
20:09<mbreslin>the only way to win..
20:09<Deezire>Anyone have some nagios-fu about how i can setup a repeating scheduled downtime for a service?
20:09<Nivex>"Strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
20:09<Deezire>Like, say, backups run every night, load skyrockets and sets of alarms. I wake up in panic just to realize it's just doing backups..
20:09<bombshell>Nivex: Is that sooooo...
20:11-!-spikku [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:11<MJCS>and this supprises you?
20:11<stinebd>surprises me
20:11<stinebd>i figured it would be the NSA
20:11<BarkerJr>the thing that scares me most is bsd's license
20:11<@jed>how was it missed for ten years, is the question
20:11<BarkerJr>this code could be in anything
20:12<Peng>I didn't see a discussion about IPv6 allocation.
20:12<dominikh>NDAs can expire? now *that's* stupid :P
20:12<@jed>so it's backdoored, allegedly, but nobody's found it yet?
20:12<BarkerJr>we know that windows uses bsd's netcode... maybe they use bsd's ipsec, too
20:12-!-eferefwf [] has joined #linode
20:12<tjfontaine>NSA has also broken PGP right?
20:12<@jed>I call bullshit
20:12<Deezire>uhm, i call bullcrap.
20:13<@jed>openbsd doesn't survive for 10 years without nobody noticing a backdoor
20:13<Deezire>No source has even managed to confirm it.
20:13<Deezire>And one should be able to easily confirm it now that we "know" it's there.
20:13<mbreslin>jed: interesting sentence :p
20:13<Peng>jed: They killed everybody who noticed!
20:13<stinebd>also bigfoot
20:13<Deezire>And a backdoor like that would most likely have been used by now, and been exposed by such.
20:14-!-MetaCosm [] has joined #linode
20:14<@jed>mbreslin: yeah, I missed the clutch shifting tenses there
20:14<mbreslin>it was fun
20:14<mbreslin>grind it until you find it
20:14<mbreslin>now we're in automotive humour
20:14<mbreslin>this channel has it all
20:15<eferefwf>hello, could any one here turn on my server? linode67364 It's power off
20:15<Yaakov>Should have been a hint, I think --> /* Backdoor for FBI */
20:15<@caker>eferefwf: log in and boot it?
20:16<Yaakov>Hello, caker.
20:16<@caker>hi, Yaakov
20:16<@caker>Yaakov: question for you -- where is next year's YAPC?
20:16<Yaakov>Good to see you, as always.
20:16<Yaakov>Asheville, NC.
20:16*caker wants to fly there
20:16<Yaakov>So I am told.
20:16<Yaakov>Pick me up on the way.
20:16<Nivex>!wx kavl
20:16<linbot>Nivex: [metar] OBS at KAVL: 15.8F/-09C, visibility 10 miles, wind 14.96 mph (altimeter: 30.01) [KAVL 150054Z 35013KT 10SM CLR M09/M16 A3001 RMK AO2 SLP192 T10941156]
20:17<Yaakov>caker: Come get me BUT, NO PAT DOWN, sorry. I have my limits.
20:17<mbreslin>at least it's a dry cold
20:17<@jed>Yaakov: that's the marvel of GA - no TSA
20:17<@caker>aww shucks cakerair has very strict security policies
20:17<Nivex>rent a Cherokee Six, take more friends
20:18<Yaakov>caker: Well, OK, for you. But no more than three times. I have my limits.
20:18<tjfontaine>cherokee nation
20:19<Yaakov>Will you be flying the Linoda Gay?
20:20<@jed>Yaakov: your ability to name things is freaky - I like that enough to make it stick
20:20<@jed>when caker buys a plane I'm sharpieing that on
20:21*caker drops bombs
20:21<@caker>too soon?
20:21<Yaakov>There's a guide.
20:22<Yaakov>caker: YOU *ARE* THE BOMB
20:22<@caker> YEEEESSSSS!
20:24-!-eferefwf [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
20:24<mbreslin>"The idea that you can just look at code and find problems is false."
20:24<mbreslin>only not.
20:24<mbreslin>slashdot is funny
20:24<@jed>oooo - even better. accuses scott lowe of being on the FBI payroll, too
20:24-!-jordie [~jordie@] has joined #linode
20:25<Yaakov>caker: Do you like swashbucklers?
20:26<mbreslin>true or not hopefully this will inspire eyeballs to look more carefully for pointer gymnastics and such in the future
20:26-!-A-KO [] has joined #linode
20:26<tjfontaine>death to pointers!
20:26<Nivex>void *urmom;
20:26<Void|work>no your mum
20:27<BarkerJr>java ftw
20:27-!-maushu_ [] has joined #linode
20:28<mbreslin>w in that acronym for me meaning work
20:28<Yaakov>No, "weak".
20:28<mbreslin>i shouldn't diss my job when so many are out of work but blah
20:28<mbreslin>java shops are :<
20:28<Yaakov>Also, that's not really an acronym.
20:29<pharaun>i am :< i am in java shop :<
20:29-!-synapt [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:29<Yaakov>It's an "initialism".
20:29<Void|work>ew java shops
20:29-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
20:29<mbreslin>of course it is, it's pronounced whatif
20:29<mbreslin>like what if?
20:30-!-jordie [~jordie@] has quit [Quit: jordie]
20:30<Yaakov>No, it's double-u tee eff.
20:30<mbreslin>pretty sad that it's the closest i could come to making it sound like a real word
20:30<Yaakov>Seasonal Affective Disorder
20:30<mbreslin>thanks for the acronym primer
20:31<Yaakov>That's a TLA, which itself is a TLI.
20:31-!-synapt [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:31-!-maushu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:31<Yaakov>Acronym is on of the most abused trivial words in all of the technology world.
20:31<Peng>Wait, "initialism"? Help, Yaakov has acute Wikipedia poisoning!
20:32<Yaakov>Peng: I don't refer to Wikipedia for words. I have a stupidly large vocabulary.
20:32-!-A-KO [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:32<straterra>Can't you add 'ism' to any work?
20:33<Yaakov>You can ask people who have met me in person, I really talk this way, even absent a web browser.
20:33<mbreslin>meanings change over time, unless you're a strict oxford follower
20:33<Yaakov>straterra: You CAN, but then most things you get will be neologisms.
20:34<Yaakov>mbreslin: Words get their meanings EXCLUSIVELY from usage. I try to defend words only to preserve the expressive power of the language, and, I will admit, occasionally n aesthetic grounds.
20:34<Yaakov>on, too.
20:34<sirpengi>mbreslin: I hope you're not referring to the OED, because that purposefully tracks actual usage
20:34<mbreslin>isn't there an oxford dictionary that purports to be the definitive english language
20:34<mbreslin>and not just monitor word useage
20:34<Yaakov>It is only the use of a word that has the power to give it meaning.
20:35<Yaakov>mbreslin: No, the OED is a chronicle of the usage by educated users of the language.
20:35-!-zack_ [] has quit [Quit: zack_]
20:35<mbreslin>fair enough
20:35<Yaakov>It is *descriptive*. Prescriptive dictionaries left this world long ago.
20:35<pharaun>and its often better to try to find the most accurate word to describe/say what you intend to
20:36-!-A-KO [] has joined #linode
20:36<Yaakov>At least in the English case.
20:36<mbreslin>i thought this was just some hosting providor irc channel
20:36<mbreslin>now i'm learning stuff
20:36<mbreslin>i didn't sign up for all this
20:36<pharaun>learning stuff is good
20:36<Yaakov>Now, the Dictionnaire de l'Académie francaise is a different case.
20:36<Peng>Yeah, I just came here to scream when there's downtime and whine about IPv6!
20:37<pharaun>if you don't learn new stuff, you might as well be dead imho
20:37<Peng>You can take in information without _learning_ anything.
20:37<mbreslin>pharaun: it was a joke, clearly i'm not running for the hills, it's enjoyable
20:37<Yaakov>The French have an OFFICIAL language.
20:37<pharaun>mbreslin: i know, i'm just countering ;)
20:38<pharaun>Peng: i suppose
20:38*Nivex hands Peng some cheese to go with his whine
20:38-!-zack_ [] has joined #linode
20:38*stinebd calls the waaaahmbulance
20:38*pharaun drills a hole in Peng skull and starts to pour the entire wikipedia dataset in
20:38-!-MetaCosm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:38-!-duckydan [] has quit [Quit: Bye all]
20:38<mbreslin>so does it follow then that english would not, being as it's bastardized portions of so many languages
20:38-!-mawolf [~mw@] has quit [Quit: mawolf]
20:39<Yaakov>mbreslin: This essay treats the core of this topic, if somewhat elliptically:
20:39<sirpengi>pretty much any language is a bastardized version of other older languages
20:40<pharaun>so then how do you decide what the parent language is of language X? aka the language that it borrows/evoluated from?
20:40<Yaakov>In my opinion the only legitimate complaint about usage is when it reduces the expressive power of the language. For example, words with distinct meanings are often merged in usage so that the distinction can no longer be expressed.
20:40<pharaun>then you end up with a mismash of.... MUSH
20:41<sirpengi>pharaun: you can claim a strong connection, but it's all a gray area since there are always constantly movement back and forth
20:41<mbreslin>everyone knows the superclass of language is Parseltongue
20:41<Yaakov>For example, "acronymn" and "initialism". If you take a hardline Sapir-Whorf approach, this means that it actually reduces the distinction in the human mind.
20:41<pharaun>sirpengi: that's what i figured
20:43<Yaakov>So, my argument for when language changes are "good" is when they increase the resolving power, so to speak, and so make finer thinking possible.
20:43<pharaun>so if there is a dozen different word for snow, that's a good change, versus one word for snow? well i know that's kind of simpifying it i guess
20:44<pharaun>*simplifying *sigh*
20:44<sirpengi>I don't know, it's a good thing to be able to generalize
20:44<Yaakov>pharaun: If the different words make useful distinctions, they are worth preserving. If they are just synonyms, eh.
20:44<Peng>Increasing the resolving power is what adjectives are for, no?
20:45<Yaakov>sirpengi: Having distinctions doesn't prevent having words that express general cases, at all.
20:45-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
20:46<pharaun>Yaakov: such as having one word for like "mushy snow" vs "hard snow" etc ?
20:46<sirpengi>Yaakov: I'm not against having more specificity. I just don't want it to be at the cost of generalizability
20:46<pharaun>then you can use that word to explain exactly what kind of snow it is
20:46-!-Damian [~Damian@] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20:47<Yaakov>Peng: Adjectives are one mechanism for expressing distinctions but words have both denotations and connotations.
20:47<pharaun>sirpengi: well i would think having some words that are good for generalizability plus some more specalized word would be good
20:47<Peng>MOAR WORDS
20:47<pharaun>then you can if you want to, define exactly what you are talking/referring to
20:47<sirpengi>pharaun: you're in luck because that's just how language is currently
20:47<Yaakov>Peng: A skilled speaker can choose words for connotations which a string of adjectives cannot duplicate.
20:47<pharaun>the trick is to have a good balance :)
20:47<Peng>Plus a string of adjectives is clumsy.
20:47<Nivex>*sigh* my ping at home is crap tonight
20:48<Yaakov>There is no tradeoff between general and specific terms. They are orthogonal.
20:48<Peng>Nivex: Accidentally left that horse porn torrent running?
20:48<pharaun>sirpengi: heh yeah, i sometime have to spend a few moment to find the correct word, but yeah its
20:48<Nivex>Peng: there
20:49<Nivex>Peng: there's a joke about "spreading your seed" in there somewhere
20:49-!-blognewb_ [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
20:49<Yaakov>The word "dog" for example is not balanced against puppy, hound, mongrel, cur, etc. It stands on its own.
20:49<pharaun>Yaakov: yes but if most people only know a certain... amount of words, wouldn't it be better to have a certain balance between specalized versus general
20:50-!-fprint [] has joined #linode
20:50<Yaakov>pharaun: Most people will know what they hear and read. They are more likely to know the general terms for things than shaded alternatives.
20:51<pharaun>fprint: are you a fingerprint
20:52<Yaakov>The problem frequently encountered is that people associate a "good vocabulary" with using Latinisms and Francophone words in preference to good old Anglo-Saxon words.
20:52<mbreslin>he/she is printf's out of work cousin
20:52<fprint>pharaun:much more
20:53<straterra>fprint: GET OUT OF MY CODE
20:53-!-hercynium [~hercynium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:00-!-KBme [] has quit [Quit: KBme kthxbye]
21:00<Nivex>'h' is not a valid hex character! what kind of interpreter are you?! :)
21:01<pharaun>Nivex: 0xdeadbeef
21:01<sirpengi>printf with no arguments should output 'F'
21:02-!-Boohemian [] has quit [Quit: ciao]
21:02<opello>printf with no arguments isn't syntactically correct?
21:03<tjfontaine>opello: urmom ...
21:03<Yaakov>Not "f"?
21:03<Nivex>kjotte@polaris:/tmp$ gcc -o foo foo.c
21:03<Nivex>foo.c: In function ‘main’:
21:03<Nivex>foo.c:4: error: too few arguments to function ‘printf’
21:03<Yaakov>I think printF would be expected to output "F".
21:03<sirpengi>I'm fine with 'f'
21:03<sirpengi>either way, someone should make this change
21:03<Nivex>sirpengi: you have the source code for GCC. Start hacking.
21:03<danieldg>printf with no arguments is undefined. It can crash, or do whatever.
21:04-!-printf [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
21:04<danieldg>technically, it will take the first argument on the stack, which will be whatever was on the stack from the function
21:04<danieldg>just like what printf("%s"); prints
21:04<sirpengi>Nivex: I can change a local version, I'm suggesting this be included in distributions
21:04<Nivex>danieldg: well, it won't compile unless you have one argument
21:05<danieldg>sirpengi: won't happen. Can't happen.
21:05<danieldg>Nivex: that's easy to work around
21:05<danieldg>define your own prototype
21:05<Yaakov>sirpengi: Start a campaign.
21:05<opello>danieldg: and it won't do that if you don't have a stack :p
21:05<Yaakov>Get it in ANSI C.
21:05<danieldg>opello: depending on what you mean by "you don't have a stack", you'll just segfault
21:05<sirpengi>Yaakov: I just might. However, I might have to start in php. easier to get horrible ideas implemented there
21:05<opello>(or if the first, say, 8 params are pass by register)
21:06-!-zack_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:06<opello>or whatever arm does
21:06<pharaun>most excellent idea on php ;)
21:06<danieldg>oh, if you're not x86 calling convention, then yes
21:06<danieldg>then it'll just be whatever-was-in-that-register
21:06<Nivex>just call the syscall for write()
21:06<danieldg>which is hardly any different
21:06<Yaakov>sirpengi: I think you should go for printa to printZ.
21:06<Yaakov>sirpengi: Just to be complete.
21:06<sirpengi>Yaakov: once this behavior for printf is implemented then it'd be easier to argue for those
21:07<Yaakov>sirpengi: Also. printf_twice
21:07<Yaakov>And, printf_Bold
21:07<Peng>Yaakov: In both HTML and IRC styles.
21:08-!-kyhwana [] has quit []
21:08*danieldg wants printf_with_fire
21:08<pharaun>what about printf_urmom?
21:09<pharaun>we must now request all users to bind to parameterized printf invocation!
21:11-!-Pyromancer [] has joined #linode
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21:18<@Perihelion>I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay.
21:18<Ovron>A friend is currently receiving close to 140000 kbits/sec incoming rate according to iptraf, on his linode. All ports are dropping except for my and his IP on the ssh port. Would this point towards him being flooded/attempted dos in some way? I can't seem to make out even before blocking off all ports, if anything actually went to any service, as the logs show nothing special for httpd / auth.log.
21:18<sirpengi>I sleep all night and I work all day
21:18<tjfontaine>Perihelion: I sleep all night
21:18-!-BlandSauce1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:18<@Perihelion>Slow tjfontaine is slow.
21:19<Peng>Haha, Wikipedia says "in most cases" there is no actual fire.
21:19<@Perihelion>Ovron: Can you get in through lish?
21:19<Ovron>Sure, and even through normal SSH
21:19<@Perihelion>Ah, misread sorry
21:20<@Perihelion>Can you tcpdump it?
21:20<Ovron>Currently incoming rates: ~ 148000 kbits/sec, outgoing: 55.1 kbits/sec ;x
21:20<Ovron>Sure... never used it, moment ;p
21:20-!-Duke [] has joined #linode
21:21<@Perihelion>Try something like tcpdump -nn -i eth0 port not 22
21:21<@Perihelion>Unless you want ssh traffic :P
21:21<bob2>it's a gonna be a lot of output
21:21<Ovron>Perihelion: stuff is flowing like mad, with that
21:21<@Perihelion>You can ctrl c it to stop it
21:21<Ovron>Yep, I did
21:21<@Perihelion>But it'll at least give you a decent idea of what's going on
21:22-!-BlandSauce [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:22<bob2>hm, is there a simple way to show some stats from a tcpdump dump file? (e.g. aggrgegate over which hosts, which ports)
21:22<pharaun>bob2: i just usually dump the tcpdump into wireshark
21:22<tjfontaine>there are some scripts to do that, I can't remember what they are I always have to go fin dthem
21:22<tjfontaine>there's the split one that's useful
21:23-!-Bhavic [] has quit []
21:24<tjfontaine>bob2: capinfo
21:24<tjfontaine>gotta be in there
21:24<tjfontaine>also tcpstat
21:25-!-User__ [~user@] has joined #linode
21:26<Ovron>looks like it is one IP mostly in this, by just looking at the output and not analyzing it using anything
21:26<tjfontaine>Ovron: what port is your ip communicating on?
21:27<@pparadis>title == Using tcpdump and Wireshark to sniff and analyse your network traffic
21:27<pharaun>pparadis: that's what i do all of the time
21:27<tjfontaine>pparadis: the question was doing it without wireshark :P
21:27<@pparadis>oh :)
21:27*pparadis ducks
21:27<tjfontaine>[12-14] 21:22:07 < bob2> hm, is there a simple way to show some stats from a tcpdump dump file? (e.g. aggrgegate over which hosts, which ports)
21:27<Ovron>tjfontaine: I am not really sure, not used tcpdump before. Would the port be the number after the dot?
21:28<pharaun>hehe i usually just nc pipe it from whatever host to my desktop then live-wireshark it ;)
21:28<tjfontaine>could be yes, if there's an extra dot after your ip
21:28-!-bombshell [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:28<@pparadis>tjfontaine: hm, i'm not sure wireshark qualifies as "not simple" given that context
21:28<@pparadis>it's pretty easy to use
21:28<Ovron>tjfontaine: it seems a bit random then; increasing over a range, switching higher up, and incrementing again
21:28<tjfontaine>sure, but I interpreted his comments as a way to post process a file from the server
21:29<tjfontaine>!p Ovron if you feel safe pasting the info
21:29-!-mawolf [~mw@] has joined #linode
21:29<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
21:29<bob2>I just want a "'tcpdump -s0 -wfoo not \( port ssh and host myip \)' ; ctrl-c ; magic --hosts < foo" thing that shows me a histagram
21:29-!-Duke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:29<Ovron>tjfontaine: sure thing; moment
21:29-!-Fieldy_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:30<Yaakov>bob2: iptraf
21:30<tjfontaine>I have never used iptraf like that
21:30<bob2>I thought iptraf could only show live stats on protocols
21:31<Yaakov>I can't recall now, it does do stats, and shows top talkers.
21:31-!-hfb [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:31<bob2>do you mean iptop?
21:31<bob2>or iftop
21:31<bob2>or whatever it is
21:31<Ovron>tjfontaine: how much of the output would you like? :p
21:32<tjfontaine>as much as you want to paste
21:32<@Perihelion>BRING ME PETER PACKETS
21:32<thegodlikehobo>i'll bring you my peter's packets.
21:33<Ovron>tjfontaine: ; on a second look, there's 3 reoccuring IP addresses a bit higher up in the capture
21:33-!-warren [] has joined #linode
21:34<Ovron>02:34:07 jono: a guy contacted me on twitter saying if i pay him he'll stop
21:34<Ovron>sigh, guess a kiddie is flooding him indeed
21:34<tjfontaine>udp flood
21:34<bob2>pretty lame kiddie
21:35<bob2>that's only 2 isdn lines of traffic!
21:35<Ovron>It has already transfered over 40GB since last night, I think he said; only noticed this few hours ago
21:35<bob2>Ovron: just wait until their mum makes them unplug the modem so they can make a phone call
21:36<@Perihelion>thegodlikehobo: hahahaha
21:36<Ovron>He has been in contact with linode support over ticket; any advice for what he should do next? He was offered to be nullrouted for 24 hours before; recon that is the best option at this point?
21:36<bob2>Ovron: upgrade to a linode 4096
21:36<@Perihelion>Depends on how much traffic they're doing
21:37<bob2>Ovron: then you can just handle the traffic within your quota
21:37<@Perihelion>If it's not that much I'd say ride it out
21:37-!-User__ [~user@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37<@Perihelion>We can always null route it if he's about to run out of bandwidth
21:38<pharaun>why not just null route it from the get start?
21:38<pharaun>spare the bw ?
21:38-!-Bass2 [] has joined #linode
21:38<bob2>because that means no serve-y
21:38<@Perihelion>Yeah :<
21:38<@Perihelion>I'm not sure if they're overloading the node so it's hard to say
21:39<@Perihelion>If you can't access the sites on it as it is then null routing makes sense
21:39<Ovron>they really aren't; just taking up more bandwidth than he has allocated for a month
21:39<mbreslin>for x in `users | tr " " \n | grep -v me`
21:39<mbreslin>i used that today
21:39<mbreslin>200/200 on final
21:39<mbreslin>thanks :>
21:39<bob2>tjfontaine: haha
21:39<Ovron>Thanks for the help everyone; told him what was said here.
21:39<bob2>I was gonna say, half a mark off for not using $()
21:39-!-zack__ [] has quit [Quit: zack__]
21:39<pharaun>Perihelion: i always thought that null route == null routing the attackers, not the other traffic
21:40<tjfontaine>pharaun: generally you can only request your own ip
21:40<mbreslin>well i used my username actually
21:40<mbreslin>on that box
21:40<tjfontaine>pharaun: you're not big enough to be allowed to nullroute them at upstream :P
21:40<pharaun>tjfontaine: pfft :-p
21:40-!-integral [] has joined #linode
21:40<@pparadis>pharaun: you're thinking "filter the attacker's traffic"... null route in this context means take the IP being attacked off the net for awhile.
21:40<bob2>1) request 254 additional ips
21:40<bob2>2) ...
21:41<bob2>3) have linode drop your /24
21:41<straterra>I want a /8
21:42<bob2>better get on the phone to iana
21:42<pharaun>straterra: you can have one of those noisy /8
21:42<bob2>2 left
21:42<straterra>I want all 7
21:42-!-atula [] has joined #linode
21:42*pparadis wants a pony
21:42<Ovron>I'd love an elephant the size of a dog
21:42<Ovron>imagine how cute that would be
21:43<bob2>afrinic and lacnic have to cage fight for one
21:43<bob2>you could ask to be included
21:43<stinebd>how to make ponny
21:43-!-Bass10 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:43<straterra>bob2: hell yeah
21:43<straterra>I'm not afraid of them
21:43<@pparadis>ur gon git pwnt
21:43<@pparadis>straterra: you could always start lolnic
21:43-!-joeDeuce [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:43-!-too [] has joined #linode
21:44<Ovron>urmomnic takes all ranges
21:44-!-too is now known as joeDeuce
21:44<Yaakov>.lol, .wtf, .omg, .ikr, .idk
21:45<Ovron>.pwn, don't forget .pwn
21:45-!-abc_123 [] has quit [Quit: abc_123]
21:45-!-A-KO [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:48<encode>in soviet russia, ol you
21:49-!-Duke [] has joined #linode
21:49<encode>or even in communist china
21:49<encode>Perihelion: Yaakov's link
21:49-!-orieg [] has quit [Quit: orieg]
21:49<@Perihelion>i was just adding commentary
21:50<Yaakov>She's a hammer and sickle kind of gal.
21:50<encode>an eroteme counts as commentary now?
21:51-!-ThickAsABrik [] has joined #linode
21:51<@Perihelion>It's a hammer and sickle
21:51<Yaakov>encode: It was a hammer and sickle, Soviet style.
21:51<encode>I have no UTF8 enabled
21:52<Ovron>all I saw was a questionmark *kicks his screen*
21:52<encode>hence, I saw a question mark
21:52<encode>yes indeed
21:52<dominikh>encode: do you live in the past?!
21:52<Yaakov>No, the future, when UTF-8 is outlawed because it is used by terrorists.
21:52<dominikh>unicode is the new Alt+0191 !
21:54<dominikh>there's seriously a symbol for ACK?
21:54-!-ironie [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:54<dominikh>the snowman, since Rails everyone knows it, anyway :P
21:54<Ovron>(yes, that's just a question mark :( )
21:56<@Perihelion>I wanna hold em like they do in TX please
21:57-!-abc_123 [] has joined #linode
21:57<Yaakov>☢ ♨ ☠
21:57<@Perihelion>Can't read my can't read my no he can't read my Yaakov face
21:57<@stan_theman>fold em
21:57<@Perihelion>SpaceHobo: Now would be an awesome time for a grue
21:57<Yaakov>♫ ♫ ♪
21:59<Ovron>this is discriminating towards non-UTF8-enabled clients
21:59<Yaakov>Ovron: GET UTF-8
21:59<Ovron>that would require restarting screen :p
21:59<Void|work>haha Ovron
22:00<Void|work>I'm in the same boat
22:00<thegodlikehobo>whoa, let's not do anything drastic now
22:00<dominikh>pff, Ovron is too much of a coward to restart screen, anyway
22:00<dominikh>he'd never do that
22:01<@Perihelion> ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
22:01<Ovron> .
22:01<@pparadis>oh nice
22:01<Ovron>there's a message to you in morse, using spaces only, ending with a dot.
22:04<thegodlikehobo>I can eat glass. Thar does't hurt me.
22:04<@Perihelion>cuts like a knife
22:04<@Perihelion>naaaa naaaaaaaa
22:06<@pparadis>thegodlikehobo: 膣は、それは夕食のために何です。
22:08<v0lksman>Perihelion, does it feel so right?
22:08<thegodlikehobo>wait, it's not white at all. I concede defeat.
22:10<@Perihelion>ZOMG HARRY POTTER ⚡
22:10<@Perihelion>I'm really sad that I can't find a cactus character.
22:11<hobot>there is cactar
22:11<hobot>cactus character from what btw
22:11<@Perihelion>There's a unicode cactus
22:11<@Perihelion>I just can't find it
22:13<encode>yeah, i keep forgetting to configure screen for utf8
22:13<@Perihelion>Argh, doesn't work on here :<
22:13<hobot>lol only last resort and symbola support it according to this website
22:13<encode>even though i had some chances recently due to fremont power problems
22:13<hobot>and last resort is fake
22:13<hobot>its that apple fake font
22:13<sirpengi>Perihelion: seems to be a proposal for now
22:13<@Perihelion>It needs to be FINALLIZED
22:13<@Perihelion>FINALIZED EVEN
22:14<sirpengi>ohh, CURRY AND RICE
22:14<hobot>well symbola apparenty supports it already
22:15<sirpengi>I WANT THIS: U+1F3E9
22:15<hobot>ve hotel
22:16<hobot>love hotel* haha
22:16-!-Bass2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:17<BarkerJr>discover sent me a Large Purchase alert for linode :)
22:18<sirpengi>that's crazy. that means the japanese refer to love hotels so often that they use an emoji for it instead
22:19<sirpengi>s/r/l/ for those that prefer that romanization
22:19<amitz>but there is yet a symbol for urmom.
22:23-!-abc_123 [] has quit [Quit: abc_123]
22:24<Ovron>does urmom have a RFC?
22:26<amitz>no need. urmom is common knowledge, every knows every single peculiarity of urmom.
22:28-!-joshdotsmith [] has joined #linode
22:30-!-mig5 [] has joined #linode
22:30<Duke>i smell leenodah
22:31<amitz>and urmom too :-p
22:31-!-techhelper1 [~techhelpe@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:31-!-encode [~encode@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:31-!-encode [~encode@] has joined #linode
22:32-!-techhelper1 [~techhelpe@] has joined #linode
22:32<Duke>urmum since i'm inglis
22:33<encode>can someone say something in utf-8 again?
22:34<amitz>I thought there is also a matter of having the right font too?
22:34*Duke turns everyone into a slanted eye
22:34<Duke>sup phil @ pparadis
22:34*thegodlikehobo forgets to turn off turn-single
22:34<@pparadis>Duke: \o
22:34<amitz>For example, my irssi fails to parse pparadis' . What's that?
22:35-!-NiftyLettuce [] has joined #linode
22:35<encode>still not working
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22:35<Duke>why palegray instead of like boldgray or radiantgray or even linogray? @ pparadis
22:35<amitz>encode: have you installed the right fonts?
22:36<encode>no idea
22:36<@pparadis>Duke: i once noticed that i was almost always making somewhat heavy of use of pale shades of gray in web layouts, so i registered the domain name years ago.
22:36<amitz>encode: linux? debian?
22:37<encode>os x, iterm, to ubuntu + screen + irssi
22:37<amitz>pparadis: ah, you and your exclusive apple club!
22:37<Duke>all gray and no play eh
22:37<@Perihelion>You can only see the apple on macs apparently
22:37<@pparadis>amitz: i'm different, just like everyone else ;)
22:38<@Perihelion>fffffff tv commercials are loud compared to the news
22:38<Duke>zomg it's Perihelion
22:38-!-Perihelion is now known as zomg
22:38<@pparadis>Perihelion: There's legislation for that.
22:38<amitz>pparadis: that means I'm... the same.... well, doesn't really make sense, but oh well :-p
22:38<@jed>there's equipment, too
22:39<mbreslin>recently passed legislation i think
22:39<Duke>lumos solem!
22:39<@jed>no loud commercials ever again!
22:39<@zomg>Why would I pay when turning the tv down works just as well?
22:39<amitz>encode: hmm, perhaps trying apt-get install ttf-sazanami-gothic <- half-guessing, works for me, forgot where I run it (server or client)
22:40<mbreslin>there should be legislation against freakishly long links
22:40<@jed>because it makes the really quiet dialogue easy to hear too
22:40<amitz>encode: for japanese font.
22:40<@zomg>turning the remote up and down is cheaper
22:40<@jed>YOU OF ALL PEOPLE
22:40<Duke>any font for parseltongue?
22:41<@zomg>jed: I'm also miserly
22:41<@zomg>I also blew 800 bucks on christmas gifts yesterday
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22:42<encode> <-- all of this is already configured, so I should have utf8
22:42<encode>but I don't
22:42<encode>so meh
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22:43<dominikh>fonts, my friend, fonts.
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22:44<Ovron>if you're using putty, it requires a bit of fist-shaking, and it starts working
22:44-!-zack_ [] has joined #linode
22:45<syberdave>yes in putty you have to change character set to UTF-8 under "Translation" in settings
22:45<Duke>yo @ Ovron
22:46<Duke>how's ovronik life?
22:46<encode>not using putty
22:46-!-atula [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:47<Ovron>splendid, splendid thanks; how's duke...ik life? ;)
22:47-!-nuclear [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:47<Chris___>I almost blew 800 bucks on zomg yesterday
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22:52<amitz>encode: have you restarted the terminal app in mac? Whenever I changed language, I have to restart any mac app.
22:52<NiftyLettuce>\o :)
22:53<amitz>Chris___: is zomg a reference to something?
22:53<Chris___>I want to use an IP not eth0, but eth0:1
22:53<Chris___>can I make ipsec do this? I tried to use the eth0:1 IP in the ipsec.conf but that didn't work
22:53<Chris___>amitz: zomg is an op in the channel, and a good friend of mine :p
22:54<encode>amitz: everything is configured correctly, as far as I can tell. I haven't made any config changes today, just checked against various guides I found
22:55<encode>both server and client have been restarted in the recent past
22:55<Chris___>jed: yeah basically
22:56<@caker>Macs rule, PCs drool
22:56-!-Ethelim_ [] has joined #linode
22:57<@zomg>God mode: Run Linux on a mac
22:57<amitz>I hate mac.
22:58<@caker>mac hates you!
22:58<amitz>mac disappoints me: 1. The line-in is not powered, I have to buy a self-powered mic.
22:58-!-Sputnik7 [] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.55=-]
22:58<amitz>2. hmmm I forgot...
22:59<@caker>macbook, iMac, iPod, iPad, Apple TV!
22:59*caker explode
23:00<Ovron>so linodes are running on xserve? ;p
23:01<amitz>OOH, 2. tightvnc doesn't work on mac in server mode.
23:01<Duke>sertainli wunerful @ Ovron
23:01<Ovron>apple is pulling away from the server market? :O just checked their site and the xserve will only be available till jan 31
23:01<amitz>3. Way too old python version. Unclear future of java version.
23:02-!-Ethelim [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:02-!-Ethelim_ is now known as Ethelim
23:02<@zomg>I love my iPad
23:02<@zomg>It's awesome to take to the gym and watch movies or whatever while I do cardio
23:02<@zomg>I usually forget that I'm working out
23:02<Duke>sensibl luv eh
23:03<Duke>ipad is expensiv
23:03<@zomg>Particularly when I bring Dexter/True Blood :3
23:03<amitz>zomg: it's okay to be honest about apple. You can speak to me in private, caker won't know.
23:03<@zomg>The only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the iPhone.
23:03<techhelper1>zomg, what does the xen vm’s run on kvm/pvm ?
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23:08<linbot>New news from forums: Need advice for non-profit in China Drupal use / big enough in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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23:42<@pparadis>it's the greatest goddamn music video of all time -->
23:46<@pparadis>THE HOFF COMPELS YOU
23:48<@heckman>Protip: don't hassle the hoff
23:49-!-Duke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:52<@pparadis>bob2: haha
23:52<@pparadis>that's severely fucked up
23:52<bob2>Sony Music says no
23:53<bob2>but if it wasn't one of or , it should have been
23:53-!-MetaCosm [] has joined #linode
23:54<@pparadis>bob2: nay, christopher walken pwns u ("Weapon Of Choice - Fatboy Slim")
23:54<bob2>pparadis: oh, excellent call
23:56<@jed>aphex twin > you
23:56<@jed>you'd like his music if you had robot ears.
23:58<@heckman>We need to get a giant vinyl wall decoration for the office of Christopher Walken dancing to Weapon of Choise.
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
23:59<bob2>quick, before it comes back
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has joined #linode
23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.16948880, 0.22176875) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17515 of 22287 (π ≈ 3.143536590837708 - 0.001943937247915)
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 15 00:00:26 2010