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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-01-07

---Logopened Fri Jan 07 00:00:56 2011
00:04<SelfishMan>Building my checklist for a trip later this month where I'll be gutting the network of 2.5 operating restaurants. Any suggestions on stuff to make sure I have? Really don't want to miss anything but the environment is unknown and there won't be enough time to special order anything
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00:05<SelfishMan>ib4 urmom
00:05<Ovron>urmom's good to have with you
00:05<pharaun>SelfishMan: i would just guess more or less the standard stuff
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00:05<pharaun>like cables :-p tips, crimpers, etc... and screwdrivers, etc..
00:06<pharaun>flashlights if poking into things
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00:06<Ovron>duct tape!
00:06<SelfishMan>pharaun: have all the cable, jacks, connectors and standard tool set already heading that way
00:06<pharaun>that too
00:06<pharaun>SelfishMan: one thing i've found useful for tiny space stuff is some sort of small mirror/magnet tips that extends
00:06<pharaun>so i can grab dropped screws/etc
00:06<SelfishMan>mostly trying to figure out what I need to get in the box that is being shipped down there in advance
00:06<pharaun>and flashlight i guess, get a nice one
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00:07<SelfishMan>I've done plenty of installs so I have the usual stuff covered but those random things you guys use may be of value
00:07<Ovron>electrical tape is nice to have as well, and those cable clips, that make clicky sound when you tighten them
00:07<pharaun>Ovron: sliplocks i think
00:07<SelfishMan>Ovron: covered
00:07<pharaun>but i think they generally prefer velcro strips over sliplocks cos you can undo em
00:08<SelfishMan>actually have both velcro and zip ties covered
00:08<Ovron>ah, of course - that's even nicer
00:08<SelfishMan>I hate the zips but they work
00:08<pharaun>hah yeah
00:08<pharaun>i like zips cos they are compact and bundles up my cables good
00:08<pharaun>i haven't found a good supplier of plain velcro strips
00:08<SelfishMan>the velcro is good for the extra cable that is around a terminal and zips are great for tacking them up for the long term
00:08<pharaun>SelfishMan: got a good supplier of velcro ?
00:08<SelfishMan>pharaun: I just got a bunch of them from
00:09<SelfishMan>6" Velcro Cable Tie Straps (1/2" Width), Bag of 50 - SR170-6BK - $4.94
00:09<pharaun>SelfishMan: oh nice
00:09<pharaun>perfect that's what i was looking for
00:09<SelfishMan>not the best price ever but it works since I'm getting 350 other items from there
00:09<pharaun>heh yeah, i keep on running into crappy velcro or tacky one, i just wanted some plain velcro strips
00:10<SelfishMan>not really a bad price either
00:10<pharaun>nice site, i'll grab the velcro from em thanks
00:10<SelfishMan>free bag of skittles with every order!
00:10<pharaun>haha nice
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00:10<pharaun>i think you're covered, at least for things that i can think of :-p
00:11<SelfishMan>I'm taking an existing network that functions and fixing all the issues
00:11<SelfishMan>broken jacks, cables with wires twisted together, etc
00:11<SelfishMan>restaurants are such harsh environments
00:11<Ovron>make sure to implement a magic-moremagic switch as well
00:11<pharaun>Ovron: +1
00:11<SelfishMan>you have to assume that everything will have at least one coke spilled on it
00:11<pharaun>SelfishMan: yeah i wouldn't be surprised, esp with all of the food, hot shit and etc
00:11<pharaun>grease/oil is nasty
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00:12<pharaun>anyway nn, not feeling all that wonderful
00:12<SelfishMan>sleep well
00:12<Ovron>nn o/
00:13<b0tz>Would i notice any difference speed wise using ntfs vs ext4, wouldnt be using on windows
00:14<SelfishMan>isn't ntfs on linux still mostly userspace?
00:14<Ovron>without any source, I would say ext4 would probably perform much better
00:14<b0tz>only getting 13-15MB/s on ntfs when before (vfat) i was getting 30mbps stable
00:14<SelfishMan>sounds like userspace
00:14<b0tz>ill format the next drive to ext4 and see how that works.
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00:24<b0tz>oh yes
00:25<b0tz>Ovron, getting 45MB/s with ext4
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01:33<sahil>I'm following and I'm wondering if the init script is different than the one I already use from the php doc?
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01:58<sahil>is there a reason why wget yields a file that simply says Go Away.
02:01<dominikh>happens in a browser as well :)
02:01<Marius>It looks like someone messed up on some htaccess rules and you got a placeholder that's shown to people who don't have access to certain areas of the site
02:02<Jascal>:p You gotta like how alll that the page says is go away!
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02:13<Ovron>how do I cancel linode subscription??? you told me to go away, how rude!
02:15<tonyyarusso>sahil: any address under reference/ does -
02:15<tonyyarusso>Why, I still have no idea.
02:16<sahil>tonyyarusso: thanks, do you happen to know if the init script is any different?
02:16<sahil>I figure it might be because it points to an opt nginx
02:16<tonyyarusso>Not even the foggiest clue.
02:16<Ovron>woah, woah, it is discriminating urmom as well
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02:32<Jascal>Has anyone managed to successfully install a VNC server using Ubuntu?
02:33<b0tz>Of course
02:33<b0tz>there are guides on google all over.
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02:33<Jascal>I have yet to find one that explains it clear enough
02:33<Jascal>I have tried on numerous occasions but each time something doesnt work...
02:35<Jascal>Lol I know I am
02:35<Jascal>I am still a newbie...
02:35<Jascal>But I do enjoy complig from source
02:35<HedgeMage>Everyone's a newbie when they start :)
02:35<b0tz>Does anyone here know a good command line or gui tool to mirror two external drives? say manually keep 1 copy of it up-to-date with my files and id like to easily mirror those files onto the other drive
02:36<b0tz>I odnt want to have to deal with a 200gb copy everytime though, only syncing the new or updated files
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02:37<Jascal>Filezilla and sFtp into yourserver
02:37<Jascal>Then copy the files off of it and over right if source is newer
02:37<b0tz>This is local
02:38<b0tz>My desktop os (on laptop) keeping files and music and pictures,etc, backed up on a external HD
02:38<b0tz>Ovron, any ideas?
02:38<Jascal>I have used apps in the past that have done a decent job...
02:39<b0tz>such as?
02:39<Jascal>Trying to remember
02:39<Jascal>Rsync does a decent job
02:39<Jascal>b0tz whats your OS?
02:40<Ovron>and it only transfers what needs transfer, instead of you having to figure it out.
02:40<b0tz>Again though, rsync is for over network\internet transfers isnt it? ive used it a long time ago for basic config file backups on a server
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02:40<Ovron>it works fine locally.
02:40<b0tz>ah, okay ill have to try that
02:40<Jascal>b0tz what OS are you doing this on?
02:41<b0tz>Ubuntu but about to switch to linux mint
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02:47<cross>hi, i need help
02:47<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
02:48<cross>i want insall bind9 in my linode vps
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02:49<Ovron>was that the question?
02:49<cross>the question is
02:49<cross>i need help step by step to install bind9
02:51<Ovron>are you sure you need to run a DNS server yourself? They are serious business, and unless this is for learning, you'd be better of using linode's provided DNS service. wrt guides, I am sure there's plenty that google can find for you. There's a guide in the linode library, but that covers NSD.
02:52<cross>yes, i know but i don't want use NSD
02:52<celthunder>cross, theres a lot of guides for bind
02:52<cross>i think bind is better
02:52<Peng>cross: Just curious, why?
02:53<Ovron>if you need a step-by-step guide to install bind, I beg to differe that you'd know which is better.
02:53<cross>is more used
02:53<Peng>cross: You should install Windows on your Linode, then. ;-)
02:53<cross>do you belive NSD is better?
02:54<Peng>In all seriousness, I do prefer to avoid obscure software, but several DNS servers are "popular enough", in my opinion, including NSD.
02:54<Peng>cross: I've never used BIND, so I couldn't say.
02:54<cross>ok thank you
02:54<cross>i am from cuba
02:54<Ovron>what linux distro are you running?
02:55<cross>i am use debian
02:55<Ovron>there's one guide
02:56<cross>thank you
02:56<cross>but that guide is for debian sarge
02:56<cross>i am using lenny
02:56<Ovron>it will generally be the same
02:57<cross>i need learn more english
02:57<Ovron>the step-by-step process for installing it on sarge and lenny, will probably be almost the same
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02:58<cross>because all the information is in english
02:58<cross>that good
02:58<cross>somebody here use debian?
02:59<Ovron>quite a few people do
03:00<cross>i like debian
03:00<cross>is fast, and easy
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03:00<cross>so i want to learn more about linux distro
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03:01<mariooo>hello - I need to transfer a couple of DNS Domain Zones between linode accounts, any way I can do this myself?
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03:02<Peng>mariooo: I think you have to have both accounts file tickets.
03:02<Marius>without support, you'll have to delete and recreate
03:02<Marius>if not, opening a ticket form both accoutns will allow staff to simply move it for you
03:02<mariooo>will support have it easier, or am I just passing the buck
03:02<Marius>they'll just change the account associated with it
03:02<Marius>so it'll be easier
03:03<mariooo>ok great, thanks
03:03<Peng>mariooo: I don't know how many buttons it takes, but they seem happy to do it.
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03:03<Bhavicp>Anyone know a simple Linux VPN client i could install?
03:03<Peng>mariooo: Besides, what would the fresh, new support monkeys think if we didn't abuse them?
03:03<@ericoc>Peng: i'm not that new :(
03:03<Peng>Bhavicp: Depending on what you want, an SSH proxy is as simple as you can get.
03:04<Marius>ericoc, go fix the obvious buggered rewrite rule on the library!
03:04<Peng>ericoc: But you obviously haven't been abused enough yet!
03:04<mariooo>Peng: ;)
03:04<Bhavicp>Peng: Something i can use with like Firefox's Proxy setting.
03:04<Peng>Bhavicp: SSH would work for that.
03:04<b0tz>Bhavicp, openvpn
03:04<b0tz>but yeha
03:04<b0tz>do ssh tunneling
03:05<Marius>If you don't, I'm opening a new ticket to complain that the latest x64 stable paravirt fucked up screen unless I went and messed with the config again like I had to do on x86 >=)
03:05<Peng>Bhavicp: Google "Firefox SSH SOCKS proxy". Remember to enable the DNS proxying setting, if you want that.
03:05<Bhavicp>Doesn't openvpn need a client-side client :(
03:05<Bhavicp>Ah thanks
03:05<@ericoc>Marius: tell Perihelion
03:05<Marius>ericoc, about what?
03:05<Marius>oh the docs
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03:05<Marius>already done, she be sleeping :P
03:05<Marius>or drinking
03:05<Ovron>SLEEPING?! call and wake her up
03:05<Marius>not sure which :P
03:05<@ericoc>or both
03:05<Marius>or both
03:06<Marius>Ovron, I'd never do that, then I would be subject to many many more abusings then I already am =(
03:06<Ovron>so you like abuse, huh?
03:06<Marius>no, but I don't have much of a choice =(
03:07<Ovron>I bet you secretly like it
03:07<Peng>Liver abuse?
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03:17<ZeeO>hey guys im using a linode right now for shoutcast hosting and finding im getting close to a ded box price for bandwith anyway i can buy more bandwith without buying more space etc
03:17<ZeeO>im looking at grabing a 99 dollor softlayer box with 3000 gigs bw
03:17<Kane`>you can make upgrades on your linode
03:17<ZeeO>as im paying 80 right now for 600
03:17<Kane`>so you should be able to buy a cheap box and upgrade only the bandwidth
03:17<Kane`>confirm that before doing it... i may be wrong
03:18<ZeeO>well when i got ot upgrade it upgrades ram space etc
03:18<ZeeO>all as one
03:18<ZeeO>you cant just pick bandwith
03:18*Kane` logs in
03:19<Kane`>seems to work for me
03:19<Ovron>mhm you can do extras, which increases the specific component.
03:20<ZeeO>but if you look
03:20<ZeeO>its 10 dollors
03:20<ZeeO>for 100 gigs
03:20<Kane`>100GB for $10
03:20<Ovron>that's correct
03:20<ZeeO>but look at the plans on the website
03:20<ZeeO>its the same price and it all scales
03:20<ZeeO>so y just upgrade the bandwith for 10
03:21<Ovron>in other words, getting a larger linode gives you more bang for the buck.
03:21<eyecool>accidentally deleted my configuration profile, just now.. server is still on.. anything I can do to get it back?
03:21<ZeeO>when you can pay 10 and get ram space and bandwith
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03:21<Peng>eyecool: If it's just the configuration profile, recreate it.
03:21<Ovron>eyecool: what configuration profile? in the linode manager?
03:21<eyecool>yes. in dashboard..
03:21<Ovron>what Peng said ;p
03:22<eyecool>i click rebuild and it says it will destroy all data and wipe linode clean and fresh
03:22<ZeeO>seems like that extras menu needs to be more like upgrade plan for 10 dollors
03:22<ZeeO>to next plan
03:22<Peng>eyecool: Yes, don't do that.
03:22<Peng>eyecool: THere's an "Add a config profile" or such link.
03:22<ZeeO>if there going to charage the same price for getting upgrade as the next plan
03:22<eyecool>create a new profile?
03:22<Peng>eyecool: "Create a new Configuration Profile"
03:23<Peng>eyecool: Then stitch it together, with the kernel, disk images and settings you want.
03:23<Ovron>ZeeO: there's a fairly good reason why the prices are that high for the extra components.
03:23*eyecool sighs
03:24<eyecool>Peng: thx.. i'm too tired to even think it through
03:24<Ovron>My Debian 5.0 Configuration! default name <3
03:24<Peng>eyecool: Possibly not a good time to be editing configuration profiles!
03:24<Peng>"My Ubuntu 7.10 Profile"
03:25<eyecool>man, I was cloning one linode, and didn't realize it was cloning to the dashboard of another one I was on, so I started deleting =(
03:25<Ovron>is this where I say lulzbuntu, and after 10 minutes we're discussing emacs vs vim?
03:25<b0tz>nano ^
03:26<Peng>eyecool: Good thing you didn't delete anything important, then!
03:26<amitz>megatron27 style
03:26<eyecool>yeah.. it's just my db node :/
03:26<b0tz>What do you find the best about linode that justifies the price? Other then the awesome support, and apparently the great network that its on?
03:26<eyecool>I still feel liderhosen
03:27<Ovron>"justifies" the price?
03:27<eyecool>good thing my butt still isn't in production mode
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03:27<Peng>b0tz: There aren't many decent VPS hosts cheaper than Linode.
03:27<b0tz>Well, i am trying to justify wanting to change from to linode. lish looks awesome and so does the network connectivity and such. Burst's support absolutely sucks
03:27<b0tz>Yes i know this peng. So im asking, what makes you stick with linode?
03:28<Peng>Well, for one thing I love my IP.
03:28<b0tz>All i do is use it as a personal vps for tunneling and other stuff
03:28<eyecool>Peng: LMAO.. im like that about IPs too
03:28<Ovron>I want
03:28<eyecool>I want
03:29<Peng>Ovron: has bad reachability.
03:29<Ovron>urmom has bad reachability
03:29<purrdeta> is APNIC I think
03:29<linbot>Ovron: Yo momma's so slow, Norton runs faster than her! (743:15/0) [mrmuo]
03:29<Ovron>it is indeed purrdeta, talk about wasted :(
03:30<Ovron>it obviously needs to be assigned to ovronic
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03:30<Peng>APNIC is unlucky to have received it. and have bad reachability.
03:32<Peng>On the one hand, rDNS is good. On the other hand, it's fun to see IPv6 IPs or on IRC without having to set up some whoiser.
03:32<Peng>Heh, has deployed IPv6.
03:33<Ovron>hasn't everyone?
03:33<Ovron>oh, wait
03:33<linbot>Peng: 2607:f878:1:634::2,
03:35<purrdeta>one day linode will have native IPv6 and it will be glorious
03:35<Peng>!dns6 2607:f878:1:634::2
03:35<b0tz>I just find the support to be crappy, the availability of distros to install sad, and the network to be slow
03:35<Peng>b0tz: v6 network? :D
03:35<Ovron>linode's pretty awesome, om nom nom
03:36<b0tz>I dont utilitze it really Peng. All i need this for is personal use, but still availability and speed are a big factor for me.
03:36<Ovron>heh is offering 1000GB/month traffic for a VPS that costs 6USD/mo? ^^
03:36<Peng>b0tz: But who cares about support, distros and performance when you have IPv6? :D
03:37<Peng>They have 5 different v6 peers, too. Well, 6 counting Cogent. ;-)
03:37<b0tz>Yeah Ovron I have the VPS package 2
03:38<Ovron>that list screams oversellingmuch
03:38<b0tz>but still. It took 2 days to reply on a support ticket, and the reply was.. low
03:38<Peng>Eep, VZ?
03:38<Marius>They fill it till they burst!
03:38<b0tz>yeah vz :\
03:38<Ovron>another plus for linode; xen
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03:39<Ovron>CPU: 1000MHZ (notice the capital z, sad times) GUARANTEED... yeaaaah, right.
03:39<b0tz>yeah.. i agree. I just didnt have the 240$ to spend on a year of linode.
03:41<b0tz>still though. the ram and bandwith\mo is better @ 10$ burst then 20$ linode
03:41<purrdeta>but if it is shitty who cares?
03:41<b0tz>That is agreeable.
03:41<Ovron>numbers in this case don't mean everything, at least not those numbers
03:41<purrdeta>believe me, I've done the cheap VPS thing and it works out ok for a few days...weeks... maybe months... but they always fuck me somehow
03:42<Ovron>relatively speaking, linode is a ripoff considering what you get. Well, a reverse ripoff.
03:42<dominikh>there's no such thing :P
03:43<Ovron>it sounds nice, don't get all correct with me now, damnit
03:43<Ovron>>:( nano user
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05:00*graq does a nifty jig.
05:02*Peng claps
05:03*Marius slowclaps
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05:05*Peng slowerclaps
05:07*Marius slowestclaps
05:07<Peng>Damn! You win
05:08*chesty slowerestclaps
05:09<Marius>Well played, well played indeed.
05:09<Marius>grr, stupid wordpress and it's weird quirks
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05:33<linbot>New news from forums: How to figure out why mysql is at 170% cpu load? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
05:39<Ovron>Marius: when it becomes the norm, it no longer is a quirk
05:39<Peng>Reading Con Kolivas's blog is giving me an urge to compile my own kernel. Someone please stop me!
05:39<Ovron>Peng: when you hit compile, the compiler asks you for your soul to proceed
05:40<Ovron>whenever a kernel is built, at least one soul is required.
05:41<graq>What's the quirk, Marius?
05:43<Peng>Ovron: Oh, so that's why Linode keeps hiring new people. Kernel rebuilds.
05:43<Ovron>must be, heckman's next
05:47<Marius>graq, cna't upgrade WP or plugins iwthout manually downloading and overwriting the existing files over sftp/ftp/whatever
05:48<Marius>upgreade wordpress through their own update progress, all successfull, but doens't replace files
05:48<Marius>update plugins, tells yo uthe archives are incompatible
05:48<Marius>and of course, I've tried chmoding everything to 777, double checked permissions and so fort
05:48<amitz>and what do you call that pronouncing systwem? a is alpha, r is romeo, etc?
05:49<Ovron>military phonetic alphabet
05:49<Ovron>there are a few different ones around, with different names for some letters
05:49<Peng>But Wikipedia perfers "spelling", so as not to confuse it with the International Phonetic Alphabet and such.
05:50<chesty>able baker charlie
05:50<amitz>ah, yeah phonetic alphabet as the right term for my purpose.
05:50<Peng>Haha, they moved it back. They had renamed it to "ICAO spelling alphabet".
05:52-!-orieg [] has quit [Quit: orieg]
05:53<amitz>it's for my tweet: the phonetic alphabet of f is not fera for god sake. i heard it as either era or vera. don't blame me.
05:53<Marius>f is foxtror
05:55<Peng>Depends on the alphabet in use. ICAO/NATO, which uses foxtrot, is the standard, of course.
05:55<Marius>If you want ot be picky, you could technically use anything you please
05:55<Peng>Fera, huh? I've heard of Frank, Freddy and Fox, but Fera?
05:55<Marius>in norway it's become the norm to use firstnames for them, because civilians are stupid and dont' understand phonetics
05:55<chesty>sorry, did you say s for soxtrot?
05:56<amitz>but fera.. it's like you're intentionally try to confuse.
05:56<Ovron>that kind of defeats the purpose
05:56<Marius>And I keep missing the last t and putting in a r
05:56<dr_jkl>lol Marius
05:56<Peng>Marius: Right. Even if your average customer service person knew it, they wouldn't expect the customers to.
05:56-!-kat78 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:56<Ovron>you forgot to add the "g" switch
05:57<Marius>we never add the g switch on irc!
05:57<Peng>I add g when necessary.
05:57<Ovron>we usually never do the same mistake 20 times in a row
05:57<Peng>Which is never!
05:57<Peng>How do you negotiate what spelling alphabet to use in an unofficial situation, like over the phone?
05:57<Marius>Ovron, you must be new here
05:57<Marius>I'm Marius, resident typo extraordinaire
05:57<dr_jkl>Peng: i use ICAO over the phone
05:58<dr_jkl>Marius: you're a member of the french resistance! \o/
05:58<Peng>I figure I'm likely to confuse someone if I actually ask "ICAO/NATO, LAPD, ...?"
05:58<Ovron>do you seriously spell things out with phonetic alphabets over the phone_
05:58<Marius>I use ICAO if the person on the other end is male and sounds liek he's over 30
05:58<dr_jkl>Ovron: yes
05:58<Marius>if not, first names all the way!
05:58<Marius>oh goodie, ANOTHER les mis fan
05:58<dr_jkl>in my ICAO alphabet, o is ALWAYS ostrich
05:58<dr_jkl>because ostriches are bitchin' as shit.
05:58<Ovron>fair enough
05:59<dr_jkl>Marius: i'm the same one who mentioned it last time :D
05:59*Peng sics ostriches on dr_jkl for breaking the standard
05:59<Marius>oh xD
05:59<Marius>it happens so often!
05:59<SpaceHob1> <-- What about Newfoundland, smartypants
05:59<Marius>I'm in Alpha!
05:59<Peng>The one time I've had the opportunity, I used ICAO on someone without asking first. I think it was with Linode, actually. Given the population of this channel, I figure the staff would probably know it. :P
06:00<Marius>I didn't know about that list :o
06:00<Peng>Is J really reserved for the local time zone? Is that specified in any standard?
06:01-!-krish [~krish@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:02<SpaceHob1>Peng: the thinkpad repair call centre in scotland tends to use ICAO without asking while talking with customers
06:03-!-krish [~krish@] has joined #linode
06:03<Peng>SpaceHob1: Awesome.
06:03<Peng>But ThinkPads have always been cool, right?
06:04<krish>thinkpad what
06:04-!-SpaceHob1 [] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting]
06:04<Peng>Heh, you missed *one* line.
06:04<Peng>11:02:21 < SpaceHob1> Peng: the thinkpad repair call centre in scotland tends to use ICAO without asking while talking with customers
06:04<krish>but yeah thinkpads are cool
06:04<krish>you drop them
06:04<krish>but then work
06:05<Peng>It wouldn't been cooler if you said "they bounce"
06:05<krish>they bounce back on ur desk
06:05<Peng>But not breaking is good too.
06:05<krish>wont let u let go off work
06:05<Peng>I wonder if call centers have their own spelling alphabets, or let people improvise?
06:06<dr_jkl>most places let you improvise
06:06<Ovron>use really long latin names for species of plants or bacteria
06:06<Peng>There was a gag on "Outsourced" where one of the Indian call center folks was using Indian words that made no sense to the American customers.
06:06<krish>Peng, rubber?
06:07<Marius>best client phone call EVER
06:07<Marius>O'll tell you all about it once it's over xD
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06:14<dr_jkl>c as in curry
06:15<Marius>how'd you know? :o
06:16<amitz>m as in marius.
06:17<amitz>not the lack of capital m.
06:17-!-bhavicnz [] has joined #linode
06:19<Ovron>am_itz b_d_ ca_ker domi_nikh eric_oc fin_ra gr_aq Hoopy_Cat ir_geek j_ed etc, we can make Linode Phonetic Alphabet
06:19*snubby ovronizes Ovron
06:20<Ovron>underscore breaks hilight, right?, heh
06:20<@ericoc>it does
06:20<Ovron>good :p
06:20<amitz>haz one last memorable thing that happened to me today, forget. lesson: tweet immediately.
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06:21<walterheck>hey guys, I am runnign apache with mod_fcgid in order to let every vhost have it's php processes run under a different user (shared environment). Would you guys consider it bad karma to let clients log in with the user credentails of those virtual users?
06:21<Ovron>log in where? shell access?
06:22<walterheck>Ovron: yeah
06:22<walterheck>it feels wrong, but it would be easy :)
06:22<Marius>holy crap I just found a messed up website :o
06:22<Ovron>I'd expect that's how it is done mostly in shared environments, but it is not something I have ever had to do, so I might be off.
06:22<Marius>when browsing it in chrome, it resizes it self to minimalistic
06:22<Marius>I cna't see shit on it
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06:28<spkitty>so does naturally produce css files with 1500 lines or do you have to try to fuck up that badly
06:29<Marius>"Hai, my site not working"
06:29-!-bhavicnz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:29<Marius>"That is correct, we took it down on October 19th because the last bill, issued on May 9th has yet to be paid
06:30<Marius>"But why I pay you, you not make my site, are yo usaying you made my website?"
06:30<Marius>"No, we host your website, and your domain name"
06:30<Marius>"I have to PAY to have things on the intertube?"
06:32<Marius>And, as a cruel twist of fate, he tried spelling an alternate email to have the invoice sent to
06:32<Marius>and he spelled it using random words he picked off a menu...
06:32<@ericoc>"k" as in "knife", "p" as in "psycho"
06:33<Marius>everyone at the office were laughing while I tried explaining that changing his domain to a .org wouldn't make it free
06:34<Ovron>oh wow, you're in customer support?
06:34<Ovron>my condolences
06:35<Marius>I'm actually in development :P
06:35<Marius>Head of the development department
06:35<Marius>...since I'm the only one in it xD
06:35<Ovron>haha :D
06:35<Marius>But let's not get caught up in technicalities!
06:36<Marius>But my boss gets too many calls, so the yautomatically redirect to me if he can't get to them in time or if he's in a meeting etc, as I'm the one best suited to answer most of them
06:36<Ovron>I bet you're also head of support department
06:36<Ovron>and billing
06:36<Marius>nah, we have someone else do billing :P
06:36<erik`>and CTO
06:36<Ovron>your boss is your alterego?
06:36<Marius>and support, I do support isnce I can usually do it while I do other things (handsfree, how did I ever cope without it?!?)
06:36<Ovron>ah so you are head of support then, didn't deny that :D
06:36<Marius>but we have technicians that usualyl do support
06:37<Ovron>by technicians you mean pre-recorded messages that all lead to you?
06:41<Marius>no, I mean 3 people that can drive out on site and shit :P
06:41<Marius>and 2 other dimwits in the back that are there to fix hardware issues...but they mostly surf youtube and facebook
06:41<amitz>ah, the elusive 3rd level support!
06:41<Ovron>Marius's in quite a bad state, he is now making up support personel that doesn't exist
06:42<Marius>amitz, isn't 3rd level the lowest one?
06:42<Marius>1st level is the big guys that actually know what thye are doing
06:42<Ovron>isn't 1st level... entry? the ones that can barely operate the telephone switch?
06:42<Marius>any wya, thye are just random noobs without any kind of education (not that I weight education so highly)
06:42<Marius>I've always heard it's reversed
06:43<Marius>they break more thne they fix I suspect xD
06:43<amitz>oh? In my past company, 3rd level support is actually the most chardcore of all.
06:43<Marius>well, I think I would rank as a 2.5 tbh
06:43<Ovron>I've got pretty raging once on phone call to HP support sweden
06:44<Ovron>mad eye-popping rage
06:44<Marius>if 3rd is the hardcore guys
06:44<Marius>granted windows servers are a joke xD
06:44<Marius>point and click on the big red start/stop button
06:44<Marius>I fixed the problem with yoru website, ma'am.
06:44<chesty>tac3 was the highest level in old job
06:44<amitz>Once it pops out, it's easier to pop out again. Or so I heard. careful ;-)
06:45<Ovron>the fuckwit refused to understand his only job was to connect me further up
06:45<Marius>did you use the code word?
06:46<amitz>Marius: is that... xkcd reference? ah, yes!
06:46<Marius>But of course it is!
06:46<Marius>What else would I reference
06:47<Marius>I try that word every time, hasn't caught on yet
06:47<Ovron>yep doesn't work
06:48<amitz>Marius: Once, I accidentally flirted with a customer service, I now learn that to get through an unusual request, you must flirt your way in!
06:48<Marius>what'd your wife think about that?
06:49<Marius>whip it, whip it good!
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06:51<amitz>I heard good stories from friends working in support. Once, 2 tellers seduced our 2 lucky guys :-p. The unbutonning, bowing, etc
06:52<Athenon>so my cpu usage from top...what number is that? how many cores, is it shared or is it my portion, etc?
06:53<chesty>is there something is sshd that would stop a umake of 002 working?
06:53<chesty>is there something in sshd that would stop a umask of 002 working?
06:53<Ovron>Athenon: you should see 4 bars unless you have it combined; those represent your 4 virtual CPUs, which at best can equal to one host CPU, or in worst case your fair share of the host.
06:54-!-xijiao [~xijiao@] has joined #linode
06:54<Kuboing>wait, so we don't actually get 4 CPU's?
06:54<Athenon>Ovron: there's one cpu% column O_O
06:54<Ovron>Athenon: install htop, <3
06:55<Ovron>Kuboing: was that a serious question? :p
06:55<Athenon>ok im using htop now
06:55<Kuboing>yes ;_;
06:55<Kuboing>I thought everyone had access to all the cores on the machine
06:56<Kuboing>more like, who uses it has it
06:57*Kuboing is disappointered
06:57-!-tiny [] has joined #linode
06:57<Ovron>are you trolling? the detector is flashing a bit
06:57<Peng>chesty: Yes, under some conditions and versions.
06:57<Ovron>it is just back from repairs though, it might need better calibration
06:58<Athenon>so apparently ajax chats (with 2 idle users) use like several times more cpu than everything else running combined
06:58<Ovron>Athenon: that software's probably broken
06:58<Athenon>im assuming because the code is crap and it refreshes every 2 seconds
06:58<Marius>depends how often you've set it to refresh the chat
06:58<Peng>Kuboing: Everyone can burst up to 4 cores. Aside from the oldest ones, the hosts all have more than that, though.
06:58<Ovron>Athenon: although, how much is it using?
06:59<Athenon>2-4% per idle user
06:59<Kuboing>which equals to 100 users per box
07:00<spkitty>there's not 100 users per box
07:00<spkitty>it depends on your plan
07:00<spkitty>bigger plan means less users per box
07:00<Kuboing>my plan has 100 users on my VM
07:02<Peng>And by that I mean a "Huh" equivalent of "What".
07:02<Peng>spkitty: That's not what Kuboing was talking about.
07:02<Marius>Huh works too
07:02<Peng>Kuboing: What are you talking about now, though?
07:02*Kuboing is waking up
07:03<Kuboing>and now it's time for morning ascii-porn
07:03<spkitty>Peng: so i see, too many threads of conversation here, i'll go back to yelling about whoever it was that programmed this damn website :v
07:04<Kuboing>ascii pr0n - world's first internet pornography
07:04<chesty>Peng: under what conditions and version will setting umask to 002 in sftp client fail to work on sshd?
07:05-!-Athenon [~Athenon@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:06<Peng>chesty: No idea. I just remember learning that.
07:08<Peng>I was checking back on some of the websites I used to set up my IPv6 tunnel. The tunnel running one of them is down. :|
07:09<Peng>And Firefox/my proxy seems to just time out instead of switching to IPv4. >.>
07:09<Kuboing>red pandas and panda - the reason why evolution is fake
07:10<chesty>Peng: yes, under some conditions and versions firefox will do that
07:13<Peng>chesty: Actually, all I knew about was SFTP. Were you talking about SSH in general? Somehow?
07:13<chesty>sftp, i looked in sshd_config manpage for a umask setting, there isn't one
07:14<linbot>New news from forums: One 1024 vs two 512 in Sales Questions and Answers <>
07:15-!-krish [~krish@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:15<chesty>/etc/skel/.profile:# for ssh logins, install and configure the libpam-umask package.
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07:29-!-BarkJr is now known as BarkerJr
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07:33<Audas>Any Linode staff around that can answer a quick question on an [about to be] new sign up?
07:33-!-metaperl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
07:34<chesty>just ask, the staff or someone will answer, if it's private, (or if sales doesn't exists)
07:35<chesty>oh, it's for pre-sales
07:35<graq>Sorry Marius, got called away. I've seen something similar before. Was down to a missing PHP module (ftp/curl related AFAIR).
07:37<yb>Having some issues with the timezone settings on my Linode with Ubuntu 10.10. I have the timezone set to GMT-5 using dpkg-reconfigure tzdata. When check the system time is says Fri Jan 7 17:36:15 GMT-5 2011 which is 10 hours off from where it should be at Fri Jan 7 7:36:15 GMT-5 2011
07:38<Peng>yb: What does date -u say?
07:38<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
07:38<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
07:38<Peng>Audas: ^
07:39*linbot hits tjfontaine with the rod of knowledge
07:39<Peng>Or not.
07:40<yb>Peng: Fri Jan 7 12:39:44 UTC 2011
07:43<Peng>OK, so that's correct...
07:43<Peng>yb: What does an ordinary "date" say?
07:44<yb>Peng: date says Fri Jan 7 17:44:00 GMT-5 2011 which is the off number
07:45<Peng>That's bizarre.
07:45<Peng>It's adding instead of subtracting?
07:46<yb>Peng: Changing the timezone to 'US/Eastern' gives the right time, but I need it to stay at EST/GMT-5 and never change to EDT
07:47<Marius>graq, I wish I could say "yup", but it was working fine until WP was updated to 3.0.2, I did the 3.0.3 manually by overwriting files (not the best approach), but that's tedious with a ton of plugins etc
07:47<Yaakov>yb: What is TZ right now?
07:48<yb>Its EST, so it is currently correct. It needs to stay in sync with a server which always stays in EST.
07:49<Yaakov>Then set it to GMT-5.
07:49<Yaakov>Because EST is NOT always valid, it is, by definition, only valid when EDT is not in effect.
07:50<Yaakov>But GMT-5 is always GMT-5.
07:50<yb>Yaakov: That is the problem, when set to Etc/GMT-5 the time is coming out 10 hours off where it should be
07:50<BarkerJr>except in microsoft products, where GMT-5 is sometimes GMT-4
07:50<Peng>ISTM Etc/GMT-5 has its settings reversed...
07:51<Peng>yb: Just for fun, what does Etc/GMT+5 do?
07:51<chesty>i was going to say that
07:51<chesty>then i though maybe Etc/UTC-5
07:52<chesty>GMT has daylight savings i think
07:52<yb>Peng: Well well well, what do you know. Etc/GMT+5 is showing EST
07:52<yb>They are reversed
07:53<BarkerJr>just use UTC and do the math in your head :P
07:54<Yaakov>You realize that these are offsets from your hardware clock, right?
07:55<BarkerJr>I hate hardware clocks
07:55-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
07:55<Yaakov>yb: Also, NOTHING "always stays in EST".
07:55<Peng>chesty: As of my zoneinfo, Their names are all "GMT", not "UTC".
07:56<Peng>I only use wetware clocks.
07:56<chesty>Peng: yeah, same here
07:56<Peng>yb: Just out of curiousity, why the hell do you have another box stuck in UTC-05:00?
07:56<Peng>yb: You should be making it sane, not perverting other, perfectly good boxes.
07:57<yb>Peng: Its not my box unfortunately I have to stay in sync with an external system
07:57<Yaakov>yb: The point is that system is NOT alway in EST. It is always GMT-5.
07:58<Yaakov>So get EST out of your head.
07:58<Peng>yb: Well you really need to hit the other sysadmin.
07:58<Peng>yb: Why is your app dealing with localtime anyway?
07:58<Peng>yb: You should use UTC internally.
07:58<Yaakov>Also, you might want to switch from POSIX to TAI.
07:59<Yaakov>Though that will probably make your brain melt.
08:00<Peng>Yes, it melted my brain long ago.
08:01<Audas>I gather PTR records are no available to set when not using own name server, correct?
08:02-!-yb [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
08:02-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
08:03<Peng>Audas: If it's the PTR for one of Linode's IPs, it's managed in the network settings page of the Linode it belongs to.
08:04<Peng>Audas: If you want to create PTR records in your own zone, that's right, the DNS manager doesn't support doing that as a master. However, if you set it up as a slave, it will serve whatever you send to it.
08:04<Peng>Audas: Or you could use another DNS host, of course.
08:05<Audas>Thanks Peng.
08:05-!-kmurph79 [] has joined #linode
08:05<Yaakov>A nice way to do it is with NSD as master on your 'node and slaved to Linode's serers.
08:05<Audas>Yaakov, yes. But I would rather save my memory. I will live without PTR for now.
08:06<Yaakov>Audas: NSD is very lightweight.
08:06<Audas>Yaakov, indeed.
08:07<Audas>Peng, the "network stettings" page, hwere is it? I look for it, can't find it. But I might be missing the obvious...
08:08<Audas>Duh, found it!
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08:23<linbot>New news from forums: Posts with ignorant curse words in the subject in General Discussion <>
08:24<Peng>Ooh, a new post!
08:30<graq>Marius: That is strange. Have you thought of doing the initial install as an SVN checkout. Then you could always upd using that on the command line.
08:31<amitz>my parents will be very....*bleep* to see my chat log.
08:31-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
08:32<chesty>urmom can't read
08:32<Marius>graq, that still leaves all my plugins alone in the dark though
08:32<amitz>and the things fellow linoders write about my mom :-p
08:34-!-krish [~krish@] has joined #linode
08:34<linbot>New news from forums: phpmyadmin help in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
08:34<amitz>no chance of teaching children about morality either -_-
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08:44<Andre4>hey how are you how to disable linode alerts?
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08:44<Andre4>i get 60 linode alerts about CPU usage for each linode instance, it's terrible
08:44<Andre4>my mail is flooded
08:44<Andre4>I lost important emails cuz of this
08:44<bliblok>Use less cpu, or adjust the threshold.
08:45<Andre4>For each linode invidiually?
08:45<Andre4>Totally terrible experience
08:45<JshWright>Andre4: if you're getting that many notifications, you might actually want to look at your CPU usage...
08:46<JshWright>The notifications are configurable, so if you'd like to not receive them, just set the threshold above your usage
08:46<Andre4>Your Linode, linode80526, has exceeded the notification threshold (90) for CPU Usage by averaging 96.7% for the last 2 hours.
08:46<Andre4>Is threshold set per each linode manually?
08:47<JshWright>yes, alerts are configurable per-linode (since different linodes on the same account might have different normal usages)
08:47<JshWright>it's on the settings page of the control panel
08:47<JshWright>you can raise the threshold, or disable the notification entirely
08:48<Andre4>how to disable notifications for all nodes?
08:48<Andre4>manually it's a lot of work
08:48<bliblok>How many nodes do you have?
08:48<Andre4>I did'nt count, 50 probably
08:49-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
08:49<chesty>you can't adjust the threshold through the api :(
08:50<Andre4>I am just unfairly hating the system now
08:50<JshWright>Andre4: the flexibility provided by making the alerts configurable per-linode is intentional, there isn't a way to disable all notifcations for an account
08:50<Andre4>Because I missed important mail
08:50<chesty>linode is self service
08:50<Andre4>It's like a whole page of alerts
08:51<JshWright>Andre4: you could open a ticket and see if a support guy is in a good mood and bored ;)
08:51<Peng>How do you miss important mail by getting a few alerts?
08:51<JshWright>Peng: sounds like he got several hundred alerts
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08:52<Yaakov>Peng: Panicked deletions of the alerts with collatarel damage!
08:52<JshWright>gmail Important Inbox ftw
08:52<chesty>sounds like someone is blaming alert emails for bad practice
08:53<Peng>JshWright: Still, so what?
08:53<Yaakov>Andre4: If you open a ticket, you might find some help.
08:53<chesty>don't be hating
08:53<Andre4>It's like a whole page of unread emails because of alerts, and between those endless alerts there was that important mail
08:53<Yaakov>Andre4: Particularly considering the large number of 'nodes you are maintaining.
08:54<Yaakov>Andre4: But you *should* use an inbox rule to deal with them immediately since that's the very easy immediate solution.
08:55<Andre4>H1B working visa for USA is almost reached, and the person was supposed to work in usa this year, and 8 day ago i received urgent notice that we need to file the papers right now or we'll miss the deadline
08:56-!-linville [] has joined #linode
08:56<Peng>I have to live with a One Big Inbox at the moment because my filters were client-side and I don't have access to that client. D:
08:57<Yaakov>SpaceHobo's first email was delivered on stone tablets carried by pterodactyles.
08:57<Andre4>But isn't one big inbox default and the best option to use the inbox?
08:57<Yaakov>They had no "e"s, though.
08:57<Andre4>You can't check for unread e-mails in different folders
08:57<Yaakov>Andre4: WHich client?
08:58<Yaakov>I knew without asking which client SpaceHobo was using.
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08:59<Andre4>I am using web gmail
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08:59<Andre4>I thought one big inbox without spam is the most streamlined way of using email
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09:00<Andre4>It's not like I am going to read each node individually out of the hundreds?
09:00<chesty>if you aren't going to read them, filter them
09:00<Yaakov>Andre4: When you have automated messages like these alerts, it makes the most sense to move them upon reciept to their own mailbox.
09:00<chesty>this sounds like a seinfeld episode
09:00<Andre4>I didn't know that I am going to be flooded
09:01<Andre4>So I didn't know for what I should make filters
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09:01<chesty>click an alert then click filter messages like these
09:01<Yaakov>Andre4: As a rule, I move all automated email to special inboxes because programs don't care about being rude.
09:02<Yaakov>Andre4: I also use colors to indicate importance of certain senders to make visually scanning the inbox easier.
09:02<Andre4>How to make filter for all automated e-mail?
09:03<Peng>Yaakov: Stop showing off your superiour email client! :P
09:03<Yaakov>SpaceHobo: That file is in EBCDIC!
09:03<Yaakov>SpaceHobo: Why the serious face?
09:04<Andre4>Are there filters which can distinguish human mails vs automated mails
09:04<graq>Marius: That depends. If they are from, then they can be managed via svn:externals
09:04<Andre4>For gmail?
09:05<Andre4>Normal people can't use linodes?
09:06<graq>I'm glad I don't have all these email issues.
09:06<Andre4>I mean the gmail people, like me
09:07<storrgie_>anyone willing to help me out with some mdadm?
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09:07<Karrde>selling lv 100 charizard
09:08<Andre4>What if you have multiple devices
09:08<Andre4>You can't configure local mail client for each of them
09:08<Andre4>And they don't support techie filters
09:08<Andre4>I mean mobile phone, for instance
09:09<Andre4>But not all users are supposed to set their own mail servers
09:09<JshWright>Andre4: don't worry about the email snobs, gmail is a great webmail client
09:10<JshWright>Andre4: open an email you'd like to filer, and in the "More actions" drop-down, select "Filter messages like these"
09:10<Andre4>JshWright thanks
09:10<Andre4>SpaceHobo but you can't do that from the nokia thing
09:11<JshWright>that will create a rule for you, and you can even "backdate" the filter with a little checkbox that appears offering to "apply this filter to the xxxx messages below"
09:11<Andre4>But nobody uses phone calls any more
09:12<Andre4>Why not
09:12<Andre4>What if servers are going to go down when you are out
09:13<JshWright>in gmail, if something actually hits my inbox, it's probably important, everything else is moved right off to a label and "archived" so it doesn't show up in my inbox (the labels still keep track of read/unread)
09:13<Andre4>Why do you think that gmail is not urgent communication medium
09:13<Andre4>It's quite reliable
09:13<Andre4>I mean mail
09:14<amitz>reliably time delayed?
09:14<JshWright>Andre4: I'm with SpaceHobo on this one... e-mail is good for _important_ communications, but not urgent communications
09:14<chesty>get a room
09:16<Marius>graq, still effort :P and I have my own plugins etc as well, I can't even update them without overwriting
09:16<amitz>I'm disturbed that I instantly got the joke :-p
09:18<amitz>cheap and loud ring tone ftw!
09:18<chesty>SpaceHobo: i have bad news for you, they are making cheap smart phones for the base model now
09:19<chesty>that's what i read
09:19<Andre4>Nokia 1100 looks kind of old
09:19<chesty>so does SpaceHobo
09:20<chesty>predictive text?
09:20<Andre4>You can try new devices
09:20<graq>Marius: I just use the SVN trick initially, so I can quickly force and upgrade on various WP installs without logging in.
09:21<amitz>motorla f3(c) is pretty good, except of the damn weird letters. E-ink.
09:22*graq I have a Nokia 1100. I use the flash light all the time.
09:23<Peng>What's with everybody using
09:23<Marius>graq, feel free to PM me the entire setup process ;P
09:23<Marius>I have to run out now
09:23<amitz>SpaceHobo: sucks eh -_-
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09:27<Peng>I use when I log in, but otherwise I don't bother.
09:28<chesty>firesheep taught you nothing?
09:28<amitz>Peng: oh, as for me, SpaceHobo's https begets my https.
09:28<Peng>What should Firesheep have taught me?
09:28<Yaakov>I only use crypto when communicating Juian Assange's current location.
09:28<Peng>I have no non-SSL cookies of any interest on Wikipedia.
09:28<Peng>In fact, no cookies of interest at all, since I rarely ever log in.
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09:30<Dale>Are linodes ips static or dynamic by default?
09:31<chesty>st st st st static
09:31<chesty>if you change datacentres, you get a new ip
09:33<Dale>Should I allowNTP & DHCP inbound connections? I'm running vanila debian.
09:34-!-Xenc [] has joined #linode
09:34<Dale>Are they installed by default?
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09:35<chesty>sudo netstat -nlp | less
09:37<Peng>Dale: You should have a DHCP client enabled by default. You can switch to a static networking config if you want to. If NTP isn't enabled, and you're using a modern kernel, you should install it or your clock will drift.
09:38<Dale>So my ip is dynamic by default?
09:38<Peng>Dale: No.
09:38<Peng>Dale: The networking configuration on your node is dynamic by default for ease-of-use.
09:38<Peng>Dale: As I said, you can switch to a static config if you want to.
09:39<chesty>it uses dhcp by default, but the ip is static
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09:39<Peng>HTTPS-Everywhere is nifty.
09:39<Peng>I'm amused that the EFF web page for it is plain HTTP by default.
09:40-!-Megaf [~megaf@] has joined #linode
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09:40<Dale>Select Type of Internet Address: Static Internet IP Address Y Dynamic Internet IP Address N
09:41<chesty>you probably want "dynamic" even though your ip never changes
09:41<Dale>Peng Can you confirm?
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09:43<Dale>Thanks for help guys.
09:43<Dale>One more thing does dhcp need inbound?
09:44<JshWright>well, it needs to allow established connections
09:45<JshWright>DHCP requests are initiated by the local machine
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09:49<linbot>New news from forums: Scheduling a reboot in General Discussion <>
09:53<Audas>Following the LAMP instructions for Ubuntu LTS, about to install php, is telling me that "apache2-mpm-worker" will be removed and "apache2-mpm-prefork" will be installed instead. Is that good/better?
09:53<Audas>Ah! Hmmm...
09:54<Audas>Can't here. Unfortunately.
09:54<pharaun>when i see php, i *run*
09:54<straterra>Python lovers
09:54<Audas>pharaun, you must be always runnuing.
09:55*thegodlikehobo explodes
09:55<Perihelion>I don't have my /creeper alias :<
09:55<@jed>import snakes
09:56<@jed> _ _ _
09:56<d-b>jed: is that all?
09:56<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
09:56<d-b>what a let down
09:56<linbot>THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!
09:56<@jed>yeah, figlet ... is boring
09:56<straterra>jed: triballer?
09:56<@jed>apparently, dunno wtf happened there
09:56<straterra>. <-- jed
09:57<@jed><-- jed
09:57-!-xijiao_ [~xijiao@] has joined #linode
09:57*d-b != jed
09:57-!-Dale [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
09:58<Pryon>if(jed == *(&jed)) puts("woot!");
09:58<straterra>segmentation fault
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09:59<@jed>dereference an address?
09:59<Pryon>That's just about the only thing you *can* dereference
09:59<@jed>that's going to make things angry, which I guess makes sense given who the joke's about
10:01*Pryon wonders if that's dopey enough to get optimized away...
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10:06<Pryon>Indeed. gcc gets rid of it
10:06<straterra>gcc is lame
10:07<Pryon>No, lame is an mp3 encoder
10:07<chesty>gcc is also linux kernel
10:08<straterra>Pryon: but LAME ain't an MP3 encoder!
10:10<hawk>(They've actually changed their mind about that, though, haven't they?)
10:10<Pryon>Lame Acronyms Molest Everyone
10:10<straterra>Hide yo kids
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10:16<graq>Java is the only way forward.
10:16<straterra>Java should die too
10:18*graq chortles
10:18<graq>You fell for my clever joke. I meant coffee!
10:18<straterra>I think I angered the Perihelion
10:18<Pryon>Nah, she's just not into chortling
10:19<graq>Do you need a poking stick?
10:19<straterra>Fair enough
10:19<graq>Is Mike here? Is it safe to mention the C word?
10:20-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
10:20*graq whispers: cake
10:20-!-xijiao__ [~xijiao@] has joined #linode
10:21<@mikegrb>mmm cake
10:21-!-soczol [] has joined #linode
10:21<pharaun>Audas: yeah i am ;-p
10:22-!-vraa [] has joined #linode
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10:25<pharaun>things that makes me unreasonably angry --> Work wiki keeps on destroying the text formatting everytime i edit it
10:25<linbot>New news from forums: Linode AJAX shell and Unicode in General Discussion <>
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10:31<@mikegrb>mmm cake
10:31<@mikegrb>mmm cake
10:31<d-b>as if !cake isn't a valid command
10:33-!-sorressean [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
10:33<straterra>DO WANT
10:33<@mikegrb>mmm cake
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10:35<d-b>SpaceHobo: clearly it doesn't float on water
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10:38<Audas>NameVirtualHost, does it goes on the main apache2.conf or it must be declared on each virtual host file?
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10:44<Nick`>anyone know how to enter my cvv number when i click "add linode"
10:44-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
10:45<graq>Does this help, Nick:
10:45<Perihelion>You may need to use the make a payment feature if your bank absolutely requires it
10:45<d-b>SpaceHobo: maybe
10:46*graq boggles.
10:46<Nick`>ty lol
10:48<graq>I don't user Apache on my node. So I'm a bit rusty. But I'd put something like 'NameVirtualHost <NODE IP>:80' in httpd.conf
10:49<graq>If my ol' brain remembers right.
10:49<graq>Although the ':80' is probably implicit
10:49<Audas>graq, your ol' brain is right. Working. Thanks!
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10:54<Kuboing>hmm... anyone here knows how to 'speed up' exim? it's currently sending at 1 message per second :|
10:55<d-b>Kuboing: yes remove it and stall something else
10:56<Peng>stall? Freudian slip?
10:57<Kuboing>d-b: unfortunately. not possible
10:57<Kuboing>the client has installed a broken copy of whm/cpanel
10:58<Kuboing>it's currently sending at the blistering speed of 1 message per second
10:58<d-b>Kuboing: wait cpanel can't work with anything but exim?
10:58<d-b>that's awesome!
10:58<Kuboing>and there is a mail queue of 6 million messages which "may not be lost"
10:58<d-b>oh no
10:58<d-b>that doesn't sound good
10:58-!-jirolu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:01<Kuboing>and the stupid client is also sending each message with a single To instead of a BBC
11:02<Deezire_>You should be fined for doing that.
11:02<Deezire_>And Reply All should be illegal.
11:03<d-b>Deezire_: reply all with 500,000 users :P
11:03<amitz>Deezire_: and you should be required to type all the emails instead, without auto-complet!
11:04<Ori>Kuboing: "Ok. Well, the way you're doing it, the mails will be sent over the next 69 days. Have a nice day, and thanks for your business."
11:04<linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Deploy Web Applications with on Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid) <> || Deploy Python Code with WSGI using uWSGI and nginx on Arch Linux <> || Deploy Python Code with WSGI using uWSGI and nginx on Fedora 14 <> || Analyze Web Traffic
11:04-!-Yaakov [] has quit [Quit: I want my memory back!]
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11:07<Kuboing>is there really no option in exim which limits it from sending mails in a specific time period?
11:08<graq>Man has won £272,500.00 on a £2.50 bet.
11:08<pharaun>reply all == illegal
11:08<pharaun>anyone who uses it needs to be put up in front of a firing squad
11:09<graq>But, how else will you communicate to all the recipients?
11:09-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
11:09<linbot>New news from forums: My Mediawiki site is very slow in Performance and Tuning <>
11:09*graq thinks email is so old hat.
11:11<Deezire_>graq: You shouldnt use email for that kind of work anyway :p
11:11<straterra>What is you speak of?
11:11<Yaakov>pharaun: I use it all the time, and quite intentionally. NOT using it is the exception.
11:12<pharaun>Yaakov: heh, yes but i just often get caught in a "reply all" spam crossfire
11:12-!-PeteMall [] has joined #linode
11:12<pharaun>so it gets a bit weary to be cc'd into something that i don't give a damn about
11:12<Yaakov>pharaun: Let's agree that careless addressing is bad.
11:13<pharaun>Yaakov: amen, i mean reply-all can be useful but it just seems to be the default action here
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11:13<graq>Deezire_ That's just the kinda place I work!
11:14<Yaakov>pharaun: It really should be. But if you are Cc:'ing in a marginal fashion then Reply All is broken. Your ORIGINAL recipient list should be well thought out.
11:14<mwalling>pharaun: i have reply all as my default action
11:15<pharaun>Yaakov: yeah i guess, another compromising problem is the email client that i'm forced to use does not "deal" with email very well at all (no threading/etc) so it just makes the whole thing annoying
11:15<Deezire_>If you're using email for collaboration, you're doing it wrong
11:16<pharaun>mwalling: yeah after a while i gave up and do that at work now, but i do try to take care to keep the "to/cc" field to be well thought out
11:17<d-b>pharaun: so i hrd u use outlook
11:17<mwalling>well, yeah
11:17<amitz>I believe, by original design, cc is not meant to be involved in the conversation.
11:17-!-jxpx777 [] has joined #linode
11:17<pharaun>d-b: no, lotus notes
11:17<d-b>pharaun: OHGOD
11:17<mwalling>also, dont reply all when you're a BCC
11:17<mwalling>pharaun: thats written in teh javurs
11:18<amitz>s/cc/people who are cc-ed/
11:18<d-b>that will cost you 10 lives
11:18<pharaun>mwalling: haha yes it is, its the only reason that i'm even able to run ubuntu as my OS on my laptop at work, but it is pretty slow/crashy
11:18-!-gmcharlt [~gmcharlt@] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
11:19<pharaun>and oh yeah how about a ton of GUI issues, caching issues, and oh yeah, if you don't use gnome/metacity as the window manager it will crash and not work, and various other fun hacks
11:19<pharaun>and oh how about it creating like 20 directory in /home to turn it into a cesspit
11:20<d-b> mutt >
11:20<pharaun>d-b: i use mutt at home it is indeed > anything
11:21<pharaun>my work homedirectory is now the ghetto
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11:29<Amy_>mind if a newbie asks some questions?
11:29<Amy_>i want to switch hosting and my friend recommends linode
11:29<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
11:30<Amy_>laf, thanks
11:30<pharaun>Amy_: do keep in mind linode is unmanaged
11:30<Amy_>eh, i guess i just don't know if i feel up to installing everything myself
11:30<pharaun>but it is a great service but you'll need to set up things yourself, but we can usually help :)
11:30<Amy_>when i read about the installing things yourself, i was both frightened and excited :p
11:31<pharaun>nice thing about installing yourself is you get the flexability to set things up exactly how you want/need it
11:31<Amy_>excited because of not having to deal with "zuh?" and "no" when i would ask my host to upgrade their php or something
11:31<pharaun>but you do have to deal with security and other stuff
11:32<pharaun>i think some people here may offer "services" in that they can take care of your servers if you want, but ofc it'll also cost ya some money
11:32<pharaun>so there are options :)
11:33<Amy_>my friend would do that stuff i think, if i wanted
11:33<Amy_>well, thanks :)
11:33<Amy_>i guess i just have to decide if i want to get out of my comfort zone
11:34<Amy_>i like control, but linux will be a learning curve
11:34-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
11:34<Perihelion>CHeck out the Linode Library:
11:35<pharaun>its an excellent resource \o/
11:35<Amy_>thanks, i'm stuffing my brain there now :)
11:36<eyecool>Amy_: you can install Virtualmin.. it's a control panel for creating+managing sites, dns, databases.. it automates everything you need to host your server while you learn linux
11:37<Amy_>oh, neato, checking that out now
11:37<soczol>I can't resize my disks without shutting down the linode, right?
11:37<eyecool>Virtualmin gpl is free. Linode has an amazing backup service. I think you've already made your decision (to sign up). See ya around!
11:38<Peng>Which is not to say that you can install Virtualmin and forget about being a sysadmin, but it makes things easier.
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11:38<Peng>You still have to secure and upgrade your server.
11:39<soczol>"Linode must be shutdown before resize", guess that answers my question!
11:39<eyecool>Peng: that's what the Library is for :) Buy virtualmin > cpanel or whatever panel ISPs use..
11:39<eyecool>but, not buy
11:40-!-hfb [] has joined #linode
11:40*hawk goes off to buy virtualmin anyway
11:41<gbit>There is a way to use linode's dns servers without using, ns2... and using the customer domain or other domain?
11:41<hawk>gbit: If you want the zone to be hosted by Linode's server you should use the ns{1,2,3,4,5} servers
11:42<graq>Amy_, one of the best things about hosting like linode is the prorata billing and short contracts. So if you want to spend $20 and month learning, you can.
11:43<Peng>gbit: It's technically possible, but you'd be out-of-luck if Linode changes the nameservers' IPs.
11:43<gbit>hawk, there is no way to cover this?
11:43<Amy_>i was just thinking that
11:43<Peng>gbit: Why do you want to do it? For clients?
11:43<hawk>gbit: You want to "hide" it?
11:44<gbit>yes hide it, sorry about my english
11:44<eyecool>hawk: I'll hook u up with Virtualmin GPL. + install any other software you want, for 50% of your ram
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11:44*eyecool is addicted to memcache and will take it any way he can get it
11:44<eyecool>that's what she said
11:45<hawk>gbit: Well, technically, sure, you can make up your own names that point to those same IP addresses, but then if the Linode nameservers change addresses you're in for a bit of trouble
11:45<Peng>You're in a lot of trouble. The world ends.
11:45<graq>I seem to have engineered my way out of using memcache (whilst removing apache).
11:45<hawk>Peng: Oh noes! I had no idea it was that bad!
11:46<eyecool>graq: my goal is to never hit disk!
11:47<graq>eyecool: that is very difficult for a web server...
11:47<pharaun>eyecool: remove the disk :3
11:47<Peng>hawk: If anyone encourages you to do it, they're invading aliens!
11:47<pharaun>when there is no disk you cannot hit the disk ;-p
11:48<graq>Ram UR Disk!
11:48<pharaun>I'm in ur linode ramdisking ur mom
11:48<graq>I server all my stuff from disk. Cache it to disk. Serve it up with nginx.
11:49<graq>My mom loves ramdisks
11:49<pharaun>well if your content is actually small enough to fit into memory
11:49<Peng>I run memcached in swap.
11:49<pharaun>you might be able to "almost" run things purely in memory, but from time to time its going to have to dump things to disk
11:49<pharaun>like you know, disk caches :-p
11:49<eyecool>or your memory is large enough to fit in your content
11:49<@pparadis>your truck's got four wheel drive? mine
11:49<@pparadis>has 5!
11:50-!-Gika [~giacomo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:50<@pparadis>my 12 guage has 13 guages!
11:50-!-synapt [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:50<pharaun>pparadis: uuuh that makes no sense, you lose a tire off a 6 wheel drive? ;-p
11:50<eyecool>no disk being the goal, yields low io and low io makes me hungry for PF Changs, mang
11:51<@pparadis>i like apples
11:51<graq>I've got 7! 2 front, 4 back and one on the boot!
11:51<eyecool>I like linode meetups in Ibiza
11:51<eyecool>with apple bottom jean freaky freakies
11:51<graq>Epromdisks used to be the tastiest.
11:52<@pparadis>eyecool: what about the boots with the fur?
11:52<eyecool>got a stiffy just lookn at herrrrr
11:52<eyecool>something like that
11:52*graq actually went to Ibiza with glowsticks. In the 90s.
11:53<graq>We werel, like, so cool.
11:53*eyecool humps graqs right leg
11:53<eyecool>below the knee
11:53<eyecool>but above the ankle
11:53<graq>That's very specific.
11:53<eyecool>I <3 the tibia... gimme some more fibula
11:53<graq>I have an abnormally short shin bone, so good luck with that.
11:55-!-atula [] has joined #linode
11:55<eyecool>Public Enemy #1
11:55<eyecool>Bonita Applebum
11:56<graq>Thanks crunchy, I've finished work for the week.
11:57<eyecool>^5 graq
11:57-!-Ciovala [] has joined #linode
11:57<eyecool>any fun weekend plans?
11:58<Ciovala>Anyone else on linode24624 slow? Trying to find out why my site has basically collapsed today :p
12:00-!-user1232 [] has joined #linode
12:00-!-user1232 [] has quit []
12:01<eyecool>what dc?
12:03<Peng>Ciovala: linode24624 is your node. So you know better than us who else is on it and how slow it is. :D
12:04-!-malex [] has joined #linode
12:05*malex wonders if the 2.6.35 paravirt doesn't have the hardware clock bug anymore. It' not possible to run iotop on 2.6.18, so finding a more modern kernel that actually keeps the time correctly would be great.
12:05-!-raulgrell [~raulgrell@] has joined #linode
12:05<Peng>malex: What hardware clock bug?
12:05-!-v0lksman [] has joined #linode
12:05<raulgrell>Hey guys, how long does it usually take for a new accout to be approved?
12:05<Peng>malex: One quick "apt-get install ntp"* and I've had no clock issues on any pv_ops kernel.
12:06<Peng>* Plus hours of configuring and recompiling newer versions, but that's not the point!
12:06<graq>eyecool: Sadly not. Lots of cleaning and tidying to do.
12:06<Peng>raulgrell: Several seconds.
12:06<Peng>raulgrell: If the anti-fraud system doesn't like you, a few minutes to a few hours. Check your email for further instructions.
12:06<Solver>unless it gets flaged for review by a human, as I understand
12:06<Ciovala>ahh loon peng
12:06<Ciovala>loon = lol )
12:06<raulgrell>shame... it's been almost an hour
12:07<malex>Peng: at least on 2.6.32 I was getting multi-year offsets, so caker told me to go back to 2.6.18 until the issue would be resolved. I can't find the bug link he gave me then, so decided to ask here again.
12:07<Peng>raulgrell: Unless you really are using a stolen credit card, in which case infinity. ;-D
12:07<raulgrell>damnit! my plan has been foiled! I must flee!
12:07<Peng>malex: Oh, that. Yeah, the world's a crazy place. I've been lucky enough to avoid that issue.
12:07*raulgrell flees
12:07<MrYiff>Ciovala: in the linode manager look in the bottom right, it should tell you what host you are on and give you a basic idea of the hosts load status
12:07<linbot>New news from forums: Mercury Drupal and Apache Solr Integration in General Discussion <>
12:07<Ciovala>when reading apc.php is there any good idea of when you need to increase it?
12:08-!-kenichi [] has joined #linode
12:09-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
12:09<Ciovala>ok idle load for the server itself then :) So i am the problem :D
12:10<Peng>Was the load thingy in the manager ever fixed after the switch to Xen?
12:10<MrYiff>check your graphs, might show you at least when the load occurred
12:11<Peng>s/load thingy/host load thingy/
12:11-!-a|newkirk[assoc] is now known as alnewkirk
12:11-!-orieg [] has joined #linode
12:12<Ciovala>well its slow now anyway.... my graphs all look normal now but it's still slow
12:12-!-kaitocracy [] has joined #linode
12:13<eyecool>Four, tres, two, uno
12:14<MrYiff>Ciovala: something using lots of RAM?
12:14<Ciovala>Mem: 616672k total, 607948k used, 8724k free, 5124k buffers Swap: 262136k total, 144k used, 261992k free, 101784k cached
12:15<Peng>Yeah, that isn't good...
12:15<Peng>Ciovala: What's the middle line?
12:15<Yaakov>Ciovala: free -m What does the second line say?
12:16<Ciovala>-/+ buffers/cache: 488 113
12:16-!-vraa_ [] has joined #linode
12:16<Peng>Oh, that was a quote from top, wasn't it? Sorry.
12:17<Ciovala>yeah the originalone was :)
12:17*eyecool is syphoning Ciovala's ram 4 memcached
12:17<MrYiff>OH NOES!
12:17<Ciovala>my traffic doubled today so probably me, ust trying to sort out if i need to upgrade vps or do something else )
12:18<MrYiff>probably just need to fix apache if thats what you use
12:18<MrYiff>likewise with mysql
12:18-!-techhelper1 [~techhelpe@] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
12:18-!-artista-frustrado [~fernando@] has joined #linode
12:18<Ciovala>mediawiki is a pig anyway
12:18<Peng>Ciovala: You may need to upgrade, but most likely tuning things will get everything back under control.
12:18<tanto>is there a decent alternative to mediawiki?
12:19<artista-frustrado>I'm having serious problems with disk I/O on my node
12:19<Ciovala>idea for a good faq to read somewhere on that? :D
12:19<artista-frustrado>I'm using debian
12:19<tanto>artista: you can use iotop to figure out what the problem is
12:20<@pparadis>also -->
12:20<Ciovala>iotop wont even run for me, need a new kernel
12:21<Peng>tanto: MoinMoin is probably hte most popular.
12:21<Solver>twiki changed to a mediawiki like syntax and has proper ACLs I understand
12:21*Solver is not endorsing twiki with these comments :)
12:21<Ciovala>:) If they had semantic mediawiki stuff id try them
12:22-!-vraa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:22<tanto>can moinmoin use spaces in page/link names?
12:22<tanto> - i can't use a wiki that doesn't have spaces
12:23<@jed>I don't even think MediaWiki can
12:24-!-spikku [] has joined #linode
12:24<tanto>my mediawiki install does..
12:24<@jed>with "_"?
12:24<@jed>or does it accept %20 now?
12:24<tanto>when you're ready it just shows a space, but in the URL it replaces it with _
12:25<tanto>but reading is the important bit. who wants to read a ton of text with no spaces?
12:25<Ciovala>iostat says this
12:25<Ciovala>- Linux >= 2.6.20 with I/O accounting support: Not found
12:25<Ciovala>which is true :p
12:25<@jed>Ciovala: you're running latest stable, which is not at least 2.6.20; latest paravirt, however, is a recent vintage
12:25<Ciovala>if i just switch to that and reboot does severything work? i
12:25<@pparadis>you may need to install ntp
12:26<@jed>if you can't afford downtime, I'd try it on another Linode by cloning your current one
12:26<@jed>otherwise, yeah, it should Just Work
12:26<Ciovala>site is mostly unusable now anyway
12:26<Ciovala>so slow
12:27-!-JM [] has joined #linode
12:27<Peng>pparadis: s/may/will/
12:27<Peng>Well, unless it's installed already. Or you don't care about time.
12:27<@pparadis>Peng: some people already run ntp.
12:28<@pparadis>or don't care, yeah.
12:28<Peng>Not caring sucks, though, since it takes no effort.
12:28<Peng>ISTM the risk of caring in the future is worth typing one package install command.
12:29<Peng>Then again, I get uncomfortable when my clock is more than 15 ms off...
12:30<Peng>Trying to get into the mind of a normal person, I think it's still worth typing that one command. Abuse reports, weird bugs, general confusion....
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12:38<Ciovala>hmm if i up the apc cache it gets faster
12:41-!-Jere [] has joined #linode
12:43<Peng>Ciovala: It also uses more RAM, which is not something you have much of right now.
12:43-!-Dale [] has joined #linode
12:44<Dale>is it normal for a fresh debian lamp stacksript to be using 5gb disk space?
12:45<Peng>Dale: Is it *using* five gigs, or does it just have a 5 gig partition?
12:45<Peng>Dale: df -h
12:46<straterra>INODES FTL
12:46-!-orieg [] has quit [Quit: orieg]
12:47<Dale>Hmm... it's 534mb
12:47-!-Gika [] has joined #linode
12:47<pharaun>oh on *that* topic of inodes, hardlinks consumes inodes right, so what about filesystems that don't exactly use inodes? is there like a cap on number of hardlink/files on those filesystem?
12:47-!-jxpx777 [] has quit [Quit: Mac is sleeping…]
12:47<Peng>Dale: Well then. :)
12:48<Dale>Yea thanks! it must be backups using it up.
12:48<Peng>Dale: Where does it say you're using 5 GB?
12:50<Dale>Oops... I'm looking at my linode dashboard storage usage. :P
12:50-!-cereal [] has joined #linode
12:51<pharaun>yeah that'll do that :-p
12:51<Peng>Dale: Yeah, that's saying you hav a 5 GB virtual hard drive (well, partition), not that 5 GB of it is full.
12:52-!-cereal [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:58<pharaun>guys iam a noob........n iam startin wid php........pls recommend me sum gud books
12:59<pharaun>SpaceHobo: haha, actually never read it, seen several movies -_-
12:59-!-RoosterJuice [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:59-!-Absolute0 [] has joined #linode
12:59<Absolute0>How can I host more than 1 site on the same linode using a different domain name? Would I require a second ip?
13:00<pharaun>SpaceHobo: hahah nice one!
13:00<HoopyCat>Absolute0: your web server likely supports virtual hosting, which means it'll determine what hostname the client wants through a Host: header
13:00<Absolute0>nginx server_name?
13:00<Peng>Absolute0: It gets more complicated if you want more than one SSL site. Then getting a second IP is probably a good idea.
13:00<Peng>Absolute0: Look up "Nginx virtual hosting".
13:00<HoopyCat>Absolute0: yeah, that's the one
13:01<Absolute0>is it a simple process?
13:01<HoopyCat>Absolute0: you end up with multiple server{} stanzas, each with a different server_name
13:01<pharaun>SpaceHobo: hah don't like php, but was inspired by *this* ->
13:01<HoopyCat>Absolute0: out of apache, lighttpd, and nginx, i'd say nginx is probably the most simple and intuitive
13:01<pharaun>nice link on quotes tho :-D
13:02<Absolute0>what happens to the reverse dns?
13:02<Absolute0>do i even need that? :)_
13:02<HoopyCat>Absolute0: nobody looks at it :-)
13:02<chesty>don't think of the game
13:03<Peng>Absolute0: You should set your reverse DNS to a hostname that resolves to your IP.
13:03<HoopyCat>Absolute0: i generally set it to the system's hostname, which is within a "corporate" domain (for lack of a better word)
13:03<Peng>Absolute0: The default fits this requirement, of course.
13:03<pharaun>HoopyCat: you are corporate!
13:04-!-Jordan- [~Jordan@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:04<Absolute0>ok unrelated question: I am unable to setup adsense (unapproved) are there any decent ad/afiliate serviced that you guys use to make some extra cash?
13:04<HoopyCat>Absolute0: e.g. i'm right now looking at the config for boston.<clientdomain>.com on a server named app3-dev.<mycompany>.com
13:04<Peng>If you're a web comic, obviously you should use
13:04<pharaun>SpaceHobo: amen
13:04<Absolute0>i am not a web comic, whats a web comic? :)
13:05<pharaun>a comic that does the web ;)
13:05<HoopyCat>Absolute0: the business side of things is, alas, my weak point :-)
13:05<Peng>It's not like PW is soley intended for web comics. That's just where it got popular.
13:05<Peng>And where it was born.
13:06<Absolute0>any other options? Google mostly gives me spam
13:06*Peng doesn't make extra cash.
13:06-!-NiftyLettuce [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:07-!-artista-frustrado [~fernando@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:07-!-NiftyLettuce [] has joined #linode
13:07-!-vraa_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:07<Absolute0>do advertises simply contact you once your site hits off?
13:07-!-SleePy [] has joined #linode
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13:07<mbreslin>Absolute0: name based virtual hosting is detailed there
13:07<Absolute0>mbreslin: thanks
13:07<HoopyCat>they say prostitution is the oldest profession, but i have more luck as a consultant
13:08<Absolute0>HoopyCat: maybe you need to get a boob job? :-P
13:08<@pparadis>HoopyCat: same thing ;)
13:08<deejoe>oh, great
13:08<mbreslin>Absolute0: nearly all general questions have a linode guide
13:08<deejoe>not really the image I needed today
13:08<HoopyCat>Absolute0: eh, been working on attenuating the moobs a bit, but... wait what
13:09<Absolute0>start doing push ups
13:09<HoopyCat>Absolute0: hmm... was doing them for awhile, but then stopped because the floor was getting ugly. that's a good point.
13:10<mbreslin>arms spread apart quite far
13:10<Peng>Ugly floor?
13:10<mbreslin>normal push-ups work a different muscle
13:13<Absolute0>you guys think this site has any potential? ?
13:13-!-vcardoso [~vcardoso@] has joined #linode
13:13<HoopyCat>Peng: in need of vacuuming
13:13<mbreslin>Absolute0: just in case you better keep with it
13:14<mbreslin>what if it could have been something huge but you quit early
13:14<Absolute0>define: keep with it?
13:14<JshWright>HoopyCat: you break the roomba?
13:14<HoopyCat>Absolute0: the one thing i've observed over the years is that it is impossible to answer that question :-) sometimes great things fizzle, sometimes crappy one-off rough drafts explode
13:14<mbreslin>that would probably be a " "
13:14<HoopyCat>JshWright: no, it just makes noise so i don't run it when i'm working, and it eats cats so i don't run it when i'm not here
13:14<mbreslin>HoopyCat: thanks for ruining my joke ;/
13:14<Absolute0>I am unemployed and not sure if i'd want to go back to work
13:15<Absolute0>trying to push different sites out and see where that goies
13:15-!-raulgrell [~raulgrell@] has left #linode []
13:15<Absolute0>I was doing a phd but that turned out to be a waste of time
13:15-!-disinpho [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:15<Absolute0>well i wasnt doing anything else at the time and i got funding :)
13:15-!-disinpho [] has joined #linode
13:16<HoopyCat>Absolute0: at the very least, it'll be something you've done. and if you abandon the project, then... well, where would you be able to post about it? :-)
13:16<HoopyCat>mbreslin: gotta jump on it, yo. missed opportunity.
13:16<HoopyCat>mbreslin: it's not software, you can't patent it
13:17<Absolute0>yay 49 unique visits since production :)
13:18<mbreslin>Absolute0: i'd only consider phd if it was going to get me my dream job
13:18<HoopyCat>Absolute0: one of those is my web browser, the other is my IRC client's link checker ;-)
13:18<mbreslin>i've been in the same master's program for 10 years
13:18<Absolute0>all the research areas seem like dead ends
13:18<Absolute0>and being a professor doesnt seem all that great
13:19<Absolute0>HoopyCat: well it was 41 this morning :)
13:19<HoopyCat>Absolute0: what field?
13:19<Absolute0>computer science, functional languages or computational theory
13:20<HoopyCat>Absolute0: if field not electrical engineering, snide comment about being a useless field; if field is electrical engineering, proclaim that being a professor would be awesome.
13:20<Absolute0>maybe a blog can attract some more traffic?
13:20<Absolute0>like joel spolsky
13:20<mbreslin>in cs the big areas now are quantum and cloud
13:20<mbreslin>in that order
13:20<Absolute0>what the hell can you do with quantum?
13:21<Absolute0>seems like scienc fiction
13:21<mbreslin>Absolute0: that's why it's sort of exciting imho, nobody knows
13:21<pharaun>Absolute0: cloud == tossing shit out into the cloud and not giving a damn
13:21<Absolute0>my theory professor wrote a quantum book
13:21<HoopyCat>Absolute0: get some serious research money with no specific expectations for results
13:22<Absolute0>this natural 4000 keyboard is causing more pain than good
13:22<Perihelion> <-- Success.
13:22<Absolute0>keys are stiff as hell
13:22<Absolute0>my 3 time trying it
13:22<pharaun>hehe then you wouldn't like a model M :-p
13:22-!-artista-frustrado [] has joined #linode
13:23<Absolute0>what do you do at night?
13:23<Absolute0>or morning
13:23<Absolute0>when people are sleeping
13:23-!-Kos [~wicked@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
13:23<pharaun>fuck em :)
13:23<mbreslin>who cares
13:23<mbreslin>Absolute0: pharaun is deaf ;p
13:23<Absolute0>and the musty smell from all the old men that used it while masturbating?
13:24<pharaun>its so tough that you could probably put it in industrial acid to scour it and it will come back out intact
13:24-!-orieg [] has joined #linode
13:24<pharaun>and ready to go :-p
13:24-!-Eagle [~Eagle@] has joined #linode
13:24<HoopyCat>those IR keyboards they have in hotels these days scare the bejeesus out of me
13:24<Absolute0>i got one on ebay for 10 bucks once
13:24<mbreslin>i used natural for a long time but got tired of ergo here no ergo there, switching between sucks
13:25<pharaun>heh yeah
13:25-!-Eagle [~Eagle@] has quit []
13:25<pharaun>I just use my kinesis freestyle at home and at work
13:25<pharaun>i don't really touch anyone else keyboard
13:26<mbreslin>at work we have pods that do specific tasks, you load a vm on them with the current toolchain
13:26-!-Eagle1 [~Eagle1@] has joined #linode
13:26<Absolute0>how come you guys doing use freenode?
13:26<Absolute0>Its annoying to have to connect to oftc just for linode
13:26<Absolute0>when everything else is on freenode
13:26<mbreslin>Absolute0: because oftc has mwalling, he's worth the price of admission
13:26<pharaun>outta to page the admins of oftc ;-p
13:27<Absolute0>its an irc server and it works...
13:27<@caker>Absolute0: sounds like you need a better irc client if connecting to a network is annoying
13:27<pharaun>Absolute0: its annoying to *have* to connect to freenode :-3
13:27<HoopyCat>also, freenode never returned linode's phone calls
13:27<pharaun>Absolute0: i have a bouncer and 3 network on it :-p its not a issue really
13:27<linbot>New news from forums: One 1024 vs two 512 in Sales Questions and Answers <>
13:28<pharaun>I use irssi, and i don't even notice switching between servers
13:28<mbreslin>caker: you want me to type ANOTHER /connect
13:28<rlankfo>pharaun: same
13:28<mbreslin>caker: so arrogant
13:28<mbreslin>irssi doesn't have servers
13:28<mbreslin>it has windows
13:28<mbreslin>they all look the same to me
13:28<pharaun>Absolute0: you know that you can hardcode the server & channels into irssi right? thus you can basically give it a list of servers & channels to connect to, or just use a nice bouncer which will take care of all of that for you
13:28-!-Ciovala [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
13:29<HoopyCat>the second network's a pain. when you get up to... uhh, 5 networks?, you just sigh and add another
13:29<Absolute0>pharaun: i am aware but for some reason my oftc channels don't autojoin
13:29<mbreslin>you should be using the round-robins anyway, 1 server per network
13:29<mbreslin>easy peasy
13:29<Absolute0>i even added wait 2000
13:29<Absolute0>but that didnt help
13:29<pharaun>mbreslin: yeah exactly, that's how i set it up on my bouncer, and i just connect to my bouncer and it brings up all of the channels, easy peasy!
13:30<mbreslin>Absolute0: in fact oftc is much better due to the auto verify with ssl keys
13:30<mbreslin>Absolute0: no auto_send_cmd crap
13:30<pharaun>need to finish moving to the certfp stuff for oftc
13:30<mwalling>Absolute0: then you did it wrong
13:30<Absolute0>let me restart irssi and see if i fixed it
13:30<Absolute0>[13:28] oftc: autosendcmd: wait 2000
13:30<HoopyCat>"let me restart irssi"... that's the best "i'm leaving now because this is awkward" i've heard in awhile :-)
13:30<pharaun>Absolute0: seriously really its pretty easy to just add in new server/channels and boom done, it just works
13:30<Absolute0>[13:30] #linode oftc autojoin
13:30<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
13:30-!-gmcharlt [~gmcharlt@] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
13:31<mwalling>Absolute0: i autojoin all of my channels on all of my networks, and i have a lot of both.
13:31<pharaun>i use a bouncer, but same effect, it all comes up at the same time, as soon as i connect
13:31<malex>caker: is the 2.6.35 paravirt fixed in regard to the hardware clock sync?
13:31-!-Absolute0 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:32<@caker>malex: paravirt doesn't sync to the dom0's hw clock, but if you mean if the time accounting bugs were fix - yes
13:33<Peng>Ah...I wanted to ask caker something dumb, but I forgot what. :(
13:33<linbot>New news from forums: Ubuntu 10.04 - SQL PHP5 NginX - Error in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
13:34<malex>caker: Thanks.
13:34-!-Absolute0 [] has joined #linode
13:34<mbreslin>what are you python-webapp people using to deploy
13:34<Absolute0>yay it works now
13:34<mwalling>like capistrano
13:34<Absolute0>my server wasn't set up to autoconnect
13:34<mwalling>but python and doesnt suck
13:34<mwalling>Absolute0: ah, right, and thats OFTC's fault
13:34<mbreslin>i use fabric because it's python
13:34*mwalling grumbles
13:35<Perihelion>It's actually your fault, mwalling.
13:35<Perihelion>You are the reason we can't have nice things.
13:35<mwalling>mbreslin: i use puppet to handle everything below the app layer (http, cache, db, etc) (this might be switching to chef), and fabric for app and above
13:35*Absolute0 throws out the natural 4000
13:36<mbreslin>mwalling: do you use something to freeze the versions of everything? does puppet do that?
13:36<mwalling>uh, i can define a version for stuff in puppet, but i use latest
13:36<mwalling>as for app level, i use `pip freeze` to generate a requirements.txt
13:37<pharaun>oh nice! just looked up fabric
13:37<mbreslin>pharaun: it's awesome
13:37-!-Eagle1 [~Eagle1@] has quit [Quit: Eagle1]
13:37<pharaun>I might have to try playing with that actually
13:38<mbreslin>mwalling: what about version control -> deployment, right now i'm just using fabric to git pull into my app directory, something seems kind of weird about this but it works
13:38<mwalling>mbreslin: commit, push. hudson pulls, tests, tags. fabric deploys based on tag
13:38<pharaun>mbreslin: been using net::ssh in ruby, but fabric looks like it might be nicer
13:39<mbreslin>mwalling: thanks i'll look into hudson
13:40<mbreslin>i use frabric to run the django test suite
13:40<mwalling>(hudson's tests include copying the production data down and running south migrations on it to verfiy i dont break anything, running my unit tests, and eventually some selenium tests)
13:40<mbreslin>then git pull
13:40<pharaun>isn't hudson mostly for java ?
13:40<mwalling>pharaun: lies
13:40*NiftyLettuce In the words of Super Mario "let's a go!"
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13:41<mwalling>pharaun: hudson is written in java, hudson includes a maven build helper and an ant build helper, but i use hudson at work for java, c#, vb, python, and abuse of cron
13:41<pharaun>would be nice to have some sort of CI for some of my work/testing
13:41<mwalling>SpaceHobo: until you've used hudson to monitor the supply levels of your xerox machines, it isnt as bad as me
13:42<mbreslin>mwalling: i work in an all java shop and we're high tech we manually run most junit things
13:42-!-linville [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:42<pharaun>mbreslin: sounds like my workplace also
13:42<mwalling>SpaceHobo: build failure notifications use email-ext to send mail right to the xerox helpdesk here, because they were ignoring us for a while
13:42<pharaun>mbreslin: but they are now forcing rational on us :-p
13:42<pharaun>mwalling: +1 for the email -> xerox
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13:43<mwalling>you gotta do what you gotta do
13:43<mbreslin>my hope is to some day work for a company where my project is important enough to justify nagios texting me issues
13:44<mbreslin>as it stands now after hours i don't want to know anything work related
13:44<Nivex>mbreslin: careful what you wish for
13:45<mbreslin>hell i only even answer my work phone after hours if i'm waiting for something like vacation approval
13:45<linbot>New news from forums: phpmyadmin help in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
13:47<mbreslin>i just wish someone could come in and explain how real teams/projects in industry work to my chain of command
13:47<pharaun>mbreslin: don't
13:47<pharaun>mbreslin: if they explained it to your chain of command they probably will butcher it up and make your life even more of a hell
13:48<mbreslin>so many insane things going on, there are many people who are "specialized" in my company but that really only means whatever it is they do can't be done if they are at lunch or on vacation
13:48<mbreslin>simple fucking tasks have to wait
13:48<pharaun>I've ran into that before it sucks
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13:51-!-linville [] has joined #linode
13:51<mbreslin>i don't need to be a dba to get this morning's db dump to play with
13:52<pharaun>script it ;-p
13:52<mbreslin>but george w. dba took an early lunch
13:52-!-graq [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
13:52<mbreslin>there is a simple script for it, written by dubya
13:53<mbreslin>he is the only person who can run it
13:53-!-Jere [] has left #linode []
13:54<mbreslin>it's what happens when you let people who make tomato paste be in charge of software teams
13:54<mbreslin>swaj: i saw that yeah
13:57<pharaun>swaj: amen
13:57-!-cereal [] has joined #linode
13:59<pharaun>wow i've spent more time cleaning the html than working on the documentation *sigh*
13:59<pharaun>yay for software that butchers everything it touches
14:00<dominikh>pharaun: shouldn't you prefer anything over writing documentation? ;)
14:00<pharaun>dominikh: heh, well i like doing dev docs, because i see there is a lack of good dev docs so i *try* to be fair and write decent dev docs if i can
14:00<pharaun>every little bit that i help to make the world a little better place, the better
14:01<dominikh>actually my current git branch is called "improve-documentation" :o
14:02<mbreslin>you don't need docs just name your variables stuff like THIS_SHOULD_HOLD_AT_MOST_5_END_LEVEL_OBJECTS
14:02<mbreslin>people will figure it out
14:03<dominikh>_OF_TYPE_XYZ if using a dynamic language
14:03<pharaun>mbreslin: i'm working on configuration documentation and "API usage" documentation
14:03<@jed>systems hungarian would work better
14:03<pharaun>xyz_should_hold_at_most_five_objects is better
14:04<@jed>but not hungarian!
14:04<mbreslin>hn is funnier
14:06<@jed>when you debug iPhone apps apple has methods named just for you to read in a backtrace
14:06<straterra>But..then you have to learn objective c
14:06<mbreslin>define just for you
14:06<straterra>Objective C is worse than Java for my brain
14:06<@jed>I wish I had better examples, but I remember thinking it was really useful
14:07<@jed>because it was in a method introduced by something coming back from the network, and near the top of the stacktrace was a method named just to tell me it was coming from CFNetwork
14:07<straterra>Do you write objective c, jed?
14:07<@jed>I learned it to write Linode's iPhone app, yes
14:08<straterra>Did you find it..confusing?
14:08<@jed>spoken like someone who's never done a full project in it :>
14:08<@jed>at first, it has a curve
14:08<pharaun>[init straterra]
14:08<straterra>I've never done a full project in it, correct
14:08<@jed>get past the syntax and it's fairly minimal, honestly
14:08<straterra>I started one..and threw it
14:08<@caker>jed: that's pretty much straterra's MO in general
14:08-!-id_ [] has joined #linode
14:08<@caker>"this sucks, that sucks, waaaa"
14:08<straterra>I've read that a lot of people write iOS apps in C++ and only use objective c for the frontend
14:09<@jed>2.0 helps with the "omg brackets", because [foo property] becomes
14:09<straterra>caker: Not true :/
14:09<@jed>which is really handy six levels deep
14:09<pharaun>jed: nice, thats better
14:09<mbreslin>jed: where does cocoa fit in? or is that just for macs?
14:09<mbreslin>i know nothing of apple dev
14:09<straterra>I didn't say it sucked..Just discussing how its different
14:09<pharaun>jed: does it turn into a lisp like but with just ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]? ;-p
14:09<@jed>cocoa touch is the portable version, which is basically cocoa minus the desktop bits
14:09<@jed>UIKit replaces AppKit on iOS
14:10<@jed>you can target any of the levels - you can target cocoa touch or the APIs blow it, core foundation is still there
14:10<@jed>it is, in theory, possible to write about 50 lines of objective-C and do the rest of your app in standards-compliant C
14:10<straterra>jed: Did you pick up a book on iOS programming?
14:10<@jed>and approve for the app store
14:10-!-cereal [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:10<@jed>yes, and it was useless
14:11<@jed>apple's documentation is so much better
14:11<mbreslin>my wife said i should write something for android
14:11<straterra>Fair enough
14:11<mbreslin>i said yeah that's what i want to do is come home from work and write MORE java
14:11<@jed>pharaun: not as bad as you'd think
14:11<straterra>I will love the day that both iOS and Android support Qt..then I can write it once and be done
14:11<Solver>otoh it could make you $$$ :)
14:11<pharaun>jed: oh? i suppose so i was just thinking that you would end up with a ton of []
14:11<@jed>I mean, it's really the same thing, honestly - in C and pals you're nesting functions with (), a la do_something(get_something(something_else()))
14:11<straterra>jed: It's like..$100 a year or something to get access to the development crap, right?
14:12<pharaun>jed: ah true, that wouldn't be too bad in hindsight :)
14:12<@jed>objective C just becomes [do_something [get_something [something_else]]]
14:12<Solver>wow would it be worth their time to process $100/year/developer
14:12<@jed>it's $99
14:12-!-amarc [] has joined #linode
14:12<straterra>Per year
14:12<pharaun>jed: hows it as a language overall? I think gcc got a obj-c compiler included
14:12-!-ktabic [] has quit [Quit: I'm a professionally trainined computer scientist. That is to say, I am poorly educated]
14:13<@jed>what threw me at first was this: [doSomethingWith:arg1 and:arg2 andAlso:arg3]
14:13<@jed>the method's plumbing is actually doSomethingWith_and_andAlso, but you spell it like that
14:13<straterra>Done any OpenGL?
14:13<@jed>you get used to it, and it's more elegant for the naming
14:13<pharaun>does it like support namespace/etc ?
14:14<mbreslin>#INCLUDE APPLE
14:14<@jed>pharaun: first question: I didn't mind it that much, as it's seriously batteries-included and the flows make sense. it's basically desktop MVC. gcc does have Obj-C, yes, but Obj-C outside of Cocoa is an entirely different experience ... you're working in basically NextStep
14:14-!-id_ [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
14:14<@jed>second question: no, namespaces aren't there, as you're working in a superset of pure C
14:14<straterra>Boost would be badass
14:14<@jed>it's a more elegant solution to object-oriented C than C++ is, if you ask me
14:15<pharaun>jed: aha gotcha, thanks :) I've been on and off over the year curious about obj-c as vs to C++ done some minimal dev in c++ and it can be clunky
14:15<@jed>you can, without breaking a swet, write a pure C function and call it from an objective-C interface
14:15<@jed>there's a few in our app
14:15<@jed>I forget what for, but I remember writing one
14:15<pharaun>hah i was about to ask about how the c -> obj c binding worked
14:16<mbreslin>i worked through k&r in 1991
14:16<@jed>objective C is really just syntactic sugar to pure C stuff
14:16<mbreslin>wonder how i'd do in objc
14:16<@jed>they can interop very, very easily
14:16<straterra>jed: port boost to objective c
14:16<@jed>when you make an objective-C object, you end up with a C struct and messages to that object are passed in a predictable fashion
14:17<@jed>it's all C underneath, mang
14:17-!-malex [] has left #linode []
14:17<@jed>you can, with little effort, reflect on the object from C and ask it what it's called and such, too
14:17<mbreslin>jed: did you have to lowest-common-denominator for people with old iphones
14:17<@jed>if you're comfortable in C obj-C will come very easily to you
14:17<pharaun>jed: so its just nicer syntax sugar than like GObject sort of setup but similiar idea ?
14:17<mbreslin>or does the framework take care of that
14:17-!-metaperl [] has joined #linode
14:18<@jed>mbreslin: I believe that question is just over the hairy edge of my NDA, so I'll just answer that it was easier than you're thinking
14:18<straterra>I'd like to write some Android/iOS idea what to even write
14:18<pharaun>jed: i'm somewhat comfortable with C, but i find myself sometime missing objects from time to time
14:18<pharaun>jed: what you mean by NDA, aka the apple developer NDA ?
14:18<straterra>I'll write a "dunk straterra" app for caker
14:18<mbreslin>straterra: uh, start with fart
14:18<@jed>pharaun: with really, really optimized message passing which is still dynamic. the runtime is still dynamic, so it's not method calls to a struct and such
14:19<@jed>you can invent messages at runtime, "freeze" them and transport an NSInvocation (a message with full arguments) elsewhere, and so on
14:19<mbreslin>everyone get close i want to take a picture
14:19<mbreslin>press button
14:19<mbreslin>*fart sounds*
14:19<pharaun>jed: yeah i've heard debates over the year over the message passing, got used to the idea of message passing from ruby, oh yes that reminds me, i wonder does obj c got stuff like "missing function" like ruby in which if you invoke a function and its not there, you can use that function to figure out what to do ?
14:19<pharaun>jed: sweet, hah you just answered my question sort of :-p
14:20<mbreslin>straterra: learn2jailbreak
14:20<dominikh>pharaun: iirc yes, obj c should have that
14:20<pharaun>dominikh: sweet
14:20<@jed>yeah, you can even send messages to nil and nothing will break
14:20<@jed>it's not a null dereference vulnerability
14:20<@jed>you can still dereference null and make things implode, but it's difficult to do with messages
14:21<@jed>messages to nil just fall into the bitbucket, which can be handy in a lot of cases and slightly annoying in others
14:21<straterra>jed: Taken the latest OSX update yet?
14:21<dominikh>really, the only thing I didn't like about Obj C were the ridiculously long method names, and the way it handles parameters, effectively creating just even longer method names
14:21<@jed>straterra: waiting to reboot
14:21<straterra>hah, I'm doing it right now :x
14:21<straterra>It's writing files..and about to explode
14:21<pharaun>dominikh: haha i *noticed* i've seen code dumps from some friends and their method names got a tad silly long
14:22<@jed>there's guidelines, similar to PEP 8 for Python
14:22<@jed>I had to break the habit of trying to format my code to 80 characters, though ... lines are a touch long
14:22<dominikh>yeah, problem is if those guidelines ask for really long method names ;)
14:22<Boohemian>i'm in so much damn pain
14:22<pharaun>jed: hah that would be a hard habit, i like my 80col, i can fit just tad over 3 on my 30"
14:23<Boohemian>i just broke up with my girlfriend and still can't walk
14:23<Boohemian>heh, sucks trying to get around when you can't use one leg
14:23<dominikh>she kicked your balls?
14:23<straterra>Boohemian: Nothing good ol rum can't fix
14:23<@jed>here's an actual line from the iPhone app, related to stats collection on one screen:
14:23<@jed>- (void)seedStatsRequests:(NSUInteger)req batches:(NSUInteger)bat chunks:(NSUInteger)ch dataIn:(NSUInteger)bytesIn dataOut:(NSUInteger)bytesOut;
14:23<mbreslin>straterra: rum was his girlfriend
14:23<@jed>if you're familiar with C, you'll recognize that it's a prototype
14:23<JshWright>Boohemian: on the bright side... no more sneaking around all-girl dorms
14:23<straterra>jed: thats pretty simple
14:23<dominikh>and that's when I'd definitely drop Obj C and got an Android instead :P
14:24<@jed>straterra: yeah, it's just verbose
14:24-!-Steve^ [] has joined #linode
14:24<pharaun>jed: yow, that's verbose
14:24<Boohemian>JshWright: well, she actually moved in with me, so no reason to go to wellesley anymore
14:24<straterra><3 verbosity
14:24<straterra>It's lack of verbosity that makes my head spin
14:24<Boohemian>straterra: i just took about 8mg of dilaudid, so rum isn't advised
14:24<mbreslin><3 virtuosity
14:24<pharaun>I don't mind some verbosity but sometime just... *YOW*
14:24<straterra>RUM IS ALWAYS ADVISED
14:24<dominikh>- (void)pleaseSystemIWouldReallyLikeToExitThisApplicationNowPrettyPlease() :>
14:24<@jed>well I mean, in C, it'd be: void seedStats(NSUInteger requests, NSUInteger batches, NSUInteger chunks, NSUInteger bytesIn, NSUInteger bytesOut)
14:24<@jed>it's not *that* much longer
14:24<straterra>and shnapps
14:25<dominikh>jed: well, but in C, the argument names aren't part of the method call
14:25<@jed>makes reading code a breeze, though
14:25<pharaun>jed: meaning? as in like exception/error dumps
14:25<@jed>at the point of invocation you know what's going on, you don't have to tab over to the header
14:25<JshWright>8mg of dilaudid? that's a no-foolin'-around dose..
14:25<dominikh>and writing it hard as chkdsk
14:26<straterra>I should write a competing Linode app..with farts
14:26<@jed>C: do_something(4), objC: doSomethingWithSillyCounter:4
14:26<@jed>the purpose of the argument is clear at invocation, instead of having to check documentation or the header
14:26<Boohemian>JshWright: yeah, i'm taking 4-8mg of dilaudid every 3 hours and wearing a fentanyl patch
14:26<JshWright>holy crap... I would be terrified of dependency at those dosages
14:27<mbreslin>jed: how many loc is a fart app
14:27<straterra>jed: Safe to reboot..machine came back up
14:27<mbreslin>that's all i need to know
14:27<@jed>mbreslin: you could probably pull it off in under 200
14:27<mbreslin>boo boilerplate :<
14:27<straterra>5 lines in VB .Net, yo
14:27<@jed>well that's including manifest, etc
14:27<dominikh>1 line in perl
14:28<mbreslin>dominikh: that's not fair everything is 1 line in perl
14:28<dominikh>mbreslin: that's the joke!
14:28<mbreslin>does it count if i get the joke after you explain it
14:28<Boohemian>JshWright: yeah, well here's to hope! i had surgery on the 4th and almost died. i won't be able to walk for 6 weeks. it really sucks. and now i have to hire someone to take care of me.
14:28<straterra>$|=1; <3
14:28<Boohemian>there are some REALLY weird craigslist ads
14:29-!-Absolute0 [] has joined #linode
14:29<mbreslin>Boohemian: search for "caretaker who periodically gives happy endings"
14:29<Boohemian>mbreslin: yes, that's what i've been finding
14:29<straterra>What's the objective c version of $|=1; ?
14:30<@jed>is that perl?
14:30-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
14:30-!-Absolute0 [] has quit []
14:30<straterra>The most beautiful of all languages
14:30<@jed>should have known, I read it '$ or-equals 1'
14:30<Boohemian>are therea ny good books/blogs to read about starting a startup website? i have soem ideas i want to work on over winter break. i think i'll use pylons
14:31<@jed>but it's actually 'flush stdout after every print', right?
14:31-!-metaperl1 [] has joined #linode
14:31<straterra>That small, beautiful line turns off output buffering
14:31<@jed>same as C in objective-C
14:31<@jed>that's a standard library/POSIX thing, really
14:31<straterra>That's always the first line of code in every Perl app I write..ever since I spent hours debugging the output of a script and that fixed it
14:31-!-perandre [] has joined #linode
14:32-!-perandre [] has quit []
14:32<mbreslin>i should use flush more in python but i never remember unless i get some unexpected output
14:32<mbreslin>same in java for that matter
14:33<@pparadis>speaking of perl and buffering/flushing, sockets are autoflush by default now, which only took just about forever.
14:33<pharaun>Yeah same here, i tend to not flush until i run into problem, then I'll flush. Doesn't closing the output stream flush stuff anyway?
14:34-!-metaperl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:34<mbreslin>there is a flag you use to do unbuffered
14:35<mbreslin>in python
14:35<mbreslin>in java you call a flush method
14:35<@pparadis>if you mean closing the handle, sure, but that isn't typically very useful with a socket. most folks turned on autoflush all the time, that is if they knew to :)
14:35<@pparadis>otherwise, lots of frustration with bidirectional comms could ensue.
14:36<mbreslin>obviously this is opinion and just making conversation but i find perl to be the most ugly thing ever
14:37<mbreslin>perl5 seems a bit better
14:37<pharaun>pparadis: yeah that's what i mean, and aha socket, no wonder, haven't done a ton of socket work, most of my I/O is mainly file processing or db processing
14:37<@pparadis>mbreslin: itym perl6?
14:37<mbreslin>yeah perl6
14:38<pharaun>I'm mainly curious about the regex changes for perl6 TBH
14:38<straterra>I haven't been brave enough to touch perl6 yet
14:38<mbreslin>there is some reason i said this i had to look at something perl i'll pb it if i can remember what it was OH i was going to change something in the irssi /dns script
14:39<mbreslin>maybe it was just written ugly but i thought it was the ugliest crap i've ever seen
14:39<pharaun>mbreslin: you can write some pretty readable perl, but its going to have the sigil and all of that
14:40<mbreslin>maybe i'm just stupid but that seems practically unreadable to me
14:40<pharaun>mbreslin: that's not bad really
14:40<straterra>That looks pretty clean
14:40<@pparadis>mbreslin: there is good and bad code all over the place in any language you can name.
14:40<mbreslin>maybe it's the language
14:40<pharaun>mbreslin: you want bad, go play with JAPH stuff :-p
14:41<mbreslin>we have strict guidelines for java at work and at home i only write python
14:41<mbreslin>been that way for a few years so maybe it's just new/different to me
14:42<@pparadis>any time you have an environment that enforces strict guidelines for syntax, formatting, etc, the code is going to be more readable to you.
14:43<@pparadis>one of the main mottos of perl is "there's more than one way to do it," but you're certainly free to adopt conventions in any organization to work toward standards in your codebase.
14:43<mbreslin>i've never opened something and cringed and closed it in a few seconds before
14:43-!-Gika [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:43<@pparadis>i've had that happen to me with java, c, c++, various dialects of basic, python, ruby, etc.
14:43<@pparadis>oh, and perl.
14:44<mbreslin>you win perl is lovely
14:44<pharaun>it happens all the time to me
14:44<pharaun>i open my work java code and i start to weep
14:44<@pparadis>oh no, it's frequently not lovely, but that's my point. lots of stuff can be ugly :)
14:45<pharaun>i've seen my work manage to butcher even python
14:46<mbreslin>there are 2 camps at my work old and me
14:46<Nivex>I bet pharaun is looking for other work.
14:46<mbreslin>the old camp come from different flavors of unix and want to do everything in perl/bash
14:47<mbreslin>my attempts to get python into my job have been crushed
14:47<mbreslin>time and time again
14:48<@pparadis>if there's already a large base of folks who have years of experience getting things done with perl, what's the point of trying to forcibly introduce something else? i'd say the same thing if the roles were reversed, btw.
14:49<Boohemian>anyone here agree that it is better to learn python and use pylons/django over learning php web based apps. i've been told that the former is better because the php market is saturated and you will be stuck working with *very* bad code.
14:49<mbreslin>pparadis: because i can actually understand what's going on in a pythong script to do task a
14:49<mbreslin>and the bash equiv is a nightmare
14:49<@pparadis>that bit about the PHP market being saturated with bad code is true, something i've seen firsthand.
14:49-!-Dale [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
14:50<mbreslin>just simple things in bash like dealing with different levels of env vars
14:51<mbreslin>why have the headache when there is a simple language with few keywords you can learn in an afternoon
14:51<@pparadis>mbreslin: but they can understand what they're doing with perl and bash... seems like it would be a good idea for you to learn perl.
14:51<straterra>Because Python isn't easy to everyone
14:51<mbreslin>produces mostly clean readable code
14:51<@pparadis>that's your opinion, and that's also largely due to the programmer and what you've been exposed to.
14:51<straterra>Especially when you like C syntax languages..python can be a pain
14:51<@pparadis>straterra: exactly
14:51<pharaun>Nivex: i guess :-p some days its not bad when i get to work on my own code base but when i have to clean up some of the older mess, it makes me weep
14:52*avenj hugs his perl
14:52<straterra>mbreslin: Your problem reading perl? I have the EXACT same issue reading python
14:52<mbreslin>ITS ALL BLOCKS?
14:52<straterra>I look at a simple python app and I can't follow the program all
14:53<@pparadis>mbreslin: you seem to be having trouble understanding that people are wired differently... what works for some won't for others.
14:53<pharaun>I'm used to C syntax language so python is a pain to me, I'm also slowly learning haskell, its interesting but its syntax is.... off
14:53<avenj>which is why there are more than three programming languages
14:53<@pparadis>that ^
14:53<mbreslin>pharaun: Are you joking?
14:53<mbreslin>you say you use ruby?
14:53<mbreslin>you think ruby is c like?
14:54<pharaun>mbreslin: heh, yeah i use ruby, but i also use perl, c, etc...
14:54<pharaun>mbreslin: and once or twice I've written some simple python code, etc...
14:54<pharaun>mbreslin: I'm slowly getting used to python/other syntax but I still have a district tending to keep on using the parens and brackets
14:55<mwalling>are we still talking about deploying python projects?
14:55<@pparadis>nah, it's a holy war now.
14:55<pharaun>mwalling: nah, just language discussion
14:55<mwalling>JAVA IS THE FUTURE!
14:55<pharaun>some people think python is awful, some thinks perl is awful, etc... etc
14:55<mbreslin>mwalling: we're talking about people who choose bash over python ;p
14:55<pharaun>mbreslin: i use bash from time to time
14:55<pharaun>it *works* if you know bash
14:56<mbreslin>i do know bash, cd ls ...
14:56<mbreslin>do ... done
14:56<pharaun>mbreslin: i don't really write much bash scripts, bash one-liners is more like it ;-p
14:56<Getty>ALL YOUR FUTURE BELONGS TO US!!!! Copyright Apple
14:57<pharaun>massive piped/loops/etc w/ sed/awk/grep/etc all stringed together :-p
14:57<avenj>bash is amazing.. until you start running into heavier stuff and find yourself calling sed & awk approximately 12398129 times, at which point overhead is a kick in the balls
14:57<Getty>avenj: yeah, bash killed 4 years of my life
14:57<avenj>and then you use perl, of course.
14:57*avenj hides
14:57<pharaun>avenj: haha, but it does do the trick for a while, after some point just better to use perl/<insert language>
14:58<Getty>i'm too old for this
14:58<pharaun>you're too old for everything!
14:58<Boohemian>would you recommend i start with learning python or perl, today? i want to focus on web based stuff - seems python is better supported (e.g. pylons or django)
14:58<Getty>Perl Perl Perl ;)
14:58<Getty>just cause I do it
14:58<mwalling>what about catalyst?
14:58<Getty>Perl and Python are equal valueable, its just a matter of taste
14:58-!-vraa [] has joined #linode
14:58<Getty>mwalling: Catalyst owns
14:58<@pparadis>catalyst is neat.
14:59<pharaun>Boohemian: there's catalyst, moose, and some other stuff for perl
14:59<pharaun>and its still used quite a bit
14:59<Getty>POE! POE!
14:59<mbreslin>pparadis: thinking perl is easy to read, thinking that it doesn't take FAR more effort than most other languages to write readable/maintainable perl programs is being stubborn
14:59<Getty>POE, Moose an Catalyst
14:59<@pparadis>mbreslin: nice try at trolling there, sorry, all full up here.
14:59<pharaun>Getty: ah right knew i was forgetting one of em ;-p
14:59<Getty>pharaun: yeah, POE is important
14:59*avenj hugs POE
14:59<pharaun>mbreslin: not really
14:59<pharaun>mbreslin: its mostly your usage style, etc... you can write awful python programs
15:00<Getty>pharaun: showing the node.js-fanboys that there is no real need for a javascript engine todo serverside event based programming ;)
15:00<avenj>pparadis: c'mon, it could be fun
15:00<mwalling>pharaun: s/python/*/
15:00<pharaun>mbreslin: i(): a = 1 b=2, etc...
15:00<Getty>with perl you could be able to force the programmer to code as clean as you want cause you can much deeper into the code processing process ;)
15:00<pharaun>mwalling: yeah i know but mbreslin is from the python camp so was just trying to bring the point home for him
15:00<mbreslin>pparadis: simply liking a language or being used to a language doesn't make its warts become diamonds, this is the last i'll say about it
15:01<Boohemian>there is a perl user group in boston, which could be helpful
15:01<@pparadis>mbreslin: you must have missed most of my replies in scrollback, because you just agreed with me. thanks!
15:01<pharaun>mbreslin: issue is you are on subjective ground, the language look/syntax/etc is highly subjective, you can write very *clear* and very *messy* code in *any* language
15:01<Boohemian>is learning perl as the first language very difficult?
15:01<pharaun>Getty: hahaha, yeah node.js, hah
15:01<mwalling>or erlang
15:01<Getty>pharaun: but in perl i could integrate a tidy checker into the perl startup and avoid that the code runs without being totally clean
15:01<pharaun>learn haskell first ;-p
15:01<Getty>pharaun: try this with other languages ;)
15:02<Getty>(so no splitted up process, as part of the regular application startup)
15:02<pharaun>Getty: i thought that perl5 was too hard for most stuff to parse other than the perl interpreter ?
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15:02<Getty>pharaun: but if you kick into the hooks of the perl interpreter, you can do very crazy shit
15:03<pharaun>Getty: oh right the hooks, haven't done any work there
15:03<straterra>Is that Perl hard to read?
15:03<Getty>see Devel::Declare magic as the biggest reference example ;)
15:03<Getty>straterra: very very old perl style
15:03<pharaun>straterra: <3 that's readable perl
15:03<Getty>thats classic perl, bad
15:03<straterra>That'd how I write all of my perl..and C
15:03<pharaun>Getty: but its *still* readable which was the point
15:03<Getty>its like how they used to code perl, i wouldnt do it that way anymore
15:04<mbreslin>straterra: the question i have is what is the effort required to keep large perl programs that readable, and if the effort is worth the use of a language you know, how much time is lost just trying to keep it pretty?
15:04<Getty>pharaun: yeah, but you cant make promotion with bad code, even if its readable
15:04<Getty>pharaun: it sets down perl again to a "script language"
15:04<Getty>this is the reference snippet you have to show:
15:04<straterra>mbreslin: No extra effort...thats how I write Perl o.O
15:04<Getty>it uses POE + Moose + MooseX::POE + Devel::Declare
15:05<straterra>I didn't go back through and tidy it
15:05<mbreslin>straterra: if it's so easy why doesn't everyone write readable perl? why is perl that looks like that the exception and not the rule?
15:05<straterra>I unno
15:05<Getty>mbreslin: you are looking at wrong places
15:05<mbreslin>me either
15:05<Getty>mbreslin: CPAN == perl, and there is no such unreadable code on CPAN
15:05<avenj>most of the perl I look at is pretty readable
15:05<pharaun>mbreslin: its people effort/taste/etc
15:05<Getty>mbreslin: you are taking "random snippets from the net" as reference, but they all are ... bad
15:05<mwalling>and copy and paste
15:05<straterra>I'm quite fond of that script, actually :x
15:05<Teckie>i'm building the internet in minecraft
15:05<pharaun>mbreslin: some people prefer to write clear code from the start, some people don't give a *fuck*
15:05<Getty>again: CPAN has no unreadable code
15:05<@pparadis>mbreslin: are you aware that we use a lot of perl and python at linode, among other stuff? in other words, we've got a _lot_ of code floating around, and obviously the company isn't falling over. you just can't get around the fact that *you* seem to have the problem here, and that every language can be coded badly.
15:06<Getty>the discussion is pointless
15:06<mwalling>perl seems to be one of the most clipboarded languages
15:06<Getty>mwalling: no
15:06<Teckie>clipboard seems to be one of the most perled languages
15:06<Getty>mwalling: actually that is the most wrong sentence ever
15:06<Getty>mwalling: cause you dont have more packages in any other language
15:06<straterra>jed: Look at the chaos we caused
15:06<Getty>mwalling: you are taking bad examples from the net as reference for the language
15:06<straterra>Smells like another days work well done
15:06<mwalling>Getty: but not the language, the morons who use the language
15:07<mwalling>Getty: not the users who know what they're doing
15:07<straterra>Getty: To be fair..that happens a lot with Java too
15:07<Getty>mwalling: no, some morons
15:07<pharaun>straterra: +1
15:07<straterra>Java gets a bad rep because of idiot programmers
15:07<Getty>straterra: wait
15:07<pharaun>i see that a ton with some of the java stuff
15:07<Getty>straterra: but java has no CPAN
15:07<pharaun>ton and ton of copy/paste
15:07<Teckie>straterra java crashes, end of
15:07<Getty>straterra: there is no reference for "good java code"
15:07<pharaun>Getty: but java comes with a large "std library"
15:07<mwalling>Getty: wait, so now you're trolling java?
15:07<Getty>who cares? the people discuss over this std library since it exist
15:07<straterra>Maybe, maybe not..but I just meant that bad Java programmers give a bad name to Java too
15:07<Teckie>every java program i have ever tested has crashed at least once due to a language error
15:07<Getty>no, i just say please bring on facts
15:07<straterra>mwalling: FWIW, I don't really full on hate Java..just most Java devs :)
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15:08<Rob>oh lord, all langauges get a bad rep from idoit programs, just use whatever lanaguge is suitable for what you are doing and get over the langauge snobbary? :)
15:08<mwalling>straterra: thanks. i'd swear at you but i'd get yelled at again
15:08<Teckie>Rob +1
15:08<straterra>mwalling: swear at me in PM :P
15:08<avenj>Rob: this is great, don't ruin it
15:08<Rob>sorry i'll shh
15:08<Teckie>avenj +2
15:08<Getty>Rob: still, we could talk about the "good sides" of the languages
15:08<pharaun>mwalling: hah, well to be frank, i can *work* java but i just am not the *biggest* fan of it but i can live with it :-p its not bad in some respect
15:08<Getty>instead of comparing "good sides of language one" against "bad sides of language two"
15:08<Getty>this is all i want
15:08<avenj>so far we've determined all languages suck and developers are all idiots
15:08<straterra>I will say I like the OOP in Java a bit
15:08<@pparadis>avenj: yes
15:09<straterra>Atleast they go all the way with the OOP
15:09<Getty>straterra: cause you dont use Moose
15:09<mwalling>Getty: anacdotally, theres a lot more crap perl floating around hte nternet then good perl. (as long as you add to your query)
15:09<pharaun>Getty: get out! :-p this is not how a language holy war works ;)
15:09<Getty>straterra: cause you dont use Moose
15:09<Getty>pharaun: but we win as perl
15:09<Getty>pharaun: so the tactic is good ;)
15:09<mwalling>Getty: adnt hats what i contend is wrong with the language
15:09<Getty>mwalling: no
15:09<straterra>WTF is moose?
15:09<Getty>mwalling: again: use CPAN as reference
15:09<mwalling>fine, exclude that too
15:10<Getty>mwalling: there is the good stuff, and nothing else matters <sing>
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15:10<Getty>straterra: the OOP of Perl
15:10<mwalling>but the people i'm referring to on the stupid side of the specrum look at cpan and go "uh durrrrrrrr wuts seeing and in a pan?"
15:10<Getty>straterra: the RIGHT OOP of Perl ;)
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15:10<straterra>Getty: I didn't say Perl didn't have OOP
15:10<Getty>straterra: i didnt said this
15:10<straterra>I was just commenting on Java's OOP
15:10<mbreslin>pparadis: i don't know what to say to that, i'm a grown up, i write java as a means of supporting my family, yet i see that tons of it is broken, arrays are gimp, no lists, no constructors for interfaces, everything is an object except oh not primitive types? wtf?
15:10<Getty>straterra: i said, you like the Java OOP cause you didnt know the Perl OOP
15:10<Getty>mwalling: no, there is just a not so advanced OOP of perl
15:10<pharaun>mbreslin: welcome to shitty programmers
15:10<straterra>Never taken a look at Perl OOP, so I can't comment on it
15:11<Getty>mwalling: which is even "p.d." not OOP its just blessing of hashs
15:11<mbreslin>pparadis: you think i'm trolling but really i'm the first person to admit the flaws of the languages i use, but when i point out flaws in a language i don't suddenly i'm a troll
15:11*pharaun blesses Getty
15:11<Getty>mwalling: the point is: we have several options, other languages dont have it
15:11<Boohemian>so, is perl a good first language to learn?
15:11<straterra>Hmm..I just got an awesome visual
15:11<straterra>Transformers arguing over programming languages on Cybertron
15:11<mbreslin>Boohemian: it's ugly. but what the hell.
15:11<mbreslin>Boohemian: go nuts.
15:12<straterra>"PERL!" "PYTHON!" pew pew pew
15:12<Getty>mbreslin: again, that is crap
15:12<avenj>your MOM.
15:12<Getty>mbreslin: you never saw real perl code
15:12*avenj wins, goes to smoke
15:12<Getty>damn, this is pointless
15:12<@caker>don't you guys have jobs?
15:12<@pparadis>mbreslin: dunno how to help you, i'm a grown up, i write perl and other stuff as a means of supporting my family. $_ .= $all_my_scrollback for the rest.
15:12<pharaun>Boohemian: funny thing is perl is the first scripting/runtime language i tried, before that i was using C or java
15:12<Getty>caker: no, we use perl, we are already done
15:12<pharaun>Boohemian: but almost universally any language is going to have a learning curve, so just pick your poison :)
15:12<straterra>caker: waiting on code to compile
15:12<Getty>that is the point, i reduced most of my worktime to 20-30% since i use Perl
15:12<Marius>My job is to bother you, caker <3
15:12<mbreslin>Getty: straterra's script is perfectly readable/good looking (i don't know syntactically) perl code
15:12<Perihelion>I haz a day off.
15:13<straterra>caker: Nah..waiting on a 300 meg file to transfer to China
15:13<Getty>i have no clue what people are crying about it, i make genius results and produced more open source projects in the last 2 years then in 13 years IT before
15:13<Getty>mbreslin: but its old, perl code can even be much more readable and nice
15:13<Getty>mbreslin: that kind of code layout you will not really find on CPAN modules
15:13<straterra>I am curious..what's 'old' about it?
15:13<pharaun>Getty: find some good lengthy example/etc give it to mbreslin
15:13<pharaun>straterra: the style i guess
15:13<Getty>straterra: you dont make it with modern modules, you dont make it OOP
15:14<Getty>pharaun: i did already: this is a very clean example
15:14<straterra>Well..of course I don't use modern modules. It's on RHEL4/5 servers
15:14<straterra>Are you mad?
15:14<Getty>straterra: perlbrew ?!
15:14<Getty>straterra: local::lib ?!
15:14-!-artista-frustrado [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:14<Getty>see, you have no idea how you bring on modern stuff to your machine
15:14<Getty>i just need a shell and build utils, and i install the perl version i want with the modules i want
15:14<Getty>as user, on any system, without root
15:14<straterra>Screw that
15:15<straterra>I write my perl to fix the environment its going on
15:15<straterra>Too much of a PITA retrofitting routers in the field for anything but what comes with it
15:15<Getty>you have no clue what you talk about, but ok ;)
15:15<Getty>i will notice that and stop that here
15:15*Getty rolls medicine now
15:16<mbreslin>01/07:12:12 < Getty> caker: no, we use perl, we are already done
15:16<straterra>uhm..I have a clue as to my workload and the $time it would take to maintain our own compiled perl on the machines
15:16<mbreslin>just saw that
15:16<mbreslin>pretty funny, well played
15:16<Getty>straterra: he?
15:16<Getty>straterra: its one click to get it?!?!
15:16<Getty>straterra: thats what i say, its no work
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15:16<Getty>straterra: there is nothing to "maintain"
15:16<straterra>Yes there is
15:16<Getty>straterra: you just THINK its complex, cause you have NO CLUE ;)
15:16<Getty>no there isnt
15:16<straterra>Take this scenario
15:16<Getty>checkout perlbrew
15:16<mbreslin>Getty: i just think when you're being really expressive and getting down to business it would be hard (or at least it seems hard for a fuckton of people since they don't bother to do it) to keep a large perl project looking like that tiny example
15:17<Getty>mbreslin: trust me, huge projects run on perl
15:17<mwalling>[01-07] 15:17:10 [oftc] ! Channel #linode-languages-suck created by mwalling!
15:17<Getty>mbreslin: and its very clean code
15:17<straterra>I dont even care anymore heh
15:18<Getty>mbreslin: just checkout Moose and the complete meta layer Class::MOP offers behind it
15:18<Getty>aspect orientated without burning down your complete virtual machine ;)
15:18*mbreslin done
15:18<Getty>aspect orientated programming in java is a horror
15:18<pharaun>mwalling: +1
15:19<mbreslin>caker: i'm at my desk and all this typing has made it look like i'm actually doing something
15:19<Teckie>-cough- so what constitutes _good_ perl/java/php/c#/pascal/fortran
15:19<mbreslin>Teckie: enough.
15:20<mwalling>hey, theres nothign wrong with fortran
15:20<mbreslin>Nivex: lol.
15:20<Teckie>im going to print that out
15:20<Teckie>once i get a printer
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15:22<Teckie>what i dont understand is that half of you come in here and talk about all the shitty code thats out there, why don't you open up notepad and hammer away instead of bitching about it
15:22<sirpengi>we need someplace to vent
15:22<straterra>Teckie: Notepad?! vim!
15:22<Teckie>I MEAN VIM
15:22<TheFirst>string him up!
15:22<sirpengi>I don't like vim either, but I'm using it anyway
15:23<Teckie>i use nano with highlighting
15:23*Nivex runs
15:23<pharaun>Teckie: we now know where you are from!
15:23<pharaun>Teckie: traitor!
15:23<Teckie>pfft i was using it as a catch-all
15:23<Teckie>i should've just said text editor
15:23<pharaun>use VIM as a catch-all :3
15:23<Nivex>itym $EDITOR
15:23<Teckie>open up your _shell enviroment_ and start _text editor_ to code in _awesome language_
15:24<pharaun>Teckie: you're biased! what about those poor sods on windows :-p cmd hardly counts as shell
15:24<Teckie>that's where virtual machines come in handy
15:24<Teckie>love em
15:24<pharaun>I do my devel on a couple of VM at work, its nice
15:25<pharaun>not as nice as local devel but still not bad
15:25<Teckie>i absolutely freaking love snapshots
15:25<pharaun>No access to snapshots here sadly
15:26<pharaun>Still nice to have VM for working in
15:26<Teckie>i need some new hardware to satisfy my vm needs
15:27<Teckie>hoping to have 8 gigs of ram, big speedy drive, and a nice screen resolution before may
15:28<Teckie>my current processor doesnt even have VT :(
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15:34<mbreslin>pparadis: <3
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15:39<@pparadis>mbreslin: <3
15:44<straterra>What is <3, baby don't hurt me...don't hurt more
15:44<linbot>New news from forums: Posts with ignorant curse words in the subject in General Discussion <> || php locale setting working in cli but not in fpm in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
15:46<rlankfo>no more.....
15:47-!-orieg [] has joined #linode
15:51<mbreslin>pparadis: WHEW I THOUGHT YOU BROKE UP WITH ME
15:52<@pparadis>NO WAY DOOD <3 <3 <3
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15:57<auraka>so....thats how you get free linodes
15:57<auraka>caker: bend over
15:57<Nivex>auraka: I think you're the one who's supposed to bend over
15:58<Perihelion>there's sleeping your way to the top, then there's getting right to the point
15:58<Perihelion>frankly you can both do better
15:58<Perihelion>(brb fired)
15:58<auraka>Nivex: his name is me, he is a bottom
15:58<straterra>ruh roh
15:59<straterra>Perihelion: See the fun you miss when off the clock?
15:59<Perihelion>there's fun to be had on the clock
15:59<Perihelion>Shenanigans of the grandest sort.
15:59<straterra> everyone in the office a das keyboard?
15:59<straterra>And a desk that resonates?
16:00<Perihelion>I need to make another giant cupcake
16:00<straterra>ooohhh, cupcake
16:00<Perihelion>the last one failed because I had an unexpected day off
16:00<straterra>a coworker of mine makes his own icecream and brings it in
16:00-!-vcardoso [~vcardoso@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:00<auraka>straterra: he puts things in it to get back at you all
16:01<auraka>trust me and have a cupcake I brought in
16:01<straterra>He eats it too
16:01<auraka>the side he knows isn't tainted
16:01<auraka>enjoy the cancer
16:02-!-Kuboing1 [] has joined #linode
16:02<straterra>Will do
16:02<straterra>My grandfather did before it killed him
16:03<straterra>Yeah, see
16:03<straterra>Oh yeah..todays xkcd pertains to our discussion earlier :O
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16:18<robinetd>O.o Apparently I didn't have to cancel my account to switch datacenters. ;o Oops.
16:19-!-disinpho [] has quit [Quit: disinpho]
16:20<robinetd>Is there a list of data center addresses that I can test with mtr prior to choosing one?
16:20<robinetd>That makes sense. :) thanks.
16:21<bob2>robinetd: you don't even need to reinstall
16:22<robinetd>bob2, I tend to be quite impulsive. It's a curse. :O
16:23<robinetd>Holy crap, 81.0% packet loss to fremont.
16:23<pharaun>oh fremont lulz
16:25<robinetd>It seems I'm getting a crapload of lost packets on all of them. :o
16:25<straterra>Does your ISP suck?
16:25<straterra>Try doing an MTR
16:25<robinetd>It's good enough to play mmorpg's on.
16:25<robinetd>also that's where I'm getting the data. 72% packet loss to dallas1.
16:26<robinetd>72-74%. It's hanging in that area.
16:26<linbot>pharaun: timed out
16:26<Peng>robinetd: Some ISPs eat ICMP packets.
16:27<pharaun>mtr can do uh udp too i think ?
16:27<pharaun>robinetd: it could be just some router in between that is overloaded, icmp tends to be the first to be thrown out
16:27<robinetd>pharaun, Dunno, but it made my ssh slow as balls. I could type like three words before it appeared. :\
16:28<pharaun>the christ, 25 hops to newark from boston 0_o
16:28<Peng>Doing an mtr from my Dallas node to the IP robinetd is IRCing from, it eventually loses the trail.
16:28<robinetd> <-
16:28<pharaun>gee thanks comcast
16:29<Peng>robinetd: That isn't lossy..
16:29<Peng>robinetd: But Fremont is?
16:29<pharaun>isn't bad, on a bad day i see like 20-40% cross the board
16:30<robinetd>Peng, Let me do dallas.
16:30<Karrde>is your name Debbie?
16:30<linbot>pharaun: [mtr] 10 hops, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms (urmom)
16:31<robinetd> <- to dallas.
16:31<pharaun>its kind of slow to dallas for me but its having no packet loss to dallas1
16:31<pharaun>and LULZ less hops from boston to dallas, than boston to newark
16:32<robinetd>Newark is where my linode was hosted before.
16:32<pharaun>that's sad, less hops to london than to newark
16:32<pharaun>*shakesfist* thanks comcast!
16:34<robinetd>40% loss to newark. 80% loss to fremont. 90% loss to dallas. I be sad ;(
16:39<Peng>robinetd: What IP are you tsting from?
16:39<Peng>Ergh, I need to open a browser.
16:39<robinetd>Peng, That which I am ircing from.
16:40<robinetd>Got 90% loss to fremont this time.
16:40-!-pitosalas [] has joined #linode
16:41<pitosalas>brand new to linode; pretty newbie admin; doing ok... qurestion: i want to serve two domains (e.g. and from the same linode server. can you point me to tips on how to do that?
16:41-!-gbit [GBTI@] has quit []
16:41<straterra>pitosalas: web traffic?
16:42<sirpengi>pitosalas: use virtualhosts
16:42<pitosalas>yeah web traffic - blogs and simple static pages
16:43<sirpengi>follow the guide for your distro
16:44<sirpengi>afaik all of them eventaully talke about virtual hosts
16:44<sirpengi>ack, spelling
16:45-!-sfe [] has joined #linode
16:47<sfe>can someone please refer me to a decent starter git text that I could play around with and get working on my linode?
16:47-!-sdfe [] has joined #linode
16:47<pharaun>pitosalas: assuming you already did all of the magic to get your dns to point to the linode/etc all of that
16:47<sdfe>whoopsie, closed the window. :)
16:49<Peng>!library virtual hosting
16:49<linbot>Peng: 1. Make a Web Server with lighttpd on Debian 5 (Lenny) ( - 2. Apache Configuration Basics ( - 3. Host Email with Postfix, Courier and MySQL on Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) (
16:49<Peng>sfe: As in git the VCS, or git, um, the self-deprecation?
16:49<pharaun>pitosalas: use those ^^
16:50<sdfe>the VCS
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16:54<sdfe>I'm curious how you could have thought I meant the latter. paste my question again please!
16:57<Peng>21:47:08 < sfe> can someone please refer me to a decent starter git text that I could play around with and get working on my linode?
16:57<Peng>I figured it could have been a not-overly-grammatical way of asking for a basic Linode setup guide.
16:57*Peng shrugs
16:58<Peng>Unfortunately, I don't use git. I do know there are some good docs around somewhere. I think they're on the official website now.
16:58<pharaun>sdfe: git can also stand for "stupid" and etc its a slang :)
16:58<pharaun>linus named git for a reason :)
16:58<sirpengi>sdfe: I'm not certain what you mean by a starter git text. you mean a tutorial on how to get started with using it?
16:58<pharaun>anyway I have seen a couple of good git guide, i can probably dig them up when i get home
16:59<robinetd>pharaun, Next project he starts should be named ego. :D
16:59<pharaun>robinetd: i thought that it was the kernel ;)
17:00<sdfe>sirpengi: yep, exactly. I'm on an archlinux btw
17:00<sdfe>the linode image is an arch one, rather
17:00<auraka>sdfe: why not gentoo...I hear gentoo is better than arch
17:00-!-sde [] has joined #linode
17:01<sirpengi>sdfe: when I started I used since that's what github referred to
17:01<sirpengi>sdfe: github itself has a few other documents on it:
17:01<sirpengi>any chance I could convince you to use hg?
17:01<sde>by Hg do you mean mercury?
17:01<pharaun>sirpengi: >_> go poison yourself with HG
17:02<sirpengi>sde: mercurial
17:02<sde>it's not a dvcs, is it?
17:02<sirpengi>it is
17:03<pharaun>it is, just bit different from git
17:03<sde>basically I'm getting a vcs so I can access and edit files from my work location/school location/home... only I probably will be the one using it
17:03<pharaun>there is several dvcs, there's git, hg, bzr, darcs (?)
17:03<sde>I just went with git because everyone is always talking about it
17:03<pharaun>well if its just going to be you, then you can just pick whichever one you want
17:04<sirpengi>sde: you use linux everywhere?
17:04<sde>I like the docs hosted on -- is there one for _any_ vcs on it?
17:04<@jed>!library git
17:05<linbot>jed: timed out
17:05<Perihelion>There are a few
17:05<sde>sirpengi, most of my computers are dual-booted.
17:05-!-sdfe [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
17:05<sde>oh cool! I didn't that was there. I think this answers my question
17:05<sirpengi>in my experience git on windows is lacking
17:05<sirpengi>but I haven't tried it lately
17:06<sirpengi>so perhaps I should say "was lacking"
17:06<pharaun>its still rough sometime i think esp with line ending
17:06<kenyon>git in cygwin is fine. I sync all my homedir dotfiles etc among windows, linux, and mac with git
17:06<pharaun>i was thinking of the mssysgit
17:06<sirpengi>then you're stuck with cygwin
17:06<straterra>jed: I just bought the iOS developer thingy..and they are shipping me something? What are they shipping me?
17:06<straterra>tortoise-git is good, btw
17:06<pharaun>straterra: they are shipping the container for you to deposit your soul into
17:07<Perihelion>they shipped me some papers and crap
17:07<Perihelion>"Welcome to our cult!" kinda crap
17:07<straterra> I need to wait on the shipment to use the development stuff?
17:08<@jed>straterra: if you went through the same flow I did, it's just a regular shopping cart
17:08<@jed>and they don't actually ship you anything
17:08<straterra>Fair enough
17:08<@jed>did you register as an individual or a company?
17:09<Perihelion>No, it's just a "hi" thing
17:09<@jed>you should be good to go once you get an e-mail, I'd guess
17:09<@jed>get ready for a 4 GB download
17:10<pharaun>jed: thats just the ios stuff, or does that include xcode, etc...
17:10<@jed>it's an xcode bundle
17:10<straterra>I already have the Apple compiler thingamabob
17:10<straterra>xcode, yeah
17:10<@jed>no partials, you get the whole thing!
17:10<@jed>you win the prize!
17:10<pharaun>local docs?
17:11<straterra>I'll have to mess with the cert crap later
17:11-!-advion [] has joined #linode
17:11<@jed>do it once on a computer you use all the time, because it's a pain to reset
17:11<pharaun>Isn't the cert crap only for submitting to the app store and onto the actual device ?
17:11<Getty>what you guys think about good soundcloud suggestions on here?
17:12<straterra>jed: It'll be the only device running OSX that I have
17:12<straterra>pharaun: need the cert to push the app to your device
17:13<straterra>I wonder how hard it would be to register my GF's ipod touch and write an app and toss it on her ipod :O
17:13<pharaun>I was told that I could just download the sdk + simulator and get going and that I would only need the cert for actual device testing
17:14<straterra>BTW, the new iPod Touches come with a free tracking/recovery app through mobile me
17:14<@jed>iphone 4 gets it too, and to answer your question, easy peasy
17:14<Getty>straterra: your gf can get the app when everybody can get it: just via the iStore
17:14<straterra>Getty: But I want to write an app just for her :O
17:15<Getty>straterra: welcome to the world which doesnt allow you to install on your device what you want
17:15<Getty>straterra: not possible
17:15<straterra>Sure it is
17:15<@jed>uh, yes it is
17:15<@jed>he's a developer
17:15<Getty>yeah and apple devices doesnt allow that
17:15<pharaun>he can just pop it on her device for "testing"
17:15<Getty>they just allow it for the developer
17:15<Getty>while he is connected to the SDK
17:15<straterra>I think I can reg. her iPod as as a development device
17:15<Getty>that was the last i heard
17:15<@jed>no, I unplug my iPhone and all my work stays on
17:15<Getty>this must be new ;)
17:15<@jed>since day 1, actually
17:15<straterra>Her iPod is on my Apple account too >:D So...awesome
17:16<Getty>then you can make internal iphone applications?!
17:16<@jed>since day 1, yes
17:16<TheFirst>so long as you're on a paid developer account
17:16-!-finra [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:16<@jed>you can ad-hoc distribute them, too
17:16<sirpengi>I thought they limit it to 5 devices only or something
17:16<TheFirst>otherwise you have to go the JB route
17:16<pharaun>jed: how does the ad-hoc distribute thing work?
17:16<@jed>can't say
17:16<pharaun>dev NDA?
17:17<pharaun>*sigh* -_-
17:17<straterra>jed: You can't say "Only allow buyers from this account to buy this app" on the app store, can you?
17:17<@jed>app store is all or nothing, afaik
17:20-!-pitosalas [] has quit [Quit: pitosalas]
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17:28<pharaun>straterra: ^^ i guess
17:29-!-vermont [] has quit [Quit: vermont]
17:34*nDuff tries to remember the 3rd-party tool his shop is using for beta distribution of their iPhone app
17:34<nDuff>ahh -- it's
17:36<tyler>neat concept
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17:54<Marius>Perihelion is a disgrace, she doesn't know who Matt Smith is!
17:55*nDuff 's knowledge of "Matt Smith"'s identity is not assisted by the answer "Yes!".
17:55<Perihelion>Your first mistake was assuming i cared
17:56<Nivex>Who's on first? What's on second? I don't know's on third?
17:56<Marius>Get it now? :P
17:56<bob2>matt's on first
17:56<Marius>Matt Smith is the eleventh doctor!
17:56-!-kassah [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:56<SelfishMan>and the whole came is played on urmom's left boob
17:56<Getty>I wanna know whats the fellows name on first base?
17:56<Nivex>Getty: Who!
17:56<Getty>the guy on first!
17:57<Getty> always classic
17:58-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:05<linbot>New news from forums: How to figure out why mysql is at 170% cpu load? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
18:07-!-Fieldy [] has joined #linode
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18:16-!-roeland [] has joined #linode
18:16<roeland>hey guys, quick question. i have some external dns sending traffic from a specific domain to my webs server.
18:16<roeland>what is easiest way to do a simple redirect to a site i host on that same server
18:17-!-loxs [~loxs@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:17<roeland>ex. should point to
18:17<jeremyb>you can't do that with DNS
18:17<roeland>both domains are managed externally, and are point to my webservers IP
18:17<roeland>so i need to make the redirect at the server level
18:17<@jed>what Web server?
18:17<jeremyb>so, just configure your website to do that
18:18<roeland>rgiht, how. lol. im pretty fresh to this stuff
18:18<roeland>i could do this in apache host config files?
18:18<jeremyb>if you have the right module available
18:18<roeland>is that the *best way to do this?
18:19<jeremyb>it's the simplest; you already have that installed
18:19<roeland>ic, are we talking about the vhosts module?
18:20<roeland>i have a folder called sites-available. and sites-enabled.
18:20<roeland>all my current sites config files are there already
18:20<jeremyb>no, mod_alias or mod_rewrite
18:20<roeland>do i have to generate a seperate file just for an alias
18:20<roeland>where would i put the rewrite jeremyb?
18:20<@pparadis>roeland: do you mean the ServerAlias directive?
18:21<jeremyb>pparadis: i think he wants a 30[12] ?
18:21-!-cats [] has quit [Quit: cats]
18:21<roeland>tbh, i am not sure what you mean. i basically need to forward site to
18:21<roeland>dns is pointing to my webserver
18:21<@jed>RedirectPermanent will give you what you want, but it preserves paths
18:21<linbot>New news from forums: Is this bad? in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
18:21<roeland> is on my server
18:21-!-cats [] has joined #linode
18:21-!-saikat [~saikat@] has joined #linode
18:22<roeland>i think rewrite is best option since i want to rewrite the url
18:22<Peng>roeland: You don't just want to do a redirect?
18:22<@jed>there's a small chance you're misunderstanding rewrite, rewrite works on paths
18:23<@jed> -> = rewrites
18:23<roeland>well, i want to rewrite to
18:23-!-cats [] has quit []
18:23<roeland>i am using the wrong words
18:23<@jed>you want
18:23<roeland>got it
18:23<@jed>Redirect permanent / # in's vhost
18:23<roeland>so quickly, where does this configuration go?
18:24<roeland>create a file for
18:24<roeland>wait ko
18:24<roeland>in my sites available
18:24<roeland>adjust that file
18:24<roeland>got it
18:24<@jed>inside the <VirtualHost>!
18:24<roeland>yep yep, im awfull slow today, but thats it, thank you guys :)
18:25<@jed>well, caveat: if you use Redirect, it's going to preserve paths
18:25<roeland>what do you mean jed?
18:25<@jed>so will redirect to
18:25<@jed>just keep that in mind
18:25<Peng>Which may be what you want.
18:25<roeland>thats perfect
18:26<roeland>this is seriously the only mirc channel i have ever been to for any products i have purchased with actually active people lol
18:26<@jed>you can use RedirectMatch if you want to avoid the path hooha, but eh
18:27<mbreslin>roeland: anyone with an @ by their name is a robot.
18:27<dominikh>it's an irc channel though, not a "mirc channel" :)
18:27<@jed>you don't, so carry on
18:27<roeland>im a noob, i told you this
18:27<roeland>@ = admin.. right!?
18:27<@jed>correct, we have the powah
18:27<mbreslin>@ = turing machine
18:27<roeland>@ = linode employee?
18:28<@jed>right again
18:28<roeland>cool cool. btw linode >> rackspace cloud. i came from there
18:28*mbreslin holds back joke about append
18:28<Peng>Yeah, at Rackspace they only +v the staff.
18:29<roeland>lol +v = ?
18:29<@jed>it's 'voice' and results in + next to your name, its technical purpose is to allow you to talk if the channel is moderated (+m)
18:29<mbreslin>only scoble has @ at rackspace
18:29<@jed>scoble is on IRC?
18:30<mbreslin>jed: i find it funny you'd think there were somewhere scoble wasn't
18:30<jeremyb>scoble is rackspace?!
18:30<@jed>jeremyb: for a while now
18:30<@jed>mbreslin: good point
18:30<jeremyb>what was he before? MS?
18:30<@jed>few intermediaries
18:30<@jed>microsoft before them
18:31<mbreslin>ms before that
18:31<mbreslin>i don't know much about him
18:32-!-Fieldy [] has quit [Quit: Fieldy]
18:33<mbreslin>he was good doing the channel 9 stuff
18:37<linbot>New news from forums: My Mediawiki site is very slow in Performance and Tuning <>
18:38<mbreslin>jed: are you the Werkzeug guy
18:38<@jed>I wouldn't go that far, but I've dug around in it
18:39<mbreslin>ok i think there was some linode person who used it a lot
18:39<@jed>let me rephrase: I've done a project in it and I'm designing another
18:39<mbreslin>it's not framework specific anyway i'm just interested in workflow
18:39-!-cats [] has joined #linode
18:40<mbreslin>well how do you deploy exactly, right now i'm just using fabric to pull into my proj root
18:40<mbreslin>(i use django)
18:40<mbreslin>fabric to git pull*
18:40<@jed>my last project utilizes mod_wsgi and I manually deploy, good chance I'll do that next time, too
18:40<@jed>staging I just use the builtin werkzeug server directly
18:43<mbreslin>i use django dev server locally then fabric to git pull from myself into proj directoy in apache
18:43<mbreslin>and touch the .wsgi
18:43<mbreslin>thought there might be a better way but that seems fine for personal stuff
18:44<mbreslin>the git pull specifically was putting me off, but i like it because it allows me to quickly revert
18:44<@jed>yeah, touching the .wsgi is nice
18:45<@jed>fabric rocks pretty hard, too
18:45<mbreslin>i mean people love it for all kinds of reasons but my main reason is it's so dead simple
18:46<mbreslin>the api is completely obvious
18:48-!-BBHoss [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:49<mbreslin>mvc was hard to get my head around but my thing has about 700 users now and has been going for about 10 months
18:49<mbreslin>it's at that other place ;/
18:49<mbreslin>i need to move it here but migration is scary
18:56<BarkerJr>not as easy as irc, huh?
18:56<mbreslin>/disconnect oftc
18:57<mbreslin>/conect oftc
18:57<mbreslin>easy peasy
18:57-!-Amy_ [~Amy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:58<mbreslin>also the amount of uploaded crap is getting rather large
18:58<mbreslin>i'd like to try the nginx proxy pass to apache+mod_wsgi thing
18:59<BarkerJr>I prefer apache proxypass to tomcat
19:00-!-Amy_ [~Amy@] has joined #linode
19:00<@jed>leeloo dallas proxypass
19:01<mbreslin>that's multipass i think
19:01-!-hhalpn [] has joined #linode
19:02<mbreslin>they should let arnold be in the total recall reboot
19:02<mbreslin>since he's not busy
19:02<hhalpn>quick question - are there any problems going on with linode right now as regards the VPS?
19:02<hhalpn>I just reset my linode and now I can't even ping the IP or ssh in.
19:02<rlankfo>i'm not having problems at freemont or newark
19:02<mbreslin>hhalpn: did you try lish?
19:02<WoodWork>No problems in London.
19:03<hhalpn>yes, lish works...but not normal command prompt ssh
19:03<hhalpn>why would that be?
19:03<hhalpn>despite the fact that it worked yesterday?
19:03<BarkerJr>I'm looking forward to experiencing the xray machines from total recall at the airport tomorrow
19:03<mbreslin>networking configuration error on your end
19:03<hhalpn>(trying to debug)
19:03<hhalpn>its a fresh debian install
19:03<hhalpn>I'll disable all security and try again
19:04<hhalpn>but its odd
19:04<BarkerJr>security is bad
19:04<rlankfo>do you have denyhosts or fail2ban or something already installed
19:04<mbreslin>hhalpn: bad iptables rule keeping you out, some ssh setting keeping you out, something in your networking keeping you out
19:04<BarkerJr>iptables is evil
19:05<hhalpn>probably, let me just disable all of that and try again....
19:05<hhalpn>although oddly enough it was all working yesterday
19:05<hhalpn>but whatever
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19:07<hhalpn>well if "ping" isnt working, its not ssh obviously...and would iptables disable ping?
19:08<hhalpn>doesnt make sense
19:08-!-atourino [~oftc@] has joined #linode
19:08<mbreslin>if you did some kind of drop all rule or something iptables would certainly make it unpingable
19:11<hhalpn>well I just deleted previous distribution and hit reinstall, rebooted, still no pinging.
19:11<hhalpn>am I haunted by the ghost of bad iptables?
19:12<hhalpn>then any ideas?
19:12<mbreslin>it's either not coming up all the way or i don't know what else
19:12<mbreslin>possibly a linode person will chime in in a bit if not submit a ticket
19:13<hhalpn>thats why I thought it might be linode or virtualization issue
19:13<hhalpn>or something severely screwy is going on in my side
19:14<hhalpn>I did install from "basic security" stackscript earlier...which probably started the problem...but now thats been deleted, perhaps it takes a while for linode to figure this out
19:14<mbreslin>if you redeployed a fresh statscript-less debian
19:14<mbreslin>it should be fine immediately
19:14<mbreslin>once it comes up
19:15<hhalpn>ah ok
19:15<hhalpn>that is what I was trying to figure out....ok, will just throw a linode ticket at them
19:15<mbreslin>you were asked to do root password or whatever? (i don't know what happens on debian)
19:16<mbreslin>(and you did press the boot button right?)
19:16-!-Kuboing1 [] has joined #linode
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19:19<hhalpn>yep and yep
19:19<mbreslin>how exactly are you connecting?
19:20<hhalpn>oh well I guess its what I get for messing with stackscripts and iptables
19:20<hhalpn>using ssh commandline from linux desktop
19:20<hhalpn>and trying from another server
19:20<mbreslin>and you're using the ip?
19:20-!-Hoggs [] has joined #linode
19:20<mbreslin>and you got the ip from the linode manager?
19:20<hhalpn>its odd
19:20<hhalpn>yet lish works
19:20<hhalpn>thats the weird thing
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19:22<mbreslin>sudo /etc/init.d/iptables stop
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19:24<mbreslin>oh crap
19:25<mbreslin>how do i ctrl-c in lish?
19:26<@heckman>I found it works in Firefox
19:26<@heckman>I think...
19:27<@heckman>mbreslin: you using Chrome?
19:27<mbreslin>and i did ping without -n
19:27<@heckman>I use Firefox for LiSh AJAX at work.
19:27<mbreslin>let's pray for ie i guess
19:28<hhalpn>will try one more time re rebotting and reinstalling debian
19:28<mbreslin>252 packets transmitted, 252 received, 0% packet loss, time 255342ms
19:30<mbreslin>"internet explorer saved me" <-- only time anyone's ever said those four words together
19:31<hhalpn>Yep, same behavior
19:31<hhalpn>lish works and ssh from commandprompt doesnt
19:31<hhalpn>why would that be?
19:31<hhalpn>(BTW, lish in AJAX can't be that secure god help us)
19:31<mbreslin>hhalpn: try ssh from command line to the lish host
19:32<mbreslin>if you can't get in that way it's 100% on your end
19:32-!-purserj [] has joined #linode
19:34<hhalpn>what would password be for list host? i.e. my linode account password?
19:34<hhalpn>it seems to work though
19:34<linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log in to the Linode Manager. LISH's primary function is to allow you to access your Linode's console, even if networking is disabled.
19:34<hhalpn>I get a password prompt, more than I get when i try to ssh into my actual box
19:35<mbreslin>mwalling probably knows fresh debian
19:35<mbreslin>oh well
19:35<mbreslin>hhalpn: ticket time
19:35<@heckman>mbreslin: What do you need
19:35<@heckman>I used debian
19:36<mbreslin>heckman: hhalpn deployed a fresh debian and can't ssh
19:36<mwalling>i do ubutnu, and hardly. ubuntu bootstraps puppet, then something else takes over
19:36<mwalling>hhalpn: "did you turn it on?"
19:36<mbreslin>i asked him that already haha
19:36<@heckman>Can you ping it?
19:37<@heckman>You can PM me the Linode's IP and I can see if I can ssh from here.
19:37<mbreslin>he says no, he said it started when he did the basic security stackscript but now he's deleted it and deployed fresh and still can't ssh in
19:37<hhalpn>lish works
19:37<@heckman>Did you clear your RSA key cache?
19:38<hhalpn>and crazily enough, I just added a new IP address and I can now root into my machine via the new IP address.
19:38<hhalpn>usually known_host would give a conflict, no?
19:38<hhalpn>but yes, I'll do that now
19:38<@heckman>If you redployed the RSA key changes.
19:38<@heckman>Your localmachine may see the RSA key doesn't match was cached for the Linode and is freaking out.
19:38<@heckman>Adding a second IP would fix this.
19:38<atourino>hey... anyone have any experience with system76 laptops?
19:39<hhalpn>ah but the problem can be replicated from non-local machines
19:39<mbreslin>hhalpn: connecting to a different ip starts the whole thing over
19:39<mbreslin>new key etc
19:39<@heckman>You added a second IP
19:40<@heckman>did you do the static IP configuration?
19:40<hhalpn>hold on...
19:40<mbreslin>oh i thought he added the ip just now, if he added it before that's the issue lol
19:40<mbreslin>you can't connect to the old ip because you only get one with dhcp
19:41<hhalpn>no I just added it now
19:41<mbreslin>(and now you've got the new one)
19:41<hhalpn>anyways, weird
19:41<@heckman>hhalpn: PM me the IP(s)
19:41<mbreslin>heckman: the old one for sure won't work now until he does the static config
19:42<hhalpn>anyways, at least I have something working now, which is better than 5 minutes ago, although the matter is mildly odd.
19:42*heckman shrugs
19:43<mbreslin>well add them both and try to get in from the old one, you're going to want to fix that either way
19:43<hhalpn>am doing now
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19:49-!-potential [] has joined #linode
19:51<potential>Hello, I missed the $100 giveaway, any chance of receiving a $100 credit if I still sign up now? I've been waiting for a deal to sign up so I can get my hands wet w hosting server admin
19:52*jeremyb puts $100 in copier for potential
19:52<jeremyb>should i fax it?
19:52<@heckman>potential: Unfortunately the giveaway has ended.
19:52<jeremyb>(i isn't serious of course)
19:53<mbreslin>the keyword in that was probably missed
19:53-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
19:53-!-potentialuser [] has joined #linode
19:53<@heckman>We're not currently giving out any more credits. If we decide on another giveaway we'll post it on our blog:
19:54<potentialuser>Any promotions in the near future?
19:54-!-Megaf [~megaf@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:55<@heckman>At this time, no.
19:55<@heckman>We'll announce em on the blog if something comes along.
19:55<potentialuser>10-4, thank you
19:55<@heckman>Not a problem. =]
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20:05<swaj>apparently it's not possible to center a legend tag in Firefox without using the deprecated "align" attribute..... Chrome and Safari do it just fine.... I hate you firefox
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20:13<dominikh>firefox is becoming the new IE in my developing cycle
20:13<dstufft>swaj: firefox only javascript that adds the align tag
20:13<@heckman>Firefox is becoming too slow. I had to jump ship because of it.
20:13<@heckman>Chrome/Opera are where its at now.
20:15<swaj>Firefox used to be so good... now it's turning into a nightmare. Even crap that IE supports sometimes doesn't work in FF
20:15<sirpengi>firebug is still the king
20:15<sirpengi>the chrome dev extension isn't as good
20:15<swaj>there's a firebug lite I think for chrome
20:17<sirpengi>I dunno, chrome is too unstable for me. but that's probably because I run the unstable branch
20:17<dominikh>chrome has the developer tools, what else do you want
20:17<mbreslin>sirpengi: which branch?
20:17<mbreslin>i run chrome-dev
20:17<sirpengi>but then I also run the beta firefox
20:17<mbreslin>crashed like 3 times in 6 months
20:18<sirpengi>I tried to jump ship to opera, but I couldn't access gmail
20:18<mbreslin>(there is reproducable crashes too)
20:18<mbreslin>chrome-dev doesn't graceful exit when you have a pdf open for instance
20:18-!-Nivex [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:18<mbreslin>i'd run the canary build if you could have it as the default browser
20:21<jeremyb>i crashed safari (on mac) ~4x today
20:22<sirpengi>mbreslin: looks like -dev
20:23<sirpengi>I must give it to chrome, the private browsing rocks
20:23-!-inji [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:24<sirpengi>ff's private browsing makes all your normal windows disappear
20:25<straterra>OH HAI
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20:41<BarkerJr>wtf, I fill out a secure email (form) to boa and they send an autoreply to my gmail address with my account number in it
20:41<sirpengi>BoA is pretty cute
20:41-!-zivester [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:43<robinetd>BoA? All this means to me is Bind on Account. :(
20:44<mwalling>robinetd: bank of america
20:45<mbreslin>sirpengi: aka porn mode
20:45<sirpengi>that's just what people call it
20:45<mwalling>actually, chrome calls it Incognito Mode
20:45<mbreslin>because i bet that' 75% at least of the use cases
20:46<sirpengi>I must say as a webdev, it's a good quick way to see what the page looks like when you aren't logged in etc.
20:46-!-gilaniali [] has joined #linode
20:46<sirpengi>BarkerJr: itym
20:46<BarkerJr>it don't take me to a page about snakes
20:46<mbreslin>i love it i used it for a few months then went to the dev channel never looked back
20:46<mbreslin>on this machine i've never even installed ff
20:46<BarkerJr>some of those snakes are real pretty
20:47-!-atourino [~oftc@] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
20:47<sirpengi>I can't say much about her music though
20:48<straterra>Yup..Chrome is beachballed
20:48<mbreslin>apparently there aren't as many hooks in chrome for extension developers
20:48<straterra>Guess its time to reboot OSX
20:48<mbreslin>the access to firefox is deeper or something
20:49<dominikh>unfortunately, yes
20:49<straterra>Oh, look. OSX doesn't wanna reboot
20:49<sirpengi>steve jobs won't allow it
20:49-!-descender [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:49<dominikh>did you try using your other hand instead
20:50<sirpengi>you need to file a form and wait for reboot approval
20:50<robinetd>sirpengi, Nonsense. They'll contact you when they think it's time. No need to apply.
20:50-!-vraa [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:50<hawk>robinetd: They? Steve contacts you!
20:51<robinetd>hawk, If he isn't busy talking with xenu, you mean.
20:51<hawk>What's a xenu?
20:52<robinetd>hawk, Google scientology. Also tom hanks. The lulz will ensue.
20:52*Perihelion fires the troll cannon
20:52-!-descender [] has joined #linode
20:52<hawk>Ie, some whacko stuff?
20:53<sirpengi>what does Tom Hanks have to do with Scientology?
20:53<sirpengi>I think you meant the crazy tom
20:54<Perihelion>he meant tom cruise
20:54<robinetd>^ True.
20:54-!-vraa [] has joined #linode
20:54<sirpengi>please don't mix those two up
20:55<robinetd>Give me William Shatner over either of them any day.
21:02-!-kaitocracy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:02<@pparadis>i. think robinetd should. be given an. award. for his loyalty.
21:02<robinetd>Just one?
21:03<@pparadis>WHO'S YOUR 16TH PRESIDENT?
21:03<robinetd>Abraham, sir!
21:04*robinetd is glad google exists.
21:04<BarkerJr>chrome doesn't allow as many hooks to places where performance is critical, which is why it's fast
21:04<bob2>your cat's breath smells like cat food
21:05<@pparadis>d-b: get your face out of that pussy.
21:06<d-b>pparadis: ha!
21:06<robinetd>That's what she said.
21:06<robinetd>Oh, wait.
21:06<linbot>THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!
21:06<robinetd>induring pparadis being funny. \o/
21:07-!-snubby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
21:07<robinetd>That's like the third time I've seen that nick killed.
21:08<WoodWork>!urmom troll
21:08<linbot>WoodWork: Yo momma's so fat, she must have been compiled with --fatroll-loops! (746:12/3) [mmuro]
21:08<linbot>pparadis: Yo momma's so stupid, she keeps clicking the link to (835:5/0) [ommur]
21:08<@pparadis>aaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww yeah
21:08-!-orieg [] has quit [Quit: orieg]
21:08<@pparadis>that's my fave pic
21:09*robinetd didn't click.
21:09<@pparadis>but it's so good
21:09<robinetd>It's likely something nasty like either an irl snorlax or a shock site rerun.
21:09<robinetd>I'm going for the first though.
21:10<straterra>My xcode is old..and won't work for 4.2.1
21:10<straterra>So..I get to download all 3.5 gigs again
21:10*robinetd tosses straterra an apple.
21:10<robinetd>Don't hate the company, hate the fruit.
21:10-!-vraa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:11<BarkerJr>say I'm leaving for a month... should I leave my router and modem on or off?
21:11<robinetd>BarkerJr, On.
21:11<WoodWork>Just incase, there's loads of reports in the UK about things catching fire.
21:11<BarkerJr>will comcast forget my modem's mac address?
21:11<hawk>BarkerJr: Unless you need remote access to something there it's not much point...
21:12<robinetd>o_O why would they?
21:12<mbreslin>BarkerJr: no but it will likely give you a new ip in that time
21:12<mbreslin>if you like your current ip keep it on
21:13<@pparadis> / | / \ | _ \
21:13<@pparadis> | (-----| |----`/ ^ \ | |_) |
21:13<@pparadis> \ \ | | / /_\ \ | /
21:13<@pparadis> .-----) | | | / _____ \ | |\ \-------.
21:13<@pparadis> |________/ |__| /__/ \__\| _| `.________|
21:13<@pparadis> ____ __ ____ ___ .______ ________.
21:13<@pparadis> \ \ / \ / / / \ | _ \ / |
21:13<@pparadis> \ \/ \/ / / ^ \ | |_) || (-----`
21:13<Perihelion>there's no guarantee youll keep it if it's on though
21:13<@pparadis> \ / / /_\ \ | / \ \
21:13<@pparadis> \ /\ / / _____ \ | |\ \---) |
21:13<@pparadis> \__/ \__/ /__/ \__\|__| `._______/
21:13<BarkerJr>I don't like my current ip
21:13<Perihelion> ____ _ _ _ ___ _
21:13<Perihelion>| _ \| | | | / \ |_ _| |
21:13<Perihelion>| |_) | |_| | / _ \ | || |
21:13<Perihelion>| __/| _ |/ ___ \ | || |___
21:13<Perihelion>|_| |_| |_/_/ \_\___|_____|
21:13<mbreslin>Perihelion: of course but a much better chance of keeping it if it's on
21:13<@pparadis>Perihelion: yes
21:13<Perihelion>also a much better chance for china to try and say hi
21:14<BarkerJr>so I turn off my computers and turn off, but don't unplug, the UPSes
21:14<mbreslin>they're probably just looking for the money we owe them
21:14<@pparadis>. . . .
21:14<@pparadis> .
21:14<@pparadis> . . .
21:14<@pparadis> . . . .
21:14<@pparadis> . . .
21:14<@pparadis> . A terrible civil war burns throughout the . . .
21:14<@pparadis> galaxy: a rag-tag group of freedom fighters . .
21:14<@pparadis> . . has risen from beneath the dark shadow of the .
21:14<@pparadis>. . evil monster the Galactic Empire has become. .
21:14<@pparadis> . Imperial forces have instituted a reign of . .
21:14<@pparadis> terror, and every weapon in its arsenal has been
21:14<@pparadis> . turned upon the Rebels and their allies: tyranny, . .
21:14<@pparadis> . oppression, vast fleets, overwhelming armies, and fear. . .
21:14<@pparadis>. . Fear keeps the individual systems in line, and is the .
21:14<@pparadis> prime motivator of the New Order. .
21:14-!-Perihelion [] has left #linode []
21:14<@pparadis> . Outnumbered and outgunned, the Rebellion burns across the . .
21:14<@pparadis>. vast reaches of space and a thousand-thousand worlds, with only .
21:14<robinetd>Spam, it's in a can, and now it's on my SCREEEEEEEEEEEEN
21:14<@pparadis> . their great courage - and the mystical power known as the Force -
21:14<@pparadis> flaming a fire of hope. .
21:14<@pparadis> This is a galaxy of wondrous aliens, bizarre monsters, strange .
21:14<@pparadis> . Droids, powerful weapons, great heroes, and terrible villains. It is a
21:14<@pparadis> galaxy of fantastic worlds, magical devices, vast fleets, awesome machi- .
21:14<@pparadis> nery, terrible conflict, and unending hope. . .
21:14<@pparadis>. . . . . . . .
21:15<@pparadis> . .. . . . .
21:15<@pparadis> . . T h i s i s t h e g a l a x y o f . . . .
21:15<@pparadis> . . . . .
21:15<@pparadis>. . . . . .
21:15<@pparadis> . . . . . .
21:15<@pparadis> . . . . . . .
21:15<@pparadis> _________________ ____ __________
21:15<@pparadis> . . / | / \ . | \
21:15<@pparadis> . / ______ _____| . / \ | ___ | . .
21:15<robinetd>I lost the game.
21:15<@pparadis> \ \ | | / /\ \ | |___> |
21:15<@pparadis> . \ \ | | / /__\ \ . | _/ .
21:15<@pparadis> . ________> | | | . / \ | |\ \_______ .
21:15<@pparadis> | / | | / ______ \ | | \ |
21:15<@pparadis> |___________/ |___| /____/ \____\ |___| \__________| .
21:15<@pparadis> . ____ __ . _____ ____ . __________ . _________
21:15<magicalfruit>Was this really needed?
21:15<@pparadis> \ \ / \ / / / \ | \ / | .
21:15<@pparadis> \ \/ \/ / / \ | ___ | / ______| .
21:15<@pparadis> \ / / /\ \ . | |___> | \ \
21:15<@pparadis> . \ / / /__\ \ | _/. \ \ +
21:15<@pparadis> \ /\ / / \ | |\ \______> | .
21:15<@pparadis> \ / \ / / ______ \ | | \ / .
21:15<@pparadis> . . \/ \/ /____/ \____\ |___| \____________/ LS
21:15<@pparadis> . .
21:15<@pparadis> . . . . .
21:15<hawk>well well, that's what /ignore is for
21:16<waltman>I bet even Yaakov wouldn't have a great huge love of this
21:16<@pparadis> . . .
21:16<@pparadis>mo betta
21:16<@pparadis>magicalfruit: $toot
21:16<robinetd>hawk, You know he's an op, right?
21:16<mbreslin>pparadis: after that you should have been like "sorry spider walked across my kb"
21:16<dominikh>/exec -o telnet
21:16<@pparadis>mbreslin: brilliant!
21:16<@pparadis>sorry my 9 month old walked across my keyboard
21:16<magicalfruit>robinetd: Who cares?
21:16<hawk>robinetd: I do, doesn't make him any less annoying when he does that
21:16-!-Perihelion [] has joined #linode
21:16-!-mode/#linode [+o Perihelion] by ChanServ
21:17<@Perihelion>Bleh, now I'm an op again >:(
21:17<robinetd>Nothing. Ignoring an op usually has bad consequences on freenode. Not used to the atmosphere around here. :)
21:17<hawk>robinetd: And it IS what /ignore is for
21:17<mbreslin>hawk: yeah how dare he interupt the stimulating conversation we were having about absolutely nothing
21:17<@Perihelion>I ignore ops all the time!
21:17<magicalfruit>Me too, apparently.
21:18-!-Amy_ [~Amy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:18<hawk>mbreslin: I'm not sure what your point is exactly
21:18<mbreslin>i for one don't care for the interuption and was waiting with baited breath for the resolution of BarkerJr's router power cycle/vacation conundrum
21:19<mbreslin>hawk: my point was who cares
21:19<mbreslin>don't look at the channel
21:19-!-hhalpn [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
21:19<@pparadis>hawk: i have a little fun now and again. feel free to /ignore, but that just excludes you from my help if you need it in the future.
21:19<mbreslin>nothing was being said anyway
21:19<hawk>mbreslin: I "fixed it"
21:19-!-megatron [] has joined #linode
21:19<BarkerJr>mbreslin: well, I'll just shut them off
21:20<straterra>pparadis: I'm proud of you :)
21:20<@pparadis>straterra: <3
21:20<BarkerJr>I'd hate for some dd-wrt remote exploit to come out and me not be there to patch
21:20<straterra>It normally takes trolling of my magnitude to piss that many people off
21:20<robinetd>Didn't bother me. I was busy playing kane and lynch. Still am. :D
21:20<BarkerJr>and if my router is off, there's no point to my modem being on, cause it won't register my mac anyway
21:21<straterra>Why waste the power?
21:21<WoodWork>Why do you need a modem and router?
21:21<mbreslin>BarkerJr: i don't get the mac thing isn't it tied to your modem?
21:21<BarkerJr>well, I have to pay for power anyway
21:21<BarkerJr>I think it's a combination of the two
21:21<@Perihelion>But you'd be using less of it?
21:21<mbreslin>your router shouldn't need to be ever registered with comcast
21:21<mbreslin>BarkerJr: it's not, honestly.
21:22<BarkerJr>cause I have to reboot my modem to switch routers
21:22-!-Amy_ [~Amy@] has joined #linode
21:22<mbreslin>yeah but that's nothing to do with comcast, that's to do with your modem->router, comcast register's your modem's mac address
21:23<BarkerJr>so my modem is stupid :/
21:23<robinetd>apostrophe misuse makes me sad :(
21:23*Perihelion summons the apostrophe police
21:23<mbreslin>anything that happens after that isn't to do with comcast, in some areas you may need to spoof your modem's mac addy on your router
21:23<mbreslin>but mostly not anymore
21:23-!-roeland [] has quit []
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21:24<BarkerJr>WoodWork: I don't honestly know if my modem will NAT, but I know for certain that it won't 6to4 and port forward and all the stuff I really like
21:24<WoodWork>Ahh! Different setup me to. ;)
21:25<mbreslin>i like to keep them seperate anyway so the router can die and i can still -> internet
21:25<mbreslin>while ordering a new router or whatever
21:25<BarkerJr>I have a beautiful buffalo router recommended on this very channel, which does pretty much everything I could ever want, except 5MHz 802.11n
21:26<BarkerJr>but that's ok, cause I don't have any wireless N devices, anyway
21:26<BarkerJr>ooh, even better
21:26<BarkerJr>that 72-day uptime on my router will be sad to lose, though
21:27<straterra>uptime is over rated
21:27<straterra>I'd do with the less power consumption
21:27<hawk>you'll have that back in a few months, no biggie
21:27<mbreslin>there is some new router at ces that does 450mbit now
21:27<straterra>I'd go around and unplug my directv/cable boxes too
21:27<straterra>And the TVs
21:27<mbreslin>on 2.4 and 5ghz simult.
21:27<straterra>If you arent use in them drawing standby power
21:28<hawk>mbreslin: The wndr3700 does some 500 Mbps of routing, for instance
21:28<mbreslin>straterra: can you stop by and unplug all of mine?
21:28<mbreslin>hawk: not wirless-N bandwidth though
21:28<mbreslin>and not on 2 bands at the same time max bandwidth
21:29<mbreslin>of that much
21:29<sirpengi>you'll have that back in 72 days if my math is correct
21:29<mbreslin>sirpengi: !
21:29<straterra>hawk: thats what I have
21:29<straterra>and I love it
21:30<mbreslin>that one is pretty popular
21:30<hawk>straterra: I have one of those two...
21:30<mbreslin>350 each band i think
21:30<straterra>Freaking gigabit wan port
21:31<mbreslin>straterra: is it? i didn't know that that's pretty awesome
21:31<mbreslin>where are you google gige!
21:31<BarkerJr>straterra: that's why I'm powering down the UPSes
21:31<straterra>Power down everything
21:32<mbreslin>i agree if you're on vacation or whatever turn it all off
21:32<mbreslin>and unplug
21:32-!-PeteMall [] has quit [Quit: PeteMall]
21:32<BarkerJr>but I understand that unplugging the UPSes will lower their life
21:32<straterra>If you unplug them for years, yes
21:32<BarkerJr>what about months?
21:33<straterra>6 is the max I would
21:37<BarkerJr>I don't have any TVs or cable boxes, anyway
21:37<straterra>I need a good iOS programming book
21:39<mbreslin>straterra: when i was looking into it the consensus seemed to be start here
21:41<mbreslin>then there's a cookbook or something to get that you can just see how different things are done on ios
21:41<mbreslin>iphone dev cookbook
21:43<straterra>actually..check this out
21:43*robinetd checks straterra out.
21:45<mbreslin>straterra: there's also itunes-u or whatever
21:45-!-Giacomohhh [~giacomo@] has joined #linode
21:45<mbreslin>there is that class that was at stanford that is on there in video form you can follow along with
21:46<gilaniali>How do I save the the output of a python script
21:47<mbreslin>> file
21:47<mbreslin>python > file
21:49-!-Gika [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:50<straterra>python &> file.txt
21:50<straterra>the & will capture errors too
21:50-!-message144 [] has joined #linode
21:52<gilaniali>mbreslin: thanks
21:52<gilaniali>straterra: thanks
21:52-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
21:53<mbreslin>python doesn't have errors
21:53<@pparadis>All right stop collaborate and listen
21:53<@pparadis>Ice is back with my brand new invention
21:53<@pparadis>Something grabs a hold of me tightly
21:53<@pparadis>Flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
21:53<@pparadis>All right stop collaborate and listen
21:53<@pparadis>Ice is back with my brand new invention
21:53<@pparadis>Something grabs a hold of me tightly
21:53<@pparadis>Flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
21:54<@pparadis>sorry wrong window
21:54<bob2>you made vanilla ice seem uncool :(
21:54<straterra>pparadis: I just sang that to my gf
21:55<straterra>and now..shes going to listen to it
21:55<@pparadis>epic win
21:55<straterra>I should record her singing and put it on youtube
21:55<robinetd>I support this message!
21:55<straterra>I dont think I can do it without her noticing
21:56<@pparadis>i'll give it "thumbs up"
21:57<gilaniali>how do i copy the contents of a file to my clipboard from the command line
21:57<linbot>New news from forums: Debian 5 or Ubuntu 9.10 for Mercury? in General Discussion <>
21:58-!-d-b [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:58<straterra>I wish xcode came in an lzma archive
22:00<straterra> there a command to have irssi scroll to the bottom of a window?
22:01<bob2>/scrollback end
22:01<straterra> you
22:01<straterra>I accidentally scrolled up like 2 weeks ago..and went back to that window..and yeah
22:02-!-d-b [] has joined #linode
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22:07<dominikh>heh... so there are admins, ops, half ops and.. how do you call people who are voiced if you're only allowed a single word?
22:08<dominikh>a serious word :<
22:08<robinetd>It's srs bsns.
22:09<bob2>which ircd lets you do that?
22:09<pwnguin>the unmoderated ;)
22:09<bob2>do you mean +v? unmoderated or voiced
22:09<dominikh>people who got +v, what are they called :)
22:09<pwnguin>the chosen
22:09<dominikh>in a single word, that is
22:09<dominikh>well, I need a noun
22:10<bob2>oh, I thought you meant what mode allowed people to only say a single word
22:10<bob2>voiced or unmoderated
22:10<dominikh>that'd be an... interesting mode
22:10-!-gilaniali [] has quit [Quit: gilaniali]
22:10<pwnguin>i think there's an xkcd channel for that
22:11<robinetd>But is there an app for that?
22:11<@heckman>How many people here use Android?
22:12-!-message144 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:12*nDuff grumbles about IRC-based polls
22:12<@heckman>I'm simply curious
22:12<@heckman>nDuff: is apparently an iOS user.
22:13<pwnguin>my next phone might be android
22:13<nDuff>yar, but asking what percentage of hundreds of people happen to fit a specific set of criteria, AND be online, AND feel like answering, and thinking that the result you get is somehow meaningful...
22:13<pwnguin>nDuff: of those selection biases, which ones are influenced by phone OS?
22:13-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #linode
22:13<nDuff>...moreover, if you -do- get responses, they mess up the signal-to-noise ratio for the channel
22:14<pwnguin>i guess iphone users are less likely to have sufficient signal for data
22:14-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:14<nDuff>pwnguin, I'm not so much arguing that phone OS has any influence on the selection bias, but that any data you get is too noisy to be of any use
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22:15<bob2>pwnguin: iphone signal problems mostly seem to be at&t sucks problems
22:15<bob2>which is hard to detect if you only read us-based gadget blogs =)
22:15*nDuff is, by the way, an Android user -- currently running a Google Ion / ADP2 with current CyanogenMod firmware. *sigh*.
22:15<pwnguin>if theres no selection bias, then increasing sample size solves the noise problem (at the expense of s:n)
22:15*pwnguin uses maemo
22:16<nDuff>pwnguin, sure, but it has to be a pretty massive sample to overcome that amount of noise
22:16<pwnguin>what amount of noise?
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22:16<nDuff>pwnguin, ...I posit that we're not going to find _any_ IRC channel here with the necessary characteristics
22:16<megatron27>hey nDuff
22:16<nDuff>megatron27, howdy
22:17<pwnguin>rule number one of clueless science buffs is to claim the sample size is too small
22:17-!-LyonJT [] has joined #linode
22:17<pwnguin>rule number two is to claim selection bias
22:17-!-Knight [] has joined #linode
22:19<megatron27>what's rule #3
22:19<megatron27>is it claim that correlation is causation
22:19<pwnguin>no, its to claim it's not
22:20<pwnguin>i bet if i went over archives of slashdot's science section i could fill out at least ten of these
22:21<pwnguin>Kneejerk scientific dogma
22:22<pwnguin>on a related subject, ive got limesurvey packaged up for ubuntu
22:22<megatron27>that should be your PhD paper
22:22-!-LyonJT [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
22:22<megatron27>"Analysis of Slashdot Scientific Article Rebuttals"
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22:23<@heckman>Anyone know of a pre-built petition site I could throw on a Linode?
22:23<@heckman>Instead of using one of those free hosted ones, or whatever.
22:24<pwnguin>as in, "spam this form to prove you care?" petition site?
22:24<@heckman>No, legit as in you place your name in, and it e-mails you a confirmation e-mail.
22:24<mbreslin>i think he means poll
22:25<pwnguin>cuz those are totally the same as identities
22:25<robinetd>The only petition I support are petitions to end petitions.
22:26<@heckman>pwnguin: Well, then how do you propose a better way to do it?
22:26<pwnguin>credit card numbers and donations ;)
22:28<pwnguin>my day job is identity management at a large uni. im starting to think the problem is fundamentally intractable
22:30<pwnguin>if it's not a big deal, i suggest one of the billion guestbook widgets
22:30<pwnguin>or you could cook up a quick django site that uses registration as proof of petition signing
22:31<pwnguin>the californian gold standard is to ignore the problem, aka signatures
22:31<@heckman>Well, I want this to be a global thing. I wish it was easy enough to have signatures.
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22:32<pwnguin>well, most people with enough money to get on the internet have a credit card, so that's a plus
22:35<pwnguin>anyways, i came here to ask a question: i want to separate/ turn off log files for various parts of my site
22:35<pwnguin>can i put customLog in a directory.. directive?
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22:36<Thorn>pwnguin: you can do that in nginx
22:36<pwnguin>specifically, Apache
22:38<Thorn>most likely no
22:38<mbreslin>define various parts of your site
22:38<mbreslin>you mean requests to domain.tld/blah get their own log file in docroot/blah
22:39<Thorn> : Context:server config, virtual host
22:39<pwnguin>well, not docroot but if* was logged to /var/log/apache2/subsite.log, that'd be good
22:40<mbreslin>from the link thorn posted it looks possible
22:40<pwnguin>i already read it and wasn't sure how to intrepret the contents.
22:41<pwnguin>err, i read the directory directive one
22:41<Thorn>look for the example starting with SetEnvIf Request_URI \.gif$ gif-image
22:42<Thorn>looks like it is possible after all, though not as straightforward as in nginx
22:42<Thorn>which can be said about apache config in general
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22:43<pwnguin>basically, im tired of CalDAV dominiating my webalizer stats
22:44-!-kaitocracy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44<Thorn>I don't know about webalizer but awstats can be configured to ignore certain log lines
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22:45<pwnguin>i'd also like to move some other stuff out. maybe i'll just set up seperate subdomains and use virtual hosts
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22:48<user5355>what's better, setting up LAMP manually or using a StackScript?
22:49<jeremyb>or none of the above
22:49<user5355>i like webalizer, awstats is cool ::: the easiest to use is always the best..
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22:53<Thorn>LNPP > LAMP
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23:04<HoopyCat>probably linux+nginx+postgresql+php
23:05<mbreslin>apache config sucks apache config sucks
23:05<mbreslin>it doesn't suck if you know it
23:05<mbreslin>not like it's new, the whole world knows most directives by now
23:05<jeremyb>so, then LNPPy?
23:06<HoopyCat>apache config does kinda suck, esp. explaining to people how it picks a default virtualhost when there are no obvious choices...
23:06<mbreslin>it's perfectly predictable though
23:07<mbreslin>whichever is listed first
23:07<mbreslin>you don't like it change the order
23:07<HoopyCat>mbreslin: it's perfectly predictable as long as you know what you're doing, have it set up properly, and don't change anything :-)
23:07<HoopyCat>throw in a second IP address and oh god
23:08<mbreslin>i just get tired of hearing it i guess "nginx config is sooooooo much better" "why?" well it doesn't have all those dumb <'s
23:08<mbreslin>who cares!
23:09<mbreslin>if you know what they do it's just syntax in a small file
23:09<mbreslin>it's not a programming language where you're up to your ass in it 8 hours a day
23:09<user5355>i'm learning.. it's a process
23:09<user5355>lol. patience is a virtue!
23:10<HoopyCat>yeah, that's kinda not my argument in favor of nginx's configuration... and really, i have to look to find the {} keys, so it's kind of a downside of nginx
23:10<mbreslin>user5355: if you're learning it's a totally different deal
23:10<mbreslin>user5355: in fact i would probably point new people at nginx
23:10<user5355>i'll have to try out nginx's config. right now i'm familiar with LAMP so i'm going with Apache.. =P
23:10<user5355>that's good to know! i'll keep that in mind! lol
23:10<mbreslin>but just to "finally be rid of tags and get back to the infinitely better semicolons and curly braces" is absurd
23:11<mbreslin>syntax is syntax
23:11<mbreslin>learn it and move on
23:11<user5355>i'll let ya'll know if i have success. so far i'm still digging through the documentation, should be simple only hosting one or three virtual domains on a VPS
23:11<user5355>yes sir!
23:11<mbreslin>user5355: for most things you'd want to do there is a linode guide
23:12<mbreslin>for multiple domains !google linode apache name based virtual hosts
23:13<HoopyCat>i think it comes down to "are you going to be using php?"... if so, use apache, it's just so much easier (except for that implosion problem)
23:13<mbreslin>the guides are one of the best things about linode
23:13<HoopyCat>if not, use nginx. at worst, it's a toss-up. at best, it's less cumbersome.
23:14*nDuff favors Lighttpd
23:14<mbreslin>i mean the memory footprint and supposed speed increase and such make total sense, but don't talk to me about < vs ;
23:14<mbreslin>who cares
23:14<user5355>yes, i love the guides. super duper work. excellent job. hurrah and two hip hips! srslly =P
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23:15<HoopyCat>nDuff: i almost favor lighttpd, but the fastcgi.server syntax has started to grate on me a bit... but wait i can't talk about that :-)
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23:19<HoopyCat>really, apache and nginx/lighttpd/everything-else are pretty much of two different species
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23:20<HoopyCat>you've got your php application server, sort of the coldfusion of the proletariat... that's apache. then you've got your hard-core high-performance serving-out-content-like-it's-going-out-of-style http servers
23:20<mbreslin>i believe you and i see it when people paste screens of their app memory in apache vs nginx, i just hate the semicolon/curlybraces are awesome argument
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23:21<mbreslin>when i move my app over here i'm going to setup nginx out front first
23:21<mbreslin>been wanting to do it for awhile
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23:22<HoopyCat>i'm a native python programmer and my #1 syntax errors in other languages are semicolon-related, so please, believe you me, i have no love for the little beasties
23:23<HoopyCat>especially in VHDL entity definitions, when you've got the ports declaration... every single port statement has to have a semicolon after it, except for the last one. ugh.
23:24<HoopyCat>bunch of ballsack, i say. but curiously, it's the apache configuration that lacks semicolons and the nginx (choice, as you know, of respectable python professionals) configuration that does
23:24-!-mookie [] has joined #linode
23:25<HoopyCat>there's probably some sort of original-sin thing in here, probably tracable back to the catholic church or something...
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23:29<megatron27>hey hoop
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23:30<HoopyCat>good evening, megatron27;
23:30<mbreslin>HoopyCat: as a python programmer you should know there's nothing wrong with python+apache+mod_wsgi ;p
23:32-!-HedgeMage [] has quit [Quit: Real life calls.]
23:32<HoopyCat>mbreslin: to the eternal pits of hell with you!
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23:36*bintut waves
23:36<mbreslin>but i would like to do the nginx proxypass thing to apach+wsgi
23:36<mbreslin>and see my loads
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23:42<bintut>i tried to boot using pv-grub and a recompiled kernel 2.6.32 from debian squeeze with changes of setting the timer frequency from 250hz to 1000hz and high resolution timer was enabled. i recompiled the kernel because i want to have a meetme support in my asterisk lenny. now, i can't boot the said kernel. kindly check
23:43-!-RiverRat [] has joined #linode
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23:45*nDuff loves linode, but is not really sure that they're a good fit for highly latency-sensitive use cases (a category anything requiring hrtimers falls into)
23:45<nDuff>bintut, also, it looks like you built a non-Xen kernel
23:45<Getty>i can tell you out of experience with xen for gaming servers that it is technical possible
23:46<chesty>i don't thibk they are a good fit for anyone who uses "use case"
23:46<Getty>but it needs tuning on the xen level a bit, so i guess linode team could make it happen if the requirement is there, the gameservers were running like real systems at the end
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23:51<bintut>nDuff: my config file is at
23:52<nDuff>bintut, it's not just the config that matters -- also the variables you passed on the make command line.
23:53*nDuff also is kinda' busy with paying work right now
23:53<bintut>make-kpkg clean && make-kpkg --initrd kernel_image
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23:56<hobot>webob is my friend
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23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.22096982, 0.82034065) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17564 of 22343 (π ≈ 3.144430022825941 - 0.002837369236148)
23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.27797162, 0.23237108) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17565 of 22344 (π ≈ 3.144468313641246 - 0.002875660051453)
23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.02282814, 0.02641457) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17566 of 22345 (π ≈ 3.144506601029313 - 0.002913947439520)
---Logclosed Sat Jan 08 00:00:04 2011