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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-01-16

---Logopened Sun Jan 16 00:00:29 2011
00:00<art>guys whats the easiest way to check php is working i make file info.php with <?php phpinfo(); ?> browser simply wants to download it
00:01<Ovron>pharaun: what if you tell it axis=1 or axis=2 in the mean() call?
00:01<pharaun>Ovron: that's my thought exactly, however, what happens is
00:02<pharaun>axis=0 and 1 ends up with a [[x y z] [x y z],....]
00:03<pharaun>then axis=3 ends upbeing some..... weird clusterfuck
00:03-!-LongPointyStick is now known as Hobbsee
00:04<Ovron>mhm, it isn't fully recursive (at least not like you want it to be); might have to run run a mean on the mean :p
00:04<pharaun>i just added a 3rd dim slice
00:04<pharaun>to slice out the color channel, and that seems to work, but damn annoying
00:05<pharaun>meaning it would be 3 slice & mean per image
00:05<pharaun>er my bad
00:05<pharaun>3 slice/mean per bin in the 32x32 mean of the image
00:05<NewtonianB>has anyone ever seen the movie "the man who came to diner"
00:05<pharaun>which is 1024*3 oppr, so i was trying to get it even lower to 1024 opper per image to make it even faster
00:06<NewtonianB>i just found the most hilarious scene
00:07<pharaun>Ovron: i guess i'll just go with this as it is and see if it'll do the trick
00:07<snubby> sounds great with my x-fi, alsa driver of course :>
00:08<Ovron>pharaun: well, there should be a way around it, to make it "properly"
00:08<pharaun>Ovron: yeah i really want to get it to as few opper in python to make it even faster you know, but still i guess
00:08<pharaun>its going to still be shitload faster than the current PIL code anyway
00:09<Ovron>well, I managed to murder python in this VM
00:09<Ovron>*restores snapshot*
00:09<pharaun>lulz what did you do?
00:09<Ovron>I don't even know anymore, it couldn't load any package anymore :D
00:09<pharaun>nice job! :D
00:10<Ovron>yep, pretty proud
00:10<mbreslin>i have to poop
00:10-!-techhelper1 [~techhelpe@] has joined #linode
00:11<snubby>and i'm really indiana jones :>
00:14<robinetd>cool! 20 kBps!
00:14*robinetd cries.
00:14<Ovron>pharaun: mhm pylab; numpy+scipy+ipython+matplotlib
00:15<mbreslin>that's an assload of math
00:15<pharaun>Ovron: hehe nice
00:15<robinetd>I wonder how many assloads is equivalent to a truckload.
00:16<Ovron>make an experiment, and find out.
00:16<robinetd>wolfram doesn't know. :(
00:17<robinetd>Terrible. Nothing on TV. I'm going to sleep. :|
00:18<art>robinetd well disney channel
00:18<art>got nice cartoons
00:18<robinetd>That's great, but I'm not 7 years old.
00:19<@heckman>convert assload to truckload
00:19<art>robinetd well what is it that u want to see on tv?
00:19<robinetd>Something gorey.
00:19<pharaun>Ovron: well it nuked 2 python loop so can't be terribly bad
00:19<pharaun>let's see
00:19<art>like hentai?
00:19<icepup>Wow, while trying to get wsgi + Flask working on Apache2 with wsgi_mod, I failed, and then somehow managed to kill my ability to serve my default static apache site. it seems to be using the sites-available/default, and ignoring my sites-available/
00:20<robinetd>Nope, not a weaboo either.
00:20<Ovron>burn weeaboos burn >:(
00:20<pharaun>Ovron: still "slow" but its quite a bit faster than the default impl, could be better
00:20<robinetd>Ovron: Mighty sephiroths can of mace will save him!
00:20<pharaun>if it did the damn mean properly
00:20<art>robinetd do u you know open source control panels do they come with pop and mail deamons already or I got to install them first?
00:20<Ovron>pharaun: now that you have a prototype, implement it in C, there's your speed :p
00:21<robinetd>art: No idea, I don't use control panels.
00:21<art>hmmm they are so handy for newbie like me
00:21<pharaun>Ovron: heh pfft, i'm going to do the multi-core thing first spread that shit out then if its still not good enough, start working on a pure c impl
00:21<art>once I can install one
00:22-!-mcinerney [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:22-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:22<Ovron>pharaun: well, at least you *have* cores to spread it across, imagine people stuck with a two-core system :p
00:22<pharaun>Ovron: >:P
00:22*robinetd raises his hand.
00:22<pharaun>Ovron: the initial impl in c that i got this algo from is a single-threaded one anyway
00:23<pharaun>hence wanting to do some of this stuff in python just to better learn the various algo and then re-impl the speed-critical stuff in c
00:23-!-mcinerney [] has joined #linode
00:28-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
00:28<icepup>and oh i should mention, there's nothing in the log file either
00:29<pharaun>Ovron: heh, >:(
00:29<Ovron>icepup: check your sites-enabled directory, a2ensite otherwise
00:30<Ovron>pharaun: matplotlib compiled this time >:(
00:30<icepup>i ran a2ensite (again, since it was run a few days ago), and it says the site is already enabled. i see it in the sites-enabled directory too
00:30<Ovron>icepup: apache2ctl -S
00:30<Ovron>will show you how apache interprets the vhosts
00:31-!-SputnikSeven [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:32<icepup>Ovron, thank you for that lesson. has the wrong ip in my virtual host. really stupido
00:32<art>linux is really mad thing
00:33<art>most even basic things take time
00:33<icepup>art, so true
00:35<pharaun>oh damn that image went om' noms noms on my memory
00:35<art>it should be like get mail server get ftp
00:35<pharaun>still completed pretty quickly
00:35<art>and done
00:35<pharaun>4,000 out of 76,000 in a few minutes... not too bad, MOAR SPEED needed
00:36<Ovron>pharaun: step #2: implement your algo in CUDA/openCL if it is possible
00:36<art>or best make few secure standard web servers scripts
00:36<art>to install with one click
00:36<pharaun>Ovron: <3
00:37<pharaun>Ovron: well to be honest, i'm just going to be going through a wide range of algo to figure out which one has the highest matching with the lowest false positive/negative and then go with that
00:37<pharaun>and re-implement it into.... whatever
00:38<Ovron>I wonder if there's any good profiler for python; goes onto todo-list
00:40<pharaun>yeah that would be really helpful for this actually
00:40<pharaun>ruby had one but it was like 800% slowdown
00:44<art>I am using nano to edit conf files and when I open them they are blank
00:44<PKKid>Uhhg: I think I finished my kickstart setup.. ;) --
00:44<art>any idea how to open them properly?
00:44<PKKid>NOw to actually test this blog works on the new server.. dun dun dun.
00:44<art>PKKid congrats
00:44<art>linux is mads
00:44<@heckman>art: means the files are empty/don't exist yet
00:45<pharaun>check typo on filename too ;-p
00:45<pharaun>happens to me all the time
00:45<art>heckman i just installed ftp server and checked for typos
00:45<@heckman>ew ftp?
00:45<@heckman>What's wrong with you?
00:45<pharaun>heckman: thank you <3
00:45<art>what u mean?
00:45<art>ftp is great
00:45<pharaun>ftp for gods sake
00:45<@heckman>For getting compromised.
00:46<PKKid>sshfs is the best thing evar when you really need it.
00:46<@heckman>SFTP ftw
00:46<art>ssh is crap
00:46<art>command line
00:46<@heckman>Plus, it comes pre-configured on every Linode because it's part of the OpenSSH daemon.
00:46<PKKid>lol "ssh is crap" ;)
00:46<art>yes its def crap
00:46<@heckman>Dude, when I use windows...there's so many times where I would love to open a terminal and do stuff in bash.
00:46<art>windows got cmd
00:46<@heckman>Yeah, and it sucks.
00:46<@heckman>Command Prompt fails horribly.
00:47<art>for which tasks?
00:47<PKKid>heckman, cygwin with console2 will get you a fairly close setup to Terminal
00:47<@heckman>PKKid: Without much work.
00:47<mbreslin>art: for which tasks? anything besides 'cd' and 'dir'
00:47<art>sftp ok that is more secure?
00:47<@heckman>Wanting to do something via command is because I want to extert less effort.
00:47<mbreslin>pretty much
00:47<@heckman>Yes, it is.
00:47<art>I love GUI
00:47<PKKid>heckman, Everything on Windows takes alot of work.. :)
00:47<art>command line is outdated
00:48<@heckman>Not really
00:48<mbreslin>lame troll is lame
00:48-!-Thorn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:48<art>it is outdated
00:48<art>I had robotron
00:48<art>with it
00:48<@heckman>art: Do you understand how GUIs on a server make it less efficient?
00:48<art>and 86, 88 with command line :)
00:48<art>heckman I believe in visualisation of tasks
00:49<pharaun>i use irssi, mutt, finch, and crapload of console app
00:49<pharaun>i almost never create GUI app
00:49-!-maxexcloo [] has joined #linode
00:49<pharaun>hell half of my panorama image processing apps are purely console too
00:49<art>well people are different
00:49<art>so its cool
00:49<mbreslin>gui is perfectly fine for desktop
00:49<@heckman>Yeah I know, some people are definitely wrong.
00:49<mbreslin>but if you think linode is going to be your desktop
00:49<Ovron>I'mma run GUI apps on the compute cluster at work
00:49<maxexcloo>Hey, I just set up a mail server on Arch Linux using this guide and was wondering if someone could help me out with a simple (I assume) problem
00:49<mbreslin>linode, yourdoingitwrong
00:50<art>linode is great service
00:50<art>its fast and cheap
00:50<@heckman>My lungs...argh
00:50<maxexcloo>When I make an account using PostfixAdmin, it doesn't create any folders apart from the Inbox folder (I want it to make the Drafts, Spam, Trash, etc folders)
00:50<maxexcloo>Anyone have any ideas?
00:50<pharaun>i don't use much gui for my desktop
00:50<@heckman>I prefer the term competitively priced.
00:50<pharaun>my docs are vim & latex
00:51<@heckman>maxexcloo: Sorry, I've not personally set up a mail server. =(
00:51<pharaun>gui for um, browser, spreadsheets, game, some image-editing, a few other, rest are all console >:P
00:51<maxexcloo>heckman, Thanks anyway :)
00:51<@heckman>Someone else here may have.
00:51<pharaun>maxexcloo: i think that's more of scripting or imap server, you'll need procmail to like sort/filter it out, or if you have imap to serve out your mail, they will sometime make those folders also
00:52<pharaun>just an fyi
00:52<pharaun>postfix by default will just drop your mail in one directory/etc for each user unless you do filtering, etc...
00:52<maxexcloo>Any tips/guides you know about for that
00:52<pharaun>check the linode library?
00:52<pharaun>the last time i setup a email server was in 2006 :3
00:52<pharaun>and i haven't touched it since, been running solid
00:52-!-akerl [] has joined #linode
00:52<art>yes seems runnin server take at least 2 experienced admins
00:53<art>plus some backup
00:53*heckman is the only admin of his 3 Linodes
00:53<art>its all logical
00:53<@heckman>No it's not.
00:53<Ovron>I try to have at least 11 admins per linux install.
00:53<art>just takes alot of time to learn it all
00:53<@heckman>Depends how receptive you are
00:54<art>I mainly worked in finance
00:54<art>no coding or anything like it well some macros
00:54<art>in excel
00:54<mbreslin>oh you're the shoemaker from estonia
00:55<mbreslin>i remember this troll
00:55<art>I understand how things work in linux its learning the language
00:55<pharaun>Ovron: WEAK SAUCE
00:55<art>takes time
00:55<akerl>ok, so i'm having a noob moment. I had ssh setup with keys, and used ssh-agent to store the passwords. but I just rebuilt my server and for the life of me can't get ssh-agent setup again. any pointers? running ubuntu 10.10
00:55<Ovron>pharaun: ? :O
00:55<art>mbreslin name calling indicates lack of IQ
00:55<mbreslin>so does trolling
00:55<art>aka unability to form a coherent logical sentense
00:56<mbreslin>you probably meant sentences, troll.
00:56<pharaun>Ovron: heh, i had a good comeback then i failed
00:56<SirSquidness>I can call people names in a perfectly coherent and logical sentence.
00:56<Ovron>akerl: ssh-add <keystuff>?
00:56<maxexcloo>Can't find anything on Procmail :|
00:56<Ovron>pharaun: \o/
00:56<pharaun>maxexcloo: procmail can be really rough tbh
00:56<akerl>Ovron: "Could not open a connection to your authentication agent."
00:56<art>mbreslin how did u learned unix I thought it does require some logic
00:56<art>do share
00:57<maxexcloo>pharaun, Anything simple I could use>
00:57<mbreslin>i did learned fasted
00:57<art>weak sarcasm
00:57<mbreslin>i did am quick learnered
00:57<art>still an attempt
00:57<@heckman>I'm 20, and I played with Linux at home from like 12 - 16. Around 16 was when I really got in to it.
00:57<pharaun>maxexcloo: let me look, i may have some links
00:57<Ovron>pharaun: I am about to set my computer on fire; matplotlib is still not working; I cheered too early. I can't get it to compile. *rage*
00:57<art>mocking is not u strenght mbreslin
00:57<pharaun>Ovron: i thought you said it compiled!
00:57<mbreslin>i ran slackware in 1992 or or so
00:57<Ovron>pharaun: that was scipy
00:58<mbreslin>you weren't even working at the shoe factory yet
00:58<Ovron>pharaun: and later a script said the installation of matplotlib was successful, but was it fuck.
00:58<pharaun>Ovron: >:(
00:58<art>mbreslin lol u logic and sense of humor escaped all together? too much coding effects?
00:59*heckman sips his tea
00:59<art>gui is nice
00:59<art>and ms made fortune on it
00:59<@heckman>For Desktops...
00:59<pharaun>maxexcloo: ?
00:59<pharaun>try that
00:59<mbreslin>art: /join #english
00:59<Ovron>mbreslin: isn't that channel... in english? ;p
00:59<maxexcloo>Thanks :)
01:00-!-mathew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:00<mbreslin>i don't know what they speak in shoe factory land
01:00<art>mbreslin come on I worked in IT company guys there were more cheerfull
01:00<art>cheer up mate
01:00<pharaun>what is *this* shoe factory land >_>
01:00<mbreslin>there are no it companies in estonia
01:00<mbreslin>they make shoes
01:00-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
01:01<art>mbreslin I see u got some personal grudge towards estonia, thats fine cause it stays only in u head
01:01<mbreslin>i understand every fifth sentence of yours
01:01<art>u learning
01:01<mbreslin>the rest is cobbler speak
01:01<pharaun>mbreslin: how is estonia and shoe factory different from you in the tomato-paste factory land ?
01:02<mbreslin>pharaun: 1) stop defending that troll
01:02<@heckman>Pro-Tip: You cannot win against the troll.
01:02<mbreslin>2) i have no idea the professions in that country i completely made up the meme
01:02<mbreslin>but i'm sticking with it
01:02<akerl>ok, so I can "eval `ssh-agent`" to start it, "ssh-add keyname" to add it, but none of that persists if during a reboot. is there a better way than adding those two lines to run on each login?
01:02<art>mbreslin u mean stop questioning your low IQ sentences?
01:03<pharaun>TROLL FIGHT! PROCEED
01:03<Ovron>lets get ready to ruuuumble!
01:03<art>coders sometimes are so childish
01:03<art>and sensetive
01:03<Ovron>in the left corner, a supposed shoe maker from estonia. In the right corner, a tomato-paste maker from urmomland. FIIIIIGHT!
01:03<art>urmomland where is that?
01:03<pharaun>Ovron: many internets to you sir
01:04<mbreslin>if i wanted to win i'd just make him use a command line irc client
01:04<mbreslin>he'd never be able to get here
01:04<mwalling>mbreslin: picloud?
01:04<SleePy>I thought it was shoes from russia
01:04<art>hey sleepy :)
01:05<art>tomato paste usually good in italy
01:05<pharaun>Ovron: you know what, its a damn shame i can't just spawn my picture process into picloud, the whole uploading 20+ gig of data would take longer than the actual processing!
01:05<Ovron>pharaun: heh :)
01:05<mbreslin>mwalling: i wussed out, i'm doing it from home, it took 27 minutes for 1000 feeds
01:05<Ovron>pharaun: easy: build a compute cluster at home!
01:05<SleePy>Set it up to upload on demand?
01:05<Ovron>pharaun: or see if you can CUDAify your algo!
01:06<Ovron>pharaun: and then just get a few nvidia teslas!
01:06<mbreslin>mwalling: so 63 hours or something if i did the whole 150k but i'm trying to widdle it down first
01:06<pharaun>Ovron: i think *some* algo might be CUDAable, but i don't know if all of them will be, but i'll probably know more once i found an algo i like
01:06<SleePy>User requests image.. Doesn't exist so script takes over, redirects user, script outputs image and afterwards uploads the requested file to the cloud, image exists from then on?
01:07<Ovron>pharaun: ah, fair enough
01:07<pharaun>SleePy: oh, i'm just doing image duplicate finding on my internal archive ~20gig or so 76,000 images, and was just taking advantage of it to play/experiment with several image algo for comparing and matching up duplicate images
01:07-!-art [] has quit [Quit: art]
01:08<SleePy>Was suggesting an alt route to uploading allimages :P
01:08<pharaun>SleePy: but if it was a website, that would work :)
01:08<pharaun>tho i probably would use amazon s3 + picloud or something else
01:08<mbreslin>mwalling: there are many things in the list that i wouldn't want to waste picloud time on, for example:
01:09<pharaun>.... mbreslin and why is *THIS* on your rss list?
01:09<mbreslin>the trick is how do i filter the junk from the news
01:09<mbreslin>pharaun: because it's a massive list compiled from all of the major lists i could find
01:10<mbreslin>suprfeeder/syndic8 etc
01:10<pharaun>mbreslin: and why did you do that?
01:10<mbreslin>you can't tell to "not give me shit"
01:11<mbreslin>because just orginizing the list into realtime vs not will get rid of most of the cruft
01:11-!-maushu__ [] has joined #linode
01:11<mbreslin>but before that there are huge domain blocks i can remove such as*
01:12<pharaun>mbreslin: that's fine but my question is
01:12<mbreslin>the hard part is random one timers like that vampiric crap
01:12<pharaun>what are you trying to achieve with this... list? you are not going to be reading it all are you?
01:12<@heckman>Way to make art rage, guys.
01:12<pharaun>heckman: HEY IT wasn't me!
01:12<mbreslin>i want a news ticker of only news sources that are real time enabled, for that i first need to know which ones are, there are no lists like this
01:13<Ovron>s/guys/guy/ heckman
01:13<mbreslin>they don't exist
01:13<@heckman>Guilty by association.
01:13<pharaun>heckman: >:(
01:13<pharaun>mbreslin: oh, well then can't you just go out and search for um... news source? slashdot, ycombinator, reddit, digg, ..... there's others
01:14<@heckman>Pseudoviking is not shaken by your puny amounts of rage.
01:14<SleePy>Anyone bored :P
01:14<mbreslin>pharaun: and most of them aren't realtime enabled
01:14*pharaun roots Pseudoviking linode
01:14<Ovron>I already setuped caek in his linode
01:14<pharaun>mbreslin: and *these* in your 150k list?
01:15<mbreslin>the list is pretty comprehensive
01:15<mbreslin>from what i can tell i mean i haven't read all 150k
01:15<pharaun>mbreslin: so you want real time news, but you also want to filter out shit you don't want?
01:15<Ovron>perhaps you should; apply only the highest quality assurance filtering!
01:15<pharaun>seems like it would be easier to do a white list, and pick out the SHIT you want instead of the other way around
01:16<pharaun>yeah only personally viewing/reading each feed will you be able to assure the highest quality!
01:16<pharaun>or somehow create an AI
01:16<mbreslin>if you me to put it in google/wikipedia/whatever grand vision terms:
01:16<mbreslin>i want a scrolling webpage of EVERY single real time enabled current events source
01:17<pharaun>mbreslin: that scrolling webpage would be scrolling at LIGHT SPEED!
01:17-!-PKKid [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:17<mbreslin>no because the realtime part hasn't really went mainstream yet
01:17<pharaun>Holy shit! it went Plaid!
01:18<mbreslin>so it's like for every 100 news sources one might be rsscloud/pubsubhubbub enablrd
01:18<pharaun>ok then can't you just filter it all out
01:18-!-maushu_ [~maushu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:18<pharaun>and just get the list of rsscloud/push stuff
01:18<pharaun>do it manually
01:18<Ovron>or randomize 1 out of every 100, and hope for the best
01:18<pharaun>would be as accurate probably
01:19<mbreslin>i guess i'm stupid but i still don't see what you're saying at all
01:19<mbreslin>you have to start with a list
01:19<mbreslin>just throwing cnn ap whatever in there isn't going to cut it
01:19<pharaun>mbreslin: and yes you do have a said list
01:20<mbreslin>so the first step is to filter out anything non rsscloud/push
01:20<mbreslin>then filter out anything non-news
01:20<mbreslin>then you're done
01:20<pharaun>the first step is easy, second step, good luck
01:20<mbreslin>well the second step would be harder if rsscloud/push were more common
01:20<mbreslin>it's not
01:21<pharaun>tbh, just filter rsscloud/push
01:21<pharaun>then filter out some domains then manually check the rest
01:21<pharaun>should do the trick
01:21<mbreslin>it's what i planned to do!
01:21<mbreslin>there was no disagreement
01:21<Ovron>when is this going to happen? ;o
01:21<pharaun>then what's the problem with the 63 hour thing then?
01:22<mbreslin>there is no problem i was just saying that's how long it's going to take
01:22<mbreslin>to filter push/cloud
01:22<mbreslin>from the list
01:22<mbreslin>each domain/rss.xml has to be downloaded and parsed
01:22<mbreslin>it took 27 minutes to do 1000
01:23<Ovron>and you're running how many concurrent downloaders?
01:23*heckman bobs his head to the trance music --
01:23<mbreslin>Ovron: it started to lag out after 10
01:23<Ovron>hmm, mkey
01:23<mbreslin>i don't know if my cable is more gimp than i thought or it's an mtu issue or what
01:24<mbreslin>so doing 10 at a time took 27 minutes for 1k
01:24<mbreslin>this is basically my end result
01:25<pharaun>mbreslin: can't you just throw it on a linode or something?
01:25<mbreslin>only with sources that update in real time
01:25<mbreslin>pharaun: i can split up the list yeah
01:26<pharaun>er why?
01:26<mbreslin>well i have 2 linodes + my home connection
01:26<mbreslin>so i will split it 3 ways
01:26<pharaun>just throw the whole thing on the linode you got what... gobs of bandwidth compared to your home
01:26<pharaun>well go do that i guess if you want, would be moar fast
01:26<mbreslin>i guess
01:27<mbreslin>my home connection is reasonably fast at 3-4MB/second
01:28<pharaun>B or b ?
01:29<pharaun>thats decent, should be able to do more than 10 really
01:29<mbreslin>that's what i thought
01:29<Ovron>what language/lib and OS are you doing this on?
01:30<pharaun>ah win, didn't they clamp down the connections
01:31<pharaun>needed like a registery key to fix that
01:31<pharaun>did you ever run bittorrent on that box cos that would be a good example of the kind of connections/strain that you would be doing (CRAPLOAD of connection, little bit of data from each)
01:31<pharaun>not 100% accurate analogy but its close enough really
01:31<Ovron>run a linux VM and use bridged networking, and run it in that
01:31*snubby deovronizes Ovron with ozone gas
01:31<Ovron>>:( *
01:32<mbreslin>i can get 3.6MB/sec on a well seeded torrent
01:32<pharaun>mbreslin: and how many connection/peer for one of those
01:32<pharaun>mbreslin: and no the speed does not matter, what i wanted to know was did those torrent have crapload of connection/peers
01:32<mbreslin>let me see my utorrent settings
01:33<mbreslin>i don't know what they happened to be at the time but checking now it's set at 100 connections per torrent
01:33<pharaun>because if you can do those fine then you should be able to do this rss thing just fine
01:33<mbreslin>i don't really get why the slowdown maybe it's my python code
01:33<pharaun>100 connect is a chuckle fuck
01:33<Ovron>well... not really
01:33<pharaun>try thousands
01:34<Ovron>what is costing time here is probably connecting, and not managing the many sockets
01:34<Ovron>you're not loading a new interpreter for each request are you? :p
01:35<pharaun>OH GOD
01:35<pharaun>please don't say so
01:35<mbreslin>i'm just looping through a file and using urlib to grab the .rss
01:36<mbreslin>it's all in the same script
01:37<pharaun>so you are only doing this in one single running script>
01:37<Ovron>isn't the connecting part blocking in urllib?
01:37<pharaun>or do you have multiple file for each scripts
01:37<pharaun>Ovron: i dunno, not all that familiar with the GIL
01:37<Ovron>are you running each worker in its own thread?
01:37<pharaun>but i think *some* i/o based modules will release the GIL on I/o wait
01:37<pharaun>but the urllib... not sure
01:38<mbreslin>after that talk earlier about the gil
01:38<mbreslin>there are 10 threads using the same file
01:39<pharaun>you might just be screwed by the gil there
01:39<pharaun>depending on if the urllib will release the gil or not on a i/o wait
01:39<Ovron>(protip: if you're not running 10 threads, that each calls urlopen, you're being blocked on each connection)
01:40<pharaun>since this is primary probably going to be slow down by "connecting" step, since the data is pretty small
01:40<pharaun>you are going to want to have as many connection as you can manage
01:40<pharaun>which means you want non-blocking i/o
01:41-!-Hushar [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
01:41<pharaun>but this also depends on if the urllib will keep or release the GIL lock upon connection/ i/o wait
01:41-!-icepup [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:42<mbreslin>Ovron: each thread calls a function which has a try urlopen blah in it
01:42<pharaun>mbreslin: yes, that does not matter
01:42<pharaun>its still blocking *on* the connection
01:42-!-ericwan [] has quit [Quit: ericwan]
01:42<pharaun>which mean it just screwed all of your other threads
01:43<mbreslin>then i will need to do multiprocess which i've never done
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01:43<pharaun>that or see/find a urllib that does not block on connecting
01:43<pharaun>dunno on that one myself
01:44<Ovron>curl <3
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01:45<mbreslin>i'm uploading the script unchanged and a text with the whole 140k to linode and will start it when i go to sleep
01:45<mbreslin>see what happens
01:45<pharaun>it won't change a thing
01:45<pharaun>cos of your friend the GIL
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01:47<MJCS>anyone know of a free alternative to ?
01:47<MJCS>preferable one that i could host on my linode
01:48<Ovron>free in what sense? if in cost, livestream offers a free account type.
01:49<MJCS>yeah but ad supported
01:50<MJCS>and the quality sucks
01:50<Ovron> is an alternative
01:50<Ovron>this uses quite a bit of bandwidth, depending on viewers, if you're planning on having it on a linode ^^
01:51<pharaun>is this like for self-broadcasting tv shows/etc on the internet ?
01:51<pharaun>never got into that area
01:51<Ovron>yep, and many use it for streaming games
01:52<@heckman>I watched one guy play super mario for like...4 hours one night.
01:52<Ovron>a friend streamed from the korean beta of Tera Online; quite popular these streams.
01:54<akerl>i'm looking for advice on setting up ssh-agent for my keys on ubuntu 10.10. I've tried pretty much every guide i could find, but have not been able to get it working
01:54<Ovron>akerl: what's the problem? I thought you wrote you got it working earlier?
01:55<akerl>i can get it setup with keychain so that keychain will store the key and password, but it's not persistent. i have to manually add it every reboot
01:55<pharaun>Ovron: multi-process is success
01:55<Ovron>pharaun: \o/
01:55<pharaun>its now om' noms noms on 4 cores now for test, let's see how it does when i unleash it to all cores
01:55<Ovron> akerl
01:56<pharaun>still need to figure out how i'll do the process monitor
01:56<Ovron>power to the cores!
01:56<pharaun>indeed, ALL POWER AHEAD!
01:56<pharaun>let's see
01:57<pharaun>99.0% total usage cross all 24 cores!
01:57<pharaun>some dips here and there as jobs gets re-generated but, those should hopefully be straight forward to iron out
01:58<pharaun>Ovron: thefuck, it just went down to 4 processes and is sitting there, this will require more analysis but still, promising start
01:58<Ovron>any idea on IPC?
01:59<pharaun>yeah going to need to do some IPC for feeding more data to each processes and etc
01:59<pharaun> >:(
01:59<pharaun>that SHIT
02:00<akerl>Ovron: that works if I'm calling it from a script i guess, but if i run that script, and then try ssh-add, it gives me "Could not open a connection to your authentication agent."
02:00<pharaun>Ovron: but still promising start as you can see \o/
02:01<Ovron>pharaun: cool ^^
02:01<Ovron>akerl: how did you solve that error the first time?
02:02<Ovron>pharaun: hmm, dbuslib in python? ^^
02:02<pharaun>dbuslib ? oh the dbus stuff?
02:02<akerl>i installed keychain and added a line to start it in .bashr. which works for persisting the ssh-agent between reboots, but it doesn't actually save the pass for my keys. so i'm still entering it every time
02:02<pharaun>could, i think the multiprocess stuff already has some ipc stuff in it so going to try that first
02:03<pharaun>that's normal, if you don't want to enter you'll need to gen keycert without password
02:03<Ovron>akerl: add the calls to the same file, after the line where you start the "keychain"?
02:03<pharaun>but that's not secure/etc
02:04<pharaun>but with a ssh-agent should only happen like once, boom done
02:04<Ovron>pharaun: oh what multiprocess stuff? I thought you just forked off processes?
02:04<Ovron>oh that multiprocess
02:05<pharaun>yeah basically a nice python stuff over fork()
02:06<pharaun>Ovron: what i did was this <--- that worked great as you could see on the initial burst it used all 24 core then a bunch started to die and settle down at 4 so i need to figure out wtf
02:06<pharaun>Ovron: cos i could just feed it a giant list of files to process
02:06<Ovron>ah, without looking at that; did the workers gets assigned an initial workload, or were they fetching next job whenever they were ready?
02:06<Ovron>get *
02:07<pharaun>that i don't know, that would depend on how, data) does its work to be honest
02:07<Ovron>because one explanation why some were done before the rest would be if they were assigned the smaller files, by chance - just stretching out now :p
02:08<pharaun>Ovron: yeah that was my initial thought then i went and hit the good ol ps aux | grep
02:08<pharaun>only got like 4-5 back
02:10<@heckman>So just farted...I think I melted a hole in my chair
02:11<pharaun>heckman: spicy?
02:11<akerl>Ovron: awesome, keychain running smoothly now. thanks muchly
02:11<pharaun>akerl: \o/
02:11<@heckman>No, rancid
02:11<Ovron>akerl: :)
02:11<pharaun>heckman: if i hear on the news tomorrow that a company collapsed, i'll know who it was
02:11<Ovron>thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion heckman ;p
02:11<pharaun>you! killing off all of the staff
02:11<@heckman>Nah, it'll disperse
02:12<@heckman>Not toxic in low doses
02:12<pharaun>*enough* ?
02:12<@heckman>Only burned my nose hairs off.
02:12<@heckman>So it shouldn't kill anyone.
02:12<pharaun>alright, acceptable
02:12<pharaun>i don't want you to be murdering our linode staffs!
02:12<pharaun>i like my linode!
02:13<pharaun>quick! open a ticket
02:13<pharaun>"can someone please take a look at this node, i think it has been affected by heckman's fart!"
02:13<@heckman>s/fart/mustard gas/
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02:14<Ovron>is that a troll oO
02:14<pharaun>oh they exist
02:14<pharaun>there is mod_ftp fyi
02:15<Ovron>16MB Linode
02:15<pharaun>I totally missed that
02:16<avenj>16mb ought to be enough for anyone
02:16<pharaun>it's insecure and how the majority of sites are hacked (followed closely by WordPress installs)
02:16<pharaun>nice burn
02:17<pharaun>is it sad that i can identify forum software just by its look
02:17-!-warewolf [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:18<Ovron>heh, most are horribly generic
02:19<pharaun>even customized, can usually identify
02:20<Ovron>yeah, of course - but some at least try to make it a bit unique
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02:20<pharaun>some of em are pretty well done actually
02:20<pharaun>maybe its just me but i do kind of like forums myself, atleast the *well takencare* ones such as say SA
02:20-!-Perihelion [] has quit [Quit: Well, that's enough of that.]
02:20<Ovron> <-- I quite like those; dungeon defenders
02:21<pharaun>oh nice
02:21<Ovron>sure, you can still tell from a distance what it is; but it looks nice
02:21<pharaun>yeah, still n
02:21<pharaun>bingo, thought so
02:21<Ovron>it is funny how a small indie game has nicer forums, than some upcoming triple-A mmorpg titles
02:22<pharaun>but yeah its nice one :)
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02:26<hachi>any issues in dallas?
02:27-!-techhelper1 [~techhelpe@] has joined #linode
02:27<@heckman>!mtr-newark dallas
02:27<linbot>heckman: [mtr] dallas: not found
02:27<linbot>heckman: [mtr] 12 hops, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms
02:28<linbot>pharaun: [mtr] 12 hops, no loss, last hop average RTT was 39.4ms (urmom)
02:28<hachi>I just lost connection to a box that isn't mine in dallas... but my other box in dallas is still up
02:28<pharaun>probably network issue
02:28<pharaun>if not outta to be seeing emails/tickets
02:28-!-lauanana [] has quit []
02:28<@heckman>I'm not experiencing any issues. Network monitoring tools all green
02:29<hachi>I wish routing told me which node this is on....
02:30<hachi>I'm trying to reach it both by a global routable and a private network, both are gone
02:30<hachi>I'm going to assume the vm just halted
02:30<pharaun>i would think the manager would have that info, been a while since i've been on it
02:30<@heckman>Open a ticket with MTR...
02:30<@heckman>And yes, Linode manager has the host
02:30<@heckman>Bottom left corner of the Dashboard for the Linode
02:31<hachi>yeah, sadly I'm not the box owner... I'm the owner of the box that is still up in this pair
02:31<hachi>my cohort isn't answering his phone
02:32<akerl>2 questions: assuming I'm only hosting a few lightweight personal sites, would i see a dramatic boost in performance by switching from php-cgi to php-fcgi? And i've been using ab to stress test my server. is there a better/preferred way to measure how solid my setup is?
02:32<pharaun>probably yes on cgi->fcgi, and on ab, i don't know, ab seems popular
02:33<pharaun>akerl: another thing is might want to look into like APC, and other caches if your stuff can use it, outta to help too
02:33<Ovron>akerl: you're probably hitting a bottleneck unless you run ab locally; if you run it locally, it should give you a rough idea of what it can handle
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02:34<akerl>gotcha. is there a rough estimate to how i should be configuring ab? I've essentially been dropping in a (for me) ridiculous number of requests and concurrent requests, under the theory that if it can handle that, it can handle normal traffic
02:35<Ovron>sounds like a plan
02:35<pharaun>i think i'm going to proceed to head to bed, getting late and had a decent day on this python project
02:35<pharaun>nite everyone o/
02:35<Ovron>o/ g'night
02:35<amitz>Ovron: please...running with just ab is an incredible feat.
02:35<@heckman>See ya pharaun
02:36<amitz>note pharaun
02:36<Ovron>amitz: sorry?
02:36<amitz>Ovron: nevermind, I pushed the joke too much :-p
02:36<amitz>running with just ab -? crawling :-p
02:36<Ovron>oh you...
02:36<@heckman>mustard gas
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02:57<@heckman>You just failed it
03:01<magicalfruit>I think the fact that we saw it means he passed.
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03:02<celthunder>what was he testing?
03:03-!-gleep [] has quit []
03:05<@heckman>Your guess is as good as mine
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03:13<@heckman>IPv4 -- ETE 27 days
03:14<megatron27>I officially hate wimax
03:15<warren>megatron27: which provider?
03:17<megatron27>Malaysian ISP
03:19<@heckman>WiMax worked for me back when I lived in PA
03:19<@heckman>Worked beautifully on my phone
03:19<warren>Clear 4G (a.k.a. Sprint 4G, Roadrunner 4G, Comcast 4G, etc.) is pretty terrible
03:19<@heckman>I never had an issue with it
03:19<@heckman>I guess it depends on your area.
03:20<warren>it wasn't extremely unreliable?
03:21<megatron27>when I was living less than a km from the base station it was fine
03:21<warren>here it dies very often, usually just a glitch, but sometimes dead for hours
03:21<megatron27>now I'm around 3-4km
03:21<warren>and signal strength doesn't seem to be matter, full strength
03:22<@heckman>I never had that type of issue
03:22<@heckman>Sounds like a local provider failure.
03:23<@heckman>Sprint / Clear in my area was awesome.
03:23<warren>how densely populated is that area in PA?
03:23<megatron27>what's better, a treadmill or a gym membership
03:24<megatron27>or a Linode 1440 :D
03:24<megatron27>stupid weekends
03:24<synapt>Protip: Sprint coverage across PA is horrid
03:24<@heckman>Wasn't in my area
03:24<megatron27>it's probably bigger now
03:24<@heckman>Sprint in my area was stellar
03:24<synapt>Despite what they (and AT&T claim) their PA coverage is pretty faulty, verizon and T-Mobile tend to be decent
03:24<@heckman>I went up north (bout two hours) and it sucked hard core.
03:25<synapt>(Then again verizon basically owns PA itself so)
03:25<@heckman>T-Mobile = FAIL in my area.
03:25<@heckman>old area
03:25<@heckman>Seeing as I moved from PA
03:25<synapt>I've had pretty much flawless coverage with T-Mobile between here and jersey, and that was back going close to 3 years ago now
03:25<@heckman>Reading, PA had terrible T-Mobile coverage
03:26<@heckman>I know because all the brats in high school used to rage
03:26<warren>I have 4G on 3 of my family phones plus a wireless broadband card.
03:26<warren>but I rarely turn 4G on because it is so unreliable
03:26<warren>3G doesn't cut out randomly
03:27<@heckman>Just sounds unlucky
03:27<warren>also 4G is often slower than 3G here
03:27<warren>much slower
03:27<megatron27>yeah, over here if a telco gets a 3G license you wont' be given a 4G license
03:27<@heckman>Sprint was awesome in my area. With clear and stuff.
03:27<megatron27>so you'll never have the option of falling back on a 3G connection if your 4G connection fails
03:27<@heckman>That's kind of retarded
03:27<@heckman>Trade countries
03:27<warren>I even tried 4G even before the 4G phones came out, very few people were using the network then. It was FAST when it worked but it would randomly die several times a day.
03:28<@heckman>The frequency of the 4G is part of the issue
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03:28<warren>Now it is both slow and unreliable.
03:28<megatron27>HSDPA is awesome
03:28<warren>LTE is better than Sprint's 4G, but I'm not switching
03:29<warren>because I have wifi everywhere I go
03:29<warren>and Sprint 4G is still WAY cheaper than the other companies
03:29<@heckman>warren: Sprint may go LTe.
03:29<warren>will that work through their existing CDMA towers?
03:30<@heckman>I'm not sure of the mods needed. But I know Clear has expressed interest in rolling out LTe.
03:30<@heckman>Not sure if there are plans to do so.
03:30<megatron27>is LTe better than Wimax
03:30<warren>megatron27: yes
03:31<megatron27>voice and data or just data
03:32<warren>megatron27: IIRC, only data + voip
03:32<megatron27>thanks man
03:33<megatron27>ROFL RIP JUSTIN BIEBER is trending
03:34<megatron27>rofl -!/BoyInTheWell/status/26389271984209920
03:34<warren>Any other sysadmins using spamassassin here? (That I didn't already harass.)
03:35<megatron27>are you using spam assassin for blog comments or email
03:35<warren>megatron27: email
03:35<warren>megatron27: blog comments it isn't designed for... some people are using it for that though
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03:37<megatron27>okay point taken
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03:42<@heckman>I am getting spam in my inbox again
03:42<@heckman>Means I fixed what was broken
03:44<@heckman>I kinda wish allowed for nested if statements for rules
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03:49<warren>heckman: do you run your own personal domain for mail?
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03:59<@heckman>warren: nope
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04:13<@heckman>warren: effort -- If Google wants to spend their cycles reading my e-mail, all the power to them.
04:13<@heckman>It's overly unimpressive.
04:15<warren>I'm really tempted to move all my domains to gmail.
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04:15<warren>but then I wouldn't have anything to obsessively work on like spamassassin
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04:20<purrdeta>I have some of my stuff on an Exchange server (ew yeah, I know) and some on my linode
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04:33<@heckman>So sleep?
04:35<megatron27>have you ever been tired but not sleepy
04:35<@heckman>Ah, exhausted. Yeah
04:35<warren>heckman: I'm glad you're giving great customer support here.
04:36<@heckman>warren: community channel.
04:36<@heckman>Think of me as simply a moderator.
04:36<megatron27>I wonder whether Linode would entertain a 50 hour phone call like Zappos
04:36<warren>megatron27: eh?
04:37<megatron27>Zappos has a reputation for entertaining any phone call whatsoever
04:37<megatron27>there's a story about people calling them for pizza once
04:37<megatron27>and someone managed to keep them on the line for 8 hours once :D
04:37<warren>any good URL describing this?
04:38<megatron27>yeah, it's in one of the talks that Tony Hsieh gave
04:38<megatron27>here -
04:38<@heckman>owned by Amazon now
04:39<megatron27>I think I heard him mention the 8 hour number when he was a guest on TWIST
04:40<megatron27>8 hour phone call -
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04:51<purrdeta>meh, it could be worse
04:51<purrdeta>it could have been consumed by Amazon
04:51<Boohemian>what a fun day :D
04:51<Boohemian>i love home improvement :)
04:51<Boohemian>woodworking looks like so much fun!
04:52*heckman sips herbal tea
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04:52<Boohemian>i just wish i could find free plans for woodworking projects... all the websites i have found that say "free" end up asking you to pay when you find something you like :/
04:52<Boohemian>heckman: what kind?
04:52<@heckman>Egyption Camomile with Apple
04:53<praetorian>ar eyou still awake
04:53<praetorian>you :P
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04:53<@heckman>Working right now
04:54<praetorian>its like .. all 3 times ive looked in yesterday/today.. you have been here
04:54<@heckman>I woke up about 19 hours ago
04:54<praetorian>you will be zonked soon
04:54<@heckman>I could make it to 24 I think
04:54<praetorian>so to help you thru it, watch
04:54<@heckman>But don't want to.
04:55<@heckman>That's awesome
04:56<warren>heckman: it isn't healthy to be hanging out "at work" during a weekend =)
04:56<@heckman>I'm not
04:56<@heckman>I'm working
04:58<@heckman>My replacement walked in...
04:58<praetorian>who is?
04:58<praetorian>i wanna know who we get to annoy for the next 8 hours
04:58<@heckman>Not me
05:00*SirSquidness engages the annoy-a-tron
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05:00<praetorian>this is also cool
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05:09<@mikegrb>mmm cake
05:09<@heckman>praetorian: Best part of yours is he drops the cake and sees the stuff flying and just kinda looks up like "Oh crap...."
05:10<Boohemian>argh, one of my laptops just stopped working. no power, and won't charge :/
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05:10<Boohemian>heckman: i like lemon ginger
05:12<@heckman>^ haz it
05:12<@heckman>Anywho, I'm headed out o/
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05:12<Boohemian>yay, it's jsut the power supply cord
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05:33<amitz>Boohemian: you must be one of those people! who abuse cable cord, twisting it without care, hanging an adaptor on the cable, etc!
05:33<Boohemian>amitz: i wouldn't put it past my fiancee
05:33<Boohemian>she shows no care towards anything (worth money or not)
05:33<Boohemian>it's a pita, tbh
05:33<amitz>aah, :-p
05:36<snubby>leenodah eh
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06:52<linbot>New news from forums: Followed OpenVPN tutorial, but stuck in Linux Networking <>
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07:11<amarc>is it just me or sometimes linode manager just refuse to log me in
07:30<praetorian>i cannot say ive seen likewise
07:31<praetorian>SpaceHobo: damn hippies
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07:45<amitz>hobs, hippies, what's the difference.
07:57-!-maku`off is now known as maku`
07:58<straterra>amitz: hubs too
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08:01<qweqweqwe>something wrong with the london server again?
08:04<qweqweqwe>mm linode reports network spiking to 18Mb/s but there's nothing in my access log to show it
08:04<straterra>Well...what kind of access log do you have that shows bandwidth usage? o.O
08:05<qweqweqwe>the access log isn't showing any strange accesses
08:06<qweqweqwe>awstats isn't showing any increase in bandwidth usage
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09:33<Bartzy>Hi, I'm looking for some marketing advice on a fresh facebook app, 25,000 pageviews in first 3 days... if some FB experts are hanging here, it would be great if you can PM me :)
09:35*snubby smugs
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10:05<Talman>.... Facebook experts?
10:05<Talman>Facebook marketing is easy: Get Beiber.
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10:08<Talman>!library OpenVPN
10:09<linbot>Talman: 1. Secure Communications with OpenVPN on CentOS 5 ( - 2. Secure Communications with OpenVPN on Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick) ( - 3. Secure Communications with OpenVPN on Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid) (
10:10-!-praetorian [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:12*HoopyCat sends Talman a cow
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10:14<Talman>I already do SSH tunnelling, but I want to get VPN running. Also, my new phone is Android, so I'd like to VPN that as well.
10:14<Nivex>I've not seen openvpn on android. only l2tp/pptp
10:15-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:15<Talman>... Jesus Christ.
10:15<Nivex>yes my son?
10:15<Talman>Not you, Nivex. I came into a starbucks because I'm addicted to their cupcakes.
10:16<Talman>If you are trying to make someone leave, you focus on THAT and THAT alone. You don't offer commentary, it confuses them and gives them an opportunity to debate.
10:16-!-Aexoden [] has joined #linode
10:16<Talman>The security guards here don't seem to comprehend that.
10:16-!-redgore_ [~redgore@] has joined #linode
10:17<Talman>Also, hmm, isn't pptp useless?
10:17<Talman>I seem to remember someone saying that pptp VPNs were useless.
10:17<mwalling>wait, your starbucks has security guards?
10:17<robinetd>mwalling: High profile target!
10:17<Talman>The entire fucking downtown area has security guards. Everywhere.
10:17<HoopyCat>mwalling: minneapolis
10:17<robinetd>Do you live in detroit?
10:17<mwalling>Talman: arent you in MSP?
10:18<mwalling>which side of the river?
10:18<Talman>The entire Minnesota Downtown area has security guards through the property management companies. Tenants are required to give the guards authority in their properties.
10:18<Talman>Minneapolis. I'm at Block E.
10:19<mwalling>my sister goes to school on the other side of the river
10:19<mwalling>she's mentioned school being in the middle of sketchyville, st paul, but nothing about security guards
10:19<Talman>Ah. I hage to go out to white bear lake next week cause a client is the St. Paul lodge, and wants it to be in their county so they get on-duty time.
10:19<mwalling>maybe she was too busy hitting on them
10:19<Talman>St. Paul doesn't have security guards running around like a police state.
10:20<Talman>Hint: TargetRetail here in downtown hires 4-5 cops for loss prevention.
10:20<HoopyCat>minneapolis is a higher-profile target, since it is named first
10:20<Talman>PLUS the 2 uniformed guards.
10:20-!-bixgomez [] has joined #linode
10:20<Talman>PLUS 4 undercover guys who watch for shoplifters.
10:20<Talman>The securitas guards here have everything but a gun, I've never seen unarmed guards for Securitas with pepper spray and batons.
10:21<HoopyCat>it sounds like the major difference between rochester and minneapolis, downtown-wise, is that minneapolis has a starbucks and some retail downtown
10:21<Talman>Pretty much.
10:21<Talman>It has 6 starbucks.
10:21<Talman>All within 6 blocks.
10:22-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:22<Talman>!library l2tp
10:22<Talman>Guess not.
10:22<Talman>!library pptp
10:22-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
10:22<Talman>Library only has OpenVPN?
10:22<HoopyCat>upon further review, we have one starbucks within the inner loop
10:23-!-LinUser [] has joined #linode
10:23<LinUser>Hi there, I see Atlanta blocks IRC ports; does it still allow IRC?
10:23<LinUser>For example, hosting a server etc..
10:23<Talman>You can host a server if you use non-standard ports.
10:23<amitz>isn't there any other competition of starbucks?
10:24<JshWright>LinUser: if the port isn't filtered, you can do anything with it that isn't a violation of the ToS
10:24<Talman>Caribou Coffee, Dunn Brothers.
10:24<LinUser>That's okay, just thought I'd check, thank you.
10:24<Talman>But I don't like either, not enough seating.
10:24<amitz> is starbuck coffee better?
10:24<Talman>I go to starbucks to use their internet, I don't want people near me. :)
10:24<robinetd>LinUser: Just have to use alternate ports.
10:25<LinUser>Thanks guys!
10:25<Talman>You're welcome.
10:25<LinUser>I was around 5 hours; waiting for the DNS to work. ;| Until I googled it.
10:25<amitz>Talman: don't take a bath, works like a charm!
10:25<Talman>Can anyone see a reason not to use PPTP?
10:26<Talman>amitz: I prefer to shower, thank you.
10:26<Talman>That actually reminds me, there are a LOT of homeless here in downtown. Many of them are in various stages of mental health issues.
10:26-!-LinUser [] has quit []
10:27<amitz>must be starbucks. Positive correlation with the number of starbucks there.
10:27<Talman>They will be quick to try to take everyone down with them if they are caught doing something bad. "But he's doing that too!" One of them was arested for trespassing at starbucks and pointed out everyone who didn't have food or drink too.
10:27<amitz> See!
10:27<amitz>starbucks related problems.
10:28<Talman>amitz: Usually I can find a place in a starbucks that's in a corner, and then turn on my "Go away."
10:28<Talman>Which is simply looking up at anyone who gets too close and glowering.
10:28-!-jkwood_ is now known as jkwood
10:29<HoopyCat>Talman: from what they tell me, the authentication protocols usually used in PPTP are somewhat lacking in cryptographic rigor
10:29<Talman>Yeah, that's what I seem to remember.
10:29<HoopyCat>Talman: but, in the real world, i wouldn't worry too much about it.
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10:29<Talman>OK, that's what I thought, I mean cisco boxes support pptp.
10:29<Talman>My box is not a high value target.
10:30<Talman>If it was, I'd obviously not be aon a VPN.
10:30-!-Boohemian [] has joined #linode
10:31<HoopyCat>Talman: it was a wheel reinvented by microsoft and others back in the late 20th century, so cisco likely supports it because they have to. everything else probably supports it because cisco supports it. :-)
10:31<HoopyCat>Talman: just because everyone supports something doesn't mean it is a good solution, but it does mean it's an easy solution
10:32<Talman>What's an easy solution that supports android?
10:32<Talman>Also, other clients will be connecting and they won't be technically comptent.
10:32<HoopyCat>Talman: i dunno. what does the android support?
10:32<Talman>Let me open it up.
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10:33<Talman>l2tp with ipsec psk/crt or stock.
10:33<Talman>I wouldn't mind setting up a l2tp/ipsec with cetificate support.
10:34<Talman>(So, I will google)
10:34<HoopyCat>outside of pointy-clicky woowoo windows stuff (i.e. PPTP), i've personally only configured L2TP (as backhaul for ADSL) and OpenVPN (my current choice for CloudTubes)
10:35<Talman>I like the idea of woo-woo based pptp, cause its easy. :)
10:35<Talman>But l2tp would be more robust. I take it that you use openswan to set that up?
10:35<Talman>(I thought openswan was evil or some shit)
10:36<HoopyCat>Talman: install windows server, click a few things. :-)
10:36-!-Gika [] has quit [Quit: Gika]
10:36<Marius>Anyone here familiar with webDAV setups on linux?
10:36<HoopyCat>Talman: no, you're thinking of black swan
10:36<Talman>HoopyCat: I don't think caker would like a windows box in fremont.
10:37-!-darkbeholder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:37<HoopyCat>Marius: ... oh, wait, yes i think i am.
10:37<Yaakov>Marius: I use Apache for it.
10:37<Yaakov>Marius: It's trivial.
10:37<HoopyCat>nod, webdav with apache is trivial
10:37<Talman>Yes, it is.
10:38<Talman>Even I set it up.
10:38<Talman>Turned it off, but yeah.
10:38<Talman>!library webdav
10:38<HoopyCat>Talman: you're either going to have to pay for software+hardware, or pay with time. you seem a man who understands the value of the latter solution :-)
10:38<linbot>Talman: 1. Manage Source Code Versions with Subversion ( - 2. Install the lighttpd Web Server on Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) ( - 3. Make a Web Server with lighttpd on Debian 5 (Lenny) (
10:39<HoopyCat>Talman: but yeah, when i did L2TP, it was on cisco gear, and it was so damn long ago i can't recall. eventually we transitioned to aal5snap.
10:39<Talman>YI'm looking at OpenSwan to see how long this will take for me to 1) Understand, 2) Implement.
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10:40<Marius>HoopyCat, apparently not
10:41<HoopyCat>Talman: EC2 windows instances start at $167.88/year :-)
10:41<Talman>Heh. IT looks like this is pretty easy to do.
10:41<Marius>I'd like ot have different user group, I was thinking "ok, make a virtualhost for this one subdomain, slap in the documentroot, DAV On and point at the auth file for this user"
10:41<Talman>Just tedious. My Linode should suffice.
10:41<Marius>But it would appear that's not the correct way of doing it >_<
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10:42<Talman>PSK is I give you a password, no cetficates required, right?
10:42<HoopyCat>Talman: pre-shared key, yeah
10:43<Cromulent>hmm do you guys think I am within my rights as a freelancer to charge more to a client if they request something that requires writing a custom middleware class for Django that was not originally specified or am I being out of order?
10:43<Marius>That's the setup I made, I looked over it thrice without finding the problem =/
10:43<Talman>Cromulent: What's your contract say.
10:43<HoopyCat>Marius: is about it
10:43<Talman>Is the deliverable in scope of that contract?
10:43<Marius>Cromulent, only if your contract states taht additional work beyond the initial agreement will cost extra
10:43<Cromulent>err negotiation on new features basically
10:44<Yaakov>Cromulent: Will it take you longer to complete the project?
10:44<Talman>Did you specfiy in your contract that custom coding outside the scope of a stock django stack is outside the scope?
10:44<Cromulent>Yaakov: possibly although I am really waiting on the client to offer some specifics
10:44<HoopyCat>Marius: you have both /home/webdav/user/ and /home/webdav/users/ ? that could get confusing
10:45-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has joined #linode
10:45<Marius>/user would be /marius or /hoopycat etc
10:45<Yaakov>Cromulent: If it adds hours to the project, then you should charge them for those. If it doesn't, then don't. Also, is it work-for-hire or do you own the work?
10:45<Marius>/users is the directory with the .passwd files
10:45<Talman>Personally, I define scope very, very, specifically. If you don't, or you don't use contracts... Ow.
10:45<Cromulent>Talman: I'd consider this a new feature and so would consider this to fall under the renegotiation on new features clause
10:45<HoopyCat>Marius: ah. ok. just wanted to make sure.
10:45-!-bixgomez [] has joined #linode
10:45<Talman>"What is work-for-hire." Something i charge a lot more than 65 an hour for.
10:45<Marius>I decided it would look cleaner if I had the .passwd files in one location isntead of spread out all over the place =)
10:45-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:46<Cromulent>work for hire
10:46<HoopyCat>Marius: you've got a LoadModule for the webdavvy stuff somewhere around, right? what exactly is it not doing?
10:46<Talman>And yeah, I do hourly. If it is written as part of an hour, then fine.
10:46<Marius>a what?
10:46<Talman>If it requires additional hours to code, then bill for it.
10:46<Marius>I jsut did an a2enmod for dav, dav_fs and dav_lock
10:46<HoopyCat>Marius: ok
10:47<Cromulent>well one thing that has come out of this conversation is I need to improve my contract - I've already found 2 holes in it :|
10:47<Yaakov>Cromulent: Well, if you are simply shuffling the original contract hours, I would just stick to the conctract price. If you will need to add hours then you are completely justified in restoring the hourly rate by adding to the price.
10:47<HoopyCat>Marius: i'd probably combine the Location and Directory containers into one... i tend to have everything within a Location
10:47<Marius>you can put it into one? :o
10:47<Cromulent>Yaakov: OK, thank you for your advice
10:48<Yaakov>Cromulent: And whenever possible, avoid work-for-hire on things that you can resell.
10:48<Marius>(I was following a guide which to me appears flawed, or not intended for specific virtualhosts at all)
10:48<amitz>Yaakov: what do you mean work-for-hire on things that you can resell?
10:48<Cromulent>Yaakov: understood - although it is highly unlikely that anyone would want to buy this specific request
10:48-!-akiva [] has left #linode []
10:48<HoopyCat>Marius: the config i'm looking at on my end has http://mumble/foo/bar/, where each bar/ has its own <Location> with its own dav and auth configuration
10:49<HoopyCat>Marius: so, it's similar, except the containers are <Location> instead of <VirtualHost>
10:49<Marius>yeah, isn't it possile to do it without a /bar then
10:50<HoopyCat>Marius: ... also, it's for SVN, so i can't directly compare :-) but i'll pastebin.
10:50<Talman>I don't do work for hire, and will go after people who try to take my designs and use them after I fire them.
10:50<Talman>I'm looking at you, bar in Saint Paul.
10:50<Marius>HoopyCat: <3
10:50<Talman>(I will do work for hire for lots of money, though)
10:50<amitz>interesting Yaakov
10:50<Talman>nano -w /etc/ipsec
10:51<Talman>>.> This is not a shell.
10:51<Cromulent>nano? :p
10:51<Talman>I LIKE NANO. :(
10:51<Talman>It reminds me of my youth using Wordstar. (
10:51<Talman>And pico.
10:52<Talman>I also use Joomla.
10:52<Talman>So shush. :(
10:52<Yaakov>Wordstar 2000
10:52<Talman>Fuck yes, Wordstar 2000.
10:52<Talman>I wrote an ASM program to translate wordstar into ASCII.
10:53<HoopyCat>Marius: a whole buncha those
10:55<HoopyCat>Marius: (a <VirtualHost *:443> container contains "Include /path/to/webdav-conf.include/" to include all of these snippets)
10:55<Talman>My contract, I got it off the internet, then rewrote it. I know it'll hold up in small claims court, but not sure if it'll hold up in district court. I wrote it in plain english.
10:55<Marius>so authdigestdomain would be your equivilant of my DomainName then?
10:56<Talman>Oh, we have a linode for android, right?
10:56-!-solocommand [~solocomma@] has quit []
10:56<Talman>I keep finding that Android Market doesn't find stuff that I know exists, like USAA Mobile.
10:57<HoopyCat>Marius: Auth* is the usual magic shit immaterial to the DAV stuff :-)
10:57-!-jraidan [] has joined #linode
10:57<Talman>I'm wondering if t-mobile only has a few repos in market or what.
10:57-!-jraidan [] has quit []
10:59<amitz>Talman: your phone is sometime locked to certain market only. Some apps are not available in certain markets.
10:59<linbot>New news from forums: website is too slow. in Performance and Tuning <> || Any idea to solve Excessive Disk I/O Consumption. in Performance and Tuning <>
10:59-!-krish [~krish@] has joined #linode
10:59<HoopyCat>Marius: "AuthType Basic, AuthName ZOMGPWNIES, AuthUserFile /dev/zero" or whatnot would be the equivalent of our AuthType Digest foo
10:59<amitz>Talman: at the end , to maximize the android experience, I find Google Nexus to inevitable.
11:00-!-jraidan [] has joined #linode
11:00<HoopyCat>Marius: warning: do not AuthUserFile /dev/zero, i'm not sure what it'll do but it probably won't be good
11:00<Talman>amitz: I'm using appbrain to deal with that, this phone hasn't been rotted yet.
11:00<Talman>rooted, even.
11:01<Talman>I got a cheap phone, a huawei. Its mainly a data modem for me, but I do like the little androids.
11:01<HoopyCat>speaking of rot, afk -> shower
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11:02<Talman>I like the adroid better than the iphone, but I wish there was one unified market like appstore.
11:03<amitz>Talman: I find huawei phone's to be quite reliable, and cheap.
11:04<Talman>This is the huawei Comet.
11:04<Talman>T-Mobile branding.
11:04<Talman>Tiny 2.5 inch screen, but hell, its a modem to me. I bought it cause it does tethering.
11:04<amitz>hmm never heard of that one. They're pretty good in cellular network infrastructure.
11:04<Talman>Huawei jsut came out with it, its an entry level phone. SLow procesor, 598mhz, etc.
11:04-!-cps [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:05<Talman>Does Linode even HAVE an android app?
11:05<amitz>yes, unofficial version
11:06<mwalling>unofficial version who picked com.linode as his package space *glare*
11:06<mwalling>also, he stoped working on it and wont opensource it as promised
11:06<robinetd>What a weener.
11:07<amitz>for something as erious as vps package manager, I won't trust anything less than open source, or official version.
11:07<robinetd>open source or you suck.
11:07<mwalling>my complaint is the fact that he used com.linode as his package namespace
11:08<Talman>I saw "unofficial" and my kneejerk reaction was "Tamaki used as a UT2k3 server without my knowing."
11:08<amitz>I half-expect Perihelion is making one :-p
11:08<Talman>That, too, why would he do that.
11:08-!-neoark [] has quit [Quit: ciao.]
11:08<mwalling>amitz: oh, yeah, forgot about her :)
11:08<Talman>Can Linode get the package space name given to them, or will it have to be com.linodecom.
11:08<mwalling>Talman: well, i dont think there will be problems, as long as he didnt register intents (?), but it is just wrong
11:09-!-cps [] has joined #linode
11:09<mwalling>you're not supposed to do that
11:09<amitz>mwalling: maybe we can ask when Perihelion is around.
11:09<mwalling>amitz: ja
11:09<mwalling>i'm sure it could be a grand effort :)
11:09<mwalling>or somethjing
11:09<Talman>Indeed, you're not.
11:10<amitz>heh, in getting a straight answer from Perihelion :-p
11:10-!-bixgomez [] has joined #linode
11:11<Talman>>.> This guy is using a lot of curls from the manager, and not API, the error log shows.
11:11<Talman>I'll wait for an official one.
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11:12-!-mode/#linode [+o Perihelion] by ChanServ
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11:12<robinetd>Perihelion: Speak of teh devil!
11:12-!-Lou [] has joined #linode
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11:12<jkwood>Speak of the... No, I'd better not. HI ZOMG!
11:12<robinetd>Perihelion: These androids want to know if you're making a linode app.
11:13<Talman>Alsom, odd question. My current company is being dissolved, and a new company is being made.
11:13<Lou>I was thinking 512 but that seems like it might be a bit skimpy.
11:13<Talman>Should we request a new IP once that happens?
11:13<@Perihelion>I can neither confirm nor deny the development of an Android application
11:13<Talman>(Investors want nothing to do with the old company)
11:13<robinetd>Aha, so that means there is!
11:13<Talman>That means that they're trying.
11:13<@Perihelion>No, it means I can't confirm or deny it!
11:13<@Perihelion>I simply don't know.
11:14<Talman>That means that she's uniformed.
11:14<robinetd>Lou: My 512 runs a mail server, jabber server, apache, and some other stuff. Still have 15GB free space and 350MB free memory.
11:14<jkwood>She never confirms or denies on rum day.
11:14<@Perihelion>Rum is yum
11:14<amitz>linode uniform!... sexy!
11:14<robinetd>But why is the rum gone?
11:14<Talman>We have no reports of Perihelion wearing the official Linode Uniform and preparing shock troops.
11:14<Lou>robinetd: I only worry because the server can be a memory hog
11:14<Talman>Because Perihelion drank it all.
11:14<robinetd>Lou: What are you planning on running on it?
11:15*robinetd extracts the rum from Perihelion.
11:15<Lou>is there virtual swap space? In that if I go over my memory allotment it will use my disk space for temp storage?
11:15<Talman>Lou: 512 is what I use for websites and other stuffs.
11:15<robinetd>Lou: 256MB swap by default.
11:15<Talman>Lou: There's swap, yes.
11:15<Lou>robinetd: minecraft
11:15<Talman>Its not like OpenVZZ, no bursta... holy shit.
11:15<Lou>and assorted small shit
11:15<Talman>You want to run a minecraft server?
11:15<robinetd>Poo. I don't know anything about minecraft.
11:15<Talman>Get a 1GB minimum.
11:15<Lou>this cgi irc is pretty horrible
11:16<Lou>i actually think a 768 should cover it
11:16<jkwood>cgi irc does tend to be.
11:16<Talman>CHeck the linode forums and minecraft forums. There should be info on how much for a baseline linode for minecraft.
11:16<Lou>one sec, relogging with something that doesnt hurt my soul
11:16<Talman>pjirc! Mibbit. IRSSI
11:16-!-zivester [] has joined #linode
11:16<jkwood>Which is why I run irssi in screen on my linode for all my irc needs.
11:16-!-LouMcKant [] has joined #linode
11:16<LouMcKant>this is less horrible
11:17<@Perihelion>I'm on xchat aqua right now
11:17<@Perihelion>It makes me somewhat sad
11:17<LouMcKant>i was going to open it in pidgin like i usually do for irc
11:17<LouMcKant>but the website was already openb
11:17<LouMcKant>with attractive not having to click on pidgin options
11:17<robinetd>Perihelion: No irssi for OSX or your linode?
11:17<@Perihelion>I have it, just not using it
11:18<robinetd>Next you're going to say that you have emacs, but prefer notepad instead. >.<
11:18<@Perihelion>I don't really like emacs :3
11:18*robinetd loves it.
11:18<@Perihelion>also textmate > notepad
11:18<robinetd>I can't wrap my head around vim modes.
11:19<LouMcKant>so no one here runs a minecraft server?
11:19<Talman>mac user.
11:19<LouMcKant>I think I might try the 768 and see how that flies
11:19<@jed>LouMcKant: I wrote a stackscript for it, and I did for a while
11:19<@jed>and no, you want 1GB or higher
11:19<Talman>jkwood: Coming live and direct from screen.
11:19<LouMcKant>i've never seen the server take up that much space on my personal computer
11:19<Talman>jed: I thought you wanted 1 GB minimum. I am glad I was right.
11:20<@jed>try to start it without 1 GB of RAM, and it will complain
11:20*robinetd tries.
11:20<LouMcKant>jed: unless you tell it not to
11:20<robinetd>But not really, because I don't know what this minecraft thing is.
11:20<@Perihelion>LouMcKant: If you want a few people on there, your RAM needs will increase drastically depending on what those users do
11:20<@jed>LouMcKant: I am speaking from experience running SMP alpha
11:20<LouMcKant>perihelion: I already run a server for multiple people, so i'm pretty familiar with the load
11:21<@jed>when I ran SMP alpha, if you set java's heap size to < 1 GB, the server refused to start
11:21<LouMcKant> java -Xmx768M -Xms768M -jar minecraft_server.jar nogui
11:21<LouMcKant>would likely fix it
11:21-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
11:21<LouMcKant>oh, really?
11:21<@jed>yes, again, I am speaking from experience, not assumptions
11:21<@Perihelion>I haven't tried that, I just know that 8 people brought a 4GB server down
11:21<Talman>I thought jed was known in the community for his experience in this.
11:21<LouMcKant>lumikant@Billengate:~/games/minecraft/server$ java -Xmx768M -Xms768M -jar minecraft_server.jar nogui 2011-01-16 11:19:50 [INFO] Starting minecraft server version Beta 1.2
11:22*robinetd giggles.
11:22<@jed>clearly he removed that limitation in beta, then
11:22<LouMcKant>i know that running a server for 5 people on my pc doesnt use a full gig of ram. the client uses piles, though
11:23-!-bryen_ [] has joined #linode
11:25<LouMcKant>upgrading your plan is a pretty simple procedure, though, right?
11:25<jkwood>Thorium piles, for proper space-faring needs.
11:25<LouMcKant>I get all the space faring power I need through the emperor's grace and strength
11:26-!-bryen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:27-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:27<LouMcKant>how fast are the hard disks on the linode hosts?
11:29<jkwood>Upgrading your plan is simple, yes. Do note that each host holds a single size of node, so upgrading to a bigger one will require a short migration, during which there will be some downtime.
11:30<Talman>Odd question. Should I use linode dns for speed on the VPN?
11:31<LouMcKant>yeah, i'm not really worried about downtime.
11:33-!-Xobb [~xobb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:35-!-ihikjk [] has joined #linode
11:36<Talman>Now to troubleshoot my l2tp/ipsec connection, whee.
11:36-!-Steve^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:37<hobot>hobs, hippies, what's the difference
11:37<linbot>robinetd: Yo momma's so stupid, she keeps clicking the link to (835:5/0) [momur]
11:38-!-LouMcKant [] has quit [Quit: LouMcKant]
11:45-!-jraidan [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:48<HoopyCat>Talman: a problem i've run into with VPNing is that resolv.conf will be set by dhcp-client based upon the dhcp server's offering. if the DNS server(s) are in the same network, DNS traffic takes the most-specific directly-connected route, which is ok.
11:48<HoopyCat>Talman: however, if the offered DNS servers are not in the same network, and they aren't reachable from the "other" end of the VPN, life sucks.
11:48<Talman>Ah, I see.
11:48-!-user6484 [] has joined #linode
11:48<Talman>RIght now, I'm trying to figure out what log files to look at to see why I can't connect.
11:49<HoopyCat>Talman: so, long story short, iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -i ${INTERFACE} -p udp --dport 53 -j DNAT --to
11:50*Talman nods. "I'll come back to that once I can actually connect. The /var/log/auth.log entries confuse me, never done this before.
11:51<HoopyCat>Talman: neither have i. pastebin something :-)
11:52-!-storrgie_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:52<Talman>How about auth/log? :)
11:54-!-user6484 [] has quit [Quit: user6484]
11:54-!-jraidan [] has joined #linode
11:55<Talman>ipsec verify says everything is good.
11:56<HoopyCat>Talman: they're talking the same language, but apparently not the same dialect. google time.
11:57-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
11:57<Talman>9Yeah, so its my windows that's the issue.
11:58<Talman>Hmm, any idea what starts the conversation? Is it openswan which encapsulates via ppp?
11:58<Talman>i.e. were in the chain should I start. ;)
11:59<Yaakov>VPNs are overrated. Just type everything in pig latin with a fake German accent.
12:00<robinetd>Yaa, eets not very vell!
12:00<robinetd>Can somebody tell me where ze nooklear wessels are?
12:00<Yaakov>ITYM "wery".
12:00<hobot>not in my pants
12:01<Yaakov>I have no bnmmk.
12:01<hobot>I do
12:01<Yaakov>Talk to hobot.
12:01<Yaakov>He's the baby with the bnmml.
12:01<Yaakov>Err... bnnmk.
12:01<hobot>I got it all Yaakov
12:01<ihikjk>i nonjhikj
12:02<hobot>I like this picture
12:02<Yaakov>I am also non-jhijk.
12:02<Yaakov>But I am betting that hobot is jkijk.
12:02<hobot>just a little
12:02<Yaakov>err.. h.
12:02<Talman>Can we help you, ihikjk?
12:03<Talman>YOu're sure?
12:03<Yaakov>Talman: Can we ever be truly certain of anything?
12:04<Talman>No. Shoot him in the base of the head with the .45
12:04<hobot>heisenberg is kind of a dick
12:04<Talman>So. You are about to be shot in the back of the head with a .45 pistol.
12:04<Yaakov>hobot: What kind of bnnmk do you have?
12:04<Talman>I did ask if you could be helped.
12:04<hobot>that's for me to know and for you to find out
12:05<Yaakov>hobot: That's what I am trying to do.
12:06<hobot>so when I dip you dip we dip
12:07<ihikjk>you search the number
12:08<mwalling>knock it off
12:08-!-bixgomez [] has joined #linode
12:08<ihikjk>where are you from
12:09<jkwood>The internet. We've come to revoke your privileges.
12:09<ihikjk>for me?
12:10<jkwood>Yes. It's a special service we provide to our customers.
12:11<ihikjk>i can't enter here?
12:11<jkwood>Yes, as well as haberdashers.
12:11-!-dstufft [] has left #linode []
12:11<@Perihelion>And hooligans
12:12<Talman>I told you, someone shoot him in the back of the head with a .45
12:12<ihikjk>sorry i not understand
12:12<ihikjk>is chat
12:12<Talman>no chat here
12:13<jkwood>Which is why my insanity tactics are not working as I'd hoped.
12:13<ihikjk>suck my ass
12:13-!-mode/#linode [+b *!*6d3716fb@*] by Perihelion
12:13-!-ihikjk was kicked from #linode by Perihelion [.]
12:13<@Perihelion>That works so much better.
12:13<Talman>Seems to speak english just fine.
12:13*Perihelion eagerly waits for a PM
12:13<Talman>See! .45 to the back of the head. Works wonders.
12:14<jkwood>My superpowers do not include that particular one.
12:14*mwalling eagerly waits for ban evasion
12:14-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:14<Talman>Nobody likes a creepy ircop, mwalling.
12:14<@Perihelion>Speak for yourself
12:14<snubby>or a stiff assed one? :D
12:15-!-bixgomez [] has joined #linode
12:15-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:15-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has joined #linode
12:16<Talman>Glee and joy is not preferred. Only uncompromising duty to do what must be done.
12:16<Talman>Its like the English way. Do not take joy in tying Indians to the front of a loaded cannon, merely do so, then execute them.
12:16<Talman>There will be tea after.
12:16<@mikegrb>mmm crumpets
12:17<@Perihelion>No way.
12:17<Talman>Possibly, its hard to get such tings out here.
12:17<Talman>No way?
12:17<Talman>he's got triggers for everything.
12:17<@Perihelion>mikegrbot :(
12:17<@mikegrb>mmm crumpets
12:17<Talman>Man loves him some crumpets.
12:18<vin>what is the ban policy here?
12:18<Talman>Anyone with a @ will execute you and your linode for reasons only they know.
12:19<vin>dont execute my linode!
12:19<Talman>If you really, really piss them off, they could always turn your linode off, too, for TOS violation.
12:19<jkwood>If you're spamming or obviously trolling, you get banned. That's pretty much it.
12:19<Talman>But I figure that'd have to be for stuff like telling Peri what you want to do to her.
12:20<jkwood>The spamming policy is more strictly enforced than the trolling policy, as obvious by my continued presence.
12:20<vin>I will behave
12:20<@Perihelion>jkwood: And mine
12:21<@Perihelion>We have a saying in the office: Don't be a dumb.
12:21<@Perihelion>I think it applies here too.
12:21<jkwood>Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that trolling is actually one of the avenues to employment.
12:22<straterra>its jk
12:23<Talman>I think it is.
12:23<@Perihelion>straterra: I said the same thing
12:23-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:23<jkwood>The others, of course, being bribery, blackmail, and the activation of latent superpowers.
12:23<@Perihelion>jkwood: By that logic, you should be a CEO.
12:23<jkwood>Oh, and that being helpful and knowledgable thing, I gueses.
12:24<straterra>i should be emperor
12:24<Yaakov>Hello, jkwood.
12:24<@Perihelion>It's good to be the king.
12:25<straterra>i cannot be kiiiing
12:25<straterra></lion king>
12:25<@Perihelion>6 year old me just squealed with glee
12:26<@Perihelion>I think I need to order that now
12:26<jkwood>Greetings, my minio... erm... friends.
12:26<hobot>nepotism is the most likely avenue to employment
12:27<straterra>and google for everyone else
12:27<Yaakov>hobot: Nepotism may not be bad and what people want to call "meritocracy" may be bad.
12:29<@Perihelion>Damn you straterra. I found a 3 disc set of the 3 Lion King movies that I think I need.
12:29<jkwood>I was actually speaking of Linode in particular, just in case anyone was confused that I was actually referring to the "real world."
12:30<@Perihelion>We're not all trolls.
12:30<@Perihelion>Just...most of us.
12:31<@Perihelion>He's totally considering a bomb.
12:31<straterra>Perihelion: You know you <3 me for planting lion king in your mind
12:32<@Perihelion>Oddly enough, I now have the Little Mermaid song stuck in my head.
12:32<robinetd>Perihelion's a barbie girl.. in a barbie woooooooorld
12:32<straterra>its a all neeeewww wooorld
12:33<@Perihelion>robinetd: You clearly don't know me at all if you think that :P
12:33<jkwood>She's really more of the Dutch "Barbie Girl."
12:34<Getty>am i right here? 8-)
12:35-!-SleePy [] has joined #linode
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12:36<@Perihelion>The dutch one sounds so angry
12:39-!-neoark [] has joined #linode
12:41<jkwood>See what I mean?
12:45<Talman>Head hurts.
12:46-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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12:53-!-user6484 is now known as NewtonianB
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12:55<hobot>as long as you say may Yaakov im fine with that
12:57<NewtonianB>Could someone advise me, I run a small social network, I have two needs for emails, 1. For staff to have their own personalized email with domain (6 or so accounts that will be used like real account) 2. for notifications to users, when they receive a messag or something happens on site I need a way to send them an email. Given this should I yes or no manage my own mailserver?
12:57<erik`>there's probably no hosted solution that does this for you flexibly
12:57<erik`>so probably yes
12:57<NewtonianB>Once its setup does it require alot of maintenance?
12:58<erik`>probably not
12:58<NewtonianB>I have no expertise or this and was going to get a contractor to set it up
12:58<AviMarcus>why don't you just use google?
12:58<AviMarcus>for your domain
12:58<AviMarcus><10 accounts I think is free
12:58<NewtonianB>google apps?
12:58<Gika>yeah, google apps for domains. it's free for <50 users
12:59<Gika>and exim just for sending stuff
12:59<hobot>yeah it was 25 back when I signed up
12:59<Yaakov>NewtonianB: What you want should be trivial.
12:59<NewtonianB>I hate the fact that google can read all my emails especially in our situations where we are trying to negoticate deals
12:59<Yaakov>NewtonianB: BUT, only after you know how.
12:59<erik`>oh, you don't need to do anything special with users' mailboxes?
12:59<NewtonianB>users dont have mailboxes
12:59<erik`>then any hosted solution will work
12:59<NewtonianB>only staff does
12:59<Yaakov>NewtonianB: And you will want to run DKIM and SPF to help ensure you aren't marked as spam.
12:59<devsforev>NewtonianB: afraid tha google employees are going to read your email and then snatch up business deals you're making?
12:59<erik`>so what happens when a user receives an email?
13:00<NewtonianB>a user receives email to their own accounts not my sites account
13:00<NewtonianB>i have their email address saved
13:00<Yaakov>NewtonianB: But I run my own MTAs, and it's not rocket surgery.
13:00<erik`>devsforev, it's all fun and games until they find out one of your users knows julian assange ;)
13:00<Yaakov>NewtonianB: Which distribution?
13:00<NewtonianB>ubuntu 10.4
13:00<robinetd>10.04. 10.4 doesn't exist. :O
13:01<NewtonianB>woops ya
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13:01<Yaakov>Hrm... I don't know about the setup in Unbuntu. In Debian the package asks a few questions and you are off.
13:01<Yaakov>I would say, Exim + dovecot will do fine for you. Expect to spend a couple of hours on that. Then do SPF and DKIM (~2 more hours).
13:02<NewtonianB>whats difference between postfix/dovecot?
13:02<AviMarcus>what's dovecot, spf and dkim? :x
13:02<AviMarcus>in short
13:03<Yaakov>dovecot is IMAP/POP3.
13:03<Yaakov>SPF and DKIM are proactive antispam thingies, sender identification.
13:04<AviMarcus>k, thx
13:05<Yaakov>NewtonianB: Postfix is an alternative to Exim.
13:05<Yaakov>NewtonianB: And it's fine too.
13:05-!-NewtonianB [] has left #linode []
13:06<hobot>a postfix is fine too
13:06-!-NewtonianB [] has joined #linode
13:06-!-][EvIl-BoY][ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:07<NewtonianB>ah shit i crashed lost the conversation
13:07<NewtonianB>could someone PM it to me plz
13:08<mwalling> theres a link called "logs"
13:09<smed>hey - can someone field a billing question?
13:10-!-tiny [] has joined #linode
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13:13<smed>I noticed that if I create a Linode today (16th of month), that the initial order is not just prorated to the end of the month, but the following month too. Is that correct?
13:13<smed>I created a Linode yesterday (15th of the month) and it was only prorated to the end of the current month.
13:13<smed>it's not a big deal...just wasn't expecting that...
13:13<smed>the $ is correct.
13:14<smed>can any Linode staff confirm ?
13:14<@jed>smed: yes, past the threshold we prepay you for next month too
13:15<smed>k - tx.
13:15<smed>that's what I figured.
13:15<@jed>just so people can't buy on the 31st and be surprised when we doublecharge them, etc
13:15<smed>and I never would have noticed if I hadn't created one yesterday
13:15<smed>understood - good policy.
13:16<snubby>glad to be a lot of help :>
13:22<viewsrc>i've got a q on VCPUs if anyone knows... what is "capacity" in Linode, 100% or 400% CPU utilization? I want to get the most bang for my buck but don't want to be a resource hog. Given Linode provides 4 VCPUs, should I be aiming for 400% or is that too much?
13:23<nick125>Linode will do fair scheduling..meaning that if everyone is trying to use CPU, they'll get an equal share of CPU usage..but when the CPU capacity isn't used, you can use the unused capacity.
13:23-!-prettyrobots [~alan@] has joined #linode
13:23<prettyrobots>HoopyCat: Fat people need less soap.
13:24<icepup>Question, I am trying to upload a public ssh key to my linode from a 2nd machine, however clearly I can't ssh to do that, since i have password auth disabled. i am trying to use lish, but it doesn't seem to be taking. is it possible to scp the file to the lish?
13:24<prettyrobots>But MongoDB needs 64 bits to install from RPM.
13:24<prettyrobots>Will it be terribly expensive for me to go 64 bit?
13:24<viewsrc>nick125: so does fair scheduling mean that I don't have to worry about being a "resource hog?" Will Linode throttle if it looks like I'm trying to get more than my fair share?
13:24<prettyrobots>Or it it an all things being equal kind of thing?
13:25<nick125>viewsrc: Not that I'm aware of.
13:25<viewsrc>nick125: Great. I think it's a perception thing on the Linode graphs
13:26<viewsrc>A lot of tools scale CPU datasets 1% to 100%; here's it's 1% to 400%
13:26<viewsrc>My question is: Does 400% really mean 100% or does it really mean 400%?
13:26<mwalling>icepup: no
13:26<nick125>viewsrc: It means 400%, I believe. As in, 400% = 100% on all four processors.
13:27<icepup>mwalling: so the only way to get this file up there would be to scp it from my other machine, which is already set up with the proper keys for ssh?
13:27<icepup>is it safe to email myself the public key of my 2nd machine?
13:27<mwalling>icepup: not the *only* way, but it is a way
13:27<icepup>i mean the file
13:27<icepup>or whatever it's called
13:27<mwalling>(other ways would be more convoluted)
13:27<mwalling>its called a "public key" :)
13:27<Ovron>public is public for a reason
13:27<hawk>icepup: The public key is... public...
13:27<nick125>transmitting the public key is fine
13:28<viewsrc>nick125: Got it, thanks. I also understand from you that I should, under normal conditions, have all 4 of those VCPUs dedicated to my Linode, so I'm not being a jerk for running that hot
13:28<icepup>i guess i could just stick it on a thumb drive too
13:28<mwalling>viewsrc: uh, wut?
13:28<Yaakov>I keep my public keys secret for REAL security.
13:28<Ovron>viewsrc: it means you can utilize at tops 1 entire host CPU. Which is nice, but wouldn't be very nice to for instance run something just to eat CPU cycles, like folding@home etc.
13:29<mwalling>Ovron: assuming quadcore chips
13:29<Yaakov>They are all encrypted and stored on flash drives in a safe.
13:29<Ovron>mwalling: yep
13:29<Ovron>Yaakov: is the safe burried beneath ground?
13:30<Yaakov>No, it is constantly aloft in the gondola of a kevlar helium blimp.
13:30-!-Sputnik7 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:31<mwalling>jed: lul, needs twitter
13:31<viewsrc>Ovron: Thanks. I have no interest in burning CPU for kicks and giggles, but I've got a lot of work to spread around so I'm wondering how to strike the right balance between getting my money's worth and overloading a host
13:32<Ovron>@mwalling #lul #whatsup hi!
13:32<mwalling>!f how do i get my fair share of cup
13:32<linbot>mwalling: Screw you
13:32<hobot>I c u p
13:32<Ovron>virtual cup
13:32-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
13:42-!-viewsrc [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:44<amitz>virtual cop
13:44<amitz>copping cup...
13:44*amitz sleeps
13:44-!-techhelper1 is now known as th1
13:44-!-th1 is now known as duh
13:45-!-duh is now known as techhelper1
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13:57<mathew>Is something wrong with the London data center?
13:57<mathew>It's being a tad slow. maybe it's just me
13:58<dominikh>mathew: hm, I wondered if that was my connection's fault
13:58<dominikh>mathew: which host?
13:59<dominikh>hm, 175 here.
13:59<mathew>I've checked my linode stats, no high CPU or bandwidth usage. The ajax console took a while to launch too
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14:01<mathew>dominikh, hmm, my speed is back to normal now. Strange issue
14:01<dominikh>mathew: maybe some network hiccup. happens :)
14:01-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has joined #linode
14:03<jkwood>Nothing about you is ever normal.
14:04<jkwood>This is optimal.
14:04<@Perihelion>You all behave while I'm gone.
14:04<Yaakov>In the end, it is all human experience. There's no avoiding it.
14:07<mwalling>mathew: !mtr
14:07<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
14:10<mwalling>mathew: get what i mean?
14:10<robinetd>Perihelion: Not me. I'm evil 24/7.
14:10<mathew>mwalling, yep
14:10<linbot>mathew: (mtrlondon <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "web title$1".
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14:13<mathew>Thanks mwalling, big packet loss at "" for me
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14:17<HoopyCat>you should offer a cash reward next time, Yaakov
14:17<jkwood>Luckily, that's not fatal in packets.
14:17<linbot>HoopyCat: IP:; rDNS: None; ASN adv net:; ASN: AS15830; ASN owner: TELECITYGROUP UK; ASN reg: 2002-09-11; Country: GB;
14:18<dominikh>mathew: that packet loss unfortunately means nothing. telecity routers ignore ICMP if there's too many of them
14:18<mathew>dominikh, ah
14:18<dominikh>so if you use mtr, use a bigger interval
14:18<HoopyCat>my route to london does not flow through that point, alas
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14:21<mathew>dominikh, should 10 seconds do it? Still seeing loss there.
14:22<AviMarcus>lol Yaakov
14:23<AviMarcus>(I'm looking at the sign for lost packet)
14:23<dominikh>mathew: hm. for all I know, telecity routers just act weird regarding pings :/
14:23<dominikh>but 10 seconds should be more than plenty, yeah...
14:24<mathew>dominikh, fair enough, I can access my server for now. I'll give it a bit of time
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14:25<HoopyCat>mathew: pastebin the result? packet loss "doesn't matter" if it doesn't form a continious pattern to the end due to asymmetry and all that... as a quick example with a 5-hop path, looking at packet loss, 0->0->50->0->0 tells you nothing, 0->0->50->50->50 tells you something)
14:26<mathew>HoopyCat, in you insist, hold on a second
14:26<mathew>if you*
14:27<HoopyCat>on each hop, you're measuring packet loss to the endpoint up to that hop then from that hop back to you; the return path will almost never match the return path from the endpoint
14:28<HoopyCat>which is a pain in the butt sometimes, especially when the packet loss shows up on the last hop, indicating that the problem is on the return path :-)
14:29<erik`>the internet is a tough thing to debug
14:29<HoopyCat>nod. 'tis why i <3 <3 Yaakov for the !mtr-* tools
14:29<HoopyCat>this compile is taking a long time. that must mean i have no syntax errors!
14:30<erik`>just linker errors
14:30<HoopyCat>Full Compilation was successful (408 warnings)
14:31<erik`>ok, segfaults then
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14:31<HoopyCat>naw, unused pins. i should delete those.
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14:32-!-NewtonianB is now known as codaxe
14:33-!-codaxe is now known as NewtonianB
14:33<mathew>HoopyCat, you'll have to forgive me, I couldn't copy the data:
14:33*mathew so embarrassed -_-
14:34<HoopyCat>woah nice, got it down from 194 cells to 50 cells. amazing how much you can streamline things by not using div and mod to split "42" into "4" and "2"...
14:36*nick125 has ran out of Linux distros to try and use :/
14:36<HoopyCat>mathew: i think those two hops in the middle just don't like you. if everything is "fine" now, keep this around: it's a baseline to compare against next time it breaks
14:37<HoopyCat>nick125: there's an article in this month's linux journal on creating a custom distro using puppy linux and woof. play with that. :-)
14:37<nick125>HoopyCat: I'm trying to find something LESS broken :p
14:37<HoopyCat>hooray, deleting the unused pins got it down to 8 warnings. now let's see if this actually works on the hardware
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14:53<@pparadis>nick125: it's time to start trying the BSDs then
14:53<nick125>pparadis: already did that once.
14:53<nick125>not doing it again
14:53<@pparadis>but there's more than one BSD!
14:54<nick125>Using BSD on a workstation/desktop seems like an awful idea.
14:54-!-jonsowman_mob [~jonsowman@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:54<@pparadis>depending on your needs, works just fine for many folks.
14:56<nick125>I've found the hardware support in BSDs to be lacking.
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14:57<@pparadis>if you're referring to support for proprietary, closed stuff, sure. things like wireless support have always been something of an issue there, but there are binary drivers available in some cases that work. for what i'd use bsd on the desktop for, it wouldn't actually matter to me.
15:00<nick125>I have a bad enough time getting my hardware to work on Linux..heh.
15:01-!-mathew [] has joined #linode
15:02<NiftyLettuce>nick123: laptop or somethin?
15:03-!-icepup [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<Boohemian>do i need to run coax and/or ethernet through a surge protector, or is that unnecessary in my home?
15:07<nick125>NiftyLettuce: yeah, laptop
15:08<NiftyLettuce>nick123: hp..?
15:08<nick125>NiftyLettuce: Lenovo. My biggest issue is the nvidia graphics and Intel wireless..although the wireless issue oculd be the wireless here.
15:08<NiftyLettuce>nick123: you try an ubuntu kernel?
15:09<Boohemian>i'm about to purchase a lenovo. i think the X series
15:09<Boohemian>was gonna go with T, but no need when i have a dedicated file server plus backup server
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15:10<nick125>Boohemian: The Thinkpads are's just some of the drivers in Linux are shoddy -- mainly nvidia and intel.
15:10<Boohemian>nick125: yeah, well, i have to use nvidia for grafx. no go with ati
15:11<Boohemian>i have had mac laptops for the past five years. i was on linux before then. i gave up on linux and switched to mac circa 2005 because of horrible wifi issues
15:11<Boohemian>but they seem to be resolved now
15:12<nick125>I'm tempted to go OS X...although I wouldn't be able to for a know, dropping $2200 on a Thinkpad a few months before..
15:12-!-SputnikSeven [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:12<Boohemian>nick125: when i sell my 17 MBP and 13 MBP and replace with a non-mac with comparable hardware, i'll pocket ~1100 USD
15:13<nick125>I'm getting tired of spending so much time trying to fix when my Linux install breaks. I moved to Fedora after my Ubuntu install broke, but now Fedora is giving me some issues -- mainly suspend, power consumption, and yum acting up.
15:14<avenj>weird, my linux installs all work great :o
15:14<mbreslin>my wife just made me a wonderful omelette
15:14<nick125>avenj: everyone keeps telling me that. I just have horrible luck.
15:14<mbreslin>LUCKIEST ALSO
15:14<jkwood>You're certainly licukier than i am.
15:14<dominikh>nick125: stop using the wrong distributions :)
15:15<nick125>dominikh: I've used just nearly every popular-ish Linux distro
15:15<mbreslin>the question is why did you keep going when you got to slackware
15:15<mbreslin>which is obviously the first/last/one true distro
15:15<dominikh>the last before you switch back to Windows
15:15<mbreslin>I don't like dominikh.
15:16<jkwood>I tried switching back to Windows, but I couldn't live without tr.
15:16<jkwood>Or... well, pretty much anything Linux has but Windows doesn't.
15:16<jkwood>Come to think of it, I couldn't live with using Windows either.
15:18<Yaakov>Cygwin + PuTTY-cyg makes Windows ALMOST OK
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15:29<NewtonianB>Hey Yaakov you mentioned two apps earlier to identify your mailserver, what were they again? something kim.?
15:41-!-goose [~goose@] has joined #linode
15:49<@jed>Many gave up. Many lost hope. but YOU persevered and have finished every step of Dropquest! For real this time! Throughout your quest, you've amassed a total of 1GB of space for your Dropbox.
15:49<@jed>You placed #30168 with a time of 00:49:21
15:49<@jed>^ free 1 GB, doooo it
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16:05<AviMarcus>Throughout your quest, you've amassed a total of 1GB of space for your Dropbox. You placed #30381 with a time of 00:03:02
16:05<AviMarcus>i r teh cheater, jed
16:07<AviMarcus>but thanks for mentioning it, or I wouldn't have found it
16:10<mwalling>i cant do step 8
16:11-!-oeuftete [~oeuftete@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:11<AviMarcus>mwalling, to cheat:
16:14<AviMarcus>NewtonianB : [20:01:58] <Yaakov>: I would say, Exim + dovecot will do fine for you. Expect to spend a couple of hours on that. Then do SPF and DKIM (~2 more hours).
16:14<NewtonianB>thanks AvilMarcus
16:14-!-prettyrobots [~alan@] has quit [Quit: prettyrobots]
16:18<mwalling>AviMarcus: that didnt exactly help with step 8 :/
16:19<AviMarcus>dunno, the whole thing got me my free space. It did seem to skip steps, though..
16:20<AviMarcus>master-master mysql is cool
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16:28<linbot>New news from forums: customer wants "unlimited" transfer in Sales Questions and Answers <>
16:30<nick125>I'm confused. Fedora 14's wpa_supplicant is older than Ubuntu Karmic's wpa_supplicant.
16:32-!-prettyrobots [~prettyrob@] has joined #linode
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16:41<AviMarcus>meh, I was beaten :(
16:43<Talman>How do you ask ubuntu what version it is? I forget the /etc/ file name.
16:43-!-mcinerney [] has joined #linode
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16:45<nick125>aptitude show <package>
16:45<oxez>sorry if it has been asked, but is there any network issue with newark?
16:45-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
16:45<@jed>Talman: lsb-release
16:45<nick125>lsb_release -a
16:46<Nivex>oxez: nothing on, trace to my newark node is fine
16:47<oxez>Nivex: hmm ok. That's weird, I can't connect to any irc server since today, i'll try something else, ty
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16:50<Talman>What, do people just not deploy VPNs on Ubuntu?
16:50<Talman>This is pissing me off, and the lack of information I'm running into is as well.
16:51-!-loxs[] [~loxs@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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16:55<hawk>AviMarcus: Got him for you :p
16:55<AviMarcus>lack of information on ubuntu? that's odd.
16:56<AviMarcus>lol hawk I knew 380mbits seemed wrong
16:57<Talman>By nature, diagnosing problems with encrypted stuff is kinda hard.
16:57<hawk>AviMarcus: Well, 380 Mbps was right
16:58<AviMarcus>= 1 second?
16:58<hawk>AviMarcus: About 2s
17:01-!-Hobbsee is now known as Guest490
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17:06<sub>too bad oxez left already
17:06<sub>my linodes are in Newark and one of them was raising alerts earlier
17:06<sub>oh, they all were
17:06<sub>large amounts of packet loss
17:07<sub>but only lasted about 5 minutes
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17:18<linbot>New news from forums: So long again, Linode in General Discussion <>
17:20*heckman burps
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17:41<midcontinent>Is it possible to download a linode disk image?
17:42<midcontinent>and if we can what software to use to restore it?
17:42<bob2>yes, anything
17:42<bob2>(boot into finnix, go nuts)
17:43-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
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17:46<Talman>Is there somewhere I can read about how stupid using PPTP is and how the ____________ are going to hax my gibson if I use it?>
17:46*Talman will be going home, but is attached and will read when relogging.
17:48<@Perihelion>I once had an Ibanez get hacked.
17:49<Marius>I once had a perihelion hack me.
17:50<jameswilson>my Takamine has a big wide gaping security hole.
17:51<@heckman>I really hope the blood I coughed up earlier was from a nosebleed.
17:51-!-tehzomb [] has joined #linode
17:52<dominikh>a pseudoviking must not fear the blood in his lungs
17:52<@heckman>I don't fear it when it's in there
17:52<@heckman>I fear it when it's coming out.
17:52<tehzomb>Just wondering, if I purchase a linode now, will the invoice date always be the 16th or will i be invoiced a half-month then invoiced on the 1st every following month?
17:52<nick125>tehzomb: the latter
17:52<tehzomb>awesome, thanks.
17:52<tehzomb>thats what i was hoping lol
17:52<nick125>I think you might be invoiced for the half month and next month, though.
17:53<nick125>(I forget when the cut-off is..)
17:54<auraka>apache be creepin....hide your memoriez, hid your cpuz...
17:54<@heckman>okay auraka dodson.
17:54<tehzomb>awesome... thanks nick, heckman.
17:54<@heckman>tehzomb: everything billing:
17:54<Marius>heckman, a real viking would be spitting it out on purpose!
17:54<Nivex>oh gawd... new tomcat out. I expect my job to get even more painful.
17:55<@heckman>Marius: only if there is someone to observe the blood
17:55<tehzomb>My email is invalid?
17:55<@heckman>There was someone talking by, so I made sure to spit it in the snow
17:55<@heckman>tehzomb: What domain?
17:55<Marius>isnt' taht a temp email provider?
17:55<Marius>like those crappy "use for a couple hours and away they go" ?
17:55<auraka>i think apache needs a revamp
17:56<tehzomb>no, its for encrypted email
17:56<nick125>auraka: It's called Lighttpd/Nginx
17:56<@heckman>There are a few e-mail providers we've blacklisted. I don't know (offhand) if that's one of them.
17:56<auraka>Marius: it is a supposedly secure email provider that has given away supposedly secure email to the government
17:56<tehzomb>alright... i'll try using my own domain then :P
17:56<auraka>nick125: use it on custom boxes....but most control panels need apache
17:56<tehzomb>worked :D
17:56<nick125>auraka: There's your problem. Control panels are evil.
17:57<auraka>that is a dumb statement
17:57<@heckman>I use webmin for MySQL management.
17:57<nick125>It's the truth. I've worked with a lot of them...they're all evil.
17:57<@heckman>I turn it off as soon as I am done.
17:58<auraka>control panels let non-technical people get their websites up and running.....I'd rather have a control panel so friends/families can easily manage their websites then have to do it all manually
17:58<auraka>nick125: are they evil, please explain how directadmin is evil
17:59<nick125>auraka: They're usually atypical Apache/MySQL/PHP setups. If you want to vary any from their setup (say, a newer version of PHP), you usually end up breaking everything.
17:59<auraka>nick125: thats because thats what most small business/personal sites is that evil
18:00<auraka>I don't get what you are saying is evil...I can compile my own php if I want it...same with apache?
18:00<nick125>auraka: Yeah, try using that php or Apache with DirectAdmin (or, gasp, CPanel). You'll likely break something in the process.
18:01<auraka>I have
18:01<auraka>and it doesn't....they even provide help articles about it
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18:04<auraka>cpanel is something i won't use because of how they setup their directory structures for websites...but they aren't "evil"
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18:15<Audas>Changes on master DNS take place every 15 minutes, yet and A record I added 30 minutes ago isn't resolvable. Anyone else has had the same slight problem?
18:16<bob2>isn't resolvable = 'dig' returns NXDOMAIN?
18:16-!-mathew [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:16<bob2>or your ISP can't resolve it?
18:17<Audas> doesn't know about it, for starters.
18:17<Audas> is the default nameserver on my Linode, as it came from "factory."
18:18<Audas>.6 the same.
18:18<@caker>there's nothing special about - it's a caching resolver .. so is .6
18:18<bob2>sure, if you looked it up before the nameserver reloaded, it'll cache the NXDOMAIN
18:18<eyecool>what's your domain name?
18:18<Audas> is the FQDN.
18:18<bob2> 86400 IN A
18:18<eyecool>what bob2 said
18:19<bob2>.6 has it, .7 has cached NXDOMAIN
18:19<Audas>I see. Thanks. Need to wait the catch up game now, I guess.
18:19<bob2>23 hours and 58 minutes to go :)
18:20<Audas>Eye, yes Sir?
18:20-!-mathew [] has joined #linode
18:20<eyecool>Audas: next time, set your dns to ttl = 300 seconds a day or two or a week before u make your changes... it really helps!
18:21<bob2>or just not look things up via your recursive resolver until it is on the authorotatives
18:21<bob2>one day I will be able to spell authoratative reliably
18:22<jtsage>anybody running ubuntu (whatever lastest is - 10.10 maybe?) - where did phpDocumenter go? it used to be in the apt repo, right?
18:22<eyecool>low ttl is key! ;)
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18:27<xentek>which kernels support NFS? I'm using "Latest 2.6 Paravirt (" and got this error: "Not starting NFS kernel daemon: no support in current kernel." when installing nfs-kernel-server
18:27<@caker>zgrep NFS /proc/config.gz
18:27<@caker>^-- run that
18:29<@caker>some init/start up scripts are dumb and freak when something they expect to be a module is built into the kernel
18:32<straterra>xentek: What distro?
18:32<xentek>ubuntu 10.4
18:32<bob2>sounds like debunutu
18:33<xentek>is there a way around this? because the service is not running
18:34-!-icepup [] has joined #linode
18:34<@caker>edit the start up script to not be dumb
18:37<xentek>i assume you mean this ;)
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19:04<Talman>RIght. pptp here I come.
19:05<straterra>PPTP is..ugly
19:05<Talman>l2tp doesn't work on my linode and I can't diagnose it, I lack the proper information to understand the problem.
19:06-!-baKon [~baKon@] has joined #linode
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19:07<Talman>I just want the fucking thing to work across disparate clients without having shove instructions up the asses of non-technical people on how openVPN works.
19:07<straterra>I get around that by just giving them a zip file with files/config and they drop it in place
19:08<Talman>This includes android phones.
19:08<straterra>Use l2tp then
19:09<straterra>PPTP provides very, very, very weak security unless you use a "nonstandard" encryption/hashing scheme over it..which needs special client support
19:09<Talman>Yes, I've been trying to, but it isn't working and I don't know how to diagnose the problems.
19:10<Talman>openswan says something about how it can't assign an IP due to no private interfaces or some such.
19:11-!-enc0de_ [] has joined #linode
19:11<baKon>Soemone's telling me that is giving 'too many redirects' How should I troubleshoot?
19:13<@heckman>Works for me...
19:13-!-SleePy [] has quit [Quit: sleep(mt_rand());]
19:14<celthunder>loaded for me just fine bakon
19:15<straterra>OHHAI JED
19:16<straterra>Holy hell..when did a PDF reader become 70 megs?
19:17<@jed>when it does more than read PDFs, if you're talking about the one I think you are
19:17-!-enc0de [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17<straterra>Does it start with an A and rhyme with Buhdobe?
19:17<straterra>If so..we are talking about the same
19:17<@jed>yeah, that thing has all kinds of crap in it
19:17<Talman>Wouldn't that be rabat it rhymes with.
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19:18<Talman>Acroat Reader is not a PDF reader. I mean, it reads PDFs, but...
19:18<straterra>Talman: ccording to this website, its not called Acrobat any more
19:18<Talman>Its also a Livecycle form filler outer.
19:18<straterra>It's just "Adobe Reader"
19:18<Talman>Oh, yeah.
19:18<Talman>Its called Raeader.
19:18<Talman>Considering I had that shoved down my throat by Adobe...
19:18<straterra>OSX comes with a pdf reader in its preview thing..but that reader sucks
19:19<Talman>Rader also handles livecycle forms, has integration PDF portfolios...
19:19<Talman>Its a kitchen sink.
19:19<@jed>straterra: allegedly reader has a full e-mail server in it or something
19:19<straterra>ooooh really
19:20<straterra>Maybe they integrated emacs in it
19:20-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
19:20<Talman>I wouldn't be surprised.
19:20<@jed>it does something with e-mail, which confirmed that quote that every program expands until it can read mail
19:20<@jed>who was that, jwz
19:20<baKon>heckman: thanks. Would you be so kind as to try ?
19:21<@jed>yeah, jz
19:21<straterra>baKon: it loads fine
19:21<baKon>I swear my client has weirdly fubared connection
19:22<Talman>We have a bot command that will check.
19:22<Talman>Also, you can always use google screen size to check, it pulls from Google's server.
19:23<baKon>interesting... thanks. How can I list the bot manual?
19:23-!-icepup [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24<Talman>I have not found one. Usually you ask if the bot is capable. Sometimes we answer, sometimes the bot itself does through its advance LinAI.
19:24<Talman>linbot, how the fuck do I get you to see if a website is up?
19:25<linbot>caker: Is Up -> Check if your website is up or down?
19:25<linbot>heckman: Is Up -> Check if your website is up or down?
19:25<@heckman>Oh man, someone ruined my joke
19:25<@heckman> was down like a week ago
19:27<linbot>baKon: Is Up -> Check if your website is up or down?
19:27<@heckman>baKon: Did the person try clearing the internet browser cache?
19:27<@heckman>Try a different browser?
19:28<baKon>I'm talking them through all that shizzle as I type
19:28<linbot>Yaakov: Is Down -> Check if your website is up or down?
19:28<linbot>Yaakov: Is Down -> Check if your website is up or down?
19:28<linbot>Yaakov: Is Down -> Check if your website is up or down?
19:28<Yaakov>Feh, etc.
19:28-!-Kane` [] has joined #linode
19:33<baKon>heckman: he's tried a different browser now... still no luck. I'm pretty sure it's not a propagation issue either
19:34<bob2>what makes you think it isn't a NXDOMAIN-cached-at-isp problem?
19:41<@heckman>Could flush local OS DNS cache.
19:41<@jed>with the deletionism of wikipedia, our article gets deleted a couple times but this one is a tome
19:41<@jed>go figure
19:42<dominikh>deletionism of wikipedia? Dude, you haven't experienced the German wikipedia yet…
19:43<mbreslin>in soviet russia wikipedia deletes you
19:43<dominikh>they deleted an article about one of the biggest linux/open source conferences in Germany, because it "wasn't relevant"
19:45-!-mitchellhislop [] has joined #linode
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19:48<Talman>WE ARE THE STATE.
19:49<Yaakov>I'm not.
19:49<Yaakov>I do.
19:50<@jed>man groff
19:51-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
19:52<baKon>heckman: I think it was some super stale cache from a couple of days ago
19:52<linbot>New news from forums: Ubuntu 10.04 - Nginx - Piwik install in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
19:53<baKon>heckman: thanks again for the help
19:57-!-RiverRat [] has joined #linode
19:58<BarkerJr>what's the name of the movie with the little robot numbered 8?
19:58-!-joshdotsmith [] has joined #linode
20:00<tanto>short circuit?
20:00<tanto>i know it had johnny 5 but did it have 8?
20:01-!-orudie [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:01<BarkerJr>oh, no, it was 9
20:01<ttaylor>jed: ping
20:02-!-Gika [] has quit [Quit: Gika]
20:02<Talman>Yes, it was 9, but 8 confused me.
20:02<@jed>tim the toolman taylor, what can I do for you
20:02<ttaylor>jed: Did you get my email?
20:02<BarkerJr>I just watched the owl movie... it's good
20:02<@jed>was it directly to me?
20:02<BarkerJr>very violent, though
20:02<@jed>I don't get at home, I've been too lazy
20:02-!-xentek [] has quit [Quit: xentek]
20:03<BarkerJr>legend of the guardians
20:03<@jed>it's sitting in on my desktop via IMAP behind the VPN, so meh
20:03<@jed>if it's critical you can hit
20:03-!-xentek [] has joined #linode
20:03<ttaylor>jed: can I PM you?
20:03<Talman>jed is wilson?
20:04<ttaylor>it's not critical, just thought you'd want a heads up, not linode customer related.
20:04<@jed>knock yourself out
20:04<Talman>jed is getting an offer from mojang.
20:04<@jed>yeah right, I wouldn't want to work on that pile
20:04<dominikh>you could be riiich
20:05<Talman>But you get to work for a company with a weird name!
20:06<@jed>it's Mojang AB now
20:06-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:06-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
20:06<Talman>Yeah, I figured they'd have to really incoroprate and would ose the Specifications Name.
20:08<Talman>Bah. Ubuuntu forums has 5 threads on OpenSWAN and most are ignored or "You don't know what you're doing, insufficent information."
20:12-!-baKon [~baKon@] has left #linode []
20:12<@heckman> build fixes my biggest pet peve in Chrome
20:12<@heckman>I am happy now
20:12-!-icepup [] has joined #linode
20:12<dominikh>which pet peve?
20:12<@heckman>In one of our backend systems we have an element that loads from another URL. Three to be exact.
20:12<@heckman>And Chrome required me to log in once for each element, even tho they were from the same URL
20:13<@heckman>I only need to log in once in the newest dev build.
20:13-!-prettyrobots [~prettyrob@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:13-!-prettyrobots [~prettyrob@] has joined #linode
20:14<dominikh>oh look, they also fixed my biggest pet peve: the CUPS admin pages crashing the tab
20:14-!-SleePy [] has joined #linode
20:14-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:18<fo0bar>heckman: for HTTP authentication, or a cookie problem?
20:20<@heckman>http auth
20:20<@jed>heh. I just downloaded esr's 'doclifter' to translate man to DocBook
20:21<@jed>./doclifter doclifter.1 failed on its own man page
20:21<@heckman>They fixed it now so I only need to log in once for all the elements. I'm happy now. =]
20:21<fo0bar>jed: hehe
20:22<fo0bar>when I write man pages, I write them in DocBook and then use docbook-to-man. unless it's for a perl script, in which case it's easier to just do native POD
20:22<@jed>this thing is 8kloc, jesus
20:27-!-bayashi [] has joined #linode
20:28<linbot>robinetd: Yo momma's so ugly she couldn't get straterra to play with her! (737:19/1) [mmuor]
20:39<@heckman>This lemon / chinese ginger herbal strong
20:48-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #linode
20:50-!-snubby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
20:50<straterra>!dns6 2001:470:8a81:1:221:ff:fe16:a3ef
20:50<linbot>straterra: The query name does not exist.
20:50<straterra>It should, you bastard
20:54-!-billythekid [] has joined #linode
20:54-!-bixgomez [] has joined #linode
20:54-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:59-!-billythekid [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
21:01-!-joshdotsmith [] has quit [Quit: joshdotsmith]
21:06<Talman>Hey, guys. I bought some saffron bismati rice in a retort package. Its not bad, but it lacks heat.
21:06<Talman>Target doesn't seem to put hot sauce in their thai food.
21:06<straterra>Nothing some Tobasco can't fix
21:06<Nivex>straterra: I get NXdomain here too
21:07<straterra>Nivex: Yeah, I know
21:07<Talman>Yeah, but I'm out. Will pick up some death sauce tomorrow.
21:07<straterra>Nivex: I don't think Linode's DNS does RDNS for ipv6..but I forgot I switched delegation back over to HE
21:08-!-NiftyLettuce [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:11<@jed>you can slave whatever you want
21:11<@jed>including IPv4 rDNS
21:12<straterra>ipv6 :)
21:13<Nivex>maybe Linode should hire me to come develop their IPv6 presence :)
21:14<@jed>straterra: I was affirming IPv6 and adding IPv4
21:15<straterra>That works now?
21:15*straterra runs off to test
21:15<@jed>what do you mean now?
21:15<@jed>it's always worked
21:15<straterra>Crazy talk
21:16<straterra>jed: Interesting question..what about RFC1918 in regards to RNDS slaved to Linode?
21:17<straterra>And..what would I put in the domain field for the ipv6 arpa entry?
21:18-!-Audas [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
21:24<Talman>Hey, what's Good Reason to carry an offensive weapon in the UK?
21:25<@jed>straterra: as in, someone putting an RFC1918 rDNS zone in the system?
21:25<straterra>jed: yes
21:25<@jed>for the second question: the name
21:25<@jed>you can only slave those, btw, since you can't add PTR records in the DNS Manager
21:26<@jed>to go back to your first question, the DNS system doesn't care, just like someone can add and it doesn't care
21:26<straterra>But then wouldn't someone quering the Linode DNS servers get an invalid entry for
21:26<straterra>Granted..they shouldn't be doing that..
21:26<@jed>'DNS Servers' being ns1-ns5, no
21:26<@jed>pardon - yes, for ns1 through ns5
21:27<@jed>it won't go anywhere, the resolvers don't pull from that
21:27<@jed>the resolvers obey delegation, so the answer will always come from google's DNS ... not ours
21:27<straterra>I see
21:27<Internat>we proved that
21:27<Internat>cause during dns beta testing, i added ;)
21:27<Nivex>I know some DNS providers (eg: zoneedit) check to make sure the zone is delegated to them before permitting it to be entered
21:28<straterra>I dont need to add a trailing period to the arpa entry, do I?
21:28-!-carpenoctem [] has joined #linode
21:28<straterra>Bind over HTTP :P
21:28<carpenoctem>hey all, anyone happen to know how long a new dns zone takes to become active on linode's nameservers?
21:29<@jed>carpenoctem: what zone?
21:30<straterra>Now..I wait 15 mins and see if Linode replies with my ipv6 rnds
21:31<@jed>carpenoctem: zones are generated every 15. your SOA was refused from ns5, so you're probably going to be generated in this batch (:30 after)
21:31-!-mitchellhislop [] has joined #linode
21:31<carpenoctem>thanks jed
21:31<@jed>so ... another ten minutes or so, probably
21:34<straterra>Jan 16 21:32:38 projectstfu named[24673]: client transfer of '': AXFR started
21:34-!-gabrieluk [] has joined #linode
21:34<@jed>yeah, we're in the let's-do-some-stuff queue
21:35-!-mitchellhislop [] has quit []
21:36<gabrieluk>Hi,what you guys are using as php compiler to run Drupal sites in a vps dedicated only to 1 domain(not resselling)suphp or dso?
21:37<straterra>I wonder why my dns server gets so many damn recursive queries
21:39<@heckman>So, my lemon and chinese ginger tea was the worst purchase ever
21:39<straterra>Should have got schnapps
21:39<@heckman>Well...not worst. But unwise.
21:39<@heckman>-not 21
21:40<carpenoctem>jed, so the zone files are pushed out every 30 minutes on the hour? Just ffr.
21:41<@heckman>Every quarter hour
21:41<@jed>carpenoctem: 15 minutes for masters, as fast as you can notify (usually) for slaves
21:42<linbot>straterra: 2001:470:8a81:1:221:ff:fe16:a3ef,
21:42-!-carpenoctem [] has quit [Quit: carpenoctem]
21:43<straterra>jed: So..then I should be good to query then
21:44<straterra>!dns6 2001:470:8a81:1:221:ff:fe16:a3ef
21:44<linbot>straterra: The query name does not exist.
21:44<straterra>The bot is lame, but the name servers respond correctly
21:44<@heckman>He's not a bot. HE'S A REAL BOY!
21:44<bob2>Nivex: that's obnoxious :|
21:44<Nivex>bob2: eh?
21:45<bob2>Nivex: requiring delegation means you ccan't do downtimeless migrations
21:45<Nivex>I'm not with zoneedit anymore :)
21:45<@heckman>Nor am I
21:46<@heckman>I bounced a few weeks ago.
21:46<@heckman>I was just too lazy to migrate DNS and stuff over.
21:48<straterra>I found my Snow Tiger installation media stepdad found it in his stack of DVDs..weird
21:48<Nivex>Snow Leoparg?
21:48<Nivex>Leopard even
21:49<straterra>Same thing :P
21:49<HoopyCat>i schottky the diode, but i didn't schottky the transistor
21:50<Nivex>but did you schottky urmom?
21:52<@Perihelion>SNOW KITTY
21:52<straterra>I'm in the market to get a kitten
21:53<@Perihelion>I want 2 kitties
21:53-!-vraa [] has joined #linode
21:53<straterra>I used to have three kitties
21:53<@Perihelion>I used to have 2
21:53<straterra>Two recently died..but one was 19 years old
21:53<Nivex>what, your kitty is frigid?
21:53<straterra>The other was just..mentally retarded
21:53<@Perihelion>yeah one of ours was just shy of 17 and the other was 17.5 or so
21:54<straterra>She went blind and deaf..and still got around the house. Then her nervous system started going out..but she still got around..we had to put her down :/
21:54<@Perihelion>we had to put ours down too
21:54-!-saikat [] has joined #linode
21:54<straterra>Makes for a sad day
21:55<@Perihelion>one had trouble breathing and got really sick, the other started to go into kidney failure
21:55<@Perihelion>Yeah...we'd had them since I was 3 or so :<
21:55<straterra>Yeah..both of ours died from renal failure
21:55<straterra>Same here :/
21:56-!-Knight [] has joined #linode
21:56<straterra>Freaking pets
21:56-!-BBHoss [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:58<gabrieluk>noob question:does high loads sites run better as dso or suphp?
21:59<Knight>run better with a bigger pipe methinks
21:59-!-BBHoss [] has joined #linode
21:59<bob2>nginx and fastcgi yo
21:59<gabrieluk>thats for sure
22:01<gabrieluk>my dilhema.dso works with acp,but suphp doesn't give me drupal chmod issues...wich one,considering Apache only ,not nginx
22:02<gabrieluk>sure dso , iguess
22:02<gabrieluk>run as root
22:03<gabrieluk>cmon guys!where is your sense of humor? hehehe
22:04-!-gabrieluk [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]]
22:09<Ovron>what was that, I don't even...
22:11<straterra>jed: I'm about to throw this laptop :/
22:11<straterra>I have a view..drug two textfields on to it..launch it..and tapping the textfields doesn't bring up the keyboard
22:13<PKKid>If I added myself as a postgres superuser, is it safe for me to delete the postgres user's password?
22:14<PKKid>on the linux box (not the database).
22:16-!-Duke [] has joined #linode
22:18-!-storrgie_ [] has joined #linode
22:21-!-Knight [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:26*HoopyCat watches counter tick from 999 to 000
22:27<HoopyCat><3 working things
22:27<@jed>straterra: do they have a delegate?
22:28<@jed>ding ding ding!
22:29<@jed>maybe. I've never had luck with delegateless textboxes
22:30<@jed>on second thought, maybe not
22:30<@jed>I'm too intoxicated to think straight ... the OS gets finicky if you do something wrong in the code
22:31<straterra>I just nuked the view and gonna redo it all heh
22:31<@heckman>drunk coding ftw
22:31<@jed>you definitely need a view controller for things to work right
22:31<straterra>I do
22:31<@jed>you should have a view controller, and the view controller should reference the text boxes in question via the little drag-and-drop doohickeys
22:32<straterra>heh..deleted the view controller..added a new one, did everything EXACTLY like I did the first time..and it works
22:32<@jed>yeah, see?
22:32<@jed>the OS can be picky
22:33<amitz>are you guys talking about... VB?
22:33*amitz hides
22:33<@jed>no, Cocoa Touch
22:34<Ovron>There's nothing a VB GUI cannot solve!
22:34<amitz>ah... seriously, I assume there is no ....hmmmm expected linode android app within a foreseeable future?
22:37-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
22:37<Nivex>!leet so we can't even talk like this to avoid being heard?
22:37<linbot>Nivex: 50 w3 c4n'+ 3v3n +41k 1!k3 +h!z +0 4v0!d b3!ng h34rd?
22:37<Nivex>Ovron: ^^^
22:37<Ovron>that's no match for a VB GUI, sorry
22:43<amitz>I remember the days when Rapid Application Development is expected to cut the need of common programmers and enable business people to program...
22:43<amitz>perhaps microsoft is somewhat successful with its microsoft access?
22:46-!-BarkerJr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:57-!-Kane_ [] has joined #linode
22:57-!-Bass10 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:58<@heckman>amitz: once I get my Desktop moved down here I plan to begin working on one.
23:00-!-Kane` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:02<amitz>heckman: won't you become a pariah? for having a windows machine in a company called linode? :-p
23:02<@heckman>Not really. Perihelion has a Windows laptop. I game.
23:03<@heckman>And not games that will work on WinE either.
23:03<@heckman>If I didn't game, I don't think my machine would run Windows.
23:04<amitz>windows laptop in the office?
23:04<amitz>damn, the trap didn't spring well :-p
23:06<amitz>I currently have one installed windows that touches the bare metal, simply because I don't want the license to go wasted -_-
23:07-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:08<linbot>New news from forums: Blocking an IP Address with UFW in Linux Networking <>
23:11-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
23:11-!-jeru [] has joined #linode
23:11<jeru>admin around?
23:11<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
23:12<@heckman>jeru: What's up?
23:12<jeru>interested in purchasing
23:13<jeru>ot some questions before I "seal the deal" so to speak
23:13<@heckman>Easy enough. Shoot!
23:13<jeru>well - how stable/secure is linode
23:13<jeru>and if i have a domain - do you guys set it up?
23:13<jeru>or better yet - let me rephrase that.. if i want to purchase a domain - can i purchase through you guys also?
23:14<@heckman>We're not a registrar, but we do offer authoritateive DNS services for free when you have a Linode active on your account.
23:15<@heckman>We have a 99.9% uptime guarantee in our TOS. If you ask anyone here, Linode is very stable. The security falls on you entirely. When you deploy an OS it's a fresh install.
23:15<@heckman>We're an unmanaged provider, so the security of your OS would be your responsibility.
23:15<@heckman>And apparently I cannot spell authoritative.
23:16<amitz>jeru: do you come from a managed service? What kind of app are you planning to deploy?
23:17<PKKid>So, About DNA-A Records. Is it better for me to make a CNAME record of -> Rather than having two A records?
23:18<checkers>*DNS A records
23:18<jeru>I am new to it all
23:18<checkers>PKKid: either works
23:19<checkers>using a CNAME means you only have to update one record
23:19<bob2>avoiding CNAMEs is less like to confuse you one day
23:19-!-jeru2 [] has joined #linode
23:19<jeru2>my bad
23:20<amitz>jeru: can you describe your experience on linux? What's the short term purpose of this purchase? I believe learning linux on linode is a neat experience for many reasons.
23:21<jeru2>no need to learn linux
23:21<jeru2>I'm not a newb
23:21<jeru2>I'm just considering the linode service
23:22<PKKid>checkers, is there a way to just make sure they never hit the www domain. ie: redirect www.DOMAIN.COM to just rather than allow both?
23:22<bob2>yes, but nothing to do with dns
23:22<amitz>jeru2: ah okay then, I didn't have any idea where you are coming from.
23:23<jeru2>is linode stable/secure?
23:23<jeru2>ofc you're going to say yes but what kind of connection is linode sitting on?
23:23<Luizg_>jeru2: yes, security is up to you.
23:23<PKKid>bob2, So I should have django do that? ;)
23:23<bob2>jeru2: comcast cable
23:23<PKKid>or maybe apache?
23:23<bob2>PKKid: whatever your front end web server is
23:24<Luizg_>bob2: lol no, it's hosted on an iphone 4 on AT&T
23:24-!-jeru [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
23:24<bob2>jeru2: believe it's gigabit to a few providers in each dc, each linode has more bandwith than you can possibly use in, rate limited to 50mbit/s out
23:26<Luizg_>although I think you can get the out limit raised if you have a good enough reason?
23:27<@heckman>jeru2: incoming bandwidth is not capped, outgoing has 50mbit/s cap which can be raised on request (with technical justification)
23:28<nick125>heckman: You mean to tell me that I can't get uncapped just because I want to be able to tell my friends I have 100mbit out? :p
23:28<jeru2>well I'm def interested
23:28-!-nofilicity [] has joined #linode
23:28<jeru2>after purchasing how long does it take to setup account?
23:28<nofilicity>zone ./IN: has 0 SOA records | zone ./IN: has no NS records <= how can i fix this?
23:29<bob2>jeru2: instant if you don't get flagged for manual approval
23:29<bob2>nofilicity: by adding SOA and NS records
23:29<bob2>nofilicity: the zone file
23:29<nofilicity>but i have both
23:29<nick125>jeru2: Probably 20-30 minutes for the account to be activated, then you'll have to wait for your VM to be imaged..then it'll be ready for you to install whatever you need.
23:29-!-harrumph [] has joined #linode
23:29<nofilicity>bob2: the zone dump is empty. does this mean it hasn't been generated yet? i just added it
23:30<jeru2>512 / 768 - between those two which is best?
23:30<bob2>nofilicity: is this a "I'm using a web control panel thing and it seems to have fucked up" question?
23:30<jeru2>19.95$/mo + 29.94$/mo
23:30<jeru2>95 sorry
23:30<bob2>zone files are normally something you write
23:30<nofilicity>bob2: it would seem so
23:30-!-hypatia [~hypatia@] has joined #linode
23:30<jeru2>this cgi irc is garbage
23:30<nofilicity>bob2: i'm using linode's dns manager
23:30<nofilicity>bob2: should i redo the zone maybe?
23:30<bob2>nofilicity: oh
23:30<@heckman>jeru2: Depends on your memory usage.
23:31<bob2>nofilicity: you made an empty master zone in the dns manager?
23:31<bob2>nofilicity: or are you trying to configure linode to slave from you?
23:31<jeru2>well I'll just mostly be using it for irc
23:31<bob2>I didn't think we could make SOA/NS-less zones via the web thing
23:31<jeru2>and just for shits and giggles pretty much
23:31<jeru2>just for security so to speak
23:31-!-saikat [] has quit [Quit: saikat]
23:31<jeru2>not to be using my real host
23:31<nofilicity>bob2: i added a new master zone in the dns manager
23:32<nofilicity>bob2: i'm thinking it hasn't been past the "updated every 15 minutes" thing maybe?
23:32<@heckman>Go with a 512, you can always resize up later.
23:32<bob2>nofilicity: where do you see the '0 SOA rewcords' output?
23:32<nofilicity>I go to the "Check" link
23:32<jeru2>o explain what linode exactly is
23:33<@heckman>nofilicity: check it is.
23:33<@heckman>er...check it now.
23:33<nofilicity>heckman: hmm?
23:33<@heckman>It's after the quarterly update.
23:33<nofilicity>heckman: still the same
23:33<@heckman>Hm...might still be processing.
23:33<nofilicity>heckman: i redid it though: Last Updated: 2011-01-17 04:31:23
23:33<PKKid>bob2, Thanks for leading me the right direction, it was too easy to setup. ;)
23:33<bob2>PKKid: hot
23:34<@heckman>jeru2: A virtual private server hosting company specializing in Linux nodes =]
23:34<hypatia>how long does activation usually take?
23:34*hypatia is impatient :)
23:34<jeru2>I'm signing up
23:34<PKKid>hypatia, Took mine about 30 min
23:34<@heckman>hypatia: I pushed the magic button a few minutes ago
23:34<jeru2>heckman: you sold me
23:34<hypatia>heckman: yay, thank you!
23:34*heckman bows to jeru2
23:35<jeru2>after the month period - does it auto-renew
23:35<jeru2>or do I have to manually pay each month?
23:35<nick125>It autorenews
23:35<@heckman>First of every month it auto-bills
23:35<jeru2>might wait til morning, it's 10:35p
23:35<@heckman>Because of the date, you're going to be paid through the end of Feb however.
23:35<jeru2>and I gotta crash soon
23:35<@heckman>Due to proration.
23:35<jeru2>I am definitely sold
23:36<nofilicity>heckman: should i check again at 11:45 i guess?
23:36<@heckman>What's the domain?
23:36<jeru2>heckman: do you have AIM?
23:36<bob2>heckman: eh? I thought it was from the 20th
23:36<jeru2>brb real quick
23:36<hypatia>why is 32 bit preferred over 64?
23:36<bob2>hypatia: generally uses less memory
23:36<@jed>hypatia: memory, for one
23:37<hypatia>huh, i had no idea
23:37<hypatia>thanks ^_^
23:37<amitz>what? procreation?
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23:37<urej>damn registered nicks!
23:38<PKKid>Cool, so the last thing I need to setup on linode is my non-poor mans dyndns to point to my home computer. ;)
23:39<@jed>hypatia: memory references in 32-bit are 4 bytes wide, in 64-bit they're 8 bytes wide. in the theoretical sense, a 64-bit program's pointers will be double a 32-bit one's
23:39<bob2>I was lazier and CNAME'd to
23:39<PKKid>bob2, I hate getting those monthly emails that force me to login .;)
23:39<hypatia>jed: makes sense
23:39<@jed>hypatia: I tested this a while back, right off the bat 64-bit's memory consumption in a bare deployment was 40% that of 32-bit, and apache reflected roughly the same
23:39<@jed>sorry, 140% that of 32-bit
23:39<bob2>PKKid: hm, oops, I hope I haven't been missing those
23:40<PKKid>I think it's actually quaterly (not monthly)
23:40<hypatia>jed: wow
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23:41<@jed>there's applications where 64-bit makes sense. in the general case, a lot of integer math will be faster, which can be applied to image manipulation, audio/video transcoding, and so on
23:42<hypatia>i'm building a URL shortener on this
23:42<@jed>for almost every Linode usage, however, 32-bit makes more sense
23:42<hypatia>with SSL
23:42<@jed>yeah, go with 32
23:42<hypatia>will it make a difference for SSL?
23:42<@jed>SSL is very rarely the bottleneck, anyway
23:42<@jed>unless your entropy sucks, then it can get hairy
23:43*tharkun still thinks that unless you've got more that 4 GB ram 32 bits will suffice
23:43<@jed>32-bit will take you all the way to 64 GB under Linux
23:43<@jed>not for one app, but for the system
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23:45<StevenK>tharkun: That doesn't quite help -- you can address about 3.3GiB of real usable RAM under Linux, so I tend to jump to 64-bit at 3.
23:46<StevenK>Under 32-bit Linux, that is.
23:46<hypatia>ok... not to be fussy here... but asking me for a copy of my DL and credit card? not very PCI compliant :s
23:46<@heckman>hypatia: Delete that e-mail.
23:46<nofilicity>heckman: the issue was just the nongeneration, no errors now :)
23:46<hypatia>heckman: done :)
23:46<@heckman>nofilicity: That's what I figured. Good to hear that it's set
23:47-!-bixgomez [] has joined #linode
23:47<StevenK>hypatia: What does PCI stand for in that context?
23:47-!-jxpx777 [] has quit [Quit: Be back later]
23:47<hypatia>StevenK: PCI-DSS - payment card industry digital security standard
23:47<@jed>hypatia: you received that e-mail from our fraud detection system, it's just verifying your identity - heckman skipped that process for you
23:47<hypatia>thanks, heckman
23:47<@heckman>hypatia: More like I clicked the wrong thing, hahaa.
23:47<hypatia>i promise i'm an undergrad in Toronto, not a scammer :)
23:47<@heckman>I realized right after I did it. I failed.
23:47<hypatia>haha, well done
23:48<@heckman>Sorry for the extra e-mail, lol.
23:48<hypatia>happens to the best of us
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23:48<tharkun>StevenK: I have the idea that on 32 bits you could addres around 4.2 GB but i will take your numbers for granted. Since I don't have that much memory on my linode ;P
23:49<@jed>tharkun: there's a split. part of the (not really) 4.2 GB address space you're thinking of is kernel land
23:49<@jed>so yes, an unsigned long will go that high, but a gig or so of it is put aside for the kernel
23:50<@heckman>3.27 GB is the limit I believe.
23:50<@heckman>I could be off by a bit.
23:50<danieldg>0xc0000000 for userspace on linux in the default setup
23:50<StevenK>heckman: Yes, my brain is prompting "3.2 GiB ish"
23:50<StevenK>tharkun: And that's why I said *addressable* :-)
23:51<@heckman>urmom is addressable.
23:51<danieldg>the kernel can address up to 64G using PAE
23:51<tharkun>jed: ok i get the idea thx for the aditional information
23:51<bob2>used to be 896MB
23:51<StevenK>PAE makes me sad.
23:51<danieldg>PAE is a good hack
23:51<StevenK>But it's still that -- a hack
23:51<StevenK>I'd rather just run 64-bit. :-)
23:52<bob2>pae is aesthetically unpleasing, while highly practical
23:52<danieldg>the address space in 64-bit is much cleaner
23:52<warren>x86-64 can be faster than x86 because it has more general purpose registers, but it also uses more memory which often slows it down.
23:53<danieldg>depends on if your program is pointer-heavy or not
23:53<@heckman>The difference is minimal at best. I use 64-nit on my 512, and I've no issues.
23:53<@jed>warren: does gcc heavily use those yet?
23:53<@jed>last time I did any such development, gcc barely touched r8 and up
23:53<warren>dunno, I recall seeing benchmarks
23:53<danieldg>depends on the program. Yes, it does
23:53<hypatia>i'll probably do some benchmarking for my app on 32 vs 64
23:53<danieldg>for simple functions it won't
23:53<hypatia>just out of curiosity
23:54<danieldg>also, you get the benefit of being able to assume SSE exists
23:54<danieldg>whereas i686 binaries are often compiled without that assumption
23:54<bob2>which is good for covering up php bugs
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23:55<warren>PAE is required for 32bit xen kernels?
23:56<danieldg>for dom0, at least
23:56<warren>but not domU
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23:56<@jed>although it might come in handy if you're addressing RAM on a Linode 4096
23:56*warren tests that
23:57<danieldg>it'd be *required*
23:57<warren>yeah, but if you have anything smaller it is better to not use PAE
23:57<danieldg>if xen exposes any kind of PCI gap
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23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.54083793, 0.14907777) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17584 of 22366 (π ≈ 3.144773316641331 - 0.003180663051538)
23:59<danieldg>shouldn't it be ± there?
23:59<danieldg>or is that an actual error?
---Logclosed Mon Jan 17 00:00:32 2011