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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-01-30

---Logopened Sun Jan 30 00:00:03 2011
---Daychanged Sun Jan 30 2011
00:00<@Perihelion>What's everyone's forum software of choice?
00:00<dominikh>Perihelion: thinking of names is an important thing! else we'd all be running Freax on our servers now...
00:00<mbreslin>phpbb obviously
00:00<@Perihelion>dominikh: True, but naming it doesn't get it done any faster :P
00:00<HoopyCat>Perihelion: i'm probably going to say vbulletin, 'cuz i didn't realize we had it for a long while
00:00<@Perihelion>mbreslin: Looked at that one. It may be more complex than I need
00:00<dominikh>Perihelion: doing something is better than doing nothing. that's what I tell myself, at least
00:01<mbreslin>Perihelion: sorry i was joking, it's gross, and everywhere ;/
00:01<dominikh>sometimes I just stare at my screen
00:01<bung>anyone here using google apps for mail, is it possible to use multiple domains? i dont want to have to login at
00:01<bung>and if so, when you went through the steps, did you say domain1 was the production domain or testing domain
00:01<@Perihelion>You can set it up for multiple domains but you'll have to admin them separately afaik
00:01<pharaun>I'm used/comfortable with vbulletin imho
00:01<pharaun>no idea if its good or not, keep on hearing people complaining about it but eh
00:02<@Perihelion>I'm not convinced that I want to pay for forum software
00:02<HoopyCat>Perihelion: there's two kinds of oats
00:02<Ovron>xenforo might be an interesting one; made by the original vbulletin team
00:02<bung>can also use something like nabble to host your forum, then you dont have to worry about it
00:03<@Perihelion>I need access to the DB
00:03<@Perihelion>The forum will basically be the back end of an app
00:03<@Perihelion>I normally use SMF for such things but I'm getting kinda sick of it
00:03<Ovron>horrible spaghetti code <3
00:05<pharaun>SMF ?
00:05<@heckman>Simple Machines Forum I believe...
00:05<@Perihelion>simple machines forum
00:05<@Perihelion>I may just end up using drupal >_>
00:05<Ovron>or write your own, just the way you like it <2
00:06<@Perihelion>Did that once...
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00:06<Boohemian>hey, stupid question regarding imap and email servers in general: i have a postfix/dovecot/ssl email server setup (using IMAP and SMTP), does my email server save copies of incoming and outgoing emails, or once i take it outside my "Inbox" in my email client, it is forever off the server?
00:06<Boohemian>Ovron: may i pm you?
00:07<Ovron>uhm, sure
00:07<Ovron>IMAP generally does not delete emails afaik, and POP3 generally does, unless told not to
00:08<Ori>Boohemian: IMAP is - more or less - a way to synchronize mailboxes, not to download your mail.
00:09<Boohemian>so, where would i find out where i told postfix/dovecot to store emails?
00:09<Ori>by looking at the config file
00:09<Boohemian>i have all my emails stored on my computer that has my email client. i am trying to clean that up and want to know what is safe to delete and what isn't, this is why i asked my original question
00:09<Ori>it's probably in ~/Maildir/
00:09<Boohemian>Ori: of postfix or dovecot?
00:10<bung>the MX record creation information on does not match the Add MX page I see in linode manager
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00:10<HoopyCat>bung: i thiiiink the labels on the boxes are still the same, but those are less-recent screenshots
00:10<@heckman>bung: old images are old
00:10<@heckman>Sorry bout that =]
00:10<bung>no worries
00:11<Ovron>heckman: bring out mspaint and fix it!
00:11<Ori>actually, Dovecot would also have the location set up
00:11<Ori>so, either works
00:11<@heckman>Ovron: I have GIMP on my Mac =]
00:11<bung>i cant exactly break anything here, so im just gonna paste it in best i can
00:11<@heckman>here in the office, anyway
00:11<Ovron>heckman: mspaint is superior!
00:11<Ori>postfix delivers the mail to your mailbox
00:11<Ori>dovecot looks in that mailbox and provides the imap interface
00:11<@heckman>Ovron: I agree. Steve Jobs does not
00:11<HoopyCat>hang on guys, i'm on it
00:12<@heckman>Someone needs to make a Steve Jobs sprite in MS Paint
00:12<@heckman>3,2,1 go
00:14<Boohemian>Ori: thank you!
00:14<Ovron>om nom nom, loads of package updates to debian6 *feels the stable release getting closer*
00:15<Ovron>if I disappear, this computer has died from the update o/
00:15<@heckman>I was going to put Debian 6 on my netbook but it didn't like it so much...
00:16<Ovron>what happened?
00:17<HoopyCat>ok, had a little trouble matching the colors, but
00:18<HoopyCat>i left the filename the same so you guys can just drop that in there
00:18<Ovron>what... is that?!
00:18<@pparadis>HoopyCat: ... thanks :)
00:19<Boohemian>i decided not to replace my 13 macbook pro or 17 macbook pro after not being able to find a laptop with comparable battery life (my 17 mbp gets 3.5-4.5 hours and my 13 mbp gets 7-9)
00:19<Boohemian>too bad... i was hoping to save some money and get usb3
00:19<HoopyCat>welp, off to bed! glad i could help.
00:20-!-Shakedown [] has joined #linode
00:25<bung>thats so cool
00:25<bung>fucking kick ass
00:25<bung>pardon my french
00:25<linbot>purrdeta: 206623
00:27<bung>what's that for
00:27<linbot>pparadis: Point (0.24026566, 0.53122763) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17602 of 22385 (π ≈ 3.145320527138709 - 0.003727873548916)
00:27<linbot>heckman: Point (0.03498146, 0.63007381) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17603 of 22386 (π ≈ 3.145358706334316 - 0.003766052744523)
00:27<@heckman>!supa1337 [pi]
00:27<linbot>heckman: Po;|\|+ (0.20398177, 0.29459589) 1;3z \/\/;+|-|;|\| +|-|3 |_||\|;+ <;|2<13. |-|;+z: 17604 of 22387 (π ≈ 3.145396882119087 - 0.003804228529294)
00:28<bung>no phi :(
00:28<bung>maybe im speeling it wrong
00:28-!-DeepInTheFire [] has joined #linode
00:28<bung>nope that's right
00:28<bung>oh well
00:29<linbot>pparadis: Yo momma's so random, she was bigger after she got gzip'd! (840:5/0) [ummor]
00:29<@pparadis>!urmom vote up 840
00:29<linbot>pparadis: Voted up 840 [murom]
00:29<@heckman>RIGHT IN THE KISSER
00:31<bung>shouldnt that be on like uncyclopedia
00:31<@heckman>Oh #linode...
00:33<dominikh>"Havelock Ellis – British sexologist who was impotent until at age sixty he discovered that he was aroused by the sight of a woman urinating" ← poor chap
00:33<dominikh>and how did he avoid that sight for 60 years oO
00:33<@heckman>impotent sexologist...
00:34-!-ctd [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:34<bung>wonder how that happened
00:35<bung>dude is like 2 years old, in the bath or something, his mom decides to take a piss, he gets his first woody, his mom slaps him, he never gets hard again
00:35<bung>until he sees it again
00:35<bung>love it freud
00:36<dominikh>I don't want to know what MY mum did when I was 2 years old, then... must've been something pretty fucked up
00:37<Ovron>do you know what you just said dominikh?
00:37<dominikh>Ovron: I'm... not sure yet
00:38<dominikh>Ovron: what did I say?
00:38<@heckman>You were molested by your mom when you were two and have mentally blocked it out
00:38<Ovron>do you get a woody from seeing your mum?
00:38<Ovron>you implied you do
00:38<robinetd>I get a woody from seeing dominikh's mom.
00:38<dominikh>robinetd: yeah, and now finally pay your debts...
00:39<dominikh>Ovron: I did not imply that. Only that I get a woody by seeing weird stuff she must've done in my presence
00:39<robinetd>I have no debts bro :o
00:39<bung>lol nice link
00:40-!-robinetd_tmp [] has joined #linode
00:40-!-robinetd [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:40<dominikh>so I grossed out robinetd, interesting
00:40<robinetd_tmp>o_o interesting.
00:40<Ovron>he had modprobe'd morale_block
00:41<Ovron>kernel panic
00:43<dominikh>it sucks if your new website is so low-traffic that you can watch the terminal output of your webserver in real time and not miss anything.
00:43<robinetd_tmp>This interface seems to be extraordinarly slow.
00:44-!-robinetd_tmp [] has quit []
00:44<Ovron>dominikh: :D
00:45<@heckman>Blah, too bad I'm not going to have money. Otherwise I'd go to Norway in April. =(
00:46<Ovron>Why? :<
00:46<@heckman>Sensation White
00:46<dominikh>"To enable multi-line in a JLabel we have to specify our own LabelUI class that will render the multiple lines. Although the code shown below seems quite long, most of it is actually Swing code being reused" ← yeah, 'reusing' code is a good excuse for hundreds of lines of code for that... why do people like Java so much again?
00:46<pharaun>dominikh: here's your answer
00:46<linbot>java ENTERPRISE coder!
00:47<dominikh>I should've seen that coming
00:47<@Perihelion>heckman: I'll send pictures of vikingland when I go >:)
00:47<pharaun>dominikh: improving the world one singleton, factory, factoryfactory, factoryfactoryfactory at a time
00:47<Ovron>heckman: I have a feeling I need flash player for that site
00:47<dominikh>pharaun: it kind of sucks that my degree depends on me writing Java stuff :<
00:47<bung>how long does it usually take for the reverse dns setting to take effect
00:47<@heckman>Perihelion: I don't care about the land.
00:47<@heckman>I just want to go to that Arena event.
00:48<@Perihelion>I meant vikingland as a collection of people places and events
00:48<pharaun>dominikh: heh indeed, my school when i attended it was all guoho about java, they are starting to repent a bit and now got python for cs1-3, c++ for cs4
00:48<pharaun>so its an improvement :)
00:49<Ovron>my uni was teaching asm and C for Computer Science
00:49<pharaun>I went out of my way to not do java projects, but EVERYONE ELSE WANTS JAVA SND SUCKS ON THE JAVAENTPROSDAIFUSOFIASDF
00:49<Ovron>they had to close down the department due to too few students
00:49<pharaun>so i end up having to deal with javajavajavajava
00:50<pharaun>and now i'm working at a company that i am a drone enterprise java programmer.... go me :<
00:50<pharaun>Ovron: and i know it needs more cuda, but i don't think the management would like me embeding cuda code in their enterprise app :-p
00:50<Ovron>they are fools
00:51<Ovron>it needs more cuda
00:51<Ovron>if a problem cannot be solved with enough cuda, it isn't worth working on!
00:51<pharaun>i see my disclaimer about the management did not disassure you from saying it needs more cuda :-p
00:53<Ovron>pharaun: stompede into management tomorrow, and demand a cuda cluster
00:53<Ovron>well, ok, on monday.
00:53<dominikh>tomorrow is monday.
00:53<pharaun>just now, wow i just noticed lulz
00:54<Ovron>I havn't slept yet, it makes it in two days.
00:54<Ovron>Two sleeps before monday.
00:54<Boohemian>is it possible to run two websites, one running apache and the other running nginx on the same server (without making the user type in for the nginx server, if apache runs on 80)?
00:54<pharaun>hehe, why no sleep :<
00:56<dominikh>Boohemian: the one on port 80 will have to forward requests to the one on port 81
00:56<Ovron>Boohemian: if it has to be on the same IP, you could use nginx as a reverse proxy for apache
00:56<Boohemian>Ovron: that way gaining the benefits of nginx's speed?
00:56<Ovron>Boohemian: that way... enabling what you asked for.
00:57<pharaun>Ovron: not enterprise enough, needs 20 more machine, needs complicated java solution, and need runtime dynamic config files
00:57<dominikh>nginx won't make apache faster.
00:57<Ovron>pharaun: np
00:58<pharaun>Ovron: amitz will be sad
00:58<Boohemian>dominikh: really?
00:58<Ovron>he can take it, he is an enterprise coder
00:58<pharaun>ow :>
00:58<Ovron>Boohemian: no, nginx injects code into apache's running process and speeds it up.
00:59<Ovron>That may be a lie.
01:00<dcraig>I inject code into Ovron and speed him up
01:01<@pparadis>bow chicka wow wow
01:01<@pparadis>dcraig: would that be a high temperature bovice injection?
01:02<@pparadis>bovine, rather
01:02<dcraig>holy cow
01:02<@pparadis>beef, it's what's for dinner.
01:07<Boohemian>Ovron: if i had two IPs, i could have both apache and nginx running on port 80 ?
01:08<@heckman>But why?
01:08<@pparadis>of course you could, but as heckman said, why?
01:08<@pparadis>you can easily just proxy back to one from the other.
01:08<bung>oh didnt realize sendgrid was non-free
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01:09<bung>is sendmail sufficient to send out mail when using google apps for everything else?
01:09<Boohemian>well, a prospective client is somewhat apprehensive about moving from apache, as they already host one site with it
01:09<bung>i only need outgoing mail from php sites
01:09<@pparadis>Boohemian: so set things up on a test system first (which is what you should do anyhow).
01:10<@pparadis>golden rule: don't screw with production.
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01:10<@pparadis>bung: what distro are you on?
01:11<@pparadis>that ^
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01:11<bung>necessary for outgoing mail?
01:11<bung>i dont want incoming
01:11<bung>trying to have really low resource usage
01:11<@pparadis>yes, that will happily send outgoing mail only.
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01:11<bung>ok thanks
01:11<bung>is it small?
01:12<bung>nice :) "Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid)"
01:12<bung>double nice "lightweight Exim MTA"
01:12<bung>thanks dude
01:15<tonyyarusso>Is there a good comparison of exim and postfix somewhere?
01:15<tonyyarusso>I find it curious that Ubuntu defaults to postfix and Debian defaults to exim.
01:15<bung>Boohemian: I like nginx so far, my first day using it
01:16<@pparadis>tonyyarusso: you just asked for a holy war.
01:16<bung>it seems to be using php-cli instead of php-fpm but i guess ill figure that out later
01:16<tonyyarusso>pparadis: Yeah, well.....
01:16<@pparadis>bung: php-cli means PHP command line interpreter.
01:16<@pparadis>bung: i believe you meant php-cgi?
01:16<bung>i think
01:16<@pparadis>as in "via fastcgi"?
01:17<@pparadis>yes, that's a common setup (nginx + php/fastcgi), one i run myself for several servers. it works great.
01:17<bung>its really a bit confusing nginx+php-fpm
01:17<@heckman>TEA'S DONE! \o/
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01:17<bung>i just heard good things about php-fpm
01:17<bung>but whatever works i dont really care
01:17<@pparadis>bung: do not buy into the php-fpm koolaid^H^H^H^H^H hype
01:17<tonyyarusso>pparadis: is there a particular feature difference, or just preference stuff?
01:17<bung>im happier now that you say its good
01:18<bung>what can i say, newbs buy hype :)
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01:18<@pparadis>tonyyarusso: both are MTAs. both work well. both are reasonably resource efficient. use what you're comfortable with. YMMV :)
01:18<dominikh>don't buy into the "php-fpm is a hype" antihype either ;)
01:18<bung>im happier now that you say nginx+php/fastcgi is good
01:18<tonyyarusso>all righty
01:18<bung>dominikh: lol
01:19<@pparadis>bung: a lot of people latch onto newish stuff and start hollering about how awesome it is, etc. the truth of the matter is simply this: fastcgi is incredibly well supported, and extremely high performance when configured correctly. php-fpm isn't even in most major distros yet for "LTS type" releases, and thus you get to compile PHP yourself (and mantain it yourself) if you want to go that direction. probably not the wisest choice.
01:19<@pparadis>i prefer to spend my time building cool stuff, not building and maintaining servers.
01:21<@pparadis>but the tuner/tweaker crowd likes to shout all day long about this, all the while failing to actually produce any useful code or any usable systems in general.
01:21<bung>i used a stackscript with it, and have since disabled that on startup
01:21<@pparadis>it's kinda funny and sad at the same time.
01:21<bung>im not going to bother :)
01:21<bung>i guess i should google about "correctly configuring fastcgi"
01:21<@pparadis>bung: or you could follow the library guides.
01:22<bung>for fastcgi?
01:22<bung>oh lemme check that one
01:23<bung>looks like the same thing
01:23<bung>i think i did that
01:23<@pparadis>i wrote the one i linked you to, along with the perl/fastcgi guides.
01:24<bung>ah the wgets look different
01:24<@pparadis>btw, most of those wgets are going away.
01:24<bung>hows that
01:25<@pparadis>the actual file contents are going back into the guides (they were in code blocks before), so folks can easily read them and just copy and paste. it's about restoring transparency and ease of recognition to those guides.
01:25<bung>if i run your guide over an existing setup, that'll work yea? its just updating defaults/config
01:26<@pparadis>i really would recommend starting with a fresh deployment. if you like, you can shrink your disk image to make room for that.
01:27<bung>totally fresh? man ive done so much work today on a fresh one already, sshd/users/groups/sudo/permissions/screen/irssi/nginx/phpmyadmin/java/php.ini/piwik
01:27<@pparadis>if you've already set all that up, and it's working, why deviate from anything?
01:28<@pparadis>unless of course your goal is to make sure you understand exactly how your system works, in which case i wouldn't start with a stackscript at all, i'd start with a bare system and follow library guides.
01:28<bung>well i just want to make sure i got my fastcgi configured
01:28<@pparadis>you figure that out by testing it.
01:28<bung>your guide just uses two different shell scripts
01:28<bung>can i just update mine
01:29<@pparadis>i'm not going to tell you to do anything like that. i *am* going to tell you to carefully examine the differences between the guides and your system's current state, and act accordingly.
01:29<@pparadis>let me be honest: if you're not experienced with this stuff, you're going to wind up breaking things a lot, redeploying a lot, and learning a lot in the process.
01:29<@pparadis>everyone goes through that, and there are no shortcuts.
01:29<bung>yep thats what im going through now
01:30<bung>im going to examine the two guides in more detail
01:30<bung>but after the php-fpm one didnt work, i went through the link i posted
01:30<bung>so im sure i can figure it out
01:30<@pparadis>so don't try for any shortcuts. shrink your current disk image to make room for another deployment, follow guides step by step from a bare system.
01:30<bung>unfortunately today is my main day, tomorrow i got to do moving and chores
01:31<bung>and then work on monday
01:31<@pparadis>btw, if you're running 10.04 and have php-fpm on that system, it came from a custom compiled instance of php and likely nginx.
01:31<@pparadis>in which case, start over.
01:33<bung>im actually paying for a second linode right now to do this stuff, i did not want to deal with partitions on my "production" lamp
01:33<bung>so i will just wipe it i gues
01:33<@pparadis>stackscripts are great for automating system deployments. they suck for actually learning what you're doing.
01:35<@heckman>Unix thingies?
01:35<@pparadis>yes, that.
01:35<bung>yea i was kinda hoping for automating a deployment lol
01:35<bung>guess i picked a bad one to do that with
01:36<@pparadis>bung: that's a terrible idea when you have no clue what's actually happening behind the scenes, because when things somehow break, you'll be up the proverbial shit creek without a paddle.
01:36<@pparadis>learning is the answer :)
01:36<bung>at the end of the day ive done everything before except nginx/fastcgi
01:36<bung>just been a year and a bit since i did it
01:37*pparadis hasn't done anything at all that he wanted to over the last three hours, gonna go work on that stuff now.
01:37<@pparadis>see ya'll later
01:37<bung>in other news, in order to justify the expensive of running a second server for a bit, my production machine had a record number of users on today :)
01:37<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:37<auraka>heckman: how is my request going....has the dick cake been ordered?
01:37<thorrr>mmm python 2.7 compiled
01:37<auraka>pparadis: don't leave us
01:38<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:38<bung>auraka: actually a guy at work got his wife a dick cake for her 30th
01:39<bung>with balls and sperm and everything
01:39<bung>fondant of course
01:39<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:39<auraka>bung: wait....was his dick in the cake or are we talking actual dick cake
01:39<bung>or icing
01:39<@heckman>auraka: I tried to submit the request but mikegrb dropped his fly and said "I have a dick cake right here for you"
01:39<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:39<bung>an actual dick shapped cake
01:44<auraka>you guys sure are friendly in the office
01:44<@heckman>Only way to move up in the company, gotta know how to please the developers.
01:45<auraka>heckman: you got a little something on your lip
01:45<@heckman>It's definitely not my dignity.
01:45*auraka nods
01:46<bung>does rebuild wipe anything in dns manager?
01:47<bung>i should be able to get back where i was quickly enough, just gotta deal with mysql now
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01:48<techhelper1>pparadis: is there a way to restore the os
01:48<@heckman>rm -rf /
01:48<techhelper1>without reimaging it all
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01:49<@pparadis>techhelper1: are you asking if you can deploy a fresh copy of $whatever_distro alongside what you already have?
01:49<bung>by the way, should you guys flip the order of these iptables commands
01:49<@pparadis>techhelper1: what are you asking?
01:49<techhelper1>can i restore the os files itself
01:49<techhelper1>without losing my data
01:49<@pparadis>are you talking about restoring from a linode backup?
01:50<techhelper1>i don’t have a backup
01:50<@pparadis>you are welcome to shrink your current disk image, deploy a fresh copy of linux alongside it, mount your old disk image in your new configuration profile, boot it up, mount the old disk image, and copy data over.
01:51<@pparadis>you cannot deploy a fresh copy of linux onto existing disk images.
01:51<@pparadis>in other words, "no"
01:51<@heckman>Unrelated to the Linode platform: I think OS X is the only modern OS that allows you to do that and does a good job at it.
01:51<@pparadis>heckman: huh?
01:51<techhelper1>damn, not to name names but there is another hosting company that does that
01:52<techhelper1>the restore is a tar file that overwrites the system files
01:52<@heckman>pparadis: With OS X you can restore the system files without blitzhing user info.
01:52<@pparadis>heckman: um, ubuntu/redhat/mandriva/opensuse/etc all do a fine job of that if you want...
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01:52<@heckman>Sorry,I meant to add by default
01:52<Ovron>I have returned! mwhahahaha
01:52<@pparadis>you can tell them not to screw with /home ...
01:52*pharaun runs away
01:52*heckman leaves too
01:52<@pparadis>in fact, i believe ubuntu even has options for recognizing existing installs on the desktop and handling the nicely now.
01:52<Ovron>you guys defo need more cuda
01:53<@heckman>Ah, I've not had to mess with recent Ubuntu installers and that.
01:53<@heckman>Anytime I've done an Ubuntu install has been on a fresh drive.
01:53<pharaun>finally finished up on this stupid resume generator
01:53<pharaun>still got some ypath stuff but meh
01:53<Ovron>resume generator?
01:53<techhelper1>oh btw pparadis, it is hard to copy data over when there is only 1gb of space
01:53<bob2>it even adds them to te grub menu
01:53<@pparadis>techhelper1: that question doesn't make a lot of sense...
01:54<pharaun>Ovron: ya, i have my resume in yaml :3 and I was wanting to create a simple resume generator that would dump it into random format as needed as long as i had a template for that format :)
01:54<techhelper1>linode 512 − 16gb hdd
01:54<techhelper1>1gb of free space
01:54<@pparadis>you either have space or you don't. if needed, you can add extra disk space from the "extras" tab.
01:54<@heckman>You could temporarily add extra storage...
01:54<@pparadis>are you actually using all the space on your current disk image?
01:54<@pparadis>you probably aren't.
01:54<@pparadis>!library manage disks
01:54<linbot>pparadis: 1. Manage Web Content with FlatPress ( - 2. Configuration change management with Puppet ( - 3. Using the Linode Manager (
01:54<Ovron>pharaun: oh you mean resume with swirly thing which I for some reason can't do on this computer >:(
01:55<@heckman>!library resize
01:55<linbot>heckman: 1. Resize a Linode ( - 2. Manage Linode Disk Images ( - 3. Linode Billing (
01:55<pharaun>Ovron: swirly?
01:55<@pparadis>but not perfect
01:55<Ovron>pharaun: the thing on the ending e :p
01:55<techhelper1> /dev/xvda 16G 15G 1.5G 91% /
01:55<@pparadis>well then, time to add moar disk.
01:55<@heckman>moar geebeez
01:55<techhelper1>the problem is to find the budget to add the space in
01:55<Ovron>pharaun: reverse `, which I can't do, for some reason
01:55*pparadis makes good on the "running off to get back to work" bit.
01:55<pharaun>this ?
01:56<bung>techhelper1: is it a seedbox?
01:56<Ovron>maybe, I can't see them, they become questionmarks *investigates locale settings*
01:56<Ovron>hmm en_US.UTF8, *ponders further*
01:56<pharaun>Ovron: nah, just some jinja2 template stuff, I wrote Jinja2 template in latex and i was just working on a simple program to do yaml -> jinja2 template, had to do some filtering, some date/time parsing, etc bs and i made a nice config file which allow me to mix/match and re-order how i want the resume to be arranged/etc
01:57<pharaun>Ovron: its pretty nice, a little "over-engineered" i guess but considering i wanted to use this for pdf, html, text, rtf->doc, etc... the hell, might as well do it right the first time
01:57<Ovron>pharaun: my CV is in word2010 \o/
01:57<Ovron>from which I then generate a pdf, ps, html, txt and rtf :p
01:57<pharaun>Ovron: i just get sick of updating the resume in 20 location so i went meh just put it in yaml and write a generator :p
01:57<Ovron>rofl, "slightly" overkill
01:57<pharaun>Ovron: i don't like word :-p
01:58<pharaun>Ovron: my resume was in latex and it sucked to convert it to other format so i figured a template + resume in yaml would be the easiest
01:58<Ovron>I have had to use my CV twice in my life; and the second one was really a formality ;p
01:58<Ovron>but I guess that comes with the territory of being an ENTERPRISE coder
01:58<pharaun>Ovron: heh pfft, nah i'm just looking into maybe hopping jobs so I probably will need to generate crapload of "customized" resume for each company
01:59<pharaun>bit of learning exercise too, was wanting to template up my website
02:00<pharaun>for repeative stuff
02:00<Ovron>Mr. $firstName "pharaun, a.k.a. ENTERPRISE JAVA CODER" $lastName.
02:00<pharaun>that's amitz's domain, not mine :-p i want out ;-;
02:01<pharaun>Ovron: but i suppose this is also just another format of procrastinating :> I'm pretty bad with that ha
02:02<Ovron>pharaun: walk in there, and tell them they are at loss if they don't hire you!
02:02<pharaun>Ovron: its on the other end of the country, 3000+ miles :-p
02:02<Ovron>another ENTERPRISE?
02:03<pharaun>nah bunch of jobs that was looking at in SF
02:03<pharaun>some were "enterprise" but they were non-java enterprise :-p
02:03<pharaun>or more smaller company or etc i guess
02:03<Ovron>there's other things than java in ENTERPRISES?
02:03<pharaun>yah, c# + and others
02:03<Ovron>amitz would laugh at you
02:04<pharaun>Ovron: indeed he would
02:04<Ovron>well, at least visual studio is nice, so that's an upgrade :p
02:04<pharaun>I suppose, never liked it but
02:04<pharaun>never really gave it a fair chance i guess
02:05<Ovron>hehe, I quite like it - although I do prefer just an editor.
02:05<Ovron>and separate tools for the rest
02:05<pharaun>Yeah that's how i usually do thing, vim for editing stuff, eclipse for "generating" the code
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02:08<pharaun>Ovron: like i said, its more procratingating for most part :-p
02:08<pharaun>cra*s*ting *sigh
02:08<pharaun>Ovron: on UTF8 thing, chekc your fonts, if they sdon't support the char, they replace it with <?> or something else usually
02:09<pharaun>could be encoding issue but eh
02:11<pharaun>Ovron: anyway off i go, bedtime nite o/
02:11<Ovron>good night o/
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02:25<@heckman>Yo dawg I heard you like ETAs. So I put an ETA on the ETA so you can wait while you wait.
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02:36<bung>hey pparadis in your guide, why do you use www-data for the group ownership of /srv/www/ folders/files
02:36<bung>isnt that an apache thing?
02:37<bung>hmm cat /etc/group says not
02:37<bung>guess i dont have to make my own group
02:38<@heckman>for nginx?
02:38<@pparadis>bung: www-data is the default user and group for web content, for both nginx and apache.
02:38<bung>just getting auto permissions when touching files in there ala
02:38<avenj>pparadis: do you sleep?
02:39<@pparadis>(on ubuntu, that is. red hat derivatives probably use httpd)
02:39<bung>those steps seem to "include" www-data
02:39<@pparadis>avenj: i wait.
02:39<@pparadis>bung: let me repeat, when you install nginx or apache from the repositories, the system user and group "www-data" will be used by default.
02:40<bung>i just want to avoid having to manually chown/chgrp stuff in there
02:41<bung>if i add a user to www-data, anything they make is available to nginx ?
02:41<bob2>why would apache own html files?
02:41<bung>ideally im going to do those steps listed so i can have a group of people able to manage files in my site
02:41<bung>i like how it works
02:41<bob2>right, btu as above
02:42<dcraig>the web server only needs to read files to serve them
02:42<bob2>www-data should at most own crappy cache dirs
02:43<bung>works for me
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02:50<dcraig>I'm reading bob2 right now
02:50<dcraig>and writing to his "cache"
02:52<Ovron>piping him?
02:54<bung>does suhosin get installed automatically these days?
02:56<bung>pparadis: has the last comment on your guide been validated/fixed?
02:57<@pparadis>bung: that's not a deal breaker.
02:57<@pparadis>that comment is alarmist in nature, but it doesn't affect functionality.
02:58<@pparadis>i have actually moved that directive out of that block in an updated version that'll go out early next week, but... meh :)
02:58<bung>damn, i spent 10hours doing stuff slowly, and just redid the whole thing in 1.5hrs fast
02:58<@pparadis>you get used to things ;)
02:58<bung>much easier once you got all the links read already
02:59<bung>i just gotta get piwik and phpmyadmin goin and im there
02:59<bung>i lost the pretty html5 hello world page i put together on the last attempt
02:59<bung>lol whatever
02:59<Ovron>"This works. Putting root inside of a location block will work and it's perfectly valid. What's wrong is when you start adding location blocks. If you add a root to every location block then a location block that isn't matched will have no root. Let's look at a good configuration."
03:00<Ovron>meh, I wouldn't even call it alarming
03:00<Ovron>"If you fuck up with the configuration, it won't work" - hurr durr
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03:04<@pparadis>Ovron: like i said, the commenter was of the typical "zomg holy crap" variety, without understanding what he was talking about :)
03:04<Ovron>myes :)
03:06<bung>if i add a subdomain server {} config in nginx do you also have to do dns manager changes?
03:07<bung>im guessing Yes and an A record
03:11<bung>hmm not getting any love with that, but its time for bed, will look at it in the am
03:11<bung>thanks for all the help Ovron bob2 and pparadis :)
03:11<Ovron>don't think I did much, but you're welcome!
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03:22<amitz>Ovron: ENTERPRISE coders are usually thanked periodically. by enforcing a strict multi-layered protocol for problems escalation, the temporary problem (or what users naively call bug) will be rendered irrelevant by the passing of waiting time. the users, none wiser, will think that it must somehow be the diligent work of ENTERPRISE coders
03:25<amitz>Ovron: keep up the cheering, one day you will earn the right for the alias of !Ovron to have the same content with !amitz.
03:25<linbot>java ENTERPRISE coder!
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03:40<dbinoj>my primary OS is wondows xp
03:40<Peng>My condolences
03:40<Ovron>I don't really like cornflakes.
03:41<dbinoj>haha.. sorry, my last chat message wasnot delivered
03:42<@heckman>I love Windows 7.
03:43<Ovron>win7 is nice. But it still gets horrible when you have had it installed for long, and use it a lot during that time.
03:43<praetorian>it doesnt beat my linux desktop.
03:43<@heckman>Hm, let's see how well your Linux desktop plays Call Of-- oh wait.
03:43<praetorian>I have windows or the ps3 (or the mac?) for that
03:44<Ovron>console lolol
03:44<praetorian>but i find i can work more easily on my linux desktop
03:44<@heckman>I don't do console gaming as that requires me to have a TV
03:44<@heckman>And a console...
03:44<Ovron>heckman: or a monitor with hdmi/dvi
03:44<@heckman>Still requires me to have the console
03:45<@heckman>I only using it for gaming.
03:45<Ovron>If you play games, you unfortunately need windows. He doesn't really have a choice :p
03:45<praetorian>i only bought a tv, because i got a free console, 3d stuff and movies and games
03:45<@heckman>If I didn't game, I'd be using Linux full-time.
03:45<Ovron>as would I, but alas
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03:46<Ovron>SpaceHobo: well yes.
03:47<dbinoj>Ok guys here it is. i am basically a a programmer. have used linux. but i have no experience in setting up and running a linux based web server . will i be able to set up a linux based web server get used to run a production in a month? my primary os is wondows xp
03:47<dbinoj>a production website
03:47<Ovron>If you're going to be producing cakes, probably not.
03:47<encode>written in what?
03:47<Ovron>It would take more time than that.
03:48<@mikegrb>mmm cake
03:48<dbinoj>oh. a PHP site
03:48<encode>what kind of load are you expecting?
03:48<encode>install the linode LAMP stackscript (or the one with nginx)
03:48<encode>should take an hour or so
03:48<dbinoj>mimimal load. i wont be getting a 10k hits / mth easily
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04:02<dbinoj>my concerns are that since i have no experience in setting up and running a AMP setup on linux, will i be able to make the server ready to go live in 1 month for hosting?
04:02<dcraig>I think you could figure things out in a month
04:03<dcraig>a great place to start is the library
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04:03<@heckman>Linux is pretty easy. It's just daunting at first.
04:03<qaliad>dbinoj: how many hours do you have available for this over the month?
04:03<dcraig>heckman is pretty easy
04:04<@heckman>When I was a kid I was amazed, lol. I'm amazed how many Linux commands/tricks I don't know.
04:04<@heckman>dcraig: What can I say...chicks with a nice pair are my kryptonite.
04:05<dbinoj>2 hrs per day
04:05<qaliad>2 weeks, max
04:06<dbinoj>thank you for ur support guys
04:06<Ovron>heckman: do NEVER try the "urmom" command
04:06<Ovron>it will explode your computer
04:06<dbinoj>@dcraig: thanks for the link man
04:06<Ovron>@dbinoj #not_twitter
04:07<dcraig>also, ubuntu seems to be the most popular distro around here, so if you have no preference regarding distros, you might benefit from going with something lots of other people use
04:07<Ovron>or the proper version of ubuntu, debian
04:07*Ovron runs
04:07<Peng>Do Twitter tags support underscores?
04:07<dcraig>there are more step-by-step guides in the library for some distros than for others, etc.
04:08<Ovron>I don't know. But this isn't twitter. So my pseudo-twitter message-style does.
04:08<dbinoj>oh... i have seen people use CentOS for webservers
04:08<dcraig>some people might
04:08<dbinoj>is ubuntu beter than CentOS?
04:08<Ovron>different flavor, deciding on "better" is difficult.
04:09<dbinoj>oh. ok ok...
04:09<dbinoj>oh. ok ok...
04:09<qaliad>the packages are newer
04:09<dcraig>if you define "better" as "more users in this chat room are familar with it" then maybe
04:09<dcraig>but who knows
04:09<dcraig>if ubuntu seems too newfangled, you might like debian
04:10<dcraig>I really have no idea :p
04:10<Ovron>or, try slackware.
04:11<dcraig>if you're already familiar with centos or redhat, then it might be a good choice
04:12<au>dcraig: ubuntu has newer packages, if you still like the red hat / centos structure, try fedora :)
04:12<dcraig>I use ubuntu
04:12<Ovron>fedora? for a production server?
04:13<au>Ovron: yes
04:14<dcraig>my linux experience started with a ubuntu desktop I set up, and then I started helping "administer" a friend's debian server, and then my desktop became mostly a server, and I've just stuck with ubuntu
04:14<Ovron>considering it is the testing bin for rhel, I am not sure I'd agree.
04:15<qaliad>dbinoj: if you're following tutorials, find comparable ones for centos and ubuntu and see which makes more sense to you
04:15<qaliad>you don't want to waste a lot of time on questions like this though, they will both get the job done
04:15<dcraig>ubuntu 10.04 LTS sounds like a great choice! :D
04:17<Ovron>is every second a LTS, or every fourth?
04:17<dcraig>it's been the spring release in even-numbered yeras
04:17<dcraig>so every fourth
04:17<Ovron>so same cycle as debian is aiming for now, as of squeeze
04:21<qaliad>I can't believe php has no finally {}
04:24<@heckman>They want to release a new Debian every two years?
04:26<Ovron>heckman: yep
04:28<praetorian>so the next release of debian will have a twitter client
04:29<praetorian>suppose its not as bad as RH still having python 2.4 as the current.
04:30<praetorian>(3 years between 5 and 6)
04:31<@heckman>Ah yeah
04:31<Ovron>2.6.6 on deb6
04:31<praetorian>Python 3.1.3
04:32<praetorian>.. here
04:32<Ovron>and my deb5 install has 2.5.2
04:32<Ovron>well, I have a 3.x something as well, in a separate path <3
04:32<praetorian>2.5 is getting long in the tooth.
04:33<praetorian>Ovron: ah. Arch (Linux) decided to make python 3 the default version
04:33<Ovron>loads of tools depend on it, so don't really want to touch the main installation of it :p
04:33<praetorian>mind you .. i change /usr/bin/python to always point back to python2 atm.
04:33<dcraig>is arch like the new gentoo or something?
04:33<Ovron>not sure if there are breaking changes between 2.5.2 and 3.x, probably
04:33<dcraig>I can't keep up
04:34<praetorian>its rolling-release like gentoo, but binary packages.
04:34<praetorian>Ovron: heaps.
04:34<praetorian>they had to go thru alot of packages .. to change it to /usr/bin/env python2
04:34<praetorian>most python installs dont actually have a /usr/bin/python2 either)
04:34<praetorian>so they had to add a symlink there.
04:35<praetorian>2.5 .. is from September '06!
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04:35<bixgomez>How do I chmod for a specific user?
04:35<praetorian>chown ?
04:35<Ovron>chown --help
04:38<Peng>bixgomez: What do you mean? Do you want to change who owns a file?
04:38<bixgomez>Peng: yeah, it seems that is what was needed, thanks!
04:39<praetorian>no worries.
04:42<praetorian>heckman: Danica McKellar.
04:44<@heckman>What about her
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04:46<Guest2113>Hey, im having an issue with my website. yesterday i setup all the domain name ftp etc and it was working. today i started adding another domain to it and when i went to check the site it no longer worked with the www. before it.
04:46<Guest2113>not sure how this happened but does anyone have any ideas?
04:47<Tiven>Guest1547 what webserver?
04:47<Tiven>i cant help you then :/
04:47<Peng>Guest2113: What do you mean by "no longer worked"?
04:48<bixgomez>Peng: tell me this, though -- when I chown, am I *changing* ownership, or *adding* an owner?
04:48<chesty>run host
04:48<Tiven>changing bixgomez
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04:49<Guest2113>well. it was weird. last night i was able to go to it was working. now it only works if i remove the www. and just type in so it is working but not properly.
04:49<praetorian>heckman: *watches wonder years*
04:49<Tiven>make another vhost and add
04:49<praetorian>no no
04:49<bixgomez>Tiven: hmm, I am confused. See, I used to do everything as root, which I realize is bad -- but ever since I changed to using a user account, it's not been so easy to, say, upload via FTP, etc.
04:50<Guest2113>already done that.
04:50<praetorian>whats the domain?
04:50<chesty>Guest2113: you need to provide error messages, not "it doesn't work"
04:50<Tiven>bixgomez its just getting used to it mate
04:50<Peng>Guest2113: redirects to for me.
04:50<Peng>Guest2113: and the latter loads fine
04:50<bixgomez>Tiven: but, for example -- I created a user, made him part of www-data
04:50<Guest2113> is it working. doesnt work for me.
04:50<bixgomez>Now I created a site via ssh
04:50<Guest2113>and its just a page not found issue
04:51<bixgomez>But I don't have permission to make changes via SFTP
04:51<praetorian>yeah, no dns record for www.
04:51<dcraig>there's no A record for
04:51<bixgomez>Until I chown to the user I created, then it works
04:51<Peng>!dns6 a
04:51<linbot>Peng: The read operation timed out
04:51<Peng>!dns6 ns
04:51<Tiven>yes, give read-write- on owner
04:51<Tiven>then change the group to www-data and give that at least read
04:52<Peng>!dns6 ns
04:52<Tiven>and like you did, owner on user you want to upload files via ftp
04:52<Peng>Guest2113: should not have an NS record. It's probably what's screwing things up.
04:52<Peng>Guest2113: Instead it should just have an A record.
04:52<Guest2113>i have ServerAlias in my etc/apache2/sites-available file.
04:53<bixgomez>Tiven, so -- I chown -R someuser path/to/webroot
04:53<Guest2113>i just added that thinking it may help the situation
04:53<Peng>Guest2113: It won't.
04:53<bixgomez>Tiven - and then ...
04:53<dcraig>peng, there ain't no NS record for www...
04:53<Tiven>chown -R someuser:www-data /path
04:53<Peng>dcraig: Yes there is.
04:53<bixgomez>Ah, ok!
04:53<Guest2113>there was i just removed it
04:53<Tiven>and check if it works, if not we will check the permissions
04:54<Peng>Guest2113: Alright, we'll have to wait another 6 minutes for the zone to regenerate.
04:54<dcraig>well that removal sure was fast ;)
04:54<Peng>Guest2113: And an unknown amount of time for your DNS resolver to stop caching the old value.
04:54<Peng>I've never seen 'dig' get into a loop and spit out something about bad horizontal referrals before. :D
04:54<BBHoss>Peng: you've done well
04:55<Guest2113>so in thoery. if i have the server allias in the /etc/apache/-sites/ it should work? there is nothing else i need to do?
04:56<bixgomez>Tiven: ok, so I did those things...
04:56<Guest2113>strange as thats how it was this morning. I must have messed something up while adding another virtualhost
04:56<bixgomez>Tiven: ....but I am getting an error, "The user account used by your web-server - www-data - needs to be granted write access to the following directory" -- I am installing CiviCRM on Drupal, BTW.
04:57<Tiven>hold on
04:57<Tiven>775 i think
04:57<Peng>Guest2113: The DNS issue may be your only problem
04:58<Guest2113>I hope so. The wife is at home today and she will kick my arse if i spend all day again doing this.
04:58<Tiven>or 774
04:58<bixgomez>Tiven: 775 it is...
04:58<Tiven>774 is safer too ^^
04:59<Tiven>but yeah does it work now?
04:59<bixgomez>Tiven, yes, it does -- what is diff bet 774 and 775?
04:59<Tiven>775 gives to other users execute priviledge also
04:59<Tiven>774 gives only read
05:00<bixgomez>Tiven: hmm, I am once again getting the error
05:01<Tiven>did you -R ?
05:01<bixgomez>I did
05:01<Tiven>so where are you getting the error?
05:01<bixgomez>it's in this installation UI for CiviCRM
05:01<bixgomez>one of the checks pre-install is "Is the sites/default/files folder writeable?"
05:02<bixgomez>and it seems it is not...
05:02<Tiven>check the folder's permissions
05:02<bixgomez>The user account used by your web-server - www-data - needs to be granted write access to the following directory in order to configure the CiviCRM settings file: /var/www/drupal/scaroadside/htdocs/sites/default/files
05:02<bixgomez>Tiven: in the past I have just 777'ed the whole lot, but I believe that is BAD
05:02<Tiven>yeah it is
05:03<bixgomez>but I can't 755 for just www-data, can I?
05:03<Peng>Guest2113: works for me now.
05:03<Tiven>well, in 755 for example.. 7 is for owner 5 for group and 5 for the world
05:03<bixgomez>oh I guess 775 is, essentially, 777'ing for www-data
05:04<bixgomez>so 7, owner, www-data
05:04<Tiven>you could try 777 for a second and re-run that check
05:04<Tiven>and see if it works now
05:05<bixgomez>yes, that does work...
05:05<Tiven>thats weird
05:05<bixgomez>maybe I am chowning incorrectly
05:05<bixgomez>tell me -- what does it mean to chown -R www-data:www-data
05:05<bixgomez>as opposed to username:www-data
05:06<Tiven>it will change ownerership recursively to www-data and group to the second 'www-data'
05:06<dcraig>in the first case, www-data is the username that owns the file, and in the second case username is the username that owns the file
05:07<bixgomez>Tiven: hmm, a little confusing to me. but then again, it is 2am here and I must arise in 5 hours, so...
05:07<bixgomez>thanks for your help, I will digest more tomorrow!
05:08<Tiven>ok mate
05:08<Tiven>go rest and you'll fix it tomorrow :)
05:09<@heckman>praetorian: I watched it back when it was on Nick at Nite when I was a kid. Haha.
05:09<Ovron>www-data shouldn't be the owner, but that is another story, and you really shouldn't have execute bit on user-uploaded content
05:10<@heckman>I had a TV in my room when I was little because I was awesome like that.
05:10<praetorian>heckman: old are you?
05:10<praetorian>it was still on tv .. when i was a kid
05:10<@heckman>I'll be 21 in about a month and a half >_>
05:10<praetorian>Do you know what the A: and B: drives are for?
05:10<@heckman>A:\ would be floppy
05:10<praetorian>just checking!
05:11<Ovron>A: and B: were the previous versions of C: in older versions of windows
05:11<dcraig>which floppy?
05:11<@heckman>tough one...
05:11<praetorian>a: was of course 5 1/4
05:11<@heckman>My Windows 3.1 machine was pretty awesome as a kid.
05:12<@heckman>I cannot remember which drives were mapped what
05:12<Ovron>no networking?!
05:12<praetorian>i remember having netscape 3 installed
05:12<praetorian>i didnt have the internet
05:12<praetorian>but i had netscape!!
05:12<Ovron>internet explorer 3, yo
05:12<@heckman>I was an AOL 2.5er
05:12<praetorian>(maybe it was pre-3)
05:12<dcraig>I'm responsible for a machine that originally had win 3.1 on it and has since been upgraded to NT 4 :(
05:12<praetorian>so it went, crap->worse
05:13<Ovron>*responsible*, present time?
05:13<dcraig>I'm not sure there are XP drivers for the ISA cards in the machine
05:13<Ovron>what does it do? :o
05:13<praetorian>my latest pc doesnt even have a pci port.
05:13<praetorian>(only pci-ex)
05:14<dcraig>there are actually two machines, and they run lab instruments
05:14-!-SleePy [] has quit [Quit: sleep(mt_rand());]
05:14<@heckman>Or do the lab instruments run them?
05:14<praetorian>be lucky they run either way.
05:14<Guest2113>Peng: thanks. its not working for me yet. but i presume it will eventualy.
05:14<dcraig>they actually work great!
05:14<Ovron>ah, right - we still have a seriously old computer running a seriously spectrophotometer as well; just used for showing students the old equipment basically :p
05:15<dcraig>the only problem is that we're filling up the 2-GB C:\ partition
05:15<Ovron>seriously old *
05:15<Guest2113>thanks for all your help. by the way. really appreciated. :)
05:16<Ovron>the new equipment can turn itself on, self-calibrate, run self-tests and make you coffee before you set foot in the office
05:16<praetorian>does it webscale tho?
05:16<Ovron>I bet it could if it wanted to!
05:16<Ovron>and I bet ENTERPRISE coders wrote the software for it
05:16<Ovron>I bet amitz is involved
05:16<Ovron>that's a lot of betting.
05:28<dcraig>way to kill the chat d00d
05:29<Peng>Guest2113: You're welcome. :)
05:30<Guest2113>:) out of interest. how long does a change to nameserver take?
05:30<@heckman>What do you mean. Changing them with your registrar, or updating your entires in the Linode Manager?
05:31<Guest2113> used to use bluehost and i changed the domian names to point to the linode nameservers. been waiting a while.
05:31<dcraig>I now get an A record when I look up
05:31<Peng>Guest2113: Depends on the TLD.
05:32<Guest2113>ok thanks. once again you have been very helpful :)
05:32<Peng>Guest2113: .com, for example, accepts changes immediately. However, the TTLs are set to 172,800 seconds -- 2 days -- so clients may have the old values cached for that long.
05:32<Peng>Guest2113: Of course, some clients are idiotic and cache things forever no matter what you set the TTL to!
05:33<Peng>Guest2113: Note that this is about changing your name servers from to or whatever; it's different from just changing the IP points to or whatever.
05:34<Guest2113>I didnt know that. I just presumed it was almost the same. just pointing somewhere.
05:35<Peng>Well, on some level it's technically the same. It's about changing records on a name server through an interface. The former case just involves the name servers of the TLD and the interface of your registrar.
05:35<Peng>(OK, now are you more or less confused? :P )
05:36<Guest2113>a little :p
05:36<Guest2113>but google is my friend. I should really research this alot more. theres just alot to reseach :)
05:37<Peng>The Linode Library is also your friend.
05:37<Guest2113>ive had some crazy problems but most of them ive fixed so far.
05:37<Guest2113>yeh. i have been using that alot.
05:37<Guest2113>i was following an article on there this morning that aparently was really out of date. which is why i thought i had broken everything this morning
05:38<Ovron>Guest2113: which article?
05:38<Guest2113>i put in a ticket and they said dont use it. and gave me another.
05:39<Ovron>that's the wiki, not the library
05:39<Peng>On a related note, I have a stupid question. What exact queries does a recursive name server make, e.g. for looking up IN A? Obviously it queries .'s name servers for com. IN NS, then com.'s name servers for IN NS, but then what?'s name servers for IN NS, then it gets a reply saying that's name servers are authoritative, and then it asks them for IN A, or what?
05:39<Peng>Did that get broken into two lines or truncateD?
05:39<Ovron>it ended with "IN A, or what?".
05:40<Peng>I do have enabled, but wasn't sure how it would display it on my end.
05:40*Ovron notes down, for later download
05:40<hawk>Peng: No, it doesn't query the root servers for com. IN NS
05:41<Peng>hawk: Oh?
05:41<Peng>lrwxrwxrwx 1 mnordhoff mnordhoff 37 2010-05-18 11:43 .irssi/scripts/autorun/ -> /usr/share/irssi/scripts/
05:41<Peng>No download involved. :D
05:41<hawk>Peng: It queries the root nameservers for IN A and the root servers respond with authority information as they don't have th at data themselves
05:41<praetorian> /z 62
05:41<Peng>hawk: So the root servers receive a horrific number of queries for everything?
05:42<Guest2113>so another quick question just to see if i am getting the hang of this. say i wanted to create i would create another virtualhost for it and just point it to another directory?
05:42<dcraig>they cache the nameservers for .com, etc.
05:42<Peng>OK, wait, I think I'm thinking of this the wrong way.
05:42<hawk>Peng: Well, the caching nameserver doing the lookup pretty quickly gets enough data in the cache to not have to spew everything at the root servers
05:42<dcraig>so they wouldn't necessarily have to get a huge number of queries
05:42<bob2>Guest2113: and another A record, yes
05:43<Guest2113>coool.. and again thanks. :)
05:43<Peng>So when it does IN A, it remembers com.'s name servers for the future and will use that cached result for future queries to or whatever?
05:43<dcraig>most queries that reach the root nameservers are actually silly queries... see
05:44<dcraig>peng, right
05:44<Peng>dcraig: Indeed. I'm noticing various things like "somecdn.comhttp" or stupid typos I make in my logs. :X
05:44<hawk>Peng: Yes, at least after it sees the authoritative response from the com. servers
05:44<Peng>OK, that should've been obvious, but that's where I went wrong. Okay.
05:44<dcraig>the .com nameservers have a 2-day TTL
05:44<Peng>I can't connect to
05:44<dcraig>so a recursive resolver should only need to ask the root servers for those every 2 days
05:44<Peng>!dns6 aaaa
05:44<linbot>Peng: 2001:4f8:3:2bc:1::72
05:45<Peng>Presumably it's down, and my stupid client doesn't retry.
05:45<dcraig>foiled by ipv6!
05:45<Peng>dcraig: Indeed! The lack of retrying is a real problem. (Probably my proxy's fault.)
05:45<Peng>dcraig: I've only run into a handful of busted websites, though.
05:46<Peng>Connecting to|2001:4f8:3:2bc:1::72|:80... failed: Connection refused.
05:46<Ovron>it works fine over ipv4!
05:46<Peng>Ovron: Yes, but my client is stupid and won't retry in v4.
05:46<Ovron>Peng: ah
05:46<Peng>dcraig: Yeah, I know what it is. I haven't always had IPv6 enabled. :P
05:47<dcraig>I have ipv6 enabled and that site works for me
05:47<dcraig>though I don't know whether I reached it via ipv6
05:47<Peng>Oh, there's also some website that results in a DNS query for "images."!
05:48<hawk>I have ipv6 and it works for me too... probably falls back to ipv4 as it doesn't seem to want to respond on that ipv6 address
05:48<Peng>You two have IPv6 enabled? How? I'm proxying through my Linode with its HE tunnel... :D
05:48<dcraig>I have a HE tunnel on my home computer
05:49<Peng>Ah. I have a really dynamic IP and a really terrible route to HE. :D
05:49<Peng>at home
05:49<dcraig>and my laptop at school automatically gets an ipv6 address of some sort
05:49<hawk>Peng: On linode I have a HE tunnel and at home my router has a HE tunnel and advertises my prefix to the local network
05:49<Peng>hawk: Fun.
05:49<dcraig>one of those 6to4 addresses that starts with 2002:
05:50<hawk>Peng: I wish I didn't need the tunnels, but it works fine
05:50<Peng>hawk: Yeah, native would be more fun, but it's still cool.
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05:51<Peng>Heh, I've only ever used old crappy routers, so even a WRT54G with custom firmware and a half-busted 6to4 tunnel would seem cool to me. :D
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05:56<hawk>Peng: Well, it's a little bit fun to stay with the times... even if you have to jump some hoops to do so
05:58<Peng>Yeah. I've always been very wary of breaking my LAN, since it would be a pain to fix, even if it barely works in the first place. Right now I'm borrowing someone else's network so I have an excuse not to do anything. :D
05:59<Peng>Actually, now I want to do something. That's where the laziness and not wanting to spend money comes in. :D
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06:00<Peng>802.11g routers are so passé, but 802.11n routers are still being developed, and good ones are pretty pricey.
06:00<Peng>I don't mean "being developed", but it's an actively developing field.
06:00<Peng>Hear hear!
06:02<Peng>Hmm, time flies when I'm bored on the Internet. brb
06:03<Peng>Honestly, half the time I'm online I'm bored out of my skull, and yet hours can still go by.
06:04<Ovron>they sure do
06:04<Ovron>irc is like /dev/null for time
06:05<Peng>I wouldn't mind spending hours online enjoying myself, but hours online bored? Ugh.
06:05<Peng>(Note: IRC = not boring. When it's...not...boring, anyway.)
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06:07<dcraig>watch your cars evolve on
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06:07<dcraig>nothing boring about that!!
06:08<Ovron>Your creation?
06:08<dcraig>no, but I've had it on all day
06:10<hawk>It's kind of fun to watch.. every now and then it produces something mildly successful
06:10<dcraig>tomorrow most of your cars will be reasonably good
06:10<dcraig>at least that's been my experience
06:11<dcraig>it only breeds the good ones from each generation
06:11<Peng>How much CPU/RAM does it eat?
06:11<Peng>I have limited supplies of both.
06:12<dcraig>I'm using firefox, and plugin-container.exe is using 48% CPU and 31 MB of RAM
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06:12<Ovron>single-threaded :(
06:12<hawk>about 15-20MB ram and as much cpu as it can get (for a single thread) it seems
06:13<dcraig>it hasn't slowed down mirc any......
06:13<hawk>Well, there is a frame rate slider, which I would assume can be lowered to reduce cpu usage
06:16<hawk>stafamus: Abort, abort!
06:16<dcraig>this ain't vi
06:16<Ovron>vi, the next emacs. Now with IRC.
06:17-!-harrumph [] has joined #linode
06:17<Peng>AltGr+SysRQ: Aborts emacs or vi!
06:18<Ovron>except when emacs is running as the kernel
06:22<hawk>(Nope, I don't know what that slider does but it didn't affect cpu usage)
06:23<dcraig>just nice your browser or whatever
06:24<dcraig>hey, it uses like 0% CPU if you switch to another tab and it doesn't have to actually draw the cars
06:24<dcraig>ta dah!
06:24<Ovron> is it actually still working?
06:25<dcraig>we'll find out...
06:25<dcraig>lol, it doesn't seem to
06:27<dcraig>I can't believe I left this running all night but didn't have it as the active tab :(
06:27<dcraig>now it's in its own little window
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06:28<Ovron>someone needs to write a cuda/openCL version of it
06:29<Ovron>at a distance, it sounds like it might be parallelable
06:32<dcraig>well I have lots of illegitimate children (all living simultaneously!), so it seems the cars could, too
06:33<Ovron>well, gpgpu parallelization is a bit different than spawning separate processes; you're more limited, and not all algorithms that can be spread across normal threads, can be done in gpgpu, as we know it today.
06:33<Ovron>but if you can do it, it is damn fast <3
06:34<hawk>Indeed... however atm this thing doesn't even multithread at all
06:35<Ovron>yeah :(
06:35<Ovron>and made in flash...
06:36<Peng>You know you're a computer geek when you're discussing rewriting a toy for performance. :P
06:36<Ovron>it needs more cuda.
06:37-!-bixgomez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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06:38<hawk>Peng: "Genetic algorithm car evolution using box2d physics" (and with a page dedicated to discussing the algorithm) is the toy of the computer scientists, I'd say...
06:39<Peng>That's true :O
06:39<Ovron>oh, that slider is mutation rate
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06:41<Peng>So it's, like, how strong to hit them with the xray beam to make them turn into mutants?
06:41<qaliad>earlier versions of that toy were a lot less cpu-intensive, but the parameters were narrower (all candidates had wheels)
06:41<dcraig>pffft... why would you want a car with wheels?
06:45<qaliad>hm, I dunno now, maybe it's subjective
06:45<Peng>I'd like a car with wheel.
06:48<qaliad>I think the google cars have that
06:49<qaliad>...i'm the superuser of my turbo diesel cruiser...
06:53<Peng>urmom is the superuser of my turbo diesel cruiser
06:54<qaliad>urmom is the operator of my pocket calculator
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06:56<@heckman>Dude that generator fails!
06:56<@heckman>My car is driving fine and it regenerates
06:56<qaliad>heckman: see the comments
06:56<qaliad>it just needs to pass a threshold to reproduce
06:59<Ovron>your offspring is worthless heckman
07:00<praetorian>who cares about your car. we care for your wallet.
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07:00*praetorian winks
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07:01<Cromulent>ah that car thing is cool
07:02<@heckman>Dear #Linode today is the 30th of January
07:02<@heckman>A date which will live in infamy. The day in whic the IANA pool experiences total IPv4 exhaustion.
07:03<praetorian> says a few more days.s
07:03<praetorian>i think you are early.
07:03<@heckman>I dunno, another site is estimating today
07:03<Ovron>Depends if urmom is having a snack today or not.
07:03<@heckman>praetorian: I have the widget on my mac.
07:03<praetorian>!urmom is so fat, that she needs ipv6
07:03<linbot>praetorian: Yo momma's so fat, when she went to the beach, the tide came in! (829:3/0) [murom]
07:03<@heckman>I also have another that's saying one day
07:04<Peng>heckman: The date in which Linode announces native IPv6...? :D
07:04<@heckman>The same day we implement it?
07:04<Peng>Well, nobody's gonna die from the IANA running out. Now, the RIRs, that'll be interesting.
07:04<praetorian>/topic * #linde - Apply for your Brand New NAT Address Today - http://console.linode/natmynode
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07:06<praetorian>great.. APNIC has the least /24 's left :<
07:07<Peng>Whee. I hadn't done that yet today.
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07:10<SirSquidness>praetorian: time to hoard now!
07:10<Peng>I do not have a
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07:15<@heckman>heading home
07:15<straterra>But its 7:15!
07:15<@heckman>10p - 7a
07:16<straterra>that sucks
07:16<straterra>enjoy the home time
07:16<@heckman>Not really
07:16<@heckman>nice and relaxing.
07:16<straterra>I s'pose
07:16<straterra>I like drinking saturday night though
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07:32<Guest2113>I have another quic question aboyt hosting multiple sites on my box. Ive changed the nameservers to point to ls1.linode etc. added another virtualhost file with all the aliases and directory location and so on but it is still not working. i thought i might need to add it to the DNS manager in the linode manager but i dont think that is the case as its showing up as so im not sure what else I am missing. i checked thedn
07:32<amitz>i like sleeping every day.
07:32<Peng>Guest2113: You may have gotten cut off at "i checked thedn"
07:33<Peng>Guest2113: What still isn't working?
07:33<Guest2113>ahh sorry. 1 second. i did go a bit crazy there.
07:33<Peng>Guest2113: How exactly did you get ""? Where is it?
07:33<Guest2113>No A records exist for
07:33<Guest2113>well. that is me just messing about. i went to the linode dns manager on the control section
07:34<Guest2113>i have removed that now as its clearly not correct
07:34<Peng>Indeed, the Linode DNS manager does not appear to serve the zone
07:35<Guest2113>that is what i was guessing. thats why i thought if i added another NS record. but thats not where I am meant to do it.
07:35<Guest2113>i thought i would need to add what I think is called an SOA record.
07:35<Peng>Click the "Add a domain zone" button and add
07:36<Peng> and are separate zones.
07:36<Guest2113> i didnt look at the menu before. :/ i will check that out and it should work now.
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07:37<Peng>None of's records should be in, unless you really want Which you could do, but then it would just be part of
07:37<Peng>I mean, in theory, you could do it. In practice, it sounds like a pretty crazy thing to do. :P
07:38<Peng>(Actually, CDNs do it all the time, but that's neither here nor there...)
07:38<Guest2113>no that wasnt the intention. i just did not see the add a new zone option which was me just having tunnel vision and jumping ahead
07:38<Guest2113>added the new zone now so hopefully it wont take long to update and allow me on the site
07:39<Guest2113>im just going to clone the current zone and then make any changes needed.
07:40<Peng>The DNS manager regenerates the zones every quarter-hour, so you've got about five minutes to go.
07:40<amitz>there should be a dns zone editor with built-in automatic tester, there is a market for it.
07:40<Peng>amitz: Built-in automatic tester?
07:40<Peng>Hopefully your DNS resolver didn't cache any bad results, forcing you to wait forevers for it to work for you. :D
07:40<Guest2113>nce again. you have been ver/nick snohaus
07:41<Peng>amitz: That's what dig is for! :D
07:41<Guest2113>does it reset every 15 mins or at 00/15/30/45 etc
07:41<straterra>Every quarter hour
07:42-!-Guest2113 is now known as snohaus
07:42<snohaus>and before that i was meant to say very helpful. not ver/nick snohaus
07:42<Peng>Yes, many people say I'm very /nick snohaus. :D
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07:43<amitz>Peng: but dig is after the fact (after dns zone change is applied), no?
07:44<Peng>amitz: Ahh, that's what you mean. One could run a test DNS server, I suppose.
07:44<Peng>You know, like a development web server.
07:44<amitz>and dig is not really testing, the reading is still greek.
07:44<qaliad>I like that idea, amitz
07:44<amitz>(forgive me people of greece!)
07:45<Peng>amitz: When you're writing Greek, you need a Greek tester. :D
07:45<straterra>dig isn't that bad if you understand DNS
07:45<Peng>Ideally, if you're working with DNS, you would learn enough that dig makes sense.
07:46<amitz>the automatic tester will basically port probe and test the response of ip address of that port.
07:46<Peng>amitz: That's what dig does.
07:46<straterra>DNS isn't THAT difficult
07:46<Peng>!dns6 a
07:46<Peng>snohaus: ^
07:46<Talman>Huh, I had a samba panic 20 minutes ago.
07:46<straterra>I mean..once you learn it isn't smoke and magic. The data follows a logical path
07:47<Talman>While I'm aware I run a smb server, I have never had one panic before.
07:47<Peng>Even if you partially understood it wrong, like me!
07:47<qaliad>'the data follows a logical path'.....they say that about mod_rewrite
07:47<amitz>Peng: i don't think so, for example dig doesn't test if at least a port exists in the referred ip address.
07:47<straterra>amitz: and it shouldn't
07:48<straterra>No need to confuse and mix DNS with reachability
07:48<straterra>qaliad: Except..DNS is really easy
07:48<Peng>Mixing DNS with reachability is a good way to make sure you didn't typo your IP or something.
07:48<snohaus>amazing. that has worked :) i just didnt set the permissions correctly so on that now. and i think finally i am fully set up
07:48<qaliad>agree. I have a dns host that provides 'rewrite' records, where a hostname is mapped to a http address
07:48<amitz>straterra: it shouldn't, yes, but it helps noob to write a correct dns zone.
07:48<qaliad>as if https didn't exist, for example
07:49<Peng>I'm not sure I've ever actually typod a DNS record -- except when screwing up some -- but I always check carefully for it.
07:49<Peng>I think I *did* typo something once.
07:50<qaliad>as long as you set 15min-ish ttls you can't do too much damage
07:50<@ericoc>dont screw up serial numbers - a missing digit can be pretty hard to track down :/
07:51<Peng>D: !
07:51<Peng>I've forgotten to update serial numbers a couple times. Fortunately, that does minimal damage.
07:51<straterra>ericoc: I've moved to using EPOCH for my serials
07:51<Peng>I think I did the missing digit thing once too.
07:52<@ericoc>i just use the linode dns manager and dont worry about serial numbers now
07:52<Peng>ericoc: put me down the road of editing zone files, and now I'm addicted!
07:53<Peng>I make DNS mistakes pretty frequently, but I obsessively test everything and always catch them. Except for once, but I don't remember what the problem was.
07:54<Peng>Anyway, it wasn't serious. :-\
07:54<@ericoc>i cant actually remember the last time i made a dns change on my own zones
07:54<straterra>ericoc: I turned off my slaving to Linode last week :x
07:55<Peng>straterra: Eh eh? What'd you do?
07:55<straterra>I turned on DNSSEC
07:55<Peng>I should do that.
07:56<straterra>Just in time too... .com is getting signed in a couple months
07:56<Peng>AFAIK DNSSEC tools aren't at the "fun" stage yet.
07:56<straterra>I find future proofing fun :x
07:56<Peng>Ha, the future! It's never gonna happen.
07:58<amitz>in retrospec, i just realized that i'm not sure of the most common errors of people setting dns zone.
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08:01<@ericoc>ive seen quite a few people add zones to the linode dns manager with the beginning "www." and then realizing that the parent domain wont resolve
08:01<snohaus>right guys. i have to pop off. thanks for your help and I am sure I will be back
08:01<snohaus>have a good day
08:01<amitz>you too.
08:02<amitz>ericoc: so put a warning on missing that, i guess.
08:02<@ericoc>but they have a "www" record too so "" works! :)
08:03<straterra>It's a web that's multiple worlds wide
08:03<amitz>oh well, perhaps a built-in automatic tester is not necessary. those seem to be catchable.
08:04<amitz>heh, i'm not even sure i get that right now...
08:05<Peng>Everybody misuses the terminology even I don't know what it means.
08:06<Peng>I mean, I understand the concept, just not what to call it!
08:06-!-snohaus [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
08:07<amitz>the year is 2011, SpaceHobo gets his revenge on an innocent, Peng.
08:08<amitz>hence the cycle of smugness continues.
08:08-!-getsmart [~getsmart@] has joined #linode
08:08*amitz hides ;-)
08:09<Peng>$ ack-grep CNAME *.zone | wc -l
08:09<Peng>Yes way.
08:09<Peng>ericoc: :D
08:09<@ericoc>how many zones though
08:10<Peng>ericoc: 5 total, but the CNAMEs are only in 2.
08:10<Peng>Yeah, it might be getting a bit excessive.
08:11<Peng>SpaceHobo: ack-grep -c and grep -c seem to show the totals per-file. Which is not what I wanted, the first time.
08:11<straterra>Heh..They're talking about all the snow on the news. I thought 'global warming' would help with snow
08:11<@ericoc>i have like.. 2 zones with a total of 25 records? (thats including NS/SOAs!)
08:12<@ericoc>the only cnames are mail. for google apps
08:12<Peng>SpaceHobo: Plus, I tend to trade CPU-efficiency for learning-efficiency. ack-/grep -c requires reading the man page; wc -l is something I already know
08:12<Peng>I tend to use CNAMEs as the equivalent of HTTP redirects, aside from other uses.
08:13<amitz>straterra: i'm under the impression that global warming means more extreme weather, both ways heat and cold.
08:13<Peng>Most of my CNAMEs are at least tenuously justified as ways to solve stupid problems.
08:14-!-firefly^^ [~firefly@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:14<Peng>Now, the number of DNS records I have in general is less justified. :P
08:15<Peng>$ wc -l *.zone | tail -n 1
08:15<Peng> 385 total
08:16<straterra>amitz: I'm under the impression its a load of scaremongering crap :x
08:16<Peng>straterra: In a couple billion years, global warming will get so bad the earth will melt!
08:16<straterra>SpaceHobo: Not really
08:17<straterra>Considering we have very little historical weather data..
08:17<BBommarito_>Global Warming, nah. We are entering a mini ice age.
08:17<linbot>Peng: 2001:4860:8009::65,,,,,,
08:17<BBommarito_>Was predicted in the late 70s.
08:17<amitz>well, not sure what is correct but one thing for sure, this year's weather is so extreme that many ships can't set sail on major coast.
08:18<Peng>Global warming and a mini ice age can be going on at the same time, you know.
08:18<Peng>There is more than one factor to the temperature of the earth.
08:19<BBommarito_>Peng: Agreed, which is why I cannot agree with the whole GW debate. Granted, I like to see non-partisan facts, but hey that's me.
08:19<Peng>There's a debate?
08:20<Peng>And they eat sugar!
08:20<straterra>AND BREATHE AIR
08:20-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
08:21<straterra>There must be a connection between climate change and sugar!
08:21<straterra>And pirates!
08:21<BBommarito_>There is a debate: One side (Biased usually) says "OMG, if we don't pay extra money we will die", one side says "That side is biased, we don't believe it."
08:21<Peng>BBommarito_: One of those sides is a complete moron.
08:21<Peng></not very helpful>
08:22<Peng><not very helpful>
08:22<BBommarito_>I myself don't believe the GW talk until I see numbers that come from someone who won't make money off of GW.
08:22<qaliad> 'Examines the science and arguments of global warming skepticism'
08:22<bob2>BBommarito_: yeah
08:23<bob2>BBommarito_: climate scientiests are all billionaires, see
08:23<straterra>I find the same people who blindly follow the climate change stuff also blindly follow evolution :O
08:23<Rob>sidenote, while i have no opinion here, calling people who dont agree with you "flat earthers" and "young-earth creationists" makes your argument way weaker :)
08:23<Peng>bob2: The only reason they're not billionaires yet is the tireless efforts of the deniers!
08:23<BBommarito_>bob2: The problem is, the numbers that are put out, are all put out by this agency or that that are affiliated with the government, or some carbon trading group or whatever.
08:23<bob2>or their oil-future-shorts haven't come up yet
08:23<Peng>Rob: I know, that's why I said I was being unhelpful.
08:24<straterra>s/someone/someone's ego/g
08:24<qaliad>I've yet to see a prominent skeptic whose main line wasn't 'if you just read my book, you'll understand. it's only $17.99 + p&p'
08:24<bob2>I think this conversation would be best had in EBDIC
08:24<bob2>on an AS/400
08:24<Peng>bob2: How energy-efficient are those?
08:24<bob2>Peng: AFFIRMATIVE
08:25-!-duckley_linode [] has joined #linode
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08:26<Peng>I'm always concerned when two people join at the same time/.
08:26<Peng>I think they're ganging up on me.
08:26-!-xijiao [~xijiao@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:26<Peng>Oh, whew.
08:26<qaliad>those who refuse to 'blindly follow evolution' are condemned to blindly get left behind by it
08:26<duckley_linode>people join in buincheswhen something looks buggered...
08:26<Peng>qaliad: Not really?
08:26<Peng>duckley_linode: Indeed!
08:27<qaliad>'not really' isn't a question, Peng. :)
08:27<Peng>duckley_linode: Whenever the channel gets dull, I like to launch a DDoS.
08:27<qaliad>just so you know
08:27<Peng>qaliad: You can't opt out of evolution because you don't like it.
08:27<qaliad>I don't think that's what I said
08:28<duckley_linode>Is summat up then?
08:28<Peng>duckley_linode: No?
08:28<bob2>holy shit UTF-EBCDIC
08:28<Peng>Question mark abuse!?
08:28*bob2 sometimes wonders if the party continues
08:29<duckley_linode>Must be me then; time for a reboot...
08:30<Peng>SpaceHobo: How old is your kernel?
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08:32<Peng>Oh, that's new.
08:33-!-ang [] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
08:33<bob2>today's debian kernel update covered like 20 cves
08:33<Peng>The kernel has a lot of CVEs, but people only freak out once or twice a year.
08:34-!-Akki is now known as Aka
08:34<straterra>The hot sauce/cold shower lady is going to court..what a load of crap
08:35<Peng>That sounds like a bad combination.
08:35<straterra>Child abuse charges? I'd much prefer hot sauce and a cold shower to a switch
08:36<straterra>Our society is too cuddly when it comes to discipline of children.
08:36<duckley_linode>Beginning the think fremont101 is an unhappy camper - somewhat slow...
08:37<Peng>duckley_linode: Nobody likes camping, least of all servers.
08:38<duckley_linode>I resemble that remark - camping *is* fun, but I could see why a server may not enjoy it...
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08:39<duckley_linode>I swear I'll be in my box before this node comes up...
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08:45<BBommarito_>Hot sauce cold showers. So wait, she forced her kid to take cold showers...and is abusing her kid? Ummmm...yea
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08:49<drupfly>any idea how to install ftp on linode ? Really need some guidanc eon this
08:50<JshWright>drupfly: dont' use FTP
08:50<drupfly>what else ... i am using one of my doman as a cdn
08:50<JshWright>your node already has OpenSSH's SSH server installed, which supports SFTP out of the box
08:50<linbot>Please use SSH/SCP/SFTP/rsync-over-ssh instead of FTP:
08:51<drupfly>i am using one of my doman as a cdn and need ftp access to upload files ... I am using wordpress total cache plugin
08:51<duckley_linode>Yeah dont use FTP, use SSH / SCP.
08:51<amitz>on that whole idea, what i don't like is the wording. "child abuse" instead of "inflicting unjustified physical punishment"
08:52<JshWright>drupfly: wordpress doesn't support SFTP?
08:52<drupfly>i dont think so ... it supports ssl and http mode
08:52<straterra>JshWright: I don't imagine it does
08:53<duckley_linode>Unless you need FTP for some reason, in which case install pure-ftp
08:53<straterra>or vsftp
08:54<drupfly>ok .. i will install pure-ftp ... i tried vsftpd but was having a lot of problem configuring it
08:54<drupfly>i was not able to upload files
08:54<drupfly>i could login though
08:54<JshWright>wh does Total Cache use FTP? The are a number of much better options out there for what it's trying to do...
08:55<drupfly>it uses ftp access to upload files to a cdn
08:55<JshWright>drupfly: yeah, but why use such an insecure, slow, naive method of moving files around?
08:56<linbot>New news from forums: My Mediawiki site is very slow in Performance and Tuning <>
08:56<JshWright>I'm not faulting you for using Total Cache, it seems like the best of the options out there... it's just a poor choice on their part to use FTP, IMO
08:56<@heckman>Is your CDN going to be on the same system as the WordPress site?
08:58<Peng>JshWright: Was "wh" a typo of "why" or "wth"? :D
08:58<@heckman>I would imagine 'Why'
08:59<JshWright>10 points for heckman
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09:04<duckley_linode>Support confirm fremont101 is somewhat buggered; you can stop DDoSing it now :)
09:05-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
09:12<duckley_linode>Sanity is restored.....
09:12-!-duckley_linode [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
09:13<Peng>Yes, leaving #linode does restore sanity, if done quickly enough.
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09:15<Steve^>If that's the only way, I don't want to be sane
09:16<qaliad>Steve^: how's your family of cms installations?
09:17<Steve^>Non-existent yet, I had a night out, so I'm just at the stage of processing the daily emails/tweets
09:17<Steve^>then lunch, THEN cmses :)
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09:18<qaliad>trying to prolong the excitement eh
09:20<Talman>The reason he shouldn't set up an SMTP server (say a Linode) is what, the server can't keep up with the amount of mails?
09:20<Talman>Or is that just a marketer selling?
09:21<qaliad>they're talking about serious volumes I think
09:22<Steve^>you'll just get yourself blacklisted
09:22<Kuboing>aka, spam
09:22<Kuboing>when a marketer talks about sending an massive amount of mails, it's always spam
09:23<Peng>Talman: Well, avoiding doing email yourself is always a good idea
09:23<Steve^>Kuboing, best we can hope for is targetted spam
09:23<Kuboing>Steve^: they buy lists
09:23<Steve^>who does?
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09:24<Steve^>I was referring to spam to your own customer base, but I guess 'cold-calling' style spam is spam too
09:24<Talman>Ah, I see.
09:24<Talman>cold-calling spam is illegal in the united states, yo.
09:24-!-Aka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:24<Talman>spamming your own customers is legal, and therefore not spam.
09:24<Kuboing>...and what is making them stop?
09:25<Peng>Kuboing: Airstrikes.
09:25<Talman>One will get your linode turned off. THe other, not so much.
09:25<Peng>The problem is so far there have been zero airstrikes.
09:25<Talman>There have been arrests, though.
09:25<Talman>Even convictions.
09:26<Talman>However, I would be pissed off about airstrikes. WHat if they bombed Fremont 2?
09:26<Talman>SPeaking of bombing. Linode's stuff is in Dallas, correct? Do they have backups at the others, or if Dallas got nuked for hosting spam, would our linodes continue on?
09:27<Peng>Talman: Our Linodes would be fine because of our offsite backups.
09:27<Peng>Except for our IPs being blown up. That'd be a problem.
09:28<linbot>New news from forums: Can't install awstats on Ubuntu 8.04 ... apt-get newb alert! in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
09:28<d-b>hi khyel__
09:28<Khyel_>Hey d-b :3
09:28<Kuboing>Talman: the amount of arrests/convictions is really small, though
09:28<Kuboing>compared to the spam going on
09:29<Kuboing>hmm.... mpm_prefork or fastcgi?
09:30<Peng>No, wait, mod_php!
09:30-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has quit [Quit: Client Quit]
09:30<Kuboing>or am I thinking of a completely different issue?
09:31<Peng>I run all my spam daemons with mod_python.
09:31<@heckman>I make sure to have mine send e-mail via telnet
09:31<@heckman>and ftp
09:32<Peng>Telnet's insecure, use SSH.
09:33<ahf>SSH into a mailserver! perfectly sane suggestion!
09:33<Peng>Exactly :D
09:33<Peng>My mail server only supports SSHv1 though :-\
09:34<@heckman>Mine supports SSHv9001
09:35<Peng>9001? Is that code for Tor?
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09:35<Khyel_>The levels are at or above the numeral of nine thousands
09:35<hawk>The first rule of tor is not to talk about tor
09:35<@heckman>My SSH has 51200 bit encryption son.
09:36<qaliad>Talman: do you already have mail accounts on your node?
09:36<@heckman>hawk: the first rule of urmom is not to talk about what one has done with urmom
09:36<Peng>heckman: Yeah, provide video.
09:36<Nivex>yo dawg, I heard you like urmom, so I ...
09:37<@heckman>Nivex: I'm not sure how to finish that. =/
09:37<d-b>heckman: that's a lot of crypto
09:37<d-b>heckman: what cflags did you use to get that?
09:37<Kuboing>why is there no fastcgi+apache article in the linode library? :<
09:38<@heckman>d-b: +troll
09:38<qaliad>apache is not cool, like linode is
09:38<d-b>heckman: :P
09:38<hawk>qaliad: Sure it is
09:38<@heckman>NginX >
09:38<hawk>Once the hype around nginx wears off apache will be cool again :P
09:39<d-b> >
09:39<Nivex>Kuboing: probably because it's so easy to get going they didn't feel like they needed to hold your hand ;)
09:39<d-b>apache is NOT cool
09:39<Nivex>right, apache is not "cool". It just fucking works.
09:39<Kuboing>Nivex: doubtful :P
09:39<@heckman>Holy crap...cherokee logo is scary
09:39<Kuboing>since I'm going with a multi-user setup
09:39<d-b>Nivex: the config is nice
09:39<@heckman>Khyel_: I can feel the memory of the internet leaking with you saying that.
09:40<qaliad>I hear Iroquois is coming along
09:40<d-b>heckman: cherokee is scary
09:40<Khyel_>heckman: Well, my iPhone runs one of my HTTP servers, and fuck running Apache off of that :P
09:40<@heckman>NginX is scary also, you ever see their website?
09:40<d-b>is it in russian
09:40<@heckman>In Soviet Russia, you serve NginX...
09:40<d-b>in mother russia,
09:40<Nivex>it's like the desktop wars. sure you could run fluxbox or enlightenment, but if you want something that's been proved you fire up GNOME or KDE
09:41<d-b>heckman: :P
09:41<@heckman>d-b: Has a big red
09:41<Kuboing>i am required to have suexec to have multiple users? :|
09:41<d-b>heckman: nice
09:41<d-b>heckman: you lied
09:41<d-b>there is no star
09:41<qaliad>Kuboing: no
09:41<Kuboing>with fastcgi
09:41<Kuboing>I can't find any articles *withouth* suexec
09:41-!-Steve^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:42<Nivex>yes you will need suexec
09:42<d-b>heckman: that's not the main site bro that's a wiki
09:42<hawk>d-b: But it's his wiki
09:42<Peng>d-b: Well of course you don't start the brainwashing on the homepage.
09:43-!-getsmart [~getsmart@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
09:43<@heckman>I dunno, I saw the giant red star and was like: "If he's ballsy enough to do this, I'm totally going to use it"
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09:47<HoopyCat>apache needs an emblem that symbolizes the unity of payload and worker
09:48<Peng>Something about the clone army of processes there to devour your RAM.
09:50<@heckman>Man, I keep seeing the cherokee logo in my mind and it just reminds me of some little brat who won't sit down and be quiet...
09:51<Peng>Haha. Looks sort of like some sort of birthday party place.
09:54*linbot eyes Andycow
09:54<Talman>>.> What are you people maligning now.
09:55-!-lll [] has joined #linode
09:55<Peng>If there isn't a C function named malign, there should be.
09:55<Talman>Yeah, I'm not clicking shit with a partner ID anda username of lll
09:55-!-lll [] has quit []
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09:57<mwalling>i'm not going to bother klining that, he's morphing. someone hilight me when he comes back
09:58<Talman>Sometimes I'm happy I have joins and parts turned off.
09:58<HoopyCat>my font is missing some unicode, so i end up with "Online Fu?ball Manager" in the title preview
09:58<HoopyCat>i'm just going to go ahead and assume the missing character is an "r"
09:58<Talman>I wonder if its the SEGA version.
09:59<Talman>.za is south africa, right?
09:59<Talman>ZOUTH AFRICA.
09:59<HoopyCat>Talman: yup
09:59<mwalling>is *THAT* what it stands for?
09:59*mwalling feels dumb
10:00<Kuboing>zuid afrika
10:00*Kuboing tries to figure out why apache is so unresponsive...
10:00-!-jonsowman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:01<Kuboing>especially when trying to contact it after a while again, it will just sit there doing nothing for 30 seconds before responding
10:01<mwalling>Kuboing: needs tuning
10:01<Kuboing>I'm using mpm-itk, which is slow by itself ;>_>
10:01<Talman>mwalling: I'm guessing, but I've lived with some SA guys for 6 months on ship.
10:01<Talman>THeir language sounds dutch.
10:02<Kuboing>sounds, but it isn't
10:02<mwalling>Talman: i know its dutchish, i figured ZA was an affrican word
10:03<Talman>It took me a minute to realize the guy was speaking Affrikans.
10:03<Talman>He was like, "Do you understand it?" I'm like, "It sounds like German and Dutch had kids, yo. Not a word."
10:03-!-takamichi [~pri@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:03<HoopyCat>double the a, not the f :-)
10:03<Talman>ah. :)
10:04<HoopyCat>as african languages go, that one's not too bad
10:04<Talman>I have not heard other indigenious langauges.
10:04<HoopyCat>recordings of the !kung language make me twitch because i'm like "wtf, why is that clipping"
10:04<Talman>However, the dutch langauge is wtf.
10:04<Talman>lol clipping
10:06-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #linode
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10:07<Talman>Burr, people, burr.
10:10-!-Steve^ [] has joined #linode
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10:31<asdfqwer>how can i setup my slice to accept incoming mysql connections?
10:32<asdfqwer>would i need to make a new A record in my dns?
10:34<@heckman>asdfqwer: You'd want to modify the MySQL server to listen on an external interface for connections.
10:35<@heckman>You'd also want to make sure you change the MySQL root password to ensure proper security. You could set up an additional A record, but it's not needed.
10:35<@heckman>Sorry I cannot be of more assistance, on my way to bed. Lol. Have a great day everyone.
10:35<asdfqwer>i think i get it
10:35-!-dmadole [] has joined #linode
10:36<asdfqwer>basically, bind to my slice ip in my.cnf and add remote ip for user connecting to db
10:37<@heckman>Roughly, yes. Modify the mysql config file to bind to your external IP. Normally it only binds to localhost.
10:37<@heckman>But changing your mysql root password is definitely
10:37<amitz>I met someone from somewhere in Africa, "hi, my name is <insertdifficultopronouncename> but you can call me <simplename>"
10:37<asdfqwer>i don't wanna bind my server to external ip
10:37<asdfqwer>mysql server*
10:38<@heckman>What do you want to bind it to then?
10:38<asdfqwer>i just want another machine to be able to connect and use a db on mysql-server
10:38<@heckman>Are both machines Linodes?
10:39<@heckman> need to have it bind to your external IP address.
10:39<asdfqwer>i'm gonna test something
10:39<@heckman>How else do you expect it to communicate?
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10:46-!-dmadole [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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10:47<rascal999> uses an invalid security certificate.
10:47<rascal999>The certificate will not be valid until 03/05/10 20:39.
10:47<rascal999>can someone confirm?
10:47-!-RiverRat [] has joined #linode
10:48<qaliad>rascal999: nope. Valid to Friday, 5 July 2013 09:58:12
10:48<rascal999>qaliad: MITM?
10:48<mwalling>rascal999: yes, i confirm that the certificate's not valid before date is may 3, 2010
10:48<Peng>rascal999: Wait, 2010? Why does your comptuer think it's earlier than 2010-03-05?
10:48<Peng>Oh, 2010-05-03. Screw you, ambiguous date formats.
10:48<rascal999>CMOS battery is screwed on this computer
10:48<mwalling>rascal999: hi, welcome to 2011 with the rest of us
10:48<rascal999>it thinks it's 2002
10:49<Peng>That's awesome.
10:49<rascal999>Tuesday, 01 January 2002
10:49<Peng>I wonder if it really was a Tuesday?
10:49<qaliad>you need to hook up with a sexy time server
10:49<mwalling>Peng: big hint: he's coming from the date is probably backwards
10:49<mwalling>rascal999: better question, what OS are you using that isnt magicly connecting to a time server?
10:51-!-Bass10 [] has joined #linode
10:53<Peng>mwalling: Ah, screw that. I'm not learning anyone's crazy date formats.
10:53<Peng>rascal999: What version of Ubuntu? Is this Ubuntu from 2002?
10:54<HoopyCat>ntpd will take awhile to move 9 years
10:54<DephNet[Paul]>mwalling, I thought that if the date was too far out, the time doesn't update
10:54<rascal999>Peng: 10.04
10:55<DephNet[Paul]>Peng, if the CMOS thinks it is 2002, then this will be reported as such in the OS, or that is what I thought happened
10:56<Peng>HoopyCat: Ubuntu likes to ntpdate on boot.
10:56<Peng>I mean, I turned that off, but...
10:56<Peng>rascal999: Why didn't Ubuntu fix your clock on boot?
10:56<HoopyCat>my CMOS battery is also due for replacement, BUT if it loses its shit like that, it halts
10:56<Peng>(Actually, Ubuntu likes to ntpdate on ifup.)
10:56<rascal999>Peng: no idea
10:56<DephNet[Paul]>Peng, too far out?
10:57<HoopyCat>Peng: if there's no network connectivity at boot (e.g. dialup, pppoe, wireless, etc), it may not be able to
10:57<Steve^>Ubuntu has awful NTP, at least in the desktop anyway - it doesn't work at all
10:58<Steve^>I can walk down a line of Ubuntu PCs at work and they all have slightly different times
10:58<Nivex>my Ubuntu machines are all within 2ms, but I also have a stratum 1 in my apartment, so I may have altered the stock configs somewhat ;)
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10:59<Peng>It's NTP. Sure Ubuntu's package is old, but it's not awful. :-\
10:59<Peng>Nivex: Omg stratum 1 can I move in with will you marry me
11:00*Nivex backs away from Peng slowly
11:00<Peng>Nivex: Wait, is it GPS? I'm so tired of GPS. Everybody's doing that these days. It's not a Garmin, is it?
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11:01<Nivex>Peng: yeah, the 18LVC. I was running a CHU receiver for awhile.
11:01<Peng>Ah, I see.
11:01<@heckman>Nivex: I would imagine you have a stratum-0 as well?
11:01<Nivex>canadian equiv of WWV
11:01<Peng>Steve^: Seriously, what's wrong with Ubuntu's NTP package? :-\
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11:02<HoopyCat>for one, it only sets one time server
11:02<Steve^>Peng, it doesn't set the correct time - maybe all my NTP servers are wrong, I don't know
11:03<Peng>I doubt Ubuntu patches suck in. I use it with no issues.
11:03<Peng>HoopyCat: Yeah, that's an issue.
11:03<BarkerJr>ëheck ntpq -p
11:03<Peng>I've been meaning to bug the Canonical people to tell me how much traffic it gets. :P
11:04<Steve^>Peng, does your time match ?
11:04<Steve^>To be fair, my Linode is bang on
11:04<HoopyCat>it works, and is close enough for my reasonable purposes
11:04<Peng>Steve^: Well, I'm IRCing from a stratum 2 time server, so...
11:05<Steve^>But I've had horrible experiences with the Ubuntu desktop stuff.
11:05<HoopyCat>but still :-)
11:05<Peng>Steve^: By about half a ms, yes.
11:05<HoopyCat>Steve^: start "ntpq" and pastebin the output of "rl" and "peers"
11:05<HoopyCat>Steve^: (on an afflicted machine)
11:05<Steve^>The other thing is how it downloads the timezone packages automatically then doesn't bother to apply the timezone changes
11:06<Steve^>HoopyCat, sorry, my current machine isn't running NTP
11:06<HoopyCat>Steve^: when you find one that does :-)
11:07<Peng>OK, back.
11:07<HoopyCat>i usually add three pool round robins to ntpd.conf to be happy (server (0,1,2)
11:08<Peng>Steve^: In all serious, I've had no problems with Ubuntu's NTP package. I mean, it's old and way less awesome than something remotely current, but it works.
11:08<Peng>I run a basically stock ntp.conf, with 4 total servers.
11:09<Peng> actually
11:10<BarkerJr>you're supposed to use 3-5 sources
11:11<Peng>4, 5 or 7.
11:11<Peng>Not 3.
11:11<BarkerJr>server (0,1,2,3)
11:11<BarkerJr>they added a 3 recently so you can have 4 pool servers
11:12<Peng>Ideally I'd run 4 servers and wouldn't need the pool (or
11:12<asdfqwer>heckman, yeah bind-address is only supposed to point to my machine's ip
11:13<BarkerJr>the pool is more scalable, cause there are hundreds of ntp servers in it in the usa alone
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11:13<asdfqwer>heckman, all i needed was an extra entry in my user table of the host i was connecting from
11:14<Peng>BarkerJr: Sure, but it's more fun to not put any extra load on the pool.
11:14<gbit>how long does it take to snapshot a 768 linode?
11:15<@caker>between minutes and hours
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11:15<BarkerJr>ntp is a very lightweight protocol with just a single UDP packet... the pool servers are fine with the load :)
11:15<HoopyCat>gbit: snapshot (as in what the backup system does) or clone (bit-for-bit copy of an image)?
11:16<gbit>HoopyCat, as the backup system..
11:16<Peng>BarkerJr: Sure, but what's the fun of that?
11:16<Peng>BarkerJr: And it still makes me think about the load every device I run it on causes.
11:17<gbit>HoopyCat, it seems to work now... tks
11:17<HoopyCat>gbit: the snapshot itself is instantaneous, but once that is done, the copy will take some time
11:18<HoopyCat>ah, i forget there's a snapshot button there
11:18<BarkerJr>well, make sure you add all your servers to the pool so others can use them :)
11:19<Peng>BarkerJr: I do, if I think it's a good idea.
11:22<BarkerJr>my ntp has been in the pool for years and uses about 2.5gb/mo transfer
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11:25<Peng>BarkerJr: Ah. You need to bump up the netspeed. :D
11:25<Peng>BarkerJr: A US Gbps server should get about 100-150 GB of traffic a month.
11:26<@ericoc>Peng: i think i use an ntp server of yours..
11:26<@ericoc>and have for like awhile, before i ever started working for linode
11:26<Peng>ericoc: You may! :D
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11:27<Peng>I only have 2, and only one's on the pool.
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11:27<@ericoc>was listed on the wiki iirc
11:27<@ericoc>internal services
11:27<Peng>ericoc: Yeah.
11:27<Peng>ericoc: IPv4, IPv6 or private network? :D
11:28<@ericoc>i think ntp does some weird stuff that *won't* let me turn ipv6 off
11:28<@ericoc>pretty sure it's ipv4, or should be, but it might be getting pushed through my v6 tunnel
11:29<Peng>ericoc: NTP does do some strange things, but it should let you turn IPv6 off.
11:29<Peng>FWIW, I changed the hostname, and the new one leaves the IPv6 tunnel out. (As soon as we get native I'll add that in, though!)
11:29<@ericoc>eh, i'm using ipv4.tick.etc..
11:29<Peng>I sure love periods... :D
11:29<@ericoc>but im in NAC
11:30<Peng>Not such a big deal then!
11:30<Peng>I also have ntp2 now, which is also in Dallas and not on a Linode. D: (And also on the same v6 tunnel.)
11:31<Peng>And that points to whatever I think is a good idea. (Remember when I said I had a lot of DNS records? This is why...)
11:32-!-Guest2138 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:32<Peng>$ ack-grep ntp /etc/nsd3/ | wc -l
11:35<Peng>Sudden silence :X
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11:38<Peng>Thank you.
11:40<Peng>Honestly, whenever I'm bored, I create more NTP DNS records.
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11:42<Yaakov>Peng: grep -c
11:42<Peng>Yaakov: I know
11:43<Peng>Actually, now my Ubuntu desktop (laptop) click is 5-6 ms off. but that's still reasonably close.
11:44<Yaakov>Peng: Oh... then cat /etc/nsd3/ | grep ntp | wc -1
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11:45<Peng>Yaakov: Wait, -1? My man page doesn't list that.
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11:49<BarkerJr>how could you mislead us like that?
11:49<Peng>It's a cruel world.
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11:51<marcopolous>Once i'm in finnix, is there anyway to check the size of the image that i'm trasnferring over dd?
11:52<Peng>Well, you could look it up in the manager.
11:52<Peng>Aside from that, probably?
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11:53<marcopolous>ok. because last time i was logged in, i swear i remember "/" was just under 4 gb, but the image i'm downloading is still going from last night. past 5 gb's now
11:54<Peng>marcopolous: The image is the entire size of the image, not however much you've used.
11:54<Peng>marcopolous: It's like if you had a 16 GB hard drive. Sure your porn is only 2 GB, but if you dd the entire drive, you get the entire drive.
11:55<marcopolous>oh man...
11:55<marcopolous>so if i have the 1gb linode, i'm getting all 32gb!?
11:55<Peng>marcopolous: If you don't want to copy the entire image, you'll have to mount it and rsync the files or somesuch.
11:56<Peng>marcopolous: If your disk image is 32 GB, yes.
11:56<marcopolous>oh crap...
11:56<marcopolous>well first of all, i see why it's a better idea to start up a new linode and restore to that, to download it
11:58<marcopolous>would gzip'ing it while transferring it shrink it down to a decent level, or would it still be something like 20gb?
11:59<Peng>Define "Decent level".
11:59<Peng>You said you have 4 GB of data on it. Unless you have tons of old deleted files, yeah, you could probably compress it down a lot.
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12:01<marcopolous>i'm guessing there's no way to check before initiating the transfer. something closer to 4gb would be "decent" for me
12:01<marcopolous>as i've already blown a lot of bandwidth on trying to get a local backup
12:02<Peng>marcopolous: Like I said, mount+rsync would work, if you have a nice file system sitting there that is dreaming to have a bunch of files dumped in it.
12:03<@caker>Peng: I'm liking your new boldness!
12:03<marcopolous>yeah, i guess i should give that another shot. exclude dev, mnt, proc, sys... and what else?
12:04*marcopolous searching his irc transcripts...
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12:07<Peng>caker: I was reading Chobits a couple days ago. It's taking longer to wear off than usual.
12:10<mwalling>stupid mac question: can i just throw a hard drive onto an airport and it will be available as a time machine drive?
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12:15<Peng>Usually it goes away in a few hours. Now it's gotten out of control and I might do it forever.
12:15<Peng>But then I alt-tab to nano or Twitter or something and it sucks that I can't make things bold. :(
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12:21<marcopolous>fortunately for you guys i've ubuntu, parallels, and an ubuntu server book... retahded questions should become less and less frequent
12:22*Peng feels replaced :(
12:24<marcopolous>wait, what the fuck's an apt?
12:26<marcopolous>awesome! haven't gotten one error on rsync yet
12:26<bung>"# rm -rf /" doesn't work!
12:26<Peng>marcopolous: But that doesn't mean it did what you want!
12:27<marcopolous>whatchu talkin bout?
12:28<Peng>marcopolous: It's easy to mess up an rsync and have it do something unexpected in a perfectly successful way.
12:29<marcopolous>argh. that's what i liked about finnix + dd, until i realized the file size. you don't think rsync is a good plan for an offsite backup?
12:33*Peng shrugs
12:33<Steve^>Does anyone know how phpmyadmin links itself to apache on Ubuntu?
12:33<Steve^>I've found the config file for the site, but no link in /etc/apache2
12:34<marcopolous>peng: what do you use?
12:34-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
12:35<Peng>marcopolous: Backups...ehheh...
12:36-!-Anson [] has joined #linode
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12:36<marcopolous>so if you're good with servers you don't need to fuck with full backups? or what?
12:36<Anson>Hi, What can I do if I find that the bandwidth is already exceed for 2TB right now?
12:37<marcopolous>you send me some traffic
12:37<Anson>Is it still possible to buy the bandwidth right now?
12:38<Peng>Anson: Yes. Extras age.
12:38<Peng>marcopolous: No, I'm just a moron.
12:39<Anson>But now is already near the end of the month, how wil they count?
12:39<mwalling>it will count now
12:39<Peng>Oh, yeah, that could be a problem.
12:39<Peng>Could it?
12:40<Anson>Additional 2000GB/month Transfer 01/30/2011 02/28/2011 $197.27
12:41<Anson>As the 2000GB/month will also be count in ratio, isn't it?
12:41<Anson>That means I can only get 60GB for this month, right?
12:41<Peng>Noo idea
12:42<Anson>How will they charge if there is exceed BW?
12:42<Peng>Anson: Excess bandwidth is $0.15/GB, but they'll discuss it with you first.
12:42<Peng>Anson: You know, like, demand the money, and then break your kneecaps.
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12:43<marcopolous>i know i said less retahded, but how can you scroll up in the linux command line, if the mouse doesn't do it?
12:43<Anson>Oops, that means it is cheaper if i buy that first..
12:44<jake>Is there anyway to find out what card was used to make a payment, I have a payment in May 2009 which I am trying to match up to a account so I can find out what bank charged in commission + exchange rate yet can't find the payment anywhere :/
12:45<jake>ah found it!
12:45<jake>two different linode payments, missed first one :)
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12:48<jeremyb>jake: doesn't linode pay the commission?
12:49<jake>jeremyb: this is for currency conversion I am in the UK so I pay commission on the currency conversion.
12:49<jake>Which means when I put into accounts I need to check what I actually paid.
12:50<bung>pparadis: did you set cgi.fix_pathinfo=0 in your php.ini regarding the nginx ~* \.php$ pitfall ?
12:50<jake>I switched banks at that time so had to check two sets of accounts.
12:50<hobot>man I hate people sometimes, I am getting an odd error setting up synergy and the only place I find on the internet fixes it like
12:50<jeremyb>can you get a USD acct at a UK bank?
12:50-!-niemeyer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:50<hobot>"oh I fixed it lol and I didnt post the solution"
12:51<jake>jeremyb: yeah, would need to find out if worth it.
12:51<jake>Might be worth it for when I go to Google I/O + holiday but other than that can't see it being worth it.
12:51<jeremyb>if you have frequent small payments...
12:52<jake>Only non uk payment I do is Linode and that is not much.
12:52<jeremyb>because linode charges immediately when you change something. don't wait till end of the month
12:52<jake>I don't change stuff often :)
12:55<marcopolous>shift + fn + up/down!
12:55<Steve^>Hey qaliad, you around?
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13:14<snohaus>having a few issues using navicat to connect using SSH to my mysql. I think i have to turn on external access to it somewhere but im not 100% sure where to do it. is anyone able to give me a quick hand
13:15<snohaus>at the moment i get connection failed " lost connection to the MySQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 0"
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13:26<hobot>well are you sshing in and then trying to use mysql
13:28<pharaun>ipv6 status of fucked? is it just "we are fucked" or "oh god the end of the world" :-p
13:29<Peng>pharaun: What, IPv4 exhaustion?
13:30<pharaun>Peng: something like that, i was just wondering :)
13:31<Peng>pharaun: Well, first of all, the current countdown is to IANA running out of /8s to allocate. The RIRs will still have IPs for a while. And then most people with allocations won't run out immediately. And then we're fucked.
13:32<pharaun>ah, that's what i was wondering, i was trying to get some people to start looking into ipv6 and they were like meh, it'll all be fine
13:32<pharaun>and pfft there's nothing on ipv6 net so why should i bother kind of thinking
13:35<Peng>pharaun: It really won't be fine. It just won't be the end of the world tomorrow.
13:35<Peng>pharaun: I mean, it will be fine in the end, eventually, once those jerks are on IPv6.
13:35<Steve^>Looks like Joomla is very, very commercial - you can't even blog without buying a plugin
13:36<bung>anyone here with a sourceforge account able to ssh into I dont know if im doing it wrong or if they've still got down services
13:36<pharaun>Peng: indeed, but i was just wondeirng how rough the translation will be, i don't want CGN ;_;
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13:38<dominikh>bung: all I know is that SF resetted user passwords
13:38<snohaus>hobot no. with navicat you connect using a SSH tunnel. if i change the pass it is saying wrong pass. so the connection is being made but i think mysql is rejecting it.
13:40<hobot>oh I see
13:40<hobot>can you ssh into the server and run mysql from the term
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13:40<snohaus>yes. when im in the terminal i can do anything i need to.
13:41<hobot>interesting, well id say the problem is with your "navicat" configuration if you can ssh in but it returns some mysql error
13:41<hobot>if you can mysql from the term
13:42<snohaus>hmm. what is the port used for ssh? the default is 22 so i presumed that would be ok. dont think thats the problem but its worth checking.
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13:46<Steve^>Can anyone recommend a CMS with blogging built in? PHP or Python is fine
13:47<Steve^>(To clarify, I don't want to spend money to install a blog plugin and I'd prefer if it wasn't even a plugin for the blog part)
13:47<snohaus>i used Drupal alot.
13:47<linbot> |
13:49<Steve^>I'll check it out
13:49<qaliad>ditto is a core plugin
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13:49<qaliad>as in, you could swap it out but you wouldn't want to
13:49<Steve^>qaliad, of what?
13:49-!-Perihelion [] has quit [Quit: Well, that's enough of that.]
13:49<qaliad>you know :P
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13:50<Steve^>qaliad, it's not too bad you know, my current worry is how all the templates are stored in the DB and how I'm going to deploy between dev and prod
13:50<Steve^>qaliad, I'm happy to see they have a tutorial for blogging, but it does involve installing 5 plugins before you start
13:51<qaliad>hm. you could use static (filesystem) resources.. but anyway, look around :)
13:52<qaliad>ah, I see
13:52<Steve^>qaliad, getResources is the new ditto :)
13:52<qaliad>I guess I see all that as part of the same project
13:52<Steve^>that's fine in itself, it's the top of my list
13:52<Steve^>Joomla wants all my money
13:53<Steve^>qaliad, you mentioned Silverstripe too?
13:54-!-flowbee [] has joined #linode
13:55<qaliad>why oh why are they parsing the whole xml tree into an array..christ
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13:57<Steve^>qaliad, who
13:57-!-Rob [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:58<qaliad>a dns api lib
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14:01<jimmybaker>I've got a process that I can't kill with sudo kill.. any other ideas on how to stop it without rebooting?
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14:02<jimmybaker>kill -9 got it
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14:15<mwalling>hi, again.
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14:15<Flappi282>How can I report a server using copyright stuff?
14:15<Flappi282>CGI version of this kept crashing as well
14:15<Steve^>hire a lawyer
14:15<mwalling>the same way as always, using the abuse contact listed in whois
14:15<Flappi282>Okay thanks
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14:16<Steve^>no need to idlre
14:16<Peng>, you bastard!
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14:21<qaliad>take it easy, chicken
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14:21<bung>is it wise to disable the root account after i put my main user into the sudo group
14:22<bung>if my main user is my only user and i lose access, im boned right?
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14:23<mwalling>not always
14:23<mwalling>you can use lish and some magic to get in if you need to
14:24<bung>doesnt lish use root?
14:24<mwalling>theres an sshd_config(5) directive to keep root from logging in with ssh, as long as you have a strong password, you should be golden with that
14:25<mwalling>lish is like the keyboard and mouse connected to the physical box
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14:31<hobot>its like awesome
14:32<bung>maybe the send-only exim guide should mention something about the iptables rule needed
14:33<mwalling>the what?
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14:34<mwalling>what firewall rule?
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14:36<bung>if i do something like this:
14:36<bung>that includes 25 tcp traffic right
14:37<bung>for outgoing mail
14:37<bung>i didnt use all those ports when i did it, i only used 22 and 80
14:37<bung>so i need to add one for 25?
14:37<HoopyCat>are you just sending mail out, or are you also accepting mail?
14:38<bung>im using google apps for accepting
14:39<HoopyCat>unless you're blocking the OUTPUT chain by default, you shouldn't need to add anything
14:39<bung>ok cool
14:39<bung>im only blocking input and forward
14:40<HoopyCat>if you are blocking the OUTPUT chain by default, something like iptables -A OUTPUT -j ACCEPT -p tcp --destination-port 25 -i eth0 or something should do it i think
14:40<bung>would there be a reason to block output?
14:41<bung>i guess i can google that
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14:45<HoopyCat>if you aren't expecting to open arbitrary outbound connections, it can help avoid that
14:45<HoopyCat>it is a bit of a PITA, of course, because there's a lot of outbound connections that do happen (DNS queries, time synchronization, apt-get, etc)
14:46<bung>i see
14:46<bung>id have to go find that list
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14:46<bung>i dont think i can forsee something bad going out without having had something worse already happen
14:47<bung>any of you use something like this?
14:51<AviMarcus>I'll keep it in mind
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14:52<tharkun>Gentlemen i need a service to be running on my linode. How do i make that same service only available to the datacenter i am in? In case someone also needs it?
14:52<AviMarcus>make it available to the whole datacenter?
14:53<mwalling>tharkun: then turn on the private ip
14:53<jeremyb>i guess you mean only make it available to IPs you can transit to without touching your quota?
14:53<tharkun>mwalling: how do i turn it on?
14:53<jeremyb>in the manager
14:54<AviMarcus>what service, tharkun ?
14:54*tharkun feels a little iditotic
14:54<AviMarcus>you'll have to bind it to that IP, btw
14:54<AviMarcus>e.g. apt-cacher-ng by default is accessible via any IP on the machine
14:54<hawk>yeah, make the service only bind to your IP on the private network
14:55<mwalling>or firewall it out from the public ip
14:55<AviMarcus>I had to edit the config to bind only on the private IP
14:55<AviMarcus>that too
14:58<marcopolous>where is the linode extras page?
14:58-!-Anson [] has joined #linode
14:59<linbot>Available extras: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP addresses: $ 1 per address/month. To add extras, visit the Extras tab on a Linode.
15:00<Anson>Hi, I have about 2G data in a server but the harddisk size is 20G. Now if I use resize to resize it to 5G, will there a possibility that I will corrupt the data?
15:01-!-micleavor [] has joined #linode
15:01<tharkun>Anson: playing with size allocation has that risk allways. Better have a backup
15:01<hawk>Anson: If it's a filesystem where the operation is supported it _shouldn't_ corrupt data, but do take a backup
15:01<HoopyCat>Anson: there's always a possibility, but it is very rare (especially rare for growing images)
15:01<Anson>I use Ubuntu 10.04.
15:02<Anson>Sorry, I am shrinking the images.
15:02<tharkun>Same case
15:02<Anson>Ok, Thanks.
15:04<marcopolous>hoopycat: if I don't have binlogging enabled, would that compromise a mysqldump from a production environment? is --single-transaction enough?
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15:08<bung>in my linode manager i setup reverse dns yesterday .. does it usually take a while to take effect?
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15:10<jeremyb>i think it took less than an hour for me? it's a cron job i think so it can vary depending on when you hit it
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15:14<mwalling>bung: 24 to 48 hours
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15:15<bung>Roger that.
15:15<bung>ill give it another day
15:17<HoopyCat>marcopolous: with myisam (historically the default), --single-transaction won't have an effect because that engine doesn't support transactions... with innodb, --single-transaction should give you a consistent snapshot tho
15:18<marcopolous>cool, i'm using innodb for most of my tables (if not all). so binlogging is more of an extra measure?
15:18<dominikh>that reminds me, I still have to set up a cron for mongodb dumps...
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15:20<HoopyCat>marcopolous: the dump gives you the database at t=0; the binlog gives you the database at t>0. so, if you're ok with potentially losing stuff beyond the dump time, sure
15:21<marcopolous>i see. so with binlogging enabled, it takes into account any inserts that are happening during the dump?
15:22<marcopolous>i read that binlogging slightly decreases performance
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15:25<HoopyCat>marcopolous: it is a serial log of every query that modifies data, so with that, plus a check of the position in the binlog at the time of the dump (mysqldump can do this if you ask), you can recreate the data up to any particular point (after t=0) with that dump and the binlog(s)
15:26<xentek>Following this Guide:
15:26<HoopyCat>marcopolous: yes it slightly decreases write performance. may or may not be worth it :-)
15:26<xentek>the primary node is not picking up the other one, when running crm configure edit ... the 2nd node picked up both just fine
15:27<xentek>not sure how to fix this
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15:31<marcopolous>hoopycat: thanks!
15:33<xentek>anybody with heartbeat experience? having a little trouble with this guide:
15:35-!-ventsislav [~ventsisla@] has joined #linode
15:40<HoopyCat>xentek: i've used heartbeat, but not with CRM
15:40-!-storrgie [] has joined #linode
15:42<HoopyCat>augh i gotta quit bikeshedding this mux
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15:49<johnp>hello...trying to get some help optimizing my linode is constantly using 300% cpu and 3000 disk io...
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15:51<linbot>New news from forums: Help with VirtualHost file in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
15:51<xentek>johnp first thing I'd do is make sure your swap disk is 1024MB, which will give you a little more breathing room while trying to figure out what's pegging the other resources
15:52<johnp>my swap image is 256mb
15:52<HoopyCat>johnp: what sort of stuff are you running?
15:53<johnp>ruby, rails, nginx, is a FB application...
15:53<HoopyCat>johnp: pastebin the output of: free -m; ps auxwww; vmstat 1 30 (the vmstat will run for ~30 seconds)
15:56<xentek>good rule of thumb for swap: swap should be 1/2 of your avail RAM, until you hit 4GB, and then stay at 2GB until you hit 8GB
15:56<linbot>New news from forums: Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS - change root password in General Discussion <>
16:00<johnp>xentek when I run free -m , my Free is 1922
16:01<warren_>xentek, I'm not sure that swap guidance is good anymore
16:02<xentek>its held for me in extremely high volume environments (~1M pageviews)
16:02<xentek>and the default 256MB is quite small
16:02<johnp>so, you think I should try 1024?
16:03<xentek>especially if you've got an underpowered app that's constantly swaping under load
16:03<xentek>johnp - it will at least give you a bit of room
16:03<xentek>if you're 300% over capcity, then you blew through swap a long time ago
16:03<johnp>I think part of the problem is that we have too many peopl playing at one time...some of these people stay on 8 hours or more a day...
16:03<xentek>that's indeed the truth
16:04<xentek>you'll need to scale up/out to keep with demand
16:04-!-Keyz [] has joined #linode
16:04<xentek>but I had a linode recently that was running 4GB and still falling over under moderate traffic... increased swap and it hasn't gone down since
16:04<warren_>johnp, you may need to upgrade to a larger linode or write your app to be capable of distributing over several
16:05<xentek>also, use htop to figure out the average size of your Apache/Passenger threads
16:05<johnp>i use nginx
16:06<xentek>what's serving your ruby?
16:06-!-jimmybaker [] has quit [Quit: jimmybaker]
16:06<xentek>mod_passenger or some fastcgi?
16:07<xentek>yeah, there will still be memory threads for that
16:07<xentek>in fact, that's what's going to be using it all up in the first place (nginx footprint stays small)
16:07<xentek>so figure out the average, and limit the number of works to stay below
16:08<johnp>I think I have it set to 4 right now...
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16:10<xentek>yeah, just figure out the average memory needs of your threads, and configure the web server so that the number threads it allows (multiplied by the avg memory usage) is below 2GB
16:11<HoopyCat>johnp: is a good spot to paste (sorry, working in another window)
16:11<HoopyCat>xentek: for a VPS (or a server in general), you're probably going to not want to go above 256 MB of swap... once you get that far into swap, you're probably boned
16:11<xentek>well, you never want to swap at all
16:12<xentek>256MB in my opinion is way too small.
16:13<@jed>the only reason 256 is the default is because not having swap at all angers linux
16:13<@jed>you really don't want to swap in a server environment at all
16:14<tharkun>jed: you can have no swap at all. But if you ever need it you get a kernel panic and a frozen server. Which is not a good thing
16:14<johnp>ok, I pasted everything up there...
16:14<@jed>tharkun: exactly
16:14<johnp>HoopyCar...I pasted the info...
16:15<tharkun>swap on a server is like parachute You will never want to use it but when you do need it. It will certainly save your butt
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16:15<@jed>it'll make your app unusable, most likely, a tradeoff of the desktop when it comes to responsiveness
16:18<linbot>New news from forums: Perl bytecode in General Discussion <>
16:18<mwalling>i disagree
16:18<mwalling>swap, when used it moderation, can be good in an io constrained enviroment like linodes
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16:19<HoopyCat>johnp: what's the URL?
16:19<mwalling>(because the kernel can push stale pages out to make room for caching)
16:19<HoopyCat>mwalling: the key is *moderation* :-)
16:21<HoopyCat>johnp: ok, plenty of free memory. hmm. looks like the vmstat got chopped off
16:21<mwalling>HoopyCat: moderation > none.
16:21<HoopyCat>mwalling: nod
16:21<johnp>ok, will run it again...
16:23<HoopyCat>johnp: your mysql looks like it has been (and is) using a fair amount of CPU... might be an indication to increase memcached's size from 64 MB and/or try some mysql tuning ( has a nifty script that'll do that)
16:24<HoopyCat>johnp: aside from that, most of your IO is writing... do you have something set to log a lot?
16:24-!-blaines [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
16:24<johnp>no logs...probably saving to the dbase...
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16:25<HoopyCat>johnp: that'd do it. you can try "iotop" to verify that, but mysql looks like it is smokin
16:28<johnp>, that script will tune the mysql for me?
16:28<AviMarcus>no, just tell you want to tune
16:28<AviMarcus>it checks the running stats
16:28<AviMarcus>and gives you suggestions for increasing specific caches, etc
16:28<johnp>oh, ok
16:30<johnp>it saves the tuner s index.html
16:30<HoopyCat>run, tweak one or two things as recommended, restart mysqld, let it sit for a few days
16:30<johnp>as index.html
16:30-!-blaines [] has joined #linode
16:30<HoopyCat>johnp: mv index.html, or wget -O
16:32<hawk>I suppose you wouldn't really have to rename it even...
16:33<HoopyCat>perl index.html just feels weird
16:33<johnp>damn.... can't remember my user name and pw for mysql...
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16:41*Kuboing prods at apache with a stick
16:43<snohaus>when creating a subdomain. do you use the servername of the main domain or do you use the subdomain when creating the virtualhost in apache?
16:46<encode>use as the servername in the virtualhost section
16:46<maushu>Kuboing, try nginx.
16:46<snohaus>k perfect thanks.
16:46<Kuboing>how would nginx make it any faster?
16:46<maushu>It's not as crazy with processes as apache is.
16:46-!-customer [] has joined #linode
16:46<encode>less overhead
16:47<maushu>The main difference is asynchronous handling of requests instead of using threads as Apache does.
16:47<maushu>(stolen from serverfault)
16:47<customer>The image quality on my website got worse without reason. Does someone know what could cause this? Havent updated the code or anything.
16:47<AviMarcus>and also if you're using php, you can use a nice asynchronous php5-fpm processor also
16:48<encode>customer: has anything been updated on your webserver?
16:48<encode>maybe a newer version of gd or something?
16:49<customer>encode, not since yesterday. the strange behavior exists apparently since yesterday. have to check the exact time
16:49<customer>What is a good method to list occupied space. 18 GB are occupied, my website only accounts for about 3 GB. Where does the rest hide?
16:50-!-blaines [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51<AviMarcus>use du iirc
16:51<AviMarcus>du -hs /directory/of/files
16:51<HoopyCat>customer: du -sh / will show you where stuff is; you can then drill down, e.g. du -sh / then du -sh /var then du -sh /var/log, etc
16:51<HoopyCat>customer: but look in /var/log. that's usually the most likely place, esp. if logrotate isn't installed
16:52<customer>/var/log is only 148 MB
16:53-!-dmadole [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:53<AviMarcus>try /var and /usr I gues
16:55<AviMarcus>"du -h --max-depth=1 /var" shows the sum of each folder (1 level deep) within the searched folder
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16:56<customer>Thanks AviMarcus
16:56<AviMarcus>please let us know where it is.
16:56*AviMarcus is curious
16:56<AviMarcus>I had twice..
16:56<AviMarcus>a misbehaving wordpress backup plugin
16:57<AviMarcus>and another time a flooded default mailbox
17:03<customer>The occupied space seems to be legit. Database takes up 8.8 GB and website including logs another 8.1 GB.
17:04<customer>Checked source file, quality setting is still the same as before, no reason for it to be broken. PNGs are not affected, only JPEGs. Must be the library or something.
17:05<customer>but i dont understand why it happens out of the blue
17:08<customer>The JPEG images are now saved with a quality of 46% instead of 90%. Don't know where this value is taken from or why.
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17:26<customer>Can someone please go to my website and tell me if the thumbnail images are high or low quality? I'm using a UMTS connection at the moment and have the suspicion that there is a proxy sitting inbetween compression images.
17:28<@pparadis>those look great to me.
17:28<@pparadis>no serious compression artifacts that i can see.
17:28-!-maku` is now known as maku`off
17:28<WoodWork>Loving this one:
17:28<customer>ok, if you cant see artifacts everything is okay. must be my connection
17:28<@pparadis> <-- 426 KB for me.
17:29<customer>pparadis: 56 KB
17:29<customer>I feel much better now
17:30<@pparadis>yeah, something in between you and that photo is doing some nasty compression ;)
17:30<@pparadis>to get around stuff like that, you could set up a VPN on your linode and proxy through that.
17:30<@pparadis>if you care enough, that is. maybe just knowing they're alright for others is enough.
17:31<dominikh>UMTS tends to do that, yeah (reducing quality). some providers also offer a web interface to adjust those settings
17:32<@pparadis>yeah, that stuff's been around for awhile. i can see the utility of it for "average web surfing," but for developers it can be a real pain.
17:34<AviMarcus>no customer your thumbnails are perfect
17:34<dominikh>what my provider does, and that really annoys me, is inject javascript into every page I visit, to display a "You can change the quality settings $here" tooltip whenever you hover a picture, overwriting the original image title.
17:34<dominikh>it's no fun if you cannot read the xkcd image tooltips :<
17:35<AviMarcus>xkcd :)
17:35<AviMarcus>gmail on the android doesn't show the tooltip either
17:35<AviMarcus>have to read xkcd on my pc
17:36<@ericoc>theres an xkcdviewer android app
17:36<customer>I'm using Vodafone UMTS. I'm trying to find a "Don't fuck with my images" option.
17:37<dominikh>customer: check the image tooltips, they should include a link to the settings; at least if they do the same thing in your country as in mine :)
17:37<AviMarcus>ericoc, I use feedburner to get it emailed to me
17:38*AviMarcus checks the marketplace on his archos 101
17:39<AviMarcus>geez, how many xkcd viewers does one need??
17:42<customer>dominikh, thanks. They do it, too. Changed settings and everything looks normal now.
17:42<dominikh>customer: not surprising actually, I see you're in the same country as me :)
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17:58<linbot>New news from forums: Linode's unreadable login forms in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
18:01<johnp>hoopycat: you still there
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18:21<jeremyb>johnp: what's up?
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18:23<alain>i have a couple of questions
18:23<alain>with linode.. you can host a ruby on rails app correct?
18:24<@caker>heck yes! We even host the Rails Rumble
18:24<alain>what is that?
18:24<@caker>48 programming contest using RoR
18:24<@caker> ROOOOOR!
18:26<alain>there is good documentation on how to run a rails app on it?
18:28<@caker>it's the same as on any other Linux box -- check these out!
18:30<alain>this irc is useful
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18:39<mbreslin>those results are a farce
18:40<roeland>hello. got a quick apache question
18:40<mbreslin>obviously team jessica alba should have won based on team name alone
18:40<harrumph>wow, chrome really can drive you nuts. its' the only browser on my machine that hangs loading a site on my linode. cleared cache, and i'm %100 sure the other browsers are seeing the site
18:40<roeland>how do i go about having a folder inside one of my websites havent its contents be in another folder
18:40<mbreslin>harrumph: i run chrome-dev, link me?
18:40<roeland>for example has a root directory of c:/site1
18:41-!-afolson is now known as Perihelion
18:41<roeland>and would have a root directory c:/someotherdir/abc
18:41<roeland>is that possible within the vhost config?
18:41<bob2>if you're using apache, an Alias
18:42<harrumph>mbreslin: sure:
18:42<mbreslin>harrumph: i get to login/password screen
18:42<mbreslin>pretty quickly
18:42<harrumph>so do i, just only with firefox and safari
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18:43<harrumph>chrome hangs
18:43<harrumph>there was a dns change a few hours ago
18:43<mbreslin>are you on the main chrome branch
18:43<harrumph>i assume so
18:43<bob2>I get odd chrome hangs sometimes too
18:44<mbreslin>my first thought would be it's some weird bug that is fixed in beta or dev
18:44<bob2>they are using movie IP addresses for versions now?
18:44<roeland>bob2, thank you, that worked wonderfully
18:44<harrumph>lol @ movie ip addresses
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18:45<bob2>roeland: excellent
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19:39<@caker>[== ]
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19:41<@pparadis>caker: i said you should upgrade from that 14.4 modem.
19:42<jeremyb>maybe he's in egypt?
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19:47<@Perihelion>If I were protesting I'd walk like an Egyptian.
19:47<@Perihelion>They wouldn't know what hit em
19:47<bob2>too soon
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20:26<SleePy>Never had a psu fail on me :o. One just failed in one of my systems.. Thing just shut off and wont turn back on (there is power through the wire so I know its the psu).
20:27<BarkerJr>you need to power off the PSU for 10 seconds then power it on again
20:27<SleePy>From what others said about using it, they have been doing that for about a month without telling me. It won't work this time
20:28<SleePy>Its such an old computer and had a special psu in it. Finding a replacement will be a pita. Will just look at getting a newer computer (its 10 years old).
20:28<BarkerJr>there's a few things that can cause this: 1) your PSU overheating, 2) your computer drawing too much power than the PSU can handle, and 3) a short-circuit in your computer (see 2)
20:29<BarkerJr>maybe more thngs
20:30<SleePy>A short circut shouldn't of occurred. There hasn't been hardware changes in years. It wasn't all that dusty either. I use a low air pressure (30-40 psi) and blow it out every 3 months
20:30<SleePy>The PSU wasn't that hot when I touched it. It was warm but not a burning hot
20:30<BarkerJr>maybe it just died, like you said
20:30<SleePy>Its 10 years old :)
20:31<BarkerJr>yeah, with 10-year-old hardware, it could be anything, heh
20:31-!-duckydan [~duckydan@] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
20:31<BarkerJr>maybe you can find a psu on ebay
20:31<SleePy>I was told when they did the turn of psu thing, that the time would need to be reset. Which indicates that the battery is dead as well
20:32<BarkerJr>that's what ntp is for
20:32<SleePy>Its supposed to be :|
20:33<SleePy>I believe I have them syncing off a ntp server from a uni here in WA
20:34<BarkerJr>well, at least it died in its sleep
20:36<SleePy>lol.. No somebody was using it
20:40<SleePy>Thats what backups are for :D
20:51<BarkerJr>well, the hard drive might be recoverable
20:51<BarkerJr>we're still using the same IDE standard we've always used
20:51<BarkerJr>same 4-pin power connectors
20:57<SleePy>I am sure it is. But who knows what went on when it failed. I wasn't around to see the failure to see and listen for what happened.
20:58-!-VladGh [~vladgh@] has joined #linode
20:59<SleePy>I have another computer that has IDE and I can hook it up to pull files from. Luckily I kept my user files on a separate hd and symlinked the user folder. So if I can recover just that HD, I don't care about the system drive :D
21:05-!-MrPPS [] has quit [Quit: Rebooting]
21:05<auraka>I think we need linodes in Egypt
21:06<SleePy>This was just a surprise to me. Never had a PSU fail on me. I have heard stories of sparks, meltdowns, noises and other things.. This one just went silent and doesn't seem like caused any trouble.
21:07<auraka>Everything eletronic will fail at some point
21:07<auraka>why would a
21:07<auraka>PSU failure suprise you
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21:11-!-VladGh [~vladgh@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:11<linbot>New news from forums: Gaping insecurity in CentOS 5.5 32-bit and maybe others in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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21:12<SleePy>Because I didn't see it coming. I would expect signs of a psu failure. Nobody realized that the system was turning off and thought others where shutting it of. But I never experienced anything to indict to me a psu failing
21:13<BarkerJr>if we had linodes in egypt, then our sites would still be accessible there
21:14-!-VladGh [~vladgh@] has joined #linode
21:14<Nivex>they withdrew their BGP routes entirely. My guess is they probably aren't even peering with each other at this point, let alone the outside world
21:16<BarkerJr>if they just withdrew BGP routes, then outgoing UDP packets would still work, right?
21:16<jeremyb>forget about peering... why even keep the power running at the central office or equivalent?
21:16<jeremyb>BarkerJr: huh?
21:16<Nivex>BarkerJr: THERE ARE NO ROUTES!
21:16<Nivex>BarkerJr: Have you never seen the "No route to host" message come back to you?
21:18<jeremyb>or a bogon
21:19<BarkerJr>right, but but if they withdrew the routes to their IPs, then routes to outside IPs will still work
21:19-!-message144 [] has joined #linode
21:19<jeremyb>but bogons are going away soon with the ipv4 drought?
21:19<jeremyb>BarkerJr: huh?
21:19<Ovron>you rarely go A->B, more like A->B->C->D->E, and if you have no route information for the nodes inbetween, too bad
21:19<Nivex>BarkerJr: I think you fail to grasp the symmetry of the situation
21:20<bob2>bogons won't go away
21:20<bob2>not every possible network will be announced
21:20<BarkerJr>I think you fail to explain it to me properly :P
21:20<Nivex>if you terminate a BGP session, both sides lose the routing information. Anyone originating a packet in Egypt will get as far as their ISP, which will then return an ICMP "No route to host" message
21:20<StevenK>BarkerJr: Traffic can exit, sure. But the remote machine has to know how to return the packet.
21:20<BarkerJr>if I send a packet from A to B, and A has no routes to it, why won't it get delivered to B?
21:20<Nivex>unless, as jeremyb said, they don't even have power
21:21<BarkerJr>UDP doesn't require a return path
21:21<Nivex>StevenK: no, the traffic can't exit. there's no path.
21:21<Nivex>think lower in the 7-layer burrito... err OSI model :)
21:21<SleePy>Doesn't mean that UDP would work.
21:21<StevenK>Isn't dyanmic routing fun?
21:21-!-MrPPS [] has joined #linode
21:21<Nivex>UDP can't work beacuse there is no *IP* route
21:21<bob2>BarkerJr: at some point you hit a router in the DFZ
21:21<bob2>ie default-free-zone
21:22<bob2>that router has to have a route to every network on the internet
21:22<bob2>currently none of them in egypt have routes outside egypt
21:22<bob2>ergo packet goes no further
21:22<BarkerJr>so they programmed that DFZ router to ignore routing information from outside
21:23<bob2>the router gets the routes via bgp
21:23<bob2>and presumably the egyptian government made them terminate all their bgp sessions
21:23<Nivex>they didn't program it, they just turned off the meachnism to get the routes entirely
21:23<bob2>where "made" may include rubber hose or a pair of garden shears
21:23<HoopyCat>or they may have just severed the underlying connections, either mechanically or logically
21:24<HoopyCat>is the egyptian pstn state-owned?
21:24<Nivex>HoopyCat: it's possible, but looking at the graphs it looked a bit more controlled.
21:24<Boohemian>is there a way to copy, say ~/Documents and any file that already exists in the location i am trying to copy to, will not be copied again and the copy will continue through the rest of ~/Documents ?
21:24<BarkerJr>use rsync
21:25<bob2>rsync will obliterate the remote side by default
21:25-!-Max_ [] has joined #linode
21:25<Nivex>by default, yes, but there are flags
21:26<Boohemian>do i have to recopy everything from the original ~/Document to my backup drive with rsync (for instance, my ~/Movies folder, which i am also backing up is 800GB)
21:26<Boohemian>i don't want to miss anything, but i don't want to go through it one by one?
21:28<BarkerJr>I just backup /home
21:28<Ovron>rsync will only copy over changed things, man rsync and look at what it does
21:29<amitz>rsapshot ftw!
21:29*Ovron sapshots amitz, in an ENTERPRISE way
21:31<HoopyCat>Nivex: neigh shut is only a few seconds faster than int bigass0/0:0\nshut is only a few seconds faster than *plink* :-)
21:31<amitz>yes, there will be a (r)sapshots, an extended version of rsnapshot with more ENTERPRISEy feature.
21:34<BarkerJr>it is noted that egypt stock exchange is hosted on four egyption ISPs, and three of them are down, but the fourth is still up
21:34<linbot>an ENTERPRISE java coder but a failure of a matchmaker
21:35<BarkerJr>this means that you should work harder at getting your linodes working in all five data centres, which all use different ISPs
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21:40<BarkerJr>well, the government keeps working on this internet kill switch
21:41<BarkerJr>don't think it couldn't happen here
21:41*Ovron distributes tinfoil hats
21:41<Nivex>BarkerJr: I dunno. Maybe Egypt was just a proof of concept. Seems like all you have to do is say "national security" and people do whatever the government says
21:45<BarkerJr>well, if you have your server mirrored in london, then it probably wouldn't be shutdown if the usa internet was down
21:45<pharaun>yes but it will still do you no good
21:45<pharaun>*I* want my internet
21:45<BarkerJr>hehe. true
21:45<pharaun>I want to be able to get information, news, etc on what is going on
21:45<pharaun>i don't care about serving out info
21:46<pharaun>that is my chief concern about say a internet kill switch
21:46<Ovron>pharaun: sat uplink, go!
21:46<amitz>!calc 175 * 50400
21:46<linbot>amitz: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
21:47<pharaun>Ovron: hah indeed, but most residental would be to an american centerical company and all of that
21:47<Ovron>pharaun: send up your own sat!
21:47<pharaun>so when those pipes get cut, it won't do you any good unless you got the $$ to bounce it to some outside company/outside country
21:47<pharaun>not going to happen for joe me public
21:48<pharaun>I do wonder what the traveling sitution would be like when/if they employ some form or manner of internet kill switch?
21:48-!-seanh-ansca [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:48<pharaun>like will I be able to even leave the country to say canada then bounce over to somewhere?
21:49<jeremyb>yeah, when would it be used?
21:50<jeremyb>for a worm or virus? wouldn't the ISPs have an inherent interest in stopping it if it were that bad
21:50<pharaun>and it seems somewhat self-defeating
21:50<pharaun>cut off all of our trade, business/etc
21:50<pharaun>*MASSIVE* economical blow
21:50<Nivex>jeremyb: that's the thing that annoys me about the legislation. The gov't needs to stay out of it and leave it to us professionals.
21:51<Nivex>jeremyb: we know what's best for the network. we designed it after all.
21:51<pharaun>plus if they cut off all internet, economical impact is going to be massive
21:51<Nivex>jeremyb: (unless you're Al Gore ;)
21:51<pharaun>it may not be for say "joe doe public"
21:51<jeremyb>i am!
21:51-!-niemeyer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:51<pharaun>but it sure as hell would affect the stock market, banking, trade industry, etc unless they all have their own independent network ?
21:51<jeremyb>i think it's John Q. Public
21:54<BarkerJr>I think those of us that live up north should run fiber across the border and setup pirate internet (think "pirate radio")
21:54<Nivex>BarkerJr: heck you probably could use pirate radio. some 802.11, canopy, or the like
21:56<@jed>Nivex: the boat that rocked
21:56<Nivex>jed: saywhatnow?
21:57-!-Knight [] has joined #linode
21:58<@Perihelion>sit down youre rockin the boat
21:58*Perihelion don henleys
21:59<Nivex>Hail and well greeted Perihelion!
21:59<Nivex>You have arrived just as I was about to retire for the evening :/
21:59<@Perihelion>No worries, I'm getting ready to go take a shower
21:59*pharaun cancels Nivex retiring
22:00*Perihelion cancels pharaun
22:00<BarkerJr>was it just me, or did the captain in that movie look strikingly like paul watson?
22:00*pharaun is cancelled
22:00-!-techhelper1 [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
22:01*BarkerJr mounts pharaun in his stamp collection
22:01<Nivex>linode center 420LN would like to cancel IFR at this time
22:01*pharaun breaks free of the stamp collection!
22:05<@jed>zero lima november VFR approved
22:05-!-Max_ [] has quit [Quit: Max_]
22:08<@caker>frequency change approved; have a nice day
22:10-!-techhelper1 [] has joined #linode
22:11<@jed>ladies and gentlemen: is ranked 527th in cambodia by alexa
22:11<@jed>this is a triumph \o/
22:11-!-Captain_Intern [~Captain_I@] has joined #linode
22:11<@jed>next round's on me.
22:11<Captain_Intern>Where at?
22:13<@jed>it's a holiday in cambodia!
22:13<@jed>it's tough, kid, but it's life
22:13<Captain_Intern>I really never enjoyed cambodia
22:13-!-Xenc [] has quit [Quit: Xenc]
22:17-!-Xenc [] has joined #linode
22:21<jeremyb>jed: do you speak khmer?
22:22-!-Kyhwana [~luizg@2001:e20:2000:3001::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:29<warewolf>OH NOZ
22:37<linbot>New news from forums: fail2ban not working .. in General Discussion <>
22:38<encode>fail2ban fails2work
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22:41<@caker> !!!!
22:41-!-nikcymickey [] has joined #linode
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22:45<qaliad>wow, beautiful vid. what's that bipping noise near the end?
22:46-!-newnick [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
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22:52<dcraig>I feel like there was some packet loss in fremont
22:52<dcraig>but it could be in my head
22:53<linbot>New news from forums: Linode unreachable again, no status update in General Discussion <> || SSH authenticatin issues deploying Rails app via capistrano in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
22:54-!-nikcymickey [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
22:56<nickymickey>me quit
23:02-!-Bass10 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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23:03<linbot>New news from forums: Can't install awstats on Ubuntu 8.04 ... apt-get newb alert! in Web Servers and Web App Development <> || [fixed] Linode unreachable again, no status update in General Discussion <>
23:06<@caker>qaliad: that is the stall warning horn
23:06<@caker>which is a good thing 3' above the ground when landing :)
23:07<qaliad>I thought it might be, cause you picked up the revs
23:07<@caker> <-- another beautiful landing!
23:08<bob2>caker: are you the 2000th caker?
23:10-!-jhenry [] has joined #linode
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23:13<linbot>New news from forums: How can I use Google Apps for users, but vps for apps? in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
23:18-!-drupfly [] has joined #linode
23:19<drupfly>hi ... I need to install vsftpd ... any help on this
23:19<bob2>do you really need to use ftp?
23:19<encode>cool video caker
23:19<drupfly>yes .. it is necessary
23:20<encode>makes it look pretty easy
23:20<bob2>neccessary like a fox!
23:20<drupfly>yes .. like a fox
23:23<Ovron>flying must be awesome fun
23:23<qaliad>drupfly: friends don't help friends install ftpds
23:24<linbot>New news from forums: [fixed] Linode unreachable - disregard in General Discussion <>
23:25-!-Captain_Intern [~Captain_I@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:25<drupfly>qaliad: suggest me something else then .. I am using a doamin on my linode account as a cdn ... and neet to ftp my files to it ...
23:25<SleePy>!library sftp
23:25<linbot>SleePy: 1. Limiting Access with SFTP Jails on Debian and Ubuntu ( - 2. Transfer Files with Filezilla on Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop ( - 3. Transfer Files with Cyberduck on Mac OS X (
23:26-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
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23:35<qaliad>shouldn't the cdn pull from the origin anyway?
23:36<qaliad>pull ^files
23:38<HoopyCat>it's probably less of a cdn and more of a "cdn"
23:40<HoopyCat>you know, noone ever asks how to enable telnet
23:40<@jed>perfect with morcheeba.
23:40<@jed>4 parts morcheeba, 2 parts that. serve chilled
23:41-!-Keyz_ [] has joined #linode
23:41<HoopyCat> ... monday night looks like a doozie
23:42*HoopyCat goes to sleep somewhere around the 8th paragraph
23:42<qaliad>jed: that guy nearly lost his hand doing that.. had a hole in his glove
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23:52<XercesBlue>a metar.. sweet :D
23:54-!-syndere [] has joined #linode
23:55<syndere>anyone have any idea why an apache server would suddenly take 15-30 seconds to serve pages, even static html? problem didn't exist yesterday, no excessive cpu or ram usage, no dropped packets and restarting apache doesn't even seem to give me a few seconds of quick loadtimes
23:57-!-XercesBlue [~wasd@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
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23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.60194683, 0.38482608) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17605 of 22389 (π ≈ 3.145294564294966 - 0.003701910705173)
23:59*Perihelion punts SelfishMan
---Logclosed Mon Jan 31 00:00:40 2011