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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-02-14

---Logopened Mon Feb 14 00:00:04 2011
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00:04<amitz>btw, they're planning an offline version of wikipedia, interesting
00:05<bob2>there's a few devices you can buy now that do that
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00:07<amitz>oh, interesting. And also real life campaigns. That probably explains the sudden increase of projected expense. Still haven't looked at the break down between different part of wikimedia though.
00:09<bob2>wp doesn't fund the above
00:11<amitz>bob2: you mean wikipedia fund is not supposed to fund the above?
00:12<bob2>the devices I'm talking about were made by random third parties
00:14<amitz>oh, okay.
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00:16<amitz>44 new positions: 10 for tech positions, so I guess 34 for non-tech, hmmm
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00:21<amitz>dammit, their numbers don't add up. Concerning new hire, between Projected Spending, Appendix: Top Spending Increases, and Planned New Hires.
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01:59<levvie>hey, someone once told me to do something or other in the linode dashboard thing so that when I would irc while ssh'd into my linode, my hostmask on irc would be my domain
02:00<levvie>where exactly would I go in the linode's settings page to enable/disable this? I sorta forget
02:02<InitHello>remote access, erm ...
02:02<InitHello>one moment
02:02<chesty>it's called rdns, I forget where it is in the dashboard
02:02<InitHello>dashboard for your linode -> remote access -> click on reverse dns under the public ip section
02:03<InitHello>remember, the hostname you want needs to resolve to the IP you want to associate it with
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02:05<levvie>there's one entry in the 'current reverse dns'. my domain does show as my hostmask, I'm wanting to not having it be this way any longer - what would i do? there seems to be no way to 'remove' that entry, if that's what I'm to do
02:06<InitHello>beats me, you'll have to wait for linode staff on that one
02:06<InitHello>hang on ... do you remember what it was before you assigned the hostname?
02:07<InitHello>boo. I think it would be possible to enter the original hostname and set it to that
02:07<linbot>double pits to chesty, he nailed it
02:08<@heckman>you want the rdns back?
02:08<@heckman>open a ticket, I'll try to do the needful.
02:08<@heckman>No promises tho
02:08<InitHello>morning heckman
02:09<@heckman>How's it going?
02:09<InitHello>pretty good, just finished writing and testing a geoip script for irssi
02:09<@heckman>Good stuff!
02:09<InitHello>works like a charm, and uses a local db for speed
02:10<@heckman>That's pretty nifty!
02:11<linbot>heck, man, do I look like a Viking
02:11<InitHello> if anyone wants to stea ... er ... use it
02:11<@heckman>That's horrible!
02:11<@heckman>I think it shoudl be: beware, for it is the pseudoviking!
02:11<levvie>ticket opened (no 363605)
02:11<@heckman>I know :)
02:12<levvie>ohh, you're good
02:12<InitHello>on a side note, who says perl code needs to be unreadable?
02:20<InitHello>aye, but mymom would say even python code is unreadable
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02:59<czr>shouldn't it be :-)
02:59<czr>& mornink
02:59<Marius>google's blacklist is a right bitch.
03:00<czr>Marius, how did you end up on it?
03:00<czr>too much virtual village?
03:01<Marius>no, one of our clients had ze virus
03:01<Marius>sent emails through their outlook client, which of course was authed so the mail went through
03:01<Knight>leenodah eh
03:01<Marius>and did you know, google's blacklist doens't have a "remove me" function?
03:01<czr>heh, that's good
03:01<Marius>One of my linodes has an IP form a previous owner that's blacklisted as well
03:02<Marius>I need a new IP to resolve it, but cba
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03:04<bob2>if you have windows clients, you need to rate limit/antispam/antivirus their outgoing mail
03:04<czr>no. you just replace the windows clients with sane ones
03:05<Marius>they're ALL windows clients
03:05<Marius>except the 3 mac users...who also must die.
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03:09<InitHello>czr: if you want to register, go right ahead
03:09*InitHello doesn't feel like paying another $15 for .in registration
03:10<czr>InitHello, you think I should?
03:10<@heckman>I paid like $40 for
03:10<czr>I mean, based on the chatter that I generate here.
03:10<czr>I remember having many many years back. then it timed out and I lost it
03:10<bob2>heckman: yeah but you're on linode-money
03:10<czr>( was already taken)
03:10<Zeus>thats funny, i didnt pay anythin for urmom
03:11<@heckman>Right now I'm broke...
03:11<@heckman>The apartment move killed me. Checking account is overdrafted.
03:12<InitHello>too bad is taken
03:12<@heckman>Perihelion: has
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03:13<czr>ah. so is I could've made :-(
03:13<InitHello>someone in here has and
03:14<InitHello>czr: and of course some genius registered years and years ago
03:14<czr>of course
03:15<InitHello>too bad ontario can't have a cctld, or I'd want hotxxxpr.on
03:16<bob2>catalonia got one
03:16<bob2>and now everyone can have a tld if they pay icann enough
03:16<czr>what's the catalonia -one?
03:17<czr>oh my.
03:17*InitHello bets was the first .cat to be registered
03:18<bob2>created 2010
03:18<Marius>aww yeah
03:18<bob2>so if it was, it dropped in the mean time
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03:18<InitHello>bob2: doesn't the entity buying a tld also have to host the root servers for it?
03:18<bob2>which is a shame
03:18<bob2>InitHello: maybe!
03:18<bob2>that's not super hard though
03:18<czr>you just pay someone to host them
03:18<InitHello>... my 1024 probably couldn't handle it
03:19<bob2>well, 3 1024s perhaps could ;)
03:19<InitHello>well ... it probably could for the first few days, and after that, registrations would've earned me enough to get 2 more
03:19<czr>hmm. how to set them up in anycast though?
03:19<czr>cause I think the trend nowadays is having multiple nodes per IP in anycast configuration
03:19<bob2>you'd need awful hacks to get anycast to your linode
03:20<czr>yes, that's what I'm asking
03:20<bob2>but not even all the . nameservers are anycasted
03:20*czr nods
03:20<czr>the scandinavian ones I think are setup in a balancer anycast setup between se and fi
03:21<czr>but that was some years ago, maybe they've changed something again.. haven't really followed
03:22<InitHello>awww, all 2-character tlds are reserved for countries
03:22<czr>that leaves the 2-punctuation ones though
03:22<czr>like !!
03:22<czr>for example yes
03:22<WormFood>or make your own TLD ;)
03:22<WormFood>at home, I have the .worm TLD
03:23<WormFood>my file server is book.worm (not really, but it sounds good)
03:23<czr>well, it wouldn't be impossible to build an DNS arch if you'd want it
03:23<WormFood>of course czr
03:23<czr>wasn't the whole idea in the torrent dns blah after they shut down the domains for wikipedia?
03:23<WormFood>czr, in fact, that is what you do for internal networks
03:23<czr>don't remember what the name for that project was
03:23<czr>WoodWork, you don't say? :-)
03:23<WormFood>you can point any any domain name to any address, for your computer (or network)
03:23<czr>I mean globally distributed namespaces though. internal ones are non-interesting.
03:24<WormFood>you can hijack, but only on your computer or could point it to your own web server ,if you wanted
03:24<czr>you can also shut it down and watch the clients be confused
03:24<czr>or, write really long domain labels
03:25<czr>or write them in binary and see which resolvers break
03:25<czr>but as I said, internal namespaces are non-interesting.
03:26<Marius>I just discovered that my jobs subnet has no abuse@ contact in RIPE
03:28<bob2>haha alternic
03:28<bob2>don't forget opennic and pacific root
03:29<czr>hmm. can't find the project wiki now
03:29<Marius>somewhat related, does anyone know how to edit information at ?
03:29<czr>but it was more or less envigorated after wikileaks dns hosting was shut down the first time
03:30<czr>Marius, ?
03:30<Marius>Oh right, thanks xD
03:30<Marius>I'm blind, I know
03:30<praetorian>wonder if i can use this to get my linode hosting for free
03:30<czr>that's ok
03:31<czr>praetorian, hehe
03:31<praetorian>the crazyness of some people amase me.
03:32<czr>I think the worst thing about those crazy people is that they actually get elected
03:33<Marius>I actually had a client like that >_<
03:36*InitHello notices the past tense
03:36<InitHello>how long did you have that client?
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03:37<@heckman>praetorian: I would tell them straight up no
03:38*czr is disappointed at lack of recursion
03:39*InitHello thinks lmao should return lulzmao
03:40*heckman thinks InitHello should stop thinking
03:41-!-Hoggs [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:41*InitHello would, but can't afford that much whiskey
03:44<praetorian>heckman: haha. naturally.
03:44*czr offers some chinese baijiu to inithello
03:44<praetorian>heckman: maybe the best response would be "lol?"
03:45*InitHello googles that before accepting or declining
03:45*InitHello accepts
03:45<czr>it's pretty bad. it's like 40% alcohol, 40% benzene, 20% secret ingredients
03:45<czr>but it washes away brain pretty good
03:45<czr>plus it's dirt cheap in china.
03:45<@heckman>praetorian: I would laugh if my client tried to take me to court.
03:45<InitHello>oh, so roughly equivalent to cheap norwegian moonshine?
03:45<@heckman>court fees + them losing
03:46<czr>InitHello, you can't really imagine it.. it's beyond any imagination..
03:46<praetorian>the court case would only last 3 seconds
03:46<@heckman>the judge: lol?
03:46<praetorian>czr: you should get some
03:47<InitHello>your honor, defense moves for dismissal on the grounds that the plaintiff is an idiot
03:47<czr>praetorian, that looks actually quite civilized..
03:47<praetorian>its german schappes. about 48% alcohol
03:47*czr nods
03:48<dominikh>wth is schappes
03:48<InitHello>I discovered, to my great surprise, that peppermint schnapps tastes very minty
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03:48<czr>anything above ~55% is over my normal level.. it requires special mental preparations..
03:48<dominikh>yeah, Schnap(p)s I know.
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03:49<InitHello>I generally prefer beer, because it doesn't get me drunk too fast
03:49<czr>if you really want to burn your taste buds, you could try some of the pepper/chili vodkas
03:49<praetorian>i like beer, by the litre.
03:49<czr>somehow adding chili to vodka = seems like a good idea to some people..
03:49<praetorian>at the time..
03:49<InitHello>I like to stay at the ballmer peak for as long as possible
03:49<czr>ballmer peak <3.
03:50<InitHello>oh, that's like the shot I invented: 1 part tabasco sauce, 1 part 90% abv moonshine
03:50<dominikh>czr: want a bloody mary? :P
03:50<czr>oh yes please!
03:50<czr>bloody mary is one of my favourites actually
03:50<InitHello>pardon me, sir, I believe you have a cat in your trousers
03:50<dominikh>so chili is weird, tobasco is okay? :P
03:50<czr>it is ok, esp since bloody mary is so diluted in alc content
03:51<InitHello>martinis are good, too
03:51<czr>and I didn't say I wouldn't drink the chili vodka.
03:51<InitHello>a bit on the sweet side, but still good
03:51<czr>just saying that it's somehow a combination that manages to amaze me still
03:51<dominikh>hehe, okay
03:51<czr>I normally just drink beer or a GT nowadays
03:52<czr>most bartenders here are crappy anyway and can't make good drinks.
03:52<czr>(damn difficult to find a properly made tom collins).
03:52<InitHello>yeah, I'll pass on drinking the bloody hell (what I named that shot) ever again
03:52<czr>heh. reminds me of a drink that we did many years ago.
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03:53<czr>we called it Toxic Schlümpfe
03:53<czr>vodka, milk and some "Smurf"-limonade (sold here in shops, don't ask)
03:54<czr>what happens is that the milk coagulates with the limonade
03:54<InitHello>milk and lemonade?
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03:54*InitHello shudders
03:54<czr>and the whole thing turns into a bad .. thing..
03:54<czr>hence the name
03:54<InitHello>how did it taste, though?
03:54<czr>I couldn't finish mine.
03:54<czr>a friend drank them both
03:54<Marius>it tastes like toxic waste.
03:54<czr>or ate
03:54<czr>not sure..
03:54<Marius>hence the name
03:54<czr>InitHello, quite horrid.
03:55<InitHello>I know norwegians will quite happily mix alcohol with anything
03:55<InitHello>including oatmeal and yogurt
03:55<@heckman>The latter could be interesting
03:55<czr>I found that dropping a bit (not much) of good smoke whiskey into good older port wine = very yummy.
03:56<czr>it's like super-port-wine after that
03:56<czr>although one has to be careful with the ratio
03:56<InitHello>portified wine?
03:56<czr>otherwise it turns into crap
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04:02<megatron27>oatmeal <3
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04:08<megatron27>how come nginx appends the whole URL to the location's root?
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04:09<megatron27>I like I mapped the /cache url to a direct called /home/appserver/cache
04:09<megatron27>and when it looks for files
04:09<megatron27>it's looking for them in /home/appserver/cache/cache/
04:09<megatron27>that's very strange behvior
04:10<megatron27>. o O ( read - )
04:11<bob2>not very strange
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04:12<Fox>what's happened in london?
04:12<Fox>test test
04:13<@heckman>London is good here. Run an MTR?
04:13<GLaDOSDan>Yeah london is fine here too
04:14<megatron27>yeah, I should be using alias instead of root
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04:15<megatron27>what the world needs now
04:16<@heckman>Fox_______: stop flooding!
04:17<Marius>megatron27: is love sweet love.
04:17-!-Fox_____ [] has joined #linode
04:18<GLaDOSDan>oh god
04:18<megatron27>Marius, and less Christina Aguilera movies
04:18<Fox_____>what's going on in london?
04:18<Fox_____>my server is down
04:18<czr>megatron27, huh? can't be
04:18<Fox_____>and no graphgs on linode are showing
04:18<@heckman>Fox_____: nothing is going on in London, please stop flooding
04:18-!-andrejbauer [~andrejbau@] has joined #linode
04:18<bob2>Fox_____: then login to LPM and have a look instead of complaining
04:18<Fox_____>i did; nothing
04:18<megatron27>czr, what?
04:18<@heckman>Fox_____: So open a support ticket?
04:18<GLaDOSDan>run an MTR
04:18<czr>megatron27, one cannot have less christina aguilera movies.
04:18<@ericoc>Fox_____: if you're having trouble, feel free to open a ticket, but we may need an MTR report or traceroute
04:19<amitz>christina aguilera still exists?
04:19<czr>hey amitz
04:19<@heckman>Yeah, and she forgets lyrics to important songs
04:19<Marius>amitz, she's just put on more clothes ;P
04:19<czr>yes, I keep her in my closit.
04:19<megatron27>is it possible to configure your command line such that it only sends the command to the server when you press enter?
04:19<Marius>I kind of like her new retro look way more then her "I'm a slut, look at my barely covered body" look
04:19<megatron27>my connection is so slow that i need that :D
04:19<Fox_____>ah. lassie didn't work again
04:19<amitz>Marius: aah, perhaps that's why I don't recognize her.
04:19<bob2>use 'securecrt' if you're on windows
04:19<bob2>Marius: :|
04:20<Marius>bob2: it's true though, don't deny it!
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04:20<amitz>czr: wait.. you have christina aguilera action figure?!
04:20<andrejbauer>Can someone give me a quick advice on billing? My company will pay for my node but since we're in EU it's becoming an administrative nightmnare. What if I need the company tax number on the invoice?
04:20<Fox_____>emails reports of high cpu didn't wrk
04:20<czr>amitz, no. I have her in my closit.
04:21<bob2>andrejbauer: sales at
04:21<czr>that's why people don't know that she still exists
04:21<Marius>anders, Is there even a tax line on the linode invoices?
04:21<Marius>wiwm I'm a tabwhore =(
04:22<@heckman>andrejbauer: We're based in the US. We don't have a VAT number.
04:22<@heckman>Or are you looking for our US tax number?
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04:25<Marius>heckman, they're in the EU, they want the tax number so they can get their VAT back
04:25<Marius>but there is no VAT I think
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04:25<Marius>At least that's the only thing that makes sense in my head, I guess you'll find out when you read the email xD
04:25<czr>there's no VAT when buing from linode into EU
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04:26<czr>they need to mark it as "external acquisition from outside EU" in their systems
04:26<bar>my employer uses linode - is there any chance that when deleting a linode, someone can somehow recover the data that was on that machine ?
04:27<czr>bar, yes
04:27<megatron27>I doubt they securely delete your disk images
04:27<bar>czr: How ?
04:27<warren>the disks aren't zeroed out when you delete them?
04:27<czr>bar, dd
04:28<bar>And how can I zero my disks ?
04:28<czr>dd :-)
04:28<bob2>by running dd
04:28<czr>but again, here you trust your operator implicitly
04:28<bar>on the entire drive ? That would kill the linode at some point ?
04:28<bob2>perhaps you should have run dmcrypt to begin with!
04:28<bob2>you'd run it from finnix
04:28<czr>if you don't trust your operator, then there are no guarantees
04:28<warren>bob2, haha, and type the passphrase during boot in lish?
04:29<bar>czr: I do trust linode, I don't worry about them, but about an anonymous user that purchases a linode...
04:29<warren>deleting disks in Linode control panel seriously doesn't zero them?
04:29<bob2>warren: why not
04:29<bob2>who knows
04:29<bar>How can someone recover the data using dd ?
04:29<warren>that would be pretty important to know
04:29<bob2>zeroing them doesn't neccessarrily solve the problem
04:29<czr>bar, same way that regular data recovery is done
04:29<warren>bob2, it effectively solves it, unless you physically pull the disk out
04:29<bar>czr: how is that ?
04:30<czr>bar, google teaches you better than I can :-).
04:30<bar>czr: I'll read
04:30<bar>yep sorry
04:30<megatron27>new proverb: Google teaches a man how to fish
04:33<bar>I can use dd to copy a drive while it's mounted ?
04:33<bob2>not really
04:33<amitz>warren: they will zero it at physical throwing away.
04:34<megatron27>in Mercurial, tags are just a text file...
04:34<linbot>New news from forums: Deleting disk zeros it out? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
04:34<megatron27>in .hgtags
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04:39<linbot>New news from forums: email server in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
04:40<bar>What "Input/output error" generally means ?
04:40<bar>Lets say I copy something to a NFS share. I get this error. Does it mean that while copying I lost connectivity ?
04:46<bar>czr: I read about dd but couldn't find how to recover deleted data with it ?
04:46<bar>czr: All if found is about copying data from a failing HDD to a safe one..
04:46<bar>but not recovering stuff that has been deleted from a certain drive/partition...
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05:06<linbot>New news from forums: Debian lenny & fuse in General Discussion <>
05:07<warren>woo hoo, earned 6 cents total from adsense
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05:10<hongli>I want to use fuse on my linode server. is there a way to do that? fuse tools complain about the kernel module not being loaded, and modprobe fuse doesn't work
05:13<czr>hongli, grep fuse /proc/filesystems
05:13<hongli>shell:~# grep fuse /proc/filesystems
05:13<hongli>nodev fuse
05:13<hongli> fuseblk
05:13<hongli>nodev fusectl
05:13<czr>hongli, the driver is probably built in into the kernel
05:13<hongli>shell:~# fusecompress some-directory
05:13<hongli>fuse: device not found, try 'modprobe fuse' first
05:13<czr>ls -la /dev/fuse*
05:14<hongli>crw-rw---- 1 root root 10, 229 Feb 14 09:57 /dev/fusectl
05:14<hongli>I made this a few minutes ago based on a forum post
05:14<hongli>before it didn't exist
05:14<hongli>but even after creating the file I still get the same error
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05:14<czr>it's fairly odd that you'd have to create the dev node manually (also, at least here, it's called 'fuse', not 'fusectl')
05:14<hongli>let me try that
05:15<hongli>cool, it worked
05:15<czr>also, I don't know what fusecompress should do even. any link on it?
05:15<czr>ah ok. works then.
05:15<hongli>it's a compressed filesystem.
05:16<hongli>you mean things like drivespace?
05:17<hongli>so... what's wrong with them?
05:17*czr remembers stacker, drivespace and doublespace
05:17<hongli>I have a 12 GB mongodb database here
05:17<hongli>if I compress them it only takes 2 GB
05:17<hongli>the server is not very loaded otherwise
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05:17<dominikh>that's so wrong :/
05:17<hongli>and disk space on linode is already expensive enough
05:17-!-Wulfgar [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:17<hongli>I have cpu to spear
05:18<dominikh>hongli: then adjust the mongodb settings. most of the space is preallocated for faster writes.
05:18<czr>oh wait..
05:18<dominikh>the reason it compresses to 2 GB so well is that most of it is empty.
05:18<czr>we aren't there yet..
05:18<czr>or maybe it's just sparse file :-).
05:19<hongli>tune what?
05:19<czr>which wouldn't be very wise, but possible..
05:19<hongli>there just is that much data
05:19<hongli>and yes there's a lot of redundancy in the data so it compresses well
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05:27<hongli>the database has 8 GB of actual data, it's not just preallocation
05:28<czr>how many files is it split into?
05:28<czr>so if you modify a single file, the whole will be recompressed?
05:28<czr>whole file even
05:28<czr>or are the files only ever appended to?
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05:29<hongli>I don't think fusecompress recompresses the entire file on write
05:29<hongli>but I'll find out
05:29<czr>not on write. on modify.
05:31<hongli>aw damn. "For large files, however, FuseCompress has to uncompress (and later re-compress) files on which non-linear accesses are performed to disk, causing excessive CPU and I/O load and low performance. It is thus not recommended to use FuseCompress for large (read/write) disk images or databases."
05:31<czr>you could always write your own compressing filesystem
05:31<czr>however, achieving high compression with block based compression schemes is always somewhat of a challenge
05:31-!-dale [] has joined #linode
05:31<czr>as there's less redudnancy to exploit per block than across blocks
05:32-!-Ddorda [] has joined #linode
05:33<dale>Hey, I want one of my domains ( to be aliased to (not hosted by me)
05:33<@heckman>You could do that with a CNAME
05:33<dale>would prefer not to set an explicit IP in the A record, but it wont let me add a CNAME with as the host
05:34-!-hongli [] has quit [Quit: hongli]
05:35<@heckman>Ah, sorry I failed at reading. So you are trying to cname the domain.
05:35<dale>yeh when I try and set it I get "Invalid hostname"
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05:38<hang>im trying to use google mail, adjusted my mx settings as i saw on the linode library but still google apps said my settings wrong
05:38<hang>does any1 have information about this?
05:38<MrYiff>it can take a while for google to see the changes
05:38<MrYiff>sometimes 6-12 hours
05:38<hang>its 4 days
05:39<hang>i tried 2 times
05:39<hang>both of them said settings are wrong
05:39<hang>i used this service before but donno what is wrong now
05:39<MrYiff>is it saying that your mx records are wrong or something else?
05:39<hang>it says my mx records are wrong
05:39<hang>but they are not :S
05:40<MrYiff>what is your domain?
05:40<czr>I get NXDOMAIN / SERVFAIL for that.
05:41<MrYiff>me too
05:41<hang>you cant access to that?
05:42<czr>ns* reply with REFUSED for
05:42<MrYiff>its got the linode ns servers but no mx records
05:43<hang>very interesting
05:43<hang>but there are mx records :S
05:43<czr>there are no records infact I think
05:43<MrYiff>try removing them from the linode dns manager, waiting 15mins and then readding them
05:44<hang>i will try that ty
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05:50<burningdog>Using drupal, when horizontally scaling the web server tier, how can I keep the files folder in sync across all server instances?
05:51<burningdog>(although this isn't a drupal-specific problem)
05:52<mallory><amitz> did someone say "ENTERPRISE horizontal scaling of the web server tier"?
05:53<encode>no, they did not
05:53<dale>so is it possible to just alias one domain with another entirely with CNAME? as mentioned I cant seem to do it with linodes dns manager
05:53<dale> aliases give me invalid hostname
05:55<burningdog>any pointers would be helpful - my terminology may be a bit off (first foray into this kind of solution)...and no, I didn't say ENTERPRISE...hehe
05:57<encode>as I have learnt, one cannot CNAME the root of a domain name to another domain name
05:57<encode>subdomains can be cnamed easily enough
05:58<amitz>sorry, firstable i don't know whether drupal has such feature. without drupal support, making it scale while synchronizing stuff may be difficult. butbut i haven't done such thing so...
05:58<dominikh>encode: uhm, are you sure?
06:00<burningdog>Ah, I think Unison is what I'm looking for:
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06:03<encode>dominikh: about 95% sure
06:03<amitz>burningdog: i'm not sure it's enough for frequent writing high traffic stuff, assuming you can't afford inconsistency. but i have no exp so...
06:04<dominikh>encode: do you mean wrt Linode or generally? and by "root of a domain name" you mean ""? or do you actually mean "com"?
06:04<WormFood> <burningdog> Using drupal, when horizontally scaling the web server tier, how can I keep the files folder in sync across all server instances? <-- probably a cron job, to check the folder, connected to rsync to copy it to the other servers
06:04<dominikh>encode: because I know a lot of people who used CNAME on their domain to use it with a particular free hosting company
06:04<burningdog>amitz: ja, I can't find out how often the Unison syncing is done...looks like via a cronjob, which may not be quick enough, or run often enough for my needs.
06:06<MrYiff>have you looked at something like drdb?
06:06<amitz>burningdog: have you looked if drupall provides such service? given drupal's fame, someone should have already done it, assuming drupal mechanism somehow supports it.
06:07-!-megatron27 [~firdaus@] has joined #linode
06:07<burningdog>amitz: drupal has some nice CDN integration stuff, but I haven't found anything else in drupal that allows for this. I'm assuming people are using home-baked rsync scripts, but I'm wondering if there's a more standard solution.
06:08<amitz>only drupal knows its relevant internal state hence the only one who knows when to supend giving response to http request until the next synchronization.
06:10-!-walterheck [] has joined #linode
06:11<amitz>btw, unison should be ok unless your app is.. or drbd? haven't seen it.
06:11<encode>dominikh: i mean like, i'm pretty sure a cname at that level violates the relevant RFCs
06:11<amitz>maybe with mangled log but :-p
06:11-!-Ddorda [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:12<encode>however, I'm happy to be corrected if I am wrong
06:12<encode>it doesn't happen often
06:12<amitz>burningdog: wait, scratch that.
06:13<burningdog>amitz: looks like the only way to do this is to use an external source, like a CDN.
06:13<czr>encode, we had a discussion about this here some months back
06:13<czr>encode, and the concensus was that no one cares about RFCs anymore
06:14<czr>that was also.. a result.
06:14-!-Ddorda [] has joined #linode
06:14<encode>czr: oh, right.
06:14<czr>burningdog, you could use GFS or something like that. on top of drbd
06:14<czr>but that might be a bit too tightly-coupled for you
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06:19<dominikh>encode: check out the cname of "" – works like a charm
06:20<dominikh>(yes, I spend the last 10 minutes on finding a domain :P)
06:22<burningdog>thanks czr - that's a possibility.
06:23<czr>burningdog, it's not for the faint hearted
06:23<burningdog>czr: it doesn't look like it!
06:23<czr>distributed systems have their own class of problems.. mostly "why the **ck isn't it working" and also "where the hell did that request come from"-kind of stuff. tricky to debug.
06:24*czr nods
06:24<czr>anything that requires the invention of STONITH is fun.
06:24<encode>dominikh: just because it's been done, doesn't mean that it complies wtih RFCs. But as czr says, apparently no-one cares any more. I don't think the linode DNS manager will let you do it though
06:25<czr>first time I heard about "STONITH" devices was with some pre-GFS stuff I was playing around
06:25-!-Ddorda [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:25<czr>encode, I know. I'm all for going with the RFCs btw.
06:25*encode arms up linbot, ready to STONITH
06:25<dominikh>encode: I only read that a cname should not point to another cname to prevent circular dependencies – but people don't care about that either
06:25<encode>and by other node, I mean urmom
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06:26<czr>uh oh
06:26*czr starts rejournalling dominikh
06:26<encode>bang bang, you're dead
06:26<czr>it's all good. we run in a transaction environment
06:26<czr>transactional even
06:26<czr>now, who proves that our storage model is coherent?
06:26<encode>time to rol back dominikh
06:26<dominikh>time to leave me alone :P
06:27<encode>also, time to roll into bed
06:27<czr> <- stonith
06:28<czr>burningdog, "Unfortunately, it's possible to wind up in a situation where each node believes the other to be broken; the first node shoots the second, then when the second reboots, it shoots the first, and so on, ad infinitum, until you realise that perhaps a single non-HA node would have been both cheaper and more reliable. This can aptly be referred to as a state of STONITH deathmatch."
06:28<czr>distributed computing = muchos fun.
06:28<burningdog>czr: I can already imagine that happening in my situation
06:28<encode>czr: clearly a HA solution requires a minimum of 3 nodes to avoid such a situation
06:28<burningdog>and I'm also interested to see what happens in this channel now that you've invoked a STONITH deathmatch...
06:29<dominikh>encode: aha! yeah, it is illegal as per RFC because if using cname there must not be any other records for the same domain, and the root domain always has SOA and NS records
06:29<czr>encode, only if you trust the stalemate to be broken via the byzantine generals theory
06:29<czr>however, the theory will break if you have simultanous borkage on two nodes out of three.
06:29<encode>czr: I always trust the byzantine generals theory
06:29<czr>which has happened too.
06:29<czr>I never trust anything
06:29<encode>because theories can never be disproven
06:30<czr>which normally just translates to "no matter how much money you sink into this project, it will still fail given a certain input/environmental conditions".. clients don't like that though..
06:30<encode>yeah, even google fails sometimes
06:31<encode>fortunately, caker-bot never fails
06:31<czr>spacehobo is using a distributed system..
06:36-!-Yvemath [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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06:47<Juampa>I need your help, please
06:47<mallory><amitz> ENTERPRISE is by default a multiple-distributed-multi-tiers-integrated-synergized-over-federated-cloud system.
06:47<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
06:48<Juampa>We have detected that LINODE IS HOSTING A FRAUDULENT WEBSITE that offers a PHISHING SCAM against CAJA MADRID BANK
06:48<Juampa>We need your colaboration for stopping this fraud
06:49<amitz>send email to for proper paper trail.
06:49<dominikh>mail to
06:49<amitz>s/paper /e-/
06:49<czr>byzantine generals ftw.
06:49<Juampa>your response
06:50<Juampa>Thank you for this report.
06:50<Juampa>We've opened a ticket with our client to have them investigate. We've given them 4 hours to remove the content before we forcibly disable access.
06:50<Juampa>We await
06:51<Juampa>I need your help please
06:51<czr>Juampa, have you waited more than 4 hours?
06:51<amitz>email after 4 hours have passed?
06:51<dominikh>this is a community chat
06:51<Juampa>Yes, I wait more 4 hours
06:52<dominikh>for what it's worth, I cannot access that page, it times out.
06:52<czr>same here
06:52<czr>times on TCP level
06:52<dominikh>can't even ping it, so looks pretty disabled
06:52<Juampa>I need an answer. I need help to eliminate this fraud.
06:52<czr>Juampa, what is the problem?
06:52<czr>if you need an official answer, I suggest you contact abus@ again and ask for one.
06:52<dominikh>Juampa: 1) this is a community chat. if you need official answers, write emails 2) the server looks disabled from here.
06:53<amitz>Juampa: just write an email to asking for an official response if that's what you want.
06:54<amitz>I feel like having 2 doppelgangers... :-p
06:54<czr>I feel like having 2 triplegangers!
06:54<dominikh>amitz: yes, we are like you, just in awesome.
06:54<Juampa>I just checked and I think the site no longer resolves.
06:55<Juampa>Thanks for your help and cooperation to all!
06:56<czr>we didn't do anything :-)
06:56<czr>it was your first email that caused the closure.
06:56<amitz>it's not us, but we're glad to be thanked :-)
06:56<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
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06:58<Juampa>See you friends!
06:58-!-niemeyer [] has joined #linode
06:58<kronos003>itll be nice when this intel chipset thing blows over - cant seem to find any good deals on laptops these day
06:58<czr>kronos003, which intel chipset thing?
06:58<czr>ah, you mean the recall because of the sata-issue?
06:58<kronos003>apparently the newest i7's were having issues with the intel chipset they shipped with
06:59<amitz>I'll just stay away from buying i7 forever.
06:59-!-Kuboing [~Kuboing@] has joined #linode
06:59<amitz>the market here has funny ways to get a hold of defective but really cheap stuff.
06:59<dominikh>kronos003: they found that bug like a week before I was going to order a new computer with that chipset
07:00<Kuboing>what bug?
07:00<czr>I'm surprised they did a recall
07:00<kronos003>not sure if it affects laptops, but i cant seem to find i7+8gb+ssd+bluetooth+touchscreen+hdmi+esata+wifi+webcam+backlitkb for less than 2k
07:01<kronos003>a few weeks ago i could get all that with an extwnded battery for 1800USD
07:01<dominikh>Kuboing: the SATA2 ports of the P/H67 chipset degrade over time
07:01<dominikh>up to the point of failure
07:02<Kuboing>oh :/
07:02*kronos003 plans to sit on his hands patiently till that kind of deal rolls around again
07:02<Kuboing>luckily I don't have that mobo
07:02<dominikh>kronos003: Intel started shipping the broken chipsets again to vendors who requested them, e.g. for notebooks because they only use the working SATA3 ports
07:02<Kuboing>kronos003: laptops sucks
07:02<Kuboing>I always bring my entire set up
07:02<Kuboing>if I have to go somewhere
07:02<kronos003>Kuboing: you poor thing
07:02<Kuboing>and I have an full tower
07:02<Kuboing>made out of plutonium
07:03<kronos003>HEH - BOOM!
07:03<Kuboing>if I drop it, yes :P
07:03<czr>hmm. Kuboing that's pretty pita to move, innit?
07:03-!-AndreiC [AndreiC@] has joined #linode
07:03<czr>it's just metal, metal doesn't just blow up by itself
07:03<Kuboing>czr: that's what I got the forklift for
07:03*czr nods
07:03<kronos003>i used to have a masivley water cooled rig that they showed on HardOCP - but honestly my current laptop is 2x faster
07:05<kronos003>the watercooler on the thing didnt even get warm
07:05<kronos003>with garbage heatsink grease the cpu ran ambient+10F at load
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07:08<czr>kronos003, sick
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07:10<kronos003>only have to make sure all the stuff in the case can handle high pressure (70psi) but it would likely have cooled a whole 8ft rack worth of 1U quad cpu rigs without issue
07:12<amitz>tree killers!
07:12*amitz wanders off in jealously.
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07:14<praetorian>oh hm. i dont think i have a null modem cable.
07:14<czr>2, 3, 7
07:14<amitz>what I want is a powerful server with powerful radio signal such that you can't shield it off, and it's accessible in any part of the world. 100% connectivity ftw!
07:14<czr>or was it 1, 3, 7
07:15<praetorian>the pinout?
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07:15<czr>amitz, any radio signal is accessable anywhere in the world, given a good enough antenna ;-)
07:15<czr>praetorian, yeah.
07:15<amitz>czr: really? srs question.
07:15<czr>2, 3, and 5 praetorian
07:16<czr>2 and 3 are crossed. 5 is direct.
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07:16<czr>amitz, well, in theory yes
07:16<czr>amitz, you can't build perfect shielding for EMI really
07:17<czr>amitz, you can just attenuate the signal. which in theory means that it propagates everywhere, it will just get attentuated at different levels
07:17<Yaakov>czr: In theory, no.
07:17<Yaakov>czr: In practice, no.
07:17<amitz>czr: but if the signal is really weak, it's going to be more difficult to tell it apart from noise?
07:17<Yaakov>(Of course that follows)
07:18<Yaakov>Radio signals do not propogate everywhere and where they DO go, they diminish in power by the square of the distance. Eventually, they are below the noise floor.
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07:20<baKon>random question of the day... is it possible to create a bash alias for the sudo command itself? As in... :~ Chuck Norris says nano xyz.txt
07:20<amitz>Yaakov: so I need POWERFUL signal! or given the distance between farthest points in the world, it's not feasible somehow?
07:20<amitz>despite the loss of power is square of the distance.
07:21<kronos003>amitz: its cheaper and easier to put your server on the internet and access it via the nearest open wifi hotspot
07:21<Yaakov>amitz: Not only is tranmitting such a signal from a single point not possible you would need to receive as well which means every node would have to be able transmit back somehow.
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07:22<praetorian>czr: silly me was just trying to plug those usb to serial adapter, straight into the other pc
07:22<baKon>LOS would make it straightforward, but I guess we don't have that
07:22<czr>praetorian, you'd need a cross for that :-).
07:22<kronos003>course if you have ALL the money in the world you cpould lauch a network of satellites and usea sat transponde to connect
07:22<praetorian>i dont think i have one here
07:22<praetorian>cbf resoldering either
07:23<chesty>solder? cut and twist
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07:23<praetorian>as twitter would say
07:24<chesty>is solder right for a flexible cable?
07:24<kronos003>heatshrink is your friend if you want it to last any length of time
07:24<praetorian>kronos003: nod
07:24<praetorian>still you would solder than heat shrink over.
07:25<chesty>who doesn't love heat shrink?
07:27<chesty>is it the sky's the limit, or the skies the limit?
07:28<Yaakov>The sky is the limit.
07:28<Yaakov>So, The sky's the limit.
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07:29<amitz>kronos003: I fear internet kill switch
07:30<amitz>Yaakov: yeah, all nodes must have equally powerful transmitter. -_-, which will make it less portable
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07:34<Marius>What is the term when you install two different versions of a package and have different variables to run them?
07:34<AndreiC>If my Linode is in UK, where are my backups stored?
07:34<dominikh>AndreiC: in the same DC.
07:36<chesty>AndreiC: linode backups are for fast restore, they don't negate off site backups
07:36<kronos003>amitz: you could just take your server with you and solve all your problems at once
07:37<AndreiC>Another question: how does Linode differ from Rackspace Cloud with regards to billing for servers used only for a short amount of time?
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07:37<Marius>AndreiC, it's all prorated up until the 20th of the month
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07:37<AndreiC>At Rackspace Cloud I wouls only pay at the end of the month for all resources used
07:37<Marius>All billing is handled on the 1st
07:37<praetorian>Marius: paraleel
07:37<AndreiC>*I would
07:38<Marius>you pay for the coming month, and you pay for the plan you pick
07:38<praetorian>for your question about 4 minutes ago.
07:38<AndreiC>Ah, OK
07:38<kronos003>AndreiC: what is your application that you ned resources for short periods of time?
07:38<Marius>AndreiC, you pay ahead, but if you suddenly need more bandwidth or ram, you cna add this on the fly (granted ram requires a reboot)
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07:39<AndreiC>So credit card transactions will only happen on the 1st of each month
07:39<Marius>praetorian, oh thanks! <3
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07:39<Marius>AndreiC: that is correct, except if you buy extras on another date
07:39<kronos003>i think someone toldme that amazon E2 is goodand cheap for cpu intensive applications
07:39<AndreiC>Ah, ok; so it's like with Rackspace Cloud
07:40<mallory><amitz> did someone say "ENTERPRISE Cloud"?
07:40<chesty>AndreiC: you pay in advanced and can't have a negative balance, so if you add a node on the 15th, you will get charged on the 15th if you don't have any credits.
07:41<chesty>if you cancel on the 17th, you will get credited the remaining days, you only pay for 2 days.
07:41<amitz>kronos003: power supply problem -_-
07:43<Marius>praetorian, I don't think parallels is what I'm lookign for, it sounds like parallels is an application?
07:43<Marius>nvm, used that term and foudn somethign a bit more relevant
07:44<Marius>It's the build fomr source and use --prefix for make
07:44<praetorian>parallels is an application
07:44<praetorian>but not what i was referring to :)
07:44<Marius>then we're o nthe same page :D
07:45<chesty>praetorian: you mean serial
07:45<kronos003>amitz: auxilary power solution
07:45*praetorian slaps chesty
07:46<amitz>I like 24 hours connectivity
07:47<AndreiC>chesty: It's clearer now; that's what I undestood myself from what I read on Linode's website
07:47<kronos003>cell modem connectivity(as many providers as localities you travel) and dynamic dns services
07:48<AndreiC>Though it's a bit strange; hopefully they don't lose money by making too many unnecessary transactions
07:49<amitz>I meant unlimited power.
07:49<amitz>since you said I should carry the server anyway.
07:49<czr>unlimited power is nice
07:50<amitz>and save the world!
07:51<amitz>save the cheerleader, save the world.
07:52<Marius>amitz, I'd do the cheerleader.
07:52<amitz>czr: yes, I can always rely on you to follow up my joke!
07:52<amitz>Marius: after me.
07:52<czr>you forget that I have unlimited power
07:53<Marius>isn't it --prefix I use with make so I can have application1.2 alongside application1.1 ?
07:53<Marius>and I'd then run it with application1.2 parameters
07:53<mallory><amitz> czr: you mean ENTERPRISE-hive mindset.
07:54<praetorian>hm, found a cable off an old modem.. the male seems to be...
07:55-!-derekyang [] has joined #linode
07:56<czr>1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13
07:57<praetorian>seeks to sugges otherwise
07:57<czr>of course
07:57<czr>I was listing primes
07:57-!-sms9z [] has joined #linode
07:58<chesty>1 isn't a prime
07:58<chesty>my 6 months of uni didn't go to waste
07:59<czr>it's questionable whether it is or not.
07:59<mwalling>4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
07:59<praetorian>the pinout of this seems to be what i need
07:59<praetorian>except it has 22 as well
07:59<sms9z>gmail). what should i change in Linode's DNS manager?
08:00<sms9z> got cut off
08:00<sms9z>trying again
08:00<sms9z>this n00b needs help. need to configure to point to an external mail server
08:01<sms9z>what should i change in Linode's DNS manager?
08:01-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@] has joined #linode
08:01<czr>sms9z, or would you rather have all mail be handled by some server?
08:01<czr>because these are different things
08:02<sms9z>i want to send our newsletter via an external smtp service
08:02<sms9z>that requires me to configure
08:02<sms9z>my mail handling is currently with google
08:02<czr>why do you have such restriction?
08:03<czr>anyway, only sane way is doing a A record for which will point (at IP-level) to the real smtp server.
08:03<chesty>praetorian: 22 must be carrier detect
08:03<czr>it's inelegant and ugly, but pretty much the only thing you can do
08:03<czr>sms9z, unless you can actually change the outgoing smtp server name
08:03<czr>in your bulk mailer software
08:04<sms9z>oh ok. but i have an A record for * that points to my linode up address
08:04-!-axod [] has joined #linode
08:04<czr>* address? "up address"?
08:04<czr>can you be more specific?
08:04<sms9z>* points to my linode box
08:04<sms9z>and ill add another entry for to point to another IP adddress
08:05<sms9z>will that work fine or will * eat the request to
08:05<czr>I didn't know that linodes DNS manager supported wildcard matches.. does it?
08:05<sms9z>i believe it does since i think it was there by default initially
08:06<czr>I'd rather have a second opinion on this :-).
08:06<sms9z> sure you would
08:06<czr>wildcard matching sounds pretty .. interesting. especially as default
08:07<praetorian>chesty: ring indicator apparently
08:07<praetorian>chesty: but i see whta czr was saying before now.. makes more sense
08:07<praetorian>you flip the wires.. even tho the are currently in place
08:08<czr>praetorian, you only need 2,3 and 5 to make a null
08:08<czr>unless you have some software/hardware that really uses the other signals
08:08*praetorian no idea
08:08<czr>what are you trying to connect?
08:08<praetorian>i was just trying to test my usb ->serial device on my macbook
08:08<praetorian>before i take it to the datacentre tomorrow
08:09-!-burningdog [~roger@] has joined #linode
08:09<linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Deploy a Structured Wiki with TWiki on Debian 5 (Lenny) <> || Deploy Web Applications with the Sinatra Framework and the Apache Web Server on Debian 5 (Lenny) <>
08:10<chesty>if you don't connect the signals, you have to turn off hardware flow control
08:11<chesty>2,3 and 7 for 25 pin, 2,3 and 5 for 9 pin
08:11*praetorian has put it away for now
08:11<praetorian>i'll just test it with the cable at the datacentre tomorrow
08:12<chesty>good thinking, what could go wrong?
08:12<praetorian>my cable i have here is soldered on too.. so to change it, without an iron would be... damanging ;)
08:12<praetorian>chesty: worse comes to worse, i can just use the kvms provided by the dc
08:12-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
08:13<praetorian>but ...eww. communal keyboard
08:13<chesty>take some latex
08:13<amitz>communal keyboard is like communal underwear.
08:15-!-ang [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:18<czr>best used after 6 months?
08:19-!-Gika [] has quit [Quit: Gika]
08:20<amitz>rrr no but that's a wisdom I never learnt in school.
08:20<amitz>pparadis: you definitely didn't get it. What czr said is wise.
08:20*pparadis wants to know who czr has been sharing his underwear with...
08:21-!-superdug [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:21<amitz>oh wait, we're still talking about communal underwear...
08:21<@pparadis>now i want to know who amitz has been sharing his underwear with.
08:21<czr>I share my underwear only with the best
08:22<czr>so that their awesomeness rubs off
08:22<@pparadis>as in... only ENTERPRISE folk?
08:22<amitz>lucky I'm not the best.
08:22<@pparadis>i think you're being bashful.
08:22<czr>pparadis, no way
08:22<czr>I think he's more zshful.
08:22-!-streety [] has joined #linode
08:22<@pparadis>czr: does this sharing of underwear thing scale?
08:23<@pparadis>more importantly, does it blend?
08:23-!-stafamus [~stafamus@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:23<czr>it turns into a cloud after 12 months
08:23<czr>if that answers your question
08:23<@pparadis>that's web-scale.
08:23<@pparadis>outstanding work good sir.
08:23<amitz>pparadis: it scales so well that you will think as if it's only one underwear!
08:24<amitz>and blend.
08:24<Marius>well...that cna't be good?
08:24<@pparadis>Marius: that doesn't look promising.
08:24<czr>Marius, you're missing quite a bit of -dev packages
08:24<@pparadis>like *
08:25<czr>Marius, why are you building python?
08:25<amitz>don't tell us because you want python 3.0!
08:25<czr>or python 3000
08:25<@Perihelion>Marius doesn't know what he wants.
08:26<@Perihelion>Don't be silly.
08:26<czr>which reminds me of a sci-fi book where the main character wrote some legal droid scripts using python 3000
08:26<Marius>czr, you don't say xD
08:26<czr> .. much recommended.
08:26<Marius>czr, because I need 2.7 ;P
08:27<czr>Marius, why?
08:27<Marius>and I need it to run in parallel with the 2.5.2 that comes bundled with debian 5.0
08:27<Marius>because the app I want to run requires 2.7
08:27<amitz>umm, sorry I can't get myself to drop the topic but am I the only one who think that a longer used underwear is more comfie than a new one?
08:27<czr>Marius, debian still ships 2.5? fooooo
08:27<amitz>not communal, of course.
08:27<czr>reminds me why I stopped using debian..
08:27<@Perihelion>I though squeeze had a later version
08:27<Marius>czr 2.5.2 is latest in default aptitude xD
08:27<amitz>squeeze has 2.6
08:27<Marius>for lenny at least
08:27<czr>try to find a backport of 2.7
08:28<czr>otherwise you're screwed..
08:28<czr>and not in the nice way
08:28<amitz>praetorian: even washed.
08:28<Marius>blergh >_<
08:28<praetorian>so it's only 3 years behind.
08:28<czr>also, wtf requires 2.7?
08:29<czr>sorry for the french, but still..
08:29-!-Zeus [] has left #linode []
08:29<Marius>well it can run o n2.6
08:29<Marius>but that seems silly when I could get 2.7
08:29<Marius>My thought process is
08:29<czr>it only seems silly if you don't know what you're doing
08:29<Marius>"worjs on both 2.6 and 2.7, go wit hthe newer of the two as thye'll probably have better performacne"
08:29<czr>that's what I always say to my mom.
08:30<@Perihelion>Seems silly to just not upgrade to debian 6
08:30<praetorian>i upgraded to arch
08:30<Marius>Perihelion, will do; how do I do that on a linode
08:30<Marius>I've never done a distro upgrade on linode
08:30-!-ojacobson [~ojacobson@] has joined #linode
08:30<czr>switch apt.sources and then apt-get update and then run away
08:30<@Perihelion>Some Amanda Folson chick wrote a guide for the library
08:30<czr>and upgrade too..
08:31<Marius>She sounds lesbian
08:31<@Perihelion>She is
08:31<Marius>I KNEW IT!
08:31<Marius>oh nice
08:31<Marius>it is actualyl how to upgrade to squeeze xD
08:32<Marius>aww, now I have ot set a hostname =(
08:32<Marius>(I've been lazy, shush!)
08:32<@Perihelion>Yeah, you for sure wanna do that
08:32<@Perihelion>It'll rage at you
08:32<@Perihelion>And by rage, I mean do weird things
08:32<Marius>how silly, oh well
08:33<Marius>my hostname is now Perihelion
08:33<Marius>in dedication to the lovely miss Folson on this, the day of valentines.
08:33<Marius>awwww yeah!
08:33<Nivex>I await the jury's verdict on whether that is cute or creepy.
08:33<czr>it could be both
08:33<czr>depends on POV
08:34-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has joined #linode
08:34<amitz>and exposure to 4chan.
08:35<praetorian>wow. the first ep of ally mcbeal is on tv
08:35<czr>I don't think after 4chan anything would remain creepy
08:35<czr>just cheerfully different and joyous
08:36<@Perihelion>Nivex: * that Marius does is creepy
08:36<@Perihelion>I'm mostly immune to it now.
08:36<praetorian>i really never saw the first ep.
08:36-!-JamesChevalier [~Adium@] has joined #linode
08:36<amitz>praetorian: I think I saw it but I totally forget now.
08:36<@Perihelion>Marius: (Ads/content on there are usually NSFW)
08:37<amitz>praetorian: really fast faced.
08:37-!-JamesChevalier [~Adium@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:37<Marius>Current status: 254 updates [+254], 10216 new [+10216].
08:38<Marius>thank you squeeze.
08:38<czr>Marius, you have backups, right?
08:38<praetorian>you'll need em
08:39<@Perihelion>Oh mah lawd.
08:39<czr>like one popular ski-jumper/porn-star/bad singer said, it's 50/60.
08:39<praetorian>o_O the baby-sitters club is on tv in 1hr
08:40<Marius>backups ?
08:40<Marius>nah xD
08:40<praetorian>starred Rachel Leigh Cook
08:40<Marius>I trust Perihelion's guide!
08:40<@Perihelion>It doesn't cover every case
08:40<czr>blind trust <3.
08:40<@Perihelion>YMMV and all that
08:40<SirSquidness>praetorian: *squeel* omg, like, best show evah!
08:41<praetorian> ->
08:42-!-Zeus [] has joined #linode
08:42<Marius>She's pretty
08:42<Marius>woah she's OLD
08:42<praetorian>you may remeber her in `Antitrust
08:43*Perihelion prods Zeus
08:44<@Perihelion>Did you get my PM?
08:44<Marius>awesome, it's not letting me upgrade because of php-fastcgi
08:44<@Perihelion>Marius: Really? Mine was fine.
08:44<Marius>insserv: warning: script 'K20php-fastcgi' missing LSB tags and ▒
08:44<Marius> │ overrides, insserv: warning: script 'php-fastcgi' missing LSB tags and ▒
08:44<Zeus>no prodding the zeus
08:44<Marius> │ overrides, , package x11-common removed but not purged
08:45<@Perihelion>Marius: The guide covers that
08:45<amitz>Marius: just the perfect age for my consumption.
08:45<Marius>Perihelion, just noticed that bit xD
08:45<Marius>I did tget a package not purged though
08:46<Marius>why is there X11 installed o_O
08:46<czr>it's not X11
08:46<Marius>inst' that the gui thingamajig?
08:46<@Perihelion>The package that raged at me was mysql
08:46<@Perihelion>I backed up my data, purged it, then reinstalled it
08:46<czr>it's x11-common, which is just for xauth probably
08:46<@Perihelion>Apparently there are a few other ways to get around it
08:46<czr>or maybe not..
08:46-!-redgore [~redgore@] has joined #linode
08:46*Perihelion prods Zeus out of spite
08:46<Marius>well said czr, it was x11-common
08:47*Marius prods Perihelion
08:47<@Perihelion>no touchy.
08:47<Zeus>well comcast is done and the movers arent answering
08:47<@Perihelion>Oh right you're moving in today
08:47-!-JamesChevalier [~Adium@] has joined #linode
08:49<Marius>can we laugh now?
08:49<@Perihelion>What are we laughing about?
08:49<czr>communal underwear
08:52<Pryon>It's my turn to use the leg holes this week
08:53<mallory><amitz> ENTERPRISE underwear, many underwears that work as one scalable underwear shared with everybody else.
09:03<Marius>Perihelion, I blame you for this
09:03<Marius>error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
09:06-!-Wulfgar [] has joined #linode
09:06<Marius>now it's bitching about not being able to read Fortran code o_O
09:07<czr>why would you write your web application in FORTRAN?
09:07<mwalling>dont knock fortran
09:08<czr>mwalling, I didn't. just asked valid reasons to write a web app with it :-)
09:09-!-snobby [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
09:10-!-linville [] has joined #linode
09:11<praetorian>- end list of valid reasons -
09:11<megatron27>mwalling, what was that Python web server that you pointed me to that day
09:11<megatron27>I forgot to bookmark
09:11<Marius>czr, it's when installing numpy with python 2.6 o_O
09:11<czr>hmm. sounds like the dependencies for numpy are incorrect
09:12<czr>Marius, try installing gfortran
09:12<mwalling>megatron27: you'll have to be more specific
09:12<czr>then install numpy again
09:12<JshWright>megatron27: BaseHTTPServer?
09:12-!-wao_ [] has quit [Quit: eofuck]
09:13<JshWright>megatron27: CherryPy, Tornado
09:13<czr>web2py is pretty nice
09:13<JshWright><various wsgi servers>
09:13<czr>although it's somewhat higher level
09:13<megatron27>no, none of the above
09:14<megatron27>I was trying to get uwsgi working
09:14<megatron27>and you pointed me to it
09:14<JshWright>I like uwsgi
09:14<JshWright>mwalling like gunicorn, IIRC
09:14<megatron27>yeah me too
09:15<megatron27>yeah, that's the one!
09:15<megatron27>thanks JshWright
09:15<megatron27>JshWright, did you read about how there's this guy on Wikipedia who wants to delete a lot of articles
09:16<megatron27>JshWright, because their notability is arguable
09:16<JshWright>megatron27: yes...?
09:17<JshWright>the issue is a little more complex than that, but that's the base of it
09:17<megatron27>ROFL @
09:17<megatron27>the first result is a job ad on craigslist!
09:17<mwalling>but duckduckgo cares about your privacy!
09:18<mwalling>you should ignore the poor quality of the results
09:18<megatron27>I'm experimenting with DDG as my primary search engine.
09:18<megatron27>what I miss right now are the real time results...
09:24<megatron27>I thought I had x-chat configured to log everything
09:25<megatron27>yeah, gunicorn has at least one advantage over uwsgi, you don't have to compile nginx
09:25<megatron27>so one less component to have to update manually
09:25-!-trond [] has joined #linode
09:28<trond>I'm thinking about switching from slicehost to linode. I would get a small linode at first while migrating, and then when everything works resize to something bigger. How long does the resize take?
09:29<Kuboing>i think
09:30<hobot>yeah its pretty dang quick iirc
09:31<trond>ok, thanks
09:32<mwalling>its not instant, your disks get copied to new hardware (in the same DC, so its quick, but not presto changeo quick)
09:33-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:35-!-tiny [] has joined #linode
09:36-!-superdug [] has joined #linode
09:37<Yaakov>trond: Why start small?
09:37-!-linville [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
09:37<straterra>If you want to destroy my sweater..Just pull a thread as I walk away
09:37-!-zivester [] has joined #linode
09:38<megatron27>I can't listen to Weezer anymore
09:38<megatron27>it seems cheesy these days
09:38<megatron27>I'm old
09:38<Marius>want me to do a Teenage Dirtbag for you?
09:38<mwalling>my first exposure to weezer was the windows 95 cd
09:38<straterra>megatron27: Watch me unravel...I'll soon be naked.
09:38<Yaakov>Cheezy Wheezer
09:39<straterra>Lying on the floor..lying on the floor..I've come undone!
09:39<megatron27>god damn you half japanese girls!
09:39<megatron27>do it to me everytime
09:39<straterra>El Scorcho ftw
09:39<megatron27>. o O ( <3 )
09:40<straterra>itunes is getting uninstalled
09:40<Yaakov>megatron27: No spaces in the leader.
09:40<Yaakov>.oO( ... )
09:41<Yaakov>megatron27: Especially if the message is small. You could get away with that on a full sentence.
09:42-!-derekyang [] has quit [Quit: derekyang]
09:43<megatron27>yeah, sorry for taking up more of your screen real estate than necessary
09:43<Yaakov>No, no, it's the aesthetics.
09:43<Yaakov>The typographical beauty.
09:43<Yaakov>Nothing to do with efficiency.
09:44<trond>Yaakov: cheaper
09:44<Yaakov>trond: How long do you expect your experimentation to persist?
09:44<trond>2-3 weeks
09:45<straterra>Is he text-curious or something?
09:45<Yaakov>straterra: You lost track of the thread, or never had it.
09:45<straterra>Yaakov: Possibly never had it
09:45<straterra>I haven't seen trond say anything except for "cheaper" :x
09:46<Yaakov>straterra: The timescale of IRC conversations is often greater than one screen.
09:46<megatron27>he's a Slicehost refugee who wants to start small on Linode
09:46<straterra>Of course
09:46<megatron27>because it's cheaper
09:46<mwalling>he can probably get away with smaller linodes anyway
09:46<straterra>refugee, eh
09:46<Yaakov>trond: Well, I suppose that's reasonable if you expect to take that long.
09:47<Yaakov>I use a Linode 180 and I am the outsourced provider of all of Facebook and Google. It's all about tuning.
09:47<trond>Yaakov: it's a boatload of sites in both php and django with a zillion dependencies, so i need the time
09:48<Yaakov>trond: Sounds nightmarish.
09:48<trond>Yaakov: it is :D
09:48-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
09:49<Yaakov>trond: I would tend to want separate 'nodes for each configuration, viz. Django, PHP, etc.
09:49<Yaakov>trond: It would seem far easier to manage.
09:50<Yaakov>trond: And, possibly, a 'node for MySQL.
09:51<trond>Yaakov: yes, already have split out MySQL. the plan is to slowly migrate all the PHP to django as well
09:52<Yaakov>Well, I believe there are several capable folks here using Django so you might find tuning help.
09:52-!-linville [] has joined #linode
09:52*mwalling looks around
09:54<mwalling>recomendations for a mysql client for win32 that has tab completion for table and column names and a data grid viewer? i'm sick of using mysql.exe inside a cmd.exe window
09:55-!-tiny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:55<JshWright>mwalling uses Django, ask him
09:56-!-Spitfire [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:57<@pparadis>mwalling: i don't know if this is what you're after, but it's pretty comprehensive -->
09:57<Marius>time ot go home?
09:57<Marius>yes, in a moment.
09:57<Ovron>the workbench crashes for me constantly :< *shakes fist*
09:57<@pparadis>works okay for me, what platform are you on?
09:58-!-Spitfire [] has joined #linode
09:58<Ovron>win7 64bit
09:58<mwalling>oh great
09:58<mwalling>thats what i just started using :)
09:58<@pparadis>hah :)
09:59<Ovron>it is really nice otherwise... except for when it crashes. When it does that, it also refuses to load the configuration it crashed with :<
09:59<Ovron>and no error report or anything, it just closes down \o/
09:59<@pparadis>Ovron: not sure about the issues there; i'm using it from mac os x, and i haven't had any glitches.
09:59<@pparadis>maybe it's special happy issues for win64
09:59<Ovron>perhaps - or perhaps something even more local to my computer *shruf*
10:00<straterra>I wonder how many addresses a linux kernel can take before it dies
10:01<Ovron>is there anything similar to the mysql workbench for postresql? Would be sweet
10:01<hobot>is anyone in here even slightly familiar with django? I am running through the tutorials and I cant get to buckle under the lash, and #django is ignoring me, which either means I am asking the wrong question or it is really obvious and I am not getting it
10:01<@pparadis>Ovron: yes!
10:01<Ovron>pparadis: as in it would be sweet, or as in it exists? ;o
10:02<Ovron>oh :O thanks!
10:02<@pparadis>it's great
10:02<JshWright>hobot: there are a number of django users around... sup?
10:02-!-Kenny [] has joined #linode
10:03<Marius>Going home NAO
10:03<Kenny>Then I'll be all alone in here :'(
10:04<hobot>well I am doing the real basics like trying to get the admin interface to active and am getting name error name 'uploading' is not defined, and I have defined it in my installed apps and have created an index in in the app
10:04<Ovron>oh Kenny is here; later guys!
10:04*Ovron giggles
10:04<hobot>I think I am just going to pastebin the lot of it
10:04<@pparadis>Kenny: can you feel the love tonight?
10:05<JshWright>hobot: pastebin your
10:05<Kenny>pparadis: It is wheeere we aaare
10:06-!-Spitfire [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:08-!-burningdog [~roger@] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish!]
10:10<hobot>ok this is a little cluttered, but I think the main problem is I dont know how to reference the uploading "app" so the proper view is referenced, a lot of times in django it seems like it talks about things like thisproject.settings when it means in the project dir, and I am confused
10:10<hobot>so it is probably a syntax thing
10:10<trond>hobot: paste as well
10:10<JshWright>yeah, that's the missing link, likely
10:10<hobot>oh did I not get that one
10:11<hobot>that was
10:12<trond>not uploading.index
10:12<JshWright>but it should be an include()
10:12<trond>oh that too
10:12<JshWright>include() is for including the of a project
10:12<hobot>oh interesting
10:12<hobot>should it just point to it
10:13<hobot>ok that makes sense
10:13<JshWright>(r'^ogre/', 'uploading.views.index'),
10:13<JshWright>alternatively (and perhaps more appropriately), you could use the in 'uploading'
10:14-!-Dreamer3 [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
10:14<hobot>you did it, I got an error about httpresponse, which means the code is doing it
10:14<hobot>so I define my own sub in the uploading app basically?
10:14<hobot>ok that makes sense too, thanks JshWright
10:14<hobot>I will do that
10:15<hobot>thank you so much, that syntax was deviling me for like an hour
10:15<JshWright>hobot: something like this:
10:15<hobot>yeah I read it
10:16<golb>hello, anyone is using Amazon Simple Email Service with linode?
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10:16<hobot>I just missed the part about includes
10:16<hobot>since it was never really pointed out
10:16<JshWright>if you use 'include()' is strips off the matched part of the url, and passes the rest into the include()ed
10:16<hobot>so I was doing all that stuff in the includes
10:16<trond>hobot: i see
10:17<hobot>the answer of course is to read even more carefully
10:17<trond>hobot: yes, it almost always is. I spent close to an hour today debugging the WRONG url :D
10:17<JshWright>so '/ogre/' would be passed to uploading.urls as '', while '/ogre/foo/' would be passed as 'foo/'
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10:18<hobot>oh that is actually a good way of doing it JshWright
10:19<JshWright>hobot: yep, makes things much more portable
10:19<hobot>so it is like, dont pass the cruft just the delicious information I need to my app
10:22<pharaun> hobot oh doing python now?
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10:23<pharaun>oh gist <3 i need to use this more often for code stuff
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10:27<hobot>yeah pharaun I did some wsgi stuff a long time ago and now my friend is making some game and he wants me to write a simple file upload script in python and then I thought it would make sense as a django plugin or app or whatever the nomenclature is
10:27<hobot>also I like gist a lot and since it is tied to my github account, it makes me happy
10:28<pharaun>aha, heh i'm used to just pb things but yeah gist looks nice, needs to use it more often
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10:28<pharaun>ah, neat, hows wsgi?
10:28<hobot>cooler than I thought
10:29<hobot>I did that as a part of drumbeat but they need more middle of the road people to help out
10:29<hobot>too many really busy teachers and not many people to mentor
10:29<JshWright>well, wsgi in and of itself it's all that interesting, it's just a spec for web servers interfacing with python applications
10:29<pharaun>ah, wsgi? yeah i need to take a look at it, probably will end up just doing a hybrid python + ruby app for my website, i really like rake and some stuff in ruby, but i'm liking python lots
10:30<hobot>yeah I just didnt know about it and I really liked how I could plug in different stuff so simply, like an auth service
10:30<hobot>it was cool to me being a newbie basically
10:30<JshWright>hobot: I think you're confusing WSGI and Django
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10:31<hobot>this is what I was referring to
10:32<hobot>I might have been using the wrong terminology but basically an authentication service just checks and modifies the request before it gets to say your django app
10:32<hobot>anyway you know all that
10:33<JshWright>yeah, I thought you were referring to something like Django's contrib.auth
10:33<hobot>I honestly dont know about that yet but I will probably need to hehe
10:33<pharaun>oh? so its like "layering" where you have middleware 1, passing it to middleware 2, then finally your wsgi app ?
10:33<JshWright>well, wsgi is just a spec
10:33<hobot>yeah well these are all wsgi apps sort of
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10:34<hobot>you just have an app which gets the request and returns a response
10:34-!-AndreiC [AndreiC@] has quit []
10:34<hobot>aka like all webservers do
10:34-!-AndreiC [AndreiC@] has joined #linode
10:34<JshWright>each component needs to speak the same language, and can implement either the request, or response side of the spec (middleware components implement both sides)
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10:35<pharaun>oh so that's under the wsgi domain, you implement request & response then you can string em up?
10:35<JshWright>PEP333 is a good place to start
10:36<pharaun>ah k, taking a quick look
10:36<JshWright>(or PEP3333 if you care about Python 3.x)
10:36<pharaun>heh i haven't used python3 yet, got it on my system
10:37<hobot>please tell me you googled that JshWright
10:37<JshWright>hobot: googled what, the PEP numbers?
10:37<dominikh>they're pretty easy to remember :Ö
10:37<JshWright>nah, I refer to them often enough that they're stuck in there
10:37<hobot>thats a lot of python
10:37<pharaun>good ol "usage based" memory :>
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10:38<Kenny>It's not like it's a complicated number sequence... :P
10:39<hobot>no but how many times do you read a specific oeo
10:39<hobot>pep* whew
10:39-!-saikat [] has quit [Quit: saikat]
10:39<JshWright>Things like PEP333 I refer to fairly often
10:39<pharaun>hahahahaha the hobot 3 step program to spell correction \o/ :)
10:40<hobot>you got me
10:40<pharaun>isn't wsgi kind of a superset of fastcgi ?
10:40<hobot>be glad it wasnt a 12 step program
10:40<czr>first step would still be "admit you have a problem"
10:40<TheFirst>pharaun: same idea, much simpler imlpementation, no?
10:41<hobot>I think I am at that step
10:41<TheFirst>or spec at least
10:41*czr is too
10:41<JshWright>pharaun: superset? no... it defines how webservers using CGI should interact with Python
10:41<Kenny>I thought first step was denial?
10:41<pharaun>TheFirst: ah, well i haven't read through it yet, just got pointed to pep333 reading it now
10:42<czr>Kenny, that's the last step. hi btw
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10:42<pharaun>JshWright: yes but isn't cgi/fastcgi a spec on how web-server talks to the cgi stuff ?
10:42<TheFirst>pharaun: from what i remember the spec for wsgi was like 2 pages, the fastcgi spec...much longer
10:42<Kenny>czr: Oh, so hobot is using the inverse trauma circle? :P
10:42<czr>Kenny, it's a cycle, so no matter where you start, you'll always end back there
10:43<Kenny>It's a Win-Win situation :D
10:43<czr>I wish I could just short the battery to get the testing over with
10:43*czr is waiting for "controlled" battery discharge to complete..
10:43<pharaun>czr: embedding testing?
10:43<pharaun>ah, those are fun ;p
10:43<czr>testing my ULTIMATE battery charging algorithm
10:44<czr>except that this is the first test, so I doubt it is yet ultimate.
10:44<Kenny>czr: Controlled battery discarche, being a 10Ω resistor over the battery contacts?
10:44<TheFirst>czr: ultimately bad perhaps?
10:44<pharaun>oh the whole battery charging curves, and all of that bull?
10:44<czr>Kenny, two 47Ohm in parallel infact
10:44<czr>pharaun, yeah
10:44<czr>TheFirst, I hope not
10:45<czr>Kenny, don't have a lot of extra 10W R:s lying around..
10:45<Ovron>I bet it will be awesome! o/
10:45<Kenny>czr: Then it's not FAST discharge. ;)
10:45<TheFirst>funny thing about hope ... it just leads to disappointment
10:45<czr>Kenny, I know. I did say controlled.
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10:45<czr>TheFirst, similar to the gain of being an eternal pessimist? that you get positively suprised at least sometimes?
10:45<pharaun>indeed, this is why i refrain from hope, hence i'm almost never disappointed \o/
10:45<Kenny>czr: Psh, it IS controlled, Ohms law maintains control of the currents, duh!
10:46-!-bar [~bar@] has joined #linode
10:46<czr>Kenny, ah. we use different semantics :-). for me, controlled means "trying to not to blow stuff up if it contains acid".
10:46<TheFirst>czr: yeah ... even the eternal pessimist is surprised to find things CAN and will get much worse than expected :P
10:46<TheFirst>czr: where's the fun in that?
10:46<czr>I didn't say there was any..
10:47<czr>it's actually quite boring..
10:47<Kenny>czr: How would you then work a "controlled acid explosion"? :D
10:47<czr>the only thing I can do is to burn my fingers by periodically touching the resistors.
10:47<pharaun>czr: oh that reminds me of when i was kid i would attach bunch of 9v cells together XD
10:47<Kenny>(When taking your definition of "controlled" into consideration.)
10:47<czr>Kenny, well, I wouldn't probably try to.. not danish you see :-)
10:48<czr>although I guess outdoors and distance would play quite a bit into it..
10:48<pharaun>czr: see, Kenny has it down to a science you know
10:48-!-cgsputnik [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
10:48<Kenny>pharaun: ... Not 2 cells shorted to each other?
10:48<hobot>control means you know you are not going to blow up anything you dont want to blow up
10:48<Kenny>That's just a bad idea.
10:48<czr>well, yes. but it's dark outside and I don't have a camera and blowing stuff up without filiming it.. not worth it..
10:48<pharaun>Kenny: never said i was a smart kid when i was a kid :> needless the battery did get *very* hot :p
10:48-!-Spitfire [] has joined #linode
10:49<pharaun>anyone here familiar with JMS ?
10:49<czr>heh. reminds me of an idiot in elecs labs. we had a 0-48VDC PSUs in our lab tables. he decided to experiment what would 48VDC feel like on the tip of his tongue (seeing as 9V and 12V wasn't so bad after all)..
10:49<Kenny>dominikh: THAT I am familiar with.
10:49<pharaun>yeah, java something, a friend is having trouble getting his jms stuff to run on the network remotely
10:49<czr>ah. isn't that some kind of crappy monitoring system for java apps?
10:50<Kenny>czr: 18v doesn't hurt... Didn't try 48. :P
10:50<czr>like using zillions of cycles to tell that you have only one client attached?
10:50<pharaun>9v isn't bad, but over that, i don't want to try
10:50<czr>well, needless to say, it was fun (for us)
10:50<Kenny>18v is kinda as far as I will go.
10:50<czr>he went quite quickly to the school nurse after that
10:50<czr>also, he didn't say much for the rest of the day
10:50<pharaun>czr: hah, i honestly don't know, i think its a messaging system something, but he was having trouble getting it to run and was wondering if anyone here knew how to operate jms
10:50<Kenny>(Power supplies for my model railroad supplies 18v 50Hz AC :P)
10:50<pharaun>czr: XD ouch
10:51<pharaun>well yeah ^^^
10:51<czr>pharaun, ah. I once encountered some monitoring framework too. confusing..
10:51<pharaun>to be frank a ton of the j2ee stuff is kind of confusing
10:51<czr>no shit :-).
10:51<czr>that's why we have amitz
10:51<czr>amitz can explain the intricacies behind each 3/4 letter TLA/FLA.
10:51<linbot>fully pledged ENTERPRISE java coder!
10:51<czr>whom did you pledge for?
10:52<linbot>an autodidact ENTERPRISE java coder
10:52<TheFirst>pharaun: kind of? that's really the phrase you're going with? just "kind of?!
10:52<Ovron>I don't know czr, I think amitz edited it. I must have done it in my sleep
10:52<TheFirst>gah i can't even correct my typos correctly!
10:52<pharaun>TheFirst: well to be frank, i *go* out of my way to avoid having to work with some of the more complicated crap in WebSphere at work hence :)
10:52-!-advion [] has joined #linode
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10:52<Ovron>are they web-scale?
10:52<pharaun>Ovron: our apps? i think so
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10:53<Ovron>are they in the cloud?
10:53*czr watches the numbers drop
10:53<pharaun>jms exception ->
10:53<czr>it's sad that our system doesn't use any more power..
10:53<pharaun>I *LOVE* java exceptions *sigh*
10:53<Ovron>czr: how so?
10:53<pharaun>once or twice i was debugging some system at work and i ended up with a 2,000 line exception trace
10:53<czr>pharaun, ORBUtilSystemException.giopMagicError, that old thing..
10:54<czr>wrong kind of magic, I think
10:54<Ovron>pharaun: just bend over and take it! JAVA delivers!
10:54<czr>Ovron, well, if it would use more power, the battery would drain faster :-)
10:54<Ovron>czr: hehe
10:54<czr>pharaun, besides, didn't you know that exceptions under 100 lines are for pussies?
10:54<pharaun>czr: heh its cobra *sigh*
10:54<Kenny>czr: You could also use a smaller battery. :)
10:54-!-linville [] has joined #linode
10:54<czr>pharaun, yes. I thought that was evident
10:54<czr>Kenny, that's the smallest one we have! :-)
10:55<pharaun>czr: heh i haven't worked with cobra, all i know is that cobra was a confusing pos
10:55<czr>1.2Ah, it's tiny.
10:55<Ovron>does the device do anything fun besides discharging a battery?
10:55<Kenny>czr: Want to borrow my 12mAh 3.7v cell?
10:55<czr>Kenny, well, it needs to be lead/acid (~12V)
10:55<Kenny>... Ew.
10:55<czr>Ovron, of course. it runs web servers and all kinds of shit.
10:55<czr>not any java though..
10:55<Kenny>See, lead acid can be discharged by shorting the poles :D
10:55<czr>maybe that's the solution
10:55<Ovron>does it have cloud-implementation ready?
10:56<Kenny>Lead acid will still deliver 12v after a total nuclear apocalypse.
10:56<czr>it uses IPv5 to implement cloud-awareness and skynet protocols
10:56<dominikh>so if I need power for my ghetto blaster after a nuclear apocalypse I know where to go...
10:57<pharaun>oh on the topic of lead-acid can't you "wield" stuff to your car battery terminal if you drop a metal bar cross it?
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10:57<czr>normally we use 7-10 Ah batteries
10:57-!-advion [] has joined #linode
10:57<czr>but I have a tiny one just for testing stuff..
10:57<Kenny>czr: You're only discharcing with 51mAh
10:57<Kenny>(based on the resistors)
10:57<Kenny>(approx half a watt)
10:57<czr>yeah, but as I said, I don't have extra resistors lying around
10:58-!-Bartzy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:58<czr>plus we actually have our system parallel with the resistors too
10:58<Kenny>or 0.04C... :P
10:58<Kenny>pharaun: Wield? That really depends on the size of the battery
10:59<Kenny>czr: 0.04 capacities of the battery
10:59<Kenny>1C means it's discharging the full capacity in 1 hour
10:59<czr>well, that's kind of useless to us, so never encountered it
10:59<Kenny>0.04 means it's discarging it's full capacity in around 23 hours, I think.
10:59<czr>it's going faster than 0.04C though
11:00<pharaun>Kenny: car battery :p
11:00<Kenny>pharaun: There's many different sizes and types :P
11:00<Kenny>pharaun: But generally, no
11:00<czr>anyhow, I think I'll just leave the battery to discharge and head home
11:00<pharaun>Kenny: *amercian* the only kind ;)
11:00-!-Craighton [] has joined #linode
11:00<Kenny>pharaun: American car manufacturers tend to change battery from car to car
11:01<Kenny>sometimes even specially design them
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11:01<pharaun>sometime, for the modern car yes, pisses me off, but i like my older car, they use the standard battery, the two metal pole on top that you bolt to
11:01<pharaun>*clamp on i guess not bolt but yeah
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11:02<Kenny>Yeah, you bolt onto the clamp, which then clamps onto the pole. :P
11:02<Kenny>But there's many variations, like inverted polarity, size, shape, ...
11:02<czr>so, until tomorrow! ->
11:03<Kenny>czr: I will laugh if it's still running tomorrow, and you forgot to disconnect the power supply :P
11:03<pharaun>Kenny: not really, then again most of the stuff that my family operated were older generation stuff and they all more or less used interchangable batteries
11:03<Kenny>pharaun: Well, you have a few that certain types of equipment uses a lot, but there's no generic "car battery"
11:04<pharaun>Kenny: oh i know but just most of the stuff i use *use* that 24v generic car battery
11:04<Kenny>Whenever I need to get a battery, I need to know physical shape, type of clamps, polarity (negative left or right side), and of course what current and peak current it can take
11:04<pharaun>Kenny: yeah i've seen all of that on labels for batteries
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11:05<Kenny>24v generic car battery? That would be generic for trucks and stuff, but not very generic for a car :P
11:06<Kenny>I have seen cars with 6v, and 12v, but I have only seen 24v in our forklift (through 2 12v batteries in series), and trucks (huuuge batteries that you need to be 2 men to left, and even then they use 2 or 3)
11:06<amitz>Kenny: I buy machines that can tolerate sucky power source ;-)
11:06<pharaun>Kenny: i'm from a farm :)
11:06<pharaun>Kenny: the tractors are 48v iirc but they have multiple batteries chained together in a power pack under the steps
11:07<Kenny>amitz: I'm from europe, so I don't know what a sucky power source is. ;)
11:07<mallory><amitz> Ovron did someone forget to pair the word "ENTERPRISE" with java?
11:07<Kenny>pharaun: Ironic, you use lower voltage for the mains, and higher voltage for your vehicles.
11:07<Kenny>tractors over here would be 12 or 24v
11:08<pharaun>Kenny: i suppose, i don't know bout newer car, never owned or really worked on em so things probably has changed since i just know that the standard for the farm is mostly 24v maybe 12v
11:08<pharaun>but you do often see things chained together to pump/boost the power
11:08*pharaun fails, i mean boost the voltage, not power
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11:09<amitz>why do you want to boost the voltage?
11:10<Kenny>amitz: To increase it?
11:10<Kenny>If you want 24v, but 12v batteries are cheaper, chaining them is a very common way to do things
11:10<pharaun>amitz: the tractors wants 48v
11:10<pharaun>amitz: so they have a little bank where you stack multiple battery in under the tractor and chain them together
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11:11<Kenny>Yeah, then they'd use 8 6v packs :D
11:11<Kenny>'cause 48v packs just aren't very fun.
11:11<amitz>ah, didn't think of that :-p
11:11<pharaun>Kenny: never seen a 48v pack
11:12<Kenny>I've seen some badass SLA packs...
11:12<Kenny>(SLA= Sealed Lead Acid)
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11:14<amitz>is that the so called dry battery? is it worth the price?
11:15-!-downline [] has joined #linode
11:15<Kenny>amitz: No, sealed lead acid is still a wet cell, it's just not user servicable
11:16<Kenny>it's sealed, while non-sealed lead acid packs allow you to change the acid
11:16<Kenny>(or refill)
11:17<megatron27>amitz, hi
11:17<Kenny>There's also "gel cells", which can't leak, but they aren't technically dry cell
11:17<pharaun>oh *THOSE* i grew up with the lead-acid where you would pop the top off and then refill it with water, i think most newer stuff are now sealed so you can't access them
11:17<Kenny>pharaun: Yeah, same here. Nowadays they're sealed, therefore SEALED Lead Acid. ;)
11:17<amitz>megatron27: heya, I was about to comment about siti nurhaliza but I thought it may be improper :-p
11:18<megatron27>yeah, don't be improper
11:18<amitz>yeah :-p
11:19<amitz>oh... all my cars still used non sealed ones.
11:20<straterra>Do any of you use VS for C++/Qt?
11:20-!-downline [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
11:20<pharaun>not me, last time i used VS was roughly the 05/08 edition for c# so i wouldn't know, is there a problem?
11:21<amitz>do microsoft people hang out in irc?
11:21<straterra>The linker is pissing me off
11:21<pharaun>there's some window users here so
11:21<pharaun>straterra: what kind of error?
11:21<megatron27>ROFL -
11:21<straterra>And yes..I added the necessary lines to the linker config
11:22<pharaun>honestly probably can't help, not a windows guy but lemme look
11:22<amitz>pharaun: yeah but that was a serious question, do some microsoft people, who use microsoft products exclusively, hang out in irc?
11:22<pharaun>amitz: what do you mean by "microsoft people"
11:22<amitz>pharaun: people who use microsoft products exclusively? Many in real life.
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11:23<megatron27>I might need to get a Windows computer so that I can do some screencasting
11:23<pharaun>amitz: ah, i thought you mean as in people who works *at* microsoft
11:23<pharaun>straterra: qt4?
11:23-!-Spitfire [] has joined #linode
11:24<amitz>megatron27: well, you can always virtualized a win xp ;-). Buy an old license somewhere in internet.
11:24<pharaun>straterra: already did all of the magic? aka telling it where the headers, the library, etc all of that?
11:24-!-sms9z [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
11:24<pharaun>can't help more than that :\ haven't dealt with qt linking issues on windows
11:25<pharaun>megatron27: go setup vmware, vbox, etc... and put windows xp in it, which is what i personally do, it works alright as long as it does not need serious 3daccel
11:25<megatron27>you can get second hand XP licenses?
11:26-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
11:26<pharaun>on license, msdnaa access ?
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11:27<megatron27>msdn? yeah, you can get it from there, true true
11:27<megatron27>might sign up for Bizspark just for that :D
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11:28<Gika>is it legal to use an OEM windows license (the one which came with my notebook) on a virtualbox machine on the same computer?
11:28<amitz>megatron27: funny, about quora
11:28<straterra>Gika: No
11:28<Gika>and i suppose i can't resell it either
11:29<megatron27>but it's funny how they targeted someone with the same first and last name
11:29<Kenny>Gika: Windows only brings you pain. Even if you decide not to use it. :<
11:29<Gika>i've sent a letter to toshiba and they say they won't refund me either
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11:30<straterra>Likely because you already accepted the terms of the license
11:30<straterra>You wouldn't get much $30 USB
11:30<straterra>err, USD
11:30<megatron27>I didn't even put my last name on Quora
11:30<Kenny>30 United States Bulls. I suppose they could sell for SOME value.
11:30<megatron27>because I have a two word first name
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11:31<pharaun>wait a minute, its not legal to use a OEM license on the desktop for a windows vm? 0_o but its running on the same freaking hw
11:31<Gika>straterra: nope, never accepted the terms
11:31<axod>is anyone good with ssh tunnels? I'm having a really odd error...
11:31<Kenny>pharaun: Technically, it isn't. It's running on virtualized hw. :P
11:31<amitz>megatron27: but you can always work it around with "bin" if necessary anyway? I'm curious how's your id?
11:31<Kenny>axod: Sure, what is it?
11:31<InitHello>windows licenses are per machine, not per human
11:31-!-arsasson [] has joined #linode
11:31<Kuboing>InitHello: wrong
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11:32<Kuboing>windows licenses are per cpu
11:32<straterra>Gika: Did you boot it up and get past the initial Windows set up screen?
11:32<Kenny>Kuboing: Originally they were
11:32<Kenny>Kuboing: Not any more. :P
11:32<axod>Kenny: the tunnel stops working... it'll accept a connection, but no data is relayed. When I check with netstat on the remote side, the data is waiting in the tcp buffer :/
11:32<straterra>Kuboing: Depends entirely on the license typwe
11:32<InitHello>Kuboing: so I need 4 licenses if I get a quad-core
11:32<straterra>A quad core is still 1 cpu
11:32<Kuboing>Kenny: really? since when?
11:32<straterra>Most home licenses are 1-2 socket
11:32<amitz>pharaun: it's still legal for windows xp, but not for the next windows version.
11:32<Kenny>axod: What connection do you need established?
11:32<Gika>straterra: no. i formatted it and put on debian without even starting it as windows
11:32<SignalMapr>just got a techcrunch article)... or wait it out with a bit of sslownesss?
11:32-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
11:33<SignalMapr>whoops... lost some of my message
11:33<straterra>For OEM licenses, the license dies with the hardware. You cannot legally transfer it.
11:33<Kenny>Kuboing: Since they stopped? No clue when, but I remember a 6 year old laptop saying "Windows XP 1 CPU license"
11:33<Kenny>they don't quite say that anymore. :P
11:33<Gika>straterra: but when i bought the computer, on the box there was this small seal which said something like "IF YOU OPEN THIS BOX YOU AGREE TO NEVER GET A REFUND FOR WINDOWS"
11:33<SignalMapr>anyone got advice on how long it takes to upgrade a plan?
11:33<Kuboing>because it's implied these days?
11:33<Gika>despite what the EULA said
11:33<pharaun>straterra: including a "reinstall" IE you wipe windows off, then you reinstall your windows from the oem disk is that still not legal?
11:33<straterra>Gika: Yeah..prolly
11:33<straterra>pharaun: That's legal
11:33<Kuboing>Gika: what box? the one with the installation cd?
11:33<Kenny>Kuboing: I'd like to hear the limit of your average Windows 7 Ultimate disc. :)
11:33<JshWright>SignalMapr: as much time as it takes to copy your disk images from one host to another
11:33<straterra>As long as its the same computer
11:33<InitHello>straterra: which I think is silly - the license is paid for, so ...
11:33<amitz>pharaun: oh, that's assuming non-OEM. What I meant is, you can use all version of winxp to virtualized, but not for further version of windows.
11:34<Gika>Kuboing: there wasn't even a CD. the cardboard box in which the computer came
11:34<straterra>InitHello: Not silly. If you don't want those terms, you get a retail license
11:34<Kenny>straterra: Yes, it's true. The text was just on the inside of the label...
11:34<pharaun>straterra: oh good to know just wanted to make sure
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11:34<SignalMapr> ok thanks JshWright
11:34<straterra>A retail license gives you the ability to transfer
11:34<JshWright>SignalMapr: are you fully tweaked, or is there some room for improvement on your current setup?
11:34<InitHello>straterra: or you get OEM and break the terms. People have done that, the bastards.
11:34<Kuboing>Gika: hmm.... that's kind of difficult to open up without breaking the seal
11:34<Kenny>axod: If you tell us what connection you need established, and what command you have used, we can tell you if you did something wrong there :P
11:34<straterra>InitHello: right
11:34<pharaun>amitz: oh right, the non-oem, yeah i'm used to regular license, never thought about the oem issues
11:34<Gika>well i could've BURNED it
11:35<InitHello>oooooh, BURN
11:35<pharaun>straterra: transfer, as in transfer between machines/real->vm, etc ?
11:35<amitz>pharaun: that is, you need special version of windows (ultimate or something) to be able to legally virtualized it.
11:35<pharaun>amitz: i never heard anything bout that in regards of newer version of windows, i'm still using xp in my vm
11:35<Ovron>EULA for windows 7 home premium; it allows you to run it in one VM on the same host
11:36<pharaun>Ovron: the rental license, not oem i'm assuming ?
11:36<Kenny>Misuse of Internet-based Services. You may not use these services in any way that could harm them or impair anyone else’s use of them.
11:36<Ovron>"d. Use with Virtualization Technologies. Instead of using the software directly on the licensed computer, you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed computer."
11:36<amitz>pharaun: any xp can be legally virtualized, well, not really legally, more like it's not mentioned :-p.
11:36<Ovron>pharaun: there is no distinction on this point
11:36<Kenny>Apparently I'm not allowed to install it on clients computers, it could harm or impair their use of the computer. :<
11:36<amitz>Ovron: ooh? nice
11:36<pharaun>Ovron: oh really? interesting
11:36<amitz>Ovron: probably my knowledge concerns vista then.
11:37<pharaun>well good to know that i'm legit as it is right now
11:37<Kenny>Huh. HOW do you get a, say, 3 or 4 CPU license for Windows 7? :<
11:37<Kenny>They only allow 2 processors
11:37<Ovron>amitz: afaik, you could have 4 VMs with vista unless I remember wrong
11:37<pharaun>Kenny: windows 7 is only 2 processor
11:37<straterra>2 SOCKET
11:37<Kenny>Yes, 2 processors, one in each socket
11:37<pharaun>something like 128+ core each processor is permitted, well i suppose socket is more accurate
11:37<Kenny>cores ≠ processor
11:37*mwalling never understood /socket licensing
11:37<Ovron>2 processors in each socket! \o/
11:37<Kenny>But say, I wanted 4 processors. :<
11:38<Kenny>Ovron: Sure, why not? :D
11:38<pharaun>Kenny: buy higher edition of windows, enterprise or so?
11:38<Ovron>with a little force, anything is possible!
11:38<Kenny>pharaun: No fun. :<
11:38<pharaun>Kenny: that's licensing for you
11:38<amitz>Ovron: even for home edition?
11:38<pharaun>Kenny: basically windows 7 as far as the spec, does allow 2 socket/processor, with 128+ or was it 256 cores each
11:38<Kenny>that's just retarded.
11:38<Ovron>amitz: yep
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11:39<Kenny>Seriously, I have no FUCKING clue why people pays for windows.
11:39<pharaun>Kenny: for pro/ultimate/etc as far as i understand, never dealt with the home, there's a page, let me drag it up
11:39<straterra>If you wanted 4 can buy a 4 socket license
11:39<Ovron>home only allows 1 CPU and 16GB RAM, I think
11:39<amitz>damn my unreliable memory
11:39<Kenny>... Oh my fucking god.
11:39<Kenny>Ovron: I shall giggle myself to death in anger.
11:40<straterra>It's not like Microsoft is the only company to use per-socket licensing
11:40<Kenny>straterra: Which other company does? :)
11:40<pharaun>oracle does for their db, and IBM is pretty big on the per-socket thing on their mainframes
11:40<Kenny>IBM and Oracle doesn't count.
11:40<straterra>Kenny: VMWare, Oracle..
11:40<Ovron>oracle's licensing can be quite... funny for their db.
11:40<straterra>I believe the commercial Xen does
11:40<Kenny>and mainframes are just cheating.
11:40<pharaun>Kenny: welcome to the enterprise
11:41<Ovron>ENTERPRISE *
11:41<pharaun>Kenny: you don't have to like it but that's how the major vendors license their stuff, per socket, or ram limits, etc...
11:41<Gika>i just use a virtualized copy of windows xp to load maps on my garmin, and it's always a nightmare-like experience
11:41<Ovron>"c. Icons, Images and Sounds. While the software is running, you may use but not share its icons, images, sounds, and media."
11:41<Ovron>I think someone overheard the sound on the phone :(
11:41<Kenny>pharaun: They don't count as major if I don't have to use it. :>
11:41<pharaun>Kenny: the *world* does so suck it up :p
11:42<Kenny>The world is of less importance.
11:42<Ovron>can you even legally run XP in a VM?
11:42-!-linville [] has joined #linode
11:42<straterra>Microsoft will even give you one for free with a qualifying 7 license
11:42<Ovron>That's different, though.
11:43<straterra>How so?>
11:43<MrYiff>straterra: sure, you just need a retail or VL license iirc
11:43<Ovron>It is something that is part of windows 7 pro or "higher" versions
11:43<MrYiff>enterprise or ultimate only iirc
11:43<straterra>Pro has it too
11:43<straterra>As Enterprise is Pro
11:43<amitz>Ovron: I believe the xp license doesn't mention anything about virtualization, so everybody assume they can :-p
11:44<pharaun>i'm trying to dig this info up but google is being GARBAGE
11:44<Ovron>movie time! o/
11:44<Kenny>Windows 7 Pro/Windows 7 Ultimate/Windows 7 Enterprise has a little string in the OEM License string in the Virtual PC emulated BIOS, that immediately activates Windows XP
11:45<MrYiff>for VL stuff this is a pretty good place to look:
11:45<pharaun>Kenny: for example you got ram limitations built into each edition of windows 7
11:45<MrYiff>they even explain some stuff in simple language!
11:45<Kenny>pharaun: That's just... Pathetic.
11:45<straterra>It's not pathetic..
11:45<straterra>It's how enterprise licensing works. If you have the hardware to hit the limit, chances are that you can afford the upgraded license
11:46<pharaun>Kenny: BAM ->
11:46<pharaun>more info on num of socket, processor, etc
11:46<pharaun>older stuff but as you can see, market segeration, if you can't afford the more expensive license you don't need it
11:46<Kenny>straterra: The price of Ultimate is what I would call step for an Enterprise version.
11:46<pharaun>Kenny: hahah
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11:47<pharaun>Kenny: its not hundreds, its going to be thousands more likely
11:47<straterra>Ultimate is CHEAP when it comes to enterprise software
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11:47<Ovron>thousands of USD, yes
11:47<Kenny>pharaun: Ultimate is around 5000DKK, which is what some competing Enterprise Server operating systems, with unlimited client licenses, and no cpu/ram limitations go for.
11:47<MrYiff>it gets worse when you look at MS Office licensing in a TS environment
11:47<MrYiff>then prepare to kill yourself
11:48<Ovron>look at dell or hp or whatever's server configurator, and look how much the OS there costs
11:48<Kenny>Actually I think the competing server OS is even cheaper.
11:48<pharaun>Kenny: that's cheap compared to enterprise stuff
11:48<Kenny>pharaun: And I who thought I would never hear "Apple" and "Cheap", connected. :P
11:48<pharaun>Kenny: its easy to hit... $10,000, hell a million dollar USD for some of the higher end enterprise stuff
11:49<Kenny>But even then, when they make RAM limitations on the license, they don't provide a license that can use the full limits of 64bit addressing
11:49<Ovron>VMware ESXi v4.0.2,2CPU, Embedded, ENT PLUS, 3 Yr Upgrade Subscription, SD [add $14,107.00]
11:50<pharaun>Kenny: its about money :p think about it, most consumer don't have access to 192gb of ram, so they clamp it down to say 8gb and say you need to buy higher edition for more ram
11:50<Kenny>well, lol, that's only $4k more than I paid for my Segway... I shouldn't talk. :D
11:50<straterra>Kenny: Uhm.. 2008 R2 Enterprise has a 2TB memory limit
11:50<straterra>Windows 7 Pro and up has a 192GB memory limit. That is ALOT for a desktop
11:51<Kenny>straterra: Oh right, I'm looking at server 2003
11:51<straterra>2003 is ancient
11:51<linbot> |
11:51<Kenny>yes, but that was the link pharaun gave. :P
11:51<GLaDOSDan>I <3 alot
11:51<pharaun>i fucking give up
11:51<Ovron>my google-fu is faster than your!
11:51<pharaun>google is being a turd
11:52<Ovron>you have other problems than licensing cost if you're running 2TB RAM on a single server
11:53<straterra>And actually use it all :x
11:53<pharaun>Kenny: btw my $500 motherboard is able to use up to 192 gb of ram
11:53<Ovron>that wouldn't be a problem ;p
11:53<pharaun>actually using 2tb is going to require an expensive than hell motherboard
11:53<straterra>HP sells a server that will take 2TB ram
11:54<Kenny>pharaun: I got one with around 300-something GB of ram from Dell completely for free :)
11:54<pharaun>Kenny: when you get into big iron stuff like that kind of stuff, the licensing is going to be *cheap*
11:54<pharaun>Kenny: is it just ram, or did you get an actual machine :p
11:55<Kenny>pharaun: Actual machine
11:55<Kenny>And it wasn't the only one :)
11:55<Kenny>I got a few DAMN NOISY tower servers, a huuuge blade server setup, and some other junk
11:55<Kenny>I threw it out though
11:55<straterra>The DL980 G7 will take 2TB memory, 8 socket
11:56<pharaun>Kenny: why the hell did you throw it out
11:56<Kenny>straterra: See? And all the disappointed consumers who will try to run their Windows Vista Home Basic disc on it :<
11:56<pharaun>straterra: hahaha nice, i didn't know those kind of machine existed \o/
11:56<Kenny>pharaun: Wth am I gonig to do with a fucking blade server? Thought of the power consumption of it?
11:56<straterra>Kenny: Yeah..cause someone should be obligated to run a $100 OS on a $37k server :)
11:56<pharaun>Kenny: sell it?
11:57<pharaun>straterra: holy mother of god 128dimm slots!
11:57<Kenny>pharaun: It said "Not for sale, hardware owned by Dell Computers" with stickers on it
11:57<straterra>The nice model of those has 8 redundant power supplies
11:57<pharaun>i wonder how the hell they managed to squeeze it in
11:57<Kenny>not sure selling that kind of monster gear would be a good idea
11:57<pharaun>i've heard of 1+2 setup, etc... but 8?!
11:57<Kenny>straterra: Psh, my wrist-watch had 8 redundant power supplies!
11:58<Kenny>In form of 7 spare batteries.
11:58<straterra>8 socket, 8 core Xeons with 16 expansion slots
11:59<Kenny>(Actually my watch does have 2 redundant power supplies, 1 internal rechargable lithium ion battery cell, and solar cells on the dial. It uses the solar cells to charge the battery, but they're powerful enough to power the watch. >:3
12:00<pharaun>straterra: i would love to have a machine like that, honest to god
12:00<pharaun>but with 8x1.2kw psu, my power bill would hate me
12:00<Kenny>pharaun: Oh no, you got that all wrong
12:00<Kenny>The power bill and power plant would LOVE you
12:00<Kenny>your WALLET would hate you.
12:01<jkwood>That's why God made extension cords and neighbors.
12:01<Nivex>we have three 2x6 core Xeon w/ 128GB RAM servers running our VMWare cluster
12:01-!-richguk [~rich@] has joined #linode
12:01<Kenny>jkwood: And that's why man made fuses. :P
12:01<Kenny>... And then God made more extension cords, and more neighbors. Damn.
12:01<straterra>pharaun: your power grid would hate it
12:01-!-AviMarcus [~avi@] has joined #linode
12:01<InitHello>woohoo, oracle does ENTERPRISE math:
12:01<Nivex>move to the desert, build a huge solar array...
12:02<Kenny>Nivex: Experience power outage very night...
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12:03<jkwood>Not with a bank of telephone batteries, you wouldn't.
12:03<pharaun>straterra: hehe indeed, 8x1.2kw is roughly how much amp i wonder
12:03<pharaun>straterra: oh yow, 9600watt / 120v -> 80amps, most older houses has 100amp drop
12:04<pharaun>newer ones are 200amp drop iirc
12:04<hobot>well kenny if you ever want to get rid of a 300GB ram server and you need somewhere to toss it, try my house
12:04<Kenny>pharaun: I got 130amp per phase, 230/400v... Will that do? :>
12:04<Kenny>hobot: I'll keep that in mind. :P
12:04<pharaun>same here hobot
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12:05<hobot>yeah me and pharaun will switch off weeks
12:05<pharaun>seriously, yes
12:05<Kenny>It was old gear though, so the power usage would be fucking nuts.
12:05<hobot>we've never been more serious in our lives
12:05-!-id10t [~id10t@] has joined #linode
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12:05<id10t>'lo all
12:05<jkwood>That's why you pull a couple hardware haccks to lower consumption.
12:05<pharaun>tho my calc is probably not exactly accurate, i assumed 9600watt at 120v....
12:06-!-saikat [] has quit []
12:06<hobot>yeah that is not a joker
12:06<Kenny>InitHello: ...
12:06<Kenny>That IS indeed ENTERPRISE math.
12:06<pharaun>can't some modern hardware be able to power off part of their ram and cpu which would help save power
12:06<InitHello>Kenny: quite.
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12:07<Kenny>jkwood: Hardware hacks, such as powering it before the watt-meter? :)
12:07<Kenny>or modifying the watt-meter to run slower?
12:07-!-golb [golb@] has joined #linode
12:07<Kenny>I've seen many creative things done. :P
12:09<jkwood>I was thinking more along the lines of rebuilding the power supplies.
12:09-!-snobby [] has joined #linode
12:10<Kenny>Even if you get a 80 or 90% efficiency power supply, they're still gonna draw more than you'll ever want to pay for
12:10<pharaun>explain? as in converting it to higher volt/phase ?
12:10<Kenny>rebuilding would just be optimizing it, old supplies don't have high efficiency
12:10<JediMaster>I take it when you add a stack script into the linode manager they're not publically visible?
12:10<id10t>any of hte linode folks available? i have a billing/buying question
12:11<Kenny>Modifying the watt meter is pretty easy if you have a mechanic one - just put a stick on the edge of the wheel, it'll slow it down
12:11<pharaun>id10t: may be better to submit a ticket, i haven't seen an op in here yet
12:11<id10t>pharaun, thanks
12:11<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
12:11<Kenny>Electronic, and the easiest thing is just to only have *some* of your things on it. If your usage disappears, they'll show up and inspect, so you have to be careful
12:11<pharaun>id10t: tho if you don't have a linode already, might need to email em or something, they tend to be rather quick
12:12<id10t>pharaun, i have a linode (2 actually) but i have finally talked my boss into buying one for here at work
12:12<pharaun>id10t: oh? alright then ticketing is probably best bet if a op isn't here soonish
12:12<id10t>obviously i'd like to keep the 2 separate :)
12:12<pharaun>id10t: i think you need to create another "separate" account
12:12<pharaun>but really, just send em a ticket on that
12:13<id10t>pharaun, yes... but the trickey thing on our end is that we prefer to pay via PO since we are a .edu
12:13<Kenny>id10t: You can still ask over a ticket - Linode tends to be very flexible :)
12:13-!-Ddorda [~Ddorda@] has joined #linode
12:14<id10t>kenny - i know.. .the "guys" were ready to "package" several months of service as a "book" for the linux class i teach
12:14<pharaun>id10t: aha... yeah support ticket is the best then if its unusual,
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12:18<hobot>that's really cool that they were packaging it
12:18<hobot>linode is awesome as usual
12:18<pharaun>indeed :)
12:18<id10t>unfortunately, the dept. chair canceled the class on me
12:19<hobot>oh that's poop
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12:20<id10t>yeah, so much for a "services w/ linux" class. I still get to indoctrinate 16 minds each semester though...
12:21<hobot>that's good!
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12:24<ioio>in Linode DNS manager, to add a subdomain of a given domain, whould I add another DNS entry or just add an A Record to the main domain?
12:24<Ovron>the latter
12:25<ioio>now can anybody tell me why i d want to use reverse DNS and what is it for ?
12:26-!-stafamus [~stafamus@] has joined #linode
12:26<jkwood>ioio: Well,it depends on the application we're talking about.
12:26<Kenny>Reverse DNS is commonly used to validate a DNS
12:26<pharaun>don't email servers tend to check that the reverse dns match?
12:26<jkwood>For irc, it's really not much more than vanity thing.
12:26<Kenny>to avoid spoofing of spammers and "hackers"
12:27<Kenny>Often, email from a domain without a matching rDNS will be marked as spam
12:27<id10t>i think for some of the anti-spam efforts reverse dns is checked but it is not required per spec for basic mail services
12:27<linbot>New news from forums: Adding Vbulletin Nginx Rewrite rules in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
12:27<Ovron>I use it to check if googlebots really are googlebots in a webapp <3
12:27<Kenny>And, secure services such as Kerberos authentication will not run on a server that does not resolve the rDNS to the DNS record.
12:30<pharaun>Ovron: as in when googlebot hit your webapp?
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12:31<hobot>a lot of spiders do masquerade as google, thats a good idea
12:31<Ovron>if they claim to be googlebot, the ip gets added to a table which a background worker processes
12:31-!-saikat [] has quit [Quit: saikat]
12:31<Kenny>and if it's NOT valid, you block it? :>
12:31<Ovron>and if it ends up not being google, they get the boot
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12:31<pharaun>Ovron: oh so you feed them customized data ? i thought google didn't really allow that
12:32<Kenny>Ovron: He means, do you customize data for google's bots?
12:32<pharaun>Ovron: oh basically with SEO, some people will feed the google bot custom data that normal people don't see, google does not like it
12:32<Ovron>why would I do that - read above what I wrote, it is pretty clear what I use it for
12:33<pharaun>Ovron: you said the ip is added to a table, and a background worker processes?
12:33<hobot>and then the boot
12:34<pharaun>oh so that background worker processes it to check to see if its really a googlebot or not?
12:34<Ovron>if a client claims to be googlebot, the ip is recorded in a table and a background process does the resolving on it, to not delay the serving of the page. If it shows that it really isn't googlebot, but someone just spoofing the user agent, they get the boot.
12:35<pharaun>Ovron: ohh gotcha, i got a bit >_< on the background process, thought you meant serving up special content, nvm :)
12:35<Ovron>I allow googlebot to be more brutal with the crawling. Any other client crawling at the rate that I allow google, will get the boot.
12:36<Kenny>Ovron: You won't give MY crawler the boot, will you? :>
12:36-!-saikat [] has joined #linode
12:36<hobot>just make it slow Kenny
12:36<pharaun>Ovron: aha i see, that makes sense :)
12:36<Kenny>It's speed is only limited by the servers upload and my download...
12:37<Ovron>You'd get booted after ~10 page views then ;p
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12:37<Kenny>Ovron: :<
12:37<pharaun>Kenny: no, lots of bots will request multiple pages faster than a "normal" person can
12:37<pharaun>hence it can overload the web-server and basically act as a DoS
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12:37<Kenny>pharaun: As I said, my crawls speed was only limited by the network and server load. :>
12:38<hobot>good thing wget has a time wait option
12:38<Kenny>heh, this was a project I was told to write in Java
12:38<pharaun>no no, if you download a single file, the server just have to process it once, then it "streams" the file to you, which is lower load than say
12:38<Kenny>I was supposed to design a search engine in ENTERPRISE Java
12:38<pharaun>rendering multiple pages each with multiple db call, and etc.....
12:38<pharaun>its the page rendering/processing/etc that kills the servers
12:39<Kenny>pharaun: I know that it poses higher load. My crawling speed was STILL only limited by what the server was able to deliver
12:39<Kenny>I didn't put limits in the code
12:39<Kenny>it just crawled as fast as it could send GET's
12:39<Ovron>that's not very nice
12:39<Kenny>I wasn't told to design a nice crawler :>
12:39<Ovron>then you shouldn't have designed one at all
12:39<pharaun>Kenny: no no, what i mean is 10 get to 10x 100mb file is probably less strain than 10x gets to a complicated page to render.
12:39<pharaun>Kenny: what you did is basically a DoS on that poor server
12:40<Kenny>I was only told to design one that could take 1 random webpage as input, and then crawl and index everything from there, following all parseable links
12:40<pharaun>this is why some servers will ban/block people who put insane value in their tcp/connect in firefox
12:40<pharaun>Kenny: no, a basic spider has a built in delay/etc so it does not overload the target web-server, if it does not, then its a bad crawler
12:41<Kenny>pharaun: I always selected a large news paper, or the Denmarks Radio site as starting point, 'causing major strain on their servers. (DR requires you to pay for their TV services by law, if you own as much as a cell phone, so they deserve it.)
12:41<pharaun>all of my crawler stuff/mass download stuff has a built in delay to ensure i don't overload the server, this is basic respect and net-equittent (sp)
12:41<Kenny>Yes, but again, it was not part of the specification I was told to follow. ;)
12:41<Kenny>Plus, the internet connection the school had was crap ._.
12:41<pharaun>Kenny: that could be considered a DoS and get you in trouble with the law you know
12:42<hobot>well it depends on how he runs it
12:42<Kenny>pharaun: I'd like to see them prosecute a 14 year old kid for following the school programme. :>
12:42<hobot>ive in my dumber days crawled sites in a not nice way not realizing i
12:42<hobot>I dont think I ever got banned
12:42<Kenny>hobot: It took a link, downloaded the content and began processing it, then went on and did the same with all links it could find in that page, so on.
12:42<pharaun>hobot: oh i know but again with law, its about *intent*
12:43<pharaun>and if you took down a minor site, probably not going to have much legal issue but if you took down say... cnn?
12:43<hobot>but its like saying you might be arrested for tresspasing when no one is around
12:43<Kenny>pharaun: My intent was pure! I only wanted to index their site very aggressively! :P
12:43<hobot>also I dont think you can take down cnn with his internet connection
12:43<hobot>but I take your point
12:43<pharaun>hobot: oh i know, i just wanted to caution him
12:44<hobot>yeah the problem is a small fry guy who is litigous and knows how to read his logs
12:44<hobot>in this case imo
12:44<Kenny>(Denmarks Radio is the national government sponsored channel, which demands you to pay $500 a year to their services, if you own A) A computer with an internet connection over 256kb/s, B) a cell phone with any internet connection, C) A monitor capable of receiving radio frequency signals, or D) An audio device capable of receiving audio signals over RF.
12:45<hobot>sounds like they got you there
12:45<Vegar>sounds almost like norway
12:45<Kenny>(And all users of the devices have to pay, so if I have someone living with me that I'm not married to or in a sexual relationship with, we both have to pay that to use a shared TV)
12:45<Kenny>Well, I've checked things
12:45<Kenny>It's against the Danish Constitution. :)
12:45-!-Sputnik7 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:45-!-id10t [~id10t@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:46<hobot>time to sue I guess
12:46<pharaun>is this not similiar to the UK & norway tv broadcast license?
12:46<Kenny>Because it's not a choice, it's not a pay-to-use service, but legally a tax. Taxes has to be supported by law, by the Danish Constitution, and laws can only be set in power by vote of the Parliament. This is only signed by the Cultural Minister..
12:47<hobot>ep time to sue
12:47<linbot>New news from forums: SSL Certificate - /etc/apache2/ports.conf - denied in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
12:47-!-stefanie [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
12:48<Kenny>hobot: I just don't pay :)
12:48<hobot>turns out not following an unjust law isnt an excuse
12:48<hobot>which is the worst!
12:49<Kenny>They have no legal way to force me, unless I invite their License Inspector in (Which has no legal right to access your home without permission, and cannot achieve this permission from others than you), or tell them I have the devices, use them, and do not wish to pay
12:49-!-jed [] has left #linode []
12:49<hobot>well then you are fine
12:49<pharaun>its better to 1) follow the law and sue/do what you can to modify it, 2) relocate/move
12:49<hobot>in the long term
12:49<Kenny>Actually *owning* a TV, not in use, without an antenna connected means you have to pay the $500 a year.
12:49<pharaun>i heard a friend from norway complaining about this, which is why he uses computer monitors for his xbox because he does not watch tv
12:49<Kenny>pharaun: I just turned 18, I have plenty of time to do it.
12:49<dominikh>Kenny: ey, you stole that system from us
12:50<Kenny>But the entire Danish population is against this.
12:50<Kenny>dominikh: You can have it back.
12:50<pharaun>Kenny: well then do something to get the law passed
12:50<dominikh>Kenny: we don't want it back
12:50<Kenny>pharaun: That's the problem, it's not a law :P
12:50<mwalling>rally in the square until your leader quits
12:50<Kenny>A minister cannot define laws
12:50<hobot>I like this one
12:50<Kenny>and he is the only one who signed it
12:50<pharaun>so its not a law, its a regulation then ?
12:51<Kenny>Yes, but regulations cannot define taxes
12:51<Kenny>Taxes can only be defined by laws
12:51<Kenny>And seeing you cannot chose not to use their service, and therefore not pay, it's legal definition is a tax
12:51<pharaun>and did you consult the laws on this topic ?
12:51<Kenny>When you turn 18, they send you a copy of the Danish Constitution
12:51<Kenny>that's where the "tax has to be supported by laws!" crap is in
12:52<Kenny>(Yeah, I read the whole thing out of boredom.)
12:52<pharaun>there's no amendement to change this, no other laws on this topic? did you consult all laws related to this, not just the Constitution?
12:53<pharaun>and again IANAL so...
12:53<Kenny>Over here, the constitution is kinda final, and exceptions cannot be made without changing it
12:53<Kenny>and changing it is illegal I think. :P
12:53-!-SignalMapr [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
12:54<hobot>yeah each countries legal system has huge differences
12:55<pharaun>which is why i said to read all related laws/etc to ensure that you are indeed in the right, etc then take action to correct it or follow the law
12:55<Kenny>pharaun: Well, seeing the law is against the law, I cannot following the law without performing an illegal action, and therefore I feel it is my duty not to pay the tax. :3
12:56-!-libertiy [] has joined #linode
12:56<libertiy>hi everyone
12:56<libertiy>i have some troubles getting into my linode account
12:56<pharaun>hello libertiy
12:56<pharaun>what kind of trouble
12:56<libertiy>it says that the owner of account will be mailed with request for changed ip
12:56<libertiy>now im not sure if my ip changed but i dont recieve any mails neither
12:56<libertiy>at least not yet, not sure how long that should take
12:57<pharaun>if it has been a while you may want to contact support
12:57<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
12:57<pharaun>can try email them, they are fairly responsive to email
12:59<libertiy>its not that big deal i didcentos upgrades and my ssh took some longer time to get back
12:59<libertiy>so i wanted to login to panel but well it works now, but still strange
12:59<libertiy>i guess its my iphone
12:59<libertiy>i logged in with my iphone and the linode app
12:59<pharaun>oh you can get into the panel now?
12:59<libertiy>no not from my safari browser
12:59<InitHello>heh. The wording almost implies that the rest of us *don't* know what we're talking about
12:59<libertiy>iphone goes okay guess thats it ;) could be a little bug there :P
13:00<Kenny>InitHello: Many don't, but lets not comment on that. :P
13:00<Kenny>After all, there's 452 users in here. ;)
13:00*InitHello chuckles
13:00<hobot>its very true
13:00<InitHello>aye, some of them are bound to not know what they're talking about
13:00<InitHello>that's simple statistics
13:00-!-TIBS01 [~TIBS01@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:00<pharaun>libertiy: ah, try to submit a support ticket then if you are actually in the linode manager
13:00<pharaun>InitHello: very true, or each person have their own domain of knowledge,
13:01<libertiy>no way to submit ticket in the iphone app btw ;)
13:01<InitHello>well, I mean in any given situation, among 438 people, some of then necessarily don't know what the rest are talking about
13:01<libertiy>ah damn its really the iphone!
13:01<InitHello>their talents lie in other areas, kind of like urmom
13:01<libertiy>we have a bug here i guess ;p if you login from iphone it detects logging from another ip and so you cannot get back in on your computer, unhandy
13:01<Kenny>InitHello: Simple American statistics say that 300 million out of 7 billion knows what they're talking about. That's 4.2857142857%, or 19.328571429 users.
13:02<libertiy>anyone some recommendations on closing down a centos box?
13:02<libertiy>ive been looking into snort
13:02<InitHello>Kenny: that's about the number I see active at one time
13:02<libertiy>but dont want ot spend days configuring just quick startup and in spare time tweak it
13:03-!-JSharp [] has joined #linode
13:04<pharaun>libertiy: oh really? i never used the iphone app, so sorry :)
13:04<pharaun>libertiy: start with the basics on securing the box
13:05<libertiy>pharaun: thx i have basics all set
13:05<pharaun>libertiy: start with making sure you only have the services that you want to run... running, then 2) set up a firewall, etc
13:05<libertiy>i was interested in closing it down further
13:05<Kenny>The basics of closing it down is to run "halt" as root.
13:05<libertiy>service is done, firewall is done, en several other tweaks from docs aounr
13:05<pharaun>snort/etc imho are kind of bit much imho but you can go for it if you want
13:05<libertiy>running halt as root ;)
13:05<hobot>unplug network cable
13:05<libertiy>i was wondering what you think
13:05<Kenny>libertiy: Hey, you wanted to close it down, right? :P
13:05<pharaun>libertiy: oh btw, backup!
13:05<libertiy>say you have a site like facebook
13:05<libertiy>with many user data
13:06<libertiy>its a ruby on rails app where you have spend many time money on developing
13:06<libertiy>and you want it to be top secure
13:06<pharaun>libertiy: you need to make sure you have backups too so that *WHEN* it gets compromised you can recover quickly, notice i said *when* not if
13:06<libertiy>what would be the best option
13:06<libertiy>i hvae thought on encrypting the whole server partition for example
13:06<libertiy>or use a protected remote sql database with encrypted data transfer
13:06<pharaun>libertiy: odds is the compromise will be through the ruby on rails app or via social engineering
13:07<libertiy>just some wild ideas on how you could secure everything beyound the part where a hacker could get in
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13:07<libertiy>just thinking technics here ;) its keeping me busy lately how those "big" sites secure there systems
13:07<libertiy>if a hacker could get into a facebook server
13:07<libertiy>and streal there facebook source code and db
13:08<libertiy>that is a danger right? they must have some ways to prevent that beyound securing the machine with no services a good firewall, etc
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13:08<libertiy>no services = no unwanted services like ftp etc
13:08<Kenny>libertiy: Then they would sit with a large amount of pics of corporate parties, emo status messages, and a really really bad social networking system.
13:09<jkwood>It's called writing your code in a security-conscious manner. And with large codebases, it can be very difficult.
13:09<pharaun>libertiy: honestly if i was you, and if you are this concerned about security
13:09<jkwood>Especially when you allow anyone and their brother write applications that run on top of your code.
13:09<pharaun>libertiy: i would suggest/recommend you focus on your code base and making sure its being coded in a security-conscious manner
13:09<Kenny>Actually, Facebook runs a "You won't expect to find the access right in front of your nose..." approach, and run a rooted telnet service.
13:09<pharaun>libertiy: odds is you will be compromised via your app, not via other part
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13:12<jkwood>libertiy: If you're just looking to make sure that you're not running insecure software from other vendors, I would subscribe to some security mailing lists as a starting point.
13:13<jkwood>That will help you keep software up to date against known vulnerabilities.
13:13<pharaun>libertiy: did you do stuff like nmap to make sure you don't have open ports that you didn't want to, etc... and as jkwood said ^^^
13:13<pharaun>the key is keeping your software up to date, and being aware of known security issue
13:14<Vegar>also check netstat -nltp to see what's listening on which port
13:14<pharaun>and finally *BACKUPS!* so that you can recover from compromises when it happens
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13:16<libertiy>yess check check all covered ;)
13:16-!-nonorthodox [~chatzilla@] has joined #linode
13:16<libertiy>im going to look into encrypting a linux os filesystem if possible would be nice
13:17<Kenny>well, if they exploit your app, the application already has access to the encrypted filesystem, so I'm not sure that would make *any* difference
13:18<nonorthodox>I forgot how this is done, I just pointed my new domain to linode's nameservers
13:18<nonorthodox>now I need to import a new zone, right? in the DNS manager?
13:18<Kenny>import, or just create :P
13:18<nonorthodox>I forgot waht SOA email is...
13:18<nonorthodox>my own email?
13:18<jkwood>The main benefit of filesystem encryption is in a physical access situation. I doubt it will do you much good, libertiy.
13:19<libertiy>yeah i read it thx i just have to readup a bit more on centos security topics
13:19<Kenny>nonorthodox: I believe that's the email a whois will give you as "admin"
13:19-!-snobby [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:19<nonorthodox>ah ok..
13:20<nonorthodox>it is protected for privacy, that is waht I thought, thanks
13:21<nonorthodox>question, waht is the difference between slave and master zone?
13:23<Kenny>Slave zone is the kitchen and the basement...
13:24<Kenny>No, well, I believe a slave zone is when you're creating a replica server(?)
13:24<nonorthodox>uhm ok
13:24<nonorthodox>one last thing... why can't I add a new IP to my linode 512?
13:24-!-Sputnik7 [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:25<nonorthodox>is it restricted for 1 IP only? I thought I could have up to 2
13:25<mwalling>why cant you?
13:25<nonorthodox>it says I reached my limit...
13:25<nonorthodox>even though I only have one
13:25<Kenny>A second IP costs $1 a month, iirc
13:25<linbot>Available extras: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP addresses: $ 1 per address/month. To add extras, visit the Extras tab on a Linode.
13:25-!-TIBS01 [~TIBS01@] has joined #linode
13:25<nonorthodox>yeah, I am trying to get that extra
13:25<nonorthodox>• Your Linode has reached its IP Limit. Please open a support ticket.
13:25<nonorthodox>that is waht it says when trying to do it
13:25<Kenny>well then, open a support ticket. ;)
13:26-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
13:26<Kenny>It might just be a small error
13:26<nonorthodox>heh ok
13:26<Kenny>just open a ticket and ask for help
13:26-!-linville [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:26-!-Bhavicp [] has joined #linode
13:26<@caker>Kenny: last warning
13:26<nonorthodox>I wanted to check here first if it was something I misread or hadn't seen before opening a ticket
13:27<Kenny>(That link was actually for another channel, so sorry about that)
13:27<Kenny>(But you are of course allowed to read it if you have a bit of scientific and religious humor.)
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13:30<pharaun>libertiy: encryption isn't really going to help in the vps case cos odds is when you are exploited its via the web, and its already there ready to be read
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13:33<nonorthodox>ah, I need to make my IPs static before adding a new one, aparently that's why I was failing to, Kenny
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13:34<Kenny>Oh, I'll keep that in mind in the future
13:34<Kenny>Thanks for sharing the knowledg!
13:34<pharaun>nonorthodox: oh static? as in the whole dhcp -> static in your config?
13:35-!-linville [] has joined #linode
13:35<nonorthodox>I thnk so
13:35<nonorthodox>it told me to use this guide
13:36<nonorthodox>yeah exactly that
13:36<Kenny>of course, if the linode attempts to assign the addresses over DHCP, things might get a bit problematic...
13:37<pharaun>basically, dhcp works for 1 ip, over that, nope, and they use dhcp for the initial setup.
13:39<WoodWork>Anyone else getting brief disconnections from their London node?
13:40-!-v0lksman [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
13:40-!-hfb3 [] has joined #linode
13:40<Kenny>WoodWork: My ssh session to one of my london linode is currently stable
13:41<Kenny>it's only been up for about half an hour though (the session, that is)
13:41<WoodWork>Ah, thanks for that.
13:41<harrumph>who knows of an ftp client that crawls dirs and searches for files?
13:42<pharaun>harrumph: what are you trying to do? download a directory tree, or search through the whole directory tree for a specific file?
13:43-!-afsdsf [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
13:43-!-afsdsf [] has joined #linode
13:43<afsdsf>sorry, I was disconnected. Any replies?
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13:45<warren>for a moment I thought the Linode logo was a Tetris piece, but it has an extra block.
13:45<harrumph>pharaun: i inherited a web account hosted at a shit provider. there's a misconfiguration in the cms and docs are being served from somewhere in the tree, but i can't tell where. so i need to search for a name and get a path.
13:45<jkwood>afsdsf: To?
13:46<pharaun>harrumph: no ssh?
13:46<afsdsf>regarding which vps should I use to start a web hosting company
13:46<harrumph>shitty provider. no.,
13:46<pharaun>harrumph: that's what i thought, just wanted to rule that out
13:47<Kenny>afsdsf: That really depends on what amount of customers you expect to have
13:47<afsdsf>I'd like to host about 300 low to medium traffic domains on a vps. I currently host about 40 and I'm spending about 100gbs transfer per month.
13:48<Ovron>harrumph: filezilla has what you need
13:48<afsdsf>I know the hardware can handle it. My biggest concern is transfer overages because Linodes is not in the generous
13:48<Ovron>F3, or Server -> Remote search (or something like that; client is in swedish here)
13:48<Kenny>simple math would be that 300 is 7.5 times as much as 40, so those 100GB becomes 750GB
13:48<pharaun>afsdsf: what kind of pages? highly dynamic?
13:49<linbot>Available extras: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP addresses: $ 1 per address/month. To add extras, visit the Extras tab on a Linode.
13:49<afsdsf>Probably combination of static and php. However, I'm planning, and currently am using a sencond vps for mysql only
13:49<pharaun>afsdsf: you know if you buy multiple linodes, that the bw is pooled together right? also you pay ... well yeah
13:49<harrumph>Ovron: thnaks
13:49<warren>afsdsf, I really like Linode, but their bandwidth is somewhat limited compared to other companies. I was previously with serverbeach who gave me 2TB or more every month of data transfer.
13:50<hobot>did you use it all?
13:50<pharaun>afsdsf: linode pools bw from all of your nodes, and the higher end plans have up to 2tb of bw
13:50<Kenny>warren: And what did you pay? :)
13:50<pharaun>and you can purchase more for 10cent a gb, outtage is 15cent
13:50<jkwood>Also note that there is an unmetered backend network in each datacenter, so in your situation, you could use all the external bandwidth from the sql server for the web-facing side.
13:50<warren>afsdsf, if your average will be 750GB you will want some extra on top of that to handle unexpected traffic
13:50<hawk>pharaun: you mean overage?
13:50<warren>Kenny, $99/mo
13:51<pharaun>hawk: doh, overage, my bad :) yes
13:51<Kenny>warren: And what did you get as the specs on the machine? :P
13:51-!-paul [] has joined #linode
13:51<afsdsf>yes, I just dont want to get stuck with an extremely high overage bill. I also dont want to cut off a hosting account if they go over their alloted bw to save me money
13:51-!-paul is now known as orudie
13:51<warren>Kenny, 4 core Opteron, 3GB RAM, 2x320GB SATA drives
13:52-!-orudie [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (Too many failed password attempts.))]
13:52<afsdsf>I like Linodes quality. Plus their pricing and BW offering keeps away people that would abuse their systems
13:52<Kenny>warren: Dedicated? Did they have any issues delivering the product?
13:52-!-orudie [] has joined #linode
13:52<jkwood>afsdsf: Linode is very forgiving on overages. If it's just a few mb or so, they often won't even bother charging you.
13:52<afsdsf>It's just a catch 22.
13:52<warren>Kenny, they were extremely reliable for me for years, but I switched because I wasn't USING that much power and I need to save money. Linode I've found is incredibly awesome.
13:53<Kenny>jkwood: They say " a few GB over, and we usually won't interfere"
13:53<pharaun>afsdsf: you could just purchase a couple of their larger 2tb a month plans, those bw pools you know
13:53<jkwood>Kenny: Thanks, I just didn't want to put words in their mouth.
13:53<warren>Kenny, and I only use CPU/bandwidth in short bursts for my weird usage pattern, so Linode is actually FASTER for me than that dedicated server.
13:53<pharaun>afsdsf: also the bw from your private db would also pool with your web-server too
13:53<warren>pharaun, that's a good point
13:54-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:54<afsdsf>right now I have a pool of 500gbs. and yes, I agree pharaun.
13:54<pharaun>afsdsf: so you could setup 2 linode 512, each with 200gb, of bw, one gets the db, one gets the web-server, bam you got 400gb of bw for the web-server
13:54<Ovron>pharaun: >:(
13:54<afsdsf>I believe I need to make my setup more sophisticated.
13:54<pharaun>Ovron: what?
13:54<Ovron>so you could ...
13:54<pharaun>*set up
13:54<warren>afsdsf, have it wear a coat & tie and speak with a British accent
13:55<hobot>have it run sinatra to serve all its files
13:55<hobot>that's a classy web framework
13:55*KHobbits points out that tehre isnt a 'british accent' :P
13:55<pharaun>warren: ded can be really nice if you know exactly your load/etc but i like that linode pools stuff so its easy to scale out, they tend to encourage scaleout from the pricing structure of the plans
13:55<afsdsf>no. I think I'll split off services onto separate VPS machines. Have a large linode to store user data and then other vps machines for mysql, email, dns, etc
13:55<warren>pharaun, yeah, I wish I knew about Linode earlier.
13:55<Kenny>warren: Fair enough - I used to have a dedicated machine to $150 a month. The network only delivered 3Mb/s upload/download, and the ping to it was 350ms... It could hardly handle SSH.
13:55<pharaun>afsdsf: that would work, the bw is pooled :)
13:56<jkwood>pharaun: I think he got that.
13:56<Kenny>Imagine what kind of shock it was to get Linode, that actually delivers what they promise :P
13:56<orudie>where can I register outsied U.S. domains, such as for south american countries
13:56-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
13:56<orudie>such as for Colombia
13:56<amitz>350ms? rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 299.835/372.684/449.833/59.305 ms
13:56<harrumph>i find it truly astonishing that this feature isn't widely implemented in ftp clients. whatever.
13:57<mwalling>godaddy says they have .co i think
13:57<pharaun>harrumph: filezilla?
13:57<afsdsf>guess I could install mod_deflate to save bw as well. Sorry... jsut planning out loud
13:57<KHobbits>each country has local registrys orudie.
13:57<jkwood>afsdsf: Did you catch my comment about the unmetered backend? That would help you quite a bit in the setup you're describing.
13:57<KHobbits>and generally if you go to a more global one you get overcharged
13:57<harrumph>pharaun: they're the only one apparently. gotta ru parallels over here to run it
13:57-!-JSharp [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:57<afsdsf>yes I did. Im aware and using it with my mysql server
13:57<Kenny>KHobbits: There isn't an "American accent" either, but many refer to such anyway - "British accent" most likely refers to a London accent
13:58<KHobbits>i always think it sounds more cornish
13:58<afsdsf>It's just that many providers are baseline double the bw that linode offers already
13:58<jkwood>And yes, optimizing your web server to maximize efficiency would certainly help, naturally.
13:58<Ovron>windows, linux and macosx clients
13:59<pharaun>afsdsf: but do those other providers pool the bw between nodes?
13:59<harrumph>Ovron: oh, awesome, didn't realize, thanks
13:59<afsdsf>no they dont. But you end up spending more
14:00<jkwood>afsdsf: Those other providers also don't offer the quality of service I've come to expect from Linode.
14:01*KHobbits hides linodes sla
14:02<afsdsf>not sure about that. I was with them for 3 years before moving here
14:03<afsdsf>however, I wanted something out of Texas, as they are close to passing a law for anyone accepting orders on a server in tx to have to charge sales tax
14:03<KHobbits>afsdsf, extra bandwidth on that website is 4x what it is on linode :p
14:03<jkwood>Hmm... managed vpses.
14:04<afsdsf>Hope they dont kick me for posting that link.
14:04<hobot>my linode is cheaper hehe
14:04<afsdsf>I'm not bashing Linode at all
14:04<KHobbits>im guessing that means they oversell, and want to RAPE people who actually use it.
14:04-!-jotto [] has joined #linode
14:04<afsdsf>It was quality service. Like I stated, 3 years with them
14:05<pharaun>that's the big thing that i liked about linode, there's no oversell you get exactly what you pay for
14:05<pharaun>oh openvz, yeah oversell is like the rule there
14:06<linbot>New news from forums: Forbidden - You don't have permission to access in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
14:06<afsdsf>yea, openvz is known for allowing overselling. however, they are a reliable company.
14:06<linbot>pharaun: Point (0.50306390, 0.42928804) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17638 of 22428 (π ≈ 3.145710718744426 - 0.004118065154633)
14:06<afsdsf>I do like the xen platform better because of dedicated resources
14:06<jkwood>I like how I've never heard of "the world's best known VPS provider."
14:06<jotto>hey guys, i am serving my site from a dedicated server @ and a linode2gb for testing purposes. although the softlayer cpu is significantly faster and is executing things faster, linode is serving pages 100-200ms faster (this is a rails app served via nginx (all the pages are cached via nginx)), anyone have any idea on how linode could be serving pages faster?
14:06<afsdsf>so it's one of the reasons for switching
14:07<KHobbits>jotto, could be IO
14:07<afsdsf>jotto, linode uses really fast disks
14:07<@caker>jotto: what makaes you think their cpu is faster?
14:07<jotto>all the pages are in memory
14:07<jotto>caker: /proc/cpuinfo
14:07<@caker>jotto: ever hear of the Mhz myth ?
14:08<jotto>no, go on
14:08<jotto>i mean, im confident that the softlayer is legitimately CPU faster, parsing logs and booting ruby instances is faster
14:08<@caker>comparing just clock speed is not enough. There are architectural differences between CPUs that can make one that is slower clock speed actually faster at doing useful things
14:08<Tiven>hey guys, will FreeBSD be really hard for me that im a linux noob and always used ubuntu? :S
14:08<Tiven>i had a linode for some months now, know the linux basics and some stuff but thats it
14:09<hobot>like their caches
14:09<@caker>caches, bus speeds, memory speeds, etc. Mhz is quite meaningless
14:09<pharaun>plus doesn't xeon have faster QPI compared to i7, etc so there's many factors coming in play
14:09<@caker>if anything, I'd say Linode's processors are faster!
14:09<pharaun>xeons woohoo! \o/
14:09<@mikegrb>mmm cake
14:09<Ovron>they also bring cake.
14:10<jotto>i already have several linodes, and ive been on this softlayer for 1 year and during a temporary weekend upgrade, i moved DNS over to linode and was pissed off to see that linode for $80 a month was destroying my softlayer's $220 a month plan
14:10<hobot>I mean the proof is in the puddin
14:10<jkwood>Tiven: If you can and do read, then any OS shouldn't be beyond your grasp.
14:10<Kenny>So, AMD Opteron 3.2GHz x Quad, versus Intel Core i7 3.0GHz x 2, makes for a lot of computation on the intel one, and not Alot on the amd one, 'cause you cant actually multiply by a word.
14:10<pharaun>Tiven: it probably will be a challenge, but if you read mans/etc and have a willing to learn it should be fun :)
14:10<Tiven>i want to make my home server an ipv6 router. my ISP started this ipv6/ipv4 pilot program and want to try it
14:10<jotto>any reason why a 32bit linux distro would serve this stuff faster than a 64-bit?
14:11<Tiven>but i cant find anything about it on ubuntu
14:11<Tiven>only for openbsd, freebsd
14:11<MJCS>jotto: depends on if it is a 32 bit app or not
14:11<Kenny>Tiven: As long as you don't have hardware support issues
14:11<pharaun>jotto: memory usage, pointers/etc are larger, and some apps work better 32bit, etc, again its something that has a ton of varying
14:11<jkwood>In lower-memory environments (less than about 2 gigs), 64-bit will be outperformed by 32-bit, even though the 64-bit code is more efficient and faster.
14:11<Kenny>FreeBSD and hardware incompatibilities aren't fun.
14:11<KHobbits>jotto, if you ever feel like doing some tests, like for example timing how long it would take to compile something on both machines, it would probably make an interesting forum post.
14:12<Kenny>But I managed to set up FreeBSD, only having experience with using OpenSuSE 10 from the GUI, and Ubuntu both text and gui, I survived the setup of a FreeBSD server
14:12<afsdsf>??? has anyone ever moved a linode to a larger linode? What is possible downtime and what would I have to do? Is this all controlled by Linode and done automatically?
14:12<Kenny>And if I can do it, so can you. :P
14:12<jkwood>Heh... Knownhost's top 5 reasons VPSes are better than shared/reseller are actually 6 reasons. Clever.
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14:13<jotto>KHobbits: compiling is definitely happening faster on the softlayer, but the following stack (nginx + rails + memcached) is being served faster from linode. the linode is using 32-bit OS, softlayer is 64-bit. both are ubuntu 10.04 and both servers were auto configured by a chef script
14:13<jkwood>afsdsf: Takes about 3-5 minutes per gb to do the transfer. Each host type only hosts similar nodes (so, 512s on one, 768s on another, etc.)
14:13<@pparadis>afsdsf: if you click the "Resize" tab in the Linode Manager, it's explained step by step there.
14:13<KHobbits>im just suggesting that a proper comparison, with different types of benchmarks would be quite interesting :P
14:13<jkwood>Linode sets up the transfer, but you push the button when you're ready.
14:14<@pparadis>jkwood: no, it's automatic.
14:14<jkwood>pparadis: Ah, that's changed then.
14:14<afsdsf>Ah, so really maybe 30min downtime. Do I need to reconfigure IPs and such?
14:14<@pparadis>hang on
14:14<@pparadis>jkwood: migrations between datacenters still require a ticket.
14:14<@caker>jkwood: typically it's faster than that, btw .. I've been using 1-2m/GB
14:15<Kenny>afsdsf: I resized to double the size, it took few minutes to complete
14:15<jotto>caker any cool announcements coming from linode in the short future
14:15<jkwood>That also has changed. But then, you guys can look at the last time I did a transfer.
14:15<@pparadis>jkwood: we've made some progress there ;)
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14:15<afsdsf>thank pparadis
14:16<afsdsf>what about ips
14:16<afsdsf>will the vps function exactly the same?
14:16<afsdsf>will IP's change?
14:16<@pparadis>everything moves to the new host, including your disk images and IPs.
14:16<Tiven>Kenny are you using freeBSD now?
14:16<KHobbits>afsdsf, when i last did it, there was no visable change at all, other than the linode said "you have unallocated ram and disk space" :P
14:17<Kenny>Tiven: Nah, haven't been using that server for years
14:17<Kenny>Tiven: But it ran for 2-3 years
14:17<Tiven>what are you using on ur servers now?
14:17<KHobbits>oh and the ssh for the lish console
14:17<Kenny>Tiven: Right now my servers are Arch Linux, the likes
14:18<Tiven>i see
14:18<afsdsf>I can just repartition and add the new space on the end of the current disk usage with lost data correct?
14:18<Kenny>Tiven: But FreeBSD is very nice
14:18<Tiven>whats so nice about it ?^^
14:18<@pparadis>afsdsf: :)
14:18<KHobbits>afsdsf, i let linode manager resize it, and had no problems
14:18<Kenny>Tiven: The environment feels neat, it has some cool semi-virtualization security measures you can enable
14:18<Kenny>It's generally geared towards security
14:18<KHobbits>afsdsf, if your worried about your data / downtime, theres another solution
14:19<Kenny>yet I believe it can outperform the linux kernel on some points
14:19<Tiven>it will be headless
14:19<Tiven>maybe some VNC if i need it (not really bug u never know)
14:19<KHobbits>create a new node, and clone the disks you want to transfer :P
14:19<KHobbits>you can move ips between nodes in the same dc.
14:19<afsdsf>hmmm... looks like I have reading to do. I'm ok with 30min downtime for less hassle though
14:21<afsdsf>thanks everyone. I'm feeling better about using Linode to start a web hosting service. I just need to manage bw mostly and I'll be fine.
14:21<Kenny>Tiven: Mine was headless too
14:22<Kenny>Tiven: The semi-virtualization thing is basically a chroot with a separate kernel instance, basically a VM, just using less resources.
14:22<afsdsf>I apologize if I sound retarded. Been hosting websites for 8 years and never really had to deal with limited bw like this
14:22<pharaun>afsdsf: heh its np :)
14:22<Kenny>Tiven: Own network interface, things like that. That way you can sandbox something completely out of the rest of the machine
14:22<Tiven>i see
14:23<afsdsf>OH. what is the limit to domains added to the domain manager?
14:23<Kenny>the package system is basically just a very large directory structure, sorted by categories, with makefiles that download and install iirc
14:23<afsdsf>I've got about 50 entries in there now
14:23<Kenny>there were utilities to deal with it, but it was very basic
14:23<Kenny>no bloat :P
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14:26<WoodWork>eyeos looks cool now.
14:27-!-ktabic [] has joined #linode
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14:27<jkwood>afsdsf: My gut feeling is to say that you can use essentially unlimited domains on your Linode, as many as your web server supports.
14:28<afsdsf>thats what I thought. I'm sure its restricted to point to only linode ips as well
14:30<jkwood>Nope, the dns manager is just a vanilla dns interface. I've got records pointing to the development server for my CS department and my home media server.
14:31<jkwood>That's assuming you use Linode's dns, which I highly recommend.
14:31<afsdsf>I just don't want to have 1,000 domains in there and it be considered abuse
14:31<afsdsf>yes, currently I do... however, their dns DID have an issue last month or so
14:32<jkwood>Yes, that was unfortunate.
14:32-!-LPCA [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:33<afsdsf>it was strange how they all had issues
14:33<afsdsf>I guess sync was lost or something
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14:37<linbot>New news from forums: iptables-restore error in CentOS in Linux Networking <>
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14:38<Tiven>so Kenny it has packages like ubuntu?
14:38<Tiven>repositories and stuff?
14:38-!-afsdsf [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
14:38<Kenny>Tiven: It has repositories, but it's not handled like Ubuntu
14:38<jkwood>I believe they have stated that they know what went wrong and have taken steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.
14:38<Kenny>It's handled by cd'ing into the category, then to the package, and then "make" iirc
14:39<Kenny>then it would download and install
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14:49<InitHello>I wonder if doctors hawkeye and house would get along
14:50<JshWright>InitHello: not well, IMO
14:50<InitHello>better than house and winchester, though
14:50<user1381>This is my first time on an IRC chat
14:50<jkwood>user1381: Welcome.
14:51<InitHello>welcome to irc, user1381. Here is your complimentary bottle of brain bleach.
14:51<JshWright>while they both had substance abuse issues and bucked the system at every opportunity, House is much more willing to take risks with a patient's life (he just get lucky a lot (which is pretty easy to do when you're working from a script))
14:51<Kenny>InitHello: We just call it "Jack Daniels"
14:52<InitHello>what jack daniels does: gets you drunk, tastes ok
14:52<InitHello>what jack daniels does not: go down smooth
14:52<user1381>I am a web designer and have a client who had heard that GoDaddy had slow load times, and wants to see examples of sites on linode to see their loading times. Can anyone help me with this question?
14:52<user1381>By the way, I love House.
14:52<user1381>But, you is Doctor Hawkeye?
14:53<user1381>who is Dr. Hawkeye?
14:53<InitHello>possibly before your time
14:53<JshWright>user1381: well... yes and no... load times are going to vary quite a bit from site to site
14:53<user1381>so, it is true!
14:53<pharaun>user1381: it depends on what each site does, where the site is, and many many other factors
14:54<JshWright>however, it's a very safe bet that the same site on GoDaddy and Linode will load _much_ faster on Linode
14:54<jkwood>user1381: runs PHP on Apache on a Linode.
14:54<JshWright>(if you've configured your server properly)
14:54<Kenny>As I previous customer, I'd happily do a kamikaze bombing of the GoDaddy headquarters, as long as it's sure to bring down the corporation...
14:54<InitHello>user1381: runs on linode/lighttpd
14:54-!-al_6543 [~al_6543@] has joined #linode
14:54<snap-l>Kenny: So you're a satisfied GoDaddy customer?;)
14:54<jkwood>I haven't bothered to optimize any of the components, so it could theoretically be better.
14:55<user1381>He is planning on having a walk-on actor narrating the home page in Flash.
14:55<JshWright>user1381: My wordpress blog, run on my Linode (along with a lot of other sites I run)
14:55*InitHello covers his ears
14:55<InitHello>la la la I can't hear you
14:55<snap-l>user1381: Wow, that's tacky. :)
14:55<jkwood>Also, if you're not familiar, you can use Inspect Element -> Audit in Google Chrome to get an idea of load time and what could be optimized.
14:55<JshWright>user1381: that's a horrible idea...
14:56<InitHello>but I loathe sites with any kind of audio, so my opinion is necessarily biased
14:56-!-saikat [] has quit [Quit: saikat]
14:56-!-jmulder [] has joined #linode
14:56<Kenny>snap-l: I'm the most satisfied GoDaddy customer you will find around here, and I wish to chase Bob Parley or what his name was down, and pull out his internal organs while artificially keeping him alive to maximize the duration of the pain :)
14:56<Kenny>(And this is me in a positive mood.)
14:56<InitHello>Kenny: you're being to merciful
14:56<JshWright>I don't really loathe sites like that, since AdBlock and FlashBlock prevent any of that stuff showing up
14:56<snap-l>Kenny: Oh, I think it would be better if you make it predicament based
14:57<@pparadis>user1381: a walk on actor would cause me to involuntarily whack cmd+w
14:57-!-saikat [] has joined #linode
14:57<Kenny>They deleted the entire content of the server 3 times, without asking for permission or notifying me, they had a downtime of 60% (Yes, 60%), and it took them a week to set the thing up
14:57<snap-l>ie: He has to transfer a domain with privacy manager installed, but the e-mail address for Privacy manager is an old, non-routing e-mail address
14:57-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
14:57<snap-l>and every minute he loses an appendage.
14:57<Kenny>And their maximum bandwidth performance was ONE Mb/s to me in Denmark, and had 400ms ping.
14:57<Kenny>It was even worse than iWeb's network performance
14:59<jkwood>Okay, okay, we get the picture - you guys don't like GoDaddy. Let's can the bashing.
14:59<Kenny>But the fact that they deleted my server's entire content and reprovisioned it multiple times without my consent, even though I had them EXPLICITLY write on my account that no actions must be performed without my consent, due to severe data loss from a random reboot they made, 'cause they thought it would be a good idea to fix my bandwidth issues.
14:59<user1381>Thanks for the tip on the Google Chrome Inspect Element, for load times...I didn't know that. Does only Chrome do that?
14:59<JshWright>user1381: you might also want to check out the speedtest files that linode has available to download from each DC, just to get an idea what the network performance was like
14:59<Kenny>... is completely unacceptable for a hosting company.
14:59<JshWright>user1381: You can use Firebug with YSlow for Firefox
14:59<jkwood>user1381: Yslow for Firefox does something similar.
14:59<hobot>user1381: tht is a webkit thing I think
14:59<jkwood>JshWright: Well played.
14:59<hobot>so safari will do most of that too
15:00-!-a|newkirk[assoc] [] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> <- Would you like to know more?]
15:00<user1381>I have Firebug, Is YSlow something else to download? Or how do I get it?
15:00<jkwood>It's an extension.
15:00<hobot>yslow is just another extension and it plays well with firebug
15:00<JshWright>user1381: install the Firebug and YSlow extensions
15:01<Kenny>user1381: All Webkit based browsers feature the same Inspect Element option. It's implemented by Apple's Webkit framework, so all browsers based on that automatically implements it such as Google Chrome, Chromium, Apple Safari, and some I didn't pay attention to
15:01-!-linville [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:01<user1381>How do I address someone else's comments in the chat?
15:01<JshWright>user1381: hrm?
15:01<hobot>just write their name followed by a colon is a common syntax
15:01<hobot>like JshWright just did
15:01<Kenny>snap-l: How many appendages does he have to lose?
15:01<hobot>if you have a good irc client you can start typing a persons name and press tab and it will complete the name
15:01<JshWright>well, I typed "us<tab>" and it autocompleted the rest
15:02<user1381>JshWright: I am using the IRC Chat via the Linode website and it does not autofill. What IRC Client would you recommend?
15:02<JshWright>user1381: I use irssi
15:03<hobot>what os are you on user1381
15:03<user1381>Windows 7
15:03<hobot>I also use irssi but I would not recommend it for a first time irc
15:03-!-AviMarcus [~avi@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
15:03<JshWright>hobot: why not? it's the IRC client of the future
15:03<sirpengi>I don't know any good irc clients for windows...
15:03<sirpengi>mirc? chatzilla?
15:03<hobot>what I do is download xchat2
15:03<hobot>for windows
15:04<al_6543>Hi, I have a network port question...
15:04<hobot>free and no adware crap in it
15:04<hobot>chatzilla is not a bad idea
15:04<Kenny>see, that's because you're using the word "good" and "windows" in the same sentence, without using any negative modifiers.
15:04<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
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15:04<hobot>its a relative measure
15:04<jkwood>Kenny: >:(
15:04<hobot>like how sometimes you talk in astronomical units
15:04<Kenny>jkwood: :D
15:04<hobot>so we dont have to say quintillions
15:04<sirpengi>Kenny: "don't" isn't a negative? that's a new one
15:04<deejoe>"suck less" <- a recommended way of phrasing it
15:05<al_6543>on a week-old Linode (Ubuntu 10.04 image) running ssh and apache2...
15:05<deejoe>as in "are there any Windows IRC clients that suck less than usual?"
15:05<Kenny>sirpengi: That's a negative modifier for "Knowing", indicating that he does NOT know.
15:05<al_6543>when I nmap it from a remote host, it says ports 22, 80, 554, and 7070 are open...
15:06<Kenny>The sentence cannot turn positive as long as the word good is not inverted in the sentence :)
15:06<al_6543>22 and 80 I would expect... why would 554 and 7070 show up???
15:06<JshWright>al_6543: `netstat -l` will tell you what's listening
15:06<Kenny>That sentence used very bad grammatical practices as well as significant amount of tautology in that sentence. :)
15:06<jkwood>554 would make sense if you're serving streaming media.
15:06<hobot>real player?
15:06<hobot>this article mentions boths ports
15:06<jkwood>Well, rtsp could be anything.
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15:07<Kenny>7070 is "ARCP", whatever that is
15:07<al_6543>when I netstat I only see 22 and 80... so why would a remote nmap show 554 and 7070?
15:08<ambackstrom>Hey folks. A while back, Linode was part of some promotion where you paid a fee and got to trial half a dozen web services. Does anyone remember which website offered that deal?
15:08<user1381>hobot: Thanks for your IRC recommendation and link
15:08<jkwood>Wait... isn't 7070 lish?
15:08<Kenny>jkwood: lish doesn't run on the linode itself o.o
15:09<jkwood>Hmm... I'm surely misremembering.
15:09<hobot>no problem user1381
15:09<Kenny>and definitely not on tcp/ip, otherwise it wouldn't work well the times I completely trashed all network connectivity
15:09<sirpengi>ambackstrom: appsumo?
15:09<Karrde>al_6543: firewall fun in between your scanner and your linode; msot likely on your end?
15:09<hobot>also user1381 try /nick username to change your nick to something more memorable
15:09<Karrde>al_6543: want to share your node's IP so I can scan from another node?
15:09<user1381>sirpengi: Thanks for your IRC recommendation of Chatzilla
15:09-!-linville [] has joined #linode
15:10<al_6543>sure, Karrde... it's
15:10-!-user1381 is now known as rochelle
15:10<rochelle>hobot: Thanks for telling me how to change my name.
15:11<JshWright>Lish listens on ports 22, 443, and 2200
15:11<Karrde>only the two services
15:12<hobot>no problemo
15:12<JshWright>(and it runs on the host, not the node itself)
15:12<Karrde>looks like a Newark node like mine
15:16<ambackstrom>sirpengi: that was it, thanks a ton :D
15:16-!-rochelle [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
15:16-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:17<sirpengi>I've been so helpful today
15:17<sirpengi>I'll need to offset that by being snarky for a few hours
15:18<Kenny>sirpengi: That's how I do it. I should start being a bit more helpful while the ops are on though, so they'll see the non-snarky side of me too.
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15:22<al_6543>Karrde, I repeated your nmap (same syntax) from my home PC... still shows open 554 and 7070...
15:23<mwalling>al_6543: your isp might be doing naughty things
15:23<al_6543>but, unlike yours, it takes 15 hops to get there... so I guess it's "something" in the middle... BTW, FIOS is my isp
15:23<mwalling>yeah, dont trust verizon
15:25<al_6543>anyway, thanks... guess i won't worry about it
15:25<Kenny>I, curious as I am, would attempt to traceroute using port 554... See where you end. :P
15:25<linbot>New news from forums: [SOLVED] Forbidden - You don't have permission to access in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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15:27<Marius>power is back
15:27<Marius>desktop is bsod'ing
15:28<Kenny>Marius: Well, we all know the solution to that.
15:29<@Perihelion>The solution is to remove Marius
15:29<Kenny>But it's a 3 month long ritual, requiring 30 OEM Windows licenses, a bulls horn, a universal remote, 30 gallons of milk, as well a the Holy Print of Linux 2.6 Sourcecode, and 20 seaturtles that will perform a ritual dance
15:29<Kenny>or remote Marius
15:29<pharaun>I think i prefer peri's solution, its simpler :)
15:29<@Perihelion>And is better for humanity.
15:33<al_6543>Kenny, "traceroute -p 554" leads to owned by Linode (if I'm interpreting things correctly)
15:34<Kenny>al_6543: Try with the -T option, otherwise -p isn't really connect port
15:35<Kenny>but initial icmp sequence value
15:38<al_6543>Kenny: interesting... (with -T option) both ports 554 and 7070 show just 2 hops...
15:39-!-Zeus1 [] has joined #linode
15:39<al_6543>Kenny: 1. Wireless_Broadband_Router.home (
15:39<purrdeta>lolz... Kenny, pharaun, my Japanese filenames are squares again
15:39<Kenny>al_6543: A hint, I assume? ;)
15:39<purrdeta>And I *literally* changed nothing from last time we talked :P
15:39<Kenny>purrdeta: Hahahah...
15:39<al_6543>Kenny: 2. "my Linode"
15:40<Kenny>al_6543: Yes, your linode is accessible from the internet on
15:40<Kenny>and is named Wireless_Broadband_Router.home.
15:40<Kenny>.home is btw also a very common, and free, TLD. *totally*.
15:40-!-smed [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:41<cdlu>just begging for a south park joke...
15:41<Kenny>cdlu: Bring it.
15:41-!-smed [] has joined #linode
15:41<cdlu>/kill Kenny OMG
15:42-!-linville [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:42<@mikegrb>cdlu: doit
15:42<@mikegrb>cdlu: tj said it's okay
15:42<Kenny>mikegrb: !!!!!
15:42<cdlu>mikegrb, I'd have to file a complaint with myself.
15:42<Kenny>You're REAL!!!!
15:42<@mikegrb>cdlu: you could put a good word in for yourself
15:43-!-ambackstrom [] has left #linode []
15:43<jkwood>cdlu: I'll vote for you.
15:44<Kenny>Nivex: Don't make me buy the new iLove 5. :<
15:44<@Perihelion>I second this Kenny killing movement
15:45<Kenny>I multiply the killing Kenny movement with 5√-1
15:45*purrdeta thirds
15:45<purrdeta>even though he is cool
15:45<Kenny>thereby making the movement complex, and non-transferrable to real life scenarios.
15:46<Nivex>Linode's own St. Valentine's Massacre?
15:46<pharaun>Nivex: its not really a massacre if its one person ;)
15:46<jkwood>Kenny: You just turned it into an iMovement. Congratulations.
15:46<Nivex>pharaun: it always starts as one person
15:46<Kenny>jkwood: Dammit, you beat me to that one.
15:47-!-laser` [] has joined #linode
15:47<linbot>New news from forums: [SOLVED] Need to figure out why Linode is crashing in General Discussion <>
15:47<jkwood>pharaun, being deaf, is not used to iMovements.
15:47<Kenny>Oh he is, he uses them through his iPad
15:48<hobot>well he has imovements just not in the way you think
15:48<pharaun>Nivex: true dat
15:48<jkwood>We'll have to send him a book on tape.
15:48<pharaun>jkwood: no send me a book in braille, after all a bunch of people think i can read it!
15:48<hobot>man really
15:49<hobot>ignorance knows no bounds
15:49<pharaun>hobot: yeah, happens from time to time, i'll request a transcript of something and people will bring me a ring-bind with the transcript in braille
15:49<pharaun>or airplane emergency papers, etc all in braille
15:49<metaperl>Man, I've always wanted Hazardous electrical shock from damaged electrical cords as a product feature -
15:50<Kenny>hobot: iGnorance?
15:50<@Perihelion>Haha so people assume that since you can't hear you must not be able to see either?
15:50<Kenny>pharaun: confusion and amusement comes from such things.
15:51-!-linville [] has joined #linode
15:51<@Perihelion>Do you look at them angrily when they do this?
15:51<@Perihelion>You should glare at them...look deep into their eyes
15:51<pharaun>Perihelion: something like that -_- and haha eh, it depends :) really i'm pretty used to it
15:51<@Perihelion>I'd have too much fun with that
15:52<pharaun>one friend once yelled at someone who did that, she said "what did you expect me to do with this, read the fecking thing with my ear?!"
15:52<hobot>I would definitely just start scrawling notes on the really expensive braille
15:52<pharaun>hobot: its not like a blind person would notice or care :V
15:52<hobot>unless I indent it
15:53<jkwood>Yes, that seems perfectly logical.
15:53<pharaun>the ones i've seen are usually plastic or really thick paper
15:53<Kenny>They're not always that expensive... I had a braille typewriter once, wasn't that expensive to get :P
15:53<@Perihelion>Unless you write by jabbing the writing instrument into the paper a few times it shouldn't be a problem
15:53<Kenny>Not sure why I had it, never used it either
15:53<Kenny>Not even sure it was mine, come to think of it... huh...
15:53<jkwood>Oh, indent the paper, not the text.
15:53<Kenny>It worked though?
15:53<hobot>well it was going to be more of a relief drawing
15:53<pharaun>honestly i'm not quite for sure exactly how people mentally connect deafness with needing/being able to read braille?
15:53*jkwood finds non-sequiturs in everything
15:53<hobot>a black bear at midnight on the dark side of the moon
15:56-!-al_6543 [~al_6543@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:56-!-Xobb [~xobb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:56<Kenny>is a happy bear at midnight on the dark side of the moon
15:57<Kenny>for it is stealthy
15:57-!-Xobb [~xobb@] has joined #linode
15:57<linbot>New news from forums: Heartbit + Pacemaker + drbd error in Linux Networking <>
16:00<pharaun>have any of you guys ever seen a captioned movie in the theater?
16:01<Kenny>captioned, as in, with subtitles? Yes
16:01-!-JSharp [] has joined #linode
16:01-!-bigjocker [] has joined #linode
16:02<Kenny>Seeing I am Danish, and not all Danes are well trained in understanding native English (English classes tend to be poor, even though we take great pride in them... *sigh*), movies are either subbed or dubbed
16:02<Deezire>.. mother fucker.
16:02<Kenny>dubbed for children, subbed for adults
16:02<Deezire>Why does linode forums store password in clear text?
16:02<Kenny>Deezire: I am not fucking your mother, no.
16:03<Kenny>pharaun's mother, I will not comment on.
16:03<pharaun>Kenny: ah i see, was just wondering
16:03<Kenny>Deezire: ... *huh*?
16:03<Deezire>I just got my own password mailed to my self, you'd think that a company of linodes caliber wouldnt do that
16:03<Kenny>pharaun: We should've told you earlier. But...
16:03<Kenny>I am your (new) father.
16:04<Kenny>Deezire: Emailing it, and storing it plaintext aren't always the same :P
16:04<pharaun>Deezire: isn't the forum phpbb?
16:05-!-paszo2008 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:05<Deezire>it is
16:05<pixl>I thought that phpbb used
16:05<Deezire>so they must have made some modification to it
16:06<pharaun>Kenny: on the password thing - usually 1) you would salt/hash it and put it in the db, and you can't reverse a hash, otherwise its not a hash, hence most password reset thing will generate new passwords and email that to you
16:06<Deezire>They will send you a new, temporary password
16:06<Deezire>that is the only sane way to do it
16:06<pharaun>^^^ this
16:06<Deezire>why on earth would you even want to store peoples password?
16:07<hobot>because you wanna get owned
16:07<Kenny>pharaun: WHat if they hashed it after they send it?
16:07<pharaun>Kenny: what? 0_o that won't achieve nothing
16:07<Kenny>pharaun: Yes, stored hash, sent cleartext :P
16:08<pharaun>Kenny: no no you don't understand, the password is stored in the database as a hash+salt, you cannot reverse the hashing process
16:08<Deezire>Kenny: why would i even want my own password emailed to me? I KNOW my password :p
16:08<jkwood>Not *entirely* true, but accurate enough for day-to-day use.
16:09-!-LPCA_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:09<pharaun>jkwood: on the cannot reverse hashing?
16:09<sirpengi>because you want to hack into your users' other accounts?
16:09<mwalling>Deezire: its phpbb 2, not 3. iirc, 2 stored in plaintext
16:09<Kenny>pharaun: see, i know that, but when you just create the password, you don't send it salted and hashed. The server could email you it pre-processed, then start processing it
16:09<Kenny>and after that, it cannot be recreated
16:09<Kenny>this is highly unrealistic
16:09<mwalling>Deezire: just another reason to use one password per site :)
16:09<Deezire>mwalling: good thing i use a "non secure" password for stuff like this, but still.
16:10<Kenny>but just saying it's possible. :D
16:10<Deezire>yeah, i should start just using md5 (something) + site url as salt
16:10<mwalling>Deezire: i use keepass
16:10<pharaun>same here, keepass ftw
16:10<mwalling>(and keepassx and the droid keepass impl)
16:10<Deezire>a friend of mine wrote a little bash script for it
16:10<pharaun>imho keepass is the way to do it
16:11<jkwood>pharaun: Any mathematical algorithm can be reversed if it can be calculated. The point is to make it very difficult to do so.
16:11<Deezire>well, i have keychain, no need for another way of storing passwords. :p
16:11<pharaun>jkwood: oh i know, i was speaking of day-to-day use :) and you can brute force it, etc
16:11<Kenny>I just use insanely many password and variations, and memorize them all
16:11<mwalling>Deezire: yeah, but does your keychain work on osx, windows, and android?
16:12<Kenny>But of course, not every can memorize a hundred passwords
16:12<Deezire>Not really, but android supports ssh keys, so close enough for me
16:12<pharaun>Kenny: just use keepass, i memorize a few commonly used password + long password for the database, problem solved, tired of forgetting passwords
16:12<InitHello>JshWright: are you accepting new memcached instances?
16:13<Kenny>pharaun: How's the multiplatform support?
16:14<pharaun>Kenny: there's keepass, keepassx, and android keepass, and um maybe few others impl that uses the same db
16:14<Kenny>Plus, I generally dislike having more daemons to handle things, I'm more paranoid than that... I'm paranoid enough to use 25 character passwords for my 7k private key, used to login to my *only locally accessible server*. xD
16:14<pharaun>Kenny: its not a daemon, its a password db, you open it up, get password out, paste it somewhere, close it
16:15<Kenny>pharaun: Oh, sounds bothersome, it's not just a autofill thing? :<
16:15<Deezire>huh, im very skeptical of something that's hosted on an .info domain :p
16:15<Kenny>Yeah, I type fast enough to beat the time it takes to do that, hahah :P
16:15<Deezire>espessially with my password
16:15<pharaun>i don't trust autofill, and i think there actually is some addons with autofill actually
16:15<mwalling>Deezire: its oss, build it
16:15<InitHello>keepass++, I would indeed like to retain ownership of my ass
16:15<Deezire>still, does not add any features that keychain does not already have
16:16<pharaun>Deezire: there's also keepassx, its on *.org :p
16:16<arsasson>InitHello, haha
16:17<pharaun>Kenny: ex keepassx runs on windows, osx, linux so its crossplatform alright
16:17<pharaun>Kenny: keepass is mono i believe
16:17<Kenny>pharaun: Cool... If it weren't because I have photographic memory when it comes to sequences I need. :P
16:18<mwalling>pharaun: 2.x is .NET, 1.x is $SOMETHING_ELSE
16:18<Kenny>... keepass is a "NO MOTHEREFFIN' WAY, GET IT OFF ME, AAAAARGH" then.
16:18<pharaun>mwalling: yeah you're right, i was thinking of keepass 2.x
16:18<mwalling>pharaun: i use the 1.x db
16:19<pharaun>mwalling: ah, same, but i use keepassx as the front-end, it uses the 1.x db
16:19-!-linville [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:20<mwalling>ditto at home
16:20<mwalling>android app just got support for 2x
16:21<pharaun>ah, i outta to try keepass on my blackberry, would be nice for on the go.
16:21-!-LPCA_ [] has joined #linode
16:21-!-WhoNeedszzz [] has joined #linode
16:21<WhoNeedszzz>hey all
16:21<pharaun>you need zzz
16:22<mwalling>pharaun: on android it loads up the pastebuffer with your username and password for you
16:22<pharaun>oh nice
16:22<HIghoS>pharaun: Keypass is definitely nice. Use it.
16:24<WhoNeedszzz>So i've noticed my bandwidth usage is quite high. I have discovered it's from DDOS attempts on my named instance. I have deployed a script that watches the log and blocks IPs that attempt a DDOS. The script is working, but my bandwidth usage is still too high. Any ideas what it could be?
16:24<pharaun>HIghoS: keepass? i haven't heard of keypass
16:24<HIghoS>pharaun: Oh man, my mind is all over the place.
16:24<Deezire>WhoNeedszzz: DDoS? Have you enraged some teenagers?
16:25<WhoNeedszzz>I'm part of OpenNIC and some people are trying to shut us down
16:25<Deezire>Then most likely not someone attempting to DDoS you :p
16:25<pharaun>aha that group, heard of them
16:25<Deezire>why would someone want to shut you down? :p
16:25<WhoNeedszzz>They keep trying to resolve with +ED ANY
16:26<WhoNeedszzz>Deezire: Beats me but that's not what i'm worrying about right now
16:26<Deezire>you have just magically made up some TDLs?
16:26-!-jmulder [] has quit [Quit: jmulder]
16:26<WhoNeedszzz>TLDs you mean?
16:26<WhoNeedszzz>Not magically
16:27<Kenny>It's easy, it's a separate DNS server
16:27<Kenny>Anyone can make TLD's
16:27<Kuboing>.fur? really?
16:27<Kenny>as long as people use your server :>
16:27<Kuboing>and you *didn't* expect a ddos?
16:27<Deezire>yeah, but just utter stupidity imho
16:27<Kenny>... lol, yeah, .fur...
16:27<pharaun>well isn't there discussions for opening up the TLD's
16:27<Kenny>Deezire: Nah, some of the TLD restrictions are stupid
16:27-!-jmulder [] has joined #linode
16:27<Kenny>Deezire: As well as the monopoly
16:27<Deezire>Kenny: Yeah, but just making stuff up is even more silly.
16:27<Deezire>"oh, you want to access my site, well add these nameservers!"
16:28<Kenny>Deezire: Well, I *NEED* i.fuckingrockatthis as domain.
16:28<WhoNeedszzz>So no one actually addressed my issue...
16:28<Kenny>No, the point of it is clearly wide adoption
16:28<Deezire>Sounds more like someone found out "HEY THIS BIND STUFF IS COOL, WE CAN MAKE IT RESOLV .PORN!" and went for it.
16:28<Kenny>WhoNeedszzz: Sorry, we got caught up in debate :P
16:28<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: problem is, you can block the attackers on your machine, but by then, the data has passed the meter
16:29<pharaun>couldn't he nullroute himself but thats going to take him offline tho
16:29<Deezire>Shut down your vm and it should magically disapear
16:30<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: if you can absorb it, absorb it, otherwise you might want to raise a ticket. linode *might* be able to do something to mitigate it for you... maybe
16:30<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
16:30<InitHello>Kenny: can I offer you instead?
16:30<mwalling>damnit, i always get !community and !ops backwards
16:30<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
16:30<@Perihelion>WhoNeedszzz: We can null route stuff
16:31<WhoNeedszzz>Perihelion: Meaning?
16:31<@Perihelion>We can't mitigate it any other way, and if it becomes service affecting we may have to anyway
16:31<@Perihelion>WhoNeedszzz: Meaning we'd prevent any traffic from reaching it
16:31<pharaun>problem with null routing is it basically "take" that ip offline for you
16:31<pharaun>aka no one can reach you anymore
16:31<WhoNeedszzz>Yeah that's a problem
16:32<pharaun>other alternative is to just absorb it, which is what the large providers do
16:32<Kenny>InitHello: I get an idea... What about splitting words into multiple seconds of domains, and then make it easier to get the domain that way, while maintaining the easy rememberability? (That's a word)... Say, for "I don't know", a knowledge database? or, maybe,, which could have recipies?
16:32<Deezire>are you the only one seeing the traffic?
16:32<Kenny>This idea must be completely new and unique.
16:32<Kenny>I shall patent it.
16:32-!-darkbeholder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:32<InitHello>Kenny: it totally is, you are a
16:32-!-jimcooncat_ [] has joined #linode
16:32<WhoNeedszzz>Deezire: Was that directed to me?
16:33<WhoNeedszzz>pharaun: What do you mean "absorb"?
16:33<InitHello>I shall now go forth and register
16:33<pharaun>WhoNeedszzz: aka is anyone else in opennic seeing this?
16:33<pharaun>WhoNeedszzz: basically having *MORE* bandwidth than your attackers do
16:33<WhoNeedszzz>pharaun: Yes
16:34-!-hfb3 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:34<Tiven>i went to install fbsd
16:34-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
16:34<Tiven>after spending 40 minutes trying to find a vga cable in my house, i finally found it.. behind the computers :S
16:35<WhoNeedszzz>So what am i to do?
16:35<JshWright>bandwidth sucking DDoS's are pretty much impossible to stop from your node
16:35<Kenny>That is my name. Usage means that you conform to the Terms of Usage, and will pay the monthly fee of $2590.92, for a minimum of the contractually bound 12 years.
16:35<InitHello>sounds like my experience hunting for an hdmi cable
16:35-!-linville [] has joined #linode
16:35<Tiven>then i went to install it and could only see 50% of the screen on the partition selection menu so i couldnt continue installing
16:35<pharaun>WhoNeedszzz: either absorb or request it to be null-routed
16:35<Kenny>Tiven: Well, huh.
16:35<WhoNeedszzz>Null-routing is not an option for me. I need my node running
16:35-!-mathew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:35<pharaun>then you are going to have to absorb it
16:36<JshWright>stopping stuff like that requires defenses outside your node, which linode doesn't offer (and they're _very_ expensive at the providers that do offer that sort of stuff)
16:36<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: null routes are for IPs
16:36<Tiven>[23:35] <InitHello> sounds like my experience hunting for an hdmi cable << haha yah it was SO annoying
16:36<Kenny>Tiven: Look for issues with your graphics card.
16:36<pharaun>mwalling: yes it is but i mean is WhoNeedszzz can request linode to nullroute him
16:36<Tiven>well... its an integrated one
16:36<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: but yeah, you're in a sucky situation. you're either screwed in bandwidth bill, or screwed by having to change ips, and hope you dont get found by them again
16:36<Kenny>Tiven: Still :P
16:37<Kyhwana>if you get null routed, your ipv6 tunnel goes away too, btw.
16:37<Kenny>Whether you have to search for GMA950 or GTX580 doesn't matter :P
16:37<Tiven>well, isnt it weird though? its just console
16:37<Kyhwana>Or if you have native v6, and it was just a v4 DDOS..
16:37<WhoNeedszzz>Kyhwana: Linode provides an ipv6 tunnel?
16:37<Tiven>all other console menus appear great, only the partition selection looks like crap
16:37<pharaun>WhoNeedszzz: and if the whole opennic group is being attacked then... they are probably going to find you again pretty quickly
16:37<pharaun>WhoNeedszzz: no HE
16:37<Kyhwana>WhoNeedszzz: nope, but if you had one through HE/sixxs/etc
16:37<Deezire>Seeing that the traffic is not enough to bring down a small linode i think i wont be nullrouted just now
16:37<Kenny>Tiven: Yes, lol, that DOES sound odd.
16:37<WhoNeedszzz>oh right i use an HE tunnel
16:38<jkwood>JshWright: You forgot to mention that outside "protection" doesn't generally work that well, either.
16:38<@Perihelion>We won't null route it unless it starts to impact other customers or you request that it be null routed.
16:38<Tiven>what happens if a linode host gets ddos'd
16:38<Tiven>or it cant? :D
16:38<straterra>They could null route the inbound data to the host
16:39<straterra>That wouldn't be a big deal at all
16:39<straterra>LISH may die..but the VMs would still communicate as they null route based on IP, not MAC
16:39<Kenny>Tiven: They'll disconnect the fibers until they stop.
16:40<WhoNeedszzz>Kenny: That would bring down others
16:40<Kenny>But it won't be the datacenters fibers. It will be THE fibers. They'll just temporarily shut down the internet.
16:40<Kenny>WhoNeedszzz: I know, it was a joke, don't worry. :)
16:40<Tiven>ddos is so unfair :(
16:40<Kenny>But it would be odd if they DDoS'd a Linode *host* anyway
16:40<Kenny>instead of a *node*
16:41<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: your client should support a /ignore command... apply liberally to channel. :)
16:41<@Perihelion>Ignoring ALL from mwalling
16:41<Tiven>mwalling why u ignore kenny
16:42<Kenny>I actually do work my best to help whenever I can - in this case, however, I don't have anything to add, so I replied to Tiven's questions instead :<
16:42<JshWright>Tiven: likely for the same reason I do... a _very_ low signal-to-noise ratio
16:42<Kenny>JshWright's SnR is actually negative.
16:43<Tiven>i've seen screenshot of a -1 SNR on a netgear2000
16:44<Tiven>and it was working :>
16:44<Kenny>Oh well, let the children play with their ignore commands. They do nothing but whine about signal-to-noise ratios, while we others add to the current questions and debates.
16:45<Kenny>Tiven: Yes, I love SnR's that give better signal than the source has.
16:45<Karrde>herpa derpa
16:45<jkwood>Kenny: If this were a debate channel instead of a support channel, that might help.
16:46<pharaun>I don't think most people mind some discussion/etc but after a certain point it just annoys some people
16:46<Kenny>jkwood: Debating which solution is the best, debating the cause of an issue, or debating the status of Linode are all debates relevant to Linode support.
16:46<Kenny>Just sayin' :)
16:46*mwalling points out that OFTC has a network sponsored offtopic channel in #moocows
16:46<JshWright>especially when you're walking over the conversation of someone actually trying to get help
16:47<Kenny>pharaun: I know, I usually form an "offtopic" channel when enough users go offtopic in a channel that the ops start banning.
16:47-!-after [~beef@] has joined #linode
16:47<pharaun>WhoNeedszzz: anyway, have you decided how you are going to approach this, i am curious
16:47<@pparadis> ______________________
16:47<@pparadis>< #moocows is awesome! >
16:47<@pparadis> ----------------------
16:47<@pparadis> \ ^__^
16:47<@pparadis> \ (oo)\_______
16:47<@pparadis> (__)\ )\/\
16:47<@pparadis>| ||
16:47*jkwood points out that OFTC has a non-network sponsored on-topic channel in #stayontopicorthebeatingswillcontinue
16:47<after>Hi. I am trying to downgrade my linode. I have a linode 768 and I want to resize it to 512 - I have 744 MB of disk space used, but it says that I am over the limit allowed by the 512 plan
16:48<InitHello>Kenny: ironically, complaining about the SNR contributes to the N part
16:48<Kenny>pparadis: You're not in moocows. >:(
16:48<jkwood>after: You'll need to resize your disk images using the Linode control panel first.
16:48<after>ok thanks guys
16:48<Kenny>InitHello: But it's negative, so technically that would make it approach 1, and therefore move closer to a clean signal
16:49<pharaun>after: doh, sorry, this one would be better ->
16:49<Kenny>And even then, there is no noise in my messages. It's clean signals, Just sometimes irrelevant signals.
16:49<pharaun>hobot: hah nice one
16:49<@pparadis>pharaun: the resize guide has a link to that too ;)
16:49<pharaun>pparadis: doh
16:49<after>oh yeah now it makes sense
16:49<@pparadis>pharaun: so you were right on target :)
16:49-!-ojacobson [~ojacobson@] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
16:49<pharaun>pparadis: i try :)
16:51<WhoNeedszzz>pharaun: I edited my script to be more aggressive in blocking faster to absorb less
16:51<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: you're still blocking post-metering
16:52<JshWright>mwalling: but if the attack is to get him to send a lot of data in reply, then it's helpful if he stops replying faster
16:52<Deezire>And you're using more cpu/disk io than just mitigating it
16:52<JshWright>the initial request still get through, but he won't spend at much replying to them
16:52<mwalling>JshWright: true, i forgot about return traffic
16:52<WhoNeedszzz>it's the return traffic that is high
16:52<Deezire>just shut down the nameserver for a few minutes?
16:52<pharaun>isn't there some edge cases where the return traffic is like 10 to 1 so... yeah
16:53<WhoNeedszzz>Deezire: Wouldn't do anything. They constantly try
16:53-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
16:53<pharaun>in his case i think the filtering will help for the time being
16:53<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: is this one of those stupid DNS ddoses where they send you lots of small queries that return large answers?
16:53<Deezire>On another note, who are "they"
16:53-!-linville [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:53-!-after [~beef@] has quit []
16:53<pharaun>mwalling: yeah sounds like it
16:53<Tiven>wont that be useless as everything is cached?
16:53-!-karstensrage [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:53<pharaun>Tiven: that depends on the ttl
16:53<WhoNeedszzz>mwalling: Yes. They query +ED ANY
16:53<Tiven>oh well
16:54<Tiven>whats the lowest TTL? and who uses it?
16:54<pharaun>Tiven: and if they query the machine directly it will hammer you
16:54<mwalling>WhoNeedszzz: ah, then yeah, what you're doing should help a lot. i figured it was one of those things where they just try to cram the pipe full with crap on their own
16:54<Tiven>so it is useless ^^
16:54-!-karstensrage [] has joined #linode
16:54<WhoNeedszzz>mwalling: Luckily not
16:55<pharaun>WhoNeedszzz: \o/ indeed, curious what kind of bw are you getting inbound?
16:55-!-smed [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:55<WhoNeedszzz>30.3 GB in
16:55<WhoNeedszzz>199 GB out
16:55<pharaun>oh boy
16:55-!-smed [] has joined #linode
16:56<Tiven>WhoNeedszzz what kind of site do you host?
16:56<pharaun>1:6.6 ratio, oh boy :p
16:56<Tiven>im wondering why u're getting ddos
16:56<pharaun>Tiven: he's hosting an alternative dns resolver/service
16:56<Tiven>and people ddos him
16:57<Ovron>there's an endless stream of assholes in the world
16:57<pharaun>Tiven: well some of the dns query stuff are stupidly easy to ddos because of the 1:6+ ratio of inbound to outbound
16:57-!-Wulfgar [] has joined #linode
16:57<Tiven>dude seriously im against any type of mocking or anything like that especially irl
16:57<pharaun>Tiven: so all you need to do is spam bunch of small queries and boom, eats up the outbound
16:57<Ovron>mwalling: pretty much sums it up
16:57<Tiven>but if it was justified, i could maybe understand it a bit
16:57<Kenny>Tie: Free TLD's, basically. People don't like that.
16:57<Tiven>but an open project? that helps others
16:58<Kenny>mwalling: PSH, 4chan would NEVER use DDoS!
16:58<Kenny>COMPLETELY implausible!
16:58-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has left #linode []
16:58<pharaun>Kenny: go into anon and wear a t-shirt that says "plz ddos me" and we'll see about that
16:58<InitHello>isn't 4chan that humanitarian organization?
16:59<InitHello>disaster relief, orphanages, pro bono hosting, that kind of thing?
16:59<Kenny>pharaun: I'm a part-time /b/-tard - trust me, it was a joke.
16:59<Kenny>InitHello: 4chan is an image board, that hosts the only successful digitalization of true chaos.
16:59<pharaun>Kenny: ah we now know what your origin were
17:00<InitHello>Kenny: ...
17:00*InitHello really needs a sarcasm font for his client
17:00<bob2>InitHello: outstanding
17:00*Daevien hands InitHello a cattleprod. works better here
17:01<Kenny>InitHello: I got the sarcasm, but I felt like adding an extra thick layer of sarcasm.
17:01<pharaun>nah you need SarcMark!
17:01<bob2>InitHello: my only suggestion would be to mispell 'pro bono' as 'pro boner'
17:01<InitHello>oh, ok
17:01<Ovron>apt-get install ttf-sarcasm
17:01<InitHello>bob2: that sounds like an adult entertainment job description
17:02<InitHello>now hear this: the W3C has approved an official sarcasm tag for all HTML variants. The tag name is <InitHello>. If you see <InitHello> on a line, you can be sure the subsequent statement is sarcastic.
17:02<linbot>(#1) RTFM, (#2) urmom is *always* relevant, (#3) SelfishMan is the resident arrogant prick, (#4) mwalling is the resident asshole (#5) jkwood is utterly insane, (#5) HoopyCat is the resident <redacted>
17:02-!-LPCA_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02<@Perihelion>Why are there two #5s
17:02<Ovron>does rule 5 make utterly insane as well? :(
17:02<linbot>Kenny: Yo mommas got so much feature creep, she supports regexps, themes, and Twitter. (772:6/0) [momur]
17:03<Daevien>hmm, surprising you may fidn that position at least officially, still open
17:03<@Perihelion>Which one of you noobs failed at linbot?
17:03<Ovron>make me *
17:03-!-snobby [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:03<mwalling>Perihelion: a second label preceeding a statment will overwrite the original statement
17:03<Tiven>so i can say anything i want, add urmom in the line and be relevant ?
17:04<Daevien>it works for most of the channel
17:04<InitHello>so does urmom
17:04<Daevien>work implies payment
17:04<@Perihelion>The hell it does.
17:04<Kenny>So does urmom?
17:04-!-Dylan [] has joined #linode
17:04<InitHello>I've done plenty of work sans payment
17:05<InitHello>hello, Dylan
17:05<Kenny>InitHello: Hey, you're not making it easy to pull urmom jokes here.
17:05*Perihelion gbtw o/
17:05<Daevien>InitHello: just cause you are gullible & Perihelion fell for jed's tricks, doesnt' mean my point is invalid :p
17:05<InitHello>Kenny: I'm sure you'll rise to the challenge
17:05<Kenny>So will urmom.
17:06<Dylan>On linode, can you dynamically add ram and CPU for say 5 days with out upgrading plans?
17:06<@pparadis>sure, see the "Extras" tab.
17:06<Daevien>ram yes, cpu no
17:06<@pparadis>and yeah, not CPU. all linodes have access to four cores.
17:07<Daevien>o/ pparadis
17:07<Tiven></3 nginx
17:07<@pparadis>Dylan: adding RAM still requires a reboot to use it, however.
17:07<Kenny>Dylan: The smaller the plan, the more users are sharing the CPU. Getting more CPU requires you to move another host with bigger linodes, or just being lucky enough that no one are using CPU
17:07<@pparadis>Tiven: that's no good.
17:07<Tiven>im just kidding :D
17:07<Tiven><3 nginx
17:08<Tiven>did i ever tell u that i fixed php and rewrite and wordpress and everything pparadis
17:08<@pparadis>Tiven: \o/
17:08<tyler>wow, linode is super anal about getting new IPs now.
17:08<tyler>that was quite annoying
17:08<thegodlikehobo>hehe, anal.
17:08<Tiven>its been like this for months
17:08<Kyhwana>tyler: moar ipv6
17:08<Kyhwana>They have to hoard their v4s now
17:09<Tiven>what about v6
17:09<Dylan>I see, well we are not currently using linode so i can go to the EXTRA tabs, but on our current host, we use a mid level package, but when we run sales and promos, the server gets hammered to crawel, so it would be nice to have a host whould allow us to temp upgrade.
17:09<Tiven>will they give them for free?
17:09<tyler>Apparently, they are going to check the new IP to make sure I have a SSL website like I said I do
17:09<Kenny>I want v5.
17:09<tyler>in 14 days
17:09<linbot>Available extras: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP addresses: $ 1 per address/month. To add extras, visit the Extras tab on a Linode.
17:09<Kyhwana>Tiven: I imagine you'll get a /56 or /64 subnet?
17:09<@Perihelion>We've always done that
17:09<tyler>No, I used to be able to order IPs from the control panel
17:09<Tiven>Kyhwana rly?
17:09<@Perihelion>up to 2
17:09<tyler>not have to put in a ticket
17:09<@Perihelion>If you requested more we checked
17:10<Kyhwana>Tiven: don't see why not!
17:10<thegodlikehobo>i use my ipv6 /64 to assign an ip to each cell in my body
17:10<tyler>yes, I have 1 IP on this linode
17:10<tyler>when I wanted to add a second, I had to put in a ticket
17:10<Tiven>thegodlikehobo you dont use v6 in your organism
17:10<Tiven>more like v12
17:10<thegodlikehobo>i had a v8 this morning
17:10<Kenny>thegodlikehobo: You could, you have an /64 for each 27 mm^2 you use of earths surface area
17:10<linbot>New news from forums: Zend Optimizer in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
17:10<@Perihelion>Fly like a v6?
17:11<@pparadis>so so fly
17:11<Ovron>Perihelion: oh no
17:11<Ovron>that song, my head, no
17:11<pharaun>Zeus1: the next-next generation of ip :)
17:11<@Perihelion>You're welcome
17:11<Zeus1>v8 is on the shelves of nearly every grocery store already
17:11-!-drift- [] has joined #linode
17:12<drift->where can i find list of all the linode server locations?
17:12-!-drift- [] has quit []
17:12<Tiven>why do we go to v6 from v4
17:12<Tiven>and not on...v8 or something
17:12<Tiven>that gives us even MOAR addresses
17:13<KHobbits>i wonder if i should pick up a few more ipv4, before linode runs out :P
17:13-!-Dylan [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
17:13<KHobbits>just for the hell of it :P
17:13<@Perihelion>If you can justify them, have at it
17:13<jkwood>Tiven: It's extremely unlikely we'll need more addresses. Ever. The next version, when it comes, will be focused on new features.
17:13<pharaun>KHobbits: ticket -> "can i has ipv4 :3"
17:13<Tiven>jkwood thats what we said in 1999!!!!!!
17:13<Tiven>for ipv4
17:13<Kenny>Tiven: More bits to handle for our poor devices?
17:14<Kenny>Bad idea! Serious performance hit! ;)
17:14<KHobbits>i already have 3, that will do for now.
17:14<jkwood>Tiven: No, that's why we started developing ipv6 in the late 90s.
17:14<@Perihelion>Not if I TAKE then from you!
17:14<Tiven>kenny i have 2 :(
17:14<@Perihelion>them, even
17:14<Ovron>the evil lady
17:14*KHobbits wonders if linode will ever be tighter on ips or put the cost up
17:15<Deezire>or just deploy ipv6?
17:15<Tiven>in 3 years
17:15<Ovron>here we go again
17:16<Deezire>Heck, 35% of Norway have native ipv6 support 99% can connect to ipv6 :p
17:16<Tiven>biggest isp here recently started dual stack
17:16<GLaDOSDan>oh hey
17:16-!-jimcooncat_ [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:16<GLaDOSDan>it's the ipv6 convo again
17:16<Tiven>but i need an ipv6 router first :P
17:16<Kenny>Denmark still doesn't have any ipv6 isps
17:16<InitHello>isn't comcast working on dual stack?
17:16<GLaDOSDan>also caker did say the other day that IPV6 was coming soon
17:16<Deezire>Norway is way ahead of everyone on that field, but still, most ISPs have 6to4 tunnels.
17:16<Kenny>I just tunneled to HE though
17:16<Ovron>this discussion is getting old :<
17:17<Tiven>its never getting old
17:17<InitHello>we need IPv10. 2^64 addresses per cubic planck space in the observable universe
17:17<Tiven>that should be enough..for earth.
17:17<Deezire>Ovron: read: "I want my damn ipv6 support on linode, dun care about the rest of the world :p"
17:17<pharaun>Ovron: old discussion is old :)
17:17<Tiven>IPv50 for interstellar net
17:18<pharaun>but pretty much the answer -> arin ipv6 for linode :>
17:18<Kenny>InitHello: We need IPv42. 2^128 addresses per square meter of urmoms surface area.
17:18<Ovron>if you guys want to save yourself some typing, I can link you the log files of the last 2 months, there's at least one discussion about ipv6 every two days
17:18<InitHello>hell, even IPv6 allows 2^40 addresses per star in the observable universe
17:18-!-Dylan [] has joined #linode
17:18<ajmitch>Ovron: probably more since the recent ipv4 allocations
17:18<pharaun>Ovron: please do :) then some of us can just go !ipv6 boom, people gets sent into the logs \o/
17:19<Ovron>!ipv6 should bomb the argument
17:19-!-after [~beef@] has joined #linode
17:19<InitHello>I actually like that idea, and I'm willing to host the log for download
17:19<pharaun>InitHello: linode already has logs avail
17:19<Dylan>back, webbased chat sucked, anyway, if i upgrade packages, do they just pro-rate the two packages, so i can switch back and forth?
17:19<after>hi. how come i had a linode in fremont, CA and now i requested a new linode in newark, NJ and they are hosted in the same machine? (linode28) ? with the same ip range
17:19<InitHello>pharaun: yes, but not |grep IPv6
17:19<pharaun>damn it!
17:20<InitHello>NINJA ASSASSIN'd!
17:20<superdug>does linode have like a central location for all of the logs from IRC?
17:20<pharaun>Ovron: HA
17:20<jkwood>Dylan: Yes.
17:20<mwalling>superdug: /whois VS_ChanLog
17:20<Ovron>Anyone knows if linode has irc logs somewhere?
17:20<InitHello>no, linode doesn't log irc
17:20<Ovron>ah kk
17:20<after>it is in a secret location
17:20<InitHello>at all. Ever.
17:21<InitHello>in fact, there's secret code in the ircd that disables client logging, too
17:21-!-redgore [~redgore@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:21<Ovron>it is called the URMOM command; it causes an overflow in the clients.
17:21<jaskal>suppose a google search would also work...
17:21<after>so does anyone know why
17:21<pharaun>hahahahahahaha oh man
17:21<Ovron>anyone else feel like linking that page?
17:21<after>my linodes supposed to be in different locations are n the same host machine
17:21<pharaun>Ovron: me me me! i know the link!
17:22<superdug>after: wat?
17:22<InitHello>Ovron: pick me pick me!
17:22<Ovron>after: ticket might be a good option
17:22<jkwood>after: Bwuh?
17:22-!-Captain_Intern [~Captain_I@] has joined #linode
17:23-!-trond [] has joined #linode
17:23<superdug>after: can I inquire as to how you know this?
17:23<trond>Any promotion codes active?
17:23<after>sure.. the ips are 173.255. and in the dashboard it says linode28 on both of them
17:24<jkwood>Bad linbot.
17:24<superdug>after: coincidence yet?
17:24<trond>jkwood: is it supposed to trigger on that?
17:24<superdug>put the word still in that sentence up there
17:24<jkwood>trond: Nothing at the current time, no.
17:24<trond>jkwood: ok, thanks
17:24<jkwood>trond: If I had written the trigger, it would have. ;)
17:24<Ovron>!referral triggers though ;o
17:24<linbot>Looking for a referral code? Use this one for free activation: dbe98bfe8cad58e02d9ea22fc98f446240edc909 (Referral docs: )
17:25-!-jmulder [] has quit [Quit: jmulder]
17:25<Ovron>free activation, awesome referral code!
17:26-!-A-KO [] has joined #linode
17:26<InitHello>first 10 seconds free, too?
17:27<jkwood>If you order within the next 10 seconds, yes.
17:27<Kenny>... free activition?
17:27<JshWright>after: what are the IP addresses of your linodes?
17:28-!-tkoskine [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:28<trond>256mb swap or 512mb swap on a 1024 linode?
17:29<superdug>caker: 2048?
17:29<@caker>512 is pointless.
17:29<checkers>better to swap than oom
17:29<jkwood>You really shouldn't be digging into swap that much, so I'd go 256.
17:29<jkwood>Better to OOM than thrash.
17:30<@caker>If you're paging in/out even 100M your node will be useless
17:30<checkers>and I've used that much swap several times
17:30<checkers>better temporary uselessness than oom
17:30<sirpengi>but then we can't hibernate :(
17:30<superdug>I'd rather go into a temporary useless as well
17:30<Ovron>I'd rather fix what's ooming me
17:30<nenolod>temporary uselessness is a misnomer
17:30<@caker>there's nothing temporary about thrashing to oblivion
17:30<nenolod>your vps will likely get shut off anyway if it's thrashing to oblivion
17:31<Tiven>swap = game over
17:31<superdug>do none of you guys use java?
17:31<checkers>yes there is
17:31<jaskal>superdug: uhuh
17:31<checkers>what superdug said
17:31-!-mattyb [] has joined #linode
17:31<Kyhwana>don't use java is the answer there
17:31<checkers>you'll last just fine with 512mb in swap temporarily
17:32<superdug>checkers: I guess you could fix java memory management in lieu of swap space
17:32<checkers>superdug: i know right
17:32-!-mattyb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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17:35<trond>ok next question: Mac or PC?
17:35<trond>just kidding
17:36<jkwood>Pizza, of course.
17:36<encode>there's no question; Apple's computing products are superior
17:36<Kyhwana>OS X-node?
17:36<encode>Kyhwana: that would violate the T&C of the OSX license
17:37<after>after windows 7, windows totally rocks
17:37<encode>unless there was an apple logo on the host
17:37<lobo235>hey all, I have a shell script that was emailing me my bandwidth usage every night that broke a few weeks ago. It was using the following url to get the bandwidth: which now returns a 404. Does anyone know why it broke and/or if there is an alternative way to do this now?
17:37-!-mstshake [~mstshake@] has joined #linode
17:37<pharaun>encode: wouldn't it be simple enough to print an apple and slap it on the box? ;)
17:37<checkers>lobo235: there is a new control panel site on a new URL now
17:37<checkers>log into the website to see the new URL
17:37<encode>pharaun: IANAL; I can't comment on whether that would comply with the terms and conditions
17:38<JshWright>lobo235: don't rely on external tools for that, use something like munin
17:38<checkers>lobo235: furthermore I believe you can use the linode API now instead
17:38<pharaun>encode: ah, hah i was just kidding anyway :)
17:38<mstshake>Who do I have to bribe to get the config for the 2.6.37-linode30 kernel
17:38<@caker>lobo235: change /bw/ to /info/
17:38<@caker>mstshake: zcat /proc/config.gz
17:38<pharaun>mstshake: if they have the config in the kernel then.... caker beat me damn it
17:39<Ovron> -- ze kernels, for reference :)
17:39<mstshake>Ovron: not there, for the reference
17:39<Ovron>mstshake: too bad, for reference
17:39<lobo235>thanks all for the input and advice
17:39<mstshake>caker: I'm running 64-bit, that'd requite me booting into that kernel, it likely wouldn't be very happy happy with a 32bit kernel no?
17:40<JshWright>mstshake: deploy a tiny new image
17:40<lobo235>caker: that fixed it. Is there a better way to be doing this through the API?
17:42-!-tkoskine [] has joined #linode
17:42<jkwood>mstshake: Most assuredly.
17:42<linbot>jkwood: My source is at
17:43*jkwood facepalms at linbot
17:43<pharaun>jkwood: this ?
17:44-!-Kenny [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
17:44<jkwood>pharaun: That would be the one.
17:45-!-jamescollins [~jamescoll@] has joined #linode
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18:10<simonbr>how can i make apache rewrite www. in front of m domain?
18:10<simonbr>cant seem to find any good info on this
18:11<chesty>try searching with redirect instead of rewrite
18:11-!-Captain_Intern [~Captain_I@] has quit [Quit: Poof!]
18:14-!-nanashi [] has quit [Quit: connection killed]
18:14<GLaDOSDan>simonbr -
18:15<WhoNeedszzz>simonbr: i have the line, one sec
18:15<WormFood>56GB Used, 347GB Remaining, 403GB Quota <-- hhhmmm....what to do with all this extra bandwidth?
18:16<GLaDOSDan>Linux distro mirrors
18:16<WormFood>I know, I can use up about 300 gig in 10 minutes, if I setup an open proxy ;)
18:16<WhoNeedszzz>simonbr: RewriteEngine On
18:16<WhoNeedszzz>RewriteRule (.*)
18:17<WormFood>simonbr, you can do that...but I have a better way
18:17<sirpengi>the obvious answer is to unoptimize your site
18:17<WhoNeedszzz>simonbr: put it in a separate vhost as
18:18<GLaDOSDan>WormFood: not on a 100mbit line you won't :P
18:18<simonbr>WhoNeedszzz, can you explain a lil?
18:18<sirpengi>store all your images as BMP at 10000x10000
18:18<WormFood>GLaDOSDan, yeah, I know, I was being a little sarcastic....but it sure wouldn't take that long if I did it (open a proxy)
18:18<GLaDOSDan>simonbr, jtsage gave you the answer 5 minutes ago
18:18<GLaDOSDan>Yeah, probably :P
18:19<simonbr>ty, ill read that
18:20-!-synesthete is now known as synesthete|away
18:20<simonbr>GLaDOSDan, its adding a duplicate //
18:21<WormFood>actually, that only will redirect to you have a wildcard, it won't rewrite that
18:21-!-tkoskine [] has joined #linode
18:21<WormFood>for example, if you have a dns wildcard, and someone types in, it won't be redirected to
18:22<WhoNeedszzz>simonbr: see pm
18:22<simonbr>damn, let me log in using real IRC cause this web isnt prety
18:22<simonbr>what server is this?
18:22<WormFood>the way I do it, it will redirect everything to whatever you want...take for example...I don't want the www. on that... try it
18:23<WormFood>so if you want it to act the way I do it (redirect *everything*, then let me know and I'll tell ya how to do it)
18:24<WormFood>d'oh...put that closing ) in the wrong place
18:24-!-simonbr2 [] has joined #linode
18:24<simonbr2>WhoNeedszzz can you pm that again
18:24<simonbr2>to simonbr2 of course
18:25<WormFood>simonbr2, read what I said, if you missed it when changing clients
18:25<simonbr2>i missed it cause i cahnge clients
18:25<WormFood>the way I do it, it will redirect everything to whatever you want...take for example...I don't want the www. on that... try it
18:26<simonbr2>i want the www
18:26<linbot>New news from forums: Setting a new server up, should I switch to nginx? in Performance and Tuning <> || IPv6 in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
18:26<jkwood>Could you at least PM that crap?
18:26<WormFood>that is really my domain, but the contents are not offensive
18:26<jkwood>The name is offensive enough.
18:26<WormFood>simonbr2, you can redirect it to whatever you want....I just use that as an example
18:26<simonbr2>i will have several subdomains soon enough
18:26<simonbr2>so how do i redirect
18:26<simonbr2>the problem is im testing out ispconfig
18:26<WormFood>jkwood, then grow a thicker skin if you find it do have the right to be do not have the right to not be offended.
18:27<simonbr2>so i dont want to go above it and edit the conf files
18:27<WormFood>simonbr2, hold on a sec, and I'll copy/paste my config for you
18:27<simonbr2>thank you
18:27<WormFood>give me a minute or so, and I'll put it on a pastebin
18:27<simonbr2>sure, no rush
18:28<simonbr2>making salade to complete the supper ensemble
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18:29<WhoNeedszzz>simonbr2: see pm
18:33<WhoNeedszzz>simonbr2: ispconfig? Seriously? Running apache is too easy for all of that laziness :p
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18:37<linbot>New news from forums: Kernel 2.6.37 & PVGRUB fails to boot in General Discussion <>
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18:45<WormFood> what a pain to post...they detected "too many links" in it....I don't know what they call a "link"...I thought a link is an html thing....but I guess they're too smart for their own good (they should have a filer on, to not trigger that)
18:46<WormFood>yeah...the contents of my post, triggered their anti-spam features, because it detected "too many links" (exactly their words in quotes)
18:46<WormFood>try it...edit it (change the syntax highlighting for example), and see what it says
18:47<WormFood>the only way I could get it to actually accept it, was to give 'em an email address
18:47<bob2>thousands of better pastebins around, so it hardly matters
18:47-!-warren [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:48<GLaDOSDan>WormFood: a paste consisting of just "http://" sets it of
18:48<WormFood>yeah, that is what I figured GLaDOSDan
18:48<WormFood>bob2, on that subject? if so, then show me.
18:49<bob2> et al
18:49<trond>am i missing something obvious here? how do i run the stackscripts?
18:49<WormFood>ohhh...I see what you mean
18:49<bob2>trond: they are only directly usable at deployment time
18:49<arsasson>,, are all excellent
18:49<WormFood>yeah, I thought I remember using a different one before, that was better
18:49<WormFood>but I was just trying to do this quickly
18:49<WormFood>and oddly enough, some of the pastbin sites around are blocked where I live.
18:50<bob2>time to vpn to your linode
18:50<trond>bob2: ahh
18:50<WormFood>bob2, that was done over a year ago
18:51<GLaDOSDan> <
18:51<WormFood>my VPN is always on....I just redirect the "big" twitter, youtube, and facebook....then I manually add to the routing table, any additional sites I need to run over the vpn
18:51<WormFood>thats even better GLaDOSDan....why didn't we know about this before?
18:51-!-lobo235 [] has quit [Quit: lobo235]
18:51<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
18:53-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
18:54<WormFood>highlighted lines are the important ones for this task
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19:13<jtsage>anyone know of anything that operates similar to phpmyadmin, but is a bit lighter weight? Have a site on a shared host, and I have no idea what's in the associated db. (no shell access tragically)
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19:14<Craighton>In the apache2 config file for one domain is there a way to make both the www. and the non www. go to the same place
19:14<jtsage>Craighton- ServerAlias
19:14<sirpengi>jtsage: no external access to the db?
19:15<Craighton>I keep getting a error 500
19:15<jtsage>sirpengi- nope. access to a sort of grant interface through plesk, but that's it
19:15<WormFood>Craighton, yes, very easy
19:15-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:15<WormFood>Craighton, you mean as a redirect, or both sites pointing to the same content?
19:15-!-webprojectx is now known as Guest1377
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19:15<jtsage>it's a terrible host, with bad uptime. but, we don't pay anything for it either (donated space and bandwith, so I can't complain too loudly)
19:16<Craighton>WormFood both to sane
19:16-!-trond [] has quit [Quit: trond]
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19:16<WormFood>just point both apache configurations to the same directory....and you'll have a mirror image at 2 different domain names
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19:43<Connor12321>How do I change my ssh root password?
19:45<BarkerJr>login as root and use the command "passwd"
19:46<Connor12321>Ok so..
19:46<Connor12321>I do
19:46<Connor12321>passwd MYNEWPASSWORDHERE?
19:46<@caker>just try it :)
19:46<Connor12321>"passwd thisismynewpassword"
19:47<@caker>no: press p then a then s then s then w then d then enter
19:47<@caker>it'll prompt you after that
19:47<MarkJ_>you really don't want to be entering passwords on the command line at all - other processes can be viewing the process list and see the new password. sure not likely when setting up a server, but still...
19:48<MarkJ_>so do what's suggested above
19:48<JshWright>alternatively, you can use the control panel if you don't mind shutting your node down to do it
19:48<Connor12321>Where do I go in there?
19:48<Kyhwana>bah, just do it from the cli, it'll be fine
19:48<JshWright>The Rescue tab
19:49<MarkJ_>Do you even have shell access at the moment at all?
19:50<JshWright>hmmm... you can't do it from the API though
19:50-!-tkoskine [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:51<JshWright>you can define a password when deploying via the API, obviously, but you can't change it
19:54-!-supine [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:55<MarkJ_>do you want to be able to change the root password without having to login in to the main API?
19:56<MarkJ_>doesn't sound too off from a security standpoint
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20:02<JshWright>MarkJ_: My API key is harder to bruteforce than my control panel password
20:04<Kuboing>JshWright: is it 'zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz' ?
20:04<stan_theman> Access Granted
20:04<Pryon>worst. guess. ever.
20:04<Kuboing>Pryon: well, it does take a long time to bruteforce it
20:04<stan_theman>maybe he fell asleep right before he guessed
20:04-!-kenichi [] has quit [Quit: kenichi]
20:04<Kuboing>if you're going with a->z
20:05<Kuboing>it's easy to remember, but logn
20:05<bob2>Pryon: what did you replace it with? the replacement shows up as an asterisk
20:05-!-tkoskine [] has joined #linode
20:06<Pryon>sed --roman-numeral-mode s/$/II/
20:07<Connor12321>I have a question
20:07<Pryon>(I think, to remain consistent, you'd have to claim that the replacement still shows up as a single *)
20:07<Connor12321>How can I change my phpMyAdmin password?
20:07<Pryon>google race!
20:07<JshWright>stan_theman: nah, it was time to empty the dish machine
20:08<bob2>Pryon: hm, showed up as two vertical stars that time
20:08<stan_theman>JshWright: Ah, I was implying that 'zzzzzz' was Kuboing sleeping
20:09<bob2>does the library have an article about making phpmyadmin only work via ssh tunnel to localhost?
20:09<JshWright>stan_theman: hmmm... perhaps more sleep would be a good idea
20:09<JshWright>(for me anyway... didn't get anywhere near enough last night)
20:10<JshWright>!library tunnel
20:10<stan_theman>JshWright: heh, reminds me of this image:
20:10<linbot>JshWright: 1. Securely Administer MySQL with an SSH Tunnel ( - 2. Securely Administer CouchDB with an SSH Tunnel ( - 3. Securely Administer Oracle XE with an SSH Tunnel (
20:10<JshWright>stan_theman: indeed...
20:11<Pryon>bob2: :P
20:11<Pryon>or, :þ
20:12<JshWright>Connor12321: here's a link to the first google result for "phpmyadmin password":
20:12<Pryon>To.....the ADMINZONE!@
20:12-!-Perihelion [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12<Kyhwana>Why do you need a seperate article for everything? you just tunnel from you to localhost:port
20:13-!-bayashi [] has joined #linode
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20:15<thorrr>is there any max downloadable filesize setting for apache?
20:16<@caker>you want to limit it, or you're seeing a problem?
20:16<Pryon>Not beyond the limits imposed by the operating system
20:17<Pryon>e.g. a filesystem that can't handle files > 2GB
20:17<thorrr>Someone i am talking to is seeing a probelm where a 650mb file always downloads only a certain amount. was just wondering if there was such a setting
20:17<thorrr>i see ty
20:17-!-hfb [] has joined #linode
20:18<@caker>thorrr: that smells of their ISPs transparent proxy or some other funny business
20:18<@caker>ISP's <-- damnit, I missed my chance
20:21-!-Perihelion [] has joined #linode
20:21-!-mode/#linode [+o Perihelion] by ChanServ
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20:29<pharaun>couldn't you bypass transparent proxy by using ssl (https)
20:33<straterra>Or set your own proxy..or VPN
20:34<Gika>i don't know if downloading 650mb over https is a good idea
20:34<checkers>it's a fine idea
20:34<sirpengi>https everywhere
20:34<straterra>SSL FOR THE MASSES!
20:35<Gika>unless it's 650mb of really private stuff
20:36<straterra>If my ISP was that bad, I'd pay for an extra IP from Linode and do 1-1 NAT
20:36<straterra>Sure, it adds latency..but it frees you
20:37<Kyhwana>orr ssh tunnel
20:37<straterra>Screw that. That works with TCP only
20:37<Kyhwana>hrm, you could do some hackery and do udp over ssh tunnel
20:37<straterra>Even then, thats only udp and tcp
20:37-!-snobby [] has joined #linode
20:38<straterra>Less work for 1-1 NAT
20:38<pharaun>why not just use a vpn?
20:38<waltman>carrier pigeons ftw
20:38<pharaun>forward *everything* over the vpn
20:38<straterra>pharaun: thats what I was talking about :P
20:38<pharaun>straterra: 1-1 nat?
20:39<Ovron>don't be too harsh on him pharaun, his working environment is harsh
20:39<straterra>VPN to your linode, get an extra IP and nat the extra IP to your internal VPN IP
20:39<straterra>All data going out has the Linode IP..all data going in goes to your computer
20:39-!-seanh-ansca [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:40<pharaun>ah k nvm me then :) that would work
20:40<straterra>Since the data is encrypted to your Linode, your ISP can't do much to the data. They can rate limite it or block it all together..but thats about it
20:40<Ovron>or they can use their supersecret system to decrypt it on the fly!
20:41<straterra>pssh is good on a palm os device :P
20:41<pharaun>HAH :p
20:43-!-Wulfgar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:48-!-MMMax [] has joined #linode
20:49<MMMax>big thank you to whoever here is from the linode team. you guys are incredible.
20:50-!-mattyb [~matt@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:50*Ovron ducks
20:50-!-mode/#linode [+o stan_theman] by ChanServ
20:52*stan_theman roars louder
20:52<GLaDOSDan>beat that
20:52*stan_theman cowers in fear
20:53<Ovron>why does there have to be so many bubbles in this bubbly water!
20:54-!-MMMax [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
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20:59<iml>whois iml
20:59-!-iml [] has quit []
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21:22<Phelps>Anyone have a Referral Code or Promotion Code ?
21:23<linbot>Looking for a referral code? Use this one for free activation: dbe98bfe8cad58e02d9ea22fc98f446240edc909 (Referral docs: )
21:26<JshWright>Phelps: if someone referred you to Linode, then you should use their referral code
21:27<Phelps>No one has, just thought I could help someone by using theres
21:27<JshWright>there are no active promo codes, AFAIK
21:28<Phelps>I'll use your Referral Code if you have one
21:28<JshWright>I didn't refer you
21:29<Phelps>No one has, doesn't me i just don't use one, you get a free $20
21:29<JshWright>at Linode's expense ;)
21:30<JshWright>I'd rather they keep the $20 and spend it on new servers ;)
21:30<Phelps>I guess.
21:30<Phelps>I'll use the one the bot gave me
21:30<Ovron>free activation!
21:31<JshWright>That's the referral code of the guy who owns Linode
21:31<Zeus>so use it and itll go to new servers :)
21:31<GLaDOSDan>Sec, I have the code that instantly upgrades your node to 2x storage + includes a direct link to skynet
21:32<amitz>discount rate for yearly commitment!
21:32<GLaDOSDan>Here we go,
21:32<Phelps>I can't remember where i heard of Lineode, word of mouth i guess
21:32<JshWright>GLaDOSDan: referral whoring?
21:33*Zeus waits for Perihelion to rage quit irc next
21:33<GLaDOSDan>Perihelion: make it so that regardless of ?r=, it always uses mine
21:33<Phelps>its Prorate ?
21:33<Phelps>that is awesome
21:34<amitz>Zeus: Perihelion is hooked to the system. Perihelion will never quit IRC.
21:34<Zeus>well you didnt use the 13 days prior to today, so why should you pay for them?
21:34<@Perihelion>amitz: I pinged earlier
21:34<Zeus>ya, i saw the scar on the back of her neck from the implant
21:34<Phelps>I just like everything being due at one time, not many people like prorate though, not sure why
21:34<GLaDOSDan>amitz: * Perihelion has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:34-!-richguk [~rich@] has joined #linode
21:37<amitz>GLaDOSDan: thank you, I was about to pour through the log thanks to Perihelion's deception >:)
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21:53<bob2>I was hoping hypercane was sugar-related :(
21:54<pharaun>XD i love the fact that some of these has [citation needed] but ipv4 provided one :>
21:56<tonyyarusso>I'm surprised that supervolcanos weren't on the list.
21:56-!-smed [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:56<pharaun>because they are not *super* enough :)
21:56-!-advion [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
21:56-!-smed [] has joined #linode
21:57<pharaun>wasn't yellow stone classified as a "hypervolcano"
21:58<CompWizrd>it hasn't been reverted yet? how odd
21:58<amitz>********** volcano. I rest my case.
21:58<CompWizrd>supervolcanoes are discused up further
21:59<tonyyarusso>pharaun: beats me. volcano++, whatever you want to call it.
21:59<CompWizrd>heh, the [86] link goes to a dead page
22:00<GLaDOSDan>is CompWizrd the only alias you go by, CompWizrd?
22:00<CompWizrd>GLaDOSDan: i also answer to my name.
22:00<GLaDOSDan>Well, other than that
22:01<CompWizrd>Asshole, and a few others as well
22:01<CompWizrd>but no
22:01<CompWizrd>but yes, rather
22:02<tonyyarusso>ah, supervolcano got a more extended mention on the page.
22:03<Phelps>which will use less, lighttpd or nginx
22:03<Phelps>less overall, cpu/ram
22:03<GLaDOSDan>that's a very generic question, Phelps
22:03<bob2>just use nginx
22:03<pharaun>some people prefer lighttpd, some prefer nginx
22:03<bob2>lighttpd will drive you batty
22:03<Phelps>i have used lighttpd, but there is a lemp stack for StackScripts
22:04<pharaun>lighttpd does has a batty config script >:( but back then when i setup a lighty system nginx was poorly documented, heard its ton better now days
22:04-!-synesthete|away is now known as synesthete
22:07<Phelps>How hard would it be to move a VPS from MediaTemple to Linode? Is there any sort of possible automation ?
22:08<Kyhwana>no. You'd have to setup the linode and then copy your config files/data over
22:10-!-Sputnik7 [] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.55=-]
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22:13<shubuntu>hey guys, is there something wrong with the linode service?
22:14<shubuntu>or have i been hacked?
22:14<shubuntu>i can't ssh to my server at all
22:14<shubuntu>my websites are down
22:14<pharaun>is it running :)
22:14<dcraig>bill past due?
22:14<sirpengi>running ubuntu?
22:14<dcraig>have you logged in to the linode manager?
22:14<shubuntu>yes i have
22:14<dcraig>does it say the linode is running?
22:14<Kyhwana>shubuntu: check the web manager first to see if it's running and then log into the console via lish
22:15<shubuntu>even lish doesn't respond fast enough
22:15<shubuntu>it's going really slow
22:15<dcraig>yeah, maybe you have no more memory
22:15<shubuntu>i rebooted the system
22:15<Kyhwana>can you login to it at least and check the load average?
22:15<shubuntu>how can i fix that
22:16-!-harrumph [~harrumph@] has joined #linode
22:16<auraka> phone
22:16<dcraig>use less?
22:16<shubuntu>no i mean how can i fix the problem so i can ssh
22:16<dcraig>rebooting didn't let you at least log in via lish?
22:16<sirpengi>if you reboot the system you should be able to log in
22:16<Kyhwana>shubuntu: you need to find out whats causing it. If your system is under heavy load, ssh might have died or will be really slow
22:17<Kyhwana>if you can login via lish, check the sytem load/see whats running and using up cpu/load/doing disk io?
22:17<@caker>have you ruled out an intertubes problem between you and the Linode? What's the Linode's IP and we can test it from here
22:20<pharaun>ping/mtr seems ok to me, page does not load
22:21-!-niemeyer [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:21<@Perihelion>shubuntu: May I PM you?
22:22<shubuntu>yes, but i'm on the web irc
22:22<shubuntu>does that work?
22:22<@Perihelion>It should
22:29-!-Bhavicp [] has quit []
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22:34<auraka>whose house....Runs house
22:37<dcraig>man I like that IP
22:37<dcraig>with the 123.234
22:38<dcraig>I keep getting crap IPs from linode... they end in odd numbers, one has a 255 in it, etc.
22:38<bob2>oh the horror
22:38<@mikegrb>mmm cake
22:38<bob2>you should demand a full refund and a free cake
22:39<dcraig>I wonder if I could just keep adding and removing them until I get a pair I'm happy with?
22:39<bob2>I'd suggest going outside
22:39<dcraig>there aren't any IPs out there
22:41-!-Druui [] has joined #linode
22:41<Kyhwana>dcraig: stop wasting all our v4 IPs!
22:41<dcraig>I don't need a lot of IPs or anything 1
22:42<dcraig>I just want them to be aesthetically pleasing
22:42<hobot>all the aesthetically pleasing ones were taken ages ago
22:43<Druui>my first time here,(not first time mirc user.. ha.), however i need assistance on setting up postfix thing... i tried to test by sending mail to my server from my gmail.. however it couldn't work.. it returned with error. Anyone mind help me solving this problem? thanks!
22:43<bob2>what distro
22:44<bob2>did you select internet site when isntalling it?
22:44<@pparadis>Druui: did you follow a specific guide?
22:44<bob2>what does 'hostname' and 'hostname -f' print?
22:44<snap-l>Druui: What error?
22:45<snap-l>I just went through installing postfix myself. :)
22:45<Druui>i build the server with script
22:45<@pparadis>Druui: what version of ubuntu?
22:45<bob2>first stop, fix your hostname
22:45<dcraig>icann must be approving lots of new tlds
22:46-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:46<bob2>what does 'build' and 'script' mean?
22:46<Druui>that one,
22:47<Druui>ubuntu 10.04 LTS
22:47<dcraig>that stackscript doesn't mention too much about postfix...
22:47<Druui>stackscript, bob2
22:47<@pparadis>dcraig: indeed, hence the above library link.
22:47<dcraig>looks like it does "postfix_install_loopback_only"
22:47<dcraig>whatever that means
22:47<dcraig>doesn't sound good !
22:47<@pparadis>yeah, which isn't what he wants.
22:48<dcraig>how do you undo that?
22:48<@pparadis>or she, i can't determine gender from that nick.
22:48<@pparadis>dcraig: there's probably no need to undo anything is the guide i pasted above is followed.
22:48<@pparadis>at best, purge postfix and then follow it.
22:49<dcraig>so apt-get purge postfix?
22:49<@pparadis>right, wipe that out before proceeding.
22:49<dcraig>and then druui can start down another path...
22:49-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
22:49<dcraig>druui, got it, son? :p
22:49<@pparadis>Druui: the library guide above works great, although it takes a little time to run through it, and you _must_ pay very close attention to detail while following it.
22:49<dcraig>I just have something resembling the "basic postfix" setup
22:50<@pparadis>Druui: alternately, since you just deployed this thing, you might try purging postfix and then giving this a shot -->
22:50-!-darkbeholder [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:50<Boohemian>happy valentine's day!
22:50<dcraig>druui, do you also want an imap and pop3 server?
22:50<@heckman>bah humbug
22:51<bob2>fix your hostname before reinstalling it
22:51<dcraig>he don't say much.
22:51<Boohemian>i love you all! :)
22:51<@pparadis>i'm going out on a limb and assuming that someone who wants to accept mail from the internet on a host probably also wants a means of retreiving it.
22:51<dcraig>I like to just forward it to my gmail address
22:52-!-darkbeholder [] has joined #linode
22:52<@pparadis>blegh, my mail is my mail, google can have my gmail, but not the rest of my mail :)
22:52<dcraig>all that spam filtering and stuff always seems like a hassle
22:53<dcraig>and then how big a mailbox do you let users have?
22:54<@pparadis>eh, it's not terrible for me these days, and if it gets onerous i'll just go back to using spamassassin like i used to. for now, a recent install of thunderbird actually does a pretty good job of keeping junk mail under control.
22:54<@pparadis>good enough, in fact, that i haven't even considered anything else.
22:54<@pparadis>unless someone is running a system with a lot of users, mailbox quotas don't even remotely cross my mind anymore.
22:55<dcraig>I've got like 3 GB in my gmail
22:55<dcraig>so I could host 5 people like that on my 512 :)
22:55<dcraig>at most!
22:55<@pparadis>and if someone's gonna really go down the path you're describing, they're most likely better off just using google apps anyhow.
22:55<@pparadis>very little point in even involving your own mail server resources at that point.
22:57-!-Hoggs [] has joined #linode
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23:00<Kyhwana>dcraig: if you're just forwarding it to your gmail address, why not use gmail for your domain?
23:01<dcraig>then it would forward it to some other address
23:01<dcraig>and I'd have to forward it from that address to my gmail address
23:01<@pparadis>this sounds circular somehow :)
23:01<straterra>you dont HAVE to forwards
23:01<dcraig>but I don't want to check two emails
23:02<straterra>so dont
23:02<dcraig>I don't
23:02<@pparadis>but i still don't understand the purpose of having your own mail server in that mix.
23:02<dcraig>postfix forwards to
23:02<Kyhwana>dcraig: I don't understand what you're trying to do.
23:02<Kyhwana>oh, right
23:02<straterra><3 pparadis (for vday?
23:03<dcraig>I'm not trying to do anything
23:03<Kyhwana>dcraig: er, then have gmail for your domain forward it to
23:03<dcraig>it's already done and working fine :p
23:03<@pparadis>straterra: <3
23:03<Kyhwana>that would be WAY easiy than what you're trying to do and you don't need to worry about your linode going down messing up that forwarding
23:03<@pparadis>what Kyhwana said...
23:03<dcraig>so I have to sign in to this other google email account and forward emails
23:03<Kyhwana>dcraig: you only ever need to do that once
23:03<dcraig>why would I worry about my linode going down?
23:03<straterra>you could have google itself host
23:03-!-karstensrage [] has joined #linode
23:03<straterra> done with it
23:04<dcraig>are you at all familiar with the level of service these folks provide? :p
23:04<@pparadis>and then just forward that wherever you want it
23:04<Kyhwana>dcraig: because linodes go down occasionally
23:04<straterra>google will host (for free) email for your domain
23:04<dcraig>I already accomplished all this with postfix
23:04<dcraig>it just seems silly to set up a whole google apps for your domain account in order to forward a couple email addresses
23:05<Kyhwana>so does setting up a linode just to do that
23:05<straterra>not any more silly than doing what you're doing
23:05<@pparadis>but what we're trying to explain is that there's no need for postfix to be in the equation. we're not disputing that it works as configured now, just saying it's another cog that doesn't need to be there, an additional dependency to worry about.
23:05<dcraig>the linode does other stuff
23:05<dcraig>I think google apps is another cog :p
23:05<@pparadis>but google runs that, and you're forwarding to gmail.
23:05<straterra>but...that cog already exists
23:05<dcraig>my postfix install already exists
23:06<dcraig>and if I have like 5 domains, I need a google apps account for each?
23:06<Kyhwana>you've added another cog, that might not be as reliable as google
23:06<dcraig>oh dear lord...
23:06<@pparadis>would you seriously recommend someone adopt your approach rather than just letting google deal with the mail bit if it's going to wind up in gmail anyhow?
23:06<Kyhwana>wait, if you're already got that all setup, why did you come in here looking for help? O.o
23:06<dcraig>I wouldn't recommend my approach to anyone :p
23:06<@pparadis>Kyhwana: he didn't, the other person did.
23:06<dcraig>I didn't come here looking for help
23:06<straterra>thats good..
23:06<Kyhwana>oh, fail
23:07<dcraig>forwarding a couple emails with postfix isn't the end of the world, ppl
23:07<Kyhwana>so how'd we get onto this conversation?
23:07<dcraig>it takes like 5 minutes to set up
23:07<straterra>not the end of the world..
23:07<dcraig>and setting up forwarding for a new address takes like 10 seconds
23:07<straterra>just..more failure prone and less efficient
23:07<Kyhwana>oh, that was Druui
23:07<@pparadis>no, i'm just trying to make sure anyone starting from scratch notes that the consensus is that the postfix/gmail approach probably isn't the most advised way of going about it.
23:07<dcraig>what, postfix will just stop working?
23:07<straterra>it could
23:08<dcraig>I am not advertising my setup as a solution for anyone else!
23:08<straterra>your datacenter could get ddosed
23:08<dcraig>new people, follow the linode guides!!!
23:08<straterra>or the host crash
23:08<straterra>or your kernel oom
23:08<Kyhwana>like how fremont goes down all the time ;)
23:08<dcraig>I'd probably notice within a day or so...
23:08<straterra>or a bad postfix update
23:08<@pparadis>very naughty mail server, very bad, must be punished
23:09<dcraig>so if postfix is somehow known to just randomly stop working, why even suggest it as a solution at all?
23:09<dcraig>it's never been my experience that postfix just stops working
23:09<straterra>its not known to do it..but other factors can make it happen
23:09<Ovron>oh, you havn't heard?
23:09<straterra>like an oom
23:10<straterra>oomkiller is an equal opportunity killer
23:10<dcraig>well, if I start having problems with postfix, I'll consider google apps, OK?
23:10<@pparadis>my idea here is simply to make sure that Druui (who has likely been watching everything since he/she popped in) realizes that postfix/dovecot/etc is alright (one way), and shooting it all through google is okay for others (another way), but mixing the two probably doesn't make sense for someone configuring things from the start.
23:11<dcraig>I think druui checked out a long time ago
23:11<Kyhwana>poor bugger
23:11<straterra>pparadis, remember uplink? hacking through like 40 hops?
23:11<straterra>reminds me of this
23:12*pparadis goes to make straterra a GUI in visual basic.
23:12<@pparadis>we need to visualize this.
23:12<straterra>dont track me bro
23:14-!-synesthete is now known as synesthete|away
23:15<InitHello>introversion makes good games
23:16<InitHello>I've played through darwinia at least 5-6 times
23:16<@pparadis>i'm happy for introversion and all, and imma let you finish, but i gotta say minecraft is the best game evaaar!
23:16<InitHello>minecraft is pretty fun
23:17<Kyhwana>some guy made a CPU inside minecraft, so you can minecraft while you minecraft!
23:18<InitHello>sadly, inherent limitations don't allow building a CPU big enough to run minecraft in minecraft
23:18<bob2>quantum minecraft
23:19<GLaDOSDan>Kyhwana I saw that
23:19<GLaDOSDan>one day he will run minecraft on that CPU
23:19<bob2>we're all living in a creeper's dream
23:20<Kyhwana>ur mums a creeper
23:21<bob2>I only have one
23:24<linbot>New news from forums: AppArmor support in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
23:31-!-pparadis [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:33-!-pparadis [] has joined #linode
23:33-!-mode/#linode [+o pparadis] by ChanServ
23:36<linbot>New news from forums: Deleting disk zeros it out? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
23:39<Kyhwana>if you're that concerned, use an encrypted block device/file with no swap.
23:40<Kyhwana>Sure, the file will be "open", but will only ever be written to disk enrypted.
23:40<czr>you could probably you little-big-planet to build the cpu to run minecraft though
23:40<Peng>I disagree. Encryption is an additional level of security, but zeroing out the disks is pretty basic, and not doing it would be scary.
23:41-!-BarkerJr [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:41<Kyhwana>anyway, caker said they get zeroed
23:42<@caker>you'd be surprised how many places don't do it (read: all of them)
23:42*Peng goes to ask $competitor.
23:44<GLaDOSDan>Brb, paypal
23:44<@Perihelion>Mother of God.
23:45<@Perihelion>CAPS LOCK
23:46<czr>ah, they are zeroed then.. there was some discussion about this yesterday here..
23:48<GLaDOSDan>woo I am preordered
23:50<@Perihelion>You all should join the Linode steam group
23:50<GLaDOSDan>There's a linode steam group?
23:50<czr>ooh, looks pretty
23:51<@Perihelion> !
23:52<GLaDOSDan>Perihelion you could at least put the linode logo there
23:52<@Perihelion>It wouldnt let me
23:52<@Perihelion>I didnt have time to resize it
23:52<Ovron>You have no Friends in this group
23:52<Ovron>harsh :(
23:52<GLaDOSDan>Joined ;o
23:53<czr>Ovron, mornin. you better yet?
23:53<Ovron>czr: morning - and yes, very much so. Thanks :)
23:54<czr>good. /me is happy for you.
23:54<czr>now you can be back as a productive cog in your society!
23:54<Ovron>how is czr doing? (:
23:55<czr>better I think. stopped taking the brain warping medication..
23:55<@Perihelion>Marius: You pretty much fill my news feed on steam. Get a life. Love, Amanda
23:55<Ovron>czr: :)
23:56<amitz>love is indeed in the air.
23:56*amitz looks at the date
23:56<Ovron>"'m Amanda and I like things.
23:56<czr><3 amitz
23:56<Ovron>well then
23:57<czr>Ovron, what is wrong with you though, being awake so early? :-)
23:57<amitz>I love you all ENTERPRISE people. And you only.
23:57<Ovron>czr: messed up sleeping cycles \o/
23:58<Peng>amitz: How great, huge and enterprise is your love?
23:58<amitz>love is indeed in the air. end
23:58<czr>Ovron, excellent :-). same here
23:58<amitz>wait, rogue mouse scroll -_-
23:58<Ovron>wooo \o/
23:59<czr>woke up half past one during the night and was looking at the watch whether to leave for the office yet.. fail +.
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has joined #linode
23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.85502788, 0.00520354) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17639 of 22429 (π ≈ 3.145748807347630 - 0.004156153757837)
23:59<amitz>Peng: as deep as your budget ;-)
23:59<blognewb>this is just so slimy.
23:59<Ovron>czr: hah
23:59<@Perihelion>Crap it's midnight?
23:59<GLaDOSDan>Crap it's 5am
23:59<amitz>Perihelion: yes, love day is about to end, love puppy!
23:59<Ovron>I have been waking up 20 times a night since I got this cold thing
---Logclosed Tue Feb 15 00:00:05 2011