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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-03-17

---Logopened Thu Mar 17 00:00:35 2011
00:01<jasonvan>I'm using this as my reference
00:01<sirpengi>so what's the output of `ps aux | grep apache`??
00:01<jasonvan>25379 0.0 0.1 1860 592 pts/0 S+ 22:56 0:00 grep --color=auto apache
00:01<sirpengi>apache ain't running
00:02<jasonvan>k how do I start it up?
00:02<sirpengi>what happens when you type `/etc/init.d/apache2 start`
00:02<sirpengi>the guide you're following there explains how to turn the server on and restart/reload
00:03<jasonvan>(13)Permission denied: make_sock: could not bind to address
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00:04<jasonvan>obviously the ip address isn't right
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00:04<sirpengi>no, that's fine
00:04<sirpengi> means to bind on all IPs
00:04<jasonvan>wait I might have found the issue
00:05<sirpengi>oh wait, are you doing `sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 start`
00:06<sirpengi>(or otherwise running the command as root)
00:06<jamiedol>su root
00:07<jasonvan>I used sudo
00:07<sirpengi>what's in your /etc/hosts
00:07<sirpengi>on your linode?
00:08<sirpengi>it's either your hosts file is messed up or you have another thing taking up port 80.
00:08<sirpengi>but since your linode isn't responding on :80 I think the second option is unlikely
00:08<jasonvan>alright I got it working
00:08<jasonvan>thx for the help
00:08<sirpengi>it works for me now
00:08<retro|blah>Was just able to telnet in
00:09<sirpengi>your page is '</p>test</p>
00:09<sirpengi>what was the issue?
00:09<jasonvan>wasn't starting apache2 as root
00:10<jasonvan>and my document root was wrong
00:10<jamiedol>Just stay logged in as root and you won't have that problem. ;-)
00:11<jasonvan>sorry for newbie questions. thx again
00:11<sirpengi>that's probably asking for trouble, especially if you're not familiar with system administration
00:11<jasonvan>sirpengi, I know. I never run as root
00:12<jamiedol>Enable backups first.
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00:12<jamiedol>Seriously linodes backup system is pretty cool, you can just roll back to the prior day if you trash the machine.
00:13*encode rolls back a few years of his life, using the linode backup system
00:15<foreverwondering>Does linode seriously install telnet?
00:16<mwalling>telnet client or server
00:16<sirpengi>what's wrong telnet? it's a nice tool
00:16<mwalling>because the telnet client is a perfectly good network diagnostic tool
00:16<foreverwondering>It's insecure
00:16<mwalling>no shit
00:16<mwalling>why would you think they did that
00:17<foreverwondering>Somebody mentioned telneting into their box
00:17<mwalling>[03-16] 23:48:48 < jamiedol> type: telnet 80 from your box and tell me what it says
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00:17<sirpengi>foreverwondering: people use telnet to test services all the time
00:18<mwalling>and secondly, you can install what ever you damn well please
00:19<foreverwondering>I was reading the start apache - didn't read the conversation carefully enough
00:19<retro|blah>mmmmmmmmm, telnuts
00:20<sirpengi>if you can speak the protocol you can access it using telnet
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00:22<sirpengi>in fact, things like memcache, redis, and varnish let you send commands over telnet
00:23<foreverwondering>cool just missed the part. I though s/he was using tenet instead of ssh
00:25<foreverwondering>anyway from what I go of the conversation they seemed to working with a default install. From what I gather the basic install is pretty much a base OS install from disk. I figure I'd have to go about installing a bunch of crap like FTP servers and mail servers, and I was pleasantly surprised when I didn't.
00:26<foreverwondering>installing = uninstalling
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00:38<pharaun>the hell? -> ifconfig sit0 inet6 tunnel :: -> SIOCSIFDSTADDR: No buffer space available then -> ifconfig sit1 inet6 add 2001:470:1f06:2cf::2/64 -> SIOCSIFADDR: File exists
00:38<pharaun>0_o i've never seen those errors before from ifconfig
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00:42<encode>pharaun: sounds like its not ENTERPRISE enough
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00:56<Peng>pharaun: Stuff like that happens sometimes... I don't know the answer to it, though.
00:56<pharaun>ah? at least i'm not alone :>
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01:24<sinusss>from the command line, how do I add fileA.png to
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02:12<batande>wtf? the IP has changed during the migration or what?
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02:13<lsabota>batande: if its a datacenter migration then it has to
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02:15<batande>Hmmm...I just double checked. My IP is the same but some firewall rules have kicked in I s'pose.
02:16<lsabota>do you have iptables rules set?
02:17<batande>sshd was not running 0_o
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02:23<batande>apache2 not starting. what a bitch.
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02:23<batande>httpd: apr_sockaddr_info_get() failed for myhost
02:23<batande>httpd: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using for ServerName
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02:25<aces1up>is it at all possible to say snag files from a linode backup?
02:25<aces1up>without booting the whole backup image?
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02:28<Defenestrator>batande: it sounds like somewhere in the config it thinks it's named "myhost" instead of the actual name.
02:29<batande>fixed it
02:29<Defenestrator>It should be started, but it might only be listening on localhost
02:29<Defenestrator>ah, cool
02:29<batande>hostname was myhost
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02:49<linbot>dcraig: Point (0.10030296, 0.31096089) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17692 of 22492 (π ≈ 3.146363151342700 - 0.004770497752907)
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02:50<linbot>Captain_Intern: Point (0.45363678, 0.34252634) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17693 of 22493 (π ≈ 3.146401102565243 - 0.004808448975449)
02:50<Captain_Intern>HoopyCat, what are you doing up so early?
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02:56<meme>guys what should i enter for webcit https por in the citadel installation
02:56<meme>on the refence doc it says Webcit HTTP port as 80
02:57<meme>not HTTPS
02:57<meme>by default it has 443 as its value
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03:00<robinetd>https != http
03:01-!-aaronyy [~aaronyy@2001:470:8ae8:8888:8888:8888:8888:8888] has joined #linode
03:03<meme>yeah that why the question
03:03<meme>so what shoud be the value
03:03<meme>no clue on that part
03:03<dcraig>too many eights!
03:04*dcraig tickles aaronyy around a bit with a large dealfish
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03:05<meme>people any clue on the port value i am in the middle of it's installation
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03:06<czr>meme, does webcit support https? what is webcit anyway?
03:06<dcraig>443 is the typical port for https...
03:07<czr>yes, but that doesn't really mean anything unless webcit supports https protocol
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03:08<czr>if it only knows http, then setting it to listen on 443 will just cause furious headache.
03:08<meme>it is in the installtion for
03:09<meme>again no idea of that the hell is webcit
03:09<meme>since it is asking i assume it dodes
03:10<czr>port 80 is the default port to serve requests using http. port 443 is the default to serve requests using https.
03:10<czr>default as in when you use URLs in a browser, and don't specify explicit ports, the browser will connect to those two depending on the protocol prefix of the url (http://foo or https://foo)
03:11<dcraig>why would the default setting be something that doesn't work? :p
03:12<dcraig>just keep clicking the Next button!
03:12<czr>dcraig, you're asking why some random thing should work against your expectations?
03:14<czr>meme, according to webcit help, in order to use https you'll also need to specify the -s parameter (which automatically turns -p into 443)
03:14<czr>now, you're probably using some fancy web interface to configure it, so it probably will have some checkbox or something to enable SSL for webcit
03:14<czr>although, are you sure you want ssl for webcit?
03:15<czr>seems to me that it's some kind of backend engine that the frontend will connect to
03:15<czr>and they'll probably run both on the same machine, so using SSL for that connection doesn't make sense.
03:16<czr>"The default for remotehost is to connect localy via Unix Domain Socket. "
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03:25<batande>Is there a way to run https on a port other than 443 and have the browser automagically see that port?
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03:32<czr>the automagic part would have to be some kind of redirection from somewhere else though, unless by automagic you mean a user typing in the URL with the explicit port setting :-)
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03:33<batande>I don't want the user to be typing in the port explicitly.
03:33<batande>So, RewriteRule then?
03:34<czr>some kind of redirect, yes
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03:38<sirpengi>that seems sorta silly though
03:38<sirpengi>because you'll need that port open to handle requests anyways (in order to bounce them to the new port)
03:39<batande> are correct. It seems silly.
03:39<sirpengi>I could see it making some sorta sense if you bounced them from http into https on a weird port
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03:40<batande>I am already redirecting http to https.
03:41<batande>Now I think that a non standard port is extra work that brings in little rewards.
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03:43<Fieldy>has anyone managed to get kernel 2.6.38 vanilla with a custom config to work with their systems? I haven't been able to get anything past to boot. here is the console output: and here is my .config for 2.6.38:
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04:40<djayc>My linode just start spiking CPU at 12AM.. not sure what's going on. When I connect with lish it's just dumping stuff about the memory and CPU information
04:41<djayc>Any ideas what might be causing that?
04:41<djayc>looks like information re: the swap / paging status
04:42<marius_>OOM'ing ?
04:42<marius_>no wait, that would segfault stuff
04:42<djayc>that's what it's doing
04:43<marius_>oh, ok, I'll put a finger on OOM then
04:43<djayc>oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201d2, order=0 [<c014f979>] out_of_memory+0x1c9/0x200
04:43<djayc>log messages look like that
04:43<marius_>You ran out of memory
04:44<djayc>that's really strange.. nothing was really going on on that instance that I know of.. CPU just spiked about 1 hour and 45 mins ago
04:44<marius_>maybe you got /.'ed ?
04:44<marius_>or a rogue process
04:44<djayc>Nah it's just a dev box.. could be a rogue process
04:44<djayc>Is there any way to tell? The box seems unusable at this poiint
04:45<marius_>I think you'll need to hit the big red reboot button at least, but not sure how to tell what dd it as I've never experienced it my self
04:45<marius_>!library OOM
04:45<linbot>marius_: 1. Manage Web Content with Joomla! ( - 2. CMS Guides ( - 3. Installing Prosody XMPP Server on Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick) (
04:45<marius_>oh god, I officially hate you now linobt.
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04:45<djayc>yeah I've never had this happen, either
04:45<djayc>pretty weird
04:46<djayc>I'm atempting a shutdown tnow
04:46<djayc>how'd that t get all the way over there? ;)
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04:47<djayc>hmm I can't even get it to shutdown
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04:48<marius_>are you using the linode manager to shut it down?
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04:48<djayc>yeah, but I went into lish and it seemed to work
04:48<amitz>use linode manager to order the shutdow, I only lost to marius_ by one letter. Damn you, marius_ !
04:49<meme>alright so citdel worked last time
04:49<marius_>amitz: I'm o na roll!
04:49-!-marius_ is now known as marius
04:49<meme>this time the https deosn't wanna load
04:49<djayc>booted fine.. now I gotta try and figure out what the hell happened!
04:49<meme>i know to random but any pointers
04:49<meme>to look for
04:50<meme>i ddi foolow th e guide
04:50<marius>djayc, log nightmare bonanza!
04:53<djayc>360 day uptime, too
04:53<djayc>and I think that was to get some extra disk space
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04:58<dylanvee>Hi all, looking to run a small web application and trying to decide between a Linode 512 and an Amazon EC2 Micro. Any advice as to which I should go with? :)
04:58<dylanvee>They're roughly the same price.
05:03<troy>from my personal experience ec2 micro's are extremely slooow in comparison to a linode 512
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05:04<dylanvee>i've heard that too. might be enough to make me go linode, even though ec2 micro has 613 mb ram vs. linode's 512
05:05<dylanvee>And do I even wanna ask whether I should use Linode or Slicehost :-)
05:07<troy>i've never used a slice but have been a linode customer on and off for over 7 years and have nothing bad to say about them
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05:10<dylanvee>I actually tried Linode a while back, during their giveaway
05:11<dylanvee>I didn't have a use for another server at the time, but I really liked the control panel
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05:12<troy>yes the user cp is great and always being improved.. the aws interface is err.. clunky
05:12<dylanvee>yes, and tbh all their restrictions / terminology are confusing
05:12<dylanvee>just give me a server, you know?
05:13<troy>yes, takes a while to learn, and it annoys me how they allocate an internal ip to the eth0 then manage the firewall etc for you, let me do that!!
05:14<dylanvee>and so much for a simple pricing calculator....
05:14<dylanvee>rofl i think i just definitely talked myself out of ec2
05:15<dylanvee>thanks for enabling me, guys :)
05:15*troy collects spotters fee
05:16<dylanvee>when i sign up i'll come back to ask for an affiliate link
05:17<troy>nar she's cool mate ;) enjoy
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05:57<meme>wait citadel works as i am able to send email
05:58<meme>but not able to connect it through webbrowser
05:58<meme>as it gets redirected to my domain
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06:06<meme>wla nvm figured it out
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06:25<Bartzy>100% in the linode CPU threshold - is that for all 4 cores ?
06:25<Bartzy>meaning all my cores are fully saturated ? Or 400% is fully saturated ?
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06:55<marius>100% is 100%
06:56<@ericoc>9000% is 9000%
06:57<dominikh>2.(9)% is 3%
06:57<chesty>pi% is pi%
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07:04<marius>in my head, 100% is somethign being full
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07:12<chesty>in linux, 100% is 1 cpu being full
07:13<marius>aight, good to know =)
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08:02<tamat>can anybody help? my php $_SESSION is always null, even doing session_start, I check the sessions folder in the server and the sessions are there and are ok, but somehow they seem unreachable (the permissions seems right) so it creates a new one every time
08:03<amitz>how do you know the line is run? how do you know the php file is run?
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08:12<bjorne>tamat: make sure you do not output anything before calling session_start
08:14<tamat>nop, nothing is printed, by Im using serverside file for sessions, not cookies, so I dont think it should matter
08:14<tamat>it looks like some kind of problem when retrieving the files for the sessions
08:14<tamat>because it keeps creating new sessions instead of using the old ones
08:14<bjorne>oh, right. but it needs some kind of cookie anyway i guess?
08:15<bjorne>containing the session id or similar...
08:15<tamat>I dont think so
08:15<tamat>but you make me doubt
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08:16<bjorne>how else is it going to identify a client with some session data?
08:16<tamat>it makes sense
08:16<tamat>I will investigate in that direction
08:16<tamat>thanks bjorne
08:16<bjorne>passing it in the URL is the other option i guess :)
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08:17<tamat>I see
08:17<tamat>session.use_cookies specifies whether the module will use cookies to store the session id on the client side. Defaults to 1 (enabled).
08:17<tamat>you are right, it uses the cookie for the session id
08:17<tamat>and I disabled that
08:18<bjorne>looks like it doesn't store any data in the cookie anyway
08:18<bjorne>(other than id)
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08:19<tamat>I mistook that for storing all session info in the cookie
08:20<tamat>anyway, I enabled that thing again and it keeps happening, but you put me on the right track, it has something to do with the session id, I will investigate
08:20<tamat>thanks again bjorne
08:24<tamat>this is strange, I print the value of PHPSSID in my browser client and it is different from the one sent by the request, and inside my host I have too session files, one with every name
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08:36<linbot>New news from forums: How do I host multiple websites with Apache in Web Servers and Web App Development <> || Web site responds to address in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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08:48<linbot>New news from forums: web site doesn't respond to address in Web Servers and Web App Development <> || Apache Remove Double or Multiple Slashes (//) in URL? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
09:05<Ddorda>hm.. isn't "git" a package?
09:06<Ddorda>sudo apt-get install git = failed :S
09:06<chesty>apt-cache search git
09:06<chesty>apt-cache search git --names-only
09:06<czr>Ddorda, try git-core, it's split up into multiple pieces on ubuntu
09:06<czr>(and I assume on debian as well)
09:07<Ddorda>czr: hm.. i see
09:07<Ddorda>chesty: hm.. next time i'll use your 2nd suggestion, thanks
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09:09<chesty>yeah, 1000's of packages mention git :P
09:10<hawk>apt-cache search ^git works pretty well
09:10<HoopyCat>KEEP AWAY FROM ALL CHILDREN! Do not put in nose or mouth. Swallowed instances can stick together across intestines causing serious infections and death. Seek medical attention if instances are swallowed or inhaled. Linodes should be kept away from electrical or magnetic devices, including but not limited to credit cards, hard drives, or OpenVZ. If a Linode should become damaged or cracked, discontinue use immediately.
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09:11<hawk>Yikes, how do I check my Linode for cracks?
09:12<chesty>ls ~/porn/furry/ass
09:13<chesty>sorry, wrong window
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09:15<czr>hawk, electron-tunneling microscopy. it's the only safe way
09:16<Ddorda>btw, anyone have any idea how to activate auto complete inside commands? i know there's such thing in ubuntu-desktop
09:17<Ddorda>so i can do for ex. apt-get i<tab> and have apt-get install etc.
09:17<czr>Ddorda, check whether you've installed bash-completion
09:17<czr>and that you use bash to start with
09:17<Ddorda>czr: okay, i'll check. thanks
09:18<czr>Ddorda, after installing (if you don't already have it), you'll need a new session probably for the auto-completes to work
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09:27<linbot>New news from forums: owner transfer in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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09:32<linbot>New news from forums: idle SRCDS takes up 210+ mb ram in General Discussion <>
09:33<Karrde>JshWright: why use your Newark apt proxy, when MIT's mirror is so close and fast?
09:33-!-advion [] has joined #linode
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09:36<Karrde>I can't imagine apt traffic would ever be significant unless you're on a Linode 64 and are doing upgrading major versions every day
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09:38<HoopyCat>Karrde: it is used as ballast; memcached uses RAM but not disk, so if you've got a large linode for memcached, you need to have something like an apt cache to avoid unbalancing the disks
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09:40<HoopyCat>Karrde: not a big problem on the smaller-planned hosts, since each linode is less than 1/40th of the total disk, but if you've got a host with 2048s or larger, having a mostly-empty image induce oscillations
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09:45<DrJ>can we move a VPS to another datacenter?
09:45<amitz>yes, open a ticket
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09:46<linbot>Linodes can be migrated between datacenters by simply opening a ticket. Your disk images will be copied intact, but you will be issued a new IP address. Once a migration is configured, it makes a button on the dashboard available for you to start the migration yourself. Migration typically takes about 1-3 minutes per GB.
09:48<ioio>hi, why if i edit a file in a ssh console with "user" it doesn t change the fiel group but if I edit it in a sshfs it changes it to the user s default group ?
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09:48<ioio>(think i got it myself..) in a sshfs environment the user is th e local user while in a ssh shell it s a server side user
09:50<ioio>is it possible to change that? how can i make it so that files edited in a sshfs environment preserve their permissions?
09:50<orudie>for some reason I don't get a ping reply from some domains, for ex. I can ping but no ping reply from
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10:08<JshWright>Karrde: I've got a lot of available disk space and transfer, might as well put it to some good use ;)
10:12<JshWright>it lightens the load on Ubuntu/Debian's mirrors (if only a very tiny amount), saves Linode some transfer (if only a very tiny amount), and gets more people to configure their private network address to take advantage of other Linsides offerings ;)
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10:14<jamiedol>orudie: some sites block icmp traffic
10:15<orudie>once I enabled the firewall, mail is not received. With pop3 i opened ports 110 in firewall, what else did I miss ?
10:15<orudie>using postfix/dovecot
10:16<Maff>jamiedol: I get ping replies from google.
10:16<jamiedol>I do as well.
10:16<jamiedol>Do you have port 25 open?
10:17<jamiedol>Well, do you want to receive mail on this machine?
10:18<Maff>You're not talking to me are you
10:18*Maff resumes idling
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10:24<ioio>hi I am still unsure about the ssh issue mentioned above: why editing a file in a ssh shell doesn t change the group of the file while editing it in a sshfs does ?
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10:28<mwalling>ioio: because sshfs is (IMO, wrongly) chgrp-ing the file when it writes it out
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10:36<tombee>Is it possible for multiple people to pay the bill for a single linode, say to share the cost?
10:36<tombee>So the invoice is paid by someone other than the original person that set up the linode?
10:39-!-bayashi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:42<HoopyCat>tombee: not without manually shuffling credit card numbers around and manually forcing payments; using something like WePay might be easier
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10:57<tombee>Ok HoopyCat, no problem. Thanks :)
10:58<ioio>so why is sshds chgrping and how can i avoid that?
10:58<czr>ioio, sshfs is a fuse driver, so what you see through it, might not represent the "reality"
10:58<czr>ioio, you might want to contact the author(s) of sshfs however, to ask them directly.
10:58<ioio>for sure it changes the group of the file
10:59<ioio>question: when I use sshfs am i using th elocal or the server user? (are both named in the same way in my situation)
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11:03<awr>my server is down
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11:05<JshWright>awr: could you be a little more specific?
11:06<mwalling>ioio: "yes".
11:07<mwalling>ioio: the "effective" user that is touching the files on the remote end is the user specified in the connection string to sshfs. (if that is none, ssh looks at the current username to guess)
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11:14<ioio>mwalling: but sould ever the local user be used?
11:14<ioio>* would
11:15<mwalling>well, on your side of the connection, yes
11:15<mwalling>but the remote machine doesnt know about your machine (and if it did, you wouldnt be asking this question)
11:16<ioio>so the "toucher"is always the server user
11:16<ioio>i wonder now if just changing th edafault group of the user will do
11:17<ioio>i need the group to stay on wwww-data
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11:17<ioio>so i i change th euser group from user to www-data that should do,
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11:18<ioio>then maybe re-add the "user" group as extra group for user
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11:20<awr>its just stopped i cant get on
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11:34<JshWright>awr: can you log in via lish?
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11:47<mwalling>transparent fs compression, alla ntfs's whole disk compression
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12:24<AviMarcus>'lo folks
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12:28<Xenc>What's the best IRC client for cli linux
12:29<Xenc>Great thanks
12:29<deejoe>well, not quite cli, but text-based, yeah.
12:29<tjfontaine>telnet or netcat
12:29<deejoe>nc ftw
12:30<Xenc>these are all pretty good
12:30<Xenc>using irssi right now
12:32<awr>whats lish?
12:32<linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log in to the Linode Manager. LISH's primary function is to allow you to access your Linode's console, even if networking is disabled.
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12:39<mwalling>Xenc: google "f0rked screen irssi"
12:39<Fieldy><3 lish
12:40<jkwood>SpaceHobo: It's raining men?
12:40<tjfontaine>it goes like this, a 4th a 5th a minor fall and a major lift
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12:42<tjfontaine>bring your knees in tight
12:43<linbot>New news from forums: Server was OOMing, now MySQL server won't start in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
12:45<Fieldy>has anyone managed to get kernel 2.6.38 vanilla with a custom config to work with their systems? I haven't been able to get anything past to boot. here is the console output: and here is my .config for 2.6.38:
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12:58<AzumaHazuki>What CPUs do the Linode servers run?
12:58-!-kenichi [] has joined #linode
12:58<AzumaHazuki>I'm looking at a Linode 512 for one website
12:58<tjfontaine>it varies from host to host, but in short big honking ones
12:58<danieldg>my cpuid says: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU L5520 @ 2.27GHz
12:58<AzumaHazuki>Ooh, nice an L5520 :)
12:59<JshWright>several of them per host...
12:59<JshWright>Linodes get access to 4 virtual cores
12:59<AzumaHazuki>so the average L512 is sharing one MP server with up to 39 others...
13:00<JshWright>if the host is fairly quiet (which, according to Linode staff is virtually all the time for the vast majority of hosts), you can use the equivalent of 400% of a L5520 core
13:00<AzumaHazuki>Xeon L5520 is Nehalem-class 60W TDP right?
13:00*AzumaHazuki forgot, and she's more of a desktop than server geek
13:01<tjfontaine>it's fast, I'm content knowing that
13:01<JshWright>what tj said ^^
13:01<JshWright>I've never found myself wanting for more CPU horsepower
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13:01<jkwood>I can't tell the difference between my VPS and a dedicated machine, except perhaps that the VPS is faster and more responsive, if it helps.
13:02<whud>Hi, I'm looking to purchase a VPS with Linode and I have a couple of questions first. Is there anyone online who I might have a quick chat with?
13:03-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
13:03<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
13:03<JshWright>whud: ask away
13:03<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
13:03<whud>Sure, thanks
13:04<whud>The most important is: can I choose which datacenter the VPS is deployed to? I need one in EU and one in US
13:04*tjfontaine lets JshWright take point
13:04<whud>And is it possible to move between datacenters if I start out with one server?
13:04<AzumaHazuki>Okay, question 2: I am currently running our stuff on a Gentoo system with an i3 530 CPU. So, the binaries I have will work on the L5520. Can I choose a Gentoo Linode, set it up, and just scp or rsync the contents of my server?
13:04<JshWright>yeah, moving a Linode from on DC to another is as simple as opening a support ticket
13:04<jkwood>AzumaHazuki: Yup.
13:05<AzumaHazuki>Super schweet :)
13:05<tjfontaine>whud: and resizing is quick as a clikc of a button (it will require downtime)
13:05<JshWright>it'll obviously take some time to copy your data to a different DC, but that's all handled automagically
13:05<jkwood>You will want to run the Linode-provided kernels most of the time, unless you really badly want to play with pv-grub.
13:05<whud>Thanks JshWright, i think that covers most of my concerns :)
13:06<tjfontaine>!library custom distro
13:06<linbot>tjfontaine: 1. Running a Custom Linux Distro on a Linode VPS ( - 2. Run a Custom Compiled Kernel with PV-GRUB ( - 3. Run Custom Kernels and Distribution Templates on Linode Instances (
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13:06<jkwood>whud: Your bandwidth is also pooled between your linodes, so if one uses 3/4 of your bandwidth one month and the other uses 1/4, you're not out any more money.
13:09<whud>Ah, great. The stuff Im looking to do will require a small amount of bandwidth
13:09<AzumaHazuki>f I choose Gentoo VPS, do I get to install from scratch or is there a premade image?
13:09<whud>Mostly remote testing and benchmarking
13:10<tjfontaine>AzumaHazuki: premade image
13:10<AzumaHazuki>Ahh, okay...sane CFlags I hope :)
13:10<AzumaHazuki>and we're allowed to emerge -e world with a different set of USE flags or so?
13:10<tjfontaine>the good news is it's all yours to fuck with
13:11<tjfontaine>you're allowed, but I bet your neighbors won't be thrilled :)
13:11<AzumaHazuki>is there a list of what's installed in it anywhere? I have a feeling I may need to reemerge PHP and Apache
13:11<bd_>AzumaHazuki: Feel free to do whatever you want with your CPU time.
13:11<JshWright>gentoo on a server? ewww... ;)
13:11<bd_>Some people feel it's rude to use ridiculous amounts of CPU time for frivolous purposes, but hey, it's up to you.
13:11<bd_>There's no official policy against it.
13:11<tjfontaine>AzumaHazuki: generally it's base+ssh
13:11<AzumaHazuki>Jshwright: I've been doing it for years
13:12<AzumaHazuki>I have 7+ yr. experience
13:12<AzumaHazuki>you just need to know how to use it
13:12<bd_>tjfontaine: Don't forget dhcpcd!
13:12<tjfontaine>oh right!
13:12<AzumaHazuki>tjfontaine: Okay, so it comes with basically just a stage 3 tarball extracted into it plus ssh and dhcpcd, and up to us to install more?
13:12<bd_>AzumaHazuki: More or less, yeah.
13:12<AzumaHazuki>I *like* this idea
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13:13<AzumaHazuki>now, the L512 only allocated 1/2GB of RAM, so compiles will be a bit slow even with Nehalem Xeon behind it right?
13:13-!-azaghal_ is now known as azaghal
13:13<bd_>AzumaHazuki: Avoid -j2 on big C++ programs, yeah :)
13:13<jkwood>Shouldn't be too bad most of the time.
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13:14<bd_>AzumaHazuki: for C programs, 512mb is usually enough even for -j4
13:14<bd_>(in my experience)
13:14<AzumaHazuki>wow, nice
13:15<AzumaHazuki>and it's not like I'll be compiling Openoffice or something ^^
13:15<whud>Quick question, its been a while: "Best" swap size for CentOS?
13:15<AzumaHazuki>I will need X though, since the boss needs to VNC in.
13:15<JshWright>whud: on a Linode? 256MB
13:15<bd_>hah, compiling OOo with 512mb? Good luck with that :)
13:15<jkwood>We do recommend going with a 32-bit userspace for smaller Linode environments, unless you have some very good reason for going 64-bit.
13:15<whud>Yea, on Linode. I signed up:)
13:15<jkwood>And yes, smaller swap spaces are better. Swapping is dying on a Linode.
13:16<AzumaHazuki>eh, I'm going to put 768MB of Swap on a 512 if I get that
13:16<jkwood>Will you be hibernating it?
13:17<AzumaHazuki>that's allowed on a VPS? And I can't imagine why I would
13:17<JshWright>no reason for more than 256MB on a Linode, regardless of the distro or plan size. It's nice to have a _little_ swap where the kernel can stick really stale pages to free up space for caching, but if you start hitting swap for "normal" usage, you're done for
13:17<mwalling>AzumaHazuki: you could have an 8GB swap if thats what you want
13:17<AzumaHazuki>hmm, okay
13:17<mwalling>doesnt mean its a good idea
13:17<jkwood>mwalling: Don't remind me.
13:17<AzumaHazuki>I think I'll do 640 or 512 then, just in case
13:17<mwalling>AzumaHazuki: no, you really dont want to do that
13:18<AzumaHazuki>what do I want?
13:18<AzumaHazuki>okay, got it
13:18<JshWright>a "quick" death by OOM, rather than a lingering painful death by swapping
13:19<AzumaHazuki>fair enough
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13:19<AzumaHazuki>okay, next: firewalling. Do I need the same kind of iptables firewall I use now, where the machine is facing the internet directly on its own static IP?
13:19<bd_>AzumaHazuki: If you can get a Xen VPS to hibernate, by all means feel free to do so. :) I can't imagine _why_... actually, I can imagine a few reasons to do so, but nothing particularly plausible.
13:19<JshWright>your linode will have a public IP
13:19-!-[EH]ChaosKiller is now known as ChaosKiller
13:20<AzumaHazuki>isn't it NAT'd through the facility's WAN-facing machines?
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13:20<mwalling>AzumaHazuki: no
13:20<bd_>AzumaHazuki: You have a public IP. Very little port filtering is done. There is NO NATing done.
13:20<bd_>If you want a NAT you'll have to build it yourself )
13:20<AzumaHazuki>Ohhhh, man, thanks for telling me. So, in other words, I need to use my paranoid IPTables =P
13:20<JshWright>the Atlanta DC filters a few ports, but none of the other DCs do
13:20<bd_>JshWright: I thought some of them filter SMB?
13:21<JshWright>well, treat it like a box with a world routable IP
13:21<AzumaHazuki>paranoid, then
13:21<JshWright>bd_: I didn't think so, but I wouldn't swear to it
13:21<bd_>but yeah, atlanta filters 6667 and a few other ports. the others are more or less wide open, modulo some frequently exploited windows ports that the datacenter filters out of general paranoia
13:22<AzumaHazuki>i always tell iptables to drop everything as policy (-P DROP) then allow only loopback traffic, then state matches on established and related connections, and only then do I open some ports
13:22<AzumaHazuki>and even then, only some protocols, with limits
13:22<JshWright>that's certainly a reasonable approach
13:22<whud>That was easy, up and running already.
13:22<JshWright>whud: congrats
13:22<AzumaHazuki>"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you, de geso~"
13:23<AzumaHazuki>'kay, so a 512 isn't a horrible idea for Gentoo?
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13:24<bd_>Gentoo is a horrible idea, but if you insist on gentoo you can make do with a 512.
13:24<AzumaHazuki>why is it horrible?
13:24<AzumaHazuki>I know it better than any other distro and I know how to harden it
13:25<bd_>AzumaHazuki: One of the reasons is that the reliance on revdep-rebuild leaves you with a window in which a vital solib can be broken with an upgrade, after which point you have to rebuild an unpredictable number of other packages that depend on it
13:26<bd_>if some of those packages take a long time to rebuild, that can turn into a very long outage
13:26<AzumaHazuki>bd_: that rarely happens to me even on a general use desktop. We're going to be running a minimal set of packages and using very conservative C and USE flags
13:27<AzumaHazuki>basically just the base system plus: apache, php, mysql, X, IceWM, ATerm, tightvnc, and maybe a browser for previewing the sites before going live
13:27<bd_>Still, it's a fundamental design issue in gentoo that I really don't like :)
13:27<JshWright>AzumaHazuki: it's your server, and certainly your choice, it's just not a distro that very many folks who do this sort of stuff day in and day out would go with
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13:28<AzumaHazuki>well...nothing else gives me that level of control. I don't know Slack well enough, Arch is unstable, and no offense but Debian and CentOS are constipated and convoluted
13:28<tjfontaine>ok well, sign up and help the bottom line :)
13:28<AzumaHazuki>if they had Arch Server I might use that~
13:28<JshWright>you... would... Arch....
13:28<bd_>AzumaHazuki: up to you to weigh your options :)
13:29<AzumaHazuki>Server, not Arch normal
13:29<bd_>AzumaHazuki: you can manually install another distro if you prefer
13:29<bd_>AzumaHazuki: There's a "finnix" mode - basically a livecd. If you want to take full control, run that, and manually install whatever distro you want.
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13:29<AzumaHazuki>Ahhh, nice
13:29<JshWright>ok... I'm out, increasing my blood pressure over something that doesn't matter to me in the slightest is a bad idea
13:29<bd_>Note, of course, that your success in this endevaour depends entirely on you :)
13:30<AzumaHazuki>hm...I think I'll go with Gentoo though, just to maintain that level of control over it. I know it inside and out. Arch is too damn unstable
13:30<tjfontaine>well you're all set to sign up then :)
13:31<AzumaHazuki>plus I can use the machine in the basement to DistCC and speed compile time up, lol
13:31<HoopyCat>the problem with having complete control over a system is that you must exert complete control over the system :-)
13:31<bd_>AzumaHazuki: ah, I've tried that before, distcc over a slow network link (ie, your home link) can be quite painful
13:31<AzumaHazuki>I know. But I have a major case of CDO (like OCD but alphabetized as God intended)
13:31<tjfontaine>buy multiple linodes
13:31<tjfontaine>and distcc over the private network
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13:32<AzumaHazuki>eh, given how grunty the Xeon is, I shouldn't even need DistCC
13:32<HoopyCat>i've got three linux installs in my office alone... not about to trade automation for optimization :-)
13:32-!-sdfsdfsd [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
13:33<AzumaHazuki>"optimizing" a server OS is asking for trouble
13:33-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
13:33<tjfontaine>anyway, let us know if you have any problems with your linode
13:35<AzumaHazuki>we'll be running a Joomla site off of this
13:35<AzumaHazuki>(bleh, Joomla)
13:39<AzumaHazuki>so, I can scp or rsync stuff over right? Like my apache settings >>;
13:39<KingTarquin>Oh, Moodle should be banned. I had to change memory_limit to over 120M for it to work error free! :/
13:39<tjfontaine>AzumaHazuki: it's yours to break as much as you can
13:39<linbot>New news from forums: udevd[836]: add_to_rules: unknown key 'ATTRS{idVendor}' in General Discussion <>
13:40<KingTarquin>Hmm, anybody work with Cherokee much?
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14:00<AzumaHazuki>is there a way to change the displayed hostname in console? I set /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts already and rebooted it
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14:06<tjfontaine>!library hostname
14:06<linbot>tjfontaine: 1. Linux System Administration Basics ( - 2. Host Email and Calendars with Zimbra 6 on Debian 5 (Lenny) ( - 3. Host Email and Calendars with Zimbra 6 on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) (
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14:13<Bartzy>100% in the linode CPU threshold - is that for all 4 cores ?
14:13<Bartzy>meaning all my cores are fully saturated ? Or 400% is fully saturated ?
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14:14<AviMarcus>hit "1" in top and yu see a break down for each core
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14:16<retro|blah>Bartzy: It's possible to go over 100%
14:17<bd_>Bartzy: the CPU graph and monitoring in the linode managers mean one core at full tilt when they say 100%. The maximum you'll ever ee is just under 400%
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14:25<mwalling>but if you stick a cpu for that long, either you're number crunching, where you'd adjust the threshold, or you got something stuck and dead and broken
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14:49<DrJ>does linode have a limit on the number of emails a server can send in one hour?
14:49<DrJ>need to send out a notice saying I've changed servers to my users, which is roughly a batch of 500 users
14:49<mwalling>!f what can i do with my linode
14:49<linbot>mwalling: What can I do with my Linode? Its probably easier to tell you what you cannot do: Nothing illegal and nothing that interferes with other customers and services. Our Terms of Service document is located here:
14:50<DrJ>so no limit
14:50<tjfontaine>there's a 50mbps uplink limit
14:51<tjfontaine>never mind, correct there's no limit
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15:10<linbot>New news from forums: DNS: How to make external domain point to subdomain(s) in Linux Networking <>
15:13-!-czr2 [] has joined #linode
15:14<czr2>so how do i find my smpt server by the way
15:14<JshWright>how do you what your what?
15:14<czr2>yeah bad
15:14<JshWright>what do you mean by "find" it?
15:14<AviMarcus>uhh.. linode is unmanaged
15:14<AviMarcus>you don't have one unless you installed / configured one
15:15<czr2>my bad* this web browser irc client hides my message when typing
15:15<czr2>so i installed citdel
15:15<JshWright>I'm trained in USAR, as well as WSAR, and we never went over how to find an smtp server...
15:15<czr2>so i am tring to configure citadel to recive mail on my lonode
15:16<czr2>i can send email but can't recive them
15:16<AviMarcus>is that a linode in lindon? a lonode?
15:16<AviMarcus>bah london*
15:16<czr2>on one of the guides it said "under the smart hosts option add in your SMTP server"
15:16<AviMarcus>czr2, if you want smtp access via your linode, you need to set up a mail program
15:17<czr2>yeah lonide like i said the chomes hidding my message whn i type so can't see what i typed
15:17<czr2>i did citadel
15:18<czr2>I am able to send messages from my linode but not able to recive them
15:18<czr2>one of the guides online said i need to do this "under the smart hosts option add in your SMTP server"
15:18<czr2>and that is why the question
15:18<czr2>again that was an configuration option in citadel
15:19<AviMarcus>You need to install software to create an smtp server
15:19-!-blake [] has joined #linode
15:19<AviMarcus>if citadel is asking for smtp access, then it must not create an smtp server for you.
15:19-!-Captain_Intern [~Captain_I@] has joined #linode
15:19<AviMarcus>linode gives you a box to run *nix on - it's up to you what to do with it.
15:19<AviMarcus>!library smtp
15:19<blake>does linode allow servers to be deployed for short periods of time, say 48 hours, and then deleted?
15:19<linbot>AviMarcus: 1. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Debian 6 (Squeeze) ( - 2. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick) ( - 3. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) (
15:20<AviMarcus>yes blake.. prorated per day. The credit goes to your linode balance though
15:20<AviMarcus>you can even use the API to automate that
15:20<AviMarcus>for instance spinning up more servers to manage the load or something
15:20<blake>okay, because i'm with rackspace cloud and they bill by the hour
15:21<AviMarcus>linode is probably cheaper anyway
15:21<blake>but linode seems cheaper, you guys have a datacenter in NJ, and supposedly do better on benchmarks
15:21<AviMarcus>and linode kicks butt in performance:
15:21<AviMarcus>ah so you've seen
15:21<blake>yep, just read that
15:21-!-foreverwondering [] has joined #linode
15:21<AviMarcus>yeah. Anyway, it's pro-rated per day. and..
15:21<blake>oh boy, mikegrb still says "lulz" automatically
15:22<AviMarcus>there's a 7?14? day money-back guarentee
15:22<@mikegrb>oh boy, blake still uses lol excessively
15:22<AviMarcus>"7 day money back guarantee "
15:22<blake>you remember me, mike?
15:22<blake>i was a customer some 3-4 years ago
15:22-!-propercoil [] has joined #linode
15:23<propercoil>Is Someone here?
15:23-!-duckydan [] has joined #linode
15:23<tjfontaine>a few
15:23<blake>i'm mostly excited about the NJ datacenter as I currently use a 1GB server on rackspace cloud to run a few game servers
15:24<blake>AviMarcus: i can pick which DC i want to deploy in, right?
15:24<propercoil>Whar is the capacity on a Linode's line? 100MBIT?
15:24<AviMarcus>propercoil, you get soft-capped at 50mbit unless you ask to change it
15:24<blake>too bad you guys don't have a $10/mo 256mb server :-P
15:24<propercoil>50Mbit shared with 30 other people?
15:24<AviMarcus>no, your vps
15:24<AviMarcus>it must be a gigabit nic..
15:25<propercoil>Thanks Avi
15:25<linbot>New news from wiki: User:Vesely <>
15:25<blake>i've been wanting to colocate, but the datacenters here are ridiculously priced
15:25<auraka>ugh....reddit is deader than a secretary in a kennedy car
15:25<auraka>blake: where?
15:25<blake>providence, ri
15:26<blake>i put in a quote request for 3U
15:26<auraka>oh....ya.....thats because you guys are a third world state
15:26<blake>this guy calls me back trying to pitch me on a full rack or even a cage
15:26<blake>jesus :-\
15:26<propercoil>Does anyone know if i can pay more & get a larger Cap?
15:26<TheFirst>propercoil: ask nicely with a good reason
15:26<blake>auraka: boston isn't much cheaper, sadly
15:26<auraka>propercoil: you can just ask...however you can paypal me some $$ if it makes you feel better about it
15:27<auraka>blake: boston is horrible for colo as well
15:27<propercoil>lol auraka
15:27<blake>although i did find a few DCs that will stick me in a shared cabinet
15:27<blake>for cheap
15:27<blake>so we'll see on bw pricing
15:27<TheFirst>although if you're planning on using >50Mb all the time your transfer will quickly be used up
15:27<blake>TheFirst: probably just for burst
15:27<TheFirst>blake: i'd hope
15:27<propercoil>So can i upgrade it?
15:28<blake>i can think of many applications where that level of bw wouldn't be steady
15:28<auraka>blake: you could go to stamford for cheap
15:28<blake>ugh, that's a long drive
15:28<DrJ>wait, what does soft-capped at 50mbit mean?
15:28<blake>that's pretty much in NYC, auraka
15:29<blake>god damnit
15:29<tjfontaine>DrJ: act like noone ever said it
15:29<propercoil>It means if you go over 50Mbit they down stream you
15:29<auraka>I didn't pick where you chose to live....come join the developed world
15:29<blake>downstream you?
15:29<AviMarcus>propercoil, you just need to open a ticket
15:29<AviMarcus>downstream? it's capped at that speed
15:29<blake>propercoil: what do you mean by they downstream you?
15:29<AviMarcus>meaning it won't go faster..
15:29<@pparadis>it means there's an outbound rate limit of 50 Mbits/sec by default, and if you are consistently hitting the cap it can be raised with a ticket.
15:30<blake>so what is he talking about "downstream you"
15:30<AviMarcus>propercoil, listen to pparadis, he works at linode :)
15:30<blake>people are just making stuff up in here
15:30<@Praefectus>blake: hes talkin out his .. you fill it in
15:30<DrJ>100%[=======================================>] 104,857,600 50.8M/s in 2.0s <--looks to be 50MBps not 50Mbps
15:30<TheFirst>Praefectus: hah...for once it's the user and not the support staff doing that :P
15:30<@pparadis>DrJ: it's 50 megabits per second.
15:31<DrJ>I just got a 100MB file in 2 seconds
15:31-!-Bhavicp [] has joined #linode
15:31<tjfontaine>caching is amazing
15:31<DrJ>oh ic
15:31<@pparadis>DrJ: trust me, i assure you it's 50 megabits per second.
15:32<czr2>so what is the linode's isp's smtp server
15:32<AviMarcus>DrJ, did you download from your own datacenter?
15:32<blake>pparadis: do you have many people running game servers on linode?
15:32<auraka> like 5/6 MB/s
15:32<DrJ>that's all linode gives us
15:32<AviMarcus>blake, a bunch of minecraft servers
15:32<auraka>yea....why do you need more?
15:32<@pparadis>blake: people run all sorts of stuff on linodes, including a bunch of game servers.
15:32<@Praefectus>czr2: we dont provide mail
15:32<blake>oh, you guys don't have windows servers
15:32<blake>i forgot about that :-\
15:32<@pparadis>czr2: you're welcome to install any MTA you like.
15:33<AviMarcus>czr2, linode gives you a box to run *nix on - it's up to you what to do with it.
15:33*TheFirst smacks blake
15:33<DrJ>I'm getting 100Mbit
15:33<auraka>I run a Charlie Sheen tribute site on mine
15:33<DrJ>100%[=================================================>] 104,857,600 11.2M/s in 9.3s
15:33<@pparadis>DrJ: what's your linode's IP address?
15:33<DrJ>11.2MBps is basically 100Mbit
15:33<auraka>DrJ: it is a trap
15:33<auraka>don't tell him
15:34<Kuboing>IT'S A TARP!
15:34*pparadis smacks the crap out of auraka and tells him to shut it.
15:34<blake>does linode have any way of creating a private LAN?
15:34<blake>or is it just the internal IPs all on the same subnet?
15:34<tjfontaine>there is a private lan, and you're free to run your own vpn
15:34<@pparadis>blake: there's a private network available, you just need to add a private IP from the remote access tab and configure it statically.
15:34<propercoil>pparadis i want to start use linode, got 35k visitors / day, images & clips are in a S3 amazon stack. what do you recommend?
15:34<auraka>15:33 * TheFirst smacks blake
15:34<auraka>15:33 < DrJ> I'm getting 100Mbit
15:34<blake>well, it's not truly private because other linode customers are all on it, right?
15:35<@pparadis>propercoil: that is an impossible question.
15:35*TheFirst smacks auraka
15:35<tjfontaine>blake: ips are tied to mac address, so you're communicating with people you choose to
15:35<linbot>New news from forums: CentOs installs in General Discussion <>
15:35<AviMarcus>propercoil, try nginx and a 512? if you need you can upgrade..
15:35<auraka>blake: why don't you type up all of your an email...and send it to sales
15:35<TheFirst>auraka: damn right! and if you ever tell anyone I'll hunt you down and make you wish you were never born!
15:35-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
15:35<blake>auraka: am i breaking the #linode rules?
15:35<@pparadis>DrJ: what file are you downloading, a bunch of zeros?
15:36<blake>i prefer to ask questions of the community on IRC than formally in a support e-mail
15:36<tjfontaine>blake: you're fine
15:36<AviMarcus>pparadis, 104,857,600 50.4M/s in 2.0s -- I downloaded the london speedtest from my london linode
15:36<@pparadis>there's nothing wrong with asking presales questions here.
15:36<@Praefectus>blake: No, you aren't.
15:36<auraka>no....just seems like you have a million questions that could be found with a little research
15:36<propercoil>Avi 512? seriously?
15:36<@Praefectus>auraka: anything can be found with a little research
15:37-!-CompWizdr [] has joined #linode
15:37<blake>asking question in #linode = research
15:37<AviMarcus>35k visitors, not 35k pageviews?
15:37<tjfontaine>blake: it's private as in non-routable ips, if you want further restirctions that's your responsibility
15:37<propercoil>35k unique visitors a day
15:37<AviMarcus>ah. Hmm. try a 1gb then maybe. It's <30 min to upgrade/downgrade..
15:37<ajmitch>how you handle 35k visitors/day depends entirely on what the site is actually doing for each request
15:37<JshWright>propercoil: what sort of app are we talking about?
15:37<DrJ>what is the IP for the linode dns manager?
15:38<Kuboing>35k visitors a day? an unlikely figure
15:38<DrJ>so that is where I should point my nameserver?
15:38<blake>tjfontaine: one of my concerns with rackspace cloud right now is MITM attacks between my web and database servers (they communicate in plain-text over the rackspace lan)
15:38<Kuboing>unless it's spam
15:38<blake>but that wouldn't be a problem on linode?
15:38<JshWright>35k well cached, fairly static requests would be trivial for a 512... 35k requests to a poorly written, bloated app could bring a _much_ larger server to its knees
15:38<propercoil>ajmitch : images are in amazon s3 stack, each visit cost a XML include + 2 html includes
15:38<tjfontaine>blake: to hijack your stream they'd have to perform some serious feats
15:38<JshWright>blake: if you're that worried, just encrypt the traffic
15:38<@pparadis>DrJ: there's no cap on inbound transfer. the cap is on _outbound_
15:38<@pparadis>AviMarcus ^
15:39<@pparadis>s/cap/default rate limit/
15:39<blake>JshWright: encrypting mysql traffic gives a huge performance hit
15:39<@pparadis>it took me a minute to realize what you were doing.
15:39<Kuboing>pparadis: wait, I thought the bandwidth pool was for both incoming and outgoing?
15:39<JshWright>blake: no it doesn't
15:39<@pparadis>Kuboing: that has nothing to do with this.
15:39<@pparadis>Kuboing: 15:39 <@pparadis> s/cap/default rate limit/
15:39<propercoil>Kuboing: then both chartbeat and google analytics are wrong okay
15:39<JshWright>it's a _little_ overhead, but it's not that bad at all
15:39*ajmitch could probably never hit 50Mbps testing from NZ
15:39<Kuboing>propercoil: I'm just saying it's an unlikely figure
15:40<JshWright>propercoil: so the site is serving static resources?
15:40<propercoil>Kuboing i'm not trying to impress, just looking for service
15:40<tjfontaine>blake: and almost any other form of "private" you're being sold contains more overhead than just ssl
15:40<JshWright>(dynamic includes of static files, that is)
15:40<linbot>New news from forums: URL/IP trimming to prevent errors in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
15:40<propercoil>yes static + a little bit of mysql
15:41<JshWright>propercoil: how hard is the database getting hit?
15:41<@pparadis>propercoil: as an example, people serve a *lot* more traffic than what you're talking about from linode 512s. it depends entirely on how you configure your stuff.
15:41<propercoil>JshWright not much. i use a CronJob to output XML files every 20 minutes, php takes it from there
15:42<@pparadis>how much caching are you doing?
15:42<TheFirst>and how short of a timespan the hits come in ... too many at the same time and you can't do much against essentially a ddos
15:42<propercoil>currently using Zend caching
15:42<@pparadis>TheFirst: that again depends on how you've configured your stuff.
15:42<JshWright>propercoil: sounds like it would be pretty easy to throw a load balancer in front of this and scale it out as much as you need
15:42<Captain_Intern>what happened periphilion?
15:42<TheFirst>pparadis: well yeah ... but there's always some number that'll fill the pipe up...nothing's infinite
15:43<@pparadis>TheFirst: that's really not in the scope of what we're discussing here.
15:43<propercoil>JshWright thanks a bunch
15:43-!-duckydan [] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
15:43<blake>linode is the same price as rackspace cloud, but rackspace doesn't include ANY bandwidth
15:44<sirpengi>also linode is 9001x better
15:44<JshWright>how much logic goes into the includes? is it strictly based on the URL?
15:44<@pparadis>blake: i think you'll also find the performance and service to be excellent as well.
15:44<blake>i guess i just need to figure out what the bw overage cost is on linode per GB
15:44<@Praefectus>blake: $0.15 per GB
15:44<blake>cheaper than rackspace
15:44<@Praefectus>unless you buy additional transfer in advance, then its $0.10 per GB
15:44<propercoil>JshWright yes, for example include ('xmldata.xml') that's it
15:45<propercoil>or include ('map.html')
15:45-!-Boohemian [] has joined #linode
15:45<blake>i'm *really* tempted to switch back
15:45<tjfontaine>shouldn't have switched in the first place :)
15:45<blake>well i was without a VPS for a long time
15:45<blake>then i decided on rackspace because they were a larger company and had hourly billing
15:45<ajmitch>propercoil: you could set up a test site on a 512, do some load testing, then decide from there
15:46<JshWright>propercoil: I don't see any reason you couldn't run this on a 512... maybe move MySQL off to its own 512
15:46-!-Boohemian [] has quit []
15:46<propercoil>ajmitch JshWright thanks you both i will do that now
15:47<tjfontaine>(separation of concerns)++
15:47<propercoil>*thank you
15:47<blake>propercoil: just keep in mind that you may get downstreamed if you're using too many resources ;-)
15:47-!-Perihelion [] has joined #linode
15:47-!-mode/#linode [+o Perihelion] by ChanServ
15:47-!-cerealk [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:47<Captain_Intern>Perihelion, zomg.
15:47-!-Bhavicp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:48-!-duckydan [] has joined #linode
15:48<@Perihelion>Captain_Intern: zomg.
15:49-!-clanehin [] has joined #linode
15:49<synapt>zomg, zomg.
15:49-!-ahyes [~mikey@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:49<Captain_Intern>Perihelion, I'm having a CRS moment.
15:51<@Perihelion>I just lost the game.
15:51<@Perihelion>(Totally just thought of Consumer Recreation Services)
15:51<Bartzy>Hey guys
15:51<Bartzy>I currently have a problem of bandwidth
15:51<Bartzy>What options do I have to resolve this ? Store on S3 ?
15:51<Bartzy>Or it will be as expensive as linode's bandwidth ?
15:52<Captain_Intern>Can't Remember Shit
15:52<tjfontaine>buy more linodes and pool bw
15:52<Captain_Intern>Perihelion, ^^
15:53-!-dal [] has joined #linode
15:53<@Perihelion>The CRS I mentioned is a fake company in a movie called The Game
15:53<Bartzy>tjfontaine: But linode's bandwidth is very expensive
15:53<Bartzy>meaning buying a linode when I only need bandwidth
15:53<@Praefectus>$0.10 per GB is expensive?
15:53<Bartzy>Ok you are right :|
15:53<JshWright>it kinda is, actually...
15:53<@pparadis>Bartzy: how do you figure that?
15:54<Captain_Intern>What's everyones twitter clients?
15:54<Bartzy>JshWright: S3 is more expensive
15:54<@Praefectus>JshWright: for an end user no, it isnt
15:54<@Praefectus>if you were a provider, then yes, it is
15:54<@Perihelion>Captain_Intern: Tweet Deck...looking for moar bettar replacement
15:54<@Perihelion>I started a command line Python one but got bored
15:55<Bartzy>pparadis: I have linode 768, it's enough for me in terms of RAM and CPU, but I do 15-20GB of bandwidth (outgoing + ingoing) per day.. I'm going to pass the limit
15:55<duckydan>Captain_Intern: twitter for iPad
15:55<Bartzy>pparadis: So I guess maybe I'll buy another linode 512 and break my services to 2 nodes ?
15:55<@pparadis>Bartzy: you do have to pay for what you use.
15:55<@pparadis>Bartzy: that doesn't make it "expensive"
15:56<@pparadis>Bartzy: that simply means you're doing a lot of transfer, and bits aren't free.
15:56<Bartzy>pparadis: You are correct. Sorry for just saying "expensive"... when you put it in $ per GB, it's indeed not expensive :)
15:56<Captain_Intern>Perihelion, same. I tried gwibber but it just died today.
15:56<@pparadis>Bartzy: word :)
15:56<Bartzy>Anyway you guys know to monitor what is taking all my traffic ?
15:56-!-joint [] has joined #linode
15:56<Captain_Intern>duckydan, so you leave your ipad next to your keyboard?
15:56<@pparadis>Bartzy: wait, you don't know what's causing that?
15:56<joint>how do i access ftp from Linode ?
15:56<Kuboing>what uses less energy? a laptop or a desktop? (With about the same hardware on both)
15:57<blake>i've been running an ircd on his linode, got a 50k botnet on there
15:57<AviMarcus>usually laptop
15:57<Bartzy>I have a photos app, around 4GB of photos are downloaded...
15:57<blake>you just noticed the traffic use, Bartzy?
15:57<robinetd>Kuboing: What weighs more, a pound of rocks or a pound of feathers?
15:57<JshWright>laptop hardware is designed with energy efficiency in mind
15:57<Kuboing>robinetd: a pound of lead
15:57<Bartzy>blake: No, I just didn't think it's important, until I saw that I'm going to pass the limit
15:57<@pparadis>Bartzy: if you're moving a lot of images, that traffic would make sense.
15:57<blake>you just asked how to figure out what's causing all the usage
15:58<AviMarcus>Bartzy, upto 40TB, amazon s3 is 15c per gig
15:58<Kuboing>I will probably put together a craptop
15:58-!-chesty [] has quit [Quit: This host has violated network policies.]
15:58<duckydan>Captain_Intern: I actually do all my work on it. With a bt keyboard. 95% of my work, at least. I VNC into a Linux box for the other 5%
15:58<Bartzy>pparadis: Yeah but anyway to monitor that ?
15:58<AviMarcus>1st gig is free, though :')
15:58<blake>AviMarcus: S3 is more expensive than linode bw?
15:58<joint>@pparadis - How do i access FTP with Linode?
15:58<linbot>Please use SSH/SCP/SFTP/rsync-over-ssh instead of FTP:
15:58<@pparadis>we don't install anything for you by default aside from an sshd.
15:58<AviMarcus>blake, but for >150TB/month it's only 8c/gb :P
15:59<Bartzy>pparadis: I can't seem to calculate how I transfer 12GB per day OUT of my linode
15:59<joint>@pparadis - I cant even access SSH
15:59-!-propercoil [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
15:59<AviMarcus>and if you need many, many hundreds of GB of storade, s3 is a good place to store it, Bartzy
15:59<Bartzy>pparadis: I want to monitor it somehow... I can account for around 6GB...
15:59*Captain_Intern Hates skype on Ubuntu
15:59<@pparadis>joint: also, this is IRC, not twitter, s/@//
15:59<@pparadis>joint: have you seen this?
15:59<AviMarcus>Bartzy, traffic allotment is for both in and out
15:59<Bartzy>I know
16:00<Bartzy>but I saw that my out is 12GB
16:00<joint>When i try to log in in .. after putting in my user and password it logs me in linux / ubunut shell and prompts me for another login
16:00<Bartzy>and I can't account for all of it :)
16:00<Bartzy>So I wanted to monitor it some how
16:00<AviMarcus>install iftop and take a look at it?
16:00<Bartzy>maybe I can optimize my app
16:00-!-Bass10 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:00<@pparadis>joint: logging in with what?
16:00<Bartzy>iftop is immediate
16:00-!-Captain_Intern [~Captain_I@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:00<@pparadis>joint: are you actually logging into your linode's IP address, or are you logging into lish?
16:00<joint>my Linode's user and pass
16:00<@pparadis>joint: have you looked at the link i just sent you?
16:01<joint>Yes i have .. i Have followed those directions to no avail
16:01-!-Inerailnet [] has joined #linode
16:01<@pparadis>you need to log into your linode's IP address as "root" using the root password you set when you deployed it.
16:01<@pparadis>you're not doing that, you're logging into lish.
16:02-!-chesty [] has joined #linode
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16:02<joint>ah I see
16:02-!-chesty_ [] has joined #linode
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16:03<Bartzy>Anyone has any idea on how to monitor my bandwidth usage ?
16:03<joint>thank you pparadis
16:03<Bartzy>meaning what took my bandwidth ?
16:03<@pparadis>joint: you're welcome!
16:03<blake>"You can also roll your own distribution and upload it."
16:03<blake>how does that work?
16:03<blake>how would i "roll" a distribution?
16:03<@pparadis>Bartzy: there are many packages available to monitor web server stats.
16:03<@pparadis>Bartzy: have you googled around for this?
16:04<tjfontaine>!library custom distribution
16:04<linbot>tjfontaine: 1. Run Custom Kernels and Distribution Templates on Linode Instances ( - 2. Run a Custom Compiled Kernel with PV-GRUB ( - 3. Running a Custom Linux Distro on a Linode VPS (
16:04<tjfontaine>blake: #3
16:04<blake>ah, finnix
16:04<@pparadis>blake: that's just used as part of it.
16:05*ajmitch wonders if debian gnu/hurd would run on linode :)
16:06<@pparadis>can it run as a xen guest?
16:06-!-Boohemian [] has joined #linode
16:06-!-AndreiC [~AndreiC@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
16:06<@pparadis>ajmitch: you tell us then :)
16:06<ajmitch>I haven't tried it for a few years, I tend to like having a useful system to run :)
16:07<@pparadis>every now and again i'll go play with beos.
16:08<ajmitch>I think I had GNOME partly working on it, since they they fixed mach so that it could play nicely as a domU
16:08-!-joint [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
16:08-!-seanh-ansca [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:08<blake>i always felt like linode was more for enthusiasts while companies were more likely to go with rackspace. any truth to that? do you guys have many companies with servers on linode?
16:09<@pparadis>none at all.
16:09<tjfontaine>haha ok, that's a troll question
16:09<@pparadis>there are a shitload of companies using linode.
16:10<@pparadis>although i think tjfontaine is right.
16:10<blake>it wasn't a troll question, haha
16:10<blake>i swear
16:10<robinetd>rackspace? Super cloud!
16:10<ajmitch>maybe if there were more images of clouds on the front page, more companies would use linode?
16:10<robinetd>We've got clouds, there are no servers \o/
16:10<blake>i always just felt as though most people on linode were individuals who used their machines to tinker, experiment, and develop on
16:11<@pparadis>blake: that's faulty logic.
16:11<blake>yeah, probably
16:11<@pparadis>absence of proof is not proof of absence. you're talking about something you don't have any means of measuring.
16:11<JshWright>blake: I run two business ventures on Linodes
16:11<JshWright> and
16:11<tjfontaine>you probably just felt that way because the average iq of a linode customer is higher
16:11<ajmitch>maybe more of the people on IRC are, but you probably don't hear of the vast majority of customers because it Just Works
16:11<blake>pparadis: that's not true, i've gone through linode IP ranges to see what people are hosting before
16:11<blake>and it's lots of personal sites and stuff :-P
16:12<tjfontaine>pparadis: if you have a public ip you must host websites!
16:12<@pparadis>blake: really, when was that? because i'm straight up telling you i'm aware of a very large number of businesses using linode.
16:12<blake>few years ago
16:12<@pparadis>also, tjfontaine once again
16:12<AviMarcus>I'm hosting a VoIP server on linode, I sell voip services. So that's at least one business ;)
16:12<@pparadis>blake: our IP space is, um, let's just say appreciably larger now...
16:13<blake>AviMarcus: what's your voip company?
16:13<AviMarcus>not very big, heh
16:13-!-entropax [] has joined #linode
16:13<blake>what do you run? asterix?
16:13<@pparadis>the simple fact is that you're really not going to see a whole lot of admins from notable companies hanging out in #linode, at least not ones who ack who they actually work for.
16:14<blake>AviMarcus: can you show me your voip company website?
16:14<AviMarcus>heh it's kinda crummy.
16:16<@pparadis>blake: to give you another example, i was a linode customer for 5 years before working here, and i personally set up a lot of companies' stuff on linodes back then. in any event, it's all rather pointless to discuss, since i can't talk about who uses us :)
16:16<blake>pparadis: household name companies, though?
16:16<@pparadis>blake: yes, you would definitely recognize them.
16:16<AviMarcus>blake, I don't understand what the point of this conversation is
16:16<@pparadis>there really isn't one.
16:17-!-Boohemian [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
16:17<linbot>New news from forums: Just Wonderful in Customer Testimonials <>
16:17<blake>it's just a conversation, it doesn't necessarily have a "point"
16:17<jaskal>omegle uses linode, if you can call that household :p
16:17<blake>don't take offense, AviMarcus
16:17<blake>i have an AWS account, but i find EC2 far too confusing
16:17<@pparadis>actually, one site that we are okay to say uses us is
16:18<blake>i couldn't wrap my head around all the different "instances" and sizes and crap
16:18<blake>they created their own terminology for *everything*
16:18<@pparadis>you've gotta have an advanced degree in mathematics to grok their pricing.
16:18<blake>haha, very true.
16:18<blake>plus, i was just trying to deploy a vanilla debian "instance" and couldn't find one
16:21<blake>they even use linode dns, heh
16:21<blake>the onion
16:22-!-robinetd [~robinetd@] has quit [Quit: back in a bit]
16:23*Karrde uses you
16:23<@pparadis>in soviet russia?
16:24<Karrde>.. in America
16:24<pharaun>the soviet united states of america \o/
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16:39<czr2>guys i need to fnd my MX records
16:39<czr2>how do i do that
16:39<jaskal>who hosts your dns?
16:40-!-Sputnik7 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:41<czr2>they are saying since the stuff is on linode
16:41<sirpengi>find the MX records that you're using currently?
16:41<czr2>ask those guys
16:41<sirpengi>or the MX records that you need to put in to get your email working?
16:41<jaskal>czr2: whats your domain?
16:41<czr2>so i am trying to get inbound emails
16:41<JshWright>wait a second... why am I seeing czr?
16:42<sirpengi>so you're running an MTA on your linode and you'd like it to receive messages?
16:42<AviMarcus>czr2, I'm not sure you need to find your mx. I think you need to learn about sys admin..
16:42<JshWright>oh, you're using the web client and a different nick...
16:42<czr2>well i setuped the citadel
16:42<czr2>and now i am able to send emails from my lonode
16:43<czr2>but ot able to recieve them
16:43<Kyhwana>Isn't there a library thing on setting up an email server?
16:44<czr2>wait so i setup smtp now??
16:45<Kyhwana>er, yeah, you need a smtp server setup for your mail server to get mail
16:45<czr2>ahh ok but i see no guides on the forums here
16:45<czr2>any pointers or guides
16:47<AviMarcus>!library smtp
16:47<linbot>AviMarcus: 1. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Debian 6 (Squeeze) ( - 2. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick) ( - 3. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) (
16:47<AviMarcus>I think there are a few guides..
16:48-!-benj2 [] has joined #linode
16:48-!-Boohemian_ [~Boohemian@] has joined #linode
16:48<benj2>My account is pending.. how much time would it take? no one has send me even an email
16:50<benj2>is ther an admin here?
16:50-!-nuclear [] has joined #linode
16:51-!-Boohemian_ [~Boohemian@] has quit []
16:51<czr2>all guide links are broken
16:52<benj2>it took to effect just now, thanks Avi
16:52<czr2>also in the email section it doesn't talk about smtp server setup
16:52<@pparadis>czr2: what?
16:52<AviMarcus>czr2, are you committed to learning system administration? if not, perhaps you should find someone to pay to mange your system for you...
16:53<@pparadis>czr2: what does "broken" mean?
16:53-!-duckydan [] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
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16:54<czr2>haha yeah totally, or else i wound't have been able to setup up a rails app in two day
16:55<czr2>it is just that i am not able to find links for receving inbound emails
16:55<czr2>with citadel
16:55<czr2>i didn't wanted to use postfix
16:55<lamerson1>I've found the API doucmentation for tieig into Linode, is there any documentation about how linsode was designed? The backend?
16:55<lamerson1>This is a really really impressive project
16:55<czr2>by broken i mean they don't work
16:55<@pparadis>czr2: i used to recommend citadel for beginners. i don't anymore, since it's largely turned into a pile of crap.
16:56<czr2>for example this one MX records
16:56<@pparadis>works for me.
16:56<czr2>my bad for example this one
16:56<czr2>whiwas mentioned earlier
16:56<@pparadis>that is a send-only configuration.
16:56<@pparadis>that link also works.
16:57<czr2>ik I said i have citadel working
16:57<czr2>and been able to send email
16:57<czr2>it is the receving emails
16:57<czr2>is where i am having problems
16:58<@pparadis>i'm trying to get you to explain what this means: "16:51 < czr2> all guide links are broken"
16:58<@pparadis>but honestly, i've completely stopped recommending citadel.
16:58<@pparadis>was there a reason you didn't want to use postfix?
16:58<@pparadis>it's enormously popular, and for good reason.
16:59<czr2>ohh my bad the htree links mentioned ealier were broken not all the guide links
16:59<czr2>they are working fine and well documented
16:59<czr2>my rails app will be hitting about 400MB of ram
16:59<czr2>most of the time
16:59<dominikh>per worker?
16:59<czr2>so i figured not to stress it with postfix
17:00-!-entropi [~entropi@] has joined #linode
17:00<@pparadis>czr2: have you actually looked at postfix ram usage?
17:00<czr2>but on doc it says it is full fledged
17:00<czr2>sytem so i figured all ai nnedd
17:00<czr2>need issend and recive emails
17:00<@pparadis>how did you interpret that to mean anything but "sends and receives email?"
17:01<dominikh>all you need is a new keyboard it seems.
17:01-!-benj2 [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
17:01<@pparadis>czr2: i have a mail server running postfix/dovecot/mysql, and it's using a whopping 40 MB of RAM _total_
17:01<@pparadis>you cannot assume things like that.
17:02-!-entropax [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:02<czr2>so the chat client is being shitty chromes message window is hidding the message i am typing
17:02<@pparadis>use irssi
17:02<czr2>so can't see what i typed untill i hit enter
17:02<@pparadis>or anything else
17:02<@pparadis>this is an easily solved problem.
17:02<@heckman>Yeah, Chrome has that awesome hovering status bar.
17:02<@heckman>It just kinda sucks with the chat client. lol
17:02-!-orudie [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:04-!-user1690 [] has joined #linode
17:04<czr2>nvm switched to firefox temp
17:04<czr2>i am user1690
17:04-!-czr2 [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
17:04<user1690>anyways so is postfix the answers to all this problems with smtp setup and stuff
17:05<user1690>cause citadel is indeed giving headache on this one
17:05<@pparadis>user1690: you should try things out and ask for help with any specific problems you encounter.
17:05<@pparadis>after researching the problems yourself, and consulting your logs, of course.
17:05<user1690>so problem is
17:05<user1690>i need to find mx entries
17:06<user1690>according to one forum post
17:06<user1690>and use that in citadel
17:06<user1690>to be able to receive inbound mail
17:06<linbot>IRC supports complete sentences. Less <CR> more content, please.
17:06<user1690>which is why i was asking where i find those earlier
17:07<@pparadis>you don't find them anywhere, you create them or edit existing ones.
17:07-!-lanthan [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:07-!-paszo2008 [] has quit []
17:08*heckman still needs to get OpenVPN working
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17:50*encode has ClosedVPN working fine
17:51*pparadis runs PartiallyShutVPN
17:51*Praefectus uses walled-inVPN
17:52*lamerson1 poops
17:52*Kuboing uses whore-VPN
17:54<lamerson1>;/ ;/
17:55*lamerson1 flushes
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18:03<encode>I prefer using Actual Private Networks, rather than Virtual ones
18:04<encode>unfortunately that pretty much limits me to SneakerNet
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18:20<jhford>when i try to run screen, i get a warning that I am out of PTYs. am i supposed to be able to get PTYs?
18:20<KingTarquin>I wonder if anyone can help me. I've created a vServer in cherokee which is designed to show the contents of a directory so I can provide files for users to download from the server, but the vServer I've created is 404'ing. I've checked the permissions, tried multiple permission combinations, tried various user and group combinations, and various settings in Cherokee, yet to no avail.
18:21-!-user1690 [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
18:24<lsabota>jhford: try chmod 666 /dev/ptmx
18:26<@psandin>jhford: what distribution? and is the automount devtmpfs option on in the Linode Manager?
18:26<KingTarquin>I asked in #cherokee on FN as well, and they said to check the Directory Root setting, which is one of the first things I did! :/
18:27-!-Fieldy [] has joined #linode
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18:29<axod>any network issues? :/
18:30<chesty_>yes, the internet is down
18:30<HoopyCat>i'm out of cable
18:30<@psandin>axod: which DC?
18:31<axod>psandin: not sure yet :/
18:31<axod>just a couple of things don't look quite right...
18:31<HoopyCat>the internet is, at least between me and newark, fine, aside from not being able to reach the park down the street
18:32<@Praefectus>axod: acid has that effect, its normal
18:34<Fieldy>some (not all) users are reporting timeouts to my site (atlanta), curiously i see plenty of hits from asia
18:34<axod>looks like a possible ddos :( blerg
18:35<Fieldy>axod: against you or something wider-targeted?
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19:21<MJCS>lol Imagine Bandwidth
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19:26<Fieldy> has anyone managed to get kernel 2.6.38 vanilla with a custom config to work with their systems? I haven't been able to get anything past to boot. here is the console output: and here is my .config for 2.6.38:
19:26<jkwood>Fieldy: On linode?
19:26<Fieldy>jkwood: yeah :)
19:27<jkwood>You're working with pv-grub?
19:27<Fieldy>yes, I am
19:27<jkwood>Ah. Well, there goes my theory, sorry.
19:27<Fieldy>thanks for giving it a fling, I appreciate it
19:28<HoopyCat>this sounds like a job for git bisect
19:28*HoopyCat ducks, runs
19:29*jkwood gooses HoopyCat and walks like an Egyptian
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19:32<jhford>gah, the world just blew up at work
19:33<HoopyCat>good thing you're a safe distance away
19:33<jhford>i am right at it :(
19:33-!-lamerson1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:34<HoopyCat>oh. well, sucks.
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19:43<eyecool>anyone have a compelling reason for using the OS u use for nginx?
19:44-!-atourino [~oftc@] has joined #linode
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19:45<Peng>eyecool: Check what version of nginx is in the distro's package system/
19:45<JshWright>eyecool: huh?
19:45<benj2>Hello all, i'm looking to mimic a 1k users in my web site, any suggestions on how to load test my site?
19:46<eyecool>I'm a heavy centos user... took a stab at debian last night. it practically gave me a panic attack. I felt like I was on the LOST island.
19:47<eyecool>I don't know if it was Squeeze or the stack script, but I got pinched..
19:48-!-lukus [~luke@] has joined #linode
19:48<eyecool>I'm hoping someone says "FreeBSD, and here's why"... I'll bat my eyes and say ok.. heh
19:48<HoopyCat>eyecool: i use ubuntu for nginx, because i use ubuntu for pretty much everything else and it includes nginx. generally, the best distribution for $foo is the distribution that you'd use for anything else.
19:48<lukus>hi - I don't have access to my control panel password - I clicked .. reset password - and I've been told that instructions 'may' have been emailed to - could anyone advise?
19:49-!-integral [] has joined #linode
19:49<eyecool>HoopyCat: do you use LTS?
19:49<chesty>he uses LSD
19:49<JshWright>he still uses 8.04
19:49<HoopyCat>benj2: well, you can use something like 'ab' to do a number of requests concurrently over some time period
19:49<JshWright>(I have proof)
19:50<lukus>HoopyCat; thx
19:50<HoopyCat>eyecool: most current LTS at the time a machine is built
19:50<eyecool>I'm trying to find out what Igor uses on and #ngnix went silent
19:50<benj2>HoopyCall what is ab?
19:50-!-flowbee [] has joined #linode
19:50<JshWright>benj42 what is google?
19:51<benj2>does he mean ab testing?
19:51<chesty>ab would be hard to google
19:51<eyecool>yes.. but not as in blood type
19:51<HoopyCat>eyecool: probably either noone knows or noone cares. :-) except in very few instances, it doesn't matter in the actual day-to-day operations of things
19:51<atourino>benj2: ab is a tool to perform load testing
19:51<meltphace>um, apache benchmark?
19:51<benj2>sorry i'm a php programmer, have no knowledge in servers etc
19:51<HoopyCat>benj2: "Apache benchmark", which isn't specifically Apache but is usually found near it
19:52*Ovron puts on a sad face
19:52<HoopyCat>benj2: 'course, the hard part is figuring out how to simulate 1000 users
19:52<eyecool>HoopyCat: I'm hoping someone says "FreeBSD" and here's why...
19:52<HoopyCat>benj2: it's usually a lot easier to simulate page views...
19:52<eyecool>but I think the chances of that are slim to none
19:53<benj2>thank HoopyCall i'll look into it
19:53<HoopyCat>eyecool: you're a masochist and centos isn't giving you the jollies it used to? :-)
19:53<atourino>eyecool: I hope your not a scientist ;)
19:53*atourino crosses fingers
19:53<atourino>your -> you're
19:54<eyecool>atourino: I'm the elements Barium Carbon Oxygen Nitrogen..
19:55<eyecool>HoopyCat: I love love love centos... but I'm losing the faith
19:55-!-MJCS-away [] has joined #linode
19:56<eyecool>there are serious gaps in repos... and dotdeb looked lovely
19:57<HoopyCat>eyecool: that's not a CentOS problem, that's a RHEL problem. and it's not a RHEL problem as much as it is a tradeoff for having a commercially-supported OS
19:58-!-MJCS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:58<eyecool>I'm using debian for a db linode and love it... but I hit the wall with sockets, users and apt last night... I literally didn't sleep
19:58<Ovron>apt giving you issues?
19:58<eyecool>HoopyCat: yep... hence I'm losing my religion
19:59-!-Bhavicp [] has joined #linode
19:59<chesty>that's me in the corner
19:59<HoopyCat>if i'm going to have the pain of not having commercial support, i at least want to have the ability to get work done! :-)
19:59<eyecool>the concept of apt, and the a bunch of other details you'd think would be insignificant....
19:59-!-fmw [] has joined #linode
20:01<chesty>it's not a terrible idea to learn both centos and debian
20:01<HoopyCat>i just wish the alternative weren't fedora
20:01<@pparadis>chesty: i thought that was you in the spotlight.
20:01<@pparadis>HoopyCat: SL
20:01<HoopyCat>pparadis: i was hoping you'd segue into that
20:01-!-foreverwondering [] has joined #linode
20:02<@pparadis>HoopyCat: it's just so... nice, comparitively speaking.
20:02-!-benj2 [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
20:02-!-atourino [~oftc@] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
20:04<chesty>pparadis: hmmm, I must of said too much
20:04-!-v0lksman [] has joined #linode
20:04<@pparadis>chesty: i haven't said enough.
20:04<checkers>learn both centos and debian? They're linux, the only difference is the location of files in /etc
20:05<@pparadis>chesty: hahahahahaha
20:05<jhford>dude, rpm vs deb?
20:05<@pparadis>checkers, rather ^^^
20:05<jhford>not that one is better or something, but they are very different
20:05<@pparadis>extra emphasis on the "hahahahahahahahaha"
20:05<HoopyCat>checkers: and the package management commands, the various config helpers, the default assumptions...
20:05*jkwood points out that learning Slackware is learning Linux. Anything else is... whatever those wannabe distros are
20:05<checkers>jhford: very different?
20:05<Peng>jkwood: LFS!
20:05<jkwood>Peng: No.
20:05<@pparadis>checkers: tell you what, spend a couple of years writing and maintaining docs for those, then come back and talk to me.
20:06<Peng>Slackware is Slackware. Linux from Scratch is *Linux*.
20:06<HoopyCat>eyecool: + = say goodbye to your weekend
20:06<eyecool>ok... good chat going on in #nginx on freenode
20:06<jhford>depending on who you ask, its gnu/linux, linux, gnu, gnu linux, linux gnu
20:06<eyecool>Igor uses fFreeBSD
20:06<@pparadis>eyecool: good news is it's actually _really_ easy to get SL running on a linode.
20:07<chesty>two differences that sometimes catch me out, rpm overwrites config files and backs the old ones to .rpmsave, debian doesn't touch configs unless you tell it to. rmp doesn't reload a daemon on update, debian does
20:07<eyecool>and then everyone else uses everything else... LMAO.. so not much help.. I guess it's like preferring dogs over cats
20:09<eyecool>pparadis: SL?
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20:11<eyecool>yeah.. as HoopyCat said = say goodbye to my weekend
20:11<HoopyCat>disregard females, acquire ISOs
20:11<eyecool>I was so pissed off last night, I even considered switching back to Apache... that;s how bent out of shape I was
20:12<chesty>apache rocks in the right place
20:12<chesty>nginx for static files, apache for php
20:12<eyecool>considering I swore off apache 2 or 3 years ago, that was huge
20:12<HoopyCat>apache's a pretty dank PHP application server
20:13-!-danraad [] has quit []
20:13<eyecool>I lost the faith in apache the same way I've started to lose the faith with cent
20:13-!-axod [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
20:14<HoopyCat>fix the root cause of your anguish; ditch PHP
20:14-!-dbb [] has left #linode []
20:14<jkwood>Ruby. on. Rails.
20:15<HoopyCat>once you've changed everything else, yet you still fail, you quickly find that the only two common elements are yourself and PHP
20:16-!-jhford [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
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20:16<eyecool>I haven't lost faith in php, but I have been playing with python for a few months
20:17<benj2>my apache ab test is useless.. i'm doing it from the same server
20:17<HoopyCat>and i dunno about you guys, but if it's either me or PHP jumping in front of a train, it ain't gonna be me
20:17<Peng>benj2: It's not totally useless.
20:18<benj2>Peng How is that?
20:18<Peng>benj2: What makes you think it is useless?
20:18<HoopyCat>benj2: if you're trying to test your application, that's probably the best way to do it
20:18<HoopyCat>benj2: the internet is an extremely huge variable
20:18<benj2>my tetst : ab -n 1000 -c 40
20:19<jkwood>Did it break?
20:19<benj2>my result
20:19<benj2>Concurrency Level: 40 Time taken for tests: 0.187 seconds Complete requests: 1000 Failed requests: 0 Write errors: 0 Non-2xx responses: 1000 Total transferred: 494000 bytes HTML transferred: 291000 bytes Requests per second: 5352.17 [#/sec] (mean) Time per request: 7.474 [ms] (mean) Time per request: 0.187 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests) Transfer rate: 2582.01 [Kbytes/sec] rec
20:19<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
20:20<HoopyCat>benj2: that's pretty good.
20:20<benj2>okay sorry
20:20<HoopyCat>7.5 milliseconds/request means the internet's going to be the bottleneck, which is the way it ought to be
20:21-!-seanh-ansca [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:21<benj2>okay.. how can i check with ab what would happen when i get 2000 page views a minute?
20:22<eyecool>want some help with that?
20:22<HoopyCat>benj2: well, you just tested what it did when you get 1000 HTTP requests in, uhh, 0.187 seconds
20:22<Ovron>you had around 5352.17 per second in your above test
20:23<HoopyCat>benj2: so, assuming a page view is one HTTP request(*), you probably are well beyond that
20:23<benj2>wow that's awesome when you think about it
20:23<HoopyCat>benj2: (and also assuming you're testing your actual application in a realistic fashion and not just hitting a static page :-)
20:24<benj2>just plain php with an html include
20:24<eyecool>benj2: now that's not really a test, is it?
20:24<eyecool>that's a tease
20:24<HoopyCat>benj2: any database involvement? (that really starts to slow things down a lot)
20:24<benj2>eyecool: what do you mean?
20:25<benj2>HoopyCat: no database
20:25<HoopyCat>(afk, food)
20:25<eyecool>you've got to load it up with lots of db calls!
20:25<benj2>i have a cron job outputing everything to html every hour
20:25<eyecool>HoopyCat: meomix
20:28<lukus>hi - if I resize my disk image, is the process non-destructive?
20:28<lukus>do I need to shutdown my linode first?
20:29<eyecool>don't size it smaller than the amount of data it's holding.. and yes shut down first
20:30<eyecool>backups for $5/mo are a bargain too
20:30<JshWright>it won't let you do anything that would result in data loss
20:31<JshWright>but if it did eat your data, you could just restore from your backups, right?
20:32<lukus>cool, thanks
20:32<AviMarcus>You can create a snapshot before you do it
20:32-!-benj2 [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
20:32<AviMarcus>only takes a few minutes
20:32<lukus>I'll do that - yep
20:41<AviMarcus>lukus, why are you resizing btw? downgrading a linode?
20:42<lukus>AviMarcus; I'm upgrade
20:42<AviMarcus>so you just upgraded, and now your expanding the disk?
20:42<lukus>so I should shutdown first?
20:42<lukus>then expand?
20:43<eyecool>lukus: I don't think you can mess it up... if you inadvertently try to do something "bad", it won't let you
20:43-!-entropax [] has joined #linode
20:43<lukus>okay, thx
20:44<AviMarcus>I don't think you can mess with a "live" disk
20:45<Yaakov>I am breaking the fast of Esther with a pizza that includes cheddar, fresh mozzerela, feta, kalamata olives, roasted red pepper, oyster mushrooms and fresh parsley.
20:48<jkwood>Yaakov: Sounds delicious. I hope it's a fitting end to a refreshing fast.
20:48<warewolf> NEEDS TO DIE
20:48<Yaakov>Oh, and jalapeño.
20:48<chesty>and then I'm going to down 5 cholesterol tablets
20:48<warewolf>DoSing the crap out of my smtp port on my linode
20:48<lukus>I just tried the resize and received the following: lv_resize: Image is currently snapshotted
20:49<amitz>sissy jalapeno.
20:49-!-synapt [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:49<lukus>(as an error)
20:49<amitz>lukus: wait a bit, a backup process is currently running
20:49<Ovron>lukus: wait a few minutes; probably post-processing of the backup
20:49<Ovron>amitz: >:(
20:50<lukus>amitz; how long should I wait?
20:50<amitz>Ovron: it's okay, your message is more **********-y.
20:50-!-blaines [~blaines@] has joined #linode
20:50<Ovron>I try, fellow ********** brother!
20:51<amitz>lukus: when did you first activate your backup service? when was the last new deployment of your linode?
20:51<lukus>the linode has been running for a good few months
20:51<lukus>I just upgraded it
20:51<lukus>took a snapshot
20:51-!-entropax [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:52<lukus>and now I want to make use of the extra disk space
20:52<lukus>backup's been on from the start
20:52<amitz>basically as slow/fast as your typical differential backup.
20:52<Ovron>what is the status of the back, "needsPostProcessing" or something?
20:52<Ovron>backup *
20:52<lukus>it's complete
20:53<lukus>but I'd like to expand the space before I sleep
20:53<lukus>and before my clients wake up
20:53<amitz>can you try again?
20:53<Ovron>perhaps they wait a bit with releasing the LVM snapshot (which is how I presume they do backups). We can't really answer that. :)
20:53<Ovron>releasing = destroying
20:54<lukus>I don't want to destroy anything tho
20:54<lukus>that's the stuff of nightmares
20:55<Ovron>(it wouldn't destroy anything of importance to you, just an intermediate step in the backup process)
20:56<lukus>I took the snapshot for a reason though
20:56<lukus>(eg. incase this bit goes wrong ;)
20:56<Ovron>Yes, it is a different snapshot. Sorry if I have confused you. Don't worry, your snapshot won't be deleted. ;)
20:57-!-azaghal [~azaghal@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:57<lukus>np Ovron
20:57<Yaakov>I forgot about the sun dried tomato and green onions that are also on the pizza.
20:57<Yaakov>Let me redo...
20:57<Ovron>Yaakov: sounds awesome
20:58<Yaakov>I am breaking the fast of Esther with a pizza that includes cheddar, fresh mozzerela, feta, kalamata olives, roasted red pepper, oyster mushrooms, jalapeño, sun dried tomato, green onion and fresh parsley.
20:58<Yaakov>There, that does it, I think.
20:58<amitz>I will prepare myself to blame Ovron for everything, such is the way of the **********.
20:58<Ovron>amitz: I already have a target myself for the chain of blame.
20:59<amitz>Ovron: very good, I never expect less than that.
20:59-!-Gika [] has quit [Quit: Gika]
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21:00<amitz>Yaakov: is it good to end a fast with such a variation of food?
21:00<lukus> no luck again
21:00<Yaakov>amitz: It doesn't hurt. You just have to be careful not to overeat.
21:00<lukus>I've submitted a support ticket
21:00-!-fmw [] has quit [Quit: fmw]
21:01<amitz>lukus: I guess sit and wait now.
21:01<lukus>thx for advice
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21:03<Captain_Intern>I think it's time to go eat dinner
21:03<eyecool>Captain_Intern: you mean breakfast>
21:04-!-Hoggs [] has joined #linode
21:04<Captain_Intern>eyecool, No I mean dinner.
21:04<Captain_Intern>It's 9PM
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21:36<Captain_Intern>Perihelion, I fail. :(
21:37<@Perihelion>Yes you do <3
21:37<Captain_Intern>At least I got some bits of love.
21:37<@Perihelion>HEARTS FOR ALL
21:39<@Perihelion>I kinda wanna go to bed now.
21:39<Captain_Intern>Then go to bed?
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21:41<ioioio>i d like to know if it is possible to make it so that edited files in a sshfs environment keep their group
21:41<Captain_Intern>ioioio, chmod g+s
21:42-!-DrJ [] has joined #linode
21:42-!-maku is now known as maku`off
21:42<ioioio>well I want them not to change group at all, if possible
21:42<DrJ>can you not view the current data in the dns manager for a slave domain?
21:42<DrJ>check and zone file are lined out
21:42-!-Einux [] has left #linode []
21:43<ioioio>if i have to change the group back everytime then it is not worth it
21:43<ioioio>the solution i see is changing th edeafult group of the user accessing the files
21:44<ioioio>but it is not optimal, in a ssh shell the group is not changed
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21:45<Hoggs>Perihelion: I have a hole in my hand :(
21:45<Hoggs>Dog bite!
21:45<@Perihelion>How did you manage that?
21:46-!-Einux [] has joined #linode
21:46<Hoggs>I lost a cup of blood and passed out
21:46<@Perihelion>Did you at least punch the dog?
21:46<Hoggs>It was my aunty's dog! :<
21:46<@Perihelion>So? :o
21:47<Hoggs>They want to put it down now, I feel bad! ;_;
21:47<@pparadis>why did the dog bite you?
21:48<Hoggs>I was petting his friend, and he came running at me... naturally I stuck my hand out for him to sniff
21:49<@Perihelion>If you had been wearing a Linode shirt this wouldn't have happened.
21:49<Hoggs>But then it would be covered in blood! D:
21:50<linbot>pparadis: Resentments are the rocket fuel that lives in the tip of my sabre.
21:50<@Perihelion>Nein. It would be covered in awesome.
21:50<@pparadis>that trigger is always somehow appropriate. i think sheen is pervasive.
21:51-!-karstensrage [] has joined #linode
21:51-!-snubby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
21:55-!-blaenk [~blaenk@] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
21:56-!-viewsrc [~viewsrc@] has quit [Quit: viewsrc]
22:01-!-ioioio [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
22:01<GLaDOSDan>I hear Linode is powered by Charlie Sheen's brain
22:05<Nivex>caker > Charlie Sheen
22:06<GLaDOSDan>Can caker bang 7 gram rocks and finish them?
22:06<Captain_Intern>Nivex and GLaDOSDan accounts will be banned in 5..4..3..2..1...
22:06<GLaDOSDan>Is his brain not from this particular terrestrial... realm?
22:07<GLaDOSDan>What Linode and Sheen have in common though is one thing
22:07<GLaDOSDan>They both have one speed. One gear. Awesome.
22:07<GLaDOSDan>If "Awesome" can be a 'gear'
22:07-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
22:08<@Perihelion>Bans for all \o/
22:08<HoopyCat>BANS! BANS! BANS! BANS! BANS!
22:08<Nivex>She bans! She bans!
22:08*linbot pours a round of bans
22:08<@pparadis>Perihelion: a chicken in every pot?
22:08<GLaDOSDan>Yay, bans
22:09<@Perihelion>And a cap in every ass
22:09-!-mathew [] has joined #linode
22:09-!-user1690 [] has joined #linode
22:09<mwalling>a jack in everyone's stomach
22:09<HoopyCat>rooty tooty point and shooty
22:09<user1690>wait so the backup can't restore the entire disk??
22:10<HoopyCat>user1690: it should restore the entire disk
22:10<@Perihelion>I have a migraine so no drinking
22:10<@Perihelion>I'm only on the computer because it doesn't matter what I do at this point :P
22:10<@pparadis>Perihelion: you need more serious meds, like heavy tranquilizers for example.
22:11<user1690>true that is what i though but i get - not enough free space --
22:11<@Perihelion>Doesn't halp
22:11<user1690>for chosing a nsapshot to restore
22:11<@pparadis>"If you do not have enough space on any particular Linode, you may resize your disk images, delete older disk images, or add additional disk space via the "Extras" tab in the Linode Manager."
22:11<HoopyCat>user1690: you'll need to create enough free space to restore the entire disk
22:11<@pparadis>also: "You'll be presented with a "details" screen, which will allow you to either select an existing Linode to restore the backup to, or add a new Linode."
22:11<user1690>so my partition was entire disk
22:11<@pparadis>user1690: did you read everything in that library guide?
22:11<user1690>so was the backup?
22:12<user1690>well that sucks that means i have to nuke the disk first
22:12<user1690>and then restore tha backup
22:12<HoopyCat>user1690: or resize it, or add another linode, or add more disk space temporarily
22:13<@pparadis>unless your disk's filesystem was actually full, the backup won't use the entire amount of space you had allocated to it. however, if you are already using all your space, you can resize the existing disk image or restore to another linode, as appropriate.
22:13<@pparadis>user1690: again, did you read that guide?
22:13<user1690>reading it
22:13<user1690>haha u guys
22:13<user1690>are funny like it
22:14<user1690>just bear with noob sys admin
22:15<@pparadis>user1690: should you elect to restore to another linode, please read this for any questions on how billing is handled -->
22:15-!-Majes [~Majes@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:15<@pparadis>user1690: also, /nick
22:17-!-maushu [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:17<user1690>so i read the guid now the question is my disk size was 16gb (resized to full capacity ) so the restore image says not enough space. So In order to restore right away i don't see any option that you guys suggested earlier
22:17<user1690>as in add more space temporarily
22:18<user1690>is that right?
22:18<@pparadis>user1690: do you not know how to resize a disk image?
22:18<user1690>i did ended up using 14 gb of it
22:18<user1690>so i don't see any point in restoring it
22:18<user1690>i mean resizing it
22:19<@pparadis>if you're actually using 14 GB out of it, then you can either add extra disk space from the "extras" tab, or you can restore to another linode, get the files you want from that, then cancel the temporary linode.
22:19<HoopyCat>i usually go the temporary-linode route, since it doesn't involve any interruption to the "permanent" linode
22:21<user1690>what u mean by temporary u mean build rebuild another one right?
22:22<HoopyCat>user1690: click "add a linode", choose "Linode 512", month-to-month, continue, pick the same datacenter as your current one, then skip the "deploy a linux distribution" step and go back to the backup screen on the other linode
22:22<@pparadis>user1690: what do you see here?
22:23<HoopyCat>user1690: you'll then have a linode with ~16 GB of unallocated/free space and ought to be able to restore at that
22:23<@pparadis>wait, it can be bigger -->
22:23-!-atourino [~oftc@] has joined #linode
22:24<DrJ>2 questions about linode backups ... do they slow down the server while running and can we download them?
22:24<JshWright>no to both
22:25<JshWright>well... a qualified no to the second one... you could restore it to another node, and download it from there, but there is no way to download it directly
22:27<HoopyCat>pparadis: ???
22:27<DrJ>that's alright ... I would just kind of like to have a local copy from time to time
22:27<DrJ>I guess I can rsync or something
22:28<HoopyCat>DrJ: never hurts to have two different mechanisms to back stuff up to two different locales
22:28<JshWright>DrJ: yeah, maintaining offsite backups is _always_ a good idea
22:28<@pparadis>HoopyCat: brb my head asploded gotta clean it up
22:28<@pparadis>you can _never_ have too many backups.
22:29-!-moe_joe [] has joined #linode
22:30*Captain_Intern later
22:31-!-JSharp [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:32*Captain_Intern looks at mallet
22:32<Captain_Intern>I might as well as take it with me
22:32<user1690>so i see a recovery Finix (iso) option for my current Configuration Profile's Block Device Assignment
22:32<user1690>is that my supposed backup??
22:32-!-Captain_Intern [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:33<JshWright>no, that's a bootable LiveCD type environment
22:33<HoopyCat>user1690: did you restore the backup onto a new linode?
22:33<JshWright>handy for doing stuff to your partitions that you can't do when they're mounted
22:34<user1690>not yet that is what i was figuring out as rebuild doesn't show my backedup disk
22:34<user1690>i can't restore as it says
22:34<user1690>not enough disk space
22:35<HoopyCat>user1690: the backup won't appear until it is restored somewhere, and you cannot restore it anywhere until you create unallocated space for it.
22:35<@pparadis>user1690: you have been presented with the two paths to restoring a backup.
22:35<@pparadis>user1690: please choose one.
22:36<@pparadis>technically, three paths, but you indicated you didn't find one acceptable (you didn't want to delete your existing disk image)
22:36<HoopyCat>user1690: the backups are physically separate from your linode, so a specific process is required to restore them; they aren't mountable
22:36<HoopyCat>(and yeah, deleting your existing disk image is a Bad Idea)
22:38<@pparadis>if it were me, i would restore to a new linode and take the $0.67 hit. but maybe that's just me.
22:38-!-Knight [] has joined #linode
22:39*encode backups the backups which are backing up the backups
22:39-!-advion [] has joined #linode
22:39<kronos003>has there ever been any instances of one of those desktop sata harddrive docks not working with SystemRescueCD
22:39<HoopyCat>kronos003: is it not working for you?
22:40<JshWright>kronos003: wrong window?
22:41<HoopyCat>images who are backups who like backups to be images who do backups like they're images who do images like they're backups always should be someone you really love
22:41<@pparadis>Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
22:42<atourino>tres tristes tigres comen trigo en un trigal
22:42<jamiedol>I have linode backups enabled. But wanted a second backup. I've tried amazon with a FUSE setup. It doesn't work well. It doesn't handle small files well, and is really slow.
22:42*atourino handles urmom
22:42<jamiedol>I am going to go ahead and try Jungle Disk server for $5 a month plus storage. transfer is free if you use Rackspace for storage.
22:42<@pparadis>jamiedol: have you tried rdiff-backup to a local machine?
22:43<@pparadis>it works great.
22:43<HoopyCat>jamiedol: i like duplicity with S3
22:43<jamiedol>20 + gb on my 32 gb linode.
22:43<@pparadis> <-- what i've used most often
22:44-!-Mp5shooter [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:44*atourino favors tarsnap
22:44<jamiedol>Maybe I just did it a really inefficent way. I mounted S3 with FUSE using the S3FS app, then I turned on Cpanel backups and let them run. They are not tared / compressed. They don't support incrimential if you are tared or compressed.
22:45<HoopyCat>jamiedol: yeah, that's just about the least efficient way to interface with S3
22:46<@pparadis>oh man.
22:46<jamiedol>The Jungle disk client says they have a good way to handle a lot of small files. And with transfer being free; and no get / put costs, I think it will be cheaper than using amazon.
22:47<@pparadis>why even involve another VPS or provider-based system for this?
22:47<jamiedol>Instead of storing it locally you mean?
22:48<@pparadis>my offsite backups go straight to my house. if my remote servers are down _and_ my house is "down", i've got bigger problems than that data.
22:48<jamiedol>My uplink is only about 768, so to restore 20gb somewhere is days....
22:48<atourino>ie zombie apocalyps
22:48<@pparadis>but you have linode backups enabled, right?
22:49<HoopyCat>ideally, i'd like to be able to turn everything off here. in fact, i was able to do so once; then, i found a sad-looking dell sitting on the curb during a rainstorm
22:49<@pparadis>so it would take something catastrophic in the first place for you to even need your offsite backups.
22:49<jamiedol>I was just trying to get some backup coverage outside of the Datacenter. I'd be really happy if linode could backup to another DC.
22:49-!-troy [] has joined #linode
22:49<HoopyCat>also, i gotta have a solution for off-site backups from home to elsewhere, and duplicity+S3 does the job in both places :-)
22:50<@pparadis>something catastrophic happening like that with zero advance warning would likely mean we missed an inbound meteor or something.
22:50<@pparadis>HoopyCat seems to be on to something.
22:51<@pparadis>tornados won't actually destory most DCs i've ever seen, or even seriously damage them.
22:51<HoopyCat>jamiedol: surprisingly easy to thwart
22:51<@pparadis>destroy, even.
22:51<JshWright>I live close enough to the Newark DC that it's _conceivable_ that a single incident could cause data loss in both locations (granted, that would certainly fall under the "I've got bigger worries, and am gonna be far too busy for the next couple weeks to worry about my data" type of event)
22:52<atourino>man... f#ck data. It complicates things... let's go shopping
22:52<HoopyCat>if a single incident causes data loss in newark and JshWright's locale, i'd really like to say that i'd be far too busy for the next couple of weeks...
22:53<jamiedol>Well that is reassuring that you guys are so confident in the security / storm proofing of your DC. Are you able to say if you own the facilities your in or if you are renting building space in a datacenter?
22:53<@pparadis>there's a list of the DCs we colo in somewhere.
22:53<JshWright>or just look at a traceroute for a linode IP
22:54<@pparadis>here we go, it's on the old-n-busted wiki -->
22:54<JshWright>Newark is NAC's DC in Cedar Knolls
22:54<HoopyCat>but in reality, i'd probably be quite preoccupied with vomiting and diarrhea for some time
22:54<jamiedol>That would make sense, you have to be google these days to build your own DC.
22:54<user1690>guys so if i ended up getting up new linode to restore just in case do-- does it stll have the same IP
22:55<HoopyCat>user1690: no, just the same location. (it would be impossible for it to have the same IP address(*))
22:55<@pparadis>you restore to the new linode so you can get whatever data you want.
22:55<@pparadis>and transfer it to the old linode.
22:55<JshWright>well, my theory for data loss in Newark and here would be a major hurricane that phyiscally damaged the DC, and was still powerful enough by the time it got here to cause an untimely power outage
22:55<HoopyCat>(*) (yes, i am simplifying it)
22:56<@pparadis>there is no getting around how this has been explained. in other words, there's no getting around the disk space limitation without the methods described, and no magical way to just attach the storage to your existing linode given the acceptable methods outlined.
22:56<foreverwondering>Hurricanes in NJ?
22:56<HoopyCat>JshWright: eh, nuclear strike on NYC is usually the one i worry about. so, i back up everything to northern virginia.
22:57<jamiedol>Seriously, you worry about a nuke strike?
22:57<@pparadis>HoopyCat: o_O :)
22:57<foreverwondering>because they'll hit NYC and not DC
22:57<JshWright>I try not to think about how many warheads are aimed at Syracuse...
22:58<HoopyCat>jamiedol: far more likely is a typo, human error, or software/filesystem problem, but it's fun to think about!
22:58<Ovron>largest targets first; not looking good for urmom
22:58<@pparadis>Ovron: she can absorb anything, as evidenced by her track record.
22:58<@pparadis>so it's looking just fine.
22:59<JshWright>I'm sure there are several warheads that are still targetted at this building: (just in case...)
22:59<jamiedol>You guys should buy one of those old bunkers. Underground, where they used to store the missles. They are selling them to the public now.
23:00<@pparadis>"Hancock AFB was officially closed in 1981." <-- but we know the truth
23:00<GLaDOSDan>Does anyone have any experience with munin? I have the master running on node #1, and it's returning data correctly. But when I look at the html for node #2, there are no plugins. if I check the logs on node #2, munin master is connecting and stuff, #2 is just not reporting any plugins/data to #1
23:01<JshWright>there was actually an ISP looking at buying the aformentioned building to use as a hardened DC
23:01<HoopyCat>GLaDOSDan: from the master, try "nc 4949", then when it connects, "list"
23:01<GLaDOSDan>I did that
23:01<GLaDOSDan>it's showing plugins
23:01<JshWright>most of the walls are 8 _feet_ thick
23:01<GLaDOSDan>and I can use fetch too
23:01<HoopyCat>GLaDOSDan: does "config one_of_those_plugins" return properly?
23:01<jamiedol>It actually sounds like a pretty reasonable use for one of those old facilties. From what I understand there are a lot of them.
23:01-!-kraz [] has joined #linode
23:02<HoopyCat>jamiedol: problem is that they're kinda out in the middle of nowhere
23:02<GLaDOSDan>HoopyCat: working
23:02<JshWright>HoopyCat: I can see the one we're talking about from my office
23:02<HoopyCat>GLaDOSDan: hmm. well, it oughta be working, then.
23:02<jamiedol>Yea; but as long as you can get fiber there; which these days, you have to be able to buy dark fiber in so many places.
23:02<HoopyCat>JshWright: underground bunkers, not above-ground bunkers :-)
23:03<GLaDOSDan>I uh
23:03<GLaDOSDan>found the problem
23:03<Peng>HoopyCat: Maybe he can see the guard shack.
23:04<JshWright>HoopyCat: this building might as well be underground
23:04<jamiedol>Hoppycat: Maybe there is a access problem... That site took like 30 seconds to load.
23:04<@pparadis>man, i really want this one -->
23:05<jamiedol>That one is pretty sweet. Be a really cool office.
23:05<HoopyCat>jamiedol: hmm, works from here. (the site is not hosted in the bunker field, either)
23:06<stefanie>pparadis: no
23:06<jamiedol>HappyCat: Maybe it is Firefox Beta being a spaz. Loaded much faster in Chrome.
23:07<@pparadis>stefanie: yes
23:07<stefanie>then you're going by yourself
23:07<HoopyCat>one of the nice things about leasing racks in someone else's datacenter is that you don't have to operate your own datacenter. plus, you can use their cage monkeys to do your dirty work.
23:08<jamiedol>Googles "server boxes" are pretty cool, have you seen the videos of those?
23:11<HoopyCat>i've seen so many of those i've got scars from cardboard cuts
23:11<pharaun>best way to identify the device for a given mount-point? parse /etc/fstab? or is there a better way
23:12<HoopyCat>pharaun: i kinda like 'df /path/to/interrogate' as it will work for subdirectories. there's likely a more general way
23:12<@pparadis>pharaun: /etc/mtab ?
23:12<HoopyCat>pharaun: officially, i think you're supposed to use /proc/mounts if you're going to do it yourself, tho
23:12<pharaun>pparadis: would that not be the current mounted devices, i want to do it so that if i'm given "/blah/foo" as a mount point, i want to know the device
23:13<@pparadis>oh right then
23:13<pharaun>ie the device that is supposed to be mounted there, i was thinking fstab but that wouldn't do with all of the udev magic going on on newer distro
23:13<@pparadis>/proc/mounts is just gonna give you what's currently mounted, too.
23:14<pharaun>main reason is i'm monitoring /proc/mounts to see if a specific mountpoint is mounted or not before taking action
23:14<pharaun>and i just want to be able to find the device that is "supposed" to be mounted there so it does not go off if i mount say a cdrom there
23:14<pharaun>as a precaution mainly
23:14<jamiedol>Isn't that a sweet setup google has going...
23:14<@pparadis>can you just check to see if anything exist in the mount point before mounting to it?
23:14<pharaun>pparadis: i'm not mounting, i'm just monitoring to see if its mounted or not
23:15<@pparadis>well then, /proc/mounts will tell you that. maybe i still don't understand :/
23:16<pharaun>pparadis: yeah it will, i guess i'm asking a strange question, basically i want to avoid having to tell the tool --dev /dev/foo --mp /home/foo i would like to be able to just go --mp /home/foo and the tool figure out what the /dev/foo is assigned to /home/foo
23:16<pharaun>made me think fstab because it holds that info but my problem is what about all of the udev fuckery going on these days
23:17<@pparadis>i don't do the udev fuckery thing myself.
23:17<pharaun>its just mainly to make sure the trigger does not go off if something else is mounted there
23:17<pharaun>yeah i don't either
23:17<pharaun>so i was wondering if there was a better way of finding the /dev/* other than parsing /etc/fstab
23:17<@pparadis>the best i can say is to check the contents of the directory first.
23:17<pharaun>hm k
23:17<pharaun>that might work as an additional sanity check
23:18<@pparadis>plus, check return codes from attempting to mount.
23:18<HoopyCat>oops sorry thought someone was doing a sanity check
23:18<pharaun>HoopyCat: ha
23:18-!-fmw [] has joined #linode
23:18<pharaun>pparadis: thanks :) didn't think of like putting a little ".foo" marker in that fs and checking if its there or not as additional sanity check
23:19-!-Guest1039 is now known as jotamjr
23:19<@pparadis>pharaun: <3
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23:20<kronos003>HoopyCat: JshWright : i have what i suspect is a defective drive that im trying to recover. was wondering if there were any known issues on the desktop docks or if they should Just-Work(tm). im gonna see if i can find a known working drive to try on it - (it being in another stae and run by a remote user presently)
23:21-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:23<HoopyCat>dunno, not much of a hardware guy
23:23-!-mathew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:24<HoopyCat>(well, THAT kind of hardware)
23:26-!-Knight [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:34<jamiedol>Have any of your run LightSpeed?
23:39-!-bayashi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:40<GLaDOSDan>okay HoopyCat I was wrong o_O
23:41<GLaDOSDan>the two servers _were_ running different versions, but now they're the same version, and I'm still not seeing any data
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 18 00:00:36 2011