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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-06-13

---Logopened Mon Jun 13 00:00:01 2011
---Daychanged Mon Jun 13 2011
00:00<@Praefectus>HoopyCat: thats ok, you havent noticed the extra linode that you cant see yet, so it all works out in the end!
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00:00<HoopyCat>afk, sleeping with the fishes
00:02<+linbot>New news from forums: Linode rocks in Customer Testimonials <>
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00:12*Obsidian|server drags HoopyCat off to a watery grave
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00:26<mdcollins>Anyone know of a simple bandwidth usage monitor that tracks what ports are used?
00:26<amitz>in real time?
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00:27<mdcollins>nah, more for long term monitoring, daily, monthly, ect
00:28<Defenestrator>It produces quite a bit of data, but it's good if you want a lot of traffic analysis
00:29<mdcollins>I've used ntop and it was okay for about ~15 mins then stopped responding to web requests..
00:30<Kyhwana_>and then crashes
00:30<Kyhwana_>yeah, ntop does that
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00:46<vraa_>i guess i must be really stupid: to have a nodebalancer you need more than 1 linode?
00:46<@Praefectus>nodebalancer == loadbalancer
00:47<vraa_>oh okay, so you do need more than 1 linode... that leads me to my 2nd question - how do i make sure the mysql databases are in sync? i guess after i setup nodebalacner between X number of linodes i need to setup replication?
00:49<Defenestrator>There are various ways to do it, but MySQL replication is the most common
00:49<Defenestrator>Usually master/slave and the promote the slave if the master dies
00:50<vraa_>and then once the master is up i have to have a plan to promote the (previous) master and demote the (previous) slave
00:50<vraa_>so just to be clear: linode nodebalancer is like the keepalive heartbeat thing and HA for the webserver
00:50<Defenestrator>Yeah. There's multi-master replication, but that's tricky
00:51<vraa_>the mysql db and the html/php files themselves need to have rsync or replicatoin
00:51<ajmitch>multi-master replication requires using mysql cluster, iirc
00:51<vraa_>i thought with master master you just had to be careful with your set increment thing
00:51<ajmitch>there are articles about HA setups on
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00:52<ajmitch> will cover some of what you need
00:52<Defenestrator>vraa_: eh.. mostly. I think there are other potential pitfalls as well
00:52<vraa_>oh i dont need it yet, i have to get my 2nd linode request approved tomorrow
00:53<vraa_>then i'll have 2 linodes to try to setup HA
00:53<vraa_>i have heard so many horror stories of replication messing up
00:56<tozz>a benefit of using one the gazillion other solutions, driver support for failover on the database level
00:56<tozz>saves a lot of hair if you need it ;)
00:58<vraa_>sorry tozz i dont understand?
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01:01<tozz>vraa_: it was just an observation, I never hear anyone ever having a easy time with replication and failover when it comes to mysql, we have the same issues at work, but there's db-solutions that actually handle this kind of thing quite smoothly
01:02<tozz>about work.. time to go
01:02<vraa_>thanks! i will google for db solutions
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03:18<gpd>anybody know anything about 'umbra loader' - somebody seems ot have hacked into a crusty drupal install on my linode. :(
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03:20<foreverwondering>gpd hope you have backups
03:21<gpd>foreverwondering: yes - but all my data seems to be in place - if not entirely trusted at this point. :(
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03:29<foreverwondering>not trusted is a problem, isn't it
03:29<foreverwondering>wipe and restore from backups
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03:35<gpd>I would advise
03:35<gpd>is blocked by all...
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03:35<gpd>foreverwondering: yes - in progress.
03:35<foreverwondering>good luck
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04:02<gpd>my hosts.deny doesn't seem to be helping - what else to block an IP address?
04:02<Peng>gpd: iptables. Not all software follows hosts.deny.
04:03<gpd> sudo iptables -I INPUT -s -j DROP
04:03<gpd>like that?
04:03*Peng shrugs. I'm iptables-ignorant.
04:04<gpd>thanks Praefectus
04:04-!-synesthete|away is now known as synesthete
04:04<Peng>Ha, of course. The library.
04:04<Peng>Hmmmm, "Sam Kleinman" wrote that?
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04:06<gpd>ok - that's a bit quieter! :)
04:06<gpd>I would also advise all to block:
04:09<dcraig>sounds like I need a script that parses the #linode logs and adds iptables rules to block IPs mentioned by gpd
04:09<dcraig>otherwise this is going to get tedious pretty quick!
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04:26<gpd>ouch - I won't bother then.
04:27<dcraig>denyhosts has a thing where it'll allow you to block IPs that other people report as malicious
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04:27<dcraig>and it can block them from everything, not just SSH
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04:28<dcraig>so you might give that a go if you're into such things
04:28<chesty>last i heard, denyhosts uses tcpwrappers
04:28<dcraig>is that bad? good?
04:28<chesty>it only blocks things that use tcpwrappers
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04:29<dcraig>it adds rules to /etc/hosts.deny
04:29<chesty>so how do you block http access?
04:29<czr>tcpwrappers is the lib that parses /etc/hosts.deny|allow
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04:29<czr>checkers, run xinetc and apache behind that in stdin-mode?
04:30*czr hides & runs
04:30<czr>oops, sorry, chesty I meant
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04:32<dcraig>I see
04:32<dcraig>now I know what a tcpwrappers are
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04:44<Tiven>if u didnt in time
04:45<dcraig>tiven's in the cloud!
04:46*praetorian trips over the cloud powercable
04:46<synapt>Which node's have IPv6 at the moment? Is it just the east coast US ones?
04:46<praetorian>newark, dallas and fremont
04:46-!-Guest4332 is now known as mcinerney
04:48<synapt>Peng: Just found that :P
04:48<Peng>!alias add ipv6 echo
04:48<+linbot>Peng: The operation succeeded.
04:49<Peng>praetorian: ?
04:49<praetorian>i was adding one in /msg :P
04:49<praetorian>i didnt realise you added one in channel
04:49<Peng>It doesn't work, though. :-\
04:50<praetorian>i forgot echo
04:50<+linbot>IPv6 is currently available in Fremont, Dallas and Newark. London Q4 2011. No ETA on Atlanta. More info
04:50<Peng>Oh, there we go.
04:50<Peng>Yours is better. :)
04:50<+linbot>THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!
04:52<dcraig>atlanta must be lonely
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04:53<synapt>what about rDNS for IPv6?
04:53<Peng>synapt: Scroll down.
04:53<Peng>synapt: It's managed just like for IPv4.
04:54<synapt>Peng: Main reason I asked is because I'm not seeing a button/area for changing the IPv6 it just gave me
04:54<synapt>when I enabled it on my fremont
04:54<Peng>synapt: Remote Access -> Reverse DNS -> enter a hostname with the proper AAAA record
04:54<Peng>Just like for IPv4
04:55<synapt>Ah, confused me, as the 'ReverseDNS' area above the input field only showed the IPv4 address
04:55*synapt is easily confused at 4:30 MA
04:55<synapt>... AM
04:57<dcraig>the reverse DNS page could use a sentence explaning how to work it
04:57<dcraig>it's not immediately obvious that the way to set your reverse DNS entries is to perform a forward lookup
04:58<dcraig>maybe y'all need to add a link to the library from the reverse DNS page then :p
04:58<@Praefectus>maybe you need to RTFM
04:58<dcraig>most other things in the manager are relatively intuitive
04:59<@Praefectus>where manual == library
04:59<dcraig>I actually figured it out just fine on my own
04:59<dcraig>but it seems to be a common question in here
04:59<spkitty>okay, who knows regex? i need to grab everything between "@" and " " or ":" in a string for each occurrence. and my regex is goddamn terrible
05:00*Praefectus knows reggie
05:00<praetorian>from the diner?
05:00<@Praefectus>you know it
05:00<praetorian>she keeps beckers smokes in the cash draw
05:00*Praefectus steals beckers smokes all the time
05:01*Praefectus also hands the blind dude salt instead of sugar sometimes
05:01<dcraig>poor keith
05:01<spkitty>wait turns out somebody has already written this for me in my language of choice, thank you google!
05:02<spkitty>well not so much language of choice as language of necessity :/
05:03<spkitty>hahaha, right in one
05:07<Peng>praetorian: That library bit should mention AAAA records too.
05:07<Peng>Err, Praefectus. Not praetorian. Blah.
05:08<Peng>Your nicks start with the same prefix! :(
05:08-!-synesthete is now known as synesthete|away
05:08*Peng usually doesn't bother to type more than the first 3 letters.
05:08<@Praefectus>its to confuse everyone
05:08<synapt>Peng: Should, but oddly it's not working anyways, I'll give it a bit longer though, guess it could just be DNS being stale
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05:09<hawk>synapt: You could check that, instead of just waiting and hoping that's it
05:09<Peng>Shrug, WFM. Well, as of a few days ago.
05:10<synapt>hawk: Check what?
05:10<praetorian>i was here first!
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05:13<Peng>synapt: Check that your forward DNS is really correct.
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05:14<synapt>Well obviously I made sure of that, not like it's the first time I've created DNS records either :P
05:15<synapt>but the same thing happened on my first linode, took like 6 hours for it to actually see the DNS for some reason
05:15<synapt>(though that was an IPv4)
05:15<Peng>synapt: In what way didn't it work, BTW? Did the manager reject it?
05:17<synapt>Peng: Yeah, just said no match was found, then gave the whole "must have a forward matching entry" etc etc
05:17<Peng>synapt: What's the hostname?
05:18<synapt>yeah like I said, it happened with my first one too, I think the issue is I might have tried too quickly after pushing it on my nameservers
05:18<synapt>might not have propagated quickly enough
05:20<Peng>synapt: You're missing 16 bits off the end of the IP address.
05:20<Peng>(Since it uses :: it's still a valid IP, just wrong.)
05:21*synapt doublechecks the dashboard o.O
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05:23<Peng>synapt: Looks like a bad copy-paste to me.
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05:24<Peng>Hmph, name.'s nameservers are IPv4-only.
05:24<Peng>Lazy butts.
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05:25<Peng>SpaceHobo: ??
05:25<synapt>Peng: Considering one of them is in the london DC, I can't really do much about that
05:26<Peng>synapt: I meant the TLD, not you. It's a year or two before I'll start calling individual domain owners lazy. :P
05:27<Peng>SpaceHobo: Perhaps. More importantly, I think it's fun!
05:28<dcraig>I like the colons and letters
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05:33<kenyon>SpaceHobo must be lucky enough to have a plethora of public IPv4 addresses
05:34<+linbot>Teressa_berg: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
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05:35<amitz>teressa teng
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05:35<amitz>i feel so old...
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05:38<kenyon>none of the places I use IPv6 use NAT
05:39<kenyon>unnecessary, since they are dual stack
05:40<brods>oh good
05:40<brods>kid next to me is pissing himself
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06:04<Peng>10:03:12 CTCP PING reply from praetorian: -2005772.-51 seconds
06:04<Peng>I know what updike is.
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06:05<praetorian>2003:12 [oftc] -ChaosKiller( Your ping reply was 2162wks 4days 10hrs 3mins 10secs
06:05<praetorian>or i get noticed the funny
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06:18<bob2>more annoyingly, everyone's gonna have stateful firewalls with no safe way for clients to poke holes in them
06:19<Peng>bob2: What, on IPv6?
06:20<Peng>OK what exactly did I just mangle?
06:20<bob2>I do not know
06:20<Peng>Oh, right. Ctrl+A+'+dn
06:21<Peng>I've been hitting Ctrl softly of late. Anyway!
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06:25<praetorian>you are losing control? tsk tsk
06:26<smftre>Hello, I am a potential new customer with some questions, anyone around to answer things for me?
06:26<Peng>smftre: Probably. Ask away.
06:27<bob2>'ask your questions'
06:27<smftre>Hello, I am a potential new customer with some questions, anyone around to answer some questions I have?
06:28<bob2>smftre: yes, ask
06:28<smftre>How much are additional IP addresses as I see you only get 1 ip per account on signup?
06:28<+linbot>Available extras: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP addresses: $ 1 per address/month. To add extras, visit the Extras tab on a Linode.
06:28<bob2>note: each extra IPv5 address requires an ARIN-acceptable justification
06:28<smftre>(sorry, serious lag here in IRC, seem to be taking ages for my text to show up.... weird)
06:28<bob2>er IPv4
06:29<Peng>smftre: You could switch to a real IRC client if the web one isn't working well. #linode
06:29<smftre>Are you charged if you go over monthly quotas? If so are there set amounts etc?
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06:29<Peng>smftre: Transfer overages are $0.15/GB, though they won't hit you if you're only over a little bit.
06:30<smftre>was about to ask about the IPv5, lol
06:30<Peng>smftre: You can always buy extra transfer at $10/100 GB, prorated to the month.
06:31<smftre>weird q: what is the default location for each domain added under the account? /var/www/ or what?
06:31<Peng>smftre: It's distro-specific, nothing to do with Linode.
06:32<bob2>smftre: linode procides an unmanaged vps
06:32<bob2>smftre: that is between you and whatever web server you install
06:34<smftre>are there any "you cant do any of this on your account" in the TOS?
06:34<Peng>smftre: Read it. :D
06:34<Peng>smftre: It largely boils down to: 1.) You cannot break US law, 2.) You cannot break the servers
06:38<smftre>How long does setup take from when I signup and when i get to start "tinkering"?
06:39<bob2>usually < 5 minutes
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06:44<czr>it's very fast unless your credit processing requires human intervention
06:44<spkitty>5 minutes unless you put the wrong address in for your credit card >.>
06:44<czr>well, even if you put the right one, it might require hand-holding. happened to me
06:44<czr>but must've been my EXOTIC credit card (non-US).
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06:52<amitz>exotic individual too.
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06:59<+linbot>New news from forums: Ability to make read-only disk images in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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07:26<mathew>Is there an RSS feed for new kernel releases on Linode?
07:27<Peng>mathew: Yes.
07:27<Peng> has <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="RSS 2.0" href="/kernels/rss.xml" />
07:28<mathew>Thanks Peng
07:29<brenton>hallo does anyone know if greylistd works with courier-mta?
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07:36*MilkyJoe is still trying to work out what the hell a RSS Feed is :P
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07:42<dxrt>Just wondering, is the ability to get a /64 implemented yet?
07:42<dxrt>of ipv6.
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07:43<MilkyJoe>brenton, i have not used courier-mta - but stuffs suggest it will work (altho things seemed to break back in 2006) - other sites suggest that the greylist technique can delay email for as long as 4 hours?!? (not sure how correct this is - but perhaps you should research on other techniques also?)
07:43<Peng>dxrt: Not AFAIK
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07:44<brenton>MilkyJoe: ive been using exim4 for a while with greylistd and can configure it to 5 mins delay and it stops alot of viagra emails lol
07:45<brenton>MilkyJoe: i was going to switch to courier because i was looking for something to support calendars e.g. groupware
07:45<BarkerJr>dxrt: you can get a /116
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07:46<dxrt>BarkerJr: The more, the better I say.
07:46<BarkerJr>yeah :)
07:47*MilkyJoe is using postfix n dovecot ... started by following the linode guides... and... I have never wanted to run mail servers... (hate)... but I do employ a lot of techniques to avoid spam... (i would think possibly too many) I recommend you look into all possibilities... then let me know :P
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07:49<brenton>MilkyJoe: yea i use exim4 + spamassassin + clamav + greylistd + courier-imap. just wanted to ad another feature for calendars
07:50<BarkerJr>I use gmail :)
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07:50<BarkerJr>spamassasin is very good, though
07:50<brenton>dun wanna rely on places like google too much they're nearly as scary as M$
07:51<BarkerJr>I used to use spam assassin before I switched to gmail
07:51<MilkyJoe>I had never wanted to do email services... but customers requested it... damn those ppl!! ... so yeah... i use rbl's n blacklists as well as strict checking n allsorts... we hardly get spam now... but usually get several emails per second to check
07:52<brenton>when i turn greylistd off tho spamassassin still lets a few viagra ads get through and fake DHL emails with .zip files
07:52<bob2>don't forget postfwd
07:52<BarkerJr>so my suggestion is to put the RBL check in the mta before SA gets called... that way you aren't loading up the SA engine just for an easy failure
07:53<BarkerJr>also, make sure you run the spamd/spamc combination so you aren't loading the entire engine/db for every email
07:53<brenton>BarkerJr: cool ill have to look into rbl's
07:53<MilkyJoe>yeps... as BarkerJr said... do yer checks at the start b4 spamassasin n other services
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07:55<MilkyJoe>the stuffs ya mta should do are things like valid host name, yer hello and then ya rbl... then pass to secondary services like spf, spamassassin, virus checking.... it all gives me a headache tho :P
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07:57<GReaper>the neverending hassle of mail administration
07:57<brenton1>ahh internet
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08:00<MilkyJoe>i want a nice big banner on my website... go get yerself gmail (or summat) ... yeps my spam is fixed, I have DKIM, Domain Keys, Sender ID, SPF ...and yet still jumping thru hoops for sending mail to yahoo and msn/live/hotmail
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08:01<MilkyJoe>I have my IP checked against mailing blacklists every 2 days... all clean... bloomin mail is a pain in the arse to run!
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08:10<navi>MilkyJoe: That's probably why most people seem to delegate it to some other service
08:10*MilkyJoe cries
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08:12<MilkyJoe>i have kinda noticed that if you have customers using hotmail/live/msn, the best suggestion from microsoft is to switch to one of their partner companies... heh ;)
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08:16*navi wishes it was busier
08:16*navi clicks his heels three times
08:16*MilkyJoe runs around
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08:17<Peng>navi: Drive down to Fremont and throw something at the data center. I'm sure it'll knock out the power and cause fun for everyone.
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08:17<Peng>If you don't have anything throwable, give it a dirty look. That'll probably do it.
08:19<MilkyJoe>...well... subject change... i got my pool of 4096 IPv6 addies at my linode in Newark today.... what the hell am i gunna do with them tho... I could dual stack for the masses if I had 4096 IPv4 addies too :P
08:19<phyber>use a different IP address each day for the next 10 years or so.
08:19<navi>MilkyJoe: Sort through them and use all the cool ones
08:20<MilkyJoe>yeah... I noticed fedora project have a kewl one
08:20<navi>what is it?
08:20<navi>facebook's contains face:b00c
08:21<MilkyJoe>heh... i didn't spot that one
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08:21<navi>sucks to be fedora
08:21<navi>I mean, if they were fedoa, they could be fed0a
08:21<navi>but there's no r equivalen
08:22<Peng>Googlebot and Cisco have nice IPs.
08:22<MilkyJoe>my online domain name... same... i doubt ima get a nice IPv6 to represent it (altho I am still toying with it)
08:23<Peng>!dns6 aaaa
08:23<+linbot>Peng: 2600::
08:23<Peng>On the flipside. :P
08:23<navi>I wonder if BBC will use bbcb:bcbb:cbbc: ->
08:23<MilkyJoe>the bbc trial had bbc in it
08:23<navi>no more.
08:24<navi>!dns6 aaaa
08:24<+linbot>navi: The response did not contain an answer to the question.
08:24<AviMarcus>wow, vanity IPv6 IPs. that's just funny.
08:24<MilkyJoe> 2001:4b10:bbc::2 (it was... dunno if it still is)
08:24<navi>I just thought
08:24<navi>Instead of URL shortening services
08:24<navi>we can just assign them each an IP
08:25<MilkyJoe>superb: ... 2001:67c:2a0:5:0:b00b:babe:cafe
08:26*MilkyJoe is using: as a reference
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08:28<Peng>1711 .coms with AAAA glue!?
08:28<Peng>2112 .nets, though.
08:29<navi>Linodes come with AAAA sticky tape
08:29<navi>We've run out of anything stronger
08:30<Peng>Googlebot uses IPs like 2001:4860:4801:1302:0:6006:1300:b075
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08:30<Peng>Cisco had, uh, someone could dig it up from nanog. :P
08:30<Nivex>it was something on the order of c1:5c0:d06:f00d
08:31<navi>Nice to see them eating their own.
08:34*navi would like permission to dance
08:35<navi>How I love the string "Accepted mysql-5.1 5.1.57-1.1 (source all i386)"
08:35<navi>Finally, mysql and php development is up and running again for debian and ubuntu
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08:37<Peng>Nivex: Ah, right.
08:37<AviMarcus>what AAAA vs AAA glue?
08:37<AviMarcus>erm AAAA glue
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08:38<@Praefectus>AviMarcus: AAAA = ipv6, AAA = autoclub in the usa
08:38-!-troy [~troy@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:cf4e] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
08:38<AviMarcus>I meant what's AAAA vs AAAA glue?
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08:39<Neok>Hi All. Looking for a little help installing Zend via Atomic repo.. here's what I've tried so far -
08:41<+linbot>Peng: 2001:48c8:1:d::23:5482:d026,
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08:46<AviMarcus>so irgeek is the AAAA glue count important, vs the AAAA count?
08:46<AviMarcus>seems to not be
08:46<AviMarcus>unless I'm reading that wrong
08:46<AviMarcus>[15:28:45] <Peng>: 1711 .coms with AAAA glue!? on
08:47<AviMarcus>the AAAA number of 1.5million is the relevant one, right?
08:47<Peng>Well, it tells you the number of AAAA nameservers.
08:47<Peng>Since that's what people use glue for.
08:48*MilkyJoe has no clue... but it is interesting to see how many ppl are gunna be using :b00b: in their IPV6 :)
08:49<phyber>c0:ffee:c0ff:eec0:ffee, all the way.
08:50<navi>Neok: Yeah, zend stopped
08:50<Neok>@navi it stopped...itself? :)
08:51<navi>Neok: No, I think they discontinued it in 5.3
08:51<Neok>@navi - Ahhhh.
08:51<@Praefectus>ya, there is no zendopt for 5.3
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08:52<navi>naxxfish_: zend guard loader exists still
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08:52<Neok>@navi - cheers for the pointer - will go and read up on it.
08:52<navi>Neok: zend guard loader exists still
08:52<navi>naxxfish_: Sorry
08:52<praetorian>Nivex: more like face:00ff
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08:54<Peng>face:ff. RFC 5952!
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08:55<MilkyJoe>ooh... blog post from 2009... (not mine):
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09:02<navi>Current stats: 0.84% of NTP traffic is over IPv6. Most traffic over NTP: 1330 requests per second.
09:02<navi>IPv6 really isn't going anywhere fast
09:03<navi>Are we going to have more IPv6 days?
09:03<@Praefectus>navi: every other tuesday
09:03<navi>Praefectus: ~Yay~
09:03<MilkyJoe>i think we do need more IPv6 days... secret insider info from my ISP... they are in no rush to dual stach customers or support it yet
09:05<Nivex>every day is ipv6 day for me
09:07*navi has just found the JSON IPv4 exhaustion feed
09:07*navi wonders how easy it would be to munin this
09:08<MilkyJoe>I will be making my sites both over the next week... because I feel guilty that all I did was drink beer on IPv6 day... and... ima plop summat on the page to say 'urgh - IPv4' or 'Yey IPv6'
09:08<navi>MilkyJoe: Split the different
09:08<navi>"Meh. IPv5."
09:08<Nivex>my website displays a different banner graphic depending on which protocol you're on
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09:09<Nivex>it's not obvious to the visitor, but since it's a personal site, I'm waiting for my friends to say "Ooh, when did you change your banner?"
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09:10<MilkyJoe>We could simply start a new day... IPv16 ... just in case we have nanobots colonise the entire galaxy!
09:11<pronto>i wish my isp would provide ipv6 >.<, from what i hear they have ipv6 running on all their lines too
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09:14<MilkyJoe>i have been pestering my ISP a lil much... heh... the simple reason is... Linode gave me 4096 IPv6 for my nodes at newark... I have nodes in Fremont too... unless ISP's are kicked into line... there is not a hell of a lot ya can do with them unless ya dual stack
09:15<pronto>i've been using my linode to get ipv6 access, socks5 proxy to it
09:15*MilkyJoe needs 4096 IPv4's to match (yeah OK, I can use mah IPv6's internally... but... just in case)
09:15<avenj>I'm using HE proto 41 tunnel at home :\
09:16<MilkyJoe>me too avenj
09:16<avenj>I estimate my ISP will provide native v6 by approximately 2032 or so
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09:16<Peng>They'll tackle IPv6 and Y2k38 at the same time?
09:17<MilkyJoe>lol :)
09:17<avenj>I mean, my isp's home page has a 'Download IE8!' link right at the top
09:17<MilkyJoe>oops... i was avoiding the 'lol
09:17<avenj>so they're obviously on top of the latest technologies and I shouldn't doubt them
09:18<MilkyJoe>we all want :b00b: in our IPv6... so based on that... we need this technology now!
09:19<pronto>it's a legitmate reason
09:20<pronto>Swapna(09:19:53): So you would like to know when will Verizon provide the ipv6 support, am I correct ?
09:20-!-troy [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:20<pronto>"The ipv6"
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09:21<MilkyJoe>based on my personal usage of Linode, I am infact what I am gunna be able to do first... apache SSL vhosting using 'Server Name Indication' or being able to issue customers with an IPv6... hmm... seems either way... Microsoft could be a bottleneck
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09:25<swaj>my ISP looks to be rolling out IPv6 at the end of 2011/beginning of 2012
09:25<swaj>(AT&T U-Verse)
09:25<Peng>MilkyJoe: In both cases, Windows XP is a bottleneck. Although I think its IPv6 isn't bad, at least with patches.
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09:25<Peng>MilkyJoe: SNI is fairly useable now.
09:25<gpd>anyone know of a set of scripts to parse apache log files and block (via iptables) hosts trying to get to specific URLs?
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09:26<straterra>gpd: Sounds like a 5 line perl script
09:27<straterra>You can use File::Tail and regex
09:27<MilkyJoe>Peng, yeps agreed... altho... many ppl seem to either have an ability to switch off microsoft update or use an old version they borrowed off someone and have been told not to update... lol (don't they know a legit XP is only a registry hack away for genuine advantage) :P
09:28<gpd>straterra: agreed - just wondering if there was something like denyhosts for this purpose
09:28<swaj>is Linode manager capable of reverse DNS for ipv6 yet?
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09:29<MilkyJoe>you could get fail2ban to parse some custom log file (not tried tho)
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09:29<@irgeek>swaj: Yes.
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09:31<@irgeek>Since Tuesday last week! :p
09:31*gpd investigates OSSEC
09:31<swaj>nice to see it working. Got mine updated :)
09:32<swaj>now if they'd only move to IPv6 at work, I could get rid of the second IP :P
09:33<swaj>(second IPv4 that is)
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09:36<gpd>hmm. mod_security, snort, aide, etc - I should check the linode library!
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09:45<gpd>tail -f *.log |grep gate.php | awk '{print $1}' - now just need to add that IP address to iptables - if only i hadn't forgotten all my sysadmin stuff!
09:46<Peng>"gate.php" isn't super-specific.
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09:46<gpd>no - but it is the file that was uploaded by the hacker - and it was in various direcgtories
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09:46<@irgeek>iptables -A INPUT -s ${IP} -j DROP
09:47<gpd>irgeek: how do I set ${IP} from the awk statement?
09:48<@irgeek>tail -f *.log |grep gate.php | awk '{print $1}' | xargs -n1 -IIP iptables -A INPUT -s IP -j DROP
09:48<gpd>irgeek: oh - yes - xargs - many thanks :)
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09:52<AviMarcus>irgeek, are the linode manager added user emails not working?
09:52<@irgeek>E: NOPARSE
09:53<AviMarcus>Someone added me as a user in the linode manager to help admin his linodes. I've not gotten the email still. Is there another/a new issue with the emails, or did it just not work right?
09:54<@irgeek>I didn't think we even sent an email for that.
09:54*irgeek goes to look
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09:55<AviMarcus>to the person that gets added, irgeek ?
09:56<praetorian>i dont think there is one for that
09:57<@irgeek>Nope. I don't see it in the code.
09:58<AviMarcus>I thought I tested it.. so how do I login to manage those nodes?
09:58<AviMarcus>I had my main linode account email added, but I don't see anything different
09:58<@irgeek>Different username.
09:59<@irgeek>That will send you an email.
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10:03<AviMarcus>Thanks irgeek that worked
10:04<SNy>Uhm, a bit OT, but would anyone know how to change screens in a screen instance running inside another screen instance?
10:04<@irgeek>ctrl-a + a +
10:04<retro|blah>ctrl+a ctrl+a <stuff here>?
10:04<retro|blah>or that
10:05<SNy>Ah, thought it might be that, thanks guys.
10:05<@irgeek>ctrl-a + a send ctrl-a to the inner screen session.
10:05<praetorian>you need to go deeper
10:05<Ahmuck>any chance on getting a linode out of germany?
10:05<@irgeek>Ahmuck: How did your Linode get to Germany?
10:05*Ahmuck would like a linode hosted in Germany
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10:15<gpd>does anyone still use rkhunter - or chkrootkit - or are there newer things?
10:17<gpd>I'm also still running portsentry - which probably went out iwth the ark too...
10:18<jaskal>using the whitelist feature of the linode manager, is there a way to manage whitelisted IP's (add/remove)?
10:18<@irgeek>jaskal: The profile link in the top-right corner.
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10:19<jaskal>alright, i haven't activated it yet, wanted to make sure i could remove IP's first
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10:21<Peng>Well, if you sell some of the old hosts again, someone could transfer their node's disk image to it, then send the server to Germany... :D
10:21*retro|blah notes the lack of confirm or deny... there might be hope! D:
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11:13<Deafboy>hi there, have you experienced connectivity issues from some locations to linode virtual servers?
11:14<+linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
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11:16<retro|blah>Deafboy: That's for you by the way
11:17<Deafboy>yes, thanks
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11:33<Deafboy>thanks again, retro|blah . The problem seems to be on side of VPS owner, not VPS provider.
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11:40<JshWright>IPv6 is a fad
11:40<Nivex>JshWright: as is the Internet
11:40<JshWright>that's a given
11:41<Nivex>What's sad is that people fear the future rather than being excitied to discover it.
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11:44<Nivex>well why weren't you on the protocol design committee since you're so good?
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11:45<JshWright>SpaceHobo: but at least with IPv6, we can give a few million IP addresses to all the sensors on the biplane
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11:45<Nivex>"The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
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12:10<Boohemian>when i do aptitude install nginx from ubuntu, will it compile all the modules, or how do i add modules to nginx via aptitude?
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12:18<Boohemian>what does this mean in my linode manage host job queue? Lassie initiated boot
12:18<Boohemian>said failed, linode already running
12:18<Josh>It means Lassie thought your Linode should've been rebooted, but was wrong.
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12:22<Boohemian>oh, okay
12:22<Boohemian>what is the difference between the 'Paravirt' kernel and the 'Legacy' kernel?
12:24<Josh>Legacy is old.
12:24<Josh>Use the one labeled Paravirtualization... Or whatever.
12:25<Boohemian>256 swap is good enough?
12:26*MilkyJoe watches
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12:31<v0lksman>anyone know of a way to cheat and CNAME the root of a domain?
12:32<MilkyJoe>heh... nice ;)
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12:33<MilkyJoe>v0lksman, I can see why this is attractive... mydomain.tld CNAME someloadbalancer.tld
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12:33<v0lksman>my thoughts are the only way is to create a proxy and point the root to the proxy...the proxy then decides what IP or CNAME to redirect the traffic to. But it sorta defeats the purpose (IE if that proxy IP changes then I'm left updating)
12:34<MilkyJoe>use a sub domain
12:34<v0lksman>MilkyJoe, it's for a service that people will map their domains to. I provide a localized "friendly" domain for each client...
12:35<v0lksman>sub domain is easy...www CNAME
12:36<MilkyJoe>i am not sure on the RFC's for that... but like I said... it would be an attractive addition to ppls dns to be able to point the domain like that... I am unsure why... the reason I have looked into it is due to load balancing...
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12:37<MilkyJoe>but... nopes... seems like ya have to use an A for it
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12:38<MilkyJoe>maybe some DNS guru's can shed a lil RFC info on this reason?
12:38<v0lksman>MilkyJoe, RFC says no...that's why I was asking about a cheat... :)
12:39<sub>there really isn't one, but you could send rootdomain.tld to some external service that redirects to www.rootdomain.tld .... kind of ugly, though.
12:40<v0lksman>yeah so basically a proxy type long as I keep that proxy on the same IP my clients don't have to worry
12:40<MilkyJoe>I have wondered about the reasoning too... it seems that my websites are future proofed for expansion if I actually used a 'www.'
12:40<v0lksman>not great but might have to do
12:41<MilkyJoe>yeps... same with websites... I have a few clients... Ima stuffed if I change servers or wanna load balance them... they all 'A' to my IP
12:42<MilkyJoe>would be better if i said 'point yer domain to this domain name using yer CNAME in yer DNS'
12:42-!-rick_ [] has joined #linode
12:42<MilkyJoe>st00pid RFC :P
12:43<v0lksman>hehehe...yeah...stupid rules... :P
12:43<Boohemian>i'm so happy to be coding again!
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12:45<Khedgey>Anyone willing to help me get php mail working?
12:46<JshWright>Khedgey: post some errors, someone might be able to help
12:46<MilkyJoe>i suppose why I would love to do that... I can not only get web clients to point their domain using a CNAME to my services, I could then easily drop servers out of a round robin and have it work for all clients... would be luuurvly... so... if there is a cheating way... PLZ let me know m8 :)
12:47<v0lksman>MilkyJoe, proxy/redirect would be the only way I IP handed out to all your clients. That IP can never change. They map root and subs to that IP. An app on the IP then determines the actual location of the server in question....
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12:48<Boohemian>i haven't seen pparadis lately... where is he?
12:48<+linbot>New news from forums: Swap IPs in Current Betas <>
12:48<v0lksman>it kinda opens a new world of flexibility beyond that point but that one IP is...well...not very redundant and locks you into a service provider
12:48<MilkyJoe>For my websites I use HaProxy... tis awesome... I also have it balanced with failover on several servers... but itsa stuck at 1 datacenter
12:49<MilkyJoe>datacenter dies = no websites... which is why a CNAME that is not allowed in the RFC would be good :P
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12:51<v0lksman>I might just enforce a "you host with me, you host your DNS with me" policy...that way I can always change things on my own... ;)
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12:53<MilkyJoe>too late for me... heh... when Fremont goes down, I can switch myself to Newark on a 60 second TTL to tell ppl there are problems... but... mem... thatsa it
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12:55<MilkyJoe>Khedgey, have you got sendmail or ssmtp installed?
12:56<MilkyJoe>*and sp... mem = meh ...oop
12:57<MilkyJoe>for php to send mail, it will not do MTA work (well, it possibly can... but is easier to install something on your system)
12:57<hawk>MilkyJoe: Regarding your "CNAME at the zone apex" question, the reason why it's not supported is that a CNAME is an alias for all record types, which means that if there are other records beside the CNAME there is a conflict
12:58<hawk>MilkyJoe: And at the zone apex there has to be at least SOA+NS
12:58<MilkyJoe>yeah... so.... no cheatin :P
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13:00<MilkyJoe>I knew there was a particular reason... and I remember that at one point I wanted to do something similar... ...ty hawk ... there is the answer v0lksman m8!
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13:02<Boohemian>can i add any special characters to the mysql root password? or will some not work?
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13:02<MilkyJoe>but if ya at 1 datacenter n are doing failover... heartbeat n haproxy can do allsorts
13:03*MilkyJoe has clients pointing to an extra IP... it is using heartbeat (legacy mode for ease of use)... and HAProxy... as long as the datacenter does not die, I can happily reboot any of the servers without downtime
13:05<MilkyJoe>Boohemian, try it and see... If you manage to use 'SELECT password FROM users;' as a password, then there is something wrong with your script
13:05-!-jas4711 [] has joined #linode
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13:06<hawk>Boohemian: How special are we talking?
13:07<Boohemian>hawk: @ ! &
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13:08<JshWright>did you try them?
13:08<MilkyJoe>Boohemian, one thing to remember with MySQL... you should not allow root access to the outside world... obscurity is not security
13:08<hawk>Boohemian: Ok, so only moderately special. I think that should be fine
13:09<Boohemian>MilkyJoe: right, i made it only available on localhost
13:10<Boohemian>hawk: why do some characters screw with mysql?
13:11<MilkyJoe>I access root on my own MySQL setup from my home via SSH tunneling... and I firewall everything on Linode and open ports only when they need to be open
13:11<nDuff>Boohemian, if you're using bind parameters (ie. interacting with your database _correctly_), then you don't need to worry about it...
13:11<nDuff>Boohemian, ...but if not, google for "SQL injection attack"
13:12<MilkyJoe>*I used to get log entries from 192.168.*.* appearing in my logs.... do not trust the local network either
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13:12<hawk>Boohemian: For a password? I don't know what would actually be a problem, but I would stay away from stuff where the risk of different encodings, etc is high
13:12<nDuff>Boohemian, ...short form: If user-entered data ever makes it into the text of your SQL queries, you're Doing It Wrong.
13:13<nDuff> should be passed out-of-band, as data, not interpreted as code (which text substitution makes possible)
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13:15<hawk>nDuff: While you make a good point, I just have to point out that he was talking about passwords
13:15<hawk>(as in passwords for the mysql users)
13:15<MilkyJoe>and that is a very valid point... if your web server is localhost... and your mysql has root access from localhost only... this is where the whole SQL injection term comes from...
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13:16<nDuff>hawk, ...ahh, I was thinking it was passwords for an _app_ which was authenticating against MySQL
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13:16*nDuff fails at attentiveness.
13:17<MilkyJoe>MySQL passwords are stored as CHAR(41) hash encrypted... i am unsure on the ratio of collisions... but it is always possible no matter what password you use
13:18<MilkyJoe>the best thing to do is to simply not use your pet/daughter/car name and go for a random
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13:21<MilkyJoe>...i have a story about my own passwords... heh... I had a bag of fridge magnetic letters and numbers... I then picked 15 out of a bag
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13:21<hawk>Yeah, my thinking is just that in terms of characters one probably wants to stick to the basics somewhat (printable ascii or something to that regard), to reduce the risk of interesting encoding problems
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13:25<MilkyJoe>seems chars would work... but... ya do not want encoding probs (as said by hawk )
13:25<MilkyJoe>mysql> SELECT ENCRYPT('!@#$');
13:25<MilkyJoe>| ENCRYPT('!@#$') |
13:25<MilkyJoe>| 9yKVfaSQKt2QY |
13:26-!-Ken_ [~textual@] has joined #linode
13:26<MilkyJoe>yer php or whatever function you are using that you are cleaning b4 database insertion may or may not allow it
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13:31<MilkyJoe>*and to add, cleaning your users input before inserting is a must... username: 'USE mysql; SELECT * FROM user;' should never work!
13:31-!-eyecool [~eyecool@] has joined #linode
13:32<MilkyJoe>...ask Sony :P
13:34<nDuff>MilkyJoe, no need to clean it, just don't use string substitution!
13:35<nDuff>MilkyJoe, if you're using bind parameters, your data won't be interpreted as SQL, so it doesn't _matter_ how malicious it may intend to be -- it never gets interpreted at all.
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13:37<MilkyJoe>I just love the topic... ...I look at stuffs I have done in the past and think 'damn, If I owned Facebook, I would be in trouble' ...heh
13:39<MilkyJoe>and the thing is, I prolly would still be... security... well... if yer on the internet... you are never secure... so ya have to draw the line somewhere.... no such thing as uuber secure
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13:42<kronos003>what can i do with a machine that has 360mhzcpu/32mbRam/2gb hd? is there a way to get a browser running on it?
13:43<AviMarcus>kronos003, is it worth the power usage?
13:43<amitz>IE 5!
13:44<kronos003>i have a friend who doesnt have a computer, and im hoping to give her something that will give her internet and wifi
13:44<AviMarcus>how generous of you.
13:44<DephNet[Paul]>kronos003, try Damn Small Linux,
13:44<kronos003>that wont get infected by viruses
13:44<kronos003>ill check that out
13:44<amitz>kronos003: the ram is the tough part.
13:45<Ahmuck>or antix
13:45<Ahmuck>or puppy
13:45<kronos003>i dont think i have any laptop sdram laying around anymore
13:45<kronos003>this is an old compaq laptop - c1997?
13:47*MilkyJoe thinks you like this girl and want her to visit often... with a system that old, as soon as she visits youtube, she will be wanting help... heh... great plan :)
13:47<amitz>unless you want to run old browser, it's tough
13:48<Ahmuck>or midori
13:48<Ahmuck>for the browser
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13:50<kronos003>lol - just want help her out and this machine justr got dropped in my lap so to speak
13:50<kronos003>other option is to put it on ebay for a penny
13:50-!-lakin [] has joined #linode
13:50<skegeek>Does the library have information for setting up FTP? I just looked around, haven't found anything yet though.
13:51<MilkyJoe>kronos003, nope... i think you are doing the right thing!! ...heh... she will have to visit you regulary :)
13:51<JshWright>!library ftp
13:51<+linbot>JshWright: 1. Transfer Files with Filezilla on Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop - | 2. Transfer Files with Cyberduck on Mac OS X - | 3. Host Discussion Forums with SMF -
13:51<+linbot>Please use SSH/SCP/SFTP/rsync-over-ssh instead of FTP:
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13:51<kronos003>will D.S.L. run wifi?
13:52<AviMarcus>there's wifi in that hunk of garbage?
13:54<kronos003>AviMarcus: not sure - kinda doubt it - but i have a usb wifi that ill be tossing in
13:55<MilkyJoe>If she is a geek, she will love tweaking it... maybe even using it to remote desktop to a faster system... if this is your gift... you could remain alone for the rest of your life!
13:55-!-bbeausej [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:57<kronos003>not courting her
13:57<MilkyJoe>ok, ok... i joke... ...I have plenty of older systems i mess about with... but... I am wondering about what it is?!
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13:58<MilkyJoe>360mhzcpu/32mbRam/2gb ... ... gotta be less than P3?
13:58<skegeek>When I mentioned file transfer, I was referring to setup of the server end of it.
13:59<AviMarcus>skegeek, if it's just you, then just sftp/rsync as your user
13:59<Fenaralan>wat is this
13:59<skegeek>The problem is I get denied everytime I try to upload. It used to work but now denies everytime.
14:00<skegeek>I'm getting denied write permission and don't understand it.
14:01<skegeek>I don't find a config file for VSFTPd and so I don't know what to do next.
14:02<AviMarcus>.. are you logging in as a user with limited permission, trying to write to a file that you don't have permission?
14:03<nDuff>skegeek, ...generally speaking, it's preferable to use sftp (which is part of the SSH protocol, so you don't need any separate daemon for it) rather than FTP -- the latter has effectively no provisions for security.
14:03<skegeek>Oh, probably. I have to su/sudo from the user to do some things via SSH.
14:04<hawk>nDuff: Well, if you use the SSL/TLS variations (FTPS essentially), then there is security
14:05<nDuff>hawk, ...granted. Not sure when that's worth the trouble as opposed to using sftp, given that ssh is generally Already There.
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14:06<skegeek>Well, shouldn't I at least be able to upload files to my user's home directory??
14:06-!-verb [~blarg@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:da] has joined #linode
14:07<MilkyJoe>with no config file for VSFTP, it does suggest mis-configured... are you able to scp/rsync as the user?
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14:10<skegeek>Milky is that question for me?
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14:12<MilkyJoe>errm... dunno... ima plodding about in the dark...
14:12<skegeek>I can connect to the server via SFTP with FileZilla
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14:13<MilkyJoe>thatsa start... you are not using VSFTP that way... but more likely SSH
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14:13<phyber>if you had read the vsftpd man page, you would know that writing is disabled by default.
14:13<phyber>but yes, use ssh/sftp instead.
14:14<skegeek>I thought vsftpd was the server filezilla was connecting to...maybe not.
14:15-!-andrew [~andrew@] has joined #linode
14:15<nDuff>in sftp mode (as opposed to ftps), filezilla is connecting to sshd
14:17<MilkyJoe>I do not like FTP due to its plain text authentication n stuffs, but have to run an FTP service because my clients want it... unfortunately, I am no help with VSFTP.... I use proftp... and even in that configuration, there are a large number of things you need to edit before it all works
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14:18<phyber>enable TLS, no more plain text. or are they using super old clients that can't do that?
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14:19<MilkyJoe>phyber, heh... yups... i tell them... they pay the bills... so I let them do it their way :(
14:20<MilkyJoe>i have even done the ssh jail stuffs to let them sftp without access to the system... it is never used!
14:22<MilkyJoe>...thank gawd for fail2ban tho ... at least that makes things a lil more difficult for ppl wanting to brute force
14:23<skegeek>vsFTPd is setup to allow writing, so that's not the problem.
14:23<MilkyJoe>skegeek, have you got vsftp logging anywhere?
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14:25<skegeek>vsftpd.conf doesn't have anything about logging, and vsftpd_user_conf is blank.
14:26<skegeek>Ah, found it.
14:28<MilkyJoe>...I have no experience with vsftpd (ooh... wait... i did use it years ago) hmm... i have a tiny tiny tiny lil bit of experience with vsftpd... hmm... prolly not enough to be of help tho...
14:28-!-amarc [] has joined #linode
14:28<MilkyJoe>...but yeah... and the same with anythin ya run... verbose logging while ya test :)
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14:33<MilkyJoe>it could be summat silly like vsftp dropping privilages... and you need to be in the ftp group... not good if you are planning mass hosting... but... dunno... get yer logs on :)
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14:36<skegeek>That's interesting. I found the log and it shows a connection yesterday from a different IP.
14:37<MilkyJoe>heh... ya will get millions of those
14:37<hawk>Because the internet loves you that much
14:37<MilkyJoe>because you have a door open and ppl are curious
14:37-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep]
14:37<skegeek>I don't know hwo I have the door open....
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14:38<sarkis>hey guys, would you always recommend ubuntu LTS vs the newer ones for servers?
14:38<MilkyJoe>if you are running a service on an open port... then itsa there for anyone to knock upon
14:38<sarkis>im debating between ubuntu lts and debian 6
14:39<sarkis>i need nginx 1.0 for example, it is much easier to use with ubuntu
14:39<sarkis>er get*
14:39<skegeek>I have my server firewalled, so I wouldn't call it open.
14:39<sarkis>as just add the official nginx PPA and use apt-get
14:39-!-cereal|Away is now known as cereal
14:40<hawk>sarkis: The upside with the LTS releases is that you won't have to upgrade as often. Depending on your use that may or may not be a big deal.
14:40<MilkyJoe>sarkis, i use ubuntu LTS... but... meh... it is easier with ubuntu because things are a lil more up to date... but...
14:40<MilkyJoe>...ubuntu can be a pain in the butt... ya sometimes have to tame it for server use
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14:42<hawk>MilkyJoe: Towards the end of an LTS cycle things are definitely not up to date.
14:42*MilkyJoe shouts 'hands up for ubuntu users that wonder why upstart is needed'
14:42<MilkyJoe>yeps hawk m8
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14:42<JshWright>I have to confess... Upstart has grown on me...
14:43<MilkyJoe>i think upstart is great for desktop usage
14:43-!-dansmith [~dan@] has joined #linode
14:43<MilkyJoe>why plop mysql on it?
14:43-!-tempesta [] has joined #linode
14:44<MilkyJoe>mysql is only the beginning too
14:45<MilkyJoe>i have had to completely redo all my needed runlevels n boot order because they do not seem to understand that order is needed in some setups
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14:45<MilkyJoe>but... my desktop... tis great :)
14:46<nDuff>MilkyJoe, ...upstart in particular may not be ideal, but _some_ kind of replacement for SysV init is called for.
14:46<nDuff>(then again, upstart may _be_ ideal -- I haven't looked at it enough to have a strong opinion)
14:46*nDuff <- runit partisan
14:47<dansmith>anyone else having connectivity issues to dallas?
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14:47<nDuff>MilkyJoe, ...having an init system let processes just stay dead when they randomly die is not the way to have a reliable system. (Having processes that randomly die isn't so great either, but one should still have a way to recover).
14:47-!-freshmilk [~work@] has joined #linode
14:48<MilkyJoe>agreed... but bootorder is important too... they seem to prefer boot speed
14:48-!-freshmilk [~work@] has quit []
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14:49*nDuff is of two minds on that
14:49<nDuff>frankly, if you have dependencies, they should be declared.
14:49<freshmilk>i want to host multiple rails apps from the same linode with different domains for each, what is the best way to do this?
14:50<nDuff>otherwise, you don't know which of the ordering decisions in your boot order are happenstance, and which are intentional and for-cause
14:50<phyber>your process shouldn't just die. you're comfortable with something restarting it when it's broken?
14:50<nDuff>freshmilk, do they need SSL?
14:50<nDuff>phyber, if the alternative is that my VPN or sshd is dead and I can't get in? Hell, yes.\
14:50<MilkyJoe>perhaps that is where they are getting it a lil off atm... itsa why ima hating upstart on a server
14:50<nDuff>freshmilk, ...well, then it's easy -- you just set up your server's IP address in DNS for all those domains.
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14:51<skegeek>Shouldn't vsftpd.conf be owned by vsftpd user?
14:51<freshmilk>ok, i'm a total linux admin noob. how do i configure the dns? is there a guide you can point me towards?
14:51<nDuff>skegeek, no, that would be bad
14:51<skegeek>Ok, so root is right?
14:51<nDuff>skegeek, you don't want anyone who breaks into the vsftpd user account to be able to reconfigure the daemon!
14:51<nDuff>skegeek, owned by root, readable by the vsftpd user.
14:53<phyber>nDuff: good point. i hadn't considered sshd or vpn. but i've never encountered either of them just dying. (yay)
14:53<skegeek>I should shut down ftp anyway as you were right that I'm actually using ssh
14:53<nDuff>phyber, I have. Granted, I might have been doing this a bit longer.
14:54<MilkyJoe>does upstart actually make services persistent?
14:54<nDuff>MilkyJoe, it _can_. Whether it's configured to do that out-of-the-box on Ubuntu I couldn't say.
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14:55<MilkyJoe>it does seem like a nice idea... but it has caused me headaches :P
14:55<JshWright>dansmith: have you used a tool like mtr to see where your connectivity issues are?
14:56<dansmith>JshWright: yeah, and I have determined that the host is down, linode is working on it
14:56<dansmith>I initially thought it was connectivity because the linode web UI said the box was up and running
14:57<skegeek>Why is email hosting considered time consuming? Is it just deleting email periodically, checking spam catcher and logs appropriately that makes it so consuming?
14:58<v0lksman>skegeek, since 80 - 90% of what hits your server is garbage...yes...that is the time consumer...
14:59<v0lksman>it's like constantly being under attack...spammers find new ways to bypass your filters...script kiddies constantly trying to use you as a relay etc...
14:59<MilkyJoe>skegeek, here ...have my customers... there are not many... but they cause me sleepless nights somethimes
15:00<MilkyJoe>plz... plz... take them!!
15:02<MilkyJoe> example... i had a server crash early hours of one morning... I awoke and found my gmail filled with obscenities
15:03-!-dansmith [~dan@] has left #linode [Ex-Chat]
15:03<v0lksman>munin/monit/nagios solves that problem pretty quick... :)
15:03<MilkyJoe>so now i run 2 mail servers... double trouble
15:04-!-tempesta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04<robbie`>MilkyJoe: why not use google apps for mail? might save you some trouble :P
15:04<MilkyJoe>yeah... i do need better monitoring
15:04<skegeek>Well, I was only talking about hosting my own site email, but I see your point.
15:04<MilkyJoe>and google apps... i have more than 15 users on multiple domains
15:05<v0lksman>MilkyJoe, reseller! :)
15:05<robbie`>MilkyJoe: google will give you up to 50 users per domain on the free accounts
15:05<skegeek>You mean 15 users on each domain, or across several domains?
15:05<MilkyJoe>*cries over mail*
15:05<v0lksman>robbie`, not anymore...10 max
15:05<skegeek>I don't use Google Apps, but something similar.
15:06<robbie`>v0lksman: really?!?! thats rough
15:06<v0lksman>skegeek, similar? do share... :)
15:06<robbie`>v0lksman: you are correct
15:06<v0lksman>robbie`, yeah...still not bad for free but........
15:06<Yaakov>Microsoft Live
15:06<skegeek>There are other providers of what Google offers.
15:07<robbie`>I set up apps for my clients sometimes, rarely does a small biz need more than 10 email addresses. plus you can still set a catch all i believe
15:07-!-tempesta [] has joined #linode
15:07<Yaakov>Microsoft Live is actually very good.
15:07<v0lksman>robbie`, yup and unlimited aliases
15:07<Yaakov>And they do a custom domain thing like Google Apps.
15:07<v0lksman>Yaakov, said Microsoft and very good in the same sentence...I can no longer hear you... :P
15:07<MilkyJoe> yeah... no 3rd party mail... i was asked to set it up and things grew a lil bit... (nothing huuge) ...but before I knew it, I had to sort out spam that was hitting a few times a second... then their bloomin mailboxes... self signed cert was not good enough... and the list of problems goes on and on
15:08<MilkyJoe> has been quiet for a few weeks now... i expect trouble around the corner
15:08<v0lksman>just kidding...not a fan boy...but I'm not down with MS live...Google are email king...scary as that is
15:08<Yaakov>MilkyJoe: EMail is a morass, that's why Google can make people want to believe their services are "free".
15:09<Yaakov>v0lksman: Have you tried using Microsoft Live?
15:09<robbie`>is anyone an apps reseller?
15:09<v0lksman>Yaakov, not for custom domain stuff but for public mail yes...
15:10-!-ia [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:10<hawk>"public mail"?
15:10<Yaakov>Well, it's not the same as GA but it is competitive, and if someone doesn't want to use Google, it's a viable alternative.
15:10-!-thepinkster [~mrpink@2001:470:1f06:956::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:12<v0lksman>Yaakov, good to know...Always good to have alternatives... :)
15:13<v0lksman>hawk, you know...where people can read your email n stuff... :)
15:13<v0lksman>I meant more generic, etc...
15:13*MilkyJoe hates email services ...more now than ever
15:14*v0lksman hasn't hosted email in years and sleeps better for it...
15:14<MilkyJoe>damn youzz :P
15:15<Daevien>oy. waiting almost 2 weeks for the a/c to get fixed here. they can't fix it due to seagulls nesting which (stupidly) are a protected species. so they need permit ot kill them. turns out, manage rbeen talkign with wrogn agency for 2 weeks to get the permit. so now we're back to square one and i'm still roasting
15:16<bigjocker>The nameserver 'NS3.ZONEEDIT.COM' refused our AXFR request.
15:16<Yaakov>Live does POP but not IMAP, that's probably the worst part.
15:16<bigjocker>has zoneedit blocked AXFR requests from linode?
15:16<hawk>Yaakov: Any particular advantage to the Live service other than it being run by <not Google> (which may or may not matter, personally it doesn't seem like a big difference whether it's Google or Microsoft that reads my email)
15:16<MilkyJoe>yeps... tis a pain... and altho i love linode... I had to get me a another node in newark to keep the peeps happy.... would be nice if the cost of hosting the email services for the few covered the costs... but nope...
15:17<v0lksman>Yaakov, even with custom domains? that's a deal killer right there!
15:17<Yaakov>Well, Google *does* read your mail, they tell you they do, and the index it. Microsoft doesn't. Also, the Apps are on-line versions of Office, which is good for some people.
15:18<Yaakov>Also, you get 25GB of non-mail storage "SkyDrive".
15:19<MilkyJoe>microsoft junk all your mail if you do not jump thru hoops in the orrect order... and then they suggest you use one of their third parties to host your mx for you
15:19<skegeek>Is there a limit on all api requests or just the bandwidth check?
15:19<JshWright>there's a limit on creating new nodes
15:20<JshWright>to prevent an errant script from bankrupting you...
15:21-!-loxs [~loxs@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:22<MilkyJoe>btw... speaking of hotmail/msn/live ... what exactly is the difference between SPF and sender ID?
15:22-!-lakin [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:22<bob2>to be clear, google actually doesn't read your email
15:22<bob2>but they do let their ad-pickng software analyse it
15:23-!-skegeek [] has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> <-]
15:23<Yaakov>bob2: They index it, and they use the index for searches and ads.
15:23<bob2>for sure
15:23<MilkyJoe>and yeah... Google, the lesser of the evils.... every site I visit, I get ads for music software... ... heh...I am thankful itsa not p0rn!
15:24<Yaakov>That index is only a policy away from being used with data mining for any purpose.
15:24-!-flowbee [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:25<Yaakov>Combined with Google Analytics, it could easily figure eactly who you are, who your friends are, what you are interested in, if you are a subversive, if you are involved in criminal behavior, etc.
15:25<MilkyJoe>I AM NOT A NUMBER.... I AM A FREE MAN!
15:25<Yaakov>Given the amazing quantity of data Google has, they literally know more about you than you do.
15:26<Yaakov>Only policy prevents its use for any purpose.
15:26<JshWright>s/know more about you than you do/know things about you that you aren't even aware of yourself/
15:26<bob2>I'm absolutely unconvinced that MS does anything different
15:26*MilkyJoe no longer uses google analytics
15:26<Yaakov>JshWright: They also know secrets others are trying to keep from you.
15:27<tempesta>can anybody propose a way to serve audio/video without much complications as far as setting it up goes?
15:27<Yaakov>bob2: First, they CAN'T do the same. They don't have th infrastructure. Second, Google has been all about collecting data from Day 1. That's not Microsoft's business model.
15:27<bob2>tempesta: what does 'serve' mean
15:27<MilkyJoe>tempesta, icecast.... encode with ogg/theodora?
15:27<Yaakov>tempesta: You can use .flv and a flash player for the browser...
15:28<hawk>Yaakov: Well, they do have their own ad services, they do have the live services, they have bing... they are essentially working in the same fields, just not as successful so far
15:29*MilkyJoe was thinking live audio/video @ tempesta
15:29<Yaakov>hawk: They don't have Google Analytics. They don't have the same indexing ability for the inbox data.
15:29-!-tempesta [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:29<Yaakov>Google Analytics is a key piece here.
15:30<Yaakov>It knows exactly what you are doing on the web because it's "free" and so just about every damned website uses it.
15:30<Yaakov>By combining the email traffic with the web traffic they have a much richer mix for data mining than just a bunch of email.
15:31-!-Tank71 [~Tank71@] has joined #linode
15:31<Yaakov>Most people are probably INCREDIBLY boring...
15:32<MilkyJoe>i love google ... but have become wary of some of its antics... and I was not too bothered... until I migrated to australia and they refused to transfer cash to a different currency from my 5 years of displaying bloomin ads for them... I no longer have google ads and no longer have analytics
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15:34<hawk>Yaakov: Yeah, it seems they don't have a tool like that, for now anyway. Pretty sure they had a go at it, though.
15:38<hawk>I guess my point is just that I don't think it's so much about different intentions, it's just that their attempts have not really taken off which I guess makes them somewhat more harmless.
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15:39<bigjocker>does linode have any limitation on the amount of DNS queries per month?
15:40<AviMarcus>caker said the DNS machines are hardly breaking a sweat
15:40<bob2>no officla one
15:41<Yaakov>hawk: Here's a (biased) site on Google with some good information you may not have. You may or may not share the conclusions but the information may change your mind on details:
15:42<Yaakov>The author(s) of that site are a little bit unhappy with Google...
15:43<AviMarcus>" Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery based on geolocation." oh nos, my IP number is private, gosh darn it!
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15:46<+linbot>New news from forums: Increasing swap in Performance and Tuning <>
15:47<Yaakov>AviMarcus: The import of that is not privacy, it's information bubbles.
15:47<+linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Deploy a Structured Wiki with TWiki on Fedora 14 <> || Use Public Key Authentication with SSH <> || Host Discussion Forums with phpBB on Debian 6 (Squeeze) <> || Use MySQL Relational Databases on Arch Linux <
15:47<AviMarcus>information bubbles?
15:48<navi>Information bubble wrap
15:48<navi>*pop pop pop*
15:48<navi>*pop pop*
15:49*navi giggles like a girl
15:49<Yaakov>AviMarcus: If one person in Europe gets certain results for a set of search terms, and another person in the US gets DIFFERENT ones...
15:49<Yaakov>AviMarcus: This is happening right not.
15:49<navi>Yaakov: Normally it's just prioritisation
15:49<AviMarcus>indeed. And two different people in the USA get different results, too, based on their search history
15:50<navi>Yaakov: I did a few experiments, normally the entire first page is identical but ina different order
15:50<navi>Yaakov: Or you might be suggested the / .jp variants of each site
15:50<@mikegrb>mmm cake
15:50<AviMarcus>my account searching for "cake" gives me cakephp as #2 results. From an incognito wondow, cakephp is #5.
15:51<navi>I don't know if it's just me, but I /like/ that.
15:51<+linbot>New news from forums: Non-ASCII characters when using Lish via Ajaxterm in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
15:51<navi>If google knows that I'm a developer, and brings dev-based links to the top, it saves me time
15:52<navi>If it also knows which news sources I trust (it also does this through google reader integration), and can pull up their articles on a story, that's faster for me
15:53<Yaakov>navi: Actually, Google results are both preference-based (your perpetual cookie and unique browser id, combined with GA traffic) and geographical. It is very possible, and even common, for two people o get enitrely different results with the same terms.
15:54<navi>Yaakov: Unique browser ID?
15:55<navi>Yaakov: Are you talking about the unique combination of headers that the... EFF had a page about?
15:55<navi>Yaakov: Ah, yes.
15:55<navi>Yaakov: That wouldn't work on me.
15:55<Yaakov>Did you try?
15:55<navi>Since at any time I can be using one of four browsers, all of them nightlies
15:56<navi>So the version is repeatedly changing, for instance
15:56<AviMarcus>navi, you like to live on the edge? :)
15:56<Yaakov>They also have IP address, and if you allow a google cookie, you are already tagged.
15:57<navi>Yaakov: My ISP is currently sucking to the point where we have to reboot the modem on a near daily basis
15:57<navi>I guess they could identify me by the fonts I have installed.
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15:57<Yaakov>navi: The other people who you deal with, and who email you with GMail aren't so spastic about identity.
15:58<navi>Yeah, they can /definitely/ know who I am with fonts
15:58<navi>I have a font I handwrote and scanned and made, and it's got my name
15:58<navi>So... nobody else has that.
16:01<navi>My IPv6 NTP server is having a few little outages
16:01<+linbot>New news from forums: Ubuntu kernel 2.6.32-32-virtual hangs with pv-grub-x86_32 in General Discussion <>
16:01<Yaakov>I would expect that eventually they will have an adaptive algorithm for identity tracking.
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16:02<navi>Given that the IPv4 one on the same machine shows no outages...
16:02-!-tempesta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:02<navi>Am I to assume the HE Tunnel I'm using is intermittently down?
16:02<hawk>navi: I would investigate that further if I were you
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16:04<navi>hawk: Uhhh... how?
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16:07<hawk>navi: Do a bit of monitoring of the ipv6 connectivity in general, see if it all dies now and then...?
16:08<navi>hawk: And if it does?
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16:09<hawk>Then the answer is very likely that the tunnel was down at that point
16:09<navi>hawk: I think i can surmise that already?
16:09<hawk>Ok, then I misunderstood what you said as looking for a way to confirm that
16:10<navi>hawk: If one box has IPv4 in and IPv6 in, the pool's IPv4 checks show the server was up 100%, the IPv6 checks show three downtimes...
16:10<navi>hawk: And the NTP server daemon says it's been running for over a day...
16:10<navi>hawk: Can we not already identify the problem to be localized to the IPv6 connection?
16:11<hawk>navi: THe internet is a large scary place, the problem is not necessarily on your end
16:11<navi>21:02 < navi> Am I to assume the HE Tunnel I'm using is intermittently down?
16:11<hawk>What about that?
16:11<navi>That was my original suspicion
16:12<navi>i.e. it's HE's fault.
16:12<hawk>navi: Possibly
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16:12<hawk>navi: Or someone else between you and the other endpoint (the pool check thingy)
16:15<hawk>If you're already sure that it's the tunnel (with even checking, from the sound of it), why are we even discussing this?
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16:17<navi>hawk: I was actually hoping for someone to just confirm that my logic was sound.
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16:18<hawk>navi: I'm contesting your logic
16:18<hawk>navi: You're essentially saying that because there was a connectivity issue between two nodes on the internets, it has to be the tunnel at one end.
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16:19<navi>hawk: I see your point.
16:19<hawk>I'm saying that it definitely can be, but that you should verify that (as I suggested initiallY)
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17:31<nthcxd>I have a very quick question regarding setting up firewalls
17:32<nthcxd>are linodes situated behind a dedicated firewall box?
17:32-!-user1471 [] has joined #linode
17:33<navi>nthcxd: In what way?
17:33<@caker>nope - you're connect to the raw internets
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17:33*navi thinks he's broken his munin
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17:44*mdcollins laughes at cakers use of l8r
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17:49-!-BarkerJr is "BarkerJr" on #tor #tardigans #nottor #moocows #linode @+#Eggdrop
17:50<elkingrey>Hello, I'm having a peculiar issue today. I find that out of the blue, my email accounts aren't working properly. I have three separate email addresses that I run through my server. They are all able to receive mail no problem, but for some reason if I try to send an email, I get a notification that one of my email addresses is unable to connect to SMTP server. It doesn't matter which email address I try to send from either, it always
17:50<elkingrey> asks for the password from only one of them. And when I put in the password it says it is still unable to connect. Any ideas?
17:53<BarkerJr>is it your smtp server?
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17:54<elkingrey>probably, but I wouldn't know how to check or remedy
17:54<Kyhwana_>er, you should probably figure out where your SMTP is supposed to be first.
17:54<Kyhwana_>are you running your own SMTP server on your linode?
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17:55<elkingrey>I am looking now at my i/o graphs. There was a huge spike some hours ago. This happens once every couple of months, where my sasauth blows up and I need to reboot my server to fix it. Perhaps it blew up, fixed itself, but just needs the email part to be rebooted
17:57<Kyhwana_>so check your smtp server log files and see if it's running?
17:57<elkingrey>can't remember how to do that
17:58<Josh>I'll give you a hint: It's likely in /var/logs/
17:59<elkingrey>nevermind, /var/log
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18:10<NewbUser>When I try to SSH into my Linode, after I type in my password, the terminal just idles. The cursor jumps down 1 line, and I can type characters if I want... But I can't actually enter any commands. Nothing happens. Help?
18:10<BarkerJr>it might take up to three minutes if your dns is broken
18:12<Josh>NewbUser: PuTTY?
18:12<NewbUser>I'm on Ubuntu 10.10
18:14<Josh>Is launching a shell? Your Linode, that is.
18:14-!-andrew [~andrew@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:14<Josh>Can you log in from console?
18:14-!-elkingrey [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:15<NewbUser>Josh: Do you mean LISH?
18:16<NewbUser>Yes, I can log in via LISH, apparently!
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18:17<Josh>NewbUser: Is this a new Linode?
18:17-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:17<NewbUser>Josh: Nope, this Linode has been active for a number of months.
18:18<Josh>NewbUser: Has it run out of RAM? :p
18:18<NewbUser>Josh: Hahaha possibly! I'll check in a sec. One more thing worth mentioning though: I had just finished configuring SFTP-only access to users on our Linode (including myself)... Could that have messed things up?
18:19<bob2>uh yes
18:19<Josh>Hm... That too.
18:19-!-kulp [~kulp@2002:adff:e9ca::1] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
18:19<bob2>in the sense that that is equivalent to making ssh logins not work anymore
18:19<NewbUser>Crud. Umm... Is there a way to revert that? *dunce cap*
18:19<bob2>on the plus side, mission accomplished!
18:19<Josh>NewbUser: Well, you logged in via LISH, so ...
18:19<dominikh>so just replay the backup you did
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18:21<NewbUser>Josh: How do I remove the sftp-only configurations via LISH? Not sure what to type exactly..
18:21<NewbUser>dominikh: No back-up available. The sysadmin before me wiped them for some lovely reason.
18:21<Josh>NewbUser: Just reverse the configuration that you did earlier.
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18:23<NewbUser>Josh: Okay, I'm sure that'll fix the issue. Lol thanks a lot
18:23<NewbUser>i've done worse
18:23<NewbUser>hahahah thanks all
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18:50<LinGuy>Hi, I'm setting up my first VPS with linode. I have nginx up and running and now I'm trying to figure out how I should setup the websites. Should I create a separate user for each website I want to run, and place the files in the home directory of each user?
18:52<bob2>does 'website' = 'php app'?
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18:53<seanh-ansca>it's more like, when it isn't plain html, it's '$language app'
18:53<seanh-ansca>but all of the output html to be rendered by the browser
18:53<+linbot>New news from forums: fastcgi, suexec, and phpmyadmin in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
18:54<bob2>ok sure
18:54<bob2>but for anything other than php the answer is simple
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18:55<bob2>everyone else has a variety of sensible app servers, and it's easy to run one as a user for each app
18:55<bob2>for php you have to cobble things together like fpm
18:56<seanh-ansca>suexe + php-cgi/fpm seems reasonable enough for me
18:56<seanh-ansca>it just doens't have it's own built in webserver like ruby/python do
18:57<LinGuy>website = rails app
18:57<bob2>I think you mean wbst
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19:06<scottg>First visit, is this proper place for a Linode support Q?
19:07<navi>caker: Stop acting so nice. Yoy're creeping me out...
19:07<scottg>Thanks, will fire away...
19:07<scottg>On Ubuntu, not getting emailed my crontab results, though I have MAILTO set, and syslog confirms that it runs...
19:08<scottg>Anything else I need to do to enable email?
19:08-!-Ahmuck [] has joined #linode
19:08<scottg>...and yes it definitely produces output.
19:10<navi>wow, I didn't realise CA, CC, GOV, MIL and TV were still non-IPv6able
19:10<navi>Actually, they might be now, this looks like an old list
19:11<bob2>scottg: really?
19:11<bob2>scottg: what do your mail logs say?
19:11<navi>scottg: Do you have an MTA like sendmail running?
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19:12<BarkerJr>navi: canadians are always behind on everything
19:13<navi>hah. The .xxx TLD is fully IPv6 ready
19:13<scottg>bob2/navi: Assumed core Ubuntu included an MTA, so no! Just installed sendmail, will configure and see if that fixes it. Thx
19:14<bob2>scottg: don't install sendmail
19:14-!-lunks [~lunks@] has quit [Quit: lunks]
19:14<bob2>install postfix
19:15<bob2>why what?
19:15<scottg>bob2: any specific reason? btw - just got crontab after installing sendmail!
19:15<bob2>scottg: because postfix is 1000% less likely to drive you nuts, and ubuntu (from debian) has an excellent package for it
19:15-!-lunks [] has joined #linode
19:16<navi>Odd question: If an RIR gets really low on IPs, would it ask for some from another RIR?
19:16<BarkerJr>they won't get low, they'll just start only giving out tiny blocks
19:16<scottg>bob2: ah, but despite my noob Q i'm actually familiar with sendmail. will stick with what i know for few times i need to send out mail. thx
19:17<navi>BarkerJr: So they won't balance it out?
19:17<Solver>I believe not but many orgs are members of multiple RIRs and some RIRs allow transfer of address space between members
19:17<navi>BarkerJr: i.e. APNIC has 75k /24s and ARIN has 514k /24s
19:17<BarkerJr>I don't think so... it'd get ugly is a /8 was split into many continents, eh?
19:17-!-nicinabox [] has quit [Quit: nicinabox]
19:18*BarkerJr shrugs
19:19<BarkerJr>only rocket scientists could understand iana and icann
19:19<Solver>anyone who wants a large v4 allocation is pretty much out of luck at this point though
19:19<navi>I don't think IANA and ICANN understand IANA and ICANN
19:20<navi>What are companies doing if they can't get those allocations?
19:20<navi>A lot of NATing?
19:21<Solver>navi: that's the question isn't it. There aren't any great answers
19:21<Solver>navi: carrier grade NAT is full of problems
19:21<navi>Solver: There is a good answer - using their IPs sensibly
19:21<Solver>navi: even sensible growth wouldn't help. the Internet is growing exponentially
19:21-!-scottg [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
19:21<Solver>s/sensible growth/sensible usage/
19:22<Solver>of course int he past a lot of organisatons didn't use addresses sensibly making the problem even worse :)
19:22<navi>And I'm sure they can't go back to those companies and ask for half the space back
19:22<Solver>it wouldn'
19:22<Solver>t help
19:22<BarkerJr>I tried to give back my linode's ipv4 but they wouldn't let me :(
19:23<Solver>even if all the early wastage was reclaimed it would delay the problem for perhaps a year
19:23<retro|blah>o hai apple, can you spare some addys? :3
19:23<retro|blah>o hai mit, can you spare some addys from
19:23<navi>And a load of those IPs are full of IBR probably
19:23<navi>given they're from corporations, they're probably worse than most IPs for random packets
19:24<navi>(like the 1.x.x.x range)
19:24*Solver has a 1/8 on his phone sometimes
19:24<BarkerJr>why would they want to? they probably enjoy playing with their ipv4's as much as we enjoy playing with our ipv6 /64 allocations, making and such
19:25<BarkerJr>why wouldn't you want a memorable ip for every node?
19:25<Solver>with v6 you almost can :)
19:25<navi>With v6, the whole internet can be memorable
19:25<Solver>check out the AAAA for when they announce it yet
19:26<BarkerJr>if you have a /8 in ipv4, you can, too :)
19:26<Solver>it was cute
19:26<retro|blah> has IPv6 address 2620:0:1cfe:face:b00c::3
19:26<Solver>you too can do stuff like that ;)
19:26<navi>is the :3 an intentional face?
19:26<BarkerJr>I think so!
19:27<retro|blah>Yeah could be
19:28<navi>there's :3, :5, :0, :b, :c, :d
19:28<navi>That can make faces
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19:51<tempesta>is there a simple way to serve audio/video without making it a grand unifying theory?
19:51<bob2>too vague
19:52<tempesta>well, i need to serve audio from html web page so that it does no look like a flash page but plays it right from the page
19:53<+linbot>New news from forums: Linode rocks in Customer Testimonials <>
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19:55<akerl>Did someone say looping background MIDI?
19:55<tempesta>someone recommended mediacore, but when i looked at it, it looked like a grand unifying theory to me in terms of complexity of just setting it up
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19:59<tempesta>so the question is: is there a simplier way to serve audio/video from html page without setting up the universe, like in mediacore?
20:00<tempesta>bob2, thanx
20:02-!-sarkis [~sarkis@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07<Kyhwana_>tempesta: use html5, force everyone to upgrade to browsers that do html5 video properly. Done.
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20:12<Boohemian>anybody here use php-cgi to run php apps with nginx?
20:12<Boohemian>how does it compare to php-fastcgi?
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20:17<tempesta>Kyhwana_, jeez, i am reading it here and it does look like a grand unifying theory. if html5 makes it easier, then i will do that because that mediacore framework seems like an overkill
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20:21<+linbot>New news from forums: Linode Managed Services in General Discussion <>
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21:01<Boohemian> so this vhost configuration goes inside sites-enabled/* for nginx and that's it?
21:02<@caker>looks good to me
21:03<Boohemian>caker: and i can change the dir to the more usual /var/www and then edit the symlink direction found here to react to that?
21:03<@caker>you, sir, can do whatever you want
21:05-!-Aubrey [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:08<Boohemian>caker: oh, do i put that file in sites-available or sites-enabled first?
21:11<bigjocker>Boohemian, a site must be available before it's enabled ...
21:12<Boohemian>bigjocker: but it says there is nothing in sites-available , but i just placed the nginx server config in sites-enabled? i'm trying to do a symlink...
21:13-!-vcardoso [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:13<bigjocker>unless you are using some microsoft product ... in that case it must be in site-ideas first, then in site-drafts, then site-development, then site-connection, then site-debug ... and then sites-available ... and there are 10 states between available and enabled
21:14<bigjocker>Boohemian, er
21:14<bigjocker>Boohemian, are you trying to use nginx configuration inside apache? :S
21:14<Boohemian>bigjocker: am i reading it wrong? i just tried the command here and i got an error msg
21:15<Boohemian>that's what the guide says. did i read it wrong? no, i'm trying to use nginx on its own, instead of apache
21:15<dcraig>yo dawg we herd u like web servers so we put an nginx in ur apache so u can host while you host
21:15<Boohemian>ln: creating symbolic link `/etc/nginx/sites-enabled/': File exists after i did ln -s /etc/nginx/sites-available/ /etc/nginx/sites-enabled
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21:18<Boohemian>got it! :)
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21:35<mackss>hrm, is there something wrong with the sales system? i just tried to buy a new server and got an error message
21:36<mackss>whoops something went wrong :(
21:36<vraa>dns propogation works like magic i think
21:36<shinobi>Hi All. Anyone know if the "Configure SSL for Secure Websites Using Apache 2 on Ubuntu 10.10" tutorial on Linode would work for 11.04?
21:36<vraa>i updated a domain yesterday and things didn't propogate until a few hours ago, then i updated one just now and it seems like it's propogated everywhere already!
21:36<bob2>propagation isn't really a thing
21:37<bob2>shinobi: almost certainly
21:37-!-brenton [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37<bob2>if you don't access the name then it won't be cahced for you
21:37<bob2>so the change will be visible as soon as linode's nameservers reload in <= 15 minutes
21:37<shinobi>bob2: cheers
21:38<@caker>mackss: our fraud check service croaks on ipv6 addresses. You're all set
21:38<mackss>caker: how do i complete step 3?
21:38<@caker>you already did
21:39<@caker>just go ahead and log in
21:39<@caker>it failed after the signup trying to auto activate you .. which I just did manually
21:39<mackss>caker: thanks
21:40<shinobi>Hi caker
21:40<shinobi>any ideas about using the ssl for apache 10.04 tutorial for 11.04?
21:40<shinobi>good idea?
21:40<mackss>Debian 6 or Ubuntu 10.04?
21:41<shinobi>sorry 10.10
21:41<@caker>LTS or nothing, unless you like upgrading the entire distro every 12 mo
21:41<shinobi>would it work for natty
21:41<mackss>11.04 ?
21:41<bob2>11.04 is not an lts
21:41<@caker>shinobi: it would probably work -- go for it
21:41<mackss>what is lts?
21:41<shinobi>cheers mate
21:42<bob2>long term support
21:42<bob2>if you want to use ubuntu, use 10.04
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21:43<shinobi>do you know when 10.04 lts end of life might be?
21:43<+linbot>New news from forums: Any Linode recommended managed services providers? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
21:43<bob2>er .04
21:44<@caker>5 years from April, 2010
21:44<shinobi>nice, I should prob switch before setting up any further
21:44<shinobi>.....or not actually
21:45<shinobi>The prob I had was with php 5.35
21:45<bob2>switch = reinstall
21:45<shinobi>it doesn't ship with it
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21:45<shinobi>and I need that for my site
21:45<bob2>why do you need such a specific php version?
21:46<shinobi>moodle won't have it any other way
21:46<shinobi>5.3.5 or bust
21:46<shinobi>I know
21:46<shinobi>does phpmyadmin work well on 11.04
21:46<bob2> appears to disagree
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21:47<ajmitch>could be demanding 5.3.5 due to security issues in previous versions, the fixes for which were backported to php in lucid
21:47<bob2>sure, phpmyadmin is in ubuntu
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21:49<shinobi> recommends no lower than 5.3.2
21:50<bob2>which is not waht you said to begin with
21:50<shinobi>can't remember why I didn't go for that though
21:50<bob2>I'd ignore it
21:50<bob2>because of what ajmitch said
21:50<shinobi>I'll look into that again
21:50<retro|blah>Couldn't you mix and match targets anyway if you wanted to?
21:51<ajmitch>or because php makes backwards-incompatible changes in minor versions, being a special snowflake & all
21:51<bob2>retro|blah: not easily
21:51<bob2>retro|blah: either you use chroots or you rebuild php from source
21:51<shinobi>that might certainly be it (what ajmitch said)
21:54-!-gilaniali [] has quit [Quit: gilaniali]
21:54<shinobi>and with moodle marching on to their next major release it feels like a safer bet to use as recent a php version as pos
21:54<bob2>not really
21:55-!-tempesta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:55<shinobi>not the very latest though
21:55<bob2>I rate "make security updates my distro's problem" very very highly
21:55<shinobi>actually looks like it is :)
21:56<bob2>ahead of "my shitty php app says it needs some random version"
21:56<shinobi>less 1
21:56<navi>shinobi: Huh?
21:56<bob2>(yes I knoew that is redundant)
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21:56<ajmitch>some days I wish php would DIAF
21:57<navi>But... it works.
21:57<bob2>me too, I call those days 'days that end in a "y"'
21:57<navi>While something works, don't prod it for fear it will come tumbling down.
21:58<shinobi>thx 4 the insights all
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21:59<navi>RRD is super weird
21:59<bob2>you mean super AWESOME
21:59<navi>The same data has been plotted onto two graphs, and it's decided on different scales for both
21:59<navi>The top data item is 60.00. On one, the graph goes up to 60, on the other up to 70
22:01-!-lakin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
22:01<navi>I guess I shouldn't leave it to pick its own axis
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22:01<navi>same thing again, one graph has a max of 120, shows 130. Same graph has a maximum of 130 in a different period, axis goes to 210
22:02<ajmitch>could be rounding errors with floating point numbers
22:03<navi>wow, munin shows when I upgraded the kernel very clearly
22:03<navi>it's the place where my ram drops by about 40MB
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22:12<Kuboing>a 512 linode has 512MB memory, right?
22:12<Kuboing>why does mine only have 425MB?
22:12<bob2>where do you see that?
22:12<Kuboing>or is this mb vs MB?
22:12<@Praefectus>Kuboing: kernel reserved memory
22:12<Kuboing>in free -m and htop
22:12<Kuboing>oh, okay
22:13<navi>Kuboing: Are you running 32 or 64 bit?
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22:13<bob2>87MB seems like a lot
22:14<navi>Kuboing: There we go then
22:14-!-LinGuy [] has quit []
22:14<navi>My 32 bit kernel leaves 453MB.
22:14<navi>I understand the 64 bit kernels leave less.
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22:23<skegeek>Are Linode users also considered to be partners when making use of the referral link or just affiliates?
22:23<@Praefectus>neither, they are referrers
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22:24<navi>IPv6 NTP traffic has stabilized at 0.8% for me.
22:24<navi>I wonder if I could filter that to see how much is tunnels and how much is true v6
22:25<ajmitch>you'd have to find the prefixes for the common tunnel brokers
22:25<skegeek>So I couldn't promote the referral link using a "partner" page?
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22:28<navi>They're not really a partner.
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22:31<bob2>you'd just be some dude getting a small kickback
22:32<navi>In my opinion, an affiliate/partner requires an agreement beneficial to both parties
22:32<navi>In this case, you're being provided a service. There is no opposite direction
22:32<navi>You're not an affiliate of Walmart just because you shop there.
22:33<@Praefectus>you arent a partner of microsoft because you use windows either
22:33<skegeek>I guess I thought the referral link was a bit more of an affiliate program than it is.
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22:34<navi>skegeek: The way I got around it was a small 'Powered by Linode' graphic, linking to the referral link.
22:34-!-ryankan1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:35*ajmitch has only used referral links for someone he personally knows
22:35<skegeek>Did you use a graphic from Linode or make your own?
22:35<navi>Linode has some
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22:36<batanxe>Hello. Using nginx, how do I redirect to a subdomain persistently after a user logs in? For example, after the user1 logs in at, user should always hit till user1 logs out.
22:37<bob2>you could set a cookie
22:37<bob2>or use ip hashing
22:37<skegeek>I suppose I could use it as a page in a "Giving Back" type section.
22:37<@Praefectus>mmmm cookies
22:37<bob2>or not
22:37-!-rideh [] has joined #linode
22:37<@Praefectus>pay it forward?
22:37<sub>giving back? isn't that what paying your bill does?
22:37<bob2>best way to give back to linode is to not take a cut
22:38<@Praefectus>bob2: pure awesomeness
22:38<navi>surely the best way to give back to linode is to beta test their stuff
22:38<navi>help them get it release ready and stable
22:39<skegeek>Heck...probably just make a Referrals page and include the link there.
22:39<bob2>or just have a link to!
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22:42*navi laughs at oatmeal
22:42<navi>[ ]
22:42<ajmitch>the new vim vs emacs
22:43<ajmitch>emacs has more apps for it
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22:44<dominikh>emacs doesn't rape your keybowrd
22:44<navi>But it does rape your document if you forget to press i
22:45<Kuboing>I thought i was for indenting or insert
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22:45<navi>you're suddenly halfway down the document, having pasted over all your work when trying to type something
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22:45<dominikh>sounds like vim.
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22:49<sub>it's really not that bad
22:49<sub>press "u"
22:49<sub>and, really, "i"? I find I press o, O, or A most of the time
22:49<ajmitch>what have I started?
22:49<dominikh>... and then people try to tell me that emacs is confusing
22:50<dominikh>i, o, O, A... really?
22:50<ajmitch>C-x C-c isn't confusing
22:50<bob2>yes learning a proper editor means remembering some things
22:50<sub>i: insert. o: insert a new line below this line. O: insert a new line above this line. A: append this line
22:50<bob2>emacs and vi both require that
22:50*ajmitch does tend to use both quite frequently
22:50<bob2>if you find emacs easy to use it is because you have used it for a long time
22:50<dominikh>yeah, but you try and tell me how o maps to "insert a new line before this line". that's worse than trying to remember kanji...
22:51<sub>you could just cursor to that line and press "i", nobody is forcing you to remember those hot keys
22:51<bob2>and emacs uselessly binds C-x C-o tp the same thing
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22:52<dominikh>open!=inserting a new line, and C-x C-o is... delete-blank-lines, and yes, god knows why.
22:52<skegeek>Alright, I have a referral link using a nice image now.
22:53<navi>dominikh: Oi! Kanji are easy
22:53<sub>also: nano
22:53<dominikh>navi: you gotta be kidding :/(
22:53<navi>dominikh: Well, the easy ones are
22:53<sub>easy kanji are easy
22:53<dominikh>yeah, the kanji for.. 1-5 didn't seem that hard iirc
22:54<navi>dominikh: The first 500-1000 are a breeze
22:54<dominikh>navi: you sound like someone who learned with Heisig's books
22:54<navi>dominikh: Then it gets harder
22:54<navi>You surprise me, sir
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22:55<dominikh>how so
22:55<navi>You managed to guess that from that statement?
22:55<dominikh>I don't know of any other folks who consider it easy
22:55<navi>remembering the Kana was a waste of a book
22:56<navi>Just looking at them is sufficient to understand them for me
22:56<navi>Many people I know do consider me to have an eidetic memory, though
22:56<dominikh>hah, I preferred learning with Remembering the Kana, except for the parts where he got the pronunciation/example words wrong...
22:56<navi>so pictorial representations are always easy for me
22:56<dominikh>lucky you
22:57<dominikh>I even forgot most Kana again after I had to stop learning due to exams..
22:57<navi>It took me a day of wandering around my house going ra ri ru re ro to get the pronunciations
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22:57<dominikh>I was going to say "I am German, the pronunciation isn't that hard" when I noticed you used the r ones :/
22:58<navi>I always struggle with 'fu'.
22:58<navi>I mean, half the time it sounds like it's said 'foo' but the rest it's a sort of 'hoo'.
22:59<dominikh>haha, yeah. Lovely language, right :)
22:59<navi>But reading katakana is easy, you just have to map it onto an english word
22:59<navi>(sometimes I map it onto the wrong word, but oh well)
22:59<rideh>When working with baked in admin - can i use a set to display objects an item is linked from?
22:59<dominikh>navi: you mean hiragana? or katakana in particular?
23:00<dominikh>oh.. mea culpa
23:00<rideh>hah, wrong place
23:00<dominikh>go on
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23:00<dominikh>confusing hiragana and kana :(
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23:01<navi>dominikh: e.g. taimu rimitto. I initially thought it was "Time Remit", but it's, of course, "Time Limit"
23:02<dominikh>oh, that...
23:02<dominikh>to be honest, I am already regretting my plan to properly learn the language
23:03<navi>dominikh: You're partway there now
23:03<dominikh>regret is a step, isn't it
23:03<navi>dominikh: I think the best thing I ever did to learn japanese was get 'Kana Flip' and 'Kanji Flip' off the App Store while they were free
23:03<navi>dominikh: And then just practise in my spare time
23:04<dominikh>flash cards, mhm. Using Anki for that. Well, supposed to. After the exams were over, I never picked it up again properly
23:04<navi>dominikh: I have anki too
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23:41<+linbot>New news from forums: Faster notification alerts? in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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23:59<+linbot>Point (0.13126232, 0.58917057) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 46747 of 59354 (π ≈ 3.150385820669205 - 0.008793167079412). http://π
---Logclosed Tue Jun 14 00:00:31 2011