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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-06-29

---Logopened Wed Jun 29 00:00:35 2011
00:00<+linbot>retro|blah: Point (0.67911484, 0.64775650) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 91049 of 115647 (π ≈ 3.149204043338781 - 0.007611389748988). http://π
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00:10<jmartinez>I can't upload to my VAR folder
00:10<akerl>jmartinez: Why not?
00:10<jmartinez>The folder is owned by www-data
00:10<akerl>the /var folder?
00:10<jmartinez>my user is part of that group
00:10<Kyhwana>jmartinez: check your permissions
00:11<akerl>jmartinez: If /var is owned by www:data, you've messed up
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00:11<jmartinez>perms are 775
00:12<akerl>jmartinez: Are you sure that's where you're actually trying to upload?
00:12-!-orpheus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:13<jmartinez>You're right
00:13<jmartinez>I was uloading to a subdirectory
00:13<jmartinez>How do I change the perms
00:14<akerl>That said, having your web stuff owned by www-data isn't the best plan.
00:14<jmartinez>and what would you recommend?
00:15<akerl>Having your site files owned by whoever is going to admin them.
00:15<jmartinez>even for wordpress sites?
00:15<akerl>a site is a site is a site
00:16<@heckman>I have my web-server owning my wordpress sites.
00:16<@heckman>Then again, WP gets angry if it cannot write its own files.
00:16<jmartinez>I need people other myself to be able to admin thier blogs
00:17<akerl>jmartinez: The problem only presents during updates.
00:17<akerl>And by "problem", I mean "wordpress expecting your config to be insecure in order for it to function"
00:17<jmartinez>Okay so they can upload and install plugins
00:18<akerl>I doubt they'd be able to do that.
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00:35*djg320 head bops
00:36*djg320 listens to Thunderstruck while compiling anope
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00:37<@Perihelion>Atheme or bust
00:38<djg320>Should I try it out?
00:38<@Perihelion>It's worth trying imo
00:38*djg320 hunts down
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00:40<djg320>any unreal love?
00:40<@Perihelion>I use it on unreal with no issues
00:40*djg320 compiles
00:41<djg320>You can tell it's been a while, I forgot to install gcc initially...
00:41<@heckman>I have love for all IRCds. charybdis is nice.
00:42<@Perihelion>chary/atheme play nicely together (rightfully so)
00:42<djg320>what's the debian package that refers to the basic compiling tools?
00:42<djg320> was it?
00:42<@Perihelion>build-essentials ?
00:42-!-andrew_ [~andrew@] has joined #linode
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00:42<@heckman>I don't believe it's plural.
00:43<@Perihelion>I never remember
00:43<bob2>also need fakeroot and dpkg-dev if you want to build packages
00:43<@heckman>I thought they were bought out by AT&T.
00:43-!-byronb [] has joined #linode
00:44<djg320>Fetched 8,771 kB in 0s (17.4 MB/s)
00:44<djg320>Have some throughput
00:44-!-omy [] has joined #linode
00:44<omy>hi all
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00:46<omy>Have any of you had issues trying to disable root and using ssh keys to access the server?
00:46<+linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
00:46<@Perihelion>I have not since I don't personally do that on my boxes
00:47-!-tempesta [] has joined #linode
00:47<djg320>Disable root physically or access via ssh?
00:47<@heckman>Perihelion: I only do half of that. I keep root enabled, but only accessible via SSH keys.
00:47<omy>I see. I have followed the guides on here verbatim, and my user account is able to log on, but it is still asking for a password o.O
00:47<@Perihelion>heckman: I allow SSH as root. If you can guess my passwords you deserve access.
00:48<@Perihelion>Also sleep. o/
00:48<@heckman>Perihelion: I have the same mentality, except for my SSH keys. If you can obtain my key and guess the passphrase you deserve access. :p
00:48<@heckman>Perihelion: goodnight! o/
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00:48<omy>@djg320 : I wanted to disable root physically and than just have my user account access via ssh
00:48<Kyhwana>omy: "PubkeyAuthentication yes" "PasswordAuthentication no" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
00:48<@Perihelion>Keys suck if you play magical computers like me. I won't put the same key on multiple computers so some servers end up with like 12 keys on the list D:
00:49<Kyhwana>restart sshd
00:49<@Perihelion>k now sleep
00:49<omy>good night perihelion
00:49<omy>@Kyhwana that I have done
00:49<Kyhwana>and also "PermitRootLogin no"
00:50<omy>yes :)
00:50<Kyhwana>then that will disable root logins and only allow pubkey auth with your non-root users
00:50<djg320>I usually do PermitRootLogin no and switch to a non-standard port and run with it
00:51<omy>certainly...but than when I log on with my user account, the server still asks for a password. It is not supposed to.
00:51<Kyhwana>did you restart your sshd after you changed the sshd_config ?
00:52<djg320>Would it have to do with PermitEmptyPasswords?
00:52<djg320>I've not personally used auth keys
00:52<omy>I have that set as no
00:52<Kyhwana>check the logs then
00:52<omy>ok. will do
00:52<Kyhwana>otherwise I blame user error ;)
00:53<@heckman>I think the usual culprits are: Permissions issues (Permissions are too open) or the client you are connecting with is not properly configured to use pubkeys.
00:53<@heckman>I usually set everything in my ".ssh" folders to 700: chmod -R 700 /home/<USER>/.ssh
00:54<Kyhwana>If PasswordAUthentication is set to no, your client will just say "no authentication "ways" left" and disconnect
00:55<djg320><3 nano
00:55<@heckman>I've begun to love vim...
00:55<@heckman>...started. I've started to love vim.
00:55<navi>heckman: How can you have only just STARTED loving it?
00:55<@heckman>Only started using it like three weeks ago.
00:56<navi>heckman: Get out of my sight!
00:56*navi turns around
00:56-!-Sir_Henrich [~Ragde@] has joined #linode
00:56<navi>Okay, you're not in my sight any more
00:57<djg320>ctrl+x y/n = win
00:57<@heckman>:q! = win
00:57<navi>AND :q looks like a face, so bigger win
00:57<@heckman>^ That's what I was just typing. Lol
00:58<navi>ctrl+x y/n looks like urmom's face
00:58<@heckman>In the words of George Takei
00:58<@heckman>Oh my!
00:58<djg320>My mom would be closer to yes/no/abort/retry
00:58<navi>I retried urmom
00:59<navi>Why do I have the option to abort urmom?
00:59<djg320>I most certainly hope so
00:59<navi>Pro life!
01:00<djg320>Well, abort whatever you're attempting ;x
01:00<navi>If I abort urmom, you'd never be born
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01:01<djg320>Please don't confuse me like that
01:01<navi>I had to do a question in a physics exam a couple days ago where it was talking about a child and mother, the mother travelling into space and coming back 'younger' than the child.
01:01<navi>Yay, special relativity
01:02*djg320-server hides in Linode
01:03*navi is going to go watch a ridiculous TV show
01:03<navi>The BBC have Mr T presenting a web video clip show
01:03<djg320>That's subjective
01:03-!-byronb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:03<djg320>Okay, maybe not.
01:03<navi>Called "World's Craziest Fools"
01:04<navi>It's a ridiculous show. Nobody can say anything else about it
01:05<djg320>Kernel panics do not make a happy day
01:05<navi>Depends what kind it is
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01:06<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:06<navi>My friend got a cake with a kernel panic on for his birthday. Geeky cake, delicious kernel panic.
01:06-!-omy [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
01:06<+linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
01:06<navi>djg320: What?
01:07<djg320>Wondering what scripts that bot has
01:07<djg320>If it's got a script for vicoden, I'll take it
01:08<dcraig>try /msg linbot list to see the supybot modules installed
01:08<encode>it doesn't. House too them all
01:09<dcraig>do /msg linbot list misc to see the commands provided by the misc module
01:09*djg320 noob
01:10<+linbot>djg320: Linode512 - 598, Linode768 - 236, Linode1024 - 242, Linode1536 - 216, Linode2048 - 162, Linode4096 - 28
01:10<dcraig>!gnu Linode
01:10<+linbot>dcraig: GNU/Linode
01:10<djg320>almost 600 512s
01:11<+linbot>djg320: Newark512 - 105, Newark768 - 57, Newark1024 - 48, Newark1536 - 20, Newark2048 - 5, Newark4096 - 4, Newark8192 - 3, Newark12288 - 2, Newark16384 - 2, Newark20480 - 2
01:11-!-Zar_Pedro_IV [~Ernest_vo@] has joined #linode
01:12<dcraig>only two 20480s available
01:12<dcraig>better hurry
01:12<djg320>I snatched one already :)
01:12<dcraig>!leet linodeavailnewark
01:12<+linbot>dcraig: 1!n0d34v4!1n3w4rk
01:13<dcraig>!leet [linodeavailnewark]
01:13<+linbot>dcraig: N3w4rk512 - 105, N3w4rk768 - 57, N3w4rk1024 - 48, N3w4rk1536 - 20, N3w4rk2048 - 5, N3w4rk4096 - 4, N3w4rk8192 - 3, N3w4rk12288 - 2, N3w4rk16384 - 2, N3w4rk20480 - 2
01:13<@heckman>!supa1337 [avail-newark]
01:13<+linbot>heckman: |\|3\/\//-\|2|<512 - 105, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<768 - 57, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<1024 - 48, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<1536 - 20, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<2048 - 5, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<4096 - 4, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<8192 - 3, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<12288 - 2, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<16384 - 2, |\|3\/\//-\|2|<20480 - 2
01:13*djg320 fizzles
01:13<navi>!supa1337 [ask]
01:13<+linbot>][f j00 |-|/-\\/3 /-\ q|_|3$+;o|\|, p13/-\$3 j|_|$+ /-\$|< ;+. |)o|\|'+ 1oo|< fo|2 +op;< 3><p3|2+z. |)o|\|'+ /-\$|< +o /-\$|<. |)o|\|'+ P/\/\! |)o|\|'+ /-\$|< ;f p3op13 /-\|23 /-\\/\//-\|<3, o|2 ;|\| +|-|3 /\/\oo<| +o |-|31p. J|_|$+ /-\$|< +|-|3 q|_|3$+;o|\| $+|2/-\;g|-|+ o|_|+.
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01:14<djg320>knew it
01:14<dcraig>!jeffk [ask]
01:14<+linbot>If you have a qeustoin, pllaese juts ask it!!!! Don"t look for toopic experts!!!! Dotn ask to ask!!!! Dont PM! Don"t ask if poeplle are awake, or in teh mood to hellp!!!! Just ask teh question striaoght out!!!
01:14<navi>what is jeffk?
01:14*scorche twitches
01:14*djg320 keeps distance
01:15<bob2>yeah, wise to keep your distance from esr
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01:17<+linbot>djg320: Dallas512 - 135, Dallas768 - 54, Dallas1024 - 66, Dallas1536 - 50, Dallas2048 - 25, Dallas4096 - 3, Dallas8192 - 3, Dallas12288 - 2, Dallas16384 - 2, Dallas20480 - 2
01:18*djg320 swoops in and takes a 2048
01:18<djg320-server>screen detach fail
01:19<@heckman>tmux ftw
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01:19<+linbot>Ahoy mateys!
01:19<djg320>I should give up
01:20<+linbot>Give up breaking what?
01:21<djg320>Terminal session, apparently.
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01:41<jmartinez>WHo should own /var/log/nginx/error.log;?
01:41<jmartinez>I am getting this error:
01:41<bob2>whoever owns it
01:42-!-andrew_ [~andrew@] has joined #linode
01:42<bob2>why did you break it
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01:44<dcraig>you got owned
01:45-!-tempesta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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01:46<@heckman>jmartinez: Who are you running nginx as? Who owns that file?
01:46<jmartinez>Still not working
01:46<@heckman>Also, why di
01:47<@heckman>Who is Nginx running as and who owns that file?
01:47<jmartinez>owned by root
01:48<jmartinez>how do I find out what it's running as?
01:48<@heckman>ps aux
01:48<@heckman>ps aux | grep -i "nginx" (will probably be more better)
01:48-!-sivy [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:50<navi>more betterer
01:50<navi>or less worserer
01:51<@heckman>hrm, I *think* that should work.
01:51<@heckman>But I never installed nginx from packages.
01:51<@heckman>So I dunno what quirks it has.
01:51<jmartinez>it was just working fine, then I bumped a permission somwhere I think
01:51<@heckman>So unbump it?
01:51<Parallax>I thought nginx ran as www-data or w/e
01:52<jmartinez>I just need to figure out what everything needs to be set at
01:52<@heckman>Parallax: The parent process runs as root, childs run as www-data
01:52<@heckman>Man, you broke something. It's failing on the and the log.
01:53<@heckman>What'd you do before it stopped working?
01:53<navi>heckman: rm -rf /
01:54<navi>heckman: Actually, is that the problem, or the solution?
01:56<navi>he wow
01:56<navi>heckman: wow
01:56<@heckman>The best lines are: <HoopyCat> i think i'm going to go... pick my wife up <TJF> yeah, i hear my mom calling
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01:57<+linbot>heckman: Now 33% full (about 4 hours remaining). Last emptied today at 00:45 UTC, last full today at 00:30 UTC after running for 9.8 hours.
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02:04<djg320>Thing it's time to get very comfortable with ipv6
02:04<jmartinez>Somthing is wierd. For testing, I set the whole var folder (-R) to 777 and now am getting this error:
02:05<+linbot>djg320: Now 33% full (about 4 hours remaining). Last emptied today at 00:45 UTC, last full today at 00:30 UTC after running for 9.8 hours.
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02:08<jmartinez>I wasnt restarting nginx as sudo
02:08<jmartinez>Simple fix
02:13<@heckman>Why are you using nginx anyway?
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02:15<Parallax>heckman: because nginx rules
02:16<@heckman>I meant a more technical explanation...I whole-heartedly agree.
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02:22<skegeek>Unless I'm confused, I can only run one linode at a time with single Linode 512 account right?
02:23<dcraig>how many did you want to run at once?
02:23<skegeek>Eh, I've thought about completely redoing my server, but I don't want any downtime.
02:23<@heckman>You can purchase a second Linode, and then remove the old one when you are finished. You'll receive a prorated credit for it when it's removed.
02:24-!-vandemar [rings@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:24<dcraig>a 512 only costs 67 cents a day!
02:24<bob2>note: will have to front up the full $20*prorataing
02:24<dcraig>at that price, it's like you're stealing nodes
02:25<navi>At 67¢ a day, it's actually a much greater initiative to be up to date
02:25<skegeek>I have installed updates.
02:25<navi>Rather than "It will mean days of downtime" or "I'll have to spend $20" it's just "Sure, why not, I'm sure that change is down the back of my couch"
02:25<navi>Do linode accept coins covered in fluff?
02:26<dcraig>I think you have to pay for at least a year at a time in order to use things you find in your furniture
02:26<@mikegrb>mmm cake
02:26<navi>dcraig: cake crumbs?
02:27<skegeek>Although, I cannot remember the last time it was restarted (except a couple times Linode did it).
02:27<navi>dcraig: That remote control for that set top box I no longer own?
02:27<navi>dcraig: urmom?
02:28<skegeek>I don't know why I've been told my 512 can't do much, 512 RAM should be a good start for a server..
02:28-!-vandemar [holy@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #linode
02:29<dcraig>who says that?
02:29<Solver>skegeek: depends what your demand is
02:29<Solver>I have 2 x 512 doing various things. I could get away with 1 if I had to
02:29-!-skegeek [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:30<alohatone>512 can do plenty
02:30-!-skegeek [] has joined #linode
02:30<+linbot>THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!
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02:31<skegeek>That was weird, lost connection after my last post.
02:32<niftylettuce>any pro shell scripters wanna take a peak at this:
02:32<@heckman>512 can do plenty if you tune it properly.
02:32<@heckman>niftylettuce: 404
02:32<niftylettuce>currently outputs undefined
02:33<niftylettuce> **
02:33<niftylettuce>unsure why its not copying to clipboard the gist URL
02:33<niftylettuce>not getting any errors, just "undefind"
02:33<niftylettuce>undefined** blargh
02:33<niftylettuce>(plugin for gedit)
02:35<niftylettuce>i have tutorial written for installing node/npm/xclip/gista
02:35<@heckman>I'm not familiar with the gista tool. And GOogle thinks I mean Vista...
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02:39<skegeek>Is "Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Disk Image" something from Linode which shouldn't be deleted or just a "backup" copy?
02:41<@heckman>uh...that would probably be your primary disk image.
02:41<@heckman>Where all of your data is stored.
02:41<@heckman>I'm going to go with "It shouldn't be deleted"
02:41<navi>Yeah, that's what you're mounting on your linode right now probably
02:41-!-lunks [] has quit [Quit: lunks]
02:42<skegeek>It is the very last device in the mount list via dashboard.
02:42-!-shirro [] has quit [Quit: shirro]
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02:43<retro|blah>skegeek: Take a quick peek at the profile you're booted up to
02:43<navi>I can understand the confusion, I mean to some it may sound like the LiveCD-like image through which the OS installed onto your linode (if you think about it from a different angle)
02:45<skegeek>Well, I have two 512 Swap Images and three OS images.
02:45<navi>skegeek: And which of them are attached to what profiles?
02:45<retro|blah>You probably only need one swap image o.o;
02:47<skegeek>Two OS images are attached to the same profile, one isn't attached at all (that one I know is a backup copy containing some configurations).
02:49<niftylettuce>heckman: any luck br0?
02:50<@heckman>Work got kinda busy really didn't get a chance to look at the documentation. Where is the error being generated?
02:50<@heckman>Is that what's being put in to the clipboard?
02:50<niftylettuce>heckman: there is no error, its just outputting "undefined" to clipboard
02:50<@heckman>Where is undefined being generated at?
02:51<niftylettuce>heckman: from the value that gista command returns in "gista -n $GEDIT_CURRENT_DOCUMENT_NAME"
02:51<niftylettuce>heckman: maybe this will help --
02:52<niftylettuce>heckman: I tested output of $1 and $GEDIT... and it works fine
02:55<@heckman>niftylettuce: where is the $GEDIT_CURRENT_DOCUMENT_NAME variable being created?
02:56<@heckman>Does GEDIT set that by default?
02:57<niftylettuce>heckman: yea
02:57<@heckman>Well, it would appear it's not being set.
02:58<@heckman>Also. Change line 3 to export $PATH
02:58<niftylettuce>heckman: no its set by default, you don't have to define it
02:59<@heckman>actually.... You may want to change that a lot... I believe line two should be export PATH=$PATH:$HOME/local/node/bin
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03:00<niftylettuce>heckman: weird, I can't even get any of the basic demos to work @
03:00<@heckman>Also, add the following line in there: echo "$GEDIT_CURRENT_DOCUMENT_NAME" to see what the heck that variable has.
03:00*heckman has no idea then
03:01<niftylettuce>heckman: yea that var is okay it outputs the file's name currently open
03:01<niftylettuce>heckman: i'm having node.js folks try to test that npm package 'gista' to see if its not just me
03:01<niftylettuce>heckman: thank you for helping :)
03:03*niftylettuce rageface
03:04<niftylettuce>the party doesn't start until heckman walks in @
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03:05<@heckman>Christopher Walken is the man.
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03:07<MartyMacGyver2>Well, that was weird...
03:07<@heckman>You should fix that.
03:08<MartyMacGyver2>A question (not finding any answers online): I'm doing a snapshot backup and it says it's "in progress" and "needsPostProcessing"... what is that and how long does it take?
03:10<@heckman>MartyMacGyver2: That's the processing the backup system does after the backup to ensure everything completed successfully and prepare it for use as a restore.
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03:11<@heckman>The time varies based on a few things including, but not limited to, number of files and size of those files.
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03:12<MartyMacGyver2>I'm surprised the backup runs fast while this takes quite a bit longer then (backup appears to have taken just over 3 minutes, but it's been in "post" for 13 now.
03:12<@heckman>MartyMacGyver2: Yeah it can take a bit of time.
03:13<bob2>is 'post' copyingt data from lvm snapshot?
03:13<bob2>hm wait
03:13<MartyMacGyver2>Fair enough. Might be useful to have a note in the docs about it (from someone who knows the details).
03:14<MartyMacGyver2>It would seem once it's in "post" I could change or wipe the node without screwing up that backup (assuming "post" never fails)
03:15<MartyMacGyver2>(I almost called it a slice... guess where I'm moving from? :-D
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03:16<MartyMacGyver2>Is that a fair assumption (that once it's in the post-processing state I'm safe to continue working on my node)?
03:17<@heckman>Actually, while it's still in postprocessing I don't think you can erase a disk image.
03:17<@heckman>I believe it's still locked.
03:17<@heckman>But you could definitely change files on the system. But yeah, once the backup is "complete" you can go back to working.
03:19<MartyMacGyver2>Once it goes into postprocessing will any changes I make affect that backup?
03:19<@heckman>What do you mean?
03:20<MartyMacGyver2>(I'm reading on and this isn't covered)
03:20<@heckman>Oh, sorry. No, at this point any files you edit won't be affected.
03:21<nohh>should be able to change files at any time on your node regardless of anything backup related, no?
03:21<MartyMacGyver2>Ok (obviously before it gets to postprocessing it's not easy to say if a change will or will not go in (assuming it's not a shadow copy thing). That window is pretty tiny though, compared with postprocessing.
03:22<bob2>but inconsistent backups are teh suck
03:22<MartyMacGyver2>Oh, I agree.
03:22<MartyMacGyver2>And the advice on that page about DB backups is certainly helpful in that regard.
03:24<MartyMacGyver2>I'm just surprised at how long the post-processing step is (and surprised this question isn't asked more often).
03:24<MartyMacGyver2>Not a complaint so much as was wondering if it's frozen or something.
03:24<MartyMacGyver2>(Which, apparently it likely isn't.)
03:25<@heckman>What's your LinodeID?
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03:25<MartyMacGyver2>Sent privately.
03:26<MartyMacGyver2>It's NOT a big deal, I just wanted to understand it... it's probably all fine.
03:30<MartyMacGyver2>I will say the turnaround time (for setup as well as my configuration and data migration) was surprisingly fast.
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03:31<MartyMacGyver2>Linode has impressed me - kinda wish I'd done this months ago but the recent Slicehost changes are what spurred me to make the leap.
03:31<+linbot>New news from forums: Who's a good domain registrar? in General Discussion <> || Linode keeps ending dashboard session forcing login in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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03:40<dcraig>I was adding IPs to my login whitelist in the manager, and I noticed that every IP owned by linode seems to already be on my whitelist... is that really the case?
03:42<dcraig>for example, adding the IP with netmask generates the error "The IP specified is already included in your whitelist." even though does not appear in my whitelist
03:43<@heckman>I assume that's one of your Linode IPs? It may add your Linode IPs automatically.
03:43<dcraig>but it also doesn't work for, which is the IP for
03:43<dcraig>or for the IPs of other peoples' linodes in my subnet
03:44<@heckman>I can definitely ask about it.
03:44<dcraig>or for linode IPs in other datacenters
03:44<dcraig>all of linode is in my whitelist! :p
03:44<@heckman>Exclusive club?
03:44<dcraig>I think so !
03:58<@heckman>dcraig: don't trust me? :(
03:59<dcraig>oh I trust you
03:59<dcraig>but I'll forget to ask you about it tomorrow or whatever
03:59<@heckman>Oh, I PM'd myself on IRC to remind me. Hah.
03:59<dcraig>well now I feel bad
03:59<@heckman>Hahaha np.
03:59<dcraig>want me to close the ticket?
04:00<@heckman>This way is better anyhow. Nah, this way I can be sure one of the support-staffers will be sure to poke the devs in the A.M.
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04:04<dcraig>well before tonight I wasn't even using the whitelist
04:04<dcraig>so it's still a big improvement, even if every linode customer is already on my whitelist ;)
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04:05<dcraig>I'ma be ultra secure
04:05<dcraig>might even disable telnet
04:06<Tobarja>anyone done the hard drive resize in the last few days? how long should it take?
04:06<dcraig>I think it took me like 5 min?
04:07<dcraig>but i was using about a third of the drive space on my 512
04:07<Tobarja>ok. finished at 2 mins 20 sec... just getting antsy
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04:28<JediMaster>and so the disconnections start again lol
04:28<@mikegrb>mmm cake
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04:33*dcraig tickles jedimaster around a bit with a large mudminnow
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05:46<JediMaster>do we get billed for the next month on the 1st?
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05:47*Deadpan110 hopes not :P
05:48<Deadpan110>*spends money on beer*
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06:17<priyesh>using fail2ban-client, how do i unban an IP
06:21<Deadpan110>/etc/init.d/fail2ban restart
06:21<priyesh>Deadpan110: that would remove all banned IPs
06:21<Deadpan110>*fail2ban is not persistant... ya would loose bans on a reboot anyways
06:22<priyesh>Deadpan110: but i'm not rebooting.. i know it's something like #fail2ban-client get ssh actionunban <IP>
06:22<priyesh>that doesn't work, however
06:23<Deadpan110>hmm... not used it... but yeah... seeing what ya talking about:
06:24<Deadpan110>*as above tho... if i need summat urgently unbanned, i just restart the service
06:24<Deadpan110>any abuse wont take long to be re-blocked
06:26<nohh>wait a few minutes? (unless it's configured to ban forever)
06:29<Deadpan110>my biggest wish is for a tool to remove denyhosts bans
06:31<Deadpan110>lock yerself outta ssh ...log in from elsewhere multiple files for your ban... remove the entry from the server logs... maybe add it to your whitelist... etc
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06:34<priyesh>thanks for the help. i might email fail2ban dev team and see what they say
06:35<amitz>they will col ;-)
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06:36<jmartinez>I need my new nginx + php-fpm server to be able to send email using a php script
06:37<jmartinez>Here is the error code I am currently getting: Error sending email: Could not instantiate mail function.Error sending email: Could not instantiate mail function.
06:37-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
06:37<jmartinez>What should I install?
06:38<amitz>but combining knocker is a good idea
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06:43<amitz>knocker to open a ban.
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07:31<+linbot>New news from forums: Linode, please come to Asia in Sales Questions and Answers <> || What environment we need? in Performance and Tuning <>
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08:04<JasonBoxLaptop>wow, my idle ssh to linode dies, but nowhere else
08:04<+linbot>New news from forums: Just joined and completely happy in Customer Testimonials <>
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08:07<ekes_>JasonBoxLaptop: and it's not the sshd settings? ClientAliveInterval ?
08:10*Jippi I always use
08:10<Jippi>ServerAliveInterval 15
08:10<Jippi>ServerAliveCountMax 3
08:10<Jippi>in my .ssh/config file :)
08:13<JasonBoxLaptop>Could be
08:15<JasonBoxLaptop>Not be an issue with any other networks before now
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08:17<hawk>JasonBoxLaptop: Sounds like something in the path is dropping idle connections...
08:18-!-JediMaster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:18<hawk>("Normally" the *Alive* settings should not be necessary, afaik)
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08:25<Knorrie>hawk: generally 'something in the path' cannot drop connections because for a start, there's no notion of state or connection in routers in between startpoint en endpoint
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08:25<chesty>Knorrie: it's usually staeful inspection firewalls in the middle of the path
08:26<HoopyCat>(for example, NAT)
08:26<Jippi>Forgot I had a server with rackspace.. its been online for 571 Days now :P
08:26<praetorian>i can't believe it's not butter
08:27<hawk>Knorrie: Indeed, but firewalls are quite often stateful
08:27<HoopyCat>Jippi: $205.56 would buy a lot of coffee :-)
08:28<Knorrie>firewalls are not in the middle, but more near the ends i think
08:28<HoopyCat>Knorrie: it's all "in the middle" as far as TCP is concerned
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08:28<hawk>Knorrie: It's "in the path" even if it is relatively close to one of the endpoints
08:29<pauly>hi guys, my linode stopped, I tried to restart is, its schutting down now for already 9 mins!
08:29<chesty>there's a parrot in the room
08:29<pauly>Any idea's whats going on? my ip is
08:30<chesty>pauly: can you log onto lish and pastebin the output?
08:30<HoopyCat>NAT table entry expires, far end sends a packet to the near end, near end NAT returns ICMP ASPHINCTERSAYSWHAT, far end ssh server says WHAT, and the connection is dead... worse, the near end won't find out until it tries to send a packet, at which point the far end sends an ICMP ASPHINCTERSAYSWHAT...
08:30<bob2>unless you're an idiot and blocked icmp
08:30<Jippi>HoopyCat: 205.56 ? :)
08:31<chesty>SpaceHobo: smart phone stuff, you wouldnt understand
08:31<HoopyCat>Jippi: $0.015 * 24 * 571
08:31<Jippi>ah, hehe, yeah
08:31<pauly>@chesty: I can't login with lish
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08:31<bob2>NOT TWITTER
08:31<Jippi>HoopyCat: aparently there is an irc server on it, can't remember what for though :D
08:31<+linbot>irc is not twitter
08:32<HoopyCat>pauly: you might want to open a ticket so that someone on staff can take a look... sounds like something weird might be going on
08:32<fulcan>HELP server is crashed and the resucue console is a stripped down version?
08:32<hawk>fulcan: Stripped down how?
08:32<HoopyCat>Jippi: ok, add a few hundred bucks for bandwidth :-)
08:32<bob2>irc isn't twitter
08:32<hawk>fulcan: Assuming you're talking about lish, do use ssh to access it, skip the ajax nonsense
08:32<fulcan>I can't seem to access via console "without" the stripped down version?
08:32<fulcan>yes, ajax
08:33<fulcan>ssh is failing
08:33<hawk>fulcan: ssh to lish is failing?
08:33<hawk>fulcan: Or ssh to your linode is failing?
08:33<fulcan>i did an iptables config last night and double checked her a few times. woke up and the server was down.
08:33<fulcan>putty/ssh is failing
08:34<fulcan>and console connects but every command from linux is missing??
08:34<hawk>fulcan: putty/ssh to what? lish or your linode?
08:34<fulcan>putty fail
08:34<Jippi>HoopyCat: nah, its almost 100% idle.. I pay ~10$/mo
08:34<HoopyCat>fulcan: ssh to your linode (, or ssh to lish (
08:34<fulcan>ajax "half-fails"
08:34<fulcan>ajax "half-fails"
08:35<HoopyCat>what does the command prompt say?
08:35<hawk>fulcan: But you did ssh to lish, right?
08:35<pauly>@Hoopycat/chesty: tnx!, I added a ticket
08:35<fulcan>ssh fails completely!
08:35<hawk>fulcan: SSH TO WHAT?
08:35<HoopyCat>fulcan: ssh to your linode (, or ssh to lish (
08:35<fulcan>THE BOX IS DEAD!!!!!
08:35<hawk>Ah, trolls
08:35<fulcan>what is (
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08:35<chesty>this is comical
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08:36<HoopyCat>fulcan: you'll probably want to open a ticket.
08:36<fulcan>ssh "to the ip" fails!!
08:36<chesty>which ip? your linode or lish?
08:36*HoopyCat leaves it for the people paid to handle stuff
08:36<fulcan>the console SHOULD give me regular access but it is a BASTARD linux?
08:37<@jed>fulcan: check your open tickets
08:37<@jed>oh, carry on, never mind
08:38<Deadpan110>I have the same problem... I can't find the 'Start' menu
08:38<fulcan>why is the console missing every major command?
08:38<bob2>stop it dude
08:39<pronto>"major" command?
08:39<fulcan>emerge ain't there?
08:39<fulcan>nano ain't there
08:39<fulcan>they were there yeterday??? WTF???
08:39<bob2>fulcan: jesus
08:39<bob2>fulcan: login to the lish ip
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08:39<HoopyCat>fulcan: the console on your linode is exactly what you make it. linode has nothing to do it, unless the prompt says "lish", in which case you aren't talking to your machine.
08:40<fulcan>what is 'lish.ip"?
08:40<+linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log in to the Linode Manager. LISH's primary function is to allow you to access your Linode's console, even if networking is disabled.
08:40<chesty>what's a node?
08:41<bob2>what's a basically
08:41<fulcan>then I am looking at the WRONG box via ajax, wtf???
08:41<chesty>ILO is like a hammock, right?
08:41<HoopyCat>fulcan: what does the prompt say?
08:41<Deadpan110>I thought Lish was a soft drink Developed by Linode that tastes fantastic with a lil glue and alcohol
08:42<fulcan>not my command prompt that I saw yesterday via ssh/putty, that's for sure
08:42<HoopyCat>fulcan: well, what does it say?
08:42<+linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
08:42<bob2>you need a screenshot
08:42<bob2>after 10 minutes a straight answer is not likely
08:42<praetorian>yeah, screenshot required
08:43<chesty>SpaceHobo: I can't paste, it won't take my password
08:43<bob2>chesty: **********
08:43<HoopyCat>fulcan: ok, that doesn't look like the lish management prompt, so you are probably talking to your linode. which distribution are you running?
08:43<praetorian>root@hvc0:? is there pv-grub involved her?
08:44<chesty>what does the busybox prompt look like when initrd fails to boot?
08:44<praetorian>SpaceHobo: because
08:45<Jonaid>can anyone direct me towards a ubuntu security guide?
08:45-!-devcomp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:45<praetorian>SpaceHobo: :p
08:45<chesty>SpaceHobo: www is handy for CDNs
08:46<praetorian>imma close your uucp
08:46<fulcan>the linode pasteit sucks butt nuts.
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08:46<praetorian>its finnix
08:47<HoopyCat>Jonaid: is a decent start... a lot of it comes down to keeping things updated
08:47<fulcan>I am trying to reboot out of it??
08:47<fulcan>I have no clue what this trash is...
08:47<fulcan>reboot shou;ld fix it?
08:47<fulcan>it didn't???
08:47<marius>So oracle's DC has crashed
08:47<praetorian>you must have configured your disk to boot off it
08:47<HoopyCat>fulcan: from the linode dashboard, select your usual configuration profile and click "Boot"
08:47<bob2>yhbt hand hth
08:48<praetorian>bob2: 'yes'
08:48<marius>o, was down for 10 hours, my bad xD
08:48<jayvee>fulcan: think, if you left your finnix CD in your desktop PC's drive and rebooted, would you complain if it booted finnix a second time? :)
08:48<chesty>caker trolling us from the conference
08:48<fulcan>how do i kill finnix?
08:48<d-b>omg you killed finnix!
08:48<HoopyCat>fulcan: open a ticket
08:48<chesty>killall finnix
08:49<praetorian>damn finnie
08:49<jayvee>fulcan: you were told how to above by HoopyCat
08:49<fulcan>I don't have time for linode
08:49<fulcan>help kill/destroy finnix asap please?
08:49<HoopyCat>fulcan: and #linode doesn't have time for you. open a ticket.
08:49<bob2>fulcan: kudos sir
08:50<jayvee>well played
08:50-!-mathew [] has joined #linode
08:50<praetorian>jed should come back and help him about now
08:52<bob2>HoopyCat: holy shit
08:53<chesty>could i have a massage please?
08:53<pauly>I want one too...
08:53<fulcan>your ticket system is failing tooo.
08:54<bob2>fulcan: don't oversell it
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08:54<fulcan>says I need info in all 3 field. I have info in all three field. shoot the linode webmaster for me please!
08:54<d-b>no thanks
08:54<HoopyCat>fulcan: e-mail
08:54<chesty>fulcan: then you should pm the ops in this channel
08:55<@jed>fulcan: what's going on?
08:55<praetorian>HoopyCat: a bit of ye old eye dee ten tee
08:56<@jed>'the linode pasteit sucks butt nuts'
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08:56<praetorian>hes booted into finnix, and cant listen to fix it.
08:56-!-LittPi [] has joined #linode
08:56<praetorian>^ summary
08:56<jayvee>not our fault he can't (or won't) read
08:56<HoopyCat>praetorian: i'd recommend calling the office, except i'm not sure if they record phone calls for quality assurance and training purposes.
08:57<jayvee>speaking of calling the office, I got ISN calling working on my home phone
08:57<@jed>fulcan: you're trying to reboot into gentoo instead of finnix?
08:57<fulcan><praetorian> how do you get it out of fifuckix?
08:57<navi>gurl fubhyq erpbeq gur pnyyf sbe cbfgvat gb abbosnez
08:57<jayvee>(if someone wants to try calling me, I'm awake for the next hour on 23*1434)
08:57<praetorian>navi: agreed
08:57<@jed>fulcan: yes or no?
08:57<fulcan>reboot gentoo, yes!
08:57<HoopyCat>aniv: gung'f rknpgyl jung v jnf trggvat ng.
08:57<@jed>fulcan: click this:
08:57<bob2>jed: interstellar news network?
08:57<@jed>then click "Reboot"
08:57<@jed>near the middle left
08:58<bob2>navi: be nice
08:58<hawk>praetorian: I thought he was just trolling, you figure he genuinely cares to fix it?
08:58<jayvee>SpaceHobo: so? linode's ISN number evaluates to 0! ;-)
08:58<praetorian>hawk: if he is or not, jed can sort him out :p
08:59<fulcan>jed that is where I have been all morning
08:59<@jed>there you go!
08:59<@jed>okay, now wait for that shutdown job to finish, and gentoo will boot
08:59<fulcan>jed it says "gentoo image"
08:59<jayvee>yeah probably because jed changed it from finnix to gentoo for you
08:59<@jed>no, I didn't
09:00<jayvee>hah, even better
09:00<Deadpan110>jed, i love you... can ya add some funds to my account .... :P
09:00<jayvee>jed: do you know if anybody at all has ever called the Linode office via ISN?
09:00<jayvee>or is it there just for geek cred?
09:01<@jed>fulcan: do you block pings?
09:01-!-LittPi [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
09:01<@jed>oh look at that, you do
09:01<@jed>fulcan: your linode is still booting, give it some time
09:01<fulcan>jed was supposed to but that wasn't working in iptables last night
09:02-!-lunks_ [~lunks@] has joined #linode
09:02<@jed>yeah, I think you firewalled yourself out
09:02*navi yawns
09:02<@ericoc>if iptables isn't letting you SSH, you should still be able to use the console
09:02<+linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log in to the Linode Manager. LISH's primary function is to allow you to access your Linode's console, even if networking is disabled.
09:02<HoopyCat>good morning, ericoc!
09:02<HoopyCat>(i can tell you just got here)
09:02<praetorian>dont go there :P
09:02<fulcan>jed, very possible
09:02<+linbot>That's ericOC -> (sssh, he's a big fan)
09:02<jayvee>I locked myself out of a radio on a tower once
09:03<@ericoc>HoopyCat: i've been in the office since 4 :p i just started paying attention to #linode
09:03<jayvee>sadly, my boss was the one that drove up and rebooted it for me (I really should have been the one to do it)
09:03<@jed>fulcan: there you go
09:03<navi>I once locked myself in a chest of water as part of an escapology act.
09:03<HoopyCat>jayvee: "drove up"? not much of a problem if it can be fixed by driving
09:03<jayvee>then some kid punched you in the stomach
09:04<jayvee>HoopyCat: yup, could have been a lot worse
09:04<fulcan>jed nope, it doesn't take my password now?
09:04*navi is crying
09:04<chesty>fulcan: what's your password?
09:04<praetorian>i was once involved with a cave in, where sand filled the cavern i was in
09:04<jayvee>caps lock is turned off?
09:04<fulcan>I'm in
09:04<praetorian>lucky i could just /give myself a diamon pick
09:05<jayvee> /give tardis
09:05<navi> /give world peace to martians
09:05<navi>We don't deserve it
09:05<jayvee>1.9% of linode deployments are gentoo
09:05-!-CyL [] has joined #linode
09:05<navi>What percentage of the world population is insane, though?
09:05<jayvee>I think this falls into a 0.00001% corner case subcategory of that
09:06<praetorian>i was curious how many were Arch. but i think it's less than that
09:06<CyL>Morning folks... I have deployed a new Debian install, and after creating some disk images and attaching them to xvd* devices, they don't show up on the system... I must manually create the devices?
09:06-!-bbeausej [] has joined #linode
09:06-!-lunks [~lunks@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:06<bob2>CyL: dmesg | grep xv?
09:06-!-lunks_ is now known as lunks
09:06<navi>jayvee: If it affects 0.00001% of 1.9% of customers
09:06<HoopyCat>CyL: you'll need to mount them (or add them to /etc/fstab, so they'll auto-mount on boot)
09:07<jayvee>navi: that's what I was saying :)
09:07<jayvee>CyL: ls /dev/xvd*
09:07-!-A-KO [as@2001:470:1f07:115d:5ccb:7b0f:5f31:eb80] has joined #linode
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09:08<CyL>bob2, jayvee:
09:08<CyL>The devices don't exist
09:08<bob2>yeah they do
09:08<CyL>I also changes swap from vdb to vxdh and that worked like a charm
09:08<navi>jayvee: If it affects 0.00001% of 1.9% of the total population of the WORLD, that affects 357 people
09:08<bob2>you just haven't partitioned yet
09:08<bob2>so do that
09:08<bob2>then have a beer
09:09<navi>jayvee: I'm sure your numbers are /way/ off
09:09<jayvee>bob2: you're not supposed to partition linode disks
09:09<HoopyCat>or wait, it should automatically do it...
09:09<navi>Can anyone make a guess as to the number of custmers linode has?
09:09<HoopyCat>CyL: did you create them as "raw" or "ext3"?
09:09<jayvee>mkfs.ext4 /dev/xvde
09:09<CyL>HoopyCat: ext3
09:09<HoopyCat>navi: more than 400
09:09<bob2>navi: over 9000
09:09<CyL>I also don't think I should partition something the linode host front-end should do for me
09:09<navi>HoopyCat: No, I just need a number to show the percentages quoted above as silly
09:10<graq>A high proportion of management are psychopaths.
09:10<jayvee>CyL: the idea is that each disk is unpartitioned, which makes it easier to independently resize them
09:10<@ericoc>navi: our most recent blog post mentions a rough number
09:10<HoopyCat>CyL: yeah, i think you should be able to mount /dev/xvd<blah> /mnt/<blah> ... it might just be complaining
09:10<jayvee>so you can wake up one morning and think "ah, I'd like my /home bigger by 1 GB, and to reduce my /var by 2 GB"
09:11<jayvee>mind you, I have much different thoughts when I wake up in the morning
09:11<jayvee>more along the lines of "*%#@#% I hope it's saturday tomorrow"
09:11<HoopyCat>CyL: which distro/version is this, btw? newer ones should automagically create the /dev nodes
09:11<CyL>HoopyCat: Debian 6 32 bit
09:11<navi>With jayvee's math, for one person to be affected by this, linode would have to have 19,000,600 customers
09:12<HoopyCat>CyL: pretty sure that's got udev
09:12<marius>it's over 19000000!
09:12<jayvee>navi: what math?
09:12<jayvee>I just typed a large number of 0.000's
09:12<@ericoc>navi: - "Over the past 12 months we have grown to over 40,000 customers and..."
09:13<CyL>Well, in fact it now workes, it looks like it took sometime for the VPS to be aware of the new disks... the partitions are already mounted
09:13<navi>At 40000 customers, thats approximately 150 grams of one human
09:13<navi>(the percentage)
09:13<navi>So it only affects someone's big toe
09:13<graq>Not something to sneeze at.
09:13<HoopyCat>CyL: it does only pick up config profile changes on a reboot, so that might have been the impetus
09:13-!-AviMarcus [] has joined #linode
09:13<marius>Probably was my big toe that I woke up to bleeding
09:13<CyL>and I did not need to format them, they were already formatted by the scripts
09:14<chesty>does the 50,000th customer get a prize?
09:14<praetorian>chesty: they get a linode
09:14<CyL>HoopyCat: Well, I did a reboot before trying to mount them for the first time
09:14<praetorian>they have to pay for it
09:14<praetorian>but they get one.
09:14<HoopyCat>CyL: pick it up and shake it :-)
09:14<CyL>HoopyCat: is that a lish command for that?
09:15<chesty>shake it like a polaroid picture
09:15<CyL>HoopyCat: :)
09:15<@mikegrb>mmm cake
09:15<HoopyCat>CyL: 'cake'
09:15<navi>chesty: They get a linode in any data centre of their choice of the ones currently offered with availability
09:15<navi>chesty: Isn't that an amazing prize?
09:15<CyL>Is this for real ?!
09:15-!-warren [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:16<hawk>CyL: Is what?
09:16<@mikegrb>mmm cake
09:16<navi>Is cake real
09:16<@mikegrb>mmm cake
09:16<navi>or is cake a lie?
09:16<hawk>The cake is a lie!
09:16<nohh>mmm lies
09:16<HoopyCat>CyL: is this just fantasy? caught in a landslide, no escape from reality...
09:16*navi does extended guitar solo
09:16<HoopyCat>open your eyes, look up to the skies and seeeeeeeeeee
09:16<jayvee>HoopyCat: false cue
09:17<jayvee>it's "this is the real life", not "is this for real"
09:17-!-chmac [] has joined #linode
09:17<HoopyCat>jayvee: my ears are prone to worms
09:18<navi>My ears are home to worms
09:18<graq>Caught in a landslide. No escape from reality.
09:18<nohh>queen? or david goes to the dentist?
09:18<CyL>I believe people on this channel have been smoking some mushrooms
09:18<chesty><solo falsetto>
09:18<AviMarcus>HoopyCat, do you know what happens if I pass a non-possible USA caller ID (because it's a local number in another country) - so.. will mobile users get charged something ridiculous for picking up?
09:18<jayvee>I can think of at least one person that has
09:19<HoopyCat>AviMarcus: mobile users in the US don't pay extra for incoming calls (just normal airtime bucket minutes)
09:19<nohh>take that, ferreners
09:19<hawk>CyL: Do you have a better suggestion for what to smoke?
09:19<AviMarcus>oh it doesn't matter where from? cool
09:19<jayvee>HoopyCat: US mobile users pay for incoming calls!?
09:19*graq . o O ( why does everything come in buckets these days )
09:19<jayvee>what kind of backwards country do you live in?
09:20<AviMarcus>hey jayvee in Israel mobile incoming is free
09:20<HoopyCat>AviMarcus: the caller pays to get the call to the carrier's switch; the callee pays to get the call to their wireless-phone
09:20<AviMarcus>but it's 4c+ to call
09:20<AviMarcus>rather than .5c to call USA mobiles
09:20<HoopyCat>jayvee: the sort where the caller doesn't have to pay extra to call mobile phones(*)
09:21<HoopyCat>(*) well, at the wholesale level, they DO, but mostly because mobile phone carriers aren't RBOCs
09:21<jayvee>I guess it's not practical to charge extra to the caller, because there is no way to distinguish
09:21<jayvee>whereas in Australia, we have an entire area code dedicated to mobiles
09:21<d-b>you should always charge the caller
09:21-!-Plinker_ [] has joined #linode
09:21<jayvee>so NSW uses 02, Victoria uses 03, etc., and mobiles nationwide use 04
09:21<HoopyCat>trust me, the carriers can very well distinguish :-) the humans, however, cannot, especially with LNP
09:21<d-b>do you think it is fair that receiving a call is free?
09:21<jayvee>so if you see 04xx xxx xxx, you instantly know it will cost more
09:22<d-b>it costs someone!
09:22<praetorian>its a bit wrong that adelaide and perth use 08
09:22-!-CyL [] has left #linode []
09:22<jayvee>yeah it annoys me that they don't match the postcode
09:22<jayvee>whereas NSW and VIC do
09:22<jayvee>comply, westerners
09:23<bob2>d-b: I think being able to impose costs on a stranger ala the the US system is terrible
09:23<Nivex>the US system is terrible in many ways
09:23<straterra>Atleast we can carry guns though
09:23<Nivex>but as my mentor puts it: "it's the most bad the market will bear"
09:23<HoopyCat>i think the US-like mobile-user-pays arrangement works out for the better, in practice, because we usually end up with phone plans with a ludicrous quantity of minutes
09:23<d-b>bob2: of course it is. its part of their bs about getting everyone onto _their_ network(the telco's)
09:24<Nivex>yeah, the telcos are dinosaurs that are clinging to relevance. everything is IP(v6) now
09:24<HoopyCat>and the person with the cellphone IS getting some amount of convenience
09:25<bob2>~$AU80 gets you unlimited calling and sms in australia
09:25-!-jtric [] has joined #linode
09:25<amitz>convenience is arguable. convenience in able to get a call from telemarketers? ;-)
09:25<HoopyCat>that said, my cellphone has a SIP client registered to the home PBX, so i can kinda end-run around the whole thing
09:25<amitz>bob2: holy cow.
09:26<HoopyCat>amitz: there is also some amount of legislative prohibition on telemarketing to cellphones
09:26<praetorian>bob2: $59 gets me $500 or something worth of calls ill never get near
09:26<bob2>I can't even spend what $40 gets me
09:26<nohh>AU80? What's that in real dollars?
09:26<praetorian>us dollars?
09:26<praetorian>about $78
09:26<amitz>nohh: more than your dollar.
09:26<bob2>90 maybe?
09:26<Nivex>most people I converse with don't use voice anymore. they prefer to text/IM
09:27<praetorian>bob2: wrong way
09:27<jayvee>praetorian: I hate it when people say $x worth of calls
09:27<bob2>praetorian: eh no
09:27<jayvee>because who defines what a call is worth?
09:27<jayvee>oh yeah, the telco
09:27<praetorian>oh yeah. my mistake
09:27<bob2>praetorian: 80 Australian dollars = 83.86400 U.S. dollars
09:27<+linbot>New news from forums: Linux newbie...can I run a virtual machine on a linode vm? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
09:27<praetorian>tired me
09:27-!-fcoury [] has joined #linode
09:27<HoopyCat>i pay US$30/mo for 200 minutes (plus free evenings/weekends), plus US$30/mo for unlimited data and US$5/mo for 300 SMS
09:27<nohh>80 Australian dollars = 84.9440 US dollars according to the googles
09:28<praetorian>jayvee: yeah, but they cant say "xxx minutes" because it depends how many flag falls you pay
09:28<bob2>data's the trick here
09:28<jayvee>they should say "Republic credits"
09:28<bob2>unlimited data on any useful medium is unavailable
09:28<praetorian>you can get unlimited dialup
09:28<bob2>oh, true
09:28<bob2>from ozemail
09:28<bob2>for $40/moth
09:29<Nivex>I think he said "useful medium"
09:29<jayvee>dialup != useful medium
09:29<HoopyCat>jayvee: having been in the industry a bit, the reason phone calls cost a certain amount per minute is because phone calls cost a certain amount per minute. in other words, outside the base MRC, you're paying for them to bill you.
09:29<Nivex>dialup is not useful in the age of flash
09:29<bob2>HoopyCat: surely only if they leave the network
09:29<Nivex>hell, the homepage where I work weighs in at 300KB with all the images and CSS we sling
09:29<bob2>HoopyCat: within the network it's all paying off capital and operating costs right?
09:29<HoopyCat>bob2: technically, there is no "unlimited" here either, but i don't know where the limit is on this plan.
09:29<jayvee>HoopyCat: yeah when I receive a call, I'm sure it costs
09:29<jayvee>it's just not right that *I* pay the cost
09:30<praetorian>my phone data cap is 1gb
09:30<praetorian>or maybe 2..
09:30<bob2>I rarely hit my 700MB
09:30<bob2>with wifi at home and work
09:30<jkwood>Dialup is terribly useful in the days of senseless satellite internet daily caps.
09:30<jayvee>yeah I have 700MB mobile data
09:30<jayvee>most months I use between 20 and 50MB
09:30<HoopyCat>jayvee: i don't pay to receive a call, unless it's to my mobile phone, and then i just pay for the "convenience" of being able to be anywhere on god's green earth
09:30<amitz>in at least 1 provider, I get call credit if other provider calls me. Beat that ;-)
09:30<jayvee>HoopyCat: where god's green earth == USA
09:30<HoopyCat>bob2: the MRC could cover that, but people would squick at that :-)
09:31<jayvee>I see how it is now
09:31<hawk>HoopyCat: But it could just as well be the caller who paid to be able to reach you anywhere on god's green earth
09:31<praetorian> - im on the $59 yes social
09:31<bob2>HoopyCat: hah
09:31<hawk>HoopyCat: It's the caller who is the only one who is known to be interested in the call being made anyway
09:32<jayvee>the plan I'm on, they deprecated about a week after I signed up
09:32<jayvee>which reduced the data way down to 200MB
09:32<jayvee>but bumped up the included call credit
09:32<HoopyCat>jayvee: actually, pretty much any country with a CDMA network. which isn't many, but srsly, it's call-forward-to-google-voice territory:
09:33<praetorian>no google voice here
09:33<bob2>au internet business are almost always so lame
09:33<praetorian>i pay $10 a month to have a SIP line with DIN
09:33<praetorian>i dont use it tho..
09:33<bob2>I pay $15/3 years for a DIN ;p
09:34<jayvee>praetorian: I'll have it!
09:34<jayvee>you can keep paying though
09:34<praetorian>its always logged in
09:34<praetorian>the phone that was on it ... dided
09:34<HoopyCat>hawk: random people get the home number, people i want to talk to get the mobile number. with the advent of caller ID, it's pretty easy for the recipient's interest to converge during the signalling phase
09:35<HoopyCat>hawk: that said, i rarely -- if ever -- come close to hitting my bucket minute limit, so it's academic
09:35<jayvee>depressingly, caller ID costs $5.50 per month on most landlines here
09:35<AviMarcus>DIN? direct inward number?
09:36<praetorian>dial in number, but yeah
09:36<AviMarcus>I usually heard them called DIDs..
09:36<HoopyCat>i used 77 minutes last month, which is a personal record (due to travel)
09:36<chesty>praetorian: i pay $15/2 years for a sip din
09:37<praetorian>AviMarcus: either way :P
09:37<swaj>in the US, my phone costs $30/month and I get unlimited long distance, unlimited minutes, and about 15 extra features on my phone (caller ID, call waiting, call forwarding, call blocking, etc. etc.)
09:37<AviMarcus>praetorian, what country does it cost $10/DID?
09:37<jkwood>73 of those minutes was incoherently mumbling and drooling due to Really Good Painkillers.
09:37-!-linville [] has joined #linode
09:37<praetorian>chesty: i should account that the $10 a month is also for the service.. :P
09:37<praetorian>AviMarcus: .au
09:37<chesty>praetorian: same here
09:37<jayvee>swaj: wow, we pay $20 for our landline
09:38<jayvee>it includes no local or std calls
09:38<jayvee>so local calls are untimed, but charged on top of that
09:38<jayvee>std calls have a flagfall plus an exorbitant per minute charge
09:38<HoopyCat>for the record, we don't have a landline phone, but we do have two voip DIDs. (our plan is also not publicly available; hooray for retiree benefits)
09:38<jayvee>mobile calls are just ridiculous
09:39<swaj>yeah $30 and I can call anywhere in the US, canada, and puerto rico for as long as I want.
09:39<jayvee>HoopyCat: you are a retiree? ;)
09:39<HoopyCat>jayvee: jokingly, yes. :-)
09:39-!-imroot702 [] has joined #linode
09:39<jayvee>either that, or it rubs off on you :)
09:39<hawk>HoopyCat: Yes, I understand that you're saying that the flaws are mostly worked around by those measures... Doesn't really make the fundamental idea less flawed, though
09:39<swaj>HoopyCat = canadian I think. They do things backwards in Canada. You're retired early in life, and then you go to work :P
09:40<jayvee>eat dessert first
09:40<HoopyCat>jayvee: i built the voip network we're using, so it was mostly a "wait, you aren't just putting a backdoor in for yourself? you WANT to be billed?" discount
09:40<HoopyCat>swaj: alas, i am USian
09:40<swaj>aww, I thought you were a canuck :P
09:41<swaj>Don't you need a special phone though for SIP stuff? I mean I'd like to set up something like asterisk on my linode, but I'm clueless when it comes to that stuff.
09:42<praetorian>you can just softphone it if you have a headset with mic
09:42<HoopyCat>hawk: back in the old, old days, mobile telephones were huge car-mounted things used by the rich and important, so that's kinda how the payment model started... you could bill Dr. Bigpants a heck of a lot more than you could bill his patient, Mrs. Crabgina
09:42<HoopyCat>swaj: my wife is canadian :-)
09:42<praetorian>or you can get an ATA to convert an ordinary phone
09:42<AviMarcus>or.. a Linksys ATA and plug a normal phone in, swaj
09:42<AviMarcus>I run a VoIP biz off my linodes
09:42<swaj>praetorian: the WAF would be very bad with that setup :P
09:42<AviMarcus>freeswitch ftw
09:42<jayvee>HoopyCat: fraternising with the enemy, huh
09:42<jayvee>I see how it is
09:43<HoopyCat>swaj: ATAs work, but we went "native" last month... SIP phones all the way across the house
09:43<jayvee>don't think we don't just see right through you
09:43<jayvee>AviMarcus: I had a really bad experience with freeswitch
09:43-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
09:43<AviMarcus>yeah, I'm replacing my ATA with a droid. Hopefully.
09:43<AviMarcus>jayvee, how so?
09:43<jayvee>does it use up 15% of cpu in the background permanently?
09:43<swaj>HoopyCat: aren't SIP phones costly? and do they have decent cordless ones?
09:43<jayvee>it did for me -- out of the box, even
09:43<jayvee>AviMarcus: are you serious?
09:44<HoopyCat>jayvee: if you aren't having a really bad experience with a softswitch, you're not using it ;-)
09:44<jayvee>it still doesn't use 0% when idle!?
09:44<hawk>swaj: You need something that speaks SIP, be it a computer, some SIP-to-POTS gateway box + a good old phone, a cellphone that can run a SIP app, etc
09:44<jayvee>what the heck are they doing
09:44<AviMarcus>no, but then again, when I turn on siptrace, there's lots of stuff going on
09:44<praetorian>there are decent cordless sip phones (i believe the cisco one does sip)
09:44<praetorian>but its quite expensive
09:44<swaj>hawk: right. I'm just curious if there are decent SIP phones for home use. I don't want some classic work-style desk phone. I need something cordless.
09:44<AviMarcus>load average: 0.07, 0.03, 0.05
09:44<jayvee>not to mention the fact that configuration was a nightmare
09:45<AviMarcus>praetorian, I'm hoping droid + wifi will be good
09:45<HoopyCat>swaj: FSVO "costly"... i think my wife's cisco/linksys was $100. it's an investment. cordless SIP phones (aside from using a normal cordless phone with an ATA) are typically wifi-based affairs. SIP client on a droid works decently.
09:45<jayvee>I wanted to do something that was trivial in asterisk: have a couple of extensions on my local network, but be able to register in from a laptop on an external network
09:46<jayvee>someone told me I should be registering everything in the external profile to allow them to interoperate, which is rather bollocks if that's a good idea
09:46<hawk>swaj: There are cordless (eg DECT) phones that do SIP, but they are obviously more expensive than their POTS counterparts
09:46<HoopyCat>swaj: <--- my phone, an older polycom
09:46<jayvee>I had to rely on an undocumented hack (provided by a developer on irc) to get the internal and external extensions to be able to call each other
09:46<swaj>well right now I have a nice cordless phone system with 4 extension units. So all our phones are powered off a single jack in the back of my U-verse router. Maybe I should just buy an ATA and plug in the phone I already have.
09:46<swaj>because the amount we use our phone is very, very small.
09:47<swaj>and I'm thinking $30/month is pricey
09:47<jayvee>not to mention the fact that I could *not* get NAT working -- I could not stop freeswitch from ignoring the provided address in the SDP packet
09:47<hawk>swaj: That would quite likely be the cheapest approach
09:47<jayvee>and it would not use NAT-friendly UDP source ports
09:47-!-dajhorn [] has joined #linode
09:47<AviMarcus>jayvee, yeah, I have my Freeswitch on a linode and phones logging in from 4 external networks
09:47<jayvee>all in all, I spent a month attempting to get something working in freeswitch that took 30 minutes with asterisk
09:47<jayvee>and people wonder why I dis freeswitch
09:48<jayvee>the only two things I like about freeswitch are ipv6 and wideband audio
09:48<AviMarcus>Did you ask on the mailing list / #freeswitch ?
09:48<d-b>i think asterisk and freeswitch are silly - isn't there something better?
09:48<jayvee>I tried on irc, but not the mailing list
09:48<AviMarcus>d-b, have you used freeswitch..?
09:48<jayvee>on irc, they were very hostile and rude
09:48<AviMarcus>Odd. I'm generally there.
09:48<praetorian>HoopyCat: i have some of those metal shelves here.. god they are good
09:48<hawk>d-b: Silly in what sense?
09:48<jayvee>yeah I told another two freeswitch guys that
09:48<jayvee>they were really surprised too
09:48<d-b>AviMarcus: i haven't used freeswitch no
09:48<HoopyCat>d-b: there are various parts you can string together, but the choices tend to be either "a bunch of stuff, but you'll still need asterisk to do critical functions x, y, and z" or "$$$$$$$$$"
09:49<HoopyCat>praetorian: nodnod
09:49<d-b>HoopyCat: asterisk seems to have a fair amount of bugs
09:49<jayvee>asterisk is like the windows of the voip world
09:49<d-b>goto: fail
09:49<AviMarcus>one of the major devs on asterisk wanted to rewrite from scatch
09:50<jayvee>asterisk is the kitchen sink, which is why everybody does everything with it
09:50<d-b>AviMarcus: yeah i know the history of freeswitch
09:50<d-b>well that little much
09:50<AviMarcus>the other devs didn't want to, so he went and wrote freeswitch.
09:50<HoopyCat>d-b: we used OpenSER (which is now named something new) for primary stateless call-flinging, but at the end of the day, every single phone still had to register to something that was either asterisk or $$$$$$
09:50<d-b>HoopyCat: k
09:50<jayvee>AviMarcus: I'll stab that dev for picking XML as the config language
09:50<AviMarcus>lol the xml is awesome
09:51<HoopyCat>god damn, flashback
09:51<swaj>I wonder if you could write a SIP daemon in node.js :P
09:51<AviMarcus>sip daemon?
09:51<swaj>like freeswitch
09:51<AviMarcus>SIP is kinda crazy complicated
09:51<swaj>whatever it's called
09:51<praetorian>xml isnt easy edit friendly
09:51<HoopyCat>L*v*l3's DID ordering process was XML-based, but they didn't actually validate the XML using normal XML validation; they looked for byte offsets in the output produced by a magic set of Excel macros
09:51<AviMarcus>you can write a node.js script to interact with FS, and pull all events and then respond to stuff.
09:51<AviMarcus>HoopyCat, thats.. nuts.
09:52<HoopyCat>pissed me the hell off
09:52<HoopyCat>the only thing i needed windows for :-)
09:52<hawk>HoopyCat: Awesome
09:52*HoopyCat just rdesktop'd into his boss's PC to do it
09:52<AviMarcus>swaj, freeswitch has EVERYTHING creating / responding to "events" so you can write in any language that can interact with those
09:52<HoopyCat>and i also had to print off, sign, and fax ~8 pages
09:53<HoopyCat>and hope the person to whom the fax was sent to the attention of still worked there
09:53<HoopyCat>afk, need to shower
09:54<jayvee>is HoopyCat's nick intentionally homonymous with 'whooping cough'
09:54<AviMarcus>no, it's a joke on CoopyHat.
09:54<jayvee>just noticed this morning that I still have the same hoarse cough that I got at the end of february
09:54<jayvee>due to whooping cough
09:54<swaj>plivo looks cool. Like your own twilio on FOSS :P
09:55<jayvee>if you get whooping cough folks, stay out of civilisation for the next few weeks
09:55<AviMarcus>yeah, plivo for FS. I still don't quite understand what it does that FS doesn't do, though.
09:55<jayvee>to avoid permanently damaging someone else's throat
09:55<AviMarcus>swaj, I use FS + fusionpbx
09:55<swaj>AviMarcus: does FS have text-to-speech stuff and the ability to play mp3's, etc.?
09:56<AviMarcus>mp3s easily.
09:56<AviMarcus>text to speech - free ones are flite which is so-so. You can pay for cepstral or others, and there are mods to use it easily in FS
09:56<swaj>so plivo is putting an XML-based API on top of IVR functions
09:56<jayvee>praetorian: funny how irc pictures make the rounds
09:56-!-Hilleri [] has joined #linode
09:56<AviMarcus>eh? IVR is xml already.
09:57-!-maushu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:57<jayvee>praetorian: what nick/channel did you get that from?
09:57<swaj>AviMarcus: they made it compatible with twilio's API. They basically wanted to make Twilio open source I guess.
09:57<AviMarcus>swaj, or Lua. Lua is really cool.
09:57<AviMarcus>Well that's something, I guess. If you want to code that way.
09:57-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
09:58<jayvee>praetorian: just 30 mins ago I saw it in #internode on gamesurge
09:58<swaj>Twilio is an IVR that can do HTTP POST to your systems based on user response, then your app can respond with details that it will text-to-speech back to the user.
09:58-!-Plinker_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:58<swaj>and it seems plivo is just a FOSS project that aims to be compatible with Twilio's API.
09:59-!-jtric [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
09:59<jayvee>what I want is people to stop creating gigantic IVR systems
09:59<@jed>twilio is awesome
09:59<jayvee>and just buy a DID block instead
10:00<AviMarcus>jayvee, press 1 for sales? I have a direct number to the ONE sales person available?
10:00-!-Kebn [] has joined #linode
10:01<AviMarcus>many biz's do have a direct number + main number for all employees
10:01<AviMarcus>with DIDs at ~$1 and then paying for channels, it's cheap enough to do that
10:01<AviMarcus>flowroute gives a batch of 20 DIDs for $15/mo.
10:01<jayvee>AviMarcus: it's more about being able to view an outline of the system before you dial
10:01<AviMarcus>SpaceHobo, 6?
10:01-!-pigdude [] has joined #linode
10:01<swaj>yeah our company does that. everyone has a DID and an extension. but the DID = XXX-XXX-<4-digit extension>
10:02<jayvee>yeah I have that at work
10:02<AviMarcus>hmm extension matches number sounds cool.
10:02<jayvee>yep, we have a block of 100 numbers, where the last two digits map to extension number
10:02<jayvee>from 00-99
10:03*AviMarcus needs food. afk.
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10:07<swaj>could I run a fax machine through an ATA?
10:07<jayvee>in theory yes
10:07<jayvee>in practice, *cringe*
10:07<AviMarcus>sounds right jayvee :)
10:07<jayvee>T.38 is a passthrough kinda protocol, which a few ATAs support
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10:07<jayvee>I have a customer that runs fax through PCMA audio
10:08<swaj>I was looking at the Linksys SPA2100
10:08<jayvee>and he wonders why it's so unreliable
10:08<AviMarcus>I've got a stack of them. but I've never used for fax.
10:08<jayvee>sleeping time for me
10:09<hawk>Well, it can work... I suppose you may want to turn the speed down for higher chance of success
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10:13<CyL>Okay, since this is a VPS, does it make any sense to disable normal root login (talking about the console, not ssh or any other remote protocols)?
10:14-!-userme [] has joined #linode
10:14<chesty>don't disable console login, lish needs that
10:14<jayvee>CyL: don't disable root on console -- it may save your butt one day
10:15<jayvee>even if you normally use a user + sudo
10:15<jayvee>but disabling it on ssh is a good idea
10:15<CyL>chesty, jayvee: thanks for teh advice
10:15<jayvee>by disabling root on console, the only people you are locking out are yourself and a hypothetical evil linode server admin
10:15<jayvee>but said evil linode server admin also has access to your filesystem, so can get it anyways
10:16<auraka>jayvee: have you talked to some of the linode isn't hypothetical
10:16<@jed>we have no evil linode server admins
10:16*caker reads your email
10:16<jayvee>auraka: they are bound by privacy laws
10:16*auraka looks cautiously at caker
10:16<jayvee>so if you see a violation, take it up with them
10:17<auraka>jayvee: more of a joke that some of them are evil...not that they would break into your server :-)
10:17<AviMarcus>auraka, shut up and hide in a corner. Out of sight = out of mind, and they won't be tempted ;)
10:17<@jed>auraka: that's better
10:17<jayvee>right :)
10:17<jayvee>I was worried on linode's behalf there
10:17-!-tiny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:18<auraka>for some reason my linode keeps getting renamed thecakeisthetruth
10:18*auraka shrugs
10:18<chesty>SpaceHobo: thanks, but why?
10:19<chesty>I'm not an animal
10:20<d-b>yes you are
10:20<d-b>unless you are an alien
10:20<d-b>are you an alien?
10:21<@mikegrb>mmm cake
10:21<jayvee>auraka: the cake is a lie
10:21<nohh>nanu nanu
10:21<jayvee>it's so delicious and moist
10:21<+linbot>THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!
10:21<chesty>go potter
10:22<auraka>I hate that saying so much
10:22<AviMarcus>Nivex, good catch.
10:22<@mikegrb>mmm cake
10:22<@Perihelion>The cake is a lie.
10:22<Nivex>This was a triumph!
10:24<praetorian>Tim was a lie
10:29-!-BaldwinKoo [] has joined #linode
10:29<+linbot>New news from forums: I feel blown in Customer Testimonials <>
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10:31-!-jxpx777 [~jxpx777@] has quit [Quit: Be back later]
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10:33*KingTarquin doesn't see the extra to be blown.. :(
10:34<chesty>i wish my car was blown
10:34<@jed>urmom is blown
10:34<+linbot>New news from forums: Hosted Desktops in General Discussion <> || Multiple domains, multiple vhosts, different sites in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
10:35<nohh>maybe for Linode's 9th birthday, KingTarquin
10:35-!-jxpx777 [~jxpx777@] has quit []
10:36<auraka>KingTarquin: use coupon code: jed
10:36<navi>auraka: Oh, cool, you get to choose the blower?
10:38<auraka>navi: no.....
10:38<auraka>checkpoint....why do you make me hate you
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10:41<skegeek>Is the 'environment' of my server refer to what software I've installed?
10:44<nohh>probably not
10:45<navi>can you use the word in context?
10:48<chesty>unix processes have an environment
10:50<+linbot>New news from forums: I feel blown away in Customer Testimonials <> || looking for someone who knows the API in General Discussion <>
10:50<straterra>Can you give me a definition, pleasE?
10:53<skegeek>Well, I've prevously asked various people if my server can handle running this or that, the response is always something like 'without knowing your environment and what you're already running, it is hard to say'.
10:55-!-lrojas [] has joined #linode
10:55<lrojas>hi all
10:55<JshWright>skegeek: what they mean is... they'd need to know how well your app performs and how much traffic it's going to see at peak times
10:55<bigjocker>is there a way to configure and email alert in case the backups fail?
10:56<skegeek>For one thing, I'm not sure I need (vs)ftp because I usually use an SCP client for file-transfer. And, mail, mailx, postfix were all installed as dependencies of other packages...don't think I need all of them either.
10:56<nohh>environment, n. - The setting or conditions in which a particular activity is carried on
10:57<JshWright>skegeek: having those packages installed won't impact the performance of your app at all
10:57-!-LittPi [] has joined #linode
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10:57<JshWright>bigjocker: that would have to be something Linode did, since it's not exposed via the API, there's no way for us to do it from the "outside"
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10:58<lrojas>i am trying to setup cherokee on my linode, and following the instructions, i launched the cherokee-admin & and then created a tunnel with ssh -L 9090:localhost:9090 root@xx.xx.xx.xx -N
10:58-!-JediMaster [] has joined #linode
10:58<lrojas>when i try to access the admin site it keeps asking me for authentication
10:58-!-Jesta [] has joined #linode
10:58<lrojas>any idea on what is it i am missing?
10:59<KingTarquin>lrojas: When you run cherokee-admin, it gives you a one-time password while the process is running.
10:59-!-LittPi [] has joined #linode
11:00<KingTarquin> @ lrojas
11:00-!-Kuboing [~Administr@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:00<lrojas>that's what i was missing
11:04-!-LittPi [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
11:05<+linbot>New news from forums: Rails Setup in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
11:05-!-lrojas [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:06<skegeek>JshWright: The software I'm running is nGinx and PHP5(-FPM), two live and two test/dev (wordpress) sites and a single vTiger instance as virtual hosts.
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11:10<JshWright>skegeek: ok... that's still nowhere near enough information to guess what size node you would need
11:10<+linbot>New news from forums: Who's a good domain registrar? in General Discussion <>
11:10<JshWright>how much traffic do you expect to see?
11:10<skegeek>That I have never really been able to predict
11:11<JshWright>that's like asking how many buckets you'll need to move all the water
11:11<JshWright>you've told me all about the type of bucket you'll be using... but nothing about how much water is "all of it"
11:11<skegeek>The wordpress sites are my company and a news comments/opinion site which isn't launched yet.
11:13<skegeek>I guess the real problem there is not really knowing how to predict the site traffic.
11:14<JshWright>resizing is easily done via the control panel, so I'd start small and expand as needed
11:14-!-JediMaster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:14<JshWright>be sure to run some sort of caching plugin for wordpress
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11:16<skegeek>Nah because things change rather randomly and can be quickly, caching would become an annoyance at this point.
11:18<skegeek>I'm not really thinking about bandwidth though, it's more about memory usage of various packages.
11:19-!-LittPi [] has joined #linode
11:19<skegeek>I've been trying to get a good idea of how many things a 512 could be used for at the same time.
11:19*Daevien predicts either zero traffic. or so much that the non cached wordpress eats the vps for breakfast
11:21<skegeek>Oh I'll use caching when the site goes live, but until then caching would get in the way.
11:21-!-Kebn [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
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11:26<Guest316>I can't find in the documentation where it says what level of linode I have to have to be able to add an extra IP
11:27<+linbot>Available extras: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP addresses: $ 1 per address/month. To add extras, visit the Extras tab on a Linode.
11:27<jtsage>any linode, but you'll need justification these days i believe
11:27<bliblok_>You can have 1 extra IP per linode, more if you have justification.
11:27<bliblok_>At least that was the case when i ordered.
11:27<Nivex>or you can have 4096 IPv6 addresses
11:27<Guest316>Ya, that was was the case when I ordered too
11:27<hawk>bliblok_: I thought you needed technical justification from the first extra ip these days
11:27<Guest316>but it says i'm at my limit with just 1
11:28<bliblok_>Guest316: OK, then hawk is probably correct.
11:28<hawk>Guest316: If there is a technical reason why you need more, it should not be a problem
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11:35<skegeek>Where do we find ram usage?
11:35<AviMarcus>"free -m" ?
11:35<skegeek>Oh, we can't do that using the Manager can we?
11:35<AviMarcus>not afaik
11:35<AviMarcus>you can't find out disk usage, either from manager
11:36<AviMarcus>other than raw alloted space
11:36<tjfontaine>as far as the manager is concerned you're allocated 100% of your memory usage (unless you changed your config for reason you don't care about)
11:36<+linbot>New news from forums: IPSEC/L2TP questions in Linux Networking <>
11:36<skegeek>Oof, I'm actually using 80-90% of RAM...
11:37<hawk>tjfontaine: It did?! Oh noes
11:37<tjfontaine>hawk: iow DON'T PANIC
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11:40<skegeek>I guess I have 175 free out of 497
11:42<skegeek>Anyone using Piwik by chance?
11:42-!-sivy [] has joined #linode
11:45<AviMarcus>Cool. Google changed picasa - photos upto 2048 x 2048 won't count towards the storage anymore.
11:45-!-nicinabox [] has joined #linode
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11:50<skegeek>Of course, they have so much money they could offer their PPC for free and not care.
11:53-!-sivy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:53<LittPi>It seems that Google is doing better?
11:54<hawk>Better than what?
11:54-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
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11:54<LittPi>better than other companies
11:56<avenj>well, probably better than, say, the pizza joint downtown
11:57<skegeek>THey have so much media partnered to sell ads through their service, it'd be hard for them to lose business.
11:57<@ericoc>mmm pizza
11:57<avenj>ericoc: it's not that good, try google instead
11:57<@ericoc>what should i have for lunch :(
11:57<@mikegrb>mmm cake
11:57<Nivex>is ericoc going to become the pizza bot as mikegrb is the cake bot?
11:58<avenj>ericoc: is this one of those weird situations where you answer the question before you ask it?
11:58<@ericoc>i don't really want pizza tbh
11:59<nohh>chinese food, obviously
12:00<JshWright>skegeek: just because things change doesn't mean caching isn't worth it
12:01<JshWright>a fairly low-volume wordpress site will struggle on a 512 without some caching, but wordpress + a caching plugin can handle a ton of traffic on a 512
12:01<mdcollins>Cache pictures and css.
12:01<JshWright>that's worthwhile too, but that's not the sort of caching I was talking about
12:02<hawk>Indeed, the static content is probably not the real killer
12:02<mdcollins>Yeah, on wp cache the output too.
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12:07<skegeek>As long as the cache is updated when I make a change. I have to go. Thanks for the advice and info.
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12:15<JediMaster>think I've actually got teh client onboard for this shiny 5 server setup =)
12:15-!-imroot702 [] has joined #linode
12:15<JediMaster>better bloody be with the week of work it's taken to work out the configuration =)
12:15<AviMarcus>you did that w/o knowing if he'd sign? :x
12:16<JediMaster>we had a good idea he would
12:16-!-cps [] has joined #linode
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12:16<JediMaster>but it's a service we want to offer others
12:16<JediMaster>so had to make sure we could set it up and get some decent benchmarks out of it
12:16<JediMaster>which we got
12:16<JediMaster>it's about 2.5X faster than their current dual dedicated servers with rackspace =)
12:17<JediMaster>and the same price to him
12:17<JediMaster>and redundant, which his isn't
12:18*JediMaster cheers for linode value
12:18*JediMaster pokes caker and jed into offering SSD "disk" space
12:18<JediMaster>would be nice for database servers =)
12:20<jkwood>A database server is precisely the kind of thing you DON'T want to run off an SSD.
12:20-!-sivy [] has joined #linode
12:20<JediMaster>jkwood: why not? surely the high IO and throughput of the SSD is perfect?
12:20<JshWright>RAM is still cheap enough
12:21<jkwood>The high degree of wear due to heat is not.
12:21*JediMaster glances at the 20CM case fan blowing over his SSD raid set
12:22<JediMaster>ok, they do need a bit of cooling, but still more reliable than standard hard disks
12:22<jkwood>More reliable?
12:23<JediMaster>MTBF etc
12:23<pharaun>not really
12:24<hawk>What kind of life span do the SLC drives have anyway?
12:24<nicinabox>JediMaster: SSD only has limited writes. You'd be burning drives like no tomorrow
12:24<pharaun>looking at the numbers, its roughly same, some case they're worse iirc
12:24<pharaun>(failure rate i mean)
12:24<JediMaster>really? despite the 1-2 million hour MTBFs?
12:24<pharaun>SLC i think is higher life span than the MLC but :\ those are m much more expensive
12:25<pharaun>JediMaster: same thing with harddrives they still fail
12:25-!-john [] has joined #linode
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12:25<pharaun>go look up the failure rates of SSD and compare to hdd, in some cases it a bit better, some its worse
12:25<jkwood>There's also the fact that when an SSD fails, it's sudden and spectacular. That almost never happens with mechanical, and when it does it's almost always an easily replacable board, not the platters.
12:25<JediMaster>I have to admit all the drives I've used recently have been very reliable, I do like my WD disks, not had anything fail in years, and only been using SSDs for just under 2 years, so not a great comparison
12:25<john>hello everyone, i was wondering if someone can help me get my .htaccess to work
12:25-!-daemonic [] has joined #linode
12:25<pharaun>john: apache?
12:26<pharaun>well what's the problem?
12:26<hawk>pharaun: Sure, but I assume it's SLC we're talking about? Those are the only ones I ever see in a servery/storagey context
12:26<john>i have a ,htaccess redirect but its not working
12:26<pharaun>hawk: HIGH END server, regular consumer/prosumers for most part were mlc afaik
12:26<john>i have it set up on my shared hosting and it works
12:27<john>but now on my centOS its not working
12:27<john>bare with me as I am very new to this
12:28-!-kenichi [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:28<JshWright>I'll not be baring anything with you...
12:29<pharaun>aaron bar!
12:29<john>can anyone help me?
12:30-!-freshmilk [~work@] has quit [Quit: freshmilk]
12:30<pharaun>there's many things that could have changed between the shared hosting and your vps
12:31<john>i just don't know how to get my .htaccess read
12:31<john>my wordpress rewrites aren't working either
12:31<pharaun>so to start, um i think you need to enable htaccess in apache (?) check that, then what kind of error is happening, is it just not being read at all? etc
12:31<DephNet[Paul]>john, do you have "EnableOverride All" set in your httpd.conf file?
12:32<john>to enable that i do this? LoadModule rewrite_module modules/
12:32<john>where should enableoverride all be located?
12:32<DephNet[Paul]>um, what OS?
12:32<john>CentOS 5
12:32<DephNet[Paul]>/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf <-- somewhere in there
12:33<john>i have that file open
12:33-!-LittPi [] has joined #linode
12:33<DephNet[Paul]>ok, in nano or vi?
12:33<john>in textmate
12:33<DephNet[Paul]>is there a "find word" option in that?
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12:34<DephNet[Paul]>if there is, use it to find AllowOverride
12:34<john>its AllowOverride All
12:34<DephNet[Paul]>ok, then your .htaccess files are being read
12:34<john>under directory /var/www/html
12:34<pharaun>pastie your .htaccess ?
12:35<+linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
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12:36<DephNet[Paul]>ahh, do you serve your site from a different location to /var/www/html john?
12:36<JediMaster>anyone know if the backup service works on raw disks?
12:36<john>its on srv/www/
12:36<DephNet[Paul]>if you do, change the Directory tag to "/path/to/your/html"
12:36<pharaun>JediMaster: no afaik, only on a couple of FS
12:37<JediMaster>pharaun: meh
12:37<john>why does linode set me up differently
12:37<pharaun>again this is afaik, would have to ask the staff for 100% confirmation but its file based backup i believe
12:37<john>i just pasted in that
12:37<JediMaster>in which case I may just setup half the space as DRBD/GFS2 and the other half as ext3 and rsync it over periodically to get teh backups
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12:38<DephNet[Paul]>john, it is not Linode that sets you up different, it is cPanel that sets you up differently :P
12:38<john>oh okay
12:38<DephNet[Paul]>dont be
12:38<john>well i have many domains and i have a vhost.conf
12:38<john>do i do anything in there?
12:39<DephNet[Paul]>you can put a directory tag in there, with AllowOverride All in it
12:39<+linbot>New news from forums: [RUBY] Sync cPanel DNS zones with Linode DNS in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
12:39<john>i have 500 internal server error now
12:39<pharaun>JediMaster: what about backing up to s3? or your own backup solution
12:39<DephNet[Paul]>and turn off the one in httpd.conf
12:40<DephNet[Paul]>john, thats good, in that the .htaccess is being read now
12:40<DephNet[Paul]>if you rename the .htaccess to someting else, does the 500 go away?
12:41<pharaun>looks like its .htaccess then :>
12:41<pharaun>john: btw linky to your pastie? :p
12:41<DephNet[Paul]>as pharaun said, its something in your .htaccess
12:41<john>thank you so much
12:41<john>ahh its working
12:42<john>i just hope my server is still secured
12:42<DephNet[Paul]>john, no problems, we have all been there
12:43<john>btw, i don't have cpanel
12:43<john>i'm trying to manage everything with centos 5
12:43<john>its been great learning this
12:43<john>its awesome
12:43<DephNet[Paul]>if you have AllowOverride in your vhost, you can change the one in httpd.conf to "none"
12:43<john>in my vhost
12:43<john>where do i out allowoverride?
12:44<DephNet[Paul]>the one further up the page
12:44<DephNet[Paul]>in the /var/blah directory
12:44<john>I have NameViertualHost *:80
12:44<DephNet[Paul]>thats fine, anyway gotta go
12:45<john>and a bunch of other domains with the virtualhost tags
12:45<john>oh okay
12:45<john>thanks dephnet[paul]
12:47<john>thanks pharaun
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12:55<+linbot>New news from forums: Multiple domains, multiple vhosts, different sites in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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13:34<HoopyCat>anyone here familiar with drupal, and perhaps aegir? i have a client's site *almost* working ok, as part of a move from $OverpricedSharedHosting to an aegir'd server, but there are a couple oddities. i'm also swamped and want to find someone to git 'r done
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13:38<rnowak>you forgot to ask if they are awake or in the mood to help
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13:42<Tobarja>is there a pingable name for atlanta115?
13:43<HoopyCat>rnowak: if i were looking to go down the normal troubleshooting path, my question would suck. alas, mostly just looking for another #linoder that's better with this stuff than i am, and able to get the little blinky lights to blink properly in exchange for a long, random transaction ID that represents little green pieces of paper :-)
13:43<rnowak>HoopyCat: just kidding :p
13:43<Tobarja>ok... my box disappeared for about 1 min, but it's now pinging again
13:43-!-rkitover [] has joined #linode
13:43<rkitover>is there an outage somewhere? I can't ping my linode
13:43<rnowak>might be those pesky solar flares
13:43<pharaun>HoopyCat: maybe hedgemage, she does drupal work i think, not sure if she's on
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13:44<retro|blah>rkitover: We usually ask people to do an mtr trace
13:44<+linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
13:44<+linbot>Tobarja: (mtratlanta <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "web title$1".
13:45<+linbot>rnowak: [mtr] 12 hops, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms, ???: 100.0%/0.0ms, 20.0%/0.9ms, 20.0%/89.3ms (urmom)
13:45<HoopyCat>rkitover: short answer: yes; the internet is always broken somewhere. alas, there's thousands of linode servers in nearly a half-dozen locations with dozens of upstream connections to the internet...
13:45<rnowak>(you need to mtr from one of the locations, to a host)
13:45<rkitover>yeah I see stars after a comcast router on traceroute, never mind, sorry
13:45<HoopyCat>atlanta115 looks ok from here, for what it's worth. (but i'm not on comcast :-)
13:46<retro|blah>Good ol' Comcast
13:46<HoopyCat>pharaun: ah yes
13:46<Tobarja>it's back now, was curious if i prodded at that command would it show me historical data
13:47<HoopyCat>Tobarja: nope
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14:07<+linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
14:08<+linbot>JshWright: Point (0.61513032, 0.50099364) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 91051 of 115649 (π ≈ 3.149218756755355 - 0.007626103165562). http://π
14:08<+linbot>navi: 100 digits of pi starting at position 2101: 0349625245174939965143142980919065925093722169646151570985838741059788595977297549893016175392846813
14:08<+linbot>JshWright: Now 0% full (about 16 hours remaining). Last emptied 43 minutes ago, last full 1 hour ago after running for 16.0 hours.
14:09<navi>I prefer the look of !supa1337 [d]
14:09<+linbot>swaj: (supa1337 <text>) -- Replies with an especially k-rad translation of <text>.
14:10<navi>!supa1337 [d]
14:10<+linbot>navi: |\|o\/\/ 0% f|_|11 (/-\|>o|_|+ 16 |-|o|_||2z |23/\/\/-\;|\|;|\|g). |_/-\$+ 3/\/\p+;3<| 45 /\/\;|\||_|+3z /-\go, 1/-\$+ f|_|11 1 |-|o|_||2 /-\go /-\f+3|2 |2|_||\||\|;|\|g fo|2 16.0 |-|o|_||2z.
14:11<pronto>*brain explodes*
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14:30<Obsidian|server>There's a sniper around here.
14:31<tjfontaine>BEHIND Y*BANG*
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14:41<Daevien>Obsidian|server: thats why caker took up flying, so he could get around job to job faster & cheaper
14:41<@jed>did someone say candl
14:41*Obsidian|server watches as jed gets dragged off
14:41*Obsidian|server waves
14:44<+linbot>swaj: Point (0.27121697, 0.26739669) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 91052 of 115650 (π ≈ 3.149226113272806 - 0.007633459683013). http://π
14:44<swaj>that url doesn't work :P
14:44<hawk>sure it does
14:44<swaj>not in firefox :)
14:44<pharaun>sure it does
14:44<HoopyCat>works for me
14:45<pharaun>ipv6 sir :p
14:45<swaj>I have the little utf-8 symbol in my address bar :P
14:45<+linbot>hawk: 2600:3c03::13:3142
14:45<swaj>booo I don't have ipv6 at work :(
14:45<@jed>>>> d("3.149226113272806") - d("0.007633459683013")
14:45<@jed>it's ... in the neighborhood
14:45<pharaun>ipv6 tunnel :>
14:45<pharaun>jed: hehe yeah
14:45<pharaun>its finally starting to get close :>
14:46<swaj>I bet hoopy ab'ed it a few times :P
14:46<@jed>actually, it's dead on atm, no?
14:46<@jed>to that precision
14:47<pharaun>earlier it was gong upward to 3.15 >:(
14:47<HoopyCat>0.007633459683013 is the difference between what it thinks pi is and what pi "really" is
14:47<@jed>oh, I see now
14:47<@jed>I thought it knew that pi was the difference of the two
14:47<pharaun>HoopyCat: do you have any "error margin" ?
14:48<HoopyCat>it currently thinks pi is 4*91052/115650
14:48<HoopyCat>pharaun: nope, but i have a lot of erasers
14:48<+linbot>swaj: Point (0.10116325, 0.12347714) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 91054 of 115653 (π ≈ 3.149213595842737 - 0.007620942252943). http://π
14:48<pharaun>HoopyCat: hah :> but what i mean is after X iteration of that, its usually accurate to Y decimal place, so that's what i was wondering
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14:52<HoopyCat>pharaun: pfft, no idea.
14:52<HoopyCat>pharaun: it's always been somewhere between 2 and 4, if that's what you're asking
14:53<mdcollins>Is PHP considered middleware?
14:54<swaj>I wouldn't consider it middleware
14:54<swaj>PHP is a programming language, just like Ruby or Python.
14:54<swaj>you could write middleware with it
14:54<mdcollins>Me too.. But my local college considers PHP and ASP a "middleware scripting environment"
14:54<A-KO>they fail
14:55<A-KO>then again, that's like "Cloud"
14:55<A-KO>web 2.0
14:55<A-KO>etc etc
14:55<mdcollins>I wasn't planning on taking anything web related with them, but noted that was against what I thought.
14:55<swaj>wtf is a "middleware scripting environment" ? -- are they talk about Rack?
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14:56<mdcollins> <- check out the last class "CISW 410"
14:57<swaj>that whole class appears to be fail.
14:57<@jed>that's 400 level?
14:57*mdcollins wouldn't touch that class with a ten foot pole
14:57<mdcollins>jed, guess so.
14:58<swaj>I could "almost" give them credit if they used Python + WSGI or Ruby + Rack, but even that is a stretch.
14:58<pharaun>HoopyCat: hah pfft back :)
14:58<@jed>300 level CSS!
14:58<swaj>middleware scripting environment is such a bogus term
14:58<mdcollins>I was thinking C/C+ with them.
14:58<swaj>CISW 321 Web Site Development using Dreamweaver
14:58*swaj barfs
14:58<@jed>400 level in compsci is like, genetic algorithms, isn't it
14:59<A-KO>The very fact that they are not including PHP/ASP.NET/etc as part of their core web development program to me seems like fail.
14:59-!-zack__ [~zack@] has joined #linode
14:59<A-KO>You *cannot* build a modern website without knowing how to do dynamic content with server-side programming
14:59<mdcollins>"CISP 360 Introduction to Structured Programming 4 Units" Covers C/C++
14:59<A-KO>I mean shit it's not 1995 anymore
14:59<avenj>A-KO: dreamweaver and flash!
14:59<@jed>lol, ASP is higher-level than C++
14:59<@jed>that's hilarious
14:59<A-KO>lol avenj
14:59<swaj>"Beginning Flash" is a 300-level course :P
14:59<hawk>swaj: "This course can be taken for credit a total of 4 times on different platforms or software versions" for the dreamweaver thing... that's just.......
15:00<mdcollins>I think the numbers are made up.
15:00<HoopyCat>so where's the useful stuff, like python? :-)
15:00*mdcollins imagines a dart board with numbers taped to it
15:00<A-KO>I'm really sad at the state of modern universities
15:00<A-KO>if you want to call these places that
15:00<swaj>dude... The "Advanced Web Publishing" course uses CGI + Perl to generate dynamic HTML
15:01<mdcollins>HoopyCat, pretty sure they don't touch anything outside of c/c++, php/asp and shell scripting..
15:01<mdcollins>oy, nevermind.
15:01<A-KO>I'd sit in the class and sql inject the teacher's website.....
15:01<HoopyCat>C++ is somewhat useful, i suppose
15:01<A-KO>for kicks
15:01<A-KO>even then, these classes are already behind.
15:01<mdcollins>I'd have to do it, if they offered node.js or something cool like that.
15:01<swaj>these classes were behind 5 years ago
15:01<@jed>6.849 Geometric Folding Algorithms: Linkages, Origami, Polyhedra
15:02*jed wishes he could go to MIT
15:02<HoopyCat>then again, this appears to be some sort of web design program from some community college... universities tend to be a little bit more on top of these things
15:02<A-KO>HoopyCat: sometimes
15:02<mdcollins>Yeah, community college.
15:02<HoopyCat>(because they generally don't have web design programs)
15:02<swaj>HoopyCat: yeah, at universities they teach.... JAVA! :P
15:02<A-KO>I should dig up the courses for the local university
15:02<A-KO>actually, I should anyway
15:02<A-KO>I do want to go back
15:02<swaj>at least java is somewhat useful, though.
15:03<swaj>even though I troll about it frequently
15:03<A-KO>it is useful, sadly.
15:03<A-KO>but I still despise its usage
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15:04<swaj>that's interesting that they have a software engineering degree
15:05<swaj>because most that I've seen are just CompSci
15:05<pharaun>oh god i hate that degree
15:05<A-KO>at least the locla university has done a good job with their IS degree
15:05<pharaun>i have a software engineering degree from RIT
15:05<pharaun>they're so rigid with that fucking flow chart
15:05-!-duckydan [] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
15:05<HoopyCat>it sucks less than a web design certificiate :-)
15:05<pharaun>i wanted to take several more CS courses like os, system programming/etc they banned me from doing that
15:06<A-KO>meh, nm
15:06<pharaun>and you come out way weaker with CS theory stuff :\
15:06<A-KO>they still expect calculus for information systems degrees
15:06<@jed>HoopyCat: that BS SEng?
15:06<A-KO>such useless
15:06<pharaun>jed: yes
15:06<HoopyCat>jed: nod
15:06<@jed>not bad
15:06<pharaun>jed: they are really rigid tho
15:06<swaj>that curriculum doesn't look too bad to me
15:06<pharaun>if you don't follow that flow chart exactly they scream at you
15:06<HoopyCat>A-KO: you either get calculus, or you're missing the boat
15:06<pharaun>(deaf, so i had to mix things up lots for interpreter support)
15:06<HoopyCat>A-KO: it's all calculus, all the way down
15:07<@jed>calculus is actually fun
15:07<swaj>I've never taken it
15:07<A-KO>•IS 147
15:07<A-KO> Introduction to Computer Programming
15:07<HoopyCat>A-KO: liberal arts and calculus are the two things that separate real degrees from hokey-pokey fake poop
15:08<@jed>if you can get through calc 2 the rest is better
15:08<pharaun>my problem with SE bachelor is .... it leaves you kind of weak on core CS theory/etc... i've been reading books and etc to fix up on that, but in general they
15:08<@jed>calc 2 was hell for me
15:08<pharaun>are mostly about "team work", project work, um management stuff
15:08<pharaun>ton of management bs like all of the different workflow like agile, waterfall, etc...
15:08<pigdude>why would somebody go to college for that shit
15:09<A-KO>pigdude: it makes money
15:09<pharaun>I would had personally preferred to do more deep in theory :\
15:09<A-KO>managers love that shit
15:09<pigdude>i have a HS diploma and i've easily made a career in it
15:09<pharaun>pigdude: my university was free for me
15:09<pigdude>you don't need a college degree, just another way of watering down college education
15:09<pigdude>go to school for something academic ...
15:09<A-KO>The sad thing is, I kind of want a BS/MS in Information Systems/Security for the sole purpose of having it. Unfortunately, the cost is highly prohibitive.
15:09<Daevien>if you don't have a degreee of some kind, you are pretty much fucked these days. s people take whatever interests them / they think they can skate through
15:09<pharaun>this ^
15:09<pigdude>Daevien: that's bullshit
15:09<HoopyCat>pigdude: in theory, you don't major in something you're already particularly good at
15:09<A-KO>that is bullshit
15:09<A-KO>HoopyCat: I would :P
15:10<swaj>yeah I don't have a degree either, but I've had a great career as a developer so far.
15:10<pigdude>Daevien: i make 75k and i'm 23
15:10<swaj>just an HS diploma
15:10<pigdude>Daevien: and i dont even work hard
15:10<swaj>I'm making 80k as a developer at 27 with no college degree.
15:10<Daevien>pigdude: really? why else am i (non degree holding person) fucked and working at a staples store to try and make ends meet then? maybe it doesn't apply everywhere and you are just lucky that it does in yoru area
15:10<swaj>been doing development for 6 years now
15:10<pigdude>Daevien: because you have no skills
15:10<A-KO>Daevien: Areas strong in IT with a strong IT knowledge tend to do very well.
15:11<swaj>(I'm in St. Louis, MO)
15:11<pigdude>Daevien: this is a technical trade, just like carpentry and plumbing
15:11<HoopyCat>Daevien: skills and connections... the fun jobs usually aren't posted
15:11<pigdude>Daevien: if you were a good electrician you'd find a job, no degree
15:11<A-KO>HoopyCat: usually not :P
15:11<Jesta>swaj: same situation.
15:11<pharaun>its usually the connection not the skill
15:11<@jed>HoopyCat: ++
15:11<rnowak>electricians here require a degree, and thank god they do.
15:11<pigdude>i've got my jobs from recruiters mostly
15:11<deejoe>well, you need both, probably
15:11<pigdude>i dont network
15:11<A-KO>I network like mad, socially.
15:11<@jed>seriously, once I got hired at Linode, all of the non-published jobs found me
15:12<deejoe>connections and at least some competence
15:12<@jed>networking is the holy grail
15:12<pigdude>jed: ooh nice linode i have a server with you guys :^)
15:12<swaj>my first dev job was through somebody I knew. After that it was all me.
15:12<pharaun>deejoe: then how do you explain all of the fucktards who somehow gets high paying jobs where they can't even do it (no skill)
15:12<A-KO>pharaun: networking :P
15:12<pharaun>A-KO: bingo
15:12<Daevien>ah so i just suck eeven though i've got experience going back to when many of you were jsut barely born. thanks for the update
15:12<pharaun>hence my claim of networking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill usually
15:12<pigdude>i got my first dev job, interviewed a week before i graduated HS, by posting my resume on craisglist lol
15:12<@jed>Daevien: it's convincing the person on the other end of the table of that, not us
15:12<@jed>we know, he doesn't
15:12<pigdude>maybe it's different these days
15:13<swaj>in software development, at least here in St. Louis, experience > degree
15:13<pharaun>swaj: rare
15:13<pigdude>same thing in DC
15:13<pigdude>swaj: no
15:13<pigdude>pharaun: no
15:13<swaj>it's not rare
15:13<HoopyCat>rnowak: a degree in anything in particular? electricians here don't need a degree, but they generally require a lengthy apprenticeship. turns out knowing trigonometry doesn't help you bend conduit :-)
15:13<pharaun>yes it is rare, depending on what area in the country you are in
15:13<pharaun>and what industry you are into
15:14<pigdude>pharaun: we're talking IT
15:14<Daevien>i'll be 33 in august, without a degreee, i get skipped by hr even though i've been involved in telecommunications of some kind (bbs then isp, web hosting, admin, etc) since 93, started an isp when i was in high school, etc
15:14<rnowak>HoopyCat: it is a specific path to becoming an electrician, so it is work-related - the course is 6 months I think
15:14<deejoe>"skipped by hr" != networking
15:14<A-KO>My biggest problem with higher education is they're degree factories, but that's about it. They're not truly learning factories. For example, I attend a local hackerspace. You can learn so much more so fast about practical application of knowledge than you would in a university classroom.
15:14<pharaun>pigdude: oh ok, in that case, that may vary, i'm not in IT :)
15:14<rnowak>HoopyCat: after that, they need a year of apprenticeship as well before they can act as fullblown electricians on their own
15:14<swaj>a degree is just a door opener. Experience is what hiring managers really care about. Can you do the job? That's been my experience over the last 6-7 years at least.
15:14<A-KO>Daevien: Xanax/ADHD meds
15:14<mdcollins>I wish I did get a degree shortly after highschool. I wouldn't be stuck at a call center job I loath..
15:14<@jed>Daevien: apply for Linode support
15:14<swaj>Daevien: where do you live?
15:14<pharaun>jed: he's not in the usa
15:15<rnowak>HoopyCat: so "degree" might be the wrong way to put it, but they need to have these qualifications which this course/programme provides them with
15:15<Daevien>i'm canadian :p
15:15<HoopyCat>rnowak: ah, yup. so not a "degree" in the "associates"/"bachelors" sense, but still some classroom and on-the-job training
15:15-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
15:15<rnowak>HoopyCat: yeah :)
15:15<mdcollins>I should probably take the A+ and Network+ cert tests that I prepped for.
15:15<Daevien>tjfontaine: and what company will take the time to sponsor someone withotu a degree? it's a royal pain in the ass, so i get dumped for someone they can get through easier
15:15<pigdude>mdcollins: cisco certs = money, i hear
15:15<swaj>Daevien: well I definitely can't speak for canada, but here in the US, honestly your experience is far more relevant than your degree. At least in IT/software development.
15:15<tjfontaine>Daevien: just walk across
15:16<rnowak>zomg, the canadians are invading
15:16<swaj>A+ didn't get me anything, honestly. I have CompTIA A+ certification, and I don't think it's done a single thing for me.
15:16<A-KO>A+ is useless
15:16<pigdude>thats what i heard
15:16<HoopyCat>rnowak: it's a five-year program here... ~6 months classroom, the rest working. once you're done, you're a journeyman! and then you sit on the books until hell freezes over
15:16<A-KO>Network+ is worth far more
15:16<@jed>it's another bullet point for a resume, about all
15:16<pigdude>i was going to do it and just started with web design instead
15:16<pigdude>so easy
15:16<mdcollins>pigdude, Yeah, but the classes are right in the middle of my work schedule and my work isn't willing to budge for non-degree college classes.
15:16<A-KO>yeah jed
15:16<Jesta>MCP (Passing 1 test) is probably more valuable than A+
15:16<pigdude>mdcollins: i thought you can just study for that with books etc
15:16<rnowak>HoopyCat: ah, quite lengthy then
15:16<Daevien>tjfontaine: i spent time in dallas doign that.. and got screwed cause they were suppsoed to be workign onthe papers.. so i'm leery about it, plus findign somoene that will hire someone illegal w/o papers = small chance again :p
15:16<A-KO>Daevien: I'd look at starting a blog/site/portfolio, too.
15:17<A-KO>That's one of the things I've seen some people try more these days
15:17<swaj>honestly, in software dev I don't think certificates do much for you either.
15:17<HoopyCat>rnowak: i think a lot of it is to wear people down and make them give up, so as to keep the supply of electricians in check ;-)
15:17<mdcollins>True, but hands on with CCNA is way better. At my local community college they have cisco routers that groups of 3 get.
15:17<swaj>it might help get that first job
15:17<A-KO>swaj: Honestly, I'd prefer most developers I work with to have degrees.
15:17<swaj>but once you've got experience, you're golden
15:17<Daevien>being in a small area hurts me too, i'll admit that. but it's hard to get anywhere else w/o making a decent wage on the flip side. so it's a nasty catch 22
15:17<rnowak>HoopyCat: haha :)
15:17<HoopyCat>rnowak: then again, if you can't survive five years, odds are good it's not the career for you
15:17<pigdude>honestly if you can code, and actually code, make an account on github or bitbucket and just start publishing stuff there
15:17<A-KO>I've met a bunch of people in my IT career
15:17<pigdude>you will be able to get a job
15:17<swaj>A-KO: that's an old school mentality, though.
15:17<pigdude>esp. if you work with other projects
15:17<A-KO>and let me tel you what.
15:17<@jed>I thought a cool use for our ciscos that are no longer in use would be to rent them out for cert experience
15:17<@jed>but I don't think we have any
15:17<mdcollins>Though, they do have a cisco ios emulator that I got a copy when I took the first of 4 CCNA classes.
15:18<A-KO>swaj: No, it's actually pretty new school for me in that I've met a lot of realy shitty people in the field. That isn't to say there aren't a lot of good people out there, but it's EXTREMELY difficult to find them in the sea of shit that comes your way when you post jobs.
15:18<rnowak>HoopyCat: that's very true. An older friend of mine which used to own a computer shop, went this electrician path two years ago, so it is accessible to people in their "later" years as well, compared to academia here
15:18<tozz>a degree is cool if you do desktop apps, working with web I've only seen degrees hinder people in doing a good job
15:18-!-stafamus [~stafamus@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:18<HoopyCat>jed: cisco themselves do that now, i believe; packetlife (who do that) reviewed it awhile back
15:18<tozz>A-KO: any company serious about hiring doesn't post jobs imo, head hunting is the only way
15:18<pixl>To chime in. A good code sample goes a long way it seems. I only have an irrelevant associates degree and I landed a programming position.
15:18<Daevien>A-KO: programmign is more of a side interest, i've doen it as a job but i'm more into admin stuff. no where near as strogn for design/programming though i can do it
15:18<pharaun>jed: renting em out seems like a neat idea esp if it was for a reasoanble price!
15:18<swaj>A-KO: oh certainly. But a degree just isn't a good way to weed the shit from the good.
15:19<Daevien>i'm also in a pissy mood anyway so thats prob why i'm so negative right now. basically my last shot at a local job here just skated by me as they are interviewing final people now and i didnt' even get a phone interview. so i'm just grumpy today i guess
15:19<HoopyCat>rnowak: nod... it's hard work, but it's pretty rewarding when it goes well. i've always envied my wife's ability to leave work at the end of the day. (us packet-flingers never leave work)
15:19-!-laser` [] has joined #linode
15:20<rnowak>HoopyCat: hehe :)
15:20<A-KO>no, it's not. It's why I also network at various hackerspace and professional meetups locally :P not only to maybe eventually help with a job down the line, but to also look out for people to recruit.
15:20<pixl>It helps to know people too.
15:20*mdcollins has personal experience in IT work, just not professional experience.
15:20<A-KO>and learn :P
15:20<mdcollins>Anyone need an intern for a few hours each day?
15:20<A-KO>There are a lot of very intelligent people out there, you just have to learn how to find them.
15:21<mdcollins>I'd do it for free for the experience and good reference.
15:21<SleePy>Its easier to find the less intelligent ones though :P
15:21<swaj>mdcollins: if you were in St. Louis, I probably could score you an internship.
15:22<mdcollins>That's it, I'm moving.. Apparently no one wants IT in my part of California.
15:22<pigdude>i guess i shouldn't take my job for granted
15:22<A-KO>SleePy: I went to one of our developers at work right now, he's writing the server portion of a critical application the company's betting a lot of money on. Arguably the most important piece in the puzzle. And I discussed with him about hashing algorithms/etc. And I had written a PHP page to benchmark various hashing systems on my linode (for kicks really, and a general idea, nothing scientific)...
15:22<A-KO>and I mentioend "salting" and he said: "salt?"
15:22<A-KO>and then "What's a hashing algorithm?"
15:22<HoopyCat>mdcollins: what sort of cool stuff can you do? would part-time contract django/python developer be a tree upon which up you might bark?
15:23<pixl>A-KO: ouch
15:23<swaj>A-KO: ouch...
15:23<SleePy>Oh god.
15:23<HoopyCat>ugh, screw this never-end-a-sentence-with-a-preposition thing
15:23<pixl>A-KO: I know the type all too well.
15:23<swaj>A-KO: I know Bcrypt isn't "technically" a hashing algorithm, but you should use it :P
15:23<A-KO>swaj: I'm actually using PHP 5.3.2's crypt() system :P
15:23<A-KO>but it's insanely slow
15:23<A-KO>in comparison...
15:23<swaj>bcrypt = win
15:24<swaj>it's a cipher, but it essentially produces a hash.
15:24<A-KO>PHP's crypt() is now equivalent to the crypt() function used in Ubuntu/RHEL/other flavors of linux
15:24<mdcollins>Well, a bit of PHP/html, shell scripting and linux admin stuff. I've set up plenty of linux box in my experiments (Good ol' xen testing box)
15:24<A-KO>if it's good enough for the shadow file
15:24<SleePy>Buy 50 lbs of salt. Fill his tower with salt. ??? Profit.
15:24<A-KO>it's good enough for me :P
15:24<pigdude>A-KO: oh god
15:24<pigdude>A-KO: see, that's the thing
15:24<pigdude>A-KO: there are so few people who can actually code
15:24<pharaun>oh god, salt?
15:24<pixl>make sure that it is seasalt
15:24<pigdude>A-KO: that i basically can do as I please at jobs
15:24<swaj>linux crypt() is usually blowfish I think.... which is what bcrypt uses :P
15:25-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:25<A-KO>swaj: is what PHP's crypt() function is based on
15:25<A-KO>should be good enough?
15:25<SleePy>Never mind that blowfish has a known weakness being fixed :P
15:25<mdcollins>I've done a small bit of python, but no where near proficient at it.
15:25<swaj>SHA-512 is a good hashing algorithm, but it needs to be hashed a thousand times or so.
15:25<A-KO>SHA512 on my linode at 5000 rounds/second pushes about 33 hashes/second
15:25<A-KO>swaj: the default is 5000 rounds
15:25<A-KO>min = 1000
15:26<A-KO>33/second might be a bit too slow for some larger sites though
15:26<pharaun>SleePy: what known weakness :x
15:26<A-KO>for my stuff it's easy enough
15:26<pharaun>oh thats news to me :o
15:26<HoopyCat>at least on my local system (boontoo 10.04), /etc/shadow uses SHA-512
15:26<swaj>SleePy: that's news to me. that post is quite new
15:26<JshWright>I thought that was a bcrypt issue, not a blowfish issue?
15:27<SleePy>pharaun, It was on the php internals mailing list. They are trying to see how to fix it in PHP without bc breakage.
15:27-!-chmac [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:27<hawk>SleePy: Not blowfish itself, but a blowfish implementation... right?
15:27<@jed>reasons to just stick with multi-round hashing #240
15:27<navi>jed: What's reason 1?
15:27<@jed>everybody else does
15:28<navi>jed: And if "everybody else" jumped off a cliff...
15:28<A-KO>my biggest issue is secure salt generation....
15:28<@jed>A-KO: /dev/random?
15:28-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
15:28<SleePy>hawk, I haven't read into the full details of it. Just seen it pop up the other day.
15:28<A-KO>jed : yeah, I'm using mcrypt_create_iv() from /dev/urandom (for speed), then MD5'g that to use
15:28<navi>Is there a /dev/predictable ?
15:28<HoopyCat>navi: /dev/zero
15:28<A-KO>MD5'ing because it's a fast way to meet [A-Za-z0-9]
15:28<pharaun>ugh windows.bat scripts can go to hell
15:28<pigdude>navi: /bin/yes
15:28<@jed>don't use /dev/urandom for security ever!
15:29<swaj>this only affects passwords with 8-bit characters it seems.
15:29<navi>jed: Agreed
15:29*jed lights FIRES
15:29<navi>urmom is urandom
15:29<A-KO>let's see how slow it slows down using /dev/random :P
15:29<@jed>feed it
15:29<@jed>urandom == bad bad bad ** 500
15:29<navi>insert randomosity
15:29<navi>or 50¢
15:30<@jed>if Linode were to gather the unused entropy from the hosts we could probably make entropy-as-a-service
15:30<pixl>A-KO: /dev/urandom or openssl_random_pseudo_bytes?
15:30<HoopyCat>jed: there's enough liability that i'd advise actually using a hardware RNG
15:30<pharaun>isn't one of the issue with entropy on a server the lack of external sources to generate the entropy
15:30<@jed>shh, that's reasonable
15:31<hawk>SleePy: To my understanding it's it's nothing to do with blowfish itself, but a problem in a C implementation of crypt_blowfish
15:31<A-KO> < pixl
15:31<mdcollins>Hoopycat, I probably should have directed my replys at you, but I know a little python, but not much. I know more php/html, bash scripting and general linux admin type stuff.
15:31<hawk>SleePy: might be worthwhile
15:32<SleePy>hawk, It does look like that.
15:32-!-trinitronx [] has joined #linode
15:32<A-KO>yeah, it won't even come up when I use /dev/random
15:32-!-JoeK [~JoeK@] has joined #linode
15:32-!-zack__ [~zack@] has quit [Quit: zack__]
15:32<SleePy>But if that C implantation is in the system itself and applications are using the systems c implantation of blowfish...
15:33<hawk>SleePy: Absolutely
15:33<hawk>SleePy: (crypt_blowfish, not blowfish in general, mind you)
15:33<HoopyCat>mdcollins: do something cool. :-) find a problem, fix it with code, put it on github. doesn't have to be huge, doesn't have to be popular, just has to be cool. mash different things together, make a sculpture out of the banana/potato puree.
15:33<trinitronx>Hello! We're using the latest kernel you guys have but it doesn't seem to support SHA256... the previous kernels we were using seemed to have this
15:34-!-zack_ [~zack@] has joined #linode
15:34<trinitronx>what latest kernel image is recommended that would have this support?
15:34<SleePy>hawk, Sorry for the confusion.
15:34<hawk>trinitronx: The previous kernel was also one of the linode provided ones? Or something from the distro or custom?
15:35-!-sm` [] has joined #linode
15:35<navi>If I check my config.gz I see CONFIG_CRYPTO_SHA256=y
15:35<sm`>g'day all
15:35<HoopyCat>trinitronx: hrm, is the latest? "zgrep SHA /proc/config.gz" shows it's there
15:35<trinitronx>yeah, we've been using the linode provided kernels only
15:35<navi>HoopyCat: I beat you
15:35<navi>with... a cactus!
15:35<sm`>my 32-bit ubuntu 10.10 (Latest 2.6 Paravirt ( just hung with apache traceback on console again :(
15:35*navi goes and grabs the cactus
15:35<hawk>HoopyCat: does not have SHA256 or SHA512
15:35<HoopyCat>navi: had to find my lowest-uptime linode :-)
15:35<sm`>it happens about every other week since I upgraded os & kernel
15:36<trinitronx>yes... we are using x84_64
15:36<navi>you're missing some bits.
15:36<trinitronx>it would be nice to have this support in the latest x86_64 kernel
15:37*navi mutters "x84" quietly
15:37<HoopyCat>trinitronx: ahhh... hmm, might be worth a ticket. the 64-bit kernels tend to not get as much attention as the 32-bit kernels, so it probably got lost
15:37<A-KO>jed: How exactly do you feed /dev/random on a VPS?
15:37<navi>If you ticket it I'm sure they'll roll a new one or something
15:37<swaj>A-KO: it cracks me up that you hate on Java and then use something like PHP :P
15:37<navi>A-KO: Do stuff
15:37<HoopyCat>caker: ^^^ trinitronx notes that is lacking CONFIG_CRYPTO_SHA256, while previous kernels had it
15:38*HoopyCat aims for the shortcut
15:38<A-KO>swaj: hey, it gets the job done ;) But no, my hatred for Java has more to do from an Administration standpoint than a development standpoint.
15:38<hawk>CONFIG_CRYPTO_SHA512 as well for that matter
15:38<navi>A-KO: Get a desktop and move the mouse around it
15:38<trinitronx>as far as a quick fix... is there any downside (ie: security issues) to picking (which does seem to have this support)
15:38<HoopyCat>hawk: you noted that, trinitronx didn't ;-) i figured the attribution would get weird.
15:38-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
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15:39<hawk>trinitronx: Locally I think you can be pretty sure that there is some form of security implication
15:39<HoopyCat>trinitronx: should be ok... kernels with security issues end up on the deprecated list
15:40-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40<navi> is from Aug 26th 2010
15:41<navi>And got replaced with recently
15:41<HoopyCat>trinitronx: all other things being equal, the goal is to have Latest 2.6 Paravirt point at the latest mainstream kernel that isn't unstable
15:41<navi>so I can only assume there's something in it that needs changing
15:41-!-JoeK [~JoeK@] has quit [Quit: O_O.]
15:41<HoopyCat>(hi there, 2.6.36 and .37)
15:44<navi>CVE-2010-3079 CVE-2010-3080 CVE-2010-2960 CVE-2010-2962 ( CVE-2010-3698 CVE-2010-4565
15:44<swaj>is the latest still ?
15:45<navi>The issues fixed in later releases of 2.6.35 than .4 - that one with the URL, not sure how servious it is, but it says it's a Xen crash fixer
15:45<retro|blah>Last time I checked latest was .39.1
15:45<retro|blah>The latest Linode kernle anyway
15:45-!-JoeK [~JoeK@] has joined #linode
15:45<hawk>39.2 is the latest upstream
15:45<HoopyCat>Latest 2.6 Paravirt ( - 2011-06-21
15:46<retro|blah>System Information: Model: MacBook Pro (Mid 2009) • CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo P7550 (2 Cores) @ 2.26 GHz • L2: 3.15 MB • Memory: 2.00 GB • Uptime: 20 Hours • Disk Space: Total: 319.40 GB; Free: 76.11 GB • Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 9400M • Screen Resolution: 1280 x 800 • Load: 7% • OS: Mac OS X 10.6.8 (Build 10K540) (32-bit kernel)
15:46<navi>Migh Lighnoude kernle verzhun iz too poynt sicks poynt firtynighn poynt wuhn.
15:46<retro|blah>Hm, that is not what I wanted. Sorry for that
15:46<navi>Linux version 4 is the newest one
15:47<navi>It's due to be released in 2021.
15:47<mdcollins>HoopyCat, I do actually have a few projects and one is to make a personal scripts homepage.
15:47<navi>It may get delayed a little bit if they're using the same project planning and timelining techniques as CentOS
15:48<swaj>Linux 3 RC1 is out ->
15:48<navi>swaj: RC 5 is out
15:48<navi>came out yesterday
15:48<navi>( )
15:49-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:50-!-Jippi [] has joined #linode
15:50<A-KO>I'm on -linode33...
15:50-!-mathew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:50<navi>Swap to 34
15:51<A-KO>gotta reboot for that
15:51<navi>A-KO: Are you 32 or 64 bit
15:51<A-KO>the site shows -34
15:51<navi>You get a little extra ram then
15:51<A-KO>but uname -a is on -33
15:51<A-KO>is there like a changelog?
15:51<navi>My RAM on a 512 went from about 430 to 490
15:51<navi>They fixed the "I eat your ram muahahaha" style
15:52<A-KO>that works
15:52<HoopyCat>A-KO: linode doesn't reboot your linode for you when the latest kernel pointer changes
15:52<A-KO>I actually had memory issues this week
15:53-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
15:54<navi>A-KO: Have you got around to resizing your disks to take advantage of the +25%?
15:55<A-KO>yeah, did that last weekend actually :P
15:55<navi>How come your kernel isn't updated then?
15:55-!-JoeK [~JoeK@] has quit [Quit: O_O.]
15:55<A-KO>oh, maybe it was the weekend before that then
15:58<trinitronx>where can we find the source for your latest paravirt kernel? It doesn't seem to be in /src
15:59-!-pigdude [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:59<trinitronx>you guys just use vanilla?
15:59<trinitronx>or rather.. is paravirt a vanilla kernel?
16:00-!-JoeK [~JoeK@] has joined #linode
16:00<HoopyCat>trinitronx: linode doesn't patch the (newer) kernels; the magic is all in the mainline now
16:00<navi>whee mainline
16:01<trinitronx>HoopyCat: ok, thanks!
16:01<swaj>since 2.6.23, paravirt-ops has been in mainline
16:01<AviMarcus>anyone here use Paypal virtual terminal? Can I use an API to submit charges to the virtual terminal? and once I do, can I not store the credit card and just use a reference number for it instead?
16:01-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
16:02<swaj>trinitronx: check for the relevant PV config stuff
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16:03<hawk>I would start out with /proc/config.gz
16:03-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<swaj>zcat /proc/config.gz | grep -i xen
16:05<swaj>but I like piping cats!
16:05<HoopyCat>zgrep -i xen /proc/config.gz
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16:17<@Perihelion>Smell the smelly smell of something that smells...smelly.
16:17-!-pygi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:20<swaj>Taste the tasty taste of something that tastes...tasty!
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16:22<swaj>so, with the default block of IPv6 addreeses I was given by linode (4096 I think), could I use OpenVPN or something similar to ipv6-enable my house? I mean is that block routed to my main IP so I can dish out the addresses?
16:23<hawk>swaj: You could just get a tunnel and advertise the prefix for the tunel at your house
16:24<swaj>I suppose
16:24<swaj>i miss the PPTP VPN option that HE's tunnelbroker had
16:25<HoopyCat>swaj: the pool addresses are generally only useful for linodes; tunneling them back home would get weird, routing-wise
16:25<HoopyCat>it's probably possible, sure, but i just use HE
16:28<JshWright>there wouldn't be enough address space available to use router advertisement based addressing
16:28<Nivex>HoopyCat: very weird. it involves proxy ND, which you can't even read the state out of the kernel on
16:29<Nivex>which isn't to say that it doesn't work beautifully :)
16:29<hawk>swaj: What was the advantage with the pptp thing? Easier to work with in Windows or something like that?
16:29-!-adnc [] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
16:30-!-linville [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:30<Nivex>but yeah, for my test lab router, I converge an HE and an OpenVPN tunnel on my Linode
16:31-!-jspiros [jspiros@2001:470:1f07:f30::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31<Nivex>time to head home!
16:31<A-KO>FYI: IE10 Preview 2 out
16:31<A-KO>for those that care :P
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16:36*Perihelion hisses
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16:45<io_>hi is it possible to launch a GUI for my VPS, like remote desktop?
16:46<swaj>I'm thining about making my LAN at home 100% public ipv6 with no ipv4 addresses on the actual client computers.
16:47<A-KO>swaj : ouch
16:48<tjfontaine>io_: you can, using vnc or similar, it's just not something most will suggest
16:48<hawk>swaj: I suppose you could... but it seems easier to have dual stack all the way out to the endpoint... I assume you will want to be able to reach the "legacy" internets?
16:48<swaj>hawk: I do want to be able to hit IPv4 still. Isn't there something like DS-lite that can be used to issue only IPv6 addresses and still hit the ipv4 internet?
16:49-!-jspiros [] has joined #linode
16:49<hawk>swaj: I'm sure there are several somethings
16:49<swaj>NAT64 maybe
16:50-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
16:50<io_>tjfontaine: I was just curious ;-)
16:51<A-KO>swaj: Your best bet is to dual stack
16:51<A-KO>people ask about it all of the itme, but usually in reverse :P
16:51<swaj>yeah it seems that way
16:51<nohh>IE10! Exciting!
16:51<A-KO>dual stack is likely the better option
16:51<A-KO>that said
16:51<A-KO>I am looking at setting up specific services reachable by IPv6 only
16:52<A-KO>but I'm not sure what those services might entail
16:52<nohh>how about a web server that hosts a static page that just says 'You use IPv6 - you're cool'
16:52<swaj>well I need IPv6 in my house for sure. My silly u-verse router doesn't support protocol 41, so is out unless I just flip the DMZ switch and put another firewall in place.
16:53<swaj>which I'm semi inclined to do...
16:53<A-KO>swaj: iptables? ;)
16:53<A-KO>a quick linux box would get the job done.
16:53-!-dingleberry [] has joined #linode
16:53<swaj>A-KO: I don't want my main desktop to shell out IP's for my LAN. I have a spare P4 crap-box laying around but it's loud and uses a lot of power.
16:54-!-io_ [] has left #linode []
16:54<A-KO>pick up a device that will support openwrt
16:54<dingleberry>hi my server is saying ive got little space free, but i know thats not the case. is there a quick way of checking to see if there are large files on the server that need deleting in ubuntu
16:54<swaj>I've got DD-WRT loaded on a little linksys router
16:54<swaj>but it's just a client atm
16:54<swaj>so my Xbox can get online :P
16:56<swaj>dingleberry: sudo su -c "find / -size +10000k -print0 | xargs -0 ls -lh"
16:57<swaj>that will print all files > 10 MB on your entire drive
16:57<+linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Deploy a High Performance Key-Value Store using Redis on Debian 6 (Squeeze) <> || Monitor System Logs with Logwatch on Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick) <>
16:58<mdcollins>dingleberry, if the files are deleted but still opened by a program, they count towards the disk usage.
16:58<mdcollins>Like log files may have that issue.
16:58-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
16:59<dingleberry>ahh ive been using vnc and had log file probs with that before could that be the culprit? coz i left it on for a while
17:00-!-KHobbits [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00<mdcollins>After the program closes it's freed though.
17:01<dingleberry>its weird bz i selected all my folders and the total is 3.6 gb
17:01<dingleberry>but linode is saying 16gb?
17:01<navi>dingleberry: How large is the drive?
17:01<navi>dingleberry: Linode is telling you the total space on the drive, not how full it is.
17:01<mdcollins>are you looking at and the disk usage through there?
17:01<swaj>dingleberry: are you looking at linode manager?
17:01<navi>dingleberry: Linode doesn't know the content.
17:01<dingleberry>have i been hacked maybE?
17:01*navi thinks this is another case of misinterpreting the 80%
17:02<swaj>dingleberry: linode manager is just telling you that you've allocated all your space to nodes. not that your actual partition is full.
17:02<navi>swaj: If it's 16GB, it's not been resized
17:02-!-bbeausej [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:02<dingleberry>is that right - Used: 16384 MB?
17:02<navi>dingleberry: What, you think you've been ahcked by someone whose sole intention is to fill your drive up?
17:02<navi>dingleberry: That is how much of your linode allowance is used
17:02<swaj>meanwhile, you should shut down and resize that disk, because Linode gave you an extra 4 GB for their birthday :)
17:02<navi>dingleberry: Not how much fot eh drive itself
17:03<navi>*of the
17:03<dingleberry>so linode doesnt tell me how much space ive used up? i can use linux for that?
17:03<navi>dingleberry: Yes. Linode doesn't know how much you've used.
17:03<navi>dingleberry: They don't look inside your drive
17:03<dingleberry>your so kind peeps and helpful , thx
17:03<navi>dingleberry: df -h is your friend
17:03<swaj>he's using VNC :P
17:04<swaj>he's got xorg installed on his node
17:04<dingleberry>i know its poor
17:04<navi>VNC is NOBODY's friend.
17:04<hawk>swaj: He can run his favorite terminal in there
17:04<dingleberry>im getting rid of it soon i promise ...
17:04<swaj>indeed :P
17:04<swaj>hey if it makes you happy, dingleberrt, run whatever you want :P
17:04*navi goes to run Windows Server on a linode
17:05*navi goes to run a botnet command and control server on his linode
17:05<swaj>you could do that (windows that is)
17:05<navi>it... makes me happy?
17:05-!-Hellojere [~Hellojere@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:05<swaj>kvm+qemu on your linode :P
17:05-!-Parallax [] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client:]
17:05<swaj>it would be slow as hell, but it would work :P
17:05<pharaun>er only if xen passes through VT
17:05-!-smsfail [] has joined #linode
17:05<hawk>pharaun: Is that even possible to do?
17:05<dingleberry>i really can use linux without vnc, but if i have a server with it installed i cant help but use it, so easy
17:06<pharaun>hawk: no afaik, hence me saying "only if" :)
17:06*navi finds the CLI easier
17:06<pharaun>tho that was kind of poorly worded :)
17:07-!-jspiros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:07-!-BarkerJr [BarkerJr@2002:1802:e75d:1:1506:3673:4121:245] has joined #linode
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17:07<pharaun>i think you can do qemu, openvz, and anything else that does not depend on VT in your linode, however afaik to get windows to run you are going to need some sort of total emulation or VT
17:07-!-jspiros [] has joined #linode
17:07<swaj>not with openvz
17:08<swaj>openvz modifies the guest
17:09-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:09<pharaun>swaj: eh? you can load your own kernel in a linode right, so you can load up a kernel that has support for openvz,
17:09<pharaun>but no you can't run windows with openvz
17:10<swaj>I'm getting confused with virtuozzo
17:10<swaj>which does run Windows guests
17:11*navi wonders what linode would stand for if it were an acronym
17:11<pharaun>does it require drivers/patches/lots of work to get a windows guest to go?
17:12<navi>Linode Is Not OpenVZ something something
17:12<navi>Driver Enabled?
17:12<swaj>Virtuozzo is weird. Windows guests are almost like FreeBSD chroot stuff
17:13<pharaun>navi: no, we are talkinga bout running openvz, windows, whatever in your linode vps :p
17:13<swaj>I had a virtuozzo-based windows VM once, and I didn't like it.
17:13<pharaun>swaj: ah? interesting
17:13<navi>pharaun: If you were to read my messages, you'd see that response means nothing.
17:13<navi>pharaun: I said "navi wonders what linode would stand for if it were an acronym"
17:13<pharaun>navi: oh i missed that :p
17:14<navi>pharaun: And all I can think of for L.I.N.O.D.E is that.
17:14<swaj>somebody the other day said "Large Indoor Nerds Organizing Dangerous Entertainment"
17:14<navi>Oh my god google's changed
17:14<nohh>call the internetpolice
17:14<swaj>yeah Google is awesome now :P
17:15<swaj>the new search rocks
17:15<nohh>my bar turned black D:
17:15<navi>the search button is WEIRD
17:15<pharaun>not a fan of the bar :|
17:15<navi>huge and blue with a magnifier in?
17:15<pharaun>i like the idea but it being... black :x
17:15<pharaun>if they made the background black i wouldn't mind :D
17:15<swaj>I like the bar. I wonder how they're making money though, beause I see no advertisements anywhere on my search results page.
17:15<pharaun>its too jarring as it is right now :\
17:16<pharaun>if i had a black window themed window environment or
17:16<pharaun>the background was black on the website, it would not be as jarring imho
17:16-!-Parallax [] has joined #linode
17:16<nohh>i like how a google search for "1" returns info about google's +1 button ahead of the wikipedia article for the number ._.
17:17-!-dajhorn [] has quit []
17:17<navi>I'm backronymming LINODE
17:17<navi>Sounds like a really dodgy adult act
17:18<navi>"Leafy Inexhaustible Numeral Okay Detachable Emulsifier"
17:18<navi>"Literatim Inconsiderate Nameless Outgrow Deathless Elderberry"
17:19<navi>..."Loose Introspection Niece Orphan Doorway Emphasis"
17:19<nohh>using a backronym generator is cheating
17:20<navi>But without it I'd come up with "Luggage Immaturity - Noodles Or Detatchable Ears?"
17:20-!-DJ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:21-!-userme [] has quit [Quit: userme]
17:23<nohh>Linode Is Navi's Only Daily Enjoyment
17:23<nohh>not that hard
17:24<navi>Lalalala Ibibibi Nananananaaaaa Oh Dear ericoc.
17:26<+linbot>navi: Point (0.95287527, 0.65610427) falls outside of the unit circle. Hits: 98944 of 125655 (π ≈ 3.149703553380288 - 0.008110899790494). http://π
17:26<navi>getting closer
17:28<pharaun>indeed, its also "within" the range too :p
17:29<pharaun>see that 0.0081 number
17:29-!-TheEvilLime [~TheEvilLi@] has joined #linode
17:29<pharaun>that's the distance it is from true pi
17:30<navi>pharaun: Within what range?
17:31<nohh>good enough for government work
17:32<navi>nohh: ...
17:32<navi>nohh: So I can use pi as 2.83?
17:33<navi>nohh: or 3.45.
17:33<nohh>close enough
17:33-!-Cypher100 [] has joined #linode
17:33<pharaun>good ol government
17:33<navi>can I pay taxes give or take 10% too?
17:33<navi>Double standards, I feel.
17:33<Cypher100>If a get a linode right now, this months bandwidth?
17:33<nohh>give yes, take no
17:34<Cypher100>get this months bandwidth*
17:34<pharaun>Cypher100: just wait till july 1st and get the node
17:34<pharaun>you're going to have tiny bw
17:34<navi>If you sign up now you'll get like 10GB?
17:35<pharaun>navi: more like 6.8gb min?
17:35<straterra>It's prorated
17:36-!-jord [] has joined #linode
17:36<navi>pharaun: Wouldn't they get two days? today and tomorrow?
17:37<pharaun>navi: sort of :p its less than 6.5 hour from end of day today
17:37<navi>pharaun: It's not prorated down to the second though?
17:37<pharaun>nah, by day
17:38<pharaun>so probably i guess
17:38<pharaun>still tiny amount of bw :p
17:38-!-Plinker_ [] has joined #linode
17:41-!-TheEvilLime [~TheEvilLi@] has quit [Quit: TheEvilLime]
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17:44<navi>pharaun: But you don't need that much during setup
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17:55<+linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Monitor System Logs with Logwatch on Fedora 14 <> || Manage Email Lists with GNU Mailman on Debian 6 (Squeeze) <>
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18:06<swaj>can I use Linode to provide RDNS for my IPv6 tunnel? Does the DNS manager recognize arpa zones?
18:07<hawk>It shouldn't have to
18:07<swaj>if I delegate RDNS for my /56 to Linode, I just need to know that I can add a zone for it to the Linode Manager
18:07<hawk>But I guess your question may be if it allows adding PTR records...?
18:08<swaj>A reverse zone
18:08<swaj>with PTR records
18:09<hawk>It does not look like adding PTR records is possible... based on my clicking around in the manager
18:09-!-synapt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:16<hawk>(Also not in the API, so my assumption based on what I saw appears to habe been accurate)
18:16-!-Cruiser|Afk is now known as Cruiser
18:17<SleePy>I have two remotes to this tv.. I lost both of them :|
18:17<hawk>s/have/had/ then, I suppose
18:18<SleePy>I still have them... Just have to remember where they went now. At least there is something interesting on the channel its on.
18:24<CyL>Hi, my Lish reports the following message "startpar: service(s) returned failure: ... failed!". Running Debian 6, 32 bit. Whats does this means?
18:24<CyL>Also, I'm getting the following error message while booting my system "blkfront: xvdc: empty write barrier op failed blkfront: xvdc: barriers disabled". Is this normal behaviour?
18:29-!-zack_ [] has quit [Quit: zack_]
18:29<+linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Host Discussion Forums with phpBB on Debian 6 (Squeeze) <> || Create a Wiki with Ikiwiki on Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid) <>
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18:42<CyL>How do I run a revory distron on my machine?
18:44-!-Neelix [] has joined #linode
18:44<Neelix>hey guys
18:44<+linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
18:44<Neelix>last month the paiement on my cc wasent taken
18:45<Neelix>so my vps went down ... and therefore i unlinked from the network i am linked to
18:45<Neelix>so this month i did a paiement
18:45<Neelix>before the paiement was taken
18:45<Neelix>it will not be shut down now right?
18:45<bob2>CyL: select finnix in the lpm
18:45<+linbot>Finnix --
18:45<Kyhwana_>Did you submit a support ticket?
18:46<Neelix>before the paiement date i meant sorry
18:46<Neelix>u talking to me Kyh ?
18:46<Neelix>open a ticket for that?
18:46<Neelix>i just wanna know...
18:46<Neelix>i paid manually...
18:46-!-shirro [] has joined #linode
18:46-!-bryen [~bryen@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:46<Neelix>so ... it will not shut down this time... riiiiiGHT?
18:46<bob2>no need for chat speak
18:47<bob2>yes, if your balance is more than you owe, your card will not be tried
18:47<Neelix>thats all i wanna know...
18:47<Neelix>cuz usually u guys jjust take it off my visa...
18:47<Neelix>and when i took another vps this time
18:47<Neelix>the paiement didnt go automatically..
18:47<Neelix>so i did it manually... this time
18:47<Neelix>anyways thanks.
18:48-!-jamescollins [~jamescoll@] has joined #linode
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18:49-!-elkingrey [] has joined #linode
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18:50<Kyhwana_>Neelix: if you have payment issues, it's probably best to email
18:52<elkingrey>Can somebody help me with logistics? There is an NPR podcast that I want to upload to my server. Normally, I would just download it to my computer, then upload it to my server. Problem is, my bandwidth is maxed out for the month and I can't do it. So, that's why I'd like to get my server to download it straight from NPR. Does anybody have any idea how to do that?
18:52<navi>elkingrey: Do you know it's URL/
18:53<bob2>depends how you download it
18:54<elkingrey>Yes, I know it's URL
18:54<bob2>'wget thaturl'
18:55<bob2>if it fails, they may be doing tricky things that you can subvert
18:55<elkingrey>okay, thanks!
18:55<elkingrey>Will try real quick
18:55-!-zack_ [~zack@] has joined #linode
18:55<bob2>note: you need the url of the audio file, not the web page that links to it
18:55-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:57-!-warren [] has joined #linode
18:58<elkingrey>I just logged into my server shell, and it tells me I have mail. What is that all about? And how do I check it?
18:59<bob2>it means you installed an mta and it has been collecting your cron email
18:59-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
18:59<bob2>edit /etc/aliases, add a line like "root:" (no quotes), and run "sudo newaliases"
19:00<bob2>then it'll forward it all to your real email account
19:00<elkingrey>what is cron email?
19:01-!-AviMarcus [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:01<bob2>cron is a scheduler
19:01<bob2>it runs lots of things
19:01<elkingrey>Do I need to get these emails?
19:02<bob2>you should
19:03-!-nicinabox [] has quit [Quit: nicinabox]
19:04-!-MJCS [] has joined #linode
19:04<HoopyCat>model name: SiteMetadata. verbose name, plural: Site Metadata. verbose name, singular: Site Metadatum
19:05*HoopyCat scratches beard
19:05<bob2>oh django
19:07-!-Sajid [] has joined #linode
19:08<Sajid>i need a favor
19:09<Sajid>anyone here?
19:09<+linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
19:10<Sajid>okay. thanks.
19:10-!-Tom [] has joined #linode
19:10<Sajid>I have a account at
19:11<Sajid>now i can see linode offer better feature at really cheap price. now i want to migrate the server.
19:11<Sajid>will linode help me with migrating my data from slicehost?
19:11<swaj>help you? like how?
19:11<Tom>is the main difference to squid and openvpn that squid pushed http traffic form my network to it while openvpn is everything?
19:11<bob2>Sajid: no
19:12<bob2>Tom: in practice for the thing you're thinking of, yeah
19:12<swaj>Tom: you can think of it that way, though that's a bit of a simplification.
19:12<Sajid>bob2, okay. one more question. Does the VPN/cloud hosting work same like slicehost here?
19:12<bob2>can't understand that sentence
19:12<Sajid>bob2, I am talking about system settings and stuffs
19:13<bob2>linode does provide a Xen vps, same as slicehost
19:13<Sajid>okay. that will do
19:13<bob2>if you want a VPN, you can configure one, but that's not much to do with linode the company
19:13<swaj>you'll find that you enjoy an almost identical experience at Linode, except without the suck, at better prices, and a nicer control panel :P
19:13<swaj>your VPS is yours. You do what you want with it, same as slicehost.
19:13<Sajid>thanks for the info
19:13<bob2>swaj: also linode isn't an end of lifed product
19:13<swaj>aye, that too :P
19:14<Sajid>what do u mean by "end of lifed product" ?:P
19:14-!-sivy [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:14<bob2>Sajid: slicehost is going away
19:14<bob2>being rolled into CloudServers or wahtever
19:15<bob2>I like rackspace's products but they sure do have stupid names
19:15<Sajid>Ya. i saw my IP is from rackspace cloud hosting
19:16<Sajid>Can I load balance among multiple nodes?
19:16<swaj>you can
19:17<Tom>Read the features on Sajid.
19:17<swaj>if they are in the same DC, you can get an HA IP address, and then load balance yourself... or, there's actually a beta test going on for a new feature called NodeBalancers. These are load balancers maintained by linode that you can use. During the beta they are free, however when the beta is over, they won't be :P
19:18<Sajid>Your pricing is much cheaper than slicehost. almost half of the price. I wish I could see that before
19:18<swaj>and I think you'll find that the performance is better, too :P
19:18<Sajid>thanks guys.
19:19<Sajid>will transfer my hosting to linode within next month :)
19:20<Sajid>talk to you later then :)
19:20-!-Sajid [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
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19:21<DarkFoxDK>Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble with IPv6. My eth0 interface doesn't get one.
19:21<DarkFoxDK>Even though I have enabled it .
19:21<bob2>did you reboot
19:21<tjfontaine>and have restarted and don't have a firewall blocking the packets?
19:21-!-bryen [] has joined #linode
19:21<Kyhwana_>DarkFoxDK: did you email support asking for it to be enabled and reboot?
19:21<bob2>what do your iptables config look like
19:22<DarkFoxDK>I enabled it in the control panel and rebooted.
19:22<swaj>Step 1> Ask support for a IPv6 allocation (via ticket), Step 2> Ensure your firewall does not block IPv6 autoconfiguration, Step 3> Reboot your Linode.
19:23<DarkFoxDK>Then why does my linode have an IPv6 address listed on the Remote Access tab?
19:23<tjfontaine>or the rest of us in the beginning we had to ask
19:23<tjfontaine>the important part: Did you restart since you enabled it?
19:23<DarkFoxDK>That showed up, when I pressed the link to enable it.
19:24<tjfontaine>do you have a firewall enabled?
19:24<DarkFoxDK>Several times, I enabled it ~a month ago. Just haven't had time to get it working before now.
19:24<swaj>are you using a firewall? (ufw/iptables)
19:24<tjfontaine>ip6tables -L <-- pastebin
19:24-!-Sputnik7 [] has joined #linode
19:24<DarkFoxDK>Ah, that did reveal something...: FATAL: Module ip6_tables not found.
19:25*tjfontaine goes about other business
19:25<swaj>are you on CentOS? :P
19:25<DarkFoxDK>Ubuntu 10.04
19:26<DarkFoxDK>Oh, it was because I didn't do it as root... Phail
19:26-!-warren [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:26<DarkFoxDK>Did it as root, it's empty
19:27<DarkFoxDK>ifconfig output:
19:27<bob2>sudo iptables -L -v -n
19:28<bob2>DarkFoxDK: uptime, uname -a
19:29<DarkFoxDK> 01:28:59 up 11 min, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.02
19:29<DarkFoxDK>Linux wolf #1 SMP Tue Jun 21 10:29:24 EDT 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
19:31<bob2>ok, dunno
19:31<bob2>not sure how to tell if you got a new mac address or not
19:31<bob2>actuially, which dc are you in?
19:31<DarkFoxDK>in /etc/network/interfaces it's set to auto and dhcp btw.
19:31<swaj>yeah ipv6 autoconfigure doesn't need DHCP
19:31<swaj>it just happens
19:32<DarkFoxDK>I know. Just saying that I haven't set up the interface to be static ;-)
19:32<DarkFoxDK>auto eth0
19:32<DarkFoxDK>iface eth0 inet dhcp
19:33<elkingrey>bob2: Okay, perhaps NPR did something tricky. I downloaded it to my server, then linked to the file in the blog like I normally would, but when I click on the link, it takes me to 404 not found.
19:33<swaj>DarkFoxDK: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/default/disable_ipv6
19:33<swaj>it's a long shot :P
19:33<bob2>if you definitely ticked the box, and rebooted, file a ticket I think
19:33<DarkFoxDK>But that would be funny :P
19:33<retro|blah>elkingrey: Linked how?
19:33<bob2>DarkFoxDK: oh, and pastebin /etc/sysctl.conf
19:33<DarkFoxDK>Yeah, I think I'll do that.
19:34<bob2>elkingrey: likely just means you didn't put it in the right place etc
19:34<bob2>unable to help unless you pastebin your console session
19:34<elkingrey><a href="URL"></a>
19:34<DarkFoxDK>I think I found out why...
19:34<retro|blah>elkingrey: And that URL is.............
19:35<bob2>DarkFoxDK: heh
19:35<dominikh>retro|blah: topsecret
19:35<elkingrey><a href="">NPR-The Tuesday Podcast: Libertarian Summer Camp</a>
19:35-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
19:35<retro|blah>Try renaming the mp3 to something more sane
19:35<swaj>DarkFoxDK: that would be an issue methinks :P
19:35<DarkFoxDK>Ayup :P
19:35<elkingrey>how does one do that?
19:36<retro|blah>elkingrey: It might not be liking that ?dl=1 at the end, for starters...
19:36<DarkFoxDK>Think I managed to enable that, when I was setting up a VPN and went "Oh, I've enabled that for IPv4, guess it does the same for IPv6"
19:36<elkingrey>what's the best command for renaming files?
19:37<swaj>DarkFoxDK: I bet if you fix that and reboot, you'll get your address :P
19:37<DarkFoxDK>Yep, works now... *applauds self for that fail*
19:37<elkingrey>mv filename newfilename?
19:37-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38-!-warren [] has joined #linode
19:38<Tom>sudo rm -rf /
19:39<bob2>Tom: no
19:39<bob2>don't joke about that
19:39<swaj>bad Tom
19:39<DarkFoxDK>That joke was never funny...
19:40<DarkFoxDK>Someone might do it.
19:40<chesty>someone has done it
19:41<elkingrey>Works great! Thanks guys!
19:41-!-cereal is now known as cereal|Away
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19:52<dingleberry>anyone using postfix for email server. im using roundcube with postfix and cant get roundcube mail to show the right quote size
19:53*akerl shrugs. He outsources email.
19:53-!-marius_j [] has joined #linode
19:53<dingleberry>to gmail maybe?
19:54<dingleberry>why you do that just less hassle?
19:54<marius_j>heeello everybody
19:54<akerl>Yup. It's free for up to ten people, and each account is a full google account
19:54<bob2>what is a quote size
19:54-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has joined #linode
19:54<dingleberry>so each account has like 10 people?
19:55<dingleberry>i mean a quota size]
19:55<dingleberry>postfix quota
19:55-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
19:55<marius_j>i am hosting a website with joomla in linode, but i cant install modules, it says: failed to move file
19:55<marius_j>someone who know joomla?
19:55<akerl>The free google apps, which is how you host the mail, is limited to 10 "users", where "user" is a distinct inbox. Each user, however, can have a ton of aliased email addresses
19:56<akerl>marius_j: I'm betting this has little to do with joomla, and much to do with file permissions
19:56-!-DarkFoxDK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
19:56<dingleberry>marius_j you need to use chmod for your folders/files and chown to the correct group www-data, or apache depending on distribution
19:57<akerl>I wouldn't recommend doing that, but whatever.
19:57<bob2>definitely a good idea for poorly written PHP cmses to write to the webroot
19:57<bob2>what could possibly go wrong
19:57<dingleberry>ive got roundcube workins quite nicely tho, im going to use as an email distribution server too soon, but id really like to know how to get the quotas right, it seems to not update when i update the quota
19:58<dingleberry>bob2 do i detect a hint of sarcasm there?
19:58<bob2>teeny tiny bit
19:58<bob2>but if you're using joomla you'll probably get pwned anyway
19:59<dingleberry>really bob2 i thought joomla was quite secure as long as you dont allow user input?
19:59*akerl chokes.
19:59<InitHello>what's that? A php web app being poorly coded? Say it ain't so.
19:59<tjfontaine>comptuers are safe so long as you don't plug it in
20:00<synapt>hackers can blow your computer up!!!111
20:00<akerl>synapt: And if you let them near phones, they can launch nukes!
20:00*SleePy opens synapt's optical drive
20:00<dingleberry>so bob2 im curios, why would you not grant www-data group access to joomla?
20:00<synapt>Then again according to numb3rs, we're all hackers and IRC is used purely for hacking and tracing everyone
20:00<bob2>dingleberry: because then when your shitty cms is pwned, it can very easily serve files
20:00<marius_j>i come back tomorrow guys, im too tired to work
20:01<akerl>dingleberry: Because if php can write to it's own files, a vuln in your web app can allow an attacker to upload an execute basically whatever.
20:01<bob2>dingleberry: and spoiler alert, mod_php means 'serving arbitrary files' = 'execute arbitrary code'
20:01<seanh-ansca>any one remember how to expand variables inside variables in bash?
20:01<tjfontaine>very carefully
20:02<dingleberry>so bob2 youre saying that php is the culprit?
20:02<akerl>dingleberry: poor code is the culprit. php happens to facilitate poor code.
20:02<bob2>dingleberry: php's culture encourages extraordinarily shitty code
20:03<InitHello>there are many mediocre coders who just happen to use php, because it's A) easy, and B) everywhere
20:03<dingleberry>joomla core seems pretty well coded to me, its the 3rd party plugins that allow user input that seem to cause problems
20:04<akerl>dingleberry: "seems pretty well coded to me"? This statement is based on what?
20:04<bob2>InitHello: and the culture encourages idiocy
20:04<bob2>e.g. how long was it before it had paramterised queries
20:04<seanh-ansca>for instance.. i have $STUFF which i'm reading in from a file. and in that file i have '$DIR/stuff'. $DIR needs to be expanded
20:04*InitHello shudders
20:04<bob2>there appears to be NO safe way to invoke other processes
20:05<dingleberry>all user input
20:05<bob2>dingleberry: ..........
20:05<akerl>bob2: But it has "safe mode". That must be safe, right :p
20:05<SleePy>bob2, Nobody should rely on register_globals and magic_quotes. Those that do are asking for it.
20:05<InitHello>and suhosin makes it extra secure
20:06-!-marius_j [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
20:10<dingleberry>there are some pretty big sites using drupal and joomla like thhe usa govt and pga golf wouldnt they get hacked?
20:10*Pryon is no PHP coder, but I have a hard time remembering any PHP web doohicky that didn't require one to disable safe mode
20:11<akerl>dingleberry: Do you not read the news?
20:11<dingleberry>yep which news?
20:11<akerl>Not Fox.
20:12<dingleberry>im not understanding what ur saying
20:14<dingleberry>is there some news of php cms's being bad that i should be reading?
20:14-!-elkingrey [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:15<seanh-ansca>anyone have a better way to do this?
20:16<chesty>seanh-ansca: yes
20:16<seanh-ansca>i guess i should explain, in reality TEMPLATE_DIR is being filled from a file
20:17<chesty>try double quotes instead of single
20:17<akerl>Or just putting the variable outside the single quotes...
20:17-!-disinpho_ [] has joined #linode
20:17<chesty>B="/home"; A="$B/urmom"
20:18<chesty>akerl: not the best idea
20:18<chesty>B="/home/i have a space in me"; A=$B'/urmom'
20:19<rnowak>urmom has a spac... nvm
20:19-!-marcopkb [] has joined #linode
20:19-!-disinpho [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:19-!-disinpho_ is now known as disinpho
20:19<rnowak>or rather... not that thing ain't having no space in it since urmom is in it!
20:19-!-maushu [~maushu@] has joined #linode
20:20<seanh-ansca>sorry, this is a better example.
20:21-!-epochwolf|2 [] has joined #linode
20:21<akerl>seanh-ansca: Not seeing how that makes sense.
20:22<seanh-ansca>i have a file that's generated by something else. that file has variables in it that i want to expand and use in another script
20:22-!-Cypher100 [] has joined #linode
20:22<chesty>you can source the file
20:23-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
20:24<seanh-ansca>chesty: didn't think of that, good idea
20:25-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:25-!-aot2002 [] has joined #linode
20:26<Cypher100>If I was hit by a ddos, will give me high bandwidth usage and make me get hit by a overage bill?
20:27<aot2002>I've setup openvpn and the client connects to the server but I cannot seem to connect to the server via ssh using the ip address of tun0 ... firewall already by default allows ssh port. Any ideas what I might be missing?
20:27<akerl>Cypher100: You'll pay for bandwidth that hits your node. But if it is impacting other nodes, linode will null route your IP
20:27<rnowak>Cypher100: either that, or you request them to null-route, or they will do it themselves if it has a large impact on other customers
20:27*rnowak shakes fist at akerl
20:28<bob2>akerl's levenshtein from caker is too small
20:28<akerl>And now I
20:28<akerl>And now I've had to google a new word.
20:30<Pryon>aot2002: does ssh's -v (or -vv) switch provide any interesting informtion?
20:31<aot2002>debug1: connect to address port 22: Connection refused
20:32<Cypher100>What's the best location for my linode :D
20:32<aot2002>I'm thinking either my server is not allowing connections on this tun0 or the vpn is connectig but not working right
20:32<Pryon>aot2002: is sshd listening on all interfaces?
20:32<aot2002>let me look
20:32<akerl>!speed | Cypher100
20:33<bob2>aot2002: pastebin output of 'sudo netstat -plnt', 'sudo iptables -L -v -n' both on server
20:33-!-cereal|Away is now known as cereal
20:33<aot2002>tcp 0 0 *:ssh *:* LISTEN
20:33<bob2>aot2002: and 'sudo tcptraceroute 22' on client
20:33<akerl>Find who you're serving content to, and then find where they have the best speedtest to.
20:34<Pryon>Why do you worry about a ddos?
20:34<navi>I know where the best place for a linode is - IN A DATA CENTER.
20:35<navi>Pryon: If you annoy the government enough, you can expect retaliation...
20:36<Cypher100>DDOS is just a worst case scenario for me
20:36<Cypher100>It can happen anywhere at anytime
20:36<navi>Cypher100: Not really
20:36<akerl>navi: Why not?
20:36-!-Bass10 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:37<navi>Cypher100: Because of the resources required, generally you have to pose some kind of threat or annoyance to someone with the resources to do the DDoS
20:37<akerl>navi: Botnets are cheap
20:37<navi>akerl: Even then, they are targeted
20:37<akerl>The fact that being targetted is unlikely, does not mean that it can't happen.
20:37<Cypher100>I just run a small gaming community
20:37<navi>They don't randomise four numbers from 0 to 255 and decide that is going to be the IP to DDoS
20:38<akerl>navi: Obviously not. We're transitioning to ipv6
20:38<navi>akerl: I wasn't saying it can't happen, I'm saying "Anywhere, Any Time" is oversimplification
20:38<byronb>not sure where to ask, but, folling this guide: only on debian 6, all goes well except saslauthd does not start so SMTP auth fails
20:38<byronb>any ideas?
20:38<akerl>byronb: What's the error when it doesn't start?
20:39<byronb>well its an error in /var/log/mail.log : Jun 29 20:15:16 li259-83 postfix/smtpd[1956]: warning: SASL authentication failure: cannot connect to saslauthd server: No such file or directory
20:39<byronb>ps aux|grep sasl returns nothing
20:39<akerl>byronb: Try to start the saslauthd server.
20:39<bob2>aot2002: can you ping it
20:39<bob2>byronb: suspect you forgot to put the saslautd socket in the chroot
20:40<bob2>byronb: or forgot to unchroot your smtpd on the submission port
20:40<byronb>start: To enable saslauthd, edit /etc/default/saslauthd and set START=yes ... (warning).
20:40-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:40<byronb>START=yes in my /etc/default/saslauthd
20:40<akerl>byronb: What does `/etc/init.d/saslauthd start` do?
20:40<Cypher100>Should I setup a LEMP or a LAMP?
20:40<byronb>gives that warning above, and no deamon start
20:40<Cypher100>Just running a small community
20:41<akerl>byronb: Which warning above?
20:41-!-jamescollins [~jamescoll@] has quit [Quit: jamescollins]
20:41<byronb>o enable saslauthd, edit /etc/default/saslauthd and set START=yes ... (warning).
20:41<aot2002>bob2, I followed the guides to the T in linode library on it
20:41<akerl>byronb: Did you consider doing that?
20:41<byronb>but nothing starts
20:41<byronb>it is set
20:41<akerl>Obviously not.
20:41<bob2>aot2002: oh
20:41<akerl>Pastebin your /etc/default/saslauthd
20:42<bob2>aot2002: not working at all then
20:42<+linbot>New news from forums: After 8 days, PHP stuck in "extended" usleep? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
20:42<bob2>Cypher100: if you have no idea and want to use php, use apache
20:42<Cypher100>ok :P
20:43<akerl>Cypher100: But configure your conf file to have sane values.
20:43<akerl>max_clients being the main issue
20:43<aot2002>bob2, no I cannot get it to ping either direction from server or to it
20:43-!-byronb [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
20:43<Cypher100>What should I set it too?
20:43<bob2>aot2002: ok
20:44<bob2>Cypher100: 10
20:45-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:45<Cypher100>Will 200GB a month be fine for a fast download server on 3 tf2 servers?
20:45-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
20:45<Cypher100>fast download via http
20:45-!-caironoleto [~caironole@] has joined #linode
20:46<akerl>Cypher100: That depends. Will it?
20:46<Cypher100>I don't know
20:46<akerl>How much bandwidth does that use?
20:46-!-Kyhwana [] has joined #linode
20:47<akerl>Cypher100: If you're unsure of the bw requirements, you'd be much better off asking others who host what you're hosting, rather than us. Unless somebody here happens to run tf2 servers.
20:48-!-caironoleto [~caironole@] has quit []
20:48<bob2>aot2002: sorry, can't help
20:48<bob2>debugging windows blah blah is too tedious
20:49-!-woremacx [] has left #linode [Leaving...]
20:49<aot2002>bob2, I figured it out I had to run Openvpn with administrator rights in windows 7
20:49<aot2002>bob2, it's pinging now
20:50-!-dingleberry [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:55<CyL>Well, while running aptitude on my VPS, it showed me a bunch of packages that were selected for installation that I did not choose, including some kernels, how do I avoid this?
20:56<bob2>deselect them
20:56<bob2>or not care
20:56<dingleberry>bob2, on php were you refering to running php in cgi mode is that better than granting permissions on folder?
20:57<CyL>bob2: well, even if it installs a new kernel?
20:57<akerl>dingleberry: cgi mode doesn't have anything to do with file permissions
20:57<bob2>CyL: who cares
20:57<bob2>it's not going to use it
20:57-!-drowe [~drowe@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:58<dingleberry>bob2 when i said to use chmod and chown on joomladirectories
20:58<bob2>dont' know what you mean
20:58<bob2>running it under cgi doesn't affect the above
20:58<bob2>letting php apps scribble on their code is trouble waiting to happen
20:59<bob2>maybe it's worth it if the alternative is no one ever updating it
20:59<akerl>dingleberry: The problem is php writing on their own files. You can run your php through mod_php, phpfpm, fastcgi, or with a monkey coping lines, and it's still the same problem
20:59-!-mu574n9 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:00<dingleberry> akerl i mean using su_php
21:00-!-laser` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:00<akerl>dingleberry: Reread the above.
21:01<dingleberry>akerl im not sure i understand - is php the problem then?
21:01-!-niftylettuce [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:01-!-jspiros [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:01*akerl prepares desk glue.
21:01<dingleberry>ps thx for bearing with me
21:02<akerl>dingleberry: The problem is code which can edit itself
21:02-!-foreverwondering [] has joined #linode
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21:02<JoeK>usps is da bomb
21:02<JoeK>mainly cause free supplies
21:02<akerl>If there is a vulnerability in your code, and an attacker exploits it, they can then write whatever they want over your code.
21:02<akerl>Which then allows them to do basically whatever they want
21:02-!-Kebn [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
21:02<dingleberry>cant they do this in any language, asp or java?
21:03<akerl>Yes. The reason that php is especially bad in this regard is people tend to write insecure code in it.
21:03-!-byronb [] has joined #linode
21:04<akerl>But the general problem with code that can edit itself is fairly universal.
21:04<dingleberry>yes i agree i see a lot of insecure code, but i think php is not the problem, its the people who code for it. any cms and language needs to be thought about in terms of security
21:05<dingleberry>for instance i work with a lot of people who use asp and it seems just as insecure if not more
21:07-!-flowbee__ [] has joined #linode
21:15<bob2>php encourages retardery
21:15*MarkJ agrees
21:15-!-takamichi [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:25<+linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Manage Development with the Mantis Bug Tracker on Fedora 14 <> || Manage Development with the Mantis Bug Tracker on CentOS 5 <>
21:27-!-xt3mp0r [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
21:29-!-disinpho [] has quit [Quit: disinpho]
21:31<amitz>perl encourages elitism.
21:32<amitz>python encourages simpleton.
21:32<encode>yeah. my perl code is so elite you can't even understand it
21:32<encode>neither can I, but that's not the point
21:32<amitz>C encourages schizophernia.
21:32<encode>java encourages ENTERPRISENESS
21:33*amitz basks in the glow of ENTERPRISE-ness.
21:33<encode>haskell encourages enforced sterilization
21:34-!-mathew [] has joined #linode
21:35<dingleberry>is it not a good idea to chown www-data on the www Folder in ubuntu, should i be using something like su_php instead?
21:35-!-drowe [~drowe@] has joined #linode
21:35<akerl>Why does su_php have anything to do with that?
21:36<dingleberry>well apparently it allows u to run the files for a website under the users name? im trying to figure out why this guy thinks its a good idea
21:37<dingleberry>and bob2 mentioned earlier that i shouldnt give advice to chown www-data on the webserver folder
21:38<dingleberry>yes you bob2
21:38<bob2>1) letting php scribble its own files is stupid
21:38<bob2>2) if you're running apps for different random people, they need to run as different unix users
21:39<dingleberry>so is it worth investing time in ispconfig?
21:39<akerl>dingleberry: Wtf does ispconfig have to do with anything?
21:40<dingleberry>hehe hope u can bare with me im new to this, but ispcconfig seems to let you run different websites for different users
21:40-!-zack_ [~zack@] has joined #linode
21:41<dingleberry>say i set up a few friends with different websites -- ur saying i should give them a unix passwd?
21:42<bob2>and no
21:42<bob2>I would not suggest using ispconfig
21:42<bob2>also would not suggest doing php web hosting for other people if you feel the need for ipsconfig
21:42-!-cyberdyn [] has joined #linode
21:42<amitz>i believe if you can give us an idea the extent of your knowledge/experience in these, we may be able to give a general direction, if possible.
21:42<dingleberry>just thought it might make things quicker no?, its either that or using puppet
21:43<cyberdyn>hello all
21:44<cyberdyn>can someone offer direction on an error I'm getting writing to wp-content/uploads ...? i've fixed this in the past but it always seems i just stumble across a solution
21:44<amitz>puppet and ispconfig are 2 different creature.
21:44<akerl>cyberdyn: What is the error?
21:44<dingleberry>well i know how to set up a webserver, email server, linux users, permissions a bit but not a lot, im not sure really what i need to learn more id be grateful for some direction. im just setting up a few sites and want to make sure theyre secure etc
21:44<aot2002>bob2, Shouldn't the server be able to connect to the client as well during a VPN connection?
21:45<bob2>sorry, can't help debug windows blahblah
21:45-!-Cypher100 [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
21:45<cyberdyn>The uploaded file could not be moved to /var/www/
21:45<akerl>cyberdyn: That'd be a permissions problem, most likely.
21:45<aot2002>bob2, I'm using a local linux client?
21:45<bob2>yay wordpress
21:45<cyberdyn>the permissions are currenlty 755
21:45<HoopyCat>remember when you were young, you shone like the sun
21:45<bob2>aot2002: ok!
21:46<bob2>anyway, no, sorry
21:46<akerl>cyberdyn: Who owns the uploads folder?
21:46<HoopyCat>shhiiiiiiinnnnnnnnneee onnnnnnnn yoooooooou craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy daemon
21:46<aot2002>bob2, no you cannot help or no it can't connect
21:46<cyberdyn>which is ..correct
21:46<dingleberry>so bob2 when u said u shouldnt chown to apache group , is there a better way?
21:46<akerl>bob2: You say so many crazy things, apparently.
21:47<bob2>must be blacking out at my keyboard a lot
21:47<akerl>cyberdyn: If that were the case, you'd be able to write to it.
21:47<cyberdyn>aker1: heh... yeah, i know. funny that, eh?
21:47<dingleberry>maybe it was meee who blaked outt
21:47<cyberdyn>aker1: that's why I'm here. :)
21:47<akerl>cyberdyn: pastebin the output of `ls -la` on that folder?
21:48<cyberdyn>ok... sorry, pastebin...? sorry for the lingo lapse...
21:48<amitz>dingleberry: assuming longer time fram to learn, i will not invest my time iin learning ispconfig.
21:48<cyberdyn> ;)
21:48<akerl>!p | cyberdyn
21:48<+linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
21:49-!-bigjocker [~ngranek@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:49<+linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
21:49<cyberdyn>feeling like 1st grade again ;)
21:49<dingleberry>yeah i have to run quite a few servers so will invest some time in puppet, it looks like what i need
21:49<cyberdyn>or 7th grade ;)
21:49-!-Mu574n9 [] has joined #linode
21:49<dingleberry>but i really would love to learn more about securing apache if im using joomla, for instance user permissions im quite weak on and they seem quite specific for a cms
21:50<dingleberry>i thought it was ok to give apache access to the webserver, thats what all the tutorials say
21:51<akerl>dingleberry: apache is the webserver. and tutorials are full of bad ideas
21:51<amitz>a general security idea is better than webserver specific tutorials.
21:51<dingleberry>i meann apache group or www-data when you chown a group of files
21:51<dingleberry>so where would u suggest to learn other than tutorials then?
21:51<akerl>dingleberry: Experience.
21:52<amitz>or hanging out in #linode, seriously.
21:52<cyberdyn>what's the login for pastebin? :)
21:53<akerl>cyberdyn: Did you read?
21:53<cyberdyn>is it my linode login :)
21:53<cyberdyn>i'm sorry
21:53<navi>read the message on the login pane
21:53<amitz>the popup window
21:53<cyberdyn>ok ;)
21:53<navi>That's a really common question, isn't it?
21:55<dingleberry>you made dingleberry cry!
21:55<cyberdyn>no slash spam was what i guessed the first time :P
21:55<cyberdyn>not as stupid as i look ;)
21:55<cyberdyn>but i need to go eat :) {crying in my soup}
21:55<cyberdyn>So... i Posted by cyberdyn on Wed 29th Jun 21:54
21:55<navi>Areful, you'll make it salty
21:56<akerl>cyberdyn: Works better if you give us the link
21:56<cyberdyn>hmm. is navi an autobot?
21:56<navi>A... what?
21:56<cyberdyn>ok.. so this is new to me guys. i haven't been on IRC since 1982
21:56<amitz>ththe sidekick of megaman
21:56<navi>I don't know who that is
21:57<cyberdyn>5500 is a really cool number. a good omen.
21:57<navi>Greek Cred -INF
21:57<navi>Greece lost all it's credit in the recession
21:57<navi>ANd now there's widespread rioting. Ho hum.
21:57<navi>DAMN MY KEYBOARD >.>
21:57<akerl>cyberdyn: And what command is it that gives you the error about writing there?
21:58<cyberdyn>aker1: i'm trying to upload a new theme into the wordpress site
21:58<akerl>cyberdyn: What user is apache running as?
21:58<navi>cyberdyn: It's not a 1
21:58<cyberdyn>navi: thx
21:58<akerl>no worries navi, I have aker1 set to highlight too.
21:58<cyberdyn>akerl... how would i find that out?
21:58<cyberdyn>i'm in as ssh.......
21:58<navi>aker1: I see.
21:58<cyberdyn>i guess that's one of the most obvious statements of the day
21:58<navi>aker1: I can't understand why anybody would confuse your name(!)
21:58<akerl>cyberdyn: `ps aux`
22:00<cyberdyn>so... /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start ...> shows "www-data"
22:00<cyberdyn>navi: agreed.
22:01<akerl>huh. I'd blame a crazy wordpress problem then
22:01<cyberdyn>aker-not-one --- yes. this has happened to me before... but i figured i'd consult the experts on this channel.
22:01<cyberdyn>now that i'm a linode.
22:03<cyberdyn>hmm. that shutdown conversation, eh. :(
22:04<akerl>cyberdyn: Not so much as "it's a weird wp problem" did. It's hard to treat those
22:04<cyberdyn>akerl... yes. agreed.
22:05<cyberdyn>i have a question pending with my fellow comrade who will check the site and very likely provide the solution... but i figured i'd consult this consul of infinite wisdom in hopes of getting a quicker answer.
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22:06<cyberdyn>but, like chinese food, i'm not feeling all that satisifed. :)
22:06<Mu574n9>Do I have IPV6 support on my Linode ?
22:06<akerl>Mu574n9: Which DC?
22:06<Mu574n9>Dallas TX
22:06<Nivex>Mu574n9: if you haven't filed a ticket to have it enabled, probably not. Check the remote access tab in th emanager
22:06<akerl>Nivex: Shouldn't take a ticket any more
22:06<@caker>you don't need a ticket - click "Enable IPv6" on your Remote Access tab
22:07<Mu574n9>Do I have to pay extra for IPv6 ?
22:07<akerl>Mu574n9: Nope
22:07<Nivex>akerl, caker: RAWK!
22:07<cyberdyn>thank you for your offers of info. i do appreciate it. :)
22:07<Mu574n9>akerl: ok.
22:08-!-febits [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
22:09<praetorian>woo google+
22:09-!-xt3mp0r_ [~xt3mp0r@] has joined #linode
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22:09-!-DJ is now known as djg320
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22:15<Mu574n9>caker: Thanks.
22:16<Mu574n9>caker: Can I use my IPv4 Address along with my IPv6 adddress ?
22:16-!-zack_ [~zack@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:19<Mu574n9>caker: Will I have to give up the IPv4 address some time in the future ?
22:20<+linbot>SleePy: Is Up -> Check if your website is up or down?
22:20<Mu574n9>caker: ok.
22:20<Mu574n9>caker: Thanks.
22:21<Nivex>caker: is enabling the DNS Manager to do slave transfers over IPv6 on The ToDo List?
22:21<@caker>Nivex: yup
22:21<Mu574n9>caker: btw, it was a pleasure talking you :)
22:21<Nivex>caker: sweetness
22:21<@caker>Mu574n9: you too :)
22:21<Mu574n9>caker: You are the founder and ceo of right ?
22:21<@caker>I am
22:21<Mu574n9>caker: I need to have a quick word in pm.
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22:41<advil0>hey guys if i cancel my account with a positive balance they'll refund my credit card, right?
22:41<JoeK>if they dont, raise a ticket
22:41<akerl>advil0: You'd probably want to open a ticket to ensure that.
22:42<akerl>I doubt they automate refunds.
22:42<advil0>I assume they would, that wouldn't be very good business for them if they didn't
22:42<JoeK>i had to ask them to refund me, but they did
22:42-!-wjwoodward [] has joined #linode
22:42<tasaro>advil0: needs to be requested on the cancellation form (it isn't automatic). there is also a $5 refund fee.
22:43<akerl>tasaro: Where's your oper magic?
22:43-!-Boss [] has joined #linode
22:43<JoeK>tasaro: i got credited $2 from linode once
22:44-!-mode/#linode [+o tasaro] by ChanServ
22:45<bob2>I got a pretty awesome vps from them once
22:48-!-Mu574n9 [] has joined #linode
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22:49<Mu574n9>caker: I have enabled IPv6.
22:49<Mu574n9>caker: Thanks for your assistance.
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22:55<Nivex>I've had my Linode for 3 years now. I probably ought to go annual.
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23:11<akerl>Who was it that had the remaining ipv4 munin graph?
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23:20<navi>akerl: Me?
23:20<akerl>Mind pastebin'ing the code?
23:21<navi>akerl: /me would be embarrassed to
23:21-!-jamescollins_ [~jamescoll@] has joined #linode
23:21<@Perihelion>Are any of you on Google+ ?
23:21<@Perihelion>Will you be my friend :(
23:21<navi>Perihelion: I haven't been accepted yet
23:22<pronto>gah, i got like three invites to that thing
23:22<navi>Can you invite others or can only google invite?
23:22<@Perihelion>I can't invite people yet (someone else invited me)
23:22<pronto>i think its open to anyone with a google+ account
23:23<pronto>because three of my friends invited me :/
23:23<navi>Because if someone /could/ invite me, I'd probably use it
23:23<navi>Knowing Google, I won't get an invite from them for months
23:23<MarkJ>I'd like to try it out too
23:23<navi>Because I'm in all the stupid categories
23:23<MarkJ>Being google they certainly have a lot of investment to power such a a product
23:24<navi>Non-US, gmail account with lots of spam that's hardly used, turned off buzz...
23:24<tjfontaine>Perihelion: yes you can akshully
23:24<Guest6278>i can invite people :o
23:24-!-Guest6278 is now known as X-LP
23:24-!-MrGlass [] has joined #linode
23:24<tjfontaine>adding people to circles, and there's a little button on the stream view on the right that pops up a dialog
23:24<navi>akerl: What bit did you want?
23:24<navi>akerl: It actually consists of a curl followed by calls to xmlstarlet
23:25<akerl>navi: Idk. I'm trying to make my munin more amusing, figured if you had the code already done, I might as well borrow it
23:25<MarkJ>what do they allow to invite, just @gmail or any addresses?
23:25<navi>akerl: I'm going to guess you don't have xmlstarlet, so it wouldn't be that useful
23:25<akerl>Ah, k
23:25<@Perihelion>tjfontaine: Yeah I checked
23:25<@Perihelion>Not there
23:26<navi>If someone /can/ invite me, feel free to msg me or something for my info.
23:26<navi>I will pay you in virtual imaginary cakes
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23:27<tjfontaine>Perihelion: weird
23:27<@Perihelion>navi: I can try I guess
23:27<akerl>Huh, it seems that my sshd doesn't actually log failed auth attempts, assuming the user exists.
23:27<@Perihelion>PM me details?
23:28<MarkJ>sounds odd akerl, I wasn't aware of an option to toggle it off either
23:28<SleePy>If somebody /can/ invite as well, you can msg me for info
23:28-!-Kyhwana [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:28<tjfontaine>if you really want to bold use *not/*
23:29<MarkJ>(without being sent an invite anyway)
23:29<akerl>It logs everything else, like if the account is locked, or doesn't exist. But if it can be logged into, it doesn't report failures once it's checking keys
23:29<navi>"Already invited? We've temporarily exceeded our capacity. Please try again soon."
23:30-!-BarkerJr [BarkerJr@2002:1802:e75d:1:1506:3673:4121:245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:32<MarkJ>that's what I saw. was that with a key?
23:33-!-orpheus [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:33<@Perihelion>navi: Nvm, it says "Sending invitations will be enabled soon!"
23:34<navi>Fruity Blergs!
23:34<navi>(The oatmeal)
23:34-!-newbie [] has joined #linode
23:34<navi>"Yum yum, blergs in your mouth!"
23:34*newbie arrives to seek wisdom from wiser heads...
23:34*navi shuts up then :x
23:34<MarkJ>Of course being in a test stage "soon" could be tomorrow or 2 months
23:35-!-advil0 [] has quit [Quit: advil0]
23:36<navi>In case anyone doesn't get "Fruity Blergs", you can see
23:36<Mu574n9>I have just enabled ipv6, is it possible to mask my IPv4 address completly ?
23:36<dcraig>like on irc?
23:37<Mu574n9>When I am on IRC a /whois should only show my ipv6 address.
23:37<dcraig>connect to an ipv6 server
23:37<tjfontaine>/connect -6
23:37<navi>Mu574n9: If you connect over IPv6 (like I am) then they'll only see the v6 address
23:37-!-JSharp [] has joined #linode
23:37<newbie>question people: got a php/mysql setup sitting on unbuntu. There could be a few other things lurking on it I'm not 100% aware of but other than some cron jobs and a SSL cert....that's all there is to that. In terms of porting it around..can I do a mysqldump, tar up all the files and I'll have a representation of that system? Which directories do I need to avoid tar'ing to avoid rodgering settings when untarring it on the new system?
23:37<@Perihelion>tjfontaine: You're a sage.
23:37<Mu574n9>Not my hostname,not my ip address.
23:38<@Perihelion>All of these years I thought I had to set the hostname to IPv6 and then connect
23:38*Perihelion dumb irl
23:38<dcraig>is there a particular reason you'd rather them see your ipv6 address instead of your ipv4 address?
23:38<Mu574n9>tjfontaine,navi: Thanks.
23:38<tjfontaine>Perihelion: heh, there's also a an irssi setting that does prefer ipv6
23:38<Mu574n9>dcraig: Aren't IPv6 supposed to be more secure than IPv4 ?
23:38<@Perihelion>Yeah but I never remember it
23:39<navi> /SET resolve_prefer_ipv6
23:39<dcraig>where'd you get that idea?
23:39<navi> /SET resolve_prefer_ipv6 ON
23:39<dcraig>ipv6 is more big and more colon-centric
23:39<tjfontaine>dcraig: because ipv6 has the ipsec of course :P
23:39<Mu574n9>dcraig: ok.
23:41<navi>me is laughing
23:41*navi is laughing, too
23:41<navi>I tripped over "Recycling bin number three" when trying to get some food from the kitchen a minute ago
23:42<Mu574n9>dcraig: So you say ipv6 has no security advantage over ipv4 ?
23:43<dcraig>I bet it'd be harder for a big botnet to ddos you because many members of the botnet probably don't have ipv6
23:43<Mu574n9>dcraig: ok.
23:43<navi>dcraig: They'd just tunnel it
23:43<akerl>Mu574n9: The security advantages of v6 over v4 have little to do with which one shows on your irc whois
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23:49<Mu574n9>akerl: I understand that.
23:50-!-ang [] has joined #linode
23:50<Mu574n9>akerl: I understood that to use ipv6, I have to connect to an irc server that supports ipv6 too.
23:50-!-cereal is now known as cereal|Away
23:51<akerl>Which oftc does.
23:51<Mu574n9>akerl: My question was that are there any security advantages of using ipv6 over ipv4 ?
23:51<Mu574n9>akerl: I understood the oftc part too.
23:52<Mu574n9>akerl: Does it prevent port probing ?
23:52<akerl>Why would it?
23:52<Mu574n9>akerl: or thather make it difficult.
23:53<akerl>They have to type a longer address.
23:53<Mu574n9>akerl: I don't know,trying to ask around from the community here.
23:53<Mu574n9>akerl: ok.
23:54<Mu574n9>akerl: Thanks for your patience :)
23:54<akerl>There are some security things built into ipv6, but it's more in the "transmission of data" side, rather than the "will make my server itself more secure" side
23:55<Mu574n9>akerl: What are those security things ?
23:55<navi>akerl: Does it slow down copying and pasting as well as typing?
23:55<akerl>navi: Yes.
23:55<navi>akerl: Awesome, I'm gonna drop IPv4 RIGHT NOW then
23:55<ajmitch>copying & pasting requires 4x more RAM
23:55<Mu574n9>akerl: A pointer to URL would be helpful..
23:56<Mu574n9>akerl: ok.Thanks.
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23:57<CERNUNN0S>Good morning, is there anyone from the Linode team available? I need a quick query answering regarding transfer speeds of your London data centre. Primary concern is peak load of the servers and the availability at those times. I wouldn't want to find that i've inadvertently caused a DDoS just by sending out a mail shot which kills the connection.
23:58<akerl>That wouldn't be a DDoS, but sure.
23:58<@Perihelion>Outbound is capped at 50Mbps, and can be raised is you consistently hit the cap
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
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23:59<@Perihelion>It was like a minute early...what gives
23:59<encode>ntp fail
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 30 00:00:00 2011