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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-07-02

---Logopened Sat Jul 02 00:00:40 2011
00:03<hawson>are there any NTP and yum repository boxes on the priavte network in GA/
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00:13<KyleXY>jed: DONG!
00:13<Hawson>the witch is dead?
00:15<HoopyCat>Hawson: yum repos, not that i know of anywhere... as for NTP, i don't think linsides is yet in atlanta. (but NTP is non-intensive enough that ntpd pointing at,, and should be fine, and it'll get you pretty close stuff)
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00:16*Hawson nods
00:16<Hawson>already using several pool addresses
00:16<Hawson>an internal yum repo would be nice though. :)
00:17<HoopyCat>dunno if there's something like apt-cacher-ng for yum
00:17<Hawson>there are modules for yum to do some cool xdelta stuff (or something similar
00:17<HoopyCat>i do, however, know i have a bed upstairs. g'nite!
00:18<tjfontaine>xdelta is pretty sweet, if it weren't for that whole memory thing
00:20<tjfontaine>but if yum needs xdelta though to get decent sized and compressed diffs, it has serious issues
00:20<Hawson>rpms are, generally, bziped internally
00:20<Hawson>or gzipped
00:20<Hawson>I don't recally
00:20<tjfontaine>both work
00:20<Hawson>there's something done to squish them down
00:21<tjfontaine>xdelta is applied to yum database or the rpms? I can't imagine there's much to be deduplicated across the rpms
00:21*Hawson shrugs
00:21*HoopyCat applies ice following ill-fated attempt to walk towards sun
00:21<Hawson>channelling zippy the pinhead?
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00:29<djg320>Last 30 Days
00:29<djg320>(2011-07-02 to 2011-06-03)
00:29<djg320>Down 15.20 GB
00:29<djg320>Up 0.57 GB
00:29<djg320>Total 15.77 GB
00:29<djg320>sorry about copy paste
00:29<djg320>Alas, I'm not as heavy of an internet user as I thought
00:29<djg320>That's almost embarassing
00:31<Hawson>or nobody cares to read your blog?
00:31<copperx>yeah, yo suck
00:32<djg320>Home usage
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00:53<davidwhite>I had to wipe the system and start over. My 2nd attempt to create a separate partition for /var and /mnt is underway. I went through and have the disk configured, and then rebooted into single-user mode, and through Lish I moved all of the contents of /var into /var-temp, then mounted 2nd partition onto /var, and moved everything in /var-temp into /var, and then I edited /etc/fstab
00:54<davidwhite>Then I tried rebooting into normal mode.... the system is failing to boot, and is dropping me into a shell.
00:54<davidwhite>Output of fstab coming shortly
00:56<davidwhite>The system is saying that I have to repair the partitions
00:57<chesty>why /dev/svdb?
00:57<davidwhite>that's a typo. good catch
00:58<davidwhite>I'll reboot into single-user mode, and fix it, and see what happens
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01:02<davidwhite>ugh.... it's not letting me - keeps dropping me into the recovery shell. This is where the Recovery - Finnix iso comes in handy, correct?
01:02<davidwhite>(mount it onto /dev/xvde?)
01:06<davidwhite>hmm.... that's not working either. I'll just rebuild the system again, I guess - I haven't done anything to it yet
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01:06<@heckman>Why not deploy the distro, create your separate disk images, boot to Finnix to copy the files over to the new disk images and edit /etc/fstab
01:07<@heckman>I *think* that will work
01:07<davidwhite>that's basically what I was doing with the single-user boot, but I made a typo which I think caused it all to go haywire
01:08<@heckman>I would have just done it all in Finnix.
01:08*heckman shrugs
01:08<@heckman>I guess single user would do the needful as well.
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01:19<+linbot>New news from forums: XServer Help on Arch Linux? in General Discussion <>
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01:25<davidwhite>Ok.... I think I'm done. Does this look right?
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01:26<@heckman>davidwhite: I guess so. Also, I believe most modern Linux distros use "/media" for mounting devices, not "/mnt". Why are you separating that to its own disk image? Nothing is really stored there.
01:27<davidwhite>I use that for local system backup purposes
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01:27<@heckman>Ah okay. I mean, it *looks* right. But I'd say make sure your devices match up with their correct disk images.
01:27<davidwhite>I realize it's not "normally" used for much. :)
01:28<davidwhite>Yup, I've double checked that! Ok, here we go then - fingers crossed
01:32<davidwhite>Worked like a charm!
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02:06<davidwhite>Ugh. I've checked and rechecked all of my settings in /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0, and my box is still not resolving to anything
02:07<chesty>davidwhite: you mean from you linode you can lookup names, you from other places you can't lookup your linodes name?
02:07<chesty>davidwhite: you mean from you linode you can't lookup names, you from other places you can't lookup your linodes name?
02:08<chesty>!fail that almost made sense
02:08<davidwhite>From my linode, I'm unable to lookup names
02:08<chesty>you have a line in /etc/resolv.conf like nameserver ?
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02:09<chesty>your /etc/resolv.conf is wrong
02:10<chesty>prefix the addresses with the word nameserver
02:10<davidwhite>ah, right
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02:13*navi has now spent over 4 hours synchronising some words to a song
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02:37<davidwhite>whew. ‌Finally have redundant nameservers! Now, to sleep, and then work on migrating Postfix on 1 machine to Zimbra on this new machine tomorrow.
02:40<KyleXY>navi: for what cause?
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02:57<navi>KyleXY: It shouldn't be taking this long
02:57<navi>The program's decided to get all crashy on me
02:57<KyleXY>navi: Heheh
02:58<navi>KyleXY: I time and embed lyrics to non english songs into their music videos to store so that I don't have to go search out the lyrics if I want to follow along/sing along/see the meaning
02:59<KyleXY>Ah, I see.
02:59<navi>KyleXY: Of course, with Japanese songs it's more awkward for me
03:00<navi>KyleXY: I have the meaning line, the romaji line and the kanji/kana line
03:00<navi>And in order to time them all, I have to time each syllable in the entire song
03:00<navi>(normally takes about 30min)
03:00<KyleXY>heh, too much work.
03:00<navi>KyleXY: It's actually quite relaxing for me, because I get to repeatedly hear the song as I do it
03:01<KyleXY>too much of a good thing is a bad thing :(
03:02<@heckman>Kind of like urmom
03:03<KyleXY>heckman: You and the night shifts, eh.
03:03<navi>THe night shift on urmom?
03:04<KyleXY>navi: Sounds like fun
03:04<@heckman>For the time being. Girlfriend moved in beginning of June. So next time the schedule is reworked I'll be requesting going to day shift (if possible)
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03:04<KyleXY>I always prefer a night shift compared to a day shift
03:04<navi>heckman: We can give you the day shift. So called, because it's a whole day. 24 hrs straight.
03:04<@heckman>KyleXY: Same. But seeing the girlfriend is difficult.
03:04<KyleXY>I'm more alert, more open to ideas.
03:04<Dharmesh>"[notice] child pid 15004 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)".
03:05<Dharmesh>i am facing still this issue
03:05<@heckman>KyleXY: So I'll be needing to make a peronal change.
03:05<Dharmesh>trying to resolve this since yesterday
03:05<Dharmesh>but no solution over this
03:05<@heckman>Dharmesh: You'll need to provide more information. What is segfaulting, what have you done to try and remedy the situation?
03:06<KyleXY>Not a fan of debugging those buggers anyway
03:06<navi>KyleXY: If you debugged a bugger you'd just be left with an er.
03:07<Dharmesh>trying to resolve this since yesterday
03:07<@heckman>Dharmesh: You'll need to provide more information. What is segfaulting, what have you done to try and remedy the situation?
03:08<navi>Uh, I've just had a feeling of...
03:08<Dharmesh>heckman:We are holding a Linode hosting and recently we have transferred our PHP/Mysql application code from old server to linode server.
03:08<pharaun>*boom* :)
03:08<Dharmesh>heckman:Now we are facing here a below issue:
03:08<navi>déjà vú
03:08<KyleXY>Errrr, you still haven't told us exactly what is Segfaulting
03:08<navi>Are those the wrong accents? I think they are
03:08<Dharmesh>heckman:When we try to upload jpeg image it does not work with imagecreatefromjpeg() GD library function and display "Page cannot be displayed" error on browser.
03:08<KyleXY>MySQL, PHP, Your Webserver?
03:08<navi>I know it has a lot, but not which
03:09<pharaun>navi: :D i never bother with accents
03:09<Dharmesh>heckman:I checked with error log and found there one notice "[notice] child pid 15004 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)".
03:09<@heckman>Dharmesh: Are you sure the correct libraries/matching versions are installed? I'm not too familiar with PHP.
03:09<pparadis>may need to install php5-gd
03:09<pparadis>or the equivalent for your distro
03:09<Dharmesh>yes GD is installed
03:10<navi>heckman: Regardless, it shouldn't SEGFAULT because if it?
03:10<KyleXY>I'm still completely lost as to exactly what is segfaulting
03:10<KyleXY>Dharmesh: Please tell me you didn't copy the applications over
03:10<sam350>Dharmesh I use gd on linode, pastebin
03:10<KyleXY>all the old binaries.
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03:10<sam350>and do ini_set('display_errors',1); at top of the offending page
03:10<Dharmesh>sam350: everything working perfectly?
03:11<sam350>perfectly man
03:11<pparadis>poorly written stuff may blow up in some cases if required libraries aren't installed, but it's true that we haven't heard what is actually segfaulting.
03:11<sam350>I create images on the fly al the time
03:11<sam350>so the page and I will run it on mine
03:11<pparadis>Dharmesh: what do your logs say?
03:11*navi draws on a buzzing insect
03:11<Dharmesh>it creates problem specially when i use imagecreatefromjpeg() fucntion
03:11<navi>I created an image on the fly!
03:11<KyleXY>pparadis: I honestly think he copied over some different binary files, probably from a different arch.
03:11<sam350>I create the image of the fly
03:11<pparadis>KyleXY: nod
03:12<sam350>he does fly well
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03:12<sam350>I will start a new job soon - sam
03:12<eyecool>this place is thumpin tonight!
03:12<pparadis>what distro is this on? forgive me for coming in late.
03:12<pparadis>Dharmesh ^
03:12<sam350>that was a little 3 line poem howd u like it
03:12<Dharmesh>what could be the sam350 in my condition?
03:12<KyleXY>pparadis: we don't know, we hardly have any information
03:12<Dharmesh>log says : [notice] child pid 27472 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
03:12<@heckman>What log?
03:13<Dharmesh>this is apache log
03:13<sam350>Dharmesh, I will tell you if it is in fact your condition if it runs on mine
03:13<KyleXY>heckman: Somewhat happy for this coming Sunday, got some Diamond seats at the baseball game :)
03:13<@heckman>KyleXY: Very nice. I'm lucky enough to have a four day weekend for the holiday. Not really doing much for the Fourth of July, tho.
03:13<KyleXY>You're lucky enough to have a job, heh, still looking for one.
03:14<sam350>where u livin KyleXY
03:14<KyleXY>sam350: Houston
03:14<sam350>well shit theres jobs there right
03:14<Dharmesh>san350 can you help me?
03:14<KyleXY>sure, but do you think I'll be caught dead in a McDonalds? heh
03:14<KyleXY>Dharmesh: Help us help you,
03:15<@heckman>KyleXY: :x
03:15<sam350>yes I can Dharmesh. navigate your internet explorer or similar softwares to and paste the offending php script
03:15<Dharmesh>i have opend this link KyleXY
03:15<sam350>KyleXY, no, I mean information technology of course
03:15<KyleXY>heckman: NJ, won't be moving down over there, heh
03:15<KyleXY>sam350: Host Gator, but they won't hire me for various reasons
03:15<@heckman>Haha, South Jersey is nice in my opinion.
03:16<KyleXY>Otherwise, hell yeah, heh.
03:16<Dharmesh>sam350:i have script which includes many resize files
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03:17<KyleXY>sam350: I already do freelancing from time to time, which is what most of that is
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03:17<pparadis>Dharmesh: did you read the information contained within the link?
03:17<navi>newbie: Greetings.
03:17<sam350>freelancing? craigslist has REAL jobs
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03:17<newbie>navi: hi come here often? :P
03:17<sam350>seriously dude there are many
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03:17<navi>newbie: I live in here
03:17<navi>newbie: They removed the door, I can't get out
03:17<newbie>anyhow...anyone here responsible for the Linode library?
03:18<KyleXY>sam350: Just waiting on some callbacks
03:18<sam350>Dharmesh if you paste the offending script I can evaluate it and stub out the parts I do not have
03:18<pparadis>newbie: do you have a concern or suggestion?
03:18<sam350>good luck to ya Kyle, they can be effin brutal
03:18<newbie>navi: heh..I better not stick around too long then myself :)
03:18<newbie>pparadis: just wanted to say they are great but just a little typo: "If you are re new to the Linux world and don't understand " in array
03:18<Dharmesh>scritpt is running fine from another server
03:19<Dharmesh>actually we are moving our code from one server to another
03:19<sam350>Kyle in my last experience, what worked was giving them a deadline as to when I need to make a decision by
03:19<Dharmesh>and we have transfered this code
03:19<Dharmesh>but now this image resizing is not working
03:19<Dharmesh>and generating this erorr
03:19<sam350>Dharmesh you do provide many excuses
03:19<pparadis>newbie: or leave a comment on the guide
03:19<KyleXY>Dharmesh: Again, help us help you, you have hardly given us any information
03:20<pparadis>Dharmesh: let _me_ be more precise. here's a subheader on the previously provided link:
03:20<newbie>pparadis: cool..didn't think it was worth gumming up the comments with that given it isn't worth while having that permanently there since it'll be fixed
03:20<pparadis>newbie: it's perfectly okay, really!
03:20<newbie>pparadis: again..good guide though..even a newbie can get them
03:20<Dharmesh>ok where can i paste the script sam350
03:20<sam350>the php which gives your condition- paste the contents of that .php into and do provide the Uniform Resource Locator (URL) to me
03:20<@heckman>newbie: F5 <3
03:21<pparadis>good god, not refresh!
03:21<Dharmesh>sam350: ok
03:21<KyleXY>newbie: As in, he probably fixed it for ye.
03:21<newbie>array: OH
03:21<pparadis>good heavens, instant service?!!?!?
03:21<pparadis>what is the world coming to?
03:21<newbie>that's why he's called heckman
03:21<pparadis>heck, man, that's rad
03:21<+linbot>Heck, man, what do I look like, a psëudøviking?
03:22<@heckman>That picture is real, btw. :x
03:22<+linbot>pparadis: WINNING.
03:22<KyleXY>heckman: Why am I not surprised
03:22<pparadis>that was before the hood flew up ;)
03:22<@heckman>Blizzard + Jeep = night of fun.
03:22<newbie>heckman: you think if I got you to work in government..some of your instant service would rub off there?
03:22<KyleXY>it's scary how my in-brain pictures are generally correct
03:22<@heckman>I made like $80 that night
03:23<@heckman>Drove around Galloway getting people unstuck.
03:23<KyleXY>heckman: was it worth it? ;)
03:23<@heckman>Dude, I was drifting in the Jeep. Do you *think* it was worth it?
03:23<sam350>80 bucks doing what
03:23<@heckman>I could have made $0 and still had fun.
03:23<pparadis>!urmom heckman
03:23<+linbot>pparadis: Yo mommas so fat, we CAN believe she ate the whole thing! (735:3/5) [umrmo]
03:23<@heckman>sam350: There was like 2 feet of snow and people were stuck. So...I was getting people unstuck.
03:23<@heckman>well, bout a foot at that point.
03:24<sam350>hah oh u r brave. Id be affraid Id get stuck
03:24<@heckman>Nah, the Cherokee took it like a champ.
03:24<pparadis>until the hood flew up.
03:24<@heckman>That was like...the next day. Still have no idea how that happened.
03:24<@heckman>Ice I guess.
03:24*heckman shrugs
03:24<pparadis>it was obviously the Hot Pockets Effect.
03:26<newbie>heckman: whilst you are on the "instant service gig", you may want to also look at the link "Using Rdiff-backup with SSHFS" in - not sure if it links to what it says it does?
03:26<newbie>kylexy: "..fixed it for ye." where forth art thou learned thy english?
03:27<pparadis>should go here: <-- heckman
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03:28<Dharmesh>sam350 :
03:30<Dharmesh>sam350 :
03:31<Dharmesh>this is the code i have used
03:31<newbie>pparadis: I see you wrote that guide. quickie: when would you use rdiff-backup vs rsync?
03:32<pparadis>different purposes.
03:32<pparadis>rsync provides a mirror, while rdiff-backup provides incremental, differential backups.
03:32<pparadis>it's honestly a great piece of software.
03:32<newbie>pparadis: rsync also increments?
03:32<pparadis>no, rsync provides a mirror.
03:33<pparadis>rsync will copy the changes between two data sets.
03:33<navi>I think there's confusion here about the term 'incremental'
03:33<pparadis>but you cannot use rsync to recover something as it was say 5 days ago.
03:33<newbie>pparadis: sorry..I better get my terminology right. What I mean is yes, rsync mirrors but it can do it incrementally?
03:33<Dharmesh>sam350 : are you there?
03:34<pparadis>newbie: think of it this way. rsync is a mirroring tool. when you run it, it syncs copy A to copy B.
03:34<pparadis>rdiff-backup gives you the ability to recover from a previous sync.
03:34<newbie>pparadis: versions?
03:34<pparadis>you can recover as of 5 days ago, 2 weeks ago, etc.
03:34<pparadis>provided you have those copies.
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03:34<pparadis>you can also purge stuff older than X days.
03:35<KyleXY>On another note
03:35<KyleXY>Amazon scares me now :(
03:35<pparadis>KyleXY: as opposed to before?
03:35<newbie>pparadis: hmmm..I probably don't need something quite that sophisticated given I'll be having static files and dated dumps of MySQL on a mirror?
03:36<KyleXY>pparadis: well, I called them up to get a password changed on my account
03:36<KyleXY>told them my email, my name
03:36<KyleXY>my address
03:36<pparadis>newbie: depends entirely on whether you think you might ever make a mistake and not realize if for a few days.
03:36<KyleXY>and that the card with a visa gift card
03:36<pparadis>newbie: are you subscribed to the linode backup service?
03:36<KyleXY>and the rep told me "OK!" and changed the password for me :
03:36<newbie>pparadis: i thought about it but as far as I can tell it is a total system snapshot?
03:36<KyleXY>newbie: correct
03:37<KyleXY>you can't pull certain files
03:37<pparadis>it is indeed, but it's quite fast and doesn't take your linode down.
03:37<KyleXY>you are better off right a script to rsync stuff off probably
03:37<pparadis>KyleXY: i'd honestly say both are an excellent approach. linode backups are great for quick recovery, and they're quite flexible. offsite backups are always recommended as well.
03:37<pparadis>you can never have too many backups.
03:38<pparadis>the thing about the linode backup services is that it's automatic, and doesn't require any configuration.
03:38<KyleXY>pparadis: Shame I don't have the money for the backup services.
03:38<sam350>Dharmesh, please attempt to run these lines on your server
03:38<newbie>pparadis, kylexy: yeh..and that's why it may not be appropriate for what I want..I wouldn't want to do "restore" if say I have only one table to fix..sure I'd fix it but then I'd lose all the data that changed in the time since that backup
03:38<pparadis>newbie: you don't have to restore to the same linode.
03:39<pparadis>you can either resize images down to make room for a restore to the same linode, or you can restore to a new linode, get what you need, delete the linode, and you only pay for a day's worth of that linode.
03:39<sam350>I do have successful run of your code and the basic version I placed in the
03:39<pparadis>newbie: for a linode 512, that's something like $0.65.
03:39<pparadis>and given that you shouldn't (hopefully) have to do so very often, it's honestly extremely cheap insurance.
03:40<newbie>pparadis: ahh..nice idea (of course you guys would have thought of that). I know I'm over engineering but I'm wanting to have backups more frequent than hourly. Hence me looking into rsync to another linode
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03:40<pparadis>newbie: i'd _really_ recommend something to go alongside rsync. if you jack up your system and the backup runs before you realize it, you'll be screwed if all you have is a mirror of that system.
03:41<newbie>oops..not more frequent than hourly but more frequent than daily (which backups only go up to)
03:41<sam350>do servers ever have RAID setup? i think thats what you need newbie
03:41<pparadis>i seriously recommend both in your case.
03:41<pparadis>sam350: RAID is _not_ a replacement for backups.
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03:41<sam350>but might make the case for less often backup
03:42<pparadis>no, it doesn't.
03:42<sam350>is what my thought was
03:42<sam350>how come not
03:42<navi>sam350: Not in the instance of accidentally deleting or overwriting a file
03:42<@heckman>sam350: THe only replacement for backups are more backups.
03:42<pparadis> <-- please see, along with a lot of other resources.
03:42<KyleXY>heckman: You're telling me, I have at least 5 different copies of the backups
03:43<@heckman>sam350: RAID is awesome. It does wonders for keeping a system online in case of a drive failing. However, *all* hardware can fail.
03:43<pparadis>s/can/will at some point/
03:43<newbie>pparadis: hmmm..i see your point. perhaps rdiff-backup is the way to go then? you can run more than sync's? Basically, I'm after a mirror of a linode from which I can recover any stuffed files/DBs but also have as a backup server in case something disasterous happens to the original's data centre
03:43<Dharmesh>sam350: still same issue
03:44<pparadis>newbie: you can run something like rdiff-backup just as often as you would rsync. it will only transfer changed files, and you're only limited by disk space on the receiving end.
03:44<Dharmesh>it display page can not be displayed
03:44<sam350>can you link me
03:44<Dharmesh>its my local server
03:44<pparadis>so you could back up a ton of stuff to your home network, for example, but restoring a lot of data to your linode would likely be slow.
03:44<sam350>what OS
03:45<pparadis>hence the great combination of linode backups and rdiff-backup
03:45<pparadis>Dharmesh: what version?
03:45<sam350>what is production environ
03:45<pparadis>Dharmesh: you are not providing _any_ information, and it is incredibly difficult to help you.
03:45<Dharmesh>Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
03:45<sam350>have you placed the .php on the server
03:45<Dharmesh>no but its creating problem
03:45<sam350>it is very simple and quick to do
03:45<sam350>then we can know if your production environment has same problem
03:46<sam350>most likely need to install a library
03:46<Dharmesh>sam350 : both the environ ments are same
03:46<newbie>pparadis: to be clear - a frequent rsync simply gives you a mirror which will be sooner rather than later reflective of any really bad happenings on your source linode. therefore, rdiff-backup is better to run since it'll have earlier versions you can fall back on?
03:47<pparadis>Dharmesh: does "dpkg -l" match up on both environments?
03:47<sam350>Dharmesh but they are not identical images are they? I can have ubuntu freshly installed missing many packages
03:47<pparadis>newbie: yes.
03:47<sam350>and a server with everything on it installed correctly
03:47<sam350>they are same environments? or no?
03:47<pparadis>dpkg -l <-- will give the answer.
03:48<sam350>Dharmesh it is a trick question
03:48<pparadis>yep. if one works and the other doesn't, they're not the sam.e
03:48<pparadis>same, even.
03:48<pparadis>of course, dpkg won't account for anything that was compiled.
03:49<newbie>pparadis: cheers. And since I do want to have a backup server I can switch work to if disaster hits the original linode's datacentre..the solution may be: call rdiff-backup frequently via cron to backup to backup-server (which has to have more diskspace than original server to allow for versioning)?
03:49<pparadis>newbie: correct!
03:49<Dharmesh>yes i can surely say its same
03:50<pparadis>Dharmesh: if one environment works, and the other does not work, they are not the same.
03:50<newbie>pparadis: cheers...darn..doing to have to cough up more dough for the diskspace then..
03:50<Dharmesh>no on both the environ ment is not working
03:50<pparadis>newbie: it's peace of mind. it's worth it.
03:50<pparadis>Dharmesh: well then, my apologies, it is indeed busted in both places then.
03:51<Dharmesh>i am recieving same issue since yesterday that is regard seg faults
03:52<pparadis>Dharmesh: what changed in your environment?
03:53<newbie>pparadis: so is that why you were saying rsync & linode-backup are a good combo? rsync gives you an up to date back-up server ready to go in case of original-server disaster whilst linode-backup in some ways is "versioning" the original server?
03:53<Dharmesh>pparadis : how could i know at the moment?
03:53<Dharmesh>i may made many changes
03:54<pparadis>newbie: the linode backups service lets you restore from various previous snapshots, but if you want higher than one day resolution you need to be using rdiff-backup along with it to send backups somewhere else (to a local backup server, for example). i would recommend both the linode backup service and rdiff-backup.
03:54<pparadis>set it up, give it a go, and there you have it.
03:55<pparadis>Dharmesh: do you follow the practice of making changes in a dev or test environment first, testing the changes thoroughly, and then making the same changes in production?
03:56<Dharmesh>pparadis : but at both the environment its not working so first i need to check with my local server
03:57<pparadis>Dharmesh: my question was specifically regarding your development practices. i asked if you only make changes in your dev environment first, then apply the changes to production only when it was already proven to work in the dev environment.
03:58<newbie>ericoc: pparadis: probably a "how long is a piece of string?" question but if I'm wanting to us rdiff-backup to version a server, I should have double the amount of space on the backup-server compared to the original server?
03:58<Dharmesh>yes local server is my devlopment server and then i need to correct the things on production
03:58<pparadis>Dharmesh: i'm really asking how your production environment got messed up if you are supposed to be testing things in the dev environment before making changes in production.
03:58<pparadis>newbie: that's a fair estimate.
03:59<sam350>Dharmesh I would save my config files like php.ini and then uninstall php and reinstall according to the linode library
03:59-!-AlexC_ [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
04:00<+linbot>New news from linodelibrary: Ruby on Rails with Apache on Debian 6 (Squeeze) <>
04:01<newbie>pparadis: cheers. hhmmm..see what you mean. looks like buying the additional diskspace for that is more expensive than linode-backup
04:01<pparadis>newbie: probably is :)_
04:01<pparadis>i'd still recommend sending backups somewhere offsite as well, but the linode backup service works quite well.
04:01<pparadis>sure, that'd work.
04:02<newbie>but isn't linode ;)
04:02<navi>Didn't S3 just become cheaper?
04:02<pparadis>and you'd pay pennies a month for storage, until you needed it of course.
04:02<navi>Well, data in is $0
04:02<navi>So it's great for backup now
04:02<pparadis>navi: depends on your desired redundancy.
04:03<pparadis>but yes, that's a very viable "last ditch" place to store backups.
04:03<pparadis>it would be the "meteor hit the datacenter" option.
04:04<navi>20GB of reduced redundancy storage with S3 is $1.86
04:04<pparadis>that's a fine place to ship offsite backups.
04:05<navi>Or un-reduced redundancy for $2.80
04:05<navi>And since all data in is $0...
04:05<navi>You just pay when you want to restore, and the first 1GB out every month is free too?
04:05<newbie>pparadis: linode -backups - daily = yesterday's snapshot, weekly = whatever day I specified's snapshot, manual snapshot = the one I take now. How many snapshots can I store?
04:06<pparadis>well, i'd frankly pay the rate for the increased redundancy, but i also ship backups down to a host with RAID-10 on my LAN.
04:06*newbie worried about earthquake hitting data centre since that's more likely
04:06<navi>pparadis: I wouldn't pay for the increased redundancy, given that this is a backup of everything else
04:06-!-TIBS02 [~TIBS01@] has quit []
04:07<pparadis>navi: i'm paranoid :)
04:07<pparadis><-- has learned to be paranoid
04:07<navi>pparadis: P( Linode failure n Linode Backup failure n Amazon failure ) = ~0?
04:07*pparadis sez: as soon as you think anything is impossible, it happens.
04:07<newbie>that's a whole stack of badness
04:07<rnowak>pparadis is alive \o/ a great start of yet another debian appreciation day
04:08<navi>Particularly if I chose a US S3 with a UK Linode?
04:08<pparadis>rnowak: \o
04:08<navi>The likelihood of a failure between continents - it can't be a power failure or storm or something
04:08<pparadis>now, if everything in that list is down, i'm going for my guns, not my backups, because my primary concern will be making sure i have enough ammo for whatever might be coming next.
04:08<pparadis>but still.
04:08<rnowak>damn pesky zombies
04:09<navi>pparadis: If that extra $1 stops you being paranoid, I'd be willing to concede.
04:09<navi>$1 is a frankly cheap way to not be paranoid
04:09<pparadis>i love cheap insurance.
04:09<nohh>unless the dollar is watching me, with its all-seeing eye
04:09<navi>All the stuff you could pay for cameras and binoculars and stuff
04:09<navi>Or calming drugs
04:09<rnowak>would you care for this zombie insurance, 49.99 only at this time?
04:10<pparadis>newbie: manual snapshops replace manual snapshots.
04:10<newbie>pparadis: so I'll only have 3 snapshots to call on at any given time?
04:11<pparadis>"There are four backup slots: Three of the slots are executed and rotated automatically: a daily backup, a 2-7 day old backup, and an 8-14 day old backup. The fourth backup slot is a user-initiated snapshot and remains in place until another user-initiated snapshot is taken."
04:11<rnowak> ... *stares*
04:11<pparadis> <-- source
04:11<pparadis>rnowak: _yes_
04:12-!-zenit [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:12<pparadis>rnowak: there's a most excellent PDF floating around with fun pictures, ala airline safety card style.
04:12<rnowak>that's... amazing
04:12<pparadis>also from the CDC.
04:12<rnowak>our boring swedish version of the cdc has no fun factor at all :<
04:12<nohh>it's about time the US Government is doing something to keep me safe in the event of a zombie apocolypse
04:13<pparadis>damn right.
04:13-!-AlexC_ [] has joined #linode
04:13<nohh>wasting all that money on swine flu when it's the walking dead we need to be worried about
04:14<newbie>pparadis: cheers..can't have too much documentation on zombie survival (oh..and thanks for linode-backup link ;) )
04:14<navi>What a complete non-event swine flu was
04:14<pparadis>newbie: <3
04:14<navi>At one point the news was projecting that it would kill 5% of the population or something
04:14<rnowak>navi: *the news*
04:15<pparadis>all the rumors fit to sell.
04:15<rnowak>unfortunately there's also a few "experts" which really like fueling the media since they get air time
04:15-!-TIBS01 [~TIBS01@] has joined #linode
04:15-!-anticide [~textual@] has joined #linode
04:15<newbie>navi: it was one of those non-event vs non-event because of preparations situations
04:16<pparadis>well, partly. biological models are always fun to predict.
04:16<pparadis>it's a bit like the stock market in some respects.
04:16-!-zenit [] has joined #linode
04:17<nohh>pretty sure swine flu would've been a non-event anyway, but it's good they get practice preparing for something if it turns into something like another spanish flu
04:17<pparadis>lots and lots and lots of variables. tune one thing, everything changes.
04:17<newbie>we are overdue for a "spanish flu"
04:17<pparadis>newbie: _yes_
04:17<rnowak>nohh: not sure how you can say that; we've had pandemics before which have killed millions
04:17<rnowak>exactly ^
04:17<pparadis>newbie: that flickr link is....
04:17<+linbot>pparadis: Winning. Everyday.
04:18<navi>pparadis: The stock market is a silly thing
04:18<nohh>mortality rates of people with swine flu versus people with regular flu, and the rate of infection.. neither were that out of line with normal influenze which no one really panics over
04:18<pparadis>navi: i completely agree. but financial markets in general are a necessary silliness.
04:18<pparadis>nohh: but that doesn't make good news.
04:19<rnowak>it *was* more potent than the normal flu, though.
04:19-!-anticide [~textual@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:19<pparadis>rnowak: for certain groups.
04:19<rnowak>sure, but we're talking of the general population not selective groups, so as a whole, it was more potent
04:19<navi>pparadis: The stock market is a load of people controlling money, and whoever chickens out first is the winner
04:20<nohh>the flu virus always varies though
04:20<pparadis>navi: yes, that's the human condition in a nutshell :)
04:20<navi>pparadis: And then everyone else follows suit and then prices plummet
04:20<rnowak>how's pparadis been otherwise, all good? Not seen you on in ages
04:20<pparadis>rnowak: overall mortality per capita wasn't substantially higher is the point i'm making.
04:20<navi>And then investment analysts...
04:21<newbie>navi: agreed. silly situation. It's like..oh look..prices are falling..I better not go shopping then!
04:21<pparadis>navi: just another market on top of a market, really.
04:21<navi>If they change the rating on a stock, it can affect the stock's price, even though the company the stock represents isn't doing anything better or worse than it was yesterday
04:21<pparadis>this is why long term investments are generally okay, and day trading is for guys who like to gamble.
04:22<pparadis>the alternative to long term investing is a cabin in the woods in the middle of nowwhere and lots of ammo.
04:22<pparadis>because if you believe in the eventual collapse of world markets across the globe, you're going to be better off with the ammo in a remote location.
04:22<newbie>..and an internet connection so you can still play with your node..
04:22<pparadis>well yes :)
04:23<newbie>..and wax lyrical about zombies..
04:23*newbie wonders if zombies use facebook?
04:23<newbie>oh wait...that's why it's for..
04:23<navi>newbie: Nope, they use brainsbook
04:23<+linbot>Hobbsee: *click*
04:23*newbie hands navi award for worse pun
04:23<+linbot>*BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
04:23*linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
04:24<+linbot>pparadis: Point (0.73100695, 0.46338849) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 98949 of 125660 (π ≈ 3.149737386598758 - 0.008144733008965). http://π
04:24<rnowak>congratulations, you no longer have to worry about zombies
04:24<nohh>why does that pi calc run so slowly
04:24<navi>!supa1337 [pi]
04:24<+linbot>navi: Po;|\|+ (0.41995779, 0.36358546) 1;3z \/\/;+|-|;|\| +|-|3 |_||\|;+ <;|2<13. |-|;+z: 98950 of 125661 (π ≈ 3.149744152919363 - 0.008151499329569). |-|++p://π.|-|oopy<@.<o/\/\/
04:25<pparadis>rnowak: doing fine, thanks.
04:25<rnowak>pparadis: great to hear \o/
04:25<pparadis>and headed off to bed \o
04:25<navi>!rot13 [supa1337[pi]]
04:25<+linbot>navi: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
04:25*pparadis zZzZzZzZz
04:25*newbie thinks conversations are a wonderful thing..all this zombie talk from him just asking about rsync...
04:25<navi>Why can't it do that?
04:26<nohh>!rot13 ;|\|/0.41
04:26<+linbot>nohh: ;|\|/0.41
04:26<nohh>!rot13 π
04:26<+linbot>nohh: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
04:26<nohh>there ya go
04:27<navi>We know how to break linbot now
04:27<+linbot>navi: (rot13 <text>) -- Rotates <text> 13 characters to the right in the alphabet. Rot13 is commonly used for text that simply needs to be hidden from inadvertent reading by roaming eyes, since it's easily reversible.
04:27<navi>I didn't mean to push up/enter.
04:27<navi>I was trying to close this window. What's the key combo to leave screen, again?
04:28<navi>C-a... d?
04:28<nohh>just press the power button on your computer
04:28<navi>nohh: That wouldn't stop screen
04:28<Hobbsee>navi: if you do it right, it will ;)
04:29<rnowak>what, you mean you do not have a button which when pressed destroys all your computers' data?
04:29<navi>Given that pushing my power button will just drop me from ssh, when I get back into my linode, screen will still be running irssi
04:30*navi wonders...
04:30<navi>As of now, 50 TLDs still don't have IPv6.
04:30<navi>When you buy your own (like .urmom), will THEY have it?
04:30<navi>basically what I'm asking is, does .urmom have IPv6?
04:31<rnowak>only takes one bit to address her, so unlikely
04:31<nohh>you nibbled her bits?
04:32<navi>Wow, RIPE have issued 5% of their remaining IPs in the past half month
04:32-!-mig5 [] has joined #linode
04:32<navi>I wonder what will actually happen when they run out?
04:32<nohh>Widescale Panic
04:32<navi>or, at least, when companies can't get the IPs they want
04:32<navi>Should I go to my log cabin with a shotgun, like I should if all the global markets go wrong?
04:32<nohh>i just want my IP to spell something cool when typed on a keypad
04:33<rnowak>zombie apocalypse
04:33<navi>Zomb-IP IPcalypse
04:33<nohh>Hopefully Madagascar will firewall its ports
04:34<navi>Nothing will get in if they do
04:34<navi>Did madagascar have any swine flu?
04:34<nohh>i dont know I think they'd need people first
04:34<newbie>rnowak: not as efficient as a one-button job..but more fun..
04:34<navi>And less movies about animals in zoos?
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04:36<newbie>pparadis: u still there or counting sheep?
04:36<nohh>Im pretty sure Madagascar had nothing to do with those movies
04:37<newbie>what? they don't have talking-singing animals? better cancel my trip then..
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04:44<nohh>they might, i've never actually been
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04:47<nohh>oh boy, godaddy being sold to some private equity firms
04:48<navi>nohh: good or bad thing?
04:49<nohh>heh i would say bad but it's hard to say without knowing the details
04:52<nohh>PE firms are all about the bottom line.. say what you will about Bob Parsons, he at least cared about the company
04:52<sam350>what would be your first thought if you wanted to get a list of the requests that are made when a single request is made, without digging thru fiddler/charles output
04:52*heckman is tempted to transfer his domains to
04:52<nohh>sam350: firebug net tab
04:53<@heckman>Chrome dev tools
04:53<sam350>ok but I want to do it programatically and pipe output to grep
04:53<nohh>or chrome network tab, sure.. or safari's
04:54<sam350>and btw, there are requests which Fiddler/Charles shows, which is not in the chrome network tab!
04:55<sam350>isnt there something I can do from the command line
04:56<nohh>well, would need something that parses the html and runs the javascript if you wanted accuracy... or get the packet sniffer to output something somehow
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04:56<nohh>idk anything off the top of my head
05:05<sam350>tcpdump -i en1 | grep whatimlookingfor
05:05<sam350>then go make your requests
05:05<sam350>boom done
05:07<nohh>im curious what you're looking for now
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05:08<sam350>are u a cop
05:08<sam350>ya gotta tell me
05:08<nohh>do you know any cops smart enough to sit in a Linode community support IRC channel
05:09<sam350>now I think you're a cop
05:09<jaskal>better question, do you any *smart* cops? :p
05:09<nohh>well whatever
05:10<nohh>they just have to be smarter than the criminals, which usually isnt a very high bar
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05:12<sam350>nohh where ya from? im in califonria
05:12<sam350>cali forn i a
05:16<sam350>sounds like a place a cop would live
05:18<nohh>there's lots of em here, probably in cali too
05:18<sam350>do u know the dude from houston in here
05:20-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep]
05:20<nohh>uh no? There's 430 people in here
05:21<sam350>dude was in here a few hours ago
05:21<sam350>we were talkin about jobs in dallas
05:21<amitz>i know a dude from houston.
05:21<mig5>must be him.
05:21<nohh>yeah houston is a pretty small town
05:21<chesty>amitz: is his name pete?
05:21<sam350>yep houstin it was
05:21<sam350>not pete
05:22<sam350>my irc scrollback was set to 3000
05:22<sam350>thats not nearly enough
05:23<amitz>chesty: it's peter, pete must be his nick name!
05:24<@heckman>You are talking about KyleXY
05:24<nohh>KyleXY was who you were talking to -- that guy is a cop
05:24<amitz>we used to dig a tunnel to forth worth's gold reservoir.
05:26<sam350>holy shit you hear that nohh
05:26<sam350>o u said it.
05:26<sam350>whatta coincidence hes a cop
05:26<sam350>but seriously tho, he was talkin bout IT job
05:27<sam350>so what does a cop do in IT
05:27<mig5>same as the rest of us
05:27<nohh>trying to trick you into revealing something
05:27<mig5>look at porn
05:28-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has joined #linode
05:28<@heckman>chesty: Is it just me or is Google+ missing "Groups". Kind of like a fan page.
05:28<amitz>no need of trickery people, just ask mme diirectly.
05:28<sam350>is 143 gb a lot to store
05:29<nohh>Google's Fan pages are called websites
05:31<amitz>heckman: i thought that's suppose to be google advantage over facebook?
05:32<amitz>which i couldn't find.
05:32<sam350>noone knows if 100+gb is kind of a lot to host huh
05:33<nohh>depends sam, it's a lot for an individual, not a lot for a company
05:35<sam350>is the killer going to be transferring it or just storing it? I've only stored a few GB on my s3 accounts
05:35<nohh>would be $34.11 per month to store 143gb + do 143GB out on S3
05:36<nohh>not counting their weird obnoxious per request fee
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05:46<sam350>mmm hmmmm
05:47<sam350>thanks for doin the math on that officer
05:47<sam350>I preciate it
05:47<usicow>Hi guys, I just signed up for a new linode (my 3rd for various clients) and we didnt get the +25% disk space.. did we miss out or something? :(
05:47<sam350>I have heard some strange stuff about amazon
05:48-!-walterheck [~walterhec@] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep]
05:48<sam350>I hear they buy used hard drives from anywhere they can find them, of almost any size
05:48<sam350>that sounds crazy to me
05:48<sam350>i dont work for em cant help ya usicow but Ive never gotten even close to my limit
05:49-!-sam350 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:49<amitz>any bank in any country provides API to download statement and/or do transaction?
05:50-!-sam350 [] has joined #linode
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06:20<czr_>amitz, yes. there are even ones that use webservices and such
06:20<czr_>financial transactions have had automation capabilities over here for the last 15 or so years
06:21<amitz>a secret key they generated for us, or a public private key on both sides?
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06:35<omy>i.e username/password)
06:35<omy>Hi all.
06:35<omy>Anyone still up
06:35<rnowak>no, the entire world is sleeping
06:36<omy>Are you guys familiar with Wordpress installs on Linode?
06:37<nohh>not personally
06:37<rnowak>that'd pretty much be like a wordpress install anywhere else
06:37<omy>ok, well when I installed the MYSQL-server, I didnt create any databases
06:38-!-MissionCritical [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:38<rnowak>what's the problem you're having?
06:38<omy>Do I need to create a database within MYSQL for Wordpress first and than supply those credentials to the Wordpress install config page?
06:39<omy>Or does Wordpress do that by itself if I just enter the base mysql credentials into the config page?
06:39<rnowak>I am not sure if you *have* to, but if you don't, and if wordpress supports it, you'd have to supply it the root password, which I wouldn't do anyway. So I'd say, yes.
06:39<omy>ok, I figured. I didnt want to give wordpress my MYSQL root password. thanks
06:39<rnowak>Just an empty database, with privileges set, and it should be happy
06:40<omy>thanks many :-)
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06:50<omy>Whoo-HOO!! Success! Thanks mowak. :-D
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07:31<John>hi all ...
07:32<John>just upgraded from debian lenny to squeeze on my node and rebooted. Now it looks like there is a problem resolving domain names ... anyone know what might be going on?
07:33<mig5>John: got an example you can pastebin?
07:34<John>for example when logged in using linode console, when I type in ping, I get ping: unknown host
07:34<mig5>is there anything in your /etc/resolv.conf ?
07:36<John>yes... it has the following entries:
07:36<John>domain search nameserver nameserver nameserver
07:37<mig5>not sure if that's formatted strangly, but all those lines should be on separate lines. might be easier to pastebin it..
07:37<John>yes they are on seperate lines ... how do i pastebin it
07:38<mig5>you can use in future
07:39<mig5>anyway, you are using the console.. are you sure your server has an IP.. sounds like your networking isn't working
07:39<John>okay thank you
07:39<mig5>can you ping any IPs from the linode, etc
07:39<John>it was working fine until i did the upgrade to squeeze
07:39<AlexC_>John: those nameservers seem borked. I get nothing from them
07:40<AlexC_>$ dig +noall +answer @
07:40<AlexC_>John: try removing those nameservers, and set and
07:40<rnowak>is what that IP address is
07:42<rnowak>verify that networking is up before doing anything
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07:44<John>how do I verify if networking is up?
07:44<rnowak>11:39:48 rnowak: `ifconfig`
07:44-!-omy [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
07:44<rnowak>just type ifconfig as root, or sudo ifconfig
07:45<AlexC_>s/ifconfig/ip addr
07:45<rnowak>you forgot a slash
07:45<John>when i type in ifconfig I get nothing at all
07:46<rnowak>you did it again
07:46<AlexC_>yes that is true .... it's Saturday :P
07:46<AlexC_>John: try `ip addr`
07:47<John>getting command not found
07:47<rnowak>are you root, or are you issuing sudo?
07:47<John>also looks like I can't connect to the node using ssh
07:48-!-John[a] [~John@] has joined #linode
07:48<John>logged in as root using linode console
07:48<rnowak>ip addr, or ifconfig give you command not found?
07:49<AlexC_>John: `ls /sbin | wc -l`
07:50<rnowak>which package is ip in again... the name is a bit unfortunate when trying to find that out :p
07:50<AlexC_>iproute2 iirc
07:50<John>when I just type in ip addr, I get this
07:50<rnowak>yep, that'd be it - known as iproute in the repo
07:51<mig5>John: have you attempted to reboot the linode since you upgraded it to squeeze.
07:51<AlexC_>John: we don't mean for you to actually type the backticks!
07:51<John>yes I just did a couple of times
07:51<rnowak>well, he did it without later on
07:51<John>oh okay
07:51<rnowak>and his interface is down
07:51<John>ip addr is working when just typed in
07:52<rnowak>what happens if you run: ip link set eth0 up
07:53<John>returns nothing and networking looks like it is still down
07:54<AlexC_>the output of `ip addr` did not change?
07:54<John>no it still lists everything as down
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07:55<AlexC_>John: `service restart networking`, then also `cat /etc/network/interfaces`
07:55<AlexC_>sorry, `service networking restart`
07:56<John>typing in service networking restart returns nothing at all
07:57<rnowak>pastebin the output from the last command AlexC_ suggested above
07:59<rnowak>`cat /etc/network/interfaces`
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08:02<rnowak>hmm that looks right
08:02<rnowak>see if perhaps ifconfig spits out more information, no idea: ifconfig eth0 up
08:04<John>no.. returns nothing at all
08:04<rnowak>hmm, perhaps the dhcp client is deadeded
08:04<AlexC_>John: I always advise static configuration
08:04<AlexC_> .... give that a go
08:05<John>but just typing ifconfig returns
08:07<John>okay will try setting up a static configuration
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08:32<John>what is thu best way to edit text files in linode console?
08:32<rnowak>you'll hear opinions more than anything, but for a beginner without time to learn something better, I'd recommend nano
08:32<rnowak>otherwise my personal preference is Vim
08:33<navi>vim vim vim
08:34<navi>or emacs(!)
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08:34<John>opened text file in nano ... looks like I can't use the arrow keys to move around
08:34<rnowak>he asked for an editor, not operating system navi !
08:35<rnowak>John: you should be able to; are you using LISH's webinterface, or an ssh client?
08:35<John>looks like the web interface
08:35<rnowak>I'd recommend you connect to it using an ssh client
08:35<rnowak>the web interface is... quirky.
08:36<John>can no longer access node using ssh now though
08:36<rnowak>John: no, you'd ssh to the host your linode is on, and access the console that way
08:37<rnowak>the required information is on the same tab as where you launched the web interface lish
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08:37<john2>sorry ... missed what you said last
08:37<rnowak>12:36:47 rnowak: John: no, you'd ssh to the host your linode is on, and access the console that way
08:37<rnowak>12:37:00 rnowak: the required information is on the same tab as where you launched the web interface lish
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08:41<john2>okay... much better interface now
08:41-!-John [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
08:46<john2>and how do i save a file in nano?
08:46<rnowak>ctrl+o, I think - should tell you on the bottom
08:47<rnowak>it will ask for filename, just hit enter
08:47<john2>got it ... thank you
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08:55<john2>configured for static ip, but when I do a ping on the gateway address, returns network is unreachable
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08:56<AlexC_>quick question, can anyone get to ?
08:57<okrad>works for me
08:58<AlexC_>I've just been tweaking my Apache settings and using 'ab' from my local home computer here to test, and now I can no longer access any of my websites over HTTP :P
08:58<AlexC_>potentially ISP thought I was trying to DOS something and blocked me?
08:59<chesty>has your node oom'd?
09:00<AlexC_>no, I'm logged in via SSH and all is resonsive perfectly fine. Got plenty of memory left (htop is running to view)
09:00<mig5>rate limiting on your node's firewall?
09:01<mig5>time to do some tcpdumps and take the mystery out of it
09:01<AlexC_>no fail2ban ... though it's all working now
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09:01<okrad>AlexC_: try telnetting to port 80 and run "GET /"
09:01<okrad>see if anything comes up
09:02<HoopyCat>going through some sort of NAT at home? mine will usually go all-whacked after i run ab
09:02<AlexC_>HoopyCat: ah, yes that could be it
09:02<AlexC_>well, I now know how to kill a BT Home Hub :P
09:02-!-JSharp [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:03<HoopyCat>this message brought to you in part by the Crusade for An End-To-End Internet
09:04<AlexC_>that would be delicious
09:08-!-marcopkb [] has joined #linode
09:11-!-omy [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
09:11-!-omy [] has joined #linode
09:11<HoopyCat>The Crusade for An End-To-End Internet: Bringing the content to you.
09:15<omy>Is anyone currently using ispconfig3?
09:15<AlexC_>HoopyCat: haha
09:16<omy>@HoopyCat: that poor little girl... o.O
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09:56<Daevien>mental note - rebooting a server you are using as a ssh gateway to your home network doesn't help the other session through it :p
09:57-!-mcurry [~mcurry@] has joined #linode
09:57<mcurry>any admins here?
09:58<akerl>mcurry: Towards what end?
09:58<rnowak>heh, I once went "halt" on a gateway/log in server like that, thinking it was a node which would get autorebooted - this instead made me drive to work late at night since we didn't have the wol/power-cycle-things-whatever-they-are-called-now-again integrated
09:58<+linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
09:59<mcurry>How long does it take for a new account to get "activated"?
09:59<akerl>mcurry: Usually instant, unless there's something flagged about the CC or such
09:59<mcurry>its ben about an hour....
09:59<mcurry>I already have the billing receipt however.
10:00<akerl>mcurry: Have you gotten any emails regarding the activation?
10:00<mcurry>Only 2 emails: one for the billing, one for the receipt.
10:00<Daevien>rnowak: well, it was a vm, so not a big deal in my case, just dropped my ssh session which was being routed through it to a machine deepe ron my network. but yes, remote admin without remote console or anythign is rough. used to run servers in atlanta, china & malaysia that didn't have them. cringed everytime i had to do anything that might involve a reboot
10:00<rnowak>Daevien: heh, yeah - pretty nasty :p
10:01<mcurry>I was hoping someone in the know might be here.
10:01<Daevien>mcurry: probably something up with your billing they need to check, as akerl suggested, a an email or ticket will get a faster response, they always monitor those and response quickly, they watch irc less often
10:01<akerl>mcurry: All the ops are employees, so if one of them is actively chatting in here, you can get very fast resolution, but overall, the average email response is faster.
10:02<mcurry>Thanks. Will do.
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10:02<Daevien>rnowak: my other fav thing was setting up an asterisk box with our custom software, all sorted & ready to go, even flipped the power to what they needed in europe. so what do the brilliant call center people do? flip it back to north american voltages and plug it into euro plug :(
10:03<rnowak>Daevien: ouch
10:03<Daevien>brand new dell box go POOF :p
10:03<Daevien>i wasn't amused
10:03-!-mcurry [~mcurry@] has quit [Quit: mcurry]
10:03<rnowak>I... *think* our boxes have auto-switching PSUs, but yeah, that's pretty herp derp
10:05<Daevien>it was a lower end server, didn't have autoswitching or redundant psus.. but still, it was all setup and i made it brainless. give it network & power, hit the button, leave it alone
10:05<rnowak>Yeah :/ Pretty much. Funny how they didn't bother checking what state it was in before plugging it in :p
10:06<Daevien>around that time was when i found my nightmare inducing thing: java written by chinese coders that don't know english. java = annoying. java with chinese comments when you don't speak or write chinese? eek
10:06<rnowak>sounds fantastic :D
10:07<hawk>Yeah, brilliant
10:07<Daevien>yeah, that job was... interesting...
10:07-!-looplog [~archloop@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:09<navi>Daevien: How was the documentation/user interface, language=wise?
10:09<navi>Daevien: And variable names?
10:10<Daevien>navi: it wasn't bad public interface wise, there was one programmer that knew english very well and one that knew it half decent
10:10<Daevien>code wise, it was a nightmare
10:12-!-oojacoboo [] has quit [Quit: oojacoboo]
10:13<Daevien>then again, asterisk back in 2005/2006 was pretty nightmareish on its own
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10:17<akerl>If I'm using an ssh tunnel as a proxy, is there a way to force the outbound traffic to use a certain IP?
10:18<rnowak>I wondered that a while back, and didn't manage to find anything - although I didn't look very hard
10:25<Daevien>hmm, same thing as rnowak, i haven't looked at it very much
10:25<akerl>hmm... I see some docs regarding forcing certain users to use certain IPs, which would work, but seems like a lot of work
10:25<Daevien>you can set the bind address, that might change outgoing as well?
10:26<akerl>bind address for sshd?
10:27<Daevien>with the ssh client anyway, not sure on putty for options... i'm in linux right now
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10:30<Daevien>after a quick search, first few results all seem to point to the iptables method which would be sort of annoying
10:40<john2>what could be wrong with my node ... I get network is unreachable even when I do ping localhost
10:41<john2>all I did was upgrade to squeeze from lenny
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10:43<akerl>john2: can you pastebin the output of `ip addr list`?
10:44<akerl>Actually, before doing that, check you /etc/hosts and confirm that localhost is in there where it should be
10:44<HoopyCat>from, it doesn't look like that's a known failure mode
10:45<HoopyCat>(also be sure you're using the Latest 2.6 Paravirt kernel; i don't think the article specifically says that, but it's worth checking)
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10:45<navi>john2: What does uname -a say?
10:46<akerl>Yea, you're networking looks mightily borked
10:46<john2>result of cat /etc/hosts
10:46*HoopyCat quickly hides the knife he was going to use against akerl, and looks innocent
10:46<akerl>:p I caught myself
10:47<akerl>john2: On an unrelated note, you don't have your hostname properly configured. But that's not what's causing this problem
10:47<navi>interesting. My debian node doesn't have an -allhosts
10:47<navi>Completely unrelated, but interesting.
10:48<john2>uname -a gives
10:48<HoopyCat>curiously, the county's web site doesn't appear to have an automatic mobile version:
10:49<navi>Use a real kernel
10:49-!-solocommand [] has quit []
10:49<HoopyCat>john2: change to the Latest 2.6 Paravirt kernel, reboot, and that'll probably go a little better
10:49<navi> is what you /should/ be running
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10:51<john2>hoopycat, how would I do that?
10:51<navi>john2: Change the kernel in the linode manager
10:51<akerl>It's in the configuration profile for your node, and will require a reboot
10:54<navi>Dashboard > "My XXXXXXXX Profile" Edit > "Kernel [Latest 2.6 Paravirt ( v]" > Save Changes > Reboot
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10:56<john2>did that and rebooted ... but network failure persists
10:56<czr_>john2, does ifconfig -a report anything?
10:56<czr_>specifically, does it list the 'lo' interface?
10:58<john2>result of ifconfig -a
10:59<navi>czr_: So the answer to that would be yes?
10:59<czr_>however it's not configured
10:59<navi>My lo looks a little sifferent to that one
10:59<czr_>so your networking configuration stuff wasn't run
11:00<czr_>lo is missing the address, hence ping won't work
11:00<czr_>john2, 'ifup lo' says what?
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11:02<john2>ifup: command not found
11:03*heckman is late to the party
11:03<@heckman>What distro are you running john2?
11:04<akerl>just upgraded lenny to squeeze
11:04<@heckman>john2: mind pasting the output of: cat /etc/apt/sources.list
11:04<john2>yes just upgraded from lenny to squeeze
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11:05<navi>john2: What does lsb_release -a give?
11:07<john2>lsb_release -a
11:07<navi>Okay, so the server acknowledges it's running squeeze
11:08<navi>john2: There's nothing in apt still to install?
11:08<@heckman>john2: Did anything strange happen during the upgrade?
11:08<navi>john2: Nothing in dist-upgrade that you need to run?
11:10<john2>no .. upgrade seemed to go well ... was just following instructions from
11:12<navi>john2: Note one of the comments in that article
11:12<navi>Ben 2011-03-21 16:37:29
11:12<navi>For some reason, ifupdown was missing after the update on my install. Had to fix that, the mysql thing, switch dovecot from cmusieve to sieve and pick a newer kernel to keep udev happy
11:12<navi>So you're not the only one who's ever had this issue, it seems
11:13<john2>yes ... saw that comment now ... wonder what he did to fix it
11:13<navi>installed it again?
11:14<navi>Just a guess.
11:14<john2>apt-get install ifupdown?
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11:17<john2>apt-get no longer works because network is down for the node
11:19<@heckman>john2: There's a cool way to trick it in to working.
11:19<@heckman>One moment, I'll type up quick instructions and pastebin it.
11:19<praetorian>4. Profit
11:24<@heckman>It uses Finnix to restore network connectivity. You the chroot in to your environment and use apt-get like always. Once finished simply exit out of the chrooted environment and reboot back in to your configuration profile.
11:25<hawk>I would have thought that he probably still has his dhcp client in place just that nothing starts it... something like "dhclient eth0" could work if that was so
11:27-!-andrew [~andrew@] has joined #linode
11:27<hawk>(Also, the whole situation kind of underlines why one should skim through what apt-get plans to do before giving it the go-ahead)
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11:35<john2>here is what I get when I run the apt-get install ifupdown
11:36<hawk>Ok, so it installed it without complaints...?
11:36<hawk>I suppose the pts thing is normal if you got networking through heckmans approach
11:37<john2>okay .. should I try rebooting in regular mode?
11:37<@heckman>Sounds like a plan.
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11:45<john2>thank you heckman ... looks like that took care of the networking problem
11:45<@heckman>Awesome! Happy to hear it.
11:45<Daevien>heckman actually knew something? someone write it down!
11:45*Daevien grins
11:46<john2>now i just have to upgrade apache2 it looks like
11:48<Daevien>you probably have a bunch of packages that have changed versions and possibly config
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12:08<john2>having problems starting apache anyone recognize this error:
12:09<akerl>john2: Did you fix your hostname, as I suggested above?
12:09<@caker>something is already listening on port 80 -- another webserver, perhaps?
12:09-!-mbreslin [term@2001:470:1f05:14d8::1:1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:09<akerl>Or you didn't run that as root?
12:09<akerl>"Unable to open logs" + fail to bind sounds like you aren't root.
12:10<john2>believe the hostname is fixed ..
12:10<@caker>his prompt is a # .. shrug
12:10<akerl>john2: What's the output of `hostname` and `hostname -f`
12:10<@caker>Address already in use <-- that's kinda more important than the hostname :)
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12:44<john2>problem was nginx running already on port 80
12:44<akerl>That'd do it.
12:45<akerl>As a note: I'd still recommend correctly configuring your hostname
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12:47<john2>think the hostname is set correctly now
12:47<john2>running into another apache config issue after upgrading apache2
12:47<akerl>john2: What's the output of `hostname` and `hostname -f`
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12:49<john2>hostname output:
12:49<akerl>Nope, your hostname is not correctly configured.
12:49<akerl>!library hostname
12:49<+linbot>akerl: 1. Host Instant Messaging Services with ejabberd on Fedora 13 - | 2. Standalone MySQL Server - | 3. Host Instant Messaging Services with ejabberd on CentOS 5 -
12:49<akerl>Sadness, linbot
12:49<@heckman>It's in there.
12:50<akerl>There we go.
12:50<akerl>As far as the error about pythonhandler, that's probably caused by not having mod_python loaded, but I'd question why you're using that instead of wsgi.
12:55<john2>i am calling the server name as coserver ... and /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts are updated ... what else needs to be changed?
12:55<akerl>john2: Did you notice how your /etc/hosts differs from the one in the library article?
12:58*heckman whispers to john2 -- It contains your domain after the server name...
12:58<john2>the fdqn .. thank you for pointing that
12:59<akerl>As a verification, if your server is properly configured, `hostname` should output coserver, and `hostname -f` should output coserver.example.tld
13:00*heckman hopes they makde ".tld" one of the new gTLDs.
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13:02<john2>okay got it now
13:03<john2>what is wsgi is it natively supported by apache?
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13:03<@heckman>It's another module. "mod_wsgi"
13:04<akerl>john2: Both mod_wsgi and mod_python are apache modules. Realistically, you can use either, and both have guides in the linode library
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13:14<john2>question on getting more diskspace on the node ... does this involve a reinstall or can it be transparently added to an existing virtual device, say /dev/xvda
13:15<akerl>It requires shutting down, growing the disk image, and booting. You should have backups, but it doesn't require a reinstall.
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13:16<akerl>Unless you're using something other than ext3 filesystems, in which case, you're on your own.
13:17<john2>okay .. and are there instructions for doing that? it is ex3 and 3g now ... want to expand it to 5g
13:17<akerl>3gb? Why so small?
13:18<john2>was not running much on this node ... now wanting to add gnome and running out of disk space
13:18-!-AphisOne [] has joined #linode
13:18<Daevien>akerl: thats what urmom said to heckman
13:19<+linbot>New news from forums: Sendmail working but citmail (Citadel replacement) is not in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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13:20<akerl>john2: 1) Why would you add gnome? 2) Why not use all the disk space available on your plan?
13:20<@caker>3) Why did the chiken cross the road?
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13:20<bob2>mod_python is abandoned
13:20<bob2>don't use that
13:23<john2>ah... looks like there is more free diskspace ... signed up a few years ago and at that time was using all diskspace available ... reason for gnome is to be able to vnc into the node
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13:24<akerl>john2: My point was that in most cases, the resources you waste on installing a gui outweigh the benefits you can gain from vnc'ing in.
13:24<+linbot>New news from forums: 1x 768 + IP + Backup or 2x 512, Thoughts? in General Discussion <>
13:25<hawk>akerl: Think of all the terminal windows you can have in that vnc session
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13:26<akerl>hawk: Think of how many terminal windows I can have on my local machine :p
13:26<pharaun>akerl: but they are no longer on the vps :>
13:27<czr_>unless you're doing xlib development, what's the point of running terminal emulators over vnc?
13:27<czr_>plus, you don't need gnoem for vnc anyway. you need rxvt/xterm and vncserver
13:27<czr_>but.. what would be the point? ssh = profit.
13:27<akerl>Is there some limitation I don't know of that prevents running a plethora of local terminals, all connected to the node over ssh?
13:28<hawk>czr_: urxvt, obviously
13:28<czr_>hawk, possibly, been ages since I need anything like that :-)
13:29<hawk>Well, screen / tmux kind of makes it unnecessary to connect a bunch of separate times over ssh
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13:29<akerl>hawk: Meh, lots of times I like to be able to see everything I'm doing at once.
13:29<akerl>But point taken.
13:29<pronto> dual screen minecraft :s
13:29<czr_>I normally just run multiple sshs in separate local term emus
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13:32<hawk>akerl: Hmm, really? I rarely care to see the different things side by side. But when I really do want that, sure. (I can't really be bothered with splitting the screen in screen, I don't go that far)
13:33<hawk>I just find that it's so much quicker to bring up a new shell that way to begin with... and you don't get swamped with terminal windows.
13:34<Kuukunen>pronto: urgh, looks annoying :/
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13:34<pronto>Kuukunen: oh/
13:34<Kuukunen>pronto: like, usually the most important stuff is in the middle
13:34<Kuukunen>but now there's the gap between the screens :P
13:34<bob2>bind f10 to new window, f11 to move up and f12 to move down
13:34<pronto>Kuukunen: i just did that just to see if it would work lol
13:34<Kuukunen>pronto: kk, get a third one and then you can be happy camper :o
13:35<pronto>Kuukunen: you pay for it :s
13:35<Kuukunen>you can get screens for $0.05 right?
13:35<pronto>my coworker is going to be giving me a 20 inch screen for free soonish lol
13:35<hawk>bob2: Uh?
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13:54<czr_>Kuukunen, I think just starting 'screen' is free for most of the people
13:54<czr_>unless you're running bsd process accouting and someone actually charges for cpu usagef
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13:54<Kuukunen>hm, pay-per-process model?
13:55<czr_>pay per used CPU time.
13:55<czr_>so, finer granularity than just per process
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14:08<Louis6321>In the Linode iOS app, in DNS Manager > Add Domain: What does SOA mean?
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14:10<akerl>In the case of the Linode manager, it wants the email address for the admin
14:10<AlexC_>if you want to stick to standards, that'll be
14:10<Louis6321>Ahh right. Thanks :)
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14:12<@heckman>Is that a standard or simply something that was somewhat of an unofficial standard?
14:12<Kuukunen>czr_: I mean sure, that was just a silly thing :P
14:12<AlexC_>heckman: probably the latter. Trying to find the RFC and related docs I saw a while back
14:13<akerl>I'm at rfc 1035, as linked by wikipedia, and don't see where it says that
14:14<acidchild>the standard is for the email in the SOA to be correct, not that you see oh so very often.
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14:25<akerl>Found a rule I definitely needed for iptables. Allow localhost for everything. Hurray for working email/monit/etc
14:27<acidchild>watch -n 1 iptables-save -c
14:27<acidchild>and try connecting, then you can see the bit counter go up on the rule that is blocking your connection :>
14:28<akerl>Nifty, I'll have to remember that one.
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14:57<+linbot>New news from forums: Trying LEMP w. vBulletin, slightly stuck with try_files in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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15:38<+linbot>New news from forums: Rails Setup in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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15:42<akerl>Ok, so I'm switching from mysql to postgresql. I know when I installed mysql, I did mysql_secure_installation to get the basic stuff configured. Are there any similar steps I want to take to configure postgres?
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15:45<dylanvee>I'm using MySQL to store weather station data. Many days of observations, many stations, and 5 types of observations (e.member:g. min temp, max temp, member:snow depth, etc.). Should I design my tables such that one member:row has all types of measurements for one day, or should each member:row only have one type of measurement (e.member:g. 5 rows for 1 day of observations at 1 station)? Thanks in advance...
15:45<akerl>dylanvee: Yes.
15:46<dylanvee>akerl: Yes what? :)
15:46<vsmatck>You could do that or go semi-schema'd. Where you have a "measurement_type" columm, for example.
15:46<akerl>Firstly, that description is very confusing in terms of how you are considering storing the data. Secondly, there is no way, without more information, of telling you exactly the best way of doing things
15:46<dylanvee>I guess to clarify, what is more efficient: "SELECT temp_max FROM measurements WHERE date ..." or "SELECT value FROM measurements WHERE type = temp_max AND date ..."
15:47<pharaun>are the type of observations fixed?
15:47<dylanvee>Sorry :/
15:47<akerl>For instance, Does each station/day combo have all 5 observations?
15:47<HoopyCat>how will you be retrieving the information? if you're ever going to want to do SELECT highTemp,lowTemp,rainfallAmount FROM observations... or something, you'll probably want multiple columns in one table
15:47<dylanvee>There are only 5 types of observations, but every station will not have each type every day.
15:47<pharaun>if so then i would just recommend like date, station id, observation and have one row per, but again that depends on what you want to do
15:48<HoopyCat>if you have columns named "type" and "value", you're doing it wrong
15:48<akerl>Personally, I'd probably do one table per station, one row per day, one column per observation, NULL for any that don't exist
15:48<pharaun>i'm with hoopy ^
15:48<pharaun>that's a quick way to get into a mess
15:48<pharaun>akerl: that depends on how many stations there are
15:48<akerl>pharaun: Fair enough
15:48<dylanvee>a few thousand stations
15:48<pharaun>thousands of stations -> thousands of table?
15:48<pharaun>does each station have a unique id ?
15:49<dylanvee>is thousands of tables bad?
15:49<dylanvee>yes, they have unique IDs
15:49<vsmatck>It depends on how much you want to do in the application. And how likely schema changes are (for fully schema'd design).
15:49<dylanvee>very unlikely. it's historical climate data.
15:49<HoopyCat>dylanvee: it gets a little odd when you have a lot of tables, yes
15:49<dylanvee>import once, read a bunch of times
15:49<akerl>dylanvee: Out of curiousity, how are you coming into possession of thousands of stations without an existing storage mechanism?
15:49<pharaun><-- is a fan of this schema - date, stationid, value, value, value, value
15:49<pharaun>akerl: cvs i would guess
15:49<dylanvee>It's all in a text file provided by the US Govt lol
15:49<pharaun>s/cvs/csv/ i mean
15:50<vsmatck>If schema is very fixed with the historical data.. then I'm going to agree with most of the people here to do fully-schema'd.
15:50<akerl>pharaun++, where value is the name of the observation, not the actual words "value1" "value2" etc
15:50<pharaun>i've done some work with weather data and honestly the simplest approach i found was just to do date, id, value value
15:50<pharaun>akerl: of course
15:50<dylanvee>vsmatck: That's what I was thinking as well
15:50<HoopyCat>also note that the occasional "ALTER TABLE" is not the end of the world
15:50<vsmatck>Well that depends on how big your data is. :)
15:50<HoopyCat>adding columns is fine... well, you AREN'T doing "SELECT *", right? :-)
15:50<vsmatck>If your alter table starts taking more than 1 month you may have problems.
15:50<dylanvee>The measurements text file is ~2 GB uncompressed
15:50<pharaun>that's not too bad
15:51<dylanvee>And like I said, after the import it's gonna be all reads
15:51<pharaun>really large databases can be in the order of terabytes
15:51<AviMarcus>HoopyCat, select * is a bad idea? :P
15:51<HoopyCat>dylanvee: woohah, that's a fun-looking format
15:51<akerl>Now that all the db people have hopped out of the woodwork, any advice on initial config for postgres?
15:51<vsmatck>I bet fully schema'd would give you better performance in a all-read situation. You could define indexes on everything. The performance loss would only be on writes.
15:51<HoopyCat>AviMarcus: it is when i add a column :-)
15:52<pharaun>hahaha :x 264 columns?
15:52<HoopyCat>akerl: i have no idea how to tune postgresql, which i consider to be a very good thing.
15:52<dylanvee>vsmatck: In which case I'm gonna create the indexes only after inserting everything
15:52<akerl>That you don't know how to tune it?
15:52<pharaun>dylanvee: are you straight loading or are you going to parse these and only load a subset of that data?
15:52<HoopyCat>akerl: i haven't had to learn how to tune it yet, despite it somehow sitting there handling... a lot of queries
15:53<pharaun>dylanvee: btw i would recommend turning off transaction and do batch-insert to speed up the loading
15:53<akerl>HoopyCat: Awesome.
15:53<pharaun>assuming whatever db you are using can't directload from csv
15:53<dylanvee>pharaun: The existing data is in an odd format but yes I'm going to load all of it
15:53<dylanvee>pharaun: It's not straight CSV
15:53<akerl>This is why I love linode as a personal/learning tool. I can decide that I want to learn postgres and python, and start rebuilding my server.
15:53<pharaun>k then you'll need a scrpit and all of that :) and haha yes i am looking at the data format.txt
15:54<dylanvee>Yep, I'm in the process of designing the schema / writing the script
15:54<pharaun>dylanvee: i would higly recommend looking into turning off transaction for the data loading and look into bulk inserts
15:54<pharaun>what db are you using? i did mine with sqlite and i just put it in ramdisk for the initial data loading
15:54<akerl>hmm... I can't even find the postgres config file
15:55<dylanvee>pharaun: Sounds good to me.
15:56<akerl>Nifty. Postgres keeps it's conf in the data directory. I wonder if there'd be any problems symlinking that to /etc
15:56<dylanvee>So, to recap on the schema design question, it sounds like I should have one row per station per day?
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15:57<vsmatck>Does a day only have one reading?
15:57-!-shedammit [] has quit [Quit: bye]
15:57<dylanvee>vsmatck: Yes, only one of each type per day.
15:57<pharaun>dylanvee: one row for one reading + station
15:57<pharaun>oh only one a day then yes
15:57<vsmatck>I concur :)
15:57<Sura-Bura>Let's say, hypothetically, that someone at Linode wants to snoop into my linode and look at my data. What steps would he need to take? Does he have to physically approach the node, or can he easily log into it as root, or easily remotely look at the hard drive contents?
15:57<dylanvee>pharaun: Cool. Where the alternative would be one row for reading + station + one of the 5 types.
15:58<pharaun>nice thing is it will let you do various query like X station by date range, or "what's the nationwide weather on Y day"
15:58<akerl>Sura-Bura: He'd log into the host machine, and look at your node.
15:58<pharaun>Sura-Bura: is this for PCI-dss stuff ?
15:58<dylanvee>pharaun: The majority of our queries will be "give me the max and min temps for this station for this date range"
15:58<Sura-Bura>pharaun, what's that?
15:59<Sura-Bura>I'm just concerned about privacy..
15:59<pharaun>dylanvee: then the one row per station w/ columns containing data per day is the best imho
15:59<Sura-Bura>I've no idea who to trust out there :S
15:59<Sura-Bura>I certainly don't trust Google and Apple
15:59<pharaun>then you can do station = "blah" and date = "blah range/whatever"
15:59<pharaun>nice and easy query
15:59<dylanvee>pharaun: Great, thanks! My gut tells me that's the best way too
15:59<Sura-Bura>i thought maybe Linode would be safer because at least not all the data is on some central server and backed up to who knows where.
16:00<pharaun>Sura-Bura: again its not a machine in your personal control :p
16:00<akerl>Sura-Bura: Realistically, there is no way to store data on a server from HOST, that HOST can't read, and have that same server use the data.
16:00<akerl>Sura-Bura: Where HOST is anyone from godaddy to linode to anybody else
16:01<akerl>Because you can encrypt your data a million different ways, but if you want your server to use the data, the server (which isn't under your personal control) must know how to decrypt it
16:01<pharaun>even if you host your own hardware in a datacenter
16:01<pharaun>you will be on the same network as X thousands other machines
16:01<pharaun>they can attack your machine or someone can put a hub in between and read the traffic, or have physical access, etc...
16:01<Sura-Bura>so why do you guys trust linode?
16:01<Sura-Bura>have you any reason to?
16:01<akerl>Sura-Bura: Why do you trust your ISP?
16:01<pharaun>i'm reminded of this quotation to have a secure computer. 1) computer is off, 2) no ethernet cable, 3) its buried in cement :)
16:02<Sura-Bura>akerl, good point
16:02<Sura-Bura>i dont :(
16:02<HIghoS>Sura-Bura: At a certain point in time, you have to trust someone.
16:02<AviMarcus>HIghoS, NEVER!
16:02<pharaun>thus "web of trust" :p
16:02<Sura-Bura>pharaun, hehe
16:02<Parallax>Trust no-one
16:02<Knorrie>Sura-Bura: why do you trust the bakery? they could put poison into your bread!
16:02<HIghoS>If you don't trust anyone, you couldn't be here asking these questions.
16:02<pharaun>what about the guys who built your house?
16:02<HIghoS>You're asking for validation just by being here, hence... kinda ridiculous.
16:02<Parallax>Sura-Bura: why do you trust us to answer your question honestly?
16:03<pharaun>we are random figurment of your mind :>
16:03<pharaun>we don't really exist
16:03<akerl>I've already been accused of being a bot once today
16:03<pharaun>akerl: you are a tad botty you know ;)
16:03<Sura-Bura>Linode have how many nodes these days?
16:03<Sura-Bura>Hundreds? Thousands?
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16:03<AlexC_>over 9000
16:03<akerl>40,000 plus customers, was it? At the last press release?
16:03<Sura-Bura>hehe nice
16:04<Sura-Bura>not likely they are snooping into email shtne
16:04<Sura-Bura>emails then*
16:04<pharaun>the larger a company is the more likely there is going to be a rogue employee
16:04<Sura-Bura>oh crap
16:04<pharaun>just another thing to consider :>
16:04<AviMarcus>which proves?
16:04<akerl>But I'm sure Linode doesn't allow Lady Gaga cds
16:04<pharaun>its all about risk management
16:05<akerl>So we're safe
16:05<Sura-Bura>Can some staff comment on this? How do you handle data?
16:05<pharaun>if you don't trust your email server
16:05<pharaun>you should be using gpg encryption in a end to end encryption
16:05<pharaun>between you and your destination for example
16:05<akerl>Sura-Bura: All the ops here are staff, but the basic premise will be "technically we could see your data, but we don't spy on you"
16:05<pharaun>or if its national security issue, well gosh don't put it on your linode :o
16:05<pharaun>again ^
16:06<pharaun>we trust them not to spy on our data, but again its all about trust and risk management
16:06-!-jboom [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:06<Sura-Bura>this is also why i can't put my projects on any online git host, e.g. github
16:06<Sura-Bura>because the data is not encrypted on their servers
16:07<akerl>I feel like "can't" is the wrong verb
16:07<pharaun>truth be told, people here either 1) trust linode staff, 2) risk management and don';t put any data that is bad on their machines, 3) don't give a damn
16:07<AlexC_>Sura-Bura: is your data *really* this sensitive, or are you just being silly?
16:07<AlexC_>I'm putting money on the latter
16:07<akerl>If someone wants to get your data badly enough, they'll just break into your house.
16:07<Parallax>Most likely option B
16:07<pharaun>Sura-Bura: um why the hell would you want to put data on github if its *that* sensitive
16:07<pharaun>private repo i suppose but :x
16:07<Sura-Bura>The data is not too sensitive, no. But I think it's healthy to think about it. Stupid to just not give a damn imo
16:08<Sura-Bura>yeah i have private repos
16:08<AlexC_>Sura-Bura: yes, but your thinking of it right now is too unhealthy and is hindering your options for no reason
16:08<pharaun>yes but again there is a wide range of thinking to do :)
16:08<Sura-Bura>and then i encrypt them and upload them to back them up
16:08<Sura-Bura>good point
16:08<pharaun>there's from wise/smart consideration to outright, OH MY GOD THE FEDS ARE AFTER ME!
16:08<akerl>There's a difference between "not giving a damn", which is putting all your sensitive data on public ftp, and "not being crazy" which is what you're considering
16:09-!-dylanvee [] has quit [Quit: dylanvee]
16:09<AlexC_>Sura-Bura: in short, you're on the Internet. There is no privacy, so get off it =)
16:09<pharaun>another way to think about it
16:09<pharaun>is this a bunch of private data
16:09<pharaun>that may be covered under say one of the various federal laws?
16:09<pharaun>or is it just your own personal data?
16:09<+linbot>IRC supports complete sentences. Less <CR> more content, please.
16:09<Sura-Bura>just personal data
16:09<akerl>:p | caker
16:10<@caker>also: I read your email
16:10<pharaun>pssh, habit ;_; no need to hit me with that !enter hammer :o
16:10<Sura-Bura>hehehe yeah i saw that one once
16:11<pharaun>Sura-Bura: that is what will happen if the fed are really after you
16:11<pharaun>or in some of the other country, you are *required* to surrender your password so.....
16:11<avenj>caker: in that case, can you provide me summaries of my list mail please?
16:11<akerl>And if they aren't, then joe shmoe isn't going to infiltrate github and get into your private repo
16:11<tjfontaine>/svsnick caker AvenjsSecretary
16:11<avenj>I won't have to lean on delete as much
16:11<Sura-Bura>good point.
16:11<Sura-Bura>now i feel better
16:12<AviMarcus>akerl, nice cartoon
16:12<Sura-Bura>i may even get on google+ now
16:12*AlexC_ feels Sura-Bura
16:12<AlexC_>yeah, you do feel better
16:12<akerl>And now he feels worse :p
16:12<AlexC_>hey, there is nothing wrong with feeling someone over the Internet
16:14<AlexC_>.shtml.html? Kill that web developer now kthxbai
16:14<akerl>AlexC_: That's what you find wrong about that link? :-/
16:14<pharaun>AlexC_: .htm
16:15<vsmatck>He's probably getting out his credit card.
16:15<pharaun>XD check out the faq, poster models :p
16:16<AlexC_>thanks for the link vsmatck
16:17<AlexC_>will it run with wine?
16:18<AlexC_>see this is how you get privacy, say such things that people just don't want to even begin to think what data you have :P
16:19<pharaun>and it makes a whole channel silent till a new victim^WCustomer enters
16:20<AlexC_>(for the record, I was not being serious :P)
16:20<nosuchnick>good day
16:20<pharaun>AlexC_: see ^ the next victim enters
16:21*AlexC_ rubs his hands together#
16:22<nosuchnick>pharaun: if he encrypts all data on his linode with gpg, with full disk encryption on his localhost (assuming he is a lin user)
16:23<nosuchnick>if a pseudoname is used, he can disavow knowledge of how to decrypt, or if he wishes to, use gpg --show-session key
16:23<nosuchnick>and --override-session-key
16:23<nosuchnick>to allow them to decrypt every individual file
16:23<nosuchnick>that the session is valid for
16:23<pharaun>problem again, is the feds won't care, they will just kneecap you over and over
16:23<akerl>nosuchnick: That's lovely if he's using linode as a glorified s3, just for storage. But how does he let the server use the data
16:24<nosuchnick>depends on what kind of data you are talking about akerl
16:24<pharaun>anyway if its used as storage that would work but there's cheaper alternatives
16:24<akerl>nosuchnick: web server.
16:24<nosuchnick>pharaun: the feds? there is more than just one group.. if its the DoJ, then its all due process and threats..
16:24<pharaun>tho there has been stuff like running javascript on the browser to decrypt the data
16:24<AlexC_>there is a concept that Passpack uses, called Host-Proof-Hosting. They never know the data you store
16:24<AlexC_>pharaun: =) that's what Passpack does
16:24<nosuchnick>if it is another more sinister executive agency... then he should learn how to forget.
16:25<pharaun>nosuchnick: oh i know, its a gross simplification, i'm not going to spend 20 minute explaining each department in the feds :) and go direct to the "knee capper department" :>
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16:25<nosuchnick>akerl: host the webserver, generate his own certs, and sign it with a signign key, and lets not get into the broken CA model..
16:25<nosuchnick>a custom httpd?
16:25<pharaun>nosuchnick: how can you prove that you forgot? do be aware that you can be made to vanish and be held up for... thirty years while they kneecap you over and over :)
16:26<pharaun>AlexC_: ah? yeah however again problem is depending, its still weak cos now you got javascript running on the client computer and how do you pass through the key to decrypt it unless you use an ... offline or alternative way to pass the decryption key
16:26<nosuchnick>pharaun: do you have experience with such matters, or is your knowledge gained from the Bourne Supremacy, and Green Zone?
16:26<nosuchnick>Violence percieved is violence achieved.
16:26<nosuchnick>Torture... when talking about encryption isnt realistic.
16:27<AlexC_>pharaun: you provide the decryption key once you login
16:27<pharaun>so the decryption key would be something in your mind/local machine?
16:27<akerl>nosuchnick: You just advised writing a custom httpd to secure data, but a government agency is unrealistic?
16:27<nosuchnick>If you beat him too hard, or induce too much duress, you run the risk of getting bad output.
16:27<pharaun>AlexC_: that would work but if you want someone else to view it you're going to need to find a way to transfer the key to them
16:27<pharaun>nosuchnick: oh i know, problem is if you truely forgot
16:27<pharaun>how can they verify that
16:27<nosuchnick>I did not say use a custom httpd to secure the data. Use a custom httpd to transmit it.
16:28<nosuchnick>so that all content on server is encrypted
16:28<AlexC_>pharaun: of course, which is fine for Passpack as it's for passwords for you, and not serving to the public
16:28<akerl>nosuchnick: If you lock up all your data with gpg, how does a custom httpd help you transmit it? Nobody can decrypt it...
16:28<nosuchnick>assuming you have a small group of people who shall recieve the crypto text
16:28<nosuchnick>or, store a secret key on another place
16:28<pharaun>AlexC_: fair enough, that works in that case :) I'm a big fan of services that encrypt your data locally and store it on the servers, i'm not a fan of models that encrypts *on* the servers, that's just... :|
16:28<nosuchnick>upload encrypted data
16:28<akerl>The end result is that there is always a weak link, and it can always be compromised.
16:29<nosuchnick>and then you can remove the key (save from gcache)
16:29<pharaun>again called rubber hose cryptoanalysis :)
16:29<AlexC_>pharaun: yeah, I don't like that either. Passpack does all the encryption and decryption in your browser, and only stores the encrypred data. Hence the host-proof-hosting
16:29<akerl>Once you add the internet to a security plan, there is no complete solution.
16:29<nosuchnick>but that is why if you have legitimate security concerns
16:29<nosuchnick>and interests on yer ass
16:29<nosuchnick>dont make it public.
16:29<nosuchnick>btw, organizations are more interested in WHO you are xmitting data to, not what you are sending.
16:29<AlexC_>pastebin is agood idea for sensitive data
16:30<pharaun>AlexC_: in that case, it works :) however! another problem is its done via javascript/in browser, what's there to prevent mtm attack on the javascript? how about the host replacing the javascript ? etc
16:30<nosuchnick>realistically, all cryptographic algorithms are already compromised.
16:30<nosuchnick>They would not be granted an export license if they were not.
16:30<akerl>I'd bet that the user is the weak link in 95% of situations that involve sharing data. So the original point about trusting linode is a pointless debate
16:30<pharaun>nosuchnick: i don't really care, i am just saying there's no 100% secure/proof manner because humans will be the weak link :)
16:30<akerl>pharaun: And ninja'd :p
16:30<AlexC_>pharaun: the host changing the JavaScript to retransmit the decrypted data back to them? Possible, though they are very open about it all and you can download their HPH code to make your own services with
16:30<pharaun>nosuchnick: and if they really *HAVE* to like its national security they can always make you go away and take their sweet time on you
16:31<pharaun>AlexC_: nice :) and yeah i know, i was just poking holes in that model, again in the end it comes down to "trust", who do you trust
16:31<nosuchnick>You mean other than the linode guest, and any bribable person in the dcenter, plus the algo itself being compromised by its designers (them) ?
16:31<nosuchnick>it comes down to what you are sending...
16:31<nosuchnick>side channel attacks are very effective
16:31<nosuchnick>coupled with social network analysis.
16:31<AlexC_>pharaun: indeed, a healthy level of trust is needed somewhere as you say
16:31<nosuchnick>What is the point of encrypting if your pubkee is stored on ntfs lol..
16:32<pharaun>nosuchnick: wtf does ntfs has to do with this
16:32<nosuchnick>or my favorite, truecrypt.. nuff said.
16:32<akerl>nosuchnick: You're arguing a non-point. I'm not sure what you hope to prove
16:32<nosuchnick>duh.. any idiot can use a live cd, copy off the secret key
16:32<nosuchnick>since you cannot trust that if you have secure data
16:32<nosuchnick>its easier to break into your home
16:32<nosuchnick>than it is to break into a server.
16:32<akerl>obvious troll is obvious
16:33<nosuchnick>... I am a sec consultant, not a troll..
16:33<nosuchnick>Be realistic.
16:33<AlexC_>but how can we trust that you're not a troll?
16:33<nosuchnick>a black bag job is easier.
16:33<nosuchnick>lol. because you all are still talking about renditions and kneecapping
16:33<nosuchnick>watching too many movies lol.
16:34<nosuchnick>honestly, if you have serious data, the russians go for yer family.
16:34<AlexC_>well, maybe instead of kneecapping we can switch to tickiling people
16:34<akerl>nosuchnick: What are you attempting to prove? We've established that nothing is secure, everything is vulnerable, and the world is full of vulnerabilities...
16:34<akerl>Either make a new point, or move on.
16:34<AlexC_>some people will crack to stop people ticklingy them
16:34<nosuchnick>the point: making a personal linode secure-ish
16:34<AlexC_>I wonder if that is a legit interogration technique?
16:34<nosuchnick>from linode, with a
16:34<pharaun>nosuchnick: no the reason why i keep on bringing up "kneecapping" is because it *proves* that humans are going to usually be the weakest link in a secure system once you've fixed/covered up all of the other holes/weakness in it
16:34<nosuchnick>- from linode staff
16:35<pharaun>nosuchnick: again need I remind you of wikileaks and the guy who leaks documents to them?
16:35<nosuchnick>as well as ensuring that assuming the images are in dirty hands anyway
16:35<akerl>nosuchnick: 1) You can't knock us for mentioning kneecapping, and then bring up russians killing family
16:35<nosuchnick>oh, you only have two knees
16:35<pharaun>AlexC_: probably
16:35<nosuchnick>and four sides...
16:35<nosuchnick>front and back.
16:35<pharaun>what the fuck
16:35<nosuchnick>surely a more creative approach is used. btw, manning is being held sure
16:35<AlexC_>pharaun: it would be incredibly awesome if it was
16:35<pharaun>you have over 100 bones, start breaking each one by one :p
16:35<nosuchnick>but its not like he is in gitmo
16:35<nosuchnick>or at bagram..
16:35<pharaun>AlexC_: probably :)
16:36<nosuchnick>he hasnt lost his citizenship
16:36<pharaun>nosuchnick: oh from what i heard, it was far worse, he was being held in solinary confinement, and don't have any blanket or clothings to wear when he is sleeping
16:36<nosuchnick>since many of ye learn from hollywood, Unthinkable is far more realistic..
16:36<pharaun>nosuchnick: and if they can't see his face and see if he's breathing then they will go in and wake him up
16:36<pharaun>how is that better than gitmo
16:36<nosuchnick>no comment.
16:37<nosuchnick>gitmo isnt the worst. believe it or not.
16:37<pharaun>but the truth of the matter is the human is going to be the weakness, so honestly again, please can you explain, WHAT you are trying to prove/say ?
16:37<akerl>nosuchnick: Have you been to gitmo?
16:37<nosuchnick>that its possible to secure
16:37<nosuchnick>a linode
16:37<akerl>nosuchnick: How?
16:38<AlexC_>security is all relative anyway
16:38<nosuchnick>gut it and redesign the image.
16:38<nosuchnick>yes it is.. relative to the threats
16:38<akerl>nosuchnick: Again... how
16:38<nosuchnick>and the environment it operates in.
16:38<nosuchnick>well gee.. i have to ask
16:38<nosuchnick>what are you concerned about?
16:38<AlexC_>is it possible to secure a linode from a 2 year old? Yes
16:38<nosuchnick>what are the vectors?
16:38<nosuchnick>i meant from naughty staff, from certain organizations that may have an interest in yer data, etc.
16:38<akerl>nosuchnick: From anyone.
16:39<nosuchnick>but its a balance between security and accessibility naturally.
16:39<nosuchnick>you can lock it down like a nuns snatch,
16:39<nosuchnick>but that wont really help people see what yer up to.
16:39<nosuchnick>and it may draw more attention than just keeping it a regular linode.
16:39<nosuchnick>everyone: akerl: you mean yourself too?
16:39<AlexC_>the best way to secure your data is to not store that porn collection in the first place
16:39<akerl>Even if you find a magic encryption that can't be cracked, and write a custom httpd to send the files, you have to give someone the key to decrypt. And then joe schmoe who breaks into the user's house, puts a keylogger on their computer, and then has your data
16:40<nosuchnick>not about the magic encryption
16:40<nosuchnick>as i said above, ALL crpto algos are compromised before they are released..
16:40<nosuchnick>public keys
16:40*akerl beats head on desk
16:40<nosuchnick>sha512 and alot of signatures, short cryptolength
16:40<pharaun>nosuchnick: including crypto algo from other country?
16:40<Parallax>I love watching nerds argue on the internet
16:40<nosuchnick>which country?
16:41<akerl>You can't simultaneously argue that no crypto is safe, and that you can completely secure data.
16:41<nosuchnick>i never said completely.
16:41<nosuchnick>you did.
16:41<akerl>"<nosuchnick> you can lock it down like a nuns snatch,"
16:41<nosuchnick>dont get emotional.
16:41<tjfontaine>security is not an end state, it's not something you achieve
16:41<nosuchnick>that did not mean that it was *complete..
16:41<nosuchnick>yes tjfontaine , couldnt agree more
16:42<AlexC_>sudo apt-get install security
16:42<nosuchnick>it is a way of thinking, an outlook, and a system of practices based around your operation, your risk,
16:42<nosuchnick>and thank you.. someone has sanity installed...
16:43<nosuchnick>akerl: as stated above, it can be secure-ish...
16:43<pharaun>eh? i certainly never claimed that it was possible to 100% secure something, i'm reminded of a quotation, to have a secure computer, 1) its turned off, 2) no outside contact, 3) encasted in cement :p
16:44<pharaun>and if you are claiming that all crypto algo are compromised from the get go, what about the german's enigma machines? :>
16:44<pharaun>they were eventually compromised but they were secure for a while
16:44<nosuchnick>ofc, japan learned the hard way that some wind and rain tossed their house fer sure.
16:46-!-Jippi [] has joined #linode
16:46<nosuchnick>pharaun: let me clarify: all modern cryptosystems produced in western countries are known to be compromised as a design feature. it isnt in the interest of any country to create crypto that they cannot break. furthermore, eitiher key escrow, or a design feature is obviously in their interests to implement.. no?
16:46-!-copperx [] has joined #linode
16:47<pharaun>[citation needed]
16:48-!-copperx [] has left #linode []
16:49<nosuchnick>join the line.
16:49<HoopyCat>for something designed to be compromised, they sure do get in a whiffy if particularly evil nations get ahold of it
16:50<nosuchnick>why make yer own job harder?
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17:15<vidak>Hi, need help with suPHP
17:15<vidak>a2enmod suphp, a2dismod php5 everything is OK
17:16<vidak>but when chmod -R 700 /home/some_dir... have error
17:16-!-miklb [] has joined #linode
17:16<vidak>with 750 works OK
17:16<akerl>vidak: 1) Why are you chmod'ing 700?
17:16<Parallax>Is there any way to upgrade to Ubuntu 11.10 beta via command line?
17:16<Parallax>Oneiric Ocelot
17:17<vidak>I want to disable other users to read files
17:17<akerl>vidak: Why?
17:17<navi>Parallax: Yes
17:17<hawk>Parallax: do-release-upgrade -d I would think
17:17<vidak>have several users on Ubuntu 11.04 and if all are in www-data group
17:17<navi>Parallax: "Install the package update-manager-core if it is not already installed. Then execute the command sudo do-release-upgrade -d, and follow the on-screen instructions."
17:18<pparadis>beta isn't out yet.
17:18<vidak>they can read other files
17:18<Parallax>Man, I must suck hard at google-fu, I couldn't find it
17:18<Parallax>Thanks guys
17:18<akerl>vidak: Who owns your php files?
17:18<vidak>user is me and I set group to www-data
17:19<akerl>vidak: If you chown 700, php can't read the files...
17:19<vidak>GID 33
17:19<akerl>vidak: Which makes it hard for php to, ya know, read the files.
17:20<akerl>vidak: Basically, if you want to host multiple sites, which can't read each other, you're going to need to look into a solution that allows php to use a different use for each site
17:20<vidak>akerl, ok
17:20<vidak>akerl, how to do that?
17:21*Knorrie thinks that's why vidak started about suphp, because that's the way to do that
17:21<akerl>Then, the files will be chowned to user=you, group=thatsite'sphp, with 750 permissions. So you can write, that site's php can read, nobody else can read/write
17:21<akerl>vidak: How are you currently running php?
17:21<navi>akerl: As fast as I can in the opposite direction
17:21<akerl>navi: :p
17:21<vidak>standar Ubuntu LAMP
17:22<vidak>mod php5
17:22<navi>Wow, Ubuntu's not going to come with the 3.0 kernel until 12.04 now
17:22<navi>I can't imagine how many noobs are going to cry about the fact they're not going to carry it, even though it's not much of a change
17:23<akerl>vidak: I've never done it, as I'm the only user of my node, but mpm_itk allows each vhost to have a separate user/group, not sure how that plays with mod_php
17:23<akerl>navi: I'd bet over half ubuntu's userbase doesn't know what a kernel is
17:23<vidak>akerl: Thanks
17:23<navi>He's the mascot of KFC, right?
17:23-!-imanc1 [] has joined #linode
17:24-!-miklb [] has left #linode [Be back later]
17:25<navi>Parallax: You might not want to install Alpha 1
17:26<navi>Parallax: Alpha 2 is coming in just under 5 days
17:26<Parallax>Can't I just upgrade to that when it comes out?
17:26<hawk>navi: Well, if that is so, I guess that's what you get with set release dates
17:26<navi>AlexC_: I don't know if you'd get a more stable experience skipping Alpha 1 (It is the first alpha)
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17:27<navi>I find from experience that the 2nd and on alpha and the 2nd and on beta are always a lot better
17:27<navi>like the people that don't install OS X until .1 (10.5.1, 10.6.1) and so on
17:27-!-pparadis [] has joined #linode
17:27-!-mode/#linode [+o pparadis] by ChanServ
17:27-!-mode/#linode [-o pparadis] by pparadis
17:27<akerl>navi: That's generally how updates work :p
17:28<navi>akerl: But the first release to the public or the first release to testers is always the one with the highest likelihood of finding crashers and data losers and so on?
17:28-!-JasonBox [] has joined #linode
17:29<navi>Oh, and I apologise, I'm completely wrong (or the wiki is). Kernel Freeze isn't until Sep 15, so 3 should get into oneiric
17:29-!-penis [] has joined #linode
17:29<penis>good morning
17:30<Parallax>I hope they made some changes to Unity in 11.10 because that thing kinda sucks
17:30<penis>what's up?
17:30<penis>who uses ubuntu anyways?
17:31<AviMarcus>OK, says the person with a nickname of..
17:31<Parallax>Don't get trolled that easily AviMarcus
17:31<penis>Parallax: it's not a troll
17:31<HoopyCat>the slicehoster with a nickname of...
17:31-!-imanc [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:31<akerl>Troll? Where?
17:32<penis>no trolls are anywhere
17:32<penis>stop being idiots, guys
17:32<AviMarcus>I know, 'cause you're so mature and all.
17:32<akerl>AviMarcus: Seriously. Stop feeding
17:33<Parallax><Parallax> Don't get trolled that easily AviMarcus
17:33*SleePy uses Ubuntu and isn't afraid to say it :P
17:33*SleePy also uses Debian and Centos.
17:34<navi>I hate people who can't pronounce it and make no attempt to try
17:34<hawk>SleePy: I'm more surprised you aren't afraid of saying you use centos :P
17:34<Parallax>Just call it that african OS
17:34<navi>I found one of my teachers' pronunciations funny, she calls it "You-bunny-2"
17:34<SleePy>lol hawk. Its not my choice to use Centos. I would rather they convert to debian
17:34<navi>I just stare in disbelief - it's not even spelt like that
17:35<navi>there's no extra 'ny' in it
17:35<penis>your teacher is a stupid cunt, navi
17:35-!-techhelper1 [] has joined #linode
17:35<trinitronx>lol... wrong xterm :P
17:35-!-rideh [] has joined #linode
17:36-!-zack_ [~zack@] has joined #linode
17:37<penis>i always call it you-boon-too, but apparently it's supposed to be ooh-bun-too
17:37*SleePy enables the v-chip.
17:37<navi>no, oo-boon-too
17:37<penis>boon, not bin?
17:37<penis>you sure?
17:37<AviMarcus>not you-bun-too?
17:38<penis>fuck it, just call it "that nigger OS"
17:38<pparadis>penis: that's not very friendly.
17:38<Nivex>wow, I don't think I've seen so much inappropriateness on one line in my entire career on IRC
17:39<AviMarcus>hawk, the freeswitch devs love centos because.. it doesn't change.
17:39<SleePy>Nivex, You don't go to some IRC channels I guess.
17:40<navi>ubuntu |oǒ'boǒntoō|
17:43<hawk>AviMarcus: Yeah, apparently so much that it doesn't even change when the thing they are copying changes...
17:44-!-copperx [] has joined #linode
17:44<navi>So, is CentOS 6 done now?
17:44-!-copperx [] has left #linode []
17:44<AviMarcus>navi, I don't know those funny pronunciation things. So how does that come out?
17:45<hawk>navi: That's like the new DNF
17:45<navi>hawk: Yeah
17:45<navi>hawk: DNF came out before CentOS. It was a joke that it probably would and then... it did.
17:45<hawk>Well, it did have a signficiant head start
17:46-!-charliepark [] has quit [Quit: charliepark]
17:46<akerl>AviMarcus: oo like in "sw(oo)n", boon, to
17:46<akerl>And hopefully centos 6 will be better than dnf
17:46<AviMarcus>what's dnf?
17:47<navi>duke nukem
17:47<akerl>duke nukem forver
17:47<AviMarcus>and the last oō navi?
17:47<navi>like the oo in good, I think
17:47<navi>sorry, no, akerl, we're wrong
17:47<akerl>AviMarcus: See above. oo-boon-to, where oo is like in sw(oo)n, and the other two are the words
17:48<akerl>Then how is it?
17:48<AviMarcus>oh sorry akerl I misread what you wrote
17:48<navi>the first two 'u's are like the oo in good
17:48<akerl>navi: Source?
17:48<navi>The wikipedia IPA, which is a translation of that thing I pasted into proper IPA
17:49-!-sm [] has joined #linode
17:49<navi>ʊ and ʊ' are unstressed and stressed versions respectively of f_oo_t, g_oo_d, f_u_ll, w_o_man
17:51<navi>and then the final uː is like g_oo_se, f_oo_d, f_oo_l, s_oo_n, ch_ew_, d_o_
17:51<akerl>navi: circa 0:22
17:52<navi>SO my first statement was right
17:52<akerl>oo boon to.
17:52<navi>I shouldn't have corrected myself from the official documentation
17:52<akerl>I believe nelson mandela :p
17:52<navi>But you-bun-two is definitely wrong
17:52<hawk>The ubuntu project seem to go with "oo-BOON-too" as their pronounciation guide
17:53<navi>Interesting, since that wikipedia listing shows the stress on the first particle
17:53<hawk>navi: Maybe they didn't read the wikipedia article?
17:53<AviMarcus>so not "you" :)
17:56-!-charliepark [] has joined #linode
17:57<navi>I can also confirm the pronunciation from the japanese pronunciation
17:57<navi>(ウブンツ) = u bu n tsu
17:57<navi>But only because they don't have a 'tu'.
17:57<navi>the 'u' and the 'bu' match nelson mandela's pronunciations
17:58-!-rideh [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:58<navi>Actually, Japan has the same problem as us
17:59<hawk>navi: Worth noting is that the stress mark (') is in front of the thing that is to be stressed according to the notes on IPA on wikipedia
17:59<penis>actually, none of you have any idea what you're talking about
17:59<navi>they use ウブンツ, ウブーンツ and ウーブンツ
17:59<navi>So they stress either the u, the bu, or neither
18:00<KyleXY>heckman: At that point at night I was long gone, heh
18:00<KyleXY>nohh: I'm not a cop ;)
18:00<hawk>KyleXY: That's what they all say
18:00<KyleXY>hawk: Hell, I wish I was a cop, lol
18:00*nohh flushes everything
18:00<KyleXY>that'd be fun to do.
18:01-!-akerl [~Les@2600:3c03::13:6000] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:01<KyleXY>hmmm, wonder if linbot has a phrase about capslock.
18:02<hawk>pharaun: Of course, this kind of stuff has to be sorted out
18:02*KyleXY shrugs
18:02<pharaun>hehe :) i just say "ubuntu" :>
18:02<hawk>pharaun: That's not very helpful in text
18:02-!-AviMarcus [~avi@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
18:03<KyleXY>Oh, I didn't know the bot had a plugin for availability ._.
18:03<pharaun>hawk: i know cos i don't voice so i literally spell it out ubuntu :)
18:03<+linbot>KyleXY: Dallas512 - 114, Dallas768 - 50, Dallas1024 - 70, Dallas1536 - 45, Dallas2048 - 20, Dallas4096 - 3, Dallas8192 - 2, Dallas12288 - 2, Dallas16384 - 2, Dallas20480 - 2
18:03<hawk>KyleXY: Quick, get those last Dallas20480's
18:03<KyleXY>hawk: hah,
18:03<pharaun>my thoughts exactly ^
18:04<KyleXY>I'd be better off buying my own hardware at that point and colo'ing
18:04<pharaun>it depends on if you want to deal with colo'ing, hardware failure, etc...
18:05<KyleXY>It'd be more economic at that point though, heh
18:05-!-eyecool [] has joined #linode
18:05<pharaun>in raw cost perhaps :)
18:06<pparadis>if your hardware fails in a colo environment, you're probably going to be down for a lot longer than it would take to recover from such an event with a linode.
18:06<KyleXY>Does Linode have an official application now? heh
18:06*KyleXY just saw the picture on the frontpage
18:06<pparadis>and with hardware, it's not a question of if it's going to fail, but when and how.
18:07<pparadis>KyleXY: there's an official iphone app, and i believe a couple of unofficial android apps.
18:07<KyleXY>Heh, /me looks
18:07<KyleXY>I can always just tether with my android
18:07<KyleXY>I love the Piwik application, heh
18:08-!-Frools [] has left #linode []
18:08-!-mode/#linode [+b *!*penis@*] by Perihelion
18:08-!-penis was kicked from #linode by Perihelion [o/]
18:08<KyleXY>Anyway, in regards to the 20480, I'd never need that much
18:08*navi is going to try editing an .ass file with his bare hands. He expects it to go wrong quickly
18:08-!-Frools [] has joined #linode
18:08<pparadis>Perihelion: ^5
18:08<pharaun>well played Perihelion
18:08<@Perihelion>Penises? On *my* IRC?
18:09-!-mode/#linode [+b penis!*@*] by Perihelion
18:09<@Perihelion>That ban is more hilarious than it should be.
18:09<pharaun>navi: eh its not too bad
18:09-!-akerl [~Les@2600:3c03::13:6000] has joined #linode
18:09<Nivex>perihelion bans all penis. film at 11.
18:09<KyleXY>Perihelion: At that point, I'd write an irssi trigger an enjoy the bans flooding in ._.
18:10<@jed>not news, Nivex
18:10<Nivex>oooooh. ouch.
18:10<@Perihelion>Quiet, butterball.
18:10-!-Zr40 [] has joined #linode
18:10<@jed>I love it when you talk dirty to me
18:10<KyleXY>Good call on that application
18:10<KyleXY>it'll make my life easy ._.
18:13<Parallax>I'm really enjoying how Firefox with 1 tab open is using 100% of my CPU
18:13<Parallax>thanks Firefox 5
18:13<KyleXY>Parallax: Man, when they started getting bad I had to switch to Chrome
18:13<Zr40>Parallax: which url?
18:13<KyleXY>have like 3 addons == hell.
18:14<Parallax>Yeah, it's especially bad on OSX
18:14<Parallax>Zr40: just a google search
18:14<KyleXY>Parallax: So good at one point, now Chrome surpassed it heh
18:14<Parallax>I'm going between Chrome and Firefox
18:15<Parallax>both have pros and cons
18:15<Nivex>I stick with Firefox out of inertia
18:15<KyleXY>Overall, weighted that Chrome was better for my cause
18:15<KyleXY>Go bitcoin miner go ._.
18:16-!-rideh [] has joined #linode
18:16<Nivex>KyleXY: why do you keep sending R at the end of all your lines?
18:16<Zr40>Parallax: no significant CPU usage here with Firefox 5 on OSX on a google search
18:16<KyleXY>Nivex: I'm not
18:17<akerl>Nivex: What are you talking about?
18:17<Zr40>Nivex: I'm not seeing that either
18:17<pharaun>same here
18:17<Nivex>dih dah dit is morse code R
18:17<HoopyCat>i see it too
18:17<HoopyCat>18:15 KyleXY Go bitcoin miner go ._.
18:17<Parallax>Zr40: Well, I'm running a fresh install of OSX, fresh install of Firefox, dunno what to tell ya
18:17<KyleXY>Nivex: Oh, it's a stupid emoticon that's grown on me
18:17<Nivex>yes, I'll emphasize the stupid
18:17-!-Steve^ [~steve@] has joined #linode
18:17<Nivex>I've had to break too many people of adding "lol" to *every* line
18:17<HoopyCat>having to shift for the _ is going to be pure disaster :-)
18:17<KyleXY>Nivex: It's better than "lol" this and "lol" that
18:18<Steve^>Hi, where does mailman store userdata?
18:18<HoopyCat>Steve^: on my ubuntu system, /var/lib/mailman/
18:18<Zr40>KyleXY: s/lol/nalol/g
18:18<navi>This file is broken like I thought
18:18<akerl>Interesting. It seems that /etc/rc.d/postgresql start fails, but postgres ends up running...
18:18<akerl>No errors in the log either.
18:18<Steve^>HoopyCat, looks right, thanks
18:19<KyleXY>akerl: Weird,
18:19<KyleXY>akerl: package system? What distro
18:19<HoopyCat>The SSL certicate can be renewed for as little as one year and for a price as low as $148.88. RENEW TODAY!
18:19<KyleXY>AUR or in the repos
18:20<KyleXY>I tried about a week ago, hadn't happened to me
18:20*KyleXY shrugs
18:20<HoopyCat>welp, looks like it's gonna be IPv6, SNI, or FOAD, 'cuz this here wildcard ain't gettin' renewed :-)
18:20<Zr40>HoopyCat: that's... quite a lot
18:20<Nivex>HoopyCat: I like option 1
18:20<KyleXY>HoopyCat: I'd love a wildcard, heh, but they're soooo espensive
18:20<Zr40>Nivex, HoopyCat: I like option 1 + 2
18:20<Steve^>Is Ubuntu the "most supported" by Linode, in terms of Library articles and such? I don't mind which I use, but the more help the better
18:21<pparadis>yes, ubuntu and debian are very well supported in the library.
18:21<KyleXY>Steve^: pretty much debian, yeah
18:21<Nivex>Zr40: IPv6 is already supported in all OSes and browsers. SNI is not.
18:21<KyleXY>But there is plenty for all the distro's imho
18:21<Zr40>Nivex: which browsers don't support SNI?
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18:21<KyleXY>and some of it's pretty much the same when you go over distro, just need to get the packages,
18:22<KyleXY>(in reference to configuring them)
18:22<Zr40>I'd say more browsers support SNI than hosts have working IPv6 connections
18:22<HoopyCat>Zr40: wildcard certs tend to be a little steep, but it was nice to have around for experimentation
18:22<HoopyCat>pparadis is an optimist, Nivex is a pessimist
18:22<KyleXY>pparadis: Nivex: Haha, sync ;)
18:22<Nivex>Zr40: yes, but we need IPv6 for other reasons.
18:22<Steve^>KyleXY, the thing that annoys me the most is how the distros put files in different places
18:22<KyleXY>Steve^: most of the time it's in /etc for configuration files
18:22<KyleXY>and /var for data
18:22<Zr40>Nivex: of course. IPv6 support is never bad
18:23<Zr40>Nivex: hmm. doesn't look there's anything significant that doesn't support SNI
18:23<KyleXY>I'll be right back..
18:23<HoopyCat>Steve^: be glad most distros follow the FHS at least :-)
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18:24<Nivex>Zr40: oh, Apache Tomcat isn't significant
18:24<Nivex>probably not since you can just front it with httpd
18:24<Zr40>Nivex: that's server side, which hopefully you control.
18:24*Nivex hates tomcat
18:24<HoopyCat>Zr40: wget, android, and python 2.x will probably affect me most
18:24<Nivex>I'm really not a big fan of Java in general, but at least Solr doesn't suck.
18:25<HoopyCat>... wait, default python doesn't give half a dick about verifying SSL certificates anyway
18:25<Zr40>HoopyCat: why hasn't anyone fixed wget yet? :P
18:25<pparadis>it's fixed upstream.
18:25<Nivex>Zr40: dunno. go have a look at the code and report back.
18:25<pparadis>hasn't made its way to many distros yet though.
18:29<Steve^>does each Linode have a single IP and a single Linux running at a time?
18:29<SleePy>I hate the fact that pc manufactures don't include a cd to reinstall everything. Got a computer here that was rooted and has infected the MBR. A big pain to fix it without being able to wipe the drive clean
18:29<akerl>Steve^: Each linode can only run one configuration profile at once
18:29<akerl>The number of IPs depends
18:29<Steve^>if the IP has to go to the same place, then that doesn't help me
18:29<navi>VLC is doing something weird to my .ass fonts, and I'm going to make it my life's mission to find out what
18:30<akerl>Steve^: Why? What are you trying to accomplish?
18:30<Nivex>navi: VLC is screwing you in the .ass ?
18:30<navi>Nivex: It always does
18:30<Steve^>akerl, nothing really, I'm just understanding my boundaries
18:30<akerl>Then multiple IPs are very helpful.
18:30<Steve^>for what?
18:30<navi>Nivex: I've clearly stated a font I want it to use for subtitling in the .ass file. It's using a different one which doesn't have all the characters I'm trying to display.
18:31<akerl>Having multiple addresses?
18:31<navi>Nivex: I'm getting stabby.
18:31<akerl>Multiple SSL sites without SNI? Serving different sites on different IPs? Having multiple web servers both on port 80?
18:31<Steve^>all good reasons :)
18:31<avenj>plus think of all the irc vanity vhosts
18:33<Steve^>Lets say I wanted to switch to another linux and I couldn't have downtime (luckily I can and don't need to), I'd need to get a new Linode, set it up, then switch across, then can the old Linode?
18:33<pparadis>multiple web servers are easily accomplished with either ProxyPass in apache or by proxying back from nginx.
18:33<pparadis>no reason to slap additional IPs into that mix.
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18:33<akerl>Steve^: Yes.
18:34<pparadis>other web servers have similar abilities as well, of course, but apache and nginx do seem to be the ones in heaviest use these days.
18:34<Steve^>akerl, ok, cool - I shall put my faith in dist-upgrade then
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18:41<akerl>I've discovered that attempting to switch from port to socket on postgres is what's breaking it
18:44-!-jboom [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:44<Steve^>The more I think about the files I haven't got on backup, the more I see $5 a month as a worthy investment
18:44<Steve^>But I wonder if I should be backing up the really important files in my normal way anyway
18:44<pparadis>you should be.
18:45<Zr40>Steve^: if they're really important, don't rely on a single backup
18:45<pparadis>$0.16/day is a super cheap price to pay for the linode backups, but you should always have offsite backups as well.
18:45<pparadis>the linode backups will get you back in action really quickly, and you've got the offsite stuff for the "meteor hit the datacenter" scenario.
18:46<Steve^>So the backup is saving the cost of having to configure a new linode
18:46<Steve^>which I admit, would be annoying
18:47<pparadis>yup, when you restore a backup, it gives you the full system as it was when it was backed up.
18:47<Steve^>how does it cope with databases and internal states and stuff?
18:47<pparadis>you need to do regular dumps for that stuff.
18:47<akerl>Steve^: It copes better if you dump your db to the node.
18:47<hawk>Steve^: It doesn't really, it takes a snapshot and snags the files from there
18:48<Steve^>hmm, so in the case of failure, I'll still be restoring MySQL from my own backups
18:48<akerl>Basically, the snapshot of a live database is going to suck, but the snapshot will save a dump of the database that is a file on the server
18:48<pparadis>it's entirely possible that your backup would be consistent, but you cannot guarantee that for databases and such, so the key truly is setting up a cron job to do dumps, which will be backed up fully consistently.
18:49<hawk>Steve^: Well, you can have your own backup be stored and restored with all the other files, but yes
18:49<Zr40>akerl: the backups page mentions '[performing] any database dumps', so I suspect it doesn't work from a snapshot
18:49<akerl>So if you're dumping the db regularly (automatically) for whatever backups you are already doing, the linode backup manager will save that
18:49<Steve^>and hope the database dump is consistent with the rest of the file dump
18:49<akerl>Zr40: ??
18:49<pparadis>also -->
18:49<akerl>Zr40: If you have a cron job that dumps the db, the linode backup manager will snapshot the dump file just like all the other files
18:50<Zr40>akerl: of course. that's the point :P
18:50<Zr40>akerl: but it's a file copy, not an instant disk snapshot
18:50<hawk>Steve^: If you have some set of files that should be consistent with the db, then it starts to get a bit complex (regardless of how you back up)
18:51<akerl>Zr40: It will copy all your files, exactly as they were at one instant in time.
18:51<akerl>Zr40: If that's not a snapshot, I'm not sure what a snapshot it
18:51<Steve^>hawk, I'm thinking only of image uploads to a CMS
18:51<pparadis>of course, you're going to face the same exact problem with other backup methods as well.
18:51<Zr40>akerl: not necessarily. with the right timing you can change two files at the same moment such that the current backup only picks up one
18:51<pparadis>unless you're backing things up from a system that's shut down, of course.
18:52<Steve^>is the time of a Linode backup predictable? So that you can schedule other backups accordingly?
18:52<Zr40>Steve^: yes.
18:52<hawk>Steve^: Not quite
18:52<pparadis>Steve^: you can set it according to that library article.
18:52<pparadis>well, you can set a window.
18:52<hawk>Steve^: There's a time-frame of two hours that it should happen within
18:52<hawk>(is it two?)
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18:52<Steve^>that's a fair while
18:52<pparadis>hey, just make sure you run your dumps before the window :)
18:53<hawk>pparadis: Steve^'s problem seems to be a set changing files that should be consistent with his db dump, though...
18:54<pparadis>certainly, there could be such scenarios. i'd say the answer would be that you would have to roll things back to that point in time.
18:54<Steve^>given that my files come from Linode and my db comes from my own cron
18:54<pparadis>to get around that, you might consider streaming updates to a slave DB server.
18:54<Zr40>workaround: tar the group of files you want to be backed up consistently, rename the tar once it's done tarring
18:54<pparadis>that requires another server, though.
18:54<Zr40>actually, ignore that
18:55<Zr40>the tarred files themselves can be changed while tarring
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18:58<Steve^>I'll put this back on the theoretical shelf
18:58<Steve^>one to worry about when I've made a few more $$$
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19:08<GLaDOSDan>CSS hates me; can anyone tell me how to fix "Graphics by..." being pushed to the right by the twitter logo on this page?
19:09<GLaDOSDan>if I remove the twitter logo, it aligns properly in the middle
19:09<pharaun>Zr40: don't forget to feather your files
19:10<pharaun>GLaDOSDan: not sure, my first thought would be to break it up into 2 divs one center, one right aligned, but there might be better way to do it
19:11<GLaDOSDan>let's see
19:11<GLaDOSDan>the left align div is inside the center div
19:11<GLaDOSDan>otherwise twitter logo is above/below the text, not floating alongside
19:11<pharaun>GLaDOSDan: erhm left aligned i mean, not right :)
19:12<pharaun>think of it like 2 box, one with the twitter logo, other box with everything else in it and that floated right
19:12<jtsage>GLaDOSDan: throw a negative right margin on the image div - it's pusing the text... ( margin-right: -118px will do it in chrome, ymmv in other browsers)
19:13<GLaDOSDan>I'll try that
19:13<pharaun>would need to tweak that, i prefer to use em myself but eh
19:13<Zr40>GLaDOSDan: the logo has float:left. because the third line starts below the float the left side isn't pushed by the float
19:13<pharaun>your mileage may vary
19:13<jtsage>pharaun: aye, I do love the em too, but as it's an image, it does have a (probably) fixed size :)
19:14<pharaun>jtsage: true
19:14<GLaDOSDan>so uhm, what am I doing here
19:14<GLaDOSDan>negative right margin?
19:14<pharaun>GLaDOSDan: yes, just do margin-right and put a negative value
19:14<pharaun>off you go
19:16*GLaDOSDan troubled face
19:16<GLaDOSDan>not sure if I can be bothered to do anything about that
19:16<GLaDOSDan>I probably...should
19:17<pharaun>GLaDOSDan: you should :p
19:17<jtsage>media queries ftw...
19:17<pharaun>haven't done that yet on my site
19:17<GLaDOSDan>(we're talking about the footer here right)
19:17<pharaun>its restricted to ~40em wide at the min i think, need to look into how to deal with it on the iphone/other
19:17<jtsage>at this point. my OCD would eventually generate a smaller version of the header image too :)
19:17<Zr40>GLaDOSDan: right
19:20<Zr40>would setting min-weight to the header width on body break anything?
19:22<Zr40>results in on a desktop browser
19:22<GLaDOSDan>oh that does fix it
19:22<GLaDOSDan>what did you do there?
19:23<Parallax>what is that?
19:23<Zr40>I set min-width:700px on body
19:23<jtsage>ew. then there is side scroll. better to wrap the twitter image div in a class, and not float it on narrow displays.
19:23<Zr40>700px being the header image width
19:24<GLaDOSDan>i'm not really bothered about side scrolling, on smaller resolutions the application requires side scrolling anyway
19:24<pharaun>yeah, i did set a min-width: 40em; on my site i think but that's cos i haven't figure out how to deal with narrow browser like iphones yet :\
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19:25<Steve^>iphones don't have narrow browsers
19:26<brods>ya doesn't the iphone just make you scroll about or zoom
19:26<Steve^>phones lie horrendously about their display sizes and then zoom
19:27<Zr40>Steve^: you can set some viewport settings to prevent that
19:27<pharaun>yes but can't you detect those with media-type ?
19:27<pharaun>and serve up a modified css to better work with them?
19:27<Steve^>kind of
19:28<Steve^>the end result is only with a massive headache
19:28<Steve^>and probably some javascript
19:28<pharaun>ah :\ i've managed to for most part avoid javascript on my site
19:29<pharaun>its ok down to about the width of the menubar and then i put in min-width to stop it from shrinking further cos it goes all wonky
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19:29<Steve^>the problem is that they lie, there is some scaling property you can mess with, but in the examples I was shown there was no solution
19:30<Steve^>oh I remember
19:30<Steve^>tablets were the problem
19:30<pharaun>how so? i thought the ipad was like 1024x768 just flipped around
19:31<Steve^>This is coming from memory of a demo
19:31<Zr40>pharaun: it's 1024x768 or 768x1024 depending on how you hold it
19:31<Steve^>but I think that tablets and phones may identify themselves in similar ways, but you want completely different results
19:32<Steve^>it's saved because desktop browsers ignore the scaling parameters, as they are always one screen pixel to one page pixel
19:32<pharaun>Zr40: that's what i mean by the flipped around cos the normal way that i usually see it is with that... button thing on the bottm
19:32<Steve^>whereas on a phone the zoom gives many page pixels to a single screen pixel
19:32<pharaun>Steve^: ah
19:32<Steve^>I should test it myself.. if I had a tablet
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20:00<DrJ>it would be cool and nice if linode made an option to use google authenticator for the linode login
20:03-!-marcopkb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:05-!-akerl [~Les@2600:3c03::13:6000] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:08<hawk>DrJ: Ah, the evil authenticator of doom
20:12<pwnguin>i know stackOverflow had problems with google's openid implementation
20:12<+linbot>HoopyCat: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
20:12<hawk>DrJ: Kind of an preemptive declaration of evilness
20:12<pwnguin>not sure what 'google authenticator' is
20:13<+linbot>HoopyCat: Point (0.30477834, 0.48191356) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 98952 of 125664 (π ≈ 3.149732620320856 - 0.008139966731063). http://π
20:13<pwnguin>hurray monte carlo
20:13<pwnguin>i did that one time on my TI 85 in geometry class
20:14-!-techhelper1 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:14<pwnguin>needless to say, it was a slow convergence
20:14<+linbot>chesty: P0!n+ (0.41478493, 0.04303196) 1!3z w!+h!n +h3 un!+ c!rc13. H!+z: 98954 0f 125667 (π ≈ 3.149721088272976 - 0.008128434683182). h++p://π.h00pyc@.c0m/
20:15-!-lunks [] has joined #linode
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20:15<pwnguin>j00r bot is haxed
20:16-!-CompWizdr [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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20:18<pparadis>sha512 moar better
20:19-!-Bass10 [] has joined #linode
20:21<squircle>if I resize an ext3 image in the Linode Manager, will it automatically resize the filesystem, or do I have to do that myself?
20:24-!-jboom [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:24<Parallax>OK these constant beachballs on Firefox are just ridiculous
20:24<Parallax>go to hell Firefox
20:24<Parallax>hi Chrome
20:24<squircle>yay chrome!
20:26<synapt>... 'beachballs on firefox'?
20:28<hawk>Btw, who h4xx0red up the pi-url that linbot spits out? Was much more convenient when the actual url was shown
20:31-!-shedammit is now known as Guest730
20:31<navi>hawk: Huh?
20:31-!-shedammit [] has joined #linode
20:31<+linbot>HoopyCat: Point (0.38498799, 0.43453108) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 98955 of 125669 (π ≈ 3.149702790664364 - 0.008110137074571). http://π
20:31<HoopyCat>works for me
20:31-!-Guest730 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:32<hawk>I wasn't paying attention.. .I just saw the last line of the "other" thing at the top of the screen
20:32<+linbot>hawk: P0!n+ (0.41478493, 0.04303196) 1!3z w!+h!n +h3 un!+ c!rc13. H!+z: 98954 0f 125667 (π ≈ 3.149721088272976 - 0.008128434683182). h++p://π.h00pyc@.c0m/
20:33<tjfontaine>utf8 oh snap
20:33<hawk>When I scrolled back, of course I realized what was up
20:34<eyecool>is there a status page for services?
20:36<eyecool>my backups have been failing for a few days... wondering if it's just me
20:36<hawk>eyecool: Some kind of overview? Or like
20:36<eyecool>hawk: perfect, thanks!
20:36<tjfontaine>eyecool: you should put in a ticket as well jsut to make sure everyone who needs to know knows
20:37<eyecool>I even thought of trying that url, but searched the site instead..
20:38<eyecool>sometimes intuition > search
20:38<eyecool>tjfontaine: good idea.. logging one now
20:45<chesty>Oops! Google Chrome could not find
20:45<Nivex>you no havvy IPv6
20:45<Zr40>chesty: works fine here
20:45<+linbot>Nivex: 2600:3c03::13:3142
20:46<chesty>no v6 here
20:46<Nivex>why not?
20:47<chesty>don't have the right equipment to implement it
20:48<pharaun>HE tunnel ?
20:48<pharaun>that's what i am doing atm
20:51<Zr40>same here
20:52<pharaun>looks like its time to bounce my node to ipv6, need to get it done, any gotcha?
20:52<Nivex>pharaun: nope. it Just Works™
20:52<Zr40>it must reboot to get a new MAC address. on some distros the interface name might change
20:53<Nivex>Zr40: good call. I forgot about the Ubuntu udev mappings
20:53<pharaun>k, proceeding with the ipv6 goodness then :>
20:53<pharaun><- debian
20:53<Nivex>when I bounced my debian machine it was no problem
20:53<HoopyCat>pharaun: you should be fine
20:53<eyecool>anyone running ipv6 only? (no 4 at all)
20:53<HoopyCat>eyecool: for a couple websites, yeah. ;-)
20:53<Zr40>eyecool: there's no benefit to that
20:54<mig5>sure there is: no ipv4 visitors
20:54<Nivex>eyecool: I haven't gotten that brave. I was thinking the next IPv6 day ought to include a shut off of v4 for some amount of time
20:54<Zr40>(at least from a client perspective)
20:54<mig5>i have a vps elsewhere that only does ipv6, and outbound ipv4 NAT
20:54<HoopyCat>at home, IPv4 is NAT'd to a single public IP, so we have degraded IPv4 connectivity compared to IPv6
20:54<eyecool>I've thought about it... messed around a bit but turned around before going full on live
20:55<pharaun>:o seems like i'm on latest 2.6 legancy, safe to update it? (debian 6)
20:55<HoopyCat>pharaun: go for it. it's where the love is
20:56<eyecool>it made me think, get ready for ipv6 like phone #'s in the future. they will be long and ugly...
20:56<mig5>if you want debian + ipv6 you will *need* a kernel higher than 2.6.18 if you want to do ipv6 conntrack'ing
20:56<Zr40>I've noticed I'm getting AAAA records for Google... because my tunnel server failed last week :P
20:56<pharaun>yeah i'm doing ipv6 now, updating the kernel, +disk space, etc, gosh been a while since i've bounced the machine :)
20:57*HoopyCat is pulling the finger on hardy->lucid tonight
20:57<pparadis>you're farting on it?
20:57<Nivex>HoopyCat: pulling the trigger or giving the finger?
20:57<HoopyCat>worst part is that if this turns out to be a bad idea and i accidentally the whole system, !facepalm won't work
20:57<pharaun>btw do i need to actually do a reboot again? my node is currently offline so i can do the disk stuff
20:57<chesty>rather flatuous eh @ HoopyCat
20:58<Zr40>pharaun: probably not
20:58<pharaun>>:( it just booted it up, ah well
20:58<Zr40>pharaun: unless you turn it on before enabling ipv6
20:58<HoopyCat>chesty: it's the least i could do to indicate the presence of organic life
20:58<pharaun>yeah i had it off so i could deal with the disks first
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20:59<eyecool>pharaun: I'd think you want it on, then enable ipv6, then reboot... better safe than sorry
21:00*HoopyCat giggles
21:00<HoopyCat>... sorry
21:00<Zr40>eyecool: nah. worst thing that can happen is you have to reboot
21:01<pharaun>just did a 2nd reboot to be sure :)
21:01<pharaun>\o/ i haz ipv6
21:01<eyecool>a whole bunch of them
21:02<pharaun>do we get the 4096 ipv6 when we hit the button in the manger or do we still need to ticket for that?
21:02<Zr40>pharaun: ticket, according to
21:02<pharaun>that's what i figured
21:02<eyecool>their value is like btcoins..
21:02<HoopyCat>apt-listchanges: Mailing root: apt-listchanges: news for framboise
21:02<Nivex>remember folks, two of oftc's three ipv6 IRC nodes are in linode data centers, so connecting to them from a linode in the same DC doesn't count against your transfer quota :)
21:02<Zr40>pharaun: but if there's a button, that page might be outdated
21:03<Zr40>Nivex: it's not like IRC requires a ton of data
21:03<pharaun>yeah there is a button to request ipv6 but i don't see one for the 4096 ones... guess i'll ticket to be safe
21:03<Nivex>Zr40: I know :)
21:03<HoopyCat>i hate it when i sit there and block the upgrade to read 30 pages of this crap, and *then* it e-mails everything i just read to me
21:03<pharaun>btw reverse dns still seems to only trigger for ipv4 on the manager console
21:03<HoopyCat>pharaun: the pool can add on the fly
21:03<retro|blah>pharaun: nope its for v6 too turns out
21:03<Nivex>pharaun: A and AAAA both work for me for setting rDNS
21:04<retro|blah>try it
21:04<HoopyCat>pharaun: and you added an AAAA record for your noew IPv6 address already!?
21:04<Nivex>what HoopyCat said
21:04<pharaun>haha i haven't done the dns thing yet, i need to figure out wtf up with godaddy on how to do the glue
21:05<HoopyCat>pharaun: you don't need to do the glue if you use the linode DNS servers ;-)
21:05<HoopyCat>this is the state of the motherfscking art shit, bro
21:05<pharaun>HoopyCat: oh? so i just need to add the ipv6 shit into the dns and off i go? :o
21:05-!-CompWizrd [] has quit [Ping timeout: 482 seconds]
21:06<HoopyCat>pharaun: add a new A/AAAA record, and instead of putting in your IPv4 address, put in your IPv6 address. done
21:06*HoopyCat just turned his glue records into a horse last night
21:06<pharaun>that's bitching!
21:06<Nivex>HoopyCat: backwards as usual :)
21:07<HoopyCat>Please update your php.ini file. Maybe you must also change your web-server configuraton.
21:07<pharaun>no php here
21:07<HoopyCat>no, that's for me
21:08<HoopyCat>you're all set... you have your boarding pass, you've cleared security, you've got a seat assignment
21:09-!-Zr40 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:09<HoopyCat>Unpacking replacement libc6 ...
21:09<Nivex>HoopyCat: shit just got real!
21:10<pharaun>bloody excellent, booting now :>
21:10<HoopyCat>Nivex: yeah, my heart rate just increased somewhat :-)
21:11<pharaun>interesting, getting "Bad or expired console session." in lish :x
21:12-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
21:12<HoopyCat>pharaun: ssh >> ajax+firefox >> ajax+chrome
21:13<+linbot>HoopyCat: Point (0.65464694, 0.89355148) falls outside of the unit circle. Hits: 98959 of 125675 (π ≈ 3.149679729460911 - 0.008087075871118). http://π
21:13*HoopyCat smells burning
21:13<pharaun>yeah i'm in firefox, trying the ssh lish thing now
21:14<+linbot>praetorian: Now 33% full (about 23 hours remaining). Last emptied yesterday at 14:55 UTC, last full yesterday at 09:45 UTC after running for 33.8 hours.
21:15<pharaun>ok in lish now -> "Your Linode isn't running, or another console session is already active." WTF
21:15<pharaun>i just booted the blasted node
21:15-!-Jippi [] has quit [Quit: Jippi]
21:15<retro|blah>so keep hittin g enter
21:15<retro|blah>thats what i do
21:16<Nivex>is the start job still in the queue?
21:16<pharaun>it was the blasted TERM var
21:16<pharaun>i have rxvt-unicode-256color
21:17<pharaun>and it was choking on it, switched to xterm and it just let me in
21:17<Nivex>tjfontaine: any plans to add rDNS records to the hosts?
21:20<pharaun>interesting, ipv4 isn't working but once i ssh'd to the ipv6 address, ipv4 started working 0_o
21:23<pharaun>there, seems like lighttpd is using ipv6 already and everythings all setup now :>
21:23<HoopyCat>pharaun: things get a little weird when an IP moves to a new MAC address, until a few packets have gone out
21:23<pharaun>HoopyCat: i suppose, arp and all of that or something on linode's side?
21:23-!-SamT [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:24<pharaun>\o/ looks like i'm all set, got ipv6 going, ipv4 going, website loads fine with ipv6 too :>
21:24<HoopyCat>pharaun: nod
21:24<Nivex>pharaun: huzzah!
21:26<tjfontaine>Nivex: not to anything that would match reality, why?
21:27<Nivex>would just be helpful when I'm looking at netstat outputs is all
21:27<tjfontaine>Nivex: I can probably add the 3 linode ones, but others I have no control over :)
21:27<HoopyCat>wow, crazy... 8 GPS sats and ~33 foot accuracy from satellite-based GPS from my cellphone on my desk in my office
21:28<tjfontaine>Nivex: remind me tuesday?
21:28<HoopyCat>-# Comment the next two lines to disable Spoof protection (reverse-path filter)
21:28<HoopyCat>+# Uncomment the next two lines to enable Spoof protection (reverse-path filter)
21:28*Nivex adds to calendar
21:29<Nivex>I only see two linode ones in the answer I get back. I assume 3c01 is fremont and 3c03 is newark
21:30-!-redgore [~redgore@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:31<tjfontaine>the third is london of course
21:31-!-squircle [] has quit [Quit: this is not the default quit message]
21:36-!-SamT [] has joined #linode
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21:39<+linbot>pharaun: 2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe96:1909,
21:44<Cromulent>since there seem to be lots of python guys in this channel if anyone uses django and has not heard of django-compressor - go start using it now! automatic css and js minification (including ahead of time minification and cache busting naming) using simple django template commands is awesome
21:45<Cromulent>instead of writing your own custom deployment scripts
21:45-!-epochwolf [] has joined #linode
21:45<Cromulent>wish I had found about this earlier :|
21:45<Cromulent>found out*
21:45<pharaun>nice :) is there any "gotchas"
21:46<Cromulent>recommends using memcached or another "proper" cache if that counts as a gotcha
21:47<Cromulent>plus you need to edit your base templates to include the correct tags which might be a pain if you haven't made proper use of template inheritance
21:47<HoopyCat>Cromulent: alas, we cloudfront that stuff, but dang if i don't like those template tags
21:48<Cromulent> for reference anyway
21:48-!-blindwaves [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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21:48<pharaun>nice tags, personally i'm a huge fan of jinja2
21:48<pharaun>you can config what tags they use
21:50*eyecool says pharaun --> always on the lookout for "gotchas"
21:50<Cromulent>I like the look of jinja2 but I'm wary of going with a custom template engine with django stuff incase it causes unforeseen issues down the road
21:50<Cromulent>even if it is pretty darn similar
21:51<Cromulent>if I was using pyramid i'd probably use py-moustache
21:51-!-DrJ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:51<pharaun>oh i know that's the biggest downside of using jinja2 with django but i use jinja2 for all of my templating needs cos i'm mainly doing "yaml -> txt/latex/html" so the config-able tags is a godsent
21:52<HoopyCat>System upgrade is complete.
21:52<Cromulent>grats :p
21:53<navi>HoopyCat: rm -rf / is the system upgrade, right?
21:55*HoopyCat pushes the happy button
21:55<+linbot>HoopyCat: Point (0.71962209, 0.46522657) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 98962 of 125678 (π ≈ 3.149700027053263 - 0.008107373463470). http://π
21:55-!-HoopyCat [] has quit [Quit: BOOM]
22:01<Cromulent>the author(s) of textmate really made a fantastic marketing move getting pretty much the entire ruby community using their editor..
22:01<Cromulent>or rails community rather
22:07-!-lunks [] has quit [Quit: lunks]
22:08-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
22:08<pharaun>i thought textmate was basically dead
22:08<pparadis>heck no, i'm using it right now.
22:08<pharaun>that "textmate2" was never coming :p
22:08<pparadis><3 textmate
22:08<Cromulent>watch a video about rails and 99.9% chance they use textmate
22:08<pharaun>does textmate have VIM keybinding?
22:08<pharaun>haha i noticed
22:09<pparadis>textmate is what you use if you otherwise like vim.
22:09<pparadis>have you used it?
22:09<Cromulent>not that I know of I thought it had emacs bindings though - I know BBEdit does
22:09<pharaun>i like vim, thei mpression i got was that textmate used emacs alike keybindings
22:09<pharaun>thus i'm naturally not going to like it :)
22:09<navi>Everyone loves emacs
22:09<pharaun>i hate emacs
22:09-!-JSharp [] has joined #linode
22:10<navi>Emacs is the best thing in the words
22:10<Cromulent>if your Ctrl key breaks and you use emacs you're screwed
22:10<pparadis>pharaun: you really should try textmate.
22:10<navi>Cromulent: And if your esc key breaks on vim?
22:10<pharaun>pparadis: i don't have a mac :) but i'll be getting one for a new job
22:10<pharaun>pparadis: but i thought it used emacs keybinding thus.... ?
22:11<Cromulent>navi: you just remap the esc key in your config :p
22:11<pparadis>it's true about the keybindings, but of everyone i know who uses textmate, they would otherwise use vim.
22:11<pharaun>my problem is i've tried emacs a few time, every time within hours
22:11<pharaun>my hands are hurting :|
22:11<pharaun>and i go back to vim
22:12<Cromulent>I wish Xcode had vim key bindings :|
22:12<pharaun>er how can i remap the keys to like :wq or etc? :)
22:13<pparadis>why would you do that?
22:13<pparadis>command + w = close window, command + s = save, command + q = quit, etc
22:13<Cromulent>because :wq greater than cmd + s and cmd + q
22:14<pparadis>hey, if that floats your boat, sure.
22:14<Cromulent>perhaps it is just muscle memory though
22:14-!-lunks [] has joined #linode
22:14<pparadis>if i'm shelled into something, vim is certainly fine, but i otherwise use textmate for anything local.
22:15<Parallax>Espresso here
22:15*Cromulent just realised he had blocked dhcp requests on his linode :(
22:15<Cromulent>it was awesome
22:16<@heckman>Mark Zuckerberg is on Google+
22:16<navi>Is he on Ping?
22:16-!-Hoggs [] has joined #linode
22:19<pharaun>god i love my apartment complex
22:19<pharaun>they are trying to rip me off and doing an fraud
22:19<pharaun>time to find me a lawyer
22:19<navi>Sue 'em
22:20<pharaun>pparadis: my problem is the ctrl+alt+shift+q keypress that murders my hand, i prefer vim modal interface to be able to do all things with single letter strokes or maybe a couple like "5dd" to delete 5 lines
22:22<pparadis>sure, use what you like :)
22:23<pparadis>you can also do whatever macros you like in textmate, though.
22:23<pparadis>and there are bundles that do really neat stuff.
22:24<pparadis>mikegrb would be someone to talk to about all the ways textmate can really be used, as i'm more of a "basic stuff works for me" kind of guy.
22:25<pharaun>pparadis: ah, alrighty :) i'll poke mikegrb sometime then
22:25<pparadis>word yo
22:25<pharaun>if i can do keyboard macros that might be nice :)
22:30-!-SputnikSeven [] has joined #linode
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22:33<amitz>heckman: I wonder if sergey is in facebook too.
22:35-!-Sputnik7 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:42<KyleXY>heckman: Guessing you're in Google+ then, eh?
22:45-!-edgarfs [] has joined #linode
22:49<@heckman>KyleXY: yes.
22:49<KyleXY>heckman: They happen to give invites to those in it yet?
22:50-!-maushu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:56-!-mathew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:00-!-JSharp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:06-!-oojacoboo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06-!-oojacoboo_ is now known as oojacoboo
23:14*KyleXY did something stupid with his auto completion fo < 3
23:15<KyleXY> -- magenta heart, yay.
23:15-!-akerl [~Les@2600:3c03::13:6000] has joined #linode
23:21-!-zap151 [] has joined #linode
23:21-!-lunks [] has quit [Quit: lunks]
23:21<zap151>I need help to set up my linode.
23:22<zap151>I am toally confused with the interface and the library didnt help me much.
23:22<akerl>zap151: What are you attempting to do?
23:22<zap151>Set up my wordpress blog
23:22<akerl>zap151: I meant "at what point in the process are you stuck"
23:23<zap151>I installed a wp stackscript and I am done configuring the DNS
23:23<zap151>How do I get to connect them ?
23:23<akerl>zap151: Firstly, I'd advise learning to configure a server yourself, rather than using the stackscripts, so that you understand what's going on.
23:24<akerl>But as far as your question, what are you attempting to "connect"?
23:24<akerl>The DNS and the server?
23:24<zap151>I have a 4 GB wp backup file,which I moved from my ex-host provider.
23:25<zap151>I need to move the site to my ne linode.
23:25<akerl>Did you configure your domains (at the registrar's site) to point to linode's nameservers
23:25<zap151>yup .
23:25<akerl>And you configured the linode dns manager so that the necessary hostnames point to your node's IP?
23:26<akerl>That'd be the next step then.
23:27<zap151>Okay,I finished it.
23:27<zap151>Do I have to create a Cname record as well ?
23:27<zap151>the A record points to the node's IP.
23:27<synapt>Can't have a CNAME and an A record
23:27<synapt>it's "bad mojo"
23:28-!-zack_ [~zack@] has quit [Quit: zack_]
23:28<zap151>I have my A record set up.
23:29<akerl>Then you're gonna want to wait for the dns records to update (happens on each quarter hour), and try to connect to your site
23:29<zap151>and then where do I go to get to see my WP files ?
23:29-!-edgarfs [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
23:29<zap151>I previously used a Cpanel,I didnt find anything in linode.
23:30<akerl>zap151: You need to ssh into your linode.
23:30<zap151>Do I have to set up ispconfig ?
23:30<zap151>okay,and then ?
23:30<JoeK>caker: you use weak xeons :P
23:30<akerl>You can, but realistically you're better off learning to use the terminal to admin your server
23:30-!-tunabananas [] has joined #linode
23:31<zap151>I am total noob to Linux ..:\
23:31<pparadis>zap151: <-- this stuff might be really helpful
23:31-!-looplog [~archloop@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:31<zap151>thanks :)
23:32<zap151>any other guides to help me administer my site using the terminal ?
23:32<akerl>Yup. It's really not that hard to learn. It's gonna take some effort, but it's better in the long term rather than using a GUI, and not knowing how to fix things when they go wrong.
23:32<pparadis>zap151: the stuff in that category is all super helpful basic info, including using the terminal.
23:32<akerl>zap151: Basically, the linode library covers how to install and configure all the basic services, with guides on updating packages and ssh keys and the like
23:32<pparadis>the rest of the library will give you step by step instructions on configuring tons of stuff once you've got the basics down.
23:33<zap151>Thanks for the help.
23:33<pparadis>we all started somewhere, nobody (that i'm aware of at least) was born knowing this stuff :)
23:33<zap151>Btw,off topic query: What is the avg age of a linode client ?
23:33<pparadis>18 - 9001
23:34<pparadis>seriously, linode customers come in all shapes and sizes :)
23:34<akerl>zap151: Not really a published statistic. But linode users run the whole spectrum of demographics
23:34<zap151>I am 18 and Was feeling totally lost :D
23:34<pparadis>plenty of young folks around here, trust me :)
23:34<zap151>Makes me feel better :)
23:35<zap151>G2g,Will ping if I need any help :)
23:36-!-looplog [~archloop@] has joined #linode
23:39-!-JSharp [] has joined #linode
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23:40<MTecknology>pparadis: torvalds
23:40<pparadis>MTecknology: quite possible
23:41<pparadis>or bd_
23:42-!-looplog [~archloop@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:42<MTecknology>more disk space that i don't need :P
23:42<MTecknology>yay spare
23:42-!-looplog [~archloop@] has joined #linode
23:47-!-HoopyCat [] has joined #linode
23:47<bd_>pparadis: what D:
23:47<bd_>pparadis: I thought linode didn't reveal the identity of their customers D:
23:47-!-Parallax [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
23:48<pparadis>bd_: GASP
23:48<Nivex>but, it can't go OVER 9000!
23:48<+linbot>HoopyCat: Now 50% full (about 20 hours remaining). Last emptied yesterday at 14:55 UTC, last full yesterday at 09:45 UTC after running for 33.8 hours.
23:49<+linbot>HoopyCat: Point (0.53781005, 0.40658737) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 98971 of 125688 (π ≈ 3.149735853860353 - 0.008143200270560). http://π
23:49<+linbot> ...
23:49<HoopyCat>we're back, bro
23:49<+linbot>pparadis: I'm not taking it. I had to pay for it.
23:57-!-JoeK [~JoeK@] has quit [Quit: O_O.]
23:57<HoopyCat>oh shit
23:58*HoopyCat descends into the pile of hell that is CPAN
23:58<pharaun>HoopyCat: enjoy :p
23:58<HoopyCat>actually, lucid is recent enough that i can just apt-get install libnet-twitter-perl, i bet :-)
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has left #linode [Rotating Logs]
23:59-!-VS_ChanLog [] has joined #linode
23:59<pharaun>hopefully :D
23:59<pharaun>i had hell of a time with twirssi reqs
---Logclosed Sun Jul 03 00:00:12 2011