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#linode IRC Logs for 2012-01-18

---Logopened Wed Jan 18 00:00:15 2012
00:00<squircle>there's a whole page by the Canadian government saying why the PATRIOT act is bad
00:00<squircle>go figure
00:00<auraka>obviously they are unpatriotic
00:00<puhola>ah, cool, wikipedia is down now
00:01<EugeneKay>The thing that amazes me is the level of cluelessness people have about the legislative process. It's been "rich tell the poor what to do" for thousands of years.
00:01<EugeneKay>Corporate control of the government is NOT new.
00:01<squircle>puhola: not for me!
00:01<squircle>EugeneKay: I'm ignorant of the US legislative process because I'm Canadian! (I was wondering if it was similar down there)
00:01<EugeneKay>I mean, the whole "Occupy" bullcrap.
00:01<puhola>squircle? huh? how? why not?
00:02<squircle>puhola: dunno! I tried clearing my cache, and it's still up. maybe 'cause I'm logged in...?
00:02<puhola>hmmmm, shit. I should have logged in. I just started my hw like 5 min ago
00:02<synapt>Hm interesting
00:02<synapt>They're just 'overlaying' a layer
00:03<synapt>All the wiki content is there behind the blackout page
00:03-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: SIGTERM RECEIVED DISCONNECTING]
00:03<squircle>maybe my ad-blocker is helping me?
00:03<synapt>I don't know that an ad-blocker would necessarily effect it
00:03<synapt>are you US?
00:03<synapt>As far as I'm aware it's only the en.* wiki
00:03<squircle>nope, and it is my ad-blocker
00:03<pharaun>wikipedia is down
00:03<squircle>tried in safari and I see it
00:03<puhola>ahh, google changed their logo
00:03<EugeneKay>Hell, a Stylish rule will do it.
00:04<cehartung>I'm seeing a statement with a 'contact your representative lookup
00:05<puhola>but the page does render for me
00:05<pharaun>reddit is still up
00:05<cehartung>enter your zip code (postal code)
00:05<pharaun>hacker news is still up
00:05<puhola>it's only after a quick second that it shows me the black protest message
00:05<squircle>http://boingboing.net/ is down
00:05<pharaun>facebook is up too, figures
00:05<pharaun>its in their interest
00:05<puhola>reddit is going down in 2 hours or something. they're going by pacific time
00:05<pharaun>oh pacific? explains
00:05<puhola>oh no, 7 hours.
00:06<pharaun>er why?
00:06<pharaun>that makes no sense
00:06<bss>google's page is up
00:06<puhola>god knows. I wish they hadn't. silly reason -- out of sync with google, wikipedia, et al.'s actions
00:06<squircle>three hours
00:06<EugeneKay>Stylish CSS rule I just wrote to DeSOPAte Wikipedia: http://pastebin.com/tvZ4fYQ2
00:06<Heron>google isn't going dark though
00:06<squircle>silly left coast
00:06-!-userx_ [~0x@188-221-232-150.zone12.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:06<Heron>they're just going to put up some info
00:06<bss>yeah, that's what i meant --- that's up
00:07<Heron>ah
00:07<Heron>sorry :)
00:07<bss>:)
00:07<puhola>I see that stylish is a firefox extension -- what avenue would I take to view wikipedia pages on chrome?
00:07-!-zeade [~Adium@c-67-169-180-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
00:07<pharaun>yes google page is up but their logo is gone
00:08-!-undrt [~undrt@141-235.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:08<squircle>puhola: the default blocklist for adblock will block the layer for you
00:08<EugeneKay>I'm sure there's a plugin for Chrome
00:08<squircle>uhh... there's stylish for chrome...
00:08<bss>the logo approach is interesting. it's striking enough without being detrimental
00:08<squircle>https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fjnbnpbmkenffdnngjfgmeleoegfcffe
00:09<EugeneKay>And fiddling the logo is something they have a long history of doing.
00:09<mikegrb>lulz
00:09<Heron>lol. I clicked on the PDF that's linked here: https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/
00:09<Heron>and it took me to a Google Docs page...
00:09<Heron>... and said I don't have permission.
00:09<EugeneKay>Nice.
00:09<Heron>oh, maybe they just hammered themselves too hard
00:09<Heron>it says "we are unable to retrieve the document, or you don't have permission"
00:10<cehartung>maybe you need to be logged in?
00:10<EugeneKay>Download Original link worked for me
00:10<mikegrb>lulz
00:10<pharaun>lol yeah
00:10<Heron>maybe it's because i'm logged in and using chrome?
00:10<Heron>not sure why it made the pdf link go to google docs
00:10<Heron>the direct link works fine
00:11<puhola>for what URL would I add the stylish thing? how about: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/* -- because that apparently does not work
00:11<cehartung>interesting ... right pane "Error: ..."
00:12<EugeneKay>Dunno in chrome, but that style has it self-included for FF syntax
00:12-!-userme [~userme@c-76-117-129-126.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:12-!-arooni-mobile [~arooni-mo@190.197.20.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:13<cehartung>did we lose caker?
00:13-!-triplei [~dank@205.250.46.50] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
00:13<puhola>wow that's interesting, even when I specify it to have it apply on "everything", it still goes to the black screen
00:13<pharaun>why are you working around this :p
00:14<pharaun>go call your senate/congress person or call your friendly americans and provocate them into action :p
00:14<squircle>http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:BannerLoader&banner=blackout
00:14<squircle>that's the element you have to block methinks
00:15<EugeneKay>That is one ugly bit of JS
00:16<squircle>for one ugly piece of legislation
00:16<puhola>it's intently obfuscated
00:17<puhola>speaking of which, why is html/js code obfuscated? I remember reading that as one of the checklist things developers do as a precautionary measure. I was confused why
00:17*zivester ha, just noticed google homepage... awesome
00:18<EugeneKay>Cuz haxors
00:18<squircle>google homepage looks totally normal to me... should it not be?
00:19<zivester>https://www.google.com/logos/2012/sopa12_hp.png
00:19<zivester>thats what i see
00:19<squircle>aah
00:19<squircle>maybe it's only for US IPs
00:19<Heron>yep
00:20-!-dassouki [~ahmed@142.167.82.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:20<puhola>squircle: wikipedia is up for you?
00:20<puhola>I think because you have javascript disabled? it seems accessible with js disabled
00:20<Defenestrator>Yeah, I think it's just for the US
00:20<Heron>(for google, anyway)
00:20<MTecknology>u!speedtest
00:20<MTecknology>!speedtest
00:20<squircle>puhola: i added a rule for my adblocker to remove the overlay
00:20<MTecknology>what was the link for that again?
00:20<Defenestrator>Yeah, they're loading the overlay with JS pretty late in the rendering, seems like. If you're quick with the esc key you can stop it too
00:20<puhola>squircle: give me the rule please?
00:21<squircle>it's up there ^^
00:21<squircle>block this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:BannerLoader&banner=blackout
00:21<puhola>defenstator: hm, Esc? in what browser? how does that work out? is that like a Chrome shortcut to stop rendering the page or what?
00:21<EugeneKay>Or just block Special:BannerLoader totally
00:21<auraka>https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/community/ <--- does anyone find it ironic that google lists Torrentfreak?
00:22<EugeneKay>Should nuke the dreadfal beg banners, too ;-)
00:22<squircle>puhola: it's a shortcut to "stop"
00:22<Defenestrator>puhola: most browsers, I think. Stop load as well as js execution basically
00:22<bss>hmm. namecheap is slow as molasses for me right now
00:22<puhola>Interesting! escíng it does work. That's very clever, how did you come to think of that solution?
00:22<pharaun>this was upon request
00:22<puhola>hm ok
00:22<pharaun>for emergency
00:22<squircle>because the js is the last thing it loads
00:23<squircle>watching Special:RecentChanges is entertaining
00:23<EugeneKay>Who started the "Jan 18th" thing, anyway? Reddit?
00:23<squircle>as people figure out how to get around the blackout
00:23<pharaun>dunno
00:23<dzho>routine use of NoScript ftw
00:23<EugeneKay>I think they were the first to majorly announce it
00:23-!-Webhostbudd [~William@isr6389.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:24<zivester>reddit did.. .i think it was when they were originally suppose to vote/talk about SOPA
00:24<cehartung>hey all, anyone here actually /from/ linode?
00:24<zivester>(in congress)
00:24<praetorian>!ops
00:24<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information: http://www.linode.com/about/
00:24<pharaun>cehartung: anyone with snail in their name
00:25<cehartung>yeah, thanks
00:25-!-tierra [~tierra@ibaku.net] has left #linode []
00:25-!-CapnKernel [~mjd@141.132.24.94] has left #linode []
00:25<cehartung>not happy with this Empathy client
00:25<puhola>snail, heh. that's cute.
00:25<EugeneKay>Escargot
00:26-!-squircle [~squircle@2001:470:1d:647:cabc:c8ff:fee7:8bb7] has quit [Quit: Goodbye!]
00:26<JshWright>cehartung: bear in mind, it's after midnight at Linode HQ, and this is a community channel. If you absolutely need to talk to someone from Linode, a ticket or e-mail would be the way to do it
00:26<pharaun>^ would be wise if its emergency
00:26<cehartung>no emergency
00:26<pharaun>but if its some general support stuff we can probably help
00:27<cehartung>just curious who's hanging out here this late ...
00:27<cehartung>I'm on US Eastern time, too
00:27<JshWright>Linode has support staff on 24/7, so tickets are always answered, but staff participation drops off after hours
00:27<cehartung>caker took off about the same time as I figured out who he was
00:28<JshWright>not to say many of them don't hang out here when they're off duty, but it's certainly slower
00:28<cehartung>I'd have figured that much
00:28<cehartung>so you people are customers, then
00:28<cehartung>or friends of customers?
00:28<JshWright>the vast majoirty are customers
00:29<praetorian>or rackspace employees
00:29<praetorian>*g*
00:29<mikegrb>lulz
00:29<cehartung>lol
00:29<auraka>ZING!
00:29<cehartung>chaching!
00:29<JshWright>some potential cutomers, some previous cutomers, and a handful of non-custoemrs
00:29<cehartung>that's almost as funny as 'winode'
00:29<auraka>a.k.a freeloaders
00:30<cehartung>ah, thanks for filling in the blanks for me
00:30-!-puhola [~185c47f0@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:31<cehartung>nice to see a real community here
00:31<cehartung>I've been evaluating vps hosting services
00:32<JshWright>you won't find a better community
00:32<cehartung>a very large number of them out there no longer monitor their IRC
00:32<cehartung>or they respond two or three days later to even a 'pre-sale' inquiry
00:32<cehartung>never ever do you get a phone call back
00:32<praetorian>linode once gave me crap response on a ticket
00:32<praetorian>i had to wait *5 minutes*
00:33<mikegrb>lulz
00:33<cehartung>lol
00:33<praetorian>seriously.
00:33<cehartung>I like linode
00:33<cehartung>I had a very good but very brief experience
00:33<cehartung>contemplating giving 'em another try
00:33-!-Knight [~BOSS@snubby.user.oftc.net] has joined #linode
00:34<@Praefectus>what's to contemplate?
00:34<cehartung>it all went sour when my e-mail got ignored
00:34<cehartung>it was technically an excellent experience but I thought the CS sucked
00:35<MTecknology>I've never before heard of linode costomer service not being good
00:35<auraka>well....no one at Linode ever wakes up in the morning and says "how am I going to provide crappy support today".....
00:35<cehartung>of course not
00:35<JshWright>if you have an account, a ticket is a _much_ better way to go
00:36<MTecknology>I worked at a company where they tried to teach you how to lie to customers to get more money from services
00:36<praetorian>(or you could just.. call them :))
00:36<auraka>cehartung: were you a gentoo/arch user? It could have been justifiable
00:36<mikegrb>lulz
00:36<cehartung>lol
00:36*praetorian adds auraka to the throw poop list
00:36<MTecknology>I actually need to open a support ticket sometime...
00:36-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
00:36<JshWright>please don't sar Arch... please don't say Arch... please don't say Arch...
00:37<cehartung>I'm pretty sure I submitted my correspondence by ticket
00:37<MTecknology>JshWright: you stuttered
00:37<bob2>just pay a small premium to get put on a no-moron host
00:37<bob2>no arch users or gentoo users or irc servers
00:37<@Praefectus>cehartung: what was the email about that was ignored?
00:37-!-advion [~advion--@cpe-74-71-55-117.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
00:37<JshWright>MTecknology: it happens... long class, couple hours at the bar...
00:37<SleePy>I should open a ticket. Just because it would be my first ticket :D
00:37<praetorian>bob2: id like to be on a host without those ubuntu users.
00:37<bob2>praetorian, ditto
00:37<cehartung>I explained I'm a small web developer
00:38<auraka>praetorian: you and the other two arch/gentoo users wouldn't be able to pay for the server then :-/
00:38<MTecknology>JshWright: i was thinking more like a scared, don't say it, i can't stand it, about to roge kinda stutter
00:38<auraka>they'd go bankrupt
00:38<MTecknology>SleePy: one to say hi?
00:39<pharaun>MTecknology: i did
00:39<SleePy>Either that or ask them a really impossible question
00:39<MTecknology>cehartung: I've been able to run 10 sites both moderately used without any issues at all on the smallest linode at the time, don't remember what that was then..
00:39<auraka>I've never had a subpar response from linode even though I may have deserved one....
00:39<praetorian>auraka: boo
00:39<cehartung>anyway, it was obvious my e-mail / ticket wasn't understood
00:39<praetorian>i can name more than two usres on arch now :P
00:39<auraka>and count them on one hand
00:40<cehartung>I have clients with SSL requirements = dedicated IPs
00:40<praetorian>the ones i know personally. im sure there is more ;)
00:40<MTecknology>praetorian: maybe up to five more!
00:40<praetorian>hush :P
00:40<praetorian>arch is surprisingly grown in popularity.
00:40<MTecknology>cehartung: you don't really need a dedicated ip per https site
00:41<MTecknology>unless you're supporting ie6?
00:41<MTecknology>not sure when that stopped being the case
00:41<cehartung>I know my requirements
00:41*Heron uses arch
00:41*pharaun gives a disapproving glare at arch users
00:41<praetorian>http://distrowatch.com/ - #6 !
00:41<praetorian>b[3~eeating centos!
00:41<mikegrb>lulz
00:41<bob2>lol distrowatch
00:41<Heron>pharaun: at least I don't use gentoo anymore! ;)
00:41<praetorian>bob2: :P
00:41<bob2>ha ha ha ha ha ha
00:41<JshWright>Linode is a very responsible service provider, especially when it comes to IPv4 allocation
00:41<pharaun>Heron: hah
00:41-!-atula [~neobreed@c-24-63-134-10.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:42<auraka>praetorian: I have come to the conclusion that gentoo/arch people are Sadomasichists
00:42<JshWright>Heron: how do you like that pacakge verification?
00:42-!-orudie_ [~Paul@ool-4575bb41.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #linode
00:42<pharaun>Heron: i rebuild my gentoo desktop in hours :3
00:42<pharaun>all servers are debian ofc
00:42<JshWright>I've got nothing against gentoo... Arch is a scary distro for a server
00:42<praetorian>auraka: why?
00:42<SleePy>Debian 6.0.3 $26.95 <-- wtf?
00:42<auraka>praetorian: both like lots of pain for little reward
00:42<pharaun>yeah at least gentoo got some sort of gpg/checksum/etc, arch don't :(
00:43<praetorian>JshWright: psst
00:43<cehartung>JshWright: I understand the situation
00:43<praetorian>JshWright: arch has signed packages
00:43<praetorian>kthx
00:43<pharaun>gpg?
00:43<praetorian>gpg
00:43<bss>just recently
00:43<auraka>rnowak: tell them you have scientifically verified this
00:43<praetorian>http://www.archlinux.org/news/pacman-4-moves-to-core/
00:44<cehartung>JshWright: I don't think my requirement is unusual
00:44<@Praefectus>However, until the last few details regarding database signing and keyring distribution are ironed out, this is disabled in pacman's default config.
00:44<Heron>I use gentoo on my server here at home, arch on my linodes, ubuntu on my desktop
00:44<MTecknology>it is actually
00:44<Heron>or wait, i guess i'm using arch on my desktop VM righ tnow
00:44<cehartung>JshWright: or unreasonable
00:44<MTecknology>it is actually
00:44<Heron>ubuntu kept not working
00:44<pharaun>Heron: that's backward
00:44-!-stafamus [~stafamus@host-92-24-40-5.ppp.as43234.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:44*MTecknology runs off
00:45<pharaun>Heron: i can see gentoo on desktop where it would be benefitful, but gentoo on servers :\
00:45<Heron>pharaun: it's more an artifact of when I switched distros in general
00:45<Heron>I used to run gentoo on my desktop and laptop
00:45<JshWright>cehartung: I obviously don't know anything about your specific requirements, and I'm certainly not trying to pick a fight, I'm just saying that I, as a Linode customer, appreciate the fact that they act responsibly, even if it's the easiest, or most profitable, thing to do
00:45<pharaun>Heron: hehe alright :)
00:45<Heron>it's how I learned that OpenOffice.org compile times can be improved drastically by putting /var/portage/tmp on a 9GB ramdisk
00:46<praetorian>arch on servers isnt scary.
00:46<pharaun>Heron: i'm just a big fan of debian for servers, gentoo for my desktop
00:46<pharaun>Heron: haha yeah
00:46<pharaun>oo.org is just sad
00:46<praetorian>i always cheated. openoffice-bin
00:46-!-peter [~jsmith@peter.mcinerney.id.au] has joined #linode
00:46<bss>my two vanity linodes are gentoo. but i've also used it for approaching a decade now, it long ago reached a point that i could administer it in my sleep
00:46<Heron>these days I don't have the patience to wait for things to compile
00:46<bss>no point in switching
00:46<pharaun>chromium is down to 4-5 minute build on my desktop :)
00:46<auraka>using arch is like hunting boar with a needle...sure you may eventually get the job done but there is going to be lots of pain and you have to deal with all the pricks
00:46<Heron>I keep trying to use ubuntu but I consistently have show-stopping problems with it
00:46<Heron>so, I end up using arch
00:46<JshWright>cehartung: SNI wouldn't work for you?
00:46<praetorian>cant say ive seen arch been painful, fwiw
00:46<pharaun>i hate ubuntu
00:46-!-peter is now known as Guest24382
00:47<pharaun>i've tried ubuntu a few time
00:47<pharaun>i ended up just being all pissed at it and tossing it out
00:47<pharaun>fedora isn't bad so far, but i prefer debian or gentoo
00:47<JshWright>(I'm just curious, still not trying to pick a fight)
00:47<Heron>don't get me wrong, I don't dislike gentoo
00:47<Heron>i'm just not as patient as I used to be
00:47<bss>isn't SNI adoption still spotty?
00:47<auraka>Heron: wisdom with age
00:48<pharaun>android browsers/mobile browsers i think
00:48<Heron>er, yes, let's call it wisdom
00:48-!-michael_mbp [~michael_m@31.203.43.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:48<pharaun>i think the main issues is mobile and ie6
00:48<cehartung>JshWright: I don't believe it is unreasonable to ask for 5 IPs for myself and six clients
00:48<Heron>sounds better than "more impatient"
00:48<pharaun>Heron: fair enough :)
00:48<Heron>speaking of which
00:48<Katana>cehartung: look at it from their perspective, the more IPs they sell you, the less nodes they can sell
00:48<Heron>I should probably update my server
00:48<pharaun>Heron: but then again i do world rebuilds in hours :) so its not like its that slow :p
00:48<MTecknology>cehartung: I think it is
00:48<Heron>my home server hasn't been updated in ages
00:48<pharaun>haha yeah
00:49<@heckman>cehartung: why do you need that many IPs?
00:49<pharaun>i recently moved my home server off gentoo -> debian 6
00:49<Katana>cehartung: each node requires at least one IPv4 address, and assigning more to already existing nodes means less revenue
00:49<Heron>i'm not even sure how to tell how long it has been
00:49<JshWright>cehartung: to what end? assuming you don't need IE6 support, there's no technical reason for different IPs
00:49<MTecknology>Heron: he thinks he needs one per https site
00:49<MTecknology>heckman: *
00:49<praetorian>i used gentoo on my desktop. reason i really moved away from it, was i could get lazy and forget to update. so it would be always a pain updating.
00:49<pharaun>its so much nicer to be able to do apt-get upgrade and be fairly sure it'll work :)
00:49<praetorian>and arch solved that.
00:49<pharaun>praetorian: yeah it can be
00:49<Heron>pharaun: that's exactly why I haven't updated my home server
00:49<Heron>i'm afraid I'll break something :(
00:49<@heckman>Isn't it IE6 on XP and IE7 on XP as well (or am I thinking of something else?)
00:49-!-mcinerney [~jsmith@peter.mcinerney.id.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:49*bss just finished a rebuild-world-then-restart-all-services cycle on his servers. kind of fun in a way
00:49<cehartung>JshWright: four different small companies, each with SSL, me as web designer / host
00:49<pharaun>but i been using this for so long that i do all of this in my sleep :)
00:49-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:50<pharaun>cehartung: what's your exact requirement
00:50<Katana>heckman: IE6 isn't available on win6.x iirc
00:50<@heckman>Katana: correct
00:50<pharaun>cehartung: do you need to support ie6, or some mobile? if no, then you should be fine with SNI
00:50<@heckman>Don't some modern mobile browsers support it? (iOS/Android)
00:50<bss>shame on them if they don't :|
00:50<cehartung>these are existing websites with existing SSL certs that need to be rekeyed when the sites are moved
00:50<praetorian>i could check if they did heckman
00:50<praetorian>but wikipedia is down.
00:51<JshWright>cehartung: that still doesn't imply a need for discrete IPv4 addresses. I run half a dozen sites off my node, 4 of them for clients, all with SSL, and only one IPv4 address
00:51<MTecknology>IE6.... why will people not let it just die!!!
00:51<praetorian>i cbf adding in the javascript hack
00:51-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
00:51<cehartung>how does that work with PayPal and Authorize.net etc?
00:51<pharaun>JshWright: http://pastebin.com/eXyeBmwg
00:52-!-rmk [~48817101@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
00:52<pharaun>those are the browser that don't support sni, if he's not required to use support one of these
00:52<pharaun>then there is no technical reason why not to use SNI
00:52<MTecknology>cehartung: you pay by credit card, that's it
00:52<Katana>cehartung: as a word of caution, there's an increasing amount of paypal abuse against sellers lately. may want to caution your clients about that
00:52<Katana>MTecknology: you misread
00:52<pharaun>cehartung: http://pastebin.com/eXyeBmwg
00:52<MTecknology>did i?
00:52<MTecknology>did that change?
00:52<Heron>that's why I try to withdraw my meager paypal earnings frequently
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00:52<Katana>MTecknology: your answer is irrelevant - he's talking about him doing the selling
00:52<JshWright>cehartung: I assume you mean for webhook responses?
00:52<pharaun>cehartung: do you support any of this? if no, then no, you do *not* need per ip ssl
00:52<MTecknology>oooooh
00:52<MTecknology>sorry
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00:53<JshWright>cehartung: that's an excellent question... I don't know... Google Checkout plays with it just fine, but that's the only payment provider I use
00:53<rmk>Hi guys, have a question. Is it possible to create a vpn endpoint on a linode box, which serves as a gateway to other linodes for that tunnel?
00:53<JshWright>rmk: sure
00:53<pharaun>heckman: only ics or honeycomb for android supports
00:53<pharaun>heckman: if any older one, HA HA
00:53<@heckman>I saw.
00:53<bob2>you can route things however you like
00:54<@heckman>So that's most of the Android eco-system
00:54<rmk>bob2: That was really the question yeah.
00:54<pharaun>heckman: http://pastebin.com/eXyeBmwg
00:54<pharaun>yeah pretty much :(
00:54<JshWright>rmk: you'll want to use either the private network, or IPv6 for inter-node communciation
00:54<rmk>OK great.
00:54<@heckman>Is there a reason why you keep pasting it?
00:54<rmk>Because that's not possible with other cloud providers.
00:54<pharaun>heckman: im bored? ;)
00:54<Katana>fwiw - unreal 2 is fun. Good buy from GoG
00:54*Katana yawns
00:55<bob2>rmk, well, some of them
00:55<bob2>also, best to keep meaningless words like 'cloud' out of technical discussions
00:55<pharaun>!cloud
00:55<linbot>I'm leaving Linode for the cloud!
00:55<rmk>Heh sorry yeah.
00:55<rmk>I hate the overuse of the term also.
00:55<rmk>Let's call them IaaS providers.
00:55<@heckman>We were going to go to the cloud.
00:55<@heckman>But it corroded the hard drives. :/
00:55<praetorian>!cloud
00:55<linbot>I'm leaving Linode for the cloud!
00:55<Katana>but now it's all in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE?
00:56<Katana>oh
00:56<Katana>dangit
00:56<auraka>heckman: sorry buddy you''re going to hell in a handbasket....no clouds for you
00:56<Katana>Joke murdered. RIP joke.
00:57*Katana notices google's logo
00:57<pharaun>Katana: old news ;)
00:58<pharaun>still glad to see that they're doing it
00:58<praetorian>the cartoon?
00:58<pharaun>praetorian: no google.com logo
00:58<pharaun>its blacked out
00:58<praetorian>oh who goes to google.com
00:58<cehartung>very very interesting this SNI
00:58<pharaun>all search pages are blacked out too
00:58<praetorian>doesnt appear for me as black
00:58<pharaun>american only
00:58<praetorian>even google.com
00:58<pharaun>praetorian: probably just lucky, its probably still rolling out
00:59<praetorian>nod
00:59<pharaun>with god who knows how many servers it probably take a while to ripple out
00:59<praetorian>they need a cloud
00:59-!-karstensrage [~karstensr@c-67-174-201-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:59<pharaun>at work we only have several tens of dozen servers and it still takes a while for our code push to go out
00:59<Defenestrator>Hah. They *are* a cloud :P
00:59<cehartung>thanks for the link JshMWright
00:59<praetorian>at work with have iis.. oh it is lucky to make it out
00:59<Defenestrator>Usually, this sort of thing gets rolled out ahead of time then cut over so there's less inconsistency though.
01:00<pharaun>praetorian: ha
01:00<pharaun>Defenestrator: but for a logo change its not like its critical
01:00<pharaun>to be all synchronized ya know
01:00<Defenestrator>Yeah, but that's probably the mechanism for rolling out changes that they've built
01:00<Defenestrator>so they're likely to use it anyways
01:00-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:01<@heckman>meh, oh well
01:01-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
01:01<Knight>sup padre @ heckman
01:01*Katana wanders off to bed
01:01<@heckman>Nothing too much, hacking on some code. Yourself?
01:01<Katana>g'night
01:01<pharaun>heckman: you mean hecking some code?
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01:02<cehartung>JshWright: you have a SSL / SNI enabled URL I can check out?
01:03-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
01:03<@heckman>pharaun: I suppose that's applicable as well
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01:08<praetorian>i did some html5 canvas stuff the other day.
01:08<praetorian>so easy.
01:08<pharaun>hows browser support?
01:10<praetorian>pharaun: worked in everything but ie 8
01:10<praetorian>ie 9 is fine
01:11<pharaun>praetorian: nice
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01:20<orudie_>is there a linode distro chart ?
01:21<retro|blah>orudie_: https://www.linode.com/faq.cfm#which-distributions-do-you-offer
01:23<orudie_>retro|blah, thanks, but its not what I'm looking for. There was a graph illustrating the number of distros
01:23-!-cehartung [~cehartung@pool-72-65-109-88.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has left #linode []
01:23<orudie_>retro|blah, I believe .....
01:23<retro|blah>You mean % breakdown of Linodes by distro?
01:23<orudie_>yeah
01:23<orudie_>something like that
01:23*CaptObviousman wanders in
01:23<retro|blah>https://www.linode.com/about/ on the right
01:23*CaptObviousman shits on the coats
01:23*CaptObviousman leaves
01:24*retro|blah claps
01:24<retro|blah>Dinnertime
01:24<orudie_>heh
01:24<orudie_>yeah, but there was a graphic chart, a bar graph I believe. :)
01:25<CaptObviousman>Kyh: you know you're unredacted right?
01:26<orudie_>retro|blah, anyway thanks
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01:34<CaptObviousman>so, my other channels are quiet, what's happening in here?
01:35<avenj>shhh. we're all sitting here quietly for the SOPA blackout.
01:35<CaptObviousman>well that's lame. Why do you think I'm in here looking for something to do?
01:37-!-advion [~advion--@cpe-74-71-55-117.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
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01:38<SleePy>Go read a book or learn something new
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01:52<Hoggs>linode blackout? :O
01:55<CaptObviousman>dear god no
01:55<Knight>linode colorlessout?
01:56<CaptObviousman>how about linode alwayson
01:56*CaptObviousman wins?
01:56<Knight>== colorlessout
01:56<Hoggs>Good question though - Does linode support or oppose sopa?
01:56<Hoggs>or just neutral
01:56<EugeneKay>Spoiler: oppose
01:57*CaptObviousman is late
01:57<Hoggs>EugeneKay: Officially, or just saying that
01:57-!-userme [~userme@c-76-117-129-126.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linode
01:57<EugeneKay>No official statement, but I'd put money that most of the linode office staff will say "oppose" if asked.
01:58<Hoggs>yeah no doubt
01:58<EugeneKay>Just like everybody else on the internet who knows how to read and compose intelligent thoughts.
01:58<CaptObviousman>I've yet to meet any supporters amongst my communities on the web
01:58<CaptObviousman>well, if they ARE supporters, they're staying veeeeery quiet
01:58<CaptObviousman>and possibly astroturfers
01:59<pharaun>or are being paid very good
01:59<CaptObviousman>probably both
02:02<Kyh>CaptObviousman: ohh yay
02:05<linbot>New news from forums: IO "Problem"? in General Discussion <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8321>
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02:22<linbot>New news from forums: ShutDown 100% processes - Automaticly in Performance and Tuning <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8319>
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02:47<pharaun>reset
02:47<pharaun>clear
02:47<pharaun>exit
02:47<pharaun>whoops
02:47<pharaun>my terminal died on me
02:47<bd_>pharaun: stty sane; reset :)
02:47<pharaun>good tip, yeah i just ended up deattaching and making a new terminal
02:48<pharaun>bd_: i always thought reset would do the trick
02:49-!-TimTim [~TimTim@cpe-098-026-149-108.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:49<bd_>pharaun: reset sends an ANSI reset code and resets some subset of the tty mode flags, stty hits the rest of the mode flags, I think
02:50<pharaun>ah i see
02:50<chesty>kill -9 1
02:52<bd_>chesty: init ignores all user-generated signals for which it has no installed handler. This includes normally fatal signals such as SIGKILL
02:52<bd_>and SIGSTOP
02:52-!-basro__ [~basro@190.18.51.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:56<pharaun>er what's HAL's "replacement"
02:57<pharaun>ah udev/udisk/upowerd
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03:27-!-bas is now known as Guest24391
03:27<Guest24391>Hi All
03:27<Guest24391>I'm checking my Linodes with the htop command
03:28<Guest24391>511/511
03:28<Guest24391>the sqp is full used
03:28<Guest24391>swp
03:34-!-hipsterslapfight [~ryan@client-82-26-185-29.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit []
03:34<hawk>Guest24391: That doesn't sound good
03:35<Guest24391>yes
03:35<Guest24391>what to do?
03:35<hawk>Guest24391: What is using the memory? Misconfigured apache+mod_php? Something else?
03:35<Guest24391>i think so
03:36<hawk>Guest24391: http://library.linode.com/troubleshooting/memory-networking
03:38<Guest24391>thank you
03:40-!-Smilex [~IceChat7@88.85.33.209] has joined #linode
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03:41<@heckman>Brain is all coded out
03:41<@heckman>Zzz o/
03:41<Smilex>If I were to have a website, that transfered data between my webpage and my database, hosted on the same Linode server, would this data transfer count towards my transfer limit, provided by the Linode plan I decide to purchase?
03:42<@heckman>If it's hosted on the same Linode it never reaches your network interface.
03:42<@heckman>The kernel handles the traffic.
03:42<@heckman>(so no, you aren't billed if they are on the same Linode)
---Logclosed Wed Jan 18 03:47:45 2012
---Logopened Wed Jan 18 03:47:52 2012
03:47-!-mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #linode
03:47-!-Irssi: #linode: Total of 396 nicks [12 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 384 normal]
03:47-!-mode/#linode [+o mikegrb] by ChanServ
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03:48<Kos>oh god the internet
03:48<Kos>it's dying
03:48<Kos>SOPA HAS TAKEN EFFECT
03:48*retro|blah claps
03:48<Solver>Kos: :)
03:48-!-VS_ChanLog [~stats@ns.theshore.net] has joined #linode
03:48-!-VS_ChanLog [~stats@ns.theshore.net] has quit [autokilled: Spammer - Contact support@oftc.net for help. (2012-01-18 08:48:59)]
03:48-!-caker [~caker@caker.sponsor.oftc.net] has quit [autokilled: Spammer - Contact support@oftc.net for help. (2012-01-18 08:48:59)]
03:49-!-VS_ChanLog is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
03:49<@heckman>^
03:49<@heckman>that's not good
03:49<@heckman>Jan18 03:48:59 -!- caker [~caker@caker.sponsor.oftc.net] has quit [autokilled: Spammer - Contact support@oftc.net for help. (2012-01-18 08:48:59)]
03:49<Solver>Smilex: you can count the traffic that your users use, even if it is over localhost
03:49<avenj>someone's gonna get spanked
03:50-!-Irssi: Join to #linode was synced in 143 secs
03:51<@heckman>Well I am glad I stuck around to watch that happen, heh
03:51<Yaakov>Someone needs to contact support.
03:51<Smilex>Solver, but it has to have a cost to us. We provide a free product, that makes money on advertisement clicks, so my plan was to use these clicks as our products. With this we need each click to have a cost to us, the company, and an income, advertisers, to make the provided economic plans work at all. I don't know if there's some measurable cost on clicks, that any of you could think of?
03:52<@heckman>I'd e-mail them, but I'd feel like a dbag.
03:52<@heckman>Hopefully caker gets the message I sent him, meh
03:52<avenj>hell of a lot of users caught in that one, I'm sure they'll figure it out
03:52<praetorian>YAY CAKER IS GONE
03:52<praetorian>LETS PARTY!
03:53*praetorian serves punch
03:53<Kos>heckman: you've inherited the throne
03:53<Solver>it's a coup?
03:53<praetorian>akerl: is the new aker in town
03:53<@heckman>laker
03:53<Solver>heckman: when i said 'host' earlier I meant the VM but you meant the physical host right?
03:53<Solver>cya
03:54<Kos>heh
03:54<@heckman>Solver: right, need to watch the terminology there. :p
03:54-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:54<Solver>heckman: your response made more sense once I realised that :)
03:54<praetorian>you know what i have learnt from this akill stuff?
03:54<praetorian>too many people use chat.linode.com
03:54-!-CaptObvi1usman is now known as CaptObviousman
03:54-!-vraa [~vraa@99-20-202-44.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:54<CaptObviousman>bah netsplit
03:54<@heckman>praetorian: I think the connections don't always die
03:55<praetorian>ah.
03:55<praetorian>there use to be a cgi-irc bot as well
03:57<praetorian>sucks tho
03:57<praetorian>chesty is still here
03:58<CaptObviousman>hah, caker got whacked?
03:58*CaptObviousman giggles
03:58<praetorian>the new jersey mob
03:59<chesty>but with no caker, there's only heckman to troll :(
03:59<@mikegrb>mmm cake
03:59<Solver>mmm cake
03:59-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has joined #linode
03:59<Solver>mikegrb is ok! :)
03:59<CaptObviousman>nothing stops mikegrb
04:00<chesty>and no channel log, yay
04:00<praetorian>chesty: too easy.
04:00<CaptObviousman>your point?
04:00<@heckman>You keep talkin like that, your Linode will be goin for a swim in the Hudson
04:01<CaptObviousman>err?
04:01<praetorian>isnt the hudsun in new york?
04:01<CaptObviousman>^^
04:01<CaptObviousman>I interviewed in the building where my linode is hosted
04:01<CaptObviousman>haven't snagged the job yet, but I think they'll let me know tomorrow
04:01<BlandSauce>Mine can go swimming in San Francisco Bay
04:02<CaptObviousman>my interviewer was amused when I mentioned that tidbit
04:02<praetorian>"i just want to job to make sure my linode runs k?
04:02<@heckman>CaptObviousman: well next time we come visit you owe us coffee.
04:02<@heckman>What were you interviewing for?
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04:03<@heckman>Ugh 4:03am.
04:04*heckman commits, pushes to origin, and goes to sleep
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04:06<praetorian>heckman: good night love.
04:06-!-VS_ChanLog [~stats@ns.theshore.net] has joined #linode
04:06-!-agrajag [~agrajag@c-24-131-78-108.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #linode
04:06<praetorian>oh damn VS_ChanLog is back
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04:17<chesty>someone should join as caker and /msg heckman to come into work
04:27-!-fisted [~fisted@xdsl-87-78-212-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:27-!-spaam [johan@i19.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:29-!-crimbox2 [~dce970f3@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
04:30<crimbox2>is anyone elses linode really slow? im using an asia pacific one
04:30<crimbox2>if i ping it i get this "Request timeout for icmp_seq 1"
04:30<crimbox2>and i can barely ssh into it
04:31<retro|blah>!mtr
04:31<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ or http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/ for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
04:32-!-fisted [~fisted@xdsl-87-78-211-135.netcologne.de] has joined #linode
04:32*Hobbsee cluebats the fellow linoder attempting to hack into her box
04:32<kyhwana>mtr
04:36<praetorian>!pingdumb
04:36<linbot>http://pingdumb.com/
04:36<kyhwana>crimbox2: you mean tokyo?
04:36<kyhwana>whats your linode IP and what ISP/which country are you in?
04:36<crimbox2>yea tokyo
04:37<crimbox2>106.187.44.50 australia
04:38<praetorian>!xkcd sopa
04:38<linbot>praetorian: No matches found.
04:38<praetorian>lies.
04:39<praetorian>http://xkcd.com/1004
04:39<crimbox2>it seems like a persistant issue. sometimes is really fast sometimes its really slow
04:39<crimbox2>feels like shared hosting
04:39<kyhwana>from NZ I go through vocus to he in sjc, then back across the pacific to japan
04:39<kyhwana>~260MS
04:39<kyhwana>crimbox2: you mean latency?
04:39<kyhwana>Or actual response time from your linode?
04:39<kyhwana>pastie a mtr
04:40<crimbox2>mtr doesnt work
04:40<kyhwana>what
04:40-!-hipsters_ [~ryan@81.130.125.195] has joined #linode
04:40<crimbox2>command not found
04:41<kyhwana>...
04:41<retro|blah>You need to install it.
04:41<kyhwana>install mtr then
04:42<kyhwana>do "mtr -w --report" and stick it into pastie
04:44-!-hipsterslapfight [~ryan@host81-130-40-131.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:44-!-hipsters_ is now known as hipsterslapfight
04:45-!-spaam [johan@i19.se] has joined #linode
04:46<spaam>is there an issue using multiple ip:s + ipv6 and ubuntu 11.10?
04:46<spaam>i cant get my eth0:0 after i upgraded to ubuntu 11.10 and enabled ipv6.
04:47<kyhwana>eth0:0 would be your public v4 ip?
04:47<spaam>yes
04:47<kyhwana>what is your v4 public ip?
04:47<crimbox2>kyhwana: http://p.linode.com/6171
04:48<kyhwana>crimbox2: and what was your ping lag before it was slow?
04:49<kyhwana>the web server works fine for me?
04:49<kyhwana>works! danger.tinnyhq.com
04:49-!-johnathanb [~johnathan@213.123.112.111] has joined #linode
04:49<spaam>kyhwana: 178.79.144.90 .. .90 does not work.. can ping it ..
04:49<spaam>my first ip does use the same subnet..
04:50<Bartzy>Anyone knows a solution to talk with other people in the office through headphones and a microphone?
04:50<Bartzy>But directly, just press of a button and you talk.. not calling
04:50<crimbox2>kyhwana: this always happens... it gets really slow. i cant ssh in. then after about half hour of trying to get some diagnostics it works again....
04:50<kyhwana>crimbox2: whats your load average and what are you doing on it?
04:51<crimbox2>how can i tell my load average? im just running websites
04:51<kyhwana>spaam: wait, your linode v4 ip?
04:51<crimbox2>they get hardly any traffic
04:51<kyhwana>crimbox2: er, login via ssh and run "w" or "top"?
04:52<spaam>kyhwana: 178.79.144.87 and 178.79.144.90 .. is my linode ip v4 ip..
04:52-!-Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #linode
04:52<crimbox2>load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.05
04:52<kyhwana>spaam: oh, you have multiple v4 ips?
04:52<spaam>kyhwana: yes
04:53<spaam>kyhwana: i wrote that in my first msg.
04:54<kyhwana>right, sorry :P
04:54<spaam>eh screw this. going to remove the shit and install debian.
04:54<kyhwana>hmm, did you read http://library.linode.com/networking/configuring-static-ip-interfaces ?
04:54-!-niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-10-54-101.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #linode
04:54<kyhwana>crimbox2: right, is it slow now?
04:55<hawk>Fwiw, if you use iproute you don't need these silly interface alias things just to have multiple addresses...
04:56<kyhwana>I only have one v4 public ip, so someone more qualified could answer
04:56<crimbox2>kyhwana: no i seems to be working ok now
04:56<kyhwana>crimbox2: well, I guess you need to figure out what's using up all your CPU time and/or IO time when it's slow..
04:56<kyhwana>Check your linode manager graphs, etc.
04:57<Duke>leenodah eh
04:58<crimbox2>kyhwana: so it is a problem with the linode
04:59<crimbox2>?
05:00<retro|blah>crimbox2: You tell us.
05:00<kyhwana>crimbox2: maybe.. depends it could be lag or your linode being busy
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05:36<spaam>kyhwana: it worked before the update..
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06:03<nickdunn>Hello
06:04<nickdunn>I'm quite new to all of this. I'm about to upgrade from a 512 to 768
06:04<nickdunn>"After the migration completes, you can take advantage of the new resources by resizing your disk images"
06:04-!-mig5 [~mig5@ppp59-167-182-161.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #linode
06:04<nickdunn>Is this a non-destructive process? i.e. when I come to do this, will my existing data remain intact>
06:05<internat>yep
06:05<internat>as long as your not using funky disk configuration
06:05<internat>if your using standard ext3 as formatted by the linode manager, youll have no hassles
06:05<nickdunn>Nope, all standard
06:05-!-Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #linode
06:05<nickdunn>Yay, thanks :-)
06:06<nickdunn>Updating now...
06:06<nickdunn>Upgrading*
06:09<Cromulent>this is completely off topic for this channel but I may as well ask - does anyone know of any good books on writing a business plan?
06:09<Cromulent>preferably UK law based
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06:23-!-River_Rat is now known as RiverRat
06:26<linbot>New news from forums: Custom php.ini for different vhosts in Web Servers and Web App Development <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8317>
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06:50<Anomie>Is there anyway I can pay for my linode yearly instead of monthly?
06:51<mig5>sure, if your linode already exists, send a support ticket
06:51<kyhwana>yup
06:51<mig5>they'll sort it out
06:51<kyhwana>support ticket
06:51<kyhwana>you get 10% off
06:52<Anomie>kyhwana, mig5, thx - was looking in my account settings to change it but couldn't see it anywhere
06:56-!-andrew [~andrew@70.134.67.192] has quit [Quit: Ping Timeout]
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07:08<Jonis>quiet in here for 400 people
07:09<SpaceHobo><redacted>
07:09<SpaceHobo><redacted>
07:09<SpaceHobo><redacted>
07:09<SpaceHobo><redacted>
07:09<kyhwana>wtf
07:09<kyhwana> /kb SpaceHobo
07:09<SpaceHobo><redacted>
07:09<linbot>http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2010/06/03/us/jp-NUKE.html
07:09<Alan>not linode related, but maybe somebody in here will be knowledgable to help me out...
07:10<Alan>do OpenJDK or Sun JDK use openssl as their SSL/TLS implementation? or do they have their own implementation?
07:12<kyhwana>!rr
07:12<linbot>*BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
07:12*linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
07:12<Alan>i'm trying to track down this horrible problem where a webapp running on OpenJDK 1.6_18 can't talk to a client using openssl newer than 1.0.0e
07:12<kyhwana>hmmm
07:12<Alan>and i can't figure out if the server's openssl version is relevant or not
07:12<kyhwana>what changed after 1.0.0e?
07:12<kyhwana>Is it refusing SSLv2/v3?
07:12<Alan>TLS v1.1 and v1.2
07:13<Alan>some broken TLSv1.0 implementations barf when presented with a client that supports 1.1 or 1.2
07:13<Alan>they completely break rather than conforming to the standard and advertising their own TLS version back to the client
07:14<Alan>c.f. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246#appendix-E.1 and looking at the openssl changelog
07:14<kyhwana>awesome
07:20<Alan>yeah...
07:21<Bartzy>Can I have one central AuthorizedKeysFile for all users in the ssh server, and another file for each user, if necessary ?
07:23<kyhwana>uh
07:23<kyhwana>no
07:23<kyhwana>just use per use private key files?
07:23<EugeneKay>No, but you can specify an AuthorizedKeysCommand
07:23<EugeneKay>Feel free to abuse that in interesting and potentially dangerous ways
07:27<EugeneKay>Bonus points if AuthorizedKeysCommandRunAs is set to root
07:30<linbot>New news from forums: Setting Up VNC on Linode in General Discussion <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8322>
07:31<kyhwana>hrghrhg vnc
07:31<kyhwana>apt-get install ubuntu-desktop vncserver ?
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07:37<eagles0513875>im stoked big time guys :)
07:38-!-joar [~joar@95.209.181.117.bredband.tre.se] has joined #linode
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08:05-!-stan_theman [~stan_them@cumulonim.biz] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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08:11<eagles0513875>so how is everyone
08:11-!-arooni-mobile [~arooni-mo@190.197.20.98] has joined #linode
08:15-!-tusk [~tusk@20dage.dk] has joined #linode
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08:22-!-oeuftete [~oeuftete@142.68.128.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:25*eagles0513875 shocks everyone whose not alive with the defibrilator
08:26-!-stephenplatz [~steve@ool-18bc554f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #linode
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08:29*vodka looks outside at the pouring rain
08:29*vodka pushes eagles0513875 outside and locks the door
08:30<@mikegrb>lulz
08:30<eagles0513875>lol
08:30<eagles0513875>hey vodka
08:30<eagles0513875>nice to see your alcoholic backside is awake :p
08:30<vodka>awake? mmm
08:31<vodka>mostly
08:33<@mikegrb>lulz
08:33<eagles0513875>lol
08:36-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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08:38<linbot>New news from forums: GeoIP and mod_geoip2 in Web Servers and Web App Development <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8323>
08:38-!-stephenplatz [~steve@ool-18bc554f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:42-!-eagles0513875 [~kvirc@c178-234.i02-5.onvol.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/]
08:45-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has joined #linode
08:45<Bartzy>Hey
08:45-!-Ghost [~Ghost@210.23.81.164] has joined #linode
08:45<Bartzy>ssh-agent only reads ~/.ssh/id_rsa on startup ? Can I configure it to automatically read ~/.ssh/bar_rsa on start up ?
08:45<@Praefectus>!alot
08:45<linbot>http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html | http://e-cabi.net/alot.jpg
08:48-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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08:50<Alan>well they didn't stick around long...
08:50<Null_>must be down in protest of sopa
08:51<auraka>wow today is going to suck
08:51<rnowak>I didn't even notice the sopa blackout on wikipedia, wikipedia.org is blocked in noscript (:
08:51<SpaceHobo><redacted>
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09:00<auraka>does anyone work with Avaya and know how to make it not suck
09:04<EugeneKay>Shotguns help.
09:04<auraka>oh....that would make this day awesome
09:07<EugeneKay>I keep a 9mm on my desk for "technical emergencies"
09:09-!-corycollier [~corycolli@8.26.119.250] has joined #linode
09:15-!-Kingsy [~6d915c7f@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
09:16<Kingsy>guys I am still getting The connection was reset messages from my server when i am using my website.. why could that be?
09:17<Kingsy>its just happened and error.log doesnt contain any messages from today.. and the access.log is empty
09:17<Kingsy>what else can I check to try and trace this? its annoying the crap outta me
09:17-!-John [~John@firewall.sghms.ac.uk] has joined #linode
09:18<@irgeek>Do you have any iptables rules configured?
09:19<tusk>Kingsy: what happens if you telnet on port 80 to your server
09:19<Kingsy>irgeek : not that I setup so I am assuming not no..
09:20<Kingsy>tusk - I can imagine it works.. the error doesnt occur all of the time.. it seems to happen "once in a while"
09:20<@irgeek>Kingsy: If you're not sure, try running iptables-save - that should dump everything.
09:21<Kingsy>irgeek: well that has given me a output but it means nothing to me
09:21<@irgeek>!pb
09:21<linbot>http://p.linode.com <-- paste here, not in the channel
09:22<SpaceHobo><redacted>
09:22<linbot>http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2010/06/03/us/jp-NUKE.html
09:22<SpaceHobo><redacted>
09:22<linbot>http://www.summerglauonastick.co.uk
09:24<EugeneKay>What, exactly, is attractive about her?
09:24<EugeneKay>I watched Firefly recently. It was worth my time, but I'm not gonna rewatch any of it. Except the Christina HEndricks episodes.
09:25<tusk>Kingsy: Maybe your MaxConnection in httpd.conf is too low ?
09:25-!-stafamus [~stafamus@host-92-24-40-5.ppp.as43234.net] has joined #linode
09:25<Kingsy>irgeek: http://pastie.org/3207559
09:25<Kingsy>tusk: hmm perhaps.. see I am the only person using the site at the moment..
09:25<Kingsy>(no-one knows about it yet)
09:25<Kingsy>but it does seem to crash on tasks that require quite a bit of work
09:26<@irgeek>Kingsy: That's just the standard tables and chains. That's not causing the resets.
09:27<Kingsy>yeah, I havent messed with it
09:27<Kingsy>hehe don't even know what it does
09:27-!-joshdotsmith [~joshsmith@173-163-32-233-cpennsylvania.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #linode
09:27<@irgeek>Have you checked your console to see if there are messages there?
09:28-!-John [~John@firewall.sghms.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: User divided by zero]
09:28<Kingsy>irgeek: you mean the linode manager online?
09:28<Kingsy>I don't really know what I am looking for...
09:29<tusk>or look in /var/log/messages
09:29<Kingsy>tusk: oh you mean actually on the server 1 sec I am ssh'ed right now
09:29<@irgeek>You're looking for the Remote Access tab. There's info about accessing your console there.
09:30<tusk>Kingsy: what do you mean 'require quite a bit of work' ? Are you running php or something similiar on your webserver ?
09:31<Kingsy>tusk: yeah its running magento so its pretty intensive php
09:31-!-John [~John@firewall.sghms.ac.uk] has joined #linode
09:31<tusk>Kingsys: apache sending files back without processing doesn't require much work.
09:31-!-nehalem [~481b0a3c@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
09:31<Kingsy>tusk: wow there is ALOT of crap in that file --> here is a little snippit --> http://pastie.org/3207599
09:31<rnowak>php script timeout? how long is quite a bit of work?
09:31<rnowak>!alot
09:31<linbot>http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html | http://e-cabi.net/alot.jpg
09:31<tusk>Kingsy: ok. then maybe you need to increase the memory setting in php.ini
09:32<tusk>grep -A25 "Resource Limits" php.ini
09:32<Kingsy>tusk: running out of memory in php tho should give you a fatal error.. not a problem loading page
09:32<tusk>Kingsy: it depends on your phh configuring.
09:33<Kingsy>tusk well the mem limit is set to 128M which is a little low..
09:33<tusk>I think default each php script can only use 32M
09:33<tusk>low ?
09:33<tusk>128M for each php session ?
09:33<tusk>it sounds high for me.
09:33<@irgeek>Running out of memory won't give you an error page if you're OOMing.
09:34<Kingsy>tusk: well yeah its enough to not give me errors.. so its not that
09:34<@irgeek>The kernel is killing the process you're talking to, hence the connection reset.
09:34<Kingsy>irgeek: right, can I find out why thats happenin?
09:34<tusk>it should say so in the messages file.
09:34<tusk>or check the kernel ring buffer with dmesg
09:35<Kingsy>tusk: what do you mean? above what I posted in that pastie?
09:35<Kingsy>it should tell you?
09:35<tusk>url please again.
09:35-!-burningdog [~roger@196-215-5-124.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: burningdog]
09:36<Kingsy>oh it says Jan 17 18:49:37 deimos kernel: apache2: page allocation failure: order:3, mode:0x20
09:36<Kingsy>Jan 17 18:49:37 deimos kernel: Pid: 32071, comm: apache2 Not tainted 3.0.0-linode35 #1 then a call trace
09:36<Kingsy>so a page allocation failure??
09:38<tusk>try as root:
09:38<goose>Linode should participate in the blackout
09:38<tusk>echo 16384 > /proc/sys/vm/min_free_kbytes
09:39<Kingsy>tusk: that returns nothing ( I am logged in as root)
09:39<tusk>yes but it does change a kernel parameter
09:39<tusk>see eg. http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=7308
09:40<tusk>http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=7451
09:40<Kingsy>tusk: umm you want me to reboot the kernel ?
09:41<tusk>no
09:41<nehalem>@goose, Why do you say that?
09:41<tusk>You have already change that kernel parameter with the echo command.
09:41<tusk>to make it permanent (if it solves your problem) you need to edit /etc/sysctl.conf
09:41<Kingsy>tusk: oh ok.. so how do I check its changed? or is that it? work done.. see if the issue reappears?
09:41<tusk>yes. wait and see.
09:42<Kingsy>tusk: thanks then.. I will just see what happens.. I am using the server so I guess I will find out soon enough
09:43<tusk>good luck
09:43<auraka>linode I am dissapoint....not one SOPA/PIPA blog post....sad
09:44<Kingsy>btw.. for a person who is new to server admin, is install apc difficult?
09:44<@mikegrb>lulz
09:44<Kingsy>tusk: lol that didnt fix it.. I just got the error again
09:45<Kingsy>tusk: I am not even convinced that the error in messages is related to the error.. the times don't match up
09:46<Kingsy>also the date says the 17th on the log and it just happened 1 min ago ont he 18th
09:47-!-AviMarcus [~avi@bzq-79-176-136-113.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #linode
09:48<Kingsy>tusk: yep.. since that error before and the error I just got there has been nothing new entered in messages
09:48<@irgeek>Kingsy: Check your console.
09:48<Kingsy>irgeek: the linode manager? or the terminal? and for what?
09:49<@irgeek>Not all kernel errors show up in logs - sometimes the kernel can't allocate memory to write them to disk.
09:49<Kingsy>irgeek: so what would you recommend?
09:49<@irgeek>09:29:59 <@irgeek> You're looking for the Remote Access tab. There's info about accessing your console there.
09:50<@irgeek>In the Linode Manager.
09:50<Kingsy>irgeek: I was monitoring "top" and I didnt see a spike
09:50<Kingsy>ok
09:50<nehalem>Kingsy, it is very easy to install APC
09:51<Kingsy>irgeek: ah cool in the console it says --> echo 16384 > /proc/sys/vm/min_free_kbytes
09:51<Kingsy>oops sorry wrong paste
09:51<Kingsy>Out of memory: Kill process 3594 (apache2) score 105 or sacrifice child <-- THAT
09:51-!-mighteejim [~9bf7a61d@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
09:51<Kingsy>followed by Killed process 3594 (apache2) total-vm:155320kB, anon-rss:77976kB, file-rss:0kB
09:52<@irgeek>Kingsy: Hit enter a few times to mark where you are, and try again.
09:53<@irgeek>When you hit another connection reset, check the console again.
09:53<@irgeek>You'll probably see that error come up.
09:53-!-basro_ [~basro@190.19.112.94] has joined #linode
09:54<Kingsy>irgeek: I cant force the error again
09:55<@irgeek>Just do whatever you were doing. You'll probably hit it again.
09:57<Kingsy>irgeek: I cant force it again for some reason.. but why do I have to? if I have the error messages?
09:58<@irgeek>Because there's no timestamp in the console log to correlate the error to the message.
09:59-!-nehalem [~481b0a3c@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:00<Kingsy>irgeek.. well check this out --> http://pastie.org/3207752 all of those messages are new apart from the login part.. I didnt receive the connection reset error tho
10:02<@irgeek>Ah. I didn't realize you were seeing the OOM-killer without the reset.
10:02<Kingsy>irgeek: heh neither did I
10:03<@irgeek>So yes. You're using too much memory and the kernel is killing your Apache processes.
10:03-!-corycollier [~corycolli@8.26.119.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:03<Kingsy>irgeek: so what would you suggest?
10:04-!-rverrips [~rverrips@2.50.142.112] has joined #linode
10:04<Kingsy>is this a case of a software mod? or upgrade the server?
10:04<@irgeek>Your only options are using less memory or upgrading so you have more.
10:04-!-rverrips [~rverrips@2.50.142.112] has quit []
10:04<@irgeek>Pastebin the output of: ps axuf
10:05-!-rverrips [~rverrips@2.50.142.112] has joined #linode
10:06<Kingsy>irgeek: http://pastie.org/3207775 <--
10:07<Kingsy>irgeek: I am assuming that is showing all of my server processes and how much memory they are using?
10:07<@irgeek>Look at the RSS column for the Apache processes.
10:08<@irgeek>They're using *lots* of memory each.
10:08<Kingsy>what is RSS? I would have thought the MEM column would be what we wanted to look at?
10:08-!-corycollier [~corycolli@8.26.119.250] has joined #linode
10:08<@irgeek>MEM is a percentage.
10:08<Kingsy>so 18% of the available memory isnt that bad?
10:09-!-mighteejim [~9bf7a61d@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:09<@irgeek>o_O
10:09<@irgeek>18% * 5 processes is almost all of your memory.
10:09<@irgeek>When they get too high, they get killed.
10:10<Kingsy>irgeek: I cant even remember how much memory I have on this server
10:10<@irgeek>free -m
10:11<Kingsy>irgeek: 497 used 473
10:11<dwfreed>O.O
10:12<Kingsy>what is O.O ?
10:12<rnowak>oO
10:13<Kingsy>wtf?
10:13<rnowak>dbluteeeff
10:13<@irgeek>Kingsy: The way you're doing everything now, your Linode doesn't have enough memory to run that particular software.
10:13<Kingsy>irgeek: what would you suggestg?
10:14-!-Austin__ [~austin@96.45.197.22] has joined #linode
10:14<dwfreed>Kingsy: O.O is an emoticon that simulates wide-open eyes, effectively meaning "Wow"
10:16-!-EriksLV [~EriksLV@46.109.116.76] has joined #linode
10:16<EriksLV>hi
10:16<Kingsy>dwfreed: ah right so.. wow you have used all of your memory
10:16<dwfreed>yeah
10:17<Kingsy>wow.. upgrading is REALLY expensive... the max you can have on a vps is like 800MB of RAM ?
10:17<@tparker>uh
10:17<Kingsy>irgeek: is there a way of working with what I have somehow?
10:17<swaj>linode offers nodes up to 20GB of RAM
10:18<@irgeek>Kingsy: We don't offer a Linode with 800MB.
10:18<Kingsy>oh? I was just looking in my linode manager extras section is all
10:18<hawk>Kingsy: https://manager.linode.com/signup/#plans
10:18<@irgeek>Don't use the extras. They're meant for "I need a quick boost of RAM for a few days"
10:18<swaj>also, have you exhausted apache tweaking options? (using a different MPM, etc)
10:19<@irgeek>Moving the PHP stuff into a separate process will probably help.
10:19<Kingsy>irgeek: ah ok I see.. so it would be a seperate plan
10:19<swaj>I mean like apache + mpm_worker (or mpm_event) and php5-fpm would probably help a lot for memory consumption.
10:19<Kingsy>irgeek: moving it to a seperate process..?
10:19<@irgeek>What swaj just suggested.
10:20<Kingsy>swaj: no I havent heard of em
10:20<swaj>so you're probably using mpm_prefork or whatever
10:20<@irgeek>That's going to require reconfiguring what you have now.
10:20<Kingsy>swaj: I am yeah
10:20<swaj>yeah mpm_prefork is a memory hog -- you using mod_php, too?
10:20<EriksLV>Getting stuck between spammers and their victims is not fun. Not fun at all.
10:21<Kingsy>swaj I am not sure.. how do I check?
10:21<swaj>eh, do you have the package installed?
10:21<swaj>how did you install PHP?
10:21<Ghost>lamp
10:21<Kingsy>swaj: wiht apt-get
10:21<swaj>no I mean, what package did you install?
10:22<swaj>ubuntu or debian?
10:22<Kingsy>php5
10:22<Kingsy>ubuntu
10:22<@irgeek>Kingsy: You have to do the cost/benefit analysis of the time it will take to reconfigure vs the extra money it costs to throw more memory at the problem.
10:22<swaj>what version of ubuntu? 10.04 LTS?
10:22<Kingsy>swaj: yeah
10:22<Kingsy>irgeek: yeah I would rather try and customize the server.. this way I will learn a little too
10:23<Kingsy>learning was the whole reason I got the server :)
10:23<swaj>so yeah, there's not a distro php5-fpm package, but MTecknology runs the nginx PPA for ubuntu that has it.
10:23<swaj>for lucid
10:24-!-vraa [~vraa@99-20-202-44.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:24<Kingsy>swaj: I am a little lost.. is pgp5-fpm a extension for php that handles the way php uses memory? if so is it a case of install and done? do you install and enable in php.ini and your done?
10:24<Kingsy>php5**
10:24<swaj>php5-fpm basically runs PHP in a FastCGI process, outside of your webserver
10:24<swaj>so you proxy requests from the webserver to php5-fpm
10:25<swaj>it's faster, and uses a bit less memory in practice.
10:25<Kingsy>swaj: so its alot slower?
10:25<swaj>no, the contrary
10:25-!-orudie [~paul@ool-4b7f8ec4.static.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:25<swaj>it's a dedicated pool of processes just for PHP stuff
10:25<Kingsy>hehe so why wouldnt every guy under the sun use it?? :P
10:25-!-orudie [~paul@ool-4b7f8ec4.static.optonline.net] has joined #linode
10:26<swaj>Kingsy: eh, in my experience, most people that know about FPM, use it.
10:26<dwfreed>Kingsy: just about every regular here who runs PHP sites and doesn't use Apache uses php65-fpm
10:26<dwfreed>s/65/5/
10:26-!-devcomp [~devcomp@c-68-44-68-134.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linode
10:27<swaj>again, MTecknology (a linode regular) runs the PPA for it: https://launchpad.net/~nginx/+archive/php5
10:27<Kingsy>swaj: ok so.. lets get back to prefork first.. what should I be using? I take it that mod_prefork is an apache extension that decides how apache handles processes?
10:27<swaj>correct
10:28<Kingsy>swaj: an prefork is crap default?
10:28-!-John [~John@firewall.sghms.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: User divided by zero]
10:28<swaj>it's not bad, it's just old, and uses more memory than the newer mpm_worker (or the beta mpm_event which I prefer)
10:29<Kingsy>swaj: just out of curiousity.. is there a way of measuring how much memory per request I am saving?
10:29<Kingsy>like now can I do a server request.. save the memory usage.. make a change refresh and compare?
10:29<hawk>Kingsy: prefork in itself is not the most efficient worker process model, but it's not quite that awful _unless_ you have mod_php which makes the worker processes huge
10:29-!-rainman [~erik@cavia.solidlinks.nl] has joined #linode
10:29<swaj>there's a lot of variables there
10:29<swaj>mod_php is definitely your biggest memory hog
10:29<swaj>(imo)
10:29-!-hfb [~hfb@cpe-98-151-249-95.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:30<swaj>which is what you have installed
10:30<Kingsy>swaj: is there a easy way of noting right now how much memory per request my server is eating? use free -m ?
10:30<hawk>Kingsy: The worst problem with prefork + mod_php is probably that it's hard to configure things in a reasonable way to limit php memory usage and still serve a lot of static files
10:31<swaj>not that I know of... free -m isn't going to give you realistic numbers
10:31<Kingsy>sorry I meant ps auxf
10:31<swaj>eh
10:31<swaj>memory per request is a questionable measurement anyway
10:31<swaj>it depends on so many things
10:32<Kingsy>swaj: basically I am going to be making changes to free up memory.. how am I going to be able to tell its working.. without.. "taking your word for it" I know your not lying but it would be nice to see the changes as I go
10:32<swaj>my advice to you, if you want to keep using that 512, is to use php5-fpm + mod_fastcgi (or whatever it is in Apache)
10:32<swaj>Kingsy: switch and watch your total memory free up and errors go away :P
10:33-!-mpkossen [~mpkossen@188.202.125.121] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:33<Kingsy>swaj: by total memory free up.. you mean monitor free -m ?
10:33<swaj>yep
10:33<Kingsy>ok cool
10:33<Kingsy>so..
10:33<Kingsy>how do you tell apache to swtich from prefork..
10:33*Kingsy looks in apache2.conf
10:34<swaj>I think with ubuntu you can just switch to a different mpm package
10:34<swaj>I think it's like "sudo apt-get install apache2-mpm-worker"
10:34<swaj>to switch to worker mpm
10:34<swaj>it'll remove prefork, install worker, and restart apache
10:36<Kingsy>swaj: ok thats done..
10:36<Kingsy>it removed prefork and seemed to install mpm worker and restart.. looked ok to me
10:36<swaj>make sure you take the time to configure it, tweak the settings, etc. :)
10:36<swaj>http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/worker.html
10:37*MTecknology was pinged
10:37<swaj>so the next thing I'd do is either compile PHP5 yourself to get fpm, or use MTecknology's PPA :)
10:37<Kingsy>swaj: well now my site doesnt work.. whenever I load a page it just asks me if I want to save it
10:37<MTecknology>php5-fpm is in debian unstable and ubuntu+1
10:37<swaj>he's on lucid :P
10:37<MTecknology>ooooold!
10:38<swaj>https://launchpad.net/~nginx/+archive/php5
10:38<Kingsy>swaj: why would that be happenin?
10:38<swaj>that's the PPA if you don't want to build PHP yourself
10:38<MTecknology>I'm getting excited for Ubuntu 12.10; I'm getting bored with 12.04
10:38<swaj>it might have removed mod_php when you switched workers, I'm not sure
10:38-!-gerryvdm [~gerryvdm@d5152D00E.static.telenet.be] has joined #linode
10:38<Kingsy>swaj ah ok ..
10:39<Kingsy>so just install php5-fpm and it should be ok then
10:39<swaj>well...
10:39<swaj>then you need to reconfigure the vhosts to send php requests off to php5-fpm via fastcgi
10:39<swaj>and then you're done :P
10:39-!-devcomp [~devcomp@c-68-44-68-134.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: devcomp]
10:39<swaj>because apache no longer processes PHP for you at that point -- that's php5-fpm's job
10:40<swaj>this is why I use nginx. I don't like apache's configuration... that and nginx is zomgfast.
10:40<Kingsy>swaj: ok so.. deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/nginx/php5/ubuntu lucid main you just ype that and deb-src etc into the console.. and you done?
10:40<Kingsy>or do you then apt-get install php5-fpm ?
10:41<swaj>um, I think you can just do "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:nginx/php5"
10:41<swaj>to enable it
10:41<swaj>then sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get install php5-fpm
10:42<Kingsy>swaj: naaa -bash: add-apt-repository: command not found
10:42-!-devcomp [~devcomp@c-68-44-68-134.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linode
10:42<swaj>sudo apt-get install python-software-properties
10:42-!-andrew [~andrew@70.134.67.192] has joined #linode
10:42<swaj>then try the add-apt-respository again
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10:43<MTecknology>swaj: he using nginx?
10:43<swaj>no
10:43<swaj>apache
10:43<MTecknology>booo!
10:43<swaj>:P
10:44<MTecknology>:)
10:44<swaj><3 nginx
10:44<Kingsy>swaj: ok thats installed
10:44<swaj>alright, so you'll need mod_fastcgi installed so apache can send the php stuff off to php5-fpm
10:44<Kingsy>swaj: php still isnt handling the http request tho
10:45<swaj>also you may want to tweak the php5-fpm config
10:45<Kingsy>swaj: so sudo apt-get install apache2-mod-fastcgi or something?
10:45<swaj>try "sudo a2enmod fastcgi" and see if that works
10:46<swaj>it might already be installed
10:46<Kingsy>naa it says the module doesnt exist
10:46<swaj>try "sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-fcgid"
10:47-!-caker [~caker@ns.theshore.net] has joined #linode
10:47<swaj>then sudo a2endmod fcgid
10:47-!-Taranli_Maren [~taranli@li252-11.members.linode.com] has joined #linode
10:48<Kingsy>just installed it.. restarted apache but it still says --> ERROR: Module fastcgi does not exist!
10:48<@mikegrb>lulz
10:48<Kingsy>oh lol sorry 1 sec
10:48<Kingsy>swaj: ok so its enabled.
10:49<swaj>okay so the last step is to configure your virtualhost to send PHP requests off to php5-fpm
10:49<Kingsy>swaj: by virtualhost do you mean apache?
10:50<swaj>check apache's config folder
10:50<swaj>do you have a config file for mod_fcgid?
10:51<Kingsy>you mean in /etc/apache2/ ? no
10:51-!-squircle [~squircle@2001:470:1d:647:cabc:c8ff:fee7:8bb7] has joined #linode
10:52<Kingsy>swaj: ah in mods-enabled/ I have a fcgid.conf
10:52<swaj>yeah that's what I mean
10:52<linbot>New news from forums: is it possible to install ioncube using the yum command ? in General Discussion <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8314>
10:53<Kingsy>so cool yeah I have it here
10:53<swaj>in there you should do something like this: http://paste.linode.com/6172
10:53<Kingsy>swaj: it doesnt have a whole lot inside
10:54<swaj>change the paths tho
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10:56<Kingsy>swaj: I cant find the fcgi-bin
10:56-!-quicksketch [~quicksket@75-144-242-34-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #linode
10:56<Kingsy>its not in usr like your path..
10:56<swaj>it's a fake directory
10:56<swaj>where is your site stored on the disk?
10:56<swaj>/var/www ?
10:57<Kingsy>oh no, /srv/
10:57<Kingsy>but I have 3 sites
10:57<Kingsy>so there is 3 dirs in /srv/
10:57<Kingsy>that are hosted
10:57<@heckman>srving cats
10:57<swaj>so then remove that from fcgid.conf
10:58<Kingsy>swaj: remove what? that entire ScriptAlias /fcgi-bin/ "/usr/local/apache2/fcgi-bin/" line?
10:58<swaj>and add something like this to each virtualhost: http://paste.linode.com/6173
10:58<swaj>remove all the crap from my first paste, and leave it as it was, then add the second paste stuff to each vhost
10:58<Kingsy>oho k
10:58<swaj>change /srv/whatever.com to the real path
11:00<swaj>the php5.fcgi file doesn't need to exist, you're just making a fake path, and then telling fastcgi to intercept calls to that fake path, then telling any *.php file to be processed by fastcgi
11:01<Kingsy>swaj: so a sample would be http://pastie.org/3208083 <-- where something.co.uk is my doamin
11:02<swaj>yeah exactly
11:02<swaj>that looks right to me
11:02<Kingsy>ok so save and restart apache.. and lets see if it interprets the php
11:02<swaj>change the first srv/whatever.com too :P
11:02<swaj>on line 12
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11:03<Kingsy>swaj, ah missed that.
11:04<Kingsy>argh it looks like I have a syntax error in fcgi.conf I must have changed it back properly
11:04<Kingsy>swaj: http://pastie.org/3208100 <-- is what I have, I thought thats what it started like
11:05<swaj>no :P
11:05-!-MrGeneral [~MrGeneral@2.83.226.41] has joined #linode
11:05<swaj>http://pastie.org/3208101
11:05<swaj>that's the default
11:05<Kingsy>ah right
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11:06-!-MrGeneral [~MrGeneral@ipv6.miguelsp.net] has joined #linode
11:06<MrGeneral>Getting my second Linode today! :)
11:07<Kingsy>swaj: it says Invalid command 'FastCGIExternalServer', perhaps misspelled or defined by a module not included in the server configuration on apache start
11:08<swaj>hmm
11:08<swaj>sec
11:09<swaj>doh, it's because probably you need mod_fastcgi instead of mod_fcgid... I'm not an apache guru so I couldn't remember.
11:09<Kingsy>ah ok
11:09<Kingsy>so.. umm
11:10-!-devcomp [~devcomp@c-68-44-68-134.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linode
11:10<Kingsy>swaj: apt-get install libapache2-mod-fastcgi ?
11:10<Kingsy>and it will restart and enable that for me right?
11:10<swaj>yeah -- and probably want to sudo apt-get remove libapache2-mod-fastcgi
11:10<swaj>err
11:10<swaj>libapache2-mod-fcgid
11:10<Kingsy>ok np
11:11<swaj>then you'll need to tweak the config just slightly
11:11<swaj>change the <IfModule mod_fcgid.c> to <IfModule mod_fastcgi.c> in your virtual host config
11:11<Kingsy>swaj: yeah it says Invalid command 'Action', perhaps misspelled or defined by a module not included in the server configuration on start
11:11<Kingsy>ah
11:11<Kingsy>ok
11:11<swaj>okay, so Action mod isn't installed
11:12<swaj>try "sudo a2enmod action"
11:13<swaj>or actions*
11:13<Kingsy>ok now it started without any errors..
11:13<Kingsy>lets see if php does stuff
11:13-!-goose [~goose@108-93-145-2.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
11:14<Kingsy>swaj: something happened :) I now get Internal Server Error on my site
11:14<swaj>is php5-fpm running?
11:14<swaj>ps aux | grep php
11:14<Kingsy>hm virtualhost looks like this --> http://pastie.org/3208144
11:15<swaj>that looks correct. Can you tell me if php5-fpm is running?
11:15-!-D[a]rkbeholder [darkbehold@124-149-174-219.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:15<Kingsy>that command returns root 4718 0.0 0.7 70724 3884 ? Ss 15:44 0:00 php-fpm: master process (/etc/php5/fpm/main.conf)
11:15<swaj>okay
11:15-!-ngranek_ [~bigjocker@186.93.140.12] has quit [Quit: ngranek_]
11:15<Kingsy>along with a bunch of www-data 4748 0.0 0.6 70720 3244 ? S 15:44 0:00 php-fpm: pool www
11:15<swaj>so it's running
11:16<swaj>yep
11:16<Kingsy>yeah :0
11:16<swaj>that's what we expect
11:16<Kingsy>:)*
11:16<swaj>let's check the error logs
11:16<swaj>tail -n 10 /var/log/some-apache-file-I-dont-know.log
11:17<Kingsy>swaj: hmm /var/log/apache2/error.log contains --> [Wed Jan 18 16:13:24 2012] [notice] Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_fcgid/2.3.4 mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.6.5 mod_ruby/1.2.6 Ruby/1.8.7(2010-01-10) mod_perl/2.0.4 Perl/v5.10.1 configured -- resuming normal operations
11:18<Kingsy>not thats a notice so that wont be it
11:18<Kingsy>swaj: I cant really see any log that would apply
11:19<swaj>hmm
11:19<swaj>nothing above that?
11:20<Kingsy>swaj the php5-fpm log just says Jan 18 15:44:07.204235 [NOTICE] ready to handle connections
11:20<swaj>do "sudo netstat -punta | grep -i php"
11:20<swaj>does that show anything?
11:21<Kingsy>swaj: no nothing
11:21<swaj>I'm betting php5-fpm is running on a unix socket... okay
11:21<swaj>let's check php5-fpm's config
11:21-!-Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc18-reig4-2-0-cust124.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #linode
11:22<swaj>it's probably in /etc/php5/fpm or something similar
11:22<swaj>look for php-fpm.conf (or php5-fpm.conf)
11:23<Kingsy>swaj: well I am in /etc/php5/fpm/ there are a few files --> conf.d main.conf php.ini pool.d I guess main.conf?
11:23<swaj>actually it's in that path you posted
11:23<swaj>/etc/php5/fpm/main.conf
11:23<swaj>yeah
11:23<linbot>New news from forums: Seperate database linode on same physical machine in Sales Questions and Answers <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8297> || Disabling external IP Address in Linode Manager in Feature Request/Bug Report <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8320>
11:24<swaj>check that for a "listen" line
11:25<Kingsy>ok 1 sec
11:25<Kingsy>swaj: there isnt a listen line
11:26<Kingsy>swaj: http://pastie.org/3208203
11:27<swaj>okay look for a config file in /etc/php5/fpm/pool.d
11:27-!-stafamus [~stafamus@host-92-24-40-5.ppp.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:27<Kingsy>ah here we go
11:27<Kingsy>its listening on port 9000
11:28<swaj>so "sudo netstat -punta | grep 9000"
11:28<Kingsy>swaj: yeah that returned the tcp listening
11:29<swaj>there's gotta be an error in the log somewhere
11:30<lBOTos>bloop beep boop
11:30-!-DephNet[Paul] [~Paul@host-92-27-204-46.static.as13285.net] has joined #linode
11:30<Kingsy>swaj: man, is there a better way to find it.. I cant seem to see anything of note
11:31<swaj>anything in /srv/logs/error.log ?
11:32-!-dubenstein [~dubenstei@199.192.241.16] has joined #linode
11:32<Kingsy>ffs I forgot I set that as the log in my virtual host
11:32<Kingsy>damn
11:33<swaj>I see an issue in your config too
11:33<Kingsy>swaj: yeah it says [Wed Jan 18 16:33:09 2012] [error] [client 109.145.92.127] Request exceeded the limit of 10 internal redirects due to probable configuration error. Use 'LimitInternalRecursion' to increase the limit if necessary. Use 'LogLevel debug' to get a backtrace.
11:33<MrGeneral>What's the most Stable DC? Fremont, Dallas, Atlanta or Newark?
11:33-!-Taranli_Maren [~taranli@li252-11.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:33<swaj>the alias line
11:33<swaj>Alias /php5.fcgi /srv/kingsy.co.uk/php5.fastcgi
11:34<swaj>both those file names need to be the same -- change the php5.fcgi to php5.fastcgi
11:34<linbot>New news from forums: ShutDown 100% processes - Automaticly in Performance and Tuning <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8319>
11:34-!-dubenstein [~dubenstei@199.192.241.16] has quit []
11:34<squircle>MrGeneral: not fremont
11:34<Kingsy>swaj: ah ok I will do that now
11:34<MrGeneral>squircle, so, what do you suggest?
11:34<Kingsy>swaj: ok fixed that..
11:35<swaj>restart?
11:35<squircle>MrGeneral: whatever is closest to you or the majority of your users
11:35<MrGeneral>squircle, USA in general :-P
11:35<swaj>Action application/x-httpd-fastphp5 /php5.fcgi <-- change that one too
11:35<MrGeneral>Do you have any ips?
11:35<EugeneKay>!speedtest
11:35<linbot>http://www.linode.com/speedtest
11:35<EugeneKay>!mtr
11:35<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ or http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/ for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
11:35<MrGeneral>thanks EugeneKay !
11:35<swaj>oh wait wrong window :P
11:36<Kingsy>swaj: ok done that..
11:36<swaj>anything new in the log?
11:36<Kingsy>restarted apache and I still get that internal recurrsion error
11:36<Kingsy>ok let me check the errro
11:36<Kingsy>log
11:37<swaj>if it's broken still, try adding a "LogLevel debug" after the ErrorLog directive in your virtualhost -- maybe we can get more info
11:37<Kingsy>swaj: nope still says [Wed Jan 18 16:36:51 2012] [error] [client 109.145.92.127] Request exceeded the limit of 10 internal redirects due to probable configuration error. Use 'LimitInternalRecursion' to increase the limit if necessary. Use 'LogLevel debug' to get a backtrace.
11:37<Kingsy>ok
11:37-!-dubenstein [~dubenstei@8.19.32.36] has joined #linode
11:39<Kingsy>swaj: ok got some more info here --> http://pastie.org/3208267
11:39<Kingsy>swaj: this is magento.. I don't suppose that matters?
11:40-!-corycollier [~corycolli@8.26.119.250] has joined #linode
11:40<Kingsy>its just php at the end of the day I guess
11:40<swaj>shouldn't
11:40<Kingsy>yeah didnt think so
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11:45<swaj>that's weird
11:45<swaj>unless there's an .htaccess file that's messing with something...
11:45<swaj>can you check if /srv/kingsy.co.uk/.htaccess exists?
11:45<Kingsy>yeah just looking into that now
11:45<Kingsy>I was thinking that
11:46<Kingsy>ah there is a rewrite rule --> should this --> RewriteRule .* index.php [L] <-- be RewriteRule .* fastcgiphp [L] <-- or something?
11:47<swaj>that's probably the offending rule actually
11:47<swaj>it's sending every request for anything to index.php
11:47<Kingsy>yeah
11:47<Kingsy>bang
11:47<Kingsy>not really sure what to change it to tho
11:47<Kingsy>umm
11:48<swaj>well
11:48<swaj>you can try moving the fastcgi process out of that folder
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11:48<swaj>but I don't think that will matter
11:49<Kingsy>swaj: well I changed it to php5.fastcgi and it worked.. (I got that from the virtualhost setup)
11:49<Kingsy>so thats good :)
11:49<Kingsy>swaj: free -m says I have 173mb free now
11:50<swaj>I would try just commenting that line out with a #
11:50<swaj>and seeing if it works
11:50<swaj>and remember to turn off the debug logging
11:50<Kingsy>swaj: you need that line to ensure the bootstrap file works in magento
11:50<swaj>that really sucks
11:51<swaj>to me that looks like even static assets are going to be served by PHP
11:51<Kingsy>yeah.. its just the way mvc works isnt it?
11:51<Kingsy>bootstrap EVERYTHING
11:51<Kingsy>apart from various things of course
11:51<swaj>meh, not the way I do it, but whatever :P
11:51<Kingsy>such as the image folder.. etc
11:52<swaj>I let my webserver sent static content directly and never touch the routing engine
11:52<Kingsy>swaj: well that seems to have freed up about 100MB of ram.. is that about what you thought we would get?
11:52<swaj>check the +/- disks/cache line . See www.linuxatemyram.com for more info
11:53<swaj>buffers/cache that is
11:53-!-wkl [~wkl@122.198.132.145] has joined #linode
11:54<Kingsy>swaj: ah cool.. so it actually has 300MB free
11:54<swaj>:)
11:54<Kingsy>wow thats LOADS
11:54<Kingsy>in comparrison I mean
11:54<swaj>now you know why I recommended php5-fpm
11:54<@heckman>twss?
11:54<@mikegrb>lulz
11:54<swaj>lol
11:54-!-bbeausej [~Adium@mirage.turbulent.ca] has joined #linode
11:54<Kingsy>swaj: I wish I kinda had a more in depth understanding of what we just did there.. I know what I installed.. but I am just not sure WHY it helped..
11:55<Kingsy>I thought a cgi-bin was for perl? and don't laugh
11:55<@heckman>I have high hopes that Debian 7.0 will have php5-fpm in their repos.
11:55<swaj>it's in unstable, heckman :P
11:55<swaj>which means Debian 8
11:55<@heckman>Seriously?
11:55<swaj>yar
11:55<@heckman>Ugh....
11:55<@heckman>12.04 is going to have it.
11:55<swaj>maybe they'll move it to testing :)
11:55<swaj>if enough people want it
11:56<Kingsy>swaj: is there a way of learning something about the setup we just implemented?
11:56<swaj>Kingsy: basically, what you did was disable an old, somewhat inefficent apache worker
11:56<swaj>that kept the entirety of mod_php in every worker process
11:56<swaj>and moved php out to a separate pool of worker threads
11:56<swaj>so apache does not manage PHP for you anymore
11:56-!-goose [~goose@108-93-145-2.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Staying alive can kill you, it's taken years off of my life.]
11:57<swaj>and thus, each apache process does't need a copy of PHP in memory
11:57<@heckman>swaj: it's in testing: php5-fpm (5.3.8.0-1+b1) server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (FPM-CGI binary)
11:57<swaj>heckman: ah, good, so it'll be in 7.0 :)
11:57<Kingsy>swaj: ah ok I think i see
11:57<swaj>Kingsy: php5-fpm is another fastcgi-enabled server.
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11:58<swaj>Kingsy: so you told apache "If you see anything come in for a .php file, send that request over fastcgi to this special server and let it handle that request"
11:58<Kingsy>swaj: what is a fashcgi server?
11:58<swaj>it's a fast, CGI server :P
11:58<swaj>CGI is a protocol
11:59<swaj>basically, CGI is a protocol that lets webservers speak to external processes
11:59<swaj>like RPC
11:59<swaj>fastcgi is newer version that doesn't suck :)
12:00<Kingsy>so CGI is a internal protocol? or does that not make sense?
12:00<Kingsy>sorry I am just new to this server game :P
12:00<swaj>php5-fpm is a fastcgi server that let's any webserver that speeds FastCGI process php scripts
12:00<swaj>it's an interface between the webserver and a custom script or process
12:00<swaj>it's just a standard way of communicating between those processes
12:00<swaj>speeds=supports, man I must be tired :P
12:01-!-TimTim [TimTim@cpe-098-026-149-108.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
12:01<Kingsy>swaj: what I mean is... I always assumed a protocol was a way of something communicating with something else through ports?
12:01<swaj>right
12:01<Kingsy>this isnt like that?
12:01<swaj>that's what you're doing
12:01<Kingsy>ah ok
12:01<swaj>PHP5-FPM is using 127.0.0.1:9000 on your box
12:01<swaj>apache is then using mod_fastcgi to communicate with PHP5-FPM on that port
12:01<Kingsy>ah ok, so its listening to a internal port
12:02<swaj>fastcgi is the protocol/interface they use to communicate
12:02<Kingsy>ok so..
12:02<swaj>just like your browser uses HTTP
12:02<swaj>over port 80
12:02<swaj>you're using FastCGI over port 9000
12:02<Kingsy>apache listens on port 80 and gets a request... it then uses mod_worker??? right? to handle the request
12:02<swaj>correct
12:03<swaj>then mod worker sees your vhost config and says "oh this request is for a php file, let's send that off to php5.fastcgi"
12:03<swaj>then the action line you added says "php5.fastcgi" is actually at "/srv/blah.com/php5.fasgcgi"
12:03<Kingsy>but thats a fake file that doesnt exist right?
12:03<Kingsy>cos I sure as hell didnt make it :)
12:04-!-JediMaster [~JediMaste@94-194-5-195.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #linode
12:04<swaj>then the fastcgiserver line you added says "hey, /srv/blah.com/php5.fastcgi is really just a fake guy, and you should send this request to host 127.0.0.1:9000 using fastcgi"
12:04*JediMaster hugs php5-fpm
12:04<swaj>then php5-fpm gets the communications on port 9000 using fastcgi, and it says "hey I can handle that" and runs your script. Then it communicates back with apache and says "okay, I ran the script, here's the output"
12:04<Kingsy>ok, then php5-fpm interprets for php and returns it to apache
12:04<swaj>then apache says "here you go user, here's your request"
12:05<Kingsy>which returns it to you using http
12:05<swaj>exactly
12:05<JediMaster>ewww, apache and php5-fpm?
12:05<JediMaster>if you're going to the hassle of using php5-fpm, use nginx!
12:05<@mikegrb>lulz
12:05<swaj>lol I was fighting one battle at a time :P
12:05<JediMaster>ah fair enough
12:05<JediMaster>=)
12:05<swaj>got him off prefork + mod_php at least :)
12:05<@mikegrb>lulz
12:05<Kingsy>lol
12:05<JediMaster>good job
12:06<Kingsy>I still don't really understand what prefork did tbh.. why was it so bad?
12:06<swaj>prefork loaded up some processes to handle requests
12:06<Kingsy>I understand mod_php was crap cos it was opening a new php thrad for every request
12:06<swaj>but then it loaded the entire PHP runtime inside each process.
12:06<Kingsy>thats right yeah?
12:06<swaj>so instead of one copy of PHP
12:06-!-EriksLV [~EriksLV@46.109.116.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:06<Kingsy>swaj: thats mod_php that did that right?
12:06<swaj>you were running 1 PHP * (num of processes) copies
12:07<swaj>yeah, well sorta :) it was the prefork + mod_php combo that made it happen
12:07<swaj>mod_php isn't inherently terrible, just combining it with prefork can make your server gobble memory like candy.
12:07<Kingsy>swaj: how the hell did you learn all of this?
12:07<Kingsy>I wanna know it all :)
12:08<swaj>if you want a really fast webserver with almost no memory usage, I recommend nginx :)
12:08<swaj>but yeah
12:08<swaj>another battle
12:08<swaj>nginx is a beast
12:08*JediMaster has 50 nginx + php-fpm servers
12:08<swaj>only problem is you'd have to convert those whacky htaccess rules to nginx
12:08<Kingsy>can you recommend any sources that teach you this stuff?
12:09<@heckman>I think mod_rewrite is a little more fully baked.
12:09<swaj>I'm just a web developer that watches lots of blogs/forums/etc.
12:09<swaj>mod_rewrite is indeed quite good. I wish igor would just steal it and bake it into nginx :P
12:09*JediMaster just dives head first into trying new stuff, breaks things then learns from fixing them =)
12:09<Kingsy>swaj: you know of any good blogs I could learn some of this stuff?
12:09<swaj>uh, not off the top of my head
12:09<JediMaster>much to the annoyance of my mother when I used to pull apart the TV
12:09<swaj>I just follow .NET guys mostly
12:09<swaj>a few ruby guys
12:10<swaj>find the figureheads in your community of choice and follow them :)
12:10<swaj>oh, and I follow a crazy python guy too
12:10<swaj>(Zed Shaw)
12:10<swaj>Zed's got a lot of good advice
12:11<Kingsy>well I don't use python
12:11<swaj>http://learncodethehardway.org/
12:11<swaj>Zed's online ebook club
12:11<swaj>he teaches
12:11<Kingsy>cool
12:11<swaj>all his stuff is free for the HTML versions
12:11<swaj>and his writing is good
12:12<JediMaster>Kingsy: RTFM too, php.net is a good resource for PHP =)
12:13<JediMaster>especially when you can do: php.net/htmlentities for instance
12:13<rnowak>it is a good reference manual which you can use if you know how to program
12:13<JediMaster>yes true
12:13<JediMaster>not great from nothing though
12:13<Kingsy>well it was pretty cool installing that I just wish i knew what I was doing a little more (with config)
12:13<rnowak>knowing how to program, the technique, is not quite the same as just needing to look up things for your platform
12:13<swaj>PHP is protesting SOPA :P
12:13<JediMaster>really?
12:13<JediMaster>oh yeah!
12:13<@mikegrb>lulz
12:13<JediMaster>lol
12:14<Kingsy>wow
12:14<JediMaster>so is wikipedia
12:14<swaj>yeah
12:14<swaj>so is reddit :P
12:14<Kingsy>is this a good place to hang out? maybe learn stuff in here too?
12:14<Kingsy>or is this support only? no idle
12:14<JediMaster>yup, all sorts of questions get asked here, generally someone has the answer
12:14<rnowak>you'll learn that debian is superior, and that urmom is always relevant
12:14<Kingsy>cool
12:15<Kingsy>ubuntu is debian right?
12:15*rnowak dies
12:15<JediMaster>it's based on it
12:15<JediMaster>different group of people
12:15<rnowak>ubuntu's like the bastard black sheep of the family <3
12:15<JediMaster>got to love it
12:15<rnowak>!debian
12:15<linbot>Today is Debian Appreciation Day! \o/
12:15<GaveUp>it's the bratty grandson that thinks it knows everything and is the center of the world :P
12:16<swaj>indeed
12:16<Kingsy>personal preference I guess, I have picked xubuntu as my distro for my desktops and ubuntu as my server distro
12:16<swaj>yeah
12:16<swaj>I used to be an ubuntu guy, but debian offered me cookies, so I switched.
12:16<rnowak>good enough choices, if you now don't feel the need to run pure superiority on your server (:
12:16*akerl runs for his Arch flag
12:16<GaveUp>personal preference sure...doesn't mean one of the choices isn't wrong :P
12:16<JediMaster>it's basically debian backed by a company with a few flavours and newer packages than the stable version of debian, as they release every 6 months instead of every 6 years...
12:17*rnowak trips akerl and ties him up to a debian flagpole
12:17<Kingsy>akerl: I used to use arch but it just wasnt friendly enough for a n00bie like me :)
12:17<Alan>holy crap do i want to kill openjdk
12:17<@akerl>rnowak: Don't make me fix your debian trigger again
12:17<swaj>ubuntu = debian testing + various nonfree stuff + unity and ubuntu branding crap :)
12:17<Alan>it needs to be destroyed
12:17<Alan>completely
12:17<rnowak>akerl: >:(
12:17<JediMaster>however, for that reason it can be marginally less stable than debian, but I never notice any problems myself
12:17<Kingsy>well I gotta run guys..
12:17<Kingsy>swaj: awesome stuff.. thanks so much
12:17<rnowak>something that arch can't
12:17<swaj>you're welcome :)
12:18<swaj>glad you're running with lots of free RAM now
12:18<Kingsy>yeah.. feeeeellin good
12:18<JediMaster>even more if you use nginx =)
12:18<Kingsy>I will be back a bit later on
12:19<Kingsy>laters ppl swaj: thanks again
12:19<rnowak>so do you folks use ephemeral diffie-hellman on your ssl terminated servers, or have you disabled it?
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13:11<linbot>New news from forums: putty keeps disconnecting!! in General Discussion <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8311>
13:11-!-JediMaster [JediMaster@94-194-5-195.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #linode
13:11*JediMaster kicks o2
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14:22<WTFRed>Quick question: If i create a instance/vps can it later be moved to another account?
14:23<WTFRed>As in create in my account for a client and eventually move to another account when the client takes over billing
14:23<bdube>WTFRed: I think with a ticket from both accounts, you can do that
14:23<squircle>I don't see why not, as long as both parties consented
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14:24<WTFRed>Cool, thanks
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14:31<mdcollins>Some how my scroll back killed xchat on startup and now my apartment's water has been turned off >_<
14:31<mdcollins>I should specify. My apartment complex's water*
14:32*heckman continues with the plan to drive mdcollins mad
14:32<mdcollins>Have you been making my cat poop on the floor?!?
14:32<auraka>well.....today work productivity is up :-/
14:32<rnowak>mdcollins: that's not cat poo
14:32<@heckman>mdcollins: the cat was easy to convince
14:33-!-mighteejim [~9bf774b9@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:33<mdcollins>Ah good ol #linode :D
14:33-!-nehalem [~481b0a3c@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:34<auraka>wow....congressmen are dropping SOPA support quickly
14:35<rnowak>they needed to research it on wikipedia, and notice they couldn't
14:35<rnowak>+d
14:37-!-John[a] [~John@host86-182-148-157.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: User divided by zero]
14:38<auraka>or the fact that their phone is ringing off the hook with "WHY DID YOU BREAK MY IE"
14:38<mdcollins>Good, I hope SOPA dies a horrible death it deserves.
14:39-!-eyepulp [~eyepulp@c-67-173-34-83.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #linode
14:41<auraka>http://www.mediaite.com/tv/wikipedia-founder-jimmy-wales-trashes-sopa-on-outfront/
14:42<hawk>mdcollins: But think of poor MPAA, they feel the protests are such an "abuse of power" and a "dangerous and troubling development" :P
14:43<Nivex>They're just pissed that when the chips are down we can scream louder than they can.
14:43-!-seanyu [~seanyu@216.55.28.118] has joined #linode
14:44<swaj>All those dollars they spent lobbying for SOPA and PIPA... gone :P
14:44<auraka>not yet
14:44<hawk>Far from gone at this stage...
14:44<swaj>the bill sponsors in both cases have backed down
14:45<kyhwana>But it's still going to be looked at next month too
14:45<swaj>and the president has said he will veto them
14:45<mdcollins>I thought it was being voted on in a few days?
14:46<swaj>Jan 24 is the day it's supposed to be voted on, but if the bill sponsors withdraw, it will be killed.
14:46<swaj>PIPA's co-sponsor has withdrawn
14:46<swaj>and SOPA's main sponsor has withdrawn as well
14:46<kyhwana>swaj: he also said he'd veto the law that allows the US military to detain anyone anywhere for any reason
14:46<auraka>http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/01/18/exp-point-ohanian-sopa-pipa.cnn
14:47<swaj>he'll veto it, election year coming
14:47<squircle>i was far too young to remember... was there this much outrage over the PATRIOT act?
14:47<kyhwana>squircle: think of the children!
14:48<Nivex>"The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch." *AA called our bluff and we hit 'em hard.
14:48<Kos>squircle: don't believe so, but social media wasn't as huge back thenas it is today
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14:52<mdcollins>:O google's front page is censored!
14:52-!-darkrain42 [~paul@c-24-17-241-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linode
14:53<mbreslin>the sopa supporters pockets are deep
14:53<swaj>google, wordpress, wikipedia, reddit, the FSF, destructoid, minecraft -- they'are all protesting :)
14:54<Kos>don't forgot zombo.com
14:54<mbreslin>the people who's campaigns they're happy to give millions to have no term limits and can afford to grind it out
14:54<mbreslin>some form of the bill will pass with plenty of nasty shit to go around
14:54<@mikegrb>lulz
14:54<swaj>lol
14:54<swaj>that's ludicrous
14:55<mdcollins>They will just attach parts of it to other unrelated bills >_<
14:55<hawk>mdcollins: Most likely
14:55<hawk>Yes, that's more or less standard procedure, isn't it?
14:55<mbreslin>americans don't have the attention span to keep up the fight in any kind of extended battle
14:55<swaj>when you take away their wikipedia they do
14:56<hawk>swaj: Yeah, but wikipedia will not take itself away indefinitely
14:56<squircle>america makes me sad :(
14:56<mdcollins>It should be illegal to attach unrelated items to a bill, but then who determines it's unrelated.. :(
14:56<swaj>no, but the whole protest thing will just repeat itself
14:56<mbreslin>swaj: i appreciate your optimism
14:56<swaj>the whole "rider" concept should just go away :)
14:56<swaj>there's a lot of support for ending it
14:56<swaj>hope it happens
14:57-!-seanyu [~seanyu@216.55.28.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:57<mbreslin>you can be considered a suspected terroist for having a year's worth of food in your house or whatever it is
14:58<mbreslin>common sense != washington dc
14:58<Nivex>yeah, that's why once SOPA is squashed we need to go after NDAA
14:58<mbreslin>ndaa is law it's not going anywhere
14:59<Nivex>laws get overturned
14:59<GaveUp>and replaced with their uglier cousin
14:59<Nivex>really? I thought sure we could drink alcohol in this country.
15:00<mdcollins>I'm not very political, but I may have to start soon.. First with California's propisitions a few years ago and now this crap.
15:01<Nivex>Today's politicians need to be reminded that their predecessors were actually statesmen, and that the ideals we stand for can't just be soundbytes.
15:01-!-vodka [~rswarts@93-125-149-150.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
15:01<mbreslin>Nivex: i also appreciate your optimism
15:01<GaveUp>s/optimism/delusions/
15:01<@akerl>Nivex: Is it fun living in the minority?
15:01-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@c-174-62-136-89.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.55=-]
15:01<@heckman>pseudoviking for president
15:01<Nivex>mbreslin: Hope is about all we got left.
15:02<Nivex>akerl: No.
15:02<@akerl>The vast majority of americans don't care. That's why there are tons of people who are freaking out that wikipedia is down, but they don't know why
15:02<Nivex>akerl: They do now.
15:02-!-dassouki [~ahmed@205.174.171.12] has joined #linode
15:02<Nivex>which was the point of the exercise
15:03<@akerl>Nivex: People aren't bothering to read the message.
15:03<mdcollins>Now for the great debate of wether or not I shall use the restroom while my water isn't running >_<
15:04<@akerl>Nivex: http://gawker.com/5877192/stupid-high-school-kids-and-teachers-freak-out-over-wikipedia-blackout
15:04<rnowak>(:
15:05<smed_>id10ts
15:05<smed_>how many phone calls I got today stating that "google is down"
15:05<smed_>they should not be allowed to vote.
15:06<mbreslin>99.9% of those tweets are jokes
15:06<@akerl>mbreslin: You wish
15:06<mbreslin>i do
15:06<smed_>I just have stupid users.
15:06*mbreslin cynical && closet optimist
15:07<hawk>Reading those quotes my sarcasm detector goes off repeatedly, but I suppose some of them may be serious.
15:07<@akerl>hawk: There are also far too many people who take Onion articles seriously
15:07<rnowak>hawk: the sarcasm detector is often triggered by them ahmerikunz too (:
15:09<@mikegrb>lulz
15:09<@heckman>akerl: "What is happening with soap omg wikipedia and google" I lol'd
15:09<Kyh>amazon, y u send me emails about buying mp3s when I cant buy them off you?
15:09<mbreslin>my son is reading a book on famour americans and he always gets so bummed out because all of them are dead, well one of them was yo yo ma who is still alive obviously and he was happy and asked where he lives now
15:10<mbreslin>it wasn't easy to find out without wikip
15:10-!-Sputnik7 [~Sputnik7@c-174-62-136-89.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #linode
15:10<mbreslin>s/famour/famous
15:10<@heckman>http://en.m.wikipedia.com/
15:10<@akerl>Or just turn off javascript...
15:10<mdcollins>Hah! GoDaddy stated they supported SOPA only to later say they don't. They probably got a mass flood of emails and calls about that.
15:10<Kos>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/?banner=no
15:11<@heckman>^ more effort x2
15:11<hawk>The encarta jokes have been pretty entertaining, anyway... eg https://twitter.com/#!/fchimero/status/159534245361106944
15:11<Kos>yeah, since links don't retain the ?banner=no parameter =(
15:11-!-dassouki [~ahmed@205.174.171.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:11<mbreslin>hawk: haha!
15:13<mbreslin>when i was young we got our encyclopedia one volume at a time from the grocery store
15:14<hawk>mdcollins: There was a fairly substantial campaign for people to transfer from them (and other registrars provided "nodaddy" deals for transfers etc)
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15:14<mdcollins><- hasn't used GoDaddy in years ;)
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15:16<squircle>does anybody with an xbox want 100 free microsoft points?
15:16<hawk><- has never used godaddy :P
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15:20<squircle>if a lady just got a gun onto a plane at DFW... why does the TSA exist?
15:21-!-Emilio [~Emilio@190.55.71.200] has joined #linode
15:21<Emilio>hi
15:21<squircle>hi!
15:22<mdcollins>Cause they are there for looks.
15:22<squircle>i see
15:22<squircle>do you still have to take your shoes off down there?
15:23<Katana>of course
15:23<squircle>CATSA >> TSA
15:23<Katana>grandma is also considered a massive threat still
15:23<@heckman>piping catsa
15:23<squircle>i always leave my belt and shoes on, phone in pocket, wallet...
15:23<hawk>squircle: To make people feel safe? I dunno...
15:24<Emilio>Hi, someone knows if is possible to have two linodes in the same internal network ?
15:24<Katana>hawk: have you considered how easy it would be to have someone sitting a mile away from an airport with a shoulder-launched stinger?
15:24<squircle>hawk: somehow, the words "america" and "false security" have become synonymous in my head
15:24<squircle>Emilio: of course! data transferred between linodes in the same datacentre is free.
15:25<hawk>Katana: It's not something I usually think of, but sure, why not. I get a feeling you may have misunderstood my point, though.
15:25<Kyh>Emilio: yes, if you have them inside the same DC
15:25<Emilio>squircle, cool. And the speed is good? I want to have two servers using session with a redis backend
15:26<Emilio>So I purchase a new linode, but where can I specify the DC ?
15:26<Katana>hawk: it's an illusion of security when you can just sidestep the entire process and take down the plane from the outside
15:26<squircle>it asks you
15:26<@heckman>It happens after you log in for the first time
15:26<@heckman>It's not part of the sign-up process.
15:26<hawk>Katana: My point was that they are there for show, to make people FEEL safe.
15:27<Katana>hawk: indeed - the israelis have a much more effective system, shame we don't take their example to heart
15:28<Katana>http://twitpic.com/88ueqz <- lawl
15:29<mdcollins>Emilio, When you set up the 'node it'll ask for which DC.
15:29-!-alexgordon [~alexgordo@host-78-150-4-16.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: ( chocolatapp.com )]
15:29<Emilio>mdcollins, perfect. Thanks!
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15:41<mdcollins>Ugh, I think I just talked to someone at a telemarketing place.. I heard a bazillion phones dialing in the background and ringing.
15:41<mdcollins>But only 2 people talking.
15:42<mdcollins>And my water is still not back on..
15:43<rnowak>SOAP cut you off
15:43<rnowak>the cousin of SOPA
15:43<mdcollins>AHA I just heard water rushing!
15:43<mdcollins>Time to go to the bathroom >_<
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15:45-!-duckydan [~duckydan@97.218.100.97.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
15:45<Kyh>O.o
15:46<linbot>New news from forums: IO "Problem"? in General Discussion <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8321>
15:47-!-mighteejim [~9bf789aa@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:49<mdcollins>Nevermind, it's a false alarm.
15:49<Kyh>so no water?
15:49<mdcollins>Nope,
15:52-!-Smilex [~IceChat7@88.85.42.81] has joined #linode
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15:55<Smilex>does a Linode plan come with a domain name?
15:55<Malstrond>no
15:56<Smilex>so I can freely register with a DNS host in Europe?
15:56<dwfreed>yep
15:56<Smilex>perfect, thanks for the help
15:56-!-jrwz [jrwz@pilot.trilug.org] has joined #linode
15:56<Malstrond>Linode is not a registrar. You can use any registrar and use them to point the domain to the IP of your Linode, or to point the domain to the namsevers of linode and then use the linode UI to manage the DNS entries
15:57-!-bbtech [HydraIRC@67-135-43-194.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #linode
15:58<Smilex>I do not have much knowledge with nameservers. Are nameservers hosted with the server, as in, if I were to host in London, the nameserver would be in London?
15:58<bbtech>I am seeing the following in auth.log every second: Jan 19 13:26:10 hostName sshd[27988]: (pam_unix) session opened for user root by (uid=0)
15:58<bbtech>What is that?
15:58<Malstrond>linode runs the namsever, you use the webui to set which DNS entries you want: http://library.linode.com/dns-guides/configuring-dns-with-the-linode-manager
15:59<@heckman>bbtech: pastebin a little more context
15:59<Kyh>Smilex: linode has 5-6 DNS servers located in all their DC's (afaik)
15:59<@heckman>5
15:59<@heckman>none in Tokyo
15:59<Kyh>Not one in tokyo yet?
15:59-!-Webhostbudd [~William@isr6632.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #linode
15:59<@heckman>Not yet anyhow
15:59<bbtech>heckman: that is all I got...there are thousands of lines that look just like that
16:00<mdcollins>Possibly someone trying to log in as root?
16:00<@heckman>Seems like it.
16:00<@akerl>s/trying/succeeding/
16:00<bbtech>heckman: only thing that changes between the lines is the sshd[NUMBER] - I assume that is the PID
16:00-!-duckydan [~duckydan@97.218.100.97.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #linode
16:00<bbtech>akerl:the succedding part is what I'm worried about
16:00<bbtech>who, only shows two users (one of which is myself)
16:00<@akerl>bbtech: Is your sshd logging somewhere else?
16:01<Kyh>bbtech: do you have allow root login via ssh turned on?
16:01<bbtech>Kyh: I can login as root via an ssh key - so yes
16:01-!-jrwz [jrwz@pilot.trilug.org] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:02*bbtech is very unfamiliar with this box - it's located offshore :/
16:02<bbtech>SyslogFacility AUTH
16:02<bbtech>SyslogFacility AUTHPRIV
16:04-!-Heron [~heron@c-76-22-9-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<Kyh>Hmm, is it set to only allow logins via key auth ?
16:04<mdcollins>Is ssh set only to allow key logins?
16:04-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has joined #linode
16:04<Bartzy>resizing to a 512 node..
16:05<Smilex>Malstrond, I hope I do not sound too stupid, but I don't see any information about which nameserver or DNS service, is European?
16:05-!-vraa [~vraa@99-20-202-44.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
16:05<Bartzy>Didn't have a 512 one for a long time.. suddenly it seems so small ;p
16:05<mdcollins>Meh, I run my home server with less memory :P
16:05<bbtech>nope, looks like password login is allowed as well
16:06<Kyh>Smilex: what do you mean?
16:06<Kyh>Smilex: there's a linode DNS server in london
16:06<Bartzy>mdcollins: It will just host some gearman workers that upload stuff
16:06-!-mariusz [~mks@wsip-72-215-50-194.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:07<Smilex>Kyh, I'm not exactly sure myself, I don't know what a nameserver is, and my favorite fast research site, wikipedia.org, is protesting, so what I want is to have a DNS server with my plan that is out of US jurisdiction and not owned by ICANN
16:07-!-vodka [~paper@154.Red-83-43-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #linode
16:08<Malstrond>that'll be hard considering ICANN has the root servers
16:09<@akerl>Smilex: You can still use wikipedia you know?
16:09<Smilex>akerl, by disabling javascript or embedded stylesheets?
16:09<Bartzy>Do you use your ssh key for lish as well ?
16:10<Bartzy>or did you generate another key only for that ?
16:10<@akerl>Smilex: Yea, or adding ?banner=no or by hitting ESC before the banner
16:10<Kyh>Smilex: Oh, hope you're not planning on using a domain that are run by any US companies (like .com/.org/etc)
16:10<Malstrond>Smilex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?banner=no
16:10<@heckman>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/
16:10<@heckman>Otherwise you need to add the banner every time.
16:11<Kyh>Because the DHS can still "seize" any domains that are registered with any US registrars or owa tld run by a US company
16:11<Smilex>Kyh, forgot about the domains.. .net is also US domain?
16:12<Kyh>And linode is still a US company, so failing that the US can force linode to change your DNS records
16:12<Kyh>Smilex: yep
16:12<Kyh>(If you use the linode DNS servers)
16:12*mdcollins *shakes fist at america*
16:12<Smilex>I clearly do not understand the system well enough.
16:13-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:13-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has joined #linode
16:13<Bartzy>Hey
16:14<Bartzy>got disconnected.. anyone answered my Lish ssh key question? :)
16:14<@heckman>It's your own personal preference. My SSH keys are by machine.
16:14<@akerl>I tend to use one priv key per device
16:14<@heckman>FIRST
16:14<Kyh>Smilex: basically, you're boned either way, the US thinks (and can seem to) do whatever it wants, even too other countries
16:14<dzho>first rule of key security is . . .
16:14<Smilex>ok, maybe I should just ask it plainly. Is there any way I can host with Linode, and have the US have no juristiction or ties to my servers. Also if it is possible that my money won't go to US taxes, that'd be great
16:14<retro|blah>Bartzy: I use the same key for both but my level of paranoia is lower than average
16:14<Kyh>Smilex: nope
16:14<Malstrond>nope
16:14<@akerl>Smilex: No
16:15<dzho>one of these things is not like the others
16:15<Kyh>I have a .nz domain for that reason ;)
16:16<Smilex>oh well, dissapointment is a big part of being an idealist, I guess
16:16<Malstrond>it all starts and ends with ICANN, which is under US jurisdiction. ICANN delegates every .tld to other registrars, for example the german .de to the DENIC. the DENIC is not under US jurisdiction. but the ICANN could in theory reverse the delegation at any time
16:16<Malstrond>so even .tlds of other countries are not "safe"
16:16<Smilex>I would have thought that Europe would at least be compitent enough to provide its own services.
16:17<hawk>heckman, akerl: But you are talking about one key per machine you connect _from_, right? As I read Bartzy's question it was about different keys for different things he connects _to_...?
16:17<Bartzy>heckman: You have a SSH key-pair for each machine?? by machine you mean server, or a machine you use physically ?
16:17<@heckman>Remeber, Al Gore invented the internet.
16:17<Malstrond>an few attempts have been made, for example the Open Root Server Network, but they all fizzled
16:17<@heckman>I have a pubkey for each computer I personally use, and I have a single pubkey that all of my servers use to communicate with one another.
16:18<Smilex>Malstrond, but I've heard that the American infastructure is not great, when it comes to internet services, and that Sweden, for example, has a much better infastructure. If this is true, should a DNS service be able to provide better service in Sweden than the US?
16:19-!-bbtech [HydraIRC@67-135-43-194.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.]
16:19<linbot>New news from forums: wallclock drift on Debian 6 (2011) i386 Linode in General Discussion <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8324>
16:20<hawk>Smilex: For servicing the US there is quite a bit of latency with that distance (which you can't do much about, speed of light is only so fast...)
16:21<rnowak>bastard slow light
16:21<Malstrond>Smilex: for DNS reliablity it doesn't really matter. the router of some random end user probably uses the DNS server of their ISP, which copies and caches the DNS data from a root server. even if it went down or had latency, it wouldn't matter.
16:21<Bartzy>retro|blah: yeah, I guess... what could happen :p
16:22<hawk>Malstrond: "copies and caches data from a root server" sounds like a weird way of describing the lookup process...
16:22-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:22<rnowak>!cdn
16:22<linbot>http://imgur.com/BUn0Q
16:23<Tea>Except imgur is blacked out so that's useless
16:23<Malstrond>working for me, do they have a geolocation-based blackout?
16:23<rnowak>http://ovron.com/tmp/cdn.jpg
16:24<hawk>Malstrond: Probably
16:24<rnowak>I got the blackout image before on imgur, it is gone now though
16:24<Tea>Well I'm in England and SOPA is apparently only a US thing (it's not) so I don't see it being geolocation
16:24<rnowak>actually it isn't - new images still show the SOPA
16:25<Smilex>Malstrond, well thanks for the help
16:25-!-Bartzy [~bar@82.166.148.26] has joined #linode
16:25<Bartzy>What's a good hostname for a machine that uploads and deletes files from a central storage ? :p
16:25<Bartzy>uploader-01 sucks :<
16:26<@akerl>I'm not a fan of using a hostname to define purpose, unless it's symbolism
16:27<rnowak>call it patrickstar
16:28<Kyh>putrmrfer ? ;)
16:28<rnowak>patrickstar is the best name for it, be quiet
16:28<@akerl>I have to agree
16:29<dwfreed>because of !cdn, heh
16:30-!-mariusz [~mks@c-24-2-237-12.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #linode
16:33-!-Smilex [~IceChat7@88.85.42.81] has quit [Quit: If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space]
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16:42<Bartzy>akerl: But when you have many servers it becomes tedious to call them in random names
16:43<@akerl>Bartzy: How often are you "calling" them things?
16:43<@akerl>Like only when you ssh?
16:45-!-Bass10 [Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #linode
16:51-!-Ghost [~Ghost@210.23.81.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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17:01-!-vodka [~paper@154.Red-83-43-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:02<DephNet[Paul]>Bartzy, not really, I have quite a few servers, and they are all named after elements, and I know what each one does
17:02<rnowak>get off my lawn
17:03<Bartzy>akerl: if you have 20 application servers
17:03-!-seanyu [~seanyu@216.55.28.118] has joined #linode
17:03<Bartzy>won't you just call them app-01 app-02 or something like that ?
17:03<rnowak>we've got over 800 nodes, they all have pretty names!
17:03<Kyh>rnowak: are there enough gods out there? ;)
17:04<@akerl>Bartzy: Nope. What happens when a applictation server is no longer an application server?
17:04<rnowak>Kyh: they are molecule names (:
17:04<Bartzy>or beers ?
17:04<Bartzy>akerl: shred it :)
17:04<Kyh>hehe
17:04<Bartzy>akerl: You'll probably want to redeploy anyway...
17:06-!-brandon [~smuxi@c-67-191-204-200.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #linode
17:07-!-joshdotsmith [~joshsmith@173-163-32-233-cpennsylvania.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: joshdotsmith]
17:08<Null_>you don't like a hostname to define purpose? Is admining them your day job or just a hobby?
17:08<rnowak>ye I have over 800 computers in my closet
17:09<Kyh>or 800 VMs
17:09<Null_>could be, didn't notice your reply, was referring to akerl, sorry
17:09-!-userx_ [~0x@188-221-232-150.zone12.bethere.co.uk] has joined #linode
17:11<@akerl>my servers are all personal, but I still lobby against purpose-related names
17:11<Null_>to each their own I guess. I find being able to easily identify what subsystem, location, and function a host has by simply looking at hostname (either via monitoring, or munin, or whatever) insanely useful.
17:11<SpaceHobo><redacted>
17:11<Null_>of course
17:11<SpaceHobo><redacted>
17:11<SpaceHobo><redacted>
17:11<Null_>1 name, 1 purpose
17:11<SpaceHobo><redacted>
17:12<Null_>not in our environment. (aside from some legacy stuff)
17:12<Null_>everything is vm's, and everything is nicely compartmentalized.
17:12<SpaceHobo><redacted>
17:12<SpaceHobo><redacted>
17:13<SpaceHobo><redacted>
17:14<Null_>true, most of our hardware is simply the dom0's or cluster controllers, which do have meaningful names, but thats because they make sense to in their case. They do that 1 thing.
17:16<Null_>still, some hardware we inherited that were named after some anime show were nothing but annoying to deal with
17:16-!-NdFeB1 [~phocidon@99-10-236-199.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
17:16-!-NdFeB is now known as Guest24454
17:16-!-NdFeB1 is now known as NdFeB
17:16-!-warren [warren@dhcp-168-105-241-161.wireless.manoa.hawaii.edu] has joined #linode
17:17<mdcollins>Hence why functional names are better, anyone can look and have a better idea of what it does over animeShow as a hostname..
17:17-!-warren [warren@dhcp-168-105-241-161.wireless.manoa.hawaii.edu] has quit []
17:17<Null_>exactly!
17:17<rnowak>so what would you have done if you got one called webserver14 if you already had one called webserver14?
17:17-!-compywiz [~compywiz@c-24-0-162-78.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linode
17:18<rnowak>surely you'd switch its name, just like you should have done with the servers you inherited
17:18<Null_>right
17:18<praetorian>functional names can be okay. but please, dont go overboard on them
17:18<Null_>to something equally useful like webserver15....so whats your point?
17:18<praetorian>server-sydney-kentst-web-frontned-01
17:18<mdcollins>webserver is too general, if you can, make it more specific to the subdomain or something.
17:19<rnowak>what my point is? don't like the anime names? assign them names that follow your scheme
17:19-!-corycollier [~corycolli@8.26.119.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:19<praetorian>mdcollins: you assume its only on one subdomain :p
17:19-!-oeuftete [~oeuftete@142.68.128.247] has joined #linode
17:20<mdcollins>Well, if it's that general and you only need a few for the whole webserver, then webserver01 works.
17:20<mdcollins>Err, whole website*
17:21<Null_>purpose.subsystem.environment.rootdomain is generally what we've moved to. It can get somewhat cumbersome, but, always know where to find things.
17:21<praetorian>hows rsi?
17:22-!-Guest24454 [~phocidon@99-10-236-199.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:22<praetorian>tbh at work we use sr-<type><os>-<desc>.<reg>.<domain>
17:22<praetorian>sr-uat2k8-pax01.syd....
17:23<Null_>someone tried incorporating rack locations into hostnames, got way out of hand, heh
17:23<rnowak>you need an asset tracking plan
17:25-!-seanyu [~seanyu@216.55.28.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:25<Null_>its true, company decided to get rid of the colo guys and push it onto our shoulders, so that aspect could be better.
17:25<Null_>flat files in git parsed by various scripts give us useful output at this point
17:25<Null_>semi-annoying
17:25-!-seanyu [~seanyu@216.55.28.118] has joined #linode
17:25-!-fisted_ [~fisted@xdsl-87-78-211-224.netcologne.de] has joined #linode
17:25<rnowak>heh
17:26-!-squircle [~squircle@d24-150-105-60.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
17:26-!-ILiuz [~ILiuz@cm-84.215.97.99.getinternet.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:27<Null_>thankfully most things are vm's now, hardware footprint is much less these days
17:27-!-Boohemian [~Boohemian@wrls-67-134-207-224.wrls.harvard.edu] has joined #linode
17:28-!-fisted [~fisted@xdsl-87-78-211-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:28<praetorian>one would say you could use TXT records to give you information like rack location
17:28<praetorian>:p
17:31<bob2>bah
17:31<bob2>HINFO or gtfo
17:31-!-dwfreed [dwfreed@sekhmet.lug.mtu.edu] has quit [Quit: Changing server]
17:31-!-dwfreed [~dwfreed@sekhmet.lug.mtu.edu] has joined #linode
17:32-!-dwfreed is now known as Guest24455
17:32-!-userx_ [~0x@188-221-232-150.zone12.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33-!-Guest24455 [~dwfreed@sekhmet.lug.mtu.edu] has quit []
17:33-!-dwfreed_ [~dwfreed@sekhmet.lug.mtu.edu] has joined #linode
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17:34-!-Kingsy [~3e1fc374@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
17:34<Kingsy>swaj: you around?
17:35-!-JoshMTB [~Adium@193.113.13.94] has joined #linode
17:36<JoshMTB>Hey. I'mm following the static networking guide for CentOS, but it doesn't specifically say what the netmask & gateways are, I would thought they would be local IPs?
17:36<squircle>it says in the linode manager
17:36-!-seanh-ansca1 [~Adium@173-8-133-236-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:36<bob2>(it is local and thus dc-specific and thus not in the instructions)
17:36<squircle>dashboard of your linode on the Remote Access tab
17:36-!-seanh-ansca [~Adium@173-8-133-236-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #linode
17:37<JoshMTB>I just pinged them & realised they're close
17:37<JoshMTB>Just didn't seem like local IPs
17:38<JoshMTB>The netmask isn't, but I presume that doesn't change?
17:38<JoshMTB>or is the one after the slash?
17:38<squircle>^^
17:38<squircle>the one after the slash
17:38-!-dwfreed_ [~dwfreed@sekhmet.lug.mtu.edu] has joined #linode
17:38<JoshMTB>Thanks :)
17:39-!-Malstrond [Malstrond@notaserver.org] has quit [Quit: Quit.]
17:39<@heckman>Public IPs are 255.255.255.0, Private IPs have a netmask of 255.255.128.03
17:39-!-dwfreed_ is now known as dwfreed
17:39<@heckman>er 255.255.128.0
17:40-!-Goatbert [U2FsdGVkX1@bunsen.goatbert.com] has joined #linode
17:40-!-userme [~userme@c-76-117-129-126.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linode
17:40<JoshMTB>Now I lost connection to the linode :/
17:40<JoshMTB>Shwing.
17:40<JoshMTB>Give lish a bash
17:40-!-Malstrond [Malstrond@notaserver.org] has joined #linode
17:41<@akerl>I've got lish configured in my ssh_config for easy magics
17:41-!-Boohemian [~Boohemian@wrls-67-134-207-224.wrls.harvard.edu] has quit [Quit: Going to eat and then (hopefully) have sex. g'nite!]
17:42-!-adnc [~akif@77-22-73-193-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
17:43<JoshMTB>Lish worked fine, that's some pretty cool sw.
17:44-!-genehack [~genehack@216-15-37-37.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:44<JoshMTB>Now to work out why it did that
17:44<Goatbert>why is my linode asking me for a passphrase for a key that doesn't have one
17:44<Goatbert>I think I'm losing my mind.
17:44<Goatbert>its testing me, trying to break me.
17:44-!-Boohemian [~Boohemian@wrls-67-134-207-224.wrls.harvard.edu] has joined #linode
17:45<hawk>Goatbert: Uhm, care to elaborate on that? Why would _linode_ ask for a passphrase for a key at all?
17:46<caker>Password:
17:46-!-mode/#linode [+o caker] by ChanServ
17:46<@akerl>iluvcake
17:46<Goatbert>using linode as a description of one of my linodes, not Linode the company :)
17:46<rnowak>*******
17:46<@akerl>Goatbert: It's asking you for a passphrase when you ssh?
17:46<Goatbert>yeah it is very strange
17:46<rnowak>Goatbert: the server doesn't ask for passphrases, your local client does
17:46<@caker>heh
17:46<@akerl>Run the ssh command with -vvv and pastebin it?
17:46<Goatbert>right but the same key to another box
17:46<Goatbert>doesn't ask for it
17:46<Kingsy>swaj: for when you get back.. sorry about that and nevermnd, I had a problem with roundcube but it was because the configuration files were reset when we loaded fpm.. I fixed it
17:46<Goatbert>this is why I think I might be going insane.
17:46<@caker>one
17:46<@caker>time
17:47<@caker>at
17:47<@caker>band
17:47<@caker>camp
17:47<rnowak>cool
17:47<rnowak>story
17:47<@akerl> /ignore cakeboss
17:47<@akerl>:)
17:47<hawk>Goatbert: Are you sure the password prompt is regarding the key at all? Or did it give up on key based auth and fall back to password auth?
17:47<@akerl>Hence my request for ssh -vvv. Lets see exactly what's going on
17:47<Goatbert>yup, checking it now
17:47<rnowak>you may want to manually supply which key you want to use too
17:48<Goatbert>Enter passphrase for key '/home/goatbert/.ssh/id_rsa.pub':
17:48<Goatbert>fwiw
17:48-!-Boohemian [~Boohemian@wrls-67-134-207-224.wrls.harvard.edu] has quit []
17:48<Goatbert>excellent I think I know what it is
17:49<Goatbert>debug3: sign_and_send_pubkey
17:49<Goatbert>debug1: PEM_read_PrivateKey failed
17:49<Goatbert>debug1: read PEM private key done: type <unknown>
17:49<Goatbert>sorry
17:49-!-Kingsy [~3e1fc374@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:49<Goatbert>meant to pastebin that
17:49<Goatbert>augh
17:51<hawk>Goatbert: Why does it try to use the ".pub" one?
17:51<Goatbert>yeah I just saw that myself
17:51<linbot>New news from forums: internet black out in /dev/random <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8325>
17:51<hawk>Goatbert: Have you put something weird in the config or are you specifying something weird on the command line?
17:51<Goatbert>hawk: inherited the config so I'm checking now
17:52<Goatbert>victory
17:52<Goatbert>thanks!
17:52-!-zenteaboy [~c1d10cc7@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
17:52-!-vodka [~paper@154.Red-83-43-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #linode
17:53<zenteaboy>I just made the fix described here to on of my linodes.. do I need to reset the network interface in order for the new TCP window sizes to be in effect?
17:53<zenteaboy>http://scie.nti.st/2008/3/14/amazon-s3-and-connection-reset-by-peer
17:54<Kyh>zenteaboy: don't think so
17:54-!-squircle [~squircle@d24-150-105-60.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: squircle]
17:56<hawk>zenteaboy: Hrm, you really have something in the network path that can't handle large window sizes?
17:56-!-boba [retrograde@lost.in.meatspace.net] has quit [Quit: boba]
17:58<zenteaboy>most of the files I'm migrating to S3 are under 1MB in size, but for some reason, after uploading some random amount of files, it gives the connection reseted by peer
17:58<zenteaboy>that's the only explanation i've able to find so far
17:59-!-boba [retrograde@lost.in.meatspace.net] has joined #linode
18:00<bob2>are you blocking icmp
18:00<zenteaboy>bob2: how do I know if I'm blocking icmp?
18:01<hawk>Do you have any iptables rules at all?
18:02-!-seanyu [~seanyu@216.55.28.118] has joined #linode
18:02<@akerl>zenteaboy: Pastebin your `iptables -L -nv`?
18:03<bob2>actually, i'm probably wasting your time, i can't think how it could matter
18:03<zenteaboy>http://www.pastie.org/private/jyvgvx1ldtersnqj7j7a
18:03-!-smed_ [~smed@173-12-5-58-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:04-!-TomAdam [~tadam@cpc3-aztw22-2-0-cust892.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #linode
18:04<TomAdam>hi
18:04<TomAdam>i'm having a bit of trouble connecting to my linode from another server
18:04<Kyh>TomAdam: define "trouble connecting"
18:05<TomAdam>timeouts
18:05<Kyh>for what?
18:05<TomAdam>however i can ping
18:05<TomAdam>ssh
18:05<TomAdam>and anything else that is not a ping
18:05<TomAdam>i have mtr'd it
18:05<TomAdam>from both sides
18:05<Kyh>right, so your ssh server is down?
18:05<TomAdam>no
18:05<TomAdam>it works fine from my home
18:05<TomAdam>its just one server to another
18:06<TomAdam>linode to non-linode
18:06<TomAdam>and visevera
18:06<swaj>!enter
18:06<linbot>IRC supports complete sentences. Less <CR> more content, please.
18:06<Bartzy>oh
18:07<Bartzy>my
18:07<Bartzy>god
18:07<@akerl>TomAdam: So you have access to two different servers, but are having issues connecting between them?
18:07<Bartzy>It's true!
18:07<Kyh>hmm, so you can get to your webserver from your non-linode but not to ssh via the same non-linode?
18:07<TomAdam>mtr shows 50% packet loss in the middle of the chain. thing is i fdont really know who to tell about it
18:07<Kyh>pastie the mtr?
18:07<TomAdam>yeah tahts it aker1
18:07<@akerl>TomAdam: Pastebin the MTR pair for that connection?
18:07-!-Hellojer_ [~Hellojere@89.7.90.160] has joined #linode
18:07<TomAdam>on the way
18:08<hawk>TomAdam: If ping works, maybe mtr isn't the best tool for the job. Did you run tcptraceroute or something lik that?
18:08<TomAdam>i did yesterday
18:09<TomAdam>http://pastie.org/private/3d7ecezlz77lhvhzcso3fa
18:09-!-Hellojere [~Hellojere@89.7.90.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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18:10<@akerl>TomAdam: That loss in the middle looks like ICMP rate limiting. It's not carried through to end loss, so it's unlikely to be the issue
18:10<TomAdam>ah ok
18:10<hawk>TomAdam: What did the tcptraceroute look like?
18:10<TomAdam>i'll make up a pastie
18:12<TomAdam>http://pastie.org/private/bznu7upmot2i7unkk3gtw
18:13<hawk>That looked ok, didn't it? And that was a tcptraceroute on a port that you can't connect to?
18:13<Kyh>TomAdam: no firewall?
18:13<TomAdam>firewalls on both machines
18:13<TomAdam>oh dear
18:13<TomAdam>think i may have been a little stupid here. i'm not the only admin of this machine
18:14<TomAdam>the other admin told me that he had moved the ssh port but kept outgoing to 22 open
18:14<TomAdam>perhaps he didnt
18:14<Kyh>...
18:14<Kyh>fail
18:14-!-db_ [~nohost@c83-252-143-216.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #linode
18:16<zenteaboy>akerl: in case you missed it http://www.pastie.org/private/jyvgvx1ldtersnqj7j7a
18:16-!-basro [~basro@190.19.112.94] has joined #linode
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18:16<@akerl>zenteaboy: Yea, nothing there that would affect things
18:16-!-db [~nohost@c83-252-143-216.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:17<TomAdam>hmm, i'm not so sure about this - just tried tcptraceroute on 22
18:17<TomAdam>http://pastie.org/private/xw1dpehncg5biyrqgry0q
18:17<TomAdam>very different story
18:18<TomAdam>sorry that was just bigger packets
18:18<TomAdam>i'm really hamming this up
18:18<TomAdam>and using <cr> too much - sorry
18:18<@akerl>TomAdam: Are you having intermittent connection issues, or can't connect at all?
18:19-!-laser` [~chris@client-82-0-8-71.mcr-bng-012.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:19<TomAdam>no connection at all
18:19<Kyh>sounds vaughly firewalley then
18:19<swaj>vaguely?
18:20<@akerl>TomAdam: Pastebin `iptables -L -nv` from both sides?
18:20<TomAdam>i'm having trouble operating tcptraceroute. is it tcptraceroute host port?
18:20-!-basro_ [~basro@190.19.112.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:21<hawk>TomAdam: tcptraceroute -p <port> <host> iirc
18:21<TomAdam>akerl: i'm using shorewall on my server. its definetly fine. the other server uses csf. both will have massive iptables listings
18:21-!-JoshMTB [~Adium@193.113.13.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:21<@akerl>TomAdam: The issue you're describing shouts "firewall issue", so you'll need to examine both sides
18:22<TomAdam>yeah
18:22<TomAdam>looks like its the firewall on the server with csf
18:22<TomAdam>tcptraceroute is timing out instantly
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18:25<TomAdam>thanks - i was going down totally the wrong route there
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18:29<TomAdam>yeah thats it fixed, man i feel like an idiot
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18:55-!-A-KO^^ is now known as A-KO
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19:11<@caker>OBJECTS IN MIRROR ARE LOSING
19:12*encode breaks the mirror. Now lets see them win
19:17<LiquidAtom>I really can't get my head around EXT2/3 data block pointers.
19:17<LiquidAtom>My tutor is crap at examples.
19:17<encode>i find it relatively easy, thanks to the small size of flash drive these days
19:18<encode>in fact, I can even get my digestive system around a whole bunch of EXT2/3 data block pointers
19:18<bob2>hahaha
19:25-!-squircle [~squircle@d24-150-105-60.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
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19:57<karstensrage>if i generate a cert and private key for someone, whats a secure'ish way of transferring the password for the key, some asynchronous way like voice over telephone?
19:58<Kyh>karstensrage: pgp?
19:58<bob2>why is it encrypted
19:58<karstensrage>the private key for a cert?
19:58<@akerl>karstensrage: How are you transferring the private key to them?
19:58<karstensrage>email i guess
19:58<@akerl>...
19:59<bob2>what
19:59<@mikegrb>lulz
19:59<Kyh>lol
20:04<karstensrage>im glad i could be so entertaining
20:04-!-orudie_ [~Paul@ool-4575bb41.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #linode
20:05<@akerl>karstensrage: email isn't really a secure method to transport a private key
20:05<karstensrage>this i know
20:06<bob2>scp it
20:06<@akerl>Or have them generate it on their end
20:08<@akerl>The main point being that when you're using an insecure medium to transport the private key, it's wasted effort to lock down your medium for sending the passphrase
20:09<Nivex>Isn't that the whole point of CSRs?
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20:40<tuxetuxe>Hi! Aybody from linnode here?
20:40<tuxetuxe>ups
20:40<tuxetuxe>linode ! :D
20:40<Kyh>!ops
20:40<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information: http://www.linode.com/about/
20:41<linbot>hello! always -- what is your question?
20:41<tuxetuxe>Oh... nice!
20:41<Kyh>!ask
20:41<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
20:41*Kyh slaps linbot
20:41*linbot nibbles on your leg
20:41*linbot slaps Kyh
20:41<squircle>!<3
20:41<linbot><3
20:42<tuxetuxe>I'm triying to resize my linode.. but it keeps saying "Charging the credit card failed." ... I've changed the credit card just now.. is this the reason ?
20:42-!-seanh-ansca [~Adium@173-8-133-236-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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20:42<Kyh>tuxetuxe: is the CC number you've got setup right now valid/under it's limit etc?
20:43<@caker>tuxetuxe: all we're told is that it was declined - we're not told why. You'd need to contact your bank
20:43-!-linville [~linville@sapphire.tuxdriver.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:43-!-squircle [~squircle@d24-150-105-60.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye!]
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20:45<tuxetuxe>One mor question if the linode is reized to a more expensive plan the pro-rated difference is billed and if resized to an less expensive plan the pro-rated difference is credited in the card, right?
20:45<@caker>not the card, your account -- to be used for future invoices
20:46<tuxetuxe>And can it be credited in the card?
20:47<@caker>we can do that if you want, but we charge $5 for the hassle
20:47<tuxetuxe>ok thanks
20:47<HedgeMage>caker: If I'm owed a large credit can I just kidnap linodians to add to my harem in lieu of cash?
20:47*HedgeMage ducks
20:48<Kyh>HedgeMage: who would you want ot kidnap tho?
20:48<Kyh>Perhelion?
20:49<HedgeMage>Kyh: hmmm... I think I'll need photos and more extensive profiles in order to decide for sure.
20:49<HedgeMage>Kyh: though IIRC, Perhelion is female, and thus not likely to be my first choice.
20:49<Kyh>Oh, I see
20:49<Solver>HedgeMage: put out tenders
20:49<Solver>:)
20:50<Solver>if you provide Internet access you should get a decent response
20:50<HedgeMage>heh
20:51<Nivex>caker is worth the most. He runs this shit (http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lb9wvvMDlm1qbuviho1_500.jpg) and he can fly planes.
20:51<Kyh>hehe
20:51<Solver>Nivex: is that caker? woah
20:51<Nivex>no, I was just going for the "I run this shit"
20:51<Solver>Nivex: yeah I got it ;)
20:52<Nivex>though caker in that pose in the Newark datacenter would make for a fine meme
20:52<linbot>New news from forums: Disabling external IP Address in Linode Manager in Feature Request/Bug Report <http://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=8320>
20:52<Solver>I'd like to imagine that caker looks just like that
20:52*caker wields the Wand of Infinite Recursion
20:52*caker leaves south
20:53<Solver>haha - I tried to add [[recursion]] to "See Also" on the wikiupedia recursion page but it didn't fly
20:53*caker do arrives from the south
20:53<@caker>me fail
20:53<@caker>time for a drink!
20:53<Solver>rotfl
20:54<Solver>a drink to improve your accuracy? got it
20:54<Nivex>"When legal isn't happy, I have to drink more."
20:54<Nivex>actually uttered by our director of networking today
20:54<HedgeMage>Ow! Don't make me laugh, I hurt all over.
20:54<Solver>scary :)
20:55*fo0bar gets back to his hotel room
20:55<fo0bar>I know now why canonical calls their travel meetings "sprints"
20:55<@mikegrb>lulz
20:55<HedgeMage>lol
20:55<Solver>fo0bar: tired?
20:55-!-cehartung [~cehartung@pool-72-65-109-88.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #linode
20:56<Solver>fo0bar: do you know Jiko?
20:56<HedgeMage>fo0bar: You get no sympathy. I spent all evening at a seminar that Sensei failed to warn me was full of people 9 and more ranks my senior.
20:56<HedgeMage>fo0bar: I've done some pretty intense sprints, but none where actual fights ensued (even for sparring)
20:57<fo0bar>Solver: my first day was monday (sunday, technically) and yes, it has been a whirlwind of activity
20:57<fo0bar>Solver: doesn't sound familiar
20:57-!-dubenste1n [~dubenstei@46.70.116.227] has joined #linode
20:58<Solver>fo0bar: I'm sure you'll meet him sometime :)
20:58<fo0bar>Solver: dev?
20:58*fo0bar is on the ops side
20:59<fo0bar>not to say I won't eventually meet someone from dev, just saying
20:59<fo0bar>and I don't see that nick in the company directory
20:59<Solver>he may use something else internally
20:59-!-dubenstein [~dubenstei@46.70.192.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59<fo0bar>very well could be
21:00<Solver>I understand there are internal irc servers
21:00-!-wkl [~wkl@61.135.152.207] has joined #linode
21:01<Solver>I've considered applying to Canonical., Working from home again would be attractive
21:02-!-NdFeB [~phocidon@99-10-236-199.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:02<fo0bar>there is an open sysadmin position, but is london office
21:02<Solver>My daughter was quite upset when we told her at 4years that Daddy was getting a new job and would actually be going out to the office to work :)
21:02*fo0bar grabbed the last WFH sysadmin position
21:02-!-dassouki [~ahmed@142.167.83.71] has joined #linode
21:03<Solver>I mostly go for contracts these days
21:03-!-techhelper1 [~techhelpe@pool-108-10-250-98.plspca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #linode
21:03-!-NdFeB [~phocidon@99-10-236-199.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
21:03<Solver>but WFH is always an allure :)
21:04<fo0bar>yeah, it's been nice (my previous job was also WFH)
21:04<Solver>excellent
21:04<Solver>the commute down the stairs is soo hard
21:04<fo0bar>anyway, I came to this window for a reason, but can't remember why. I'm going to go collapse on the couch
21:05<Solver>hahah
21:05*Solver lunches
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21:37<licorna>Hi, I have a problem. I just created an account, but I think I write a wrong password
21:37<licorna>because I'm not able to log in
21:38<Kyh>use the forgotten password link?
21:38<Kyh>and it will email you a link to reset it, etc
21:38<licorna>Ohh..! I got the email now
21:38<licorna>I was in a hurry right now
21:38<licorna>but it's working
21:38<licorna>thanks
21:38<Kyh>great :)
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22:03<rlankfo>problem at fremont?
22:04<@caker>nope - what's up?
22:05<rlankfo>hmm, linode seems down
22:05<@caker>check lish/console?
22:05<@mikegrb>lulz
22:05<Kyh>lol fremont
22:05<Kyh>rlankfo: what does lish say? also define "down"?
22:06<bob2>fremont is a perfectly cromulant dcs, assuming you remember to send caker a box of AAs once a month
22:06<rlankfo>apache is down, can't ssh in, to any linodes i have in fremont, and of course the only ip have approved right now for hte dashboard is one of the linodes
22:06<Kyh>rlankfo: ping/mtr?
22:06<Kyh>rlankfo: well that was pretty dumb wasn't it?
22:07<rlankfo>Kyh: yep, like a boss
22:07<rlankfo>seems like its only the nodes utilizing nis :/
22:08<mbreslin>rlankfo: how about an ip of one of your nodes?
22:08<Kyh>I can get to fremont1.linode.com
22:10<rlankfo>yeah
22:10<rlankfo>no idea what email i have on file with linode either since i haven't received the ip verification email yet
22:10<rlankfo>also, responding to ping requests fine :\ ssh, apache2, etc seem down
22:11<rlankfo>are down
22:11<mbreslin>iptables fail?
22:11<rlankfo>that wouldn't really make sense but i guess its possible
22:12<mbreslin>it's hard to help without an ip
22:12<mbreslin>;/
22:12<rlankfo>yeah 74.207.245.153
22:13<rlankfo>definitely need to figure out what email address i have on file
22:13-!-Bass10 [Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:14<@caker>rlankfo: kernel panic - you need to switch to Latest 3.0 and reboot
22:14-!-zack_ [~zack@207.239.83.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14<rlankfo>caker: on two nodes?
22:14<@caker>I only looked at one
22:14<rlankfo>173.255.212.132
22:15<rlankfo>2/3 in fremont are having problems, the 2/3 out of three using nis.. not sure if that has anything to do with it? all of them are probably ubuntu 9.10 or so
22:15<@caker>173.255.212.132 is OOM killer
22:15-!-ZeeO [~Joel@142-165-14-101.msjw.static.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #linode
22:15<rlankfo>whtas your opinion on disabling OOM killer?
22:16<@caker>you can't. you tune your apps to not OOM
22:16<@caker>!web title http://173.255.212.132/
22:16<rlankfo>ok
22:16<linbot>caker: Login
22:16<rlankfo>possibly some sort of attack?
22:17<Nivex>well, technically you can alter the overcommit behavior to get around OOM killer invocation, but things get even more cranky
22:17<@caker>doesn't really matter ... you shouldn't have your config untuned enough so it will OOM under any circumstance
22:17<bob2>tl;dr if you're using mod_php you need to turn down serverlimit/maxclients/etc
22:17<@caker>keepalives off
22:18<rlankfo>hm ok haven't had any problems with both of these linodes, since 2010 probably
22:18<rlankfo>one is running mod_perl but there should literally be no traffic to it since i'm the only one that accesses it
22:19<rlankfo>i go to the store for a moment, come back, and both are fubar'd
22:19<rlankfo>anyway, caker what can i do on the first one with kernel panic? can you issue a reboot for me?
22:19<praetorian> 14
22:19<praetorian>excuse me.
22:20-!-brandon [~smuxi@c-67-191-204-200.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:20<rlankfo>caker: its ok just got the security alert email all good now
22:20<@caker>word
22:20<mbreslin>my linodes are whatever bob2 is on i need them rebooted please
22:21-!-licorna [~c9d63bea@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:21<praetorian>also my chesterton linode
22:21<rlankfo>i think its time to move away from these 2 smaller linodes and migrate to a beefier one
22:21<bob2>:'(
22:21<bob2>rlankfo, to be clear, turning down maxclients and keepalives will most likely prevent the oom
22:21<bob2>(and needs to be done even if you get a bigger node)
22:21<rlankfo>bob2: its just strange its never happened before
22:22<@caker>still doesn't really matter ... if they were untuned in 2010 you've just been lucky :)
22:22<rlankfo>the server that was OOMing.. no one should have been Fing with it at all
22:22<rlankfo>probably should serve request tracker over vpn from now on anyway
22:22<@caker>spider everything!
22:22<bob2>well, you can read your apache logs to find out what happened
22:22-!-goose [~goose@c-24-30-109-49.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Staying alive can kill you, it's taken years off of my life.]
22:23<@caker>to avoid kernel related issues, everyone should switch to Latest 3.x
22:23<@caker>RIGHT NOW
22:23<rlankfo>i'm betting its nis related
22:23<dwfreed>caker: eh?
22:23<dwfreed>I run 3.2.1
22:23<@caker>showoff.
22:23<bob2>oh noes
22:23<bob2>but what about my uptime and unpatched local kernel root exploits???////
22:24<dwfreed>caker: all it takes is a rootflags=nobarrier in the kernel command line
22:24<rlankfo>yeah time to redo all the servers :|
22:24<@caker>dwfreed: yup! :>
22:24-!-cro [~Adium@68.69.166.52] has joined #linode
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22:24<rlankfo>anything in the linode library about optimal tuning for apache, php, mod_perl, etc ?
22:24<mbreslin>dwfreed: isn't barriers like the main feature of 3.2
22:25<@akerl>!library memory
22:25<linbot>akerl: 1. Troubleshooting Memory and Networking Issues - http://library.linode.com/troubleshooting/memory-networking | 2. Use vmstat to Monitor System Performance - http://library.linode.com/linux-tools/common-commands/vmstat | 3. Provide Authoritative DNS Services with NSD on Fedora 13 - http://library.linode.com/dns-guides/nsd-authoritative-dns-fedora-13
22:25<@akerl>rlankfo: #1 above give some basic pointers for apache/php
22:27<rlankfo>kernel: apache2: page allocation failure. order:4, mode:0x20
22:27<rlankfo>thats when it all went haywire..
22:27<bob2>== oom == maxclients is too high
22:27<mbreslin>rlankfo: people came to your site in droves due to everything else being blacked out
22:28<praetorian>maybe you got slash^Wredd^Wfireballed.
22:28<mbreslin>it was either visit his site or get work done :x
22:29<rlankfo>hmm why would i not have a /var/log/messages all of a sudden?
22:29<@caker>heh
22:29<rlankfo>:P
22:29<@caker>disk full?
22:29<rlankfo>hackers
22:29<rlankfo>hacking the gibsons
22:30<rlankfo>wtmp has been wiped
22:31<nehalem>Hello everyone. Can someone confirm if the nodebalancer system works just like a reverse proxy. ie which IP address would the backend Linodes see?
22:31<mbreslin>if you really think you were hacked sounds like a great time to salvage what you can (and do an audit on it later) and start fresh with a new kernel
22:32<bob2>nehalem, yes
22:32<rlankfo>mbreslin: yeah i think so
22:32<rlankfo>people are out to get me, and they have hired people (fact)
22:32<bob2>ie for http you get x-forwarded-for, for tcp you get jack
22:32<nehalem>Thanks bob2!
22:33<SirSquidness>Crap, rlankfo knows about my peons. Time for plan delta.
22:33<mbreslin>plan delta = water baloons
22:34<bob2>nehalem, ps if you cname'd you may get an ipv6 address in x-forwarded-for
22:34<@mikegrb>lulz
22:34<rlankfo>lol its seriously that petty man
22:34<SirSquidness>sssssh, mbreslin. Plans are meant to be secret!
22:34<rlankfo>a company i used to work for hired a "private i", i'm not even joking
22:35<rlankfo>another guy was recently fired from said company for being "in league" with me, never even talk to the guy, these guys are just paranoid beyond measure
22:35<rlankfo>they had server problems in september, i heard about it because they instantly decided i had something to do with it
22:36<rlankfo>its turning into harassment at this point
22:36<nehalem>bob2, thanks for the info, I get it :-)
22:39<Katana>people who screw with cable configurations on equipment when "it isn't working" and they don't know what the heck they're doing in the first place should be beaten
22:40<rlankfo>yep pretty sure there is some illegal activity going on here though
22:40<rlankfo>think i'm going to hire a 3rd party security company to do the audit
22:40<rlankfo>for now i'm just going to migrate everything
22:42-!-dajhorn [~dajhorn@99-74-253-20.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #linode
22:42*Katana gets into work, gets asked to look at something by one of the instructors in one of the computer labs, finds a machine with the S-VIDEO cable unplugged and an RCA audio cable plugged into an RCA video jack
22:43<dwfreed>heh
22:43*Katana has urge to find the idiot who did this and beat them with their own spleen
22:43<bob2>this is why electrically incompatible ports should be physically incompatbie too
22:43-!-maushu [~maushu@62.169.127.180.rev.optimus.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:46<@Praefectus>Katana: it was me, sorry.. unfortunately, i have no spleen for you to beat me with
22:46-!-alarez [~c9c6fc1e@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
22:47<Katana>Praefectus: your liver will do then
22:47*Katana proceeds to beat Praefectus with his own liver
22:47<@Praefectus>you mean what's left of it?
22:47<Katana>indeed
22:48<Katana>anyways
22:48<Katana>you'd think that people would understand color coding
22:48<alarez>Hi, I'm new to linode and ignore how this works...
22:48<Katana>LIKE WITH LIKE. RED WITH RED, WHITE WITH WHITE, YELLOW WITH YELLOW.
22:48<Katana>but nooooooooo
22:49<linbot>alarez: hello
22:49*Katana goes to vent irritation with violent video games
22:49<alarez>Hello linbot
22:49<Kyh>alarez: ignore how this works?
22:49<linbot>:)
22:49<Katana>that linbot is a spy
22:50<Kyh>linbot is a spy!
22:50-!-userme [~userme@c-76-117-129-126.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:51<alarez>Is this a Community chat where I can ask for help?
22:51<bob2>sure
22:51<Kyh>!ask
22:51<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
22:52<alarez>Thanks... I'm having problems with my linode... Everything was running great for 2 weeks and today the site was down and my domain was pointing to a citadel application
22:52-!-Defenestrator [~maelst0rm@c-69-181-137-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:53<bob2>did you install citade
22:53<bob2>l
22:53<alarez>no I never did
22:53<Kyh>alarez: what kind of problems? how is it down? can you connect to it via ssh? what does LISH say?
22:53<bob2>did you forget to pay your bill
22:54<Kyh>haha
22:54<alarez>I can't do SSH or FTP
22:54<alarez>hahah no I haven't
22:54-!-atula [~neobreed@c-24-63-134-10.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #linode
22:55<Kyh>... you have ftp?
22:55<alarez>Well... I rebuild the entire Linode and everything was running until 30 minutes ago
22:55<Kyh>alarez: right, so what's the IP/domain name you're using?
22:55<alarez>http://lizethcastro.tv/
22:56<@Praefectus>alarez: look at your ticket
22:56<alarez>ok I will
22:58-!-HeavyMetal [~HeavyMeta@d24-150-143-232.home.cgocable.net] has joined #linode
22:59<mbreslin>thoughts on creating virtualbox development enviornments for people stuck on windows
23:00<mbreslin>vs a dev specific linode
23:00<alarez>It Looks that I'm having memory problems... The but news Is that I ignore how to control this.
23:00-!-dubenstein [~dubenstei@46.71.145.171] has joined #linode
23:00<Kyh>alarez: ... if you ignore it, it'll keep happening
23:01<alarez>I'm just running an Small Drupal Site. Can It be some hacking problem?
23:01<Kyh>er, not if you're just OOMing
23:01<Kyh>you need to tweak your (I assume) apache config/etc
23:03<auraka>okay......today was a long day
23:03<@Praefectus>lies
23:03<@Praefectus>it was the same length as yesterday
23:03<alarez>what do you mean be tweak?
23:04-!-mbarnett [~mbarnett@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/]
23:05<Kyh>alarez: make it so your website doesn't use up all your RAM
23:05-!-seanh-ansca [~Adium@c-24-6-142-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
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23:05<Solver>use ALL the ram!
23:05<Solver>:)
23:05<alarez>My php.in is using 128mb
23:06<Kyh>Whats your maxClients in your apache config?
23:06<alarez>256mb
23:07-!-dubenste1n [~dubenstei@46.71.126.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:07-!-userme [~userme@c-76-117-129-126.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #linode
23:08<auraka>Praefectus: you lost some cool points
23:08<@Praefectus>auraka: im over 30, it is no longer my job to be "cool"
23:09<Kyh>alarez: eh?
23:09<Kyh>alarez: see http://library.linode.com/troubleshooting/memory-networking
23:10<alarez>Ok I will... Thanks
23:11<praetorian>Praefectus: you have gained some old points
23:11<@mikegrb>lulz
23:11<@Praefectus>praetorian: i'll gain some more in march lol
23:13-!-zeade [~Adium@c-67-169-180-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
23:17-!-alarez [~c9c6fc1e@chat.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:19-!-Hoggs [~Hoggs@121-73-32-225.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #linode
23:20<praetorian>Praefectus: gain all the things.
23:21-!-Plinker [~plinker@bas9-ottawa23-1242450285.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:26-!-dubenstein [~dubenstei@46.71.145.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:27<nehalem>Is there any preferred OS for HA/high traffic website setups?
23:28<praetorian>windows of course.
23:28<@mikegrb>lulz
23:28<nehalem>lol
23:28<praetorian>most people here will say either Centos/RHEL or Debian
23:28<praetorian>the odd fruitcake will say slackware. :p
23:29-!-sent`80 [~ryan@c-98-248-43-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linode
23:29<pharaun>insane people will say arch or gentoo
23:29<Kyh>gentoo!
23:29<praetorian>and the criminally condemned will say ubuntu.
23:29<pharaun>fedora?
23:30<praetorian>did you hear something?
23:30*pharaun puts on his fedora
23:30<nehalem>Well CentOS/Debian would make sense since it is highly supported/rock solid
23:30<auraka>nehalem: yes....the properly configured one.....with a nodebalancer in front all for you low low price of $20/month for as long as you use it
23:30-!-Boohemian [~Boohemian@209-6-68-240.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #linode
23:31<auraka>supplies are limited....order now
23:31<praetorian>!avail-all
23:31<bob2>centos is terribly supported
23:31<praetorian>quite limited
23:31<linbot>praetorian: Atlanta: 512-693 768-161 1024-33 1536-57 2048-43; Dallas: 512-433 768-84 1024-111 1536-86 2048-65; Fremont: 512-602 768-154 1024-67 1536-196 2048-147; London: 512-417 768-126 1024-51 1536-208 2048-156; Newark: 512-572 768-96 1024-73 1536-107 2048-80; Tokyo: 512-406 768-173 1024-109 1536-94 2048-71; (0.64261) mwallings mom sez hai
23:31<auraka>bob2: compared to?
23:31<bob2>auraka, anything
23:31<bob2>debian, ubuntu, probably even gentoo
23:31<nehalem>Any actual empirical data to show why a Ubuntu, for example, would suck in that situation?
23:32<auraka>okay.....by supported you mean....by the the group....not by the applications you may need to run?
23:32<bob2>sure
23:32<auraka>nehalem: other than arch sucking everywhere...no
23:32<bob2>if you have non-free apps to run, you probably want to pay for rhel
23:32<@mikegrb>lulz
23:32<nehalem>auraka: lol
23:32<praetorian>clean up, aisle 2
23:32*praetorian shotguns auraka
23:33-!-enhance [~ryan@c-98-248-43-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:33<nehalem>I ask because I've deployed a few Ubuntu system with success, uptime over 3 months etc. (Only 3 months because of restarts)
23:33<auraka>bob2: most likely....although some of us are/were pretty cheap and those apps weren't critical but "required" rhel
23:34<auraka>nehalem: in all seriousness no linux distro is really going to have uptime problems if you properly configure it
23:35<auraka>what most of us joke about is how hard it is to configure and MAINTAIN each different distro
23:35<auraka>and some distros are better at updating and not breaking installed apps
23:35-!-tzury [~c7cbc781@chat.linode.com] has joined #linode
23:36<mbreslin>except for arch which refuses to be configured/maintained at all
23:36*auraka high-fives mbreslin
23:36<tzury>hi all
23:37<tzury>multiple domains with SSL on a single server, is SNI just enough or shall I have dedicated IP per domain?
23:37<auraka>if you want something stable stick with a centos, debian stable, ubuntu lts....if you want bleeding edge go fedora, debian testing or ubuntu latest.....and if you want sleep sweats arch/gentoo
23:38<auraka>hope that helps
23:38<bob2>tzury, up to you to decide
23:38<bob2>tzury, old IE-on-windows users are boned by SNI
23:39<nehalem>Yes auraka, thanks. I'll probably stick to Ubuntu 10.04 for now
23:39<tzury>what about mobile devices such as android and blackberry?
23:40<auraka>good choice.....as part of your choice you have free reign to make fun of arch users....feel free to exercise this right at anytime
23:40<auraka>tzury: they support SNI
23:40-!-zack_ [~zack@199.188.193.166] has joined #linode
23:41<bob2>depends on the version
23:41<tzury>teh black out) wikipedia now, thanks bob2
23:41<nehalem>SNI depends on if your users support it. Mobile devices usually suck
23:41<auraka>tzury: http://blog.barracuda.com/pmblog/index.php/2011/10/03/support-for-server-name-indication-sni/
23:42<tzury>auraka+bob2 -- thanks
23:43<auraka>since wikipedia is still blacked out
23:43<tzury>this one show a different picture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication
23:43<zivester>can someone help me debug an ssh "Permission denied (publickey)." im trying to connect from a new client to a server.. im not sure if my client isn't setup right, or if my server isn't setup right... my client has an .ssh/id_rsa.pub file... and my server has an .ssh/authorized_keys file... what am i missing?
23:43<bob2>if only the wikipedia blackout was trivially circumvented
23:43<tzury>run this of curse: $("body").children().toggle()
23:43<pharaun>akerl: depends
23:43<bob2>zivester, on client: ssh-copy-id user@remotehost
23:43<bob2>zivester, done
23:43<pharaun>bb does not support, i pasted a url other night bout it
23:44<pharaun>android prior to ics/honeycomb does not support
23:44<pharaun>iphone does
23:44<auraka>I forget...not everyone has ICS :-/...upgrade people!
23:44<praetorian>could if i could
23:44<praetorian>would
23:45<bob2>auraka, ha ha ha
23:45<auraka>praetorian: you can...
23:45*zivester is an idiot, i wasn't connecting with the right user O_o tx bob
23:45<bob2>you can still buy phones that can't run ICS without hackery at best
23:45<auraka>so...don't buy those...buy ones that do
23:45-!-VladGh [~vladgh@ec2-50-19-236-123.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:45<@mikegrb>lulz
23:45<bob2>lol
23:45<auraka>upgrade!
23:45<praetorian>auraka: i dont want to have to root my phone just to do it
23:45<bob2>tl;dr letting carriers or phone handset manufacturers get involved in software == catastrophe
23:45*pharaun roots praetorian
23:45<praetorian>werd
23:45<praetorian>pharaun: oh baby.
23:46<praetorian>pharaun: feel that arch
23:46<auraka>and now you have an std :-/
23:46<bob2>auraka, how do you deal with the manufacturers who just lie?
23:46<bob2>e.g. galaxy S
23:46<auraka>lie about which part....my galaxy nexus has 4.0...I read up on it...and bought it...problem solved
23:47<@mikegrb>lulz
23:47<bob2>lol
23:47<auraka>oh...you mean carriers like ATT who is calling every phone 4G?
23:47<praetorian>whats an ATT?
23:47<praetorian>:-)
23:47<auraka>tin can and string.....4G!
23:47<bob2>carriers who say/imply they will provide software updates and then don't
23:48<praetorian>do it the apple way. you never know when your phone will be unsupported.
23:48<auraka>oh.......I'm not sure....who is doing that? All of them? Can you pick one that doesn't?
23:48<Heron>pff, apple's pretty consistently stopped caring about phones after 2 years
23:48<mbreslin>auraka: any phone that doesn't start with the word nexus, pretty much
23:48<auraka>praetorian: say what you will but apple's play is much better than androids
23:48<bob2>auraka, this is all pretty complicated for normal people who just want aphone
23:48-!-tzury [~c7cbc781@chat.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:48<mbreslin>you can't depend on any particular timeframe for an ota update from any carrier
23:48<bob2>that isn't /already abandoned by upstream/
23:49<auraka>so...people need to educate themselves before they buy
23:49<bob2>...
23:49<bob2>or, manufactuers and carriers need to be 1000% less fuckwitty
23:49<bob2>and not create a broken market
23:49<auraka>phones are evolving so quickly now kind of like computers back in the day so it isn't much of a suprise the software releases aren't keeping up
23:49<bob2>yes it is
23:49<bob2>it is absolutely unreasonable to be shipping a phone now that can't run ICS
23:50<auraka>also....there is no incentive for handset manufacturers to update your phone...they'll happily sell you a new one
23:50<bob2>and that is a thing that is occurring
23:50<auraka>why is it unreasonable...plenty of people want cheap phones that may not have the best hardware...eg. boost, republicwireless, virgin, etc.
23:51<auraka>these are low margain that may not get the best support....if you don't like it don't buy it....buy a nice shiny iphone for the most part
23:52<@mikegrb>lulz
23:52<bob2>lol
23:52<auraka>if you remember back in the days before iphones many of us had to run winmo phones and upgrading those weren't trivial either
23:53<praetorian>i never had a winmo phone
23:53<praetorian>i valued my user experience.
23:53<StevenK>Neither
23:53<bob2>sure, but only nerd bought them, and they knew how much they'd hate it
23:53<pharaun>never had winmo phone either
23:53<auraka>praetorian: consider yourself lucky
23:53<mbreslin>auraka: the point is there is 1 current generation phone that can be depended on for timely updates
23:53<mbreslin>that's a horrible situation
23:53<auraka>iphone?
23:53<mbreslin>ok fine two.
23:54<auraka>what is the tother...crackberry?
23:54<auraka>other
23:54<mbreslin>the phone you have
23:54<bob2>nexus
23:54<auraka>oh....well we don't know how well windows will do this time around
23:55<pharaun>i used crackberry
23:55<pharaun>it was a dumb phone, sidekick, crackberry, and now iphone
23:55<pharaun>:\
23:56<auraka>i like my nice 4g speeds
23:56<auraka>http://db.tt/pGqTMXip
23:57<bob2>windowsphoneseries7 is already letting carriers fuck up updates
23:57<pharaun>even crackberry allowed carriers to fuck up updates
23:57<mbreslin>i like the tile look on the phones actually but i'd never consider buying one
23:57<pharaun>i had to hack mine to get a newer os on
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23:58<pharaun>imho carriers == data/voice/text plan that's it
23:58<bob2>yes
23:58<bob2>a++
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23:59<linbot>Point (0.72861479, 0.22789706) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 108614 of 137886 (π ≈ 3.150834747545074 - 0.009242093955280). http://π.hoopycat.com/
23:59<pharaun>i mean its nice and all that they offer subsized phone, other/etc but
23:59<pharaun>them being able to muck with the software on the phone is a conflict of interest imho
23:59<auraka>pharaun: AHA...but how are they suppose to load up your phone with apps you can't uninstall....Sprint NASCAR FTW!
23:59<pharaun>its in their interest to get you onto a new shinny phone and a new contract
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 19 00:00:22 2012