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#linode IRC Logs for 2012-01-19

---Logopened Thu Jan 19 00:00:22 2012
00:00<pharaun>auraka: if i ever ran into that, i would on the spot in the fucking store, root the phone right there
00:00<pharaun>and remove it
00:00<auraka>pharaun: same with hardware manufacturers as
00:00<pharaun>auraka: i provide my own harddrive :3
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00:17<nehalem>What do you guys think is a good way to keep 2 webroots in sync, like when nodebalancing 2 websites?
00:17<bob2>your deployment system does that
00:19<warewolf>sorry, that's like replying "Your tape backups do that."
00:19<warewolf>"What backups?"
00:19<auraka>nehalem: rsync?
00:20<nehalem>auraka: thanks, will look into it!
00:22<bob2>how would you get code onto one machine?
00:22<rlankfo>bob2: write in vi?
00:23<ajmitch>bob2: don't you edit code on a production box like the cool kids do?
00:23<nehalem>ajmitch: I do! LOL. I love the adrenaline rush
00:23<bob2>sadly sometimes yes :(
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00:23<avenj>plus you can keep your users on their toes
00:25<pharaun>goddamn texlive update
00:26<bob2>take that, internet connection
00:26<auraka>bob2: load up /b/?
00:27<rlankfo>can linode provide me with any logs of access to my linodes or access via lish?
00:28<pharaun>you should have logs
00:28<rlankfo>pharaun: logs are gone
00:29<bob2>file a ticket
00:29<chesty>file a nail
00:30<warewolf>I don't always test my code.
00:30<warewolf>But when I do, I do it in PRODUCTION.
00:30<warewolf>Stay paniced, my friends.
00:31<warewolf>'lo caker!
00:31<warewolf>PEDANT detected.
00:31<@caker>SYNTAX ERROR ON LINE 10
00:32<warewolf>caker: how gioes life?
00:32<warewolf>how GOES life?
00:32<@caker>taking forever
00:32<warewolf>caker: so I just had this really crazy idea.
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00:33<warewolf>caker: it wouldn't be possible to do VM snapshots of linodes, RAM and all ... would it?
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00:33<pharaun>warewolf: if xen itself supports it, perhaps
00:33<@caker>warewolf: can save to disk, but be don't bother... just reboot it :)
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00:34<warewolf>the only real world use case I can think of is a faked out "instant boot"
00:34<warewolf>e.g. just revert to a just-booted image
00:34<warewolf>that'd play hell with the disk though.
00:34<nehalem>If I set up rync as per and schedule it as a cron job, the fastest it can work is every minute. Any way to have a live mirror? Would be useful in a situation where 2 web heads access a single database and you made an update on the "master"
00:34<param>hello, im trying to connect to mysql, from outside and cant connect, which address would i specify in the connection string?
00:34<bob2>nehalem, where does the data come from
00:35<nehalem>param, is mysql listening on the public IP?
00:35<bob2>param, /usr/share/doc/mysql-server-5.1/README.Debian.gz
00:35<auraka>warewolf: i'd like to see multiple snapshots just charged by GB used
00:35<nehalem>bob2, the idea is to mirror the document root of one web server to another
00:35<param>nehalem how could i check it?
00:35<nehalem>param, which os?
00:35<bob2>param, read the README
00:36<bob2>it explains
00:36<bob2>nehalem, :/
00:36<bob2>nehalem, how does any of the data ever get into the web root
00:36<pharaun>sounds accurate
00:36<auraka>not everyone uses proper code repos
00:37<nehalem>bob2: oh sorry, :-) it will be a cms with modules added via wget for example, or new files uploaded through the site itself
00:37<auraka>some of us are reckless and say "f**k it, we'll do it live"
00:37<pharaun>nehalem: ಠ_ಠ
00:38<bob2>you should definitely listen to bill o'reilly when designing your prod deployment system
00:38<warewolf>so yeah, linode snapshots. AFAIK it's crazy talk.
00:38<pharaun><3 xmonad
00:38<nehalem>bob2, feel free to point me to some information if you would be kind enough
00:38<auraka>who says you can't use can always edit on test/dev and rsync over ssh to prod nodes but *shrug*
00:39<pharaun>he should have a proper vcs in the first place :)
00:39<@mikegrb>mmm cake
00:39<auraka>warewolf: you just need convince caker....I would suggest...well...cake
00:39<pharaun>and all other proper deployment
00:39<nehalem>BTW, this mirroring is to ensure the webheads have the same docroot for use in loadbalancing
00:40<warewolf>oh no, absolutely not. Like I said, it's a crazy idea. It just clicked with me that /technically/ it may be possible.
00:40<warewolf>Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's a good idea.
00:40<auraka>a.k.a arch
00:41<pharaun>warewolf: it is possible and useful - re vmware-workstation
00:41<pharaun>for backward/forward debugging stepping
00:41<warewolf>nehalem: best idea is to have a shared filesystem between the two web servers.
00:41<auraka>or...just vmware in general...
00:41<@caker>nothing like resuming a saved Linux box that suddenly has to deal with time warping into the future
00:41<warewolf>pharaun: right, I do that at work/home.
00:41<pharaun>yeah but for servers :\
00:41<pharaun>i wouldn't recommend it :)
00:41<auraka>caker: people do it quite often with vmware quite well
00:41<@caker>scary :)
00:41*auraka shrug
00:42<warewolf>*nod* I can't think up with a real world use case beyond "instant boot"
00:42<auraka>haven't seen issues with it yet
00:42<pharaun>and reboots are nice that it regularly tests and refreshes your kernel and bootup code
00:42*pharaun hands auraka a "works on my machine badge"
00:43<auraka>I'm not sure regular xen can even do it though.....xenserver can I believe...but can opensource xen?
00:43<pharaun>never looked into it myself
00:43<pharaun>so i dunno
00:43<auraka>pharaun: actually cluster.......64 server cluster....but *shrug*
00:43*ajmitch thinks linode should offer a chaos monkey service & randomly kill off linodes
00:44<warewolf>they uh .. do.
00:44<pharaun>auraka: ok then, s/my machine/for me/ :)
00:44<warewolf>it's called the API.
00:44<warewolf>just poke it with a big enough stick.
00:45<pharaun>auraka: anyway 64 server cluster?
00:45<warewolf>wom wom wom wom wom
00:45<pharaun>p p p p p
00:45<auraka>I worked for a large "cloud" provider ...lots of fun
00:46<nehalem>warewolf: you mean like nfs? doesn't that introduce a single point of failure, as opposed to rsync?
00:46<auraka>not cool enough for linode
00:46*caker was cloud before cloud was cloud
00:46<warewolf>nehalem: obviously you've never set up clustered NFS before. :)
00:47<warewolf>also, if you're going all out SPoF prevention, you need multipath disks in a SAN or something.
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00:47<nehalem>warewolf: nope, but this is still a small deployment. with 3 linodes (2 web head, 1 db) and a nodebalancer
00:47<auraka>caker: I think you need to move to cloud 2.0....I think we call it mist.....
00:48*warewolf busts out his MYST ballcap
00:48<param>so in my.conf should i set bind address to my linode's ip?
00:48<nehalem>param: yes
00:48<auraka>or fog......where we bridge the cloud and the traditional data center to where no one can tell the people
00:48<nehalem>warewolf: I guess I read up on nfs clustering then :-)
00:49<warewolf>nehalem: depends on what level of high availability you want.
00:49<warewolf>nehalem: you could go a little crazy with a bunch of linodes in a cluster
00:49<auraka>%99.999999 on my $20/month linode please
00:50<warewolf>nehalem: DISK linode that exports it's disk as iSCSI luns to your web servers
00:50<@caker>it's = it is
00:50*caker runs
00:50<warewolf>nehalem: webservers run clustered LVM and GFS for shared concurrent access to the same filewsystem
00:50<@caker>or you can just deploy the files when changes are made.
00:51*warewolf starts intentionaliy inserting tyops to bugger caker
00:51<ajmitch>warewolf: going to setup a system to automate that?
00:51<warewolf>oh I've been on a cluster kick lately. So I know how cool clusters can be, and how much of a cluster !@#$ a cluster is.
00:51<auraka>warewolf: ask him how come rackspace is a cloud and linode is just a vps
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00:52<warewolf>who what now?
00:52<@caker>auraka: billing method, clearly!
00:52<warewolf>you said something in comparison to linode I don't recognize
00:52<warewolf>is there something besides linode?
00:52<pharaun>auraka: ahh i see
00:52<linbot>I'm leaving Linode for the cloud!
00:52<warewolf>SNYTAX ERROR AT rackspace
00:52<auraka>caker: obviously....
00:53<auraka>I think linode should take it to the next with webscale
00:53<warewolf>I don't like clouds.
00:53<warewolf>clouds remind me of farts.
00:53<nehalem>warewolf: :s :) just when I thought I knew a lot. Thanks for the pointers in the right direction
00:54<param>nehalem, still cant connect, i checked /etc/hosts.allow and everything is commented out, do i need to add an entry there?
00:54<warewolf>nehalem: like I said it depends on how crazy you want to go on high availability.
00:54<warewolf>nehalem: I was doing this cluster stuff with 4 VMs at home running fedora 16
00:54<nehalem>param: you restarted after making the changes right?
00:54<auraka>and how many single points of failure you want to create...
00:54<nehalem>param: restarted mysql
00:55<warewolf>nehalem: iscsi + clvm + gfs + libvirt -- the goal was to be able to do live migration of a VM across the nework
00:55<warewolf>nehalem: oh, you can have clustered mysql too.
00:55<auraka>warewolf: stop
00:55*warewolf saw that in the redhat cluster stuff
00:55<warewolf>auraka: I'm a geek, I can't help it.
00:56<nehalem>X_X warewolf you have quite a few years over me :-)
00:56<auraka>warewolf: obviously you just ned to install on the cloud....infinite resources and availability
00:56<warewolf>nehalem: for the record I was mildly joking on the clustered NFS stuff.
00:57<warewolf>nehalem: if you want to deploy code to two systems at once at the same time, one underlying filesystem is a simple way to go (NFS)
00:58<warewolf>nehalem: but you should be able to deploy your web doc root w/ rsync or some other kind of "push" system too.
00:58<auraka>which gives you a nice SPOF...vs just deploying the code twice
00:58<nehalem>warewolf: got it
00:58<warewolf>nehalem: were I in your shoes doing stuff behind a balancer, I'd find a way to remove one node from the balancer (so you can push code to it), and then test it without affecting your client base.
00:59<warewolf>nehalem: then when you see your code works in production, flip the two load balanced nodes
00:59<warewolf>nehalem: then push code to the second one.
00:59<warewolf>(note: I don't know anything about linode's node balancers)
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01:00<nehalem>warewolf: you know that makes perfect sense, at least that way you can ensure everything is working fine before mirroring it on the other
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01:00*warewolf has done exactly that at big companies before
01:00<param>nehalem, sorry for stupid question, when i issue /etc/init.d/mysql Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost'
01:00<nehalem>warewolf: the only small disadvantage is a bit of time to login to the manager and take out one webhead from the nodebalancer
01:01<param>nehalem, sorry for stupid question, when i issue /etc/init.d/mysql restart i get Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost'
01:01<warewolf>nehalem: you might be able to automate that through the API? not sure
01:01<nehalem>param: *confused* try "service mysql restart" (without the quotes) and tell me what you get
01:03<param>mysql start/running, process 4318
01:04<nehalem>param: you should be able to connect from outside now, unless you did something else to your firewall
01:04<param> didnt restart yet
01:04<param>when i tried it tells me i dont have enough permissions
01:04<nehalem>param: didnt it? where/how did you get "mysql start/running, process 4318" then?
01:06<param>when i issue "service mysql restart" it restarted it?
01:06<nehalem>param: yes, hence the message
01:07<param>ok, this is my connect string is it correct: mysql_connect('', 'root', 'root22')
01:07<param>like i still get an error unable to connect
01:07<auraka>i hope that isn't your real database password
01:08<nehalem>param: mysql_connect('', 'root', 'root22') will do
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01:08<nehalem>i hope its not his username either
01:08<nehalem>mighty powerful php script he would have
01:09<nehalem>param: do a netstat -anltp and tell me
01:10<nehalem>warewolf: epic solution --> take node2 from pool via api, push new code to node1, test that its working on node1, rsync to node2, put node2 back into pool via api
01:10<nehalem>warewolf: since they both use the same db, node2 will work too
01:11<param>nehalem i got this error: Host '' is not allowed to connect to this MySQL server
01:11<param>where would i set ALL hosts to be able to connect?>
01:11<warewolf>param: you need to read the mysql documentation
01:11<warewolf>EGAD NO DON'T DO THAT
01:11<warewolf>param: go to and find where it talks about the GRANT command.
01:12<StevenK>You're going to talk to your MySQL server over the Internet?
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01:12<StevenK>As root, too.
01:12<warewolf>param: please don't make every host on the internet permit everything to talk to your mysql server.
01:12<warewolf>please don't let every host on the internet talk to your mysql server.
01:12<param>i just wanna test it first
01:12<warewolf>and I just want to hack your server first.
01:12<warewolf>please don't let me [or anyone else]
01:13<StevenK>param: Then test it from the Linode itself?
01:13<warewolf>param: to give you an idea of why it is a bad idea - the root user when logged into mysql can load new commands into mysql.
01:13<nehalem>param: you mysql should be listening properly now on the public IP, any other problems should be the mysql server's permissions itself. Look up grants in mysql as warewolf suggested
01:14<warewolf>param: basically they can upload a program. That program could format your hard drive. Or steal all your data.
01:16<warewolf>read that page
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01:20<nehalem>Thanks as always guys. Its 1:20am where I am.
01:20*warewolf -c sleep &
01:21<pharaun>warewolf: eternal sleep?
01:23<nehalem>kill %1
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01:25<desperate>is this linode channel?
01:25<desperate>my server just went down
01:25<desperate>how to join linode?
01:25<desperate>join #linode
01:25<desperate>is not working
01:25<bob2>desperate, did you turn down MaxClients?
01:25<desperate>what is that, am I on linode?
01:25<pharaun>desperate: apache i assume
01:26<desperate>apache and ubuntu
01:26<pharaun>desperate: turn down maxclient plz
01:26<desperate>oh how to do that?
01:26<pharaun>desperate: exit the apache config
01:26<pharaun>there's stuff in linode library for that actually
01:26<pharaun>!library apache ubuntu
01:26<linbot>pharaun: 1. Basic Apache Installation - | 2. Ruby on Rails with Apache on Debian 6 (Squeeze) - | 3. Install the Apache 2 Web Server on Debian 6 (Squeeze) -
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01:27<pharaun>#1 is probably what you want
01:27<desperate>ok trying to check out
01:27<pharaun>desperate: anyway look for max client in that file, edit it down
01:28<desperate>how much lower
01:28<pharaun>hella lower
01:28<pharaun>4 or so is my guess, kill keepalive too
01:28<pharaun>mod_php i assume
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01:33<pharaun>man compiling ghc is balls slow :(
01:33<pharaun>forgot how slow it was
01:34<desperate>maxclients does not appear on documentation you sent
01:34<desperate>i have edited it and set it from 150 to 4
01:34<desperate>i am now realoading
01:34<pharaun>desperate: go ahead and toss a note or something for those docs
01:34<pharaun>but again its a system/installation custom value
01:34<pharaun>so you'll need to tweak it
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01:35<desperate>ok hmm
01:35<desperate>service apache2 reload
01:35<desperate>my mysql process peeked
01:35<desperate>nwo i don't know i hope it works
01:35<pharaun>linode 512 i assume
01:35<pharaun>hit that mysql with small memory config
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01:36<pharaun>oh nice $279 for 3x8gb modules,
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01:45<desperate>how to hit that mysql with small memory config
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01:48<pharaun>!library mysql small memory
01:48<linbot>pharaun: 1. Use MySQL Relational Databases on Arch Linux - | 2. Use MySQL Relational Databases on Fedora 13 - | 3. Use MySQL Relational Databases on Fedora 12 -
01:56<desperate>apache starts up lots of times
01:56<desperate>when i kill mysqld and apache services it runs fine
01:56<desperate>what makes you think mysql is the problem?
01:56<desperate>any help is appreciated
01:57<desperate>i am in 512
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02:08<desperate>things look normal now
02:08<desperate>i will monitor
02:08<desperate>thanks pharao
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02:09<pharaun>oh he left
02:13*EugeneKay yawns
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02:37<dand>I have two linodes
02:37<dand>one of them is not responding to pings from the other
02:37<dand>but when I'm trying from any other server it works
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02:47<retro|blah>dand: Need some more details. What IP are you pinging from and what IP are you sending the pings to?
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02:51<dand>retro|blah: when I'm trying: "dig +trace" it works
02:51<linbot>Please don't redact or change things when you pastebin your configs. It's a lot easier for us to debug if we're seeing the same thing you are.
02:52<pharaun>this is an support channel you know
03:00<pharaun>sure went quiet
03:00<linbot>You spin me right round baby, right round, like a record baby, right round round round!
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04:42<KIngsy>Alright guys..
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04:48<KIngsy>swaj: you around m8?
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04:52<KIngsy>does anyone know what the directive is in a virtualhost to enable debugging in logs?
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04:53<Takyoji>Could try on #httpd on Freenode
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04:55<KIngsy>yeah np
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04:58<assaf>any reason why ssh sessions to one of my ubuntu instances should terminate after 2-3 minutes? I use putty as the client..
04:58<assaf>the server itself looks healthy. not very busy..
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05:00<kyhwana>your router might cose that shit
05:00<@Praefectus>or the NOOP in putty is disabled
05:01<assaf>then I need to see if it happens to other servers... I'll have an answer in a few minutes
05:03<kyhwana>chekc your firewalls on each sides, etc
05:03<kyhwana>had some guy go "durp" because he came in and had a firewall on one side
05:04<assaf>started two sessions with two servers.
05:04<assaf>one is still going
05:04<assaf>the other just disconnected after about 2 minutes
05:05<assaf>putty logs say Network error: Software caused connection abort
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05:05*Praefectus is tellin you it's your putty NOOP setting
05:05<EugeneKay>That's what happens when putty times out.
05:05<EugeneKay>Set it to send keepalives, helps with crappy connections
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05:06<EugeneKay>(well, realizing it's crappy. The session will still die, but at least it does it quicker so you cn restart the thing)
05:06<assaf>roger. doing that. thanks guys
05:07<EugeneKay>About the only thing you can do to fix the underlying issue is to get a less crap internet connection. Tweaking the timeout settings helps some, but a dropped TCP session is a dropped TCP session.
05:07<Per-Aa>anyone else perhaps had problem on the Ubuntu linodes with motd overwriting ?
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05:13<Per-Aa>where is the motd.d ?
05:14<Per-Aa>i was looking for as something is overwriting the motd all the time
05:20<chesty>grep -r motd /etc
05:20<chesty>i don't have a motd.d
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05:21<Per-Aa>same hete
05:21<Per-Aa>just motd
05:21<Per-Aa>and it's getting overwritten from somewhere
05:22<chesty>what did grep say?
05:23<Per-Aa>grep: /etc/ No such file or directory
05:23<Per-Aa>grep: /etc/fonts/conf.d/30-defoma.conf: No such file or directory
05:23<Per-Aa>ok the update-motd.d i installed but uninstalled later
05:23<Per-Aa>ouch, no pasting like this
05:25<chesty>/etc/default/rcS:# Set EDITMOTD to "no" if you don't want /etc/motd to be editted automatically
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05:32<Per-Aa>k, thanks
05:32<Per-Aa>that helped
05:33<Per-Aa>stupid thing but was looking for it since 5 hours :P
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05:34<chesty>I don't know if that will do the trick, but it's the first line to print from grep -r motd /etc
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05:49<kyhwana>epic fail
05:50<kyhwana> vs
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05:54<Kingsy>can someone help me tweak my setup for fastcgi php-fpm? I am getting errors all over the place when I am trying to do stuff.. timeouts.. Zlib: Compressed 620 to 379 errors whatever that is
05:55<Kingsy>FastCGI: incomplete headers (0 bytes) received from server <-- whatever that is
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06:02<Kingsy>its just annoying as hell.
06:03<Kingsy>haha I am restarting apache every 2 minutes
06:05<Kingsy>can someone tell me what Zlib: Compressed 620 to 379 means? its pointing to mod_deflate and its totally crashed my server I just get that over and over
06:06<Kingsy>I can paste the exact error if someone is around?
06:11<MaZ->dont ask to ask, just ask
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06:16<Kingsy>actually I think php was timing out.. that mod_deflate was what it was doing when it crashed out
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06:45<MaZ->apache fastcgi setup is a ballache anyway
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06:52<Kingsy>seems to be running ok now actually
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08:20<praetorian>o_O perl meetings at the linode office
08:21<praetorian>scary :>
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08:22<swaj>sometimes when I imagine Linode's architecture, I just see a giant blob of cold fusion and perl :P
08:23-!-mariusz [] has joined #linode
08:23<swaj>but then, jed worked for them, so there's gotta be some python :P
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08:23<praetorian>oh look at that, eric OC is involved ;p
08:25<praetorian>nod, boring site tho
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08:35<JediMaster>hi all, is there any way you can configure multiple network interfaces with ips on the same network (public, internet facing)?
08:36<JediMaster>as in on eth0, eth1, eth2 instead of eth0:0/1 etc.
08:37<JediMaster>I just can't get my head around the routing for that as each interface would need a gateway setup
08:37<rnowak>you only have one interface on a linode
08:37<JediMaster>not on linode =)
08:37<JediMaster>at least not this particular machine
08:37<JediMaster>it's *shudder* on a win 2k8r2 hyper-v host
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08:38<JediMaster>and for some reason, aliased eth0:0 type interfaces don't work
08:38<@irgeek>If you have multiple interfaces connected to the same network, Linux does weird things.
08:38<JediMaster>yeah I know =(
08:38<swaj>aliasing is the way to go
08:38<JediMaster>not when it doesn't work lol
08:38<swaj>what doesn't work?
08:38<JediMaster>hyper-v sucks
08:38<@irgeek>You'll receive ARP requests on both interfaces but Linux only answers on one interface.
08:39<swaj>hyper-v is fine. probably PEBKAC
08:39<@irgeek>And it may not be the one you expect.
08:39<JediMaster>swaj: I can ping the ips internally, but not externally, however it works when using the hyper-v legacy network adaptor
08:39<JediMaster>swaj: trouble is, I'm getting 5,000ms pings to for instance, which normally gets 4ms
08:40<@irgeek>Also, you should really only have one gateway.
08:40<JediMaster>yeah, I'd rather do this through aliases
08:40<@irgeek>Having multiple gateways makes strange things happen.
08:40<JediMaster>sorry this is very off-topic btw
08:41<JediMaster>I can see the ips in "ip -d addr" (ubuntu seems to hide the aliased adaptors from ifconfig now)
08:42<JediMaster>I can ping them internally from that machine, as you would expect, but only the main ip of eth0 is visible externally
08:42<JediMaster>and using the legacy adaptor on hyper-v makes them all visible =/
08:42<JediMaster>but really slow
08:46<swaj>funny, ksplice was bought by oracle and now they only support "Oracle Linux" it appears
08:47<swaj>Oracle is such a terrible organization.
08:47<swaj>on the server at least
08:47<rnowak>the death of lunix stuff
08:48<swaj>"Oh hey, all those years you had with no-reboot updates? Now you have to use our shit distro to get them. Haha fuck you all!" -Oracle
08:49-!-michael_mbp [~michael_m@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:49<rnowak>"We're proud to announce the availability of MySQL 6.0. Which btw now only runs on Oracle Lunix. Bend over and like it." (:
08:49-!-sivy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:50<rnowak>wtf is Oracle Linux anyway
08:50-!-cwillu_at_work [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:51<swaj>RHEL with Oracle's herpes
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08:52<rnowak>Oracle's Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel for Linux
08:52<rnowak>a mouthful
08:53-!-Neok [] has joined #linode
08:53<rnowak>"The Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel is now the only Linux kernel Oracle recommends for use with not only Oracle software for all enterprise applications running on Linux"
08:54<swaj>"We're Oracle. We buy profitable companies that make valuable contributions to open source and squash their entire business models into dust, get rid of all the talented people that work for them, and think of new, inventive ways to fuck over their customers."
08:55<swaj>caker: When will there be an official Oracle Linux image for Linode? I want one, NAOW!
08:55<Neok>HI All - I'm trying to decide what the best way to do this is: i've got SSH / SFTP running on port 22, and port 22 itself is locked down via IPTables to specific static IP addresses. I now need to deal with a user who hasn't got a static IP (and dyndns isn't an option) - any wonderful tricks to get around this? or just bite the bullet and open up 22 on the firewall?
08:56<EugeneKay>Something that nobody seems competent enough to comprehend is that $COMMERCIALBACKEDPROJECT which was bought(and raped) by Oracle has spawned $FOSSFORK which is rather good.
08:56<rnowak> if you're paranoid, Neok
08:56<swaj>EugeneKay: oh really? How about ksplice?
08:57<EugeneKay>Wikipedia says the community has yet to fork, but they're working on it.
08:57<Katana>they're doing it in valve time
08:57<swaj>how about java? don't tell me openJDK, because that's "lawl"
08:57<EugeneKay>Java was a joke to begin with ;-)
08:58<swaj>The only company I can see that did the LOLFORK move and made something good is MySQL -> MariaDB thing
08:58<Neok>@mowak - interesting; don't have any spare boxes to put on the front though
08:58<EugeneKay>I'm still waiting for MariaDB packages to show up in EPEL or RPMforge
08:58<rnowak>Neok: you don't have to? and it is R N owak
08:59<swaj>Neok: SSH is ... pretty fscking tough. Just use fail2ban (or denyhosts or something similar) and open it up :P
08:59<Neok>@rnowak - sorry, crappy font: will read up on it - ta!
08:59<@akerl><3 fwknop
08:59<rnowak>Neok: You can install this on the box you want to "protect". The port will be closed off until you send a single cryptographically signed packet which will then open the port for you for a lil while
09:00<Katana>hi mowak
09:00<Katana>or should we say
09:00<Neok>rnowak: I'm dealing with a bit of a 'user' on the other end - I fear unless it's built into the config of his (s)FTP client, it's not gonna work
09:01<EugeneKay>Neok - intelligent iptables abuse will let you limit the number of "new" TCP connections to :22 per-minute
09:01<rnowak>Neok: yeah, this requires a spearate client that triggers it first
09:01<rnowak>separate too
09:01<EugeneKay>Combine with SSHguard, and huzzah
09:01<@akerl>Neok: Are they paying you?
09:01<Neok>So in sum, I should read up on SSHguard, fail2Ban and fwknop
09:02<Neok>akerl: well, it's a production box, but it's for friends of friends etc
09:02<rnowak>fwknop is pretty bulletproof in the sense that it adds a layer of security which would be very hard to exploit, so if you can do it and you're paranoid, it is pretty darn good
09:02<Cromulent>Neok: you could just disable password logins and then rate limit port 22
09:02<EugeneKay>fail2ban doesn't speak IPv6; if sshguard is available for your distro use it instead
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09:03<@akerl>Or just use strong passwords and rate limit 22
09:03<EugeneKay>fwknop appears to be in the "nutcase paranoia" section, but hey, defense in depth and all that.
09:03<Neok>SSHgaurd is on centos yum so that might be an option
09:03<rnowak>centos, my condolences
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09:03<EugeneKay>It is? What repo?
09:03<Neok>Secretly, I like centos
09:04<@akerl>Also, google 2 factor auth is <3, and anyone with an iphone/android/blackberry has a token
09:04<swaj>EugeneKay: lol aren't you the one that recommended encrypting traffic on Linode's private VLAN with OpenVPN between a user's webserver and database server?
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09:04<dzho>Neok: please say more
09:04<EugeneKay>swaj - yurp. But port-knocking is a PITA on Windows.
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09:04<rnowak>it isn't port knocking, just saying
09:04<@akerl>EugeneKay: That's why I don't use windows
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09:04<rnowak>and the python client works just fine on windows for fwknop
09:05<@akerl>rnowak: It can be. fwknop supports traditional knocking or GPG knocks
09:05<Neok>EugeneKay: ?
09:05<rnowak>akerl: sure, but if you use it in that mode, you're doing it wrong
09:05<@akerl>rnowak: Fair enough :)
09:05<@akerl>I just wish there was an iphone client to send GPG kocks
09:05<EugeneKay>Ew, EL5.
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09:06<Katana>akerl: nice freudian slip
09:06<EugeneKay>I should re-teach myself how to build modern RPMs.
09:06<rnowak>this single packet authorization feels less like a hack and security through obscurity than port knocking
09:07<Katana>rnowak: that python client..
09:07<rnowak>Katana: it is in the main source repo, sec
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09:08<rnowak>akerl: there's an iphone client too
09:08*Katana digs around
09:09<@akerl>For GPG knocking?
09:09-!-joar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:09<rnowak>just look in the source download
09:09<rnowak>fwknop-2.0.tar.gz has it
09:09<Katana>oh, inside the download eh?
09:10<@akerl>So it's just a command line tool?
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09:10<Katana>I would've thought it would be packaged separately. huh.
09:11<rnowak>akerl: the normal client si, this iphone one is a goooey from what I can see
09:11<swaj>to be, sshguard seems to be a silly, needless piece of software that does what iptables can already do.
09:11<rnowak>it is drawing windows
09:11<@akerl>Ah, I see
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09:11<swaj>or even fail2ban
09:12<Katana>last i knew iptables didn't ban after X failed attempts
09:12<swaj>it can rate limit
09:12<Katana>oh sure, slow brute force then.
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09:12<EugeneKay>iptables does dumb rate limiting. sshguard/fail2ban trigger only on failed attempts, and can do things like fire off an abuse@ email
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09:13<Katana>ssh spec needs to be modified for two-factor throttling
09:13<Katana> <- IT MUST HAPPEN
09:13<Neok>I think fail2ban might be the simplest option - would people recommend moving SSH off port 22?
09:13<@akerl>Meh. If an attacker is already far enough past my security to fail ssh auth, I lose
09:13<@akerl>Neok: That's silly
09:14<rnowak>akerl: haha, fort knox eh :D
09:14<Katana>akerl: i mean like if you fail thrice or so :P
09:14<@akerl>Katana: What do you mean?
09:14<rnowak>that would be an sshd implementation, nothing to do with the ssh spec
09:14<Katana>screwed up your gmail account login several times in a row anytime in the last few years
09:14<Katana>rnowak: i meant it mostly as a joke :P
09:15<EugeneKay>Katana - something something PAM :v
09:15<@akerl>Not relevant. I auth with sshd using keys. I occasionally fail an auth after that, but I have 5 tries before the account locks out
09:15<Katana>akerl: "We think you're either too stupid to use a computer or a bot. Here's a puzzling series of characters that nobody can figure out. Good luck."
09:15<@akerl>My point is that if someone has stolen my GPG key, beaten me until I reveal the passphrase, stolen my ssh key, and is now attacking my server, I already lose
09:15<rnowak>akerl: you get thrown into a custom shell?
09:15<Katana>next five minutes
09:16<Katana>"Is that a G or an S...?"
09:16<@akerl>rnowak: SSH ForceCommand /bin/login
09:16<Katana>^ EVERY CAPTCHA. EVER.
09:16<rnowak>akerl: ah ok
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09:17<@akerl>I auth using keys with sshd, then force /bin/login, where I auth for my admin user/pass/google2factor
09:17*akerl may be paranoid
09:17*rnowak social engineering in action
09:17<rnowak>tell us more
09:17<swaj>don't forget he uses port knocking too :P
09:17<swaj>he's only a little paranoid
09:17<@akerl>rnowak: My security doesn't depend on obscurity
09:18<rnowak>akerl: it depends on this 5 dollar wrench, I know where you live son
09:18<rnowak>ok, I don't :(
09:18<swaj>akerl: somebody tried to bribe heckman to replace your arch boxes with gentoo yesterday :P
09:19<@akerl>swaj: That's the only part of my security I haven't implemented yet. An alert that emails me when a new Linode Manager job kicks off
09:19<@akerl>I've already disabled LISH
09:20<rnowak>do you get emailed whenever someone logs in?
09:20<Katana>someone just needs to find out the host he's on and clone the HDD. :)
09:20<@akerl>To the Linode? nope
09:21<rnowak>physical access is ultimate access, Katana, irrelevant ;p
09:21<Katana>akerl: encrypted /home/ ?
09:21<@akerl>Katana: Useless for an always on box
09:21<Katana>akerl: full filesystem yes, for /home/ no
09:21<Katana>unless you serve out of /home/
09:21<@akerl>The only thing in home is my random vim scribbles
09:22<rnowak>my home is full of downloaded shit that I cba to delete (:
09:23<swaj>akerl: any relation to caker?
09:23<rnowak>I'mma compile this android fwknop
09:23<@akerl>swaj: nop
09:24<Katana>my irc bot's stored in its own /home/, sooo...what all does that leave me.
09:24<Katana>hm. just my html userdir.
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09:24<Alan>what's wrong with serving from /home? :/
09:24<Katana>Alan: /srv/
09:24<Alan>all my sites are in /home/<user>/www/<domainname>
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09:24*Katana associates /home/ with logged-in accounts
09:25<rnowak>this android client integrates with connectbot
09:25<swaj> oh lord
09:25<@akerl>There isn't anything "wrong" with it, but I prefer /srv/
09:26<Katana>serve out of /srv/, live in /home/
09:26<Alan>I can see the merits of /srv when there is only really one site owner
09:26<Alan>but with several users, I find it easier for people to have their sites under their home directory
09:26<Alan>rather than screw around with permissions in /srv/ subdirectories
09:26<@akerl>Alan: You can create directories in srv. What happens if a site changes ownership?
09:26<rnowak>you're letting users manage their own sites, you've already lost
09:27<Katana>unless you're using suexec and chroots when serving
09:27<Katana>that's high risk
09:27<rnowak>and pray every single day
09:27<Alan>I'm always executing as the user that owns the site
09:27<Alan>the only thing they can do is trash their own sites
09:27<EugeneKay>Use ALL of the security methods!
09:27<Alan>that being said, i only have myself + 2 users
09:28<swaj>suexec, lawl
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09:28<Katana>Alan: find web app filecache dir, write nasty script, exec remotely, watch other sites burn
09:28<Alan>I'm not using suexec - nginx + fastcgi processes
09:28<Katana>suddenly entire box compromised
09:29<EugeneKay>This is why you use VPSes to begin with - to avoid chroot lulz
09:29<EugeneKay>(Or because it's cheaper than renting a dedi.... but that's not the point of this debate, right?)
09:29<swaj>for me the cost is only part of it
09:29<swaj>it's also more resilient
09:30<Katana>virtualize the vps's!
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09:30<Katana>recursive VMs!
09:30<Katana>i want to see this happen one day
09:30<swaj>it's already possible...
09:30<Katana>a recursive v--what
09:30<rnowak> I first saw it yesterday, tjfontaine mentioned it
09:31<Nivex>Yo dawg, I heard you like VMs...
09:31<swaj>yeah that's one way
09:31<swaj>I think VMWare can do it too
09:32<rnowak>that's pretty badass
09:32<EugeneKay>OpenVZ on Xen on Vbox on KVM on ESXi on Workstation on Fusion
09:33<EugeneKay>Or Hyper-V, if you're feeling masochistic.
09:33<rnowak>would xen on vbox fly?
09:33<Katana>and somewhere in there toss in Windows Virtual PC if you're feeling VERY masochistic
09:33<EugeneKay>Katana - hyper-v is worse.
09:33<Katana>i wonder how much ram that would eat
09:34<Katana>say it's just a small *nix vm, 100mb ram base at the very bottom
09:34<Katana>probably what, several gig at the top of the stack?
09:34<swaj>you can run Xen inside VirtualBox, but you'll only be able to use PV (for obvious reasons) -- no HVM.
09:35<EugeneKay>I suspect that around the KVM layer it will start to barf
09:35<Katana>swaj: can't you enable hardware access in Vbox though for it?
09:35<EugeneKay>I suppose you can also chroot two or three times inside of OpenVZ
09:35<swaj>I don't think that exposes it though
09:35<swaj>to the hypervisr
09:35<rnowak>vbox apparently has issues running on xen
09:35<EugeneKay>That's why Xen is running on vbox
09:35<swaj>I'm talking about xen inside vbox
09:36<rnowak>si, was a side note
09:36<EugeneKay>I'm tempted to give it a go on my desktop. I have MSDN licenses for Hyper-V, and Workstation/ESXi....
09:36<swaj>if vbox could somehow passthrough VT-x to guest, you could do HVM...
09:36<swaj>Hyper-V is free :)
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09:37<EugeneKay>Server 2008 R2 ain't
09:37<swaj>hyper-v 2008 r2 is free, 100%
09:37<rnowak>vbox faster than xen, hue hue (:
09:37<swaj>you can install it standalone
09:37<EugeneKay>Yeah, but you gotta run something ON it.
09:37<EugeneKay>In order to do Workstation
09:37<swaj>for a guest OS, sure
09:38<swaj>but the host Hyper-V is a "Core" install
09:38<swaj>no server 2008 license required
09:38<rnowak>server-cloud, they had me at cloud
09:39<swaj>download ISO, boot, install
09:39<swaj>no license keys needed
09:39<EugeneKay><EugeneKay> Yeah, but you gotta run something ON it.
09:39<swaj>when it loads, you get a very minimal GUI
09:39<swaj>with a command prompt
09:39<swaj>run a linux guest :)
09:40<EugeneKay>That wouldn't be as funny
09:40<EugeneKay>And by funny I mean painful
09:40<rnowak>does it really nom that much RAM?
09:41<swaj>how much do you think Linode leaves for dom0?
09:41<swaj>I bet at least a couple gigs
09:41<EugeneKay>They're running 40 512MB nodes on 24GB hosts(so says my math), leaving 4GB for dom0 and Extras.
09:41<rnowak>1-2GB I'd guess, presuming the machines have 24GB in them, it'd leave 2-3GB for extras
09:42<rnowak>my xeno host worked fine with 512MB for dom0, but it now gets 1GB
09:43<EugeneKay>Hrm. Do I want Fine or Ultra-Fine tipped 8-color sharpie set?
09:44<auraka>your host hates foreigners?
09:44<auraka>EugeneKay: damn fine
09:44<EugeneKay>Amazon doesn't sell any of those
09:45<auraka>damn shame
09:45<EugeneKay> vs
09:45<rnowak>don't they have 8 pack of black?
09:46<EugeneKay>I have a 12-pack box of both varieties in my cart already
09:46<rnowak>hmm, the fine doesn't look very fine oO
09:46<EugeneKay>Fine is the "standard" size
09:47<rnowak>are they for writing or filling in things with color?
09:47<rnowak>the ultra ones might be a pita for the latter
09:47<EugeneKay>Notes / CD labelling
09:48<EugeneKay>I'm tempted to buy both varieties and have a stationery orgy with a pile of post-its
09:48<rnowak>I need that, damn people always need to borrow a pen
09:48<EugeneKay>I use Pilot G2s. $1 a pen. :-/
09:49<rnowak>I use those too, and pilot vball
09:49<EugeneKay>Interesting that the Black ones are $7
09:49<rnowak>I've got a pretty silver pilot g2 limited <3
09:50<rnowak>what is it about pens man, I don't write much, but I gotta have a million of them
09:52<EugeneKay>I take a surprising quantity of ntoes on stuff. I have a whole stack of pads here, full of random tech crap
09:52<EugeneKay>I don't ever go back and review any of it, but the process of writing it down helps with the memorization
09:52<rnowak>you need one of these
09:53<EugeneKay>You need the greasemoinkey shortlinker script :-p
09:53<EugeneKay>Actually, that's the old, broken one. This is the one I use:
09:54<EugeneKay>Or is it
09:54<EugeneKay>51300 is the one I use. Not sure why 106252 is in my history as well, but I remember it not working.
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11:28<gerryvdm>is there any way to backup and restore a ssh fingerprint?
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11:29<hawk>I think you'll have to elaborate. What exactly do you want to back up?
11:30<Alan>gerryvdm: if you mean you want to keep the SSH server's key the same, the keys are in /etc/ssh/
11:30<Alan>if you mean you want to keep the list of hosts your client trusts, you're probably looking for ~/.ssh/known_hosts
11:30<gerryvdm>i'm not sure exactly, the thing the client will store in known_hosts when connecting the first time
11:31<gerryvdm>to avoid ssh failing if you migrate the server to another machine for example
11:31<Alan>gerryvdm: the fingerprint is a property of the server key
11:31<gerryvdm>oh, so those are the key files mentioned in sshd_config then?
11:31<Alan>that being said, the SSH client will check the IP address and/or hostname, so it might still barf
11:31<gerryvdm>ah ok
11:32<gerryvdm>but that would work then if you just reinstall the machine and restore the key files
11:32<hawk>yeah, the ~/.ssh/known_hosts contains a list of host+key fingerprint combinations that you have "accepted"
11:32<Alan>gerryvdm: exactly
11:32<EugeneKay>Yes, /etc/ssh/ssh_host_blah
11:33<gerryvdm>thx all
11:33<EugeneKay>The default ssh_host_rsa_key is 2048bit; I always regenerate it out to 4096
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11:33<@akerl>EugeneKay: Why?
11:33<EugeneKay>Because moar is better
11:33<Alan>MOAR BITS!
11:34<EugeneKay>No real reason, but it's the same reason I use SHA512 instead of SHA1 on my PKI, and 4096 client keys: crypto-busting is getting easier every day.
11:35<linbot>New news from forums: Large storage with small linode in General Discussion <>
11:36<EugeneKay>"moar storage" seems to be a pretty common request.... where's our SATAnodes? :-p
11:37<@akerl>They're storing all my cat pictures
11:37<hawk>akerl: Do you have any cat pictures?
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11:38<@akerl>Actually I do not
11:38*EugeneKay does a bit of mental math
11:38<hawk>akerl: I suspected as much
11:39<EugeneKay>The supermicro 1Us I'm betting are being used are 4-disk jobbies..... RAID 10 means 2 disks, 40 512s * 20GB = 800GB of storage needed, which is doable with a pair of "600GB" 10k drives, with room leftover for extras.
11:40<EugeneKay>Switching to "3TB" 5400rpm satas should give 5400GB / 40 = ~130 usable per 512. Call it 100 so there's room for extras.
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11:41<EugeneKay>And at a bit lower price bracket, going by Newegg's prices on a 600GB 10k raptor vs a 3TB Seagate.
11:41<rnowak>4U or larger would be far more economical for that purpose
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11:44<EugeneKay>Yes, but switching to a different barebones kit loses you single-hardware compatibility on the cases, motherboards, power supplies, etc.
11:44<nehalem>Hello guys. Ever since updating to the latest 3.0 kernel and rebooting, my system is swapping more than I like. It's not necessarily thrashing so I'm just wondering if there's something I should know about this new kernel
11:44<Alan>lol kernel...
11:44<Alan>I should probably upgrade one of those.
11:45<Alan>$ users
11:45<Alan>alan tom tom tom tom tom tom
11:45<Alan>bloody tom
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11:46<mbreslin>that 4th tom is a piece of shit i wouldn't let him on your system
11:46<mbreslin>the rest are alright
11:48<@akerl>nehalem: How do you define "swapping more than you like"?
11:50<nehalem>akerl, I get a few red spikes on the graph in the Linode manager. Like every couple hours there a bit of swapping occurring. Max 236 Avg 3 Last 1.2. It's just that this never happened till now and I haven't changes anything except the kernel and rebooted
11:51<KyleXY>Alan: tom! :)
11:51<@akerl>Step one is to figure out what's swapping
11:51<nehalem>Is there a better way than to glue my eyes on vmstat?
11:52<@akerl>munin is pretty sexy
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11:52<mbreslin>step two: electric boogaloo
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11:53<nehalem>Even GWT says my pages load marginally slower on average when googlebot fetches them
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11:54<Per-Aa>ok is there a way to make snapshots of the linode ? ;P
11:54<@akerl>Per-Aa: Linode Backup Service
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11:54<Per-Aa>ye but this is only per 24h, right ?
11:55<@akerl>The Backup Service has 3 automatic snapshots, and a manual one.
11:55<@akerl>You can do the manual one whenever you'd like
11:55<@irgeek>But you'll replace the old one.
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12:00<nehalem>akerl, I'm noticing that the last few swaps coincide with spikes in outgoin network activity and spikes in CPU. guess my website is getting a bit of attention which I've been noticing in the last few days :-)
12:00<Per-Aa>i screwed up my installation for a 3rd time while trying to set up citadel or postfix
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12:01<nehalem>Per-Aa: I've had it with citadel and postfix. I just use Google apps nowadays X_X
12:02<Per-Aa>well i'm trying to set up something ISP'ish for my friend and his websites
12:02<Per-Aa>what would you suggest then ?
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12:05<nehalem>Per-Aa: google apps has a free version that provides email for up to 10 users per free account
12:05<nehalem>Per-Aa: what do you mean ISPish?
12:06<Per-Aa>i mean for a web panel to add new users with e-mail accounts and web hosting space
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12:10<nehalem>Per-Aa: does the solution have to be free?
12:10<Per-Aa>or should i just go with ISPConfig ?
12:11<nehalem>Per-Aa: I was about to recommend cPanel. ISPConfig seems to do the same thing. It's up to you but nowadays I stay away from postfix etc
12:12<Per-Aa>but doesnt ispconfig require postfix anyway ?
12:14<nehalem>They may or may not require it, but they manage it automatically from my reading. Cpanel monitors health and restarts failed services etc
12:17<rnowak>if you can't do it manually, don't do it with the "help" of a control panel
12:17-!-dominiclp [] has joined #linode
12:17<dominiclp>Hi, any staff here?
12:17-!-hipsterslapfight [] has quit []
12:17<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
12:17<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
12:18<dominiclp>Okay. Well, How long do Linode VPS take for set up?
12:18<Per-Aa>i can do it manually and will do part of my own stuff - just need the Panel for a friend so he can do his stuff as well
12:18<rnowak>"instant" if there's no complication with your registration, dominiclp
12:18<dominiclp>Thanks :)
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12:24<Katana>what the heck is umask 0007
12:24<Katana>i'm having a brainfart today
12:24<Katana>that's chmod isn't it
12:25<rnowak>0007 is u -rwxrwx---
12:27<Katana>i have to suffer through physics lab in 30 minutes :(
12:27<rnowak>a umas of 0022 would result in 0755 permissions when the mask is applied
12:27<Katana>the instructor nearly put me to sleep yesterday, for the first class ~_~
12:27<Katana>rnowak: Hmmm, gotcha. Looking at the gitlab instructions atm.
12:27<KyleXY>Katana: ...still?
12:27<Katana>KyleXY: i'm still pondering installing it
12:27<KyleXY>Katana: it took me no more than 3 hours with breaks ._.
12:28<rnowak>Katana: taking physics at uni or?
12:28<Katana>my college, ya
12:28<rnowak>my condolences
12:28<KyleXY>rnowak: just as boring for you? :p
12:28<rnowak>I'm a chemical engineer, I must hate physicists, it is in my nature
12:29<Katana>KyleXY: I'm waiting until tonight to start, I'm hosting git repos for a friend who's making a portal 2 mod, need to give him and his dev teams some advance warning of downtime
12:29<KyleXY>Katana: ooh, link to the mod ♥
12:29*KyleXY is a linkaholic
12:29<Katana>KyleXY: there is none. it's not posted up yet :P
12:29<KyleXY>Katana: well hurreh up :)
12:29<KyleXY>nothing much
12:31<Katana>KyleXY: it's a portal 2 mod, remember
12:32<Katana>valve time has a ripple effect
12:32<KyleXY>Katana: which is why I want the link :)
12:36*Katana coughs
12:37<Katana>KyleXY: I asked, I have obtained linkage from him P:
12:37<KyleXY>yay, heh
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13:15<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
13:15<Per-Aa>i am really getting impatient with this citadel
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13:15<Per-Aa>cant even get it to start
13:15<rnowak>perhaps system administration isn't for you
13:15<Per-Aa>did all steps as in the guide on
13:16<Per-Aa>no, GUI interfaces are not for me
13:16<metaperl>am I the only one in the world who does not know how to display a slide incrementally -
13:17<rnowak>uh... you'd use animations for that?
13:17<metaperl>i'm not sure and what key would you use to incrementally display it?
13:17<rnowak>give me a sec, fireing it up
13:18<rnowak>you'd hit "next slide", so space, or arrow key, whatever
13:18<Per-Aa>anyone here who managed to set up citadel ?
13:18<metaperl>rnowak: but you have to highlight the bullets and apply an animation effect to them?
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13:20<rnowak>ok metaperl
13:21<rnowak>Add a new header+content slide. Add a few bullet points, select all of them, on the right side under tasks, select Custom Animation, add whatever fade-in effect you want. Then on the right, under Effect, choose each bullet point and set start to On click
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13:22<metaperl>thank you
13:22<rnowak>powerpoint makes it a bit simpler :)
13:22<metaperl>i dont own that....
13:22<metaperl>a bunch of HTML slide things have class="incremental" for this purpose
13:23<rnowak>there might be some shortcut to doing this, but well, the above works
13:28<auraka>powerpoint is evil
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13:32<Per-Aa>aaaargh, so nobody using citadel ?
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14:03<linbot>I'm leaving Linode for the cloud!
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14:09<hawk>What about leaving the cloud for linode?
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14:18<auraka>I'm leaving it for webscale
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14:33<jenner>guys, my nodebalancer doesn't respond on port 80
14:33<jenner>all backends up and running
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14:34<totem>hi everyone
14:35<hawk>jenner: You might want to file a ticket
14:35<totem>Is any drupalist here?
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14:36<jenner>shit, this is really urgent
14:36<jenner>any linode ops alive?
14:36<jenner>ticket 773562
14:37<@tasaro>jenner: ticket received, we're looking into it.
14:38<jenner>I'll be shitting bricks meanwhile
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14:43<jenner>is there a way to take over the public IP of a loadbalancer to a linode?
14:45<jenner>tasaro: balancers' back up
14:45<jenner>tasaro: whatever you or the engineers did -- thanks
14:46<totem>hey I setup drupal 6 on varnish and it works fine but drupal 7 brings 503 error, does any one know what may cause the problem?
14:47<@akerl>totem: What does your error log say?
14:48<tusk>totem: maybe look at
14:48<tusk>there are some drupal 7 changes to php.ini
14:49<totem>thanks info
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14:49<totem>you know something that is so weard is that I put exeption for that domain
14:49<totem>so the varnish would pass it
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14:50<totem>but it didn't work, even though in pressflow.vcl there is line that puts exeptions for install.php and update.php but it still give the same error
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14:52<jenner>guys, really, that's the second time I have issue with a NodeBalancer... I'm considering to move to a two linodes with LVS and keepalived setup
14:55<kyhwana>jenner: what do you mean "take over the public IP of a loadbalancer"?
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14:56<hawk>kyhwana: I would guess the question is if you can transfer the IP to a regular (li)node
14:57<kyhwana>don't think you can do that
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15:59<Takyoji>Anyone know the way to perform a SHA-512 hash on a string via command line?
16:00<hawk>echo -n foo | sha512sum
16:00<bob2>(-n) is teh crucial
16:01<imMute>unless you *want* the newline in the hash
16:01<Takyoji>Hmm, hash seems much longer than usual
16:02<Kyh>Takyoji: .. it's a SHA-512
16:02<Takyoji>Well yea, but I'm just saying in context of common crypt() output
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16:03<Takyoji>I usually get like 80 characters
16:03<dwfreed_>Because crypt() outputs an encoded string
16:03<danstoner>Takyoji: I think you can use openssl on the command line to do this.
16:03<doritoDan>I'm considering using Linode, but I'm sort of new to sys management/*nix/linux. Is Linode newbie-friendly?
16:03<dwfreed_>Takyoji: check out mkpasswd; it's a frontend to the crypt() function
16:03<doritoDan>As a community.
16:03<Takyoji>ahh, the output is hex, whereas crypt() does base64 I assume
16:04<dwfreed_>doritoDan: certainly; linode is also a great place to experiment
16:04<doritoDan>Okay, cool.
16:05<imMute>doritoDan: Linode is *very* noob friendly. break something beyond repair? just reimage it. break networking? use the LISH console.
16:05<doritoDan>imMute: Well, I'm mostly curious about the community mentality.
16:05<imMute>throw in ArchLinux's wiki and community and you've got probably the best starting ground.
16:06<doritoDan>I've gotten involved with communities before that have turned out to be sort of snarky at the prospect of someone not being as experienced as them.
16:06<doritoDan>So I felt I should ask here before signing up. :-)
16:06-!-mpoole_ [] has joined #linode
16:07<Kyh>doritoDan: as long as you can learn and read properly, we'll keep the snark to a minimum..
16:07<Kyh>No promises if you can't, tho ;)
16:07<doritoDan>Sounds reasonable. :-)
16:08<rnowak>I heard snark
16:08<Kyh>Oh, hai rnowak
16:09<imMute>I can be snarky, but not at inexperience, more at refusal to learn.
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16:14<sghael>Hi Linode. Q: What steps can i take to 'move' my linode from one account to another. I don't minimal downtime, so if i can take a snapshot somehow and then restore from that snapshot on the other account, i'm wlling to do that. Is somethign like that possible? Other alternatives. I want to prevent re-imaging and re-installing all my blogs in a new account server from scratch.
16:14<Kyh>rnowak: backwards smiley!
16:15<rnowak>Kyh: si
16:15<Kyh>sghael: I think you can submit support tickets from both accounts and get it moved. Not sure if you have to shut it down or not
16:15-!-alexgordon [] has joined #linode
16:15<rnowak>itym shutdown it
16:16*Kyh logins to rnowak and setups some things
16:16<corycollier>SOPA interupt: <= really well said
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16:23<doritoDan>I agree corycollier.
16:23<doritoDan>I'm getting tired of hipster circlejerks. :-)
16:24<mbreslin>dwfreed_: as a w7 how do you do development or do you have other machines
16:24<mbreslin>s/w7/w7 user/
16:25-!-dassouki [~ahmed@] has joined #linode
16:25<dwfreed_>mbreslin: Linode and dev VM
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16:27<Kyh>VMs <3
16:28<mbreslin>what software in w7
16:29<mbreslin>i have been using a dev specific linode but my cable connection has been very sketchy so i was going to try a local vm
16:29<mbreslin>(and also save a bit of money)
16:30-!-joar [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
16:31<tusk>doritoDan: I signup for linode less than a month ago and I am very happy customer.
16:31-!-dwfreed_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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16:32<tusk>doritoDan: what linux distro are you considering using ?
16:32<mbreslin>dwfreed: don't be unstable when i'm trying to talk to you!
16:32<dwfreed>mbreslin: blame my college's internet
16:32<@akerl>dwfreed: That's why you should connect from a Linode :)
16:32<mbreslin>which virtualization software?
16:32-!-AviMarcus [] has joined #linode
16:32<doritoDan>It's the only Linux distro I've ever used that doens't look bad from a design standpoint - except for Mint, but Mint was totally unstable when I used it a couple of weeks ago.
16:33<dwfreed>mbreslin: Virtualbox
16:33<@akerl>doritoDan: The server won't have a gui, will it?
16:33<doritoDan>I'm going to install the desktop version.
16:33-!-joar [] has joined #linode
16:33<mbreslin>akerl: have you used ubuntu? its cli is to die for
16:33<doritoDan>In order to get a remote desktop.
16:34-!-userx_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:34<@akerl>doritoDan: I'd suggest learning to love the terminal, but it's your choice
16:34<Kyh>doritoDan: why not install server and then install ubuntu-desktop or whatever else you need for VNC
16:34<doritoDan>Yes Kyh, that's what I'm going to do.
16:34<doritoDan>akerl: I'm going to be using it for work.
16:34<doritoDan>So a desktop would be preferable.
16:35<doritoDan>Of course, there will be cmd usage too.
16:35-!-userx|- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:35<mbreslin>doritoDan: when your coworkers see you in the cli it gives the impression you're getting stuff done
16:36<doritoDan>Nah, they'll be wondering why the heck I'm not doing what I'm supposed to. :P
16:36<doritoDan>Our internal systems are pretty visual.
16:36<doritoDan>I study on the side, so this is what I'll be using my Linode for, along with network programming and good old experimenting.
16:37<tusk>Even the new windows 8 will also come in a CLI-only server version
16:37<tusk>doritoDan: sounds good. Alway nice to mix study with practice
16:37<doritoDan>Heh, yeah. :)
16:37-!-Typo [] has joined #linode
16:37<mbreslin>dwfreed: do you script installs on the vm to make it mimic prod or just wing it
16:37<doritoDan>Anybody else have VNC set up on Linode?
16:38<doritoDan>Also, how come Linode doesn't have any BSDs?
16:38<tusk>cli 100%
16:38<dwfreed>mbreslin: all of my development is for me personally, so I just ensure everything I run has what i need to run my programs
16:38<doritoDan>Like Free/OpenBSD
16:38<@heckman>FreeBSD's support for PV is poor
16:39<@heckman>It's slowly making progress to working with Xen, but still has hurdles.
16:39<doritoDan>Aha, I see.
16:39<dwfreed>and it is called Linode, not BSDnode :)
16:39<tusk>doritoDan: you can run FreeBSD inside VirtualBox if you realy want.
16:39<doritoDan>dwfreed: Right.
16:39<doritoDan>tusk: Good idea.
16:40<doritoDan>You think a 1gb RAM serv would be enough for that?
16:40<@heckman>Last I heard FreeBSD can only use one core (so you need to have one of the members of support scale your CPU count back), and that even then it was rocky.
16:40<doritoDan>My friend uses Linode and said I won't be able to do much with only 1 GB RAM if I'm going to use VNC in a remote desktop environment.
16:40<doritoDan>Like Ubuntu.
16:40<Kyh>doritoDan: you can run BSD on linode using pv-grub, but it's _totally_ unsupported by linode
16:40<doritoDan>Like, he said that I should pretty much rule out using any Java app.
16:40<doritoDan>Such as Eclipse.
16:40<@akerl>doritoDan: That's because GUIs are heavy on the RAMz
16:41<Kyh>doritoDan: depends what you're running, but yeah, GUI crap tends to eat up rams
16:41<Kyh>akerl: lols java
16:41<dwfreed>heckman: wut? You'd think it'd have multicore support by now, considering HT has been around for several years
16:41<mbreslin>doritoDan: when i first got linodes vnc was a thing i did, fluxbox ran ok but you couldn't open many apps without massive slowdown
16:41<Katana>doritoDan: WAI U NO HAVE EXPERIENCE. all of us magically gained it what are you talking about
16:41<@heckman>dwfreed: It does for hardware, last I heard PV support is one core
16:41<Katana>doritoDan: ;P
16:42<doritoDan>Okay, I hear you guys.
16:42<Kyh>doritoDan: so, it IS possible to do, just be aware you'll need more rams
16:42<tusk>doritoDan: you could also run a X server on your local machine
16:42-!-bbeausej1 [] has left #linode []
16:42<Katana>Kyh: but the rams suck
16:42<mbreslin>if you can't find a ram possibly a large elk will do
16:43-!-TypoAway [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:43<doritoDan>tusk: I don't have internet at home.
16:43<doritoDan>Only mobile internet.
16:43<tusk>and then send the visual of the GUI linode programs directly to your X server without a GUI running on your linode
16:43<tusk>doritoDan: How fast is mobile internet ?
16:44<mbreslin>doritoDan: do you mean wireless or only your phone?
16:44<doritoDan>tusk: 4G can get up to 80mbit I think.
16:44<doritoDan>I'm on 10 through 3G on my iPhone though.
16:44<doritoDan>It works well enough. I like to stay portable.
16:44<doritoDan>mbreslin: My phone.
16:45<doritoDan>I tether from my phone to all of my devices.
16:45<mbreslin>doritoDan: i would have been in internet detox by now
16:45<tusk>so you only got a phone to access the internet ? not a real desktop/laptop computer ?
16:45<doritoDan>Ok so… do you guys think I can get away with running Xchat, Firefox (3-10 tabs), Eclipse, Apache, a Python server daemon and - if possible - a game- or voice chat server (from time to time)
16:45<linbot>New news from forums: Subdomains and VirtualHost in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
16:45<doritoDan>On 512mb or 1gb of RAM?
16:46<doritoDan>Simultaneously that is.
16:46<@heckman>Good luck running Firefox ALONE on 512 mb of RAM
16:46<tusk>doritoDan: consider running a X server locally and forward the display of your linux program on linode to your local machine.
16:46<@akerl>People still run firefox?
16:46<Kyh>well, X/vnc/NX will probably be the same slowness
16:46<tusk>that way you can avoid the huge overhead of VNC
16:46<doritoDan>tusk: I can't do that because I don't have an internet connection at home.
16:46<@heckman>Also, what window manager are you going to use?
16:46<doritoDan>Oh wait.
16:46<doritoDan>I hear you.
16:47<doritoDan>Sorry, I misread.
16:47<Kyh>exporting X to your local X server has the disadvantage of if you lose network, your X apps close
16:47<doritoDan>heckman: Idk, Unity.
16:47<@heckman>Well, I could see that using 300-500mb alone
16:47<doritoDan>[22:46:12] <@heckman> Good luck running Firefox ALONE on 512 mb of RAM <-- Actually, I'm running it along with Xchat on a 512mb server right now.
16:47<tusk>Kyh: can you do some trick with ssh ? like you can do with the screen program for cli connections ?
16:47<doritoDan>And it's working OK.
16:48<@heckman>color me impressed
16:48<doritoDan>It's in xfce though.
16:48<@heckman>Firefox is a bit...heavy
16:48<doritoDan>What do you use?
16:48<Kyh>tusk: ? what do you mean?
16:48<Kyh>tusk: NX will work like that..
16:48<tusk>doritoDan: do you know ssh -X <user>@<linode> program ?
16:49-!-basro_ [~basro@] has joined #linode
16:49<doritoDan>tusk: No, sorry, I'm really new to Linux.
16:49<tusk>then you can a program and get the display back with VNC
16:49<tusk>without VNC
16:49<doritoDan>I'm not good at this kind of stuff at all.
16:49<Kyh>tusk: nah, if his net connection is dodgy, VNC or NX would be the best bet..
16:49<doritoDan>I'm not familiar with X server, but I'll read up on it.
16:49<Kyh>If you use NX, you don't need a WM
16:49<tusk>Kyh: ok.
16:49<Kyh>which would save you some RAM
16:50<Kyh>doritoDan: it's doable, but you're going to need at least 1.5-2GB of RAM to run a full desktop via VNC
16:50<doritoDan>It's so expensive. :/
16:51<Katana>fwiw, why eclipse
16:51<Kyh>doritoDan: yep, but if that's what you want to do, you'll need the RAM
16:51<doritoDan>I spend way too much money on online subscriptions as it is.
16:51<Katana>What dev are you looking to do
16:51<doritoDan>Katana: C++.
16:51<Kyh>doritoDan: you can start with a cheaper one and then upgrade if you find you need more RAM
16:51<Katana>Check for alternatives
16:51<doritoDan>Kyh: Good idea.
16:51<doritoDan>Katana: Why? I've been using it for a bit, and it's the only IDE I tried that works as advertised.
16:51<Kyh>I'm sure there other IDE's that are more lightweight than eclipse :)
16:51<Katana>if you can find something not-java-based, you'll save a lot of RAM
16:51<Katana>What Kyh said basically
16:51<mbreslin>Kyh: yeah like all of them.
16:52<Katana>IDEs take up a lot of RAM
16:52<Katana>maybe give vim a shot?
16:52*Katana shrugs
16:52<doritoDan>I want to go vim eventually.
16:52<tusk>doritoDan: vim is great with ctags
16:52<doritoDan>But now is not the time.
16:52<Katana>There's also sublime, I'm messing with that as a GUI editor right now, seems nice
16:52<Katana>in windows it's taking up...uhhh
16:52<mbreslin>doritoDan: i work in eclipse every day on machines tuned for it and i still hate it
16:52<Katana>28mb RAM, private working set
16:53<Katana>hard to say
16:53<Katana>say, fifty meg of ram?
16:53<mbreslin>doritoDan: trying to run it remotely would be a nightmare
16:53<Katana>mbreslin: suddenly autocomplete calltips
16:53<doritoDan>Well man.
16:53<doritoDan>I'm running it right now on xfce and a 512mb slice.
16:53-!-Per-Aa [] has quit []
16:53<doritoDan>I haven't used it much
16:53<dwfreed>eclipse isn't too bad for me, but I only used it for Java development for a class
16:53<doritoDan>but it doesn't seem to bog down the system
16:54<Katana>sublime seems to not use much ram beyond what's open
16:54<tusk>doritoDan: what linux are you using at home ?
16:54-!-matin [] has joined #linode
16:54<doritoDan>tusk: Well, I have a pretty… special setup. :(
16:55<Katana>doritoDan: fwiw, if you run as much as you can CLI, you'll save a bit of RAM as well
16:55<doritoDan>I virtualize Windows, Ubuntu and FreeBSD from within OSX.
16:55<Katana>for irc, irssi or weechat are worth a shot
16:55<doritoDan>each environment has its own purpose and set of profiles
16:55<dwfreed>irssi <3
16:55<doritoDan>I'm looking to get rid of the ubuntu one and moving it to a remote location instead
16:55<doritoDan>as it's basically only used for school and networking
16:55<doritoDan>and programming
16:55<Katana>doritoDan: you got freebsd to run in a VM
16:55<Katana>doritoDan: how the hell
16:56-!-basro [~basro@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:56<doritoDan>It wasn't hard at all man.
16:56<Katana>every time i've tried
16:56<doritoDan>Maybe I got lucky.
16:56<Katana>installer would segfault, or it'd blow up on package installation
16:56<doritoDan>Which VM app did you use?
16:56<Katana>probably the issue
16:56<doritoDan>Katana: I heard great things about irssi.
16:56<doritoDan>Bit O
16:56<doritoDan>But I'm gonna try a new service.*
16:56<matin>i'm setting up google apps for email, and i'm pretty sure i properly set up mx records
16:56<doritoDan>Katana: I used VMware Fusion.
16:56<tusk>Katana: FreeBSD also worked for me in virtualbox under linux some months ago.
16:56<mbreslin>i'm leaving irssi for the cloud
16:57<matin>but it's still saying points to
16:57<linbot>I'm leaving Linode for the cloud!
16:57<Kyh>I'm leaving the cloud for the moon
16:57-!-userme [] has joined #linode
16:57<Katana>matin: how long ago did you make the change
16:57<doritoDan>OK so,
16:57<doritoDan>Sorry for all the questions but this is probably my last one. You're saying that Firefox is bogged down
16:57<matin>Katana, well i tried yesterday, no success. and now im trying again
16:57<doritoDan>so what do you guys use?
16:57<tusk>matin: it can take some time for move to all nameservers.
16:58<matin>changed it again like 30 minutes ago
16:58<Katana>doritoDan: I socks proxy if I need anything - chrome though.
16:58<doritoDan>Dang, that's hardcore.
16:58<tusk>matin: check with dig @<primary nameserver>
16:58<Katana>Chrome locally, SOCKS proxy through ssh tunnel :)
16:59<doritoDan>Alright, so how do you guys feel about Sublime, irssi and Chrome running on xfce -> Ubuntu on a 1 GB slice?
16:59<tusk>doritoDan: I use Linux Mint, OpenSuse, FreeBSD and Ubuntu
16:59-!-oeuftete [~oeuftete@] has joined #linode
16:59<Kyh>doritoDan: as long as you don't open too many tabs in chrome it should be OK
16:59*Katana shrugs
16:59<tusk>doritoDan: and on my linode I use Debian
16:59<doritoDan>Kyh: Alright.
16:59<doritoDan>tusk: Man, how do you manage to get Mint to run?
16:59<doritoDan>I tried it the other week. It looked *absolutely stunning* but crashed all the time.
16:59<Katana>doritoDan: mint 12 or 11?
16:59<doritoDan>People from the linux mint channel said it was because of gnome3.
16:59<doritoDan>Katana: Idk, whatever's the latest.
17:00<Katana>12 then
17:00<doritoDan>I guess so.
17:00<Katana>I've still got 11 installed ^.^
17:00<tusk>doritoDan: I use Linux Mint 10 which was the newest 14 months ago when I got this machine.
17:00<Katana>Works just fine - the gnome2 base + compiz works fine
17:00-!-ahf [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00<tusk>with compiz and everything.
17:00<Katana>Until cinnamon is ready for prime time I won't drop mint 11.
17:00<matin>tusk, what do you mean dig @?
17:00<doritoDan>Okay, well thanks for all the info.
17:01<doritoDan>I'll start slow with 512mb and upgrade to 1gb if needed.
17:01<doritoDan>Using the apps you've suggested.
17:01<tusk>matin: you can check your primary nameserver directly with the dig command.
17:01<tusk>if eg. your primary nameserver is and your domain is then write dig @ MX
17:03<Katana>okay it seems that my campus' dns relay is borked now.
17:03<matin>ok is set up properly
17:03<Katana>excuse me while I go beat a sysadmin over the head
17:03<matin>with correct mx
17:03<tusk>I had to add ' intel_idle.max_cstate=0' to run Linux Mint 10 but that is a kernel problem.
17:03<matin>lol, now google is saying "no mx records found"
17:04-!-JediMaster [] has joined #linode
17:04<tusk>matin: what is your domain name ? then I will check for you
17:05<mbreslin> 299 IN MX 10 ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.COM.
17:05-!-dassouki [~ahmed@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06<matin>yeah, tusk it's
17:06<tusk>matin: it looks correct.
17:06<tusk>if 1 ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM is correct ?
17:06<Katana> <- ha
17:07<tusk>matin: do you really need four MX records ?
17:07<tusk>$ host
17:07<tusk> has address
17:07<tusk> mail is handled by 10 ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.COM.
17:07<tusk> mail is handled by 1 ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM.
17:07<tusk> mail is handled by 5 ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM.
17:07<tusk> mail is handled by 10 ASPMX2.GOOGLEMAIL.COM.
17:07<Kyh>tusk: google gives you all four to put in
17:07-!-malphaet [] has joined #linode
17:08<matin>tusk, that's what they say
17:09<tusk>matin: dig @ MX
17:09<mbreslin>tusk: i didn't spam them all on purpose ;p
17:09<tusk>shows that a least one of google dns-server has pick up your changes.
17:09<tusk>mbreslin: ok. I just was wondering why you didn't pick the one with the lowest number :-)
17:12<hawk>Kyh: They used to give you seven
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17:21<matin>not all are showing
17:21<matin>but close enough :D
17:21<matin>damn, but
17:21<matin>still not working
17:21<matin>and i added CNAME
17:23<bob2>not all what are showing
17:23<GLaDOSDan>matin: i think that might be a google error
17:24<GLaDOSDan>i set up a new domain with google apps about 3 days ago and i have the same issue
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17:25<mbreslin>i've discovered ipv6 is sort of being at a taping of oprah
17:25<mbreslin>you get a real ip and you get a real ip
17:25<mbreslin>it's fun!
17:27<SirSquidness>Everyone gets a real IP!
17:28<SirSquidness>also bees.
17:28<mbreslin>i'm sure people on business class whos isps give them multiple ipv4 ips feel the same way though
17:28<Katana>...what in the world is going on
17:28<Katana>i'm seeing something gong on with MPAA on twitter
17:29<matin>bob2, mx records
17:29<bob2>the mx records are fine
17:30<bob2>did you wait fifteen minutes after configuring them in the DNS manager before asking google to check?
17:30<mbreslin>anon hacked doj or something, i haven't read to see if they actually hacked them or just ddos'd like usual
17:31<synapt>They didn't 'Hack', they're pretty epicly DDoSing it seems
17:31-!-smed_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:31<mbreslin>that's 250% more boring
17:31<synapt>,, and apparently just about are all dead
17:31<matin>alright they're working now :P
17:31<Katana>so, anon just began their holy war eh
17:31<Kyh>Katana: hopefully it keeps going
17:31<synapt>katana: if not the internet in general, not a lot of people happy at this one
17:31<bob2>matin, serious tip: after touching anything in the dns manager, do not try to access the things you changed for at least fifteen minutes
17:31<Katana>someone just end this the easy way
17:32<synapt>I find it ironic this all happens a few weeks after MU started their fight over that music video
17:32<matin>oh ok
17:32<Katana>drop a cruise missile on the RIAA hq
17:32<Kyh>Katana: they need to take them out and keep them down
17:33<mbreslin>i don't see why people would fight the riaa if they had their silly things passed we'd have no justin bieber
17:33<synapt>mbreslin: That wouldn't save us from bieber now sadly
17:33<Katana>what needs to happen is the RIAA needs to be en-masse arrested for what they've been doing behind the scenes
17:33<Katana>RICO act would probably come into play I bet
17:34<Katana>there's no way in hell they are a clean bunch, there's a lot of skeletons waiting to be uncovered
17:34<mbreslin>and with the power of their lobby all those skeltons will stay covered
17:34<mbreslin>nobody will shit on millions of campaign contributions
17:35<synapt>Well they've already shown several of the SOPA 'founders' breaching copyrights themselves
17:35<synapt>which I thought was flawlessly hilarious
17:36<matin>so any ideas why im getting 404 error when accessing
17:36<matin>cname is set up, to
17:37<mbreslin>(also a 404)
17:38<dwfreed>matin: did you tell google that you wanted to use as your address for accessing your mail?
17:38<mbreslin>dwfreed: damnit, i was just going to say that. google ninja
17:39*dwfreed has been around the block a few times with GApps
17:39<dwfreed>speaking of, i need to do that myself with
17:40<mbreslin>!web title
17:40-!-blaphmat [] has joined #linode
17:40<matin>dwfreed, ....where am i supposed to do that?
17:41-!-seanyu [~seanyu@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:41<matin>oh i found it :D
17:41<mbreslin>email -> general->web address -> change url ->
17:41<mbreslin><-- slow
17:41-!-seanyu [~seanyu@] has joined #linode
17:42<mbreslin>matin: i don't mean to harp on you (again) but i know nothing about google apps and i found the answer in 8 seconds by googling
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17:44<auraka>goodbye megaupload...sweet prince
17:44<matin>mbreslin, it's no problem. my brain is so fried that i cant look through google results. i just need basic instructions
17:45-!-fisted_ [] has joined #linode
17:45<mbreslin>i'll be trying that one out on my pm tomorrow
17:46<matin>pm == project manager?
17:47<mbreslin>can't do it man, brain fried
17:47<matin>haha, yea im sure that'll slide
17:47<mbreslin>then i'll just go to lunch
17:47<mbreslin>what could possibly go wrong
17:47<matin>benefit of being a student
17:47<praetorian>"sorry im on strike because megaupload is closed"
17:48<matin>haha praetorian
17:48-!-fisted [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:48<mbreslin>praetorian: eclipse never goes on strike :<
17:49-!-AndyWarburton81 [] has joined #linode
17:49<praetorian>mbreslin: but java develoeprs die earlier.
17:49<AndyWarburton81>Hey guys… does anyone have five minutes to help me solve an SSL problem?
17:49<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
17:50<mbreslin>praetorian: haha the next time anyone walks in to our shop with something healthy i'm going to say "HAHA man it's too late now!"
17:50<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
17:50<AndyWarburton81>lol :0) Sorry… I'm new to this IRC malarky
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17:51<matin>alright, im going to head back to chem -.-
17:51<hyperial>Any known bandwidth problems out of the ATL DC? I'm getting really slow download speeds to at least 2 of my linodes there from <50k
17:51-!-squircle [~squircle@2001:470:1d:647:cabc:c8ff:fee7:8bb7] has joined #linode
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17:52<matin>nope sorry, im in newark
17:52<hyperial>Whereas I'm getting 1.69M/s from my UK linode from
17:52<RiddleR>I have some questions regarding your hosting cam I get some help in private chat or something like that?
17:53<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
17:53<RiddleR>OK bot I will :)
17:53<AndyWarburton81>FUCKS SAKE. Just spent five minutes typing out my question. Tested an example URL and now it's working fine.
17:53<AndyWarburton81>PISS FLAPS
17:53<AndyWarburton81>Thanks for being there guys! :)
17:53<Kyh>heh, that was easy
17:54<squircle>piss flaps?
17:54<RiddleR>I wanted to ask about inboud and outbound connection support over sockets
17:54<RiddleR>which ports are oppened and which protocols are supported?
17:54<matin>squircle, dont ask questions you dont want the answer to
17:54<Kyh>RiddleR: what?
17:54<Kyh>RiddleR: TCP/IP (and UDP)
17:54<Kyh>(and ipv4/6)
17:54<squircle>RiddleR: all ports are open (except common IRC ports in Atlanta only) and nothing's filtered
17:55<Kyh>ah right
17:55<rnowak>and anything else you can think of that can go over IP
17:55<RiddleR>wOW GREAT
17:55<RiddleR>Cnat see what Im typing freaking script xD
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17:56<RiddleR>OK, so all ports are opened and I can use udp. Wooohoo :P
17:56-!-seanyu [~seanyu@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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17:57<squircle>what kind of VPS provider would filter UDP?
17:57<RiddleR>Don't want to trash talk :P
17:57<bob2>atlanta blocks some shit
17:57<bob2>since they're asshats
17:57-!-stafamus [] has joined #linode
17:57<RiddleR>But some of them do
17:57<bob2>but that's just some tcp irc ports
17:58<hyperial>Once more... Any known bandwidth problems incoming to the ATL DC? I'm getting really slow download speeds to at least 3 of my linodes there from <50k Speeds from to any of my other linodes is REALLY fast...
17:58-!-michal [] has joined #linode
17:59<@akerl>hyperial: What does MTR say?
17:59<linbot>mtr combines the functionality of traceroute and ping into one easy to use tool, and the output can be useful for determining where the source of a problem is. It can be downloaded from or for Windows. MTR summaries can be retrieved in-channel using the command !mtr-CITY where CITY is fremont, atlanta, newark, dallas or london.
18:00<linbot>thanks, squircle!
18:00<StevenK>There needs to be a !mtr-tokyo :-(
18:01<retro|blah>10% packet loss to from here
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18:03-!-marenostrum [marenostru@] has joined #linode
18:03<retro|blah> mwahahahahaha
18:04<marenostrum>Hi, dear friends. I'm an intermediate level desktop GNU/Linux user seriously planning to join Linode. On writes: "We identified a large-scale Denial of Service attack targeting a Linode in the Newark facility. We have taken the necessary measures to mitigate the attack and connectivity to the Linodes affected by the attack has now stabilised." Does it mean that in case of such DoS attacks aren't the users on their own? I k
18:04<marenostrum>now the Linode VPS system, Linode provides us with the running system and we do the rest. If we become the target and victim of such attacts is there some kind of help from Linode side? And won't I blamed for "attracting" such attacts?
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18:07<@ericoc>marenostrum: generally, if the attack affects our gear/other customers, the ip address of the linode being targeted is going to be null routed for a minimum of 24 hours
18:08<marenostrum>ericoc, Thanks for the reply.
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18:20<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
18:20-!-Ghost|NetBeans [~Ghost@] has joined #linode
18:20*tusk goes to bed
18:20-!-tusk [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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18:21<linbot>New news from forums: Request: managed database in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
18:22<Kyh>heh, managed DB
18:22<ifit>Can any staff member help me with a NodeBalancer?
18:23<Kyh>ifit: whats wrong?
18:24<ifit>I am showing 5K connections on the graph, but hardly any traffic is coming through
18:24<@akerl>ifit: Do you have keepalives turned on?
18:24<ifit>I know 5K is the Max for the NodBalancers
18:26-!-JoshMTB [~Adium@] has joined #linode
18:26<ifit>Yes to keepalives
18:26<@akerl>ifit: That's why
18:26<ifit>The servers respond just fine individually though
18:27<ifit>and show up on the NodeBalancer
18:27<@akerl>You have the 5k connection max, which is filled with keepalive'd connections of clients who have already forgotten having connected to your nodebalancer
18:29-!-Leo [LinodeJava@] has joined #linode
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18:29<Leo>anyone here?
18:30<Kyh>Leo: Nope
18:30<@caker>ifit: KeepAlives consume NodeBalancer connections - even browsers sitting there idle. Disable KeepAlives and your NodeBalancer and webservers will be much happier
18:31<@caker>5k concurrent connections is pretty huge.
18:31<Leo>Anyone here works for linode?
18:31<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
18:31<ifit>Caker - yeah, it usually averages around 2K, during the day and then in the envening goes to 3-4K
18:32<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
18:32<@caker>ifit: my guess is turning KeepAlives off you'll see that number go to a fraction of that
18:32<ifit>Caker - Can you reset my NodeBalancer? Even setting one of the servers to REJECT has the NodeBalancer still thinking its up.
18:33<Leo>I lost my credit card so i had to use my moms.. But shes traveling and kinda hard to get internet connection. Do you guys know if it is possible to cancel that credit card and use another one? I think the credit card was charged already..
18:33-!-JoshMTB [~Adium@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:33<Leo>Do you guys think my photo id would work?
18:34<@caker>ifit: not sure what you mean by reset it ..
18:34<bikcmp>Leo: why do you need it?
18:34<swaj>Leo: you can update the credit card you have on file at any time, and it removes the old one.
18:34<Kyh>Leo: uh, if it's already gone through then it's paid.. I assume your brank/CC company would call your mum if it looks dodgy
18:34<Leo>beucause i needed to start seting up the server today.
18:34<@caker>ifit: when you change backend node states, it may take a minute to reflect on the manager
18:34-!-eyepulp [] has quit [Quit: eyepulp]
18:34<@caker>(or when they change themselves)
18:35<Leo>actually the question is
18:35<Leo>can i cancel the charge and use another credit card.. from another parent.. that i have the photo id copy and credit card photo?
18:35<Leo>or can i send my photo id proving shes my mother. ?
18:36*swaj confused
18:36<Kyh>Leo: if it's already been charged to that CC, I don't think you can cancel it.. but if it's already gone through, then it's paid for, right?
18:36<Leo>its paid
18:36<Leo>but linode asks
18:36<Leo>some personal documents
18:36<Leo>from the person CC
18:36<linbot>IRC supports complete sentences. Less <CR> more content, please.
18:36<ifit>Caker: I didn't know if there was some sort of service on your side that you could cyle.
18:36<Leo>In regards to this order, we will need a signed authorization from the credit card
18:37*Kyh not sure if lregit or not
18:37<Leo>you guys must be old users so i dont know if you had to pass by this
18:37-!-vodka [] has joined #linode
18:37<squircle>Leo: did Linode send you this or did your bank
18:38<bob2>Leo, file a ticket
18:38<@ericoc>Leo: don't worry about it! feel free to log in :) welcome to linode
18:38<squircle>Leo: because I signed up using one of my parents' credit cards with my name and it worked flawlessly
18:38<@ericoc>Leo: i've activated your account, you can ignore that e-mail and get started
18:38<Leo>i cant really open a ticket cause my account is not verified so i cant login
18:38<Leo>Thanks ...
18:39<@ericoc>no problem
18:39<Leo>Thanks once again. Impressed rs.
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19:00<dwfreed>heckman: from my freebsd fanboi friend: (he's not really that bad, but I like to make fun of him sometimes
19:02<@heckman>I know I saw :p
19:02<swaj>FreeBSD as a PV'ed domU doesn't work very well
19:02<swaj>at all
19:03<Solver>"The Justice Department said in a statement said that Kim Dotcom, 37, and three other employees were arrested Thursday in New Zealand at the request of U.S. officials."
19:03<Solver>I want a name as cool as Kim Dotcom
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19:24<mbreslin>Solver: not right now you don't
19:24-!-Kamilion [] has quit [Quit: I am kamilion. But you knew that, didn't you.]
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19:26<dzho>you could probably get it for cheap, though
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19:29<Takyoji>This just in:
19:29<richarddd>guys how do i update my php fpm 5.3.2 to 5.3.9 on ubuntu??
19:29<Takyoji> *
19:29<Solver>mbreslin: hehe yeah I was thinking that :)
19:30<Takyoji>"sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade"?
19:30<Takyoji>because if not that, you don't have any other simple option
19:30<richarddd>@Takyoji i did that earlier, version shows 5.3.2 still
19:31<GLaDOSDan>We just have to pray that none of these goverment sites are hosted in the fremont datacenter
19:31<GLaDOSDan>I hear more than 1 packet/day causes power failures
19:31<richarddd>PHP Version 5.3.2-1ubuntu4.7ppa5~lucid1
19:32<bob2>richarddd, why do you want that
19:32<swaj>he's running the PHP from the brian mercer PPA which is no longer updated
19:32<swaj>need to switch PPA's for lucid
19:32<bob2>ha ha ha ha
19:32<richarddd>sry lol
19:33<swaj>should be using that PPA instead of the brian mercer one
19:33<richarddd>bugger, how to switch? and keep my current php settings
19:34<swaj>back up your config, remove PHP, then switch PPA's and re-add it
19:34<Takyoji>You just add it
19:34<Takyoji>or that
19:34<bob2>surely you use etckeeper
19:34<bob2>also, upgrades don't blow away config
19:34<bob2>that's iirc a grave bug
19:34<richarddd>didnt install it yet
19:34<richarddd>how do i remove the incorrect ppa for a start?
19:34-!-jarrod24 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:34<swaj>you can try to just remove the brian mercer PPA from your sources.list
19:34<swaj>and add the other one
19:35<swaj>then do an update && upgrade
19:35<swaj>see if it works
19:35<bob2>on your staging server of course!
19:35<richarddd>lol ya...right
19:36<richarddd>so when i remove that ppa, add the new one, and update, the different php will install?
19:36-!-vodka [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:36<swaj>yeah I think they have the same package names
19:36<swaj>so it *should*
19:36<swaj>no guarantees
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19:37<richarddd>my sources list, i dont see it anywhere
19:38<@heckman>PPAs aren't stored there
19:38<@heckman>They are somewhere under /etc/apt (/etc/apt/sources.d ?)
19:38<richarddd>theres 1 file in there, called brianmercer-php-lucid.list
19:38<swaj>remove it
19:39<@heckman>bob2: hrm, that does make more sense now that you say it
19:39<richarddd>done! now?
19:39<swaj>then "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:nginx/php5"
19:39<swaj>sudo apt-get update, then sudo apt-get upgrade
19:41-!-Tigeda [] has quit [Quit: Tigeda]
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19:41<richarddd>seems to all be well!
19:41<richarddd>PHP Version 5.3.5-1ubuntu7.2ppa1~lucid
19:42<swaj>strange that ppa has 5.3.8 listed
19:43<richarddd>hmm yes :s
19:43<swaj>ask MTecknology, it's his PPA :P
19:44<richarddd>uh, he hates me
19:44<swaj>he hates everyone
19:44<@akerl>lulz PPAs
19:44<rnowak>I hate him, it balances out as I have a lot of hate to give
19:44<@akerl>AUR ftw
19:44<rnowak>LULZ PPAs and AURs
19:44<swaj>AUR is no better than PPA's
19:44<@akerl>rnowak: Don't hate on the AUR :)
19:44-!-KyleXY [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:45<rnowak>akerl: I will hate on any form of what AURs and PPAs represent
19:45<richarddd>anyone know a good security "todo" list with a ubuntu install? for stupid people
19:45<rnowak>richarddd: ditch it and install debian
19:45*akerl kids
19:45<swaj>!library security
19:45<@akerl>richarddd: Strong auth
19:45<linbot>swaj: 1. Linux Security Basics - | 2. Secure Communications with OpenVPN on CentOS 5 - | 3. Securing Servers with SSL -
19:45<swaj>read Linux Security Basics :)
19:45<richarddd>rnowak, i asked on here before installing my vps what's the difference between the two, everyone said they're very similar >_<
19:46<swaj>they are, but rnowak (and me, to) is very biased toward Debian :P
19:46<rnowak>I am not biased, JUST STATING PURE TRUTH AND FACT
19:47<rnowak>richarddd: before you do something silly, I am mostly kidding... except not really, but a bit, maybe
19:47<linbot>Today is Debian Appreciation Day! \o/
19:48<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:48<linbot>Bacon is what makes food good!
19:48<swaj>so akerl, since arch = rolling release, do you guys periodically pacman -Syu the base image and update it?
19:48<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:48<Solver>I am indifferent to bacon
19:48<rnowak>indifferent to bacon? HOLD THE PRESSES
19:48<rnowak>what did he just say?
19:48<Solver> is returning an internal server error for me - doh
19:48-!-nehalem [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:48<@akerl>swaj: We updated it recently when the base system changed up, but it's not really needed
19:48<Solver>yes I am the only one who cares not for bacon
19:49<Solver>my wife and daughter love it (like all of the other 7 billion of you)
19:49<@akerl>Since you can just -Syu your way to perfectly up to date
19:49<richarddd>for slow people:
19:49<Solver>rnowak: :)
19:49<rnowak>Solver: I don't know who to call to have you detained... CDC? a looney bin?
19:50<Solver>rnowak: looney bin will be fine, thanks :)
19:50<rnowak>I'll arrange for soft nice walls, and a jacket that will make you hug yourself all day and night long
19:50<Solver>niice. I'm sure it will be nice and cosy
19:50*Solver proceeds to quack like a pig
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19:57<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:57<SirSquidness>Solver: the number is much less than 7 billion; you need to take in to account religions which forbid bacon, and countries which don't have ample supplies of bacon
19:57<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:57<bob2>we have the technology to drop bacon-aid-packages from space now
19:58-!-KyleXY [] has joined #linode
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19:59<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
19:59<rnowak>bacon has no limits, people go against their religions/traditions for it on a daily basis
19:59-!-stafamus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:00<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
20:00<Kyh>mm bacon
20:00-!-EriksLV [~EriksLV@] has joined #linode
20:00<Kyh>moar bacon for me!
20:01<w7u64xi7>0 linux knowledge here ... is it possible to secure vps from linode?
20:01-!-hfb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:01<squircle>!library security
20:01<linbot>squircle: 1. Linux Security Basics - | 2. Secure Communications with OpenVPN on CentOS 5 - | 3. Securing Servers with SSL -
20:01<bob2>what does that mean
20:01<squircle>read that ^^
20:02<Kyh>w7u64xi7: of course it's possible
20:02<rnowak>I have secured my linode from Solver
20:02<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
20:02<rnowak>it requires advance knowledge of bacon to get in
20:02-!-richarddd [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:03<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
20:03<dzho>what about retarded knowledge of bacon?
20:03<Kyh>rnowak: what about cake?
20:03<w7u64xi7>bob2, i mean i do not know much in linux except very few
20:03<rnowak>Kyh: second layer of security
20:03<Kyh>The cake is a lie, tho
20:03<bob2>redundant array of expensive bacon
20:03<w7u64xi7>i've been adised to use knownhost but goggle reporting that linode is far better
20:04<bob2>knowhost is a managed vps provider
20:04<bob2>so they're not comparable
20:04<w7u64xi7>but main problems is linux knowledge
20:04<dzho>w7u64xi7: if you know nothing of linux, linode may not be for you, unless you're willing and able to learn a good deal
20:05<dzho>w7u64xi7: it can be done, but it will take time and effort
20:05<w7u64xi7>dzho, i know that there are helpful people around but i can not find a starting point and i did explored library at linode and lost
20:05-!-dwfreed [] has quit [Quit: Changing server]
20:05<swaj>linode's service and reliability are very good, however they do not manage your nodes for you. Security is your problem :)
20:05-!-dwfreed [] has joined #linode
20:05<bob2>if you're not willing to put a lot of work into learning to be a sysadmin, you probably want a managed provider
20:06<dzho>which gets us back to knownhost
20:07<w7u64xi7>yes i understand but the good of the servers at linode is far better as far as i've read so far
20:08<w7u64xi7>servers for linode is better especially using xen
20:08-!-userx_ [] has joined #linode
20:08<w7u64xi7>knownhost using virtuzzo
20:08<w7u64xi7>i am not comparing
20:09<w7u64xi7>i am asking advise
20:09<w7u64xi7>also knownhost is expensive
20:09<dzho>it is expensive because you pay them to manage the software
20:09<dzho>if you do it yourself, you don't pay as much, but then, you have to do it yourself
20:11<dzho>we cannot know how willing you are to do the work, and how capable, and how much of a hurry you are in, and what you think your time is worth, and so on, so we cannot advise one course or another.
20:11<swaj>my advice is either a) invest time and energy into becoming a competent sysadmin, or b) find a fully-managed provider that will take care of those details for you.
20:13<w7u64xi7>dzho, i've about 2 months to spend with 3 hours per day for this ... which courses you would advise?
20:13-!-aunt_jemima [~aunt_jemi@] has quit [Quit: aunt_jemima]
20:13<w7u64xi7>swaj, you mean o start with managed then go in my own?
20:17<Kyh>omg, someone ported vim to ios
20:20<bob2>use a managed hosting provider then
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20:34*MTecknology was pinged
20:34<linbot>New news from forums: Anyone got Trixbox running? in General Discussion <>
20:34<MTecknology>swaj: hi
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20:36<MTecknology>swaj: I don't hate the guy, i just hate is attitude; i don't care if i'm gonna get hacked, don't help me make it better, just give me the copy/paste answer to the issue i'm having, i don't care if it makes it more broken
20:38<Kyh>MTecknology: ugh, which guy?
20:39<EugeneKay>I'm guessing "w7u64xi7"
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20:48<squircle>is there any reason why I shouldn't use opensuse on my linode? (security stuff or anything?)
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20:50<rnowak>there's two
20:51<squircle>go on...
20:51<rnowak>1. it is opensuse, 2. it isn't debian
20:51<squircle>I see
20:51<rnowak>you did say "or anything"!
20:51<squircle>very true
20:54<squircle>is there any reason I should pick debian over opensuse or ubuntu?
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20:54<rnowak>one main reason
20:54<squircle>and, specifically, stable or testing?
20:55<squircle>let me guess: "because it's debian"?
20:55<rnowak>you got that straight
20:55<squircle>can you provide me any concrete, legitimate reason why I should choose debian?
20:55<rnowak>truth and facts aside... if you wanna run opensuse... run opensuse
20:56<squircle>i don't even know what to do anymore... opensuse was the first distro I ever tried, and i used it for a while, and then i installed ubuntu on my linode and it spectacularly died a few days ago, and...
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20:56<squircle>i just want it to work!
20:56*squircle sobs
20:56<rnowak>I have the cure for you!
20:56<rnowak>yep, you guessed it!
20:56<squircle>Debian! :D
20:57<rnowak>!debian \o/
20:57<linbot>Today is Debian Appreciation Day! \o/
20:58<rnowak>My debian pr campaign mostly involves propaganda, and the pure truth and facts that it is superior.
20:59<squircle>is debian testing "stable enough" for a production server/does it receive security updates?
20:59<squircle>(I realize one is opinion, one is fact)
20:59<@heckman>It receives them in due time, Stable takes priority
20:59<rnowak>the closer testing gets to freeze, the better it gets, the closer it gets to release after testing the better it gets... but ^
21:00<rnowak>after freezing *
21:00<rnowak>if you want no guarantees, just run sid or arch
21:01<@akerl>Did somebody say Arch!?
21:02<rnowak>I havn't seen anything
21:02*akerl goes back into hibernation
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21:14<EugeneKay>I'm a big fan of Roman design. Their use of the arch is particularly beautiful.
21:14*EugeneKay ducks
21:15*heckman cats
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21:16<JDLSpeedy>Linode Ops: What is your take on SOPA/PIPA?
21:17<@heckman>Same stance as every other reasonable person who uses the internet. :)
21:18-!-EriksLV [~EriksLV@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:18<@heckman>We're not for SOPA/PIPA.
21:19<JDLSpeedy>Thank you :-)
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21:20<Kyh>If someone posted something on the forums, couldget shut down
21:23<rnowak>brb posting urmom's pictures
21:24*Kyh gets rnowak's linodes taken down
21:24<rnowak>takedowned *
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21:25*Solver was just being silly
21:25<swaj>caker's behind in kernels :P
21:25<rnowak>oh, thanks for clarifying, didn't notice, Solver :)
21:25<swaj>I want 3.2.1, and I don't wanna compile it myself :P
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21:26<chesty>heckman: but you're with godaddy
21:27<chesty>the royal you
21:27<dwfreed>You find me a registrar that has DNSSEC and IPv6 glue for $10/year for .com and .net, and I'll consider transferring
21:27<dwfreed>Already checked
21:28<SirSquidness><@heckman> whois <-- Who is Tim Heckman? I dunno, but I've heard he's a pretty cool guy
21:28<chesty>sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your principles
21:29<@heckman>But my principles in school were always mean
21:29*heckman poker face
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21:30<rnowak>principles in special schools need to be
21:30<chesty>for a moment I thought I messed up and should have used principal instead
21:30<chesty>maybe i did, I'm confused
21:30<@heckman>No you used the right one.
21:30<@heckman>I was just messing around.
21:30<rnowak>a principal, is that like a pal with a principle?
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21:32<Solver>just one principle?
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21:35<swaj>for the record, does .com's for like $7.68/year and they support DNSSEC and IPV6
21:35<chesty>what a joke
21:35<Solver>chesty: and by 'OLD' you mean it has been around since yesterday right? :)
21:36<psandin>it's the internet, old is relative, and by relative I mean longer than about 60 seconds
21:36<chesty>by OLD i mean I saw it yesterday, and if I've seen it, it's OLD, doesn't matter if nobody else has seen it yet
21:36<Solver>ok thanks for clarifying :)
21:37<rnowak>your face is old
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21:37<chesty>it's wise
21:37<rnowak>implies I've seen it, you think about that for a minute
21:37<Solver>yes yes it is
21:37<chesty>all knowing
21:38<chesty>my face is on the internet next to my name which is on my irc client
21:45<rnowak>chesty: is that you reading the newspaper?
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21:53<chesty>rnowak: nope
21:53<rnowak>oh ok
21:53<chesty>!heckman is not me either
21:53<linbot>Heck, man, what do I look like, a psëudøviking?
21:57<pharaun>while i was gone did this world turn upside down? :p
21:57<pharaun>heckman: oh you still got the urmad
21:58<pharaun>yup :)
21:58<pharaun>when did ya get that one anyway
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22:33*akerl waves to stan_theman
22:33<stan_theman>hi akerl
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23:13<linbot>I'm leaving Linode for the cloud!
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23:44<CaptObviousman>so, what's this cloud thing I keep hearing about
23:44<pharaun>its rainy thing
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23:45<Natetronn>I love learning new things and I liked Linode when I used it in the past though, there is always that "thing," call it inexperience if you will. I'm always questioning myself and if I did something right or wrong. With that said, at what point did you feel confident enough to launch a production website using Linode?
23:45<CaptObviousman>so why are people leaving linode for rain?
23:46<CaptObviousman>that doesn't make sense
23:46<CaptObviousman>do they want it to rain in the DC?
23:46<CaptObviousman>cause that almost happened the other day in Dallas =)
23:46<@heckman>Natetronn: I don't think it's about feeling confident about launching, but rather feeling confident that you can work through any hiccups that may arise.
23:47<CaptObviousman>Natetronn: if you absolutely positively have to be 100% secure, then your server will never be ready
23:47<CaptObviousman>the only secure computer is one that is unplugged from the wall
23:47-!-stan_theman [] has joined #linode
23:47<CaptObviousman>that being said, once you've locked down the box with a reasonable firewall, have verified that the remaining services you DO leave open ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY have to be there (e.g. remove crap you don't use)
23:48<CaptObviousman>and you've verified those services are all up to date
23:48-!-EricM [] has joined #linode
23:48<CaptObviousman>then that's a great start
23:48<CaptObviousman>you can go a step or two further and move essential services like ssh to another port (pick something with 5 digits)
23:48<@heckman>^that's terrible advice
23:48*CaptObviousman eyes
23:48<@heckman>Well not terrible..
23:48<CaptObviousman>why is it terrible advice?
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23:49<@heckman>If it's above port 1024 then a non-root user could start a service that listens on that port.
23:49<@akerl>CaptObviousman: That's security by obscurity
23:49<@akerl>One nmap command will remove any benefit you may have gained by switching ports
23:49<@heckman>Most bots don't check those ports tho, so it helps keep brute force attempts down.
23:49<@heckman>But doesn't boost security.
23:50<@heckman>I would say going above 1024 actually makes you less secure
23:50<CaptObviousman>akerl: you're absolutely right
23:50<CaptObviousman>but it cuts down on the people scanning entire B blocks looking for an open port 22
23:50<CaptObviousman>which is where I imagine 90% of my walk-ins come from
23:50<Natetronn>I understand you can't ever be secure enough, just look at what's going on after the MegaUpload take down. Though, it's more about "not knowing what I don't know" if that makes sense.
23:51<CaptObviousman>heckman: if sshd is running on port x (x > 1024), then how can another process take that port over from it
23:51<@akerl>CaptObviousman: If a bot scanning port 22 has *any* chance of brute forcing your auth, you've already lost
23:51<@heckman>If someone were able to cause the OpenSSH daemon to fall over, they could.
23:51<CaptObviousman>ahh, out comes the pedantism because I challenged your assertion
23:52*pharaun challenges the challenged assertion of challenge
23:52<CaptObviousman>I hadn't gotten to the brute force prevention yet
23:52<CaptObviousman>got side-tracked
23:52<CaptObviousman>heckman: your point is valid
23:52<pharaun>i set my ssh to be ssh2 only, key login only, a few other items i forgot
23:52<CaptObviousman>so something [1-1023] not port 22
23:53<@akerl>? why.
23:53<CaptObviousman>< CaptObviousman> but it cuts down on the people scanning entire B blocks looking for an open port 22
23:53<pharaun>but often i just firewall redirect it to >1024 just so i don't have to sift through megabytes large logs with random logging attempts
23:53<pharaun>they're not going to break my ssh unless there's a 0-day exploit anyway
23:53<CaptObviousman>I use a nifty little iptables ruleset which blacklists IPs after a few failed attempts
23:53<pharaun>i just get tired of flushing those fat ssh deny log
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23:53<@akerl>There are two relevant types of attackers: A) roving bots, who should have 0 chance of passing auth anyway, so who cares, and B) targetted attackers, who won't be fooled by a changed port
23:54<rnowak>pharaun: fwknop, really. Whenever I see someone recommending moving ports, I'll just spam with fwknop
23:54<pharaun>rnowak: fwknop?
23:54<@heckman>fwknop is just a pain.
23:54<@heckman>Not worth the effort tbh
23:54<pharaun>rnowak: heh
23:54<rnowak>it will protect against any 0-day exploits
23:55<rnowak>which is what you should be afraid of, not someone flooding your logs
23:55<@akerl>heckman is a hater. Overdone Security ftw
23:55<@heckman>No I'm not. Just a pain when you aren't always connecting from the same system
23:55<pharaun>rnowak: oh nice! <3
23:55<@heckman>I use my phone fairly often, and that would suck.
23:55<@akerl>heckman: fwknop has an iphone knock client now
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23:55<rnowak>heckman: there's an iphone and android client
23:56<rnowak>the android one hooks into connectbot's connect intent
23:56<pharaun>rnowak: this is relevant to my interests
23:56<@heckman>Only client I found was not Open Source.
23:56<@heckman>Unless I missed the link to it.
23:56<rnowak>heckman: look in the source download
23:56<rnowak>of fwknop itself
23:57<pharaun>rnowak: this is nice, i probably should look into moving my sshd back to 22 and deploying fwknop
23:57<@heckman>The Android source is in the fwknop source?
23:57<rnowak>and iphone
23:58<rnowak>pharaun: I'm too lazy. But as always, do what I say, not what I do
23:58<@heckman>Ugh, cba to compile the app
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23:59<rnowak>you wanted open source, you have it
23:59<pharaun>rnowak: heh yeah, i just dont want to deal with spam in my logs and etc, this'll work
---Logclosed Fri Jan 20 00:00:02 2012