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#linode IRC Logs for 2012-05-17

---Logopened Thu May 17 00:00:23 2012
---Daychanged Thu May 17 2012
00:00<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
00:00<Kyhwana>mmm, bacon
00:03-!-Kura [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:07<@heckman>Makes me rage when companies don't handle abuse complaints.
00:07<jeremyb>HoopyCat: linbot's url doesn't seem to work for me...
00:07<@heckman>jeremyb: IPv6 only
00:07<Kyhwana>heckman: whos this?
00:07<jeremyb>oh, huh
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00:07<Kyhwana>jeremyb: you have insuficcient internets, call your ISP to get more
00:07<@heckman>123systems (?) which uses IPv4 space redelgated to them from Limestone Networks
00:07-!-triplei [] has joined #linode
00:08<@heckman>Limestone also has a PTR record on their core router, that doesn't have matching forward DNS...ragex2
00:08<purrdeta>heckman: AT&T has a PTR record on one of their routers that is literally "ATT"
00:08<@heckman>I've seen a PTR record with a '!' in it.
00:09<chesty>i've seen one with ';rm -rf /; in it
00:09<EugeneKay>You haven't lived until you've made a self-referential PTR
00:09<@heckman>I'm too OCD about things to have a PTR that doesn't match forward DNS
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00:10<Peng>chesty: That's horrible. I want to do it.
00:10<EugeneKay>gethostbyname("") should return in most implementations
00:11<EugeneKay>No, that can't be right. It's been a while since I've done this.
00:11<Kyhwana>chesty: and DROP TABLES in em?
00:11<Kyhwana>That'd be pretty funny
00:11<chesty>that's my sons name
00:11<nenolod>123systems lol
00:12<@heckman>A wild nenolod appears.
00:13<nenolod>EugeneKay: it will, but you should use getaddrinfo() instead.
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00:14<nenolod>heckman: i've noticed that "budget" e.g. $10/year omg!!!! vps companies tend to either be way lax on abuse or use abuse as an excuse to clear nodes for more customers
00:15<nenolod>in the first form, and you might say i am cynical, but i think it is because they are running a front for other things
00:15<nenolod>123systems is very much on the first side of things
00:16<XReaper>heckman: 3.2.1 decided it was hungry and pretty much made my linode kill itself last night :P
00:17<XReaper>(i know "i told you so" and all...)
00:18<@heckman>define hungry
00:18<EugeneKay>$ dig aaaa +short $(dig -x 2001:470:1:24f::1337:1 +short) || 2001:470:1:24f::1337:1
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00:20<XReaper> towards the middle. did what pengs did
00:20<EugeneKay>That still doesn't look like I did it right.
00:21<XReaper>but perfectly responsive at 12.00 load
00:21<XReaper>which made the host show 'low' as load :P
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00:38<nenolod>XReaper: the control panel is discussing cpu load, 12.0 load may be due to iowait e.g. swapping pages in virtual memory
00:39<XReaper>mmm, with my syslog... cpu stall
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00:39<XReaper>the panel side was sitting at 200% and rising by the time i rebooted into latest 3 :P
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01:32<Katana>[sudo] password for heckman:
01:33<Katana>Uploading ~/
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01:58<Hamled>I realize this is not necessarily the best place to ask this, but I was wondering if anyone could help me get ssh agent forwarding working with my Linode machine? I'm sshing from a windows machine using Pageant as the agent, and my Linode is running Ubuntu 10.04
01:59<rnowak>Hamled: what have you done so far?
01:59<Hamled>Well, after searching around I found config settings for sshd, and I explicitly set AllowAgentForwarding to yes
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01:59<rnowak>also, a word of warning, the box you are forwarding through needs to be trusted
02:00<Hamled>trusted in what sense
02:00<rnowak>did you enable agent forwarding in putty?
02:00<Hamled>in a technical sense, like a configuration
02:00<rnowak>Hamled: trusted in that root could hijack your session
02:00<Hamled>oh yeah
02:00<Hamled>I'm root
02:00<Hamled>I trust it enough I guess
02:00<rnowak>so you enabled agent forwarding in putty?
02:01<Hamled>y'know, now that I think about it, I'm using a fairly non-standard putty setup
02:01<Hamled>yeah, but I'm gonna try running generic putty, and not via any other app
02:01<rnowak>and you're providing the flag for ssh on the box you're trying to use agent forwarding on?
02:01<Hamled>I thought that was an alternative to setting the config value?
02:02<Hamled>or do you mean I have to do ssh -A when I target another machine
02:02<rnowak>well, give it a try and see what goes
02:02<rnowak>ssh -A user@machine
02:02<Hamled>just tried that and it still gives Permission denied (publickey).
02:03<rnowak>see if anything got added to putty's log
02:03<Hamled>and I have it set in ~/.ssh/config
02:03<rnowak>I wasn't aware there was a global setting, thought it was per-host and -A explicitly, but alright
02:04<Hamled>I had thought that turning on agent forwarding with ssh was only necessary on machines that you were sshing from where you expected to ssh again from that session
02:04<rnowak>well, if you're providing the flag, or configuration option to ssh, the key is loaded in pageant, and the forwarding is allowed in putty -- it should work
02:05<Hamled>so like, I would turn it on with Putty but not the second machine (If I was only going to connect to a third box)
02:05<rnowak>you only need to provide the flag to indicate that you want to use agent forwarding, not enable it any other way
02:05<rnowak>(or configuration option)
02:07<rnowak>(if you enable it in any other way, you'd enabling it the same way for that agent like you do for pageant by ticking the box in putty)
02:11<Hamled>yeah I dunno, I seem to have it on in every way possible, I've tried using -A with putty explicitly (the docs say this is the same as ssh -A)
02:11<Hamled>I think I'll have to ask in #ssh on freenode or something where they can direct me to some detailed logs
02:11<rnowak>it isn't -- though
02:12<rnowak>whatever, good luck!
02:12<Hamled>why isn't it the same
02:15<Hamled>thanks for the assistance
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02:39<Hamled>I guess it turns out I wasn't supposed to be running ssh-agent as well on the remote machine
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02:47<woozbly>i am a newb to servber management and linux in general :D
02:48*dcraig tickles woozbly around a bit with a large shovelnose sturgeon
02:48<EugeneKay>Does anybody know of a (downloadable/offline) app to generate passphrases from a dictionary? Similar to this, but not JS.
02:48<woozbly>so i want to install PHP 5.4.3 from source, i read some tuts, saw that there are 3 commands basically. ./configure --with-some-options , make , make install
02:48<woozbly>first of all, what is ./configure meant to do ? does it just finds dependencies and make sure that those dependencies are installed on my system ?
02:48<EugeneKay>woozbly - that's technically true, but I would really recommend sticking with a version that has been packaged for your distribution.
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02:49<bob2>yeah, don't install php from source
02:49<EugeneKay>woozbly - If you look around there are people who provide binary packages of the latest dev version, built with the right(ish) set of options, and including the modules you'll need for your webserver(mod_php if you're doing Apache, for example)
02:49<woozbly>EugeneKay: 1. i don't think that version is available in package manager. 2. i wanna learn this thing (installing from source) cuz i think it will make me better on linux to some extent :)
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02:49<bob2>classic newbie mistake
02:50<woozbly>mistake :S
02:50<EugeneKay>woozbly - knowing how to do it is a good thing, but I live under the assumption that the guy who built the rpm/deb knows a lot more about --what --config --options are needed than I
02:51<woozbly>that's true :)
02:51<woozbly>even ruby 1.9.3 is not available in package manager
02:51<woozbly>so i thought it would be a good thing to learn installing both fromsource
02:51<woozbly>i installed apache, mysql, git, from apt-0get
02:51<EugeneKay>From the Official repos, sure. There are unofficial repos.
02:52<dcraig>why do you need 5.4.3?
02:52<EugeneKay>This appears to be one that provides lots of packages for Debian, and are listed as being Ubuntu-compatible-ish.
02:52<dcraig>because the numbers count backwards?
02:52<EugeneKay>I'm sure there are other Ubuntu-specific repos available. Google about, ask the Ubuntu forums, etc.
02:53<EugeneKay>dcraig - 5.4.3 "fixes" the ?-s vulnerability
02:53<woozbly>my codebase uses 5.4.1 features, and .2 and .3 fixes some critical bugs
02:53<bob2>what os are you using
02:53<woozbly>i can google and do it maybe, but let me learn the hard way this time :D
02:53<EugeneKay>Go for it if you really want to. It'll all end in tears.
02:54<bob2>don't build php from source
02:54<dcraig>I'd change my codebase! :p
02:54<bob2>php is a big enough catastrophe without you failing to apply security fixes
02:54<woozbly>ubuntu 12.04 bib
02:54<bob2>use whatever version of php ubuntu has then
02:54<woozbly>fine, i will install from unofficial repo
02:54<woozbly>it has 5.3.10
02:54<bob2>writing code that depends on features not in an OS that shipped /last month/ is antisocial
02:55<bob2>and if you have to ask, you shouldn't build php
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02:55<woozbly>it depends on features not in an OS ? like ?
02:55<dcraig>in looking at the 5.4.1 changelog, I can't find any new features
02:55<woozbly>ok, i won't build. but i will atleast try building ruby 1.9.3 :)
02:55<bob2>dcraig, TRAITS
02:55<woozbly>one seconds
02:55<bob2>which are copypasta at compile ti,me
02:56<chesty>building something from source is fun the first time, but keeping it up to date and recompiling sucks XReapers
02:57<dcraig>oh, their changelog is hard to read
02:57<woozbly>ah, so you guys always use package manager ?
02:57<dcraig>they list 5.4.1, 5.3.11, and then 5.4.0
02:57<chesty>for things that update themselves, not always, like wordpress for example
02:58<dcraig>woozbly, I think you should always use the package manager if at all possible
02:58<EugeneKay>I think I've built 4 packages from source in the past year.... qrencode, and ii, which don't have binaries distributed; Subsonic, which I stripped the "licensing" code out of(GPLolo), and a java dummy rpm which I had to slap together myself because tomcat6 is a pile of horsecrap.
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02:59<EugeneKay>Everything else on all of my systems(abotu 2 dozen of them) is from the repos.
02:59<woozbly>although for my knowledge, just telll me somethings
03:00<woozbly>./configure checks for dependencies anything else ?
03:00<EugeneKay>It does all of the sanity checks, usually.
03:00<woozbly>ok. make compiles code into a binary executable ?
03:00<chesty>and not all repos are of the same quality, if a repo never gets updated it's almost as bad as installing from source
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03:01<woozbly>EugeneKay: and make install moves the bin file along with docs and other files to proper location ?
03:01<dcraig>sometimes people put cute jokes in configure scripts
03:01<EugeneKay>Copies, yes.
03:01<dcraig>and you'll be missing out on them if you use the package manager
03:01<chesty>dcraig: execpt for apt, which has super cow powers
03:02<woozbly>then i guess we do make clean && make distclean to cleanm not-required files
03:02<woozbly>but the problem is, how does one then upgrade/remove ?
03:02<chesty>removing is hard, upgrading isn't that bad, you just recompile and reinstall
03:02<dcraig>get the new source and recompile
03:03<woozbly>if i install ruby 1.9.3 form source, and in 3-4 months ruby 2.0.0 is released (which it will) - then i have no idea how to upgrade. or if i switch form my ruby libs to JS libs, then i might want to remove ruby completely.
03:03<dcraig>sometimes you'll forget the special things you typed after ./configure
03:03<dcraig>but those are often saved for you in config.log
03:03<dcraig>you upgrade by essentially repeating the process you used to install 1.9.3
03:03<woozbly>dcraig: config.log in the same folder in which ./configure exists ?
03:04<dcraig>I'd assume so
03:04<woozbly>got it, and remove ?
03:04<woozbly>i heard there is make remove, but Makefile of for exmaple PHP did not have and remove: (target, if thats what you call it)
03:04<dcraig>the "make install" thing probably put stuff somewhere
03:04<chesty>use stow
03:04<dcraig>so you could go delete that stuff along with all your source files
03:04<woozbly>yah, i don't know all directories where it moved/copied files :D
03:04<woozbly>let me google stow
03:05<chesty>apt-cache show stow
03:05<dcraig>certainly you should compile stow from source...
03:05<chesty>i noticed the latest debian testing isn't showing descriptions for apt-cache show
03:06<woozbly>compile stow from source ? ok.
03:06<woozbly>i will do some research work on these, thanks :)
03:06<dcraig>I was joking! don't do that
03:07<woozbly>yes, i read on checkinstall. seems great :)
03:07<woozbly>but i was wondering what if i dont use checkinstall
03:07<woozbly>and auto-apt
03:07<woozbly>or apt-auto, w/e it was, hehe
03:07<dopey_>checkinstall changes it from outright suicidal to just massive depression.
03:10<woozbly>if i forget some options (to ./configure), and make && make install, i can't enable those options l;ater ?
03:10<woozbly>and then make*
03:11<dcraig>you can type the right ./configure command, then do make and make install
03:11<woozbly>what if i forget to pass some options to ./configure and then l;ater while coding i find that some option is not available ?
03:11<woozbly>i can't enable then ?
03:11<dcraig>you have to reconfigure and recompile
03:12<woozbly>oh ouch
03:12<dcraig>shouldn't take too long
03:12<woozbly>so if i forget 10 options, then i might end up doing it 10 times
03:12<woozbly>everytime finding out that i missed 1 option
03:12<dcraig>you could make a list of all the options you've forgotten, and only redo things once you've accumulated quite a few of them
03:12<dcraig>sorta like people make grocery lists and go shopping once per week instead of once per meal
03:13<woozbly>so is that the only reason why building from source is considered bad ? or removal is another reason ?
03:13<dcraig>package managers update everything on your system with just a few commands
03:14<dcraig>if you start compiling all these things from source, you now have to keep track of security vulnerabilities and update them all manually
03:14<dcraig>so instead of typing two commands to update everything on your system, now you're typing 40 commands
03:14<dcraig>or something
03:14<thekev>I have a scheduled maint reboot for may 26. Can I reboot it myself before then and avoid the forced reload?
03:15<thekev>also dcraig is on point. this is why my policy to developers is "you must justify the bleeding-edge library you want, else I'm using the package maintainer's version"
03:15<dcraig>thekev, the one time that's happened to me, I got an email that told me I could go ahead and do it anytime
03:15<dcraig>but maybe their procedures have changed
03:15<bd_>if they're rebooting the host then that won't help
03:16<dcraig>submit a support ticket for a definitive answer
03:16<woozbly>i got it, but 1 thing was kinda unclear - 'keep track of security vulnerabilites' - next version would fix the vulnerabilities, so all you need to do is upgrade, why care about keeping track of them ? or am i missing something ?
03:17<thekev>I have a ticket opened on my behalf for the scheduled maint
03:17<dcraig>so are you going to check once a day to see if a new version has been released?
03:17<dcraig>you need to have a mechanism in place so that you know you need to upgrade
03:17<thekev>I just replied asking if I can avoid their reboot if I do it myself during my own window (prior to the date)
03:17<woozbly>oh lol :D that way, got it
03:17<bd_>woozbly: sometimes vulnerabilities become known before patches are available
03:17<dcraig>maybe subscribe to some sort of php or ruby mailing list
03:17<bd_>and sometimes there are temporary mitigations you can use before the new version is out
03:18<thekev>subscribe to debian-security :)
03:18<woozbly>bd_: but does that relate to the topic ? :)
03:19<bd_>Oh, I see the context now
03:19<woozbly>but i get dcraig's point now
03:19<bd_>if you compile everything from source
03:19<thekev>'re running gentoo
03:19<bd_>it's super easy to lose track of everything you've compiled and installed from source
03:19<bd_>(unless you have a package manager to keep track of it for you)
03:19<thekev>auto-apt is handy
03:20<woozbly>got it
03:22<bd_>thekev: fwiw I just got a reply to my ticket saying they can set up a migration to a host that's already upgraded. So, effectively, you can define your own maintenance window. Until they run out of spare slots, of course ;)
03:22<thekev>I also recommend if you must compile from source that you use debian package version syntax that allows upstrams to be newer than you, and you actually install a deb
03:23<thekev>e.g. slerp the src, make a deb pkg from it, but let's say the available package version is 1.0.0
03:23<woozbly>so a deb file is basically ./configure (wiuth right options) + make ?
03:23<thekev>set your deb's version to 1.0.1~woozbly1 and an upstream of 1.0.1 will supercede yours
03:24<woozbly>too complex, any article on that ? :D also i am using ubuntu 12.04 (which is a fork of debian sure)
03:24<thekev>(in this example, the available version is 1.0.0 and the src you have is 1.0.1)
03:24<thekev>debian == ubuntu
03:24<thekev>not sure on article. you can apt-get source pkgname
03:25<thekev>um.. man, I'm rusty
03:25<woozbly>is deb file basically ./configure --with-right-options && make ?
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03:26<EugeneKay>'make deb' or similar, if the upstream project likes you. Usually you end up having to write/kang a deb-builder around the built make.
03:26<thekev>a deb calls configure with certain options such as debian-esque --prefix
03:26<thekev>applies patches in some cases
03:26<EugeneKay>Or have they gotten better in recent years? :-p
03:26<dcraig>he's suggesting that you could install 5.4.3 in such a way that the package manager would automatically upgrade you to 5.4.4 (or whatever) once it becomes available
03:27<thekev>yes, right
03:27<woozbly>i understood that much
03:27<thekev>so .debs are built from a tar.gz and a diff
03:27<woozbly>but i definitely di'nt understand the process :D
03:27<thekev>the diff creates a debian/ dir
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03:28<thekev>if you're lucky (and usually very lucky with incremental versions) you can just untar the src, apply the deb pkg's diff, dch -i (editing version string so it's 5.4.4~something1), and make -f debian/rules binary
03:29<thekev>probing around debian repos with a web browser, you'll easily find the original src and a diff
03:30<thekev>but I lack original context to this conversation. a particular package in discussion?
03:30<woozbly>PHP 5.4.3 and RUby 1.9.3
03:30<woozbly>ubutu 12.04
03:31<thekev>you need something newer than last month?!!?! :)
03:31<woozbly>has php 5.3.10 and ruby 1.8.6 in repo
03:31<thekev>oh, ruby 1.9 is garbage anyway
03:31<rnowak>tbh, explaining the relatively complex process of creating .debs to someone completely new to it all is a bit like smashing your face into a wall, just saying
03:31<rnowak>and it is wasted effort
03:32<woozbly>well, the effort wssn't wasted as i am going to dig further with google searches :D
03:32<rnowak>which is not what you should be doing, but if you're having fun, hey
03:32<woozbly>not understanding in the end or failing is a different matter
03:32<woozbly>i am just trying to be good with the tools i am using ;)
03:32<woozbly>also, its the first time i am manaing a server
03:32<rnowak>yeah, hence your priorities should be elsewhere
03:33<woozbly>well, true that :P
03:33<thekev>let's take a simple example. one sec...
03:33<jeremyb>wow, i looked at the times but not the date on that reboot ticket. i thought it was tonight
03:33<thekev>I thought it was last night :)
03:33<rnowak>what? it wasn't a unix timestamp?!
03:33<rnowak>there are no dates!
03:34<thekev>...simple example: gzip
03:35<thekev>1) apt-get build-dep gzip
03:35<woozbly>that installs dependencies of gxzip, right ?
03:36<thekev>get gzip 1.4 source and untar it, e.g.
03:36<thekev>2) get gzip 1.4 source and untar it, e.g.
03:36<rnowak>woozbly: man apt-get
03:37<thekev>3) grab the deb diff from previous version, e.g.
03:37<thekev>4) patch it: cd gzip-1.4; zcat ../gzip_1.3.12-3.2.diff.gz | patch -p1
03:37<thekev>5) give up:
03:37<thekev>Hunk #1 FAILED at 1.
03:37<thekev>1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file lib/
03:38<thekev>wait, why is this .diff patching code. it shoudl be including patches that are applied at build time
03:39<thekev>bad example.
03:39<thekev>but commonly bad
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03:40<thekev>for really core shit like php and ruby, which will have a multitude of upstream vulnerabilities
03:41<thekev>find a well-maintained ppa, or backports
03:41<thekev>let it be someone else's problem
03:42<thekev>for random shit like "oh, I need this new feature from net-snmp 5.4.3 but I have 5.4.2" then this kind of approach usually works
03:42<rnowak>don't try teaching someone that can't crawl to run a marathon, they'll just end up injured, or confused, or both
03:42<thekev>find a ppa
03:43<thekev>what's the magic sauce to cause backports to update without explicitly asking?
03:44<woozbly>i think it'll take some good time to reach your level :D
03:44<thekev>cuz like, I betcha this stuff is in mainstream backports
03:44<thekev>I've only been hacking on debian since slink
03:44<rnowak>to update? none
03:45<thekev>there's an apt conf fu that can make backports upgrade things without explicitly calling for a version
03:45<rnowak>pinning in preferences?
03:46<rnowak>if a package has the version explicitly set in the name of it, then that isn't required
03:46<rnowak>(like with postgresql; postgresql-9.1-blah, in squeeze-backports)
03:46<thekev>er yes, pin
03:46<thekev>Package: *
03:46<thekev>Pin: release a=lucid-backports
03:46<thekev>Pin-Priority: 500
03:48<thekev>postgres does that for good reason
03:48<thekev>you can't just "upgrade" pg databases without migrate
03:49<rnowak>and debian's made it possible to have multiple versions side by side a breeze
03:49<thekev>you better know damn well what you're doing :)
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03:52<woozbly>you guys rock
03:52<woozbly>i am soo noob, damit
03:54<thekev>07:32 < woozbly> also, its the first time i am manaing a server
03:54<thekev>^amen. use maintaned packages
03:54<thekev>maintained too
03:54<woozbly>ok, although going after building for ruby just to try/test/learn once
03:54-!-kr1t1c4l [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:55<woozbly>so that i can atleast tell someone that yes, i have build a software from source, lol :D
03:55<woozbly>last time i tried mongodb and failed so badly, so i end upo installing from package manager
03:55<rnowak>woozbly: anyone moron can read a step by step guide, realising why you shouldn't is a far better thing to brag about
03:55<rnowak>any one *
03:56<rnowak>(well ok, one can be there too -- this morning is great)
03:56<thekev>you could most likely use the tar/diff technique to get ruby 1.9.3 via apt-get build-dep ruby1.9.1
03:56<thekev>...untarring the 1.9.3 source, and applying the 1.9.1 diff
03:56<rnowak>but don't do it
03:56<thekev>yep, don't do it
03:56<thekev>1.9.1 will have upstream holes fixed for you
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03:57<rnowak>woozbly: the important thing to know is that even though you may be on a lesser version, any security fixes will have been applied to the packages in the official repository
03:57<thekev>unless you absolutely, without a doubt, need something that 1.9.3 has that isn't fixed in the ruby1.9.1 package, don't go there
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04:00<thekev>even then, don't go there :)
04:00<thekev>I just noticed a pecularity in ruby1.9.1 package versioning
04:00<thekev>Package: ruby1.9.1
04:01<woozbly>1.9.2 os wjay i use
04:01<woozbly>*is what
04:01<thekev>why is it called ruby1.9.1 if it's 1.9.2. oh sigh. just let apt do it for you.
04:01<woozbly>i don't need 1.9.3 for anything specific, as i said, just wanted to learn installin from source. :)
04:01<woozbly>hehehehe :D
04:02<thekev>keep your prefix defaults, and you should end up with a mess in /usr/local
04:02<thekev>and when you come to your senses, you can just nuke that shit
04:02<thekev>php and ruby are one of those things you probably shouldn't learn by breaking
04:03<rnowak>or install it in your home directory, less to fuck up
04:03<rnowak>and don't be root while doing it
04:03<thekev>did you have all the pre-req libs? what about that strange reference to libjpeg?
04:03<rnowak>never ./configure as root (or make)
04:03<thekev>why does phpinfo() say less things are supported now?
04:03<thekev>...because these things are evil
04:04<woozbly>rnowak: i don't/won't, but why not ? cuz the sofytwares could install useless things anywhere?
04:04<woozbly>but then make install is done as root
04:04<thekev>maybe a fresh version of wget would be a simpler way to pop your cherry
04:05<rnowak>woozbly: because they can do anything, they are normal scripts -- they could be malicious
04:05<thekev>or like, apcalce or ipcalc or something
04:05<woozbly>true, but i guess it could be the same with make install (which requires sudo)
04:05<thekev>fakeroot debian/rules binary
04:06<thekev>not root!
04:06<thekev>until you install the deb
04:06<rnowak>woozbly: no
04:07<woozbly>well, according to the tuts, i read make install requires sudo
04:07<thekev>it does, because it writes to /usr/local or whatnot
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04:07<thekev>but, you don't /have/ to install there
04:07<thekev>if you set your --prefix correctly
04:07<rnowak>of course it does if you will be placing it in global places, but make install cannot be made very malicious if you check what will be installed where
04:07<rnowak>make is a trusted application that you have installed previously
04:09<thekev>...but the makefile is not :)
04:09<woozbly>um, i thought make install would execute the instructions in the install target in the Makefile
04:09<woozbly>that could have something malicious
04:09<thekev>wooz has more clue than (s)he thinks
04:10<rnowak>again, look at how install instructions are defined in the makefile, they cannot be made horribly malicious if you verify the targets
04:11<thekev>I say, go nuts! reinstall when it goes south. gotta learn somehow.
04:11<thekev>from what I gather, wooz just wants to tick-the-box
04:11<thekev>and this isn't production
04:11<thekev>rule #1: don't fuck around in production
04:12<@akerl>thekev: Well then where would I mess with things?
04:13<thekev>depends, do you need real user load to know if you broke it?
04:13<thekev>change dns back to the un-mangled host when you totally hose it
04:13<thekev>lesson learned, cowboy boots shined
04:14<thekev>oh, your ttl was 12 hours?
04:15<thekev>the boss's spurs are sharper than yours
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04:16<woozbly>rnowak: ok
04:18<thekev>do you want to just install from source, or install a deb package you built from source?
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04:21<woozbly>i'll just try instlaling ruby from source, thats' all, will find some way to install PHP form some unofficial repo
04:21<woozbly>from source to learn :P kthx , hehe
04:22<thekev>ok. I was looking for a really simple package that would show an example of how to structure the debian/ dir, but I'm not hitting one quite yet
04:22<thekev>my last place we built all our own code as deb packages, checked into our own repos, promoted by qa from test to prod, etc.
04:22<thekev>I'm looking for something with an install rules file, for super simple, but not finding it
04:23<rnowak>"super simple"
04:23<thekev>for as simple as deb can be :)
04:23-!-TheBadShepperd [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:23<thekev>it's pretty sane once you get it
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04:25<thekev>I rolled dozens of homegrown messes that dropped perl and python scripts via debian/install
04:25-!-undrt [] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
04:26<thekev>(btw, 'last place' == mozy, ran about 5k servers with 65k disks totalling ~100PB - t'was fun)
04:31<thekev>yep, puny
04:31<kenyon>why the plastic on those handles?
04:32<thekev>they come that way
04:32<thekev>better things to do than take a razor blade to the plastic
04:33<kenyon>yeah, especially with that many
04:33<Yaakov>The wanted to keep the Cheetos dust off the handles.
04:33<thekev>I'm not the only one
04:34<thekev>anyone use openstack?
04:34<woozbly>what kind of checks are sanity checks anyway ?
04:35<thekev>is that rhetorical?
04:36<kenyon>wikipedia to the rescue
04:36<woozbly>someone said ./configure does sanity checks, thats why just asked. ok, will read wikipedia article.
04:36<thekev>oh yay, I didn't get a jimmy-wales on wikipedia!
04:36<kenyon>that's not what ./configure does
04:38<thekev>configure will set options/flags for your makefile
04:39<thekev>often testing if certain libraries/headers are present, and disabling if not
04:39<thekev>"make test" is a better example of sanity checking
04:40<thekev>actually, given the wikipedia def of sanity test, I reverse my statement
04:42<linbot>New news from forums: [Newbie] Cloning my repo with stackscript in Web Servers and Web App Development <> || Accounts hacked via customer support interface: any update? in General Discussion <>
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04:44<MaZ->hrm, that thread
04:44<MaZ->he's doing a git push in a stackscript? idgi
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05:32<anomie2>Hi my MySQL has crashed and it won't let me restart it. When I do /etc/init.d/mysql restart it hangs on /etc/init.d/mysql restart
05:32<Kyh>anomie2: what do your logs say
05:33<anomie2>Cant even get into my logs my server is running that slow :/
05:34<anomie2>I'll just reboot
05:35<jeremyb>what's using your resources then if not mysqld?
05:35<jeremyb>try turning off other things?
05:36<anomie2>It's running that slow that I cant get into to test
05:36<anomie2>my cpu is at 200% and my I/O is at 90k
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07:04<+qmr>mmmm, coffee
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07:20<MrGeneral>rsync --dry-run -zavrR --delete --links /remote/file <- will this delete repeated files? I only want to update the remote folder, perhaps I need to remove the "--delete option" no?
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07:31<Kyh>hmm, maybe
07:31<Kyh>also --dry-run doesn't actually do anything
07:32<CornishPasty>If you're doing -v, and --dry-run, shouldn't it tell you what it's going to do?
08:02-!-Whiskey`Wonka [] has joined #linode
08:03<Whiskey`Wonka>Hello. Anyone have a working install of elastix 2.3 in a node?
08:03-!-nicktarc [] has joined #linode
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08:04<nicktarc>i wondoer 1 vps account is for 1 instance for i can have multiple instances...
08:05<bob2>each linode you pay for is one xen vm you can run
08:05<Tormin>you can have multiple configurations and disk images but only 1 booted at a time
08:07<nicktarc>letsay i have 2 account... 1 with 1024 webserver, another with 4096 for database server...
08:08<bob2>then of course you can run two
08:08<bob2>notice the pattern
08:08<chesty>you don't need two accounts, one account and you buy 2 linodes
08:08<nicktarc>then the bandwidth on db server will be waste...
08:08<chesty>bandwidth is pooled
08:08<Tormin>i have 1 account with 22 linodes
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08:10<chesty>how man irc channels are you idling in, Tormin, to require 22 linodes?
08:11<Tormin>not that many... 4 are most of a irc network a couple of hobby servers... and i'm running a mysql cluster with a web server pool behind a node balancer
08:11<nicktarc>so, can the bandwith the combined... coz the webserver dan storage server will need more public bandwidth... but the db just connect to private ip only...
08:12<Tormin>10000GB Quota
08:12<Tormin>that's what my current pooled quota is
08:13<Tormin>and the my db servers don't use it because of private ip traffic from the webservers to them
08:13<nicktarc>yah that is in my mind too...
08:13<nicktarc>just attachement storage frust me out here...
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08:14<nicktarc>i saw alot of remark on web that using s3 or cloudfile is slow when connected to linode...
08:15<nicktarc>because it is external service...
08:15<nicktarc>so, any1 using nfs server as storage server here?
08:15<Tormin>that can completely depend on data centers
08:16<nicktarc>linode server i refer to hosted in japan... since i am from asia...
08:16<Tormin>i happen to know that Rackspace DFW DC shares space with linodes dallas DC
08:16<nicktarc>but cloudfile is in US and UK only...
08:17<Tormin>then yeah it would prolly be slow
08:17<nicktarc>that why... i am thinking using another VPS to at as file server...
08:18<Tormin>you can add extra storage to a vps
08:18<nicktarc>beside the bandwidth... can the disk space be combine as well?
08:18<Tormin>no the disk space does not pool :( would be cool if it did
08:19<nicktarc>ic... yah...
08:19<CornishPasty>It's like $1-2 extra a month per GB... wtf? :/
08:20<chesty>yeah, if you need more disk, upgrading plans is better
08:20<Tormin>it's way easy to resize disk images too
08:21<nicktarc>resize using LVM or the tool on Control Panel...
08:21<@heckman>Katana: hunter4 -- it's twice as secure
08:21<nicktarc>coz both also easy...
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08:23<nicktarc>thanks for all the info... i think i may have some idea on it now...
08:24<CornishPasty>heckman: hunter2hunter2 is mine
08:24<rnowak>2hunter is mine
08:27<Kyh>hunter1 is mine, no one use that!
08:27<rnowak>you're right, I used to, but then I switched, so you're alright
08:27<Katana>i use uhagre2, that way when people break into databases, they assume it's plaintext and not rot13
08:27<Katana>fuck yeah best security
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08:28<chesty>!rot26 you can't see this
08:28<linbot>you can't see this
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08:29<rnowak>see what?
08:29<@akerl>Did you know if you type your password it shows up as '*'s? See: ***********************************
08:29<Kyh>sudo -i
08:30<rnowak>I see, archarcharcharcharcharcharcharcharcharcharch
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08:30<rnowak>I think you screwed it up akerl
08:30<Kyh>oh whoops
08:30<GLaDOSDan>god damn akerl
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08:30<Katana>i wish we could set custom character masks when entering passwords
08:30<rnowak>"urmom" repeating?
08:30<Katana>i want to see more fake entries on top of password fields
08:31<Katana>would be fun to throw off screenpeekers
08:31<GLaDOSDan>god damn akerl
08:31<rnowak>woah woah calm yourself man
08:31<@akerl>Katana: no. so much no.
08:32<Katana>type normal password, see archarcharch on the screen
08:32<@akerl>My old fios router had a "feature" where they ran javascript on the password field, so as you typed it randomized the number of "*"s in the password field with each character
08:32<@akerl>for "security"
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08:33<rwheadon>i keep getting warnings about s59sshkeysfirstboot being corrupt, is this file supposed to still be on my linode image after like 4 years?
08:34<rwheadon>it's an openSuSE image I just upgraded from 11.0 to 12.1
08:35-!-pseudonymous [] has joined #linode
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08:36<pseudonymous>Do anyone here know of a tool to back up the contents of a single IMAP e-mail account with the intention of migrating that to another account later ? I've used imapsynch in the past but I have no other mailserver to move the mails to just yet
08:37<@mikegrb>pseudonymous: maybe offlineimap can be made to do what you want
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08:41<rwheadon>I see something in the debian blog where caker: had to spin through and delete them in 2003
08:42<AFDIT>following this guide on vhost on linode
08:42<AFDIT> seemed to work for one domain but not another
08:42<AFDIT>can anyone help me troubleshoot
08:42<AFDIT>when I ping the new domain ( I get an error about "unkown host"
08:42-!-hipsterslapfight [] has joined #linode
08:42<AFDIT>the domain points at my linode IP
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08:43<chesty>did mikegrb just speak? or did i travel back in time again?
08:43<@akerl>chesty: Nah, you're hallucinating
08:43<Katana>chesty: illusion.
08:43<@akerl>AFDIT: The domain does not point to your Linode's IP
08:44<AFDIT>akerl: thanks - I'll check it
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08:44<@akerl> points to your IP. without the www does not
08:44<AFDIT>it's with 123-reg
08:46<AFDIT>I have the DNS entry as www / type A /
08:46<AFDIT>so I need a blank one for the
08:46<AFDIT>and a www for the domain ?
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08:48<rwheadon>well, I'll just hammer the file. It's obviously making my installs unhappy.
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08:48<linbot>New news from forums: Linode Android v0.8.0 in General Discussion <>
08:49<AFDIT>akerl: thanks again
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08:49<AFDIT>akerl: hmm... it doesn't let me leave that field blank
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08:50<AFDIT>could I use a space?
08:50<AFDIT>or write in the domain without the www. ?
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08:54<rwheadon>AFDIT: isn't there a * or "all others" designation you need to put your ip in?
08:55<rwheadon>networksolutions has "www", "*", "@none" and then any others I choose to add in
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08:55<Katana>@none maybe?
08:55<AFDIT>rwheadon: awesome I'll try *
08:55<CornishPasty>AFDIT: 123-reg uses @
08:55<rwheadon>that's email
08:56<CornishPasty>No rwheadon
08:56<AFDIT>must be
08:56<AFDIT>sorry @confusing@
08:56<rwheadon>thanks CP, good to know
08:56<Katana>email uses MX records
08:57<AFDIT>"Warning - If you have an @ record set to a CNAME, all other @ records (including MX) will be ignored and set to the same domain to which it points."
08:57<CornishPasty>AFDIT: this is true
08:57<AFDIT>but as I added it as A I think it's ok
08:57<AFDIT>they can use whatever for email
08:57<Katana>just don't use a CNAME
08:57<AFDIT>Katana: ;)
08:57<Katana>bad voodoo when you use CNAMEs inappropriately
08:59<@heckman>Using CNAME as @ = against RFC iirc
09:00<Katana>it's bad voodoo when used wrongly for other things too
09:01<CornishPasty>CNAMEs are silly
09:01<@heckman>Nah, they have some good purpose.
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09:02<Katana>hmm, how do you grab all the TXT records in dig? just dig TXT?
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09:02<CornishPasty>Katana: yes...
09:03*Katana waits for the nameservers to update
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09:37<@Perihelion>Boohemian: Change your quit message -_-
09:39*praetorian hugs
09:40<chesty>Perihelion: ignore praetorian, she's drunk tonight
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09:40<praetorian>i'm far from drunk good sir
09:40<praetorian>tho, spending all day at an AWS event, kinda has me thinking CLOUD CLOUD CLOUD.
09:40<praetorian>but that's another story
09:40<CornishPasty>chesty isn't a good sir :P
09:41<praetorian>true that.
09:41<Katana>hihi praetorian
09:41<praetorian>Werner from Amazon is quite the good public speaker
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09:43<chesty>amazon cloud services seems really complicated and more expensive than linode. perhaps it's only advantage is the finer grained billing
09:44<praetorian>it's advantage is the whole tear up/tear down ecosystem.
09:44<@akerl>chesty: Which, depending on your use case, may not be an advantage
09:44<praetorian>like .. for my company.. makes sense to spin up 1,000 extra aws instances to handle peak demand for 5 hours
09:44<praetorian>than to spin up 300 linodes per se
09:45<chesty>that's what i was thinking
09:45<chesty>props on the use of the word exosystem. nah, you weren't brainwashed
09:45<praetorian>it's all about purpose
09:46<praetorian><=- un brainwashable
09:46<praetorian>anyway, for work, linode is not relevant anyway :)
09:46<praetorian>unless winode starts up :p
09:46<mcinerney>prae, you just to get into deltacloud
09:47-!-demetris [] has joined #linode
09:47<praetorian>it lives!
09:47<mcinerney>at the end of the day, it's about workloads. it doesn't matter where that workload lives, just having the ability to scale it as required
09:48<@Perihelion>A wild praetorian appears!
09:49<praetorian>hey <3
09:49<@Perihelion>Hi! Back in a bit :P
09:50*Katana throws a red-and-white tennis ball at praetorian
09:50*praetorian forward lobs it back
09:51*Katana throws another tennis ball with the word "ultra" written on it with a sharpie
09:53<auraka>Katana: you're fired
09:54<Katana>auraka: :<
09:55<praetorian>"you cant fire me, i quit"
09:56<rwheadon>haha … a: "You're fired!" , k: "Why?" , a: "You're fired!"
09:57<Katana>when did auraka even hire me
09:58<auraka>I didn't...but my mission in life is now to work where you work...become your manager and fire you
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09:58<auraka>consider yourself canned Mr.
09:58<Katana>So, if I get hired at Valve, you're SOL.
09:59<auraka>Katana: Valve hires quality so I doubt we will have that issue
09:59<auraka>Just joking...didn't know you applied, good luck
09:59<Katana>I haven't :P
09:59<praetorian>haha nice come back
09:59<Katana>I just mention it because they're a flat company
10:00<auraka>tell Gabe to quit answering emails and get stuff done
10:00<Katana>Hah, I don't think anyone has the heart to
10:00<Katana>He's too good to the masses
10:00<auraka>He needs to begin ruling with an iron fist
10:00<Katana>unfortunately, they make up for it by trolling their players hard quite often
10:02<Katana>also hats
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10:39<linbot>New news from forums: How to change in Lish Ajax Console in General Discussion <>
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10:44<computed>ever since patching for the hypervisor 0day last night my linode has been constantly running out of memory and freezing ;(
10:44<computed>not a userland problem
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10:46<@heckman>computed: If you're running out of memory, that's a userland issue.
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10:47<CornishPasty>If you're running out of user, that's a memoryland issue.
10:47<Katana>i'm running out of memory
10:47<rnowak>running out of user is good, not an issue
10:47<bss>i'm running out of land :|
10:47<Katana>i can't remember all these damn formulas
10:47<rnowak>bss: you're too much user
10:47<computed>it isn't a userland issue
10:49<Katana>land users, psh
10:49<Katana>what about sea users
10:50<rwheadon>or user monsters
10:50<computed>neat bug anyway
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11:01<computed>oh well, i'll just open a ticket hwen i have the time to show it isn't "userland"
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11:06*mwalling wonders when the last reboot was before his forced reboot
11:06<XReaper>mwalling: linode forced reboot?
11:10-!-squircle is now known as Guest454
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11:10<XReaper>i had 47 days... and got a forced host reboot :P
11:11<XReaper>Mind you, was running 3.2.1 which yesterday bit me in the butt :P
11:11<linbot>New news from forums: Cron job: Permission Denied error in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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11:17<GLaDOSDan>Katana ping
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11:17<rwheadon>had a forced reboot last month, not everything came up smoothly… including eth0
11:17<XReaper>i had one, and yes my network config died
11:17<Katana>GLaDOSDan: what i do
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11:19<rwheadon>on a good note, upgrading to 12.1 seems to have fixed my eth0 issues on reboot
11:19<XReaper>Katana: everything
11:19<XReaper>I found out the hard way how bad 3.2.1linode40 was regardless of how i knew it had affected Peng :P
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11:20<rwheadon>I was on whatever was current 3 years or so ago and had to switch during the upgrade so that might have had more to do with my clean restarts than the actual upgrade
11:20*rwheadon shrugs
11:22<rwheadon>was on
11:22<rwheadon>came up to 3.0.18
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11:24<XReaper>3.0.x is the sweet spot atm
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11:39<AFDIT>more domain Qs for you I'm afraid
11:39<AFDIT>are subdomains added to vhosts in apache the same way?
11:39<AFDIT>and do I need to create subdomains at dynadot now they manage my main domain?
11:39-!-A-KO [as@2001:470:1f07:115d:e042:7367:48f2:d8a6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:39<rwheadon>checking my apache config
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11:43<rwheadon>so in vhosts.d you just add a virtual host template for each subdomain
11:44<rwheadon>heh, i'm using openSuSE though, you are probably on debian or ubuntu so I don't know if they use proxy.conf or what
11:45<AFDIT>rwheadon: ubuntu
11:45<AFDIT>I did sudo nano /etc/apache2/sites-available/
11:45<AFDIT>for each domain
11:45<AFDIT>but don't have a clue about the subdomains
11:45*rwheadon nods, guessing that's the ubuntu way
11:46<kbr>s/nano/vim ?
11:47<GLaDOSDan>echo "alias vim='nano'" >> ~/.bashrc
11:47<kbr>consider subdomains the same thing
11:47<AFDIT>kbr: never got the hang of vim
11:47<kbr>just do /etc/apache2/sites-available/
11:47<AFDIT>kbr: been using linux a while but am still n00b
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11:47<kbr>you know what i mean?
11:47-!-jspiros [] has joined #linode
11:47<kbr>i was just kidding btw rofl
11:48<AFDIT>kbr: :)
11:48<AFDIT>kbr: so create the subdomain as it's own folder in /var/www/ like the other domains
11:48<AFDIT>and will I need to add more records at the registrar?
11:48<AFDIT>kbr: awesome I'll try that
11:48<kbr>you need to have your subdomains point to that machine
11:49<AFDIT>you guys are great btw
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11:56<AFDIT>back again...
11:56<AFDIT>can't see how to add a subdomain to the current domain I have with dynadot
11:56<AFDIT>or how to add one as it's own domain
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12:00<AFDIT>could be cos it's locked
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12:08<AFDIT>dynadot said it's because I use nameservers
12:08<AFDIT>so it's in DNS stuff on my linode I guess
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12:12<Katana>add A/AAAA records in the manager
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12:14<AFDIT>done :D
12:14<AFDIT>one for the www. and one without
12:14<AFDIT>the TTL is set to 5mins so after that I should be able to ping etc right
12:15<@heckman>Having a TTL that low is kind of pointless unless you're going to be switching the IP in the future at short notice.
12:15<@irgeek>TTL != zone regeneration frequency
12:16<@irgeek>You can query the server directly to find out if it has the records: dig @<nameserver> <record>
12:16<@irgeek>That *shouldn't* pollute your upstream caches with NXDOMAIN responses.
12:17<@irgeek>Unless you're using an ISP that does bad things to you DNS traffic.
12:18<AFDIT>irgeek: don't think so
12:18<AFDIT>trying now
12:18<AFDIT>1 server found for
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12:19<AFDIT>couldn't get address for : not found
12:19<AFDIT>still can't ping it either
12:20<Katana>remember, linode nameservers update every quarter hour
12:20<AFDIT>Katana: aaaah
12:20<AFDIT>Katana: I am dufus
12:20<Katana>if you did it after :15, you gotta wait until :30
12:20<AFDIT>I'll try later then
12:20<Katana>a good bit about DNS is just timing :)
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12:21<AFDIT>back before I was self employed that would have sounded like a reasonable excuse to be on reddit
12:21<Tea>stop liking what i don't like
12:21<Tea>wrong channel
12:22<@irgeek>AFDIT: trying to ping a DNS name before it's in the server will cause your upstream resolver to cache the NXDOMAIN response.
12:23<@irgeek>That's why you use dig to query the server directly.
12:23<AFDIT>irgeek: can you simplify that first statement for me?
12:23<AFDIT>irgeek: upstream resolver + NXdomain response
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12:28<@irgeek>When you ping a name that doesn't exist in DNS a server somewhere along the DNS tree tells your resolver that the name doesn't exist.
12:29<@irgeek>Your resolver caches that information so it doesn't have to ask again for a while.
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12:30<@irgeek>So even if the name comes into existence 1 second after your resolver was told it didn't exist, your resolver won't ask for it again until the cache time expirse.
12:32<CornishPasty>I wonder why DNS is back to front :/
12:33<CornishPasty>Well you start at the right hand side...
12:33<CornishPasty>In terms of hierarchy
12:33<stergosz>quick question, my linode will be rebooted on the maintenance that will take place on May 28-29 so if i change dataceter will this be prevented so i can return back to the same datacenter after the maintenance?
12:34<scorche|sh>changing datacenters would still involve rebooting...
12:34<stergosz>thats not the problem.. i just want to know if i change dc now there won't by any conflict with the maintenance that will take place on late may
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12:36<@irgeek>CornishPasty: When you're looking at a DNS name, the left-most part is probably more important to you than the right-most part. DNS was created (at least mostly) by native english speakers and native english speakers read left-to-right.
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12:39<dcraig>I'd rather go to google dot com than com dot google
12:40<CornishPasty>Hm. I learned that the important part of a sentence should really be near the middle/end
12:41<dcraig>sorry, I only read "of a sentence should really"
12:41<@irgeek>DNS doesn't represent sentences - it represents names.
12:42<CornishPasty>irgeek: and how do we write names, most often in business? SURNAME, Firstname
12:42-!-goose [] has joined #linode
12:42<@irgeek>In a DB maybe. Not in letters.
12:42-!-Linear [] has joined #linode
12:42<@irgeek>Think of addresses.
12:43<CornishPasty>No, in letters we write Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms/etc. Surname
12:43<linbot>New news from forums: Linode CDN in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
12:43<CornishPasty>Anyway, I have company, laters :P
12:43<dcraig>why does the line containing the apartment number go between the line containing the street and the line containing the city?!
12:43<dcraig>that's like middle endian
12:43<@irgeek>They're ordered most-specific (number & street) to least-specific (city, state, county)
12:43<CornishPasty>irgeek: are not
12:44<CornishPasty>123 Street Name, Suite #1, Town, City, State/County/Province, A1A1A1
12:44<@irgeek>Great counter point!
12:44*irgeek gives up
12:44<CornishPasty>Also, the postcode is at the end, when it should be near the middle
12:44<dcraig>and the zip code is probably more specific than the city/state combo...
12:45<CornishPasty>So really, it should be Suite #1, 123 A1A1A1 Street Name, Town, City, State/County/Province
12:45<@irgeek>AFIAK, the zip is at the end for machine-readability.
12:45<@irgeek>Because machines read them.
12:45<CornishPasty>irgeek: Those infernal machines!
12:45<CornishPasty>Anyway, laters
12:49<linbot>New news from forums: internet black out in /dev/random <> || Most distracting noise in your office in /dev/random <>
12:51<dcraig>the most distracting noise in my office in /dev/random is the sound of those random bits flying around
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12:53<dzho>you need to rustle you up some /dev/null to quiet it all down a notch
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13:01<Katana>CornishPasty, irgeek: zip code at the bottom for sorting, then address at the top for more precise delivery. the city/state are irrelevant (added for clarity) and apartment suite comes after because more attention needs to be paid to the street address, not the apartment number - the apartment number is only important basically when you're at the mailboxes already
13:03<Katana>you can afford to take the time to look down a line with apartment numbers, when you're right there, but not with street addresses, because sorting facilities and mail carriers need to see where they're going right now - having to backtrack would waste a *lot* of time
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13:07<CornishPasty>Katana: in the UK, you can provide a house number street and postcode
13:08<Katana>that's just a part of the UK's twisted sense of humor though :P
13:08<CornishPasty>like the DVLA's address is DVLA, Swansea, SA6 7JL
13:08<CornishPasty>Katana: not really :P
13:08<CornishPasty>Makes it easier to write addresses as: 1 Street, BN1 1AA
13:08<Katana>for a lot of mail, there isn't an apartment/suite number in the US though
13:09<Katana>population's much more spread out
13:09<CornishPasty>That would actually go to the sorting office in Brighton :P
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13:09<CornishPasty>For most mail in the UK we don't have apartment/suite numbers
13:09<CornishPasty>We all mostly live in houses :P
13:10<kbr>cat /dev/null > dcraig
13:10<Katana>PIPING CATS
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13:15<+qmr>almost lunchtime .. 1hr of /r/aww or should I go run a few miles
13:15<kbr>WHY NOT BOTH?
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13:16<+qmr>I guess I could write a few lines of python to scroll through /r/aww
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13:25<Katana>brb dying
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13:27<dcraig>tony the pony
13:28<JshWright>You know you can link directly to SO answers, right?
13:28<JshWright>rather than taking and posting a screenshot...
13:28<randallman>I've seen this before...
13:28<randallman>when, I cant remember
13:29<Katana>JshWright: I'm keeping this for the future
13:29<Katana>JshWright: the answer's been locked, so in case it gets removed, it will still remain
13:29<Katana>on the internet
13:29<dcraig>why should we have to depend on browser-specific rendering of all those funky characters? the whole joke could be lost!
13:30<Katana>this too, i imagine xp users would miss out :)
13:30<Katana>i imagine one day there will be ie6 users who just browse the web through forwarded screenshots
13:32<Katana>for them, the web will be read only
13:32<Katana>a perfect solution to ie6
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14:20<linbot>New news from forums: I couldn't connect to my linode through FTP in General Discussion <>
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14:24<rwheadon><- starving and doesn't want to cook!
14:31<rwheadon>haha, I just notified all the ATL facebook people there are nice type a sedan seats in the north lot
14:31<rwheadon>I'm gonna get some hate mail soon
14:31<rwheadon>"why didn't you get them for me?"
14:31<rwheadon>"Can you go back out and get them?"
14:35<eth1>Anyone here running into issues with Google Apps today?
14:37<eth1>As of an hour or two ago I was getting reports of "Sending in the background..." message showing up at the top and mail not going out. I figured it was isolated to one user but now the number is growing exponentially :S
14:37<eth1>It's just on a select few domains though so I'll cross my fingers :D not a linode issue ;-) of course
14:37<EugeneKay>Probably just your lil corner of the google world
14:38<EugeneKay>Remember that their stuff is massively distributed, so the entire system could be dead for half the globe and you woudln't notice it locally.
14:38<rwheadon>^^ sorry everyone, wrong room!! haha
14:39*rwheadon looks for the stupid post recall button.
14:39<EugeneKay>rwheadon - we don't mind; I just figured you were on teh drugs.
14:39*rwheadon nods
14:40<rwheadon>that sounds like a good fallback for my apparent confusion
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14:56<new2linode>If I wanted to make a web page to a directory like, would I just <mkdir -p /srv/www/>, and then just create an index.html file in that directory?
14:58<new2linode>Or do I need to create a virtual host also for the srv/www/>
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14:58<EugeneKay>No, it should work just fine in that directory. If you have rewrite rules setup then funky stuff may go on....
14:59<new2linode>Thanks eugene. I appreciate the help....
14:59<EugeneKay>Virtual Hosts are for the domain level. If you wanted to make, then it owuld be time to add one.
15:00<new2linode>I see, so for domains and subdomains, a vhost is needed - but directories on top of a domain or subdomain would not. Makes sense
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15:05<seanh-ansca>3 more reboot emails
15:05<Tormin>yeah 3 more for me too
15:06<@caker>can ask for a migration (which you can press initiate at your leisure) as an alternative
15:06<Tormin>caker: will this affect all of our nodes?
15:06<@caker>all of whose nodes?
15:07<@caker>If the question is: does this affect all Linodes, the answer is no - not even close
15:07<Tormin>i've gotten 10 e-mails i've got 22 linoes
15:07<eth1>Caker, what ya doing there dude... rebooting everything like that! Upgrades? :D
15:07<@caker>OK - all reboot notifications are out.
15:08<Tormin>cool so the ones i didn't get e-mails on won't be rebooted right
15:09-!-stephenplatz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:10<Tormin>caker so if i have 2 nodes Scheduled for the same night and i don't want them both done on the same night i can request a migration on 1 of them?
15:10<EugeneKay>They will be, but not right now.
15:10<EugeneKay>Rolling upgrades
15:10<EugeneKay>Oh herp
15:10<@caker>Tormin: you can ask for a migration as an alternative, yes.
15:11<EugeneKay>I thought it was gonan be all.... the ticket reponse I got was rather evasive about it. :-/
15:11<@caker>EugeneKay: hmm?
15:12<EugeneKay>Ticket #972491
15:12<EugeneKay>'Is there any more information available on the level of this "software issue"? In particular, is this limited to this host, or is it a portion of the whole platform? My concern is whether all machines are going to need to be updated within the coming weeks for this same reason.'
15:12<EugeneKay>'While we cannot disclose the specific details of the issue at this time, we will be performing maintenance on multiple hosts. To minimize downtime, we are scheduling all downtime over the course of a period of time, rather than all at once. If other Linodes on your account will also need scheduled maintenance, you will receive tickets for them in the upcoming days.'
15:13<@caker>I'm not seeing anything wrong with our provided updates -- what's up?
15:13<EugeneKay>I was rather specificall looking for whether it was "some" "most" or "all" hosts
15:13<@caker>'Is there any more information available on the level of this "software issue"? == we can't discuss it due to predisclosure club.
15:14<EugeneKay>Including subsequent IRC discussion.... which was basically ignored.
15:14<@caker>"My concern is whether all machines are going to need to be updated within the coming weeks for this same reason.'" --> If other Linodes on your account will also need scheduled maintenance, you will receivetickets for them in the upcoming days.'
15:15<@caker>Did we not answer the question? You'll have the full picture in a couple of days.
15:15<auraka>the "we can't tell you" thing is becoming a theme sadly
15:15<EugeneKay>That was still without a scale to measure
15:16<Tormin>he basicly gave the answer caker: If the question is: does this affect all Linodes, the answer is no - not even close
15:16<purrdeta>I dunno, it seems to me that they cant tell you right now before their vendor tells. Seems pretty simple to me.
15:16<@caker>We can't disclose what it is until the vendor (and someone else) does.
15:16<EugeneKay>It's not a terribly big nag, but I was just a lil frumped.
15:16<EugeneKay>I understand that the nature of the vuln is privileged info, but a % of affected hosts(and a blog post?) would have been nice.
15:17<@caker>we don't give out stuff like that, sorry
15:17<@caker>we also can't blog about something we can't talk about!
15:17-!-asdfqwer [] has joined #linode
15:17<@caker>maybe after
15:17<Katana>I was thinking that it was all hosts myself, with how the ticket was phrased
15:17<purrdeta>That blog post would be sorta fun "There is a vuln we cant talk about... yay!"
15:17<EugeneKay>Even "An issue requiring a reboot of approximately 10% of deployed hosts" ? That's a heck of a NDA.
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15:27<seanh-ansca>this is why i like full disclosure security lists
15:27<auraka>EugeneKay: does it really matter to know the %? How does that help?
15:27<seanh-ansca>non of this silly "i can't talk about it" stuff
15:27-!-Whiskey`Wonka [] has quit []
15:28<@caker>seanh-ansca: anarchy is not the answer
15:29*seanh-ansca shrugs
15:30<dzho>it may be, depends on what the question is
15:30<auraka>caker: are peoples nodes/data at possible risk right now from whatever is requiring all the reboots?
15:31<auraka>risk of compromise or risk of loss
15:31<auraka>if so are there mitigating controls?
15:32<rwheadon>it's probably all my fault
15:32<EugeneKay>auraka - the account in question has enough Linodes on it to make a % number a useful planning point
15:32<auraka>EugeneKay: ah...gotcha
15:33<Tormin>it's a little planing sometimes
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15:36<seanh-ansca>under communication about stuff i think is my only real "complaint" about linode
15:37<Tormin>i don't know i can't complain they are very accommodating to needs
15:37<auraka>caker: any response?
15:37<seanh-ansca>lag in reporting outages and `reasons` for outages
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15:38<seanh-ansca>i'm not sure i've ever see a reason for an outage given in any real detail actually with the exception of the fremont issues where it's obviously HE being stupid
15:38<purrdeta>I've never had an outage... so I guess thats cool for me lol
15:38<auraka>purrdeta: you haven't been here long enough then
15:38<seanh-ansca>purrdeta: they aren't that common, which is awesome
15:38<purrdeta>I've been here for over 2 years...
15:38<@caker>seanh-ansca: bs in reporting outages lag - do you guys realize how hard we work at all this stuff?
15:38<purrdeta>Or three... I cant remember
15:39<auraka>they are usually far and few between
15:39<seanh-ansca>but they they happen getting info about them is brick wall like
15:39<@caker>We're on it - any time there is a host failure people have tickets in moments, and we work it until it's solved
15:39<purrdeta>"Your account has been active since January 13, 2009
15:39<seanh-ansca>caker: really hard, but even the postmortems suck
15:39<auraka>caker: what about my questions? Or can I get a "we can't respond to those"
15:40<@caker>auraka: obviously the issue is serious enough for us to go to this length.
15:40<seanh-ansca>and automated notifications for things aren't `that` hard
15:40<seanh-ansca>since you already do them for other stuff obviously
15:40<@caker>why are we always the bad guys?
15:40<auraka>caker: is there a mitigating factor where customer data/nodes aren't at risk?
15:40<Tormin>I can tell it's ALOT of work for this too
15:40-!-pseudonymous [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40<auraka>caker: I think yuo guys are the good guys, I think you guys respond well except for the hacking incident
15:40<@caker>auraka: doesn't work like that
15:41<purrdeta>caker: well, its because everyone has to have someone to blame :/
15:41<auraka>caker: so are customer nodes/data at risk?
15:41<@caker>auraka: I can't discuss, kthx
15:41<auraka>seems like a simple question there
15:41<seanh-ansca>caker: linode is awesome in basically every other regard, i recommend you to people all the time
15:41<auraka>you can't tell us if we are at risk?
15:41<@caker>it's not that I don't want to - I can't.
15:41<rwheadon>^^i think that's why there is a backup option to purchase
15:42<Tormin>auraka potential to disclose the nature of the problem they can't discuss if they give any info at all
15:42<seanh-ansca>caker: i'm just letting you know my single frustration about linode, which happens to be at the forfront at the moment
15:42<auraka>caker: you surely can tell us if we could be at risk from a Linode hosting eprspective, you don't have to tell us what the risk is but no NDA is that ironclad
15:42<raymohi>This is the internet there are always risks
15:42<@caker>auraka: I can't give any details, sorry
15:42-!-VladGh [] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me]
15:43<seanh-ansca>auraka: the i forgot about the hacking thing, the details released about that sucked too
15:43<auraka>caker: okie dokie...I think that is a crappy stance to take especially if your customers might be at risk
15:43-!-VladGh [] has joined #linode
15:43<Tormin>but it's not caker's stance
15:43<auraka>it is his stance
15:44<seanh-ansca>Torenn: yes it is
15:44<Tormin>no it's a stance forced on him
15:44<EugeneKay>I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's Linode's lawyer's stance, not caker's personally.
15:44<EugeneKay>When you're running a company taking over a million dollars(my guesstimate) a month in income, you can disclose what you like
15:44<auraka>no NDA out there can tell me that I can't notify my customer that we have identified a risk that could put their data at risk
15:44<Tormin>i wouldn't even say it's that close
15:44<EugeneKay>Until then, shush up and be happy that Linode is the BEST VPS host.
15:44<@caker>EugeneKay: until the next time something is discovered and you're no longer on the predisclosure list.
15:45<@caker>sorry, not going to happen.
15:45-!-vodka [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
15:46<rwheadon>if i'm hearing caker right… he can't say that your data is at risk because there is uncertainty around it… kind like saying "maybe, maybe not… we don't know yet"
15:46-!-jt888 [] has joined #linode
15:46<EugeneKay>I personally think that the way most vendors/projects handle vulnerability disclosure is crap, but that's life.
15:46<seanh-ansca>EugeneKay: totally agree
15:46<@caker>you guys are nuts.
15:47<purrdeta>caker: <3
15:47<EugeneKay>But at least we have you <3
15:47<JshWright>I think it's fair ask if you're currently exposed to a vulnerabilty, so that you can take steps to mitigate it yourself
15:47<rwheadon>caker: you can kill my data… it's all offline as well
15:47<JshWright>s/fair ask/fair to ask/
15:48-!-jt888 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:48<auraka>JshWright: apparently not
15:48<EugeneKay>JshWright - my bet is that there are no steps to mitigate it yourself. If it requries a host reboot then it's a host vuln, so it's above our circle of responsibility. Just be patient ;-)
15:48<JshWright>For instance... I'd rather migrate to an unaffected host _now_, rather than wait for a maint window two weeks out...
15:48<@heckman>JshWright: we're offering those if you'd like one
15:49<JshWright>heckman: I have no idea if I'd like one or not. Is there current a known security vulnerability on the host I'm on? (assuming I got a ticket)
15:49<auraka>heckman: request via a ticket?
15:50<EugeneKay>JshWright - it has been stated that all tickets are out. If you didn't get one, then you're not on the list.
15:50<JshWright>I did. I got several in fact
15:50<Tormin>just out of curiosity could a brand new node possibly get deployed to an affected host?
15:50<EugeneKay>Then respond in that ticket.
15:51<JshWright>EugeneKay: I don't expect to get a responsible answer in either place, so why bother?
15:51<Tormin>i responed to one of my tickets for a migration and got a response with an activated migration within mins
15:51<EugeneKay>JshWright - and I expect that you're wrong. Linode people is good people
15:52<JshWright>I'm not worried about getting a migration if I want one... My issue is I don't have enough information to know if I want one or not
15:52<seanh-ansca>EugeneKay: i don't think anyones argued against that
15:52<auraka>EugeneKay: they are also not infallable like many of the fans seem to think. We can always improve and it is worth pointing out in what ways.
15:53<purrdeta>But... it isn't like they aren't telling you out of some spite or hate.
15:55<JshWright>I'm not speculating on the motive, I'm just suggesting that it's not unreasonable to want to know if the host I'm on has a known security hole
15:56*EugeneKay blinks
15:56<avenj>wait now we're pissed that linode won't totally violate all rules pertaining to disclosure and is instead fixing the issue?
15:56<avenj>I mean, I was a little 'wtf' over the complete lack of manager compromise details, but really now
15:57<JshWright>I'm not asking about the nature of the vulnerability (assuming there is one)... I'm not even asking if it's being actively exploited in the wild. I'm just asking a simple yes or no question...
15:57<avenj>JshWright: what do you need, a big red flag?
15:57<auraka>avenj: wait don't have to violate disclosure rules by telling customers their data could currently be at risk.
15:57<avenj>clearly there's an undisclosed issue being fixed ahead of a release
15:57<avenj>you can apply your brain based on available information without any employees violating disclosure rules
15:57<auraka>telling customers what the vulnerability is in what software would violate that....
15:58<EugeneKay>Here's the thing: Linode has told you that you're at risk, and that your Host is being fixed.
15:58<EugeneKay>So shush with your BUT MY BITCOINS
15:58<JshWright>avenj: there's a wide range of issues that could require a host reboot, I only care about a subset of them (specifically, security issues)
15:58<auraka>avenj: which is why I asked if there was something mitigating that risk....if there is a hole but there is something there to stop someone from exploiting that then risk is deminished
15:59-!-new2linode [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:59<avenj>JshWright: would you agree that, based on available information, there appears to be an unreleased issue that is probably related to security and is otherwise fairly critical and that it would be sane to assume security is the likely explanation?
16:00<avenj>I figured that out all by myself and didn't have to beg caker to fuckup his company's pre-get-fucked-by-0day notification
16:00<avenj>maybe I'm wrong, but it seems a safe assumption, no?
16:00<JshWright>avenj: I think there's a reasonable chance of that, but it could also be a simple data-loss bug, which wouldn't be sufficient motivation for me to migrate
16:01<auraka>avenj: now can you tell me if there is something there to mitigate that risk which would make migration a lower priority?
16:01<Tormin>it shouldn't matter if your following good backup practices
16:01<JshWright>Tormin: what shouldn't matter?
16:02<Tormin>if the issue is a simple data-loss bug or something else
16:02<avenj>JshWright: then I guess you have a judgement call to make based on the data that is available
16:03<avenj>auraka: I am not on predisclosure lists, I don't work for linode ... and I wouldn't disclose details if I was or had any, so I guess the answer would be a resounding no
16:03<JshWright>Of course it would matter. My data vanishing (and then being restored from my backup) is a very different scenario than someone else having my data
16:04<Tormin>then if you think that could be a problem for you.. you have options to mitigate that
16:04<avenj>caker: thanks for being on top of these issues, sincerely
16:04<avenj>good luck gentlemen! :)
16:04*avenj out
16:04<auraka>okay....then that is why some questions are asked, being pissy because people ask some pointed questions is ridiculous. The answer was they wouldn't discuss it, so that meant to be I better migrate. Having signed a number of NDAs I have never seen one that says you can't notify your customers if their data is at risk.
16:05<avenj>the original answer was apparently not enough to kill the three pages of whining in my scroll buffer, which is why I said anything at all
16:05<auraka>or...if you have done something to mitigate that risk
16:05<avenj>anyway, really must do something more productive than debate things that can't be changed
16:05*auraka nods
16:07-!-Snowolf_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:11<auraka>I'd like to take a guess and say a Supermicro IPMI vulnerability or some XEN vuln....but I'll go with Supermicro
16:11-!-sent [] has joined #linode
16:11<sent>something going on in fremont?
16:13<asdfqwer>there's no way to export images on linode is there?
16:13<seanh-ansca>auraka: that's `exactly` what i was thinking
16:13<staticsafe>people should use the ` more often :D
16:13<seanh-ansca>auraka: or some kind of raid driver issue
16:14<@caker>sent: nope - what's up?
16:14<purrdeta>asdfqwer: huh?
16:14<@caker>asdfqwer: certainly - it's Linux -- plenty of ways to do it ... dd, tarball, rsnyc, etc
16:14<seanh-ansca>auraka: i would have expected to see xen issues on public mailing lists
16:14<rwheadon>i'm actually glad they aren't saying anything… it's more fun to hear the chatter about what it probably is.
16:14<asdfqwer>as an ova?
16:15<auraka>rwheadon: I had to say something so I'll seem like an Oracle if I'm right and everyone will forget if I'm wrong :-P
16:15<asdfqwer>i'm talking about getting the vdi
16:15<auraka>caker: thanks for answering my question, may not have been the answer I wanted but I do appreciate you responding
16:15<@caker>auraka: np .. sorry I can't say more. I'd like to post something about it after though
16:16<seanh-ansca>caker: i also appreciate it
16:16<sent>sctp_rcv_ootb+0x50/0xf0 <- screen full of this
16:16<sent>this in particular
16:16-!-aph [~andy@] has joined #linode
16:16<sent>i'm rebooting it
16:16-!-stephenplatz [] has joined #linode
16:17<staticsafe>this might interest people here -,226562
16:17<seanh-ansca>caker: fwiw i'll keep complaining about the lack of visibility into service related issues until it gets' better
16:17<@caker>sent: switch to "Latest 3.0" and reboot.
16:17<sent>caker: can you explain?
16:18<@caker>sent: log into Linode Manager, click on your Linode, click on the Configuration Profile, select "Latest 3.0" from the kernel drop down, save, reboot
16:18<sent>i'm on 2.6.39-1
16:18-!-tc0de [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:18<sent>but what would switching to latest 3.0 do?
16:18<sent>forgive me
16:18<@caker>switches to a kernel that's not broken
16:18<sent>will this update the kernel?
16:19<CornishPasty>This kills the crab
16:19<sent>caker: this is a production box
16:19<sent>better go smoothly ;/
16:19*caker sighs
16:19<sent>ok ok
16:19<sent>switching to latest 3.0
16:19<CornishPasty>OR ELSE, CAKER!
16:20<seanh-ansca>caker: would making more public posts about the lack of visibility into things help?
16:20<avenj>seanh-ansca: stop being an idiot.
16:20<@caker>seanh-ansca: no, please stop
16:20<seanh-ansca>so that's a yes
16:20<avenj>seanh-ansca: you'd prefer that linode did what? nothing, sat on their hands, received no predisclosure notification at all, and were very public about it when they later announce that your data's been compromised because they can't get predisclosure notification?
16:20*raymohi facepalms
16:21<auraka>seanh-ansca: I'd seriously stop if I were you
16:21<sent>CentOS release 5.8 (Final)
16:21<sent>Kernel 3.0.18-linode43 on an i686
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16:22<JasonF>I appreciate the fact that caker was answering all those questions. I remember when it was just you and mikegrb
16:22<purrdeta>JasonF: ^5
16:23<EugeneKay>Is mikegrb actually a Reverend?
16:23<seanh-ansca>avenj: meh
16:23<@mikegrb>EugeneKay: yes, my child
16:23<EugeneKay>What church?
16:23<avenj>seanh-ansca: ok, you convinced me.
16:24<seanh-ansca>avenj: we aren't really having an argument, we both have our sides, and are so entrenched in them that neither one of us will be convinced
16:24<avenj>this isn't arguing, this is me telling you you're acting like a buffoon
16:25<asdfqwer>this is pretty interesting
16:25<avenj>now go forth on your crusade against linode, I guess.
16:25<asdfqwer>has anyone tested that ?
16:25<@caker>asdfqwer: yes
16:25<asdfqwer>pretty painless?
16:25<@caker>I rather enjoyed it.
16:25<EugeneKay>If you're a linux god, yes. If you are any form of lesser mortal, prepare your crying glands.
16:25<asdfqwer>no peculair oddities?
16:26-!-logichole [] has joined #linode
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16:26<asdfqwer>what kind of disk did you migrate?
16:26-!-demetris [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:26<seanh-ansca>avenj: i like linode except for this one thing, it's the only negative thing i have to say about them. though it's fairly significant imho.
16:26-!-Snowolf [] has quit []
16:26<EugeneKay>I built a Custom Instance, rather than an existing migration. Only real gotcha is that your existing disk has to be ext3 if you want to use the Manager's resize stuff.
16:26<avenj>seanh-ansca: in some situations more details would've been potentially comforting, such as the manager compromise. this isn't one of those situations.
16:26<rwheadon>heh "crying glands"
16:26<EugeneKay>That and the tty stuff, which is tiresome to debug.
16:27<EugeneKay>I still don't think I have it right, but meh. Lish works.
16:27<rwheadon>"but can't I just move my stuff over like I do with Time Machine?"
16:27<auraka>avenj: and what is comforting is relative to each individual, please remember your ideas and ways aren't the only ones out there.
16:27<asdfqwer>anyone ever migrate an ec2 instance over to linode?
16:27<@caker>yes, plenty of people
16:27<avenj>... now we're into hippie drum circle territory
16:27<asdfqwer>people do these things already?!
16:28<rwheadon>^^^^^that's one long usb cable you'de need.
16:28<EugeneKay>Should be fairly straightforward. You'll need to boot your EC2 instance into something other than the OS itself for the disk copy.
16:28<asdfqwer>i'm unfamiliar with ec2
16:28<asdfqwer>does it work vice versa?
16:28<seanh-ansca>avenj: i'm happy you're comfortable with it, i don't think it's enough. so i'm voicing my thoughts
16:29<avenj>I can tell some of you have no experience with predisclosure notification, so it works like this: people with a vested interest who are deemed trustworthy get notified of serious problems ahead of public disclosure so they can protect their systems. if you fuck it up, you don't get predisclosure notifications any more because no one trusts you.
16:29<EugeneKay>You may be better off building a new Linode and doing a userspace migration of services.
16:29<avenj>some of you would apparently prefer option #2: the hosts (that you don't control) stay at risk until public disclosure, at which point it's probably too late
16:29<EugeneKay>You already have to change the IPs everything is pointing do, so make it clean and apply everything you learned from the last machine to the new one ;-)
16:29<avenj>seems to me linode is working to protect you and everyone is Very Upset because zomg I don't have all the details
16:29<+qmr>< Tormin> just out of curiosity could a brand new node possibly get deployed to an affected host? ||||| No, newly created nodes will not experience downtime for this particular maintenance issue.
16:30<asdfqwer>in less than 3 sentences summarize what amazon ec2 is like compared to linode
16:30<avenj>I think some of you need your own dedicated hosts.
16:30<asdfqwer>assume the audience comes from the linode camp
16:30-!-Kabaka [] has joined #linode
16:30<seanh-ansca>avenj: i'm a full disclosure person, as previously stated
16:30<EugeneKay>!google linode vs ec2
16:30<linbot>EugeneKay: Price War: Linode vs Slicehost vs Amazon EC2 vs Rackspace Cloud ...: <>; Linode Forum :: Why is disk space so expensive?: <>; What is a better virtual server: Linode, Slicehost, Rackspace or ...: < (2 more messages)
16:30<+qmr>ah, that's a nifty link
16:30<seanh-ansca>avenj: i have dedicated hosts for some things
16:30<avenj>seanh-ansca: that's irresponsible.
16:30<@caker>seanh-ansca: what does that even mean?
16:30*caker ponders ignore
16:31<avenj>seanh-ansca: "full disclosure" is the same as a blackhat releasing 0-days and earns you no respect from me
16:31<avenj>in the context that you're using it, I mean
16:31<avenj>(you apparently mean "immediate public disclosure")
16:31<auraka>avenj: I'd say you don't have much experience in the disclosure arena since you don't seem to understand that you can talk about risk without breaking disclosure rules
16:31<seanh-ansca>avenj: yes
16:31<avenj>auraka: every time I talk to you it is under-productive.
16:31-!-arooni-mobile [~arooni-mo@] has joined #linode
16:31<@caker>auraka: and I'd say you don't have much experience with it either, since you're wrong :)
16:31<auraka>but honestly I really hope you just try to understand that because everyone doesn't think like you doesn't make them wrong
16:31<rwheadon>i was just kinda impressed by the linbot post… i thought the linbot was actually a bot… you got me there!
16:32<auraka>caker: really? Your NDA flat out says you can't say there is a risk? Since you did that already? Does it also say you can't say if you mitigated that risk somehow?
16:32*avenj shakes his head
16:32<auraka>because I believe those were my questions
16:32<arooni-mobile>generally accepted opinion on using ext4 versus ext3 on a ubuntu production server enviornment?
16:32<avenj>never mind.
16:33<rwheadon>facebook @ 38 bucks a share anyone?
16:33<JshWright>arooni-mobile: spinning disks? I'd go with ext3
16:33<EugeneKay>arooni-mobile - ext4 if you can. Linode's panel(I'm not really sure why?) doesn't spead -4.
16:33<arooni-mobile>JshWright, why ext3
16:33<arooni-mobile>yeah spinning disks i think
16:34<JshWright>ext4 is better on SSD's, but I don't gernally bother with it for spinning media
16:34<asdfqwer>amazon over-complicates their own product with silly price packaging
16:35<JshWright>but I tend to be very conservative when it comes to things like filesystems...
16:35<asdfqwer>then again linode is actually one of the few cloud VPS hosts who doesn't
16:35<EugeneKay>arooni-mobile - best I can tell you is read the Wikipedia article on ext4 and make up your mind. I think that faster fsck, delayed allocation, and preallocation make ext4 a winner.
16:35<arooni-mobile>EugeneKay, well said
16:35<auraka>caker: ?
16:35<@caker>auraka: ?
16:36<@caker>auraka: do you like trolling?
16:36<EugeneKay>caker - is there a technical reason the Dashboard doesn't speak ext4?
16:36<@caker>EugeneKay: yes
16:36<auraka>caker: not trolling...asked a question if your saying I don't have the experience.
16:36<raymohi>Just a question what do the host's use for storage ssd or hdd?
16:36<asdfqwer>OT, but has anyone done an ec2 import or migrate?
16:36<asdfqwer>how does it compare with Linode's method?
16:36<JshWright>ext4 provides no advantage in terms of stability and reliabilty, ext3 has been around a lot longer, and isn't (practically speaking) slower than ext4 for most workloads
16:36<auraka>thank you
16:37<EugeneKay>raymohi - RAID10 10k(or is it 15k nowadays?). I believe they're 600GB disks.
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16:41<libryder>hi. i have a 512 linode with 7.7gb freespace, and i have a 15gb snapshot i want to restore to. how can i do this?
16:42<GLaDOSDan>What our customers are saying
16:42<GLaDOSDan>I sure hope he's running the latest kernel
16:42-!-userme [] has joined #linode
16:42<dcraig>you can temporarily add more space or restore to a new linode
16:43-!-JonMarkGo [] has joined #linode
16:43<@tasaro>libryder: Restore to a new Linode 512 in the same location, swap IPs, verify everything is working as expected, remove old Linode from your account.
16:43<JonMarkGo>Does anyone know how to mount my main hard disk from rescue mode on my linode?
16:43<+qmr>JonMarkGo: it ought to be in /dev/xvd*
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16:44<libryder>tasaro: so i'm going to have to pay to restore the linode from backup? i thought that would be part of the backup monthly fee?
16:44<EugeneKay>JonMarkGo -
16:44<dcraig>I think you could restore it on top of your existing linode
16:45<JonMarkGo>qmr - root@hvc0:/# mount -t xfs /dev/xvdb /mnt/xvdb
16:45<JonMarkGo>mount: /dev/xvdb already mounted or /mnt/xvdb busy
16:45<EugeneKay>libryder - you can restore to your existing Linode, but your data would get restored-over. Spring for the extra $1 for a day of a new 512.
16:45<EugeneKay>JonMarkGo - 'mount' by itself will show you what's mounted. Your mountpoint may vary, see your Configuration Profile in the dashboard.
16:45<@Perihelion>:o it's a JonMarkGo
16:46<+qmr>libryder: we do prorated refunds, you'd only need to pay for one day
16:46<libryder>qmr, that's just what i was about to ask. thanks LD
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16:47<JonMarkGo>Got it working
16:47<EugeneKay>My /dev/xvdb corresponds to my swap partition, for example.
16:49<libryder>ok, one quick question before i do this: i'm doing this because i messed up my sudoers file and can no longer sudo. can i boot into rescue mode to fix this?
16:50<EugeneKay>Mount your / partition, edit the sudoers file, reboot back to normal.
16:50<EugeneKay>Or, for less downtime, shutdown your Linode and use the reset root button, then boot & login as root.
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16:53<libryder>EugeneKay: that didn't fix the sudoers file, fyi. going to have to go into rescue mode
16:54<EugeneKay>libryder - edit sudoers as root ;-)
16:54<libryder>su root ?
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16:55<iamjarvo>i changed the name of my syslog file by mistake and my remote logging stopped working then i added a new drain to the app and the folder for the new drain is not being created
16:55<iamjarvo>basically i have a heroku app and i am piping the logs to my linode
16:56<libryder>YES! Thank you EugeneKay. I am restored
16:57-!-AviMarcus [~avi@] has joined #linode
16:59<libryder>thanks for the help. linode4life
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17:00<kbr>what a joke
17:00<EugeneKay>In other news, Mark Zuckerburg has had his in-ground pool emptied and plans to refill it with $20 bills
17:01<EugeneKay>There's an intellectual exercise - how many bills does it take to make a cubic foot, scrunched up a bit?
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17:03<+qmr>EugeneKay: when you click on the rescue tab you get to select which disk images will be which block devices in finnix
17:03<+qmr>kbr: wat.
17:03<EugeneKay>qmr - and those default to the same order as the profile(or so it seems)
17:03-!-arooni-mobile [~arooni-mo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:08<zmbmartin>Anyone here used engine yard cloud? I am familiar with and fairly comfortable with managing my own server. Any pros and cons would be great.
17:08<zmbmartin>Just looking for some insight before I choose. I have person linodes so I know I love linode.
17:09<zmbmartin>I am just slightly worried about managing the servers myself as we grow and get bigger.
17:09<EugeneKay>Never heard ofi t.
17:10<EugeneKay>Looks like the same sort of thing as AppFog, which was total crap when I tried it.
17:10<zmbmartin>EugeneKay: Yeah it is similar to AppFog or Heroku with a little more customization allowed if you know chef recipes.
17:10<EugeneKay>My preference would be to keep your stack as self-managed as possible because you can never rely upon outside vendors o not screw things completely up.
17:11<zmbmartin>EugeneKay: good point!
17:13<zmbmartin>I guess my other question is I am familiar with managing a server but I am not familiar with what kind of resources I will need. I am running rails 3 with passenger through nginx. If I get 250000 hits a day is how big of a linode should I have?
17:13<EugeneKay>Not a damned clue.
17:14<EugeneKay>I find it's easier to measure hits in terms of bandwidth used - if you cache your application properly(Varnish yay!) then a substantial portion of requests never need to make it to the actual app layer.
17:14<EugeneKay>How big would you say your average pageload / hit is? 10KiB? 100KiB? 1MiB?
17:15-!-jake [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15<EugeneKay>Also, for scaling out, it usually works better to break up your stack into several servers(with redundancy at each layer / function) rather than one big honkin' server.
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17:17*Kyhwana scales all the things
17:19<EugeneKay>For an idea of scale, 10KiB * 250,000 * 30 = 71GB/mo. That's not much. That's a fairly slim page, though.
17:19<zmbmartin>EugeneKay: Biggest page is about 400KiB
17:20<EugeneKay>If you call the average 250, then you're at ~1.7TB/mo. Each Linode 512 has 200GB of transfer
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17:22<EugeneKay>I'm not familiar with Rails in particular, but a typical web stack will have: 1) Frontend Proxy - NodeBalancers work great for this, 2) static content cache, 3) HTTP/Application servers, 4) Database servers
17:23<EugeneKay>You could combine 2 with either 1(though you'd have to roll your own, NBs don't do that) or with 3.
17:23<EugeneKay>Each piece in the stack ends up sized as big or small as makes sense for your app & average/peak load.
17:24<zmbmartin>EugeneKay: Yeah I have a lot to think about.
17:24<zmbmartin>Thanks for you input.
17:24<EugeneKay>The key points to ask yourself are: How much can you cache?(serving .html/.css/.js from disk is easy), how much RAM/CPU do my app servers need?, and how big does my DB server need to be?
17:25<Katana>the gals love a big DB server
17:25<Katana>aw yea
17:26<purrdeta>the good news is you can resize them at any point if you need to with linode :D
17:26<staticsafe>Katana: finished Index today :D
17:26<EugeneKay>Preplanning is better than resizing in the middle of a slashdot
17:26<Katana>staticsafe: jesus
17:26<kbr>i was putting a mysqld on a 256 mb
17:26<purrdeta>but its possible if you were wrong
17:26<kbr>works perfectly
17:26<staticsafe>Katana: time to download the second season :P
17:26<EugeneKay>mysqld should run on 128mb, if it doesn't do anything.
17:26<Katana>staticsafe: i guess i had a good call.
17:27<staticsafe>indeed thanks for the recommendation
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17:28*Katana pewwwwwww pewwww pewwwwwww
17:28<Tormin>if your setup is right you can resize transparently
17:30<Katana>setup all the logins!
17:31<linbot>setup is not a verb. Please see
17:31<+qmr>pwned. :D
17:32<Tormin>let me rephrase
17:32<avenj>that's not a verb :o
17:32<Kyhwana>Katana: to backup the logins for your setup!
17:32<Tormin>if your configuration is right you can resize transparently
17:35<EugeneKay>Did you use the rofl
17:36<EugeneKay>It is my position that Tormin did use "setup" correctly - it is a noun, per, even!
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17:39<rwheadon>all this racket made me setup in my chair
17:39<Tormin>i'm off to setup my setup
17:39<rwheadon>that's the hot setup
17:41<rwheadon>or as Sean Connery would say "shetup"
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17:58<@heckman>EugeneKay: agreed
17:59<avenj><avenj> that's not a verb :o
17:59<avenj>remedial english for #linode asap
17:59-!-vraa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:59<avenj>I'll get the golf clubs.
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18:10<Tormin>hmm.. my node name changed from 1 to another when the ticket closed....
18:12<kb_gt>free online comic book
18:12<staticsafe>mwalling: ^
18:12-!-kb_gt [] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2012-05-17 22:12:44)]
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18:30<rwheadon>staticsafe: thanks for not calling me out on the facebook comment!
18:30<staticsafe>wait what
18:31<rwheadon>i kinda did the same thing with the newly published facebook stock price as kb_gt did above
18:31<rwheadon>i guess I've talked a little more though
18:32<staticsafe>rwheadon: and you don't seem like a automated spam bot :)
18:32*rwheadon nods
18:32<rwheadon>that means my program has been written very well!
18:32*rwheadon emits and evil laugh
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19:08<h3llo>Hi, I have a question re forum reg... can I ask here?
19:09<h3llo>I have an active Linode account but can't seem to register for the forums.... this is the reg link {} but it's protected with a .htpasswd file...
19:10<staticsafe>read the prompt
19:10<staticsafe>the username and password is in it
19:11<h3llo>The question I'm going to post is about the firewall/IpTables setup on CentOS 6.2, I can ask it here as well?
19:12<staticsafe>go ahead
19:12<mwalling>staticsafe: glad to be of service
19:12<staticsafe>mwalling: <3
19:12<h3llo>No matter what I do with IPTables they are not working.... Im trying to create a FTP user and open port 80 but I can't open it, it seems that the IP tables are not being used at all...
19:13<staticsafe>pastebin the output of iptables -L -nv
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19:16<h3llo>The command above: and 'service iptables status'
19:16<mwalling>staticsafe: (it should be said, the network took care of it on its own. no human intervention)
19:17<staticsafe>triggered some sort of anti-flood mechanism I assume?
19:17<h3llo>But this is what I get when trying to retstart iptables: [root@li355-164 ~]# service iptables restart iptables: Flushing firewall rules: [ OK ] iptables: Setting chains to policy ACCEPT: security raw nat[FAILED]filter iptables: Unloading modules: [ OK ] [root@li355-164 ~]#
19:17<mwalling>staticsafe: sekrit
19:19-!-vraa [] has joined #linode
19:20<h3llo>Sorry, my internet went down, can you re-post anything you said...
19:20-!-h3llo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:20-!-h3llo [] has joined #linode
19:20<staticsafe>h3llo: nothing was said
19:21<h3llo>Sorry, my internet went down.... back on IRC now!!!
19:21<h3llo>Will I post in the forums?
19:22<staticsafe>h3llo: always a good idea
19:22<staticsafe>make sure to provide detailed error logs
19:22<Kyhwana>h3llo: why are you trying to do NAT?
19:23<Kyhwana>otherwise you don't seem to have any rules, so it should just work, unless you're using UFW or something?
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19:27<h3llo>Yeah, the rules are not there yet, but even if it add rules they aren't applied and I always get the error {Setting chains to policy ACCEPT: security raw nat[FAILED]filter} when I restart the service
19:29<Kyhwana>what are the rules you're trying to apply?
19:30<h3llo>Im trying to open port 80
19:30<Kyhwana>it's already open, if you don't have any firewall rules
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19:33<staticsafe>[SECURITY] [DSA 2475-1] openssl security update just got this in my inbox
19:34<EugeneKay>Its a trap.
19:34<h3llo>Kyhwana: Weird, it wasn't open before but it seems to be now!!! Do u know the ssh cmd for chking open ports?
19:35<h3llo> is reporting it as open though
19:35<Kyhwana>h3llo: sudo netstat -antp
19:36<linbot>New news from forums: CentOS 6.2 IPTables in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
19:36<Kyhwana>h3llo: or netstat -lntp rather
19:36-!-brambles_ [brambles@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:37<Kyhwana>staticsafe: from when?
19:37-!-brambles [brambles@] has joined #linode
19:37<h3llo>How would I go about opening port 21 for standard FTP?
19:37<staticsafe>7:14 PM (22 minutes ago)
19:37<staticsafe>CVE ID : CVE-2012-2333
19:37<linbot>Please use SSH/SCP/SFTP/rsync-over-ssh instead of FTP:
19:38<h3llo>I've got WS_FTP standard with no SFTP!
19:38<h3llo>Only FTP
19:38<Kyhwana>h3llo: why do you want FTP?
19:38<Kyhwana>h3llo: and if you have no firewall rules, that port is already open/unfirewalled
19:39<retro|blah>Poor openssl
19:39<lelu>unfortunatly some applications still require ftp, such as remote ip-cctv cameras and actinic shopping cart software
19:39<Kyhwana>lelu: mmm, plaintext shopping cart information
19:39<kbr>ftp sux
19:40<lelu>Kyhwana actinic also stores orders on the server and transmits them back to the controller computer via ftp... sometimes with cc details
19:40<Kyhwana>lelu: sweeet
19:40<kbr>sshfs/scp ftp
19:40<lelu>albeit as "encrypted" files
19:40<h3llo> is saying port 21 is closed and this is the output of netstat -lntp :
19:41<kbr>no ports are blocked by linode
19:41<kbr>exceptbfor irc in atlanta iirc
19:41<Kyhwana>h3llo: your ftp server isn't running
19:41<kbr>or that
19:41<kbr>do u have ftp installed?
19:41<h3llo>Im not sure!
19:41<kbr>u really shouldnt run ftp anywyas
19:41<Kyhwana>h3llo: also, your mysqld is running open to the internet. You should make it listen ong localhost. (unless you want to connect to it from outside your linode, in which case you should be firewalling it)
19:41<Kyhwana>h3llo: why do you need FTP and can't use sftp?
19:41<kbr>ya make it local only
19:42<kbr>i think its like skip-networking in my
19:42<kbr>or somehing
19:42<h3llo>WS_FTP limited edition doesnt have SFTP support
19:42<h3llo>FTP will only be temp
19:43<EugeneKay>!google filezilla
19:43<linbot>EugeneKay: FileZilla - The free FTP solution: <>; FileZilla - Client Download: <>; FileZilla - Server Download: <>; FileZilla | Free Communications software downloads at SourceForge ...: <>; FileZilla - CNET (1 more message)
19:43<h3llo>Willl I install ProFTP
19:44<h3llo>How do I check if I have ftp installed?
19:44<Kyhwana>h3llo: SFTP runs over ssh, you don't need to install anything to use it
19:45<Kyhwana>Just use filezilla to connect to your linode with your normal ssh login
19:45<h3llo>Ok cool
19:46<dcraig>anyone have a favorite free server monitoring thing?
19:46<h3llo>Do u know why when I restart the iptables service I would get this error: iptables: Setting chains to policy ACCEPT: security raw nat[FAILED]filter
19:48<Kyhwana>dcraig: nagios?
19:48-!-fisted [] has joined #linode
19:48<dcraig>no, like some web-based service
19:48<staticsafe>nagios is very fun to configure
19:48<dcraig>I wanted free !
19:49<Kyhwana>Oh, that's not free
19:49<Kyhwana>dcraig: you could install/run your own?
19:49<dcraig>I need a UaaS
19:49<Kyhwana>But then you'd need another node to monitor your monitoring node and then another one to monitor the monitoring monitor
19:49<EugeneKay>eUnuch As A Service?
19:49<dcraig>it never ends!
19:49<dcraig>uptime as a service
19:49*staticsafe hides
19:50<seanh-ansca>nagios isn't that bad with puppet imho
19:50-!-tkellen [] has joined #linode
19:51<seanh-ansca>nagios+pingdom+pagerduty and you're in decent shape for monitoring stuff
19:51<staticsafe>i've grown to love nagios
19:53<seanh-ansca>i'm not a fan of nagios config files, but with the aide of a config managment tool of some kind it's not that bad
19:53<linbot>New news from forums: Linode Android v0.8.0 in General Discussion <>
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19:53<seanh-ansca>the built in nagios stuff in puppet plus a helper like ( ) and you're in decent shape
19:54<seanh-ansca>tkellen: of going slowly?
19:54<tkellen>seanh-ansca: yup
19:54<staticsafe>seanh-ansca: yea the config is a pain
19:55<seanh-ansca>tkellen: very small world, i've been reading your blog since almost the start of your trip
19:55<dcraig>I think I will write a bash script that loads a URL and emails me if the URL doesn't load
19:55<dcraig>take that, nagios!
19:55<tkellen>that's awesome!
19:56<tkellen>how did you find us?
19:56<tkellen>are you a cycle tourist as well?
19:56<seanh-ansca>tkellen: my world adventuring is mostly relegated to a few weeks at a time, so i was satisfying my wonderlust with your stories :)
19:56*tkellen smiles broadly.
19:56<dcraig>ok where's this cycling blog?
19:57<seanh-ansca>tkellen: yes, my wife and i are. though we mostly do long weekend type trips around california
19:57<tkellen>my wife and i spent two years (2009-2011) cycling from scotland to southeast asia
19:57<tkellen>we drove across russia/mongolia though
19:58<seanh-ansca>tkellen: but i have a strange appreciation of odd places (done some wandering around africa on and off, and am an avid urban explorer )
19:58<tkellen>seanh-ansca: we're planning a tour of the US eventually. it must be GREAT to have california right out your back door
19:58<tkellen>fantastic cycling there
19:58<seanh-ansca>tkellen: i may have found it on crazyguyonabike, or maybe bikeforums? i forget
19:58<tkellen>probably bike forums, i posted there a bit when i didn't know anything about bikes
19:59<lelu>I am trying to follow but I am on debian and stuck at Configure PV-GRUB
19:59<Kyhwana>hmm, where do you get the linode API key from?
20:00<@caker>Kyhwana: My Profile (top right)
20:00-!-vraa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:00<seanh-ansca>tkellen: well, if you need a place to set up a tent in san jose, let me know when you come through :-p
20:00<tkellen>seanh-ansca: ditto for you in vermont (at least, starting next year)
20:00<@caker>lelu: you can skip that section since our "Latest 3.0" kernel has DRBD support baked in
20:01<tkellen>i'll stop spamming up the channel now--off to make dinner :)
20:01<thorrr>if i were to change Nameservers at the registrar eg from ns1 ns2, to ns3, ns4 does that time depend on the registrar only?
20:02<seanh-ansca>caker: can you do multicast on the private network?
20:02<@caker>seanh-ansca: no.
20:02<retro|blah>thorrr: Time? What time?
20:03<thorrr>like the time to propogate
20:03<@caker>propogation of the nameserver change depends on your registrar. Then, if there were actual DNS zone changes you'll need to wait until any cached resolvers expire the TTL for said records
20:04<@caker>make sense?
20:04-!-tkellen [] has quit [Quit: tkellen]
20:04<thorrr>kinda heh
20:04<lelu>caker I have noticed that but the userland version is not equal to that baked in, and documentation on upgrading userland version is flaky
20:04<@caker>lelu: ah .. painful
20:06<lelu>caker indeed
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20:09<lelu>looks like i should be able to upgrade to drbd8 testing and that will give me the right userland version
20:09<@caker>until the kernel changes :/
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20:21<lelu>yeah but then its a whole new adventure
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20:24<dcraig>if i copy an encrypted password from /etc/shadow on one machine and put it on another machine, does the password work?
20:24<lelu>well that was painless, add sid repos to apt, tell apt to use stable by default, override for rdbd userland tools and voila it works
20:25-!-tkellen [] has joined #linode
20:26<bob2>it's hashed and yes
20:26<dcraig>@bob2 thanks!
20:26<JshWright>it's not a terribly good idea though...
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20:27<dcraig>some of my hashed passwords are a third as long as the others
20:27<avenj>md5 vs sha
20:27<dcraig>at some point, ubuntu must have changed its hashing !
20:27<bob2>the first fiew bytes determine the hashing format
20:27<JshWright>what's the number between the first two dollar signs?
20:27<dcraig>JshWright, why not a terribly good idea?
20:27<avenj>what bob2 said ... on linux you normally have $1$ (md5), $5$ (sha256), $6$ (sha512)
20:28<lelu>omi its half one
20:29<JshWright>dcraig: why duplicate hashes if you don't have to?
20:29<avenj>need at least glibc2.7+ (or recent fbsd/solaris ...) for native SHA passwd support, btw ... don'
20:29<avenj>t copy to ancient boxen without knowing what you've got 8)
20:29<dcraig>JshWright, so I can say, "hey, your password works on the new server, too!"
20:29*avenj gives up typing until he's had at least three more beers.
20:29<JshWright>so long as you follow that up with "Be sure to change it after you log in", that's fine...
20:30<JshWright>better yet, force a password change
20:30<JshWright>the best option is to just copy their pub key
20:30<dcraig>people hate password changes
20:30<dcraig>lol keys
20:30<JshWright>so... security isn't a terribly high priority for these servers?
20:31<dcraig>realistically, how does copying a password hash from one server to another compromise security?
20:32<Kyhwana>caker: cheers, I checked everywhere else but there :P
20:33<JshWright>it reduces the amount of work $BAD_GUY has to do
20:33-!-marius [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:33<JshWright>by definition, identical hash entries will have identical salts
20:34<bob2>not by definition
20:34<bob2>pigeon hole principle man
20:34<bob2>but yes it is worse than not copying hashes
20:34<JshWright>'hash entries'
20:34<JshWright>i.e. the entire line in /etc/shadow that he'll be copying
20:34<bob2>there's a thousand things to worry about before that though
20:34<bob2>e.g. password shittiness
20:35<dcraig>I'm still not understanding how having the same hash on two servers makes the password easier to crack
20:35<bob2>it doesn't, it just makes it more likely /etc/shadow will be compromised
20:36<JshWright>touching /etc/shadow is almost always a bad idea
20:36<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
20:36<EugeneKay>Security through bacon.
20:37<JshWright>especially since there's an easy and safe way to do what you're trying to do (copying pub keys)
20:37<Kyhwana>hmm, the 0.8 version of the (unofficial) linode android app is neat
20:37<Kyhwana>linode should do an official one, maybe work with the author
20:37<bob2>copying pubkeys doesa different but related thing
20:37<staticsafe>there is an unofficial linode android app?!
20:38<staticsafe>link please
20:38<JshWright>bob2: it does what dcraig is trying to accomplish (in a different way)
20:38<dcraig>nobody has keys so it doesn't work
20:38<Kyhwana>It's in the market
20:38<staticsafe>ty Kyhwana
20:38<JshWright>then you're doing it wrong in the first place
20:39*dcraig tickles jshwright around a bit with a large northern lampfish
20:39<JshWright>(unless you're enforcing good passwords, dealing with brute-force attacks, and watching your logs closely)
20:40<dcraig>the passwd automatically rejects horrible passwords, and I have that fail2ban thing
20:41<dcraig>done and done!
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20:42<staticsafe>haha first thing i see on firing up that android app iss a ad for Microsoft Private Cloud
20:43<bob2>ads in apps are so classey
20:43<Kyhwana>staticsafe: haha
20:44<Kyhwana>oh, wait, you see ads? I don't :P
20:44<staticsafe>i forgot to install Adfree
20:47<Kyhwana>One of the first things I install
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21:02<bob2>microsoft's hosted exchanfge system bounces postmaster emails
21:02<bob2>I'm shocked, shocked
21:02<bob2>also angry
21:06<praetorian>shock and awe
21:06-!-lelu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:08<EugeneKay>Microsoft, violating RFCs? The gall!
21:08<linbot>New news from forums: CentOS 6.2 IPTables Error in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
21:10<bob2>terrible :(
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21:17<Kura>Hey guys how I do I give a user permission to edit files in a directory
21:17<Kura>They can read but not write
21:19-!-River_Rat is now known as RiverRat
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21:21<dcraig>Kura, use the "chmod" command
21:21<dcraig>you can type "man chmod" to read all about it
21:22<Kura>Can chmod do directories as well?
21:22<Kura>I shall try it really quick
21:22<dcraig>chmod -R makes it recursive
21:23-!-byte-smasher_ [] has joined #linode
21:23<Kura>ah cool
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21:25<danblack>Kura: not sure how you would give editing without write. seems like a specification error.
21:25-!-ix007 [] has joined #linode
21:26*dcraig tickles danblack around a bit with a large mosshead warbonnet
21:26<danblack>even before a first date. you are so forward
21:27<Kura>I didn't set permissions for the user yet. It was default like that
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21:29<swaj>anybody do media streaming at home? I'm looking for a streaming server that does live transcoding and supports roku and iOS
21:29<swaj>and preferably runs on Linux
21:30<Solver>I did a commercial project with the (non FOSS) Abobe streaming server
21:30<Solver>iirc it was possible to get a limited licence for free
21:30<Solver>10 clients ot some such
21:30<Kyhwana>swaj: like, DNLA stuff or rtsp stuff?
21:30<dcraig>is there any danger in enabling ACLs? like, does anything break?
21:31<dcraig>i would hate to break something
21:31-!-TimTim [] has joined #linode
21:32<swaj>Kyhwana: basically, I'd like to be able to stream media on my LAN (and possible over the internet) without having keep 14 versions of the same file. Live transcoding.
21:32-!-karstensrage [] has quit []
21:33<EugeneKay>dcraig - package managers will stomp on them, and some stuff freaks out because the g permissions end up looking less restrictive than they are(acl coopts them to be the mask, not the group). But generally, no, it works fine.
21:33-!-karstensrage [] has joined #linode
21:34<EugeneKay>I roll with rw,noatime,acl as the mount-opts on (almost) all of my filesystems
21:35<Kyhwana>swaj: something using mencoder/ffmpeg?
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21:41<bob2>it's fine for /home afaic
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21:57<swaj>looks like is what I'm looking for :)
21:57<swaj>I can install it on a linux server along with SABnzbd+ and have fun :P
21:58<Kura>hey guys quick question. would chmod g+rw ~ add r/w permissions to all the groups i'm in?
21:59<dcraig>it modifies the permissions for the group that owns the files
22:00<Kura>Ah. How do I switch the group that owns the files?
22:00<dcraig>SABnzbd+ looks like a decent password
22:00-!-MissionCritical is now known as Guest508
22:00<dcraig>with the chown command
22:00<dcraig>or maybe just chgrp
22:00<Kura>all right i'll look at that
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22:12<Kyhwana>mutt!? pine is where it's at
22:14<swaj>lol pine
22:19-!-sent [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:21<kbr>is pine cli?
22:21<kbr>also i think pine is discontinued
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22:29<Katana>did someone burn down the pine forest?
22:31*staticsafe slaps Katana with a copy of AIX
22:32-!-bd_ [~nanashi@2600:3c01::21:30bd] has quit [Quit: ]
22:33*Katana smacks staticsafe with AIX 2
22:33*staticsafe retaliates with Windows ME
22:33-!-sent [] has joined #linode
22:34*Katana beats staticsafe down with Norton 360
22:35-!-bd_tmp [] has joined #linode
22:35*Katana grabs McAfee and uppercuts staticsafe with it
22:36*staticsafe dies with his last words being "SAVE ME DEBIAN!!"
22:37-!-skcin7 [] has quit []
22:38*Daevien beats staticsafe & Katana with a copy of Vista
22:38<Katana>not even debian can save you
22:38<Katana>fedora could, but doesn't give enough of a damn
22:38*staticsafe calls upon the gods of Gentoo
22:39<Daevien>sadly i do have to deal with vista machines at work, it sucks. though once you get sp2 on, it's somewhat usable
22:39<Katana><Gentoo is away: compiling>
22:40<Kura>Hey guys I'm trying to give a user to write permissions to write files in my home directory. Chmod doesn't seem to work.
22:40<@heckman>An particular reason it needs to be your home folder, and not a folder outside of both of your homes?
22:41<@heckman>Woah Daevien, haven't seen you here in awhile
22:41<Kyhwana>man chmod
22:41-!-skcin7 [] has joined #linode
22:42<Daevien>heckman: i float in and out once in a while.. work been driving me crazy and ankle still bothers me after work so i dont have all that much energy to be here
22:42<@heckman>I'm not sure what kind of hardware you use to IRC.... :x
22:42<Kura>my home folder holds a website
22:43<Daevien>linode + tmux + irssi = irc & bitlbee stuff. i just dont feel like being social most of the time after work :p
22:43-!-skcin7 [] has quit []
22:44<Kura>I'm pretty sure I'm doing chmod weird
22:45<@heckman>I'd recommend putting the files in /srv/www/<domain>
22:45-!-skcin7 [] has joined #linode
22:46<Kura>Why is that recommended out of curiosity
22:47-!-Kura_ [] has joined #linode
22:47<@heckman>Because then it's not in one person's home folder, if multiple users need to edit it.
22:47<Kura_>haha true
22:48<@heckman>That'd be like someone coming in to your house and rearranging your furniture while you're gone.
22:49<chesty>you mean mom?
22:49*Daevien rearranges heckman's furniture
22:50<@heckman>Please do, not sure I dig the current way it's thrown together.
22:50<@heckman>Reminds me, I need to take the Christmas tree down :|
22:50<chesty>Daevien: gross euphemism
22:51<Daevien>chesty: eww
22:51<chesty>you said it
22:51*Daevien lights the christmas tree on fire, no need to take it down now!
22:51<Katana>that was a christmas tree?
22:52<staticsafe> yay for sites respecting DNT
22:54-!-Kura [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:56<Daevien>and it's even twitter, crazy
22:57-!-userme [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:58<Kyhwana>staticsafe: wow, nice
22:58<Kyhwana>wonder if that works for
22:58<staticsafe>I don't get any tracking either way, Ghostery <3
22:58*Kyhwana has ttytter deshorten urls using a tor proxy
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23:11<linbot>New news from forums: How To Install phpmyadmin in Ubuntu 10.4 in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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23:32<Axsuul>Hello, I was wondering how would I go about adjusting my servers for traffic with linode? For example, if I get a burst of traffic and I need to scale up immediately
23:33<@caker>Axsuul: hey -- you can use the resize tab and upgrade to a larger Linode - however that takes a little bit of downtime while your bits are moved to a different server
23:33<@caker>another option would be to use a NodeBalancer and a few back-end Linodes ... can add more backends as you need them without downtime
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23:38<Axsuul>caker: ah i see, would that be using the same database?
23:39<Tormin>Axsuul if that is the way you configure it yes
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23:42<Tormin>the one thing i would like to see is the ability to clone a disk image added to the API
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23:50<linbot>New news from forums: Postfix and Postfix Admin's MySQL databases in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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23:59<linbot>Point (0.52765040, 0.89435413) falls outside of the unit circle. Hits: 111458 of 141479 (π ≈ 3.151223856544081 - 0.009631202954288). http://π
---Logclosed Fri May 18 00:00:37 2012