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#linode IRC Logs for 2013-04-21

---Logopened Sun Apr 21 00:00:00 2013
---Daychanged Sun Apr 21 2013
00:00<HoopyCat>i changed the setpoint so it's filling less fastly
00:00<linbot>Point (0.87485784, 0.92672752) falls outside of the unit circle. Hits: 435017 of 553596 (π ≈ 3.143209127233578 - 0.001616473643785). http://π
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00:04<jchen>i need a better freebsd server so that i can build freebsd for xen...
00:04<jchen>building an entire OS with one core isn't terribly fun
00:04<macboy_417|ZNC>theres no place like localhost
00:05<gparent>yeah, ip6-localhost
00:05<macboy_417|ZNC>pkg ng
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00:18<linbot>New news from forum: can't use use SSL anymore since uninstalling xinetd in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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00:23<gparent>may 4-5 needs to happen faster
00:24<Kim>What happens then?
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00:24<gparent>debian 7 might come out
00:24<@Praefectus>MAY THE FOURTH dude
00:24<bob2>'star wars day' reference are slapping offences
00:25<Ikaros>And that will be upgrade day for me. :D
00:26<Ikaros>My system's other boot has had Debian 7 while it was in testing phase.
00:30<linbot>New news from forum: can't use use SSL anymore since uninstalling xinetd in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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00:52<EugeneKay>I miss the lulz
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01:21<TeddyR>q: anyone have the link for the instructions on how to backup a linode to a local machine and start it up using virtualbox? I seem to remember seeing it in the library a while back... but cant seem to locate it now...
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01:23<@Praefectus>look in migrations
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01:32<TeddyR>praefectus: those all seem to have the instructions going the wrong way..local to linode or linode to linode..I am looking for linode to local. My questions were on what needs to be done once the disk has been copied... will it boot? do I need to do something using finnix on the VirtualBox machine first to get it to boot a kernel...? What I want to do is get my image to a local machine so that
01:32<TeddyR>I can test things on it without affecting the production machine(s).. (and as a backup of course)
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01:39<@Praefectus>linode to you:
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01:43<TeddyR>that has the instruction on making the image, but not on what needs to be done to boot the image in VB.. (maybe how to convert the image to use grub or something like that....)
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01:57<learner>guys the howtoforge tutorial does two locations one for /phpmyadmin and another for /phpMyAdmin and for the second does this location /phpMyAdmin { rewrite ^/* /phpmyadmin last; } can i instead create a location ~* /phpmyadmin and not do the two
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02:10<linbot>New news from forum: Fremont.... Unwanted stepchild? in General Discussion <>
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02:15<tubaguy50035>Who runs linsides?
02:15<@Praefectus>poor fremont
02:15<kyhwana>stupid fremont
02:15<linbot>New news from forum: Fremont.... Unwanted stepchild? in General Discussion <>
02:16<@Praefectus>tubaguy50035: you know how to use whois, right?
02:16<tubaguy50035>-_- yes, just thought I'd ask
02:18<kyhwana>I need to reboot snowleopard anyway :P
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02:40<kyhwana>Praefectus: herp durp, just got told can't get RAM upgraded in fremont
02:42*tubaguy50035 waits for Praefectus's forum post to magically disappear
02:42<@Praefectus>kyhwana: when and by who?
02:42*Praefectus disappears tubaguy50035
02:42*tubaguy50035 is gone
02:42<kyhwana>ticket 1755314, by "jsteadman"
02:43<tubaguy50035>oh snap. someone's gunna get told!
02:44<jstead>kyhwana: check that ticket in just a min
02:44<linbot>New news from forum: Fremont.... Unwanted stepchild? in General Discussion <>
02:44<chesty>HoopyCat: you know that story about fremont running out of space so linode couldn't deploy more servers? that was a lie. it was due to money, and a restructuring of accounts eventually fixed it. believe it or not. I won't stand by this statement. this is not a statement
02:48<kyhwana>woohoo, 3 linodes instead of 2 XD
02:48<kyhwana>(I assume the 1024 is a clone of the 512)
02:48<jstead>kyhwana: haha
02:48<jstead>please standby
02:49<@Praefectus>just billing adjustments, you only have 2,we're now charging you for 3 though
02:49<@Praefectus>hey, thats the price of advanced ram upgrades in fremont
02:49*kyhwana borrows one of Praefectus's 16GB nodes then ;)
02:49<amitz>chesty: is this a fight club?
02:49<linbot>New news from forum: 1 linode for mail and web vs 1 for mail and 1 for web in Email/SMTP Related Forum <> || Fremont.... Unwanted stepchild? in General Discussion <>
02:49<Peng_>You mean, that's the price of Praefectus's new Benz.
02:50<@Praefectus>kyhwana: 16gb? peasant! I USE 40GB!
02:50<chesty>amitz: can't be, otherwise we couldn't talk about it
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02:52<jstead>kyhwana: please check the ticket =]
02:53<Solupus>is it easier for someone to hack my linode if there is smpt?
02:53<Peng_>You mean smtp?
02:54<Peng_>Not really, assuming you configure things properly and keep them up-to-date.
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02:54<kyhwana>jstead: sweet, thanks
02:54<jstead>kyhwana: you are welcome.. sorry about the slight confusion
02:54<linbot>New news from forum: 1 linode for mail and web vs 1 for mail and 1 for web in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
02:55<kyhwana>np :)
02:56<kyhwana>right, brb.
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02:57<chesty>could i get my ram doubled please like kyhwana
03:00<Kyh>chesty: you get yours halved so I could get mine doubled!
03:00<chesty>the maths don't add up
03:01<@Praefectus>need overhead
03:01<chesty>half of 100 is 50 a difference of 50, double 100 is 200, a difference of 100
03:01<@Praefectus>i took a quarter of your 40GB, gave some to Kyh and added the rest to my own linodes
03:01<@Praefectus>err, 3/4
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03:05<chesty>slowest reboot in the history or reboots
03:05<Kyh>well, it's a migration
03:06<chesty>you finally woke up about your location?
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03:08<learner>Praefectus: remember my problem with phpmyadmin saying I needed a blowfish password
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03:09<learner>it turns out it's because phpmyadmin now stores the blowfish password file in /var/lib/phpmyadmin/
03:09<@Praefectus>im 2,117 years old, my memory isnt so good anymore
03:09<chesty>plus it'd 420
03:09<learner>if you don't add that to basedir in php.ini, it won't open it and hence will show the error
03:09<@Praefectus>4/21 here
03:10<chesty>it's 420 for Praefectus everyday
03:10*Praefectus can pass a drug test
03:10<learner>4/21 is roughly 0.19 :P
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03:13<Kyh>It's actually 2013/04/21
03:14<learner>i asked this earlier, but didn't get an answer
03:14<learner>guys the howtoforge tutorial does two locations one for /phpmyadmin and another for /phpMyAdmin and for the second does this location /phpMyAdmin { rewrite ^/* /phpmyadmin last; } can i instead create a location ~* /phpmyadmin and not do the two
03:14<learner>sorry i know it's late:P
03:16<tubaguy50035>maybe I missed something.... what are you trying to do?
03:16<learner>trying to make sure generated links that come out of phpmyadmin which sometimes are in the form of phpMyAdmin instead of phpmyadmin get redirected to phpmyadmin uri
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03:17<learner>i understand that ~* means case insensitive
03:17<tubaguy50035>apache or nginx?
03:18<jstead>kyhwana: wow, you are IRC-ing so much more smooth with 1024
03:18<kyhwana>jstead: sah-weeet
03:18<kyhwana>jstead: (actually, lets see if I can run my irc stats scripts without OOMing now)
03:20<tubaguy50035>learner: looking at howtoforge, it looks like it does that inside the first location block with images
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03:20<tubaguy50035>so long lol
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03:24<learner>sorry irc kicked me out, did anyone perhaps answer my question while i was gone?
03:24<@Praefectus>kyhwana did
03:24<@Praefectus>pm him
03:24<kyhwana>Praefectus: -.- I hate you*
03:24<learner>i won't pm you don't worry
03:25<kyhwana>(*Not really)
03:25<tubaguy50035>learner: are the two location blocks a problem?
03:25<tubaguy50035>that howtoforge config seems... like you could just copy and paste it
03:26<kyhwana>Praefectus: just steal more of chesty's
03:26<@Praefectus>id feel bad though.. hes already down to 64mb
03:26<learner>no tubaguy50035 not a problem per say i just think it's extra work for the server to rewrite all requests and have to evaluate them like that
03:26<tubaguy50035>learner: how many people will be visiting this installation of phpmyadmin?
03:27<learner>maybe 5-10 people in the IT department
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03:27<tubaguy50035>all at the same time?
03:27<learner>but this isn't just for that, i'm trying to learn the right way of doing things for other things too
03:27<chesty>why don't you experiment?
03:27<learner>i did
03:27<tubaguy50035>yeah, why not just try it and see what happens?
03:27<learner>i didn't notice a difference
03:28<learner>both worked fine
03:28<tubaguy50035>what were you expecting?
03:28<learner>i don't have the tools to benchmark and see which one's better
03:28<learner>hence why i'm asking
03:29<tubaguy50035>less rewrite should require less cpu
03:29<tubaguy50035>but... you're trying to fix a crack in a knob on the radio of a broken down car.
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03:30<learner>perhaps you're right
03:31<learner>in our own apps, devs should konw better than to mix up cases
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03:31<tubaguy50035>also, you're using php. if you care about performance down to one more rewrite making a difference... you shouldn't use php.
03:31<learner>yeah for the app i'm doing i'll be using django
03:31<linbot>New news from forum: Proxy Attempts in Log? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
03:31<learner>i can't control what others will use
03:32<tubaguy50035>do you really need phpmyadmin? MySQL workbench is really nice.
03:34<learner>phpmyadmin is a last resort, not really gonna be too much in use, as i said i was trying to learn the best uses, not just for this particular example
03:34<learner>and i appreciate the input
03:35<tubaguy50035>the less the server does, the less resources it uses. It just comes down to how far you want to go.
03:36<pianoman>hi, does anyone know what the standard linode NIC bandwidth limits are? i think i saw a forum post saying 50 mbps?
03:36<tubaguy50035>they were all upped recently
03:36<kyhwana>pianoman: it's not 250mbit outbound
03:36<chesty>it's 250 outgoing now, no limit incoming
03:36<learner>yeah why don't you pm Praefectus jk :P
03:37<pianoman>awesome, thanks
03:37<learner>250 Kbps outgoing?
03:37<tubaguy50035>kyhwana: it's not? :P
03:37<learner>sorry Mbps?
03:37<pianoman>er, sorry, so what is it outbound?
03:37<kyhwana>damnit, i'm tired
03:37<tubaguy50035>250 Mbps pianoman
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03:38<pianoman>ok, cool - thanks
03:38<learner>250 Mbps is huge
03:38<linbot>tubaguy50035: Yo mommas so dumb, she tried to exorcize the daemons from her Linode! (751:16/4) [momur]
03:39<learner>we should make some coffee for poor Praefectus
03:39<learner>just make sure not to add too much marijuana to it
03:40<tubaguy50035>s/too much/any
03:40*kyhwana snickers
03:40<learner>oh come on, a little doesn't hurt does it
03:40<kyhwana>I don't think weed goes too well with coffee
03:40<learner>the flowers go well
03:40<dcraig>hey that's why they call it a pot of coffee
03:41<learner>but they're more expensive
03:41<kyhwana>dcraig: Oohhh
03:41<learner>exactly dcraig
03:43<learner>hey guys do you know what's the fastest net connection you can get now?
03:43<learner>4 Gbps is the highest right?
03:43<kyhwana>learner: what kind?
03:43<dcraig>can't you somehow "bond" multiple 10 gigabit ethernet connections together?
03:43<learner>fibre optics
03:43<kyhwana>10/100Gbps exist
03:44<learner>is that one single connection or is it load balanced?
03:45<pianoman>net connections (eg ISP) aren't typically sold beyond 10G circuits
03:45<learner>is a 10 G one single line of connection of fibre optics?
03:46<learner>or is it multiple ones somehow bonded and load balanced
03:46<pianoman>yes, it's a single connection
03:46<jstead>see: wave division multiplex
03:46<pianoman>the next step up (40G) is essentially bonding of 4 x 10G
03:46<dcraig>why are they going to 40 and not 100? running out of steam?
03:47<Peng_>100 exists too now, I think.
03:47<pianoman>i think the optics and ASIC's for 100G are very expensive still, and most people don't need that much bandwidth
03:47<pianoman>so 40G has been a convenient bridge for the last few years
03:48<Peng_>4 Gbps exists, too, doesn't it?
03:48<Peng_>heh, ok
03:48<pianoman>that's just bonding of 1G links
03:49<learner>Modern systems can handle up to 160 signals and can thus expand a basic 10 Gbit/s system over a single fiber pair to over 1.6 Tbit/s.
03:49<learner>what does that mean?
03:49<learner>that a single fibre can carry up to 1.6 Tbps?
03:50<pianoman>that's DWDM
03:50<pianoman>basically you have an optic that runs at some rate (1G or 10G)
03:50<pianoman>then you phase shift it up some number of nanometers in light
03:50<pianoman>(to a different band per "pair")
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03:51<pianoman>which lets you run lots of different circuits through the same physical piece of fiber
03:51<learner>uhh i see
03:51<pianoman>then at the other end you convert it back to the original wavelength and connect it to a normal fiber optic interface
03:51<learner>so you have to pairs of fibre optics running between your transcievers
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03:51<pianoman>yeah, just spacing out each point to point circuit in to its own band of light
03:52<learner>and you just time shift
03:52<learner>ok, won't this lower the quality of singal?
03:52<pianoman>it's not time shifting as in inter-splicing; all the different wavelengths can basically co-exist simultaneously AFAIK
03:52<learner>interference and such
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03:53<learner>ok so something like multiplexing a light combo of different wavelengths
03:53<pianoman>you need really high quality fiber to do DWDM
03:53<learner>like sunlight
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03:55<learner>pitty, in australia we're limited on speed
03:55<learner>it's good, but like it could be better
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03:57<michael__>linode v. digitalocean anyone?
03:57<Peng_>Pillow fight?
03:58<Peng_>Wikipedia says that terabit Ethernet ought to be developed within the next couple years. @_@
03:58<Peng_>and 100 terabit by 2020
03:59<learner>that would be super sweet
03:59<learner>but it's not useful until we increase disk io, ram io, etc too
03:59<learner>or i should say very useful
04:00<chesty>i'm not even on 100mbs yet
04:01<chesty>when will wireless catch up?
04:01<Peng_>as soon as the government sells my consortium all of the spectrum
04:01<Peng_>I swear
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04:03<learner>our company's getting 1 Gbps at the end by october :D
04:03<learner>can't wait till we get it
04:08<jchen>maybe i shouldn't enter the "freebsd-on-linode" operation at 4am
04:08<@Praefectus>DO IT
04:09<tubaguy50035>michael__: anything you want to know?
04:10<michael__>debating a move from digitalocean
04:10<michael__>just curious how performance is on linode vs do
04:10<jchen>free trial
04:10<jchen> <--- see for yourself
04:10<tubaguy50035>michael__: cpu is better, io is worse.
04:10<michael__>^exactly what i thought w/o ssd
04:10<jchen>at best
04:11<michael__>8 core is nice
04:11<Peng_>Has that been updated?
04:11<jchen>entry from 2009, still has slicehost
04:11<tubaguy50035>-_- no
04:12<Peng_>Linode vs. Slicehost, go!
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04:12<tubaguy50035>michael__: definitely try it out. Also, you'll find the network is much happier here
04:12<tubaguy50035>and by happy, I mean fast
04:13<michael__>haha sounds good, just set it up
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04:13<michael__>thx guys
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04:15<learner>jstead: the network thing has changed too
04:15<learner>it used to be 200GB now it's 2TB
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04:21<learner>haha another oz
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04:41<learner>what's the main difference between kvm and xen?
04:41<bob2>the kvm uses lunix as the hypervisor and is 1000x less fiddly
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04:42<learner>ok so you can't have a different type of linux running on a specific kernel?
04:42<bob2>I don't know what that means
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04:43<learner>like here you can have free-bsd, which aren't particularly linux
04:43<learner>and you can have whatever kernel you want run
04:43<learner>but in kvm you can't right
04:44<Peng_>KVM supports non-Linux guests.
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04:45<learner>i think i'll add this to my free time reading
04:46<learner>i wanna see how these two systems work
04:46<kyhwana>learner: to wikipedia!
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04:46<jchen>COOL, netbsd doesn't like ext3 for some reason
04:46<jchen>thats just awesome, even tho 3 is backwards compatible with 2
04:48<learner>jchen: are you serious? ext3 isn't a new standard
04:48<Peng_>ext3 isn't a standard period.
04:49<learner>whatever you want to call it, i think of it as a file management standard
04:49<Peng_>It's a filesystem.
04:49<jstead>w/ journaling capabilities
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04:52<learner>anyway, it's surprising how netbsd doesn't support ext3
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04:54<Peng_>Why is it surprising? It's rare for filesystems to be supported by multiple OSes.
04:54<Peng_>Except for FAT32.
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04:56<learner>cause mac os supports it i guess
04:56<learner>i thought since mac osx is a form of bsd ...
04:56<learner>maybe i'm thinking incorrectly
04:57*jchen sigh
04:57<jchen>i guess i'll do this tomorrow then
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05:41<linbot>New news from forum: Upgrading from Ubuntu 12.04 LTS to 12.10 in General Discussion <>
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06:34<hays>Peng_: it would be nice if FreeBSD and Linux read each other's main file system though
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06:37<Peng_>That's why everyone should use ZFS!
06:37<chesty>everyone with 4GB of memory to spare just for the FS
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06:38<Peng_>Hmm, good point. It's cheaper memory-wise to just boot up the other OS in a VM.
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06:40<XReaper>screw bsd bloat
06:41<@Praefectus>i think "screw gentoo" rhymes better
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06:50<linbot>New news from forum: can't use use SSL anymore since uninstalling xinetd in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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08:01<linbot>New news from forum: can't use use SSL anymore since uninstalling xinetd in Web Servers and Web App Development <> || Unixbench Results - post free upgrade in Performance and Tuning <> || Rdiff-backup with SSHFS Performance in General Discussion <>
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08:06<linbot>New news from forum: Proxy Attempts in Log? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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08:12<linbot>New news from forum: Proxy Attempts in Log? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
08:18<linbot>New news from forum: Unixbench Results - post free upgrade in Performance and Tuning <>
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08:28<linbot>New news from forum: can't use use SSL anymore since uninstalling xinetd in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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08:34<linbot>New news from forum: Anyone already moved to new E5-2670 hardware? in General Discussion <>
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08:46<linbot>New news from forum: can't use use SSL anymore since uninstalling xinetd in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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08:51<HoopyCat>chesty: i just like blaming the california air resource board
08:51<linbot>New news from forum: Daily hour long CPU spike in General Discussion <>
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08:56<linbot>New news from forum: can't use use SSL anymore since uninstalling xinetd in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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09:03<amitz>what is the meaning of "These attacks can be prevented by cryptographically binding renegotiation handshakes to the enclosing TLS cryptographic parameters"
09:04<amitz>in . does this basically imply that the renegotiation handshake itself will be as most as good as the first negotiated protocol?
09:06<amitz>s/as most as good as/at best to be as good as/
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09:08<linbot>New news from forum: Daily hour long CPU spike in General Discussion <>
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09:13<linbot>New news from forum: Daily hour long CPU spike in General Discussion <>
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10:00<trippeh>Hrms, after my ISP moved IPv6 transit from Telia to Cogent, Linode UK <-> here has gone from 6-700Mbps to 2-3Mbps :P
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10:08<imikay>Hi, is there any way I can know the exact time of when my server memory will be upgraded?
10:08<@Praefectus>are you in fremont?
10:09<imikay>No, in tokyo
10:09<@Praefectus>click the upgrades available box
10:09<synapt>the linode manager should show you a queue once you enter it
10:09<synapt>I mean as in what spot you're in line
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10:09<synapt>I don't think they can really give an 'exact' time
10:10<trippeh>The queues have drained by now I think?
10:10<trippeh>So it should be pretty much instant.
10:10<synapt>minus the time it takes to upgrade anyways
10:10<synapt>(to not imply the upgrade would be instant)
10:11<praetorian>i have a 'Praefectus' button in my linode manager.
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10:11<imikay>ok, I will try to upgrade in midnight today
10:11<praetorian>clicking it redirects me to
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10:22<linbot>New news from forum: migration issue in General Discussion <>
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10:35<linbot>New news from forum: Longview - Show PID/PPID/proc information in Current Betas <>
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10:41<linbot>New news from forum: migration issue in General Discussion <>
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11:22<lakridserne>So everyone did calm down after the attack again...
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11:36<learner>hey guys i created a username and password for my postfix to connect to my mysql server as described on the tutorial, however when testing the first postmap it says access denied, i think it may be due to the password as it has special chars in it, is there a way to escape special chars in the file
11:36<learner>let's say the password containd the '|' char
11:37<learner>i want to escape it so the config can log in
11:37<@akerl_>A) The password shouldn't be in mysql's config, it should be in postfix's config. And I'll be pretty surprised if postfix doesn't allow special chars in passwords
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11:38<linbot>New news from forum: Caching Questions in Performance and Tuning <>
11:39<learner>yes it is. it's called, i just abbreviated it
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11:40<learner>i can log in to mysqladmin using that no problem
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11:44<@akerl_>and you can log in with mysql using that user and password from the command line?
11:45<bacon>learner, what's your password? We'll escape it for you.
11:46<bacon>no, man, I was being facetious.
11:46<@akerl_>for the love of all things
11:46<learner>it's fine, i'm changing it
11:47<bacon>I generally don't like using slashes in passwords, as it causes the same issues as what you are having
11:47<learner>i just want to know how to use a safe password and get postfix to use it
11:47<learner>ok so other ones work?
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11:48<@akerl_>learner: I'd suggest checking the postfix docs
11:48<learner>underline, hat, ...
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11:49<bacon>concatenate some of these lines:
11:51<bacon>or, just use one line. 2^119 is plenty.
11:51<learner>bacon: that's alphanumeric only
11:51<learner>no special chars in it
11:51<bacon>I know that
11:52<learner>i was hoping to be able to use specialchars to make the password more secure
11:52<bacon>Considering you are storing it in a file on your server?
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11:53<bacon>bruteforce against mysql takes a bit longer than bruteforce hashing.
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11:57<learner>so Nivex you're saying the length of the password is more important than the range of chars used
11:57<@akerl_>learner: You do realize the humor in adding special characters to add entropy to a password you're storing in cleartext in a file?
11:57<Nivex>learner: I didn't say it, Randall Munroe did. I happen to agree with it though.
11:58<Nivex>there's a nice tool in the debian package repos called "pwgen" if you don't want to use a web page, and it has flags to control what kinds of chars, how long, etc
11:58<TeddyR>one of the servers was sluggish today... after over 200 days uptime on that "box", didnt realize how many runaway "screens" there were floating about.... :-) [screen -list is your friend]
11:58<learner>ok but some considerations, i'm doing setting the ownership of that to postfix and removing read priviledges fro other users
11:58<learner>won't that matter
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12:00<bacon>TeddyR, yup, I have a friend who insists on screenception.
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12:01<learner>screen displays the sock files?
12:01<amitz>i do screenception since the boxes i must pass through have screen.
12:03<puppet>im just laughing right now
12:03<puppet>so hard
12:04<puppet>learner continues to amaze and amuse in here, it is so awesome
12:04<learner>have fun at my expense fine ... goes and sits at the corner upset
12:04<bacon>learner, ignore the puppet
12:05<bacon>It is not healthy to talk to inanimate objects, unless you're Gipetto
12:05<puppet>bacon: you missed a really intresting nginx conversation this night
12:05<bacon>I had a shower the other night, and had an epiphany
12:06<bacon>I finally understood nginx
12:06<bacon>or, the point of it
12:06<bacon>I was trying to make it be too much like apache
12:06<puppet>bacon: thats the worst you can do :) but sometimes I do miss htaccess files
12:06<staticsafe>htaccess is overrated
12:07<learner>htaccess is like a protector who can't protect itself
12:08<bacon>puppet, yeh, I have figured that if I need an htaccess, I'm doing something wrong.
12:08<bacon>w.r.t. nginx
12:08<puppet>bacon: most stuff that is ready made to, works with nginx also, jsut needs to retink the approach
12:09<puppet>bacon: installed a small urlshortnerer for work, for campaigns and stuff, and of course, all where made for apache
12:09<@akerl_>bacon: About the only case where htaccess is "useful" is when you want to give people with only file access the ability to modify config options
12:09<@akerl_>Which is generally a bad plan
12:09<bacon>retink -> typo, but it works
12:09<bacon>akerl_, i don't let others molest my servers.
12:09<bacon>I can fsck them up myself :)
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12:13<learner>i'm still not quite sure why one would need screen's virtual thing
12:14<learner>will you be able to switch between screens using ctrl+A while editing a file in one screen and installing something in another?
12:15<puppet>i use it for IRC, fo backend scripts
12:15<bacon>and for things that don't daemonize themselves properly
12:15<ratrace_>supervisord ftw
12:15<ratrace_>bacon: ^^
12:16<bacon>Sweet, i could use that
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12:16<learner>how does it work with irc puppet ?
12:16<ratrace_>I run PHP with that since CentOS doesn't have phpfpm and I'm not using the remi repo
12:17<bacon>Can it run multiple things at the same time, and start and stop them individually?
12:17<puppet>ratrace_: that do look pretty nice
12:17<mwalling>learner: google for "f0rked screen irssi"
12:17<bacon> /about is TL
12:17*HedgeMage peeks in
12:17<learner>ty mwalling
12:17<puppet>ratrace_: i created a init.d script for phpfpm for centos
12:17<bacon>learner, or, just use a BNC
12:17<puppet>but, that there looks really nice
12:18<bacon>and connect to that how you want when you want
12:18<ratrace_>yeah you can use it for various stuff
12:18<ratrace_>pretty generic
12:18<puppet>ratrace_: what if you want to start 10 instances of one script, does it keep track of that?
12:19<bacon>ratrace_, does it make tea?
12:19<ratrace_>it's even in default CentOS/RHEL repo
12:19<ratrace_>puppet: I think the newer versions do
12:19<puppet>ratrace_: time to test that then ,)
12:19<puppet>can start all my cheryrpys with that one then
12:19<bacon>How does puppet start/stop things? Via the initd scripts?
12:20<ratrace_>if configured so, yes
12:20<bacon>Need to get to know puppet
12:20<puppet>i use puppet to do installs and puppet uses start/stop/status/restart
12:20<puppet>god this is so confusing now can we stop talking about puppet now ? ;P
12:20<bacon>yeh, i figured puppet
12:21<puppet>you should see me in #puppet ...
12:21<bacon>Highlighting goes mad?
12:21<ratrace_>puppet is bloated and hard to fiddle with its certs, also does not support ipv6
12:21<puppet>well, i turned of generic hilighting, so it just hilights if it starts with puppet now
12:21<puppet>so not as bad as before
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12:21<puppet>ratrace_: i am looking into salt stack to control our servers, but maybe will just use this instead
12:22<ratrace_>puppet: try Ansible
12:22<ratrace_>puppet: but that's push, not pull (which I like)
12:22<ratrace_>although it has teh ability to pull
12:23<puppet>well I got puppet setup for installs and setting all up, but i need something to control servers
12:23<ratrace_>puppet: Fabric?
12:23<ratrace_>Python Fabric
12:23<bacon>And of those integrate with supervisord?
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12:24<ratrace_>anything "integrates" with supervisord
12:24<ratrace_>it's just a daemon master
12:24<ratrace_>gasp.... a supervisor! :D
12:24<bacon>and does whatever you order it to
12:24<bacon>i get it
12:25<puppet>ratrace_: testing it now
12:25<puppet>ratrace_: that there would work perfect for our game servers, oh wait i already coded a init.d for it ;P
12:26<ratrace_>puppet: did you code it to restart a service if it bails out?
12:26<puppet>ratrace_: got a bash script that runs a for loop
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12:26<puppet>ratrace_: sleep 10 seconds, then start it again
12:26<ratrace_>puppet: supervisord takes care of that
12:26<puppet>ratrace_: yeah i saw that, so it is a bit more "clean" solution
12:27<bacon>our stupid custom-built app that does that kind of thing send a notification email on every restart. Problem is, some things crash a few thousand times a day.
12:27<puppet>ratrace_: the difference is that in my bash script i send all log file to syslog to log all on one place, and it doesnt seem like it handles that, or well, will read a bit more abuout it, would be nice
12:27<bacon>averaging 15k emails a day :/
12:27<puppet>bacon: lol, i just get email if it segfaults
12:28<staticsafe>15k emails O_o
12:28<bacon>yeh, we have libs with exits all over the place, and plenty of segfaults
12:28<bacon>but, dev doesn't want to fix these things
12:28<puppet>we just have one lib we use, except libc
12:28<bacon>"too busy" or some such shit
12:28<ratrace_>puppet: afaik supervisord does log so you can track restarts too (afaik!)
12:28<puppet>ratrace_: well, its more i want all log output to go to Syslog
12:28<puppet>ratrace_: so we cna use our log searching tool to search all servers at once
12:29<bacon>every dev that has ever worked at this company had their own utility lib they wrote. So, there are more than 20 logging apis, for e.g.
12:29<bacon>Zero coding standards.
12:29<ratrace_>puppet: check the docs, it supports syslog
12:29<puppet>lol bacon...
12:29<puppet>ratrace_: then i will say, thanks, stop discussin, and set it up right now
12:29<puppet>ratrace_: :)
12:29<puppet>ratrace_: some of my things do @reboot in crontab ;P
12:30<linbot>New news from forum: Sending mail works and receiving mail fails.... in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
12:30<ratrace_>bacon: pretty simple to fix that with a lock file
12:31<bacon>ratrace_, they are still figuring how to use CVS properly.
12:31<ratrace_>bacon: touch /var/run/sentemails.duh when the email is sent, and don't send unless stat /var/run/sentemails.duh shows at least X minutes old
12:31<bacon>oh, w.r.t. that
12:31<puppet>really smart way :)
12:32<ratrace_>really simple if you've got a bash script that send email on each burp
12:32<bacon>Yeh, I've written something to tally up the emails and automagically mail everyone to name-and-shame.
12:32<ratrace_>yuo can also buffer them and send digests if you want all 15k dailies for archival purposes
12:33<ratrace_>bacon: lol
12:33<bacon>nah, too many to be useful.
12:33-!-petey [] has joined #linode
12:33<puppet>could also aggrigate it down
12:33-!-dand1 [] has joined #linode
12:33<puppet>if it is same content just save datetime
12:33<bacon>Yeh, that's what I'm doing.
12:34<bacon>And a bit of GD to generate charts, to try pick up a pattern.
12:34-!-tharkun [~0@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:35-!-HS^ [] has joined #linode
12:36<HS^>just wondering, shouldnt linode offer more than creditcard payment option? since linode got hacked a couple weeks ago (read it on slashdot) and creditcard info is maybe stolen?
12:37<bacon>I believe they take kidneys as payment
12:37<puppet>HS^: kidneys, hearts, any organs works also
12:37<HS^>what about paypal
12:37<HedgeMage>bacon: I heard firstborn children, too, but I'm kind of attached to my mini-hacker.
12:37<ratrace_>bacon: if you run Munin it's pretty simple to add a sensor for taht
12:37<HoopyCat>HS^: for annual/high-volume pre-payment, i know they've accepted payments by mail in the past
12:37<puppet>Oh god, one more "why not paypal"
12:37<bacon>ratrace_, nope, none of that fanciness
12:37<puppet>cause paypal is, how to say it, crap
12:38<puppet>when it comes to digitl goods
12:38<puppet>no rights what so ever for the seller
12:38<Nivex>goats? chickens?
12:38<HS^>but creditcard is not secure?
12:38<ratrace_>puppet: I read it the other way around
12:38<Nivex>define "secure"
12:38<puppet>ratrace_: not for digital goods
12:38<HoopyCat>HS^: unfortunately, paypal's TOS prohibits the use of paypal to pay for things that are permitted by linode's TOS, which probably doesn't make it a viable option
12:38<HS^>well if you have creditcard info you can do anything with it
12:38-!-Bryen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:38<puppet>ratrace_: the seller can't "proove" the the buyer have gotten the item
12:38<ratrace_>puppet: that buyers of digital/virtual get stuck
12:38-!-Lancer [] has joined #linode
12:39<puppet>ratrace_: nah the buyers can just state "i didnt get it delivered"
12:39<HS^>if all creditcard details of linode was hacked
12:39<puppet>ratrace_: the seller have a hard time prooving they did deliver it since they dont have a tracking number
12:39<HS^>they can re sell it
12:39<learner>umm, the problem i had earlier, wasn't because of special chars
12:39<HS^>your creditcard info that is
12:39<HoopyCat>HS^: credit card transactions must (under most circumstances) be pre-authorized by the cardholder's bank
12:39<learner>it was because i only had created the user at
12:39<bacon>HS^, My CC expires at the end of the month, so I'm ok about that
12:39<learner>and it needed to be created both at that and localhost
12:40<puppet>learner: my recomendaton
12:40<learner>aparently for mysql those users are different
12:40<puppet>learner: turn or dns lookup in mysql and just use ip
12:40<HS^>bacon so they can plunder your account fr just 1 more month ?
12:40<bacon>HS^, 9 days
12:40<puppet>HS^: as far as we know, CCs are not out
12:40<bacon>HS^, And, I keep it empty
12:40-!-tharkun [~0@] has joined #linode
12:40<HS^>the hacker says something else though
12:40<learner>ok puppet i'll look up how to do that
12:41<bacon>So, someone from Linode can assign me a ticket at the beginning of each month, so I know they still care :)
12:41<puppet>HS^: oh really, and you got proof for that?
12:41<HoopyCat>HS^: if your bank is authorizing transactions you didn't do, contact your bank -- they can shut that card down and (depending on the laws of your country) reverse the transactions
12:41<bacon>HS^, uhuh
12:41<HS^>puppet well thats what this says
12:41<bacon>HS^, don't panic, everything is alright.
12:41<bacon>It was just chesty's password hash that was stolen.
12:42<HS^>05:30 < ryan||> I had a nice deal with linode staff that they don't share the fact htat they got owned with anyone and we won't release info on their hack
12:42<HS^>05:30 < ryan||> (including customer credit cards)"
12:42<puppet>HS^: old news, there have been NO leeaks of CCs of what we KNOW
12:42<bacon>So, they got onto one server?
12:42<puppet>HS^: if you want to be causios, get a new CC
12:42<puppet>HS^: but stop the BS and old drama, this is weeks old now
12:42<bacon>Or, a pre-paid CC should work.
12:43<HoopyCat>HS^: per, credit card numbers were not breached; at worst, they can't be decrypted without a passphrase
12:43<learner>lol bacon rnowak will kill you now
12:43<bacon>I'm alright with that.
12:43<learner>saying oh not everyone everywhere can get a prepaid cc
12:43<HS^>ok puppet i stop this
12:43<puppet>HS^: thank you :)
12:43<HS^>but the point wsa maybe offer more than just cc
12:43<HS^>that was all
12:44<HoopyCat>i've seen no evidence that my card has been used, and it's valid for a few more years, and i plan to not invalidate it unless i notice something
12:44<HoopyCat>(if i do notice something, #linode will probably be the third to know)
12:45<ratrace_>HoopyCat: you mean fourth? :)
12:45<ratrace_>rather, fifth :D
12:46*bacon tries to figure out what ratrace_ is on about
12:46<HoopyCat>ratrace_: if *i* notice something, it'll be the other person with a card, followed by the issuing bank, followed by #linode
12:46<HoopyCat>ratrace_: if something happens, tho, obviously the perpetrator and then myself will be index -1 and 0 respectively :-)
12:46<bacon>perl-based indexing?
12:46<HoopyCat>bacon: i go both ways
12:46*bacon shivers
12:46<Nivex>HoopyCat: notify the butt
12:47<ratrace_>HoopyCat: 1. perp, 2. you, 3. bank (I assume), 4. Linode, 5. #linode :)
12:47<bacon>ooh, modpoints
12:48<ratrace_>also, negative index? isn't that first from the end of the list? ( :mrgreen: )
12:49<learner>I think if we established a community watch then it'd be easier to catch these bastards hacking us
12:49<learner>like whoever gets portscanned, report it, whoever gets failed login attempts too much, report it. etc
12:50<ratrace_>learner: and how do you propose we do that?
12:50<HoopyCat>ratrace_: myself would be index zero for notifying others when i notice something; the merchant and perpetrator would fork somewhere off of the issuing bank
12:51<bacon>Notice that HoopyCat has gone full geek
12:51<ratrace_>learner: heh, you must be new on the net :D do you know how many of those we get across the servers?
12:51<ratrace_>(not from linode network, btw)
12:51<bacon>ratrace_, or, you hope
12:52<learner>i've noticed that whenever i run my vncserver for example i get portscanned
12:52<learner>and someone tries to log in
12:52<bacon>In my experience, abuse@moo doesn't result in much (That I know of, but seeing the continued attempts, I would think that so). I still keep doing it, though.
12:52<HoopyCat>i like it when they come from linode servers 'cuz i know i can notify abuse@ and it'll get taken care of
12:52<learner>and as soon as i close it down, it stops
12:53<puppet>bacon: except one! if you mail hetzner the abuser gets the info and can stop it them self, cause thats what abusers do
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12:53<learner>lol puppet
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13:00<ratrace_>learner: are you sure the portscans stop when you stop the vncserver?
13:01<learner>cause i get an email everytime someone portscans me
13:01-!-yano [] has joined #linode
13:01<learner>i've set it up like that for now
13:02<ratrace_>learner: how did you set it up?
13:02<learner>cron job
13:02<learner>reads log, emails
13:03<learner>does it once every 10 mins now
13:03<ratrace_>learner: which log?
13:03<bacon>What's your server's IP?
13:04<@akerl_>wait... you're logging port scans?
13:04<@akerl_>how, pray tell?
13:04<bacon>log a drop, parse logs
13:05<@akerl_>I feel like having iptables perform file activity every time somebody sends you a packet is a pretty bad idea
13:05<ratrace_>it sure is
13:05<@akerl_>Just a hunch I had
13:05<learner>that's an example
13:06<learner>how you can make a log of portscans
13:06<@akerl_>If you need iptables to prevent your own users from being malicious, you're doing it wrong
13:06<learner>no i just didn't want to show my iptables settings
13:06<bacon>learner, there are a few guides that'll show you how to get iptables to detect a port scan and add that IP to a reject list.
13:06<@akerl_>Also, see the above note on how having iptables perform disk actions for every packet is a bad plan
13:06<learner>i'm just saying iptables can produce a log of portscans
13:07<learner>i'll look that up bacon
13:07<bacon>They are somewhere on
13:07<@akerl_>bacon: Meh
13:07<swaj>logging portscans seems silly anyway. Never got why it mattered that people scan my ports.
13:07<bacon><- lazy
13:07<learner>swaj: i think it's the pattern
13:07<@akerl_>learner: The what?
13:08<learner>like when you're about to get attacked
13:08<learner>it's like when the enemy radar scans your base
13:08<swaj>learner: and what are you going to do because of it is the point?
13:08<learner>just be more vigilant i guess?
13:08<bacon>learner, it will be difficult to detect the type of guy that actually has the ability to penetrate.
13:08<@akerl_>learner: If roving brute-force bots on the internet have a chance of authenticating to your server, you're already Doing It Wrong
13:09<learner>yeah i see your point akerl_
13:09<bacon>most of those port scans are via script-kiddies, and some from researchers
13:09<swaj>learner: if somebody wants to legimiately attack you via DDoS or something, there's nothing you can do. And if they want to try and break into your system, you should harden it before-hand, without relying on port scans to "signal" you :)
13:09<bacon>... scannign the whole internet
13:09<puppet>learner: and if anyone want to disturb you now, they can do it easier by ddosing you with portscans
13:09<swaj>man I completely destroyed the world "legitimately"
13:10<@akerl_>Like... if somebody scans your server and learns the list of ports you're listening on... what are they going to do with that info, and what are you going to do with the knowledge that they scanned you?
13:10<learner>well you get their ip
13:10<puppet>learner: and?
13:11<swaj>IP is easy to change,fake,proxy,etc.
13:11<learner>it shows before this attack happened at this time, the originating scan happened from this location
13:11<bacon>learner, but, you're starting somewhere. Security generally has multiple layers. Like an onion. That makes you cry if it is cut. Some prevention worked way back when, but not nowadays.
13:11<learner>can be passed to the cops if need be?
13:11<swaj>if they want to attack your linode, they'll do it.
13:11<@akerl_>ha ha ha
13:11<swaj>learner: anyone serious enough to attack you...
13:11<swaj>is not going to make it that easy
13:12<bacon>learner, Don't feel anyone is ridiculing you, most of us were green once.
13:12<swaj>in the meantime, all they have to do is flood you with portscans and your disk is full :)
13:12<puppet>swaj: :D
13:12<@akerl_>while true ; do nmap -p 0-65535 $IP ; done
13:12<learner>ok can't the same happen with anything
13:12<learner>like sending spam
13:12<bacon>akerl_, -T1
13:12<bacon>or -T5, forget which is insane timing
13:12<learner>or even portscanning and iptables adding ip to reject
13:12<@akerl_>learner: The take-away here is "Actually secure your services, don't waste time with silly firewall rules"
13:13<learner>akerl_: fair enough i get your point
13:13<swaj>learner: what I'm telling you is that a good defence against black-hats, is just being diligent and following best practices. Good security means implementing appropriate safety measures from the start... that way the information an attacker obtains from a port scan is only exactly what you've allowed to be "open"
13:13<puppet>only thing i will firewall on my new setup is block SSH from internet
13:14<@akerl_>puppet: :D
13:14<swaj>secure your running daemons/services/etc... a firewall is a wonderful thing, but don't make it your "only" line of defense.
13:14<Bansku_>good passwords & upgrading software = 99% security
13:14<puppet>akerl_: or well, dont even think i will do that, will prob use puppet to change listening interface :)
13:14<puppet>Bansku_: passwords?
13:14<swaj>and don't expose /CFIDE :)
13:15<swaj>(sorry akerl, I had to :))
13:15*swaj waits for the boot in the ass
13:15<@akerl_>puppet: Heh. I have '-I INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -j DROP` in my ruleset
13:15<learner>so using firewall you limit access to your ssh to specific ip?
13:15<@akerl_>swaj: <3
13:15<swaj>yeah, or at least use an iptables rule
13:15-!-Ruchira [~ruchira@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:15<swaj>to LIMIT the traffic on SSH
13:15<puppet>akerl_: yeah, but if I just change listening port there will be no iptable rules at all ;P
13:16<puppet>akerl_: interface*
13:16<@akerl_>To what? Private only?
13:16<puppet>akerl_: my brain is semi awake, been slacking all weekend ;P yeah private only, then i got one machine with VPN
13:16<puppet>akerl_: so i VPN into the private network
13:16<swaj>learner: but here's a generally good idea. disable the root account, make public key auth the ONLY auth you support (no passwords), and firewall off the SSH port so only YOU can connect.
13:16*akerl_ waves the 2fa and SPA flags
13:17*bacon waves back
13:17<@akerl_>puppet: Gotcha
13:17<learner>ok i know how to disable root login for ssh, i know how to block ssh from ips other than mine, but i don't know how to make sure it's me
13:17<bacon>There is also lish
13:17<swaj>learner: I disable root account completely... even from logging in locally. On debian you can "passwd -dl root"
13:17<learner>that 2-3 layer login i still haven't understood exactly what to do with
13:18<swaj>learner: I use sudo from my user account. root is dead. useless. can't be used directly.
13:18<learner>how do you install stuff then?
13:18<learner>so your account is an admin account
13:18<puppet>not really
13:18<@akerl_>swaj: I'm torn there. My setup requires SPA + key to SSH to non-root user, accessing root by su or console login requires totp 2fa
13:19<learner>ok i'll have to read about this
13:19<puppet>your account is a user, that got the rights to run what you want to enable on it
13:19<@akerl_>So I actually have my LISH console set up to allow root *only*
13:19<puppet>learner: as I said yesterdays, you need to look on everything from the ground up, i would say 1-2-3 months til you should put up a production server
13:19<puppet>learner: there is SO much that needs to be covered
13:19<puppet>akerl_: also a smart way
13:20<bacon>learner, also, get a few friends and try break into each other's servers
13:20<bacon>sorry, bad apostrophe.
13:20<@akerl_>I'll say, though, that futzing with PAM configs is a great way to force yourself to learn about Finnix :P
13:20<bacon>oh, no, that is correct.
13:20<learner>i'm willing to put in the time, but some of the stuff i hear here are completely new to me, so hard to grasp all at once
13:20<swaj>akerl_: totally get it. I guess I just really like the practice of eliminating that vector completely. Nothing to exploit. It's just gone.
13:20<puppet>learner: thats why i would say 3 months before production
13:20<puppet>learner: at least
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13:21<puppet>swaj: think i am going to add that in my puppet config, just remove root to login
13:21<swaj>I hope two-factor is coming for Linode manager.. and I hope disabling the API as an option is coming too :)
13:21-!-reavis [] has joined #linode
13:21<bacon>isn't it in yet?
13:21<learner>ok so first i should learn to disable root, correct?
13:21<swaj>learner: what distro are you using?
13:21<bacon>oh, proper 2-factor, not whitelisting
13:21<learner>ubuntu 12.10
13:22<@akerl_>swaj: If you have an API key, you should have gotten an email recently
13:22<@akerl_>Did you not?
13:22<swaj>passwd -dl root
13:22<swaj>akerl_: no
13:22<@akerl_>o.O and you have an API key?
13:22<swaj>yes, well I didn't used to have one. One magically appeared.
13:22<swaj>Then I reset it after the incident
13:22<learner>swaj: do i need to created a new user first?
13:22<puppet>user { 'root': password => '*', } easy enough
13:22-!-Ruchira [~ruchira@] has joined #linode
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13:23<@akerl_>Ah. You wouldn't have gotten an email if you'd already reset it
13:23<swaj>learner: yes. Create yourself a normal user account. Make sure it has "sudo" privileges, and then disable the root pasword.
13:23<puppet>there we go, now i disabled it to swaj ;P
13:24<puppet>so nice with puppet, saved changes and now it gets propogated out
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13:24<learner>swaj: i also should disable passwordless logging in for root correct?
13:25<puppet>learner: you can't loging without a password
13:25<bacon>*by default
13:25-!-getsmart [] has joined #linode
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13:25<swaj>learner: when you passwd -dl that account, you won't be able to become root at all anymore... not even with sudo
13:25<puppet>bacon: thanks for adding :)
13:25<swaj>learner: it's just gone.
13:25<learner>well right now i ssh to my server using an ssh private / public key
13:25<swaj>on root?
13:25<swaj>use the pubkey on a normal user account
13:25<swaj>and disable root
13:26<learner>will do
13:26<puppet>swaj: well you can always sudo -s
13:26<swaj>99% of stuff you want to do doesn't need root
13:27<learner>swaj: sudo adduser <username> sudo correct?
13:27<swaj>learner: that's how it is on debian.
13:27<swaj>learner: ubuntu is probably the same
13:27<swaj>you can check with visudo
13:27<puppet>learner: start there
13:27<swaj>if you see this in sudo visudo: %sudo ALL=(ALL) ALL
13:27<swaj>then yes
13:28<swaj>that's all you need
13:28<swaj>adduser <user> sudo
13:28<puppet>learner: and with sudo you can do cool stuff like letting some users do some tihngs with sudo
13:28<puppet>learner: f.ex. %zabbix ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/rabbitmqctl
13:28<swaj>visudo opens the sudoers file so you can see who has privileges to perform sudo operations
13:29<usser>i would like to resize my disk image on my linode.. how do i know what a safe size is?
13:29<usser>(i want to decrease it in size)
13:30<swaj>I want to use zfs on my linodes :P
13:30<swaj>but I'm too lazy to go through all the hoops
13:31<swaj>wtb wheezy already...
13:32<learner>swaj: can you give me a few steps after this so i wont' have to come bug you for a fwe hours
13:32-!-rurufufuss [] has joined #linode
13:32<swaj>haha which steps?
13:32<learner>that i should take for my set up
13:33-!-mutantmonkey [] has quit [Quit: connection lost port_6667 irc #channel]
13:33<swaj>make sure "PermitRootLogin off" -- even though you've disabled the root account, it's nice to have SSH tell people to go away :)
13:33<swaj>that's in /etc/sshd/sshd_config
13:33<swaj>turn off password auth
13:33<swaj>in that same config too
13:33<swaj>make it so you can only get in with a public key
13:33<puppet>i have even made it even worse swaj
13:33<puppet>only root user can handle SSH keys
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13:34<swaj>~/.ssh is fine for me
13:34<puppet>so no one can change the key without getting into one place, btu then, yeah, if they get into puppet, its not that good ;
13:35<learner>puppet: in your example zabbix is the name of the user right
13:35<swaj>that's a pretty good starting point
13:35<puppet>learner: group
13:35<learner>swaj: also should i use webmin, or should i get rid of it
13:36<puppet>and as swaj says, check that guide
13:36<learner>i will
13:36<swaj>learner: so I'm not a fan of webmin, but if you firewall it off, you can minimize the risk it imposes.
13:36<bacon>I used webmin to be lazy, but only listening on localhost (tunnelling in)
13:36<learner>yeah that's how it's set up
13:37<puppet>i use puppet cause I am lazy, but then, if I had one server i would just not use anything
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13:37<swaj>so then you've minimized the risk, but just be aware that if someone magically compromises your SSH somehow (which is unlikely) they can compromise your webmin too.
13:37<learner>i just like the visualization webmin gives me
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13:38<puppet>swaj: as we kind of have come underful with here, it is all about layers
13:38<swaj>the only thing I'd tell you off the top of my head to never install no matter what is phpMyAdmin.
13:38<learner>well if someone can compromise my ssh, what difference does it make if they can or cannot compromise my webmin
13:38<learner>it's already broken
13:38<learner>i installed it but again limited to localhost
13:38<learner>should i remove it?
13:38<puppet>learner: get a real sql client instead
13:39<puppet>learner: on windows or mac?
13:39<usser>how do i determine what a safe size to resize my disk image to is?
13:39<swaj>learner: my recommendation to you is to install MySQL Workbench. It supports tunneling over SSH.
13:39<learner>windows and linux
13:39<swaj>and get rid of phpmyadmin
13:39<puppet>learner: for windows I recomend SQLYog
13:39<puppet>swaj: for windows I would say SQLYog is x 10 better then workbench
13:39<learner>and does sqlyog also support tunneling
13:39<swaj>(or some other tool that supports tunneling)
13:39<puppet>learner: yes
13:40<learner>ok wonderful
13:40<puppet>sqlyog also have some lame HTTP tunneling if really needed
13:40-!-agentbob [] has joined #linode
13:40<swaj>and then use your private key with that tool :)
13:40<swaj>so you can get into mysql without phpMyAdmin
13:41<learner>ok that should take a few hours
13:41<learner>i'll be back with more noob questions soon :P
13:41<learner>thanks for the help
13:41*usser raises his hand
13:41<usser>is it my turn yet? ;p
13:41<puppet>learner: just google, google is your friend
13:42<puppet>learner: except when top people say "drones" should be banned
13:42<swaj>learner: remember that security through obscurity is bad. Just do it right to begin with :)
13:42*usser takes the stand
13:42<usser>sorry if im asking the same quesion over and over, but
13:42<learner>honestly puppet, i've been googling and searching for things to do for 2 weeks
13:42<learner>i couldn't have gotten the direction i got now from just googling at least this soon
13:42<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
13:42<usser>i would like to resize my disk image on my linode, but id like to prevent completely breaking it
13:43<usser>how can I determine what is a safe size to resize (reduce in size) my disk image
13:43<bacon>usser, You guesstimate
13:43<swaj>usser: best I can tell you is to "df -h" and see how much space is used on that disk... then resize it to some bit more than that. it should work, but take backups just in case.
13:43<usser>well, based on what
13:43<learner>usser: as swaj said ask one of the ops maybe?
13:43<@akerl_>usser: It's an ext3 disk, right?
13:43<bacon>usser, what that partition is for
13:43<@akerl_>That you created in the Linode Manager?
13:43<usser>yes, akerl_
13:43<usser>yes and yes
13:44<@akerl_>Then if you go to small, it will say "bro I can't go that small" and refuse to do it
13:44<usser>word for word?
13:44<@akerl_>Maybe not :P
13:44<swaj>maybe.. I like the "yes, delete this sucker" button
13:44<ratrace_>lol yeah dns
13:44<usser>well, my backup says "Total size required 1568 MB", should i use that to determine how small i resize to?
13:44<puppet>akerl_: thats what she said!
13:45<usser>like maybe 3 gb
13:45-!-puntin [] has joined #linode
13:45<HoopyCat>if it's 'raw', then it says "i heard you liked data loss so i lost some data while you were losing data so you can restore from backups while restoring from backups"
13:45<usser>or is that a compressed file size
13:45<swaj>usser:: df -h
13:45<swaj>usser: will tell you exactly how much you're using
13:45<usser>/dev/xvda 24G 953M 22G 5% /
13:46<usser>so, a couple gigs should be fine, eh?
13:46<swaj>so you're using about 1 GB
13:46<@akerl_>usser: The backups tab shows it's estimate of how big it needs to make the disk image when restoring that backup
13:46<swaj>so 3 GB should be more than safe
13:46<@akerl_>It's a rough guess plus a bit
13:46-!-nisstyre [] has joined #linode
13:46<usser>well, wish me luck
13:46<usser>i went for 5 gb
13:46<swaj>take backups
13:46<swaj>don't blow up your data
13:47<usser>define blow up ;P
13:47<learner>ooh um swaj / puppet is a similar thing doable in mysql
13:47<swaj>if your whole filesystem is a 1 GB, I'd just "dd over ssh" from finnix :)
13:47<learner>as in to disable root
13:47<puppet>learner: what?
13:47<puppet>learner: yes, but you want the root user
13:47<HoopyCat>also note that when you restore a backup to a linode, and that linode is later backed up, the restored backups also get backed up as part of the backup, and then if you restore later on, it'll restore the backup, as well as the backup of the restored backup
13:47<puppet>learner: without that one you cant do much
13:47<swaj>learner: yeah
13:47<HoopyCat>i think that's what i'm saying
13:48<swaj>lol hoopy
13:48<puppet>HoopyCat: a lot of backup in that sentenc
13:48<@akerl_>HoopyCat: Recursive backups :D
13:48<HoopyCat>it's not important now, but if you ever run into that situation, it's harmless yet amusingly confusing
13:48<usser>yo dawg i heard you like backups
13:48<learner>swaj: i can limit login of root to localhost though right
13:49<swaj>learner: limit all logins to localhost
13:49<swaj>learner: the only reason I sort of stay away from disabling root
13:49<swaj>learner: is that some distro tools use it I believe
13:49<learner>and puppet suggested disabling dns lookup in mysql
13:49<swaj>like debian's data cleaner.
13:49<bacon>That statement is brought to you by:
13:50<puppet>learner: and as i said before, do not ue localhost
13:50<swaj>actually debian uses its own account
13:50<puppet>learner: use and enable skip-name-resolv
13:50<swaj>so you may be able to disable it.
13:50<puppet>learner: on that way you wont have problems if you get tons of connections
13:50<learner>ok i'll have to see if that sets well with postfix
13:50<swaj>but at some point you'll need a "root-like" user
13:50<swaj>to create databases and stuff
13:50<learner>cause postfix connects using user@localhost
13:50<puppet>learner: user@
13:51<puppet>remember you need to change hosts on serveral places, both db table and User table
13:51<learner>ok link on this, or should i just google it
13:51<puppet>learner: jsut google :)
13:52<learner>i hope i can find good explanation there
13:52<usser>might sound like a dumb question.. but how do i power my linode on
13:52<usser>usually theres a button on the right of my dashboard, right?
13:52<puppet>usser: you press power on in manager :)
13:52<learner>usser: magic
13:52<puppet>usser: alternative, you go to the DC, and break in, find the machine, and hten press the button!
13:53<@akerl_>usser: The "Boot" button?
13:53<XReaper>The "Boom" button?
13:53<swaj>right under the box that says "powered off" in linode manager, there's a "Boot" button I believe
13:53<puppet>I almsot just started Ghostbusters on Netflix
13:53<@akerl_>Nah, it's over by the config profiles
13:54<usser>isnt it usually right there?
13:54*HoopyCat hides in das boot
13:54<@akerl_>usser: Left edge
13:54<@akerl_>Between conf profiles and disk images
13:54<usser>im a noob
13:54<swaj>usser: I think that's where the "reboot" button is, when the system is running.
13:54<puppet>usser: no no, your not a noob
13:54<puppet>usser: JUST BLIND!
13:54<puppet>usser: :D
13:54<usser>fair enough
13:54<puppet>usser: like everyone is now and then
13:55<usser>feel kinda dumb tbh
13:55<HoopyCat>noobs are the people who ask what the username/password is for posting to
13:55<@akerl_>HoopyCat: heh :)
13:55<ratrace_>bootbutton impaired.... :D
13:55<usser>what is the username/password for posting to
13:55<puppet>HoopyCat: yes, what is the login?
13:55<HoopyCat>puppet: no
13:55<puppet>HoopyCat: ok ill try that
13:55<@akerl_>HoopyCat is devilishly clever
13:56<ghosticus>HoopyCat is Hoopy
13:56<puppet>HoopyCat: didnt work :(
13:56<puppet>HoopyCat: its ok, ill just go to 4chan instead of linode forums!
13:57<Nivex>HoopyCat: another one failed the literacy test, eh?
13:57<bacon>c-c-c-combo breaker
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13:58<gparent>hi there
14:00<usser>yay, my resize worked fine
14:00<bacon>Hello gparent, welcome to #linode
14:01<gparent>but I was already here!!!!!
14:01-!-getsmart [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
14:02<puppet>gparent: sure you where.
14:03<puppet>gparent: only one you are fooling ar yourself ;P
14:03<bacon>gparent, not in spirit
14:03<learner>swaj: does the id of the new user matter
14:03<gparent>in spirit I was sleeping
14:04<gparent>I did dream once about the linode upgrades though
14:04<learner>if i set it to below 1000 or above does it matter
14:04<gparent>which was very, very wierd.
14:04<bacon>learner, nah, not really, as long as it isn't taken or 0
14:04<bacon>which would be taken.
14:05<learner>if things go wrong at any turn
14:05<bacon>and grab onto your towel.
14:05<learner>hwo do i reverse the passwd -dl root
14:05<gparent>you don't?
14:05<gparent>unless those flags are special
14:06<gparent>let's see
14:06<gparent>-u to unlock
14:06<gparent>and passwd <user> to set a password
14:06<gparent>but -d deletes the password
14:06<gparent>so you can't restore it
14:06<gparent>if you had done -l without -d
14:07<gparent>then you could've done -u and it would've set the original pass I believe
14:07<bacon>but, user can still logon if an account is -dl'ed, via other auth mechanisms
14:08<bacon>pubkey whatamacallit
14:09<bacon>and all those other funny things
14:10<jchen>freebsd \o/
14:10<@Perihelion>ice cream \o/
14:10<learner>umm, the new user, should it be a member of users, or should i create a completely separate group for it too
14:10<gparent>freebsd! *crickets*
14:11<gparent>oh no
14:11<gparent>*millions of users tremble the planet*
14:11<gparent>what did you do
14:11<@akerl_>I just wanted a change of pace from Fedora
14:11<gparent>It's not my fault you can't pick nice hats.
14:12<learner>so i'm creating a new user to be the admin, i have to add it to sudo group, but what group should it be its main group?
14:12<gparent>I just use user:user
14:12<gparent>like the debian default
14:12<swaj>learner: its own is fine
14:12<puppet>Perihelion: now i want ice cream, dont like u anymore
14:12<learner>so newadmin:newadmin
14:13<gparent>well if you use the adduser script that's what it does by default on debian
14:13<gparent>and maybe ubuntu
14:13<puppet>yeah it is pretty srange i run centos and not fedora, since I do have a Fedora..
14:13<swaj>work is all RedHat and Sun
14:14<swaj>and AIX
14:14<puppet>swaj: everyone got red hats on them and sunglasses for the sun?
14:14<gparent>disney announces how bad star wars is gonna suck
14:14<puppet>disney kind of scrweed up with Star Wars weeks ago
14:15<gparent>if you ask me lucas screwed up enough already
14:15<gparent>but meh
14:15<gparent>I don't think I even care anymore
14:21<puppet> some good once there, I like the Sarcastises
14:25<gparent>I like the hemi-demi-semi colon
14:25<learner>swaj: what should i search for on google to find out how i can make the terminal dispaly show the directory structure with the new user as it would with root?
14:26<learner>like newadmin@myfgn:/mydirectory/#
14:26<learner>instead of just the dollar sign
14:26<gparent>the dollar sign means /home
14:26-!-brennannovak [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:26<gparent>and I don't know
14:26<@akerl_>gparent: wat
14:26<ghosticus>i'm going $
14:26<@akerl_>$ doesn't mean root
14:26<gparent>I mean
14:26<puppet>gparent: :D
14:26<gparent>home directory
14:26<@akerl_>~/ is home
14:26<gparent>if the user you're running at
14:26<gparent>you're right
14:26<gparent>~ are not dollars signs
14:26*gparent goes back to sleep
14:26<@akerl_>$ vs # generally means whether or not you're root
14:26<ghosticus>$ means money
14:27<gparent>what akerl_ said
14:27<learner>well i don't care about the # or $ as much, i care about it showing where i am
14:27<learner>directory wise
14:27<gparent>well what is it showing now
14:27-!-nisstyre [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:27-!-nisstyre [] has joined #linode
14:27<learner>just the $
14:28<gparent>what does that say
14:28<puppet>learner: yes you do care about it
14:28-!-MrGeneral [] has joined #linode
14:28-!-azizur [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:28<puppet>learner: you do care about $ and #
14:28<Gnewt>learner: Run 'pwd'
14:28<learner>yes i know what you mean about i care about it, but that's not what i meant
14:28<gparent>technically you'd hope a sysadmin can keep track of what user he's running as
14:28<gparent>but yeah
14:28<gparent>hints are fun
14:29<learner>i want it shown
14:29<Gnewt>learner: Run 'pwd'
14:29<learner>like the prompt to show the location
14:29<gparent>again, can you show up your prompt vs 'pwd'
14:29<gparent>show us*
14:29<learner>not have to keep running pwd
14:29<gparent>I asked you to type it so we could help you
14:29<gparent>I didn't mena you should type pwd every time
14:29<@akerl_>learner: What is your shell?
14:29<gparent>that would, indeed, be annoying
14:29<Gnewt>We don't mean keep running pwd. We want to see how your shell is set up
14:29<learner>gparent: when i show pwd it shows my home directory when i'm in home directory
14:30<@akerl_>uh huh
14:30<@akerl_>And when you aren't?
14:30<gparent>and no ~ anywhere?
14:30<@akerl_>gparent: pwd won't show ~
14:30<gparent>I meant his prompt
14:30<Gnewt>learner: cd to another directory... like /etc
14:30<gparent>I know what pwd does..
14:30-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
14:30<Gnewt>does your shell prompt show that?
14:30<gparent>I asked him to type it
14:30<learner>when i'm in a different directory it shows that directory
14:30<Gnewt>then it's working as it should
14:30<@akerl_>jchen: ZSH :D
14:31<Gnewt>Mine looks like "gnewt@fleeting:/etc$ "
14:31<Gnewt>if I'm in etc
14:31<puppet>akerl_: any way to know what subnets that Linode have in different DCs so you can whitelist them for some services on other places?
14:31<puppet>zsh <3
14:31<@akerl_>puppet: Not on v4
14:31<puppet>akerl_: ah ok
14:33<Gnewt>learner: How do you want the shell prompt to look different?
14:33<Gnewt>jchen that's pretty dope
14:33<@akerl_>jchen: Have you seen Pure?
14:33<jchen>no i haven't what is it
14:33<@akerl_>I'm a prompt minimalist
14:34<gparent>I just have nothing.
14:34<gparent>Screw characters.
14:34<jchen>i might steal that promp char
14:34<gparent>even my input is hidden
14:34<puppet>i like ztanesh
14:34<gparent>ive considered hiding output too
14:34<learner>Gnewt i want it to look like this : USER@HOSTNAME:FULL_PATH $
14:35-!-trusktr [] has joined #linode
14:35<@akerl_>learner: What is your shell?
14:35-!-jakechapa [] has joined #linode
14:36<learner>right now i'm on pc so it's putty
14:36-!-azizur [] has joined #linode
14:36<@akerl_>The shell on your linode that your user is using
14:36<@akerl_>not the software you're using for ssh
14:36<puppet>akerl_: remember that learner have just started with linux it seems :)
14:37<learner>i've used linux at school for 4 years, so not just started, but some of the terms you use are different from what i'm used to
14:37<@akerl_>puppet: I continue to be of the opinion that he's trying to comprehend the whole body of knowledge at once
14:37<puppet>akerl_: I agree with you, tried to get him to start from the basics
14:37<learner>shell, can mean the shell terminal, or the prompt that's displaying, or the software that's used by the os to display shell
14:37<@akerl_>It's like trying to understand the ocean by swimming straight down as fast as possible, sans air tank or submarine
14:37<@akerl_>learner: No
14:38<@akerl_>Your shell is your shell.
14:38<Gnewt>Shell = bash, zsh, sh, etc
14:38<Gnewt>it's totally separate from what you use to access it
14:38<learner>then it's bash
14:38<Gnewt>it's the program that interprets what you type, serverside
14:38<@akerl_>learner: Then your prompt is handled by the PS1 variable, which you don't appear to be properly setting
14:38<learner>ok so go to .bash directory and modify that?
14:39<@akerl_>If your prompt is just "$" by default, I feel like you've messed something up
14:39<@akerl_>On pretty much all sane distros, "user@hostname: path char" should be the default
14:40<dcraig>with colors!
14:40<gparent>I refuse to use a non-colored shell!
14:40<gparent>prompt/terminal/box/window/putty screen
14:42<learner>akerl_: thanks so much, yes, i accidentally had set shell to /bin/sh instead of /bin/bash
14:42<puppet>akerl_: on what user?
14:42-!-NaCl [] has left #linode []
14:42<puppet>learner: on rhwat user.
14:43<puppet>i am so going to go grab some food now, so my brain can think
14:43<learner>the new user i created to replace root
14:43-!-digiv [] has joined #linode
14:43<puppet>learner: ok, seems strange most dists defaults to bash, root user should use sh though
14:43-!-Fangrille [] has joined #linode
14:43<dcraig>if you come down by the seashore, I'll sell you a C shell
14:44<learner>lol dcraig
14:44<puppet>lol dcraig
14:44-!-Daedolon [] has quit [Quit: Good luck, Material Defender.]
14:44<learner>c shell is csh right
14:45<Gnewt>PS1 can't decide between sh and bash
14:45<Gnewt>why did you replace root?
14:45<learner>Gnewt: not replace replace, as in disable login and password for root and use this user which can sudo
14:46<Gnewt>word of caution, you may still want to have root login possible locally, via su or via the serial console
14:46<Gnewt>not via SSH, but locally
14:46<learner>i would?
14:46<learner>so not disable root?
14:46<Gnewt>Disable root login over SSH
14:46<Gnewt>keep the actual account enabled
14:47<learner>i have
14:47<gparent>disabling your own way to fix the system if sudo breaks is probably not a good idea
14:47<gparent>so yes, keeping root active is fine.
14:47<learner>haven't done the passwd -ld yet
14:47<Gnewt>Set it to a very complex password
14:47<Gnewt>and encrypt it
14:47<gparent>give it a long password and disable ssh access to it
14:47<Gnewt>but like gparent said.. if sudo breaks you're going to want root access
14:47<learner>ok how do i do that
14:47<learner>doesn't linxu already encrypt the password?
14:47<gparent>Gnewt: sorry if I cut/repeated what you said, I had an IRC lag spike
14:48<dcraig>why would you break sudo? :p
14:48<gparent>why would anything ever break!?!?
14:48<Gnewt>learner: I mean encrypt it to keep it on your local box with 1password or similar
14:48<Gnewt>or better yet just remember it
14:48<Gnewt>but set a strong pass
14:49<@akerl_>1password is <3
14:49<learner>yeah i'd rather memorize it
14:49<Gnewt>I dig 1Password
14:49<Gnewt>my master pass is a whole sentence from a song, I feel pretty good about it
14:49<@akerl_>Their recent posts about the ophcat or whatev thing have only helped
14:50-!-supp [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:50<Gnewt>KeePassX sucks :( I used to use it
14:50<Gnewt>when I bought my new laptop, since I'm a student, Apple included $100 in Apple Store credit
14:50<Gnewt>used that to buy 1Password and never looked back
14:50-!-supp [] has joined #linode
14:51<puppet>whats wrong with KeePassX ?:)
14:51<gparent>I use KeePass without the X
14:51<Gnewt>just unfun to use
14:51<puppet>unfun ;P
14:52<gparent>I guess KeePass 1.0 worked badly on linux and they ported it back then
14:53<@akerl_>I <3 1password's iphone app integration. I've heard some complaints from folks who don't have all-Apple like myself, though
14:54-!-puntin [] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
14:54<Gnewt>1Pass works ok on Android
14:54<Gnewt>I sync it via Dropbox so that's nifty
14:54-!-danblack [~danblack@] has joined #linode
14:55<@akerl_>Gnewt: Last I checked, their android app was read-only, yes?
14:56<@akerl_>the iOS version isn't :P
14:57-!-azizur [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:57<puppet>akerl_: well thats because they feel sorry for all iphone users, that iphone users arent as smart and remember as good!
14:57<puppet>akerl_: :D
15:00<jchen>akerl_: yeah its read only and derpy
15:04<learner>ok can anyone confirm that it doesn't allow login for root at my server now
15:05<gparent>no but yo ucan
15:05<gparent>try login in
15:05<@akerl_>There's no way for us to do that
15:05<learner>i tried with password and with public key
15:05<learner>says no supported login
15:06<gparent>there you go
15:06<gparent>attempting to log in is a great way to know if log in works
15:07<learner>ok step one done, 1000 more steps to go
15:07<learner>imma take a short break and get back to it
15:14<ratrace_>git status
15:15<Turl>bash: git: command not found
15:17<ratrace_>alt tabbing through several term windows across two screens :/
15:18-!-A-KO [as@2601:a:f00:1f:f032:e178:4033:1037] has joined #linode
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15:21<jchen>gnu screen bro
15:21<ratrace_>tmux > screen
15:24<Gnewt>09:02 <@qmr> how do you know somebody uses tmux?
15:24<Gnewt>09:02 < dwfreed> they tell you
15:24<Gnewt>09:02 <@qmr> !rimshot
15:24<puppet>can someone explain to me why you would use tux and not screen
15:25*Gnewt all ears
15:25<@akerl_>user preference?
15:25<Gnewt>stop being rational, I just got my pitchfork >:|
15:25<gparent>user preference is usually based on something other than the name
15:25<trippeh>I like how admins tends to have long running screen/tmux sessions with admin and root logins open to pretty much every system they control
15:26-!-tharkun [~0@] has joined #linode
15:26<@akerl_>Same question, other way: why use screen over tmux?
15:26<gparent>I don't remember why I switched to tmux, so I'll just say... it's less characters!11!
15:26-!-adnc [] has joined #linode
15:26<@akerl_>I'm willing to bet most people are in the same boat I'm in: they learned one first, and it does what they want, so they have no reason to switch
15:26<puppet>gparent: alias s=screen
15:26<jchen>screen is easier to type tho
15:26<Gnewt>trippeh: I never leave a root shell open on an unpriv'd screen :s
15:26<jchen>scree all one hand
15:26<puppet>akerl_: i didnt even hear about tmux til some months ago
15:26<Gnewt>that's terrible practice
15:26<gparent>mux all one hand!1!
15:26<swaj>screen sucks, use tmux :P
15:26<jchen>mux = one hand?
15:26<Nivex>screen is older but unmaintained. tmux is newer, a few more features, and under active maintainership
15:26<@akerl_>jchen: <up> <enter>
15:26<Gnewt>I used tmux a while ago
15:26<jchen>your hand must be huge
15:27<gparent>it is.
15:27<jchen>akerl_: lol
15:27<Gnewt>never felt a real difference
15:27<Gnewt>but I'm sure there are differences
15:27<@akerl_>jchen: That said, I do the same on systems I use with screen
15:27<puppet>thats what she said.
15:27<trippeh>Gnewt: Yes it is. They still do it
15:27<swaj>I switched from screen to tmux a couple years ago
15:27<@akerl_>In both cases, the command to re-enter the running session is <up> <enter>
15:27<puppet>swaj: whats the major improvement?
15:27<gparent>does screen still need silly arguments to make utf-8 work
15:27<ratrace_>tmux has green status bar that's automatically on and I don't have to google for the hard line screenrc setting each and every time I install a new system
15:27<puppet>gparent: not here
15:27<gparent>or just the env vars will do
15:27<jchen>akerl_: inb4 your previous command involved some kind of data-destruction
15:28<@akerl_>jchen: That hasn't happened yet, and I usually glance at least
15:28<swaj>puppet: the multi-plexing was the big one for me
15:28<@akerl_>I run all the destructive commands *inside* the screen/tmux :P
15:28<gparent>i just up-enter until tmux comes up ~~
15:28<jchen>screen -dr doesnt require any thinking
15:28<puppet>gparent: ctrl+r tm
15:28<@akerl_>I also have partial-history-match with ZSH, so "t" <up> <enter> stands a pretty awesome shot at getting it
15:29<gparent>puppet: ~~
15:29<Nivex>"tmux attach" ~= "screen -x"
15:29<jchen>partial history match is the bomb
15:29<@akerl_>jchen: Yessir
15:29<puppet>so are people saying here that I should learn tmux and skip screen ;P
15:29<puppet>been using screen forever
15:29<gparent>nobody came up with a single reason to use either AFAIK
15:29<gparent>so I doubt it puppet
15:29<swaj>I have a shell alias... alias ta="tmux attach -d"
15:30<Nivex>"tmux attach -d" ~= "screen -dr"
15:30<gparent>tmux runs better with emacs and screen with vim, that should help people decide
15:30<@akerl_>Nivex: That's to force-detach others, right?
15:30<Nivex>akerl_: yeah
15:30<@mdcollins>Or at least until I'm sufficiently convinced to try tmux.
15:30<@akerl_>That's less likely to be what I want
15:30<@akerl_>also, my completions complete attach when I type 'a<tab'
15:30<Nivex>alias tad="tmux attach -d"
15:31<@akerl_>I've been using 'tmux detach-client -s0', so the -d flag is a TIL
15:32<jchen>i used to use tmux + irssi for the split-window nicklist
15:32<gparent>I use tmux and irssi so I don't need to use bg
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15:33<Nivex>tmux detach-client -s0 -P <-- throw clients completely off the system
15:33<swaj>tmux holds irssi for me too
15:33<Nivex>otherwise they are still logged in and could do stuff
15:33<@akerl_>Nivex: The only client on the box I run tmux on is me :P
15:34<@akerl_>I primarily use that command when I broke a connection poorly and my irssi window is weirdly misshapen due to the other "connections" having different window shapes
15:34<puppet>ok, so now when we have one war going, lets start a parallell one, vim or sublime?
15:34<@akerl_>Why not both?
15:34<puppet>akerl_: damn, i use booth too ;P
15:34<puppet>akerl_: but why so logical answer:(
15:34<@akerl_>Because they meet different needs
15:34<@akerl_>For me, at least
15:34<puppet>vim when you are in the console and need to edit config files, and sublime for coding
15:34<swaj>nano when I need to hack up something in a terminal... sublime when I need to get real work done :)
15:34<gparent>different programs meet different needs
15:35<@akerl_>I use vim for coding, primarily
15:35<gparent>emacs is a full fledged operating system while vim is merely a text editor
15:35<@akerl_>GUI tools like sublime are lovely when I really need to have better search/display to grok the full nature of a multi-file system
15:35<@akerl_>But otherwise, vim 4 lyfe
15:35<trippeh>You guys are so cool.
15:36<swaj>vim is good... tried to use it for a while on my mac... but sublime is just better for me :)
15:36<gparent>i run tmux stock config
15:36<@akerl_>I've got tmux powerbar starred on github, I'll set it up one day
15:36<swaj>on the AIX boxes at work, vim is all we have :P
15:36<Nivex>gparent: you can do that if you learned it from scratch. coming from screen I needed some help
15:36<swaj>so I'm used to it
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15:36<trippeh>swaj: You have vim on your AIX's!? Lucky
15:36<gparent>Nivex: b-d is so much more natural to me
15:36<trippeh>We only get vi and ed
15:37<Nivex>akerl_: powerline?
15:37<swaj>vim, vi, same difference for hacking config files :P
15:37<puppet>gparent: omfgz.
15:37<@akerl_>Nivex: That's what it is
15:38<@akerl_>I have sooo many starred github repos to check out one day :P
15:38<puppet>stop making me want to change to tmux
15:38<gparent>screen kills kittens
15:38<gparent>tmux saves them
15:39-!-KindOne [] has joined #linode
15:39<swaj>I actually disabled the little tmux status bar
15:39<puppet>im adding one to screen now
15:40<gparent>mine shoots across diagonally and adds rainbows at random
15:40<@akerl_>swaj: If I don't do that, I curse at the screen when I think I'm in tmux and I'm not
15:41<swaj>some people do everything inside a screen or tmux
15:41<swaj>I'm like, meh
15:41<swaj>just for irssi
15:41<swaj>do you launch a tmux as soon as you open a new shell?
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15:41<Gnewt>I have my .bashrc set up to automatically reattach to screen
15:41<Gnewt>window 0 is irssi, then I have other windows for different projects
15:42<swaj>yeah it's not a bad idea
15:42<swaj>when I'm hackering on python stuff
15:42<swaj>to have a window per project so I don't have to launch multiple terminals
15:42<Gnewt>but most of the time I'm logging in it's to chat, so typing 'ssh fleeting' and getting straight to irssi is dope
15:43<swaj>maybe I should start using the multiple sessions within a single tmux thing
15:44<swaj>tmux can split windows too I think
15:44-!-cwillu_at_work [] has joined #linode
15:45<swaj>it's like a console version of those WM's that do the split windows
15:46<Nivex>tmux can split windows in both directions. stock screen can only split horizontally. debian carries a vertical split patch.
15:46<linbot>New news from forum: Caching Questions in Performance and Tuning <>
15:46-!-epiloque [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:46<swaj>good thing I use debian \o/
15:46-!-_35ggg [~oftc-webi@] has joined #linode
15:47<_35ggg>Thanks for the RAM upgrade guys.
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15:48<swaj>re: nicklist in irssi -- seems silly to me, when you're in a channel with 600 people :)
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15:51<jchen>yeah i stopped using nicklist
15:51<jchen>no point
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16:00<Gnewt>I see nothing wrong with running /na when you're curious
16:05<puppet>why would you need that ;P
16:09-!-A-KO [as@2601:a:f00:1f:f032:e178:4033:1037] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:10<linbot>New news from forum: Caching Questions in Performance and Tuning <>
16:12-!-t27duck [] has joined #linode
16:12*t27duck has developed a love-hate relationship with jquery mobile
16:15<Bansku_>I have developed a hate relationship with mobile devices when it comes to developing
16:15-!-tharkun [~0@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:15<sracer12>for reference for any support ops, 1746406 ticket is closed successfully, i didnt want to reopen to add this but things are working fine and the random lock ups are no longer hapening
16:15-!-Ikaros|cell [] has joined #linode
16:16<Bansku_>Last time I found an obscure bug in Android when I worked on a web app
16:20<puppet>I should stop slacking and just fix some stuff
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16:29<usser>if i've deployed the drupal stackscript to create a second profile on my linode, how do I go about connecting to it
16:29<usser>(via ssh or http
16:30<kyhwana>usser: you ssh into it?
16:30<usser>when i ssh to my linode it takes me to the first profile i ceated
16:31<@akerl_>Only one profile can be booted on a Linode at a time
16:31<usser>its probably a pretty noobish question
16:31<@akerl_>If you want to boot another profile, you need to select it and reboot from the LinodeManager
16:31<usser>well, that answers my question ;P
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16:36<kyhwana>You can't have two profiles on one linode booted at once
16:36<kyhwana>(If you want that, get another linode)
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16:54<neurochrome>hey folks, just noticed when I checked my site using dnshealth that I don't have any sdf records, how might I go about setting that up?
16:54<neurochrome>I don't have any cnam, txt or srv configurations. What do I need?
16:54-!-rylwin [] has joined #linode
16:55<@akerl_>What makes you think you need them?
16:55<kyhwana>wtf is a sdf record?
16:55<neurochrome>dnshealth says mail could get flagged as spam
16:55<kyhwana>neurochrome: are you sending email via that domain on your linode?
16:55<neurochrome>I have a mailserver on that domain
16:55<kyhwana>then yes, you want SPF+DKIM + reverse DNS to match whats in your MX records.
16:56<kyhwana>(don't think you need SRV records for mail tho)
16:56<swaj>SRV are nice for certain mail clients to autodiscover settings
16:56<neurochrome>ok, so on the linode config page I have txt and cname and srv
16:56<neurochrome>which do I fill in?
16:56<swaj>it'll be a TXT record
16:56<neurochrome>I can forget the other two?
16:56<swaj>SPF does have its own type, but linode manager doesn't support it, so you can use TXT as a substitute
16:56<kyhwana>swaj: there are SPF records now too
16:57<swaj>not in linode manager
16:57<neurochrome>thanks for the link!
16:57<neurochrome>OK, so I only need fill in the txt record
16:57-!-BOKEH [] has quit [Quit: See ya!]
16:57<swaj>I host my DNS with though
16:58<swaj>they support native SPF
16:58<kyhwana>I run my own DNS, and make the linode NS's my slaaaves
16:58<kyhwana>(I should look at setting up a 2nd master on my other node sometime)
16:59-!-jonathan [] has joined #linode
17:00<jonathan>Just had my credit card emptied. Thanks Linode.
17:00<neurochrome>you had ample time to cancel it though!
17:00<neurochrome>I did
17:01<jonathan>Yeah, but I trusted them.
17:02<kyhwana>jonathan: well, good thing your bank protects you against fraud like that, eh?
17:02<t27duck>if I may interject, I don't think credit cards get "emptied". they get fraudulent charges applied to them (which can be challenged and canceled) though
17:02<swaj>especially if you point out the breach to your bank...
17:04<Gnewt>so I figure I should get a new card eh?
17:04<kyhwana>Gnewt: I did :P
17:04<jonathan>Yes, the bank will reverse then, but that might take 5 days.
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17:04<puppet>i really dont think it is due to Linode jonathan
17:04<swaj>as soon as I heard the linode DB was compromised... I cancelled my card.
17:05<neurochrome>Linode should have been more open, immediately. They should have advised users to cancel their cards
17:05<puppet>if there was a chanse in the world that the hacker had access to CCs
17:05<puppet>they would have been more open
17:05<t27duck>puppet: mixed reports. they're everywhere
17:05<puppet>i think by law
17:05<neurochrome>users, even without this prompt should have cancelled their cards
17:05<puppet>t27duck: i think some of the reports are bogus
17:05<puppet>neurochrome: we just kept less money on the card for a while right now
17:05<jonathan>It's actually a MasterCard linked cheque card, so it's "real money".
17:06<jonathan>Which I no longer have access to now, until 5 days.
17:06<neurochrome>puppet, that's no way to live ;)
17:06<t27duck>and that is the flaw with "check cards"
17:06<puppet>neurochrome: :D
17:06-!-philip-- [] has joined #linode
17:06<t27duck>vs credit cards
17:06<puppet>debit card?
17:06-!-raijin [] has joined #linode
17:06<t27duck>so youre BANK ACCOUNT got emptied
17:06<niftylettuce>is it bad that I have $1400+ in Amazon AWS promo credits but I'd rather still pay $20/month for a Linode?
17:06<niftylettuce> /cc caker
17:07<t27duck>puppet: more like "check cards". dept cards that can be ran as credit
17:07<puppet>t27duck: ah ok
17:07<neurochrome>My details were debit (bank account) too. I cancelled straight away.
17:07<t27duck>those are harder to "protect" and "reverse" than credit cards
17:07<jonathan>It was either Linode or Google or Facebook.
17:08<t27duck>because you're pulling directly from a checking account
17:08<EugeneKay>niftylettuce - where'd you get those from? :-p
17:08<kyhwana>jonathan: oh dear. This is why I had a seperate account for my debit card that I just transfered money into when I wanted to buy stuff online, for that very reason!
17:08<niftylettuce>EugeneKay: I'm a 1337 hacker that gets rewarded for being 1337
17:08<niftylettuce>lulz mikegrb
17:08<EugeneKay>niftylettuce - hehe. I have some AMIs you can run
17:08<niftylettuce>EugeneKay: sure
17:08<jonathan>Those are the only people who have those details. I don't even use it IRL.
17:08<niftylettuce>anyone want simulations run?
17:08<EugeneKay>I spent $500 on Spot Instances last November
17:09<EugeneKay>That was only ~24 hours >_>
17:10<neurochrome>kyhwana, so if I had a domain and needed to setup the txt records for mail on that domain, what would the values be?
17:10<puppet>neurochrome: depends on mail. depends on what you want.
17:11<neurochrome>hmmm, what is the variable as far as mail goes?
17:11<kyhwana>neurochrome: I dunno, you should know though
17:11<puppet>neurochrome: everything
17:11<neurochrome>I have a postfix/dovecot confi
17:11<puppet>neurochrome: first hit on google.
17:11<neurochrome>all I know is it was a huge ballache setting it up! =)
17:12<neurochrome>and I was glad when it was done and working
17:12<neurochrome>it's been like this for over a year
17:12<neurochrome>only just realising that I should have configured this too
17:12<jonathan>, Derby House and Golf Smith were the 3 merchants used, and a 0.50USD tx right in the beginning to verify that the card details were still legit. All over in 15 minutes.
17:13<neurochrome>someone should add these details to a "how to setup a mail server with postfix/dovecot" guide on the linode wiki
17:13<puppet>neurochrome: do that then :P
17:13<neurochrome>seems like they missed a final important step!
17:14-!-rylwin [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:14<neurochrome>I just might! (if I get it to work first!)
17:14<neurochrome>what could possibly go wrong!... ha ha ha
17:14-!-rylwin [] has joined #linode
17:14<neurochrome>peace guys, thanks for the links and such anyway, gtg
17:15<Gnewt>Ok cool I just cancelled my card
17:15<puppet>Gnewt: i have a hard time beliving that the CC info is out
17:15<linbot>New news from forum: Proxy Attempts in Log? in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
17:16<t27duck>puppet: ehh... I'd believe it. They've been caught lying in the blog/emails about the whole incident
17:16<Gnewt>puppet: Yeah I do too, but I'd rather have a new card number than an empty acct
17:16-!-neurochrome [] has quit [Quit: The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel...]
17:16<puppet>t27duck: well, still, if CCs where out, they would loose more in the end not telling
17:16<Gnewt>I wouldn't accuse them of lying. Security breaches always bring confusion.
17:16<Gnewt>It's hard to quickly assess the extent of a compromis.
17:17<t27duck>no no. look at the first blog post, then look at the 2nd. the first said no one had access to credit card info and the linode manager. the 2nd blog post has the oposite
17:17<t27duck>because they didn't play ball with the hackers
17:17<t27duck>so they had to come clean
17:17<Gnewt>Linode staff wasn't aware of the extent of the breach when they published the first post.
17:18<t27duck>also, why is this still a thing
17:18<Gnewt>What exactly?
17:18<t27duck>default CF error pages still being used
17:19<t27duck>that's one of the first things you short circuit
17:19<jonathan>I think I'm going to have to move to Amazon
17:19<jonathan>Sad because I liked my linode boxes.
17:20<Ikaros|cell>Eww Amazon
17:20<t27duck>jonathan: k
17:20<Gnewt>If you wanna do it do it
17:20<Ikaros|cell>I like mine too, and I an staying put :D
17:20<Gnewt>telling everybody else about it is masturbation
17:20<ratrace_>or venting frustration
17:21<trippeh>Masturbation is good.
17:21<trippeh>Just sayin
17:21<t27duck>it's like me going to a Sony forum and declaring that I'm buying a 3DS and trading in my Vita
17:21<t27duck>also what trippeh just said
17:21*t27duck is glad he learned to type with one hand
17:21<t27duck>errrr.... i mean...
17:22<Gnewt>14:21 < t27duck> it's like me going to a Sony forum and declaring that I'm buying a 3DS and trading in my Vita
17:22-!-Corey_ is now known as Corey
17:22-!-Corey is now known as Corey_
17:23<t27duck>not that I went to a Sony forum to do that
17:24<t27duck>just an example
17:24-!-kenetik [] has joined #linode
17:25<t27duck>that said, time to order some hot box...
17:25<kenetik>I'm trying to figure out the best solution to be able to send emails from my contact forms and from 'magento commerce' script.
17:26<t27duck>are both in PHP?
17:26<Gnewt>hot box?
17:26<puppet>kenetik: use a smtp server? ;)
17:26<t27duck>also, never heard to magento commerce
17:26<t27duck>Gnewt: pizza chain
17:27<t27duck>expensive, but a good comfort dinner when you had one of those days/weeks
17:29<t27duck>yep, pretty much
17:29-!-Native [] has joined #linode
17:29<kenetik>puppet: I have an outside smtp server, but it doesn't seem to be helping my solution
17:30<puppet>kenetik: whats doesnt work?
17:31<kenetik>Well using magento, when I send a transactional email it says 'sent' but no email was sent. On my website I don't know how to use an smtp server for my contact form?
17:32<puppet>kenetik: you prob. need to configureyour sendmail to use be a satilite
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17:42<ratrace_>kenetik: ssmtp
17:42<kenetik>ratrace_: ? link?
17:43-!-tharkun [~0@] has joined #linode
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17:48<kenetik>ratrace_: ty
17:48-!-fezziwig [] has joined #linode
17:49<puppet>kenetik: which smtp service are you planning to use?
17:49<kenetik>puppet: i have an email server through rackspace
17:49-!-A-KO [as@2601:a:f00:1f:8c12:e64:ebf9:da3f] has joined #linode
17:50<puppet>kenetik: how much email per month do you send?
17:50<kenetik>not a tremendous amount
17:50-!-siebo [~siebo@] has joined #linode
17:51<puppet>kenetik: but since it doesnt work you don't know how the deliverbility is right? :)
17:52<kenetik>I guess?
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17:55<trav>hello all. I am having problems with my linode beng extremely slow and taking up large amounts of Apache's CPU usage.
17:55-!-Allie [] has joined #linode
17:55<Hackintech_>staticsafe: I'm using weeaboochat
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17:56-!-laser is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
17:56<kyhwana>trav: define "slow". Are you swapping a lot?
17:56<trav>interested if anyone here could assist me in troubleshooting this apache cpu usage problem
17:56<trav>hello kyhwana
17:56<puppet>trav: how many visitors do you have? running php? etc etc
17:57<trav>how can i see this - i am running php - it is four mediawiki sites - it is not because of number of visitors
17:58<puppet>trav: trav job queue maybe?
17:58<swaj>trav: are you using mod_php?
17:58<kyhwana>trav: uh, you can check the graphs in the linode dashboard for IOs..
17:58<puppet>or run iotop on the server
17:59<trav>would running vmstat 1 20 or top -b -n 1 help id the problem - support staff said : It looks like Apache is consuming a high amount of CPU. Your CPU usage graph indicates that you are currently using approximately 250%. I did everything requested in
17:59-!-Solupus [] has joined #linode
17:59<trav>thank you puppet. thanks kyh
17:59<puppet>trav: well, i would check jobqueues
17:59<puppet>trav: and if you arent runnning job queues as cronjob, you should
17:59<puppet>trav: how static is the content on the site?
17:59-!-Hackintech_ [~Hackintec@] has quit []
18:00<Solupus>hi, if i purchase a 1024 Linode for a year and then resize the Linode to 2048. How would I be charged?
18:00<jstead>it is always prorated
18:01<@dwfreed>you'll be charged the prorated difference between the two plans for the remainder of your current billing period
18:01<trav>the content is fairly static
18:01<trav>reading your article now puppet
18:01<@dwfreed>for example, if you're half way through the year of service you paid for, you'll pay for the remaining 6 months
18:01-!-Hackintech_ [~Hackintec@] has joined #linode
18:02<Hackintech_>I like weechat's
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18:02<Solupus>dwfreed: so... (without accounting for the discount) $240 for 1024. after 6 months passes and I resize linode i'll be billed an additional $240 or does it expire at 6months?
18:03<@dwfreed>Solupus: you'd pay 120
18:03<trav>puppet - this is not just affecting one wiki - but all four - so would it really be an issue of runjobs.php?
18:03<@dwfreed>because it's 240 difference (for one year), and you only have to pay half of it
18:04<Solupus>ahh.. so i get a refund for the 120? and its up to me on what service I would be paying for next correct?
18:04<dand1>does the CPU graph shows only what happens on my node or is it effected by other nodes on the host?
18:04<@dwfreed>dand1: only your node
18:04-!-Ikaros|cell [] has quit [Quit: Disconnected]
18:04<bacon>Does anyone know where i can find the src for sl? That old gimmick that displays a train over the terminal if you type that instead of ls
18:05<dand1>dwfreed: any idea why is there a difference between the graph and vmstat?
18:05-!-Ikaros|cell [] has joined #linode
18:05<@dwfreed>dand1: vmstat is out of 100; your graphs can go up to 800
18:05<@dwfreed>dand1: so muliply vmstat's numbers by 8
18:05<@dwfreed>(assuming you've rebooted since we increased the core count to 8)
18:06<@dwfreed>also remember that the graphs are 5 minute average
18:06-!-Hackintech_ [~Hackintec@] has quit []
18:06<dand1>dwfreed: ok. thanks
18:07-!-Hackintech_ [~Hackintec@] has joined #linode
18:07<trav>here is my dashboard for my linode - very hi CPU usage -
18:07-!-puppet [~iriche@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:13<trav>kyhwana any suggestions? I can run any commands
18:13<trav>to analyize the problem
18:14<kyhwana>trav: if you're not swapping, you need to find out why apache is using so much CPU time, maybe check your apache/php/etc logs
18:14<trav>how do i know if i am swapping? thank you
18:15<kyhwana>.. whats your swap usage like? check "free -m" and your linode dashboard IO graph
18:15<trav>here is the graph: it is really high
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18:16<ratrace_>trav: do you have many pages in the site? like thousands or tens of thousands?
18:16-!-rylwin [] has joined #linode
18:16<trav>results for free -m
18:17<kyhwana>trav: the 3rd graph is missing
18:17-!-newip [] has joined #linode
18:17<trav>rat, only about 10,000 for all
18:18<trav>third graph:
18:18<kyhwana>also, if you reboot, you'll get 8 vcpus instead of 4. (and there's a free ram upgrade too, just not automatic inj fremont)
18:18<trav>ok i was planning to reboot again - this is a reoccuring problem though...
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18:19<ratrace_>trav: so what are you concerned about, those peaks?
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18:20<trav>my 4 sites are slow - really slow during the peeks. i have less than 10,000 pages between the four sites. one site has 4,522 pages
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18:20<ratrace_>can you confirm googlebot passing through those sites during the peaks?
18:21<ratrace_>googlebot is fairly aggressive unless you slow it down via webmastertools
18:21<ratrace_>if you have thousands of pages it could hit you with 2-4 parallel requests
18:21<trav>i would determine this on the user logs correct?
18:21<ratrace_>access log
18:21<kyhwana>trav: are you doing any caching? (php-apc, etc)
18:22<trav>mediawiki automatically caches
18:23<linbot>New news from forum: Unixbench Results - post free upgrade in Performance and Tuning <>
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18:50<@dwfreed>Yaakov: nice
18:51<Yaakov>dwfreed: pretty funny.
18:52-!-mode/#linode [-o dwfreed] by ChanServ
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18:52<gparent>oh lmao
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18:52<gparent>I didn`t even notice the hair thing at first
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18:52<gparent>high five Yaakov
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18:53<echoee>hey guys, got a quick question re DNS migration
18:54-!-blueness|uclibc [] has quit []
18:54<echoee>say I have the current DNS hosted somewhere, and I want to move it to linode
18:54<echoee>I am worrying about teh down time
18:54-!-blueness|uclibc [] has joined #linode
18:54<echoee>so is there any procedures I should look at?
18:54<echoee>to try to mitigate this?
18:54<@akerl_>Set up the DNS at Linode the same way it is at your current provider, then update the nameservers with your registrar to point to our nameservers
18:55<@akerl_>0 downtime
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18:55<echoee>should i reduce teh before doing that?
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18:55<gparent>one thing I`ve read is that you can help reduce caching problems and downtime by gradually reducing your TTLs, and then doing what akerl_ said. Actually if you keep your websites up on both ends until the traffic stops on the old server, there shouldn`t be downtime at all.
18:56-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has joined #linode
18:56<@akerl_>gparent: Not sure why gradually would be better than sudden?
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18:56<gparent>akerl_: I`ve been trying t ofind the serverfault answer.
18:56<gparent>It seemed smart a few months ago!
18:56<gparent>I think the idea was to get
18:56<echoee>our server sits elsewhere
18:56<@akerl_>Also, are you changing where the DNS is hosted, or where your site is hosted?
18:57-!-A-KO [as@2601:a:f00:1f:8c12:e64:ebf9:da3f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:57<echoee>a bit annoying, but the requirement was to have as low ping as possible
18:57-!-Guest3006 is now known as blueness
18:57<echoee>and since we're hosting a service in Sydney/Australia, we needed to get a VPS there
18:58<echoee>so the webserver is external to the current DNS setup and to linode
18:58<kyhwana>echoee: so why are you changing where your NS is hosted?
18:58<@akerl_>terminology sidebar: it's low *latency* you're referring to, not low "ping"
18:58<echoee>aye, thanks for informing
18:58<echoee>low latency it is
18:58<echoee>the current DNS server has hickups
18:59<echoee>and is a hit/miss
18:59<gparent>starts by "If everybody "plays by the rules" "
18:59<gparent>Although unless echoee is having some serious traffic it won`t matter
18:59-!-Milos_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59<@akerl_>echoee: Then yes, set up identical records in our DNS Manager, then point your domain at our nameservers
18:59<echoee>thanks akerl!
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19:00<@akerl_>gparent: Yea, I get the purpose of lowering the TTL. I meant why would you gradually lower it, instead of lowering it all at once
19:00<@akerl_>And the word gradual doesn't appear to be on that page
19:00<trippeh>gparent: Not sure what that post has to do with moving DNS
19:00<trippeh>Moving a site that DNS points to on the other hand..
19:00<gparent>akerl_: They use exponential
19:00<gparent>In that paragraph
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19:01<echoee>(8:58:09 AM) kyhwana: echoee: so why are you changing where your NS is hosted? <--- unstable
19:01<@akerl_>They don't appear to understand what exponential means
19:01<gparent>You're right, he doesn't explain very well why you would do this gradually over time
19:01<echoee>i run a web/native app service
19:02<gparent>I get that he's trying to strike the right balance between TTL and caching, but I don't get why two changes can't do it.
19:02<kyhwana>echoee: ahh, fair enough
19:02-!-KindOne [] has joined #linode
19:02<echoee>and hickups in the DNS is unacceptable, not to mention frustrating and the feeling of hopelessness
19:02<echoee>once the DNS server went out for 36 hours
19:02<echoee>1 and a half days
19:02<gparent>'the' DNS server?
19:03<echoee>well, the DNS service we're using
19:03<gparent>So all of their servers went down for 36 hours?
19:03<gparent>and they still have customers?
19:03<echoee>it wasnt too bad tehn because we have just got the service up and running, and there wasnt that much traffics
19:03<echoee>you'd be amazed at what's available in australia
19:03<echoee>it's bloody shocking
19:04-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
19:04<echoee>the other time, it went down for like 3 hours
19:04<echoee>and that was when our service were up and running for a while
19:04<echoee>i kept getting calls telling us that it's down
19:04<echoee>and it's very frustrating
19:05-!-tharkun [~0@] has joined #linode
19:05<echoee>it's VERY hard explaining to a standard person what's happening
19:05<@akerl_>Is he implying we're non-standard people?
19:06<echoee>they dont know much about the web, not much about DNS etc, and they kept saying when it's up
19:06<echoee>i imply we're Interweb savvy ppl
19:06-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has joined #linode
19:07<echoee>and their service doesnt allow slave DNS records
19:07-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has quit []
19:07<echoee>which in my simple mind, was what I think would help leverage the problem
19:07-!-laser` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:08<ghosticus>what's a dns
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19:10*Hackintech_ sells staticsafe
19:10<Nightmare>what's a internet
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19:11*ghosticus orders some Tea at the staticsafe
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19:15<linbot>New news from forum: Caching Questions in Performance and Tuning <>
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19:29<kyhwana>grrr stupid lack of ECDSA support in sshfp
19:29<+dwfreed>kyhwana: there's a draft spec, but it hasn't made it to a full RFC yet
19:29-!-mode/#linode [-v dwfreed] by ChanServ
19:29<dwfreed>and because it's not an RFC, bind doesn't support it
19:30<dwfreed>(nor does OpenSSH, for that matter)
19:30<kyhwana>dwfreed: erm, bind support SSHFP in general, how does it need to support algorithm 3?
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19:31<dwfreed>kyhwana: BIND does validation on SSHFP records, and whines if it doesn't recognize it
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19:33<staticsafe>I'm amused that the bind package in the Arch Linux repos is currently in "Orphaned" status
19:34-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has joined #linode
19:34<dwfreed>Gentoo's is actively maintained, and I've actually filed a few bugs for it
19:34-!-blueness|uclibc [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:35<praetorian>there was some stuff on the list bout bind being orphaned
19:35<praetorian>and why
19:35<staticsafe>see thread "BIND10? No, thanks." on arch-dev-public
19:35<praetorian>at least someonething is kept maintained in gentoo
19:36<bob2>lulz arch
19:36<praetorian>hey @bob2
19:37*Gnewt pushes djbdns ;)
19:38<rnowak>RT @prae hey @bob2
19:38*staticsafe slaps Gnewt
19:38<Gnewt>psh what's wrong w/ djbdns
19:38<Gnewt>zone edit, cat, make
19:38<Gnewt>changes are live
19:38<praetorian>sup @rnowak -- RT @prae hey @bob2
19:38<HoopyCat>things i love include, but are not limited to, how quartus will gladly build a project without any pin assignments, simply selecting the most convenient from the 672 available pins without regard to what they're soldered to
19:38<@heckman>I've been meaning to run Yadifa.
19:39<trippeh>lolthread. a bind10-common would be too hard
19:39<HoopyCat>you'd THINK it'd be a fatal error, but no
19:39<praetorian>did you just swear at me?
19:39<Gnewt>djbdns is the dopest
19:39<praetorian>YADIFA TO YOU TOO
19:40<praetorian>no, die
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19:40<ghosticus>if you had capitalized your first letter, i wouldn't be able to tell you an Praefectus apart
19:41<EugeneKay>They're two separate people?
19:41<praetorian>i wouldn't. that 's because capitalising is lame.
19:41<staticsafe>that said, has anyone here played with BIND10?
19:41<EugeneKay>Is it stable yet?
19:41<dwfreed>staticsafe: I know Ttech has, you should ask him
19:41<@Praefectus>EugeneKay: no, we're the same, just like you and every other eugene that comes in here is the same
19:41<dwfreed>Ttech: ♥
19:41<trippeh>But dang, all the utils in python? Damn. Some peoples poorly written scripts are going to be dog slow
19:41<EugeneKay>Praefectus - good good
19:41<praetorian>Praefectus: that's mean to all the other Eugene's.
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19:42<@Praefectus>i know :( im sorry
19:42<Gnewt>yadifa looks cool
19:42<kyhwana> < durp ipv4 run out
19:43<praetorian>yo dawg, i heard you liked erlang. so i wrote you a erlang interrepter for python
19:43-!-pigeonor [] has joined #linode
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19:44<Nivex>kyhwana: It's a good thing Linode has its IPv6 squared away.
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19:46<praetorian>i didn't know ipv6 was square.
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19:47<echoee>yeh, i see lots of colons in ipv6
19:47<Nivex>You're a square if you don't deploy.
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19:47<echoee>lamest joke i attempted yet!
19:47<trippeh>Deployed 12 years ago, d00d
19:48<praetorian>you don't have ipv7 yet?
19:48<trippeh>only in lab!
19:48-!-Ehtyar [] has joined #linode
19:49<HoopyCat>hmm, i was certain that removing sheep from a major intersection is a fire department responsibility, but apparently, MCSO got the dispatch
19:50-!-ojh [] has joined #linode
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19:51<HoopyCat>Nivex: monroe county sheriffs office
19:52<HoopyCat>i'm watching the dispatch log for the inevitable wollover MVA, tho
19:52-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
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19:53<HoopyCat>anyway, always remember to import your pin assignments before building an FPGA image, 'cuz random stuff will happen. like a sudden flock of sheep shutting down a major intersection
19:54-!-rylwin [] has quit []
19:56*Nivex laughs
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19:57<gparent>HoopyCat: Lol, I'll try to reuse that flock of sheep image in the future
19:58<swaj>I think I'm gonna make a big cluster of 2 TB disks and set up zfs with RAID-Z
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20:21*Praefectus took 1gb from everyone on every host in every dc and made a big cluster
20:21-!-nisstyre [] has joined #linode
20:22<ghosticus>what are you storing
20:22<@Praefectus>cat pictures and ponyporn
20:22<ghosticus>content for ?
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20:23*t27duck yawns
20:23<t27duck>did i miss anything?
20:24-!-Garbee [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:26*HoopyCat generates sopc again
20:26<Tea>t27duck: Yes. North Korea confirmed they own Linode.
20:26<t27duck>so... business as usual
20:27<HoopyCat>north linode is best linode
20:27<ghosticus>t27duck: Yes. A linode op has been stealing space from all hosts
20:27<Tea>Nah. We only had one guy sent to the gulag today.
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20:27<t27duck>ghosticus: again... so business as usual
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20:44<petey>is it possible to trace the DNS on something to see why a website isnt working?
20:44<petey>even after I enabled it and created the virtualhost
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20:46<gparent>you can use dig with +trace maybe
20:46<gparent>not sure how that traces things
20:47<kyhwana>petey: if the DNS is right, then its your vhost config, check the logs
20:48<kyhwana>petey: whats the domain/IP it's meant to be?
20:48<petey>the DNS is all pointed correctly, it must be on my side
20:48<petey>but i just cant figure out why its not working
20:48<kyhwana>well, check your web server logs then, enalbe debugging if you have to
20:48<petey>can you throw me a bone with the logs
20:48<@akerl_>There is no web server responding on
20:49<kyhwana>of course, it helps if your webserver is actually up
20:49<petey>holy crap, its not
20:49<petey>but it says its running
20:49<petey>it was running 20 minutes ago
20:49<kyhwana>well its not running now
20:49<kyhwana>check your logs (/var/log/)
20:49<petey>i issued a reboot
20:49<@Praefectus>20 minutes ago != now
20:49<petey>linode says "running"
20:49<@akerl_>Not the Linode
20:49<@akerl_>The web server
20:50<@Praefectus>your linode != your web server
20:50<kyhwana>well theres your problem
20:50<@akerl_>Though it also isn't responding to ICMP
20:50*akerl_ bets overactive firewall
20:50<petey>an overactive firewall?
20:50<kyhwana>petey: what does LISH say?
20:50*akerl_ bets PEBKAC
20:51<kyhwana>oh, it's up now
20:51<petey>im ssh'd in
20:51<petey>i just rebooted the linode
20:51<kyhwana>petey: is it working now?
20:51<petey>but i wonder what could have happened
20:51<@akerl_>20:51 < petey> i just rebooted the linode
20:51<@akerl_>I bet that happened
20:52<petey>i rebooted it AFTER you guys told me it wasnt working
20:52<petey>is what im saying
20:52<kyhwana>why would you do that?
20:52<kyhwana> /zim
20:52<petey>i dont know it was the first thing that came to mind
20:52<petey>well what should i have done then
20:52-!-blueness|uclibc [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:52<@akerl_>Figured out why it wasn't working?
20:53<petey>well it cant be too late now can it
20:53<@akerl_>You can still check your logs
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20:57<petey>so i think i figured it out, maybe you guys can guide me here
20:57<petey>i had 2 VH's set up
20:57<petey>mustachecrawl2013 /
20:57<petey>i had the same thing for both servername and serveralias
20:57<petey>because i just want going to the crawl site
20:58-!-blueness|uclibc [] has joined #linode
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21:03<kyhwana>"mustachecrawl2013" isn't a valid FQDN
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21:07<petey>my server's fqdn is dynasty
21:07<dwfreed>that's also not a valid fqdn
21:08<dwfreed>an fqdn has a hostname and a domain name part; '' is an example of a valid fqdn
21:08<petey>my hostname is dynasty
21:08<petey>fqdn is
21:09<kyhwana>petey: why do you have vhosts setup again?
21:09<petey>i just follow the guides on linode's website
21:10<kyhwana>oh, I see, bash vs crawl
21:10-!-softmetal [~softmetal@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:a6ad] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:10<puppet>both thoose sites go to for me
21:11<kyhwana>hmm, me too
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21:18<thinkerweb>hi, I created a subdomain, and says my subdomain looks good, but when I visit there is nothing loaded
21:19-!-danblack [~danblack@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:19<kyhwana>thinkerweb: what exactly have you done so far? and what are you trying to do?
21:19<kyhwana>EugeneKay: !redact
21:19<EugeneKay>!to thinkerweb redact
21:19<linbot>thinkerweb: Please don't redact or change things when you pastebin your configs or logs. It's a lot easier for us to debug if we're seeing the same thing you are.
21:19<EugeneKay>aka; what is your domain? ;-)
21:22<thinkerweb>I went to domain manager, clicked 'Add A Domain Zone' and I added subdomain
21:22<@Praefectus>thinkerweb: dns is updated every quarter hour
21:22<thinkerweb>The I clicked 'Check'
21:22<thinkerweb>It says "Your zone looks good" after a few mins of waiting
21:23<amitz>is it correct to assume that i can reduce the pact of iowait by increasing the number of virtual processor?
21:23<thinkerweb>Now I want to put a website at the new subdomain, so I have a directory in my web server root "mynewsubdomain" and I visited and it didn't load
21:23<gparent>that button eventually returnsÉ
21:23<gparent>good to know
21:24<thinkerweb>kyhwana, I am trying to set up a subdomain,
21:24<rnowak>amitz: no
21:25<dcraig>it sounds like you may have added when you actually wanted
21:25<gparent>I wish those guys writing RFCs would've thought about some domains and addresses you can use when writing documentation or discussing examples.
21:25<thinkerweb>dcraig, now, that is not the error, in reality I used hcc.mydomain
21:25<rnowak>gparent: ...
21:26<gparent>rnowak: These kind of things bother me!
21:26<@akerl_>gparent: You're joking, right?
21:26<rnowak>gparent: I am not sure if you're trolling or are unaware that they exist
21:26<gparent>Of course I know they exist.
21:26<dcraig>when I visit, I see a website, but there appears to be no A record for hcc.mydomain or
21:26<rnowak>you do now
21:26<gparent>Please tell me you did not just learn about it rnowak ?
21:26<thinkerweb>actually, that is all you have to do, its working
21:27<@Praefectus>thinkerweb: it would be more helpful if you provided the domain, because im fairly sure you dont own ""
21:27<rnowak>gparent: that only works against your kind
21:27<gparent>rnowak: What?
21:27<gparent>All I'm asking is whether or not you're aware, and such are defined,.
21:27<thinkerweb>I made two, one is hcc and one is hcc-dev, I had an already existing dir hcc and maybe that why it didn't work, cause hcc-dev worked fine
21:28<gparent>I guess I need to start using ~ again in here..
21:28<rnowak>now I'm no longer wondering if you're trolling or are unware of such existing, and wonder instead if you're on crack
21:28<thinkerweb>Where is my home directory for hcc-dev now?
21:28<gparent>rnowak: If you scroll up it's pretty obvious I was annoyed at the mynewsubdomain.somedomainthatdoesntexist.tldhere nonsense.
21:28<@akerl_>Is it still 4/20 where you people are?
21:28<dcraig>thinkerweb, you don't really need to add a domain zone to create a subdomain
21:29<gparent>akerl_: Ahah, depends what timezone he's in.
21:29<thinkerweb>dcraig, how do you do it then?
21:29<thinkerweb>dcraig, I want instead of
21:29<dcraig>add an A record (or CNAME record?) for the subdomain you want
21:29<rnowak>talking about oneself in third person is so 2004
21:29<@akerl_>thinkerweb: You don't want a new zone; you want an A record
21:29<gparent>Who did that?
21:30<gparent>I was definitely referring to you.
21:30<@akerl_>I was not
21:30<gparent>Weird then.
21:30<petey>puppet, kyhwana both those sites are supposed to go to, i set up a php redirect
21:31<kyhwana>petey: there you go then, it's working
21:31*gparent acquires new sarcasm detector for rnowak, as akerl_'s appears to be working.
21:31<petey>okay cool thanks
21:31<petey>you got me worried when you asked me about virtual hosts
21:31<rnowak>gparent: just admit defeat and move on
21:31<thinkerweb>I set up a subdomain using the dns manager, but I can't figure out where my root directory for this new site is?
21:31<gparent>vhosts are really no big deal..
21:31<gparent>rnowak: ??
21:31<kyhwana>thinkerweb: its where you set the documentroot in the virtualhost for it
21:31<dcraig>thinkerweb, you can put it wherever you like
21:31<gparent>I have a zone up for on DO's DNS panel, I know damn well they're already defined
21:32<@akerl_>I don't even...
21:32<gparent>akerl_: rnowak thinks I wasn't being sarcastic earlier.
21:32<@akerl_>gparent: Two of us are on the same page here, and you are neither of those people
21:33-!-Jono__ [] has joined #linode
21:33<gparent>You definitely smoked too much yesterday if that wasn't obvious sarcasm to you.
21:33<dwfreed>I think we should all just drop it and move on to other things
21:33<amitz>rnowak: i thought that more virtual processors mean less actual cpu power spent on waiting since that 1 processor power who is waiting is small since the whole power has been distributed to many many processors?
21:34<Nightmare>mmm smoking
21:34<dcraig>amitz just blew my mind
21:34<rnowak>amitz: you don't spend cpu power on waiting
21:34<gparent>dwfreed: It gets annoying to be trolled by staff, or taken as an idiot when making jokes. Sorry I guess.
21:35<amitz>idling cpu power on waiting, or this is still wrong?
21:35<rnowak>amitz: iowait tells you how much processing you're possibly losing because io is limiting you
21:35<rnowak>amitz: other contexts will be scheduled instead
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21:42<Gnewt>18:28 <@akerl_> Is it still 4/20 where you people are?
21:42*Gnewt giggles
21:42<kyhwana>Gnewt: ITHM 20/4. Or 2013/04/20, rather.
21:43<Gnewt>Please. 2013-04-20
21:43-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
21:43<kyhwana>Gnewt: ah yes, you are correct, it's a - not /
21:44<amitz>ah, after thinking about it, i assume my approach work significantly only on host with multiple parallel disks?
21:44*kyhwana stares at amitz, tries to figure out if they're not actually making much sense or if it's just him
21:45<gparent>We're all utterly confused I'm pretty sure.
21:45<gparent>I thought rnowak's answer was pretty straightforward.
21:45<thinkerweb>kyhwana, dcraig, thx
21:45<rnowak>amitz: I don't know what your approach is, but if you're trying to lower iowait, you need something that gives more io than you currently have, if it is disk, or network, or whatever
21:45<kyhwana>amitz: cache everythin in RAM, your IO problem is solved
21:45-!-HedgeMage [~HedgeMage@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:c0df] has joined #linode
21:46<amitz>never mind people, i'm thinking low level. please carry on, this theoretical thinking i have can simply be tested anyway after i arrive at office.
21:47<gparent>akerl_: Do you mind if I PM? Nicely, I swear.
21:47-!-Jono__ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:47<amitz>rnowak: anyhow, thanks. me prepares to go to work.
21:47<gparent>amitz: Good luck..!
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21:56<mentaloutburst>Hello was curious. Is it secure enough to use root if using SSH key authentication?
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21:57<kyhwana>mentaloutburst: I suppose, as long as you keep strick control of that key
21:57<mentaloutburst>Reason I'm asking because I haven't successfully found a way to get WinSCP to use sudo correctly.
21:57-!-Hackintech_ [~Hackintec@2001:470:1f11:588::] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8]
21:57<bob2>well scp can't use sudo
21:57<bob2>but what files do you think you need to transfer as root?
21:58<HoopyCat>i figure it's tough for someone to fake the key, but keys don't prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot
21:58<mentaloutburst>Well I'd rather use key authentication and use some sort of FTP client, I'm not that great with CLI.
21:58<mentaloutburst>Wondering if there is a solution to do both I don't know about.
21:59<bob2>what are you actually trying to do
21:59<kyhwana>mentaloutburst: what are you uploading that requires you to upload as the root user?
21:59-!-Hackintech_ [~Hackintec@2001:470:1f11:588::] has joined #linode
21:59<bob2>it is unlikely you actually want to transfer files with winscp as root
21:59<mentaloutburst>You suggest just creating another user just for FTP, but without key authentication?
21:59<bob2>guess what
21:59<bob2>details matter
21:59<mentaloutburst>It's not a need of using root, but if I use root with ftp, I don't need ot worry about sudo.
22:00<bob2>1) it is exceedingly unlikely you need to copy root-owned files with winscp
22:00<bob2>2) what are you actually trying to do, specifically?
22:00<bob2>3) you're confused about users
22:00<mentaloutburst>Maybe i'm very confused, nvm.
22:01<bob2>something you may have noticed when helping people with topics that you understand well but they do not: it's really really helpful if they just explain their goal, instead of asking questions about the half-solution they've wandered to
22:01<bob2>this is another way of saying
22:02<bob2>which is why it's important for you to explain what your goal was, since it seems likely you have a misconception that's making you try to do something odd, whereas the solution to your original problem was probably simple
22:02-!-treaki_ [] has joined #linode
22:02<HoopyCat>regular expressions
22:02<HoopyCat>err wait, n/m
22:02<bob2>now you have O(n^2) problems
22:02<Nivex>"What is your name? What is your quest? What is the capital of Assyria?"
22:03<kyhwana>This statement is false
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22:04-!-Hackintech__ [~Hackintec@2604:180::21df:4f6f] has joined #linode
22:04*HoopyCat xors kyhwana
22:04-!-Hackintech_ [~Hackintec@2001:470:1f11:588::] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8]
22:05*kyhwana turns into a 1
22:05-!-Hackintech__ is now known as Hackintech_
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22:08<TeddyR>winscp can use ssh keys and talks to the putty ssh agent if needed....
22:09<kyhwana>thinkerweb: we don't know what they're trying to do yet
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22:11<mentaloutburst>I think was just confused and feel silly now, I think way back I tried to use sudo in WinSCP, and then got fixated with trying to do it.
22:12<rnowak>why would you sudo for file transfers?
22:12<mentaloutburst>Probably was trying to use that command feature.
22:13<mentaloutburst>Just been using root, but after thinking about it, made no sense, I disabled root access as recommended, nvm.
22:14*kyhwana jumps up and down, then gives up, loafs on a convienent warm linode.
22:14<rnowak>calm yourself
22:14<karstensrage>if ive never used my api key do i have to do anything?
22:15<mentaloutburst>Is Joomla still popular? I haven't touched it in a while now, forgot it existed. Just seeing 3.1.0 beta 5 is out, last i used it, I think it was 2.15.
22:15<dwfreed>not really, no
22:15<echoee>i heard drupal 8 is really good
22:15<dwfreed>mentaloutburst: I know many people that use Joomla; I myself do not
22:16<echoee>havent used it myself tho, so cant make any person recommendations
22:16<mentaloutburst>Only time I used Drupal was for CiviCRM.
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22:18<mentaloutburst>This Redis on WP is odd. If using a CDN, the page I get to is old, same as before, new content posted, have to F5 to get it to show up.
22:19<dwfreed>that's because your browser is caching the page
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22:24<danols>hi all
22:26<danols>I am setting up samba and trying to secure it - it right now binds to my external ip, I am also doing PPTP with a subnet - how can I have samba run on ? or secure it
22:27<mentaloutburst>Dunno if Linode wants to add this to their KB for SSH Key Authentication, but if you are on Windows 8 and use Cygwin to create the keys, you have to chgrp users * and chmod 400 * to the .ssh folder, or you will get the public permissions error.
22:27-!-Circlefusion [] has joined #linode
22:27<mentaloutburst>On Win 7 it wasn't an issue.
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22:28<@heckman>People actually use Windows 8? o_O
22:28<dcraig>wow, windows 8 *and* cygwin
22:28-!-Zah_ [] has joined #linode
22:28<kyhwana>I was going to say, stop using PPTP, but hey
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22:30<gparent>mentaloutburst: Did you do that following the instructions on some article on the Linode documentation site?
22:30<gparent>Because otherwise, I doubt they'll write something for that particular case
22:30<mentaloutburst>I used the instructions, but I used cygwin instead of putty.
22:30<gparent>Actually you named it, lemme just look
22:31-!-hfb [] has joined #linode
22:31<gparent>I think their response would be 'just use putty' but I'm not sure.
22:31<KyleXY>Does the library even suggest cygwin? Coulda swore just putty
22:31<KyleXY>!library cygwin
22:31<linbot>KyleXY: 1. Copying a Disk Image Over SSH -
22:31<KyleXY>Only once,
22:32<gparent>heckman: You have to if you want to take pictures of you pressing "Decline" to get your refund ;)
22:37-!-mmokrysz [] has joined #linode
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22:38<mentaloutburst>Or anyone who doens't know Linux and purchases a new PC since August, 2012.
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23:32<linbot>New news from forum: Fremont.... Unwanted stepchild? in General Discussion <>
23:32-!-lduros [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:33<kyhwana>bloody fremont
23:33-!-sracer11 [~sracer13@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:37<linbot>New news from forum: Sending mail works and receiving mail fails.... in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
23:37<bob2>let's fail to read our logs
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23:44<learner>hey everyone
23:44<learner>how's everyone doing today
23:44-!-supp [] has joined #linode
23:44<G>kyhwana: not sure it's wise using 'bloody' and a name of a US location in the same sentence at the moment ;)
23:45*kyhwana hides some pressure cookers in some linodes
23:46<G>or that
23:46<kyhwana> "well that's unfortunate"
23:46<G>It put me off getting a boat for a little bit though :)
23:46<learner>i have 2 questions
23:47<learner>if akerl_ is around even better, cause he was in on this convo earlier
23:47<@Praefectus>someone probly has 2 answers
23:47<learner>-A INPUT -m limit --limit 5/min -j LOG --log-prefix "iptables denied: " --log-level 7
23:47<learner>won't this be abused just like my other logging thig
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23:48<dwfreed>no, because it's limited to 5 per minute
23:49-!-mmokrysz [] has left #linode []
23:49<learner>but per ip right
23:49<learner>so somene can use ipv6s and mass ddos me?
23:49<G>kyhwana: wow, the last part is awful
23:50<kyhwana>G: well, think about that for a second.
23:51<kyhwana>What else has science done?
23:51<ghosticus>ddos me
23:52<learner>Praefectus: is that possible or not?
23:52<learner>dwfreed: ^
23:53<kyhwana>(starts with n, ends in uklear)
23:53<G>kyhwana: no idea what that is, by any chance is it something that isn't done in NZ? ;)
23:53<G>(actually it is, but we like to forget that)
23:54<rnowak>you should highlight the entire channel when asking questions, it is really popular fwiw
23:54<dwfreed>learner: IPv6 doesn't use iptables rules, it uses ip6tables rules
23:54<learner>G, you mean sheep shagging?
23:54<G>learner: no, Nuclear reactors
23:54<dwfreed>and it's not per IP, it's 5 per minute
23:54-!-Jono__ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:54<learner>oh? so i have to do another set of rules for my iptables?
23:55<dwfreed>I wouldn't even bother
23:55<dwfreed>it's not worth it
23:55<learner>ok, but like what about my ports and stuff
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23:56<learner>won't they be able to connect to my server where i've blocked access on iptables if i don't block on ipv6tables?
23:56<dwfreed>you can only connect to a port if there's actually a service listening on that port
23:56<learner>ok so let's say i've got webmin running on port 10000
23:57<learner>i've blocked access to it in iptables to
23:57<learner>but that's only ipv4
23:57<@akerl_>If you're gonna do that, why not just bind it to lo and be done?
23:57<kyhwana>learner: why not just .. what akerl said
23:58<learner>ok so go to webmin's conf and say only listen on
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23:58<learner>ok i'll do that
23:58<thinkerweb>One you create a new subdomain by using dns manager and clicking Add a domain zone, how do you then configure your root directory?
23:58<learner>what about port 80 and 443?
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23:59<linbot>Point (0.39230139, 0.11968789) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 435020 of 553599 (π ≈ 3.143213770256088 - 0.001621116666295). http://π
23:59<HedgeMage>thinkerweb: why are you making a new zone for the subdomain instead of adding an A/AAA record under the existing domain zone?
23:59<thinkerweb>HedgeMage, cause I don't know the difference
23:59<kyhwana>What do root directories have to do with DNS zones?
23:59<thinkerweb>hmm, I guess I don't need these domain zones
---Logclosed Mon Apr 22 00:00:13 2013