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#linode IRC Logs for 2014-04-06

---Logopened Sun Apr 06 00:00:06 2014
00:00<tiny>Running an email server now on linode. How do I test what happens when my node runs out of memory.
00:00<@akerl>What is the goal of the test?
00:01<Peng>Punching yourself in the nose would be simpler and equally fun
00:01<James>tiny: assuming lassie is enabled and your node crashes, it will reboot it and oom all over again!
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00:02<@akerl>tiny: If your Linode OOMs, Linux will start killing off whichever processes it wants until you either aren't OOMing or the system is dead
00:02<tiny>akerl: goal is simply knowing what will happen. I'd like to have service available. Noticed RAM usage increases with time.
00:02<@akerl>If the former happens first, the system will keep running, but probably not how you want
00:02<@akerl>If the latter happens first, what James said
00:03<@akerl>with regard to increasing RAM usage, you may want to read
00:04<@akerl>If the goal is to make sure your services are working, you need some kind of external system polling to confirm services are responding, since you obviously cannot trust checks running on the system itself
00:05<@akerl>Since the OOM-killer might just nom them first
00:05<@akerl>And if you're running external checks, "services died because OOM" looks almost exactly like "services died because fire"
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00:06<James>akerl: external checks may fail if the OOM-killer eats ssh though
00:07<James>unless you mean publically exposed services? :P
00:07<@akerl>If I'm checking whether my mail server is alive, I don't poll SSH, I poll the mail server
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00:07<@akerl>I either send it an email and make sure it accepts it and then make sure I can read it back, or I use some kind of mocking that equates to the same
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00:08<tiny>heh, clamd is eating 20%+ of memory
00:09<James>tiny: VIRT or RES?
00:10<tiny>^ ps -eo pmem,pcpu,rss,vsize,args | sort -k 1 -r | less
00:10<staticsafe>yes, clamd eats RAM
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00:20<James>RSS = resident, ok
00:20<James>staticsafe: will it go much over 20%?
00:23<rnowak>no, I use it on a computer with 4MB RAM and it stays on 20% as well
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02:12<gregking_>sup peng
02:12<gregking_>is this a linode corporate irc channel
02:13<@akerl>This is the user community
02:13<gregking_>oh oh cool
02:14<gregking_>i think i used linode before
02:14<Peng>You should definitely use Linode now. :)
02:14*Peng comes on strong
02:14*Peng clicks pen
02:15<gregking_>is linode running on amazon
02:15<Schroeder>yes, this is where the Linode Board of Directors has its annual meeting
02:15<Peng>Linode runs on Linode
02:15<Schroeder>actually, linode runs on NeXTStep
02:16<Schroeder>plus some legacy Xenix systems
02:17<gregking_>anyone have any cool projects running on linode
02:18<@akerl>I help run a site there, it's kinda fun but nothing too crazy
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02:21<gregking_>any hot women here?
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02:27<gparent>they're all in the great country of Linodia
02:27<Schroeder>that went downhill fast
02:29<gregking_>i might get another linode vps
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02:34<Nightmare>linodes make the best significant others
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02:45<linbot>New news from forum: I want the GUI on my Ubuntu server in General Discussion <> || x11 forwarding over ssh - Arch in General Discussion <>
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03:19<linbot>New news from forum: Linode SSD (beta) in Current Betas <>
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03:30<James>linbot has big boobs
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03:32<linbot>New news from forum: Linode SSD (beta) in Current Betas <>
03:33<James>hoping linode is using some form of pcie ssd's
03:33<James>for enterprise, it's the only option that makes sense
03:34<James>kyhwana_: yeah, lots of new servers even come with backplanes compatible with the 2.5in pcie ssd's
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04:57<lakridserne>Okay - why do I have ~23 php-fpm running taking 3 % RAM each? To compare, there are 7 nginx processes using 0.4 % RAM each, and a master php-fpm process using 0.2 % RAM
05:03<lakridserne>well - the question might have been formulated in the wrong way. What I was intending was to ask if there were ways I can optimize php-fpm to use less RAM?
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05:11<dwfreed>yes, reduce min_spare_servers
05:12<dwfreed>keep in mind that that means that a really fast request spike can exhaust your worker pool
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05:13<lakridserne>I have 8 worker processes set in nginx.conf. 1024 worker connections
05:13<dwfreed>no, fpm workers
05:13<lakridserne>ah yeah sorry
05:13<linbot>New news from forum: PBX in a Flash in General Discussion <> || Linode SSD (beta) in Current Betas <>
05:13<dwfreed>nginx workers are threads, and so each doesn't take up an appreciable amount of RAM on its own
05:15<lakridserne>pm.max_children is 50
05:15<lakridserne>pm.start_servers = 5
05:16<lakridserne>and same with min_spare_servers
05:16<lakridserne>oh and pm = dynamic
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05:16<lakridserne>max_spare_servers is 35
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05:33<James>lakridserne: what do you have, 60GB RAM?
05:34<lakridserne>Nope - 1 GB :P
05:34<lakridserne>Using 756 MB / 988
05:34<lakridserne>What would be some good settings?
05:35<lakridserne>So I don't set it too low so it has to use a lot of time to start
05:35<James>lakridserne: is that
05:35<James>+- buffers?
05:36<James>why are 'security' screws a thing
05:36<James>so easy to get hold of bits.
05:38<lakridserne>would be cool with 60 GB RAM though :P
05:39<lakridserne>Only problem is that the Linode with the highest amount of RAM is "only" 40 GB
05:40<lakridserne>Are there some recommended values that the different things should be set to, or is it experimentation?
05:42<lakridserne>I assume it's pm.max_children and pm.max_spare_servers I should adjust, right?
05:43<James>and the min
05:43<James>is the db on a separate box?
05:43<lakridserne>it is
05:43<lakridserne>in the same DC
05:46<James>duh, why would you do mysql over the WAN...
05:46<lakridserne>It's not over WAN, it's over LAN - private IPs
05:47<James>You could even do it over ipv6 or link-locals
05:47<James>(don't use link-locals!)
05:48<lakridserne>I remember trying to do it over IPv6, but something went wrong ;)
05:49<James>did your ipv6 address have 81680085 in it
05:51<linbot>New news from forum: PBX in a Flash in General Discussion <>
05:52<lakridserne>2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe6e:2b14 is the IPv6 for the DB server
05:52<lakridserne>the web server is 2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe6e:fc55
05:53<James>woo! free db!
05:53*James sells it to the NSA
05:54<lakridserne>Nope. It's protected :)
05:54*Peng hits James
05:54*James Peng's peng
05:54<James>WAKE UP
05:54<Peng>(It took me so long because I didn't realize what 8... meant)
05:54<Peng>James: dude, I have two mugs of tea
05:54<James>Peng: Microsoft got yelled at for it, remember
05:54<James>got replaced with DEFACED
05:55<lakridserne>M$ deserves to be yelled at
05:55<lakridserne>Just look at IE or MSE
05:55<lakridserne>What load of crap those are
05:56<rnowak>I am sure your services are much better
05:58<Peng>I'm on Ubuntu 12.04 with Upstart. Say I want to run a script before a certain service (Nginx) starts. How do you think I should do this? Edit Nginx's init script? A racey @reboot cron job? Add a new init script, and figure out how dependencies work?
05:59<lakridserne>BTW why does Linode London not connect to any IX's?
05:59<Peng>It doesn't?
05:59<Peng>Doesn't TelecityGroup *host* an IX in London?
06:00<dwfreed>Keep in mind that Linode uses its datacenters for connectivity, and doesn't handle that itself; hence why it has no ASNs
06:01<rnowak>Peng: start on (starting service-X) should be able to do what you want
06:01<lakridserne>Oh but I meant national IX like it connects to something like DIX or something else
06:02<dwfreed>lakridserne: Linode only connects to Telecity; Telecity is the one that connects to various other providers
06:05<James>Telecity is an IX
06:05<Peng>it's a company
06:05<James>it's a boobies
06:06<lakridserne>hah just trying to understand it all ;) - and as far as I could see it didn't connect with DIX
06:06<dwfreed>James: it's a you need to grow up
06:07<James>it's a wild dwfreed!
06:08<lakridserne>I thought that all IXPs were connected with each other directly?
06:10<dwfreed>not necessarily
06:11<James>lakridserne: hah
06:11<James>in an ideal world, maybe
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06:18<Peng>lakridserne: no, not at all
06:18<Peng>lakridserne: The Internet isn't built solely on IXPs.
06:20<kuzetsa>interexchange point or something?
06:20<kuzetsa>what that?
06:20<Peng>Internet Exchange
06:21<kuzetsa>couldn't sleep, was busy fixing my ntp.conf
06:21<Peng>places where a bunch of networks peer with each other
06:21<kuzetsa>(hi again, Peng)
06:21<Peng>good morning :D
06:21<kuzetsa>lies... my brain thinks it runs on NZ time
06:22<kuzetsa>it's only 22:22 at night, monday the 6th :)
06:22<Peng>^ As I said, places where a bunch of networks peer with each other. The peering is typically free, AIUI, but there are likely fees for hardware and membership and such.
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06:25<Peng>Looks like hte London IX, LINX, is at 10 locations in London, including where Linode is.
06:25<dwfreed>kuzetsa: monday is the 7th
06:25<dwfreed>Peng: LINX is in powergate?
06:25<linbot>New news from forum: Linode SSD (beta) in Current Betas <>
06:25<Peng>dwfreed: Wikipedia says it's connected to 10 buildings.
06:25<kuzetsa>dwfreed: is it?
06:26<Peng>"L"INX is also in Manchester, Edinburgh and Virginia. :D
06:26<dwfreed>kuzetsa: yes, because right now it's 3:26 AM Sunday April 6th, 2014, in UTC-7
06:26<kuzetsa>dwfreed: that doesn't make a whole lot of sense since it's like noon in london and that's aprox median earth time...
06:26<kuzetsa>oh righ
06:26<kuzetsa>I meant sunday the 6th
06:27<kuzetsa>I see what you meant
06:27<dwfreed>in UTC, it is 10:27 AM Sunday April 6th, 2014
06:27<kuzetsa>yeah I stuck the wrong week day with the correct day
06:27<kuzetsa>proof I pulled an all-nighter :(
06:27<dwfreed>Sun Apr 6 10:27:24 UTC 2014
06:27<dwfreed>yay /exec
06:27<Peng>Wikipedia also says LINX operates stratum 1 time servers. \o/ I wonder if it's true.
06:27<kuzetsa>//say //echo $time local NY time is how I tend to do it :)
06:28<kuzetsa>wow that was such wrong syntax
06:28<kuzetsa>//say $time local NY time is how I tend to do it :)
06:28<dwfreed>lol mIRC
06:28<kuzetsa>yes, mIRC is compatible with my screen reader & magnification tools and whatnot :)
06:28<Peng>Mm. LINX's website says they run 3 Meinberg servers for members using DCF77, GPS and MSF.
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06:30<dwfreed>Peng: they're closed servers, so Telecity would need to share what servers they've set up to sync against them, if Telecity has any
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06:33<kuzetsa>Peng: BTW, apparently the reason the PLL / drift correction thinger (aprox 30 to 35 ppm is nominal for my linode host) was because the dead stratum 1 system is having network issues with a highly asymetric path such that the ntp algorithm (naive assumption of half of RTT = 1-way delay) is heavily biased positive on one end, and negative on the other
06:34<kuzetsa>I had to outright remove the peer from the configuration because it's awful and I just didn't realize it
06:37<kuzetsa>so even though locally the clocks at the physical location are all clean & consistent, anything far away network-wise (asymetric RTT delays of over 30ms despite only being a few hundred miles away from linode DC) was getting skewed whenever this peer got selected as "state 6" ( asterisk-* in ntpq, AKA system peer ) and the PLL / ppm drift correcter suddenly jumped to try to correct things
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06:38<Peng>Asymmetry strikes again. That has to be the biggest problem with Internet NTP accuracy today.
06:38<kuzetsa>cheap pipes for soooo many routes
06:39<James>are their any stratum 1 ntp's in KDDI's DC?
06:41<kuzetsa> <-- the huge jump is from selecting the defunct stratum 1 server (which is currently in failover mode and actually a stratum 3 server, AND has network issues due to cheap pipes)
06:41<Peng>Argh, lakridserne left. I was gonna say traceroute suggest Linode *is* directly connected to LINX.
06:42<Peng>Linode/TelecityGroup/I know
06:46<James>KindOne: lololol
06:46<James>kuzetsa: even
06:46<James>screw irc
06:46<James>KindOne: moo
06:46<Peng>you're laughing at the wrong person you jerk
06:47<James>Peng: ?
06:48<Peng>You *were* laughing at the wrong person. Now you're laughing at the right person. But you're still a jerk.
06:48<Peng>You jerk.
06:50<James>Peng: you're a jerk
06:50<James>KindOne's a jerk
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06:53<kuzetsa>James: hmm? what, were you laughing at a bandwidth provider I use sells cheap, non-SLA, asymetrically routed internet in addition to the roof mount for my stratum 0 refclock breaking and whatnot and like... I was so lazy I never bothered to remove that server from the ntp.conf on a server because I hadn't realized how bad it was until I installed munin?
06:54<kuzetsa>Peng: 'cause like... if that's what James was laughing at, I agree ('cause it's funny)
06:54<kuzetsa>you're not a jerk
06:54<James>its pretty darn funny
06:55*kuzetsa evil laugh
06:55<James>you had a stratum 0 on the roof?
06:55<kuzetsa>the antenna for it, yeah
06:55<James>oh cool
06:55*kuzetsa nods
06:57<kuzetsa>trimble brand -- high quality ovenized holdover clock with FPGA-style GPS discipline circuitry and whatnot... it actually has better short-term stability than a lot of rubidium atomic clocks but zero long-term drift because it's indirectly slaved to USNO / navy or whoever runs GPS for the 'states (I forget)
06:58<Peng>Air Force, I think, since satellites
06:58*kuzetsa shrugs
06:58<Peng>but NIST and USNO run ground clocks, and GPS relies on ground clocks too (I think), so who knows...
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06:59<kuzetsa>[quote] "If you know what a GPS-disciplined frequency standard does, chances are you either want one or you already have one. There are many options when it comes to purchasing or building your own GPS standard, but there's a lot to be said for the Trimble Thunderbolt model." --->
06:59<Peng>lakridserne: Traceroute suggests Linode is connected directly to LINX.
06:59<lakridserne>I can see HE is connected with DIX. Would that mean that by moving my servers to Fremont I would get better connection?
07:00<lakridserne>Or does distance play a role here?
07:00<rnowak>no, the internet operates outside the laws of physics
07:00<James>BIG DIX!
07:00<kuzetsa>"... ever-changing regulatory standards, a large number of Thunderbolts have appeared on the surplus market over the last few years" <-- mine was a surplus one which probably once lived at a cellphone base station :)
07:02<Peng>lakridserne: You're in DK?
07:03<James>kuzetsa: i'm assuming there are gps antennas on top of the hugs ass mobile tower in town
07:03<James>if only for the telephone exchange it's wired up to :P
07:04<lakridserne>Peng: Yes
07:04<James>i get 1 bar 30 metres away in a shopping centre
07:05<Peng>lakridserne: And you want to move something 9000 km *away* from you to make it *closer*?
07:07<kuzetsa>welp, staring at munin and/or ntpq isn't going to make the PLL residuals converge any faster, I'm gonna go to bed now that I think I got everything sorted :)
07:07<James>kuzetsa: fix your antenna!
07:08<Peng>kuzetsa: Good night.
07:08<kuzetsa>James: I'm waiting for the weather to warm up... there was snow on the ground in the past 3 weeks (quite deep) to say nothing of the roof itself
07:08<James>fair enough :)
07:09<kuzetsa>besides, there's not much point in having a stratum 1 when the pipe between here and the linode DC I was slaving to it is so horrid due to cheap pipes on my end that there's like zero point in using it as a synchronization source anyway
07:13<G>lakridserne: DIX is the internet exchange in Dunedin, NZ
07:13<G>(also apparently a Danish one)
07:14<Peng>G: can't tell if you're joking
07:15<G>(oh looks like they got rid of DIX, there used to be a joke, cos the other South Island IX was in Christchurch and called CHIX
07:16<G>NZ has APE, HIX, PNIX, WIX and CHIX currently (and I'm certain there was DIX)
07:16<James>what does AU have?
07:16<G>no longer listed on
07:16<Peng>maybe there's an "AUX"
07:16<James>G: your nick is too short for my autocomplete
07:18<G>Peng: by the looks at it, the main group that run IX's in Aussie are AUIX
07:18<Peng>no fun
07:18<G>James: I'm sorry ;)
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07:20<G>oh wait, it looks like the Dunedin one was actually DPE (maybe because DIX is already Danish Internet Exchange) - at least according to but there was a 'SIX' under construction (guessing abandoned at some point) on that page
07:24<James>no wonder google + aws + rackspace are in eqx sydney
07:25<G>I'll tell you one thing, If I was setting something up in Canada, I'd want it connected to QIX (cos you'd hope it'd be quick #badpun)
07:27<James>wonder how much google had to pay to get level3 ip space...
07:27<James>notably for and
07:33<hawk>*shrug*, technically it's just two /24 PI networks, right? I suppose they each contain a good "vanity" IP address, though.
07:36<HoopyCat>they are announced as /24s from AS15169, indeed
07:46<dwfreed>James: they probably already had it
07:46<James>dwfreed: ah
07:46<James>it's two small blocks
07:46<lakridserne>Well, I'm sorry about all my questions, just trying to gain a deeper understanding of how it all works
07:47<Peng>You haven't asked anything recently. :P
07:47<lakridserne>I was eating lunch
07:47<lakridserne>Just came back and read the answers
07:47<James>G: i'm amazed how much of a difference it makes as to which LNS my PPPoE session terminates at is
07:49<dwfreed>TIL Level3 runs 6 resolvers
07:50<Peng>and sometimes they do NXDOMAIN advertising
07:50<James>dwfreed: public?
07:50<dwfreed>James: yes
07:50<dwfreed>Peng: srsly?
07:50<Peng> through
07:50<Peng>dwfreed: There have been reports, yeah
07:51<James>google dns doesn't mangle NXDOMAIN's
07:51<dwfreed>fortunately, I run my own resolvers anyway
07:51<James>dwfreed: i use unbound on my router
07:51<James>it just forwards onto googledns though
07:51<dwfreed>I just use BIND, since I can do authoritative on that, too
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07:51<James>is bind a bit heavy to run on a lolmips box with 128MB ram?
07:52<HoopyCat>i suspect there might have been an element of "you want a /24 to run a public resolver? with easier-to-remember IPs and a better operational plan than HERE, PLEASE, HAVE TWO" in the response from level3 to google
07:53<hawk>James: It would probably work as well but if you already run unbound I don't really see the point of switching.
07:53<Peng>HoopyCat: hahaha
07:53<James>hawk: yeah, i'm doing that because dnsmasq sucks
07:53<James>hawk: but bind could handle my .lan domain too...
07:53<James>i don't know
07:54*Peng disables DNSMasq, watches /etc/resolv.conf and nginx's config immediately update. resolvconf is so cool!
07:54<dwfreed>Peng: except when it eats your config
07:55<James>Peng: resolvconf has killed dns on so many of my systems
07:55<HoopyCat>a dingo ate my config
07:55<hawk>James: You can stick local zones into unbound as well, but I suppose if you need to do dynamic updates or something like that it may not be up to it. Not quite sure how capable it is in that regard.
07:55<James>hawk: it's strictly a recursive resolver iirc
07:55<James>currently it's forwarding to dnsmasq
07:55<hawk>James: view-source: see local-zone
07:56<James>(which AMAZINGLY stopped sending the dhcp option advertising the resolvers...)
07:57<hawk>oops (damn you google!)
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07:57<James>dnsmasq doesn't like you changing its port away from 53
07:58<hawk>James: If you are going to keep both unbound and dnsmasq I think the more sane option would be to have dnsmasq forward to unbound rather than the other way around.
07:58<James>hawk: dnsmasq molest dnssec data
07:59<Peng>Wait, why would you make Unbound forward to DNSMasq?
07:59<hawk>James: Even more important to let unbound be the one to do the actual work, then
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08:00<James>dnsmasq should be able to be set to a validating resolver and just pass on the ad flag, but no... it molests it
08:03<Peng>Oh, delightful, mtr doesn't work right without DNSMasq since my other resolvers are all IPv6.
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08:03<James>Peng: you're on an ancient mtr
08:05<Peng>Never mind, not just mtr.
08:05<Peng>host works, but ping and rsync/ssh don't.
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08:06<hawk>Okay... so things that use the system resolver library do not work?
08:07<lakridserne>Apparently when I do a traceroute to my Linode in London, there are 17 hops. If I do a traceroute to a LeaseWeb server (LeaseWeb is connected directly to the DIX), there are 18 hops
08:07<Peng>More specifically, the search list isn't used properly.
08:07<James>Peng: <-- awesome version of mtr which i am currently running
08:07<Peng>lakridserne: Number of hops doesn't matter so much.
08:07<Peng>James: I'm running Ubuntu Trusty Tahr's 0.85-2.
08:08<lakridserne>Peng: My Linode is also slightly faster if I ping it
08:08<James>Peng: does it include the timeout and ipv6 patches?
08:08<hawk>lakridserne: Where is said leaseweb server located?
08:08<Peng>James: DNS mostly worked, so probably. As I said, other software's affected, and it's a search list issue, not mtr's more serious issues.
08:09<James>hawk: in his underpants
08:09<James>Peng: sounds like ubuntu's well effed up
08:09<hawk>James: more like in urmoms underpants
08:09<James>hawk: heh
08:09<linbot>James: Yo mommas so unpleasant she makes mwalling look like Miss Congeniality. (822:47/22) [ormum]
08:14<lakridserne>hawk: I don't know exactly what DC
08:14<lakridserne>hawk: But in the Netherlands
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08:19<Peng>So I have "search" in /etc/resolv.conf. If I have DNSMasq enabled and, say, "ping6 c", it queries (NXDOMAIN) and then (which resolves).
08:20<Peng>If I disable DNSMasq, it queries "" and then just "c." which obviously also doesn't work.
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08:25<Peng>If I switch to Linode's IPv4 nameservers, if it works. If I use DNSMasq's ::1, it skips *both* search domains!
08:26<dwfreed>it hates you
08:27<Peng>I hate it more.
08:28<lakridserne>woohoo over the past 24 hours, I've used 7,54 MB transfer on IPv6
08:28<lakridserne>on one of the servers
08:28<hawk>lakridserne: Okay, so while leaseweb has a "local" presence the server is not "local" anyway. And for these two decidedly non-local servers you happen to have slightly better connectivity to one of them.
08:28<James>Peng: ... wait why are you using dnsmasq on a server
08:28<lakridserne>hawk: Ah okay
08:28<James>dnsmasq sucks and mangles dnssec
08:29<Peng>James: I was using it 'cause caching.
08:29<Peng>I *think* DNSMasq can do DNSSEC right, but I'm not certain.
08:29<James>Peng: use unbound.
08:29<James>Peng: it can't.
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08:30<James>it doesn't do any form of validating, and even goes to the extent of mangling the replies
08:31<dwfreed>Peng: works fine for me
08:31<rnowak>if only software could evolve into new versions with added features
08:32*Peng cries
08:33<dwfreed>Peng: after changing nameserver to ::1, and adding your search path, 'ping6 c' starts ping cheezum
08:33<dwfreed>s/ping c/pinging c/
08:34<Peng>Thanks for checking
08:36<James>apparently linode runs unbound for the recursive caching resolvers :/
08:36<James>its good!
08:36<dwfreed>then why the :/
08:37*dwfreed stabs HoopyCat
08:37<James>HoopyCat: windows doesn't seem to care what way the slashes go!
08:37<Peng>THat's quite a unibrow, HoopyCat.
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08:43<Guest5611>hi..noob question. if linode provides 8 cores and my linode has load averages hovering between 1.00 to that something to be concerned about?
08:43<James>that's ~1 - ~2 cores
08:43<Guest5611>great! thanks..
08:44<Guest5611>another question re: backup service. are the backup done using differential after any initial full backup has been done before?
08:45<Guest5611>or is always a full backup?
08:45<lakridserne>Guest5611: It's always a full backup AFAIK'
08:46<Guest5611>i see. thanks again.
08:48<Peng>The backup's internal storage mechanism isn't really relevant to you as a user.
08:48<Peng>I don't understand why you're asking, or what you think you'll get.
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09:06<James>why the hell does osx leave junk everywhere
09:06<James>you can tell when someone uses a mac, their zip files are full of cruft
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09:16<@akerl>I'd say I make zip files without cruft, but I don't make zip files
09:16<@akerl>bro do you even Asepsis
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09:30<dwfreed>akerl: asepsis doesn't get everything :P
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09:31<@akerl>dwfreed: I've never noticed, because my .gitignores don't specify any Mac meta files and yet my repos don't end up with them
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09:33<dwfreed>there are others that usually only end up in zip files and tarballs, but I don't remember what they are off the top of my head
09:33<Peng>.DS_Store isn't it?
09:33<dwfreed>.DS_Store is one
09:33<dwfreed>and that's the one Asepsis gets
09:33<Peng>What's "Asepsis"?
09:34<dwfreed>handy tool for OS X which hides all the .DS_Store files in a directory away from everything else
09:34<dwfreed>it hooks into a kind-of-public API on OS X to redirect .DS_Store reads and writes
09:36<James>__MACOSX is annoying, too
09:37<@akerl>They make great software all around: TotalSpaces is <3, likewise for TotalFinder
09:38<@akerl>Having just run ❯ find ~/ --name '*__MACOS*', there was only a single match and it was in ~/Library
09:38<James>akerl: it usually puts them in zip files and tarballs...
09:39<@akerl>what are you using to make tarballs?
09:39<James>seen people with __MACOSX in their .gitignores too
09:39<James>akerl: the people were probably using some dodgy osx tool
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09:39<James>this is random stuff downloaded from the net
09:39<@akerl>Problem: identified
09:40<@akerl>FWIW, when I did use zip files, YemuZip was pretty snazzy
09:40<James>akerl: ah, not the osx tools :)
09:41<rnowak>I don't know about you, but if there's shit in a directory that I am packaging up, I'd expect the packaging tool to not make decisions on my behalf of what should go in and what shouldn't
09:42<@akerl>rnowak: I believe it's creating the __MACOSX files specifically to put additional meta in the archive. Not 100% sure though
09:42<@akerl>Given that the only place one exists on my filesystem is inside one of the extensions Chrome downloaded and stashed in __MACOSX
09:43<@akerl>On that thread though, if I use Finder's baked in "Compress junk" option, I'm not terribly shocked that it puts in meta designed for adding value when decompressing on Macs. The reason I hate the DS_Store files is because they're everywhere, and they muck with command line tools and non-appley-things
09:48<hawk>Exactly, the __MACOSX thing seems to be added to zip files specifically to hold metadata that cannto be represented in the archive format itself. Which may be useful or crazy depending on how the zip file is going to be used.
09:48*akerl nods
09:48<@Perihelion>The trick is to not make archives
09:49*James archives Perihelion
09:49<@akerl>Shockingly, as I was talking here I was ranting on HN about how archives are basically the sad, broken cousin of git repos
09:49<@Perihelion>git is exactly the reason I never have to do it
09:50<@Perihelion>Even log rotate compresses crap for me so I don't have to think about it. P great.
09:51<@akerl>A fact which GitHub makes even more awesome since they support "releases", so your repo can more or less seamlessly support the portion of people who still do want/need an archive
09:52<@jchen>mmmm git tags
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10:13<dwfreed>akerl: except they don't support arbitrary downloads, so you'll sadface whenever you have to install all of autotools just to compile a little project, because they don't want to keep the generated configure script in the repo
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12:14<linbot>New news from forum: NodeJS as a HTTP Service in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
12:20<linbot>New news from forum: NodeJS as a HTTP Service in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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12:30<mgeduld_>Hi. Anyone feel like wasting part of their Sunday, helping a newbie with a ubuntu port problem?
12:30<lakridserne>!to migeduld_ ask
12:31<linbot>migeduld_: If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
12:31<Nightmare>If you ask- yeah, that
12:32<mgeduld_>Thanks. I am trying to point my browser to a node.js process that is listening to port 3000
12:32<mgeduld_>But getting "Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to [my ip]:3000"
12:32<@akerl>Pastebin `iptables-save` somewhere?
12:32<mgeduld_>I will
12:33<mgeduld_>I have /etc/iptables.firewall.rules set up
12:33<Peng>is node.js listening on
12:33<@akerl>Peng: looks like it
12:33<@akerl>But I also expect iptables-save not to match the file on disk
12:33<mgeduld_>No. Not overtly. It is set to "app.listen(3000)
12:34<mgeduld_>Should it be app.listen(3000,"")?
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12:35<mgeduld_>Yes, that's my iptables file (at that forum link)
12:35<@akerl>Well, "yes, in production, since I'd not recommend exposing Node directly to the internet, but if you want it to listen publically, you cannot tell it to bind to localhost"
12:38<mgeduld_>In production, I should add in ""?
12:38<@akerl>In production, I would suggest running it on localhost ( and using something like nginx that listens publically and passes teh traffic you want to localhost:3000
12:39<mgeduld_>Okay. I will have to research that.
12:39<mgeduld_>In the meantime, is there some way I can just get to [my ip]:3000 from the browser?
12:39<@akerl>Sure, run it without '' like you're doing
12:40<mgeduld_>That's what I am doing, and it doesn't work.
12:40<mgeduld_>"Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to [my ip]:3000"
12:40<@akerl>Which is why I asked for 'iptables-save' output
12:41<mgeduld_>Where would I find that?
12:42<@akerl>You'd run that command via SSH, and put the output on a pastebin
12:42<mgeduld_>I can output /etc/iptables.firewall.rules
12:42<@akerl>and then give us the link to the paste
12:42<mgeduld_>got iy
12:42<mgeduld_>got it
12:42<Peng>mgeduld_: iptables-save is more trustworthy; a config file doesn't necessarily reflect reality
12:42<Peng>iptables-save does
12:42<mgeduld_>When I type iptables-save in ssh, there's no outpit
12:43<mgeduld_>I just get another prompt
12:43<@akerl>You aren't root
12:43<@akerl>You should be root
12:43<mgeduld_>Ah. ok. Worked with sudo
12:45<@akerl>So your port 3000 line isn't there
12:45<@akerl>Changes to the file don't change your running config
12:45<mgeduld_>I see
12:45<mgeduld_>How to I restart it so that it accepts my changes to the file?
12:45<@akerl>If you want to make them take effect, `/etc/init.d/iptables restart` should do it (I think, it's not something I muck with on Deb/Ubu often)
12:46<mgeduld_>I'll try it.
12:47<mgeduld_>I did a google search, and some other people agree with you about how to restart, but...
12:48<mgeduld_>"sudo: /etc/init.d/iptables: command not found"
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12:48<mgeduld_>I guess I can just do a complete reboot
12:49<Peng>that's far from ideal
12:49<mgeduld_>I'm searching around, trying to find out how to restart iptables.
12:50<@akerl>'service iptables restart' ?
12:51<mgeduld_>Good thought, but "iptables: unrecognized service"
12:51<Peng>What iptables software are you running?
12:53<mgeduld_>Hold on. I'll see if I can find out
12:54<mgeduld_>iptables --version gets me iptables v1.4.12
12:55<Peng>I mean what firewall management software.
12:56<mgeduld_>Nothing I know about
12:56<@akerl>can you run `ls -la /etc/init.d/` and pastebin the results?
12:57<Peng>Ubuntu doesn't have any firewall stuff installed by default, akerl. As of 12.04 anyway.
12:57<@akerl>Peng: the fact that his firewall ended up with rules in it makes it seem like it got there somehow :P
12:57<Peng>mm, good point
12:57<@akerl>mgeduld_: Did you manually load those rules in?
12:58<@akerl>If so, Peng's point is super valid
12:58<mgeduld_>I used the instructions here to get my linode/ubuntu running:
12:58<mgeduld_>if you search for iptables you'll see exactly what I did
12:58<mgeduld_>Except for adding port 3000, later
12:58<@akerl>so... do the thing you did there to load the rules
12:59<mgeduld_>Hah! Good catch!
12:59<mgeduld_>.... AND IT WORDS!
13:00<mgeduld_>I guess that was a classic case of RTFM
13:00<mgeduld_>Thanks so much for all your help
13:01<mgeduld_>I'm a client-side developer, and I signed up with linode to learn about server processes. So this has been lesson one for me. I appreciate it.
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13:32<staticsafe>looks like someone forgot the AAAA record for :)
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13:35<Nivex>gack! not good. You want to file the ticket or shall I?
13:37<staticsafe>Nivex: you go ahead
13:37<Peng>to the tweetmobile!
13:38<Nivex>nah, I give orgs a chance to fix things right before I break out the Tweets of Shame
13:38<Nivex>but when I do...
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13:45<Nivex>ticket in and headed up the chain
13:45<Nivex>off to do some yard work before it rains :/
13:45<@akerl>We did some A/B testing, and it looked like users had a harder time understanding the guides via IPv6
13:46<imMute>wait, what?
13:46<imMute>akerl: like their IPv6 wasn't working very well, so they couldn't access the library?
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13:46<Peng>oww, my defenses were down
13:46<Peng>that hurt, akerl
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13:47<@Perihelion>+1 to whoever found the BOAT
13:47<Nivex>akerl: leave the IPv6 bashing to Perihelion. She's got more experience. ;)
13:49<@Perihelion>Actually GLaDOSDan is the resident IPv6 basher
13:50<imMute>why would anyone bash IPv6?!
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14:02<buhman>akerl: lulz
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14:31<linbot>New news from forum: Guaranted Service Without Problem in General Discussion <>
14:36<linbot>New news from forum: Guaranteed Service Without Problems in General Discussion <>
14:44<Nivex>kjotte@daedalus:~$ dig +short AAAA
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14:52<buhman>Nivex: if you could work your magic on github, that would be A+
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14:52<Nivex>I've tried.
14:52<Nivex>They just say "no timeline".
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14:58<dzho>this is for what, IPv6 support?
14:59*dzho is reminded that he has been assigned, but has yet to configure, an IPv6 address for a non-linode vm
15:04<staticsafe>no time like the present
15:08<dzho>yeah, working on it now, came back to make a comment about the process to someone else
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15:09<dzho># cd /etc
15:09<dzho># git status
15:09<dzho>bash: git: command not found
15:13<praetorian>alias git=rm
15:13<praetorian>git commit *
15:13<praetorian>(don't try this at home, these people are trained professionals)
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15:22<dzho>praetorian: that didn't work out so well for me. should I open a ticket?
15:22<praetorian>youll kill a man that way! ;)
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17:32<Jaimil>Hello everyone. I am stuck with a issue if someone can kindly help me out. I have set up a cPanel VPS on Linode 1024. I also have nameservers NS1 and NS2 up and running on same IP, without any issues. Now, I created an account on cPanel. I changed my nameservers of domain (hosted at GoDaddy) to NS1 and NS2 appropriately, but they don't get accepted. GoDaddy instead throws an error, but NS1 - NS5 from Linode works great!
17:33<@akerl>Jaimil: What does the error say?
17:34<Jaimil>The error says "Error: Data management policy violation; 8008"
17:35<@akerl>You'd need to talk to GoDaddy support to figure out exactly what that means, but I suspect it's code for "You cannot give us multiple nameservers that are really the same IP"
17:36<@akerl>The whole point of having multiple nameservers is for redundancy, if you just have multiple hostnames that are controlled by the same server, you're defeating that point
17:37<Jaimil>Yes, @akerl, you are right. I read on some forums too - they say you cannot have same IP for multiple nameservers.
17:37<Jaimil>But then, how do I use private nameservers on such circumstances?
17:37<imMute>which is stupid. what if I really only have one nameserver.
17:38<Jaimil>Exactly, you NEED to enter atleast 2 nameservers on all Domain Registrars
17:38<Jaimil>Now, Linode won't supply me additional IP - they say it's not justifiable...
17:39<Jaimil>I am currently as HostGator and they have no problem...
17:39<lakridserne>Now I realize I come late into this (I was fiddling with some other things), but why don't you just use the Linode Nameservers?
17:39<Jaimil>The problem is it does not look professional - I have Shared Hosting clients - I would like to provide my own nameservers...
17:40<@akerl>Jaimil: You either need to run multiple servers to have your own multiple servers, use our nameservers, slave our nameservers off yours, or use a worse registrar than godaddy
17:40<@akerl>We don't give out multiple IPs so you can pretend to have redundancy
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17:41<lakridserne>Jamil: I run some cPanel hosting for a company I own. We rent 3 different VPS's for the purpose of having name servers
17:42<@akerl>imMute: If you really only have one nameserver, "use your provider's nameservers"
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17:42<Jaimil>@akerl, What do you mean by slaving our nameservers off yours?
17:43<Jaimil>@lakridserne, I see...
17:43<@akerl>I mean "run your own master nameserver, make a slave zone in the Linode DNS Manager, and tell your clients to use"
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17:44<Jaimil>@akerl - Ah, gotcha. That's what I am doing now... Ok, so let's say if I setup another Linode, how would I go about doing it?
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17:45<lakridserne>Jaimil: Are you using cPanel? I ask because you mentioned HostGator
17:45<Jaimil>Yes, I am.
17:45<lakridserne>Jaimil: Then you can use cPanel DNS Only
17:46<Jaimil>On the second Linode?
17:46<lakridserne>Preferably place it in another DC than the main server
17:48<Jaimil>Oh, nice. Thank you! So, basically I create new Linode, set it up exactly as previous Linode, except install cPanel DNS Only. Next, on cPanel (on first Linode), I change the IP address for NS2 to new one? Or how would this exactly work? I'd really appreciate any guidance...
17:48-!-technoid_zzz is now known as technoid_
17:49<lakridserne>Jaimil: You'd want to set it up in a DNS cluster, so that any changes on the main server automatically replicate to ns2
17:49<Jaimil>Is there any guide for this on Linode Library?
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17:50<lakridserne>However cPanel has some documentation
17:52<Jaimil>Ok, thanks. And, if I am not mistaken, I can create cPanel accounts on second Linode as well right, using cPanel from first Linode?
17:52<lakridserne>You can't
17:53<Jaimil>So I have to install brand new cPanel?
17:53<lakridserne>If you need to create cPanel accounts as well, you may want to purchase an additional cPanel license and install cPanel
17:58<lakridserne>shell script to create mysql dump and rsync it to main server hourly finished. Backups on db server disabled. Now to create a shell script to automatically clean the db backups once sufficient time has passed.
17:59<lakridserne>Oh and is there a good way to connect to some place like Amazon S3?
17:59<@akerl>Usually I'd recommend using the internet
17:59<lakridserne>akerl: haha - I mean - do I have to code it all for their API?
18:00<jed>are you looking for a client?
18:00<lakridserne>preferably something I can make a shell script that can upload to it
18:01<@akerl>tarsnap makes a nice client :P
18:04<lakridserne>akerl: Thanks. Was not what I was looking for exactly, but it sure does look nice - I might add an additional backup :P
18:04<lakridserne>staticsafe: Thanks!
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18:48<Nivex>OT: Is it possible to make btrfs mirror blocks on a single device, or does one have to create separate partitions to use the raid1 mode?
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18:51<VsioZaebis>are there anyone here running srcds on their linode ?
18:53<VsioZaebis>jchen: ping
18:53<VsioZaebis>yeah srcds
18:53<buhman>here I thought that was a plural 'srcd' ;p
18:54<@jchen>VsioZaebis: do you follow the srcds mailing list?
18:54<VsioZaebis>jchen: no, I don't believe so
18:55<@jchen>VsioZaebis: srcds is crap, and for some reason cares about high clock speeds, which is why you may or may not be seeing elevated variance
18:55<@jchen>so people are seeing better performance on crap e3 cpus with high clock speeds
18:55<staticsafe>why do all these game server daemons such so much? :(
18:55<staticsafe>suck even
18:56<VsioZaebis>they don't
18:56<VsioZaebis>please stop
18:56<VsioZaebis>they don't suck
18:56<@jchen>VsioZaebis: that differs from the opinion people who run large srcds servers professionally
18:56<@jchen>not including myself
18:57<VsioZaebis>jchen: basically, i'm noticing major performance differences running srcds when migrating to different linode hosts.
18:58<VsioZaebis>jchen: running one srcds instance makes a difference between various linode hosts
18:58<VsioZaebis>so forget about srcds farms etc... for the time being at least
18:59<VsioZaebis>I have a ticket open with detailed explanation if you care to read it
18:59<@akerl>VsioZaebis: Sounds like what jchen was saying about clock speeds
19:01<VsioZaebis>akerl: about about them?
19:01<VsioZaebis>i mean
19:01<VsioZaebis>what about clock speeds?
19:01<@akerl>"<@jchen> VsioZaebis: srcds is crap, and for some reason cares about high clock speeds, which is why you may or may not be seeing elevated variance"
19:03<staticsafe>which is why you are seeing performance differences
19:03<VsioZaebis>oh please
19:03<@akerl>Not sure what your goal here is
19:04<@akerl>You asked for feedback, we gave feedback, you don't like it
19:04<@jchen>VsioZaebis: i'm trying to help you out here
19:04<VsioZaebis>goal is to make the user experience good
19:05<VsioZaebis>should I renice -20 the pid ?
19:05<VsioZaebis>or what
19:06<VsioZaebis>sorry don't mean to sound like a dick
19:06<@akerl>If the issue is not contention, but poor resource utilization by the server, playing with nice is unlikely to help
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19:12<VsioZaebis>the only thing that helped so far is upgrading linode 1GB to linode 2GB, and stay in Newark NJ.
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19:27<staticsafe>hey jstitt
19:28<chipotle>just bought my first raspberry pi!
19:28<chipotle>gonna install openELEC on it
19:28<staticsafe>mine is lying around because it somehow destroyed the sd card
19:28<@jstitt>Very cool! I like the Beagleboards :-)
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19:29<@jchen>beaglebone black party
19:29<@jstitt>^5 jchen
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19:29<@jchen>got my shiz running archlinux-arm
19:29<@jstitt>I forgive you :P
19:29<@jchen>get out
19:29<staticsafe>yeah my rpi was running alarm as well
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19:34<chipotle>i'm going to set up a pfsense router, vpn and router next week too
19:34<chipotle>i'm excited to learn pfsense
19:36<@jchen>pfsense is dope
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19:44<chipotle>jchen: you use it?
19:45<chipotle>i'm going to build it on this $145 box
19:45<@jchen>damn nice
19:45<@jchen>i used to use it, not anymore
19:45<@jchen>nice, three nics
19:47<buhman>gigabit == cool, rtl == boo
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19:48<staticsafe>hm how are the freebsd realtek drivers?
19:49<buhman>I hope better than the linux drivers ;p
19:49<buhman>chipotle: that's pretty sweet actually
19:49<buhman>you could make a beastly AP with 3 mPCIe
19:50<chipotle>buhman: i have to use my netgear r6300 router as the AP
19:50<chipotle>since pfsense doesn't support ac wifi
19:53<chipotle>new wifi chipset in macs primarily
19:53<chipotle>faster and has beamforming technology
19:53<buhman>right, but I'm moderately surprised it's not supported
19:53<chipotle>yeah, me too
19:54<Peng>I'm moderately surprised when anything *is* supported.
19:54<chipotle>i was hoping to sell my router to recoup some of the money
19:54<James>staticsafe: did you have a decent psu on the rpi? they have no power conditioning...
19:54<buhman>chipotle: that's about as expensive as most high-end 'appliance' routers, so it seems justified.
19:54<staticsafe>James: I used my Nexus 7's power adapter
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19:55<buhman>James: conditioning?
19:55<James>buhman: most of my stuff has proper power regulators
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19:56<buhman>I thought the RPI had at least LDO regs
19:56<buhman>and that relatively large cap adjacent to the microusb to filter noise
19:58<James>it has a narrow voltage range though
19:59<buhman>right, which depends on standards compliant USB voltages
19:59<buhman>what's the problem then?
19:59<James>it draws ~1A though
19:59*akerl hooks up a car battery to the channel
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20:00<buhman>erm, unless I'm insane, it's designed to be run off usb 2.0's >=500mA
20:00*James hooks up a bank of truck batteries to the channel
20:00<dwfreed>buhman: it takes easily 700mA
20:00<dwfreed>most stuff won't provide more than 500mA
20:00<buhman>I thought that was the reason its own host controller doesn't do >125mA
20:01<buhman>dwfreed: with nothing attached, *surely* it does <500mA
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20:01<dwfreed>it /might/
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21:01<HoopyCat>for those interested in terrible guestimations, a pack of 4 NiMH AA in series (~2000 mAh each) runs a raspberry pi with wifi adapter and a 2x16 backlit LCD for 8 hours
21:03<HoopyCat>i'd therefore guestimate my pi's draw at ~250 mA
21:05<encode>i'm a big fan of terrible guestimations
21:06<HoopyCat>it turns out that my lab is set up to measure this sort of shit with great precision, but i've never thought to do so
21:08<HoopyCat>somewhat pornographic:
21:13<James>HoopyCat: should have tagged it [NSFW]
21:13<James>Base Price AUD 8,004
21:13<encode>HoopyCat: ooh shiny. For some reason i thought you wrote "home lab", and I was going to comment on that being overkill for a home lab
21:13<encode>but then i realised you just wrote "lab"
21:14<encode>last time I got to play with such fancy tools was at uni... I miss that
21:14<James>encode: how dare you suggest that is overkill for a home lab
21:15<encode>$8k is pretty expensive for home use
21:15<James>HoopyCat: i was going to go all ragey about no auto-MDIX then i realised..
21:15<James>all modern nics/switches you'd plug it into have autoMDIX!
21:16<@jchen>aud 8k, what's that like $3 usd
21:16<@jchen>jk but seriously how bout that electronics markup tho
21:16<James>it sucks
21:17<James>too often its cheaper to import!
21:17<James>(that's including paying import duty + shipping)
21:17<James>which is SAD
21:17<@jchen>what's the reasoning behind the markup?
21:17<James>don't know
21:17<@akerl>SAD is "Special Aussie Dollars", right?
21:17<James>the govt abandoned an inquest into ti
21:17<James>jchen: can't blame tax
21:17<@jchen>in taiwan there's a markup for electronics that were MADE in taiwan to begin with, but htat's because shit was shipped to the US first then imported back to taiwan
21:18<James>can't really blame the shipping either
21:18<James>importers probably want to make super profits
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21:20<encode>throne of games
21:20<James>jchen: wait is it just on in the US?
21:20<James>what's the ealiest?
21:21<James>i should be able to watch it in a few hours then
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21:24<HoopyCat>encode: naw, work lab. coolest thing i have in my home lab is an agilent E4406A...
21:34<buhman>game of thrones
21:34<buhman>/topic game of thrones
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21:34<Peng>game of nodes?
21:36<James>buhman: i thought you were a stealth op
21:37<buhman>If I were stealth, I wouldn't make this obvious ;p
21:37<James>HoopyCat: only up to 4GHz?
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21:42<HoopyCat>James: the 4406? yeah, it's for running automated regression tests on something that only does 300 to 3000 MHz :-)
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21:49<linbot>New news from forum: Guaranteed Service Without Problems in General Discussion <>
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22:06<linbot>New news from forum: Guaranteed Service Without Problems in General Discussion <>
22:18<James>HoopyCat: aah
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 07 00:00:08 2014