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#linode IRC Logs for 2014-05-07

---Logopened Wed May 07 00:00:00 2014
---Logclosed Wed May 07 08:28:47 2014
---Logopened Wed May 07 08:28:52 2014
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08:28-!-Irssi: #linode: Total of 480 nicks [27 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 453 normal]
08:28-!-mode/#linode [+o mikegrb] by ChanServ
08:29<@mikegrb>mmm cake
08:29<@mikegrb>mmm cake
08:29<James>the cake trigger is back!
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08:29<James>but what about slackware
08:30<Peng>I bought the domain as a Slackware Linode joke (it just redirects to Linode), but I'm planning to let it expire in a month. :(
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08:31<Peng>just... speaking of Slackware...
08:31<Tender>ok great thanks you think is possible to implement something like: a script that bk certain folders (this one I have and it works) and send the zip to a certain this way I can have a double bk secure
08:31<Peng>(btw the domain ran on Ubuntu ;)
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08:31<@akerl>Burger King is pretty great
08:31<Peng>Tender: Yes, but I don't know what "bk" means.
08:32<@akerl>But you can totally write a script to do whatever with your Linode's data
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08:33<robh>bk = backup i think
08:33<Tender>joomla folders and joomdb...actually my script send to an ftp account..and is great...but I'm thinking if is safe..bacause in the connection i send also user and pass of ftp someone can also connect to the destination ftp and clear all...
08:33<Tender>if I'm not wrong ftp protocol is plain...
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08:34*lakridserne writes a script to backup akerl
08:34<@akerl>Tender: Which is why you shouldn't use FTP
08:34<@qmr>very possible your email has the same problem
08:35<@akerl>qmr: Not quite the same problem: sending an email to yourself doesn't compromise your email account's credentials, just potentially the data inside the email
08:35<Tender>bacause in the script i send out also user and pass of ftp account...yes you are right...but if I send to an one
08:35<Tender>right akerl
08:36<@akerl>Tender: Sending backups as emails is its own can of worms
08:36<@qmr>Right, I am saying it is not secure
08:36<@akerl>there are actual tools to take actual backups. Why not use one rather than rolling your own?
08:37<Tender>ok and where this actual tools store and how the send data?
08:37<Tender>yes OI would prefer to use a combo one but I love to learn....
08:37<@qmr>search the web?
08:40<Tender>I'm not shy to search on the web but as you know is quite complicated and sometimes....under tech spec someone miss the actual goal of some I'm talking about the logic
08:40<Peng>You could easily write your own. Replace FTP with SFTP.
08:40<Tender>and logic side...send ftp credential and send an email are very far far to be the same thing in therm of many things
08:41<Tender>peng: you are right..sftp is a good starting point
08:42<Peng>I agree with akerl, using another tool is a good idea.
08:42<Peng>But... you could just change your current thing to use SFTP instead.
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08:43<Tender>so i think bk smalls files a basic joomla + a normal db is around 10-20mb
08:43<Tender>this is the reason why I'm considering old fashion tecnique like send a basic do you think this is possible and safe...I mean in addition to the sftp
08:44<@akerl>You cannot do sftp as part of email...
08:44<@akerl>We have the Linode Backup Service. Beyond that there's tarsnap, and backblaze, and however many other backup services show up on google
08:44<robh>you could install dropbox or similar on your linode and send your backups there
08:45<pronto> <-- is the best one by far
08:46<Tender>considering the worst x someone enter my vps clean all and clean also ftp where are sent bk...they also try to corrupt the bk sent by email..ok but on my email the last x-1 day is sotred safe and clean a recent bk...
08:46<pronto>burger king?
08:46<robh>pronto, that looks awesome
08:47<Tender>akerl: I know is not possible to mix sftp and email...I wrote "in addition"
08:48<Tender>so no one like the idea?
08:48<Tender>come on don't be shy!
08:48<@akerl>Tender: Just use an actual backup service
08:48<@akerl>Ours, tarsnaps, anybody's
08:49<Peng>Just use two actual backup services*
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08:51<Tender>ok I will integrate in my script the email sending part...and let you know
08:51<Tender>if there is someone curious :)
08:53<Tender>i guess break a gmail account is not so simple like read ftp credentials...
08:53<Tender>by the way thanks guys for your help
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09:18<kafka>whats up at linode these days
09:19<kafka>lots of joins and quits
09:19<kafka>not much chattin
09:19<kafka>this should change
09:19<kafka>you shh
09:19<lakridserne>We're playing silent game
09:19<kafka>WELL I RUINED IT
09:19<kafka>whats up AlexC_
09:19<kafka>and lakridserne
09:19<AlexC_>Oh, just typing and stuff
09:20<lakridserne>Not much, just playing with cPanel 11.43
09:20<lakridserne>Is in edge
09:20<lakridserne>dev version
09:20<lakridserne>After that it'll go to 11.44
09:21<AlexC_>Then 11.45, amirite?
09:21<Peng>no, they skip multiples of 15 due to a superstition
09:21<lakridserne>Yeah, but typically, 11.43 and 11.45 will not reach any release tiers except for EDGE
09:21<lakridserne>Because uneven numbers are dev releases
09:22<AlexC_>So, after that I'm guess it'll be 11.46?
09:22<lakridserne>It will be.
09:22<AlexC_>I'm good at this
09:23<lakridserne>Generally on stable servers it'll go 11.42->11.44->11.46
09:23<lakridserne>and so on
09:23*AlexC_ stops trolling
09:27<lakridserne>Linode is fast
09:28<Peng>AlexC_: everyone on sesame street is proud of your mathematical growth
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09:39<AlexC_>Peng: Even Count himself?
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10:47<linbot>New news from forum: Old hardware sell-off? in /dev/random <>
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11:21<linbot>New news from forum: Dealing with linode data centre being down - going multi DC in General Discussion <>
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12:32<davidweb_>how can I become incredibly knowledgeable about EVERYTHING within the next 2 days? Someone just install the SATA port in my head already, please.
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12:33<dwfreed>you don't need to be knowledgeable about everything
12:33<dwfreed>in most cases you can get away with knowing very little
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12:34<dwfreed>what matters is learning from your experiences, asking questions of those that do know, and thinking with an open mind
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12:35<dwfreed>and you can learn a lot by setting up test/dev environment, and playing with all sorts of cool tech
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12:35<dzho>and being willing to do some independent study so you're not asking about everything
12:35<davidweb_>dwfreed: I know, I just get so frustrated when it seems like knew things are popping up every day, and I feel like learning everything I'm learning is never enough.
12:35<davidweb_>Perhaps I need to start outsourcing (read: paying) some work to someone else.
12:36<dzho>davidweb_: that's a valid approach, yes.
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12:41<jdash>So is there any chance that the linode kernel will support memory limiting for cgroups (specifically for docker usage) at some point?
12:41<dwfreed>which kernel are you running?
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12:42<jdash>The latest, I know I could use pv-grub but I have no other reason to use it...seems to be a pain for just that purpose.
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12:43<dwfreed>jdash: I meant which version? 3.14.1, or something else?
12:44<jdash>ah, sorry yeah, latest 64bit. looks like 3.14.1
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12:51<jdash>You currently get this error with docker using the latest 64bit linode kernel: WARNING: Your kernel does not support memory limit capabilities.
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14:05<gbit>Hello, what happen with I'm looking for some cool pictures from the Atlanta DC, can anyone give the url please?
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14:07<Peng>it was
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14:08<Peng>That site doesn't work anymore, maybe you could try
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14:11<gbit>Atlanta NAP does not have a website anymore?
14:12<linbot>New news from forum: Bring back the wiki in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
14:18<Craighton>texas having some issues?
14:18<gbit>linbot: nice
14:18<Peng>GNAX has a new web design, too, I think.
14:18<Peng>now it only looks 4 years old ;)
14:18<rnowak>more like 10
14:18<Peng>Maybe 8? If it was 10, then it was definitely cutting-edge back then.
14:18<rnowak>it is towards that end of the last decade in any case
14:18<dwfreed>akerl: HAI
14:18<dwfreed>Craighton: yes, just noticed that myself
14:18<dwfreed>high latency over v6
14:18<Craighton>There we go I think it's picking back up
14:18<Peng>also packet loss
14:18<rnowak>oftc probably noticed too, at least a server was a bit bumpy... I don't know if that server is in dallas :P
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14:18<Craighton>yeah oftc just lagged hard core right there
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14:18<Peng>IPv4 too
14:18<mallorn>Probably the millionth person to ask, but are there network issues in Dallas right now?
14:18<@qmr>mtr reports?
14:18<Peng>all better
14:18<Peng>mallorn: not anymore!
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14:19<harty83>is linode having any reported issues? My servers and even linode's manager and website
14:19<Peng>harty83: not anymore
14:19<Peng>qmr: I don't have one. But 100 ms RTT and 50-75% packet loss appeared on the last softlayer hop before Linode.
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14:19<dwfreed>harty83: they were for a brief moment, but it's better now
14:19<mallorn>Yup, better now. We were getting 33-100% packet loss for about five minutes. I mistakenly went to's #linode channel instead of here. :D
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14:19<acanis>Hi, trying to migrate my linode from an old plan 512 to the new 2GB plan
14:19<acanis>I see the message "migration failed"
14:19<dwfreed>acanis: open a ticket
14:19<harty83>k; looks like it jsut got a lot better; thanks!
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14:20<Peng>arlen: in the manager
14:21<dwfreed>acanis: ^
14:21<dwfreed>Peng: tabfail :P
14:21<Peng>sorry arlen, tab fail
14:21<Craighton>wow from 512 to 2g
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14:21<Craighton>you've missed out on so much
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14:35<Simpson>do all new instances get loaded with SSD drives now?
14:36<@caker>and 40Gb network, and faster processors, and 2x RAM
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14:40<Simpson>wow well done, i'm going to move my newer digital ocean instances over
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14:47<Simpson>any chance you are working on a new UI for the control panel?
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14:50<dozn>any chance we could get a few more MB of ram? Having 1993 staring me in the face is making me feel too nostalgic
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14:59<atula>what do you guys think about having pubkey in a git repository ? kosher ?
14:59<@akerl>It's a pubkey; you can take out billboard space with it if you'd like :P
15:01<atula>I thougt so, but seomthing about it make me feel uneasy
15:01<@akerl>Random: all github users' pubkey are public
15:01<atula>if my deploy script were to copy that list into authorized_keys… what if someone insert their key in there?
15:01<dozn>Probably the word "key" which usually insinuates something private
15:01<dozn>but that's removed with the word "public" just before it =)
15:01<jed>such small keys
15:02<@akerl>atula: If somebody inserts their key, yes, that's a problem. But if they can insert malicious things into the repo, they could just have it grab their key from elsewheere
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15:02<atula>omg. I have too many keys!
15:02<jed>what are those, 8192?
15:03<@akerl>THat said, I've been transitioning to the ecdsa keys, which are tiny
15:03<jed>yeah, they're way better
15:03<@akerl>ed25519 is live on openssh now
15:03<@akerl>But deb/ubu don't support it yet
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15:03<@akerl>deb8 will, and 14.04 does
15:03<dwfreed>they at least support ecdsa, which is more than I can say for some providers
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15:10<@akerl>Is there anybody around who actually uses ed25519 in practice, out of curiosity?
15:10<dwfreed>why do you ask? I will be once I get this system up and running
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15:13<dwfreed>oh, there's my 16384 bit key
15:13<dwfreed>I was wondering where I left that
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15:14<dwfreed>now I just have to wait for tar to extract it; shoulda used pixz
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15:26<dwfreed> and now I have 16,384 bit key :)
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15:28<@akerl>Damn, github supports ecdsa now but not ed25519
15:28<@qmr>what about ed209?
15:29<dwfreed>takes 4 seconds to authenticate to github
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15:44<davidweb_>if I want to set up a subdomain for one of my sites, as long as I add the A record and change the document root, I don't need to do anything else special, right?
15:45<davidweb_>can the files still be in /home/davidwebb/public/, and the subdomain is just
15:46<buhman>github only supports nsa-approved ciphers.
15:46<buhman>and pubkey algorithms
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15:55<dwfreed>tinfoil hat much?
15:56<davidweb_>when linode adds IP's for extra url's, are they bound to those URL's, or can I use them for any URL on my server?
15:56<@akerl>davidweb_: IPs have no connection to URLs
15:56<davidweb_>akerl: thanks.
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16:07<kashi>Hi Everybody
16:07<kashi>Are you providing ipv6 network?
16:07<kashi>On all plans or specific
16:08<lakridserne>all plans
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16:12<davidweb_>if I want my SSL cert for a site to use a different IP than it's currently using, after I change the nginx vhost, do I need to change the A records to reflect the new address?
16:14<davidweb_>dwfreed: thanks.
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16:25<linbot>New news from forum: Upgraded to 14.04 LTS, E-mails down in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
16:32<davidweb_>do I need an ssl cert for a subdomain, or can it use the root domain's SSL?
16:32<dwfreed>only if the root domain is a wildcard
16:32<dwfreed>otherwise you're going to need another cert
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16:43<linbot>New news from forum: Upgraded to 14.04 LTS, E-mails down in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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16:53<madbytes>I am currently on debian 6. Whats the best way to upgrade to current stable version of debian?
16:54<linbot>New news from forum: Upgraded to 14.04 LTS, E-mails down in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
16:55<gparent>I used the official documentation, a long time ago
16:56<gparent>The fun starts around 4.3
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16:56<madbytes>gparent, thanks. let me have a look
16:57<gparent>it's quite a bit of reading, there may be some condensed versions floating around but the debian doc tends to Just Work when it's not ten years out of date
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17:04<madbytes>uhm, its too much to do. I was hoping for a quick solution. ughh. gotta take some time off for the uprgrade.
17:05<gparent>the upgrade itself isn't so bad
17:05<gparent>but it's worth being prepared
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17:08<Karrde>change sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get install apt dpkg, apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade, reboot
17:08<Karrde>and any errors afterwards would have been prevented if you read the upgrade docs
17:08<Karrde>effort level is up to you :)
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17:09<gparent>don't forget to close your eyes when the warning about mtab pops up on reboot
17:09<gparent>it's safe
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17:14<mallorn>Are there network problems at Dallas again? Seeing 50-100% packet loss.
17:14<rideh>Dallas issues on all my servers
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17:14<madbytes>Karrde, gparent - Thanks guys. Almost done reading the notes. will start the upgrade soon ;)
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17:16<brtb>any interesting network issues in dallas? was getting a decent amount of packet loss for a little bit there
17:17<seanh-corona>i noticed it too
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17:18<gparent>sounds like there's something interesting
17:18<rideh>same on 7 hosts
17:19<TecnoBrat>fine now :P
17:19<TecnoBrat>so not interesting :P
17:20<rideh>users are reporting its come / gone a few times today
17:21<linbot>New news from forum: Warning: Time moved backwards by 314 seconds. in General Discussion <>
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17:28<phuh>akerl: yay docker 0.11 is just released and it has advanced networking options :D
17:29<mallorn>Is that the latest thing in wearable computing? Oh wait, you said *docker*, not Dockers.
17:29*Ikaros snickers
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17:30*phuh ^
17:31<samm__>hi all, I've just set up a new linode and have a question about the name-base-virtual-host. I'm using the linode guide here(
17:31<samm__>I've followed it to the t, have created the folder directories, and uploaded my files up
17:31<samm__>however, if i try accessing my linode through its ip address, all I get is the apache2 default screen. Does anyone know what is going on here?
17:32-!-coxn [] has quit [Quit: brb rebutt]
17:32<samm__>or perhaps a clue to help point me in the right direction?
17:32<Scub>its not matching the virtual host and just defaulting to the default page
17:32-!-db3l [~chatzilla@2001:470:1f07:12a:3615:9eff:fe1b:3774] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 29.0/20140421221237]]
17:32<Scub>since no hostname is provided there is nothing for the ServerName directive to hook onto so you get dropped into the highest priority vhost in your configuration; usually this is the default page
17:33<samm__>yea, that makes sense, do you think its because I am using the direct ip to address it while the name based virtual config file is using the domain name
17:34<samm__>well, that makes things a little more confusing. I tried replacing all instances of the domain name in the config file with the ip address and it still doesn't quite work. I'll try again now
17:34<davidwebb>what's the proper location for a subdomain, if I currently have /home/fridaynext/public/, and I want where does the 'sub' folder go?
17:35<@qmr>davidwebb: what is the best text editor / web server / source control program ?
17:35<davidwebb>qmr: textmate / nginx / git?
17:37<davidwebb>I'd say VIM is the best text editor, but I don't know all the keyboard shortcuts yet.
17:37<Scub>samm__: its due to the fact that the default page is likely symlinked with the highest priority (000)
17:38<@qmr>wrong, maybe, and ... half credit for git
17:38<davidwebb>qmr: your votes?
17:38<Scub>samm__: what is the base os?
17:39<Scub> for debian based installs check out /etc/apache2/sites-enabled to see how they are being symlinked over
17:39<@qmr>but anyway, there is not necessarily a correct place. use something that is consistent and makes sense to you. I would say /srv/www/{public_html,logs,foo,bar}
17:39-!-ATL [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:39<@qmr>or /srv/http
17:39<Scub>for rhel /etc/httpd/sites-enabled
17:39<Scub>as qmr suggests as well :3
17:40<davidwebb>well I have it right now at /home/me/public/, and I was figuring i'd just do a redirect to the subdomain from that folder, and point the subdomains vhost document root to that folder. But didn't know if that was un-kosher or not.
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17:41<@qmr>I would do a separate directory wherever your other sites are
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17:45<davidwebb>they're all in /home/user/public/site/public. so are you saying to do /home/user/public/
17:45<davidwebb>qmr: ps - your favorite editor / server / source control?
17:46<@qmr>ed / apache / mercurial
17:46<Peng>hg high five!
17:47-!-samm__ [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
17:47<@qmr>just kidding about ed - vim of course. I have used ed a lot though, heh.
17:49<davidwebb>qmr: are you a vim keyboard shortcut master?
17:50<@qmr>I once printed out a reference sheet with the good intentions to read and understand it
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17:51<@qmr>I just know the stuff in vimtutor and a little about how to use ctags, and maybe a little more
17:51<davidwebb>qmr: lulz
17:51<@qmr> playing with this is on my todo list
17:51<davidwebb>i know how to search and replace and cut out lines. that's about it. and page up and down.
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17:52<davidwebb>qmr: whoooooa, that looks awesome!
17:52<davidwebb>no need for sublime text or any of that mess when you've got this!
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17:54<davidwebb>awww, I only have up to 429 patches.
17:54<davidwebb>now i have to get all hardcore and compile vim from source to get this. Five bucks says I'll break something while doing this.
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17:55<@qmr>I think I have sublime text and whatever the other one is that the kids are using these days. have not tried actually using them
17:56<davidwebb>I'm too cheap to buy sublime text. that's why I have textmate.
17:56<davidwebb>but it has no code completion, so me no likey.
17:56<@qmr>ah that's the other one
17:56<davidwebb>that's the one you failed me with.
17:58<davidwebb>hg clone is taking a while...
17:58<davidwebb>c'mon ssd + 40gbit connection...
17:59<davidwebb>there we go.
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18:02<davidwebb> gaaaahhhh installed latest vim from source, and my solarized colors are gone. knew i'd break something
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18:09<davidwebb>how do I find where vimrc is?
18:09<davidwebb>nm found it. duh.
18:11<jed>there's a few, similar to bashrc
18:11<jed>check vim's documentation for details
18:11<jed>:help vimrc
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18:18<davidwebb>it was erased when i rebuilt from source. just created a new one.
18:18-!-blfr [] has joined #linode
18:18<davidwebb>but now the solarized colorscheme is very weird.
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18:24<davidwebb>alriiiight. got my colorscheme back. time for code completion installation.
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18:43<davidwebb>well thanks qmr. Now I have awesome code completion on my linode!
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19:07<linbot>New news from forum: Sorry to ask this, but lish help? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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19:14<shaiwa>what's the exit code to lish? cannot seem to go back even when closing it / relaunching
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19:19<dwfreed>shaiwa: Ctrl+A d
19:19<dwfreed>shaiwa: it just drops you into a screen session that has your console; that's the sequence to detach from screen
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19:29<shaiwa>I think I need to go hire someone. Thanks all. this is far too confusing for me :)
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20:08<linbot>New news from forum: Howto Forward public IPV6s pool to Docker/LXC VM's? in Linux Networking <>
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21:00<phuh_>Arie :)
21:00<Arie>Anyone experience with building video websites on Linode? Any best practices? :)
21:02<linuxdevman>I just signed up with LiNode and installed a LAMP setup under Debian 7.4 usig a StackScript. I installed aTightvncserver, the needed fonts, and Gnome-desktop. After the install, I can VNC in and everything works great. If I reboot the server I can not start the tightvncserver (tightvncserver :1) anymore I get the error: sh: 1: Syntax error: "(" unexpected. This appears to be the SanityCheck() function call in the perl script. Any ideas.. My
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21:09<linbot>New news from forum: VNC (Tightvncserver) , Gnome Issue after reboot. in General Discussion <>
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21:17<kyhwana>linuxdevman: you need to use perl to run perl scripts not sh
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21:26<MajObviousman>any python-handy folk aboot?
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22:11<HoopyCat>MajObviousman: sure
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22:15<MajObviousman>HoopyCat: does python do any kind of self-referential awareness of methods like ruby does?
22:15<MajObviousman>e.g. dict.methods?
22:16<MajObviousman>so I don't keep having to go to the browser to look up method names
22:16<Peng>dir(something_or_other) ?
22:16<jed>interactively, dir(foo)
22:17<MajObviousman>neat, that's what I was looking for
22:17<Peng>(Good for debugging, will get you shot if used in real code.)
22:17<MajObviousman>how about sorting a dict based upon values?
22:17<jed>a dict has order?
22:17<MajObviousman>just for interactiveness, not in established code
22:17<Peng>jed: no
22:17<Peng>though there are OrderedDicts
22:17<jed>Peng: lemme drive, I was getting there
22:17<jed>MajObviousman: you want ipython. do not pass go.
22:17<MajObviousman>it does not, but I want to return a list of keys ordered by the magnitude of their values
22:18<Peng>take the next left!
22:18<jed>if you're looking at things interactively, you want ipython
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22:19<Peng>there are a couple options. sorted((v, k) for (k, v) in foo.iteritems()) is one
22:19<jed>for sorting a dict, you're walking it regardless and should convert to tuple
22:19<jed>yeah, that
22:19<Peng>or bar = foo.items(); bar.sort(key=lambda x: x[1])
22:19<Peng>or other similar things
22:20<jed>or: sorted(data.items(), key=operator.itemgetter(1)) or something
22:20<MajObviousman>that looks decidedly pleasant and compact
22:20<jed>operator.itemgetter > lambda x: x[1] # for readability
22:21<MajObviousman>thanks for the tips
22:22<jed>if you're heading for a bag usage, there is a baggish type
22:22<jed>look at collections.Counter
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22:28<MajObviousman>does python have an equivalent to yield(n) or passing blocks of code as arguments like in ruby?
22:28<jed>are those the same thing?
22:28<jed>because yield in python has a separate meaning
22:28<jed>spoiler: the answer to your second question is yes, I'm just checking
22:29<MajObviousman>I can declare lambdas, e.g. done so in my filter call here
22:30-!-nazi_zombie_living_on_moon [~nazi_zomb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:32<jed>like this?
22:32<jed>def is a special statement that is equivalent, functionally, to:
22:32<jed>zip = lambda ...
22:33<jed>so after the dedent in closed(), at "return closed", closed is a variable in scope which contains that function
22:33<jed>I could store it in a variable, as I have there, put it as an item in a dict, etc
22:34<jed>you can extrapolate from here to figure out how monkey patching in python works (socket.socket = my_cool_socket)
22:34<jed>since names are just all variables, in the end
22:34<jed>including types
22:34<MajObviousman>thanks jed
22:34<jed>I'm amazed I hit what you were looking for on the first try, np
22:35*MajObviousman will need to do some more reading to fully grok this, but is starting to get a good picture
22:35<MajObviousman>I've read a lot of ruby unfortunately, and I see the do |val| <block of code> syntax passed to methods a lot
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22:35<MajObviousman>it seems like an elegant way to do things, so I was curious if python had an analog
22:35<jed>walk me through how that works
22:35<jed>it closes <block of code> with val?
22:36*jed not a ruby guy
22:36<MajObviousman>anarray = ['a', 'b', 'c']
22:36<jed>do |anarray| <stuff on each iterated value>?
22:37<MajObviousman>wait, backwards
22:37<MajObviousman>anarray.each do |value| <stuff on each iterated value> end
22:37<MajObviousman>something like that
22:37<MajObviousman>is a very simple example
22:37<jed>which runs anarray.each(), as it's walking it yields each value bound to "value", then executes the code block
22:38<MajObviousman>for this simple example, you'd just do a for value in anarray: <stuff on each iterated value>
22:38<MajObviousman>but for more complex examples like I've seen before, hmm hang on
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22:41<jed>I have a feeling I'll be busting out map(), whatever it is
22:41<jed>or filter()
22:41<jed>(which gvr hates)
22:41<MajObviousman>ok, got it gisted
22:41<MajObviousman>mind if I pm the gist to you?
22:42<jed>ah, a DSL, k
22:42<MajObviousman>yeah, they used it to create a DSL on the fly
22:42<MajObviousman>clever way to make ugly syntax more elegant
22:43<MajObviousman>the do block here goes to a yield, and then each of those opt methods just set up things in the opts object
22:43<MajObviousman>please excuse the incestuous naming, it's not my code
22:43<jed>I'm still trying to grok this
22:45<jed>so if I take line 2, and do something like this in invalid python:
22:45<jed>opt(:action, "The action to...", default="start")
22:45<jed>is that valid?
22:45<jed>I'm pulling out the function call there, I think
22:45<MajObviousman>I think so yes
22:46<jed>it's calling opt, arg 1 is an action atom which is the key into opts, arg 2 is a help string, remainder are keyword args in which you're setting default
22:46<jed>or is it pattern matching
22:46<MajObviousman>the colon denotes a symbol in ruby, like a trellis you can hang things on. More than a string, less than a variable
22:47<MajObviousman>you know, I think I'm taking us too far afield
22:47<jed>yeah, I'd build this imperatively
22:47<jed>taking it too clever wouldn't be idiomatic python, probably
22:48<jed>should tell you something that I've been staring at it 5 minutes and I'm still unsure what it does
22:48<jed>(granted, that something could be I'm an idiot)
22:50<MajObviousman>nah, we're way into the deeper parts of language design
22:50<MajObviousman>it's spooky down here
22:51<MajObviousman>so, let's table this line of questioning, and I will go whiteboard yours and Peng's examples from earlier to make sure I grok them
22:52<MajObviousman>thanks for hangin with me here jed
22:52<jed>no sweat homie G
22:52<jed>one love
22:52*MajObviousman may/will probably have other questions in the coming days
22:53*MajObviousman awkward-fistbumps jed and suddenly feels the fullness of how white he is
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22:56<Perihelion>jed makes casper look tan dw
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23:12<MajObviousman>another one for you, is this accuracte (more or less) tuple : list :: set : dict
23:13<MajObviousman>hmm nope nevermind
23:14<@mikegrb>mmm cake
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23:20<Peng>MajObviousman: tuple : list :: frozenset : set is largely true, though.
23:21<Peng>MajObviousman: well, sort of true. (as in "immutable vs. not")
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23:25<MajObviousman>both sets and dicts use the {} syntax right?
23:25<jed>only for comprehensions
23:25<jed>dicts use {}, sets are: foo = set([1, 2, 3])
23:25<jed>or set(iterable)
23:26<MajObviousman>adict = {1, 2, 3} gave me a set, which surprised me
23:26<jed>are you in 3?
23:26<MajObviousman>this is 2.7 apparently
23:26*MajObviousman should go get 3
23:27<jed>that's not legal 2.7
23:27<gparent>not running the latest trunk? jeez
23:27<jed>oh, my ipython is 2.6
23:27<jed>carry on
23:27<jed>I knew {1, 2, 3} is a 3ism, didn't know if they'd brought it back to 2.7
23:29<MajObviousman>is there a syntactical sugar for something like range('a', 'z') ?
23:29<jed>that's it
23:29<jed>although I'm sure you're aware that's not legal
23:29<MajObviousman>yeap, that's why I asked
23:29<MajObviousman>range expects integers
23:30<jed>map(chr, range(ord('a'), ord('z') + 1))
23:30<jed>there might be an itertools toy for it
23:30<jed>there's also string.lowercase
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23:40<linbot>New news from forum: New client, linode is OOMing. in Performance and Tuning <>
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---Logclosed Thu May 08 00:00:03 2014