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#linode IRC Logs for 2014-05-09

---Logopened Fri May 09 00:00:05 2014
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00:25<karstensrage>if i give a user the access 'Can view invoices, make payments, update contact and billing info, and will receive copies of all invoices and payment emails' can they also update the credit card
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00:33<linyu>hi, there
00:34<linyu>Dose the linode support the alipay payment ?
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00:44*lakridserne mumbles morning
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02:11<mauro>how are you?
02:11<James>man there are lots of successful startups out of australia
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02:19<MrPPS>there are?
02:23<MrPPS>atlassian is aussie?
02:23<MrPPS>totally did not know that
02:23<MrPPS>man, I do love bitbucket, but the lack of 2FA bothers me
02:23<James>MrPPS: yeah
02:23<MrPPS>and there's been an issue ticket open for it for roughly 2 years
02:23<ezat>never heard of that term.. and im from sydney
02:24<ezat>but startups meaning many signups to linode?
02:24<James>nah, startups means companies that started from like, two people
02:25<MrPPS>and then expand and become popular :)
02:26<ezat>kinda forced. we heavily taxed here.. desperate times and have a budget next week thats going to raise more taxes
02:26<MrPPS>I'm not looking forward to it
02:26<MrPPS>though I doubt anyone is
02:27<James>MrPPS: well, the company is now global
02:27-!-diabl0666 is now known as diabaway
02:27<James>fastmail is aussie
02:28<ezat>raise the fuel excise will just raise the price of commodities
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02:28<James>which they're -also- raising taxes on!
02:29<MrPPS>I'd forgotten about fastmail
02:29<Peng>is fastmail still independent?
02:29<James>MrPPS: their two factor sucks
02:29<James>Peng: no effing idea
02:29<James>FastMail Pty Ltd.
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02:39<MrPPS>James: what options do they provide for 2FA?
02:39<James>only secondary passwords
02:39<James>primary one can't use 2FA ;)
02:42<MrPPS>oh dear
02:43<dwfreed>the idea is that you'd set your primary account information to something random and secure
02:43<dwfreed>and store it in a password manager protected by similar means
02:45<MrPPS>so not really 2factor then
02:46<MrPPS>unless I'm misunderstanding?
02:47<rnowak>them considering this a valid mechanism reduces their single factor to a half factor
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02:53*dcraig tickles rnowak around a bit with a large telescopefish
02:53<dcraig>factor THAT!
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03:03<linbot>New news from forum: Reverse DNS with email server with multiple domains (1 IP) in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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03:08<linbot>New news from forum: forum index page layout broken in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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04:15<rabw>Hi there, got a few quick questions about linode
04:16*AlexC_ gets ready for quick answers
04:16<rabw>I am not totally familier with virtual servers, I gather that is what linode offers?
04:16<AlexC_>rabw: Yes
04:16<rabw>so you create a server and get everything setup and you're good to go?
04:16<Peng>What do you mean by "get everything setup"?
04:17<rabw>Sorry, I mean fromt he command line I can configure apache, ssh, postfix and all the normal stuff?
04:17<linbot>New news from forum: can't umount hard drive in General Discussion <>
04:17<Peng>Yes, you can.
04:18<rabw>As in, no different from my LAMP server I have running under my desk
04:18<rabw>ok cool
04:18<rabw>can I have fixed IP's, and more than one?
04:18<Peng>the IPs are fixed.
04:18<linbot>Each Linode comes with 1 public IPv4 address and 1 public IPv6 address. Additional IPv4 addresses are $ 1 per month, and require technical justification. Pools of 4,096 shareable IPv6 addresses or routed /64 and /56 blocks can be requested at no charge.
04:18<rabw>ok, is it possible to have 2?
04:18<rabw>great, thankyou
04:18<rabw>also, what happens if your virtual machine crashes
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04:19<Peng>rabw: what do you mean?
04:19<rabw>will my same machine come back up? Or will I be starting from scratch? That is where I have an understanding gap in my virtual machine knowledge...
04:19<Peng>you turn it on again, get a drink, and fix MySQL
04:20<rabw>great, so all that I have setup will remain there and I can investigate whatever problem I had?
04:20<rabw>thanks Peng, great help
04:20<Peng>actually you can check a box so it will automatically be rebooted again
04:21<rabw>perfect, thanks
04:22<rabw>Oh also, I guess that all virtual machines are spread across many physical machines so reliability should not be an issue? (I'm researching this because my physical colocated machine which I think is overkill for me has a hardware problem)
04:23<Peng>no, your VPS is running one one physical server. If the physical server dies, they'll fix it ASap.
04:23<lakridserne>rabw: Linode will place your Linodes on different host nodes if available
04:23<lakridserne>rabw: If you have multiple Linodes that is
04:23<Peng>Unlike cheap colocation, they have actual people who actually fix problems. :)
04:24<Peng>But hardware isn't magic.
04:24<rabw>so for redundancy do some people run 2 cloned webservers with a load balancer?
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04:40<linbot>New news from forum: Reverse DNS with email server with multiple domains (1 IP) in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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04:57<linbot>New news from forum: Reverse DNS with email server with multiple domains (1 IP) in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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04:58<James>I run two cloned Peng's
04:59<Peng>we run you ragged, sweetie
05:02<lakridserne>James: If I clone you are there then 4 cloned Peng's running?
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05:19<linbot>New news from forum: can't umount hard drive in General Discussion <>
05:23<AlexC_>Surely one is enough
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05:50<tiny>Loving the upgrades! Thanks linode!
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05:52<tiny>Anyway, I have two ISPs at our company for redundancy. Doing multi wan balancing. I think linode keeps logging me out because of this.
05:52<tiny>Anyway to fix it?
05:52<tiny>besides editing my FW rules?
05:54<James>tiny: yeah, the session cookies don't work that way :(
05:54<James>tiny: even doing ipv6 on a dual-stack connection causes it
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06:37<eagles0513875>hey guys are there any known networking issues in london
06:37<KamiNuvini>pingdom shows no issues for my london nodes
06:39<eagles0513875>issues with my node then :(
06:39<eagles0513875>either that or connectivity issues wiht my laptop
06:39<eagles0513875>yep laptop issue
06:39<KamiNuvini>what ip?
06:39<eagles0513875>Kamilion: its not the node its the other laptop im also on
06:39<AlexC_>I believe one of the Queens corgis is nibbling on one of the tubes
06:40<AlexC_>That or it has wee'd up your nodes host
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06:40<eagles0513875>lol AlexC_
06:40<eagles0513875>its my mac book pro
06:44<eagles0513875>anyone in here actually running any nodes with gentoo or nginx
06:44<eagles0513875>as I am a bit confused with nginx in regards to the vhost equivalent and how to write them
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06:51<AlexC_>gentoo or nginx?
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06:53<eagles0513875>AlexC_: more nginx vhost equivalent
06:54<AlexC_>eagles0513875: So you want the nginx vhost equilv to the ones from ... gentoo?
06:55<AlexC_>I think you're confused :)
06:56<eagles0513875>no no
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06:57<AlexC_>Then you're going to have to provide us with the name of the other software you mean ...
06:58<AlexC_>Shall we assume Apache? Lighttpd? IIS?
06:59<eagles0513875>im confused on setting up the vhosts on nginx
06:59<AlexC_>You're also confused at what you're asking
07:00<eagles0513875>i dunno the terms of nginx
07:00<eagles0513875>as I know about apache
07:00<AlexC_>You've given the name of one piece of software (nginx) yet asking us what the equivalant configuration is. For that we need two pices of software
07:01<eagles0513875>AlexC_: does nginx work with vhosts?
07:01<AlexC_>e.g. I have this config in Apache, what is the equivalant in nginx?
07:01<eagles0513875>ok im confused about how to setup vhosts in nginx
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07:28<markglasgow>why can't all dedi/vps providers be as awesome as linode? :( Have you completely removed the HDD servers - trying to work with Kimsufi is like pulling teeth
07:29<lakridserne>markglasglow: I believe there are still a lot of HDD servers because of a shortage of SSD servers
07:29<lakridserne>But I believe they are all being replaced
07:30<Peng>They've certainly not replaced 'em *yet*
07:30<markglasgow>can't see them on the pricing page
07:30<Peng>you can't choose
07:30<markglasgow>wish I could build my own Linode :(
07:30<Peng>it's the same plan, it's just better
07:31<@qmr>let me just go ahead and force thousands of customers from their hosts with 2 days notice
07:31<Peng>You could probably file a ticket and *ask* for a VPS on old hardware.
07:31<Peng>if you want
07:31<markglasgow>hmm I might give it a bash
07:31<lakridserne>qmr: Good idea!
07:31<@qmr>anything newly created is going to land on the new hotness
07:32<Peng>even if you ask nicely for old coldness?
07:32<markglasgow>Just need 100Mbps out, 5GB transfer, 2 cores, and 1TB+ hd
07:32<lakridserne>qmr: What about Dallas? Aren't they sold out?
07:32<@qmr>yes, as such, nothing newly created there
07:32<lakridserne>markglasglow: Choose the 2 GB plan then
07:33<@qmr>to the best of my knowledge at least
07:33<lakridserne>qmr: Oh okay just thought that would be created on old hardware then
07:33<markglasgow>lakridserne: it only has a 48GB hard drive
07:34<lakridserne>markglasglow: If you really need more HDD space, choose a higher plan - else you can use remote storage like Amazon S3
07:34<markglasgow>lakridserne: yeah but paying $500 a month for a 1TB isn't really worth it when I can get it for €16
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07:45<wiineeth> what do u think about that?
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08:45<pronto>how much cloud could a clown clog if a clown could clog cloud?
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08:50<dzho>200 months is what, uh . . . about 17 years?
08:50*dzho tries to figure out what you'd do with 1TB of space if you can only transfer off a half-percent of it a month
08:51<dzho>weird science
08:52<dzho>but sure.
08:52<kaf>good morning linode
08:53<centzilius>good afternoon kaf
08:53<dzho>Peng: for the data-hungry science I know about, 1TB is sort of in a weird in between area--not usually enough for most things, way too much for a lot of the others
08:53<kaf>i need motivation to study for ccna today
08:53<kaf>my motivation seems to have gotten lost on the way to work today
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08:53<kaf>if found, please email me a pic
08:53<dzho>if I see it on my way in, I'll pick it up and let you know, ok?
08:53-!-mattmont [] has joined #linode
08:54<dzho>then again, I *could* use a little more motivation.
08:54<kaf>and i will give $5 and an extra ethernet cable
08:54<kaf>kk thanks
08:54<kaf>dont take it
08:54<kaf>thats stealing
08:56<Peng>dzho: finder's keepers
08:56<Peng>finders keepers? is that apostrophied?
08:57<kaf>i always imagines it to be finders, keepers
08:57<kaf>so i'd say no
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09:13<James>Slackware is mikegrb's favourite distro. True story.
09:13<@mikegrb>as long as we are talking 1993
09:15<James>Sure :)
09:16<@mikegrb>! people still use slackware?!?!
09:16<James>Has the slackware trigger become impossible to set off... or is it just not there at all
09:16<@mikegrb>guess you are the unluckiest guy ever
09:16<dzho>it's ALIVE
09:17<James>Must be
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09:17<@mikegrb>mmm cake
09:17<James>The cake trigger was broken a few days ago
09:17<kaf>lol i was looking at job postings last night and came accross a sys admin one that wanted you to know windows 95 and 98
09:17<James>kaf: >.>
09:17<gparent>it is rate limited
09:17<kaf>this is how low im willing to go to get out of my effing job lololol
09:17<James>yeah but bacon worked, whilst cake didn't
09:18<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
09:18<gparent>yes, because bacon made you hit the limit
09:18<James>tasty bacon
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09:20<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
09:20<Peng>Slackware should use "bacon cake lol" as a release codename. mikegrb would explode.
09:20<James>cake bacon lol rofl!
09:20<James>guess i've been ignored, lol
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09:34<@mikegrb>Peng: I'd use that
09:36<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
09:36<@mikegrb>mmm cake
09:36<@mikegrb>mmm bacon
09:36<pronto>bacon cake
09:36<pronto>cake bacon
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09:41<kaf>did anyone find my motivation?
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09:42<pronto>i sold it on ebay for tree fidy
09:42<kaf>come on man
09:42<kaf>why you do this to me
09:43<gparent>because trees are great
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09:43<gparent>I purchase mine on ebay too
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10:15<pronto>alias yolo='git commit -am "deal with it" && git push -f origin master'
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10:20<BG>It's pretty easy to take a linode and break it up into 2 disks and do RAID 1 mirroring, right?
10:20<Peng>um, why?
10:20<Nivex>the underlying storage is already RAID
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10:22<BG>if it was RAID 0 would I see a speed increase?
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10:22<Peng>BG: You want to make multiple disk images and RAID 0 them?
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10:22<BG>It's more like.. is this possible?
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10:22<@qmr>pretty sure you would see a speed decrease
10:22<Peng>It's possible to do dumb things with your disk images, yes.
10:22<GTAXL-iPhone>any reason my linode went down?
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10:22<gparent>yes there is one
10:22<gparent>let's find it
10:22<@qmr>yours is one of many thousands. be more specific? did you look at your console yet? have you received a ticket from us?
10:22<Peng>BG: But since your images are already located arbitrarily on a RAID array, moar RAID is pointless.
10:22<GTAXL-iPhone>came back, had network loss :/
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10:22<gparent>I want a raid array array.
10:22<BG>Peng: Thanks.
10:23<@qmr>GTAXL-iPhone: open a ticket with a pair of mtr reports if it persists
10:23<avenj>GTAXL-iPhone: newark?
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10:23<Peng>Redundant Array of Expensive RAID
10:23<avenj>GTAXL-iPhone: minor hiccup here too, recurring thing lately
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10:25<daemonic>i also lost connectivity in newark for 2 min
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10:25<BeBoo>As did I (lose connection to Newark briefly)
10:25<gparent>yeah also lost connectivity
10:25<BG>A simple question posed to the helpful (if not very professional) folks at Linode.
10:25-!-Josh` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:25<BeBoo>Just happened again.
10:25-!-array_ [] has joined #linode
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10:25<ATL>Losing connectivity in Newark intermittently here, too
10:25-!-brianok [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:25<gparent>I think we're not alone!1!
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10:25-!-mode/#linode [+o bolow] by ChanServ
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10:25<MajObviousman>fuck newark
10:25-!-chipotle [] has joined #linode
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10:25<GTAXL-iPhone>just went agaib
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10:25<gparent>newark reigns supreme
10:25<gparent>don't diss
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10:25<GTAXL-iPhone>i would know I use it for ssh tunnel :/
10:25-!-squidly_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:25<daemonic>it's been happening pretty often lately
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10:25<GTAXL-iPhone>is it a ddos or something?
10:25-!-squidly [] has joined #linode
10:25<memecake>so... something IS happening to Linode this time, not me? XD
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10:26<ATL>Problem in Atlanta as well?
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10:27<BG>Linode's admin piece is still running on Cold Fusion, right?
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10:27<haljordan2>we got issues today?
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10:28<haljordan2>i just wanna know if it's my server that's f'd or is anyone else having issues?
10:28<MajObviousman>is it a day that ends in 'y' ? if so, we got issues
10:28-!-jrhorn424afk [~jrhorn424@2604:180::5d5e:5828] has joined #linode
10:28<kuroishi>haljordan2: just you.
10:28<Peng>haljordan2: there appear to be network issues
10:28<kuroishi>and anyone else on the linode network, evidently
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10:28<haljordan2>thanks Peng ,
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10:28-!-mode/#linode [+o sharck] by ChanServ
10:29<BG>I wish DigitalOcean's upload was faster.
10:29<@qmr>Newark should be good now.
10:29<haljordan2>just wanted confirmation without starting a damn ticket and making them work even more in an outage
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10:30<atula>is there some network issue?
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10:31<Chroder>Seems newark is having problems [again]
10:31<haljordan2>[07:28] <Peng> haljordan2: there appear to be network issues [07:28] <haljordan2> kk [07:28] <kuroishi> and anyone else on the linode network, evidently
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10:31<BG>Hmm... not according to
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10:32<haljordan2>[07:29] <@qmr> Newark should be good now.
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10:32<trippeh>What makes newark so .. sensetive anyway
10:32<trippeh>london never seems to go down ;)
10:33<@mikegrb>mmm crumpets
10:33<AlexC_>Our servers are powered by crumpets, far superior
10:33<AlexC_>Oh, that's a new one
10:33*MajObviousman stares at mikegrb
10:34<MajObviousman>one wonders how long that one's been waiting
10:34-!-BG [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
10:34<kaf>yeah a server im on just dropped
10:34-!-Q3Man [] has joined #linode
10:34<kaf>i knonw its linode
10:34<kaf>not sure what dc though
10:35<AlexC_>How can you not know which DC you use?
10:35<kaf>yeah its newark
10:35<Chroder>"Thanks for getting in touch with us. Our network administrators have just worked to mitigate a DDoS attack targeting our Newark data center. You should be seeing an improvement in the situations shortly." though they say that every time
10:35<kaf>its not *mine*
10:35<Q3Man>are we reffering to newark being sluggish?
10:35<kaf>its just one im connected to
10:35<AlexC_>I see
10:35<chris>We've been told it's a ddos attack - but then they said the same thing when actually it was a huge power failure so who knows.
10:36<gparent>a power failure is a denial of service!
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10:36<kaf>goin down hard now
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10:37<@qmr>I hope you are not implying that we intentionally provided incorrect information. Regarding that issue, we provided the best information we had at that time, and later provided updated information when we knew it was a power issue.
10:37<atula>So what’s the current status, guys?
10:38<trippeh>back in the day I used to irc from a box in the core network of an ISP, had IRC connections lasting years at a time. Now that is stable :P
10:38-!-ezraw [~ezraw@] has left #linode []
10:38<gparent>I remember some idling contest on GameSurge
10:38<kaf>qmr: :/ we know you werent misleading
10:38<gparent>the winner had a rfc1918 address
10:38<kaf>just doin the best you can
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10:39-!-GTAXL-iPhone [] has quit [Quit: See you later! :)]
10:39<trippeh>gparent: irc server wasnt even on the same isp.
10:40<@qmr>atula: Current status is fixed as far as I know. Are you still seeing issues?
10:40<ATL>I'm not seeing any loss right now
10:40<gparent>trippeh: yeah in my case above the server operator was directly connected to it :/
10:41<atula>it’s a loose-loose battle. Providing “it’s reason X” which turns out to be wrong… there are only 2 possibilities there: 1) intentionally misleading—well, that kinda sucks 2) honest mistake — imho this sucks more as it tells me the folks aren’t on top of their stuff. Just a thought.
10:41<trippeh>but they were peering through a local IX, and the irc server had its transit completely filtered out
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10:41<kaf>atula are you talking about linode?
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10:42<atula>kaf: I was simply commenting on previous statements
10:42<MajObviousman>atula: and third option, don't supply any reason and piss off even more people
10:42<kaf>kk wasnt sure
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10:43<kaf>my linode server has been getting ddosed a fair amoutnrecently by a guy who is an idiot
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10:43<kaf>i have a friend work on it
10:43<kaf>mitigates that shit like you wouldnt believe
10:43<kaf>he's a genius with it
10:44<atula>well, sometimes, a simple: “hey, we see some issue and working on this right now"
10:44<atula>is fine enough
10:44<kaf>watching him work in iptables is like listening to a beethoven materpiece :D
10:44<kaf>its almost worth the ddos
10:45<MajObviousman>we can all agree that the absolute best course of action is just not to have an issue to begin with
10:45<atula>Haha, yeah, that would be good.
10:45<MajObviousman>"be perfect"
10:45<atula>But that’s just silly.
10:45*MajObviousman gets right on that
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10:48<Peng>atula: chris: qmr: I don't think Linode ever did say that the power outage was a DDoS. #linode speculated so, but official word was all "investigating connectivity" and such.
10:50<Peng>So I don't think anything irresponsible was said.
10:50<Peng>When you don't know, the only options are to say nothing or to say "we're trying to figure it out". The former is obviously unacceptable.
10:51<Peng>Well, the other option is to lie.
10:52<MajObviousman>and especially, in the very earliest parts of any kind of issue, a lot of things look the same. You've got your monitoring board, and you see things x, y, and m are all alerting, so you resopnd based on that
10:52<Peng>"Have you tried rebooting your modem?"
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10:56<Chroder>@Peng in our ticket the tech said "We have detected a large incoming DDoS attack to our Newark facility. We already have our administrators working to mitigate the attack. We will have service restored as soon as possible."
10:56<Chroder>so they really did say it was a ddos
10:57-!-haljordan2 [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
10:57<chris>Yes, we were told the power outage was a Ddos attack; it was over an hour before we found it from the status page it was not (i.e. the ticket was never updated).
10:57<Neal>anyone know how to make curl find ssl certs (debian)?
10:57<Peng>Oh. Crap.
10:58<chris>Of course linode did not aim to mislead us - and we have zero visibility into their communication channels between them and their datacentre; but from the transmission of information - improvements could be made you would think.
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10:58<Peng>Neal: it wfm by default. It seems to work for you by default, too, since the error message is reporting that CApath is set properly.
10:58<Peng>Neal: do you have ca-certificates installed?
10:58<Peng>Neal: it wfm on Ubuntu by default*
10:59<Peng>Neal: that site doesn't work for me, though. I'm guessing it's busted?
10:59<Peng>huh, works in Firefox
11:00<Neal>403 is expected
11:00<Neal>although curl work on my mac
11:00<Peng>curl on Ubuntu gives me a similar error.
11:00<Peng>ew, rc4
11:01<Peng>Neal: Qualys reports that it's failing to send an intermediate cert.
11:01<trippeh>that will break a bunch of clients
11:02<trippeh>but not all.
11:02<trippeh>and some just have known intermediaries in their cert store
11:03<Peng>Look at that, RC4 and no PFS.
11:03<Peng>Where should we direct the Predator drone?
11:03<Peng>SSL 3.0 too
11:04<Neal>i don't know what that means :/ is it not secure?
11:04<Peng>Neal: So you could probably get curl to work if you downloaded their intermediate cert yourself.
11:04-!-phuh [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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11:05<Neal>i'll try that
11:06-!-jonkri [] has quit [Quit: jonkri]
11:06<Peng>of course it'll break again if Starbucks changes to a cert with a different intermediate without fixing the problem :\
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11:07<Neal>any idea why it works on my mac then?
11:07-!-atula [~atula@] has quit [Quit: I'm not available at the moment.]
11:07<Peng>cert store already has a copy, or its version of curl downloads it in the background
11:08<linbot>New news from status: [RESOLVED] Newark Connectivity Issues <>
11:09<BeBoo>I am getting the message "RewriteEngine is not allowed here" for the .htaccess file on my site, even though I have AllowOverride set to All for that directory. Any ideas what I can check?
11:12-!-niemeyer [~niemeyer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:12<BeBoo>The requested URL is:
11:15<Neal>Peng: makes sense now, thanks
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11:19<pronto>such troll
11:19<pronto>many insults
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11:23<Mann>Hi guys I am planning to move from Rackspace to Linode
11:23-!-m3nd3s [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:23<Mann>I just have few basic questions
11:23<dwfreed>ask away
11:23<Mann>would appreciate few quick answers .
11:24<pronto>we're going to need a question though
11:24<linbot>New news from forum: Apache, MySql, and PHP Installed - Next Steps for WordPress? in General Discussion <>
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11:24<Mann>1. can u upgrade or upscale my server ram and storage any time without effecting my os and file system
11:25<Peng>it requires a small amount of downtime, though
11:25<Mann>2. is there an distro for asterisk or pbxinflash or similar asterisk based ?
11:25<@qmr>not if you have a dozen Linodes and NodeBalancer!
11:25<pronto> learn2regex
11:25<@qmr>Mann: No, but feel free to bootstrap your own from rescue mode
11:26<Mann>oh ok thx
11:27-!-phuh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:27<Mann>also is there any kind of db clustering available ?
11:27<Peng>Linode doesn't provide a managed database service. You are free to set up whatever, though.
11:27<Josh`_>asterisk? i remember using that at my old old... old job
11:27<Peng>what do the cool kids use now?
11:28<Mann>and option to save my installed os to create more linodes or restore existing inacse needed
11:28<MajObviousman>they use POTS
11:28<@qmr>Peng: Freeswitch
11:28-!-phuh [] has joined #linode
11:29<Peng>Mann: Yes and no.
11:29<MajObviousman>what happened to asterisk anyhow
11:29<@qmr>Mann: We offer managed backups for 25% of the plan price. 4 slots, 1 daily 2 weekly 1 manual snapshot
11:29-!-phuh [] has quit []
11:29<Nivex>I just moved my 2FA to another device. Do I need to regen my scratch code too?
11:29<Josh`_>used to work for telelink
11:30<dwfreed>Nivex: probably
11:30<Mann>this is data snapshot or complete os + data
11:30<Peng>Mann: it's everything
11:30<Mann>I mean if I have installed verious modules on my os does snapshot let me restore full 100% ?
11:30<Mann>ok that sounds good
11:31<Mann>now about db if i choose to install db cluster I can do backup of same and even only the db if I want instead of full system/node
11:32<@qmr>the backup service backs up everything on your Linode
11:32<Peng>a database is just software and files
11:32<Peng>software is also just files
11:32<@qmr>Everything is a file!
11:32<MajObviousman>this is Linux, after all
11:32<@qmr>... (except when it isn't)
11:32<MajObviousman>nope, everything
11:32<Peng>ram is a file!
11:32<MajObviousman>even things that can't easily be modeled by a file are files
11:33<Josh`_>i heard linode backups didn't like sql to be running
11:33<Mann>I mean instead of wasting my storage space for non required if I just choose to backup specific can that be done also ?
11:33-!-dhaaker [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
11:33<MajObviousman>Josh`_: that's true of any backup service, not just Linode's
11:34<MajObviousman>it's taking a point-in-time snapshot of your database. What happens if that point in time is in the middle of a write or a transaction?
11:34<Josh`_>make your own sql dumps as well
11:34-!-atula [~atula@] has joined #linode
11:34<@qmr>Josh`_: Depends on how busy your database is. if it is in teh middle of a transaction there may be inconsistencies. You can avoid this by dumping the database to a flat file before your backup window
11:34<MajObviousman>yes, there you go. For SQL anything, don't rely on the backups and do your own dump
11:35<MajObviousman>and this is true of any server you lease, not just Linode
11:35<Josh`_>pretty sure that can be automated? good ole cron
11:35<MajObviousman>yep, it can
11:35<@qmr>Mann: No. The backup service backs up everything, and you have no concern about storage space. The fee is the same if you have 1GB worth of files or 100% of your disk quota of files
11:36<Josh`_>don't just rely on the linode backup though...
11:36<MajObviousman>background data-deuplication, yo
11:36<Mann>ah cool
11:36<Q3Man>I never have enough storage space to back up /dev/null :(
11:36<MajObviousman>savins on the bits
11:36<Mann>well thx for all the answers its been helpful
11:36<Q3Man>although it compresses really well
11:36<@qmr>Yes, you should maintain your own offsite backups as well
11:37<Josh`_>cannot stress that more
11:39<MajObviousman>well you could
11:39<linbot>Josh`_: Yo mommas so stupid she tried to blow up a car and burnt her lips on the tail pipe. (823:21/5) [momur]
11:40<Josh`_>nice cat
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11:41<Hadi>I need a free hosting control panel for my vps
11:41<Hadi>linux vps
11:42<Hadi>Is it working good as cpanel ?
11:42<MajObviousman>is cpanel free?
11:42<HedgeMage>ewwww...web-based tools should not have root access to your's just dumb
11:42<Josh`_>have a look at this
11:42<pronto>HedgeMage: live on the edge
11:42<MajObviousman>then no
11:43<Hadi>could we host 3 domains on vps with virtalmin ?
11:43<Josh`_>the GPL is the free version
11:47<Hadi>Thank you friends for reply
11:49-!-arby [] has joined #linode
11:50<Josh`_>Hadi: be sure to read through
11:50-!-m3nd3s [] has joined #linode
11:50<@rohara>HedgeMage where's your sense of adventure?
11:50-!-zibri [] has joined #linode
11:51-!-arthurfurlan [] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
11:51<Josh`_>just get rid of your root user, obvious fix
11:51<HedgeMage>rohara, pronto: I work search and rescue -- and have done so with my infant in a pack on my back -- I like BDSM, including some things considered "edge play", I train in martial arts and prefer the ones where I walk away bruised every day (or worse), I work with at-risk populations in some of the most dangerous ghettos in America...I've taken on three rapists at once, and faced down a car full
11:51<HedgeMage>of idiot gangbangers who thought they had something to prove...I can even kill a man from horseback (all true)...
11:51<HedgeMage>but I would NEVER, EVER give a stupid webapp root on my box.
11:52*Josh`_ golf clap
11:53<pronto>iw ould
11:53<Josh`_>giving yourself root is a security flaw.
11:53<Josh`_>don't do it.
11:53<arby>Hi. I connect to lish at I note the connection defaults to a ssh-dss KEX. My local env supports, and offers EC KEXs -- "KexAlgorithms,ecdh-sha2-nistp521,...". It appears lish runs "OpenSSH_5.5p1-hpn13v9 Debian-6+squeeze5linode1 pat OpenSSH_5* compat 0x0c000000"; v5.5, iiuc, is not (as) EC capable as in 6.6. Is there an alternate lish portal that DOES support EC key exchange, etc.?
11:54<HedgeMage>Josh`_: only if you are pronto :P
11:54<Josh`_>do you run everything behind a vpn nat?
11:54<Josh`_>HedgeMage that is
11:55<Peng>HedgeMage: So do you regularly hunt man from horseback?
11:55<Josh`_>hey James...
11:55<Josh`_>wait what
11:55<HedgeMage>Peng: I do not. I just happened to have trained with the US Army's last horse-mounted cavalry unit and it sounded cool.
11:56<Josh`_>but can you ssh into your server while on horseback?
11:57<HedgeMage>Josh`_: I suppose I *could*, but I've never had cause to.
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11:57<BeBoo>I am getting the message "RewriteEngine is not allowed here" for the .htaccess file on my site, even though I have AllowOverride set to All for that directory and the parent. Any ideas what I can check? - the requested URL is
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12:02<trippeh>arby: squeeze4lyfe!
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12:03<arby>trippeh: huh?
12:05<trippeh>Hm. lish-london seems to run 6.6.x actually
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12:07<arby>trippeh: is/are EC enabled @ london's lish, afaynk?
12:07<trippeh>arby: same when I connect to lish-fremont
12:07<arby>trippeh: you're seeing 6.6 @ freemont?
12:08<Josh`_>how many of you actually ditch ssh for lish
12:08<trippeh>Connection to 22 port [tcp/ssh] succeeded!
12:08<trippeh>SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_6.6.1p1 Debian-4~bpo70+1
12:09<trippeh>Josh`_: I'm getting on london
12:10<trippeh>oh that is transport
12:11<trippeh>I should try some new keys. But not now :)
12:11<arby>trippeh: here's what I see:
12:12<arby>chacha's supported? digging a bit ...
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12:17<arby>trippeh: openssh 6.6 support chacha20... "authenticated encryption" and curve25519... "key exchange algorithm".
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12:18<arby>tbh, i'm not sure if/how they mix. in any case, I get EC usage in my connection using the curve25519/ecdsa support
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12:21<linbot>New news from forum: can't umount hard drive in General Discussion <>
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12:28<Trending>Hello, I'm looking to start a small business making websites to some restaurants and I want to take care of the hosting too. I found out about linode from a friend but I don't really know how to manage a server. I wanted to know, how many wordpress site can I host on a Linode 2GB plan ?
12:28<dwfreed>that's going to depend on what those wordpress sites are doing
12:29<dwfreed>if they're quiet and not very complex, you could probably pull off a lot of them
12:31<Trending>dwfreed: They are gonna be business sites, so 5 to 10 pages max with a couple of images and 500 visitors per month, max!
12:31<dwfreed>that sounds like it fits my description
12:33<Trending>dwfreed: something between 50 and 80 sites ?
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12:37<arby>trippeh: fwiw, I've added chacha20 cipher support to my local ssh(d)_config's. locally, I get expected "debug1: kex: server->client <implicit>". @ lish, I still get just "kex: server->client aes128-ctr hmac-md5 none".
12:37<Peng>I'd assume ChaCha20 is enabled by default in those versions that support it.
12:38<Peng>I am correct, though it seems AES is preferred.
12:39<arby>Peng: by default, yes, AES is preferred. Unless it's otherwise prioritized ...
12:40<dwfreed>the server supports chacha20-poly1305
12:41<dwfreed>you can see that with ssh -vvv lish-$
12:44<arby>dwfreed: got it; with higher verbosity I can see that -- as well, iiuc, as edcsa and curve22519 kexs. sooo ... what am I doing wrong that I can't connect to lish using EC? I *can* connect to my linode's SSHD using chacha20+cureve22519 with no issues. I'm missing something :-/
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12:49<Peng>debug2: kex_parse_kexinit: ssh-rsa,ssh-dss
12:49<Peng>Seems not to support Ed25519 keys?
12:50<Peng>Curve25519 key exchange ought to work, though...
12:51<dwfreed>somebody mention a server you know is running 6.5 or 6.6
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12:59<arby>Peng: that debug2 output is reporting on CLIENT's config, right? e.g., on my CLIENT, I've: "HostKeyAlgorithms ssh-ed25519,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384,ecdsa-sha2-nistp256,ssh-dss,ssh-rsa"
12:59<arby>going a bit cross-eyed tracking what's client & what's server ...
12:59<dwfreed>it shows both client and server
12:59<Thiago>are you machine windows?
12:59<arby>Thiago: me?
12:59<dwfreed>Thiago: no, Linode only provides Linux servers
13:00<dwfreed>arby: everything after this line is the server stuff: debug2: kex_parse_kexinit: first_kex_follows 0
13:00-!-shoerain [~ehtesh@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:feae:8f] has left #linode [WeeChat 0.4.2]
13:00<Thiago>Know any that has windows?
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13:02<arby>dwfreed: this line of output: debug2: kex_parse_kexinit: ssh-ed25519,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384,ecdsa-sha2-nistp256,ssh-dss,ssh-rsa
13:02<arby>appears BEFORE debug2: kex_parse_kexinit: first_kex_follows 0
13:03<dwfreed>yes, that's your local system
13:03<arby>I'm missing something silly, methinks. ALl my connections use chacha20 + ed25519, except for the lish connect.
13:03<dwfreed>I think the lish sshd_config is only set to allow rsa and dsa
13:04<Peng>that should be irrelevant to Curve25519 use, though.
13:04<arby>[09:09] <trippeh> Josh`_: I'm getting on london
13:05<dwfreed>set your local ciphers to only chacha20-poly1305
13:05<Peng>I have an older OpenSSH, but I still get ECDH lish
13:05<dwfreed>you can do that on a per-host basis
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13:06<arby>dwfreed: done. still ignores me: debug1: kex: server->client aes128-ctr hmac-md5 none
13:07<dwfreed>then you're sending more ciphers than you think you are
13:07<dwfreed>because server->client would never be aes128-ctr if you weren't telling the server you support it
13:09<dwfreed>like I said before, in kex_parse_kexinit, anything after this line is what the server sends, and anything before it is what you send: debug2: kex_parse_kexinit: first_kex_follows 0
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13:10<arby>dwfreed: well, you're right. I *am* apparently sending more ciphers ... for the life of me not sure why or how. I've reduced my ssh_config to ONLY contain "Ciphers"
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13:42<tom-the-cow>Hi all :) Does anyone know how finely-grained hourly billing is? E.g. if I want to spin up six 2gb instances for 10 minutes, will that be billed as one hour or six?
13:44<@caker>it's hourly, hence the name :)
13:44<@caker>it rounds up to the next hour
13:45<tom-the-cow>So in my example, that would be billed as six hours?
13:45<@caker>it's one hour each, times however many -- so yes, six in that case
13:46<@caker>Do you really have sub-10 minute use cases? Can you just use the redeploy instead of destroyingthe instances each time?
13:46<tom-the-cow>Aha, great, that was my brief confusion :) Thanks for your quick answer!
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13:48<tom-the-cow>Yeah, lots of sub-10-minute use cases - one thing I'd like to do is set up WP automatically, install a design, take screenshots (all headless via e.g. phantoms), and then destroy and start over again.
13:48<tom-the-cow>I wasn't aware of redeploy though - will take a look at that now!
13:48<pronto><3 phantomjs
13:48<tom-the-cow>pronto: still feels like magic every time I use it :)
13:48<pronto>it really does
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13:50<Peng>tom-the-cow: You don't have to delete hte node to "destroy and start over again".
13:50<felixjet>can someone help me with a security issue please? i got a problem, but i don't know how to deal with it :(
13:51<felixjet>someone injected russian text in one of my websites, inside the mongodb database xD
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13:51<tom-the-cow>Peng: My Googling is failing me at present, do you know what I should be searching for to find out more about this
13:51<Peng>tom-the-cow: You can delete a Linode's disk images and redeploy.
13:51<@qmr>felixjet: shut down the Linode, audit your logs
13:52<felixjet>nothing in logs that can help me
13:52<tom-the-cow>Peng: Oh, so it's as simple as that? That makes sense, thanks!
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13:53<felixjet>or i don't know where to find something useful
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14:19<lolo> holy shit, check out
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14:19<Guest10046> holy shit, check out
14:19<staticsafe>rnowak: ^
14:19-!-lolo [~pop@] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2014-05-09 18:19:54)]
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14:20*Peng snorts
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14:20<kaf>what the eff
14:20<kaf>what is going on
14:20<DCCC>Hi just wanted to know if linode has some service to connect linodes with dedicated pipe on high speed between different datacenters
14:20<staticsafe>kaf: spam
14:20<Peng>DCCC: no
14:20<kaf>yeah but
14:20<kaf>a real person just linked that site in another chan
14:21<kaf>so weird
14:21<Peng>DCCC: The different data centers are connected by the Internet.
14:21<Peng>DCCC: which may or may not be high speed
14:21<DCCC>yes that I know i was thinking some network level pipe or something
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14:35<newusr>I am trying to find out the price calculator or price list of linode for additional resources example if I want to upgrade my memory/ram or storage etc at later stage what is the cost to these components ?
14:35<newusr>where can i find the info
14:36<@caker>newusr: you can only upgrade between plans.
14:37<newusr>so incrase i need more storage i will have to jump to next level of plan ?
14:38<newusr>i see
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14:43<kaf>hows the weather ont he shore caker
14:43<kaf>on the*
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15:14<linbot>New news from forum: Apache, MySql, and PHP Installed - Next Steps for WordPress? in General Discussion <>
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15:34<Adi__>I want to know if its possible to have small instances like $10/month?
15:35<Adi__>Ok, thank you
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15:37<linbot>New news from forum: forum index page layout broken in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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15:48<linbot>New news from forum: can't umount hard drive in General Discussion <> || forum index page layout broken in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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16:18<agatha>Hi, I need assistance. I prepaid 50 dollars and now there are no slots for the plans I need...what's this all about?
16:18<shiv>Hi! I need to talk to one of support people.
16:19<Nivex>shiv: file a ticket
16:19<@caker>agatha: things have been pretty popular lately and Dallas, for instance, is low on availabiltiy. You can choose another datacenter, or open a ticket with your requirements and we'll see what we can do to assist you
16:19-!-zoid_ [~awainer@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:20<agatha>Oh, it's limited per data center
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16:22<agatha>Thanks Caker. As a suggestion, maybe the error message should invite the user to choose another datacenter, be a little more helpful
16:22<kaf>damn thought it would say hello back
16:22<mockingbird>I signed up for an account over 2 hours ago, and uploaded the required docs. How long does it take to activate the account usually?
16:23<@caker>mockingbird: not that long. We'll look into it right now - one moment, please
16:23<mockingbird>sure. thanks.
16:23<@caker>agatha: ok - great suggestion. I agree and will pass it along. Sorry for the confusion
16:24<agatha>thanks for your help, best regards
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16:25<linbot>New news from forum: forum index page layout broken in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
16:26<mockingbird>Yes. The account has been activated. Thanks <caker>
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16:41<linbot>New news from forum: Static IP - resolvconf and the "Linode way". Odd update. in Linux Networking <>
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17:09<Tea>aw, no pacman probing in longview?
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17:21<mockingbird>I setup with Ubuntu 14.04 and vnc4server. The instructions given in the VNC Guide for 12.04 dont seem to work. I changed the last line of xstartup to gnome-session - it doesn't work. How can I get the Desktop GUI?
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17:29<jed>Restart rewriting all your Java
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17:30<linbot>New news from forum: Static IP - resolvconf and the "Linode way". Odd update. in Linux Networking <>
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17:33<@qmr>knock knock
17:35<linbot>go away
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17:36<Nivex>follow the white rabbit
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17:38<qlaras>Is there a list of what changes have been made when I select a CentOS 6.5 install, or an easy way to get a 'stock' (minimal) CentOS install?
17:38<qlaras>(New to linode)
17:39<dwfreed>yum list installed
17:39<@caker>qlaras: hello -- they are minimal installs
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17:41<qlaras>I ask because i notice selinux is disabled, and stuff like man is installed
17:41<qlaras>So wondered what else (if anything) was changed
17:42<@caker>we don't molest the distros - but perhaps a few things like screen may be installed to make life easier for our docs team, etc.
17:42<@caker>selinux is disabled in the kernel (independently of the distro you deploy)
17:43<qlaras>Is it a problem if I want to turn it on?
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17:43<dwfreed>no, but you'll need to run a custom kernel
17:43<@qmr>You will need to use a distro or custom built kernel
17:43<@caker>it is, since you won't be able to use our kernel. You can, however, enable pv_grub and boot your own kernel
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17:45<qlaras>Ok, so if I want a stock-CentOS config, I can create a blank disk image and do an install myself with the remote tools?
17:46<qlaras>(Trying to stay with the stock config/same as work for learning)
17:48<@caker>I wouldn't bother. There will be little significant difference between a "via cd minimial install" and our deployment, once you boot with pv_grub and the CentOS kernel
17:48<@qmr>Yes, you could. Not sure if Finnix is going to have the needful, so you might need to bootstrap your bootstrap. Would be faster to just use our image
17:48<qlaras>Ok, found the library page for distribution-supplied kernel with pv-grub
17:48<qlaras>That'll work for what I need.
17:49<qlaras>What virtualization/container solution does linode use?
17:49<qlaras>Thanks. That should take care of my questions for now :-D
17:52<linbot>New news from forum: forum index page layout broken in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
17:52<Penises_>old news
17:54-!-danblack [~danblack@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:56<dozn>Penises_: It says "New news", and linbot doesn't lie!
18:00<davidweb_>anybody know about caching with memcached on nginx/php-fpm/wordpress causing issues on e-commerce sites?
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18:00<davidweb_>i've asked at the appropriate channels and gotten no response, so I figured I'd ask the experts here.
18:01<davidweb_>apparently some site visitors can't add items to their cart, and i'm just figuring it's a caching issue.
18:01<davidweb_>and the memcached log is empty. so no issues there...
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18:11<davidweb_>so based on these stats, I'm getting about 53% misses with nginx / memcached
18:11<davidweb_>How can I find out why I'm getting misses, and how do I go about starting to fix this?
18:14-!-The-spiki [] has quit [Quit: The-spiki has left he building]
18:14<davidweb_>i guess the better question is - is memcached the right tool to use for a WordPress e-commerce site? Or is APC better?
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18:14<sirpengi>you should have misses
18:15<sirpengi>when you use caching and you've got a user session going
18:15<sirpengi>that's just to be expected
18:15<davidweb_>but this guy's example has near 100% hits
18:15<davidweb_>and very little misses.
18:15<davidweb_>what's the difference between that and another setup?
18:15<sirpengi>yeah because he has no interaction on the site
18:16<sirpengi>oh, i see comments in the blog entry
18:16<sirpengi>but nobody comments
18:16<sirpengi>oh, that's why, his comments are powered by jetpack
18:17<sirpengi>so he doesn't have any user sessions on his site
18:17<sirpengi>thus he can get 100% hit
18:17<davidweb_>So one of the sites I run has reports of people having trouble adding items to their cart (WooCommerce)
18:17<davidweb_>I figured it was a memcached problem, since that's what I use for all my sites.
18:17<davidweb_>But I see no errors in memcached...
18:18<sirpengi>you wouldn't have errors in memcached
18:18-!-SuPaJeRm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:18<sirpengi>because if the problem is with memcached, then the problem would be that you're giving the use a cached version
18:18<sirpengi>rather than the version tailored to their session
18:19<sirpengi>i mean, we're talking wordpress plugins, so there are 4000 other possible things wrong
18:20<sirpengi>but if it's related to caching, then most likely the issue is the cache is too aggressive (you're serving customers a cached version when you shouldn't)
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18:33<davidweb_>sirpengi: yeah I think that's the problem. I'm going to turn caching off and see if that fixes it.
18:34<davidweb_>Otherwise I can just blame this on WooCommerce, and I'd be perfectly happy to do that.
18:34<davidweb_>My client just talked to me on the phone, and said some people would add an item to the cart, and before they checked out, the item would change in their cart.
18:34<davidweb_>and it changed to the item that the next customer purchased.
18:35<davidweb_>so it sounds like memcached (or something) is sharing the cache between multiple visitors.
18:35<rnowak>sounds like you should take the site offline until that bug is sorted out
18:35<davidweb_>not cool.
18:35<davidweb_>I don't even really know what the bug is...
18:36-!-seanh-corona [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:36<davidweb_>but i guess that's teh point
18:36<rnowak>if customers can see other customers' data... time to take it offline and fix it
18:36<@akerl>davidweb_: if your site is sharing caches of user-sensitive, thats a pretty severe problem
18:36<@akerl>user-sensitive data, even
18:37<rnowak>memcache is a key/value store, it doesn't do many decisions on its own, so it isn't memcache doing anything nasty, but whatever uses it
18:37-!-arthurfurlan [] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
18:37<davidweb_>nginx is using it
18:37<@akerl>is nginx making decisions on what to cache?
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18:38<rnowak>if you're using some nginx plugin to cache pages, it probably provides configuration capabilities on how to partition the caches, like on session key or whatever
18:38<rnowak>if you don't know what you're doing, I wouldn't just enable it and smile
18:39<davidweb_>rnowak: i'm definitely not smiling.
18:40<rnowak>you should: 1. take it offline until the issue is resolved, 2. tell your client that their customer data may have been leaked to other customers, and they should probably tell their customers that
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18:42<davidweb_>will do
18:43<davidweb_>now how do I troubleshoot this?
18:43<@akerl>What entity is managing the cache
18:44<rnowak>paste your nginx configuration for the vhost
18:44<@akerl>memcached *is* the cache. What entity is telling memcached to cache things, and deciding when cached things are served to people
18:46<dwfreed>nginx doesn't speak memcached
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18:46<davidweb_>then php5-fpm?
18:46<@akerl>o.O such useragent spam
18:47<davidweb_>akerl: better safe than sorry, right?
18:47<@akerl>pretty sure that's boning your performance
18:47-!-stan_theman [~stan_them@] has joined #linode
18:47-!-mode/#linode [+o stan_theman] by ChanServ
18:47<@akerl>A) nginx "if"s suck. B) It has to evaluate 900 regexes for each page request
18:47-!-stan_the2an [~stan_them@] has joined #linode
18:47<davidweb_>hot dayum, i need to remove that.
18:47<rnowak>it doesn't end... it gets even worse after the useragent spam
18:47<davidweb_>i added those to all my sites.
18:47<@akerl>davidweb_: What
18:48<@akerl>Pretty much every if check in that file ought to go away
18:48<davidweb_>b/c I was getting lots of spammers leaving comments, trying to brute force in, etc.
18:48-!-stan_the2an [~stan_them@] has quit []
18:48<@akerl>The "suspicious requests" as well
18:48<davidweb_>okay that's easy enough to fix.
18:48<@akerl>basically all of it
18:48<rnowak>"# Rules to block foreign characters in URLs"
18:48<rnowak>too good
18:49<davidweb_>the plugin told me to add it, so i added it. i'm a sucker for taking advice.
18:49<davidweb_>removing it now, though
18:49<@akerl>Also, you're using a whole pile of nginx ifs to decide whether to hit memcached
18:51<davidweb_>refined a bit.
18:52<@akerl>You pretty much want to remove everything below "# BEGIN iThemes Security"
18:53<davidweb_>but I do want to secure the site...
18:53<@akerl>Are those securing the site?
18:53<davidweb_>refusing access to the wordpress files used for spam attacks
18:53-!-memecake [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:54<davidweb_>what way _should_ i be securing the site?
18:54<rnowak>by knowledge, not by googling for random tutorials by mouthbreathers
18:54<davidweb_>and how do I get said knowledge without the mouthbreather tutorials? :)
18:55-!-chipotle [] has joined #linode
18:55<davidweb_>by the way, those settings are from the most popular wordpress+nginx security plugin. I'm not making excuses, but just saying it's probably messing a lot of people up if they're that bad.
18:55<rnowak>you educate yourself on how the things you want to secure work
18:55<kaf>:o rnowak
18:56<kaf>so sassy
18:56<davidweb_>well I recently bought a book on nginx: So I'll go through that to figure more out.
18:56<davidweb_>But nothing in my config points to caching errors, right?
18:57<@akerl>davidweb_: I'm pretty sure one of the following is happening: nginx ifs are boning the decision of "what to use the cache for", or you're not excluding things from the caching that you should be excluding
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18:59<rnowak>you may be able to modify the logging format to include the variable that decides if it should use cached resources or not, and then browse around as a logged in user and see if it does
18:59<@akerl>Worth noting: I don't use memcached, but I'm not sure I'd try to have nginx decide memcached-things via some ifs
19:00<davidweb_>akerl: do you suggest APC over memcached?
19:00<davidweb_>that plugin offers use of memcache, memcached, or apc
19:00<rnowak>the problem isn't with memcached
19:00<davidweb_>by your response, I'm guessing they both work in unison
19:01<@akerl>I was not making any statements about the viability of memcached. I was making a statement about having nginx do a couple comparisons to determine if a request was cacheable
19:01<davidweb_>do you mean I should just cache everything?
19:01<rnowak>if your application, or nginx in this case, perhaps, decides to utilise the caching store in a wrong way, it doesn't matter what the store is
19:01<@akerl>I mean that you should cache nothing until you can get it working in your staging environment in such a way that it caches only cacheable things
19:02<davidweb_>akerl: i'm more than okay with that.
19:04<davidweb_>so if I delete the @memcached section and turn off caching, should the rest of the config still work?
19:04<@akerl>The part of that config you actually want is only like 20 lines
19:05<@akerl>Also it doesn't look like you're redirecting 80 to 443 anywhere?
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19:07<davidweb_>that's handled within wordpress for the checkout page
19:07<@akerl>What about not the checkout page?
19:07<davidweb_>not ssl
19:07-!-seanh-corona [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:07<@akerl>That's not good
19:08<davidweb_>but the site does work if you type in https://url
19:08<davidweb_>akerl: should the whole site be forced ssl?
19:08<davidweb_>akerl: why? (I'm genuinely asking - trying to learn)
19:08<@akerl>Otherwise somebody just snoops my communication on the wire before I hit the checkout page
19:09<davidweb_>so do you think I shoudl force SSL on all of my sites on all pages?
19:09<davidweb_>I've read that that prevents caching from working (likely from a mouthbreather) - is that true?
19:09<davidweb_>well that's good news.
19:10<@akerl>Depends. It very well might break whatever crap caching the plugin is doing
19:10<davidweb_>the plugin just spits out code for me to put in nginx to tie in with memcached.
19:11<kaf>akerl: whats the interview process at linode like for technical positions?
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19:12<davidweb_>ugh - i just turned all caching off, and now the whole admin section of the site is even faster than it was before (and it was quite fast before).
19:12<davidweb_>Now i'm just frustrated that I've been led astray my mainstream plugin and popular tutorials.
19:13<dozn>popular != good
19:13<rnowak>it is important to do your own research on things, popular sadly does not imply sane or good
19:13<dozn>Popular usually means it's the easiest to use
19:13<davidweb_>that book I posted previously - does it look to be good enough, in your opinion?
19:13<rnowak>in less good news, anything but the front page on your site seems bonkered :>
19:16<davidweb_>rnowak: thanks for the heads up.
19:17<kaf>rnowak: whats you background
19:17<kaf>just curious
19:17<kaf>sorries. bein nosey
19:19<davidweb_>well looks like i'll be spending all day tomorrow reading that book
19:19<davidweb_>i hope it's not as bad as the tutorials i've found on the web.
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19:20<davidweb_>that'll work too. Thanks dozn
19:20<dozn>davidweb_: np, they seem decent
19:23<davidweb_>well, i'm off to start reading now.
19:23<davidweb_>thanks again folks, and hopefully I'll be back tomorrow to report at least the beginnings of success.
19:24<rnowak>good luck!
19:24-!-Craighton [~craighton@] has joined #linode
19:24<davidweb_>thanks. all of you on this channel _rock_
19:24<Craighton>you're welcome
19:24<Craighton>but I don't know why. I just joined
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19:27<dozn>Craighton: you're the best!
19:27<kaf>good talk
19:27<Craighton>aww shucks
19:27<dozn>And don't let anyone tell you otherwise
19:27<dozn>Because they're lying their asses off
19:28<dozn>kaf: The interview process begins with a blowjob, quite sure.
19:28-!-fezziwig [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:28<dozn>kaf: I'm available if you need practice =3
19:28-!-fezziwig [] has joined #linode
19:29<kaf>how do you know im not a large hairy greasy basquo who hasnt showered in weeks?
19:29<kaf>oh with meth teeth too
19:29<dozn>kaf: I'm not picky
19:29<dozn>kaf: Free loooveeee
19:29<kaf>yeah kk
19:30<dozn>kaf: How do you know I'm not worse off, and think meth teeth are attractive?
19:30<dozn>kaf: People have weird fetishes >_>
19:30<kaf>yes im aware
19:31<kaf>unfortunately giving blowjobs is not one of mine
19:31<dozn>kaf: Who said anything about giving?
19:31<kaf>but i am still very interested in hearing about the actual interview process at linode :3
19:31<dozn>Linode blows _you_ out of the water
19:31<kaf>well im a girl so unless you want to suck on a strapon or something
19:32<rnowak>you should find a different channel, or take it to pm, or preferably, a different network
19:32<kaf>i mean i can go get one if thats your thing
19:32<Perihelion>No please don't
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19:32<jed>I really appreciate that a woman shows up in #linode and dozn spends several minutes sexually harassing her
19:32<dzho>ok, this is what drove me from #rapidxen
19:32<kaf>id be happy to provide a silicon penis for your liking
19:33<jed>dozn: please fuck off, thanks
19:33<Perihelion>dzho: This...isn't normal ftr
19:33<Perihelion>kaf: Please take it somewhere else.
19:33<dzho>Perihelion: granted
19:33<kaf>wait a sec he started this haha
19:33<kaf>why am i being asked to leave
19:33<dozn>jed: This coming from the man who compliments people who act like complete assholes on the channel. Great double standard there, bud.
19:34<dozn>kaf: Don't worry about it, they don't have a sense of humour
19:34<jed>I'm fine with being an asshole
19:34<Perihelion>No one's asking you to leave, just to not talk about that here
19:34<jed>I'm not fine with you sexually harassing someone in public
19:34<kaf>kk thats fine
19:34<jed>or private, for that matter
19:34<kaf>im cool with it :D
19:34<jed>that's not the point
19:34<dzho>yeah, stay, just, remember this is ultimately something of a business community, for a company and it's customers.
19:35<kaf>o.o you are the one who asked me for a blowjob soooo
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19:35<rnowak>dzho vs dozn, kaf
19:35<kaf>oh snap
19:35<dozn>It happens a lot
19:35<kaf>so sorry
19:35<dzho>kaf: it'll be fine
19:35*dzho is not the police
19:36<rnowak>popo dzho
19:36<kaf>can i ask my question again?
19:36<jed>please do
19:36<kaf>whats the interview process like
19:36<kaf>now that ive made a royal impression
19:36<kaf>just curious of what someone could expect if they had a technical interview at linode
19:37*dzho will have to let those that know, say
19:37<Perihelion>You'll get asked some general technical questions to get a feel for your overall technical knowledge, you'll have to do a writing sample as well.
19:37<kaf>a writing sample?
19:37<Perihelion>Also: Apply and see ;D
19:37<kaf>thats interesting
19:37<kaf>what are they looking for with the writing?
19:37-!-anew [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:38<Perihelion>I don't know if it's anything specific
19:38<kaf>jsut seeing if you can articulate?
19:39<Perihelion>I suppose
19:39<kaf>one last question
19:39<Nightmare>is Perihelion one of the hiding staffers now
19:40<kaf>if i wanted to apply for a technical position this weekend, what is going to make my app really stand out? if you have say 4 apps from people who are all qualified for the position, what is going to make one get an interview over another for linode?
19:40<dzho>who is interviewing who, when? ;-)
19:41<kaf>linode interviewing a hypothetical candidate for a technical linux position
19:42<dzho>you know, hypothetically
19:42-!-lionmac [~lionmac@] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
19:42<dozn>literally, hypothetically?
19:43<kaf>no this is hyporthtical
19:43<kaf>im not applying to linode
19:43<@jchen>advice for your theoretical friend?
19:43<kaf>its actually for a friend
19:43<kaf>he's bloody brilliant
19:43<kaf>and is dying to work for you guys
19:43<kaf>and since i hang out here
19:43<kaf>i just thought id ask
19:43<Perihelion>Like anything, talk about what you've done that qualifies you for the role you're applying for
19:44<kaf>kk. well look out for that special application this weekend
19:44<kaf>it will sparkle
19:44<kaf>and scream "hire me"
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19:46-!-dozn [~dozn@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe6e:a9a4] has quit [Quit: Walking towards the greener grass]
19:46<kaf>sorry again abotu that guys
19:46-!-SuPaJeRm [superjerm8@] has joined #linode
19:46<kaf>was...poor judgement
19:46<kaf>i get a bit defensive when
19:46<kaf>i get that kinda stuff on linode
19:46<kaf>but i put myself in that position soooo
19:47-!-dozn [~dozn@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe6e:a9a4] has joined #linode
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19:49<dzho>I like that #linode is so easygoing
19:49<dzho>I think it'll survive.
19:49-!-Cruiser` is now known as DrCruiser
19:50*jchen cracks whip
19:50<dzho>rnowak: you missed a buying opportunity
19:50<dzho>that could probably have done with less URL
19:52<dzho>bah, they don't say anything about their auction flopping at
19:59-!-v0lksman_ [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:59<jed>kaf: you're fine. promise
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19:59<jed>my issue is not with you
20:00<Perihelion>I have an issue with jed.
20:00<@stan_theman>I have a jed with issue
20:00<Perihelion>I mean, that's basically status quo
20:00<kaf>thanks jed :D
20:01<kaf>fine enough for you to definitely take a look at my friends application personally?
20:01*kaf pushes it
20:01<jed>I'm a former employee
20:01<kaf>who would take a look personally
20:01<kaf>it would not be a waste of their time
20:01<jed>I'd say go through the normal process and don't push for exceptions
20:01<Perihelion>HR once the person submits it through the job site
20:01-!-ireheart [] has joined #linode
20:01<kaf>ok i will stop pushing it
20:02<kaf>lest i leave a bad taste in your mouth
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20:21-!-petris [~petris@2607:5300:60:5475:64c2:903:2ab1:7d43] has quit [Quit: Bye]
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20:36<linbot>New news from forum: Advice / Opinions wanted on upgrading in General Discussion <>
20:39-!-seanh-corona [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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21:05*James pushes Perihelion
21:06-!-fezziwig [~fezziwig@] has joined #linode
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21:08*dozn updates James
21:09<dozn>eselect news list
21:09<dozn>eselect James list
21:12<dozn>Attempting to drink SunnyD when you're older makes it seem like liquid candy.
21:12<dozn>s/like/like it's
21:15<kaf>it is liquid candy
21:15<kaf>put some tequila in
21:15<dozn>true 'nuff
21:15<dozn>I don't drink =(
21:15<kaf>oh ok
21:15<kaf>well if you did
21:15<dozn>I could see them mixing well
21:15<kaf>you could do that
21:15<dozn>except I'd puke twice as easily, heh
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21:20<linbot>New news from forum: Advice / Opinions wanted on upgrading in General Discussion <>
21:20-!-m3nd3s [] has joined #linode
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21:29<James>forum has new header! :D
21:32<NickA>who is going to be at laracon for Linode next week?
21:32-!-Dedalo [~Dedalo@] has joined #linode
21:32<NickA>akerl jchen i know you guy guys are watching
21:33-!-zoid_ [~ari@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:33<NickA>you know whos on the schedule to go to laracon?
21:34<NickA>its like 10min from my new office
21:34<NickA>ill stop in
21:36<sirpengi>what's laracon, is that for tomb raider fans?
21:36<sirpengi>oh, for laravel framework
21:36<NickA>sirpengi: youd hit it
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21:58<NickA>mikegrb, jchen: you guys should come up.
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22:27<James>NickA: isn't Perihelion going enough for you? :P
22:28<NickA>James: i will admit, shes more than i can handle. :)
22:29<NickA>but she rides motorcycles so thats a +100 in my book.
22:29<NickA>especially on an f800
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22:38<imikay_>I am using one of my Linode server as VPN, just upgraded it last night, after that the connecting speed goes terribly slow
22:39<NickA>what have you done to troubleshoot?
22:39<@akerl>imikay_: What kernel?
22:39<imikay_>Ubuntu 11.04 64bit
22:40<imikay_>In Tokyo data center
22:40<@akerl>Yea, what kernel version
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22:40<NickA>and did you troubleshoot at all?
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22:40<imikay_>not yet
22:40<linbot>New news from forum: [Help] Unable to View Website, Forbidden in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
22:40<imikay_>maybe later
22:42<imikay_>I just tested at home and office, same result
22:43<@akerl>imikay_: Does it get better if you reboot into 3.13.7?
22:43-!-nazi_zombie_living_on_moon [~nazi_zomb@] has joined #linode
22:44<imikay_>ok, I will have a try
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22:47<davidwebb> - can anyone tell me what's causing this error?
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22:48<NickA>what are you doing?
22:48<davidwebb>trying to remove memcached calls from the nginx vhost
22:49<davidwebb>and none of the site will load
22:50<davidwebb>here's the vhost
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22:51<@akerl>The log from whatever the upstream is will likely make a lot more sense
22:51<davidwebb>it's php -
22:51<davidwebb>doesn't look very informative...
22:52<@akerl>368.657076 o.O
22:52<@akerl>wtf is your PHP script doing?
22:52<davidwebb>no idea.
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22:52<@akerl>I'd suggest finding out
22:52<davidwebb>all I know is i turned off the memcached plugin and removed references from the vhost, and now none of the pages will load
22:53<davidwebb>vhost before -, vhost after -
22:54<@akerl>Yea, go figure out what the PHP script that's hitting is doing
22:54<davidwebb>I will pay $50 to anyone who can help me get this up and running in under 10 minutes.
22:55<synapt>davidwebb: Judging by the "upstream failed" errors above, I think your php-fpm is segfaulting
22:55<synapt>might want to try and debug/backtrace
22:55<davidwebb>It only happened exactly after I updated the vhost.
22:55<NickA>davidwebb: maybe undo whatever you did before it broke?
22:55<davidwebb>so it must be directly related to those changes. When I changed it back though, it dint' work, becuase I already deactivated the memcached plugin within wordpress
22:56<@akerl>NickA: He can't, because what he fixed was caching that showed user info to other users
22:56<synapt>davidwebb: Did you restart php-fpm or just nginx with those conf changes?
22:56<davidwebb>just nginx
22:56<davidwebb>i'll try php
22:56<@akerl>davidwebb: If anybody tells you they can fix this in 10 minutes without knowing what the problem is, they are not worth your money
22:56<davidwebb>still doesn't work
22:56<NickA>akerl: take a walk on the wild side.
22:56<gparent>it'd totally be worth 10 mins of attempts, though
22:57<@akerl>Nivex: That's why my car runs on Node.js
22:57<davidwebb>just fixed itself
22:57<davidwebb>now that's strange.
22:57<NickA>akerl: haha
22:57<synapt>Your php-fpm probably just finished restarting is why
22:57<@akerl>You mean right after you restarted php-fpm?
22:57<davidwebb>well about 15 seconds after I restarted php-fpm
22:57<synapt>(it's gotta go through and kill all the kids after all)
22:58<davidwebb>okay. looks like synapt is the winner.
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22:58<davidwebb>jebus that freaked me out.
22:58<gparent>akerl missed out on $50
22:58<davidwebb>synapt pm me your paypal email. i have no btc.
22:58<synapt>Funny thing is, I usually don't even work with nginx, but my first response is always "Restart php-fpm!"
22:58<gparent>that's awesome
22:58<synapt>lighttpd does similar things sometimes, for some reason something fudges up in how it offhands requests
22:58<davidwebb>wonder why all my other sites still worked, serving content...
22:59<synapt>because that's how the httpd and php-fpm handoff with each other
22:59<synapt>you prob had a broken child somewhere
22:59<synapt>which just happened to be that particular host
22:59<synapt>or well broken children, under a different pool for that vhost
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23:00<davidwebb>well the interesting part is that i have my updated vhost now - so i wonder if it will break often now that i've removed the caching...
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23:00<synapt>I wouldn't think so, but if it does again, just always give php-fpm a kick first :P
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23:02<davidwebb>so question - if I pay $100/month for managed Linode, do they tweak my php-fpm / nginx to perfection?
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23:05<NickA>you set it up the right way and we/they monitor for any problems. Linode doesnt architect your entire environment.
23:05<davidwebb>good to know.
23:05<NickA>its not possible to set it up for you because they dont know what you are planning to do.
23:06<MaliutaLap>people have funny ideas about what "managed" means
23:06<davidwebb>so back to what i need to fix, akerl you mentioned that 358s looks wrong - does that mean a php script is running that long?
23:07<davidwebb>and is there a way to look at the history of a pid that's already ended?
23:08<MaliutaLap>davidwebb: not really, turn on php debugging stuff and try to follow that
23:08<NickA>MaliutaLap: i worked in "fully managed" before working at Linode. that line was pushed on a daily basis.
23:08<NickA>i dont work at Linode any more but i thought it was a lot more logical.
23:08<MaliutaLap>davidwebb: is it a custom script or part of a package
23:08<davidwebb>it's a bunch of wordpress sites, so it must be a wordpress thing.
23:08<davidwebb>i'm very light on plugins though, so not really sure what could be running it.
23:08<imikay_>akerl, much better now, but still feels laggy when browsing twitter, Facebook and Gmail
23:09<MaliutaLap>NickA: I used to work for ISP's and then "hosting" companies ... people always thought that us hosting a server meant that we would provide the hardware, configure it, and admin it
23:09<MaliutaLap>NickA: I generally told them to go away
23:10<NickA>MaliutaLap: yyyup. working managed it was like, "i cant install it through the package manager. it's your responsibility."
23:11<NickA>linode is a lot more hands-off which i would prefer from both an admin and customer point of view
23:11<MaliutaLap>yeah, I agree
23:12<rnowak>managed is an overloaded word, should've went with something else :>
23:12<MaliutaLap>The last hosting place I worked was running plesk/virtuozo ... the boss used to "update" the images on servers I had customised, getting the package DB back into a working state took some doing
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23:16<NickA>yeah i hear that. i used to do cpanel/virtuozzo. it wasnt bad once you learned what was actually going on. few people take the time with cpanel though.. i actually like it now.
23:17<MaliutaLap>cpanel is only marginally better than plesk
23:18<MaliutaLap>but the people that wrote virtuozo also wrote plesk, then they put HPC over it ... dear god is that a bad setup
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23:20<NickA>yeah.. i like cpanel now that i know what's going on. the whole virtuozzo/plesk thing is kinda weird though.
23:20<NickA>virtuozzo especially
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23:20<MaliutaLap>plesk still has qmail under the hood
23:21<MaliutaLap>and the vitruozzo disk image management stuff is a joke
23:21<MaliutaLap>I hate that hypervisor more than anything
23:21<NickA>yeah im glad i dont have to deal with that anymore
23:21<MaliutaLap>well it's up there on the list anyhow
23:23<NickA>nowadays im diggin oVirt. iit pretty solid.
23:23<MaliutaLap>I'm heavily sceptical of an php I didn't write - I've seen some really crap code from "web developers"
23:23<NickA>that whole zero downtime migration is fantastic.
23:24<MaliutaLap>Right now I'm not doing any virtualisation that isn't desktop based, so using vbox for most of it
23:25<MaliutaLap>although things like KVM/QEMU and Xen have come along way for things like live migration
23:25<NickA>the last few days ive been working on ipxe. i tried it on vbox but they are weird as hell. installed vmware and everything was solid.
23:25<MaliutaLap>I went off vmware a while back
23:26<NickA>i think oVirt is the upstream package for KVM.
23:26<NickA>could be wrong though
23:27<MaliutaLap>KVM is in kernel stuff, be surprised if it had an upstream
23:27<MaliutaLap>and a quick search says it is
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23:29<MaliutaLap>"oVirt is powered by the Open Source you know - KVM on Linux."
23:30<MaliutaLap>"Live migration of VMs from one hypervisor to another" <-- sounds kewl
23:30<NickA>yeah its really cool
23:30<coxn>NickA: oVirt is the upstream for RHEV, which is a suite including a hypervisor appliance using KVM
23:30<coxn>Xen has had live migration for a long time
23:31<MaliutaLap>it's site says it's similar to vsphere
23:31<NickA>coxn: thats what im thinking of. thanks for the clarification.
23:31<coxn>and in fact has had it for unlike CPUs significantly longer than KVM-based solutions
23:31<MaliutaLap>so I am assuming it's better than the stupid vmware crap
23:31<NickA>MaliutaLap: shame it's the standard these days.
23:31<NickA>vmware i mean.
23:32*MaliutaLap kicks that kind of "standard" in the balls
23:32<MaliutaLap>is it an RFC/IEEE standard??? no? then it's not ;)
23:32<NickA>i agree but try to find a job these days without it.
23:33<MaliutaLap> .doc[x] is "standard" too, isn't it ;)
23:33<gparent>6200 pages of it
23:33<NickA>god damn microsoft.
23:33<gparent>might be more by now
23:33<MaliutaLap>NickA: amen
23:33<MaliutaLap>damn them to hell
23:35<Nivex>I bet Google's loving the Java "standard" right now
23:35<MaliutaLap>ROFL - Java and "standard"
23:35<NickA>google sucks just as much.
23:35<MaliutaLap>they have gone that way
23:36<synapt>There's a "Standard" to Java?
23:36<gparent>java is so standard that I need to use specific versions of the JRE to reach some cisco devices/versions
23:36<MaliutaLap>pity Sun got bought out
23:36<gparent>then agian that could be cisco's coding
23:36<MaliutaLap>gparent: why would you need java to access cisco kit?
23:36<NickA>id rather deal with MS nonsense than Google's and I work in Google's building.
23:37<gparent>MaliutaLap: familiar with cisco at all?
23:37<NickA>fuck those guys
23:37<MaliutaLap>NickA: so you're perfectly positioned to implode them
23:37<gparent>MaliutaLap: Basically they have some devices that are web-only, and much cheaper
23:37<NickA>MaliutaLap: or steal their breakfast if nothing else. :)
23:37<gparent>you can launch commands usually through some http URLs that are hidden, but anyway, if you try to use the "real" web interface, there can be compatibility problems
23:37<gparent>and yes I much prefer just using ssh
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23:38<MaliutaLap>gparent: like the small business switch I have, whose web interface is "odd" but doesn't have java in it
23:38<gparent>the small business ones can have those interfaces
23:38<Nivex>if you can't do everything over SNMP, they've done it wrong
23:38<MaliutaLap>gparent: for anything significant ssh+IOS is better
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23:38<MaliutaLap>Nivex: if you can do "everything" via snmp they've done it wrong
23:38<gparent>MaliutaLap: yeah I know this
23:38<gparent>I much prefer it
23:39<MaliutaLap>gparent: me too
23:40<MaliutaLap>someone needs to donate some Juniper kit to me so I can have poke at it
23:40<gparent>hopefully we'll have a large cisco donation rather soon, ccant give much more details than that
23:40<gparent>but looking forward with playing with the devices
23:41<MaliutaLap>well I've been able to deal with cisco kit for about 15 years now (despite never getting certified) - and the J stuff looks interesting, at least from the outside
23:41<gparent>ive heard good things about many non-cisco companies but I haven't had the resources/opportunites to mess with them
23:41<gparent>I work even further from the hardware than I used to
23:42<NickA>MaliutaLap: i have no degrees or certifications. i dont fee like ive ever been held back.
23:43<NickA>also, as far as non-cisco stuff goes, Vyatta is solid. all open source too.
23:43<MaliutaLap>NickA: I never finished my degrees, and vendor certs are basically useless pieces of paper
23:43<MaliutaLap>NickA: that said the training I did get studying computer science at uni was a big help
23:43<MaliutaLap>certs are almost useless in the sysadmin world
23:45<NickA>yeah. pretty much everything ive done has been self-taught. i did take a class on cisco when the state paid for it.. i wouldnt have done it otherwise though. realistically i could have downloaded packet tracer and figured it out on my own.
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---Logclosed Sat May 10 00:00:07 2014