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#linode IRC Logs for 2014-07-07

---Logopened Mon Jul 07 00:00:21 2014
---Daychanged Mon Jul 07 2014
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00:00<linbot>New news from forum: SUBSTRING call used in the Postfix/Dovecot/MySQL guide in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
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00:09<patrickn>comcast and my linode are not getting along well this evening
00:09<retro|blah>Please tell us more
00:09<m0unds>patrickn: fremont?
00:09<patrickn>well I'm getting a complete tour of the country right now
00:10<patrickn>again for the 2nd day this week...
00:10<m0unds>couple people mentioned goofy routing yesterday comcast -> fremont
00:10<patrickn>I might have been one of them
00:10<m0unds>oh, could be
00:10<Peng>DigitalOcean was having fun with Comcast last week, I think
00:11<patrickn>san jose --> oakland --> los angeles --> san jose --> ashburn virginia --> los angeles --> palo alto --> San Jose --> Los Angeles --> Palo Alto --> San Jose -- Fremont.
00:12<patrickn>and occasionally onewilshire ca which I don't know where that is.
00:12<Peng>It's a data center.
00:13<James>lol what
00:13<James>who thinks that routing is sane
00:13<Peng>You could file a ticket with Linode, who can call Comcast's NOC, which is probably just an answering machine that plays laughter for five minutes and then says "mailbox full".
00:13<patrickn>it's not worth it
00:14<patrickn>and it's not linode's responsibility afaik
00:14<Peng>D'you have Comcast v6?
00:14<dzho>wait, that was for packets to get from san jose to fremont?
00:14<patrickn>it's taking a 7.3kb image 3.72 secs to load on nginx
00:14<patrickn>yes v6
00:14<James>dzho: yu
00:15<Peng>Is the v6 route any good?
00:15<James>their bgp is fooked
00:15<patrickn>how can i test that?
00:15<Peng>mtr? traceroute6?
00:15<James>mtr -6
00:15<James>and mre -4
00:15<patrickn>i guess mtr defaults to mtr -4?
00:15<Peng>patrickn: no
00:15<linbot>James: [mtr-tokyo] 12.|-- 2607:f0d0:2:4::2:3 0.0% 3 39.5 39.8 39.1 40.9 0.7 -- 13.|-- 2600:3c00::32 0.0% 3 38.9 39.1 38.8 39.5 0.0 -- see for full mtr
00:15<James>patrickn: defaults to whatever gai.conf defaults to
00:16<James>(THAT'S not tokyo)
00:17<linbot>Peng: [mtr-atlanta] 10.|-- 0.0% 3 58.3 58.2 58.1 58.3 0.0 -- 11.|-- 0.0% 3 58.0 58.1 58.0 58.2 0.0 -- see for full mtr
00:17<Peng>Tokyo indeed
00:17<patrickn>i run via /usr/local/sbin/mtr not sure how to pass -6?
00:17<James>that indeed says
00:18<Peng>patrickn: "/usr/local/sbin/mtr -6"
00:18*Peng shrugs
00:18<Peng>/usr/local/sbin ain't in your PATH?
00:19<patrickn>Failed to resolve host: nodename nor servname provided, or not known i guess my ipv6 isn't right then
00:19<Peng>James: You might wanna take down mtr-"tokyo"?
00:19<Peng>patrickn: Or is IPv4-only perhaps
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00:20<patrickn> listen 443 ssl spdy ipv6; should work
00:20<James>woo, had a vps at another provider down for a day
00:20<James>didn't care
00:20<James>does anyone know of a good service to alert me if a host is down?
00:20<Peng>patrickn: I was referring to the DNS records, not Nginx stuff, and I don't think "ipv6" is a listen flag.
00:21<patrickn>yup ill check that one out
00:21<Peng>""'s DNS configuration is quite a separate matter from Comcast routing issues, though
00:22<patrickn>it's not related to this issue, ipv4 shouldn't be bad
00:22<patrickn>but if it continues to be a problem im going to need to get rid of my linodes :(
00:22<Peng>get rid of your Comcast
00:22<patrickn>im getting google fiber soon
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00:24<patrickn>what are you guys's opinions on linode DNS is it good? I've been using dns
00:25<James>linode dns has less downtime and supports more DNSSEC
00:25<patrickn>what about compared to cloudflare dns only or route53?
00:26<James>does cloudflare even run a dns-only option?
00:26<James>linode lets you set up slave zones
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00:26<Nivex>I never had any major problems with HE, but it did feel a bit... quirky.
00:26<patrickn>yeah you don't need the "performance" turned on. it worked well for a few domains.
00:26<James>oh cool
00:27<patrickn>apparently it's the #1 or #2 best dns in the world i forget which stats
00:27<Peng>Route 53 is IPv4-only. And I hate their API!
00:27<Peng>It's probably great though otherwise.
00:28<patrickn>it's AWS :) what's not to hate lol
00:28<patrickn>well ill migrate a domain over to linode and give it a test
00:28<James>i use where i don't use linode
00:29<Zigara>is mikegrb a bot?
00:29<Nivex>mikegrb is a hybrid
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00:30<Nivex>lol is futile. you will eat cake.
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00:30<@mikegrb>mmm cake
00:30<Zigara>that's something
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02:10*penguin slaps Asad around a bit with a large fishbot
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02:34<Peng>web IRC clients attract interesting people
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02:38<dcraig>peng, identify
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02:45<Peng>dcraig: negative
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03:15<gparent>dwfreed: everything crashed and burned during your absence!
03:16*linbot exterminates Peng
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03:23*Peng crashes and burns
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04:22*learner halts but doesn't catch fire and moves on
04:23<learner>i wish i was in matrix
04:24<learner>i could load books into my brain like loading files onto a computer
04:24<learner>been reading the modern perl book since yesterday and i'm only half done
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04:46<gparent>it's not a r ace
04:48<Peng>it's inefficient
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05:39<learner>hey guys is this safe: it's responding to json and xml, wouldn't that make it unsafe?
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05:44<James>setting up MariaDB Galera Cluster for the lolz
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05:57<James>338GB Used, 1666GB Remaining, 2004GB Quota
05:58<HoopyCat>so i'm randomly looking at this transportation company's events calendar:
05:58<HoopyCat>there's this event, "Fabulous Fridays".... i have no idea what it entails, except you leave at 6pm and get back at 2am
06:24<praetorian>why so early?
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06:52<learner>HoopyCat, prolly a vampire party
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07:52<_bing_>hi there, im having problems logging in to my account, the two factor authentication doesnt accept the generated token (ivalid token), can somebody help me please?
07:52<@akerl>Make sure the time on your device is correct
07:55<_bing_>there was a 1min difference in mobile device, it solved the issue, thanks aker
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07:58<nolan_>Hi! Pre-sales question please. I just want to test the waters with a $10/m account. Would I be able to install a mumble server and socket server on this?
07:59-!-brenden [~brenden@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:59<Peng>Sure. What's Socket?
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08:00<nolan_>for node.js I think (I'm not actually doing it myself)
08:00<@akerl>nolan_: Linode gives you a Linux server and full root access, you can install whatever you'd like
08:00-!-_bing_ [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
08:01<nolan_>Right ok that's perfect, I'm half asleep but needed that info :P thanks!
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08:27<kuzetsa>I only just found out there's a stack called MEAN
08:27<kuzetsa>that's so much cooler than LAMP :)
08:28<@akerl>Mongo nginx Apache Node?
08:28<kuzetsa>hhell no
08:28<kuzetsa>mongo express angular node
08:28<kuzetsa>also, that's confusing
08:29<kuzetsa>why would you have both nginx and apache
08:29<kuzetsa>express is like the httpd (it's node-based) and angular is vaguely like the php might be in LAMP
08:30<Zigara>whats better than 2 webservers!?
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08:30<kuzetsa>well I love cherokee (my grandmother is cherokee) and it's a damned good httpd as well :)
08:31<Zigara>is it that good?
08:31<Zigara>I've not used it myself
08:31<kuzetsa>it's nicer than lighttpd for static
08:31<Zigara>first time I've heard that
08:31<Zigara>I moved from lighttpd to nginx myself
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08:35<kuzetsa>zigara -- (from ... for static content, cherokee has good scalability performance charactaristics)
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08:36*synapt is quite happy with lighttpd
08:36<synapt>static or otherwise
08:37-!-chipotle [] has joined #linode
08:37<synapt>though I find that part of the benchmark between nginx and lighttpd to be interesting where nginx seems to have an oddly far better increase in dual cores than the others
08:38<Zigara>though its from 2012, could be some improvements in those areas by now
08:38<kuzetsa> <-- another chart for showing requests per second (from this other benchmark -- ... comparing varnish cache as well)
08:39<kuzetsa>oh... well yeah, that benchmark is even older then :)
08:39<Zigara>I'd be interested to see recent benchs for sure, but that is quite interesting
08:39<Zigara>it'd be nice to see if they've improved things (lighttpd, nginx, etc)
08:41<kuzetsa>g-wan is closed source and I've never heard of anyone who actually uses it
08:43<kuzetsa>but I find it interesting that it did so much better than everything else in benchmarks
08:44<kuzetsa>come to think of it, isn't lightspeed closed as well?
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08:46<James>woo! galera!
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08:46<Zigara>kuzetsa: they recently opened it up
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08:49<baconplease>morning friends. ive got a theoretical question. how many assuming i have two medium sized linodes (let's say 20gb ram each), no services running on each, how many parallel TCP connections can i expect to maintain between the two, in terms of order of magnitude
08:49<kuzetsa>James: is that site ipv6-only or something? won't load for me (my ISP still hasn't deployed anything other than ipv4)
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08:50<baconplease>assuming the tcp connections are kept active via a small piece of data being passed back and forth every second, something requiring minimal cpu
08:50<kuzetsa>baconplease: if it's just TCP and not http or any other sort of protocol backend, millions should be fine.
08:50<baconplease>cool thanks!
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08:52<kuzetsa>that was a weird question
08:52<kuzetsa>all theoretical and whatnot
08:53<kuzetsa>anyway, I'm pretty sure I'll be using MEAN stack to do all my heavy lifting & cherokee or something else tuned for static for the non-dynamic stuff :)
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08:56<James>nginx for statuc
08:59<kuzetsa>nuh uh, I don't wanna --- nginx chewed my slippers and made my puppy feel unwelcome and run away :(
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09:00<SDr>kuzetsa, your experiences with nginx are remarkable. may I know the fork/version with which I can repro those... feature? :)
09:01<kuzetsa>I've actually never used nginx, I'm mostly just avoiding it because the learning curve for such a thing doesn't seem "worth it" compared to other thigns I could do with my time.
09:04<kuzetsa> <-- 502 error. That's pretty meta and awesome :)
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09:04<kuzetsa>oh wait, that site is powered by nginx :(
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09:07<Zigara>kuzetsa: that just means their backend is down
09:07<Zigara>also nginx 1.2.1 is OLD as shit
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09:22<Peng>Zigara: Standard Debian version.
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09:26<Zigara>Peng: time to upgrade to jessie!
09:29<James>Zigara: set up the nginx repo
09:30<Zigara>actually yes that is a better idea
09:30<Zigara>I generally do that
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09:35<Terabyte>hey, if you rebuild a server, will the private networking details be automatically configured or is this something that has to be done manually/via stackscripts?
09:35<Peng>the latter
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09:42<Terabyte>is there anyway to get it to be automatic? I just find it strange that i'm having to tell the server what it's private IP is, yet i don't have to tell it what it's public ip is
09:43<Terabyte>it makes the stackscript that little bit more "server-specific"
09:43<Peng>Terabyte: It uses DHCP to find hte public IP.
09:43<Terabyte>ah, presumably that wouldn't work for local then?
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09:45<@akerl>It has nothing to do with whether the IP is private, DHCP just won't give you two IPs
09:48<Peng>Is that a limitation of DHCP the protocol or Linode's DHCP setup?
09:49<@akerl>Pretty sure it's a limitation of DHCP in general, but I'm admittedly not a DHCP wizard
09:50<Zimsky>apparently no
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09:57<Terabyte>ok i've got 2 hosts with private networking supposedly setup. i can ping one from the other, but not the other way round. let me get some logs
09:57<Terabyte>(they've both been rebooted)
09:58<@akerl>Sounds like you didn't set up private networking on both of them
09:58<@akerl>What datacenter are they in, and what are the 2 IPs?
09:58<Terabyte>they're in different datacenters
09:58<Terabyte>one's in CA one's in london
09:58<@akerl>"private network"
09:58<James>private only works in one dc
09:58<Terabyte>oh :(
09:59<Terabyte>i thought there was some magic going cross datacenters
09:59<Terabyte>nm then :)
09:59-!-cnanakos is now known as cnanakos_away
09:59<James>nup :)
09:59<@akerl>Pretty sure it was you here the other day and we said this
09:59<Terabyte>nope wasn't me
10:00-!-d1g1t is now known as sandeep
10:01<Peng>Such magic does exist, but Linode doesn't use it.
10:02<Terabyte>so presumably the point of the private network is to avoid being charged for bandwidth for internal chatter, rather than enabling cross datacenter chit chat itself
10:02<Terabyte>makes sense :)
10:02<Peng>By the way, internal chatter is free over IPv6.
10:02<Peng>Even on public IPv6 IPs.
10:02<Peng>Obviously external IPv6 chatter is not free.
10:02<Terabyte>so linode datacenter1 to linode datacenter2 is free even if public?
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10:03<sandeep>if more than one datacenters are involved, its not free
10:03<Terabyte>just not datacenter1 to some internet user
10:03<Peng>Terabyte: No.
10:03<Peng>Terabyte: By "internal chatter" I meant "intra-data center"
10:03<Terabyte>ah kk
10:04<Terabyte>yeah that makes more sense
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10:25<nate>Anyone lurking that has an fedora 20 linode?
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10:27<Nivex>I don't, but I've got an F20 VM at home
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10:30*nate is just trying to confirm an issue where his 1.0.1e-38.fc20 is flagging vulnerable to heartbleed
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10:30<nate>and unfortunately I only have one linode on F20 at the moment
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10:42<linbot>New news from kernels: 3.15.4-x86_64-linode45 <> || 3.15.4-x86-linode64 <> || Latest 64 bit (3.15.3-x86_64-linode44) <> || Latest 32 bit (3.15.3-x86-linode63) <> || 3.15.3-x86_64-linode44 <> |
10:42<linbot>New news from forum: Oracle virtualbox does not book downloaded Linode image in General Discussion <>
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11:08<cem_>is there anybody turkish speaking?
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12:04<Eugene>Did somebody say "new kernels" ?
12:05<Eugene>Oh. :-(
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12:37<gparent>Eugene: debian said new kernel if it makes you feel better
12:37<gparent>it even said we should switch to .6
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12:48<Emmy>Does the billing start when i sign up or when i want it to begin?
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12:49<@caker>interesting concept
12:49<gparent>I was about to answer then noticed he already left
12:49<gparent>and yeah lmao
12:49<gparent>caker can I be billed in 5 years I swear ill pay back
12:50<Peng>you can be billed in 5 years, and every year before that too
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13:09<James>caker: can i never be billed?
13:09<James>you know, just randomly draw on my card
13:10<Peng>like, draw pictures of unicorns?
13:10<James>Peng: checked my dnssec link?
13:10<buhman>Query to for timed out or failed
13:10<James>that one is shit
13:10<buhman>fix it
13:11<buhman>you're missing a green checkbox
13:11<Peng>I can draw a green checkbox
13:11<buhman>James: verisign says you need to turn it off and on again
13:12<James>subdelegating \o/
13:13<James>powerdns on a galera backed mysql backend
13:13<James>for lulz
13:14<James>welp, sleep
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13:23<James>be nice if linode could use the 40gbit to the hosts for something useful, like a SAN
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13:43<zhakkas>anyone here
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13:45<MKs>some body known what processors have linode on their nodes ( ghz )
13:45<MKs>I need that information for known what server buy :)
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13:46<gparent>Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v2
13:46<gparent>on mine
13:46<MKs>thanks sandep and gparent very much :)
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14:30<dwfreed>gparent: good :P
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14:56<gparent>dwfreed: I also did manage to verify that my file server didn't totally break while you were idle
14:56<gparent>it still won't boot but the data is readable so far
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15:04<Cromulent>is there a soft limit for the number of linodes you can spin up at anyone time? I've got an app that uses the Linode API to spin nodes and don't want to hit a limit that stops me from spinning up more as it would cause quite a few problems for my app
15:04<linbot>New news from forum: Help With Python, uWSGI and New Relic in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
15:06<Cromulent>akerl: ah missed that - 75 per hour seems like a reasonable limit - is that a hard limit or can it be changed in the future for an account if it ceases to be enough?
15:08<EyePulp>would the 14.04 image have a fixed /etc/resolv.conf instead of using resolvconf to generate it by chance? sudo resolvconf -u seems to get an error with (I think) a fairly vanilla 14.04 node
15:08<gparent>After that an email is automatically sent to caker and negociations begin to acquire one of the six Linode datacenters.
15:09<dwfreed>Cromulent: hard limit
15:09<dwfreed>EyePulp: yes
15:09<Cromulent>dwfreed: ah shame
15:09<Cromulent>one of the advantages of EC2 in that case I guess
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15:11<EyePulp>dwfreed: So will manual mods to the file remain through reboots, or will it get re-written (if you know)
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15:11<trippeh>I set up my resolvers in /etc/network/interfaces and let resolvconf manage stuff.
15:11<dwfreed>EyePulp: yes, everything will persist
15:12<trippeh>makes it easier to plop in say unbound for dnssec validation.
15:12<dwfreed>trippeh: not really; it's still just one edit, you're just changing which file is edited
15:12<trippeh>dwfreed: resolvconf also manages where unbound sends its quieries
15:13<dwfreed>yeah, that's a file it should not be touching
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15:14<Ankit>can you guys help in installing Mongo cluster and RabbitMQ cluster
15:15<gparent>depends at what rate
15:15<EyePulp>just out of curiosity, is there a benefit to the disabling of the resolvconf's default behavior? Is that a Linode decision or some generally known trick of the trade?
15:16<learner>3/4th done with the modern perl book
15:16<@akerl>EyePulp: Change is scary, yo
15:16<learner>i feel tired
15:16<Cromulent>Ankit: I'm sure there are numerous tutorials out there - otherwise I guess you could always pay someone
15:16<Cromulent>learner: are you a perl convert now then? :)
15:16<trippeh>dwfreed: for the common case its nice. just apt-get install unbound and resolv.conf gets redirected to it, and unbound gets set up to send queries to your upstream servers automaticly.
15:17<learner>Cromulent, too soon to say, i'm learning the ropes for now
15:17<EyePulp>akerl: change in which direction - distros changing over time, or linode changing distro behavior?
15:17<Cromulent>learner: fair enough
15:17<@akerl>EyePulp: People don't like resolvconf because it is a change from The Good Old Way
15:17<learner>i'd say i'm at adept level right now, can't decide until i reach expert level
15:17<gparent>Personally I managed my DNS through systemd
15:17<@akerl>My personal opinion is that the distro's convention should be followed for that distro
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15:18<Cromulent>learner: it takes a good while to become an expert in anything
15:18<trippeh>dwfreed: and then dhcp, ppp etc communicates with unbound seemlessly.
15:18<gparent>learner: we can talk in 10 years then
15:18<Eugene>curl > /etc/hosts
15:18<gparent>(And then some )
15:18<learner>i'd say it'll take me 3-4 weeks at least to become an expert in this, i'll need to log in at least 300 hours of coding
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15:19<EyePulp>akerl: heh - being fairly ignorant of DNS, I'm stumbling through it via SO and other googling to try and resolve (no pun intended) some app level issues. So my 14.04 searches lead me to resolvconf, which leads to me finding the linode alterations. Mysteries abound. =)
15:19<Cromulent>learner: 4 weeks to become an expert in perl? No chance
15:19<gparent>become an expert at the definition of what is an expert
15:19<learner>Cromulent, there's a difference between becoming an expert in perl and writing perl in expert level
15:20<learner>i didn't say i'm gonna become an expert in all aspects of perl
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15:21<Cromulent>I've been programming in Python for over 2 years doing hours of programming on various projects and I'd still hesitate to call myself an expert
15:21<gparent>did you read a book in two days
15:22<learner>Cromulent, read what i said man
15:22<gparent>I hear it's a prereq
15:22<learner>gparent, i'm 3/th done
15:22<Cromulent>I have a reference manual if that counts :P
15:22<learner>hopefully will finish by the end of the night
15:22<gparent>I hope you dont
15:22<gparent>I want you to remember something
15:22<learner>3/th even
15:23<learner>damn 3/4th lol the 4 keeps not getting entered
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15:23<learner>gparent, i have 15 years of c and cpp experience, so that helps a lot
15:24<gparent>you just shattered my world
15:24<rnowak>10/10, would read again, A+
15:24<gparent>I thought you had 15 years experience being alive
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15:24<learner>gparent, i'm 32 years old lol
15:24<gparent>I admit defeat.
15:24<gparent>I'm barely older than dwfreed.
15:25<gparent>And he's like ... 8
15:25<rnowak>next year
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15:29<Nivex>CentOS 7 has been released:
15:31<charlesed>well that quick
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15:33<learner>The EULA file in the root directory of the .iso images has an incorrect statement saying these images should only be used for testing. The correct updated EULA can be found from /usr/share/centos-release/EULA on the installed system.
15:33<learner>that's really pathetic
15:33<learner>modifying a eula in an iso shoudn't take much effort
15:34<Nivex>shit happens
15:35<learner>now if microsoft had done that, it'd be top of the news
15:35<Cromulent>CentOS my least favourite linux distro
15:36<Nivex>how nice for you
15:37<learner>i like redhat and ubuntu, never really used other distros much, so can't judge the book by the cover, but this mess up is really bad
15:42<Nivex>I'm more annoyed that trying to run the netinstall in a VM and the installer shows no Internet connection. I click on the network and turn it on and it comes up. Now I get to enter the mirror manually
15:42<gparent>yep, compared to microsoft's history of shipping barely workign software, this incorrect line in the EULA is really something
15:45<Cromulent>I have to say Microsoft have got a lot better recently - all the recent software I've bought off them has been pretty darn good (and their cloud services are pretty nifty as well)
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15:48<gparent>I'm still disturbed that Excel can't open two files with the same name.
15:48<learner>gparent, it can
15:49<learner>which version of excel are you using
15:49<gparent>Probably 2010.
15:49<learner>i don't have 2010 anymore but i donno if that was an issue with that either
15:50<gparent>Some guy above just mentioned he had trouble with Excel opening two files with the same name, and he's using 2010.
15:50<learner>well that doesn't necessarily mean it's excel's fault
15:51<rnowak>this is a legendary issue with excel and it will probably persist until this planet is no more
15:52<learner>rnowak, i just tested this, it's not an issue in my version of excel at least
15:53<gparent>yes it is
15:53<rnowak>you tested the wrong thing
15:53<gparent>rnowak: he had my hopes up the problem may have been fixed too :(
15:54<gparent>well, 'design issue'
15:55<rnowak> here's even their 'explanation' for why it is as it is, if it makes you feel better
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15:56<gparent>yeah, figured it had to do with those references
15:56<gparent>At least I'm only stuck with it when I work with a client that uses it (sadly, a lot)
15:56<laser`>Does that page have massive Unicode errors for anyone else?
15:56<gparent>mine are pretty small unicode errors.
15:56<rnowak>well, I don't know about massive, but there are errors
15:57<gparent>probably a limitation due to the macro they used that cross-references excel sheets to generate the documentation.
15:57<rnowak>{'backend': 'excel'}
15:57<learner>the internal workbook name can't be the same, not file name
15:57<learner>it's cause of cell reference calculations
15:58<rnowak>Game Over. Insert coin to try again. (9)
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16:00<learner>yeah that's bad design
16:01<learner>it's easily fixable too, i'm disappointed with the excel devs
16:01<iBotPeaches>The problem will exist as long as humans are dependent on oxygen.
16:02<learner>i don't use excel much these days, mostly used it back in school, even then wasn't a fan
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16:05<learner>it's bugging me, like microsoft's been using uids for ages in their codes, every microsoft workshop i've gone to, they keep talking about using uids for even class modules, why not apply uid to workbooks, that's really stupid!!!
16:06<gparent>probably they want the past 20 years worth of excel documents to work
16:07<learner>that doesn't matter, microsoft did the change with word too, there's doc and docx now
16:07<learner>docx is a different format
16:09<Zigara>learner: how is your web framework adventure going?
16:10<learner>not done with the book yet
16:10<learner>still got like 40 pages left to read
16:10<Zigara>ah, perl?
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16:13<learner>one thing is that perl does a lot of things very differently from what i expected
16:13-!-tschundeee [~tschundee@2a02:908:db50:1780:219c:a6b5:967e:ab4e] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:14<learner>like how declaring packages doesn't create a lexical scope
16:14<learner>the process isn't so OO like cpp
16:15<learner>but i guess that is a useful thing if you use it right
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18:19<HoopyCat>be advised that i could, and will, watch for hours
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18:24<dwfreed>HoopyCat: hah
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18:25<Ikaros>Having way too much fun on the tarmac
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18:34<linbot>New news from forum: Feature request: anycast DNS for Linode's nameservers in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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18:56<chen>hello, what time will i get centos7 on linode?
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18:56<linbot>New news from forum: Feature request: anycast DNS for Linode's nameservers in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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19:20<Typo>anyone of u fellow linodlings own a GoPro?
19:20<Typo>im thinkng about ordering one and it would be nice to talk to someone who actually owned or even used one
19:24<andygraybeal>i want one too
19:27<Karrde>U saw some actual tea partiers in Framingham today
19:27<Karrde>"Impeach Obama, Stop WW3"
19:28<Typo>Im looking at the Hero3 (not +) Silver Edition from costco .. It is the same price as on Amazon but at Costco its called an Action Pack because it has the $35 Frame Mount Accessory (and maybe more) thrown in
19:28<Karrde>at an intersection
19:28<Typo>lol Karrde
19:28<Typo>damn you mike!
19:30<Typo>its a lot of money but i think it would last me a long time and the footage you see from them online can be stunning
19:30<Typo>and I think I seem to be using #linode to talk myself into buying this .. hehehe
19:32<Peng>You're welcome
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19:45<HoopyCat>"The CentOS Project is pleased to announce the immediate availability of CentOS 7 for x86_64, including images for docker, and various cloud providers." ... and somehow, the link to docker yields centos 6.5 built 4 weeks ago
19:45<HoopyCat>gettin' that "oh wow, today's date is 7-7! we should totally release today" vibe
19:46<Nivex>someone commented earlier that there was a typo in the EULA txt. It does seem a tad rushed, yes.
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19:50<sirpengi>that's why I use scientific linux
19:51<HoopyCat>14-7-7 = 0
19:52<HoopyCat>releasing on a 0-day is bad luck
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19:53<ldlework>releasing a 0-day is even worse
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20:47<James>centos7 is out!
20:48<James>seriously, 7-7?
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20:48<James>centos7 is a 0day by design
20:49<munirkn>I have a vps with another host and I want one vps from Linode but I want to use same name servers for both
20:50<James>you can host dns on linode
20:50<HoopyCat>munirkn: for recursive requests (i.e. in /etc/resolv.conf) or for authorative requests (i.e. -> 2001:db8::f00f) ?
20:50<James>i host domains that aren't on my linodes on linode dns
20:51<munirkn>means it is possible on Linode. Great!
20:52<James>munirkn: just point your domains nameserver records to linode
20:53<James>then manage it in the linode manager :)
20:53<munirkn>can u please provide me some guide or link where I can get full details how to achieve this
20:53<sirpengi>munirkn: you can also continue to use your current nameserver
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20:57<munirkn>thank you
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21:12<learner>my mom decided to come and visit me tonight, gf won't be too happy tonight lol
21:14<learner>on another note, i don't like how perl handles the whole utf an latin concat
21:15<learner>too much leniency isn't a good thing
21:16<HoopyCat>con cat, you say?
21:16<learner>HoopyCat, i love your sense of humor
21:18<zifnab>HoopyCat: thats awesome
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21:29<MajObviousman>learner: don't forget to wear a rubber
21:29<zifnab>practice safe sex: go fuck yourself
21:29<zifnab>probably not what he meant
21:29<zifnab>but still sound advice
21:30-!-stickee [] has joined #linode
21:30<learner>well that's a rude comment, not gonna respond to it
21:30<Terabyte>well that escalated quickly
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21:33<MajObviousman>hang on, lemme check my pockets for Fucks
21:34<MajObviousman>nope, looks like I'm out
21:35<learner>i'll just make a note not to talk to him again
21:35<rnowak>what a great loss
21:36<MajObviousman>oh wait, I do have a Fuck!
21:36<MajObviousman>here you go rnowak, I saved it for you
21:36<rnowak>that is so thoughtful
21:36<MajObviousman>it expires in 36 hours
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21:39<Eugene>So how hard do we need to whip heckman for a deployable image
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21:40<@akerl>A deployable what image?
21:41<learner>akerl, i'm guessing centos 7
21:42<MajObviousman>watercolor. I think he means a watercolor image
21:42-!-schmee [] has joined #linode
21:42<MajObviousman>paint it, scan it in, upload it to linode
21:42<Eugene>CentOS 7, x86_64
21:42<@akerl>Eugene: If heckman can somehow still deploy new distros from his new job, he and I need to have some words
21:43<Eugene>Oh, I hadn't known he left.
21:43<Eugene>Shows how much attention I pay. So who do we whio?
21:43<Eugene>whip, even.
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21:43<@akerl>I've been considering replacing CentOS with Arch and seeing who notices
21:43<Eugene>I know ripping out the udev stuff was a pain on the EL7 beta
21:43<@akerl>But yes, we are aware CentOS shipped, and it'll be out when it's ready
21:44<MajObviousman>how long ago did it ship?
21:44<learner>i wonder how much work goes into making a linode deployable image
21:44<Eugene>This afternoon
21:44<MajObviousman>well, there you go
21:44<MajObviousman>that's plenty of time
21:44<Eugene>18:30:23 UTC
21:45<MajObviousman>so a little over 7 hours ago
21:45<@akerl>Had I started doing shots at exactly 18:30:25, I might be approaching a proper level of intoxication to touch a centos installer
21:45<Eugene>The new one is pretty bad.
21:46<MajObviousman>shots? Shots? No, my friend, blue motorcycles
21:46<learner>eugene read the issues list
21:47*MajObviousman wonders if anyone remembers how those are made
21:47<@akerl>I remember they put something tasty inside
21:47<learner>the installer has many problems, and they even did a big mess up with eula
21:47<@akerl>learner: Give it a rest
21:47<MajObviousman>take a load off, compadre
21:48<dcraig>someone read an EULA?
21:48<Eugene>I read the employment contract I signed today!
21:49<Eugene>close enough to even ask a question
21:49<MajObviousman>the one where you can't really talk about it with anyone ever, and it's 100% retroactive?
21:49<@akerl>"What year is it, again?"
21:49<MajObviousman>you have to unsay things you've said to family and friends for the past 3 years
21:49<zifnab>Eugene: when was the last time you had a non-freelance job?
21:49<Eugene>High school
21:49*MajObviousman is in a strange mood tonight
21:49<pronto>All data must be sent over HTTP POST as GET is plaintext and insecure
21:49<zifnab>this should be interesting
21:50<Eugene>And nah, this one is actually a pretty liberal contract. "We own anything you invent during work hours, but only then."
21:50<twiz718>we own everything you invent, everything your children invent and everything your significant other invents.
21:50<zifnab>Eugene: is that not normal?
21:51<twiz718>my company claims to own everything you invent after hours as well.
21:51<zifnab>my contract states they own anything i create on work hardware
21:51<learner>Eugene, is this the lawyer's you're talking about?
21:51*MajObviousman has claimed a Metalsmith's forge!
21:51<dcraig>Eugene, congrats on the new job!
21:51*MajObviousman demands Tin
21:51<Eugene>It's usually "anything tangentially related to work, whenever you think it up"
21:51*MajObviousman demands quartz
21:51<Eugene>And then some.
21:51<dcraig>you invent anything today?
21:51<Eugene>Not a thing! I start tomorrow.
21:52<dcraig>oh ok
21:52<zifnab>so question
21:52<dcraig>good luck
21:52<Eugene>Snarky answer
21:52*MajObviousman demands raw glass (Oh man, you're fucked now)
21:52<zifnab>lets say i do a commit to an open source project at work
21:52<dcraig>what line of work you in?
21:52<zifnab>gpl, at that
21:52<zifnab>who owns it
21:52<Eugene>Work owns it, but they license it to everybody
21:52<zifnab>(i asked our lawyer about that, he said 'huh idk')
21:52<MajObviousman>it's a little murkier than that
21:52<zifnab>gplv3 has a 'no one owns it' clause iirc
21:53<@akerl>Um... what?
21:53<MajObviousman>if you capture an asteroid and start mining it for raw materials, which country do you claim the mineral rights in?
21:53<zifnab>doesn' tit?
21:53<@akerl>zifnab: No?
21:53<@akerl>Since "somebody owns it" is basically the whole idea of copyright
21:53<Eugene>No, GPLv3 definitely does not.
21:53<zifnab>i'm looking
21:53<MajObviousman>no, it doesn't have that clause
21:53<MajObviousman>the copyright is owned by the original coder(s), who have granted a license for you to use it in a certain fashion
21:54<Eugene>It does have "if this is relicensed as non-forward-compatible, then it's automaticelly relicensed back to GPLv3"
21:54<Eugene>Which may be what you're thinking of
21:54<@akerl>GPL: because you didn't want to actually choose a license, did you?
21:54<Eugene>Eg, A releases as GPL, B takes it and claims to be proprietary, C can then automagically make it back to GPL
21:54<@akerl>Eugene: To be fair... that's because B's "licensing" is invalid
21:55<zifnab>i lied, can't own a patent on gpl'd code
21:55<Eugene>Right. The GPL is just making it explicit that B's contribution is auto-licensed as the original
21:55<zifnab>thats what i was thinking
21:55<@akerl>zifnab: Um... what
21:55<Eugene>Yes you can
21:55<learner>akerl, that hasn't stopped apple from trying to own everything
21:55<Eugene>You patent an algorithm, then release that as GPL license
21:55<MajObviousman>zifnab: did you read a different GPL than the rest of us?
21:55<zifnab>Finally, every program is threatened constantly by software patents. States should not allow patents to restrict development and use of software on general-purpose computers, but in those that do, we wish to avoid the special danger that patents applied to a free program could make it effectively proprietary. To prevent this, the GPL assures that patents cannot be used to render the program
21:55<Eugene>I'm a fan of WTFPL, with Apache or BSD as close seconds
21:55<@akerl>zifnab: Yes...
21:55<@akerl>that does not say you can't patent GPL things
21:56<Eugene>You CAN patent the idea, and then make OTHER people unable to take that same idea, because it's GPL released already
21:56<Eugene>But once it's GPL then it's out
21:56<zifnab>that seems...weird
21:56<Eugene>The GPL is a bit like cancer in that regard
21:56<zifnab>'here is the source code, but you can't reproduce it'
21:56<MajObviousman>if you patent GPL code, then you have to then let people use the contents of the patent freely
21:56<zifnab>'beacuse patent'
21:56<MajObviousman>effectively rendering the patent inert and useless
21:56<Eugene>No, it's to keep other people from making it non-GPL and then suing the GPLers
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21:59<learner>i think they shouldn't allow patenting ideas for more than a short few years, then it should go to the public domain
21:59<zifnab>i like CDL
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21:59<@akerl>MIT for life bro
21:59<zifnab>(most of my stuff is MIT)
22:00<Eugene>WTFPL is best PL.
22:00<zifnab>CDL is fun
22:00*MajObviousman has been sticking with CC-BY-NC
22:00<zifnab>10k units distributed, they have to have at least half of their employees listen to the chicken dance song
22:01<zifnab>20k units distributed they must dance to the song, record it, an dsend it to you
22:01<@akerl>MajObviousman: I'm not sold on the non-commercial, pluc CC doesn't exactly recommend their licenses for code
22:01<zifnab>and while distributing it, they can't use the word gazorninplat
22:01<Eugene>AFAIK the CC stuff isn't really written for code
22:01<@akerl>I do CC-BY for my blog posts
22:01<Eugene>For documentation CC-BY is great
22:02<MajObviousman>akerl: I don't produce much code for personal distribution. Almost all of my code is work-owned
22:02<MajObviousman>but I do write a fair amount of stuff
22:02<@akerl>Ah, gotcha
22:03<zifnab>the 'work owns everything' clause scares me
22:03<learner>g2g, gf's calling, see ya guys tomorrow
22:03<@akerl>zifnab: To be fair, not having that cause scares employers
22:03<zifnab>what if you do freelance stuff
22:03<MajObviousman>palmela handerson?
22:03<zifnab>like, lets say i write an android app and make millions
22:04<zifnab>because i work for them, they can state 'i own that product, you now owe me $4,000,000'
22:04<dcraig>learner, you gotta learn to hold your own
22:04<@akerl>zifnab: Their fear is that you come to work, learn a bunch of stuff on their dime, crank out your android app on their servers, and then make millions
22:04<Eugene>That's why the contract specifies "on their hardware and/or time", usually
22:04<zifnab>thats why our 'we own anything you do on company owned hardware' clause works well
22:05<@akerl>Eugene: Yup
22:05<@akerl>zifnab: Most such clauses do limit on things like that. ~"We own things you do on our time, or with our equipment"
22:06<MajObviousman>if you bring your own hardware to work on, that becomes much murkier
22:06-!-shingshang [] has joined #linode
22:06<@akerl>Which is why that's a murky idea to begin with
22:06<MajObviousman>so like if you're a contractor
22:06<zifnab>i do a lot at work with my phone
22:06<zifnab>they said the 'on work time' part covered it
22:06<@akerl>zifnab: Yes...
22:06<MajObviousman>think of it like this: Are you keeping things separate enough that a jury of 12 idiots^Wpeers would understand that what you're doing is Not Work?
22:06<@akerl>the "at work" bit of that is why
22:07<zifnab>i'm actually looking at icinga2 configs from home atm
22:07<MajObviousman>so, if there's any doubt, then do your work stuff on work equipment during work time, and do your personal stuff on entirely different equipment
22:07<zifnab>not on work time or work hardware
22:07<dcraig>if you don't clock in and out, what's work time?
22:07<zifnab>woo salary
22:07<MajObviousman>a valid point
22:08<MajObviousman>and one I don't know how to prove when I'm "not working"
22:08*Eugene will be clocking in/out \o/
22:08<zifnab>'time spent in work building'
22:08<MajObviousman>other than "my laptop lid is close"
22:08<Eugene>(oh god that's miserable i haven't done this since HS)
22:08<MajObviousman>it's even murkier for me, since I work from home
22:08<zifnab>which also doesn't work, because i do probably 30% of my work from home
22:08<MajObviousman>we don't even have an office
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22:09<dcraig>you really need a work brain and a home brain
22:09<dcraig>and you switch brains as needed
22:09<zifnab>whats really amusing: i asked if i was required to hav ea computer at home, or internet, or a phone
22:09<zifnab>they said no
22:09<zifnab>so i spent about 2 weeks ignoring my phone ringing from work, not doing work at home
22:09<zifnab>...that went over well, managed to get a raise to cover cell phone bill after that
22:10<MajObviousman>a "raise"
22:10<MajObviousman>ITYM stipend
22:10<zifnab>a little over a year later, making 14k more
22:11<@akerl>zifnab: They bought your house from you :P
22:11<dcraig>my work gave me a laptop and a crappy phone, so I guess I have no excuse
22:11<zifnab>that was the reasoning for not buying me a new computer for home, i have a work laptop
22:11<zifnab>i really tried
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22:13<kyhwana>w 13
22:14*dcraig tickles kyhwana around a bit with a large burma danio
22:14*MajObviousman identifies yet another irssi user
22:14<dcraig>if the "w 13" didn't give it away, the "hrghgh" certainly did
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23:52<linuxthefish>hi, does linode have CentOS 7?
23:53-!-steveg [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:54<zifnab>'no' 'soon' 'they are working on it'
23:56<linuxthefish>oh ok, cheers
23:56<linuxthefish>why is CPU on linode not so good? :(
23:56<linuxthefish>i get very low unixbench even on high plans
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23:59<ryanc>when will centos 7 be available for use on linode
23:59<linuxthefish>05:54 < zifnab> 'no' 'soon' 'they are working on it'
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 08 00:00:40 2014